Carol Cox: How do you make the shift from performer to
keynote speaker? My guest is Andy Nunn,
and we recently worked on his keynote talk.
So we're going to dive into exactly how we
did this. On this episode of the Speaking
Your Brand podcast.
Hi, and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand
podcast. I'm your host,
Carol Cox. Today my guest is Andy Nunn.
He is a leadership keynote speaker and a
mentalist. Now, if you're not sure what that
is, he's going to tell us in just a moment
who helps his audiences rethink the stories
they tell themselves so they can get,
as he puts it, wonderfully uncomfortable in
the best way. Now, because he has a
background as a magician and a mentalist and
a performer, he brings these incredible
audience engagement activities into his
talks. And so we recently worked together to
transform what was already a really engaging
talk into a bigger thought leadership message
and a bigger keynote.
And so we're going to talk today about how
he's grown his speaking career so quickly,
how he prepares for his speaking engagements,
including nervous energy,
what he does with that and what he's doing
right now to book more speaking engagements.
Andy, welcome to the podcast.
Andy Nunn: Thank you Carol, it's great to be here.
Yeah, it's been it's been an awesome journey
over the last, I think about six weeks,
seven weeks since I first reached out to you.
But I've had such a great time. Thank you.
Carol Cox: Yes. Likewise. Well, I've enjoyed really
getting to know you and to I've watched a
number of your speaking engagements because
you always record them, at least on your
phone, which is great, but I always encourage
speakers to do that so that you can obviously
watch it back, but then so I can watch it.
So I've gotten to see you evolve just in the
short amount of time as you're really putting
the reps in because you're doing two,
three, sometimes four speaking engagements a
week, which is incredible because you're able
to figure out what is working,
what's not what's what sections maybe you
need to change around and getting feedback
from the audience, which is invaluable.
Andy Nunn: Yes, the rate has just been unbelievable,
to be honest. It's I've obviously come from a
different background, like the market that
I'm working in, I've worked in for since
about 2019.
And that was when I first went full time as a
as an entertainer. Like before that, I worked
in sales. I was a sales manager.
I was quite successful doing really well.
But I always had this nagging idea in the
back of my head that I wanted to pursue my
childhood dream of being a magician,
and I took the leap in 2019.
Obviously, I couldn't claim to be psychic
because Covid happened about six months
later, and no magician or no one in the arts
world would ever quit if they were psychic.
And yeah, so that was tough.
But then I over the years,
everything grew. I think after Covid,
it helped a lot of creative people to come
back, which was great.
Everyone wanted to be entertained,
and magicians and mentalists weren't on any
banned list in Australia.
We were. So you weren't allowed singers or
dancers, but you allowed magicians.
So we did quite well on that weird stage
after when things were coming back and
opening up again. And then,
yeah, so I've worked in the corporate market.
So I made I did my TEDx talk in 2020.
No, 2023. That was by chance.
I never, I never thought about being a
speaker. It was never on my radar.
And I just performed at an event and the a
lady that I performed to happened to be a
producer at TEDx. And she said,
I don't remember it, but people say things to
you when you're an entertainer. They're like,
oh, you'd be great on TV,
or I can help you do this.
And she said, I, you do a talk.
And I was like, yeah, sure, sounds like it
sounds great. But before I knew I was having
coffee with her, and then I was on a list of
Ted speakers and I had nine months to do a
talk. And that was a journey that was I'm not
gonna lie, it was one of the hardest moments
of my life. And then before I knew it,
I was doing more talks.
And then I started. The more I did it,
the more repetitions I got. I was like,
actually, this is quite interesting. And then
at the end of last year,
it took me 6 or 7 years to build up my magic
career. And I had this goal of wanting to be
like the number one in sort of Australia as
like a sort of mentalist and performer. And I
pretty much got there in terms of the
corporate market, not in terms of like
celebrity status or anything like that. I'm
never looking for that,
but just in terms of being successful and
having a good string of clients and things
like that, and income and having the show
that I wanted to be on and perform for the
clients, the top clients in the country,
I wanted to have them and I achieved it.
And then I didn't really know where to go
after that and I was feeling a bit burnt out.
I did 40 events in six weeks at the end of
2025. 40. Yeah, yeah.
Carol Cox: Wow. That's a lot.
Andy Nunn: 40 Christmas events.
And I knew that I was having a kid and I knew
things were going to change. And so I made
the decision that I can't juggle both and I'm
going to go all in. And that was only in
December and it's now March.
And I, I call it like burning the boats.
And I did that with magic as well.
I jumped in before I was ready.
Carol Cox: And so Andy, so far this year,
so we're probably about two and a half months
into 2026. And you've done,
I don't know, well, probably 20 plus speaking
engagements.
Andy Nunn: Yeah. Yeah. Well, if you think about the week
I had six the week that my baby was due,
which I would never recommend, that was I had
two on the day I had to cancel two speaking
engagements. They all did. They all knew that
I had a baby due.
