1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,120 Welcome to NoOffice, a podcast about work, technology and life from a remote company perspective. 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:15,120 In Nozbe, we believe that work is not a place to go, it is a thing that you do. That is why, 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:23,840 since 2007, we run our company 100% remotely. In Nozbe, there is NoOffice. 4 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:31,680 The NoOffice podcast is sponsored by Nozbe teams, a to-do app that helps modern teams do great things. 5 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,680 Go to Nozbe.com to learn more. 6 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:50,640 Hello and welcome to NoOffice, a podcast about work technology and life from a remote company 7 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:58,960 perspective. My name is Rafal Sobolewski and today Michael is on vacation so I managed to invite to 8 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:05,600 this episode our CTO Radek Pietruszewski. Hello Radek, how are you? Hey, I'm doing pretty well. 9 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:11,600 Thanks for inviting me. Thanks for accepting invitation. You might know Radek from the podcast 10 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:20,240 FM, our former podcast that he ran with Michael for five years I guess. Yes, 2015 to 2020. It's 11 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:21,840 It's never been officially canceled. 12 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,680 It's just on an unusually long hold. 13 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,800 - Yeah, and I know there are many listeners 14 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,740 that asked for more episodes of the podcast, 15 00:01:29,740 --> 00:01:33,020 but that's what I managed to negotiate with Radek 16 00:01:33,020 --> 00:01:36,040 to invite him today for No Office podcast. 17 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,080 So Radek, how many donuts have you eaten already? 18 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:40,560 - Well, I've had one. 19 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:41,860 There's one more waiting for me, 20 00:01:41,860 --> 00:01:44,680 and I don't know why, there's just two. 21 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,500 So there will be more coming, 22 00:01:47,500 --> 00:01:49,200 but I'll have to leave the house for that. 23 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,080 - Yeah, I also had one and I have three more waiting for me 24 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,680 because today is our special day in Poland. 25 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,680 It's called Fat Thursday and we eat donuts that day. 26 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,800 And our donuts are much better than American one, I think, 27 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,360 because we don't have a hole inside. 28 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,840 - Yeah, I never really understood the hole. 29 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,740 Like, why do you take something that's perfect 30 00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:15,600 and then make a hole through which everything just oozes out? 31 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:16,880 It's just so impractical. 32 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Don't do that. 33 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,280 Don't make the hole, just don't make the hole. 34 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:21,380 - Don't make the hole, yeah. 35 00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:26,380 So today I wanted to talk with you about Kaizen stuff, 36 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:30,780 about constant improvements, et cetera, 37 00:02:30,780 --> 00:02:34,280 because you are the guy that take care 38 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,240 that we have the constant appetite, 39 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,460 constant effort to do it regularly. 40 00:02:40,460 --> 00:02:43,740 And we have many benefits from this, 41 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:45,020 but let's start that. 42 00:02:45,020 --> 00:02:50,020 How would you describe your role in our team today in 2022? 43 00:02:50,020 --> 00:02:54,060 Because it's all this years we are working together. 44 00:02:54,060 --> 00:02:56,900 It evolved to many different paths. 45 00:02:56,900 --> 00:02:58,540 And how is that today? 46 00:02:58,540 --> 00:03:01,460 - Yeah, so I've had many different jobs over the years. 47 00:03:01,460 --> 00:03:03,580 They just happen to be, 48 00:03:03,580 --> 00:03:06,260 to have the paycheck coming from the same person. 49 00:03:06,260 --> 00:03:11,900 Right now, I'm the person responsible 50 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:17,340 for all things technology in the new Nozbe app, 51 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:18,540 except for the server stuff. 52 00:03:18,540 --> 00:03:19,660 I don't touch the server stuff, 53 00:03:19,660 --> 00:03:21,820 but the iOS app, the Android app, the web app, 54 00:03:21,820 --> 00:03:25,420 the Mac app, beta, and the Windows app coming soon. 55 00:03:25,420 --> 00:03:28,180 That's all under my jurisdiction. 56 00:03:28,180 --> 00:03:33,180 And essentially my role is to make life easier 57 00:03:33,180 --> 00:03:35,800 for the rest of the team building the app. 58 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,660 So I make the infrastructure, so the tooling, 59 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,380 I prove out technologies that we use, 60 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:48,100 set up guidelines, try out new things, make prototypes. 61 00:03:48,100 --> 00:03:52,560 I built a couple of open source frameworks 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,720 that well, we use to build Nozbe 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,320 and make it available on all the platforms 64 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,320 and be fast and whatnot. 65 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,040 I work on sync and I say from that, 66 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,480 I do Kaizen, which we'll talk about and I do performance. 67 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,480 So I'm working on making the app fast. 68 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,160 - Yeah, so essentially I think of myself 69 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,440 as the person sort of on the side, 70 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,000 helping out others actually build the features 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,760 that people use. 72 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,880 So most of my work is not visible directly for the users, 73 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,600 but it underpins the work of, the great work of others. 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,760 - Yeah, like I think I would describe to her 75 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,760 that you make sure that others in the team 76 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,200 can build feature fast and without any issues. 77 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,600 So that's, you're kind of a catalyst or facilitator. 78 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:43,440 Okay. 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,680 - Yeah, maybe not just don't use the word catalyst. 80 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:47,520 That's just- 81 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:48,600 - Catalyst, you don't know. 82 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,440 (laughs) 83 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:50,260 - No, no, no, catalyst. 84 00:04:50,260 --> 00:04:53,080 - You don't have positive connotation with that word? 85 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:53,920 - Exactly. 86 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,240 - Okay, so you said performance. 87 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,440 So let's deep dive into performance aspect of your work. 88 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,120 So because you are obsessed with the performance 89 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,480 of our app, of our sync, of the start time of the app. 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,120 And every couple of weeks I see in our Nozbeep 91 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,000 that you announced that, 92 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,120 "Oh, here's another batch of performance improvements. 93 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,880 Now the app should start faster, the sync is faster, 94 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,280 the first login is faster, et cetera." 95 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:27,360 But besides of the app, what else? 96 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,840 Because like performance of app itself, 97 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,880 it's not only performance, you are optimizing. 98 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:37,680 So making software fast is a slow process, 99 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,120 slow and tedious and frustrating, which is funny. 100 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,920 But the thing is, there's a couple of constants 101 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,200 in software development. 102 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,260 One of them is that software tends to get slow over time. 103 00:05:53,260 --> 00:05:57,420 It tends to get bloated as features are added, 104 00:05:57,420 --> 00:06:01,000 as years pass by, there's just more and more junk. 105 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,560 And also from kind of the internal perspective, 106 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,040 the quality of the code base, 107 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:08,780 like the stuff that people work with, 108 00:06:08,780 --> 00:06:10,400 just tends to deteriorate, 109 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,520 which makes it harder and harder to work on the app, 110 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:14,360 to improve it, to make it faster. 111 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,280 It's sort of entropy, you know, 112 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:17,680 it's kind of law of the universe. 