WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:32.228 --> 00:00:33.138 Kevin Griffin: Welcome back to the show. 00:00:33.138 --> 00:00:33.638 Everyone. 00:00:33.638 --> 00:00:34.998 It's commentary time. 00:00:35.318 --> 00:00:38.408 Sean, Chad, I hope you guys are doing well today. 00:00:38.698 --> 00:00:39.968 You're smiling faces. 00:00:40.278 --> 00:00:47.528 Uh, now this is very meta for the podcast, but we're currently in the middle of one 00:00:47.528 --> 00:00:49.788 of our multithreaded income challenges. 00:00:50.148 --> 00:00:54.298 So it's been a very exhausting week of working with the folks who 00:00:54.298 --> 00:00:55.598 are in that challenge right now. 00:00:55.598 --> 00:00:58.438 They're trying to build their first side hustle. 00:00:58.698 --> 00:01:04.408 And it's kind of exciting to see this new energy come in and really you want 00:01:04.408 --> 00:01:05.998 to see them go off and do great things. 00:01:06.388 --> 00:01:10.718 And if you're out there listening and you are interested in a free 00:01:11.248 --> 00:01:17.678 challenge where myself, Chad and Sean are going to kick your butt into 00:01:17.768 --> 00:01:19.948 doing something, whatever it might be. 00:01:19.998 --> 00:01:22.368 And that's part of the challenge is figuring out what you want to do. 00:01:22.778 --> 00:01:24.028 You should go to. 00:01:25.523 --> 00:01:26.023 mti. 00:01:26.023 --> 00:01:29.593 to slash challenge and get on the list for the next challenge. 00:01:29.593 --> 00:01:33.753 We're going to run here in, uh, well, depending on when you listen to this 00:01:34.263 --> 00:01:38.123 in the near future, but that's not what we're here to talk about today. 00:01:38.123 --> 00:01:42.823 We want to talk about the last episode with Mr. 00:01:42.833 --> 00:01:47.253 James Q quick, and get the Q. 00:01:47.253 --> 00:01:51.463 And there was a whole conversation I had with James before we started 00:01:51.463 --> 00:01:54.743 recording that discussed why. 00:01:55.383 --> 00:02:02.033 Do you emphasize the Q and going back through James's social media 00:02:02.363 --> 00:02:06.373 through his YouTube, through everything, it's James Q quick. 00:02:06.383 --> 00:02:13.553 And I really appreciate the branding aspect of how you put yourself out 00:02:13.553 --> 00:02:14.993 there, how you control your narrative. 00:02:15.273 --> 00:02:20.613 And I think James did a really great job of kind of conversing why he's 00:02:20.813 --> 00:02:23.093 interested in controlling his narrative. 00:02:23.818 --> 00:02:25.848 So I think we should kind of start the conversation there. 00:02:25.848 --> 00:02:33.348 Uh, I'll start with I have always tried to be brand centric, like selling my brand, 00:02:33.928 --> 00:02:40.238 Kevin, Kevin, the developer, Kevin, the dot net guy, Kevin, the community guy. 00:02:40.578 --> 00:02:42.398 There's a lot of different narratives. 00:02:42.758 --> 00:02:50.548 I do a really poor job of focusing on how I want people in the world to see me and 00:02:50.548 --> 00:02:52.228 I really should spend more time on that. 00:02:52.228 --> 00:02:52.608 I should. 00:02:53.008 --> 00:02:58.378 Find an exercise or something to do, but I'm conscious of it. 00:02:58.648 --> 00:02:59.838 I don't do a good job of it. 00:02:59.868 --> 00:03:05.428 Like James, James does an amazing job of it, but I always felt this was important 00:03:05.508 --> 00:03:13.168 because when, especially in consulting, when people need certain skills, 00:03:13.468 --> 00:03:15.058 they go looking for specific folks. 00:03:15.498 --> 00:03:23.318 And if you're either not out there, you're quiet or you're selling the wrong persona. 00:03:24.488 --> 00:03:30.918 It's could be really easy for someone to overlook you, but if you focus down 00:03:30.938 --> 00:03:36.208 and you're very deliberate about how you want people in the world to, to see you. 00:03:36.828 --> 00:03:40.148 And so I want someone to see me as Kevin, the. 00:03:40.478 --> 00:03:48.198 net Azure guy, when they have a need for material I put out or for training 00:03:48.198 --> 00:03:53.288 I offer or for consulting services I provide, they know directly that. 00:03:53.558 --> 00:03:59.488 That is the guy to go to for, for a certain set of content, a 00:03:59.528 --> 00:04:01.608 certain, certain set of skills. 