1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,320 Five, 2 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:02,299 four, 3 00:00:02,299 --> 00:00:03,439 three, 4 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:04,250 two, 5 00:00:04,250 --> 00:00:05,000 one... 6 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,230 Star Cloud One, 7 00:00:06,230 --> 00:00:07,560 upgrading confirmed. 8 00:00:16,250 --> 00:00:22,250 Philip is an ambitious founder working on putting data centers in space over at StarCloud, 9 00:00:22,250 --> 00:00:27,380 and we first met in the forest at a Y Combinator founder retreat. 10 00:00:27,380 --> 00:00:27,960 And since then, 11 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,130 the StarCloud team has launched their first satellite in space, 12 00:00:31,130 --> 00:00:32,010 StarCloud One, 13 00:00:32,009 --> 00:00:37,649 which I had the pleasure of seeing with my own eyes a few weeks back at Cape Canaveral. 14 00:00:37,649 --> 00:00:38,230 And boy, 15 00:00:38,230 --> 00:00:40,469 what an experience that was! 16 00:00:40,469 --> 00:00:42,439 I can still hear the roar of the rocket, 17 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:44,939 feel the vibrations when I close my eyes. 18 00:00:44,939 --> 00:00:45,649 Philip, 19 00:00:45,649 --> 00:00:48,170 it is a pleasure to have you on. 20 00:00:48,170 --> 00:00:50,369 How's StarCloud One doing now? 21 00:00:50,369 --> 00:00:52,229 Thanks so much for having me on. 22 00:00:52,229 --> 00:00:55,450 That was a very poetic rendition of how that experience, 23 00:00:55,450 --> 00:00:56,850 so I appreciate that. 24 00:00:56,850 --> 00:00:58,549 StarCloud One is doing well. 25 00:00:58,549 --> 00:00:58,909 Yeah, 26 00:00:58,909 --> 00:01:02,460 we will make some announcements over the coming weeks. 27 00:01:02,460 --> 00:01:03,149 But yeah, 28 00:01:03,149 --> 00:01:05,409 StarCloud One is doing great. 29 00:01:05,409 --> 00:01:10,450 Has it finished the commissioning process or still ongoing? 30 00:01:11,099 --> 00:01:14,289 Still semi-ongoing. 31 00:01:14,289 --> 00:01:14,549 Yeah, 32 00:01:14,549 --> 00:01:15,439 still semi-ongoing. 33 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:16,770 Nothing that makes you nervous? 34 00:01:16,770 --> 00:01:17,790 Nothing so far. 35 00:01:17,789 --> 00:01:18,369 Okay. 36 00:01:18,370 --> 00:01:19,570 That's good to hear. 37 00:01:19,659 --> 00:01:22,170 And StarCloud Two is right around the corner, 38 00:01:22,170 --> 00:01:23,019 is that right? 39 00:01:23,019 --> 00:01:23,269 Yes, 40 00:01:23,269 --> 00:01:25,290 October next year for StarCloud Two. 41 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:25,939 So exciting. 42 00:01:25,939 --> 00:01:27,060 Any chance it might be earlier? 43 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:28,390 I know these kind of launch windows, 44 00:01:28,390 --> 00:01:29,340 they fluctuate, 45 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:29,689 right? 46 00:01:29,689 --> 00:01:31,090 It cannot be earlier. 47 00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:32,290 It could be later. 48 00:01:32,290 --> 00:01:33,290 Could be later. 49 00:01:33,290 --> 00:01:33,670 I mean, 50 00:01:33,670 --> 00:01:34,390 if it's later, 51 00:01:34,390 --> 00:01:35,510 it won't be our fault. 52 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:36,010 But yeah, 53 00:01:36,010 --> 00:01:37,370 sometimes I get pumped. 54 00:01:37,370 --> 00:01:38,019 All right. 55 00:01:38,019 --> 00:01:38,390 Well, 56 00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:40,609 looking forward to joining for that one as well. 57 00:01:40,609 --> 00:01:43,469 So what made you decide to start StarCloud? 58 00:01:43,469 --> 00:01:45,090 What inspired you to do that? 59 00:01:45,090 --> 00:01:48,459 I know you were doing something very different before. 60 00:01:48,459 --> 00:01:52,090 Where did the impetus for StarCloud come from? 61 00:01:52,090 --> 00:01:52,480 Yeah, 62 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:52,989 I mean, 63 00:01:52,989 --> 00:01:58,650 I've been interested in space for as long as I can remember as a kid as well. 64 00:01:58,650 --> 00:02:00,790 And then I ended up working with McKinsey in the Middle East, 65 00:02:00,790 --> 00:02:04,790 working with the space agencies of different governments. 66 00:02:04,790 --> 00:02:09,849 And that's how I started to realize that the launch cost was coming down very rapidly. 67 00:02:09,849 --> 00:02:11,810 And so in early 2023, 68 00:02:11,810 --> 00:02:13,900 I kind of went down to Starbase, 69 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:14,420 Texas, 70 00:02:14,420 --> 00:02:16,950 where they're building a Starship rocket. 71 00:02:16,949 --> 00:02:18,909 Kind of a random trip, 72 00:02:18,909 --> 00:02:22,610 like just thought it would be a fun weekend. 73 00:02:22,610 --> 00:02:29,410 And kind of made me realize the launch cost with Starship could come down by 10 or 100x over the next few years. 74 00:02:29,409 --> 00:02:30,780 And that is a massive, 75 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:32,270 massive production. 76 00:02:32,270 --> 00:02:36,449 And what that does is enable lots of different use cases that were not possible before. 77 00:02:36,449 --> 00:02:38,810 One of them that we first started looking at was space-based solar, 78 00:02:38,810 --> 00:02:43,780 which is where you have these huge solar panels in space and you beam the power down. 79 00:02:43,780 --> 00:02:47,650 But the problem with that is you lose most of the power transmitting it down. 80 00:02:47,650 --> 00:02:49,969 But with low launch costs, 81 00:02:49,969 --> 00:02:55,949 you now have the ability to do things like moving data centers to space where you can consume that energy in space. 82 00:02:55,949 --> 00:03:02,680 And so we realized that we could potentially have 10x lower energy costs than on Earth by running data centers in space, 83 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,610 including the launch cost than by running them on Earth. 84 00:03:06,610 --> 00:03:10,090 So it sounds like you may have already had the team before you'd selected the idea. 85 00:03:10,090 --> 00:03:11,610 Is that right? 86 00:03:11,610 --> 00:03:12,259 Yeah, 87 00:03:12,259 --> 00:03:21,689 we had the team when the initial days of the team was working on this space-based solar idea. 88 00:03:21,689 --> 00:03:25,227 And then we switched quite quickly into working on moving 89 00:03:25,227 --> 00:03:28,398 data centers to space to consume the energy next to 90 00:03:28,398 --> 00:03:31,569 the solar panels rather than beaming the power down. 91 00:03:32,210 --> 00:03:32,590 Interesting. 92 00:03:32,590 --> 00:03:37,629 Were there any other ways that you guys considered moving power from space to Earth? 93 00:03:37,629 --> 00:03:40,770 I know it's difficult to recover things from space, 94 00:03:40,770 --> 00:03:45,409 but batteries or any other method that you guys looked at aside from data? 95 00:03:45,409 --> 00:03:48,909 We looked at everything that's currently feasible. 96 00:03:48,909 --> 00:03:52,300 Things like charging batteries and re-entering them. 97 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:57,370 But all of that stuff requires a much lower re-entry cost than we currently have. 98 00:03:57,370 --> 00:03:58,020 And so, 99 00:03:58,020 --> 00:03:58,150 yeah, 100 00:03:58,150 --> 00:04:00,009 it just didn't really make sense. 101 00:04:00,009 --> 00:04:05,949 Do you think there's anything like that coming down the pipe in terms of any other competitors in space? 102 00:04:05,949 --> 00:04:06,620 Not really, 103 00:04:06,620 --> 00:04:06,969 no. 104 00:04:06,969 --> 00:04:08,389 And the reason is, 105 00:04:08,389 --> 00:04:10,370 you have to ask yourself, 106 00:04:10,370 --> 00:04:12,240 why would you do that? 107 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,139 So to know, 108 00:04:15,139 --> 00:04:17,490 why would you want new energy projects on Earth? 109 00:04:17,490 --> 00:04:18,389 And to answer that question, 110 00:04:18,389 --> 00:04:22,029 you just have to look at what new energy projects on Earth are being built for. 111 00:04:22,029 --> 00:04:25,250 And almost all of them are being built to power data centers right now. 112 00:04:25,250 --> 00:04:29,470 Almost all new energy projects on Earth are being built to power data centers. 113 00:04:29,470 --> 00:04:31,129 And so if that's the case, 114 00:04:31,129 --> 00:04:32,860 even if you can charge a battery, 115 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:37,370 you're still going to lose half of the energy in charging and dissipating the power from the battery. 116 00:04:37,370 --> 00:04:40,290 So why not? 117 00:04:40,290 --> 00:04:42,100 If you're going to have to send those batteries up and down, 118 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,370 why not send the data center up and then just consume 100% of the power? 119 00:04:45,370 --> 00:04:47,649 So it doesn't make sense at the moment. 120 00:04:47,649 --> 00:04:47,910 Yeah, 121 00:04:47,910 --> 00:04:48,670 fair enough. 122 00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:49,079 Fair enough. 123 00:04:49,079 --> 00:04:51,009 It's an idea that's been toyed with for a while. 124 00:04:51,009 --> 00:04:52,290 I'm curious, 125 00:04:52,290 --> 00:04:53,629 in preparing for this interview, 126 00:04:53,629 --> 00:04:56,829 I watched a lot of the different interviews that you've done in the past. 127 00:04:56,829 --> 00:04:59,899 And it seems that PR is a big role, 128 00:04:59,899 --> 00:05:04,449 a big part of your founder responsibilities. 129 00:05:04,449 --> 00:05:08,769 What else do you have that's really important in terms of being the CEO? 130 00:05:08,769 --> 00:05:12,129 How technical is your job in making the startup run? 131 00:05:12,129 --> 00:05:17,850 And how much of it is really just all the other peripheral things around that? 132 00:05:17,850 --> 00:05:18,500 Yeah. 133 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:24,889 So being vocal on social media is certainly one thing that I have decided to prioritize. 134 00:05:24,889 --> 00:05:25,910 One of the reasons being that, 135 00:05:25,910 --> 00:05:26,560 until quite recently, 136 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,750 people thought we were completely insane. 137 00:05:28,750 --> 00:05:35,629 And so it was really like an exercise in changing public opinion. 138 00:05:35,629 --> 00:05:37,069 And I don't want to take entire credit for it, 139 00:05:37,069 --> 00:05:38,259 but we certainly play a big role, 140 00:05:38,259 --> 00:05:38,649 I think, 141 00:05:38,649 --> 00:05:40,250 in changing the public opinion. 142 00:05:40,250 --> 00:05:45,370 And that was in part due to being very vocal in social media. 143 00:05:45,370 --> 00:05:48,449 And then everything else is just like normal CEO stuff, 144 00:05:48,449 --> 00:05:50,009 like hiring and strategy, 145 00:05:50,009 --> 00:05:53,569 making the company run from a back office admin perspective. 146 00:05:53,569 --> 00:05:57,300 And then all of the engineering work is done by my two co-founders, 147 00:05:57,300 --> 00:05:58,529 Ezra and Addy. 148 00:05:58,529 --> 00:05:59,040 So yeah, 149 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,529 I'm like commercial customers and fundraising, 150 00:06:02,529 --> 00:06:04,689 things like that. 151 00:06:04,689 --> 00:06:06,490 And PR. 152 00:06:06,490 --> 00:06:07,959 Also things like legal, 153 00:06:07,959 --> 00:06:08,240 HR, 154 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:08,970 finance. 155 00:06:08,970 --> 00:06:10,870 And then my co-founders are solely, 156 00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:14,089 mainly on the engineering side of things. 157 00:06:14,089 --> 00:06:14,490 Yeah. 158 00:06:14,490 --> 00:06:15,170 As founders, 159 00:06:15,170 --> 00:06:16,980 we tend to be the catch-all folks. 160 00:06:16,980 --> 00:06:17,410 I mean, 161 00:06:17,410 --> 00:06:20,899 I know your two co-founders are super technically capable, 162 00:06:20,899 --> 00:06:24,129 and I loved hearing them talk over at Cape Canaveral, 163 00:06:24,129 --> 00:06:25,610 but how technical do you feel... 164 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:26,180 Oh yeah, 165 00:06:26,180 --> 00:06:28,209 there they are right behind you. 166 00:06:28,209 --> 00:06:29,300 Oh wait, 167 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:31,129 is that them? 168 00:06:31,129 --> 00:06:31,370 No, 169 00:06:31,370 --> 00:06:32,370 that's not them. 170 00:06:32,370 --> 00:06:33,019 Okay, 171 00:06:33,019 --> 00:06:33,370 okay. 172 00:06:33,370 --> 00:06:36,930 I actually have no idea who that is. 173 00:06:36,930 --> 00:06:37,579 Well, 174 00:06:37,579 --> 00:06:41,139 how technical do you have to be as the CEO? 175 00:06:41,139 --> 00:06:45,329 How deep in the product details do you have to be? 176 00:06:45,329 --> 00:06:45,610 I mean, 177 00:06:45,610 --> 00:06:47,379 you have to be pretty deep in the product detail. 