Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Market like a Fintech is a podcast by Mint Studios and the Fintech Marketing Hub, on a mission to find out what marketing strategies and tactics the top fintech companies in the industry use to acquire real customers, build a brand and grow revenue.
Intro: It is true that
marketing can often oversell.
Ultimately, the role of marketing
is to grow the business.
So sometimes it's easy to get into like
a promotional selling mode, and when so
many companies promise the world, the
effect on customers can be deadening.
And it's why something that
really stands out nowadays is
when a company speaks truthfully.
And I think that's why we're seeing
so many of these brands pop up, like
Oatley, liquid Death and, and Duolingo.
in today's episode, I'm talking to
someone who does this, but in the B2B
sector, Charlie Gilbert, head of Brand and
Communications at Vault, as we discuss,
it's especially crucial to speak honestly
in their sector because not only is a
topic complex, but they also have to
think of their customer's, customers.
These are everyday people who
are using open banking and are
maybe not familiar with them.
Charlie has a background as a journalist
and copywriter having worked for
companies like Jellyfish and Snack Media.
He's been doing marketing for Volt
for over four years and helped manage
a brand refresh as well as turn their
marketing into what it is today.
For those of you who don't know Volt,
they are a series B company, open banking
infrastructure platform, founded in 2019
and currently operating in 33 countries.
In this episode, we talk about why
truth telling is an essential quality
to their content, how they manage to
create content for their customers
and their customers customers.
Why they focus on organic more than paid.
How bringing PR in-house helped
bring in leads and why brand
recall is a primary goal of their
content strategy and a lot more.
We go into a lot of great details in
this episode, so hope you enjoy it.
Araminta Robertson: okay.
So the first kind of question that I have
for you is just through my own research.
I saw that you used to be a news
correspondent and you were kind of in
that world of media and everything.
So I'm curious about what do you think
you learned during your time in the.
World of journalism.
And how do you think that
applies to FinTech marketing?
'cause obviously those
worlds overlap a lot.
as in, there's a lot of
common skills and all that.
So how do you think that was
useful to, where you're at now?
Charlie Gilbert: Great question.
I think I wouldn't attach too
much importance to the title of
news correspondent because the
company I was working for had
a product called Direct News.
And then if you worked on that product,
you were called a correspondent.
But we were set up to be
news correspondence in a way.
It was always done through a kind
of brand marketing lens, however,
but that was my kind of first foray.
Into a career job having
done a journalism degree.
So I brought that skillset from
three years at city University
in London, to that role.
And I think that journalist
skillset is really important.
There's an element of tragedy here
because I think in my heart and the kind
of romantic side of my brain would've
liked to have become a journalist,
but the starting salaries were kind of
somewhat prohibitive to staying in London.
And also it's to an extent it's a,
it's an industry where you kind of
rely on contacts to get your feet
in the door and then gradually walk
upstairs, which unfortunately as
someone who went to a comprehensive
school in a kind of forgotten
town, I didn't have those contacts.
However, what I did learn was
some really good skills and how.
They are relevant to FinTech marketing
is kind of pretty much like nailed on.
You can measure the impact of those
skills fundamentally, I think it's
being able to ask the right questions
to the right people and know how
to extract the right answers.
I remember vividly in the second year of
university we had a how to do an interview
module where they brought people in.
From different organizations
who were deliberately briefed
to be quite difficult.
We had to interview them in front of
the class of like 25 or 30 people.
And it was really challenging
but also quite enjoyable in
the world of FinTech marketing.
And I've spoken about this.
Before, but there's a lot of kind of
dense descriptions or hyperbolic taglines.
It's difficult cutting through the noise.
This is something that people talk, this
is always the cliche in itself, right?
How to kind of cut through the noise.
But how a journalist skill set can kind
of do that is by speaking in kind of
clear plain English where possible,
albeit with a brown tone of voice too.
Bring capabilities to life, bring
a brand to life, and therefore,
hopefully a position in the market
that is relevant and tangible to
a predefined relevant audience.
And that's something I
think at Volt we've had.
A decent amount of success with we
look at some other competitors and
it can be, I mean, some do a great,
our biggest competitor do a great
job of very clearly explaining who
they are, but other competitors.
And it's normally when your product
set gets bigger and your capabilities
get wider, it becomes harder to
be known for one or two things.
You're kind of just a
leader in this space.
So, yeah, we've had real success kind
of translating what we do into plain
English with that ground tone of voice.
And I think.
As a result, we are now seen
as a leader in our space, paid
by a bank, real time payments.
So yeah, I would say that the journalist
mindset has been important in that
journey over the last four years.
Araminta Robertson: I think like
a lot of marketers and especially
writers, I would say deep inside
the dream was to be a journalist.
'Cause it's kind of what I always
loved was investigative part of things.
So like going out, finding a story,
trying to investigate and I feel like.
Marketers.
That's often our job actually
is, attribution is a job of
investigating and figuring out
things and trying to understand, wow
this deal came in, it's enormous.
What was that journey like?
And trying to put together those like
little touch points and everything.
So I think it makes sense that
there's kind of a connection
there in a lot of marketers.
Charlie Gilbert: Completely.
I mean the, investigative but yeah,
it's really important and I think that
becomes part of a company culture, right?
The kind of, I always think that
when you have cultures and valleys
a big or behaviors, a big behavior
should be ask why a project
accelerates and comes out of nowhere.
It sounds really cool,
but why are we doing it?
And it's not because you're a
naysayer, it's because you're
trying to understand the viability.
Is there kind of, a commercial
imperative attached.
