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Kevin: Hello and welcome
back to Subspace Radio.

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It's been a minute.

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I'm Kevin Yank,

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Rob: and I'm Rob Lloyd,

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Kevin: and we are back with the
series premiere of Starfleet Academy.

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Rob: Two episodes, a show that
has been decades in the making.

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I think the first rumblings of it
were like, back in the late seventies

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that was possibly thinking of like
doing the movie as a, as a young Kirk

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and Spock meeting at the academy.

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It's been in, in on the cards
for over, you know, 40 years.

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Kevin: Yeah, the origin story
is always a temping place to go.

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And Star, Star Trek is no
stranger to looking backwards.

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I mean, the Star Trek 2009 movie was
very much like an attempt at that.

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Kirk, Spock and Bones meet at
the ca at Starfleet Academy.

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But, uh, but we haven't done
the proper series until now.

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And I feel like they, they,
they never quite got it right.

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Um, and the question is,
did they get it right now?

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So we'll talk about that in a bit.

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But it's also, uh, Star Trek's
60th anniversary this year.

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So it feels timely to be attempting
something momentous like this.

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Rob: Exactly.

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Exactly.

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And especially with everything up in the
air, you can't, if you're a, uh, into

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the Star Trek world as much as we are,
we can't help but be aware of outside

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factors when it comes to the world with
Paramount being bought by Skydance.

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So the future of, uh, not only the Star
Trek franchise, but the company that

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runs it, Paramount, what their plans
are, what they're hoping to do, and um,

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and what will come about with this new
leadership and their very publicized, uh,

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political leanings and political support.

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So, we'll, uh, we'll see when we move
into the 60th year of Star Trek, how,

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uh, it survives, thrives, and, uh, has
a place within the world at the moment.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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But right now we have two new episodes
of Star Trek before us, so we'll judge

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it on its merits, as we always do.

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Rob: Exactly.

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Just on what we see on screen.

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Kevin: Yeah.

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Before we get into Starfleet Academy,
maybe just a couple a thoughts about Star

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Trek: Khan that happened during the break.

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Rob: Yes.

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Let me know.

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We had a bit of a chat about it,
uh, uh, last year in 2025 about

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the upcoming audio series Khan.

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Um, and you have had a chance to, uh,
listen and indulge in the audio world.

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Uh, Kevin Yank, tell me how was Khan?

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Kevin: It's real good.

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Uh, I would be here for
more Star Trek audio dramas.

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Um, yeah, really well
performed, amazingly produced.

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The soundtrack is killer.

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Like I would just listen
to the score of this thing.

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Uh, um, really well done.

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At nine episodes.

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It's meatier than I think most
people would expect when they hear

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the premise of how did Khan go
from Ceti Alpha V to Star Trek II.

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Um, some things happen, more
happen you would expect.

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Rob: And is it a, um, is it each
episode, like half an hour or 45?

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What's the

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Kevin: Yeah, it's about
TV length episodes.

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Yeah.

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Every, every one lands on a
cliffhanger, like, uh, just

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like any prestige drama does.

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The actors are, are really good,
especially as the, the top billed

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one, uh, Wrenn Schmidt, who plays
Lieutenant Marla McGivers, uh, who you

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may remember from Space Seed is the,
the lieutenant who gets, uh, banished

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along with, um, Khan and his crew.

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She is a standout.

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I loved her in For All Mankind.

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And here she is really good as well.

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Rob: Who is she in For All Mankind.

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I'm a huge For All Mankind fan as well.

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Kevin: She's Margot Madison
in, For All Mankind.

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Rob: Right.

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Kevin: She starts in the first series
of like a flight controller, and,

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and, uh, by later in the series,
her, her role develops, shall we say.

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She is on quite an adventure at the
moment in, uh, in For All Mankind.

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But yeah, she's got this, uh, kind
of like nerdy, serious voice that,

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that I think goes really well, um,
with the Marla McGivers uh, character

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who, way back in the sixties, like
she was, she was a history nerd, and

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that's what fall in love Khan and his
people, or at least get seduced by them.

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And, uh, yeah, watching her or hearing
her kind come to grips with this decision

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she's made and figure out what her place
is among this group of super-people

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who are stranded is, is quite a drama.

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Um, we get a hint at it in Star Trek
II, where Khan kind of says to Kirk, you

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killed my wife, or, or, I, I hold you
responsible for the death of my wife.

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And, uh, and so, you know, it's not
gonna go well for poor Marla McGivers.

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Rob: No.

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Kevin: But more happens
than you would expect.

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There's a new alien race in this story.

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They happen to be telepaths.

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I probably won't say more than that,
but I think that is something that it

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plays differently in an audio drama.

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I think having, having telepaths
on screen, I guess with, with,

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uh, voiceover as we've heard with
Betazoids in the past is, is one thing.

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But playing it in in audio drama is
really interesting, 'cause they use audio

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effects to kind of sell the fact that
what you're hearing is not a physical

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voice, it's a, it's a mental voice.

