00;00;00;00 - 00;00;20;08 Speaker 1 Hello everyone and welcome back to the Baldwin Co podcast. I'm DJ Johnson. I am the founder and CEO of Baldwin A Co. We are a bookstore and coffee shop down here located in New Orleans. Make sure to drop by whenever you're in the neighborhood, in the community. Feel free to make a special trip down. Definitely worth the time. 00;00;20;10 - 00;00;48;01 Speaker 1 And today on the show, we are diving into a conversation that's honestly more of a social session than a standard interview. We're talking about water. And not just, something that we drink, but as a force of nature, a survival in the in a mirror for black femininity. Our guest today, the absolute powerhouse poses who are rewriting how we look at our past and our future. 00;00;48;03 - 00;01;14;12 Speaker 1 We have Doctor Alexandra Jones. She is a seasoned archeology educator that is dedicated to empowering communities to the preservation and excavation of African-American history. During her In Conversation is Tara Roberts. She is a National Geographic explorer and storyteller whose work uncovers the lost stories of the transatlantic slave trade through the lens of 00;01;14;12 - 00;01;16;09 Speaker 1 archeology and 00;01;16;09 - 00;01;30;13 Speaker 1 using Terry's new memoir, written in the waters as a launch pad, these to unpack everything from the divine feminine to the gritty reality of environmental justice. 00;01;30;15 - 00;01;59;01 Speaker 1 They talk about water as a metaphor and how it represents flexibility, force and resilience of black women. They talk about the problem with heroes and why we need to ditch the lone hero narrative in favor of a collective care and community action. They also dive into healing to history and using ancestry as a way to disconnect from capitalist systems that are currently breaking our ecosystem. 00;01;59;04 - 00;02;24;08 Speaker 1 It was an amazing conversation. I think you truly enjoyed it. It's a call to arms for radical education and generational healing, and this one is for everyone who is tired of the status quo and ready to take a look at history, and particularly the environment. Very much a deeper and more spiritual lens. So let's get into it. As always, please like, please subscribe and please share at least one person you know. 00;02;24;13 - 00;02;27;03 Speaker 1 Enjoy. 00;02;30;09 - 00;02;39;03 Speaker 1 Hi. My name is Alexandria Jones. I'm an archeologist and also the president of the Society of Black Archeologists. 00;02;39;05 - 00;02;58;05 Speaker 3 Hi, my name is Tara Roberts. I am the author of written in the waters. Memoir of History, Home and Belonging. And I'm also a, National Geographic Explorer in residence. 00;02;58;08 - 00;02;59;10 Speaker 1 Well. 00;02;59;13 - 00;03;03;25 Speaker 4 It's wonderful to be here with you. Talking, chatting, catching up. 00;03;03;28 - 00;03;15;27 Speaker 1 Yeah. I the first time we ever met was in Saint Croix. It was around archeology. Yeah. Doing water? Yeah. I thought you were a phenomenal photographer. 00;03;15;29 - 00;03;18;29 Speaker 4 That's the joke. Wherever. 00;03;19;01 - 00;03;23;00 Speaker 1 It's on the returned author. 00;03;23;02 - 00;03;24;08 Speaker 4 I. 00;03;24;10 - 00;03;52;12 Speaker 1 In kind of reading your book and thinking about some of the things that we talked about, tonight. Your book features and focuses around water and that resonates with me a great deal. Just because of just thinking about our lives. Thinking about kind of the metaphor of water fluidity, flexibility, strength, the softness, the peace of all of that. 00;03;52;14 - 00;04;11;11 Speaker 1 For me, it's almost a metaphor for black women. And kind of our role in society and how we are all those things and, and more at the same time. And I just wanted to kind of throw that back at you and just what do you think? And you know what? Do you have that same vibe when you think about water? 00;04;11;12 - 00;04;18;25 Speaker 1 I mean, what is kind of your feel as we, think about what? I know you've spent a lot of time. Clearly. 00;04;18;26 - 00;04;21;00 Speaker 4 You wrote a whole book about. 00;04;21;00 - 00;04;25;24 Speaker 1 Water and, How so? I just kind of want to get your thoughts on that. 00;04;25;26 - 00;05;06;19 Speaker 3 Yeah. Oh my goodness. Water. It it brings up a lot in my mind. I'm glad you started there. First, and I'm curious to hear what you think about this, but I feel like perhaps we are moving into a new era and the water is ushering us there. I don't think it's an accident that so? Many people, I think, are being called to the water. 00;05;06;22 - 00;05;36;13 Speaker 3 Like there are more books that are coming out now that have a connection to the water. When I meet, scuba divers. Like, there's so many people who are interested in. And connecting with the water. I don't know if that makes any sense. Like, I'm not really being specific in the way that I'm saying that, but it does it. 00;05;36;15 - 00;06;05;24 Speaker 3 It feels like there's something new and something different that wasn't happening 20 years ago or ten years ago. And it's the ocean that it feels like people are being called to. So there's the work that I've been following, this work of diving with slave shipwrecks. But I'm also thinking of work by like Alexis Pauline Gumbs, who is doing healing work through the water. 