1 00:00:00,034 --> 00:00:06,859 There is a saying I like to use a lot and that saying is this, read the room. Well it appears 2 00:00:06,899 --> 00:00:11,923 DraftKings did just that after a series of earnings calls in which no competitors came close to 3 00:00:11,983 --> 00:00:17,388 suggesting that they too might be implementing a surcharge on betters in high tax states. 4 00:00:17,828 --> 00:00:21,491 We're going to talk about DraftKings change of heart and the flutter earnings call that 5 00:00:21,531 --> 00:00:26,991 preceded it on today's episode of iGaming Daily. iGaming Daily is presented by OptiMove, the 6 00:00:27,011 --> 00:00:31,596 number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market. If you're not solving your marketing 7 00:00:31,636 --> 00:00:37,101 problems with OptiMove, you still got a time, plenty of time really to get in on it. You 8 00:00:37,121 --> 00:00:42,425 can claim a first free month too, optimove.com forward slash SBC. The link for that is in 9 00:00:42,445 --> 00:00:47,290 the description below. And with that out of the way, I am Jessica Wellman, editor of SBC 10 00:00:47,330 --> 00:00:53,250 Americas, joined by media manager Charlie Horner. Charlie, I- We had Steve Radegon to talk about 11 00:00:53,290 --> 00:00:58,653 the DraftKings surcharges last week, but it's funny the way the world works because you thought 12 00:00:58,693 --> 00:01:02,636 you weren't going to get to bang on it like the rest of us, but here is your turn. What 13 00:01:02,676 --> 00:01:07,698 was your thought on these surcharges when you first saw them? Yeah, well, when I first heard 14 00:01:07,718 --> 00:01:16,023 about this, I thought you can't do that, surely? I mean, it was, yeah, pretty egregious from 15 00:01:16,083 --> 00:01:23,326 DraftKings to come out and say, yeah, essentially, the players can pay part of our tax bill for 16 00:01:23,406 --> 00:01:30,468 us. I understand that businesses have to, or well, choose to in some cases pass on costs 17 00:01:31,128 --> 00:01:40,751 to their customers. That's generally the case in business, but this surcharge was really 18 00:01:40,791 --> 00:01:47,493 controversial and I don't think it was ever going to land properly. And my favourite thing 19 00:01:47,513 --> 00:01:55,992 about it was Jason Robbins' quote. when he said, yeah, this is our calculation, this is what 20 00:01:56,012 --> 00:02:00,994 we've worked out, and I'm fairly sure that all of our competitors will quickly follow suit 21 00:02:01,054 --> 00:02:07,337 and join us in doing this. And well, it hasn't exactly worked out that way. Yeah, to give 22 00:02:07,357 --> 00:02:11,559 you the exact words, because I love this one, I think every company has to do what's best 23 00:02:11,579 --> 00:02:16,461 for their own business. I think we believe this is what's best for us and I would imagine that, 24 00:02:16,481 --> 00:02:21,798 you know... If that's our calculus, then others would come to the same conclusion. Hint, hint, 25 00:02:21,838 --> 00:02:27,885 nod, nudge, nudge. And then everybody else was like, let me get as far away from you as humanly 26 00:02:28,505 --> 00:02:34,011 possible. You know, we talked about it last week. I highly encourage people to listen to 27 00:02:34,271 --> 00:02:38,956 Steve Ruddock and I kind of break this down if you want some of the details on why this 28 00:02:38,996 --> 00:02:45,032 was so controversial. And this week, I was seeing a lot of people kind of asking procedurally 29 00:02:45,092 --> 00:02:50,535 if they're even allowed to do this in some of the states that they're in. Sometime, like, 30 00:02:50,575 --> 00:02:54,297 would it be considered a change in house rules? Would it be something that you have to get 31 00:02:54,857 --> 00:03:00,120 regulatory approval on before you could even implement? I think the idea, I don't know if 32 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,003 this has made it across the pond as much, but here, every business, it seems like there's 33 00:03:05,023 --> 00:03:09,225 a surcharge for everything. Like in COVID, we started seeing in a restaurant that is just 34 00:03:09,245 --> 00:03:15,611 like, I mean, it was literally just like a foods expensive surcharge. It's hard to get food, 35 00:03:15,651 --> 00:03:23,193 so you have to pay more. Sorry. You know, surcharge pricing in ride shares and that sort of thing. 