1 00:00:00,032 --> 00:00:04,052 Unknown: It wasn't one of these, you know, bitch fest genuinely 2 00:00:05,372 --> 00:00:08,912 discussed the future. And I had a couple of different, different 3 00:00:08,972 --> 00:00:15,392 things. One of them was, in order to be successful with 4 00:00:15,392 --> 00:00:19,172 radio, you have to, you have to give your employees, you have to 5 00:00:19,172 --> 00:00:23,240 give your on air team, especially four things. Have to 6 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:28,880 give them money, opportunity training and respect. 7 00:00:29,180 --> 00:00:31,040 Wow, if you, if 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,640 you don't have money, you have to operate, you have to you have 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,240 to give them, you have to provide opportunity training and 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,580 respect. If you don't have money or opportunity, then you have to 11 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:46,060 provide training or respect. These are all successful 12 00:00:46,060 --> 00:00:50,260 scenarios, and sometimes, if you don't have money, opportunity 13 00:00:50,260 --> 00:00:55,540 training, respect will carry the day. But if you don't have 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,720 money, opportunity, training or respect, it's because you're 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:12,960 working for Clear Channel or cumulus. I love it. Welcome to a 16 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:18,180 podcast about music and entertainment before it all goes 17 00:01:18,180 --> 00:01:22,820 down the disposal This is circling the drain. 18 00:01:25,940 --> 00:01:29,060 Hey, welcome back to circling the drain. If I can talk, it's 19 00:01:29,060 --> 00:01:32,600 Johnny Bozeman right here. Johnny B we are missing one 20 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,240 fellow. We Harper and we missing, but 21 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,440 he will be back. He is actually, I believe he's doing baseball 22 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,040 game announcing, announce me, announcing, 23 00:01:42,340 --> 00:01:44,920 both of us. It's been a long day tonight. Yes, it 24 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,460 is, but we miss him, but he will be back. For those that may be 25 00:01:48,460 --> 00:01:51,580 thinking, What did Jay leave? Y'all, no, he has not. He's 26 00:01:51,580 --> 00:01:55,720 still with us, but we do have brother, Jim McCarthy, Jim, how 27 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:56,320 are you doing? 28 00:01:56,620 --> 00:01:59,200 I'm able to test it up and take nourishment. 29 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,620 That's a good thing. That's right, I'm above ground, which 30 00:02:01,620 --> 00:02:04,740 is always a good thing. Oh yeah. In fact, I start every day with 31 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:07,200 a thank you. You really have to Yeah. 32 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,900 You do Yeah, especially with the, you know, the last two 33 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:12,420 years of your life and all the things. 34 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:16,860 Well, I mean, the last four years really, I mean, yeah, 35 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,880 yeah, it's been that's been the really, that's been the really 36 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,620 weird thing is that I've lost a lot of people, you know, like 37 00:02:27,620 --> 00:02:32,600 Phil fact, Phil Valentine and nothing against my other friends 38 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,200 but Phil Valentine and a guy named Dave White, who I've 39 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,780 talked about on the show. I lost both of them, and they were 40 00:02:40,780 --> 00:02:45,520 probably the the two guys that I would count as really great 41 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,440 friends, the kind of guys that you talked to a lot, and that 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,800 were very pivotal in my life, that that really changed my 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,360 life. Yeah, losing those two guys, in fact, losing Dave was a 44 00:02:59,380 --> 00:03:05,460 was a big shot to the gut as much as losing Phil So, yeah, 45 00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:09,540 it's been kind of a and then losing radio, yeah, you know, 46 00:03:09,540 --> 00:03:13,800 getting let go from radio after almost 50 years. 47 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,880 Oh, radio is kind of like an ex wife. I guess I would, I would 48 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,040 have to imagine what an ex wife would be, yeah. Well, an abusive 49 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:22,700 ex wife, yeah, 50 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,460 ex wife that you're happy to get away from. But no, I mean, I 51 00:03:28,460 --> 00:03:33,320 enjoyed radio. I enjoyed working in it. I don't my big problem 52 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,380 with radio was always with management. I never got along 53 00:03:36,380 --> 00:03:40,480 with management. It's not that I it's not that I argued with them 54 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,080 or tried to make their life miserable. It's more like I 55 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,460 don't. I just don't think they really understood my role or 56 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,820 what I was bringing to the table for them. Yeah, that's what I 57 00:03:51,820 --> 00:03:54,700 gathered from it, is that they didn't, and I didn't get the 58 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:56,980 impression that they really listened to what 59 00:03:56,979 --> 00:04:00,039 we were doing. And to be honest with you, I've kind of it's an 60 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:02,279 unfair thing for me to say that it's like an ex wife who's 61 00:04:02,279 --> 00:04:07,259 abusive. It was very good to me. Yeah, it enabled us to, you 62 00:04:07,259 --> 00:04:12,299 know, relatively have a single income type of situation with 63 00:04:12,299 --> 00:04:15,419 Courtney staying at home, and so, I mean, I'm grateful for 64 00:04:15,419 --> 00:04:19,439 that. The last company I worked for was fantastic. I was, I just 65 00:04:19,439 --> 00:04:23,839 got it out of my system, yeah, when I was ready to leave, it's 66 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,739 not fun when you're not ready to leave, and they make it happen 67 00:04:27,739 --> 00:04:29,659 for you, yeah? 68 00:04:29,660 --> 00:04:33,980 So Well, that was what's rough about the last one, was that I 69 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:37,700 was really starting to enjoy, you know, working with the 70 00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:42,700 people I was working with, with Dan Mantis and Joan Jones, and 71 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:47,200 we had Joan had just come on, and we were starting to get a 72 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,220 real good, I hate the word synergy, but that's all. I think 73 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:55,660 camaraderie, yeah, just, we just really gelled together, and I 74 00:04:55,660 --> 00:04:58,600 really didn't know if it was going to be that way, because we 75 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:03,420 had lost Ken Weaver and I had. A real good Ken. Dan and I were 76 00:05:03,420 --> 00:05:08,100 real tight, and we had a good rapport, and I think it showed, 77 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:11,340 because the ratings were really good and we never got the pat on 78 00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:14,940 the back. You know, that's the way to go, guys, yeah, yeah. 79 00:05:14,940 --> 00:05:18,360 I mean, it's really a shame when you you pour your heart and soul 80 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,080 into something, and there's no attaboys, yeah. 81 00:05:21,140 --> 00:05:24,980 You know, that's one thing you know, that I always tried to do 82 00:05:25,820 --> 00:05:32,540 in the studio was keep everybody up, yeah, you know, like Dan, 83 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,740 sometimes Dan's very rough on himself, like he'd get done with 84 00:05:36,740 --> 00:05:40,300 a bit, and he'd go, I shake that. And I said, No, Dan, you 85 00:05:40,300 --> 00:05:44,620 didn't. You didn't, you know, don't. Okay, you mixed up one 86 00:05:44,620 --> 00:05:48,580 word, big deal, you know, just go on. It sounded great. You 87 00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:54,460 know, that's one thing I did was try to keep everybody up. Plus, 88 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,420 because of management, not really patting our backs, I 89 00:05:58,420 --> 00:06:01,320 would try to pat the backs of people I worked with, like, tell 90 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,340 them something I heard that was really good. In fact, I remember 91 00:06:05,340 --> 00:06:09,900 telling Pamela Furr one time, and she was guest hosting, she 92 00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:14,580 made a really great point one time on the air, and I was 93 00:06:14,580 --> 00:06:18,000 coming home listening to her, and she was making this great 94 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,100 point. And it had me in the car after I turned, you know, after 95 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:26,300 I gotten into the driveway, and I was sitting in the car, and 96 00:06:26,300 --> 00:06:31,520 she was making this great point, and I even told her, I said, you 97 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,220 know, that's, that's the sign of a good talk show host that can 98 00:06:34,220 --> 00:06:38,120 keep you in the car, that, you know, that I didn't just get out 99 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:43,060 right away. And if you can keep me their power to you, that's 100 00:06:43,059 --> 00:06:47,019 so true. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing is that, you know, and 101 00:06:47,019 --> 00:06:51,939 again, the people who are, they're sowing what they're 102 00:06:51,939 --> 00:06:54,519 they're going to reap what they sow. Right, right? You know, at 103 00:06:54,519 --> 00:06:58,899 that, at that point in that management scenario that you 104 00:06:58,899 --> 00:07:04,859 were in, they were sowing seeds of just unhealthy culture. Yeah, 105 00:07:04,919 --> 00:07:08,219 you know, Discord, if you will. And I think eventually it's 106 00:07:08,219 --> 00:07:10,859 going to come those things kind of you get to reap it. And, 107 00:07:10,919 --> 00:07:15,479 yeah, you are a friend of mine, John David Wells, who I got to 108 00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:21,019 know in Vegas. Great guy. Sounds like Mike Rowe. You always had a 109 00:07:21,019 --> 00:07:24,439 great voice, and I said to he said something to me, and I'm 110 00:07:24,439 --> 00:07:28,639 trying to remember it, if you're not going to, you know, if 111 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:31,699 you're not going to pay us, then, like, you know, at least 112 00:07:31,699 --> 00:07:34,759 respect us. If you're not going to respect us, then at least. 