00;06;05;27 - 00;06;27;16 Speaker 3 I'm thinking of more and more maritime archeologists that are showing up. There's something about the water that is happening, and I believe it's connected to sort of this divine feminine energy that is showing back up in the world, so that this is a long way to get back to this question of like, how does this connect to women and the water? 00;06;27;19 - 00;06;55;05 Speaker 3 But I wonder if there's something about the way that we move energy, like, is this a moment where our energy needs to be more fluid then more forceful? So there's something about water that's a metaphor. It's an example. It's something that we can use to really usher in a new way of being in the world. 00;06;55;08 - 00;06;56;24 Speaker 1 For me, I think it's deeper than that. 00;06;56;26 - 00;06;59;00 Speaker 3 Ooh. Deeper. Okay. 00;06;59;03 - 00;07;24;25 Speaker 1 I think at the core, water is life giving. It's what sustains life. And it's what brings life. It's what keeps life. And I think we've reached a point where, a lot of us have felt like we've been static. We we've been stuck. We're going into a time now where we need to, be a little bit more forceful. 00;07;24;27 - 00;07;43;12 Speaker 1 We're starting to see the writing on the wall. We're starting to see that, like many of my ancestors said, if you don't know your history, you're doomed to repeat it, and you're starting to see that repeat happen. And so I think when we talk about fluidity and force and resilience, I think that's what we see. 00;07;43;12 - 00;08;04;08 Speaker 1 It's coming up. So for me, part of it is very much metaphoric, but the other part is very real. It's life giving. We need to think about our life. How do we rejuvenate? How do we find our passion that we've lost? How do we get that back? And so I think that energy is starting to come back. Those conversations are starting to be had. 00;08;04;10 - 00;08;32;04 Speaker 1 We're starting to kind of, you know, galvanize. And it's almost how the wave comes. It comes in slow. And as high tide starting, it comes in big. And you know, and at the same time it also crashes over and big concerns. And so I think at some point we've had that we we felt like okay we're starting to be swallowed up and now we're starting to come together and we're saying okay look we're revving up. 00;08;32;07 - 00;08;50;09 Speaker 1 Revving up for a revolution and we're wrapping up for change. We're wrapping up because we don't want to do. And at some point we're going to get to that apex and we're going to take over and kind of pull through. We're going to bring life back to all that we think has died or is dying. And so that's what I think kind of about this moment. 00;08;50;09 - 00;09;16;19 Speaker 1 And water, is that it's that life that's starting to be, brought back and we're literally putting the seeds in the ground and we're starting to water it. And we're waiting for that sprout up to kind of come. But that is something that one we as women I think in a lot of ways, we have led the movement. 00;09;16;21 - 00;09;49;07 Speaker 1 We may not always get the credit for the movement. But we've birthed it in multiple ways. We've been behind it where the organizers of where the caregivers of where the ones that are feeding that are, you know, writing down, taking care, even, you know, supporting in a way that ensures the movement is forward. And I think what we've started to see, whether you're looking in social media, mass media, education right now, black women, the most educated people in the United States. 00;09;49;09 - 00;10;09;28 Speaker 1 If we start talking about the positions that we've been holding for the past year, we see more African-American women in positions of power. And so for me, what it's doing is it's birthing this new and ushering in this new moment of here we go again. We're going to have to come forward. And it's a movement that's slowly starting to come. 00;10;09;29 - 00;10;25;24 Speaker 1 So thinking kind of about that, that idea of water and watering and birthing and feeding and, you know, all of that kind of mixed in with that idea of the divine feminine, but also all that water represents and all that it brings. 00;10;26;12 - 00;10;39;10 Speaker 1 Water can completely destroy. Or it can bring forward. And so that's what I've been thinking about when we talk about water and where we're going and how it's about to take place or what's about to take place. 00;10;39;13 - 00;11;16;11 Speaker 3 That is so interesting. You say that a lot inside of that. Oh man. It's a lot to process and to unpack. But really powerful thoughts. I was thinking about something as you were talking and I know like your question was sort of it was focused around women and black women. And as you were talking, I was like, you know, to I think this divine feminine energy isn't necessarily gender based. 00;11;16;13 - 00;11;47;14 Speaker 3 Like, I think that there are men there, non-binary people who are leaning into this divine feminine energy as well, and who are approaching life, approaching the way that we deal with issues and problems in a new way. And that feels exciting. And I'm also thinking about like what you said around. The properties of the water as life giving. 00;11;47;16 - 00;12;13;16 Speaker 3 That that's you know, like what brought us and I think about how the oceans are dying. Like we are killing our oceans. It is a space that I don't know that black people are thinking so deeply about. Let's just say black people who are not connected to coastal areas are thinking so much because there are black people who are connected to coastal areas and they're absolutely thinking about the ocean. 