36 00:03:23,253 --> 00:03:28,054 Is that common over there at all or no? We have dynamic pricing in things like, yeah, taxes 37 00:03:28,074 --> 00:03:34,096 and Ubers and that kind of thing. But but generally, I don't think there's as much of a surcharge 38 00:03:34,136 --> 00:03:41,119 culture over here as there is in the US. I mean, I can't imagine this this. surcharge Malaki 39 00:03:41,139 --> 00:03:48,865 and sports books ever being accepted in the UK. Um, so yeah. Given y'all's reactions to 40 00:03:48,945 --> 00:03:53,989 resort fees and hotel deposits, whenever you come over here for events, no, I don't think 41 00:03:54,009 --> 00:04:00,054 it would happen. Well, you know, it didn't go over well here. So they announced on August 42 00:04:00,374 --> 00:04:07,400 2nd, that this was going to be what they were going to do in Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, 43 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:16,557 and Vermont starting first and on August 13th they sent out this statement. We always listen 44 00:04:16,597 --> 00:04:20,860 to our customers and after hearing their feedback, we have decided not to move forward with the 45 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,502 gaming tax surcharge. We are always committed to delivering the best value in the industry 46 00:04:25,562 --> 00:04:31,565 to our loyal customers, except when our CEO gets on earnings calls and is just basically 47 00:04:31,605 --> 00:04:35,287 like, yeah, I think they're going to hate it and I think they're going to complain, but 48 00:04:35,347 --> 00:04:41,114 I don't think they're going to change who they bet with. So we're going with it. Yes, it's 49 00:04:41,354 --> 00:04:47,997 so egregious the way that... Well, I didn't listen to his exact comments on the earnings 50 00:04:48,017 --> 00:04:55,541 call, but the way that you're framing it... Yeah, I'm granted very much indulging. But 51 00:04:55,581 --> 00:05:01,823 I have read the quotes and they do assume that people will just not like it, but still bet 52 00:05:01,843 --> 00:05:07,406 with DraftKings anyway because, well, our brand is good, our product is great, but... Clearly 53 00:05:07,746 --> 00:05:14,389 the will of the people is to not go through with this and DraftKings has had to just perform 54 00:05:14,429 --> 00:05:21,211 a dramatic U-turn because this, yeah, the backlash has been so loud. Yeah, people may gripe about 55 00:05:21,272 --> 00:05:27,234 it but I don't really see behaviour change because of it was Robin's prediction and that was not 56 00:05:27,274 --> 00:05:35,337 the case. So huge outcry on social media that, you know, this is terrible, we hate this and- 57 00:05:36,410 --> 00:05:41,612 I'll be honest, like he said the quiet part out loud, do I think people are too lazy to 58 00:05:41,732 --> 00:05:47,815 actually switch and they're just going to complain? Yeah, but the goodwill was not there. I think 59 00:05:48,055 --> 00:05:55,859 more than the customers saying they didn't like this, the fact that earnings call after earnings 60 00:05:55,879 --> 00:06:01,982 call happened, everyone was asked about the surcharge and the answer was not. Seems like 61 00:06:02,002 --> 00:06:07,546 an interesting idea. We're going to keep our thumb on it. It was nope, no thank you. Not 62 00:06:07,606 --> 00:06:13,570 doing, not getting near that one. We're good. Yeah. I mean, it has been one of the first 63 00:06:13,610 --> 00:06:21,916 questions that's been asked of all of the big PLC CEOs in the last few weeks. And