But I had two. On the day that I had to
cancel, I had a referral.
I had people's backups.
And so yeah, it's, it's gone kind of crazy.
Like I, I think people,
because I'm so unique to the market and I do
have all that credibility in the back of some
really big clients. I've worked with Google,
Amazon, all those sort of things. And I've
got lots of reviews that come from keynotes
and come from on stage and speaking.
It's all part of my brand.
It's the transition has been much easier than
if I just started cold.
So yeah, jumping in hasn't been as difficult.
But yeah, people, I realized that there was a
lot to learn and I have in three months.
It feels like a lifetime.
It honestly does. I feel like I've learned so
much in three months.
Carol Cox: Well you have and like we talked about,
you've been putting the reps in, which has
been great for the learning process.
So let's back up a moment and tell us what a
mentalist is, because then I want you to
describe a little bit of some of the
activities that you put into your keynote,
because I think that this does really set you
apart as far as the type of keynote speaker
that events are looking for.
Andy Nunn: Yeah. So a mentalist is like a sort of brand
of being a magician.
So you think about a magician.
They, we all have a story about a magician.
We all say one of our uncles was doing a
magic trick, disappearing a coin or something
like this. Magic's the idea of making things
disappear. But we're in more sleight of hand
conjuring, where mentalism is a bit strange.
It gives the illusion of a sixth sense that
you can read minds.
And the difference with Mentalist is that
sometimes they say what they do is real,
so they often claim to have psychic powers,
or they'll claim to be like Sherlock Holmes.
They can use deduction powers to see the
cross on your shoulder and know what you have
for breakfast and know.
Somehow, know the names of all your family
members based on your behavior and your.
Micro expressions and stuff like this.
I guess the truth is you're an actor.
You're an actor playing the role of a
mentalist, a mind reader.
But with magic and mentalism,
it's kind of strange because there's no like
third wall. You're in it.
You're part of the play.
If you're the you're not sitting in the
audience, you're actually part of the story.
I love using magic as a metaphor to explain
how the mind works.
You think of what magic does.
Either something transforms or something
changes or something transports.
All of this is perfect language for things
that happen in life.
So you can use a moment of magic to describe
a situation that we're going through, like
some sort of personal transformation or some
sort of problem we're trying to solve.
And that's amazing.
And it engages the whole audience And I love
that.
Carol Cox: Yes. Well, and to your point about taking the
magic that you do or some of the activities,
is using it as a metaphor or using it to
illuminate thinking.
So I the big part of your talk,
Andy, and I know something that you're
personally interested in, which is why this
is the topic of your keynote is getting the
audience to think about their thinking or
metacognition because.
So and you talk about this in your talk with
your. The three key points is that so often
we just kind of float around in the world and
we never even think why we're having certain
thoughts or certain reactions or certain
things that we're doing.
And so you're using the different activities
that you integrate that you used to do as a
mentalist, and you're using them in your
keynote. Sure.
It's entertaining for the audience, right? It
brings up the energy.
It's fun for them, but you're doing it for a
certain point. And I know that clearly you
had this background as an entertainer.
You're very comfortable with it.
You hadn't been doing it for a number of
years. So what surprised you about the
differences between entertaining an audience?
So just being a mentalist and not a keynote
speaker versus thinking about the audience in
your role as a keynote speaker and what you
were going to provide to them?
Andy Nunn: Yeah. So the biggest difference is with
magic, you can be a bad magician and
entertain people. So you can get by on magic
and you don't actually have to have good
performance skills.
And because the magic itself is like mind
blowing. You're like, oh my God, that's
incredible. And with keynote speaking,
that's not the case.
If you can't have a clear message,
and if you don't rehearse and have that
delivery down and be very clear in the sort
of messaging and the structure and all that
sort of stuff, then you're going to just lose
their engagement. People are going to switch
off and they're going to check their phones.
They're going to start yawning. They're going
to start making noises in the audience and
stuff like this. And you can just see them
moving around. And I realized those moments
where I was losing people,
where magic, I could just be like,
now look at this, and I could grab their
attention. But when I was just speaking,
I didn't have those tools yet.
I didn't know how to draw them back in.
And how do I engage everyone without having
this prop that I could hide behind?
And it was a big because when I would go into
those moments and be like, oh, now I'm going
to do the speaking part,
I like separated them in my mind where I'm
like, okay, this is the magic part.
And you would see my energy change.
I'd be like, super excited.
I'm doing the magic part. I know everyone's
going to do this bit. And then when I go into
the speaking, I could feel the nerves coming
back in. I'm like, oh my God,
now they're just judging me.
They're not like, it's actually me here,
not the mentalist version of myself who's
being judged. So it was such an interesting
thing to go through.
I had to like, separate that part of me.
And it takes time.