113 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:37,399 And there's a third part of it, I should probably qualify, but 114 00:07:37,399 --> 00:07:40,239 it was a whole train of thought. I should probably text him right 115 00:07:40,239 --> 00:07:42,939 now and see if it will get back to me. But it was really good, 116 00:07:42,939 --> 00:07:45,699 because it really summed up radio, you know, if you're not 117 00:07:45,699 --> 00:07:48,579 going to, you know, at least respect what we're going to do, 118 00:07:48,759 --> 00:07:52,299 then pay us, or, you know, do something else that followed 119 00:07:52,299 --> 00:07:55,899 that kind of thing. So acknowledge it, or give us some 120 00:07:55,899 --> 00:07:58,839 sort of appreciation well. 121 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,960 And the thing is, if you are the leader, you should, you should 122 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,340 really give a damn, because if you don't, it's going to filter 123 00:08:08,340 --> 00:08:11,520 down to everyone, yeah, and you're and you're going to have 124 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:16,500 subpar product. Now luckily, you know, with the radio station, 125 00:08:16,500 --> 00:08:19,920 even though we weren't getting atta boys, we kept each other 126 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,320 pumped up, and I think still put out good product. And in fact, 127 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,520 with Phil Valentine, that's what we did a lot of times, is when 128 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,780 things would be really negative around us. Phil always said, you 129 00:08:32,780 --> 00:08:36,800 know, let's put the horse blinders on, yeah, and control 130 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,800 what you can control, yeah. And it was great that that was a 131 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:44,380 great, great lesson. And I think that's why I missed the man so 132 00:08:44,380 --> 00:08:48,040 much, was that he was always good at you know, if it was a 133 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,000 crappy day, Phil could make that day into the greatest just 134 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:57,760 because he was always up, always always rocking, always put me in 135 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,080 a good mood. Well, how have 136 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,540 you been since all that went down, you know, you come in and 137 00:09:03,540 --> 00:09:08,100 all they unceremoniously, you know, over a zoom call. It's 138 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,320 like pouring salt in the wound of, you know, just, oh, I didn't 139 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,740 know that you were so popular, yeah, did a Google search and 140 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:19,020 you were, well, I didn't realize that you're actually 141 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:22,880 here. Why Why would you come on? 142 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,760 I've had some really weird things said to me by management, 143 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,680 not just at the last place, but even even at the place prior 144 00:09:30,860 --> 00:09:35,420 when they were getting rid of me, at W, L, A, C, the general 145 00:09:35,420 --> 00:09:39,140 manager called me in and said, Man, I was listening to you this 146 00:09:39,140 --> 00:09:41,800 morning. Man, you are funny. You had me laughing. And I said, 147 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,640 Well, gee thanks. And he said, I hate we're getting rid of you. 148 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,560 And I said, Well, then don't so I guess you weren't paying it. 149 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,320 And Phil ran into that a lot with when we were working 150 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,640 together, they would always it had nothing to do with my 151 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,160 talent. It had more to do with. A number crunching, of course, 152 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,860 and they were always wanting to get rid of me. And he said, if 153 00:10:04,860 --> 00:10:09,360 you get rid of him, I'm walking. He said, you're taking the guts 154 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:14,040 out of the show. Yeah, and, and I appreciate him doing that, but 155 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,440 he shouldn't have had to do that. All you had to do is, you 156 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,680 know, listen, listen to it. But that was the whole problem. They 157 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,620 don't, they don't listen to their 158 00:10:21,620 --> 00:10:24,620 own product. Oh, there's an element of hubris that goes on 159 00:10:24,620 --> 00:10:28,280 in any situation. You know, sure, management, I mean, good 160 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,160 managers will shield you from the stuff that they're getting 161 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,460 faced with, right? You know, I talked about this gentleman 162 00:10:34,460 --> 00:10:38,780 before, and another episode, Steve brink, you know, he would, 163 00:10:39,140 --> 00:10:42,400 he would his job. He always said is, I am the umbrella to keep 164 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,640 you from the crap that is rolling down the hill. Yeah, 165 00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:48,760 and, you know, you just, you guys just need to know that I'm 166 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,460 proud of you. You're doing your job. I'll let you know if you're 167 00:10:51,460 --> 00:10:54,940 not. And you don't need to hear or see or anything. You don't 168 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:58,120 need to know what's affecting me, right? Those are that's on 169 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,960 my shoulders. And he was a great culture creator in 170 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,480 that sense, you know, well, there's a there have been a lot 171 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,400 of people I've worked with like that. Leslie Pardue was great at 172 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:15,060 that. He, you know, he shielded us from a lot of BS, and even, 173 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,000 you know, people talk about the Dickey brothers. But Michael 174 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Dickey, you've had a good experience. I did have a good 175 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,160 experience with Michael dickey. He was, he was like that, and 176 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,780 he, he brought us up a lot of times, yeah, and yeah, I enjoyed 177 00:11:29,780 --> 00:11:32,960 working, working for him. Yeah, they didn't get a 178 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,700 good, like, like, a stellar reputation. I don't know if it 179 00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:41,260 was from the trades or just, you know, the scuttlebutt going 180 00:11:41,260 --> 00:11:45,160 around town, or what people their interactions, but, you 181 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,740 know, there was three brothers or two. 182 00:11:49,299 --> 00:11:51,039 I think there was three. So, I mean, 183 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,560 maybe some of them not Michael. 184 00:11:53,620 --> 00:12:00,420 Yeah, Michael was, I was real sad because Michael, they took 185 00:12:00,420 --> 00:12:06,720 Michael out of there and had him do a magazine in Atlanta. And to 186 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,440 be quite honest, I really didn't care for any of the general 187 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,800 managers. What was really weird was the general manager that 188 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,900 fired me, the one that said she Googled me. I really didn't like 189 00:12:18,900 --> 00:12:22,280 her. I mean, I thought she did some good things with the 190 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:27,560 station. Always talked her up. And I don't know, I don't think 191 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,180 she felt the same about me. 192 00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:32,060 Well, that's the thing is, like, you know, are you saying these 193 00:12:32,060 --> 00:12:35,480 things to cajole me? And you know, we're kind of developing a 194 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,360 little bit of a hey, I'll Josh you. You Josh kind of 195 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,280 camaraderie thing. But there's an element of like, well, I get 196 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,120 that, but we need to know each other a little bit first, and 197 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,560 you've never really made the effort, so understand what 198 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,760 you're saying is coming off as kind of insulting. Yes, we don't 199 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,860 know each other in that you don't know me well enough to be 200 00:12:56,860 --> 00:12:59,320 talking to me like this, yeah, and I've actually said that to 201 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,360 people before, yeah, where they think that, you know, I'm like, 202 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,300 Okay, are you being serious? Because I don't serious? Because 203 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:06,300 I don't know you, right? You know what I mean, right? I 204 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:09,840 guess, with age and way I kind of handle things now, I always 205 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,580 tell my wife, who is working for Publix now, yeah, and she's 206 00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:17,160 loving it there, and she's having a good time. I'm like, 207 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,480 you know, I always find it interesting if how I would be 208 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:24,680 having to work for somebody else again. How I'd conduct myself? 