WEBVTT

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Google removed a critical security feature

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from the Pixel XI,

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California's operating system level age

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verification bill has passed,

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and another controversy from a renowned

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name in the privacy space.

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All this and more coming up on This

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Week in Privacy, so stay tuned.

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welcome back to this week in privacy our

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weekly series where we discuss the latest

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updates with what we're working on in the

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privacy guides community and this week's

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top stories and data privacy and cyber

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security while answering viewer questions

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i am nate back from a couple weeks

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off and with me this week is jordan

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how have you been jordan being good really

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excited to dive into some stories this

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week we've got uh some very interesting

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topics to discuss this week

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Yeah, for sure.

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It's a little bit of a shorter week,

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but some pretty big stories along the way.

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I guess we'll jump right into it.

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We'll start by talking about Graphene OS.

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Man,

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this was a roller coaster of a story

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this week.

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So we mentioned a few weeks ago,

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right here on This Week in Privacy,

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that the Pixel XI had launched.

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And the big question at the time was

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like, will it support Graphene OS?

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And I'm actually in love with you guys.

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When we asked that question,

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I think we kind of...

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At least for me,

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it was kind of like, yeah, of course,

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it's almost certainly going to support

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Graphene OS or vice versa.

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Graphene will support the Pixel XI.

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Like, I don't see why it wouldn't.

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And, you know,

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it was just kind of like something to

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talk about, really.

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But to our surprise, earlier this week,

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Graphene posted that...

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They had,

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I'll scroll down here so you can actually

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see the tweet.

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They said,

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we have a partial port of Graphene OS

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to the Pixel XI series complete after a

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week of working on it,

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but we're unable to complete the port due

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to a lack of support for ARM hardware

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memory tagging in software, firmware,

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and near certainly hardware.

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It appears Google cut an important

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security feature.

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And then there's a whole thread,

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of course,

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that you can access on Blue Sky or

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Mastodon or Twitter,

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whatever your social media of choice.

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And...

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We have this excellent write-up here from

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Fria that we're referencing that kind of

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offers context and stuff like that.

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So what they're referring to is something

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called MTE,

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which is memory tagging extension.

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And it...

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It says here, Fria says that,

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so the way it works is it detects

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and prevents memory violations.

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It decides a random tag to each location

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of memory.

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And then if the memory is accessed,

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but the tags don't match,

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it will detect that.

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And then it'll block the program

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basically.

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And this used to be a really big

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deal.

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At one point,

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even Google themselves said it was like,

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seventy six percent of all vulnerabilities

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in Android.

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and therefore eliminating this, I mean,

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means getting rid of a whole class of

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vulnerabilities, right?

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And, uh,

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this is one of the rare moments where

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Google be Apple to something, um,

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a little bit of an arms race between

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the two,

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but Google rolled this out first with the

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pixel eight.

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And, uh, at this time,

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pixels are still the only Androids that

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actually have MTE.

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Apple rolled out their version called

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memory integrity enforcement on the iPhone

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seven series and max with the M five

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chip and above.

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And, uh,

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graphene did actually say in their,

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their threads that, uh,

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Apple's implementation was really good for

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the record.

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But Graphene considers this an essential

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part of their requirements.

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Like, again,

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if you go read that thread that I

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referenced,

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they –

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they basically say that like MT is now

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at this point really deeply integrated

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into graphene OS.

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So, uh, that's one of the requirements.

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So that's one of the reasons they support

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pixel and with the upcoming Motorola

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devices,

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that was one of the requirements is you

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have to start supporting MTE.

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So, um, yeah, it's, uh,

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it was really weird that Google got rid

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of this thing.

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Um,

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at the time graphene was saying to just

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like stick with the pixel eight,

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the pixel nine, nine and ten for now.

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But like I said,

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bit of a roller coaster of a week

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because there was actually an update a

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little later in the week.

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And I'm going to turn this one over

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to Jordan to give you guys the update.

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Yeah,

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so this week has definitely been quite a

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roller coaster, like Nate said.

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After Graphene OS had previously hit a

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roadblock porting to the Pixel XI due to

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that missing security feature,

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they found that the hardware does at least

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have bare minimum support for MTE.

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And, you know,

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they say that memory safety bugs made up

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around seventy six percent of

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vulnerabilities in Android at one point,

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according to Google's data and switching

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to memory safe languages like Rust helped

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them reduce that number significantly.

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So.

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With the release of Android,

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QPR two beta four,

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it appears support has been added back

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into the firmware.

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MTE support is still completely disabled

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in the OS.

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And the arm-sxty-four.no-mte is

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unconditionally passed by the firmware to

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the kernel according to Graphene OS.

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So this is kind of strange, right?

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Like Nate was saying,

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this is like it was originally completely

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missing and then suddenly it's being added

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back in this beta four release and

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permanently disabled by default.

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So this is kind of a strange thing

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for Google to be doing.

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It's

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Kind of also like touching on this as

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well,

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GrapheneOS did say that they did some

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initial testing and they found that there

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was no significant performance decrease

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from enabling this.

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They did say they did some preliminary

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testing.

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So we don't really know the specifics of

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this.

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And some people in our forum were actually

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discussing and saying, like, you know,

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could this have been disabled because of

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something more significant?

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Could this have been disabled because

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there's a...

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significant vulnerability in how this

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works or that this doesn't work correctly.

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And that's the reason why Google has

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disabled it.

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So there's definitely some interesting

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things being discussed there.

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I guess I'll throw it back to you,

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Nate.

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Like this is sort of an ongoing story,

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but it's interesting that this is being

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disabled,

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especially when Google is pushing for

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these new security chips,

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like the Titan M three, right?

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Yeah, definitely.

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Like we mentioned in the past surveillance

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reports,

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the Titan M three seemed really cool

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because it comes with this like post

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quantum secure boot and just kind of,

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you know,

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a lot of companies now are bracing for

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like the post quantum encrypted future.

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Apple's done a lot of work to upgrade

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like iMessage and stuff like that.

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So it just seems really weird that they

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like rolled out this new, which I think,

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I don't know if you mentioned this,

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but Graphene mentioned in their thread

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that I referenced that,

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basically mte like the support is there

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but the apps have to opt in opt

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into it it's uh it kind of went

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a little bit over my head but basically

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they were saying like for the most part

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it's not really like widely used but

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graphene enables it anyways which is also

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why graphene has the option to like you

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can go per app and like disable the

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mitigations because every once in a rare

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blue moon it will break an app here

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and there so you can go disable it

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but um but the point being is like

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it's not like um

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Like this was already something that was

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not heavily adopted.

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And it seems weird that Google wasn't,

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instead of like pushing for more people to

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require it,

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which is usually what companies do in

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these kinds of situations,

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especially like Google,

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where they control the Android platform

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and they can kind of pressure companies

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into doing that through some means or

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another.

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Instead of doing that,

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they just rolled it back completely,

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which yes,

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it's weird that they added some security

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and then rolled back others.

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They mentioned that the lack of MTE makes

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after first unlock state significantly

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less secure.

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So like the post quantum secure boot makes

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before first unlock better,

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but it was kind of a trade off

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and it was super weird.

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But I had a thought written down here.

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I'm not sure if you know the answer

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to this,

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but it seemed when they updated and they

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said that they did find support in the

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beta,

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it almost sounded like it was something

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that was going to be coming back to

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all pixels.

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Like maybe they temporarily disabled it

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for some reason.

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And then now they're going to add it

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back in.

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Do you know anything about that?

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Or am I just reading into it too

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much?

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I don't exactly know what you mean.

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From what the GraphiNoise team said,

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I believe,

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if we just read directly what they said

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in the master,

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like they posted stuff on Blue Sky Master

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and Twitter.

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I think, what did they say?

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While I'm looking for that,

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you can maybe discuss something.

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We have talked about it before,

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but this is also another reason why

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GraphiNoise is moving away from pixels

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entirely, right?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So originally,

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the original first thread they posted

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where they're like, hey,

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there's no MTE support,

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they kind of ended it by saying, like,

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we haven't decided what to do.

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We're still kind of figuring it out and

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researching.

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And one of the things they said was

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they might just have to skip the Pixel

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XI series altogether.

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because again,

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it's like MT is now such a vital

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part of the graphene code base.

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And, um, but they did mention it's,

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you know, they've, uh, and again,

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we announced that on the show as well.

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So stay subscribed everybody.

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But we announced when graphene was

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working, uh,

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announced their partnership with Motorola

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and they would be working with Motorola

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to, um,

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to make their own phones,

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basically to like have phones that were

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designed from the ground up.

00:10:01.331 --> 00:10:02.292
And they have a lot of say in

00:10:02.331 --> 00:10:03.592
how the phone gets designed and they have

00:10:03.673 --> 00:10:04.493
access to the code.

00:10:04.932 --> 00:10:06.153
So it's a lot easier to support it.

00:10:06.714 --> 00:10:11.196
And yeah, it's just, I don't know.

00:10:11.275 --> 00:10:12.417
I guess that's the good news is we

00:10:12.456 --> 00:10:14.258
do still have the Motorola phones that

00:10:14.278 --> 00:10:14.957
should be coming out.

00:10:15.057 --> 00:10:15.798
I believe,

00:10:16.339 --> 00:10:17.379
I didn't put it in the notes here,

00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:19.480
but I believe next year, early next year,

00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:20.500
they're still on schedule.

00:10:21.321 --> 00:10:22.522
The only drawback is we did cover,

00:10:22.562 --> 00:10:23.802
I think you guys covered a story last

00:10:23.841 --> 00:10:25.283
week, like a last minute story that,

00:10:26.255 --> 00:10:28.057
The Motorola phones are expected to cost

00:10:28.116 --> 00:10:28.998
more than the Pixels,

00:10:29.077 --> 00:10:31.058
probably starting over a thousand dollars.

00:10:31.359 --> 00:10:33.980
So pretty hefty phones.

00:10:35.140 --> 00:10:37.101
Hopefully the specs make it worthwhile,

00:10:37.741 --> 00:10:40.323
but yeah.

00:10:40.344 --> 00:10:41.965
Did you find what you were looking for

00:10:42.004 --> 00:10:42.325
there or?

00:10:44.044 --> 00:10:45.125
Yeah, I'm not seeing any,

00:10:45.205 --> 00:10:47.025
I'm not seeing anything that directly

00:10:48.225 --> 00:10:48.807
calls that out.

00:10:48.866 --> 00:10:51.288
I will say that like the GrapheneOS team

00:10:51.327 --> 00:10:53.727
has been trying to contact Google and

00:10:53.788 --> 00:10:55.509
trying to get information about what

00:10:55.548 --> 00:10:56.769
exactly is happening here.

00:10:57.389 --> 00:10:59.789
And basically everything they've gleamed

00:10:59.850 --> 00:11:01.951
so far is basically just been relying on

00:11:02.010 --> 00:11:05.913
leaks and insider info basically that

00:11:05.932 --> 00:11:06.852
they've been able to get.

00:11:06.893 --> 00:11:07.052
So

00:11:08.057 --> 00:11:09.697
It's a little frustrating that Google

00:11:09.717 --> 00:11:11.979
seems to just be kind of dragging their

00:11:11.999 --> 00:11:13.859
feet on responding about this and not

00:11:13.899 --> 00:11:15.639
really wanting to comment,

00:11:15.779 --> 00:11:17.779
which I guess it probably would look

00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:19.760
pretty bad if we found out that they

00:11:20.321 --> 00:11:22.942
purposely broke it or it's not functional

00:11:23.022 --> 00:11:24.022
on their devices now.

00:11:25.721 --> 00:11:26.621
It's pretty strange.

00:11:26.883 --> 00:11:29.802
But I think we should also just mention

00:11:29.822 --> 00:11:31.004
there's people commenting here.

00:11:31.024 --> 00:11:33.644
So do you guys read the YouTube comments?

00:11:33.744 --> 00:11:34.384
Yes, we do.

00:11:35.044 --> 00:11:36.524
We just try to cover the story.

00:11:37.304 --> 00:11:39.966
first but after after each story story we

00:11:40.027 --> 00:11:42.589
usually try and answer comments um there's

00:11:42.749 --> 00:11:44.610
a comment here from david good morning

00:11:44.629 --> 00:11:47.591
from melbourne australia good morning yes

00:11:47.631 --> 00:11:49.113
it is quite early in australia at the

00:11:49.133 --> 00:11:52.316
moment especially on the east coast so so

00:11:52.355 --> 00:11:56.359
nice to have you today um yeah so

00:11:56.379 --> 00:11:58.919
we got a comment from lulu cuckoo but

00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.701
surely this is done in an attempt to

00:12:00.741 --> 00:12:02.403
stop graphene west possibly under the

00:12:02.423 --> 00:12:03.443
guise of saving money

00:12:04.544 --> 00:12:05.845
Yeah, that's not super clear yet,

00:12:05.945 --> 00:12:06.384
actually.

00:12:09.605 --> 00:12:10.426
Personal opinion,

00:12:10.586 --> 00:12:11.606
I don't think that's the issue.

00:12:11.746 --> 00:12:13.267
I don't think there's enough Graphene

00:12:13.366 --> 00:12:15.768
users or custom ROM users in general for

00:12:16.067 --> 00:12:16.947
Google to care.

00:12:17.107 --> 00:12:18.327
And there'd be so many other ways.

00:12:18.827 --> 00:12:20.269
They could just stop supporting bootloader

00:12:20.308 --> 00:12:21.849
unlock.

00:12:21.869 --> 00:12:23.288
There's a million other ways that they

00:12:23.308 --> 00:12:24.149
could stop Graphene.

00:12:25.210 --> 00:12:26.409
I don't think Google really cares that

00:12:26.429 --> 00:12:26.610
much.

00:12:26.750 --> 00:12:28.030
Maybe if it keeps growing,

00:12:28.150 --> 00:12:30.490
they might worry about stealing their user

00:12:30.530 --> 00:12:30.770
base.

00:12:30.811 --> 00:12:32.010
But I don't know.

00:12:32.052 --> 00:12:32.392
Personally,

00:12:32.491 --> 00:12:34.032
I don't think that's the issue.

00:12:36.558 --> 00:12:40.822
Yeah, another comment here from Rastanuka.

00:12:41.341 --> 00:12:42.503
Hi from Guatemala.

00:12:42.763 --> 00:12:42.903
Hello.

00:12:42.923 --> 00:12:46.065
We've got viewers all over the world

00:12:46.105 --> 00:12:46.365
today.

00:12:46.605 --> 00:12:46.926
Awesome.

00:12:48.067 --> 00:12:50.067
I did find it here on Blue Sky.

00:12:50.187 --> 00:12:51.349
It's the second thread where they

00:12:51.389 --> 00:12:53.129
announced that they did find MTE support.

00:12:53.549 --> 00:12:53.990
Basically,

00:12:54.009 --> 00:12:55.711
they said it was forced disabled when

00:12:55.792 --> 00:12:57.432
Android SEVENTEEN originally launched,

00:12:57.513 --> 00:12:59.173
but it's not disabled anymore in the new

00:12:59.234 --> 00:12:59.533
beta.

00:13:02.562 --> 00:13:03.484
So yeah, I guess it'll,

00:13:04.264 --> 00:13:06.346
and it says Google originally claims,

00:13:06.586 --> 00:13:08.347
or there were leaks that claim that they

00:13:08.388 --> 00:13:10.590
cut MTE because of performance issues,

00:13:10.629 --> 00:13:11.551
which is weird because like you said,

00:13:11.591 --> 00:13:13.152
they said it was a, like what,

00:13:13.211 --> 00:13:16.735
a five percent performance hit so far.

00:13:16.836 --> 00:13:18.817
So I don't know.

00:13:19.077 --> 00:13:21.440
Yeah, that's strange.

00:13:21.879 --> 00:13:24.241
I don't know.

00:13:24.481 --> 00:13:26.163
I hope it does come back for stock

00:13:26.203 --> 00:13:28.405
Pixel users as well, just because...

00:13:30.212 --> 00:13:31.374
It is a good security feature.

00:13:31.413 --> 00:13:32.774
It's one of those like behind the scenes

00:13:32.815 --> 00:13:34.596
invisible things that protects everybody.

00:13:34.716 --> 00:13:35.977
And I just,

00:13:36.057 --> 00:13:37.359
I hope it'll come back for stock users

00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:38.000
too.

00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.260
So, but I don't know.

00:13:39.561 --> 00:13:40.081
We'll see, I guess.

00:13:44.918 --> 00:13:45.498
Let's see,

00:13:45.778 --> 00:13:47.438
unless you had any more thoughts on that.

00:13:49.038 --> 00:13:50.379
I think, well, let's see.

00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.681
David here says there are twenty million

00:13:52.701 --> 00:13:54.400
people in Australia and yet estimates only

00:13:54.461 --> 00:13:55.961
five K graphene OS users.

00:13:56.381 --> 00:13:58.022
Yeah, the last estimate I heard,

00:13:58.221 --> 00:14:00.182
I think they said that based on because

00:14:00.222 --> 00:14:01.582
obviously graphene doesn't like keep

00:14:01.604 --> 00:14:02.163
statistics,

00:14:02.203 --> 00:14:03.504
they don't ask you to register or

00:14:03.543 --> 00:14:03.864
anything,

00:14:04.344 --> 00:14:05.884
but they can kind of take an educated

00:14:05.924 --> 00:14:07.905
guess based on how many update pings they

00:14:07.946 --> 00:14:08.645
get from the server.

00:14:09.426 --> 00:14:10.785
And the last estimate I saw,

00:14:10.806 --> 00:14:11.647
this was years ago, was like,

00:14:11.726 --> 00:14:12.947
thirty thousand users,

00:14:12.986 --> 00:14:15.787
which is still globally not that much.

00:14:15.826 --> 00:14:21.128
So, I don't know.

00:14:21.148 --> 00:14:22.048
Braden here said,

00:14:22.109 --> 00:14:23.808
Jonah is the one that's been using Zen.

00:14:23.908 --> 00:14:25.168
I've been more interested in as of late.

00:14:25.249 --> 00:14:26.889
It seems like the forum people were saying

00:14:26.909 --> 00:14:27.629
was a honeypot.

00:14:28.970 --> 00:14:30.470
I have not seen that thread.

00:14:30.730 --> 00:14:32.311
I have not been keeping up on Zen.

00:14:33.510 --> 00:14:34.510
That would kind of be news to me.

00:14:34.530 --> 00:14:37.331
I don't know if you've heard anything

00:14:37.351 --> 00:14:37.731
about this.

00:14:38.731 --> 00:14:44.014
I would say that's not something that I've

00:14:44.075 --> 00:14:45.096
heard it claimed,

00:14:45.296 --> 00:14:47.096
but I would say just take that with

00:14:47.116 --> 00:14:48.738
a pretty large grain of salt.

00:14:48.977 --> 00:14:49.778
As far as I know,

00:14:49.798 --> 00:14:51.119
there's no evidence of that being the

00:14:51.158 --> 00:14:51.538
case.

00:14:51.979 --> 00:14:54.681
I think there's some people who might be

00:14:54.780 --> 00:14:56.302
unhappy with the amount of connections

00:14:56.322 --> 00:14:57.663
that Zen makes by default,

00:14:58.003 --> 00:14:59.363
but they're sort of people that would be

00:14:59.403 --> 00:14:59.663
like,

00:15:00.504 --> 00:15:02.764
any single connection without my

00:15:02.804 --> 00:15:04.645
permission is a honeypot.

00:15:04.706 --> 00:15:06.707
And I'm like, well, I think, you know,

00:15:06.807 --> 00:15:07.408
we have to have

00:15:08.472 --> 00:15:10.193
You have to have reasonable expectations.

00:15:11.154 --> 00:15:12.716
It's not really a privacy browser.

00:15:12.755 --> 00:15:16.119
It's just a browser that has these

00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:16.519
features.

00:15:16.619 --> 00:15:17.440
And Oddbite said,

00:15:18.139 --> 00:15:19.461
everything is a honeypot, lol.

00:15:19.561 --> 00:15:20.100
Yeah, I mean,

00:15:20.562 --> 00:15:21.962
it is kind of a thing in this

00:15:21.982 --> 00:15:22.403
community.

00:15:22.442 --> 00:15:24.264
Like a lot of times people just call

00:15:24.284 --> 00:15:25.966
things a honeypot if they don't like it.

00:15:26.046 --> 00:15:28.628
So unless there's actual proof that that's

00:15:28.648 --> 00:15:29.828
the case, then I just...

00:15:30.981 --> 00:15:33.145
I'm not sure if that would be applicable.

00:15:33.245 --> 00:15:34.509
I use Zen.

00:15:34.568 --> 00:15:35.850
I've never had any issues with it.

00:15:36.392 --> 00:15:39.638
I don't think there's any evidence that

00:15:39.677 --> 00:15:40.399
that's the case.

00:15:40.538 --> 00:15:42.062
It's definitely beta software.

00:15:42.221 --> 00:15:43.965
It definitely is...

00:15:45.605 --> 00:15:48.907
There's issues with it that are very minor

00:15:48.947 --> 00:15:49.326
issues,

00:15:49.466 --> 00:15:52.869
but it's definitely not a stable piece of

00:15:52.908 --> 00:15:53.769
software at this point.