It was actually really a lot more difficult
than I imagined, and a lot of it was probably
internal. There was a lot of my own imposter
syndromes and things like that that were
going with it. But yeah,
I realized that to be to do well at speaking,
you have to get good at speaking and you have
to. It doesn't mean it has to be perfect.
It just means that you just have to really
think about what you're going to talk about.
And I have loads of great ideas,
but I wasn't great at often putting them into
practice, and I was hoping people would
understand my craziness of bringing
everything together. And I had it was
entertaining, like people going away
entertained all the time.
They were like, oh, that was so entertaining.
And that's all I ever got,
which got me by. But I need to get good at
the speaking part, which took a lot of time.
Carol Cox: Well, and Andy, I know that I think you found
me through the Speaking Your Brand podcast.
And I remember we had our consultation call
and you said something to me like that.
You knew you had the performance,
the magic activities down,
and that the audience was being entertained,
and they would tell you how much fun that was
and mind blowing and all that afterwards.
But you said something like,
you really wanted the audience to not just be
entertained, but to actually leave with
something that they could use. Obviously the
thinking about their thinking, but then what
are they going to do with it after they leave
you in that 60 minutes?
Other than just saying, wow,
that was really cool.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, definitely. Like I am like,
I've obviously spoken to you a lot about my
sort of journey, own personal journey and the
things that I've changed about the way I see
the world and my thinking about who I am,
my identity and stuff like that.
And I realized that everything I've gone
through, there's a message there that people
can relate to and connect to.
And that's the reason I got into speaking. It
wasn't just to go in and entertain people if
I wanted to just entertain,
I would just stay the mentalist I.
Why would I ever do that?
But it was the fact that I could be on stage
for 30 minutes, an hour,
whatever it is, and people at the end could
hopefully just. And I'm not. It doesn't need
to be anything life changing, even one small
idea that just makes them.
And that's normally my goal. One small idea
that makes them just look at the world
slightly different. If I can help someone
along this journey, because it's not easy.
Everyone's going through all their own
problems and they're trying to manage
everything of juggling life and their own
creative pursuits and just showing up each
day. If I can just show that it can be done,
or you can overcome stuff by just looking at
the world a little bit differently, I think,
yeah, it's important.
It's important to do. And I think as
speakers, that's our goal is to connect with
people and share our own stories.
Because I think that was the thing working
with you is my initial talk was still so much
in my magic side, I didn't.
I'd only just. I think when I come to you
started sharing something about myself and I
started sharing a story about myself and it
was a bit awkward, like I was still doing it
as an entertainment piece, and it wasn't
really that personal still.
And I was a bit reluctant to give too much of
myself in my talk.
But as that first session that we had where
we felt it, it felt like a therapy session,
really. You go in and you deep dive into like
my talk or my ideas, everything that we've,
I've worked on in my life and we,
it was quite, I left feeling like quite
excited about it. I was like, oh,
actually, there's a lot here.
There's a lot here that I'm just skimming
over. And once we actually.
You made me you asked me some great questions
and guided because I.
It was me basically speaking, wasn't it, for
three hours and you just asked me questions
at the end, we had all these amazing ideas
and yeah, it was, it was a great sort of
process. I really enjoyed that session.
It's not something we do often where we go in
and like deep dive into our own brains and
our own thoughts and why we think that way.
And then connecting all the dots at the end.
Yeah, it was a great process.
Really great.
Carol Cox: Yeah. Well, and I have your board here.
And for those of you watching on video,
you can see this. So this is from that three
hour session.
And like we've been talking about,
Andy had you had amazing audience activities,
you knew what you wanted your talk to be
about because you've been giving it. So you
knew the direction, like the idea for the
talk. And I felt like my role was to just
kind of flesh it out so that the activities
fit in the certain parts of the talk.
But they but like you said,
it was like the main content had to flow
through the talk and the activity activities
had to support it. The magic activities had
to support it versus the other way around.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, they the magic was really holding way
too much weight.
It was holding everything up.
It was also like, I think people at the end
were probably a bit confused with my talk.
They were like, oh, that's insightful.
That was cool. But there was no like actual
arc. There was no story,
there was no structure to it.
It was just like, this is how some ideas that
I have, I'm going to piece them together
where now everything just links together the
language, the words, we bring it all back,
the scripting comes together and it was just
the structure. It was just having that clear
message. It's yeah, like I haven't done it
yet of watching the old video compared to the
new video, but it's it would be great just to
see. I think I'll cringe so hard in my old
video, but it was, yeah,
it's going through and seeing it on the
board. And then the whole process of the
questions afterwards and just making things
clear in my mind, it was just,
yeah, so valuable.
It was exactly what I wanted. I was when I
went through the process, I reached out to a
bunch of different. Because I realized when I
did this. So I haven't mentioned this when I
as a magician, when I went,
I just did it by myself and I didn't really
have as much support. And I delayed it to
about two years into my journey of getting.
It was actually business support I got.
So it was just about like how to grow as a
business. How do I do the ads?