178 00:06:47,379 --> 00:06:48,339 You have to be pretty... 179 00:06:48,339 --> 00:06:51,129 You have to understand the technicalities of it. 180 00:06:51,129 --> 00:06:54,300 So my undergrad and master's is applied math and theoretical physics. 181 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:57,129 Spent the first five years of my career on the engineering side. 182 00:06:57,129 --> 00:07:02,810 So that definitely helps in understanding if things are feasible from a physics perspective. 183 00:07:02,810 --> 00:07:06,310 It's true that I don't have a decade of satellite design experience, 184 00:07:06,310 --> 00:07:12,180 which is also extremely necessary for designing satellites. 185 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:17,449 And that's where Ezra and Addy come in. 186 00:07:17,449 --> 00:07:21,810 So what do you think are the learnings and advantages of being a second-time founder? 187 00:07:21,810 --> 00:07:24,069 This isn't your first rodeo. 188 00:07:24,069 --> 00:07:26,370 What's your specific edge? 189 00:07:26,370 --> 00:07:29,529 Yeah. 190 00:07:29,529 --> 00:07:31,889 I think you make a lot of mistakes in your first time. 191 00:07:31,889 --> 00:07:33,319 Do you know what, 192 00:07:33,319 --> 00:07:34,009 actually? 193 00:07:34,009 --> 00:07:36,170 I've been thinking about this recently. 194 00:07:36,170 --> 00:07:38,170 I'm not even sure that it's mistakes. 195 00:07:38,170 --> 00:07:42,759 I think it's just hesitancy when you're a first-time founder. 196 00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:46,449 Because different strategies can work different ways. 197 00:07:46,449 --> 00:07:47,060 For example, 198 00:07:47,060 --> 00:07:53,730 one thing that I think was a huge mistake in my first company was massively overhiring initially. 199 00:07:53,730 --> 00:07:56,110 There are companies which are successful doing that as well. 200 00:07:56,110 --> 00:07:57,769 So it's not like all that always fails. 201 00:07:57,769 --> 00:08:01,569 I think what it does is it makes you very opinionated about what you do and don't want. 202 00:08:01,569 --> 00:08:03,089 And in this company, 203 00:08:03,089 --> 00:08:05,540 I want to keep an extremely lean, 204 00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:11,750 extremely technical core team with zero non-engineers for as long as possible. 205 00:08:11,750 --> 00:08:11,860 Now, 206 00:08:11,860 --> 00:08:12,550 maybe that's a good strategy. 207 00:08:12,550 --> 00:08:13,339 Maybe it's not. 208 00:08:13,339 --> 00:08:15,670 But what is important is that I'm opinionated about it, 209 00:08:15,670 --> 00:08:16,889 and I move quickly, 210 00:08:16,889 --> 00:08:17,779 and I'm decisive. 211 00:08:17,779 --> 00:08:21,250 And that definitely helps a lot. 212 00:08:21,250 --> 00:08:26,569 You had something like 100 folks at the previous company and something like 10 at this one? 213 00:08:26,569 --> 00:08:27,569 Is that right? 214 00:08:27,569 --> 00:08:28,220 Yeah. 215 00:08:28,220 --> 00:08:30,529 150 at the peak and then 12 at this one. 216 00:08:30,529 --> 00:08:31,180 Okay. 217 00:08:31,180 --> 00:08:31,550 Well, 218 00:08:31,550 --> 00:08:32,410 there you go. 219 00:08:32,410 --> 00:08:33,420 So being decisive, 220 00:08:33,420 --> 00:08:35,140 knowing what you do and don't want. 221 00:08:35,139 --> 00:08:40,889 Anything else that really comes to mind in terms of a sharp contrast between the two? 222 00:08:40,889 --> 00:08:46,759 I think you definitely get better at things like fundraising over time. 223 00:08:46,759 --> 00:08:52,350 Things like don't raise out of a process and don't... 224 00:08:52,350 --> 00:09:02,690 Sort of fairly common sense things that you can't internalize until you've been through a few fundraisers definitely help. 225 00:09:02,690 --> 00:09:05,929 What else? 226 00:09:05,929 --> 00:09:09,519 Managing people I think is better the second time. 227 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:10,190 But again, 228 00:09:10,190 --> 00:09:11,740 managing people thing is, 229 00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:12,409 I think, 230 00:09:12,409 --> 00:09:16,850 more about being decisive and knowing what you do and don't want. 231 00:09:16,850 --> 00:09:18,909 I know you mentioned Hard Startups, 232 00:09:18,909 --> 00:09:20,299 the essay by Sam Altman, 233 00:09:20,299 --> 00:09:21,809 or the blog post rather. 234 00:09:21,809 --> 00:09:23,490 It's rather short. 235 00:09:23,490 --> 00:09:28,129 Is that a key inspiration for you to take such a big swing, 236 00:09:28,129 --> 00:09:29,210 a big bet? 237 00:09:29,210 --> 00:09:32,259 It was definitely one of them. 238 00:09:32,259 --> 00:09:36,220 Another one was the release of ChatWPT. 239 00:09:36,220 --> 00:09:39,259 I read this interesting quote the other day, 240 00:09:39,259 --> 00:09:40,009 and I think I reposted it. 241 00:09:40,009 --> 00:09:41,710 It was something along the lines of, 242 00:09:41,710 --> 00:09:48,789 "The biggest risk a startup can take now is not tackling an engineering problem that's too hard for them. 243 00:09:48,789 --> 00:09:50,659 It's tackling an engineering problem that's too easy. 244 00:09:50,659 --> 00:09:52,460 And the reason is if you do that, 245 00:09:52,460 --> 00:10:01,330 you're going to get totally run over by AI". That became very obvious to me in early 2023. 246 00:10:01,330 --> 00:10:03,129 If you are doing a B2B SaaS thing, 247 00:10:03,129 --> 00:10:12,330 it became obvious to me that that is a collision course with OpenAI. 248 00:10:12,330 --> 00:10:20,210 So what company would you be building now if it wasn't StarCloud to fall within a non-AI collision course? 249 00:10:20,210 --> 00:10:20,769 Yeah, 250 00:10:20,769 --> 00:10:21,649 I think like, 251 00:10:21,649 --> 00:10:22,460 physical, 252 00:10:22,460 --> 00:10:23,259 deep tech, 253 00:10:23,259 --> 00:10:24,070 robotics, 254 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:24,629 space, 255 00:10:24,629 --> 00:10:30,169 these are good areas because they're much harder to automate. 256 00:10:30,169 --> 00:10:30,820 Yeah. 257 00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:34,740 And who would you say your main competitors are at StarCloud today? 258 00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:37,129 Is there anybody that keeps you up at night? 259 00:10:37,129 --> 00:10:39,769 There's not many people on the startup side. 260 00:10:39,769 --> 00:10:41,700 There's a few on the startup side, 261 00:10:41,700 --> 00:10:44,230 but I wouldn't say we're... 262 00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:44,779 Yeah, 263 00:10:44,779 --> 00:10:53,100 we're working on slightly different things and I think we're moving very fast. 264 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:53,929 The other ones are... 265 00:10:53,929 --> 00:10:57,289 Can you hear this noise in the background or not? 266 00:10:57,289 --> 00:10:57,909 Yeah, 267 00:10:57,909 --> 00:10:58,090 yeah. 268 00:10:58,090 --> 00:10:59,289 I'll make a cut here. 269 00:10:59,289 --> 00:10:59,940 Okay, 270 00:10:59,940 --> 00:11:00,620 okay. 271 00:11:00,620 --> 00:11:01,690 It's fine. 272 00:11:01,690 --> 00:11:03,000 So the other ones, 273 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,570 I mean, 274 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:09,120 the hyperscalers that have space arms are XAI with SpaceX and AWS with Leo. 275 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,090 And so I think they seem like they're moving in this direction now. 276 00:11:14,090 --> 00:11:14,669 Yeah, 277 00:11:14,669 --> 00:11:21,850 I can't imagine the Blue Origin AWS aren't doing something to get in this space in a big way. 278 00:11:21,850 --> 00:11:22,500 Well, 279 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:24,210 they vocally have said they are. 280 00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:24,860 Yeah, 281 00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:25,230 yeah, 282 00:11:25,230 --> 00:11:25,820 yeah. 283 00:11:25,820 --> 00:11:30,529 So how do you view yourself in comparison to somebody like them? 284 00:11:30,529 --> 00:11:31,159 Yeah, 285 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:34,429 I think we have an extremely capable team. 286 00:11:34,429 --> 00:11:36,879 We're moving extremely fast. 287 00:11:36,879 --> 00:11:41,169 We'll just put our heads down and execute on what we're doing as fast as we can. 288 00:11:41,169 --> 00:11:41,320 Yeah, 289 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,669 there's going to be things for them as well. 290 00:11:42,669 --> 00:11:45,970 It's not like I don't think there'll be space for them too. 291 00:11:45,970 --> 00:11:46,440 Well, 292 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:51,679 I guess you don't seem as crazy when you're competing with the folks of them. 293 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,570 That gives you some validation, 294 00:11:53,570 --> 00:11:54,490 if you will. 295 00:11:54,490 --> 00:11:55,490 Yeah. 296 00:11:55,490 --> 00:12:00,259 I know that we just talked about the second time around learnings, 297 00:12:00,259 --> 00:12:05,450 but are there any learnings from the nearly two years in that you are already? 298 00:12:05,450 --> 00:12:07,590 Anything you'd do differently, 299 00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:11,490 like if you were starting StarCloud from scratch today? 300 00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:15,179 We were quite slow in... 301 00:12:15,179 --> 00:12:24,679 We used to articulate the story around providing edge and cloud services for other satellites much more. 302 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,690 Because that is the early stages of business. 303 00:12:26,690 --> 00:12:29,250 That is what we're going after the next two or three years. 304 00:12:29,250 --> 00:12:30,659 It turns out when you're pitching investors, 305 00:12:30,659 --> 00:12:32,350 they actually care much more about the long-term vision, 306 00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:34,580 which is building almost all data centers in space. 307 00:12:34,580 --> 00:12:36,450 And we're quite slow to make that switch. 308 00:12:36,450 --> 00:12:38,850 So I think that would probably be one thing I would do sooner. 309 00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:39,850 Yeah. 310 00:12:39,850 --> 00:12:41,950 It doesn't really change anything about the business, 311 00:12:41,950 --> 00:12:45,529 but in terms of just the way that we articulated the story. 312 00:12:45,529 --> 00:12:47,360 How would the pitch sound today, 313 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,690 like if you were starting from scratch? 314 00:12:49,690 --> 00:12:52,330 The pitch would sound exactly as it does today, 315 00:12:52,330 --> 00:12:55,710 which is that we are expecting that within 10 years, 316 00:12:55,710 --> 00:12:59,409 most new data centers will be being built in space for the energy. 317 00:12:59,409 --> 00:13:02,080 And so if you believe that to be true, 318 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,970 this is a multi-trillion dollar industry within 10 years. 319 00:13:05,970 --> 00:13:08,549 It's going from zero to multi-trillion in 10 years, 320 00:13:08,549 --> 00:13:14,090 which is definitely an industry that's worth being involved in. 321 00:13:14,090 --> 00:13:20,649 Will you tell founders out there considering doing something big in space that might be intimidated by the challenge? 322 00:13:20,649 --> 00:13:24,610 The most important thing is that you have the right team. 323 00:13:24,610 --> 00:13:25,629 Yeah. 324 00:13:25,629 --> 00:13:29,330 And how do you make that happen? 325 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:32,230 I mean, 326 00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:33,570 you just reach out to people, 327 00:13:33,570 --> 00:13:37,390 see if they're interested in what you're interested in. 328 00:13:37,389 --> 00:13:41,470 Did you cold inbound your two co-founders? 