1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:02,340 I am. 2 00:00:03,390 --> 00:00:04,920 And this is choosing leadership. 3 00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:09,510 A podcast for high performers, with big dreams at work and life. 4 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:14,280 This is a podcast for people who know deep inside that there is more. 5 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,369 Have you achieved a great deal of success? 6 00:00:17,759 --> 00:00:21,090 But on the inside, you still feel empty and like an imposter. 7 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:24,270 Do other people see you as a strong leader? 8 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:28,650 And you wonder why it still feels so lonely and suffocating. 9 00:00:29,339 --> 00:00:34,289 The aim of this podcast is not to provide you more content, but instead shift 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:35,849 the context under which you operate. 11 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,199 I dare to speak to the tremendous power, which you already have 12 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:41,609 rather than what you believe. 13 00:00:42,029 --> 00:00:43,769 Are your strengths and limitations. 14 00:00:44,459 --> 00:00:47,489 This podcast is called choosing leadership because that is 15 00:00:47,489 --> 00:00:49,529 what leadership is a choice. 16 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:52,306 And this is the leadership journey, CDs. 17 00:00:52,936 --> 00:00:56,806 I am interviewing leaders with an interesting story to learn how 18 00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:58,036 they got where they are today. 19 00:00:58,576 --> 00:01:01,396 We all have a lot to learn from each other's stories. 20 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:02,476 Of Viet. 21 00:01:02,506 --> 00:01:04,096 We started very veer now. 22 00:01:04,486 --> 00:01:06,736 And over successes and struggles on the V. 23 00:01:07,216 --> 00:01:09,406 With this series of interviews, my attempt. 24 00:01:09,886 --> 00:01:13,996 Is to give leaders an opportunity to share their stories and for all of us 25 00:01:14,026 --> 00:01:16,126 to learn from their genders sharing 26 00:01:17,370 --> 00:01:21,090 Roy Samuel is a serial entrepreneur and angel investor. 27 00:01:21,660 --> 00:01:25,620 He's currently the CEO and founder of connected and was previously 28 00:01:25,620 --> 00:01:27,720 the CEO and founder of real sport. 29 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:32,940 He regularly invests in early stage tech companies and also mentors at the 30 00:01:32,940 --> 00:01:36,810 Lerner school of economics, socially conscious spin-out accelerator. 31 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,500 He's also a mentor at the founder Institute and he helps 32 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:42,030 founders build a meaningful. 33 00:01:43,345 --> 00:01:48,055 In our interview, Roy opens about his views on entrepreneurship leadership 34 00:01:48,445 --> 00:01:50,065 and his relationship with money. 35 00:01:50,575 --> 00:01:55,735 We also talk about how our early experiences shape us in very subtle 36 00:01:55,735 --> 00:01:59,365 ways, which we do not realize and the importance of vulnerability, 37 00:01:59,425 --> 00:02:01,615 transparency, and caring for people. 38 00:02:02,365 --> 00:02:05,155 We also discussed the paramount responsibility of an early 39 00:02:05,155 --> 00:02:10,195 stage startup leader to their team and invents investors. 40 00:02:10,285 --> 00:02:11,575 And how is that very much? 41 00:02:14,496 --> 00:02:15,066 Hi, Roy. 42 00:02:16,046 --> 00:02:18,086 Welcome to the choosing leadership podcast. 43 00:02:18,516 --> 00:02:21,006 Thank you so much for having me on really appreciate you taking 44 00:02:21,006 --> 00:02:22,026 the time to speak with me. 45 00:02:23,301 --> 00:02:23,721 Wonderful. 46 00:02:23,721 --> 00:02:28,101 It's a pleasure to be here with you and to get to hear about your study. 47 00:02:28,641 --> 00:02:32,481 So before, before we start, why don't you give our listeners a 48 00:02:32,481 --> 00:02:34,251 brief introduction of who you are? 49 00:02:34,611 --> 00:02:37,823 What have you been up to daily and any interesting tidbits from you? 50 00:02:38,903 --> 00:02:40,093 Yeah, absolutely. 51 00:02:40,543 --> 00:02:42,743 I'll try and give you the quick version. 52 00:02:42,825 --> 00:02:46,969 Essentially I've been working in startups for about 10, 11 years now. 53 00:02:46,984 --> 00:02:51,714 I founded something in 2014 whilst studying at university, 54 00:02:52,014 --> 00:02:53,214 which was essentially. 55 00:02:53,859 --> 00:02:55,989 Content creation toolkit. 56 00:02:56,349 --> 00:03:00,579 So helping people create podcasts, videos, other types of content, and 57 00:03:00,579 --> 00:03:01,929 then a community to share everything. 58 00:03:02,589 --> 00:03:06,189 And we just got really fortunate with it, but a right time, right place. 59 00:03:06,272 --> 00:03:09,842 Just when social publishing was getting very popular and we actually 60 00:03:09,842 --> 00:03:13,652 applied it to the worlds of sports and gaming, massive sports fan myself. 61 00:03:13,670 --> 00:03:14,116 And it was just. 62 00:03:14,786 --> 00:03:17,666 Big brands started to pay attention to gaming in a big way. 63 00:03:17,666 --> 00:03:20,966 So we just got really fortunate with the timing that we managed to scale 64 00:03:20,966 --> 00:03:25,477 it to about 8 million monthly users primarily UK, us and Australia. 65 00:03:25,487 --> 00:03:30,027 And then that business was acquired by a gaming company in 2018 called. 66 00:03:30,030 --> 00:03:34,800 Off the back of that was fortunate enough to start advising startups as a board 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,090 advisor, occasionally as a non-exec and also start angel investing as well 68 00:03:39,095 --> 00:03:44,059 which I love doing and, always great to be able to support new founders, 69 00:03:44,059 --> 00:03:48,510 new entrepreneurs coming through started working my own FinTech in 2019, 70 00:03:48,510 --> 00:03:52,680 which essentially provides tools for the early stage venture ecosystem. 71 00:03:52,763 --> 00:03:55,303 And continue with my work as an advisor and an investor. 72 00:03:56,583 --> 00:03:57,543 Thank you for sharing that. 73 00:03:57,973 --> 00:04:01,243 Can you share what happened or what shaped you to be an honorable. 74 00:04:02,653 --> 00:04:04,313 Yeah, it's a really interesting question. 75 00:04:04,313 --> 00:04:08,636 , my dad was always an entrepreneur with varying levels of success. 76 00:04:08,675 --> 00:04:13,518 I really think, it's easy to see entrepreneurial-ism to see, leadership 77 00:04:13,518 --> 00:04:16,534 and think, oh, that looks great and looks really attractive, but it doesn't. 78 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:17,350 All the time. 79 00:04:17,350 --> 00:04:20,420 And when it's not always a success, it can have real impacts. 80 00:04:20,450 --> 00:04:23,150 We grew up with not a lot of money at different times. 81 00:04:23,150 --> 00:04:25,912 There were periods for years where you didn't have income and 82 00:04:25,912 --> 00:04:27,083 really difficult periods of time. 83 00:04:27,083 --> 00:04:30,263 And that leads to all sorts of impact on family, life and 84 00:04:30,263 --> 00:04:31,593 home life and all those things. 