WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.340 --> 00:00:12.540 I'm Travis Bader and this it's the silver core podcast. 00:00:13.979 --> 00:00:17.970 Silvercore has been providing its members with a skills and knowledge 00:00:18.030 --> 00:00:22.650 necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years. 00:00:22.680 --> 00:00:26.820 And we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:32.970 If you enjoy the positive and educational content we provide, please let others 00:00:32.975 --> 00:00:37.740 know by sharing, commenting, and following so that you can join in on 00:00:37.830 --> 00:00:39.630 everything that Silvercore stands for. 00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:43.350 If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the 00:00:43.350 --> 00:00:48.680 Silvercore Club and community, visit our website at Silvercore.ca 00:00:54.430 --> 00:00:58.620 today's guest is a entire Canadian special forces JTF, two sniper. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.220 Dollars the limitations presented by recording a 00:01:02.220 --> 00:01:04.230 podcast remotely into that end. 00:01:04.230 --> 00:01:06.960 We've been trying to coordinate an in-person discussion 00:01:06.960 --> 00:01:08.130 for quite some time now. 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:13.470 So here we are another milestone for the Silvercore podcast recording its first, 00:01:13.475 --> 00:01:16.320 both audio and video on location podcast. 00:01:16.410 --> 00:01:18.480 Welcome to the silver core podcast. 00:01:18.930 --> 00:01:19.365 Sean 00:01:19.365 --> 00:01:19.800 Taylor. 00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:20.940 Outstanding. 00:01:20.940 --> 00:01:21.300 Thanks so 00:01:21.300 --> 00:01:21.990 much for having me. 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:22.860 This is amazing. 00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:24.720 Thank you so much for having me into your home. 00:01:24.930 --> 00:01:26.670 This is a beautiful place that you live in. 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:31.050 In fact, I'm a little envious of the, uh, the city you're in and we're 00:01:31.170 --> 00:01:32.400 gonna be checking it out right now. 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:35.550 I think, uh, maybe a move might be in order in, uh, in 00:01:35.550 --> 00:01:36.720 the not too distant future. 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:36.990 We'll see. 00:01:36.995 --> 00:01:38.370 Well, let, well, let me know. 00:01:38.370 --> 00:01:41.400 I'll be pleased to point you in the right direction of a moving company. 00:01:43.170 --> 00:01:43.680 excellent. 00:01:43.770 --> 00:01:44.370 Excellent. 00:01:44.789 --> 00:01:51.090 So, you know, I was talking with and he brought your name up and he had so 00:01:51.090 --> 00:01:52.440 many great things to say about you. 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:56.820 And, uh, you really came onto my radar at that point. 00:01:56.825 --> 00:02:00.960 And I started watching your social media and you have been sharing some 00:02:00.960 --> 00:02:05.460 really cool stuff there, stuff about your background lessons, learned some 00:02:05.460 --> 00:02:10.440 positivity, uh, insights on things that you've seen and encountered 00:02:10.440 --> 00:02:11.580 that you can share with others. 00:02:11.580 --> 00:02:14.820 And that was one of the big things that really motivated 00:02:14.825 --> 00:02:16.050 me to want to meet with you. 00:02:16.230 --> 00:02:18.450 You are obviously very intelligent. 00:02:18.450 --> 00:02:20.100 You're thoughtful about what you put out. 00:02:20.130 --> 00:02:25.320 You're, uh, you're come across as very kind and compassionate and all under 00:02:25.320 --> 00:02:30.900 this exterior of a warrior, which is some, a really neat dichotomy. 00:02:30.990 --> 00:02:31.410 And. 00:02:32.130 --> 00:02:35.610 I also understand that you are working on a book as well. 00:02:35.610 --> 00:02:39.030 And I thought maybe we could have an opportunity to talk a little bit about 00:02:39.030 --> 00:02:42.960 what that might be without spoiling the, uh, the plot and maybe delve 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:44.220 into a few different areas there. 00:02:44.790 --> 00:02:45.270 Sure. 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:46.740 Uh, well, thanks for saying that. 00:02:46.740 --> 00:02:53.160 I mean, that's a very, um, generous and, and thoughtful, um, opening 00:02:53.250 --> 00:02:55.440 sequence on, on certainly on me. 00:02:56.880 --> 00:02:58.770 I'm not sure I deserve all that praise. 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:05.430 Um, but, uh, in respect to S Lewa, uh, yeah, he's the man I loves he's. 00:03:05.430 --> 00:03:06.570 He's an awesome dude. 00:03:06.575 --> 00:03:13.740 And, and, uh, everything that uh, I'm doing right now is, uh, partially. 00:03:14.295 --> 00:03:20.685 Um, because of S and his sound direction and his, uh, leadership in respect to 00:03:20.715 --> 00:03:25.335 just trying to do things better on social media, be more positive, be a little 00:03:25.335 --> 00:03:28.155 more thoughtful as a leader, perhaps. 00:03:28.160 --> 00:03:31.455 And, and so I'm just trying to follow in his footsteps a little bit. 00:03:31.455 --> 00:03:33.525 I would say that's, uh, that's pretty 00:03:33.525 --> 00:03:33.765 neat. 00:03:33.825 --> 00:03:38.325 You know, I'm watching the lives that, uh, people are affecting around 00:03:38.325 --> 00:03:40.095 them both positively and negatively. 00:03:40.095 --> 00:03:43.665 And we had a discussion prior to recording here about some of the 00:03:43.665 --> 00:03:46.725 negative things that people can do that affect other people's lives. 00:03:46.725 --> 00:03:50.835 And the ripple effect that'll have when it comes to the positive 00:03:50.835 --> 00:03:52.305 things that people can impart. 00:03:53.115 --> 00:03:55.305 Uh, I'm looking at, like, for example, right. 00:03:55.305 --> 00:03:57.855 Nows is doing, uh, mental health walks. 00:03:57.855 --> 00:03:59.505 I think they're once a week or what's that? 00:03:59.505 --> 00:03:59.565 Yeah. 00:03:59.565 --> 00:03:59.805 Every 00:03:59.805 --> 00:04:03.375 Sunday or every second Sunday, but certainly on the Sundays for sure. 00:04:03.615 --> 00:04:04.095 Right. 00:04:04.215 --> 00:04:05.625 Uh, I haven't got out to one yet. 00:04:05.625 --> 00:04:06.675 I probably should. 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:10.065 I'd really like to, I just, you know, gotta find the time to do these things. 00:04:10.755 --> 00:04:17.399 But that was in, um, In response to some, something that was negative 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:18.630 that had, had, had happened. 00:04:18.630 --> 00:04:19.980 I remember it was on Christmas. 00:04:19.980 --> 00:04:22.409 I was talking with him and like, how you doing? 00:04:22.415 --> 00:04:23.520 He's like, not too good. 00:04:23.850 --> 00:04:24.780 I'm like, what's going on. 00:04:24.784 --> 00:04:25.050 Right. 00:04:25.050 --> 00:04:31.020 And he relays a story about somebody who's having a difficult time who, um, uh, 00:04:31.025 --> 00:04:33.210 really should be reaching out to others. 00:04:33.210 --> 00:04:35.700 And I was having difficulties with mental health. 00:04:35.700 --> 00:04:39.990 Luckily everything turned out well for this individual, but, uh, shortly 00:04:39.990 --> 00:04:43.830 thereafter sub says, you know, I'm, I'm gonna just use social media. 00:04:43.950 --> 00:04:45.000 I'm gonna reach out through that. 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:49.980 And I'm going to use that to, uh, uh, have people, um, if, if they 00:04:50.010 --> 00:04:53.190 want to talk, if they can DM me, if they want to, if there's something 00:04:53.190 --> 00:04:55.680 I can share from my background, that might be helpful, we'll use that. 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:58.770 And that kind of morphed into, you know, maybe just meet in person. 00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:00.180 Maybe there's something that we can do. 00:05:00.180 --> 00:05:03.930 And I have a feeling that what he's doing and the commitment he's putting 00:05:03.930 --> 00:05:06.870 it in the regularity of having these mental health walks is probably 00:05:06.870 --> 00:05:08.039 gonna have a ripple effect where. 00:05:08.655 --> 00:05:11.175 Other people in other locations start doing the same thing. 00:05:11.925 --> 00:05:12.705 Yeah, for sure. 00:05:12.705 --> 00:05:18.735 You know, uh, one thing abouts is he he's a true leader without a doubt. 00:05:19.245 --> 00:05:26.055 And he, he's a bit of a visionary as well and where this mental health walk 00:05:26.205 --> 00:05:28.425 goes ultimately is anyone's guess. 00:05:28.425 --> 00:05:32.835 But even if it went nowhere, it's already gone somewhere. 00:05:33.284 --> 00:05:33.555 Right. 00:05:33.555 --> 00:05:39.195 And so I, what I love abouts is, um, he got something in his mind 00:05:39.195 --> 00:05:41.294 and he started executing against it. 00:05:41.294 --> 00:05:43.724 And, and now the rest will take care of itself. 00:05:43.724 --> 00:05:50.414 And not just in the small localized aspect of the left coast or Vancouver 00:05:50.414 --> 00:05:52.515 area, it's, it's much larger than that. 00:05:52.515 --> 00:05:58.425 As soon as he pulled the trigger, it, it was across Canada in, in some way. 00:05:58.455 --> 00:05:58.815 Right. 00:05:58.875 --> 00:06:02.594 And, and, you know, um, we're both talking about it right now. 00:06:02.594 --> 00:06:05.985 So it's, it's touched us in its own little way. 00:06:05.990 --> 00:06:07.155 And I. 00:06:07.975 --> 00:06:11.005 Of course, I'm chatting with a number of guys on the regular and it's 00:06:11.005 --> 00:06:12.625 touched them in a number of ways. 00:06:12.625 --> 00:06:17.995 And so ultimately what it turns into is probably less important 00:06:17.995 --> 00:06:19.345 than what it's already done. 00:06:20.335 --> 00:06:20.965 I agree. 00:06:21.115 --> 00:06:21.715 I agree. 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:26.395 And that was one of the areas that, you know, we're talking before, I'm looking at 00:06:26.395 --> 00:06:31.255 the different podcasts that I've done, and some I've had some phenomenal people on. 00:06:32.235 --> 00:06:37.395 But when you hit those keywords, uh, Xas X, SBS, JTF two, you put 00:06:37.395 --> 00:06:41.955 these little keywords in all of a sudden it opens up the, the podcast 00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:45.465 to, uh, the search algorithm for people who might be searching for it. 00:06:45.945 --> 00:06:49.335 And it opens up the, uh, the spectrum of people who might be listening to it. 00:06:49.335 --> 00:06:53.055 So, uh, you are in the process of doing something very similar. 00:06:53.055 --> 00:06:56.145 You're sharing positivity, you're sharing your life experiences. 00:06:56.145 --> 00:07:01.095 You're talking about, uh, difficulties and overcoming them, how you spent time 00:07:01.125 --> 00:07:05.955 coaching, high level athletes to, uh, on both physical and mental conditioning. 00:07:06.495 --> 00:07:09.735 And, uh, I think given your background. 00:07:10.155 --> 00:07:14.385 What you've been through, not only helps lend credibility, but it helps 00:07:14.385 --> 00:07:18.225 lend exposure that, um, it really helps get your message out there. 00:07:18.765 --> 00:07:22.935 Um, I would be interested in talking a little bit about your 00:07:22.935 --> 00:07:28.275 background and then kind of working that into what you're doing now 00:07:28.305 --> 00:07:29.775 and where you see yourself going. 00:07:30.225 --> 00:07:30.735 Yeah, sure. 00:07:31.545 --> 00:07:37.905 You know, the one thing that I will start off with saying is you're right. 00:07:38.940 --> 00:07:44.940 Um, my background does lend credibility and I'm hesitant to say that. 00:07:44.940 --> 00:07:50.520 In fact, I was struggling to say it, as I said it and, and it's because it's 00:07:50.550 --> 00:07:53.850 a relatively new realization for me. 00:07:54.060 --> 00:07:58.590 Uh, I've been told this a number of times that, uh, my background lends 00:07:58.590 --> 00:08:04.020 credibility to some of the things that I say, but I, I, I struggle with that idea. 00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:05.910 Mm-hmm but it's true. 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:07.050 It does. 00:08:07.110 --> 00:08:10.020 And the, the titles that I carry. 00:08:10.315 --> 00:08:15.985 Um, they do have a larger reach than I thought they would or 00:08:15.985 --> 00:08:18.295 should, but it is what it is. 00:08:18.295 --> 00:08:24.534 And so I'm not trying to duck any of those titles, but I'm trying also 00:08:24.534 --> 00:08:26.905 not to capitalize on them either. 00:08:26.905 --> 00:08:28.135 I'm just trying to be me. 00:08:28.405 --> 00:08:31.495 And as it turns out, some people are interested in that. 00:08:31.495 --> 00:08:33.265 And so that's a good thing. 00:08:33.564 --> 00:08:33.955 So I'm 00:08:33.955 --> 00:08:40.075 curious, uh, I have my own, uh, thoughts as to why I P but why the struggle about, 00:08:40.284 --> 00:08:45.975 uh, Leaning on the background in order to help propel the, uh, the positivity 00:08:45.975 --> 00:08:47.925 to propel what you're doing right now. 00:08:48.105 --> 00:08:48.195 Mm-hmm, 00:08:48.645 --> 00:08:49.545 , that's a great question. 00:08:49.545 --> 00:08:52.785 I, I think there's probably no, one's asked me that question. 00:08:52.790 --> 00:08:53.415 So thanks for that. 00:08:54.385 --> 00:08:57.375 I, I think there's probably two reasons is I'm kind of real time 00:08:57.380 --> 00:08:59.685 processing an answer for you. 00:09:00.015 --> 00:09:03.255 And the first one is easily understood. 00:09:03.260 --> 00:09:10.485 And that is, uh, if, if I'm speaking specifically about JTF two, when we were 00:09:10.485 --> 00:09:18.015 coming up in that system, it, we were so under the radar that, um, you know, it 00:09:18.015 --> 00:09:23.955 was an entirely different beast of, uh, keeping it quiet mm-hmm and so anything 00:09:23.955 --> 00:09:28.185 that we did or have done, I've, I've kind. 00:09:28.955 --> 00:09:33.695 Put it as part of my DNA to never discuss that or never use it 00:09:33.695 --> 00:09:36.275 in a way that is exploitative. 00:09:36.395 --> 00:09:36.695 Right. 00:09:36.700 --> 00:09:38.465 I, I would, I would never do that. 00:09:38.765 --> 00:09:38.915 Right. 00:09:39.065 --> 00:09:47.255 And so the system in a sense, um, has developed the reality for me that 00:09:47.255 --> 00:09:49.595 I just don't talk about it a lot. 00:09:49.985 --> 00:09:50.015 Mm. 00:09:50.075 --> 00:09:51.575 Uh, if that makes sense. 00:09:51.665 --> 00:09:51.785 Oh, 00:09:51.785 --> 00:09:52.385 it totally does. 00:09:52.385 --> 00:09:54.125 And that, that would be my gut reasoning. 00:09:54.125 --> 00:09:56.015 Why you would mm-hmm have some hesitation. 00:09:56.195 --> 00:10:04.315 Now the second part, um, is because my nature, I, I struggle between, um, things 00:10:04.505 --> 00:10:08.345 that I've accomplished and talking about the things that I've accomplished, because 00:10:08.705 --> 00:10:12.605 there's a line where depending on the audience that you're talking to, where the 00:10:12.665 --> 00:10:14.555 more correctly, the person in front of. 00:10:16.125 --> 00:10:22.185 Some of the things that I've done in the past would seem a little crazy 00:10:22.185 --> 00:10:25.335 or a little, um, almost unbelievable. 00:10:25.455 --> 00:10:25.755 Sure. 00:10:25.760 --> 00:10:30.615 For, for lack of a better term, an average person mm-hmm who has not 00:10:30.615 --> 00:10:33.285 used to these kind of crazy things. 00:10:33.285 --> 00:10:37.965 And so I've, over the years, I've tried to tell a tailor too. 00:10:37.965 --> 00:10:43.215 And, and oftentimes I'm the other person on the receiving end. 00:10:43.245 --> 00:10:45.835 Their eyes are a bit buggy and they don't, they don't believe 00:10:45.835 --> 00:10:46.795 it, perhaps they don't believe it. 00:10:46.935 --> 00:10:47.115 Right. 00:10:47.115 --> 00:10:53.325 And so I I've just learned not to talk too much about some of the things 00:10:53.325 --> 00:10:58.875 that I've done or, or some of the, uh, things that I've seen more correctly. 00:10:58.875 --> 00:11:04.245 And, and perhaps, uh, that is a part of me, uh, part of my DNA. 00:11:04.250 --> 00:11:08.085 I'm not sure, but to your point, I'm learning. 00:11:08.450 --> 00:11:11.960 Over the last little while through this social media process, that I've 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.580 gotta find a better balance between telling a story without telling 00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:18.500 too much of the story, I suppose. 00:11:18.590 --> 00:11:18.890 Yeah. 00:11:18.890 --> 00:11:22.760 That's a, you know, some of the, there's some authors out there, I forget what 00:11:22.850 --> 00:11:24.590 Andy McNabb's real name was, but right. 00:11:24.710 --> 00:11:27.860 But he, he was one of the first guys that came out writing in 00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:32.000 immediate action and bra Bravo two, zero, and a few other books, man, 00:11:32.060 --> 00:11:33.590 that guy's a storyteller, right. 00:11:33.595 --> 00:11:33.880 That's right. 00:11:33.885 --> 00:11:38.480 Like, and he can, he can tell a, a spin, a good yarn without 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:39.710 giving away a bunch of stuff. 00:11:39.710 --> 00:11:42.950 But I think he came under a whole ton of heat as well during that process. 00:11:42.950 --> 00:11:47.840 And now it seems more normal normalized for people who have gone through a special 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:53.390 forces root to be able to talk about it afterwards, but it's still got that. 00:11:53.395 --> 00:11:58.290 Um, Uh, I, I think there's gotta be a social stigma associated with it as well. 00:11:58.560 --> 00:11:59.190 I think so. 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:04.920 And you know, I don't wanna, um, create a conversation around perhaps 00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:09.090 some of the teams that are out there versus the teams here in Canada. 00:12:09.350 --> 00:12:12.840 I, I, I'm gonna try not to make that comparison, but to your. 00:12:14.015 --> 00:12:16.365 Specific point about, uh, Bravo two zero. 00:12:17.145 --> 00:12:19.755 Um, I do recall this may or may not have happened. 00:12:19.815 --> 00:12:21.585 Mm-hmm and I'm just gonna say that. 00:12:21.590 --> 00:12:21.885 Sure. 00:12:21.975 --> 00:12:28.185 I do recall, uh, allegedly I do recall one of our guys, uh, PO possibly heading 00:12:28.190 --> 00:12:34.065 over to the UK to possibly, uh, deal or, or work with another organization 00:12:34.065 --> 00:12:41.055 in the UK and coming back with a Bravo two, zero book signed by Andy and, 00:12:41.055 --> 00:12:44.235 uh, and he just put it right up in my face and said, check that out. 00:12:44.385 --> 00:12:45.525 And I was like, what? 00:12:45.530 --> 00:12:47.895 Cuz I really enjoyed the book when it came out. 00:12:47.900 --> 00:12:55.995 It was one of the forerunners of that almost mystique, um, story. 