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Most mentoring relationships come to an end at some point. Life circumstances change, you or your mentee move away, or some other event occurs that makes it impossible to continue the formal mentoring relationship in the same way. In doing so, however, ending a mentoring relationship can be a challenge, especially when the mentee has a history of struggling with feelings of abandonment. You, as the mentor, become just another person in a long list of people who have abandoned them. So how do you navigate that? How do you set your mentoring relationship up for success and communicate to your mentee that you leaving has nothing to do with them and that you still love them? Zach and John take on this issue in today’s episode where they discuss the challenges that ending a mentoring relationship well can face and how to navigate those challenges.
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase John's Book:
Mephibosheth! The Search for Identity, Purpose, and Community
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. Learn more at you can mentor.com or follow us on social media. You can mentor. Our main man, mister John Bernard has released a book entitled Mephibosheth,
Speaker 2:The
Speaker 1:Search for Identity, Purpose and Community. It's an amazing book and I know it will encourage you and your fellow mentors. While you're at it, pick up my book, You Can Mentor, How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission and Break Generational Curses. You can find both of these resources on Amazon or on our website. Lastly, follow us on social media.
Speaker 1:Listen to the podcast and share everything you find valuable with your mentoring friends. We're here for you, and we wanna add value in whatever way we can. Thank you so much. You can mentor. We here at You Can Mentor are toying around with the idea of having a mentoring gathering or conference where mentoring leaders can come, get encouraged and equipped as they lead their ministries.
Speaker 1:Our goal in this is to create a safe and fun environment where mentors can share stories of struggles and successes while bonding together with their mentoring team and other mentoring leaders all across the country. If you lead a team of mentors and are interested in learning more about this gathering, please reach out to us. We'd love to pick your brain on how to create a gathering that best serves you and your team. Since this is our 1st year doing it, we want as much input as possible to create the best experience as possible. Thanks.
Speaker 1:You can mentor. Mentoring leaders, are you looking for a place to discuss important mentoring issues with other people who are passionate about mentoring? If so, let me introduce You Can Mentored Learning Labs, a monthly call with other mentoring leaders to support each other as we lead mentoring organizations and other mentors. Each call will focus on a topic and allow you to share as well as hear from others on the struggles and successes they have had regarding this specific topic. To sign up, please reach out to zachgarza@zach@youcanmentor.com or find us on social media.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Remember, you can mentor.
Speaker 3:Hey, you can mentor listener. I didn't see you standing there. This is John.
Speaker 2:Oh, this is Zach.
Speaker 3:Did you see what I did?
Speaker 2:I did.
Speaker 3:I made it so that it's like multimedia.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. It's like
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like the old radio shows when you're not watching anything, Zach, because this is just audio, but, dude, we present in such a way where you can see it.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. Yeah. I I saw what you did.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I don't know if I've ever been more excited about a topic that we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Really?
Speaker 3:Than this. I I really I truly am. I truly am excited.
Speaker 2:This is kind of a hard topic.
Speaker 3:I think that's what it is though, man, because it it's the meat. You know?
Speaker 2:It's the meat. Sometimes, man,
Speaker 3:we gotta get to the meat. I think sometimes we can be about window dressing. I think everybody just heard you drink that that cup of coffee. I think everybody heard that.
Speaker 2:I didn't mean to do it. John made fun of me for drinking coffee earlier. Guys,
Speaker 3:I don't wanna betray his trust, so I think that he's gonna give me liberty to say this, but you can mentor listener. What Zach did earlier was he slurped his coffee, and then he made an audible m. He put mini in the letter m, and it was too much. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It was too much.
Speaker 2:Man, we gotta get on topic here, dude.
Speaker 3:We really do. We're off. Especially with
Speaker 2:This issue.
Speaker 3:Just how big of a deal this is.
Speaker 2:Lee, I want you all to know everyone that we are we're all down for a good time over here at You Can Mentor. But today's topic is actually a really good one. And I'll tell you how this topic came up. Well, one, this is a topic that every mentor will deal with at one point in their relationship. But I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and they got approached by a young adult, late teens, who wanted to grab coffee with them, basically asking this person to become their mentor.
Speaker 2:But in their initial coffee conversation, there was just a lot of stories. There was just a lot of signs that, oh my gosh, this, this kid has, for the lack of a better term, abandonment issues. They, they have been left by a number of people who really shouldn't leave
Speaker 3:them,
Speaker 2:their father, other important adults in their life. And this person came to me and they're exactly, I don't know what to do. And I was just thinking, I was like, man, this is such a complex topic that I think it's worth discussing on the pod. Mhmm. So here we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So John was at his house yesterday, and I was doing a podcast with someone else. And I had to borrow a cable, and I go over to John's house. John's installing flooring in his kitchen. Correct.