00;12;13;18 - 00;12;22;10 Speaker 3 But this is a crucial resource, and we are killing it. So like, is that all connected? 00;12;22;12 - 00;12;46;13 Speaker 1 I also think cultural it's inefficient and capitalism and politics in the way that we're set up in Western worldviews versus, you know, indigenous views and other cultural views of the environment and sustainability and how we take care of and how we care for. So that idea of the divine feminine, how we care for that which is ours, which also sustains us. 00;12;47;14 - 00;13;12;10 Speaker 1 I think if we look at that and we look at worldviews versus the Western, which is it doesn't respect that. Yeah. It destroys, it consumes, it takes, but it doesn't also give back. There's no idea of reciprocity. That goes along with that. I think to me that also says a lot. I had a conversation, with my little sister and we went to Saint Croix for the first time. 00;13;12;11 - 00;13;31;17 Speaker 1 The summer. And her thing was like, oh my gosh, the water is so pretty, so blue. I can see my feet like. And I was like, that's because of the coral reef. It's cleaning the water. It's doing. We live in Baltimore and she's like the water, you know, it's Disney. I think when you go out to the beach and it's never. 00;13;31;23 - 00;13;54;00 Speaker 1 And I was like, that's the difference. The water isn't being clean. We aren't. And just that conversation about the environment and what sustains and taking her to actually see, okay, look, this is the Nature Conservancy. This is how they're helping nature in order to keep this, you know, beautiful and to keep the water looking like this. Versus we don't have this at home. 00;13;54;00 - 00;14;21;13 Speaker 1 We don't have this in our area. So those sorts of things just exposure too. So thinking about what are our kids exposed to and what are they taught at. Are we learning about environmental importance. Are we learning about the importance of our relationship to the earth. You know and how this is like giving you know, but in order for it to continue to give life, we also have to give back to that life and we have to sustain it. 00;14;21;15 - 00;14;52;04 Speaker 1 And so I think that goes back to knowledge bases now. And thinking about how are we lost connections and how cultural connections that have existed and how do we keep squashing those. You mean just thinking about, how indigenous people and how they're constantly they're trying to stop the pipelines from going through because it's destroying waterways. The fact that we just had a bill to protect drilling and then had somebody say, oh, I'ma get rid of that. 00;14;52;06 - 00;15;14;16 Speaker 1 When you have coastal communities, we're saying, no, we need this. So I think there's, there's a lot that goes into this conversation about water. There's a lot when we talk about our community and what are we being exposed to and what are we not learning. And for me it constantly goes back to what population is being the most educated. 00;15;14;18 - 00;15;37;26 Speaker 1 And what population now is coming back and trying to do that work of Reeducating and re putting that knowledge back into the community and to not continue to be so literal, but you still have the black woman who's constantly doing that. If we start thinking about the, Saturday schools that are now starting to pop up in different areas with Saturday schools. 00;15;37;29 - 00;15;51;19 Speaker 1 So in areas like Florida and Oklahoma where these being pushed out, you have people coming in who are teachers who are saying, okay, well, they're not going to teach in school, but we don't have Saturday school. What you know, on Saturday. 00;15;51;19 - 00;15;54;25 Speaker 3 I heard about, yes, this Saturday. Interesting. 00;15;54;26 - 00;16;13;03 Speaker 1 We're going to learn about our history, our heritage, those people doing that work. And it's not necessarily women, but it's members of the community who are doing that idea of we're going to feed our community. We're going to give life back. So just constantly thinking about, yeah, what does that energy bring? What the what's how do you see? 00;16;13;04 - 00;16;41;14 Speaker 3 Can I just say like, this is another manifestation of divine feminine energy. It's for community based work which takes us really square into the work that you do with community archeology, like it's collective work. You know, like we live in this world where there's a thought that like one leader, one person is going to is going to do all the things. 00;16;41;17 - 00;17;06;23 Speaker 3 But in a democracy, it's not about one person. It's really all the people realizing their power. And they do have power, and it's an exercise in our power and pushing it forward. So this idea of the community, like you got one person, two people, three people, five people, 20 people, 100 people, 2000 people, a million people saying, no, this is what we want, and this is what we're going to stand for. 00;17;06;26 - 00;17;30;04 Speaker 1 But also working collectively. Yes. And I think that's that's what we keep missing is this, this I care for. So when you talk about the feminine energy, when you talk about that caring, that taking care of it doesn't, and I sometimes wonder, does it get lost in words? Because when we use feminine it is constantly thought of woman first. 