00:12:56.055 --> 00:13:03.314 And so, you know, These kind of early front running books were 00:13:03.865 --> 00:13:05.655 phenomenal for, for what they did. 00:13:05.655 --> 00:13:11.775 They, they kind of created a entirely new world for some people mm-hmm . Um, 00:13:11.775 --> 00:13:17.265 but in those early days, I think the pacing of the release of information 00:13:17.265 --> 00:13:19.125 was a lot more appropriate than it is. 00:13:19.125 --> 00:13:19.485 Now. 00:13:19.725 --> 00:13:21.165 I can appreciate that. 00:13:21.615 --> 00:13:26.145 Now, talking about front runners and for runners, you were a part 00:13:26.145 --> 00:13:30.615 of a team that essentially were the, um, where JTF two started. 00:13:30.615 --> 00:13:36.135 If I'm not mistaken, you were, you helped create what, uh, JTF two is now. 00:13:36.765 --> 00:13:37.185 Yeah. 00:13:37.189 --> 00:13:42.105 And, and I'll, I'd like to reframe that, uh, I, I didn't help create anything other 00:13:42.105 --> 00:13:44.145 than I was a part of something, so, right. 00:13:44.535 --> 00:13:47.055 Um, Yes. 00:13:47.175 --> 00:13:49.995 I, the term I believe is plan holder. 00:13:50.355 --> 00:13:50.475 Okay. 00:13:50.475 --> 00:13:55.365 And so that indicates someone who was there right from the onset, right 00:13:55.365 --> 00:13:57.225 from the beginning of the teams. 00:13:57.225 --> 00:14:00.525 And, and I was very privileged and, and it was an honor of 00:14:00.525 --> 00:14:02.865 course, to be part of that process. 00:14:02.870 --> 00:14:09.915 And when it all started off, when JTF two kicked off, it, it wasn't really, 00:14:09.915 --> 00:14:11.625 I didn't notice JTF two at the time. 00:14:11.625 --> 00:14:13.665 I'm not even sure it had a name at the time. 00:14:13.935 --> 00:14:13.965 Mm. 00:14:14.385 --> 00:14:18.435 When it all kicked off, we kind of didn't know what we were getting ourselves into. 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:24.885 I do recall in, um, when I was in the regular military, there was a 00:14:24.885 --> 00:14:30.615 memorandum outside of my commanding officer's, um, headquarter building. 00:14:30.615 --> 00:14:33.495 And I looked at that memorandum, uh, pinned on the wall. 00:14:33.495 --> 00:14:36.855 And I generally read along the lines of, we can't tell you. 00:14:37.335 --> 00:14:40.485 It you're gonna be doing, we can't tell you where you're gonna be doing it. 00:14:40.485 --> 00:14:45.015 And we can't tell you how hard it is gonna be, but if you're interested sign here 00:14:45.015 --> 00:14:46.935 and I was like, I'm, I'm all about that. 00:14:47.415 --> 00:14:52.455 And, you know, probably stupidly and, and, and very shallowly considering 00:14:52.460 --> 00:14:55.935 the, uh, what I was getting myself into, but I was all about that. 00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:56.185 Yeah. 00:14:56.185 --> 00:15:00.285 So that, that just spoke directly to my soul. 00:15:00.285 --> 00:15:06.945 And so I was all in, and, and in the early days we didn't know where 00:15:06.945 --> 00:15:10.365 we were going or what we were gonna be doing or how long precisely. 00:15:10.605 --> 00:15:10.665 Mm. 00:15:10.875 --> 00:15:15.075 And, and I wouldn't, now that I know, uh, I wouldn't have changed a thing 00:15:15.075 --> 00:15:21.105 of course, but at the time it was quite a leap of faith, if you will. 00:15:21.525 --> 00:15:21.705 Yeah. 00:15:22.005 --> 00:15:22.755 Oh, I can appreciate. 00:15:22.755 --> 00:15:23.625 Well, how old were you? 00:15:24.315 --> 00:15:30.465 I was, when I got badged into the team, I think I was about 29 years old. 00:15:31.545 --> 00:15:31.935 Okay. 00:15:31.965 --> 00:15:35.325 So, uh, you've been at that point, you'd been with Canadian 00:15:35.325 --> 00:15:37.515 armed forces for, for some time. 00:15:37.515 --> 00:15:37.725 And 00:15:37.785 --> 00:15:43.305 yeah, I was, I was relatively qualified, uh, to put my name in the hat, to maybe 00:15:43.305 --> 00:15:45.345 have a try at getting on the team. 00:15:45.345 --> 00:15:49.305 And I think I had some things working in my favor for sure. 00:15:49.935 --> 00:15:54.285 Uh, I'd already faced a, a reasonable amount of adversity through a number 00:15:54.285 --> 00:15:56.445 of specialty qualification courses. 00:15:56.445 --> 00:16:00.195 Actually this one being one of them, the Pathfinder course is, 00:16:00.195 --> 00:16:02.805 uh, no one is a tough course. 00:16:02.895 --> 00:16:07.335 And so I was also sniper qualified and, and being a army sniper. 00:16:07.340 --> 00:16:09.045 There weren't too many of us at the time. 00:16:09.315 --> 00:16:15.375 And so that was of great interest, I suppose, to the formation of the team. 00:16:16.035 --> 00:16:20.505 And you know, not to get too far ahead of myself, you've kind of 00:16:20.505 --> 00:16:24.315 gotta pass selection before you start building a team as it were so. 00:16:24.985 --> 00:16:31.255 Um, you know, I, I wanted to be part of it, but I wasn't sure 00:16:31.255 --> 00:16:32.665 what I was gonna be part of. 00:16:32.665 --> 00:16:36.925 And as it turns out, it, it, it was being part of an amazing 00:16:37.225 --> 00:16:39.325 tier one, uh, team, for sure. 00:16:39.775 --> 00:16:44.065 So, uh, going through your Pathfinder training, what, what did that encompass? 00:16:45.025 --> 00:16:49.885 Yeah, that's, I think it's loosely referred to as one of the hardest 00:16:49.885 --> 00:16:52.165 courses in NATO, certainly at the time. 00:16:52.585 --> 00:16:55.075 Uh, I'm not sure how it stands now. 00:16:55.495 --> 00:16:57.835 I'm sure it's still extremely difficult. 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.925 Well, I'm sure, certainly one of the hardest, if not the hardest course 00:17:00.925 --> 00:17:02.845 in Canada, mm-hmm at the time. 00:17:03.355 --> 00:17:08.694 And so what it was, it was being run at the Canadian airborne regiment, uh, 00:17:08.905 --> 00:17:14.575 in UA and the course lasted 70 days. 00:17:15.524 --> 00:17:20.714 And there were no days off every day was a course day where you were, 00:17:21.224 --> 00:17:26.984 um, facing the fury of some very focused directing staff who were 00:17:26.984 --> 00:17:29.385 there to ensure that you belong there. 00:17:29.655 --> 00:17:32.054 We had a very extremely high attrition rate. 00:17:32.475 --> 00:17:36.074 I, I'm not sure if I can kick out the percentage, but it 00:17:36.074 --> 00:17:38.205 was extremely low pass rate. 00:17:39.120 --> 00:17:44.639 It the course was fairly brutal just to give some general statistics, I would 00:17:44.639 --> 00:17:49.740 say on average, over those 70 days, I was getting about three hours of 00:17:49.740 --> 00:17:52.530 sleep per night or in a 24 hour cycle. 00:17:52.530 --> 00:17:54.899 We'll call it cuz there was no day and night per se. 00:17:54.905 --> 00:17:55.260 Okay. 00:17:55.530 --> 00:17:58.409 Maybe about three hours in a 24 hour cycle. 00:17:58.409 --> 00:18:02.669 Some, some cycles, you know, two or three days you might get 10 00:18:02.669 --> 00:18:04.379 minutes of sleep kind of thing. 00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:04.860 Wow. 00:18:04.950 --> 00:18:08.970 Uh, if you were getting longer sleeps than that, it was usually on 00:18:08.970 --> 00:18:13.379 a, like a CC one 30 Hercules as you were flying from one spot to another 00:18:13.385 --> 00:18:15.360 spot to jump out at that spot. 00:18:15.629 --> 00:18:18.210 So you might get some rack on the plane. 00:18:18.210 --> 00:18:18.659 Mm. 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:23.415 Um, but even then, uh, the directing staff were there to ensure that 00:18:23.415 --> 00:18:26.205 you were working through your patrol planning and so on and so 00:18:26.205 --> 00:18:27.465 forth while you're on the bird. 00:18:27.470 --> 00:18:33.765 So not a lot of sleep and in respect to calories or food, um, 00:18:33.795 --> 00:18:39.705 generally speaking, we were working on approximately one imp per day. 00:18:39.825 --> 00:18:42.445 And so normally that, uh, a regular. 00:18:43.030 --> 00:18:47.050 Infantry soldier, as an example, would be getting at least three imps per day. 00:18:47.050 --> 00:18:49.420 We were at one imp per day. 00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:54.130 And, and that meant, so for lunch, I'd be looking forward to my pack of sugar. 00:18:54.250 --> 00:19:00.280 Yes, there, there wasn't, there wasn't much, uh, in the way of calories. 00:19:00.285 --> 00:19:06.730 So, you know, just using those two simple statistics to give an indication 00:19:06.730 --> 00:19:12.970 of how hard the course was, you were always, uh, lacking sleep and 00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:18.820 you were always lacking calories and the workload was unbelievable. 00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:22.750 The pace was, uh, so. 00:19:23.245 --> 00:19:24.025 Hard. 00:19:24.145 --> 00:19:24.175 Mm. 00:19:24.445 --> 00:19:29.875 And the stressors, the command stressors, you were always in a role, uh, whether it 00:19:29.875 --> 00:19:33.265 was the patrol commander, the navigator, the signaler to this, that, or whatever 00:19:33.535 --> 00:19:36.535 you always had stressors placed on you. 00:19:36.535 --> 00:19:43.075 And you were always under a watchful eye and the standards were extremely high. 00:19:43.465 --> 00:19:45.415 There was no room for error. 00:19:45.415 --> 00:19:49.225 And if you made a minor error, that was one strike and you got three. 00:19:49.555 --> 00:19:54.595 And so you were, you, you were always facing heat. 00:19:55.045 --> 00:19:59.305 And so what does that mean for the human body? 00:19:59.365 --> 00:20:03.145 Well, when I started the course and finished the course, I 00:20:03.145 --> 00:20:07.495 lost nearly 25 pounds of muscle over the course of 70 days. 00:20:07.795 --> 00:20:07.855 Wow. 00:20:07.885 --> 00:20:10.315 Because you had to eat your body essentially, right? 00:20:10.375 --> 00:20:13.735 Uh, we were, you know, would not be uncommon to. 00:20:14.305 --> 00:20:20.665 24 hour cycle moving through, uh, through the Bush, uh, with always your, your 00:20:20.665 --> 00:20:22.945 RAC was always over a hundred pounds. 00:20:23.425 --> 00:20:28.315 And, um, on top of that, you had your combat load that said, or so all in 00:20:28.315 --> 00:20:33.145 all to make it long story short, it was an extremely difficult course that, 00:20:33.265 --> 00:20:36.895 um, if you passed it, it was notable. 00:20:37.075 --> 00:20:44.995 And I think more for me anyway, what was more important than, uh, doing the course 00:20:44.995 --> 00:20:53.695 or passing the course was after the fact year, two, seven years to this day, I can 00:20:53.695 --> 00:21:00.000 still look at that course and think, man, Th there's not too many things that I am 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.800 gonna face that were harder than that. 00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:07.230 So it established a good baseline for me as I went towards JTF two, where I 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:12.149 thought, man, this is really hard, but I think maybe I had a harder moment 00:21:12.155 --> 00:21:14.550 on the Pathfinder course or et cetera. 00:21:14.730 --> 00:21:14.939 That 00:21:14.939 --> 00:21:16.350 framework is fantastic. 00:21:16.350 --> 00:21:16.649 Yeah. 00:21:16.679 --> 00:21:22.469 So malnourished, uh, lacking sleep 70 days. 00:21:23.310 --> 00:21:23.760 Did you think 00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:24.330 about giving up? 00:21:24.570 --> 00:21:25.050 Sure. 00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:25.620 Yeah. 00:21:25.679 --> 00:21:31.980 Um, and you know, the not never, ever thinking about giving up in 00:21:31.985 --> 00:21:34.980 the sense of, I quit out outta here. 00:21:35.040 --> 00:21:35.290 Right, right. 00:21:35.429 --> 00:21:40.560 I thought about giving up in the sense of, you know, we 00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:42.840 were also extremely dehydrated. 00:21:42.840 --> 00:21:44.280 We were limited to water. 00:21:44.280 --> 00:21:50.040 And so listen, the, the program in 1987 was fairly diabolical. 00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:50.219 Right. 00:21:50.310 --> 00:21:52.370 And I would suggest that there. 00:21:53.129 --> 00:21:57.300 Is no way that program could run today in a modern military. 00:21:57.360 --> 00:22:02.700 Just, just not because some of the things that were done, uh, in respect to the 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:08.760 limitations that were, um, put on us, uh, in food, water, sleep and so on. 00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:09.120 So forth. 00:22:10.235 --> 00:22:12.125 I, I don't think it would fly today. 00:22:12.335 --> 00:22:12.425 Right. 00:22:12.935 --> 00:22:18.155 And so there was a time when I was so, um, dehydrated. 00:22:18.155 --> 00:22:21.755 I had no water left in my one canteen for that day. 00:22:22.105 --> 00:22:22.225 Hmm. 00:22:22.325 --> 00:22:27.545 Uh, that I started formalizing or, or imagining what would I give up? 00:22:27.545 --> 00:22:29.375 What body part would I give up? 00:22:29.915 --> 00:22:34.535 just for maybe five minutes of sleep and, and maybe another sip of water. 00:22:34.535 --> 00:22:40.565 And that body part was, you know, a significant body part . So I never, I 00:22:40.565 --> 00:22:44.735 was never interested in quitting, but I did have, uh, several moments where I 00:22:44.735 --> 00:22:46.655 just thought, well, this is outrageous. 00:22:46.685 --> 00:22:46.955 Mm. 00:22:48.695 --> 00:22:51.365 What was it that would push you to drive through? 00:22:51.605 --> 00:22:56.315 Because if the attrition rate rate was relatively low, a lot of people 00:22:56.315 --> 00:22:58.115 were dropping out or being kicked out. 00:22:58.595 --> 00:23:01.205 Uh, there's something in you that could see that finish 00:23:01.205 --> 00:23:02.915 line somehow and see yourself. 00:23:03.284 --> 00:23:08.264 Uh, completing it as not an impossible Herley Herculean task. 00:23:08.595 --> 00:23:11.054 What was it that drove you to continue? 00:23:11.445 --> 00:23:12.465 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:23:12.465 --> 00:23:16.485 And, and I think, I didn't know it at the time, but I know it better 00:23:16.485 --> 00:23:23.514 now, given that I've faced other more, um, adverse, um, scenarios. 00:23:23.520 --> 00:23:27.345 As I moved on through my military career at, at the time in my Pathfinder, 00:23:27.475 --> 00:23:30.975 of course, I'd faced adversity for sure, in a number of other things. 00:23:30.975 --> 00:23:37.574 But the Pathfinder course was really the was a, a whole new level of adversity. 00:23:38.024 --> 00:23:41.115 And so what I was doing was two things. 00:23:41.120 --> 00:23:45.225 I was relying on my, my natural stubbornness mm-hmm um, 00:23:45.585 --> 00:23:47.024 I I'm just gonna do it. 00:23:47.115 --> 00:23:47.445 Right. 00:23:47.715 --> 00:23:50.324 That's what, that's what runs a lot of my life. 00:23:50.324 --> 00:23:51.735 I, I call it stubbornness. 00:23:51.735 --> 00:23:55.064 Some people call it grit, some people call it other things, but I 00:23:55.070 --> 00:23:56.685 just think of it as being stubborn. 00:23:56.745 --> 00:23:56.804 Yeah. 00:23:56.995 --> 00:23:57.195 Yeah. 00:23:57.445 --> 00:24:01.425 Um, but the other part was. 00:24:02.115 --> 00:24:05.715 I didn't really know what the next day would bring. 00:24:06.645 --> 00:24:14.685 And so I compartmentalized my, my 70 days alls I had in front of me was 00:24:14.685 --> 00:24:19.875 what was in front of me that day or that hour, or that next five minutes. 00:24:20.145 --> 00:24:22.035 And I just simply had to. 00:24:23.355 --> 00:24:25.815 Stand up and do that thing. 00:24:25.935 --> 00:24:30.014 And then 10 minutes later, I'd be doing something else and whatever that 00:24:30.014 --> 00:24:32.445 something else was, I would do my best. 00:24:32.774 --> 00:24:38.385 And so compartmentalizing my way through the 70 days, you know, on day 33, you 00:24:38.385 --> 00:24:41.205 don't know what's gonna happen on day 55. 00:24:41.205 --> 00:24:46.215 You, for me, I just would stubbornly keep doing my best. 00:24:46.215 --> 00:24:51.855 And as it turns out, you know, I think it's probably an analogy for life. 00:24:51.855 --> 00:24:57.915 You can Pathfinder your way through life by just facing some adversity and 00:24:57.915 --> 00:25:02.385 doing your best in the moment and not worrying too much about what tomorrow 00:25:02.385 --> 00:25:05.325 brings folks on being your best right now. 00:25:05.330 --> 00:25:07.785 And, and tomorrow will take care of itself when it shows. 00:25:08.520 --> 00:25:10.530 Yeah, that's great advice. 00:25:10.830 --> 00:25:15.149 And being able to compartmentalize these things, everything in its whole might be 00:25:15.149 --> 00:25:19.379 overwhelming, but right now, right here, I can take care of this next five minutes. 00:25:19.385 --> 00:25:19.950 I can do five 00:25:19.950 --> 00:25:20.429 minutes. 00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:21.000 That's right. 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:26.460 And you know, if, if on day one I could have understood the entire 70 00:25:26.465 --> 00:25:30.870 days and, and the fullness of it, man. 00:25:30.909 --> 00:25:35.370 I, I don't know what I would say on day one as to whether I wanna proceed today. 00:25:35.370 --> 00:25:38.850 Two mm-hmm . I, I, I wanna believe that I would say bring it. 00:25:38.909 --> 00:25:39.330 Mm. 00:25:39.419 --> 00:25:47.639 Uh, I, I I've got this, bring it, but it was a, it was a full 70 days. 00:25:47.639 --> 00:25:53.040 And, and, uh, I think it's kind of helpful to not fully understand what you're 00:25:53.040 --> 00:25:57.570 gonna be putting your body and your mind and your soul through, uh, sometimes. 00:25:57.629 --> 00:25:57.990 Yeah. 00:25:58.860 --> 00:26:02.879 Well, was Pathfinder training a requisite to sniper training? 00:26:03.210 --> 00:26:03.689 No. 00:26:04.530 --> 00:26:05.340 No it wasn't. 00:26:05.345 --> 00:26:05.629 Mm. 00:26:06.810 --> 00:26:07.919 Army sniper. 00:26:08.520 --> 00:26:14.010 Required a number of pre-certification, but it didn't require Pathfinder. 00:26:14.010 --> 00:26:18.990 So they were really two different sort of paths. 00:26:18.990 --> 00:26:24.270 I would suggest mm-hmm as an infantryman or as a airborne soldier, uh, one 00:26:24.270 --> 00:26:29.460 would be a Pathfinder, as an example, would be more focused on deeper 00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:33.510 reconnaissance or we'll call it behind enemy lines for lack of a better term, 00:26:33.990 --> 00:26:37.770 uh, first in, uh, sort of sorting out. 00:26:38.145 --> 00:26:43.785 The drop zone or the landing zone, or what have you, and setting up that, and 00:26:43.785 --> 00:26:47.355 then setting up roots to the objective, getting eyes on the objective, looking 00:26:47.355 --> 00:26:49.805 for secondary and so on and so forth. 00:26:49.805 --> 00:26:54.255 Mm-hmm, a lot of moving parts and a lot of sort of personal movement. 00:26:54.255 --> 00:27:01.365 And as a Pathfinder, you would be an asset that is a force multiplier. 00:27:01.365 --> 00:27:04.575 So you'd be operating independently. 