Will this selfishly reflect into
good marketing communications?
And then I think that's also
holding people to account, right?
Everyone has a particular skill set by
asking why and coming at that question
from a particular area of expertise, it
holds leadership functions to account,
which I think is quite important if
you're able to ask why and investigate
why we're launching this product
or why we're building this product,
for what market, for what vertical?
Who does the customer look like?
What are we up against?
This is part of that kind of
investigative Yes, we did it.
Mindset.
I think it's, you're right.
It's really important.
Araminta Robertson: There's also a
deep like for me, what I love about
marketing is just understanding people,
the psychological side of things.
And I think journalists as well,
they love understanding people.
That's why they write
stories about them and stuff.
So yeah, lots of.
Overlaying
absolutely.
Yeah.
curiosities there.
So, one of the main kind of topics
we wanna talk about in this, podcast
episode case study is content in general.
So how you've said yourself, you're
one of the leaders in your space,
marketing is a key part of that.
I wouldn't just say from a
product perspective, but also
from a branding perspective.
What role does content play
in Volt's marketing strategy?
And we'll talk a bit about
the whole B two, B2C kind of
thing in a second, but yeah.
How would you say the role of
content plays in your marketing?
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, I say content's
pretty important to what we do.
You can always kind of.
Look at what the situation
would be for Volt.
If we didn't have content, it'd be,
nothing would be a, nobody, the brand
would effectively cease to exist.
But yeah, content for us is what
kind of sets us apart in the market.
We've got a very, clear way, hopefully
in a very individual way of articulating
what we do through our content.
And I'm a huge believer
in kind of substance over.
Style.
The in fact style guide was pretty much
the first thing that I created when I came
to VO because I wanted to get it done get
everybody bought into it and then dusted.
So it's just something
referred to occasionally.
We evolve it when we need to.
But it was that kind of foundational
thing that gave us kind of practical
style points to follow in our writing,
in our content and a specific tone
of voice that was not prescriptive,
but something to hopefully aspire to.
'cause we thought it was
kind of bang on the money.
So from that, it's all substance now.
Right?
And we are big believers here in, in
storytelling, again, like another,
perhaps marketing cliche, but e even
this morning had a call with our CEO
and it's always about the storytelling.
And this isn't necessarily kind of.
This product does this.
We think it will be brilliant for this.
Arguably that's a story, but
it's not a very interesting one.
So we always try to bring use cases and
relevancy to our different audiences.
Again, another kind of cornerstone
of any content strategy is
who are you writing for?
Who are you creating content for?
And for us it's quite.
An interesting kind of varied
group of people merchants,
prospective merchants end users.
We're B2B to see brand, and quite
often consumers get forgotten.
Investors journalists.
Prospective employees.
There's a really kind
of interesting analyst.
There's a really kind of,
varied kind of use case here.
So we have to tell relevant
stories to engage all of them.
'cause this all then feeds back into
the strength of the Volt brand and
how we're perceived in the market.
And content is also something that
helps us evolve our kind of positioning.
We don't remain static.
If you are, I dunno why this
brand has popped into my . Head.
It has, we'll roll with it.
WH Smith, which I think
is now rebranded, right?
They're that shop.
Yeah.
TI, I can't remember
the name, but I saw it.
It's something like TG
Thompson or something
Very similar W Smith.
But that, that's the place where you
go to buy pens or notepads or spend
four 50 on a bottle of water, right?
There's no real moving with the times.
But that's their brand perception.
They've done okay with it.
Volt can't afford to ever rest
on its laurels 'cause FinTech is
evolving incredibly quickly to kind
of go down a level or deeper level.
Payments is evolving kind of even
faster than the FinTech landscape
with the advent of stable coins, for
example, but where content also has to.
Have a role is the kind of
these wider macro trends.
When I just mentioned stable
coins, for example, is again, kind
of trying to make sense of them.
We saw this in kind of no uncertain terms
with open banking in 2018 and PSD two.
There was an incredible amount of hype
there around what it will facilitate.
The different use cases had a lot of
conversation about how it would work.
There was very little conversation
around the commercial viability of a
FinTech coming in and building some
kind of open banking infrastructure
for merchants there to tap into
and consumers there to tap into.
So we've always tried to maybe
this is me going full circle, talk
with substance and granularity.
Around those use cases.
And in doing so kind of
entrench the viability of the
infrastructure that we exist in.
And stable coins is another kind of
interesting thing where obviously lots
of payments companies are looking at
it, but how do we actually avoid the
hype or inflate the hype even more?
How can if Volt for example created
a stable coin product and there are
kind of potentially a few different
avenues we could in theory explore here.
What's the commercial viability of it?
Beyond the hype, and this is where content
I think has a massive role to play.
So every product we release is a story
attached to it with a practical use case,
a merchant benefit, but it also has to
be commercially viable for us, right?
We don't do these things
just 'cause they look good.
We have to be a sustainably growing,
ultimately profitable FinTech, and
that's where brand positioning kind of.
It helps, but also there has to be
truth and substance in that in the end.
But I mean, this is all I've really
spoken about so far is just the
kind of the product content, right?
There's so much more that we do the
kind of platforming of our leaders.
Araminta Robertson: I'd be also
curious, like, what kind of
content are you talking about here?
Is this like reports?
Is this like, I don't
know, social media posts?
What, when you're talking about all
this, what is, what does that look like?
What kind of
Charlie Gilbert: I mean, yeah, so
primarily, our two most successful
content types are medium to
long form blog posts and videos.