How do I do my website? How do I do the
emails and connecting and stuff?
And as soon as I did it, I just improved
massively. Like my income increased.
I was already a good magician, so I knew I
had the technical side, but was speaking.
I'm like, I know the business, I can sell,
I can, I know I can promote it,
I'm already promoting it,
but the speaking side is what I'm missing.
So when I reached out to you and a few
others, and then we had that conversation and
instantly after just the chat, I was like,
okay, yeah, this feels right.
And I've listened to loads of the podcasts as
well and heard all the amazing women that
come on and deliver the ten minute talks.
And I was so blown away by some of them.
And I was like, this is just incredible. I
don't think I could I haven't had to put
something down to ten minutes yet, but some
of them were just so great. And I was like,
okay, well, this is I don't even know if you
would help someone like me and it would be
great if you could. And,
but after our conversation, I was like, yeah,
this is great. And I think I made the
decision in the call. I think to you,
I was like, yep, yeah.
It was really easy for me to make.
And because I know, well,
look at it already like it's six weeks,
like I the impact is immediate.
It's not something that you wait for a year.
And I think I'm glad I did it sooner rather
than later where I made the mistake a few
years last time, it was probably good because
I did it in 2019, got business advice,
2020 ruined it.
Carol Cox: So that's a good point.
Andy Nunn: But yeah, it was a really great process in
developing that talk and going through that,
that three hour session, our follow up
sessions has been really helpful.
Carol Cox: It's been great to see you implement week by
week and send me the videos to see the
evolution of it. And I think one thing that I
like about the structure that we came up
with. And this is what I try to do.
This is the way my brain works, right?
Thinking about thinking is I like to think
about structure. I like to put things into
threes. And so we came up with your three key
points, which all happened to be start with
s. So it's an alliteration,
not because you're teaching the audience the
alliteration, but to help you and to help me
remember which what those three things are.
And so that way then as you are.
So which is for the full 60 minute version,
because you have the time to go into all the
different audience activities,
plus you have time to go into all three
sections, plus have the act one build the
case, act three, leave the audience with
what's next. And then as you've been working
on a 30 minute version,
which is hard, right?
All the fun activities, but keep the content
is deciding which of those three do we to
keep in. But now it's easy to distinguish
between them versus trying to piece apart a
talk where you don't have those distinctions
and you're not really sure how to either
reduce it or to make it longer.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, I think that's actually one of the
biggest benefits of the way we've.
You've helped me develop this is that I've.
It hasn't been hard for me to have a 45
minute version, 60 minute version,
even an hour, ten version,
or just being able to add pieces and have
that modular sort of process.
And then also it makes it easier for the
slide development, the scripts,
the transitions.
And inside my head, I'm like,
okay, well, I'm not going to be talking
about, I'm just going to be doing safety
today, and I'm not going to be talking about
the shortcuts and that.
But at the end, it just allows the scripting
and I don't need to change anything.
Even though I'm doing 30 minutes,
it doesn't feel like it's getting chopped and
changed like I would previously where there
wasn't as much structure and there wasn't,
it was just harder for me to offer different
time frames and fit into the slots.
Like yesterday, I had a 45 minute time slot
and this is only after six weeks of doing it.
I did it in 45 minutes and nine seconds and
it was like, I've been.
And that's incredible. To get that bang on is
that's what clients want and to be able to do
what you say you're going to do. It shows
that you've delivered. Those time slots are
there for a reason, and they can tell if
you've just done it bang on.
They're like, wow, he knows his stuff. And
even that adds to the credibility of what you
do.
Carol Cox: Yes. And then you get more referrals for
speaking engagements because they appreciate
your not only do you deliver an amazing
experience, but your professionalism because
you're on time, because you keep it to the
time limit, because one thing that event
organizers do not appreciate is that when
speakers are given, say, 30 or 45,
and all of a sudden a 45 becomes a 55 or
becomes a 60, because then they're pushing
back the rest of the agenda.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, yeah. And I know because.
Carol Cox: I've experienced that.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, it's it's not nice for them at all.
They've got a lot of planning, lots of things
going on, especially if there's lunch and
meals. That's a big factor because often the
restaurant or the can't hold back the food,
the chef. And so they need to have the lunch
at a specific time.
And that's a big thing. And it just throws
our whole conference. So it's so important to
be on time. And I think some people,
especially if there's multiple speakers, it
looks bad if one of them is off by quite a
lot. And I've seen people off by 30 minutes,
it's kind of it's kind of crazy.
Carol Cox: Yeah. Well, and I know you have,
you know, you because you speak a lot.
You go to a lot of events and you get to also
see a lot of speakers.
What have you learned?
Either things to do or things not to do from
watching other speakers?
Andy Nunn: I think so.
I think watching other speakers is try your
best not to know the transitions on your
slides as best as you can.
So I think it's quite noticeable sometimes
when you don't know your content that well.
