WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:29.724 --> 00:01:33.834 duke: Okay folks, today we have a, , huge treat for you. 00:01:34.184 --> 00:01:39.974 I was just browsing the, , SuperSecretMVP channels, Where all the MVPs chat and 00:01:39.974 --> 00:01:41.564 plan to take over the world, such things. 00:01:41.954 --> 00:01:48.641 And I saw a story about somebody who had upgraded their big financial 00:01:48.641 --> 00:01:55.061 client to Washington in eight days, using no exotic external 00:01:55.061 --> 00:01:57.141 tools, just what's in service now. 00:01:57.367 --> 00:02:00.037 he is a friend of the channel already. 00:02:00.272 --> 00:02:05.492 , and so we welcome back Mark Rothoff to chat with us again about this amazing 00:02:05.492 --> 00:02:07.332 upgrade experience while it's still fresh. 00:02:07.992 --> 00:02:09.032 , mark: Thank you for having me. 00:02:09.042 --> 00:02:10.442 It's always a pleasure. 00:02:10.471 --> 00:02:11.261 Let's have some fun. 00:02:11.881 --> 00:02:12.861 duke: for sure, man. 00:02:13.071 --> 00:02:14.401 So, set the stage here. 00:02:14.401 --> 00:02:15.741 What version were they at? 00:02:15.991 --> 00:02:20.041 How big an instance, how complex, what were we staring at down the 00:02:20.041 --> 00:02:23.141 barrel before we decided, Hey, let's upgrade this thing in eight days? 00:02:23.601 --> 00:02:24.081 mark: Yeah. 00:02:24.181 --> 00:02:27.951 , actually, , they were a version behind, so they were actually on, , on 00:02:27.961 --> 00:02:33.981 Utah, , and that's all already, , a bit of the reason why we went to, , Yeah, 00:02:33.981 --> 00:02:38.331 the upgrade in a week because, , I got some pocket change, , to, make this 00:02:38.331 --> 00:02:40.021 change and , to , upgrade in a week. 00:02:40.361 --> 00:02:43.521 the instance itself, it's, , one of the largest financial 00:02:43.521 --> 00:02:44.661 companies in the Netherlands. 00:02:44.711 --> 00:02:48.731 The instance is not that big anymore because I've been busy with. 00:02:49.126 --> 00:02:51.466 My database footprint work. 00:02:52.466 --> 00:02:54.866 So, , the footprint, , was cut in half. 00:02:55.716 --> 00:02:58.186 , so now it's, , only , seven terabytes. 00:02:58.186 --> 00:03:00.586 Uh, 00:03:00.731 --> 00:03:01.211 duke: terabytes. 00:03:02.846 --> 00:03:05.216 mark: it was a bit more, but yeah, then. 00:03:05.566 --> 00:03:07.796 I came along, that's my job, I guess. 00:03:08.321 --> 00:03:08.641 duke: Uh huh. 00:03:27.267 --> 00:03:27.702 mark: a lot of code. 00:03:28.212 --> 00:03:29.362 Custom work. 00:03:30.362 --> 00:03:33.192 , Also some things really legacy. 00:03:33.192 --> 00:03:36.372 It's, , still a lot of workflow, for example, and, , still not 00:03:36.392 --> 00:03:38.212 really applying flow designer. 00:03:38.742 --> 00:03:41.272 , but yeah, , it's just an instance like. 00:03:41.827 --> 00:03:43.087 , we see a lot, I guess. 00:03:44.574 --> 00:03:47.424 that's a little bit, background about the instance. 00:03:47.484 --> 00:03:47.804 Yeah. 00:03:48.146 --> 00:03:51.711 CJ: the thing about your post on the super secret slack channel, . That 00:03:51.711 --> 00:03:54.981 really, I think takes something that's already extraordinary. 00:03:55.113 --> 00:03:59.853 and then elevates the two, like the next level of like outer space is that 00:03:59.853 --> 00:04:02.943 you said that you did it all using only , the free tools in the platform, 00:04:03.648 --> 00:04:04.328 mark: That's correct. 00:04:04.328 --> 00:04:04.698 Yeah. 00:04:05.298 --> 00:04:12.518 , just, , normal upgrade, preview, upgrade, monitor, , also with the cloning, just 00:04:12.548 --> 00:04:16.948 the clone definitions, the clone preserves excludes, , clone cleanup sketch. 00:04:17.503 --> 00:04:22.870 , ATF is in place, , also some bits are not in place, , so like, uh, we're not, not 00:04:22.910 --> 00:04:27.610 using CloudRunner, still we're not using CloudRunner, we really have to, so that's 00:04:27.620 --> 00:04:31.360 also one of the things for the evaluation, , which we'll have in a few days. 00:04:32.185 --> 00:04:37.615 But yeah, just only out of the box, , free available plugins and capabilities. 00:04:38.125 --> 00:04:42.775 , so we also actually used a few of the new Washington bits or actually Vancouver 00:04:42.775 --> 00:04:45.435 bits, , like the skipped record rules. 00:04:46.225 --> 00:04:50.345 , but we couldn't apply it automatically because the customer is coming from Utah. 00:04:50.698 --> 00:04:53.918 We had to run them manually, but, , yeah, we also applied that. 00:04:53.918 --> 00:04:57.838 So, uh, really nice to see, , because I guess not that many customers 00:04:57.838 --> 00:05:00.318 are still already using it. 00:05:00.388 --> 00:05:04.408 , but yeah, things like, , skip record rules can help. 00:05:04.593 --> 00:05:10.153 , but yeah, just the out of the box available, , free capabilities, 00:05:10.643 --> 00:05:11.963 , yeah, and things like ATF. 00:05:12.013 --> 00:05:14.300 So, yeah, , it's all possible. 00:05:15.640 --> 00:05:18.030 duke: I think we should break some of those down a bit because there 00:05:18.030 --> 00:05:23.850 might be people, some of them might be on this call, who have never 00:05:23.850 --> 00:05:24.920 heard of a couple of those things. 00:05:25.180 --> 00:05:29.160 So I know that , the clone management tools are awesome. 00:05:29.470 --> 00:05:30.790 ATF is. 00:05:31.870 --> 00:05:32.520 ATF. 00:05:32.967 --> 00:05:33.817 , Cloudrunner. 00:05:34.127 --> 00:05:35.387 Tell us what Cloudrunner is. 00:05:36.647 --> 00:05:37.117 mark: Ooh. 00:05:37.217 --> 00:05:38.397 What is cloud runner? 00:05:38.617 --> 00:05:40.757 Basically, if you would, run ATF. 00:05:41.062 --> 00:05:48.592 , especially a few releases ago, then you would run ATF, keep your, , laptop 00:05:48.622 --> 00:05:53.142 open, keep your screen open, keep it running on the background, but 00:05:53.142 --> 00:05:55.682 you, yeah, it was really a attended. 