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 (Gentle Music)

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 Hey, Dr. Mindy here, and welcome to the Live Like a Girl podcast, where I bring you icons, disruptors, educators, scientists, and doctors that show you what can be possible when you love and celebrate the female body you are blessed to live in. Let's dive in.

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 Right now, there are 8 million women in the United States living through perimenopause. Two million more will cross into perimenopause this year alone. That's not a niche experience. That's an entire generation of women quietly, white-knuckling their way through a season nobody prepared them for. Not only have I been through the perimenopause experience myself, but I've also had a front row seat to what this season looks like for a musical artist the world has adored since she was a child, Leanne Rimes. Many of you know her as the youngest Grammy Award-winning singer-songwriter who blasted into the country music scene at the tender age of 14 years old with her epic song, "Blue." Personally, I know her as a humble, kind, creative, and incredibly intelligent woman who three years ago reached out to me for help as she was drowning in her perimenopause symptoms. For the past three years, I've had the pleasure of walking alongside Leanne, helping her find the right health tools to smooth her incredibly turbulent perimenopausal ride. I've witnessed her stand in front of thousands of people and sing with a depth of love that literally brings you to your knees. I've also watched her offstage wrestle with the confusion, insecurity, rage, anxiety, and depression that accompanies the perimenopausal journey. I've sat with her as she's had to make the excruciating decision to cancel sold-out shows because her body simply couldn't go anymore. And in that same moment, I've watched her rediscover new parts of herself as she continues to learn that her body needing rest doesn't make her any less worthy. She spent her entire life in performance mode. As early as 14 years old, she handed her life over to the music world and moved into a tour bus where her every day became about entertaining others. She had to show up, look beautiful, put on a happy face, and perform no matter how she felt underneath the lights. And now, in her 40s, she's doing something I think is far braver than any performance. She's very publicly letting people watch her navigate her perimenopausal journey in all of its messiness, openly falling apart at moments and then learning how to put herself back together in real time for us all to see. We talk a lot on this show about the zone of chaos, that stretch of perimenopause where everything that used to work stops working and your body starts sending you messages in a language you were never taught to read. Rage comes out of nowhere. Anxiety that used to live in your head now lives in your skin. And you discover a body that finally, after decades of being pushed past its limits, starts refusing to be ignored.

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 That is why I have brought you my dear friend, Leanne Rimes. You know her voice. It's the one that made her a Grammy winner at 14 years old. That's carried her through three decades in music that she's actually celebrating right now with the 30th anniversary of Blue. You may also know her from the screen, from Coyote Ugly and currently starring in 911 Nashville. What you may not know is how long she's been quietly doing deep work, the trauma work, the nervous system work, to become the woman sitting across from me in this conversation. In this episode, Leanne and I go to the places we always go when it's just the two of us. Control as a trauma response, what rage is really trying to tell us, whether the body forgets how to rest after a lifetime of overriding it, and what it means to let yourself be loved for exactly who you are becoming, not just who you used to be. If you ever felt like your body stopped cooperating with the plan you had for your life, I think you're going to see yourself in this incredible conversation. So again, without further ado, let's dive in my sweet friend, Leanne Rimes. Okay, my friend, this is where I want to start this conversation. I looked up a statistic this morning. There are 8 million women in the United States right now in perimenopause. That's a lot. It's a lot, and there's 2 million that enter perimenopause every single year. So from your perspective, what has been the hardest part of being deep into your perimenopausal years?

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 I'm in it right now. Like, I mean, today's a day for me, and it's been a few really rough months.

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 So I think there are several. One of the biggest things for me is the inconsistency,

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 because I, in my type A brain, and with how disciplined I am with my health and with my life, I feel like in my mind, if I do all these things, right, it should at least, I should have some kind of consistency. And I'm at the point right now where I can find a consistent rhythm for a short period of time, and then something shifts, and then I'm chasing it again. And I am exhausted by that, to be really honest. And it's just, I haven't gotten to the place yet to where I've completely surrendered to the inconsistency. I wish I could say that I have. Interesting.

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 I wish I could say I have, but it's hard for me when my life demands a consistent output. And I think a lot of people, I mean, whether you have a job like I do that's public facing, or you have children who are in constant need of your attention, whatever it may be, our lives demand a certain kind of consistent output. And when you can't provide that output,

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 or honestly, I still do, but I also am very depleted when I provide that output sometimes. Would you call yourself a control freak?

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 Maybe.

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 Yes, out of safety, it's a safety to keep myself safe. I mean, it definitely is a trauma response. And it's actually gotten worse as I've gone into period of pause. I think a lot of things have gotten worse as a real period of pause. Like the OCD brain, I mean, I've never been actually diagnosed with OCD, although I have very obsessive thinking sometimes,

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 obsessive anxiety. And again, I think that kind of goes back to a trauma response of when so many things in my life have been so out of control, whether it be family at a young age or being in the public eye in my job for so long, I need to be able to control my environment to some degree. And I think because when we start losing all of those hormones, it gets louder. So I think, and I've been doing a lot of trauma work as, well, we can get into this, but I've been doing, I think a break because I've done so much work on myself. And I think it took a few years of a break where I just needed to live and not work on things. And then you introduced me to Frank and Frank Anderson, who I absolutely adore. He's amazing. He is the sweetest person ever. And I have really started to dive back into a lot of my trauma with him. And so I think it's opening up a lot of wounds. And so, yeah, it's been really loud. Yeah, you've been publicly really transparent with people about anxiety. And when you and I met, I remember that was a big, almost, I will say, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, almost like part of your identity of like I deal with anxiety. How has it changed when you've gone into perimenopause? Like, because I've seen your pattern of anxiety change over the last several years where it's gotten better and you and I've had incredible conversations about how it doesn't show up as much anymore. And then I think a lot of women, as you get deeper and deeper into perimenopause, the anxiety looks very different. Yes, it does look different. I actually, in the past, I've not known where it's coming from sometimes. And now in perimenopause, I'm pretty clear about what's going on and where my anxiety is coming from. Where's it coming from? Well, from lack of progesterone, when my hormones are out of balance, when I haven't gotten enough sleep from lack of progesterone. There are, I have context around it, I think, now.

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 To me, the anxiety can show up differently, especially when I haven't slept, or if I am really low on progesterone, my body gets anxious, so there's like a buzzing that happens underneath the skin that becomes more body anxiety than worry anxiety. That's actually a good, if I think about it, my anxiety in the past has been more worry anxiety,

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 where I couldn't control things and I was really afraid of, from, again, a trauma response of things going wrong, and that I couldn't handle,

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 I couldn't handle more pain, enough pain. So I think that anxiety in the past was probably more worry and mental than now my anxiety when it shows up is more body anxiety.