00:27:04.575 --> 00:27:07.515 Generally speaking, sometimes you'd be on a two man team, but more 00:27:07.515 --> 00:27:11.685 often than not, there was so many things to do that you had to just 00:27:11.690 --> 00:27:13.425 bust a move as fast as you could. 00:27:13.425 --> 00:27:18.795 And as, as tactically, as you could to get as much done, and then you're 00:27:18.795 --> 00:27:22.095 onto the next thing mm-hmm and you're reporting to a much higher level. 00:27:22.425 --> 00:27:27.765 And so you're, as you're moving on the ground, you, you are, you're making 00:27:27.765 --> 00:27:31.365 a lot of affecting a lot of change. 00:27:31.665 --> 00:27:33.345 Mm-hmm whereas a sniper. 00:27:34.020 --> 00:27:38.910 again, you're an independent mover, but your, your responsibilities are 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:42.930 more surveillance and, and you can change the battlefield for sure. 00:27:42.990 --> 00:27:48.330 Mm-hmm but, uh, in a completely different way than a Pathfinder would, uh they're 00:27:48.330 --> 00:27:52.200 they have some similarities, but they are two different paths for sure. 00:27:53.350 --> 00:27:55.440 So you've had those under your belt. 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.880 You're looking for the next challenge. 00:27:57.389 --> 00:27:59.669 This thing who knows what it is. 00:27:59.730 --> 00:27:59.760 Okay. 00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:03.000 This mysterious memo comes up and you're like, I'm all in. 00:28:03.060 --> 00:28:04.290 What did it look like after that? 00:28:04.290 --> 00:28:07.379 What, what was the process of building with the team 00:28:07.379 --> 00:28:09.120 that you ended up being with? 00:28:09.360 --> 00:28:15.780 Mm, so first of all, selection, um, was held out in the Ottawa region 00:28:16.199 --> 00:28:22.110 and because the team was just, it was the inception of the team. 00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:25.860 There wasn't any information out there at all about what selection was 00:28:26.429 --> 00:28:30.720 you, you know, did, did you need to be able to fly and hold your breath? 00:28:31.260 --> 00:28:31.679 who knew? 00:28:32.040 --> 00:28:33.720 I mean, no one knew. 00:28:33.780 --> 00:28:34.169 Right. 00:28:34.199 --> 00:28:37.260 And so you were really entering into the void. 00:28:37.709 --> 00:28:38.820 Uh, you stepped. 00:28:39.629 --> 00:28:47.040 Into the unknown and you operated in the unknown on a daily basis, 00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:48.910 actually on a per minute basis. 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:54.750 Now I, I believe at this time, it's reasonably well known that 00:28:54.750 --> 00:29:00.480 selection has, is a reasonably set process that has a number of 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.400 things that have to be accomplished. 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:09.420 And it's quite a test mm-hmm and, and the, the men who pass or the men who 00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:16.260 don't pass, it's never for, it's never for reasons such as, um, oh, you just couldn't 00:29:16.290 --> 00:29:19.470 do enough pushups or, oh, you just were. 00:29:20.205 --> 00:29:21.855 You ran too slow. 00:29:21.885 --> 00:29:22.034 Right? 00:29:22.455 --> 00:29:23.895 It's far more than that. 00:29:23.895 --> 00:29:28.695 And, and the question, uh, that I'm sometime is asked is, well, 00:29:28.695 --> 00:29:30.585 why did this guy not make it? 00:29:30.975 --> 00:29:37.995 And, and why did you, bro, if I had that answer, , it's, it's a process and it's 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:46.725 a scientific process and it uncovers enough about a person that they, the 00:29:46.725 --> 00:29:51.794 system as a whole feels comfortable in bumping them onto the next step. 00:29:51.800 --> 00:29:52.135 Okay. 00:29:52.814 --> 00:29:54.945 There are several steps, of course. 00:29:55.004 --> 00:29:57.135 So entering into selection. 00:29:57.825 --> 00:30:01.754 I didn't know what I was facing because no one knew what we were facing. 00:30:01.784 --> 00:30:03.195 It's a bit different now. 00:30:03.314 --> 00:30:03.675 Hmm. 00:30:04.064 --> 00:30:08.655 So that process was fascinating to me. 00:30:08.925 --> 00:30:11.235 It was amazing. 00:30:11.355 --> 00:30:19.290 It was a beat down and, and it was, um, it was illuminating, I would say. 00:30:19.650 --> 00:30:19.680 Mm. 00:30:19.890 --> 00:30:21.420 Illuminating is a good word. 00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:26.790 Because as an individual, the spotlight was on you for all of your 00:30:26.790 --> 00:30:29.340 flaws and all of your strengths. 00:30:29.820 --> 00:30:36.660 And it was illuminating to me as an individual, not just for the directing 00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:40.020 staff who were observing my mistakes. 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:44.310 Um, it was, it really kind of shine a spotlight within 00:30:44.310 --> 00:30:46.020 myself of, oh my goodness. 00:30:46.020 --> 00:30:47.370 I can't believe I just did that. 00:30:47.370 --> 00:30:48.270 Is that even me? 00:30:48.270 --> 00:30:49.320 Why did I do that? 00:30:49.320 --> 00:30:54.690 Or as the stressors built and as the sleep deprivation built and so on and 00:30:54.690 --> 00:31:00.840 so forth, and because you're exposed to so many things, all of your fears, 00:31:00.845 --> 00:31:07.680 all of your weaknesses as when you're in those moments, um, if, if you are 00:31:08.340 --> 00:31:12.900 operating at a high enough level, you can get a pretty good sense of. 00:31:13.514 --> 00:31:18.645 A version of who you are in a way that you've never seen before 00:31:19.274 --> 00:31:23.504 sleep and lack thereof can do some very funny things to people. 00:31:24.375 --> 00:31:28.245 What did you learn about yourself through that process? 00:31:29.225 --> 00:31:33.405 Um, Hmm, so many things. 00:31:33.495 --> 00:31:33.615 Yeah. 00:31:34.605 --> 00:31:42.405 I think that I, I, I would wish for every soldier in the Canadian armed 00:31:42.409 --> 00:31:50.175 forces to be exposed to a process like that, a selection of some form, I think 00:31:50.175 --> 00:31:55.935 it would make every soldier, a better soldier, but more importantly would make 00:31:55.935 --> 00:31:59.385 every soldier a better human because. 00:31:59.955 --> 00:32:04.125 if, if you, as humans, we all have ego. 00:32:04.245 --> 00:32:04.455 Sure. 00:32:04.635 --> 00:32:11.325 And sometimes our ego is a bit inflated or artificial or incorrectly calibrated 00:32:11.325 --> 00:32:17.564 as to our ability to execute against that ego that we think we are mm-hmm . And 00:32:17.570 --> 00:32:25.695 so the selection process is, is strips away all of the facade of what you think 00:32:25.725 --> 00:32:32.925 you can do and helps you understand a lot better, what you are capable 00:32:33.044 --> 00:32:39.735 of as a person, as a human being, not as a shooter, not as a mover, not as 00:32:39.735 --> 00:32:47.895 a thinker, but the, what you do in the moment when, uh, times are tough, 00:32:48.345 --> 00:32:48.915 right? 00:32:50.325 --> 00:32:52.754 When the chips are down, what are you made of 00:32:53.175 --> 00:32:53.625 that's right. 00:32:53.625 --> 00:33:01.485 What, not only what are you made of, but, um, The kind of higher level processing 00:33:01.665 --> 00:33:09.255 that is required in tier one, whether you are capable of, of stepping out 00:33:09.255 --> 00:33:14.265 of the chaos that is occurring, not only internally, but in the immediate 00:33:14.270 --> 00:33:19.965 bubble, all around you stepping out of that chaos and processing at a higher 00:33:19.965 --> 00:33:25.875 level so that you are more strategic rather than just simply tactical mm. 00:33:26.535 --> 00:33:31.605 Or emotional or, and, and I can see a selection process being put in 00:33:31.605 --> 00:33:37.005 place to really help weed out those who might be, uh, mentally not at the 00:33:37.005 --> 00:33:41.055 same level as, as others might be to be able to deal with those stresses. 00:33:41.895 --> 00:33:47.205 I don't know if that was as big of a, um, consideration. 00:33:47.205 --> 00:33:49.605 I'm sure it was a consideration, but I don't know if it was as big 00:33:49.605 --> 00:33:53.065 of a consideration in the early days of special force units. 00:33:53.805 --> 00:33:59.025 Um, I would think that nowadays that that's plays a, a huge role is making 00:33:59.055 --> 00:34:02.925 sure that the person's mindset is such that they're going to be able to be 00:34:02.925 --> 00:34:05.925 useful in a long term sort of way. 00:34:06.375 --> 00:34:06.855 Yeah. 00:34:06.855 --> 00:34:12.855 I, I think, uh, you raise an excellent point there and, and in the early 00:34:12.860 --> 00:34:19.725 days or the inception of JTF two, I'm sure there was a, a wizard behind 00:34:19.725 --> 00:34:23.685 the curtain who knew what was going on, but it certainly wasn't me. 00:34:23.805 --> 00:34:24.014 Right. 00:34:24.045 --> 00:34:29.025 And, and as a, uh, operator, uh, as an assaulter and then a sniper 00:34:29.025 --> 00:34:33.445 and then moving on to team leader and so on and so forth within all 00:34:33.445 --> 00:34:36.255 of the roles that I, uh, played. 00:34:37.350 --> 00:34:42.389 I think there was so much going on that you were busy enough 00:34:42.389 --> 00:34:44.909 just doing what you had to do. 00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:52.590 I, I never felt that I was so capable of doing it all so well that I could 00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:58.590 step out of that role and observe things at such a strategic level 00:34:58.770 --> 00:35:00.540 that I could start considering. 00:35:00.900 --> 00:35:02.040 Who's the wizard. 00:35:02.250 --> 00:35:05.640 And, and what does the wizard know that I don't know. 00:35:05.670 --> 00:35:09.120 How is all of this, all of these moving parts? 00:35:09.120 --> 00:35:12.120 How, how is it all working as well as it works? 00:35:12.120 --> 00:35:16.410 Or where are we going next in the sense of as a unit? 00:35:17.130 --> 00:35:21.360 So back then, I'm not sure if that existed, perhaps it did. 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:23.460 I just didn't see it, but I think. 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:34.530 Um, on two points, I do honestly believe that, um, the, the unit is an amazing 00:35:34.710 --> 00:35:42.090 organization and that all of the early road bumps have all been ironed out. 00:35:42.090 --> 00:35:49.560 And I also think that comparing myself as an operator or the operators that, 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:58.410 uh, started off in the unit, I would argue that an operator today is possibly 00:35:58.415 --> 00:36:02.250 twice as good as what I was at the time. 00:36:02.250 --> 00:36:03.450 And, and I think that. 00:36:05.145 --> 00:36:10.035 Quite a, quite a, a big thought, because back then I thought we were pretty good. 00:36:10.415 --> 00:36:11.145 yes, I really did. 00:36:11.145 --> 00:36:16.964 I mean, we were, we were the cream of the crop as it were within the army. 00:36:16.970 --> 00:36:22.064 We were the first, uh, skimming of the cream and, and they pushed us 00:36:22.064 --> 00:36:25.185 as hard as they could and turned us into what they turned us into. 00:36:25.185 --> 00:36:29.654 And I thought we were real good at what we did, but nowadays I think that 00:36:30.165 --> 00:36:35.265 the processes that are in place not rudimentary as we were back then a 00:36:35.265 --> 00:36:40.035 very sophisticated and nuanced process that is wrapped around those operators. 00:36:40.035 --> 00:36:44.495 I think that they are far better trained, far better educated. 00:36:44.504 --> 00:36:48.855 I think that they're just better, uh, qualified humans. 00:36:49.245 --> 00:36:51.735 Uh, as they step onto that start line, nevermind. 00:36:51.735 --> 00:36:53.085 Once they cross the finish line 00:36:53.745 --> 00:36:54.945 that's what was it? 00:36:54.945 --> 00:36:55.335 Newton? 00:36:55.335 --> 00:36:58.035 Who said the reason I can see, where I can see now is cause I 00:36:58.035 --> 00:36:59.715 stand on the shoulder of giants. 00:36:59.715 --> 00:37:00.195 That's right. 00:37:00.404 --> 00:37:04.904 So I would really hope that as time goes on, that people are learning 00:37:04.904 --> 00:37:07.965 from those mistakes and building back better, but you're also gonna 00:37:07.965 --> 00:37:10.425 find a different type of person. 00:37:10.425 --> 00:37:13.455 I would think that that comes in maybe. 00:37:13.575 --> 00:37:21.855 Um, I look at, uh, so my father was on the first E R T for 00:37:21.855 --> 00:37:23.595 Vancouver and helped set them up. 00:37:23.595 --> 00:37:27.884 And I, and I look at, um, the, uh, the training programs that they put 00:37:27.884 --> 00:37:32.145 into place that we'd never fly now and the things that they would do, 00:37:32.145 --> 00:37:36.555 which would be maybe viewed as safety, third, as opposed to safety first. 00:37:36.560 --> 00:37:37.355 Right, right. 00:37:37.425 --> 00:37:39.134 And, um, mind. 00:37:39.965 --> 00:37:43.185 And when I can hear some of the old timers complaining, they say, 00:37:43.185 --> 00:37:47.115 well, people need a special course and certification just to breach a 00:37:47.115 --> 00:37:48.975 door, whereas we just do it right. 00:37:49.335 --> 00:37:52.125 Well, may, maybe there's a reason why maybe I think so. 00:37:52.245 --> 00:37:52.575 Right. 00:37:53.175 --> 00:38:00.315 um, the, uh, the type of, um, person that would get into it then might be a little 00:38:00.315 --> 00:38:03.105 bit different than the type of person who would get into that sort of a thing. 00:38:03.105 --> 00:38:05.985 Now, operationally, I'd have to agree with you. 00:38:06.105 --> 00:38:08.115 I mean, just constantly getting better and better. 00:38:08.955 --> 00:38:17.685 I'm wondering as we get new technology and resources, uh, does that change 00:38:17.775 --> 00:38:24.045 a, uh, a unit much, or would be just a fundamental grit, uh, mental attitude, 00:38:24.075 --> 00:38:30.285 uh, ingenuity, um, that the forefathers had in putting things forward, sort of 00:38:30.285 --> 00:38:34.935 Trump, any sort of, um, uh, technologies or new kit that could come into place? 00:38:35.325 --> 00:38:36.225 That's a great question. 00:38:36.225 --> 00:38:38.835 And I've given a little bit of thought and, and. 00:38:39.375 --> 00:38:42.825 Funnily enough, it's a relatively recent consideration for me. 00:38:42.825 --> 00:38:47.384 I would say over the last year, I've given it a much deeper consideration. 00:38:48.015 --> 00:38:52.545 First of all, I would like to establish that whether it'ss, whether 00:38:52.545 --> 00:38:58.365 I'm carrying a space, laser or a spear at a baseline level, if you're 00:38:58.424 --> 00:39:02.895 an elite, uh, warrior we'll say, or elite operator, you've you've, 00:39:02.955 --> 00:39:04.845 your baseline has to be good to go. 00:39:04.875 --> 00:39:09.015 You you've gotta be pretty squared away, or you've gotta have a bunch 00:39:09.020 --> 00:39:13.485 of, for lack of a better term, I'll call 'em special qualities in order 00:39:13.485 --> 00:39:16.125 to, to operate at an elite level. 00:39:16.545 --> 00:39:25.035 Now, whether it's a spear or a space laser, um, I think those are, uh, layers 00:39:25.095 --> 00:39:27.915 that are added onto that baseline. 00:39:28.275 --> 00:39:31.095 And so I'm going to use a personal. 00:39:32.325 --> 00:39:36.225 example or I'll use myself as a case study for lack of a better term. 00:39:36.615 --> 00:39:42.045 When we were coming up on the teams, the weapons that we had, we 00:39:42.045 --> 00:39:44.295 didn't have lasers mounted to them. 00:39:44.355 --> 00:39:50.505 Uh, it was, it was a big deal to get a, uh, sure fire or get a, a flashlight 00:39:50.505 --> 00:39:52.545 on, on your, uh, on your weapon. 00:39:52.605 --> 00:39:58.545 And so we, I, I was taught to shoot and, and I was already a real good shot, 00:39:58.545 --> 00:40:00.555 I think, before I went to the teams. 00:40:00.555 --> 00:40:05.715 But certainly after I went through the process, I was, as we all 00:40:05.715 --> 00:40:07.845 were, I'm not singling myself out. 00:40:08.205 --> 00:40:14.145 We are all extremely, extremely qualified to do the job. 00:40:14.345 --> 00:40:19.185 Mm-hmm . And so we were all good shots, but we're all good shots off iron sites. 00:40:19.245 --> 00:40:25.350 And so the, um, The four point MVGs or night vision goggles 00:40:25.350 --> 00:40:27.180 with lasers and this and that. 00:40:27.180 --> 00:40:32.940 I mean, those are excellent tools, but strip those tools away. 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:37.680 And at a baseline level, an elite operator is still an elite operator 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:42.210 and they can do the job with a sling shot or with a space laser. 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:42.720 Mm. 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:49.680 Now comparing my era to the modern era of tier one, I would say that 00:40:49.680 --> 00:40:52.740 they have a number of tools, tools that I wouldn't even be aware of. 00:40:52.745 --> 00:40:57.060 I would, uh, suggest, but all of those tools are simply there 00:40:57.060 --> 00:41:00.930 to facilitate the task at hand. 00:41:00.930 --> 00:41:06.030 They are there to move the needle in a, in a way that we couldn't have done 00:41:06.030 --> 00:41:11.490 in the nineties, but at the end of the day, the job would still get done. 00:41:11.700 --> 00:41:16.230 It would just be done, um, in its own unique way, but 00:41:16.230 --> 00:41:17.790 it's always gonna get done. 00:41:18.525 --> 00:41:19.214 Interesting. 00:41:19.634 --> 00:41:22.185 What was the rest of the makeup of your team? 00:41:22.185 --> 00:41:28.154 Like, because I would have to say as I go through my head here, every single 00:41:28.160 --> 00:41:33.944 person that I know who I'm either spoken with or friends with, or interacted with, 00:41:33.950 --> 00:41:39.375 who is, uh, would be considered a high level in, in their position, whether 00:41:39.375 --> 00:41:48.105 that be, um, um, police or military, um, tend to be kind compassionate, 00:41:48.194 --> 00:41:54.775 um, softer spoken, not the typical who raw type of a, um, individual 00:41:55.095 --> 00:41:58.424 gungho, uh, sort of attitude that. 00:41:59.490 --> 00:42:03.780 Hollywood would have you believe these people are, is, are you, am I just 00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:08.010 attracted to those kind of people who seem to have their ego so squarely in checked? 00:42:08.370 --> 00:42:13.050 Or is it the fact that these people who are able to, um, comport themselves 00:42:13.050 --> 00:42:16.980 in such a way, tend to make for better, uh, high level operatives? 00:42:17.430 --> 00:42:23.370 Mm, I think, I think as you move down the path towards special operations, 00:42:23.370 --> 00:42:30.390 or as you, uh, pursue that more elite level of operation, the reality is you 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:35.610 face a lot of beat downs, the amount of adversity that you are subjected 00:42:35.610 --> 00:42:41.550 to, or you must subject yourself to, in order to move to that next level is. 00:42:42.390 --> 00:42:43.170 abnormal. 