Welcome everyone to Faith and Purpose podcast.
Each episode of this podcast contains the personal testimony of an ordinary person
transformed by an extraordinary God.
My name is Caitlin and I'm here to introduce this podcast
for my friend Jesse Duke.
Jesse is a husband, father, author, life recovery guide, lay counselor,
and small group leader, but his most important role is disciple.
As a disciple of Jesus.
Jesse created this podcast to help other believers tell their faith stories.
We'll be hearing the personal testimonies of all sorts of people
who have one thing in common, Jesus has transformed their lives.
Jesus used parables because he created us to learn best through story.
And as we listen to how God has worked in others lives, we find encouragement
and inspiration for our own faith walk.
Whether you are already a believer, or just a curious seeker, we believe that
as you listen to these stories, you will be encouraged on your own faith journey.
We are sure that God can speak to you through one of these episodes, and that
you will see that our Heavenly Father truly works all things together for
our good, When we simply love and trust him if you are currently going through
a trial We believe that you will come to see that your troubles Heartbreaks
and failures are not gravestones, but stepping stones into new life in Christ.
Here's Jesse with today's guest
Welcome to Faith and Purpose podcast.
Today, I'm honored to have my friend and brother in Christ, Robert Hampshire to
tell his story, Robert is the Worship and Discipleship Pastor at Sherald First
Baptist Church in Sherald, South Carolina.
He's an awesome worship leader and a great communicator.
Welcome, Robert.
Thank you for being here to tell your story.
Thanks, Jesse.
So, Robert, I know you've been walking with the Lord for a long time, and you've
been in ministry for a long time, so, uh, I know there's no way you can tell
your whole life story in an hour or so.
But I appreciate you being here.
Just give us some highlights of how the Lord has shown up in your
life and feel free to just talk about whatever comes to mind.
And I may ask some questions along the way.
So go right ahead.
So I was born in Northern Ohio, a small farming poor town.
And, uh, I like to, like to tell people I grew up in a single wide trailer.
I didn't grow up in it, but I.
My, my first few years, maybe first five years was in a single wide trailer
in the trailer park and we didn't have much, but, uh, you know, my, my dad was
just kind of a working in a, working in an industry and my mom stayed at home.
And then, uh, we left there when I was five, my dad, dad was chasing a,
uh, kind of a next step in his career.
Uh, and, and that wasn't completely his choice.
The company that my dad worked with.
Tanked and a lot of people lost a lot of money and it was really bad situation.
So they said, we're going to get out of here and get out of Northern Ohio.
There's nothing here for us.
And so with, uh, because of God's providence, we ended up moving
to a place in Georgia for a year, which didn't, didn't work
out quite like he hoped either.
And then we moved to the upstate of South Carolina.
Uh, and then I was in first grade.
I remember I showed up to first grade about two weeks late.
And so that was, that was tough.
Not only because I was a Northerner, so I was called a Yankee and city slicker.
I remember people, and I didn't even know what either of those terms meant.
You know, I just knew I talked different than, uh, than the people in small, rural,
uh, small town, rural South Carolina.
But, uh, but I also.
I felt like I had no friends because, you know, I showed up two weeks
late into the start of school, everybody already knew each other
and, or they were already from there.
And so that, that was actually pretty helpful for me in, I guess, maybe
developing, uh, Maybe some more confidence later on in life about who I was and how
to make friends and that kind of thing.
But, uh, so I stayed in South Carolina upstate is a town called
Chesney, actually, from first grade through senior in high school.
And so elementary, middle high school, when I graduated high school, I
went to North Greenville university.
And spent, uh, I, I crammed a four year degree into five years, which was, uh,
you know, pretty impressive, I think, and then ended up, uh, I stayed around
Greenville for about another year, got married, met my wife in, uh, around the
area, she didn't go to the same school, but we had mutual friends and actually
some of my mutual friends ended up being her family, her, her family members.
So then we moved to Virginia where I.
I served as an intern at a church for a couple of years, and that developed
into something else, which developed into something else, and I became a
family pastor, and then a church plant pastor, planted a church, and that
went as well as I could have imagined, and God called us away from there.
And so now we live back in South Carolina, a completely different
part of the state, but, uh, it was, it was just where God moved us and
some things fell, fell into my lap.
And again, we'd call that God's providence.
And I serve at a church now in Sterol, South Carolina.
As a, uh, as one of the pastors on staff.
Let me go back to, uh, North Greenville.
So you managed to cram four years into five.
So what was your degree in?
Well, I started off with radio broadcasting and I don't remember
exactly why, but that, that probably isn't the most promising career choice.
Uh, so I switched to psychology.
However, the, I got saved when I was in fifth grade and pretty soon after
that, God laid on my heart, a desire to preach or a calling to preach back then.
That's the only term I knew, uh, what to use a call to preach and,
but a, a call to vocational ministry.
And so I was, I was really pursuing that in one way or another.
But I was, uh, encouraged by another pastor at the church that
I had been saved in and that my parents got saved in because we
got, got saved around the same time.
Um, I was encouraged to pursue a trade, not to pursue a ministry degree so that,
you know, cause the idea was all you need is the Bible and, uh, if God wants you
to be a pastor, he'll give you a church.
But that church may kick you out.
So if that keeps you up, then you're going to need a trade to fall back on too.
And I understand why he gave that advice.
I don't necessarily think that was the best advice I could have been
given, but I followed it nonetheless.
And so that's why I hit it in the radio broadcasting.
And then, cause I really, I mean, to be honest, I had no idea what
else I would do other than pastor, but I was supposed to get a trade.