Speaker 3:Yes. Putting down engineered hardwood flooring.
Speaker 2:Yes. And I go in there and say, hey, man, this is the topic that I wanna talk about tomorrow. And he says, What did I say? He said, oh, that's a good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. So I still I still believe it is. Is it is it okay to say that we're kinda in in summing up this for my brain, like, we're we're talking about maybe beginning with the ending in mind, or even if we're in the maybe we're midstream. Maybe we've been mentoring a specific mentee for a couple of years, but we've never kind of been mindful of to think about, oh, should I begin maybe laying some groundwork, or how can I kind of get prepared for the inevitable, which is everything has to end?
Speaker 2:So this issue is very nuanced, and we're just gonna say that from the get go. Some some issues, John and I are like, hey. Here are the 3 steps that you need to do. These are proven. These are safe.
Speaker 2:These are effective. This is an issue that it's like, let's chew on its own because we really don't know what every relationship needs. We don't know your kid. We don't know you. We don't know their past.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of it is dependent upon their past.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And a lot of it is dependent upon their maturity level.
Speaker 3:And This isn't a simple formula. This isn't as much as I would like to just put an acronym on this thing. Right?
Speaker 2:Gosh. You love acronyms.
Speaker 3:They're so good. But this is not that listen. Can I put my coffee on this book right here?
Speaker 2:That's your book. Oh. We're not gonna drop the book. No. Don't sell the book on the pod.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay. I just didn't wanna make a noise.
Speaker 2:You you did that last episode. Kinda dropped it.
Speaker 3:So I did. Yeah. Listen. I wanna just take a moment to apologize for that. It's okay.
Speaker 3:It's okay. I I don't want this to be a bait and switch. Mhmm. I don't want it to be about my book sales Yeah. Which You
Speaker 2:can't find the wrong
Speaker 3:pretty good. Let me just say that. Things are pretty good.
Speaker 2:Oh, man. That's hilarious. Oh, jeez. So
Speaker 3:let's get let's get into this.
Speaker 2:Okay. So the topic today is, like John said, ending a relationship with when your mentee has abandonment issues, how to start with the end in mind. And this is actually a personal topic for me. So I have As you know, I have abandonment issues still. I mean, I'm I'm 40, old man.
Speaker 2:I've got a couple hairs on my head that are gray. Just a couple. But even still, you know, this issue of abandonment, this issue of trust, this issue of assuming the worst, they pop up, they pop up. And it's tough. But especially whenever I was younger, whenever a mentor would end things with me, I would always take it personal.
Speaker 2:At the time, I I didn't know this, but it really had nothing to do with the mentor. It had everything to do with me. It had to do with my wounds. It had to do with my past. It had to do with me being immature.
Speaker 2:And that isn't fair for the mentor. I'm sure there's a couple guys in my life that tried to mentor me. Maybe they had to move. Maybe it was just a new season of life. Maybe it was a new job, and they said, hey, Zach, we can't meet anymore.
Speaker 2:And I got hurt. I got offended. I got angry, and I said, well, this guy forget this guy. And I probably, in my wounding, cut them off. And this is something that that we really can't stress enough here on this podcast, is that when you're mentoring someone, and they're a kid, they're a teenager, they are younger, we have to understand that our mentees are still kids, that they have wounds.
Speaker 2:Some of them have very significant wounds, and they haven't been healed yet. Some of these kids are immature. They just don't understand some things. Like me, like I couldn't objectively say, oh, that makes a ton of sense that he's moving and he can't meet with me anymore. Like that makes sense.
Speaker 2:That has nothing to do with me. But in my wounding, I couldn't understand that. Why? Because I was a kid. Because I was young, because I was immature, because I didn't understand it yet.
Speaker 2:I can look back now and say, oh, yeah. That makes perfect sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think you're absolutely right just in talking about our mentees being young. I mean, when we think about it, the healthiest of kids, right, from the healthiest of upbringings with the healthiest of adults, you know, pointing themselves at their lives are still going to have issues because for a number of reasons they're going to be the center of their own universe. They're going to be dealing with all the issues that we all dealt with growing up. But when it comes to some of these teenagers or children that we come to know, whether it's initiated by a school or someone who says, Hey, this this kid could really use some time, could really use some mentoring.
Speaker 3:Well, we've got kids there that maybe they're just always looking for the other shoe to drop. I mean, when you think about some of these kids who have been through some very traumatic situations, when anything healthy or good kind of enters their life, they're probably thinking, well, we'll see. You know, this won't last long, I'm sure. So you're starting with that uphill battle right from the get go. And I wanted to mention this, Zach, actually right before we we started, but the the issue and I think, again, why it's so important that we're talking about this and why we need to talk about some of these nuanced and difficult situations is because we want to knock down all the barriers that a mentor would have for not doing it.