85 00:04:31,624 --> 00:04:35,160 But he kept on working through and finally made his first bit of money 86 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,791 when I was about 19 years old. 87 00:04:36,791 --> 00:04:41,172 Very much my experience growing up as a child, teenager was one of, 88 00:04:41,172 --> 00:04:43,853 whatever you get in your life, you're going to have to work for, there 89 00:04:43,853 --> 00:04:45,463 wasn't going to be any handouts. 90 00:04:45,473 --> 00:04:47,701 It wasn't going to be anything other than, you know, what have you. 91 00:04:47,701 --> 00:04:51,639 And so I think always had a bit of a drive to me, but for a long time, 92 00:04:51,639 --> 00:04:54,939 I didn't think I wanted to be an entrepreneur because I didn't think that. 93 00:04:56,079 --> 00:04:59,949 Johnny we'd be not as a family was necessarily one, which I'd 94 00:04:59,949 --> 00:05:01,669 want to put my family through. 95 00:05:01,702 --> 00:05:02,872 But it finds you in a way. 96 00:05:02,932 --> 00:05:09,610 And I think, if you're someone who enjoys working a bit more in a bit of 97 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:13,690 an unusual way, maybe, or a way where you want to really just go into what 98 00:05:13,690 --> 00:05:15,070 you're passionate about rather than. 99 00:05:15,106 --> 00:05:18,499 You have to do I think entrepreneurial-ism sometimes comes around. 100 00:05:18,499 --> 00:05:22,399 So it was definitely something I was aware of growing up, came back and forth 101 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:26,659 on the idea of it, but it started off in entrepreneurial-ism quite early and then 102 00:05:26,659 --> 00:05:29,957 really started founded my first business by the time it looked at university. 103 00:05:31,187 --> 00:05:34,047 Yeah, this is very relevant for me as well, because I have 104 00:05:34,047 --> 00:05:35,566 seen my father do the same. 105 00:05:36,606 --> 00:05:40,541 Jump from one job or one business to another business and mostly 106 00:05:40,541 --> 00:05:44,021 with very different levels of success or failure, right? 107 00:05:44,021 --> 00:05:46,176 The way we, the way we use these two words. 108 00:05:46,176 --> 00:05:50,602 But I think even as a bystander, even as a bystander to that, I learned a lot. 109 00:05:50,672 --> 00:05:54,492 I grew a lot, I think, in, in maturity in talking with people. 110 00:05:54,512 --> 00:05:58,386 So I'm sure that the journey is like a chips, you, without 111 00:05:58,626 --> 00:06:00,156 you being aware of it at times. 112 00:06:00,174 --> 00:06:03,957 And if you consider what I am doing, like setting up as a coach, this would 113 00:06:03,957 --> 00:06:09,577 be my four to start up all 42, like where I'm really stepping out on my own. 114 00:06:09,577 --> 00:06:09,813 Yeah. 115 00:06:09,889 --> 00:06:12,585 And I think my father maybe did maybe 10 or 12 that I can 116 00:06:12,585 --> 00:06:14,085 at least remember if not more. 117 00:06:15,030 --> 00:06:15,450 Yeah 118 00:06:15,465 --> 00:06:18,918 This is the thing I think when your, I think if you grew up with quite 119 00:06:18,918 --> 00:06:21,978 an easy life, maybe sometimes you're a bit more sheltered sometimes. 120 00:06:21,978 --> 00:06:25,998 Not always, but more sheltered from the harsh realities of what 121 00:06:25,998 --> 00:06:28,758 it means to make money and to not have money and all these things. 122 00:06:28,758 --> 00:06:31,608 But if you did have that experience growing up, I think. 123 00:06:32,233 --> 00:06:34,513 You mature at a much quicker rate. 124 00:06:34,753 --> 00:06:37,979 So I think if you, at eight years old, 10 years old, whatever, it 125 00:06:37,979 --> 00:06:42,292 might be, start having to face those realities of, what the real world is. 126 00:06:42,502 --> 00:06:46,492 I think it definitely means that when you come into 18, 19 years old, you're 127 00:06:46,492 --> 00:06:50,646 already a few years ahead in terms of having a bit of a bit more focus, maybe. 128 00:06:50,673 --> 00:06:51,003 Yes. 129 00:06:51,003 --> 00:06:51,993 I think that's very true. 130 00:06:52,653 --> 00:06:52,893 Yeah. 131 00:06:53,223 --> 00:06:54,663 And since you also mentioned about. 132 00:06:55,463 --> 00:06:59,897 Money while growing up, I wanted to ask how has that shaped your relationship? 133 00:07:00,767 --> 00:07:02,937 Like with money, with finances, with capital. 134 00:07:02,937 --> 00:07:07,991 And just to give you a context, I think money has always been a challenge for me. 135 00:07:08,321 --> 00:07:12,971 And I've grown in my relationship with money, like started with 136 00:07:13,391 --> 00:07:14,531 being very careful about that. 137 00:07:15,431 --> 00:07:19,279 And then as I became an entrepreneur, I see that was limiting me. 138 00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:23,836 So I expanded my view, but I still sometimes get the, those like moments 139 00:07:23,836 --> 00:07:27,916 of anxiety, especially for something which is monetary is at stake. 140 00:07:27,916 --> 00:07:30,436 So I wanted to ask you, how has that. 141 00:07:31,756 --> 00:07:32,964 It's really interesting. 142 00:07:32,964 --> 00:07:36,277 I think I've got a very strange relationship with money and it's not 143 00:07:36,277 --> 00:07:38,347 being a good one for a long time. 144 00:07:38,407 --> 00:07:42,558 My, my dad always used to tell me and it's funny, this is not necessarily a 145 00:07:42,558 --> 00:07:44,597 good lesson, but it's only money right. 146 00:07:44,597 --> 00:07:48,107 In the sense of, because I think he had money coming when he goes 147 00:07:48,107 --> 00:07:49,437 so many times during his life. 148 00:07:49,447 --> 00:07:51,877 My money's one of those things that sometimes you'll have it. 149 00:07:51,877 --> 00:07:52,897 Sometimes you won't have it. 150 00:07:52,971 --> 00:07:54,831 That was what I was told. 151 00:07:55,161 --> 00:08:00,111 So the idea of like building savings, the idea of building, trying to build wealth 152 00:08:00,111 --> 00:08:03,991 from those things, it was not a concept taught or practice in my household. 153 00:08:03,991 --> 00:08:05,936 It was this year we've got money next year. 154 00:08:05,936 --> 00:08:08,756 We might not who the hell knows it will be well be. 155 00:08:08,846 --> 00:08:13,166 And I think that when I started earning money, cause I started, working really 156 00:08:13,166 --> 00:08:14,846 hard and trying to do all these things. 157 00:08:15,146 --> 00:08:15,926 It meant I didn't have. 158 00:08:16,596 --> 00:08:19,686 Necessarily a lot of those fundamentals about what it meant to save and 159 00:08:19,686 --> 00:08:21,006 how to be smart with your money. 160 00:08:21,366 --> 00:08:24,336 I really didn't know until him that really had to try and figure that out myself. 161 00:08:24,445 --> 00:08:29,659 And I think when I was maybe younger, I was probably a bit too relaxed with 162 00:08:29,659 --> 00:08:32,299 money and I didn't, cause it didn't matter because if it didn't have 163 00:08:32,299 --> 00:08:33,619 money, I was used to not having money. 164 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:35,299 So if I have it, I spend it. 165 00:08:35,419 --> 00:08:36,939 So I don't think I was very good at that. 166 00:08:36,939 --> 00:08:41,139 Now, obviously after my first exit, that was really cause it 167 00:08:41,139 --> 00:08:43,089 was like, okay, now I've actually got something where I can change. 168 00:08:44,219 --> 00:08:47,579 And if I'm not careful, now then I could read. 169 00:08:47,609 --> 00:08:47,789 Yeah. 170 00:08:47,789 --> 00:08:49,989 So that was really the moment when it changed for me. 171 00:08:50,038 --> 00:08:51,778 But yeah, it took me a long time to get there. 172 00:08:51,958 --> 00:08:55,005 So 26, I would say I had a really bad relationship with money in that sense. 