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Welcome everyone to Faith
and Purpose podcast.

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Each episode of this podcast contains the
personal testimony of an ordinary person

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transformed by an extraordinary God.

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My name is Caitlin and I'm
here to introduce this podcast

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for my friend Jesse Duke.

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Jesse is a husband, father, author,
life recovery guide, lay counselor,

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and small group leader, but his
most important role is disciple.

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As a disciple of Jesus.

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Jesse created this podcast to help other
believers tell their faith stories.

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We'll be hearing the personal
testimonies of all sorts of people

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who have one thing in common,
Jesus has transformed their lives.

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Jesus used parables because he created
us to learn best through story.

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And as we listen to how God has worked
in others lives, we find encouragement

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and inspiration for our own faith walk.

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Whether you are already a believer, or
just a curious seeker, we believe that

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as you listen to these stories, you will
be encouraged on your own faith journey.

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We are sure that God can speak to you
through one of these episodes, and that

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you will see that our Heavenly Father
truly works all things together for

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our good, When we simply love and trust
him if you are currently going through

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a trial We believe that you will come
to see that your troubles Heartbreaks

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and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.

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Here's Jesse with today's guest

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Welcome to Faith and Purpose podcast.

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Today, I'm honored to have my friend and
brother in Christ, Robert Hampshire to

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tell his story, Robert is the Worship
and Discipleship Pastor at Sherald First

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Baptist Church in Sherald, South Carolina.

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He's an awesome worship leader
and a great communicator.

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Welcome, Robert.

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Thank you for being
here to tell your story.

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Thanks, Jesse.

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So, Robert, I know you've been walking
with the Lord for a long time, and you've

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been in ministry for a long time, so,
uh, I know there's no way you can tell

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your whole life story in an hour or so.

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But I appreciate you being here.

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Just give us some highlights of
how the Lord has shown up in your

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life and feel free to just talk
about whatever comes to mind.

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And I may ask some
questions along the way.

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So go right ahead.

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So I was born in Northern Ohio,
a small farming poor town.

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And, uh, I like to, like to tell people
I grew up in a single wide trailer.

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I didn't grow up in it, but I.

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My, my first few years, maybe first
five years was in a single wide trailer

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in the trailer park and we didn't have
much, but, uh, you know, my, my dad was

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just kind of a working in a, working in
an industry and my mom stayed at home.

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And then, uh, we left there when I
was five, my dad, dad was chasing a,

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uh, kind of a next step in his career.

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Uh, and, and that wasn't
completely his choice.

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The company that my dad worked with.

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Tanked and a lot of people lost a lot of
money and it was really bad situation.

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So they said, we're going to get out
of here and get out of Northern Ohio.

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There's nothing here for us.

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And so with, uh, because of God's
providence, we ended up moving

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to a place in Georgia for a
year, which didn't, didn't work

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out quite like he hoped either.

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And then we moved to the
upstate of South Carolina.

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Uh, and then I was in first grade.

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I remember I showed up to first
grade about two weeks late.

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And so that was, that was tough.

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Not only because I was a Northerner, so
I was called a Yankee and city slicker.

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I remember people, and I didn't even
know what either of those terms meant.

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You know, I just knew I talked different
than, uh, than the people in small, rural,

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uh, small town, rural South Carolina.

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But, uh, but I also.

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I felt like I had no friends because,
you know, I showed up two weeks

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late into the start of school,
everybody already knew each other

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and, or they were already from there.

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And so that, that was actually pretty
helpful for me in, I guess, maybe

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developing, uh, Maybe some more confidence
later on in life about who I was and how

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to make friends and that kind of thing.

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But, uh, so I stayed in South
Carolina upstate is a town called

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Chesney, actually, from first grade
through senior in high school.

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And so elementary, middle high school,
when I graduated high school, I

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went to North Greenville university.

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And spent, uh, I, I crammed a four year
degree into five years, which was, uh,

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you know, pretty impressive, I think,
and then ended up, uh, I stayed around

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Greenville for about another year, got
married, met my wife in, uh, around the

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area, she didn't go to the same school,
but we had mutual friends and actually

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some of my mutual friends ended up being
her family, her, her family members.

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So then we moved to Virginia where I.

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I served as an intern at a church for
a couple of years, and that developed

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into something else, which developed
into something else, and I became a

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family pastor, and then a church plant
pastor, planted a church, and that

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went as well as I could have imagined,
and God called us away from there.

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And so now we live back in South
Carolina, a completely different

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part of the state, but, uh, it was,
it was just where God moved us and

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some things fell, fell into my lap.

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And again, we'd call
that God's providence.

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And I serve at a church now
in Sterol, South Carolina.

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As a, uh, as one of the pastors on staff.

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Let me go back to, uh, North Greenville.

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So you managed to cram
four years into five.

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So what was your degree in?

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Well, I started off with radio
broadcasting and I don't remember

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exactly why, but that, that probably
isn't the most promising career choice.

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Uh, so I switched to psychology.

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However, the, I got saved when I was
in fifth grade and pretty soon after

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that, God laid on my heart, a desire to
preach or a calling to preach back then.

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That's the only term I knew, uh,
what to use a call to preach and,

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but a, a call to vocational ministry.

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And so I was, I was really pursuing
that in one way or another.

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But I was, uh, encouraged by
another pastor at the church that

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I had been saved in and that my
parents got saved in because we

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got, got saved around the same time.

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Um, I was encouraged to pursue a trade,
not to pursue a ministry degree so that,

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you know, cause the idea was all you need
is the Bible and, uh, if God wants you

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to be a pastor, he'll give you a church.

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But that church may kick you out.

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So if that keeps you up, then you're
going to need a trade to fall back on too.

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And I understand why he gave that advice.

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I don't necessarily think that was
the best advice I could have been

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given, but I followed it nonetheless.

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And so that's why I hit it
in the radio broadcasting.

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And then, cause I really, I mean,
to be honest, I had no idea what

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else I would do other than pastor,
but I was supposed to get a trade.

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So I did that.

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And then I moved in psychology
thinking, you know, Christian

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counseling would be a helpful trade.

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And they say everybody who gets into
Uh, gets a degree in psychology, which

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is what I ended up graduating with.

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Everybody who goes that route is
a little crazy and they're just

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trying to figure themselves out.

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So, uh, so that very well may be true,
but that's what I ended up graduating

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with the, the psychology degree.

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Well, can we go back to when you got saved
and can you tell us how that came about?

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And, and then how did you perceive
God's calling on your life?

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Yeah.

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You said that happened at a young age.

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It did.

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I would have been, you know, so got saved
in fifth grade and then it would have

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been, uh, as a, as a preteen or early
teenage years that, uh, since God's

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calling for, for, uh, pastoral ministry.

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But so my family were not.

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Or my family was not a Christian family.

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We had, uh, we didn't go to church.

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We, I didn't know the name of Jesus
previous to maybe fourth grade.

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And we, I had been to a
couple of churches up in.

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Ohio is my, like my grandparents church,
but, uh, uh, with the risk of being

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too judgmental, it seemed like that
was more of a, just kind of a club,

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kind of a country club for mostly
elderly, a handful of elderly people.

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And, uh, and, and I'd only gone there
maybe twice that I, that I can recall.

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And so when we moved to South Carolina.

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Yeah, my parents weren't Christians.

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Uh, me and my two brothers
were not Christians.

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And so we were just living a
normal life, I guess, you know,

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normal American non Christian life.

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And, and we didn't even have the
Southern Bible Belt mentality because

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that's not where we were from.

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And so I knew, knew nothing of
the church and the Bible, Jesus.

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But I do remember seeing a leather, a
black leather bound book on my, on my

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parents coffee table when I was a kid.

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And this would have been Third, fourth
grade or so, um, and for whatever

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reason it was on the coffee table.

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I'm not sure because I don't
remember the timeline, but I remember

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asking my dad, what is this book?

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Because you just don't see
leather bound books too often.

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And he explained to me something.

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I don't, I don't remember what
he explained, but I didn't

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understand whatever it was.

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And come to find out
again, that was a Bible.

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And, uh, and then I, I would find out
several years later, it kind of came

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back to my mind several years later.

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Oh yeah.

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I remember when I, what that
book was and it was a Bible.

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And so what was happening in my family's
life at that time, though, at least

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I know this reason why it was on the
coffee table was because God was.

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pursuing my dad and was, God had sent
a couple people to our house that

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were, that were part of this church.

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They were just on this random kind of
cold call house to house visitation,

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which doesn't happen too much anymore.

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But, um, cause people aren't
home as much as they used to be.

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But they just randomly stopped
by the house, talked to my dad.

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And for whatever reason, God had
began to open his heart at that time.

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And so he was willing
to listen to the gospel.

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Whereas before that, he was, he was
never really willing to listen to it,

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you know, for the many years before
that, uh, that he had heard the gospel.

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And so after, I think three
visits is, is his story after

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three visits of these guys.

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Um, he ended up praying and getting
saved and I remember it was, I stepped

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downstairs from our, uh, my bedroom
was upstairs and I was, I stepped

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downstairs and I was kind of peeking
around the corner and I saw my dad

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with these guys and he was kneeling
down on the living room floor.

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We had this nasty green shag carpet
and he was kneeling down to the floor.

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And he was crying and I've never
seen my dad cry and, uh, never seen

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him kneel down like that either.

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It was really weird.

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And so I didn't know what was going on
and, uh, thought it was kind of odd and

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come to find out he'd got saved that day.

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You know, the next Sunday,
our family was in church.

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My mom ends up getting saved.

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My brothers got saved.

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And then, um, and I
was still pretty young.

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So when, when I was, uh, in third
or fourth grade, it had to have

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been third grade, I remember
being at a revival service.

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So this was.

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Uh, early on when we first started
going to the church and our church

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had a lot of revival services.

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So I remember going to it.

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I, I had no clue what was going on
and what was being talked about.

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It wasn't really paying attention, but
the, the, the traveling evangelist or

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preacher or whatever he was for the
revival, he, uh, as an illustration, he

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had a couple guys bind me in thinking.

