Ellie: Ellie: Hi everyone,
Ellie: I'm APM Ambassador Ellie Cole and today we will be discussing visual impairment
Ellie: and the vital role of accessibility in both in employment and in everyday life.
Ellie: I'm so delighted to introduce you to today's guest Ayesha and her beautiful
Ellie: seeing eye dog, Princess, and together we're going to explore the unique barriers
Ellie: faced by individuals with visual impairments in the workplace and discuss
Ellie: practical steps that employers can take to create more inclusive environments.
Ellie: We'll also touch on the importance of community support and awareness
Ellie: in making public spaces accessible for everyone.
Ellie: Ayesha, thank you so much for joining us today
Ellie: and bringing along a very special guest as well.
Ellie: Princess, who is still awake but I don't think will be by the end,
Ellie: not because of the content of the conversation,
Ellie: because it's a very relaxing environment to be in.
Ellie: Are you able to introduce your name, your age and your role at APM?
Ayesha: Ayesha: So my name is Ayesha Patterson.
Ayesha: I'm 32 and I'm a LAC Community
Ayesha: Capacity Builder at APM Communities.
Ellie: Ellie: Now tell us about where you grew up.
Ayesha: Ayesha: I grew up in Mandurah, which is south of Perth.
Ayesha: Lived there my whole life and I still live there.
Ayesha: It's great because you can be close to Perth
Ayesha: to get to and from, but you're not in the city.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah. And what was it like growing up there?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Everyone knows everyone so,
Ayesha: and you kind of have that environment now,
Ayesha: with my work, people come in and are like “hi, Ayesha” and they go, “how do you know that person?”
Ayesha: I'm like, “oh, you know went to high school with them or, did some community work with them.”
Ayesha: Which is kind of cool.
Ellie: Ellie: And, tell me about what it was like going to school in Mandurah.
Ellie: Did you go to a school that helped you
Ellie: with your vision impairment or what was your schooling like?
Ayesha: Ayesha: My schooling, I went to a private school.
Ayesha: But I didn't advertise that I had disability.
Ayesha: I had very good vision at the time that I thought,
Ayesha: but even though I could hardly see anything,
Ayesha: and I just wasn't accepting of the disability, it took me a while to accept.
Ayesha: So I wore magnifying glasses because glasses were cool.
Ellie: Ellie: Glasses were cool?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah.
Ellie: Ellie: That's a bit backwards from what I grew up with.
Ayesha: Ayesha: I know.
Ayesha: And I would borrow my friend's notes
Ayesha: and everything just so I could still do school and
Ayesha: I learned how to listen a lot.
Ayesha: Yeah, I didn't use any equipment
Ayesha: or anything until after high school.
Ellie: Ellie: So it sounds like when you were growing up, even with a disability, you really learned
Ellie: how to adapt to your surroundings very, very quickly and just to make things work.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah, I think it’s a really amazing skill to have,
Ellie: and I think a lot of people in the communities are really starting
Ellie: to identify a lot of the strengths that people with disabilities have.
Ellie: And, you know, there's so many stories like yours where you have difficulty
Ellie: navigating some things in everyday life, but you just happen to find a way around it.
Ellie: And it sounds like you had friends there that helping you with your notes.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah, they did, but that was my stubborn stage.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah. You mentioned before, it was a little better when you were younger?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah. So my vision has been getting worse as I've gotten older.
Ayesha: It will lead to complete blindness.
Ayesha: So the condition I have, the cells in my retina are dying.
Ayesha: So all the ones that are in charge of your peripheral vision,
Ayesha: night vision, color, depth.
Ayesha: And then I have cataracts over the top as well.
Ayesha: So that makes life interesting.
Ellie: Ellie: I bet it does.
Ellie: Do you have memory, when you were younger, of ever being able to see clearly, or is it
Ellie: something that has been degrading since you were a young child?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Before I was four so one of those random circumstances, I was bitten by a Redback (spider)
Ayesha: and I didn't get the anti-venom, and it caused the eye condition.
Ayesha: So before that, yeah, I can remember seeing stuff.
Ellie: Ellie: What was it like for you to grow up and go to school with a disability?
Ellie: You said that you were very good
Ellie: at camouflaging it for a while, but I'm sure the penny dropped eventually.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Oh, yes.