So I did that.
And then I moved in psychology thinking, you know, Christian
counseling would be a helpful trade.
And they say everybody who gets into Uh, gets a degree in psychology, which
is what I ended up graduating with.
Everybody who goes that route is a little crazy and they're just
trying to figure themselves out.
So, uh, so that very well may be true, but that's what I ended up graduating
with the, the psychology degree.
Well, can we go back to when you got saved and can you tell us how that came about?
And, and then how did you perceive God's calling on your life?
Yeah.
You said that happened at a young age.
It did.
I would have been, you know, so got saved in fifth grade and then it would have
been, uh, as a, as a preteen or early teenage years that, uh, since God's
calling for, for, uh, pastoral ministry.
But so my family were not.
Or my family was not a Christian family.
We had, uh, we didn't go to church.
We, I didn't know the name of Jesus previous to maybe fourth grade.
And we, I had been to a couple of churches up in.
Ohio is my, like my grandparents church, but, uh, uh, with the risk of being
too judgmental, it seemed like that was more of a, just kind of a club,
kind of a country club for mostly elderly, a handful of elderly people.
And, uh, and, and I'd only gone there maybe twice that I, that I can recall.
And so when we moved to South Carolina.
Yeah, my parents weren't Christians.
Uh, me and my two brothers were not Christians.
And so we were just living a normal life, I guess, you know,
normal American non Christian life.
And, and we didn't even have the Southern Bible Belt mentality because
that's not where we were from.
And so I knew, knew nothing of the church and the Bible, Jesus.
But I do remember seeing a leather, a black leather bound book on my, on my
parents coffee table when I was a kid.
And this would have been Third, fourth grade or so, um, and for whatever
reason it was on the coffee table.
I'm not sure because I don't remember the timeline, but I remember
asking my dad, what is this book?
Because you just don't see leather bound books too often.
And he explained to me something.
I don't, I don't remember what he explained, but I didn't
understand whatever it was.
And come to find out again, that was a Bible.
And, uh, and then I, I would find out several years later, it kind of came
back to my mind several years later.
Oh yeah.
I remember when I, what that book was and it was a Bible.
And so what was happening in my family's life at that time, though, at least
I know this reason why it was on the coffee table was because God was.
pursuing my dad and was, God had sent a couple people to our house that
were, that were part of this church.
They were just on this random kind of cold call house to house visitation,
which doesn't happen too much anymore.
But, um, cause people aren't home as much as they used to be.
But they just randomly stopped by the house, talked to my dad.
And for whatever reason, God had began to open his heart at that time.
And so he was willing to listen to the gospel.
Whereas before that, he was, he was never really willing to listen to it,
you know, for the many years before that, uh, that he had heard the gospel.
And so after, I think three visits is, is his story after
three visits of these guys.
Um, he ended up praying and getting saved and I remember it was, I stepped
downstairs from our, uh, my bedroom was upstairs and I was, I stepped
downstairs and I was kind of peeking around the corner and I saw my dad
with these guys and he was kneeling down on the living room floor.
We had this nasty green shag carpet and he was kneeling down to the floor.
And he was crying and I've never seen my dad cry and, uh, never seen
him kneel down like that either.
It was really weird.
And so I didn't know what was going on and, uh, thought it was kind of odd and
come to find out he'd got saved that day.
You know, the next Sunday, our family was in church.
My mom ends up getting saved.
My brothers got saved.
And then, um, and I was still pretty young.
So when, when I was, uh, in third or fourth grade, it had to have
been third grade, I remember being at a revival service.
So this was.
Uh, early on when we first started going to the church and our church
had a lot of revival services.
So I remember going to it.
I, I had no clue what was going on and what was being talked about.
It wasn't really paying attention, but the, the, the traveling evangelist or
preacher or whatever he was for the revival, he, uh, as an illustration, he
had a couple guys bind me in thinking.
It was, it was either a thick rope or it was chains.
I can't remember what it was.
Chains make a better story, so we'll say that's what it was.
And so they bound me in chains and they carried me down the aisle
of the church, real small church, to the double swinging doors.
And that was, it was an illustration as if the angels were throwing
somebody into the lake of fire.
And, you know, so . So I like to say I had to get saved after that.
I didn't have a choice, you know, , it was, uh, I, I was human, so I, I had to
be moved by that kind of illustration.
But again, I, I had no idea what that meant.
Um, I wasn't, I hadn't even really been paying attention.
So I said I got saved at that, at that moment.
But it wasn't until, uh, fifth grade that I really began to realize I was
a sinner and that I needed saving.
And that I'm, that Jesus was the only savior.
And so, um, so the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin, like I
said, when I was in fifth grade.
And, uh, then I think it was maybe just kind of in a normal, normal service.
And, and I remember really being convicted of my sin.
I was at home.
I was actually at home by myself one day.
I remember that.
And I was sitting outside, uh, on the, uh, front steps.
And again, God convicted my, God convicted my sin and I didn't
know what to do with that.
So that following Sunday is when I actually, uh, kind of came forward,
talked to somebody and got saved.
And then, and then in that church, one of the, probably the best things
about that church, I guess, was that they talked about the call to
ministry or the call to pastor a lot.
And, you know, most churches probably don't talk about it too much.
And so the downside of that, I guess, was that there were several other
men in the church that also said God had called them to be a pastor.
And, you know, that may not have actually been the case.
It was almost like that you, if you're a good Christian man, you're
going to be called to be a pastor.
You know, it's like, uh, that, that was the next step.