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It was, it was either a
thick rope or it was chains.

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I can't remember what it was.

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Chains make a better story, so
we'll say that's what it was.

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And so they bound me in chains
and they carried me down the aisle

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of the church, real small church,
to the double swinging doors.

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And that was, it was an illustration
as if the angels were throwing

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somebody into the lake of fire.

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And, you know, so . So I like to
say I had to get saved after that.

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I didn't have a choice, you know, , it
was, uh, I, I was human, so I, I had to

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be moved by that kind of illustration.

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But again, I, I had no
idea what that meant.

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Um, I wasn't, I hadn't even
really been paying attention.

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So I said I got saved
at that, at that moment.

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But it wasn't until, uh, fifth grade
that I really began to realize I was

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a sinner and that I needed saving.

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And that I'm, that Jesus
was the only savior.

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And so, um, so the Holy Spirit
convicted me of my sin, like I

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said, when I was in fifth grade.

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And, uh, then I think it was maybe just
kind of in a normal, normal service.

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And, and I remember really
being convicted of my sin.

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I was at home.

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I was actually at home by myself one day.

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I remember that.

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And I was sitting outside,
uh, on the, uh, front steps.

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And again, God convicted my, God
convicted my sin and I didn't

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know what to do with that.

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So that following Sunday is when I
actually, uh, kind of came forward,

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talked to somebody and got saved.

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And then, and then in that church,
one of the, probably the best things

00:14:30.985 --> 00:14:34.745
about that church, I guess, was
that they talked about the call to

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ministry or the call to pastor a lot.

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And, you know, most churches probably
don't talk about it too much.

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And so the downside of that, I guess,
was that there were several other

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men in the church that also said
God had called them to be a pastor.

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And, you know, that may not
have actually been the case.

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It was almost like that you, if
you're a good Christian man, you're

00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:01.710
going to be called to be a pastor.

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You know, it's like, uh,
that, that was the next step.

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And so some of them, I think, felt
the, maybe the, the influence.

00:15:11.735 --> 00:15:15.385
to, to do that and to step forward
and to tell the church they're

00:15:15.385 --> 00:15:18.815
called to be a pastor, when maybe
God really hadn't because they didn't

00:15:18.815 --> 00:15:20.625
want to be a second class Christian.

00:15:21.125 --> 00:15:26.375
Well, nevertheless, God used
that to, uh, to convict me.

00:15:26.385 --> 00:15:29.020
And I remember I was, I was listening.

00:15:29.030 --> 00:15:32.590
It was a period of time, short period
of time, but I remember hearing sermons

00:15:32.590 --> 00:15:36.210
and I remember reading scripture and
it was, I mean, it was just this heavy

00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:42.220
burden on me that basically Holy Spirit
saying, that's what you need to be doing.

00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:43.950
Or that's what I'm calling you to do.

00:15:44.470 --> 00:15:47.950
And, and I could just really see
myself up there, you know, in front

00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:53.350
of a congregation, preach and teaching
and, and it just made total sense.

00:15:53.670 --> 00:15:56.950
And so God placed in
me a desire to do that.

00:15:57.795 --> 00:16:02.625
Years later, I would read 1st Timothy
3 where it says if anyone aspires to

00:16:02.845 --> 00:16:07.675
the office of a bishop or overseer,
pastor, elder, then they desire a good

00:16:07.675 --> 00:16:09.545
thing or they aspire to a good thing.

00:16:09.965 --> 00:16:14.415
And so that's, that's what God put
in my heart when I was a teenager

00:16:14.415 --> 00:16:16.345
was that aspiration or that desire.

00:16:16.955 --> 00:16:20.345
And, and then thing after thing
after thing really confirmed that.

00:16:20.685 --> 00:16:24.375
And I started preaching when I
was in, I guess, high school.

00:16:24.780 --> 00:16:25.650
Maybe even middle school.

00:16:25.650 --> 00:16:26.310
I can't remember.

00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:29.010
Um, you know, might've been
my first actual sermon, which

00:16:29.010 --> 00:16:29.960
was horrible, of course.

00:16:29.980 --> 00:16:32.590
And I worked really hard on it, but
it only lasted about five minutes.

00:16:33.290 --> 00:16:38.750
And, uh, may or may not have been a
sacrilegious, whatever, but, uh, but

00:16:38.750 --> 00:16:43.280
anyways, and then, and then God confirmed
that through the years and started

00:16:43.310 --> 00:16:44.950
doing some things more in high school.

00:16:45.610 --> 00:16:47.390
And, uh, I got some
more stories about that.

00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:50.600
Even, uh, I preached on a street
corner in that town for about.

00:16:51.410 --> 00:16:54.460
And probably six years, most
every Sunday for about six years.

00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:00.440
That may be, uh, exaggeration, but
Well, tell us about that, because

00:17:00.620 --> 00:17:04.640
this is, uh, not many people were
going to do that kind of thing.

00:17:04.850 --> 00:17:05.890
What was that like?

00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.750
Yeah, well, again, the, the church I was
part of, uh, if you're a man, if you're

00:17:10.750 --> 00:17:15.850
a Christian man, then the, the next
step, you know, if you, if you're really

00:17:15.850 --> 00:17:18.490
spiritual, would be preaching, pastoring.

00:17:19.350 --> 00:17:21.720
Um, I guess they would just call
it preaching back then, you know,

00:17:21.730 --> 00:17:23.660
be an evangelist, be a missionary.

00:17:25.510 --> 00:17:27.090
be a teacher in some capacity.

00:17:27.910 --> 00:17:33.630
So one of the outlets of that was
our church had a what they call a

00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:35.780
street street preaching ministry.

00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:42.180
And so there was a corner
in, uh, at an intersection.

00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:48.680
in that town of Chesney that we would go
to every Sunday afternoon at three or four

00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:56.860
o'clock and there would sometimes be 50
of us, maybe more, and all the men wore

00:17:57.010 --> 00:18:00.920
suits in that church and all the women
wore dresses, so I'm sure it was quite a

00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:07.100
sight to see and, uh, and back then, um,
street preaching was probably a little

00:18:07.100 --> 00:18:13.830
bit more, uh, common in the late 1990s.

00:18:14.495 --> 00:18:15.935
the late 20th century.

00:18:16.595 --> 00:18:21.635
And you know, it wasn't as common
as maybe as it had been, but at that

00:18:21.635 --> 00:18:23.445
time it was still, you still saw it.

00:18:24.315 --> 00:18:25.705
And so that's what our church was doing.

00:18:25.715 --> 00:18:27.975
And we thought the pastor
thought maybe that was the

00:18:27.975 --> 00:18:30.625
best approach to reach people.

00:18:30.855 --> 00:18:35.955
And, uh, so sometimes there might be
10, 20 preachers and then their families

00:18:35.955 --> 00:18:39.285
and their kids, and we'd have signs
and we'd have banners and we'd have

00:18:40.305 --> 00:18:45.015
PVC pipe, uh, structured signs printed.

00:18:45.560 --> 00:18:48.840
I mean, things like repent or perish,
turn or burn, you know, those,

00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:50.630
those kinds of stereotypical things.

00:18:50.630 --> 00:18:51.370
That was our church.

00:18:52.470 --> 00:18:55.500
And, uh, so we, that's what we did.

00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:58.750
And so, because I was called to preach,
that's what I started doing too.

00:18:59.050 --> 00:19:02.330
And so all through high school
and then into college a little

00:19:02.330 --> 00:19:06.570
bit, uh, Sunday afternoon, that's
where I was on that street corner.

00:19:06.790 --> 00:19:10.670
And, uh, we ended up moving
from, from one street corner to.

00:19:11.260 --> 00:19:14.590
Another street corner, same
intersection, but I think we

00:19:14.590 --> 00:19:15.990
got kicked off that sidewalk.

00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.020
So we, we moved to another street corner.

00:19:18.590 --> 00:19:20.830
And then for whatever reason,
that stopped working out.

00:19:20.830 --> 00:19:22.230
Maybe we got kicked off that property.

00:19:22.230 --> 00:19:25.380
So we moved across the street to a
vacant lot to that street corner.

00:19:26.070 --> 00:19:27.920
So we just kind of moved
around the whole street corner.

00:19:28.370 --> 00:19:32.980
But what was interesting is that
that intersection, what, or that

00:19:32.980 --> 00:19:36.500
town, that road, There was a
lot of cruising, they called it.

00:19:36.800 --> 00:19:40.720
So, I mean, there would be hundreds
of cars, maybe thousands of cars on

00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.870
a Sunday afternoon that would pass
through and they would, they would

00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:47.370
drive down, make this loop down at the
elementary school, drive back to the

00:19:47.370 --> 00:19:51.340
high school, make a loop and, and all
day Sunday, that's what they were doing.

00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.750
And, uh, so you could say we had an
audience, I guess, to some extent, but,

00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.600
but I was, you know, I was in high school
now and I was at the public high school.

00:20:02.010 --> 00:20:04.010
And so people would see me out there.

00:20:04.560 --> 00:20:08.440
And, uh, and then I started playing
football for the high school, which just

00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:13.350
be honest was really one of the things
that God used to, I would say change

00:20:13.350 --> 00:20:18.490
my life and make me even help me become
who I am today was high school football

00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:20.670
as maybe silly as that might sound.

00:20:21.710 --> 00:20:25.580
Um, but, and so I would see my
foot, my football friends and

00:20:25.580 --> 00:20:28.790
they were cruising down the street
and, you know, they didn't, they

00:20:28.790 --> 00:20:29.760
didn't know what to make of it.

00:20:29.770 --> 00:20:32.110
And I didn't know what to make of it,
but that's what we were supposed to do.

00:20:32.990 --> 00:20:37.270
And, um, it was interesting because
I don't know how much fruit,

00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:40.960
spiritual fruit, came from that
ministry, the street preaching.

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.610
But again, I was just trying to be
faithful to do what I was supposed to do.

00:20:44.470 --> 00:20:45.960
And I know a lot of other people were too.

00:20:46.320 --> 00:20:49.630
And we were just hoping, you know,
God's Word wouldn't return void.