329 00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:42,810 One of them I knew, 330 00:13:42,809 --> 00:13:44,529 or we grew up in the same area, 331 00:13:44,529 --> 00:13:48,750 one of them we were kind of introduced to a friend. 332 00:13:48,750 --> 00:13:49,750 Okay. 333 00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:50,190 So, 334 00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:51,780 often people you already know, 335 00:13:51,779 --> 00:13:52,350 right? 336 00:13:52,350 --> 00:13:53,180 Should be. 337 00:13:53,179 --> 00:13:54,159 Cold inbound, 338 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:55,600 cold outbound works, 339 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,110 too. 340 00:13:56,110 --> 00:13:57,110 Yeah. 341 00:13:57,110 --> 00:14:00,289 I think you'd done something in space before in the consulting world, 342 00:14:00,289 --> 00:14:01,110 is that right? 343 00:14:01,110 --> 00:14:02,110 Yes. 344 00:14:02,110 --> 00:14:03,629 It was McKinsey in the Middle East. 345 00:14:03,629 --> 00:14:04,629 Yeah. 346 00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:05,049 So, 347 00:14:05,049 --> 00:14:07,309 how did that lead to your passion in space? 348 00:14:07,309 --> 00:14:09,989 Or did your passion in space precede that? 349 00:14:09,990 --> 00:14:12,100 Where did this passion originate from, 350 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:13,029 would you say? 351 00:14:13,029 --> 00:14:13,750 Yeah. 352 00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:16,919 I was passionate about space beforehand, 353 00:14:16,919 --> 00:14:21,069 and then that's kind of more the other way around. 354 00:14:21,070 --> 00:14:21,500 So, 355 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:23,539 that was what led me into the consulting thing. 356 00:14:23,539 --> 00:14:25,750 And then, 357 00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:26,990 yeah. 358 00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:29,049 I wouldn't say it was particularly, 359 00:14:29,049 --> 00:14:29,319 yeah, 360 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,210 it didn't play a massive role, 361 00:14:31,210 --> 00:14:32,950 but it was helpful, 362 00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:33,509 certainly. 363 00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:36,870 Was it like sci-fi books in your childhood that got you into space? 364 00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:37,669 Yeah? 365 00:14:37,669 --> 00:14:38,709 It was that. 366 00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:39,920 And it was also, 367 00:14:39,919 --> 00:14:40,439 yeah, 368 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,230 I wanted to be an astronaut as well. 369 00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:44,230 Still might. 370 00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:45,230 Still might. 371 00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:46,230 Yeah. 372 00:14:46,230 --> 00:14:48,549 Probably will at some point. 373 00:14:48,549 --> 00:14:56,870 Do you think that there is a world where StarCloud 1 starts launching its own rockets at some point? 374 00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:57,870 No. 375 00:14:57,870 --> 00:14:58,870 No? 376 00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:59,690 No chance? 377 00:14:59,690 --> 00:15:03,190 Really focused on being this utility layer in space? 378 00:15:03,190 --> 00:15:04,190 Yeah. 379 00:15:04,190 --> 00:15:06,490 It's a bit like saying, 380 00:15:06,490 --> 00:15:08,700 do you think... 381 00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:12,470 I don't think that's a good analogy. 382 00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:13,900 It's like saying, 383 00:15:13,899 --> 00:15:20,349 do you think AWS will start producing concrete for their buildings? 384 00:15:20,350 --> 00:15:22,129 There's no need. 385 00:15:22,129 --> 00:15:26,289 There's enough launch companies out there, 386 00:15:26,289 --> 00:15:27,230 right? 387 00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:27,840 Yeah. 388 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,590 There's enough people producing concrete. 389 00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:31,470 There's enough people doing launches. 390 00:15:31,470 --> 00:15:33,650 It's like a different discussion. 391 00:15:33,649 --> 00:15:39,589 Were there any sci-fi books that first inspired you that the audience might like to read themselves? 392 00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:43,230 Any good books out there that you might suggest? 393 00:15:43,230 --> 00:15:44,710 The Foundation series by Asimov. 394 00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:45,370 Oh, 395 00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:45,710 my. 396 00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:46,120 Yeah, 397 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:46,710 it was great. 398 00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:47,710 I loved that series. 399 00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:48,440 Yeah. 400 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,570 And then when I was in college, 401 00:15:50,569 --> 00:15:53,219 I got into Battlestar Galactica, 402 00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:54,430 the TV series. 403 00:15:54,430 --> 00:15:55,430 Okay. 404 00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:58,880 I haven't seen it. 405 00:15:58,879 --> 00:16:02,190 What's it about? 406 00:16:02,190 --> 00:16:04,380 It's about a space-faring, 407 00:16:04,379 --> 00:16:07,069 Earth-like civilization. 408 00:16:07,069 --> 00:16:08,750 They leave from Earth. 409 00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:13,669 It's a bit like Star Wars or Star Trek. 410 00:16:13,669 --> 00:16:16,029 Have you read The Three-Body Problem? 411 00:16:16,029 --> 00:16:20,599 The Three-Body Problem is one of the ones which everybody says to me like, 412 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:29,310 "You shouldn't try and send spacecraft out because you might find some civilization that could destroy us," which is like such total nonsense. 413 00:16:29,309 --> 00:16:30,039 Yeah. 414 00:16:30,039 --> 00:16:30,439 Yeah, 415 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,990 we've got to push the envelope. 416 00:16:32,990 --> 00:16:35,370 Risk it all to do something great, 417 00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:36,149 right? 418 00:16:36,149 --> 00:16:37,269 There's always going to be a risk. 419 00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:38,189 There's always going to be a trade-off. 420 00:16:38,190 --> 00:16:38,670 Yeah, 421 00:16:38,669 --> 00:16:39,720 but that isn't a risk. 422 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:40,129 I mean, 423 00:16:40,129 --> 00:16:40,889 we would see. 424 00:16:40,889 --> 00:16:45,750 It would not be difficult to find other life within the near-distance in our galaxy. 425 00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:47,870 It's pretty incredible that we haven't yet found any. 426 00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:48,870 Yeah. 427 00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:51,220 It's very paradoxical. 428 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:52,830 We should have already found some. 429 00:16:52,830 --> 00:16:53,860 If they're there, 430 00:16:53,860 --> 00:16:55,799 they should be everywhere, 431 00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:56,709 right? 432 00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:57,789 Yes. 433 00:16:57,789 --> 00:17:00,240 Or maybe there's something causing them all to go extinct. 434 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,509 Do you think that there's something to that, 435 00:17:02,509 --> 00:17:04,869 especially with the rise of AI? 436 00:17:04,869 --> 00:17:05,359 Yeah, 437 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:10,680 I think it's most likely that there's some Fermi grape filter in front of us, 438 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,750 and most likely that is some sort of self-destructive properties of AI. 439 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:17,079 Do you feel that's inevitable, 440 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:21,669 or do you think we have something that we can do there as a species? 441 00:17:21,670 --> 00:17:23,170 I think it's inevitable. 442 00:17:23,170 --> 00:17:24,310 Yeah. 443 00:17:24,309 --> 00:17:28,549 You think it's inevitable that we kill ourselves at one point? 444 00:17:28,549 --> 00:17:29,649 Not that we kill ourselves, 445 00:17:29,650 --> 00:17:32,870 but that there is some Fermi grape filter that's in front of us. 446 00:17:32,869 --> 00:17:35,179 It could be that we kill ourselves. 447 00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:39,930 It could be that it's impossible to get through the Oort cloud of a star system. 448 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:40,630 But even then, 449 00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:46,670 I'd find it very surprising that we don't see Dyson spheres in our galaxy in that case. 450 00:17:46,670 --> 00:17:47,670 Yeah. 451 00:17:47,670 --> 00:17:48,500 Although, 452 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:50,809 if you can't get off your planet, 453 00:17:50,809 --> 00:17:57,029 then it would be much harder to spot those. 454 00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:59,119 Any one of those Fermi grape filters, 455 00:17:59,119 --> 00:17:59,500 to me, 456 00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:02,720 the most likely is self-destructive nature of AI, 457 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,910 but it could be anything. 458 00:18:04,910 --> 00:18:06,789 Do you think that Dyson spheres, 459 00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:07,980 Mithroshka brains, 460 00:18:07,980 --> 00:18:09,750 are a certainty out there? 461 00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:12,759 not really, 462 00:18:12,759 --> 00:18:14,000 because you can't see any. 463 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:20,500 So it's more likely that they don't arise because intelligent civilizations don't survive long enough to produce them. 464 00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:21,500 Yeah. 465 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:26,009 I think you'd mentioned before that Starcloud is somehow on the path to creating, 466 00:18:26,009 --> 00:18:26,920 like, 467 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,500 step one of the Dyson Sphere, 468 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:30,500 like around our own sun. 469 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:31,220 Yeah, 470 00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:31,500 no. 471 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:31,990 Well, 472 00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:32,480 yeah, 473 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,509 Starcloud 1 is step one of a Dyson Sphere, 474 00:18:35,509 --> 00:18:36,500 in theory. 475 00:18:36,619 --> 00:18:38,589 We're using sort of out-of-power GPUs, 476 00:18:38,589 --> 00:18:41,500 which is what Matrioshka Brain is going to be doing. 477 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:42,380 Not GPUs, 478 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:45,500 but like high-powered AI compute. 479 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:46,059 Yeah, 480 00:18:46,059 --> 00:18:46,500 we are. 481 00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:46,839 I mean, 482 00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:48,579 the natural extension of our company, 483 00:18:48,579 --> 00:18:53,500 we're the first company ever whose natural extension is to build a Dyson Sphere/Matrioshka Brain. 484 00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:55,509 That doesn't mean that we... 485 00:18:55,509 --> 00:18:55,890 Yeah, 486 00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:57,500 I still think it's... 487 00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:06,500 I think it would be incredibly likely that we would build a Dyson's field matrioshka brain were it not for the Flaming Paradox. 