WEBVTT

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What physically compromised crypto wallets

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mean for everyone,

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the French fridge hacks making headlines,

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and the first confirmed case of zero-click

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spyware spread through ads.

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All this and more coming up on This

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Week in Privacy, so stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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in the Privacy Guides community and this

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week's top stories in data privacy and

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cybersecurity while answering viewer

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questions.

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I am Nate and with me this week

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is Jordan.

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How was your week, Jordan?

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Great.

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Just really good finishing up a big video

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that should be out soon.

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But yeah,

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really excited to dive into some of the

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top stories this week.

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Alrighty.

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Yeah.

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I'm definitely excited for that video,

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but we'll talk about that a little bit

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later in the site updates.

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And first we will dive into our first

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story,

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which is about the ledger hack that, uh,

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many of you have probably heard of kind

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of made the rounds, pretty crazy story.

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The headline says ledger confirms spy chip

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implant behind crypto wallet thefts.

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So, uh,

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for anyone who doesn't know ledgers are

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physical devices for your cryptocurrency

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wallets.

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Um,

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There's a lot of different ways to store

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cryptocurrency.

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Most people, unfortunately,

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kind of use an exchange like crypto.com or

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Coinbase or whatever.

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Does crypto.com still exist or did they go

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bankrupt yet?

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Anyways, so most people use that,

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but that's not really cool because then if

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the exchange gets hacked,

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all your money goes away.

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The other alternatives are non-custodial

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software wallets.

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So things like CakeWallet is really

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popular in our community for Monero and

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Bitcoin.

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But then there's also these little

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hardware tokens that are kind of like USB

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sticks that store your private keys.

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And they're supposed to be like super,

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super secure.

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Nothing in the world is unhackable,

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but these are supposed to be some of

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the most unhackable devices,

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especially when it comes to storing your

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crypto.

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And Ledger is one such manufacturer.

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So Ledger has confirmed that some of its

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devices distributed through a Southeast

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Asian reseller called CryptoBillis were

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compromised with a hardware implant that

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drained users' crypto wallets.

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Let's see.

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They say here that researchers have shown

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the implant in the Ledger X since at

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least September, September,

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saying tampered devices were available for

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nearly half the price of the original

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hardware.

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Um, I should clarify.

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I said, since at least September,

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I don't know if it's, uh,

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at least it just says since September,

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so I don't know if they've guaranteed it's

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not before that or anything like that.

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Um,

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So I'm gonna move down here a little

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bit.

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For those of you watching visually,

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you can see a photo here.

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This comes from, what's his name?

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Mark Karpeles,

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who used to be the CEO of Mt.

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Gox,

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which was one of the earliest crypto

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exchanges, I think,

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or a very early one for sure.

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They said the implant was concealed behind

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the screen,

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but its antenna cable would have been an

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indicator that something was wrong.

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The malicious hardware captured the

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device's display output and button presses

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to identify the seed phrase and then

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transmitted it to the attacker over an LTE

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connection using an eSIM.

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which is pretty wild.

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And they say that it was like modified,

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like the battery was a little bit smaller,

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but the battery powered both the screen

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and the SIM card.

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We'll come back to that in a minute.

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So to Bain Labs here,

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they said that they obtained two variants.

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One was in a leisure device bought from

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Amazon in Japan and from China-based

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seller shipped from Malaysia and the other

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was purchased on Yahoo Auctions in Japan.

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Let's see here.

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And then...

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Yeah, I mean, basically they both,

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they say in both cases,

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the telltale was the antenna wire.

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The tell, yeah,

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the tell was the antenna wire,

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which ran along the top edge in the

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case of the second implant.

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In the first implant,

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the antenna is taped across the top of

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the battery and the shielded LTE module.

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So we'll touch on this in a minute,

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but from what I can tell,

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it sounds like

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It sounds like the only way to know

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is if you actually cracked it open.

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It doesn't sound like there was any visual

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indicator without opening it.

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Even then, I got to be honest,

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like me,

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I wouldn't know what I'm looking at.

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Like, obviously, that's a circuit board.

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There's some chips.

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There's some cables.

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There's a little soldering point.

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But like,

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that looks like a clean solder to me.

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All this looks clean to me.

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Like, I don't even know, actually.

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This is supposed to be, again,

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for visual watchers.

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It says the hardware implant inside the

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Ledger X device.

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Which one's the hardware implant?

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I honestly don't know.

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But anyways,

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we'll talk about that more in a minute.

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Yeah,

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so Ledger is advising users to avoid

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purchasing from unauthorized resellers as

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they run an increased risk of getting

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counterfeit or modified devices.

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The company is also reminding its

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authorized resellers and distributors to

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get the products only through authorized

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channels and to avoid restocking returned

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products.

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And then Ledger provides a genuine check

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mechanism to determine the authenticity of

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the device.

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However,

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it explicitly warns that it cannot detect

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added implants when the device's original

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secure element remains intact.

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uh which it seems like they would have

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been it doesn't say they tampered with any

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software stuff they just said that um you

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know this is like a hard it basically

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took screenshots of your screen so it

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could see the seed phrase and then sent

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it back i mean that's an

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oversimplification but that's basically

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what it did at this time there's no

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indication that any other ledger resellers

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are shipping compromised wallets however

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the community's trust has been compromised

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with many now calling for the reseller

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network to be dismantled so yeah um

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Pretty crazy stuff.

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Let me check my notes here and make

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sure I didn't.

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Oh, yes.

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In our Q&A thread on the forum,

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some people actually shared a link saying

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that Trezor also appears to be

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compromised.

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That comes from,

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let me throw it up here real quick.

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Share this tab.

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So yeah,

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this comes from an outlet called Zeroday,

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zeterzeroday.com.

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So yeah,

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apparently Trezor has also been

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compromised, according to this person.

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Super unfortunate.

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Yeah,

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I'm going to double check my notes here

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to make sure I didn't miss anything.

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But while I'm checking that, Jordan,

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do you...

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I mentioned that hardware wallets are

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supposed to be kind of unhackable,

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but there's also software wallets.

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Do you think that people even need

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hardware wallets?

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Or is this kind of like an overrated

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thing, in your opinion?

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I mean,

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it definitely offers an additional layer

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of security.

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And, you know, I think...

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The small cost of something like this

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where, you know,

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you have something that is actually air

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gapped separately from all your devices

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where the crypto is stored is definitely a

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benefit, I think.

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Especially, you know,

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if you've got ten thousand dollars worth

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of Bitcoin or something and you just have

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to spend, you know,

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three hundred bucks on one of these

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hardware wallets,

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it makes it definitely makes a lot more

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sense to do it that way.

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But I do think, you know.

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it is one of those things where if

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you're not regularly using crypto or you

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don't have a large amount,

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then that's where I think you can

00:06:59.019 --> 00:07:02.100
definitely use software based wallets.

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And I think probably the most interesting

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development in this field that I've seen

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is I believe it's Cake Wallet.

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They've made this app called Cupcake,

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and you can just install it on an

00:07:14.906 --> 00:07:17.726
old phone and disconnect it from the

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Internet and everything.

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And it basically turns your phone into a

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hardware wallet.

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So like you could, you know,

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if you want to have kind of like

00:07:25.572 --> 00:07:29.334
a middle ground between having to use a

00:07:29.375 --> 00:07:30.735
hardware wallet and like a software

00:07:30.755 --> 00:07:32.416
wallet, you can maybe check that out.

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But I think...

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uh it's kind of unfortunate that this

00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:39.721
happened uh i think you always take a

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risk when you're selling when you're

00:07:41.141 --> 00:07:42.742
buying something from a reseller right

00:07:42.783 --> 00:07:44.963
like every time you increase another

00:07:45.105 --> 00:07:47.925
introduce another party into any equation

00:07:48.105 --> 00:07:50.267
this like this matters in security this

00:07:50.307 --> 00:07:53.048
matters in privacy obviously um as soon as

00:07:53.069 --> 00:07:56.130
you enter another person into the into the

00:07:56.170 --> 00:07:57.651
mix then i think that's when you start

00:07:58.112 --> 00:08:00.053
um increasing the risk that this sort of

00:08:00.093 --> 00:08:01.754
thing could happen um

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But yeah, I mean, that's kind of it.

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Like it really sucks for the people that

00:08:07.141 --> 00:08:08.182
were compromised by this.

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It's not something that's super easy to

00:08:10.642 --> 00:08:11.043
get around,

00:08:11.124 --> 00:08:14.225
especially if you can't buy these devices

00:08:14.285 --> 00:08:15.846
in the region that you live in and

00:08:15.865 --> 00:08:17.807
you have to rely on resellers to purchase

00:08:17.846 --> 00:08:18.026
them.

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So I think it's just a really unfortunate

00:08:21.887 --> 00:08:23.048
situation for the people that were

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compromised.

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And it doesn't seem like a huge amount

00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:27.350
that you can really do.

00:08:27.370 --> 00:08:27.870
Like you said,

00:08:27.911 --> 00:08:29.851
it's not super obvious unless you know a

00:08:29.891 --> 00:08:30.331
lot about it,

00:08:30.372 --> 00:08:31.952
like computer electronics and stuff.

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Yeah.

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And I'm not, um,

00:08:35.761 --> 00:08:37.062
unfortunately I've never been to Southeast

00:08:37.123 --> 00:08:38.744
Asia would totally love to visit one day.

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But, um,

00:08:39.825 --> 00:08:42.187
from what I understand this crypto bill is

00:08:42.226 --> 00:08:42.868
placed to me,

00:08:42.908 --> 00:08:44.469
it sounds like they're a very well-known

00:08:44.528 --> 00:08:45.049
reseller.

00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:45.529
Um,

00:08:45.570 --> 00:08:46.870
like the things that come to mind for

00:08:46.890 --> 00:08:48.552
me are like new egg here in the

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U S I'm, I'm sure there's others nowadays,

00:08:50.274 --> 00:08:51.514
but it's not like, you know, oh,

00:08:51.575 --> 00:08:52.054
I bought some,

00:08:52.436 --> 00:08:54.236
something from the sketchy third party

00:08:54.376 --> 00:08:55.177
eBay reseller.

00:08:55.197 --> 00:08:55.839
It's like, no, it's like,

00:08:55.859 --> 00:08:57.120
if I bought something off new egg

00:08:57.580 --> 00:08:58.039
personally,

00:08:58.260 --> 00:08:59.621
I would trust that it's legit because I've

00:08:59.642 --> 00:09:00.802
been using them for years and they're,

00:09:00.903 --> 00:09:01.783
they're a well-known company.

00:09:01.823 --> 00:09:02.163
So, um,

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And I actually, when I read this story,

00:09:05.107 --> 00:09:05.928
I was kind of like, oh man,

00:09:05.948 --> 00:09:08.091
that's so evil that.

00:09:08.993 --> 00:09:09.634
Is to me,

00:09:09.653 --> 00:09:10.774
it's the kind of price that like,

00:09:10.835 --> 00:09:12.037
it's too good to pass up,

00:09:12.496 --> 00:09:13.739
but it's not too good to be true.

00:09:13.798 --> 00:09:14.899
Like it's a hell of a discount.

00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:15.541
Don't get me wrong,

00:09:15.922 --> 00:09:17.043
but it's not just like, you know, oh,

00:09:17.143 --> 00:09:18.063
it's off.

00:09:18.083 --> 00:09:18.705
And it's like, okay,

00:09:18.764 --> 00:09:20.246
something's obviously off here.

00:09:20.908 --> 00:09:22.609
But at the same time, it's like, ooh,

00:09:22.849 --> 00:09:23.389
you know, yeah,

00:09:23.448 --> 00:09:25.629
I could go officially through,

00:09:27.370 --> 00:09:28.091
who was it here?

00:09:28.172 --> 00:09:28.432
Ledger.

00:09:28.511 --> 00:09:29.913
I could go through Ledger here officially,

00:09:30.613 --> 00:09:33.914
or I could go through, you know,

00:09:33.975 --> 00:09:35.154
this place where it's half off.

00:09:35.195 --> 00:09:37.716
Like, I don't know, man, that's, it sucks.

00:09:37.976 --> 00:09:38.797
I guess what I'm getting at is like,

00:09:38.817 --> 00:09:40.597
there's no huge red flags to me.

00:09:41.238 --> 00:09:41.778
Maybe I'm wrong.

00:09:42.619 --> 00:09:43.538
Maybe somebody will be like, no,

00:09:43.578 --> 00:09:44.059
this crypto bill,

00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:45.419
this place is super shady and everyone

00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:46.301
knows to stay away from them.

00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:47.201
But yeah,

00:09:47.221 --> 00:09:48.182
it seems to me like it was just

00:09:48.201 --> 00:09:48.221
a,

00:09:49.317 --> 00:09:51.457
Trying to be thrifty and bad luck,

00:09:51.518 --> 00:09:52.078
unfortunately.

00:09:54.859 --> 00:09:55.019
Yeah,

00:09:55.038 --> 00:09:56.938
I guess there's not really a lot of

00:09:56.979 --> 00:09:57.940
defenses against this.

00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:00.240
Like we said,

00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:00.960
as far as we can tell,

00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:02.980
you couldn't tell unless you were opening

00:10:03.019 --> 00:10:03.941
it up and looking at it and knew

00:10:03.961 --> 00:10:04.721
what you were looking at.

00:10:05.441 --> 00:10:06.280
One thing I should mention is the

00:10:06.441 --> 00:10:07.441
investigation is ongoing,

00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:09.001
so they don't know who this was.

00:10:09.022 --> 00:10:10.261
They don't know who the attacker was.

00:10:10.682 --> 00:10:11.922
They don't know if this was a rogue

00:10:11.961 --> 00:10:13.782
employee or, like the article mentioned,

00:10:13.802 --> 00:10:14.962
maybe somebody was buying them and

00:10:14.982 --> 00:10:16.243
modifying them and returning them.

00:10:17.702 --> 00:10:18.144
So, yeah,

00:10:18.203 --> 00:10:20.745
but I guess the only the only other

00:10:20.784 --> 00:10:21.804
thing I could think of that I would

00:10:21.825 --> 00:10:23.245
advise people is just don't flash your

00:10:23.265 --> 00:10:23.865
crypto around.

00:10:24.046 --> 00:10:24.206
I mean,

00:10:24.225 --> 00:10:26.506
that it's a lot of people when it

00:10:26.527 --> 00:10:27.187
comes to cash.

00:10:27.326 --> 00:10:28.788
I know I haven't heard this in a

00:10:28.807 --> 00:10:28.988
while,

00:10:29.008 --> 00:10:29.927
but I know for a while there were

00:10:29.947 --> 00:10:30.908
a lot of people who were like, oh,

00:10:30.928 --> 00:10:32.408
I don't want to carry cash around because,

00:10:32.889 --> 00:10:33.990
you know, what if I get mugged?

00:10:34.049 --> 00:10:34.730
And it's like, well,

00:10:34.929 --> 00:10:35.870
criminals aren't psychic.

00:10:35.971 --> 00:10:37.071
They don't know that you've got one

00:10:37.091 --> 00:10:38.131
hundred dollars in your pocket.

00:10:39.203 --> 00:10:41.785
Unless you do like Futurama fans will know

00:10:41.806 --> 00:10:42.366
the reference here.

00:10:42.427 --> 00:10:43.967
Unless you're like Bender going to the

00:10:43.988 --> 00:10:46.230
club and flashing all your money around,

00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:47.551
then you might draw some attention.

00:10:47.571 --> 00:10:48.490
So, you know, if you do have,

00:10:48.510 --> 00:10:48.871
like you said,

00:10:48.892 --> 00:10:49.993
you have like ten thousand dollars in

00:10:50.013 --> 00:10:50.373
crypto.

00:10:50.773 --> 00:10:50.993
Yeah.

00:10:51.052 --> 00:10:53.174
Maybe don't post about that on Twitter all

00:10:53.195 --> 00:10:53.534
the time.

00:10:53.836 --> 00:10:56.157
Maybe don't be like, oh, crypto's up.

00:10:56.256 --> 00:10:57.719
I made seven hundred dollars today.

00:10:57.778 --> 00:10:59.799
Like, just keep that to yourself.

00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:01.662
You know, tell tell your partner,

00:11:01.721 --> 00:11:02.381
tell your wife,

00:11:02.501 --> 00:11:03.702
don't tell the whole world.

00:11:03.822 --> 00:11:04.943
So, yeah,

00:11:04.984 --> 00:11:07.285
that's that's probably the best I can

00:11:07.346 --> 00:11:07.605
offer.

00:11:07.725 --> 00:11:08.407
But yeah.

00:11:08.767 --> 00:11:09.246
Um,

00:11:09.287 --> 00:11:10.107
I think I'll throw that one to the

00:11:10.148 --> 00:11:10.447
audience.

00:11:10.467 --> 00:11:10.748
Like what,

00:11:10.847 --> 00:11:12.269
what do you guys do to secure your,

00:11:12.389 --> 00:11:12.849
your crypto?

00:11:12.869 --> 00:11:14.370
Like odd bite here said I use cake,

00:11:14.389 --> 00:11:15.230
which cake is great.

00:11:16.130 --> 00:11:18.192
Um, and then, uh, yeah,

00:11:18.211 --> 00:11:19.832
somebody said you could just don't use

00:11:19.913 --> 00:11:20.373
crypto.

00:11:20.613 --> 00:11:21.113
I mean, yeah,

00:11:21.153 --> 00:11:22.333
if you don't see a need for it,

00:11:22.354 --> 00:11:24.294
if you've got access to cash and other

00:11:24.315 --> 00:11:25.375
tools, that's also fine.

00:11:25.436 --> 00:11:28.057
Not saying you have to, but, um, yeah.

00:11:28.687 --> 00:11:29.928
I'll let you guys answer that one.

00:11:30.149 --> 00:11:32.734
And I think we'll turn it over to

00:11:32.754 --> 00:11:33.014
Jordan,

00:11:33.033 --> 00:11:33.835
because I don't think there's been any

00:11:33.875 --> 00:11:34.636
questions yet.

00:11:35.096 --> 00:11:36.840
I'm checking all the different chats here.

00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:38.582
And so far, no questions.

00:11:38.623 --> 00:11:40.044
So I think I'll turn it over to

00:11:40.065 --> 00:11:41.287
you for our first forum post.

00:11:42.408 --> 00:11:42.989
Yeah, definitely.

00:11:43.028 --> 00:11:45.129
We did get a little comment here from

00:11:45.890 --> 00:11:50.572
SJJKGSNKJ.

00:11:51.134 --> 00:11:52.173
Very interesting name.

00:11:52.214 --> 00:11:52.594
Thank you.

00:11:52.653 --> 00:11:53.774
First time catching you live.

00:11:53.815 --> 00:11:54.774
Yeah.

00:11:54.815 --> 00:11:55.755
Good to see you here.

00:11:55.875 --> 00:11:58.856
And hello to everyone else who's joining

00:11:58.876 --> 00:11:59.577
for the first time.

00:11:59.618 --> 00:12:00.038
But yes,

00:12:00.398 --> 00:12:03.600
let's dive into this first forum

00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:04.139
discussion.

00:12:04.340 --> 00:12:06.360
And if you weren't aware...

00:12:07.841 --> 00:12:08.702
I guess now you are.

00:12:08.923 --> 00:12:10.344
Join our community on Fluxer.

00:12:11.083 --> 00:12:14.907
So we now have a Fluxer community.

00:12:15.006 --> 00:12:16.727
So I guess just quoting some of the

00:12:17.649 --> 00:12:18.509
posts that Jonah made,

00:12:18.889 --> 00:12:20.370
I want to invite you to test the

00:12:20.409 --> 00:12:22.251
Privacy Guides community on Fluxer.

00:12:22.711 --> 00:12:24.373
I think our Matrix chats are extremely

00:12:24.452 --> 00:12:25.913
underutilized because there are a million

00:12:25.953 --> 00:12:27.274
reasons people just don't want to deal

00:12:27.294 --> 00:12:27.914
with Matrix.

00:12:28.255 --> 00:12:30.336
But I think Fluxer solves those problems

00:12:30.716 --> 00:12:31.557
for most people.

00:12:31.817 --> 00:12:32.457
It's pretty cool.

00:12:32.479 --> 00:12:34.500
So please join and give us feedback about

00:12:34.659 --> 00:12:36.981
whether we should stick with Fluxer in the

00:12:37.001 --> 00:12:37.562
long term.

00:12:38.562 --> 00:12:40.903
And I guess some key points here,

00:12:41.423 --> 00:12:43.264
is our community self-hosted?

00:12:43.543 --> 00:12:43.903
No,

00:12:44.024 --> 00:12:46.365
it can be self-hosted and migrating to a

00:12:46.465 --> 00:12:48.644
self-hosted community should be possible

00:12:49.105 --> 00:12:50.566
later in twenty twenty seven.

00:12:51.206 --> 00:12:52.826
And Joan also said,

00:12:52.907 --> 00:12:55.586
I think self-hosting it will be the end

00:12:55.626 --> 00:12:55.986
goal.

00:12:56.607 --> 00:12:58.347
And I guess to answer some more questions

00:12:58.368 --> 00:13:00.328
about this, will it replace Matrix?

00:13:01.208 --> 00:13:01.668
Maybe.

00:13:02.028 --> 00:13:03.309
Will it replace discourse?

00:13:03.789 --> 00:13:04.110
No.

00:13:04.450 --> 00:13:07.831
So there was quite a lot of discussion

00:13:07.871 --> 00:13:08.172
on this.

00:13:08.211 --> 00:13:10.472
This was posted three days ago and it

00:13:10.592 --> 00:13:13.153
already has eighty replies.

00:13:14.335 --> 00:13:17.035
So quite a lot of discussion happening

00:13:17.076 --> 00:13:17.316
there.

00:13:17.395 --> 00:13:19.197
A lot of users were disappointed by me.

