{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":7.53,"endTime":10.23,"body":"Welcome to the IT"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":7.53,"endTime":10.23,"body":"Matters podcast, where we"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":10.23,"endTime":14.82,"body":"explore why IT matters and"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":10.23,"endTime":14.82,"body":"matters pertaining to IT. Here's"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":14.82,"endTime":16.29,"body":"your host, Aaron Bock."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":16.83,"endTime":20.55,"body":"Thank you everyone"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":16.83,"endTime":20.55,"body":"for joining again. My name is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":20.55,"endTime":24.63,"body":"Aaron Bock, as the intro had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":20.55,"endTime":24.63,"body":"said. Welcome to the IT Matters"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":24.63,"endTime":28.68,"body":"Podcast. We are excited that you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":24.63,"endTime":28.68,"body":"are here. It is a beautiful"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":28.68,"endTime":32.37,"body":"spring day here in Charlotte,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":28.68,"endTime":32.37,"body":"North Carolina. I'm joined by my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":32.37,"endTime":35.04,"body":"co-host, Keith Hawkey. Keith,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":32.37,"endTime":35.04,"body":"welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":35.1,"endTime":38.1,"body":"Hey, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":35.1,"endTime":38.1,"body":"having me on again, Aaron. Happy"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":38.1,"endTime":40.74,"body":"to be here. Looking forward to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":38.1,"endTime":40.74,"body":"the conversation."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":41.58,"endTime":44.46,"body":"Yeah. So, what's new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":41.58,"endTime":44.46,"body":"with you, Keith, since the last"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":44.46,"endTime":45.18,"body":"time we were on?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":45.72,"endTime":50.73,"body":"Oh, lots is new"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":45.72,"endTime":50.73,"body":"with me. There's a lot new with"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":50.73,"endTime":54.66,"body":"our industry in particular. From"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":50.73,"endTime":54.66,"body":"what I hear, AI is going to take"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":54.66,"endTime":58.47,"body":"all of our jobs in about two or"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":54.66,"endTime":58.47,"body":"three weeks. That's the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":58.47,"endTime":63.87,"body":"forecast. About two weeks from"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":58.47,"endTime":63.87,"body":"now, we hear the same thing. I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":63.87,"endTime":67.17,"body":"just waiting for that day for me"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":63.87,"endTime":67.17,"body":"to sit back at the house and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":67.17,"endTime":70.11,"body":"have some robot do my job and me"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":67.17,"endTime":70.11,"body":"receive the paycheck."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":70.53,"endTime":73.71,"body":"I agree with you. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":70.53,"endTime":73.71,"body":"don't think it's just us worried"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":73.71,"endTime":77.37,"body":"about our jobs. I think Drake"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":73.71,"endTime":77.37,"body":"and The Weekend are also worried"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":77.37,"endTime":81.36,"body":"since you know there's this new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":77.37,"endTime":81.36,"body":"song out that, I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":81.36,"endTime":84.15,"body":"you've listened to it, but it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":81.36,"endTime":84.15,"body":"legitimately sounds like them."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":84.3,"endTime":88.44,"body":"AI-based music, and I think I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":84.3,"endTime":88.44,"body":"think we're going to see more of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":88.44,"endTime":90.69,"body":"it. It's going to be interesting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":88.44,"endTime":90.69,"body":"to see, but I don't think we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":90.69,"endTime":92.16,"body":"the only ones worried about our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":90.69,"endTime":92.16,"body":"jobs."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":92.43,"endTime":97.41,"body":"AI, ChatGPT, Bard, all of them"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":92.43,"endTime":97.41,"body":"are a crazy trend that we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":97.41,"endTime":99.45,"body":"seeing, and I don't think we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":97.41,"endTime":99.45,"body":"going to see it go away. I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":99.45,"endTime":102.27,"body":"we're going to see a lot of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":99.45,"endTime":102.27,"body":"governance around it. It's an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":102.27,"endTime":105.24,"body":"interesting trend and I know"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":102.27,"endTime":105.24,"body":"that it's coming up in every"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":105.24,"endTime":109.32,"body":"client conversation that we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":105.24,"endTime":109.32,"body":"have. So definitely excited to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":109.35,"endTime":110.07,"body":"dig in more."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":110.1,"endTime":113.49,"body":"I think some of the guests on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":110.1,"endTime":113.49,"body":"our podcast over the next couple"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":113.49,"endTime":117.48,"body":"episodes, we will probably dig"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":113.49,"endTime":117.48,"body":"into it a little bit. Excited to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":117.48,"endTime":120.48,"body":"have you, Keith. Excited to get"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":117.48,"endTime":120.48,"body":"this going. We've got a great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":120.48,"endTime":123.9,"body":"guest on today. I'll kick it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":120.48,"endTime":123.9,"body":"over to you and you can get this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":123.9,"endTime":124.41,"body":"started."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":125.4,"endTime":131.1,"body":"Let's get started."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":125.4,"endTime":131.1,"body":"One more note on the AI part of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":131.1,"endTime":136.44,"body":"this, I could certainly use a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":131.1,"endTime":136.44,"body":"buff to my profile. I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":136.44,"endTime":140.55,"body":"going to get some AI platforms"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":136.44,"endTime":140.55,"body":"to start building some mug shots"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":140.55,"endTime":146.61,"body":"and some crazy arrest image"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":140.55,"endTime":146.61,"body":"imagery about me being taken"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":146.61,"endTime":150.69,"body":"down by a whole SWAT team. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":146.61,"endTime":150.69,"body":"could use some street cred in my"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":150.69,"endTime":155.25,"body":"professional life. I'll get"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":150.69,"endTime":155.25,"body":"ChatGPT or some other product"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":155.73,"endTime":156.51,"body":"working on that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":156.72,"endTime":157.74,"body":"You do that."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":159.75,"endTime":164.25,"body":"I'm excited today."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":159.75,"endTime":164.25,"body":"We have a wonderful guest, John"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":164.25,"endTime":168.9,"body":"Rouda, on the podcast with us."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":164.25,"endTime":168.9,"body":"John, you're an extraordinarily"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":168.93,"endTime":173.13,"body":"interesting person. Not only do"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":168.93,"endTime":173.13,"body":"you manage an IT department in"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":173.13,"endTime":177.39,"body":"charge of ensuring old Western"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":173.13,"endTime":177.39,"body":"fans have their shows to keep"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":177.39,"endTime":181.56,"body":"the nostalgia alive but you have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":177.39,"endTime":181.56,"body":"experience building the minds of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":181.56,"endTime":185.82,"body":"our semi-adult youth. On top of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":181.56,"endTime":185.82,"body":"that, you host one of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":185.82,"endTime":190.47,"body":"coolest geek podcasts on Apple"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":185.82,"endTime":190.47,"body":"Podcast. Aaron and I are big"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":190.47,"endTime":190.98,"body":"fans."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":191.01,"endTime":192.9,"body":"Welcome to the IT Matters"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":191.01,"endTime":192.9,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":194.43,"endTime":195.96,"body":"Thanks for having"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":194.43,"endTime":195.96,"body":"me. I appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":196.08,"endTime":199.26,"body":"Awesome. This is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":196.08,"endTime":199.26,"body":"one of the first times that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":199.26,"endTime":204.03,"body":"we've had a fellow podcaster on"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":199.26,"endTime":204.03,"body":"our podcast. So we're thrilled."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":205.8,"endTime":209.97,"body":"I have a quote here that I want"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":205.8,"endTime":209.97,"body":"to toss out to the group to see"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":209.97,"endTime":214.41,"body":"how it relates. We have a lot to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":209.97,"endTime":214.41,"body":"talk about today, but I thought"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":214.41,"endTime":218.28,"body":"this was interesting. What do"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":214.41,"endTime":218.28,"body":"you think about this? \"Once a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":218.28,"endTime":222.15,"body":"new technology rolls over you,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":218.28,"endTime":222.15,"body":"if you're not a part of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":222.15,"endTime":224.31,"body":"steamroller, you're a part of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":222.15,"endTime":224.31,"body":"the road.\""},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":225.09,"endTime":228.18,"body":"Can you relate to any of that in"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":225.09,"endTime":228.18,"body":"your day-to-day occupation?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":228.99,"endTime":232.74,"body":"Yeah, I can relate"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":228.99,"endTime":232.74,"body":"to that a little bit. But also,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":232.77,"endTime":237.42,"body":"when you think about different"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":232.77,"endTime":237.42,"body":"industries develop at different"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":237.42,"endTime":241.08,"body":"times and adopt technologies at"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":237.42,"endTime":241.08,"body":"different times. And sometimes,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":241.11,"endTime":243.87,"body":"things that are new and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":241.11,"endTime":243.87,"body":"everybody has to jump on them"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":243.87,"endTime":249.24,"body":"right away can sometimes be the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":243.87,"endTime":249.24,"body":"downfall of your industry if you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":249.24,"endTime":249.72,"body":"get on that."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":249.72,"endTime":255.33,"body":"I used to work at INSP. We were"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":249.72,"endTime":255.33,"body":"a cable network ISP and a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":255.9,"endTime":258.6,"body":"security company, telephone"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":255.9,"endTime":258.6,"body":"company back in the day when"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":258.6,"endTime":263.97,"body":"people had landlines. I'm still"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":258.6,"endTime":263.97,"body":"in touch with those folks, even"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":263.97,"endTime":266.94,"body":"though I left that company about"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":263.97,"endTime":266.94,"body":"seven years ago. They're still"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":266.94,"endTime":270.54,"body":"running things on and AS/400"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":266.94,"endTime":270.54,"body":"older technology."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":271.5,"endTime":274.08,"body":"When I was there, they were"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":271.5,"endTime":274.08,"body":"saying, \"If you don't move to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":274.26,"endTime":277.08,"body":"you know microservices, if you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":274.26,"endTime":277.08,"body":"don't move to cloud-based"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":277.11,"endTime":279.36,"body":"systems, you're going to be left"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":277.11,"endTime":279.36,"body":"behind, you're going to be out"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":279.36,"endTime":282.24,"body":"of business in three years."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":279.36,"endTime":282.24,"body":"You're going to be rolled over.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":282.66,"endTime":284.46,"body":"But they're still doing just"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":282.66,"endTime":284.46,"body":"fine."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":284.49,"endTime":288.0,"body":"They had record increases of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":284.49,"endTime":288.0,"body":"internet over the last couple of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":288.0,"endTime":291.3,"body":"years since COVID. Their payment"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":288.0,"endTime":291.3,"body":"is highest it's ever been. They"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":291.3,"endTime":296.25,"body":"just rolled out 2G residential"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":291.3,"endTime":296.25,"body":"internet to the homes. At my"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":296.25,"endTime":299.67,"body":"house, they put me on 2G"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":296.25,"endTime":299.67,"body":"internet from the service. So"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":299.67,"endTime":302.94,"body":"they're doing a really good job"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":299.67,"endTime":302.94,"body":"of moving forward even with old"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":302.94,"endTime":305.7,"body":"technology that they could be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":302.94,"endTime":305.7,"body":"\"steamrolled by.