173 00:08:55,085 --> 00:08:55,265 Yeah. 174 00:08:55,265 --> 00:08:58,843 So tell me a little bit about what you do currently, which is basically investing 175 00:08:58,845 --> 00:09:00,525 into startups and putting your money in. 176 00:09:00,525 --> 00:09:03,616 And then how does that give meaning, meaning to what. 177 00:09:04,451 --> 00:09:04,821 Yeah. 178 00:09:04,841 --> 00:09:05,081 So 179 00:09:05,081 --> 00:09:08,381 after we sold real sport, I knew immediately I wanted 180 00:09:08,381 --> 00:09:09,711 to start into investing. 181 00:09:09,711 --> 00:09:10,432 That was the goal. 182 00:09:10,469 --> 00:09:14,219 And I was really aware of the issues that founders have when it comes to raising 183 00:09:14,219 --> 00:09:17,226 capital, connecting with the right people, getting access to the right networks. 184 00:09:17,466 --> 00:09:22,056 What I was fascinated by was when I started angel investing as you, how 185 00:09:22,056 --> 00:09:25,686 many barriers to entry there were as an angel investor, because when you're the 186 00:09:25,686 --> 00:09:28,473 founder, you're living and breathing the business, you're going to get after it. 187 00:09:28,473 --> 00:09:30,353 You're going to make sure you're in the events you're going to get into. 188 00:09:30,993 --> 00:09:33,963 You're going to try and get into all the right places as the investor. 189 00:09:34,233 --> 00:09:36,153 He might be working on your own full-time projects. 190 00:09:36,183 --> 00:09:37,653 You're managing other opportunities. 191 00:09:37,653 --> 00:09:38,913 You're looking at doing other stuff. 192 00:09:39,183 --> 00:09:43,356 So actually getting access to really good deal flow, getting access to all the 193 00:09:43,356 --> 00:09:47,226 right entrepreneurial community is getting access to spin-outs and accelerators. 194 00:09:47,266 --> 00:09:48,516 It's basically full time. 195 00:09:49,246 --> 00:09:50,146 In and of itself. 196 00:09:50,536 --> 00:09:51,916 So I thought, okay, interesting. 197 00:09:51,916 --> 00:09:55,216 How many people want to be involved in that conversation, that investment 198 00:09:55,216 --> 00:09:59,146 conversation, and can't get access to it because they don't have the time 199 00:09:59,146 --> 00:10:00,076 they don't have the infrastructure. 200 00:10:00,226 --> 00:10:01,516 So I thought it was a really interesting idea. 201 00:10:01,516 --> 00:10:06,616 So I started to build an infrastructure for angel investors and family offices 202 00:10:06,616 --> 00:10:13,501 as well, potentially VCs in 2019 to help structure origination, to structured data. 203 00:10:13,501 --> 00:10:14,791 When looking at angel investors. 204 00:10:15,721 --> 00:10:18,541 Just building that through 2019, we launched in February. 205 00:10:18,541 --> 00:10:20,911 It's funny in March 20, 20 lock down here. 206 00:10:21,211 --> 00:10:25,351 So always a good time to bring something new to market, but we actually found, we 207 00:10:25,351 --> 00:10:30,691 were quite fortunate with it because the tools we were building to make the angel 208 00:10:30,691 --> 00:10:34,591 investment and early stage ecosystem a bit more structured, we're really well 209 00:10:34,591 --> 00:10:36,421 positioned for the lockdown period. 210 00:10:36,421 --> 00:10:39,121 So we're now seeing investments ranging from. 211 00:10:39,736 --> 00:10:45,010 Really early stage and at 25 30 K SIS sort of staff the biggest one we've seen 212 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,170 so far, there's a 2.6 million investment into the series, a, of a consumer AI 213 00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:52,536 and lots of transactions along the way. 214 00:10:52,536 --> 00:10:56,740 So I'm still regularly angel investing myself, but also doing it through 215 00:10:56,740 --> 00:10:59,050 the platform that we've built and seeing great deals that way. 216 00:10:59,050 --> 00:11:02,230 So it's a super interesting time in terms of early stage investment. 217 00:11:03,460 --> 00:11:03,850 Yeah. 218 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,220 And what do you find most challenging about about angel investing 219 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,238 and also about this new role? 220 00:11:09,238 --> 00:11:11,402 Because you have innovate started from scratch. 221 00:11:12,242 --> 00:11:13,025 So what is new? 222 00:11:13,025 --> 00:11:14,315 What is the most challenging part? 223 00:11:15,515 --> 00:11:17,045 I think the most challenging call is. 224 00:11:18,365 --> 00:11:23,255 When you find deal flow in a space that you're not really familiar with, 225 00:11:23,855 --> 00:11:28,145 because if you find a business that you think you really like, and you 226 00:11:28,145 --> 00:11:30,856 like the entrepreneurs, and you'd like the founders involved, but 227 00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:32,356 you don't know the space very well. 228 00:11:32,506 --> 00:11:35,296 It can be quite difficult to know whether it's going to be a good investment or not. 229 00:11:35,506 --> 00:11:37,426 But I think it comes to trusting people. 230 00:11:37,876 --> 00:11:40,036 Fundamentally, this is what I learned. 231 00:11:40,066 --> 00:11:41,126 The first angel investment. 232 00:11:41,126 --> 00:11:42,758 It was a big one for me. 233 00:11:42,758 --> 00:11:45,068 I know for some people it's not, but I invested 50,000 pounds. 234 00:11:45,098 --> 00:11:48,188 My first, that was the first angel investment I made after my exit. 235 00:11:48,428 --> 00:11:51,158 And it was in a mental health technology platform. 236 00:11:51,548 --> 00:11:54,518 And I really liked the space. 237 00:11:54,518 --> 00:11:56,888 I'm a big believer and supporter in mental health. 238 00:11:56,888 --> 00:12:01,425 I wanted to invest in that space, but as it turns out, the business was fraught 239 00:12:01,425 --> 00:12:03,975 in many ways, but totally back the. 240 00:12:04,685 --> 00:12:06,005 You'd have thought the founders were great. 241 00:12:06,155 --> 00:12:10,445 And as it happens, the founder of that business, she's now the COO of my FinTech. 242 00:12:10,895 --> 00:12:14,441 So that was a really great learning experience for me that, you back 243 00:12:14,441 --> 00:12:16,836 people because you want to be involved with the right people and 244 00:12:16,836 --> 00:12:18,006 want to support the right people. 245 00:12:18,006 --> 00:12:20,663 And, you know that you can build stuff with them. 246 00:12:20,663 --> 00:12:23,523 And even if it's as a portfolio company, if it's bringing them into. 247 00:12:23,523 --> 00:12:25,918 The way that I've learned to deal with that issue of not necessarily 248 00:12:25,918 --> 00:12:28,628 knowing the space inherently is saying, do I trust the people? 249 00:12:28,650 --> 00:12:31,380 Do I believe in this person, do I want to work with this person? 250 00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:36,401 Gotta, gotta make sure that, you can go to bed at night, feeling happy 251 00:12:36,401 --> 00:12:37,721 that you've given someone your money. 252 00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:39,569 And then I think that's a really nice way of dealing with that. 253 00:12:40,619 --> 00:12:40,829 Yeah. 254 00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:44,709 So in this in this new journey, tell us is there anything new 255 00:12:44,729 --> 00:12:47,617 that you are discovering about yourself as a leader as a person 256 00:12:48,877 --> 00:12:49,327 it's? 257 00:12:49,357 --> 00:12:50,317 Yeah, absolutely. 258 00:12:50,317 --> 00:12:55,383 Because the business that we built last time was a very different one, real 259 00:12:55,383 --> 00:12:59,763 support we got, we had about 60 people at the time that we sold it, but it was 260 00:12:59,763 --> 00:13:01,470 a really different type of business. 