00:13:19.856 --> 00:13:22.298
lack of end-to-end encrypted direct

00:13:22.359 --> 00:13:25.081
messages and some people are just not

00:13:25.101 --> 00:13:28.825
really a fan of text chat communities

00:13:28.904 --> 00:13:31.187
which I can understand and that's why we

00:13:31.206 --> 00:13:33.028
have two that's why we have discourse

00:13:33.048 --> 00:13:34.389
that's why we have a forum that's why

00:13:34.429 --> 00:13:36.730
we have multiple places for people um

00:13:37.591 --> 00:13:40.114
I think the main thing is to have

00:13:40.193 --> 00:13:42.816
a community that everyone wants to,

00:13:42.836 --> 00:13:45.518
you know, what they prefer, basically.

00:13:45.677 --> 00:13:47.318
So if you prefer more of a text-based

00:13:47.339 --> 00:13:48.639
community for asking questions,

00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:50.302
you can do that on Fluxer.

00:13:50.322 --> 00:13:51.381
You can do that on Matrix.

00:13:51.623 --> 00:13:52.964
And on Discourse,

00:13:52.984 --> 00:13:54.644
you can also ask questions in a more

00:13:54.804 --> 00:13:56.505
structured format with a forum.

00:13:56.605 --> 00:13:58.648
So it's all very interesting.

00:13:59.107 --> 00:14:01.610
We've been testing this out for a little

00:14:01.649 --> 00:14:01.970
bit.

00:14:02.291 --> 00:14:04.471
And we've currently got, it looks like...

00:14:07.114 --> 00:14:09.796
about three hundred members on the Fluxer

00:14:10.296 --> 00:14:10.775
community.

00:14:10.855 --> 00:14:14.018
So it's been quite interesting to see that

00:14:14.118 --> 00:14:15.558
a lot of people have been joining that.

00:14:16.739 --> 00:14:18.460
I guess throwing it to you, Nate,

00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:20.240
do you have any thoughts on this one?

00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:20.500
Like,

00:14:20.541 --> 00:14:21.942
was there any comments that you saw from

00:14:21.981 --> 00:14:23.363
the thread that were interesting?

00:14:24.283 --> 00:14:26.865
How do you feel?

00:14:26.945 --> 00:14:27.904
I didn't go through the whole thing

00:14:27.924 --> 00:14:28.426
because like you said,

00:14:28.466 --> 00:14:29.586
that's eighty posts.

00:14:29.846 --> 00:14:31.586
And yeah, I think it's

00:14:33.326 --> 00:14:34.826
I think it's very, I mean,

00:14:34.866 --> 00:14:35.787
as far as like texts,

00:14:36.086 --> 00:14:38.467
like real-time chats versus forums, to me,

00:14:38.589 --> 00:14:41.950
it's a mixture of personal preference and

00:14:42.090 --> 00:14:42.529
use case.

00:14:42.610 --> 00:14:45.010
You know, some people, like you said,

00:14:45.030 --> 00:14:46.591
or like people said in the comments,

00:14:46.951 --> 00:14:49.352
some people don't want a real-time chat

00:14:49.393 --> 00:14:50.514
because they're just too chaotic.

00:14:50.553 --> 00:14:51.394
They move too fast.

00:14:51.433 --> 00:14:52.835
It's not a good place to get information.

00:14:53.254 --> 00:14:53.855
And that's fine.

00:14:54.035 --> 00:14:54.176
Like,

00:14:54.196 --> 00:14:55.235
that's why we're not getting rid of the

00:14:55.255 --> 00:14:55.495
forum.

00:14:55.535 --> 00:14:56.356
The forum is sticking around.

00:14:56.397 --> 00:14:57.116
It's not going anywhere.

00:14:57.197 --> 00:14:57.797
Jonah said that.

00:14:58.278 --> 00:14:58.557
Yeah.

00:14:59.378 --> 00:15:00.677
And nobody's saying you have to join

00:15:00.717 --> 00:15:01.158
Fluxer.

00:15:01.238 --> 00:15:01.918
It's just like, hey,

00:15:01.938 --> 00:15:03.219
this is something we're exploring.

00:15:04.038 --> 00:15:05.958
As far as like Matrix versus Fluxer,

00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.360
my personal opinion on Matrix is I've been

00:15:09.379 --> 00:15:11.080
extremely disappointed with the moderation

00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:11.440
tools.

00:15:12.041 --> 00:15:13.500
I used to have my own Matrix community.

00:15:14.461 --> 00:15:16.100
The moderation tools did not exist.

00:15:16.361 --> 00:15:19.422
And I had to resort to third-party tools,

00:15:19.701 --> 00:15:21.802
which my community was getting attacked so

00:15:21.863 --> 00:15:24.182
specifically that I was actually in talks

00:15:24.222 --> 00:15:25.543
with the Dropnear people and they were

00:15:25.562 --> 00:15:27.203
like custom building stuff for me.

00:15:27.323 --> 00:15:27.943
It was so bad.

00:15:28.724 --> 00:15:30.304
And eventually I still just threw up my

00:15:30.345 --> 00:15:30.884
hands and I was like,

00:15:30.904 --> 00:15:31.764
this isn't worth it to me.

00:15:31.865 --> 00:15:32.184
I quit.

00:15:32.664 --> 00:15:35.566
So what I'm interested in with Fluxer more

00:15:35.586 --> 00:15:36.405
than anything is like,

00:15:36.546 --> 00:15:37.486
how is the moderation?

00:15:37.927 --> 00:15:38.706
Because in my opinion,

00:15:39.386 --> 00:15:41.067
that's like the big thing that I think

00:15:41.128 --> 00:15:43.488
is going to keep things from mainstream

00:15:43.509 --> 00:15:43.889
adoption.

00:15:43.969 --> 00:15:45.908
Like I got my brother on Matrix for

00:15:45.928 --> 00:15:48.090
a little while and he left because he

00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:49.710
got tired of all the CSAM that people

00:15:49.730 --> 00:15:51.370
would come in and troll and spam rooms

00:15:51.410 --> 00:15:51.831
and stuff.

00:15:52.390 --> 00:15:54.312
And if a room falls into disrepair,

00:15:54.351 --> 00:15:55.272
there's nothing you can do about it,

00:15:55.292 --> 00:15:57.972
which I guess once Fluxer gets federated,

00:15:59.075 --> 00:16:00.138
that'll still probably be an issue.

00:16:00.177 --> 00:16:03.267
But yeah, it's, I guess my point is,

00:16:03.307 --> 00:16:04.892
is like, I'm not opposed to,

00:16:06.063 --> 00:16:07.344
I like the idea of Matrix,

00:16:07.384 --> 00:16:08.144
but me personally,

00:16:08.245 --> 00:16:09.684
I feel like Matrix just has so many

00:16:09.725 --> 00:16:11.245
gaps and it's had them since I got

00:16:11.265 --> 00:16:11.745
into privacy.

00:16:11.785 --> 00:16:13.187
It's been this way for like ten years.

00:16:13.866 --> 00:16:15.466
And I'm interested to see if Fluxer can

00:16:15.506 --> 00:16:16.327
fill any of those gaps.

00:16:16.388 --> 00:16:17.648
But at the end of the day,

00:16:17.748 --> 00:16:18.427
I think it's going to be about the

00:16:18.447 --> 00:16:18.828
community.

00:16:18.928 --> 00:16:20.308
Like we've even noted like, oh, wow,

00:16:20.328 --> 00:16:21.730
Fluxer is really chatty right now.

00:16:21.830 --> 00:16:23.769
But, you know, it's the honeymoon phase.

00:16:23.809 --> 00:16:25.291
Will it still be this chatty in a

00:16:25.331 --> 00:16:26.671
week, two weeks, a month?

00:16:26.750 --> 00:16:27.471
Like we don't know.

00:16:27.572 --> 00:16:29.432
So it's just something we're exploring.

00:16:29.471 --> 00:16:30.172
We're testing out.

00:16:30.373 --> 00:16:30.972
And yeah.

00:16:32.196 --> 00:16:33.916
think yeah i don't know i mean like

00:16:34.096 --> 00:16:37.517
leave your opinions again i think um it's

00:16:37.576 --> 00:16:39.236
going to add end to end encryption that

00:16:39.277 --> 00:16:40.717
is on the road map federation is on

00:16:40.758 --> 00:16:41.918
the road map all this kind of stuff

00:16:41.937 --> 00:16:43.618
is on the road map so if that's

00:16:43.638 --> 00:16:46.418
your issue i think we've only got to

00:16:46.438 --> 00:16:47.418
wait a few months to see if they

00:16:47.438 --> 00:16:50.278
deliver on those promises but if you have

00:16:50.538 --> 00:16:53.559
other issues then or other concerns i mean

00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:56.200
yeah i don't know i've been enjoying it

00:16:56.419 --> 00:16:57.941
it's it's been nice to chat a little

00:16:57.961 --> 00:16:59.441
bit especially now that i work from home

00:16:59.480 --> 00:16:59.620
and i

00:17:00.566 --> 00:17:02.047
don't get out of the house as much.

00:17:02.187 --> 00:17:04.189
But yeah.

00:17:04.669 --> 00:17:06.589
So yeah, level five here says,

00:17:06.990 --> 00:17:08.070
as a Discord refugee,

00:17:08.090 --> 00:17:09.051
I've been really liking Fluxer.

00:17:09.092 --> 00:17:09.211
Yeah,

00:17:09.251 --> 00:17:10.932
it looks exactly like Discord without all

00:17:11.252 --> 00:17:13.214
the orbs and the quests and the ads

00:17:13.275 --> 00:17:14.295
and stuff like that.

00:17:14.395 --> 00:17:16.777
So yeah, definitely agree.

00:17:18.606 --> 00:17:21.009
I definitely think that it is

00:17:21.670 --> 00:17:23.332
controversial, I would say.

00:17:23.352 --> 00:17:26.413
There's definitely a lot of people with

00:17:26.494 --> 00:17:28.016
some critical opinions of it.

00:17:30.317 --> 00:17:30.538
You know,

00:17:30.577 --> 00:17:31.920
there's a lot of people saying that

00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:36.604
there's possibly some AI being used to

00:17:36.624 --> 00:17:37.825
develop the software.

00:17:38.605 --> 00:17:39.507
There's people, you know,

00:17:41.183 --> 00:17:42.904
saying that you should use something else.

00:17:42.944 --> 00:17:45.787
There's always people suggesting that sort

00:17:45.807 --> 00:17:46.248
of stuff,

00:17:46.327 --> 00:17:49.970
but it really comes down to which piece

00:17:50.009 --> 00:17:52.451
of software is working the best and has

00:17:52.471 --> 00:17:54.334
the best features and has what we need.

00:17:55.875 --> 00:17:56.615
And currently,

00:17:57.115 --> 00:17:58.836
people are suggesting Stoat and other

00:17:58.856 --> 00:17:59.217
things,

00:17:59.817 --> 00:18:01.999
but the feature set just isn't quite

00:18:02.058 --> 00:18:04.060
there, which is really unfortunate.

00:18:04.101 --> 00:18:06.481
But Fluxer seems to have progressed quite

00:18:06.521 --> 00:18:06.982
quickly.

00:18:08.503 --> 00:18:09.744
We've definitely seen some...

00:18:10.684 --> 00:18:12.086
some interesting discussions in the forum

00:18:12.105 --> 00:18:13.507
thread um but do let us know what

00:18:13.527 --> 00:18:14.989
you think like that's the whole purpose of

00:18:15.028 --> 00:18:16.950
this it's it's a beta it's a test

00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:19.352
run it's to see whether this is something

00:18:19.392 --> 00:18:20.992
that we uh end up keeping in the

00:18:21.032 --> 00:18:24.355
long term and whether we actually move

00:18:24.395 --> 00:18:26.978
things towards that direction or not I

00:18:26.998 --> 00:18:30.580
think it's I like discord I know that's

00:18:30.601 --> 00:18:32.321
a hot take but uh that's where all

00:18:32.342 --> 00:18:34.423
the communities are and it works really

00:18:34.462 --> 00:18:37.925
well it's it's a convenient app everything

00:18:38.006 --> 00:18:38.446
is like

00:18:39.344 --> 00:18:39.824
nice.

00:18:40.464 --> 00:18:41.365
It works well.

00:18:42.026 --> 00:18:43.886
There's ads, I guess, but like,

00:18:44.508 --> 00:18:46.588
I still think that Discord is still like

00:18:46.628 --> 00:18:47.670
the best at what it does,

00:18:48.191 --> 00:18:49.131
but I do think, you know,

00:18:49.191 --> 00:18:51.792
Fluxer is looking like it could come

00:18:51.833 --> 00:18:52.273
close.

00:18:52.693 --> 00:18:52.894
Um,

00:18:52.973 --> 00:18:54.115
it definitely mirrors a lot of the

00:18:54.134 --> 00:18:56.797
features that Discord has and it has a

00:18:56.836 --> 00:18:59.578
lot of other benefits that Discord doesn't

00:18:59.618 --> 00:19:00.118
have, right?

00:19:00.159 --> 00:19:02.721
Because Discord is, um,

00:19:04.803 --> 00:19:06.584
as far as I know, it's, uh,

00:19:10.560 --> 00:19:12.963
I just got a signal message from our

00:19:13.003 --> 00:19:15.666
supporters chat from Oddbytes.

00:19:16.667 --> 00:19:16.988
They said,

00:19:17.028 --> 00:19:18.849
did you just call Discord convenient?

00:19:19.451 --> 00:19:20.172
I mean, yes,

00:19:21.413 --> 00:19:22.693
it is convenient because that's where all

00:19:22.713 --> 00:19:25.376
the communities are and that's where

00:19:25.396 --> 00:19:26.038
everyone is.

00:19:26.117 --> 00:19:26.317
So...

00:19:27.138 --> 00:19:29.619
It's convenient to talk to people, yeah.

00:19:29.819 --> 00:19:31.520
Because, you know,

00:19:31.540 --> 00:19:32.540
getting people on other apps,

00:19:32.560 --> 00:19:33.781
they're not going to respond as quickly.

00:19:33.821 --> 00:19:35.041
They're not in communities there.

00:19:35.521 --> 00:19:37.742
So, yeah, it is convenient for me.

00:19:38.303 --> 00:19:39.443
I'm not sure if maybe it's not for

00:19:39.463 --> 00:19:41.263
you, but it is for me.

00:19:41.284 --> 00:19:44.326
I would be sad to see the Fluxer

00:19:44.346 --> 00:19:44.865
community go...

00:19:45.885 --> 00:19:47.707
um and then they said they got to

00:19:47.747 --> 00:19:49.307
go all right thanks so much for tuning

00:19:49.367 --> 00:19:51.589
in but uh yeah no i think it's

00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:53.050
interesting and it's definitely something

00:19:53.070 --> 00:19:54.490
we're keeping an eye on but if you

00:19:54.550 --> 00:19:56.332
haven't joined it already definitely check

00:19:56.353 --> 00:19:58.374
it out there's a forum post uh that'll

00:19:58.394 --> 00:19:59.755
be linked in the newsletter if you

00:19:59.795 --> 00:20:01.776
subscribe to that or you can go to

00:20:01.836 --> 00:20:06.439
privacyguides.org live streams and check

00:20:06.459 --> 00:20:08.579
that out there but yeah i guess uh

00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:10.320
i guess i don't really have too much

00:20:10.381 --> 00:20:11.842
more to add unless you had something named

00:20:12.967 --> 00:20:13.807
I'll just real quick,

00:20:14.387 --> 00:20:16.911
you were saying towards the beginning that

00:20:17.131 --> 00:20:18.152
some people would prefer this,

00:20:18.172 --> 00:20:19.093
some people would prefer that.

00:20:19.452 --> 00:20:20.814
That is one of the drawbacks of having

00:20:20.874 --> 00:20:22.816
such a large community is unfortunately

00:20:22.836 --> 00:20:23.896
we're never going to please everybody.

00:20:23.936 --> 00:20:24.438
So like you said,

00:20:24.458 --> 00:20:25.338
we kind of got to figure out what

00:20:25.378 --> 00:20:26.779
works best for most people.

00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:28.642
And that's fine.

00:20:29.122 --> 00:20:29.442
I'm not...

00:20:30.123 --> 00:20:31.943
trying to say that like oh you have

00:20:31.983 --> 00:20:33.224
to like flux or you have to like

00:20:33.265 --> 00:20:34.786
matrix you have to like discourse like

00:20:35.226 --> 00:20:36.287
that's not what we're trying to say it's

00:20:36.326 --> 00:20:38.147
just you need to understand that like

00:20:38.468 --> 00:20:40.609
whatever we decide it's going to be

00:20:40.630 --> 00:20:42.049
because this is what's working best for

00:20:42.089 --> 00:20:46.613
the most number of people so yeah um

00:20:46.712 --> 00:20:48.013
advice says is it convenient to click

00:20:48.054 --> 00:20:49.375
forty fifty times to get past all the

00:20:49.434 --> 00:20:51.096
ads how many ads are you looking at

00:20:51.135 --> 00:20:52.396
man why aren't you using an ad blocker

00:20:53.643 --> 00:20:54.844
I've never seen that many ads in Discord.

00:20:54.984 --> 00:20:57.067
Or using a modified client.

00:20:57.207 --> 00:20:58.689
I would just say use a modified client

00:20:58.749 --> 00:21:00.330
or use uBlock Origin in the browser.

00:21:01.051 --> 00:21:01.752
It'll fix it.

00:21:02.733 --> 00:21:03.394
Oh, maybe that's it.

00:21:03.494 --> 00:21:05.777
I always use uBlock or a browser that

00:21:05.817 --> 00:21:06.759
has ad blocking at least.

00:21:07.713 --> 00:21:08.733
Real quick before we move on,

00:21:08.814 --> 00:21:09.453
Jason Archer said,

00:21:09.534 --> 00:21:10.894
only today I discovered I can watch this

00:21:10.934 --> 00:21:11.954
stream not from YouTube.

00:21:11.994 --> 00:21:13.556
Yeah, if you guys didn't know, we're on,

00:21:13.895 --> 00:21:15.195
let's see here, we're on YouTube,

00:21:15.236 --> 00:21:16.855
we're on the main channel and the Clips

00:21:16.895 --> 00:21:17.856
channel, we're on Twitch,

00:21:17.916 --> 00:21:20.436
we're on Twitter, we're on StreamYard,

00:21:20.656 --> 00:21:22.337
and I think we might also be streaming

00:21:22.377 --> 00:21:23.238
somewhere else too.

00:21:23.298 --> 00:21:25.558
But that's all in the forum post.

00:21:25.598 --> 00:21:28.058
We have a pinned post each week asking

00:21:28.078 --> 00:21:28.679
for questions,

00:21:28.779 --> 00:21:30.019
and it links to all of our different...

00:21:30.858 --> 00:21:31.880
streaming locations there.

00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:33.560
So on that note,

00:21:33.580 --> 00:21:34.981
we'll go ahead and move into our next

00:21:35.001 --> 00:21:37.324
story, which comes from France.

00:21:37.624 --> 00:21:38.805
It actually comes from a lot of places

00:21:38.825 --> 00:21:40.486
in Europe, but primarily from France.

00:21:40.885 --> 00:21:42.386
And it says fridge hat costing millions

00:21:42.426 --> 00:21:44.167
and sparking fires stemmed from poor

00:21:44.308 --> 00:21:44.769
security.

00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:47.361
And I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:48.461
So earlier this week,

00:21:48.541 --> 00:21:50.703
a mass hack of refrigeration systems at an

00:21:50.763 --> 00:21:52.244
estimated seven hundred supermarkets

00:21:52.265 --> 00:21:54.006
throughout France caused them to suddenly

00:21:54.046 --> 00:21:54.567
malfunction,

00:21:54.586 --> 00:21:57.169
causing spoilage of untold tons of

00:21:57.229 --> 00:21:59.250
perishables and in some cases even fires.

00:21:59.770 --> 00:22:00.471
More specifically,

00:22:00.550 --> 00:22:01.932
Internet connected controllers that allow

00:22:01.971 --> 00:22:03.614
technicians to remotely administer the

00:22:03.634 --> 00:22:05.515
store wide systems were compromised.

00:22:06.215 --> 00:22:07.336
Let me scroll down here.

00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:08.960
Um,

00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:10.582
the unknown attackers responsible then

00:22:10.721 --> 00:22:12.244
activated defrosters long enough for the

00:22:12.265 --> 00:22:13.727
fridges to reach temperatures as high as

00:22:13.826 --> 00:22:15.588
fifty degrees Celsius or a hundred and

00:22:15.608 --> 00:22:16.651
twenty-two Fahrenheit,

00:22:16.691 --> 00:22:18.133
which is pretty toasty.

00:22:18.534 --> 00:22:19.714
By the time the mass compromise was

00:22:19.734 --> 00:22:20.856
discovered, food was spoiled,

00:22:20.896 --> 00:22:22.680
and in some cases the electrical systems

00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:23.540
caught fire.

00:22:24.122 --> 00:22:24.261
So...

00:22:25.604 --> 00:22:28.086
um multiple security advisories and public

00:22:28.125 --> 00:22:29.445
research reports show that all three of

00:22:29.486 --> 00:22:30.886
controller models reportedly hacked in the

00:22:30.946 --> 00:22:31.968
incident contained critical

00:22:32.008 --> 00:22:33.509
vulnerabilities that allowed attackers to

00:22:33.568 --> 00:22:35.890
remotely log into the devices you with the

00:22:35.910 --> 00:22:38.432
same rights as administrators until

00:22:38.471 --> 00:22:40.593
recently for instance uh the danfoss

00:22:40.613 --> 00:22:42.334
controllers used a credential that changes

00:22:42.453 --> 00:22:44.414
each day and the password is generated by

00:22:44.434 --> 00:22:46.036
the publicly available firmware based on

00:22:46.056 --> 00:22:48.478
the date any uh any attacker who takes

00:22:48.498 --> 00:22:49.698
the time to analyze the code can do

00:22:49.718 --> 00:22:51.239
the same thing on any device that hasn't

00:22:51.278 --> 00:22:52.299
received a recent update

00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:54.061
Daily passwords are identical across

00:22:54.102 --> 00:22:55.643
models located in hundreds or thousands of

00:22:55.683 --> 00:22:56.064
stores.