Videos are kind of huge for us.
We are big fans of a product explainer
video at Volt, quite a few of the ones
that we've done have gone down quite well.
Araminta Robertson: Could
you expand a bit on that?
What were they, which products
were they and what do you think?
Why do you think they resonated so well?
Charlie Gilbert: So paid
two in Australia system.
Araminta Robertson: yes.
I've written pieces about that.
Charlie Gilbert: so, so kind of, yeah.
Set up by the new payments platform
which was, yeah, a group of kind of
industry stakeholders, including banks.
I think Europe and the UK could learn a
lot from that to create this, your set
of kind of accounts, account rails, but.
But actually there was a degree of kind of
negativity around how this could actually
be taken to market by an ambitious
FinTech and then for everybody to benefit
in terms of, commercial viability,
user experience, et cetera, et cetera.
And also it wasn't necessarily clear
kind of which industries pay two was
particularly relevant for it's airlines.
Is a really interesting one because.
Polly, another instant payment system
kind of disappeared suddenly in 2023.
Airlines in Australia are obliged to
offer a payment method that doesn't
have a surcharging thing, which is a big
problem there with credit and debit cards.
Anyway, we created a pay to explain
the video, just kind of showing what
to expect really from the product.
So kind of profiling the UX
and the payment flow and then.
Making it absolutely crystal clear.
And within that kind of explaining
the benefits to merchant should they
choose to integrate, pay to with Volt,
and then kind of alluding to which
verticals this would be relevant for.
And yeah, very quickly everybody's
favorite FinTech influencer, myself and
I used shared it on is LinkedIn and said.
I don't wanna misquote him.
I gonna try and remember as best as
I possibly can, but this is the best
pay to explain a video I've seen.
So that's great.
People then use it as a resource as well.
and then in terms of, longer form
content, we had real success with a
piece I wrote, which was along the lines
of how is open banking being rolled
out across the world, open banking.
As a zeitgeisty term has, a huge
amount of interest, but it means
different things to different people.
Even in the uk, open banking with
a capital O and A capital B is
essentially how open banking has
been implemented, kind of as a scheme
with a lowercase O and a lowercase B.
It kind of broadly pertains to
what open banking actually is.
Permissive access to your bank account
to a third party in order for that
third party to provide a service.
Obviously different countries are rolling
it out in different ways, and I've spent
maybe two weeks kind of researching
the kind of global picture on open
banking and we published that without
any kind of like lead generational
kind of marketing cynicism attached.
It was just, we know this
piece will help people,
uh, Understand the landscape and hopefully
they'll remember us on the back of it.
It was never intended to be.
A lead magnet for us, it was
almost an altruistic gesture.
This is me thinking with a kind
of brand marketing lens rather
than a demand gen lens, I suppose.
Yeah, listeners can debate whether
that's a good or bad thing.
That's maybe a
Araminta Robertson: clearly it
Charlie Gilbert: episode.
Yeah.
I think, well, a real market of
success then is, I'm a massive bl
I've spoken about this before is kind
of anecdotal evidence and feedback.
Payments is a small industry.
we don't have competitors per se.
We have kind of frenemies.
We're friends with the people
that are our competitors and we all
know each other, and they were sharing
this amongst their kind of internal
Slack channels and WhatsApp works.
When I saw that three or four
times, I thought, okay, well
this is now something that.
That is being used as a resource.
And as long as it's not
plagiarized, it's great.
And creating content like this now is
even more important with the advent
of chat GPT, which has kind of really
accelerated since I wrote that piece.
But this is the kind of content
that chat GPT relies on, right?
For kind of source material in order to
help other people searching for similar
things if they don't find this themselves.
So I'm also trying.
My own video content on LinkedIn,
which is very different to anything
Araminta Robertson: They're so funny.
Charlie Gilbert: kind of whole branded
Araminta Robertson: You must
have so much fun creating them.
They look like a lot of fun.
Charlie Gilbert: yeah, I mean,
Araminta Robertson: Although they
may, they must take so long to edit.
I don't know how.
Charlie Gilbert: I, my role is
if they take long to edit, then
it's not really gonna work.
'cause it has to be like snappy and,
yeah.
So I've, yeah, I'm in a
bit of a tricky spot now.
I've kind of run out of ideas.
Yeah.
I always wanted to do one on stable coin,
so when I did that, I was, I felt happy.
But that was about a month ago now,
so it's about time that I came up with
something else, but that's, I dunno
if it's just my massive sense of self
worth and self importance now coming
out, maybe I'm developing an ego.
I really hope I'm not, I hope
people can keep me in check.
But yeah, money 2020, I had
people coming out to me, he who
had recognized those videos and.
I've spoken about 'em and that, that for
my own ego, that felt good because it's
content that resonates.
Right.
It's just
Araminta Robertson: I mean, are
you doing it with a purpose or
is it more like, this is fun,
Charlie Gilbert: I did it with
a real purpose to start with.
Yeah.
Because Martin Lewis money saving expert
here in the uk is a great kind of consumer
advocate on all things personal finance.
He tweeted about pay by bank as being
something perhaps to be wary of, and
Araminta Robertson: I know.
I think I saw this.
Yeah.
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah that to me
didn't really paint the full picture.
And there was a bit of kind of skepticism
around consumer protection, I think.
I don't wanna misquote him, but I
think he said there was no consumer
protection, which is completely untrue
in regards to the Consumer Rights Act
and the payment services regulation.
So I just wanted to create a
lighthearted video in response to that.
And that's when I thought actually
there's, there may be something
in this to kind of demystify.