Speaker 3:And I think this is one of those that is very clear, like, oh, why would I even wanna get it started if it's going to if I have the potential to to do some damage on the on the back end of this thing? And I think this is when we need to say, please don't let the what ifs and what could be a reality and and and some of this some of these situations that are hard to deal with keep you from getting into that mentoring organization or going to the school and finding or or even organically mentoring in your neighborhood. We we're, we're really coming at you listener to say, we want to keep, we, we want to make mentoring effective and accessible. And so this can just be one of those things that might be, might dissuade a potential mentor. And I just kind of hate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And to that, I would say it takes a ridiculous amount of faith to believe that god is bigger than our situation, that god really loves this kid more than we do, that god has a plan, that even if we mentor for 6 months, 6 years, that for most of these mentoring relationships, we're we're a piece of the solution. Like, we have a like, we are going to participate in only a section of this mentee's life. Mhmm. But god's looking at the whole story.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And so we have to trust, hey, god. I'm gonna say yes to this mentor in relationship. I'm gonna say yes to this mentee, and I'm gonna trust that I'm gonna do it for however long it lasts, and you're gonna take care of the rest. And you're gonna heal wounds even if this mentee gets mad at you. You're gonna heal wounds.
Speaker 2:You are somehow, someway gonna turn bad into good and use it to advance the kingdom in the life of this mentee. I think one thing that we have to understand as mentors, this is paramount, is that number 1, we are dealing with kids. We always have to remember that. And, John, what you just said is great. Even the healthiest of kids don't respond well every time.
Speaker 2:But for some of us, we're dealing with kids who have baggage. We're dealing with kids who have wounds. We have to be the adult. We have to walk out in grace. We have to walk out in understanding and compassion, knowing that they're gonna get mad about some things that they shouldn't get mad at.
Speaker 2:They will get offended. They will get angry. They will get hurt. They will shut down, and that's okay. That's okay.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that you did something wrong. It doesn't mean that you have to take it personally. It just means that that they're dealing with some stuff, and they're trying to figure it out. And what better opportunity for a mentor to help them figure it out than to sit in them in that anger, in that offense, and to not leave and to talk it out? Grace has to abound.
Speaker 2:Grace has to abound. Love overcomes a ton of offenses. And so just stick around, love them, all of that good stuff, and that's all I got.
Speaker 3:Consistency is Yes. Super important. That's right.
Speaker 2:Yes. You you are the adult, and you are strong and mature enough to absorb their pain. Mhmm. To observe observe absorb their when they get angry and they are mean and they're rude or they don't talk to you, you can deal with that because you are a mature adult. So, yeah.
Speaker 2:As you know, as much as we want to mentor a kid forever, which like whenever I first started mentoring and I was 28, I was for sure that me and this mentee were gonna hang out for the rest of our lives. He was gonna be in my wedding. I mean, we're talking like drop him off at college, be in there whenever he he gets married, like being there for his first kid, all of this stuff. And that that may happen to some. And if it does, man, I wanna celebrate that.
Speaker 2:Like, that is a great thing. But usually, there comes a point where the relationship breaks down. It might be because of a job change, might be because of a life change, might be because of a move. I mean, what happens when your kid goes to college? Things are going to change.
Speaker 2:But but we have to figure out how can we set this Minty up, especially one who's been deserted in the past, one who's been abandoned in the past. How can we turn a potentially bad thing like us not hanging out anymore as much into something that actually prepares them for life.
Speaker 3:So Yeah. You know, change is inevitable. Right? Mhmm. So it's a certainty.
Speaker 3:And I think that it's interesting as you as you put it, this idea of saying, maybe even if we're establishing this mentormancy relationship where we're we're deep in we're we're years deep into it, if you were to say something like, hey, I will always be there for you. You can always count on me. We are we are always going to stick together. I, you know, I I kinda pose the question, is it is it always good to make promises? Because, you know, these these statements can sometimes be misconstrued because even saying that, hey.
Speaker 3:I'll I'll always be there for you. Well, that may be understood as I will always be in this room, you know, and available to you right here. So they're gonna process what I say and mean a specific thing about it. And that's what I think we need to be mindful of. That's that's kinda how we need to be responsible as well as what words we use, not only what we're saying and what we mean, but how that's being processed by our mentee as well.
Speaker 3:I would I would just say careful with our promises. Well,
Speaker 2:I'm gonna camp out here. Yeah. Okay. Because and this is part of us figuring this out because I like what you just said. Hey, mentor, mentee, sorry.
Speaker 2:Hey, mentee. I'm, I'm always going to be
Speaker 1:here for
Speaker 2:you. Like there's a part of me that's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't say that. Do not say that. But then there's a part of me that's like, but can you?