00:04:01.628 --> 00:04:08.118 Like if I'm going to quote Liam Neeson from Taken, I have a particular set of 00:04:08.118 --> 00:04:11.678 skills and I need people to know what those particular sets of skills are. 00:04:14.098 --> 00:04:18.108 Sean, I know you and I were chatting a little bit about this before we 00:04:18.108 --> 00:04:22.248 jumped on the call, but what's kind of your take on the, the branding aspect 00:04:22.318 --> 00:04:27.248 of anyone that's trying or should be trying to put themselves out there. 00:04:29.028 --> 00:04:32.568 Sean Merron: Well, the idea, and it's actually really important, not even 00:04:33.748 --> 00:04:38.998 for just the entrepreneurial zone or world, but also for the employment 00:04:38.998 --> 00:04:41.128 world, I'm very familiar with as well. 00:04:41.808 --> 00:04:44.498 So one of the things I do a lot of is interviews. 00:04:44.918 --> 00:04:45.978 I interview a lot of people. 00:04:45.978 --> 00:04:46.493 I also. 00:04:47.043 --> 00:04:48.783 Do some interviews from time to time as well. 00:04:48.783 --> 00:04:52.343 I try to try to do some just to kind of, you know, see where I'm 00:04:52.343 --> 00:04:56.153 at personally and my own skill sets, see what I'm capable of. 00:04:56.493 --> 00:05:01.223 And I've toyed around a lot, uh, with LinkedIn, with my LinkedIn profile. 00:05:01.233 --> 00:05:01.963 That's one place. 00:05:01.963 --> 00:05:05.113 I think a lot of people really don't pay a lot of attention to. 00:05:05.113 --> 00:05:08.823 So a tip for me would be pay more attention to your LinkedIn and update 00:05:08.823 --> 00:05:13.273 it and make it seem like, I mean, I really seem like you probably are 00:05:13.273 --> 00:05:14.543 this person, but maybe you don't. 00:05:14.733 --> 00:05:18.153 give yourself enough credit, but make it really seem like the, you know, the 00:05:18.153 --> 00:05:21.933 valuable person, the valuable skills, engineer, whatever you are, whatever you 00:05:21.933 --> 00:05:25.193 want to call yourself title that you want to be, or you want to get more jobs doing 00:05:25.523 --> 00:05:29.803 as update your LinkedIn to, to make it seem like you're, you're that person. 00:05:30.373 --> 00:05:33.333 And I actually own, I love how. 00:05:33.543 --> 00:05:37.953 He talked about the personal brand because I think probably what 90 percent 00:05:37.953 --> 00:05:39.293 of engineers probably own their name. 00:05:39.493 --> 00:05:42.463 com or something similar. 00:05:42.823 --> 00:05:43.463 Kevin Griffin: I wish I did. 00:05:43.533 --> 00:05:43.943 Yeah. 00:05:45.873 --> 00:05:46.843 Sean Merron: I have seanmarin. 00:05:46.843 --> 00:05:49.373 com, but guess where it goes to my LinkedIn. 00:05:49.733 --> 00:05:52.203 So it's easy enough for me when I'm out and about with people. 00:05:52.473 --> 00:05:55.223 If I make a good connection or something, I just tell them, Hey, go to seanmarin. 00:05:55.223 --> 00:05:55.513 com. 00:05:55.838 --> 00:05:57.738 And it redirects them to my LinkedIn. 00:05:57.748 --> 00:06:01.608 That's a way to get connected to me, send me a message or stay up to 00:06:01.608 --> 00:06:03.298 date on the things I'm working on. 00:06:03.578 --> 00:06:06.528 I don't do a good job of like actively posting on LinkedIn. 00:06:06.538 --> 00:06:09.098 That's something I think personally, I could probably do a little better 00:06:09.098 --> 00:06:12.898 at cause that really does start to create some authority more and more 00:06:12.978 --> 00:06:14.248 in your, not only your network. 00:06:14.268 --> 00:06:17.068 But you can do certain hashtags and such too. 00:06:17.068 --> 00:06:23.228 So people can see a lot more activity for the areas of work that you're posting 00:06:23.238 --> 00:06:27.478 about or at, you know, in all the time I know paid speaking was in keynotes 00:06:27.498 --> 00:06:31.748 was one of the things James, uh, Q quick mentioned, and we'll talk about that 00:06:31.748 --> 00:06:36.498 more here in a minute, but I guess there, cause I'm always going two different 00:06:36.498 --> 00:06:38.608 routes, so I have my main gig, right. 00:06:38.658 --> 00:06:39.928 Where I'm the VP of engineering. 00:06:40.338 --> 00:06:42.748 And then I also have my side hustle, entrepreneurial stuff 00:06:42.758 --> 00:06:43.878 always going on as well. 00:06:44.198 --> 00:06:48.328 I have a, uh, software consulting company that I run as well. 00:06:48.748 --> 00:06:51.698 And one of the things I'll put on there, believe it or not, I control 00:06:51.698 --> 00:06:52.888 the narrative of that, right? 