00:22:56.585 --> 00:22:58.006
They do say that a raft of critical

00:22:58.046 --> 00:22:59.288
vulnerabilities fixed in the past few

00:22:59.307 --> 00:23:02.270
months in these controllers also gives

00:23:02.310 --> 00:23:03.332
similar remote access.

00:23:03.352 --> 00:23:05.595
So there was a patch that was not

00:23:05.615 --> 00:23:05.934
applied.

00:23:06.655 --> 00:23:07.997
They say besides running controllers with

00:23:08.017 --> 00:23:08.597
outdated firmware,

00:23:08.637 --> 00:23:10.140
the affected stores likely also failed to

00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:11.882
put devices behind a VPN and create a

00:23:11.922 --> 00:23:13.563
restricted list of IP addresses allowed to

00:23:13.603 --> 00:23:13.943
log in.

00:23:14.443 --> 00:23:15.786
These protections are standard but often

00:23:15.806 --> 00:23:16.346
not followed.

00:23:16.827 --> 00:23:17.588
And in this case,

00:23:17.608 --> 00:23:19.111
the failure enabled a mass hack that

00:23:19.151 --> 00:23:20.932
likely cost tens or hundreds of millions

00:23:20.953 --> 00:23:21.374
of euros.

00:23:21.653 --> 00:23:23.036
Spain, Portugal, Poland, Germany,

00:23:23.096 --> 00:23:25.299
and Belgium were also reportedly affected.

00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:29.484
So let's see here.

00:23:29.525 --> 00:23:30.567
Trying to make sure I just cut out

00:23:30.586 --> 00:23:31.047
the –

00:23:32.057 --> 00:23:32.997
relevant parts here.

00:23:33.577 --> 00:23:35.558
So yeah, further down, it says so far,

00:23:35.578 --> 00:23:36.919
the party behind the attack has remained

00:23:36.959 --> 00:23:37.318
silent.

00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:38.819
That raises the possibility that the

00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:40.300
motive was vandalism on a mass scale.

00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:41.902
Another possibility is a nation state or

00:23:41.922 --> 00:23:43.382
another international actor aiming to

00:23:43.422 --> 00:23:45.103
create continent wide disruption.

00:23:45.702 --> 00:23:46.824
And I actually didn't put this in the

00:23:46.864 --> 00:23:48.223
notes, but I love this final paragraph.

00:23:48.525 --> 00:23:49.845
The incident underscores the tension

00:23:49.865 --> 00:23:51.066
between the financial and security

00:23:51.086 --> 00:23:52.185
departments in most businesses.

00:23:52.506 --> 00:23:54.007
Some companies are loathe to spend large

00:23:54.027 --> 00:23:55.307
sums of money on new equipment when there

00:23:55.327 --> 00:23:56.807
are no tangible benefits or savings.

00:23:57.169 --> 00:23:57.568
Only after a

00:24:00.450 --> 00:24:01.730
executives that affected supermarket

00:24:01.750 --> 00:24:03.310
chains will likely learn the hard lessons.

00:24:03.391 --> 00:24:04.790
Less clear is whether the cautionary tale

00:24:04.810 --> 00:24:06.030
will sway other businesses.

00:24:06.652 --> 00:24:07.332
And yeah,

00:24:07.511 --> 00:24:09.152
I do not come from an IT background.

00:24:09.251 --> 00:24:10.592
I come from an audio video background,

00:24:10.652 --> 00:24:14.232
but definitely same there is, you know,

00:24:14.252 --> 00:24:15.493
a lot of the time they're like, oh,

00:24:15.854 --> 00:24:17.334
the salespeople are the ones that bring in

00:24:17.374 --> 00:24:17.614
money.

00:24:17.653 --> 00:24:18.834
Of course, we're going to, you know,

00:24:18.874 --> 00:24:20.615
give them anything they ask for.

00:24:21.134 --> 00:24:21.654
But, you know,

00:24:21.734 --> 00:24:24.375
you're asking for better cameras,

00:24:24.435 --> 00:24:25.496
better TVs, whatever.

00:24:26.296 --> 00:24:27.576
Like, you're just costing us money.

00:24:27.596 --> 00:24:28.277
And it's like, yeah,

00:24:28.297 --> 00:24:30.538
but that's what allows the salespeople to

00:24:30.598 --> 00:24:32.058
have effective zoom meetings.

00:24:32.118 --> 00:24:33.440
So I digress.

00:24:33.460 --> 00:24:35.661
But yeah,

00:24:35.701 --> 00:24:37.781
I think I don't I don't know if

00:24:37.821 --> 00:24:40.403
we have too much to say on this

00:24:40.584 --> 00:24:40.743
one.

00:24:40.983 --> 00:24:42.384
But it is just kind of a reminder

00:24:42.404 --> 00:24:44.226
that cybersecurity matters at all levels.

00:24:44.266 --> 00:24:47.287
We are increasingly in a digital world.

00:24:49.028 --> 00:24:49.188
yeah,

00:24:49.228 --> 00:24:50.308
if you're in a position where you can

00:24:50.368 --> 00:24:51.529
convince your company, uh,

00:24:51.549 --> 00:24:52.390
try to get them to care.

00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:54.030
But, uh, yeah.

00:24:54.050 --> 00:24:55.771
Do you have any other takeaways, Jordan?

00:24:55.791 --> 00:24:57.673
I don't, I don't really,

00:24:57.792 --> 00:24:58.973
I think you covered that really well,

00:24:59.034 --> 00:24:59.294
actually.

00:24:59.354 --> 00:25:00.595
I don't really have too much to add.

00:25:00.634 --> 00:25:01.816
I think I would just say, yeah,

00:25:01.915 --> 00:25:02.695
I think you're right though.

00:25:02.796 --> 00:25:05.758
These companies need to probably,

00:25:05.998 --> 00:25:07.578
you know, plan for the worst.

00:25:07.659 --> 00:25:09.400
It seems like a lot of these companies

00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.161
were not ready for this, uh,

00:25:11.241 --> 00:25:12.541
in the slightest, uh,

00:25:12.561 --> 00:25:13.883
which is why you did mention,

00:25:13.942 --> 00:25:15.604
I think there was millions of dollars of,

00:25:16.605 --> 00:25:16.944
uh,

00:25:18.355 --> 00:25:20.238
perishables being spoiled and stuff you

00:25:20.258 --> 00:25:21.939
know that's obviously that's really bad

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.602
it's all food that can be eaten it's

00:25:24.622 --> 00:25:26.864
a waste it also sucks for the company

00:25:26.903 --> 00:25:28.125
because now they've got a whole bunch of

00:25:28.165 --> 00:25:30.208
stock that needs to be moved into the

00:25:30.228 --> 00:25:32.730
garbage so yeah this is just really

00:25:32.769 --> 00:25:35.633
unfortunate stuff and I think this also it

00:25:35.673 --> 00:25:37.674
becomes more of an issue the more critical

00:25:37.694 --> 00:25:40.356
this becomes right if we're talking about

00:25:40.436 --> 00:25:40.718
like

00:25:42.199 --> 00:25:44.859
fridges in this case it's not that bad

00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:46.361
right the food just goes off what if

00:25:46.381 --> 00:25:48.602
we're talking about you know people's like

00:25:48.761 --> 00:25:51.702
medical devices all sorts of really scary

00:25:51.722 --> 00:25:54.084
stuff can happen so you know all this

00:25:54.104 --> 00:25:57.505
stuff is kind of important um to make

00:25:57.525 --> 00:25:59.185
sure that there's actual cyber security

00:25:59.226 --> 00:26:02.467
practices being followed um especially now

00:26:02.507 --> 00:26:05.048
because things are just like much more

00:26:05.087 --> 00:26:06.449
complicated than they used to be and

00:26:06.489 --> 00:26:08.809
things are internet connected so uh

00:26:10.458 --> 00:26:11.898
you need to follow suit, right?

00:26:11.959 --> 00:26:14.381
When things become more complex and are

00:26:14.421 --> 00:26:15.701
connected to the wider internet,

00:26:15.721 --> 00:26:18.364
there needs to be more thought and care

00:26:18.403 --> 00:26:19.384
put into this sort of thing.

00:26:20.085 --> 00:26:20.545
But yeah,

00:26:20.565 --> 00:26:22.506
I don't really have too much to add

00:26:22.546 --> 00:26:23.126
apart from that.

00:26:24.403 --> 00:26:24.702
Yeah, no,

00:26:24.722 --> 00:26:26.203
that reminds me of what you were just

00:26:26.223 --> 00:26:26.505
saying,

00:26:27.885 --> 00:26:29.666
reminds me about someday it could be

00:26:29.707 --> 00:26:30.467
medical devices.

00:26:31.407 --> 00:26:33.369
Darknet Diaries has a really good episode,

00:26:33.509 --> 00:26:35.851
and he's got a ton of episodes, obviously,

00:26:35.891 --> 00:26:38.472
but he's got one where the guys were

00:26:38.492 --> 00:26:41.335
doing a digital pen test in a hospital,

00:26:41.836 --> 00:26:44.217
and they were basically given free reign

00:26:44.277 --> 00:26:45.818
to go hack whatever you can.

00:26:46.598 --> 00:26:48.039
And they obviously knew it's like a

00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:48.881
hospital, like, okay,

00:26:48.941 --> 00:26:50.461
let's not cause any trouble.

00:26:51.103 --> 00:26:53.005
But one of the things they hacked into,

00:26:53.045 --> 00:26:53.224
you know,

00:26:53.244 --> 00:26:54.726
they would write down like the IP address,

00:26:54.766 --> 00:26:56.027
like whatever information they could,

00:26:56.446 --> 00:26:57.708
they would write it down and be like,

00:26:57.788 --> 00:26:58.429
all right, made a note,

00:26:58.449 --> 00:26:59.049
we got into this,

00:26:59.089 --> 00:27:00.049
let's move on to the next thing.

00:27:00.371 --> 00:27:01.511
And so when they were doing the report

00:27:01.531 --> 00:27:02.673
about here's all the things we were able

00:27:02.692 --> 00:27:03.113
to get into,

00:27:03.252 --> 00:27:05.894
one of the devices they hacked into was,

00:27:06.776 --> 00:27:07.537
you know, whatever it was,

00:27:07.576 --> 00:27:09.758
they like read it off and the hospital,

00:27:09.778 --> 00:27:10.698
it was like a zoom call with the

00:27:10.739 --> 00:27:11.778
hospital and the hospital was like,

00:27:11.798 --> 00:27:13.099
wait a minute, what was that one?

00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:13.660
Say that one again.

00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:14.580
And they like read it off again.

00:27:14.601 --> 00:27:16.061
And they're like, what time was that?

00:27:16.201 --> 00:27:17.462
And they like looked at their log and

00:27:17.482 --> 00:27:18.123
read off the timestamp.

00:27:18.143 --> 00:27:18.522
They were like,

00:27:20.183 --> 00:27:21.565
we're going to call you back and just

00:27:21.605 --> 00:27:22.746
like hung up abruptly.

00:27:23.226 --> 00:27:24.906
And they later found out they had hacked

00:27:24.967 --> 00:27:26.968
into like a laser surgery machine while it

00:27:27.008 --> 00:27:27.848
was in surgery.

00:27:28.891 --> 00:27:30.211
And so it's a really good thing that

00:27:30.231 --> 00:27:30.833
they were just, like,

00:27:30.873 --> 00:27:31.932
making notes and moving on.

00:27:32.294 --> 00:27:32.574
But, like,

00:27:32.614 --> 00:27:33.914
they could have literally killed somebody

00:27:33.934 --> 00:27:34.115
there.

00:27:34.454 --> 00:27:35.496
And obviously that's not their fault.

00:27:35.516 --> 00:27:36.416
That's the hospital's fault.

00:27:36.457 --> 00:27:37.458
But, like, yeah, like,

00:27:37.478 --> 00:27:38.459
that's not even a hypothetical,

00:27:38.479 --> 00:27:39.479
what you were just saying about, like, oh,

00:27:39.499 --> 00:27:40.819
it could be hospital devices.

00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:41.601
Like, yeah, it really could.

00:27:41.800 --> 00:27:44.303
Like, this stuff is, again,

00:27:44.663 --> 00:27:47.105
the world is becoming so heavily dependent

00:27:47.285 --> 00:27:48.886
on the internet and connected devices,

00:27:49.166 --> 00:27:50.107
for better or worse.

00:27:50.147 --> 00:27:51.548
We need to take it seriously, so...

00:27:52.881 --> 00:27:53.520
Yeah,

00:27:53.540 --> 00:27:54.981
the only other thing I had written down

00:27:55.122 --> 00:27:56.001
on the notes here is like,

00:27:56.981 --> 00:27:58.343
I've been saying this for years, is like,

00:27:58.682 --> 00:28:00.022
it's not a bad idea to take a

00:28:00.083 --> 00:28:01.503
little bit of an interest in disaster

00:28:01.523 --> 00:28:01.763
prep.

00:28:01.784 --> 00:28:01.903
Like,

00:28:01.923 --> 00:28:03.084
I'm not saying everybody has to go out

00:28:03.104 --> 00:28:03.625
and hoard like,

00:28:03.664 --> 00:28:05.065
ten million guns and build a doomsday

00:28:05.085 --> 00:28:06.065
bunker, but like,

00:28:06.085 --> 00:28:07.306
there are literally people out there

00:28:07.346 --> 00:28:07.506
that...

00:28:08.306 --> 00:28:10.087
If you don't go to the store tomorrow,

00:28:10.208 --> 00:28:11.410
you're not eating.

00:28:11.430 --> 00:28:12.832
You only have enough food for today.

00:28:13.392 --> 00:28:15.875
And so maybe have some bottled water.

00:28:16.476 --> 00:28:19.038
I've lived in many places where it floods

00:28:19.138 --> 00:28:20.461
and the system gets overwhelmed and

00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:21.240
they're like, oh,

00:28:22.222 --> 00:28:23.443
boiled water notice for the next,

00:28:23.564 --> 00:28:23.804
you know,

00:28:23.884 --> 00:28:25.145
seventy two hours just to be safe.

00:28:25.246 --> 00:28:25.506
And like,

00:28:26.067 --> 00:28:27.087
I just throw some water bottles in the

00:28:27.127 --> 00:28:28.289
fridge and move on with my life.

00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:31.651
Or, you know, um, yeah, it's just, it's,

00:28:31.770 --> 00:28:33.731
it's nice to like have a little bit

00:28:34.031 --> 00:28:35.192
and it's really simple to get started.

00:28:35.212 --> 00:28:36.173
Like next time you go somewhere,

00:28:36.693 --> 00:28:39.015
the things that you eat regularly that

00:28:39.674 --> 00:28:40.315
last a while,

00:28:40.355 --> 00:28:41.615
like maybe bread's not a good example

00:28:41.655 --> 00:28:42.895
cause that stuff can go bad pretty quick.

00:28:42.955 --> 00:28:44.497
But you know, if there's any boxed goods,

00:28:44.517 --> 00:28:46.137
canned goods, pasta, stuff like that,

00:28:46.157 --> 00:28:47.798
like just grab two boxes instead of one.

00:28:47.857 --> 00:28:48.739
And, um,

00:28:50.050 --> 00:28:51.672
I know they're controversial to some

00:28:51.711 --> 00:28:51.932
people,

00:28:51.971 --> 00:28:53.772
but FEMA has a guide about like how

00:28:53.792 --> 00:28:55.173
to stock up for like seventy two hours

00:28:55.193 --> 00:28:55.653
of disaster.

00:28:55.674 --> 00:28:56.634
It's actually really useful.

00:28:56.694 --> 00:28:58.435
It tells you like the different foods you

00:28:58.455 --> 00:29:00.297
can store and how long they last.

00:29:00.336 --> 00:29:01.637
And so, yeah, I mean,

00:29:01.738 --> 00:29:03.618
it's it's really easy to get started

00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:04.099
again,

00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:05.461
not telling everybody they need to prepare

00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:06.401
for the zombie apocalypse,

00:29:06.441 --> 00:29:08.342
but having a couple days of spare food,

00:29:08.582 --> 00:29:09.502
definitely not a bad idea.

00:29:09.522 --> 00:29:10.624
So, yeah.

00:29:10.923 --> 00:29:11.644
And then, of course,

00:29:11.663 --> 00:29:12.825
maybe just share this article around with

00:29:12.845 --> 00:29:14.266
people, if anybody cares.

00:29:14.445 --> 00:29:16.426
has any uh you know kind of again

00:29:16.467 --> 00:29:18.169
drilling that point home of like cyber

00:29:18.189 --> 00:29:19.890
security matters it's not about hiding

00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:21.530
something it's like this is the world we

00:29:21.570 --> 00:29:23.531
live in so anyways i think i've rambled

00:29:23.571 --> 00:29:25.554
enough if viewers have any uh takeaways

00:29:25.574 --> 00:29:26.974
that we missed go ahead and let us

00:29:27.035 --> 00:29:29.115
know and uh i will turn it over

00:29:29.135 --> 00:29:30.596
to jordan again to take us into the

00:29:30.676 --> 00:29:31.438
site updates

00:29:32.515 --> 00:29:32.955
Alrighty,

00:29:33.016 --> 00:29:35.438
let's dive into some site updates.

00:29:35.858 --> 00:29:38.882
But before we dive into the next story,

00:29:38.902 --> 00:29:41.085
which is about zero click malware being

00:29:41.125 --> 00:29:41.905
served by ads,

00:29:42.165 --> 00:29:43.948
we're going to give you some quick updates

00:29:44.028 --> 00:29:45.890
about what we've been working on at

00:29:45.910 --> 00:29:47.352
Privacy Guides this week.

00:29:47.571 --> 00:29:49.153
Remember to leave your questions and

00:29:49.173 --> 00:29:50.695
comments in the chat and we'll get to

00:29:50.715 --> 00:29:52.018
them in a moment.

00:29:53.439 --> 00:29:53.798
Firstly,

00:29:53.838 --> 00:29:56.460
we had more news briefs this week.

00:29:56.539 --> 00:29:59.540
So we had Android on-device AI gets a

00:29:59.601 --> 00:30:02.082
security bump with next-gen enclaves.

00:30:02.461 --> 00:30:05.202
Hackers at Pwn to Own Island exploit zero

00:30:05.222 --> 00:30:09.344
days in the Pixel X, Samsung Galaxy S.

00:30:09.884 --> 00:30:12.265
And OpenAI Codex.

00:30:12.525 --> 00:30:14.065
So we also had some other ones here.

00:30:14.085 --> 00:30:15.425
I'll just read out those.

00:30:15.945 --> 00:30:17.546
So we had a data breach roundup,

00:30:17.586 --> 00:30:19.366
which Nate does every week.

00:30:19.487 --> 00:30:20.926
So that was from October

00:30:23.768 --> 00:30:26.490
and there was also uh that story that

00:30:26.509 --> 00:30:28.770
we're going to talk about soon about

00:30:28.990 --> 00:30:32.773
targeted ads and mercenary spyware but

00:30:32.794 --> 00:30:33.874
yeah i guess i'll throw it back to

00:30:33.913 --> 00:30:36.576
you nate we've got some site changes i

00:30:36.596 --> 00:30:36.915
believe

00:30:38.674 --> 00:30:39.154
Yeah,

00:30:39.236 --> 00:30:41.477
so it's been a little bit of a

00:30:41.537 --> 00:30:43.499
slower week back here behind the scenes.

00:30:43.558 --> 00:30:44.759
Not as many changes,

00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.422
but we do have an upcoming change.

00:30:47.182 --> 00:30:48.963
We are removing LangTool,

00:30:49.644 --> 00:30:51.486
which personally I'm not super familiar

00:30:51.506 --> 00:30:51.746
with.

00:30:52.866 --> 00:30:53.467
I guess it was a...

00:30:54.528 --> 00:30:56.210
I believe it was a grammar and spelling

00:30:56.569 --> 00:30:58.471
plugin or extension, I should say.

00:30:58.531 --> 00:30:59.531
Kind of like an alternative to...

00:31:00.353 --> 00:31:00.993
Oh God, what's the one?

00:31:01.034 --> 00:31:02.455
Grammarly, I believe.

00:31:02.655 --> 00:31:03.998
And yeah,

00:31:04.357 --> 00:31:05.660
if you go to our GitHub and you

00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:07.141
click on the commits, you can see here,

00:31:07.501 --> 00:31:08.643
this one will actually take you to...

00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:11.122
a link to the actual pull request,

00:31:11.142 --> 00:31:12.202
which also links to the forum.

00:31:12.222 --> 00:31:13.202
And there's quite a bit of discussion

00:31:13.262 --> 00:31:13.483
actually,

00:31:13.503 --> 00:31:14.704
it's been going on for a while about

00:31:15.105 --> 00:31:16.465
apparently their privacy policy is a

00:31:16.526 --> 00:31:17.426
little bit questionable.

00:31:18.067 --> 00:31:21.290
And, um, again, if there is, uh,

00:31:21.371 --> 00:31:22.511
if you go to the forum post,

00:31:22.531 --> 00:31:23.893
you can see a little bit more nuanced

00:31:23.913 --> 00:31:24.252
discussion.

00:31:24.272 --> 00:31:26.194
Apparently there are ways to run it that,

00:31:26.955 --> 00:31:28.817
um, reduce some of that telemetry,

00:31:29.377 --> 00:31:30.999
but I guess we couldn't really find a

00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:32.681
way to, um,

00:31:33.885 --> 00:31:35.267
couldn't really find a user-friendly way

00:31:35.307 --> 00:31:37.027
to uh recommend that to people so we

00:31:37.047 --> 00:31:38.127
decided it was best just to like

00:31:38.147 --> 00:31:40.788
completely remove this tool so um that

00:31:40.868 --> 00:31:42.750
should has not been pushed out yet but

00:31:42.769 --> 00:31:43.769
it's one of the commits so it should

00:31:43.789 --> 00:31:46.050
be coming on the next big site update

00:31:46.111 --> 00:31:48.832
but yeah again um kind of a shorter

00:31:48.852 --> 00:31:50.992
week so that's really all we got going

00:31:51.053 --> 00:31:53.493
on here but um usually we are up

00:31:53.513 --> 00:31:55.173
to quite a bit at any given time

00:31:55.273 --> 00:31:56.875
and all of that is made possible by

00:31:56.954 --> 00:31:58.476
our supporters so you can sign up for

00:31:58.496 --> 00:31:59.915
a membership or donate at

00:31:59.935 --> 00:32:01.616
privacyguides.org donate

00:32:01.977 --> 00:32:03.218
Or you can pick up some swag at

00:32:03.238 --> 00:32:04.739
shop.privacyguides.org,

00:32:05.098 --> 00:32:06.881
like this awesome little water bottle that

00:32:06.901 --> 00:32:07.621
I've been drinking here.