00:42:43.350 --> 00:42:43.770 Mm. 00:42:44.070 --> 00:42:48.450 And so in all of that adversity, if you show up with a big 00:42:48.450 --> 00:42:50.460 ego, it's gonna get crushed. 00:42:50.700 --> 00:42:50.880 Mm. 00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:53.730 I mean, you, there is just no way around it. 00:42:53.730 --> 00:42:59.400 You cannot retain a massive ego and just Bumble you way forward to tier one. 00:42:59.405 --> 00:42:59.530 Mm. 00:42:59.670 --> 00:43:06.360 You, you get crushed out of you because you have to face all of your flaws. 00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:08.940 You have to face all of your mistakes. 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:12.150 Uh, there's a, a good friend of mine, Tim Turner. 00:43:12.180 --> 00:43:17.490 What's up Tim and, um, he's a, he's a army sniper as well. 00:43:17.590 --> 00:43:21.030 And, um, we've had a couple of laughs. 00:43:21.030 --> 00:43:25.380 In fact, while we're out at operation, Peus jump on Vancouver island this summer, 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:30.300 Tim and I were talking and, and we're both in full agreement that the army 00:43:30.300 --> 00:43:35.760 sniper course, which I did before JTF two was even a twink in anyone's eye. 00:43:36.690 --> 00:43:43.920 That course is so difficult on many levels, but one of the things that stands 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:49.319 out in the sense of difficulty is the amount of failure that you have to face. 00:43:49.560 --> 00:43:52.620 Mm I'd never faced that amount of failure before. 00:43:52.950 --> 00:43:58.500 It was so regular to fail in various aspects of that course 00:43:58.500 --> 00:44:03.210 that it, it, it was the course that started normalizing failure for me. 00:44:03.990 --> 00:44:04.650 Interesting. 00:44:04.710 --> 00:44:09.600 And up to that point, I hadn't really faced that level of failure before I 00:44:09.629 --> 00:44:13.560 things I don't wanna say things came naturally to me because that would be 00:44:13.565 --> 00:44:19.830 a, a misstatement mm-hmm , but I, I always did really, really, really well 00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:26.339 in everything that I did up until the sniper course where I was failing. 00:44:26.339 --> 00:44:32.040 And it was shaking me a little bit mm-hmm , but through that process of so much 00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:35.520 failure, it, then normalizes failure and. 00:44:36.615 --> 00:44:42.075 I became comfortable enough with failure that I started after the sniper 00:44:42.075 --> 00:44:44.595 course to begin pursuing failure. 00:44:44.774 --> 00:44:51.524 And now my, my, my regular pattern and has been for decades now is to pursue failure. 00:44:51.855 --> 00:44:52.754 Interesting. 00:44:53.085 --> 00:44:56.595 So I, I guess from a training perspective, you gotta be really careful. 00:44:56.595 --> 00:44:59.895 Like you can train people up to just to be rabbit dogs who will bite anything 00:44:59.895 --> 00:45:03.585 that moves to be so beaten that they're timid and cowering in the corners. 00:45:04.064 --> 00:45:12.855 If failure is such a normalized thing, um, there's gotta be a, a very tricky 00:45:12.859 --> 00:45:17.115 psychological balance here between making a winner out of somebody who's 00:45:17.115 --> 00:45:19.665 constantly being beaten down and failing. 00:45:20.085 --> 00:45:24.495 Um, and now that you actively seek out failure, I should only 00:45:24.495 --> 00:45:27.194 imagine it so that you can find your weak points and work at that. 00:45:27.375 --> 00:45:27.645 Yeah, 00:45:27.645 --> 00:45:28.935 that's it precisely. 00:45:28.939 --> 00:45:30.075 And the. 00:45:31.500 --> 00:45:34.740 As I'm speaking to you about it right now in real time. 00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:39.480 I'm, I'm, you know, considering the subject in real time, and I'm trying 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:40.980 to give you my real time answer. 00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:43.920 And, and you're making me think about things in, in unique ways. 00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.830 So you'll have to bear with me if it's not a very clean message. 00:45:47.310 --> 00:45:55.920 but I would say this, that it, we weren't taught how to move through that process. 00:45:56.100 --> 00:45:58.710 So on, on the sniper course, as an example, all of 00:45:58.710 --> 00:46:01.259 those failures it's on you. 00:46:01.620 --> 00:46:01.890 Mm. 00:46:01.950 --> 00:46:05.750 And you had to figure out a way, and there was no manual. 00:46:06.390 --> 00:46:08.190 There was no self-help book. 00:46:08.339 --> 00:46:12.180 There was no mentor to kind of pat you on the shoulder and give 00:46:12.180 --> 00:46:16.290 you a hug and say, I know you're struggling, but don't worry about it. 00:46:16.290 --> 00:46:19.259 Because a few years from now it's gonna be really beneficial. 00:46:19.650 --> 00:46:19.830 Mm. 00:46:19.830 --> 00:46:25.799 And so you just had to back then, and I'm not, I, I don't know what it is like now, 00:46:25.799 --> 00:46:27.950 but back then, you had to figure it out. 00:46:28.485 --> 00:46:35.565 And you had to carve a way forward that you could continue to be successful 00:46:35.565 --> 00:46:40.905 for lack of a better term in on the path mm-hmm . And so I'm not sure 00:46:40.905 --> 00:46:46.155 if that was a good way to learn, uh, or, or there's better ways to learn, 00:46:46.305 --> 00:46:48.555 but it was the way at the time. 00:46:49.005 --> 00:46:51.495 I think it takes a special person to be able to learn from that. 00:46:51.495 --> 00:46:54.435 Cuz I think there's a lot of people out there that'll get beaten down 00:46:54.435 --> 00:46:57.015 and never get back up mm-hmm and they'll carry that with them. 00:46:57.495 --> 00:47:00.825 It said Latin saying Tre right light from darkness. 00:47:01.275 --> 00:47:04.875 Um, the person who can see that light from the darkness, like a friend 00:47:04.875 --> 00:47:08.385 of mine, he says, you know, has same fellow who says he grades his 00:47:08.385 --> 00:47:10.185 mental health based on how he climbs. 00:47:10.185 --> 00:47:14.205 If he's, uh, unable to do harder pitches, he knows he's gotta step back a little 00:47:14.205 --> 00:47:16.845 bit and uh, do a few easier pitches. 00:47:17.655 --> 00:47:20.745 Because his head's not firing in the way that he kind of wants it to. 00:47:21.195 --> 00:47:26.355 He says, um, when it's stormy out and it's just miserable and he's out in 00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:32.685 the Alpine and Alpine touring and his skis, uh, he knows that he'll bunker 00:47:32.685 --> 00:47:34.905 down to build a little snow shelter. 00:47:35.265 --> 00:47:38.115 And the next day is probably gonna be some of the best skiing that he's ever seen. 00:47:38.115 --> 00:47:39.165 It's gonna be a Bluebird day. 00:47:39.165 --> 00:47:39.495 Right. 00:47:39.855 --> 00:47:45.975 But having the ability to see that, or at least somehow visualize that 00:47:45.975 --> 00:47:49.065 success in your mind or what it's gonna be like is gonna be better. 00:47:49.455 --> 00:47:55.395 I think a lot of people have difficulty with, um, what advice would you give 00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.805 someone else, or what advice would you give your younger self with your accrued 00:47:59.805 --> 00:48:04.935 knowledge over the years in being able to deal with adversity or deal with failure? 00:48:05.445 --> 00:48:06.465 Mm that's a great question. 00:48:09.495 --> 00:48:12.465 Certainly one thing. 00:48:12.465 --> 00:48:16.065 And I'm gonna use this sniper course as an example, to make my point. 00:48:17.475 --> 00:48:22.305 one thing is you have to figure out how to be the best version of yourself in 00:48:22.305 --> 00:48:27.525 the moment, all the time, irrespective of the challenge in front of you. 00:48:27.530 --> 00:48:32.145 So whether you're making your coffee in the morning or whether you're facing the 00:48:32.150 --> 00:48:37.725 hardest hardship you've ever faced, figure out how to do your best in real time. 00:48:38.505 --> 00:48:43.935 And so even when things are going completely sideways, as long as I'm doing 00:48:43.935 --> 00:48:49.755 my best, even in the full sideways moment, I know that 10 years from now, I won't 00:48:49.755 --> 00:48:54.915 have any regret as to what I was doing, as things are going sideways, where I 00:48:54.915 --> 00:48:59.595 have my most regrets is when I'm being a bit lazy when I'm not doing my best. 00:48:59.925 --> 00:49:04.365 So if it's going sideways and I'm kind of half assing it a little bit, I know that 00:49:04.365 --> 00:49:09.705 10 years from now, I'm gonna look back and I'm gonna think, man, that was lazy. 00:49:09.825 --> 00:49:11.715 Or man, I could have done better. 00:49:11.715 --> 00:49:14.025 Or man, I should have woulda, coulda. 00:49:15.015 --> 00:49:16.275 I never think that. 00:49:16.650 --> 00:49:20.730 If I'm doing my best in the moment, because if I'm doing my best, 00:49:20.730 --> 00:49:22.560 I'm, I'm literally doing my best. 00:49:22.560 --> 00:49:27.360 And, and it's based on all of the extenuating circumstances around me. 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:29.730 It's based on all of the variables that I'm taking in. 00:49:29.730 --> 00:49:33.210 And it's based on all of my experiential solutions that I'm 00:49:33.214 --> 00:49:34.920 putting into play in that moment. 00:49:35.130 --> 00:49:37.410 As long as I'm doing my best, I'm good to go. 00:49:37.650 --> 00:49:39.750 It doesn't mean that it'll be a successful outcome. 00:49:40.080 --> 00:49:40.799 It just means. 00:49:41.565 --> 00:49:43.665 I won't have any regrets in the future. 00:49:44.415 --> 00:49:45.825 How do you stop yourself? 00:49:45.884 --> 00:49:49.274 When you start going down a path, maybe invasive thoughts are coming in. 00:49:49.274 --> 00:49:52.754 You're feeling like you're tired, you're hungry, you're angry. 00:49:52.754 --> 00:49:53.745 Something's going on. 00:49:53.745 --> 00:49:54.524 I'm I'm sure. 00:49:54.585 --> 00:49:59.745 You know, even just going in traffic, some people are subjected to road rage 00:49:59.745 --> 00:50:02.294 or, or different life difficulties. 00:50:02.745 --> 00:50:06.734 When do you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to just stop 00:50:06.734 --> 00:50:07.964 yourself and say, hold on a second. 00:50:07.964 --> 00:50:09.285 Am I doing my best? 00:50:09.555 --> 00:50:10.424 Am I trying my best? 00:50:10.424 --> 00:50:11.865 Am I making the best decisions? 00:50:12.075 --> 00:50:15.225 Am I thinking about this in a way where I'll be proud later on to look back? 00:50:15.225 --> 00:50:17.955 Do you ever find yourself in a situation where that becomes clouded or 00:50:17.955 --> 00:50:18.285 is it always? 00:50:18.285 --> 00:50:18.375 I do. 00:50:18.575 --> 00:50:18.975 Okay. 00:50:19.004 --> 00:50:23.565 And, and perhaps on a regular basis. 00:50:23.654 --> 00:50:26.265 Mm, certainly more frequently than I would like. 00:50:26.325 --> 00:50:26.355 Mm. 00:50:26.745 --> 00:50:29.865 And then, uh, but I think that's part of being human. 00:50:30.660 --> 00:50:34.870 I I'm not a robot I've been accused of being a cyborg from time to time , but 00:50:34.870 --> 00:50:41.520 I am not se and, and, and I think that's part of the human condition. 00:50:41.609 --> 00:50:43.859 Um, we are, we all have flaws. 00:50:43.859 --> 00:50:46.890 We all make mistakes and we don't always do things. 00:50:46.890 --> 00:50:47.310 Right. 00:50:47.315 --> 00:50:52.950 And, and I would argue that I, I do a, a poorer job of it than other 00:50:52.950 --> 00:50:58.890 people that I know, but as long as I hang onto the fact that if I'm 00:50:58.890 --> 00:51:02.759 doing my best, then that's my best. 00:51:03.029 --> 00:51:07.589 And it using your example of traffic, like sometimes in traffic, 00:51:07.620 --> 00:51:09.390 I'm, I'm done with traffic. 00:51:09.395 --> 00:51:10.770 Mm-hmm, , I'm over it. 00:51:10.890 --> 00:51:15.540 And I'm pretty frustrated with the people who don't know how to drive or the people 00:51:15.540 --> 00:51:18.359 who are cutting in on a line or the people who are doing this, that, and the other 00:51:18.359 --> 00:51:25.140 thing, the people, and if I've gotta do something as simple as enter into a bit 00:51:25.140 --> 00:51:28.859 of box breathing, Now it's in my control. 00:51:28.859 --> 00:51:34.290 I've got things that I can do to reel back the frustration of 00:51:34.379 --> 00:51:37.109 them not being able to drive. 00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:43.290 And so if, if I kind of let it UN unspool in front of me and not take any 00:51:43.290 --> 00:51:49.799 measures to control the things that I can control such as my box breathing or my 00:51:49.799 --> 00:51:53.910 own emotional, uh, moment that's on me. 00:51:54.480 --> 00:51:59.549 And so it, it really comes down to, am I doing my best or not? 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:03.359 And as long as I'm doing my best, I can still be frustrated. 00:52:04.529 --> 00:52:08.669 , but I should be more frustrated with myself if I'm not doing 00:52:08.669 --> 00:52:11.220 anything to offset that frustration. 00:52:11.759 --> 00:52:16.169 And if I, if I'm frustrated and I'm doing my best and I'm doing everything that I 00:52:16.169 --> 00:52:22.440 can to be my best now, there may still be some frustrations involved, but if I can't 00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:24.690 change those, then I just move through it. 00:52:24.819 --> 00:52:25.169 Mm. 00:52:25.919 --> 00:52:28.740 So I know what box breathing is, but some of the listeners might not. 00:52:28.830 --> 00:52:28.859 Mm. 00:52:29.490 --> 00:52:30.060 Do you wanna explain 00:52:30.060 --> 00:52:30.149 it? 00:52:30.330 --> 00:52:30.930 Sure thing. 00:52:30.930 --> 00:52:36.660 So I, if you think of your breath as a box, so breathe in, uh, 00:52:36.690 --> 00:52:38.520 breathe in for four seconds. 00:52:38.549 --> 00:52:40.230 Hold it for four seconds. 00:52:40.290 --> 00:52:41.460 Breathe out for four seconds. 00:52:41.940 --> 00:52:43.410 Hold it for four seconds. 00:52:43.410 --> 00:52:43.770 Breathe. 00:52:44.910 --> 00:52:46.470 Hold breathe out. 00:52:46.770 --> 00:52:47.310 Hold. 00:52:47.580 --> 00:52:48.899 Now I say four seconds. 00:52:48.899 --> 00:52:50.040 It could be five seconds. 00:52:50.040 --> 00:52:51.060 It could be two seconds. 00:52:51.060 --> 00:52:54.870 It could be eight seconds, whatever you're most comfortable with in 00:52:54.870 --> 00:52:59.430 the moment based on either your, uh, experience of practicing that 00:52:59.430 --> 00:53:01.200 or how you feel in that moment. 00:53:01.470 --> 00:53:06.270 And if you can't box breathe, then you can switch to a, a, a more I'd. 00:53:06.390 --> 00:53:10.290 I call it almost like a two dimensional breathing where you breathe in, 00:53:10.620 --> 00:53:14.160 uh, for four seconds, and then you let it out for four seconds. 00:53:14.759 --> 00:53:21.819 I think it's far less about the, uh, protocol or the specifics 00:53:21.839 --> 00:53:23.520 of a timing of breathing. 00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:28.169 And it's more about switching into a more present sense. 00:53:28.169 --> 00:53:34.950 So you are actively focusing on controlling yourself in the moment 00:53:34.950 --> 00:53:39.120 through the simple observation of I'm switching to breathing. 00:53:39.120 --> 00:53:40.859 Now mm-hmm , it's just. 00:53:41.035 --> 00:53:45.625 Flicking a switch on a protocol of you owning your real time moment. 00:53:46.585 --> 00:53:49.225 Are there other things that you do to be present? 00:53:49.225 --> 00:53:52.555 I know some people they'll say I'll just concentrate on the color, right. 00:53:52.555 --> 00:53:56.035 And I'll look at that color and I'll notice how it fits in or doesn't fit in. 00:53:56.035 --> 00:53:58.015 Or it just, uh, a noise. 00:53:58.075 --> 00:53:59.515 That's something I would do quite a bit. 00:53:59.605 --> 00:54:01.404 Um, and I do with my children. 00:54:02.305 --> 00:54:04.165 They're angry, they're upset. 00:54:04.165 --> 00:54:05.424 There's something going on. 00:54:05.430 --> 00:54:10.404 Typical emotions that people have as they're growing up and I'm talking to them 00:54:10.404 --> 00:54:13.915 and I say, did you hear the plane outside? 00:54:14.125 --> 00:54:17.815 Well, no, listen, can you hear the cars? 00:54:17.904 --> 00:54:19.915 Well, I do now help with the fridge. 00:54:19.944 --> 00:54:20.904 Can you hear the fridge running? 00:54:20.935 --> 00:54:21.205 Right. 00:54:21.415 --> 00:54:23.665 And that process of just stopping and listening. 00:54:24.255 --> 00:54:26.145 Can really, and I'll do it myself. 00:54:26.145 --> 00:54:30.404 I'll, I'll use listening as one of the things to be able to help, uh, be present. 00:54:30.765 --> 00:54:31.845 Are there other things that you do 00:54:32.325 --> 00:54:37.214 yeah, though, and that's good advice to your children and to yourself and, and 00:54:37.220 --> 00:54:39.315 it's, I think it's good advice for anyone. 00:54:39.705 --> 00:54:43.575 What I do do when I'm feeling the moment when, when. 00:54:43.595 --> 00:54:48.455 Things are getting a bit, uh, sideways or a bit chaotic or a bit much we'll call it. 00:54:48.515 --> 00:54:54.334 Mm-hmm . I try to expand my 360 degree sphere, uh, to a point which it'll 00:54:54.334 --> 00:55:00.875 sounded a little kooky, but I'll try to expand my awareness of not just what's 00:55:00.879 --> 00:55:05.375 all around me, but in the room over there, I'll try to feel the room that I 00:55:05.375 --> 00:55:11.015 can't see into, but I will try to feel a much larger footprint around me than 00:55:11.375 --> 00:55:15.214 a footprint I can hear or see or touch. 00:55:15.634 --> 00:55:21.544 And so if, if I'm being honest and, and I, and if I'm really, really feeling a 00:55:21.544 --> 00:55:25.924 moment, I'll try to sense my backyard. 00:55:26.314 --> 00:55:31.865 Mm-hmm or the tree line over there, which arguably is impossible. 00:55:32.105 --> 00:55:35.225 Or is it, I suppose it all depends on how much you've 00:55:35.225 --> 00:55:36.714 done it in your life and right. 00:55:36.875 --> 00:55:40.174 And how much you've really expanded your. 00:55:40.590 --> 00:55:45.360 Awareness of what you're capable of or, or literally expanded your footprint. 00:55:45.990 --> 00:55:48.480 See the, I like, I like that explanation. 00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:51.350 I'll do something similar. 00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:53.040 Let's say I'm really angry. 00:55:53.520 --> 00:55:57.690 Um, and you're feeling, and you're in the moment, I'll try and say, 00:55:57.720 --> 00:56:01.230 how does that manifests itself physically within me, right? 00:56:01.230 --> 00:56:02.100 It was my stomach. 00:56:02.100 --> 00:56:03.060 Feel like it's tied up. 00:56:03.065 --> 00:56:04.560 Does my throat feel tied up? 00:56:04.560 --> 00:56:06.330 Am my, are my muscles clenched? 00:56:06.335 --> 00:56:06.510 Right? 