00;17;30;06 - 00;17;42;04 Speaker 1 But to care for, to nurture, to birth, to give, rise to also is all encompassed in that word. And that's not something we innately think of when we think of collectively. 00;17;42;07 - 00;17;49;03 Speaker 3 Or we just don't value it. Like maybe we do think of it, but we're like, yeah, it's not so important. But it is. Yeah, absolutely. 00;17;49;03 - 00;17;55;10 Speaker 1 Yeah, it absolutely is important. And just just cooperative. 00;17;56;17 - 00;18;17;02 Speaker 1 Thinking about kind of different principles of cooperative economics. I mean, we could go back to Kwanzaa we just came out of. So it's like it's, you know, like collective unity, all of these things having a purpose, you know, being creative, being critical thinkers, all of those things come together. But it can't be birth and it can't come from one person. 00;18;17;03 - 00;18;26;25 Speaker 1 Yeah. It takes a union. Yes. And then once that union is made, it takes for people to to look out for and to nurture and to kind of make it come to fruition. 00;18;26;25 - 00;18;27;24 Speaker 3 And yes. 00;18;27;26 - 00;18;30;10 Speaker 1 That's what I think we're missing. Yeah. 00;18;30;13 - 00;18;53;17 Speaker 3 But, you know, it is showing up in different sectors. In the social entrepreneurial sector, there's a new emphasis and sort of a new term, which maybe it's not so new anymore. It's been, you know, a minute, but I don't know that this is like living in the rest of, the world. But it's this term around systems change. 00;18;53;20 - 00;19;21;02 Speaker 3 Like there's been a focus. I think it's very American to focus on individual heroes and to go, The hero comes in and changes everything. That is not the way that change works. The way that change works is it takes a it takes many actors within a system to come together, to cohere around a particular idea and to begin to change it. 00;19;21;04 - 00;19;43;29 Speaker 3 You need the businesses unique government. You need individuals. You need activist like you need all of these people working in concert together. So perhaps that idea is taking more root. Like, I guess my question back to you is, do you feel hopeful? Do you feel like we're in we're moving in the right direction and that something is changing? 00;19;44;01 - 00;19;45;15 Speaker 3 Oh. 00;19;45;18 - 00;20;10;03 Speaker 1 Yes. Enough. As somebody who runs business and who does in my business is based around community activists work, I do see people coming together. I do see people working together. What I often still see is, I think there needs to be more of a mindset, mindset shift what I read. 00;20;10;08 - 00;20;10;28 Speaker 3 What. 00;20;11;00 - 00;20;12;29 Speaker 1 People are still waiting for. One person. 00;20;13;01 - 00;20;14;22 Speaker 3 They are. So you think they are still waiting? Yes. 00;20;14;28 - 00;20;20;17 Speaker 1 People want permission. And that's the, It's very interesting because I had a number of clients actually. 00;20;20;17 - 00;20;22;07 Speaker 3 Think that's true. 00;20;22;09 - 00;20;35;08 Speaker 1 People are waiting for permission to break the system. It's like they want to. There's murmurs of. But it's almost, I mean, what I thought about doing it, but what's the word for tear down? 00;20;35;10 - 00;20;41;06 Speaker 4 Let's do it. If we don't do it, let's do it. Like, let's stop thinking about it. I'll do it with you. 00;20;41;10 - 00;20;51;04 Speaker 1 And it's almost like, either they're waiting for permission or. Oh, you'll do it with me. Okay. If you. I'll jump in with you. Like, if you're going to do it, I'm gonna do it. So it's, it's it's. 00;20;51;07 - 00;21;10;26 Speaker 3 Wait. I have to tell. Is that, like, do you think that that is something that is true in the black community, or do you think that is society? Because I again, coming from this social, entrepreneurial world, it's all kinds of changemakers who are like, I got an idea, I'm gonna get a grant and I'm gonna do this in the community, or I must have this business that does this thing. 00;21;10;29 - 00;21;13;19 Speaker 3 I see people stepping out. They are people. 00;21;13;19 - 00;21;41;13 Speaker 1 But you have to have that knowledge base to step out. But I think the one thing I, and I mean, depends on what community you're looking at. I think the one thing at least in which I'm working in, it's still this like, well, I would like to do this, but how do I do it? And so there's still kind of if you want to say from a permission, it's still this idea of, well, I've been thinking about this for a long time, about how I do it. 00;21;41;16 - 00;21;49;27 Speaker 1 And so I need to sit down with somebody I know. You sure. And is this the way that you. Whereas I feel like. Yeah. And I think it's also a generational thing. 00;21;49;27 - 00;21;52;09 Speaker 3 I was about to say. What is the community that you're talking about? 00;21;52;10 - 00;22;04;13 Speaker 1 I think it's a generational I think our age group, we we've grown up with Google eight, and I'm being honest, most of us are like, wow, I know how to. 00;22;04;16 - 00;22;06;01 Speaker 3 Pop a Google. Yeah. 00;22;06;01 - 00;22;14;28 Speaker 1 And how do I start a business? And we'll do it. But I think we've been more empowered to go out that way. I think you have older generations that are still. 