Matt: Hey, everybody.
Welcome to money lab.
My name is Matt Non Splunk, Skanska, Jimminy.
See, that's it.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to money lab.
My name is Matt Jimminy.
See.
In today's episode.
This is a, this is an episode that I'm a little nervous to talk about,
but so far I've published an article.
Things seem to be going okay, we're going to get into it.
But this one's titled death to affiliate marketing.
So let's get into it.
I might be sorry that that intro came in a little hot, but.
I think, I think we're okay.
Well, if it, if it did, I'm sorry.
If I blew out your speakers.
I didn't mean to do that.
Welcome to money lab.
Again, my name is Matt and today we're going to talk about something
I think is very cool and very.
Uh, in, you know, things have happened.
In the last month and I want it, or last two months for me.
When it comes to affiliate marketing, and I want to tell you about it.
Uh, so I wrote an article.
I published it today.
As I'm recording this, this, this podcast will go out the same day.
I'm recording it.
Uh, shortly after I'm done recording it.
And it's called death to affiliate marketing, and you
can find it over at money.
lab.co/affiliate-marketing-death.
And why is it called this?
Well, this was an idea that was brought to me by Steph who is my partner in life.
My girlfriend.
Who is like, I think you should do an article about how
affiliate marketing is dead.
And I'm like, well, I don't like that idea because it's technically not dead.
I mean, I still make money with affiliate marketing.
And then she's like, well, what if it's like death to affiliate marketing
as if you're cause here's the thing.
She knows as well as I, that we are de prioritizing affiliate
marketing in our business.
We just have been for the last year.
Um, ever actually.
Probably ever since 2020.
April, 2020, which is when I'm, well, I'll talk about that a second.
Uh, but the reason I was like hesitant to write the article was I'm like,
well, I mean, I'm kind of a hypocrite because I'm saying that I'm, you.
I'm saying death to affiliate marketing.
Is it.
In a very click baity way.
Um, obviously I want you to read it.
But is it really dying?
Is it really a dead, you know, revenue stream?
For everybody.
And the answer is no.
But for us, and the way that we do affiliate marketing, which is mainly
through e-commerce stores like Amazon.
Yes.
We've seen it get harder and harder.
Now.
It's not to say that affiliate marketing wasn't always hard.
It, it, it was because I call it a game of whack-a-mole because
you're constantly dealing with.
People shutting down their affiliate programs or changing
their, their payouts, or, you know, maybe not paying you out in time.
There's like, there's all of these factors.
And then when you start to have.
Multiple affiliate programs that you're trying to manage.
Uh, come tax season, that's going to be a fucking nightmare.
Because, you know how many W2's are going to get in the email?
It's, it's kind of rough.
Uh, and so it just kind of sucks.
It just flat out sucks.
Now I'm saying this as somebody who at one point.
Has made a hundred percent of his income through affiliate marketing.
So I know what I'm saying.
Is.
Contradictory to how I started my business.
And I want to go over that.
Okay.
So.
This is something that is new.
I, I am saying that affiliate marketing is dying for me.
Okay.
It's dead to me personally.
I'm just, I'm kind of fucking over it.
And I'm no longer making it a priority in my business.
And I want to tell you why, and obviously I'm going to tell you why you
don't have to read the article, but I encourage you to read the article because
it's got a little bit more nuance.
I guess maybe this might have more nuance since I'm talking about it out loud.
Uh, so first I want to talk about where I'm coming from.
Because I'm very much an affiliate marketing boy.
I I've I've.
I've been doing it for as long as I can remember.
As long as I've been on the internet, I've been doing it.
Now my method of doing it was I have a site called swim university.
I've had this site since technically 2004.
Realistically 2006 and I've been slowly.
You know, adding articles, creating videos over time to get traffic to it.
And in the beginning I was making my money with, uh, AdSense and affiliate marketing.
I think back then it was DoubleClick by Google or something like that, where.
You know, similar to what link share used to be or, or, or ClickBank
or, or commission junction.
They're all sort of the same, that LinkShare became that Japanese company
that I can never say the name correctly.
Like.
Rack.
Racking.
I don't know.
I can't even visualize it.
The hard brand name is say.
Um,
And they don't even feel like an affiliate marketing company anymore.
They feel more like a, just a general marketplace now.
So.
It doesn't matter.
I used to basically make all my money with affiliate marketing and
it wasn't until I moved on to Amazon.
Because I didn't, I wasn't using Amazon in the very beginning.
I's I eventually switched to Amazon and I create it.
A.
I would, I'm going to call it a WordPress plugin, even though it technically
wasn't a plugin, it was just custom code.
But Andrew.
Uh, w R through listen, money matters.
When we were doing that podcast together, back in 20 14, 20
13, late 2013, early 2014.
He convinced me to design and code my own affiliate marketing
plugin using the Amazon API.
And I wasn't even on Amazon associates affiliate program at the time.
And I hesitated, but I did it.
And it worked.