00:56:06.510 --> 00:56:08.710 Or what, what am I feeling you. 00:56:09.255 --> 00:56:12.884 Find a center line to what I'm feeling and I'll try and concentrate on that. 00:56:12.884 --> 00:56:16.305 And then I'll look at the edges, meaning I'll start going out, like are the sides 00:56:16.305 --> 00:56:18.975 of my body feeling that outside my body? 00:56:19.005 --> 00:56:20.715 Like, how big is it around me? 00:56:20.955 --> 00:56:22.515 Is this, is this feeling? 00:56:22.935 --> 00:56:24.765 And then I won't try and change it. 00:56:25.005 --> 00:56:29.985 I'll just try to, non-judgmentally explore it and take a look at maybe the 00:56:29.985 --> 00:56:34.485 edges, the edges, where I don't feel that it sounds perhaps like a similar 00:56:34.485 --> 00:56:37.395 sort of thing, trying to feel in the other rooms where, where you're at. 00:56:37.965 --> 00:56:44.265 And I find if I try to change it, I'm not helping myself. 00:56:44.295 --> 00:56:44.655 Right. 00:56:44.715 --> 00:56:47.715 If I explore it, nonjudgmentally like interesting. 00:56:47.985 --> 00:56:48.315 Right? 00:56:48.525 --> 00:56:51.405 Like, and maybe in a cyborg robotic way. 00:56:51.405 --> 00:56:51.705 Right. 00:56:52.155 --> 00:56:56.085 Uh, but you try and strip that emotion out of it and explore the, 00:56:56.145 --> 00:56:58.275 uh, the perimeter of the edges. 00:56:58.785 --> 00:57:02.325 The natural Bri byproduct of that is you become a little bit more centered. 00:57:02.865 --> 00:57:03.465 I think so. 00:57:03.465 --> 00:57:12.480 And, you know, I don't want to categorize that as something that is, is a tool 00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:17.430 that is only used when you're feeling the moment mm-hmm . Um, I think it's 00:57:17.435 --> 00:57:19.680 something that you can do constantly. 00:57:19.685 --> 00:57:23.549 And let me give you a good example, perhaps when I was coaching high 00:57:23.549 --> 00:57:27.960 performance, um, ultra endurance athletes, 24 hour solo mountain bike race. 00:57:29.535 --> 00:57:34.065 24 hours of, of mountain bike racing and you know, no sleep, no stop. 00:57:34.065 --> 00:57:35.265 It's it's constant. 00:57:35.475 --> 00:57:37.005 Mm-hmm you're racing for 24 hours. 00:57:37.545 --> 00:57:41.535 Uh, you, you take food as you're racing, um, et cetera. 00:57:42.165 --> 00:57:45.765 So one of the things that I would have my athletes do, because it's something 00:57:45.765 --> 00:57:52.005 that I would do is we had, I would ask them to run an internal diagnostic and 00:57:52.005 --> 00:57:57.495 an external diagnostic as they were on the bike racing, 18 hours into it. 00:57:57.645 --> 00:57:59.205 What's your internal diagnostic. 00:57:59.205 --> 00:58:04.395 And that means you've gotta run a, a routine within yourself so that you can, 00:58:05.065 --> 00:58:08.625 um, check in with your emotional state. 00:58:09.015 --> 00:58:11.625 Uh, why are you racing in that moment? 00:58:11.655 --> 00:58:18.435 Do you understand your, why still clearly, or have you deviated from your, why 00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:21.585 are you now in a race within a race? 00:58:21.585 --> 00:58:24.975 So the race within a race, being that guy. 00:58:25.695 --> 00:58:29.775 Up on the horizon who kind of flipped you off as he went by. 00:58:29.775 --> 00:58:31.065 Are you now racing him? 00:58:31.665 --> 00:58:32.505 he he's. 00:58:32.535 --> 00:58:39.405 He's so unimportant in respect to a 24 hour racing event that you cannot 00:58:39.405 --> 00:58:44.145 afford to get emotionally distracted by someone who flipped you, the bird as they 00:58:44.145 --> 00:58:46.485 sped by, by the way, they're on a team. 00:58:46.485 --> 00:58:49.845 So they're only doing one lap, so they're fresh as a Daisy Uhhuh, but 00:58:49.845 --> 00:58:53.085 now you're wanting to chase that guy down cause he gave you some attitude. 00:58:53.385 --> 00:58:53.415 Mm. 00:58:53.445 --> 00:58:58.515 So internally you've always gotta be running that diagnostic and externally 00:58:58.935 --> 00:59:00.795 you've also gotta run that routine. 00:59:00.795 --> 00:59:03.615 So the, how are my hands and my gripping, my bar too tight. 00:59:03.615 --> 00:59:05.115 I'm at, what's my water status. 00:59:05.115 --> 00:59:06.555 What's my X, Y, and Z. 00:59:06.555 --> 00:59:10.155 So as you're moving your energy system around internally and 00:59:10.155 --> 00:59:13.915 externally, it has to be a practice. 00:59:13.919 --> 00:59:20.595 It has to be a process that after a period of time becomes normal or 00:59:20.595 --> 00:59:25.154 natural or a sub-routine that you don't have to keep triggering every 00:59:25.154 --> 00:59:30.134 one minute or every five minutes, you have to be present with yourself. 00:59:30.375 --> 00:59:34.814 Not just as you sit at a table as we are right now, but as you're 00:59:34.875 --> 00:59:42.044 executing hard tasks, that should be so distracting that you can't. 00:59:42.305 --> 00:59:47.945 Do an internal and external diagnostic, but at what point do you 00:59:47.945 --> 00:59:52.415 start becoming better at running an internal and external diagnostic in 00:59:52.420 --> 00:59:54.545 moments where things are tough, right? 00:59:54.545 --> 00:59:55.775 You gotta start somewhere. 00:59:55.775 --> 00:59:55.865 Right? 00:59:56.255 --> 01:00:00.905 So start today, start yesterday, working on an internal and an external 01:00:00.905 --> 01:00:04.535 diagnostic to better understand who you are in the moment right now. 01:00:04.835 --> 01:00:08.345 And in those moments, when things get tougher, of course, yeah. 01:00:08.345 --> 01:00:12.545 Now, or never was a time and it never, never . And it is never 01:00:12.545 --> 01:00:14.915 too late to stop and regroup. 01:00:14.915 --> 01:00:17.765 And that was a piece of advice that someone gave me a long time ago. 01:00:17.765 --> 01:00:19.295 And I thought that was a good one. 01:00:19.745 --> 01:00:24.875 Doesn't matter how far down you are on a path it's not too late to stop, regroup 01:00:25.715 --> 01:00:27.755 and make a different path for yourself. 01:00:28.175 --> 01:00:28.415 Yeah. 01:00:28.415 --> 01:00:32.885 And you know, I think, uh, that's an interesting, uh, observation because. 01:00:34.004 --> 01:00:37.245 It, you know, that's one way of framing it, but how about this way? 01:00:37.365 --> 01:00:41.535 Um, it's not that you're at a, a branching point junction where, oh, I've 01:00:41.535 --> 01:00:43.245 gotta go left or I've gotta go, right. 01:00:43.365 --> 01:00:44.595 The path is the path. 01:00:44.685 --> 01:00:45.435 Mm. 01:00:45.495 --> 01:00:49.904 And the path is a straight line in, in, in an academic sense. 01:00:49.904 --> 01:00:51.194 You're, you're on a straight line. 01:00:51.194 --> 01:00:55.544 It's just that life tends to weave and wind and up and down and, 01:00:55.544 --> 01:00:59.384 and sometimes a little backwards, but the path is, is linear. 01:00:59.390 --> 01:01:03.855 It's you progressing, but as we see it, we're at all of these branching 01:01:03.855 --> 01:01:06.524 points and, oh, I've gotta make this hard decision and oh no. 01:01:06.529 --> 01:01:07.395 What do I do now? 01:01:07.399 --> 01:01:09.674 But really you're always moving forward. 01:01:10.305 --> 01:01:17.085 As long as you're your, your, your mindset is I'm pursuing forward momentum. 01:01:17.085 --> 01:01:17.924 Always. 01:01:19.365 --> 01:01:23.339 We were talking a little bit about, um, Sort of road rage. 01:01:23.339 --> 01:01:29.009 And I remember reading a study once about, uh, the correlation between the size of 01:01:29.009 --> 01:01:34.319 the place you live in your city, your town and the, uh, prevalence of road rage. 01:01:34.830 --> 01:01:39.279 And they said, once, if you live in a small town, somebody cuts you off, you 01:01:39.390 --> 01:01:43.049 know, like, oh, that's Edith, she's probably drunk again or whatever. 01:01:43.049 --> 01:01:43.319 Right. 01:01:43.319 --> 01:01:44.160 That's, somebody's out there. 01:01:44.160 --> 01:01:44.359 That's right. 01:01:44.359 --> 01:01:44.600 That's right. 01:01:44.759 --> 01:01:48.060 You can, you can humanize that other person. 01:01:48.089 --> 01:01:50.459 And the response is different. 01:01:51.450 --> 01:01:54.390 You get past that into a much larger place. 01:01:54.390 --> 01:01:56.850 And all of a sudden, it's just a bunch of faceless people and you're 01:01:56.855 --> 01:01:58.169 not looking at the individual. 01:01:58.230 --> 01:01:59.819 You're looking at the action of what happened. 01:01:59.819 --> 01:02:03.359 And quite often people are looking at it like the person's doing it against them. 01:02:04.109 --> 01:02:08.970 So I'm looking at that analogy and I'm thinking of somebody who's coming from 01:02:08.970 --> 01:02:12.990 a tier one background outside of that. 01:02:13.620 --> 01:02:18.899 Um, You when you're in there and one of your mates does something silly and 01:02:18.899 --> 01:02:20.459 you're like, oh, that's, that's just them. 01:02:20.459 --> 01:02:20.729 Right. 01:02:20.729 --> 01:02:22.470 And you can accept them for what they are. 01:02:23.220 --> 01:02:27.899 You come out of the army, you come out of your group that you're in and 01:02:27.899 --> 01:02:29.549 you're out into the big wide world. 01:02:29.970 --> 01:02:34.740 Do you find it difficult to, or did you find it difficult to, um, 01:02:35.430 --> 01:02:38.430 uh, make those human connections? 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:39.180 Yeah, 01:02:40.830 --> 01:02:42.779 101%. 01:02:43.109 --> 01:02:43.259 All 01:02:43.259 --> 01:02:43.589 right. 01:02:44.700 --> 01:02:47.129 like, I figured you would, but I figured it framed it that way. 01:02:47.134 --> 01:02:47.250 Just. 01:02:47.805 --> 01:02:54.315 I found it, I don't wanna say unimaginably difficult, but I found it extremely 01:02:54.315 --> 01:03:00.735 difficult when I left, uh, JTF two, um, you know, I was wearing my black, 01:03:00.735 --> 01:03:03.915 uh, outfit and high speed, low drag. 01:03:03.945 --> 01:03:05.925 Uh, I was a worn officer. 01:03:06.345 --> 01:03:09.255 Uh, you know, it was, it was kind of a big deal, I suppose, 01:03:09.255 --> 01:03:10.815 in the grand scheme of things. 01:03:11.205 --> 01:03:16.575 But then that evening I was standing at the Ontario police college as 01:03:16.575 --> 01:03:21.345 a civilian signing in as a use of force instructor to do that thing. 01:03:21.345 --> 01:03:26.205 And, and man, nobody knew what I, what I'd done or what I'd been up 01:03:26.205 --> 01:03:28.185 to, or, or knew anything about me. 01:03:28.190 --> 01:03:32.085 And, and so I kind of felt like I went from a million miles an 01:03:32.090 --> 01:03:34.485 hour to about three miles an hour. 01:03:34.535 --> 01:03:34.885 Mm. 01:03:35.105 --> 01:03:39.705 And, and then a year later, Uh, after I left the Ontario police college, 01:03:39.734 --> 01:03:45.044 and now I was fully a we'll call it a veteran or a civilian, or basically 01:03:45.044 --> 01:03:49.634 a nameless faceless person, myself wandering down the, the sidewalk, man. 01:03:49.640 --> 01:03:53.055 Nobody knew, uh, anything about me or what I was about. 01:03:53.055 --> 01:03:55.484 And, and that was kind of a strange time for me. 01:03:55.490 --> 01:04:01.725 It was a bit of a disconnect because, um, I felt like I had, uh, a lot of skills. 01:04:01.725 --> 01:04:05.895 I felt like I had a lot of this, that, or the other thing, but, uh, 01:04:05.924 --> 01:04:07.875 I couldn't talk to anybody about it. 01:04:07.879 --> 01:04:11.265 Mm-hmm of course it's not like I could lean over and say, uh, 01:04:11.475 --> 01:04:13.095 so this is what I used to do. 01:04:13.125 --> 01:04:14.415 Do you get any pro tips? 01:04:15.314 --> 01:04:18.915 Uh, so, so it was an unusual time for me, for sure. 01:04:19.575 --> 01:04:23.174 Um, and, and I think. 01:04:24.675 --> 01:04:29.175 And I, I, I might not have done an amazing job of working through that process. 01:04:29.175 --> 01:04:33.795 I just did my best without any guidance or without any self-help books or 01:04:33.795 --> 01:04:37.545 without a, what do you do when you get out of tier one from a secret 01:04:37.545 --> 01:04:41.385 organization that, uh, formally doesn't exist kind of thing, you know, there, 01:04:41.390 --> 01:04:43.485 right there, there was just no pro tip. 01:04:43.485 --> 01:04:50.745 So I just kind of did my best as I focused on forward momentum, but, 01:04:50.835 --> 01:04:56.715 um, over the years and more correctly over the decades, and it's only been 01:04:56.715 --> 01:05:01.485 fairly recently that I've come to the real realization of the point that 01:05:01.485 --> 01:05:05.565 I'm gonna make now and it, and it goes back to what I just wrote down there. 01:05:05.565 --> 01:05:07.065 And that's the sniper course. 01:05:07.725 --> 01:05:13.185 So you'd asked me, uh, a little earlier about kind of what did I do or how, 01:05:13.185 --> 01:05:15.045 how would you work through that? 01:05:15.045 --> 01:05:18.555 Or we're talking about failure and et said, or so. 01:05:19.785 --> 01:05:23.925 There's a number of things that I would do when times got tough or when I had to 01:05:23.925 --> 01:05:28.245 move through that failure rate or how to continue being we'll call it successful. 01:05:28.725 --> 01:05:35.385 Um, but one of the things that I didn't mention that is so important, 01:05:35.385 --> 01:05:40.245 and perhaps I didn't understand it at the time as well as I do now. 01:05:40.785 --> 01:05:44.955 And that is man, the guys around me. 01:05:45.495 --> 01:05:49.335 So the other snipers on the sniper course who were also facing all of those 01:05:49.340 --> 01:05:53.925 failures, who were also proceeding ahead and were there on my left and right. 01:05:54.345 --> 01:05:58.125 And, and there were all facing the same struggles. 01:05:58.305 --> 01:06:00.645 We were all moving together as a team. 01:06:00.735 --> 01:06:06.495 And even as guys failed on the course, because they're extremely, extremely 01:06:06.495 --> 01:06:13.050 tough shooting standards, even as guys dropped out, um, You, we were 01:06:13.050 --> 01:06:18.240 all learning together and evolving as a, as a organism towards success. 01:06:18.780 --> 01:06:24.180 And so when I left the teams or when I left the military, uh, I didn't have 01:06:24.180 --> 01:06:29.820 that same organism mentality where like-minded people were focused on 01:06:29.850 --> 01:06:37.950 excellence and were hard charging ahead with a, a mission purpose that wasn't 01:06:37.950 --> 01:06:45.060 as common in the civilian workplace, as I did a handful of careers, but now. 01:06:45.645 --> 01:06:49.455 Today as I sit here and over the last little while, I've been able to reflect 01:06:49.455 --> 01:06:54.555 back on all of that and realize that even today, as I'm answering this question, 01:06:55.125 --> 01:07:02.504 um, I'm, I'm partly reflecting on the good men and women before me, that I worked 01:07:02.504 --> 01:07:07.935 with who, uh, in this conversation I'm representing that they found ways to be 01:07:07.935 --> 01:07:12.345 excellent and they are still excellent human beings doing excellent things. 01:07:12.765 --> 01:07:21.225 And, um, it was because of the men to my left and right that I tried to do my best. 01:07:21.285 --> 01:07:22.725 I'd have done my best anyway. 01:07:22.875 --> 01:07:23.115 Right. 01:07:23.295 --> 01:07:28.665 But them being next to me was a higher responsibility for me to 01:07:28.665 --> 01:07:34.935 really pull up my socks and, and pull that load, not just for. 01:07:35.645 --> 01:07:40.775 But for the bigger team around me, that even the team that I didn't see at the 01:07:40.775 --> 01:07:47.075 time, I just wanted to bear the extra weight on behalf of those around me. 01:07:47.195 --> 01:07:48.605 And it draws the best out of you. 01:07:48.935 --> 01:07:49.475 Isn't that 01:07:49.475 --> 01:07:58.655 interesting how human nature is such that the, um, not the fear, but the, uh, the 01:07:58.655 --> 01:08:05.585 disin inclination to let other people down, uh, exceeds our own mm-hmm we 01:08:05.585 --> 01:08:08.975 might be prepared to let ourself down, like, am I gonna go to the gym today? 01:08:08.975 --> 01:08:09.905 Or am I gonna work out today? 01:08:09.905 --> 01:08:11.705 Nah, but you gotta meet your buddy. 01:08:11.735 --> 01:08:12.755 Well, I don't wanna let them down. 01:08:12.755 --> 01:08:13.565 They're waiting for me to come. 01:08:13.595 --> 01:08:13.775 Okay. 01:08:13.775 --> 01:08:15.455 I guess I'm gonna get out of bed and go to the gym. 01:08:15.455 --> 01:08:16.985 We're gonna go, whatever it might be. 01:08:16.985 --> 01:08:17.765 That's difficult. 01:08:17.885 --> 01:08:18.845 Isn't that interesting? 01:08:18.875 --> 01:08:19.235 It is. 01:08:19.235 --> 01:08:24.525 But I, I don't think it's a universal, um, phenomenon. 01:08:24.525 --> 01:08:26.295 I don't think it's every human. 01:08:26.625 --> 01:08:26.655 Okay. 01:08:26.660 --> 01:08:27.555 Feels that way. 01:08:27.795 --> 01:08:30.465 I think that every human can feel that way. 01:08:31.065 --> 01:08:36.705 It, I believe it comes down to whether they've been exposed to what it means 01:08:36.705 --> 01:08:38.635 to be in a high performance team. 01:08:38.635 --> 01:08:38.875 Mm. 01:08:39.225 --> 01:08:42.825 Now let's pretend for a moment as a thought experiment that, uh, you 01:08:42.825 --> 01:08:45.285 know, high school student comes up through high school and they 01:08:45.285 --> 01:08:47.385 don't play any team sports at all. 01:08:47.745 --> 01:08:51.555 And, uh, when they leave high school, they don't get any hobbies. 01:08:51.555 --> 01:08:53.055 They don't join any other teams. 01:08:53.055 --> 01:08:55.305 They're not in a bowling league or whatever. 01:08:55.695 --> 01:08:58.935 Uh, they just simply don't operate in that space. 01:08:58.965 --> 01:09:00.915 And so now who, who. 01:09:01.965 --> 01:09:03.375 what is their higher calling? 01:09:03.675 --> 01:09:04.904 They've only got themselves. 01:09:05.145 --> 01:09:11.595 So, so how do they interact, uh, to better understand that you should perform at 01:09:11.595 --> 01:09:15.975 a higher level for those around you to support the, the larger team around you? 01:09:16.215 --> 01:09:20.295 Well, if you weren't raised in it, then how do you understand that? 01:09:20.295 --> 01:09:21.645 I, I don't think you can. 01:09:22.035 --> 01:09:25.185 Mm, you, you certainly can't learn it through watching Netflix. 01:09:25.545 --> 01:09:32.085 And so, uh, for me, I was lucky coming up through the system through the, through my 01:09:32.085 --> 01:09:41.145 career path that not only, uh, was I, uh, taught it, uh, directly through osmosis. 01:09:41.205 --> 01:09:44.295 You understood precisely why you were there. 01:09:44.505 --> 01:09:46.154 It wasn't about you. 01:09:46.694 --> 01:09:48.045 It was about the team. 01:09:48.525 --> 01:09:48.555 Mm. 01:09:48.615 --> 01:09:52.725 And so, and I'm not just talking about JTF two, the team I'm talking 01:09:52.730 --> 01:09:59.055 about every subunit that I was involved in, every small team that I. 01:09:59.655 --> 01:10:03.945 Uh, I, I was a part of you were there for the team, not for yourself. 01:10:04.065 --> 01:10:12.135 And so I felt it always, all of us raised all of our boats simply by the fact that 01:10:12.285 --> 01:10:15.405 we were looking at all the boats around us, trying to stay up with the other 01:10:15.410 --> 01:10:19.855 boats and do our part to ensure that those boats, and it was a constantly 01:10:19.860 --> 01:10:23.115 raising situation as a small team. 01:10:23.385 --> 01:10:29.985 But you, you, you can't do your best if you've only ever been an individual. 