488 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:11,099 So that's the one thing that keeps me from thinking it's super likely. 489 00:19:11,099 --> 00:19:13,599 Do you think that would be good for our species if we, 490 00:19:13,599 --> 00:19:13,939 like, 491 00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:17,120 harnessed all of the sun's energy for compute? 492 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:22,199 Do you think that we'd be better off than we are today? 493 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,500 It's quite hard to imagine a world like that. 494 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:25,029 I mean, 495 00:19:25,029 --> 00:19:26,019 for one thing, 496 00:19:26,019 --> 00:19:28,609 the compute that you're talking about is going to be a trillion, 497 00:19:28,609 --> 00:19:28,979 trillion, 498 00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:29,349 trillion, 499 00:19:29,349 --> 00:19:33,179 trillion times smarter than all of humanity combined. 500 00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:34,039 And at that point, 501 00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:36,139 it's hard even to know how relevant we are. 502 00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:36,720 I mean, 503 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,059 it would be nice if we continued to exist, 504 00:19:40,059 --> 00:19:45,059 but our existence would most likely be in the form of some kind of, 505 00:19:45,059 --> 00:19:45,529 like, 506 00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:46,329 museum or, 507 00:19:46,329 --> 00:19:46,819 like, 508 00:19:46,819 --> 00:19:48,259 game park to sort of, 509 00:19:48,259 --> 00:19:49,339 as an oddity, 510 00:19:49,339 --> 00:19:50,339 would be kept around. 511 00:19:50,410 --> 00:19:56,040 There's a certain Rick and Morty episode that's coming to mind, 512 00:19:56,039 --> 00:19:57,579 just like this, 513 00:19:57,579 --> 00:19:58,179 where, 514 00:19:58,180 --> 00:19:58,660 like, 515 00:19:58,660 --> 00:20:02,220 humanity and then each other alien species is put into, 516 00:20:02,220 --> 00:20:02,670 like, 517 00:20:02,670 --> 00:20:03,740 a zoo of form. 518 00:20:03,740 --> 00:20:05,470 Can't believe we got put into a menagerie. 519 00:20:05,470 --> 00:20:07,299 So this guy collects living beings? 520 00:20:07,299 --> 00:20:07,700 Yeah. 521 00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:08,120 You know, 522 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:08,819 like commemorative plates, 523 00:20:08,819 --> 00:20:09,619 but less off-putting. 524 00:20:09,619 --> 00:20:12,259 Have you seen Rick and Morty? 525 00:20:12,259 --> 00:20:14,349 I've seen very bits of it, 526 00:20:14,349 --> 00:20:17,699 but not well enough to know that scene. 527 00:20:17,769 --> 00:20:19,650 It's a terrifying concept, 528 00:20:19,650 --> 00:20:22,019 but it seems that could happen if, 529 00:20:22,019 --> 00:20:22,509 like, 530 00:20:22,509 --> 00:20:24,339 we became irrelevant. 531 00:20:24,339 --> 00:20:25,399 Do you find... 532 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:26,120 Sorry, 533 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,259 go ahead. 534 00:20:27,259 --> 00:20:28,319 What do you think? 535 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:28,769 Like, 536 00:20:28,769 --> 00:20:32,200 what's your solution to the Pyramid Paradox? 537 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,500 Or are we ahead of calamity or not? 538 00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:34,849 Yeah, 539 00:20:34,849 --> 00:20:36,740 I think we just haven't reached far enough. 540 00:20:36,740 --> 00:20:37,089 I think, 541 00:20:37,089 --> 00:20:37,359 like, 542 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:38,429 it's just a matter of, 543 00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:40,730 the vastness of space that we just haven't been able to, 544 00:20:40,730 --> 00:20:41,009 like, 545 00:20:41,009 --> 00:20:44,559 probe our consciousness out there into the cosmos enough to, 546 00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:45,009 like, 547 00:20:45,009 --> 00:20:46,819 have heard a response back, 548 00:20:46,819 --> 00:20:47,419 like, 549 00:20:47,420 --> 00:20:48,880 to poke and get some... 550 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:49,720 get poked back. 551 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,900 But I think that in the next... 552 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:51,330 No, 553 00:20:51,329 --> 00:20:54,419 we can't see planets or stars just in our galaxy. 554 00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:54,840 Yeah, 555 00:20:54,839 --> 00:20:55,480 but I mean, 556 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:56,360 it may... 557 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,000 I think that life just may be rarer than we think, 558 00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:59,869 right? 559 00:20:59,869 --> 00:21:00,179 Like, 560 00:21:00,180 --> 00:21:01,240 statistically. 561 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,099 It's definitely out there, 562 00:21:03,099 --> 00:21:08,219 but it's just super vast and it happens so rarely and may be fleeting in terms of the time, 563 00:21:08,220 --> 00:21:08,599 like, 564 00:21:08,599 --> 00:21:11,299 it exists before it extinguishes itself. 565 00:21:11,369 --> 00:21:12,139 It could be, 566 00:21:12,139 --> 00:21:12,359 yeah. 567 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:12,700 I mean, 568 00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:17,559 one argument against that is that it only took 200 million years on our planet for life to form, 569 00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:20,259 and we've been going four billion years on this planet. 570 00:21:20,259 --> 00:21:24,250 So relatively early into the life of the planet, 571 00:21:24,250 --> 00:21:26,180 we had life on Earth. 572 00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:30,460 The rebuttal to that is that it then took another sort of three billion years before you had complex life. 573 00:21:30,460 --> 00:21:33,880 So maybe complex life is extremely hard to produce, 574 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:34,260 but, 575 00:21:34,259 --> 00:21:34,720 like, 576 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:35,920 single cells or, 577 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,740 you know, 578 00:21:36,740 --> 00:21:37,740 yeah. 579 00:21:37,809 --> 00:21:42,220 I like how you said "complex" instead of "intelligent life". 580 00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:43,220 Complex meaning multicellular. 581 00:21:43,220 --> 00:21:44,049 Sure. 582 00:21:44,049 --> 00:21:44,279 Yeah. 583 00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:44,579 So, 584 00:21:44,579 --> 00:21:45,099 I mean, 585 00:21:45,099 --> 00:21:46,929 we've talked before about, 586 00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:47,380 like, 587 00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:47,910 AI and, 588 00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:48,680 like, 589 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,980 degrees of sentience. 590 00:21:49,980 --> 00:21:50,390 Like, 591 00:21:50,389 --> 00:21:52,119 what do you think would... 592 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,919 I know you said that you believe AGI is coming soon, 593 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,320 but where do you believe the line is in sentience, 594 00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:57,659 like, 595 00:21:57,660 --> 00:21:58,860 separating us from AI? 596 00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:01,740 Or do you believe such a line exists? 597 00:22:01,809 --> 00:22:02,799 Yeah, 598 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:10,740 I think AGI seems like it's almost here in a year or two. 599 00:22:10,740 --> 00:22:17,259 But I think we're going to blow past it so quickly that it's not even going to be relevant anymore. 600 00:22:17,259 --> 00:22:17,670 Yeah, 601 00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:18,340 nobody's going to, 602 00:22:18,339 --> 00:22:18,619 like, 603 00:22:18,619 --> 00:22:19,699 plant the flag and be like, 604 00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:20,860 "That was AGI". Like, 605 00:22:20,860 --> 00:22:22,310 it'll be an event in, 606 00:22:22,309 --> 00:22:22,519 like, 607 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:23,730 the hindsight of history, 608 00:22:23,730 --> 00:22:24,259 right? 609 00:22:24,259 --> 00:22:25,259 Yeah. 610 00:22:25,259 --> 00:22:26,319 That happened. 611 00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:27,699 It maybe even already happened. 612 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:28,210 Like, 613 00:22:28,210 --> 00:22:29,819 this was a landmark, 614 00:22:29,819 --> 00:22:30,730 like, 615 00:22:30,730 --> 00:22:31,700 transformation, 616 00:22:31,769 --> 00:22:32,210 you know, 617 00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:33,130 that led... 618 00:22:33,130 --> 00:22:33,640 that was, 619 00:22:33,639 --> 00:22:33,979 like, 620 00:22:33,980 --> 00:22:34,360 AGI's, 621 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:34,700 like, 622 00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:35,100 birth, 623 00:22:35,099 --> 00:22:35,899 if you will. 624 00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:36,769 Yeah, 625 00:22:36,769 --> 00:22:37,420 yeah. 626 00:22:37,420 --> 00:22:38,480 Yeah. 627 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,740 You think we're really close then? 628 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:41,799 Yeah. 629 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:43,500 Even if it was five years, 630 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:47,860 I think that's extremely close in the grand scheme of things. 631 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:51,410 Is there any governance that you think we should set up as a species to, 632 00:22:51,410 --> 00:22:51,789 like, 633 00:22:51,789 --> 00:22:52,339 prevent, 634 00:22:52,339 --> 00:22:53,019 you know, 635 00:22:53,019 --> 00:22:55,299 us from being extinguished prematurely? 636 00:22:55,299 --> 00:23:00,899 It's just so hard to govern because you need China and Russia and everyone else to agree at the same time. 637 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,920 And everybody's kind of incentivized to go as fast as they can on their own AI. 638 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,080 It would be good. 639 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:07,500 Like, 640 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,309 it certainly wouldn't be the worst thing, 641 00:23:10,309 --> 00:23:14,740 but I wouldn't want it to be just restricting the US and not restricting everyone else. 642 00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:18,539 And that seems extremely hard to do. 643 00:23:18,539 --> 00:23:19,699 Yeah. 644 00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:22,130 International law has always had very finite limitations. 645 00:23:22,130 --> 00:23:23,060 So it seems... 646 00:23:23,059 --> 00:23:24,829 it doesn't seem like there's a realistic way. 647 00:23:24,829 --> 00:23:25,710 But I was just... 648 00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:26,279 I was hoping. 649 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:29,819 I was hoping you might have a crazy idea out there. 650 00:23:29,819 --> 00:23:30,879 Yeah. 651 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:31,600 I don't know. 652 00:23:31,599 --> 00:23:33,589 I don't have a particularly good idea, 653 00:23:33,589 --> 00:23:34,420 to be honest. 654 00:23:34,420 --> 00:23:39,460 Do you feel that Starcloud ties deeply in with your own personal purpose for existing? 655 00:23:39,460 --> 00:23:41,220 Your own mission that you've chosen for yourself? 656 00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:42,279 Yes. 657 00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:42,589 Yeah, 658 00:23:42,589 --> 00:23:43,269 very much. 659 00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:47,980 I can't think of anything more meaningful than trying to build a Dyson sphere. 