261 00:13:01,530 --> 00:13:08,860 And I think with connected, what I'm learning is you've really got to nurture 262 00:13:08,860 --> 00:13:12,523 all of your people to go on, not just the journey for the company, but their own. 263 00:13:12,553 --> 00:13:15,387 And you really got to help those people achieve what they want to do 264 00:13:15,717 --> 00:13:18,657 because ultimately, unless you've got the right team to execute on things. 265 00:13:18,657 --> 00:13:23,277 And unless that bought into a personal plan, as well as a business 266 00:13:23,277 --> 00:13:27,837 plan, that is just not going to work people is everything right. 267 00:13:27,837 --> 00:13:28,557 And you can have the bet. 268 00:13:28,587 --> 00:13:31,587 And with real sport, we were just very fortunate that the team that we 269 00:13:31,587 --> 00:13:34,113 have the start was, it seemed you had all the way throughout in terms of 270 00:13:34,113 --> 00:13:35,943 an executive team, but it connected. 271 00:13:35,943 --> 00:13:37,123 Cause I think the ambition is big. 272 00:13:37,194 --> 00:13:38,194 We're trying to do as big as. 273 00:13:38,223 --> 00:13:40,984 For me launching into Europe this year, it's going to be a 274 00:13:40,984 --> 00:13:42,484 much, much bigger organization. 275 00:13:42,664 --> 00:13:45,913 So making sure that you put an arm around everyone give 276 00:13:45,913 --> 00:13:47,413 everyone their own personal plan. 277 00:13:47,413 --> 00:13:49,404 It's so important, but it's a difficult thing to do. 278 00:13:50,604 --> 00:13:51,294 Yes, indeed. 279 00:13:51,294 --> 00:13:51,594 Indeed. 280 00:13:51,594 --> 00:13:51,894 It is. 281 00:13:51,894 --> 00:13:56,082 I think many leaders that I'm talking to these days, Even if they understand 282 00:13:56,082 --> 00:14:00,107 the value of connecting with people and exactly what you shared, not just helping 283 00:14:00,107 --> 00:14:03,617 them in their journey in the company, but also in their personal journey. 284 00:14:04,307 --> 00:14:07,127 But they have this challenge that they have no time for it, or 285 00:14:07,127 --> 00:14:08,657 their share deal is too booked. 286 00:14:08,717 --> 00:14:12,707 And they have so many like testing demands size of either something 287 00:14:12,707 --> 00:14:14,727 going wrong or something more. 288 00:14:14,727 --> 00:14:15,891 How do you deal with that? 289 00:14:15,891 --> 00:14:18,873 And especially now, or maybe you are, you're investing in and you're talking to 290 00:14:18,873 --> 00:14:21,033 tens of founders and groups of founders. 291 00:14:21,453 --> 00:14:22,743 How do you manage your time? 292 00:14:22,743 --> 00:14:26,253 How do you manage that pressure of a demand on your time? 293 00:14:27,033 --> 00:14:28,101 Yeah it's so tough. 294 00:14:28,161 --> 00:14:28,911 It is really tough. 295 00:14:29,281 --> 00:14:34,221 I brought in a, an EA back in the last year, which has made the 296 00:14:34,221 --> 00:14:37,941 biggest difference and I always avoided doing it because I thought 297 00:14:37,941 --> 00:14:42,561 it was actually, it could be seen as ego thing I was so against it. 298 00:14:42,561 --> 00:14:44,871 And I, I basically had to, I sent a message. 299 00:14:44,901 --> 00:14:49,896 So my team, my core team, and then last year saying guys, I don't want 300 00:14:49,896 --> 00:14:51,326 this to come across as an ego thing. 301 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:55,984 I don't think I'm in a different position to anyone until I actually start to think. 302 00:14:55,984 --> 00:15:00,514 Now my time has gotten to the point where if I don't make a change significantly, 303 00:15:00,664 --> 00:15:03,964 it's going to harm the business because I didn't, I was having less and less 304 00:15:03,964 --> 00:15:05,404 time to spend with the core team. 305 00:15:05,584 --> 00:15:11,229 So I think your job as a CEO in many ways, Is to protect your 306 00:15:11,229 --> 00:15:13,179 time to spend with your core team. 307 00:15:13,779 --> 00:15:18,669 So bringing in an EA has massively helped on that side and trying to limit the 308 00:15:18,669 --> 00:15:22,869 amount of time I spend on smaller tasks. 309 00:15:22,869 --> 00:15:25,389 So I can really just be there for my team. 310 00:15:25,389 --> 00:15:27,549 Cause once you, what you're seeing when you've gotta trust them, right? 311 00:15:27,549 --> 00:15:30,279 So it's your job to just be a bit of a safety net for those guys, 312 00:15:30,324 --> 00:15:32,623 so I think that's been a massive help, but yeah, you need to know. 313 00:15:32,664 --> 00:15:34,800 You need to put the hours in, right? 314 00:15:34,831 --> 00:15:39,121 I don't buy into this idea of if you're a founder of a business, you 315 00:15:39,121 --> 00:15:40,456 could do a four day working week. 316 00:15:40,456 --> 00:15:42,190 I don't believe it's your responsibility. 317 00:15:42,430 --> 00:15:45,430 I think your responsibility is to your team and to your investors. 318 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,340 If you've raised capital from angel investors, we're not talking about 319 00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:51,707 VCs where it's, an institutional fund, for example, what if you've raised, 320 00:15:51,778 --> 00:15:54,478 if you've raised money from angel investors, these are real people. 321 00:15:55,178 --> 00:15:58,427 It was spent, lots of their they're called hard-earned cash, which is that 322 00:15:58,427 --> 00:16:00,694 children's inheritance money on you. 323 00:16:00,722 --> 00:16:05,042 You owe it to them to be an absolute machine on that side. 324 00:16:05,042 --> 00:16:06,842 So you've got to, you've got to find the Simons of the 80 325 00:16:06,842 --> 00:16:08,012 hour weeks, all the rest of it. 326 00:16:08,012 --> 00:16:12,333 I'm a big believer in that, but still protect your time to focus on the most. 327 00:16:13,498 --> 00:16:13,948 Yes. 328 00:16:14,218 --> 00:16:14,458 Yes. 329 00:16:14,458 --> 00:16:16,378 I think there are two key things which you shared. 330 00:16:16,378 --> 00:16:21,298 One is about responsibility and I always say responsibility is 331 00:16:21,298 --> 00:16:22,588 a hundred percent in unfunded. 332 00:16:22,621 --> 00:16:26,648 So you can put in all the, for the 40 hour, weeks of four day, four day work 333 00:16:26,648 --> 00:16:31,148 weeks, but at the same time, not at the expense of your responsibility, as long 334 00:16:31,148 --> 00:16:34,508 as the responsibility is taken care of, you can, you'll get, you're totally free. 335 00:16:34,928 --> 00:16:39,518 It's a, it's your role as a founder to exercise your creative freedom and 336 00:16:39,518 --> 00:16:44,168 take care of your people, but not at the expense of your responsibility and. 337 00:16:45,128 --> 00:16:47,978 Sometimes that means taking some tough decisions as well, either 338 00:16:47,978 --> 00:16:50,798 on your personal time or like even on the wider organization. 339 00:16:51,518 --> 00:16:52,464 Absolutely. 340 00:16:52,464 --> 00:16:55,367 I completely agree with you that it's really interesting. 341 00:16:55,367 --> 00:16:57,687 I think one of the big responsibilities is to the team. 342 00:16:57,687 --> 00:16:58,777 If I am not. 343 00:16:59,187 --> 00:17:02,904 Helping push forward the organization so that everyone on my team can 344 00:17:02,904 --> 00:17:06,054 be on an amazing journey and build their own track record and all those 345 00:17:06,054 --> 00:17:07,552 things I'm doing wrong by them. 346 00:17:07,552 --> 00:17:09,832 So it's a shared responsibility thing, for sure. 347 00:17:09,982 --> 00:17:12,892 I'm very fortunate as well that my, my girlfriend understands 348 00:17:12,892 --> 00:17:14,092 the entrepreneurial journey. 