Ayesha: The penny did drop with a lot of people.
Ayesha: But I've just met up recently with a school reunion, and
Ayesha: I turned up there with my seeing eye dog, and they're like, really? You're blind? What?
Ayesha: We had no idea.
Ayesha: And then other people, like, yeah, we knew.
Ayesha: But yeah, it wasn't until after I left high school that I would, I actually,
Ayesha: you know, accepted my disability and said, stuff it, I don't care what people think.
Ayesha: And it was the best thing I ever did.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah, absolutely.
Ellie: I think, it's really empowering to get to that point as well.
Ellie: And I heard you mentioned before that
Ellie: it took you a while to accept having a disability yourself.
Ellie: Let alone sharing that information with the rest of the world, which,
Ellie: you know, you should only do so if you feel like you're in a comfortable
Ellie: and safe environment to be able to do that.
Ellie: So what was it like for you to,
Ellie: take the time and digest that information and come to terms with the fact
Ellie: that you did have a disability and come to terms
Ellie: with accepting that part of yourself as well.
Ayesha: Ayesha: It was the best thing I ever did.
Ayesha: And, you know, accepting that,
Ayesha: because now, like, everything
Ayesha: that's happened in my life is,
Ayesha: mainly because of I have a disability, which is great.
Ayesha: It's led to lots of opportunities,
Ayesha: and being able to share and empower and advocate for others has been great.
Ayesha: And also for myself.
Ellie: Ellie: What kind of opportunities are you speaking to you when you say that
Ellie: having a disability has led to a lot of opportunities in your life?
Ayesha: Ayesha: So it led to me to be able to travel around Australia
Ayesha: a lot, because I got to represent WA with sport.
Ellie: Ellie: Really? You're an athlete?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Past. I’m injured, so I don’t do sport now.
Ellie: Ellie: I can't believe you've waited 15 minutes to tell me you're an athlete.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah, so I used to do goalball and then tenpin bowling.
Ellie: Ellie: So how did you become involved in the goalball team?
Ellie: I know quite a few of the girls.
Ayesha: Ayesha: I was looking for something to do,
Ayesha: and a sport, something to keep me busy.
Ayesha: And this youth person, who’s in Blind Sports Australia, WA here.
Ayesha: Was like, we've got this sport,
Ayesha: we're looking for female people,
Ayesha: do you want to come and have a go?
Ayesha: And I went up to Perth and watched it
Ayesha: and I was hooked like straight away.
Ayesha: And then competed and represented WA
Ayesha: and all that from 2012 to 2015.
Ellie: Ellie: Incredible. Did you ever make the Australian team?
Ayesha: Ayesha: No, almost.
Ellie: Ellie: And then you became injured?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah.
Ellie: Ellie: I'm not surprised to hear that you became injured because
Ellie: from my experience playing goalball and from what I've seen, it is brutal.
Ayesha: Ayesha: It is. Ellie: Ellie: Absolutely brutal on your body.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah.
Ayesha: At the time, there was only 4 or 5 women, so we were competing
Ayesha: against the guys every training session, which was very chaotic.
Ayesha: And then yeah, took up tenpin bowling from 2016 to 2020.
Ellie: Ellie: As someone who had joined an inclusive sporting team in terms of goalball
Ellie: as well as your tenpin bowling, what was like that like for you
Ellie: to be able to step into a whole new community there based on sports?
Ayesha: Ayesha: It was amazing to people
Ayesha: to not think about disability because we all had different disabilities.
Ayesha: A lot of people would forget
Ayesha: they actually had a disability, which is awesome.
Ayesha: And then having the confidence in your coach to be able to say
Ayesha: you can compete against other people, it was really cool.
Ayesha: I found it really interesting.
Ellie: Ellie: Just then when you said a lot of people forget that they had a disability,
Ellie: because in my experience, I forget all the time.
Ellie: It's it's fascinating to have a difference or impairment,
Ellie: and it's almost like you yourself
Ellie: don't feel any differently until someone else tells you that you are.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah.
Ellie: Ellie: And so when you step into a team or a place that's really inclusive,
Ellie: no one's telling you that you are different.
Ellie: And it can be really empowering. Don’t you think?
Ayesha: Ayesha: It’s so empowering, yeah.
