WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.370 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.720 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.590 from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.840 Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.700 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:21.750 Let's get started. 00:00:24.900 --> 00:00:27.420 Victoria: Chemicals means business. 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:31.680 So today I get have the opportunity to speak with Gerard Braud who is 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:33.870 a crisis communications expert. 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.890 Um, if, if you've been in the chemical industry for a while and 00:00:36.890 --> 00:00:41.133 really almost industry, you know, that there's a variety of incidents 00:00:41.133 --> 00:00:47.103 that have been in the news and often company response could be better. 00:00:47.283 --> 00:00:51.723 And you know, I'd like to tell people, you either control the 00:00:51.723 --> 00:00:55.143 narrative and control the story, or somebody is gonna make it up for you. 00:00:55.473 --> 00:00:58.773 And in the case of the chemical industry in particular, as we, you 00:00:58.773 --> 00:01:02.790 know, as you guys know, within my target audience here, Knowing that story, 00:01:02.850 --> 00:01:05.940 telling our story is really critical. 00:01:05.940 --> 00:01:11.280 So I am excited to have Gerard Braud back on The Chemical Show here to 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:12.900 talk about crisis communications. 00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:14.280 He was first on the Chemical Show. 00:01:15.035 --> 00:01:18.485 Boy back in our early days, I'm gonna link to that episode because 00:01:18.485 --> 00:01:20.885 I'm sure there's still something for you to learn from that. 00:01:21.215 --> 00:01:24.245 Um, we're gonna kind of have a refresh conversation talking 00:01:24.245 --> 00:01:28.355 about how chemical companies and leaders can be ready to respond. 00:01:28.355 --> 00:01:30.815 So Gerard welcome to the Chemical Show. 00:01:31.460 --> 00:01:32.480 Gerard: Hey, it's good to be back. 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:33.680 Nice to talk with you again. 00:01:34.130 --> 00:01:34.910 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:37.670 So let's just start with a little bit about you. 00:01:37.730 --> 00:01:39.320 What is your origin story? 00:01:39.320 --> 00:01:45.290 How did you get interest interested in this field of crisis communications? 00:01:45.950 --> 00:01:46.130 Gerard: Yeah. 00:01:46.130 --> 00:01:49.220 My first career was actually as a TV journalist. 00:01:49.490 --> 00:01:52.760 I did a little newspaper, but mostly 15 years in tv. 00:01:53.090 --> 00:01:55.340 And the last 10 of those I was covering. 00:01:55.700 --> 00:01:57.380 Mainly environmental issues. 00:01:57.410 --> 00:02:01.670 And I was working first, uh, in Baton Rouge, then in New Orleans. 00:02:01.670 --> 00:02:05.900 So I had this massive industrial corridor between Baton Rouge and 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:07.400 the mouth of the Mississippi River. 00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:11.810 So I was covering environmental issues, pollution issues, but of course I 00:02:11.810 --> 00:02:13.370 was also the first one on the scene. 00:02:13.370 --> 00:02:15.950 Every time there was a fire and explosion release. 00:02:16.160 --> 00:02:18.665 I have to deal with community activists, I have to deal with. 00:02:19.155 --> 00:02:21.468 All of the various protests that would happen. 00:02:21.768 --> 00:02:25.788 Greenpeace did a massive campaign down the Mississippi River when I was a reporter, 00:02:26.118 --> 00:02:30.768 and as I did my news reports every day I would see people say things to me that 00:02:30.768 --> 00:02:34.218 they should never say to anyone, things they wouldn't say to their competitors. 00:02:34.398 --> 00:02:39.108 They would say to me, holding the microphone with a TV camera, recording 00:02:39.108 --> 00:02:40.308 them and putting them on the air. 00:02:40.398 --> 00:02:41.123 And I didn't, oh my gosh. 00:02:41.123 --> 00:02:42.678 Didn't do it be mean or anything. 00:02:42.918 --> 00:02:45.288 I just did it because that was my job. 00:02:45.408 --> 00:02:46.428 I'm telling the story. 00:02:46.718 --> 00:02:49.298 I ask a question, they answer it poorly. 00:02:49.568 --> 00:02:52.658 So I started taking notes about how people did. 00:02:53.408 --> 00:02:57.998 Interviews so poorly and I started building a curriculum for media training. 00:02:58.298 --> 00:03:02.618 And when I left television, I was doing a lot of media training and as 00:03:02.618 --> 00:03:06.828 I would do the media training, my, my chemical clients needed it to be 00:03:06.828 --> 00:03:09.018 crisis communications media training. 00:03:09.078 --> 00:03:09.168 Mm-hmm. 00:03:09.408 --> 00:03:13.728 They weren't cutting ribbons or, or doing some happy Pappy PR news. 00:03:13.978 --> 00:03:15.898 They needed crisis communications. 00:03:16.288 --> 00:03:20.308 And as I started doing that, I started inventing new ways 00:03:20.308 --> 00:03:21.538 to help them to be better. 00:03:21.748 --> 00:03:26.638 So many people in media training teach a spokesperson how to have three key 00:03:26.638 --> 00:03:30.688 messages, and your first key message is safety is our top priority and our 00:03:30.688 --> 00:03:34.498 second key message, or our employees are our greatest asset, and our third. 00:03:34.803 --> 00:03:39.153 Key messages we give to the United Way, and then there's fire and explosion and 00:03:39.153 --> 00:03:43.323 they stand in front of a burning chemical plant and say, safety is our top priority. 