00:32:08.041 --> 00:32:09.442
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit that

00:32:09.482 --> 00:32:10.943
researches and shares privacy-related

00:32:10.963 --> 00:32:12.805
information and facilitates a community on

00:32:12.825 --> 00:32:14.946
our forum and matrix and now Fluxer,

00:32:14.987 --> 00:32:16.428
where people can ask questions and get

00:32:16.468 --> 00:32:17.888
advice about staying private online and

00:32:17.929 --> 00:32:19.250
preserving their digital rights.

00:32:19.750 --> 00:32:20.990
Now let's talk about how Google is

00:32:21.050 --> 00:32:22.192
tracking all of your accounts.

00:32:22.532 --> 00:32:22.853
And again,

00:32:22.932 --> 00:32:23.993
remember to leave any questions or

00:32:24.034 --> 00:32:24.693
comments in the chat,

00:32:24.733 --> 00:32:26.174
and we will get to them in between

00:32:26.394 --> 00:32:27.016
stories.

00:32:27.655 --> 00:32:29.278
And I will turn this one over to

00:32:29.377 --> 00:32:29.678
Jordan.

00:32:30.810 --> 00:32:31.471
Alrighty then.

00:32:31.592 --> 00:32:35.616
So this is a story from Android Authority.

00:32:35.696 --> 00:32:37.558
Google is silently linking your phone

00:32:37.578 --> 00:32:40.422
number across all signed in accounts.

00:32:40.701 --> 00:32:42.463
Google now automatically verifies and

00:32:42.503 --> 00:32:45.007
attaches your phone number to every Google

00:32:45.047 --> 00:32:47.849
account signed in on your Android device

00:32:48.191 --> 00:32:49.852
without explicit prompts.

00:32:50.373 --> 00:32:52.913
Google updated its documentation between

00:32:53.074 --> 00:32:54.875
August and October,

00:32:54.914 --> 00:32:57.174
to reflect this opt-out behavior,

00:32:57.275 --> 00:32:59.516
which links numbers across secondary,

00:32:59.935 --> 00:33:01.737
work, and alt profiles.

00:33:02.237 --> 00:33:04.218
Users can turn off verify phone numbers

00:33:04.298 --> 00:33:06.318
automatically in the Android device's

00:33:06.419 --> 00:33:07.479
Google settings page,

00:33:07.818 --> 00:33:09.460
but previously linked numbers must be

00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:11.500
manually removed from each Google

00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:13.060
account's personal info page.

00:33:13.928 --> 00:33:16.371
So this is sort of a shorter story,

00:33:16.431 --> 00:33:16.770
I guess.

00:33:16.810 --> 00:33:19.232
This is just like Google vacuuming up even

00:33:19.272 --> 00:33:20.994
more information than they already have.

00:33:22.096 --> 00:33:22.457
Again,

00:33:22.696 --> 00:33:27.080
this is like one of these things where

00:33:27.101 --> 00:33:28.742
Google can kind of roll out these changes

00:33:28.942 --> 00:33:29.103
and

00:33:30.438 --> 00:33:32.159
You don't really get much of a choice,

00:33:32.298 --> 00:33:32.499
right?

00:33:32.558 --> 00:33:34.039
Especially if they control the operating

00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:34.480
system.

00:33:35.560 --> 00:33:37.061
We are showing on screen how to disable

00:33:37.282 --> 00:33:38.963
phone number verification.

00:33:39.064 --> 00:33:40.044
Open your phone settings,

00:33:40.124 --> 00:33:41.305
tap on the Google account,

00:33:41.705 --> 00:33:42.986
switch to all services.

00:33:43.426 --> 00:33:45.607
Under privacy and security section,

00:33:45.748 --> 00:33:47.970
locate phone number verification and

00:33:48.029 --> 00:33:50.131
toggle off verify phone numbers

00:33:50.230 --> 00:33:50.912
automatically.

00:33:51.632 --> 00:33:53.313
So that is kind of a lot of

00:33:53.353 --> 00:33:53.834
steps.

00:33:54.114 --> 00:33:55.575
I feel like the majority of people are

00:33:55.694 --> 00:33:56.875
not going to do this.

00:33:58.076 --> 00:33:59.396
I think it is one of these things

00:33:59.457 --> 00:33:59.678
where...

00:34:00.637 --> 00:34:02.200
Is Google doing this for a good reason?

00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:05.643
Is this a security benefit for a very

00:34:05.702 --> 00:34:09.045
small section of people where they're not

00:34:09.085 --> 00:34:10.507
adding their phone number to their account

00:34:10.547 --> 00:34:12.849
and it actually protects them from losing

00:34:12.869 --> 00:34:13.250
their data?

00:34:14.344 --> 00:34:16.126
Maybe, but let's be real.

00:34:16.425 --> 00:34:18.407
Google is an advertising company.

00:34:18.527 --> 00:34:19.648
They just want to suck up as much

00:34:19.688 --> 00:34:20.469
data as possible.

00:34:21.028 --> 00:34:22.471
I think this is mainly one of these

00:34:22.510 --> 00:34:26.514
things where they're just trying to get

00:34:26.574 --> 00:34:29.496
access to more people's information and

00:34:29.615 --> 00:34:30.677
correlate more things.

00:34:31.858 --> 00:34:35.340
It also could be used to address people

00:34:35.380 --> 00:34:37.282
making too many accounts as well.

00:34:37.702 --> 00:34:38.523
But yeah, I don't really know

00:34:39.925 --> 00:34:41.545
this does seem like one of these things

00:34:41.606 --> 00:34:44.286
where it's just an unfortunate situation,

00:34:44.327 --> 00:34:46.887
right?

00:34:46.947 --> 00:34:47.788
Yeah, for sure.

00:34:47.907 --> 00:34:48.748
It's yeah.

00:34:48.768 --> 00:34:50.068
Like you said, shorter story.

00:34:51.148 --> 00:34:51.809
I know you said this,

00:34:51.829 --> 00:34:52.608
but just to drive it home,

00:34:52.708 --> 00:34:53.949
if this has already happened to you,

00:34:53.989 --> 00:34:55.588
like if you're on stock Android and you

00:34:55.628 --> 00:34:56.550
have multiple accounts,

00:34:57.789 --> 00:34:59.510
you can turn off that verify phone numbers

00:34:59.530 --> 00:34:59.769
thing,

00:35:00.110 --> 00:35:01.610
but you still have to go into the

00:35:01.630 --> 00:35:03.030
account and manually remove the phone

00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:03.231
number.

00:35:03.271 --> 00:35:04.311
It won't get rid of the phone number.

00:35:04.331 --> 00:35:06.472
So yeah, it's, it's really annoying.

00:35:06.512 --> 00:35:07.052
Cause it, it,

00:35:08.635 --> 00:35:09.715
It's funny because Google says,

00:35:09.994 --> 00:35:11.376
so the way this is supposed to work

00:35:11.476 --> 00:35:11.936
in theory,

00:35:11.996 --> 00:35:13.097
like this verify phone numbers

00:35:13.137 --> 00:35:13.797
automatically thing,

00:35:14.217 --> 00:35:15.577
the way it's designed to work,

00:35:15.858 --> 00:35:17.518
according to Google, and you could,

00:35:17.557 --> 00:35:18.759
for the record, two things can be real.

00:35:18.878 --> 00:35:20.358
I think Google genuinely means this,

00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:21.800
but I think they're also like, hey,

00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.739
more data, why not?

00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:25.501
The way it's supposed to work is like,

00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:28.001
let's say I have the same Google account.

00:35:28.101 --> 00:35:29.963
I've had the same Gmail account since I

00:35:29.983 --> 00:35:30.902
was in high school, right?

00:35:31.543 --> 00:35:32.483
And I go out and get a new

00:35:32.523 --> 00:35:32.804
phone,

00:35:32.884 --> 00:35:34.724
and let's say I move to a new

00:35:34.764 --> 00:35:35.344
state or whatever,

00:35:35.684 --> 00:35:36.625
and I change my phone number.

00:35:37.751 --> 00:35:39.452
If I forget to update that phone number

00:35:39.472 --> 00:35:40.052
with Google,

00:35:40.652 --> 00:35:41.952
I could potentially get locked out of my

00:35:41.972 --> 00:35:42.273
account.

00:35:42.333 --> 00:35:43.795
And so Google's whole thing is like, oh,

00:35:43.815 --> 00:35:43.934
well,

00:35:43.954 --> 00:35:45.414
we'll just automatically pull it and

00:35:45.434 --> 00:35:46.255
update it for you.

00:35:46.615 --> 00:35:47.556
And that way you never have to worry

00:35:47.577 --> 00:35:47.896
about this.

00:35:49.797 --> 00:35:51.760
I'm not sure how much that holds up

00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:52.039
though,

00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:53.760
because we're living in an age where

00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:55.342
people move, at least here in the US,

00:35:55.362 --> 00:35:56.302
I don't know about other countries,

00:35:56.663 --> 00:35:57.304
but here in the US,

00:35:57.344 --> 00:36:00.505
people move constantly and we just don't

00:36:00.545 --> 00:36:02.067
change our phone numbers anymore.

00:36:02.106 --> 00:36:03.027
Now that we have cell phones,

00:36:03.068 --> 00:36:04.449
there's no reason to.

00:36:04.969 --> 00:36:06.831
I run into people all the time who

00:36:06.871 --> 00:36:08.431
have local phone numbers,

00:36:08.472 --> 00:36:11.193
who have the next major town over,

00:36:11.313 --> 00:36:13.215
who have other sides of the country.

00:36:14.856 --> 00:36:15.376
I actually...

00:36:16.976 --> 00:36:18.639
I one time just for fun,

00:36:19.059 --> 00:36:20.161
when I first got into privacy,

00:36:20.300 --> 00:36:22.423
I picked a phone number and I purposely

00:36:22.463 --> 00:36:23.585
picked this like tiny,

00:36:23.644 --> 00:36:25.807
tiny little town in Idaho that ninety nine

00:36:25.827 --> 00:36:27.009
point nine percent of you had never heard

00:36:27.068 --> 00:36:27.168
of.

00:36:28.751 --> 00:36:29.652
And I don't know why I did it.

00:36:29.672 --> 00:36:30.492
I think it was just for fun.

00:36:30.532 --> 00:36:31.193
I was like, oh,

00:36:31.253 --> 00:36:33.137
that'll nobody will know where this is

00:36:33.177 --> 00:36:33.436
from.

00:36:33.516 --> 00:36:34.798
Like they can't Google it or anything.

00:36:35.298 --> 00:36:36.179
Um, but anyways,

00:36:36.219 --> 00:36:37.519
I went to like AutoZone and I gave

00:36:37.539 --> 00:36:38.579
the dude the phone number and he's like,

00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:40.320
Oh, you're from that town too.

00:36:40.380 --> 00:36:41.380
And I'm just like, God damn it.

00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:42.800
I just put myself into a hole.

00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:44.420
But anyways, um, yeah,

00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:44.940
but that's what I mean.

00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:46.581
It's like nobody bats an eyelash when you

00:36:46.621 --> 00:36:48.121
come in from any area code,

00:36:48.202 --> 00:36:48.882
any phone number.

00:36:49.382 --> 00:36:52.083
And so I think I get in theory

00:36:52.163 --> 00:36:53.362
where Google's going with this,

00:36:53.742 --> 00:36:55.224
but I feel like that just happens so

00:36:55.324 --> 00:36:57.043
rarely these days that people change phone

00:36:57.063 --> 00:36:57.264
numbers.

00:36:57.284 --> 00:36:57.523
Like they,

00:36:57.603 --> 00:36:59.344
they basically turned into other

00:36:59.405 --> 00:37:00.244
identifiers and

00:37:00.965 --> 00:37:01.726
It's super weird.

00:37:01.786 --> 00:37:02.907
So again,

00:37:02.927 --> 00:37:04.489
I'm not trying to say Google had perfectly

00:37:04.530 --> 00:37:05.271
pure intentions.

00:37:05.391 --> 00:37:06.532
I think both things are real.

00:37:06.594 --> 00:37:07.815
I think it was a convenience thing,

00:37:08.175 --> 00:37:09.077
but also a data thing.

00:37:09.117 --> 00:37:11.320
But it's insane that they would do that

00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:13.103
with multiple accounts because there's so

00:37:13.123 --> 00:37:15.867
many people that have secondary accounts

00:37:16.873 --> 00:37:18.135
that they specifically don't want.

00:37:18.155 --> 00:37:19.036
Like my first thought was like,

00:37:19.115 --> 00:37:19.717
what if you,

00:37:20.177 --> 00:37:21.858
if you have like MDM stuff at work,

00:37:21.898 --> 00:37:22.920
the mobile device management,

00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:24.862
you have a work account on your Google

00:37:24.882 --> 00:37:25.121
phone.

00:37:25.442 --> 00:37:26.402
Is it going to scoop up that phone

00:37:26.443 --> 00:37:26.663
number?

00:37:27.043 --> 00:37:28.204
And then now what happens when I leave

00:37:28.244 --> 00:37:28.625
the company?

00:37:28.724 --> 00:37:29.907
Is it going to be easy for me

00:37:29.947 --> 00:37:30.086
to,

00:37:30.367 --> 00:37:33.409
to like reset my password and get back

00:37:33.429 --> 00:37:34.710
into my work account because my phone

00:37:34.751 --> 00:37:35.572
number's linked there now?

00:37:36.072 --> 00:37:37.514
Like that sounds like a liability to me.

00:37:37.773 --> 00:37:38.295
And yeah,

00:37:38.695 --> 00:37:38.875
Yeah.

00:37:38.934 --> 00:37:39.094
I mean,

00:37:39.114 --> 00:37:40.235
there's people who use all kinds of

00:37:40.275 --> 00:37:41.556
profiles, like content creators, right?

00:37:41.597 --> 00:37:43.157
Like people will make, um,

00:37:43.237 --> 00:37:44.438
if they're smart, which many of them are,

00:37:44.778 --> 00:37:46.480
we'll make a separate YouTube account for

00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.101
their, you know,

00:37:47.141 --> 00:37:48.300
Twitch streaming or their,

00:37:48.722 --> 00:37:50.063
whatever it is they're doing online.

00:37:50.402 --> 00:37:51.163
And it's like, cool.

00:37:51.302 --> 00:37:52.443
Now that phone number is linked.

00:37:52.503 --> 00:37:53.644
And I've, I talked last week,

00:37:53.684 --> 00:37:55.246
I think about how back when I used

00:37:55.266 --> 00:37:56.706
to be a Facebook user, I would like,

00:37:57.146 --> 00:37:58.108
you know, I'd meet a girl,

00:37:58.228 --> 00:37:58.989
I'd text her.

00:37:59.449 --> 00:38:00.750
And then a week later it would be

00:38:00.789 --> 00:38:02.070
like people, you know, on Facebook.

00:38:02.090 --> 00:38:02.951
And I'm like, thanks Facebook.

00:38:02.990 --> 00:38:04.211
Now I feel like I'm stalking this girl.

00:38:04.251 --> 00:38:04.791
I barely know.

00:38:05.213 --> 00:38:06.353
And it just feels like this is going

00:38:06.373 --> 00:38:07.434
to happen all over again.

00:38:07.514 --> 00:38:08.295
So yeah, I don't know.

00:38:09.596 --> 00:38:11.356
Possibly good intentions on Google's end,

00:38:11.396 --> 00:38:14.619
but definitely questionable for the user.

00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:15.641
And I think the number of people who

00:38:15.661 --> 00:38:16.902
will actually benefit from this is

00:38:16.942 --> 00:38:18.543
extremely small compared to the number of

00:38:18.583 --> 00:38:20.585
people who are going to be burned by

00:38:20.646 --> 00:38:20.726
it.

00:38:22.498 --> 00:38:22.938
I think, yeah,

00:38:22.958 --> 00:38:25.838
the only real stuff I have here in

00:38:25.858 --> 00:38:26.500
the notes is like,

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.119
if you have any friends that are using

00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:28.840
stock Android,

00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:30.001
send this to them so they know.

00:38:30.041 --> 00:38:31.342
Like I have several friends that I've sent

00:38:31.362 --> 00:38:32.461
this to and they're like, oh crap,

00:38:32.541 --> 00:38:33.402
I didn't know that, thank you.

00:38:33.443 --> 00:38:35.583
And try to use a de-Googled phone like

00:38:35.603 --> 00:38:36.123
Graphene.

00:38:36.764 --> 00:38:38.063
Maybe you could try using different

00:38:38.083 --> 00:38:38.585
profiles.

00:38:38.644 --> 00:38:39.644
I don't know how well that works on

00:38:39.664 --> 00:38:41.246
a stock Android, but just a thought.

00:38:42.666 --> 00:38:43.786
If anybody has any other thoughts,

00:38:43.827 --> 00:38:44.646
definitely let us know.

00:38:45.086 --> 00:38:47.248
I see a lot of people were chatting

00:38:47.268 --> 00:38:49.228
while I was talking here.

00:38:49.688 --> 00:38:51.849
I recall Google was doing something to

00:38:51.869 --> 00:38:53.648
verify whether an incoming call is spoofed

00:38:53.668 --> 00:38:54.068
to match.

00:38:54.929 --> 00:38:55.969
I don't think this is part of this.

00:38:56.030 --> 00:38:57.289
I think that's something else,

00:38:58.090 --> 00:38:58.751
but I could be wrong.

00:39:00.389 --> 00:39:01.130
Yeah,

00:39:01.150 --> 00:39:02.371
Xander said they're just being annoying.

00:39:05.092 --> 00:39:05.313
Yeah,

00:39:05.432 --> 00:39:07.253
and most online verification stuff is

00:39:07.293 --> 00:39:08.213
completely unnecessary.

00:39:08.614 --> 00:39:08.835
Again,

00:39:08.934 --> 00:39:10.695
I don't think this was like verifying who

00:39:10.735 --> 00:39:11.096
you are.

00:39:11.155 --> 00:39:12.076
I think it was more trying to keep

00:39:12.096 --> 00:39:13.197
your information up to date.

00:39:13.317 --> 00:39:14.858
But yeah, I don't know.

00:39:15.498 --> 00:39:17.619
Do you have any additional thoughts on

00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:18.599
that one, Jordan?

00:39:20.284 --> 00:39:20.505
I mean,

00:39:20.605 --> 00:39:22.166
I read some of the comments on this

00:39:22.266 --> 00:39:23.327
article itself,

00:39:23.588 --> 00:39:26.211
and there was some people that had a

00:39:26.271 --> 00:39:26.992
different opinion.

00:39:27.273 --> 00:39:31.418
So let's try and be a devil's advocate

00:39:31.438 --> 00:39:31.878
or whatever.

00:39:33.219 --> 00:39:35.422
So there was one person in the comments

00:39:35.463 --> 00:39:36.483
of this article, and they said...

00:39:37.213 --> 00:39:39.974
they're grateful for this because they use

00:39:40.054 --> 00:39:43.338
fifteen different Google accounts on a

00:39:43.358 --> 00:39:45.360
daily basis for tech support and volunteer

00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:46.760
organization administration.

00:39:47.501 --> 00:39:50.563
And basically it allows them to log into

00:39:50.583 --> 00:39:53.726
those easily because it adds their phone

00:39:53.746 --> 00:39:54.608
number automatically.

00:39:55.228 --> 00:39:55.949
So, you know,

00:39:56.068 --> 00:39:57.891
I think some people seem to

00:40:00.103 --> 00:40:02.603
have think this is you know a useful

00:40:02.664 --> 00:40:04.344
feature but I think in the in the

00:40:04.364 --> 00:40:06.445
grand scheme of things that is a little

00:40:06.824 --> 00:40:08.025
that is a little that is a little

00:40:08.065 --> 00:40:11.226
wild uh I think things should be done

00:40:11.246 --> 00:40:13.786
with consent right like I think privacy is

00:40:13.907 --> 00:40:16.907
kind of important and you know if you

00:40:16.947 --> 00:40:18.907
didn't know that this was happening and

00:40:18.947 --> 00:40:20.068
you weren't notified that this was

00:40:20.108 --> 00:40:22.289
happening then that's the main concern

00:40:22.329 --> 00:40:24.068
here right like I think if you consented

00:40:24.108 --> 00:40:25.469
to the phone number being added if you

00:40:25.550 --> 00:40:27.710
entered the phone number for the explicit

00:40:27.750 --> 00:40:29.731
purpose of verifying your account and

00:40:30.567 --> 00:40:32.547
security purposes and it asked for that

00:40:33.068 --> 00:40:35.068
and you gave it to google then that's

00:40:35.108 --> 00:40:37.148
fine it's just when you start verifying

00:40:37.188 --> 00:40:39.208
people's phone numbers automatically

00:40:39.248 --> 00:40:42.849
without their consent or giving them a

00:40:42.909 --> 00:40:44.429
prompt to do it but in a way

00:40:44.449 --> 00:40:46.490
that disguises what they're actually

00:40:46.630 --> 00:40:50.311
asking but as far as i'm aware this

00:40:50.431 --> 00:40:53.211
shouldn't be happening automatically so if

00:40:53.231 --> 00:40:55.213
this is like it should at least prompt

00:40:55.253 --> 00:40:58.333
you at some point um that is my

00:40:58.393 --> 00:40:59.653
understanding of this but

00:41:01.143 --> 00:41:02.844
if it's doing it without prompting you,

00:41:02.864 --> 00:41:04.764
then that is kind of a bit of

00:41:04.784 --> 00:41:05.684
an issue, I think.