And you have to constantly,
and sometimes you need to look down and know
and stuff like this, but you don't want to be
reading from your notes.
It's fun to have a prompt at the front of my
page. So I have an iPad.
I have a really good tech setup where my iPad
has just got bullet points,
and I know the transition word,
which is really helpful. You just look down
and sometimes you're in the moment and you
maybe ad libbing and you go in and you look,
you've lost where you go,
but you can look down and see the transition
word to the next slide.
I think that's so important just to know
those beats of transitions between the
presentation. If you are going to have
slides, and I think it's important to have
the slides with minimal sort of content on
there so people aren't getting distracted
because I think you want the,
the content on the slides to support what
you're saying, but not distract from it.
And. Yeah, I think as much audience
engagement as you can is an important thing.
People find it hard to have their attention
for a few minutes.
You need to engage them really quickly.
And I think that's especially with
introductions, is getting straight into it.
I think some people go in and they need to do
like a really big formal introduction.
One thing I've noticed from that,
this is my from my performance background,
some people are speakers. It might be
different, but I realized now I just jump
straight into the performance.
Like when I was a performer, I'd. Rather than
going, hi, my name's Andy, I do this, I do
that, blah, blah, blah. And then now it's
like, I even start with a question and I'll
do an introduction just after that.
So I do a moment where they're engaged and
I'm and I grab them with a question or
something like this, and then I do a small
introduction afterwards.
And I think that's a powerful way to go about
it, rather than doing a formal introduction
that doesn't connect them straight away.
And I think that's really helpful.
But yeah, I think as as much as you can.
I have a quite a good ability of remembering
lines. But again, it might just be because
I'm someone who, if I've got to learn
something, I'll just think about it all the
time. And I'll do everything.
So I write it out.
I listen to it voice memos on my.
And then I also record it out.
And then I compare words I'm missing.
And then I do it in speeds.
I sometimes sing it.
I do everything, and then other times I'm
holding the baby, singing the.
Singing my script to her as if it's a
lullaby, which is quite funny,
but just do what you can.
I do it in the car.
I do it while I'm walking the dog.
I put earphones in so I don't look like I'm a
crazy person talking to myself.
Carol Cox: You just pretend you're having a phone call
with someone.
Andy Nunn: But just do it all the time.
And then slowly but surely.
But you also have to do it.
Do with the motions, the standing up and
Actions. They're really important because you
can know the content, but if you don't know
the body language, which is a real big
giveaway in my sort of Ted talk.
I knew the words, but I didn't have body
language or the arm action, so I'm just
waving around for 18 minutes.
A lot of the time, and it's I feel now that
my gestures are a lot more in line with what
I'm saying. And I think that's really
important as well because people connect to
that. And once you get comfortable on stage
and you can stop the bouncing and looking
around and all that sort of stuff,
but also it's just part of it.
People, the audience really want you to do
well.
Carol Cox: Yes they do.
And so, Andy, I want to ask you a few things
I think the listeners will appreciate because
of you, because you have this background in
performing. So the first thing is that I
noticed from watching the videos of these
different speaking engagements that you've
been doing, that some audiences are super
engaged right from the beginning.
They are all into it.
You asked who believes in magic?
And some people will raise their hand, but
they're paying attention that other
audiences. Different mix of people.
And you ask them the question and it's just
they are they're tired,
but whatever. They're just like,
they're not buying it.
Like they don't care about magic,
what have you, but you're really good about
like making a joke about it in the moment or
bringing them in. So what have you learned?
Or just not only as a keynote speaker,
but as a mentalist about group dynamics and
how the same exact content will be received
completely differently depending on the
group. And then what do you what are you
telling yourself in your mind as you're
delivering it and you're not getting the
engagement that you want?
And what are some things that you have found
will help to at least maybe increase their
interest?
Andy Nunn: Yeah, so I have, I always,
I go in with pretty low expectations anyway.
I always have this idea that people,
because I come from like a walk around having
to interrupt conversations,
backgrounds, events.
That's what I had to do. Constantly go up to
groups and just say, hi,
I'm a magician, let me perform to you.
Thing. And then I always go in there and just
imagine that people have a sort of. A brick
wall built up that they don't really want me
to get into their lives.
So they're like, and I come on,
at the end of the day, I realize I'm walking
on stage. I've just been called a mentalist.
I'm. Everyone. There's Australian.
Often the crowds that don't connect to me
often, like I did an event for engineers in
the road into industry and they were building
roads, Victoria roads,
I think. I think the company is they're all
about 50, 60 and all Australian smart guys.
So when I come on and I'm British and I'm
coming in with my suit and telling everyone I
can read minds, I know the thoughts that are
going in their heads are like, who is this
guy? Or what have they brought in?
Are they really putting this on us on a
Monday afternoon, and I know that.
So I go in and I'm just like,
I come from that expectations.