Or challenge preconceptions
around pay by bank.
But it's also a good way to
kind of use content to look at
what those misconceptions are.
And this why Volt as a brand, I know
it was me, did it, but Volt as a brand
has a kind of role to play, right?
We know our stuff here and we can
help consumers as well as merchants
kind of conquer and overcome those
misconceptions by truth telling.
And this is the most important thing in
content and FinTech is truth telling.
No kind of hyperbole, no exaggeration,
no kind of aspirational, big vision
stuff unless we're talking to investors
and we can prove everything, everyday,
content, truth telling, valuable.
And then hopefully that translates
to us being taken seriously
as a brand by our customers.
Araminta Robertson: It sounds
like influencers have had a role
in kind of getting your content
to reach the right people.
So you said Marshall Vanous,
I guess you're kind of
becoming one with your videos.
Speaker 8: Definitely not.
Definitely not.
Araminta Robertson: I don't know.
What, when you create
content, do you have.
Channels in mind?
Are you actively targeting influencers?
What have you seen are the channels
that work best when reaching merchants?
Because I think merchants are
such a diverse group as well.
You've got, I game, you've got
crypto, you've got e-commerce.
These people can be either very
tech savvy or maybe they're
completely on the other end.
Like it's such a different, such
a wide kind of habits, consumer
habits, or consuming content habits.
So yeah, how do you think about that?
Charlie Gilbert: LinkedIn
is kind of by far
and away.
The best channel for us.
LinkedIn almost makes it easy because
the dearth of kind of original engaging
content on a platform that is so, so
well used daily by all of the kind
of key players in the ecosystem.
All of our prospects and customers,
everyone's on it multiple times a day,
but there's no great content on it.
So it's like the opposite of TikTok
or Instagram in that respect, which
has a lot of great content, but
that's not where our audience lives.
So, why wouldn't we spend all of
our time on LinkedIn creating stuff
that's different that cuts through?
Because we know that's
where everybody lives.
So it, it's almost a gift
to us in how it's set up.
I think LinkedIn still
doesn't really know.
What it actually is or
what purpose it serves.
I think maybe no one really
knows the answer to that.
But while that remains a talking point
and point of uncertainty, it's something
that gives us an opportunity to do
stuff a little bit differently and
hopefully get noticed along the way.
Araminta Robertson: And when
you say you make the most of
LinkedIn, what does that look like?
Is that like obviously you're
posting, do you have people.
On your team, like, I don't know
the founders or the C-Suite who are
also posting, is it LinkedIn ads?
Like how are you trying
to make the most of the
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, I mean, I'm
a massive believer in kind of the
maximizing, optimizing organic media.
Paid media for me has
never really done it.
Kind of slight lack of, uh.
sincerity here.
I kind of wanna tell you a funny story
about a paid media opportunity sponsoring
opportunity that came with us recently.
Maybe I'll say it if anyone wants
to know, find me on LinkedIn.
I message you.
It's funny.
Araminta Robertson: Wait, why?
Why don't you share the story?
Are you worried it will be misinterpreted?
Charlie Gilbert: I mean, it's
not really content per se,
but it's a paid opportunity.
Where a very kind of well thought
of highly regarded payments
event, which, I'm personally a
really big fan of great event.
Is happening kind of relatively sued.
We've got a merchant who, a great
merchant that we're live with in a
great vertical who are really happy
with us and they're gonna be talking
on stage about their Volt integration
kind of how
it's improved kind of conversion
share of wallet with open banking.
Like, great really cool.
We got offered the chance
to sponsor the session.
It's like a, it's basically the open
banking session during this event.
And I kind of took the call.
I was like, yeah, okay, I can
see where you want us to sponsor
because they'd be talking about us.
And then, I couldn't really remove
the thought from my mind that actually
we shouldn't sponsor it because it
would look like we've compromised.
Kind of, yeah, editorial
integrity of the session.
And then they were like, well,
if you don't sponsor it, then
one of your competitors will.
And I was like, well, that to
me would be objectively funny.
Gorilla Marketing and that a
competitor sponsors a session where
the merchant talks happily and
freely about Volt's integration.
So this is why I'm always kind of
skeptical of kind of paid opportunities,
but it is really a point of integrity
also everybody claims to have
access to all their leading decision
makers, blah, blah, blah, blah.
LinkedIn does that anyway.
If you have the right content,
you reach the right audience.
Anyway.
We do some A BM campaigns
or we target kind of.
Specific roles and specific accounts
that have something that they need to do.
There's something kind of topical
in the industry, and that's
where kind of paid ads or paid
campaigns come in really handy.
But they're incredibly tactical and
incredibly topical and incredibly focused.
Would never do like a paid kind
of brand marketing campaign
It's everything.
It's all about revenue really.
With BM stuff.
Araminta Robertson: And so
what did you do in the end?
Did you sponsor the,
Charlie Gilbert: we did not
sponsor it and, uh, It's yet to happen.
This event we found today
on the the 1st of August, but it
will be happening relatively soon.
So, yeah, we'll have to see,
Araminta Robertson: very interesting.
I think I, I agree with you, right.
It makes a lot of sense.
Integrity, from an integrity standpoint,
and I think like consumers or
buyers are more skeptical than ever.
Like we are all so much more skeptical
because I think because marketing has
been in our face for so many decades now.
We just don't believe so many things,
and so like you just listen, you
know, you just talk to your friends or
whatever, or even anyone in the industry
and it's constantly like, really?
Is that actually what you're saying?
This?
So,
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah.