I guess 64 00:06:22,637 --> 00:06:28,721 Robin's calculation was that everyone would just follow suit. And if all the competitors 65 00:06:28,761 --> 00:06:34,115 do it, then players are going to have to accept it because that's the way that all the regulated 66 00:06:34,815 --> 00:06:43,397 sports books are going. I think the advantage that all of the other CEOs have had is that 67 00:06:43,417 --> 00:06:48,819 they've been able to see the public reaction on social media to DraftKings decision and 68 00:06:50,059 --> 00:06:55,160 they have read the room and swiftly decided that it's not for them. 69 00:06:59,842 --> 00:07:04,465 Robbins and DraftKings into the corner, really. Yeah, you know, the timing of this was interesting 70 00:07:04,505 --> 00:07:12,250 because it was basically an hour after the Flutter earnings call ended. And, you know, Rush Street 71 00:07:12,290 --> 00:07:18,314 came out and very much was like, we're not doing this, we're never doing this. I think Penn 72 00:07:18,575 --> 00:07:23,458 and Flutter were both a little more like, it's not really something we're thinking about doing, 73 00:07:23,498 --> 00:07:31,418 but you never know. There was a piece of me. maybe like 3% when the DraftKings announcement 74 00:07:31,438 --> 00:07:37,980 came out that was just like, did they all plan this? And DraftKings was like, we'll fall on 75 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,882 the sword and go first. You know, then when Flutter, you've got a couple weeks and you 76 00:07:42,902 --> 00:07:47,763 can say that you're thinking about it or whatever, you don't want it to look like you all agreed 77 00:07:47,803 --> 00:07:51,644 to do it at the same time or, you know, states are going to get mad. But there was a piece 78 00:07:51,684 --> 00:07:58,555 of me that wondered if they were all kind of in on it together. the conspiracy theorist 79 00:07:58,615 --> 00:08:02,678 in me, right? I don't know if that was a thought that crossed your mind at all. Will Barron 80 00:08:02,718 --> 00:08:10,443 Well, no, I mean, I'm going to put my tinfoil hat on. I can understand it. And I understand 81 00:08:10,523 --> 00:08:17,048 why they might have those kinds of conversations as well because, and we'll discuss it even 82 00:08:17,108 --> 00:08:25,226 more in the second half of the show, you know, these tax rates in these states are high. in 83 00:08:25,406 --> 00:08:30,069 certain states like Illinois, they're getting higher. Sportsbooks didn't sign up for those 84 00:08:30,729 --> 00:08:34,911 high tax rates in those states and they feel like they have to do something to overcome 85 00:08:35,412 --> 00:08:42,919 those increasing costs and taxes. again, I think it all comes back to your opening line, Jess, 86 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,964 and you have to read the room on this one and they've got to do things in a way that doesn't 87 00:08:49,064 --> 00:08:57,010 impact the customer really, because well, it's clear that they don't want to be impacted by 88 00:08:57,150 --> 00:09:04,756 this, especially when it's not fair compared to players in other states. So if you're in, 89 00:09:05,697 --> 00:09:11,708 I don't know, if you're in... North Carolina and the tax rates lower, why are you getting 90 00:09:12,149 --> 00:09:20,094 a surcharge or worse pricing than those in New York or Illinois? Yeah, I don't know, you know, 91 00:09:20,114 --> 00:09:25,898 there's some speculation that this is like a grassroots effort to get betters to stand up 92 00:09:25,938 --> 00:09:34,944 and be like, DraftKings should pay less taxes, which is just a sell. I will kind of say, it's 93 00:09:35,085 --> 00:09:42,327 not that these... What we saw from these earnings calls collectively in these states where it 94 00:09:42,447 --> 00:09:50,189 is a very high tax rate up to now, you have not seen too much disparity in how betters 95 00:09:50,269 --> 00:09:57,832 are treated state to state. What