I created this like kind of pseudo plugin for myself.
To create these little boxes on my site to display affiliate links.
That eventually became a product I called earnest earn IST, which then got stolen.
Or, or wrapped up by lasso.
Right.
And then I started working with lasso for about, I think a year and a half.
You know, taking that plugin, mixing it with Andrew's plugin and kind
of creating what lasts is today.
And then I eventually left that company because.
I mean, I, you know, there's, there's truths to that.
You know, one, I, I.
Was moving houses.
I was literally moving into my new house and I wasn't, you
know, on the internet a lot.
And obviously if you read some other posts of mine, you know what,
I had some personal shit going on.
And.
Uh, it looked like I had lost interest in on Andrew's side.
So he, he, he asked to buy me out and I took the offer because.
In my head.
I'm like, you know what?
Yeah, truthfully, I'm not really into this.
Second of all.
Like, I kind of just feel this, like, This affiliate marketing thing, dying.
And I think I left the company in late 2020.
I think it was October 20, 20.
If I could be wrong about that.
But it was after.
The first sign of death for me, which was, uh, when Amazon really cut their
affiliate marketing commissions.
Down to the bone.
I mean, I'm making.
At, at one point in my career, I was making about 8% commission,
which is not terrible for affiliate marketing, especially in the
e-commerce side of the business.
That's not bad.
It's not good.
Good, but it's not bad.
Okay.
I'll take 8%.
Now I'm making 2.7%.
Which is bad.
If you're selling books, you know, if you're recommending books, you're
recommending smaller products, you're making fractions of a penny.
But if you're selling a big $500 products, then you're making decent money, but
you're still not making a lot of money.
You're just making decent money.
You know enough to survive on.
Enough to have enough to be a solo preneur.
If we want to call it that.
But not enough to run a real business.
If I'm being honest right now.
Again, I want to give some context of where I was.
Okay.
In 2014.
Right.
As I started that little plugin and got on the Amazon affiliate program.
I made $25,000 in affiliate income, right through Amazon.
That's pretty damn good for the year.
That is.
Here's the kicker 2015 full time.
$80,000.
In affiliate marketing.
Okay.
Traffic's growing affiliates are growing.
This is a hundred percent Amazon, by the way.
And I'm not sitting here.
Telling you that Amazon is the only affiliate marketing game in town.
They are absolutely not.
They are the biggest, but they are not the only one.
Okay.
But I do have a point about that.
So you fast forward all the way up to 2019 at its peak.
I made in one fucking year, sorry for the cursing.
But one year I made $284,000 on Amazon associates, which if I, when
I say that number to some people.
It's kind of like it's mind blowing.
I'm not, you know, Wirecutter and bigger, bigger companies like
that, that deal in e-commerce.
Affiliates are making millions, you know, so this is nothing compared to them.
But for just one person practically, just me.
That's a lot of, that's a lot of coin and that's just affiliate
marketing and that's just Amazon.
Okay.
So I'm.
2019.
I'm like it ain't dead.
Um, I went, I it's growing for me.
Okay.
Now.
Truthfully in 2018.
Right.
There was this little hiccup.
I'll call it.
But for me, panic attack on an airplane to Austin.
I thought my business was completely dead.
Because I got an email from Amazon.
It's like, Hey, we're changing our commission structure.
Guess what?
It's no longer a variable meaning.
However much you bring in, you get a higher rate.
So I used to be getting 8%.
I was like top tier.
Well, now that they did a fixed commission based on the industry, right.
Based on the product category.
They were, they were going as low as 4%, three, three to 4%.
So I'm like, oh shit.
There goes half my income now.
Uh, It happened at, I had two websites at the time I had roasty coffee and I assume
university and I had money lab, but.
The two ones that were making all the money with affiliates.
Roasty coffee.
Yes.
Like the food and kitchen category is one of the ones that got cut in 2018.
So that site.
Revenue got affiliate revenue got cut in half.
Just like that.
Boom one month gone, half the revenue done.
I ended up selling that site because that was part of the catalyst.
Also, I had gone in debt because I was spending so much money and getting
content written for some university that it just because it's seasonal, I just.
I didn't play my cards.
Right.
And I had to make up for it.
So I was like, eh, this site isn't really working anymore.
And it's like, I did all this work for two years to build it up.
It was making decent money.
Like in December a good month, I was making seven grand that month.
And I'm like, that's awesome.
You know, it's not.
You know, it's not the whole year, but it's one month and I know it's Christmas.
That's still pretty good for a, for a two year old website.
Right.
So I'm like, okay.
I'll take it.
And then they're like, nah, half that.
I'm like, oh, well, what the fuck, man?
I just spent two years.
Spending all this money, trying to build this up banking on your affiliate program.
And then you just cut it, like who gives a shit?
Right.
So it didn't happen at swim university, the pool and spa or
outdoor industry stayed high.
So I was, I was still growing.
And then in 2020 is when they cut it across the board.
Big time.