113 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,720 It happens over time 114 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,120 and you have to actively fight against it. 115 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,360 - It's the same thing as spaghetti code? 116 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:24,820 - Well, if you don't do anything about it 117 00:06:24,820 --> 00:06:27,600 and let entropy do its thing, 118 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,320 then eventually you end up with something 119 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,920 that people would call spaghetti code, 120 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,040 which is like all things tangled together, 121 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,080 like impossible to disentangle 122 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,320 and change into anything else. 123 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,520 So this is sort of something that happens naturally. 124 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,280 And the thing is it happens slowly, it happens over time. 125 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,880 And it's very difficult in companies and in teams 126 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:51,200 to assign time and effort and money into making that better, 127 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,360 into making the app a little bit faster, 128 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,760 making the code base a little bit less bloated, 129 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,080 you know, cleaning things up, removing features. 130 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,120 Like no one wants to do that because it doesn't bring immediate obvious effect 131 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,480 and it takes a lot of time. 132 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,680 But what happens if you don't do it is that eventually, couple of years in, 133 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,400 you sort of have to declare bankruptcy. 134 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,640 Like it's just very difficult to do something with it 135 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,760 if you don't work on it constantly over time. 136 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,920 So those are things that I spend a lot of my time working on 137 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,160 because those are hard to appreciate at first, 138 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,960 but it is a feature over time. 139 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,800 It doesn't sell to say, hey, the app is not slow, 140 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,780 it's pretty fast actually. 141 00:07:36,780 --> 00:07:39,160 Like it just doesn't sell the app. 142 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,960 But over time, if you don't do anything 143 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,760 and the app just grows slower and slower and slower, 144 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:45,920 people don't wanna use it. 145 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,840 Customers are unhappy. 146 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,080 You know, there's some other app with teams in the name 147 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,960 that people seem to be really not like 148 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,760 because it's floated and slow 149 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,120 and so many examples. 150 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,400 - Yeah, and adding new features and fixes 151 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,400 are much harder to add because like, 152 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,960 when code is bloated and when you add a new feature, 153 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,040 you produce five other bugs in different areas of the app. 154 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,980 - Yeah, so as for performance, 155 00:08:14,980 --> 00:08:17,880 I just think of speed of the app as a feature 156 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,840 and not very well appreciated one, 157 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,400 but one that needs to be worked on 158 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,320 to just fight the nature. 159 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,480 - Yeah, but still you managed sometimes 160 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,580 to by doing a performance work, 161 00:08:30,580 --> 00:08:35,580 you deep dive into the code to the like lower layers 162 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:37,500 of the code. 163 00:08:37,500 --> 00:08:40,500 I bet you sometimes see some low hanging fruits 164 00:08:40,500 --> 00:08:43,540 that some features you can implement or improve. 165 00:08:43,540 --> 00:08:47,300 Like for example, you implemented bulk edit mode 166 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:51,100 very quickly, but we thought that would be, 167 00:08:51,100 --> 00:08:53,980 to take much more time to implement. 168 00:08:53,980 --> 00:08:57,100 The SMCU improved a lot our jump to. 169 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:58,620 It's much, much performant. 170 00:08:58,620 --> 00:09:01,620 And on top of that, you add some features to that. 171 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:05,560 - Yeah, I rarely work on like features 172 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:09,500 like user visible things in the app anymore. 173 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:11,980 And when I do, it's usually out of frustration. 174 00:09:11,980 --> 00:09:14,500 Like I hate this, why doesn't it work 175 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:15,900 the way I want it to work? 176 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:18,140 And so I just fix it for myself. 177 00:09:18,140 --> 00:09:20,060 That's what happened with jump to 178 00:09:20,060 --> 00:09:21,860 and with bulk edit. 179 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:27,860 What's also important to appreciate is that these things, 180 00:09:27,860 --> 00:09:31,180 they are hard initially and then they become doable. 181 00:09:31,180 --> 00:09:35,740 So we'll talk about Kaizen in more depth, 182 00:09:35,740 --> 00:09:39,720 but essentially as you unload the app, as you work on it, 183 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,280 as you look at all the nooks and crannies of the code base, 184 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:44,460 you see certain problems, 185 00:09:44,460 --> 00:09:47,660 things that could be simplified, improved, 186 00:09:47,660 --> 00:09:52,260 things that are duplicated and there's like three different modules of ways of 187 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:56,620 doing something like why did that happen why can't we have just one and and you 188 00:09:56,620 --> 00:10:02,700 start just entangling it you know pulling by by the the yarn and at first 189 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:06,940 you don't see any result you're just making yourself feel better that that 190 00:10:06,940 --> 00:10:11,100 you've improved something but you can't see the result but but as you pull on 191 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:16,100 these threads and and improve things then suddenly something that was just so 192 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:21,260 tangled up with many problems and hard to change and improve, suddenly 193 00:10:21,260 --> 00:10:27,220 becomes easy. So you know with Bulk Edit, you know this is like the Nozbe app, it's 194 00:10:27,220 --> 00:10:32,820 a list of tasks that like it's a big complicated chunk of infrastructure 195 00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:36,940 you know the the list of tasks you know much more complicated than it looks 196 00:10:36,940 --> 00:10:41,940 and so as we add new feature there's bloat and then as you unbloat it like 197 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:44,620 Like suddenly, hey, you know, adding bulk edit. 198 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:46,260 That's not so hard anymore. 199 00:10:46,260 --> 00:10:48,700 - Actually that's your work. 200 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:50,700 Like I can now really appreciate 201 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:54,700 because like last year we shipped 46 updates to Nozbe. 202 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:57,500 Then it was Nozbe teams now it's new Nozbe. 203 00:10:57,500 --> 00:11:01,060 And that's pretty amazing comparing to all of these years 204 00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:03,700 we were developing Nozbe personal even. 205 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:06,060 Like we were shipping, I don't know, 206 00:11:06,060 --> 00:11:08,660 like one update per two months in Nozbe personal 207 00:11:08,660 --> 00:11:10,020 in our high peak times. 208 00:11:10,020 --> 00:11:12,780 - Yeah, this is a completely different, 209 00:11:12,780 --> 00:11:15,300 it's a huge change in mindset 210 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,740 and it's a big change in tooling and infrastructure. 211 00:11:18,740 --> 00:11:21,880 So in the old days and what we did before 212 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,760 was kind of the old days mentality 213 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,480 was that every release is polished, 214 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,060 every release is like it's something you start 215 00:11:32,060 --> 00:11:34,680 at features that you decide you need to add 216 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:37,000 and then you polish it, bug fix, test 217 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,360 and then you release it. 218 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,140 And it's a marketing release. 219 00:11:40,140 --> 00:11:44,680 And these days, like the app has to be stable 220 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,860 and polished at all times. 221 00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:49,060 And we do things and we add things 222 00:11:49,060 --> 00:11:52,160 and most of them are invisible for, you know, 223 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:56,680 weeks or months, but every release is stable. 224 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:59,320 And none of the releases are marketing releases. 225 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,300 We just add things all the time. 226 00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:05,320 We ship every week, no matter what, 227 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,520 unless something is like really blowing up. 228 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,520 And then when we're ready to actually show something 229 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,200 to the users that we know when that feature is ready, 230 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,820 not the release, the feature is ready, 231 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:18,680 then we flip the switch, enable it, people see it. 232 00:12:18,680 --> 00:12:20,960 Hopefully customers are happy, 233 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,720 but it happens when we're ready. 234 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,720 Not because, hey, this is a 3.2.1.2137 release. 