00:41:07.005 --> 00:41:08.344
And again, it's like one of those things,

00:41:08.364 --> 00:41:10.646
like Nate said, it's creating a social,

00:41:10.905 --> 00:41:13.565
like a social map of your entire life

00:41:14.065 --> 00:41:14.565
because, you know,

00:41:14.585 --> 00:41:16.907
they can see who has your phone number

00:41:16.947 --> 00:41:18.347
in their contacts because they're using

00:41:18.387 --> 00:41:20.867
Google contacts and they can really get

00:41:20.907 --> 00:41:22.268
quite a lot of information about that just

00:41:22.327 --> 00:41:24.367
by having your phone numbers linked to

00:41:24.387 --> 00:41:24.967
your account.

00:41:25.007 --> 00:41:27.608
So it is kind of creepy as well.

00:41:29.128 --> 00:41:30.108
Did you have anything you wanted to add

00:41:30.128 --> 00:41:30.369
though?

00:41:31.724 --> 00:41:32.083
Yeah,

00:41:32.585 --> 00:41:34.545
I'm talking to Oddbite in the supporters

00:41:34.626 --> 00:41:36.788
chat and he also posted it here.

00:41:37.188 --> 00:41:39.570
Apparently disabling this will actually

00:41:39.630 --> 00:41:41.670
like turn off RCS.

00:41:42.652 --> 00:41:44.393
And he seems very confident about that.

00:41:44.452 --> 00:41:47.795
So I would say try it anyways and

00:41:48.695 --> 00:41:49.617
like see what happens.

00:41:49.657 --> 00:41:50.757
But yeah, keep an eye on that.

00:41:50.838 --> 00:41:51.838
He said it could take up to a

00:41:51.918 --> 00:41:54.420
month, but it could disable RCS.

00:41:54.539 --> 00:41:55.320
And if that's true,

00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:57.902
that is incredibly unfortunate.

00:41:58.682 --> 00:41:59.722
Um,

00:41:59.822 --> 00:42:01.503
he says he's a hundred thousand percent

00:42:01.523 --> 00:42:02.103
sure.

00:42:02.164 --> 00:42:04.865
So yeah, that's, that's pretty messed up.

00:42:06.626 --> 00:42:11.148
Um, that is incredibly interesting.

00:42:11.228 --> 00:42:12.889
Thank you for sharing.

00:42:12.989 --> 00:42:14.228
I'm reading the screenshot here in the

00:42:14.289 --> 00:42:14.730
article.

00:42:15.329 --> 00:42:16.610
Google will periodically obtain your

00:42:16.630 --> 00:42:18.150
number from your operator by exchanging

00:42:18.170 --> 00:42:18.751
device info,

00:42:18.771 --> 00:42:20.291
such as your SIM card identifier to enable

00:42:20.331 --> 00:42:21.311
Google services.

00:42:22.353 --> 00:42:25.333
Um, yeah, so quite possibly, man, that is.

00:42:26.135 --> 00:42:28.856
Man, that's messed up.

00:42:30.257 --> 00:42:30.498
Yeah.

00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:33.420
Universe Middle Production says,

00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:34.581
I'm tired of getting scam calls.

00:42:34.601 --> 00:42:35.322
They should be illegal.

00:42:35.623 --> 00:42:36.983
They are illegal, fun fact.

00:42:37.884 --> 00:42:38.744
They're a crime, but...

00:42:41.762 --> 00:42:43.442
I should write a post about how to

00:42:43.461 --> 00:42:44.121
get rid of scam call.

00:42:44.141 --> 00:42:44.983
Cause I never get any.

00:42:45.443 --> 00:42:46.603
And it used to actually frustrate me in

00:42:46.623 --> 00:42:47.103
my last job.

00:42:47.123 --> 00:42:48.143
Cause my coworkers, you know,

00:42:48.163 --> 00:42:49.302
we'd be somewhere like somebody would get

00:42:49.322 --> 00:42:50.123
a scam call or whatever.

00:42:50.744 --> 00:42:51.264
And, uh,

00:42:51.284 --> 00:42:52.643
they'd hang up and they'd be like, Oh,

00:42:52.664 --> 00:42:53.344
you should talk to Nate.

00:42:53.384 --> 00:42:54.483
Nate never gets spam calls.

00:42:54.903 --> 00:42:55.985
And I'd always be so mad because I'm

00:42:56.005 --> 00:42:57.565
like, dude, it's not one thing though.

00:42:57.585 --> 00:42:59.085
It's not like I just downloaded an app

00:42:59.144 --> 00:42:59.744
and they went away.

00:42:59.784 --> 00:43:00.045
It's like,

00:43:00.485 --> 00:43:02.045
it took some time and there's like a

00:43:02.206 --> 00:43:03.485
system and a lifestyle,

00:43:03.525 --> 00:43:05.666
but like I could totally, um,

00:43:05.746 --> 00:43:06.806
I could totally write a blog about that

00:43:06.846 --> 00:43:07.246
or something.

00:43:07.385 --> 00:43:08.666
It feels like something we should talk

00:43:08.686 --> 00:43:08.867
about.

00:43:09.827 --> 00:43:10.047
Um,

00:43:10.722 --> 00:43:12.744
Xander says it didn't disable RCS for you.

00:43:12.804 --> 00:43:14.085
So yeah, like I said, I mean,

00:43:14.204 --> 00:43:15.425
I would recommend trying to disable it

00:43:15.445 --> 00:43:15.786
anyways.

00:43:15.826 --> 00:43:16.766
But just keep an eye on that,

00:43:16.945 --> 00:43:19.027
that it could potentially disable RCS.

00:43:19.086 --> 00:43:21.588
So that is what our resident Android

00:43:21.608 --> 00:43:22.329
expert is telling us.

00:43:22.509 --> 00:43:25.231
But anyways, if that's all you've got,

00:43:25.271 --> 00:43:26.650
I think we'll move on to our next

00:43:26.831 --> 00:43:27.652
forum update.

00:43:28.826 --> 00:43:29.306
Alrighty.

00:43:29.786 --> 00:43:32.329
So our next forum discussion was inspired

00:43:32.349 --> 00:43:33.949
by a Substack post that you guys may

00:43:33.969 --> 00:43:35.150
have seen making the rounds,

00:43:35.190 --> 00:43:36.271
which is why we're discussing it.

00:43:36.813 --> 00:43:38.893
And it's titled, Passkeys are a trap.

00:43:39.094 --> 00:43:40.054
Do not use them.

00:43:41.717 --> 00:43:44.137
So this is a post, again from Substack,

00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:46.880
that no offense to the author,

00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:47.800
this is coming from me.

00:43:48.101 --> 00:43:49.563
You need to trim it down or break

00:43:49.583 --> 00:43:50.844
it up into parts or something.

00:43:50.943 --> 00:43:52.425
It is way, way too long.

00:43:53.505 --> 00:43:54.686
I tried to read the whole thing.

00:43:54.927 --> 00:43:57.048
And yeah, again, that's coming from me.

00:43:57.188 --> 00:43:57.769
I'm long-winded.

00:43:58.557 --> 00:43:59.500
But anyways,

00:44:00.561 --> 00:44:02.425
they basically have this claim that

00:44:02.487 --> 00:44:04.851
Passkeys will eventually become

00:44:04.891 --> 00:44:06.014
inshittified by big tech,

00:44:06.034 --> 00:44:07.838
and that's like the basic summary of it.

00:44:09.789 --> 00:44:11.411
Someone posted this to the Privacy Guides

00:44:11.431 --> 00:44:13.771
Forum and asked for everyone to fact check

00:44:13.791 --> 00:44:14.431
it and weigh in.

00:44:15.032 --> 00:44:16.532
And so the general consensus here,

00:44:16.733 --> 00:44:17.853
how many replies we had?

00:44:17.873 --> 00:44:19.293
We've had twenty two replies in the last

00:44:19.333 --> 00:44:19.735
three days.

00:44:19.755 --> 00:44:20.815
So a good number of people have weighed

00:44:20.875 --> 00:44:20.994
in.

00:44:21.976 --> 00:44:23.936
The general consensus from what I've seen

00:44:24.056 --> 00:44:26.237
is that people say that there is a

00:44:26.277 --> 00:44:27.378
lot of information in there that is

00:44:27.518 --> 00:44:28.438
technically correct.

00:44:29.498 --> 00:44:30.780
um and in fact some people even said

00:44:30.820 --> 00:44:31.842
like oh i learned a couple of things

00:44:31.882 --> 00:44:33.563
about pass keys that i didn't know but

00:44:33.583 --> 00:44:35.304
at the same time everybody seems to agree

00:44:35.324 --> 00:44:39.148
that this post is very um conspiratorial

00:44:39.248 --> 00:44:42.931
like it's it's very um you know someday

00:44:42.972 --> 00:44:45.875
this might happen and and this could

00:44:45.914 --> 00:44:47.896
happen and this is technically possible

00:44:48.376 --> 00:44:50.018
but a lot of people are also saying

00:44:50.059 --> 00:44:52.041
like yeah but it wouldn't really like hold

00:44:52.101 --> 00:44:53.242
on let me find one there was one

00:44:53.262 --> 00:44:54.103
that i thought was um

00:44:55.882 --> 00:44:57.405
So on first reading,

00:44:57.425 --> 00:44:58.628
it sounds like saying don't use web

00:44:58.648 --> 00:45:00.190
browsers because some websites might

00:45:00.210 --> 00:45:01.773
require one specific browser and you

00:45:01.813 --> 00:45:03.416
shouldn't be forced to use software you

00:45:03.456 --> 00:45:05.318
haven't chosen.

00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:07.322
So, you know, it's very...

00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:10.820
know like i get where they're coming from

00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:11.822
and i don't want to like brush this

00:45:11.862 --> 00:45:13.262
person off and and say that they're wrong

00:45:13.282 --> 00:45:15.125
especially when i personally am not uh

00:45:15.144 --> 00:45:17.947
technically qualified to be um saying that

00:45:17.987 --> 00:45:19.268
but these are what other people are saying

00:45:19.628 --> 00:45:21.010
some people point out that uh you know

00:45:21.030 --> 00:45:24.614
this this author mentions that like oh is

00:45:24.653 --> 00:45:26.195
made up of all these tech companies like

00:45:26.215 --> 00:45:27.936
google for example i know google is one

00:45:27.956 --> 00:45:29.438
of them for sure and people are like

00:45:29.458 --> 00:45:30.898
yeah but it also has like bit warden

00:45:30.958 --> 00:45:32.561
and mozilla and one password

00:45:34.242 --> 00:45:35.742
organizations who would never allow this

00:45:35.762 --> 00:45:36.242
to happen.

00:45:36.802 --> 00:45:37.983
And big tech is not,

00:45:38.043 --> 00:45:40.023
from what I understand, steering FIDO.

00:45:40.103 --> 00:45:43.344
It is relatively democratic in that sense.

00:45:44.605 --> 00:45:46.085
One person actually linked to a rebuttal

00:45:46.286 --> 00:45:47.847
from someone on Mastodon who actually

00:45:47.927 --> 00:45:50.327
works with the standards group at Apple,

00:45:50.407 --> 00:45:50.788
I believe.

00:45:51.788 --> 00:45:52.967
And they were basically like, yeah,

00:45:52.987 --> 00:45:54.148
this is completely ridiculous.

00:45:54.188 --> 00:45:55.668
This is not going to happen.

00:45:56.869 --> 00:45:58.449
And one kind of annoyed me is like,

00:45:58.831 --> 00:45:59.630
they didn't even...

00:46:00.998 --> 00:46:01.860
From what I saw, again,

00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:03.340
it was way too much to...

00:46:05.561 --> 00:46:06.003
I have a job.

00:46:06.023 --> 00:46:08.505
I'm not trying to be too snarky.

00:46:08.545 --> 00:46:10.806
But from what I saw,

00:46:10.865 --> 00:46:12.967
they didn't make any mention of what

00:46:13.027 --> 00:46:14.829
passkeys are supposed to do and what are

00:46:14.889 --> 00:46:15.769
any better solutions.

00:46:15.789 --> 00:46:16.990
They're basically just like, well,

00:46:17.030 --> 00:46:18.811
we have passwords and we have TOTP and

00:46:18.831 --> 00:46:19.271
that's fine.

00:46:19.693 --> 00:46:22.235
And it's like, okay, but TOTP is fishable.

00:46:23.014 --> 00:46:24.356
which is what pass keys are supposed to

00:46:24.396 --> 00:46:24.695
stop.

00:46:25.195 --> 00:46:26.956
Most people don't use TOTP.

00:46:27.637 --> 00:46:29.677
I don't know the exact statistics.

00:46:29.717 --> 00:46:30.398
I forgot to look it up,

00:46:30.458 --> 00:46:32.378
but I know most people don't use a

00:46:32.418 --> 00:46:33.039
password manager.

00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:34.079
So I'm willing to bet the number of

00:46:34.099 --> 00:46:35.559
people using TOTP is even lower.

00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:37.159
And then on top of it,

00:46:37.820 --> 00:46:40.041
like that was the original design behind

00:46:40.081 --> 00:46:41.181
pass keys is like, again,

00:46:41.222 --> 00:46:42.682
most people don't use a password manager.

00:46:43.003 --> 00:46:44.623
So they're reusing the same garbage

00:46:44.663 --> 00:46:46.023
password everywhere they go.

00:46:46.844 --> 00:46:48.344
And that's what pass keys were designed to

00:46:48.385 --> 00:46:48.664
fix.

00:46:48.945 --> 00:46:51.126
So I respect this idea that the author

00:46:51.186 --> 00:46:51.545
is like,

00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:52.760
Hey,

00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:54.161
I'm worried that these could be abused

00:46:54.181 --> 00:46:55.360
someday, but it's like, okay,

00:46:55.460 --> 00:46:56.382
and what's your solution?

00:46:56.422 --> 00:46:58.922
Just keep going with this god-awful state

00:46:58.943 --> 00:47:00.304
of affairs that we currently have?

00:47:00.503 --> 00:47:01.184
Like, I don't know.

00:47:01.244 --> 00:47:02.864
So, yeah,

00:47:02.925 --> 00:47:04.326
I think we really just wanted to bring

00:47:04.346 --> 00:47:04.945
this up because, again,

00:47:04.985 --> 00:47:06.547
this post has been making the rounds.

00:47:07.126 --> 00:47:09.288
And this is, again, from the community,

00:47:09.708 --> 00:47:10.708
a lot of people weighing in.

00:47:10.728 --> 00:47:10.949
Like,

00:47:11.548 --> 00:47:13.489
it seems to be a technically informed

00:47:13.510 --> 00:47:14.610
piece, but if I'm being kind,

00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:15.891
I'd call it a bit of speculation at

00:47:15.931 --> 00:47:16.251
best.

00:47:18.835 --> 00:47:19.876
Uh, it's misleading.

00:47:19.976 --> 00:47:22.016
I can see times where at the same

00:47:22.036 --> 00:47:23.297
time I can see where it comes from

00:47:23.336 --> 00:47:24.478
their edge cases.

00:47:25.077 --> 00:47:25.697
So yeah,

00:47:25.818 --> 00:47:27.139
if any of you have seen this post

00:47:27.179 --> 00:47:28.679
and you've also been wondering like, okay,

00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:29.840
what are the arguments against it?

00:47:30.501 --> 00:47:31.701
I would tell you to go through here.

00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:35.222
Cause a lot of them are, um, sorry,

00:47:35.242 --> 00:47:35.762
I'll wrap up here.

00:47:35.802 --> 00:47:36.864
A lot of them are there.

00:47:36.943 --> 00:47:38.465
They're not like attacking the author.

00:47:38.505 --> 00:47:39.664
They are attacking the argument,

00:47:39.684 --> 00:47:40.405
which is really nice.

00:47:40.585 --> 00:47:43.246
So yeah, I think, uh,

00:47:44.615 --> 00:47:45.235
I think that's all I got.

00:47:45.436 --> 00:47:46.597
Do you have any thoughts on this post,

00:47:46.777 --> 00:47:51.300
Jordan, with your new haircut?

00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:51.902
Yeah, thanks.

00:47:52.842 --> 00:47:55.043
I think the main issue that I have

00:47:55.063 --> 00:47:55.583
with this post,

00:47:55.643 --> 00:47:56.945
I've been really busy this week,

00:47:56.965 --> 00:47:58.606
so I've not had time to read this

00:47:59.407 --> 00:48:00.907
absolute monster of a post.

00:48:00.989 --> 00:48:02.068
I really genuinely think...

00:48:04.213 --> 00:48:05.634
Get down the arguments that you're wanting

00:48:05.653 --> 00:48:09.193
to make and make it smaller because there

00:48:09.213 --> 00:48:10.875
is a lot here and there is a

00:48:10.934 --> 00:48:12.894
lot of stuff that is, in my opinion,

00:48:13.195 --> 00:48:13.916
unnecessary.

00:48:14.695 --> 00:48:16.536
So try maybe next post that you make,

00:48:16.675 --> 00:48:18.376
try and make it a bit briefer.

00:48:18.856 --> 00:48:21.757
But my understanding is this is mostly

00:48:21.797 --> 00:48:25.197
about the attested versus non-attested

00:48:25.237 --> 00:48:27.998
pass keys, which is...

00:48:29.521 --> 00:48:31.706
as far as I know, an issue,

00:48:31.827 --> 00:48:33.931
but it's not something that we're dealing

00:48:33.951 --> 00:48:34.612
with currently.

00:48:34.753 --> 00:48:36.416
So I'm not really, it's kind of,

00:48:36.496 --> 00:48:37.177
as like Nate said,

00:48:37.217 --> 00:48:38.619
it's like a speculatory thing.

00:48:39.322 --> 00:48:39.442
Um,

00:48:40.503 --> 00:48:41.342
I'm not really sure.

00:48:42.083 --> 00:48:44.045
I haven't really had time to read through

00:48:44.065 --> 00:48:44.684
this whole post,

00:48:44.764 --> 00:48:46.346
if I'm being completely honest.

00:48:47.286 --> 00:48:48.567
So I don't really have too much to

00:48:48.606 --> 00:48:49.688
add in that respect.

00:48:49.788 --> 00:48:51.949
But I think there's definitely like this

00:48:51.989 --> 00:48:53.969
was discussed quite at length on our

00:48:54.010 --> 00:48:54.409
forum.

00:48:55.090 --> 00:48:56.811
And there was a really good post from

00:48:57.172 --> 00:48:59.853
Nathaniel, who kind of did like a whole,

00:49:00.954 --> 00:49:01.193
I guess,

00:49:01.273 --> 00:49:02.675
debunking or like at least

00:49:04.018 --> 00:49:06.041
explainer of some of the things that are

00:49:06.081 --> 00:49:07.043
wrong in this post,

00:49:07.905 --> 00:49:08.945
which I thought was really good,

00:49:09.967 --> 00:49:11.989
but I really haven't had time to dive

00:49:12.030 --> 00:49:14.313
deeper than just reading through some of

00:49:14.373 --> 00:49:16.657
the comments on our forum, unfortunately,

00:49:16.677 --> 00:49:16.836
which...

00:49:18.786 --> 00:49:20.626
It's definitely a hotly debated thing.

00:49:20.688 --> 00:49:22.088
I think the main thing that people need

00:49:22.128 --> 00:49:23.369
to know about pass keys though,

00:49:23.409 --> 00:49:26.172
which I think I still see people like

00:49:26.311 --> 00:49:28.833
misunderstanding this to this very day is

00:49:28.873 --> 00:49:31.115
that websites don't get access to your

00:49:31.135 --> 00:49:31.655
fingerprint.

00:49:32.036 --> 00:49:33.478
They don't get access to your biometric

00:49:33.498 --> 00:49:35.438
information that happens on your device.

00:49:35.539 --> 00:49:38.240
Like just please, there's,

00:49:38.300 --> 00:49:39.682
there is some misinformation going on

00:49:39.722 --> 00:49:40.702
around about that.

00:49:41.224 --> 00:49:42.405
It's, that is not what,

00:49:42.485 --> 00:49:43.945
that's not how pass keys work.

00:49:44.326 --> 00:49:44.465
Um,

00:49:45.606 --> 00:49:47.407
that's that's not how that works that's

00:49:47.467 --> 00:49:49.907
done on your device so um that's like

00:49:49.927 --> 00:49:54.829
the main thing we definitely have some

00:49:55.248 --> 00:49:57.989
information about passkeys i know jonah

00:49:58.009 --> 00:50:00.929
did a video pretty i feel like it's

00:50:00.949 --> 00:50:02.429
probably three years ago at this point

00:50:02.449 --> 00:50:06.590
maybe maybe more even um that was quite

00:50:06.630 --> 00:50:08.650
good about passkeys so it's worth checking

00:50:08.670 --> 00:50:10.952
out that maybe but there's plenty of like

00:50:10.972 --> 00:50:11.211
you know

00:50:12.152 --> 00:50:13.452
discussion about this on the forum.

00:50:13.532 --> 00:50:15.012
So if you're curious and you're not sure

00:50:15.032 --> 00:50:15.373
about it,

00:50:16.273 --> 00:50:17.293
I think it's one of these things where

00:50:17.313 --> 00:50:18.655
you need to take things with a pretty

00:50:18.695 --> 00:50:22.096
big grain of salt and hear everyone's

00:50:22.115 --> 00:50:24.496
opinion on things first before diving into

00:50:24.516 --> 00:50:25.657
it.

00:50:26.677 --> 00:50:27.257
At the end of the day,

00:50:27.297 --> 00:50:29.599
this is just a random person writing a

00:50:29.838 --> 00:50:30.918
post on Substack.

00:50:31.418 --> 00:50:34.501
So take that with what you will, right?