00:15:53.788 --> 00:15:54.769
It does have issues,

00:15:54.828 --> 00:15:58.030
but they're mostly being worked out.

00:15:58.091 --> 00:15:59.130
So if you do want to try it

00:15:59.191 --> 00:15:59.311
out,

00:15:59.370 --> 00:16:01.412
it's definitely worth giving it a shot.

00:16:01.471 --> 00:16:04.312
If you need a good vertical tab

00:16:04.373 --> 00:16:06.693
integration, because, yeah,

00:16:06.813 --> 00:16:07.754
there's not really that many other

00:16:07.793 --> 00:16:11.014
options.

00:16:11.075 --> 00:16:12.056
Yeah, I think...

00:16:14.264 --> 00:16:16.585
personal pet peeve is i think it annoys

00:16:16.625 --> 00:16:18.706
me when people don't understand

00:16:18.787 --> 00:16:21.567
circumstantial evidence and so they'll be

00:16:21.607 --> 00:16:23.208
like oh like signal is a big one

00:16:23.249 --> 00:16:25.150
right everybody's like oh it's it's owned

00:16:25.191 --> 00:16:26.610
by the u.s and i think way back

00:16:26.630 --> 00:16:28.493
or owned by someone in the u.s and

00:16:28.513 --> 00:16:29.653
i think way back in the day they

00:16:29.673 --> 00:16:31.293
got a little bit of funding from incutel

00:16:31.313 --> 00:16:33.054
or maybe that was proton and but you

00:16:33.075 --> 00:16:34.535
know they like they draw these red strings

00:16:34.556 --> 00:16:36.456
and they're like therefore signal is a

00:16:36.496 --> 00:16:38.818
honeypot and anyone who disagrees with me

00:16:38.859 --> 00:16:40.539
is either in on it or just doesn't

00:16:40.580 --> 00:16:42.260
understand and it's like no it's

00:16:42.918 --> 00:16:43.957
You're welcome to think that it's a

00:16:43.977 --> 00:16:45.818
honeypot, but you also need to understand,

00:16:45.859 --> 00:16:47.178
like, look, I don't have a smoking gun.

00:16:47.499 --> 00:16:48.860
Here's all the reasons I think it.

00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:50.519
But I don't know.

00:16:50.620 --> 00:16:51.581
I think people are just a little bit

00:16:51.620 --> 00:16:52.701
too quick to be like, no,

00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:54.662
I know this for a fact.

00:16:54.861 --> 00:16:56.001
And it's it's I don't know.

00:16:56.581 --> 00:16:57.763
I think we all need to be a

00:16:57.783 --> 00:16:59.143
little more open minded sometimes when it

00:16:59.163 --> 00:16:59.842
comes to that stuff.

00:16:59.942 --> 00:17:02.063
But I don't know.

00:17:02.183 --> 00:17:03.464
I'm probably rambling already.

00:17:04.003 --> 00:17:04.944
It's a little too early in the show

00:17:04.964 --> 00:17:05.605
for me to be rambling.

00:17:07.030 --> 00:17:07.932
No, Nate, I think you've got to,

00:17:08.071 --> 00:17:09.092
I think you've got to move on to

00:17:09.133 --> 00:17:09.752
more rambling.

00:17:09.792 --> 00:17:10.933
I think you've got to talk a bit

00:17:11.054 --> 00:17:12.534
about this next story here.

00:17:12.974 --> 00:17:14.454
One password, unfortunately.

00:17:15.715 --> 00:17:16.717
Oh, nice transition.

00:17:16.757 --> 00:17:17.096
I love it.

00:17:17.136 --> 00:17:17.517
I love it.

00:17:17.596 --> 00:17:17.997
Yeah.

00:17:18.096 --> 00:17:20.719
So, uh, this, this is a forum update.

00:17:21.038 --> 00:17:22.220
Um, for those of you who didn't know,

00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:22.599
we,

00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:25.020
we have a forum at discuss at privacy

00:17:25.040 --> 00:17:27.021
guides.net and, uh, yeah,

00:17:27.122 --> 00:17:29.324
people are always asking questions,

00:17:29.344 --> 00:17:31.884
sharing articles, um, really good stuff.

00:17:32.125 --> 00:17:33.326
A great forum for sure.

00:17:34.006 --> 00:17:34.507
And, um,

00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:37.181
This was posted a little bit earlier this

00:17:37.221 --> 00:17:37.500
week.

00:17:38.142 --> 00:17:39.682
This kind of comes from a blog post

00:17:39.701 --> 00:17:41.801
that went viral and then got written up

00:17:41.821 --> 00:17:42.362
in The Verge.

00:17:42.521 --> 00:17:43.603
And I'll quote The Verge headline.

00:17:43.623 --> 00:17:43.843
It says,

00:17:43.942 --> 00:17:45.663
one password wades into right-wing mess

00:17:45.722 --> 00:17:47.143
after funding a Linux project.

00:17:47.182 --> 00:17:50.064
So basically what happened is one password

00:17:50.344 --> 00:17:52.423
pledged three hundred thousand dollars of

00:17:52.523 --> 00:17:56.325
support for a Linux distro called Omarchy,

00:17:56.605 --> 00:17:58.825
which is overseen by a nonprofit called

00:17:58.944 --> 00:17:59.545
Omacom.

00:18:00.286 --> 00:18:00.566
And

00:18:02.686 --> 00:18:04.756
OnePassword pledged that money to Omicom,

00:18:05.238 --> 00:18:05.619
to be fair.

00:18:07.002 --> 00:18:09.565
Omicom and Omarchy are headed up by a

00:18:09.605 --> 00:18:12.747
guy named David Heinmeier Hansen,

00:18:13.228 --> 00:18:15.048
who I believe is called DHH for short.

00:18:15.750 --> 00:18:17.391
And let's see, I did my research.

00:18:17.851 --> 00:18:20.452
He is best known for creating Ruby on

00:18:20.472 --> 00:18:21.453
the Rails, Basecamp,

00:18:21.534 --> 00:18:22.974
and the Hey email client.

00:18:23.535 --> 00:18:27.659
And Omarchy is basically DHH's version.

00:18:27.719 --> 00:18:28.479
I'm just going to call him David.

00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:30.681
It's basically David's version of Linux.

00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:35.704
And it's a base of Arch Linux.

00:18:36.707 --> 00:18:38.871
And apparently is like one of one

00:18:38.911 --> 00:18:40.433
passwords, biggest customer environments.

00:18:40.453 --> 00:18:42.076
Like apparently a ton of one password

00:18:42.155 --> 00:18:43.459
users are using this distro.

00:18:43.479 --> 00:18:46.242
Um, so yeah,

00:18:48.804 --> 00:18:50.345
This kind of went a little bit viral

00:18:50.384 --> 00:18:52.144
in our community, or I should say,

00:18:53.205 --> 00:18:55.086
I was interested in this post when I

00:18:55.105 --> 00:18:55.905
was reading through it.

00:18:57.567 --> 00:18:58.646
Because obviously the first thing that

00:18:58.666 --> 00:19:00.127
came to mind, I shouldn't say obviously,

00:19:00.188 --> 00:19:02.048
but for those of you who were here

00:19:02.728 --> 00:19:04.669
a couple months ago when we talked about

00:19:05.288 --> 00:19:07.670
Mulvad's CEO donating to a political party

00:19:07.690 --> 00:19:08.170
in Sweden,

00:19:08.650 --> 00:19:10.530
that was also very heavily right-wing,

00:19:10.730 --> 00:19:12.730
and they had a lot of... Oh, yeah,

00:19:12.770 --> 00:19:14.071
sorry, I skipped over that part.

00:19:14.092 --> 00:19:14.672
Um...

00:19:15.551 --> 00:19:16.932
this David guy, DHH,

00:19:17.373 --> 00:19:18.814
the reason this is so controversial is

00:19:18.834 --> 00:19:20.174
because this dude's been very open for

00:19:20.275 --> 00:19:20.755
years.

00:19:21.434 --> 00:19:21.755
Um,

00:19:21.835 --> 00:19:24.297
at least going as far back as twenty

00:19:24.797 --> 00:19:25.356
twenty three,

00:19:25.798 --> 00:19:26.978
where he's been writing very,

00:19:27.157 --> 00:19:30.079
I would say very overtly racist blog

00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:30.480
posts.

00:19:31.340 --> 00:19:31.520
Um,

00:19:32.441 --> 00:19:33.121
Like, what is it here?

00:19:34.241 --> 00:19:36.002
He wrote something.

00:19:36.522 --> 00:19:36.742
Okay.

00:19:37.022 --> 00:19:37.983
So back in twenty twenty three,

00:19:38.044 --> 00:19:39.503
Duke University Libraries dropped one of

00:19:39.523 --> 00:19:40.825
his products, citing, quote,

00:19:41.085 --> 00:19:42.665
harms we see perpetuated by the leadership

00:19:42.705 --> 00:19:44.086
of Basecamp's parent company,

00:19:44.106 --> 00:19:44.866
Thirty Seven Signals,

00:19:44.886 --> 00:19:46.248
which is co-owned by DHH.

00:19:47.448 --> 00:19:47.909
At the time,

00:19:47.929 --> 00:19:50.750
they noted DHH's attacks on DEI programs

00:19:51.369 --> 00:19:54.172
and that Basecamp had banned societal and

00:19:54.211 --> 00:19:55.551
political discussions at work,

00:19:55.571 --> 00:19:57.093
which basically

00:19:59.078 --> 00:20:00.239
I don't know, to be fair, maybe,

00:20:00.818 --> 00:20:02.079
maybe work isn't the best place to talk

00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:02.400
about that.

00:20:02.420 --> 00:20:02.819
I don't know.

00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:03.400
Um,

00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:05.339
but this year he published rants and blog

00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:06.701
posts that call for ethnic cleansing in

00:20:06.760 --> 00:20:07.000
Europe.

00:20:07.280 --> 00:20:09.401
In July, he posted a blog titled wolves,

00:20:09.421 --> 00:20:10.321
sheep, and gypsies,

00:20:10.582 --> 00:20:12.281
where he implies the immigrants are wolves

00:20:12.342 --> 00:20:13.362
and his solution quote,

00:20:13.622 --> 00:20:14.603
when wolves get out of control,

00:20:14.643 --> 00:20:15.182
you shoot them.

00:20:15.262 --> 00:20:16.682
When gypsies take over public spaces,

00:20:16.702 --> 00:20:17.883
you deport them unquote.

00:20:18.403 --> 00:20:20.364
And, uh, for the record, um,

00:20:20.384 --> 00:20:21.723
I'm actually told that gypsies is kind of

00:20:21.743 --> 00:20:23.003
a racial slur and I should probably stop

00:20:23.023 --> 00:20:24.924
saying that, but, um, uh,

00:20:25.464 --> 00:20:26.845
So one password kind of defended this.

00:20:26.904 --> 00:20:28.645
One of their co-founders played it down by

00:20:28.685 --> 00:20:29.625
basically saying like,

00:20:30.066 --> 00:20:31.727
everybody's entitled to their opinion.

00:20:33.086 --> 00:20:34.067
Actually, I'm going to read what he said.

00:20:34.086 --> 00:20:35.688
I'll let him hang himself with his own

00:20:35.728 --> 00:20:35.887
rope.

00:20:36.607 --> 00:20:36.988
As I said,

00:20:37.028 --> 00:20:38.008
people have different personal...

00:20:38.028 --> 00:20:41.848
This comes from my internal Slack

00:20:41.868 --> 00:20:42.169
messages.

00:20:42.528 --> 00:20:42.848
As I said,

00:20:42.888 --> 00:20:43.990
people have different personal opinions.

00:20:44.009 --> 00:20:45.150
You believe in your heart that DHH is

00:20:45.250 --> 00:20:46.170
evil and you have the moral high ground

00:20:46.190 --> 00:20:46.910
and nothing will change your mind.

00:20:47.190 --> 00:20:48.090
However, not everyone believes that.

00:20:48.131 --> 00:20:49.131
It is not fair to claim a monopoly

00:20:49.191 --> 00:20:50.330
and ostracize team members who might

00:20:50.351 --> 00:20:50.810
disagree with you.

00:20:51.111 --> 00:20:52.172
There are people who are afraid to speak

00:20:52.211 --> 00:20:53.491
up simply because they will be personally

00:20:53.511 --> 00:20:53.852
attacked.

00:20:54.767 --> 00:20:56.248
in which case maybe stop attacking your

00:20:56.268 --> 00:20:56.627
employees.

00:20:57.127 --> 00:20:59.489
But the actual CEO was a little bit

00:20:59.528 --> 00:21:01.169
more diplomatic.

00:21:01.229 --> 00:21:01.489
He said,

00:21:01.588 --> 00:21:02.829
one password does not endorse hateful

00:21:02.849 --> 00:21:04.130
dehumanizing or exclusionary views,

00:21:04.430 --> 00:21:06.351
including those shared publicly by DHH.

00:21:07.530 --> 00:21:09.571
And the article goes on to note that

00:21:09.771 --> 00:21:11.792
Omicom has been funded by twelve other

00:21:11.833 --> 00:21:13.873
patrons, including Michael Dell,

00:21:13.913 --> 00:21:16.493
Jack Dorsey, Shopify's Tobias Lukey,

00:21:16.894 --> 00:21:18.535
Stripe CEO Patrick Collison.

00:21:19.875 --> 00:21:21.636
And the Shopify CEO recently endorsed the

00:21:21.696 --> 00:21:23.979
idea that wealthy Canadians should have

00:21:24.019 --> 00:21:25.681
more voting power than poor people.

00:21:26.382 --> 00:21:29.104
So yeah, really,

00:21:29.203 --> 00:21:30.444
really great ideas going on there.

00:21:30.965 --> 00:21:32.606
But no,

00:21:32.646 --> 00:21:33.788
the reason I said I was a little

00:21:33.808 --> 00:21:35.769
bit –

00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:36.800
I found this discussion interesting

00:21:36.820 --> 00:21:37.602
because in the forum,

00:21:38.102 --> 00:21:39.083
the first thing that came to mind was

00:21:39.103 --> 00:21:40.124
everybody thought about Moldad.

00:21:40.924 --> 00:21:42.766
And everybody seemed to kind of agree that

00:21:42.786 --> 00:21:44.027
this is a little bit different because in

00:21:44.067 --> 00:21:44.468
Moldad,

00:21:44.528 --> 00:21:45.969
it was the case of the CEO donating

00:21:45.989 --> 00:21:47.230
directly to a political party.

00:21:47.730 --> 00:21:48.330
And in this case,

00:21:48.411 --> 00:21:49.791
it's more of the company donating to a

00:21:49.832 --> 00:21:51.373
project that happens to be headed by

00:21:51.413 --> 00:21:53.855
somebody who has not great political

00:21:53.875 --> 00:21:54.296
views.

00:21:56.317 --> 00:21:56.938
I will say –

00:21:59.959 --> 00:22:00.979
I guess this might be me getting on

00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:01.719
a soapbox a little bit.

00:22:01.818 --> 00:22:02.940
One thing that really bugged me with the

00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.500
Mulvad controversy is I saw a lot of

00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:06.920
people attacking each other in the sense

00:22:06.940 --> 00:22:07.680
of like, oh my god,

00:22:07.700 --> 00:22:09.020
you're so dumb if you care about this.

00:22:09.060 --> 00:22:09.480
Who cares?

00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:10.621
Mulvad's a good VPN.

00:22:11.201 --> 00:22:12.701
And it really kind of bugged me that

00:22:12.721 --> 00:22:13.101
it's like, man,

00:22:13.181 --> 00:22:14.622
even if you want to keep using Mulvad

00:22:14.642 --> 00:22:15.162
VPN,

00:22:16.061 --> 00:22:16.842
I think you should have a little bit

00:22:16.882 --> 00:22:18.362
of sympathy for people and understand that

00:22:18.402 --> 00:22:19.502
maybe they don't want to be giving their

00:22:19.542 --> 00:22:20.242
money to this person.

00:22:20.682 --> 00:22:21.883
And I feel like I didn't see that

00:22:21.903 --> 00:22:22.823
as much this time around.

00:22:22.982 --> 00:22:24.002
I feel like the discussion was a lot

00:22:24.022 --> 00:22:27.403
more civil, a lot more open-minded, but...

00:22:28.959 --> 00:22:29.819
the other thing that I thought was

00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:31.421
interested was this kind of shifted to a

00:22:31.461 --> 00:22:32.761
discussion about Oh Marky,

00:22:33.522 --> 00:22:34.323
which was kind of my thought.

00:22:34.343 --> 00:22:35.324
Cause when I first saw this story,

00:22:35.364 --> 00:22:35.624
I was like,

00:22:35.663 --> 00:22:36.825
I've never even heard of Oh Marky.

00:22:36.845 --> 00:22:38.446
And I looked it up and granted,

00:22:38.467 --> 00:22:39.287
I'm not super technical,

00:22:39.307 --> 00:22:40.548
but I skimmed the Wikipedia page and I'm

00:22:40.567 --> 00:22:42.910
like, why are they even donating to this?

00:22:42.930 --> 00:22:44.731
This doesn't seem like there was nothing

00:22:44.751 --> 00:22:45.712
in the description that I looked at.

00:22:45.732 --> 00:22:46.212
And I'm like, Oh,

00:22:46.252 --> 00:22:47.854
it makes sense why one password would be

00:22:47.874 --> 00:22:48.454
interested in that.

00:22:48.494 --> 00:22:49.214
But yeah,

00:22:49.234 --> 00:22:50.316
that's kind of what the discussion turned

00:22:50.355 --> 00:22:51.837
into from there is everybody talking about

00:22:51.877 --> 00:22:52.018
like,

00:22:52.097 --> 00:22:53.419
what does Oh Marky bring to the table

00:22:53.459 --> 00:22:55.200
that, you know,

00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:56.621
other things don't do better.

00:22:56.681 --> 00:22:57.961
Why are they giving their money here?

00:22:58.021 --> 00:22:58.603
But yeah,

00:22:59.086 --> 00:22:59.446
I don't know.

00:23:01.148 --> 00:23:02.971
I'm not super, like I said,

00:23:02.990 --> 00:23:04.492
I'm not super technical on this stuff and

00:23:04.512 --> 00:23:06.174
I've never heard of Omarky before,

00:23:06.214 --> 00:23:07.817
but I see you made a couple posts,

00:23:07.856 --> 00:23:08.837
I think, in this forum thread.

00:23:08.857 --> 00:23:10.880
Do you have any additional thoughts or

00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:12.342
context that I missed or anything like

00:23:12.362 --> 00:23:12.521
that?

00:23:13.481 --> 00:23:15.544
Yeah, so over the last week,

00:23:16.424 --> 00:23:19.406
we had an issue actually opened quite a

00:23:19.446 --> 00:23:22.108
long time ago by someone called Cynthia on

00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:23.431
a GitHub page.

00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:24.932
And basically,

00:23:25.211 --> 00:23:27.413
she just put together a list of a

00:23:27.453 --> 00:23:29.855
lot of issues with this distribution.

00:23:31.317 --> 00:23:32.278
So firstly,

00:23:32.939 --> 00:23:36.761
this is probably one of the worst Linux

00:23:36.781 --> 00:23:37.883
distros I've ever seen.

00:23:40.017 --> 00:23:40.737
It's basically,

00:23:40.836 --> 00:23:42.917
it goes against almost everything that I

00:23:42.938 --> 00:23:44.419
think a lot of people that use Linux

00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:46.200
use Linux for.

00:23:48.622 --> 00:23:49.863
And that is, it's,

00:23:50.863 --> 00:23:52.703
it bundles a lot of privacy invasive

00:23:52.924 --> 00:23:54.224
applications by default.

00:23:54.325 --> 00:23:56.406
Like it includes a bunch of Google apps.

00:23:57.007 --> 00:24:00.409
It includes AI integrations by default.

00:24:00.890 --> 00:24:02.871
So on top of all that weird stuff,

00:24:03.913 --> 00:24:07.057
It also does some pretty bad stuff from

00:24:07.096 --> 00:24:09.018
a security perspective too.

00:24:09.157 --> 00:24:15.123
So it uses outdated packages.

00:24:16.324 --> 00:24:18.285
It actually holds packages back for twice

00:24:18.325 --> 00:24:19.306
as long as Manjaro.

00:24:19.425 --> 00:24:21.208
Manjaro already had this problem and

00:24:21.307 --> 00:24:22.888
somehow they decided to make it even

00:24:22.929 --> 00:24:23.368
worse.

00:24:23.409 --> 00:24:24.971
So I'm not sure why they did that.

00:24:26.192 --> 00:24:29.013
They also use blindly built AUR packages.

00:24:29.513 --> 00:24:31.154
If you're not really aware of AUR

00:24:31.195 --> 00:24:31.695
packages,

00:24:31.836 --> 00:24:32.817
it's basically a

00:24:34.383 --> 00:24:38.968
it's a file that has instructions for your

00:24:39.008 --> 00:24:42.111
operating system to build a package for

00:24:42.131 --> 00:24:43.352
your operating system.

00:24:43.392 --> 00:24:43.612
Right?