Yeah.
It's how people consume
content as well, right?
That this is another really
big thing that's changed.
Why?
If you're presented with something that,
the author or the publisher has paid for.
Why would they assume that
you are duty bound to read it?
Why would you be interested in reading it?
Even kind of just organic
stuff on LinkedIn.
People scroll now, right?
Scrolling is not a bad thing per se, but
this is how we can achieve stuff now.
So it's Marcus of relevancy
and recommendation, right?
So someone likes something that you
trust and like, or share something,
of course you're gonna read it or of
course you're gonna watch it because
it's had that validation already up
front from someone that's seen it.
And this is, there's
debates around kind of.
Algorithms and, certain ethics, I suppose
it's attached to that, but surely from
a content consumption point of view it
helps massively in terms of engagement.
If someone's validated it upfront,
then yeah, you're gonna read it or
some it's been shared with you or
like you're gonna read it or watch it.
It's, that's just the way it kind
of taps into human psychology now.
It's very different.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah, exactly.
So I'd love to talk a bit about like
strategy we've talked a bit about it.
Interestingly, organic is, it sounds like,
is the main thing here, super important.
How do you put together a strategy
in terms of what kind of content
to create, what topics to cover?
And also we could talk a bit about
the whole B two, B2C and how obviously
you have to create content for
merchants, but also for end customers.
And I'm very interested in how you
do that and how you think about,
'cause content for consumers is so
different than merchants as well.
Charlie Gilbert: So content strategy
is, is dependent on kind of two things.
One is kind of brand recall, I suppose.
So.
When someone says open banking or
pay by bank, we want Volt to be
the brand that pops into their head
that they recall in their memory.
So that to me is kind
of massively important.
The other way more kind of boring
point is resource and what is
kind of practically possible on,
on any given day, week, or month.
For me it's all about looking at the
state of play within the ecosystem
that we find ourselves in, which
is real time account payments.
Or pay by bank.
So kind of two things there, like what
are the zeitgeisty things in terms of
talking points is pay by bank safe?
When will commercial VRPs be a reality?
Why don't consumers use it
versus cards, all the things
that people are talking about.
How can Volt have a point of view
and answers to these questions
based on how far we've come and
the data and the proof points?
And if there are things that do need more
work, then how can we talk about that in
a way that facilitates kind of meaningful
collaboration with the industry?
So this is where PR comes in
really handy industry comment.
And truth telling as well as kind
of certain helpful blog posts
that play into merchant questions.
Again, how safe is paid by bank?
Does open banking, facilitate refunds?
All of these things.
And then the other side of
the kind of content strategy.
Piece that plays into this kind of
brand recall goal, I suppose, is our
kind of evolving capabilities and what
we are launching and why, and in which
markets, and this is where use cases and
stories real and kind of hypothetical.
Come in really handy.
So, I speak to a lot of our merchants
about how they're using vog.
What they need kind of going forward,
what time with our product team
on what we're creating, what we're
building and why our market presence.
So it's almost kind of market
reach and product depth, I
suppose, and how those kind of
facilitate different content types.
And then from that we've got a
calendar of really cool stuff.
We've got a really good runway and I think
in the next six months it's probably.
The most exciting periods in Volt's
kind of content marketing history,
which is, I don't say lightly.
We've got so many cool stories
to start telling, and I'm
mega, mega excited about that.
So, yeah, that's in a nutshell, kind of
how I, how I approach, content strategy.
Araminta Robertson: And when it comes
to like the end consumer, how do you get
the content in front of them or, or is
it not even supposed to or you just give
it to the merchant and you're like, use
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, I mean one of the
first things I did when I joined Volt,
four years ago was create a pay with Volt
page, which was a consumer facing page.
And I've had people who have even,
it was difficult getting approval
for that because, our leadership
team always believed that we would.
B2B, and we are, that's who we sell to.
But if consumers don't choose
our product at checkout, then we
don't really make as much revenue.
Like,
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Charlie Gilbert: so we need, consumers
to buy in to Volt or buy into PayPal bank
whatever it ends up being at checkout.
So having that kind of central resource
that we can point people to, because
this is a question that, merchants
quite often ask is, well, why?
I have this with, We might sell
an integration and then that
goes ahead, everybody's happy.
And then if it's a larger enterprise
merchant, they'll normally have a
marketing or branding team or a product
team who would then want to speak to me.
And the first question I tend to get
is, why would our customers use fault?
And it's a question that ideally
should have been had before but hadn't.
'cause of this kind of B2B
psychology type question
kind of dominates and then it
kind of comes back to me to.
To talk about it quite often,
they want us to fund a campaign
and they want to extract money.
So they deliberately
try to sound negative.
Araminta Robertson: Oh
Charlie Gilbert: Not negative,
just kind of they're commercial
savvy marketing departments.
Right.
Which actually I've got
a lot of respect for.
But it's us having answers
to these questions.
So having kind of, yeah, I can have
a verbal response to that, but then
also having resources on our blog.
So we do have,
Kind of consumer facing
pieces there around safety.
We kind of have, in our documentation,
we have kind of tips and tricks for
optimizing conversion and actual kind
of share of wallet through kind of like
different kind of small brand assets,
like little tool tips that pop out kind
of interstitial explainer pages that
can be built into the checkout journey.
So, yeah, we've also kind of
commissioned research into.
The terminology, even colors
and icons that consumers in
different markets respond to.
It's probably one of our biggest
challenges is, optimizing our paper
bank solution in different markets.
Even that terminology, means different
things in different jurisdictions.