\""},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":305.0,"endTime":310.19,"body":"Thinking about"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":305.0,"endTime":310.19,"body":"technology, AS/400s, with you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":310.19,"endTime":316.76,"body":"teaching Computer Science to our"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":310.19,"endTime":316.76,"body":"collegian youth, and I have had"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":316.76,"endTime":321.2,"body":"firsthand experience speaking to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":316.76,"endTime":321.2,"body":"the directors at some of these"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":321.2,"endTime":325.79,"body":"sites, departments that have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":321.2,"endTime":325.79,"body":"companies approaching them,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":326.45,"endTime":332.27,"body":"requesting, \"Hey, we have old"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":326.45,"endTime":332.27,"body":"legacy back-end technology that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":332.84,"endTime":336.32,"body":"the talent to manage it is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":332.84,"endTime":336.32,"body":"running slim. We would like to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":336.32,"endTime":340.16,"body":"pay for the last two years of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":336.32,"endTime":340.16,"body":"your students' education for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":340.16,"endTime":343.4,"body":"them to learn this old"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":340.16,"endTime":343.4,"body":"technology. And they don't have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":343.4,"endTime":347.09,"body":"to commit to our company. We"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":343.4,"endTime":347.09,"body":"just need more talent in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":347.09,"endTime":349.88,"body":"workforce.\" Is that something"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":347.09,"endTime":349.88,"body":"that you're seeing? Where"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":350.06,"endTime":355.04,"body":"companies are approaching,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":350.06,"endTime":355.04,"body":"asking to expand the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":355.04,"endTime":360.38,"body":"base, expand the talent for an"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":355.04,"endTime":360.38,"body":"old legacy technology that might"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":360.38,"endTime":363.56,"body":"not be around the next 5, 10"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":360.38,"endTime":363.56,"body":"years but it sure seems to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":363.56,"endTime":364.7,"body":"chugging along?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":365.07,"endTime":366.63,"body":"Well, that is a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":365.07,"endTime":366.63,"body":"concern that a lot of companies"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":366.63,"endTime":371.01,"body":"are having. I haven't personally"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":366.63,"endTime":371.01,"body":"seen people coming to whatever"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":371.01,"endTime":374.31,"body":"university and saying that."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":371.01,"endTime":374.31,"body":"Maybe they do it above my level"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":374.49,"endTime":376.77,"body":"to the chair of department or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":374.49,"endTime":376.77,"body":"something like that. But it's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":376.77,"endTime":377.73,"body":"definitely a concern."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":377.76,"endTime":381.87,"body":"I know from talking to some CEO"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":377.76,"endTime":381.87,"body":"friends of mine that they're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":381.87,"endTime":386.64,"body":"still running COBOL software."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":381.87,"endTime":386.64,"body":"One of the guys I was talking"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":386.64,"endTime":389.22,"body":"to, I went to lunch with them"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":386.64,"endTime":389.22,"body":"about a month ago, and he said"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":389.7,"endTime":393.66,"body":"that they have about three more"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":389.7,"endTime":393.66,"body":"COBOL developers on staff. Five"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":393.66,"endTime":397.2,"body":"years ago, they had eight, and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":393.66,"endTime":397.2,"body":"now they're down to three. Those"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":397.2,"endTime":399.48,"body":"three are planning on retiring"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":397.2,"endTime":399.48,"body":"in the next three years and they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":399.48,"endTime":400.29,"body":"can't find anybody."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":400.29,"endTime":404.43,"body":"They've had open wrecks for six,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":400.29,"endTime":404.43,"body":"eight months that nobody's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":404.46,"endTime":407.1,"body":"filling up because there's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":404.46,"endTime":407.1,"body":"nobody that knows COBOL. Then"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":407.88,"endTime":410.55,"body":"the ones that do know COBOL,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":407.88,"endTime":410.55,"body":"quite frankly, are they the ones"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":410.55,"endTime":413.31,"body":"you want to hire? Because"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":410.55,"endTime":413.31,"body":"they're not learning new skills,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":413.31,"endTime":415.56,"body":"they're not trying to advance"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":413.31,"endTime":415.56,"body":"their career. They're just"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":416.07,"endTime":418.41,"body":"comfortable just doing their"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":416.07,"endTime":418.41,"body":"current job."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":420.99,"endTime":424.14,"body":"This is as of a year"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":420.99,"endTime":424.14,"body":"or two ago, but I remember"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":424.14,"endTime":429.81,"body":"listening to a podcast about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":424.14,"endTime":429.81,"body":"bank technology. At the time,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":429.96,"endTime":435.63,"body":"like 98% of banks still had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":429.96,"endTime":435.63,"body":"COBOL in their ATMs. And the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":435.63,"endTime":439.5,"body":"same thing, like what you said,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":435.63,"endTime":439.5,"body":"the number of COBOL developers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":439.5,"endTime":442.41,"body":"and people who know it and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":439.5,"endTime":442.41,"body":"administer it, they don't know"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":442.41,"endTime":442.92,"body":"any of it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":443.1,"endTime":447.78,"body":"So it's this huge need and the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":443.1,"endTime":447.78,"body":"banks are trying to figure out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":447.78,"endTime":452.49,"body":"what to do but no one's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":447.78,"endTime":452.49,"body":"studying. So it's like the law"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":452.49,"endTime":455.31,"body":"of diminishing returns. How do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":452.49,"endTime":455.31,"body":"you fix this? It's forcing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":455.31,"endTime":460.89,"body":"people to either get off or pay,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":455.31,"endTime":460.89,"body":"like Keith said, for programs"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":460.89,"endTime":464.49,"body":"for people to learn what would"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":460.89,"endTime":464.49,"body":"be older technology or old"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":464.49,"endTime":465.09,"body":"languages."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":465.09,"endTime":469.8,"body":"But who's going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":465.09,"endTime":469.8,"body":"teach them? ChatGPT maybe. I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":469.8,"endTime":469.98,"body":"don't know."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":471.9,"endTime":473.61,"body":"Yeah, everything's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":471.9,"endTime":473.61,"body":"going to just come back to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":473.91,"endTime":478.11,"body":"ChatGPT. While you guys are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":473.91,"endTime":478.11,"body":"talking, I'm going to ask"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":478.14,"endTime":480.66,"body":"ChatGPT to teach me COBOL and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":478.14,"endTime":480.66,"body":"see if, by the end of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":480.66,"endTime":483.54,"body":"episode, we've got something to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":480.66,"endTime":483.54,"body":"work with."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":484.26,"endTime":488.16,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":484.26,"endTime":488.16,"body":"Speaking of which, John, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":488.16,"endTime":492.12,"body":"have intimate knowledge about"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":488.16,"endTime":492.12,"body":"what the next generation of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":492.12,"endTime":497.88,"body":"leaders looks like. What are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":492.12,"endTime":497.88,"body":"Computer Science majors learning"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":497.91,"endTime":502.14,"body":"today in your college courses?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":497.91,"endTime":502.14,"body":"And what can we expect from the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":502.14,"endTime":505.29,"body":"next generation of leaders? Are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":502.14,"endTime":505.29,"body":"they different than our"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":505.29,"endTime":506.01,"body":"generation?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":511.11,"endTime":517.02,"body":"A lot has changed in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":511.11,"endTime":517.02,"body":"the past 10 to 15 years when it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":517.02,"endTime":519.48,"body":"comes to Computer Science"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":517.02,"endTime":519.48,"body":"education what you go through."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":520.11,"endTime":526.56,"body":"Back when I was in college, we"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":520.11,"endTime":526.56,"body":"had to learn operating systems."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":526.56,"endTime":530.43,"body":"You had to learn compilers. You"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":526.56,"endTime":530.43,"body":"picked a language or two that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":530.43,"endTime":533.01,"body":"you studied courses on and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":530.43,"endTime":533.01,"body":"that's what you went through."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":533.91,"endTime":536.82,"body":"Now there are different areas"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":533.91,"endTime":536.82,"body":"that you can go to. There are a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":536.82,"endTime":540.0,"body":"lot of different options within"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":536.82,"endTime":540.0,"body":"a Computer Science degree. Maybe"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":540.0,"endTime":541.47,"body":"you want to get into"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":540.0,"endTime":541.47,"body":"cybersecurity and you want to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":541.47,"endTime":544.26,"body":"focus on that. Things are so"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":541.47,"endTime":544.26,"body":"varied that you have to pick a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":544.26,"endTime":546.27,"body":"concentration and focus on it,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":544.26,"endTime":546.27,"body":"whether it's a full-stack"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":546.3,"endTime":549.03,"body":"development type concentration,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":546.3,"endTime":549.03,"body":"or you're going into"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":549.03,"endTime":551.94,"body":"cybersecurity concentration, or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":549.03,"endTime":551.94,"body":"maybe IT operations and cloud"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":551.94,"endTime":552.54,"body":"technologies."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":552.57,"endTime":556.29,"body":"They're very different and the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":552.57,"endTime":556.29,"body":"skill sets are so unique among"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":556.38,"endTime":558.84,"body":"individuals. If you graduate"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":556.38,"endTime":558.84,"body":"with just a generic Computer"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":558.84,"endTime":562.8,"body":"Science degree, you might not be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":558.84,"endTime":562.8,"body":"able to even perform your job"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":562.8,"endTime":567.03,"body":"because what are you going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":562.8,"endTime":567.03,"body":"do? Maybe Helpdesk? I don't"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":567.03,"endTime":567.75,"body":"know, maybe not."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":569.43,"endTime":571.32,"body":"Being able to specialize in a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":569.43,"endTime":571.32,"body":"certain area, whether it be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":571.32,"endTime":575.07,"body":"networking, cybersecurity, or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":571.32,"endTime":575.07,"body":"full-stack development, you're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":575.07,"endTime":577.95,"body":"going to pick a skill and go"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":575.07,"endTime":577.95,"body":"through that path. The cool"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":577.95,"endTime":580.77,"body":"thing that they're doing now"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":577.95,"endTime":580.77,"body":"with a lot of Computer Science"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":581.73,"endTime":586.56,"body":"departments is they're doing"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":581.73,"endTime":586.56,"body":"real-world applications and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.88,"body":"real-world applying of their"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":586.56,"endTime":590.88,"body":"skills, and they're able to do"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":590.88,"endTime":591.81,"body":"that much quicker."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":591.0,"endTime":596.16,"body":"For example, I have a friend of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":591.0,"endTime":596.16,"body":"mine who is going to a college"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":596.16,"endTime":599.7,"body":"for cybersecurity. I don't teach"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":596.16,"endTime":599.7,"body":"cybersecurity, so I can't really"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":599.7,"endTime":602.31,"body":"speak a whole lot about that."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":599.7,"endTime":602.31,"body":"But one of the cool things that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":602.31,"endTime":604.83,"body":"they're doing is they're going"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":602.31,"endTime":604.83,"body":"and doing pen tests for"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":604.83,"endTime":609.0,"body":"nonprofits that can't afford"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":604.83,"endTime":609.0,"body":"them, for free. As a sophomore"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":609.03,"endTime":611.4,"body":"in college, you're able to go"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":609.03,"endTime":611.4,"body":"out there and do pen tests for"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":611.4,"endTime":613.2,"body":"these nonprofits and show them"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":611.4,"endTime":613.2,"body":"vulnerabilities."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":613.83,"endTime":615.9,"body":"They're offering that from a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":613.83,"endTime":615.9,"body":"college standpoint, which is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":615.9,"endTime":617.82,"body":"really cool because they're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":615.9,"endTime":617.82,"body":"getting real-world experience"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":617.82,"endTime":620.61,"body":"that they can put on the resumes"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":617.82,"endTime":620.61,"body":"for being a pen tester. And"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":620.61,"endTime":623.7,"body":"there are nonprofits getting a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":620.61,"endTime":623.7,"body":"lot of information that can"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":623.7,"endTime":625.29,"body":"hopefully plug some holes that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":623.7,"endTime":625.29,"body":"they have."