209 00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:30,080 Yeah, I would be strategically more opinionated, you know, but 210 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,440 not, you know, not opinionated, just for the sake of being 211 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,960 opinionated, right? Just to, you know, argue or 212 00:13:36,020 --> 00:13:38,900 not, yeah, just, you know, if someone hits you with a sideways 213 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:40,600 comment like that, I would say, Look, 214 00:13:42,159 --> 00:13:44,859 why, you know, why are we doing this? Yeah, 215 00:13:44,919 --> 00:13:47,139 why are we doing this? I've done that in the, I mean, the car 216 00:13:47,139 --> 00:13:49,899 business taught me that was, was standing, not standing up, but 217 00:13:49,899 --> 00:13:52,899 at least establishing the boundaries and standing up for 218 00:13:52,899 --> 00:13:57,459 yourself when managers would try and posture to you, right? And 219 00:13:57,459 --> 00:14:00,099 it was an unreasonable posture, like I don't I'm not deserving 220 00:14:00,099 --> 00:14:02,699 of this right now, right? And I'm gonna, I'm gonna say 221 00:14:02,699 --> 00:14:04,979 something, and because I'm saying something, I'm signaling 222 00:14:04,979 --> 00:14:07,679 to you that it's not okay to do this to me. And if you continue 223 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,059 to treat me like this, we're gonna have 224 00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:13,500 problems well. And one thing I was looking at, and my wife 225 00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:17,520 really helped me look at this way. But you know, both shows I 226 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,820 worked on were great in the ratings. Yeah, so I'm producing 227 00:14:22,820 --> 00:14:25,040 for you. What's the problem? 228 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,000 Yeah, the KPIs you're wanting me to be in charge of are are 229 00:14:29,060 --> 00:14:31,940 definitely performing. It's not my problem. If you can't 230 00:14:31,940 --> 00:14:32,840 translate that into 231 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,500 revenue, right? I'm entertaining people. And, you know, yeah, 232 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:41,440 because I wasn't aware that the audience really dug me that much 233 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,460 until I met my wife, because she was shocked when she met me, 234 00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:48,940 because I was thinking about leaving Phil's show, and she 235 00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:51,400 said, No, you shouldn't, because you guys have a great 236 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,660 relationship. He loves you. You love him, and the audience loves 237 00:14:55,660 --> 00:14:59,260 you both. I said, Well, I think they love him, but I said, you 238 00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:03,060 know it's not. Going anywhere for me. And that's when she took 239 00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:08,100 me down to shelville, to a grocery store down there. And I 240 00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:12,120 didn't understand why we were going there, but she was just 241 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,360 aware that that's where our audience was, the big core of 242 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,780 the audience. And she was right. And that's when I learned, oh, 243 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:24,680 wow, they do like us, yeah. But what? It wasn't an ego thing. It 244 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,360 was more of a self affirming Oh, so what I'm doing is working, 245 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,920 what I'm, I'm, I'm actually contributing to the show, 246 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,180 according to these people, 247 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,180 was there a Porsche, a part of your life where something like 248 00:15:38,180 --> 00:15:40,460 this would have happened and you would have freaked out more, you 249 00:15:40,460 --> 00:15:41,000 would have been 250 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,820 a little more panicky. Oh, as far as 251 00:15:42,820 --> 00:15:46,900 what, there's like, a life shift like that, you know? I mean, at 252 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:48,760 our age, having it happen, 253 00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:50,980 it's as far as getting let 254 00:15:51,039 --> 00:15:54,519 go and, you know, but that's to be expected in radio, yeah, it 255 00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:54,759 is. 256 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,480 But this time was different. I because in the past, when it's 257 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:04,380 happened, I've bounced back a lot faster this time. I don't 258 00:16:04,380 --> 00:16:07,680 know what. I don't know if it was because Phil had died and 259 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,480 I'd not really got to grieve properly. I don't know why 260 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:18,120 happened, but for a few months there I was lost. I would just 261 00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:24,500 stay in my music room and just hang out there. And my wife got 262 00:16:24,500 --> 00:16:28,220 very concerned because she she said, you know, it seemed to me, 263 00:16:28,220 --> 00:16:30,440 you were in a real deep depression. I thought, well, it 264 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,260 probably was to some extent. 265 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,200 And I think the thing is, with that you don't really know. No, 266 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,280 you don't, you know. 267 00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:41,980 But I think, I think it was, and I've really not got totally out 268 00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:46,480 of it. I still have some moments of doubt and really don't know 269 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,000 what I'm going to do with my life at this point. That's why 270 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,280 this podcast has been really good for me, because it does 271 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,380 give me purpose. I do enjoy doing it with you guys, and I'm 272 00:16:59,380 --> 00:17:03,060 glad it's happened. I was a little concerned, because we 273 00:17:03,060 --> 00:17:06,120 were trying to do it with Campbell, and it just wouldn't 274 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:09,060 work out. And when it didn't work out with Campbell, I'd 275 00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:13,080 given up on it. I thought, well, yeah, I'll just find something 276 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,160 else to do, and maybe I'll just go to go to work in the private 277 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,040 sector. So just go work at Publix with your wife. Yeah, 278 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,220 work there, but meeting Jay, because Jay was the one that 279 00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:29,360 invited me out to lunch, and it was having lunch with him, and 280 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:32,480 in the middle of it, I was just thinking, This guy's really, 281 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,340 really entertaining, yeah, and he's got some great stories. And 282 00:17:37,340 --> 00:17:40,660 I'm thinking, I think this is my guy right here, and I think it 283 00:17:40,660 --> 00:17:43,780 was him, actually, that asked about the podcast, and I said, 284 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:46,960 Well, interesting. You say that, why don't we get together and do 285 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,500 one? And that's where it all started. And thanks to you too, 286 00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:52,780 getting it into my brain that 287 00:17:53,019 --> 00:17:55,119 it's a lot of fun. It is a lot of fun. 288 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:59,260 It's a lot of work. And it's not like radio, where you're just, 289 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,360 you know, where people can just easily turn it on, and there you 290 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,980 are. And you know, you, you do have competition, but not like 291 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,600 podcasts. Podcasts, there are so many to choose from. I mean, 292 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,260 you're talking millions, yeah, is where the radio station what? 293 00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:20,180 There's a couple of others in town that you, you know, you, 294 00:18:20,180 --> 00:18:20,780 you, 295 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,480 but I mean, all the listenership is getting fractured. 296 00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:28,880 They are so they are well, and people aren't. We talked about 297 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,180 it on here before people, especially with music radio, 298 00:18:32,180 --> 00:18:35,240 they're not listening to music radio like they used to, right? 299 00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,140 It's a lot different. Now. People can program their phones. 300 00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:40,780 Their phone is a radio now, 301 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,680 and we've talked about that on the podcast, yeah, looking back 302 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,620 on the podcast so far, I mean, we're about, we're pushing 30 303 00:18:47,620 --> 00:18:50,860 episodes in. Yeah, we are any highlights that come to mind, 304 00:18:50,860 --> 00:18:52,420 some favorites for you that you enjoy? 305 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:57,340 Oh, there are too many. I love Gary Gentry because I loved him 306 00:18:57,340 --> 00:19:02,160 anyway. He's a great guy. I loved the ones where we talked 307 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:07,320 about artists that didn't make it, that should have also 308 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,340 enjoyed our dad. A lot of people have talked about the dad 309 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:14,820 episode. They like that. Deborah Allen was another one because I 310 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:17,580 loved her, and we got to have her husband on sometime. 