And so some of them, I think, felt the, maybe the, the influence.
to, to do that and to step forward and to tell the church they're
called to be a pastor, when maybe God really hadn't because they didn't
want to be a second class Christian.
Well, nevertheless, God used that to, uh, to convict me.
And I remember I was, I was listening.
It was a period of time, short period of time, but I remember hearing sermons
and I remember reading scripture and it was, I mean, it was just this heavy
burden on me that basically Holy Spirit saying, that's what you need to be doing.
Or that's what I'm calling you to do.
And, and I could just really see myself up there, you know, in front
of a congregation, preach and teaching and, and it just made total sense.
And so God placed in me a desire to do that.
Years later, I would read 1st Timothy 3 where it says if anyone aspires to
the office of a bishop or overseer, pastor, elder, then they desire a good
thing or they aspire to a good thing.
And so that's, that's what God put in my heart when I was a teenager
was that aspiration or that desire.
And, and then thing after thing after thing really confirmed that.
And I started preaching when I was in, I guess, high school.
Maybe even middle school.
I can't remember.
Um, you know, might've been my first actual sermon, which
was horrible, of course.
And I worked really hard on it, but it only lasted about five minutes.
And, uh, may or may not have been a sacrilegious, whatever, but, uh, but
anyways, and then, and then God confirmed that through the years and started
doing some things more in high school.
And, uh, I got some more stories about that.
Even, uh, I preached on a street corner in that town for about.
And probably six years, most every Sunday for about six years.
That may be, uh, exaggeration, but Well, tell us about that, because
this is, uh, not many people were going to do that kind of thing.
What was that like?
Yeah, well, again, the, the church I was part of, uh, if you're a man, if you're
a Christian man, then the, the next step, you know, if you, if you're really
spiritual, would be preaching, pastoring.
Um, I guess they would just call it preaching back then, you know,
be an evangelist, be a missionary.
be a teacher in some capacity.
So one of the outlets of that was our church had a what they call a
street street preaching ministry.
And so there was a corner in, uh, at an intersection.
in that town of Chesney that we would go to every Sunday afternoon at three or four
o'clock and there would sometimes be 50 of us, maybe more, and all the men wore
suits in that church and all the women wore dresses, so I'm sure it was quite a
sight to see and, uh, and back then, um, street preaching was probably a little
bit more, uh, common in the late 1990s.
the late 20th century.
And you know, it wasn't as common as maybe as it had been, but at that
time it was still, you still saw it.
And so that's what our church was doing.
And we thought the pastor thought maybe that was the
best approach to reach people.
And, uh, so sometimes there might be 10, 20 preachers and then their families
and their kids, and we'd have signs and we'd have banners and we'd have
PVC pipe, uh, structured signs printed.
I mean, things like repent or perish, turn or burn, you know, those,
those kinds of stereotypical things.
That was our church.
And, uh, so we, that's what we did.
And so, because I was called to preach, that's what I started doing too.
And so all through high school and then into college a little
bit, uh, Sunday afternoon, that's where I was on that street corner.
And, uh, we ended up moving from, from one street corner to.
Another street corner, same intersection, but I think we
got kicked off that sidewalk.
So we, we moved to another street corner.
And then for whatever reason, that stopped working out.
Maybe we got kicked off that property.
So we moved across the street to a vacant lot to that street corner.
So we just kind of moved around the whole street corner.
But what was interesting is that that intersection, what, or that
town, that road, There was a lot of cruising, they called it.
So, I mean, there would be hundreds of cars, maybe thousands of cars on
a Sunday afternoon that would pass through and they would, they would
drive down, make this loop down at the elementary school, drive back to the
high school, make a loop and, and all day Sunday, that's what they were doing.
And, uh, so you could say we had an audience, I guess, to some extent, but,
but I was, you know, I was in high school now and I was at the public high school.
And so people would see me out there.
And, uh, and then I started playing football for the high school, which just
be honest was really one of the things that God used to, I would say change
my life and make me even help me become who I am today was high school football
as maybe silly as that might sound.
Um, but, and so I would see my foot, my football friends and
they were cruising down the street and, you know, they didn't, they
didn't know what to make of it.
And I didn't know what to make of it, but that's what we were supposed to do.
And, um, it was interesting because I don't know how much fruit,
spiritual fruit, came from that ministry, the street preaching.
But again, I was just trying to be faithful to do what I was supposed to do.
And I know a lot of other people were too.
And we were just hoping, you know, God's Word wouldn't return void.
And, uh, and I think probably there were some people that were touched.
We just didn't hear about it.
It took root in you anyway.
It sure did, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, tell me about this.
High school football had a big influence on you.
How was that?
How did that come about?
Yeah, so there was really, say, several aspects of it, and I probably should,
um, should spend some more time thinking.
It's a statement I've made before, but I haven't really spent a whole lot of
time writing down my thoughts about that.
But, um, so I probably should.
But one aspect was I found some friends and previous to high school, uh, because
my family wasn't really well connected with any other families in the town,
except for a couple of families in the church, which didn't have any teenagers,
didn't really have too many friends.
Uh, and I didn't really know how to be a friend, just to be
honest, especially the guys.
just didn't, uh, my dad and I didn't have the best of relationships.
And so I'd really been having good friend friendships with other
guys and that would come later.
But football gave me that.
So that was good.
Football gave me the, you know, the community, the camaraderie of a team,
um, and the team sport aspect of it.
You know, we're working on, on a, a project together, you know,
trying to win a football game.
So all that was really beneficial to me.
Uh, and, and I think you would probably get it in other sports as well.