660 00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:49,039 Yeah. 661 00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:50,539 So is that the meaning of your life? 662 00:23:50,539 --> 00:23:50,839 Like, 663 00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:51,629 on your deathbed, 664 00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:53,340 you're going to be like, 665 00:23:53,339 --> 00:23:59,899 "It was to get as far as I can building this Dyson sphere". Career-wise, 666 00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:00,030 yeah. 667 00:24:00,029 --> 00:24:00,339 I mean, 668 00:24:00,339 --> 00:24:01,190 beyond career-wise, 669 00:24:01,190 --> 00:24:03,960 I think the most important thing is to have children and a family. 670 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:04,250 Like, 671 00:24:04,250 --> 00:24:06,150 I think that's more important than career. 672 00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:07,140 Much more important, 673 00:24:07,139 --> 00:24:08,199 actually. 674 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,019 But in terms of my career, 675 00:24:09,019 --> 00:24:13,460 I can't think of anything more interesting and important than building a Matrioshka brain. 676 00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:13,950 Yeah. 677 00:24:13,950 --> 00:24:14,519 Okay. 678 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,599 That's a little terrifying when you put it that way. 679 00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:18,230 But also, 680 00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:18,789 like, 681 00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:21,920 it could be wonderful for our species. 682 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,550 I guess only time will tell. 683 00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:25,079 As a founder, 684 00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:27,059 how do you refill your cup? 685 00:24:27,059 --> 00:24:28,500 How do you keep going? 686 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:30,150 You're very ambitious. 687 00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:31,720 You got a lot going on. 688 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,069 YC founders are always red-lighting, 689 00:24:34,069 --> 00:24:35,379 pushing it to the limit. 690 00:24:35,380 --> 00:24:38,380 How do you keep yourself in the game? 691 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:42,750 Erm... 692 00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:50,289 The answer used to be that I would go for a run or things like that, 693 00:24:50,289 --> 00:24:52,250 but I just don't have time for any of that shit now. 694 00:24:52,250 --> 00:24:54,250 But maybe I'm like... 695 00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:55,039 To be honest, 696 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:58,250 I am probably pushing it a bit close to the limit right now. 697 00:24:58,250 --> 00:25:03,250 So I might need to adjust my schedule and start doing exercise again. 698 00:25:07,450 --> 00:25:07,980 Yeah, 699 00:25:07,980 --> 00:25:10,099 doing a little side... 700 00:25:10,099 --> 00:25:12,029 I'm doing this... 701 00:25:12,029 --> 00:25:12,629 Yeah, 702 00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:16,250 relevant but slightly side projects as well, 703 00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:18,250 which I cannot mention yet. 704 00:25:18,250 --> 00:25:19,250 I know. 705 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:19,700 Yeah, 706 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:20,150 yeah, 707 00:25:20,150 --> 00:25:20,790 yeah. 708 00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:22,250 We'll keep it secret. 709 00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:29,250 So is there anything that you think you should be doing differently to make this grind more sustainable for yourself? 710 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:31,250 Anything that you'd suggest to other founders? 711 00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:33,250 Because it's easy when things are working. 712 00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:35,009 You just had the launch. 713 00:25:35,009 --> 00:25:37,970 When your ARR is looking up and to the right, 714 00:25:37,970 --> 00:25:40,250 it's easy to keep the grind on. 715 00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:43,970 But when your key indicators are plateauing, 716 00:25:43,970 --> 00:25:45,170 or even worse, 717 00:25:45,170 --> 00:25:46,250 going down, 718 00:25:46,250 --> 00:25:49,250 how do you keep yourself motivated? 719 00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:53,210 Aside from just blind belief in your business, 720 00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:55,250 how do you keep going? 721 00:25:55,450 --> 00:25:55,920 Yeah, 722 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,390 I think it's important to keep a sense of perspective. 723 00:26:00,390 --> 00:26:06,250 I was just speaking with a founder who's going through what he thinks is a bad fundraise. 724 00:26:06,250 --> 00:26:09,180 And in the grand scheme of things, 725 00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:11,250 they're doing great. 726 00:26:11,250 --> 00:26:11,559 You know, 727 00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:12,250 everything... 728 00:26:12,250 --> 00:26:12,559 Yeah, 729 00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:16,250 they got a term sheet and it's a decent term sheet from a good fund and whatever. 730 00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:21,250 It just wasn't as good as everybody had said they were going to get in the beginning. 731 00:26:21,450 --> 00:26:22,529 So yeah, 732 00:26:22,529 --> 00:26:26,250 everything's relative. 733 00:26:26,250 --> 00:26:29,250 And there's very few things which are literally going to kill the company. 734 00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:30,650 And if they are, 735 00:26:30,650 --> 00:26:34,250 then maybe you should be a bit stressed. 736 00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:36,119 So yeah, 737 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,849 I think keeping a sense of perspective and comparing yourself to what you were a year ago, 738 00:26:40,849 --> 00:26:44,059 I think that's all healthy stuff to do. 739 00:26:44,059 --> 00:26:44,450 Yeah, 740 00:26:44,450 --> 00:26:46,860 my co-founder likes to remind me of that. 741 00:26:46,859 --> 00:26:48,819 Whenever I'm particularly stressing, 742 00:26:48,819 --> 00:26:49,750 he'll be like, 743 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:50,180 "Hey, 744 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:52,900 just remember where we were one year back. 745 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:57,150 Look how far we've come". But the fires of the moment, 746 00:26:57,150 --> 00:26:57,840 today, 747 00:26:57,839 --> 00:26:59,539 they feel mighty. 748 00:26:59,539 --> 00:27:00,779 They feel intimidating, 749 00:27:00,869 --> 00:27:01,500 sometimes. 750 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:02,500 Yeah. 751 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:02,619 So, 752 00:27:02,619 --> 00:27:03,500 try to keep that perspective. 753 00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:06,200 One thing that's slightly nice about my position is, 754 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,299 because I'm not day-to-day in engineering, 755 00:27:09,299 --> 00:27:14,609 when there's what feels like an absolute disaster on the engineering side, 756 00:27:14,609 --> 00:27:19,619 I can have a bit more of a level head about it. 757 00:27:19,619 --> 00:27:22,669 The engineering team can be in disarray, 758 00:27:22,670 --> 00:27:31,130 and it doesn't seem like as big of a deal to me because I have a slightly removed perspective on it, 759 00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:32,100 maybe. 760 00:27:32,099 --> 00:27:32,779 Yeah. 761 00:27:32,779 --> 00:27:37,220 It's interesting how much distance you've kept from engineering. 762 00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:39,059 It seems to be working well. 763 00:27:39,059 --> 00:27:40,220 I want to start by saying that. 764 00:27:40,220 --> 00:27:41,299 Usually, 765 00:27:41,299 --> 00:27:44,659 the founders I know in the space, 766 00:27:44,660 --> 00:27:53,380 they're all super deeply technical and involved in the day-to-day of the development of the technology. 767 00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:56,360 How do you think your distances affected the company, 768 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:57,980 positively and negatively, 769 00:27:57,980 --> 00:28:00,569 aside from level-headed decision-making, 770 00:28:00,569 --> 00:28:01,509 which is huge? 771 00:28:01,509 --> 00:28:03,259 Don't let me diminish that. 772 00:28:03,259 --> 00:28:07,299 But how else do you think it's run differently because of that space you have? 773 00:28:07,299 --> 00:28:07,629 So, 774 00:28:07,630 --> 00:28:10,460 I'm very in the product side of things. 775 00:28:10,460 --> 00:28:10,789 So, 776 00:28:10,789 --> 00:28:15,779 what is this actually going to produce for customers? 777 00:28:15,779 --> 00:28:17,349 But I'm not in the, 778 00:28:17,349 --> 00:28:18,039 "Okay, 779 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:26,829 let's do a fluid dynamic simulation of the thermal dissipation of this chip". Like that I'm removed from. 780 00:28:26,829 --> 00:28:34,579 And it would not work were it not for the fact that my two co-founders... 781 00:28:34,579 --> 00:28:38,109 We are fully equal partners in terms of both equity, 782 00:28:38,109 --> 00:28:38,559 board seats, 783 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:39,789 and everything else. 784 00:28:39,789 --> 00:28:42,379 It's not like they work for me or anything like that. 785 00:28:42,380 --> 00:28:48,910 And that means it's not like I cannot and would never try and override them on any engineering decisions. 786 00:28:48,910 --> 00:28:51,289 They are as much in this as I am, 787 00:28:51,289 --> 00:28:54,980 as much their company as it is my company. 788 00:28:54,980 --> 00:28:56,460 And I think that's very important. 789 00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:57,140 Yeah, 790 00:28:57,139 --> 00:29:01,279 I view myself a bit like the sort of Gwynne Shotwell of the operation, 791 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:02,460 if you know who that is. 792 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:03,120 I do. 793 00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:03,599 I do. 794 00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:04,279 Yeah. 795 00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:06,019 Healthy distance. 796 00:29:06,019 --> 00:29:06,710 Okay. 797 00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:11,829 And how do you keep yourself growing so that you can rise to the occasion? 798 00:29:11,829 --> 00:29:14,919 Keeping your own growth curve ahead of the business 799 00:29:14,919 --> 00:29:18,128 so that you can be the decision maker and leader that 800 00:29:18,128 --> 00:29:21,099 your business needs you to be when the time comes? 801 00:29:21,099 --> 00:29:25,939 What do you do to be prepared in that way? 802 00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:28,190 I don't have a strategy around that, 803 00:29:28,190 --> 00:29:29,130 to be honest. 804 00:29:29,130 --> 00:29:37,720 There's just almost so much stuff coming that is new and produces growth that I don't have to seek out learning opportunities in that sense, 805 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,360 if you know what I mean. 806 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,090 Yeah, 807 00:29:39,089 --> 00:29:39,359 yeah. 808 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,540 I don't really have a way of preparing for it either now. 809 00:29:44,579 --> 00:29:46,139 The words punch you in the face too fast, 810 00:29:46,139 --> 00:29:46,589 too hard. 811 00:29:46,589 --> 00:29:48,599 You're getting enough learnings there. 