00:24:43.652 --> 00:24:47.476
So basically anyone can upload these to

00:24:47.496 --> 00:24:48.778
the AUR and

00:24:50.373 --> 00:24:52.374
It also kind of increases the chances of

00:24:52.453 --> 00:24:54.875
someone maliciously changing one of these

00:24:54.915 --> 00:24:57.857
package build scripts to include malware

00:24:57.877 --> 00:24:58.298
and stuff,

00:24:58.317 --> 00:24:59.598
which we have seen in the past.

00:25:01.059 --> 00:25:05.442
So blindly building from a package build

00:25:05.883 --> 00:25:07.625
is extremely dangerous,

00:25:07.825 --> 00:25:08.904
and you probably shouldn't do that.

00:25:08.925 --> 00:25:10.507
You should be reviewing the package build

00:25:10.626 --> 00:25:12.288
every single time you build the package.

00:25:12.907 --> 00:25:14.868
So they're blindly building them and

00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:17.451
deploying them to people's devices,

00:25:17.510 --> 00:25:17.730
which...

00:25:18.711 --> 00:25:20.532
all it takes is one person to basically

00:25:20.573 --> 00:25:23.535
just modify one of those packages.

00:25:23.575 --> 00:25:25.175
And now every single person that's using

00:25:25.236 --> 00:25:26.336
it is now infected.

00:25:26.416 --> 00:25:28.618
So that's kind of a massive problem.

00:25:29.219 --> 00:25:31.780
It used to rely on the chaotic AUR,

00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:34.682
which is basically means that it's

00:25:37.375 --> 00:25:41.036
even less of a requirement to actually

00:25:41.695 --> 00:25:42.297
commit to it.

00:25:43.277 --> 00:25:44.978
They also migrated to their own package

00:25:45.018 --> 00:25:45.657
repository,

00:25:46.917 --> 00:25:49.038
which automatically builds package builds

00:25:49.058 --> 00:25:50.900
again, which just has the same problem.

00:25:51.819 --> 00:25:53.681
And yeah,

00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:55.580
there's a lot of other issues as well.

00:25:56.020 --> 00:26:02.844
They have a very strange security posture

00:26:02.884 --> 00:26:03.624
here.

00:26:04.894 --> 00:26:07.096
they decided to disable package

00:26:07.115 --> 00:26:10.415
signatures, which the AUR,

00:26:10.536 --> 00:26:12.277
like the Arch Wiki specifically says,

00:26:12.696 --> 00:26:14.416
do not disable this unless you absolutely

00:26:14.436 --> 00:26:15.117
know what you're doing.

00:26:15.917 --> 00:26:21.078
So basically you could, you know,

00:26:21.338 --> 00:26:21.878
build a pack,

00:26:21.898 --> 00:26:24.680
like you could maliciously install a

00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:26.461
package because it doesn't check against

00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:27.941
the PGP key of the package.

00:26:28.020 --> 00:26:30.662
So that's already kind of concerning that

00:26:30.682 --> 00:26:31.501
they would allow that.

00:26:33.329 --> 00:26:35.090
And then also what Nate said is this

00:26:35.171 --> 00:26:37.991
whole thing surrounding this DHH guy.

00:26:38.173 --> 00:26:40.693
It's a terrible Linux distribution that's

00:26:40.713 --> 00:26:42.835
getting money from one password.

00:26:43.096 --> 00:26:44.395
And the guy that runs it is an

00:26:44.496 --> 00:26:44.936
asshole.

00:26:45.176 --> 00:26:46.958
So, like, this is just, like,

00:26:47.097 --> 00:26:50.119
every single possible bad thing all in

00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:50.420
one.

00:26:50.660 --> 00:26:52.320
And one password is giving them money.

00:26:53.041 --> 00:26:56.003
So I think just from a technical aspect...

00:26:56.965 --> 00:26:58.467
even if you don't care about this DHH

00:26:58.487 --> 00:26:58.686
guy,

00:26:58.727 --> 00:27:00.167
even if you agree a hundred percent with

00:27:00.228 --> 00:27:00.988
everything he says,

00:27:01.689 --> 00:27:03.429
this Linux distro is bad.

00:27:03.789 --> 00:27:05.069
It's not a good Linux distro.

00:27:05.109 --> 00:27:06.230
They should not be getting money.

00:27:07.050 --> 00:27:08.031
They don't know what they're doing.

00:27:09.071 --> 00:27:10.952
There was even another post that I saw

00:27:11.012 --> 00:27:11.933
here, basically,

00:27:14.115 --> 00:27:19.397
which allowed anyone on a Omaki Linux

00:27:19.417 --> 00:27:22.599
system to gain root access because they

00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:25.060
allowed the Docker group to have access to

00:27:25.825 --> 00:27:28.105
root so basically docker would always run

00:27:28.145 --> 00:27:29.826
as root so you could run any command

00:27:29.846 --> 00:27:32.767
as root without any authorization so you

00:27:32.787 --> 00:27:37.428
know this is like basic stuff um this

00:27:37.468 --> 00:27:40.188
is basic security stuff that you know i

00:27:40.228 --> 00:27:42.949
think a lot of times this this this

00:27:42.969 --> 00:27:44.368
this linux distro seems to be quite

00:27:44.388 --> 00:27:46.849
focused on vibe coding quite focused on ai

00:27:46.890 --> 00:27:47.250
stuff

00:27:48.266 --> 00:27:51.130
Maybe not the best idea from a security

00:27:51.170 --> 00:27:51.671
perspective.

00:27:51.691 --> 00:27:52.633
They're probably using it in the

00:27:52.653 --> 00:27:53.834
development process too.

00:27:54.715 --> 00:27:57.700
But yeah, in other words,

00:27:58.060 --> 00:28:01.164
you can basically compromise a normal user

00:28:01.204 --> 00:28:03.429
application could basically just gain full

00:28:04.405 --> 00:28:06.667
root access on, on Omaki Linux.

00:28:07.248 --> 00:28:08.848
So if you are using Omaki Linux,

00:28:08.909 --> 00:28:10.631
I would suggest not doing that.

00:28:11.351 --> 00:28:11.832
Um,

00:28:11.872 --> 00:28:13.292
cause they don't seem to have very good

00:28:13.873 --> 00:28:14.933
security practices.

00:28:15.213 --> 00:28:16.494
Um, and so, yeah,

00:28:16.515 --> 00:28:18.596
we're not going to recommend using that,

00:28:18.676 --> 00:28:20.178
but I think the main thing here is

00:28:21.199 --> 00:28:22.480
one password giving money to such a

00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:23.359
terrible project.

00:28:23.560 --> 00:28:25.021
And then also like Nate said,

00:28:25.041 --> 00:28:27.103
this guy has like pretty,

00:28:27.242 --> 00:28:29.825
pretty ad abhorrent views on a lot of

00:28:29.865 --> 00:28:30.465
things, which,

00:28:31.108 --> 00:28:31.449
Obviously,

00:28:31.469 --> 00:28:34.873
that's up to your own political

00:28:34.932 --> 00:28:35.574
orientation,

00:28:35.634 --> 00:28:40.538
but I think it's definitely a good thing

00:28:40.578 --> 00:28:42.840
to note and an ethical concern for a

00:28:42.881 --> 00:28:43.342
lot of people.

00:28:46.198 --> 00:28:47.859
yeah for sure that's uh what a lot

00:28:47.900 --> 00:28:49.221
of people were saying like towards the end

00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:51.143
of the thread here um one user said

00:28:51.163 --> 00:28:52.483
it's really frustrating to see the wrong

00:28:52.523 --> 00:28:54.445
things getting rewarded in what universe

00:28:54.486 --> 00:28:55.968
is the work of omarkey worth thirteen

00:28:56.008 --> 00:28:57.209
million dollars i think he's talking about

00:28:57.229 --> 00:28:58.450
all the other people that have donated as

00:28:58.490 --> 00:29:00.092
well he said there's better places for

00:29:00.112 --> 00:29:02.654
that money to go like kde sfc hyperland

00:29:02.694 --> 00:29:03.996
etc um

00:29:04.135 --> 00:29:05.395
Um, he's like, I think,

00:29:05.615 --> 00:29:06.876
I think less of one password now,

00:29:06.896 --> 00:29:07.916
and that's putting aside all the

00:29:08.557 --> 00:29:10.057
horrendous political stances at issue.

00:29:10.458 --> 00:29:11.498
Somebody else had said,

00:29:11.597 --> 00:29:13.459
imagine XIII million going towards wine or

00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.680
steam proton prime Linux gaming,

00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.240
maybe even wine getting more improvement

00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:18.680
to allow a solid transition away from

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:19.080
windows.

00:29:19.141 --> 00:29:20.060
So yeah,

00:29:20.101 --> 00:29:21.980
that seems to be a popular take.

00:29:22.162 --> 00:29:24.961
Like you just said is it's just even

00:29:25.001 --> 00:29:26.343
putting aside the political stuff.

00:29:26.363 --> 00:29:28.123
Like this is just not a very solid

00:29:28.143 --> 00:29:30.304
distro and it's super weird.

00:29:30.972 --> 00:29:31.894
So unfortunate,

00:29:32.094 --> 00:29:35.655
but really quick before we do move on,

00:29:35.816 --> 00:29:37.455
I do want to share, you know,

00:29:37.517 --> 00:29:39.738
some people are still, as with anything,

00:29:39.798 --> 00:29:40.917
some people are like, Hey, whatever.

00:29:40.978 --> 00:29:42.138
It's still like one password,

00:29:42.159 --> 00:29:43.099
still a good password manager.

00:29:43.140 --> 00:29:43.859
I'm still going to use it.

00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:45.980
Some people are just kind of like that

00:29:46.060 --> 00:29:46.381
one guy.

00:29:46.441 --> 00:29:46.580
Like,

00:29:46.800 --> 00:29:48.221
I don't know if I trust one password

00:29:48.241 --> 00:29:48.561
anymore.

00:29:48.642 --> 00:29:50.723
So at this time, our recommendations,

00:29:51.084 --> 00:29:52.644
we do recommend proton or yeah.

00:29:52.765 --> 00:29:53.384
Proton pass.

00:29:53.744 --> 00:29:56.046
We do recommend bit warden at this time.

00:29:56.086 --> 00:29:57.346
We do still recommend one password.

00:29:57.406 --> 00:29:58.307
We recommend persona.

00:29:59.167 --> 00:30:01.308
And we recommend KeePassXE as well as

00:30:01.348 --> 00:30:02.769
KeePassium, GoPass,

00:30:03.029 --> 00:30:05.192
and KeePassDX for Android.

00:30:05.211 --> 00:30:06.932
I was skipped right past that, my bad.

00:30:07.373 --> 00:30:08.713
So yeah,

00:30:08.753 --> 00:30:09.874
check out the website if you want some

00:30:09.894 --> 00:30:10.775
other recommendations,

00:30:10.815 --> 00:30:13.096
if you're interested in getting away from

00:30:14.376 --> 00:30:14.997
one password.

00:30:15.176 --> 00:30:16.377
If you care, if you don't care,

00:30:16.417 --> 00:30:17.378
then hey, we still recommend it.

00:30:18.817 --> 00:30:21.298
Yeah, on that note,

00:30:21.317 --> 00:30:23.118
we did actually have some updates

00:30:23.199 --> 00:30:25.681
pertaining to Arch and one password.

00:30:25.701 --> 00:30:26.381
But real quick,

00:30:26.421 --> 00:30:27.842
I think I flagged a couple of questions

00:30:27.882 --> 00:30:28.701
here in the chat.

00:30:30.442 --> 00:30:31.804
Yeah, somebody asked here,

00:30:33.224 --> 00:30:34.924
recently heard about Kagi search engine

00:30:34.964 --> 00:30:36.266
rejected as a tool suggestion on the

00:30:36.306 --> 00:30:36.546
forum,

00:30:36.566 --> 00:30:37.967
but that was back in twenty twenty three.

00:30:38.067 --> 00:30:39.907
Any more recent thoughts about it?

00:30:41.249 --> 00:30:42.690
I would have to go look up why

00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:44.851
it was rejected to have thoughts,

00:30:44.871 --> 00:30:45.530
to be honest.

00:30:46.131 --> 00:30:47.071
I don't know if you have any thoughts

00:30:47.092 --> 00:30:47.332
on that.

00:30:49.098 --> 00:30:49.298
Um,

00:30:49.459 --> 00:30:53.823
I think there was a response here from

00:30:53.923 --> 00:30:54.303
Jonah.

00:30:54.323 --> 00:30:55.804
So I'll just read what Jonah said and

00:30:56.085 --> 00:31:00.407
the reasoning behind what happened,

00:31:00.667 --> 00:31:03.210
like why it was marked as rejected.

00:31:04.131 --> 00:31:05.632
Um, so Jonah said,

00:31:05.892 --> 00:31:07.212
given that four search engines,

00:31:07.232 --> 00:31:09.595
which meet our existing criteria and also

00:31:09.634 --> 00:31:11.757
are quite good, um,

00:31:11.777 --> 00:31:13.678
give you the option to disable ads

00:31:13.739 --> 00:31:14.659
natively for free.

00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:15.400
Um,

00:31:17.808 --> 00:31:18.210
Basically,

00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:21.711
that's what is excluding Kagi from being

00:31:21.751 --> 00:31:28.355
included in our criteria at the moment.

00:31:31.458 --> 00:31:33.179
So, yeah.

00:31:35.540 --> 00:31:36.862
There's some interesting stuff in this

00:31:36.882 --> 00:31:37.142
thread.

00:31:37.182 --> 00:31:38.083
I would say, you know,

00:31:38.163 --> 00:31:42.685
if you're considering it,

00:31:42.865 --> 00:31:44.646
we can always come back to this again.

00:31:45.386 --> 00:31:45.647
I think...

00:31:46.617 --> 00:31:47.901
They've definitely made some progress on

00:31:47.921 --> 00:31:48.261
things.

00:31:48.501 --> 00:31:50.866
And if you do think that maybe we

00:31:50.926 --> 00:31:51.047
can...

00:31:53.828 --> 00:31:56.191
have a further discussion about this.

00:31:56.750 --> 00:31:59.913
There was someone from Kagi who joined the

00:31:59.953 --> 00:32:01.914
forum and answered some of the questions.

00:32:03.036 --> 00:32:04.517
I think they have improved the privacy of

00:32:04.557 --> 00:32:05.357
the product a bit more,

00:32:05.417 --> 00:32:08.980
but the issue I think was using an

00:32:09.020 --> 00:32:09.461
account,

00:32:09.621 --> 00:32:11.762
linking it back to your identity is a

00:32:11.803 --> 00:32:12.624
little bit of an issue.

00:32:12.683 --> 00:32:14.144
I know they've worked pretty hard on

00:32:14.224 --> 00:32:15.865
trying to protect that information,

00:32:15.945 --> 00:32:18.107
but it does kind of happen when you

00:32:21.433 --> 00:32:22.595
when it requires an account,

00:32:22.615 --> 00:32:25.758
it becomes a privacy issue.

00:32:25.837 --> 00:32:27.519
And especially when we have all these

00:32:27.578 --> 00:32:29.140
other free options that don't require

00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.162
that, it becomes tricky.

00:32:31.842 --> 00:32:33.623
I don't think just because we don't

00:32:33.682 --> 00:32:35.105
recommend it doesn't mean you shouldn't

00:32:35.224 --> 00:32:35.484
use it.

00:32:35.565 --> 00:32:38.987
You should weigh up if this is reasonable.

00:32:39.387 --> 00:32:39.827
Oh, yeah,

00:32:39.968 --> 00:32:41.829
Oddbyte says there is the privacy pass.

00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:42.269
Yes.

00:32:42.869 --> 00:32:43.730
So they do have, like,

00:32:43.790 --> 00:32:45.392
a way of protecting that information.

00:32:46.553 --> 00:32:46.993
But I think...

00:32:47.923 --> 00:32:50.065
It's, it does make it a little bit,

00:32:50.625 --> 00:32:52.144
I'm not sure if that would still fit

00:32:52.305 --> 00:32:53.925
our, our requirements though,

00:32:54.145 --> 00:32:55.246
but we can revisit this.

00:32:56.787 --> 00:32:59.647
We haven't really had much like movement

00:32:59.688 --> 00:33:00.347
on this really.

00:33:00.607 --> 00:33:02.368
So I'm not really sure if it's sometimes

00:33:02.409 --> 00:33:04.249
it's just like people in our community are

00:33:04.288 --> 00:33:05.750
not like pushing for it super hard.

00:33:06.589 --> 00:33:08.530
So if people aren't pushing for it,

00:33:08.570 --> 00:33:09.951
then it doesn't get updated and it doesn't

00:33:09.971 --> 00:33:10.411
get added.

00:33:10.550 --> 00:33:12.172
So if this is something you want to

00:33:12.192 --> 00:33:12.332
see,

00:33:12.352 --> 00:33:14.792
you have to really make your voice heard

00:33:14.833 --> 00:33:15.232
on the forum.

00:33:17.642 --> 00:33:19.083
Yeah, looking at the minimum requirements,

00:33:19.143 --> 00:33:20.864
it says must not require users to create

00:33:20.884 --> 00:33:22.785
an account for search engines.

00:33:22.825 --> 00:33:26.126
So if you believe that Kagi should be

00:33:26.247 --> 00:33:26.666
eligible,

00:33:26.686 --> 00:33:28.448
then I guess that would be the argument.

00:33:28.488 --> 00:33:30.808
Like, why is that OK?

00:33:30.848 --> 00:33:31.529
But like you said, yeah,

00:33:31.569 --> 00:33:33.070
I don't think any of us recommend against

00:33:33.090 --> 00:33:33.490
Kagi.

00:33:33.510 --> 00:33:36.231
It's just we've already got several other

00:33:36.311 --> 00:33:37.133
options listed.

00:33:37.173 --> 00:33:41.494
And yeah, I don't know.

00:33:41.515 --> 00:33:43.056
I guess I got nothing else on that.

00:33:43.455 --> 00:33:43.936
What else here?

00:33:45.583 --> 00:33:47.943
Somebody on the graphene topic real quick,

00:33:47.983 --> 00:33:48.364
they said,

00:33:49.064 --> 00:33:50.345
sorry to bring it back to graphene,

00:33:50.565 --> 00:33:51.984
but I lost it.

00:33:52.005 --> 00:33:52.326
Where'd it go?

00:33:53.185 --> 00:33:54.226
Could it be that Google may want to

00:33:54.266 --> 00:33:55.287
backdoor on pixels?

00:33:56.166 --> 00:33:56.606
I don't know.

00:33:57.267 --> 00:33:57.867
I don't think so.

00:33:58.028 --> 00:33:59.827
I feel like a lot of phone providers

00:33:59.847 --> 00:34:02.589
are actually being pretty adversarial with

00:34:02.630 --> 00:34:04.309
police and making life harder for them.

00:34:04.569 --> 00:34:05.009
Like, you know,

00:34:05.170 --> 00:34:06.391
iPhones rolled out that thing where they

00:34:06.471 --> 00:34:08.231
automatically reboot after three days now.

00:34:08.351 --> 00:34:11.112
So I don't, I'm also, again,

00:34:11.132 --> 00:34:12.532
I'm not sure if getting rid of MTE

00:34:12.572 --> 00:34:14.094
was necessarily the best way to do that,

00:34:14.153 --> 00:34:14.313
but.

00:34:14.815 --> 00:34:15.356
I could be wrong.

00:34:15.576 --> 00:34:16.836
I'm not an expert on that kind of

00:34:16.856 --> 00:34:19.259
stuff.

00:34:19.278 --> 00:34:20.480
The last one I had here,

00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.123
Jan Modal said,

00:34:23.222 --> 00:34:25.164
any thoughts on the proposed takeover of

00:34:25.224 --> 00:34:26.284
Hugging Face by NVIDIA?

00:34:26.324 --> 00:34:27.746
Seems like a threat to open source weights

00:34:27.766 --> 00:34:28.646
and local AI.

00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:32.030
I mean, me personally,

00:34:32.110 --> 00:34:33.251
I don't really have too many thoughts

00:34:33.291 --> 00:34:36.635
because I think, again,

00:34:36.675 --> 00:34:37.896
this is another technical thing that goes

00:34:37.916 --> 00:34:38.335
over my head,

00:34:38.356 --> 00:34:39.838
but I don't think AI is really open

00:34:39.878 --> 00:34:40.938
source enough anyways.

00:34:40.958 --> 00:34:41.378
Yeah.

00:34:43.648 --> 00:34:43.789
Like,

00:34:43.809 --> 00:34:45.670
I don't know if open sourcing the models

00:34:45.710 --> 00:34:46.791
like that really counts.

00:34:46.891 --> 00:34:49.413
And also like our old coworker M really

00:34:49.432 --> 00:34:50.833
made a good point that I think about

00:34:50.853 --> 00:34:51.713
a lot now that like,

00:34:52.875 --> 00:34:54.476
there's kind of two sides of AI when

00:34:54.496 --> 00:34:55.376
we talk about privacy.

00:34:55.396 --> 00:34:56.898
There's the privacy of the end user and

00:34:56.958 --> 00:34:58.398
using open source models and open source

00:34:58.418 --> 00:34:59.699
clients and stuff like that.