311 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:22,280 Raymond, yeah, because he's he's full of great stories. Yeah, 312 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:28,160 there have been a ton of them that I've Wade Hayes, gosh. I 313 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,040 mean, we've had so many great, great guests, 314 00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:33,020 and we've done a lot. Yeah, 315 00:19:33,020 --> 00:19:38,060 we have, we have well and Sandy Gennaro, I loved him, yeah, what 316 00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:42,700 a great guy he is, plus to interview a rocker that you got 317 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:46,180 to see in concert, I was telling my wife that this morning, I'm 318 00:19:46,180 --> 00:19:50,380 pinching myself like a kid because I remember seeing him 319 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,080 and being blown away by his drumming, which 320 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,600 is funny, because you know, of all the different people you've 321 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,740 come across and talked to and interviewed over the years, I 322 00:19:59,740 --> 00:20:04,980 love. Love that aspect of you that you're still in awe of 323 00:20:04,980 --> 00:20:07,860 certain people. You know, that's a good thing to hold on to. I 324 00:20:07,860 --> 00:20:11,400 don't, I'm not sure I really have it anymore, really, because 325 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,680 I've, you know, in radio, you just kind of, you realize these 326 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,020 people just put their pants on one leg. Well, yeah, 327 00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:18,420 I look at them that way. I don't. I don't look at them like 328 00:20:18,420 --> 00:20:22,880 they're like I used to. You know, a lot of a lot of us. And 329 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,420 when we were younger, you know, we were, we were kneeling at 330 00:20:26,420 --> 00:20:29,420 the, you know, the altar of their martial lamp. Yeah, but 331 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:34,400 I'm not that way anymore. I I look at them as people. They're 332 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,180 not perfect. Yeah, that they may be famous, or they may be more 333 00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:44,500 famous, but it doesn't make them greater person than you or me, 334 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:44,920 and 335 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,360 it's funny, because 336 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:51,940 you think about the accessibility that we have now 337 00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:56,140 with social media, Instagram, you can DM your favorite artist 338 00:20:56,140 --> 00:20:59,200 or whoever influenced you, and maybe they'll get back to you. 339 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,420 It's a lot more instantaneous, and it's almost expected now 340 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,300 that if you don't, it's kind of like, well, I'm going to form my 341 00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:08,880 opinion based on the fact that you didn't get back to me on my 342 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,180 DM, whereas where we grew up, we'd have to send an actual 343 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,960 letter or go to where they were in hopes to maybe see them go 344 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,740 from the arena, the venue, into whatever mode of transportation. 345 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,460 If you could even see that happening, right? You know, it's 346 00:21:22,460 --> 00:21:25,580 a lot different. And I think the expectations are different now, 347 00:21:25,940 --> 00:21:30,260 and I think we have a lot more human take on them, especially 348 00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:33,860 now that they're using the same platforms to show what their 349 00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:34,760 life is like. 350 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,100 Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And 351 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:42,640 it's the sheen of the stardom, or them being up on a pillar, if 352 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,140 you will, or pedestal, pedestal, pedestal, pillar. It's not 353 00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:50,020 really there anymore, you know, I'm glad of that, actually, 354 00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:51,040 yeah, me too, 355 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,240 you know, because I think I've seen too many people over the 356 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,900 years. And I'm not, I'm not putting I'm not trying to put 357 00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:06,720 anybody down, but a lot of artists, you know, they're human 358 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,820 beings, and some of them are quite they're not to be looked 359 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:15,660 up to, not saying all of them are that way, but a lot of them 360 00:22:15,660 --> 00:22:17,940 you're putting on a pedestal that shouldn't be there, 361 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:21,800 because, you know, in their private life. They may not be 362 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,240 the in fact, you've always heard the the old saying, you know, 363 00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:29,540 you don't want to meet your heroes, yeah, and there's a lot 364 00:22:29,540 --> 00:22:33,620 of truth to that. They're like even meeting radio people. I've 365 00:22:33,620 --> 00:22:38,420 met a number of radio people that I loved listening to them 366 00:22:38,780 --> 00:22:43,840 when I met them, I'm sorry I did, because they were there was 367 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,200 one talk show host in particular that remember that Phil 368 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,980 Valentine introduced me to that we always do this didn't even, 369 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:54,940 didn't even look up, didn't even look up to what 370 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,760 it was. Was it? Were they a syndicated person? 371 00:22:57,759 --> 00:22:58,779 Syndicated? Yes. 372 00:22:58,779 --> 00:23:03,359 Were they out of New York? You're getting warm. 373 00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:08,700 Maybe hot. Did I maybe have them on my radio station? 374 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:10,980 Yeah, you're a great American. 375 00:23:12,180 --> 00:23:15,000 Oh, really, yeah, it's so funny because, I mean, I know the 376 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,180 person you're talking about, my wife, having such an intuition 377 00:23:18,180 --> 00:23:21,920 about people, yeah, never met him, and always just, you know, 378 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:25,520 she didn't vibe with him when she saw him on, like, really, on 379 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:29,240 TV, and she's like, this is something about him. I go, I 380 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,340 said, I've met him several times. He's saying, it seems 381 00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:32,900 like a cool guy, you know, well, 382 00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:37,880 some Well, I mean, Phil liked him. Yeah, Phil loved him. But I 383 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,320 walked away. I just didn't get a good vibe. And plus, the way he 384 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,580 treated me, I thought, well, you know, he, mean, treated me like 385 00:23:45,580 --> 00:23:47,980 an underling that he didn't need to deal with. 386 00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:51,399 You're one of Phil's support staff kind of, yeah, that's way. 387 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,420 And so I just, I actually liked his partner better, the one that 388 00:23:55,420 --> 00:23:58,180 was which I didn't, I didn't agree with his partner on 389 00:23:58,180 --> 00:24:00,960 politics, but he was a nice guy. I think 390 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,000 anybody listening to this could probably discern, 391 00:24:02,999 --> 00:24:04,619 oh yeah, they know who we're talking about. 392 00:24:04,979 --> 00:24:07,979 I've, actually, I've had interactions with the same guy, 393 00:24:07,979 --> 00:24:12,179 yeah, his counterpart, and he was a huge champion of radio, 394 00:24:12,299 --> 00:24:13,079 huge, well, 395 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,660 he's just seemed like a cool guy. He was a very nice, very 396 00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:19,320 personable, yeah? And I like people like that. There was a DJ 397 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:24,440 in in Nashville that I really liked, and he was on mid days on 398 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:29,660 a country station here, and we were getting ready to move in 399 00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:35,240 the same building. And the production guy was a friend of 400 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,480 mine, and he I was telling, oh man, I dig that cat. And he 401 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,340 goes, I'll come introduce you. And we went in, the dude was 402 00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:45,940 rude as could be. Never said hello to me, never. All he did 403 00:24:45,940 --> 00:24:51,280 was bitch to the production guy about something, but when he 404 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,420 introduced me, he didn't bring even acknowledged, right? And it 405 00:24:55,420 --> 00:25:00,540 just, you know, I quit listening. I thought it. He 406 00:25:00,540 --> 00:25:01,020 killed it 407 00:25:01,019 --> 00:25:04,739 for me. And it's like, the people don't realize when you do 408 00:25:04,739 --> 00:25:09,719 that, you know, I get having a bad day or whatever, sure, like 409 00:25:09,719 --> 00:25:14,999 that you're still, you know, get over yourself. Yeah, and like 410 00:25:14,999 --> 00:25:17,819 what Sandy said in a couple of episodes ago, just, you know, 411 00:25:18,539 --> 00:25:21,619 you never know what these little moments may yield, just, just 412 00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:27,079 acknowledge, be considerate, and hey, someone wants to meet you. 413 00:25:27,079 --> 00:25:31,399 That's think about the day when that doesn't happen. Yes, you 414 00:25:31,399 --> 00:25:34,639 know, yeah. And it's like, why? What's the point? 415 00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:36,259 You know, well, I'm always, 416 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:44,260 I guess I just, I, I'm always stunned that somebody is that 417 00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:48,040 excited to meet me, because I'm just, when I look at myself, I'm 418 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,060 just John, you know, but to somebody else, they listen to us 419 00:25:52,060 --> 00:25:57,040 forever, and it just thrills them to you know? And it, it 420 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,880 makes my day, actually, because I think, wow, I touched 421 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,880 somebody's life. How cool was that? 422 00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:06,600 Very cool. And it's a matter of what a great responsibility you 423 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:06,840 have. 424 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,740 Yeah, you know very much. So, so, yeah, look at it. So yeah, I 425 00:26:10,740 --> 00:26:15,540 met, yeah, anytime I've met some people that are famous, and 426 00:26:15,540 --> 00:26:19,260 that's why we were saying, I'm glad to see that pedestal kind 427 00:26:19,260 --> 00:26:20,580 of disappear. 