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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson,
New York Times best selling

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author of The Horse Boy, The Long
Ride Home, and The Healing Land.

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Before I jump in with today's
guest, I just want to say a huge

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thank you to you, our audience,
for helping to make this happen.

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I have a request.

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If you like what we do, please
like, subscribe, tell a friend.

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It really helps us get this work done.

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As you might know from my
books, I'm an autism dad.

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And over the last 20 years,
we've developed several

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equine assisted, neuroscience
backed certification programs.

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If you'd like to find out more
about them, go to newtrailslearning.

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com.

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So without further ado,
let's meet today's guest.

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Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.

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I've got Melissa Connor here with me from
Holland in Michigan where she runs renew.

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And I was actually just there.

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It, and I was struck at Renew because
there was a higher than usual, higher

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than I'm used to seeing level of
equine care going on which I would

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like to see as the general standard.

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And so I thought I would ask Melissa
to come on and tell us how that

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evolved because as a lot of, you know,
I, I go around doing a lot of gigs

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in a lot of therapeutic places and
through nobody's fault, you know, the.

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Frequently the state of horses that
are being donated, well, maybe that

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is somebody's fault when they're being
donated, is you know, they often come in

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with stiffnesses injuries, arthritis, you
know, bangs and wear and tear, but then

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there often isn't much emphasis on rehab.

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And of course, as we all know, if a horse
is going to be giving wellbeing to a

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human, it has to have wellbeing to give.

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And simply being quiet,
of course, isn't enough.

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So really, I was quite
struck by this at at Renew.

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So I thought I'd ask Melissa to come
on and talk to us about it because

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we would have something to learn.

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So Melissa, thank you
for coming on the show.

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Tell us a little bit about
who you are and what you do.

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Melissa Connor: Sure.

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Thank you Rupert.

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It was so wonderful to have you at renew
just a few weeks ago, and it was an,

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an honor to introduce you to our horses
and our people and, and learn, learn

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the ticking equine integration method.

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And thank you for your high praise.

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It's it's, it's, it is rare to be
able to have someone kind of come and

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immerse in our center for a few days
long enough to, to notice those things.

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And so we, we highly value your
opinion and your, and your praise.

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We have 22 horses that live on
our farm in Holland, Michigan.

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We are on a 20 acre property.

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And we have been at this
location since 2020.

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We purchased the property in 2018 and.

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Made a plan to build it out.

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So there's a, a few things that
we've prioritized and personally

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I've tried to prioritize.

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So we are a therapeutic riding
center serving children and

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adults with disabilities.

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About half of them with autism.

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And we are an accredited
center with PATH International.

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And our, our instructors are certified.

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I have have been a therapeutic writing
instructor for 20 plus years and am a

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master instructor with PATH as well.

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One thing I tried, I've always
believed in having had horses

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since I was a little girl, was to
give them the best care possible.

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And as I was sharing with you,
that has evolved really as, as.

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I am continuing to learn, even though
I'm, you know, 50 plus years into life

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as a horse owner and 20 years into
this industry in particular, there's,

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there's so much to know and learn and
continue to learn and explore with

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horses that I don't feel like there's
a formula that just plain works.

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But a lot of it is listening to the
horses, inviting them into the work that

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we do, and then meeting their needs.

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So I would say, especially over the
last decade or so I have really learned

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from you and a lot of your colleagues.

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Some of the ones that stand out really
are mark Schiller, Josh Nichol, Dr.

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Steven Peters mark Rashid and,
and others about prioritizing the.

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Horses need friends, horses need
freedom, and horses need forage.

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And focusing on those three F's for
their wellbeing and keeping them happy.

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And then even just in the last six months
or so, not even just looking at horses

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wellbeing as as a scale, but even saying
what does it mean for them to thrive?

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Not just exist.

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Mm-hmm.

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Not just live, but how can they be just
like we want for our humans, we want

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our horses to be thriving in this work.

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So one thing I've really come to
believe in deeply is if a horse

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is not supposed to be a partner
in this work that we find out.

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What their vocation should be and
help make that possible for them.

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So they don't stay, we don't say,
this is the horse that showed up, so

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this is the horse we're gonna use.

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Even though the horse hates it and
the horse isn't thriving or loving

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their work, then we're gonna move
them on to, to something else.

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So I, I think, I love that all.

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We have a variety of horses that
have different personalities.

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They're different ages,
they're different breeds.

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But we have really emphasized
watching their body language,

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watching their physical fitness level.

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We're so excited to dive into the Teke
method, just to, to really help them

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with their conditioning, but we have had
conditioning plans that haven't been as

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intense as what we just learned with you.

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Definitely every horse gets ridden
by a, a competent rider once or

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twice a week in addition to the
therapy work that they're doing.

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So we've tried to prioritize these things.

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Some, some lunging, some groundwork.

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And then we give them, we
give them those three F's.

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We make sure that their friend groups
are set, and we have, I have a staff

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that does that, and we've built out
pasture groups and as we were building

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our property, we put shelters out.

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We put, we're in Michigan, so
we put automatic waterers out.

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We wanted to be able to leave
them outside as much as possible,

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which might seem ironic because
we just built a new barn, but.

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The barns are really for the
humans, not really for the horses.

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We need a place to bring them into,
you know, to get them ready to work

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with the equipment, to, to groom them
and brush them and care for them.

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So that's really what the barn is for.

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But of course, it's also just a for
them when they need to, to wait.

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So that's kind of the
overview I think of where.

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Our thinking in terms of our horse
care has evolved and then trying to,

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we're constantly trying to educate
the volunteers that come to our

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center, our participants as well.

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And then the, the staff just carries it
on and we try to prioritize continuing

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ed for our, our team because it's all,
which is why we were able to bring

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you in just to, to learn from you.

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But we're open to, we're open to
changing things if it doesn't work, not

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just going to get in doing something
because it's easiest for the humans.

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Try to take in the mindset of what's
best for the horse and we'll do

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that thing In terms of their care,

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Rupert Isaacson: was it always,
so, I mean, you, you grew up

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in horse country, Virginia.

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I used to work in Virginia, so Yeah, I, I
know it and it's, you know, a horse mecca.

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I.

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Many places I've been to in Virginia,
actually, the horses are kept really

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well because they do spend a lot of
time outside, even if they're hunters

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or competition horses or whatever.

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But I have noticed of course, over the
years that in many therapeutic barn horses

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is what one would call over stalled.

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And sometimes that can be simply
because of the overwhelming

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traffic that's coming through.

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As most therapy barn owners know
business is almost too good, you know?

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There are just so many people
with the need and it's very

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hard to turn people away.

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And this can end up in horses, you know,
standing in perhaps more than they should.

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And the idea of turning horses
out in groups, I, I've often seen

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resistance to that because saying,
well, what if, you know, they kick

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each other, or what if, or what if?

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And although, you know,
I usually say, well, I.

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They might, but in the same way
that kids in the playground might

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push each other over, but at the
same time, usually they don't.

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And the mental health is important
and this is what they need.

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You know, it's a, it's
a balance we have to do.

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You must have come, you know,
'cause you came up through the sort

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of ranks of the, of the sort of
orthodox therapeutic writing thing.

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There must have been an evolution
with, for, so can you, can you talk

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to us about where you began and then
sort of gradually how it changed?

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Because I think that would help a
lot of listeners who might be in

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situations where they're thinking,
yeah, you know, I, I could see that

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maybe we could make a change or should
make a change, but I'm not entirely

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sure how we might ch you know, begin
to change a, an ingrained system.

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So talk us through your evolution
and I think that will be useful.

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Melissa Connor: Oh, sure.

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I started in, well, grew up in Virginia.

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I grew up actually as a child
in Hunter Jumpers and four H.

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And we boarded our horses for a while,
and then my family had a, a small farm of

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our own where we did a lot of the chores.

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And so turnout was always something that
I grew up with horses kind of out during

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the day and in their stalls overnight.

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That was, that was, that's what I
remember from my earliest childhood.

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That was what you did, right?

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You feed them their green
breakfast in the stall, turn 'em

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out, bring 'em in for dinner.

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Grain install.

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And I, I think that that worked for sure.

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The horses got a good deal of
turnout and that really happened.

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Even I began as a volunteer at a
center in Williamsburg, Virginia, and

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that was really the practice there.

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But I, I did come in, when I started
there in 2005 as a volunteer, I

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noticed that there were a lot of
well-meaning people who didn't have

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a lot of horse experience, who were
drawn to this therapeutic riding world.

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And maybe some of the decisions
that they were making were well,

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everybody was trying to do the best.

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Everybody does their best until they
know better and then they do better.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, the as we didn't have, as,
that was a brand new center where

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I wasn't at the time they didn't,
they were building pastures but

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didn't have a lot of pastures.

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They were trying to onboard horses,
but only had the couple that had

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been donated, you know, that weren't,
weren't necessarily ideal for the job.

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And, and as I got in there and started
helping to mold and shape some of

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those, I've always come at this where
the world of equine assisted services,

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this world shouldn't get the leftovers
from the real equestrian world.

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And I noticed there was an attitude,
from those who were into competitive

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riding, whether it was dressage or western
pleasure or, or hunter jumper, where they

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thought, oh, this is therapeutic riding.

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We'll give them our, you know,
our, our lame horse who can't

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show anymore or we'll do this.

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And personally that always
offended me in the sense of,

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Rupert Isaacson: in so many ways.

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Yeah, in

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Melissa Connor: so many ways.

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But I thought, why That makes no
sense that the people that, that are

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approaching the partnering with horses.

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For their own wellbeing.

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What I think the equestrian wheel
doesn't know is they were getting some

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of the benefits from being with horses.

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The same benefits that we're trying to
extend to people with autism and people

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with cerebral palsy and people with

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good point with

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Melissa Connor: brain injury.

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So it's, it's, they are not more
important than the competitive.

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They are just us.

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So, I do think I was able, I, I was
able to be a part of that center and

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I became the operations manager and
kind of oversaw over the eight years

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that I was there in Virginia, the
onboarding of horses and, and we were

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able to recruit a team that thought
similarly to that, to that where let's

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do the best we can for this community
and that means increase our turnout.

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Excellent vet care, farrier care.

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Let's not get somebody's leftover
hay that they're given away because

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it got moldy and they don't want it.

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Let's invest in quality hay,
quality feed even chiropractic

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work if that makes a difference.

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And that's what a horse needs.

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So these things do cost money.

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They cost, they take time,
they take intentionality.

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So as I was learning the field in those
first really eight years or so at the

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center in Virginia, really prioritizing
without horses, we, we can't do our work.

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So we, they have to be a priority.

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They have to be invested in.

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And so then I moved to Michigan in 2013.

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Got to know, renew, which was a small
center at the time, and very small budget

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as well, working out of a boarding barn.

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And it was very similar.

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I remember the, my first trip to
the tech shop, local tech shop here

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in the western side of Michigan.

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I went with a friend and we were looking
at some of their consigned saddles, and I

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noticed several of them had broken trees.

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And they had a saddle fitter on staff and
I think I said something to them like, I'm

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pretty sure the tree on this one's broken.

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You might wanna consider something.

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She went, oh, well, we'll pass it
on to a therapeutic riding center.

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And I just remember being so upset I
had to like, leave the tack shop because

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I said, oh, please don't do that.

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And then was just so emotional I couldn't
you know, I struggled to be able to

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say why, and I thought we have to start
changing some attitudes and mm-hmm.

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Like, this is, it's still very much
there, there's still this thought

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of, of if it's a therapeutic writing
center, if it's a nonprofit well

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you must be hurting for money.

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So they should be grateful to get
our saddle with a broken tree.

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Or they should be grateful to get our
three-legged horse that, you know,

00:15:33.099 --> 00:15:33.999
isn't sounding, is that actually

00:15:33.999 --> 00:15:35.439
Rupert Isaacson: gonna
cost a fortune in Becca?

00:15:38.229 --> 00:15:40.089
Melissa Connor: So I think just
kind of flipping the whole thing

00:15:40.089 --> 00:15:42.549
over and saying, no, we need.

00:15:42.744 --> 00:15:45.114
As I know you, we learned
from you when you came.

00:15:45.114 --> 00:15:46.944
Like, our horses need to be conditioned.

00:15:46.944 --> 00:15:50.754
We owe it to them to be in top
physical shape, top mental shape.

00:15:50.934 --> 00:15:56.874
Our equipment needs to be that and so
much more because of what we're doing

00:15:56.874 --> 00:15:58.614
with our equipment and with our horses.

00:15:58.614 --> 00:16:02.214
And so the care of the horses
really has always, for me been a

00:16:02.214 --> 00:16:07.094
priority, but it's been a, a long,
slow journey and that I'm still on

00:16:07.094 --> 00:16:09.164
of learning and sharing kind of this

00:16:09.164 --> 00:16:09.284
Rupert Isaacson: stuff.

00:16:09.794 --> 00:16:09.854
Yeah.

00:16:09.854 --> 00:16:12.674
One, I don't know if you, if you're
at this point, I, I, I reached a point

00:16:12.674 --> 00:16:16.244
in Texas, 'cause you know, people
wanted to donate horses all the time

00:16:16.814 --> 00:16:22.554
and we took some, but and, but we
took ones that they didn't have to be.

00:16:23.484 --> 00:16:26.904
Always sound because as you know, a lot
of our work can be done on the ground too.

00:16:27.204 --> 00:16:30.714
So if a horse couldn't be ridden or had,
you know, kissing spine or something,

00:16:30.714 --> 00:16:34.284
but had this wonderful attitude and
this wonderful nature, we just rehab

00:16:34.284 --> 00:16:38.454
them as horses that you could work in
hand with, with an adult population

00:16:38.454 --> 00:16:39.894
perhaps that wasn't going to ride.

00:16:40.344 --> 00:16:46.944
But they could still be in their top
amazing shape within those parameters

00:16:46.944 --> 00:16:48.084
or something like that, you know?

00:16:48.444 --> 00:16:54.174
Or we could have horses that, you know,
we knew could only carry a certain weight.

00:16:54.204 --> 00:16:54.564
Okay.

00:16:54.564 --> 00:16:57.084
We, they were only get, but they
could still be in their top shape.

00:16:57.414 --> 00:17:05.364
But mostly actually I would buy, buy
or breed my own horses because as you

00:17:05.364 --> 00:17:10.324
say these horses are no less athletes
than horses in the competition world.

00:17:10.594 --> 00:17:14.534
And of course, all my horses did do
everything anyway, and still do they

00:17:14.534 --> 00:17:16.214
crossed the line between those worlds.

00:17:16.274 --> 00:17:16.694
Okay.

00:17:17.234 --> 00:17:18.704
But the.

00:17:19.739 --> 00:17:23.849
The idea that somebody might have,
I always thought was so strange

00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:27.209
that it's basically I, competition
rider have messed this horse up.

00:17:27.449 --> 00:17:28.829
You know, he's now injured.

00:17:29.069 --> 00:17:31.889
You know, they say, oh, we
don't know how it happened.

00:17:31.889 --> 00:17:32.939
And like, well, yeah, you do.

00:17:33.989 --> 00:17:37.439
There was a time when he wasn't lame
and there was a time when he was

00:17:37.439 --> 00:17:41.609
and do the best of what you were
doing and you probably can, you

00:17:41.609 --> 00:17:45.269
know, come out with an answer of
that's probably where it happens.

00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:47.549
He was probably overstressed
or overstressed.

00:17:47.699 --> 00:17:49.169
Now, it's not always like that.

00:17:49.169 --> 00:17:52.289
Of course some horses injure themselves
in the field and whatever, but you

00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:56.729
know, and I know that the vast majority
of competition horses get broken.

00:17:57.064 --> 00:17:57.284
Yes.

00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.309
And that doesn't mean they're not rehab.

00:18:00.149 --> 00:18:03.809
But the idea that, and of course that's
what the whole tech in program is, but.

00:18:05.219 --> 00:18:09.149
The idea that someone would say, oh,
well, now that I have broken this

00:18:09.149 --> 00:18:10.679
horse, here's what I'm gonna do.

00:18:10.679 --> 00:18:14.340
I'm gonna make you feel like you're, I'm
doing you a favor and I'm going to sort

00:18:14.340 --> 00:18:19.379
of lie to myself that I'm doing you a
favor by giving you a horse that is going

00:18:19.379 --> 00:18:24.600
to require considerable vet care if he's
going to, and, and rehab, skilled rehab.

00:18:24.629 --> 00:18:29.249
If he's going to go on and do anything,
rather than just retire in the field

00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:32.789
at home, which I could do, but I don't
really wanna feed that horse, even

00:18:32.789 --> 00:18:34.379
though I love this horse so much.

00:18:34.379 --> 00:18:35.069
That's what they always say.

00:18:35.159 --> 00:18:38.669
And I, you know, and he's given so
much and he deserves and blah, blah.

00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:40.679
I said, well, if he deserves so
much, why don't you keep him?

00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:41.519
Right?

00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:41.639
You know?

00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:44.129
Rupert Isaacson: And I remember the
last person who tried to give me a

00:18:44.129 --> 00:18:47.999
horse, like, this is actually quite,
quite a, a, a well known event.

00:18:48.449 --> 00:18:52.559
And I, I said to her, you know, then
if the horse is, if you love this

00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:56.580
horse, like you say you love your this
horse, keep him, you've got fields.

00:18:56.789 --> 00:18:57.179
You know?

00:18:57.184 --> 00:18:57.254
Yeah.

00:18:57.779 --> 00:18:59.969
Rupert Isaacson: And then it's like, well,
you know, I don't really wanna feed him.

00:18:59.969 --> 00:19:01.199
It's like, you know,
you want me to feed him?

00:19:01.199 --> 00:19:05.969
So what, so, and you want me to take
on the Vet Cat and you want, while I'm

00:19:05.969 --> 00:19:12.600
also a nonprofit, while I'm also needing
to prioritize spending on serving the

00:19:12.600 --> 00:19:16.979
populations we serve, which by the way,
could be one of your relatives, Mr.

00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:20.789
Or miss horse owner that's trying to palm
this, you know, broken horse off on me,

00:19:21.479 --> 00:19:21.689
right?

00:19:21.870 --> 00:19:26.340
Rupert Isaacson: So therefore, if
I take this horse, you have to help

00:19:26.370 --> 00:19:30.269
maintain him because you'd have to
do it anyway if they were at home.

00:19:30.629 --> 00:19:31.739
So what's the difference?

00:19:31.919 --> 00:19:34.439
Just this way they're
going to have more care.

00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.709
And I had, have actually had
some people go, you, you know

00:19:37.709 --> 00:19:38.699
what, actually, fair enough.

00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:41.610
And of course, plenty of others
who say thanks, but no thanks.

00:19:41.879 --> 00:19:44.489
Have you experimented with that at all?

00:19:44.620 --> 00:19:47.060
When people want to donate
because I, I think this is

00:19:47.060 --> 00:19:51.530
something a lot of therapeutic
program directors can relate to.

00:19:52.850 --> 00:19:53.600
Melissa Connor: Absolutely.

00:19:53.600 --> 00:19:54.110
We, I.

00:19:55.310 --> 00:19:59.090
It's always a fine line though, walking
with, dealing with horse owners.

00:19:59.625 --> 00:20:03.800
Rupert Isaacson: So I hadn't
noticed yet, myself included.

00:20:03.800 --> 00:20:04.010
Probably

00:20:07.065 --> 00:20:07.285
Melissa Connor: it.

00:20:07.290 --> 00:20:12.700
So, we own about half of our herd
and the other half are what we call

00:20:12.730 --> 00:20:14.440
here in the states, a free lease.

00:20:14.740 --> 00:20:14.860
Okay.

00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.250
I know our accountant hates that
term because a lease in the states,

00:20:18.280 --> 00:20:21.879
it implies money is exchanged
when money is not exchanged.

00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:22.030
Mm-hmm.

00:20:22.330 --> 00:20:24.970
And a free lease, it's
a, we cover the cost of.