we have heard is in most of these other companies have concluded 96 00:09:57,872 --> 00:10:01,813 that they're going to have to curb promo spend in these states and they're going to have to 97 00:10:01,833 --> 00:10:07,517 curb marketing spend in these states. So you may see slightly less generous offers in New 98 00:10:07,557 --> 00:10:13,762 York, Pennsylvania, Illinois. I think especially given that Pennsylvania and Illinois are a 99 00:10:13,782 --> 00:10:15,703 little more on the mature side, 100 00:10:18,906 --> 00:10:23,750 it's understandable that they would potentially curb back spending. Rush Street said they've 101 00:10:23,790 --> 00:10:30,876 cut back extensively on affiliates and that they're going to focus on retention and other 102 00:10:30,916 --> 00:10:36,815 ways of acquiring customers. It won't be the overt surcharge and I don't think it's one, 103 00:10:37,035 --> 00:10:40,796 you know, if you've already signed up, you've gotten your offer. You know, will you be getting 104 00:10:40,836 --> 00:10:47,379 as many offers in the future as your friends in Kentucky or Indiana or wherever? Probably 105 00:10:47,419 --> 00:10:53,301 not. So there will be some impact. I think we have finally reached the point where you're 106 00:10:53,321 --> 00:10:54,622 going to see some differences. 107 00:11:04,374 --> 00:11:10,677 than the surcharge because you're not penalising your players, you're just being less generous 108 00:11:10,937 --> 00:11:16,559 is the way that you can package it and like you said some of these states are getting reaching 109 00:11:16,599 --> 00:11:25,944 maturity so naturally you would reduce the number or amount of promotions that you're using in 110 00:11:25,984 --> 00:11:31,635 those jurisdictions anyway so I think that's a natural of progression of the industry but 111 00:11:31,675 --> 00:11:37,519 to add a surcharge is yeah, I can understand why there's so much backlash. And only if you 112 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:42,883 win. If you keep losing, we'll cover it. If you win, that's when we're gonna need you to 113 00:11:43,823 --> 00:11:49,568 contribute a little more. Now, I feel like we have done actually, I don't think I feel, I 114 00:11:49,588 --> 00:11:57,133 think factually we have only talked about problems for DraftKings the last three weeks of the 115 00:11:57,153 --> 00:12:03,604 pod. because we had Rainmakers in that lawsuit as well. It has been a rough month for them, 116 00:12:03,745 --> 00:12:11,149 but let's just talk kind of optics for a second. Is all of this stuff internal industry optics, 117 00:12:11,369 --> 00:12:20,114 or do you think this stuff seeped into the mainstream enough that this might have an impact on, you 118 00:12:20,134 --> 00:12:25,117 know, DraftKings and its market share? To be honest, I can't see the Rainmakers lawsuit 119 00:12:25,177 --> 00:12:32,714 and the closure of that. sort of division being that much of a difference maker for the average 120 00:12:32,734 --> 00:12:39,520 player. But I think the surcharge probably has, especially amongst players in those states 121 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:45,665 that would have been impacted if they had gone through with it in January. Because from a 122 00:12:45,725 --> 00:12:50,809 player's perspective, you've already had the blow of, oh well this is what DraftKings thinks 123 00:12:50,849 --> 00:12:59,563 of me and I should be paying more than others. that might have an impact. Will it have a genuine 124 00:12:59,603 --> 00:13:06,467 material impact on market share? I'm not sure. I don't think that the players will think, 125 00:13:06,527 --> 00:13:10,869 well, they might have added a surcharge onto my winnings, so I'm going to close my DraftKings 126 00:13:10,889 --> 00:13:15,932 account and go to ESPN Bet or FanJewel. I'm not really sure, but I think optically they 127 00:13:15,952 --> 00:13:25,083 have taken a little bit of a hit. Is