812 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:52,059 You don't have to go look for learnings or read books for it right now. 813 00:29:52,059 --> 00:29:52,379 No, 814 00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:53,880 I certainly don't. 815 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,310 I'm extremely anti, 816 00:29:55,309 --> 00:29:56,859 what do they call it? 817 00:29:56,860 --> 00:29:58,500 Productivity porn. 818 00:29:58,500 --> 00:29:59,230 Yeah? 819 00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:00,380 Why is that? 820 00:30:00,380 --> 00:30:05,220 You're the second founder I've had on out of five that have said that. 821 00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:07,940 So I'm really interested in hearing why you think that. 822 00:30:07,940 --> 00:30:08,610 Well, 823 00:30:08,610 --> 00:30:08,910 number one, 824 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:13,560 the people I know that espouse it the most are some of the least productive people I know. 825 00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:14,079 And number two, 826 00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:14,859 when I actually read it, 827 00:30:14,860 --> 00:30:18,420 the whole thing is just either completely generic and obvious or total bullshit. 828 00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:19,140 So yeah, 829 00:30:19,139 --> 00:30:21,739 I don't buy into any of that crap, 830 00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:23,019 to be honest. 831 00:30:23,019 --> 00:30:24,019 Yeah. 832 00:30:24,019 --> 00:30:26,240 What do you think the most productive, 833 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,519 successful in terms of outcome people you know do? 834 00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:31,500 What are their habits? 835 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:34,819 They're just focused on the thing they actually want to do and they just get their head down and do it. 836 00:30:34,819 --> 00:30:38,009 They're not wondering about productivity. 837 00:30:38,009 --> 00:30:40,900 They're just fucking doing the thing. 838 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:41,539 Yeah. 839 00:30:41,539 --> 00:30:44,190 I think I've started to see that as well, 840 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:46,779 especially in the hard tech space. 841 00:30:46,779 --> 00:30:49,700 It's really about getting the product out the door. 842 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:51,279 Whereas if you're doing B2B SaaS, 843 00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:54,460 there's so many more things you have to be successful in. 844 00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:56,880 There's AI you have to worry about. 845 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:57,840 There's also other competitors, 846 00:30:57,839 --> 00:30:58,269 of course, 847 00:30:58,269 --> 00:30:59,980 you've traditionally had to worry about. 848 00:30:59,980 --> 00:31:02,339 When you're doing what you're doing, 849 00:31:02,339 --> 00:31:03,470 to some extent, 850 00:31:03,470 --> 00:31:05,160 if the product's great, 851 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,140 there's not that many other things you have to execute on. 852 00:31:08,139 --> 00:31:10,819 It simplifies all the other things. 853 00:31:10,819 --> 00:31:14,420 I think that was the crux of Sam's essay, 854 00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:15,860 right? 855 00:31:15,860 --> 00:31:16,860 That wasn't how I... 856 00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:17,040 Oh, 857 00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:17,859 I see what you mean. 858 00:31:17,860 --> 00:31:18,800 I think I see what you mean. 859 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:19,029 Yeah, 860 00:31:19,029 --> 00:31:19,339 yeah. 861 00:31:19,339 --> 00:31:20,769 When you have a high technical risk, 862 00:31:20,769 --> 00:31:22,250 which doesn't have market risk, 863 00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:26,190 then you just need to execute on the technicals. 864 00:31:26,190 --> 00:31:26,600 Yeah, 865 00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:28,219 that's what he's saying. 866 00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:35,619 Any other startups you'd be doing outside of the space space if you were starting another startup today? 867 00:31:35,619 --> 00:31:37,619 Definitely be in hard tech. 868 00:31:37,619 --> 00:31:40,429 I think robotics is super interesting. 869 00:31:40,430 --> 00:31:46,240 I'm getting maybe a little bit saturated now on the startup side, 870 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:51,900 but I still think it's like day zero for robotics right now. 871 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:56,019 It just has so far to run. 872 00:31:56,019 --> 00:31:59,250 But the degree to which that will get eaten by Optimus, 873 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,259 I'm not sure. 874 00:32:00,259 --> 00:32:00,589 Yeah, 875 00:32:00,589 --> 00:32:02,559 the humanoid robots are getting crazy. 876 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:05,409 These general-purpose ones that fit in our world, 877 00:32:05,410 --> 00:32:08,259 they're pretty incredible. 878 00:32:08,259 --> 00:32:10,940 What's your take on the humanoid robots? 879 00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:12,420 I'm a big believer. 880 00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:19,539 I think humanoids are going to crush every other form factor because they'll be manufactured cheaply. 881 00:32:19,539 --> 00:32:21,049 All the purpose-built ones, 882 00:32:21,049 --> 00:32:21,460 too? 883 00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:22,190 Yes, 884 00:32:22,190 --> 00:32:22,769 pretty much, 885 00:32:22,769 --> 00:32:23,360 yeah. 886 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,210 Do you have anything contrarian that you are really bullish on, 887 00:32:27,210 --> 00:32:31,900 that you really believe that nobody else believes out there? 888 00:32:31,900 --> 00:32:32,630 Well, 889 00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:39,820 I used to believe that most new data centers will be being built in space soon. 890 00:32:39,819 --> 00:32:41,369 And that used to be very contrarian, 891 00:32:41,369 --> 00:32:42,939 but it's not contrarian anymore. 892 00:32:42,940 --> 00:32:43,670 Ah, 893 00:32:43,670 --> 00:32:46,779 thanks to you guys. 894 00:32:47,450 --> 00:32:47,800 Yeah, 895 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:52,829 humanoids used to be contrarian, 896 00:32:52,829 --> 00:32:53,779 too. 897 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,000 I wonder... 898 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:54,339 Yeah, 899 00:32:54,339 --> 00:32:57,000 I was like so bullish on humanoids before anybody else. 900 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,000 The world you imagined has come true! 901 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,390 Like, 902 00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:02,170 now you're just a normal person. 903 00:33:02,170 --> 00:33:02,360 Like, 904 00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:05,000 how does it feel? 905 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,279 I think... 906 00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:09,420 Yeah, 907 00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:10,470 I don't have any, 908 00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:10,890 like, 909 00:33:10,890 --> 00:33:12,940 mega contrarian takes right now, 910 00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:14,000 to be honest. 911 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:14,480 No, 912 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,000 it's not like I look through... 913 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,000 Because I was literally looking for a humanoid company to invest in, 914 00:33:21,150 --> 00:33:21,390 and, 915 00:33:21,390 --> 00:33:21,680 you know, 916 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:22,370 like a year ago, 917 00:33:22,369 --> 00:33:24,000 I was looking through the YC batches, 918 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,000 or maybe more than that, 919 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,000 and found this amazing company from the Optimus team. 920 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,599 Oh, 921 00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:32,000 really? 922 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:32,509 Yeah, 923 00:33:32,509 --> 00:33:34,000 it's called Proception. 924 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,000 It's freaking amazing. 925 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,000 Proception. 926 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:36,509 Okay, 927 00:33:36,509 --> 00:33:38,000 I'll look at them. 928 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,000 That's pretty cool. 929 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,000 How are they doing? 930 00:33:41,630 --> 00:33:41,930 Well, 931 00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:43,360 they got sued by Tesla, 932 00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:44,939 which is a bit annoying, 933 00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:45,490 but... 934 00:33:45,490 --> 00:33:48,059 I think they're doing good. 935 00:33:48,059 --> 00:33:49,440 Yeah. 936 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,000 I think you've got a twin brother in YC, 937 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:53,500 right? 938 00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:54,859 Who's doing better? 939 00:33:54,859 --> 00:33:55,490 Me, 940 00:33:55,490 --> 00:33:57,420 obviously. 941 00:33:57,420 --> 00:33:58,430 Obviously. 942 00:33:58,430 --> 00:34:00,140 What's he working on? 943 00:34:00,140 --> 00:34:02,060 What's he got going on? 944 00:34:02,059 --> 00:34:04,460 They're doing voice agents for tradespeople. 945 00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:05,860 It's a bit like Broccoli in the US, 946 00:34:05,859 --> 00:34:07,189 but they're doing it in the UK. 947 00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:07,700 Okay. 948 00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:08,059 Yeah, 949 00:34:08,059 --> 00:34:08,619 yeah. 950 00:34:08,619 --> 00:34:09,279 Very, 951 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,340 very important planetary work that they're doing there. 952 00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:11,650 So, 953 00:34:11,650 --> 00:34:12,349 you know, 954 00:34:12,349 --> 00:34:15,420 you and your brother have like a ego contest, 955 00:34:15,420 --> 00:34:16,139 like being a twin. 956 00:34:16,139 --> 00:34:16,400 Like, 957 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,740 I imagine it's super competitive. 958 00:34:17,739 --> 00:34:18,129 Yeah, 959 00:34:18,130 --> 00:34:19,660 we definitely compete. 960 00:34:19,659 --> 00:34:23,019 Whichever twin is losing competes harder. 961 00:34:23,019 --> 00:34:23,579 Yeah. 962 00:34:23,579 --> 00:34:26,299 So he's working his butt off right now. 963 00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:27,500 Is that right? 964 00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:28,199 Yeah, 965 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:33,419 I'm not sure he fully agrees he's losing right now. 966 00:34:36,860 --> 00:34:38,700 He's working harder than he was for a long time. 967 00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:44,679 How do you convince the best people to come work for you at StarCloud? 968 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,279 We've talked about co-founders, 969 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,580 how to get them right. 970 00:34:48,579 --> 00:34:51,219 There was someone that you'd already known. 971 00:34:51,219 --> 00:34:53,109 But in terms of engineers, 972 00:34:53,110 --> 00:34:57,260 what do you think is the key to bring the best and brightest? 973 00:34:57,260 --> 00:34:57,680 Yeah, 974 00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:59,039 there's two things. 975 00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:02,590 Great engineers want to work with other great engineers. 976 00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:06,640 So you need to just keep the bar extremely high and not letting anybody subpar. 977 00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:09,500 Because the moment you do that, 978 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:12,670 then your value prop for everybody else goes down. 979 00:35:12,670 --> 00:35:15,619 So it's just mega important to keep the bar super high. 980 00:35:15,619 --> 00:35:18,130 And they need to be obviously good engineers. 