00:05:56.352 --> 00:05:56.952 Thing, right? 00:05:56.952 --> 00:05:58.812 You really have to be on it. 00:05:59.412 --> 00:06:03.852 , and then a few releases ago serves now already introduced something that 00:06:03.852 --> 00:06:07.912 you could spin up your own, , Linux or windows server, and, , you could 00:06:07.942 --> 00:06:10.632 run the, , the ATF, , from there. 00:06:11.242 --> 00:06:16.302 , but now since I don't know, two or three releases, something like that. 00:06:16.322 --> 00:06:17.062 I don't know exactly. 00:06:17.702 --> 00:06:18.882 , serves now also has. 00:06:19.617 --> 00:06:26.817 Cloud runner, , where you can execute two, uh runs at the same time. 00:06:26.827 --> 00:06:29.477 I don't know the exact wording, but you can run. 00:06:29.787 --> 00:06:30.187 Yeah. 00:06:30.267 --> 00:06:31.947 Two, two runs at the same time. 00:06:32.357 --> 00:06:35.027 , on something that serves now is actually hosting. 00:06:35.227 --> 00:06:38.557 If you want to perform more at the same time. 00:06:38.832 --> 00:06:42.812 , then you can buy that, but at least you can, , yeah, run to, 00:06:42.842 --> 00:06:44.722 yeah, the two runs in parallel. 00:06:45.122 --> 00:06:49.662 , so you don't have to have your laptop still open or whatever. 00:06:49.682 --> 00:06:52.042 You would just do that to cloud runner. 00:06:52.232 --> 00:06:54.262 It's also pretty easy to set up. 00:06:54.682 --> 00:06:59.032 We also explored it before at the customer, , at, , innovation Friday. 00:06:59.032 --> 00:07:03.362 And it looked really nice, but yeah, then it comes like we need to pick it up. 00:07:03.362 --> 00:07:06.482 It becomes a story, a backlog, et cetera. 00:07:06.482 --> 00:07:06.922 And then. 00:07:07.422 --> 00:07:10.242 Yeah, then it gets a bit quiet. 00:07:11.982 --> 00:07:14.612 So that's still one of the things we do need to apply. 00:07:14.662 --> 00:07:17.402 , but yeah, that's one of the things for the evaluation. 00:07:17.887 --> 00:07:20.677 duke: So the advantage of cloud runner is that you don't need 00:07:20.687 --> 00:07:22.107 to have your laptop open and 00:07:22.592 --> 00:07:25.832 mark: yeah, that's one of the advantages of course, but especially 00:07:26.072 --> 00:07:31.742 when you're talking about upgrade in a week, , then the timelines are so short. 00:07:31.812 --> 00:07:33.982 When are you going to do those tests? 00:07:34.122 --> 00:07:38.422 Well, ideally you would start them at six o'clock in the evening or something. 00:07:38.422 --> 00:07:40.222 Um, Um, right. 00:07:40.282 --> 00:07:46.102 And not at daytime or that someone especially needs to jump on their laptop 00:07:46.132 --> 00:07:48.342 at 10 o'clock in the evening or something. 00:07:48.902 --> 00:07:51.552 , so yeah, I think it has way more advantages. 00:07:51.712 --> 00:07:56.931 And also if you can do two tests at the same time, why can't you? 00:07:57.352 --> 00:08:00.892 Shouldn't we split the ATF suite for tests? 00:08:00.942 --> 00:08:04.992 , so now the execution takes about eight or nine hours. 00:08:05.102 --> 00:08:09.132 Well, maybe we can run two at the same time and it only takes five hours. 00:08:09.732 --> 00:08:13.442 , and you don't have to attend your laptop holder all the time. 00:08:13.893 --> 00:08:16.793 duke: But it still dumps all the findings and stuff in the same place 00:08:16.823 --> 00:08:18.743 as if you had attended it on your lap. 00:08:18.898 --> 00:08:21.998 mark: yeah, the eventual results and everything that stays the 00:08:21.998 --> 00:08:23.808 same, , there's no difference in that. 00:08:24.147 --> 00:08:26.167 So it just makes life easier. 00:08:26.217 --> 00:08:28.957 , you can really run it in attended,, at every time. 00:08:29.007 --> 00:08:31.037 , it makes you way more flexible. 00:08:31.517 --> 00:08:34.317 , , I see good, , potential for that. 00:08:34.407 --> 00:08:34.827 Yeah. 00:08:35.822 --> 00:08:40.672 CJ: Did you set out to set the record for, , world's fastest, , upgrade of a humongous 00:08:40.692 --> 00:08:45.252 company, or did this just happen by like happenstance and you were like, you got 00:08:45.252 --> 00:08:49.202 into, and you were like, you know what, I think I can get this done in a week. 00:08:49.477 --> 00:08:50.207 mark: Yeah. 00:08:50.637 --> 00:08:53.477 , For such a large company, it's quite impressive. 00:08:53.507 --> 00:08:58.697 , I did do a upgrades of a week at smaller companies, but then you're talking about 00:08:58.727 --> 00:09:00.837 instances of less than one terabyte. 00:09:02.237 --> 00:09:07.227 . And then also as a really small user base, but this is quite interesting. 00:09:07.667 --> 00:09:11.757 , but yeah, then, it's also a bit like, where did this come from? 00:09:11.887 --> 00:09:13.637 And, , I'm now with this company. 00:09:14.667 --> 00:09:17.737 For I think one and a half years, I'm working part time 00:09:17.737 --> 00:09:18.947 for them, , three days a week. 00:09:18.947 --> 00:09:21.777 And, , the first upgrade that I saw there was, yeah, it's 00:09:21.777 --> 00:09:23.657 the typical four or five weeks. 00:09:23.977 --> 00:09:28.597 , a lot of, , waste, , I'm seeing it in the, yeah, in the time spent 00:09:28.597 --> 00:09:31.937 , and, , how the testing goes and with stakeholders and everything. 00:09:32.227 --> 00:09:37.302 So already the, upgrades following we, Improved a lot and also the change freeze 00:09:37.302 --> 00:09:42.532 was also limited to a few days instead of like one and a half week But still 00:09:42.532 --> 00:09:46.522 I was like, come on, we should shorten this we can do this within a week. 00:09:46.552 --> 00:09:53.102 Come on and um It's pretty difficult in such a large organization to get things 00:09:53.182 --> 00:10:00.182 moving and changing But, um, yeah, this is one of the things, but this is 00:10:00.182 --> 00:10:01.772 one of the things we did get moving. 