their reputation as a company maybe a little less shiny? Sure. 128 00:13:25,143 --> 00:13:30,505 Although I will say based on what I've seen on social media, the payouts on Rainmaker's 129 00:13:30,885 --> 00:13:35,286 stuff was expected to be pennies on the dollar, but I didn't see people really griping so it 130 00:13:35,326 --> 00:13:41,148 seems like it was reasonable enough, which is a good thing. They did walk back this decision, 131 00:13:41,248 --> 00:13:46,369 which is a good thing. So, it's not like they're just completely slapping customers in the face 132 00:13:46,429 --> 00:13:51,252 all the time. It does seem like. They are reading the room. They just have to be in the room 133 00:13:51,272 --> 00:13:56,036 a lot longer than the rest of us before they can get the vibe. All right. Now that we've 134 00:13:56,076 --> 00:13:59,779 talked about DraftKings, we're going to take a quick break, come back and talk about DraftKings' 135 00:13:59,819 --> 00:14:05,243 biggest competitor and their Q2 earnings call. Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Now, I mentioned 136 00:14:05,283 --> 00:14:13,278 before that the timing of the DraftKings surcharge followed the Flutter Q2 earnings call. Things 137 00:14:13,318 --> 00:14:17,160 were large. I mean, I'm not going to run down numbers. You guys know things were largely 138 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:23,544 very positive for Flutter in this past quarter. They have moved over to the New York Times 139 00:14:23,624 --> 00:14:31,528 or the New York Stock Exchange and really focused on, you know, the North American and in particular, 140 00:14:31,668 --> 00:14:40,013 US market. The one number I will highlight, they said that in terms of market share, their 141 00:14:40,726 --> 00:14:48,111 National GGR for sports betting market share is 47%. They've got a 25% share of online casino. 142 00:14:48,731 --> 00:14:53,774 And in North Carolina, where we haven't heard operator data, they're saying they've got 59% 143 00:14:53,814 --> 00:14:59,478 of the market there. So a good year, a good quarter up to guidance. The thing that really 144 00:14:59,818 --> 00:15:05,282 attracted my attention though, was a comment by CEO Peter Jackson about Illinois. The Illinois 145 00:15:05,302 --> 00:15:10,125 structure, Charlie, I know we talked about that they double or they increase the tax rate. 146 00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:16,674 What they also did was divide it into tiers. And we saw in the first earnings report out 147 00:15:16,734 --> 00:15:23,218 of Illinois since this implementation, how that works, where if you fall into a certain range 148 00:15:23,538 --> 00:15:28,421 of revenue, you get taxed at a higher rate. If you don't hit a certain range, you get taxed 149 00:15:28,461 --> 00:15:35,974 at a lower rate. And Peter Jackson just straight up called it wrong. I- I think that introducing 150 00:15:35,994 --> 00:15:40,416 a graduated tax system that punishes those who have invested the most to grow their businesses 151 00:15:40,456 --> 00:15:46,059 wrong. I think it will drive customers to offshore operators or potentially to onshore operators 152 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:51,602 who are offering unregulated and untaxed parlay's under the guise of sweepstakes." There's a 153 00:15:51,642 --> 00:15:57,866 whole lot of haterade in that sentence. So let's break it down. What did you make of this comment? 154 00:15:58,366 --> 00:16:01,388 I thought it was very, very candid, very open. 155 00:16:05,302 --> 00:16:12,185 just listening to the call the way he said it as well. You know, he slowed down and broke 156 00:16:12,205 --> 00:16:17,828 down the question into multiple parts and really focused on Illinois as something that he was 157 00:16:17,909 --> 00:16:24,292 clearly agitated about. So I think, yeah, he's not afraid to speak his mind on this issue 158 00:16:24,392 --> 00:16:30,936 and again, I can understand where he's coming from in terms of the way it's impacting Fanjul 159 00:16:31,356 --> 00:16:38,980 over other operators. I would say another controversial comment from a gambling CEO. It's interesting. 