Ayesha: I find that with my role at APM as well,
Ayesha: being capacity builder, I'm making sure that the community is accessible
Ayesha: and also people with disabilities, they feel empowered and
Ayesha: I had someone come up to me last week, they had a full conversation with me,
Ayesha: and they never did that before, you know, 12 months ago, which was amazing.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah, that's really nice to hear.
Ellie: Now I see that you've brought Princess along here today.
Ellie: You have a seeing eye dog.
Ellie: What role does Princess play in your day-to-day life?
Ayesha: Ayesha: What doesn’t she do?
Ayesha: She's my sidekick.
Ellie: Ellie: She guided you in pretty well today.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah. She's my eyes. Literally.
Ayesha: If I didn't have her, I would be banging into stuff and,
Ayesha: she gives me a lot of independence to be able to get out and about.
Ellie: Ellie: What was your life like before Princess came into your life?
Ellie: What is it like now that she's in your life?
Ayesha: Ayesha: So there was a gap between
Ayesha: the two dogs because she's my second dog,
Ayesha: and I was on a waitlist for four years.
Ayesha: Between the two dogs and going from full independence,
Ayesha: having a dog to going back to my cane,
Ayesha: and having to relearn how to use a cane,
Ayesha: and then also having my eyesight,
Ayesha: you know, go down quite a lot in that space.
Ayesha: I noticed that I wasn't doing a lot of stuff, what I used to do.
Ayesha: I would rely heavily on friends and support just to be able to go out and about.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah. Ayesha: Ayesha: But now I can get on the bus and go to the shopping centre
Ayesha: and meet up with a friend for a coffee, or
Ayesha: go up to Perth for a favourite activity,
Ayesha: me or my friends would go to Fringe Festival.
Ayesha: So, you know, this year I was actually able to meet her at a
Ayesha: really nice place and go to the theatre which was great.
Ellie: Ellie: Walking throughout your community, accessing the communities,
Ellie: what’s some of the biggest challenges that you face, just in day-to-day living?
Ayesha: Ayesha: A lot of people try and pat her while I'm
Ayesha: giving commands or walking, which can distract her and me.
Ayesha: I call them ninja patters, because they just quickly put their
Ayesha: hand down and try and pat, and then they walk off.
Ayesha: So yeah, me, my friends, we call them ninja patters.
Ayesha: And then the other issues I have a lot is taxis and Ubers.
Ayesha: Unfortunately, a lot of them refuse.
Ayesha: I've had some try and put the dog in the boot of the car,
Ayesha: or they see the dog and they drive past,
Ayesha: which is it's always an ongoing
Ayesha: issue all over Australia, unfortunately,
Ayesha: refusals for taxis and Ubers.
Ellie: Ellie: I've heard of a lot of experiences and, and I've read a lot of,
Ellie: I've seen a lot of media about that as well.
Ellie: About people that use seeing eye dogs trying to access any kind of transport,
Ellie: and the difficulties that they face with that,
Ellie: and that can be really challenging and a huge barrier for people to be able
Ellie: to access communities as well.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yes, totally.
Ayesha: But buses and trains, they’re great, you know.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Or you find a really good taxi driver like I have at home, and he picks me up for work,
Ayesha: drops me off at home.
Ellie: Ellie: What about some of the challenges that you face day-to-day
Ellie: just living with a vision impairment?
Ayesha: Ayesha: I try and not look at it as challenges,
Ayesha: or limitations, like limits.
Ayesha: But I try to come away with solutions.
Ayesha: But the most frustrating thing is trying to find the right top or the right pair of shoes.
Ayesha: Normally I wear, multi-colored flats, Mary Jane shoes,
Ayesha: and the other day, my friend goes, you realise you're wearing
Ayesha: the two different shoes, and I'm like, oh, oopsies.
Ellie: Ellie: I'm sure she understands.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah, so we've run back into the house and, you know,
Ayesha: we found the other shoe, but it's just hilarious.
Ellie: Ellie: You know what?
Ellie: I've actually done that quite a few times myself
Ellie: because I don't have a vision impairment,
Ellie: but when I go to bed, I leave a shoe on my prosthetic.
Ellie: And then when I was an athlete, I used to wake up
Ellie: in the middle of the night almost to go to swimming training.