00:10:01.772 --> 00:10:06.792 And it, it also was a bit because, , we actually skipped the last upgrade, 00:10:06.872 --> 00:10:11.042 , because we actually, , we're planning to upgrade in January to Vancouver, 00:10:11.442 --> 00:10:14.742 but then of course we have, , like eight different service now teams. 00:10:15.752 --> 00:10:20.982 , it's like 35 or 40, , developers and then one of the teams just says, 00:10:20.982 --> 00:10:22.872 yeah, we don't have time to upgrade. 00:10:23.912 --> 00:10:28.562 Okay, so we're postponing the whole Vancouver upgrade because one of 00:10:28.562 --> 00:10:31.092 the teams thinks that they're busy. 00:10:31.352 --> 00:10:32.702 Well, no one is busy. 00:10:32.782 --> 00:10:34.781 , maybe some individuals are busy. 00:10:35.012 --> 00:10:38.442 But no teams or departments or companies are really busy. 00:10:38.712 --> 00:10:41.202 That's for people who cannot organize their own work. 00:10:41.388 --> 00:10:46.948 , but yeah, one of the trade offs, but one of the trade offs of that was actually, 00:10:47.038 --> 00:10:51.642 well, when we're going to upgrade in a week, so that's, that's a bit how this. 00:10:53.452 --> 00:10:55.701 Um, 00:10:56.602 --> 00:10:59.572 CJ: yeah, I mean, that is crazy to me and you already touched on it, right? 00:10:59.572 --> 00:11:02.272 The typical processes, , 4 to 5 weeks, right? 00:11:02.272 --> 00:11:04.742 I typically recommend with my clients about a 4 week 00:11:04.742 --> 00:11:06.272 process in my document, right? 00:11:06.272 --> 00:11:08.966 And I think I might have done it as quickly as I could. 00:11:09.017 --> 00:11:12.907 As three, if I'm following a formal process, right? 00:11:12.907 --> 00:11:16.087 Like when I was a customer and I owned the instance, I probably did it 00:11:16.087 --> 00:11:17.617 quicker, but I cut a lot of corners, 00:11:18.527 --> 00:11:20.907 duke: Yeah, back when it was just ITSM too, right? 00:11:20.917 --> 00:11:22.427 And a couple of maybe custom apps. 00:11:22.907 --> 00:11:23.187 CJ: Yeah. 00:11:23.187 --> 00:11:24.667 Much smaller company too, right? 00:11:24.667 --> 00:11:27.117 , and we really just running like change management. 00:11:27.117 --> 00:11:30.067 That was the only external facing thing that we cared about. 00:11:30.397 --> 00:11:34.587 And so , it was much easier to just flip some switches and nobody really cared. 00:11:34.737 --> 00:11:35.877 Like I couldn't imagine. 00:11:36.082 --> 00:11:40.252 , upgrading a humongous, , financial organization on top of that and a 00:11:40.252 --> 00:11:41.632 week, that's just amazing to me. 00:11:41.942 --> 00:11:43.852 So, kudos for even, taking that on. 00:11:43.862 --> 00:11:47.152 And especially, it sounds like you already had, like, you've been there a 00:11:47.152 --> 00:11:51.372 while, so you have some history, , with these folks in terms of , being not 00:11:51.372 --> 00:11:54.862 necessarily being the most receptive to the upgrade process at all. 00:11:56.202 --> 00:11:59.802 , . mark: Yeah, it's also because you are dead and already, , for like 00:11:59.802 --> 00:12:04.112 one and a half year, you see how it's a dynamics within the company. 00:12:04.112 --> 00:12:04.772 What's happening? 00:12:04.772 --> 00:12:06.032 Where is all the waste? 00:12:06.032 --> 00:12:06.369 , so. 00:12:07.099 --> 00:12:11.319 And then you're thinking, we should be able to do this differently. 00:12:11.839 --> 00:12:15.279 And, , obviously we did also do some other things like in the background, I 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:19.209 was working on instance scan, so I could run it before a clone, after clone, 00:12:19.219 --> 00:12:20.969 before an upgrade, after an upgrade. 00:12:20.969 --> 00:12:22.689 So you would see some things. 00:12:23.179 --> 00:12:27.579 , obviously we did upgrade one of the instances already a month 00:12:27.579 --> 00:12:31.819 ago, , to see, Hey, what are the skipped updates on patch zero? 00:12:31.819 --> 00:12:33.979 So we know a bit, what can we expect? 00:12:34.454 --> 00:12:37.434 , and we knew, , Oh, one of the things on employee center broke. 00:12:37.434 --> 00:12:40.444 So at that moment we could already create a support case , for 00:12:40.444 --> 00:12:41.904 something with AI search. 00:12:42.194 --> 00:12:45.754 , so there's a little bit of preparation, , but the upgrade 00:12:45.754 --> 00:12:47.674 itself, yeah, that's just, yeah. 00:12:47.674 --> 00:12:48.284 One week. 00:12:48.624 --> 00:12:52.564 It is quite challenging though, because yeah, , you want to clone 00:12:52.704 --> 00:12:57.134 instances, you want to upgrade instances, you want to run your ATFs. 00:12:57.454 --> 00:12:58.774 If you already look at the. 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:03.249 The timelines for that, the duration, like the clone, , also because 00:13:03.249 --> 00:13:05.659 they do, the upgrade on demand. 00:13:06.229 --> 00:13:09.089 , so the clone already takes like eight or nine hours. 00:13:10.079 --> 00:13:14.109 The upgrade itself also about eight hours. 00:13:14.179 --> 00:13:17.249 Then you have ATFs also eight, nine hours. 00:13:18.059 --> 00:13:18.919 So the 00:13:18.939 --> 00:13:20.059 duke: you're left with four days. 00:13:22.029 --> 00:13:25.639 mark: The timelines are getting, pretty heavy or pretty, um, yeah, I don't know, 00:13:25.769 --> 00:13:31.029 duke: you said it took like seven days, were the hours you counting? 00:13:31.739 --> 00:13:34.519 Is where these things were just chugging along, minding their own business? 00:13:35.244 --> 00:13:39.094 , mark: no, it's just really, , in that week, , some of the evenings, nothing was 00:13:39.094 --> 00:13:43.624 happening, , but some of the evenings, indeed, the clones, , were just, , going, 00:13:43.634 --> 00:13:47.444 the upgrade started at ten, uh, at night on, , on Friday night, so it was, 00:13:47.484 --> 00:13:53.454 , finished on Saturday morning, , It's also a bit like just do it, , because if you 00:13:53.504 --> 00:14:00.504 talk about customers with this, or even if it's for two weeks upgrade, then there are 00:14:00.504 --> 00:14:07.394 so many objections and people jumping into fences and they see all kinds of issues. 