160 00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:47,264 Generally in this industry, you never badmouth the lawmakers and the regulators. And that 161 00:16:47,444 --> 00:16:53,006 patience seems to be running a bit thin. We saw it in a hearing in New York last year. 162 00:16:53,087 --> 00:16:59,129 Now we are hearing it about Illinois. Steve Reddick on the podcast we did last week mentioned 163 00:16:59,850 --> 00:17:06,051 Some of the attitude about Draftkings and Fandual was allegedly part of the reason. They were 164 00:17:06,071 --> 00:17:10,052 like, we're not just gonna double it, we're gonna make sure you pay more than everybody 165 00:17:10,192 --> 00:17:17,555 else. So I question the effectiveness of this. I mean, it's done, they're not gonna undo it 166 00:17:18,015 --> 00:17:25,277 and I appreciate the candor of it. I will say though, he kind of elaborated on this answer 167 00:17:25,337 --> 00:17:32,071 at another point in the call where On paper, yes, it seems like it sucks the most for DraftKings 168 00:17:32,111 --> 00:17:38,273 and Fandl that they have to pay into a tax structure that is higher than other operators. But Jackson 169 00:17:38,394 --> 00:17:43,456 argued that in other aspects of Flutter's business where they've had these kinds of high taxes 170 00:17:43,836 --> 00:17:51,919 or tiered tax rates, what they've actually seen is since everyone, the tide has risen on tax 171 00:17:51,959 --> 00:17:57,641 rates, smaller operators are going to struggle to cover that cost more than bigger operators 172 00:17:57,741 --> 00:18:03,238 are. and they're going to have to cut pricing, cut marketing, cut promos. And as a result, 173 00:18:04,179 --> 00:18:09,363 as much they basically were like, this is like point blank, the percentage that the money 174 00:18:09,383 --> 00:18:13,546 we think we're going to lose in Illinois. But we also think we're going to get about 10 percent 175 00:18:13,566 --> 00:18:18,551 of it back because our model suggests other people that are smaller are going to get hit 176 00:18:18,571 --> 00:18:23,555 by this so hard that they will end up jumping ship to us. Yeah, I heard this as well and 177 00:18:23,615 --> 00:18:28,298 I thought that was absolutely fascinating that they'd modeled this on other markets where 178 00:18:28,318 --> 00:18:36,345 there were similar tax rates. And I think it goes to something that Adam Greenblatt of BetMGM 179 00:18:36,365 --> 00:18:42,630 was saying, I think he told the SBC Leaders magazine last year where he was predicting 180 00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:49,075 that essentially the smaller operators in the US are basically on sort of numbered days in 181 00:18:49,136 --> 00:18:53,818 terms of how long they can keep on going. It's something that we have seen. We've seen a number 182 00:18:53,858 --> 00:19:03,403 of market exits this year over the last 12 to 18 months. And I guess Peter Jackson and Adam 183 00:19:03,423 --> 00:19:09,585 Greenblatt have predicted this is going to carry on into the future where there are sort of 184 00:19:09,605 --> 00:19:14,528 these, what they would label unsustainable tax rates. Yeah, I'm curious. It's interesting. 