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 And that can be super uncomfortable, super, super uncomfortable. I think, you know what, you bring up a really good point because we don't call, we don't look at brain and body anxiety differently. And I would absolutely say that when I went into perimenopause, that there was this body anxiety. For me, it showed up as like, I can't sit. I just couldn't sit and calm myself. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't even get my, you know, it was almost like I'd had 10 cups of coffee. Like I was trying to get to sleep and then your body just jolts alive. Yeah, so what just so weak, because I know a lot of people listening to this are gonna be like, I have that. I feel that, I see myself in that. As I have the outside of working with progesterone and getting good, the right prescription and doing all the lifestyle tools. Is there anything you can do in that moment that tends to help the body anxiety?

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 I'm still figuring that out for myself, to be really honest. Cause my body anxiety will show up,

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 it'll show up mid-day. Like you're saying, it feels like I've, I always say it feels like someone's put me into the wall socket. Yeah. And it shows up when I'm traveling a lot, when I can't move on a plane. I do know one thing, and I know this sounds really simple, but it's true. Shaking your body and walking. If it's during the day, I find that if I go take a walk,

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 or I have a little rebound or a trampoline, that reminds me of being a kid and it is joyful. So I go and bounce on it for five minutes, even just anything to get your body moving and to move some of that energy.

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 Planking, squats, if you can't move out anywhere, like if you're in one place, squats, jumping jacks, just move.

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 Another thing, it shows up for me really early in the morning. I usually wake up around 2.30 or 3.30, something around that time. And I try to lay there and kind of breathe back to sleep. Sometimes like this morning, I couldn't. And I just, I stopped fighting myself and I just get up and start my day. Get up and move. And I plan on, if I'm tired, that's another thing I've been really working on in therapy because tired energy to me has been, it feels like, it feels threatening because of how much I've had to constantly override that feeling in order to go work. And so I'm really trying to work on a new relationship with the energy of tired. And so I've, like last night, I only slept five hours. I woke up at three o'clock this morning and I knew I could not go back to sleep. My body was just so ready to get up. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna get up. And if I'm tired in the middle of the day, I'm gonna take a nap. So I've just like made a deal with myself. Like, okay, we can get up now, but if we're tired later, we're not gonna fight through it. We're not gonna coffee through it. We're actually gonna go take a nap. So I think that that's really important. I love hearing that because I always tell you, you only know your life, right? You don't know what it's like to be in somebody else's childhood experiences, but yours was crazy unusual. And I've heard you tell stories before of like at 14, how you have to get on a stage despite feeling horrible, you had to show up and perform. I'm curious, that's what your nervous system knows. And what I know from a lot of women that go into perimenopause is those things we could tolerate and push through in our younger years, become the things that all of a sudden we're like, we can't do this anymore. Have you been able to change your schedule? Like, have you been able to give yourself permission to rest? Or is that still really hard in a Leanne Rimes life? I mean, it's still hard. I have him juggling a lot of things currently. I'm touring, I'm working on a TV show, I'm writing and doing whatever else creatively that comes to mind.

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 But I do know there are limits. And that's, I think one of the hardest things to admit. Yeah, it's so hard. Is that I have limitations. Yeah, yep, it's so hard. And as we're sitting here talking, I feel like it's this therapy for me because I really do. Because I recognize some of this anger that we'll get into, that's really been showing up for me is when I have to override, when I'm exhausted.

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 And I know better, like I know better, but I'm still doing it.

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 And I think, we're getting there. I mean, look, when I come home, I do rest. I mean, there's no, like, I used to have a really hard time just laying on the couch and not doing anything. And now I love laying on the couch and watching a TV show. Like, I'm okay with that. So we've made big strides. That's a step forward.

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 That's huge. In resting.

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 But I also have to say,

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 there's also been other parts of my health that have really played into I'm Tired. You know, my mitochondrial health, I've been working on, and my gut health was really, really, really bad at the beginning of this year that I worked on. And I feel like having a few other pieces of the puzzle have, has allowed me to really help my body in other ways where hormones may be fighting against me. Now I have a little bit of control over here with some other places where I can make some strides. And I think that's been helping my energy too. I feel, I actually, the crazy conundrum and weird dichotomy of this whole thing is I actually don't feel bad. I feel good. From a physical level or from a mental level? Yeah, from a physical level. I actually have more energy recently than I've had in a really long time because I've taken care of these other pieces of my health. So much. Even though the hormone situation is just up and down, you know? Right, right. But I also, like you said, I also do know how, I do know how to rest, but though there are times when I just know my schedule is my schedule. And it's, when I've been doing it, the way I've been doing it for so long, it's so hard to change. Yeah. Even though, you know, look, I did 500 shows in the first three and a half years of my career. So we'd be lucky to hit 60 now. So it has changed, you know? Like things have changed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and do you feel the pressure? You know, I think a lot of women feel the pressure to keep up with the pace of their younger self. I know I did. It's just taken, I mean, I'm 56 and it's just recently taken me till now to tell my team, look, I can't do the level of work I used to be able to do. And mostly because when I push myself, there's like a tipping point. There's a point when the schedule gets so full that it tips me over and then the rage shows up, which we'll talk about in the moment. So I've learned to keep and curate my schedule in a way that just takes me right to that edge. But wow, that took many years to finally say, guess what, I can't do the same pace. Are you finding the same thing that you're having to verbalize? Like I can't do as many shows. I, you know, I've watched you recently get sick and cancel shows. And as painful as that was, I've never seen you make that decision so effortlessly before. Yeah, it's hard. That's really, really hard to have to cancel things. I feel gutted and just to disappoint people.

