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to create at the moment of inspiration.
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for 35-plus front-end frameworks, including SvelteKit.
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Hey, it's another Svelte Radio episode.
It was such a long time since we recorded.
Today, it's just me and Brittany,
but we are going to have a great time anyway.
Yeah, we're going to catch up with all the things.
Yeah, what have you been up to lately?
What's going on?
I just flew back from JAMstack Comp,
so literally jet-lagged and tired today,
but we're making it through.
It was such a great time and fun meeting all of the people
I got to meet.
Lots of people. It's in San Francisco,
so it's the one place where you can roll out of a bar
and run into a billionaire.
So it's kind of funny.
I met Tom Preston Warner on the side of the street.
Pretty cool.
Did you take a paparazzi photo of him and sell it?
He actually came to JAMstack Comp the next day,
so I did not make it in a lot of the pictures.
So there's pictures on Twitter that I took,
but I'm not in it.
Oh, no.
It's kind of sad.
You can tag yourself anyway.
I've been having a vacation after Svelte Summit.
So for clarity for everyone that's listening,
we did record an episode after Svelte Summit,
but sadly the audio was completely mucked up,
so we couldn't really make it work.
So this is what we've got.
Yeah, we were going to try to do some post-Summit highlights,
but it got lost in the ether.
I think we'll try to revisit that when the videos are up,
so we can actually talk about the talks a bit more in depth.
So I've just been on vacation for like nine days or something,
just came back, starting to work again,
which is nice, actually getting to write some Svelte.
It's actually a lot of fun.
Yeah, that is really nice.
Actually use the language you love.
Yes, yes, exactly.
Oh, I was going to mention JAMstack Conv.
So you have these awards called the Jammies.
Yes.
Are people forced to wear pajamas when they accept their awards?
Is that a thing?
That is hilarious that you say that,
because in the employee orientation for JAMstack Conv,
they told us we can't wear Jammies.
That's like the one rule.
It's like, so wait, we can't wear Jammies to the Jammie Awards
or JAMstack Conv.
Like why are onesies like not made just for this event?
Missed opportunity.
Missed opportunity, complete missed opportunity.
Yeah, I need to hand out the onesies as you get there
and like you're required to wear these.
But yeah, so we give out a Jammie Award.
There's actually several different categories
and Svelte won for the Ecosystem Innovation Award,
which I thought was really cool.
So what does that mean, Ecosystem Innovation Award?
Innovation, so like innovation in the JAMstack ecosystem.
So like creating things that are different
and innovating to the space,
like things that are going to take us to like the new age of JavaScript.
Oh, it does sound exciting.
It sounds like you're working.
It feels like you're working with the future when you're working.
Yeah, and I hope that no one got offended that there was no video.
So apparently Rich did record the videos and they got handed off,
but there was a miscommunication between our social media manager
and the video producer and it got lost in transition.
So there were videos, but unfortunately Rich does know
he does have his Jammie Award and it's very cool.
I wonder if he can post that video somewhere anyway.
Yeah, he should post that on Twitter.
That might be spicy though after the fact.
Yeah, it's true.
Yeah.
I feel like you've got to toe the line between because the two companies.
Sure, right. I didn't even think about that.
It's just like I just don't really think about that stuff a lot.
Good, because we shouldn't.
No, right?
We all love each other.
Yes, yes.
All right, so that's what we've been doing, I guess.
So let's get into talking about some Svelte stuff.
Some updates.
Yeah, so you guys recently had an election over there in the US, right?
Is it still ongoing?
Yeah, so the elections here are really crazy recently
since the whole fiasco of 2020 and everything kind of got confused
and people want all of these things to be double counted and stuff.
So some states have different rules and regulations for their counts.
So the states that could not start counting the ballots that were mailed in
and have to do recounts and stuff are still determining who their winning candidate is.
And then there's also Georgia, who you have to get 50 percent plus one to win.
And they are at forty nine point something and forty eight.
So there's going to be a runoff in that election.