185 00:19:15,048 --> 00:19:19,794 Alex Kane, who's been on the pod before and is very outspoken on Twitter. has said in the 186 00:19:19,834 --> 00:19:28,058 past advocating for, you know, sport trade as a smaller operator paying less taxes or a tiered 187 00:19:28,118 --> 00:19:34,262 tax rate that he thinks it would help them. But I think what Jackson's kind of saying is 188 00:19:34,382 --> 00:19:41,106 in tandem with the massive increase in the overall tax rate, you're actually helping us more than 189 00:19:41,146 --> 00:19:47,249 you're helping small operators. It's interesting. I'm very curious to see how things are going 190 00:19:47,269 --> 00:19:53,333 to go. I know my colleague Justin Byers was exhausted by the time he got done trying to 191 00:19:53,473 --> 00:19:58,717 understand this new revenue report with the tiers and whatnot and how it works. That I 192 00:19:58,757 --> 00:20:03,000 think we need to see a little more data before it fully plays out. But it was interesting 193 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,963 that they're saying, you know, we think we're going to lose X amount, but we'll probably 194 00:20:08,023 --> 00:20:13,707 recoup. It could be lower because other operators are going to struggle more than we are. 195 00:20:17,762 --> 00:20:25,146 quick note about another comment he made. It seemed like a veiled jab at GG Poker with the 196 00:20:25,246 --> 00:20:30,689 acquisition of the World Series of Poker. Jackson's statement, GG Poker operates in a lot of markets 197 00:20:30,729 --> 00:20:35,792 that we wouldn't be prepared to operate in, so I think there's some interesting questions 198 00:20:35,833 --> 00:20:44,990 there for some of those people involved. Yeah, that was spiky. Yeah, so I- I don't follow 199 00:20:45,030 --> 00:20:50,633 the international scene as much as the rest of you guys. I do understand that GG Poker 200 00:20:51,233 --> 00:20:59,317 is in a lot of very unregulated markets. I've heard rumors and speculation that perhaps some 201 00:20:59,357 --> 00:21:06,341 of their geofencing and things allows for people with VPNs and very simple spoofing technology 202 00:21:06,381 --> 00:21:12,763 to get in. So. I think there's always been speculation here in the States. There's a reason they only 203 00:21:12,783 --> 00:21:18,065 have a supplier license in Pennsylvania and they've never pursued licenses anywhere else. 204 00:21:18,786 --> 00:21:26,989 Some of that is the WSOP is on and whatever 888 is called now, contract for another year, 205 00:21:28,130 --> 00:21:34,412 Evoke, right? Evoke, yes. Okay. I can't keep up with all of these very new agey rebrands. 206 00:21:36,113 --> 00:21:40,795 So some of it is that. But- They've never really come into the States and the whispers have 207 00:21:40,855 --> 00:21:49,020 always been, can they muster up the suitability necessary? And I, it seems to me as I'm reading 208 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,483 this, that Jackson might be raising an eyebrow in that general direction. Yeah. I think he's 209 00:21:54,563 --> 00:22:01,287 probably raising more than one eyebrow. Maybe a finger and pointing it. Yeah, absolutely. 210 00:22:01,527 --> 00:22:07,050 Again, again, it was another sort of, um, big moment in, in the earnings call. A lot of the 211 00:22:07,090 --> 00:22:12,556 time these earnings call can be quite dry, not too many lines, a lot of financial data, but 212 00:22:12,616 --> 00:22:19,363 this Flutter one, there were quite a few interesting news points, which was great from a journalist's 213 00:22:19,383 --> 00:22:25,249 perspective. Yeah. It was Feisty Man pointing fingers at lawmakers, at the WSOP and GG Poker 214 00:22:25,269 --> 00:22:32,547 deal, and apparently the new favorite thing to pick on, you know. Enjoy the run, daily 215 00:22:32,567 --> 00:22:39,314 fantasy sports against the house, sweepstakes, casinos are the new target du jour for these 216 00:22:39,394 --> 00:22:44,659 operators. All right, we have completely run out of time, so I am gonna go ahead and wrap 217 00:22:44,740 --> 00:22:49,965 up, but Charlie, thank you for your insights. I'm glad that you got to weigh in on one of 218 00:22:50,005 --> 00:22:55,903 the more absurd, weird choices we've seen in the industry this year. I'm sure we'll have 219 00:22:55,964 --> 00:23:00,151 something to say about DraftKings or someone else on our next episode of iGaming Daily, 220 00:23:00,171 --> 00:23:01,314 so be sure to tune in.