00;22;15;03 - 00;22;17;13 Speaker 3 So you're talking about an older generation. Okay. 00;22;17;13 - 00;22;42;06 Speaker 1 So it's still kind of okay. All right. Well, wait, you know, and they're in that it's a weird generational shift where they came up during the time thinking about my mother's generation, my great aunt, where it was like, okay, we had our own and we had our own and we just kept it to. Whereas we're like, now we back to doing that, to do it for the people. 00;22;42;08 - 00;22;55;05 Speaker 1 Everybody's going to know, and you're going to support and you're going to help them. And kind of, I'm not just trying to limited it to my community. I'm doing it for everybody. And kind of looking at that. 00;22;55;08 - 00;23;17;17 Speaker 3 And yeah, I hear you, it does feel like starting with, I mean, I, I don't I'm not trying to say that, you know, baby boomers aren't given the thing, but it does feel like there's been a difference starting sort of with generation X. And then you go to the millennials, the generation Z, like there is an empowered, I think, sense that I can make change, I can do something. 00;23;17;17 - 00;23;25;01 Speaker 3 And especially when you think about social media, you can have a platform, you can have your own voice. There's a whole world of influencers. What is that? 00;23;25;01 - 00;23;27;16 Speaker 4 But like a lot of people. 00;23;27;18 - 00;23;30;29 Speaker 3 You know, like are leaning into being that. 00;23;31;02 - 00;23;51;12 Speaker 1 And I think there's two manifests we'd very much benefit from the generation that came before us. They told us we could do anything. They set us up that, you know, education, everything you wanted, you could have. And we sacrificed so you could have. And definitely I very much thank my mom. I grew up in the household with you. 00;23;51;12 - 00;23;55;04 Speaker 1 You don't need anybody. You don't need anything. You are a princess. 00;23;55;04 - 00;23;58;03 Speaker 4 You're beautiful. You you you are smart. 00;23;58;03 - 00;24;18;13 Speaker 1 You are like all of those affirmations that, you know, we jokingly see people say on social media like, you should say this in America, I literally grew up with my mom saying it every day. Well, and so having such a strong base told me that no matter which one do you can do that gave me when I came out like, all right. 00;24;18;16 - 00;24;40;15 Speaker 1 And then being on the cusp of, okay, well, you sent me to a HBCU on top of that. And so I got definitely I'm black and I'm proud of it. And then ushered into as a young adult, this is when the age of internet comes out. And now, oh, anything I want to learn how to do, I can Google it and I can start. 00;24;40;18 - 00;24;59;12 Speaker 1 So I started on my own. I didn't have a community, but I was told I didn't need a community. If you want to, do you pull up your bootstraps as a person? Growing up I was told I got to be five times better than everybody else because I'm a black woman and that's what I roll with. And it's not take hard work, perseverance, and it's done by myself. 00;24;59;14 - 00;25;02;07 Speaker 1 And so I think the younger team, what. 00;25;02;07 - 00;25;21;23 Speaker 3 Do you teach? So do you have children? I don't. Okay, okay. Will you do you have like a community of children that you teach. So what are you giving them that's different? From what? Or that's amplified or that's like part, you know, leveled up from what your parents gave you? 00;25;21;26 - 00;25;24;17 Speaker 1 I mean, you can do anything you want. 00;25;24;18 - 00;25;25;19 Speaker 3 That's what you. But that's what. 00;25;25;19 - 00;25;26;12 Speaker 1 There's no family. 00;25;26;13 - 00;25;27;12 Speaker 3 So is there. 00;25;27;14 - 00;25;48;28 Speaker 1 I think for me, I'm constantly there's no selling. I think weave in. Everybody is like, you know that there is no limit. It's an imaginary box that was created. This is a social construct. You can do whatever you want. You be whomever you want. You can demand whatever you want as long as you work hard for it. You can have it there is no limit. 00;25;49;00 - 00;26;08;28 Speaker 3 All right. So then I got a I believe that and I got to push back on that for second because that is such that is the myth of America. And it is true on one level that an individual can achieve anything. But then when we look collectively. 00;26;09;00 - 00;26;22;07 Speaker 3 Like that's not necessarily true. There are systemic barriers and obstacles that are in place for certain groups that do prohibit their movement. So I'm really curious, like how do you reconcile the two in your mind? 00;26;22;10 - 00;26;26;03 Speaker 1 I protect that which is coming up under me. I feel so. 00;26;26;07 - 00;26;27;20 Speaker 3 Focused on the individual still. 00;26;27;27 - 00;26;53;08 Speaker 1 Yeah. I and I think because I'm based in education and community education, I also know that I grew up and I hit a bunch of walls and I it hurt. And we go around it. Yeah. Because again, the only thing that's stopping me is me. You can't stop me. You can try. But, you know, I'm. I hit the high as me real quick. 00;26;53;09 - 00;26;54;16 Speaker 1 And I'm a pivot and. 00;26;54;19 - 00;26;59;10 Speaker 4 I'm, I hit the hood I saw that and. Yes. And I'm gonna go around and I'm, you know. 00;26;59;10 - 00;27;15;08 Speaker 1 I'm a black you for blocking me. Yeah. And find a way. And what I've now done is made a way for the next generation. And I'm very intentional about that. You had a problem. Come to me if you want to talk to some kind of me, I'm gonna help you talk to. If you want to do something, come to me. 00;27;15;15 - 00;27;35;10 Speaker 1 I'm going to help you get it done. And so I think that's the difference. My mom didn't have the ability to make things happen. And I think that idea of reaching down and helping up, I take it very seriously. And I think that's the difference you asked me about. What's the difference between what my parents did? That's the difference. 