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":625.35,"endTime":629.88,"body":"Is that applicable"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":625.35,"endTime":629.88,"body":"to other segments of Computer"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":629.88,"endTime":633.69,"body":"Science? Are full-stack"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":629.88,"endTime":633.69,"body":"developers getting exposure like"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":633.69,"endTime":639.9,"body":"this or the other disciplines?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":633.69,"endTime":639.9,"body":"Do they have opportunities to do"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":639.9,"endTime":640.47,"body":"the same thing?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":641.05,"endTime":645.37,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":641.05,"endTime":645.37,"body":"Even at Winthrop, our students,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":645.4,"endTime":647.98,"body":"when they become juniors and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":645.4,"endTime":647.98,"body":"seniors, they'll pick different"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":648.85,"endTime":652.45,"body":"nonprofits that partner with the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":648.85,"endTime":652.45,"body":"University, and they will build"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":652.45,"endTime":654.94,"body":"applications or websites for"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":652.45,"endTime":654.94,"body":"them that do certain things."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":655.74,"endTime":661.44,"body":"I remember we went through one"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":655.74,"endTime":661.44,"body":"project for a homeless shelter"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":661.44,"endTime":666.12,"body":"where they use churches. There"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":661.44,"endTime":666.12,"body":"are 12 churches in the area that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":666.15,"endTime":669.63,"body":"volunteer to partner with. They"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":666.15,"endTime":669.63,"body":"put beds for these people and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":669.63,"endTime":672.51,"body":"they're moving them around from"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":669.63,"endTime":672.51,"body":"time to time. They have a lot of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":672.51,"endTime":678.84,"body":"criteria for the people that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":672.51,"endTime":678.84,"body":"stay. They can't be on drugs"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":678.84,"endTime":680.64,"body":"while they're there. They have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":678.84,"endTime":680.64,"body":"to be clean. They have to be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":680.64,"endTime":681.54,"body":"looking for jobs."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":682.44,"endTime":685.65,"body":"The church has counselors that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":682.44,"endTime":685.65,"body":"come in and coach them about"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":685.68,"endTime":689.22,"body":"opportunities and help them with"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":685.68,"endTime":689.22,"body":"their resumes. The church gives"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":689.22,"endTime":692.85,"body":"them new clothes so that they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":689.22,"endTime":692.85,"body":"are presentable for interviewing"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":692.85,"endTime":695.07,"body":"and coaching them on how to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":692.85,"endTime":695.07,"body":"interview."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":695.46,"endTime":698.85,"body":"As a full-stack development, we"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":695.46,"endTime":698.85,"body":"built the database that houses"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":699.3,"endTime":701.7,"body":"that information for that person"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":699.3,"endTime":701.7,"body":"so they can track their future"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":701.7,"endTime":705.0,"body":"to see how successful the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":701.7,"endTime":705.0,"body":"program was. Did they get a job?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":705.0,"endTime":707.4,"body":"How long were they able to keep"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":705.0,"endTime":707.4,"body":"their work? Do they have a house"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":707.4,"endTime":711.3,"body":"now? Did they move into an"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":707.4,"endTime":711.3,"body":"apartment? Track that person"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":711.3,"endTime":713.22,"body":"over a period of time just for"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":711.3,"endTime":713.22,"body":"metrics."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":713.22,"endTime":714.87,"body":"We were able to build the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":713.22,"endTime":714.87,"body":"website. We were able to build a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":714.87,"endTime":718.26,"body":"database behind it and do the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":714.87,"endTime":718.26,"body":"data analytics and reporting to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":718.26,"endTime":718.98,"body":"show that information."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":718.98,"endTime":723.12,"body":"John, you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":718.98,"endTime":723.12,"body":"as a junior at Winthrop, getting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":723.12,"endTime":726.57,"body":"to do real-life pen tests. What"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":723.12,"endTime":726.57,"body":"do you think that does for a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":726.57,"endTime":732.66,"body":"student to be able to figure out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":726.57,"endTime":732.66,"body":"how to apply it in real life? I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":732.66,"endTime":735.42,"body":"think a lot of people have a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":732.66,"endTime":735.42,"body":"stereotype of college education"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":735.57,"endTime":738.6,"body":"that it's all theoretical, no"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":735.57,"endTime":738.6,"body":"real-life application. How does"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":738.6,"endTime":740.19,"body":"that change a student's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":738.6,"endTime":740.19,"body":"trajectory?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":740.0,"endTime":743.03,"body":"I think it's very"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":740.0,"endTime":743.03,"body":"important. A lot of colleges are"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":743.03,"endTime":746.0,"body":"very theoretical, where you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":743.03,"endTime":746.0,"body":"don't get the opportunity to do"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":746.06,"endTime":749.18,"body":"real-world experience. Right"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":746.06,"endTime":749.18,"body":"now, I'm the vice president of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":749.18,"endTime":752.24,"body":"technology. If I'm hiring"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":749.18,"endTime":752.24,"body":"someone out of college, I don't"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":752.24,"endTime":754.19,"body":"want to see that they just took"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":752.24,"endTime":754.19,"body":"classes. I want to see that they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":754.19,"endTime":757.22,"body":"were involved and that they have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":754.19,"endTime":757.22,"body":"a portfolio of some sort, or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":757.22,"endTime":759.53,"body":"some kind of history of work,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":757.22,"endTime":759.53,"body":"whether it's an internship,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":759.53,"endTime":762.26,"body":"whether it's being able to do"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":759.53,"endTime":762.26,"body":"these projects."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":762.63,"endTime":766.5,"body":"If their university doesn't give"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":762.63,"endTime":766.5,"body":"them the skills or the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":766.5,"endTime":769.62,"body":"experience to do something like"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":766.5,"endTime":769.62,"body":"this, then I might not be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":769.62,"endTime":772.8,"body":"interested in hiring them. I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":769.62,"endTime":772.8,"body":"think that's a huge disservice"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":772.8,"endTime":775.41,"body":"to the student, not allowing"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":772.8,"endTime":775.41,"body":"them to have some kind of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":775.44,"endTime":778.53,"body":"opportunity, whether it be an"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":775.44,"endTime":778.53,"body":"internship or doing something"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":778.53,"endTime":782.85,"body":"like this where they can go and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":778.53,"endTime":782.85,"body":"get experience for a nonprofit."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":785.82,"endTime":788.31,"body":"We deal with a lot"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":785.82,"endTime":788.31,"body":"of the folks in the accounting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":788.31,"endTime":792.0,"body":"industry across the southeast"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":788.31,"endTime":792.0,"body":"and mid-Atlantic. I know they're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":792.0,"endTime":794.67,"body":"struggling with this. It's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":792.0,"endTime":794.67,"body":"really an interesting challenge"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":794.67,"endTime":799.92,"body":"they've got. Here comes AI"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":794.67,"endTime":799.92,"body":"again, ChatGPT, doing some of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":799.92,"endTime":804.45,"body":"the work. But then accounting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":799.92,"endTime":804.45,"body":"students in college who are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":804.45,"endTime":807.75,"body":"deciding majors are saying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":804.45,"endTime":807.75,"body":"accounting is too dry, boring,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":807.75,"endTime":811.5,"body":"not real-life applicable. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":807.75,"endTime":811.5,"body":"you've got that mix of that and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":811.5,"endTime":813.84,"body":"it's being mixed with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":811.5,"endTime":813.84,"body":"technology."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":814.92,"endTime":818.61,"body":"I was talking to someone who"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":814.92,"endTime":818.61,"body":"leads a practice across the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":818.61,"endTime":820.89,"body":"state of North Carolina, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":818.61,"endTime":820.89,"body":"they said, \"We're looking for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":820.89,"endTime":823.41,"body":"students who can come in and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":820.89,"endTime":823.41,"body":"have an innovative mind with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":823.41,"endTime":826.68,"body":"accounting and are willing to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":823.41,"endTime":826.68,"body":"blend technology and accounting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":826.68,"endTime":827.73,"body":"and know how to use it.\""},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":827.76,"endTime":832.5,"body":"So while maybe not doing a pen"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":827.76,"endTime":832.5,"body":"test and cybersecurity, how do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":832.5,"endTime":837.12,"body":"they use some of the tools and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":832.5,"endTime":837.12,"body":"technology out there in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":837.12,"endTime":841.23,"body":"accounting industry to make it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":837.12,"endTime":841.23,"body":"cool or whatever? It's a real"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":841.23,"endTime":844.08,"body":"challenge that they're facing. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":841.23,"endTime":844.08,"body":"think the more real-life"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":844.08,"endTime":847.56,"body":"application you can get as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":844.08,"endTime":847.56,"body":"student, the more likely you are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":847.56,"endTime":850.92,"body":"to stand out from your peers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":847.56,"endTime":850.92,"body":"when it goes to trying to find a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":850.92,"endTime":851.97,"body":"job or an internship."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":852.36,"endTime":854.28,"body":"I think you're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":852.36,"endTime":854.28,"body":"absolutely right. And that leads"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":854.28,"endTime":856.35,"body":"me to one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":854.28,"endTime":856.35,"body":"problems with universities"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":856.35,"endTime":860.49,"body":"today, and why the value of an"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":856.35,"endTime":860.49,"body":"education is going down in my"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":860.49,"endTime":862.5,"body":"opinion, and the return on"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":860.49,"endTime":862.5,"body":"investment is really going down."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":862.53,"endTime":865.47,"body":"The price is going up, but there"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":862.53,"endTime":865.47,"body":"are a lot of professors out"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":865.47,"endTime":868.38,"body":"there that get tenured and they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":865.47,"endTime":868.38,"body":"just hang around for a long time"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":868.38,"endTime":870.09,"body":"doing the same thing that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":868.38,"endTime":870.09,"body":"they've always done and not"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":870.09,"endTime":872.49,"body":"innovating and not using the new"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":870.09,"endTime":872.49,"body":"technologies."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":873.09,"endTime":876.18,"body":"I remember when I was in college"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":873.09,"endTime":876.18,"body":"learning Computer Science,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":876.18,"endTime":879.66,"body":"learning how to code, I had a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":876.18,"endTime":879.66,"body":"professor that was tenured. He"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":879.66,"endTime":882.84,"body":"retired shortly after I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":879.66,"endTime":882.84,"body":"graduated, thankfully, but we"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":882.84,"endTime":886.17,"body":"had to handwrite all of our code"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":882.84,"endTime":886.17,"body":"in little blue books. Like, we"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":886.17,"endTime":889.14,"body":"have computer labs. We have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":886.17,"endTime":889.14,"body":"laptops. We have technology, but"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":889.14,"endTime":892.29,"body":"we have to handwrite code? What"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":889.14,"endTime":892.29,"body":"the heck? Where's this"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":892.29,"endTime":895.35,"body":"applicable? All it's doing is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":892.29,"endTime":895.35,"body":"discouraging students from"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":895.35,"endTime":896.07,"body":"actually learning."