235 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,400 No, no one cares. 236 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,000 You just want to use the app and get your stuff done, 237 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,740 get your life organized, make your team more productive. 238 00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:37,580 Like you don't care about marketing releases. 239 00:12:37,580 --> 00:12:40,680 So, and this way, you know, 240 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,360 when you have all the tooling automated, 241 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,640 when you dog food the app all the time, 242 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,640 it's always constantly being tested by machines and by us. 243 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,820 Then, you know, there's no reason not to release. 244 00:12:52,820 --> 00:12:55,620 And so, yes, there's a slightly higher chance 245 00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:58,060 that we release some bug, you know, this week, 246 00:12:58,060 --> 00:12:59,860 because we shit this week. 247 00:12:59,860 --> 00:13:03,860 But the upside is that if we mess something up, 248 00:13:03,860 --> 00:13:06,860 people see much earlier, much more quickly. 249 00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:10,660 Like every release is a smaller chunk of changes. 250 00:13:10,660 --> 00:13:15,660 So whatever happens is just a small chunk of change. 251 00:13:15,660 --> 00:13:20,660 And we don't change the fundamental things every week, 252 00:13:20,660 --> 00:13:22,360 but we add some new feature, 253 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,720 not yet fully our full idea for this feature, 254 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:27,560 but it already works. 255 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:29,880 people use it, give us feedback, we improve it. 256 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,600 Next week it's already a bit better. 257 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,760 - Plus we don't worry about even shipping bugs 258 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,420 because when we ship some bugs and they are not critical, 259 00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:42,140 we know we will have LEDs next week. 260 00:13:42,140 --> 00:13:44,540 So we can fix that very, very quickly. 261 00:13:44,540 --> 00:13:49,360 And we are almost releasing that in this process 262 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,300 for almost two years now. 263 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:56,300 And I think we only had to do like hotfix LEDs 264 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,040 in the same week like one or two times. 265 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,120 So I think that's pretty good, good result. 266 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,040 - Yeah, this is software, this is computers. 267 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,520 It's not perfect, it's never perfect. 268 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,520 It has bugs unfortunately, and we can't avoid it. 269 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,960 We do our best, but we can't avoid it. 270 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,200 But it's sometimes better to ship just, you know, 271 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,300 small, not that important bugs every week 272 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:21,500 than, you know, a huge chunk of like new features 273 00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:24,040 and improvements and oh, it turns out, you know, 274 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,920 it's just completely broken for people 275 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:27,760 and customers not happy. 276 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,200 - All right, so let's go to Kaizen. 277 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,960 Every Monday, you and one front-end developer 278 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,600 that is currently on hand, 279 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,020 which is Horizon Expanding Month, 280 00:14:37,020 --> 00:14:38,520 we will talk about it later, 281 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,880 you have a Kaizen event. 282 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,360 It's some kind of per-programming, or what's that about? 283 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,540 - No, it's not per-programming. 284 00:14:46,540 --> 00:14:49,580 So Kaizen, this is an inspiration, 285 00:14:49,580 --> 00:14:54,580 one of many inspirations that I've introduced to Nozbe 286 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,000 from lean manufacturing. 287 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,900 It's kind of this philosophy that's been taking hold 288 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:03,240 in manufacturing world, starting with Toyota 289 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,240 and Japanese companies thinking about a better way 290 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,660 of running companies in manufacturing. 291 00:15:12,660 --> 00:15:15,160 And some of these lessons are applicable. 292 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:16,840 So one of these ideas is Kaizen. 293 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,760 Kaizen means continuous improvement. 294 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,040 And the idea here is that you don't, 295 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,500 It's actually kind of similar to us shipping every week. 296 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:32,040 You don't make these huge projects to, I don't know, 297 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,380 introduce a new production technology or whatever, 298 00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:39,960 or just ignore things and just let things run 299 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,020 and yeah, there's some problems, but whatever. 300 00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:46,740 No, you have to continuously improve to stay 301 00:15:46,740 --> 00:15:51,360 at the cutting edge to be the best company, 302 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,900 the best technology company you can be. 303 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:54,020 have to be on the cutting edge. 304 00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:57,360 And so you have to constantly look for problems 305 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,020 and not quality problems, 306 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:01,840 like problems that customers are gonna see, 307 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,080 but improvements to the process, 308 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,780 the process of manufacturing, in our case, manufacturing code. 309 00:16:08,780 --> 00:16:11,860 And so every week we meet up, 310 00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:14,700 we have our list of ideas of things we can improve 311 00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:15,540 in the code base. 312 00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:18,620 And it's a little hard to explain to non-programmers, 313 00:16:18,620 --> 00:16:23,620 but we just notice things that are kinda hard to do, 314 00:16:23,620 --> 00:16:26,000 take a little bit more time than they should 315 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,580 or things that we do all the time. 316 00:16:27,580 --> 00:16:30,480 So in the app, we have a lot of menus. 317 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,400 We have a lot of, I don't know, text inputs. 318 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,560 There's certain elements that repeat over and over 319 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,800 and over and over again. 320 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,760 So we want to make them easier, like easier to use, 321 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,060 faster to apply, to build a new feature 322 00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:46,320 using some sort of element. 323 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:54,560 there's "poka-yoke". "Poka-yoke" means "full-proofing". So we notice where we make mistakes 324 00:16:54,560 --> 00:17:01,360 and try to find a pattern in those mistakes. And then we full-proof it. So we add a "poka-yoke" 325 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:08,320 to make doing the wrong thing more difficult. So for example, the app is translated into, 326 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:14,480 I don't know, six, seven, eight languages. Whenever in the app there's some text that's 327 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,720 we refer to this text by its identifier. 328 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,520 And it happened in the past that someone made a typo 329 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,520 in that identifier or the name of that, 330 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,880 the key of that text has changed. 331 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,280 And then we shipped the app with, 332 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:30,480 instead of, I don't know, 333 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,120 it's saying single tasks translated into German, 334 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:36,680 it would say, I don't know, 335 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:41,480 underscore single underscore tasks, string, whatever. 336 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,780 So, hey, we can change that. 337 00:17:43,780 --> 00:17:46,380 So we added a little bit of technology magic 338 00:17:46,380 --> 00:17:48,680 so that when you enter the wrong key, 339 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,960 it just highlights in the editor as read like, 340 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,620 "Hey, this key does not exist." 341 00:17:53,620 --> 00:17:56,820 This is just one example of thousands. 342 00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,560 Literally every week we notice something else 343 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,820 that we could make a little bit easier to do, 344 00:18:01,820 --> 00:18:03,320 a little bit faster to do, 345 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,260 a little bit harder to mess up, 346 00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:08,960 or something that, hey, there's some duplication, 347 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,700 duplication, hey there's some old stuff that we need to clean up, some stuff like internal 348 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,140 stuff to remove, stuff like that. 349 00:18:17,140 --> 00:18:22,180 By doing this continuous improvement, you know, every week the end result, like the 350 00:18:22,180 --> 00:18:26,080 user does not see it and we notice it only a little bit. 351 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:33,440 But like imagine you improve your productivity as a team member by, I don't know, 1% every 352 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,440 week. 353 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,080 That's actually, when you think about it, 1% a week, 354 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,720 turns out to be pretty outrageous. 