Few sports are as aggressive and, uh, and emotional as football because
of, because of the impact, you know, it's an impact sport and, um, and so
you, you really have to, you really have to push yourself again, other,
I'm sure other sports have a similar.
Similar aspect to it.
But, but in football, you know, because of just the violence of it, I would
imagine it's more like military than any other sport, just because of
the violence, um, which for me was, was a really good thing because I,
I just never been pushed like that.
Never had to exert that much energy, never had to hit somebody.
And so all of that was, was really good for me and just kind of developed some
healthy aggression, maybe that doesn't.
Maybe it doesn't develop healthy in everybody, but it was good for me.
And so I developed some aggression, learned how to use, kind of control
my emotions, even control my anger.
And because, because anger is a, is a helpful emotion unless it's not
controlled, if it's left unbridled and, and sports helped me develop that.
Kind of, uh, control or learning how to channel that.
And, but then also the physical aspect of getting in shape.
So previous to my, the summer before my ninth grade year, I was the same height.
I am right now, uh, hit my growth spurt growth spurt early.
Um, so around seventh and eighth grade, I was six, one about two 30.
So I was a big kid, but.
I had pretty much no muscle.
It was, that was just all fat.
Cause I never really did anything.
I mean, I just, you know, stayed at home and played video, video games.
Well, not video games, called computer games then.
Cause we didn't have a, didn't have a video game system.
Just really didn't do much.
I was an artist, I guess.
That's about all I did.
And so I started playing football and started working out, started
running, started doing pushups, nothing I've ever done before.
And so it, it's.
I developed or discovered in athleticism that I didn't know.
So that really gave me a hobby.
It gave me something to do.
Um, it gave me some, some strength that I didn't have,
which built some confidence in me.
And so kind of that whole world of, I guess, what you would hope sports would
do in somebody is what it did in me.
And, uh, and so that would then translate into really the rest of
my life, staying relatively fit.
You know, there's, there's times and seasons where, where especially, you know,
you get married and have a few little kids, it's kind of hard to stay relatively
fit, but, uh, but it gave me enough of a foundation that I can keep going back to.
And, um, and that really characterizes my life now.
I mean, I'm, I am, I play sports as often as I can, volleyball and, uh,
basketball, uh, you know, go for a run or go for a walk or go to the gym.
And all that stemmed from, uh, from high school football.
So let me ask you another question.
What'd you do as soon as you got out of college?
And you mentioned being an associate pastor.
So what year did you graduate?
Well, I graduated high school in 2002 and then went to college that fall.
And, and while I was in college, this was, you know, I say maybe I
shouldn't have hit it into radio broadcasting, but what that did for me.
God, God at work making the best of a, uh, maybe not wise decision.
I don't know if it was wise or not, but you know, looking back, who knows?
Hindsight is 20, 20.
But what God did was he used that radio broadcasting to put me in touch
with some people, gave me some really good connections with some people.
I developed a, uh, I got to use some.
Broadcasting equipment, which was, was, would end up being helpful later on, you
know, audio editing and video editing, um, which I've done quite a bit of.
And then kind of learning how to use some technology, you know, uh,
that, and that got me interested in music as well, which I hadn't really
been, especially Christian music.
My understanding of Christian music was, was very limited because of that.
Suits on men, dresses on women, street preaching church that I was part of.
Uh, you know, music was a, uh, if it wasn't a piano and organ,
it wasn't Christian, basically.
And, and even then, the the selection of what is that, what passes for
Christian, still pretty small.
And, and so radio broadcasting got me introduced into Christian music,
which turns out was very useful for me.
And then it also allowed me to see, I got to experience some things and
to see parts of the world that I, I probably would have never been to because
through radio broadcasting, I started and because of football in high school.
Those kind of came together and I started broadcasting football games on our
school radio, uh, did some basketball games too, but mostly football games.
And so because of that, Because our college to, you know, uh, drove to Florida
to play games or Virginia or West Virginia or Kentucky, Tennessee, Pennsylvania.
So I ended up traveling all those places, saw a lot more of the
world that I'd never seen before.
Uh, through that, I ended up going to flew to California and flew to Nashville.
And.
So that, that turned out to be, like I said, a really good experience that,
uh, that I wasn't, wasn't expecting.
But then I, then I graduated with a psychology degree, but during those
college years, because I began to be introduced into Christian music,
I also was introduced to guitar and started playing guitar, which was
not good for the first several years.
It was very bad.
Actually, I had, uh, I had zero.
natural music ability.
I, I have told people, and that is very true.
Uh, you know, no rhythm, no timing.
I didn't, I didn't understand what music was about, why music was what it was.
I knew nothing about it.
All I could do was sing loudly.
Uh, not always good.
It was just loud.
And so, but God, God used that to, that, that was really the first time that
I was kind of on staff of a church.
It was a small church in, in my hometown when I was in college.
That, uh, just friend of a friend got, got me introduced to.
And so I started leading.
music at a church and that ended up getting me connected with another
church because somebody, somebody I was in a band with got connected
to a church in Simpsonville, South Carolina, outside of Greenville, where
I was the worship leader a little bit.
Kind of, it was a step forward in a sense, as far as the career
of, uh, pastoral ministry.
But I was leading worship there, and then that got me connected to some people.
And anyways, it was, you know, kind of long road from there of multiple different
positions and different churches that, uh, God arranged my life to go into.
So I've seen you play your guitar and sing and lead worship, and it seems
like, uh, you're anointed for that.
I don't know, you say you don't, you didn't have natural talent,
you must have supernatural talent.