00:20:50.110 --> 00:20:53.590
And, uh, and I think probably there
were some people that were touched.

00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:54.690
We just didn't hear about it.

00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.330
It took root in you anyway.

00:20:58.450 --> 00:20:59.310
It sure did, yeah.

00:20:59.370 --> 00:21:00.450
Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:00.780 --> 00:21:01.930
Well, tell me about this.

00:21:01.970 --> 00:21:04.990
High school football had
a big influence on you.

00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:05.690
How was that?

00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:07.270
How did that come about?

00:21:08.290 --> 00:21:13.690
Yeah, so there was really, say, several
aspects of it, and I probably should,

00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:15.940
um, should spend some more time thinking.

00:21:16.340 --> 00:21:19.110
It's a statement I've made before, but
I haven't really spent a whole lot of

00:21:19.110 --> 00:21:21.560
time writing down my thoughts about that.

00:21:22.450 --> 00:21:24.510
But, um, so I probably should.

00:21:25.430 --> 00:21:33.295
But one aspect was I found some friends
and previous to high school, uh, because

00:21:33.295 --> 00:21:36.735
my family wasn't really well connected
with any other families in the town,

00:21:37.205 --> 00:21:40.955
except for a couple of families in the
church, which didn't have any teenagers,

00:21:41.455 --> 00:21:44.375
didn't really have too many friends.

00:21:44.755 --> 00:21:47.655
Uh, and I didn't really know
how to be a friend, just to be

00:21:47.765 --> 00:21:48.695
honest, especially the guys.

00:21:49.215 --> 00:21:53.695
just didn't, uh, my dad and I didn't
have the best of relationships.

00:21:53.695 --> 00:21:56.215
And so I'd really been having
good friend friendships with other

00:21:56.215 --> 00:21:57.385
guys and that would come later.

00:21:57.525 --> 00:21:58.645
But football gave me that.

00:21:58.655 --> 00:21:59.325
So that was good.

00:21:59.825 --> 00:22:04.155
Football gave me the, you know, the
community, the camaraderie of a team,

00:22:04.555 --> 00:22:07.185
um, and the team sport aspect of it.

00:22:07.415 --> 00:22:10.935
You know, we're working on, on
a, a project together, you know,

00:22:10.935 --> 00:22:12.085
trying to win a football game.

00:22:12.605 --> 00:22:14.515
So all that was really beneficial to me.

00:22:14.865 --> 00:22:18.355
Uh, and, and I think you would probably
get it in other sports as well.

00:22:18.925 --> 00:22:28.215
Few sports are as aggressive and,
uh, and emotional as football because

00:22:28.215 --> 00:22:34.485
of, because of the impact, you know,
it's an impact sport and, um, and so

00:22:34.485 --> 00:22:39.515
you, you really have to, you really
have to push yourself again, other,

00:22:39.645 --> 00:22:41.275
I'm sure other sports have a similar.

00:22:41.695 --> 00:22:42.795
Similar aspect to it.

00:22:42.795 --> 00:22:46.785
But, but in football, you know, because
of just the violence of it, I would

00:22:46.785 --> 00:22:50.305
imagine it's more like military than
any other sport, just because of

00:22:50.305 --> 00:22:55.105
the violence, um, which for me was,
was a really good thing because I,

00:22:55.185 --> 00:22:56.675
I just never been pushed like that.

00:22:56.705 --> 00:23:00.415
Never had to exert that much
energy, never had to hit somebody.

00:23:00.865 --> 00:23:05.165
And so all of that was, was really good
for me and just kind of developed some

00:23:05.365 --> 00:23:07.725
healthy aggression, maybe that doesn't.

00:23:08.075 --> 00:23:12.175
Maybe it doesn't develop healthy in
everybody, but it was good for me.

00:23:12.975 --> 00:23:17.625
And so I developed some aggression,
learned how to use, kind of control

00:23:17.625 --> 00:23:19.655
my emotions, even control my anger.

00:23:20.335 --> 00:23:25.135
And because, because anger is a, is
a helpful emotion unless it's not

00:23:25.145 --> 00:23:31.915
controlled, if it's left unbridled
and, and sports helped me develop that.

00:23:32.550 --> 00:23:36.140
Kind of, uh, control or
learning how to channel that.

00:23:37.230 --> 00:23:42.650
And, but then also the physical
aspect of getting in shape.

00:23:43.010 --> 00:23:49.930
So previous to my, the summer before my
ninth grade year, I was the same height.

00:23:50.500 --> 00:23:54.230
I am right now, uh, hit my
growth spurt growth spurt early.

00:23:54.230 --> 00:23:58.140
Um, so around seventh and eighth
grade, I was six, one about two 30.

00:23:59.090 --> 00:24:00.830
So I was a big kid, but.

00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:03.600
I had pretty much no muscle.

00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:05.730
It was, that was just all fat.

00:24:05.820 --> 00:24:07.320
Cause I never really did anything.

00:24:07.320 --> 00:24:11.460
I mean, I just, you know, stayed at
home and played video, video games.

00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:13.830
Well, not video games,
called computer games then.

00:24:14.290 --> 00:24:17.100
Cause we didn't have a, didn't
have a video game system.

00:24:18.030 --> 00:24:19.150
Just really didn't do much.

00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:20.720
I was an artist, I guess.

00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:21.590
That's about all I did.

00:24:22.090 --> 00:24:25.940
And so I started playing football
and started working out, started

00:24:26.060 --> 00:24:28.970
running, started doing pushups,
nothing I've ever done before.

00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:31.200
And so it, it's.

00:24:32.580 --> 00:24:36.370
I developed or discovered in
athleticism that I didn't know.

00:24:37.310 --> 00:24:38.550
So that really gave me a hobby.

00:24:38.550 --> 00:24:39.770
It gave me something to do.

00:24:40.490 --> 00:24:43.220
Um, it gave me some, some
strength that I didn't have,

00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:45.610
which built some confidence in me.

00:24:46.570 --> 00:24:50.040
And so kind of that whole world of, I
guess, what you would hope sports would

00:24:50.040 --> 00:24:52.060
do in somebody is what it did in me.

00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:58.800
And, uh, and so that would then
translate into really the rest of

00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:02.820
my life, staying relatively fit.

00:25:03.290 --> 00:25:07.180
You know, there's, there's times and
seasons where, where especially, you know,

00:25:07.190 --> 00:25:11.290
you get married and have a few little
kids, it's kind of hard to stay relatively

00:25:11.320 --> 00:25:15.510
fit, but, uh, but it gave me enough of a
foundation that I can keep going back to.

00:25:16.260 --> 00:25:19.290
And, um, and that really
characterizes my life now.

00:25:19.300 --> 00:25:24.900
I mean, I'm, I am, I play sports as
often as I can, volleyball and, uh,

00:25:24.910 --> 00:25:30.200
basketball, uh, you know, go for a
run or go for a walk or go to the gym.

00:25:30.705 --> 00:25:33.545
And all that stemmed from,
uh, from high school football.

00:25:35.305 --> 00:25:37.305
So let me ask you another question.

00:25:37.325 --> 00:25:39.475
What'd you do as soon as
you got out of college?

00:25:39.475 --> 00:25:42.925
And you mentioned being
an associate pastor.

00:25:45.805 --> 00:25:47.405
So what year did you graduate?

00:25:48.405 --> 00:25:53.075
Well, I graduated high school in 2002
and then went to college that fall.

00:25:53.325 --> 00:25:58.405
And, and while I was in college,
this was, you know, I say maybe I

00:25:58.405 --> 00:26:02.935
shouldn't have hit it into radio
broadcasting, but what that did for me.

00:26:04.010 --> 00:26:11.410
God, God at work making the best
of a, uh, maybe not wise decision.

00:26:11.470 --> 00:26:14.530
I don't know if it was wise or not,
but you know, looking back, who knows?

00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:15.970
Hindsight is 20, 20.

00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:20.920
But what God did was he used that
radio broadcasting to put me in touch

00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:24.060
with some people, gave me some really
good connections with some people.

00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:28.640
I developed a, uh, I got to use some.

00:26:28.840 --> 00:26:33.480
Broadcasting equipment, which was, was,
would end up being helpful later on, you

00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:38.050
know, audio editing and video editing,
um, which I've done quite a bit of.

00:26:38.790 --> 00:26:43.800
And then kind of learning how to
use some technology, you know, uh,

00:26:43.940 --> 00:26:47.640
that, and that got me interested in
music as well, which I hadn't really

00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.760
been, especially Christian music.

00:26:50.330 --> 00:26:54.750
My understanding of Christian music
was, was very limited because of that.

00:26:55.780 --> 00:27:00.450
Suits on men, dresses on women, street
preaching church that I was part of.

00:27:01.110 --> 00:27:08.650
Uh, you know, music was a, uh,
if it wasn't a piano and organ,

00:27:08.650 --> 00:27:10.780
it wasn't Christian, basically.

00:27:11.450 --> 00:27:16.320
And, and even then, the the selection
of what is that, what passes for

00:27:16.330 --> 00:27:17.630
Christian, still pretty small.

00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:22.950
And, and so radio broadcasting got
me introduced into Christian music,

00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:26.000
which turns out was very useful for me.

00:27:26.740 --> 00:27:34.410
And then it also allowed me to see,
I got to experience some things and

00:27:34.410 --> 00:27:38.840
to see parts of the world that I, I
probably would have never been to because

00:27:38.850 --> 00:27:43.220
through radio broadcasting, I started
and because of football in high school.

00:27:43.625 --> 00:27:47.285
Those kind of came together and I started
broadcasting football games on our

00:27:47.515 --> 00:27:52.385
school radio, uh, did some basketball
games too, but mostly football games.

00:27:53.055 --> 00:27:59.300
And so because of that, Because our
college to, you know, uh, drove to Florida

00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:04.150
to play games or Virginia or West Virginia
or Kentucky, Tennessee, Pennsylvania.

00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:08.150
So I ended up traveling all those
places, saw a lot more of the

00:28:08.150 --> 00:28:09.380
world that I'd never seen before.