355 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,260 So it's probably less than that, but 1% a week. 356 00:18:43,260 --> 00:18:48,260 Now, you know, take 1.01 and raise it to the 52 power. 357 00:18:48,260 --> 00:18:53,760 So 52 weeks in a year, and it turns out 358 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,120 that your proactivity has skyrocketed, right? 359 00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:59,040 - Yeah, and multiplied by our team members, 360 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,760 because the most improvements you made 361 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,840 are applicable for everyone in a team. 362 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,880 like at least for developers. 363 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,760 - Yeah, so by making small changes, 364 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,480 but continuously noticing problems and fixing them, 365 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,160 thinking about how we can make this better 366 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,260 instead of pretending that they don't exist, 367 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:18,000 like, eh, it's not a big deal. 368 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,600 Every week, over and over and over again, 369 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,840 you just make the productivity of our team, 370 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,560 the quality of the work that we produce 371 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,560 for the customers better and better. 372 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,720 And it's a tiny bit every week. 373 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,720 And yeah, by changing things, sometimes we break things, 374 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,600 a little bit, but it's so much worth it. 375 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,060 And I think you can see it, you know, being internally 376 00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:43,640 but not a developer, how we just, you know 377 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,640 with the same number of people, we just become faster 378 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,520 and faster and faster, you know, pushing out new features 379 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,160 you know, faster and better 380 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,200 and with higher quality from the start. 381 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,120 - Yeah, like, as I said, we shipped 46 updates last year 382 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:02,120 and I'm still surprised how fast we can develop some base 383 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,240 for the feature that actually already adds value 384 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,000 and we use it and oftentimes we decide to ship it 385 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:09,320 in that form. 386 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,400 It's often like one week appetite time 387 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,800 for a developer to develop it. 388 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,480 And thanks to those constant improvements 389 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,480 to those guys and events, yeah, we maintain our speed, 390 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,640 our performance of developing the features. 391 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:27,620 - Yeah, exactly. 392 00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:29,080 - All right, let's take a break here 393 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:34,080 and thank our sponsors this week, which is of course us. 394 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,160 Yes, Nozbe. 395 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,800 Nozbe is task-based asynchronous communication app 396 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,040 for personal, family and business use. 397 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,680 So let's hear what our customers actually say 398 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,800 about the product. 399 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,240 - When we've been around for about 10 years, 400 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,080 our business has, and we've been using Nozbe 401 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,320 for about eight of those years. 402 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,280 And as we grew, we kind of got to the point 403 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,200 I just couldn't remember everything anymore. 404 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,520 I'm pretty organized. 405 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,040 I would just kind of keep everything in my head 406 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,960 and with post-it notes and things like that. 407 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,400 And it just got to be too much. 408 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,560 And so I started looking around 409 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,920 for some sort of project management software 410 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,160 that could help me have a set up really trusted system. 411 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:14,320 But really I just wanted a system 412 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,740 where I could know that I had everything in there. 413 00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:18,120 I wasn't gonna forget anything. 414 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:21,120 I wasn't gonna drop any balls for clients or missed deadlines 415 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:26,320 - All right, and we are back. 416 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,400 let's go back to talk about Kaizen improvements. 417 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,920 You spoke about like dev tools, 418 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,920 the tools we developers using for producing a code, 419 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,820 for writing a code. 420 00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:42,560 I also remember that recently we improved a lot 421 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,320 our build server. 422 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,840 - Yes, so this is one of the myriad 423 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,080 of little technology pieces 424 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,560 that are not user visible technologies, 425 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,160 customer visible technologies, but-- 426 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,440 Actually, I can make it visible as a podcast chapter art 427 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,120 and display it on the video version. 428 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:02,200 Yeah. 429 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,040 Wow, that's ugly. 430 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,760 I'm ashamed of myself. 431 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,560 Well, it's not a UI that customers see. 432 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:10,600 True. 433 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,880 Anyway, long story short, we build a lot of code. 434 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,800 We have a small but very active team. 435 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,040 And after every change, which we will make a lot, 436 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,860 you want to run automatic tests on the code base 437 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:28,500 and make builds. 438 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:31,680 So with tests, there's like five different tools 439 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,940 that we run on the entire code base 440 00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:37,600 to check for any errors that can be caught automatically 441 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,240 without human interaction. 442 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,020 And for builds, we have the web app, the Mac app, 443 00:22:43,020 --> 00:22:45,100 the Windows app, coming soon, 444 00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:46,540 the Android app and the iOS app. 445 00:22:46,540 --> 00:22:47,620 That's five apps. 446 00:22:47,620 --> 00:22:49,800 And it takes a lot of time to build. 447 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,240 Actually not that much time 448 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,200 because one of the Kaizen events actions 449 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,280 and my own time was spent on just making 450 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,740 these automatic tools and the builds faster 451 00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:04,040 and faster and faster. 452 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,880 And then we have Apple come out with new computers 453 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,040 which are faster and faster and faster. 454 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:15,040 So again, in the old days, you'd make a smaller number 455 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:20,520 of larger changes, larger commits in the tech lingo 456 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,860 just because what you have to do afterwards 457 00:23:22,860 --> 00:23:24,260 was just painful and slow. 458 00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:26,780 And the idea here is we want to be nimble 459 00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:30,160 and very, very fast and make lots of tiny changes, 460 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,700 changes that are easy to review, to test, 461 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:35,860 to just ship to the users. 462 00:23:35,860 --> 00:23:38,660 And so we need the process of automatic testing 463 00:23:38,660 --> 00:23:40,700 and build making to be very, very fast. 464 00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:43,480 So that's what CI/CD means, 465 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,180 that's automatic testing and making builds. 