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And, and the actor who
plays the, uh, head of.

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The, the aliens is very
interesting as well.

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We definitely get a, we get a, a
satisfying answer I would say to how

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did this safe planet that Kirk marooned
them on become an unsafe planet?

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Uh, turn from a tameable wilderness
to a, a desert, uh, uh, hellscape?

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Like that is, that is answered.

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What happens to Khan's wife is answered.

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A bunch of other stuff happens too.

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It's, it's meaty and satisfying.

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I'd say.

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There was plenty of story for the TV
series that was, or the mini series

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that was originally, this was originally
written for by Nicholas Meyer.

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Um, yeah.

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Good, good stuff.

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And a, a fun framing narrative with, uh,
captain Sulu on the Excelsior and, uh,

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young Tuvok who, uh, who disagrees with
his captain's orders in, in this story.

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Um, fun stuff there too,
in that framing narrative.

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So, yeah, if you, if you haven't
heard it, I highly recommend it.

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It was delicious every second.

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I'd say the only downside maybe
was some of the secondary cast.

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I don't know if it's an audio
drama thing, but like, in order to

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make it clear who's who, you kind
of have to write each character

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with a distinguishable ethnicity.

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So there's like, there's the Russian
guy who's obviously going to be the

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bad guy because has a Russian accent.

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Like is a lot of that going on.

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There's a lot of people with, with
very, uh, very large accents to

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help with the identifiability.

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And it, it does make it a, a legible audio
drama, but, uh, some of the characters I

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think are a little cartoony as a result.

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Rob: Well, the audio drama format is
such a, a big part of the Doctor Who

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franchise, obviously, uh, like Big Finish
has been creating original Doctor Who

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audios with original actors from the
TV show, whether it be the classical,

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modern have been coming in and now
they've established their own place.

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They're officially endorsed
by the BBC and stuff.

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So it's become a, a big part
of that franchise at least.

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But it's a fascinating, uh, concept for
Star Trek to pick up because I don't

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think it's really been a part of its,
um, uh, uh, way of producing stories.

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Uh, it's a very unique way of doing it.

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I think this is their first big
push, but it does take a, a specific

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style to, you know, to describe
what action's going on, but not,

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not making it too obvious and yeah,
getting distinct voices of characters.

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'Cause if you get, uh, a, a scene
flooded with more than two characters,

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you, you can easily get lost and
hang on, whose voice is what?

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Uh, so, um, but that's a chunky, meaty,
uh, lot of nine, you know, you know,

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45 minute to hour episodes is, um,
uh, in exploring a part that's, you

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know, Nicholas Meyer has developed.

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Sounds like a, fascinating concept.

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Kevin: It is epic.

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And the final, the final twisty episode
where like the, the big, like, you

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know, the big thing happens that ends
this series, that is the reason for the

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series happening is satisfying, like
what it says about Khan's character.

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I don't want to go into it too much
and spoil it, but like, you know,

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Khan's a fairly one dimensional
villain as we've seen him before.

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And I think if there is one
aspiration, it's to make him

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two dimensional, if not three
dimensional, uh, in, in, in this form.

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Um, and I'd say they succeeded doing that.

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Like, uh, I was emotionally
invested in Khan's decisions by

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the end of this series, which is
pretty big achievement, I'd say.

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Rob: That's a, that's a great achievement.

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That's really, really good.

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Uh, so where can people, uh, listen and,
uh, get, uh, get this into their eardrums?

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Kevin: Oh, wherever, wherever
fine podcasts can be found.

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If you, if you're listening
to us in a podcast app, just

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search for Star Trek Khan.

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I'm sure it'll turn up, but otherwise,
it'll be on the startrek.com website

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for, for the foreseeable I would say.

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Um, yeah, good stuff.

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Uh, let's talk about Starfleet
Academy's big premiere episodes, plural.

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We're gonna talk about, uh,
episode one Kids These Days,

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and episode two Beta Test today.

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Um, what did you think of it, Rob?

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The big, uh, the big
launch of our new series.

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Rob: Look, it, it, it
was, it was pretty good.

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It was pretty good.

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I actually genuinely enjoyed, uh, myself.

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I thought it was a smart decision to
set it in the far future Discovery era.

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So like Discovery season three era, um,
uh, after the Burn and stuff like that.

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I thought that was a great way of
creating new lore, exploring lore

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that was only touched on a little bit.

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Also, I, you know, I missed out
on a season of, uh, Discovery.

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I kind of did season three.

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I skipped season four, went
straight to the final one.

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Um, so I came in a little bit fresher
than, uh, other people would be.

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Um, but I think that's what their
whole push is, is, is to, you know,

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be a new springboard to bring people
in who wouldn't normally watch.

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My big concern is something
that is probably gonna stay

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with me throughout the season.

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The whole, you know, young adult fiction,
uh, teen drama, uh, side of it, which is

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the big push of it, is kind of something
is for me, one of the weaker sides of

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the show, which is the main push of it.