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":896.52,"endTime":901.02,"body":"Well, Aaron, John,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":896.52,"endTime":901.02,"body":"I'm pleased to say that we have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":901.02,"endTime":907.2,"body":"arrived to the day where IT is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":901.02,"endTime":907.2,"body":"sexy. We're here. We get to see"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":907.2,"endTime":912.21,"body":"it in our lifetimes. I'm glad to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":907.2,"endTime":912.21,"body":"be part of that generation to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":912.21,"endTime":916.53,"body":"bring IT into the cool kids"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":912.21,"endTime":916.53,"body":"clique."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":917.22,"endTime":920.67,"body":"You never know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":917.22,"endTime":920.67,"body":"though. What if you have to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":920.67,"endTime":925.11,"body":"start IT on Mars, John? That"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":920.67,"endTime":925.11,"body":"book might come in handy that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":925.11,"endTime":926.55,"body":"you wrote down all that code in."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":928.02,"endTime":929.4,"body":"But we had to get to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":928.02,"endTime":929.4,"body":"Mars somehow, right? We need"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":929.55,"endTime":930.36,"body":"those computers, though."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":930.39,"endTime":933.27,"body":"I guess you'd need"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":930.39,"endTime":933.27,"body":"computers to get to Mars."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":933.36,"endTime":940.47,"body":"Well, we'll leave"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":933.36,"endTime":940.47,"body":"that one up to Elon Musk to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":940.47,"endTime":949.44,"body":"answer. John, you manage an IT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":940.47,"endTime":949.44,"body":"department for a TV broadcast"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":949.92,"endTime":954.96,"body":"studio or station. What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":949.92,"endTime":954.96,"body":"technology is changing your"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":954.96,"endTime":959.73,"body":"industry in your business"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":954.96,"endTime":959.73,"body":"professional life? What's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":959.73,"endTime":964.38,"body":"changing? That segment of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":959.73,"endTime":964.38,"body":"business. Television"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":964.38,"endTime":967.8,"body":"broadcasting has been around for"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":964.38,"endTime":967.8,"body":"such a long time. I imagine that"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":967.8,"endTime":970.47,"body":"you guys probably have some"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":967.8,"endTime":970.47,"body":"legacy technology that is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":970.47,"endTime":976.14,"body":"difficult to replace. What's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":970.47,"endTime":976.14,"body":"exciting? What do you see? What"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":976.14,"endTime":977.43,"body":"are people doing?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":978.48,"endTime":980.91,"body":"There's a lot that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":978.48,"endTime":980.91,"body":"is always changing when it comes"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":980.91,"endTime":984.39,"body":"to industries like this. But"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":980.91,"endTime":984.39,"body":"security is really important"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":984.42,"endTime":990.63,"body":"right now. When it comes to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":984.42,"endTime":990.63,"body":"having live broadcasts or taped"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":990.63,"endTime":992.82,"body":"broadcasts, either way, you want"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":990.63,"endTime":992.82,"body":"to make sure that you're always"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":992.82,"endTime":994.98,"body":"on the air. That's where your"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":992.82,"endTime":994.98,"body":"revenue comes from. It's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":994.98,"endTime":999.96,"body":"important to not lose watchers"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":994.98,"endTime":999.96,"body":"and your audience."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1001.07,"endTime":1003.77,"body":"If you're off the air and the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1001.07,"endTime":1003.77,"body":"audience isn't there, then"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1004.19,"endTime":1006.23,"body":"they're not going to come back."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1004.19,"endTime":1006.23,"body":"They're going to find something"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1006.23,"endTime":1008.96,"body":"else to watch that's going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1006.23,"endTime":1008.96,"body":"entertain them and keep them"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1008.99,"endTime":1010.7,"body":"occupied. They're not going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1008.99,"endTime":1010.7,"body":"come back to your channel. You"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1010.7,"endTime":1013.52,"body":"just lost that audience member,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1010.7,"endTime":1013.52,"body":"which is going to significantly"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1013.52,"endTime":1016.7,"body":"impact your revenue. So you stay"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1013.52,"endTime":1016.7,"body":"on the air and keep that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1016.7,"endTime":1018.17,"body":"completely secure. That's really"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1016.7,"endTime":1018.17,"body":"important."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1018.17,"endTime":1023.72,"body":"But also the delivery mechanism"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1018.17,"endTime":1023.72,"body":"is important. We've seen over"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1023.72,"endTime":1026.54,"body":"the last decade, people cutting"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1023.72,"endTime":1026.54,"body":"the cord, going to streaming"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1026.54,"endTime":1031.13,"body":"services. Although our channel"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1026.54,"endTime":1031.13,"body":"and our content is on streaming"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1031.13,"endTime":1034.46,"body":"services as well, it's one of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1031.13,"endTime":1034.46,"body":"those things where there are new"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1034.49,"endTime":1037.43,"body":"avenues that come on. There's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1034.49,"endTime":1037.43,"body":"something in our industry called"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1037.43,"endTime":1040.04,"body":"a fast channel, which is a free"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1037.43,"endTime":1040.04,"body":"ad-supported TV."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1040.25,"endTime":1045.74,"body":"If you have a Samsung TV and you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1040.25,"endTime":1045.74,"body":"plug it and connect it to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1045.74,"endTime":1048.05,"body":"internet, there are some news"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1045.74,"endTime":1048.05,"body":"channels, there's stuff on"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1048.05,"endTime":1051.47,"body":"there. Those are fast channels."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1048.05,"endTime":1051.47,"body":"They're free, you can just watch"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1051.47,"endTime":1054.74,"body":"them. But that content is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1051.47,"endTime":1054.74,"body":"delivered in a different way"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1054.74,"endTime":1057.56,"body":"than broadcast. You're not using"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1054.74,"endTime":1057.56,"body":"a tower. You're not using"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1057.56,"endTime":1059.51,"body":"satellite. You're not using"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1057.56,"endTime":1059.51,"body":"anything like that, you're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1059.51,"endTime":1060.56,"body":"streaming that to the internet."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1060.59,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"Now you have to focus on, how"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1060.59,"endTime":1064.94,"body":"can I deliver this content at"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1064.94,"endTime":1068.51,"body":"scale? CDNs become extremely"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1064.94,"endTime":1068.51,"body":"important for content delivery,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1068.78,"endTime":1072.47,"body":"and locations of where things"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1068.78,"endTime":1072.47,"body":"are coming from and delay. Cloud"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1072.47,"endTime":1075.29,"body":"services, as far as storing are"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1072.47,"endTime":1075.29,"body":"really important, and keeping"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1075.29,"endTime":1078.59,"body":"that data refreshed, and up"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1075.29,"endTime":1078.59,"body":"there in a redundant path."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1079.94,"endTime":1086.0,"body":"That's exciting."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1079.94,"endTime":1086.0,"body":"It sounds like since the model"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1086.0,"endTime":1091.31,"body":"is changing, to scale up and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1086.0,"endTime":1091.31,"body":"adopt new streaming technology,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1091.34,"endTime":1093.32,"body":"are those significant"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1091.34,"endTime":1093.32,"body":"investments that your"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1093.32,"endTime":1096.89,"body":"organization has to make? Is it"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1093.32,"endTime":1096.89,"body":"cheaper to roll that out? Or is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1096.89,"endTime":1100.52,"body":"it more expensive? How is it"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1096.89,"endTime":1100.52,"body":"financially?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1102.23,"endTime":1104.42,"body":"From a financial"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1102.23,"endTime":1104.42,"body":"aspect, it's a little different"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1104.42,"endTime":1109.28,"body":"because if you're building a new"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1104.42,"endTime":1109.28,"body":"from-scratch environment to do a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1109.28,"endTime":1112.46,"body":"broadcast, you're going about"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1109.28,"endTime":1112.46,"body":"buying satellites or towers, if"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1112.46,"endTime":1114.89,"body":"you're doing local news"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1112.46,"endTime":1114.89,"body":"broadcasts or something like"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1114.89,"endTime":1117.62,"body":"that. Either way, we're going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1114.89,"endTime":1117.62,"body":"have a significant seven-figure"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1117.62,"endTime":1119.12,"body":"investment to get that on air."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1119.45,"endTime":1122.72,"body":"I can start a streaming channel"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1119.45,"endTime":1122.72,"body":"with a lot less because now I'm"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1122.72,"endTime":1124.97,"body":"doing more operational expenses."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1122.72,"endTime":1124.97,"body":"I'm going to have higher"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1124.97,"endTime":1127.85,"body":"bandwidth, I'm going to have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1124.97,"endTime":1127.85,"body":"cloud storage, I'm going to have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1127.85,"endTime":1130.85,"body":"monthly fees that are much"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1127.85,"endTime":1130.85,"body":"higher but less CapEx investment"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1130.85,"endTime":1133.85,"body":"to get started. So it's a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1130.85,"endTime":1133.85,"body":"different way of looking at it."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1134.57,"endTime":1138.14,"body":"Whether the cost is higher or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1134.57,"endTime":1138.14,"body":"lower, it's to be seen. The most"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1138.14,"endTime":1140.54,"body":"expensive part though day-to-day"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1138.14,"endTime":1140.54,"body":"would probably be the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1140.54,"endTime":1143.27,"body":"acquisition of the content or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1140.54,"endTime":1143.27,"body":"creating the content. If you're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1143.27,"endTime":1146.33,"body":"going to be making a movie or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1143.27,"endTime":1146.33,"body":"making your own series, that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1146.33,"endTime":1148.61,"body":"gets very expensive because you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1146.33,"endTime":1148.61,"body":"have actors, you have cameras,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1148.61,"endTime":1150.83,"body":"you have editors, you have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1148.61,"endTime":1150.83,"body":"producers, you have all that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1150.83,"endTime":1153.23,"body":"stuff that goes into it. Or if"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1150.83,"endTime":1153.23,"body":"you're acquiring content from"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1153.23,"endTime":1155.18,"body":"somewhere else, and you're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1153.23,"endTime":1155.18,"body":"paying that distribution fee and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1155.18,"endTime":1156.17,"body":"licenses and stuff."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1156.2,"endTime":1162.41,"body":"John, what do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1156.2,"endTime":1162.41,"body":"think of Netflix and Hulu? Five"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1162.41,"endTime":1164.66,"body":"years ago, we were saying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1162.41,"endTime":1164.66,"body":"everyone is cutting the cord,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1164.66,"endTime":1167.66,"body":"but I actually think it's kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1164.66,"endTime":1167.66,"body":"of coming back where people are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1167.66,"endTime":1170.45,"body":"starting to go back to the cable"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1167.66,"endTime":1170.45,"body":"companies because there are too"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1170.45,"endTime":1174.56,"body":"many streaming services. What do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1170.45,"endTime":1174.56,"body":"you think about that trend? Then"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1175.07,"endTime":1178.16,"body":"for you guys, how do you see"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1175.07,"endTime":1178.16,"body":"Netflix/Hulu? Are they"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1178.16,"endTime":1181.61,"body":"competitors? Are they potential"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1178.16,"endTime":1181.61,"body":"partners? Are they good? Are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1181.61,"endTime":1183.71,"body":"they bad? How do you guys view"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1181.61,"endTime":1183.71,"body":"them?