428 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,420 I had like in the group of radio stations in Vegas when we moved 429 00:26:26,420 --> 00:26:30,440 out there, the program director for extreme radio was featured 430 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:33,860 in R and R magazine. Yeah, at least I want to say that was 431 00:26:33,860 --> 00:26:36,860 there was two big ones at the time, and I used to read them 432 00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:40,120 cover to cover. I was so passionate about radio, and he 433 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:42,880 had such a cool cover because they took him out into the 434 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,820 desert and he was wearing a hockey jersey with the logo on 435 00:26:45,820 --> 00:26:49,180 it, and they, you know, took the shot and everything and put it 436 00:26:49,180 --> 00:26:52,540 on the cover of the magazine. His name was Dave Wellington. Is 437 00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:58,060 Dave Wellington, and I never thought Vegas would be an 438 00:26:58,060 --> 00:27:03,420 option. Here I was still at the i 95 in Connecticut, starting to 439 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,600 put my toe in the water to explore opportunities. And I 440 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,420 remember seeing that go that would be so cool to work in the 441 00:27:09,420 --> 00:27:11,820 desert. You know what? I mean, yeah. And then, you know, two, 442 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,480 two years later, it became a reality. And I'm working with 443 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,480 the guy who I saw, not with him, but, you know, in the same 444 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,380 building. And I'd walk by his office and, like, it was like, 445 00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:25,040 starstruck I was going there he is, you know, wow. And he 446 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,040 became, he became a friend, you know. And it was really kind of 447 00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:31,460 cool to be in a building that people were getting a lot of 448 00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:35,420 accolades from the industry. We were working with cat Thomas, 449 00:27:35,420 --> 00:27:38,600 who was a premier program director for kl, you see, and 450 00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:42,340 went on to become, like, a big regional programming, mind and 451 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:46,720 influential in the business for music radio stations. And he 452 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,220 was, I was funny because he his wife gave me. He was a big Ohio 453 00:27:51,220 --> 00:27:56,020 State guy. Yeah, Ohio State guy. So one of the Halloween parties, 454 00:27:57,460 --> 00:28:01,260 we had a big thing at one of the local restaurants, like a get 455 00:28:01,260 --> 00:28:03,900 together and a celebration of sorts. It was a really cool 456 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:08,220 event for us and at the radio stations, and we were having a 457 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:12,180 Halloween costume contest. So I told his wife, I said, Hey, 458 00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:15,900 could you get me one of his jerseys and I'm gonna get a wig? 459 00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:19,920 She goes. Why? I said, because I'm gonna dress up as him. And 460 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,520 she thought that was the most unbelievable. She thought that 461 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,420 was the funniest thing. And I think I'm pretty sure I won the 462 00:28:26,420 --> 00:28:30,080 actual contest because I showed up looking like I'm awards, 463 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,920 like, used to wear a visor. Yeah, I had the like, black hair 464 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,780 wig and Ohio State jersey. And he thought, he thought it was 465 00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:41,440 hilarious. We took a picture with each other and everything. 466 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,980 So a lot of unassuming people in that building, some of the radio 467 00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:48,940 stations, yeah, they were, you know, too busy being fabulous. 468 00:28:48,999 --> 00:28:51,039 Oh yeah, there's something like that. It was, 469 00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:53,799 you know, for most part, yeah, you didn't run into too many 470 00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:57,399 people, even when I got here to Nashville, so unassuming. Oh 471 00:28:57,399 --> 00:28:59,079 yeah, everybody here was so cool. 472 00:28:59,259 --> 00:29:02,639 Well, and I, I gotta relate a story to you. I was thinking 473 00:29:02,639 --> 00:29:08,939 about the other day. We recently lost Reverend Jesse Jackson, and 474 00:29:09,299 --> 00:29:15,239 not saying I agreed with him much of anything, but we were at 475 00:29:15,239 --> 00:29:15,479 the 2004 476 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,860 Democrat convention in Boston, 477 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:26,240 and we were, I think radio row was actually in the airport, the 478 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,580 Boston Airport, and 479 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,000 the airport, airport, or either the train, 480 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:36,980 it was in the bathroom. It was weird. It 481 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,140 was a weird place. But 482 00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:45,700 the day Jesse was there. I was just watching him. Just amazed. 483 00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:50,920 I was amazed how much the media, I don't know if they were 484 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,520 following him or if he was drawn to the cameras one of the two, 485 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,080 but the guy was just made for media. I mean, he was I was 486 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,580 amazed. I was just. Was kind of digging, watching how he how he 487 00:30:02,580 --> 00:30:08,100 worked. Plus it was interesting because we had a lady that 488 00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:13,860 produced the STEVE GILL show, which she is now a big media 489 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:17,820 person now herself. Is Scotty, similar, Hughes, yeah, yeah, 490 00:30:17,820 --> 00:30:22,460 yeah. Well, I noticed Jesse was following her around a lot too, 491 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,580 because she was, you know, quite attractive, good looking blonde, 492 00:30:25,580 --> 00:30:28,460 yeah, good looking blonde, and he was following her a lot. But 493 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,500 what was really funny is when he came up to because Scotty sent 494 00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:38,600 him up to Phil's show, we're sitting there. And as he comes 495 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,240 up, he comes up to me, and he goes, What's your name? And I 496 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,680 said, I'm Johnny B. And he goes, Johnny B, you the man? And he 497 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,380 fist bumped me. And I started laughing, because I thought 498 00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:53,620 that's the funniest thing I've ever heard. But he smiled, and I 499 00:30:53,620 --> 00:30:56,440 thought, you know this guy, I may disagree with him, but 500 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:57,040 there's something 501 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,120 cool about him, and it's, isn't that funny? You know, here you 502 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,160 are recounting a story that happened 22 years ago. Yes, you 503 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,140 know, in light of the guy's demise, very polarizing figure 504 00:31:10,140 --> 00:31:10,680 in America. 505 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,760 Oh, very much so. 506 00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:15,060 And, you know, it's really cool like this. These are the kind of 507 00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:18,720 conversations that I wish we could start having. I think 508 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,680 we're starting to have them more and more to kind of bridge the 509 00:31:21,860 --> 00:31:24,440 divide, so to speak, which eventually has to happen. 510 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:25,460 It gotta happen, 511 00:31:25,460 --> 00:31:28,940 yeah, you know. And it's like, you know, despite our the way we 512 00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:32,600 think and our differences and backgrounds, we could still find 513 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,680 some common ground. 514 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,860 Oh, yeah. Well, like when he died, that's the first thing I 515 00:31:36,860 --> 00:31:39,980 thought of, was that I didn't think about all the things I 516 00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:42,940 disagreed with him on I thought about that interaction. Yeah, 517 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,240 that's what I thought, Man, that's something that stuck with 518 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,260 me. I tell you a great interview, I think for everyone 519 00:31:50,260 --> 00:31:55,960 to watch, and a lot of you will sit and go, I'm not gonna watch 520 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,480 that because I don't agree with him, or I don't agree with him, 521 00:31:59,020 --> 00:32:04,740 but it's between Charlie Kirk and Bill Maher. My that had to 522 00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:10,440 be the best debate I have ever watched in my life, because 523 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:16,380 these two guys treated each other with respect. You could 524 00:32:16,380 --> 00:32:21,140 tell they liked one another. They didn't agree, but they they 525 00:32:21,140 --> 00:32:25,700 agreed to disagree, which is key? Yeah, it is. Well, in fact, 526 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:32,600 I got a good lesson in that when at the 2004 Democrat convention, 527 00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:38,300 Phil had Richard Dreyfus came on, and Phil and Richard had a 528 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:42,940 great conversation. Didn't agree on anything, but it was 529 00:32:42,940 --> 00:32:48,100 respectful. It would they, they they debated. They didn't. One 530 00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:52,360 wasn't yelling at the other like Rob Reiner would do rest his 531 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,420 soul. But yeah, it, it's makes me long for those days when 532 00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:02,400 people would debate instead of call each other names. 