349 00:17:14,181 --> 00:17:15,741 Her, brother's an entrepreneur. 350 00:17:15,784 --> 00:17:20,764 She's seen it from a very early age where means to have that commitment. 351 00:17:21,124 --> 00:17:21,904 I think sometimes. 352 00:17:22,904 --> 00:17:25,220 For example, if you're with someone who doesn't understand, 353 00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,220 it can be very difficult. 354 00:17:26,340 --> 00:17:27,360 So I'm really fortunate for that. 355 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:29,010 Yeah. 356 00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:32,360 And the second thing which I wanted to highlight, which often goes unnoticed 357 00:17:32,930 --> 00:17:35,240 is what you shared about your ego mate. 358 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,730 When you hired your EA and many times people or leaders stop themselves 359 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,260 because they have a hunch or they have a sense of how others will perceive them. 360 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,930 And what you hear is very powerful because you put your 361 00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:50,180 responsibility first and then. 362 00:17:50,875 --> 00:17:54,085 Even opened up and say that I feel this way, what should I do? 363 00:17:54,085 --> 00:17:57,445 Or like you invited other people in and that's not easy. 364 00:17:57,469 --> 00:18:00,151 So I want to acknowledge you, but like for anybody who is listening, 365 00:18:00,151 --> 00:18:04,831 this is so important to not get lost in your thought patterns and then 366 00:18:04,831 --> 00:18:09,871 to put your responsibility first and then your preferences, your strengths, 367 00:18:09,871 --> 00:18:11,381 your weaknesses, all of that. 368 00:18:11,381 --> 00:18:13,866 Second, I think that's very important to what. 369 00:18:15,046 --> 00:18:16,256 Yeah, I totally agree. 370 00:18:16,316 --> 00:18:16,816 And you're right. 371 00:18:16,816 --> 00:18:18,826 It's about transparency as well. 372 00:18:18,826 --> 00:18:21,766 Being transparent with your team of being authentic and saying, look, guys, 373 00:18:22,186 --> 00:18:23,806 I'm struggling with the idea of this. 374 00:18:23,895 --> 00:18:25,545 That I'm just going to be honest with you guys. 375 00:18:25,615 --> 00:18:29,205 It's super important, but, and it's one of the most difficult things to striking 376 00:18:29,205 --> 00:18:35,525 the balance because you need to show and truthfully be very considerate, very 377 00:18:35,525 --> 00:18:37,115 open to what other people think about. 378 00:18:37,805 --> 00:18:41,015 But you also need to be decisive enough that people have faith in you as a leader. 379 00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:44,465 So it's getting that balance of saying, I want to listen to everyone and I 380 00:18:44,465 --> 00:18:48,605 want to take on board all of your ideas and managing that with, but don't 381 00:18:48,605 --> 00:18:50,315 worry, guys, this is the decision. 382 00:18:50,315 --> 00:18:51,215 This is what we're going to do. 383 00:18:51,215 --> 00:18:52,655 So it's a really fun one. 384 00:18:53,380 --> 00:18:55,974 So that to get the balance on, but this is the challenge, right? 385 00:18:55,974 --> 00:18:56,384 It's a fun. 386 00:18:57,384 --> 00:18:57,834 Yes. 387 00:18:57,864 --> 00:18:58,164 Yes. 388 00:18:58,184 --> 00:19:03,054 And I love that you are calling it a fun challenge because this can often 389 00:19:03,054 --> 00:19:07,944 become a very lonely journey for people and feel like a burden and what 390 00:19:07,944 --> 00:19:11,354 you did when you invited your people in and when you are transparent 391 00:19:11,354 --> 00:19:13,304 is actually lets go of that burden. 392 00:19:14,024 --> 00:19:16,454 It makes it easier for others to help you. 393 00:19:16,934 --> 00:19:20,444 And also acknowledges that leadership is not a loneliness. 394 00:19:21,384 --> 00:19:21,754 Yeah. 395 00:19:21,754 --> 00:19:25,970 Even though it feels lonely to a lot of people but by definition it is 396 00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:29,150 not only, it cannot be lonely because you are working with us so many. 397 00:19:29,855 --> 00:19:30,365 Yeah. 398 00:19:30,515 --> 00:19:33,755 And I think one of the things we're trying to do with connected, as well as 399 00:19:33,755 --> 00:19:38,784 getting a, in the same way that you are, leaders to talk to each other as well, 400 00:19:39,084 --> 00:19:43,534 because it's important, it's so great to be able to share those challenges. 401 00:19:43,534 --> 00:19:46,354 As you said, share them with your team, share them with other peers. 402 00:19:46,354 --> 00:19:48,214 It's it really is important. 403 00:19:48,214 --> 00:19:48,694 And I think. 404 00:19:48,762 --> 00:19:49,752 I'm fortunate. 405 00:19:49,820 --> 00:19:50,570 We're fortunate. 406 00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:54,770 We're part of a generation which does value that. 407 00:19:55,010 --> 00:19:58,767 Whereas probably two years ago, if you were a leader, you couldn't even be 408 00:19:58,767 --> 00:20:00,477 seen to be second guessing anything, 409 00:20:00,543 --> 00:20:00,713 yes. 410 00:20:02,113 --> 00:20:05,971 So when I used to lead teams in organizations one question which I always 411 00:20:05,971 --> 00:20:11,351 use to start a one-on-one meeting was tell me something I do not know about you. 412 00:20:11,351 --> 00:20:15,761 I always found this question very valuable because even if a person is somebody 413 00:20:15,761 --> 00:20:20,111 whom I have known for many years, there is always hidden sites of that person. 414 00:20:20,111 --> 00:20:22,341 And this question allows that to come out. 415 00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:25,610 So can you tell our listeners something which most people do not know. 416 00:20:26,375 --> 00:20:28,334 I've just got to say, I really liked that. 417 00:20:28,364 --> 00:20:33,165 That's a really great technique and I love the idea of, really trying to get to know 418 00:20:33,165 --> 00:20:37,536 your people, even when you've known them for years, giving them that now, have you? 419 00:20:37,536 --> 00:20:37,836 Yeah. 420 00:20:37,866 --> 00:20:38,136 Okay. 421 00:20:38,136 --> 00:20:38,556 Religion. 422 00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:42,516 So I spent the first seven years of my life between London and Amsterdam 423 00:20:42,616 --> 00:20:43,666 which most people don't know. 424 00:20:43,666 --> 00:20:47,096 So yeah, we were spending half the week there, half the week here. 425 00:20:47,138 --> 00:20:48,184 And I think I've got a map. 426 00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:51,259 Affinity still was adopted and loved being there. 427 00:20:51,409 --> 00:20:53,389 And it's strange because I don't have the most memorable. 428 00:20:54,184 --> 00:20:57,814 From then whenever I go back in, I really feel a deep connection with the place. 429 00:20:57,814 --> 00:21:00,273 So yeah, that's something I very rarely speak about. 430 00:21:00,285 --> 00:21:00,585 Yeah. 431 00:21:01,425 --> 00:21:01,695 Yeah. 432 00:21:01,725 --> 00:21:02,085 Thank you. 433 00:21:02,085 --> 00:21:05,920 And is that seven years of your childhood or seven years after you? 434 00:21:06,340 --> 00:21:07,060 Yeah, exactly. 435 00:21:07,060 --> 00:21:07,780 From when I was born. 436 00:21:07,780 --> 00:21:09,100 So those about seven years old. 437 00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:09,834 Yeah exactly. 438 00:21:09,834 --> 00:21:14,510 And it's yeah, I have, I really have some very basic but fond memories 439 00:21:14,510 --> 00:21:15,791 of it and it's interesting because. 