So what is that like for you, playing music?
Yeah, so, um, what I would, what I would describe that as now, I didn't
know the words really at the time, so I would describe music for me as a
spiritual gift, meaning it was a gift given to me after my salvation that,
uh, that I needed it for a season.
But there was a ministry that needed to be led and I happened to be available.
And so God gave me the gift of music and then, uh, and had been
developing in me gifts of leadership.
And so I had that aspect already going, but God gave me
the gift of music and, and it.
And I, I, I say that also that it was a gift from God because when I was
first put into a position of leading music, again, simply because I could
sing loudly, that was the only reason.
And I was told that later on, uh, well, you could, you know, cause it
was a small church and they said, well, if you're going to be here.
Might as well be up front because we're going to hear you anyways.
And, uh, and so I started to sing and then somebody said, Oh, you play guitar.
It was like, well, I own a guitar, but wouldn't say I really play.
So I started to get into it, but realized I was so far.
Uh, all this was so far above my head and I was, I had no clue what I was doing.
And so I tried to get into it and I tried to try to learn some things, but it
really wasn't clicking very well for me.
Um, but I remember I was driving down the road, or riding down the road, I
wasn't driving, I was with somebody, and God just gave me an understanding
about music that I didn't have.
And he, uh, I like to say he didn't give me All understandings about music.
He just gave me enough.
And so I remember I couldn't wait until I got back home to my guitar
to try out what just came to me.
And, um, and it, things just started to click.
It made sense.
And so I began to really what, what God gave me was it's called music theory,
but just kind of the fundamentals of music, why it works in the way that it
does and why certain things go together.
And so.
That allowed me to start playing guitar, to lead a band, to lead the congregation
in worship and, uh, that gave me a little bit more of a desire to learn music
and, and learn songs and what songs to learn, which is what then later on, I
discovered things like harmonies and, uh, but it, but it really came from
that, that day I was riding down the road and realizing I was I was way too far.
I just didn't know what I was doing.
And God gave me that.
Wow, that's, that's a powerful example of how God will equip the
available, the willing and available.
Absolutely.
So, Robert, you've been a Christian for a long time, ever since you
were about 11 or 12 years old.
You've been involved in several ministries.
You have a family.
You've had to deal with a lot of things.
Life along the way.
Are there any challenges or setbacks that you'd like to share or anything
that the Lord has taught you?
Yeah, you know because I got to see the Dramatic change in my parents life
as a kid because when I got saved in fifth grade there were I don't have
this long list of sins and life choices and Divorces, you know, whatever drug
addictions That I can look back and say, well, man, look what God saved me from.
Mm-Hmm.
You know, I was, uh, I know that I lied.
I know that I sold, um, at that point, not even sure if I
lusted, you know, fifth grade.
I, I, I don't think I was, I wasn't quite there yet, that that would come later.
Um, but because my, my own salvation story wasn't quite as dramatic, which, you
know, of course it was, it was a miracle.
God saved me from hell and took what was dead and made it alive.
But, but I did get to see that in my parents a lot more, and I get to see
that in a few other people as well.
And then also, the church, the church I was in was very small.
Uh, I mean this in the, maybe, maybe the most appropriate way, very narrow minded.
Uh, I know that phrase could probably be used to, uh, used in a, in a wrong sense.
But, um, their understanding, and my understanding at the time,
of Christianity was very small.
You know, almost to the point that if you weren't part of our church or part
of our tribe, you probably weren't going to heaven if you didn't do the
things we do, think how we think.
And so I, um, I, when I got to college, I began to discover a world of
Christianity that I didn't know existed.
I discovered denominations of people that love Jesus more than I did, but
they weren't the same denomination.
I discovered that there were other Bible translations or Bible versions.
And people read them and preach from them and led people to Jesus.
And it wasn't the same as what I used and what I was taught was always right.
And then I began to discover that some of these preachers that I had listened to may
not have really been preaching scripture.
That may have been more preaching their opinion.
And in some of them, uh, their opinions were wrong.
And, and even some of their lifestyles were wrong.
And, you know, there was, I didn't experience any abuse
myself, but come to find out.
There were people around me that had been abused, either spiritual abuse
or even physical abuse, sexual abuse, that that was, that was the world
that that was all around that I just didn't know, uh, I didn't know existed.
And so my, I would say my freshman year of college, I was just hit in
the face with, with all of these, with reality, with reality of, uh,
sin that I didn't know existed with.
With the reality of, you know, there's this thing called pornography
that I didn't really know existed.
Um, that was, you know, that time internet was in full swing and people had cell
phones and, uh, you know, and computers.
And, and so, you know, I'm beginning to discover this, there's all this
temptation at my fingertips, the Christianity that I thought was.
Black and white, hard and fast, uh, isn't quite like that, that there are
Christians all across the world that believe slightly differently about certain
doctrines than I did, that, uh, that they seem to be right and I was wrong.
And then these preachers that I had really thought were, you know,
God's messengers for the people, God's prophets for the people.
They wouldn't have called themselves prophets, of course,
but, but that's how I saw them.
Um, you know, maybe, maybe they weren't even right.
Maybe some of them weren't even Christians, you know, it's just
so I was really blindsided by that wasn't prepared for that.
And, uh, and then it began to, um, build relationships with, uh, other
people that some that love Jesus, some that didn't love Jesus and, you
know, starting to have girlfriends.
And, and so, like I said, my freshman year was, was I just got
blindsided with a lot of things.
Um, and then I also began to realize my relationship with my dad wasn't very good.
I didn't really know that before.
He was the only dad I ever had, you know.