00:20:25.290 --> 00:20:26.740
Of daily care.

00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:33.070
And in order to have the horse in the
program, but the, we cap put a cap

00:20:33.070 --> 00:20:38.820
on the vet, the vet care, that would
be considered normal or standard,

00:20:38.820 --> 00:20:42.120
what we would do, and then if the
owner wants above and beyond that

00:20:42.120 --> 00:20:43.800
would be what they would pay for.

00:20:43.800 --> 00:20:49.070
So we have written agreements we do
a trial period, we do a 60 day trial.

00:20:49.100 --> 00:20:52.190
We can extend it before we accept a horse.

00:20:52.310 --> 00:20:57.920
If we're accepting a horse for
donation, usually it's a circumstance

00:20:58.310 --> 00:21:03.740
where the owner can't, they're
paying board somewhere, right?

00:21:03.860 --> 00:21:06.409
And they usually don't
have another option,

00:21:06.740 --> 00:21:06.919
right?

00:21:06.919 --> 00:21:09.980
Melissa Connor: Not always the case, but
usually they don't have another option.

00:21:10.310 --> 00:21:14.840
Now, what has happened time and time
again is we have a free lease agreement

00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:20.240
with a horse where the horse is in
our program for a few years, and then.

00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:25.530
Normal course of aging, they
develop a condition or they, or a

00:21:25.530 --> 00:21:27.450
lameness that we can't overcome.

00:21:27.780 --> 00:21:33.169
Laminitis, heart murmur, something
where we stay in relationship with the

00:21:33.169 --> 00:21:38.250
owner and then we say, are you like our
agreement was that you would take the

00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:41.310
horse back, you know, at this point.

00:21:41.850 --> 00:21:44.370
And then they say, oh,
it's been five years.

00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:45.600
My life has changed.

00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:47.100
I can't take the horse back.

00:21:47.129 --> 00:21:53.220
Can you retire them, rehome them, and
then it, it, we, they assume that it's

00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:58.230
easy for us to function as a retirement
or even a rescue, which we aren't.

00:21:58.770 --> 00:22:00.689
So it's a, it's that fine line.

00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:06.659
So I've tried to make it a priority
to, to know our community well,

00:22:06.689 --> 00:22:08.399
just the horse people in our area.

00:22:08.399 --> 00:22:08.490
Mm-hmm.

00:22:08.939 --> 00:22:13.379
So we have been able to rehome
some horses just locally too, to

00:22:13.379 --> 00:22:16.919
local farms or people who are.

00:22:17.459 --> 00:22:21.060
Stakeholders with us, whether they're
volunteers or donors or they have

00:22:21.209 --> 00:22:25.169
those open fields and they're willing
to, to take, take somebody on.

00:22:25.169 --> 00:22:29.909
But it is interesting how the person that
says, I was laughing when you said, oh,

00:22:29.909 --> 00:22:31.800
I love them so much and I want them back.

00:22:32.219 --> 00:22:37.350
That I just had this exact conversation
with a, a person who said that five years

00:22:37.350 --> 00:22:38.909
ago when we got the horse, I love them.

00:22:38.909 --> 00:22:39.629
I want them back.

00:22:40.110 --> 00:22:43.230
And I called her about a month ago and
said, we're starting to make a plan

00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:45.929
for retiring your horse, and we will.

00:22:45.929 --> 00:22:48.330
And she said, oh, I'm, I can't take him.

00:22:48.719 --> 00:22:51.120
You know, and, and she
said, I can't take him.

00:22:51.120 --> 00:22:53.100
You have my pre permission to euthanize.

00:22:53.730 --> 00:22:54.959
Well, we said, well, we're not, they.

00:22:55.139 --> 00:22:58.500
I mean, that's not what we
are talking about right now.

00:22:59.520 --> 00:22:59.580
Yeah.

00:22:59.580 --> 00:23:02.909
Melissa Connor: So this particular
horse is dealing with Laminitis

00:23:02.909 --> 00:23:09.179
and a, and a heart murmur that is
escalating, but he's not at the end.

00:23:09.209 --> 00:23:09.270
Yeah.

00:23:09.300 --> 00:23:13.320
He's just, we were just
calling to kind of start the.

00:23:13.664 --> 00:23:17.804
Conversation that it's
moving in this direction.

00:23:17.804 --> 00:23:20.414
So it, it does get tricky.

00:23:20.444 --> 00:23:21.374
It really does.

00:23:21.374 --> 00:23:27.074
And that, that's where having the
ground programs and the equine assisted

00:23:27.074 --> 00:23:32.714
learning programs and the things where
the horse can still serve in that role.

00:23:32.894 --> 00:23:33.134
Yeah.

00:23:33.184 --> 00:23:38.734
Melissa Connor: It's, we can just at our,
because we are on 20 acres and we right

00:23:38.734 --> 00:23:41.074
now can accommodate about 24 horses.

00:23:41.104 --> 00:23:44.344
So we serve a lot of people every week.

00:23:44.344 --> 00:23:49.354
So I have try to vary the workload
as we assign the work, and so we

00:23:49.354 --> 00:23:53.074
just can only have so many horses
in, in that unmounted category.

00:23:53.494 --> 00:23:53.914
So, absolutely.

00:23:54.004 --> 00:23:54.724
Rupert Isaacson: No, absolutely.

00:23:54.724 --> 00:23:56.614
And I think, I think
everyone can relate to this.

00:23:56.914 --> 00:23:58.834
You know, I, I have a funny story.

00:23:58.884 --> 00:24:00.354
Sometimes it goes the other way.

00:24:00.984 --> 00:24:05.544
I remember being donated a, a very nice
touch, warm blood who the person couldn't.

00:24:06.774 --> 00:24:07.764
Sustain anymore.

00:24:08.364 --> 00:24:10.584
And he was a fabulous horse in every way.

00:24:11.184 --> 00:24:16.944
And so of course we kept his training
advancing while he was serving,

00:24:17.004 --> 00:24:18.924
you know, all of the autistic kids.

00:24:19.134 --> 00:24:24.774
So he ended up with a nice massage
and nice changes and the ex owner

00:24:24.774 --> 00:24:26.244
came and saw it and wanted him back.

00:24:27.439 --> 00:24:31.729
And and we hadn't done the
paperwork as well as we should

00:24:31.729 --> 00:24:33.319
have, and we had to let him go back.

00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.349
And he was a horse that we were
really relying upon at that point.

00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:37.399
Oh, that

00:24:37.399 --> 00:24:42.769
Rupert Isaacson: said, in retrospect I can
see that the mental health of that person

00:24:43.399 --> 00:24:45.589
would have been very negatively impacted.

00:24:46.069 --> 00:24:49.159
I think it had already been
negatively impacted at the time

00:24:49.159 --> 00:24:51.199
where she let him go by other things.

00:24:51.589 --> 00:24:56.689
And we sort of went in a bit of a
huddle, you know, at Horse point and

00:24:56.689 --> 00:24:58.674
went, well, it's not really fair, but.

00:25:00.889 --> 00:25:01.369
Okay.

00:25:01.399 --> 00:25:06.319
Because clearly it's going to have a very
negative impact if we don't let him go.

00:25:06.379 --> 00:25:08.119
But how are we gonna replace him?

00:25:08.929 --> 00:25:09.319
Right?

00:25:09.709 --> 00:25:12.889
So I then went and bought a very
nice Spanish horse instead who

00:25:12.919 --> 00:25:14.629
had a lot of the same qualities.

00:25:15.199 --> 00:25:23.239
It's, it's something I think, which
really, if listeners are coming into

00:25:23.239 --> 00:25:27.529
the early stages of their career with
this, you really, really, really do need

00:25:27.529 --> 00:25:32.479
to make sure your paperwork is pretty
cast iron and people like Melissa, I

00:25:32.479 --> 00:25:37.489
think you'd be up for mentoring people,
you know, in this kind of thing.

00:25:37.979 --> 00:25:39.929
Because yeah, one can get

00:25:39.989 --> 00:25:40.709
Melissa Connor: Absolutely.

00:25:40.919 --> 00:25:41.279
Yeah.

00:25:41.999 --> 00:25:42.090
Rupert Isaacson: And

00:25:42.090 --> 00:25:45.029
Melissa Connor: I, as, as you
know, Rupert, I have skin in the

00:25:45.029 --> 00:25:49.339
game in that, two of my horses
are free leased to my own program.

00:25:49.639 --> 00:25:53.569
So I am a, even though I'm the
executive director, I'm a horse

00:25:53.569 --> 00:25:55.849
owner, and so I also wear that hat.

00:25:56.089 --> 00:25:56.179
Yeah.

00:25:56.179 --> 00:26:01.319
I've signed the same agreements and
and I do, I love that you said that,

00:26:01.379 --> 00:26:03.599
you know, you improve the horse.

00:26:03.749 --> 00:26:05.069
I love that mentality.

00:26:05.069 --> 00:26:10.384
I would hope that our horse owners and
the horses unless there's, you know.

00:26:11.309 --> 00:26:16.499
Age aging and wear and tear that
maybe can't be rehabbed at a point.

00:26:16.499 --> 00:26:20.699
But the idea is that we watch
their body scores all the time.

00:26:20.699 --> 00:26:24.539
We monitor their workloads constantly.

00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:28.229
We ma try to make sure the horses
in that happy and thriving.

00:26:28.229 --> 00:26:33.119
So the horse owners generally
stay happy with us if they, you

00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.199
know, when they come and visit.

00:26:34.199 --> 00:26:35.789
And we make a point.

00:26:35.789 --> 00:26:37.949
And it does take time and intentionality.

00:26:38.009 --> 00:26:40.979
That's what a lot of people in
this world don't have, but to

00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:42.599
maintain those relationships.

00:26:43.574 --> 00:26:44.054
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:26:44.054 --> 00:26:45.074
And also to do that work.

00:26:45.074 --> 00:26:49.294
So that was actually intriguing to me
because as you know, when people are

00:26:49.294 --> 00:26:53.584
learning the Tke program, for example,
one of the draws about it is that it

00:26:53.644 --> 00:26:59.014
helps to end the time conflict between
how on earth am I going to condition

00:26:59.014 --> 00:27:01.474
these horses When I'm overwhelmed
with a number of clients I've got,

00:27:01.474 --> 00:27:03.039
and I'm sure staffed Dan, Dan, Dan.

00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:03.040
Mm-hmm.

00:27:03.514 --> 00:27:06.874
And of course with Taki we're saying,
okay, you do it all at the same time.

00:27:06.874 --> 00:27:09.784
The lunging session, the in hand
session, the long raining session is

00:27:09.784 --> 00:27:11.254
while you are serving your client.

00:27:11.254 --> 00:27:13.624
And therefore these problems go away.

00:27:13.684 --> 00:27:17.194
And then we also have the crazy
time thing, so the horses get to go

00:27:17.194 --> 00:27:19.054
nuts and express themselves as well.

00:27:19.059 --> 00:27:22.384
Which, but that can also be a client
session, you know, and there's

00:27:22.384 --> 00:27:24.544
lots we can learn in that fine.

00:27:24.634 --> 00:27:26.164
But of course not.

00:27:26.494 --> 00:27:29.374
That took even us and we're, you know,
seasoned horse people, it took us a

00:27:29.374 --> 00:27:30.934
while to come up with that formula.

00:27:31.404 --> 00:27:33.624
And we only came up with that
formula because we had found

00:27:33.624 --> 00:27:35.965
ourselves in that time crunch
and sort of had a little panic.

00:27:36.144 --> 00:27:39.084
And then them, the penny dropped,
but Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:27:39.084 --> 00:27:40.465
A lot of our clients can actually.

00:27:41.395 --> 00:27:44.034
Easily do this work and it
would be really empowering.

00:27:44.064 --> 00:27:45.655
Why don't we, and of course it took off.

00:27:46.165 --> 00:27:50.395
When I came to your barn a few weeks
ago and you pulled, there were three

00:27:50.395 --> 00:27:57.265
geldings that you pulled out and they
all displayed these like giant top lines.

00:27:58.075 --> 00:28:01.405
And this is my bug always
in therapeutic riding.

00:28:01.405 --> 00:28:03.295
It's like, where's the top line?

00:28:03.625 --> 00:28:07.825
And one of the reasons I'm so anal about
it obviously is because in horse boy

00:28:07.825 --> 00:28:10.135
method, we ride with a child in front.

00:28:10.975 --> 00:28:15.655
So we are having to think about
that small amount of extra weight.

00:28:16.195 --> 00:28:17.875
Usually these are small
children, it's minimal.

00:28:17.879 --> 00:28:20.605
But nonetheless, you know, we, we,
we really need to think about this.

00:28:20.785 --> 00:28:23.185
And because we have to put
horses into collection for

00:28:23.185 --> 00:28:24.745
the oxytocin effect to happen.

00:28:25.165 --> 00:28:28.045
We have to do a lot of training,
which involves a lot of top line.

00:28:28.045 --> 00:28:28.675
Okay, fine.

00:28:29.145 --> 00:28:33.675
One of the things which I often notice in
the therapeutic world is lack of top line.

00:28:34.155 --> 00:28:38.834
And it, I won't say it doesn't bother
me because that's where you sit.

00:28:39.235 --> 00:28:42.504
And it, particularly if the
horse is older and they usually

00:28:42.504 --> 00:28:45.475
are to neglect, the top line is,

00:28:48.774 --> 00:28:52.495
I don't wanna say negligent, but
it's hard to find another word

00:28:52.495 --> 00:28:55.705
because that's where the client sits.

00:28:55.705 --> 00:28:59.395
And the client is not going to
sit well, they often cannot sit.

00:28:59.395 --> 00:29:02.514
Well, that's the whole point, is
that we're giving them a horse

00:29:02.544 --> 00:29:07.014
which can accommodate their needs,
but it means we have to be extra

00:29:07.435 --> 00:29:08.665
vigilant about the horse's needs.

00:29:08.875 --> 00:29:12.115
So I'm usually going like a top line.

00:29:13.735 --> 00:29:16.014
You pull out these three horses, I'm like.

00:29:19.450 --> 00:29:23.050
Saying, you know, damn, in the southern
way, where, where you, you put a

00:29:23.050 --> 00:29:28.570
y in the middle dam, it was like,
wow, I'm not used to seeing that.

00:29:28.570 --> 00:29:31.540
And I'm like, okay, what's she doing?

00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:35.920
So for listeners, these, these
three ings came out and they

00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:37.300
were three distinct breeds.

00:29:37.379 --> 00:29:40.830
One was a apart Farian, one
was an Irish Old Irish draft.

00:29:41.070 --> 00:29:41.489
Gorgeous.

00:29:41.610 --> 00:29:41.669
Yeah.

00:29:41.879 --> 00:29:44.399
And the other was an
Anglo Norman, I think.

00:29:45.129 --> 00:29:45.879
Melissa Connor: A Spanish Norman.

00:29:45.939 --> 00:29:46.479
Spanish Norman.

00:29:46.479 --> 00:29:46.749
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:56.039
And they just came out glowing with
attitude and fun and spice and top line.

00:29:56.394 --> 00:29:57.029
And it was.

00:29:57.689 --> 00:29:59.189
I was like, okay, what are you doing?

00:29:59.249 --> 00:30:02.189
And this is before I've touched these
horses, by the way, listeners, I cannot

00:30:02.189 --> 00:30:06.149
claim any, we were there to teach em,
but I was like, okay, I dunno why I need

00:30:06.149 --> 00:30:09.299
to go to teach these people because,
you know, clearly I'm doing fine.

00:30:09.419 --> 00:30:12.929
So, so talk us through what
went into the building of those

00:30:13.139 --> 00:30:15.449
top lines as therapy horses.

00:30:15.449 --> 00:30:17.549
I think that would be something
really useful for listeners.

00:30:19.289 --> 00:30:20.309
Melissa Connor: Great question.

00:30:20.399 --> 00:30:26.119
So I, I have always thought, and
even from early days in this, in this

00:30:26.209 --> 00:30:32.510
work that the horses need for their
mental and physical wellbeing to be

00:30:32.540 --> 00:30:38.540
worked correctly under saddle in a
discipline that they were familiar with.

00:30:38.780 --> 00:30:43.379
So in, in the cases of those three
like Will, he's the Irish draft,

00:30:43.379 --> 00:30:47.340
he was an inventor who developed
a roar, couldn't compete anymore.

00:30:48.554 --> 00:30:54.764
His, his owner graciously thought of us,
reached out, was afraid he was too big.

00:30:54.824 --> 00:30:55.784
You know, we love him.

00:30:55.784 --> 00:30:57.735
He's a goofball, he's powerful.

00:30:57.735 --> 00:30:58.485
He's a goofball.

00:30:58.485 --> 00:31:02.784
He really shines in our veterans program.

00:31:02.814 --> 00:31:06.684
Our veterans are really drawn to him,
you know, big, big, powerful horse.

00:31:06.689 --> 00:31:06.979
Mm-hmm.

00:31:06.984 --> 00:31:15.214
But he gets at, I would say two, one
or two conditioning rides a week by my

00:31:15.214 --> 00:31:19.954
daughter is actually his exercise rider,
but just, she knows what she's doing.

00:31:19.984 --> 00:31:21.844
She knows the classical dressage.

00:31:21.994 --> 00:31:25.654
She knows how to get
him into self carriage.

00:31:25.684 --> 00:31:27.304
And so that keeps him strong.

00:31:27.874 --> 00:31:29.104
That keeps his back strong.

00:31:29.644 --> 00:31:34.964
Scout is our 12-year-old, f
Friesian cross crossed with a paint.

00:31:34.994 --> 00:31:36.404
So he's he's stunning people.

00:31:36.404 --> 00:31:37.184
Yeah, he's gorgeous.

00:31:37.754 --> 00:31:38.084
Yeah.

00:31:38.084 --> 00:31:39.614
He's, he that's almost

00:31:39.614 --> 00:31:41.054
Rupert Isaacson: everyone
wants, is like, I want that.

00:31:41.189 --> 00:31:41.429
Melissa Connor: I know.

00:31:42.764 --> 00:31:43.604
He's flashy.

00:31:43.634 --> 00:31:44.714
He's very flashy.

00:31:44.714 --> 00:31:46.264
And he same thing.

00:31:46.264 --> 00:31:51.244
We have one of our staff members who is
committed to working with him weekly.

00:31:51.784 --> 00:31:53.814
So, and then the same with Mick.

00:31:53.874 --> 00:31:54.834
Mick is the Spanish.

00:31:54.834 --> 00:31:57.984
Norman just came in in December,
but had a dressage background.

00:31:58.014 --> 00:31:59.664
He's in his early twenties.

00:31:59.934 --> 00:32:04.584
He looks the same as Scout or
Will who are in their early teens.

00:32:04.974 --> 00:32:11.044
But he had a dressage background
and the family was moving on.

00:32:11.384 --> 00:32:14.744
They were actually moving
south and he was donated to us.

00:32:14.744 --> 00:32:20.984
We happily accepted him because he came in
just not only mentally fit, but physically

00:32:20.984 --> 00:32:27.394
fit, but really we have developed,
conditioning program with riding.

00:32:27.554 --> 00:32:28.934
We do, we have a trainer.

00:32:28.934 --> 00:32:34.944
We have a local trainer who comes over
three Fridays a month and, and gives

00:32:34.944 --> 00:32:39.654
lessons to our staff or our volunteers
who are, are our ride conditioning

00:32:39.654 --> 00:32:43.884
riders to help everybody work on.

00:32:44.574 --> 00:32:45.834
With their horse.

00:32:46.284 --> 00:32:48.624
I love having outside eyes on her horse.

00:32:48.894 --> 00:32:50.634
She's an accomplished trainer.

00:32:50.634 --> 00:32:57.014
It's Erica Peterson is her name, and she,
I think she likes coming to our barn too,

00:32:57.014 --> 00:32:58.604
because we're not a competition barn.

00:32:58.634 --> 00:32:59.954
That's what she's used to training.