Paper bank in Germany, as far as I
understand, is more kind of, instantly
relevant to kind of paying your
utilities bills rather than initiating
a, an e-commerce purchase or a.
A kind of wallet top of whatever it is.
So we've had to kind of dial into that
kind of consumer psychology as well.
And then, around the other market nuances
of, well, which markets are dominated by
cards, how it's gonna be harder for us to.
Okay.
Araminta Robertson: behaviors.
Charlie Gilbert: Exactly.
Yeah.
And the Netherlands is different.
'cause ideal is a payment method, is so
prevalent and so dominant at checkout.
For us, is that a good thing because
it's an account to account system
that people are used to using?
Or is it a bad thing because
everyone's just gonna go to ideal.
So these are the things that we're
kind of testing and researching
and optimizing as we go on.
So,
Speaker 8: yeah.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah,
that's a fun part of the kind
of psychology side of things.
If you're really into that,
then really understanding what
makes someone pick one option.
I mean, I notice it now whenever,
obviously, 'cause I'm using PayPal bank
and I remember the first time I saw open
banking was a couple of years ago to
pay my taxes and I was like, oh, I paid
my, and I was telling all my friends and
my partner, they're like, no one cares.
Like this is so,
Charlie Gilbert: Well, you know.
Araminta Robertson: working in FinTech.
Charlie Gilbert: That's the thing, right?
No one cares about open
banking as as a thing.
If you're a consumer, open banking is
irrelevant and it should be irrelevant.
It's just the thing that empowers
the cool thing that you've done.
My wife uses the Emma app to
kind of manage finances and she
loves the Emma app, but she would
never say, I love open banking.
there's a Financial Times article
recently, which was very misleadingly
framed around the London FinTech
scene, but actually it was just,
a massive critique of open banking
and how it's failed and saying
that consumers aren't aware three,
whatever it was, three quarters of
consumers in the UK aren't aware of.
Open banking is a completely
moot
They don't need to.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
It's stuff like Yeah, exactly.
Paying your tax return bill more easily.
'cause you can just be
redirected to your bank account.
'cause that's how you have to pay.
You can't use a credit card Right.
In that situation.
So, yeah, exactly.
You know, You lost your driving license.
Need to renew it.
You can do it now with.
With checkout from your bank,
you pay your credit card bill.
It's all open banking,
but it's not a term that
consumers
Araminta Robertson: They need
to know.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
One, one final topic.
I'd love, to cover, because this is
obviously, I mean, it's getting more
and more complex because of AI and
chat GPT, but also just generally which
is, tracking results or like reporting
on what's working or what isn't.
And I just think in general, from
marketing to work, you need to
be able to understand a little
bit what's working, what isn't.
So how do you think about that?
How do you try and report
on how content is working?
Or are you a lot more like.
Just trust the process.
We know How do you manage
that side of things?
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, weirdly,
I probably shouldn't admit this,
but I always find this a difficult
question to ask because of the
amount of variables attached, right?
So like from, it's from like an SEO
perspective and visibility in how someone
who lands on our website organically,
how then a user journey is facilitated.
Really, we are a relatively
small company compared to our
players, so we have to trade on.
Kind of brand related search terms.
If it's very difficult for us to break
into kind of non-branded search terms,
especially now I genuinely cannot
remember the last time I clicked through
to a webpage from a Google search.
'cause I rely on Gemini and chat GPT
for, I mean, in, in all seriousness,
around a hundred percent now of such.
And if I, if
don't need to click through,
I'm using an app, I'm using the
pop or eBay, whatever it is.
So we're kind of having
to reflect that as well.
Volt is also an ambiguous brand online.
There are a few different
Volts doing different things.
There was a Neobank in
Australia called Volt.
We got tagged when they went under.
So as long as we've got, we do
measure things like in PR especially
is kind of much easier to measure
and I'm a big believer in.
Commercializing the PR function
by talking about use cases, how
they've helped particular merchants.
And we've actually, since bringing the
PR function inhouse, this is another
podcast episode, 'cause I can talk
about this for ages, but we got rid
of PR agencies, goodbye PR agencies.
Thank you for your hard work.
But we brought 'em in house and in
controlling the narrative we now generate
good leads, like four or five leads
from each press release that we put out.
We never did that before.
Araminta Robertson: Wow.
Wait, so we need to expand a bit on
this 'cause this is very interesting.
I have rarely heard of FinTech
companies bringing PR in-house
like at an earlier stage.
So what was your thinking behind that?
I mean, you said narrative, but
why did you make that decision?
And then how that's so interesting.
How are you able to connect
that you're bringing leads
to from these press releases?
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, so we
kind of, I say we, me here is I'm
exposed to the goings on here and.
What people care about, what they
are worried about, the things they're
doing to kind of celebrate or overcome.
Those two things You can probably tell at
any one moment, I've got a million things
flying into my own head and from that
there are so many good talking points that
Me kind of outsourcing that to an
agency is just never gonna work.
So I'd be like, well, what
do you think came out today?
And then suddenly you'll have a meet.
I don't want to bad mouth agencies,
but then we'd have a weekly meeting
with five people and me talking about
things they've pitched they're waiting
to hear back from the journalist.
It just wasn't working.
And then they'd write a press
release and it It would be, yes,
optimized for journalists, but it
would be completely missing the
nuance and the intrigue that should
be contained within a press release.
And my God, there are enough bad press
releases right in, in financial services.
So we just thought, well, you know what?
Let's just bring it on in house.