I thought it was normal.
So I began to realize that.
Um, and so God in his grace kept me from straying too far during that time.
And I'm very thankful for that, uh, considering all those things.
that, uh, that I was blindsided with.
And so, and part of the reason why God kept me from straying too far was, I
was just in a really good environment.
The school I was in was a really good environment.
And, and the, some of the people that God sent into my life
were just wonderful people.
And, um, and then of course, that I, I began to freshman, sophomore
year, junior year, really start to find a love for God's word, which
I'll get back to that in a second.
But, um, and God gave me wisdom about some things that certainly
didn't come from myself.
And so I began to realize Yeah, maybe there were a bunch of preachers that
preached their own opinions that, that may not have been doing the
right thing, living the right way.
Maybe even some of them were, were racist or, or abusive or whatever.
But you know, God works in spite of all of us that it wasn't just them.
And, and the, the preacher that preached when I got saved, he was,
he's a fallen, broken person, just like I was, or just like I am.
And he's just as much of a hypocrite as I would be later on in life too, you know?
So, so that was helpful that I came to that realization or God gave me
that realization that God works in spite of all of us anyways, um, I
also began to realize very quickly that my relationship with my dad.
Maybe it wasn't ideal, but you know, he had a lot of
brokenness in his own childhood.
And, and his dad was pretty distant.
His mom was not the best mom.
And so, you know, his, I, I was.
Hoping for this picture perfect relationship that, that he
wasn't equipped to have himself.
And so that was helpful.
You know, I realized that.
And, um, so that, so God really met a lot of those things.
I was blindsided with God was right there with a person or with a, with a
scripture or with an understanding and some wisdom that filled in the gaps.
And that was, that was very helpful.
And, uh, then when I, I guess I.
It's kind of funny when, when I was a sophomore, that's probably the time
that sophomore, junior year was probably the time that I started to stray the
most, even though I was blindsided with all those things as a freshman year,
right in my freshman year of college.
Um, I maybe I had enough foundation or, or enough good people around me
that, that I was able to just keep.
Keep walking right through it.
But then I think it was maybe my junior year.
Um, I started to get, uh, I, I, I probably dated more than
I ever had previous to that.
And again, it's kind of funny.
I think maybe when you're an upperclassman, girls
pay attention to you more.
So I started to get attention from some girls and, um, and so that,
you know, kind of fed my ego.
And, and so probably around those years I started to stray
the most and it really wasn't.
I didn't jump off the cliff of, you know, any kind of spiritual cliff.
I just really started to get apathetic of, uh, of my spiritual walk and
my faith and my Bible reading.
And then I appreciated other people's attention, especially
girls a little bit too much.
And so I, I remember one girl in particular that I'd started dating.
I mean, she just.
She, she talked me up, you know, laughed at my jokes and, uh, just thought I was
great, or at least she said she thought I was, you know, just the next best thing
since sliced bread and, and that got to me and that, you know, fed my pride.
And so I just let my Christianity really take a backseat and it
was a short amount of time.
I would say it was probably four or six months, but during that
time, um, because because my faith took a backseat because my.
Um, I just started putting way too much thoughts and time into this relationship
with a girl who claimed to be a Christian, but certainly wasn't living
that, wasn't living a Christian life.
And it got to the point where I started to, I started to think, man,
if I stay with this girl, I'm, my life is going to be much different.
I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to become a pastor.
If, if I have a relationship with this girl, it's, we're not
going to live a Christian life.
And, and, And that relationship was really, it was, I wouldn't say
it was destructive, but for me, it was not headed in a good direction.
And, and I remember it was Christmas morning when I was 20 years old.
So again, I would, I think I would've been a junior in college, um, Christmas
morning, you know, Christmas break, I'm, um, I'm home and I see, I wake up in the
morning and I see some spots on my face.
And my tongue, I was brushing my teeth.
I see these spots on my tongue.
I'm like, what, what is, what is this?
And so, and so then I started looking at spots all over my body.
Purple spots, what, uh, come to find out what called purpura, you
know, blood coming to the surface.
And so I went and showed my dad and, uh, he.
He got a little paranoid, of course.
And so we went to the emergency room and I sat in the emergency
room for an hour, Christmas morning.
And then I ended up being taken to the hospital.
They're running all these tests and no idea what's going on.
You know, they see that there's, there's an issue.
And so they, they come up with this word idiopathic, which means we don't
know what's going on, but it's an issue.
And so, um, so the diagnosis that eventually is ITP.
idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, which means we don't know why, but you have
a, you have some kind of blood issue.
And so I think I was maybe after about day five of being in the hospital,
all these tests, nobody has a clue.
Um, and they're putting me on antibiotics or maybe it was
antibiotics, but put me on steroids.
I remember.
And, but during that time, I would say I felt God's love.
I felt his, I felt his love more than ever in my life.
because I recognized what was happening was, uh, God chastising me.
He was, he was disciplining me, um, for the, for the life that I was living
and the direction I was headed on.
And so, you know, like I said, I really saw that as God's like,
God loved me so much that he was willing to step in and stop me and
give me an opportunity to repent.
And, uh, so I did.
And, um, And there was some real other realizations I came to at that time.
It was really helpful.
One of those in particular, which is kind of funny.
Was somebody had given me a new living translation of the Bible.
And, uh, and again, the church I grew up in had a very narrow mind about things.
And we were only allowed to use the King James Bible.
Uh, and that was the, that was the only one that, you know, if it was good enough
for John the Baptist, it was good enough for us and you know, that kind of thing.