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Kevin: When you say it's for you, it's
the weaker side, are you saying that

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it's just not for you or is it that,
that that itself lessens the show?

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Rob: I think some of it was
written a bit, uh, cringey and,

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and presented, but it's, yeah.

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Uh, but the stuff that worked for
me is what I was surprised about.

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It's balances out half and half.

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You have that Youth Teen Drama high
school esque type of, it's almost,

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uh, Degrassi Junior Star Trek.

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Um, uh, but I was quite surprised
at how they balance it out with like

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diplomacy and, um, time on a bridge
and, you know, uh, Star Trek's,

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you know, pure Star Trek stuff.

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So I was quite, anytime that stuff was
happening, I was like a pig and swill.

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The other stuff, I had to sort of like,
you know, white knuckle it through.

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However, how about you?

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Kevin: Yeah, I, uh, I loved it and I, I
find it's even stronger on second viewing.

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The first viewing is like,
it is a visual spectacle.

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There's a lot coming at you.

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There's a lot of details that that
slip by on first watch that when you

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go back, like I completely missed
Stephen Colbert's Digital Dean

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announcements on the first watch.

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And then I was like, oh yeah, there
was meant to be Colbert in there.

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And then I went back and
watched and he is everywhere.

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Rob: He is everywhere.

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Kevin: And he is a hilarious as well.

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Rob: There's some great gags in there.

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Kevin: Yeah, I, I love how much they
have balanced the self seriousness

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of Star Trek, uh, the earnest
commitment to ideals, with, like,

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kids who know nothing making mistakes.

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I think that is a powerful combination
that kind of, I think back to when they

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launched Star Trek Enterprise and they
promised us a rawer Starfleet, just as

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humanity was taking to the stars for
the first time, they were like, this is

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before they knew what they were doing.

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They're gonna make mistakes and be
fallible and they very much were not.

221
00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:30,479
And, and I think the fact that these
are cadets gives them permission to

222
00:13:30,479 --> 00:13:34,529
be flawed and to make mistakes and to
learn from those mistakes in a way that

223
00:13:34,739 --> 00:13:38,609
has been difficult to find room for
in Star Trek storytelling in the past.

224
00:13:38,609 --> 00:13:41,219
So we've already got a
strong flavor of that.

225
00:13:41,219 --> 00:13:47,189
And, and I agree with you that the,
the adult, the grownup cast, uh, of

226
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:52,919
officers that run the Athena really
balance that well so that it's, I I feel

227
00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:54,569
like it's peanut butter and chocolate.

228
00:13:54,569 --> 00:13:57,869
Like you get a little taste of this
and just when it's getting a bit

229
00:13:57,869 --> 00:13:59,579
much, they flip it to the other one.

230
00:13:59,579 --> 00:14:02,369
And I, I love both for that reason.

231
00:14:02,459 --> 00:14:06,719
In the premiere, there were a couple
of moments that they swung at something

232
00:14:06,719 --> 00:14:08,039
and it didn't quite work for me.

233
00:14:08,039 --> 00:14:11,699
It was a little too cute or, or cutesy.

234
00:14:12,089 --> 00:14:17,339
Um, but most of them worked
and, and I think their, their

235
00:14:17,339 --> 00:14:18,869
batting average is very high.

236
00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:23,769
Already after just a pilot and a
first episode, I'm amazed at how

237
00:14:23,769 --> 00:14:25,539
quickly it is finding its feet.

238
00:14:25,576 --> 00:14:28,829
I'm in love with what they're
doing and I can't wait to find

239
00:14:28,829 --> 00:14:30,179
out more about these characters.

240
00:14:30,184 --> 00:14:33,869
I, I feel like we've only just scratched
the surface on all of them, and, and

241
00:14:33,869 --> 00:14:39,299
it's, that is fun too, is to, you can
see they are setting up mysteries about

242
00:14:39,299 --> 00:14:43,259
all of these characters that they plan
to tell stories about where, where,

243
00:14:43,409 --> 00:14:47,369
I feel like that is something that
Star Trek had lost a bit recently,

244
00:14:47,369 --> 00:14:50,939
that it was very much in service of
the plot and the, they would leave

245
00:14:50,939 --> 00:14:56,969
us with, with very shallow characters
that were barely a name at times.

246
00:14:56,969 --> 00:15:00,059
And, and here it's all about
the characters and I'm, I'm

247
00:15:00,059 --> 00:15:01,169
so happy about that too.

248
00:15:01,957 --> 00:15:04,052
Rob: Yeah, we definitely got
with the first two episodes

249
00:15:04,052 --> 00:15:06,162
as well that, that feel.

250
00:15:06,182 --> 00:15:09,782
like the first episode, which was
the pilot, was a 70 minute episode.

251
00:15:09,782 --> 00:15:14,732
So we had to get through a lot, establish
a lot of characters, a lot of setup.