What does that mean that they have to do it again?
Yes, so the two winningest candidates go up against each other again December 6th, I believe.
And so then they have another election just to double check to make sure that's really who you want,
which happened also in 2020 or 2021.
There was someone stepped down, I think, and they had a runoff election before
and this similar thing happened, but it's happened again.
Yeah.
Yeah. So we still don't have like all the official results and nothing goes into effect until January.
But there's been a lot of drama in the US.
But the reason that we're talking about that is because all of these election graphs that you're able to see on the New York Times, on Bloomberg.
And I think there's one other. Yeah.
Der Spiegel in Germany. Der Spiegel. And then there's one other US one, too, that I'm missing.
Yeah. That is also using Svelte for their election graphs.
But I think that's really cool. And I mean, it kind of makes sense because Reuters Reuters Reuters. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't even know if that's US based, but that is the one I'm missing.
It's a big one. All using Svelte for their election graphs, which I think is really cool.
But since Rich started at the New York Times and built this kind of for that purpose, it does make a lot of sense.
It is it is very cool to see it like widely used in the like in the news industry.
I know I think I mentioned this on the last time we recorded like in the in the in the doomed episode that didn't never made it live.
That like the the Swedish election. So we had an election at Svelte Summit, right?
Like the day after or two days after whatever. And the the biggest newspaper in Sweden also use Svelte for their election, like the Swedish election results.
Yeah, you did mention that. Yeah. So it's it's even over here.
And like a lot of the people at Svelte Summit were from from like the like this Norwegian newspaper organization that's that owns like the largest newspaper in Norway and Sweden.
Like they I think they were like 20 people or something at Svelte Summit, which is kind of crazy.
And I mean, we had several talks at Svelte Summit, too, that were about like data viz and like using Svelte to create all of these visualizations for the newspapers.
I know Bloomberg was there. Julian and Brittany from Bloomberg.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's. Speaking of data data visualization, I I got reminded of this.
So I was I was on vacation, right. And I went to Budapest and we went to this light museum thing.
And I got talking to a couple of friends of mine and I got reminded of this old talk from Svelte Society Day 2020, which is on like creative coding, which is really which is a really cool thing.
It's basically like art made using code and it's like moving colors and figures and all this cool stuff.
I'm going to link that in the show notes because I think everyone needs to see that talk because it's it's really cool.
That sounds really awesome. I'm going to have to watch that.
It's super easy to do as well. Like you could. He does the whole talk pretty much in the REPL, I think.
So, yeah, I might. Yeah, I might be misremembering.
We'll have to link it in the show notes and everybody has to go watch it.
At Jamestack Comp, they had musicians coding music. And so you had like the visualizations and the music. It was really cool.
That that is that is wild.
I don't think it was in Svelte. I think it was just JavaScript.
Sure. But it's cool anyway.
It's still cool.
Yeah. Yeah.
So. So the thing that Svelte does really well with this is the tween stores.
Right. So you can just like you just get these fluid motions back and forth.
And yeah. Anyway, I'm not I'm not going to spoil it too much.
It's very cool. It's very good.
Yeah. All right. So we talked about the Jamii Award already.
Right. We did. Yeah. And got the election stuff out of the way.
Yeah. Drama.
Now I know we're going to talk about all the work that Kevin's been doing recently.
Yes. Yes. It's honestly not hard work, but but it's tedious.
Yeah. Time consuming and tedious. Yeah.
So I've been I've been using this new open AI whisper a machine learning.
I don't know what you call it. Whatever it is, it creates subtitles for you.
You just enter videos and you get you get subtitles out basically.
So cool. Just the product in general.
It is very cool. Yeah. Yeah.
It even like it picks up things like I think I mentioned this on the Discord,
but like it picks up things like blah, blah, blah.
Dots felt like it actually like types that out in the subtitle, which is very cool.
And picking up the words felt for these transcript things is very difficult.
So if you ever look at YouTube or if you used a script, they all get like felt or they change it.