I went from 8% down to 2.7.
Big fucking time.
Okay.
Now.
I don't blame them because they're Amazon, like over 50% of people who shop
online are buying shit through Amazon.
They don't need people like me sending them traffic anymore.
So they don't need to be paying me 8%.
They can just pay me 2.7 and because it's e-commerce,
there's no recurring, whatever.
That was the first time to death for me of like, shit, where am I going to go?
Well, so this happens in 2020, right?
And.
I didn't, I wasn't mad.
Oh, I was mad at you because there's a whole post called operation.
Fuck Amazon.
And you can read about that.
If you just type in money, lab.co/fuck.
Amazon there it is, but I'm like, I, I'm not scared because for the
last, since 2018, when that shit went, the first time it went down
to me, that was like, oh shit.
Okay.
We're on thin ice here with Amazon.
Of course, they're going to shut down.
The affiliate program at some point, because if you look at, if you read.
I've read, you know, the Amazon bio or whatever from Jeff Bezos.
He's a fucking ruthless businessman.
He doesn't give a flying fuck about anybody.
But split himself in his company, actually, not even about his
company, really just about himself.
Um,
You know, when you look at their business practices and what
they've done to like diapers.com.
Even some other people I know personally.
It's like, dude, they're fucking ruthless.
Yeah, they're going to cut the ability to program one day.
Guaranteed now Walmart's right behind them.
Cause they're there.
You know, they're all, you know, they're always trying to out Amazon, Amazon
that's I think they literally have that printed in their office or they
have, they have something printed in their office that says don't try to out
Amazon, Amazon, or something like that.
So they're there, they got an affiliate program that pays out, I think pretty
well through LinkShare or whatever is a no, sorry with impact radius.
So I tried signing up for them denied.
So I'm not on fucking Walmart.
Okay.
They keep denying me.
All right.
Whatever.
I ain't got time for this shit.
Well, I get an email after, you know, the Amazon.
Apocalypse happens in 20, um, Um, March, 2020.
Uh, I think it went into effect in April, 2020.
I got an email from a substantially large.
Pool e-commerce company.
And.
Fuck it they're called in the swim.com.
That's.
That's who they are.
I was like, I didn't, I didn't mention their name in the article, but whatever
I'm mentioning it here, who gives a shit and it's still public knowledge.
You can look it up.
Um, They were, they've been around for forever.
I mean, I used to get there, there.
They used to have physical catalogs, they would send out to pull owners in the mail.
Excuse me.
I'm going to sip some tea here.
I'm a slurper I realized recently.
Um, my friends flew into town.
And I was drinking coffee.
And she's like, man, you really slurped that.
Huh?
I go, yeah.
Oh, and then I started to Steph and I'm like, do I slurp everything?
She's like anything hot?
Yeah.
You slurp.
I was like, is that annoying?
She was like, absolutely annoying.
Oh, I didn't know.
I don't, I don't know why I do it.
It's like habit.
I don't know.
Anyway.
I digress.
So I get an email from this company it's been around forever.
Huge.
They have an, they have a affiliate program on impact radius.
And they email me and say, look, we know that you lost all this money with Amazon.
You wrote about it.
On your own money lab.
Uh, we have an affiliate program and we'll pay you get this 10%.
No, that's not what they said.
They said we'll pay you 8%.
And I said, if you, you know, we'll pay you 8% of you start switching all your,
you know, Amazon links over to ours.
I said, okay.
Make a 10% and I'll try.
I okay.
And they said, yeah, 10% cool.
And I tried.
Um, what I did was I didn't replace Amazon links.
With in the swim links, because even though I'm only making 2.7%,
it converts well, Is it going to convert as well over at, in the
swim.com, which doesn't have the best.
Uh, user interface.
I mean, I don't think Amazon does either, but.
You know, here we are.
So I'm like, oh, I kind of was a little hesitant.
And so what I decided to do was the same method that wire cutter was
doing, which was offering a choice.
So inside the lasso display boxes for my affiliate links.
I'd have an Amazon, you know, buy a buy here on Amazon button and a
buy here on in the swim.com button.
If they were the exact same product, which is not easy to manage.
Even in something like lasso, it's still hard because it's like, well now, Okay.
I'm going to flash forward.
To January, 2022.
Okay.
I get an email at the beginning of the month that says in the swim is
shutting down their affiliate program.
Thanks.
That's pretty much it.
And I go.
Well, fuck me.
Because that was my big payout.
And they were, and I was making.
Probably four or $500 a month in the slow season from them.
So I'm like, it was, you know, the affiliate links that I
had put up, they were working.
I could have been more aggressive.
I could have added more affiliate links from them and I could have
made more money from them, but I'm so glad that I didn't do that because
they shut down the goddamn program.
So here I am thinking.
Okay.
Now, what do I do?
Do I spend my time?
Going back into my content.
And deleting those links because they're not paying me.
No, because deleting those links and spending that time, doing that.