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 But when you're not well, you're not well. I mean, there's just, there's no way around it. So I have, yeah, I think it's a really hard one for me to come to terms with, although I am very aware of it. Like I'm very aware. And I do things differently. And, you know, I have great people around me who I have a wonderful manager in Darryl who you know, who is like an agent that really put people's health before, you know, before work in business and touring. And I think having the right people to be able to verbalize this is how, you know, this is how I'm feeling and really be authentic and honest and have them support you is really important. I mean, I just did it with Eddie the other night. I just said, I don't have the capacity I have anymore. Like you have to have anymore. Like my capacity is dwindling. And I feel like I'm doing more than ever now because I'm also on top of, you know, when I travel, like I have a health bag that every, they're so, when you get older, like all of a sudden you need more things. And I'm like, and I've been dealing with acid reflux. So I've been like, I literally carry everything with me from coffee to, you know, humidifiers to pillows, to like all the things. And I feel like I'm having, I can't just like delegate a part of my life. Like it's me that has to take care of it. And so I feel like there's just so much to take care of. And my capacity for everything is getting smaller. Yeah. Yeah. And so- And I think that changes too. I just want to tell you that when, yeah, no, because I'm in a process of rehabbing my nervous system right now. I'm very, very conscious of it. But I also, as I take the time to just do like three, two thirds of what I used to do, I can feel my strength, my moods, everything come back into balance. And you know, you look at people like Jane Fonda, Jamie Lee Curtis, like Julie Louis Dreyfus, like people who are just killing it in that back half of their life. I think it's that perimenopause, they call it the zone of chaos. That is the moment where it is the hardest. And honestly, I think it's intriguing that we have so many celebrities that are standing up and sharing their journey, because unfortunately you all were watching you go up and down in the public eye. Do you, have you noticed like Halle Berry and other people that are just standing out? Do you think it's harder to go through this experience as a celebrity? Oh, absolutely. I mean, to have people constantly commenting on the way you look or the way you've acted in something, you know, on something or, I mean, if somebody saw me go through the airport, somebody actually commented on my posts the other day, oh, you look happier and healthier than when I saw you at LAX. And I literally went back to them and I was like, who looks happy and healthy traveling? They were like, they were like, good point. We're at LAX. I was like, hello. They bid to LAX. Yeah, what? But I think it when I can, because you, you know, I'm Leanne Rimes, like I can't have a moment where I snap at somebody in the TSA line or I can't, you know what I mean? It's like, everything becomes so much more of this bigger issue when it's no, I'm just a woman who's got Berry menopause, who doesn't wanna be traveling right now? Like, you know, and so I think it's, and then like I said, people constantly commenting on your appearance and aging. I mean, that is a thing and, you know, if you do too much, then there's people commenting on that. If you do too little, there's people commenting on that. If you, you know, I haven't done anything to my face and people are always like, oh my gosh, you know, not always, there's a few people I see will be like, oh, she's aged so, you know, not very gracefully. And I'm like, but this is what a normal face looks like. Like you're so used to seeing people with faces who don't move. Yes, yeah. I think we've gotten so skewed on, and even I, like I'm, you know, now on 911 Nashville, I watch me on screen and like my face moves. There's other people's faces don't move. And I'm like, oh my God, I see wrinkles. And it's so hard not to judge yourself. Oh yeah. Yeah, but I told you, I felt more connected to your character because I could, you know, you could see your facial expressions. Yes, and it's true. And I wouldn't wanna take that away from me as an actress or as a performer on stage, you know? I mean, I want, I'm such an expressive human being and so emotional. And I wouldn't want that to not be able to come through. It's just part of what I, you know, you do my job.

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 Do you worry about aging? Do you fear like what happens? You know, I think a lot of women are like, if I get wrinkles and I get gray hair and I start to look old, I'm gonna be tossed aside. But you tend times that for a celebrity who, you know, will I become irrelevant? Will people not wanna hear from me anymore? What kind of thoughts do you worry about when it comes to aging?

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 Oh, I mean, all of that, all of what you just said, like, and also, you know, where,

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 and I feel like it's also what makes, like I'm not opposed, I see women getting face lifts and they look great and they do it before and after. And I'm like, oh, I can see why someone would want to do that. And they look great. And I'm like, good for them. Like, I'm not, for me, it's to each their own when it comes to things like that. And I'm not opposed to it. And I'm not also running out to do it either. So I think it just, it's just to me, aging is a day by day experience. And I'm never gonna say never on anything because I don't know what I'm gonna feel, you know. And how you're gonna, yeah. Five, 10 years, whatever it is. But as long as I really, really understanding that, you know, phrase that we all say, like, you know, if you don't have your health and you don't have anything, it's like, to me, ultimately, that's what, I just wanna feel good more than, I mean, looking good is, it used to be, it used to come first. And I think now it's, I just want to feel good. I'll take care of the look of everything after that. Later on, yeah. But like, the feeling good is so important. I can see that. Yeah, I just, because I've gone through so much of my life, and I'm sure a lot of people have, where we just don't feel good.

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 And when I feel good, like, everything else kind of falls into place. I, yeah, a thousand percent agree with that. You were recently interviewed, Maria Shriver interviewed you with, it was a sweet interview. And I was so happy when you were, when you talked about the rage part of menopause. Yeah, and I have some theories on why a lot of women are, and I just read a time, I sent it to you, it's a Time Magazine article, that they're actually noticing that rage is a very, very common symptom in perimenopause, and they're trying to understand why. Can you help us, I'll share with mine, but let's start with you. How have you seen rage show up? And do you know what you're rageful about?

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 Sometimes, I, I'm working through this in therapy right now. And I, yeah, you know, the word resentment has been something that has kind of lived on the outskirts, like in my peripheral of, I know what it means, but I don't know that I hold it. Yeah. And I'm realizing I hold a lot of it. And it's, for me, it's,

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 I mean, I can, if I really think about it, I resent my career, I resent my voice, I resent my family, I resent, you know what I mean? Like I resent, I resent my health. I have resentment toward, for lack of health, like having psoriasis since I was two. Like there's so many things if I think about, stop and think for a moment. Like I've never,

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 I've never allowed myself to be angry about these things.

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 I've never, I was, anger wasn't acceptable. You know, anger was in my household and I was, I was always punished for it, for being angry. And so I hid my anger for so long. But now that it's come, it just, it just roars to the surface. And my poor husband, I'm like, he was so sweet. He is, I love him to death, but he doesn't even know what to do with it. Like he's like, I don't even think you understand what your tone is right now. And it's just this, I feel it as this literal fire that's like through the center channel of my body. And it can happen, it can happen in conversation, it can happen when I'm driving, it can happen when I'm sitting on the couch, and I literally just wanna tear the room apart for no reason. And I think it's because I haven't allowed this thing called anger to move through me ever. And so it gets triggered by the slightest thing at this phase of my life. And so I have, I'm learning how to move it in a way that's not, that doesn't harm. And that's really hard because the way I grew up around anger is anger harmed.

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 Yeah, and we live in a culture where we don't want our women to be angry and we definitely don't want our sweet little Leanne Rimes who at 14, one, two Grammys, we want you to be kind and sweet and not be angry. So I think, I will continue to say to you, you deserve to rage. You grew up in an environment where there was a huge expectation on you in a world that already expects a lot from women. And on top of that, there's so many of us who have had to suppress our anger because angry women are not what this society and culture knows what to do with. So I just-- And I don't even think our culture knows what to do with anger, period. Like I just said, anger harms. And it does in our culture, look at it. Anger and rage, all we know how to do is move it in a direction of harm. And I think there's gotta be another way. And I think that's what I'm trying to find for myself is,

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 and when I, it's even like I'm learning it in relationship with my husband right now because I'm like, I'm not angry at you. And I know this tone triggers you, but like go with me into this. Like allow me to have it, like witness it and know that it's not at you. And let me rage about whatever it is. Just let me take this tone for like five minutes. Maybe that's what we need to do. I'm like, maybe we need to put it like five minutes on the timer and be like, let me just do this for five minutes and then I'll come out of it. But it needs to go somewhere because it's been literally internalized. That's why I have striasis. And that's why I'm dealing with acid reflux. And that's why I'm dealing with all the things because I've literally turned the fire inside myself.