00:14:08.224 --> 00:14:09.934 So you also just have to do it. 00:14:10.454 --> 00:14:15.944 , and also in this case, it's Washington patch one hotfix two. 00:14:16.004 --> 00:14:16.404 It's. 00:14:17.054 --> 00:14:18.074 Yeah, pretty fresh. 00:14:18.654 --> 00:14:22.164 And what you still hear a lot of people saying it's like, Oh, let's wait a 00:14:22.164 --> 00:14:28.714 few patches and before it gets stable and the first issues are out, but 00:14:28.714 --> 00:14:34.224 that's people mentioning that because they hear other people saying it. 00:14:34.264 --> 00:14:37.624 And because people are already saying that for years and years and years, 00:14:37.634 --> 00:14:41.754 it's not, ServiceNow is not how it was five years or 10 years ago. 00:14:42.224 --> 00:14:44.464 , if now patch one comes out. 00:14:44.989 --> 00:14:49.769 We already had patch zero before and already the first hotfix is coming 00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:53.949 and the second hotfix is coming and now actually already patch two is out. 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:58.419 So the level is way higher than it used to be. 00:14:58.989 --> 00:15:03.029 So you don't need to wait for patch four, five, six or something. 00:15:03.434 --> 00:15:06.164 That's also, yeah, that's ancient history. 00:15:06.264 --> 00:15:11.134 So people talking about those things, they're a bit stuck in the past. 00:15:11.624 --> 00:15:11.954 CJ: Yep. 00:15:12.084 --> 00:15:16.914 So, Mark, , you mentioned a lot of people popping out and saying basically no. 00:15:17.104 --> 00:15:20.534 And I think one of the, , one of the keys , to the success and being able 00:15:20.534 --> 00:15:24.124 to deliver on this, . Is knowing who to talk to, to get a yes. 00:15:24.664 --> 00:15:27.404 So talk a little bit about how you cut through, 00:15:27.524 --> 00:15:29.914 . All of those no's to find the right person. 00:15:30.149 --> 00:15:32.649 To green light this thing and get you that, yes, that you 00:15:32.649 --> 00:15:33.909 need it so that you can do it. 00:15:34.904 --> 00:15:38.544 , mark: I didn't do so much myself in that area. 00:15:38.544 --> 00:15:42.324 I just on the background, I was, , talking with, well, mainly 00:15:42.344 --> 00:15:44.244 three, , people within the company. 00:15:44.244 --> 00:15:47.304 And, also , , the owner of, , of service now within the company. 00:15:47.954 --> 00:15:49.334 , and eventually it. 00:15:49.899 --> 00:15:53.109 He also just had so something like we just have to do it. 00:15:53.109 --> 00:15:57.599 And also because, , before also we skipped the previous upgrade just because of time 00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:00.879 constraints and we're already bad behind. 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:04.619 And, so they also have a feeling like, Hey, we need to do something 00:16:04.709 --> 00:16:06.009 and we need to make progress. 00:16:06.009 --> 00:16:11.429 And we do want to also save time for the future, because if we can pull this off. 00:16:12.424 --> 00:16:26.776 duke: Okay. 00:16:30.368 --> 00:16:31.678 mark: was, yeah, I don't know. 00:16:31.678 --> 00:16:33.148 It was also just, , just do it. 00:16:33.148 --> 00:16:33.618 And, , yeah. 00:16:33.618 --> 00:16:37.658 And also the, just the people really owning serves now also really need to 00:16:37.658 --> 00:16:43.138 be enthusiastic about this and see the opportunity and the possibility and just. 00:16:44.238 --> 00:16:46.088 Just do it and, , and just believe in it. 00:16:46.088 --> 00:16:50.498 And, , yeah, one of the big differences, of course, , is that if you also do 00:16:50.498 --> 00:16:55.048 this for three, four, five weeks, and it really depends on how many people 00:16:55.048 --> 00:17:00.168 are in the company, of course, but then not all the service now teams or all the 00:17:00.168 --> 00:17:02.728 service now developers will be dedicated. 00:17:03.473 --> 00:17:06.083 Busy with upgrading or dedicated available. 00:17:06.103 --> 00:17:09.263 They will just also be busy with doing other stuff. 00:17:09.903 --> 00:17:14.883 If you do this upgrade in a week, then way more people are dedicated available. 00:17:15.296 --> 00:17:19.150 , so that's also a key factor, to getting this, , to a success 00:17:19.410 --> 00:17:21.240 and even that, yeah, yeah, 00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:26.340 duke: I would, I do want to make sure that we hit this one point. 00:17:26.340 --> 00:17:31.390 Cause I don't think anybody can decide , Hey, we're going to do this in a week 00:17:32.860 --> 00:17:34.590 like, and then execute it that way. 00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:37.970 I believe just because it's you, that was there, that there 00:17:37.970 --> 00:17:40.260 was significant amounts of. 00:17:40.820 --> 00:17:46.380 Effort put in beforehand such that you could execute in a week. 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:47.050 Is that true? 00:17:47.530 --> 00:17:49.940 mark: yeah, I think that that helps. 00:17:49.970 --> 00:17:51.410 Um, and also. 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.750 duke: all in one big bite or like a little bit at a time, but I think, I think 00:17:54.750 --> 00:17:58.470 there's a lot of customers that don't even have like ATF running in any capacity. 00:17:58.600 --> 00:18:02.310 So I wonder if you could talk to the level of effort to get cloning 00:18:02.310 --> 00:18:07.010 management ready, ATF, cloud runner, the skipped record rules. 00:18:07.445 --> 00:18:11.995 , what was the journey to get to the point where you could do one week upgrades 00:18:12.885 --> 00:18:13.635 mark: um, 00:18:13.945 --> 00:18:14.695 duke: change freeze? 00:18:15.215 --> 00:18:19.595 mark: yeah, well, I think actually we still have a lot to improve. 