00:03:43.533 --> 00:03:46.473 And I'm sitting there going, clearly not sparky, because 00:03:46.473 --> 00:03:48.033 I see flames over your head. 00:03:48.273 --> 00:03:50.523 And well, employees are our, our greatest asset. 00:03:50.523 --> 00:03:50.703 Well. 00:03:51.158 --> 00:03:53.228 Clearly not the ones who are dead today. 00:03:53.468 --> 00:03:54.423 And it was just it. 00:03:54.428 --> 00:03:58.538 It was comical to me and my real cynic and it was just comical 00:03:58.538 --> 00:04:00.698 how badly interviews went. 00:04:00.998 --> 00:04:06.068 So I left tv, started doing media training that went into writing crisis 00:04:06.068 --> 00:04:10.358 communications plans, and then I started building a a net a, a whole bunch of 00:04:10.358 --> 00:04:14.978 Word documents that were pre-written news releases so that we could get 00:04:14.978 --> 00:04:17.498 people faster in crisis communications. 00:04:17.738 --> 00:04:20.103 It's really about what you do on a clear, sunny day. 00:04:20.548 --> 00:04:22.018 To prepare for your worst day. 00:04:22.378 --> 00:04:26.278 That means not just all the safety stuff that you do, it has to 00:04:26.278 --> 00:04:30.178 be the communications with your employees, with the media, with your 00:04:30.178 --> 00:04:33.358 community, and what has happened. 00:04:33.358 --> 00:04:37.768 Now, we're coming 20th anniversary of Facebook being launched 00:04:38.338 --> 00:04:41.218 and companies still don't move at the speed of social media. 00:04:41.428 --> 00:04:46.995 So my goal has been to build systems and to do training for the chemical industry. 00:04:46.995 --> 00:04:48.042 Uh, so that. 00:04:48.512 --> 00:04:52.022 They're, they're able to get a statement out in three to five minutes 00:04:52.262 --> 00:04:53.762 instead of three to five hours. 00:04:53.822 --> 00:04:53.882 Wow. 00:04:54.032 --> 00:04:56.492 I'm constantly fighting this three to five hour. 00:04:56.642 --> 00:05:00.422 It just gets me so mad every time there's a big fire and explosion 00:05:00.422 --> 00:05:04.622 somewhere to watch three to five hours go by before a statement comes out. 00:05:04.712 --> 00:05:04.772 Yeah. 00:05:04.772 --> 00:05:10.892 So that's, that's my origin story to where I am today as the evangelist to 00:05:10.892 --> 00:05:12.771 prepare and to get statements out fast. 00:05:12.771 --> 00:05:13.272 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:05:13.272 --> 00:05:17.067 And that obviously led you to launching Situation Hub. 00:05:18.087 --> 00:05:20.667 Gerard: Yeah, situation Hub is a software company. 00:05:21.057 --> 00:05:25.190 I still consider it in startup phase, but I'm now in my fifth we launched 00:05:25.190 --> 00:05:29.750 during covid, and what Situation Hub does I always see certain problems 00:05:29.750 --> 00:05:33.290 and I'll go through 'em real fast, and I wanted to fix these problems, so. 00:05:33.635 --> 00:05:36.995 The crisis happens and there's a lack of information. 00:05:37.325 --> 00:05:41.105 You know, somebody may be able to call into command center with a radio, but 00:05:41.345 --> 00:05:44.735 too many organizations still rely on a calling tree, and if you've ever 00:05:44.735 --> 00:05:49.205 been on a calling tree, you repeat yourself 10 times to 10 people, and 00:05:49.205 --> 00:05:51.095 that slows the flow of information. 00:05:51.425 --> 00:05:55.685 Additionally, the communications team, if there is one, and the big companies 00:05:55.685 --> 00:05:59.135 have communications teams, the small wins have to have somebody else do it. 00:05:59.405 --> 00:05:59.645 But. 00:05:59.870 --> 00:06:03.050 The information to the communications team doesn't get to them in time. 00:06:03.350 --> 00:06:06.320 And then when it does get to them, they have to write a news release. 00:06:06.590 --> 00:06:10.910 And then after they spend 30 to 45 minutes writing the news release, they take it 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:15.890 into a bunch of non-writers, engineers, and they say, what do you think? 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.533 And those people tear it they fight over commas. 00:06:18.563 --> 00:06:20.033 They send it back for a second draft. 00:06:20.273 --> 00:06:23.093 Second draft comes, they go through a little bit more revision. 00:06:23.303 --> 00:06:27.203 The third draft goes out in three and a half hours pass, and what 00:06:27.203 --> 00:06:29.183 I invented with Situation Hub is. 00:06:29.513 --> 00:06:32.543 Log into a software system, pick what your event is. 00:06:32.543 --> 00:06:33.893 If it's a fire, choose fire. 00:06:34.103 --> 00:06:35.633 If it's a spill, choose spill. 00:06:35.633 --> 00:06:37.793 If a truck accident, choose truck accident. 00:06:37.793 --> 00:06:38.513 Workplace injury. 00:06:38.513 --> 00:06:39.623 Choose workplace injury. 00:06:39.953 --> 00:06:41.077 It feeds you questions. 00:06:41.177 --> 00:06:44.147 It's, it's all about the brilliant prompts that we wrote for it. 00:06:44.537 --> 00:06:48.947 And as you answer the questions, it is simultaneously writing the news release. 00:06:49.217 --> 00:06:51.497 Once you finish answering the questions, there's a little 00:06:51.497 --> 00:06:53.057 button that says, alert team. 00:06:53.387 --> 00:06:56.597 And that pushes a blast out to a dozen of your critical. 00:06:56.612 --> 00:06:59.552 Crisis communications team members and brings them all 00:06:59.552 --> 00:07:01.202 to a virtual situation room. 00:07:01.502 --> 00:07:07.502 So now everybody in seconds, minutes has situational awareness. 00:07:07.682 --> 00:07:11.337 So from the flash point until you answer the questions is. 00:07:12.347 --> 00:07:15.737 Three to five minutes, depending on, that's amazing how critical your vent is. 00:07:15.947 --> 00:07:19.577 And the number of fatalities hit that button that says Alert Team. 00:07:19.937 --> 00:07:21.827 Everyone has instant access. 