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1184.34,"endTime":1188.21,"body":"It's a little bit of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1184.34,"endTime":1188.21,"body":"both I would say. At our"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1188.21,"endTime":1191.51,"body":"company, we do have a division"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1188.21,"endTime":1191.51,"body":"that makes films and makes"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1191.51,"endTime":1194.21,"body":"original series, and some of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1191.51,"endTime":1194.21,"body":"those are licensed out to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1194.24,"endTime":1197.93,"body":"Netflix and Amazon and Hulu and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1194.24,"endTime":1197.93,"body":"those other services, which is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1197.93,"endTime":1200.39,"body":"great. It's a great partnership"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1197.93,"endTime":1200.39,"body":"to have with them."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1200.6,"endTime":1205.94,"body":"I do agree that it is a cycle."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1200.6,"endTime":1205.94,"body":"We've seen the same thing with"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1205.97,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"IT. If we go back to the old"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1205.97,"endTime":1208.49,"body":"school of technology, everything"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1211.4,"body":"was on a mainframe and you had"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1208.49,"endTime":1211.4,"body":"clients that would connect to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1211.4,"endTime":1213.44,"body":"the mainframe to pull their"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1211.4,"endTime":1213.44,"body":"information. They were dumb"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1213.77,"endTime":1216.56,"body":"clients, as we called it and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1213.77,"endTime":1216.56,"body":"back then. Then it moved to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1216.56,"endTime":1218.81,"body":"distributing and computing where"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1216.56,"endTime":1218.81,"body":"everybody had a desktop and all"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1218.81,"endTime":1221.75,"body":"their applications were on that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1218.81,"endTime":1221.75,"body":"desktop. Then we moved back into"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1221.75,"endTime":1223.79,"body":"a cloud environment where"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1221.75,"endTime":1223.79,"body":"everything is SaaS model now."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1223.82,"endTime":1226.49,"body":"Well, that's almost the same"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1223.82,"endTime":1226.49,"body":"thing as what we had originally"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1226.49,"endTime":1229.52,"body":"with dumb clients. Everything is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1226.49,"endTime":1229.52,"body":"SaaS model, using your browser"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1230.3,"endTime":1233.57,"body":"or your phone and connecting"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1230.3,"endTime":1233.57,"body":"that way. We're seeing the same"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1233.57,"endTime":1238.67,"body":"thing with TV too. I can think"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1233.57,"endTime":1238.67,"body":"back five or six years ago when"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1239.6,"endTime":1243.77,"body":"I cut the cord and got off cable"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1239.6,"endTime":1243.77,"body":"and went to a streaming service."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1244.1,"endTime":1246.44,"body":"I had two streaming services,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1244.1,"endTime":1246.44,"body":"and then Disney Plus came out,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1246.44,"endTime":1248.3,"body":"\"Oh, I have to get that because"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1246.44,"endTime":1248.3,"body":"I have kids.\" And now I have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1248.3,"endTime":1248.78,"body":"three."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1249.77,"endTime":1253.19,"body":"Well, that comes with Hulu so"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1249.77,"endTime":1253.19,"body":"now I have four. Oh, there's a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1253.19,"endTime":1255.2,"body":"show on Paramount that I really"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1253.19,"endTime":1255.2,"body":"want to watch. Now I have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1255.2,"endTime":1258.17,"body":"Paramount Plus, now I have five."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1255.2,"endTime":1258.17,"body":"Oh, HBO Max has this. Now I have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1258.17,"endTime":1260.24,"body":"six. The next thing you know,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1258.17,"endTime":1260.24,"body":"I'm paying more for my streaming"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1260.24,"endTime":1263.27,"body":"services than cable. I have to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1260.24,"endTime":1263.27,"body":"rethink the whole thing from a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1263.27,"endTime":1266.03,"body":"financial aspect. Does it make"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1263.27,"endTime":1266.03,"body":"sense or can I just go back to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1266.03,"endTime":1268.1,"body":"cable and add HBO and have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1266.03,"endTime":1268.1,"body":"everything that I want?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1268.16,"endTime":1270.86,"body":"I hope that the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1268.16,"endTime":1270.86,"body":"trend or I hope the cycle is not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1270.86,"endTime":1273.47,"body":"too deep though because like I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1270.86,"endTime":1273.47,"body":"really don't want to go back to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1273.47,"endTime":1278.87,"body":"TVs with the antenna ears and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1273.47,"endTime":1278.87,"body":"the rabbit ears. But you never"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1278.87,"endTime":1281.54,"body":"say never. I guess we could end"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1278.87,"endTime":1281.54,"body":"up back there at some point. But"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1281.54,"endTime":1282.62,"body":"I do agree with you."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1283.97,"endTime":1289.22,"body":"One thing that's interesting to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1283.97,"endTime":1289.22,"body":"me is that Netflix or Hulu, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1289.22,"endTime":1294.53,"body":"name the service, they were this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1289.22,"endTime":1294.53,"body":"aggregator of content that was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1294.53,"endTime":1297.02,"body":"streaming, but now they're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1294.53,"endTime":1297.02,"body":"creating all the content. So to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1297.02,"endTime":1300.44,"body":"your point, owning the content,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1297.02,"endTime":1300.44,"body":"I feel like they know, is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1300.44,"endTime":1304.61,"body":"important for them too. It's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1300.44,"endTime":1304.61,"body":"interesting to see them trying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1304.61,"endTime":1307.22,"body":"to do that, but also the trend"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1304.61,"endTime":1307.22,"body":"of people going back to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1307.22,"endTime":1310.1,"body":"cable networks. How is that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1307.22,"endTime":1310.1,"body":"going to work out over the next"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1310.1,"endTime":1310.85,"body":"five years?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1311.6,"endTime":1313.04,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1311.6,"endTime":1313.04,"body":"that we're seeing now when it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1313.04,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"comes to content is there's good"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1313.04,"endTime":1316.46,"body":"content out there that actually"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1321.38,"body":"ends up dying because if I don't"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1316.46,"endTime":1321.38,"body":"have my own streaming service,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1321.38,"endTime":1325.25,"body":"but I make films or make movies"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1321.38,"endTime":1325.25,"body":"and things like that, and I put"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1325.25,"endTime":1329.48,"body":"this content out there, when"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1325.25,"endTime":1329.48,"body":"that license expires, it goes"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1329.48,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"away and you can't get it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1329.48,"endTime":1332.54,"body":"anymore. It's just gone because"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1332.54,"endTime":1336.35,"body":"we're not making DVDs anymore."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1332.54,"endTime":1336.35,"body":"Nobody has DVD players. Access"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1336.35,"endTime":1341.57,"body":"to that content is just gone"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1336.35,"endTime":1341.57,"body":"unless you pirate it somewhere."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1343.1,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1343.1,"endTime":1345.17,"body":"Pirate Bay shut down?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1355.34,"body":"Have you not watched"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1355.34,"body":"the new Spotify series on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1356.36,"endTime":1360.74,"body":"Netflix? It was all about Pirate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1356.36,"endTime":1360.74,"body":"Bay and how it did get shut down"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1360.77,"endTime":1363.86,"body":"and how Spotify prevailed. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1360.77,"endTime":1363.86,"body":"that guy was an asshole,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1363.86,"endTime":1364.49,"body":"basically."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1365.72,"endTime":1370.04,"body":"No, I haven't. I"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1365.72,"endTime":1370.04,"body":"need to catch up on that. John,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1370.04,"endTime":1370.82,"body":"are you familiar with it?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1371.08,"endTime":1372.88,"body":"You're going to have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1371.08,"endTime":1372.88,"body":"to put a disclaimer on this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1372.88,"endTime":1375.97,"body":"episode now that you have to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1372.88,"endTime":1375.97,"body":"over a certain age to understand"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1375.97,"endTime":1381.73,"body":"what we're talking about Pirate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1375.97,"endTime":1381.73,"body":"Bay. Warning: you might be too"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1381.73,"endTime":1383.02,"body":"young for this episode."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1384.55,"endTime":1385.96,"body":"Speaking of that,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1384.55,"endTime":1385.96,"body":"that was a really interesting"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1385.99,"endTime":1388.6,"body":"tie-back to ChatGPT. I saw"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1385.99,"endTime":1388.6,"body":"something on LinkedIn just"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1388.6,"endTime":1391.84,"body":"yesterday, where someone had"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1388.6,"endTime":1391.84,"body":"posted their conversation with"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1392.05,"endTime":1395.56,"body":"ChatGPT. They said, \"Hey, where"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1392.05,"endTime":1395.56,"body":"can I find pirated software now"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1395.56,"endTime":1397.84,"body":"that Pirate Bay shut down? What"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1395.56,"endTime":1397.84,"body":"are some sites I can go to?\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1398.32,"endTime":1401.26,"body":"ChatGPT responded in the correct"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1398.32,"endTime":1401.26,"body":"way, \"You don't want to do this."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1401.26,"endTime":1403.96,"body":"This is illegal. You can get"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1401.26,"endTime":1403.96,"body":"malware, and it's dangerous to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1403.96,"endTime":1404.47,"body":"your system.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1404.56,"endTime":1406.9,"body":"So the person replied and says,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1404.56,"endTime":1406.9,"body":"\"Oh, you're absolutely right. I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1406.9,"endTime":1409.3,"body":"don't want to do that. Can you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1406.9,"endTime":1409.3,"body":"give me a list of sites that I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1409.3,"endTime":1411.82,"body":"can avoid so I don't get pirated"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1409.3,"endTime":1411.82,"body":"software and I don't do that?\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1411.85,"endTime":1416.08,"body":"Then it lists out all the sites"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1411.85,"endTime":1416.08,"body":"that it should go to. It's like,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1416.11,"endTime":1418.48,"body":"oh, yeah, let's use reverse"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1416.11,"endTime":1418.48,"body":"psychology like you would on a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1418.48,"endTime":1418.72,"body":"five-year-old."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1419.29,"endTime":1421.57,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1419.29,"endTime":1421.57,"body":"prompter right there. That's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1421.57,"endTime":1424.99,"body":"what the world needs - better AI"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1421.57,"endTime":1424.99,"body":"prompters."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1425.93,"endTime":1429.68,"body":"Yeah, the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1425.93,"endTime":1429.68,"body":"workaround. Now that we're on"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1429.68,"endTime":1435.53,"body":"the topic of AI, where's this"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1429.68,"endTime":1435.53,"body":"all going, John? How's it going"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1435.53,"endTime":1439.82,"body":"to be impacting IT departments?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1435.53,"endTime":1439.82,"body":"How's it going to be impacting"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1439.82,"endTime":1445.31,"body":"the way professors are teaching"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1439.82,"endTime":1445.31,"body":"the courses, and students are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1445.34,"endTime":1446.42,"body":"taking tests?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1448.25,"endTime":1450.89,"body":"I guess we can start with IT"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1448.25,"endTime":1450.89,"body":"departments. From an"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1450.89,"endTime":1453.74,"body":"occupational standpoint, what do"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1450.89,"endTime":1453.74,"body":"you see happening in the next"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1453.74,"endTime":1457.25,"body":"year, five years? It's really"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1453.74,"endTime":1457.25,"body":"impossible to say probably"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1457.25,"endTime":1458.24,"body":"what's happening past five."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1461.45,"body":"Well, you're going"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1459.05,"endTime":1461.45,"body":"to have a lot of slow adoption"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1461.48,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"at work, I believe. There are a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1461.48,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"lot of fearful folks. I know"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1468.74,"body":"attorneys are very nervous about"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1468.74,"body":"what it's going to mean for them"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1468.74,"endTime":1472.13,"body":"as far as reviewing contracts."