00:32:59.954 --> 00:33:03.704
She travels around and goes to
competition barns and she just enjoys

00:33:03.704 --> 00:33:07.724
coming to us because our goal is how
can we help our horses be better?

00:33:07.934 --> 00:33:09.734
How can we help them stay physically fit?

00:33:09.734 --> 00:33:13.664
How can we improve their flexibility,
their balance, their strength?

00:33:14.174 --> 00:33:20.104
So, and we just do this in the context of,
of, you know, a classical dressage lesson.

00:33:20.434 --> 00:33:23.374
I say classical dressage, but
you know, the, they could be

00:33:23.374 --> 00:33:26.614
riding an all-purpose saddle or a
western saddle or whatever, right?

00:33:26.614 --> 00:33:27.814
It's the, it's those same.

00:33:28.610 --> 00:33:29.539
Components.

00:33:29.570 --> 00:33:35.600
So that we've been doing that for a couple
of years, that has really helped to keep

00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:41.780
our, our crew of instructors who are
our staff and our volunteers who help us

00:33:41.899 --> 00:33:44.960
condition the horses help keep them sharp.

00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.160
It, it keeps their.

00:33:47.390 --> 00:33:51.890
Riding skills sharp, but of course
everybody comes in with a baseline.

00:33:52.100 --> 00:33:52.580
There.

00:33:52.610 --> 00:33:59.000
So this is, we ex the people who we have
approved to work with our horses, we make

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.950
sure that they know what they're doing.

00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:03.500
We don't, we have, believe
me, we get asked all the

00:34:03.500 --> 00:34:04.910
time, can I ride your horses?

00:34:04.910 --> 00:34:05.930
Can I ride your horses?

00:34:05.990 --> 00:34:09.230
No, we don't just let anybody
ride our horses for conditioning.

00:34:09.290 --> 00:34:11.180
They have to be approved.

00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:15.499
So, we have a, we have a method of
doing that and then we just make that

00:34:15.499 --> 00:34:19.170
a priority so the horses get that work.

00:34:19.170 --> 00:34:23.610
That's why I'm so excited to add, to keen
into what we're already doing, to just

00:34:23.610 --> 00:34:25.770
add the benefit, the groundwork, right?

00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.800
Rupert Isaacson: Well, right, because
you know, when, when one is relying upon

00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.040
riding, there are some issues there.

00:34:32.040 --> 00:34:36.720
One is the rider has to be competent to
work a horse over the back, obviously.

00:34:36.720 --> 00:34:36.780
So.

00:34:37.605 --> 00:34:39.255
Most riders dunno how to do that.

00:34:39.764 --> 00:34:43.245
The riders that do know how to do that
may or may not be in your program.

00:34:43.875 --> 00:34:44.205
Right.

00:34:44.745 --> 00:34:47.475
And then of course, it, it, it, it's
whether or not the horse can be ridden.

00:34:47.725 --> 00:34:53.125
And it also, if, if we're relying upon
riding, then even if you have those

00:34:53.125 --> 00:34:56.364
riders in your program, as you, as
you've pointed out, only a very small

00:34:56.380 --> 00:34:58.765
number of your personnel can do that.

00:34:58.765 --> 00:35:01.435
Whereas with the lunging and
the long reigning, obviously we

00:35:01.435 --> 00:35:02.935
can now get everybody doing it.

00:35:03.174 --> 00:35:03.745
Um Right.

00:35:03.955 --> 00:35:06.745
Regardless of their
equestrian skill, but Right.

00:35:07.450 --> 00:35:10.290
If you're in the equine assisted
field, or if you're considering

00:35:10.290 --> 00:35:14.210
a career in the equine assisted
field, you might want to consider

00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:18.550
taking one of our three neuroscience
backed equine assisted programs.

00:35:18.610 --> 00:35:24.190
Horseboy method, now established
for 20 years, is the original

00:35:24.785 --> 00:35:31.095
Equine assisted program specifically
designed for autism, mentored by and

00:35:31.095 --> 00:35:33.765
developed in conjunction with Dr.

00:35:33.765 --> 00:35:36.645
Temple Grandin and many
other neuroscientists.

00:35:36.985 --> 00:35:40.255
We work in the saddle
with younger children.

00:35:40.750 --> 00:35:45.700
Helping them create oxytocin in their
bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain.

00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:47.800
It works incredibly well.

00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:49.520
It's now in about 40 countries.

00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:50.980
Check it out.

00:35:51.660 --> 00:35:55.810
If you're working without horses,
you might want to look at movement

00:35:55.820 --> 00:35:59.190
method, which gets a very, very
similar effect, but can also be

00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:00.940
applied in schools, in homes.

00:36:01.140 --> 00:36:06.130
If you're working with families, you can
give them really tangible exercises to do

00:36:06.130 --> 00:36:07.670
at home that will create neuroplasticity.

00:36:09.025 --> 00:36:10.305
when they're not with you.

00:36:10.815 --> 00:36:14.255
Finally, we have taquine
equine integration.

00:36:14.615 --> 00:36:17.235
If you know anything about our
programs, you know that we need a

00:36:17.235 --> 00:36:21.235
really high standard of horsemanship
in order to create the oxytocin

00:36:21.265 --> 00:36:25.555
in the body of the person that
we're working with, child or adult.

00:36:25.995 --> 00:36:29.335
So, this means we need to train
a horse in collection, but this

00:36:29.355 --> 00:36:33.595
also has a really beneficial
effect on the horse's well being.

00:36:33.795 --> 00:36:38.085
And it also ends your time conflict,
where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how

00:36:38.085 --> 00:36:41.385
am I going to condition my horses and
maintain them and give them what they

00:36:41.385 --> 00:36:44.480
need, as well as Serving my clients.

00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:49.220
Takine equine integration aimed
at a more adult client base

00:36:49.550 --> 00:36:51.200
absolutely gives you this.

00:36:51.260 --> 00:36:53.690
That brings me actually to
another question, which is

00:36:53.770 --> 00:36:55.030
I know how busy you are.

00:36:55.150 --> 00:37:00.970
Finding the time to get the horses ridden
over the back in this way is not easy.

00:37:01.210 --> 00:37:02.920
How do you manage that time?

00:37:04.015 --> 00:37:05.935
Melissa Connor: That's,
that's another great question.

00:37:05.935 --> 00:37:08.695
And we really blocked
out one morning a week.

00:37:08.845 --> 00:37:12.385
So we don't do programming
on Friday mornings.

00:37:12.385 --> 00:37:15.085
That's where it, that's
where it landed for us.

00:37:15.145 --> 00:37:16.495
That's our conditioning time.

00:37:16.675 --> 00:37:20.755
And so we just have it
blocked out on our schedule.

00:37:20.815 --> 00:37:23.095
We don't pro, we don't provide services.

00:37:23.095 --> 00:37:23.125
Okay.

00:37:23.185 --> 00:37:27.475
Now, every now and then, there's a
special thing where we have to shift.

00:37:27.475 --> 00:37:32.675
That's why I say it's about three Fridays
a month that, that, that actually happens.

00:37:32.735 --> 00:37:35.675
And then those, we assign person to horse.

00:37:35.735 --> 00:37:40.565
So, you know, I'm assigned a horse,
various people are assigned a horse.

00:37:40.595 --> 00:37:44.645
If we can't get to that horse
that week, like travel meetings.

00:37:45.355 --> 00:37:49.825
It's our responsibility to assign,
to get, make sure somebody else

00:37:50.095 --> 00:37:52.525
works the horse so that they get it.

00:37:52.525 --> 00:37:56.485
We have a, we have a checklist, you
know, we have a Google document.

00:37:56.485 --> 00:37:57.865
We all go in and write notes.

00:37:57.895 --> 00:38:02.515
You know, if somebody didn't get a
canner lead or if somebody was stiff in

00:38:02.515 --> 00:38:04.165
one direction, we make notes on that.

00:38:04.225 --> 00:38:09.565
And all of us who are conditioners
can see what we're doing with with our

00:38:09.565 --> 00:38:13.675
horses and with each other's horses and
make suggestions and help each other.

00:38:14.125 --> 00:38:18.465
But like you said, it is, there's a
baseline of riding ability and that

00:38:18.495 --> 00:38:23.565
that is something that we have struggled
with, but we also want to develop and,

00:38:23.775 --> 00:38:24.975
Rupert Isaacson: well,
that, that's the question.

00:38:25.305 --> 00:38:29.325
Again, most places don't
have access to those riders.

00:38:29.535 --> 00:38:31.785
How did you okay.

00:38:31.785 --> 00:38:35.835
Your daughter's part of the program
granted, but nonetheless, I mean,

00:38:35.895 --> 00:38:37.995
you're lucky that she enjoys riding.

00:38:38.355 --> 00:38:38.865
But.

00:38:40.225 --> 00:38:43.605
Even with that with that many horses,
it's, it's very difficult to find

00:38:43.605 --> 00:38:48.645
that number of people anywhere who
have the ability, you know, if one's

00:38:48.645 --> 00:38:51.645
lucky, if one finds one or two,
you know, let alone five or six.

00:38:51.915 --> 00:38:56.385
So how do you, how do you find those good
riders and bring them into your program?

00:38:58.425 --> 00:38:59.470
Melissa Connor: Such a good question.

00:38:59.985 --> 00:39:04.155
I wish I, I wish I knew the answer other
than, here's, I'll give you my best

00:39:04.155 --> 00:39:08.875
answer, which is, I think because we
and as the leader of the organization,

00:39:08.875 --> 00:39:11.005
I've tried to set it as a priority.

00:39:11.725 --> 00:39:15.955
I think we set the bar where we
want the bar to be and then wait

00:39:15.955 --> 00:39:18.625
for people to come meet us there.

00:39:18.775 --> 00:39:18.865
Mm-hmm.

00:39:19.105 --> 00:39:20.455
So it's not a perfect system.

00:39:20.545 --> 00:39:23.985
Even, even now when I tell you
we have, we have, 22 horses.

00:39:23.985 --> 00:39:26.745
Well, I'll take out the minis, you
know, 'cause we don't ride the minis,

00:39:27.105 --> 00:39:31.765
but, so say we have 18 horses that
need to get conditioned every week.

00:39:31.795 --> 00:39:34.615
I think we have 12
approved riders currently.

00:39:34.915 --> 00:39:35.230
That's a lot.

00:39:35.870 --> 00:39:38.035
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, I think
a lot of places would dream of

00:39:38.035 --> 00:39:39.205
having that many good riders.

00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:39.310
Yeah.

00:39:39.925 --> 00:39:40.255
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

00:39:40.525 --> 00:39:45.765
We have we have nine instructors, which
is also a high number of instructors.

00:39:46.195 --> 00:39:50.065
Not saying every instructor is in
a different spot in their career.

00:39:50.545 --> 00:39:50.575
Mm.

00:39:50.575 --> 00:39:50.905
But

00:39:50.905 --> 00:39:54.715
Melissa Connor: every instructor has
come in with an equestrian background.

00:39:54.715 --> 00:39:57.685
So they've, we always encourage them.

00:39:57.775 --> 00:40:00.475
If people come to me and say, I
wanna be an instructor, I usually

00:40:00.475 --> 00:40:02.155
say, go take writing lessons.

00:40:02.455 --> 00:40:04.285
Go like, what is your background?

00:40:04.345 --> 00:40:10.795
Because you, you need five plus years of
writing instruction with a good trainer.

00:40:11.575 --> 00:40:14.365
Usually at another barn riding
different horses, not, not

00:40:14.365 --> 00:40:16.105
starting on our therapy horses.

00:40:16.735 --> 00:40:16.795
Yeah.

00:40:16.795 --> 00:40:22.495
And get your base level of skills
so that you know what that feel is.

00:40:22.555 --> 00:40:25.435
You understand what balance is.

00:40:25.435 --> 00:40:30.935
They understand how the horse moves they
understand the weight shifts that happen,

00:40:30.935 --> 00:40:35.555
the bending that needs to happen, that
crossing over, bearing weight on that

00:40:35.555 --> 00:40:42.285
inside hind, all the things that, that you
bring, you brought to us in groundwork.

00:40:42.825 --> 00:40:46.665
The hope is that our, our conditioning
riders have that, and then we,

00:40:47.505 --> 00:40:49.485
they're, they start as volunteers.

00:40:49.485 --> 00:40:53.315
I think every person that we've hired
on our staff maybe with one exception

00:40:53.315 --> 00:40:57.305
because she came from outta state, but had
started with us as a volunteer and we get

00:40:57.305 --> 00:40:59.735
to know them and we see their work ethic.

00:40:59.735 --> 00:41:04.405
We see their abilities and then their,
and then their, over time have been hired.

00:41:04.405 --> 00:41:09.015
We have we have a staff of 13 right now.

00:41:09.015 --> 00:41:12.405
Not everybody is a rider
and that's completely fine.

00:41:12.455 --> 00:41:16.085
But they participate in the program or
are responsible for different parts of

00:41:16.085 --> 00:41:17.645
the program in, in some way or another.

00:41:17.645 --> 00:41:23.105
And then that's circle gets bigger with
that handful of volunteers that we find.

00:41:23.435 --> 00:41:27.515
So I, I have I'll give you an
example of a good friend of mine.

00:41:27.515 --> 00:41:31.835
I met her soon after I, I
moved here to this area.

00:41:31.945 --> 00:41:33.175
But she was a trainer.

00:41:33.295 --> 00:41:34.255
She was a trainer.

00:41:34.255 --> 00:41:38.185
She's now doing something else, working in
schools, actually in a autism classroom.

00:41:38.665 --> 00:41:41.215
But she exercises our horses.

00:41:41.245 --> 00:41:45.235
In fact, she exercises Mick,
that Spanish Norman, but.

00:41:45.640 --> 00:41:49.870
She was a person hanging out with
an, she's an incredible rider,

00:41:49.870 --> 00:41:53.260
understands all of those things,
but doesn't currently own a horse

00:41:53.260 --> 00:41:54.760
had kind of moved out of that world.

00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:59.020
And so the gift of her coming
back into our program and she can

00:41:59.020 --> 00:42:00.790
be a conditioning rider for us.

00:42:00.850 --> 00:42:05.230
Like there's, you just gotta find
those people and it's not easy, but

00:42:05.230 --> 00:42:09.970
I think when we set the bar and build
those relationships, it, it will come.

00:42:10.490 --> 00:42:13.010
Rupert Isaacson: It, there's also,
sometimes it can be a matter of geography.

00:42:13.090 --> 00:42:16.090
I've been traveling to that Grand
Rapids, Michigan area for a couple

00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:21.010
of years now, and I've been, first I
was surprised and I'm very, in a very

00:42:21.010 --> 00:42:27.340
pleasant way by the kind of level of
education of a lot of riders in that area.

00:42:27.340 --> 00:42:28.420
It was very interesting to me.

00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:33.330
You know, we both know, for example
Leanna tank who, which also just

00:42:33.330 --> 00:42:36.830
done a podcast with who came and
obviously was part of this training.

00:42:36.830 --> 00:42:37.910
She's in Grand Rapids and.

00:42:39.185 --> 00:42:40.115
She in her barn.

00:42:40.115 --> 00:42:41.855
There's a very high
level of knowledge there.

00:42:41.855 --> 00:42:44.795
And I was, you know, you expect
these things in places like Northern

00:42:44.795 --> 00:42:49.445
Virginia or certain parts of the
Carolinas or around the Denver area,

00:42:49.445 --> 00:42:51.095
you know, places that are known hubs.

00:42:52.505 --> 00:42:55.295
Do you think that, is Western
Michigan just a particularly good

00:42:55.295 --> 00:43:00.665
hub, or do you have a particularly
good way of just attracting these

00:43:00.665 --> 00:43:02.615
people and, and finding them?

00:43:02.615 --> 00:43:06.725
Because I've gotta admit, when I was
in Texas, it was, it was tough to find.

00:43:08.495 --> 00:43:08.645
Melissa Connor: Hmm.

00:43:08.650 --> 00:43:13.655
I, I do think there's, there, there
probably is a, something with a geography.

00:43:13.655 --> 00:43:13.685
I.

00:43:14.930 --> 00:43:20.450
And these hubs, it, it, it, this,
this part where I am, and of course

00:43:20.510 --> 00:43:24.050
I grew up riding Hunter jumpers
as an adult, have ridden dressage.

00:43:24.380 --> 00:43:29.840
There are a lot of dressage trainers in
our area, so now they're not all of the

00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:34.580
same caliber because again, anybody can
call themselves a dressage trainer, start

00:43:34.580 --> 00:43:36.050
a website, throw it out there, right?

00:43:36.350 --> 00:43:36.440
Yes.

00:43:36.590 --> 00:43:41.230
Melissa Connor: So I, I have
noticed just as I've gotten to know

00:43:41.230 --> 00:43:45.310
people, that there's people that
I resonate with more than others.

00:43:45.420 --> 00:43:52.230
And so I think trying to again, it
goes, kind of goes back to building

00:43:52.230 --> 00:43:53.730
those relationships, but Right.

00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.760
Letting them know what we're looking for.

00:43:56.790 --> 00:44:00.330
Even the, the trainers in our
area, but maybe because we're

00:44:00.330 --> 00:44:04.650
in a, a higher dressage area in
this greater Grand Rapids area.

00:44:05.250 --> 00:44:08.070
There is a lot, there are a
lot of people, there's a lot of

00:44:08.070 --> 00:44:10.050
trail riders in our area too.

00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:16.050
And, and I have met, and even in the
process of trying to mentor people

00:44:16.650 --> 00:44:21.210
in therapeutic riding sometimes I'm
surprised people who say they're lifelong

00:44:21.210 --> 00:44:25.140
riders or I've been riding for 40
years and they don't know how to post

00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:29.910
the trot, you know, or they don't know
how, because they hop on their horse

00:44:29.910 --> 00:44:33.330
in their backyard and it'll go off on
a 10 mile trail ride through the woods

00:44:33.330 --> 00:44:35.610
and come back and they didn't fall off.

00:44:35.610 --> 00:44:38.100
So that was, that was,
that's the extent of it.

00:44:38.100 --> 00:44:43.200
So there's, there's still a range,
but I, I do think there is an emphasis

00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:45.290
on classical dressage in our area.

00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:48.980
And I do think that that helps that
there, that trickle down effect

00:44:48.980 --> 00:44:52.990
of just understanding the movement
of the horse, understanding the

00:44:52.990 --> 00:44:54.970
muscular development and how they, I.

00:44:55.555 --> 00:44:56.785
Power themselves.

00:44:56.845 --> 00:45:02.095
And all of that feeds into what we're
talking about, having that nice top

00:45:02.095 --> 00:45:07.625
line, having happy horses and horses
that are able to then do this work.

00:45:07.655 --> 00:45:12.035
But I try to prioritize knowing
people because those are the

00:45:12.035 --> 00:45:16.385
pipelines for the horse kinds of
horses we want in our program.

00:45:16.925 --> 00:45:19.625
And so people need to trust you.

00:45:19.895 --> 00:45:22.205
People need to know about renew.

00:45:22.235 --> 00:45:23.795
People need to know who we are.

00:45:23.795 --> 00:45:27.945
People need to know about our high
standard of care and our conditioning.

00:45:27.945 --> 00:45:31.065
And so these are
conversations we try to have.

00:45:31.095 --> 00:45:35.205
I'm always surprised when they
seem surprised by those things.

00:45:35.235 --> 00:45:35.445
Yeah.

00:45:35.445 --> 00:45:39.555
I just think they're not educated
about our equine assisted world.

00:45:40.485 --> 00:45:40.755
So true.

00:45:41.445 --> 00:45:44.595
Rupert Isaacson: Which is getting
better, but we all, I think, can

00:45:44.595 --> 00:45:49.775
admit that, we are bringing it up
from a place where perhaps it wasn't

00:45:49.775 --> 00:45:50.975
as good as it could have been.