00:18:19.645 --> 00:18:23.885 , if you look at the cloning process or how many manual steps we're, , we're 00:18:23.885 --> 00:18:29.861 doing or how long the process, , takes, , but already a lot was in place. 00:18:29.911 --> 00:18:31.481 , and also, it helps that. 00:18:32.066 --> 00:18:32.866 I'm there. 00:18:33.316 --> 00:18:33.656 Yeah. 00:18:33.766 --> 00:18:38.806 It helps that you have a certain name in the, space, a certain track record. 00:18:38.846 --> 00:18:39.486 , that's true. 00:18:40.016 --> 00:18:44.096 , we did, , perform an upgrade a month earlier , on a different instance 00:18:44.326 --> 00:18:48.066 to just see how big is it, , what is happening, , what is going on. 00:18:48.556 --> 00:18:52.196 I was already working on instance scan, , so that customer also now has 00:18:52.226 --> 00:18:54.546 like 800, , scan checks, , in place. 00:18:54.906 --> 00:18:55.806 , ATFs. 00:18:55.866 --> 00:18:58.276 Yeah, a lot of a TF , is being used. 00:18:58.276 --> 00:19:00.166 There is and is in place. 00:19:00.216 --> 00:19:05.116 , still during the upgrade in the week, they expanded it massively. 00:19:05.166 --> 00:19:07.086 , but there was already a lot in place. 00:19:07.164 --> 00:19:10.804 , if you don't have the, cloning and the control, the at don't, , you 00:19:10.804 --> 00:19:12.866 don't have ATFs, , or you have, yeah. 00:19:13.136 --> 00:19:14.817 A lot of stakeholders that want to do. 00:19:15.241 --> 00:19:19.541 every single piece manually, then it becomes really difficult, of course, 00:19:19.541 --> 00:19:23.661 then you, yeah, then pulling something like this off will be really difficult. 00:19:24.431 --> 00:19:28.261 So yeah, you do have to have some pieces in place and , some of the 00:19:28.271 --> 00:19:31.591 teams also do almost all of the stakeholder testing themselves. 00:19:32.076 --> 00:19:35.866 So also the number of stakeholders involved is, pretty limited. 00:19:36.682 --> 00:19:39.922 , But , if I look at the previous upgrades, which took three, four, 00:19:39.922 --> 00:19:42.872 five weeks, then you would just say, Oh, we're going to upgrade and 00:19:42.942 --> 00:19:46.372 you can test and whatever, and then it's, , yeah, it's all over the place. 00:19:46.372 --> 00:19:47.792 Well, when are people going to test? 00:19:47.802 --> 00:19:49.617 And now it's in one week and you just have. 00:19:50.187 --> 00:19:55.817 Yeah, the message to the stakeholders was that's the day that you can test. 00:19:55.937 --> 00:19:56.687 There's no other day. 00:19:57.247 --> 00:19:57.907 That's the day. 00:19:58.517 --> 00:20:04.477 Not everyone really likes being put into pressure like that, but it did work. 00:20:05.067 --> 00:20:10.277 And also because it did came from, , , yeah, , higher management or yeah, people 00:20:10.287 --> 00:20:14.877 a bit higher in the hierarchy in the organization, because I can have a, a 00:20:14.877 --> 00:20:19.167 certain name in the space, but if I'm just mentioning something like that, yeah, 00:20:19.167 --> 00:20:21.587 and still it won't be adopted, right? 00:20:22.067 --> 00:20:24.847 , I'm not, , in the hierarchy of a company, to make such 00:20:24.887 --> 00:20:26.227 decisions on my own or whatever. 00:20:26.497 --> 00:20:27.857 That's, , that's not going to work. 00:20:29.703 --> 00:20:31.993 CJ: Yeah, I want to follow up a little bit on this too. 00:20:31.993 --> 00:20:37.967 . Because, , I think , there's , a really good relationship here between A lot of 00:20:37.967 --> 00:20:42.607 the things that you do in the service now ecosystem and what enabled you to 00:20:42.607 --> 00:20:45.207 actually get through this in a week. 00:20:45.237 --> 00:20:49.367 , and I'll and 1 of the reasons that you're such, an amazing service now MVP. 00:20:49.367 --> 00:20:49.657 Right? 00:20:49.657 --> 00:20:54.567 And so a couple of weeks ago, you made a post on linked in, celebrating. 00:20:54.717 --> 00:20:58.057 . And I say kind of celebrating, . Cause you did it in such an understated 00:20:58.077 --> 00:20:59.887 way for this accomplishment. 00:21:00.087 --> 00:21:00.337 Right. 00:21:00.347 --> 00:21:03.637 And, , but you made a post on LinkedIn talking to celebrating, , , that 00:21:03.637 --> 00:21:07.747 your, combined service now content had just reached the 1. 00:21:07.827 --> 00:21:11.427 25 million view plateau, right? 00:21:11.427 --> 00:21:13.864 That's like over a million. 00:21:14.074 --> 00:21:14.724 , I can't even. 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.539 Put the data, I get, you know, it's hard to even put it in the words, right? 00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:19.689 You're combined service. 00:21:19.699 --> 00:21:21.379 Now content, . Has reached over 1. 00:21:21.549 --> 00:21:24.439 25 million views. 00:21:24.639 --> 00:21:26.509 And when I, is that right? 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:27.889 First, congratulations on that. 00:21:27.889 --> 00:21:28.789 That's just amazing. 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:29.159 Right. 00:21:30.914 --> 00:21:32.914 duke: In another 30 years, we might reach 00:21:33.289 --> 00:21:33.739 CJ: Right. 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:38.879 Like CJ and the Duke in 50 years might be at, at the 0. 00:21:38.919 --> 00:21:39.679 25. 00:21:39.879 --> 00:21:40.109 Right. 00:21:40.564 --> 00:21:41.984 duke: Creepers. 00:21:42.904 --> 00:21:43.294 mark: No worries. 00:21:43.324 --> 00:21:45.764 I'll contribute to that because I watch. 00:21:45.989 --> 00:21:46.999 Every episode. 00:21:46.999 --> 00:21:50.269 So, uh, yeah, so I'll, keep contributing to that. 00:21:51.454 --> 00:21:52.334 CJ: Appreciate that. 00:21:52.394 --> 00:21:55.584 . But when you dive into it, , because then you link to a, , to your service 00:21:55.584 --> 00:22:00.374 now, a community page, which has like the entirety of your catalog. 00:22:00.624 --> 00:22:04.724 . And, , and so in that catalog, I mean, you've got over 325 articles, 00:22:04.724 --> 00:22:07.274 blogs, videos, podcasts, et cetera. 