Something else like Netlify is nullify most of the time. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
It is actually pretty cool.
So what I've been doing is I've been going through all of the live streams on the YouTube channel
and I've run them through this machine learning thing and got subtitles for for all of them basically.
And I'm currently working on the videos.
Thank you so much for doing that, too.
We had a request in the Svelte Sirens channel to get transcripts on some of the videos.
And Kevin was nice enough to go through some of the old ones.
So they're starting to get uploaded and put in there.
Yeah, exactly. And we're actually going to use it for Svelte Radio as well to get the transcripts done.
We used to have transcripts. Right. But they they were really bad.
They were really, really bad.
But with this, it's at least it's obviously not as good as someone actually translating it or sorry,
transcribing it word by word. Right.
But it's at least passable and you can read the information.
I wonder if there's like an automated workflow you could set up to with like maybe a GitHub action or something where you could just pull them down.
Yeah, that would be really awesome.
Yeah. So the problem is that you need like a powerful GPU to actually run this thing.
Otherwise, it's going to take you like forever to do.
Like even so I think an hour takes on like like a super beefy GPU takes about maybe five or 10 minutes or something.
So you can imagine like running that on like a on a laptop or something.
You're going to be sitting there for a very long time, though.
I mean, you can just do other stuff in the meantime.
That's what I was going to say. If it was automated, maybe it just runs in the background.
But you would have to make sure the machines on and like unless you have something specifically set up for that.
Yeah, exactly. So that's that's basically what I've been doing.
So it's tedious.
Just have to like sit in the command line and do copy paste of URLs and stuff.
But it's not that much work.
It needs to be done.
We've had this request multiple times as well for like having the talks and stuff transcribed, especially for Svelte Summit.
So that's also like something I want to make sure.
The nice thing that does happen when you upload those to YouTube videos is you get those nice chapters.
So you get like actual clickable links to go to the different chapters with that, not just in the description.
I know that usually like we'll do it in the description, but I think they like come on the sidebar.
And so it looks like little book chapters and you can click once you have the subtitles if they're timed, I think.
Right. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a good side effect.
Yeah. It's really nice for people like just wanting to click through things.
Yeah. Yeah. So I'm working on getting the the videos done.
There are like a lot more videos than than live streams.
What, like five years of videos?
Yeah. So I think I counted like one hundred and seven or something.
It's probably going to take a couple of days to just to get through those.
But it's it has to be done.
I think one thing I wanted to point out is that the the machine learning thing, it also does translations as well.
So we now have subtitles for the like the Svelte Indonesia meetup that like a very like couple of years ago, they did some meetups in Indonesia.
Yeah. And the Svelte Society France from 2020 as well is on there with subtitles now.
And so now all the Svelte societies worldwide can use this open source tool to like also do that in the future.
Yeah. And yeah, I think that's it. I think that's it.
Cool. Go watch the old meetups or read the subtitles if you need them.
Absolutely. Go see like all the old things and hopefully all the new things.
Yep. That are coming out.
Yeah, I feel like that's everything that we've we've been doing recently. But there was something that has happened since Svelte Summit.
And we've last recorded a thing that I wanted to point out.
So the creator of Knockout JS, which I was not familiar with before, I'm kind of a newer web developer, so I haven't been kind of an OG person.
Steve Sanderson was at NDC Sydney and demoed SvelteKit for this big room of people. And it seemed really cool.
And Rich had a couple of tweets out about it and that Steve Sanderson was really like a mentor for him.
And I thought it was a really cool thing to see someone that's like an OG creator, like admiring the routing in SvelteKit and how these form actions work and the different things that he was pointing out.
And so we'll put those in the show notes if you want to check the tweets out. I think they're timestamped to the parts of the videos.
Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty cool to see.
Yeah.
It's always nice to see when when people admire like the cool features of Svelte.
And to see the collaboration in the framework space, that was one of the things at jams.com too that I really liked.