00:07:22.127 --> 00:07:23.507 You read for correctness. 00:07:23.597 --> 00:07:25.157 Nothing is written in prose. 00:07:25.157 --> 00:07:26.957 Forget what your English teacher taught you. 00:07:27.287 --> 00:07:28.907 That's not what Situation Hub is. 00:07:29.147 --> 00:07:32.477 Situation, hubs, writing like a journalist, and it's just facts. 00:07:32.477 --> 00:07:33.047 Just facts. 00:07:33.347 --> 00:07:38.147 No nuance, no opinion, no putting lipstick on the pig, as I like to say. 00:07:38.387 --> 00:07:39.077 It covers. 00:07:39.322 --> 00:07:40.792 Who, what, when, where, why, and how. 00:07:40.792 --> 00:07:44.002 Without speculation, it provides proper empathy. 00:07:44.272 --> 00:07:47.692 And if it's all true, one button puts it on the internet. 00:07:47.932 --> 00:07:52.762 So now you can share that statement with the media, with your employees, with 00:07:52.762 --> 00:07:54.562 your community, and other stakeholders. 00:07:54.772 --> 00:07:59.602 So that has been my passion project and I actually invented it in my head 20 years 00:07:59.602 --> 00:08:04.642 ago, but I didn't build it initially because connectivity wasn't good enough. 00:08:04.912 --> 00:08:07.792 Now with cell phones and connectivity. 00:08:08.642 --> 00:08:12.572 There's almost no place you can go where you're not getting some sort of a signal. 00:08:12.782 --> 00:08:17.132 So Situation Hub is, you know, ideal on a nice computer screen, but it works 00:08:17.132 --> 00:08:19.322 well on your phone, works well anywhere. 00:08:19.622 --> 00:08:22.352 And instead of carrying here, I've, I've got one of my old 00:08:22.352 --> 00:08:24.062 crisis communications plans here. 00:08:24.067 --> 00:08:27.632 My gosh, that's what I, my right, that was a hundred pre-written news releases. 00:08:27.637 --> 00:08:29.492 That's a ream and a half paper. 00:08:29.822 --> 00:08:30.632 So instead of. 00:08:31.457 --> 00:08:35.837 Carrying all of that around, I can give you a 26 page crisis 00:08:35.837 --> 00:08:39.587 communications plan and instructions on how to use Situation Hub. 00:08:40.037 --> 00:08:45.287 And anybody anywhere in the world can be doing crisis communications 00:08:45.287 --> 00:08:46.607 at the speed of social media. 00:08:46.847 --> 00:08:50.747 That first statement will be out in five minutes or less if you practice 00:08:50.747 --> 00:08:54.917 and do it right, and then you can have a second statement with more details. 00:08:55.247 --> 00:08:56.087 Within one hour. 00:08:57.047 --> 00:08:57.110 So that's my passion. 00:08:57.115 --> 00:08:57.297 Wow, that's 00:08:57.297 --> 00:08:57.917 Victoria: really cool. 00:08:58.187 --> 00:09:02.117 So, I mean, that's really amazing and I think just the journey and of where 00:09:02.117 --> 00:09:06.347 you've been since, even since we talked the first time is pretty awesome. 00:09:06.603 --> 00:09:08.343 gonna dial us back a little bit. 00:09:08.415 --> 00:09:13.227 So you focus on helping companies with crisis communications, like 00:09:13.227 --> 00:09:18.387 what actually is a crisis or a crisis communication situation? 00:09:18.387 --> 00:09:19.392 When does it apply? 00:09:20.667 --> 00:09:24.897 Gerard: So the best way to define it is, is it something that will damage the 00:09:24.897 --> 00:09:31.647 company's revenue, reputation, and brand revenue First, reputation and brand. 00:09:31.947 --> 00:09:35.697 So, I'm in the public relations field and so many people in public relations 00:09:35.697 --> 00:09:41.997 preach reputation management, and that's why managers see PR as a soft skill. 00:09:43.137 --> 00:09:47.097 You have to connect the dots and realize that if your reputation is 00:09:47.097 --> 00:09:49.217 damaged, it's gonna damage your revenue. 00:09:49.305 --> 00:09:54.228 Uh, at this point in time, uh, I'll take a risk at looking at a small controversy 00:09:54.498 --> 00:09:56.388 that's in the news every day, right? 00:09:56.388 --> 00:09:58.818 So, uh, we are what years? 00:09:58.818 --> 00:10:03.168 This is 2025, and Donald Trump is president of the United States. 00:10:03.168 --> 00:10:06.318 That's this moment in time, and Elon Musk is helping him, 00:10:06.648 --> 00:10:08.688 and as Elon Musk does things. 00:10:09.443 --> 00:10:10.103 Government. 00:10:10.223 --> 00:10:11.513 He's hurting his brand. 00:10:11.783 --> 00:10:16.373 He's doing reputation damage, but as he does reputation damage, 00:10:16.373 --> 00:10:19.763 because of his political views, he's doing revenue damage. 00:10:19.763 --> 00:10:22.223 His stock is down 40, 50%. 00:10:22.613 --> 00:10:23.513 That's a crisis. 00:10:23.813 --> 00:10:28.373 That's a corporate crisis for a chemical person, it could be the fire, 00:10:28.583 --> 00:10:30.498 it could be the spill, it could be. 00:10:31.203 --> 00:10:34.923 An, an accident, a workplace injury, fatality, any of those 00:10:34.923 --> 00:10:36.693 day-to-day things that could happen. 00:10:36.903 --> 00:10:39.663 But it can also be every sort of natural disaster. 00:10:40.293 --> 00:10:43.143 It can be weather, events, hurricanes, freezes. 00:10:43.443 --> 00:10:47.870 Uh, we constantly see along the, the Gulf Coast and the Atlantic Coast that 00:10:47.870 --> 00:10:51.140 hurricanes come in and damage facilities. 00:10:52.040 --> 00:10:52.960 Causing releases. 00:10:53.270 --> 00:10:55.640 yeah, all of that stuff can be a crisis. 00:10:55.820 --> 00:11:01.580 You also have your, what I would call your executive white collar type crisis bribes. 00:11:02.675 --> 00:11:04.205 That on that sexual harassment. 00:11:04.535 --> 00:11:06.635 But you can also have cyber events. 00:11:06.875 --> 00:11:09.635 If you get cyber attack, that's a crisis. 00:11:09.905 --> 00:11:14.315 If you have social media blow up in your face, sometimes you post something 00:11:14.315 --> 00:11:19.005 you think is pleasant on social media and it creates a social media backlash. 