252
00:15:14,732 --> 00:15:18,692
There's a lot of the usual modern
Star Trek thing of here's a big

253
00:15:18,692 --> 00:15:23,462
space thing and we need to do, um,
scientific mumbo jumbo to solve the

254
00:15:23,462 --> 00:15:25,142
problem in a quick amount of time.

255
00:15:25,142 --> 00:15:28,832
A lot of running around while fighting
is happening and shooting of lasers.

256
00:15:29,172 --> 00:15:31,992
But then balancing that with the
second episode where there was

257
00:15:32,112 --> 00:15:37,272
no action and it was just pure,
let's do Star Trek diplomacy from

258
00:15:37,272 --> 00:15:40,362
an adult and a young person level.

259
00:15:40,422 --> 00:15:44,502
And I'm there going, that's a good, that
it's great to see that they released that.

260
00:15:45,432 --> 00:15:47,232
You can see why they did the first two

261
00:15:47,594 --> 00:15:49,184
Kevin: It's a nice
contrast, you're saying?

262
00:15:49,242 --> 00:15:52,452
Rob: Contrast to go, we can,
we can do space, but we can

263
00:15:52,452 --> 00:15:55,062
also do just the Academy.

264
00:15:55,452 --> 00:15:58,242
Um, to find that balance of
go, this is the whole show,

265
00:15:58,422 --> 00:15:59,892
uh, which I really appreciated.

266
00:16:00,089 --> 00:16:03,179
Kevin: I've been saying for a long time
that my favorite Star Trek is people

267
00:16:03,179 --> 00:16:08,549
like standing in a room and debating
stuff, and that, that was Beta Test.

268
00:16:08,939 --> 00:16:13,679
Uh, and it was great that they
could break away from those serious

269
00:16:13,709 --> 00:16:19,079
diplomacy scenes to like Caleb
literally sitting on the fence and,

270
00:16:19,079 --> 00:16:21,299
you know, all that, all that stuff.

271
00:16:21,299 --> 00:16:24,779
Glitching out the, uh, security
officers and getting oozed.

272
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:30,379
I love how the, the cadet
hijinks create space for the,

273
00:16:30,529 --> 00:16:32,179
the serious diplomacy stuff.

274
00:16:33,482 --> 00:16:33,572
Rob: Yes.

275
00:16:33,572 --> 00:16:39,722
And um, I mean, I think for me, just
because I'm of a certain age, um,

276
00:16:39,812 --> 00:16:44,402
but their secret weapon is Academy
Award-winning Holly Hunter, for heaven's

277
00:16:44,749 --> 00:16:45,559
Kevin: Holy moly.

278
00:16:45,559 --> 00:16:45,799
She's

279
00:16:46,137 --> 00:16:47,732
Rob: are, are you kidding me?

280
00:16:47,822 --> 00:16:49,262
Are you actually kidding me?

281
00:16:49,262 --> 00:16:52,742
We have got Holly Hunter
for an entire season

282
00:16:53,029 --> 00:16:53,539
Kevin: Yeah, I know.

283
00:16:54,452 --> 00:16:54,602
Rob: Oh.

284
00:16:54,814 --> 00:16:59,764
Kevin: I know she's gonna be, she's
not gonna be, uh, yeah, aloof.

285
00:16:59,764 --> 00:17:03,424
I, I feared that the chancellor
would be someone whose office you

286
00:17:03,424 --> 00:17:07,864
go and visit when you've been bad
and they make one speech an episode.

287
00:17:07,864 --> 00:17:11,254
But no, she is all over this
show and having a great time

288
00:17:11,254 --> 00:17:12,934
doing it by all appearances.

289
00:17:13,384 --> 00:17:14,944
Um, yeah, I love her.

290
00:17:14,944 --> 00:17:18,274
I, I have not been familiar
with the works of Holly Hunter.

291
00:17:18,274 --> 00:17:23,944
I at her CV and her, her list of
film credits is a list of movies

292
00:17:23,944 --> 00:17:25,504
that I never got around to watching.

293
00:17:25,594 --> 00:17:28,384
So this is kind of my
introduction to Holly Hunter,

294
00:17:28,467 --> 00:17:29,207
Rob: Oh, welcome.

295
00:17:29,637 --> 00:17:32,567
Welcome to the incredible
world of Holly Hunter.

296
00:17:32,717 --> 00:17:37,167
Yeah, she is just, um, I'll,
it's that usual thing, I think

297
00:17:37,167 --> 00:17:38,087
we've talked about it before.

298
00:17:38,147 --> 00:17:38,447
You know?

299
00:17:38,627 --> 00:17:38,847
Uh.

300
00:17:40,007 --> 00:17:44,177
How Star Trek does sex, and
also how Star Trek does quirky.

301
00:17:44,597 --> 00:17:47,807
And I remember, like I've heard
in interviews, Alex Kurtzman

302
00:17:47,807 --> 00:17:53,087
wanted to make, you know, uh, Ake,
um, uh, let's make her quirky.