Speaker 2:And so I'm like, okay, how can we maybe, maybe a good question to ask is what are you trying to convey? So let's take that statement. I'm always gonna be there for you. And what are we trying to say to that mentee? I don't know the answer.
Speaker 2:Do you know the answer?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, I think with that, we're we ultimately want to comfort them. Right? I want what if I'm gonna say that to you, like, Zach, if I if I call the radio station and I and I make a request, you know, Bon Jovi, I'll be there for you, to you specifically. Right? Because in friendship, I want you to know.
Speaker 3:And then I say, hey, man. You know, if you're listening to 104 tonight, something real special is gonna happen. And the DJ's gonna say, hey. This next one goes out to, Zach from John, his buddy. Bon Jovi's.
Speaker 3:I'll be there for you. You know? Then that you know what I what I want you to hear. Right?
Speaker 2:Is what?
Speaker 3:Is that is that, dude, come at pardon my French. Come hell or high water. Right? Nothing's gonna nothing's gonna become between us. Right?
Speaker 3:This friendship is stronger than circumstance.
Speaker 2:There you go. That's good. Your Bon Jovi thing, I don't know about that. Your DJ sounded like he was smoking a pack of cigs, but I get what you're saying now.
Speaker 3:Okay. Even my DJ had Flynn, but keep keep going. Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay. So instead of saying, I'll always be there for you, maybe you can say, hey, circumstances are going to arise that might change our relationship. But I want you to know that I love you no matter what. Or I'm I am only a phone call away. Or I'll always make time for you even if we can't physically be together.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And so that's good. So here is the tension. Okay? If you tell them you're not going to be with them forever, you risk them not opening up.
Speaker 2:Because if, like, the first time that we meet, I'm like, hey, John. Nice to meet you. I'm Zach. I'm your mentor. This thing's probably not gonna last.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna be honest with you. Mhmm. That's that's not a great way to start. And your kid's gonna be like, well, then what the heck am I doing? I'm just wasting my time.
Speaker 2:But on the flip side of that, if you tell them that you're gonna be with them forever, well, that's that might not be true. And so you risk hurting them in the future. So so I think that we have to keep in mind 2 things whenever we're starting to talk about this topic. Well, like we we have to consider our words. Like, we have to be thoughtful about the words that we are saying to these kids.
Speaker 2:Because if you just on a whim, you're like, yeah, man. Of course, I'm always gonna be there for you. You might not think about that ever again because you're just tossing it out there. But to the kid to the kid who wants nothing more than love and and for someone to be there for them forever because they might not have that, they might hold on to that and that might mean to them a significant amount more than it means to you. Oh, 100%.
Speaker 2:So I think what you just said, hey, I'll always be there for you. And there are different kinds of things that we say like that. Mhmm. I think we just gotta be mindful. We have to be very considerate of the heart of our mentee.
Speaker 2:And this really is the point of this podcast is, hey. Look. It's probably gonna end at some time. We don't really know how to solve that issue. We don't really know how to fix this.
Speaker 2:But what we do know is this. We have to be intentional about protecting the hearts of these children, of these mentees. Because for reasons probably that have nothing to do with them, they've just been dealt a tough hand, man. And they have maybe experienced some really hard things that no kid should ever have to experience. And it does cause them to assume the worst.
Speaker 2:It does cause them to be really slow to open up. It does cause issues where they don't trust anyone. And that's got nothing to do with you. It's got nothing to do with them. It's just the way it is.
Speaker 2:It's this world is broken. And but in the midst of that, we get to protect their hearts.
Speaker 3:So explaining sounds like that's a positive in this maybe. Even with our statements, we might we might convey a truth or a promise or a hope, and then that we would be first of all, as as I'm listening to listening to you talk about this, you're saying, hey. Let's be intentional with our words, and then let's if we need to, maybe ask a question to say to know that not only am I communicating to the best of my ability, but also is, like, is how is this being received by my mentee? How are they processing this? Maybe that could lead to another question to say, so when I say that, what do you what does that mean to you?
Speaker 3:Or let's talk maybe a little bit more specific so that you can so that you can explain that, so that you don't get the situation where the kid comes back and says, oh, it means that it means that, you know, you're always going to live in my neighborhood and that you're never going to leave me in that way. So it to me, it it allows conversation kind of allows for explanation, which which brings around understanding and so that we're communicating effectively.
Speaker 2:For sure. And I'm gonna kinda pause here and put this in there. Let's say you do move. Let's say you can't spend time with your mentee anymore. We have talked about this in the podcast before.
Speaker 2:But if if you can find someone to take your place, specifically someone that you know and trust, like, hey, I'm moving, but here's my best friend. I'm moving, but here's my coworker. I'm moving, but here's my neighbor. And I love them and I know that they're going to continue to invest into you. In my opinion, that is the best way to handle transition, which is why we say it's really good to partner with a mentoring organization because they can help facilitate that.