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 I'm very clear on that. Yeah, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. You know, when I first met you, I still think you're one of the kindest celebrities I ever met. You're one of the most humble celebrities I've ever met. But you know, I'd ask you about certain things like what was that like growing up and doing this? And then she's like, oh, it was okay. It was okay. And I thought, girl, you need to let that out. Like the world hasn't always been incredibly kind to you. And you grew up in the public eye and now you're doing perimenopause in the public eye. But I think for a lot of us,

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 we don't have a relationship with anger and rage and because the culture never taught us to do that. So are you able when you're raging, do you have a sense of what you're raging for and what you're angry about? Do you have childhood memories? Sometimes no, but a lot of the time, right now a lot of my rage is honestly coming out of my lack of capacity. And the demand that is still placed upon me and the output that is needed and the output that's been needed for so long. And the kid that couldn't say, no, I have 104 fever and can't walk on stage tonight. And that's the really hard thing and that I'm trying to pick apart is what am I angry about now? And what has been living in me that is showing itself on this now reality? That's really, I'm angry about the 14 year old or the 14 year old is angry. But right now whatever's presenting in front of me is what's triggering it. And so sometimes it's really hard to pick apart like, am I angry from all those years ago or am I actually angry in this moment? And sometimes it's both.

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 Sometimes it can be both, but I think a lot of my anger is,

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 God, it's just a woman who has to continue to produce. Yes, and that's like-- In a time when I am, my body's stopping producing.

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 Right, oh my God, that's so ironic. I never thought about it that way. Do you know that? I think a lot of women, I think a lot of women feel that way. I know, I felt like that. It was like, do I get to, when do I get to stop now? Like, can I just rest for a moment? And you've had 10 times that kind of life. And I think one of the things that I wanna offer hope to you and to the people listening is I do believe, now that I sit in the post-menopausal years, that that's part of the shedding. That there's this, I need to let go of the person I was to become a new version of myself. And I think what you're gonna find just knowing how smart you are and how intuitive you are and your work with Frank, is you're gonna find as you heal that little girl that wasn't able to rage for herself, you get to be the woman that gets to rage for her now. And then you get to move into a woman who's not rageful. And I think if we don't do that work, I think that's literally the purpose of Perry Menopause is to sit in that trauma for all of us and feel what we have suppressed so we can actually live in that third act of our life, the most authentic version of ourselves. Yeah, yeah. It's just really uncomfortable. Yeah, it's like a detox. It's like a detox. It's so uncomfortable. And I, I mean, I get, like I get why women want to escape this. Like I get why addiction is probably very, very prominent and prevalent at this time in a woman's life. I get why, I understand why the suicide rate is so high. I get why people want out of this.

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 And that's the hardest thing is like, is finding ways to soothe me that I know aren't actually healthy in this phase of my life.

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 And I think about tired. I look, I see how many women push through every day on five coffees and whatever else we're taking. So, and it's, there comes a time and it's interesting, my body's actually done it for me because my health, like when I think of,

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 when I think of the acid reflux that I've been going through these past several months,

[00:36:26:09 - 00:36:45:08]
 I haven't been able to have a glass of wine. I haven't had wine in like four months, whatever it's been. I've, you know, coffee, I've actually had to, I have coffee, but it's very low acid and I actually have to cold brew it because it takes more acid out. So I, and I've, I've literally, because most,

[00:36:46:23 - 00:37:24:04]
 one of the things for me, if something's gonna affect my voice, I'll stop it. And sometimes it takes that, sometimes it takes my body like whittling everything down to this is literally gonna take this away. And I'll finally go, okay, I surrender. You get motivated. I do, I get motivated. But it's really made me face like, oh, where are all the places? Like I was drinking Celsius twice a day and I was like going for a glass and a half, maybe two glasses of wine, you know, most nights. And I was, you know, like for, and so I had to start,

[00:37:25:11 - 00:37:50:22]
 when you start taking those things away, a lot of things get loud, you know, and I'm realizing how much, It's true. Probably anger, I was suppressing with all of these stimulants or, you know, substances. Or depressants, exactly. So, and so yeah, it's been new ways of soothing myself,

[00:37:52:10 - 00:38:19:14]
 have, I'm still finding them, but yeah. What's your experience with HRT been? Because I think a lot of people listening and I've been in so many conversations where when they hear symptoms or like you're talking about, they think, well, just get on the patch. Why don't you just get on the patch and it'll all be better. I'm on the patch. I'm on the patch. Exactly. I'm on the suppository, I'm on the pill, I'm on the everything.

[00:38:22:01 - 00:38:26:11]
 (Laughing) Yeah, no, you know, if it's made, I've tried it.

[00:38:28:12 - 00:38:45:00]
 Yeah, that's just, no, no. And the thing is, is everybody's experience is different. Yes, it does help me. It's great. It definitely helps, but it's not the end all, you know, cure all to everything. You're still gonna have fluctuating hormones.

[00:38:46:03 - 00:38:59:16]
 You know, some days the patch, sometimes I have to use patch and gel because I don't make enough estrogen myself. Some days that's way too much because my ovaries all of a sudden decided to make estrogen again, you know? And it's just this up and down.

[00:39:00:17 - 00:39:25:10]
 And with progesterone, like, you know, I've had too much progesterone, makes me really, really depressed and lethargic, not enough progesterone, I can't freaking sleep. Like, it's literally, I remember my mother and I actually probably apologized to my mother. Yeah, you have empathy now, I do too. I remember when I was a child, you know, she had a hysterectomy right after I was born and she was in her early 30s.

[00:39:26:22 - 00:40:50:23]
 So she was constantly, all I heard in my childhood was like, they're trying to figure my hormones out. And she was constantly going to the doctor to figure out her hormones and change her hormones. And I'm like, what the hell is she doing? I'm not, I'm not. Yeah, now I like, I get it. And it's, it is, it's a moving target, especially in perimenopause. That's why I really honestly can't wait for postmenopause. Yep, it's better. We know the dose. It's better. The dose will be easier to figure out. Right, exactly, it's really true. It's really true. Yeah, do you think, how do you think your life would be, your symptoms would be different if you weren't touring and filming? Do you think it would be different if you were, like sitting at home, playing tennis, whenever you wanted to? I mean, like, I mean, who has that life? Anybody, God bless them if they do. I do think it would be different. I think we all have different stressors. I think mine though, when most people are sitting at, most people are positioned in one place, you know? And so for me, the travel piece of it has, I'm really understanding like how much that affects. I mean, just even a couple of hours, different eating windows, different, you know, traveling in different time zones and sleep, and all of that just starts to affect. And then the demand of performance.