466 00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:47,700 And we have our own server for that 467 00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:51,680 because it turns out it's less painful and cheaper 468 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,660 to just have your own computer do that. 469 00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:57,100 And because we make iOS apps, 470 00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,500 we need to make our builds on a Mac, 471 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,500 which is not ideal, but you know, it is what it is. 472 00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:07,500 So we got the fastest Mac Mini money could buy 473 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:13,740 and just put it on the shelf with a fastest SSD, 474 00:24:13,740 --> 00:24:16,960 stuck it in a server room. 475 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,760 other friends at the Warsaw Hackerspace, hackerspace.pl. 476 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,840 We have a nice server room, our server sits there. 477 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,000 And you know, every single time someone pushes 478 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,760 a tiniest change to the code of the new Nozbe, 479 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,340 within four minutes and 30 seconds, 480 00:24:37,340 --> 00:24:39,600 there's five apps to download and test 481 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,160 and all the automatic checks are either passed or failed. 482 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,480 - It's like every change on every branch 483 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:51,480 or only those branches that have open PRs. 484 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,000 - Have open PRs, yeah. 485 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,580 - So, yeah, and I can see that's pretty fast 486 00:24:56,580 --> 00:24:59,680 and already today I think we have like, 487 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,480 as I can see on what output of our build server, 488 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,200 we already have three versions. 489 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,200 Well, someone build it on 2 a.m. today, tonight actually. 490 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,240 - Yeah, occasionally someone does that, I don't know why. 491 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,200 - Not me. - Yeah, obviously. 492 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,320 Yeah, you respect your sleep. 493 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,440 So that's CI, is there some errors, 494 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:29,000 a bigger area that you constantly improve 495 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,920 besides those dev tools and CI and code? 496 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,560 - Yeah, I think we talked about the majority 497 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,720 of what I've been working on over the past year or two. 498 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,160 So it is the improvements of the code base 499 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,400 and then performance. 500 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,880 and performance is, sometimes it's like 501 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,560 stacking a bunch of five, 10% improvements, 502 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,800 which is like, doesn't sound like much, 503 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,900 but you have five or 10% improvements 504 00:25:57,900 --> 00:26:00,480 and then suddenly everything is so much faster. 505 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,960 And sometimes, some new technology 506 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,040 that we can easily use becomes available. 507 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,240 So we recently shipped something that's called Hermes 508 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,700 on our iOS app. 509 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:16,180 And that made it three times faster to launch 510 00:26:16,180 --> 00:26:18,260 on iPhones and iPads, 511 00:26:18,260 --> 00:26:23,260 and twice as fast to like move between like views in the app. 512 00:26:23,260 --> 00:26:25,540 And it was just a few days of work. 513 00:26:25,540 --> 00:26:27,500 Like it's just something that became available 514 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:30,580 and I could use it and bam, three times faster, 515 00:26:30,580 --> 00:26:33,500 which is a gigantic difference. 516 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:35,520 And it's so fast. 517 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,780 It's so fast that iOS doesn't even finish animating 518 00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:41,200 and the app is already launched. 519 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,800 And you know, all these iOS native apps, 520 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,240 they're not even that fast. 521 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,760 - Yeah, and what was really nice 522 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,640 and actually surprised for me, 523 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,600 like it would be even more surprised for me 524 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:53,600 like two years ago, 525 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,640 but now after releasing app every week, 526 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,920 I see that like we just, 527 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,000 there's new piece of technology, 528 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,580 like external framework or like this Hermes, 529 00:27:04,580 --> 00:27:07,320 we include it in our code base, yes? 530 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:08,680 And nothing blew up. 531 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,500 - Yeah, right. 532 00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:10,960 - Yeah, that was strange, yeah? 533 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,160 It's just worked. 534 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,440 - Yeah, part of that is external technology 535 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,440 getting better and better. 536 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,800 Part of that is our tooling getting better and better. 537 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,040 Part of that is just our skills getting improved. 538 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,820 But yes, in this case, I made the changes. 539 00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:30,120 Kamil and me just tested it ourselves for a week, 540 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,320 just used the app with this change. 541 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,960 And then we all use it internally for a week 542 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,120 and then we shipped it and nothing blew up. 543 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,520 - I can imagine a customer right now, 544 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,240 - I rise up is crashing because-- 545 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,760 - Yeah, my favorite, yeah, that's true. 546 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,120 My favorite thing was that the only error 547 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:52,400 that Kamil, our QA person found, 548 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,400 was that his plan, his Nozbe personal team, 549 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,160 was valid until the year 2100. 550 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,160 And it didn't say 2100, but 2099. 551 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,480 - Oh, no. 552 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,640 (laughing) 553 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,680 - Yeah, yeah, so we stole a one year 554 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,360 of premium account from him. 555 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,120 - Exactly, that was the one issue. 556 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,400 - Yeah, that was, yeah, that's the critical issue. 557 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,280 But we fixed that, right? 558 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,120 - Yeah. 559 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,560 - So let's talk HEM, because as I mentioned, 560 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,400 every week you meet with the developer 561 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,800 that is currently on HEM. 562 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,140 - Yeah, which is Horizon Expanding Month. 563 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:35,760 - Yeah, what's that about? 564 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,440 What is the purpose of this? 565 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,320 because this is like we have three front-end developers, 566 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:42,160 not counting you. 567 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,620 - I'm a three and a half. 568 00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:44,460 We can say three and a half. 569 00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:45,300 - Three and a half, yeah. 570 00:28:45,300 --> 00:28:48,980 Okay, you can be a half of a front-end developer, yeah? 571 00:28:48,980 --> 00:28:49,820 - Yeah. 572 00:28:49,820 --> 00:28:53,880 - And two of them are assigned to projects within a cycle 573 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,080 to implement features usually. 574 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,760 And one of them is always on the scam 575 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,360 and like 50% internally, 576 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,680 50% of his time he's supposed to spend 577 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,680 on expanding his area of responsibility within the app. 578 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,520 And the rest like for on Kaizen events 579 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,760 or implementing small improvements 580 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,080 that actually can be done within one day 581 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,120 or fixing like major bugs, 582 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,400 support, reply to support tickets. 