00:28:10.110 --> 00:28:15.200
Uh, through that, I ended up going to
flew to California and flew to Nashville.

00:28:15.260 --> 00:28:15.860
And.

00:28:16.695 --> 00:28:21.215
So that, that turned out to be, like
I said, a really good experience that,

00:28:21.255 --> 00:28:23.055
uh, that I wasn't, wasn't expecting.

00:28:23.585 --> 00:28:28.285
But then I, then I graduated with a
psychology degree, but during those

00:28:28.295 --> 00:28:32.705
college years, because I began to
be introduced into Christian music,

00:28:32.705 --> 00:28:38.145
I also was introduced to guitar and
started playing guitar, which was

00:28:38.145 --> 00:28:40.285
not good for the first several years.

00:28:40.285 --> 00:28:40.965
It was very bad.

00:28:40.965 --> 00:28:45.105
Actually, I had, uh, I had zero.

00:28:45.765 --> 00:28:47.385
natural music ability.

00:28:47.625 --> 00:28:50.185
I, I have told people,
and that is very true.

00:28:50.765 --> 00:28:52.565
Uh, you know, no rhythm, no timing.

00:28:52.565 --> 00:28:56.575
I didn't, I didn't understand what music
was about, why music was what it was.

00:28:57.555 --> 00:28:58.575
I knew nothing about it.

00:28:58.635 --> 00:29:00.255
All I could do was sing loudly.

00:29:01.375 --> 00:29:02.435
Uh, not always good.

00:29:02.435 --> 00:29:03.105
It was just loud.

00:29:03.655 --> 00:29:11.025
And so, but God, God used that to, that,
that was really the first time that

00:29:11.025 --> 00:29:13.065
I was kind of on staff of a church.

00:29:13.075 --> 00:29:17.535
It was a small church in, in my
hometown when I was in college.

00:29:17.870 --> 00:29:21.560
That, uh, just friend of a
friend got, got me introduced to.

00:29:21.560 --> 00:29:22.480
And so I started leading.

00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:28.180
music at a church and that ended up
getting me connected with another

00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:32.930
church because somebody, somebody
I was in a band with got connected

00:29:32.930 --> 00:29:37.200
to a church in Simpsonville, South
Carolina, outside of Greenville, where

00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:39.560
I was the worship leader a little bit.

00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:43.210
Kind of, it was a step forward
in a sense, as far as the career

00:29:43.210 --> 00:29:45.470
of, uh, pastoral ministry.

00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:51.330
But I was leading worship there, and then
that got me connected to some people.

00:29:51.330 --> 00:29:57.310
And anyways, it was, you know, kind of
long road from there of multiple different

00:29:57.310 --> 00:30:02.690
positions and different churches that,
uh, God arranged my life to go into.

00:30:04.210 --> 00:30:12.360
So I've seen you play your guitar and
sing and lead worship, and it seems

00:30:12.360 --> 00:30:14.490
like, uh, you're anointed for that.

00:30:15.505 --> 00:30:17.875
I don't know, you say you don't,
you didn't have natural talent,

00:30:17.885 --> 00:30:19.805
you must have supernatural talent.

00:30:20.425 --> 00:30:23.375
So what is that like
for you, playing music?

00:30:25.145 --> 00:30:31.045
Yeah, so, um, what I would, what I
would describe that as now, I didn't

00:30:31.045 --> 00:30:34.305
know the words really at the time,
so I would describe music for me as a

00:30:34.305 --> 00:30:41.795
spiritual gift, meaning it was a gift
given to me after my salvation that,

00:30:42.515 --> 00:30:45.115
uh, that I needed it for a season.

00:30:45.565 --> 00:30:52.565
But there was a ministry that needed to
be led and I happened to be available.

00:30:52.655 --> 00:30:58.265
And so God gave me the gift of
music and then, uh, and had been

00:30:58.265 --> 00:31:00.575
developing in me gifts of leadership.

00:31:01.125 --> 00:31:04.305
And so I had that aspect
already going, but God gave me

00:31:04.305 --> 00:31:06.995
the gift of music and, and it.

00:31:07.485 --> 00:31:15.005
And I, I, I say that also that it was
a gift from God because when I was

00:31:15.015 --> 00:31:19.265
first put into a position of leading
music, again, simply because I could

00:31:19.265 --> 00:31:20.965
sing loudly, that was the only reason.

00:31:21.415 --> 00:31:25.645
And I was told that later on, uh,
well, you could, you know, cause it

00:31:25.665 --> 00:31:28.671
was a small church and they said,
well, if you're going to be here.

00:31:29.465 --> 00:31:31.745
Might as well be up front because
we're going to hear you anyways.

00:31:32.485 --> 00:31:37.975
And, uh, and so I started to sing and
then somebody said, Oh, you play guitar.

00:31:37.975 --> 00:31:41.355
It was like, well, I own a guitar,
but wouldn't say I really play.

00:31:41.755 --> 00:31:44.615
So I started to get into it,
but realized I was so far.

00:31:45.315 --> 00:31:52.765
Uh, all this was so far above my head and
I was, I had no clue what I was doing.

00:31:53.745 --> 00:31:59.125
And so I tried to get into it and I
tried to try to learn some things, but it

00:31:59.125 --> 00:32:01.025
really wasn't clicking very well for me.

00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:05.140
Um, but I remember I was driving down
the road, or riding down the road, I

00:32:05.140 --> 00:32:11.720
wasn't driving, I was with somebody,
and God just gave me an understanding

00:32:11.730 --> 00:32:14.810
about music that I didn't have.

00:32:15.430 --> 00:32:20.100
And he, uh, I like to say he didn't
give me All understandings about music.

00:32:20.180 --> 00:32:21.280
He just gave me enough.

00:32:22.020 --> 00:32:25.670
And so I remember I couldn't wait
until I got back home to my guitar

00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:28.490
to try out what just came to me.

00:32:29.020 --> 00:32:32.180
And, um, and it, things
just started to click.

00:32:32.210 --> 00:32:32.960
It made sense.

00:32:33.560 --> 00:32:39.890
And so I began to really what, what God
gave me was it's called music theory,

00:32:39.890 --> 00:32:45.240
but just kind of the fundamentals of
music, why it works in the way that it

00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:48.370
does and why certain things go together.

00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:49.600
And so.

00:32:50.010 --> 00:32:54.730
That allowed me to start playing guitar,
to lead a band, to lead the congregation

00:32:54.730 --> 00:33:01.940
in worship and, uh, that gave me a little
bit more of a desire to learn music

00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:08.200
and, and learn songs and what songs to
learn, which is what then later on, I

00:33:08.450 --> 00:33:12.890
discovered things like harmonies and,
uh, but it, but it really came from

00:33:12.890 --> 00:33:18.805
that, that day I was riding down the road
and realizing I was I was way too far.

00:33:19.335 --> 00:33:20.795
I just didn't know what I was doing.

00:33:20.935 --> 00:33:21.665
And God gave me that.

00:33:23.215 --> 00:33:27.725
Wow, that's, that's a powerful
example of how God will equip the

00:33:27.725 --> 00:33:31.415
available, the willing and available.

00:33:32.355 --> 00:33:32.885
Absolutely.

00:33:33.325 --> 00:33:37.665
So, Robert, you've been a Christian
for a long time, ever since you

00:33:37.665 --> 00:33:39.425
were about 11 or 12 years old.

00:33:39.425 --> 00:33:41.565
You've been involved
in several ministries.

00:33:42.495 --> 00:33:43.585
You have a family.

00:33:43.795 --> 00:33:45.025
You've had to deal with a lot of things.

00:33:46.205 --> 00:33:47.365
Life along the way.

00:33:47.365 --> 00:33:52.555
Are there any challenges or setbacks
that you'd like to share or anything

00:33:52.555 --> 00:33:53.875
that the Lord has taught you?

00:33:57.185 --> 00:34:04.885
Yeah, you know because I got to see
the Dramatic change in my parents life

00:34:05.985 --> 00:34:14.055
as a kid because when I got saved in
fifth grade there were I don't have

00:34:14.055 --> 00:34:21.995
this long list of sins and life choices
and Divorces, you know, whatever drug

00:34:21.995 --> 00:34:27.305
addictions That I can look back and say,
well, man, look what God saved me from.

00:34:27.885 --> 00:34:27.975
Mm-Hmm.

00:34:27.975 --> 00:34:32.335
You know, I was, uh, I know that I lied.

00:34:32.335 --> 00:34:36.745
I know that I sold, um, at
that point, not even sure if I

00:34:36.750 --> 00:34:38.635
lusted, you know, fifth grade.

00:34:38.640 --> 00:34:42.345
I, I, I don't think I was, I wasn't quite
there yet, that that would come later.

00:34:42.915 --> 00:34:49.215
Um, but because my, my own salvation
story wasn't quite as dramatic, which, you

00:34:49.215 --> 00:34:50.805
know, of course it was, it was a miracle.

00:34:50.805 --> 00:34:54.170
God saved me from hell and took
what was dead and made it alive.

00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.230
But, but I did get to see that in my
parents a lot more, and I get to see

00:34:58.230 --> 00:34:59.640
that in a few other people as well.

00:35:00.500 --> 00:35:04.720
And then also, the church, the
church I was in was very small.

00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:12.840
Uh, I mean this in the, maybe, maybe the
most appropriate way, very narrow minded.

00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:18.100
Uh, I know that phrase could probably be
used to, uh, used in a, in a wrong sense.

00:35:18.120 --> 00:35:22.090
But, um, their understanding,
and my understanding at the time,

00:35:22.240 --> 00:35:24.200
of Christianity was very small.

00:35:24.560 --> 00:35:28.430
You know, almost to the point that if
you weren't part of our church or part

00:35:28.430 --> 00:35:31.540
of our tribe, you probably weren't
going to heaven if you didn't do the

00:35:31.550 --> 00:35:33.830
things we do, think how we think.

00:35:34.630 --> 00:35:46.330
And so I, um, I, when I got to
college, I began to discover a world of

00:35:46.330 --> 00:35:48.080
Christianity that I didn't know existed.