First of all, I have to find the links because unfortunately with lasso,
if you add it as a secondary button,
And not the primary button.
It's you can't search for that.
So I have to.
Manually go into every single affiliate link and see if I add it.
Uh, a secondary button.
So Andrew, if you ended up hearing this.
Um, could be a good feature to have.
So, you know, Cause now I can't do anything about it.
I literally would have to go into every single link and find it and delete it.
But again, why would I do that?
When it doesn't that.
That time isn't earning me any money.
It's just removing a link that I'm not being paid for.
I mean, it's still helping the end user.
Find the product they're looking for.
You know, so.
It's not a bad thing to have.
Lingering there, but if a, if a link breaks.
Then then it is bad.
So at some point, I'm going to have to go in and do it, but not now.
They just, they just canceled it.
Second sign of death.
My second largest affiliate.
Canceled.
So I'm sitting there gone, well, let me find it.
Let me find another one.
I found another one.
I emailed them cause they said they had an affiliate program, but
no, one's gotten back to me yet.
How many times we've got to keep emailing you to give you money.
Once I'm sorry, dog.
Once.
Anyway.
You could tell him a little bitter.
And I think rightfully so because it's like, dude, I spent all of this
time and effort building up a website.
Making trying to run a business with affiliate marketing.
I'm seeing growth up and up and up and up.
2020 was my biggest year ever.
And I made, so I went from $284,000 in affiliate revenue in 2019 down to one 70.
Now you're thinking.
That's still fucking good.
Yes, it is still good.
But it went down a lot.
That's like, Almost like 50%.
Uh, revenue gone.
And, and my website had the biggest, the most traffic that year.
So.
How am I supposed to.
Continue.
How am I supposed to continue?
Am I going to just keep hoping that these companies keep their fucking
promise with their affiliate commissions?
No.
Why would they.
It makes no sense once they're once they're big enough.
Or they have a cashflow problem in their company.
God forbid.
Yeah.
The first in their cotton man is the affiliate program.
Sorry, you're fucked.
Your business who gives a shit about your business?
Okay.
It's their business.
You're just riding off their coattails.
You're just taking the fucking table scraps.
And that's a show.
That's not, I'm sorry.
I'm I, this is going to be, I'm sorry.
This is going to be a curse Laden episode.
Because I'm mad.
I'm mad about this.
You can't build a business off the backs of these people who don't
give a fuck about you and you don't have a seat at the table.
You can't just, you can't go, oh, don't cut the program.
My business.
Hey, I'm over here now.
Gives a shit about you.
Okay.
I wasn't going to write this article because of those two things.
Those two signs of death for me.
We're in e-commerce.
But that's not where a lot of affiliate marketers make their money.
Uh, they make their money with software.
You know, or startups or companies that have on handful of products.
And there's always new little e-commerce stores popping up that are offering decent
affiliate commissions because they're trying to get their shit off the ground.
Right.
There's also these, these awesome tools like you have Jarvis, right?
The, the AI software that everyone's pitching.
You know, All the email marketing companies.
They are offering affiliate deals.
All the new guys they're offering affiliate deals.
Now.
That's great.
You know, if you want to.
And then a lot of them are offering really good money, money
to which you could spend on.
Right.
You could technically promote for them in paid advertising.
You could technically.
Send emails out, which is what, you know, If you're, if you're getting a huge chunk
like B school, for example, you know, B-School season, if you're, if you're a
female in this industry, I don't see it, but Steph sir sees it every February.
She gets bombarded with fucking emails from all these affiliate
marketers pitching Marie Forleo's B-School because you know what?
Marie Forleo's B-School is expensive and they're getting a 50% cut.
That's big money.
Until Marie Forleo is like,
We don't need to do that anymore.
We're big.
We don't need affiliate marketing anymore.
And all those people that relied on that.
What are you going to do?
So that's the third sign of death.
Third side of death.
And again, the catalyst.
For what made me write this article?
It was, it was, it was in my head.
Steph had given it to me.
And then I got an email from Thomas Frank buddy of mine.
Now.
Why I got a text from him is because.
I used to use convert kit.
And if you're in this industry, you know, that convert, kit's
got a 30% recurring payout.
For affiliates.
That's awesome.
They were, they were very, very aggressive with that in the beginning.
So that's why, if you, if you're on convert kit now, Or, you
know, somebody on cover kit.
Even myself it's because there was an awesome affiliate program.
Is the software good?
Yes.
The software is good.
But in the early days, it was all about that affiliate income.
Okay.
They're trying to grow their business.
That's how you do it.
It's one way to do it.
I should say.
Now.
Thomas.
I had, you know, I literally got a call from Nathan Barry.
Who's like, uh, you know, we talked on the phone, he got me
to switch over to convert kit.
I'm on convert kit.
I like convert kit.
I still like convert kit.
Okay.
So I'm like, oh, well they got a kick ass affiliate program.
Sign up for that.
Thomas asked me what email service are you using?
I said, I switched from MailChimp to ConvertKit.