303
00:17:53,447 --> 00:17:58,457
So that it, it's, it's, it would
come across as forced if it was

304
00:17:58,457 --> 00:18:02,687
any other actor of a lower ability.

305
00:18:02,927 --> 00:18:08,567
And because, uh, of Holly Hunter's skill,
the fact, you know, they take the time

306
00:18:08,567 --> 00:18:13,547
for her to adjust her captain's seat,
she has her feet on the chair, she

307
00:18:13,547 --> 00:18:18,527
reads a book with glasses, she walks
around barefoot to get the pinkies out.

308
00:18:18,857 --> 00:18:23,877
Um, uh, and the fact that she's
of the same race as Pelia.

309
00:18:24,057 --> 00:18:25,849
Kevin: She's part Lanthanite, she

310
00:18:26,087 --> 00:18:26,777
Rob: Yes.

311
00:18:27,229 --> 00:18:30,589
Kevin: So yeah, she is, and Pelia is
the only other lantite we've ever met.

312
00:18:30,649 --> 00:18:34,719
And there is a consistency between these
characters, more than just that they're

313
00:18:34,719 --> 00:18:40,059
white women of a certain age, but, uh, but
they, they are both, they have the same

314
00:18:40,059 --> 00:18:42,429
brand of quirky that I, I really like.

315
00:18:42,429 --> 00:18:42,669
Yeah.

316
00:18:43,057 --> 00:18:46,407
Rob: Yeah, Carol Kane takes
it to the Carol Kaney extreme.

317
00:18:46,407 --> 00:18:50,307
Yeah, this is sort of like a
more subdued, so, um, Ake has her

318
00:18:50,337 --> 00:18:52,887
Grateful Dead albums in her room.

319
00:18:55,049 --> 00:18:55,619
Kevin: She's so good.

320
00:18:55,649 --> 00:18:58,829
Uh, I think there was just like,
there was one moment where she was

321
00:18:58,829 --> 00:19:01,919
curled up in the captain's chair
where I was like, isn't it red alert?

322
00:19:01,979 --> 00:19:03,269
I think that's a bit much.

323
00:19:03,659 --> 00:19:05,459
Uh, but everything else was great.

324
00:19:05,519 --> 00:19:13,349
Um, so, and yeah, she's, uh, she, she
is interesting and active in moments

325
00:19:13,349 --> 00:19:18,659
where I feel like any other Star Trek
actor would be still, and, and nothing.

326
00:19:18,659 --> 00:19:22,289
Like, yeah, there are shots of her
just reacting in silence to things

327
00:19:22,289 --> 00:19:24,209
that, that I could eat like a meal.

328
00:19:24,209 --> 00:19:25,889
So yeah, she's, she's great.

329
00:19:25,949 --> 00:19:28,799
I am so happy to have
her leading our cast.

330
00:19:29,219 --> 00:19:30,479
Uh, Paul Giamatti.

331
00:19:30,479 --> 00:19:33,839
I don't think we're gonna see much more
of him this season until probably the,

332
00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:36,329
the bookend finale of Caleb's story.

333
00:19:36,747 --> 00:19:38,487
Rob: He'll come in the start,
and come in at the end.

334
00:19:38,553 --> 00:19:41,163
Kevin: I love Paul Giamatti generally.

335
00:19:41,838 --> 00:19:45,198
But what I had seen of him in the
clips and the, the trailers for

336
00:19:45,198 --> 00:19:48,348
this show made me worry a little.

337
00:19:48,348 --> 00:19:52,908
I think out of context, they were
a bit overdone, but in the context

338
00:19:52,908 --> 00:19:54,588
of the show, it all worked for me.

339
00:19:54,588 --> 00:19:55,578
He was so good.

340
00:19:55,968 --> 00:19:59,628
My favorite line he says was when
he goes, "Ooh, when you lie to me,

341
00:19:59,628 --> 00:20:01,578
captain, I'll admit: it's hot."

342
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:04,980
Rob: And that was a great scene.

343
00:20:04,980 --> 00:20:05,730
That was incredible.

344
00:20:05,730 --> 00:20:09,000
That was what I was going, you know,
when I'm sitting back and I'm going,

345
00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:14,910
we have got a, a, a wide shot, uh,
staying on pretty much, it didn't

346
00:20:14,910 --> 00:20:19,770
really break that much, we've got
Paul Giamatti, Holly Hunter, you know,

347
00:20:20,295 --> 00:20:23,955
battling it out with their wits, with
their diplomacy, with their barbs.

348
00:20:24,165 --> 00:20:27,015
And it just, I'm there
going, we're spoiled.

349
00:20:27,045 --> 00:20:30,795
We're like, it's kinda like what happened
when Peter Capaldi joined Doctor Who.

350
00:20:31,005 --> 00:20:35,145
I went, I can't believe we have
got this caliber of actor and

351
00:20:35,145 --> 00:20:37,665
artist in, in our little show.