583 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,760 - First of all, if I remember correctly, 584 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,600 I came up with the Horizen Expanding Month name 585 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,160 and it was supposed to be a joke. 586 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,160 It was supposed to be making fun of corporate newspeak, 587 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,600 but it stuck by accident, but we just call it Hem. 588 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,160 Like when you expand the, when you expand the Hem, 589 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,180 it just, gross name. 590 00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:51,240 I don't like it. 591 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,320 Anyway, yes, so the idea was that, you know, 592 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,420 it's great and all to build features 593 00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:00,480 and ship them to our customers 594 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,480 and customers are happy when you see new features. 595 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,480 The problem is that features is all that customers see. 596 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:15,680 Like it's what they say they want most of the time. 597 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,420 But the problem is that there's many different things 598 00:30:19,420 --> 00:30:21,760 around the process of building software 599 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,960 that are not directly visible to our customers. 600 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,720 But if you neglect them, things deteriorate over time. 601 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,640 and we talked about this already. 602 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,880 For example, we found it somehow somewhat difficult 603 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,640 to plan bug fixing. 604 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,080 So sometimes there's just bugs in the app 605 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,480 and bugs can be a lot of things. 606 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,400 Sometimes they're like, some of them are minor, 607 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,640 some of them are major, but even the minor bugs, 608 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,980 if something is just misaligned and just looks ugly, 609 00:30:54,980 --> 00:30:57,060 but isn't there someplace deep down 610 00:30:57,060 --> 00:31:00,180 that almost no one ever sees, then that's one thing. 611 00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:02,780 And then you can call the bug "minor", 612 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:05,500 but you see it every day and it's really annoying. 613 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:09,980 So what that means is that over time, the list of bugs, 614 00:31:09,980 --> 00:31:14,520 the stuff we could possibly fix just grows very large, 615 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,320 even though the app is mostly fine. 616 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,060 Like, yes, there's a couple of things to fix, 617 00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:19,640 but it's mostly fine. 618 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,740 And yet there's a long list of bugs 619 00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:25,040 and you have to decide which of them to fix. 620 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,480 It's often not easy before you start working on it 621 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,760 to decide how easy it is to fix. 622 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,980 Sometimes a major bug will take 15 minutes to fix 623 00:31:35,980 --> 00:31:37,600 once you get around to it. 624 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,960 Sometimes a minor thing that you can just ignore 625 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,960 and no one will notice would take hours or days of work. 626 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,960 And that's part of the reason why it's kind of difficult 627 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,600 to assign developers to work on fixing bugs. 628 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,240 So improving quality in that way, 629 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:03,240 by removing errors, imperfections. 630 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,640 It's just hard to schedule, 631 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,520 it's hard to pick what to work on. 632 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,580 So that's one of the reasons why we thought, 633 00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:14,500 okay, we need to do that. 634 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,240 Like we need to spend some time working on that. 635 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:18,480 It can't be the only thing 636 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,160 because we could just be fixing and fixing 637 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:26,160 and people wouldn't see that it's getting better. 638 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,300 So we need to be fixing things. 639 00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:32,420 Then there's technological aspects like the team members, 640 00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:34,160 they have to be growing, 641 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,860 they have to be improving and learning new things. 642 00:32:36,860 --> 00:32:40,460 It can't be like it can't be me 643 00:32:40,460 --> 00:32:41,700 building all the infrastructure. 644 00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:43,380 Yeah, I'm in charge of all the infrastructure, 645 00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:46,500 but there are certain areas that while I have to delegate. 646 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:51,340 So each team member has some extra responsibility 647 00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:54,220 that's like purely in terms of technology. 648 00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:56,840 But it takes time to learn and improve. 649 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,980 And the learning and improving and experimenting 650 00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:04,220 with things in that technological area, 651 00:33:04,220 --> 00:33:06,420 like it's not something you can easily schedule. 652 00:33:06,420 --> 00:33:07,540 You know, you can't say, 653 00:33:07,540 --> 00:33:12,180 oh, you work for two weeks on that to build X. 654 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:16,700 Like it's kind of an open-ended endeavor, right? 655 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:20,380 It takes time, you know that, but you can't, 656 00:33:20,380 --> 00:33:21,660 like with features say, 657 00:33:21,660 --> 00:33:24,060 we're gonna work on a week on that feature 658 00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:26,100 and whatever comes of it, we ship. 659 00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:27,940 Hence, HEM, right? 660 00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:31,380 We rotate between the team members 661 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:34,340 and so that everyone has time, 662 00:33:34,340 --> 00:33:37,980 like dedicated time to improve their skills in that area, 663 00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:40,380 experiment with new things, 664 00:33:40,380 --> 00:33:49,140 bug fixing, the person on ham plays a larger role doing code reviews. 665 00:33:49,140 --> 00:33:55,100 Everyone does code reviews, but the person on ham has slightly more time that can be 666 00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:56,940 easier to find to do reviews. 667 00:33:56,940 --> 00:33:57,940 And then Kaizen. 668 00:33:57,940 --> 00:34:03,640 Yeah, it's me, but there's not enough of me to do all of that. 669 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,600 And also this is a thing about culture, right? 670 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,440 It's not just about spending time to continuously improve. 671 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,440 It's people need months to start changing their mindsets 672 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,840 and start noticing the things that can be improved 673 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,220 instead of doing things 674 00:34:21,220 --> 00:34:23,780 the way we've been doing them for years. 675 00:34:23,780 --> 00:34:28,780 So it's important that these sort of extra responsibilities, 676 00:34:28,780 --> 00:34:31,360 that everyone does some of that. 677 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,940 And the reason why it rotates is because it's kind of hard 678 00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:40,500 to be like, "Hey, you have an appetite of one week 679 00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,180 "to work on that feature." 680 00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:45,660 But then also, "Hey, you can't be focused 100% 681 00:34:45,660 --> 00:34:50,660 "on that task, like that specific and time-bound task, 682 00:34:50,660 --> 00:34:53,960 "because also, you know, do the code reviews, 683 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,720 "oh, check out this bug to fix, 684 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:59,060 "and hey, are you coming to Kaizen today?" 685 00:34:59,060 --> 00:35:00,220 Right? - Yeah. 686 00:35:00,220 --> 00:35:02,180 - It's just hard to be, 687 00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:06,060 It's hard to simultaneously be in the mindset, 688 00:35:06,060 --> 00:35:11,060 in the mode of mind of focused task-based work. 689 00:35:11,060 --> 00:35:13,740 This is the task and this is the timeframe. 690 00:35:13,740 --> 00:35:18,740 And in the mindset of open-ended improvements 691 00:35:18,740 --> 00:35:22,220 and learning and exploration and stuff like that. 692 00:35:22,220 --> 00:35:26,220 It's just two different types of work, 693 00:35:26,220 --> 00:35:28,660 types of mental activity. 694 00:35:28,660 --> 00:35:30,860 Hence, it is easier to rotate that 695 00:35:30,860 --> 00:35:32,740 between every team member, 696 00:35:32,740 --> 00:35:37,260 then have people split their days or their weeks 697 00:35:37,260 --> 00:35:40,100 between these responsibilities. 698 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:42,100 - That's really healthy too, 699 00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:44,020 because we have three front-end developers, 700 00:35:44,020 --> 00:35:46,660 as I mentioned, and we work in five week cycles, so. 701 00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:47,500 - Three and a half. 702 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,020 - So it's three and a half, yeah. 703 00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:52,260 We work in five week cycles, 704 00:35:52,260 --> 00:35:54,820 which is almost a month. 705 00:35:54,820 --> 00:35:58,180 So that's why it's horizontal expanding month. 706 00:35:58,180 --> 00:36:02,580 So each developer has one ham per three months. 707 00:36:02,580 --> 00:36:03,420 Yeah. 708 00:36:03,420 --> 00:36:06,220 So that's, I think that's the healthy balance. 