533 00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:07,260 I just think we're gonna get past this phase. We will, yeah, 534 00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:12,000 it has to happen. It always comes in cycles like that. And a 535 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,580 lot of people are just put, you know, putting on a show for the 536 00:33:14,580 --> 00:33:16,620 cameras too. Oh yeah, it's WWE 537 00:33:16,980 --> 00:33:19,380 Well, I mean, let's just be honest, that's what Donald 538 00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:22,880 Trump's doing. He's putting on his show. Yeah, you know how to 539 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,840 do fake news. Fake news well. Plus he can also duck out of 540 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,140 answering a question that way too. Oh, you're fake news. 541 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,520 Yeah, okay. I honestly think, and I'll say it right here, that 542 00:33:34,580 --> 00:33:36,800 everything that we've been seeing him do, even it's 543 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,040 starting to a lot of people who are, we're champions of him, are 544 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,980 going wait what you know, and it's like, you know, you know, 545 00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:49,300 there's a part of me that wants to say the guy's too smart, and 546 00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:53,140 I actually believe this. He's too smart to just be that 547 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,540 flagrantly ignorant, right? He's doing there's a plan to this. 548 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:04,380 And I think my philosophy, or my hypothesis, is that he's look, 549 00:34:04,980 --> 00:34:09,420 the country is divided. You need a common enemy. If it's me, then 550 00:34:09,420 --> 00:34:13,560 fine, yeah, I'll be the common enemy. It's not like I'm running 551 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,380 for president again. Once I'm done with these four years, I'm 552 00:34:16,380 --> 00:34:20,360 done, I'm gonna go enjoy the rest of my life. What's left of 553 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,660 it. And you know, if you all hate me and that that's what 554 00:34:23,660 --> 00:34:27,980 brings you together, fine, yeah, I'll be that scapegoat. That's 555 00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:30,920 my I could see. I hope you're right. I think 556 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,340 it possibly is. I hope you're right, because sometimes, and I 557 00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:34,880 voted for the 558 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,980 guy, yeah, as did I, and 559 00:34:36,979 --> 00:34:40,899 I don't hate him, of course, I don't hate any I mean, I didn't 560 00:34:40,899 --> 00:34:46,119 care for Obama as a president, but meet a guy I would too. I 561 00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:49,899 mean, I didn't I didn't hate him. I didn't hate Clinton, you 562 00:34:49,899 --> 00:34:50,739 know, but 563 00:34:51,460 --> 00:34:52,600 for the days of Clinton, 564 00:34:56,139 --> 00:34:58,419 well, we did have a balanced budget. We had a balanced 565 00:34:58,419 --> 00:35:01,019 budget, and you know what it was? It. They were looking back 566 00:35:01,019 --> 00:35:02,939 on it. It was a bad time 567 00:35:02,940 --> 00:35:04,980 of life. No, it really wasn't. It wasn't bad 568 00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:07,500 at all. But at the time, we thought it was like the world 569 00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:09,420 was ending. Oh yeah, this is horrible. 570 00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:14,400 This is horrible. And then we went through Obama years, and 571 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,060 then the Biden 572 00:35:15,060 --> 00:35:18,900 years was real bad. But, you know, okay, the equal 573 00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:21,440 opportunity offender, even the Bush years were kind of like, 574 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,920 wait, what? Oh, George W, he was hilarious. Oh, and he we, 575 00:35:28,340 --> 00:35:32,300 there was a few times I just went, Man, this guy, Lord have 576 00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:33,500 mercy, yeah. 577 00:35:34,820 --> 00:35:37,580 What I love about, you know, the circling the drain concept is 578 00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:40,180 the fact that, here we are talking about politics, and this 579 00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:41,200 is the last thing you want. 580 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,620 Yeah, it was like, We that's one thing I did say we were going 581 00:35:44,620 --> 00:35:46,780 out. I don't want to talk politics. And yet, here we are. 582 00:35:46,780 --> 00:35:49,000 We're kind of talking about, we're reminiscing. Well, we 583 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,760 are reminiscing. We're reminiscing about a lot of 584 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,540 things. But, yeah, I hope I don't come across on here that 585 00:35:55,540 --> 00:36:00,540 I'm down on radio. I'm not. I love radio. I loved my time in 586 00:36:00,540 --> 00:36:04,020 it, because it was my whole life. I mean, I I did other 587 00:36:04,020 --> 00:36:07,260 things too, like music, you know, I played music on the 588 00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:12,780 road, and that was fun. But radio has been a huge part of my 589 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:15,840 life, and I enjoyed, I enjoyed it, even through the the 590 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,940 horrible times which there were some, I mean, you know, there 591 00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:25,280 was some bad radio management too. But you know, even though 592 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,940 management would be bad, I enjoyed the camaraderie of the 593 00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:30,200 people I worked with. 594 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,040 Are a lot of people keeping in touch with you, from where you, 595 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,160 who you worked with, and such like in the recent station. 596 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:46,120 No, there's two that Ken Weaver stays in touch more than 597 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,320 anybody, and every now and then I hear from Matt Murphy, which 598 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,840 is nice, but I miss everybody there. I did go to I was going 599 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:01,920 to church with Joan Jones and Chris hand, but I quit doing 600 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:07,200 that, because all it did was make me long for it made me sad. 601 00:37:07,619 --> 00:37:12,119 I have more people, and I spent, you know, 17 years of my adult 602 00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:16,679 professional life in radio. I maybe talk to three. 603 00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:20,540 That's what's sad about radio, is that you make such great 604 00:37:20,540 --> 00:37:21,140 friends. 605 00:37:21,140 --> 00:37:24,860 But once you move away or you go to another 606 00:37:24,860 --> 00:37:27,260 gig, it's out of sight, out of mind. 607 00:37:27,260 --> 00:37:30,080 And that what, what was different about Dave White, 608 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,800 because even though we quit working together, we stayed 609 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:38,720 tight, we stayed and we called each other all the time. And 610 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,520 that's that's why I miss the guy so much because out of everybody 611 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:49,720 I worked with in radio, Dave was a true friend. He he was there 612 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,840 even at my worst times. You know, I mean, his guy could 613 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,020 count on that was and I think Phil would have been the same 614 00:37:56,020 --> 00:38:01,080 way, I'm sure, because we were, to be quite honest, I think Phil 615 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:06,000 was getting tired. I think once they took away the syndication, 616 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,720 I think he kind of hit a point where he's going, I want to do 617 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,180 something different. I think he was going to go and do 618 00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:14,940 podcasting, and I think he wanted me to get into it. 619 00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:17,399 Well, I think ultimately, whatever he was going to do, you 620 00:38:17,399 --> 00:38:20,179 were going to be, definitely, you were going to be as Keith 621 00:38:20,179 --> 00:38:21,499 Richards to his Mick Jagger. 622 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,100 Well, I don't know, I think, because the way he was making it 623 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:30,200 sound, he wanted to do something on his own, and he wanted me to 624 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,840 do something different, like he said, You ought to do one on 625 00:38:33,260 --> 00:38:37,280 music. I said, Well, yeah, that'd be up my alley. I think 626 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,980 he's wanting to do I think he's wanting to work more with 627 00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:40,940 Campbell, right? 628 00:38:40,940 --> 00:38:44,440 And they did, which made sense. They had the pod goats, sure. 629 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,780 And that was, that was an interesting show. I mean, 630 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:48,580 Campbell put a lot of work into that. 631 00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:53,980 He was really, I hope Campbell gets into podcasting again, 632 00:38:53,980 --> 00:38:57,820 because he's a talented I don't think Campbell realizes how 633 00:38:57,820 --> 00:38:58,780 talented he is. 634 00:38:59,139 --> 00:39:00,959 Most talented people don't. They don't. 635 00:39:01,020 --> 00:39:06,000 And I wish somebody, because I don't think I'm able to do it. I 636 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:12,300 hope somebody will fill the role of his father in pushing him to 637 00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:16,920 do something creative, because he should. He's a very talented 638 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:22,040 kid. I say kid because he is a young adult and I'm old, but 639 00:39:23,180 --> 00:39:29,000 older, I'm older, thank you, but yeah, I and, you know, I was 640 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,040 really sad when we ended up not working together, but at the 641 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,720 same time, I was hoping, well, maybe he'll find somebody around 642 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:41,980 his age group that he can do a podcast with because I know he'd 643 00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:42,760 be great. 