01:10:31.695 --> 01:10:32.205 I agree. 01:10:32.805 --> 01:10:33.165 I agree. 01:10:33.165 --> 01:10:35.445 There's only, there's a limit to where you can go when you're 01:10:35.445 --> 01:10:36.825 only looking out after yourself. 01:10:36.825 --> 01:10:40.095 And I, I think I've talked about this before with others. 01:10:40.095 --> 01:10:43.575 It's um, you know, everyone says, well, you gotta work on you first. 01:10:43.755 --> 01:10:43.965 Right. 01:10:43.965 --> 01:10:45.735 I'm getting my me time in, right. 01:10:45.735 --> 01:10:50.715 Or whatever it might be, I think to a degree, maybe that's good, but you don't. 01:10:51.645 --> 01:10:55.575 I think when you are of service to others, or you put yourself 01:10:55.575 --> 01:10:58.635 in a position where you do have a higher calling or something else. 01:10:59.594 --> 01:11:03.255 You are not only, uh, representing yourself better, 01:11:03.259 --> 01:11:04.365 but you're helping others. 01:11:04.634 --> 01:11:08.924 Um, people who are having difficulty with, uh, mental health, let's say it. 01:11:08.924 --> 01:11:11.625 They're like, well, I gotta gotten some me time and I gotta work on me. 01:11:12.150 --> 01:11:16.320 Well, I find quite often that those individuals will get so wrapped 01:11:16.325 --> 01:11:19.200 up into themselves that they can't see anything else outside. 01:11:19.200 --> 01:11:22.260 And the second they start working outside of themselves is when 01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:23.430 they start coming together. 01:11:24.030 --> 01:11:24.270 Yeah. 01:11:24.275 --> 01:11:27.630 And, and, you know, I'll use as I like to say, I'll use 01:11:27.630 --> 01:11:29.610 myself as a good bad example. 01:11:30.390 --> 01:11:36.660 um, I can use myself as an example in, in this instance and suggest that, um, 01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:42.060 you know, there was a time in my life and, and not too long ago where I was 01:11:42.060 --> 01:11:47.310 a little more focused on me rather than focused on the world around me. 01:11:47.820 --> 01:11:50.760 And, and that was because I was struggling with PTSD. 01:11:51.780 --> 01:11:54.420 Um, and, and I didn't know, I had PTSD. 01:11:54.660 --> 01:11:57.480 In fact, when I left the team's PTSD, wasn't a award. 01:11:57.485 --> 01:12:04.350 And so when I transitioned out of the, uh, JTF two, uh, my paperwork existed, uh, 01:12:05.055 --> 01:12:06.855 The back of a match book kind of thing. 01:12:06.855 --> 01:12:08.205 I didn't do anything. 01:12:08.205 --> 01:12:09.224 I didn't see anything. 01:12:09.224 --> 01:12:11.535 Never saw counselor never saw anything, never did anything. 01:12:11.585 --> 01:12:11.905 Mm. 01:12:12.014 --> 01:12:15.675 And so basically, as I sit in this seat right now, I I've 01:12:15.675 --> 01:12:18.795 kind of bumbed my way forward. 01:12:18.795 --> 01:12:20.055 Uh, if you will. 01:12:20.565 --> 01:12:27.165 So PTSD was an unknown thing to me, but when I got formally diagnosed with 01:12:27.165 --> 01:12:33.345 it, not too long ago, the great thing about that for me anyway, was say what? 01:12:33.465 --> 01:12:36.285 It's got a word and it's called PTSD. 01:12:36.855 --> 01:12:37.485 Awesome. 01:12:37.605 --> 01:12:39.405 Now I can sink my teeth into that. 01:12:39.405 --> 01:12:41.745 Now I know what I can execute against. 01:12:41.775 --> 01:12:47.955 And as is my way, uh, I started voraciously researching a path 01:12:47.955 --> 01:12:50.115 forward so that I could do my best. 01:12:50.474 --> 01:12:54.855 And, uh, speaking with people as I tried to do, who were wiser 01:12:55.005 --> 01:12:57.075 than me, which isn't hard to find. 01:12:57.644 --> 01:13:02.144 Um, and so I, I really decided to. 01:13:03.100 --> 01:13:08.140 Um, learn more about mental health and through that process of learning 01:13:08.140 --> 01:13:17.350 more about mental health, I bumped into characters like OI and that that 01:13:17.410 --> 01:13:24.250 exploring a larger world around me helped me understand, uh, a number of things. 01:13:24.250 --> 01:13:25.540 The first one would be. 01:13:26.760 --> 01:13:32.220 I'm not unique, nor are you, nor is anyone that we know mm-hmm , there is so much 01:13:32.220 --> 01:13:38.640 commonality from person to person in respect to, uh, mental health struggles. 01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:40.260 Mm-hmm mental health challenges. 01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:44.580 And, uh, it doesn't matter what uniform you wear or not. 01:13:44.585 --> 01:13:51.720 Mm-hmm , it doesn't matter whether you, uh, never leave your basement or not. 01:13:51.810 --> 01:13:52.110 Mm. 01:13:52.170 --> 01:13:53.730 None of those things matter. 01:13:54.120 --> 01:14:00.180 The reality is the commonality within the human condition is mind blowing 01:14:00.240 --> 01:14:02.820 mm-hmm . And so what to do about that? 01:14:02.820 --> 01:14:09.570 Well, as you've already stated, The tendency is when you're focused, 01:14:09.570 --> 01:14:15.330 just purely on yourself, you can kind of get lost in the white noise. 01:14:15.330 --> 01:14:18.600 The minutiae of, I don't wanna say woe is me. 01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:21.600 Mm-hmm , but you can really focus on the negative aspects. 01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:24.930 I agree of, of life and, and sure. 01:14:25.200 --> 01:14:29.790 You know, I'm, uh, there's probably a pile of people out there that can focus 01:14:29.790 --> 01:14:34.950 just on themselves and keep it all positive and, and, and rainbows and, and 01:14:34.955 --> 01:14:37.860 unicorns and, and so on and so forth. 01:14:37.865 --> 01:14:43.590 But I haven't met a whole lot of those mm-hmm I would suggest that a better 01:14:43.595 --> 01:14:49.470 way to do things is to try to be of service to something larger than yourself. 01:14:49.890 --> 01:14:50.700 And. 01:14:51.390 --> 01:14:55.950 Trying to help others is how I started my career being of service 01:14:55.950 --> 01:14:57.570 to others through the military. 01:14:58.050 --> 01:15:00.570 And, uh, that kind of became part of my DNA. 01:15:00.570 --> 01:15:05.670 And, and through the other careers that I've done, they've all been in step with 01:15:05.670 --> 01:15:08.190 that trying to be of service to others. 01:15:08.190 --> 01:15:10.950 And, and it's what I'm doing today. 01:15:10.950 --> 01:15:13.320 I'm just trying to be of service to others. 01:15:13.320 --> 01:15:15.150 And well, what does that mean? 01:15:15.150 --> 01:15:21.060 It, it means, um, seeing a world larger than just myself. 01:15:21.320 --> 01:15:21.670 Mm. 01:15:22.050 --> 01:15:27.330 And so one of the things that, uh, I've found, not just for me, but for a lot 01:15:27.335 --> 01:15:32.790 of people that I talk to, they make massive improvements in their life. 01:15:33.030 --> 01:15:39.540 Once they realize that they are surrounded by other people that they can interact 01:15:39.540 --> 01:15:43.019 with and become more awesome for it. 01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:47.310 You said that you didn't realize that you had PTSD. 01:15:48.495 --> 01:15:49.875 I think that's interesting. 01:15:49.935 --> 01:15:52.725 Mm-hmm I think that's interesting because I don't think you're 01:15:52.725 --> 01:15:54.375 alone in that sort of an area. 01:15:54.375 --> 01:15:59.085 I think there's a lot of people out there that might have suffer from, uh, 01:15:59.085 --> 01:16:04.065 one level of mental health or another on we're all gonna be at different 01:16:04.065 --> 01:16:05.865 points on the, on the scale here. 01:16:06.495 --> 01:16:12.135 Uh, but for people to understand what it looked like in somebody else might help 01:16:12.135 --> 01:16:17.145 them say, hold on a second, I'm seeing the same things or I'm having the same issues. 01:16:17.175 --> 01:16:22.095 Uh, I think the more that people are able to normalize and talk about these things, 01:16:22.100 --> 01:16:24.455 the more benefit it is for everybody. 01:16:24.735 --> 01:16:28.065 And when you talk about the human commit edition and the commonality in between 01:16:29.145 --> 01:16:33.075 you're right, I've talked to people, who've been diagnosed with PTSD, who 01:16:33.080 --> 01:16:37.545 don't come from a background of, of, uh, serving in police or military or 01:16:37.545 --> 01:16:41.925 fire, what have you, but based on their life experiences and their upbringing 01:16:41.930 --> 01:16:46.545 and their own human condition, they've, they've reached this diagnosis. 01:16:48.195 --> 01:16:49.635 what did it look like in you? 01:16:49.695 --> 01:16:54.255 What, how did you come to realize that you were, uh, dealing with PTSD? 01:16:54.855 --> 01:16:56.355 Mm that's a great question. 01:16:56.360 --> 01:17:03.075 And, you know, I think first of all, I should establish that my path would be 01:17:03.075 --> 01:17:07.155 unique from everyone else's path mm-hmm , and we're also unique in our path, but to 01:17:07.155 --> 01:17:15.105 bring it into more of a common terminology or common framework, I, I suspect that we 01:17:15.105 --> 01:17:17.745 all, as humans struggle from time to time. 01:17:18.015 --> 01:17:23.685 And so it would be a case of, for how long and how deep, uh, as a person struggling. 01:17:23.865 --> 01:17:29.865 And so for myself, I didn't, again, I didn't know the term PTSD. 01:17:30.225 --> 01:17:30.255 Mm. 01:17:30.975 --> 01:17:37.035 And it's, it's kind of a funny, not funny, but kind of funny story um, 01:17:37.905 --> 01:17:45.555 so my sister-in-law Irene, uh, came to Rosalyn here and was staying with us and. 01:17:46.860 --> 01:17:52.680 I came downstairs one morning after, you know, getting up at whatever time. 01:17:52.680 --> 01:17:55.260 And as I came down the stairs, she said, good morning, how are you? 01:17:55.260 --> 01:17:56.160 I said, good. 01:17:56.165 --> 01:17:56.610 How are you? 01:17:56.610 --> 01:17:57.570 And she said, how'd you sleep? 01:17:57.575 --> 01:18:00.330 I said, ah, you know, so, so what do you mean? 01:18:00.570 --> 01:18:03.840 And we kind of entered into that conversation of, so 01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:05.130 why didn't you sleep well? 01:18:05.190 --> 01:18:08.730 And, and I hit her with the classic, uh, just a bit of a nightmare. 01:18:08.820 --> 01:18:09.300 Oh yeah. 01:18:09.420 --> 01:18:10.530 Uh, what kind of a nightmare? 01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:11.550 Ah, no big deal. 01:18:12.030 --> 01:18:16.890 Um, well, you know, how often do you have nightmares every night? 01:18:16.950 --> 01:18:21.120 Mm uh, well, how long for the last couple of decades, right? 01:18:21.125 --> 01:18:24.060 Every night you've had nightmares and it chirp chirp, chirp. 01:18:24.060 --> 01:18:28.140 And so over the course of a five minute long conversation and 01:18:28.760 --> 01:18:32.730 my sister-in-law basically, I'm sure she was set up by my wife 01:18:34.410 --> 01:18:34.590 here. 01:18:34.590 --> 01:18:36.840 It comes out , which is 01:18:36.840 --> 01:18:37.380 a good thing. 01:18:37.380 --> 01:18:37.770 Sure. 01:18:37.770 --> 01:18:38.460 Totally is. 01:18:38.490 --> 01:18:39.300 It's a good thing. 01:18:39.305 --> 01:18:41.190 And, and I wouldn't have it any other way. 01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:43.560 Um, but. 01:18:45.269 --> 01:18:46.620 Through that conversation. 01:18:46.799 --> 01:18:53.519 I thought to myself, yeah, I suppose I've just been getting on with getting on and 01:18:53.519 --> 01:19:04.679 I've found a way to, uh, work with it or, or, um, still be a functioning member of 01:19:04.920 --> 01:19:11.070 society, still doing good things, still executing to the best of my ability and 01:19:11.070 --> 01:19:18.089 et cetera, I've done pretty well, but I gotta step outta myself for a second and 01:19:18.089 --> 01:19:23.969 realize if I can strip out some of these limitations such as not having nightmares 01:19:23.969 --> 01:19:30.450 every freaking night and not having my deep and REM sleep cycles constantly 01:19:30.455 --> 01:19:32.880 compromised and et cetera, cetera. 01:19:33.599 --> 01:19:38.610 Um, if I can work on that, then where would that take me? 01:19:39.059 --> 01:19:42.690 And what I had effectively done is. 01:19:43.620 --> 01:19:49.170 I'd normalized my, my nightmares, uh, to such a degree that 01:19:49.170 --> 01:19:50.820 they'd just become a part of me. 01:19:50.825 --> 01:19:51.220 Right. 01:19:51.560 --> 01:19:57.000 And, and, and it's not that I'd lost perspective on how 01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:58.410 I could do things better. 01:19:58.890 --> 01:19:59.670 Perhaps. 01:19:59.700 --> 01:20:06.120 I just, I, I didn't, maybe I didn't wanna face the fact that I was 01:20:06.120 --> 01:20:10.740 struggling to some degree because I, I was, I'm used to winning, right. 01:20:10.740 --> 01:20:11.790 Of course not losing. 01:20:11.790 --> 01:20:12.060 Right. 01:20:13.200 --> 01:20:15.630 and I chase failure, but I don't want to fail. 01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:15.870 Right. 01:20:15.870 --> 01:20:16.680 You know what I'm saying? 01:20:16.710 --> 01:20:16.800 Right. 01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:24.030 So the dichotomy of trying to live my best life and, and while maybe not wanting 01:20:24.220 --> 01:20:28.800 to face some of the things that would be down and dirty and gritty, which. 01:20:29.435 --> 01:20:35.135 Which is, uh, almost hypocritical since I've based a large chunk of my life 01:20:35.135 --> 01:20:40.535 on pursuing adversity or grittiness, but I maybe I just didn't want to 01:20:40.925 --> 01:20:45.965 deal with, uh, for it's a terrible term, but I'm gonna spit it out 01:20:45.965 --> 01:20:47.345 there because it'll make the point. 01:20:47.350 --> 01:20:52.235 I didn't wanna deal with my own weaknesses, but it wasn't weaknesses. 01:20:52.235 --> 01:20:56.645 It was just the life that I was living in the moment because I hadn't 01:20:56.765 --> 01:21:00.125 processed some of the things that I needed to process in order to. 01:21:00.950 --> 01:21:01.960 More awesome. 01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:04.050 Mm-hmm and you know, what more awesome means getting 01:21:04.440 --> 01:21:05.580 freaking good sleep every night. 01:21:05.580 --> 01:21:06.090 Totally. 01:21:06.090 --> 01:21:07.320 Which I do now. 01:21:07.680 --> 01:21:11.970 And so when, when sh it's not that she challenged me, but when she 01:21:11.970 --> 01:21:16.260 brought up this subject of Sean, you know, that that's not normal. 01:21:16.265 --> 01:21:16.400 Mm. 01:21:16.950 --> 01:21:20.580 Um, while I mentioned it to my family doctor, who I would see like 01:21:20.580 --> 01:21:22.410 once a year, and she said, what? 01:21:22.500 --> 01:21:26.460 And so we went into a conversation that turned into then about. 01:21:27.355 --> 01:21:31.705 Hours worth of conversations back and forth over a number of sessions where 01:21:32.095 --> 01:21:36.895 my awesome family doctor, uh, said, Hey, you know, we should take a look at this. 01:21:36.900 --> 01:21:39.145 We should maybe get it formally diagnosed. 01:21:39.150 --> 01:21:45.565 And, and then I was into, um, uh, B, C O SSI, if you know anything about them. 01:21:45.925 --> 01:21:52.465 Um, and, uh, spoke with a, um, psychiatrist mm-hmm , uh, over the phone, 01:21:52.465 --> 01:21:56.635 uh, on a, because this was during the pandemic at the start of the pandemic. 01:21:56.635 --> 01:22:02.875 And so during that, uh, uh, virtual conversation with her, uh, over 01:22:02.875 --> 01:22:08.065 a number of sessions, she said, Hey, look, uh, straight up PTSD. 01:22:08.665 --> 01:22:09.685 And I was like, whoa. 01:22:09.775 --> 01:22:10.915 So that's what it is. 01:22:10.975 --> 01:22:11.425 Cool. 01:22:12.150 --> 01:22:12.480 Interesting. 01:22:12.480 --> 01:22:15.060 And then my life got better really 01:22:15.420 --> 01:22:15.690 in which 01:22:15.690 --> 01:22:15.990 way? 01:22:16.560 --> 01:22:21.210 Well, because as soon as I had a label for lack of a better term, 01:22:21.480 --> 01:22:23.040 then I could learn more about it. 01:22:23.610 --> 01:22:28.020 Once I started learning, I started figuring out ways to do it better. 01:22:28.210 --> 01:22:33.270 And speaking with my family doctor and, and I'm not a guy who's ever done meds. 01:22:33.390 --> 01:22:36.570 Uh, I don't, I'm not into opioids or anything like that. 01:22:36.570 --> 01:22:36.660 Right. 01:22:36.870 --> 01:22:40.980 In fact, if I get banged up, I don't even like taking a Motrin or an aspirin. 01:22:41.070 --> 01:22:43.770 I just like to, I like to do it naturally. 01:22:43.800 --> 01:22:45.510 I don't, I don't, I've never done steroids. 01:22:45.510 --> 01:22:46.170 I like to do. 01:22:46.350 --> 01:22:48.750 I like to own my own path. 01:22:48.870 --> 01:22:49.200 I agree. 01:22:49.410 --> 01:22:53.880 And so, um, she recommended, uh, a medication to me. 01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:55.380 I was like, forget it, Andrea. 01:22:55.380 --> 01:22:56.640 I'm not a medication guy. 01:22:56.760 --> 01:22:56.850 Right. 01:22:56.850 --> 01:22:57.750 I'll never do that stuff. 01:22:57.750 --> 01:23:02.970 And over the course of, uh, um, a couple of, uh, back and forth, she. 01:23:03.810 --> 01:23:05.220 It's called prin. 01:23:05.670 --> 01:23:07.890 It is as common as aspirin. 01:23:07.890 --> 01:23:12.570 It's simply for high blood pressure, but one of her, uh, one of her friends, 01:23:12.575 --> 01:23:18.630 an associate who'd done a, uh, study on combat veterans in combat nightmares 01:23:18.960 --> 01:23:22.950 had suggested that there could be some positive outcome from, uh, this drug 01:23:22.950 --> 01:23:28.050 called pren and how it might strip out some of the nightmare aspect. 01:23:28.050 --> 01:23:29.640 And I was like, okay. 01:23:29.880 --> 01:23:33.990 Uh, and I bit down on my mouthpiece and I said, I'll give it a try. 01:23:34.290 --> 01:23:34.320 Okay. 01:23:34.325 --> 01:23:36.030 And that's the first me that I'd ever take. 01:23:36.030 --> 01:23:37.890 And, and that's the only me that I take. 01:23:37.950 --> 01:23:38.010 Yeah. 01:23:38.040 --> 01:23:41.190 Um, from, um, big pharmaceutical. 01:23:41.430 --> 01:23:43.320 And here's the thing, man. 01:23:43.320 --> 01:23:45.720 I, it, it's Sean. 01:23:45.810 --> 01:23:46.650 Hey, young Sean. 01:23:46.650 --> 01:23:47.970 You're such a jackass. 01:23:48.560 --> 01:23:53.460 um, here's the thing that the first night, bam gone really that quick. 01:23:53.460 --> 01:23:54.990 I like that. 01:23:55.470 --> 01:23:57.360 And, and, and I've never. 01:23:57.845 --> 01:24:01.175 Really had a nightmare since, uh, maybe one or two, that's it 01:24:01.175 --> 01:24:03.305 over the course of some time now. 01:24:03.755 --> 01:24:09.185 And listen, if I had a, a time machine that I could punch back two 01:24:09.185 --> 01:24:14.555 decades and start taking PreOn guess what I'd be taking really PreOn. 