He goes cool.
I'm going to do that.
I go great.
Use my affiliate link.
Now Thomas has got a big list.
So all of a sudden I'm making like 300 bucks a month.
From one from referring one person, cause his list is so big.
Okay.
Now I've also put that link all over money lab.
And again, still recommend ConvertKit.
Okay.
I'm not sitting here shitting on ConvertKit by any means.
But Thomas texted me in the middle of February and says,
R I P that suite $300 a month.
You get from my ConvertKit account.
I'm like, oh, are you switching from ConvertKit to something else?
He goes, no.
They're changing their affiliate program.
Seventy-five dollars flat fee for new sales and old commissions
will stop paying out in September.
And I'm like, holy shit.
Uh, that to me.
Nail in the coffin for affiliate marketing.
For me again, this is all subjective.
But there goes.
One of the best paying affiliate.
Software companies that everyone in our industry was recommending.
Fucking gone.
Now.
I know a lot of people.
Who relied on that income?
And, you know, they, a lot of people have built an entire business around
convert kit, around email marketing and specifically convert kit.
Entire businesses.
I see people even Thomas right now is fully not fully, but
he's got an entire little mini side business all around notion.
That's like me putting all my eggs into fucking Assana no way am I doing that?
But he's got it all in notion.
Now I don't, I don't know if he's making any affiliate money with notion.
But God notion changes anything.
And he's not a part of that meeting.
And a lot of his content is kind of.
Worthless.
That just sucks at socks.
You know, But that's not, you know, affiliate marketing is, is when
talking about affiliate marketing, not like basing your entire
business off another mega court.
But that's what.
You know, that's what we're talking about here.
So I saw that and I'm like, Oh, I'm going to write this article now, because
that was honestly in my brain, the one company where I was like, I really
can't write about this because you know, there's still a lot of people making
good money with software affiliates.
But if they were thinking about cutting it because they ended up not cutting it.
It's not cut.
It's changed, but it's not fully cut.
Uh, if they're thinking about doing it, two things, one.
Why do they make that decision?
And I have not talked to Nathan about this.
Um, I.
Not sure.
They're going to want to, I mean, I'm assuming, I mean, if I were him, I
wouldn't want that information out.
Y w w the Y.
Okay.
The why could be.
A little cash.
Poor right the second.
And we need some, we need some cash because here's the thing.
You flip that switch in September when you stop paying out 30% of your revenue.
You get that 30% back.
That's instant cashflow.
Okay.
Perfectly legitimate reason for doing it.
You know, so I can see them not wanting that in Bo out there.
The other reason could just be.
Well, we're big enough now.
And we don't really need this anymore.
We don't really need additional affiliate.
Traffic.
So we're going to, we're going to scale it back.
It could be another reason.
I'm not thinking about.
You know, The the $75 flat fee is interesting.
Because.
I'm assuming that applies to free accounts.
So if you're, if you're getting a lot of customers that are signing
up for free accounts, then you're going to get that 75 bucks.
You're not going to get recurring on a free account.
Right?
So it does benefit the people who are signing up a bunch of noobs, but.
It's really not helping the people who are, who are, you know,
Basing their entire business around like teaching.
Email marketing.
You know, whatever.
But can convert kit, walked it back.
Okay.
Uh, I guess people spoke up.
And, um,
Yeah.
They the, apparently they reached out to people like personally and, and, you know,
they ended up, uh, changing it so that.
I think it's a, now you get over 30% recurring revenue for
two years and then it's done.
So for me, I'm done.
I don't get that 300 anymore.
And.
If you want the $75 payout, you can get that.
So if you're signing up a lot of new people, then you
may want the $75, you know,
Whatever.
I don't, I don't blame them for doing this.
I don't really blame Walmart or, sorry.
I don't really blame Amazon.
And I really don't blame in the same for canceling their affiliate programs.
I can't, I run a business too.
I get it.
Once you get to a certain level.
You really don't need it, or maybe you're just cash poor and you
just need the cash and that's.
One way to do it.
There's one, there's one.
Pole in the bucket that you can plug.
Uh, what I at, and so I just want to be very clear.
That.
Yeah.
A lot of people spoke up and got convert kit to flip it around.
That's great.
Do you think they're going to con I mean, honestly, I don't see.
I mean, maybe after two years, They're going to cut it again.
Why w why wouldn't they.
And.
I'm not again, not blaming convert kit for this.
They should.
Just like Jarvis is going to build up all their people.
They're going to get everybody and they're going to have a thriving business.
They're getting, they're going to get cash poor, or they're
gonna be like, we don't need it.
Goodbye.
Stopped the program.
You know, Maybe, maybe they don't.
But I'm not taking that bet.
I'm not taking that bat.
Some tea.
It's getting cold on me.
Some sitting here yelling into it.
I'm not taking that bet.
I'm not betting on Jeff Bezos to help me out.
Absolutely fucking not.
So, where are we now?