00:22:07.504 --> 00:22:08.134 And. 00:22:09.094 --> 00:22:12.204 , when I looked through that, they, first of all, , your reference, , for me, right? 00:22:12.204 --> 00:22:15.934 Like I, , I have your content on bookmark and whenever I, , need 00:22:15.964 --> 00:22:19.024 something and I can't quite figure out, I go and check your library to 00:22:19.024 --> 00:22:20.324 see if you've already written about it. 00:22:20.514 --> 00:22:20.814 Right. 00:22:21.694 --> 00:22:22.534 duke: Yeah, crazy. 00:22:22.709 --> 00:22:39.224 Um, 00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:43.589 CJ: your previous body of work and effort and talk about how, you 00:22:43.589 --> 00:22:46.719 mentioned insta scan and the earlier in this conversation, you mentioned 00:22:46.729 --> 00:22:48.149 ATF earlier in this conversation. 00:22:48.149 --> 00:22:51.329 These are things that you've written about, , extensively that 00:22:51.329 --> 00:22:52.589 you share with the community. 00:22:52.939 --> 00:22:56.819 And, , and all of that stuff forms, like the underpinnings of being able to 00:22:56.929 --> 00:22:58.759 , execute on something like this in a week. 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:03.009 , so I just want to talk about a little bit about what drives you to create 00:23:03.459 --> 00:23:07.759 content to this level, man, you are a machine and it's good content. 00:23:08.892 --> 00:23:09.142 mark: yeah. 00:23:09.142 --> 00:23:09.532 Thanks. 00:23:09.632 --> 00:23:10.762 , yeah, what drives me? 00:23:11.532 --> 00:23:15.492 , It's just also a lot of fun to create content and, , , and see the feedback 00:23:15.492 --> 00:23:21.833 or also like, . Now, what, you're just saying, that's already a good motivation, 00:23:22.009 --> 00:23:26.799 , and , to keep on going, , but it's also, I just started creating content, 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.969 , because of the surf now ecosystem. 00:23:28.989 --> 00:23:33.469 And because yeah, when I started, I also started from the bottom and I 00:23:33.469 --> 00:23:36.649 was just searching and, , Oh, we've got the search on community and, Oh, 00:23:36.649 --> 00:23:38.709 we had Ricky and all those YouTube. 00:23:38.774 --> 00:23:43.921 Things and Oh, , the YouTube videos from, , from the Duke and, , Oh, awesome. 00:23:43.921 --> 00:23:47.761 And yeah, why not contribute also myself and let's see if I can do that. 00:23:48.021 --> 00:23:52.051 But eventually it was also for me back then I was still working 00:23:52.051 --> 00:23:53.891 at the consultancy company now. 00:23:54.236 --> 00:23:59.276 I'm doing this freelance, but back then it was also, , you had this 00:23:59.456 --> 00:24:03.706 mandatory personal development plan and the company decides what you're 00:24:03.706 --> 00:24:06.076 doing on soft skills, hard skills. 00:24:06.546 --> 00:24:10.466 So I was also thinking like, Hey, I'm creating this content and actually 00:24:10.466 --> 00:24:12.206 I'm working already on my skills. 00:24:12.446 --> 00:24:17.456 And I'm taking ownership on my own journey now, , because 00:24:17.456 --> 00:24:19.226 I have to dive into subjects. 00:24:19.226 --> 00:24:21.016 I need to learn more about it. 00:24:21.066 --> 00:24:24.826 , so my technical level is evolving or in different areas. 00:24:25.136 --> 00:24:26.066 And that's also fun. 00:24:26.086 --> 00:24:30.686 So I don't have that mandatory personal development plan anymore. 00:24:31.026 --> 00:24:32.766 I'm doing it myself. 00:24:32.806 --> 00:24:34.716 I'm taking ownership and I'm doing it. 00:24:35.161 --> 00:24:39.501 Yeah, with fun, , but not your hard skills, also the soft skills, because, 00:24:40.371 --> 00:24:42.191 English is not my native language. 00:24:42.201 --> 00:24:43.961 Everything I do is in English. 00:24:44.351 --> 00:24:46.551 How do I bring a message across? 00:24:46.998 --> 00:24:51.508 obviously I do a lot of, , in writing now, but maybe eventually I will just, , switch 00:24:51.518 --> 00:24:55.238 to, podcast, who knows, uh, or to videos. 00:24:55.238 --> 00:24:57.428 And then also you're working on, on those skills. 00:24:57.438 --> 00:24:59.598 And also then it goes more about. 00:25:00.378 --> 00:25:02.858 Your presentation and et cetera. 00:25:02.978 --> 00:25:07.221 So , it's way more and it's so much fun also because you're taking ownership and 00:25:07.411 --> 00:25:09.001 you're controlling , where you're going. 00:25:09.531 --> 00:25:12.981 , but eventually it's also just all , the replies and the feedback. 00:25:12.991 --> 00:25:14.381 It's, , it's just a lot of fun. 00:25:14.771 --> 00:25:18.061 , and yeah, and we are possible to call it a collaborate with, , with 00:25:18.071 --> 00:25:21.861 others, , not only MVPs, but, also with the MVPs, , collaborating. 00:25:22.026 --> 00:25:25.946 That's just a lot of fun and, , just a lot of motivation 00:25:25.946 --> 00:25:27.736 at that also just keeps you going. 00:25:28.376 --> 00:25:32.936 So, , yeah, that's just the main reason that, , yeah, so yeah. 00:25:33.066 --> 00:25:34.886 CJ: that, that's awesome. 00:25:34.886 --> 00:25:37.096 I love that, take ownership of your own journey. 00:25:37.223 --> 00:25:40.073 That should be almost be the title of this, episode, cause I could just see 00:25:40.073 --> 00:25:43.273 how it applies in so many different ways, . From what we were just talking 00:25:43.343 --> 00:25:44.933 to, but , from also , how do you get. 00:25:45.153 --> 00:25:49.143 From zero to eight days, , do an upgrade in a huge financial, , company 00:25:49.143 --> 00:25:50.553 , and zero to eight days, right? 00:25:50.553 --> 00:25:52.093 Like you got to take ownership of that journey. 00:25:52.283 --> 00:25:52.493 Right. 00:25:52.493 --> 00:25:55.723 And, and then, in part, like that eight days started long ago 00:25:55.723 --> 00:25:58.763 when you implemented Insta scan, when you implemented ATF, right? 