00:11:19.215 --> 00:11:25.022 So all of these things can be considered a crisis Like one of my chemical 00:11:25.022 --> 00:11:30.032 companies using Situation Hub logs in there are more than 80 different 00:11:30.032 --> 00:11:34.102 templates that they can choose and, and if you go to situation hub.com 00:11:34.342 --> 00:11:38.932 and go to the chemical page, at the very bottom, you'll see little tabs 00:11:39.142 --> 00:11:40.702 with all of the very different. 00:11:41.032 --> 00:11:42.922 Things that could be a crisis. 00:11:43.312 --> 00:11:49.398 And that's just a perfect to do a hit list for yourself and see, geez, how 00:11:49.398 --> 00:11:51.438 many of these things could happen to me? 00:11:51.768 --> 00:11:53.922 How do we communicate quickly, uh, for 00:11:54.348 --> 00:11:56.118 Victoria: so I think that's super helpful and you've gone 00:11:56.118 --> 00:11:57.138 through some of the scenarios. 00:11:57.138 --> 00:12:00.948 So, uh, I'm gonna jump to, you know, two of the things that 00:12:00.948 --> 00:12:04.008 I personally see happening. 00:12:04.375 --> 00:12:06.505 may be hamper communications. 00:12:06.745 --> 00:12:11.365 In fact, it's, it's crisis communications, it's non-crisis communications. 00:12:11.365 --> 00:12:15.535 It's just communications of all varieties across companies, chemical 00:12:15.535 --> 00:12:16.915 companies, and other companies. 00:12:17.185 --> 00:12:18.405 Is, um, first of all. 00:12:18.875 --> 00:12:23.675 Incomplete information and this belief or desire that if I just wait 00:12:23.675 --> 00:12:27.695 a little bit longer, I have more information and it's gonna be better. 00:12:27.815 --> 00:12:34.252 then the second piece is this view of I can't communicate 00:12:34.282 --> 00:12:36.397 because I need to protect someone. 00:12:37.307 --> 00:12:43.462 Someone is someone or a company, or somebody's confidentiality and privacy. 00:12:44.452 --> 00:12:45.592 How do you respond to that? 00:12:47.012 --> 00:12:49.982 Gerard: First of all, you don't need to know everything to say something, 00:12:50.612 --> 00:12:54.722 saying something has happened and we don't know all the details, but 00:12:54.722 --> 00:12:58.472 when we know the details, we'll get them to you is a good statement. 00:12:58.862 --> 00:13:02.462 In public relations during a crisis, you should put out something 00:13:02.462 --> 00:13:04.082 that's called a holding statement. 00:13:04.322 --> 00:13:08.912 I, in Situation Hub, it's listed as a one first critical statement. 00:13:09.152 --> 00:13:12.752 It's the first template that shows up on the list of 80 vets. 00:13:13.967 --> 00:13:19.367 It generates something that's going to be about 10 to 15 sentences long 00:13:19.937 --> 00:13:24.598 that says what the event is, what time did it happen, where did it it. 00:13:24.643 --> 00:13:26.263 It won't speculate on the cause. 00:13:26.263 --> 00:13:29.323 There'll be a specific sentence that says, members of the team 00:13:29.323 --> 00:13:30.733 are still gathering information. 00:13:30.973 --> 00:13:32.893 When we know more, we'll pass it along to you. 00:13:33.253 --> 00:13:36.043 It'll cover whether anybody's dead, whether anybody's injured, 00:13:36.043 --> 00:13:37.303 whether anybody's missing. 00:13:37.783 --> 00:13:41.083 If necessary, it'll have an empathy statement to admonish 00:13:41.083 --> 00:13:42.163 the media not to believe. 00:13:42.163 --> 00:13:46.843 Everything you see on social media, it'll promise to do an update and it 00:13:46.843 --> 00:13:49.393 promises to give more information and. 00:13:49.843 --> 00:13:56.327 When this statement goes it reads 15 sentences are gonna be approximately 00:13:56.327 --> 00:13:58.217 90 seconds in reading time. 00:13:58.217 --> 00:14:01.397 This is something, you know, if you're an old TV guy, 15 00:14:01.397 --> 00:14:03.433 sentences sentence 90 seconds. 00:14:03.673 --> 00:14:09.478 So with 90 seconds of information given to the media, that gives 00:14:09.508 --> 00:14:11.558 them 90 seconds of facts. 00:14:12.163 --> 00:14:15.553 To say on the air rather than speculating. 00:14:15.763 --> 00:14:19.093 When I used to show up at chemical plants and there was no spokesperson. 00:14:19.768 --> 00:14:22.168 We'd started doing live shots immediately. 00:14:22.648 --> 00:14:25.798 I lived next to a chemical plant when I grew up. 00:14:25.798 --> 00:14:27.568 My dad works at the chemical plant. 00:14:27.838 --> 00:14:29.998 I put myself through college at the chemical plant. 00:14:30.268 --> 00:14:33.988 I can speculate a better, a little better than most of the other 00:14:33.988 --> 00:14:38.548 reporters, but I was still forced to speculate until someone gave me facts. 00:14:38.848 --> 00:14:44.968 By giving a holding statement, a first critical statement, you end the drama. 00:14:45.253 --> 00:14:49.123 Of the speculation and they'll repeat it over and over again 00:14:49.123 --> 00:14:50.233 because you gave them that. 00:14:50.623 --> 00:14:54.133 And then with Situation Hub, you can go back into the app, you 00:14:54.133 --> 00:14:57.133 create second statement that's going to have more details. 00:14:57.523 --> 00:14:59.803 And so you don't have to know everything. 00:15:00.013 --> 00:15:04.063 But by the time you start creating that second statement, let's say 20, 00:15:04.063 --> 00:15:09.526 30 minutes has passed, you know a lot more now regarding privacy issues, 00:15:10.053 --> 00:15:13.353 in my app it is built to where. 00:15:13.728 --> 00:15:14.382 It covers. 00:15:14.895 --> 00:15:19.925 Fatality, uh, injuries missing people, and it's built for mass casualty. 00:15:19.925 --> 00:15:23.195 You can kill more than 20, you can injure more than 20. 