00:45:52.325 --> 00:45:52.445
Right?

00:45:52.445 --> 00:45:53.855
But it gets better year by year.

00:45:53.975 --> 00:45:58.765
The, and I can picture a lot of
listeners now scribbling down, recruit

00:45:58.765 --> 00:46:00.925
my writers from Grand Rapids era.

00:46:00.925 --> 00:46:03.385
You know, Melissa's there two years now.

00:46:03.390 --> 00:46:05.755
I, I just don't seem to be able to
find the riders I used to be able

00:46:05.755 --> 00:46:07.855
to feel to Texas to work here.

00:46:08.255 --> 00:46:10.745
Melissa Connor: No, I'll tell, I'll
tell you something else about this area.

00:46:10.985 --> 00:46:14.285
People love this part of the
country and they don't leave.

00:46:15.065 --> 00:46:18.215
Maybe they'll leave for winter, you
know, the, the snowbirds go south.

00:46:18.365 --> 00:46:18.425
Yeah.

00:46:19.415 --> 00:46:23.765
But there is when I moved
here from Virginia and, and

00:46:23.875 --> 00:46:25.945
there's not a lot of turnover.

00:46:25.975 --> 00:46:29.005
People tend, once they live
here, tend to stay here.

00:46:29.005 --> 00:46:31.345
And it's a, it's a, it's a great place.

00:46:31.345 --> 00:46:33.805
Just that, you know, we have the
lake, we have the lake shore.

00:46:33.805 --> 00:46:33.925
Mm-hmm.

00:46:34.565 --> 00:46:39.305
There's land I, I might have shared
with you, I love the area where I live

00:46:39.305 --> 00:46:42.425
because I'm 10 minutes from absolutely
everything that I need in my life.

00:46:42.425 --> 00:46:43.355
A 10 minute drive.

00:46:43.385 --> 00:46:47.225
So I don't really have to,
you know, it's not a stressful

00:46:47.465 --> 00:46:49.355
place to live in that sense.

00:46:49.355 --> 00:46:52.505
And there's plenty of open
farmland still around for people

00:46:52.505 --> 00:46:53.885
who look looking for horse farms.

00:46:53.885 --> 00:46:54.275
So

00:46:54.335 --> 00:46:55.175
Rupert Isaacson: it's very true.

00:46:55.325 --> 00:46:58.235
It's very true in the real estate
prices are attractive folks.

00:46:58.505 --> 00:46:58.595
Mm-hmm.

00:46:58.785 --> 00:46:59.655
As is the landscape.

00:46:59.895 --> 00:47:01.575
But you do have to contend with February.

00:47:01.945 --> 00:47:02.035
Yes.

00:47:02.380 --> 00:47:02.620
Yeah.

00:47:03.640 --> 00:47:06.700
Okay, so down to the
horse welfare aspect too.

00:47:06.700 --> 00:47:10.330
One of the other things that really struck
me when I came to you was the horses

00:47:10.330 --> 00:47:14.890
live out, as you say, you, you had built
this very beautiful barn which smelled

00:47:14.890 --> 00:47:16.960
great, of new pine wood and everything.

00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:20.460
And had no horses in it because the horses
were all outside and that was great.

00:47:20.940 --> 00:47:23.490
You also grew up though with
horses being stalled and stable.

00:47:23.490 --> 00:47:26.040
So at what point did you
begin to make that shift?

00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.100
And, and because it's, it's
quite a big one to make.

00:47:29.100 --> 00:47:32.910
I think a lot of us grew up
with horses being stalled.

00:47:33.040 --> 00:47:36.940
It was a hard habit to break, you
know, I, I broke it myself at a certain

00:47:36.940 --> 00:47:40.780
point, but I do remember a certain
amount of internal resistance again.

00:47:40.780 --> 00:47:45.220
But it's quite nice to have the horse
in the, but then I just saw how happy my

00:47:45.220 --> 00:47:48.520
horses were when they were just in that
perma herd and I was like, okay, fine.

00:47:48.850 --> 00:47:49.390
They're gonna be out.

00:47:49.390 --> 00:47:49.510
Yeah.

00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:53.140
Rupert Isaacson: But so talk
us through how that evolved.

00:47:53.190 --> 00:47:55.590
'Cause you don't see it in
a lot of therapeutic places.

00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:01.540
Melissa Connor: Really, I feel like
I discovered it in a, in a sense by

00:48:01.540 --> 00:48:07.190
accident because like I said, I moved
here from Virginia, used to having horses

00:48:07.190 --> 00:48:09.800
stalled at night, or at least shelter.

00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:14.550
I had, I had my horses at home and they
were in overnight and out during the

00:48:14.550 --> 00:48:17.100
day, which is nice to do in Virginia.

00:48:17.100 --> 00:48:21.720
We would reverse the turnout in the
hot, hot, hot, humid summer, you know,

00:48:21.720 --> 00:48:26.530
where they're out overnight and in
under fans during the day in Michigan.

00:48:26.830 --> 00:48:31.000
It's, it, we didn't reverse the
turnout really just kind of had 'em.

00:48:31.080 --> 00:48:32.910
So I moved here with that mentality.

00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:37.860
I think it happened over time
and sort of out of necessity as.

00:48:38.850 --> 00:48:44.010
Renew was originally located, literally
across the street from where I live.

00:48:44.130 --> 00:48:45.840
There's a boarding barn across the street.

00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:49.230
We were working, we were
had horses boarded there.

00:48:49.620 --> 00:48:50.760
I had horses at home.

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.890
I would walk them across the
street to go to work and, and

00:48:53.890 --> 00:48:55.870
be part of the, the program.

00:48:56.445 --> 00:48:59.440
And we had a limited number of stalls.

00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:03.950
And I, we had an agreement with
after I'd been here a year or

00:49:03.950 --> 00:49:08.720
two, we made an agreement with the
property owners to lease three acres.

00:49:08.720 --> 00:49:11.120
And we really kind of had our own pasture.

00:49:11.580 --> 00:49:16.920
And we had a small covered arena
where we could do lessons and we threw

00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:18.480
up a couple of stalls over there.

00:49:19.110 --> 00:49:22.530
Our program was growing
so rapidly we had more.

00:49:23.505 --> 00:49:27.135
Horses and more people to
serve than we had room for.

00:49:27.405 --> 00:49:27.465
Hmm.

00:49:27.555 --> 00:49:33.645
So, so I, we started kind of rotating
pastures or leaving them out as much

00:49:33.645 --> 00:49:37.485
as possible really with the intent
of we could serve more people.

00:49:37.545 --> 00:49:38.505
Now this was, I.

00:49:39.435 --> 00:49:45.105
12 years ago or so, and the horses were
doing great, being out all the time.

00:49:45.345 --> 00:49:49.665
So I, I, we were just noticing,
you know, our older guys,

00:49:49.665 --> 00:49:50.895
it's better for them to move.

00:49:50.895 --> 00:49:51.825
They're happier.

00:49:52.305 --> 00:49:55.665
And even the younger ones coming in, they
were happier in their pasture groups.

00:49:56.025 --> 00:49:59.205
So we had a couple different
options over there.

00:49:59.205 --> 00:50:00.495
We had a smaller paddock.

00:50:00.945 --> 00:50:04.965
We added on, we had one big field and
we added on another field, but we had

00:50:04.965 --> 00:50:10.935
some gates, you know, we could close
and kind of, so we just shifted to

00:50:10.935 --> 00:50:13.365
where they were out almost all the time.

00:50:13.635 --> 00:50:17.055
So if they were in a stall, there was
a reason for them to be in a stall.

00:50:17.055 --> 00:50:19.875
Either it was they were waiting
for a lesson, they were waiting for

00:50:19.875 --> 00:50:23.275
the vet, they were waiting for the
farrier, you know, or even had a

00:50:23.275 --> 00:50:27.235
horse that we got who had equine.

00:50:27.235 --> 00:50:28.135
Narcolepsy.

00:50:28.705 --> 00:50:28.825
Rupert Isaacson: Oh.

00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:30.880
Is one of those.

00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:31.270
Yes.

00:50:31.300 --> 00:50:31.600
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

00:50:32.290 --> 00:50:35.170
And our vet said, keep him outside.

00:50:35.350 --> 00:50:38.350
He's not, he was not comfortable.

00:50:39.550 --> 00:50:40.960
Basically he would not sleep.

00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:44.350
We were bringing him in every night and
he was sleep deprived 'cause he wasn't

00:50:44.350 --> 00:50:45.880
comfortable sleeping in his stall.

00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:45.910
Ah.

00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:51.350
He was a big, he was a big guy and our
stalls weren't huge and so we had to

00:50:51.350 --> 00:50:57.360
get really creative with him and and,
but really turned him out was better.

00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:59.550
We didn't have the issues that we had.

00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:04.890
I once had him, he fell asleep while
being groomed with a student and,

00:51:04.950 --> 00:51:06.270
you know, he forgot to lock his legs.

00:51:06.270 --> 00:51:07.170
I mean, he went down.

00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:12.510
So it was he was definitely sleep
deprived, which, which I've since

00:51:12.510 --> 00:51:14.400
learned is way more common than we think.

00:51:14.700 --> 00:51:14.820
Mm-hmm.

00:51:15.060 --> 00:51:19.500
Melissa Connor: But again, keeping
them out where they figure out their

00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:22.080
herd dynamic, let them sort through it.

00:51:22.980 --> 00:51:28.140
They get their rest time, their
work time, kind of trust the horses.

00:51:28.140 --> 00:51:29.850
They know how to do
this better than we do.

00:51:29.910 --> 00:51:35.160
And so that was, is really
over time it evolved.

00:51:35.190 --> 00:51:40.440
So even as we were building this barn,
we wanted, we built a 24 stall barn.

00:51:40.470 --> 00:51:42.960
We put paddocks, as you saw
Rupert when you were there.

00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:46.550
We put large paddocks outside of
every stall with a Dutch door.

00:51:46.910 --> 00:51:52.490
So if the horse does need to be
in, they have the, they can opt in

00:51:52.490 --> 00:51:54.530
or out with their small paddock.

00:51:54.560 --> 00:51:57.800
And, and really it's they come
in every morning for breakfast.

00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.530
That's our, that's our routine now.

00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:05.690
So they're in, they're in as close to
24 hours a day as possible, but they

00:52:05.690 --> 00:52:09.080
come in for breakfast, we feed them,
and that gives us a chance to do.

00:52:09.635 --> 00:52:12.125
Body checks, notice any behavior changes.

00:52:12.125 --> 00:52:15.455
If there's any treatments that
need to be done they can be

00:52:15.455 --> 00:52:17.375
done by that morning crew.

00:52:17.925 --> 00:52:19.815
And then they go back out.

00:52:19.815 --> 00:52:24.705
So they're in the barn an hour,
maybe two, depending on what,

00:52:24.735 --> 00:52:25.845
what's happening that day.

00:52:25.845 --> 00:52:28.755
If they're working, then they
might stay in for their lesson.

00:52:28.995 --> 00:52:30.225
Those not go back out.

00:52:30.525 --> 00:52:32.205
And then we just rotate through the day.

00:52:32.255 --> 00:52:34.925
So they come in, they often
don't go to their stall.

00:52:34.925 --> 00:52:39.005
Sometimes they go to their stall to
wait for a lesson, but it might be

00:52:39.125 --> 00:52:42.455
15 minutes in a stall, and then it's
time to move 'em to the grooming area.

00:52:42.455 --> 00:52:42.935
Mm-hmm.

00:52:42.991 --> 00:52:46.471
Melissa Connor: The cross tie area where
they're, they get ready for their work.

00:52:46.501 --> 00:52:52.536
So it's, it, it really, I think we have
a good rhythm now, but people sometimes

00:52:52.536 --> 00:52:55.746
are surprised to say in Michigan,
you leave them out 24 hours a day.

00:52:56.381 --> 00:53:01.266
I, I remember hearing you speak in
Grand Rapids last summer and to the

00:53:01.266 --> 00:53:06.406
dressage barn Leanna's barn there,
and, and you said, well go out and ride

00:53:06.406 --> 00:53:08.476
the hills, you know, even in the snow.

00:53:08.476 --> 00:53:12.076
And I remember the, the ladies
going, what in the snow?

00:53:12.136 --> 00:53:14.506
You want us to go outside
and trot up and down hills?

00:53:14.506 --> 00:53:15.706
And you were like, yes, go.

00:53:15.706 --> 00:53:19.366
So it's funny, we have, in some
senses, we have covered arena.

00:53:19.366 --> 00:53:21.076
We have a, we have a heated arena.

00:53:21.536 --> 00:53:22.406
But we can, which I

00:53:22.406 --> 00:53:25.791
Rupert Isaacson: did, I did, I did
appreciate when it started to snow there.

00:53:28.046 --> 00:53:31.166
Melissa Connor: But I think then we
forget, but we can still go outside.

00:53:31.171 --> 00:53:31.191
Yeah.

00:53:31.196 --> 00:53:32.216
And there is value.

00:53:32.576 --> 00:53:33.926
It just gives us options.

00:53:33.926 --> 00:53:36.896
So we are, we are blessed that
we've been able to build a facility.

00:53:37.496 --> 00:53:41.086
All from donated money to, to
meet our needs, our horses'

00:53:41.086 --> 00:53:42.586
needs, our rider's needs.

00:53:43.236 --> 00:53:45.606
And, but, but we can still go outside.

00:53:45.606 --> 00:53:49.626
I, I try to have that mentality too, of
we don't have to stay in this temperature

00:53:49.626 --> 00:53:52.296
controlled indoor arena even in February.

00:53:52.866 --> 00:53:55.476
There are times it can be okay
to go outside for half an hour.

00:53:55.836 --> 00:53:56.136
Yeah,

00:53:56.136 --> 00:53:56.526
exactly.

00:53:57.336 --> 00:53:58.386
Melissa Connor: The horses are fine.

00:53:58.446 --> 00:53:59.376
They're better for it.

00:53:59.376 --> 00:54:01.056
It's the humans that need to bundle.

00:54:01.326 --> 00:54:01.656
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:54:01.656 --> 00:54:04.206
And, and just to be fair to, you
know, to you as well to listeners,

00:54:04.206 --> 00:54:07.236
if you're thinking, well, if
it's that cold and windy Yeah.

00:54:07.236 --> 00:54:10.446
But they, what they do have in
these, in these paddocks is in these

00:54:10.446 --> 00:54:14.016
pastures is very nice shelters to
get outta the wind, out of the snow,

00:54:14.016 --> 00:54:15.876
out of the rain, out of the wet.

00:54:15.876 --> 00:54:18.606
So they are sheltered.

00:54:19.146 --> 00:54:22.866
But yes, in large groups, and we
have the same setup here in Germany

00:54:23.236 --> 00:54:28.966
the horses can wander from pasture
into the sort of open area where

00:54:28.966 --> 00:54:32.776
there's free feeding hay and then.

00:54:33.226 --> 00:54:39.566
From there into large, long sheds
with a nice sandy bottom if they want

00:54:39.566 --> 00:54:41.996
to get out of the weather whether
it's hot or whether it's cold.

00:54:42.236 --> 00:54:45.326
And it's so interesting to me what
they choose and when they choose

00:54:45.776 --> 00:54:47.366
and when they really don't choose.

00:54:47.366 --> 00:54:49.196
You're like, you sure
you don't want to go in?

00:54:52.256 --> 00:54:52.976
Melissa Connor: Yep, yep.

00:54:53.111 --> 00:54:53.846
I know it is.

00:54:53.846 --> 00:54:59.546
And then there's sometimes we, we try
to build, you know, large shelters, but

00:54:59.546 --> 00:55:04.796
then, you know, if there's three in a
pasture, you know, and two are in and

00:55:04.796 --> 00:55:09.476
one's out, you wonder like, is did they
tell him he couldn't come in there?

00:55:09.476 --> 00:55:11.306
Is there a little dynamic going on?

00:55:11.306 --> 00:55:16.666
But, so we do blanket our
horses or put rain sheets on,

00:55:16.996 --> 00:55:19.096
but not everybody all the time.

00:55:19.156 --> 00:55:21.196
It really, it varies by horse.

00:55:21.196 --> 00:55:24.436
We watch them, we want them to.

00:55:25.321 --> 00:55:27.651
Have a coat develop their natural coat.

00:55:27.711 --> 00:55:32.601
But if they get overly sweaty and
work and we might need to clip them,

00:55:32.601 --> 00:55:36.201
then we'll do a blanket, or it's
just, it's very individualized.

00:55:36.201 --> 00:55:41.161
We make a chart for who needs to be
covered when and we, and we watch.

00:55:41.371 --> 00:55:47.311
So it's not always a, oh, the human
is cold, it's below 50 degrees.

00:55:47.341 --> 00:55:49.981
Every horse gets, gets
their coat on today.

00:55:50.081 --> 00:55:52.001
It's, it's much more individualized.

00:55:52.361 --> 00:55:54.641
Rupert Isaacson: It's, but the proof's
in the pudding, Melissa, because

00:55:54.641 --> 00:55:57.791
the horses look fabulous and, and I
saw them at the end of the winter.

00:55:58.421 --> 00:56:00.491
Which is always, that's
the telltale time, right?

00:56:00.491 --> 00:56:03.701
If, if you're gonna see horses looking
not good, that's when you're gonna see it.

00:56:04.011 --> 00:56:05.211
My own included, you know.

00:56:05.211 --> 00:56:06.891
So, hats off to you.

00:56:06.891 --> 00:56:06.951
Oh,

00:56:07.941 --> 00:56:08.361
Melissa Connor: thank you.

00:56:08.781 --> 00:56:11.391
Rupert Isaacson: Now this talk about,
as you said, you had to build the

00:56:11.391 --> 00:56:12.681
whole thing with donated money.

00:56:12.951 --> 00:56:14.931
And renew obviously started.

00:56:15.266 --> 00:56:18.806
From very small beginnings in
a boarding barn, and it's now

00:56:18.836 --> 00:56:20.336
quite an impressive facility.

00:56:20.416 --> 00:56:26.566
Funding is the big challenge that
faces everybody, especially in the

00:56:26.566 --> 00:56:32.456
USA, where there is no government
assistance for any of this stuff.

00:56:33.356 --> 00:56:34.286
We're on our own.

00:56:34.346 --> 00:56:34.946
We know it.

00:56:36.446 --> 00:56:39.176
Even Path International is
just a standalone nonprofit.

00:56:39.626 --> 00:56:42.956
You know, here in Germany, for example,
the Curatorium for therapeutic riding,

00:56:43.136 --> 00:56:45.356
it's actually part of government,
it's part of the Ministry of Health.

00:56:45.356 --> 00:56:48.626
It's part, you know, there is a certain
amount of funding, there's a certain

00:56:48.626 --> 00:56:51.806
amount of funding for those programs
through government, et cetera, et cetera.

00:56:52.676 --> 00:56:53.216
Now,

00:56:55.466 --> 00:56:59.006
the big question I'm always being
asked is how do you do the funding?

00:56:59.036 --> 00:57:02.586
And of course there's so
many ways to approach this.

00:57:02.916 --> 00:57:05.106
We had our ways of
approaching it at new trails.

00:57:05.286 --> 00:57:05.856
How do you do it?

00:57:05.856 --> 00:57:09.426
Because you, you really are having to
fundraise quite significant sums there.

00:57:09.426 --> 00:57:11.076
And you, you did a really big build.

00:57:11.556 --> 00:57:14.791
You, you are continuing, I know
you're adding a, a, a non mounted

00:57:14.791 --> 00:57:17.731
learning center, which very
exciting 'cause of movement method.

00:57:17.761 --> 00:57:20.221
I'll be wanting to get in there and yeah.

00:57:20.251 --> 00:57:20.551
You know.

00:57:20.731 --> 00:57:24.721
So tell me how you do your fundraising,
because I think people do need

00:57:25.081 --> 00:57:26.941
guidance on this, mentorship on this.