00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:53.590
I discovered denominations of people
that love Jesus more than I did, but

00:35:53.590 --> 00:35:54.850
they weren't the same denomination.

00:35:54.850 --> 00:35:57.790
I discovered that there were other
Bible translations or Bible versions.

00:35:58.875 --> 00:36:01.625
And people read them and preach
from them and led people to Jesus.

00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:05.320
And it wasn't the same as what I used
and what I was taught was always right.

00:36:06.530 --> 00:36:12.010
And then I began to discover that some of
these preachers that I had listened to may

00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:13.590
not have really been preaching scripture.

00:36:13.600 --> 00:36:15.290
That may have been more
preaching their opinion.

00:36:15.890 --> 00:36:19.920
And in some of them, uh,
their opinions were wrong.

00:36:20.590 --> 00:36:23.010
And, and even some of their
lifestyles were wrong.

00:36:23.180 --> 00:36:26.340
And, you know, there was, I
didn't experience any abuse

00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:27.950
myself, but come to find out.

00:36:28.525 --> 00:36:32.745
There were people around me that had
been abused, either spiritual abuse

00:36:32.745 --> 00:36:36.945
or even physical abuse, sexual abuse,
that that was, that was the world

00:36:36.945 --> 00:36:41.225
that that was all around that I just
didn't know, uh, I didn't know existed.

00:36:42.405 --> 00:36:47.975
And so my, I would say my freshman
year of college, I was just hit in

00:36:47.975 --> 00:36:56.025
the face with, with all of these,
with reality, with reality of, uh,

00:36:56.155 --> 00:36:59.055
sin that I didn't know existed with.

00:36:59.615 --> 00:37:02.905
With the reality of, you know,
there's this thing called pornography

00:37:03.235 --> 00:37:04.745
that I didn't really know existed.

00:37:05.305 --> 00:37:09.685
Um, that was, you know, that time internet
was in full swing and people had cell

00:37:09.685 --> 00:37:12.555
phones and, uh, you know, and computers.

00:37:12.555 --> 00:37:18.245
And, and so, you know, I'm beginning
to discover this, there's all this

00:37:18.245 --> 00:37:23.025
temptation at my fingertips, the
Christianity that I thought was.

00:37:23.845 --> 00:37:28.205
Black and white, hard and fast, uh,
isn't quite like that, that there are

00:37:28.205 --> 00:37:32.445
Christians all across the world that
believe slightly differently about certain

00:37:32.455 --> 00:37:36.865
doctrines than I did, that, uh, that
they seem to be right and I was wrong.

00:37:37.025 --> 00:37:41.535
And then these preachers that I
had really thought were, you know,

00:37:41.535 --> 00:37:44.875
God's messengers for the people,
God's prophets for the people.

00:37:45.305 --> 00:37:46.975
They wouldn't have called
themselves prophets, of course,

00:37:46.975 --> 00:37:49.015
but, but that's how I saw them.

00:37:49.615 --> 00:37:52.295
Um, you know, maybe, maybe
they weren't even right.

00:37:53.215 --> 00:37:56.395
Maybe some of them weren't even
Christians, you know, it's just

00:37:56.725 --> 00:37:59.785
so I was really blindsided by
that wasn't prepared for that.

00:38:00.765 --> 00:38:08.995
And, uh, and then it began to, um,
build relationships with, uh, other

00:38:08.995 --> 00:38:13.475
people that some that love Jesus,
some that didn't love Jesus and, you

00:38:13.485 --> 00:38:15.205
know, starting to have girlfriends.

00:38:15.205 --> 00:38:21.020
And, and so, like I said, my
freshman year was, was I just got

00:38:21.020 --> 00:38:22.910
blindsided with a lot of things.

00:38:23.710 --> 00:38:28.450
Um, and then I also began to realize my
relationship with my dad wasn't very good.

00:38:28.670 --> 00:38:30.070
I didn't really know that before.

00:38:30.080 --> 00:38:31.630
He was the only dad I ever had, you know.

00:38:31.750 --> 00:38:32.730
I thought it was normal.

00:38:33.220 --> 00:38:34.930
So I began to realize that.

00:38:35.260 --> 00:38:43.410
Um, and so God in his grace kept me
from straying too far during that time.

00:38:43.420 --> 00:38:46.950
And I'm very thankful for that,
uh, considering all those things.

00:38:47.685 --> 00:38:49.715
that, uh, that I was blindsided with.

00:38:50.045 --> 00:38:56.285
And so, and part of the reason why God
kept me from straying too far was, I

00:38:56.285 --> 00:38:57.605
was just in a really good environment.

00:38:57.985 --> 00:38:59.685
The school I was in was a
really good environment.

00:39:00.245 --> 00:39:03.245
And, and the, some of the people
that God sent into my life

00:39:03.255 --> 00:39:04.395
were just wonderful people.

00:39:05.125 --> 00:39:13.440
And, um, and then of course, that
I, I began to freshman, sophomore

00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:18.050
year, junior year, really start to
find a love for God's word, which

00:39:18.050 --> 00:39:19.120
I'll get back to that in a second.

00:39:20.190 --> 00:39:27.090
But, um, and God gave me wisdom
about some things that certainly

00:39:27.090 --> 00:39:28.260
didn't come from myself.

00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:32.555
And so I began to realize Yeah, maybe
there were a bunch of preachers that

00:39:32.945 --> 00:39:36.375
preached their own opinions that,
that may not have been doing the

00:39:36.375 --> 00:39:37.795
right thing, living the right way.

00:39:38.355 --> 00:39:43.195
Maybe even some of them were, were
racist or, or abusive or whatever.

00:39:43.705 --> 00:39:48.065
But you know, God works in spite of
all of us that it wasn't just them.

00:39:49.315 --> 00:39:53.175
And, and the, the preacher that
preached when I got saved, he was,

00:39:53.415 --> 00:39:57.615
he's a fallen, broken person, just
like I was, or just like I am.

00:39:58.255 --> 00:40:02.715
And he's just as much of a hypocrite as I
would be later on in life too, you know?

00:40:02.715 --> 00:40:06.085
So, so that was helpful that I came
to that realization or God gave me

00:40:06.085 --> 00:40:10.295
that realization that God works in
spite of all of us anyways, um, I

00:40:10.295 --> 00:40:14.845
also began to realize very quickly
that my relationship with my dad.

00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:18.690
Maybe it wasn't ideal, but
you know, he had a lot of

00:40:18.690 --> 00:40:20.590
brokenness in his own childhood.

00:40:21.120 --> 00:40:23.500
And, and his dad was pretty distant.

00:40:23.540 --> 00:40:25.280
His mom was not the best mom.

00:40:25.330 --> 00:40:31.490
And so, you know, his, I, I was.

00:40:32.425 --> 00:40:35.775
Hoping for this picture perfect
relationship that, that he

00:40:35.775 --> 00:40:37.245
wasn't equipped to have himself.

00:40:38.135 --> 00:40:39.275
And so that was helpful.

00:40:39.395 --> 00:40:40.295
You know, I realized that.

00:40:41.405 --> 00:40:45.115
And, um, so that, so God really
met a lot of those things.

00:40:45.115 --> 00:40:50.805
I was blindsided with God was right
there with a person or with a, with a

00:40:50.805 --> 00:40:56.115
scripture or with an understanding and
some wisdom that filled in the gaps.

00:40:56.125 --> 00:40:57.695
And that was, that was very helpful.

00:40:58.745 --> 00:41:04.915
And, uh, then when I, I guess I.

00:41:06.095 --> 00:41:12.615
It's kind of funny when, when I was
a sophomore, that's probably the time

00:41:12.615 --> 00:41:17.995
that sophomore, junior year was probably
the time that I started to stray the

00:41:17.995 --> 00:41:21.795
most, even though I was blindsided with
all those things as a freshman year,

00:41:22.115 --> 00:41:23.775
right in my freshman year of college.

00:41:24.345 --> 00:41:31.125
Um, I maybe I had enough foundation
or, or enough good people around me

00:41:31.665 --> 00:41:34.155
that, that I was able to just keep.

00:41:34.725 --> 00:41:35.725
Keep walking right through it.

00:41:36.435 --> 00:41:38.415
But then I think it was
maybe my junior year.

00:41:39.465 --> 00:41:46.575
Um, I started to get, uh, I,
I, I probably dated more than

00:41:46.575 --> 00:41:48.645
I ever had previous to that.

00:41:48.755 --> 00:41:50.315
And again, it's kind of funny.

00:41:50.365 --> 00:41:52.835
I think maybe when you're
an upperclassman, girls

00:41:52.835 --> 00:41:53.945
pay attention to you more.

00:41:54.275 --> 00:41:58.905
So I started to get attention from
some girls and, um, and so that,

00:41:58.945 --> 00:42:00.395
you know, kind of fed my ego.

00:42:00.395 --> 00:42:03.215
And, and so probably around
those years I started to stray

00:42:03.215 --> 00:42:04.585
the most and it really wasn't.

00:42:05.395 --> 00:42:08.915
I didn't jump off the cliff of, you
know, any kind of spiritual cliff.

00:42:09.585 --> 00:42:15.925
I just really started to get apathetic
of, uh, of my spiritual walk and

00:42:15.925 --> 00:42:17.875
my faith and my Bible reading.

00:42:18.545 --> 00:42:23.225
And then I appreciated other
people's attention, especially

00:42:23.225 --> 00:42:24.715
girls a little bit too much.

00:42:25.345 --> 00:42:29.165
And so I, I remember one girl in
particular that I'd started dating.

00:42:30.305 --> 00:42:31.005
I mean, she just.

00:42:31.405 --> 00:42:36.085
She, she talked me up, you know, laughed
at my jokes and, uh, just thought I was

00:42:36.085 --> 00:42:39.815
great, or at least she said she thought
I was, you know, just the next best thing

00:42:39.885 --> 00:42:45.625
since sliced bread and, and that got
to me and that, you know, fed my pride.

00:42:45.635 --> 00:42:50.255
And so I just let my Christianity
really take a backseat and it

00:42:50.265 --> 00:42:51.305
was a short amount of time.