That was 30 minutes of me.
Telling you.
My thoughts on why affiliate marketing is a shitty business model.
Do I, am I going to stop doing it?
Nope.
I'm going to take that one 70, oh, announced down to one
50 a year, 150,000 a year.
I'm taking that money.
But.
I got to look at it as bonus money.
And I know that sounds just so elitist of me to say.
It's like, ah, take 150,000 a year bonus.
It is I'm using it.
I'm spending it within my business.
I got to think of it.
I.
You know, whether it's, it is, it is what it is.
I'm thinking about it that way.
And I don't care if you are.
You know, making hundreds of thousands of dollars with affiliate marketing or not.
Or if you're, you know, you could be making a hundred dollars a
year in affiliate marketing.
I don't care.
Think about the future.
This is what it's all about.
I'm so glad.
That the first time they, they took a little chunk off of
roasty coffee back in 2018.
That I looked at that as, oh shit.
I better.
I better start investing in other revenue streams.
I'm so glad that happened because.
Honestly.
If I didn't do that.
I would be making $150,000 a year today.
Now that's not bad.
But.
That's not a business.
It's just a solo preneur thing.
Completely fine.
Okay.
I'm glad that I'm, I'm running a legit business.
Now I have.
Digital products that I focused on.
Right?
So I'm selling my own, my own products, the products that I make
instead of making 2.7% commission.
I'm making like on a, on a course on online course, like 95% commission,
because maybe that 5% goes to having podia hosts, the course
having every Stripe or every PayPal.
You know, credit card transaction taken 2.7 off the top.
You know, There there's there's your number?
95% margin.
Fucking ridiculously huge.
Okay.
This isn't the same.
Of course digital products is the way to go.
You know, So I started focusing on that, but it's not, it's it's much, much,
much harder to sell a digital product.
Than it is to sell.
You know, someone else's affiliate product, cause it's not yours.
Easy to sell.
Uh, or.
And there and there.
Yes.
The other thing too, what sucks.
What's.
What's great about affiliate marketing is like, especially with Amazon as
an example, or even convert kit.
Right.
You're going to do all the Uh, to, to sell them on the thing, right?
You're gonna, you're gonna pump up the story.
You're gonna tell him why you use it, whatever, whatever.
And then you're sending them off to some other site.
And they, hopefully in the case of Amazon, a hundred thousand percent
have done the job of optimizing the living shit out of their landing
pages to get that person to convert.
So you're benefiting off of all their hard work of getting them to convert.
Which is why a lot of people aren't diverting from Amazon, even though
they're only paying 2.7% commissions because other companies, other smaller
e-commerce companies, like the one I was currently using until they shut
the program down was paying me out 10%.
But their fucking conversion rates were not nearly as high as Amazon.
And why should they be.
We're talking about Amazon versus another small company that no one's ever fucking
heard of until I sent them the link.
So.
That's a benefit.
When you start switching to your own digital products.
Now, all of a sudden you are in charge of that optimization.
So it becomes a lot harder to do.
But.
It's a lot more reward rewarding and a lot more stable.
You have control of everything.
Every piece of it.
Okay.
Now.
That was the first piece, you know, just creating more of my own
digital products on swim university.
I've created three pool courses and one hot tub course.
I want to make more.
It's hard.
But.
Because I've kind of like maxed out the number of courses I could
really make on something, but there's certainly room to grow.
There's you know, the more traffic I get, the more people I get on my email list,
the more people are buying that course every single year people move and they
move into houses with hot tubs and pools, and there are new customers all the time.
So it's happening.
Now, you know, money lab has never really made any money on
affiliate marketing except convert kit, which fucking has gone.
Okay.
There it goes three 50 a month.
Not, I mean, a big.
A loss.
Not a huge loss.
And eventually like my affiliate marketing, the what?
I probably make.
Maybe on a good month, I make a thousand bucks on affiliate marketing and
money lab makes about $8,000 a month.
Uh, yeah.
Yeah.
Which is.
I can live off of money lab.
If I had to.
Right.
But it's all coming from courses.
It's all coming from courses.
Okay.
I'm selling courses, I'm making courses.
Okay.
I'm I'm making an email marketing course.
I am rebranding my affiliate marketing course, because here I am writing
this fucking article saying it's dead.
How am I going to sit there and make and capitalize off a course called
affiliate marketing for bloggers.
I'm not it's called monetizing for bloggers.
I've already rebranded it.
And it will teach.
You know, not just F it will teach affiliate marketing, but it will also
teach creating your own digital products.
And it will teach how to create, I mean, I think I'm going to do this.
Uh, creating your own physical products.
So this is something that I can't do it every brand, but SUNY university.
Absolutely.
I did all of this in money lab pro I did a little experiment back in September, 2021,
where I white labeled a couple of hot tub products and sold them on a Shopify store.
And it.
Worked very well.
To the point where I am now in a position where I think physical products
will outperform digital products in 2022, which is an insane thing to say,
'cause I just, I just started this.