00:57:28.771 --> 00:57:29.491
Melissa Connor: Absolutely.

00:57:29.491 --> 00:57:35.581
I wish there was a secret formula that I
knew and that I could just say, but you

00:57:35.581 --> 00:57:39.891
know, it, it's similar to the pipeline
that we need to keep open for bringing

00:57:39.891 --> 00:57:42.321
in quality horses and quality equipment.

00:57:42.891 --> 00:57:47.431
It's the same for just funding
which comes down to relationships,

00:57:47.701 --> 00:57:53.511
reputation, and doing excellent work
that is changing people's lives.

00:57:54.171 --> 00:57:54.981
So.

00:57:55.776 --> 00:58:04.776
It's my role to keep broadcasting those
things in our community and even the

00:58:04.776 --> 00:58:10.296
greater community through people I
know people I meet organizations that

00:58:10.296 --> 00:58:15.936
I can partner with tell the stories,
tell the stories of transformation

00:58:16.356 --> 00:58:22.776
that happen at Renew on the horses
with our staff, with our volunteers.

00:58:23.346 --> 00:58:26.466
We have, we maintain a
waiting list for services.

00:58:26.946 --> 00:58:32.226
We serve over a hundred people,
about 120 people weekly at Renew.

00:58:32.226 --> 00:58:37.746
Currently, we are constantly
talking about how to increase that

00:58:37.746 --> 00:58:41.226
number, how can we serve more,
how can we bring more people here?

00:58:41.796 --> 00:58:47.256
So those are things I talk about with
poten donors and potential donors.

00:58:47.736 --> 00:58:48.966
We are unique.

00:58:48.996 --> 00:58:52.446
There's not another center in our town.

00:58:52.506 --> 00:58:57.396
There are some in our region an hours
drive north or an hours drive west.

00:58:57.816 --> 00:59:02.736
But in our area, no one else is
offering what we are offering.

00:59:03.566 --> 00:59:06.056
I say that there's no competition
in terms of a therapeutic

00:59:06.056 --> 00:59:10.466
riding center necessarily, but
there's a lot of nonprofits.

00:59:10.496 --> 00:59:12.716
There's a whole lot of nonprofits,
and especially serving the

00:59:12.716 --> 00:59:15.026
disability and the autism community.

00:59:15.446 --> 00:59:20.186
Another great thing about our area,
it it is a very philanthropic area.

00:59:20.726 --> 00:59:27.536
There are people here who have means, who
are willing to support programs like ours.

00:59:27.596 --> 00:59:30.426
So, but it takes years.

00:59:30.426 --> 00:59:32.536
It takes years to.

00:59:33.946 --> 00:59:35.236
Build that reputation.

00:59:35.386 --> 00:59:37.186
One of our core values is excellence.

00:59:37.186 --> 00:59:40.186
So going back to we do
excellence in our horse care.

00:59:40.186 --> 00:59:42.926
We do excellence in our staffing model.

00:59:42.926 --> 00:59:49.796
We do excellence in our service model, and
so we have to demonstrate that excellence.

00:59:49.856 --> 00:59:53.306
And so I'd like to think we do
excellence in our fundraising,

00:59:53.306 --> 00:59:54.896
in our marketing as well.

00:59:54.896 --> 00:59:59.526
And it, we're never done,
we're never done fundraising.

00:59:59.526 --> 01:00:05.076
I actually had a phone call yesterday
with a a center director in Ohio who

01:00:05.916 --> 01:00:10.586
shared with me that she, she made
her payroll here at the end of the

01:00:10.586 --> 01:00:13.766
month and has $20 left to spare.

01:00:13.796 --> 01:00:15.506
And just was like, how do you do it?

01:00:15.506 --> 01:00:17.816
How do we not constantly live on the edge?

01:00:18.236 --> 01:00:21.206
And that's such a hard
question because yes, I.

01:00:22.166 --> 01:00:26.036
Here in the States, when we depend
on the donated dollar to offer these

01:00:26.036 --> 01:00:29.366
services, it takes strategic planning.

01:00:29.366 --> 01:00:35.056
It takes it takes leadership
from a board of directors or from

01:00:35.596 --> 01:00:37.756
people willing to have that vision.

01:00:37.816 --> 01:00:42.316
And then people saying, this
needs to be, be in this community.

01:00:42.406 --> 01:00:47.116
I've, I've said over and over again, renew
needs to be in this community because we

01:00:47.116 --> 01:00:53.176
are serving 120 people a week and we have
a waiting list and we are not gonna stop.

01:00:53.236 --> 01:00:55.336
And also my vision is beyond me.

01:00:56.236 --> 01:00:59.806
I, I want renew to be
here 50 years from now.

01:00:59.896 --> 01:01:03.826
I want it to have the same
standard of excellence that it has

01:01:03.826 --> 01:01:05.926
today, or be even better, right?

01:01:05.926 --> 01:01:08.716
We wanna build for our future, for
our children, our grandchildren,

01:01:08.716 --> 01:01:09.496
our great-grandchildren.

01:01:09.886 --> 01:01:15.396
So I want there to be systems in place
for onboarding horses, for onboarding

01:01:15.396 --> 01:01:19.536
staff, for onboarding volunteers, for
serving those families who need this

01:01:19.536 --> 01:01:23.286
help that is truly transformative
and is making a difference in our

01:01:23.286 --> 01:01:25.936
community in our community and beyond.

01:01:26.056 --> 01:01:31.906
So, you know, those stories of
trans transformation, tell those

01:01:32.146 --> 01:01:33.646
anywhere and everywhere we can.

01:01:34.036 --> 01:01:34.546
I, when

01:01:34.546 --> 01:01:35.656
Rupert Isaacson: and how do you tell them?

01:01:36.016 --> 01:01:37.456
Melissa Connor: Yeah, good question.

01:01:37.906 --> 01:01:42.736
I love to get people to our farm because
that's the best place is to, to show them.

01:01:43.096 --> 01:01:43.186
Mm-hmm.

01:01:43.426 --> 01:01:48.046
But I start by, we are members
of our local Chamber of Commerce.

01:01:48.046 --> 01:01:50.086
In fact, talking about Grand Rapids.

01:01:50.086 --> 01:01:54.316
The Grand Rapids Chamber just reached
out to me yesterday just to, and said, we

01:01:54.316 --> 01:01:55.876
wanna meet you and hear about what's up.

01:01:55.876 --> 01:01:56.986
So I'm like, okay, great.

01:01:56.986 --> 01:01:59.866
So I'm going there to talk
to them about who we are.

01:02:00.346 --> 01:02:04.571
So it, I look for any and op any and
every opportunity, but this is, this is

01:02:04.696 --> 01:02:07.066
Rupert Isaacson: quite what I'm
hearing is that your way of telling

01:02:07.066 --> 01:02:11.176
the story is actually person to person
with, with a, a larynx and a tongue

01:02:11.536 --> 01:02:13.211
rather than just on social media.

01:02:13.996 --> 01:02:14.866
Melissa Connor: Absolutely.

01:02:14.896 --> 01:02:16.126
Now we do that too.

01:02:16.216 --> 01:02:16.306
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:02:17.151 --> 01:02:21.396
Melissa Connor: We, we try to do all the
things and I do have on our staff, very

01:02:21.396 --> 01:02:25.326
talented communications coordinator,
Cassie, who does our website, our social

01:02:25.326 --> 01:02:29.916
media and our print materials, and helps
with our events, which I shared with you.

01:02:29.916 --> 01:02:32.976
We just had an, an event last week,
which is our fundraising event.

01:02:33.606 --> 01:02:39.546
But the biggest thing is having
a person or multiple people

01:02:40.386 --> 01:02:43.536
face-to-face time with anywhere.

01:02:43.536 --> 01:02:49.656
I, I, I want the average person living
in our town to know us, to know our logo,

01:02:50.106 --> 01:02:53.856
to, to hear about the work we've doing.

01:02:53.946 --> 01:02:58.056
We're doing, like you said, to, they,
everybody knows somebody with a disability

01:02:58.056 --> 01:02:59.706
who can benefit from these services.

01:02:59.706 --> 01:03:00.276
So.

01:03:01.311 --> 01:03:02.691
We need to be a household name.

01:03:02.811 --> 01:03:05.051
And that takes time to develop.

01:03:05.051 --> 01:03:11.021
And then we can't be shy about
the fact that we also rely on

01:03:11.021 --> 01:03:13.901
donations to offer these services.

01:03:14.561 --> 01:03:20.381
But we don't wanna compromise with
our, our equipment, our horses.

01:03:20.651 --> 01:03:26.421
So if, if, if it ever felt like, we needed
to compromise because we had didn't have

01:03:26.421 --> 01:03:31.161
funding you know who it's similar to.

01:03:31.581 --> 01:03:32.661
Say there's a night.

01:03:32.661 --> 01:03:33.891
This hasn't happened to us in a while.

01:03:33.891 --> 01:03:37.071
We're very lucky, but say there's a night,
Wednesday night, we can't do programming

01:03:37.071 --> 01:03:39.261
because all our volunteers canceled.

01:03:39.531 --> 01:03:44.271
I used to think, who loves us enough
to show up to make this happen?

01:03:44.271 --> 01:03:48.381
Who can I call with 10 minutes
notice to say, I need you to show up?

01:03:48.771 --> 01:03:50.571
To make this happen for these students.

01:03:50.901 --> 01:03:52.251
And I used to just have a short list.

01:03:53.241 --> 01:03:55.791
Now, you don't wanna live that
way every day, every night,

01:03:55.791 --> 01:03:56.991
but those moments happen.

01:03:57.321 --> 01:04:01.581
So that was kind of the advice I
shared with this colleague yesterday

01:04:01.581 --> 01:04:06.021
was, who do you know who you
can say, we barely made payroll.

01:04:06.261 --> 01:04:07.821
Payroll's coming again in two weeks.

01:04:08.091 --> 01:04:11.451
I, I need you, I need you to
step up and this is our need.

01:04:11.451 --> 01:04:12.351
How can we do this?

01:04:13.011 --> 01:04:18.131
So I try not to live in that
you know, it's on fire way.

01:04:19.371 --> 01:04:23.121
I think a lot of therapeutic writing
centers do live in that space.

01:04:23.121 --> 01:04:23.151
Hmm.

01:04:23.661 --> 01:04:26.541
And maybe the growth was too fast.

01:04:27.381 --> 01:04:35.701
Maybe the growth was, sometimes it's when
we bought our property, we were bursting

01:04:35.701 --> 01:04:37.411
at the seams out of the boarding barn.

01:04:37.471 --> 01:04:39.601
I told you we had hor, I
had horses at my house.

01:04:39.601 --> 01:04:42.931
We were borrowing neighbor's horses,
we were borrowing boarded horses.

01:04:42.931 --> 01:04:44.251
We had horses of our own.

01:04:44.731 --> 01:04:47.821
We had three acres, but it
was part of this larger farm.

01:04:48.451 --> 01:04:52.351
When I think about the things that we
did for those few years, like it was

01:04:52.351 --> 01:04:58.561
nuts and we shouldn't it, it was not,
but I brought people to the property

01:04:58.561 --> 01:05:01.171
and said, we are bursting at the seams.

01:05:01.231 --> 01:05:04.561
And I had, I think I shared with
you, Rupert, I had a volunteer,

01:05:05.191 --> 01:05:08.911
asked to have lunch with me who,
who said, we've noticed, I've

01:05:08.911 --> 01:05:10.621
noticed, what's your 10 year plan?

01:05:10.621 --> 01:05:11.851
What's your 20 year plan?

01:05:12.211 --> 01:05:14.611
And I was able to share that with her.

01:05:15.001 --> 01:05:15.361
And she

01:05:15.361 --> 01:05:18.661
Melissa Connor: gave us a significant
donation, which became our down payment on

01:05:18.661 --> 01:05:21.211
our farm that Renew was able to purchase.

01:05:21.211 --> 01:05:22.081
Rupert Isaacson: To have that plan.

01:05:22.501 --> 01:05:22.831
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

01:05:23.251 --> 01:05:26.611
So to be able to, 'cause I was
thinking about it all the time.

01:05:26.611 --> 01:05:28.621
I knew what we had wasn't sustainable.

01:05:29.011 --> 01:05:29.101
Mm-hmm.

01:05:29.191 --> 01:05:33.151
Melissa Connor: But it, it, we
also had to demonstrate the need.

01:05:33.241 --> 01:05:35.971
We had to demonstrate that
this is worth investing in.

01:05:36.421 --> 01:05:37.441
We have a plan.

01:05:38.371 --> 01:05:41.341
Worked hard to have a good
reputation in the community.

01:05:41.461 --> 01:05:46.111
Happy to share the mission, vision,
values with anybody who wanted to know.

01:05:46.441 --> 01:05:53.551
And then the right people are drawn to
us, and it's not for lack of initiating.

01:05:53.551 --> 01:05:58.231
I tried to, there's, there's some
generous families in our town

01:05:58.261 --> 01:06:01.321
and some of them are our donors.

01:06:01.351 --> 01:06:02.311
Not all, you know.

01:06:02.341 --> 01:06:06.001
Now there's some that I wish were our
donors that aren't, but you never know

01:06:06.001 --> 01:06:10.591
what's gonna pique their interest or
their how you get their attention.

01:06:10.591 --> 01:06:12.481
So you never stop trying.

01:06:12.571 --> 01:06:16.141
I remember sending just a
letter of introduction to.

01:06:16.516 --> 01:06:19.336
People I hadn't met before, but
saying, I would like to invite

01:06:19.336 --> 01:06:20.986
you to learn about our mission.

01:06:21.496 --> 01:06:23.536
You know, I think I sent
out a hundred letters.

01:06:23.536 --> 01:06:24.946
I think I had two responses.

01:06:24.946 --> 01:06:25.006
Yeah.

01:06:25.126 --> 01:06:25.546
Rupert Isaacson: But

01:06:25.846 --> 01:06:28.366
Melissa Connor: one of those
became one of our major donors.

01:06:28.756 --> 01:06:29.116
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:06:29.116 --> 01:06:31.516
I have a story to tell about that,
and it's actually not to do with

01:06:31.516 --> 01:06:35.036
the therapeutic riding part of my
career when I, as you know, I was

01:06:35.036 --> 01:06:38.456
a an activist human rights activist
in Africa for quite a while.

01:06:39.026 --> 01:06:43.436
And when I was first getting going with
that, because I'd made the mistake of

01:06:43.736 --> 01:06:48.961
agreeing on, while sitting on top of a
sand dune during a conversation with a,

01:06:48.961 --> 01:06:53.766
a sand bushman hunter gatherer called
David Kpa to, he said, we need, you're

01:06:53.766 --> 01:06:57.396
a journalist, Rupert, assuming that
I had all this power, which I didn't.

01:06:57.876 --> 01:07:00.546
You, we, you need to get us to the
west so that you know, we can tell

01:07:00.546 --> 01:07:02.586
our story and get our lamb back.

01:07:02.766 --> 01:07:03.786
Get us to the un.

01:07:04.776 --> 01:07:05.766
And I went, okay.

01:07:06.591 --> 01:07:10.731
Then afterwards I'm like, oh my gosh,
what did I promise in the event we did?

01:07:11.181 --> 01:07:13.731
And we got into the State Department
in all sorts of places in the end

01:07:13.731 --> 01:07:15.171
and actually got the job done.

01:07:15.201 --> 01:07:15.681
Okay, great.

01:07:16.071 --> 01:07:20.081
But I remember at the very beginning I
was thinking, okay, what am I gonna do?

01:07:20.081 --> 01:07:23.191
And I recently published a book
called The Healing Land, which told

01:07:23.221 --> 01:07:25.921
the story of, of my time there, at
least the early part of my time there.

01:07:26.461 --> 01:07:28.951
And so I thought, well, I got this
book and so I can use that as a

01:07:28.951 --> 01:07:32.071
bit of a platform, but you know,
it's 50,000 books published a year.

01:07:32.071 --> 01:07:34.261
Just 'cause you've published a
book doesn't mean a whole lot.

01:07:34.741 --> 01:07:38.421
And so, and I'd actually just recently
moved to Austin, Texas where I didn't

01:07:38.421 --> 01:07:42.291
really know anybody, but we'd moved from
Denver where we had some friends and

01:07:42.351 --> 01:07:43.941
had been active in the horse community.

01:07:43.941 --> 01:07:47.301
So that, well, if I go there and
perhaps do a little fundraiser at the

01:07:47.301 --> 01:07:50.751
big tattered cover, that's the big
independent bookstore there, you know.

01:07:51.141 --> 01:07:54.711
I think a few people would show
up and probably, you know, maybe

01:07:54.711 --> 01:07:58.221
get some, some donations going
and I'd, I'd started a little

01:07:58.221 --> 01:08:00.201
nonprofit under the, someone else's.

01:08:00.351 --> 01:08:02.901
So anyway, I thought I,
I've gotta start somewhere.

01:08:02.901 --> 01:08:03.651
So I started with that.

01:08:03.651 --> 01:08:09.081
So I had to fly from Austin back to Denver
with money I couldn't really afford to do.

01:08:09.081 --> 01:08:12.231
And so let's say the whole thing cost
me five, 600 bucks to put on, which at

01:08:12.231 --> 01:08:13.551
that, that time I didn't really have.

01:08:13.941 --> 01:08:15.471
And five people showed up.

01:08:16.971 --> 01:08:23.871
However, one of those people subsequently
went and talked to a friend of theirs,

01:08:24.531 --> 01:08:27.711
and about three months later I got
an anonymous phone call saying, okay,

01:08:27.711 --> 01:08:30.261
we've recent, you don't even know
who I am, blah, blah, blah, but I've

01:08:30.261 --> 01:08:32.061
researched what you were talking about.

01:08:32.271 --> 01:08:32.991
It's legit.

01:08:34.251 --> 01:08:39.021
We are gonna back you for a third
of the budget, and if you tell other

01:08:39.021 --> 01:08:41.781
people that we are backing you,
you'll, you'll get others as well.

01:08:41.781 --> 01:08:45.201
And sure enough that, so what
that really hit home to me is.

01:08:46.341 --> 01:08:47.151
Exactly what you said.

01:08:47.151 --> 01:08:49.371
Get out there and tell the story.

01:08:49.371 --> 01:08:52.731
And don't worry if only a
couple of people show up mm-hmm.

01:08:53.001 --> 01:08:58.281
Because you just don't know who they
are or who they might go talk to.

01:08:59.001 --> 01:09:00.831
But it sure as hell won't
happen if you don't do it.

01:09:01.531 --> 01:09:01.621
Right.

01:09:01.651 --> 01:09:05.461
So one of my strategies used to be
go talk to all the rotary clubs.

01:09:05.461 --> 01:09:07.141
Like I would draw a circle

01:09:07.711 --> 01:09:08.101
Melissa Connor: Yep.

01:09:08.281 --> 01:09:11.371
Rupert Isaacson: At two hour radius
and say everyone, all the rotary clubs,

01:09:11.371 --> 01:09:12.541
because they've gotta have speakers.

01:09:12.541 --> 01:09:12.871
Right,

01:09:13.291 --> 01:09:13.771
Melissa Connor: right.

01:09:13.831 --> 01:09:14.101
Yeah.

01:09:14.236 --> 01:09:14.641
And so they're

01:09:14.641 --> 01:09:16.711
Rupert Isaacson: crying out for
speakers and usually the speakers

01:09:16.711 --> 01:09:18.541
they get are like, crushingly boring.

01:09:18.781 --> 01:09:22.711
So if you go in there with a lovely
PowerPoint of kids having an amazing

01:09:22.711 --> 01:09:26.176
time with ponies, I mean, it is
like absolutely get heavy back.

01:09:27.016 --> 01:09:30.041
Melissa Connor: I I, I think you'll like
this because you're such an engaging

01:09:30.041 --> 01:09:34.651
speaker, but I always and people think
this is crazy in these rotary clubs, but

01:09:35.071 --> 01:09:36.346
I always have people sit on their hands.