440 00:21:15,870 --> 00:21:21,900 You don't know how much you consume or influenced by culture at an early stage. 441 00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,080 And it's so hard to know, but whenever I go now and I really 442 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,930 still feel that affinity with the place and can speak to the people. 443 00:21:27,930 --> 00:21:28,861 And it's a really interesting one. 444 00:21:28,861 --> 00:21:30,742 Does, the nature versus nurture idea, 445 00:21:30,772 --> 00:21:31,102 yes. 446 00:21:31,462 --> 00:21:36,622 And I think the more I read about or study about psychology and how we 447 00:21:36,622 --> 00:21:40,732 are shaped, like those first six or seven years of our lives shape us a 448 00:21:40,732 --> 00:21:42,472 lot, even when we don't realize it. 449 00:21:42,622 --> 00:21:46,144 Like even even now I have been in Amsterdam for seven years. 450 00:21:46,144 --> 00:21:47,424 Every time I go back to. 451 00:21:48,409 --> 00:21:53,081 There is something which changes and which is outside of my conscious control. 452 00:21:53,093 --> 00:21:55,763 Because there is a sense there is a, sometimes there is a smell. 453 00:21:55,803 --> 00:21:59,193 Sometimes there is a feeling sometimes it's about the people, but 454 00:21:59,193 --> 00:22:00,723 there is something very different. 455 00:22:01,293 --> 00:22:02,403 And I see that. 456 00:22:03,108 --> 00:22:04,908 Think differently, I talk differently. 457 00:22:05,518 --> 00:22:09,678 And if I'm not aware that can actually prove detrimental to what I am trying 458 00:22:09,678 --> 00:22:11,728 to achieve as a coach, as a leader. 459 00:22:12,268 --> 00:22:16,138 So being aware of those subtle influences from our very childhood 460 00:22:16,138 --> 00:22:19,168 and many times they can, like they can become our hot buttons. 461 00:22:19,588 --> 00:22:20,188 Yes. 462 00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:24,192 As really interesting it's is that what few of my friends have 463 00:22:24,192 --> 00:22:25,842 started having children recently? 464 00:22:25,842 --> 00:22:28,567 And, they'd been telling me about books that they're reading about 465 00:22:28,567 --> 00:22:32,447 how much that imprinting is, all these things, which can just seem, 466 00:22:32,597 --> 00:22:33,797 but it must be such a challenge. 467 00:22:33,827 --> 00:22:35,147 I don't know if you've got kids. 468 00:22:35,147 --> 00:22:38,537 I don't have kids yet, but it must be such an interesting challenge 469 00:22:38,537 --> 00:22:43,097 of trying to manage that when you know how a formative, the six, seven 470 00:22:43,097 --> 00:22:44,317 years are the try and get everything. 471 00:22:45,072 --> 00:22:46,542 I think that would be very stressful. 472 00:22:47,431 --> 00:22:51,275 So I have a two-and-a-half year old son and it's always on the top of my mind, 473 00:22:51,305 --> 00:22:56,865 especially given my knowledge of human behavior and the kind of people I talk to 474 00:22:56,915 --> 00:23:01,581 in so many of these conversations involve sometimes going back to what happened 475 00:23:01,609 --> 00:23:03,199 at a very early point in their life. 476 00:23:03,679 --> 00:23:06,769 And sometimes it dividing or like having them see the world differently. 477 00:23:08,019 --> 00:23:11,419 Especially if you have grown up in in a war zone, or if you've grown up in 478 00:23:11,419 --> 00:23:16,480 extreme poverty it can shape you as a person and as a leader, which might not 479 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,413 necessarily be to your advantage in the. 480 00:23:18,863 --> 00:23:19,613 It's fascinating. 481 00:23:19,613 --> 00:23:23,402 My, my mum grew up in communist, Hungary and they escaped and she 482 00:23:23,402 --> 00:23:26,999 ended up in refugee camp and, all, but then they were sent back and then 483 00:23:27,299 --> 00:23:31,079 when they go send back to hungry, people had taken over that house. 484 00:23:31,109 --> 00:23:31,949 They could bet on go with it. 485 00:23:32,219 --> 00:23:33,320 And it's fascinating. 486 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,990 And as a kid, I didn't see it, but now I see so much how that's influenced down to. 487 00:23:38,999 --> 00:23:41,984 It's such a, he approves it, especially when it's something so 488 00:23:41,984 --> 00:23:43,724 extreme, as you said, but yeah. 489 00:23:43,754 --> 00:23:44,234 Tied to them. 490 00:23:44,444 --> 00:23:47,214 So I also think it's one of the reasons I'm such a hard worker is, 491 00:23:47,245 --> 00:23:50,065 from where they've come from and it transcends through the way that they 492 00:23:50,065 --> 00:23:51,295 brought me up and everything else. 493 00:23:51,323 --> 00:23:52,495 Yeah it's really interesting. 494 00:23:53,095 --> 00:23:57,325 And one of the very recent discoveries that I had is that drama, especially 495 00:23:57,325 --> 00:24:01,435 if it is a very severe can pass down generations, genetically, 496 00:24:01,615 --> 00:24:02,875 and it can actually last till. 497 00:24:03,705 --> 00:24:04,845 Three generations. 498 00:24:05,535 --> 00:24:05,835 Yeah. 499 00:24:05,855 --> 00:24:06,065 Yeah. 500 00:24:06,105 --> 00:24:10,527 So there is, there's a lot of studies on animals now but a therapist and 501 00:24:10,527 --> 00:24:15,147 also psychologists are discovering that, that trauma, unless somebody has 502 00:24:15,147 --> 00:24:19,647 intervened can actually stay on for three generations, so hidden in your 503 00:24:19,647 --> 00:24:22,587 genes and it can shape your behaviors. 504 00:24:22,587 --> 00:24:27,567 It can shape your, so the animal studies is that like you, you give an electric. 505 00:24:29,052 --> 00:24:34,142 To somebody, to an animal and their unborn children will be very. 506 00:24:35,427 --> 00:24:39,053 Those electric shocks their unborn children. 507 00:24:39,083 --> 00:24:39,203 So 508 00:24:39,214 --> 00:24:40,716 that's the, yeah. 509 00:24:40,762 --> 00:24:44,332 It's, if you buy into the theory of evolution, it makes total sense. 510 00:24:44,375 --> 00:24:45,305 It makes total sense. 511 00:24:45,485 --> 00:24:48,725 It would carry down like that, but I'll ask fascinating. 512 00:24:48,965 --> 00:24:50,195 That's so interesting. 513 00:24:50,195 --> 00:24:50,525 Wow. 514 00:24:50,735 --> 00:24:51,125 Okay. 515 00:24:51,185 --> 00:24:51,515 Yeah. 516 00:24:51,555 --> 00:24:51,805 Yeah. 517 00:24:52,255 --> 00:24:53,515 I've learned something very new today. 518 00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:55,810 Yeah, I'm mostly. 519 00:24:56,890 --> 00:24:59,860 So tell me, coming back to the present moment, what is it that 520 00:24:59,860 --> 00:25:01,210 you feel the most grateful for? 521 00:25:02,110 --> 00:25:05,230 I think everything that so much of life is luck. 522 00:25:05,830 --> 00:25:09,673 So much of life is luck because I'm very grateful that, with real support we got 523 00:25:09,673 --> 00:25:13,879 the right thing at the right time and it'd be so grateful for so many opportunities. 524 00:25:13,937 --> 00:25:18,571 Although we didn't grow up with money we grew up in a better position. 525 00:25:19,331 --> 00:25:22,592 90% of the world, probably, just by virtue of the fact that we grew 526 00:25:22,592 --> 00:25:26,473 up in, a country and a city with serious infrastructure, so I think 527 00:25:26,803 --> 00:25:28,593 you gotta be grateful for everything. 528 00:25:29,343 --> 00:25:31,662 It doesn't mean you have, I don't believe in, determinism. 529 00:25:31,662 --> 00:25:33,938 So I don't believe that, we're following a pass in any way. 530 00:25:33,938 --> 00:25:36,781 I think you've still got to work incredibly hard and all those things. 