Speaker 2:So I'll say that that is probably the best option. So if you find yourself having to say goodbye, if you can replace yourself, yes, that sounds terrible. But if you can give them someone else, that is best case scenario. However, we know that that doesn't always happen. And when it doesn't, you're in a pickle.
Speaker 2:And that's why we're having this conversation. So pay attention to your words. Wording is very important. But then also say the second thing is timing and environment, those play a significant factor. So, John, I think what you're saying is really wise here.
Speaker 2:This is probably a conversation to be had. And as a mentor, I think it's best if we take some time before having the conversation to prepare for this conversation. And, I mean, I probably wouldn't have this, like, on the basketball court. I probably wouldn't have this conversation when you're in the car trying to drive around. I think this is a sit down, like, hey.
Speaker 2:Like, this is a big deal because you're treading on some thin ice here,
Speaker 3:and there is a possibility for your mentee to be heard. And, you know, as you mentioned, because there are tons of variables that go into this, I think that it's something important to be mindful of when we begin that relationship of a mentor mentee specific to maybe our kid, if I can just use that that term, where you say, oh, you know what? Knowing this student, having talked to coaches, having talked to parents, having talked to teachers, you're gonna get a really good idea of the amount of trauma maybe there that there may be there about abandonment issues, about whatever else there is, and I think that would help to inform and kinda get you prepared to begin with to think, oh, you know what? I better start laying the groundwork for some conversation, and and when I speak to my mentee, not that we're always just kinda with one foot out the door in these relationships. I'm not saying that in any way.
Speaker 3:But as you mentioned, you know, knowing that knowing your timing but this is yet another area that we need to be very mindful of. So this this is what I'm I'm thinking about as well when I hear you talk about this matter of timing and of when it's most appropriate, Zach. And that is this idea too of, like and I don't know if I can if it makes sense to to put this point in there, but, you know, trust needing be to be established and that that taking time. So relationships are like bank accounts. Right?
Speaker 3:And the more you put in, the more confident you can be of when it's time to make a withdrawal. Right? And so I don't know if that's helpful to anybody, but this idea of putting the time and putting the effort in is like making those deposits into your mentee. And that when you feel like there's a there's a healthy balance there, then I think you can make that turn of saying, now I'm gonna kinda ask of you. And it might not be easy, but it's like a hard conversation or maybe a hard question.
Speaker 3:I think you're gonna have so much of a better result when you've put that when you've put that time in and you've treated it like that.
Speaker 2:I think that's good, John. That's good stuff. It's a lot better than your DJ analogy that much.
Speaker 3:I I you're right. You know, you're right about that. I think it would have been something if we would have had the song in the background playing and everyone would have just really connected to that.
Speaker 2:John, I don't think our most of our listeners know who Bon Jovi is because you're old.
Speaker 3:That's on them.
Speaker 2:Okay. So going back to this conversation, I don't think I'd be super blunt. Hey, man. Look. There's gonna be a day whenever I'm out of here, bro.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah. That's probably not the best. But I would be honest. And I think you're right, John. Asking questions is probably the way to go.
Speaker 2:So here is how it might go. Hey. I know in our past conversations, you've mentioned that people tend to leave you a lot. What do you think about that? How does that make you feel?
Speaker 2:Hear what they have to say, help them process that because they probably have never even thought about that. That's that's one more thing that we have to realize about kids. For us as adults, it's really obvious. Hey, this guy this kid's dad left. This kid lives in a really tough spot.
Speaker 2:This kid's endangered. This kid goes to a tough school. This kid but to the kid, they're probably like, this is just life. I don't know any different. I have never seen any different.
Speaker 2:Like me, I grew up without a dad around, and I didn't even know that that was a big deal until I was in my mid twenties because all of my friends didn't have dads around either. It's just normal. And then some guys like, hey, man. You know this is impacting you in a in a bad way. Right?
Speaker 2:And I was like, nope. Had no idea. And that's what most of our kids are thinking. So you get the opportunity to help in a safe place with trust established. Kinda help them process that one step at a time.
Speaker 2:Right? Hey man, whenever your dad left or whenever, you know, this person said that they were gonna be there forever and they left, Why do you think they did that? Or did that really have anything to do with you or did it have everything to do with them? Right? Just being wise to ask the right questions, allowing the Holy Spirit to put those questions on your heart, and being able to read their their how they're how they're kinda trying to carry themselves.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. If they get real tense, if they shut down, if their head goes down, okay, but hey, woah, woah, chill. Like, okay, you might've overstepped your boundaries here, but if they're open to it, then you can just kind of like, you know, take one step, see how they're doing. Take one step, see how they're doing. Take one step.