01:09:37.066 --> 01:09:38.806
And feel their seat bones, you know?

01:09:38.806 --> 01:09:38.866
Yeah.

01:09:38.866 --> 01:09:42.316
And then just describe the three planes
of movement of the horse and get them

01:09:42.676 --> 01:09:47.836
rocking in their seats and shifting their
weight and they feel their pelvis move.

01:09:47.866 --> 01:09:53.686
And then I can draw that line
to, we can provide that movement

01:09:53.686 --> 01:09:57.286
and this is what it does for the
people and these are the stories.

01:09:57.286 --> 01:10:00.166
And then people were like,
wow, that was so great.

01:10:00.166 --> 01:10:02.476
I'm like, all you did was
have them sit on your hands.

01:10:02.506 --> 01:10:08.296
I used to joke that I'm the youngest
of, of three girls in my family.

01:10:08.296 --> 01:10:12.686
And you know, we had the, the old station
wagon in the seventies growing up, and

01:10:12.686 --> 01:10:15.776
I remember my mom saying, sit on your
hands back there, like in the backseat.

01:10:15.776 --> 01:10:16.911
So I used to say,

01:10:19.131 --> 01:10:19.871
no, I don't know.

01:10:19.886 --> 01:10:23.276
I had to do this as a little girl, so we
didn't pick on each other or nobody picked

01:10:23.276 --> 01:10:27.446
on me, but sit on your hands, indulge me
for a second and, you know, feel those

01:10:27.446 --> 01:10:29.246
seat bones and understand the movement.

01:10:29.246 --> 01:10:34.166
But yeah, I've said I've done that
talk at, at multiple times at Rotary

01:10:34.166 --> 01:10:38.416
Clubs, but I, similar to you after
I spoke, I think the first time at

01:10:38.416 --> 01:10:42.956
a rotary club here in a neighboring
town of Saugatuck here in Michigan.

01:10:43.016 --> 01:10:48.686
I had a couple days later, a man give
me a call and say, heard you speak.

01:10:48.716 --> 01:10:49.916
Loved what you said.

01:10:49.916 --> 01:10:50.906
I would love a tour.

01:10:50.966 --> 01:10:53.786
So set up a tour, met his wife.

01:10:54.086 --> 01:10:57.626
They are major donors and
have become good friends.

01:10:57.746 --> 01:10:57.836
Mm-hmm.

01:10:57.896 --> 01:11:02.186
And I met them from speaking at now
this is a little small town rotary.

01:11:02.186 --> 01:11:04.916
I think there were 20 people
there, you know, at this luncheon.

01:11:04.976 --> 01:11:06.686
But most of the rot rotaries

01:11:06.776 --> 01:11:08.276
Rupert Isaacson: I would
go to would be like that.

01:11:08.636 --> 01:11:08.966
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

01:11:08.966 --> 01:11:09.026
As

01:11:09.026 --> 01:11:09.416
Rupert Isaacson: well.

01:11:09.421 --> 01:11:11.906
But I mean, but sometimes that's
actually where I feel you get

01:11:11.906 --> 01:11:15.746
the, a better response because
you are, there's less clamor.

01:11:15.746 --> 01:11:20.276
You're not, if you go to a Roastary club
in the middle of New York or London,

01:11:21.416 --> 01:11:23.066
there's a lot of interesting stuff around.

01:11:23.066 --> 01:11:24.236
You're just one of many.

01:11:24.806 --> 01:11:25.106
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

01:11:25.316 --> 01:11:27.656
Rupert Isaacson: It's sometimes better
to be a big fish in a small pond.

01:11:27.656 --> 01:11:27.956
Yeah.

01:11:28.016 --> 01:11:28.286
Yeah.

01:11:28.286 --> 01:11:28.706
Melissa Connor: Right.

01:11:29.411 --> 01:11:30.281
Absolutely.

01:11:30.431 --> 01:11:31.181
Absolutely.

01:11:31.451 --> 01:11:36.101
And so sometimes it doesn't have to
be anything fancy, but like you said,

01:11:36.161 --> 01:11:41.261
just getting the word out there, look
for, I have been a lunch speaker,

01:11:41.261 --> 01:11:45.011
even for some local businesses,
like a financial investment group.

01:11:45.011 --> 01:11:48.011
They do a lunch, lunch and learn
once a month, you know, and I've,

01:11:48.071 --> 01:11:52.361
they invited me to speak and that was
because I met somebody at a Chamber

01:11:52.361 --> 01:11:56.291
of Commerce networking event, which
I go to those and take my, you know,

01:11:56.291 --> 01:11:59.361
take all my my cards, brochures, and

01:11:59.451 --> 01:11:59.871
Rupert Isaacson: yes.

01:11:59.991 --> 01:12:03.261
Melissa Connor: So those kinds of
things do, take, take, it takes

01:12:03.261 --> 01:12:07.911
time, but getting that word out
so that you can invite people in.

01:12:08.091 --> 01:12:12.321
And I think that's the way to go,
tell the story, get it out there.

01:12:12.321 --> 01:12:16.821
But then if people could come to the
writing center and actually see with

01:12:16.821 --> 01:12:22.431
their own eyes and see the students
and it, how powerful is it to see?

01:12:23.031 --> 01:12:30.461
Either a child on the autism spectrum
go from you know, getting out of the

01:12:30.461 --> 01:12:36.071
car, entering the barn to being on
the horse and seeing that empowerment

01:12:36.101 --> 01:12:43.181
and that pride and how they glow
when they're on, on the horse.

01:12:43.181 --> 01:12:47.231
I think the donors need to
see that and need to see.

01:12:47.621 --> 01:12:49.991
We also serve people
with physical challenges.

01:12:49.991 --> 01:12:54.671
And we have a, you know, a wheelchair
lift system, a sure hands lift system.

01:12:54.671 --> 01:13:01.121
And so that's the, that's a very
physically obvious one where the horse

01:13:01.121 --> 01:13:05.651
becomes the person's legs and their,
their pelvis, their spine gets to

01:13:05.651 --> 01:13:10.481
move as if they were walking because
the horse is creating that movement.

01:13:10.481 --> 01:13:15.221
That's, that's always a
powerful visual tool too.

01:13:15.221 --> 01:13:18.731
And so just to bring people
into the space and show them.

01:13:19.361 --> 01:13:21.011
Then they, they usually get one over.

01:13:22.661 --> 01:13:26.891
Rupert Isaacson: Well, luckily also
the, the horses are always the best

01:13:26.891 --> 01:13:28.661
ambassadors and, and the kids themselves.

01:13:28.661 --> 01:13:29.141
It's like, yeah.

01:13:29.651 --> 01:13:33.371
But one of the things I often encourage
people to do, I mean, everything

01:13:33.371 --> 01:13:36.851
we're talking about is, is, is local,
but I always also encourage people

01:13:36.851 --> 01:13:39.011
to go outside their area as well.

01:13:39.371 --> 01:13:43.511
Like you say with lunch and
learns, you know, they could

01:13:43.511 --> 01:13:47.771
be not actually in your area.

01:13:48.291 --> 01:13:51.111
Perhaps you haven't got the budget to
travel, but often they can happen by Zoom.

01:13:51.261 --> 01:13:53.781
I just did one for example, for UPS oh.

01:13:53.786 --> 01:13:56.661
And they were like 2000
people on that employees.

01:13:57.681 --> 01:13:58.071
Wow.

01:13:58.311 --> 01:13:58.761
Rupert Isaacson: Guess what?

01:13:58.821 --> 01:14:01.251
There's a ton of employees
with special needs.

01:14:01.371 --> 01:14:06.931
if you're a horse nerd, and if you're on
this podcast, I'm guessing you are, then

01:14:06.941 --> 01:14:11.931
you've probably also always wondered a
little bit about the old master system.

01:14:12.396 --> 01:14:13.706
of dressage training.

01:14:13.746 --> 01:14:22.316
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony
program, we outline there step by step

01:14:22.386 --> 01:14:28.666
exactly how to train your horse from
the ground to become the dressage horse

01:14:28.676 --> 01:14:35.196
of your dreams in a way that absolutely
serves the physical, mental and emotional

01:14:35.246 --> 01:14:38.016
well being of the horse and the rider.

01:14:38.076 --> 01:14:38.816
Intrigued?

01:14:39.016 --> 01:14:39.876
Like to know more?

01:14:40.746 --> 01:14:43.576
Go to our website, Helios Harmony.

01:14:45.276 --> 01:14:46.966
Check out the free introduction course.

01:14:47.526 --> 01:14:48.046
Take it from there.

01:14:48.550 --> 01:14:48.610
Yeah.

01:14:48.615 --> 01:14:50.860
Or, or family members with special needs.

01:14:50.860 --> 01:14:50.920
Yeah.

01:14:51.220 --> 01:14:55.210
So the Lunch and Learn people at UPS,
they look for, and they actually have

01:14:55.210 --> 01:14:58.420
all these different clubs within UPS
of, they have a whole special needs.

01:14:58.780 --> 01:15:00.910
Section, I'll gladly
hook you up, you know?

01:15:01.010 --> 01:15:01.340
And wow.

01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:06.740
So people were just coming, I was
doing it from Germany, but most of

01:15:06.740 --> 01:15:10.730
the people were in the US but actually
they were further afield as well.

01:15:10.820 --> 01:15:13.370
And then what happens is, I
think this is where we can really

01:15:13.370 --> 01:15:14.660
help each other as a community.

01:15:14.930 --> 01:15:18.560
So I had people at the question
saying, well, I'm sitting here

01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:23.390
in North Carolina, or I'm sitting
here in Colorado, what can I do?

01:15:24.050 --> 01:15:28.160
And I could say, oh, well we've actually
got these three practitioners over here,

01:15:28.160 --> 01:15:29.780
or those four practitioners over there.

01:15:30.110 --> 01:15:34.020
Or if there's no one in your area, you
could at least do the movement method

01:15:34.020 --> 01:15:36.270
course yourself and work at home.

01:15:36.670 --> 01:15:36.730
Yeah.

01:15:36.790 --> 01:15:38.440
But you know, that's why
I'm always excited to.

01:15:39.130 --> 01:15:40.540
Places like yours, like renew?

01:15:40.570 --> 01:15:43.060
'cause I can sort of just add
them to the list of resources.

01:15:43.750 --> 01:15:47.860
Yeah, I think it always comes across
very well when you are fundraising,

01:15:47.860 --> 01:15:49.150
if you recommend other people.

01:15:49.150 --> 01:15:50.830
I, I think that's often,
often a winning thing.

01:15:51.040 --> 01:15:54.820
One of the things that I, I think is a
really big turnoff, which happens, and

01:15:54.820 --> 01:16:00.460
I'm always surprised that people do it,
is when people badmouth other people,

01:16:00.910 --> 01:16:06.040
and I think your average donor that has
been successful enough in life to be in a

01:16:06.040 --> 01:16:09.490
position where they can be a donor that's.

01:16:10.375 --> 01:16:11.815
A massive red flag right there.

01:16:11.815 --> 01:16:14.455
It's like, oh, you're someone who
causes conflict in your community.

01:16:14.905 --> 01:16:14.965
Yeah.

01:16:14.965 --> 01:16:17.515
You're not someone who
causes, all right, well, mm.

01:16:18.055 --> 01:16:21.925
And one sees a surprising amount of this
still in the therapeutic riding world.

01:16:21.925 --> 01:16:23.815
It, it, it never ceases to amaze me.

01:16:23.815 --> 01:16:25.495
It actually made me very
sad at the beginning.

01:16:25.735 --> 01:16:29.935
'cause I, I came into it a little bit,
starry-eyed, you know, having worked

01:16:29.935 --> 01:16:33.265
with my, my own son and stumbled into
something good and thought, oh, well,

01:16:33.265 --> 01:16:37.765
you know, and whoa, it was, it wasn't

01:16:38.365 --> 01:16:38.845
environment.

01:16:39.175 --> 01:16:42.195
Rupert Isaacson: And and I thought,
well that makes me a bit sad as

01:16:42.195 --> 01:16:44.265
the father of an autistic boy.

01:16:44.265 --> 01:16:50.295
Because that means that you
all don't really prioritize the

01:16:50.295 --> 01:16:51.795
kids, even if you say you do.

01:16:51.945 --> 01:16:57.525
'cause if you did, you wouldn't indulge
in that kind of negative behavior because

01:16:57.525 --> 01:17:00.705
you would know, it would always, it would
inevitably rebound on the kid, right.

01:17:00.735 --> 01:17:01.845
I mean, but yeah.

01:17:02.355 --> 01:17:04.755
Hey, humans to humans, so.

01:17:05.745 --> 01:17:08.845
You know, one of the things I've
noticed about you is I've never heard

01:17:08.845 --> 01:17:10.435
you talk that way about anybody.

01:17:10.615 --> 01:17:13.875
And I do think that
there is a lesson there.

01:17:13.905 --> 01:17:18.705
I think people, particularly donors,
are often listening more closely than

01:17:18.705 --> 01:17:23.325
one might think to what you, not to what
you say, but to what you don't say or

01:17:23.535 --> 01:17:28.725
to the things that you say that are not
perhaps directly to do with the work.

01:17:29.445 --> 01:17:29.745
Yeah.

01:17:29.895 --> 01:17:32.895
What, you know, could you
speak to that a little bit?

01:17:32.895 --> 01:17:37.185
Because I know, you know, you've, you've,
you've had some experience in this, but

01:17:37.185 --> 01:17:41.025
both in the sort of going outside of your
community and just also in the sort of

01:17:41.025 --> 01:17:43.995
community, I guess what we are really
talking about is community building and

01:17:43.995 --> 01:17:49.215
community building within our industry,
within our, within our field, if you like.

01:17:49.735 --> 01:17:51.655
Where really we're all colleagues, right?

01:17:51.685 --> 01:17:52.615
I mean Right.

01:17:52.855 --> 01:17:54.055
Should be treated absolutely.

01:17:54.055 --> 01:17:55.225
That way, you know, it's, it's.

01:17:57.175 --> 01:17:59.785
Melissa Connor: Yeah, I, I, I
know I have a, a good friend and

01:17:59.785 --> 01:18:01.375
colleague who just says it's crazy.

01:18:01.375 --> 01:18:06.625
We bring horse people and we bring
advocates for people with disabilities.

01:18:08.035 --> 01:18:12.325
Both tend to have intense personalities
and we just throw them together.

01:18:12.685 --> 01:18:17.905
And so is there a surprise that we
have a difference of opinion sometimes?

01:18:18.955 --> 01:18:19.345
Fair enough.

01:18:19.345 --> 01:18:20.035
No.

01:18:20.445 --> 01:18:24.225
Melissa Connor: But I do, I, I, I
resonate with what you're saying.

01:18:24.225 --> 01:18:25.095
Absolutely.

01:18:25.095 --> 01:18:31.215
Because people do have intense feelings
about equine assisted services and they

01:18:31.215 --> 01:18:34.555
have intense feelings about this work.

01:18:34.645 --> 01:18:38.905
They have intense feelings about their
horses, about their son, daughter,

01:18:38.965 --> 01:18:43.435
nephew, grandchild, neighbor, friend,
you know, who's receiving services.

01:18:43.440 --> 01:18:43.670
Mm-hmm.

01:18:44.095 --> 01:18:48.395
Melissa Connor: And so I think everything
does get magnified in our world and

01:18:48.905 --> 01:18:49.385
Rupert Isaacson: Fair point.

01:18:50.105 --> 01:18:52.865
Melissa Connor: So, yeah,
so conflict happens.

01:18:53.015 --> 01:18:54.275
Conflict is part of life.

01:18:54.305 --> 01:18:59.115
Conflict is is a natural outcome
of people working together.

01:18:59.235 --> 01:19:06.875
So I think one of the things that I've
definitely learned and is not to, the

01:19:06.875 --> 01:19:10.985
worst thing you can do is avoid conflict
or run away from it, or shy away from it,

01:19:10.985 --> 01:19:19.655
but rather just dive in and in a, have
a culture, which we, we intentionally

01:19:19.655 --> 01:19:24.665
talk about our culture at Renew,
where we want to care for one another.

01:19:25.175 --> 01:19:26.915
We care for our horses with excellence.

01:19:26.915 --> 01:19:28.265
We care for the people we serve.

01:19:28.265 --> 01:19:32.985
We want people to feel like they're
heard and they're important.

01:19:33.645 --> 01:19:38.385
And so we make a concerted effort to.

01:19:39.225 --> 01:19:40.395
Talk about things.

01:19:40.425 --> 01:19:45.045
I want people to understand if, if I,
as the executive director have to make

01:19:45.045 --> 01:19:48.465
a decision, like, we're doing this
program, we're not doing this program.

01:19:48.975 --> 01:19:52.335
I don't just make the decision and
walk away and boom, drop it, but

01:19:52.335 --> 01:19:57.135
want everybody to know why or how we
arrived there or there was buy-in.

01:19:57.795 --> 01:20:05.205
I had a family come to our barn dedication
last fall, who I had known from Virginia.

01:20:05.235 --> 01:20:10.335
They had been donors and I had
been friends with their children

01:20:10.815 --> 01:20:13.455
in, in that, in that space.

01:20:13.460 --> 01:20:19.865
And we had lived in the same town and
they chose to, to come and, and support

01:20:19.895 --> 01:20:24.605
renew really, because I was there and
they knew me, but we, I was walking around

01:20:24.605 --> 01:20:28.025
showing them the property, looking at
the horses, kind of like what you did.

01:20:28.025 --> 01:20:31.025
They said, how come this.

01:20:31.310 --> 01:20:34.730
Place seems so amazing, or
how did you think to do this?

01:20:35.240 --> 01:20:38.240
And I said, first of all, it was not me.

01:20:38.840 --> 01:20:42.200
I try, I involved other
people every step of the way.

01:20:42.290 --> 01:20:47.660
So when we got the first donation
for what became our permanent

01:20:47.660 --> 01:20:50.930
home, we set, we did a town hall.

01:20:50.990 --> 01:20:55.430
I invited volunteers, parents,
you know, I said, what do you want

01:20:55.550 --> 01:20:56.990
in a therapeutic writing center?

01:20:57.530 --> 01:20:59.390
And we sent out surveys.

01:20:59.390 --> 01:21:00.890
We did this more than once.

01:21:01.400 --> 01:21:01.700
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, good idea.

01:21:02.210 --> 01:21:05.350
Melissa Connor: We formed a,
a task force, a committee.

01:21:05.350 --> 01:21:09.010
Basically, I made sure that I was a part
of it, but we had other staff members,

01:21:09.010 --> 01:21:13.150
board members, volunteers, parents that
were, that were committed to meeting

01:21:13.150 --> 01:21:15.550
together so that we could design.

01:21:16.105 --> 01:21:18.505
The 20 acres, what's the flow?

01:21:19.045 --> 01:21:20.965
Where do we want the horses?

01:21:20.965 --> 01:21:22.255
Where do we want the riders?

01:21:22.255 --> 01:21:23.635
How do we wanna welcome them?

01:21:23.635 --> 01:21:28.285
What values need to be
evident and obvious?

01:21:28.285 --> 01:21:32.815
And you know, we want people to
feel accepted and they had great

01:21:32.815 --> 01:21:35.095
ideas that were not my ideas.

01:21:35.155 --> 01:21:39.415
So I had some ideas, other people
had other ideas, but we threw 'em

01:21:39.415 --> 01:21:44.275
all up there and we talked about
'em and we involved the builder.

01:21:44.335 --> 01:21:49.105
And then when we kind of had a plan,
that's when I could take the plan to

01:21:49.135 --> 01:21:51.385
the donors and say, will you fund this?

01:21:51.865 --> 01:21:53.485
This is how we came up with the plan.

01:21:53.935 --> 01:22:00.325
So I think that sometimes smaller
nonprofits have a founder or have

01:22:00.325 --> 01:22:04.845
a designated leader who and maybe
it's even on their own property.