Ellie: So I would get change in the dark. So I guess it is similar.
Ellie: And because I already had a shoe on my foot, I would just grab
Ellie: what I thought would be the right shoe, and the amount of times
Ellie: I went to training with two different shoes on
Ellie: because I couldn't feel the difference in the shoes either,
Ellie: one of my feet was plastic, so it's quite common.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah.
Ellie: Ellie: What are the assumptions that people make about vision impairments that’s the most common,
Ellie: the most common things that you see people make assumptions about?
Ayesha: Ayesha: I think the biggest assumption is that they think that everyone
Ayesha: with vision impairment can read Braille, and I don't,
Ayesha: and a lot of people in the community actually don't read Braille.
Ayesha: Some a lot of people do, but not everyone.
Ellie: Ellie: When you were growing up, what was it like for you to be able to access employment?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Because I know in my community where I grew up in Victoria,
Ayesha: everybody wanted a job at the age of 14.
Ayesha: And, you know, it was
Ayesha: pretty difficult for me to even get a job with a physical impairment.
Ellie: Ellie: For you, what was it like trying to gain employment
Ellie: when you were able to enter the workforce?
Ayesha: Ayesha: It was so challenging. Yeah. It took me forever to get jobs.
Ayesha: And then I would have to go to TAFE, do all the qualifications,
Ayesha: and then you go and try to find a job, you put the interview in,
Ayesha: and then the biggest barrier was, do you have a driver's license?
Ayesha: So I'm like, no, why would I have a driver's license?
Ayesha: You don't want me driving?
Ayesha: And then as soon as you'd tick no, that would be it, you know?
Ayesha: And before APM I was working,
Ayesha: I was able to find casual employment for non-for-profits,
Ayesha: but a lot of the mainstream, event management work,
Ayesha: as soon as you turned up to the interview with a cane or seeing eye dog,
Ayesha: they would go nope, sorry, we've already filled the position or,
Ayesha: you know, you didn't have a driver's license,
Ayesha: so we've given it to the other person, even though we've done
Ayesha: the qualifications together, just really, really sad.
Ayesha: And having that knockback, it,
Ayesha: quite affected my mental health.
Ayesha: And it's also affected other people's mental health with,
Ayesha: you know, the whole applying for jobs.
Ayesha: But, I was lucky I managed to get a job
Ayesha: at APM Communities, through volunteering
Ayesha: and then customised employment, which has been great,
Ayesha: that the customised employment,
Ayesha: has come about.
Ayesha: There's a lot of people now with disabilities can actually get a job.
Ellie: Ellie: And these types of people that you're speaking about
Ellie: that have been able to secure employment
Ellie: through the customised employment that APM do.
Ellie: They're the people that you were speaking about before, who you know,
Ellie: were being knocked back for jobs and it was affecting their mental health.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah, well, I was able to get the job through customised employment.
Ayesha: And I've met two other people,
Ayesha: who have managed to get customised employment not just through APM, but other organisations.
Ayesha: It's been great.
Ellie: Ellie: So what was that process like for you to find APM
Ellie: and then to go through the customised employment to be able to secure a job.
Ellie: What was that process like, walk me through?
Ellie: How you found it, what it was like for you to go
Ellie: through that process, how you felt going through that process?
Ayesha: Ayesha: It was very exciting but daunting at the same time.
Ayesha: So I was volunteering on a project,
Ayesha: that runs
Ayesha: they wanted people with disabilities, to help run this project,
Ayesha: which I ended up overtaking and running it completely, which was amazing.
Ayesha: But so came into volunteering and then the community
Ayesha: capacity builder at the time, APM manager was like, are you looking?
Ayesha: I was talking to him and he said, oh, you're looking for a job?
Ayesha: And I said, yes, because the casual employment that I had,
Ayesha: you know, the grant had just run out.
Ayesha: He goes, oh, send me for your résumé and,
Ayesha: a list of your skills and experiences
Ayesha: and I sent him through, like, a three page, word document.
Ayesha: And he goes “how have you done all that in your whole life?”
Ayesha: And I was like, yeah.
Ayesha: Cause, you know, you volunteer and keep yourself busy.
Ayesha: He goes, oh, okay, I'll send it through
Ayesha: to some people and see if they're looking for anyone.