531 00:25:36,781 --> 00:25:38,804 The world is a mystery, right? 532 00:25:38,804 --> 00:25:43,574 And if things are going your way, it's just because of luck in many ways. 533 00:25:43,603 --> 00:25:44,825 And, always grateful for that. 534 00:25:44,825 --> 00:25:49,205 So I think I have been really lucky in life in having opportunities and 535 00:25:49,985 --> 00:25:51,495 having opportunities to work hard. 536 00:25:51,945 --> 00:25:52,875 Thank you for sharing that. 537 00:25:52,875 --> 00:25:57,665 And I think that's a very important point that there is so much more than. 538 00:25:59,208 --> 00:26:02,778 Play a role in the final output, right? 539 00:26:02,778 --> 00:26:04,368 Whether it's a success or failure. 540 00:26:04,998 --> 00:26:07,535 And then there's a lot which is outside of our control. 541 00:26:07,925 --> 00:26:11,178 So this first of all, it makes it easier for people to take risks 542 00:26:11,748 --> 00:26:15,378 and also makes it easier when the desired outcome is not the one. 543 00:26:16,728 --> 00:26:17,478 Absolutely. 544 00:26:17,572 --> 00:26:21,952 When you look at COVID, if you were a business that happened to be building 545 00:26:21,952 --> 00:26:26,212 something which worked for that time, it's pure luck, or if you were 546 00:26:26,212 --> 00:26:30,292 a business that was flying, but you happen to be in events or something 547 00:26:30,292 --> 00:26:31,276 like that, that's just an example. 548 00:26:31,366 --> 00:26:32,296 Like I look at the story of. 549 00:26:32,376 --> 00:26:32,706 Cool. 550 00:26:32,706 --> 00:26:33,726 They were built great. 551 00:26:33,786 --> 00:26:37,326 Clearly a great founder, clearly great technology and all the rest of it. 552 00:26:37,378 --> 00:26:41,476 Right time, place mat, miraculous, this happens overnight. 553 00:26:41,536 --> 00:26:43,156 They would just ready at the right time. 554 00:26:43,156 --> 00:26:45,916 And now suddenly they're all billionaires, everything else. 555 00:26:45,951 --> 00:26:49,168 It just goes to show you never know what's gonna happen, but that's why you 556 00:26:49,168 --> 00:26:52,288 should never get too high when we win and never get too low when you lose. 557 00:26:52,316 --> 00:26:55,229 Because the next game is around the corner and who knows what's going to happen. 558 00:26:56,094 --> 00:26:56,474 Yes. 559 00:26:56,474 --> 00:27:01,524 So coming back to, again, the same idea of balance and some sense 560 00:27:01,524 --> 00:27:05,332 of equanimity without having, experiencing the highs and lows. 561 00:27:05,332 --> 00:27:09,382 And I think experiencing some highs and lows makes it easier to experience the 562 00:27:09,382 --> 00:27:11,152 future highs and lows in a balanced. 563 00:27:11,807 --> 00:27:12,587 Yeah, definitely. 564 00:27:12,587 --> 00:27:16,865 So when we were doing real sport, the last business we were over in the us 565 00:27:16,865 --> 00:27:20,105 filming stuff, some stuff for the MBA, for some content, for our platform 566 00:27:20,188 --> 00:27:23,906 speaking to one of the players he was playing on a team called the Houston 567 00:27:23,906 --> 00:27:28,344 rockets and he was saying, the only way they survive a season is 82 games. 568 00:27:28,395 --> 00:27:32,715 It's a Ruby attendance, basketball season is exactly that when they win, it's great. 569 00:27:33,625 --> 00:27:33,895 Cool. 570 00:27:33,895 --> 00:27:34,285 That's fine. 571 00:27:34,285 --> 00:27:37,446 If they lose, it's okay, fine onto the next, you've got to, you've got 572 00:27:37,446 --> 00:27:38,798 to try and balance get that balance, 573 00:27:38,834 --> 00:27:42,301 Can you share about somebody who made a big influence on your leadership? 574 00:27:42,481 --> 00:27:45,955 And can you also share about what happened is, did they say something, did they do 575 00:27:45,955 --> 00:27:48,805 something that shaped you into intellect? 576 00:27:48,805 --> 00:27:49,762 The kind of person that you are. 577 00:27:50,212 --> 00:27:51,772 It's a really, it's a really good question. 578 00:27:51,832 --> 00:27:55,042 I think for sure, obviously, your family influenced you in a big way, 579 00:27:55,402 --> 00:27:56,692 your family friends in a big way. 580 00:27:56,751 --> 00:28:03,981 I think one of the things I learned about leadership from maybe from my dad 581 00:28:03,981 --> 00:28:08,975 is you can be a very different person in the boardroom versus our home. 582 00:28:09,073 --> 00:28:12,433 . And it's really important that you actually have a 583 00:28:12,433 --> 00:28:14,298 separation for multiple reasons. 584 00:28:14,308 --> 00:28:18,988 One, one of the main ones is things will happen in your personal life. 585 00:28:19,798 --> 00:28:22,838 Things will have in your personal, you cannot take that out in the boardroom. 586 00:28:22,873 --> 00:28:28,243 You, you really cannot because you're going to let emotions influence business. 587 00:28:28,993 --> 00:28:31,608 A bit and the two do not mix as we all know. 588 00:28:31,657 --> 00:28:33,397 So I think that's one of the things I learned is you need to 589 00:28:33,397 --> 00:28:34,927 be able to create that divide. 590 00:28:35,197 --> 00:28:37,594 And also I think things are not going well in the boardroom. 591 00:28:37,594 --> 00:28:39,184 You don't want to necessarily take that home as well. 592 00:28:39,184 --> 00:28:42,524 So I think that's a really important part of leadership is being able to. 593 00:28:43,339 --> 00:28:45,661 Remove emotion from judgment. 594 00:28:45,661 --> 00:28:46,486 But I think I'm done. 595 00:28:46,486 --> 00:28:50,926 I'm still learning so much still learning so much that I feel like my journey 596 00:28:51,286 --> 00:28:54,916 in a leadership position, my journey as a leader is so at the beginning 597 00:28:55,246 --> 00:29:00,016 that I still feel like every day I'm learning so much about what I mean. 598 00:29:00,546 --> 00:29:04,086 To be a leader, a good leader that I don't think the defining 599 00:29:04,086 --> 00:29:05,136 moments come for me yet. 600 00:29:06,196 --> 00:29:10,726 Thank you for sharing that important lesson about the space between who you 601 00:29:10,726 --> 00:29:12,556 are in different roles of your life. 602 00:29:13,156 --> 00:29:14,806 And then to not let those boundaries. 603 00:29:15,266 --> 00:29:18,446 Spilled as, especially not in a negative way, you can let it, 604 00:29:18,476 --> 00:29:19,616 fill it out the positive way. 605 00:29:19,896 --> 00:29:20,256 Yeah. 606 00:29:21,026 --> 00:29:23,893 I think one of the good ways to look at it as, no matter what's going on in 607 00:29:23,893 --> 00:29:27,193 business, if you're flying and you've got a hundred employees and you're 608 00:29:27,193 --> 00:29:31,593 about to do a big fundraiser, you still got to do the dishes at home there. 609 00:29:31,593 --> 00:29:33,583 You still got to help out around the house. 610 00:29:33,642 --> 00:29:35,415 If you want to have a happy home life. 611 00:29:35,465 --> 00:29:38,585 It's that separation of no matter what's going on that side, you 612 00:29:38,585 --> 00:29:41,376 got to stay humble and the other as well and not let it influence. 613 00:29:41,406 --> 00:29:41,496 Yeah. 614 00:29:42,426 --> 00:29:42,696 Yeah. 615 00:29:42,996 --> 00:29:46,108 And since you spoke about your journey, and that you are in their early stages, 616 00:29:46,318 --> 00:29:49,258 can you share a little bit about where are you headed and what does a 617 00:29:49,258 --> 00:29:51,058 successful future look like to you? 618 00:29:51,146 --> 00:29:56,371 I think success is doing everything you can to reach your potential. 619 00:29:57,171 --> 00:30:00,722 Whatever that means, that could be financial, it could be creative. 