00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:01.641
But then there's the fact that all this

00:35:01.681 --> 00:35:03.061
training data was taken from people who

00:35:03.101 --> 00:35:04.101
didn't consent to it,

00:35:04.882 --> 00:35:06.304
who can't opt out of it.

00:35:07.324 --> 00:35:09.266
So there's kind of the argument that AI

00:35:09.306 --> 00:35:10.567
can't be private in the first place.

00:35:11.476 --> 00:35:11.815
I don't know.

00:35:11.856 --> 00:35:12.056
To me,

00:35:12.275 --> 00:35:13.637
it's very low on my list of priorities

00:35:13.657 --> 00:35:14.476
when it comes to AI.

00:35:14.536 --> 00:35:15.818
I don't know if you have any better

00:35:15.878 --> 00:35:18.079
insights.

00:35:18.318 --> 00:35:18.639
Yeah,

00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:23.061
I think we're kind of pushing for people

00:35:23.081 --> 00:35:26.583
to use local AI instead of these cloud

00:35:26.603 --> 00:35:27.182
providers.

00:35:28.724 --> 00:35:30.503
If you do check our recommendations,

00:35:32.144 --> 00:35:34.525
we do recommend some stuff that's like

00:35:35.467 --> 00:35:36.106
using these

00:35:37.594 --> 00:35:39.094
I guess like local,

00:35:39.195 --> 00:35:41.195
like open weight models, I suppose.

00:35:43.318 --> 00:35:43.737
And, you know,

00:35:43.777 --> 00:35:45.259
we've got some recommendations.

00:35:45.278 --> 00:35:50.643
We recommend Kobold, CCP, CPP, CPP, CPP,

00:35:51.123 --> 00:35:52.903
Olamer, you know, stuff like that,

00:35:52.923 --> 00:35:53.585
Olamer file.

00:35:53.864 --> 00:35:54.545
So, you know,

00:35:55.146 --> 00:35:58.208
we think people should be using these from

00:35:58.248 --> 00:36:02.190
a privacy perspective, but like Nate said,

00:36:02.291 --> 00:36:04.572
and like what Em has kind of,

00:36:04.731 --> 00:36:05.913
if you follow Em on Mastodon,

00:36:06.132 --> 00:36:07.153
you'll know that she's like,

00:36:07.914 --> 00:36:10.534
very outspoken against this ai stuff um

00:36:10.614 --> 00:36:11.894
and she has really good opinions on this

00:36:11.916 --> 00:36:15.396
sort of thing um the the data that

00:36:16.056 --> 00:36:17.918
is getting scraped up by these ai models

00:36:18.038 --> 00:36:22.458
is gargantuan it's non-consensual it's

00:36:23.298 --> 00:36:25.940
it's not great so i think we have

00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:28.981
to also think about the privacy of you

00:36:29.001 --> 00:36:31.061
know all those people as well uh when

00:36:31.101 --> 00:36:33.063
you use these models i think you are

00:36:33.262 --> 00:36:33.643
kind of

00:36:35.873 --> 00:36:39.835
I guess using all that data that's been

00:36:39.876 --> 00:36:41.715
scraped up by these AI companies.

00:36:43.356 --> 00:36:44.137
So, you know,

00:36:44.476 --> 00:36:46.097
I think that's a little bit morally,

00:36:46.478 --> 00:36:47.878
it's a moral issue,

00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:50.119
but I think if you just want privacy

00:36:50.139 --> 00:36:50.639
for yourself,

00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:52.119
you should be running these local models.

00:36:52.179 --> 00:36:54.101
But I think, you know,

00:36:55.597 --> 00:36:57.518
The takeover of Hugging Face by NVIDIA,

00:36:57.619 --> 00:36:59.478
I don't think it's going to have that

00:36:59.539 --> 00:37:01.559
big of an issue because there's so many

00:37:01.659 --> 00:37:05.041
other companies that have and host these

00:37:05.061 --> 00:37:05.661
models too.

00:37:07.382 --> 00:37:08.983
So I'm not really sure if that's going

00:37:09.003 --> 00:37:12.744
to have a huge impact in my opinion.

00:37:15.275 --> 00:37:16.557
Yeah.

00:37:16.617 --> 00:37:17.820
I know we're getting some other questions,

00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:20.222
but we'll save those for a little bit

00:37:20.262 --> 00:37:21.445
and we'll move on to some of the

00:37:21.605 --> 00:37:22.827
site updates.

00:37:23.126 --> 00:37:23.969
And I think I'm going to turn it

00:37:24.009 --> 00:37:24.909
over to you, Jordan,

00:37:24.929 --> 00:37:27.893
because we were talking about Moldad and

00:37:29.195 --> 00:37:29.536
Arch,

00:37:29.637 --> 00:37:31.318
and I know we have some updates pertaining

00:37:31.358 --> 00:37:31.840
to that stuff.

00:37:33.661 --> 00:37:36.983
yes so um i've been i've had a

00:37:37.003 --> 00:37:38.682
little bit of extra time this week so

00:37:38.762 --> 00:37:40.784
i was going through some of the pull

00:37:40.824 --> 00:37:43.965
requests that we needed to get um put

00:37:44.005 --> 00:37:46.646
through so i guess the first one is

00:37:47.327 --> 00:37:49.467
fixing some dead links on the site there

00:37:49.487 --> 00:37:53.469
was a bunch of stuff that was like

00:37:53.510 --> 00:37:56.110
originally linked to the original page and

00:37:56.130 --> 00:37:57.791
the link became dead so we've had to

00:37:57.871 --> 00:37:59.612
archive those um

00:38:00.168 --> 00:38:01.708
So those have been updated to actually

00:38:01.728 --> 00:38:03.128
include archive links instead.

00:38:04.248 --> 00:38:05.449
And like I talked about before,

00:38:05.469 --> 00:38:07.510
we were talking a bit about Omaki Linux.

00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:10.811
And it was because we had suggestions to

00:38:10.931 --> 00:38:13.891
recommend against Omaki Linux because we

00:38:13.952 --> 00:38:16.713
recommended against Garuda and Manjaro

00:38:16.753 --> 00:38:17.193
before.

00:38:17.512 --> 00:38:20.193
But that was, as far as I'm aware,

00:38:20.293 --> 00:38:22.494
I could tell was those were old

00:38:23.233 --> 00:38:25.275
recommendations from privacy tools.

00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:28.802
So we kind of don't do

00:38:28.963 --> 00:38:30.204
anti-recommendations anymore.

00:38:30.224 --> 00:38:31.804
We don't recommend against anything.

00:38:31.844 --> 00:38:34.067
We just make suggestions that people

00:38:34.086 --> 00:38:35.628
should use something.

00:38:36.789 --> 00:38:38.409
So we kind of had a bit of

00:38:38.429 --> 00:38:40.791
a discussion between some team members and

00:38:40.831 --> 00:38:42.733
also some community members as well about

00:38:42.773 --> 00:38:43.134
this.

00:38:44.996 --> 00:38:46.416
And we kind of came to the consensus

00:38:46.456 --> 00:38:50.300
that we shouldn't be recommending against

00:38:51.833 --> 00:38:54.898
specific arch derivatives.

00:38:55.458 --> 00:38:57.262
And instead we should just be making

00:38:57.322 --> 00:38:58.503
suggestions such as, you know,

00:38:58.583 --> 00:39:01.106
being careful about using the AUR and

00:39:01.608 --> 00:39:04.992
suggesting that people use only the

00:39:05.052 --> 00:39:05.934
mainline arch

00:39:08.449 --> 00:39:11.871
distro so yeah we are trying to move

00:39:11.911 --> 00:39:14.092
away from anti-recommendations because I

00:39:14.112 --> 00:39:15.572
think if we did include

00:39:15.652 --> 00:39:17.574
anti-recommendations the entire site would

00:39:17.594 --> 00:39:19.775
have it would be so bloated there would

00:39:19.795 --> 00:39:21.697
be so many things everywhere about not

00:39:21.757 --> 00:39:23.237
what we what we don't recommend what we

00:39:23.257 --> 00:39:25.699
do recommend it would just be not great

00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:26.900
and I think that's

00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:28.722
kind of been something we've been pushing

00:39:28.762 --> 00:39:30.983
for for quite a while to update that.

00:39:31.043 --> 00:39:32.963
So that has been updated.

00:39:34.403 --> 00:39:36.885
And there was some work there from Daniel

00:39:37.125 --> 00:39:39.987
and Freya who both worked on that.

00:39:40.226 --> 00:39:41.748
I also did a little bit of work

00:39:41.788 --> 00:39:42.887
on that pull request too.

00:39:43.827 --> 00:39:45.949
And there was another one here and that

00:39:45.969 --> 00:39:48.831
was removing Molvad DNS because

00:39:50.164 --> 00:39:51.505
The writing has been on the wall for

00:39:51.545 --> 00:39:51.947
a while,

00:39:52.007 --> 00:39:57.030
but Molvad's public DNS provider is not

00:39:57.130 --> 00:39:57.992
available anymore.

00:39:58.092 --> 00:40:00.914
So I guess this is something that we've

00:40:01.135 --> 00:40:02.536
known was going to happen for a while.

00:40:03.817 --> 00:40:06.539
There was information about that happening

00:40:06.619 --> 00:40:08.061
for a little while,

00:40:08.101 --> 00:40:10.443
but we removed every mention of Molvad's

00:40:10.483 --> 00:40:12.304
DNS service from our website because we

00:40:12.384 --> 00:40:13.706
did used to recommend them.

00:40:15.367 --> 00:40:18.889
So their encrypted DNS providers are no

00:40:18.929 --> 00:40:20.068
longer operating.

00:40:20.869 --> 00:40:23.070
There was a forum discussion about this as

00:40:23.190 --> 00:40:23.590
well.

00:40:25.791 --> 00:40:27.273
It's kind of been sad because we've seen

00:40:27.572 --> 00:40:31.494
quite a lot of DNS servers being shut

00:40:31.534 --> 00:40:32.155
down as well.

00:40:32.215 --> 00:40:34.317
But it looks like Molvad made a blog

00:40:34.356 --> 00:40:36.438
post here and they're sponsoring QuadNine

00:40:36.478 --> 00:40:38.599
instead, which I think makes sense.

00:40:38.699 --> 00:40:40.019
QuadNine is a great project.

00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:41.800
They've also been super reliable when it

00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:42.260
comes to

00:40:43.085 --> 00:40:44.168
public DNS servers.

00:40:45.333 --> 00:40:47.740
So it's definitely interesting.

00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:48.864
I guess I'll read a little bit from

00:40:50.557 --> 00:40:52.378
Malvad's blog post for why they're doing

00:40:52.420 --> 00:40:53.139
it.

00:40:53.179 --> 00:40:55.461
Malvad has operated public encrypted DNS

00:40:55.481 --> 00:40:56.742
service since twenty twenty two.

00:40:56.802 --> 00:40:58.884
They are unnecessary when using Malvad

00:40:58.903 --> 00:40:59.344
VPN.

00:40:59.545 --> 00:41:01.385
Traffic is already encrypted and Malvad's

00:41:01.485 --> 00:41:03.807
VPN internal DNS handles all queries

00:41:03.927 --> 00:41:04.668
outside the VPN.

00:41:04.728 --> 00:41:05.789
They serve two purposes.

00:41:06.329 --> 00:41:08.010
Malvad browser uses them by default when

00:41:08.030 --> 00:41:09.291
you're not on Malvad VPN,

00:41:09.331 --> 00:41:10.672
preventing your ISP from seeing the

00:41:10.693 --> 00:41:12.914
domains you visit and anyone can use them

00:41:13.335 --> 00:41:15.237
as a free public service to protect their

00:41:15.257 --> 00:41:17.577
DNS queries.

00:41:17.699 --> 00:41:18.099
We want

00:41:18.626 --> 00:41:20.268
A public service to be available going

00:41:20.288 --> 00:41:21.929
forward will support Quad Nine instead of

00:41:21.949 --> 00:41:22.949
running it ourselves.

00:41:23.510 --> 00:41:26.072
Running a privacy focused public DNS is

00:41:26.112 --> 00:41:28.273
highly specialized undertaking and the

00:41:28.293 --> 00:41:30.715
Quad Nine Foundation is the undisputed

00:41:30.896 --> 00:41:31.876
leader in the field.

00:41:32.217 --> 00:41:33.657
Rather than duplicating their efforts to

00:41:33.717 --> 00:41:35.119
achieve only part of what they do,

00:41:35.498 --> 00:41:37.019
we're putting resources towards

00:41:37.059 --> 00:41:40.802
financially supporting Quad Nine instead.

00:41:40.943 --> 00:41:42.163
So, yeah.

00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.360
You should be good if you're migrating.

00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.222
If you're manually selecting the server,

00:41:48.242 --> 00:41:49.342
you'll need to update that.

00:41:49.702 --> 00:41:52.702
And if you use iOS or macOS profiles,

00:41:52.722 --> 00:41:54.443
you'll need to delete those and replace

00:41:54.483 --> 00:41:55.762
them with the quad nine ones.

00:41:56.722 --> 00:41:57.163
So, yeah,

00:41:57.922 --> 00:42:00.684
very interesting stuff going on with site

00:42:00.744 --> 00:42:04.403
updates this week.

00:42:04.704 --> 00:42:05.505
Lots of changes.

00:42:05.945 --> 00:42:06.985
I guess I'll throw it back to you,

00:42:07.025 --> 00:42:07.324
Nate,

00:42:07.385 --> 00:42:09.264
for we've definitely been having a lot of

00:42:09.425 --> 00:42:10.806
news briefs going up this week.

00:42:10.865 --> 00:42:12.646
So definitely a big week.

00:42:12.666 --> 00:42:13.045
Yeah.

00:42:13.809 --> 00:42:14.230
For sure.

00:42:14.710 --> 00:42:16.112
I'll just say I'm sad about them shutting

00:42:16.132 --> 00:42:17.534
that down because Quad Nine's great,

00:42:17.574 --> 00:42:18.855
but they don't do any ad blocking or

00:42:18.894 --> 00:42:19.335
anything.

00:42:20.898 --> 00:42:22.920
And I think I was using Mulvad's DNS

00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:23.880
on my TV,

00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:25.623
so I need to go check that after

00:42:25.643 --> 00:42:26.023
this.

00:42:26.063 --> 00:42:28.507
But yeah,

00:42:28.547 --> 00:42:29.628
I guess we'll find out when the TV

00:42:29.648 --> 00:42:30.429
just stops resolving.

00:42:33.137 --> 00:42:34.097
Um, but yeah,

00:42:34.117 --> 00:42:35.579
you guys saw on the screen I was

00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:36.179
sharing, we,

00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:37.719
we do have other recommendations,

00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.320
add guard control D quad nine cloud flare

00:42:40.501 --> 00:42:40.760
next DNS.

00:42:40.780 --> 00:42:43.222
So if you're, you were using mall bad,

00:42:43.242 --> 00:42:43.902
go check that out.

00:42:44.141 --> 00:42:46.123
Um, in the meantime, yeah, we did have,

00:42:46.143 --> 00:42:48.204
uh, quite a few, um,

00:42:48.623 --> 00:42:50.623
privacy and security news i uh i normally

00:42:50.643 --> 00:42:51.784
don't toot my own horn about the data

00:42:51.804 --> 00:42:53.005
breach roundup but i do want to give

00:42:53.025 --> 00:42:54.304
it a shout out this week because there

00:42:54.344 --> 00:42:58.465
was actually a major id uh identification

00:42:58.505 --> 00:43:00.505
driver's license driver's license breach

00:43:00.545 --> 00:43:02.927
that's actually still ongoing i think that

00:43:02.947 --> 00:43:05.007
brian krebs wrote about it and then like

00:43:05.047 --> 00:43:06.927
several other major outlets wrote about it

00:43:07.608 --> 00:43:09.588
um so it's it's pretty big scope i

00:43:09.608 --> 00:43:10.228
think they said they have like

00:43:13.289 --> 00:43:13.449
Um,

00:43:13.469 --> 00:43:14.628
it's a vendor who works with age

00:43:14.648 --> 00:43:15.590
verification stuff.

00:43:15.670 --> 00:43:16.789
So, uh,

00:43:16.829 --> 00:43:18.190
definitely check that out and just kind of

00:43:18.409 --> 00:43:19.710
get the, the basics.

00:43:19.730 --> 00:43:21.391
If you're haven't heard that story,

00:43:21.490 --> 00:43:22.210
cause it is a big one.

00:43:22.871 --> 00:43:22.931
Uh,

00:43:22.951 --> 00:43:24.391
the signal Android beta has support for

00:43:24.431 --> 00:43:26.231
numberless accounts, uh,

00:43:26.251 --> 00:43:27.431
thought about covering that this week,

00:43:27.452 --> 00:43:28.731
but I think we'll wait until it's fully

00:43:28.791 --> 00:43:29.032
launched.

00:43:29.052 --> 00:43:29.472
Cause right now,

00:43:29.492 --> 00:43:30.552
like we don't know how the payments are

00:43:30.572 --> 00:43:31.213
going to work still.

00:43:31.233 --> 00:43:32.353
So there's not a lot to talk about.

00:43:32.873 --> 00:43:34.632
Google had a crazy bug where the messages

00:43:34.713 --> 00:43:36.393
app was sending old texts to random

00:43:36.414 --> 00:43:36.833
people,

00:43:37.474 --> 00:43:39.034
a router manufacturer found with multiple

00:43:39.054 --> 00:43:39.994
backdoors in the product.

00:43:40.153 --> 00:43:41.855
And of course the headline story was

00:43:41.894 --> 00:43:42.855
discussed, uh,

00:43:43.434 --> 00:43:44.394
as it happened this week.

00:43:44.494 --> 00:43:46.235
You know, if you're watching the video,

00:43:46.255 --> 00:43:48.356
you can see here's Graphene OS unable to

00:43:48.376 --> 00:43:50.577
complete the Pixel port and then Pixel XI

00:43:50.617 --> 00:43:52.277
hardware MTE support may still be usable

00:43:52.297 --> 00:43:52.858
for Graphene.

00:43:52.898 --> 00:43:55.298
So definitely subscribing to our new

00:43:55.338 --> 00:43:57.960
section is a great way to stay updated

00:43:57.980 --> 00:43:59.239
on things as they happen.

00:44:00.567 --> 00:44:03.128
And the last thing to mention is we

00:44:03.168 --> 00:44:04.369
do have some new videos coming out.

00:44:04.409 --> 00:44:06.690
We had our password manager tier list

00:44:06.730 --> 00:44:08.811
video, which got a lot of views,

00:44:08.851 --> 00:44:09.692
got a lot of traction.

00:44:09.871 --> 00:44:10.992
People had a lot of opinions.

00:44:12.092 --> 00:44:12.873
That's super cool.

00:44:12.893 --> 00:44:13.813
So if you haven't seen that,

00:44:13.853 --> 00:44:14.414
check that out.

00:44:15.135 --> 00:44:17.556
And we have an interview coming up with

00:44:17.596 --> 00:44:18.936
someone who works on the

00:44:20.614 --> 00:44:23.315
the more like corporate side of things in

00:44:23.376 --> 00:44:23.896
privacy.

00:44:24.615 --> 00:44:25.717
I don't really know how to describe it,

00:44:25.777 --> 00:44:26.277
but yeah,

00:44:26.356 --> 00:44:28.018
it's gonna be really interesting.

00:44:28.057 --> 00:44:29.777
We talk about a lot of how do

00:44:29.998 --> 00:44:31.978
you figure out what marketing is legit and

00:44:31.998 --> 00:44:32.679
what's not,

00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:34.340
how do you read your privacy policy,

00:44:34.420 --> 00:44:35.340
all kinds of cool stuff.

00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:37.960
And we just started editing,

00:44:38.481 --> 00:44:40.561
Jordan just started editing a video about

00:44:40.702 --> 00:44:42.083
Apple versus the FBI.

00:44:42.951 --> 00:44:46.193
For any of you who were around and

00:44:46.293 --> 00:44:47.413
old enough to have memory in twenty

00:44:47.432 --> 00:44:48.514
fifteen, twenty sixteen,

00:44:49.273 --> 00:44:51.034
that was a really wild story.

00:44:51.195 --> 00:44:52.556
And we got to dive into how it

00:44:52.596 --> 00:44:52.896
worked.

00:44:52.956 --> 00:44:54.056
And I think that one's going to be

00:44:54.856 --> 00:44:55.297
pretty cool.

00:44:55.376 --> 00:44:56.157
I'm excited about that.

00:44:56.376 --> 00:44:57.717
So, yeah.

00:44:58.257 --> 00:44:59.438
All this is made possible by our

00:44:59.478 --> 00:44:59.920
supporters.

00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:01.280
You can sign up for a membership or

00:45:01.340 --> 00:45:03.222
donate at privacyguides.org or pick up

00:45:03.242 --> 00:45:05.184
some swag at shop.privacyguides.org.

00:45:05.744 --> 00:45:07.166
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit that

00:45:07.206 --> 00:45:08.586
researches and shares privacy-related

00:45:08.626 --> 00:45:10.307
information and facilitates a community on

00:45:10.347 --> 00:45:12.010
our forum and on Matrix where people can

00:45:12.050 --> 00:45:13.471
ask questions and get advice about staying

00:45:13.510 --> 00:45:14.811
private online and preserving their

00:45:14.851 --> 00:45:15.733
digital rights.