00;27;36;13 - 00;27;57;17 Speaker 1 I made a way out of no way. And I've made a way where no one I own everything. You can't stop me. So as such now that I have a certain amount of freedom I do the same. I'm, I bring everybody up with me and you going to be up under my umbrella and I'm gonna help you and I'm gonna protect you because I don't want you going through the same thing I had to go through. 00;27;57;19 - 00;28;11;03 Speaker 1 And so that's how we're doing it. It's individuate individualistic, but it's also community and that it's not 1 or 2 people. I got an open door policy, like, you can come to me and bring your friend. 00;28;11;05 - 00;28;11;26 Speaker 4 Like, right. 00;28;11;29 - 00;28;13;10 Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, I want to meet Doctor Jones. 00;28;13;10 - 00;28;14;27 Speaker 3 And yeah, they are. 00;28;14;27 - 00;28;23;20 Speaker 1 So what can you help them in? It's a classroom of kids and you all have the same policy, you know. You know. So that's how I've done it. 00;28;23;22 - 00;28;51;03 Speaker 3 Yeah. I'm thinking a little bit about the people who are growing up in households without, positive reinforcement, who are growing up in dangerous situations. And, like, I just don't judge me, okay? Please don't touch me. But I just watched, the rhythm and flow. Netflix. Reality show. You see this? And it's so. 00;28;51;03 - 00;28;52;24 Speaker 1 So that's why I can't judge you. 00;28;52;26 - 00;29;03;04 Speaker 3 And I don't like, you know, I don't I'm not like, I enjoyed watching it very much, but it's, It's a reality show where people are trying to become rappers. 00;29;03;07 - 00;29;03;28 Speaker 1 Okay. 00;29;04;01 - 00;29;13;04 Speaker 3 So they have judges and they, you know, spit their rhymes and write their runs and pick a judge. Tell them. 00;29;13;06 - 00;29;55;07 Speaker 3 Everybody in this season, you know, they do the little backstories. I mean, the backstories were heartbreaking. You know, there's a generation of black folks right now that are coming of age who are children of the crack epidemic. Do you know that their parents were sent away? Their parents were dealing with addictions, dealing with violence, like the the stories of people who, you know, they're living on the streets. 00;29;55;09 - 00;30;37;18 Speaker 3 Mom is in jail, dad. It just people selling drugs to get money. Come in, in the house. When you think about the, The stories that they have of themselves or the mindsets that they're growing up inside of. Like, it's, you know. And so I think, like part of my approach as a storyteller has been around, how do we change the narrative of who we are. 00;30;37;21 - 00;31;02;09 Speaker 3 How do we work collectively to have a different origin story. And if we had a different origin story with that, have us make different decisions. So keep thinking about that and I keep thinking about changing the system. So I love that you are educating people direct and looking inside of your community and being like, I'm going to lift you up. 00;31;02;09 - 00;31;24;00 Speaker 3 I'm going to lift you up. I'm going to make a space that lifts us all up. I am thinking about that invisible system and how do we how do we shift that? And I think that there is, I mean, there are all kinds of ways to approach it, but the way that I think I'm approaching it is through this narrative change. 00;31;24;00 - 00;31;48;15 Speaker 3 And that's why this work around history, around understanding the complexity and the fullness of who we are. We are not a minority in the world, but we have bought into this idea that we are minority easier and that we are smaller than, you know, like, again, if we know differently, then there's that begin to change who you think you are inside. 00;31;48;17 - 00;31;58;12 Speaker 3 If you don't have the sort of positive reinforcement it's around you. And that is not a question to look, you know what I mean? But this is. 00;31;58;12 - 00;32;00;03 Speaker 1 Like just but because. 00;32;00;03 - 00;32;03;10 Speaker 3 It's complicated, you know, like. 00;32;03;12 - 00;32;26;17 Speaker 1 So I and I think for me, I always go back from an educators perspective. Yes. You could try and change the system. You're I mean, massive you're, you're thinking about and you're talking about something that would actually require generations of fixing and, and to take it one step further, you're talking about those who are coming up with crack. 00;32;26;19 - 00;32;50;15 Speaker 1 I'm thinking about what I call my Covid babies. How many of our children's parents died, grandparents died and are no longer here. Those children are living in homes now without parents who are being raised by cousins or aunts or other family members. They may not necessarily want them. So we don't even have to go that far back. We can look at what's happening right now with our crime rates triple. 