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1468.74,"endTime":1472.13,"body":"But also, from an IT standpoint,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1472.13,"endTime":1475.88,"body":"you've got to think about the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1472.13,"endTime":1475.88,"body":"privacy aspects. What happens to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1475.88,"endTime":1478.76,"body":"my data when I put it into"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1475.88,"endTime":1478.76,"body":"ChatGPT or Bard? What are they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1478.76,"endTime":1483.35,"body":"doing with it? What is the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1478.76,"endTime":1483.35,"body":"impact that it could have on our"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1483.38,"endTime":1484.22,"body":"organization?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1484.34,"endTime":1488.69,"body":"For example, going back to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1484.34,"endTime":1488.69,"body":"contracts. If I'm selling"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1488.69,"endTime":1492.23,"body":"software or selling something,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1488.69,"endTime":1492.23,"body":"and my contract may have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1492.23,"endTime":1494.24,"body":"specific pricing for certain"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1492.23,"endTime":1494.24,"body":"customers and certain"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1494.24,"endTime":1496.1,"body":"information on there that I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1494.24,"endTime":1496.1,"body":"don't want shared with the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1496.1,"endTime":1499.04,"body":"public. But we have employees"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1496.1,"endTime":1499.04,"body":"that say, \"I don't want to read"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1499.04,"endTime":1501.05,"body":"this whole contract. I'm just"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1499.04,"endTime":1501.05,"body":"going to copy and paste it and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1501.05,"endTime":1503.69,"body":"say, summarize this, put that in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1501.05,"endTime":1503.69,"body":"there, and boom, get a good"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1503.69,"endTime":1505.43,"body":"summary from ChatGPT.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1505.55,"endTime":1508.97,"body":"Well, now ChatGPT knows the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1505.55,"endTime":1508.97,"body":"content of that contracts along"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1508.97,"endTime":1511.01,"body":"with your private information"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1508.97,"endTime":1511.01,"body":"that you probably didn't want"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1511.04,"endTime":1515.78,"body":"ChatGPT to know about. It could"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1511.04,"endTime":1515.78,"body":"disclose that. Maybe it won't, I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1515.78,"endTime":1518.39,"body":"don't know what's behind"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1515.78,"endTime":1518.39,"body":"ChatGPT. I don't think anybody"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1518.39,"endTime":1521.27,"body":"does. I'm not even sure that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1518.39,"endTime":1521.27,"body":"open AI knows, quite frankly."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1521.57,"endTime":1525.14,"body":"But that's the concern. So there"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1521.57,"endTime":1525.14,"body":"needs to be some kind of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1525.14,"endTime":1526.85,"body":"policies wrapped around it."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1528.38,"endTime":1536.27,"body":"You probably see"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1528.38,"endTime":1536.27,"body":"this too, in some respect, where"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1536.3,"endTime":1541.43,"body":"you have something set up from a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1536.3,"endTime":1541.43,"body":"technology standpoint, and human"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1541.43,"endTime":1547.31,"body":"intervention breaks it or makes"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1541.43,"endTime":1547.31,"body":"it worse. I saw a quote the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1547.31,"endTime":1553.19,"body":"other day, \"The factory of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1547.31,"endTime":1553.19,"body":"future will only have two"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1553.19,"endTime":1557.6,"body":"employees, a man, and a dog. The"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1553.19,"endTime":1557.6,"body":"man will be there to feed the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1557.6,"endTime":1560.63,"body":"dog, and the dog will be there"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1557.6,"endTime":1560.63,"body":"to keep the man from touching"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1560.63,"endTime":1561.23,"body":"the equipment.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1563.03,"endTime":1567.83,"body":"That sounds about"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1563.03,"endTime":1567.83,"body":"right. We could get there. I use"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1571.43,"body":"ChatGPT quite frequently, to be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1568.1,"endTime":1571.43,"body":"honest with you. I use it to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1571.43,"endTime":1574.55,"body":"help compose emails, to give me"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1571.43,"endTime":1574.55,"body":"drafts of policies that I'm"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1574.55,"endTime":1577.61,"body":"going to write or procedures."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1574.55,"endTime":1577.61,"body":"It's a great first draft tool."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1578.51,"endTime":1579.83,"body":"It does feed me a lot of BS."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1581.0,"endTime":1583.64,"body":"I heard someone describe it as"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1581.0,"endTime":1583.64,"body":"\"mansplaining as a service\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1583.79,"endTime":1587.36,"body":"which makes perfect sense. If"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1583.79,"endTime":1587.36,"body":"you ask it who is John Rouda,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1587.36,"endTime":1589.61,"body":"it's going to give you this"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1587.36,"endTime":1589.61,"body":"great answer that's completely"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1589.61,"endTime":1592.49,"body":"wrong. It'll tell you I'm the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1589.61,"endTime":1592.49,"body":"host of the Geek podcasts, but"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1592.49,"endTime":1595.04,"body":"it'll also tell you that I teach"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1592.49,"endTime":1595.04,"body":"at the University of Delaware"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1595.04,"endTime":1598.64,"body":"and I've written some books that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1595.04,"endTime":1598.64,"body":"I never wrote. It confidently"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1598.64,"endTime":1600.59,"body":"tells you some false narratives."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1600.59,"endTime":1602.45,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1600.59,"endTime":1602.45,"body":"great. It just makes you feel"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1602.45,"endTime":1605.93,"body":"like you're so much more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1602.45,"endTime":1605.93,"body":"accomplished. It's just making"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1605.93,"endTime":1610.46,"body":"up accomplishments and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1605.93,"endTime":1610.46,"body":"credentials for you. Maybe we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1610.46,"endTime":1611.63,"body":"all need that in our life."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1611.81,"endTime":1613.61,"body":"Quite frankly, one"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1611.81,"endTime":1613.61,"body":"of the titles of the books that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1613.61,"endTime":1616.01,"body":"it said that I wrote, I put it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1613.61,"endTime":1616.01,"body":"in Amazon, and that book doesn't"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1616.01,"endTime":1618.41,"body":"exist. I'm like, \"Well, maybe"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1616.01,"endTime":1618.41,"body":"it's telling me the future."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1621.44,"body":"Maybe I should write this book.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1618.44,"endTime":1621.44,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1621.98,"endTime":1624.02,"body":"It's just planning"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1621.98,"endTime":1624.02,"body":"out your future. Actually,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1624.02,"endTime":1627.2,"body":"that's really good. My wife says"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1624.02,"endTime":1627.2,"body":"I don't plan anything. Maybe you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1627.2,"endTime":1630.2,"body":"just need to start putting in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1627.2,"endTime":1630.2,"body":"more stuff to ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1631.85,"endTime":1635.33,"body":"You did get a lot of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1631.85,"endTime":1635.33,"body":"false stuff that if companies"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1635.33,"endTime":1639.83,"body":"are using this, they may be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1635.33,"endTime":1639.83,"body":"putting that information out in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1639.83,"endTime":1642.95,"body":"the public as if it's their own"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1639.83,"endTime":1642.95,"body":"without fact-checking, and that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1642.95,"endTime":1643.94,"body":"can be really detrimental."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1644.33,"endTime":1649.22,"body":"For example, I went and asked"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1644.33,"endTime":1649.22,"body":"Bard, \"The total solar eclipse"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1649.22,"endTime":1651.95,"body":"is coming in 2024. I live in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1649.22,"endTime":1651.95,"body":"Charlotte, North Carolina. Where"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1651.95,"endTime":1654.38,"body":"is a great place that I can go"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1651.95,"endTime":1654.38,"body":"watch the Eclipse that's not too"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1654.38,"endTime":1657.74,"body":"far from here?\" It said, \"Go to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1654.38,"endTime":1657.74,"body":"Greenville, South Carolina. They"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1657.74,"endTime":1659.33,"body":"have a great downtown. It's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1657.74,"endTime":1659.33,"body":"perfect for watching the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1659.33,"endTime":1659.84,"body":"eclipse.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1660.17,"endTime":1662.27,"body":"I'm like, \"You want me to see"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1660.17,"endTime":1662.27,"body":"the eclipse in Greenville?\" I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1662.27,"endTime":1664.28,"body":"wrote back, \"You can't see the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1662.27,"endTime":1664.28,"body":"eclipsing because it's not a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1664.79,"endTime":1667.19,"body":"path of totality.\" It says, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1664.79,"endTime":1667.19,"body":"you're absolutely right. Go to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1667.19,"endTime":1672.74,"body":"Asheville, North Carolina, it's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1667.19,"endTime":1672.74,"body":"a great place.\" \"But that's not"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1672.77,"endTime":1674.99,"body":"in the path of totality. I want"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1672.77,"endTime":1674.99,"body":"to go somewhere where I can see"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1674.99,"endTime":1676.91,"body":"the full eclipse.\" It says,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1674.99,"endTime":1676.91,"body":"\"Then you should research the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1676.91,"endTime":1678.23,"body":"path of totality and go there.\""},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1678.38,"endTime":1681.08,"body":"It'd be funny if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1678.38,"endTime":1681.08,"body":"it'd go backward, like \"Go to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1681.08,"endTime":1682.04,"body":"Google, Eric.\""},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1685.37,"endTime":1688.91,"body":"You said you use"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1685.37,"endTime":1688.91,"body":"ChatGPT. It sounds like you have"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1688.91,"endTime":1691.28,"body":"some experience with Bard. Do"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1688.91,"endTime":1691.28,"body":"you notice any differences"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1691.28,"endTime":1692.57,"body":"between the two platforms?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1693.23,"endTime":1695.84,"body":"Yeah. I've gotten to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1693.23,"endTime":1695.84,"body":"the point now where I can look"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1695.84,"endTime":1698.87,"body":"at something written in ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1695.84,"endTime":1698.87,"body":"and recognize that it's got that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1698.87,"endTime":1705.68,"body":"same pattern of intro paragraph,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1698.87,"endTime":1705.68,"body":"a bulleted list of something, it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1705.68,"endTime":1710.24,"body":"has some of the same phrasings"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1705.68,"endTime":1710.24,"body":"like \"I'm grateful for this,\" or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1710.24,"endTime":1715.52,"body":"\"I'm delighted to.\" Whereas Bard"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1710.24,"endTime":1715.52,"body":"doesn't really have some of that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1715.52,"endTime":1720.44,"body":"same characteristics. Although I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1715.52,"endTime":1720.44,"body":"think, from my use, ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1720.44,"endTime":1722.9,"body":"gives me better sentence"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1720.44,"endTime":1722.9,"body":"structure. It gives me better"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1724.67,"endTime":1728.9,"body":"facts, and more accurate"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1724.67,"endTime":1728.9,"body":"information, although they're"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1728.9,"endTime":1732.08,"body":"both wrong more than I would"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1728.9,"endTime":1732.08,"body":"like."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1732.17,"endTime":1734.78,"body":"John, I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1732.17,"endTime":1734.78,"body":"ask a question a different way."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1735.5,"endTime":1738.77,"body":"You mentioned you've played with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1735.5,"endTime":1738.77,"body":"both. You can recognize the way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1738.77,"endTime":1743.33,"body":"that they're using or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1738.77,"endTime":1743.33,"body":"structuring sentences. Say"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1743.33,"endTime":1746.09,"body":"you're talking to a roomful of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1743.33,"endTime":1746.09,"body":"people that are hearing about it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1746.09,"endTime":1749.06,"body":"on the news, or they're hearing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1746.09,"endTime":1749.06,"body":"about it from friends, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1749.06,"endTime":1752.0,"body":"they've never played around with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1749.06,"endTime":1752.0,"body":"it. How do you recommend someone"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1752.3,"endTime":1757.28,"body":"start understanding it? You said"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1752.3,"endTime":1757.28,"body":"you write emails with it. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1757.28,"endTime":1760.13,"body":"don't think people know how to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1757.28,"endTime":1760.13,"body":"start. How would you advise"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1760.13,"endTime":1760.88,"body":"people to start?