Ayesha: And the next minute I got a phone call from,
Ayesha: lovely lady Penny and Kerri.
Ellie: Ellie: How did that moment feel when, if you think back to a few years ago,
Ellie: fast forward to receiving that phone call
Ellie: two months after your interview and then being offered that role.
Ellie: Did that feel like so liberating for you?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Oh yeah, after I got the phone call I hung up and,
Ayesha: I did a little dance on the spot and it was full on wooing
Ayesha: and rang my mum straight away at work and she's like, I'm currently at work.
Ayesha: I'm like, “I got a job, I got a job”, but she's like, okay.
Ayesha: And you know, we went out and celebrated because it was the first time,
Ayesha: you know, someone had looked at
Ayesha: skills and experiences and created a job, which is amazing.
Ellie: Ellie: Yeah. It's incredible.
Ellie: When you just explained that you had done a little dance
Ellie: and that you were so excited, like I could just see in your body, then just
Ellie: how excited you were that feeling that you had.
Ellie: It must reinforce just how important it is for you
Ellie: to be able to provide that for other people through APM, right? Ayesha: Yes.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah, I, I'm very excited with what I do at APM,
Ayesha: and every day is different.
Ayesha: Probably the biggest achievement was last year.
Ayesha: City of Mandurah won the accessibility awards
Ayesha: and I was able to help them win those awards, which was amazing.
Ayesha: With all the work done to, with other people with disabilities,
Ayesha: to make the town and city more accessible.
Ayesha: It's incredibly empowering.
Ellie: Ellie: What kind of accommodations
Ellie: did APM make to the workplace in order for you
Ellie: to be able to flourish at work, if any?
Ayesha: Ayesha: So the biggest accommodation is that they made sure
Ayesha: I had enough desk space for me and Princess.
Ayesha: So we have a corner desk.
Ayesha: So I have one side of the desk and she has the other side.
Ayesha: So we're not running over her paws or banging into her.
Ayesha: Gave me a tour of the whole office, so I knew where everything was.
Ayesha: And then, so like if there's anything
Ayesha: you need, or we need to make more accessible.
Ayesha: So I put tactile markings on the microwave, so.
Ayesha: And the tea and the sugar and the coffee.
Ayesha: So that was really good that they let me just go in and tactile
Ayesha: the on and off power buttons for the microwave and,
Ayesha: made sure that I had a space where I can toilet Princess.
Ayesha: So I've got a screen reader, JAWS,
Ayesha: I had to learn how to use JAWS on my computer.
Ellie: Ellie: JAWS?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah. Ellie: Ellie: What is that?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Job Access with Speech.
Ayesha: Ayesha: It's a screen reader.
Ayesha: So if you opened up my work laptop, it would start talking to you straight away.
Ellie: Ellie: You've mentioned before, the independence that Princess has given you to your life.
Ellie: But how has employment changed your life?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Gives me a purpose to
Ayesha: get up and have a schedule instead of just lazing around and doing nothing,
Ayesha: or going. “Oh, I might do this today,” but actually,
Ayesha: I've got work, you know, three days a week.
Ayesha: It's been great to be able to also have the money
Ayesha: aspect as well, which has been great.
Ayesha: But yeah, having that set schedule and having a work
Ayesha: life balance has been amazing.
Ellie: Ellie: If a workplace, an organisation, a company want to make their place
Ellie: more inclusive for people with vision impairments, what are the
Ellie: the things that they need to be considering?
Ayesha: Ayesha: So one of the easiest things would be, you know,
Ayesha: if someone walks into your workplace, actually introduce yourself instead of
Ayesha: just assuming that they know what they're doing
Ayesha: or if they are actually in the right building.
Ayesha: And there's been a few times where I've gone, is this the right building?
Ayesha: And saying
Ayesha: a person like, you know, hello, I'm so-and-so.
Ayesha: Instead of just started talking automatically.
Ayesha: So I've been a few times where someone will come up to me.
Ayesha: I have no idea who they are, but I've just continued talking.
Ayesha: And then my friend goes, do you know who I am?
Ayesha: I have no idea.
Ayesha: And just voicing directions,
Ayesha: a lot of people gesture or say, oh, this way, that way.