And, uh, and so I was, but I had a new living translation and because what God
was doing in my heart at that time, I mean, and I had nothing else to do because
I was in a hospital room by myself.
I had visitors, um, you know, here and there, and we spent Christmas morning in
the hospital, so we did gift exchange in the hospital, um, and then my birthday
was, was four days, it's four days after Christmas, and, uh, so I spent
my birthday in there as well, and, um, but I started reading the Bible, and
it was just this little tiny New Living Translation of the Bible, and I started
reading it for the first time in my life.
I enjoyed reading the Bible, and I found myself not wanting to put it down.
And I was reading the Old Testament, too.
So I was just reading these stories, and I was like, Man, I've just
never seen the Bible like this.
I've never read it like this.
Again, it was also because of what God was doing in my life.
But, but, I mean, I know it sounds horrible, but I just didn't
enjoy reading the King James.
You know, the, the, the style that it was written in, and
the language that's being used.
I understood it, for the most part, but I just didn't enjoy it.
And so I found myself enjoying reading the Bible.
And that was really a pivotal time for me because I realized that that God
is for me, that he's a personal God and that he gave me his word, not as a
list of rules to keep me from living my life, but as, uh, as instructions and
really as a love letter to me, to lead me to life, not, not to keep me from
living life, but really to live life.
And, and I never really realized it like that before.
And, uh, And that was really helpful.
And also at the time, the pastor of the church I grew up in came to
visit me and he was very judgmental.
Um, and, and was saying something about God's doing this
because of sin in your life.
And although he was right, it, the way he presented it.
Really caused me kind of to turn to turn off a little bit from
from that style of Christianity.
Meanwhile, this pastor of another church that I was I was already at.
It was actually a Wesleyan church, a church that I was leading worship in
the first church I led worship in.
He came to visit me and he gave me this other side of God.
And he was talking about God's love and he was talking about
God's grace and God's healing.
And so, you know, it's almost like, uh.
I had had the choice of, of which meal to eat, which tree to eat from,
you know, uh, and tree of life or tree of knowledge of good and evil.
I was quite like that, but, but it seemed like that at the time.
And I'm like, man, I'm, I'm going that direction.
I'm going, I'm going with life and grace and love and forgiveness.
And, um, and that, that was really cool that I was able to, to see, and it's funny
too because it was almost like darkness and light, you know, because the preacher
that came was wearing a black suit, but the preacher that the, the other preacher
that came, um, was wearing like a white polo or something or a light colored polo.
So it was, you know, you could write a story about it, write
a poem about it, but, um.
But like I said, God really used that, that moment in my life
to, to bring me back on track.
And, uh, that was really helpful.
And I learned a lot of things.
A lot of things changed really in that short season of my life.
And, uh, I'm very thankful for that.
Yeah.
Thank you.
That's wonderful.
I love that story.
And I liked what you said about the NLT because I grew up with the King James too.
And somewhere along the way I graduated to a new King James,
but, and that was like my.
Go to Bible for most of my life and when the NLT came out in the 90s
It was you know, kind of kind of weird, you know Getting used to it.
I didn't really didn't use it very much until the past few years Thank God and
now I got kind of go back between the back and forth between the New King
James You know just because I'm familiar with the language, you know, I'm kind of
emotionally or psychologically attached to the to the wording of the New King James,
but the NLT has been really enlightening, I think, and it's fun to compare them.
So that experience in the hospital where you got the preacher in the
black suit and the preacher in the white polo, such a stark contrast,
that's a really great story.
Any other things like that that have happened along the way
that helped you understand God?
Yeah.
Yeah, I'd say there's been a ton of little things.
The whole opportunity that we had moving to Virginia, planning a church, being
part of a church, things learned so much.
Um, and then planting a church that, that wasn't my choice.
Um, that, that was just very clearly something that God was leading us to do.
Wasn't even something I was interested in or even, even thought that
we should be doing, uh, the idea of planting a church in my mind.
There was enough church plants already or enough churches already, but
come to find out there's really not.
Um, and we're kind of working in the negative because.
There's a lot of churches that are declining or have declined or
have died, closed, you know, being sold to a chiropractor or, you
know, for an office or whatever.
There's, uh, and so we, we need more churches.
And, and so that, that, uh, you know, there wasn't a traumatic
experience planning a church.
It was a great experience, but it taught me a lot.
And, um, And, and I've met a lot of people through it and, and learned a lot about
processes and systems and structures.
That's been really helpful for me, even now, as a pastor, um, my wife
and I had had two miscarriages a couple of years ago, and that was,
uh, several, several events or several factors involved in that whole story.
Yeah, that, that showed me God's love and God's care, um, and some
people that were in our life.
And so, like I said, I think there's probably a lot of little things that, um,
that have been really helpful, you know, and, and there's things along the way
that maybe as I, as I got into adulthood, especially into my thirties, And I began
to discover about human nature, discover about, um, you know, sin in the world,
like the reality of the world that we live in, that some people just straight lie.
Uh, you know, I had to learn that kind of the hard way that
not everybody tells the truth.
Um, and, and there's, uh, and some people even, they believe the lies
that they're, that they're saying.
They don't even know they're lying, they believe it.
And, uh, yeah, so there's probably just a whole long list of little things.
Can't really think of anything else major at this moment.
What advice would you have for somebody out there listening,
whether they're already a Christian, anybody, any human being on the face
of the planet, what kind of wisdom would you have to pass on to them?
Well, there's probably a list of 20 things I could say.
One thing is, it is very healthy to recognize that not only am I not
perfect, neither is anybody else.