00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:36.701
But yeah,

00:50:36.721 --> 00:50:37.822
we did get a comment here from

00:50:38.695 --> 00:50:40.996
lucas trauman saying that they like my

00:50:41.056 --> 00:50:45.239
haircut yeah um kind of a kind of

00:50:45.259 --> 00:50:47.559
a running joke now um i just got

00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:49.601
here i'll have to go back and listen

00:50:49.621 --> 00:50:51.222
to the first fifty minutes yeah it'll be

00:50:51.302 --> 00:50:53.503
available on podcast platforms afterwards

00:50:53.543 --> 00:50:55.505
as well if you wanna check it out

00:50:55.545 --> 00:50:57.806
there as well so yeah i guess we

00:50:57.827 --> 00:51:00.768
can jump into the next story here unless

00:51:00.827 --> 00:51:03.230
you have any more thoughts

00:51:04.418 --> 00:51:05.860
Yeah, I'll just add one thing real quick.

00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:07.400
In addition to Jonah's video,

00:51:07.579 --> 00:51:08.840
it's a little bit older now.

00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:10.501
It's three years old, actually,

00:51:10.601 --> 00:51:11.201
as of this month.

00:51:11.621 --> 00:51:12.681
But EFF,

00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:14.422
if you just type in EFF passkeys in

00:51:14.442 --> 00:51:15.382
your search engine of choice,

00:51:15.722 --> 00:51:18.003
EFF has a two-parter on passkeys that I

00:51:18.023 --> 00:51:19.242
thought was really awesome.

00:51:20.103 --> 00:51:21.903
And I guess we'd have to see how

00:51:21.923 --> 00:51:23.003
well the information holds up.

00:51:23.083 --> 00:51:23.264
But

00:51:23.764 --> 00:51:25.726
It explained the first part is what the

00:51:25.746 --> 00:51:26.565
heck is a passkey?

00:51:26.945 --> 00:51:27.867
And then the second part is called

00:51:27.907 --> 00:51:28.867
passkeys and privacy.

00:51:28.967 --> 00:51:32.170
And it explains if you're concerned about

00:51:32.210 --> 00:51:32.730
your privacy,

00:51:32.811 --> 00:51:33.871
when does it make sense to use a

00:51:33.891 --> 00:51:35.172
passkey and when doesn't it?

00:51:35.713 --> 00:51:37.534
And I found that really enlightening.

00:51:37.594 --> 00:51:39.135
So yeah, in addition to Jonah's video,

00:51:39.255 --> 00:51:40.596
I would recommend checking that out.

00:51:40.635 --> 00:51:42.336
But yeah, with that,

00:51:42.356 --> 00:51:43.538
we can move into our next story.

00:51:44.581 --> 00:51:45.222
All right, sweet.

00:51:45.242 --> 00:51:46.523
Yeah, that is good advice.

00:51:46.563 --> 00:51:46.882
But yeah,

00:51:46.902 --> 00:51:49.144
we can jump into this story from Wired.

00:51:49.204 --> 00:51:50.746
So nightmare scenario,

00:51:51.206 --> 00:51:54.668
zero-click spyware is infecting phones via

00:51:55.027 --> 00:51:56.148
targeted ads.

00:51:56.329 --> 00:51:57.909
During twenty twenty four and twenty

00:51:57.929 --> 00:51:58.550
twenty five,

00:51:58.811 --> 00:52:00.911
Citizen Lab concluded that forty five

00:52:00.952 --> 00:52:03.233
devices belonging to the newsletter Al

00:52:03.253 --> 00:52:05.454
Jazeera were targeted with zero-click

00:52:05.474 --> 00:52:07.615
attacks delivered by ads.

00:52:07.715 --> 00:52:09.496
The researchers say that the targeted ads

00:52:09.797 --> 00:52:11.539
were issued by Israeli founded

00:52:12.518 --> 00:52:14.800
marketing firm Discover Tech and

00:52:14.820 --> 00:52:17.143
distributed spyware attributed to the

00:52:17.184 --> 00:52:19.365
Israeli developer Kandaroo.

00:52:19.945 --> 00:52:22.288
Infected devices had contact with domains

00:52:22.367 --> 00:52:24.971
linked to Discover Tech and then connected

00:52:25.010 --> 00:52:26.672
to infrastructure associated with

00:52:26.811 --> 00:52:27.393
Kandaroo,

00:52:27.452 --> 00:52:30.596
according to Citizen Labs analysis.

00:52:31.277 --> 00:52:33.617
The situation is so concerning, he notes,

00:52:33.677 --> 00:52:35.418
because there isn't much that people can

00:52:35.438 --> 00:52:37.579
do to protect themselves from zero-click

00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:40.181
ad attacks other than blocking ads as

00:52:40.260 --> 00:52:43.563
thoroughly as possible on all websites and

00:52:43.623 --> 00:52:44.322
platforms.

00:52:45.123 --> 00:52:46.244
It goes back to that thing that we

00:52:46.264 --> 00:52:47.425
kind of joke about a little bit,

00:52:47.485 --> 00:52:49.425
but ad blockers are kind of a security

00:52:49.465 --> 00:52:50.226
tool at this point.

00:52:51.045 --> 00:52:52.847
The ability to push individualized

00:52:53.027 --> 00:52:53.987
arbitrary content

00:52:54.547 --> 00:52:56.728
at specific users is a hallmark of the

00:52:56.829 --> 00:52:59.170
modern online ads ecosystem and is

00:52:59.210 --> 00:53:01.572
perfectly suited to the mercenary spyware

00:53:01.692 --> 00:53:02.192
industry.

00:53:03.632 --> 00:53:05.753
Until this architecture changes or ad

00:53:05.793 --> 00:53:07.994
companies get serious about customer

00:53:08.074 --> 00:53:08.434
vetting,

00:53:08.775 --> 00:53:11.157
we're going to keep seeing this kind of

00:53:11.237 --> 00:53:11.737
abuse.

00:53:13.208 --> 00:53:15.150
Often when you see ads online or in

00:53:15.250 --> 00:53:15.530
apps,

00:53:15.909 --> 00:53:18.012
they're displayed following a complex

00:53:18.431 --> 00:53:20.253
process known as real-time bidding,

00:53:20.313 --> 00:53:22.275
essentially an automated auction where

00:53:22.315 --> 00:53:24.356
advertisers place bids to show you

00:53:24.396 --> 00:53:25.217
specific ads.

00:53:25.318 --> 00:53:27.920
The millisecond long process can result in

00:53:28.019 --> 00:53:30.641
advertisers collecting huge volumes of

00:53:30.681 --> 00:53:33.043
data about your device, your location,

00:53:33.244 --> 00:53:34.164
your browsing history,

00:53:34.284 --> 00:53:36.146
plus a whole lot more.

00:53:36.467 --> 00:53:38.369
The process has been a privacy nightmare

00:53:38.409 --> 00:53:40.369
for years with murky data brokers selling

00:53:40.409 --> 00:53:41.952
people's personal information

00:53:42.552 --> 00:53:45.313
and law enforcement agencies and hostile

00:53:45.353 --> 00:53:47.934
nations buying it to track or target

00:53:47.974 --> 00:53:48.396
people.

00:53:49.076 --> 00:53:51.077
The Citizen Lab researchers say that

00:53:51.137 --> 00:53:53.097
Discover Tech operates an advertising

00:53:53.117 --> 00:53:54.860
platform, Controllium,

00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:57.181
that can allow its users to de-anonymize,

00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:57.981
fingerprint,

00:53:58.521 --> 00:54:02.443
and automatically infect devices once an

00:54:02.543 --> 00:54:03.204
ad appears.

00:54:03.344 --> 00:54:03.724
Overall,

00:54:03.744 --> 00:54:05.826
the researchers estimate that millions of

00:54:05.885 --> 00:54:08.168
devices were directed to Kandaroo's

00:54:08.208 --> 00:54:08.628
servers,

00:54:09.110 --> 00:54:11.130
where they could be profiled.

00:54:11.291 --> 00:54:15.094
By analyzing ad bidding records,

00:54:15.134 --> 00:54:17.795
they were publicly exposed on the Discover

00:54:17.855 --> 00:54:18.715
Tech website.

00:54:18.795 --> 00:54:21.177
The Citizen Lab researchers say ads linked

00:54:21.217 --> 00:54:24.418
to the firm with attacker script tags were

00:54:24.458 --> 00:54:27.001
shown in more than seventy thousand mobile

00:54:27.141 --> 00:54:29.001
apps and more than one hundred and twenty

00:54:29.041 --> 00:54:31.523
thousand websites between March and June

00:54:31.704 --> 00:54:32.403
this year.

00:54:32.804 --> 00:54:34.445
Multiple apps, the researcher says,

00:54:34.744 --> 00:54:37.266
displayed more than a million ads linked

00:54:37.427 --> 00:54:38.867
to Discover Tech.

00:54:40.164 --> 00:54:42.507
The firm's ads weren't all necessarily

00:54:43.047 --> 00:54:45.409
weaponized to potentially distribute

00:54:45.469 --> 00:54:45.989
spyware,

00:54:46.349 --> 00:54:48.311
but the researchers say that in general,

00:54:48.791 --> 00:54:51.554
they have seen DiscoverTech ad impressions

00:54:51.934 --> 00:54:53.896
on government and national security linked

00:54:54.056 --> 00:54:55.918
networks around the world.

00:54:56.018 --> 00:54:58.860
These include NATO and United Nations

00:54:58.920 --> 00:54:59.501
networks,

00:55:00.021 --> 00:55:01.822
as well as lawmaking bodies in Europe,

00:55:02.163 --> 00:55:04.025
critical infrastructure providers in

00:55:04.085 --> 00:55:04.605
Australia,

00:55:04.945 --> 00:55:07.226
plus armed forces and government agencies

00:55:07.347 --> 00:55:08.728
in Norway and Sweden.

00:55:09.228 --> 00:55:12.010
previous zero-click targeted ad campaigns

00:55:12.050 --> 00:55:14.931
that distributed spyware have rarely

00:55:15.030 --> 00:55:16.012
surfaced publicly,

00:55:16.152 --> 00:55:18.693
but the Citizen Lab researchers say that

00:55:18.733 --> 00:55:21.273
this is likely a symptom of ad

00:55:21.333 --> 00:55:23.755
infrastructure being so extensively

00:55:23.795 --> 00:55:26.255
trusted and incorporated into all aspects

00:55:26.295 --> 00:55:28.476
of digital life without specific

00:55:29.257 --> 00:55:29.737
oversight.

00:55:30.873 --> 00:55:31.134
Wow.

00:55:32.715 --> 00:55:33.896
This is quite a big story.

00:55:35.237 --> 00:55:35.858
I guess, like,

00:55:36.498 --> 00:55:38.501
we kind of assumed that this could be

00:55:38.561 --> 00:55:40.141
done, right, in the past.

00:55:40.181 --> 00:55:41.603
We kind of assumed that, you know,

00:55:41.643 --> 00:55:43.264
malicious ads were a real thing.

00:55:43.746 --> 00:55:45.306
But we've never really seen something

00:55:45.527 --> 00:55:45.768
so...

00:55:46.547 --> 00:55:48.307
sinister right where something could

00:55:48.929 --> 00:55:51.028
legitimately compromise the device without

00:55:51.128 --> 00:55:54.489
any sort of interaction from a user um

00:55:54.550 --> 00:55:57.409
i guess throwing this back to you nate

00:55:58.130 --> 00:56:00.831
uh like this is kind of like pretty

00:56:00.851 --> 00:56:02.471
concerning stuff because this is something

00:56:02.510 --> 00:56:04.711
that you know seems to be at least

00:56:05.791 --> 00:56:09.313
deployed at mass scale um what can people

00:56:09.373 --> 00:56:10.813
do like what do you what are your

00:56:10.853 --> 00:56:11.492
what are your thoughts

00:56:13.021 --> 00:56:13.402
Yeah,

00:56:14.583 --> 00:56:15.485
so one of the first things I want

00:56:15.505 --> 00:56:19.311
to say is that every time there's like

00:56:19.391 --> 00:56:21.155
a big malware story that goes around,

00:56:21.175 --> 00:56:22.657
like I remember when Pegasus first made

00:56:22.677 --> 00:56:24.461
the headlines, people were just like,

00:56:24.541 --> 00:56:24.882
oh my God,

00:56:24.902 --> 00:56:25.943
how do I check if I'm infected?

00:56:26.929 --> 00:56:27.608
If you're watching this,

00:56:27.648 --> 00:56:29.170
you are probably not infected.

00:56:29.451 --> 00:56:30.751
And that goes for me,

00:56:30.811 --> 00:56:33.813
that goes for probably Jonah, maybe Jonah,

00:56:33.932 --> 00:56:34.213
I don't know.

00:56:34.614 --> 00:56:35.733
But I think most of us,

00:56:35.773 --> 00:56:37.215
like this is state level malware.

00:56:37.275 --> 00:56:39.115
They're targeting like investigative

00:56:39.135 --> 00:56:39.597
journalists.

00:56:39.856 --> 00:56:41.597
They're targeting like high profile

00:56:41.657 --> 00:56:41.958
activists,

00:56:41.978 --> 00:56:43.298
people like Greta Thunberg level,

00:56:43.938 --> 00:56:44.760
whether you like her or not.

00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:47.081
They're not talking about the people who

00:56:47.121 --> 00:56:48.702
are just randomly posting memes on

00:56:48.742 --> 00:56:49.422
Discord.

00:56:49.682 --> 00:56:51.804
They're not going to use state-level

00:56:51.824 --> 00:56:52.445
malware on you.

00:56:52.726 --> 00:56:54.067
Because especially these days,

00:56:54.086 --> 00:56:56.309
there's been more attention paid to

00:56:56.329 --> 00:56:56.768
spyware.

00:56:57.429 --> 00:56:58.791
Every time they deploy this thing,

00:56:58.831 --> 00:56:59.871
there's a risk of getting caught.

00:57:00.512 --> 00:57:02.554
And they pay literally millions of dollars

00:57:02.594 --> 00:57:03.815
for these zero-day exploits.

00:57:04.235 --> 00:57:05.757
So when they do this,

00:57:05.836 --> 00:57:06.757
they need to make sure...

00:57:07.478 --> 00:57:08.958
We have to make sure the intelligence that

00:57:08.978 --> 00:57:09.639
we're getting from this...

00:57:10.039 --> 00:57:12.001
is going to benefit or is going to

00:57:12.121 --> 00:57:13.922
outweigh like if we get burned and we

00:57:13.943 --> 00:57:14.963
get caught deploying this.

00:57:15.003 --> 00:57:17.385
So I just want to,

00:57:17.485 --> 00:57:18.846
I say that to reassure people because I

00:57:18.865 --> 00:57:19.746
know a lot of people, again,

00:57:19.786 --> 00:57:20.728
like they freak out and they're like,

00:57:21.068 --> 00:57:21.367
oh my God,

00:57:21.427 --> 00:57:22.449
how do I check if I have Pegasus?

00:57:22.469 --> 00:57:23.710
And the answer is you probably don't

00:57:24.170 --> 00:57:27.492
unless you're like covering the, you know,

00:57:28.612 --> 00:57:30.233
the cartels in Mexico or something.

00:57:31.195 --> 00:57:33.237
Anyways, that said, yeah, I mean,

00:57:33.577 --> 00:57:34.958
I think the defense against this is ad

00:57:34.978 --> 00:57:37.619
blocking like this ad blocking to me.

00:57:37.900 --> 00:57:38.820
I've been saying this for a couple of

00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:40.402
months now is I feel like ads are

00:57:40.521 --> 00:57:43.664
the least talked about privacy invasion,

00:57:44.425 --> 00:57:46.425
like the biggest privacy invasion in our

00:57:46.465 --> 00:57:47.766
lives that gets talked about the least

00:57:48.648 --> 00:57:51.670
because I meet so many people that I'll

00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:52.411
admit my bias here.

00:57:52.530 --> 00:57:53.090
I hate ads.

00:57:53.251 --> 00:57:53.831
I hate ads.

00:57:53.952 --> 00:57:54.512
I hate ads.

00:57:54.632 --> 00:57:55.233
I hate ads.

00:57:57.204 --> 00:57:57.666
So much.

00:57:57.987 --> 00:57:58.788
I will go...

00:57:59.309 --> 00:58:00.710
I would rather stare at a black screen

00:58:00.751 --> 00:58:02.393
for thirty seconds because my ad blocker

00:58:02.833 --> 00:58:04.978
blocked the ad than see the actual ad.

00:58:05.338 --> 00:58:07.141
Um... That's just me.

00:58:07.262 --> 00:58:08.202
I know some people would get bored.

00:58:08.664 --> 00:58:09.545
So, anyways, um...

00:58:10.927 --> 00:58:12.208
where I'm with that is I run into

00:58:12.228 --> 00:58:13.188
a lot of people who are like, well,

00:58:13.208 --> 00:58:14.688
the app has to make money somehow.

00:58:14.728 --> 00:58:16.590
And like, you know, they're not that bad.

00:58:16.630 --> 00:58:18.030
It's, you know, the example I just gave,

00:58:18.050 --> 00:58:18.811
it's like, well,

00:58:18.911 --> 00:58:20.231
I'd be bored staring at the screen for

00:58:20.291 --> 00:58:20.831
like,

00:58:20.911 --> 00:58:22.931
I'll just sit there in serene silence and

00:58:22.952 --> 00:58:23.351
enjoy it.

00:58:23.992 --> 00:58:25.793
I should probably sit in silence more

00:58:25.833 --> 00:58:26.313
often anyways.

00:58:26.673 --> 00:58:27.054
But, um,

00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:30.342
But the ad, like the article said,

00:58:30.362 --> 00:58:32.786
like the real-time bidding process is so

00:58:32.865 --> 00:58:33.807
incredibly invasive.

00:58:33.887 --> 00:58:34.168
And again,

00:58:34.248 --> 00:58:35.789
EFF has great articles about real-time

00:58:35.809 --> 00:58:36.251
bidding too.

00:58:36.650 --> 00:58:37.231
Basically,

00:58:38.574 --> 00:58:40.195
when there's an ad space on a website

00:58:40.215 --> 00:58:41.077
or an app or whatever,

00:58:41.918 --> 00:58:42.760
it could go to anybody.

00:58:43.199 --> 00:58:44.420
And it's literally like an auction.

00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:44.960
It's like, all right,

00:58:44.981 --> 00:58:46.121
who's willing to pay the most for this?

00:58:46.443 --> 00:58:47.824
And in order for companies to decide how

00:58:47.844 --> 00:58:48.684
much they're willing to pay,

00:58:49.184 --> 00:58:50.925
they have to get a bunch of information

00:58:50.945 --> 00:58:52.467
about you, like your location,

00:58:52.827 --> 00:58:54.068
your device, your this, that,

00:58:54.088 --> 00:58:54.748
your whatever.

00:58:55.068 --> 00:58:56.349
So they can make assumptions about like,

00:58:56.471 --> 00:58:56.550
oh,

00:58:56.570 --> 00:58:58.092
this person has like a brand new iPhone.

00:58:58.351 --> 00:58:59.373
They live in Beverly Hills.

00:58:59.393 --> 00:59:00.333
They probably got a lot of money.

00:59:00.393 --> 00:59:01.554
I'm willing to pay a little extra for

00:59:01.574 --> 00:59:02.434
that ad.

00:59:02.594 --> 00:59:02.815
And-

00:59:04.507 --> 00:59:06.369
This has become a way to spy on

00:59:06.409 --> 00:59:08.570
people because companies get to keep that

00:59:08.610 --> 00:59:09.889
data even if they don't bid.

00:59:10.329 --> 00:59:11.490
And so there are literally – again,

00:59:11.510 --> 00:59:12.190
you can look this up.

00:59:12.490 --> 00:59:14.572
There are literally governments in the

00:59:14.592 --> 00:59:17.452
past have set up shell companies that

00:59:17.572 --> 00:59:18.914
enter the advertising stream,

00:59:18.974 --> 00:59:19.793
and they never bid.

00:59:19.853 --> 00:59:20.893
They just collect the data.

00:59:21.375 --> 00:59:22.954
That's like another way they surveil us.

00:59:23.215 --> 00:59:25.175
So –

00:59:25.396 --> 00:59:27.077
Yeah, and I mean, even putting this aside,

00:59:27.137 --> 00:59:27.617
like, yeah, okay,

00:59:27.637 --> 00:59:28.797
they're probably not going to put

00:59:28.858 --> 00:59:30.057
state-level malware on your phone,

00:59:30.958 --> 00:59:32.219
but they're still collecting your data.

00:59:33.019 --> 00:59:35.360
And there have been plenty of instances of

00:59:35.581 --> 00:59:37.202
regular malware on your phone.

00:59:37.561 --> 00:59:39.063
And as it becomes more economical,

00:59:39.123 --> 00:59:40.523
more criminals will start to do it.

00:59:40.963 --> 00:59:42.344
So, yeah, I mean, to me, like,

00:59:43.324 --> 00:59:44.766
ad blocking is one of the single most

00:59:44.846 --> 00:59:45.326
important things,

00:59:45.405 --> 00:59:46.467
especially if you're starting out in your

00:59:46.507 --> 00:59:47.086
privacy journey.

00:59:47.166 --> 00:59:47.327
Like,

00:59:47.648 --> 00:59:48.807
that's kind of become the thing I've

00:59:48.827 --> 00:59:49.809
started suggesting to people,

00:59:49.909 --> 00:59:51.268
and I think I got this from Henry,

00:59:51.289 --> 00:59:52.510
to be totally honest, back at TechLore.

00:59:53.630 --> 00:59:53.811
Like,

00:59:55.201 --> 00:59:56.240
When people say like, okay,

00:59:56.260 --> 00:59:57.300
what's one thing I can do to start

00:59:57.340 --> 00:59:58.362
taking my privacy seriously?

00:59:58.702 --> 00:59:59.641
Like ad blockers,

00:59:59.681 --> 01:00:01.021
because not only will it protect your

01:00:01.041 --> 01:00:03.302
privacy, it's something they can see.

01:00:03.983 --> 01:00:04.422
And like I said,

01:00:04.463 --> 01:00:06.643
like when people start going to YouTube

01:00:06.663 --> 01:00:08.103
and they don't see as many ads or

01:00:08.402 --> 01:00:09.523
they go to like news sites or some

01:00:09.543 --> 01:00:10.543
of the worst and they don't see an

01:00:10.623 --> 01:00:12.043
ad every like three paragraphs,

01:00:12.063 --> 01:00:13.603
it's just like, oh wow,

01:00:13.643 --> 01:00:15.085
the internet cannot suck.