00;32;50;18 - 00;33;14;04 Speaker 1 We're talking about cutting welfare. Kids don't have services already. The education system has been depleted. Teachers are tired. So all of what you're talking about, we're actually living through right now and are watching in real life manifest. These babies are now being raised. They're now growing up. They've missed out on social. There's some who have social anxiety, who can't talk with people. 00;33;14;06 - 00;33;32;22 Speaker 1 And then we keep complaining about why do we see this crime. This is where I think representation comes in. This is where I think education comes in. This is where I think working in our communities, because right now we get a generation that needs us, and most of us are too concerned with other things that we haven't stopped to see. 00;33;32;25 - 00;33;54;07 Speaker 1 If we don't start helping this current generation that's in high school, that's in college, that's in middle school, where everything we are saying that we saw with the crack epidemic, whether you want to talk about the 80s and 90s is right now, it's in real time. So we can't change the system. We can. Covid wasn't a systematic per se thing. 00;33;54;07 - 00;33;57;11 Speaker 1 It was an environmental thing that happened that in. 00;33;57;15 - 00;34;06;04 Speaker 3 But it's an environmental thing that impacted this community because of the systems that are in place. We got to like and it's like, I mean, I get it. 00;34;06;06 - 00;34;15;05 Speaker 1 But even my thing is, if we keep pushing high level and don't come down to the micro, how do we fix it? And I get I agree, but. 00;34;15;05 - 00;34;21;03 Speaker 3 I would I would argue that we got to do both. It's not an either or. It's not a binary situation. 00;34;21;03 - 00;34;21;21 Speaker 1 I totally we. 00;34;21;21 - 00;34;49;22 Speaker 3 Need people on the ground level and we need people at the medium level where maybe they're not changing the whole system, but they're changing the system in their community. Maybe they're people who are changing the system nationally, and maybe there are people who are changing the system globally at all kinds of different touch points as well through religion, through politics, through economics, through, you know, like all the things I got to be working at all the levels. 00;34;49;22 - 00;34;49;28 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00;34;50;04 - 00;34;52;29 Speaker 1 But in order to do that, we got to get everybody on the same page. 00;34;53;02 - 00;34;53;10 Speaker 3 Don't we? 00;34;53;10 - 00;35;10;16 Speaker 1 Don't we do we have to we have to. You need to have your business. You need to you need to start your company. You need to because we need children to be able to go into your stores and see business owners that look like we need you to go into politics. Why? Because we need children to see that they can be politicians, that they can be mayors. 00;35;10;16 - 00;35;20;03 Speaker 1 That being governors, we need people to go. We need everybody to actually seek and go after their full potential. And the reason being is. 00;35;20;03 - 00;35;26;20 Speaker 3 So when you say the same page, you're talking about the same page that we can reach out for our full potential. Yes. Okay. 00;35;26;22 - 00;35;34;10 Speaker 1 Okay. I think that even if you don't have it at home, you can walk outside and you can see teachers. 00;35;34;11 - 00;35;34;26 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00;35;34;29 - 00;35;52;26 Speaker 1 You can go to the corner store and see that it's owned by somebody who looks like you. You can go into places and not be judged, thought about as a criminal or anything else. You can have somebody who sees you acting up and is not scared to yell out the window at you, because I heard you, cousin, bring it back. 00;35;52;28 - 00;36;12;28 Speaker 1 We need that back and I think we've fallen too far from it. And what's even more interesting to me, and again, I know I'm always focused on the youth, but I'm like if we don't catch them before they get wrong it's too late. And not that I don't think we can't change them but we want them to be positive citizens. 00;36;12;28 - 00;36;18;29 Speaker 1 We want them to move on, we want them to impact and do. Once you get older it's a little harder. 00;36;19;02 - 00;36;19;16 Speaker 3 Okay. 00;36;19;23 - 00;36;28;18 Speaker 1 Do you know anything about your own journey and how you, you know in the book talked about like okay I was a little scared and I was you know when you're young. 00;36;28;22 - 00;36;30;02 Speaker 3 You're just like I did. 00;36;30;02 - 00;36;33;15 Speaker 1 Oh yeah. Invincible. Yes. Yes. And if I show you you can do it and you want. 00;36;33;15 - 00;36;38;16 Speaker 4 To do it, I am going to dive right now and jump into the water. Right. 00;36;38;19 - 00;36;41;12 Speaker 3 No training, no nothing. Okay, I guess I'll I need. 00;36;41;12 - 00;37;02;24 Speaker 1 Two more years to think about if I want to do so. That's why. Okay, for me, I focus on that part just a little bit more. Yeah. But I do think we're at a pivotal moment. And if we don't come to that point where everybody starts saying this is important, we, we of we gotta start to think about community and itself anymore. 