00:42:51.305 --> 00:42:54.815
I would say it was probably four
or six months, but during that

00:42:54.815 --> 00:42:59.985
time, um, because because my
faith took a backseat because my.

00:43:00.430 --> 00:43:05.190
Um, I just started putting way too much
thoughts and time into this relationship

00:43:05.220 --> 00:43:09.310
with a girl who claimed to be a
Christian, but certainly wasn't living

00:43:09.310 --> 00:43:11.510
that, wasn't living a Christian life.

00:43:12.260 --> 00:43:16.480
And it got to the point where I
started to, I started to think, man,

00:43:17.870 --> 00:43:23.510
if I stay with this girl, I'm, my
life is going to be much different.

00:43:23.660 --> 00:43:26.130
I'm not going to, like, I'm
not going to become a pastor.

00:43:26.270 --> 00:43:29.000
If, if I have a relationship
with this girl, it's, we're not

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:29.980
going to live a Christian life.

00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:36.745
And, and, And that relationship
was really, it was, I wouldn't say

00:43:36.745 --> 00:43:40.305
it was destructive, but for me, it
was not headed in a good direction.

00:43:41.295 --> 00:43:45.195
And, and I remember it was Christmas
morning when I was 20 years old.

00:43:45.195 --> 00:43:48.905
So again, I would, I think I would've
been a junior in college, um, Christmas

00:43:48.915 --> 00:43:56.685
morning, you know, Christmas break, I'm,
um, I'm home and I see, I wake up in the

00:43:56.685 --> 00:43:59.615
morning and I see some spots on my face.

00:44:00.105 --> 00:44:01.885
And my tongue, I was brushing my teeth.

00:44:01.885 --> 00:44:03.185
I see these spots on my tongue.

00:44:03.255 --> 00:44:04.635
I'm like, what, what is, what is this?

00:44:05.185 --> 00:44:07.615
And so, and so then I started
looking at spots all over my body.

00:44:08.745 --> 00:44:12.655
Purple spots, what, uh, come to
find out what called purpura, you

00:44:12.655 --> 00:44:13.745
know, blood coming to the surface.

00:44:14.645 --> 00:44:18.805
And so I went and showed
my dad and, uh, he.

00:44:19.210 --> 00:44:21.860
He got a little paranoid, of course.

00:44:22.040 --> 00:44:25.190
And so we went to the emergency
room and I sat in the emergency

00:44:25.230 --> 00:44:27.190
room for an hour, Christmas morning.

00:44:27.890 --> 00:44:30.770
And then I ended up being
taken to the hospital.

00:44:30.770 --> 00:44:34.690
They're running all these tests
and no idea what's going on.

00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:36.910
You know, they see that
there's, there's an issue.

00:44:37.450 --> 00:44:41.860
And so they, they come up with this
word idiopathic, which means we don't

00:44:41.860 --> 00:44:44.560
know what's going on, but it's an issue.

00:44:44.740 --> 00:44:49.030
And so, um, so the diagnosis
that eventually is ITP.

00:44:49.285 --> 00:44:56.025
idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, which
means we don't know why, but you have

00:44:56.025 --> 00:44:57.465
a, you have some kind of blood issue.

00:44:58.245 --> 00:45:02.435
And so I think I was maybe after about
day five of being in the hospital,

00:45:02.545 --> 00:45:04.465
all these tests, nobody has a clue.

00:45:05.775 --> 00:45:10.235
Um, and they're putting me on
antibiotics or maybe it was

00:45:10.235 --> 00:45:12.095
antibiotics, but put me on steroids.

00:45:12.235 --> 00:45:12.495
I remember.

00:45:13.855 --> 00:45:18.215
And, but during that time, I
would say I felt God's love.

00:45:19.205 --> 00:45:22.545
I felt his, I felt his love
more than ever in my life.

00:45:22.995 --> 00:45:29.805
because I recognized what was
happening was, uh, God chastising me.

00:45:29.895 --> 00:45:36.175
He was, he was disciplining me, um,
for the, for the life that I was living

00:45:36.175 --> 00:45:37.915
and the direction I was headed on.

00:45:39.425 --> 00:45:43.905
And so, you know, like I said,
I really saw that as God's like,

00:45:43.915 --> 00:45:50.475
God loved me so much that he was
willing to step in and stop me and

00:45:50.485 --> 00:45:52.405
give me an opportunity to repent.

00:45:53.255 --> 00:45:54.695
And, uh, so I did.

00:45:55.325 --> 00:46:00.510
And, um, And there was some real other
realizations I came to at that time.

00:46:00.940 --> 00:46:01.630
It was really helpful.

00:46:01.630 --> 00:46:03.400
One of those in particular,
which is kind of funny.

00:46:03.940 --> 00:46:07.910
Was somebody had given me a new
living translation of the Bible.

00:46:08.890 --> 00:46:13.130
And, uh, and again, the church I grew up
in had a very narrow mind about things.

00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:16.330
And we were only allowed to
use the King James Bible.

00:46:16.670 --> 00:46:20.270
Uh, and that was the, that was the only
one that, you know, if it was good enough

00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:23.850
for John the Baptist, it was good enough
for us and you know, that kind of thing.

00:46:24.470 --> 00:46:29.690
And, uh, and so I was, but I had a new
living translation and because what God

00:46:29.690 --> 00:46:33.210
was doing in my heart at that time, I
mean, and I had nothing else to do because

00:46:33.210 --> 00:46:34.410
I was in a hospital room by myself.

00:46:35.355 --> 00:46:39.055
I had visitors, um, you know, here and
there, and we spent Christmas morning in

00:46:39.055 --> 00:46:44.435
the hospital, so we did gift exchange in
the hospital, um, and then my birthday

00:46:44.435 --> 00:46:49.955
was, was four days, it's four days
after Christmas, and, uh, so I spent

00:46:49.955 --> 00:46:55.275
my birthday in there as well, and, um,
but I started reading the Bible, and

00:46:55.275 --> 00:46:58.415
it was just this little tiny New Living
Translation of the Bible, and I started

00:46:58.415 --> 00:47:00.775
reading it for the first time in my life.

00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:05.520
I enjoyed reading the Bible, and I
found myself not wanting to put it down.

00:47:06.140 --> 00:47:07.670
And I was reading the Old Testament, too.

00:47:08.390 --> 00:47:11.300
So I was just reading these stories,
and I was like, Man, I've just

00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:13.310
never seen the Bible like this.

00:47:13.420 --> 00:47:14.700
I've never read it like this.

00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.410
Again, it was also because of
what God was doing in my life.

00:47:17.470 --> 00:47:24.100
But, but, I mean, I know it
sounds horrible, but I just didn't

00:47:24.290 --> 00:47:25.700
enjoy reading the King James.

00:47:26.160 --> 00:47:30.720
You know, the, the, the style
that it was written in, and

00:47:30.730 --> 00:47:31.850
the language that's being used.

00:47:31.850 --> 00:47:34.950
I understood it, for the most
part, but I just didn't enjoy it.

00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:37.470
And so I found myself
enjoying reading the Bible.

00:47:37.470 --> 00:47:44.040
And that was really a pivotal time for
me because I realized that that God

00:47:44.040 --> 00:47:51.710
is for me, that he's a personal God
and that he gave me his word, not as a

00:47:51.710 --> 00:47:58.040
list of rules to keep me from living my
life, but as, uh, as instructions and

00:47:58.040 --> 00:48:03.060
really as a love letter to me, to lead
me to life, not, not to keep me from

00:48:03.060 --> 00:48:04.480
living life, but really to live life.

00:48:05.170 --> 00:48:07.290
And, and I never really
realized it like that before.

00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:09.870
And, uh, And that was really helpful.

00:48:10.100 --> 00:48:14.320
And also at the time, the pastor
of the church I grew up in came to

00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:18.090
visit me and he was very judgmental.

00:48:19.050 --> 00:48:25.180
Um, and, and was saying
something about God's doing this

00:48:25.180 --> 00:48:26.200
because of sin in your life.

00:48:27.220 --> 00:48:32.990
And although he was right,
it, the way he presented it.

00:48:34.975 --> 00:48:39.365
Really caused me kind of to turn
to turn off a little bit from

00:48:39.585 --> 00:48:42.345
from that style of Christianity.

00:48:42.845 --> 00:48:46.535
Meanwhile, this pastor of another
church that I was I was already at.

00:48:47.035 --> 00:48:49.965
It was actually a Wesleyan church, a
church that I was leading worship in

00:48:50.335 --> 00:48:51.545
the first church I led worship in.

00:48:51.985 --> 00:48:55.815
He came to visit me and he
gave me this other side of God.

00:48:56.515 --> 00:48:58.905
And he was talking about God's
love and he was talking about

00:48:58.905 --> 00:49:01.435
God's grace and God's healing.

00:49:02.075 --> 00:49:04.815
And so, you know, it's almost like, uh.

00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:10.070
I had had the choice of, of which
meal to eat, which tree to eat from,

00:49:10.470 --> 00:49:13.560
you know, uh, and tree of life or
tree of knowledge of good and evil.

00:49:13.570 --> 00:49:16.050
I was quite like that, but, but
it seemed like that at the time.

00:49:16.640 --> 00:49:18.590
And I'm like, man, I'm,
I'm going that direction.

00:49:18.590 --> 00:49:22.290
I'm going, I'm going with life and
grace and love and forgiveness.

00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:28.030
And, um, and that, that was really cool
that I was able to, to see, and it's funny

00:49:28.030 --> 00:49:32.820
too because it was almost like darkness
and light, you know, because the preacher

00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:36.660
that came was wearing a black suit, but
the preacher that the, the other preacher

00:49:36.660 --> 00:49:40.380
that came, um, was wearing like a white
polo or something or a light colored polo.

00:49:40.990 --> 00:49:44.450
So it was, you know, you could
write a story about it, write

00:49:44.450 --> 00:49:46.870
a poem about it, but, um.

00:49:47.485 --> 00:49:49.935
But like I said, God really used
that, that moment in my life

00:49:50.035 --> 00:49:53.015
to, to bring me back on track.