352
00:20:37,665 --> 00:20:41,535
I'm there going just sit back and
enjoy the fact we have got these

353
00:20:41,715 --> 00:20:47,085
incredible talents and coming out,
hanging out in Star Trek was, and

354
00:20:47,085 --> 00:20:48,325
what they bring to it was great.

355
00:20:48,393 --> 00:20:51,693
Kevin: Yeah, add to that list,
Tatiana Maslany, who is Anisha

356
00:20:51,693 --> 00:20:55,953
Mir, uh, Caleb's mother seen
very briefly here in one scene.

357
00:20:55,983 --> 00:20:59,853
Uh, she, she, she earns her
paycheck in that one scene in

358
00:21:00,045 --> 00:21:03,495
Rob: What an incredible, we've
got Tatiana Maslany as well.

359
00:21:03,495 --> 00:21:06,135
I'm there going, oh my,
yeah, we're just spoiled.

360
00:21:06,135 --> 00:21:10,095
And she just pops in for the f she's
gotta pop back again, obviously.

361
00:21:10,485 --> 00:21:13,995
Um, but um, yeah, she's
a superstar as well.

362
00:21:14,025 --> 00:21:16,965
Incredible Emmy award
winning, uh, superstar actor.

363
00:21:17,703 --> 00:21:18,123
Kevin: Yeah.

364
00:21:18,183 --> 00:21:24,843
Uh, Caleb, uh, I enjoyed, he's walking
a fine line of likability, I feel like.

365
00:21:24,933 --> 00:21:25,473
The, some of

366
00:21:25,575 --> 00:21:29,865
Rob: They definitely pushed it in
episode two, definitely, in in Beta Test.

367
00:21:29,865 --> 00:21:31,425
You there going oh, oh.

368
00:21:31,698 --> 00:21:35,418
Kevin: Uh, I appreciate, I appreciate
that, that it's not just he's,

369
00:21:35,448 --> 00:21:40,608
he's grumpy for half of the first
episode and then he's a golden boy.

370
00:21:40,638 --> 00:21:43,938
Like, like that he's still learning
things and will be, he's still

371
00:21:43,938 --> 00:21:46,278
learning things because, uh, yeah.

372
00:21:46,338 --> 00:21:51,048
Uh, much as I enjoyed Prodigy,
I think those, those ragtag

373
00:21:51,048 --> 00:21:54,948
characters became model officers
a little quick for my liking.

374
00:21:56,930 --> 00:21:59,865
Rob: Well, they had Janeway to
show them whole, the whole way

375
00:21:59,865 --> 00:22:01,395
as soon as they got on the ship.

376
00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:02,220
Kevin: That's right.

377
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:06,558
Oh, we even got some name checks
of, uh, of our Prodigy characters.

378
00:22:06,588 --> 00:22:12,354
Um, when Sam was talking to the
Doctor, asking him to be her mentor,

379
00:22:12,564 --> 00:22:16,414
she goes, oh, you were a mentor to
Dal and Murf and Captain Gwyndala.

380
00:22:16,957 --> 00:22:21,737
Rob: Yes, but no mention of,
of Zero, no of of Rok-Tahk.

381
00:22:22,027 --> 00:22:26,497
And he looked very, he very, very taken
back when Gwyndala was mentioning they go,

382
00:22:26,917 --> 00:22:29,407
there's something there, there's enticing.

383
00:22:29,437 --> 00:22:31,417
Give us season three of Prodigy!

384
00:22:32,137 --> 00:22:32,497
'nobody

385
00:22:32,604 --> 00:22:33,874
Kevin: some of Rok-Tahk's.

386
00:22:33,894 --> 00:22:37,164
Uh, I don't know if it's just the
one, uh, I think it's just the one

387
00:22:37,164 --> 00:22:40,434
who's wandering around Starfleet
Academy, that rock creature.

388
00:22:40,927 --> 00:22:44,887
Rob: And like, the perfect
representation from Prodigy wasn't

389
00:22:44,887 --> 00:22:47,887
sorta like, tried to, oh, let's
do it in real, you know, you know,

390
00:22:48,114 --> 00:22:48,444
Kevin: Yeah.

391
00:22:48,444 --> 00:22:51,864
It was, it was just more realistic
enough that you could buy it

392
00:22:51,864 --> 00:22:53,304
as a walkin' talkin' rock.

393
00:22:53,304 --> 00:22:54,234
Yeah, for sure.

394
00:22:54,997 --> 00:22:55,897
Rob: Um, yes.

395
00:22:55,998 --> 00:22:58,098
Kevin: I'm just going
through the cast list here.

396
00:22:58,158 --> 00:23:05,848
Lura Thok as the, uh, the Half
Klingon, half Jem'Hadar, uh, tough

397
00:23:05,868 --> 00:23:09,138
talking, uh, head of the Cadets.

398
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:13,200
Rob: I was, I was a bit curious about
how this one would work out and uh hmm.