00;37;02;24 - 00;37;24;11 Speaker 1 And I also think that is very much a Western idea to be individualistic. Yeah. And we have to get out of that model and we have to move away from that to the collective to the community and understanding that there's strength in numbers. Yeah. And it means all of us got to come together, and all of us need to stop fearing and thinking about just, oh, am I going to make it will. 00;37;24;11 - 00;37;29;01 Speaker 1 I can't think about nobody else because and you, you find it. 00;37;29;03 - 00;37;32;23 Speaker 4 Come on. You could just just. 00;37;32;25 - 00;37;41;09 Speaker 1 Just achieve just be your best self and be nice and being neighborly and care home. Going back to that giving life care a little bit. 00;37;41;09 - 00;38;09;15 Speaker 3 And I think you're bringing it back to the department and the feminine, which is a powerful energy. I would just add that I think, part of the answer to is us looking beyond the borders of the United States. I think it's really time for us to consider ourselves and this world as a global world. I again, I am like a sci fi fantasy person. 00;38;09;17 - 00;38;34;14 Speaker 3 I love me some Star Trek and I think I'm such a turkey. And I love that the, you know, Star Trek, the planet Earth is one thing. Like there are no borders inside of it. It's, you know, like, yeah, what happens if we begin to see ourselves in a global manner? I think that that also changes everything. 00;38;34;17 - 00;38;47;03 Speaker 1 I agree, I, I'm going to say that I, I it, it's the opposite side of the sci fi. So I am very much an apocalyptic zombie, okay. And I love how we come together as people. 00;38;47;10 - 00;38;47;28 Speaker 3 When there's. 00;38;47;28 - 00;38;53;29 Speaker 4 We're all threatened by there's no borders anymore. You are you everybody come together. I don't care about class. 00;38;53;29 - 00;38;54;14 Speaker 1 You don't care. 00;38;54;14 - 00;38;56;12 Speaker 4 About race, gender. 00;38;56;12 - 00;38;57;02 Speaker 3 You just care about. 00;38;57;02 - 00;39;03;16 Speaker 4 Killing a zombie. It's getting to where it's not being eaten. It's again, it's that collective moment. It's. 00;39;03;18 - 00;39;11;16 Speaker 1 I've literally cried in movies when I've seen people who would never get along come together and like, oh my God, no, they survived in life. 00;39;11;18 - 00;39;20;15 Speaker 3 I just like today, I am Legend was on and I was like, and then, what is it, World War Z? Yes, that came on to. 00;39;20;17 - 00;39;20;29 Speaker 4 I'm like. 00;39;20;29 - 00;39;24;17 Speaker 3 Okay, society, I hear you. That does bring people together. 00;39;24;17 - 00;39;35;24 Speaker 1 Disaster does. But I but I also hate that it's disaster. And I thinking about what we're happening. I almost feel like we're headed to that point. Our environment is being pushed to the tip. 00;39;35;27 - 00;39;36;18 Speaker 3 Yeah. 00;39;36;21 - 00;40;00;24 Speaker 1 We're in environmental crisis. Just the wildfires, the Surinamese, the hurricane, the snow. We're in a plane that we're being pushed to the tip where I'm like, okay, this is that point where we're going to have to start to come together. And if this doesn't push us together, like, what will it take for us to finally stop and say as a collective community, we need to be concerned when to stop arming? 00;40;00;24 - 00;40;03;18 Speaker 3 Yeah. The earth harming everything around us. 00;40;03;21 - 00;40;05;13 Speaker 1 Come together. Yeah, yeah. 00;40;05;16 - 00;40;06;11 Speaker 3 I hear you. 00;40;06;11 - 00;40;11;16 Speaker 1 Thank you so much for having this conversation with me tonight. This is an amazing. Yeah. 00;40;11;18 - 00;40;18;28 Speaker 3 It's been a little a little, but also a little, yes, yes. 00;40;19;01 - 00;40;21;15 Speaker 4 Yes, yes. 00;40;21;17 - 00;40;28;25 Speaker 1 So I appreciate it, as always. It's it's wonderful communing with you. And just just chopping it up and. Yeah. Meeting of the minds. 00;40;28;25 - 00;40;45;24 Speaker 3 Yes. Likewise. I really appreciate all your thoughts, some of which are going to make me go home and think about them some more. Yes. And I love that we can talk about these kinds of things. So thank you for the work that you're doing in the world. And thank you for sitting here with me tonight and talking. 00;40;45;29 - 00;40;47;18 Speaker 1 Yeah, I appreciate it. 00;40;47;18 - 00;41;15;04 Speaker 1 Thank you for spending time with us and for being a part of the Baldwin Co community. Every listen helps to keep the conversation alive. So thank you for listening. And if you believe in the work that we're doing, building literacy, nurturing curiosity and investing in our city, please, please, please consider supporting to the Bone and Co Foundation. You can go on to that Bco foundation at org. 00;41;15;04 - 00;41;34;24 Speaker 1 You can make a donation or you can just go to WW Baldwin or call books.com. You can follow us on our socials just at Baldwin and Company. So make sure you follow us. Check us out, subscribe. If you want to watch the video portion of this podcast and all of our podcasts, definitely check out our YouTube channel. 00;41;34;25 - 00;41;56;04 Speaker 1 It's just Baldwin and co on YouTube. Put it in the search and it'll come right up. So thank you so much. Please. Your donations, a few, programs that open doors our kids and our neighborhoods. And, when you're ready for your next great read, make sure to visit us online at Baldwin and Co. Every book you buy to help us just keep the movement going. 00;41;56;09 - 00;42;14;19 Speaker 1 If you're in New Orleans, make sure to stop by. Our address is 1030 Legion Fields Avenue. Come by and check us out. Get a good book, hang with us, get a good cup of coffee, and, look forward to seeing you. Have a good one.