Let's just, let's use a tool where
we can target journalists, build out
media lists as we have an effective
kind of distribution mechanism.
And then the copywriting
of the press release.
I do it myself.
And from doing that, and when we publish
it again, this is the beauty of LinkedIn.
When we publish them to LinkedIn,
we get messages to the Volt account,
genuinely hand on heart, three or
four per press release saying, we are
competitor of X, please give us a demo.
And this is now a theme.
It is not a one-off.
It's happened three or four times.
so it is a big win for us
commercializing the PR function.
And not in a cynical way, in a way that
actually helps similar companies with you.
You can benefit from the products
that we're talking about.
'cause we're not just releasing a
product, we're talking about how it's
being used and why we created it.
So it has real relevance.
So this is where it's
interesting, getting results.
I've also.
Massively reduced our marketing
budget over the last six or so months.
And , in terms of tools and the paid
media thing that we touched on earlier
and our number of leads through the
website, which is at the moment really
it's all I really care about is how many
high quality leads are coming in through
the website plus via up PR channels.
And, that has maintained
a kind of a steady rate.
And It's always reflective of kind of
where we are as a business, how loud we
are, but that has maintained the level
that we need it to be at while also
getting rid of all the stuff that I think
a lot of high growth FinTech brands think
they need.
But this would be like, my biggest
takeaway is just look at your
marketing automation platform.
Do you really need to
spend that much money?
Look at AI native alternatives,
of which there are five or six
already that are really good.
Do you need agencies to prop you up?
Do you need to make noise at all
times or could you just not post
on LinkedIn for three weeks and
then post something really good?
Like, these were the things that
actually I think, marketing departments
in fintech need to think about because.
You can get a lot of return on modest
spend if you just challenge kind
of conventional wisdom, I think.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
No, I love that.
And just on that, because I'm curious,
and it's a big topic right now, you
said it yourself, a hundred percent of
your searches are Gemini and like chat.
Bt.
How are you at Volt thinking?
Oh, our customers are probably,
or prospects are doing the same.
Are you trying to optimize
for those platforms?
How are you thinking about it?
I know it's very early
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah we are, I assume
I've started to think about so brand
dimensions are, massively important.
I mean, before I get that, before,
I mean it sounds like we're talking
about a different age kind of was
now that's where we're heading
with the media.
It was always like, you know, if you
got coverage in City AM or Forbes, we'd
always want a follow lick rather than.
Then a do not follow
link for the link juice.
Now suddenly, doesn't
really matter anymore.
Its brand mentions from kind
of high authority websites.
I think, chat GBT has nothing
to do with Google does it?
It doesn't scrape it at all.
It scrapes bing,
Araminta Robertson: Well, I
mean it's, well it's supposed to
scrape Bing, but there's more and
more evidence that actually it
relies a lot on the Google index.
There's a few theories here.
People think that maybe Open AR developing
their own index, which is very similar to
the Google one or they're double checking,
so they're doing Bing and then Google.
But if you look, there's a lot of
people have been reporting that if
you look at what chat PT generates
is now very similar to Google.
So
Charlie Gilbert: ah, okay.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, that's good to know.
But yeah, basically, so the kind of
on the PR side, we're trying to get as
much coverage as possible and play into.
What people are searching for now
so somebody could be searching for.
Well, I've heard a lot about state Hello
chat GPT because I'm a basically a boomer.
I still say hello to chat
gt every time you do.
What are the commercial use cases?
For a FinTech break, and it's
like, these are the things that
we need to start talking about.
Addressing kind of the
open banking negativity.
It's gone quiet with open banking.
Why has it gone quiet?
That's even, that's the kind of
search term on chat GBT, isn't it?
So yeah, maximizing kind of,
media coverage with our leadership
team talking about these things,
getting those brand mentions.
Hopefully chat, GPT then recognizes us
as being a point of authority and then.
To be able to do a lot more of is
those kind of longer form articles
that actually feed the content
that these LLMs serve because they
rely on this kind of high authority
written by humans content, right?
Otherwise it would just
start recycling slot.
Like it's this not the biggest
danger right now with kind of
where the content world is heading.
So as long as we do our tiny
little bit in the grand scheme of
things, then I think we can help.
We, so I think someone did a search
for, pay two providers in Australia
on chat, GBT and Volt came up as like
Araminta Robertson: Nice.
Charlie Gilbert: with the
link and the citation.
I was like, yeah, okay.
That's
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Are you seeing inbounds via LLMs?
Like, I don't know how you track it.
We track it with how did you find, hear
about us, like a form field, but are you
seeing more and more of your website leads
Charlie Gilbert: right.
We're the moment.
Araminta Robertson: Interesting.
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah.
I hope
Araminta Robertson: Maybe because, yeah,
I've, I mean, I've shared this at our
conference a few weeks ago, but we're
seeing some of our clients like 20, this
last month, July, 30% of their website
inbounds are from LLMs.
So it's growing very quickly.
I don't know.
How are you, I haven't checked your
when people submit a form, do you
have a, how did you hear about us?
Charlie Gilbert: We do.
I can't remember what it says.
It might just be
Araminta Robertson: Okay.
Charlie Gilbert: So
Araminta Robertson: Contact,
I'm just looking, oh,
you've got a lot of
Charlie Gilbert: at that.
Araminta Robertson: types of inquiries.
So maybe that's,
so in the contact sales one I
don't see once, but maybe that's
not the main contact form.
I don't know.
But that is the thing is that
refer, if you just use refer, so the
UTM link, that's often not enough
because a lot of people don't click.