I met the creator of Astro, of Solid, of Redwood JS, like the different frameworks that like come together and the conversations that they have just make this community better.
Like we all build off of each other to build a better thing in the end. And I love that.
Yeah, it's definitely a very welcoming and nice community.
It is. And I think they all improve each other. They're all like, oh, these are the things that have worked for me. Maybe they'll work for you. Maybe they won't. Maybe we're doing a different thing.
But it's all a learning process. And I love that they communicate with each other.
Yep.
Vercel is the platform for front end developers, providing the speed and reliability innovators need to create at the moment of inspiration.
Founded by the creators of Next.js, Vercel has zero configuration support for 35 plus front end frameworks, including SvelteKit.
We enable the world's largest brands like Under Armour, eBay, and Nintendo to iterate faster and create quality software.
Try out Vercel today to experience the easiest way to use Svelte.
So do we want to talk about the milestone goal?
Yeah, I mean, that seems reasonable to talk about.
I think that is pretty reasonable to talk about. And it looks like we are getting pretty close.
If you go to the GitHub link, it's at SvelteJS slash kit milestone slash two on GitHub.
You can see that we are at 97 percent today.
I mean, like, super close, right?
So close.
And I hear some rumors from some people. I don't think it's anything official that they're saying by the end of the year,
but we're getting into holiday season here in the U.S.
And I know Simon's not in the U.S. but Rich is and we're going to see, but I'm not promising anything.
But hopefully maybe in the beginning of the new year.
Would be a nice Christmas present, right?
Oh, it would be a great Christmas present.
Yeah, you could just start the new year off with just like, oh, it's 1.0 now. You can use it everywhere,
even though we've already been using it.
I know we've already been using it. A lot of us have already been using it.
But I've still heard all of these little things like, oh, it's still not 1.0, even though we have the release candidate.
And I've still heard people saying like, oh, are there still going to be changes?
I'm like, well, there's not any expected breaking changes, but there could be, I guess.
Yeah, I mean, there was one the other day, right?
Something about like the route ID or something. I don't know.
Oh, I missed that one. There was a breaking change?
Yeah, like they changed the name of something.
I don't remember, but it was just like a super tiny, tiny thing, right?
But still, it's a breaking change.
That is still a breaking change.
It's funny, like sometimes you see in the Discord people coming in and asking for help.
And you're like, they're still using the old version of the pre-routing changes.
So they're like using like 150 version old SvelteKit, and they're asking for documentation.
And they have the load function in the page file and all this stuff.
And you're like, just update.
And they're like, no, I can't. It's such a big project.
So they know that the changes happen, but they don't want to update.
And so they want the old version.
I mean, that is valid, although it was beta software.
But there's like still a valid, like people were building on that beta software.
And that's scary.
I think they should just bite the bullet and just like.
They should at this point, I think.
Just migrate.
And it really didn't take that long.
Right. Yeah. We did it on the stream, right?
We did, but that was a very small project.
That's what I was going to say.
It's like if you're running a very big app, I could see how that's a lot of changes,
especially like I had to even go into each file and like update the props and everything that's coming in.
So that is a little tedious, but.
Yeah, but it's just that, right?
It's tedious.
It's not like you were saying about the captions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just like something you have to do.
And it's not hard. It's just like a time consuming process.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. All right.
So, yeah, hopefully next year.
We'll have a one point oh hundred percent complete.
Absolutely. That'd be cool.
And then we can get Svelte 4.
But like we mentioned earlier, those election graphs, the New York Times when I think is actually running Svelte kit, not just Svelte.
So, yeah, one of them was running Svelte kit itself.
So they're running it on massive massively used to.
Yeah. People are viewing that from everywhere application.
So it's it's stable.
Maybe we should ask if they want to come on the podcast and talk about it.
That would be amazing. Right.
That'd be fun.
And maybe Rich has like an in still like we can get somebody on to talk about it.
We could also do like a like a panel podcast thing where we bring on like one from each major news or again,
they talk about their different like experiences of of using Svelte and Svelte kit.