00:45:16.532 --> 00:45:18.255
And I think now we're going to talk

00:45:18.275 --> 00:45:19.755
about a story that illustrates how much

00:45:19.795 --> 00:45:22.157
control certain governments can exert over

00:45:22.197 --> 00:45:22.778
the internet.

00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:23.981
And again,

00:45:24.021 --> 00:45:25.184
remember to leave your comments and

00:45:25.224 --> 00:45:26.027
questions in the chat,

00:45:26.108 --> 00:45:27.492
and we will get to them in between

00:45:27.552 --> 00:45:27.952
stories.

00:45:29.748 --> 00:45:30.068
Yes,

00:45:30.148 --> 00:45:33.030
so this week there was something that

00:45:33.190 --> 00:45:37.414
happened that involved the current United

00:45:37.474 --> 00:45:41.916
States administration, let's just say.

00:45:41.956 --> 00:45:44.338
Trump goes after anonymous email provider

00:45:44.778 --> 00:45:45.338
in Italy.

00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:48.481
The real target is free speech in the

00:45:48.601 --> 00:45:48.981
US.

00:45:49.521 --> 00:45:52.864
So Secretary of State Marco Rubio and

00:45:52.925 --> 00:45:55.646
Treasury Secretary Scott Besant

00:45:56.226 --> 00:45:57.746
announced Wednesday that they were

00:45:57.786 --> 00:46:00.427
targeting the Italy-based Autistici

00:46:00.487 --> 00:46:02.867
Inventati Collective with terror

00:46:02.887 --> 00:46:03.509
sanctions.

00:46:04.088 --> 00:46:06.869
A wide array of anarchist, anti-fascist,

00:46:06.989 --> 00:46:09.250
and far-left groups in the US and abroad

00:46:09.389 --> 00:46:11.250
use the privacy-minded collective's

00:46:11.349 --> 00:46:11.750
offerings,

00:46:11.829 --> 00:46:14.570
including an anonymous email service and

00:46:14.650 --> 00:46:18.012
its popular NoBlogs.org blogging platform.

00:46:18.572 --> 00:46:20.751
The practice of designating an internet

00:46:20.791 --> 00:46:23.612
platform and service provider as a terror

00:46:23.632 --> 00:46:23.853
group

00:46:24.172 --> 00:46:26.135
rather than those pursuing violence

00:46:26.155 --> 00:46:26.715
themselves,

00:46:27.074 --> 00:46:29.956
has huge implications for the future of

00:46:29.998 --> 00:46:31.478
free speech on the internet,

00:46:32.358 --> 00:46:33.880
warned Gillian York,

00:46:34.061 --> 00:46:36.061
the Director of International Freedom of

00:46:36.141 --> 00:46:38.704
Expression at the Electronic Frontier

00:46:38.744 --> 00:46:39.324
Foundation.

00:46:39.905 --> 00:46:41.106
They're going after the messenger,

00:46:41.206 --> 00:46:41.726
York said.

00:46:42.146 --> 00:46:43.407
I don't think that the members of the

00:46:43.427 --> 00:46:45.489
group would necessarily condone the

00:46:45.568 --> 00:46:47.110
actions of people that they hosted.

00:46:47.490 --> 00:46:49.092
What they do condone is the freedom to

00:46:49.152 --> 00:46:51.012
host, the ability to be anonymous,

00:46:51.353 --> 00:46:52.815
and the ability to be private.

00:46:54.447 --> 00:46:57.128
The AI collective told The Intercept that

00:46:57.228 --> 00:46:59.409
it is exploring its legal options to fight

00:46:59.429 --> 00:47:02.369
the sanctions which blocks US citizens and

00:47:02.429 --> 00:47:05.210
companies from providing the group with

00:47:05.271 --> 00:47:06.251
financial support.

00:47:06.831 --> 00:47:09.612
Anti-fascism and anti-capitalism are not

00:47:09.652 --> 00:47:10.172
terrorism.

00:47:10.371 --> 00:47:12.813
The group said protesting is not terrorism

00:47:12.932 --> 00:47:14.612
and everyone has the right to speak out

00:47:14.693 --> 00:47:16.373
and to struggle for humanity.

00:47:17.054 --> 00:47:19.094
And the state and Treasury departments

00:47:19.135 --> 00:47:21.614
justify the designation by alleging that

00:47:21.655 --> 00:47:23.996
the Autistici Inventati Collective,

00:47:24.135 --> 00:47:26.777
also known as AI,

00:47:26.916 --> 00:47:29.637
has provided services to foreign terror

00:47:29.657 --> 00:47:29.998
groups,

00:47:30.077 --> 00:47:31.777
including anarchists who have launched

00:47:31.818 --> 00:47:34.259
attacks on railroads and pipelines in

00:47:34.398 --> 00:47:36.619
Europe and by domestic left wing groups

00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.320
that have employed violence.

00:47:40.179 --> 00:47:42.721
So I guess we will start by saying

00:47:44.797 --> 00:47:47.639
This is, well, okay, I'll just,

00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:49.778
I'll pivot to this other article here.

00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:55.300
This is from the EDRI,

00:47:55.320 --> 00:47:57.121
their European group that basically

00:47:57.422 --> 00:47:58.481
supports digital rights.

00:47:59.181 --> 00:47:59.742
And it says,

00:48:00.422 --> 00:48:02.963
EDRI stands in solidarity with Autistica

00:48:03.003 --> 00:48:05.123
Inventati after terrorist designation by

00:48:05.143 --> 00:48:05.963
the US government.

00:48:06.664 --> 00:48:08.945
And basically,

00:48:09.605 --> 00:48:12.425
their stance on things with how this works

00:48:12.565 --> 00:48:13.025
is that

00:48:14.139 --> 00:48:18.041
this is an attack on decentralized

00:48:18.541 --> 00:48:21.463
nonprofit communications providers.

00:48:21.664 --> 00:48:25.626
And that if this was to be,

00:48:26.927 --> 00:48:27.527
you know, if they were,

00:48:27.586 --> 00:48:29.367
if they were to do this properly,

00:48:29.427 --> 00:48:31.228
they should have gone after the specific

00:48:31.268 --> 00:48:33.431
posts and gotten those removed instead

00:48:33.550 --> 00:48:34.550
through, you know,

00:48:34.692 --> 00:48:37.132
legal means instead of just blanket

00:48:38.313 --> 00:48:40.255
labeling this entire organization as

00:48:41.123 --> 00:48:41.884
terrorist group.

00:48:42.884 --> 00:48:44.445
That is usually how things work.

00:48:44.545 --> 00:48:46.364
Imagine if, for instance,

00:48:47.704 --> 00:48:49.585
Signal was designated a terrorist

00:48:49.626 --> 00:48:51.766
organization and just because there was

00:48:51.826 --> 00:48:55.547
people using it who were, you know,

00:48:56.206 --> 00:48:59.347
using it for supposedly nefarious purposes

00:48:59.407 --> 00:48:59.967
which, you know,

00:49:00.027 --> 00:49:02.268
I think even then we don't really know

00:49:02.547 --> 00:49:04.807
how accurate a lot of these claims in

00:49:04.907 --> 00:49:07.628
the press release from the US government

00:49:07.688 --> 00:49:07.969
were.

00:49:09.931 --> 00:49:10.793
I think, you know,

00:49:10.813 --> 00:49:13.916
that's a lot of loaded language in there.

00:49:14.036 --> 00:49:15.878
It's definitely like, you know,

00:49:15.918 --> 00:49:17.139
we're not a hundred percent certain that

00:49:17.179 --> 00:49:18.422
those things are actually true.

00:49:18.963 --> 00:49:21.585
So I think it's definitely an attack on

00:49:21.905 --> 00:49:22.527
free speech.

00:49:23.027 --> 00:49:23.768
It's an attack on...

00:49:27.369 --> 00:49:28.351
freedom of expression.

00:49:28.490 --> 00:49:31.132
And one issue that happened with this was

00:49:31.192 --> 00:49:33.393
that the public interest registry,

00:49:33.452 --> 00:49:35.693
which is based in the United States,

00:49:36.454 --> 00:49:38.996
they disabled Autistici's main domain,

00:49:39.096 --> 00:49:40.255
Autistici.org.

00:49:40.876 --> 00:49:41.737
And, you know,

00:49:41.757 --> 00:49:43.358
their PayPal account got seized.

00:49:43.797 --> 00:49:46.318
Their bank is like almost,

00:49:46.860 --> 00:49:48.340
it's possible their bank account might be

00:49:48.380 --> 00:49:50.001
closed due to these sanctions by the

00:49:50.061 --> 00:49:50.961
United States government.

00:49:51.101 --> 00:49:53.322
And it's kind of showing, you know,

00:49:55.003 --> 00:49:56.023
a lot of people think, you know,

00:49:56.063 --> 00:49:57.465
the United States are the good guys,

00:49:57.565 --> 00:49:59.989
but what happens when they're not the good

00:50:00.028 --> 00:50:00.349
guys?

00:50:00.409 --> 00:50:03.132
What happens when the United States

00:50:03.172 --> 00:50:04.092
government doesn't,

00:50:04.253 --> 00:50:05.514
isn't on the right side of history?

00:50:05.574 --> 00:50:07.036
What happens when that happens?

00:50:07.577 --> 00:50:08.338
And it's,

00:50:09.925 --> 00:50:10.505
It's not good.

00:50:10.786 --> 00:50:12.327
They have too much control over...

00:50:13.106 --> 00:50:15.168
This is an Italian hacktivist group.

00:50:16.088 --> 00:50:16.327
Like,

00:50:16.768 --> 00:50:17.949
they shouldn't be able to have their

00:50:17.989 --> 00:50:20.409
domain seized by a foreign country.

00:50:21.068 --> 00:50:21.869
That's a little weird.

00:50:22.030 --> 00:50:23.190
So anyway,

00:50:23.630 --> 00:50:26.010
kind of been rambling a little bit,

00:50:26.050 --> 00:50:30.391
but hopefully I've kind of shared enough

00:50:30.411 --> 00:50:31.512
about the situation.

00:50:31.532 --> 00:50:34.393
Do you have any thoughts, Nate?

00:50:35.833 --> 00:50:36.094
Uh...

00:50:37.398 --> 00:50:38.119
Sarcastically,

00:50:38.179 --> 00:50:40.260
my first thought is I am an American,

00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:42.101
born in Texas,

00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:43.782
several generations of American,

00:50:43.922 --> 00:50:45.222
and I approve everything you just said.

00:50:45.663 --> 00:50:46.083
And a veteran.

00:50:49.005 --> 00:50:50.545
No, yeah, it's really unfortunate.

00:50:50.565 --> 00:50:51.407
You and I were talking about this a

00:50:51.427 --> 00:50:54.248
little bit prior to hopping on the call

00:50:54.288 --> 00:50:54.467
here.

00:50:54.568 --> 00:50:57.829
It's – I don't know.

00:50:57.990 --> 00:51:00.431
To me, this is such an obvious –

00:51:01.007 --> 00:51:04.369
attack on free speech and it's so like

00:51:04.688 --> 00:51:06.409
the the thing i haven't seen anybody

00:51:06.469 --> 00:51:07.630
talking about is exactly what you

00:51:07.670 --> 00:51:09.052
mentioned and you brought up where it's

00:51:09.072 --> 00:51:12.653
like it shows in this case america but

00:51:12.673 --> 00:51:13.894
i'm sure america is not the only one

00:51:13.934 --> 00:51:15.536
like some of these countries can just

00:51:15.675 --> 00:51:19.518
exert way too much control over um

00:51:20.548 --> 00:51:21.208
over technology.

00:51:21.228 --> 00:51:21.628
And I know I've,

00:51:21.748 --> 00:51:23.170
I've personally been harping on this quite

00:51:23.190 --> 00:51:25.871
a bit lately, but there's, um,

00:51:25.891 --> 00:51:27.371
there's like an overlap, you know, we've,

00:51:27.411 --> 00:51:28.132
we've criticized that.

00:51:28.152 --> 00:51:29.652
Some people are just like, Oh, you know,

00:51:29.773 --> 00:51:30.753
I stay out of politics.

00:51:30.833 --> 00:51:31.793
All politicians suck,

00:51:31.813 --> 00:51:32.434
which for the record,

00:51:32.554 --> 00:51:33.653
a hundred percent with you on that one.

00:51:34.233 --> 00:51:34.333
Um,

00:51:34.353 --> 00:51:35.914
but like all politicians suck and like,

00:51:35.954 --> 00:51:37.175
just, it's, it's all about the encryption.

00:51:37.215 --> 00:51:37.916
It's all about the tools.

00:51:38.376 --> 00:51:38.675
Cool.

00:51:39.155 --> 00:51:40.697
And what happens when the government comes

00:51:40.777 --> 00:51:42.820
in and shuts down the servers or makes

00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:45.141
that tool illegal and they have other ways

00:51:45.181 --> 00:51:45.561
of pressuring?

00:51:45.581 --> 00:51:46.923
Because even with the decentralized stuff,

00:51:47.324 --> 00:51:48.485
it's easy to sit here and be like,

00:51:48.965 --> 00:51:49.585
oh, well, yeah,

00:51:49.606 --> 00:51:50.646
they could shut down Signal,

00:51:50.686 --> 00:51:52.489
but they can't shut down Session,

00:51:52.509 --> 00:51:53.070
for example.

00:51:54.311 --> 00:51:55.431
There is not a doubt in my mind

00:51:55.452 --> 00:51:56.452
that they can find a way.

00:51:56.913 --> 00:51:58.335
They can start – or at the very

00:51:58.375 --> 00:51:58.514
least,

00:51:58.534 --> 00:51:59.536
they can make it such a pain in

00:51:59.556 --> 00:52:00.566
the ass like –

00:52:01.300 --> 00:52:02.679
I wrote a personal blog post a few

00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:05.460
weeks ago about signing in over Tor and

00:52:06.121 --> 00:52:07.101
when it's a good idea and when it's

00:52:07.121 --> 00:52:07.360
not.

00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:09.902
And I mentioned that websites that block

00:52:10.161 --> 00:52:12.521
Tor, known Tor exit nodes,

00:52:14.521 --> 00:52:16.262
like banks and stuff like that,

00:52:16.322 --> 00:52:17.163
doctor's offices,

00:52:17.742 --> 00:52:19.023
there's not really a point in doing that

00:52:19.063 --> 00:52:20.842
because most of them are already, again,

00:52:20.862 --> 00:52:21.844
they're banks, they're doctors,

00:52:21.864 --> 00:52:22.563
they know who you are.

00:52:22.884 --> 00:52:24.204
But on top of it, yeah, sure,

00:52:24.224 --> 00:52:26.563
you could sit there and refresh Tor five

00:52:26.603 --> 00:52:28.224
hundred times until you get an exit node

00:52:28.244 --> 00:52:29.025
that's not blocked.

00:52:29.545 --> 00:52:31.184
But me personally, after a while,

00:52:31.224 --> 00:52:32.186
it just becomes such a pain in the

00:52:32.266 --> 00:52:32.385
ass.

00:52:32.405 --> 00:52:34.286
It's like, I don't even care anymore.

00:52:34.365 --> 00:52:35.266
I'm just going to do it with Brave

00:52:35.286 --> 00:52:36.847
or Moldat or something with a VPN.

00:52:36.887 --> 00:52:38.626
And so, I mean,

00:52:38.646 --> 00:52:40.246
that's kind of the thing is like, yeah,

00:52:40.266 --> 00:52:41.788
they may not be able to block a

00:52:41.847 --> 00:52:43.248
hundred percent of the session nodes,

00:52:43.288 --> 00:52:44.648
but maybe they can block enough of them

00:52:44.668 --> 00:52:45.949
that it's effectively useless.

00:52:45.989 --> 00:52:48.228
And my point being is just, it's all,

00:52:48.329 --> 00:52:49.228
it's everything matters.

00:52:49.289 --> 00:52:50.510
It's like the technology matters.

00:52:50.550 --> 00:52:51.369
The encryption matters.

00:52:51.849 --> 00:52:54.092
The like taking away their ability to

00:52:54.271 --> 00:52:55.952
recover the data or spy on the data,

00:52:56.273 --> 00:52:57.893
but also the politics and having good

00:52:57.954 --> 00:52:59.835
privacy laws and voting in politicians who

00:52:59.875 --> 00:53:02.235
are not completely insane and understand

00:53:02.255 --> 00:53:03.277
how technology works.

00:53:03.317 --> 00:53:07.199
And yeah, it's just not great.

00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:08.019
Not great.

00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:08.980
Not a fan of this.

00:53:09.561 --> 00:53:09.721
So.

00:53:10.248 --> 00:53:12.228
I also think this is another thing that,

00:53:12.509 --> 00:53:12.789
you know,

00:53:12.909 --> 00:53:15.530
this is a platform that supports

00:53:15.550 --> 00:53:16.751
grassroots activism.

00:53:17.190 --> 00:53:18.692
This is like one of these things that

00:53:18.711 --> 00:53:20.393
we really harp on to people,

00:53:20.432 --> 00:53:22.054
like grassroots activism is really

00:53:22.094 --> 00:53:22.474
important,

00:53:22.534 --> 00:53:26.715
like getting your city council to get

00:53:26.755 --> 00:53:29.056
these flop cameras down, to get, you know,

00:53:29.137 --> 00:53:32.358
all these laws pushed through, right?

00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:33.780
It's important stuff that

00:53:34.905 --> 00:53:37.447
uh, that these organizations are doing.

00:53:37.586 --> 00:53:38.947
Um, I'm sure, you know,

00:53:38.987 --> 00:53:40.929
we don't agree with everything that this,

00:53:41.429 --> 00:53:44.309
uh, organization has, you know,

00:53:44.630 --> 00:53:45.570
hosted on their platform.

00:53:45.610 --> 00:53:47.492
I'm sure the people that host, um,

00:53:47.632 --> 00:53:49.331
Autistic Inventati don't agree with

00:53:49.873 --> 00:53:51.532
everything that everyone posts on their

00:53:51.552 --> 00:53:52.032
platform,

00:53:52.074 --> 00:53:54.193
but that's like not really that relevant.

00:53:54.313 --> 00:53:55.914
I think it's,

00:53:55.954 --> 00:53:57.155
it's just a platform for people to

00:53:57.235 --> 00:53:57.635
organize

00:53:58.219 --> 00:53:59.219
grassroots campaigns.

00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:01.360
And I just think that's really important,

00:54:01.780 --> 00:54:03.621
but also there's other organizations that

00:54:03.641 --> 00:54:06.463
do a very similar thing to, um,

00:54:06.503 --> 00:54:07.182
to order Stacey,

00:54:07.202 --> 00:54:10.123
like rise up.net is another one that does

00:54:10.224 --> 00:54:10.844
a similar thing.

00:54:10.923 --> 00:54:12.244
And that's a U S based one.

00:54:12.824 --> 00:54:14.565
And I think this also pushes us towards

00:54:14.606 --> 00:54:17.086
this idea of, you know, I know,

00:54:17.206 --> 00:54:17.967
I don't want to bring it up,

00:54:17.987 --> 00:54:19.447
but like slippery slope,

00:54:19.487 --> 00:54:20.947
like if this is the first,

00:54:21.027 --> 00:54:22.528
if this is the first platform that gets

00:54:22.568 --> 00:54:23.688
taken down, um,

00:54:24.168 --> 00:54:25.009
what could be next?

00:54:25.269 --> 00:54:27.090
What could be the next platform that gets

00:54:27.110 --> 00:54:27.590
taken down?

00:54:28.710 --> 00:54:32.532
And I think anyone that's super familiar

00:54:32.552 --> 00:54:35.253
with the United States sanctions will know

00:54:35.293 --> 00:54:37.134
that it is very brutal.

00:54:37.153 --> 00:54:39.275
It basically can destroy an entire

00:54:39.315 --> 00:54:39.675
country.

00:54:39.715 --> 00:54:41.715
It can destroy an entire project.

00:54:41.795 --> 00:54:41.976
So

00:54:43.969 --> 00:54:45.809
I think it's definitely not great,

00:54:45.969 --> 00:54:48.271
but it seems like Autist DC is still

00:54:48.311 --> 00:54:48.771
surviving.

00:54:49.331 --> 00:54:50.773
Their main domain got taken down,

00:54:50.833 --> 00:54:52.474
but all their other domains are still up.

00:54:52.594 --> 00:54:53.594
So yeah,

00:54:53.614 --> 00:54:55.135
you can still visit their website and

00:54:55.195 --> 00:54:57.657
everything seems to be rolling along

00:54:57.697 --> 00:54:59.018
pretty well still for them.

00:54:59.197 --> 00:55:02.360
So it'll be interesting to see what

00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:03.501
happens on September,

00:55:03.581 --> 00:55:06.523
which is when it's the deadline for

00:55:06.563 --> 00:55:07.684
basically all U.S.

00:55:09.132 --> 00:55:12.034
entities to basically drop any sort of

00:55:12.193 --> 00:55:15.333
support for the organization.