00:15:23.405 --> 00:15:27.785 You can have more than 20 missing in this news release, but it always gives you the 00:15:27.785 --> 00:15:31.865 option to either give their name or not give their name, to give their age or not 00:15:31.865 --> 00:15:35.495 give their name to say what their injuries are and not say what their injuries are 00:15:35.675 --> 00:15:37.565 to say what hospital they're going to. 00:15:37.865 --> 00:15:40.955 So you're able to not violate hipaa. 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:45.030 And I think the world became more sensitive to HIPAA during covid 00:15:45.300 --> 00:15:49.817 when, the, the internal lawyers all said, you can't say Bob has covid. 00:15:49.817 --> 00:15:51.887 That's a violation of of hipaa. 00:15:52.067 --> 00:15:54.107 You can only say Bob's not at work today. 00:15:54.377 --> 00:16:00.347 So the privacy issues are all addressed in my software platform, 00:16:00.347 --> 00:16:05.837 certainly, and if there are still executives who think that's a problem. 00:16:06.232 --> 00:16:11.422 They need to address it on a clear, sunny day and not battle it out in the crisis 00:16:11.422 --> 00:16:13.642 command center on the day of the crisis. 00:16:13.972 --> 00:16:14.122 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:14.332 --> 00:16:18.982 Gerard: So much about what you do before the event happens and, and you were 00:16:18.982 --> 00:16:20.992 asking what crisis communications is. 00:16:21.352 --> 00:16:24.142 You know, crisis communications comes in two forms. 00:16:24.502 --> 00:16:28.852 If an organization does something bad and they try to cover it up and then the 00:16:28.852 --> 00:16:31.702 story gets uncovered by a whistleblower 00:16:31.912 --> 00:16:32.002 Victoria: or 00:16:32.002 --> 00:16:35.417 Gerard: by an investigative reporter, then you have to try to. 00:16:35.917 --> 00:16:37.687 Put what I call lipstick on the pig. 00:16:37.957 --> 00:16:40.297 It's an ugly pig putting lipstick on. 00:16:40.297 --> 00:16:45.037 It doesn't make it any uglier, and you have to do so much more work 00:16:45.337 --> 00:16:49.567 to repair the revenue, reputation, and, and brand on the back end. 00:16:49.897 --> 00:16:53.347 My specialty, even though I do some of that stuff, in fact, 00:16:53.347 --> 00:16:54.787 I've got three clients right now. 00:16:54.787 --> 00:16:58.897 It's just like this year has been crazy with people wanting me to fix the broken. 00:16:59.407 --> 00:17:04.417 What I don't really specialize in is keeping it from ever breaking. 00:17:04.867 --> 00:17:06.727 Don't let the crisis happen. 00:17:07.027 --> 00:17:09.697 And if the crisis does happen, hey, guess what? 00:17:09.847 --> 00:17:16.027 We've got 80 plus news releases ready to communicate in three to five minutes 00:17:16.177 --> 00:17:18.127 so that you get ahead of the story. 00:17:18.457 --> 00:17:23.893 And, and one other thing that's happening is when companies use these scripts. 00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:26.210 Traditionally a reporter would show up. 00:17:26.210 --> 00:17:27.290 I know I always did that. 00:17:27.800 --> 00:17:31.940 If nobody's talking to me, I go knock on the trailer near chemical plant 00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:33.770 and I interview whoever comes out. 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:39.260 So Bubba comes out in his t-shirt and his overalls and I ask what happens? 00:17:39.260 --> 00:17:42.110 And he says, well, I saw the plant and blow it up real good. 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:43.610 And that actually happened to me. 00:17:43.775 --> 00:17:47.600 I actually have a soundbite of guys saying it blow up real good. 00:17:47.600 --> 00:17:49.520 I used it a lot of my, my training classes. 00:17:50.050 --> 00:17:52.930 But then I'm talking to somebody who doesn't have the facts. 00:17:53.350 --> 00:17:53.410 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:53.860 Now, Bubba 00:17:53.860 --> 00:17:57.520 Gerard: today is on social media, right, Bubba? 00:17:57.850 --> 00:17:59.740 I don't even have to go knock on the door. 00:18:00.940 --> 00:18:04.450 with Situation Hub, what I'm doing now is I'm producing a script 00:18:05.110 --> 00:18:09.160 and I'm training people to read scripts in media training class. 00:18:09.550 --> 00:18:14.860 When they read those scripts, we're getting 50 to 75%. 00:18:15.385 --> 00:18:21.145 Of what our spokespeople say, ending up word for word in the final news story, 00:18:21.865 --> 00:18:27.055 and they're quoting our spokespeople four and five times on camera. 00:18:27.565 --> 00:18:32.545 Therefore, they run out of time and they don't have time to go find Bubba. 00:18:32.995 --> 00:18:38.035 And if a TV story is 90 seconds long, and I've produced a 92nd script. 00:18:38.695 --> 00:18:39.535 Situation hub. 00:18:39.745 --> 00:18:40.465 Hey, guess what? 00:18:40.645 --> 00:18:42.355 I just wrote the reporter story. 00:18:42.505 --> 00:18:42.685 Victoria: Mm-hmm. 00:18:42.925 --> 00:18:43.015 And you and 00:18:43.015 --> 00:18:48.055 Gerard: I were talking, uh, previously about reporters today 00:18:48.655 --> 00:18:50.905 are often very young veterans. 00:18:51.025 --> 00:18:53.005 People like me aren't in the business anymore. 00:18:53.485 --> 00:18:56.245 They weren't paying us to stay in the business and we went elsewhere. 00:18:56.605 --> 00:19:00.895 But when these young reporters come in, they have no background on chemicals. 00:19:01.075 --> 00:19:02.725 They just think all chemicals are bad. 00:19:02.990 --> 00:19:07.640 They don't realize how many chemicals were in that, that the microphone 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.737 they're the cell phone, they're holding all of the equipment they 00:19:10.737 --> 00:19:12.627 use their closed, their automobile. 