01:24:15.005 --> 01:24:17.165 And so, you know, what does that speak to? 01:24:17.165 --> 01:24:24.394 It speaks to my, um, not just stubbornness, but my stupidity of, of not 01:24:24.394 --> 01:24:30.515 accepting, uh, a little bit of medical intervention when, uh, it could have made 01:24:30.545 --> 01:24:34.505 a humongous change in my quality of life. 01:24:34.805 --> 01:24:38.644 I'd be a better person right now, uh, for it, if I could 01:24:38.644 --> 01:24:41.075 have taken prin two decades ago. 01:24:41.105 --> 01:24:41.465 Wow. 01:24:41.915 --> 01:24:47.644 Um, and, but at the time the person that I was before I took prin. 01:24:48.360 --> 01:24:52.530 Well, that was still me still making the best decisions that I could, right. 01:24:52.530 --> 01:24:57.150 Based on trying to be the best person I could be chasing awesomeness. 01:24:57.210 --> 01:24:57.480 Mm. 01:24:57.750 --> 01:25:01.950 Um, I made those decisions with good faith with myself. 01:25:01.950 --> 01:25:08.850 It wasn't cuz I was trying to, um, uh, I, I, wasn't trying to be my worst self. 01:25:08.850 --> 01:25:09.900 No, totally not. 01:25:10.230 --> 01:25:15.660 But at the time not taking anything made sense to me and at the time not talking 01:25:15.660 --> 01:25:19.500 about what I was struggling with, made sense to me and at the time having 01:25:19.500 --> 01:25:21.810 nightmares every night made sense to me. 01:25:22.200 --> 01:25:29.670 And so I guess one of the points I would be making is I I'm, I 01:25:29.670 --> 01:25:31.320 was I'm I'm a confident guy. 01:25:31.320 --> 01:25:34.500 I'm used to be, I'm used to running my own program. 01:25:34.500 --> 01:25:36.990 I'm I'm used to being independent. 01:25:37.050 --> 01:25:41.430 Uh, I'm used to some level of success in anything that I do. 01:25:42.134 --> 01:25:45.195 I like to run my own program. 01:25:45.254 --> 01:25:50.775 And if I could have just listened over the years to some good advice, predominantly 01:25:50.775 --> 01:25:57.075 from my wife, do who, who by the way is freaking amazing and, and, and saved me 01:25:57.105 --> 01:25:59.865 probably a number of times from my myself. 01:25:59.985 --> 01:26:03.585 Uh, not that I have any suicidal ideation or anything like that, but 01:26:03.855 --> 01:26:06.434 just kind of kept recalibrating me. 01:26:06.464 --> 01:26:10.035 I'd probably be way off the rails, if not for her, maybe. 01:26:10.545 --> 01:26:16.905 Um, but I'm not because she managed to like a little guardian angel, keep 01:26:16.905 --> 01:26:23.355 me on, on, on a good Ford positive path, but listening to my sister-in-law 01:26:23.775 --> 01:26:28.335 the right person at the right time at the right moment in that millisecond, 01:26:28.455 --> 01:26:29.955 my life changed for the better. 01:26:30.045 --> 01:26:30.375 Isn't it 01:26:30.379 --> 01:26:34.245 funny how we can get advice from one person and we take it differently 01:26:34.250 --> 01:26:35.535 than if we got it from somebody else. 01:26:35.535 --> 01:26:36.105 Correct. 01:26:36.165 --> 01:26:37.455 And, and not always. 01:26:38.085 --> 01:26:40.845 and, and by the right person, it could be the wrong person, just 01:26:40.845 --> 01:26:42.285 the right person at that time. 01:26:42.290 --> 01:26:42.635 Right. 01:26:42.915 --> 01:26:47.595 And, and, you know, it could be a person sitting on a bus bench mm. 01:26:47.595 --> 01:26:48.765 Waiting for the bus. 01:26:48.855 --> 01:26:48.945 Mm. 01:26:49.005 --> 01:26:51.135 And they just say the right thing at the right time. 01:26:51.135 --> 01:26:53.985 And you never see that person again, but they change the 01:26:53.990 --> 01:26:56.085 course of your life in a big way. 01:26:56.885 --> 01:26:58.245 If you can be 01:26:58.245 --> 01:26:59.385 open, that's it. 01:26:59.385 --> 01:27:00.835 I think you have to be receptive to it. 01:27:00.835 --> 01:27:01.305 You have to be open. 01:27:01.605 --> 01:27:01.875 Yeah. 01:27:01.915 --> 01:27:02.275 Yeah. 01:27:02.445 --> 01:27:04.245 I can think of two examples in my life. 01:27:04.245 --> 01:27:05.505 Just minor things. 01:27:05.505 --> 01:27:08.925 When I was a kid baseball, keep your eye on the ball, keep your eye, the ball. 01:27:08.925 --> 01:27:09.465 And I'm swinging. 01:27:09.555 --> 01:27:11.295 I can't hit it swinging and I can't hit it. 01:27:11.295 --> 01:27:12.195 Finally, someone says. 01:27:12.930 --> 01:27:15.480 Just watch the ball the entire time it comes through and watch 01:27:15.480 --> 01:27:16.770 it hit your bat and leave. 01:27:17.280 --> 01:27:19.740 Oh, that's what you mean by keep your eye on the ball. 01:27:19.740 --> 01:27:19.830 Right. 01:27:19.860 --> 01:27:21.330 Just a little bit of a reframing. 01:27:21.330 --> 01:27:26.250 Now I can hit the ball or, and I remember I was on a, a youngster, 01:27:26.250 --> 01:27:28.140 I think it was 12, 13 years old. 01:27:28.140 --> 01:27:33.540 I was doing a, a six week course at cadets and we at camp and 01:27:33.660 --> 01:27:34.830 I was dicking around like in 01:27:34.830 --> 01:27:35.250 Vernon. 01:27:35.310 --> 01:27:35.760 In Vernon. 01:27:35.765 --> 01:27:36.030 Yeah. 01:27:36.030 --> 01:27:36.031 Yeah. 01:27:36.036 --> 01:27:37.830 I did, uh, six weeks in Vernon, myself. 01:27:37.920 --> 01:27:38.400 Oh, did you really? 01:27:38.400 --> 01:27:38.550 Yeah. 01:27:38.550 --> 01:27:39.270 Army cadets. 01:27:39.270 --> 01:27:39.600 Yeah. 01:27:39.630 --> 01:27:42.960 So I, I did, um, uh, several years there doing, I think 01:27:42.960 --> 01:27:44.490 this was a, uh, a rifle course. 01:27:44.495 --> 01:27:50.400 First time they had a, um, um, uh, a rifle course set up strictly and I moved from, 01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:53.610 they placed me in alpha company and he said, that's the one you want to be in. 01:27:53.610 --> 01:27:54.360 Cuz you're doing good. 01:27:54.360 --> 01:27:54.570 Right. 01:27:54.570 --> 01:27:56.640 And I know I wanna be in the rifles. 01:27:56.640 --> 01:27:56.820 Right. 01:27:56.825 --> 01:27:58.440 And so then they transferred me to Bravo. 01:27:58.440 --> 01:28:00.300 Like you're not listen, I want to be suit rifles. 01:28:00.300 --> 01:28:04.770 So anyways and there I was, uh, goofing around. 01:28:04.775 --> 01:28:05.640 I wasn't on that course. 01:28:05.640 --> 01:28:06.480 It was a previous one. 01:28:06.480 --> 01:28:07.230 And um, I. 01:28:08.400 --> 01:28:10.860 This guy comes up and he was a, a captain. 01:28:10.860 --> 01:28:12.060 He says, Travis, what are you doing? 01:28:12.870 --> 01:28:16.830 Oh, you know, just doing, doing the typical thing that I do. 01:28:16.830 --> 01:28:17.010 Right. 01:28:17.010 --> 01:28:20.340 And he says, well, if you're doing it, why, why not? 01:28:21.180 --> 01:28:22.680 Wouldn't it suck to do this course. 01:28:22.680 --> 01:28:26.130 It's been six weeks of your life and fail and have to recourse. 01:28:26.250 --> 01:28:27.330 Well, yeah, that totally suck. 01:28:27.930 --> 01:28:31.170 So if you're not gonna fail, why don't you just be the best? 01:28:31.175 --> 01:28:32.610 Right, right, right. 01:28:33.060 --> 01:28:36.510 Or try to, and that's the same thing that everyone in the past 01:28:36.510 --> 01:28:38.880 has said, you know, try your best, do your best, go away to do it. 01:28:38.880 --> 01:28:42.570 But for whatever reason at that time, that was a big life change for me. 01:28:42.600 --> 01:28:42.990 Okay. 01:28:42.995 --> 01:28:47.100 If I'm gonna put my time in and put my energy in, I'll try to be my best at it. 01:28:47.400 --> 01:28:49.810 So, but you have to be receptive and the right person. 01:28:49.810 --> 01:28:50.090 Yeah. 01:28:50.430 --> 01:28:55.530 And, and, and the right person, as I said, could be, could be just a 01:28:55.535 --> 01:28:57.600 random person sitting on a bus bench. 01:28:57.600 --> 01:29:03.120 But I would suggest, I would argue that it's rarely, that. 01:29:03.570 --> 01:29:10.830 And more correctly, it's often a person that you respect mm-hmm . And so one 01:29:10.830 --> 01:29:16.260 of the reasons that I find myself doing, um, social media nowadays, 01:29:16.290 --> 01:29:20.850 trying to do my best in, in a sense, or even this podcast right now is as 01:29:20.855 --> 01:29:25.980 we're talking, I'm trying to do my best just to be authentic and natural. 01:29:25.980 --> 01:29:30.930 But at the same time, I've got this veneer or this overarching 01:29:31.140 --> 01:29:35.310 theme that is constantly running through my, through my peanut. 01:29:35.315 --> 01:29:42.870 And that is, I gotta figure out a way to be able to, um, loosely inspire someone 01:29:42.870 --> 01:29:48.840 else out there to carefully listen to what we're talking about right now. 01:29:48.960 --> 01:29:54.660 And that is, um, not just do your best, but when, when, when it feels right when 01:29:54.660 --> 01:29:58.140 the right person says to you, Hey bro. 01:29:58.755 --> 01:30:01.305 you got this, but I know you got better. 01:30:01.365 --> 01:30:02.955 So go make a mark in the world. 01:30:02.985 --> 01:30:04.965 Mm-hmm however it's explained to you. 01:30:05.475 --> 01:30:09.045 Um, if, if you hear it, then execute against it. 01:30:09.075 --> 01:30:11.925 Don't don't let it blow by like leaves in the wind. 01:30:11.925 --> 01:30:12.615 I mean, yes. 01:30:12.675 --> 01:30:15.075 You, you, when you feel it, yes. 01:30:15.080 --> 01:30:19.095 Reach out and grasp it and hang on for the rest of your life. 01:30:19.125 --> 01:30:19.215 Yes. 01:30:19.215 --> 01:30:23.865 No matter how wild the ride gets, because that's the beautiful, 01:30:23.925 --> 01:30:25.455 uh, that's the beautiful journey. 01:30:25.575 --> 01:30:26.055 Yes. 01:30:26.775 --> 01:30:30.225 I, and I, you know, that's something in my life, just from a, 01:30:30.945 --> 01:30:32.985 a gut level, I get a gut feeling. 01:30:32.990 --> 01:30:33.885 I should do something. 01:30:33.975 --> 01:30:35.355 The second I get that feeling. 01:30:35.955 --> 01:30:36.915 I have to execute on it. 01:30:36.915 --> 01:30:40.845 Mm-hmm I know in the back of my head, if I don't, there's a reason why I had 01:30:40.850 --> 01:30:43.665 that feeling, whether I was conscious of that reason or not conscious of 01:30:43.665 --> 01:30:46.125 the reason I have to now move forward. 01:30:46.275 --> 01:30:46.815 Likewise. 01:30:46.815 --> 01:30:47.715 If somebody comes up. 01:30:48.615 --> 01:30:51.435 It makes a suggestion like you do, I'm gonna have to sit down 01:30:51.435 --> 01:30:55.335 really hard and analyze do I think there's value to that suggestion? 01:30:55.785 --> 01:30:58.845 And if there's a little bit of me that thinks there's value, okay. 01:30:58.875 --> 01:31:00.045 I'm gonna have to execute on that. 01:31:00.825 --> 01:31:01.065 Um, 01:31:01.305 --> 01:31:01.605 yeah. 01:31:01.610 --> 01:31:05.775 You know, you, you you'd said to, to me that when you're in cadet 01:31:05.775 --> 01:31:08.295 camp, someone said, Hey, well, you know, just do your best. 01:31:08.295 --> 01:31:10.455 I recall, uh, no names. 01:31:10.485 --> 01:31:13.935 I won't mention any names or what phase of my mil military career. 01:31:13.935 --> 01:31:15.075 It was, it was quite early. 01:31:15.675 --> 01:31:22.215 Um, but someone was barking at me barking at me, hard, uh, with a lot of F bombs as 01:31:22.215 --> 01:31:24.525 my name was dropped in between F bombs. 01:31:24.530 --> 01:31:24.615 Right. 01:31:24.645 --> 01:31:30.360 And, uh, was explaining to me in no uncertain terms that, um, I needed 01:31:30.360 --> 01:31:34.980 to get my act together and I needed to demonstrate my best effort. 01:31:35.099 --> 01:31:35.280 Mm. 01:31:35.339 --> 01:31:38.639 And if I did then good things would come of it. 01:31:38.639 --> 01:31:41.639 And if I didn't, then I would be off that course. 01:31:41.730 --> 01:31:42.120 Mm. 01:31:42.419 --> 01:31:47.610 And man, it was explained to me in a way that made sense at the moment. 01:31:47.615 --> 01:31:47.889 Right. 01:31:48.089 --> 01:31:51.990 And, and this is what my young military career mind took 01:31:51.995 --> 01:31:54.870 as the simple message, man. 01:31:54.929 --> 01:31:57.959 If I can do my best, maybe I'll be my best. 01:31:58.169 --> 01:31:58.440 Right. 01:31:58.469 --> 01:32:04.379 And, and that led to, you know, a lot of courses that I did, I'd be 01:32:04.379 --> 01:32:10.230 top candidate, uh, simply not because I was better than anyone else. 01:32:10.230 --> 01:32:14.879 It's just that I got it in my head that I had to do my best to be my best. 01:32:14.879 --> 01:32:18.929 And, and generally speaking, that would be the outcome mm-hmm , uh, 01:32:18.929 --> 01:32:23.099 you'd be topping a course or you'd be top through your, whatever. 01:32:23.099 --> 01:32:25.379 I, you know, the numbers aren't that important, but. 01:32:26.550 --> 01:32:30.720 What is important is you would see your best version of yourself 01:32:30.750 --> 01:32:32.820 at the end of that process. 01:32:33.030 --> 01:32:38.340 But that only came about because on the daily, I was executing against the 01:32:38.340 --> 01:32:42.870 task in front of me in the best way that I knew how, and over the course 01:32:42.870 --> 01:32:49.440 of a week, a month, a decade, the, the outcome was you were something 01:32:50.100 --> 01:32:52.320 that you could be proud of, I suppose. 01:32:52.350 --> 01:32:57.480 So had that not happened in your early career there, and let's say 01:32:57.690 --> 01:33:00.300 no one else was able to get that message across in the same way. 01:33:00.300 --> 01:33:02.400 Would you see your life unfolding rather differently? 01:33:02.405 --> 01:33:03.360 Like, was that certainly I think so. 01:33:03.480 --> 01:33:03.660 Yeah. 01:33:03.690 --> 01:33:03.840 Yeah. 01:33:03.870 --> 01:33:04.530 I think so. 01:33:04.535 --> 01:33:08.700 But you know, the, the reality is, and, and to kind of reverse 01:33:08.705 --> 01:33:10.350 engineer your question, right? 01:33:10.620 --> 01:33:14.190 Um, it was inevitable that that moment was gonna happen, right? 01:33:14.580 --> 01:33:19.890 Because I'd put myself into a environment that. 01:33:20.505 --> 01:33:26.085 It was always gonna happen that I was always gonna be faced with someone who 01:33:26.085 --> 01:33:31.815 was going to challenge me in a right way for me to have a right outcome. 01:33:31.905 --> 01:33:32.235 Mm. 01:33:32.415 --> 01:33:40.665 And that, that wouldn't have happened if I would've, I don't know, chosen a different 01:33:40.665 --> 01:33:49.554 career, uh, where I wasn't surrounded by strong, competent, capable leaders. 01:33:50.115 --> 01:33:54.585 Mm-hmm if, if I would've gone down a different route, I wouldn't 01:33:54.585 --> 01:33:56.415 be the person that I am today. 01:33:56.420 --> 01:33:59.745 Mm-hmm , uh, because I wouldn't have been challenged in the same way. 01:33:59.745 --> 01:34:04.995 And I think what is important in that, uh, statement is for any young man or 01:34:04.995 --> 01:34:08.715 woman that's listening to this right now, we're, we're older, I suppose. 01:34:08.715 --> 01:34:08.955 Sure. 01:34:09.165 --> 01:34:15.285 If you're, if you're finding yourself where you're not challenged right now 01:34:15.285 --> 01:34:20.775 by your, uh, immediate surroundings, Maybe it's time to go find some people 01:34:20.775 --> 01:34:24.465 who will challenge you that aren't in your immediate surroundings, and 01:34:24.465 --> 01:34:27.674 I'm not suggesting you gotta start a new hobby or a new martial art, or 01:34:27.674 --> 01:34:30.134 you've gotta move to a new country. 01:34:30.255 --> 01:34:35.715 I'm just saying, start following people who are inspiring right. 01:34:35.764 --> 01:34:41.144 In, in a challenging way where you realize that there's levels to the game and 01:34:41.144 --> 01:34:43.455 that your baseline performance, though. 01:34:43.460 --> 01:34:46.424 Good can be better, right. 01:34:47.655 --> 01:34:48.554 Can always be better. 01:34:48.585 --> 01:34:49.665 It can always be better. 01:34:50.415 --> 01:34:50.865 Funny. 01:34:51.075 --> 01:34:51.525 Yeah. 01:34:51.525 --> 01:34:55.634 Um, you talked about the term PTSD is what you said when, you 01:34:55.634 --> 01:34:57.465 know, the term PTSD came to mind. 01:34:57.945 --> 01:35:02.054 Uh, I think it's one of these things that I've learned talking with others, 01:35:02.535 --> 01:35:04.424 the DSM, what are we on five now? 01:35:04.485 --> 01:35:04.755 I think 01:35:04.759 --> 01:35:06.255 it's five, five point, whatever. 01:35:06.285 --> 01:35:06.615 Right? 01:35:06.735 --> 01:35:09.735 So the term PTSD changes with time. 01:35:09.825 --> 01:35:13.005 It does, uh, and it devolves, as people are trying to get a grasp and they're 01:35:13.005 --> 01:35:14.745 trying to label these things and. 01:35:15.285 --> 01:35:18.435 Some people will clinging to labels in a way that's very productive. 01:35:18.435 --> 01:35:19.905 They say, okay, I can see this. 01:35:19.905 --> 01:35:20.535 This is good. 01:35:20.540 --> 01:35:22.035 And I can put a box around it. 01:35:22.035 --> 01:35:23.625 I can recognize when something's happening. 01:35:23.955 --> 01:35:25.485 I can make adjustments. 01:35:25.545 --> 01:35:28.395 And some people will clinging to labels and say, well, that's just me. 01:35:28.785 --> 01:35:29.895 That's my PTSD. 01:35:29.895 --> 01:35:31.035 And there's nothing I can do. 01:35:31.545 --> 01:35:35.655 I think there's, um, two very different types of personality types there, 01:35:35.955 --> 01:35:38.835 but it's really important to find the one that's gonna bring you to a more 01:35:38.835 --> 01:35:44.985 proactive level of awesomeness as you put, put there and you talked about meds. 01:35:45.045 --> 01:35:50.205 Um, and I know some people said meds, keep keeping me away from 'em. 01:35:50.205 --> 01:35:51.885 Other people say, no, there's a place for them. 01:35:52.455 --> 01:35:56.865 Uh, it's another area where I can see, uh, a lot of stigma. 01:35:56.865 --> 01:35:58.635 I don't want anyone to know that I'm doing meds. 01:35:58.995 --> 01:36:00.465 I don't, whatever I might be. 01:36:00.525 --> 01:36:00.915 Right. 01:36:01.635 --> 01:36:09.915 Um, I'm no doctor, but I would think that, uh, There's a time and place 01:36:09.915 --> 01:36:13.185 for meds, perhaps they shouldn't have the stigma that they do. 01:36:13.185 --> 01:36:17.295 Maybe there's a, when they talk about chemical imbalance, uh, I don't think 01:36:17.295 --> 01:36:21.615 anyone can qualitatively quantitatively say what the proper balance should be, 01:36:22.275 --> 01:36:25.125 but there is places where they can help. 01:36:25.545 --> 01:36:29.445 But I think that people still need to have, it's like going to physio. 01:36:29.445 --> 01:36:29.685 Okay. 01:36:29.685 --> 01:36:31.905 You're seeing the doctor, you got your surgery, you got your meds. 01:36:32.325 --> 01:36:36.225 You still have to have a process that you're working on physically and mentally. 01:36:36.525 --> 01:36:40.185 So you can get to a point of normalization where you don't don't 01:36:40.190 --> 01:36:41.865 have, don't have to have that. 01:36:42.045 --> 01:36:44.425 And normal is, is what, right? 01:36:44.565 --> 01:36:48.345 Like what is normal, if you're happy, if things are clicking in your. 01:36:49.515 --> 01:36:52.905 as abnormal as you might be if you're fitting in with your surroundings 01:36:52.905 --> 01:36:53.895 and others, and you're happy. 01:36:54.015 --> 01:36:54.465 Awesome. 01:36:54.825 --> 01:36:56.025 That then that's normal. 01:36:56.475 --> 01:36:56.775 Agreed. 01:36:57.105 --> 01:36:58.605 So a few, a few different thoughts on it. 01:36:58.605 --> 01:37:00.315 I don't really know about the med one though. 