Speaker 2:Oh, it doesn't look like he's prepared for this. So just, I don't know. I think one other thing is like, what if you brought up situations like, Hey, man, have you ever thought about what would happen if I ever had to move one day? Or, Hey. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or what would happen if you moved? Right? And so just kinda hypothetically having those conversations beforehand can kinda help start preparing them for the possibility of this happening potentially.
Speaker 3:For sure. And, again, you can kinda preempt that to say, hey. Just real quick. You know, I'm not moving. Right.
Speaker 3:But I think that it's an important thing as we talk about what it means to continue to get older and, you know, go through this thing called life, man. Separation is just it's a part of it and moving on and and kind of being seasonal. So, hey. Yeah. What do you think that you do, or how would that make you feel?
Speaker 3:And that, hypothetically, is is really a great way to kind of approach that because you get tons of teachable moments. And I think just as you're mentioning, Zach, this idea of, like I mean, one thing that I love about mentoring is that you, as the mentor, you have a perspective that the mentee doesn't have, but that can be shared.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And that is something that we're really called to do, I think, is to share perspective and have that mentee say, oh, you know, those moments of, like, oh, wow. I I wasn't really thinking about that or I didn't really know that. And that's just, a lot of times that's just the easy stuff, you know, because again the mentee is is they are the center of their universe. They are trying to just figure out what it means to be a human being, a teenager, whatever. And the mentor can come along as someone who has that experience and that perception and that perspective on life and and share it and just share it in a real way.
Speaker 3:And so you kinda realize that the things that the most teachable things in the world are are the things that come to you most naturally.
Speaker 2:Here's a good question. As a mentor and this is varsity level mentoring stuff I'm about to say right here. Wow. Okay. Some of our mentees are filled with fear.
Speaker 2:That's how they operate. They operate out of fear. I am going to see the world in a way that it's dangerous and it's trying to get me, and I I have to protect myself. So if you find yourself with a mentee like that, try to think ahead of time. What are the fears that they could pick up from what I'm about to say?
Speaker 2:What are the lies that the enemy can toss at them from what I'm about to say? And then try to combat those on the front end. So if you're like, okay. I wanna have a conversation hypothetically about me moving, what lies could he hear? Well, if I move, then I'm not ever gonna see him again, then I don't love him, then it's his fault, you know, all of those things.
Speaker 2:And then before you have the conversation, say, hey. Look, man. I just want you to know that and then dispel those lies. I just want you to know that no matter what happens circumstantially, that I'll always love you. I want you to know that sometimes things happen and it's not your fault, or it doesn't have anything to do with you.
Speaker 2:It has to do with me. Just anything like that. So if you could have the wherewithal to to think about those things beforehand, that could be helpful. You got it.
Speaker 3:It's like the idea, right, of, like, your kid, you know, at night, they look over at the coat rack, and it's a monster. And what do you do? You turn the light on and show and you just show that there's no power there. And I think we get to do that so often in our mentor mentee relationships where you say, hey, man. What's your biggest fear?
Speaker 3:You know? And they say, well, it's it's you leaving because my world would be over. And then you get to shine a light on that to say, well, it's not happening today. It's not happening tomorrow, but someday it might. But let me tell you something.
Speaker 3:The bond of this friendship is stronger than geography. And so if either you or I have to move to another city, I'm going to continue to pray for you. We're gonna continue to stay in touch. Like, it is not going to be this this relationship is not based on the the miles between us. And so that can be incredibly freeing.
Speaker 3:And, again, it it really just shines a light.
Speaker 2:That's a 90 second conversation, John, that you could have with your mentee that could absolutely change your life. Yes. It's crazy. 100%. Have you ever hid behind the coat rack and scared your kids to try to get at them a little bit?
Speaker 3:No. Why would you why would you create a situation that that only No. Stills fear as I just I talked about the the opposite of that. It seems like you want to
Speaker 2:You know how sometimes as a dad, you're like, oh, this will be funny, and it's not. It's like the worst thing that you could possibly do. Has that ever happened to you before?
Speaker 3:I don't think I've ever made a decision as a father as as as damaging as that.
Speaker 2:Someone listening to this podcast has done that, and I want you to know that there's grace. Actually, someone probably hasn't because the only people who hear this podcast is my mom. Hi, mom. Okay. So going back to me.
Speaker 2:Alright. As always, I wanna focus on myself. But going back to teenage Zach Mhmm. Fearful, abandonment issues, you know, zits, trying to fit in, but had a killer jump shot. Amazing.
Speaker 2:When a mentor would leave, I would think the following things. Number 1, I did something wrong. Number 2, I'm unlovable. Number 3, this is always going to happen. Okay?
Speaker 2:So kinda like what we were saying, if you have this conversation, you can just assume if your mentee comes from trauma, they're thinking something along these lines. And so It's it's gonna be personalized. Right? Oh, fuck. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A 100%. No person.