00:55:15.474 --> 00:55:17.994
So it'll be interesting to see what

00:55:18.034 --> 00:55:21.014
happens by September, September,

00:55:21.695 --> 00:55:24.536
and EDR is calling upon basically a bunch

00:55:24.576 --> 00:55:27.235
of organizations to reverse that course on

00:55:27.255 --> 00:55:27.456
this.

00:55:27.496 --> 00:55:28.835
They're saying the United States

00:55:28.856 --> 00:55:30.396
government needs to reverse its decision.

00:55:30.916 --> 00:55:33.757
The EU needs to actually make a move

00:55:33.777 --> 00:55:34.197
on this.

00:55:34.536 --> 00:55:36.757
The government of Italy needs to publicly

00:55:36.797 --> 00:55:37.157
defend

00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:39.759
Autistici.

00:55:40.219 --> 00:55:41.481
Financial institutions,

00:55:41.561 --> 00:55:43.322
internet registrars and infrastructure

00:55:43.362 --> 00:55:46.284
providers need to refuse to act on third

00:55:47.085 --> 00:55:49.527
country designations that have no force in

00:55:49.606 --> 00:55:50.307
European law.

00:55:50.708 --> 00:55:52.489
Yielding to financial pressure when no

00:55:52.590 --> 00:55:54.972
legal obligation exists is a choice and

00:55:54.992 --> 00:55:55.692
not a necessity.

00:55:56.233 --> 00:55:59.235
And also digital social justice and other

00:55:59.434 --> 00:56:01.217
civil society organizations and

00:56:01.277 --> 00:56:03.418
collectives need to stand in full

00:56:03.978 --> 00:56:06.101
solidarity with Autistici Inventati.

00:56:06.780 --> 00:56:07.581
And yeah,

00:56:08.193 --> 00:56:09.795
acknowledge the key role that safe and

00:56:09.835 --> 00:56:11.177
secure decentralized digital

00:56:11.217 --> 00:56:13.539
infrastructure plays in our collective

00:56:13.619 --> 00:56:16.780
strive for justice.

00:56:17.121 --> 00:56:21.164
So yeah, this is really worrisome.

00:56:21.364 --> 00:56:22.485
There's already been a lot of

00:56:22.766 --> 00:56:24.268
organizations that have already signed on

00:56:24.307 --> 00:56:26.710
to the EVRI's statement.

00:56:26.829 --> 00:56:29.152
Lots of important organizations have

00:56:29.192 --> 00:56:30.032
already signed on.

00:56:30.193 --> 00:56:32.974
So it's really important that we do stand

00:56:33.014 --> 00:56:34.916
for free speech and

00:56:36.027 --> 00:56:43.590
against this unjust restriction of an

00:56:44.230 --> 00:56:46.610
internet service provider.

00:56:46.650 --> 00:56:49.072
So yeah, it really sucks.

00:56:51.112 --> 00:56:53.472
I think it just shows the vast reach

00:56:53.492 --> 00:56:55.994
that the United States has over the

00:56:56.054 --> 00:56:56.934
internet in general,

00:56:57.114 --> 00:57:01.056
and it's definitely a scary time for the

00:57:01.096 --> 00:57:01.476
internet.

00:57:05.393 --> 00:57:06.574
Yeah,

00:57:06.594 --> 00:57:07.755
I don't have anything to add to that

00:57:07.775 --> 00:57:09.496
that you didn't already say very well.

00:57:09.737 --> 00:57:11.798
So let's take a couple of questions.

00:57:12.139 --> 00:57:13.420
This one came in right before we went

00:57:13.460 --> 00:57:16.704
to site updates, but Hair Elite says,

00:57:16.824 --> 00:57:18.786
any thoughts on the minimal phone two now

00:57:18.905 --> 00:57:21.068
offering an OEM de-Googled ROM option?

00:57:21.168 --> 00:57:21.869
It's not graphene,

00:57:21.909 --> 00:57:23.210
but it's a step in the right direction.

00:57:24.911 --> 00:57:27.074
I don't know much about the minimal phone.

00:57:27.835 --> 00:57:29.137
I actually looked it up just now.

00:57:30.592 --> 00:57:31.713
I guess I will say me personally,

00:57:31.753 --> 00:57:33.255
I like the ethos, you know, distractions,

00:57:33.655 --> 00:57:34.516
free smartphone.

00:57:35.096 --> 00:57:35.577
Oh, wait a minute.

00:57:35.617 --> 00:57:36.617
No, I'm looking at the pictures now.

00:57:36.637 --> 00:57:37.898
And I think I have seen this thing

00:57:37.918 --> 00:57:38.179
before.

00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:40.420
I don't know.

00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:41.340
I don't think it would be right for

00:57:41.380 --> 00:57:41.601
me,

00:57:41.621 --> 00:57:42.961
but I think it's a pretty cool idea.

00:57:43.161 --> 00:57:46.143
I don't really have any thoughts on the

00:57:46.264 --> 00:57:47.826
OS itself because I don't know much about

00:57:47.865 --> 00:57:47.985
it.

00:57:48.666 --> 00:57:50.867
Are you more familiar with this, Jordan?

00:57:52.708 --> 00:57:54.110
It does look like it's based on the

00:57:54.230 --> 00:57:57.552
MPO two phone model,

00:57:57.612 --> 00:57:59.074
which I believe is like a

00:58:01.518 --> 00:58:04.740
It's a design that other devices also use,

00:58:04.780 --> 00:58:05.360
it looks like.

00:58:06.041 --> 00:58:07.262
I'm not entirely sure.

00:58:07.422 --> 00:58:07.601
Yeah,

00:58:07.621 --> 00:58:09.822
it's not really something that I've looked

00:58:09.862 --> 00:58:11.543
into too deeply.

00:58:12.244 --> 00:58:13.445
I think it definitely looks interesting.

00:58:13.565 --> 00:58:15.226
I kind of like these small form factor

00:58:15.246 --> 00:58:15.766
devices.

00:58:17.306 --> 00:58:18.746
It kind of sucks no one's really making

00:58:18.786 --> 00:58:19.268
any of these.

00:58:20.068 --> 00:58:22.909
I mean, it looks interesting,

00:58:22.969 --> 00:58:24.269
but I guess we don't really know too

00:58:24.309 --> 00:58:24.449
much.

00:58:24.650 --> 00:58:25.911
It looks like it might still be...

00:58:27.349 --> 00:58:28.268
Is it available right now?

00:58:28.349 --> 00:58:30.449
I'm not sure, but it looks cool.

00:58:30.731 --> 00:58:33.251
I think I would be interested in trying

00:58:33.271 --> 00:58:35.733
it out, but it's like, yeah,

00:58:35.793 --> 00:58:37.193
it's definitely a more niche product,

00:58:37.253 --> 00:58:38.233
I think.

00:58:38.253 --> 00:58:38.974
Should be available.

00:58:38.994 --> 00:58:40.114
I'm looking on the page here and I

00:58:40.155 --> 00:58:41.135
see a buy now button.

00:58:41.175 --> 00:58:43.637
It says expected to ship in ten business

00:58:43.657 --> 00:58:45.056
days, free worldwide shipping.

00:58:46.378 --> 00:58:47.938
Looks like their Kickstarter campaign has

00:58:47.978 --> 00:58:48.998
got four days left.

00:58:49.139 --> 00:58:49.900
So, yeah,

00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.661
it looks like it might be coming soon.

00:58:55.128 --> 00:58:55.728
That's interesting.

00:58:56.047 --> 00:58:56.648
No, it's interesting.

00:58:56.668 --> 00:58:57.588
I don't know.

00:58:57.608 --> 00:58:58.690
I don't really have too much to add.

00:58:59.309 --> 00:59:00.190
We would have to, like,

00:59:00.789 --> 00:59:02.090
there's so many things that we have to

00:59:02.130 --> 00:59:02.510
review.

00:59:02.710 --> 00:59:02.871
Like,

00:59:02.931 --> 00:59:04.731
we're reviewing so many different products

00:59:04.771 --> 00:59:05.192
at the moment.

00:59:05.231 --> 00:59:05.371
Like,

00:59:05.472 --> 00:59:07.313
I know there's security keys and there's

00:59:07.333 --> 00:59:09.434
hardware wallets and there's all sorts of

00:59:09.454 --> 00:59:09.813
stuff.

00:59:09.914 --> 00:59:11.074
And it's, like, another phone.

00:59:11.094 --> 00:59:12.295
Like, yeah, it's tricky.

00:59:12.635 --> 00:59:14.036
I know Jonah does a lot of that.

00:59:14.076 --> 00:59:15.516
So maybe Jonah...

00:59:15.876 --> 00:59:17.257
Might have an opinion on this device,

00:59:17.338 --> 00:59:19.418
but he is not here this week.

00:59:19.458 --> 00:59:21.739
So, yeah,

00:59:21.759 --> 00:59:22.699
if you do want to get his opinion,

00:59:22.739 --> 00:59:24.920
maybe ask next week when he's around or

00:59:24.940 --> 00:59:25.579
the week after.

00:59:27.001 --> 00:59:27.141
Yeah,

00:59:27.161 --> 00:59:29.802
that's kind of all I have on that

00:59:29.902 --> 00:59:30.001
one.

00:59:30.041 --> 00:59:31.882
But Lulu Cuckoo says...

00:59:34.782 --> 00:59:35.762
I just want to say thank you so

00:59:35.802 --> 00:59:36.623
much for all your work.

00:59:36.784 --> 00:59:38.344
You guys are really doing necessary work

00:59:38.403 --> 00:59:39.965
letting and helping the average Joe like

00:59:39.985 --> 00:59:42.485
myself know of genuine and true dangers.

00:59:42.684 --> 00:59:43.385
You're awesome.

00:59:43.945 --> 00:59:45.346
Thank you so much for like such a

00:59:45.405 --> 00:59:45.865
sweet comment.

00:59:45.905 --> 00:59:47.067
That is, that is really nice.

00:59:47.106 --> 00:59:47.266
Yeah.

00:59:47.306 --> 00:59:49.306
I hope we, we can provide some,

00:59:49.527 --> 00:59:52.068
some good information and yeah, it's,

00:59:52.887 --> 00:59:53.327
it's awesome.

00:59:53.427 --> 00:59:54.329
I love doing this work.

00:59:54.369 --> 00:59:56.108
It's really, it's really rewarding stuff.

00:59:56.148 --> 00:59:58.789
So I'm sure Nate feels the same way.

01:00:00.204 --> 01:00:00.784
I do, yeah.

01:00:00.824 --> 01:00:01.425
Thank you so much.

01:00:01.485 --> 01:00:05.809
The human brain is wired to remember

01:00:05.909 --> 01:00:07.590
negative stuff more than positive stuff,

01:00:08.269 --> 01:00:10.492
which is an evolutionary advantage.

01:00:10.512 --> 01:00:13.034
If you walk through the forest a thousand

01:00:13.094 --> 01:00:14.614
times and nothing bad happens,

01:00:14.675 --> 01:00:15.494
then that's fine.

01:00:15.534 --> 01:00:16.996
If you walk through it once and a

01:00:17.096 --> 01:00:18.036
tiger almost kills you,

01:00:18.097 --> 01:00:18.876
you need to remember that.

01:00:20.157 --> 01:00:20.798
But unfortunately,

01:00:20.838 --> 01:00:22.539
in this modern digital age where we're

01:00:22.659 --> 01:00:23.059
online,

01:00:23.701 --> 01:00:25.181
it just means that one person leaves a

01:00:25.202 --> 01:00:26.141
bad YouTube comment.

01:00:26.181 --> 01:00:27.503
It's just like all your brain thinks

01:00:27.543 --> 01:00:27.842
about.

01:00:28.804 --> 01:00:29.485
It is nice to get the

01:00:32.126 --> 01:00:33.146
The nice comments like that,

01:00:33.525 --> 01:00:34.865
my brain is blanking on words right now,

01:00:34.905 --> 01:00:36.447
but it is helpful.

01:00:36.606 --> 01:00:38.427
It's very motivating and it is appreciated

01:00:38.447 --> 01:00:39.407
to get that kind of stuff every now

01:00:39.427 --> 01:00:39.628
and then.

01:00:39.648 --> 01:00:42.329
So thank you.

01:00:42.349 --> 01:00:42.728
Real quick,

01:00:42.748 --> 01:00:44.688
Skin Compile talking about the Italy

01:00:44.728 --> 01:00:45.048
story.

01:00:45.108 --> 01:00:45.329
He said,

01:00:45.369 --> 01:00:46.650
this is another reason why I have nothing

01:00:46.670 --> 01:00:47.570
to hide is invalid.

01:00:47.710 --> 01:00:47.949
Yeah,

01:00:48.050 --> 01:00:49.731
it's nothing to hide is a very

01:00:49.891 --> 01:00:51.710
self-centered argument for sure.

01:00:51.951 --> 01:00:53.391
And usually not true, but...

01:00:55.005 --> 01:00:55.525
On that note,

01:00:57.126 --> 01:00:58.367
speaking of having nothing to hide,

01:00:58.387 --> 01:01:00.608
we're going to talk about California's age

01:01:00.648 --> 01:01:02.969
verification bill that has passed with a

01:01:03.190 --> 01:01:04.610
Linux exemption.

01:01:05.411 --> 01:01:07.532
So a lot of you guys,

01:01:07.592 --> 01:01:08.753
I think you've heard of this.

01:01:08.793 --> 01:01:10.253
This is kind of an update, really.

01:01:11.414 --> 01:01:14.195
So California proposed this law that would

01:01:14.235 --> 01:01:17.797
require age verification to be done at the

01:01:17.958 --> 01:01:18.998
operating system level.

01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:20.719
So...

01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:24.579
I don't really know how to explain this.

01:01:24.619 --> 01:01:26.740
Basically like when you set up windows or

01:01:26.780 --> 01:01:29.882
Mac or at the time, even Linux, uh,

01:01:29.902 --> 01:01:30.161
you know,

01:01:30.262 --> 01:01:31.802
it would ask for your birthday or

01:01:31.842 --> 01:01:32.222
whatever.

01:01:32.463 --> 01:01:34.143
And, um,

01:01:34.384 --> 01:01:36.764
I will say I have not read the

01:01:36.784 --> 01:01:38.326
bill itself, so I don't know.

01:01:38.766 --> 01:01:40.806
Um, yeah.

01:01:40.947 --> 01:01:40.987
Uh,

01:01:41.007 --> 01:01:42.286
when an operating system runs on a device

01:01:42.306 --> 01:01:43.568
and includes an account setup feature,

01:01:43.608 --> 01:01:45.608
it must offer an interface that asks for

01:01:45.628 --> 01:01:47.088
the account holder for the date of birth

01:01:47.228 --> 01:01:49.050
age or both of the devices,

01:01:49.090 --> 01:01:50.811
primary user during account setup.

01:01:51.610 --> 01:01:51.811
Um,

01:01:53.873 --> 01:01:55.596
I will say from my reading of this

01:01:55.655 --> 01:01:55.856
again,

01:01:55.896 --> 01:01:57.038
I haven't read the bill itself or the

01:01:57.077 --> 01:01:57.757
text of the bill.

01:01:58.239 --> 01:01:59.820
I don't think they force you to turn

01:01:59.880 --> 01:02:00.442
over ID.

01:02:00.461 --> 01:02:01.382
They just ask you to put in a

01:02:01.402 --> 01:02:02.364
birthday or an age.

01:02:03.184 --> 01:02:03.425
Um,

01:02:04.206 --> 01:02:06.688
and then it's supposed to provide an age

01:02:06.728 --> 01:02:07.009
range.

01:02:07.108 --> 01:02:08.309
One of four under thirteen,

01:02:08.351 --> 01:02:09.130
thirteen through fifteen,

01:02:09.170 --> 01:02:10.632
sixteen through seventeen or eighteen and

01:02:10.753 --> 01:02:11.054
older.

01:02:11.974 --> 01:02:12.135
Um,

01:02:13.739 --> 01:02:14.260
Yeah, I mean,

01:02:14.320 --> 01:02:15.501
we've we've railed against age

01:02:15.521 --> 01:02:16.541
verification so much here.

01:02:16.561 --> 01:02:18.003
I'm not even going to bother getting on

01:02:18.043 --> 01:02:18.623
that soapbox.

01:02:18.684 --> 01:02:21.485
But a little while ago,

01:02:21.525 --> 01:02:23.306
I think it was California or Colorado,

01:02:23.347 --> 01:02:24.588
because that's where Systema Seventy-Six

01:02:24.628 --> 01:02:24.967
is from.

01:02:26.068 --> 01:02:28.230
The team at Systema Seventy-Six went and

01:02:28.250 --> 01:02:30.771
talked to their politicians who were

01:02:30.831 --> 01:02:32.092
considering a very similar bill.

01:02:32.672 --> 01:02:34.875
And basically they pointed out that like

01:02:34.894 --> 01:02:35.876
the way these things are worded.

01:02:36.829 --> 01:02:38.269
you basically described everything as an

01:02:38.309 --> 01:02:39.650
operating system, you know, the,

01:02:39.670 --> 01:02:41.192
the firmware that runs on my fridge or

01:02:41.211 --> 01:02:42.932
my router, um,

01:02:43.233 --> 01:02:44.393
which my fridge shouldn't have firmware,

01:02:44.414 --> 01:02:44.873
but here we are.

01:02:45.454 --> 01:02:47.056
And, uh, they point being,

01:02:47.076 --> 01:02:48.637
they successfully got Colorado.

01:02:48.797 --> 01:02:49.536
I think it was Colorado.

01:02:50.177 --> 01:02:51.619
Cause I know this one was largely modeled

01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:52.159
after Colorado,

01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:53.539
but they successfully got them to

01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:55.280
introduce like an open source exception.

01:02:56.447 --> 01:02:58.248
And it looks like California has now done

01:02:58.268 --> 01:02:58.668
the same thing.

01:02:58.708 --> 01:03:00.010
So this hasn't been signed by the governor

01:03:00.050 --> 01:03:00.750
yet, just to be clear.

01:03:00.809 --> 01:03:02.271
It hasn't technically passed,

01:03:02.311 --> 01:03:04.552
but I do seem to remember him saying

01:03:04.592 --> 01:03:05.271
he was going to sign it.

01:03:05.692 --> 01:03:08.313
So now there is this exemption for Linux.

01:03:08.634 --> 01:03:09.353
Where is it?

01:03:09.434 --> 01:03:10.195
It's a very specific...

01:03:12.831 --> 01:03:13.032
Hold on,

01:03:13.052 --> 01:03:14.012
let me just check the show notes where

01:03:14.032 --> 01:03:14.672
I have it written down.

01:03:15.952 --> 01:03:17.474
The definition of an operating system

01:03:17.494 --> 01:03:19.815
provider explicitly excludes an entity

01:03:19.835 --> 01:03:21.175
that distributes an operating system or

01:03:21.235 --> 01:03:22.976
application under license terms allowing

01:03:23.016 --> 01:03:24.617
recipients to copy, redistribute,

01:03:24.697 --> 01:03:25.697
and modify the software.

01:03:25.797 --> 01:03:28.518
So it says most traditional open source

01:03:28.557 --> 01:03:29.998
operating system, including Linux,

01:03:30.259 --> 01:03:31.159
are outside the scope.

01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:32.820
So Linux does not have to do this

01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:33.400
in California.

01:03:35.447 --> 01:03:36.027
Which is smart,

01:03:36.047 --> 01:03:37.208
because how are you going to enforce that?

01:03:37.248 --> 01:03:39.128
That would be such a nightmare.

01:03:39.188 --> 01:03:40.769
And there's already been several operating

01:03:41.329 --> 01:03:42.650
Linux developers who are just like, yeah,

01:03:42.670 --> 01:03:44.251
I'm not doing that regardless.

01:03:44.331 --> 01:03:47.233
But I will say,

01:03:47.672 --> 01:03:48.833
this is my personal take,

01:03:48.873 --> 01:03:52.416
is I do think this is less bad

01:03:52.496 --> 01:03:53.416
than just a blanket,

01:03:53.715 --> 01:03:54.896
like the original version of the bill.

01:03:55.918 --> 01:03:57.557
But I personally still don't really see

01:03:57.577 --> 01:03:58.119
this as a win.

01:03:58.179 --> 01:03:59.358
This is just my personal opinion,

01:03:59.539 --> 01:04:00.000
because...

01:04:01.135 --> 01:04:03.536
first of all it still screws over so

01:04:03.577 --> 01:04:05.498
many people who are using mac and windows

01:04:05.639 --> 01:04:08.101
and you know it if privacy really is

01:04:08.121 --> 01:04:09.181
a human right which i think all of

01:04:09.242 --> 01:04:10.983
us agree with you can't pick and choose

01:04:11.003 --> 01:04:13.505
your human rights like either everybody

01:04:13.545 --> 01:04:15.688
has them or they don't so people on

01:04:15.728 --> 01:04:18.250
windows deserve privacy even if windows is

01:04:18.269 --> 01:04:19.992
garbage that's microsoft's fault not their

01:04:20.012 --> 01:04:20.231
fault

01:04:20.532 --> 01:04:21.853
People on Mac deserve privacy.

01:04:22.472 --> 01:04:23.753
We shouldn't be gatekeeping privacy.