So that's why having a self
attribution basically it just might
help give a bit more visibility on
whether people are using LLMs because.
Charlie Gilbert: We've got an action plan.
No.
Araminta Robertson: It's like, yeah,
as crazy as I'm saying, like 20, 30%
we're like, this is a whole new channel.
And so that's why we're spending a
lot of resources now, testing, playing
around with it, trying to figure
out what works and what doesn't,
Charlie Gilbert: yeah.
No, absolutely is.
I need to look at kind of where, that
would apply kind of more grand at a
granular level if like pay two, for
example, is being a thing that, that we're
being highlighted for or is kind of a
Araminta Robertson: hmm.
Charlie Gilbert: provider.
So that's a bit homework for today.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Bit of yeah.
Action points.
I think I like what you say though about
covering like recent or current topics.
I think that's an interesting strategy
for appear on LMS because they already
have a recency bias in the sense
that these l lms often they will
prioritize content that was published
in the last month rather than last.
Six months or one year.
Whereas SEO is the opposite, right?
Where the longer it's being
published, the more authority it has.
So it's an interesting tactic because
just by covering very recent topics,
you're a lot more likely to be.
That's interesting.
I might test that more,
see if that influence,
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, exactly.
And if only we had kind of
more resource to to do that
justice, but I think it will.
as we do dive a little bit more into the
data, we can then look at a business case
and this is where the world is heading.
We need to reflect now our kind
of content output in line with
this kind of shifting trend.
' cause it's all about the
discoverability is changing completely.
Even like the
concept of a website is, by
virtue of kind of clicking through and
that not being a thing anymore, are
we gonna see like websites disappear?
'cause they're just not
needed
Araminta Robertson: know.
No.
Or they'll be just built for bots.
Like this
is an interesting, I need to do an
episode on this, on just this topic.
Will the content we create
only be for bots or LLMs?
Because then the LLM interprets
like, this is the first time
in the world of SEO where.
You're creating content that then
will be manipulated, interpreted,
and you don't know how that will be
interpreted to the end user and that
end user might never read your content.
That's pretty mind blowing to me.
And
then I'm like, it could, we could be
in a world where we only create content
for bots and is that a bad thing?
Maybe not.
I'm not sure,
Charlie Gilbert: Well from, almost like
from a copyright perspective and yeah,
the use of original source material
without express permission, that's
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Charlie Gilbert: kind of
potentially problematic, right?
Araminta Robertson: That's already, yeah.
I mean, there's a few bunch of
publishers that are taking OpenAI
to core already about this, and
Anyway, it's changing every week.
It's pretty crazy.
Right.
So this has been so interesting.
Thank you so much.
Charlie.
I think we could talk for hours, but I
know we're, we are at our time limit,
so I'd just like to finish off with
what's one piece or multiple pieces of
content that you're the proudest of.
Charlie Gilbert: Good question.
I'm gonna reference that long form
open banking around the world piece.
'cause it felt like the
only piece of its kind.
On the internet.
And yeah, I'm proud of that because
it just became a resource, right?
It's not necessarily about, vanity
metrics, how many people are engaging
it, how many leads did it facilitate?
It was an interesting experiment in
terms of wanting to create a resource
that was evergreen for as long as.
And was interesting people engaged
with it and I think it did that.
And then the other thing I'm most proud
of for completely different reasons is
the stablecoin video that I did on my
own LinkedIn because my comedy hero Bob
Mortimer has a song called Slender People.
You can listen to it on Spotify.
And I.
Somehow managed to remove his
voice from that song and use the
track and the tune to do a kind
of stable coin, explain a video.
And I made the words rhyme and
everything, so I was happy with that.
And it felt like a different way to
explain something that's quite topical and
some people click liked on it, clicked to
like on it, on LinkedIn, so that obviously
released dopamine and made me happy right.
Yeah, so maybe I've got a musical
career, maybe I'm completely
deluded, but maybe you know, this
is the future for me is having
a musical career.
Araminta Robertson: sure.
Maybe you should put them on TikTok.
I'm
curious about how you don't know.
I'm sure there's some open banking
people on there, stablecoin.
Charlie Gilbert: TikTok?
I occasionally open, I have an account
which I never use, and occasionally I
open the app and then I delete the app.
'cause I'm just,
like, nah, just, this is not for me
too much.
I'm gonna be 40 this year.
So I'm not, I'm, I don't belong there.
Araminta Robertson: You need to
protect your attention spans as well.
I feel like that thing is terrible
for our attention span, so, but yeah,
it's, that's the one video I didn't watch.
I watched the one where you're wrapping
and I thought that was really impressive.
But I haven't seen the stable
Charlie Gilbert: yeah.
I forgot about that one.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
So I have to watch stablecoin one
'cause I know that's such a hot topic.
Every finance influencer
Charlie Gilbert: Yeah, it's way better.
Araminta Robertson: Yeah.
Okay.
Okay, good.
Charlie Gilbert: I enjoyed it way more.
Araminta Robertson: Okay, cool.
I'll take a look.
No, I love that.
Amazing.
Well, thanks so much, Charlie.
I really appreciate you jumping on.
This was a fascinating discussion.
I think we went into a lot of
different topics, but super
useful, super interesting.
So yeah, thanks again for coming on.
Charlie Gilbert: No pleasure.
Thank you so much for having me.
Araminta Robertson:
Thank you for listening.
You can find show notes and information
about guests at fintechmarketinghub.
com forward slash podcast.
And finally, huge thanks to Orama.
tv for producing this podcast.
We look forward to having
you on our next episode.