00:19:12.837 --> 00:19:17.487 People are ignorant when it comes to what our chemicals. 00:19:18.392 --> 00:19:19.592 What are their good uses? 00:19:19.892 --> 00:19:22.652 They immediately go to the fear of what chemicals are. 00:19:22.832 --> 00:19:27.692 So many reporters doing stories in the chemical industry or ill-informed. 00:19:28.232 --> 00:19:30.812 And then you and I were also discussing how some of them are 00:19:30.812 --> 00:19:34.262 just flat, lazy, and they want you to do your homework for them. 00:19:34.562 --> 00:19:35.582 Well, guess what kids? 00:19:35.942 --> 00:19:37.352 I did your homework. 00:19:37.532 --> 00:19:38.762 I wrote the term paper. 00:19:38.942 --> 00:19:40.292 It's called a news release. 00:19:40.642 --> 00:19:41.357 Here it is. 00:19:41.627 --> 00:19:45.587 And now they're using 50 to 75% of everything We give 'em 00:19:45.917 --> 00:19:47.327 word for word when we do it. 00:19:47.327 --> 00:19:47.387 Victoria: Yeah. 00:19:47.657 --> 00:19:51.470 Gerard: So in the big picture that brings all of those pieces together. 00:19:51.610 --> 00:19:52.570 Victoria: It's pretty amazing. 00:19:52.570 --> 00:19:55.210 And as you noted, we were talking about this, I mean, I've been 00:19:55.210 --> 00:19:59.770 in a couple of articles recently and, um, quite liberally quoted. 00:20:00.130 --> 00:20:02.560 But again, if, if you give somebody. 00:20:03.505 --> 00:20:06.985 Good, coherent, solid information, they're gonna use it. 00:20:07.075 --> 00:20:08.245 Then they don't have to create it. 00:20:08.485 --> 00:20:09.265 'cause Yeah. 00:20:09.385 --> 00:20:13.165 You know, ideally a reporter should not be a creative writer. 00:20:13.405 --> 00:20:15.175 They should be a reporter. 00:20:15.175 --> 00:20:19.975 And that's, you know, ultimately in times of crisis, uh, and even non-crisis. 00:20:19.975 --> 00:20:21.835 We want accuracy in our reporting. 00:20:23.080 --> 00:20:23.280 Absolutely. 00:20:23.310 --> 00:20:24.295 What about Absolutely. 00:20:24.300 --> 00:20:29.122 So, so Gerard the other thing I see happening, maybe just inhibits 00:20:29.122 --> 00:20:31.042 the whole time aspect of it. 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:35.145 and certainly I could see where this is true with smaller companies 00:20:35.175 --> 00:20:38.865 is not knowing, you know, kind of the who's on first who gets to make 00:20:38.865 --> 00:20:43.019 that, you know, approve the press release, approve the statement, you 00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:46.155 having that person ready to speak. 00:20:46.290 --> 00:20:48.835 see that happening a lot or has that been sorted out? 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.120 Gerard: No, it's never sorted out because most people don't They, they wing it, 00:20:53.210 --> 00:20:54.950 and when you wing it, you crash and burn. 00:20:55.220 --> 00:20:59.450 So a crisis communications plan is something that you write on 00:20:59.450 --> 00:21:03.050 a clear, sunny day that outlines everything that's gonna happen from 00:21:03.050 --> 00:21:05.270 flashpoint to end of the news cycle. 00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:09.320 Now sometimes that news cycle is three or four hours, sometimes 00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:11.120 it's 12 hours, sometimes it's 24. 00:21:11.450 --> 00:21:15.590 Sometimes it stays and it's weeks depending on what it is, and there 00:21:15.590 --> 00:21:17.515 is a cadence that you have to follow. 00:21:18.605 --> 00:21:22.485 But you also have to who's gonna gather the information about the crisis? 00:21:23.055 --> 00:21:24.075 Who's gonna share it? 00:21:24.345 --> 00:21:25.725 How do you bring the team together? 00:21:25.725 --> 00:21:28.302 What's the approval Who are your spokespeople? 00:21:28.602 --> 00:21:32.262 Because in the early moments of the crisis, I can't send 00:21:32.712 --> 00:21:34.272 a subject matter expert out. 00:21:35.082 --> 00:21:39.642 I need to send a PR person out to read the first statement because my main managers. 00:21:40.062 --> 00:21:43.332 Need to be managing the incident, not managing the media. 00:21:43.662 --> 00:21:47.052 You know, I always said that about Tony Hayward in the BP crisis, Tony 00:21:47.052 --> 00:21:51.225 Hayward should have been managing the business and, and the, the crisis of 00:21:51.225 --> 00:21:53.055 the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. 00:21:53.475 --> 00:21:56.295 Instead of being on camera every day trying to manage the media 00:21:56.505 --> 00:21:59.775 where he royally screwed up, lost his job, damage to the revenue, 00:21:59.775 --> 00:22:02.205 reputation, and grants even more so. 00:22:02.550 --> 00:22:05.310 Picking spokespeople means you need to have bench strength. 00:22:05.850 --> 00:22:09.840 You need to know when to send out a public relations spokesperson, 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.490 when to send out someone from operations, subject matter expert. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.150 Many companies think only the CEO should speak and that we speak with 00:22:18.150 --> 00:22:22.230 one voice, and it's my deep voice because I'm the CEO and I'm old. 00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:22.560 Victoria: Yeah, 00:22:22.650 --> 00:22:24.960 Gerard: and no, that's not true because. 00:22:25.455 --> 00:22:29.760 If that person messes up, who cleans up their mistake, and I usually, 00:22:29.980 --> 00:22:33.845 I, I long ago realized that the CEO comes out for something that is 00:22:33.845 --> 00:22:38.345 not a super high level crisis, then it makes the crisis appear bigger. 00:22:38.945 --> 00:22:42.807 But if there is empathy to be conveyed, that's when you bring 00:22:42.887 --> 00:22:45.742 out the big cheese, the CEO Got it. 00:22:45.742 --> 00:22:48.922 Uh, prior to that, a subject matter expert works. 