01:04:23.793 --> 01:04:25.594
So I'm really not a fan of that.

01:04:25.974 --> 01:04:27.675
And then my question is, okay,

01:04:27.737 --> 01:04:29.317
what if logically this pushes everyone to

01:04:29.358 --> 01:04:29.858
go to Linux?

01:04:30.538 --> 01:04:31.699
You think the lawmakers are just going to

01:04:31.719 --> 01:04:33.019
sit back and be like, damn,

01:04:33.039 --> 01:04:33.940
they thwarted us.

01:04:34.181 --> 01:04:35.621
That's not what happened in the UK, right?

01:04:36.001 --> 01:04:36.541
In the UK,

01:04:36.581 --> 01:04:38.043
everybody started using VPNs and the

01:04:38.063 --> 01:04:38.762
lawmakers were like, well,

01:04:38.802 --> 01:04:39.923
now we need to ban VPNs.

01:04:40.304 --> 01:04:42.465
So if Linux becomes so popular,

01:04:42.505 --> 01:04:43.786
they're just going to change the law and

01:04:43.806 --> 01:04:45.266
say, well, now it applies to Linux too.

01:04:45.407 --> 01:04:45.688
So-

01:04:46.288 --> 01:04:48.228
I don't know.

01:04:48.248 --> 01:04:49.409
I think this is definitely better than,

01:04:49.429 --> 01:04:49.650
again,

01:04:49.690 --> 01:04:50.971
the original version where it's just

01:04:51.010 --> 01:04:51.431
blanket.

01:04:51.632 --> 01:04:52.893
Everybody is included,

01:04:52.952 --> 01:04:55.735
but I have my reservations personally that

01:04:55.775 --> 01:04:56.554
I hope I'm wrong about.

01:04:56.655 --> 01:04:59.157
But I don't know if you have any

01:04:59.237 --> 01:05:00.217
thoughts on that story, Jordan.

01:05:00.237 --> 01:05:00.938
It's kind of a quick one.

01:05:00.958 --> 01:05:01.679
Did I miss anything?

01:05:03.260 --> 01:05:04.400
No, I think you covered everything.

01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:04.621
I mean,

01:05:04.641 --> 01:05:06.521
there was like a discussion topic here.

01:05:06.762 --> 01:05:07.643
Is this really a win?

01:05:07.682 --> 01:05:09.545
What if Linux becomes so popular that they

01:05:09.585 --> 01:05:10.885
simply change the law?

01:05:11.405 --> 01:05:11.945
I mean, yeah,

01:05:12.166 --> 01:05:13.586
I think that is also another thing that

01:05:13.626 --> 01:05:13.987
you should...

01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:16.768
kind of think about when these laws pass,

01:05:16.789 --> 01:05:18.617
it's like, now it's not including Linux,

01:05:18.717 --> 01:05:20.043
but like, what if it's?

01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:21.282
It can always change.

01:05:21.442 --> 01:05:22.282
Now that it's passed,

01:05:22.362 --> 01:05:24.103
it's probably a lot easier to change it,

01:05:24.143 --> 01:05:24.382
right?

01:05:24.503 --> 01:05:26.023
Actually, I don't know.

01:05:26.043 --> 01:05:26.724
Would that be the case?

01:05:26.844 --> 01:05:28.065
Maybe not.

01:05:28.085 --> 01:05:30.266
So I think California specifically,

01:05:30.286 --> 01:05:31.807
it's actually really hard to change laws

01:05:31.827 --> 01:05:33.369
because I remember the EFF talking about

01:05:33.449 --> 01:05:35.389
the California Consumer Privacy Act.

01:05:35.769 --> 01:05:39.632
They actually opposed it strictly because

01:05:39.672 --> 01:05:40.072
they were like,

01:05:40.112 --> 01:05:41.413
we don't think this goes far enough.

01:05:41.492 --> 01:05:43.735
And normally in most states, it's like,

01:05:43.775 --> 01:05:45.135
hey, this is better than nothing, right?

01:05:45.155 --> 01:05:46.655
We have to take our incremental wins and

01:05:46.675 --> 01:05:47.536
this is a step forward.

01:05:47.967 --> 01:05:49.067
But in the case of California

01:05:49.086 --> 01:05:49.967
specifically, they were like,

01:05:50.027 --> 01:05:51.168
it is such a pain in the ass

01:05:51.188 --> 01:05:53.009
to change the law here that we would

01:05:53.048 --> 01:05:55.130
rather just not pass this and try again,

01:05:56.250 --> 01:05:57.550
which unfortunately that's not what

01:05:57.570 --> 01:05:57.811
happened.

01:05:57.831 --> 01:05:59.150
Well, double-edged sword,

01:05:59.210 --> 01:05:59.911
that's not what happened.

01:05:59.931 --> 01:06:00.791
But yeah,

01:06:00.811 --> 01:06:02.213
so I guess that's kind of an argument

01:06:02.253 --> 01:06:03.273
against my point is like,

01:06:03.293 --> 01:06:04.753
at least in California, it's like, yeah,

01:06:04.773 --> 01:06:06.153
changing this to include Linux would

01:06:06.193 --> 01:06:07.394
probably be an uphill battle,

01:06:07.474 --> 01:06:10.795
but I don't know.

01:06:10.876 --> 01:06:11.797
I still have reservations.

01:06:11.976 --> 01:06:13.416
Our politicians have proven they can get

01:06:13.456 --> 01:06:14.418
shit done when they want to.

01:06:14.478 --> 01:06:15.398
They just don't usually want to.

01:06:16.925 --> 01:06:18.786
Yeah.

01:06:18.806 --> 01:06:19.668
It's always for the wrong.

01:06:19.748 --> 01:06:21.048
It's always for the wrong things.

01:06:21.088 --> 01:06:23.230
They can get something like a surveillance

01:06:23.329 --> 01:06:25.110
law passed in like one day,

01:06:25.150 --> 01:06:26.751
but then when it comes to like privacy,

01:06:27.152 --> 01:06:28.673
a national privacy law or something,

01:06:28.733 --> 01:06:30.215
it's like they just drag their feet for

01:06:30.295 --> 01:06:30.755
centuries.

01:06:30.815 --> 01:06:32.396
So it is what it is.

01:06:33.797 --> 01:06:35.838
I think you've kind of covered that really

01:06:35.858 --> 01:06:36.157
well.

01:06:36.237 --> 01:06:37.458
So I don't think I have any more

01:06:37.478 --> 01:06:39.420
to add on that.

01:06:39.500 --> 01:06:39.960
Alrighty.

01:06:40.201 --> 01:06:41.282
Well then how about you tell us about

01:06:41.322 --> 01:06:43.443
this new offering from brave here?

01:06:44.884 --> 01:06:45.244
Yes.

01:06:45.344 --> 01:06:49.528
So this is a new feature that's being

01:06:49.588 --> 01:06:52.532
added to Brave browser.

01:06:53.532 --> 01:06:56.175
Brave launches email aliases to keep your

01:06:56.295 --> 01:06:58.697
personal email address private from

01:06:58.898 --> 01:06:59.438
websites.

01:06:59.458 --> 01:07:01.280
This was published on August,

01:07:07.509 --> 01:07:09.371
integration with the browser itself.

01:07:09.391 --> 01:07:10.853
Just to make that clear from the very

01:07:10.893 --> 01:07:11.193
start,

01:07:11.253 --> 01:07:13.096
starting with today's desktop version,

01:07:13.235 --> 01:07:14.317
one point nine point four.

01:07:14.456 --> 01:07:16.539
So this is released and available now.

01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:18.802
The Brave browser is offering email

01:07:18.882 --> 01:07:21.304
aliases to allow you to sign up for

01:07:21.364 --> 01:07:23.387
online services without revealing your

01:07:23.467 --> 01:07:24.989
personal email address.

01:07:26.371 --> 01:07:28.813
Email aliases are integrated into Brave,

01:07:28.833 --> 01:07:30.896
which means you can generate privacy

01:07:30.956 --> 01:07:33.237
protecting email addresses right from a

01:07:33.277 --> 01:07:34.679
website's signup form.

01:07:35.179 --> 01:07:37.382
These aliases then forward to your real

01:07:37.581 --> 01:07:38.963
primary email address.

01:07:39.344 --> 01:07:40.965
This remains hidden from websites,

01:07:41.025 --> 01:07:43.447
thus breaking the cross-website tracking

01:07:43.507 --> 01:07:43.807
link.

01:07:44.208 --> 01:07:46.231
The feature can also prevent spam,

01:07:46.590 --> 01:07:49.032
since you can easily deactivate your email

01:07:49.172 --> 01:07:52.596
alias and create a new one in order

01:07:52.615 --> 01:07:54.358
to create an email alias you'll first need

01:07:54.398 --> 01:07:56.539
to create a brave account with an email

01:07:56.559 --> 01:07:58.762
address and password note that this

01:07:58.862 --> 01:08:00.684
account is separate from your brave

01:08:00.744 --> 01:08:02.885
premium account which premium users use

01:08:02.905 --> 01:08:05.347
for managing subscriptions to some of

01:08:05.447 --> 01:08:07.489
brave services such as the brave vpn

01:08:08.182 --> 01:08:09.844
And they also have a blog post with

01:08:09.885 --> 01:08:11.547
more information on the privacy of these

01:08:11.567 --> 01:08:13.248
accounts as well.

01:08:13.630 --> 01:08:15.251
They say emails are scanned for spam and

01:08:15.271 --> 01:08:17.753
viruses but deleted from their servers

01:08:18.135 --> 01:08:21.578
within seconds after forwarding and notes

01:08:21.759 --> 01:08:24.802
on an alias are stored locally on device.

01:08:26.265 --> 01:08:27.726
So in this initial release,

01:08:28.028 --> 01:08:29.969
they are offering everyone the option of

01:08:30.770 --> 01:08:34.313
five free email aliases running a mail

01:08:34.493 --> 01:08:36.555
forwarding service has ongoing costs.

01:08:36.595 --> 01:08:39.537
So they're starting small and they're

01:08:39.557 --> 01:08:42.020
trying to gather some feedback and they

01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:43.962
are also working hard to bring email

01:08:44.021 --> 01:08:45.443
aliases to mobile.

01:08:45.762 --> 01:08:48.125
So it's not available on Brave on mobile

01:08:48.265 --> 01:08:48.666
yet,

01:08:48.826 --> 01:08:50.747
but they plan to offer a premium version

01:08:51.368 --> 01:08:52.769
of the feature in the future.

01:08:53.710 --> 01:08:55.391
So I guess throwing it back to you,

01:08:55.471 --> 01:08:58.935
Nate, what is this?

01:08:59.034 --> 01:08:59.935
This is kind of interesting.

01:08:59.956 --> 01:09:01.877
This is another email releasing service.

01:09:01.917 --> 01:09:03.479
It feels like we've gotten quite a few

01:09:03.519 --> 01:09:04.539
of these at this point.

01:09:05.121 --> 01:09:06.242
What are your thoughts?

01:09:08.037 --> 01:09:08.438
Yeah.

01:09:08.537 --> 01:09:08.858
I think,

01:09:09.418 --> 01:09:11.420
I can't remember who presented this idea

01:09:11.899 --> 01:09:13.400
and put it in my head,

01:09:13.461 --> 01:09:15.502
but I think the promising thing there is,

01:09:15.542 --> 01:09:16.582
you know, yeah, we've seen, I mean,

01:09:16.622 --> 01:09:17.844
obviously things like temp mail and

01:09:17.863 --> 01:09:19.024
gorilla mail have been around for a long

01:09:19.064 --> 01:09:19.243
time,

01:09:19.264 --> 01:09:20.744
but we've got things like simple login,

01:09:20.824 --> 01:09:23.247
Addy.io, Firefox relay,

01:09:23.667 --> 01:09:25.688
AdGuard spinning up their own thing

01:09:26.307 --> 01:09:26.769
recently.

01:09:26.788 --> 01:09:28.389
And I think it shows that there's a

01:09:28.429 --> 01:09:29.289
demand for this stuff,

01:09:29.329 --> 01:09:31.610
which is really interesting.

01:09:31.770 --> 01:09:32.431
I feel like I don't,

01:09:33.347 --> 01:09:34.547
run into a lot of people who are

01:09:34.648 --> 01:09:36.588
using any sort of email aliasing thing,

01:09:36.628 --> 01:09:38.248
not even like the Gmail plus trick,

01:09:38.829 --> 01:09:41.329
but yeah, I mean,

01:09:41.369 --> 01:09:42.270
I guess it's really cool to see.

01:09:42.390 --> 01:09:43.871
I feel like there wouldn't be so many

01:09:43.911 --> 01:09:45.211
companies breaking into this if there

01:09:45.270 --> 01:09:46.511
wasn't a demand for it, I think.

01:09:46.631 --> 01:09:48.231
So I guess that is kind of cool

01:09:48.271 --> 01:09:49.252
to see that people are trying to do

01:09:49.271 --> 01:09:49.351
that.

01:09:49.372 --> 01:09:50.752
Cause I feel like email aliasing is a

01:09:50.792 --> 01:09:51.012
very,

01:09:52.099 --> 01:09:53.460
A very underrated technique.

01:09:53.500 --> 01:09:55.640
It's super useful for managing spam and

01:09:55.680 --> 01:09:57.862
helping to break up your profile online.

01:09:57.903 --> 01:10:01.404
I guess it's really cool to see that

01:10:01.545 --> 01:10:02.664
growing, personally.

01:10:06.408 --> 01:10:06.667
Yeah,

01:10:06.728 --> 01:10:09.288
I think it's definitely interesting to see

01:10:09.810 --> 01:10:11.610
Brave moving more into these...

01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:18.001
We're going to go back to Mozilla again.

01:10:18.301 --> 01:10:19.560
All roads lead back to Mozilla.

01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:22.362
But every time we see all these browser

01:10:22.402 --> 01:10:22.801
companies,

01:10:22.841 --> 01:10:24.442
like Mozilla has been trying to do this

01:10:24.481 --> 01:10:25.082
similar as well.

01:10:25.103 --> 01:10:26.722
They've got their own email aliasing

01:10:26.823 --> 01:10:27.182
service.

01:10:27.203 --> 01:10:28.222
They've got their own VPN.

01:10:28.643 --> 01:10:29.884
Brave is doing a similar thing.

01:10:29.944 --> 01:10:30.724
It's like, you know,

01:10:31.304 --> 01:10:34.164
I think it's good to see alternatives to

01:10:35.005 --> 01:10:36.305
services that we do recommend.

01:10:36.364 --> 01:10:38.765
But I think a lot of times these

01:10:38.786 --> 01:10:41.246
services that these browser companies

01:10:41.305 --> 01:10:41.525
make,

01:10:41.565 --> 01:10:43.646
they're not really on par with

01:10:44.497 --> 01:10:47.337
um, the dedicated services such as like,

01:10:47.618 --> 01:10:49.019
like Nate mentioned, like Addy,

01:10:49.139 --> 01:10:50.238
like simple login,

01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:51.739
like proton pass and stuff.

01:10:52.279 --> 01:10:56.141
So I think it's, it's always good.

01:10:56.341 --> 01:10:57.622
Um, I guess we could kind of cover,

01:10:57.662 --> 01:11:00.582
we do recommend some email aliasing

01:11:00.622 --> 01:11:01.064
services.

01:11:01.083 --> 01:11:04.125
We do recommend Addy.io and we do

01:11:04.185 --> 01:11:07.265
recommend simple login as well.

01:11:07.485 --> 01:11:08.867
So I think that's,

01:11:09.827 --> 01:11:11.006
Basically the two that we do.

01:11:11.067 --> 01:11:12.368
Yeah, that's the two we recommend.

01:11:12.467 --> 01:11:13.547
So yeah,

01:11:13.747 --> 01:11:15.309
it's going to be interesting to see how

01:11:15.368 --> 01:11:16.269
this goes.

01:11:16.328 --> 01:11:18.390
I think one limiting factor of this that

01:11:18.430 --> 01:11:20.331
we mentioned at the start of this article

01:11:20.371 --> 01:11:24.271
was this is limited to the Brave browser.

01:11:25.051 --> 01:11:27.073
So that's where these other,

01:11:27.432 --> 01:11:29.932
these other platforms are more agnostic.

01:11:30.132 --> 01:11:32.913
And I think Brave kind of has a,

01:11:33.875 --> 01:11:35.215
it would be pretty weird if they're like,

01:11:35.335 --> 01:11:36.135
it's an extension,

01:11:36.175 --> 01:11:37.416
you can add it to any browser.

01:11:37.695 --> 01:11:38.235
It just,

01:11:38.275 --> 01:11:39.676
it just wouldn't really make that much

01:11:39.716 --> 01:11:42.136
sense because they have, they have a,

01:11:43.356 --> 01:11:44.677
a need for you to keep using their

01:11:44.698 --> 01:11:46.057
browser because they want to, you know,

01:11:46.903 --> 01:11:48.484
They want you to keep using their browser

01:11:48.545 --> 01:11:49.845
instead of other people's browsers.

01:11:49.886 --> 01:11:52.189
So it kind of makes sense why they

01:11:52.208 --> 01:11:53.569
would limit it in such a way.

01:11:53.970 --> 01:11:55.972
Um, whereas as far as I know,

01:11:56.472 --> 01:11:58.095
Mozilla has made it a little bit more

01:11:58.135 --> 01:11:59.155
platform agnostic.

01:11:59.195 --> 01:12:01.037
So it'll be interesting to see if maybe

01:12:01.078 --> 01:12:02.579
they add like a webpage where you can

01:12:02.619 --> 01:12:04.201
manage this instead as well.

01:12:04.400 --> 01:12:07.043
Cause I think that would be a good

01:12:07.243 --> 01:12:08.826
middle ground option for people.

01:12:09.287 --> 01:12:09.407
Um,

01:12:11.246 --> 01:12:12.567
So that's also,

01:12:12.867 --> 01:12:13.646
I don't know if you saw,

01:12:13.667 --> 01:12:15.887
but there was possibly some limitations on

01:12:15.927 --> 01:12:16.488
this as well.

01:12:16.568 --> 01:12:17.828
So do you wanna maybe talk about that?

01:12:19.048 --> 01:12:20.208
So I didn't see,

01:12:20.328 --> 01:12:22.789
it's more just in my personal

01:12:22.810 --> 01:12:25.490
investigations with a lot of these

01:12:25.610 --> 01:12:26.551
aliasing services,

01:12:26.671 --> 01:12:28.271
even the well-established ones is like,

01:12:28.771 --> 01:12:30.052
you have to really dig into like,

01:12:30.092 --> 01:12:32.474
what do you need out of an aliasing

01:12:32.514 --> 01:12:33.774
service and what does it offer?

01:12:33.894 --> 01:12:35.255
Like a lot of the,

01:12:36.034 --> 01:12:37.914
like SimpleLogin and Addy.io are

01:12:38.034 --> 01:12:39.256
definitely the best two right now.

01:12:39.756 --> 01:12:42.859
I want to say IVPN's MailX or whatever

01:12:42.878 --> 01:12:43.238
they call.

01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:45.381
I think it also has all the features.

01:12:45.841 --> 01:12:47.042
But a lot of the newer ones like

01:12:47.381 --> 01:12:49.144
AdGuard, Firefox Relay,

01:12:49.564 --> 01:12:50.965
a lot of them have limitations like you

01:12:51.005 --> 01:12:52.266
can't initiate an email.

01:12:52.327 --> 01:12:55.970
So if you have to say you want

01:12:55.989 --> 01:12:57.211
to reach out to a new doctor's office

01:12:57.230 --> 01:12:58.891
or whatever and you want to ask if

01:12:58.912 --> 01:13:01.453
they have any openings for new patients,

01:13:02.175 --> 01:13:05.417
you can't email them from a forwarding

01:13:05.436 --> 01:13:05.818
address

01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:08.399
they have to email you first and then

01:13:08.420 --> 01:13:09.240
you can reply to it.

01:13:09.320 --> 01:13:11.121
Or I know, I think,

01:13:11.381 --> 01:13:12.201
I think they got rid of it on

01:13:12.521 --> 01:13:13.341
the paid plan,

01:13:13.402 --> 01:13:14.902
but I think one of the cheaper Addy

01:13:14.942 --> 01:13:16.662
plans has like a bandwidth limit.

01:13:18.002 --> 01:13:19.063
A lot of them have like a daily

01:13:19.103 --> 01:13:22.583
send and receive limit that at very least

01:13:22.644 --> 01:13:24.345
on the paid plans is like so high.

01:13:24.364 --> 01:13:25.305
You're probably never going to hit it.

01:13:25.345 --> 01:13:26.465
But for a lot of the free plans,

01:13:26.505 --> 01:13:26.886
it's like, Oh,

01:13:26.905 --> 01:13:28.605
you can only send like five emails a

01:13:28.645 --> 01:13:29.405
day or something.

01:13:29.445 --> 01:13:31.667
So just if you are interested in this,

01:13:31.686 --> 01:13:33.567
just definitely try to do your research

01:13:33.587 --> 01:13:34.807
and try to get that information.

01:13:34.908 --> 01:13:35.307
Yeah.