[00:40:52:10 - 00:41:11:03]
 That is, yeah, that's, it's a lot. It's a lot to psych myself up. I mean, people don't understand the drop of dopamine after a performance too, and the body discomfort. So not already, I'm at such a deficit

[00:41:12:13 - 00:41:45:18]
 with when it comes to, you know, being a high performer and constantly having traveling and having all of this different stimuli coming at me and then going and performing and being on a high and then dropping down the next day and then having to rev it up again. So my neurotransmitters are already on a different level of strange and out of balance. And so then you throw, you know, a lack of hormones in there and then they start to go, really go haywire. So that's also something else I'm having to really pay attention to.

[00:41:47:05 - 00:41:50:19]
 Yeah. Is recognizing that that's another level for me.

[00:41:51:22 - 00:43:59:01]
 My feeling on that is when we lose our hormonal rhythm that has been driving us since we were 13, we have to map to a different rhythm. And with the circadian rhythm issue, when you're going in and out of time zones, there's no circadian rhythm to map to. This is why right now I'm like, I needed a year of not traveling to Europe or even traveling to the East coast. I was like, I need to get my circadian, yeah, get my circadian rhythm. And then you have the performative rhythm where you have to rev yourself up, you perform, and then you gotta come back down. But I think that's the key to perimenopause is you've gotta find another rhythm that you can take your nervous system and anchor it to that. And that's where the travel messes you up. I was gonna say, if you could find an anchor for me. That would be great. Believe me, I'm thinking on it. I'm thinking on it. That would be great. Yeah. But it could be little things. Your dog, your dog has a rhythm. She's so sweet and calm, and you can go there and have calmness with your dog. Nature has a rhythm. This is why I think getting out and walking, even if it's in your neighborhood, your neighborhood's beautiful. Just anything that is slow. One trick I learned recently over the last year is think about how quickly you move, how quickly you do the dishes, how quickly you walk, how quickly you get out of bed. And I've been trying to do everything slower and just bring it down so that my parasympathetic nervous system can realize it's safe again. Yes, that is so challenging. I have to say, I've been doing that with food because of the acid reflux that I've been dealing with. One of the things that I've noticed ever since I was a kid, because I've been literally shoving food in my mouth on the go 90% of the time, I eat so fast. And so I have literally,

[00:44:00:07 - 00:46:24:18]
 the craziest thing is that it is so hard to put a plate of food down in front of myself and literally sit and breathe for three breaths. I do that. It is so hard to have food in front of me and not just wanna shove it in my mouth. It is crazy, the automatic response of like, I gotta scarf this down. So I've been stopping and breathing for three breaths and saying, thank you for this food. And then like slowly taking my time to eat. Now, does that happen all the time? No, because I'll literally catch myself halfway through the meal going, oh my God. I did it like, I literally just went right in. And so it's, it just shows you like what you're saying, like how fast we move in. Don't even think twice about it until for me, something as disrupting as, my stomach being so upset that it ruins my day, that finally I'm like, oh, I have to slow down when I eat. And so I just even in that part of my life has been so challenging. I can only imagine, and which is probably something I need to try and incorporate is like moving a little slower through things. It's funny, it's like you're training a little kid. Your nervous system is like a little kid that you're like, okay, we're safe now. We don't need to keep hurrying. I've even like, I'll wash the dishes slowly. A big one that I started doing is when I get out of bed in the morning, I don't jump out of bed. I purposely roll on my side really slow and get out. And I tell myself, it's, you know, you're safe. I have to constantly tell myself, you're safe. This is, today's gonna be a good day because my nervous system was so far through the perimenopausal experience, so far in frazzled that it was like that last piece I had to train to bring it back into a rhythm, you know, rhythm, and like bring it back into a rhythm that my nervous system could finally relax. And I honestly think that's where you're going to find as you go deeper into this perimenopausal experience, that's what you're gonna find is the missing piece. Now, how do you do that in a Leanne Rimes life? Well, no, that's really interesting because I have intuitively been thinking to myself, I need to give myself an extra 20 minutes to get somewhere.

[00:46:26:00 - 00:47:03:09]
 Or I need to, if I know it's gonna take me an hour to get ready, I need to add an extra, I need to start 20 minutes sooner. Like because I just don't, but it is a, you know, I've been, yeah, it is something that I think my body in my mind had intuitively wanting to do. It's just, again, making that change. I started to do it with food. It's one little thing at a time, right? So, but I think my body is calling for that. And it's interesting with rhythm, like even though I travel on different time zones,

[00:47:05:01 - 00:47:07:06]
 I'm really protective of my sleep,

[00:47:08:06 - 00:47:21:21]
 even though I don't get it often. Yeah, you go to bed at eight o'clock at night. I do, I go to, and my step sons make fun of me. They're like, oh, you guys are already in bed at eight. I'm like, well, if one day, one day, maybe you'll understand.

[00:47:22:21 - 00:47:35:22]
 But it is, I just, it's not, and it's funny because it's like they equate that with like, oh, it's an old people thing. And I'm like, no, it's a smart people thing. Right, that's so good, that's so good.

[00:47:37:12 - 00:48:00:18]
 I don't wanna be a party, I'm not dumb anymore. So I think I do try and keep to a consistent rhythm of sleep. Even on show days, that's the hardest thing is to go to sleep really late. But when it's not a show day, I really try to stay with some kind of schedule. It's like a baby, you're right. It's like sleep training a child.

[00:48:01:19 - 00:49:01:23]
 We're literally like reverting back. We're sleep training ourselves again. I've actually, like in the morning when I meditate, I think of my little girl next to me. And I'm like, I talk to her a lot and I'm like, cause I've been doing a lot of therapy too and healing her wounds. And I find the deeper I go into the healing, the better my menopausal experience got. And so I almost, I saw somewhere like be the woman who your little girl needed to protect her. You get to be that woman now. And when I thought about myself from that lens and how I didn't feel hurt as a child and how I felt helpless and trying to please all the adults around me, it was really powerful to think about like holding her and like loving her and just sitting with her. And I hear you now, you can express what you need to express. I have spent so much time with, and the little girl I visualize is about a six year old.