00:25:58.763 --> 00:26:01.673 Like when you made those, , when you exercise those soft skills and made 00:26:01.673 --> 00:26:03.393 those relationships internally, right. 00:26:03.603 --> 00:26:05.763 And understood like how the business works and understood. 00:26:05.848 --> 00:26:08.608 The, who actually had, work that they could put off. 00:26:08.658 --> 00:26:10.818 , and, , who was sandbagging a little bit in terms of having 00:26:10.818 --> 00:26:12.908 availability to do testing, right? 00:26:12.908 --> 00:26:15.538 Like all of those things came into play here. 00:26:15.548 --> 00:26:18.607 And all of that to me, can be summed up and to say, take 00:26:18.617 --> 00:26:20.837 ownership of your own journey, right? 00:26:20.847 --> 00:26:23.477 If you want to get success in a service now ecosystem. 00:26:23.477 --> 00:26:25.547 So man, kudos to you on that. 00:26:25.547 --> 00:26:26.737 And I love that. 00:26:26.747 --> 00:26:28.357 And that we're going to do Duke. 00:26:28.367 --> 00:26:29.207 That's the title. 00:26:31.847 --> 00:26:34.317 And yeah, I'll give you that one mark for your charge. 00:26:35.337 --> 00:26:38.247 , duke: Mark, if you don't mind speaking of owning your own journey here, 00:26:38.257 --> 00:26:41.187 cause I'm trying to get some, taking some notes for a customer of mine 00:26:41.187 --> 00:26:44.047 who wants to do everything better in service now, including upgrades. 00:26:45.011 --> 00:26:48.551 Tell us about why skip record rules are so awesome 00:26:49.851 --> 00:26:51.541 mark: Oh, why are they awesome? 00:26:51.621 --> 00:26:52.691 duke: Or at least handy. 00:26:52.691 --> 00:26:56.856 Yep. 00:26:56.941 --> 00:26:57.401 mark: upgrades. 00:26:57.411 --> 00:27:00.351 Some customers will have a hundred skipped updates. 00:27:00.361 --> 00:27:02.921 Some will have 500, , every release. 00:27:03.271 --> 00:27:05.921 And actually it's not only during releases. 00:27:05.921 --> 00:27:08.891 You also have skipped records during batches and hot fixes. 00:27:09.371 --> 00:27:11.191 , you also should handle those. 00:27:11.651 --> 00:27:12.951 I do see that's. 00:27:13.301 --> 00:27:15.511 Being ignored at a lot of companies. 00:27:16.051 --> 00:27:19.991 , but especially with upgrades, you can have a lot of skips, skip records, , skip 00:27:20.031 --> 00:27:23.051 records themselves do take them seriously. 00:27:23.541 --> 00:27:28.151 , because some are high priority, some maybe of lower priority, 00:27:28.211 --> 00:27:30.211 but actually do pick them up. 00:27:30.311 --> 00:27:32.451 , maybe I should immediately give an example. 00:27:32.461 --> 00:27:36.771 You can have a priority five, which is a form layout form layout on service 00:27:36.771 --> 00:27:41.481 catalog because serves now added some new fields, some new check boxes. 00:27:41.886 --> 00:27:46.586 But if you are not taking that over, or if you are not merging that. 00:27:46.807 --> 00:27:48.647 you are missing out on that new functionality. 00:27:48.974 --> 00:27:51.534 , or it will not land on the form layout. 00:27:51.674 --> 00:27:57.404 So most developers won't dive that extensively into the release notes. 00:27:57.664 --> 00:27:59.854 So they won't know of that no new functionality. 00:27:59.954 --> 00:28:03.924 They won't know that you can do things without skipping, , with, 00:28:03.964 --> 00:28:05.304 , with less technical depth. 00:28:05.354 --> 00:28:07.624 , you can do it really quick, more quickly. 00:28:08.014 --> 00:28:11.714 So you really have to Take those skipped records seriously. 00:28:11.714 --> 00:28:16.824 And also those priority fives, but where does skipped record rules come in? 00:28:17.514 --> 00:28:21.724 , a good chunk of the skipped records will be handled every release in the 00:28:21.724 --> 00:28:27.934 same way, for example, because it's, , notifications, which you on purpose 00:28:27.934 --> 00:28:32.751 deactivated, you're not going to activate them, , during the upgrade or merging or 00:28:32.751 --> 00:28:33.941 whatever, no, you did that on purpose. 00:28:34.571 --> 00:28:39.718 or we have a ton of skipped errors, which you actually cannot handle. 00:28:40.088 --> 00:28:43.948 That's also literally in the service now docs and that you should retain them. 00:28:44.141 --> 00:28:50.201 , and several system properties, which you absolutely don't want to refer it or 00:28:50.201 --> 00:28:55.441 merge, you just always want to keep well for all those situations, you can make. 00:28:57.101 --> 00:29:01.801 So that those skipped records are automatically being handled for you. 00:29:02.431 --> 00:29:07.047 And especially if you have two or three hundred skipped records, then half of it 00:29:07.068 --> 00:29:09.998 can just automatically be handled for you. 00:29:10.284 --> 00:29:12.014 , so that's a huge saver. 00:29:12.261 --> 00:29:14.511 and you don't have to go through it manually anymore. 00:29:14.531 --> 00:29:19.791 So it's less of the repetitive, , Not so attractive work, , less 00:29:20.001 --> 00:29:21.821 chance of making mistakes in that. 00:29:22.281 --> 00:29:23.531 And so that already helps. 00:29:24.131 --> 00:29:28.291 , so that's one of the parts of skip record tools that you can handle those skip 00:29:28.336 --> 00:29:32.586 duke: is it kind of like just define your reaction to that skipped update once and 00:29:32.586 --> 00:29:34.846 then forever after it's that posture? 00:29:35.326 --> 00:29:36.056 mark: yeah, indeed. 00:29:36.086 --> 00:29:36.436 Indeed. 00:29:36.616 --> 00:29:38.146 You do that once and then 00:29:38.186 --> 00:29:38.526 duke: before. 00:29:38.526 --> 00:29:39.481 I 00:29:39.526 --> 00:29:40.976 mark: No, no, no, 00:29:41.326 --> 00:29:41.956 duke: but it's just like. 00:29:42.096 --> 00:29:43.206 mark: no, no. 00:29:43.206 --> 00:29:46.366 Yeah, well, with Vancouver it got introduced, so 00:29:46.496 --> 00:29:47.736 that's actually pretty nice. 00:29:48.156 --> 00:29:52.626 , it will be automatically applied, so also when there's a Patch or a 00:29:52.626 --> 00:29:55.076 hotfix or with the next upgrade. 