My parents, whether they did the best they could, they were far from
perfect, and neither were their parents.
And so all of us are starting off very imperfect and really
starting in the negative.
Our only hope of getting through this life in a healthy way and living an
abundant life like scripture says we can, our only hope is through Christ.
And the things that he's already set up for us.
So, being part of a healthy church, reading scripture daily, praying to
God, uh, putting in healthy spiritual disciplines, even fasting, meditating,
walking, praying, um, those are the things that God's set up for us in scripture.
And the only reason I know those things is from reading scripture.
And the only reason any of us would know any of them is from reading scripture.
And, and so, yeah, recognizing that none of us are perfect, And
then the second thing I'll say is because none of us are perfect.
I, I, who have been given a immeasurable riches of grace, also
have a responsibility to give others an immeasurable amount of grace to forgive
them over and over for the same thing.
Uh, whether or not I continue to put myself in a hurtful situation is, it's not
what I'm saying, but forgiving and giving grace to others is what I'm called to do.
And it's.
It's amazing to me how easy it is for me and all of us to give
ourselves grace for something that we are very critical to others about.
So if somebody cuts us off in traffic and we're upset with them, but if we
cut somebody off in traffic, we have an excuse why, uh, you know, we weren't
paying attention or the sun was in our eyes or the kid was screaming in the
back or, but they better not cut us off.
And so, yeah, be give grace freely and quickly and easily.
And so that's the second thing I'd say.
Third thing I would say, I guess I've kind of already mentioned, is God has
given us his word for a reason, and he has a life that he wants us to live.
It's not going to be a life that's free of trouble.
It's not going to be always healthy, and wealthy, and prosperous, and perfect.
It's going to be far from that.
In fact, depending on where we are, And the environment that we're
in, it may be a very difficult life, maybe a traumatic life.
We may have to deal with persecution like some brothers and sisters in
that I know in Pakistan that I mean, they have to every day of their life,
they have to deal with persecution.
So it may be a difficult life, but it can still be an abundant life spiritually.
According to Ephesians one, you know, every spiritual blessing in Christ
Jesus, but we can only find that through a growing healthy relationship
with Christ, which only comes through spending time in his word.
It does not come through following my religious traditions or my own thoughts
or feelings, especially not my feelings.
My feelings.
Will lie to me every day.
Um, I might feel depressed and simply, uh, come to find out it's cold outside
or I'm hungry, or I didn't sleep well enough or feelings are the, are the
biggest liars, so maybe that's the next, next piece of advice I'd give is don't
follow your feelings, follow truth and your feelings will follow eventually.
But follow truth.
Yeah.
And, and then if somebody is a, uh, is a Christian, and they
are growing in their faith.
Then I would say my advice for them would be find somebody to learn from,
find somebody that's, that's in front of you to learn from, find somebody
that is along the same lines as you to, to live life with or learn with.
Uh, and then find somebody that's behind you spiritually for you to disciple.
Each of those, each of those directions forward with, and then behind
having those in our life, people in our life that, that fit each of
those categories will help us grow.
Uh, you know, off the charts, especially having somebody behind me that I'm
mentoring or that I'm teaching or that I'm leading in a small group or
I'm meeting for coffee, just having that person looking up to me as an
example is going to be very helpful.
And then if somebody is interested in, um, in being a leader,
there's, uh, that's something I've probably spent most of my ministry.
learning about and then even training others.
And I'd love to talk to somebody about, about how they can develop as a leader.
Um, and that's kind of one of my dreams in life is to be in a position where
I'm doing that a lot more than I am right now, just developing, either
developing other leaders or helping churches develop leaders in their church.
Uh, and so find opportunities to lead, be faithful with
what you have, where you are.
With the people you, you're with, and then just allow God to bless you with more.
Allow God to give you an increase, uh, from there, if that's His will.
Um, and if somebody's interested in planting a church, man, we need them.
So, talk, talk to somebody about doing it.
All right.
Man, that was great.
I'm sure we all needed to hear that.
Uh, so, uh, anything else you want to add?
And if, uh, if so, feel free.
If not, I'd like for you to pray for the listeners.
There's somebody that might be listening to this in the year 2037, and they're lost
and wondering what to do, and they stumble across this podcast, and they hear you.
Who knows who's going to ever hear this, and how God's going to use
it, but would you pray for our listeners before we wrap things up?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, Father, thank you for an opportunity to talk about your goodness and just to
share testimony of how you work in our life, uh, and how you're a very present
help that you're not a God who just, uh, sets things in motion and then walks away
or even saves us and then walks away.
Lord, you're with us every step of the way.
We're very grateful for that.
Thank you also that you love us so much.
That even when we sin or when our lives are headed in a wrong direction, falling
into temptation, that you are there to discipline us and chastise us just like
a loving father should do and will do.
And so we're grateful.
I pray that we, um, that we will learn to listen to your Holy Spirit
more and more, and that we will learn to love your word that's been
written out for us more and more.
And through those things, as we read your word, as we listen to
your Holy Spirit, Lord, we know that you're going to guide us to truth.
We know that you are going to lead us to good things, to spiritual
health, to leading others.
Uh, we know that you're going to lead us to an abundant life that is, uh, that is
really the kind of life we're meant for.
And thank you for Jesus.
Thank you that he died on the cross for our sins and rose again to give
us life and that we can be saved and we can have a home with you one day.
We love you in Jesus name.
Amen.
Thank you, Robert.
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
I know it's going to be a blessing.
It already is a blessing to me.
Absolutely.
Well, thank you, Jesse.
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