[00:49:03:00 - 00:52:00:20]
 That's usually where mine is too, around that age. You understand that there are ways that you are being that is not acceptable to the people around you. And they're expressing that too. And when it's the people who love you, you start to realize, oh my God, I better change myself so I get love. And like one thing that I'm dealing with right now is that I have a lot of emotions and that was not really welcomed in my family. And everybody was always like, ah, Mindy's so emotional. And so I learned to go into my room and just be by myself. So at 56 years old, like I'm learning how to be emotional in an appropriate way. When I first met you, you're like, I don't really cry. I don't really cry, I'm really emotional. I'm like, what do you mean you don't cry? I cry all the time. So we were just like, these two opposite ends of the spectrum when it came to like showing emotion, which is so funny. But it's when I just circle back around to resentment and anger, what you just said about, I get to take care of my child, I am so exhausted that I, I think there's a piece of me that just wants someone to take care of me. Because I am so tired because I have taken care of myself for so long. Since you were 12 years old. Yeah, so long that I'm like, can someone please take care of me? I don't even have the energy to take care of my own child. It's, you know, when I was on the Marie Shriver thing, we were talking about choosing to have kids or not have kids. And I love, I've loved having my steps since my life. It's been so rewarding. But so many people are like, why didn't you have your own kids? Because I'm fucking tired. I can't take care of it. I can't birth something and take, you know what I mean? Like I was too busy taking care of myself. And then I had these beautiful step kids in my life that I got to help take care of. But it was literally because I'm exhausted. And so I, and that's also kind of sad for me because I know I would have probably had kids of my own if I wasn't tired. Yeah, I remember going through that thought process with you, yeah. And that's also something in "Peri Minnipos" they don't talk to you about. They don't talk to you about the grief around that. Oh, talk about that. Because a lot, yeah, because you can't, now you can't have kids. And there's a lot of women who haven't had kids. Yeah. I never thought about that. What does that feel like? Oh my God, I have moments where I just start bawling. And I'm like, I'm so sad that I want you to see a kid that looks like me. You know, and then like literally five minutes later, I'm like, I'm good.

[00:52:02:01 - 00:52:21:21]
 I'm good. I remember why I didn't birth a child. Yeah, and something triggers me. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's why. But I think that there is so much grief around all the pieces of us, not only that, but all the pieces of us we didn't get to be or to experience or to live out, to express

[00:52:23:19 - 00:53:33:08]
 when we could have been experiencing those things, whether it be because of trauma or because we were told that it wasn't acceptable or whatever it is. I think there's so much grief around that. And also really that's, if you really think about it, that's what's underlying all of the rage. I mean, there's just a ton of grief. Yeah, I think that's, I really do think that's why this is becoming the number one symptom for women is because we're grieving old identities. We feel like we were never given a choice in who we wanted to be. This was the whole premise of Age Like A Girl. It's like, you get to be who you want to be now. And for you specifically, it was chosen for you and that gorgeous voice of yours. And thank God you went on the trajectory you did. So many of us have benefited from it, but you didn't get to choose. And now you do get to choose. And I'm curious if you go, as you go deeper into perimenopause, how you choose differently. Like I know you're acting now,

[00:53:34:08 - 00:53:45:13]
 and if you could give a crystal ball of what you might do in the next decade, how do you think you'll choose differently? That's been really coming up for me, and I don't know.

[00:53:46:17 - 00:54:03:22]
 I actually have, I haven't actually said this out loud, but sometimes it's something I'm really understanding that sometimes the resentment toward my career, my voice is because I feel like I'm in this relationship that I know is not healthy for me, but I can't get out of it.

[00:54:05:15 - 00:54:40:09]
 And so what that looks like to choose differently, because I love what I do. Like I love to connect with people more than anything, and it's always been through this thing that's right here. That is how I've been able to connect. And I know there are many other ways. Like I've spent the last decade really kind of like diversifying my voice of how do I, coming on here talking to you or going to and speaking somewhere. I had a podcast for a while. I mean, there's so many things that I can do

[00:54:41:09 - 00:54:43:13]
 that it will be interesting to see what I do.

[00:54:45:10 - 00:55:12:06]
 Can't wait. No, yeah. But it all has to be authentic for me. Like it can't just be about a business decision of like, oh, I now wanna, let me go do these really strategic things because I wanna get off the road or it has to come from a place of honesty. And so it's, I don't know what that looks like yet, but it is something that is percolating.

[00:55:13:21 - 00:55:34:05]
 And I have started to, it's been so nice to be, to go and do something new with acting and not have to tour all the time. And then when I go to where I'm actually enjoying those shows more, cause I'm not doing 5 million of them. So, and I'm getting to stretch myself and learn new things at this age, which is rare

[00:55:35:11 - 00:56:05:07]
 for someone who's been doing it as long as I have. So I think, I think for me, it's all about when it comes creatively, it's just, I have started, and this has been the last couple, maybe two or three years of my life, I've started to really go toward like, where am I scared and what stretches me because I'm too, I'm too, like, I know, I know I can now deal, like there's, there's not a piece of me that's afraid to be seen in failure or afraid to be seen learning.

[00:56:07:02 - 00:56:12:10]
 I think there, there used to be a huge piece. It's like, I don't want anybody to see my,

[00:56:13:20 - 00:56:34:10]
 to see my process. I want you to see the finished product, right? And I think that's the thing about Perry Metapolos too, is like, you're going to see my process. You're going to see the whole thing. And I think that that's to, it's uncomfortable to be witnessed in all these places where we have not allowed ourselves to be witnessed before.

[00:56:35:23 - 00:56:51:17]
 Things are so well said. It is, I mean, and I'm learning it, I'm doing it when I act, I'm doing it when I perform on stage and like really let people see all that's going on inside of me instead of just like walking on stage and being like, look, I feel great today.

[00:56:53:11 - 00:57:00:21]
 So I think it's, yeah, I just, I don't have time, I don't have time to limit myself in that way anymore. Yeah.

[00:57:02:06 - 00:58:46:12]
 I think a lot of women would resonate with this because we get so much as women, we get so much self-worth from being a mother or from being the helper of the family or having a career. And we don't even realize that that became an identity and a badge of honor. And what's the most humbling part that I think about Perry Menopause is that some of us will look at that and say, hmm, I don't want to be that person anymore. And that's really hard. There is grieving that is actually required in that process. And I think it's appropriate. I think there's rage and there's grief. And then there's a rediscovery. So, and then you get to know yourself a new, there's sort of a blank space. This is what I will tell you because I've been in this process. You go, I don't want to be this anymore. And you put that down and then there's emptiness. And that is scary. And all of a sudden the things you start saying to yourself of like, do I matter? And how do I contribute to this world? And what makes me happy? All of that shows up, but then it's a liminal space because then you start to make new parts of you and they fit better. So what I'm really curious that will happen with you is you have so much identity in that beautiful voice of yours. And what if, and I don't want to upset your fans, but what if at some day you decide you don't want to keep up with that anymore? And you put that down, who's Leanne Rimes then?