These are the thoughts that I would have. I
was like, what? I thought we were here for an
engineer event. Anyway,
I so I go in with quite low expectations and
I also try and respond in the moment,
at the beginning. So as much as I can,
I don't want to be too much of a performer.
I want to come in at their level.
So if they're really high energy,
I'll come in at high energy.
If they're not like this road industry,
I come on and I just.
Do you believe in magic?
No one responded.
Normally people go, yeah,
and it's quite fun. And I interact with them.
This was like cricket. Everyone was just like
looking at me, you know?
But then I met, I pointed out the fact that
there's zero response.
I goes, no response, no response.
I just laughed at myself.
I think that's important.
I'm just laughing at myself. This is so
ridiculous. I'm on stage calling myself a
mentalist. I'm coming out asking a question.
No one answers and I just laugh.
But then everyone else laughs because it
breaks the tension.
And then I realize I've got a couple of
people and that's all I need.
I just need a couple of people just to be on
and I can support it.
And then I just go into normal sort of
process. And then by the time hopefully,
like I do, my first effect,
the important thing is people realize that
I'm just trying to be myself and just trying
to entertain them.
And I'm not trying to be something special.
I'm there to share something and I hope that
they connect with it. And I'm pretty good at
winning those crowds over,
like by the end of it.
A lot of these guys, the engineers,
at the end of the day, really smart people,
really smart people, I'm going in there with
a bit of trickery and some ideas and trying
to tell them how to think.
And but by the end of it, they're normally on
my side and it's a lot of mindset stuff of
coming in with lower expectations and also
realizing that also they do want a good
speaker. They do, and they want me to do
well. It's not like they're thinking that
they want me to do terrible or anything like
that. So I've just got to deliver and then
try not to take it like I've been in some
events where it's bombed and things haven't
worked out. But I've been okay and I've been
able to improve and I've been able to get
lessons from it. And I know I don't try.
I try not to take any of it personal.
And I think when you go on and the audience
is a bit cold, sometimes you just need to
spend a bit more time warming them up before
you get into the sort of material.
Because if you don't grab them in the first
like couple of minutes, it can be quite hard.
And sometimes, yeah, just asking a question
just I often will point at someone in the
audience and ask them a question and just put
them under pressure. And then I realized And
if I can see it gets a bit awkward.
I just point out the awkward moment.
Oh, you didn't know that I was going to talk
to anyone. And I just say that,
yeah, this is an interactive experience. I'm
sorry. I'm just going to point at people and
make you feel uncomfortable. And I tell them,
I just say the thing that's happening and the
fact they're going to feel weird and everyone
laughs and everyone loves it. You're not
telling jokes, you're just telling everyone
what's happening and that it is a bit of a
strange situation.
And those skills can transform an awkward
room into one that's on your side because
they're like, oh, this guy's different,
or, you know, this isn't,
he's not just going to come in and tell us
how to live our lives, basically.
Carol Cox: Yeah. Well, thank you for that, Andy. That's
really helpful. Do you get nervous?
Like the butterflies in the stomach,
like the heart's beating faster,
that kind of stuff. Or if you had in the
past, what are techniques that you have used?
So I guess maybe my shortcut question is how
do you mentally prepare for your speaking
engagements. Not the script,
but what do you tell yourself and what do you
or what do you do physically,
even to prepare?
Andy Nunn: Yeah. Well, my thought process has changed
over the years. So end of my talk at the
minute, I talk about 4000 Weeks by Oliver
Burkeman, which is about being aware of your
own death, basically.
I used to get nervous before I first went
into being an entertainer.
From being my sales background before every
event, I was terrified I was going to because
I'm a person. So after I do an event,
I have to go by myself and not speak to
anyone for a while.
And I was so nervous because I would go to
the event. Everyone's a couple hundred people
and I've got to go from group to group. And I
used to listen to this audio by Sam Harris,
which is all about being aware of your own
death and that you could die any minute.
And you have this one moment,
this one opportunity to live your life.
And it's quite morbid when I talk about it,
but it was such a big motivator to get me
through that barrier and be like, no,
this might be the last time I ever get to
perform for this group of people. Let's just
enjoy it. Like, why would I be so worried
about it? Because I might never get to
perform again. This is the last time I get to
perform magic. So I'd go in with that
mindset. This is the last time I get to do
it. What would I do if this was my last time?
And that was a big motivator for me.
And then over time, especially with the stage
stuff, weirdly with stage,
I would get less nervous than the walk around
and the stage stuff I the awkwardness of how
I do get nervous. Still,
I still not as much, but I still get nervous.
And I think a lot of it's down to like
knowing your material.
The more you know your material, the less
nervous you get, I find.
And. The sort of process I go through is I've
been done a lot of meditation over the years
and just been aware of my own breath and
I've. Yeah, been I meditate daily pretty much
for about ten, 12 years or something like
that. That's been a big benefit,
a huge benefit. I also listen to brain FM,
which is quite good at relaxing my mind
before I go in, or I listen to some classical
music. And then I have a set routine before I
go on stage. So often I like to be by myself
or walk out next to the stage.