Speaker 3:That person is not thinking objectively? Nope. Okay.
Speaker 2:Nope. I agree. You could go to your mentee and say, hey, I just had a baby and we're moving to California because I got a job that pays me $1,000,000 a day.
Speaker 3:Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:And your mentee would think I did something wrong. Yes.
Speaker 3:It's their fault.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And that is just the brokenness of the world. Like that has nothing to do with you. But as mentors, what an opportunity to respond with grace with, oh my gosh, this mentee has had such a hard past that they really do believe the worst, even whenever it has nothing to do with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So how do you dispel those lies? Man,
Speaker 2:you just gotta be cognizant of it. So maybe as mentors, one of the best things we can do, one of the best things we can do is to try to figure out the lies that our mentees believe. And I don't know how to do that. Obviously, it changes if, you know, you have a kid who's 6, you have a kid who's 16, you're mentoring someone who's 26, all different ways to do that. But I think that is just a tool that you can put in your mentor tool belt that can be very helpful because every time you hang out with your kid, you can dispel those lies.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. I mean, and really this is gonna sound painfully obvious, Zach, but speaking truth really matters. And even when it's maybe not received well, it's, there's, there's a powerful thing. Okay. So here's a just an example.
Speaker 3:Alright? Oh, no. A little marriage tip
Speaker 2:for you. Okay.
Speaker 3:As you know, I've been married for 87 years now. Alright? I literally started dating my wife when she before she was my wife.
Speaker 2:How long?
Speaker 3:We were teenagers. How long
Speaker 2:have you been married, John?
Speaker 3:I've been married 25 years this this coming June. It's a big deal. It is a big deal. And I and I and we were dating 8 years before that.
Speaker 2:And let me just say to the listener, John's wife, Mandy, is lovely. She is. She's awesome. Okay. So so yes,
Speaker 3:please. Where was I going with this, Zach? I have no idea. I kinda forgot now what I
Speaker 2:was gonna say about that.
Speaker 3:I know it. Okay. Okay. My wife was making a really good joke. Okay?
Speaker 3:She was kinda making fun of me, and it was and it was really good. But she said something that was that was an untruth. Okay? Like, it was a it was a blatant untruth. Did she mean it?
Speaker 3:Absolutely not. But it was like a real zinger. And I went back later. This was this was what was interesting as I kinda kept doing my thing, and I was working on a thing, and and I thought, you know what? That untruth was said, and it's I kinda just felt like it was still kind of hanging out in the room.
Speaker 3:Okay? And I know I'm overthinking this, but I made it a point to go back to her, and I just said, hey. I just want to make it known that like that thing that was said and there was no meaning, so there was no power to it, but it still got said. I just want to speak against that untruth. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3:I might be a little oversensitive on this issue, but I think there's there's some listeners that are that are vibing with that as well, which is to say that again outside of outside of the meaning of it, just saying a thing is important. And just saying like speaking truth even when you're having a difficult time believing it in the moment but speaking it, there's a power there.
Speaker 2:I hear you. I hear you. That's good. As a mentor and as just a believer Mhmm. Anytime you hang out with someone and they speak things that aren't true about themselves, I feel like we have an opportunity there to correct them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'd say, no. No. No. No.
Speaker 2:No. No. That's not who you are. And is that awkward? Yes.
Speaker 2:Is it weird? Yes. Does it take some courage? Yes.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But, hey, man. Don't say that about yourself. Don't speak that over you. Yeah. It's not true.
Speaker 3:Well, even as you mentioned these three points that young Zach was dealing with. Right? Hey. I did something wrong. I'm unlovable.
Speaker 3:This is always gonna happen because it's always been happening. It always will to understand the importance of listen. You did nothing wrong. You are lovable, and this is more about me than it is about you. These are circumstances beyond your control.
Speaker 3:There there are even circumstances beyond my control or circumstances that I just know that it's right for me and for my family. And finally, listen. People will come and go. That that has no bearing on how much I love you. And so I used to say a thing, Zach.
Speaker 3:I did it a couple of times. Alright? Because as you know, I had been a professional Christian working in the church, doing youth ministry, working with teenagers, mentoring teenagers even. I found it to be a lot of power. Honestly, I don't know if I ever told you this, but instead of using terminology like Sunday school leader or even youth worker, I would have my workers understand and volunteers know that they were that they were mentors.
Speaker 3:So I actually used that terminology within the youth group because it wasn't about let me tell you why it was so important, Zach, because words matter. We know this. Right? I think that when we when we call it a Sunday school leader what am I doing? I'm telling you that you're effective as an adult in or a volunteer within this ministry only on Sunday mornings.