644 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,660 I wanted him to do the capes and hammers podcast with us. He 645 00:39:46,660 --> 00:39:49,600 should, couple years ago, yeah, about Marvel movies and stuff 646 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,080 like, oh yeah, he'd be great. I know, you know, you say he's 647 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,340 probably a encyclical encyclopedic knowledge of comic 648 00:39:57,340 --> 00:39:58,480 book lore. 649 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:04,080 Well, we need it. I. The thing about him was, when Phil brought 650 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,700 him in one day to the station, you know, he was both, I think 651 00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:15,000 he was sick, and every time Phil would leave the studio, Campbell 652 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,100 would jump into his chair and start talking into the mic. And 653 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,060 one of the times I put on the I said, Man, you look pretty 654 00:40:23,060 --> 00:40:25,340 comfortable. There. Are you thinking about doing this for a 655 00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:30,440 living? He said, Yeah. So I thought, yeah, he's gonna follow 656 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,900 in his dad's footsteps. So I hope he does 657 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,740 well, if you're listening, Campbell, that's We implore you, 658 00:40:36,860 --> 00:40:37,100 yeah, 659 00:40:37,099 --> 00:40:41,259 we do. We do. In fact, they, I think they were going to replace 660 00:40:41,679 --> 00:40:44,379 me with Campbell. I think that's the what the general manager had 661 00:40:44,379 --> 00:40:48,459 in mind. Because one day they had Campbell come in. He was 662 00:40:48,459 --> 00:40:52,299 supposed to shadow me to see what I do. And I thought, well, 663 00:40:52,299 --> 00:40:58,059 I know what's happening here. I'm getting ready to be trounced 664 00:40:58,059 --> 00:41:01,979 out of here. And it was funny, because Campbell, I don't think 665 00:41:01,979 --> 00:41:06,959 Doug what I did, because he goes, Oh, wow, I've got some 666 00:41:06,959 --> 00:41:12,179 place to be, but I'll be back. I said, Okay, Campbell. And so it 667 00:41:12,179 --> 00:41:14,939 got to be about an hour later, and I told Phil. I said, is 668 00:41:15,479 --> 00:41:20,779 Campbell coming back? He said, Nah, gambling coming back. Yeah, 669 00:41:20,779 --> 00:41:23,779 well, that's what he told me. Said, Nah. I said, I knew he 670 00:41:23,779 --> 00:41:25,159 wouldn't. Well, he probably, 671 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,680 you know how much it paid, yeah, 672 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:30,920 he saw my paycheck, went, Oh, I don't 673 00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:36,260 want to do that. I could make more on this myself. And that's 674 00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:40,720 the thing, is that, you know, figuring out what, you know how 675 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,140 to monetize these things? That's that's where a lot of these in 676 00:41:44,140 --> 00:41:47,560 my skill set kind of comes into play. Yeah, you know, again, if 677 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,580 you want a ground opportunity, ground floor opportunity, to 678 00:41:51,580 --> 00:41:55,420 advertise with the show, yeah, hit us up. Yeah. There is an 679 00:41:55,420 --> 00:41:56,440 audience here. Come on. 680 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,540 Now, yeah. What are you doing? What are you 681 00:41:59,739 --> 00:42:02,819 waiting on? Come on. My buddy's hopefully coming back with it. 682 00:42:04,739 --> 00:42:10,079 Let's see. He's the person I talked about earlier, about his 683 00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:13,139 comment on commentary on radio. Yes, should be coming through. 684 00:42:13,139 --> 00:42:14,099 So anyway, 685 00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:17,699 you know radio, 686 00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:21,739 and I'll echo the same words that you said, I don't like 687 00:42:21,739 --> 00:42:26,899 being down on radio either. I left on my own terms because I 688 00:42:26,899 --> 00:42:30,199 felt like I scratched that edge. Yeah, no, it was time to do 689 00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:35,359 something else. I got it out of my system and but, you know, 690 00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:38,239 once you're a radio there are people in radio and then there 691 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,739 are radio people. You entirely separate, different types of 692 00:42:41,739 --> 00:42:45,699 personalities. And it's and radio people are very 693 00:42:45,699 --> 00:42:51,819 passionate, I mean, to an amazing fault, yes, about the 694 00:42:51,819 --> 00:42:55,599 business, yeah. And I would imagine when they hear people 695 00:42:55,599 --> 00:43:00,039 who used to be in it talk the way we do, yes, because we've 696 00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:04,979 seen the other side. We're living the other side. It's not 697 00:43:04,979 --> 00:43:08,039 to rain down on radio. It's almost like a 698 00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:12,539 we're mourning 699 00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:17,399 in a way, or trying to give a cautionary morning to them that 700 00:43:17,459 --> 00:43:20,659 things are going to have to change. Or, you know, it could 701 00:43:20,659 --> 00:43:22,759 die, and I don't want to see it die. 702 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,220 There's a potential for it to change. And, of course, 703 00:43:25,220 --> 00:43:31,220 embracing the notion of podcasts in combination with, you know, 704 00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:33,740 radio stations and having a big stick and that can reach 705 00:43:33,740 --> 00:43:38,900 everybody, you know, essentially doing what the I heart model is, 706 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,180 a lot of companies can do that. It's not too late. No, it's not. 707 00:43:43,540 --> 00:43:50,200 And I see a lot of opportunities for radio to grow into the new 708 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:58,300 age and do and to become a well, just stay viable. Just stay 709 00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:01,440 relevant. And that's what I'd like to see. We were talking 710 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:07,200 about Phil, because I said, I remember when we went from being 711 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,160 syndicated back to local. I was actually looking forward to it. 712 00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:18,120 And there was a week where I didn't get to he went back to 713 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:24,680 being local. I had to run tapes of best ofs for a week, and when 714 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:30,560 I got back the whole the whole show had changed. I couldn't 715 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,760 believe how different it was. It was because Pamela fur was on 716 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:40,360 news, and she, all of a sudden, had become Phil sidekick. I was 717 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,580 not like I remember the first show back. I don't think I said 718 00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:49,960 a word the whole show. So it was a whole different thing. And I 719 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:55,780 thought, at first it made me angry, but then I listened to 720 00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:58,240 them and I thought, well, they sound pretty good together. 721 00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:04,259 You're so. Um, generous. You know what I mean? Not that I'm 722 00:45:04,259 --> 00:45:06,359 saying anything bad. I don't know Pamela, right? I've never 723 00:45:06,359 --> 00:45:09,059 had them together. Well, she's a good talent, but you're, you're 724 00:45:09,059 --> 00:45:14,879 looking, you're so quick to set yourself aside, you know? Well, 725 00:45:14,879 --> 00:45:14,999 I 726 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:20,780 do that because it because when I do radio, I don't just 727 00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:22,999 you're thinking about the audience. I'm thinking 728 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:29,000 about the audience. I'm also listening to the dynamic, and I 729 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:36,020 could tell that he was enjoying working with her. I I did on 730 00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:40,120 occasion. There have been times I've worked with Pam, I've 731 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,180 really enjoyed it the other times. I did, be quite honest, 732 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,560 but that's not to talk about her talent. She's She's talented. 733 00:45:48,220 --> 00:45:51,880 But I even went to Phil and I said, Look, man, if you're 734 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,980 wanting this, I need something. I need an outlet, because I 735 00:45:56,980 --> 00:46:01,020 don't want to be a buddy, a button pushing producer. So I'm 736 00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:05,280 going to do something a first here in circling the drain. 737 00:46:06,060 --> 00:46:11,160 Circling the drain. We got Mr. The guy cackling in the 738 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,160 background on the phone is a good friend of mine, John David, 739 00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:14,940 the guy who's been 740 00:46:14,940 --> 00:46:18,720 circling the drain longer than any of you. 741 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,200 I love it. So this is a good friend of mine I was talking 742 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,860 about earlier, John David, wells, he's the one who really 743 00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:29,240 succinctly put to like he and I used to talk about radio 744 00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,020 circling the drain back in the early 2000s Yeah. And he said it 745 00:46:33,020 --> 00:46:36,800 so well, what is it, John David, that you JD, that you've said, 746 00:46:36,860 --> 00:46:40,180 meet Johnny B by the way, you know Phil Valentine and 747 00:46:40,180 --> 00:46:43,000 everybody in that yes I do. Yes, I did. What a great, 748 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,300 what a great broadcaster he was. Oh, my goodness gracious. Left 749 00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:48,820 us way too soon, and good to meet you. 750 00:46:48,820 --> 00:46:52,180 Is it? Johnny b That's right, good to meet you. 751 00:46:53,679 --> 00:46:57,279 Well, that's awesome. What I used to say about, and I still 752 00:46:57,279 --> 00:47:00,819 say about radio. I've got a couple of different sayings. And 753 00:47:00,879 --> 00:47:04,319 by the way, those conversations with James McCarthy regarding 754 00:47:04,319 --> 00:47:09,779 this industry were classics. We it wasn't one of these, you 755 00:47:09,779 --> 00:47:13,559 know, bitch fests. You know, James and I genuinely discuss 756 00:47:13,619 --> 00:47:16,559 the future, genuinely discussed. I'm not saying that's what 757 00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:19,499 you're doing now. I'm just saying that we genuinely discuss 758 00:47:19,499 --> 00:47:22,699 the future of this industry, and I still think there is one, but 759 00:47:22,699 --> 00:47:25,699 it's certainly not where we are now. And I had a couple of 760 00:47:25,699 --> 00:47:30,619 different different things. One of them was, in order to be 761 00:47:30,619 --> 00:47:35,659 successful with radio, you have to you have to give your 762 00:47:35,659 --> 00:47:39,859 employees, you have to give your on air team, especially four 763 00:47:39,859 --> 00:47:46,119 things, have to give them money, opportunity training and 764 00:47:46,119 --> 00:47:47,019 respect. 