981 00:35:18,130 --> 00:35:18,930 It's not like, 982 00:35:18,929 --> 00:35:19,230 "Oh, 983 00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:19,980 this is my mate. 984 00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:22,210 I used to work with him and he's pretty good". It's like, 985 00:35:22,210 --> 00:35:22,460 "No, 986 00:35:22,460 --> 00:35:26,170 the guy's got a fucking PhD from MIT". People can look at the guy and be like, 987 00:35:26,170 --> 00:35:27,860 "He's amazing". Or like, 988 00:35:27,860 --> 00:35:28,650 "Okay, 989 00:35:28,650 --> 00:35:34,700 this guy designed this thing at SpaceX". So that's one. 990 00:35:34,699 --> 00:35:44,539 Second is people want to work on an exciting mission, 991 00:35:44,539 --> 00:35:46,460 so you need to be able to articulate the mission. 992 00:35:46,460 --> 00:35:52,220 What do you think? 993 00:35:52,219 --> 00:35:55,339 How was your approach different from your previous company? 994 00:35:58,590 --> 00:36:02,460 We didn't need amazingly technical people in the last one. 995 00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:04,059 The last one was eCommerce, 996 00:36:04,059 --> 00:36:04,960 digital brands, 997 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:05,800 aggregation. 998 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,190 So it was very different. 999 00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:11,190 We just needed people who had a good work ethic. 1000 00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:15,329 But they didn't need to be one-of-one engineers. 1001 00:36:15,329 --> 00:36:15,819 Whereas now, 1002 00:36:15,820 --> 00:36:17,280 we do need one-of-one engineers. 1003 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,380 Yeah. 1004 00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:20,700 It's really cutting edge what you're working on. 1005 00:36:20,699 --> 00:36:22,699 I imagine the stakes are super different. 1006 00:36:22,699 --> 00:36:24,460 Yeah. 1007 00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:26,110 In terms of StarCloud One, 1008 00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:32,559 is it just a proof of concept or are there any customers that have any LOIs that are triggered from it? 1009 00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:33,409 What happens now, 1010 00:36:33,409 --> 00:36:34,699 if you're able to share? 1011 00:36:34,699 --> 00:36:35,259 Yeah. 1012 00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:37,830 We'll be doing some paid work on that, 1013 00:36:37,829 --> 00:36:39,289 for example. 1014 00:36:39,289 --> 00:36:39,820 Yeah, 1015 00:36:39,820 --> 00:36:40,060 actually, 1016 00:36:40,059 --> 00:36:41,949 I can't really say yet when we announce it, 1017 00:36:41,949 --> 00:36:42,699 I can't say. 1018 00:36:42,699 --> 00:36:48,139 But we're doing a whole bunch of first training modeling space, 1019 00:36:48,139 --> 00:36:50,389 first to run a version of Gemini in space, 1020 00:36:50,389 --> 00:36:52,219 a whole bunch of other things. 1021 00:36:52,349 --> 00:36:53,369 That's pretty exciting. 1022 00:36:53,369 --> 00:36:57,179 Are the first customers going to be like defense or civil protection agencies? 1023 00:36:57,179 --> 00:36:58,069 Defense, 1024 00:36:58,070 --> 00:36:58,780 yeah. 1025 00:36:58,780 --> 00:36:59,200 Okay. 1026 00:36:59,199 --> 00:37:00,559 That's pretty exciting, 1027 00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:03,579 but also probably a lot of red tape and headache for your life. 1028 00:37:03,579 --> 00:37:07,659 Has it gotten overwhelming yet or are you still retaining a lot of your freedom? 1029 00:37:07,659 --> 00:37:08,230 Yeah, 1030 00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:10,460 there is a lot of red tape. 1031 00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:12,619 Or yeah, 1032 00:37:12,619 --> 00:37:16,619 there's a lot of security protocols and things. 1033 00:37:19,710 --> 00:37:20,929 Why did you choose Redmond, 1034 00:37:20,929 --> 00:37:22,379 if you don't mind me asking? 1035 00:37:22,380 --> 00:37:24,059 I was curious when I saw that online. 1036 00:37:24,059 --> 00:37:24,650 Yeah. 1037 00:37:24,650 --> 00:37:29,019 It's mainly because they have amazing space talent up there. 1038 00:37:29,019 --> 00:37:33,820 So we started down in El Segundo because people told us we need to be there for the space talent. 1039 00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:37,740 But everybody there knows about propulsion and launch and aerodynamics, 1040 00:37:37,739 --> 00:37:41,739 but nobody knows about building satellites because the whole SpaceX satellite team is in Redmond. 1041 00:37:41,739 --> 00:37:44,589 The whole Amazon satellite team, 1042 00:37:44,590 --> 00:37:45,539 Project Kyper, 1043 00:37:45,539 --> 00:37:46,579 is in Redmond. 1044 00:37:46,579 --> 00:37:48,670 And then on the data center side, 1045 00:37:48,670 --> 00:37:50,010 you have AWS and Azure. 1046 00:37:50,010 --> 00:37:50,690 So basically, 1047 00:37:50,690 --> 00:37:52,619 everybody we want to hire is in Redmond. 1048 00:37:52,619 --> 00:37:53,960 So a nice overlap. 1049 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:54,429 Yeah, 1050 00:37:54,429 --> 00:37:55,819 that makes sense. 1051 00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:56,940 Yeah. 1052 00:37:56,940 --> 00:37:57,170 Yeah, 1053 00:37:57,170 --> 00:37:59,340 there's nowhere else we could really be doing this business. 1054 00:37:59,340 --> 00:38:01,140 You're passionate about space. 1055 00:38:01,139 --> 00:38:02,699 You want to have many kids. 1056 00:38:02,699 --> 00:38:05,460 Is there anything that you strongly disagree with Elon on? 1057 00:38:05,460 --> 00:38:07,840 If you're even allowed to say, 1058 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:08,780 with your dependency? 1059 00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:12,420 Not really. 1060 00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:13,659 I agree with him on almost everything, 1061 00:38:13,659 --> 00:38:14,139 to be honest. 1062 00:38:14,139 --> 00:38:16,210 Even things I don't agree with him on, 1063 00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:17,659 I kind of see his point. 1064 00:38:17,659 --> 00:38:23,289 He recently tweeted "repeat murderers" or something. 1065 00:38:23,289 --> 00:38:30,170 There should be a death penalty for 100% proof of violent murder or something like that. 1066 00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:30,500 Now, 1067 00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:32,460 I don't necessarily agree with that. 1068 00:38:32,460 --> 00:38:34,650 I certainly didn't agree with it growing up. 1069 00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:38,059 But his articulation of the reasons why kind of makes sense. 1070 00:38:39,470 --> 00:38:39,860 Yeah, 1071 00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:40,470 sure. 1072 00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:42,060 I haven't read that, 1073 00:38:42,059 --> 00:38:44,139 but I bet there's a case for it. 1074 00:38:44,139 --> 00:38:45,339 There's a reason we had it around. 1075 00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:48,460 Some kinds of crimes that are worse than others. 1076 00:38:48,460 --> 00:38:49,920 Yeah. 1077 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:55,360 You guys were rejected twice before getting accepted into YC the third time, 1078 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:55,900 right? 1079 00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:56,400 Yes. 1080 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,340 Once was not as part of this kind of company. 1081 00:39:01,340 --> 00:39:02,780 It was a separate one that I played with. 1082 00:39:02,779 --> 00:39:03,309 Okay. 1083 00:39:03,309 --> 00:39:04,460 Different one. 1084 00:39:04,460 --> 00:39:05,010 Okay. 1085 00:39:05,010 --> 00:39:06,200 And what do you think, 1086 00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:09,319 between the first time you guys got rejected for StarCloud, 1087 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,740 what do you think it was that made the difference the second time? 1088 00:39:11,739 --> 00:39:12,829 The first time, 1089 00:39:12,829 --> 00:39:14,860 none of us had quit our jobs. 1090 00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:18,650 And we were interviewing in separate locations around the world. 1091 00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:20,440 And we'd been going on it for two weeks. 1092 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:21,180 Second time, 1093 00:39:21,179 --> 00:39:22,219 we'd all quit our jobs. 1094 00:39:22,220 --> 00:39:23,510 We were working full-time on it. 1095 00:39:23,510 --> 00:39:24,780 We'd designed the satellite. 1096 00:39:24,779 --> 00:39:28,159 We'd raised a pre-seed and booked the launch. 1097 00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:29,269 And second time, 1098 00:39:29,269 --> 00:39:31,849 it was undoubtedly going to happen. 1099 00:39:31,849 --> 00:39:33,579 First time was debatable. 1100 00:39:33,579 --> 00:39:36,940 So they could sense your lukewarm commitment and they're like, 1101 00:39:36,940 --> 00:39:38,710 "Nah". I guess so, 1102 00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:39,019 yeah. 1103 00:39:39,019 --> 00:39:43,039 In our previous chats, 1104 00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:51,739 you'd mentioned something about the permitting requirements being one of the huge problems StarCloud solves for with currently not having any in space. 1105 00:39:51,739 --> 00:39:54,139 But do you think that's going to change at some point? 1106 00:39:54,139 --> 00:39:56,389 Probably. 1107 00:39:56,389 --> 00:40:00,219 It's really hard to regulate space because similar to AI, 1108 00:40:00,220 --> 00:40:02,380 you need all nations to agree at the same time. 1109 00:40:02,380 --> 00:40:06,820 But there will probably be more, 1110 00:40:06,820 --> 00:40:07,220 not less, 1111 00:40:07,220 --> 00:40:08,690 regulation in space going forward. 1112 00:40:08,690 --> 00:40:14,510 I don't think it's going to change in the short to medium term. 1113 00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:16,220 I don't see anything on the horizon. 1114 00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:19,500 Do you think it'll resemble maritime law? 1115 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,860 It really does resemble maritime law. 1116 00:40:22,860 --> 00:40:34,190 It could be that you need to pay for a permit to fly in certain orbits, 1117 00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:35,250 which would be annoying. 1118 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:35,710 Right now, 1119 00:40:35,710 --> 00:40:36,860 you don't need to do that. 1120 00:40:36,860 --> 00:40:41,450 So they say move fast and break things in a startup. 1121 00:40:41,449 --> 00:40:48,329 It seems like the stakes are a little different when you're launching things to space where everything has to work. 1122 00:40:48,329 --> 00:40:53,730 You can't quite rush things the same way you would if you were just building an app. 1123 00:40:53,730 --> 00:40:55,500 How do you execute quickly? 1124 00:40:55,500 --> 00:41:00,380 How do you find that balance between executing quickly and building mission-critical components? 1125 00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:02,840 I mean, 1126 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,380 we worked ridiculously hard to get the first satellite out the door when we did. 1127 00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:08,470 That was through the night, 1128 00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:10,700 most of December last year. 1129 00:41:10,699 --> 00:41:16,039 We have certainly been moving quickly, 1130 00:41:16,039 --> 00:41:17,779 trying not to break things. 1131 00:41:17,779 --> 00:41:18,500 I'm amazed, 1132 00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:18,779 honestly, 1133 00:41:18,779 --> 00:41:20,229 the satellite is working as well as it is. 1134 00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:22,170 Don't be too amazed. 1135 00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:24,780 You knew it was going to work, 1136 00:41:24,779 --> 00:41:26,539 right? 