01:13:35.967 --> 01:13:36.368
Unfortunately,

01:13:36.387 --> 01:13:38.149
I did not see it listed here in

01:13:38.208 --> 01:13:40.389
this menu or this blog post,

01:13:40.448 --> 01:13:42.590
but just things to keep in mind.

01:13:42.770 --> 01:13:44.291
But yeah,

01:13:44.331 --> 01:13:46.390
that's one of my few complaints with Brave

01:13:46.430 --> 01:13:47.912
as far as technical stuff goes is they

01:13:47.952 --> 01:13:48.952
have really cool products,

01:13:49.372 --> 01:13:50.932
but so many of them require you to

01:13:51.172 --> 01:13:51.653
use Brave.

01:13:51.693 --> 01:13:53.092
Like Leo is Brave only.

01:13:53.993 --> 01:13:55.113
Now this is Brave only.

01:13:55.234 --> 01:13:56.635
I think there's something else I'm

01:13:56.675 --> 01:13:57.914
forgetting that I think is kind of neat,

01:13:57.975 --> 01:13:58.854
but is Brave only.

01:13:58.935 --> 01:14:01.256
So it is a bummer that it's not

01:14:01.315 --> 01:14:03.697
more cross-platform, but like you said,

01:14:03.756 --> 01:14:04.256
it makes sense.

01:14:05.927 --> 01:14:07.708
Yeah, I think it'll be interesting.

01:14:07.769 --> 01:14:09.690
And we're keeping an eye on these new

01:14:09.730 --> 01:14:11.372
services that do come out as well.

01:14:11.832 --> 01:14:13.393
There was discussion on the forum as well.

01:14:13.453 --> 01:14:15.314
So if you want to weigh in,

01:14:15.333 --> 01:14:16.555
maybe let us know a little bit more

01:14:16.574 --> 01:14:18.777
about the service because we have limited

01:14:18.817 --> 01:14:19.157
time.

01:14:19.737 --> 01:14:22.078
We don't have time to be covering every

01:14:22.118 --> 01:14:25.501
single product and trying to work out the

01:14:26.261 --> 01:14:27.261
limitations and such.

01:14:27.341 --> 01:14:28.042
But I think

01:14:28.734 --> 01:14:30.036
It'll be interesting to see where this

01:14:30.076 --> 01:14:30.457
goes,

01:14:30.697 --> 01:14:32.097
considering they're only rolling this out

01:14:32.118 --> 01:14:33.359
as a free thing for now.

01:14:33.559 --> 01:14:34.359
But yeah,

01:14:34.619 --> 01:14:37.221
definitely interesting story to keep up

01:14:37.242 --> 01:14:41.666
with over the next couple of months.

01:14:41.706 --> 01:14:42.306
For sure.

01:14:42.806 --> 01:14:43.807
And on that note,

01:14:44.347 --> 01:14:45.850
we talked about Mozilla quite a bit.

01:14:45.890 --> 01:14:48.011
We're actually going to jump over to a

01:14:48.131 --> 01:14:49.193
story from Mozilla.

01:14:49.252 --> 01:14:50.033
Some good news.

01:14:51.614 --> 01:14:54.136
Mozilla is adding ad blocking for Firefox

01:14:54.296 --> 01:14:55.257
on iOS.

01:14:56.239 --> 01:14:58.461
At least I think that's pretty awesome,

01:14:58.600 --> 01:14:59.100
personally.

01:15:01.341 --> 01:15:02.442
Yeah, so I mean,

01:15:02.721 --> 01:15:03.823
it's pretty straightforward.

01:15:04.203 --> 01:15:06.503
This is a brand new feature that is

01:15:06.623 --> 01:15:07.404
opt-in right now.

01:15:07.623 --> 01:15:09.305
I think they said that in the future

01:15:09.345 --> 01:15:11.105
it's going to be... Actually, hold on.

01:15:11.126 --> 01:15:11.805
I have it pulled up here.

01:15:11.845 --> 01:15:12.206
Let me see.

01:15:12.225 --> 01:15:17.108
Yeah, once the rollout is complete...

01:15:18.850 --> 01:15:21.073
There was actually a comment on our forum

01:15:21.113 --> 01:15:22.293
about how this works.

01:15:22.753 --> 01:15:25.256
You have to enable allow remote

01:15:25.296 --> 01:15:28.319
improvements in the Firefox app on iOS to

01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:29.739
get access to this feature.

01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:32.082
Just thought I'd quickly jump in and say

01:15:32.122 --> 01:15:34.503
that it's not going to be available by

01:15:34.543 --> 01:15:36.445
default right now, but it will be.

01:15:36.485 --> 01:15:36.706
Sorry.

01:15:38.277 --> 01:15:38.737
No, you're good.

01:15:38.817 --> 01:15:39.797
I was actually going to mention that.

01:15:40.597 --> 01:15:40.858
But yeah,

01:15:40.877 --> 01:15:42.238
I'm looking at that blog post right now.

01:15:42.298 --> 01:15:43.639
So yeah, it will be...

01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:45.140
They say once the rollout is complete and

01:15:45.159 --> 01:15:46.161
the feature is stabilized,

01:15:46.240 --> 01:15:47.400
it can be enabled by default.

01:15:48.421 --> 01:15:49.962
And yeah, they also claim...

01:15:50.021 --> 01:15:51.542
This is actually somebody from Mozilla

01:15:51.643 --> 01:15:52.684
responding here in the forum,

01:15:52.703 --> 01:15:54.003
which is another reason you also check out

01:15:54.024 --> 01:15:54.444
the forum.

01:15:54.564 --> 01:15:56.305
We get a lot of people who work

01:15:56.324 --> 01:15:57.645
for these projects come and answer

01:15:57.666 --> 01:15:58.565
questions a lot of the time.

01:15:59.127 --> 01:16:00.027
Can't make any promises,

01:16:00.046 --> 01:16:01.027
but it does happen quite a bit.

01:16:01.648 --> 01:16:03.628
And they basically said this whole like...

01:16:04.448 --> 01:16:05.449
it does kind of suck you have to

01:16:05.510 --> 01:16:07.310
allow remote improvements and in order to

01:16:07.331 --> 01:16:09.332
do that according to this user you have

01:16:09.372 --> 01:16:11.113
to turn on like send technical information

01:16:11.974 --> 01:16:13.914
um but they say that this is basically

01:16:14.136 --> 01:16:16.277
only specifically like they're only trying

01:16:16.317 --> 01:16:18.679
to gather information on this particular

01:16:18.719 --> 01:16:20.920
feature is what this person says it's this

01:16:20.939 --> 01:16:22.121
is an ongoing discussion and we're

01:16:22.140 --> 01:16:23.702
actually waiting for the mozilla person to

01:16:23.742 --> 01:16:25.462
respond to additional follow-up questions

01:16:25.502 --> 01:16:27.324
but they basically say like we're just

01:16:27.345 --> 01:16:28.524
trying to get information about this

01:16:28.564 --> 01:16:30.546
feature to make sure it's stable and

01:16:31.006 --> 01:16:32.787
They said we can pause or roll back

01:16:32.828 --> 01:16:34.208
the feature without requiring users to

01:16:34.248 --> 01:16:35.448
install another app update.

01:16:35.970 --> 01:16:37.730
But yeah, beware.

01:16:37.791 --> 01:16:40.532
If you're absolute maximal privacy,

01:16:41.432 --> 01:16:42.552
you may not want to enable this thing

01:16:42.573 --> 01:16:42.733
yet.

01:16:42.752 --> 01:16:44.234
You may want to wait for it.

01:16:44.993 --> 01:16:46.295
A question that I saw when this thing

01:16:46.335 --> 01:16:47.435
first started popping up was,

01:16:47.496 --> 01:16:49.277
why don't they build in an ad blocker

01:16:49.296 --> 01:16:51.278
on Android and desktop?

01:16:51.898 --> 01:16:54.239
So their answer basically is on desktop

01:16:54.260 --> 01:16:54.659
and Android,

01:16:54.699 --> 01:16:56.082
Firefox already supports a strong

01:16:56.181 --> 01:16:57.682
ecosystem of ad blocking and privacy

01:16:57.722 --> 01:16:59.203
extensions, such as uBlock Origin.

01:16:59.703 --> 01:17:00.564
But on iOS,

01:17:00.625 --> 01:17:01.945
extensions are not available in the same

01:17:01.966 --> 01:17:02.246
way,

01:17:02.587 --> 01:17:04.828
and they had to build it directly into

01:17:04.868 --> 01:17:05.328
the browser.

01:17:05.548 --> 01:17:07.911
So that's why, although I do remember...

01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:11.720
I remember a couple months ago,

01:17:11.740 --> 01:17:13.921
we covered a story about how somebody

01:17:13.961 --> 01:17:17.681
spotted some code in Firefox to like,

01:17:17.702 --> 01:17:19.662
there's like an about config where you can

01:17:19.703 --> 01:17:24.884
enable like a beta easy list blocker from

01:17:25.045 --> 01:17:25.805
uBlock origin.

01:17:25.885 --> 01:17:28.324
So there may be a very basic ad

01:17:28.345 --> 01:17:30.305
blocker in future versions of Firefox.

01:17:30.345 --> 01:17:32.506
We're still kind of waiting for that to

01:17:32.527 --> 01:17:33.346
shake out, but.

01:17:35.260 --> 01:17:35.780
Um, real quick,

01:17:35.860 --> 01:17:37.381
y'all shall know here said iOS is not

01:17:37.400 --> 01:17:38.322
a good idea for privacy.

01:17:38.742 --> 01:17:41.403
I mean, yes, we, we recommend graphing OS,

01:17:41.443 --> 01:17:42.903
but there's a lot of reasons somebody

01:17:42.943 --> 01:17:43.783
might be on iOS.

01:17:43.823 --> 01:17:44.764
It might be a work phone.

01:17:44.863 --> 01:17:45.824
It might be, um,

01:17:46.505 --> 01:17:48.005
like I know me personally,

01:17:48.046 --> 01:17:48.945
when I got into privacy,

01:17:49.105 --> 01:17:50.326
I had just bought an iPhone like a

01:17:50.365 --> 01:17:50.907
year before.

01:17:51.006 --> 01:17:51.407
So I'm like, dude,

01:17:51.426 --> 01:17:52.546
I'm not going to throw away a perfectly

01:17:52.567 --> 01:17:53.768
good iPhone just to run out by,

01:17:54.148 --> 01:17:54.828
by an Android.

01:17:55.347 --> 01:17:55.427
Um,

01:17:55.448 --> 01:17:56.828
there's actually places where pixels are

01:17:56.849 --> 01:17:59.810
not for sale that iPhones are, um,

01:17:59.850 --> 01:18:00.570
that may have changed.

01:18:00.591 --> 01:18:00.810
I,

01:18:00.970 --> 01:18:02.730
that I did that research years ago for

01:18:02.751 --> 01:18:04.131
an older video, but, um,

01:18:04.592 --> 01:18:04.733
Yeah,

01:18:04.752 --> 01:18:06.356
we definitely recommend people go to

01:18:06.556 --> 01:18:07.900
Graphene OS wherever possible.

01:18:07.980 --> 01:18:10.206
But again, privacy is a human right.

01:18:10.567 --> 01:18:12.530
People deserve it no matter what operating

01:18:12.551 --> 01:18:13.273
system that they're on.

01:18:15.360 --> 01:18:17.462
And then I think the last thought that

01:18:17.542 --> 01:18:20.623
I had was, Jordan,

01:18:20.644 --> 01:18:21.944
do you think this might change our

01:18:21.984 --> 01:18:23.125
recommendations for,

01:18:24.024 --> 01:18:25.666
because right now we don't recommend,

01:18:26.286 --> 01:18:29.426
we only recommend Brave and a hardened

01:18:29.447 --> 01:18:30.747
version of Safari, basically.

01:18:31.648 --> 01:18:32.787
Do you think this might change our

01:18:32.988 --> 01:18:33.649
recommendations?

01:18:33.729 --> 01:18:36.989
We might add Firefox potentially or?

01:18:38.564 --> 01:18:40.145
I would say no.

01:18:41.006 --> 01:18:42.747
Uh, well, I guess this is my opinion,

01:18:43.268 --> 01:18:44.868
obviously, like, you know, this,

01:18:44.889 --> 01:18:46.770
the privacy guides community is like kind

01:18:46.789 --> 01:18:47.150
of big.

01:18:47.190 --> 01:18:49.131
We all have different opinions on things

01:18:49.292 --> 01:18:53.055
and it's not down to me, Nate, Jonah,

01:18:53.175 --> 01:18:53.595
some,

01:18:53.614 --> 01:18:55.957
some random person dictating whether

01:18:55.976 --> 01:18:58.198
something is going to be added or removed.

01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:00.621
But I think like the, the, the,

01:19:01.822 --> 01:19:05.604
the benefits that Safari gives you versus,

01:19:05.904 --> 01:19:06.145
uh,

01:19:06.703 --> 01:19:11.108
versus like Firefox is greater so the

01:19:11.167 --> 01:19:13.909
issue with iOS is that you can't install

01:19:13.970 --> 01:19:16.292
extensions for third-party browsers and

01:19:16.332 --> 01:19:19.215
you can install extensions for Safari

01:19:19.255 --> 01:19:22.037
which is huh that's a little that's a

01:19:22.056 --> 01:19:23.798
little wacky Apple what's going on there I

01:19:24.319 --> 01:19:27.141
mean well I guess the lawsuits will come

01:19:27.181 --> 01:19:31.564
eventually um but I think it's it's it's

01:19:31.585 --> 01:19:33.207
the issue that we have here right like

01:19:33.747 --> 01:19:36.409
you can install an ad blocking extension

01:19:36.529 --> 01:19:39.252
on Safari that has actually good coverage,

01:19:39.292 --> 01:19:41.134
that actually blocks a lot of stuff.

01:19:41.795 --> 01:19:44.917
And like Nate was saying with this Firefox

01:19:44.997 --> 01:19:47.260
ad blocker, it's really not...

01:19:48.802 --> 01:19:50.844
It's really not that it's not a wide

01:19:50.884 --> 01:19:51.724
spectrum ad blocker.

01:19:51.804 --> 01:19:55.204
It's just a very basic filter list,

01:19:56.265 --> 01:19:57.786
easy list blocking.

01:19:58.765 --> 01:20:00.707
So it's not really going to block all

01:20:00.726 --> 01:20:01.167
that much.

01:20:01.226 --> 01:20:02.167
Whereas, you know,

01:20:02.186 --> 01:20:04.528
if you use something like AdGuard and you

01:20:04.547 --> 01:20:06.448
use that in conjunction with Safari,

01:20:06.929 --> 01:20:09.389
which Safari has fingerprint protection,

01:20:09.408 --> 01:20:12.029
it has some extra privacy features that

01:20:12.090 --> 01:20:13.570
these third party browsers don't have

01:20:13.631 --> 01:20:14.110
access to.

01:20:15.282 --> 01:20:17.222
And I think that's going to still beat

01:20:17.342 --> 01:20:21.524
out Firefox or Brave browser on iOS.

01:20:21.545 --> 01:20:25.306
So I think Safari is still the better

01:20:25.346 --> 01:20:27.448
option, in my opinion, over this.

01:20:29.047 --> 01:20:30.368
I think it is kind of down to

01:20:30.448 --> 01:20:31.488
Apple, though.

01:20:31.789 --> 01:20:33.090
We talk about this quite a bit when

01:20:33.130 --> 01:20:34.070
it comes to iOS.

01:20:34.951 --> 01:20:36.671
Every browser on iOS is kind of limited

01:20:36.731 --> 01:20:40.073
by Apple because they control all the

01:20:40.092 --> 01:20:41.113
entire platform and

01:20:43.074 --> 01:20:45.015
everything is based on webkit if we had

01:20:45.376 --> 01:20:48.217
you know a gecko browser on ios i

01:20:48.238 --> 01:20:50.158
think that mozilla would have a lot more

01:20:50.198 --> 01:20:54.280
control over how it works and the amount

01:20:54.320 --> 01:20:56.122
of blocking that could be done but since

01:20:56.162 --> 01:20:57.802
it's all by apple it's a lot harder

01:20:57.823 --> 01:21:00.085
for them to make much more sweeping

01:21:00.125 --> 01:21:02.426
changes which kind of sucks but that is

01:21:02.466 --> 01:21:04.806
kind of the situation that we're in with

01:21:04.868 --> 01:21:05.608
apple at the moment

01:21:09.045 --> 01:21:09.585
Yeah, for sure.

01:21:09.685 --> 01:21:11.046
I forgot about the whole third-party

01:21:11.086 --> 01:21:11.905
extensions thing.

01:21:12.065 --> 01:21:12.426
That's true.

01:21:12.506 --> 01:21:14.006
I haven't been on iPhone in a little

01:21:14.046 --> 01:21:14.966
while myself.

01:21:18.347 --> 01:21:18.688
Yeah,

01:21:18.868 --> 01:21:21.009
we can only hope Apple gets forced to

01:21:21.029 --> 01:21:22.090
shape up.

01:21:23.930 --> 01:21:26.490
That was actually all of our stories this

01:21:26.511 --> 01:21:26.711
week.

01:21:26.770 --> 01:21:27.872
I think we'll give it just a minute

01:21:27.891 --> 01:21:29.671
in case anybody has any last-minute

01:21:29.712 --> 01:21:30.273
questions.

01:21:33.123 --> 01:21:33.524
Otherwise,

01:21:33.604 --> 01:21:34.747
it was a little bit of a lighter

01:21:34.787 --> 01:21:35.106
week.

01:21:36.829 --> 01:21:38.632
Not as many big stories,

01:21:38.712 --> 01:21:40.195
but the stories that we did cover,

01:21:40.256 --> 01:21:42.139
I think, were pretty important stuff.

01:21:45.545 --> 01:21:45.945
Hoping...

01:21:48.100 --> 01:21:50.061
It's nice when we have good news.

01:21:50.082 --> 01:21:50.881
We can talk about, like,

01:21:50.902 --> 01:21:53.543
the Firefox getting an ad blocker and

01:21:53.583 --> 01:21:54.363
Brave, you know,

01:21:54.404 --> 01:21:55.965
adding this aliasing thing.

01:21:55.984 --> 01:21:59.867
And it's just nice to have good news

01:21:59.907 --> 01:22:00.346
sometimes.

01:22:01.287 --> 01:22:02.448
Some weeks we don't have it.

01:22:03.747 --> 01:22:04.269
No, it's good.

01:22:04.408 --> 01:22:07.390
So I missed this comment here from Lucas.

01:22:07.729 --> 01:22:08.810
I like your haircut.

01:22:08.831 --> 01:22:08.871
Oh.

01:22:11.435 --> 01:22:13.396
I mean, it's not real, but thanks,

01:22:13.417 --> 01:22:14.296
I guess.

01:22:14.356 --> 01:22:14.898
I saw that, too,

01:22:14.917 --> 01:22:15.618
and that was my thought.

01:22:15.637 --> 01:22:17.639
I'm like, I can't tell if they're joking.

01:22:18.779 --> 01:22:19.420
Believe it or not,

01:22:19.460 --> 01:22:23.903
my head doesn't actually look like this.

01:22:23.962 --> 01:22:25.804
Okay.

01:22:25.823 --> 01:22:26.884
Let's see.

01:22:26.904 --> 01:22:27.864
People are saying, oh,

01:22:27.944 --> 01:22:29.126
Addy.io is pretty good.

01:22:30.046 --> 01:22:31.327
Yeah, I've had a good experience with it,

01:22:31.367 --> 01:22:31.726
too.

01:22:33.108 --> 01:22:35.509
I think any of the recommendations that we

01:22:35.550 --> 01:22:36.810
have, you're going to have no issues.

01:22:41.811 --> 01:22:43.032
Yeah, I don't know.

01:22:45.273 --> 01:22:46.273
There's not too many questions.

01:22:46.292 --> 01:22:47.712
I'm not seeing any questions here and on

01:22:47.733 --> 01:22:48.154
the forum.

01:22:48.213 --> 01:22:49.713
So I feel like maybe we can start

01:22:50.213 --> 01:22:52.054
rolling out into the outro.

01:22:52.715 --> 01:22:54.135
Next time I'll have black hair.

01:22:54.614 --> 01:22:56.315
I mean, I can change it easily.

01:22:56.456 --> 01:22:57.136
So I mean, yeah,

01:22:57.176 --> 01:22:58.576
maybe next time I'll have black hair.

01:22:59.176 --> 01:23:01.596
Maybe I'll have orange hair.

01:23:01.636 --> 01:23:02.796
I was going to say, just shuffle it.

01:23:02.817 --> 01:23:04.037
Yeah, just shuffle it every week.

01:23:04.997 --> 01:23:07.318
You'll never know what I really look like.

01:23:07.358 --> 01:23:08.878
People can place bets on what hair color

01:23:08.899 --> 01:23:09.838
you're going to have every week.

01:23:10.179 --> 01:23:10.639
That'll be fun.

01:23:12.229 --> 01:23:14.471
All right.

01:23:14.511 --> 01:23:14.712
Yeah.

01:23:14.771 --> 01:23:15.592
Well, on that note,

01:23:16.092 --> 01:23:17.594
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01:23:17.673 --> 01:23:19.034
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