00:22:49.192 --> 00:22:51.232 So you've gotta have multiple people. 00:22:51.517 --> 00:22:54.442 That you can turn to that have all been trained. 00:22:54.547 --> 00:22:56.317 It doesn't come easy. 00:22:56.617 --> 00:23:00.719 Talking to the media is like no other interview you will ever do, 00:23:00.719 --> 00:23:02.467 and, and the questions are what? 00:23:02.527 --> 00:23:03.847 Kill people, right? 00:23:03.847 --> 00:23:03.907 Yeah. 00:23:04.237 --> 00:23:08.617 You can come out and make a statement, but it's your questions where you say 00:23:08.617 --> 00:23:11.392 one wrong word and everything goes bad. 00:23:12.362 --> 00:23:18.602 What I built into situation hub was sentences that are bulletproof and 00:23:18.752 --> 00:23:23.972 sentences in a statement that answer questions before they get asked. 00:23:23.972 --> 00:23:24.032 Yeah. 00:23:24.332 --> 00:23:29.402 So for example, uh, a news release might say, we can confirm there is one fatality. 00:23:29.762 --> 00:23:30.122 Okay? 00:23:30.122 --> 00:23:33.242 If you say that, you'll be asked, who is it? 00:23:33.482 --> 00:23:34.622 Or you're given their name, 00:23:35.012 --> 00:23:35.102 Victoria: or the 00:23:35.102 --> 00:23:37.922 Gerard: employee, contractor, visitor, what was their age? 00:23:38.887 --> 00:23:43.597 If my news release and situation hub says, we can confirm there is one 00:23:43.597 --> 00:23:47.947 fatality, however, we're not able to release any additional information until 00:23:47.947 --> 00:23:49.687 the next of can have been notified. 00:23:49.927 --> 00:23:54.217 That extra second half of the sentence takes away three 00:23:54.383 --> 00:23:54.650 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:54.650 --> 00:23:59.408 So one of the things in here, okay, as A non reporter, I was gonna say a non-media 00:23:59.408 --> 00:24:03.368 person, and yet I consider myself a media person at this point with my podcast in 00:24:03.368 --> 00:24:05.228 the, the media business I'm building. 00:24:05.258 --> 00:24:05.738 Right? 00:24:06.098 --> 00:24:08.943 Um, but as a non reporter, I. 00:24:08.943 --> 00:24:14.858 I, you know, just a lay person when it comes to many of the news 00:24:14.858 --> 00:24:16.478 releases, the articles and stuff. 00:24:16.748 --> 00:24:21.968 I gotta be honest, I mean, like when they say company spokesperson, blah, blah, 00:24:21.968 --> 00:24:25.838 blah, said, oh heck, they said nothing. 00:24:26.168 --> 00:24:27.188 Let's move along. 00:24:27.722 --> 00:24:34.142 I'm actually, personally, I'm often quite disappointed now in the immediate. 00:24:34.492 --> 00:24:35.722 In the immediate moment. 00:24:35.902 --> 00:24:36.412 You know what? 00:24:36.412 --> 00:24:37.312 Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:37.372 --> 00:24:38.692 There was an incident. 00:24:39.051 --> 00:24:40.212 we are addressing it. 00:24:40.212 --> 00:24:44.442 We can confirm that there was an incident that that immediate confirmation. 00:24:45.052 --> 00:24:45.952 Great. 00:24:46.312 --> 00:24:51.052 But when three hours or six hours or 24 hours has gone on and it's still 00:24:51.262 --> 00:24:53.377 well, company spokesperson, I'm like, 00:24:54.357 --> 00:24:56.842 Gerard: so, so one of the problem, I'm disappointed it's a reputation 00:24:56.842 --> 00:24:57.562 Victoria: issue at that point. 00:24:57.562 --> 00:24:57.952 For me, 00:24:58.087 --> 00:24:59.782 Gerard: it's, it's a public relations issue. 00:24:59.932 --> 00:25:00.172 Right. 00:25:00.172 --> 00:25:00.352 Okay. 00:25:00.352 --> 00:25:04.222 Because it happens, it happens in PR school, in college where they teach 00:25:04.222 --> 00:25:09.542 you the old method of writing a news release uh, always calls for a quote. 00:25:10.022 --> 00:25:13.262 From a high level executive, that's complete bs. 00:25:13.502 --> 00:25:19.052 You don't have to track him down and, and everybody writes these made up quotes, and 00:25:19.052 --> 00:25:23.792 then it kills more time getting the guy to say, can, can we say that you said this? 00:25:24.002 --> 00:25:25.652 Then he's gonna rewrite what? 00:25:25.937 --> 00:25:29.027 They said, he said that he now wants to say differently. 00:25:29.177 --> 00:25:29.267 Right. 00:25:29.297 --> 00:25:33.827 And it just eats up time and, and when I first rolled out Situation 00:25:33.827 --> 00:25:37.427 Hub, that was actually one of the things I got from PR people was, 00:25:37.607 --> 00:25:39.197 well, there's no quote in here. 00:25:39.707 --> 00:25:41.327 Every sentence is quotable. 00:25:42.017 --> 00:25:45.797 And now that we're seeing companies use situation have been a crisis 00:25:46.217 --> 00:25:49.637 and they're pulling four and five soundbites, not only are they're 00:25:49.637 --> 00:25:53.297 pulling four and five soundbites that the person read from the script. 00:25:53.807 --> 00:25:58.847 They were pulling the same soundbites from TV station to TV station to TV 00:25:58.847 --> 00:26:05.507 station, and that was always because I know there are certain catnip sort of 00:26:05.897 --> 00:26:09.257 phrases that I put it in the statement. 00:26:09.707 --> 00:26:13.787 I promise the reporter will use it because as a reporter I was 00:26:13.787 --> 00:26:15.227 trained to interview people. 00:26:15.677 --> 00:26:16.877 Look for great quotes. 00:26:17.162 --> 00:26:20.402 Once I have a quote, I have to build a series of sentences to get 00:26:20.402 --> 00:26:23.462 me to that quote, and then I have to build a series of sentences 00:26:23.462 --> 00:26:25.172 to transition out of that quote. 00:26:25.952 --> 00:26:31.052 So what I'm doing in my script is all of the transitions are built 00:26:31.052 --> 00:26:33.332 in, all of the quotes are built in. 00:26:33.632 --> 00:26:37.172 You don't have to have quotation marks, a comma in Bob Smith's 00:26:37.172 --> 00:26:39.062 name for it to be quoted. 