00:29:55.076 --> 00:30:00.616 So, , Xanadu or Yokohama, , so then it will just automatically , be applied. 00:30:00.906 --> 00:30:05.476 There's also another table which keeps which records have been 00:30:05.476 --> 00:30:07.776 applied, , which skip the record rules, , have been applied. 00:30:08.156 --> 00:30:09.336 So it's also pretty nice. 00:30:09.646 --> 00:30:12.066 , but there's more to skip the record rules because you can 00:30:12.076 --> 00:30:15.116 also, , for example, at tax. 00:30:15.451 --> 00:30:16.811 To skip the record tools. 00:30:16.851 --> 00:30:20.631 For example, the customer I was talking about now, yeah. 00:30:20.661 --> 00:30:22.121 Eight different serves now team. 00:30:22.121 --> 00:30:26.911 So actually all the skip records are divided over the different teams, but 00:30:26.911 --> 00:30:31.811 based on , some conditions, you can actually give those skip records a tag. 00:30:32.961 --> 00:30:35.781 So one team will already have automatically. 00:30:36.011 --> 00:30:37.081 Then skipped records. 00:30:37.391 --> 00:30:37.721 Rule. 00:30:38.021 --> 00:30:39.701 , skip the records on their team. 00:30:40.111 --> 00:30:43.421 And another team will already automatically have 60 skipped 00:30:43.461 --> 00:30:45.071 records, , on their team. 00:30:45.581 --> 00:30:48.211 , so also with that, , it can help. 00:30:48.541 --> 00:30:49.906 So that's actually a pretty good. 00:30:50.056 --> 00:30:50.226 Yeah. 00:30:50.226 --> 00:30:53.466 Nice enhancement , from the Vancouver release. 00:30:53.566 --> 00:30:53.876 Yeah. 00:30:54.186 --> 00:30:57.606 , and actually you can start really basic with it, right? 00:30:57.676 --> 00:31:01.536 Just use a condition, just a condition builder, click, click, click, and, , and 00:31:01.546 --> 00:31:06.596 you're done, but you can make it more complicated by adding a script include 00:31:06.606 --> 00:31:08.886 in to the condition, for example. 00:31:09.196 --> 00:31:12.896 So you can do it, no code, but you can do it also a bit more. 00:31:12.946 --> 00:31:15.196 , it's a good, good addition. 00:31:15.566 --> 00:31:16.146 Definitely. 00:31:17.341 --> 00:31:19.881 duke: Wow, sounds like a good spot to leave it, huh, Corey? 00:31:20.746 --> 00:31:23.596 CJ: yeah, man, this has been an amazing episode, Mark. 00:31:23.596 --> 00:31:25.426 Again, take ownership of your own journey. 00:31:25.476 --> 00:31:29.316 And leaving us on that nugget about the skip record I think is just right. 00:31:29.316 --> 00:31:32.996 A, The sort of thing that you are known for in this ecosystem, right. 00:31:32.996 --> 00:31:36.366 It's just, , dropping those jewels on folks that, , in parts of , the 00:31:36.366 --> 00:31:40.506 instance and the, , on the platform that, people aren't really looking right. 00:31:40.506 --> 00:31:41.776 And , they aren't really hanging out. 00:31:41.796 --> 00:31:42.896 So I, I love it. 00:31:43.186 --> 00:31:48.156 And I look, man, , this has been , a great call, especially considering, this 00:31:48.156 --> 00:31:50.206 was, a bit last minute on top of it. 00:31:50.206 --> 00:31:50.526 Right. 00:31:50.986 --> 00:31:51.226 mark: Yeah. 00:31:51.226 --> 00:31:55.836 Yeah. 00:31:55.836 --> 00:32:00.446 Yeah. 00:32:00.466 --> 00:32:03.656 duke: on a wall somewhere watching people pass by and just winging 00:32:03.656 --> 00:32:05.296 a big fist sized jewel at him. 00:32:07.031 --> 00:32:08.861 Ah, mother fu Oh! 00:32:09.681 --> 00:32:10.361 What was that? 00:32:13.251 --> 00:32:14.061 Oh, it's an emerald. 00:32:14.061 --> 00:32:14.851 Okay, I'll take that. 00:32:17.456 --> 00:32:20.536 CJ: No, I mean, I think this is going to, I think our, I think, , the 00:32:20.536 --> 00:32:21.546 audience is going to love this. 00:32:21.546 --> 00:32:25.096 And, before we started recording, , I was telling, you know, so yes to everything. 00:32:25.096 --> 00:32:26.996 . And then, so , Mark is living up to it. 00:32:26.996 --> 00:32:29.306 . We reached out and he's like, yes, and here we are. 00:32:29.306 --> 00:32:29.756 And now we've 00:32:29.916 --> 00:32:30.446 mark: Yeah, of course. 00:32:30.506 --> 00:32:30.926 CJ: an episode. 00:32:30.926 --> 00:32:31.056 Yeah. 00:32:31.056 --> 00:32:32.136 So it's 00:32:32.776 --> 00:32:38.696 mark: Yeah, I do want to, I do want to mention I did play a role in this 00:32:38.706 --> 00:32:43.266 whole upgrade and also with the initial idea of the upgrade in a week, but I 00:32:43.276 --> 00:32:46.006 didn't have to execute all of it myself. 00:32:46.046 --> 00:32:49.586 Actually, I only did limited things myself during the week. 00:32:50.146 --> 00:32:53.546 , so there were, yeah, there was just an involvement of a lot of people. 00:32:53.546 --> 00:32:57.866 And especially from, , from , two people, one, from the support, , site and one, 00:32:57.906 --> 00:33:00.066 from the owning the search now platform. 00:33:00.066 --> 00:33:03.236 And those were also really key, , in this , , whole journey. 00:33:03.326 --> 00:33:04.746 I do want to, , mention that. 00:33:04.746 --> 00:33:06.216 So it's not like that. 00:33:06.216 --> 00:33:09.796 I'm just doing some magic and everything is happening. 00:33:09.796 --> 00:33:13.426 It's not that, , it's not all credits to me or something, but, uh, 00:33:13.611 --> 00:33:14.961 duke: I guess we're gonna have to take back every good 00:33:14.961 --> 00:33:15.911 thing we said about you, Mark. 00:33:16.051 --> 00:33:16.331 Oh, shoot. 00:33:19.916 --> 00:33:21.026 CJ: Love the modesty man. 00:33:21.026 --> 00:33:21.746 Love the modesty 00:33:21.901 --> 00:33:23.291 duke: we're at 40 minutes of record. 00:33:23.291 --> 00:33:24.451 We gotta cut it off, guys. 00:33:25.021 --> 00:33:26.341 Alright, thanks so much, Mark. 00:33:26.346 --> 00:33:27.096 CJ: Thanks Mark. 00:33:27.261 --> 00:33:27.601 duke: Still 00:33:27.686 --> 00:33:28.826 mark: worries, a lot of fun.