Speaker 3:I'm relegating your identity to the time that you teach. Right? Yeah. I don't like that idea.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:I want you to understand that what you're truly doing is you're mentoring, whether it be Sunday morning, Wednesday night, whether it be, you know, at the football games or whenever. You don't turn that on or off.
Speaker 2:That's an idea.
Speaker 3:Are you get are you getting how how important this is? Yeah. Okay. So the idea was something that I that I would share back to back to this point. Yeah.
Speaker 3:At times when it was time to kinda say, hey, youth group. Let's all get together. Listen. For some of you, this is good news, but but I got some bad news to share. The Lord is moving me on, moving to another ministry or or whatever, and it really was important for my students to know in that in that time that I shared something with them.
Speaker 3:I said, look, I may not be, you know, after tomorrow, I'm no longer your youth minister, but I am your friend. Get that? Beyond, dude. Beyond. It goes beyond the station to say, This relationship will will endure.
Speaker 3:You know? And you know this. Like, I've I still have friends that are that been I was in youth ministry for 20 years, and so these are people now that have had babies and careers and all this kind of stuff. You know, you go on Facebook and you're like, wait a minute. This person is now director of a thing.
Speaker 3:What what are they? There's you know, they're 14 years old.
Speaker 2:You're not on Facebook.
Speaker 3:Man, I'm on the Facebook big time. I've got a lot of really good political things to share with you. My gosh. Some memes.
Speaker 2:I can't believe you said that.
Speaker 3:By the way, if you don't send it to a certain number of people, I you know, it's on you.
Speaker 2:Alright. I think that we have finished up at this point. So Yes. It's a tough convo. We are in a broken world.
Speaker 2:But if we can prepare these kids for how the world works and if we can really let them know the truth that with the exception of your family and a couple friends, most people come and go seasons. Mhmm. But if we can prepare their heart for that truth, to know that it doesn't have anything to do with them, to know that god is faithful and that he will take care of them, and that even though titles might change, relationships, they're always there. They endure. They endure.
Speaker 3:This is a great topic.
Speaker 2:I think
Speaker 3:so too. Feel like we just kinda skimmed up, but I do think we've given it justice, but I think we can go on and on for sure.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I think I've kind of, I don't think I have anything else.
Speaker 3:You think you put it to bed? Yeah. Hey, you know, one idea, can I just give like a practical tool here as we, as we end up, let me give you another tool for your tool belt? Okay. Or your, or your toolkit.
Speaker 3:One way that you can even deal with this issue of of our mentees' feelings and how they're going to deal with when it comes time to to maybe end that formal relationship, I would say it this way, Zac, empower from day 1. I think that if we empower our mentees from day 1 to know that they are not just someone who's who's receiving a service from us or or getting this thing and and someday we're gonna cut them off from it, I think the most important thing that we can do is have them understand that this is a really valuable relationship to us as well as the mentor. So let me tell you what that means. I think one exciting thing that we can do in our mentor mentee relationship is to as you've probably done a 100 times, Zach, you've probably said, hey. How can I pray for you?
Speaker 3:How can I be praying for you this week, you know, as we wrap up to our mentee? Think it would be pretty cool to be able to say, hey, man. There's something I'm kinda going going through right now. Would you mind praying for me? Because that shows them that you trust them, and it also gives you an a a really neat opportunity to just kind of share yourself and kinda share maybe what you're going through in that moment.
Speaker 3:And I think it really gives them a neat opportunity to think, oh, man. They're asking me to pray for them. You know, I was expecting them to tell to ask me what what you know, how they can pray for me, but but it really kind of puts the ball in their court and it really shows them right from the beginning, a really neat way to empower. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:I think it's great. I think that you're onto something. The more we can get away from your a issue to be fixed, I have all the answers. You don't, I know what I'm talking about. You don't any way that we can dispel that and just say, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:This is a relationship. And this is what a relationship is. This is what people who are in a healthy relationship do. It's two way. I think that's great.
Speaker 2:And gives them power, gives them worth, gives them value, gives them an identity, gives them a part to play.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And honestly, as a as a disciple, you know, it it shows them that, hey, I trust you with this thing. And I believe that God can do really do a great work as you lift me up or lift up this issue. So that's a that's a really great way to to establish something neat in the in the heart and the minds of our mentees.
Speaker 2:It's all about the heart, man. It's great. Alright. Well, thanks for enduring with us during this important conversation. We believe it's important at least.
Speaker 2:And we love you. We're here for you. We're praying for you. Dear Lord, be with these mentors. May they mentor effectively to advance your kingdom.
Speaker 2:Amen. Amen. And remember, John You can mentor. Let's
Speaker 3:not ever do that.
Speaker 2:No. That was good. That was good. Did you
Speaker 3:like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3:Bye. That's it for now on.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Bye.
Speaker 3:Bye.