1137 00:41:27,969 --> 00:41:29,649 I give huge credit to my co-founders. 1138 00:41:29,650 --> 00:41:30,849 They absolutely crushed it. 1139 00:41:30,849 --> 00:41:32,049 Yeah, 1140 00:41:32,050 --> 00:41:34,289 so... 1141 00:41:34,289 --> 00:41:42,130 Are there any big decisions you had to make where speed was a trade-off for reliability? 1142 00:41:42,130 --> 00:41:43,970 All the time. 1143 00:41:43,969 --> 00:41:44,189 Yeah, 1144 00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:44,690 all the time. 1145 00:41:44,690 --> 00:41:45,170 All the time? 1146 00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:47,570 Was there a big one that stands out where this was like... 1147 00:41:47,570 --> 00:41:49,490 There's maybe a testing schedule. 1148 00:41:49,489 --> 00:41:50,529 You can always do more testing, 1149 00:41:50,530 --> 00:41:51,810 and you always want to do more testing. 1150 00:41:51,809 --> 00:41:54,610 But you just don't have time. 1151 00:41:55,590 --> 00:41:56,289 Yeah. 1152 00:41:56,289 --> 00:41:58,050 Did that lead to tension, 1153 00:41:58,050 --> 00:42:00,090 conflict with your co-founders at some points, 1154 00:42:00,090 --> 00:42:00,769 where you were like, 1155 00:42:00,769 --> 00:42:01,019 "No, 1156 00:42:01,019 --> 00:42:02,320 it has to be on this timeline. 1157 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:02,530 No, 1158 00:42:02,530 --> 00:42:04,530 you can't have more time for testing, 1159 00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:05,250 or time for this, 1160 00:42:05,250 --> 00:42:06,039 or time for that"? 1161 00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:06,440 Yeah, 1162 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:07,159 sometimes, 1163 00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:08,049 to be honest. 1164 00:42:08,050 --> 00:42:08,400 Yeah. 1165 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:08,769 Yeah, 1166 00:42:08,769 --> 00:42:09,329 it's tough. 1167 00:42:09,329 --> 00:42:12,849 So how have you guys been managing your co-founder relationship, 1168 00:42:12,849 --> 00:42:13,349 like, 1169 00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:15,569 as things have gotten heated, 1170 00:42:15,570 --> 00:42:16,850 and the stakes have gotten higher, 1171 00:42:16,849 --> 00:42:18,130 especially closer to the launch? 1172 00:42:18,130 --> 00:42:18,670 Yeah, 1173 00:42:18,670 --> 00:42:19,329 I mean, 1174 00:42:19,329 --> 00:42:21,019 I think we worked amazingly well together, 1175 00:42:21,019 --> 00:42:21,519 to be honest. 1176 00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:22,059 And the reason, 1177 00:42:22,059 --> 00:42:22,449 I think, 1178 00:42:22,449 --> 00:42:25,889 is because we all have very distinct lanes. 1179 00:42:25,889 --> 00:42:28,929 Mine is commercial and fundraising, 1180 00:42:28,929 --> 00:42:30,210 things like that. 1181 00:42:30,210 --> 00:42:32,710 Ezra's is mechanical, 1182 00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:35,490 so satellite structure, 1183 00:42:35,489 --> 00:42:37,809 deployable solar panels and radiators, 1184 00:42:37,809 --> 00:42:40,279 satellite bus design, 1185 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,890 propulsion. 1186 00:42:41,889 --> 00:42:44,929 And then Adi is everything on the compute module. 1187 00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:50,150 So that's roughly how decision-making is split. 1188 00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:53,970 So that helps that we have distinct lanes. 1189 00:42:53,969 --> 00:43:01,689 I know you've mentioned in the past that you're counting on launch costs going down in terms of replacing terrestrial data centers. 1190 00:43:01,690 --> 00:43:03,809 But even if they were to stay as they are, 1191 00:43:03,809 --> 00:43:06,289 there are still like some great edge compute use cases. 1192 00:43:06,289 --> 00:43:09,409 If you were to only take advantage of the edge compute use cases, 1193 00:43:09,409 --> 00:43:12,049 how much does that limit the size of your business? 1194 00:43:15,110 --> 00:43:15,400 Well, 1195 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,970 instead of being a 100 trillion dollar business, 1196 00:43:17,969 --> 00:43:19,649 we might be like a 10 billion dollar business. 1197 00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:20,210 Oh, 1198 00:43:20,210 --> 00:43:20,929 man, 1199 00:43:20,929 --> 00:43:21,569 what a bummer. 1200 00:43:21,570 --> 00:43:25,000 It's not even a venture outcome. 1201 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:25,260 Like, 1202 00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:25,890 what are you doing? 1203 00:43:25,889 --> 00:43:28,089 That sounds wonderful. 1204 00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:31,809 I'm sure your investors love to hear that. 1205 00:43:31,809 --> 00:43:34,610 Speaking of investors, 1206 00:43:34,610 --> 00:43:35,890 fundraising, 1207 00:43:35,889 --> 00:43:39,809 how was it different for this company versus your previous company? 1208 00:43:42,230 --> 00:43:45,970 Fundraising was tricky before we got into YC and then it became a lot easier. 1209 00:43:45,969 --> 00:43:46,210 Yeah. 1210 00:43:46,210 --> 00:43:48,050 YC is great in that way. 1211 00:43:48,050 --> 00:43:48,780 Yeah. 1212 00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:50,210 How about you? 1213 00:43:50,210 --> 00:43:52,369 Did you ever try and raise without YC? 1214 00:43:52,369 --> 00:43:53,150 Yeah, 1215 00:43:53,150 --> 00:43:58,460 we did for maybe six to eight months before YC. 1216 00:43:58,460 --> 00:43:59,619 My co-founder and I, 1217 00:43:59,619 --> 00:44:02,299 we were raised in Alabama and we grew up there. 1218 00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:06,210 And so the investor ecosystem was nearly non-existent. 1219 00:44:06,210 --> 00:44:07,490 You tried to raise in Alabama. 1220 00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:08,500 Yeah. 1221 00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:08,860 Well, 1222 00:44:08,860 --> 00:44:09,110 look, 1223 00:44:09,110 --> 00:44:10,019 we were students. 1224 00:44:10,019 --> 00:44:12,449 We were still mechanical engineering students. 1225 00:44:12,449 --> 00:44:13,809 We didn't know better. 1226 00:44:13,809 --> 00:44:16,369 We were 20 when we started the company. 1227 00:44:16,369 --> 00:44:17,889 You don't sound like you're from Alabama. 1228 00:44:17,889 --> 00:44:18,469 Yeah. 1229 00:44:18,469 --> 00:44:20,769 I've lost the accent over time, 1230 00:44:20,769 --> 00:44:22,769 but it does come back when I go home. 1231 00:44:22,769 --> 00:44:25,650 And I used to have a very thick Southern accent. 1232 00:44:25,650 --> 00:44:26,019 Really? 1233 00:44:26,019 --> 00:44:27,969 I once went to a University of Alabama football game. 1234 00:44:27,969 --> 00:44:28,309 Oh, 1235 00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:28,929 yeah? 1236 00:44:28,929 --> 00:44:31,399 It was probably great energy. 1237 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:31,889 Did you like it? 1238 00:44:31,889 --> 00:44:32,769 Tuscaloosa. 1239 00:44:32,769 --> 00:44:34,130 Is it Tuscaloosa? 1240 00:44:34,130 --> 00:44:34,510 Yeah. 1241 00:44:34,510 --> 00:44:36,450 Tuscaloosa is where that school's at. 1242 00:44:36,449 --> 00:44:37,489 I went to the rival, 1243 00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:38,500 Auburn, 1244 00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:40,050 just south. 1245 00:44:40,050 --> 00:44:40,450 Yeah, 1246 00:44:40,449 --> 00:44:40,689 yeah, 1247 00:44:40,690 --> 00:44:40,920 yeah. 1248 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,369 But I have been to an Alabama game. 1249 00:44:42,369 --> 00:44:45,250 It's pretty incredible feeling. 1250 00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:45,980 It's amazing. 1251 00:44:45,980 --> 00:44:47,470 There's like 100, 1252 00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:50,280 000 people in the stadium and 400, 1253 00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:51,329 000 people tailgating. 1254 00:44:51,329 --> 00:44:54,369 And apparently it's been like that every game since 1980 or something. 1255 00:44:54,369 --> 00:44:56,449 It's a bit like in Europe, 1256 00:44:56,449 --> 00:45:00,129 if Barcelona played Madrid every weekend. 1257 00:45:01,989 --> 00:45:02,689 Yeah. 1258 00:45:02,690 --> 00:45:05,440 It's got like a cult-like following. 1259 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,420 Everyone's wearing clothes of Alabama or Auburn. 1260 00:45:09,420 --> 00:45:13,119 There are these two teams everywhere in the whole state. 1261 00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:14,529 And even the surrounding states, 1262 00:45:14,530 --> 00:45:15,480 you'll still see it. 1263 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:16,480 It's pretty intense. 1264 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:17,570 It's like a religion. 1265 00:45:17,570 --> 00:45:18,360 Yeah. 1266 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,210 It seems like it. 1267 00:45:20,210 --> 00:45:20,690 It's crazy. 1268 00:45:20,690 --> 00:45:22,610 I'm glad the footballers can play now. 1269 00:45:22,610 --> 00:45:24,289 What was that? 1270 00:45:24,289 --> 00:45:25,730 I'm glad the footballers can make money now. 1271 00:45:25,730 --> 00:45:27,090 They didn't use to be able to. 1272 00:45:27,110 --> 00:45:27,820 Yeah. 1273 00:45:27,820 --> 00:45:28,289 Yeah. 1274 00:45:28,289 --> 00:45:30,250 Glad to hear that as well. 1275 00:45:30,250 --> 00:45:33,889 But I'm glad that YC was helpful for you in the fundraising department. 1276 00:45:33,889 --> 00:45:35,329 Was it helpful in any other way? 1277 00:45:35,329 --> 00:45:36,319 YC is amazing. 1278 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:36,810 Yeah. 1279 00:45:36,809 --> 00:45:39,130 YC has been super helpful in every way, 1280 00:45:39,130 --> 00:45:40,280 basically. 1281 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,530 The network's amazing. 1282 00:45:42,530 --> 00:45:45,330 The fellow co-founders and the bachelor are great. 1283 00:45:45,329 --> 00:45:46,219 The partners are great. 1284 00:45:46,220 --> 00:45:47,890 Yeah, 1285 00:45:47,889 --> 00:45:48,529 it's great. 1286 00:45:48,529 --> 00:45:49,649 The advice they're giving is cool. 1287 00:45:49,650 --> 00:45:50,880 I'm biased, 1288 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,340 but I still have to ask. 1289 00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:53,990 Obviously, 1290 00:45:53,989 --> 00:45:56,289 it changed my life and the life of my co-founder. 1291 00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:59,250 And most of the founders I know who went through Y Combinator, 1292 00:45:59,250 --> 00:46:01,550 it was like a distinct before and after. 1293 00:46:01,550 --> 00:46:04,460 An after that was for the better. 1294 00:46:04,460 --> 00:46:07,079 So I still have to check. 1295 00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:08,969 But it was great having you on, 1296 00:46:08,970 --> 00:46:09,600 Philip. 1297 00:46:09,599 --> 00:46:12,399 Any parting words that you might give to young, 1298 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,789 aspiring founders looking to do something big, 1299 00:46:15,789 --> 00:46:18,360 take a huge swing in space exploration, 1300 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,100 perhaps, 1301 00:46:19,099 --> 00:46:19,750 or space, 1302 00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:21,250 or any other domain? 1303 00:46:21,269 --> 00:46:21,760 Yeah. 1304 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,070 Now's a great time. 1305 00:46:23,070 --> 00:46:26,200 It's still day zero in the space front as well. 1306 00:46:26,199 --> 00:46:32,859 So things are about to get wild in the space industry over the next decade with Starship and other developments. 1307 00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:35,570 So it's a good time to get in the space industry. 1308 00:46:35,570 --> 00:46:37,170 It's a great time. 1309 00:46:37,170 --> 00:46:38,210 All right, 1310 00:46:38,210 --> 00:46:38,610 Philip. 1311 00:46:38,610 --> 00:46:38,769 Well, 1312 00:46:38,769 --> 00:46:40,519 it's been wonderful having you on. 1313 00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:40,849 Take care. 1314 00:46:40,849 --> 00:46:42,079 Take care, 1315 00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:42,849 man.