I think that would be really interesting. Right. That could be fun.
I'm going to write that down so I don't forget it.
But yeah, I think that's that's pretty much it.
That's kind of most that we could think about that's like been happening other than the post-summit highlights that got kind of lost.
But maybe we'll get to do that in the future when the videos get up.
Yeah. I think that makes sense. All right. Cool.
So we're into the nice parts of the show. The fun parts.
Yeah. The unpopular opinions. Do you have one for us, Brittany?
So if you have been on the social media space at all, I'm sure you've heard the Twitter drama that Elon Musk has taken over.
They fired or laid off or they fired them. Right.
Like 50 percent of the workforce pretty much.
Like they're gone. And I think Twitter is just on its way out.
It is not a profitable company and it's never I think it's very rarely made money.
And then with their current model losing advertisers, I think Twitter is going to die.
Yeah, that's that's an opinion. My unpopular opinion is that Twitter is not going to die.
It's so funny. I think so. Yeah. Yeah.
I think the the advertiser thing is just the temporary thing.
Like advertisers, they just like they're coming back.
Yeah, I think so. Like all the people are still on Twitter.
Right. Like a lot of people definitely went to like Mastodon and other stuff.
Yeah, right. Something else I was going to talk about.
But something that I didn't really understand is a company not being profitable.
What that means is that they are borrowing money to pay employees.
So they're actually like taking out loans to make these like paychecks and stuff.
And with interest rates in the US going higher, they're basically like paying more interest on these loans.
And then Elon spent 40 billion dollars on Twitter of money that he doesn't technically have.
It's just Tesla's money. So he's effectively like crashing two companies at the same time.
Kind of crazy. It is.
I kind of wish Sean was here because he knows all like the financial stuff.
Yeah, exactly. I think he he kind of tried to back out of the deal.
Right. But he like he did offer 44 billion or whatever.
That's such an insane amount of money. It is an insane amount.
And then the courts made him take it because they're like, you can't back out on this.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So but yeah, I think he's going to.
So he's trying to get rid of all these bots. Right. That's that's why he wants this.
He wants to change the verify thing and how all that works. I don't know.
Like, we'll see. All of that. It's probably a turbulent. Yeah. Right. Right.
Yeah. Like eight dollars a month to be like officially verified now.
And if you don't pay, you're going to lose your checkmark.
And I remember people like Emma Boston and Kelly Vaughn and all of them trying to get verified and they couldn't get through the process.
And it was a big deal for them. And then now it's just like you pay eight dollars and we'll verify you.
But what validity does that have? Sure. Yeah.
I did see something about him mentioning that there's going to be like a secondary verification thing.
Like if you go to like the POTUS account, you'll you'll have like one that's going to be verified with the blue checkmark.
And then beneath that, it says like official government account or whatever.
I think there's still like some kind of. Yeah, I think there's there's going to be two levels or something.
Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. I have jumped a little bit onto the mastodon train.
Like I tried it out last weekend and I really like it.
I don't know if it's going to be the next Twitter, the next big thing.
But I think it does because you you have this self moderation feature because it's almost like Discord where we have these small communities and you can join any of these little small communities within those communities.
They can moderate and kick people out.
But there is like the big mastodon dot social that you can also join with like a different username.
And I don't know how that one is moderated.
So you can follow across servers.
So it's like having your small Discord community, but still also see like other people's Twitter or social.
Yeah, exactly. I remember trying mastodon out like a couple of years ago, but I mean, no one was using it.
Has it been around that long?
Yeah, it's been around for a very long time.
The problem is you have to go where people are, right?
And that's the thing with Twitter.
I'm still on Twitter because a lot of people are still on Twitter.
Yeah, that's the thing.
I don't think people are going to move to mastodon, unfortunately.
Like I'd love for that to be the case.
There was a big surge, but I don't know if it's the next big thing.
But I do really like it.
I think it has potential.
Yeah, for sure.