00:26:39.617 --> 00:26:43.187 They're going to quote a company spokesperson said, or the company 00:26:43.187 --> 00:26:44.717 said, just very generically. 00:26:44.717 --> 00:26:44.777 Yeah. 00:26:45.047 --> 00:26:48.467 The company said they would conduct an investigation to find out what 00:26:48.467 --> 00:26:51.707 happened, how it happened, and how we keep it from happening again. 00:26:51.712 --> 00:26:51.872 Mm. 00:26:52.877 --> 00:26:54.317 That gets quoted every time. 00:26:55.007 --> 00:26:55.367 Victoria: I know another 00:26:55.367 --> 00:26:58.097 Gerard: statement that gets quoted every time is we'd like to thank the 00:26:58.097 --> 00:27:00.497 responders and members of the community. 00:27:00.497 --> 00:27:00.557 Yeah. 00:27:00.887 --> 00:27:03.527 All of my thank you statements get quoted every time. 00:27:03.797 --> 00:27:04.217 Victoria: Yeah, and, 00:27:04.337 --> 00:27:07.277 Gerard: and there are so many, there are so many catnip nuggets. 00:27:07.907 --> 00:27:11.207 That I've built in, it eliminates what you see. 00:27:11.207 --> 00:27:12.647 And I'm glad you've seen this. 00:27:12.857 --> 00:27:14.177 I'm glad you've called this out. 00:27:14.477 --> 00:27:15.647 It is stupid. 00:27:15.707 --> 00:27:20.837 It is insane when time is of the essence and revenue, reputation, 00:27:20.837 --> 00:27:22.037 and brand are on the line. 00:27:22.217 --> 00:27:26.957 Why would you waste time getting BS that no one believes Anyway? 00:27:27.047 --> 00:27:31.187 And the other thing I want you to notice is, is as all of us go forward, 00:27:31.187 --> 00:27:35.897 everybody listening to this show and watching this program take a shot. 00:27:36.227 --> 00:27:39.707 Every morning when you hear someone say, safety is our top priority. 00:27:40.067 --> 00:27:43.547 I'm so tired of the phrase, safety is our top priority, 00:27:43.937 --> 00:27:45.617 or we're committed to safety. 00:27:45.947 --> 00:27:46.667 It's not true. 00:27:47.582 --> 00:27:50.312 'cause if you were, y'all wouldn't be having the problem today. 00:27:50.522 --> 00:27:54.872 Y'all wouldn't be on the CBS evening news and the NBC nightly news and all the other 00:27:55.016 --> 00:27:56.435 Victoria: Yeah, I, I'm with you on that. 00:27:56.435 --> 00:28:00.155 I, um, I worked for Shelf for a very long time. 00:28:00.155 --> 00:28:02.435 A big part of my career and great company. 00:28:02.705 --> 00:28:06.245 But it got to be where, well, you know, well, let's start with safety. 00:28:06.485 --> 00:28:07.955 Let's start with our results. 00:28:08.067 --> 00:28:10.685 when it is a platitude. 00:28:11.090 --> 00:28:12.980 It becomes a bit meaningless. 00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:16.850 And I think that is, that's the message that needs to be. 00:28:17.030 --> 00:28:17.900 It is important. 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:25.490 We want everyone to go home safely from work every day, be present safely. 00:28:25.490 --> 00:28:26.300 Go home safely. 00:28:26.450 --> 00:28:27.200 Absolutely. 00:28:27.410 --> 00:28:31.340 No doubt about it, but it's used in such a platitude kind of a 00:28:31.340 --> 00:28:33.860 way that it loses its power. 00:28:34.690 --> 00:28:35.470 it loses power. 00:28:35.860 --> 00:28:38.827 So, so Gerard this has been really good and, You know, if you were gonna 00:28:38.827 --> 00:28:44.503 leave people with one message for, you communications, what would it be? 00:28:45.448 --> 00:28:47.638 Gerard: We live in the age of social media. 00:28:47.668 --> 00:28:51.928 If you are not getting a statement out in under 15 minutes, 00:28:52.168 --> 00:28:53.308 you're doing it all wrong. 00:28:53.758 --> 00:28:57.658 And I would say that if you're not doing what needs to be done on a clear, 00:28:57.658 --> 00:29:02.848 sunny day to be your best on your worst day, then you are missing the boat. 00:29:03.358 --> 00:29:06.508 Chemicals can be handled safely every day. 00:29:06.868 --> 00:29:10.708 They're used by consumers every day, but on the day when 00:29:10.708 --> 00:29:12.058 something goes wrong, no matter. 00:29:12.673 --> 00:29:17.263 What your safety culture is, it's that thing that goes wrong, that's often 00:29:17.263 --> 00:29:20.533 beyond your control that creates a crisis. 00:29:20.803 --> 00:29:25.003 That damages your revenue, reputation, and brand, and I wanna make sure 00:29:25.003 --> 00:29:26.173 that doesn't happen for you. 00:29:26.563 --> 00:29:27.133 So Awesome. 00:29:27.133 --> 00:29:29.765 It's all about preparation and having the right tools in 00:29:29.765 --> 00:29:30.017 Victoria: Cool. 00:29:30.077 --> 00:29:30.617 That's great. 00:29:31.167 --> 00:29:33.827 Gerard thank you so much for joining me today on the Chemical Show. 00:29:34.487 --> 00:29:35.207 Good seeing you. 00:29:35.267 --> 00:29:35.717 Take care. 00:29:35.717 --> 00:29:38.297 Absolutely, and thanks everyone else for joining us. 00:29:38.297 --> 00:29:41.207 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:29:41.207 --> 00:29:42.742 talk with you again soon. 00:29:44.242 --> 00:29:46.462 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:29:46.792 --> 00:29:51.292 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:29:51.532 --> 00:29:54.922 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:29:55.912 --> 00:29:59.242 For more insights, visit the Chemical show.com 00:29:59.722 --> 00:30:01.207 and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:30:01.972 --> 00:30:05.932 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:30:05.932 --> 00:30:08.092 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:30:08.272 --> 00:30:11.452 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:30:11.752 --> 00:30:13.522 shaping the future of the industry. 00:30:13.912 --> 00:30:14.632 We'll see you soon.