399
00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:17,130
Uh, what, what a, what
a blend of species to

400
00:23:17,358 --> 00:23:17,658
Kevin: Yes.

401
00:23:18,125 --> 00:23:21,580
Rob: a, a Klingon and a Jem'Hadar.

402
00:23:21,648 --> 00:23:23,148
Kevin: Uh, I thought was great.

403
00:23:23,658 --> 00:23:28,398
When she's getting, uh, Caleb to drop
and give me, gimme 10 in the hallways.

404
00:23:28,458 --> 00:23:31,638
Um, it was like, okay, this is something.

405
00:23:31,638 --> 00:23:32,838
We'll see where this goes.

406
00:23:33,198 --> 00:23:35,898
By the time she was like going,
I can always spot the runner

407
00:23:35,898 --> 00:23:38,358
in the, uh, in, Beta Test.

408
00:23:38,358 --> 00:23:39,828
I, I was completely sold.

409
00:23:39,828 --> 00:23:41,778
She is, she's having a great time.

410
00:23:41,778 --> 00:23:46,278
I love that she is mean and
finds it funny how mean she is.

411
00:23:46,770 --> 00:23:50,700
Rob: Well, she, um, uh, the act of
playing her is a actor comedian, so

412
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:55,140
they do stand up as well, you see that,
you see that hint of like, even the

413
00:23:55,140 --> 00:23:58,440
lines of, is this multiple choice, uh

414
00:23:59,088 --> 00:24:00,678
Kevin: Gina Yashere is,

415
00:24:00,835 --> 00:24:01,345
Rob: Gina Yashere.

416
00:24:01,365 --> 00:24:02,835
British, British actor, performer.

417
00:24:02,835 --> 00:24:04,185
She's, uh, doing a great job.

418
00:24:04,395 --> 00:24:06,075
But they're not overusing her.

419
00:24:06,105 --> 00:24:09,885
There's a, they, they, they,
that nice balance of how much

420
00:24:09,885 --> 00:24:12,375
we see her, um, is great.

421
00:24:12,405 --> 00:24:16,245
I love having a Klingon that
likes gardening and birdwatching.

422
00:24:17,348 --> 00:24:18,848
Kevin: Jay-Den Kraag.

423
00:24:19,158 --> 00:24:19,878
Yes.

424
00:24:20,228 --> 00:24:21,988
Played by Karim Diané.

425
00:24:22,008 --> 00:24:25,878
I, I think there's a lot more to
this guy than that we are going to

426
00:24:25,878 --> 00:24:27,708
learn in a future episode or two.

427
00:24:28,485 --> 00:24:30,285
Rob: much him in episode two, definitely.

428
00:24:30,598 --> 00:24:34,078
Kevin: I'm very happy for them
to like, you know, pepper, pepper

429
00:24:34,078 --> 00:24:36,028
these stories out in small doses.

430
00:24:36,058 --> 00:24:41,368
Uh, he is very intriguing and, and I, I,
I would say very charismatic as a Klingon.

431
00:24:41,473 --> 00:24:43,438
I, I can't wait to learn more about him.

432
00:24:44,248 --> 00:24:49,708
Uh, Kerrice Brooks as SAM, the
Series Acclimation Mil, uh, holo

433
00:24:49,918 --> 00:24:54,958
holographic character, programmed
to feel 17 and designed to

434
00:24:55,288 --> 00:24:58,408
reconnect with, uh, organic life.

435
00:24:58,438 --> 00:25:00,328
Uh, she is hilarious and funny.

436
00:25:00,328 --> 00:25:06,388
Her, her cadence of saying things being
off is, is really, uh, delightful.

437
00:25:06,478 --> 00:25:07,708
Um, yeah, good stuff.

438
00:25:08,410 --> 00:25:09,730
Rob: Yeah, she's really, really good.

439
00:25:09,730 --> 00:25:14,860
I like the fact, the, the nice little
drop of bat that she's a, a, a photonic,

440
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:16,990
think there's the proper phrasing.

441
00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:18,880
She doesn't like to be called a hologram.

442
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,020
Um,

443
00:25:20,758 --> 00:25:22,978
Kevin: I think that goes back
to a Voyager episode, actually.

444
00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:23,620
Rob: Yes.

445
00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:24,700
Yeah, I do remember.

446
00:25:25,690 --> 00:25:26,140
Yeah.

447
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:30,910
Um, and it'd be interesting to see her
relationship with, uh, the Doctor develop.

448
00:25:31,090 --> 00:25:34,120
'Cause of course he doesn't want
to, you know, do anything other than

449
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:35,860
just his job and everyone annoys him.

450
00:25:36,150 --> 00:25:37,370
Unless you join up for the opera.

451
00:25:37,870 --> 00:25:39,550
It's great to have Robert Picardo back.

452
00:25:39,550 --> 00:25:41,710
How wonderful is it having Picardo

453
00:25:41,863 --> 00:25:42,703
Kevin: so good.