00:06:52.938 --> 00:06:58.418 So I'll put on there, I've done work for a multi billion dollar fortune 100 companies 00:06:59.358 --> 00:07:04.938 because I have as an employee, but I've also been consulted for some, most of my 00:07:04.938 --> 00:07:07.818 consulting gigs have been for small to medium sized business, haven't done any 00:07:07.818 --> 00:07:09.618 large enterprise type consulting work. 00:07:10.213 --> 00:07:15.723 But I have, and I do have experience, um, you know, performing software jobs 00:07:15.743 --> 00:07:21.203 or, um, you know, managing engineers, outsourcing engineers, doing the 00:07:21.213 --> 00:07:25.563 work myself as an engineer in these large, large enterprise corporations. 00:07:25.583 --> 00:07:28.023 So that's something I can definitely put on my portfolio that I have 00:07:28.023 --> 00:07:31.703 experience working in so I could use that experience both in the consulting 00:07:31.703 --> 00:07:37.303 field and, um, and picking up new clients as well as, uh, pursuing the career 00:07:37.353 --> 00:07:39.193 corporate ladder track at the same time. 00:07:39.913 --> 00:07:43.273 And one of the things that I'm VP of engineering now, next step for me is CTO. 00:07:44.033 --> 00:07:47.273 So that's what I'm trying now. 00:07:47.273 --> 00:07:50.413 And after, actually, after the episode, I think it's something I've known I need 00:07:50.413 --> 00:07:54.283 to probably pay more attention to is that like personal image on LinkedIn, if that's 00:07:54.283 --> 00:07:57.503 the next step, maybe trying to control the narrative a little bit more around, 00:07:58.123 --> 00:08:01.533 uh, I don't know, like talking more about. 00:08:01.878 --> 00:08:04.748 The things I'm doing strategically for my company, right? 00:08:05.178 --> 00:08:10.608 And, uh, maybe the networking with other CTOs, like, you know, maybe 00:08:10.608 --> 00:08:13.328 a mastermind group or something with other CTOs connecting there. 00:08:13.338 --> 00:08:17.258 So the personal brand controlling that narrative, it it's important 00:08:17.258 --> 00:08:21.038 in both fields, you know, whether it be your employment field or your 00:08:21.048 --> 00:08:24.988 individual, you know, multi, uh, side thread that you got going on 00:08:26.223 --> 00:08:29.913 Kevin Griffin: One of the things you kind of triggered in me when you were just 00:08:29.913 --> 00:08:34.863 talking is yes, LinkedIn is incredibly important and I think it's more important 00:08:34.863 --> 00:08:36.363 than a lot of us give it credit for. 00:08:36.823 --> 00:08:42.023 I have a very good friend right now who is in the process of finding 00:08:42.023 --> 00:08:45.173 his next opportunity at that. 00:08:45.718 --> 00:08:49.108 C level position. 00:08:49.598 --> 00:08:55.838 And one of the things we have discussed is that LinkedIn is a critical part 00:08:55.838 --> 00:09:00.188 of the strategy, but it should have been more critical six months ago. 00:09:00.608 --> 00:09:03.668 And he should have been putting more time and effort into the 00:09:03.668 --> 00:09:05.458 LinkedIn, into the thought leadering. 00:09:05.458 --> 00:09:09.508 I know we hate buzzwords, but he should have been putting out content 00:09:09.948 --> 00:09:16.648 thinking about Cementing himself as an expert in a particular set of skills. 00:09:17.778 --> 00:09:19.608 Sean Merron: And actually talked about in the challenge. 00:09:20.143 --> 00:09:24.443 How I found someone to do some work for me through LinkedIn, you know, I looked 00:09:24.443 --> 00:09:28.643 up WordPress developer and I look at all the different profiles and from the 00:09:28.643 --> 00:09:32.103 profile can see their experience and I was able to gain some trust and authority 00:09:32.103 --> 00:09:35.043 by the different, you know, just really how their profile looked initially. 00:09:35.403 --> 00:09:38.353 And then reached out to a few interviewed him after that for the job 00:09:38.353 --> 00:09:39.433 and then pick someone through there. 00:09:39.453 --> 00:09:44.773 So you will be found right through platforms like linkedin and you do 00:09:44.793 --> 00:09:48.263 control the narrative on those you even in your resume if you're posting 00:09:48.263 --> 00:09:51.653 for a job you control all the The the lingo and verbiage and the way 00:09:51.653 --> 00:09:52.823 you're formatting that as well. 00:09:52.853 --> 00:09:54.783 So give yourself a little bit more credit 00:09:55.958 --> 00:09:57.258 Kevin Griffin: I'll give you a great example. 