[00:58:48:07 - 00:58:50:09]
 Yeah. I mean, I,

[00:58:53:02 - 00:59:13:05]
 if you would have asked me that five years ago, I would, that would have, that would terrify me. But I know I have so much to give past that. Like that, yeah, there's way too much in this human that it can be expressed.

[00:59:14:06 - 00:59:40:14]
 That's just one way that I do it really, really well. Yeah. But, and yeah, and there might be moments that I do put it down more than others, but I really, I don't see myself not communicating through it in some way. It just might not look the way people expect it to sometimes. I mean, I go into a chant record and go sing with a bunch of candles in a church and people are like, I didn't expect that. Right.

[00:59:42:03 - 00:59:47:12]
 That's the fun part for me is like, I love to do things that are unexpected.

[00:59:49:05 - 01:00:25:13]
 And surprise people. And surprise myself too. And see what you're capable of. I've watched that in you. You like to challenge yourself, see what you're capable of. I mean, this 911 Nashville was a good example of that. And talk a little bit about that because a lot of women are reinventing themselves. And I think it's easy to go, well, Leanne Rimes decided that she would go deeper into acting now, but I saw parts of you that you were fearful. Oh, terrified. Can you talk a little bit about that? Oh, terrified. Still am. We're about to start season two and I'm still terrified.

[01:00:26:17 - 01:00:37:09]
 But it's a different level this time around. I'm like, I'm a little bit more comfortable. And again, I go back to, I was so afraid of people seeing me quote unquote fail.

[01:00:38:09 - 01:06:54:21]
 And there's nobody who judges themselves when it comes to their art and craft more than there would be me. So I was actually avoiding myself to be honest. And I think maybe if people take a long hard look at why they don't do things, it's probably the same reason. It's not really that they're afraid of what other people will say, it's they're inner critic. And we're trying to silence that demon inside. Yep. That's what it feels like. And so I've had to just, I went in with the just idea that I was gonna learn something new every time I did it. And I did, I did. There were moments where I felt totally out of place and that I was terrified. And there was one time I was supposed to start, I started this scene crying and I could not get there. And I literally had a fucking breakdown. I walked out and I was like, I was like grabbed the direction. I'm like, I don't know what to do. I can't get there. I've never been able to not cry in my life. I don't understand. And finally, I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go in there and I'm gonna not cry. And I'm going to do it. And we're gonna continue to do it until I get there. And so, and we did. I just finally was like, I'm just gonna go, I've got to go start somewhere. Yeah. So I like that. I like that. That's key to start somewhere. And so I'm like, okay, I'm gonna just start wherever I am right now. We'll just keep working there till I get there. And then once, that was like the second episode that I went through this. And once I got that out of my system, then everything was fine. It was just like I needed, I actually had to work through some of these things that I've never had to work through before. And I'm sure I did when I was 14, 13, 14, but I don't remember that. I don't remember working through it as a kid. Oh yeah, good point. But as an adult, there's so much more stress and demand and judgment and everything that you're, to me, I had to take these new moments and really work through them with myself. And also ask for help and tell people, hey, I'm new at this. Can you help me? Like, and so I think it's, yeah, it was a terrifying experience at the beginning. And now I feel like I've made so many great friends and I have collaborators and I can lean on people and we, for me, I've been an only child in a world where making an album, yes, it's a collaboration, but it's mine. It's not, and now I'm here, I'm walking into a show where I'm like a sibling. I have siblings and we're gonna collaborate as a family. I'm like, wait, what's this? And so even just that aspect terrified me. I was like, I have to get along with people. We have to work together. I have to work together. The relationship piece actually scared me too. So, yeah, so I get it. I get where women would just be terrified and let that fear stop them from doing something that they really desire to do. But I think if we move with it, allow the fear to be there and be with us. Do it anyway and fear come along with me. And then I've learned if I can just verbalize, this is what I'm feeling. This is what I need help with. How can you help me? I think it becomes just a much easier way to navigate something new. And then we come out on the other side, like a whole new person, because we just learned this new skill. Yes, well, that's what I was thinking. I did a ton of research on adversity for age like a girl. And there's actually, when you come up against something that you're scared of, or you come up against something that's difficult, if you stick with it and you overcome it, it actually grows part of your prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that houses actually resilience, part of the brain that gives you creativity and helps you achieve more goals. It's like the crowning jewel of the human brain is your prefrontal cortex. It's also ironically, the part of the brain that starts to decay and go away when we go into menopause, because it's bathed with all these estrogen receptors. So I actually have come along this idea that I think it's really important for us to try on new identities, to butt up against fear and overcome it when we're in our menopausal years, because you're growing yourself a healthier, happier, wiser brain. So I think it's really beautiful what you did. And I'm curious if you could even put feeling to it, for people who are like, I'm gonna go back in the workforce, and I don't know, I'm scared. Talk about the woman that actually got on to 911, faced her fears and is now having a different relationship compared to the woman who was just gonna try to get on that show. Is there pride? Is there, what is the feeling? I'm just so, yeah, I'm really proud of myself. And I get excited, I love learning new things. I mean, you know this about me. If I wanna learn something and study something and something interests me, I'll go down a rabbit hole. And I really am so proud of myself. And now I'm on this second season. I'm now taking, when I look at a scene, now I'm looking at it in a little bit of a deeper level. Cause I've got this, I've got this surface level skill pretty good. I've got it down. So now I'm being able to go into it on a deeper level. And when I think about it, when I look at my trajectory as a kid in music, like that's, I'm just starting this trajectory and acting like way later, but it's very similar. I just didn't realize it was happening as a child. And so now, as an adult, I'm truly getting to experience a witness, like all the different shifts and changes. And I'm aware that they're happening, that have an awareness around it. And it's actually really cool to watch an adult learn. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you can.

[01:06:56:01 - 01:06:59:13]
 And if you're willing to just be a little uncomfortable.

[01:07:00:19 - 01:07:06:05]
 But it's so rewarding and it's so fulfilling.