01:22:05.385 --> 01:22:11.025
I never wanted the writing center
on my own property, just for some.

01:22:11.745 --> 01:22:13.905
Separation of home and work life.

01:22:14.295 --> 01:22:18.135
So I knew that wasn't something I
wanna renew to have their own property

01:22:18.195 --> 01:22:25.575
because I think realistic enough to know
that, you know, I am may not be here

01:22:25.575 --> 01:22:28.905
in five or 10 years, but I want renew
to still be here in five or 10 years.

01:22:28.905 --> 01:22:32.415
You know, nobody, we
all are, we are mortal.

01:22:32.445 --> 01:22:38.145
So, but I want renew I to invest in
this organization to live beyond me.

01:22:38.325 --> 01:22:38.715
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, sure.

01:22:38.715 --> 01:22:38.775
So

01:22:39.315 --> 01:22:42.795
Melissa Connor: I have to
try to plan it that way.

01:22:43.485 --> 01:22:48.105
Create, buy-in, actively listen to
people and what they care about.

01:22:48.705 --> 01:22:54.845
I have even called donors and I, I did
this, we had a mor, we have a mortgage

01:22:54.845 --> 01:23:01.775
on the property and I was asking for
funds to build, you know, the new barn

01:23:01.835 --> 01:23:03.935
and we hadn't paid off our mortgage.

01:23:03.935 --> 01:23:08.885
And I reached out even to donors
and said, I'm leaning towards.

01:23:09.485 --> 01:23:13.265
Keeping the mortgage right now, when
we got the mortgage, money was cheap.

01:23:13.295 --> 01:23:16.235
We have like a 2%
interest on our mortgage.

01:23:16.235 --> 01:23:20.825
So I said, are you okay if we carry
this mortgage a few more years and go

01:23:20.825 --> 01:23:26.045
ahead and build our barn because this
is gonna make it an easier space to

01:23:26.045 --> 01:23:31.835
serve our students in every donor I
called said, absolutely, if this is what

01:23:31.835 --> 01:23:35.375
you feel you're ready for, I support
you and I will give to build the barn.

01:23:35.525 --> 01:23:41.825
So, but I had to ask the question, so
had to have the trust, the relationship.

01:23:41.825 --> 01:23:44.225
Those are just examples
of, it's not just me.

01:23:44.255 --> 01:23:49.805
I think there's, if a person, if one
person or a small group of people makes

01:23:49.805 --> 01:23:53.915
all the decision without asking the
questions or getting that community buy-in

01:23:54.845 --> 01:23:57.335
I think conflict is more likely to happen.

01:23:58.085 --> 01:24:03.575
Or people may be off put that they weren't
invited in and I think that's where.

01:24:04.460 --> 01:24:05.720
Conflict can happen.

01:24:05.720 --> 01:24:09.860
So now we did have disagreements
and I'd shared with you, yeah,

01:24:09.860 --> 01:24:11.180
we had some disagreements.

01:24:11.180 --> 01:24:17.840
We don't have, every staff member didn't
stay with us from our transition from

01:24:17.840 --> 01:24:19.790
the smaller property to the larger one.

01:24:20.540 --> 01:24:21.890
And that's okay.

01:24:21.950 --> 01:24:27.770
This is a world where people all have
choices and not everybody liked us going

01:24:27.770 --> 01:24:29.390
from a small center to a big center.

01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:29.930
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:24:30.260 --> 01:24:33.110
Melissa Connor: Not everybody
could make that jump.

01:24:33.350 --> 01:24:34.520
And that's also okay.

01:24:35.120 --> 01:24:41.860
I felt like I had been given a vision and
placed in this role as a leader where if

01:24:41.860 --> 01:24:45.520
there were enough people with a shared
vision and the community was gonna get

01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:49.450
behind it, we were gonna go with the idea
of serving as many people as possible.

01:24:50.350 --> 01:24:51.070
So I.

01:24:51.760 --> 01:24:57.640
Yeah, that just made some people
uncomfortable and you, so naturally, there

01:24:57.640 --> 01:25:00.710
are some people that fall by the wayside.

01:25:00.710 --> 01:25:06.320
And my hope, I can't say I've done this
a hundred percent because nothing is ever

01:25:06.650 --> 01:25:10.130
a hundred percent, or if I could do over,
maybe I do some of that differently.

01:25:10.130 --> 01:25:17.510
But I can say that I have tried my
best to maintain relationships with the

01:25:17.510 --> 01:25:22.520
people that wanted to be part of what
we were doing in the community and,

01:25:22.970 --> 01:25:25.400
and try to always have an open door.

01:25:25.460 --> 01:25:29.780
Anyone can reach out and say, request
a meeting, or, I, I try to tell my

01:25:29.780 --> 01:25:31.340
staff too, anything's on the table.

01:25:31.340 --> 01:25:35.210
We talk, we make sure we encourage
each other, appreciate each other.

01:25:35.825 --> 01:25:38.315
We meet together, we ride together.

01:25:38.855 --> 01:25:39.695
I've done things.

01:25:39.785 --> 01:25:41.585
Even talking, talking about riding.

01:25:41.825 --> 01:25:45.545
Our instructors are doing it overnight
next week, but we all went and took

01:25:45.545 --> 01:25:50.135
a hunter jumper lesson together at a,
at a local barn like two years ago.

01:25:50.165 --> 01:25:50.795
They loved it.

01:25:50.825 --> 01:25:55.295
We just took a day and you met Ellis,
even Ellis wrote a third red named

01:25:55.295 --> 01:25:57.275
Betty and jumped a three foot fence.

01:25:57.275 --> 01:25:58.625
You know, I mean, it was great.

01:25:58.685 --> 01:26:05.735
So we try to, we try to build in
experiences at every level where we can

01:26:05.735 --> 01:26:11.315
still share life together, share our
work together, have fun together, but

01:26:11.315 --> 01:26:16.745
all of that works to set a stage where
conflict isn't, isn't gonna ruin us.

01:26:17.315 --> 01:26:20.765
Rupert Isaacson: Well, that's you had
mentioned earlier in the conversation

01:26:20.815 --> 01:26:23.755
excellence in staffing, and I was
actually gonna ask you about that.

01:26:24.175 --> 01:26:27.745
So I think you just sort of answered
my question a little bit there.

01:26:28.295 --> 01:26:30.215
But I do think that
that's something which.

01:26:31.880 --> 01:26:39.635
It doesn't always happen and it's entirely
forgivable because as you say, I think

01:26:40.175 --> 01:26:44.555
the majority of places that do our
work are often in a state of overwhelm.

01:26:44.555 --> 01:26:45.515
Mm-hmm.

01:26:45.625 --> 01:26:51.715
And one needs a little bit of a pause and
a perspective to be able to come up with

01:26:51.715 --> 01:26:58.465
ideas like, let's not only all go and have
a hunter jumper lesson, but how do we set

01:26:58.465 --> 01:26:59.875
aside the time and the budget for that?

01:27:00.445 --> 01:27:07.315
And in order to do that, that means a
certain amount of efficiency must have

01:27:07.315 --> 01:27:10.135
taken us outta the overwhelm phase.

01:27:10.915 --> 01:27:12.325
You have been in overwhelm.

01:27:13.225 --> 01:27:13.315
Mm-hmm.

01:27:13.765 --> 01:27:20.335
Talk to us a little bit about how you
went from overwhelm to non overwhelm so

01:27:20.335 --> 01:27:24.775
that you could be in a position to staff
in the way that you wanted to staff.

01:27:27.070 --> 01:27:28.450
Melissa Connor: What a great question.

01:27:29.770 --> 01:27:40.140
So it was from 2014 to 2019, we
had a five year lease agreement for

01:27:40.140 --> 01:27:44.130
that little three acre parcel, which
I mentioned at the boarding barn.

01:27:44.850 --> 01:27:48.510
Happens to be across the street,
literally at the end of my driveway,

01:27:48.510 --> 01:27:50.610
across the street from where I live.

01:27:50.610 --> 01:27:53.970
So I think I dove in.

01:27:53.970 --> 01:27:59.340
I was so excited for one thing
to have sort of our own space for

01:27:59.640 --> 01:28:06.030
renew to exist and operate in that
five years we grew exponentially.

01:28:06.030 --> 01:28:08.970
I knew by 2016, definitely 2017.

01:28:09.690 --> 01:28:11.100
We had so much interest.

01:28:11.100 --> 01:28:12.360
We had schools reaching out to us.

01:28:12.360 --> 01:28:15.780
We had parents, families,
eager for our services.

01:28:15.780 --> 01:28:19.210
We started a waiting
list, I think in 2016.

01:28:19.930 --> 01:28:21.340
I knew it was temporary.

01:28:21.430 --> 01:28:25.480
I think I was willing to put in
the work because I knew at the,

01:28:25.480 --> 01:28:29.950
at, when 2019 rolled around,
we had to go somewhere else.

01:28:29.980 --> 01:28:31.510
We could not stay where we were.

01:28:31.510 --> 01:28:33.070
We were not going to.

01:28:33.670 --> 01:28:37.660
It was a five-year lease that I
had signed, you know, in 2014.

01:28:38.140 --> 01:28:40.810
And it, it was not sustainable,

01:28:41.080 --> 01:28:41.470
Rupert Isaacson: right?

01:28:41.920 --> 01:28:46.360
Melissa Connor: So I think I saw that
there was gonna be a light at the

01:28:46.360 --> 01:28:52.180
end of the tunnel so I could work
really hard for those few years.

01:28:52.210 --> 01:28:55.360
And yes, overwork myself
for those few years.

01:28:55.900 --> 01:29:00.620
Learned a lot along the way,
but then we knew that something

01:29:00.620 --> 01:29:02.330
better was going to happen.

01:29:02.360 --> 01:29:05.420
But like I said, I, I
knew we needed an answer.

01:29:05.420 --> 01:29:13.160
It was in 2017 that a volunteer noticed,
you know, who, who ended up being our

01:29:13.160 --> 01:29:17.090
donor, who gave us the down payment
for the property that we have now.

01:29:17.090 --> 01:29:18.140
That's our permanent home.

01:29:19.010 --> 01:29:20.390
I didn't initiate that.

01:29:20.390 --> 01:29:24.170
I was just trying to stay focused
on the mission and do good work.

01:29:24.175 --> 01:29:24.505
Mm-hmm.

01:29:24.590 --> 01:29:29.480
I was trying to do good work and I was
willing to, to work hard to do that

01:29:29.480 --> 01:29:31.520
good work for that period of time.

01:29:32.240 --> 01:29:36.820
If, if if that had not happened,
you know, where would we be?

01:29:36.920 --> 01:29:41.000
I pro I would've preferred to move
to a different property that would've

01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:44.660
better served our needs, but I,
we were just gonna wait and see.

01:29:44.810 --> 01:29:50.240
So for us it was, divine intervention,
the stars aligned anyway, the donor

01:29:50.240 --> 01:29:55.010
stepped up and we were able to, to,
to make that move and make that plan.

01:29:55.010 --> 01:29:56.840
But I always knew it was temporary.

01:29:56.840 --> 01:29:56.930
Mm-hmm.

01:29:57.260 --> 01:30:01.310
So five years might not feel
like a long time, but it was, it

01:30:01.310 --> 01:30:03.080
was, you know, it was a while.

01:30:03.260 --> 01:30:03.980
Rupert Isaacson: It was five years.

01:30:04.100 --> 01:30:05.000
Overwhelm can be,

01:30:08.030 --> 01:30:08.480
yeah.

01:30:08.480 --> 01:30:12.310
It's well, the proof's in the pudding,
Melissa, you know, what, what you've

01:30:12.310 --> 01:30:14.250
achieved is is beautiful to see.

01:30:15.510 --> 01:30:15.990
Mm, thank you.

01:30:16.470 --> 01:30:23.370
Rupert Isaacson: What I would encourage
listeners to do is reach out to Melissa

01:30:23.490 --> 01:30:30.420
and even consider going up there because
it's a beautiful facility, but it's also

01:30:30.420 --> 01:30:33.150
not a ridiculously overwhelming facility.

01:30:33.150 --> 01:30:34.530
It's not the Kentucky Horse Park.

01:30:34.560 --> 01:30:39.180
You know, it's it's on a
scale that one could imagine.

01:30:41.460 --> 01:30:48.240
Doing oneself once one had a
certain amount of momentum rolling.

01:30:49.410 --> 01:30:55.230
But I think that I would like to see
a lot more mentorship within our field

01:30:55.230 --> 01:30:57.720
because most of us bootstrapped it.

01:30:57.720 --> 01:30:58.980
Most of us fell into it.

01:30:59.250 --> 01:31:00.210
Most of us.

01:31:00.930 --> 01:31:02.940
We certainly didn't get
into it for the money.

01:31:03.450 --> 01:31:06.690
And we, we found ourselves here.

01:31:07.560 --> 01:31:09.180
Now I think it's changing.

01:31:09.330 --> 01:31:13.110
It's now becoming a
really viable career path.

01:31:13.110 --> 01:31:16.830
We are really seeing this in Ireland,
for example, where the government really

01:31:16.830 --> 01:31:18.570
got behind Horse Boy and movement method.

01:31:18.670 --> 01:31:24.285
Once it, it was very clear that at a place
called Li Skint Farm man, David Doyle,

01:31:24.285 --> 01:31:28.795
who I've talked about before sort of
proved that they could take very violent.

01:31:29.125 --> 01:31:34.235
People who had up to three minders
with them at any one time, each of

01:31:34.235 --> 01:31:37.775
which is very expensive, and bring that
down to one, you know, consistently

01:31:37.775 --> 01:31:39.065
over five years of this thing.

01:31:39.065 --> 01:31:41.285
And of course, this got
government attention.

01:31:41.285 --> 01:31:43.565
And eventually they said,
okay, we'll, we'll back it.

01:31:43.565 --> 01:31:48.515
Now suddenly we're looking at having a
different type of problem, which is how do

01:31:48.515 --> 01:31:53.915
we staff these large new facilities that
are coming up with the government backing?

01:31:53.915 --> 01:31:57.885
Because yes, sure there's a lot of
good horse people in Ireland, but now

01:31:57.885 --> 01:32:00.705
that there's government stamp on it,
they've gotta have these qualifications.

01:32:00.705 --> 01:32:02.025
They gotta have this,
they gotta have that.

01:32:02.145 --> 01:32:03.735
And the pool narrows.

01:32:03.855 --> 01:32:07.305
You can't just have your friend from down
the road who's good with ponies right.

01:32:07.305 --> 01:32:09.075
That's not gonna fly anymore.

01:32:09.855 --> 01:32:10.605
So

01:32:12.795 --> 01:32:14.205
the industry's shifting.

01:32:14.205 --> 01:32:18.735
And it's good because
the, when you and I began.

01:32:20.040 --> 01:32:24.210
We were lucky if we could find
volunteers, the people that we ended

01:32:24.210 --> 01:32:26.400
up employing or that you still employ.

01:32:26.850 --> 01:32:30.480
We had to really scramble
to find that budget.

01:32:31.110 --> 01:32:36.000
Now as things change, it, it's not a thing
that people have to think about begging

01:32:36.000 --> 01:32:42.960
themselves to do or just volunteering
or perhaps working for a ER's wage.

01:32:43.410 --> 01:32:45.000
It's shifting.

01:32:45.810 --> 01:32:45.900
Mm-hmm.

01:32:46.140 --> 01:32:51.960
With that shift, however, comes
the next set of challenges, which

01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:53.130
are good challenges to have.

01:32:53.620 --> 01:32:58.930
How to find the staffing, how to put the
strategies in place, how to deal with

01:32:58.930 --> 01:33:01.300
conflict, how to deal with entitlement.

01:33:01.330 --> 01:33:05.020
You know, because if people are coming
into an actually an assured job, you know,

01:33:05.020 --> 01:33:10.000
rather than something that they've sort
of created themselves, that does sometimes

01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:11.500
create a slightly different mentality.

01:33:11.500 --> 01:33:13.625
That's not always a healthy
mentality, da, da, da.

01:33:14.620 --> 01:33:19.100
They're gonna need to turn to people
like you, Melissa, I think for guidance

01:33:19.190 --> 01:33:21.230
that this next generation coming up.

01:33:21.440 --> 01:33:32.210
So do you have any thoughts
that way in terms of creating

01:33:32.210 --> 01:33:33.830
those sorts of symposiums?

01:33:33.930 --> 01:33:37.410
Official, unofficial, there was just
one in Ireland, for example, last week

01:33:37.410 --> 01:33:41.790
we're doing this in a, just at the end of
April, April, 2025, the Equine Assisted

01:33:41.790 --> 01:33:44.890
services Ireland sort of working group.

01:33:44.890 --> 01:33:48.550
We're getting together with a
lot of the key players there.

01:33:49.060 --> 01:33:50.170
Some of whom.

01:33:51.925 --> 01:33:56.005
Think more highly of each other than
others, but yet they're beginning to

01:33:56.005 --> 01:34:00.055
be able to sort of bury those hatchets
and actually get in the same room

01:34:00.055 --> 01:34:02.485
and do it because we are realizing,
no, we're going to the next level.

01:34:02.485 --> 01:34:05.455
Now we can't be a bunch of kindergartners.

01:34:05.635 --> 01:34:07.045
The US is obviously a much bigger

01:34:09.985 --> 01:34:15.565
organism divided into regions, but are
you starting to think along these lines

01:34:15.565 --> 01:34:19.345
as well of, of, of starting to create
these, if you like, think tanks, really?

01:34:19.855 --> 01:34:20.125
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

01:34:21.060 --> 01:34:27.505
I, I am, I believe you have nailed it
on the head that mentorship is what

01:34:28.585 --> 01:34:30.775
our industry needs more than anything.

01:34:30.775 --> 01:34:37.545
And we do, we tend to have
doers, people that like to be.

01:34:38.400 --> 01:34:42.690
Part of the magic that happens in
the arena, the magic that happens

01:34:42.690 --> 01:34:44.670
between participant and horse.

01:34:44.870 --> 01:34:46.910
But we do need people

01:34:49.100 --> 01:34:52.850
excited to go out in the community
and tell stories, people who know

01:34:52.850 --> 01:34:57.800
how to plan strategically, people who
know how to do something, like create

01:34:57.800 --> 01:35:03.650
a budget, raise a budget, balance
the books, write job descriptions

01:35:04.880 --> 01:35:06.440
Rupert Isaacson: and watch
calling from the room.

01:35:06.440 --> 01:35:06.740
Yeah,

01:35:06.955 --> 01:35:12.290
Melissa Connor: I know those are skills
that people don't get into equine

01:35:12.290 --> 01:35:14.360
assistance services to do those things.

01:35:14.360 --> 01:35:17.390
They think, oh, that's the business side.

01:35:17.480 --> 01:35:25.080
I, I have, have at times feel torn
because I love the direct service.

01:35:25.080 --> 01:35:27.450
That's why, that's what
drew me to the field.

01:35:27.450 --> 01:35:33.510
I, I grew up loving horses,
riding horses, but when I saw.

01:35:34.335 --> 01:35:38.565
The transformation that happened
with children with disabilities.

01:35:39.075 --> 01:35:41.475
I, I, that just became my passion.

01:35:41.505 --> 01:35:43.185
There was nothing else I wanted to do.

01:35:43.765 --> 01:35:49.765
But I had a, a background that did
prepare me for nonprofit work, and that

01:35:49.765 --> 01:35:55.735
did prepare me to understand the, those
other things, how to fundraise, how to

01:35:55.735 --> 01:36:02.135
write a grant, how to develop a board the
difference between governance and doing.

01:36:02.205 --> 01:36:06.615
And I, so I feel, and so I've
created my role at Renew.

01:36:06.615 --> 01:36:08.835
So I am in both worlds.

01:36:08.895 --> 01:36:12.075
Yeah, I'm res fully responsible
for both worlds, but I have people

01:36:12.075 --> 01:36:16.305
around me supporting me so that
I'm not the only one doing that.