00:09:57.278 --> 00:10:04.228 I did a consulting gig long time ago that was, let's see, if I put in LinkedIn 00:10:04.238 --> 00:10:11.488 terms, I helped the United States air force with their, uh, training logistics. 00:10:12.238 --> 00:10:14.768 And that sounds really fancy. 00:10:14.818 --> 00:10:18.978 What I really did was I turned an access database into a SQL server 00:10:18.978 --> 00:10:24.338 database and added a not so fancy front end to the front of it. 00:10:24.658 --> 00:10:26.928 Now, if I'm just talking developer developer, that's 00:10:26.928 --> 00:10:27.888 probably what I'm gonna tell you. 00:10:27.888 --> 00:10:29.368 I was messing with access. 00:10:29.848 --> 00:10:31.048 I turned it into SQL server. 00:10:31.048 --> 00:10:34.978 We dealt with all this like data stuff, but if I'm talking to a business minded 00:10:34.978 --> 00:10:40.018 person or someone I potentially want to see as a, as a colleague or a person to 00:10:40.018 --> 00:10:44.508 hire me for higher level skills, I'm going to use the fanciest language possible. 00:10:44.508 --> 00:10:47.428 I'm trying to control that narrative to make. 00:10:47.788 --> 00:10:50.748 The simple thing I did seem a lot more complicated. 00:10:53.248 --> 00:10:53.268 Yeah. 00:10:53.268 --> 00:10:56.158 Do you have any thoughts on the personal branding conversation? 00:10:56.158 --> 00:10:57.748 Sorry, Sean and I have just been going back and 00:10:57.758 --> 00:10:58.738 Chad Carter: no, you're, you're good. 00:10:58.738 --> 00:11:01.708 I've enjoyed it because I've actually thought a lot about personal 00:11:01.708 --> 00:11:05.498 branding, but I don't feel that I've done a very good job at it. 00:11:05.868 --> 00:11:08.408 Um, you know, it's talking about being James Q. 00:11:08.438 --> 00:11:09.448 Quick everywhere. 00:11:09.448 --> 00:11:14.553 Well, I've had the handle, uh, coolness, if you will, but I don't spell it right 00:11:14.553 --> 00:11:15.993 because it's available everywhere. 00:11:16.303 --> 00:11:19.943 So that is K E W L N I S S. 00:11:20.513 --> 00:11:24.393 And if you're going to spell it wrong, you spell it all the way wrong, right? 00:11:24.743 --> 00:11:28.163 Um, but what was interesting was back in the days of Myspace. 00:11:28.493 --> 00:11:31.413 So this is forever ago, somebody else grabbed that name. 00:11:31.713 --> 00:11:35.963 And at the time I was, I don't know, I was in my, I don't remember how 00:11:35.963 --> 00:11:37.048 old it was, but it was, you know. 00:11:37.608 --> 00:11:43.538 However, however long ago, uh, Myspace was, um, so I was mid twenties, late 00:11:43.698 --> 00:11:45.138 twenties, I don't even know now. 00:11:45.298 --> 00:11:47.808 But anyway, it was a 14 year old girl that grabbed that. 00:11:48.168 --> 00:11:51.308 Uh, grabbed that name and I thought, so I have the same 00:11:51.308 --> 00:11:53.908 mentality as a 14 year old girl. 00:11:54.128 --> 00:11:54.508 That's good. 00:11:54.538 --> 00:11:55.048 That's wonderful. 00:11:55.298 --> 00:11:58.448 Uh, but other than my space, uh, everything else, all, everything else, 00:11:58.448 --> 00:12:00.078 I kind of grabbed, uh, grabbed that. 00:12:00.078 --> 00:12:03.788 But what I found is, um, when I was doing more things professionally, 00:12:03.908 --> 00:12:05.478 I try to rely more on my name. 00:12:06.218 --> 00:12:08.778 And, uh, but there's a lot of Chad Carter out there. 00:12:08.778 --> 00:12:11.858 There's a blues singer, Chad Carter, and there's a few other things. 00:12:12.178 --> 00:12:14.748 Um, and I do have one of the domains, chadcarter. 00:12:14.768 --> 00:12:17.378 net though, couldn't get, uh, uh, the dot com. 00:12:18.888 --> 00:12:25.013 I ended up having Um, or hearing about, uh, this thing called the Jake, 00:12:25.213 --> 00:12:27.873 JK five methods from Jenna Kutcher. 00:12:27.873 --> 00:12:29.903 So it's her method, JK five. 00:12:30.223 --> 00:12:33.663 And she talks about, it's mainly around Instagram is kind of where her focus was, 00:12:33.663 --> 00:12:37.273 but it's all about whatever, wherever you're putting your content out that 00:12:37.273 --> 00:12:41.053 you pretty much kind of have like five things that you're known for, if you will. 00:12:41.053 --> 00:12:44.213 And so when I did my site at check hard. 00:12:44.323 --> 00:12:44.603 net. 00:12:45.138 --> 00:12:48.388 I actually kind of put those five things on there, which was 00:12:48.388 --> 00:12:52.718 simply Christian, entrepreneurial, investor, technologist, and gamer. 