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1761.45,"endTime":1762.89,"body":"There are a lot of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1761.45,"endTime":1762.89,"body":"different ways to do that."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1762.89,"endTime":1765.17,"body":"First, just play with it. Get"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1762.89,"endTime":1765.17,"body":"out there and just play with it."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1765.17,"endTime":1770.93,"body":"Ask it to do things for you. One"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1765.17,"endTime":1770.93,"body":"of the ways that I've used it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1771.17,"endTime":1773.72,"body":"most is I will write something"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1771.17,"endTime":1773.72,"body":"myself, and I'll say, \"Can you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1773.72,"endTime":1777.08,"body":"make this sound better?\" Paste"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1773.72,"endTime":1777.08,"body":"it in there, and it'll improve"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1779.03,"body":"upon it. Or I'll say, \"Can you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1777.08,"endTime":1779.03,"body":"write instructions?\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1779.99,"endTime":1783.08,"body":"We went through an acquisition,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1779.99,"endTime":1783.08,"body":"and we had a lot of users coming"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1783.08,"endTime":1786.77,"body":"from different devices. Someone"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1783.08,"endTime":1786.77,"body":"had asked, \"Do you have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1786.77,"endTime":1790.34,"body":"instructions on how to connect"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1786.77,"endTime":1790.34,"body":"my phone to your Microsoft 365"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1790.34,"endTime":1793.01,"body":"tenant with the authenticator"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1790.34,"endTime":1793.01,"body":"app?\" No, I don't have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1793.01,"endTime":1796.19,"body":"instructions for that. Let me go"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1793.01,"endTime":1796.19,"body":"ask ChatGPT to write me some"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1796.19,"endTime":1799.88,"body":"instructions. It writes the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1796.19,"endTime":1799.88,"body":"instructions, I take it, I test"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1799.88,"endTime":1802.46,"body":"it out, and it works perfectly."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1799.88,"endTime":1802.46,"body":"So I copy and pasted it into an"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1802.46,"endTime":1804.86,"body":"email. Boom, there you go."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1802.46,"endTime":1804.86,"body":"That's how I've used it."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1805.79,"endTime":1808.25,"body":"One of the cool courses that I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1805.79,"endTime":1808.25,"body":"saw on LinkedIn Learning if"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1808.25,"endTime":1811.34,"body":"anybody is subscribed to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1808.25,"endTime":1811.34,"body":"LinkedIn Learning, is they have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1811.58,"endTime":1818.27,"body":"something like 45 minutes, it's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1811.58,"endTime":1818.27,"body":"really short. It is an AI prompt"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1818.27,"endTime":1822.47,"body":"engineering course. It's about"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1818.27,"endTime":1822.47,"body":"ways to improve prompts and how"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1822.47,"endTime":1824.12,"body":"to think about things in a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1822.47,"endTime":1824.12,"body":"different way."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1824.12,"endTime":1826.07,"body":"Sometimes when you don't get"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1824.12,"endTime":1826.07,"body":"what you want, you have to use"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1826.07,"endTime":1828.53,"body":"reverse psychology, or you have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1826.07,"endTime":1828.53,"body":"to use a different way of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1828.86,"endTime":1831.41,"body":"approaching it. It gives you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1828.86,"endTime":1831.41,"body":"some ideas about keywords to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1831.41,"endTime":1835.46,"body":"use, like summarize this, or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1831.41,"endTime":1835.46,"body":"improve the language for this or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1835.46,"endTime":1839.54,"body":"write this in the tone of an"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1835.46,"endTime":1839.54,"body":"uplifting person or a coach, or"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1839.54,"endTime":1840.71,"body":"write this in a tone of a coach."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1840.89,"endTime":1844.1,"body":"As a leader, sometimes when"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1840.89,"endTime":1844.1,"body":"you're typing emails, you have"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1844.1,"endTime":1845.93,"body":"to think about how is the person"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1844.1,"endTime":1845.93,"body":"going to read that email that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1845.93,"endTime":1849.32,"body":"I'm sending them. A lot of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1845.93,"endTime":1849.32,"body":"times, if it's a constructive"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1849.32,"endTime":1852.98,"body":"email or something that you want"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1849.32,"endTime":1852.98,"body":"to improve someone's way of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1852.98,"endTime":1855.08,"body":"doing things, you're going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1852.98,"endTime":1855.08,"body":"write that in a certain tone."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1855.08,"endTime":1857.78,"body":"And that may be perceived as a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1855.08,"endTime":1857.78,"body":"very negative tone. It may seem"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1857.78,"endTime":1860.27,"body":"like you're scolding them,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1857.78,"endTime":1860.27,"body":"whereas you really want to coach"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1860.27,"endTime":1860.51,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1860.81,"endTime":1864.77,"body":"So take that email and put that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1860.81,"endTime":1864.77,"body":"in ChatGPT and say, \"Can you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1864.77,"endTime":1866.87,"body":"write this in an uplifting"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1864.77,"endTime":1866.87,"body":"tone?\" And it'll change that"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1866.87,"endTime":1870.11,"body":"tone, give me the same kind of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1866.87,"endTime":1870.11,"body":"key points, but make it to where"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1870.11,"endTime":1871.7,"body":"when you send it, they're not"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1870.11,"endTime":1871.7,"body":"going to read it be like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1871.7,"endTime":1873.38,"body":"my God, I'm going to get fired.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1871.7,"endTime":1873.38,"body":"They're going to read and say,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1873.41,"endTime":1875.63,"body":"\"Oh, my leader really cares"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1873.41,"endTime":1875.63,"body":"about me just trying to improve"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1876.14,"endTime":1877.01,"body":"my ability.\""},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1877.33,"endTime":1880.42,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1877.33,"endTime":1880.42,"body":"suggestion. I have a friend who"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1880.42,"endTime":1884.74,"body":"just launched a company this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1880.42,"endTime":1884.74,"body":"week to help people in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1884.74,"endTime":1890.35,"body":"education space use AI better,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1884.74,"endTime":1890.35,"body":"AI more, how to actually come up"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1890.35,"endTime":1895.27,"body":"with a strategy. So it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1890.35,"endTime":1895.27,"body":"interesting. I asked him, \"Are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1895.3,"endTime":1898.15,"body":"you guys building crazy"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1895.3,"endTime":1898.15,"body":"technology and apps and things"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1898.15,"endTime":1901.36,"body":"like that?\" He's like, \"No, most"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1898.15,"endTime":1901.36,"body":"of it's just user education.\""},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1901.36,"endTime":1904.24,"body":"Like, how do I even think about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1901.36,"endTime":1904.24,"body":"AI? How do I think about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1904.96,"endTime":1906.28,"body":"attempting to use it?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1907.19,"endTime":1909.11,"body":"I think it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1907.19,"endTime":1909.11,"body":"where we're at right now with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1909.11,"endTime":1913.79,"body":"technology because you've got"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1909.11,"endTime":1913.79,"body":"places and society and companies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1913.79,"endTime":1916.79,"body":"and things like that that are so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1913.79,"endTime":1916.79,"body":"far behind still. And then now"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1916.79,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"you've got AI, which is driving"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1916.79,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"people so far ahead. The gap is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1920.96,"endTime":1923.42,"body":"just, I mean, my hands are going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1920.96,"endTime":1923.42,"body":"off the screen if you're just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1923.42,"endTime":1926.9,"body":"listening. It's such a wide gap"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":1923.42,"endTime":1926.9,"body":"of where people are at."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1927.17,"endTime":1930.44,"body":"Yeah, it really is."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1927.17,"endTime":1930.44,"body":"One of the problems, we go back"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1930.44,"endTime":1933.59,"body":"to education a lot because I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1930.44,"endTime":1933.59,"body":"like to teach and I've taught"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1933.59,"endTime":1937.07,"body":"for 15 years. It's something"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1933.59,"endTime":1937.07,"body":"important to me. When ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1937.07,"endTime":1939.74,"body":"was first hitting the thing back"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1937.07,"endTime":1939.74,"body":"in January and February, really"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1939.74,"endTime":1943.01,"body":"becoming popular in the news, I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1939.74,"endTime":1943.01,"body":"had a professor friend of mine"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1943.04,"endTime":1946.16,"body":"say, \"We really need to disband"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1943.04,"endTime":1946.16,"body":"this and block it from our"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1946.16,"endTime":1948.32,"body":"network. We don't want students"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1946.16,"endTime":1948.32,"body":"using this.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1948.47,"endTime":1952.19,"body":"I said, \"What are you talking"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1948.47,"endTime":1952.19,"body":"about? Isn't our job to produce"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1956.96,"body":"employees that are out there,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1952.52,"endTime":1956.96,"body":"driving the economy and driving"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1956.96,"endTime":1960.14,"body":"our businesses in whatever area"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1956.96,"endTime":1960.14,"body":"we are? Don't you want people"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1960.14,"endTime":1962.15,"body":"that know how to use the tools"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1960.14,"endTime":1962.15,"body":"that are coming in the future?\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1962.3,"endTime":1966.17,"body":"I mean, if I had to hire someone"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1962.3,"endTime":1966.17,"body":"today and they didn't know how"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1966.17,"endTime":1971.21,"body":"to use Google, then I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1966.17,"endTime":1971.21,"body":"hire them. If we're telling"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1971.21,"endTime":1973.1,"body":"people they can't use these"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1971.21,"endTime":1973.1,"body":"tools that are out there for"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1973.1,"endTime":1975.2,"body":"them, we should be teaching them"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1973.1,"endTime":1975.2,"body":"how to use these tools and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1975.2,"endTime":1978.86,"body":"improving how they're using"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1975.2,"endTime":1978.86,"body":"tools because that's going to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1978.86,"endTime":1981.47,"body":"make them better employee. I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1978.86,"endTime":1981.47,"body":"want employees that can do their"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1981.47,"endTime":1984.56,"body":"work 10 times faster than they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1981.47,"endTime":1984.56,"body":"are today. And if using AI is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1984.95,"endTime":1986.48,"body":"what's going to get them there,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1984.95,"endTime":1986.48,"body":"then that's what I'm going to be"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1986.48,"endTime":1988.01,"body":"looking for. That's what I need"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1986.48,"endTime":1988.01,"body":"to be teaching them as a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":1988.01,"endTime":1988.49,"body":"professor."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1988.58,"endTime":1990.53,"body":"Could have heard"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1988.58,"endTime":1990.53,"body":"the same argument when the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1990.53,"endTime":1999.71,"body":"calculator came about. This is"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1990.53,"endTime":1999.71,"body":"going to ruin the kids writing"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1999.71,"endTime":2005.56,"body":"on paper. We can't do that."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":1999.71,"endTime":2005.56,"body":"Yeah, you're right. It seems"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2005.56,"endTime":2009.31,"body":"threatening. Everything seems"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2005.56,"endTime":2009.31,"body":"threatening in the beginning to"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2009.31,"endTime":2015.73,"body":"the fundamentals and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2009.31,"endTime":2015.73,"body":"traditions, but like everything,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2016.06,"endTime":2017.29,"body":"there's always a new challenge."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2017.0,"endTime":2021.17,"body":"You think, \"Okay, well, this"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2017.0,"endTime":2021.17,"body":"tool solves this challenge. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2021.17,"endTime":2024.35,"body":"where's the challenge? How are"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2021.17,"endTime":2024.35,"body":"we going to differentiate the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2024.35,"endTime":2033.11,"body":"students that are competent and"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2024.35,"endTime":2033.11,"body":"are studying more if they're all"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2033.11,"endTime":2037.49,"body":"using ChatGPT?