620 00:30:01,202 --> 00:30:04,846 It could be raising a family who are happy, many different people 621 00:30:04,846 --> 00:30:06,766 have different views on that. 622 00:30:07,006 --> 00:30:12,346 But I think that you need to go for it, whatever your view on success is. 623 00:30:12,526 --> 00:30:16,546 And I don't want anyone to think that because capitalism says 624 00:30:16,546 --> 00:30:18,016 success means bank balance. 625 00:30:18,016 --> 00:30:18,656 It does not. 626 00:30:18,691 --> 00:30:21,831 I think whatever success means, do you need to go for it a big way for me? 627 00:30:21,831 --> 00:30:22,601 I enjoy building. 628 00:30:23,191 --> 00:30:26,846 I really love to build things and I love to see how far I can take them. 629 00:30:27,296 --> 00:30:30,579 So this year we're launching in Europe, we've been going through UK. 630 00:30:30,579 --> 00:30:33,249 So we're launching in Europe, hopefully launching in the U S next year. 631 00:30:33,249 --> 00:30:36,399 So it's going to come with lots of new fun challenges again. 632 00:30:36,511 --> 00:30:38,971 But yeah, I just want to keep a building and see where we get to. 633 00:30:40,051 --> 00:30:41,003 I have that, I love that. 634 00:30:41,003 --> 00:30:42,753 How you started with your definition of. 635 00:30:42,782 --> 00:30:47,282 And at a lot of people are already leaving a definition, which they have inherited 636 00:30:47,282 --> 00:30:49,142 from the culture or from their family. 637 00:30:49,742 --> 00:30:54,422 And I think such a, that is such a powerful lesson that like, while 638 00:30:54,422 --> 00:30:57,722 you can build things, you can also build your own definitions. 639 00:30:57,722 --> 00:31:01,622 You can build your own boundaries, you can build your own values and 640 00:31:01,622 --> 00:31:06,225 then you can and you can step up for them rather than without giving a 641 00:31:06,225 --> 00:31:07,933 thought of what are you living up to? 642 00:31:08,113 --> 00:31:08,743 And so that's. 643 00:31:09,703 --> 00:31:10,573 So valuable. 644 00:31:10,573 --> 00:31:11,449 I want to highlight that. 645 00:31:11,449 --> 00:31:12,481 Yeah, absolutely. 646 00:31:12,512 --> 00:31:18,594 For some people I know they've exited the commercial world because for them, 647 00:31:18,744 --> 00:31:20,814 success is living happy, balanced life. 648 00:31:21,324 --> 00:31:26,094 So that means they want to go running 20 miles a day in the mountains, whatever it 649 00:31:26,094 --> 00:31:30,383 might be, and that's equally as successful because I think that's what success is. 650 00:31:30,393 --> 00:31:33,865 It's identifying what you want and being real to that. 651 00:31:33,865 --> 00:31:34,735 And being honest to that, 652 00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:34,999 Yeah. 653 00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:36,349 Thank you. 654 00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:41,509 So to wrap up our interview up, is there any advice that you would give to 655 00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:45,357 somebody who has a big dream or who wants to create something, but they haven't 656 00:31:45,357 --> 00:31:48,857 tasted success or they haven't gotten around to the level that they want. 657 00:31:50,172 --> 00:31:51,942 Yeah, definitely is. 658 00:31:52,152 --> 00:31:52,662 It's love. 659 00:31:52,692 --> 00:31:57,803 Learn to love the journey, because the idea of, I think what you're 660 00:31:57,833 --> 00:32:00,837 going for will always change, and especially if you do start reaching 661 00:32:00,837 --> 00:32:03,747 success, your idea of, oh, actually, no, I thought that would be good. 662 00:32:04,047 --> 00:32:05,367 I don't know, but this would be good. 663 00:32:05,787 --> 00:32:07,407 And then you reach that it moves further back. 664 00:32:07,527 --> 00:32:10,759 So you just got to love the journey because you'll always be on the journey. 665 00:32:11,779 --> 00:32:12,019 Yeah. 666 00:32:12,049 --> 00:32:13,759 So this is another wisdom. 667 00:32:14,534 --> 00:32:15,884 So learn to love the journey. 668 00:32:15,884 --> 00:32:20,474 I think these three words learn love and journey are so relevant to leadership. 669 00:32:20,984 --> 00:32:24,546 And many times we either forget about learning or we forget about that. 670 00:32:24,546 --> 00:32:27,468 It's a journey or we forget to love the whole thing. 671 00:32:27,498 --> 00:32:30,708 So all three of them actually make the journey what it is. 672 00:32:31,398 --> 00:32:32,298 Yeah, totally. 673 00:32:32,418 --> 00:32:35,628 And I think you've got to be really honest with yourself. 674 00:32:35,728 --> 00:32:36,978 The second you stop, loving the job. 675 00:32:38,228 --> 00:32:40,838 You need to evaluate whether it's a journey you want to be on, or if there's 676 00:32:40,838 --> 00:32:42,158 something else which would make you happy. 677 00:32:42,158 --> 00:32:43,928 Cause there's no point doing it. 678 00:32:44,348 --> 00:32:47,484 If you're not going to wake up every day being like, I love what I, that you've 679 00:32:47,484 --> 00:32:48,624 got to make sure that you're happy. 680 00:32:49,554 --> 00:32:49,824 Yeah. 681 00:32:49,914 --> 00:32:50,304 Thank you. 682 00:32:50,334 --> 00:32:54,204 Thank you Ray, for your time and your insights to vote for anybody who is 683 00:32:54,204 --> 00:32:57,594 listening, where can they find out more about you and maybe connecting. 684 00:32:58,449 --> 00:33:00,742 Yeah, just find me on LinkedIn Roe. 685 00:33:00,747 --> 00:33:05,067 It's a quite red name, says only a few of us on LinkedIn and Samuel. 686 00:33:05,097 --> 00:33:08,277 I'm always happy to connect with as many people as possible and 687 00:33:08,277 --> 00:33:11,517 learn about what they're doing and you can also go to connect a.co. 688 00:33:12,717 --> 00:33:13,227 Thank you. 689 00:33:13,347 --> 00:33:14,727 Thank you once again for your time. 690 00:33:14,787 --> 00:33:18,207 And totally I'm sure everybody who listens will love this conversation. 691 00:33:18,657 --> 00:33:18,927 Thanks 692 00:33:18,927 --> 00:33:19,307 so much. 693 00:33:20,335 --> 00:33:23,725 That's it for this episode of choosing leadership with summit. 694 00:33:24,865 --> 00:33:28,555 I choose leadership every time I record this podcast and I 695 00:33:28,555 --> 00:33:29,995 invite you to do the same. 696 00:33:30,445 --> 00:33:34,825 I invite you to design a life of joy, meaning pride and satisfaction. 697 00:33:35,305 --> 00:33:38,245 Not just for yourself, but also for those around you. 698 00:33:39,085 --> 00:33:43,225 This is what I do most naturally to lovingly and gently provoke you. 699 00:33:43,675 --> 00:33:48,145 To help you see your own light to help you see what you are already capable of. 700 00:33:48,625 --> 00:33:52,525 I say what might be uncomfortable for me to say, or for you to hear. 701 00:33:53,125 --> 00:33:58,245 To show you that all of our dreams which have been on hold are within our grasp. 702 00:33:59,875 --> 00:34:03,115 If you like the sound of it, do not forget to leave a rating. 703 00:34:03,685 --> 00:34:07,885 I invite you to subscribe to my newsletter@deployyourself.com 704 00:34:08,215 --> 00:34:09,175 slash newsletter. 705 00:34:09,805 --> 00:34:13,645 You can also reach out on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook to share 706 00:34:13,705 --> 00:34:15,325 any other comment or feedback. 707 00:34:16,195 --> 00:34:19,645 I want to thank everyone who contributed to making the show. 708 00:34:19,705 --> 00:34:20,395 At reality. 709 00:34:20,905 --> 00:34:22,465 And thank you for listening. 710 00:34:22,945 --> 00:34:27,475 Always remember that you are enough, you are loved and you matter, this is summit. 711 00:34:27,865 --> 00:34:30,415 Until next time, keep choosing leadership.