00:12:53.318 --> 00:12:57.338 And then on my Twitter, or now X, I kind of have the same thing. 00:12:57.338 --> 00:12:59.568 I put a few other things in there, but I try to have that 00:12:59.568 --> 00:13:01.168 consistency between those two. 00:13:01.738 --> 00:13:05.348 Um, so from a personal branding thing, I definitely don't have that dialed in. 00:13:05.663 --> 00:13:09.383 Uh, like I should on the, on the flip side, I will mention this, I'm also kind 00:13:09.383 --> 00:13:15.303 of big into the NFT space and in the NFT space, uh, everybody has their profile 00:13:15.303 --> 00:13:20.663 picture as an actual, you know, uh, NFT, usually some cartoon imager or whatever, 00:13:20.873 --> 00:13:22.553 uh, for that project that they care about. 00:13:22.853 --> 00:13:25.943 What I'm really big into this one, uh, project called Drill Club. 00:13:26.363 --> 00:13:30.153 And all the people that I'm around have all these drill PFPs, it's 00:13:30.373 --> 00:13:32.283 like a mandrel, a cartoon mandrel. 00:13:32.703 --> 00:13:35.583 And I'm the only one, for the most part, that's really active 00:13:35.583 --> 00:13:36.753 in that community that doesn't. 00:13:36.753 --> 00:13:39.903 It's just my face, the same avatar image that I've had for 00:13:39.923 --> 00:13:41.943 the last, what, 10, 15 years. 00:13:42.478 --> 00:13:44.418 And I've done that for consistency. 00:13:44.418 --> 00:13:47.538 And I've told the folks that said, well, once, once these NFTs are selling 00:13:47.538 --> 00:13:53.898 for a certain price, uh, then I'll, I'll switch over, um, whatever I have. 00:13:53.948 --> 00:13:56.328 So when that does happen, then I'll actually switch to this 00:13:56.328 --> 00:13:57.498 cartoon picture across the board. 00:13:57.498 --> 00:13:59.858 And that's where, and that's where I'll be versus right now. 00:13:59.858 --> 00:14:00.438 It's this one thing. 00:14:00.438 --> 00:14:03.728 So while I'm not really good at the whole personal branding thing, I have 00:14:03.728 --> 00:14:08.498 tried to be consistent across the board because if you find me on YouTube or 00:14:08.498 --> 00:14:10.728 Twitter or LinkedIn, you know, it's me. 00:14:10.943 --> 00:14:15.513 Because it's the same black and white image, uh, that I have the, 00:14:15.513 --> 00:14:19.743 um, uh, the Jenna five, uh, JK five. 00:14:20.063 --> 00:14:26.353 Uh, the idea with that is you try to have, you know, the five things that you care 00:14:26.353 --> 00:14:29.603 about, the five top things you care about, because like on Instagram in particular, 00:14:29.603 --> 00:14:32.473 again, I'm not on Instagram, but when she's talking about putting things on 00:14:32.473 --> 00:14:36.703 Instagram that you actually post around those five different topics and you're 00:14:36.703 --> 00:14:39.093 not kind of wearing things out right now. 00:14:39.408 --> 00:14:42.958 My posts on Twitter again are all around Drill Club because that's 00:14:43.178 --> 00:14:45.138 the main circle that I'm in. 00:14:45.528 --> 00:14:48.908 It is there when what would be ideal from a personal brand is 00:14:48.908 --> 00:14:50.118 actually kind of back out of that. 00:14:50.408 --> 00:14:52.918 Some not be so focused on that and kind of, you know, 00:14:52.928 --> 00:14:54.608 filter other things in as well. 00:14:54.938 --> 00:14:59.078 Um, and yeah, LinkedIn, I just, I've not even fooled with LinkedIn in forever. 00:14:59.118 --> 00:15:01.378 So I was looking at something like five years old, I think 00:15:01.388 --> 00:15:02.708 last time on that thing. 00:15:03.448 --> 00:15:05.228 So, so yeah, I have some work to do there. 00:15:05.698 --> 00:15:09.508 Kevin Griffin: I was having a conversation with my friend Taylor Destin 00:15:09.718 --> 00:15:13.328 and I had a conversation with him specifically about like 00:15:13.328 --> 00:15:17.718 avatars and headshots and how, how do you present yourself? 00:15:17.858 --> 00:15:19.738 And one of the things he. 00:15:20.238 --> 00:15:24.958 He kind of leans in on, and I think if he's on the podcast now, you lean 00:15:24.958 --> 00:15:31.988 into this a little bit more is that you really want your, your avatar that you're 00:15:32.018 --> 00:15:38.028 putting out there to be your authentic self, um, and not not hide behind. 