You know, A couple of months ago.
I need to take a breath.
I'm all worked up here.
So I'm doing that.
That's not for everybody, but that's going to be in the course at some point.
And with that, that's all about margin too, and not
making 95%, but 70% is not bad.
60% is not bad.
That frigging 25% not bad.
If I'm being honest.
I mean, obviously I want more than that.
But it's better than 2.7.
Just a lot more work.
That's all.
You gotta stock shit and you gotta have capital and there's all, there's
others, other things, but it's doable.
If you, if you're up, if you're up there, you know, if you're, if you've got a
real business, And I say real meaning.
You know, you're making.
Decent money.
You can set aside some capital, maybe try a physical product.
Okay.
On top of that.
So now I'm creating my own.
Digital and physical products.
They net currently make up like 70 plus percent of my revenue affiliate
marketing's down all the way.
Like 20%.
I, you know, I'm making decent money on a YouTube.
Ads.
Almost as good as not almost as good as affiliates, but it's taken a chunk.
It's just insane how bad affiliate marketing has gotten.
And I haven't changed anything at night.
My tactics are exactly the same.
It's just that the programs have gotten.
They're just paying out less and I have to constantly go in and change links
and it's, and even with, uh, with, with a software, like lasso, it's time
consuming to manage that inventory.
It's just a fucking insane.
And I've and I've thought about hiring for it.
And I, and I, and I will this year just because like, again,
$150,000 is nothing to sneeze at.
But.
You know, It's really hard when it's, when it just, when I'm seeing it drop.
And I'm just like, man, there's these other two?
Areas that are.
I have way more control over way more margin.
If I scale these.
Sky's the limit, you know, affiliate marketing is just like, there's a limit.
Now.
You can't just create products.
You have to market them.
Okay.
When it comes to digital products, I find the best way to market them
is to get people to your website, get them to subscribe to your
email list and sell them there.
I do it at some university.
I get some people who impulse buy Austin university because it's such
a, it's a course that people need right away because it's seasonal and
people just moved into a house money lab doesn't have that same thing.
Even brew cabin doesn't have that same thing.
It's like, oh, I'll buy it.
If you convince me that there's no rush.
So I'm doubling down on email marketing.
I think it's super powerful.
It's incredibly valuable, right?
Think about it.
If you were to sell your business, you know, one day.
Even if it was on empire flippers or something or
Flippa or something like that.
Like, yeah, traffic's super important.
The website it's super important.
The contents important.
But the email list is invaluable.
Like I would pay money just for an email list.
That's where you start getting big money.
And that's where all the money is.
I, I'm not going to go into it in detail here.
You can go on the website.
And look up this article.
And how, um, it's just the money's in the list.
It's true.
I didn't believe it for the longest time.
Last year, I started really focusing on it and it's, I mean, it's just.
Here's why.
I in back in September when I created my first physical product.
Sent one email out, sold out the inventory.
That was it.
Didn't been didn't do any other marketing.
I'm like, oh, I get it now.
And what's cool about that product.
It's a consumable.
I sent another email out when you're, when it's finished and you buy it again.
It's just like.
Feels like.
It's fun.
But email marketing.
And the other marketing channel for me, which works very
well for physical products.
I've had a hard time cracking the code on digital products.
But physical products.
Works very well.
And that's paid advertising.
Now.
I know people are out there like, ah, you got to run webinars
on Facebook, blah, blah, blah.
And I know.
There's ways to crack the code.
And I know people who have cracked it, you know, miles Beckler is out there.
He's cracked the code.
He's tried to help me.
No matter what I've tried.
I CA I can't get it to work for the pool industry.
And, um, Um, Still trying to crack the code, but it's hard.
Okay.
Oh, look at this.
Just got an email.
Circle, which is the, which is the company that I use.
Uh, for my money lab pro community.
They're saying, oh, they just created a partnership program today.
Affiliate program.
Yeah.
Let's see how long that lasts.
Uh,
So here's the thing.
Um, Is affiliate marketing dead.
The answer's no, it's not dead.
It's I think it's dying, but it's not dead.
I think it's a great way.
To get your feet wet in online business, you create a website.
You don't want to make a product right off, right out of the gate.
Cause you don't know what product to create, but you know what to recommend.
And so you recommend somebody else's product and you see if it has legs.
And if it does, then you recreate your own version.
And you sell that.
And that way, instead of going from even 30% recurring it's 95% recurring.
Okay.
It's just the way to do it.
Now you look at your, like, you know, you sit there and you're
like, well, what about wire cutter?
Dude?
Wire cutter is fucking having problems.
When that Amazon thing hit.
Don't tell me that, that, that Wirecutter didn't feel that
they felt it, but guess what?
My gut says that wire cutter has got a special little
side pocket deal with Amazon.
Because they're big enough.
It's the New York times.
Okay.
Now it's a competitor.
Newspaper.
To what Bezos owns, but.
I think they got a little side-pocket deal.