I think that's her unpopular opinions.
Yeah, I think so.
It's kind of quiet today, which is, you know what I mean?
Like we don't have all the voices.
Yeah, we don't have all the chatter, all the people.
Yeah, we move along pretty quickly.
I think maybe Sean is doing some kind of writers' retreat thing, maybe?
Oh, yeah, that's right.
I was telling him when I saw the dates, I was like, oh, I'll be at James.com.
So I couldn't go to it.
But I think, yeah, down in Miami, they're having like a development writing.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know if clinic is the right word, but yeah, that seems kind of cool.
Clinic.
Clinic workshop.
Yeah, I don't know.
Something about learning how to write development documentation and all that stuff, I guess.
Yeah.
And Anthony just has a baby.
Yeah.
That's just the excuse all the time.
Like you have a baby, you're just busy.
Yeah.
So I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast, but I got to meet her last week,
which was a lot of fun.
Super cute.
So awesome.
I know.
So cute.
Yeah.
Okay.
Picks.
Yes.
So since I was at James.com, they have released the videos and the playback, and there were
so many good talks.
So that's going to be my pick this week, I think, is to go watch the James stack talk
and don't get mad when you see the Jamie with no spelt person.
Phil accepted the spelt joke.
Yeah.
And no pajamas.
Like what?
Just such a missed opportunity.
Should have memed it.
Gone in pajamas anyway.
Anyway.
All right.
So my pick, it's called Kagi, and it's a search engine that you pay money for.
What a wild concept, right?
Pay money to search.
That is a really wild concept.
And you mentioned this before the podcast when we were talking, and I was like, it's
kind of interesting to think that you would pay money to use a search engine, but really
you're paying like Google in your data.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
So it does kind of make sense.
So what I've noticed is that the results are much higher quality.
There's less of these, I'm sure you've noticed when you've Googled for stuff, you have all
these like blog spam.
Yeah, ads, blog spam everywhere.
Especially also if you're trying to find specific, like if you're searching for something in
JavaScript, you might get these websites that just copy issues from GitHub, and they just
like make a website that just, and it's just like filled with ads all around and you have
like some, it's just like very distracting.
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah.
So the results are much higher and you get like this feature where you can click on every
domain and you can just like weigh it, like how much you want it to show up in the results.
So if you find that the results are not good, you can just like block that domain and it
will show up in your results again.
So it's very like, there are no ads, of course, because you're paying for it.
So I think it's like $10 a month, which is, it sounds expensive, but if you think about
how much time you actually might save for each search that adds up.
And then you're not giving your data to a big tech company.
Exactly.
It sounds very intriguing.
I wonder how the search results are, like what kind of algorithm they're using to get
the search results.
I can't say, why is that so hard to say?
Search results.
It's a hard word.
And then I wonder how you get SEO catered to that.
Like, does it use kind of the same metrics that Google uses?
I have no idea.
I just know that the results are good.
I'm sure you don't know.
These are just questions.
Like I'm intrigued.
Yeah.
Well, you can, you can try it out for free.
I think you can get like 50 searches or something per month for free.
Oh, interesting.
And they apparently, so apparently it costs them like, what was it?
One cent per search or something in costs, which is like wild.
That sounds high.
Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
But I don't know.
Yeah.
So I wonder if they're like on a different algorithm, like are they paying someone else
to be behind the scenes to use?
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it could be that they're like bringing in a lot of data and aggregating
it somehow and sorting through it.
So maybe they're like using Google's algorithm and then just sorting it somehow.
Yeah.
Removing the bad stuff.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
So I, I, uh, I would give it a shot if you feel like Google is not treating you well.
It's a, it's a, it's a good, uh, it's a good search engine.
I think that's our, I think that's our picks.
That's it.
Yeah.
Um, I guess we'll, uh, see you all next week.
Thanks for, uh, for listening and, uh, yeah, hopefully we can start doing these more regularly.
Yes.
All right, thanks for having me.
Bye.