01:00:15.184 --> 01:00:16.125
This is kind of nice.

01:00:16.525 --> 01:00:17.525
And then they'll come back and be like,

01:00:17.585 --> 01:00:18.244
all right, what else?

01:00:18.565 --> 01:00:20.106
So yeah, sorry.

01:00:20.166 --> 01:00:20.945
I know I really went off on a

01:00:20.985 --> 01:00:21.525
rant there, but...

01:00:22.525 --> 01:00:23.367
I hate ads so much.

01:00:24.909 --> 01:00:25.791
If you're not blocking ads,

01:00:25.891 --> 01:00:27.112
I honestly don't even know how you're

01:00:27.132 --> 01:00:27.914
surviving the internet.

01:00:27.974 --> 01:00:28.355
It's awful.

01:00:31.693 --> 01:00:32.514
Jason's got my back.

01:00:32.534 --> 01:00:34.114
Jason said staring at a blank screen for

01:00:34.135 --> 01:00:35.416
thirty seconds is definitely healthier

01:00:35.436 --> 01:00:36.195
than watching an ad.

01:00:36.295 --> 01:00:37.376
Yeah, I mean, again,

01:00:37.436 --> 01:00:39.797
like there's I'll keep this one quick.

01:00:40.458 --> 01:00:42.818
There's a composer named John Cage who

01:00:42.858 --> 01:00:44.898
wrote a song called for thirty three and

01:00:44.918 --> 01:00:46.659
it is literally four minutes and thirty

01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:47.719
three seconds of silence.

01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:49.940
And that's his whole point is like just

01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:50.782
for four minutes.

01:00:51.121 --> 01:00:54.083
Just sit there and be quiet and just

01:00:54.563 --> 01:00:56.204
listen to the world around you.

01:00:56.384 --> 01:00:57.884
And again, I should do it more myself.

01:00:58.003 --> 01:00:58.525
I really should.

01:00:58.844 --> 01:00:59.005
But.

01:00:59.889 --> 01:01:00.869
There's something to be said for it.

01:01:01.489 --> 01:01:02.570
Anyways, did I miss anything?

01:01:02.590 --> 01:01:04.951
Do you have some additional thoughts?

01:01:04.990 --> 01:01:05.931
Yeah, I think, yeah,

01:01:05.951 --> 01:01:08.032
you kind of covered the major aspects

01:01:08.052 --> 01:01:08.271
there.

01:01:08.311 --> 01:01:09.072
I think, you know,

01:01:09.393 --> 01:01:11.532
definitely use ad block stuff.

01:01:11.572 --> 01:01:13.233
Like we have recommendations on our

01:01:13.273 --> 01:01:15.974
website for content filtering stuff.

01:01:16.875 --> 01:01:20.657
So, you know, uBlock Origin, AdGuard,

01:01:21.157 --> 01:01:21.956
use all these tools.

01:01:21.996 --> 01:01:23.038
But I also think, you know,

01:01:23.597 --> 01:01:24.938
There's definitely something to be said

01:01:24.978 --> 01:01:27.840
for the level of manipulation that ads

01:01:27.900 --> 01:01:30.181
actually can do, you know,

01:01:30.222 --> 01:01:31.143
especially because,

01:01:31.543 --> 01:01:32.704
like this story talked about,

01:01:33.164 --> 01:01:36.266
these are targeted advertisements.

01:01:36.286 --> 01:01:38.447
You know,

01:01:38.748 --> 01:01:40.148
they're collecting a lot of information

01:01:40.168 --> 01:01:41.349
about you and

01:01:41.610 --> 01:01:43.510
about your interests, things like this.

01:01:45.271 --> 01:01:46.891
You know, someone could also use it for,

01:01:47.271 --> 01:01:48.411
not in a way to hack you, but,

01:01:48.512 --> 01:01:49.813
you know, they're hacking your brain,

01:01:49.873 --> 01:01:50.373
basically.

01:01:50.413 --> 01:01:53.114
They're rewiring your brain to basically,

01:01:54.733 --> 01:01:56.474
you know,

01:01:56.494 --> 01:01:58.914
give you thoughts that you wouldn't

01:01:58.994 --> 01:02:00.536
usually have based on, like,

01:02:00.576 --> 01:02:01.476
advertisements, right?

01:02:01.516 --> 01:02:03.476
This is something that we've seen for a

01:02:03.516 --> 01:02:04.077
long time,

01:02:04.277 --> 01:02:05.496
and we've seen that the role that

01:02:05.516 --> 01:02:06.637
advertising plays with this.

01:02:06.737 --> 01:02:07.077
I believe...

01:02:08.621 --> 01:02:10.503
I remember when I was at art school,

01:02:10.563 --> 01:02:12.065
I think one of the recommendations,

01:02:12.105 --> 01:02:13.867
like one of the things that they talked

01:02:13.887 --> 01:02:16.769
about was like using,

01:02:18.411 --> 01:02:20.514
like originally cigarettes were like a

01:02:20.574 --> 01:02:21.233
men's thing.

01:02:21.434 --> 01:02:22.496
It was like, oh, you're a man,

01:02:22.516 --> 01:02:23.456
you smoke cigarettes.

01:02:24.097 --> 01:02:26.057
But then they started doing advertisements

01:02:26.577 --> 01:02:28.338
with women smoking cigarettes.

01:02:28.458 --> 01:02:30.579
And then it became a thing that's also

01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:32.440
quite like, you know, applicable to,

01:02:32.659 --> 01:02:33.740
you know, men and women.

01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:35.561
So it kind of rewired people to think

01:02:36.181 --> 01:02:38.001
something differently about something that

01:02:38.021 --> 01:02:39.342
they already knew about smoking.

01:02:40.123 --> 01:02:42.244
which is kind of much more sinister on

01:02:42.465 --> 01:02:44.286
a much larger societal level because

01:02:44.306 --> 01:02:46.927
people can use this technology for,

01:02:47.108 --> 01:02:48.108
I think you might be able to talk

01:02:48.128 --> 01:02:49.851
a bit more about this because you know

01:02:49.871 --> 01:02:50.291
a bit more,

01:02:50.371 --> 01:02:52.612
but I believe there was the issue with

01:02:52.672 --> 01:02:53.313
Facebook,

01:02:53.653 --> 01:02:55.414
targeting people with political ads and

01:02:55.454 --> 01:02:56.675
all sorts of stuff like that.

01:02:58.797 --> 01:02:59.637
It's very powerful.

01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:01.639
I think ads are

01:03:04.297 --> 01:03:06.018
pretty terrible for the world in general,

01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:07.699
but unfortunately the world kind of

01:03:07.820 --> 01:03:09.340
operates that way and that's how things

01:03:09.380 --> 01:03:10.101
get paid for.

01:03:10.940 --> 01:03:12.782
Someone said freedom sticks.

01:03:12.802 --> 01:03:15.784
Do you want to start with some reference?

01:03:15.824 --> 01:03:17.505
Yeah, that's what you're referring to.

01:03:17.724 --> 01:03:19.105
That was part of the marketing towards

01:03:19.144 --> 01:03:19.425
women.

01:03:19.525 --> 01:03:21.146
I think it was Lucky Strike Cigarettes,

01:03:21.186 --> 01:03:22.086
but don't quote me on that.

01:03:22.586 --> 01:03:24.427
is um they made it and this could

01:03:24.447 --> 01:03:25.608
have been like a world war ii era

01:03:25.628 --> 01:03:27.309
thing but they made it like a like

01:03:27.329 --> 01:03:28.971
a cool like patriot like almost with

01:03:29.010 --> 01:03:30.510
movies you know you look at old movies

01:03:30.550 --> 01:03:31.952
and it's always like the dude in the

01:03:31.992 --> 01:03:34.333
leather jacket who's like really cool and

01:03:34.373 --> 01:03:35.713
doesn't care about anything and he's the

01:03:35.793 --> 01:03:37.454
one smoking a cigarette like that's one of

01:03:37.474 --> 01:03:38.715
the marketing techniques they used is they

01:03:38.755 --> 01:03:40.175
called them freedom sticks and they like

01:03:40.456 --> 01:03:42.898
they made it like this patriotic thing to

01:03:42.938 --> 01:03:45.179
like smoke which is kind of funny because

01:03:45.219 --> 01:03:46.179
now most people uh

01:03:47.099 --> 01:03:48.760
It's uncommon in America to go out in

01:03:48.780 --> 01:03:49.900
public and see people smoking,

01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:51.422
but I remember when I went to Europe,

01:03:51.483 --> 01:03:52.663
I stepped outside the airport and

01:03:52.682 --> 01:03:54.244
immediately cigarette smoke.

01:03:54.724 --> 01:03:56.146
But yeah,

01:03:56.306 --> 01:03:57.347
that's what they were referring to is the

01:03:57.367 --> 01:03:58.447
story you were telling about the

01:03:58.487 --> 01:03:58.827
cigarettes.

01:04:00.309 --> 01:04:00.650
Yeah, no,

01:04:00.909 --> 01:04:01.891
you're a hundred percent correct.

01:04:01.931 --> 01:04:04.253
I mean, oh,

01:04:04.452 --> 01:04:05.853
what was I just thinking of a second

01:04:05.893 --> 01:04:06.054
ago?

01:04:07.963 --> 01:04:08.443
Diamonds.

01:04:08.543 --> 01:04:08.724
I mean,

01:04:08.764 --> 01:04:11.806
diamonds are like the universal story

01:04:11.865 --> 01:04:12.927
about... Diamonds are worthless.

01:04:13.007 --> 01:04:14.228
They're pretty much worth... I mean,

01:04:14.248 --> 01:04:15.849
they do have a few practical applications,

01:04:16.128 --> 01:04:17.750
but diamonds are not in short supply.

01:04:17.829 --> 01:04:19.010
As far as supply and demand goes,

01:04:19.070 --> 01:04:21.072
they are absolutely worthless.

01:04:21.672 --> 01:04:23.012
But literally...

01:04:23.632 --> 01:04:25.094
All the diamond companies in the world

01:04:25.114 --> 01:04:26.934
back in the day got together and they

01:04:26.954 --> 01:04:27.536
were like, hey,

01:04:27.675 --> 01:04:29.797
what if we restrict the supply?

01:04:30.177 --> 01:04:30.978
And then on top of it,

01:04:30.998 --> 01:04:32.478
we run this big marketing campaign that

01:04:32.518 --> 01:04:34.860
tells everybody that diamonds are forever

01:04:34.940 --> 01:04:36.422
and diamonds are a true sign of love

01:04:36.442 --> 01:04:37.623
and diamonds, diamonds, diamonds,

01:04:37.643 --> 01:04:38.003
diamonds.

01:04:38.304 --> 01:04:39.985
And so now you're paying hundreds,

01:04:40.025 --> 01:04:42.786
thousands of dollars for a rock that can

01:04:42.806 --> 01:04:43.827
be picked out of the ground.

01:04:43.847 --> 01:04:44.467
Yeah.

01:04:44.668 --> 01:04:45.768
with very little effort.

01:04:46.028 --> 01:04:47.789
So, um, I mean,

01:04:47.829 --> 01:04:48.791
I don't know about very little effort

01:04:48.831 --> 01:04:49.570
under those diamond mining,

01:04:49.610 --> 01:04:50.192
but you get my point.

01:04:50.211 --> 01:04:50.632
It's like, again,

01:04:50.652 --> 01:04:51.913
they're not in short supply.

01:04:52.032 --> 01:04:54.594
They are objectively worthless in that

01:04:54.635 --> 01:04:55.936
sense, but marketing.

01:04:56.255 --> 01:04:59.257
So, and yeah, um, Facebook there's,

01:04:59.398 --> 01:04:59.657
I mean,

01:04:59.818 --> 01:05:00.958
if you look up the Cambridge Analytica

01:05:00.978 --> 01:05:02.440
scandal, which I,

01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:03.420
I kind of pitched that as an idea

01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:05.362
of video, we should totally make, um,

01:05:05.442 --> 01:05:07.023
at some point soon for those of you

01:05:07.043 --> 01:05:07.523
who don't remember in

01:05:10.405 --> 01:05:12.206
We realized how much data Facebook was

01:05:12.246 --> 01:05:13.507
collecting about us because there was a

01:05:13.548 --> 01:05:15.451
company called Cambridge Analytica that

01:05:15.831 --> 01:05:17.231
found a clever way to get a hold

01:05:17.271 --> 01:05:18.032
of all that data.

01:05:18.554 --> 01:05:20.416
And they were in turn weaponizing that

01:05:20.456 --> 01:05:24.079
data for – what's the word I'm looking

01:05:24.099 --> 01:05:24.280
for?

01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:26.902
For political advertising.

01:05:27.543 --> 01:05:29.885
And personally, I –

01:05:31.237 --> 01:05:32.597
All right, this is a personal take.

01:05:32.978 --> 01:05:33.960
I'm going to rant a little bit here.

01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:36.483
I think it's really arrogant to think that

01:05:36.523 --> 01:05:37.643
propaganda doesn't work on you,

01:05:37.724 --> 01:05:38.525
and that goes for anyone.

01:05:38.545 --> 01:05:39.125
That goes for me.

01:05:39.284 --> 01:05:40.467
I know for a fact that I bought

01:05:40.487 --> 01:05:42.309
some propaganda earlier this week.

01:05:42.329 --> 01:05:44.070
There was something I saw on Mastodon that

01:05:44.090 --> 01:05:45.092
I was like, oh, yeah, that tracks.

01:05:45.152 --> 01:05:45.952
And then a little while later,

01:05:46.012 --> 01:05:46.793
I saw somebody like, yeah,

01:05:46.813 --> 01:05:48.014
there's no evidence for that story.

01:05:48.034 --> 01:05:48.594
That doesn't exist.

01:05:48.635 --> 01:05:50.336
And I'm like, oh, yep, that also tracks.

01:05:50.818 --> 01:05:52.139
So –

01:05:52.338 --> 01:05:52.498
Like,

01:05:52.820 --> 01:05:54.782
I think this whole idea that we know

01:05:54.802 --> 01:05:55.722
there are troll farms.

01:05:56.063 --> 01:05:56.503
We know it.

01:05:56.543 --> 01:05:57.385
We know this is a fact.

01:05:57.965 --> 01:05:59.748
And this whole idea that, like, oh, well,

01:05:59.768 --> 01:06:01.170
I'm too smart to fall for the propaganda.

01:06:02.070 --> 01:06:03.373
So you're too smart to fall for somebody

01:06:03.393 --> 01:06:04.614
who does this forty hours a week,

01:06:04.695 --> 01:06:05.375
eight hours a day,

01:06:05.456 --> 01:06:06.536
and it is their full-time job.

01:06:06.797 --> 01:06:06.998
Like...

01:06:08.456 --> 01:06:09.617
Imagine if somebody said that to you,

01:06:09.637 --> 01:06:10.757
like whatever your job is,

01:06:10.856 --> 01:06:12.617
imagine if somebody came up to you and

01:06:12.637 --> 01:06:14.159
was like, I've never done this job before,

01:06:14.179 --> 01:06:15.440
but I'm better than you at it.

01:06:15.460 --> 01:06:16.840
Like that's the kind of arrogance that has

01:06:16.860 --> 01:06:17.360
to be is like,

01:06:17.701 --> 01:06:19.822
like even the lowest level job and no

01:06:19.842 --> 01:06:20.503
offense to anybody here,

01:06:20.523 --> 01:06:22.043
but like servers at a restaurant,

01:06:23.692 --> 01:06:24.612
I've never been a server.

01:06:24.731 --> 01:06:25.371
And I guarantee you,

01:06:25.411 --> 01:06:26.353
if I went up to a server and

01:06:26.373 --> 01:06:26.612
I was like,

01:06:26.873 --> 01:06:27.952
I could do your job in ten minutes.

01:06:28.253 --> 01:06:28.552
Really?

01:06:28.952 --> 01:06:30.373
You know the best way to remember orders?

01:06:30.393 --> 01:06:31.514
You know the best way to hold the

01:06:31.554 --> 01:06:33.713
dishes and the best order to bring the

01:06:33.753 --> 01:06:34.313
dishes out?

01:06:34.534 --> 01:06:35.273
Cooks will do that.

01:06:35.313 --> 01:06:37.695
Cooks will start certain dishes before

01:06:37.795 --> 01:06:39.474
other dishes and stagger them so that they

01:06:39.574 --> 01:06:40.795
all go out at a certain time.

01:06:41.315 --> 01:06:42.675
There's little tricks that you pick up

01:06:42.715 --> 01:06:43.476
over time.

01:06:43.536 --> 01:06:45.155
And just the sheer arrogance to be like,

01:06:45.715 --> 01:06:46.516
I could do your job better.

01:06:46.536 --> 01:06:47.036
It's like, no, dude,

01:06:47.056 --> 01:06:48.016
these people are experts.

01:06:48.297 --> 01:06:50.998
Their whole job is to pump out propaganda

01:06:51.318 --> 01:06:53.500
and influence thinking one way or another,

01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:55.342
or just to cause chaos, whatever it is.

01:06:55.521 --> 01:06:58.324
And so, yeah, I think, unfortunately,

01:06:58.463 --> 01:06:59.543
not all of that can be blocked with

01:06:59.563 --> 01:07:00.065
an ad blocker.

01:07:00.105 --> 01:07:01.105
That is far more complex.

01:07:01.144 --> 01:07:02.365
But my point being is like, yeah,

01:07:02.606 --> 01:07:04.668
like ads are just this whole idea that

01:07:04.688 --> 01:07:05.387
it's like, oh, well,

01:07:05.447 --> 01:07:06.608
I don't see a McDonald's commercial and

01:07:06.648 --> 01:07:07.610
then run out and buy a Big Mac.

01:07:07.889 --> 01:07:08.150
No,

01:07:08.230 --> 01:07:09.510
but I guarantee you it's working because

01:07:09.530 --> 01:07:10.851
I'm talking about McDonald's right now.

01:07:10.931 --> 01:07:12.472
So anyways, I digress.

01:07:12.813 --> 01:07:14.054
I could rant about that for a while.

01:07:14.094 --> 01:07:14.813
It's, yeah, I'm with you.

01:07:14.914 --> 01:07:15.313
Ads are...

01:07:16.894 --> 01:07:17.815
I think we're hitting the point where we

01:07:17.835 --> 01:07:19.175
can safely say ads are turning into a

01:07:19.235 --> 01:07:20.476
net loss for society.

01:07:20.556 --> 01:07:21.757
Advertisers are trying to put them

01:07:21.836 --> 01:07:23.277
literally everywhere they can,

01:07:23.737 --> 01:07:25.018
as aggressively as they can,

01:07:25.137 --> 01:07:26.177
as many as they can,

01:07:26.358 --> 01:07:28.099
and it's just completely out of control

01:07:28.298 --> 01:07:30.619
and is turning into a privacy and security

01:07:30.659 --> 01:07:30.940
risk.

01:07:31.019 --> 01:07:34.380
So definitely block ads.

01:07:34.661 --> 01:07:37.862
Please block ads.

01:07:37.942 --> 01:07:38.882
I think I'm done ranting for now.

01:07:40.278 --> 01:07:42.000
Okay, we did get a question from,

01:07:42.460 --> 01:07:43.300
I definitely agree.

01:07:43.621 --> 01:07:44.561
But yeah,

01:07:44.581 --> 01:07:46.362
we did get a question here from Life

01:07:46.543 --> 01:07:47.344
and Death.

01:07:47.483 --> 01:07:49.405
So I would say over half the YouTube

01:07:49.485 --> 01:07:53.307
ads are for fraudulent products or free

01:07:53.327 --> 01:07:54.708
games that I have no interest in.

01:07:54.849 --> 01:07:56.891
So if the only choice is to block

01:07:56.931 --> 01:07:58.391
them all, then okay.

01:07:59.052 --> 01:08:01.153
I would say, you know, again,

01:08:01.454 --> 01:08:03.074
like just because, you know,

01:08:03.114 --> 01:08:04.476
you see these ads and they seem kind

01:08:04.496 --> 01:08:06.157
of unappealing or like uninteresting,

01:08:07.577 --> 01:08:09.780
they are having a subconscious impact on

01:08:09.820 --> 01:08:10.000
you.

01:08:10.407 --> 01:08:11.668
and your impression of things,

01:08:13.130 --> 01:08:14.291
even if you don't think that they are.

01:08:16.453 --> 01:08:17.876
Again, going back to what Nate said,

01:08:18.176 --> 01:08:19.818
you are not immune to propaganda,

01:08:20.099 --> 01:08:20.760
something like that.

01:08:22.421 --> 01:08:23.403
And, you know, there's...

01:08:24.945 --> 01:08:25.626
There's definitely...

01:08:26.305 --> 01:08:27.606
Some people seem to think that they're

01:08:27.627 --> 01:08:29.167
really bad at recommending things.

01:08:30.427 --> 01:08:32.307
But I think there is definitely a reason

01:08:32.347 --> 01:08:33.708
why they show things to people.

01:08:33.889 --> 01:08:36.310
And there's a reason why they keep doing

01:08:36.369 --> 01:08:36.529
it.

01:08:36.909 --> 01:08:38.270
It's because it makes them money.

01:08:39.230 --> 01:08:39.951
And they work.

01:08:40.291 --> 01:08:41.391
So if they didn't work,

01:08:41.731 --> 01:08:42.591
we wouldn't have ads.

01:08:42.631 --> 01:08:44.712
So they do a hundred percent work.

01:08:45.313 --> 01:08:46.613
Maybe not on you.

01:08:46.632 --> 01:08:47.634
They work on people.

01:08:48.113 --> 01:08:49.873
And they are convincing people to buy

01:08:49.913 --> 01:08:50.295
things.

01:08:50.914 --> 01:08:51.114
So...