709 00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:10,800 And also you mentioned that takes months to change habits, 710 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,660 to teach our developers better habits, 711 00:36:14,660 --> 00:36:18,100 to figure out places that can be improved. 712 00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:20,140 And I can see that in my work, 713 00:36:20,140 --> 00:36:24,380 like when I remember how we used to develop Nozbe Personal, 714 00:36:24,380 --> 00:36:27,960 I was so much needed to giving feedback 715 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,660 to developers every day. 716 00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:32,840 And now I'm just needed in the week 717 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,940 when we plan the cycle actually, 718 00:36:34,940 --> 00:36:38,020 and a day after in the next week 719 00:36:38,020 --> 00:36:39,700 when we do kickoff meetings. 720 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:43,080 And after that, developers are leaders of the project 721 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,280 and they really make great decisions, 722 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,400 not only like from the technical point of view, 723 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,400 but they grow in sense of design decisions also. 724 00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:57,700 And I'm really glad how the whole process works. 725 00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:58,620 - I think I lied. 726 00:36:58,620 --> 00:37:00,760 I think it's like years, not months. 727 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,020 I'm really proud of our team 728 00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:08,340 and how far we've come with this. 729 00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:13,340 It is very easy to create in companies these bottlenecks, 730 00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:17,200 these decision bottlenecks, 731 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,500 where people are just waiting on a designer 732 00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,640 or a manager to decide on something. 733 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:31,440 And it doesn't just slow things down, but it just creates worse outcomes because you're 734 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,400 a person doing the work. 735 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,900 It might be development, but it can be any industry, right? 736 00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:39,900 Any job. 737 00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:40,900 You're doing the work. 738 00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:47,400 You're spending weeks just being immersed in it, understanding the problem, how to solve 739 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,480 with possible approaches. 740 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,740 And then you're waiting for that one guy who spent hours 741 00:37:53,740 --> 00:37:55,040 and not weeks working on it. 742 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,120 And they might not have the full picture. 743 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,120 Yeah, they might be specialized in design or management. 744 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,440 They know things, they're experienced in things you're not. 745 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:07,320 That's true. 746 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,860 But as the person doing the work, 747 00:38:09,860 --> 00:38:13,560 you tend to have the broadest picture of, 748 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,840 hey, okay, I could do this and it would be a good result, 749 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,440 but it will take me one week to get this done. 750 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,160 Or I could do this and it's almost as good, 751 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,100 but I can get it done in an hour, right? 752 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:27,380 And when you have these decision bottlenecks 753 00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:31,680 with these extra decision makers, 754 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,480 it again slows things down and creates worse outcomes 755 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,640 because it's hard to compress your weeks of experience 756 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,620 working on something into something you can quickly express 757 00:38:43,620 --> 00:38:47,820 to a decision maker to approve or disapprove. 758 00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:50,760 But at the same time, just people are really not used 759 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,380 to leading and making their own decisions in organization. 760 00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:58,380 People are employed and they see, 761 00:38:58,380 --> 00:39:00,700 okay, I need to know my place. 762 00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:03,300 You know how companies, organizations, institutions 763 00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:05,900 are like, people are very territorial, 764 00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:07,920 people are in a hierarchy. 765 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,180 So people are not used to leading, making decisions. 766 00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:15,320 they might have experiences that when they tried, 767 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,280 didn't end up well for them. 768 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,160 So it really takes a lot of effort, 769 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,160 not just empower people by saying, 770 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,800 hey, you can do it and you should do it, 771 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,680 and you're the best person to make that decision, 772 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,680 but to actually convince someone and show them 773 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:37,360 and give them the opportunity to have experience 774 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,880 with making these decisions, 775 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,920 to show them that, yeah, you can do it. 776 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,120 So I feel like we've talked about 777 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,520 like these sorts of ideas for years. 778 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,400 And it took us years to somehow something changed 779 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,520 and it kind of clicked. 780 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,580 And like we made some process changes, 781 00:39:57,580 --> 00:39:59,680 talked to people, explained it to them, 782 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,000 explained it over and over and over again 783 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,820 until they got it. 784 00:40:03,820 --> 00:40:06,760 And they just run with things. 785 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,280 And I don't need to be bothered all the time. 786 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,220 you don't need to be bothered all the time. 787 00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:13,380 Michael certainly doesn't need to be bothered all the time 788 00:40:13,380 --> 00:40:17,660 with just minutia of building a new feature. 789 00:40:17,660 --> 00:40:18,660 It's fine. 790 00:40:18,660 --> 00:40:21,540 The developer can get this done. 791 00:40:21,540 --> 00:40:22,380 - Exactly. 792 00:40:22,380 --> 00:40:25,380 And even if they had initially 793 00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:28,620 when we started to encourage them 794 00:40:28,620 --> 00:40:30,020 to make their own decisions, 795 00:40:30,020 --> 00:40:31,840 even in short term, 796 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,940 the first decisions weren't good, 797 00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:37,700 but it's a long-term investment. 798 00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:40,420 they learn how to make better decisions. 799 00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:43,580 And yesterday when we had a kickoff meetings 800 00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:45,460 about calendar improvements, 801 00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:48,220 we want to improve some of our calendar view in the app. 802 00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:50,460 And actually, yeah, 803 00:40:50,460 --> 00:40:53,180 the people want to have easier access to calendar. 804 00:40:53,180 --> 00:40:56,820 So the obvious thing is to add a possibility 805 00:40:56,820 --> 00:40:59,320 to have calendar in favorites. 806 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,240 But for some technical reasons, 807 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:07,240 because task list is a very complicated form of living 808 00:41:07,380 --> 00:41:08,380 in the cold. 809 00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:09,380 Yeah. 810 00:41:09,380 --> 00:41:11,980 So it's not that easy. 811 00:41:11,980 --> 00:41:20,220 But actually, Miho, who is the leader of this project, just made an idea, "Okay, what if 812 00:41:20,220 --> 00:41:21,900 we do X? 813 00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:28,300 It will take 15 minutes, and it might have a high chance to actually do the job." 814 00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:31,960 And that is exactly what we want. 815 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:38,200 make good decisions, they are not afraid to experiment and see if even, okay, let's see 816 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:44,480 if something that takes 15 minutes, one hour can do the job instead of doing something 817 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,760 that can take one week, as you said. 818 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:47,760 Yeah. 819 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:54,640 You know, as I'm listening to ourselves talking about these different ideas, I think it's 820 00:41:54,640 --> 00:42:00,240 important to say that they're not exactly completely independent ideas. 821 00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:02,780 they form a coherent whole. 822 00:42:02,780 --> 00:42:05,920 I hate to use this word 823 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,900 because it's overused in the corporate newspeak, 824 00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:11,600 but it's a different paradigm of organizing our work. 825 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,540 It's a different paradigm of building software. 