01:36:16.305 --> 01:36:21.775
But in that sense I also recognize
that most people aren't able

01:36:21.775 --> 01:36:23.725
to keep a foot on both sides.

01:36:23.815 --> 01:36:27.595
And that's completely fine
because I think everyone should.

01:36:28.240 --> 01:36:32.470
Like, I, I think we should be recruiting
people into equine assisted services who

01:36:32.470 --> 01:36:39.610
are, who are MBAs, who are accountants,
who are, you know, know that side

01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:46.270
and but, but get so excited about our
mission that they wanna, they wanna help.

01:36:46.360 --> 01:36:47.140
That's who our board.

01:36:47.140 --> 01:36:47.230
Yes.

01:36:47.230 --> 01:36:47.590
It's because at the

01:36:47.590 --> 01:36:49.840
Rupert Isaacson: moment we get those
people, if they have, if they have

01:36:49.840 --> 01:36:53.920
kids that we're serving and then
they become part of the organization.

01:36:53.920 --> 01:36:56.380
But we don't necessarily
get them if, if we don't.

01:36:56.380 --> 01:36:56.680
Yeah.

01:36:56.770 --> 01:36:57.280
Melissa Connor: If we don't.

01:36:57.310 --> 01:36:59.020
No, you and you're exactly right.

01:36:59.260 --> 01:37:01.840
But I do think, and I'll,
I'll, I'll use my, I.

01:37:02.455 --> 01:37:04.855
My son really quickly 'cause he
just shared this with me over

01:37:04.855 --> 01:37:10.155
the weekend and my, my son is 29
and he had a stroke during birth.

01:37:10.155 --> 01:37:15.375
He is, he really helped open my eyes to
help people learn differently and hit

01:37:15.435 --> 01:37:17.595
developmental milestones differently.

01:37:18.135 --> 01:37:24.435
And but anyway, Tommy is a, a, a
web designer is in the IT world

01:37:24.435 --> 01:37:28.245
now in his late twenties, but,
and he's working for a company.

01:37:28.245 --> 01:37:29.295
He enjoys his job.

01:37:29.295 --> 01:37:33.675
He is great at his job, but he did
just share with me, he's like, I'm

01:37:33.675 --> 01:37:36.045
just helping this company get richer.

01:37:37.455 --> 01:37:42.525
So feeling a little like, I wish I
was spending my days doing something.

01:37:43.500 --> 01:37:46.050
That was making a difference
in the world, other than just

01:37:46.080 --> 01:37:47.460
making this company richer.

01:37:47.730 --> 01:37:51.770
So, which, you know, as a mom,
I was like, oh, I love that.

01:37:51.770 --> 01:37:52.940
I want you to get, you know,

01:37:53.090 --> 01:37:55.010
Rupert Isaacson: tell them to
make that donation to renew

01:37:57.410 --> 01:37:58.130
all in Michigan.

01:37:58.610 --> 01:38:02.720
Melissa Connor: But I, I love that in
his generation that he was feeling that.

01:38:02.720 --> 01:38:05.570
And now he does vol, you know,
he does some volunteer work and

01:38:05.570 --> 01:38:07.520
he volunteers some IT stuff.

01:38:07.520 --> 01:38:12.290
And believe me, he was my IT
support for many, many, many years.

01:38:12.500 --> 01:38:16.640
I bet just you know, our, did our first
website and all of that, but it, I think

01:38:16.640 --> 01:38:22.160
we need to tap into that, wanting to
give back what gives meaning to life.

01:38:22.190 --> 01:38:22.280
Mm-hmm.

01:38:22.520 --> 01:38:28.890
People most people feel good making
a financial donation, a donation

01:38:28.890 --> 01:38:30.600
of their time, talent, treasure.

01:38:31.100 --> 01:38:34.610
And, but we, we need to be
networking with people and giving

01:38:34.610 --> 01:38:37.100
them opportunities so that.

01:38:37.940 --> 01:38:42.080
A center, a riding center can develop
in a balanced way so that you can

01:38:42.080 --> 01:38:47.750
have a budget, so you can be able to
hire the right people at the right

01:38:47.750 --> 01:38:50.540
time and pay them a living wage.

01:38:50.630 --> 01:38:53.030
And not just a living
wage, a competitive wage.

01:38:53.130 --> 01:38:57.300
And yeah, I mean, we could talk
for days, so this is needed.

01:38:57.300 --> 01:39:01.590
I've been part of just kind of a movement
within path, trying to educate some

01:39:01.590 --> 01:39:04.590
people on how to think strategically.

01:39:04.830 --> 01:39:04.920
Mm-hmm.

01:39:05.400 --> 01:39:07.200
Melissa Connor: And some
of these business side.

01:39:07.540 --> 01:39:11.940
I'm always happy to talk to people, love
connecting with people around the country

01:39:11.940 --> 01:39:15.990
or around the world if, and so would
love to continue those conversations.

01:39:15.990 --> 01:39:18.660
But I think you're right, more
of a think tank is needed.

01:39:18.735 --> 01:39:23.070
A, a greater support system is
needed so that people aren't just

01:39:23.070 --> 01:39:24.870
out on their own trying to do it.

01:39:24.870 --> 01:39:29.310
And then all of a sudden they realize,
wait, I didn't, I didn't do X, Y,

01:39:29.310 --> 01:39:34.750
and Z and now I'm in danger of, you
know, losing my 5 0 1 C3 nonprofit

01:39:34.750 --> 01:39:38.500
status here in America, or, you know,
or something like that because I

01:39:38.500 --> 01:39:40.240
forgot to file a right piece of paper.

01:39:40.540 --> 01:39:44.940
So there needs to be somebody paying
attention to that side of things too.

01:39:45.270 --> 01:39:49.710
And thinking 10, 20, 50 years down
the road, because this industry

01:39:49.710 --> 01:39:51.600
is growing is the fastest growing.

01:39:51.780 --> 01:39:53.010
It really is in one industry.

01:39:53.220 --> 01:39:53.850
Rupert Isaacson: No, it really is.

01:39:53.850 --> 01:39:54.300
It really is.

01:39:54.300 --> 01:39:55.500
And it's only going to grow more.

01:39:55.980 --> 01:39:56.310
Melissa Connor: Yeah.

01:39:56.310 --> 01:40:01.080
So we just need to equip people
to, to sustain it into the future.

01:40:01.770 --> 01:40:04.710
Rupert Isaacson: So their listeners where,
where's, what's your five year plan?

01:40:05.910 --> 01:40:06.900
What's your 10 year plan?

01:40:06.900 --> 01:40:07.680
What's your 20 year plan?

01:40:07.860 --> 01:40:09.270
Actually, let's not use the word plan.

01:40:09.330 --> 01:40:10.320
Let's use the word dream.

01:40:10.770 --> 01:40:11.280
Dream.

01:40:11.370 --> 01:40:11.730
Yeah.

01:40:12.240 --> 01:40:13.170
Because yeah.

01:40:13.170 --> 01:40:14.190
What are you excited?

01:40:14.190 --> 01:40:15.420
Where are you excited to go?

01:40:15.810 --> 01:40:17.370
Not where do you feel you ought to go?

01:40:18.315 --> 01:40:20.610
Or I guess we should go over here.

01:40:21.030 --> 01:40:24.780
What, what makes your heart light up?

01:40:26.370 --> 01:40:27.960
With, because I've generally found that.

01:40:30.450 --> 01:40:32.400
Effectiveness seems to follow excitement.

01:40:32.430 --> 01:40:32.520
Mm-hmm.

01:40:33.570 --> 01:40:38.190
Anything that I've not been so excited
about, I might have been able to pull

01:40:38.190 --> 01:40:43.380
it off, but it always felt that it
came at a massive cost of energy.

01:40:44.130 --> 01:40:44.430
You know?

01:40:44.430 --> 01:40:47.370
And as you know, that the stuff one's
excited about, one just doesn't even

01:40:47.370 --> 01:40:48.810
notice really, the work one puts in.

01:40:48.810 --> 01:40:51.990
It's just like, it almost
feels recreational.

01:40:52.650 --> 01:40:53.640
Melissa Connor: Absolutely.

01:40:53.700 --> 01:40:55.560
And that's, that's what happened to me.

01:40:55.590 --> 01:40:57.960
I was so excited when I
started as a volunteer.

01:40:58.410 --> 01:41:02.970
I found myself thinking about the horses,
thinking about the students, thinking

01:41:02.970 --> 01:41:07.260
about how, what if I was the instructor
in that class, what would I teach?

01:41:07.260 --> 01:41:08.100
How would I do that?

01:41:08.100 --> 01:41:09.750
How would I, yeah.

01:41:09.810 --> 01:41:11.160
How would I condition this horse?

01:41:11.160 --> 01:41:15.300
How would I, what would I, so then
just grad doors start opening up,

01:41:15.360 --> 01:41:16.410
you know, when there's a need.

01:41:16.410 --> 01:41:21.120
And then I had a chance to,
to fill some of those needs.

01:41:21.120 --> 01:41:24.705
And it, it, it did, it felt
like a, it was a passion.

01:41:24.705 --> 01:41:26.085
I couldn't not do it.

01:41:28.980 --> 01:41:29.490
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

01:41:29.820 --> 01:41:32.820
That, that grabbing by the

01:41:35.490 --> 01:41:38.880
collar, that seems to happen
with life and we get pulled in.

01:41:39.060 --> 01:41:39.180
Yeah.

01:41:39.180 --> 01:41:43.830
I'm very glad it happened to you
because you're doing extremely,

01:41:43.830 --> 01:41:45.300
extremely good work out there.

01:41:45.420 --> 01:41:50.310
And work I look for, I just look really
look forward to seeing how you develop it.

01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:53.670
And you're sort of in that geographic
hub in the Midwest there that what you

01:41:53.670 --> 01:41:56.340
do can really radiate out and influence.

01:41:57.300 --> 01:42:00.780
So we are sort of right
now at the two hour mark.

01:42:00.890 --> 01:42:04.070
Do you have any last thoughts?

01:42:04.070 --> 01:42:11.720
Do you do, is there anything that you
would like listeners to go away with from

01:42:12.470 --> 01:42:15.620
their time with you or that you would
really encourage them to think about?

01:42:16.400 --> 01:42:20.570
Not every, you know, there's newbies
listening here, there's seasoned

01:42:20.570 --> 01:42:23.240
campaigners and all points in between.

01:42:24.260 --> 01:42:25.250
What would your closing,

01:42:27.240 --> 01:42:28.290
Melissa Connor: Another great question.

01:42:28.350 --> 01:42:33.370
I, I love I've loved getting to know you.

01:42:33.460 --> 01:42:40.300
I've loved the Horse Boy method since
I learned about it, you know, 15 years

01:42:40.300 --> 01:42:42.130
ago or so when your book came out.

01:42:42.230 --> 01:42:48.230
And even though I was in Path
International, I think there's a so

01:42:48.260 --> 01:42:51.860
much that we can learn from each other.

01:42:52.220 --> 01:42:59.570
So I choose to continue to learn,
continue to kind of keep an open mind.

01:42:59.900 --> 01:42:59.960
Hmm.

01:43:00.200 --> 01:43:06.770
I loved learning the Teke method and
I'm so excited to incorporate that more

01:43:06.770 --> 01:43:09.380
fully into our conditioning program and.

01:43:09.785 --> 01:43:12.965
Into our service offerings at Renew.

01:43:13.625 --> 01:43:15.845
And that is a whole new thought.

01:43:15.845 --> 01:43:19.265
Like, I didn't know that that was gonna
be something I'd be excited about.

01:43:19.265 --> 01:43:26.105
So I think just being open to
learning from those who have

01:43:26.345 --> 01:43:28.355
paved the way ahead of us.

01:43:28.705 --> 01:43:34.945
I also know when something doesn't
resonate with my core values and.

01:43:35.560 --> 01:43:37.030
And, and that's okay.

01:43:37.090 --> 01:43:40.990
But I also think just sharing,
having having your people, have

01:43:40.990 --> 01:43:42.280
your team, have your community.

01:43:42.580 --> 01:43:44.710
And it can be, it can be
global, like you said.

01:43:44.710 --> 01:43:48.910
It doesn't have to just be geographically
in one location, but people that

01:43:48.910 --> 01:43:55.740
you can lean on, discuss with bounce
ideas off of keep learning, keep

01:43:55.740 --> 01:43:58.980
growing because I'm excited about the
future of equine assisted services.

01:43:59.130 --> 01:44:01.950
I think, I think we're just
at the tip of the iceberg.

01:44:02.040 --> 01:44:02.640
I think.

01:44:03.300 --> 01:44:10.020
I think that these program offerings,
every person who deals with a disability

01:44:10.020 --> 01:44:14.400
or a challenge to their daily living,
I think deserves the chance to have a

01:44:14.400 --> 01:44:20.970
meaningful interaction with a horse and
that can potentially change their life.

01:44:20.970 --> 01:44:23.790
And our vision statement at
Renew is positive life change

01:44:23.790 --> 01:44:25.440
with every horse experience.

01:44:25.650 --> 01:44:25.740
Mm-hmm.

01:44:25.980 --> 01:44:27.360
And we try to have that.

01:44:28.275 --> 01:44:34.215
Caring environment, positive energy,
so that there's a chance for that life

01:44:34.215 --> 01:44:36.495
transformation because of what we do.

01:44:36.585 --> 01:44:39.435
And I think we all, all of us in
this world have the opportunity

01:44:39.765 --> 01:44:41.775
to offer that out to the world.

01:44:41.835 --> 01:44:43.185
And that just excites me.

01:44:44.115 --> 01:44:44.565
Rupert Isaacson: Brilliant.

01:44:44.835 --> 01:44:45.105
Yeah.

01:44:45.135 --> 01:44:45.885
Stay curious.

01:44:45.885 --> 01:44:46.395
Basically.

01:44:46.815 --> 01:44:47.475
Melissa Connor: Basically, yeah.

01:44:48.030 --> 01:44:50.265
Rupert Isaacson: Keep challenging
yourself, keep learning new stuff.

01:44:50.895 --> 01:44:51.075
Yeah.

01:44:51.080 --> 01:44:52.425
I couldn't, I couldn't agree more.

01:44:52.545 --> 01:44:52.965
Absolutely.

01:44:52.965 --> 01:44:53.715
Couldn't agree more.

01:44:54.045 --> 01:44:57.135
And there's so much new, exciting stuff
happening out there, like the stuff with

01:44:57.135 --> 01:44:59.385
Lynn Thomas with Arenas for Change and

01:44:59.685 --> 01:45:00.345
Melissa Connor: Oh yeah.

01:45:00.405 --> 01:45:03.795
Rupert Isaacson: The mental health
and the, the, the way which the,

01:45:04.280 --> 01:45:13.665
I, I, I, I feel that the field
is both broadening and each Yeah.

01:45:13.665 --> 01:45:17.835
It's like there is now much more
cross-fertilization happening and I

01:45:17.835 --> 01:45:21.495
think that's people voting with their
feet, you know, where some of the

01:45:21.495 --> 01:45:25.605
organizations were some years ago, quite.

01:45:27.240 --> 01:45:29.520
Not so open to that sort of thing.

01:45:29.520 --> 01:45:31.740
But I think a lot of the members
were just like, well, hold on.

01:45:32.310 --> 01:45:33.510
We are interested in everything.

01:45:33.510 --> 01:45:36.600
That's why we sort of got into you in
the first place, you know, because we

01:45:36.600 --> 01:45:40.590
are generally interested, why wouldn't
we be interested in five or six things?

01:45:40.590 --> 01:45:44.670
And I always encourage, you know,
any place I go to do trainings, it's,

01:45:44.970 --> 01:45:49.530
please don't just do horse boy tech
and stuff, please do 5, 6, 7, 8 other

01:45:49.530 --> 01:45:52.830
things because you just don't know
who's gonna walk through that door.

01:45:52.830 --> 01:45:57.450
You need more resources than my stuff
you need, you know, that's just common

01:45:57.450 --> 01:46:03.450
sense 1, 1 1 needs a, a sort of faculty
of, of, of, of resources, you know,

01:46:03.450 --> 01:46:06.000
just like a university would or, yeah.

01:46:06.110 --> 01:46:06.530
So

01:46:06.740 --> 01:46:07.100
absolutely.

01:46:07.280 --> 01:46:10.970
Rupert Isaacson: I think you sort of
represent that to me, I think that that

01:46:12.710 --> 01:46:15.740
positive outlook 'cause that that positive
outlook's actually the effective outlook.

01:46:15.740 --> 01:46:20.180
It's actually the practical
outlook that just, I

01:46:20.180 --> 01:46:22.460
Melissa Connor: like it, like
you said, it's a, it's a.

01:46:23.420 --> 01:46:24.560
Service driven.

01:46:24.560 --> 01:46:28.190
It's about the child, it's about
the adult, it's about the the

01:46:28.190 --> 01:46:30.290
person coming to us for services.

01:46:30.290 --> 01:46:31.280
It's not about us.

01:46:32.180 --> 01:46:34.940
So have to stay humble and curious.

01:46:36.170 --> 01:46:37.310
Rupert Isaacson: So
how do people find you?

01:46:37.310 --> 01:46:38.090
Give us the website.

01:46:38.780 --> 01:46:39.620
Melissa Connor: Oh, sure.

01:46:40.070 --> 01:46:44.550
It's renew, R-E-N-E-W-T-R-C dot org.

01:46:45.270 --> 01:46:47.520
Rupert Isaacson: Renew trc.org.

01:46:47.610 --> 01:46:49.230
We'll have that obviously in the notes.

01:46:49.350 --> 01:46:49.440
Mm-hmm.

01:46:49.800 --> 01:46:50.490
Any other stuff?

01:46:50.495 --> 01:46:52.040
Instagram's Facebooky things.

01:46:52.730 --> 01:46:53.060
Melissa Connor: Yep.

01:46:53.090 --> 01:46:55.100
We're on, we're on Facebook and Instagram.

01:46:55.100 --> 01:46:57.200
Renew Therapeutic Writing Center.

01:46:57.500 --> 01:46:57.680
Rupert Isaacson: Perfect.

01:46:57.680 --> 01:46:58.040
Fall into

01:46:58.040 --> 01:46:58.520
Melissa Connor: Michigan.

01:46:58.850 --> 01:46:59.120
Yep.

01:46:59.240 --> 01:46:59.510
Rupert Isaacson: Alright.

01:46:59.930 --> 01:47:01.520
And they can email you through there.

01:47:01.760 --> 01:47:02.630
Contact you through, yep.

01:47:02.900 --> 01:47:03.260
Brilliant.

01:47:04.070 --> 01:47:04.220
Melissa Connor: Yep.

01:47:04.310 --> 01:47:04.580
Alright.

01:47:04.580 --> 01:47:04.850
Absolutely.

01:47:04.850 --> 01:47:05.060
Well,

01:47:05.990 --> 01:47:06.830
Rupert Isaacson: we'll do this again.

01:47:06.930 --> 01:47:09.240
Hopefully let's, let's see
how things go in a year.

01:47:09.300 --> 01:47:09.870
Come back on.

01:47:09.870 --> 01:47:10.470
Tell us where you're at.

01:47:11.145 --> 01:47:11.805
Melissa Connor: Alright.

01:47:11.805 --> 01:47:12.375
Sounds great.

01:47:13.515 --> 01:47:14.805
Thank you so much, Rupert.

01:47:14.955 --> 01:47:15.345
I enjoyed it.

01:47:15.345 --> 01:47:15.555
My pleasure.

01:47:15.555 --> 01:47:16.605
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you for coming on.

01:47:16.746 --> 01:47:19.866
I hope you enjoyed today's
conversation as much as I did.

01:47:20.406 --> 01:47:25.306
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01:47:25.316 --> 01:47:29.486
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01:48:25.101 --> 01:48:27.911
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