01:08:52.341 --> 01:08:53.462
I think it's a little bit,

01:08:54.323 --> 01:08:56.083
it's a little bit silly to dismiss all

01:08:56.123 --> 01:08:57.985
of that because you know,

01:08:58.086 --> 01:08:59.867
that's basically how the entire internet

01:08:59.886 --> 01:09:00.386
works now.

01:09:00.488 --> 01:09:02.828
Everything is based on advertising.

01:09:03.010 --> 01:09:04.350
That's how everyone pays for everything at

01:09:04.390 --> 01:09:05.591
least.

01:09:05.631 --> 01:09:05.712
So,

01:09:07.603 --> 01:09:10.284
And not to get too deep into the

01:09:10.305 --> 01:09:12.886
rabbit hole, but like, you know,

01:09:12.985 --> 01:09:13.766
Life and Death also said,

01:09:13.787 --> 01:09:15.068
I love seeing fast food ads at midnight,

01:09:15.108 --> 01:09:16.628
three hours after the stores have closed.

01:09:16.948 --> 01:09:18.409
Yeah, it's like, I mentioned a minute ago,

01:09:18.430 --> 01:09:19.670
the whole like, you know, people are like,

01:09:19.710 --> 01:09:20.831
well, I didn't, you know,

01:09:20.930 --> 01:09:21.872
I don't run out and buy a Big

01:09:21.891 --> 01:09:23.072
Mac every time I see a McDonald's ad.

01:09:23.332 --> 01:09:23.493
No,

01:09:23.512 --> 01:09:24.632
but the goal is to like put it

01:09:24.653 --> 01:09:25.154
in your head.

01:09:25.793 --> 01:09:28.054
And then they want you to like think

01:09:28.555 --> 01:09:30.654
positively about these companies so that

01:09:30.694 --> 01:09:32.574
next time you're out driving around and

01:09:32.595 --> 01:09:33.034
you're like, oh,

01:09:33.055 --> 01:09:34.315
I'm kind of hungry and I'm not going

01:09:34.336 --> 01:09:35.595
to be home for like three more hours

01:09:35.615 --> 01:09:36.376
because I'm running errands.

01:09:36.796 --> 01:09:37.716
I'll get some fast food.

01:09:38.237 --> 01:09:38.716
Oh, you know,

01:09:38.877 --> 01:09:40.056
I haven't had McDonald's in a while.

01:09:40.117 --> 01:09:41.657
And it's on your mind because you keep

01:09:41.676 --> 01:09:43.318
seeing the ads or, you know,

01:09:43.337 --> 01:09:43.898
like Taco Bell.

01:09:43.938 --> 01:09:44.377
I'm not going to lie.

01:09:44.457 --> 01:09:45.118
I love Taco Bell.

01:09:45.238 --> 01:09:46.377
I know it's not real Mexican food.

01:09:46.497 --> 01:09:46.997
I'm well aware.

01:09:47.158 --> 01:09:48.359
I lived in Texas for ten years.

01:09:49.519 --> 01:09:50.738
You know, it's like –

01:09:52.166 --> 01:09:53.587
just thinking to myself like man i haven't

01:09:53.606 --> 01:09:54.967
had taco bell in like six months i

01:09:54.988 --> 01:09:56.890
could really go for a crunch wrap or

01:09:56.909 --> 01:09:58.591
whatever and and that's what they want you

01:09:58.610 --> 01:09:59.511
to do is they want it to be

01:09:59.572 --> 01:10:01.354
front of mind so that your brain is

01:10:01.394 --> 01:10:04.176
more likely as opposed to like what was

01:10:04.216 --> 01:10:05.716
it somebody said the other day somebody

01:10:06.037 --> 01:10:07.838
said something to me that i was i

01:10:07.859 --> 01:10:08.859
mean this has happened a couple times the

01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:10.041
last few days that i'm just like man

01:10:10.060 --> 01:10:12.082
that oh in the fluxer chat we were

01:10:12.122 --> 01:10:13.462
talking about games and somebody mentioned

01:10:13.503 --> 01:10:15.524
need for speed and they were like yeah

01:10:15.725 --> 01:10:17.207
ea really ruined that franchise and i was

01:10:17.226 --> 01:10:17.386
like

01:10:18.484 --> 01:10:20.064
I haven't heard that name in years.

01:10:20.845 --> 01:10:21.564
And you're not kidding.

01:10:21.604 --> 01:10:22.904
Like need for speed used to be like

01:10:22.925 --> 01:10:23.546
grand theft auto.

01:10:23.565 --> 01:10:25.886
It used to be like the big gaming

01:10:25.905 --> 01:10:26.605
franchise.

01:10:27.046 --> 01:10:27.527
And like,

01:10:27.567 --> 01:10:28.806
now I haven't heard that name in years.

01:10:28.846 --> 01:10:29.987
I haven't thought about that name in

01:10:30.006 --> 01:10:30.247
years.

01:10:30.347 --> 01:10:31.228
I mean, I never really played it,

01:10:31.268 --> 01:10:32.488
but you know, it's like, it's,

01:10:32.528 --> 01:10:34.029
that's what advertisers want is they want

01:10:34.069 --> 01:10:35.969
it to be at the front of your

01:10:36.029 --> 01:10:36.429
head.

01:10:36.988 --> 01:10:38.430
And instead of just being like, Oh man,

01:10:38.449 --> 01:10:40.069
I haven't thought about McDonald's in five

01:10:40.109 --> 01:10:40.511
years.

01:10:40.591 --> 01:10:41.770
I didn't even know they were still around.

01:10:41.831 --> 01:10:44.192
So, um, yeah.

01:10:44.271 --> 01:10:44.811
And then, uh,

01:10:46.118 --> 01:10:46.858
What's the last thing I was going to

01:10:46.878 --> 01:10:46.958
say?

01:10:46.979 --> 01:10:47.338
I don't know.

01:10:48.520 --> 01:10:49.819
Jason Archer said here that he got his

01:10:49.859 --> 01:10:52.101
uncle using DuckDuckGo and he's super

01:10:52.122 --> 01:10:53.542
grateful because now he can get things

01:10:53.582 --> 01:10:55.444
done without being distracted and was so

01:10:55.463 --> 01:10:57.225
glad that he shortly thereafter bought

01:10:57.265 --> 01:10:58.025
DuckDuckGo Premium.

01:10:58.065 --> 01:10:59.127
So yeah, it's...

01:11:00.030 --> 01:11:01.591
The internet's a wonderful place without

01:11:01.652 --> 01:11:02.112
ads.

01:11:03.912 --> 01:11:04.894
I did have one more thought that I

01:11:04.913 --> 01:11:05.394
was going to mention,

01:11:05.413 --> 01:11:06.295
but I can't remember what it was.

01:11:06.755 --> 01:11:08.055
I got distracted by talking about how

01:11:08.095 --> 01:11:08.735
advertising works.

01:11:10.277 --> 01:11:10.537
Yeah.

01:11:10.618 --> 01:11:12.259
I think one thing that it reminds me

01:11:12.298 --> 01:11:13.859
of is what you're talking about is like,

01:11:14.380 --> 01:11:15.720
what's that thing where they like pour

01:11:15.761 --> 01:11:17.462
water on you and then like you like

01:11:17.542 --> 01:11:18.122
waterboarding,

01:11:18.141 --> 01:11:19.762
they're like waterboarding you with ads.

01:11:19.863 --> 01:11:20.884
So you'll become like,

01:11:22.164 --> 01:11:23.886
you'll become softened and then you'll

01:11:23.926 --> 01:11:25.886
like buy their products or something.

01:11:26.807 --> 01:11:27.207
I'm not sure.

01:11:27.228 --> 01:11:27.488
Like,

01:11:27.568 --> 01:11:28.548
I feel like it is a bit like

01:11:28.569 --> 01:11:28.708
that.

01:11:28.748 --> 01:11:28.969
Right.

01:11:29.846 --> 01:11:33.128
I mean, probably because there's, okay,

01:11:33.189 --> 01:11:34.229
I'll admit I've never looked into this,

01:11:34.248 --> 01:11:35.510
but I've never heard anybody argue it.

01:11:35.850 --> 01:11:37.530
There's this whole idea that we only have

01:11:37.610 --> 01:11:39.270
so much mental bandwidth to like make

01:11:39.311 --> 01:11:40.511
decisions every day, right?

01:11:40.912 --> 01:11:42.193
And that's why like historically,

01:11:42.493 --> 01:11:43.974
Steve Jobs always wore the turtleneck,

01:11:43.993 --> 01:11:44.173
right?

01:11:44.213 --> 01:11:45.173
I'm sure there were a lot of reasons,

01:11:45.453 --> 01:11:46.114
but one of them was like,

01:11:46.194 --> 01:11:47.574
it's one less decision to make every day.

01:11:47.675 --> 01:11:48.636
I don't have to stand in my closet

01:11:48.655 --> 01:11:48.996
and be like,

01:11:49.336 --> 01:11:50.176
what am I going to wear today?

01:11:50.237 --> 01:11:51.396
It's turtleneck and jeans,

01:11:51.476 --> 01:11:52.377
same thing as every day.

01:11:52.518 --> 01:11:52.618
And

01:11:53.118 --> 01:11:54.639
Allegedly, Warren Buffett eats,

01:11:55.139 --> 01:11:55.538
ironically,

01:11:55.578 --> 01:11:57.479
a McDonald's hamburger every single day

01:11:57.520 --> 01:11:57.960
for lunch.

01:11:58.159 --> 01:12:00.041
And I don't know if that's why he

01:12:00.081 --> 01:12:01.501
does it or if he just really likes

01:12:01.541 --> 01:12:01.961
McDonald's.

01:12:02.001 --> 01:12:04.101
But it's like when you have those built-in

01:12:04.141 --> 01:12:05.342
things where you don't have to think about

01:12:05.382 --> 01:12:05.542
them,

01:12:06.542 --> 01:12:08.304
it frees up your brain to think about

01:12:08.344 --> 01:12:08.884
other things.

01:12:08.984 --> 01:12:10.704
And I firmly believe that like...

01:12:11.545 --> 01:12:12.966
when we have to put up with ads

01:12:13.065 --> 01:12:15.368
all day especially on social media where

01:12:15.387 --> 01:12:17.689
like it's like post post ad post ad

01:12:17.729 --> 01:12:19.970
post post like you have to pause for

01:12:19.990 --> 01:12:21.591
a second and think like oh is this

01:12:21.672 --> 01:12:23.113
oh that's an ad i'm gonna keep scrolling

01:12:23.634 --> 01:12:25.494
and that's like one more second of

01:12:26.176 --> 01:12:27.896
bandwidth that they take away from you

01:12:27.917 --> 01:12:29.337
that's like one more decision that's one

01:12:29.377 --> 01:12:30.618
more and so by the end of the

01:12:30.658 --> 01:12:32.220
day you're so tired because you've been

01:12:32.239 --> 01:12:34.381
looking at ads all day like imagine if

01:12:34.402 --> 01:12:35.703
we didn't have that imagine how much more

01:12:35.762 --> 01:12:36.703
energy we'd have at the end of the

01:12:36.724 --> 01:12:38.925
day like i mean yeah you're probably not

01:12:38.944 --> 01:12:39.104
gonna

01:12:40.046 --> 01:12:41.347
I don't know, solve the,

01:12:41.387 --> 01:12:42.871
the quantum mechanics,

01:12:43.051 --> 01:12:44.353
the next big thing in quantum mechanics,

01:12:44.372 --> 01:12:45.855
but like maybe you'll have the energy to

01:12:45.895 --> 01:12:46.336
cook dinner.

01:12:46.395 --> 01:12:47.819
Maybe you'll have the energy to like start

01:12:47.838 --> 01:12:49.501
learning a language or read a book or

01:12:49.702 --> 01:12:50.082
I don't know.

01:12:50.222 --> 01:12:51.104
So yeah.

01:12:52.005 --> 01:12:52.206
Yeah.

01:12:52.855 --> 01:12:53.856
Yeah.

01:12:53.877 --> 01:12:57.099
We did get a comment here from E

01:12:57.198 --> 01:12:59.260
six T three N.

01:12:59.940 --> 01:13:01.020
And they also said that I had a

01:13:01.060 --> 01:13:02.261
cool, cool haircut.

01:13:02.381 --> 01:13:02.863
I don't know.

01:13:03.143 --> 01:13:04.243
Why do people keep saying that?

01:13:04.264 --> 01:13:06.024
I'm not sure why, but thank you.

01:13:06.725 --> 01:13:07.826
First time on the live stream.

01:13:07.886 --> 01:13:08.326
Welcome in.

01:13:09.487 --> 01:13:12.009
They also said DuckDuckGo premium isn't

01:13:12.029 --> 01:13:13.409
available in Germany, by the way.

01:13:13.750 --> 01:13:13.890
Yeah.

01:13:13.909 --> 01:13:14.369
It's also,

01:13:14.489 --> 01:13:15.551
I don't think it's available here in

01:13:15.591 --> 01:13:16.452
Australia either.

01:13:17.011 --> 01:13:18.693
It is kind of annoying when like services

01:13:18.733 --> 01:13:19.453
will limit services.

01:13:20.094 --> 01:13:22.456
the rollout of their products to certain

01:13:22.475 --> 01:13:25.479
countries because it always seems like

01:13:25.519 --> 01:13:28.943
they do the United States first every time

01:13:29.023 --> 01:13:30.144
or something like that.

01:13:30.224 --> 01:13:30.824
And it's like,

01:13:31.706 --> 01:13:33.587
it's frustrating because those tools can

01:13:33.608 --> 01:13:35.208
be useful for people outside of there as

01:13:35.309 --> 01:13:35.488
well.

01:13:35.529 --> 01:13:37.811
Like, I think, you know,

01:13:38.192 --> 01:13:40.854
maybe also we've been looking a little bit

01:13:40.895 --> 01:13:41.534
more into

01:13:43.899 --> 01:13:47.060
private card masking services, uh,

01:13:47.180 --> 01:13:49.261
in light of the privacy.com stuff.

01:13:49.940 --> 01:13:51.122
And that's also another issue.

01:13:51.162 --> 01:13:52.582
Like a lot of those financial ones,

01:13:52.662 --> 01:13:54.443
a lot of them it's available in the

01:13:54.462 --> 01:13:57.203
U S and it's not, um,

01:13:57.283 --> 01:14:00.126
odd bite said, I feel targeted by Jordan.

01:14:00.145 --> 01:14:00.905
I don't know.

01:14:00.926 --> 01:14:03.506
I don't, I don't think so.

01:14:03.646 --> 01:14:06.467
Uh, someone else said, uh,

01:14:06.568 --> 01:14:08.248
I eat a lot of fruit.

01:14:08.309 --> 01:14:08.569
Um,

01:14:10.350 --> 01:14:12.649
That's good to beat McDonald's.

01:14:12.670 --> 01:14:14.030
I think because I keep saying McDonald's

01:14:14.091 --> 01:14:14.530
over and over,

01:14:15.030 --> 01:14:16.591
that same person also said McDonald's

01:14:16.610 --> 01:14:17.051
gross face.

01:14:17.752 --> 01:14:20.011
Yeah, the DDG premium thing,

01:14:20.112 --> 01:14:20.731
I totally agree with it.

01:14:20.752 --> 01:14:21.591
And especially those,

01:14:21.612 --> 01:14:23.932
things like privacy.com or voice over IP,

01:14:24.372 --> 01:14:25.172
it's unfortunate.

01:14:25.233 --> 01:14:26.793
And I do wish there were more options

01:14:26.814 --> 01:14:27.654
for international people,

01:14:28.014 --> 01:14:30.413
but I get it because the banking

01:14:30.453 --> 01:14:32.194
regulations are really strict in a lot of

01:14:32.234 --> 01:14:32.675
countries.

01:14:32.694 --> 01:14:33.375
And in some countries,

01:14:33.395 --> 01:14:35.074
you have to show your ID to get

01:14:35.095 --> 01:14:36.775
a phone number and stuff like that.

01:14:37.216 --> 01:14:37.435
So-

01:14:38.655 --> 01:14:40.118
I get why those ones are kind of

01:14:40.297 --> 01:14:42.199
generally limited to one country or

01:14:42.220 --> 01:14:42.500
whatever.

01:14:42.860 --> 01:14:44.242
But yeah, things like DuckDuckGo Premium,

01:14:45.524 --> 01:14:48.367
what regulation is making it so difficult

01:14:49.408 --> 01:14:52.251
to run DDG Premium in Germany or

01:14:52.371 --> 01:14:52.931
Australia?

01:14:53.351 --> 01:14:54.313
Yeah, those ones confuse me.

01:14:54.332 --> 01:14:55.814
I don't know why those aren't more widely

01:14:55.835 --> 01:14:56.815
available.

01:14:56.855 --> 01:14:57.337
I wish they were.

01:14:59.265 --> 01:15:00.627
Oddbite did say, oh,

01:15:00.667 --> 01:15:02.046
they're talking about, okay,

01:15:03.387 --> 01:15:04.828
they're talking about how they work at

01:15:04.868 --> 01:15:05.208
Cape,

01:15:05.288 --> 01:15:07.130
and Cape is only available in the US.

01:15:07.310 --> 01:15:09.051
Yeah, can you convince them to, like,

01:15:09.150 --> 01:15:09.871
open that up more?

01:15:09.890 --> 01:15:11.292
Like, get that in other countries.

01:15:11.311 --> 01:15:13.432
I want that.

01:15:13.512 --> 01:15:16.134
Universe said, nobody advertises fruit.

01:15:16.154 --> 01:15:16.573
That's true.

01:15:16.634 --> 01:15:17.515
Fruit is underrated, man.

01:15:17.595 --> 01:15:18.234
I love bananas.

01:15:18.314 --> 01:15:19.194
Bananas are delicious.

01:15:20.850 --> 01:15:21.930
I will tear through.

01:15:21.970 --> 01:15:22.671
I know it's not fruit,

01:15:22.730 --> 01:15:24.872
but I will destroy an entire container of

01:15:24.912 --> 01:15:25.412
cashews.

01:15:25.872 --> 01:15:27.131
I probably shouldn't be proud of this,

01:15:27.152 --> 01:15:28.452
but at one time I actually ate so

01:15:28.471 --> 01:15:29.412
many cashews in one sitting,

01:15:29.452 --> 01:15:30.212
I made myself sick.

01:15:30.512 --> 01:15:31.932
So I love cashews.

01:15:31.953 --> 01:15:34.493
Um, yeah.

01:15:35.432 --> 01:15:36.134
Uh, good evening.

01:15:36.694 --> 01:15:38.054
Uh, nomad outdoor adventures.

01:15:38.373 --> 01:15:39.913
Unfortunately, we're actually, um,

01:15:39.934 --> 01:15:40.953
that was actually our last story.

01:15:40.974 --> 01:15:41.914
We're kind of wrapping up here.

01:15:42.854 --> 01:15:43.034
Swear.

01:15:43.095 --> 01:15:44.255
I had one more thought on that story,

01:15:44.274 --> 01:15:45.454
but I cannot remember what it is to

01:15:45.494 --> 01:15:46.034
save my life.

01:15:46.335 --> 01:15:48.756
So yeah, I don't know.

01:15:50.076 --> 01:15:50.155
Uh,

01:15:51.971 --> 01:15:53.233
In fun fact, in Germany,

01:15:53.273 --> 01:15:54.635
you must present an ID card to get

01:15:54.654 --> 01:15:55.515
a SIM card usually,

01:15:55.536 --> 01:15:56.997
but sometimes they just physically mail

01:15:57.016 --> 01:15:58.257
you the SIM card and use that as

01:15:58.278 --> 01:15:59.840
an identification of your address slash

01:15:59.880 --> 01:16:00.261
identity.

01:16:01.100 --> 01:16:02.243
That's okay.

01:16:02.342 --> 01:16:03.863
That's a very robust system.

01:16:04.744 --> 01:16:05.586
I mean, I'm not complaining.

01:16:05.626 --> 01:16:06.766
It gives you an opportunity to protect

01:16:06.787 --> 01:16:08.189
your privacy, but yeah,

01:16:08.208 --> 01:16:09.390
what could go wrong?

01:16:09.430 --> 01:16:09.550
So.

01:16:11.347 --> 01:16:14.149
Yeah, we do need that in Australia.

01:16:14.168 --> 01:16:17.490
You need to verify your ID either way.

01:16:17.951 --> 01:16:19.231
So that sucks.

01:16:19.271 --> 01:16:22.813
But for privacy.com,

01:16:22.832 --> 01:16:24.753
the international option is HaloCard.

01:16:25.935 --> 01:16:26.194
Yeah,

01:16:26.295 --> 01:16:27.695
definitely looks like an interesting

01:16:27.756 --> 01:16:28.216
service.

01:16:29.076 --> 01:16:30.676
It's something we're probably going to try

01:16:30.697 --> 01:16:32.177
and look into at some point, but...

01:16:33.747 --> 01:16:35.770
I'm not sure if that's a section of

01:16:35.810 --> 01:16:38.493
the website that we are focusing on at

01:16:38.552 --> 01:16:39.273
the moment,

01:16:39.432 --> 01:16:42.756
but it'll be interesting to probably dive

01:16:42.796 --> 01:16:44.137
into that once we get the time.

01:16:45.599 --> 01:16:45.738
Yeah,

01:16:45.759 --> 01:16:47.581
I'm not really seeing any other questions

01:16:47.621 --> 01:16:48.020
or comments,

01:16:48.081 --> 01:16:50.643
especially even in the signal chat or on

01:16:50.783 --> 01:16:51.564
the forum thread.

01:16:51.644 --> 01:16:55.226
Yeah,

01:16:55.327 --> 01:16:57.349
I guess we can wrap it up then.

01:16:58.529 --> 01:16:59.030
All right.

01:16:59.827 --> 01:16:59.907
Man,

01:16:59.926 --> 01:17:00.988
that's going to bug me all night what

01:17:01.047 --> 01:17:01.828
my last thought was.

01:17:01.908 --> 01:17:03.470
But, you know, as they say,

01:17:03.529 --> 01:17:04.730
if I can't remember it,

01:17:04.751 --> 01:17:05.731
it must not have been that important.

01:17:07.113 --> 01:17:08.493
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