00:15:38.808 --> 00:15:41.378 Uh, because there are a lot of folks, we had David Neal a couple of weeks 00:15:41.378 --> 00:15:44.428 ago and there were, there was a time where everyone was supporting a 00:15:44.458 --> 00:15:48.668 David Neal avatar and that actually kind of goes against the theory. 00:15:48.698 --> 00:15:52.068 Like that's not authentic version of yourself. 00:15:52.148 --> 00:15:54.798 Um, you have to think of it from the other side. 00:15:54.798 --> 00:16:01.738 If I'm an employer or a potential, uh, person looking to hire you for 00:16:01.738 --> 00:16:07.248 consulting or for any other services, and I'm stalking your social media, 00:16:07.248 --> 00:16:09.248 whether it's your LinkedIn or. 00:16:09.573 --> 00:16:13.553 Twitter, Instagram, wherever you might be, because people do that. 00:16:13.693 --> 00:16:19.443 They, they stalk anyone that they might not know personally, and they see an 00:16:19.443 --> 00:16:22.483 image of me as a David Neal avatar. 00:16:22.493 --> 00:16:28.013 They might have a different opinion of me as they would with my, my 00:16:28.013 --> 00:16:30.503 avatar is just me smiling at an angle. 00:16:30.753 --> 00:16:35.648 Uh, And so they might have a different opinion of you, depending on that. 00:16:35.658 --> 00:16:39.558 And as we know, and because it's a conversation about branding and 00:16:39.558 --> 00:16:44.108 controlling your narrative, you, you want to be able to control that first 00:16:44.108 --> 00:16:46.088 impression that people have of you. 00:16:48.698 --> 00:16:48.878 Chad Carter: Yeah. 00:16:48.878 --> 00:16:51.098 And I would just say that it's important. 00:16:51.448 --> 00:16:54.038 That you have your brain that is authentic. 00:16:54.038 --> 00:16:58.388 So even if it is a avatar representation of yourself, a 00:16:58.388 --> 00:17:02.678 David Neal avatar or something of that nature, then that's fine. 00:17:03.188 --> 00:17:09.178 If those clients that you're trying to attract will be okay with that, right? 00:17:09.208 --> 00:17:13.268 So it also depends on what it is you're trying to do and who's going to be 00:17:13.268 --> 00:17:15.378 looking at your persona across the board. 00:17:15.378 --> 00:17:19.258 So you can be authentic self, have some flair, show what 00:17:19.258 --> 00:17:20.318 it is you want to show off. 00:17:20.738 --> 00:17:25.448 And either come to the conclusion that if somebody doesn't want to work with me 00:17:25.448 --> 00:17:29.098 because of this, then so be it, probably won't want to work with them anyway. 00:17:29.348 --> 00:17:34.588 Or, no, that's actually a very important thing, I should actually taper this 00:17:34.588 --> 00:17:37.958 down a little bit so I do present myself in such a particular way. 00:17:38.448 --> 00:17:40.818 I think it's something critical to keep in mind. 00:17:43.068 --> 00:17:45.238 Kevin Griffin: Well, one of the other things that James was talking about 00:17:45.248 --> 00:17:52.478 was he's trying to make this transition into being a paid speaker, and I have. 00:17:53.598 --> 00:17:57.798 Speaking publicly for on the edge of way too long. 00:17:58.218 --> 00:17:59.598 That's the official term. 00:17:59.938 --> 00:18:05.008 And I don't think I've been paid as a speaker other than a handful of 00:18:05.038 --> 00:18:09.338 times where it was an honorarium. 00:18:09.368 --> 00:18:10.438 So thank you for showing up. 00:18:10.438 --> 00:18:12.878 Here's payment for, for doing the thing you're doing. 00:18:13.298 --> 00:18:18.518 And those are usually at high, high ends, private technical 00:18:18.598 --> 00:18:23.278 conferences, but I've never been paid, I would say for a keynote or. 00:18:26.078 --> 00:18:31.758 Uh, at a community event to, to be a speaker more times than not. 00:18:32.118 --> 00:18:33.938 Those are volunteer basis. 00:18:34.048 --> 00:18:37.938 You might be covered for your travel and for your accommodations 00:18:37.938 --> 00:18:41.228 while you're there, but you're not paid for being there. 00:18:41.588 --> 00:18:46.508 And the conversation with James, he's trying to make that jump where he wants 00:18:47.068 --> 00:18:53.678 a company or maybe some sort of social group to pay him to come do a talk. 00:18:53.708 --> 00:18:55.608 And I think that's fascinating. 