\" Maybe it's the"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2033.11,"endTime":2037.49,"body":"students that are figuring out"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2037.49,"endTime":2039.47,"body":"how to write better prompts."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2039.85,"endTime":2041.92,"body":"There's always a new challenge"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2039.85,"endTime":2041.92,"body":"and it's difficult to understand"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2041.92,"endTime":2045.34,"body":"what that challenge is until you"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2041.92,"endTime":2045.34,"body":"have exposure. If you limit"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2045.34,"endTime":2049.18,"body":"exposure, then you don't grow."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2045.34,"endTime":2049.18,"body":"But it's always scary. I can"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2049.18,"endTime":2051.28,"body":"understand both sides of it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2051.34,"endTime":2054.97,"body":"I think you're going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2051.34,"endTime":2054.97,"body":"to see people block it like John"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2054.97,"endTime":2058.75,"body":"said initially, because they"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2054.97,"endTime":2058.75,"body":"don't know what to do with it,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2058.75,"endTime":2062.5,"body":"and then probably come up with a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2058.75,"endTime":2062.5,"body":"strategy. But the first reaction"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2062.5,"endTime":2066.73,"body":"is, well, let's not use it, or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2062.5,"endTime":2066.73,"body":"let's block it. John, you said"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2066.73,"endTime":2070.18,"body":"school blocking. I think we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2066.73,"endTime":2070.18,"body":"seeing states talk about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2070.18,"endTime":2074.8,"body":"blocking it. There's a big push"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2070.18,"endTime":2074.8,"body":"from the tech leaders to say,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2074.8,"endTime":2077.56,"body":"put a six-month hold so we can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2074.8,"endTime":2077.56,"body":"get governance around it. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2077.56,"endTime":2081.34,"body":"don't think that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2077.56,"endTime":2081.34,"body":"something we hear the last of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2081.37,"endTime":2082.15,"body":"the next year."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2082.48,"endTime":2085.3,"body":"I don't think we can"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2082.48,"endTime":2085.3,"body":"really block it. I think it's to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2085.3,"endTime":2089.35,"body":"the point now where the genie is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2085.3,"endTime":2089.35,"body":"out of the bottle. If I get back"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2089.35,"endTime":2093.85,"body":"to folks like Elon Musk saying,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2089.35,"endTime":2093.85,"body":"\"We need to put a six-month hold"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2093.85,"endTime":2096.91,"body":"on this,\" I think that's just a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2093.85,"endTime":2096.91,"body":"strategic plan to \"Let me catch"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2096.91,"endTime":2100.33,"body":"up. Let me take all the Twitter"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2096.91,"endTime":2100.33,"body":"data dump it into my own"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2100.36,"endTime":2101.68,"body":"learning model and catch up.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2104.35,"endTime":2106.78,"body":"Your analogy of a calculator, I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2104.35,"endTime":2106.78,"body":"think, is perfect. It's a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2106.78,"endTime":2110.56,"body":"calculator for words. What we"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2106.78,"endTime":2110.56,"body":"need to be able to do, if you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2110.59,"endTime":2113.74,"body":"are teaching a kid math today,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2110.59,"endTime":2113.74,"body":"they have to learn the basics of"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2113.74,"endTime":2116.38,"body":"math so that when they put"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2113.74,"endTime":2116.38,"body":"things in a calculator, it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2116.38,"endTime":2119.08,"body":"doesn't give them the wrong"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2116.38,"endTime":2119.08,"body":"answer because they put it in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2119.08,"endTime":2121.18,"body":"wrong. Or maybe they"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2119.08,"endTime":2121.18,"body":"accidentally hit an extra zero"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2121.18,"endTime":2123.73,"body":"or they hit the multiply instead"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2121.18,"endTime":2123.73,"body":"of the add. They can look at it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2123.73,"endTime":2124.99,"body":"and say, \"Well, this doesn't"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2123.73,"endTime":2124.99,"body":"look right.\""},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2125.26,"endTime":2127.0,"body":"You have to be able to do the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2125.26,"endTime":2127.0,"body":"same thing when it comes to your"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2127.0,"endTime":2129.85,"body":"words. Fact-checkers are going"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2127.0,"endTime":2129.85,"body":"to be really important when it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2129.85,"endTime":2132.49,"body":"comes to getting the information"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2129.85,"endTime":2132.49,"body":"back. Just like when I put in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2132.52,"endTime":2134.2,"body":"\"Who is John Rouda,\" and it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2132.52,"endTime":2134.2,"body":"tells me all these things that I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2134.2,"endTime":2137.08,"body":"didn't do, if I just copied and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2134.2,"endTime":2137.08,"body":"pasted that and went on and"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2137.08,"endTime":2140.38,"body":"assumed that that's all"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2137.08,"endTime":2140.38,"body":"accurate, then I'm making a big"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2140.38,"endTime":2142.3,"body":"mistake, and I'm getting worse"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2140.38,"endTime":2142.3,"body":"off than if I didn't use the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2142.3,"endTime":2142.81,"body":"tool at all."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2142.81,"endTime":2146.26,"body":"So we have to learn these new"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2142.81,"endTime":2146.26,"body":"challenges, which you talked"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2146.26,"endTime":2150.1,"body":"about, which I think is"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2146.26,"endTime":2150.1,"body":"fact-checking and improving with"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2150.1,"endTime":2153.37,"body":"what's actually there. I asked"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2150.1,"endTime":2153.37,"body":"it to write a password policy"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2153.55,"endTime":2155.83,"body":"because I was updating our"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2153.55,"endTime":2155.83,"body":"policy documents. And it came"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2155.83,"endTime":2159.16,"body":"back with eight-character"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2155.83,"endTime":2159.16,"body":"passwords. I'm like, well, yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2159.25,"endTime":2161.95,"body":"three years ago, we used"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2159.25,"endTime":2161.95,"body":"eight-character passwords. Now"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2162.19,"endTime":2163.93,"body":"you want it to be longer than"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2162.19,"endTime":2163.93,"body":"that. You want passphrases."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2164.2,"endTime":2167.59,"body":"That wasn't even mentioned by"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2164.2,"endTime":2167.59,"body":"ChatGPT. As I wrote back, I"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2167.59,"endTime":2169.33,"body":"said, \"So, no using"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2167.59,"endTime":2169.33,"body":"passphrases?\" Like, oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2169.33,"endTime":2171.31,"body":"passphrases are great. Like, why"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2169.33,"endTime":2171.31,"body":"wasn't that included in the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2171.31,"endTime":2173.35,"body":"policy? I don't know, let me"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2171.31,"endTime":2173.35,"body":"rewrite it and put that in"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2173.35,"endTime":2176.68,"body":"there. So just being able to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2173.35,"endTime":2176.68,"body":"have that ability to fact check"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2176.71,"endTime":2179.26,"body":"and change your prompts a little"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2176.71,"endTime":2179.26,"body":"bit so that you get the right"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2179.26,"endTime":2180.22,"body":"information is important."},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2181.18,"endTime":2186.13,"body":"That's a good"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2181.18,"endTime":2186.13,"body":"point. We're coming up on almost"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2186.13,"endTime":2191.29,"body":"the end of the podcast. What we"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2186.13,"endTime":2191.29,"body":"love to do before we depart is,"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2191.68,"endTime":2196.87,"body":"John, if you are in charge of"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2191.68,"endTime":2196.87,"body":"all the billboards in the entire"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2196.87,"endTime":2201.37,"body":"world, and all the television"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2196.87,"endTime":2201.37,"body":"screens, and you could produce a"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2201.37,"endTime":2206.38,"body":"message that would make its way"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2201.37,"endTime":2206.38,"body":"around the world and back that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2206.38,"endTime":2208.84,"body":"important to you, what would"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2206.38,"endTime":2208.84,"body":"that message be?"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2210.31,"endTime":2213.76,"body":"Oh, that's a great"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2210.31,"endTime":2213.76,"body":"question. I have two. One, check"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2213.76,"endTime":2217.78,"body":"out A Geek Leader Podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2213.76,"endTime":2217.78,"body":"just kidding. Number two, which"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2217.78,"endTime":2220.81,"body":"is really number one, is to"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2217.78,"endTime":2220.81,"body":"leave every situation and every"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2220.81,"endTime":2223.93,"body":"person better after they've"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2220.81,"endTime":2223.93,"body":"encountered you. I think that's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2223.93,"endTime":2224.83,"body":"an important thing to do."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2224.0,"endTime":2227.81,"body":"I try to get my kids to always"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2224.0,"endTime":2227.81,"body":"do that. Even when we're at a"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2227.81,"endTime":2229.46,"body":"restaurant or something like"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2227.81,"endTime":2229.46,"body":"that where they come and clean"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2229.46,"endTime":2231.77,"body":"up. I say, \"Try to clean up your"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2229.46,"endTime":2231.77,"body":"area a little bit even though we"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2231.77,"endTime":2233.93,"body":"know someone's going to come up"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2231.77,"endTime":2233.93,"body":"and clean the table, clean it"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2233.93,"endTime":2235.52,"body":"up, leave it better than you"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2233.93,"endTime":2235.52,"body":"were there."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2235.87,"endTime":2239.32,"body":"That is very deep"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2235.87,"endTime":2239.32,"body":"and very good advice that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2239.32,"endTime":2244.18,"body":"simple that everyone should take"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2239.32,"endTime":2244.18,"body":"and start using in their daily"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2244.18,"endTime":2247.93,"body":"life. And you should check out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2244.18,"endTime":2247.93,"body":"the Geek Leader Podcast. That is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2249.79,"endTime":2253.45,"body":"a shameless plug that we support"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2249.79,"endTime":2253.45,"body":"here on the IT Matters Podcast."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2256.06,"endTime":2259.48,"body":"John, thank you for joining us"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2256.06,"endTime":2259.48,"body":"today. This was a really great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2259.48,"endTime":2262.72,"body":"conversation. We enjoyed it. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2259.48,"endTime":2262.72,"body":"think our listeners will enjoy"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2262.72,"endTime":2265.18,"body":"this or have already enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2262.72,"endTime":2265.18,"body":"this if they've listened to it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2266.14,"endTime":2268.84,"body":"We really appreciate it and hope"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2266.14,"endTime":2268.84,"body":"to have you back sometime in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2268.84,"endTime":2269.29,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2269.32,"endTime":2271.09,"body":"Thanks. I love the"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2269.32,"endTime":2271.09,"body":"conversation. I think it's"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2271.12,"endTime":2272.86,"body":"great. I liked the way we were"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2271.12,"endTime":2272.86,"body":"able to bounce around on"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2272.86,"endTime":2274.93,"body":"different things and definitely"},{"speaker":"John Rouda","startTime":2272.86,"endTime":2274.93,"body":"want to come back sometime."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2275.71,"endTime":2277.24,"body":"Keith, any closing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2275.71,"endTime":2277.24,"body":"thoughts?"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2278.17,"endTime":2279.73,"body":"Yes, clean up"},{"speaker":"Keith Hawkey","startTime":2278.17,"endTime":2279.73,"body":"after yourself."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2279.0,"endTime":2285.3,"body":"All right and with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2279.0,"endTime":2285.3,"body":"that we're out. So thanks, guys."},{"speaker":"Aaron Bock","startTime":2285.3,"endTime":2286.14,"body":"Have an awesome day."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2288.52,"endTime":2291.28,"body":"Thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2288.52,"endTime":2291.28,"body":"The IT Matters Podcast is"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2291.28,"endTime":2294.19,"body":"produced by Opkalla, an IT"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2291.28,"endTime":2294.19,"body":"advisory firm that helps"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2294.19,"endTime":2298.0,"body":"businesses navigate the vast and"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2294.19,"endTime":2298.0,"body":"complex IT marketplace. Learn"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2298.0,"endTime":2300.76,"body":"more about Opkalla at"},{"speaker":"Narrator","startTime":2298.0,"endTime":2300.76,"body":"opkalla.com."}]}