Ayesha: But I think having specific directions and
Ayesha: allowing the person to get lost if they need to,
Ayesha: sometimes getting lost is the best way to find your way unfortunately.
Ellie: Ellie: It's also a great metaphor for life.
Ayesha: Ayesha: And yeah, just don't assume like, a person might walk in with vision impairment,
Ayesha: but they might be having a good day and they might be able to see you or,
Ayesha: they might be having a bad day.
Ayesha: Or they might have different fields of vision.
Ayesha: So they might be looking away from you, but they're actually seeing you.
Ellie: Ellie: So if you were to live in a perfect world where it was completely accessible
Ellie: for you,
Ellie: I'm thinking about what communities can do better to support
Ellie: others with vision impairments.
Ellie: What would a perfect community look like for you?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Perfect community.
Ayesha: Something where you can go into somewhere that's fully accessible.
Ayesha: Not many people are going to stare at you or go, you know, you have a disability.
Ayesha: What are you doing here?
Ayesha: Because that still happens.
Ellie: Ellie: So a lot of cultural change?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah, a lot of culture change,
Ayesha: and yeah, we’re really good with the infrastructure changing.
Ayesha: But I think yeah, a lot of attitude and culture I think needs to change.
Ayesha: To make it not for just people
Ayesha: with vision impairment, but anyone with a disability,
Ayesha: and you would find that too.
Ellie: Ellie: I do. But do you find it’s changing for the better?
Ellie: The more that people are becoming aware and educated around disability?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Yeah. You know, and I think, social media has played
Ayesha: a huge role in that because, you know, back in the early 2000s, late 2000s,
Ayesha: you didn't have social media or people out in the community with a disability.
Ayesha: So, and now it's a NDIS made the news, you know,
Ayesha: and then you've got people with disabilities out in the community,
Ayesha: running their own businesses or,
Ayesha: running their own social media accounts, which is great.
Ellie: Ellie: Tell me about your role at APM.
Ellie: What does that involve exactly?
Ayesha: Ayesha: So it's two facets of community capacity building.
Ayesha: So one is creating projects
Ayesha: in the community to help build
Ayesha: people skills and experience that have a disability.
Ayesha: And then the other part is going to local governments
Ayesha: and making
Ayesha: them be more accessible and inclusive,
Ayesha: and making sure that they can understand about disability,
Ayesha: but also NDIS. Ellie: Ellie: Yeah.
Ellie: So is that more policy or is that making the actual
Ellie: government organisations more accessible internally?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Internally.
Ayesha: But also, just changing their attitudes and the way that they think about,
Ayesha: disability, kind of lucky in Mandurah
Ayesha: that the person who’s the Community Access Inclusion officer, she actually has a disability,
Ayesha: she's in a wheelchair and she, she gets it, but she contacts
Ayesha: me and, like, “how can we make this event more accessible?”
Ayesha: And the biggest one was, last year,
Ayesha: this big, huge event called Crab Fest.
Ayesha: And it's probably the biggest festival that Mandurah has.
Ayesha: And I was able to help the whole events team for the City of Mandurah
Ayesha: make their event more inclusive.
Ayesha: You know, there was about four of us all lived experience with disability.
Ayesha: I think that was the great,
Ayesha: take that they listened to actual people with disabilities.
Ellie: Ellie: If we look at, businesses who want to employ someone with a visual impairment,
Ellie: what advice would you give to a business
Ellie: that wants to support people with vision impairments who are either working there,
Ellie: or maybe you want to engage someone with a vision impairment to work there?
Ayesha: Ayesha: Don't be scared of employing someone with vision impairment or disability.
Ayesha: Look at their skills and try and accommodate or arrange,
Ayesha: ways that the person can still do their job,
Ayesha: and not, you know, give them a task that they can't actually achieve.
Ayesha: So someone who's completely blind, you know, you don't want them to create a visual pin up board.
Ellie: Ellie: And also if they're wearing different shoes, just go with it.
Ellie: Well we really do want to thank you so much for coming in today.
Ellie: I have learned so much about vision impairments
Ellie: and I know that the rest of the world is also going to learn so much from this video,
Ellie: so I really appreciate your time and your insights today.
Ellie: I really do appreciate you coming in.
Ayesha: Ayesha: Thank you.