I'll do some walking back and forth,
and I got some tips from someone who worked
on a big stage show in Sydney,
and I remember we did a show together,
and he'd done a tour with some of the best
performers in the world.
And then we did a stage show together, and he
was just sitting in the corner, like drinking
a cup of tea. And I was there with my notes,
like rehearsing the words and trying to know
it all. And like literally a minute before
I'm like looking at words on the script.
And he said to me, he said he got some advice
that an hour for the Performance.
You shouldn't be looking at your script. You
should just be clearing your mind.
Have some tea. Maybe listen to some music.
Just relax.
And I was like, okay, well,
if he's I know the tour he's just been on.
I know the people he's performed for some of
the best performers in the world.
I was like, I'm going to listen to him.
And I did that and it did help.
Like I wasn't going in cram things just
before going on stage.
And I did a Ted talk like Ted couldn't
believe it because I was just sitting there
not rehearsing. Like I said,
the people at Ted Ted were they couldn't
believe that I was just sitting there, like
drinking a cup of tea and drinking some water
and just not rehearsing.
And I was just like, because.
And I found it's been so beneficial of just
relaxing my way into an event.
Um, I should have, I should know the lines,
but before an hour before the event,
I shouldn't have to be like trying to
rehearse. And then I do some vocal warm ups
and I walk and move all my body and my face
and get my energy out and be a bit silly.
I try and be a bit silly because we a part of
my vocal warm ups and my performance work is
like doing a silly voice and all this sort of
stuff, and just like getting my body in this
out of this mindset of being so self
conscious, it seems a bit ridiculous.
People saw me, they would literally think I'm
crazy because I'm like talking in a silly
voice, doing highs and lows,
and I just seem like a crazy person.
But this gets me out the mindset of feeling
like I wanted people judging me because in my
mind I'm like, well, it doesn't matter.
And then so when I go on stage,
I'm a bit more like, people don't know what
I've just been doing backstage.
And that lets me go on stage and be a bit
more of my authentic self,
which is so difficult as a performer,
so hard to step on stage and be your
authentic self. And it's something because
when you're in the audience and you can feel
someone's being fake and you're like,
I like the message, but there's something
here. They're not showing me their true self.
Carol Cox: Yes.
Andy Nunn: I try my performance to be like,
no, I want to be that performer who's showing
their true self. So if they see me outside,
they're going to get that same version of me,
even though it's a little bit different. Like
obviously I've got my performance self, but
it's still the same person and that's what
I'm striving for. And that comes from doing
all these techniques and activities,
which now I'm saying them sound a bit crazy,
but they are.
Carol Cox: No, no, they don't sound crazy.
No. Well, because this is why I love
recommending speakers take an improv class
because it, like you said,
it's, it keeps your focus off of yourself so
that you're not so like self-absorbed or like
self-critical of it because in improv,
you can't be that way.
Or, and because it's just,
that's just the opposite of the whole idea of
improv. And until you go through like I took
an eight week class, this was back in the
beginning of 2020, right before the pandemic.
And it completely and I have been speaking
for years since high school, really for
years. And taking that eight week improv
class instead made me a better speaker in
ways that I could never have thought before.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.
And I've never done an improv class.
I've been recommended it from friends and
stuff, but I think just my years of
performing and getting to the point where I
don't think when I'm on stage, my thinking's
before I go up and I actually step on,
I'm not being critical about myself. It's
quite kind of crazy. It's like my mind is
racing 100 miles an hour.
For some reason, when I go on stage, I can
step into it, if you can call it a flow
state, because I don't really remember too
much of my performances. I just go on and
deliver all this information that's in my
head. But you, I you can't talk to me before
I go on to the stage.
Like my brain is just in a somewhere and I
try and avoid people as much as I can.
And, but yeah, I don't think too much on
stage. I'm not very self-critical when I'm on
there. But that's taken years of practice.
Like I remember, I used to go on.
I used to be so worried when I would ask a
question, I'd be like, oh no, they, they
don't like me. Or those sort of silly things
that were so worried about don't actually
matter. But I don't know.
It's a great. I'm really enjoying it.
And it's, it's an incredible thing to be able
to do, even though it's something I never
imagined, like being a speaker.
That sounds crazy to me.
Like you told me ten years ago that I was
going to be speaking on stage. I would be
like, no, you got the wrong person.
Carol Cox: Well, because you're an introvert like you
mentioned, and I've considered myself an
introvert and probably over half,
well over half of the speakers I've ever
talked to consider themselves introvert.
And I think people are surprised to hear
that. But it doesn't mean just because you're
an introvert doesn't mean that you don't
necessarily want to speak in front of
audiences. It's just how are you recouping
your energy? Or how are you preparing to
deliver a lot of energy?
And then how are you going to how are you
going to refuel that?