But you'll go Wirecutter and look a lot of their, uh, affiliate links.
They have Amazon, but they also have two other buttons.
Walmart.
And maybe directly to, you know, Williams-Sonoma or whatever the
hell they're there they're Hawking.
So they got a lot of affiliate programs to manage, but that's
their whole business model.
They've they banked their whole business model on that.
And then you have companies like G2.
G2 that review software.
Yeah.
That's their whole business model.
These are massive, massive companies, but.
I'll I'll tell you this.
That is not a business I want to be in.
Of constantly.
You know, having to manage.
Even the convert kit switches, their affiliate link one day, they're
like, oh, we were using this software to manage our affiliate program.
Now we're on this software.
You gotta change your affiliate link.
Oh, God.
Yeah, that's that's that's work.
That's work that you have to do.
And it doesn't change anything about how much you make, but
they're forcing you to do that work.
Or else you don't get paid.
So.
You've got these, all of these companies out there that are
giving you fucking work to do.
And only just so you can keep.
Making money.
I just, I'm not, you know, I don't know about you and again, I'm not.
Deleting all my affiliate links.
They're all staying up.
I'm probably going to work a little bit harder on making sure they're in stock.
Just for the fact that I want people who come to my website to
get a good link to a good product.
If I make money on it, if I make 2.7%.
Scraps on it.
I'll take it.
I'll take the money.
But am I going to offer a product just because it pays me.
Uh, you know, uh, um, uh, commission.
No.
That would be disingenuous of me as a person.
I recommend convert kit, but I also recommend active
campaign I'm on active campaign.
I like ConvertKit when, when I was just getting started up into it,
but I needed a more advanced shit.
So I went to active campaign.
I recommend both depending on who you are.
Do I recommend Bluehost cause they pay out.
A good amount of money.
No, they suck.
I recommend WP engine.
Do I make a ton of money with WP engine?
No.
Because they're more expensive, so I'm not going, I'm going to
con convert that many people.
But.
I'm just, um, you know,
Just, just look at the industry.
I know I've, I've heard stories now.
I'm not really kind of, I'm not interconnected.
Into all of this right.
But.
When you look at PatFlynn as an example, like old school
affiliate marketing guy, right?
He was my guy.
He's not my guy for affiliate marketing anymore.
Not his fault.
He's not focused on it.
Why, why should he be?
He's got a real business.
He's he's he's he's doing Pokemon.
No, that's not what he's doing.
Well, yeah, he's doing Pokemon.
Right, but he's doing.
He's got a frigging, uh, physical product.
He's got courses.
He's got software.
And I'm sure he makes some money with affiliate marketing.
But he's not pitching ed.
He stopped doing the, the, the, what do you call it?
The.
Income reports.
And then I I've heard.
I, you know, so, so you can't, you're not really going to him.
He's not, I don't know if he's writing any new articles about affiliate marketing.
He may be, or have somebody on his team doing it, but you, but like,
I, I don't know it personally, but.
You know, he's not into it anymore.
Y Y there's got this, he's got, he's got products, real products that are his.
Why would you be right now?
You look at the, uh, I, I heard this about a 30 hacker.
How they H.
You know, not change and not, and it's not a bad thing either.
It's exactly what I'm doing, which is.
You know, you teach affiliate marketing.
Because it's a really, it's a really used to be, I should say a good way
to get started on my own business.
And I think it, I think it is.
And it's just harder now.
That's all.
And now they're, you know, they're teaching, you know, okay.
Create your own damn product to.
So now that's all I'm saying.
Is if you're in, if you're into affiliate marketing, And it's a
hundred percent what your business is.
Start.
Trying to replace those products with your own.
But I know physical products is difficult.
And it requires capital may not be for everybody.
It certainly wasn't for me until now.
Uh, but I'm sort of kicking myself for not doing it.
Earlier.
It's not as hard as I thought it was going to be.
So I'm, I'm kind of mad.
I didn't start a lot earlier.
But physical or digital products.
Again, another thing I wish.
Another thing I wish I had done a long time ago.
So that's it.
I say death to affiliate marketing.
I say start diversifying.
I say.
Let's let's create a business off the backs of ourselves instead of
off the backs of fucking Jeff Bezos.
He doesn't give a shit.
You know, and as much as I want to believe.
That business owners, including myself.
You know, Care, they do some of them do.
But they care more about their own business.
It's survival.
So.
If it means.
Injecting some cash in their business because otherwise they could fail.
Then they're going to cut in a PR.
They're going to cut a Uh, if they, if they just, you know, I'm just saying.
Don't don't bank on it.
Don't put all your eggs in the basket.
You don't know, who's holding it.
That's it for the show.
And, uh, hopefully this was in, uh, inspiring more than
it was, um, in, in, in.
Anger inducing.
Uh, But let me know, send me an email.
matt@moneylab.co I'm here to answer your emails.
I'm here to talk to you.
I'm here to help.
Bye-bye.
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