00:18:56.028 --> 00:18:56.448 And. 00:18:56.903 --> 00:18:59.963 I chalk it up to, I'm just jealous because I would love to achieve that too. 00:18:59.963 --> 00:19:05.233 I've just don't understand the process of how you go from speaking 00:19:05.233 --> 00:19:12.323 primarily at, let's call them, uh, speaking for free to speaking 00:19:12.323 --> 00:19:15.103 for pay, uh, over time, over time. 00:19:16.193 --> 00:19:19.023 Love to see if you guys have any thoughts on that. 00:19:20.133 --> 00:19:21.153 Sean, we'll start with you. 00:19:24.023 --> 00:19:24.373 Sean Merron: All right. 00:19:24.373 --> 00:19:31.123 Well haven't done as much speaking I came to the local user group out in 00:19:31.123 --> 00:19:33.533 Virginia beach that Kevin used to run. 00:19:33.543 --> 00:19:36.383 And then I eventually helped out with a little bit, the Hampton Roads. 00:19:36.593 --> 00:19:37.243 net user group. 00:19:38.383 --> 00:19:44.003 And that was probably the first time I have ever, um, spoken anything. 00:19:44.013 --> 00:19:45.383 Eventually I have a few months in. 00:19:45.938 --> 00:19:50.218 You were doing lightning rounds, like quick little speech or talks right before 00:19:50.228 --> 00:19:54.888 the main speaker would get on and do their talk and always encourage everybody, 00:19:54.888 --> 00:19:59.478 Hey, anything you're learning or, you know, doing sign up for a lightning talk. 00:19:59.508 --> 00:20:01.708 It doesn't have to be, you know, super polished or anything. 00:20:01.708 --> 00:20:03.498 It's not like you're the main presenter of the night, but you can 00:20:03.508 --> 00:20:06.728 hop up here for 10 minutes and do a quick little discussion on something. 00:20:06.738 --> 00:20:10.498 Get a little practice speaking and you'll probably learn something from 00:20:10.498 --> 00:20:12.368 speaking out of it at the same time. 00:20:12.898 --> 00:20:13.998 And that actually worked. 00:20:13.998 --> 00:20:16.098 I think I did one on TypeScript when I was learning TypeScript. 00:20:16.628 --> 00:20:18.838 Uh, got up in front of everybody and did a little lightning talk. 00:20:18.838 --> 00:20:20.698 It went pretty well, uh, enjoyed it. 00:20:21.048 --> 00:20:25.568 And that was really the first time ever, um, I think got in front of 00:20:25.598 --> 00:20:27.858 people physically to do a speech. 00:20:27.858 --> 00:20:29.868 I've done a lot virtually and it's completely different. 00:20:29.988 --> 00:20:32.078 I can talk to people virtually. 00:20:32.208 --> 00:20:36.688 I can do presentations online all day long, easy peasy, but in person, 00:20:36.688 --> 00:20:37.728 it's just a different feeling. 00:20:37.968 --> 00:20:41.568 And it's a lot, much different experience than I'm used to. 00:20:42.538 --> 00:20:45.768 Kevin Griffin: I have a book that I have not finished reading, so I'm not 00:20:45.768 --> 00:20:49.338 going to talk too much about it, but it was recommended to me, and it's 00:20:49.338 --> 00:20:55.028 called The Referrable Speaker, and the person who recommended it to me had gone 00:20:55.048 --> 00:21:00.268 from not being paid at all to do any speaking engagements to having regular 00:21:00.268 --> 00:21:01.928 speaking engagements for pay, so I 00:21:02.628 --> 00:21:07.018 I'm assuming it works for others and the chapter that I've gone through 00:21:07.318 --> 00:21:12.358 does talk about one of the key things to be in a, a paid speaker or becoming 00:21:12.358 --> 00:21:17.958 a paid speaker is that you can really only have one or two talks and it's one 00:21:18.038 --> 00:21:19.938 or two talks that you have just honed. 00:21:21.098 --> 00:21:27.128 Just to be so precisely presented that you hit very specific 00:21:27.128 --> 00:21:29.448 key marks and it's documented. 00:21:29.458 --> 00:21:34.908 You're going to talk about X, Y and Z, and then you take these talks and you start 00:21:35.018 --> 00:21:37.258 doing them for free or at a very low cost. 00:21:37.868 --> 00:21:43.388 And the big thing you do is after you've presented that talk and if it's well 00:21:43.388 --> 00:21:48.578 received, very much assuming it's well received, you go to the folks in charge 00:21:49.268 --> 00:21:52.838 and you ask them, can you refer me? 00:21:53.068 --> 00:21:58.348 To other people in this space who have similar, uh, similar groups. 00:21:58.898 --> 00:22:02.648 Uh, so a couple of case studies in the book are specifically about 00:22:02.708 --> 00:22:07.608 people who started with, had a talk, it was well received, was 00:22:07.608 --> 00:22:11.028 then referred to other groups where they went and did the same talk. 00:22:11.028 --> 00:22:14.128 They refined it, also refined it for the audience that they 00:22:14.128 --> 00:22:15.338 knew they were presenting to. 00:22:15.588 --> 00:22:19.638 So depending on what it is, if your group always. 