And for extroverts, I think they refuel by
being around more people.
After expending energy, whereas for
introverts, I think we have to refuel by
having that time for ourselves.
Andy Nunn: Yeah. And I, I really protect that time.
I take it seriously. Like I'm a big runner
and I run by myself and I meditate and I try
and have downtime as much as I can.
I need to because it really tires me out.
But it's and I think introverts,
we have a lot to share.
Just the way our, the way we think.
We often internalize a lot of this,
but we have a strong message to share with
people. And I think that's why often they do
make the best speakers and best managers and
all that sort of stuff, because they aren't
just going out, just talking about
everything. They're not just they think about
what they're going to say. And because
they've actually thought about it, it often
has a very strong message.
Carol Cox: I think also, I feel like introverts are very
good observers.
We're very good at feeling the audience's
energy. I think this is why you do well,
Andy, because you're feeling okay.
Does the audience need to be lifted up a
little bit, like energy wise?
Are they or is it that is this a part to slow
down and kind of bring them in for a more
intimate moment, so to speak,
with your storytelling and kind of taking
that. I know we talked about when we were
working on your 45 minute version versus the
60 is making sure that you're still doing the
highs and lows with the audience,
right? You're bringing them up and down in a
way that matches the content that you're
sharing.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, yeah, I didn't have any of that sort of
energy structure previously.
And it was just up, down,
up, down, up, down, up,
down. And it didn't build towards the end.
And yeah, it's been really great,
like feeling that energy lift towards the end
of my talk, which has been so important.
Carol Cox: Yeah. Well, Andy, I am so excited for you to
continue to speak in front of these audiences
and for them to not only be wowed by the
different magic activities that you do with
them, which I've seen them so many times now.
And I'm so like, how does he do that?
So it's so fun. But really,
I have taken so much away from your message
about this idea of thinking of being
wonderfully uncomfortable,
that life isn't about being safe like all the
time. I mean, you say it better. You can say
it better than I can because this is your
keynote. But I have is meant a lot to me to
work with you and get to know you. So what is
next for you? Tell us about I know you have a
podcast. You're working on a book.
Obviously you're doing more keynotes. So tell
us what you have coming up.
Andy Nunn: Yeah, so I'm doing a text performance in a
few weeks. I'm currently writing a book with
the help of my wife as well,
which is great. We've just had a baby,
so she's six weeks old.
So there's so much going on.
I've got quite a lot of talks booked in for
the remainder of the year, and I'm just going
to continue. As I mentioned, I'm going to
continue working on this.
And really so it just yeah,
it feels like it's embodied into me.
And I already feeling it now.
Like the one yesterday.
And it just felt incredible.
Like it was such a great way to deliver it.
And the feedback has been so good.
So just working on this,
working on pricing, all that sort of stuff.
I'm obviously quite new to the sort of market
and trying to know where my positioning lies,
even though I'm not a new performer.
The product they're getting isn't new, if you
know what I mean. I've been on stage for
years. Like I have the confidence,
I have the message, and I have to get
changed, that sort of mindset and get around
that. So that's a big part of my journey.
And building my sort of personal brand is
something that I'm going to work on as much
as I can.
Carol Cox: Well, fantastic. Well, for all of you
listening, make sure to check out Andy's
website in the show notes.
I have the link there andrew.com.
Also connect with him on LinkedIn.
I have his LinkedIn profile there.
And also, I do have a link to his TEDx talk
because I think it's a great example of how
you're blending the magic tricks with the
content of the talk in,
in this 15, 18 minute version of what you
know has eventually become now the keynote
that we worked on together. So I'll include a
link to that Ted talk so you all can check
Andy out there.
Andy, thank you so much for working together
and for being a guest on the podcast.
I really enjoyed it.
Andy Nunn: No, I really appreciate it.
It's been such a great sort of experience.
I found it so helpful,
and I was going to give any advice to anyone
who's like thinking about reaching out to you
or thinking about being a speaker or like
trying to, how can they get their message out
and when they're going to do it? I would say
do it before you feel ready because you're
just the truth is, if anything in life,
you're just never going to be ready. It's
part of my talk is you need to just do it and
just find out and you won't regret it.
You'll learn from it. You'll get experience.
And same with speaking.
Just put your hand up to do a Ted talk,
to do whatever you want.
Just go out, share your message. You have
something unique to share and get help.
Reach out to people. There's people out
there. Don't do it alone.
Reach out to Carol.
The experience that I've had has been so
valuable and you just won't regret it.
I'm really grateful that for the last six
weeks and the work that you've put in with
me, and I know I can feel it already in the
feedback and the reviews that I've been
getting without asking has been remarkable.
And it's only six weeks, so it's still early
doors, so I'm really excited for the next
year is going to bring.
Carol Cox: Well, I am too, and you're going to have to
keep me posted on everything that is going
on. Of course, I will continue to follow you
on your podcast and more.
And until next time.
Thanks for listening.