01:37:00.765 --> 01:37:02.595 Uh, I I'm with you, I'm in the same boat. 01:37:02.625 --> 01:37:04.095 Why would I want to do medication? 01:37:04.095 --> 01:37:07.365 Why want to alter my, my, my mind in a certain way, but I, 01:37:07.935 --> 01:37:11.895 there are some that would argue very strongly against me on that 01:37:11.895 --> 01:37:12.105 one. 01:37:12.735 --> 01:37:13.005 Yeah. 01:37:13.005 --> 01:37:18.195 So I'm gonna touch on that in a sec, but I want to go to, uh, a little 01:37:18.195 --> 01:37:21.585 bit of a different area that you raised and rightfully so, and I'm 01:37:21.585 --> 01:37:26.265 so thankful that you brought it up as a point of that conversation. 01:37:26.865 --> 01:37:29.685 And it was initial frustration of mine. 01:37:29.685 --> 01:37:35.625 When, when I started, um, becoming more involved in the, the mental, uh, 01:37:35.655 --> 01:37:41.205 mental health space, mental wellness, uh, in specifically with veterans, uh, 01:37:41.235 --> 01:37:43.215 first responders and law enforcement. 01:37:44.295 --> 01:37:49.424 now I'm not suggesting that this is, uh, widespread or, or it's, it's really 01:37:49.424 --> 01:37:56.775 common, but there is a, there is an element of, uh, that demographic that 01:37:56.775 --> 01:38:02.865 is struggling with mental health, where they have chosen to take on 01:38:02.865 --> 01:38:08.594 that label of, well, I've got PTSD and every day is, is night marriage. 01:38:08.684 --> 01:38:08.775 Right. 01:38:09.165 --> 01:38:14.235 And, and they've they've, and, and I'm not taking anything away from them, however 01:38:14.235 --> 01:38:16.875 long they've been in that, in that space. 01:38:17.174 --> 01:38:22.995 Um, you know, they're, they're doing whatever they're doing, but what I've 01:38:22.995 --> 01:38:29.655 found with some folks is they've, they've latched onto that title of right. 01:38:29.865 --> 01:38:31.094 And, and, and then that becomes 01:38:31.094 --> 01:38:31.485 them. 01:38:31.545 --> 01:38:31.844 Right. 01:38:31.844 --> 01:38:33.045 And it should never become you. 01:38:33.045 --> 01:38:35.115 You are not your correct condition, 01:38:35.120 --> 01:38:35.565 correct? 01:38:35.565 --> 01:38:35.566 Correct. 01:38:35.571 --> 01:38:43.349 And, and further to that point, They now gain some level of 01:38:43.349 --> 01:38:45.630 satisfaction with being that guy. 01:38:45.750 --> 01:38:46.139 Right. 01:38:46.139 --> 01:38:50.370 And it's a sick kind of, it, it's a, it's almost a perverse right. 01:38:50.580 --> 01:38:56.580 Approach to, uh, mental health where they're struggling with their mental 01:38:56.585 --> 01:39:04.050 health, but they're embracing the, the struggle as a good thing, rather 01:39:04.050 --> 01:39:08.190 than something that they need to work through to become a more awesome person. 01:39:08.429 --> 01:39:13.200 In fact, I would go so far as to say that I've spoken with individuals. 01:39:13.200 --> 01:39:20.970 I know of individuals who are continuing to slip backwards because they are not 01:39:20.974 --> 01:39:26.730 just latching onto the negative aspects of their mental health, but they are 01:39:27.300 --> 01:39:28.950 they're, they're, they're embracing it. 01:39:28.950 --> 01:39:30.210 It's it's their identity. 01:39:30.240 --> 01:39:30.420 Right. 01:39:31.110 --> 01:39:36.530 And they, they can't move beyond that negative identity because. 01:39:37.500 --> 01:39:40.650 It makes them feel good to be that person. 01:39:41.190 --> 01:39:46.710 Uh, it makes them feel good to be that guy or girl who is struggling so hard. 01:39:47.250 --> 01:39:51.630 And, um, man, I just, if anyone's in that position, I just wish they 01:39:51.630 --> 01:39:53.640 would listen to what I'm about to say. 01:39:53.800 --> 01:39:54.220 And. 01:39:55.560 --> 01:39:57.090 you can do better than that. 01:39:57.330 --> 01:40:01.650 You there's no need to slide backwards continuously. 01:40:02.100 --> 01:40:08.070 And if you can't see the, the necessity to move forward in a more positive 01:40:08.075 --> 01:40:12.210 manner for yourself, then start seeing it for the team around you. 01:40:12.660 --> 01:40:13.350 That is amazing. 01:40:13.350 --> 01:40:19.230 What, what better way to make yourself better than to try to be better for 01:40:19.230 --> 01:40:25.410 others so that they can see how much improvement you're making on the weekly, 01:40:25.500 --> 01:40:28.860 monthly, yearly decade path forward. 01:40:29.070 --> 01:40:31.500 You could be an inspiration. 01:40:32.325 --> 01:40:37.905 If you just in the next millisecond, flip it all on its head and start focusing on 01:40:37.905 --> 01:40:44.345 being a positive guiding leader, rather than staying immersed in that negative 01:40:44.350 --> 01:40:48.465 quagmire of a negative self identity. 01:40:49.635 --> 01:40:52.755 That's almost like the perfect place to end a podcast too. 01:40:55.455 --> 01:40:56.895 that's that's amazing. 01:40:56.955 --> 01:41:00.525 Um, was there anything that we should be talking about that we haven't? 01:41:00.585 --> 01:41:02.505 I know we, we touched on your book there. 01:41:02.925 --> 01:41:07.215 I'm I'm looking up at my one camera and it's, uh, blinking at me for some reason. 01:41:07.215 --> 01:41:10.035 I'm wondering if it's reading the smaller card instead of the bigger card. 01:41:10.035 --> 01:41:16.185 So I'll, um, yeah, we'll, we'll make an adjustment if we need to Jack. 01:41:16.875 --> 01:41:18.345 Um, oh, there, there is. 01:41:18.525 --> 01:41:19.665 When you, we were. 01:41:20.115 --> 01:41:21.285 Talking about medication. 01:41:21.375 --> 01:41:24.015 There's one thing that I would like to add to that as well. 01:41:24.405 --> 01:41:31.595 Um, I also have a medical prescription for cannabis, so CBD and THC. 01:41:31.600 --> 01:41:35.875 So I'm on medical grade, uh, CBD and THC. 01:41:36.335 --> 01:41:41.415 And what I found for myself is that, uh, medical grade C B 01:41:41.415 --> 01:41:44.025 D makes a huge impact for me. 01:41:44.535 --> 01:41:49.755 Um, the endocannabinoid system, if, if you know anyone out there has never heard 01:41:49.755 --> 01:41:51.915 the term, I'd suggest you look into it. 01:41:52.485 --> 01:41:56.505 Um, there's certainly a lot of positives to cannabis. 01:41:56.525 --> 01:41:56.875 Mm. 01:41:57.135 --> 01:42:03.465 And for me, uh, in respect to, uh, inflammation or, um, you 01:42:03.465 --> 01:42:06.375 know, I, uh, I, I did have some. 01:42:07.110 --> 01:42:10.500 Physical trauma when I was in, on the tubes blowing up and stuff. 01:42:10.530 --> 01:42:15.180 And so I find that, uh, my brain fog is significantly reduced 01:42:15.180 --> 01:42:18.000 because of C, B, D, and THC. 01:42:18.120 --> 01:42:21.690 And, and I'm not like a, I'm not like a hippie that's partying up. 01:42:21.690 --> 01:42:22.710 Like there's no Tamora. 01:42:22.715 --> 01:42:24.300 I use it specifically. 01:42:24.630 --> 01:42:30.990 And, and with a science minded approach towards, uh, CBD and THC, uh, uh, on 01:42:30.990 --> 01:42:36.330 a minimum basis for a maximum effect throughout my day throughout my life. 01:42:36.330 --> 01:42:42.390 And so if, if someone out there is considering ways to either improve 01:42:42.395 --> 01:42:46.230 their mental health space or mitigate some of the negative thoughts that 01:42:46.420 --> 01:42:50.640 they're having, that is an option for, uh, interesting, a certain demographic. 01:42:51.330 --> 01:42:57.570 I know another tier one fellow who went over to Costa Rica to further explore, um, 01:42:58.020 --> 01:43:03.960 psilocybin and, and, and different effects on, uh, of the mushrooms and stuff for 01:43:03.960 --> 01:43:10.665 the, for the use of, uh, Uh, PTSD mm-hmm and, um, actually gave me a book to, uh, 01:43:10.725 --> 01:43:14.565 to read through and educate myself, which I think we mentioned before the podcast, 01:43:14.565 --> 01:43:17.985 I got about 30 books on the go right now, all of them at different places. 01:43:17.985 --> 01:43:21.915 Some might start in the middle, some at the beginning, I'm somewhere in that book. 01:43:21.915 --> 01:43:25.365 So if he's listening I'm, I am making my way through that, but, uh, 01:43:25.425 --> 01:43:28.365 well there, so I, I too believe in that as well. 01:43:28.365 --> 01:43:31.965 And, and I've been down to south America for a number of variety 01:43:31.965 --> 01:43:33.405 of reasons, work and pleasure. 01:43:33.405 --> 01:43:39.045 And, and while I was down there, I, I got involved in, in a, uh, experience, uh, 01:43:39.045 --> 01:43:45.045 with iowaska and San Pedro cactus, uh, that was quite beneficial, uh, a unplanned 01:43:45.045 --> 01:43:50.175 thing and probably less structured than it should have been but, uh, you know, 01:43:50.205 --> 01:43:52.135 that's an entirely different story sure. 01:43:52.515 --> 01:43:58.545 Itself, but in respect to psilocybin, um, I have, um, I won't say 01:43:58.545 --> 01:44:01.575 experimented, but I have considered it. 01:44:02.070 --> 01:44:05.310 Uh, in a, in a number of ways over a period of time. 01:44:05.310 --> 01:44:10.290 And so I have microdosed psilocybin over the last. 01:44:10.695 --> 01:44:14.115 Nearly 20 years, certainly last 15 years, for sure. 01:44:14.175 --> 01:44:14.235 Yeah. 01:44:14.235 --> 01:44:14.804 It's been helpful. 01:44:14.804 --> 01:44:15.945 Uh, it's very helpful. 01:44:16.665 --> 01:44:20.505 Interesting by, by microdosing, if anyone's listening out there, uh, I 01:44:20.510 --> 01:44:26.594 mean like 0.2 grams of, uh, psilocybin scaled out on a very precise measurement. 01:44:26.594 --> 01:44:30.285 I'm I'm not the kind of guy who throws caution to the wind when 01:44:30.285 --> 01:44:31.844 it comes to these kind of things. 01:44:31.844 --> 01:44:31.934 Right. 01:44:32.745 --> 01:44:36.495 Um, I, I think that they're for the right person at the right 01:44:36.495 --> 01:44:38.565 time under the right conditions. 01:44:38.565 --> 01:44:41.655 I think there's benefits to plant medicine, for sure. 01:44:41.894 --> 01:44:42.675 That's interesting. 01:44:42.679 --> 01:44:46.545 Cause I always thought that the idea behind that. 01:44:47.090 --> 01:44:51.320 I, I remember reading an article and they said if a person was knocked unconscious 01:44:51.410 --> 01:44:56.030 and they were given the psilocybin and then they're woken up afterwards, would 01:44:56.035 --> 01:45:01.970 they have the same positive effects that they're finding in these studies, if 01:45:01.970 --> 01:45:03.530 they didn't actually experience anything? 01:45:04.010 --> 01:45:05.060 And the answer was no. 01:45:05.240 --> 01:45:07.010 And that these people actually needed. 01:45:07.490 --> 01:45:08.960 Was it the set and the setting? 01:45:08.960 --> 01:45:09.650 I think they right. 01:45:09.650 --> 01:45:10.450 Set setting. 01:45:10.490 --> 01:45:10.700 Yeah. 01:45:10.790 --> 01:45:14.030 And they needed to have that experience in order to have 01:45:14.030 --> 01:45:15.710 the positive effects later on. 01:45:16.250 --> 01:45:16.930 Um, yeah. 01:45:16.935 --> 01:45:17.000 Yeah. 01:45:17.000 --> 01:45:18.500 I, I, I, I think you're right. 01:45:18.500 --> 01:45:21.260 It you're, and you're right to raise the point. 01:45:21.265 --> 01:45:25.550 I don't believe it's, you cannot just simply Bumble into this 01:45:25.550 --> 01:45:26.960 thing and, and flip a coin. 01:45:26.960 --> 01:45:30.380 Now it's heads, then I'm gonna go with this dose instead of that dose. 01:45:30.380 --> 01:45:33.080 And it's gonna happen right now instead of plan tomorrow. 01:45:34.140 --> 01:45:38.340 There it's something that should be treated with due caution. 01:45:38.520 --> 01:45:38.730 Mm. 01:45:38.790 --> 01:45:44.220 Uh, but it should be considered as a positive, rather than a negative. 01:45:44.460 --> 01:45:49.530 And to think of it as a positive, you have to consider it more fully rather than 01:45:49.530 --> 01:45:51.150 just, uh, well, let's see what happens. 01:45:54.160 --> 01:45:54.830 oh man. 01:45:55.740 --> 01:45:56.230 Okay. 01:45:56.720 --> 01:45:59.684 Um, Maybe your book. 01:45:59.775 --> 01:46:01.304 Did you want to touch on that a little bit? 01:46:01.634 --> 01:46:01.875 Sure. 01:46:01.875 --> 01:46:02.625 I can touch on it. 01:46:02.625 --> 01:46:10.575 And, and I will start by saying, first of all, that the book kind of came about, 01:46:10.665 --> 01:46:17.684 um, unexpectedly and it was because S had come into Rosalind so that we 01:46:17.684 --> 01:46:19.394 could meet and hang out a little bit. 01:46:19.394 --> 01:46:23.325 And through a process, we ended up recording for over 01:46:23.325 --> 01:46:24.915 the course of seven days. 01:46:25.365 --> 01:46:30.014 Uh, uh, once in the morning, once in the afternoon, we recorded 25 hours of 01:46:30.014 --> 01:46:34.215 audio on a number of subjects leadership and this, that, and the other thing. 01:46:34.344 --> 01:46:37.335 And, uh, SEP says there's a lot of gold in. 01:46:38.520 --> 01:46:42.570 and, and I mean, anything that sub's involved in is gonna have gems. 01:46:42.570 --> 01:46:46.830 So , um, and at, at the end of it, I said, so what do we have here? 01:46:46.835 --> 01:46:50.160 Because I wasn't really clear on what we were doing and per se mm. 01:46:50.165 --> 01:46:52.560 And he said, this is a book that you're looking at. 01:46:52.620 --> 01:46:54.000 And I said, okay, that's cool. 01:46:54.390 --> 01:47:01.560 Um, and so since then, uh, there has been a, uh, transcriber involved and 01:47:01.560 --> 01:47:03.690 there has been an editor involved. 01:47:03.690 --> 01:47:07.710 And as you know, the process takes some time. 01:47:07.770 --> 01:47:08.010 It does. 01:47:08.010 --> 01:47:08.070 Yeah. 01:47:08.130 --> 01:47:11.190 I've, I've done a book myself in the past and an unrelated 01:47:11.190 --> 01:47:13.530 field, which, uh, is important. 01:47:13.590 --> 01:47:17.610 And so the, the process takes time. 01:47:17.880 --> 01:47:19.770 Here's where I'm at with it right now. 01:47:19.770 --> 01:47:22.860 And, and perhaps said is at the same point as well. 01:47:22.890 --> 01:47:25.830 We, we were gonna talk this week, but we haven't got around to it 01:47:25.835 --> 01:47:27.000 since I came back from Europe. 01:47:27.600 --> 01:47:35.520 Um, In my opinion, whether it turns into a book or whether it turns into 01:47:35.550 --> 01:47:42.600 a cartoon series is, uh, is less important to me than the process. 01:47:42.780 --> 01:47:47.730 And so those 25 hours of audio recorded material were 01:47:47.730 --> 01:47:49.830 extremely important for seven. 01:47:49.830 --> 01:47:55.110 I, to not only gain a, an extremely strong relationship just as you 01:47:55.110 --> 01:47:58.380 and I are doing right now, when we first started recording this. 01:47:58.380 --> 01:48:02.340 And now as we come towards the end of it, our relationship is better because 01:48:02.340 --> 01:48:03.990 we've shared some moments together. 01:48:03.990 --> 01:48:05.700 We've in real time. 01:48:05.850 --> 01:48:05.940 Yes. 01:48:05.940 --> 01:48:06.960 Got to know each other. 01:48:06.960 --> 01:48:07.050 Yes. 01:48:07.200 --> 01:48:10.590 Well that's what seven Andi did over those 25 hours of recorded material. 01:48:10.890 --> 01:48:13.410 I, I think of him as a brother right now. 01:48:13.410 --> 01:48:13.470 Yeah. 01:48:13.470 --> 01:48:14.310 From another mother. 01:48:14.315 --> 01:48:14.880 For sure. 01:48:14.940 --> 01:48:15.870 He's an awesome dude. 01:48:16.080 --> 01:48:17.340 He is, but I wouldn't have thought. 01:48:18.255 --> 01:48:22.665 Uh, pre 25 hours of, of, of that recorded week. 01:48:22.995 --> 01:48:26.715 And so, uh, I'll go to the ends of the earth for that guy. 01:48:27.195 --> 01:48:31.425 And, but I couldn't have said that before we shared all of that time together. 01:48:31.575 --> 01:48:35.385 So what, what will it turn into it's anyone's guess? 01:48:35.445 --> 01:48:41.565 But what it's already achieved for me is, is a home run that's for sure. 01:48:41.895 --> 01:48:47.985 And so perhaps it will be leaked audio in conjunction with some visuals. 01:48:48.045 --> 01:48:51.315 Uh, we'll see where it all goes again. 01:48:51.315 --> 01:48:52.905 It's unimportant to me where it goes. 01:48:52.905 --> 01:48:56.205 I know a lot of people are, are really tugging on my sleeve 01:48:56.205 --> 01:48:57.105 and saying, when's the book. 01:48:57.105 --> 01:48:57.915 I gotta read the book. 01:48:57.920 --> 01:48:59.325 The book's gonna be awesome, et cetera. 01:48:59.415 --> 01:49:05.055 And perhaps, and I'm not sure when, but if it doesn't turn into a book, 01:49:05.625 --> 01:49:12.825 uh, make, make no mistake, EV it was worth every minute and good will come of 01:49:12.825 --> 01:49:13.065 it. 01:49:13.305 --> 01:49:16.905 I really like that approach, not just to a project or making a book. 01:49:17.669 --> 01:49:18.690 An approach to life. 01:49:18.780 --> 01:49:19.049 Yeah, 01:49:19.049 --> 01:49:19.650 for sure. 01:49:19.710 --> 01:49:24.089 And, and by the way, one of my central themes throughout my life, 01:49:24.629 --> 01:49:29.160 uh, actually since, um, I joined the military is turning things into 01:49:29.250 --> 01:49:31.589 tenure programs or tenure projects. 01:49:31.589 --> 01:49:37.919 And when I turned 52, I started a tenure project called BJ J and, 01:49:37.919 --> 01:49:39.480 uh, I'd been doing martial arts. 01:49:39.925 --> 01:49:43.555 Till that point for about, I think 32 ish years or something like that. 01:49:44.035 --> 01:49:49.465 And, uh, so yeah, 32 years, I'm now plus 40 years of, uh, martial arts. 01:49:49.585 --> 01:49:49.645 Wow. 01:49:49.825 --> 01:49:54.475 But when I turned 52 that week, I tied on a white belt in BJ because 01:49:54.475 --> 01:49:56.275 I was gonna start a new project. 01:49:56.305 --> 01:49:59.185 And how I frame things is it's a 10 year project. 01:49:59.275 --> 01:50:00.475 I'll see where this goes. 01:50:00.475 --> 01:50:01.825 I'll give it my best effort. 01:50:02.155 --> 01:50:05.095 And at the end of those 10 years, I'll, I'll reassess. 01:50:05.305 --> 01:50:06.595 Now I know how it's gonna go. 01:50:06.595 --> 01:50:08.515 Mm-hmm as it does with all of my projects. 01:50:08.515 --> 01:50:08.605 Yep. 01:50:08.875 --> 01:50:14.125 I'm 12, I'm 15, I'm 18 years into it at that point because man, if you put 01:50:14.125 --> 01:50:18.265 yourself into something, if you commit to something somewhere along the way, you'll 01:50:18.265 --> 01:50:23.665 realize the value of commitment and you'll realize why you committed to that thing. 01:50:23.665 --> 01:50:25.675 And then the rest takes care of itself. 01:50:26.685 --> 01:50:27.165 Sean. 01:50:27.165 --> 01:50:30.645 I think that's a great way to wrap it up before this light keeps blinking. 01:50:30.645 --> 01:50:32.385 I'm sure it's, it's getting faster and faster. 01:50:32.385 --> 01:50:33.285 It must mean something. 01:50:33.315 --> 01:50:33.795 It does. 01:50:34.845 --> 01:50:37.665 it means we're we're reaching peak awesomeness peak. 01:50:37.665 --> 01:50:38.085 Awesome. 01:50:38.685 --> 01:50:40.485 Thank you very much for opening up your home. 01:50:40.485 --> 01:50:42.675 Thank you so much for being on the silver core podcast. 01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:44.265 I really had a great time chatting with you. 01:50:44.535 --> 01:50:45.525 It was all my pleasure. 01:50:45.525 --> 01:50:45.825 Believe.