00:22:20.473 --> 00:22:25.973 Talking to the developers, you're probably going to have one stick to stick to, but 00:22:25.973 --> 00:22:28.553 if you have something that's a little bit more generic, maybe you can talk 00:22:28.553 --> 00:22:32.003 to a group of doctors or a group of. 00:22:32.022 --> 00:22:38.082 Laborers or you name it, the, the group is going to change the, um, the 00:22:38.082 --> 00:22:42.182 dialogue of the talk a little bit and being aware of who, who you're going 00:22:42.182 --> 00:22:44.352 to talk to helps to talk immensely. 00:22:45.202 --> 00:22:47.662 But so I want to recommend the book for everyone out there. 00:22:47.662 --> 00:22:48.852 The Referrable Speaker. 00:22:49.252 --> 00:22:52.332 I haven't finished it, but if you finish it before I do, you 00:22:52.332 --> 00:22:53.612 should come talk to me about it. 00:22:55.592 --> 00:22:59.732 Think it's a good idea to kind of distinguish the types of paid speaking. 00:22:59.832 --> 00:23:02.302 , I think what James is trying to get into is the. 00:23:02.722 --> 00:23:05.022 You're going to pay me for a keynote. 00:23:05.612 --> 00:23:05.962 I want to get up. 00:23:05.962 --> 00:23:07.202 I don't want to talk for 45 minutes. 00:23:07.202 --> 00:23:07.702 I'm done. 00:23:08.292 --> 00:23:14.942 And you rinse, repeat that a couple of times a year that can turn into 00:23:14.942 --> 00:23:18.262 its own, very good form of income. 00:23:18.442 --> 00:23:24.092 Um, In the referable speaker, they talk about folks who basically create a full 00:23:24.092 --> 00:23:29.272 time job just out of speaking where they originally doing their day job and they 00:23:29.272 --> 00:23:34.942 started speaking on the side and the rates for their speaking went up and the number 00:23:34.942 --> 00:23:36.402 of inquiries for the speaking went up. 00:23:36.632 --> 00:23:40.762 So naturally, their full time job just becomes speaking, and I think that's 00:23:40.762 --> 00:23:42.662 what James is trying to transition to. 00:23:43.352 --> 00:23:46.222 Chad Carter: Yeah, and that does make sense, and I think a good path to that is 00:23:46.222 --> 00:23:47.912 if you have a book that's really popular. 00:23:48.292 --> 00:23:53.032 Um, so you think about like JavaScript, uh, the good parts, right, with Crawford. 00:23:53.352 --> 00:23:54.812 And he pretty much... 00:23:54.867 --> 00:23:59.157 I became a public speaker after that, doing keynotes and everything 00:23:59.157 --> 00:24:02.847 else, and a lot of other, uh, popular authors have as well. 00:24:03.107 --> 00:24:05.797 Uh, but I definitely wouldn't suggest folks go to write a book 00:24:05.807 --> 00:24:07.347 just to, just to go down that path. 00:24:07.707 --> 00:24:11.547 But, uh, that could be a benefit if you do decide to, uh, go down the 00:24:11.547 --> 00:24:13.437 painful process of writing a book. 00:24:14.932 --> 00:24:16.742 Kevin Griffin: And it goes back to the earlier conversation 00:24:16.742 --> 00:24:18.602 to, you gotta be visible. 00:24:18.602 --> 00:24:23.382 You have to have a public brand that you're controlling the narrative of. 00:24:23.772 --> 00:24:27.332 No one's going to hire you to speak if they don't know who you are. 00:24:27.652 --> 00:24:31.982 And especially if they don't know what you do or what you talk about. 00:24:32.602 --> 00:24:35.962 So it's extremely important to make sure you're putting yourself out 00:24:35.962 --> 00:24:38.072 there in some way, shape or form. 00:24:38.082 --> 00:24:42.062 And I know there's a lot of private people, a lot of introverts who 00:24:42.502 --> 00:24:48.332 shiver at the thought of being a public person, but in a lot of cases, 00:24:48.332 --> 00:24:53.112 that's the easiest way to succeed is just putting yourself out there and 00:24:53.752 --> 00:24:54.872 that way people know who you are. 00:24:54.892 --> 00:24:57.542 They know what, what kind of quantity you are. 00:24:59.047 --> 00:24:59.487 All right, guys. 00:24:59.487 --> 00:25:03.347 Well, it's been great catching up and talking about the 00:25:03.357 --> 00:25:05.467 James Q quick commentary. 00:25:05.927 --> 00:25:08.277 Looking forward to chatting with you guys next week and everyone 00:25:08.277 --> 00:25:09.397 else, thanks for listening.