00:49:53.125 --> 00:49:56.285
And, uh, that was really helpful.

00:49:56.505 --> 00:49:58.465
And I learned a lot of things.

00:49:58.465 --> 00:50:01.005
A lot of things changed really
in that short season of my life.

00:50:01.255 --> 00:50:03.075
And, uh, I'm very thankful for that.

00:50:04.745 --> 00:50:05.095
Yeah.

00:50:05.095 --> 00:50:05.595
Thank you.

00:50:05.605 --> 00:50:06.395
That's wonderful.

00:50:06.395 --> 00:50:07.465
I love that story.

00:50:07.535 --> 00:50:13.625
And I liked what you said about the NLT
because I grew up with the King James too.

00:50:14.345 --> 00:50:17.545
And somewhere along the way I
graduated to a new King James,

00:50:17.545 --> 00:50:19.675
but, and that was like my.

00:50:20.365 --> 00:50:26.205
Go to Bible for most of my life and
when the NLT came out in the 90s

00:50:26.205 --> 00:50:30.890
It was you know, kind of kind of
weird, you know Getting used to it.

00:50:30.980 --> 00:50:38.110
I didn't really didn't use it very much
until the past few years Thank God and

00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:42.660
now I got kind of go back between the
back and forth between the New King

00:50:42.660 --> 00:50:46.790
James You know just because I'm familiar
with the language, you know, I'm kind of

00:50:46.790 --> 00:50:54.200
emotionally or psychologically attached to
the to the wording of the New King James,

00:50:54.200 --> 00:51:00.265
but the NLT has been really enlightening,
I think, and it's fun to compare them.

00:51:00.495 --> 00:51:04.405
So that experience in the hospital
where you got the preacher in the

00:51:04.405 --> 00:51:10.215
black suit and the preacher in the
white polo, such a stark contrast,

00:51:10.225 --> 00:51:11.745
that's a really great story.

00:51:12.595 --> 00:51:16.485
Any other things like that that
have happened along the way

00:51:16.485 --> 00:51:20.725
that helped you understand God?

00:51:20.775 --> 00:51:21.105
Yeah.

00:51:22.025 --> 00:51:24.705
Yeah, I'd say there's been
a ton of little things.

00:51:25.630 --> 00:51:29.660
The whole opportunity that we had moving
to Virginia, planning a church, being

00:51:29.660 --> 00:51:32.816
part of a church, things learned so much.

00:51:32.816 --> 00:51:37.580
Um, and then planting a church
that, that wasn't my choice.

00:51:38.540 --> 00:51:43.320
Um, that, that was just very clearly
something that God was leading us to do.

00:51:43.680 --> 00:51:47.530
Wasn't even something I was interested
in or even, even thought that

00:51:47.530 --> 00:51:50.960
we should be doing, uh, the idea
of planting a church in my mind.

00:51:51.415 --> 00:51:54.165
There was enough church plants already
or enough churches already, but

00:51:54.605 --> 00:51:55.835
come to find out there's really not.

00:51:56.685 --> 00:51:59.515
Um, and we're kind of working
in the negative because.

00:52:00.145 --> 00:52:03.445
There's a lot of churches that
are declining or have declined or

00:52:03.445 --> 00:52:08.175
have died, closed, you know, being
sold to a chiropractor or, you

00:52:08.175 --> 00:52:09.565
know, for an office or whatever.

00:52:09.605 --> 00:52:11.785
There's, uh, and so we,
we need more churches.

00:52:11.785 --> 00:52:16.135
And, and so that, that, uh, you
know, there wasn't a traumatic

00:52:16.145 --> 00:52:17.525
experience planning a church.

00:52:17.585 --> 00:52:20.295
It was a great experience,
but it taught me a lot.

00:52:20.455 --> 00:52:26.300
And, um, And, and I've met a lot of people
through it and, and learned a lot about

00:52:26.300 --> 00:52:28.580
processes and systems and structures.

00:52:28.580 --> 00:52:33.810
That's been really helpful for me,
even now, as a pastor, um, my wife

00:52:33.810 --> 00:52:37.000
and I had had two miscarriages a
couple of years ago, and that was,

00:52:37.680 --> 00:52:43.900
uh, several, several events or several
factors involved in that whole story.

00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:50.340
Yeah, that, that showed me God's
love and God's care, um, and some

00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:51.370
people that were in our life.

00:52:51.450 --> 00:52:55.940
And so, like I said, I think there's
probably a lot of little things that, um,

00:52:56.620 --> 00:52:59.950
that have been really helpful, you know,
and, and there's things along the way

00:52:59.950 --> 00:53:07.120
that maybe as I, as I got into adulthood,
especially into my thirties, And I began

00:53:07.120 --> 00:53:14.950
to discover about human nature, discover
about, um, you know, sin in the world,

00:53:14.950 --> 00:53:19.290
like the reality of the world that we live
in, that some people just straight lie.

00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:22.580
Uh, you know, I had to learn
that kind of the hard way that

00:53:22.700 --> 00:53:23.570
not everybody tells the truth.

00:53:24.440 --> 00:53:29.220
Um, and, and there's, uh, and some
people even, they believe the lies

00:53:29.220 --> 00:53:30.390
that they're, that they're saying.

00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:32.280
They don't even know they're
lying, they believe it.

00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:40.620
And, uh, yeah, so there's probably just
a whole long list of little things.

00:53:40.660 --> 00:53:43.880
Can't really think of anything
else major at this moment.

00:53:44.610 --> 00:53:48.830
What advice would you have for
somebody out there listening,

00:53:49.040 --> 00:53:54.670
whether they're already a Christian,
anybody, any human being on the face

00:53:54.820 --> 00:53:59.370
of the planet, what kind of wisdom
would you have to pass on to them?

00:54:00.630 --> 00:54:04.210
Well, there's probably a list
of 20 things I could say.

00:54:06.030 --> 00:54:14.800
One thing is, it is very healthy
to recognize that not only am I not

00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:17.620
perfect, neither is anybody else.

00:54:18.180 --> 00:54:21.400
My parents, whether they did the
best they could, they were far from

00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:23.260
perfect, and neither were their parents.

00:54:23.520 --> 00:54:28.190
And so all of us are starting
off very imperfect and really

00:54:28.190 --> 00:54:29.190
starting in the negative.

00:54:30.230 --> 00:54:36.780
Our only hope of getting through this
life in a healthy way and living an

00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:40.900
abundant life like scripture says we
can, our only hope is through Christ.

00:54:41.825 --> 00:54:43.545
And the things that he's
already set up for us.

00:54:43.945 --> 00:54:49.945
So, being part of a healthy church,
reading scripture daily, praying to

00:54:49.945 --> 00:54:56.105
God, uh, putting in healthy spiritual
disciplines, even fasting, meditating,

00:54:56.125 --> 00:55:01.885
walking, praying, um, those are the things
that God's set up for us in scripture.

00:55:01.925 --> 00:55:04.705
And the only reason I know those
things is from reading scripture.

00:55:04.705 --> 00:55:07.155
And the only reason any of us would know
any of them is from reading scripture.

00:55:08.125 --> 00:55:14.065
And, and so, yeah, recognizing
that none of us are perfect, And

00:55:14.065 --> 00:55:16.985
then the second thing I'll say is
because none of us are perfect.

00:55:17.545 --> 00:55:25.755
I, I, who have been given a
immeasurable riches of grace, also

00:55:25.755 --> 00:55:31.525
have a responsibility to give others an
immeasurable amount of grace to forgive

00:55:31.525 --> 00:55:33.915
them over and over for the same thing.

00:55:34.775 --> 00:55:40.295
Uh, whether or not I continue to put
myself in a hurtful situation is, it's not

00:55:40.295 --> 00:55:45.715
what I'm saying, but forgiving and giving
grace to others is what I'm called to do.

00:55:46.435 --> 00:55:47.035
And it's.

00:55:47.555 --> 00:55:52.865
It's amazing to me how easy it
is for me and all of us to give

00:55:52.865 --> 00:55:58.995
ourselves grace for something that
we are very critical to others about.

00:55:59.305 --> 00:56:03.635
So if somebody cuts us off in traffic
and we're upset with them, but if we

00:56:03.635 --> 00:56:07.525
cut somebody off in traffic, we have
an excuse why, uh, you know, we weren't

00:56:07.525 --> 00:56:10.515
paying attention or the sun was in our
eyes or the kid was screaming in the

00:56:10.515 --> 00:56:12.815
back or, but they better not cut us off.

00:56:13.195 --> 00:56:17.745
And so, yeah, be give grace
freely and quickly and easily.

00:56:19.450 --> 00:56:20.690
And so that's the second thing I'd say.

00:56:20.940 --> 00:56:24.520
Third thing I would say, I guess I've
kind of already mentioned, is God has

00:56:24.540 --> 00:56:28.080
given us his word for a reason, and he
has a life that he wants us to live.

00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:30.580
It's not going to be a life
that's free of trouble.

00:56:31.030 --> 00:56:35.320
It's not going to be always healthy, and
wealthy, and prosperous, and perfect.

00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:36.150
It's going to be far from that.

00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:40.550
In fact, depending on where we
are, And the environment that we're

00:56:40.550 --> 00:56:44.870
in, it may be a very difficult
life, maybe a traumatic life.

00:56:45.010 --> 00:56:49.220
We may have to deal with persecution
like some brothers and sisters in

00:56:49.620 --> 00:56:55.040
that I know in Pakistan that I mean,
they have to every day of their life,

00:56:55.060 --> 00:56:56.230
they have to deal with persecution.

00:56:56.970 --> 00:57:02.150
So it may be a difficult life, but it can
still be an abundant life spiritually.

00:57:03.130 --> 00:57:05.820
According to Ephesians one, you know,
every spiritual blessing in Christ

00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:13.150
Jesus, but we can only find that
through a growing healthy relationship

00:57:13.150 --> 00:57:16.660
with Christ, which only comes
through spending time in his word.

00:57:17.790 --> 00:57:22.600
It does not come through following my
religious traditions or my own thoughts

00:57:22.600 --> 00:57:25.750
or feelings, especially not my feelings.