826 00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:16,220 It's like with, I mentioned lean manufacturing, 827 00:42:16,220 --> 00:42:18,040 Toyota has been doing that for decades 828 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,380 and they're doing fine 829 00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:22,060 and people are having a hard time copying them 830 00:42:22,060 --> 00:42:26,280 because you can take a la carte different ideas from it 831 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,380 and they help, they're interesting, 832 00:42:28,380 --> 00:42:29,940 but when you have the whole, 833 00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:32,780 it really starts to make the most sense. 834 00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:36,940 So here, notice how it plays together 835 00:42:36,940 --> 00:42:39,780 with us shipping every week. 836 00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:42,500 Like those are not two disparate ideas. 837 00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:45,860 They form a coherent idea of how you want to work. 838 00:42:45,860 --> 00:42:49,220 A developer makes their own decisions 839 00:42:49,220 --> 00:42:53,700 and we ship, we ship Chippo in small chunks. 840 00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:57,180 We don't design and build the best version 841 00:42:57,180 --> 00:42:58,820 of a feature that we can come up with 842 00:42:58,820 --> 00:43:03,260 because that takes a disproportionate amount of time. 843 00:43:03,260 --> 00:43:06,860 So some decisions might not be the best at first, 844 00:43:06,860 --> 00:43:10,660 or like, we stumble, but okay, 845 00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:12,700 we've spent a week working on that feature 846 00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:15,500 and that's it for now and it's already better. 847 00:43:15,500 --> 00:43:18,500 And yeah, this decision, that was bad, 848 00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,340 we shouldn't have done it this way, 849 00:43:20,340 --> 00:43:21,500 but guess what, it's fine. 850 00:43:21,500 --> 00:43:24,260 It's not like someone made some decision 851 00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:29,060 And that got us into a six month project. 852 00:43:29,060 --> 00:43:31,140 And at the end of it, we ship. 853 00:43:31,140 --> 00:43:33,660 Like, no, we've worked on something 854 00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:36,740 and sometimes it's great, sometimes it's fine, 855 00:43:36,740 --> 00:43:40,060 sometimes it's eh, but we ship every week 856 00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:43,420 and we'll get to it again. 857 00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:46,380 So this idea of, you know, 858 00:43:46,380 --> 00:43:51,380 him and developers being leaders of these feature projects 859 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,280 that plays together with Kaizen, 860 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,920 it plays together with us shipping every week. 861 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,720 - Yeah, but the funny thing is that Kamil, 862 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:03,960 our QA person, he was always like to test everything 863 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,060 before shipping, et cetera. 864 00:44:05,060 --> 00:44:07,640 And now he is the person responsible 865 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,120 for driving our shipping process every week, actually. 866 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,460 - Yeah. - Yeah, so. 867 00:44:12,460 --> 00:44:18,440 So he actually shipped 46 updates last year. 868 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,440 All right, I think we can slowly wrap up this episode. 869 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,640 So Radek, tell me, because as we said, 870 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,640 your role in our company in building current Nozbe, 871 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,680 our main product right now, evolved through all of this years 872 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,680 so you had a big impact on design, how Nozbe works, 873 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:47,240 and now you have a huge impact on the whole technology stack 874 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,560 and our dev tools and how the code base is organized, 875 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,040 et cetera, et cetera. 876 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,320 This Nozbe is really, you can say it's your child, 877 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,840 but what's your favorite feature of Nozbe? 878 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,680 - Well, you know, you're not supposed to have favorites. 879 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,480 (laughs) 880 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,640 - I guess. 881 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,200 - I don't think I have one favorite feature, 882 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:12,200 but something that I really care about deeply 883 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,280 is these little power user improvements. 884 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,440 So not things that every customer is using, 885 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,120 but something I'm using because I use 886 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,440 the new Nozbe everyday for the last four years, right? 887 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,160 Well, since its inception pretty much. 888 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,040 And so I love the keyboard shortcuts 889 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,160 and there's more keyboard shortcuts coming. 890 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,400 And then you jump to, which I think will ship next Monday 891 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,360 or we've already shipped, I don't remember. 892 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,680 - Yeah, it's already shipped actually. 893 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,200 The one thing we didn't ship is highlighting. 894 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,040 - Highlighting, okay. 895 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,640 - Highlighting for search and fuzzy search. 896 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,360 - So I recently made some improvements 897 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,180 to the jump to feature, 898 00:45:54,180 --> 00:45:56,860 which makes it so fast and so fun 899 00:45:56,860 --> 00:45:59,760 to just go to different places in the app. 900 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,740 I don't have to click around, look for tasks. 901 00:46:03,740 --> 00:46:08,160 If I remember the name and I just hit Command + K 902 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,800 and I type in like two or three or four characters, 903 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,360 not just the full name, 904 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,800 but a few characters that match that's called fuzzy search. 905 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,400 And we have this highlighting that will ship, 906 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:21,580 I think next Monday, 907 00:46:21,580 --> 00:46:26,580 that kind of shows why the search results show up. 908 00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:28,780 And it's very fast now. 909 00:46:28,780 --> 00:46:32,120 And so, within two seconds, 910 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,740 I can go between tasks and projects 911 00:46:34,740 --> 00:46:36,160 and just places it in the app 912 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,560 without moving my hands off of the keyboard. 913 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,200 And it's glorious. 914 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,480 - Yeah, I really liked that too. 915 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,800 and I started to using even more 916 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,800 after your recent performance improvements. 917 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,860 Yeah, I would say now it's my second favorite 918 00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:55,220 after incoming, because incoming is just a magic. 919 00:46:55,220 --> 00:46:59,240 I think that's it for this week. 920 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:00,920 Tadek, tell me what day is tomorrow? 921 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,280 - Tomorrow is a mighty Friday. 922 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,000 - Exactly, mighty Friday. 923 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,680 So make a, do your weekly review, 924 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,240 plan priorities for next week, 925 00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:12,040 and to learn something new to have a great weekend. 926 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,880 We actually recently launched a new website 927 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,680 about our Mighty Friday, 928 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,280 so you can check it out on nosbe.com/friday. 929 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,240 And if you enjoyed this episode, 930 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:26,680 please feel free to help support this podcast, 931 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,960 either by sharing it with a friend, 932 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,600 leaving us a nice review in Apple Podcasts, 933 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:34,920 or by just signing up for our Nozbe app. 934 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,160 And that's it for today. 935 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:37,440 Say goodbye, Radek. 936 00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,440 Bye! 937 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:45,400 This episode has not been created in the office, because in Nozbe there is no office. 938 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,640 Your hosts were Laphroso Sowolewski and Ladosławie Trushevski. 939 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,840 All the links and show notes you can find on no office.fm/36. 940 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:59,480 The whole production process of this episode has been coordinated in a project in Nozbe 941 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,480 app. 942 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,680 Control is good, but trust and transparency are so much better. 943 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,200 Thank you and see you in two weeks. 944 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:15,800 Remember to have a mighty fly day! 945 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,380 (upbeat music) 946 00:48:18,380 --> 00:48:20,960 (upbeat music) 947 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,540 (upbeat music) 948 00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:25,420 (upbeat music)