[01:07:07:12 - 01:09:32:01]
 Even if nobody watched it, I would just be so happy that I did that for me. And cause I've spent years and years and years holding myself back from doing so many things out of fear. And so that is one beautiful thing I think about, period of pause is that we might have, we might have all these uncomfortable feelings, but at least like some of the give a shit meter like goes away. Yeah. It does. Yeah. You just want, I think I really, I love feeling proud of myself. I love, I love, you know what I mean? Like I just. Self pride's the best. Yeah, it is. Cause I feel like I only feel that now when I'm challenging myself or learning something new. Because I've been doing what I've been doing for so long that everything, nothing's really exciting. It's like, oh, this is cool. Like I love what I do, this is all cool. But like what excites me is when I know I've just challenged my own, you know, boundary. And I've maybe like expanded my world a little more. Yeah. And I think again, this is why I look at that perimenopausal years as a transition. Because if going back to where we started, which is the rage and the unpredictable moods, if you can look at it like it's a coat you're taking off and you're like, I'm going to put this down so I can make room for new activities and new versions of me. And if I'm willing to go through that process and then step over into fear and uncertainty and keep moving forward, the self pride, the confidence, the clarity, that is key. That is where you start to live the happiest life ever in the back half. This is why you see Jane Fonda, who's just at 80 is so exuberant. Because she, you know, she's not, love listening to her talk, she's not like the activist she was. She has a different form of activism now. And I think what happens to us in our younger years is we cling to those identities for love. But then when we go through perimenopause, we're offered an opportunity to let them go and do the things that make us love ourselves. Interesting, I was gonna, as I'm listening to you talk, the thing that comes up for me that I'm sure a lot of women will relate to is, but will those, these new pieces that I try on,

[01:09:34:00 - 01:09:35:09]
 be loved, be loved?

[01:09:36:18 - 01:10:02:17]
 I think that's the scariest thing. And I look at it in my, I look at it in my career. It's like I try on something new and people, sometimes it's not as commercially successful as something else. But I'm like, but when I equate it to that, I'm like, but I really love me and I really enjoyed doing that. So I think if, I think it's so much harder for me though, sometimes to take that over into like my personal life,

[01:10:03:18 - 01:10:05:03]
 because it is for most people.

[01:10:06:05 - 01:10:16:03]
 But it is a process and I do think, I think that's where that self-love piece comes in of like, but I have to love, I have to love those versions.

[01:10:17:08 - 01:11:19:02]
 You know, first. First, yeah. And I honestly think there's nothing more lovable than a person who's congruent with themselves. Oh, for sure. For sure. It's when you're authentically joyful, you're authentically showing up the way you wanna show up, not because other people, that is the most attractive human on the planet. And I really, to answer your question, you will be loved. In fact, you'll be even more loved, I'm sure, because the new version of you will be, people will see the old version there. It's not like you're letting go of that version, but they will see this evolution of the Leanne Rimes that they've loved. And it'll inspire others to do the same. I really do think so. I'm gonna answer that question for you. You will be loved. Okay, I'm on the path, I'm there. I'm working on it. But when you're in the throes of it, I mean, those are the questions that come up. And thank God, Mindy,

[01:11:20:04 - 01:12:30:11]
 thank God you're a few years ahead of me, so that I have a wise woman to guide me, because I am in need. I think we all are, so I'm so grateful for you. Yeah, I'm so grateful for you. You're the one, I have to let everybody know, you were the one that told me to read "The Crown," I was like, "Are you calling me old? "Why are you telling me to read "The Crown?" And then you said, "No, do you know what "Crown" means?" I was so like, I didn't know how to take it. I'm like, "Oh God, am I there? "Is that what it looks like to you?" No, you're not there. You're not there. I know, I know, but it was funny. When I think of "Crown," I think of a much older, I think of my godmother who just passed away, she was 96. And to me, when I think of "Crown" years, I really think of that really back half our life and that's like, to me, there's, I can't, that will be, I can't wait to that age because I do feel like there's this like, Cool. Like quiet power there, you know? I look forward to it. Yeah, well you taught me that "Crown" means crown. And so then I was like, "Oh, okay, I can put my crown on. "That works for me." For sure.

[01:12:31:21 - 01:13:03:07]
 Yeah, so, yeah. Okay, well I adore you and I just, I love, I really, I just want to honor how transparent you show up. I think that is really hard with somebody in your public spot and it's so attractive and it's what people love about you and you have such a big heart, it's as big as your voice. And so thank you for constantly showing us what it looks like to live a normal life in an abnormal environment.

[01:13:04:09 - 01:13:57:06]
 (Laughing) Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah. I always love coming on and talking to you and I always think before I come on here, because I know, I'm already an open book, but I know when I'm talking to you, it's literally like you will get the deepest, darkest places in me to come out. And so I was thinking, okay, okay, I know I'm gonna go there. So we did, which was fun, I enjoyed it. Yes, awesome, awesome. Okay, well I have to ask you the last question about your podcast name and it's funny that I'm asking you this because you asked me one time, when do I get to be a woman? Why are you always writing these like a girls? So here's what I'm gonna, and I laughed. I was like, it's a whole theme. It's a whole theme. So I'm gonna ask you in light of our conversation today, what does living like a girl mean to you?

[01:13:58:23 - 01:14:00:11]
 Oh, wow.

[01:14:01:14 - 01:14:05:20]
 At this point in my life,

[01:14:06:21 - 01:14:23:05]
 it's allowing all of my pieces to come forward and to live in a way that our society has never allowed for us to be.

[01:14:25:17 - 01:14:36:06]
 Yeah. Yeah, and it's triggering as all get out to me and everyone else. And I think that's the whole point. Yep, yeah.

[01:14:37:10 - 01:15:39:10]
 Yeah, I'm gonna send you a commercial. I forgot to send this to you. That was a Super Bowl commercial about 10 years ago. And it was for a Tampax, like a feminine care company. And they did a whole thing on living like a girl and how like a girl became a derogatory statement. And so a huge part of what I wanna do with this podcast is make it normal because we are living differently. It's so funny, I'm actually about my, I just read the first script of the new season of "Diamondwood Nashville" and one of the lines that I say and it says, "You something like a girl." And I laughed because I think of you every time I say that and how we use it in this as a derogatory statement when it's not at all. Maybe you need to get the right, you've done some amazing things over there. Maybe you need to go get the right-- No, my character, trust me, my character, my character would not be kind. Yeah.

[01:15:40:22 - 01:17:01:03]
 My character's not kind, therefore, therefore I have to roll with it on that one. That's amazing, that's amazing. Where can people find you? Because this will come out in a couple of weeks and you're doing something special with your tour right now. Yes, well, yeah, I just celebrated actually a few days ago, the 30th anniversary of the actual release of the Blue Record and so we are out right now with the 30th anniversary of Blue Tour and yeah, you can find me at leanderimes.com or I'm on Substack, which we've been having so much fun with. You and I both have been on our Substack and then of course all over socials, but yeah, leanderimes.com is my website. Amazing, and if you guys haven't heard her in person, go. It's quite an experience. Thank you. It's not that I'm biased or anything, I literally, I love it so much. You are one of my favorite musical artists to listen to live. Your voice is just piercing. And I remember the first time I heard you live, I was like, what was that? What came out of your mouth? That was just crazy. So everybody should go hear you. Thank you. So yeah, I love you my friend and thank you for all of this. Yeah, this was so fun as always. Awesome, awesome. I'll see you later. Bye. Bye.

[01:17:02:11 - 01:17:19:10]
 Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.