00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:26.530
My feelings.

00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:28.510
Will lie to me every day.

00:57:29.140 --> 00:57:34.700
Um, I might feel depressed and simply,
uh, come to find out it's cold outside

00:57:35.310 --> 00:57:38.790
or I'm hungry, or I didn't sleep well
enough or feelings are the, are the

00:57:38.790 --> 00:57:43.190
biggest liars, so maybe that's the next,
next piece of advice I'd give is don't

00:57:43.190 --> 00:57:48.910
follow your feelings, follow truth and
your feelings will follow eventually.

00:57:49.395 --> 00:57:50.045
But follow truth.

00:57:51.355 --> 00:57:51.755
Yeah.

00:57:51.845 --> 00:57:59.355
And, and then if somebody is
a, uh, is a Christian, and they

00:57:59.355 --> 00:58:00.675
are growing in their faith.

00:58:02.455 --> 00:58:09.615
Then I would say my advice for them
would be find somebody to learn from,

00:58:10.435 --> 00:58:14.105
find somebody that's, that's in front
of you to learn from, find somebody

00:58:14.105 --> 00:58:20.125
that is along the same lines as you
to, to live life with or learn with.

00:58:21.145 --> 00:58:25.715
Uh, and then find somebody that's behind
you spiritually for you to disciple.

00:58:25.885 --> 00:58:31.205
Each of those, each of those directions
forward with, and then behind

00:58:32.955 --> 00:58:36.235
having those in our life, people
in our life that, that fit each of

00:58:36.235 --> 00:58:38.465
those categories will help us grow.

00:58:39.030 --> 00:58:44.080
Uh, you know, off the charts, especially
having somebody behind me that I'm

00:58:44.140 --> 00:58:48.650
mentoring or that I'm teaching or
that I'm leading in a small group or

00:58:48.650 --> 00:58:53.160
I'm meeting for coffee, just having
that person looking up to me as an

00:58:53.160 --> 00:58:54.510
example is going to be very helpful.

00:58:55.550 --> 00:58:59.060
And then if somebody is interested
in, um, in being a leader,

00:58:59.470 --> 00:59:03.540
there's, uh, that's something I've
probably spent most of my ministry.

00:59:04.625 --> 00:59:06.815
learning about and then
even training others.

00:59:07.215 --> 00:59:10.505
And I'd love to talk to somebody about,
about how they can develop as a leader.

00:59:11.365 --> 00:59:14.845
Um, and that's kind of one of my dreams
in life is to be in a position where

00:59:14.975 --> 00:59:18.495
I'm doing that a lot more than I am
right now, just developing, either

00:59:18.495 --> 00:59:21.565
developing other leaders or helping
churches develop leaders in their church.

00:59:22.935 --> 00:59:26.845
Uh, and so find opportunities
to lead, be faithful with

00:59:26.845 --> 00:59:28.540
what you have, where you are.

00:59:29.080 --> 00:59:33.290
With the people you, you're with, and then
just allow God to bless you with more.

00:59:33.650 --> 00:59:37.210
Allow God to give you an increase,
uh, from there, if that's His will.

00:59:38.340 --> 00:59:42.060
Um, and if somebody's interested in
planting a church, man, we need them.

00:59:42.340 --> 00:59:45.060
So, talk, talk to somebody about doing it.

00:59:47.630 --> 00:59:48.310
All right.

00:59:49.160 --> 00:59:50.710
Man, that was great.

00:59:52.450 --> 00:59:54.290
I'm sure we all needed to hear that.

00:59:55.100 --> 00:59:59.850
Uh, so, uh, anything else you want to add?

00:59:59.850 --> 01:00:02.590
And if, uh, if so, feel free.

01:00:02.590 --> 01:00:06.480
If not, I'd like for you
to pray for the listeners.

01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:14.070
There's somebody that might be listening
to this in the year 2037, and they're lost

01:00:14.070 --> 01:00:19.050
and wondering what to do, and they stumble
across this podcast, and they hear you.

01:00:19.660 --> 01:00:23.430
Who knows who's going to ever hear
this, and how God's going to use

01:00:23.430 --> 01:00:27.660
it, but would you pray for our
listeners before we wrap things up?

01:00:28.570 --> 01:00:29.100
Yeah, sure.

01:00:29.675 --> 01:00:30.005
Yeah.

01:00:30.135 --> 01:00:30.525
All right.

01:00:31.175 --> 01:00:35.425
Well, Father, thank you for an opportunity
to talk about your goodness and just to

01:00:35.425 --> 01:00:41.485
share testimony of how you work in our
life, uh, and how you're a very present

01:00:41.495 --> 01:00:47.385
help that you're not a God who just, uh,
sets things in motion and then walks away

01:00:47.385 --> 01:00:48.925
or even saves us and then walks away.

01:00:48.935 --> 01:00:50.525
Lord, you're with us
every step of the way.

01:00:51.295 --> 01:00:52.625
We're very grateful for that.

01:00:52.865 --> 01:00:54.565
Thank you also that you love us so much.

01:00:54.970 --> 01:01:00.230
That even when we sin or when our lives
are headed in a wrong direction, falling

01:01:00.230 --> 01:01:04.880
into temptation, that you are there to
discipline us and chastise us just like

01:01:05.150 --> 01:01:09.590
a loving father should do and will do.

01:01:10.650 --> 01:01:11.460
And so we're grateful.

01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:18.490
I pray that we, um, that we will
learn to listen to your Holy Spirit

01:01:19.100 --> 01:01:23.480
more and more, and that we will
learn to love your word that's been

01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:24.930
written out for us more and more.

01:01:25.595 --> 01:01:28.025
And through those things, as we
read your word, as we listen to

01:01:28.035 --> 01:01:31.305
your Holy Spirit, Lord, we know that
you're going to guide us to truth.

01:01:31.375 --> 01:01:36.215
We know that you are going to lead
us to good things, to spiritual

01:01:36.225 --> 01:01:38.575
health, to leading others.

01:01:38.965 --> 01:01:42.975
Uh, we know that you're going to lead us
to an abundant life that is, uh, that is

01:01:42.975 --> 01:01:44.335
really the kind of life we're meant for.

01:01:45.235 --> 01:01:46.855
And thank you for Jesus.

01:01:47.045 --> 01:01:50.145
Thank you that he died on the cross
for our sins and rose again to give

01:01:50.145 --> 01:01:54.795
us life and that we can be saved and
we can have a home with you one day.

01:01:55.265 --> 01:01:56.065
We love you in Jesus name.

01:01:57.875 --> 01:01:58.485
Amen.

01:01:59.695 --> 01:02:00.655
Thank you, Robert.

01:02:00.665 --> 01:02:03.315
Thank you so much for
taking the time to do this.

01:02:03.315 --> 01:02:05.435
I know it's going to be a blessing.

01:02:06.745 --> 01:02:08.435
It already is a blessing to me.

01:02:09.755 --> 01:02:10.405
Absolutely.

01:02:10.825 --> 01:02:11.555
Well, thank you, Jesse.

01:02:20.070 --> 01:02:22.290
We hope you've been
blessed by today's story.

01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:26.470
In case you haven't noticed, there
are no advertisements on this podcast

01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:28.390
and we hope to keep it that way.

01:02:29.050 --> 01:02:33.190
So if you've heard something that you
think could help someone you know, please

01:02:33.200 --> 01:02:35.320
share it using the link in the show notes.

01:02:36.150 --> 01:02:40.500
Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a
positive review on your podcast platform,

01:02:40.930 --> 01:02:42.600
you could help more people find it.

01:02:43.180 --> 01:02:47.240
You will probably never know how
that small effort can make a big

01:02:47.250 --> 01:02:48.840
difference in someone's life.

01:02:49.125 --> 01:02:50.805
But our Heavenly Father knows.

01:02:51.285 --> 01:02:56.135
Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus
follower with a story to tell, please send

01:02:56.135 --> 01:02:58.535
them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.

01:02:59.015 --> 01:03:01.165
It may encourage them to tell their story.

01:03:01.595 --> 01:03:03.145
That person may even be you.

01:03:03.635 --> 01:03:06.795
Our only criteria is
that Jesus be glorified.

01:03:07.555 --> 01:03:11.055
Most Christians don't share their
faith because they mistakenly think

01:03:11.065 --> 01:03:13.405
their story is not interesting enough.

01:03:13.875 --> 01:03:16.245
Or that it's self centered
to talk about themselves.

01:03:16.665 --> 01:03:20.475
Or that they are not competent
to explain the gospel correctly.

01:03:20.925 --> 01:03:22.185
But none of that is relevant.

01:03:22.575 --> 01:03:26.025
If Jesus has changed your
life, you have a story to tell.

01:03:26.075 --> 01:03:28.475
All of our stories are completely unique.

01:03:28.825 --> 01:03:33.575
No one has a story like yours, and you
may be the only one who can reach someone

01:03:33.575 --> 01:03:35.475
else through telling your experience.

01:03:35.895 --> 01:03:37.245
So don't be intimidated.

01:03:37.635 --> 01:03:41.935
A story is just that, a true
account of your own experience.

01:03:42.350 --> 01:03:45.060
And no one can disagree
with your experience.

01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:50.140
When we tell what Jesus has done in
our lives, we are being obedient to his

01:03:50.140 --> 01:03:54.350
command to go into all the world and
preach the gospel to every creature.

01:03:54.770 --> 01:03:58.580
It's not about theology, and it's not
about how interesting or special you are.

01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:00.820
It's all about Jesus.

01:04:01.395 --> 01:04:06.095
So when you're ready to tell how Jesus
has impacted your life, you can let Jesse

01:04:06.095 --> 01:04:09.195
know at his ministry website, jesseduke.

01:04:09.235 --> 01:04:09.555
net.

01:04:10.105 --> 01:04:13.125
There you can download guidelines
that will make it easy to

01:04:13.125 --> 01:04:14.665
prepare to tell your story.

01:04:15.195 --> 01:04:17.685
Thank you for listening today and Shalom.