765 00:47:47,260 --> 00:47:48,820 Wow, if you, 766 00:47:48,940 --> 00:47:52,540 if you don't have money, you have to operate, you have to you 767 00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:56,140 have to give them, you have to provide opportunity, training 768 00:47:56,140 --> 00:48:00,360 and respect. If you don't have money or opportunity, then you 769 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,540 have to provide training or respect. These are all 770 00:48:03,540 --> 00:48:06,480 successful scenarios, and sometimes, if you don't have 771 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,300 money, opportunity training, respect will carry the day. But 772 00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:16,980 if you don't have money, opportunity training or respect, 773 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,540 it's because you're working for Clear Channel or cumulus. 774 00:48:24,739 --> 00:48:28,939 I love it, and it's funny because 775 00:48:28,940 --> 00:48:33,380 it's true, yeah. So, so the scenario goes like this, and the 776 00:48:33,380 --> 00:48:36,500 other one that I said is this is, I do believe that the future 777 00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:41,200 of radio, there is a future in radio, but we better get 778 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,700 started, and we better get started in a big damn hurry, 779 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,620 because what I keep saying is, is that the meek shall inherit 780 00:48:50,620 --> 00:48:55,660 the mess. Yeah, for the sake, for the sake of the entire 781 00:48:55,660 --> 00:49:01,500 medium, these corporations need to let go some of their 782 00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:04,260 properties that they can't afford to run anyway, yeah, you 783 00:49:04,260 --> 00:49:07,080 know, like, for example, they need to, they need to cut loose 784 00:49:07,740 --> 00:49:13,140 a Class B, FM, and a city grade am, in all the major markets to 785 00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:17,640 somebody, not them. You know, whether it would be the wells 786 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:23,600 McCarthy broadcast, whatever it would be, right? They need to 787 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:28,040 get out of they need to give themselves some real 788 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,300 competition. They've got to see beyond the next profit and loss 789 00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:35,360 statement. And they've got to see the next. They've got to see 790 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,560 beyond the next. Okay, how do we convince people that we're still 791 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:44,920 a viable medium when we clearly are not missing out on all the 792 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:51,220 revenue that's being sucked up by by by the Internet. How can 793 00:49:51,220 --> 00:49:54,820 we change that around? And we have to get busy, and we have to 794 00:49:54,820 --> 00:49:56,020 get started on there right now. 795 00:49:56,860 --> 00:49:59,740 Well, thank you, sir. Can I call you back when we're finished? 796 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:06,480 No, I will. I will talk to you later. Thank you for that. We're 797 00:50:06,660 --> 00:50:08,340 gonna, we're gonna wrap this episode up. 798 00:50:08,340 --> 00:50:12,060 So of course, you can. I'm still gonna be working on my petition 799 00:50:12,060 --> 00:50:16,860 to change the that guy's name, that last name, to change the 800 00:50:16,860 --> 00:50:24,440 last name from Landreth to pass. Done. You know, I've got some 801 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,200 friends in the Nevada legal system. I'm working on it, 802 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,360 because, because his first name is Jack, so his last name would 803 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,240 be asked, would be much more accurate, Jack, ask. Would be 804 00:50:40,240 --> 00:50:41,920 much more accurate. Jack, 805 00:50:47,260 --> 00:50:49,780 yeah, from that, I love this industry. 806 00:50:52,060 --> 00:50:55,420 I don't understand why people keep sending my resumes back. 807 00:50:58,540 --> 00:51:01,140 You're a very honest person. Yes, you are, 808 00:51:02,219 --> 00:51:03,419 and that's refreshing. 809 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,600 All right, my friend, well, I'll call you back. 810 00:51:07,619 --> 00:51:12,359 Okay, fine. Bye. Well, he's right that he is everything he 811 00:51:12,359 --> 00:51:16,859 said was right. And you know, my father predicted this to me back 812 00:51:16,859 --> 00:51:20,839 when deregulation happened. He said, he said, I feel sorry for 813 00:51:20,839 --> 00:51:23,359 you guys, because he said what's going to happen is they're not 814 00:51:23,359 --> 00:51:26,479 going to be able to repay their debt. He said they're going to 815 00:51:26,479 --> 00:51:31,219 run these stations to where they're just not as enjoyable to 816 00:51:31,219 --> 00:51:36,199 listen to, and they're going to lose a lot of talent to their 817 00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:36,919 own doing. 818 00:51:37,219 --> 00:51:39,259 Well, that's the thing. Is that, you know, okay, maybe it's an 819 00:51:39,259 --> 00:51:42,639 opportunity for new investors to come in and see the see the 820 00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:47,019 benefit and opportunity for investment of it's a making 821 00:51:47,019 --> 00:51:51,099 sure. How do you translate that to a public that's already on? 822 00:51:51,459 --> 00:51:54,639 Yes, you know digital devices that are listening in that 823 00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:55,119 manner, 824 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,660 so Well, I think personality is going to be the thing that will 825 00:51:59,140 --> 00:52:00,400 is, that's what they forgotten. 826 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,560 Is personality, if you have, like, you know, a big blackout, 827 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,580 you know, some sort of that, you know, disaster happens radio is, 828 00:52:08,580 --> 00:52:12,360 you know, is the you go back to that. That's the emergency 829 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:16,740 backup as it stands right now, exactly now, you know, because 830 00:52:16,740 --> 00:52:19,800 we do have personalities out there in the form of YouTubers 831 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,060 and podcasters and things of that nature, you got a lot of 832 00:52:23,060 --> 00:52:26,300 people who, you know, the gatekeepers are removed, and 833 00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:30,260 it's a true meritocracy with podcasting. Hey, if you want to, 834 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,740 you think you can play radio, go knock yourself out. Yeah, see 835 00:52:33,740 --> 00:52:37,520 what kind of an audience you can dredge up. It's not easy, as 836 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,620 easy as you think. No, it's not, especially with, you know, so 837 00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:42,940 many options. 838 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,540 Oh, yeah, well, and just you know, for those that are wanting 839 00:52:46,540 --> 00:52:51,040 to try talk radio, you may think it's easy, but talk radio is 840 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:56,680 probably the toughest, toughest format to try to do, most 841 00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,920 expensive too. Oh, it is expensive, but it's worth it, 842 00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:03,600 though, because your audience, if you're engaging, they will be 843 00:53:03,660 --> 00:53:05,580 right with you whole way. 844 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,220 I think we got to wrap up by saying a lot of nice things 845 00:53:08,220 --> 00:53:08,700 about Mr. 846 00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:13,680 Jay Harper. Again, I do too Jay. Jay is probably one of the best 847 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:18,720 broadcasters I've ever met. He's got a great voice, and I thank 848 00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:24,200 God every day that number one that you inspired me to do this, 849 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:29,420 and that Jay Harper happened to invite me out to lunch, and the 850 00:53:29,420 --> 00:53:33,260 stars aligned, yeah, it did, and I am thankful for that. And, 851 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,100 man, we miss him. We want him back on here. So it is really, 852 00:53:37,100 --> 00:53:41,020 yeah, he adds a lot to the show. I'd love to get you know, you've 853 00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:45,340 just been introduced to JD. You know, JD is ever in town to have 854 00:53:45,340 --> 00:53:48,640 him on and just have the four of us, we could do it. I mean, four 855 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,960 hours talking about, you know, stories of radio. Oh, yeah, you 856 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,340 know, well, I'd like to get more in because our, our salesman 857 00:53:57,340 --> 00:54:01,680 episode was kind of short, so i and plus, we have far more sales 858 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,060 people that we can talk about that we forgot about. Well, 859 00:54:06,060 --> 00:54:10,860 yeah, and like you said, they're almost bigger personalities than 860 00:54:10,860 --> 00:54:14,940 on air personalities were they were, yeah, so be sure and join 861 00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:18,660 us for the next circling the drain. Jay will be back. Be sure 862 00:54:18,660 --> 00:54:23,060 and follow us. Look at our website, circling the drain.net. 863 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:29,420 And anytime you can join us, and we will respond to you as well. 864 00:54:29,420 --> 00:54:33,200 So if any time you want to leave a comment or so, we will let you 865 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,980 know that we're listening to you, and keep listening to us. 866 00:54:36,980 --> 00:54:40,120 We'll be back with circling the drain next time you you.