454
00:25:43,063 --> 00:25:44,383
He's good.

455
00:25:44,503 --> 00:25:48,673
He's even better than in Prodigy,
um, I liked him there too.

456
00:25:48,823 --> 00:25:53,323
Uh, yeah, they're, they're, they're doing,
the writers are doing great work with him.

457
00:25:53,323 --> 00:25:55,393
I feel like they know just how to use him.

458
00:25:55,393 --> 00:25:59,743
He is, he is the same old doctor
in that he is just as awkward

459
00:25:59,743 --> 00:26:01,093
and full of himself as ever.

460
00:26:01,093 --> 00:26:05,953
But he has, he has learned humility on top
of that, so that it's an amazing blend.

461
00:26:05,953 --> 00:26:10,903
Like he does not want to be SAM's
mentor because he, he knows better now.

462
00:26:11,263 --> 00:26:14,263
Uh, and yet he's a great
mentor as a result.

463
00:26:14,392 --> 00:26:18,722
Rob: Picardo's one of those great
theatrical American actors that gives

464
00:26:18,722 --> 00:26:20,792
me a vibe of, say, René Auberjonois.

465
00:26:20,972 --> 00:26:25,772
So when he was cast as the Doctor, I
went, well, he's filling in that role.

466
00:26:26,072 --> 00:26:31,112
Like, you know, even, even in even, uh,
Leonard Nimoy in the original series

467
00:26:31,142 --> 00:26:39,722
or, um, in, in TNG was the Captain,
Picard, uh, with, um Patrick Stewart.

468
00:26:40,022 --> 00:26:44,402
But Picardo has such a theatrical flare
about him and what he brings to screen.

469
00:26:44,402 --> 00:26:48,302
And so he just elevates a scene
so much more with this heightened

470
00:26:48,302 --> 00:26:50,402
performance that's never over the top.

471
00:26:50,702 --> 00:26:54,902
But it is that sense of he's not
just working, he's working every

472
00:26:54,902 --> 00:26:58,442
element of the frame to get out
the best of, of his performance.

473
00:26:58,442 --> 00:26:59,942
And he hasn't missed a beat, you know, he

474
00:27:00,439 --> 00:27:00,829
Kevin: he's so

475
00:27:02,702 --> 00:27:03,632
Rob: For, what, 30

476
00:27:03,769 --> 00:27:07,159
Kevin: The, yeah, opening with
tricorder, medical tricorder.

477
00:27:07,159 --> 00:27:07,669
Just like

478
00:27:07,682 --> 00:27:10,302
Rob: Medical tricorder!

479
00:27:10,369 --> 00:27:11,299
Kevin: So good.

480
00:27:11,473 --> 00:27:15,973
When, uh, when Genesis, played
by Bella Shepard, who is another

481
00:27:15,973 --> 00:27:18,913
character that I feel like there's
a lot of stories yet to be told,

482
00:27:19,315 --> 00:27:22,555
Rob: and lots of new species,
like she's a new species.

483
00:27:22,615 --> 00:27:26,605
Um, the arrogant jock guy
who's got a heart somewhere.

484
00:27:26,815 --> 00:27:30,415
He's a new species that can
walk in, uh, in deep for eight

485
00:27:30,433 --> 00:27:32,593
Kevin: Darem Reymi,
played by George Hawkins.

486
00:27:32,593 --> 00:27:33,043
Yes.

487
00:27:33,595 --> 00:27:37,405
Rob: Um, but I'm intrigued to find
out more about Genesis's character.

488
00:27:37,405 --> 00:27:39,565
Her father's an admiral, so

489
00:27:40,603 --> 00:27:41,983
Kevin: so a Starfleet brat.

490
00:27:42,043 --> 00:27:42,523
Yeah.

491
00:27:42,553 --> 00:27:42,853
But

492
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:43,240
Rob: Yeah.

493
00:27:44,143 --> 00:27:48,043
Kevin: Yeah, I can't wait to see
what, you know, she's, she's young and

494
00:27:48,043 --> 00:27:52,273
inexperienced too, in her own way, and I
can't wait to see what mistakes she makes.

495
00:27:52,555 --> 00:27:58,345
Rob: But so, um, em embracing
and open like SAM is struggling

496
00:27:58,345 --> 00:28:03,285
and clearly being bullied and,
and, and not making connections.

497
00:28:03,285 --> 00:28:05,175
And Genesis just goes, I got you.

498
00:28:05,415 --> 00:28:05,985
I got you.

499
00:28:06,225 --> 00:28:10,575
And that type of stuff is a great,
great thing to see, a great, um, a

500
00:28:10,755 --> 00:28:12,735
great character that's genuinely open

501
00:28:13,233 --> 00:28:17,103
Kevin: When Genesis was trying to
rescue Darem who was out on the

502
00:28:17,133 --> 00:28:20,853
hull getting the, uh, serial number
from the programmable matter.

503
00:28:20,853 --> 00:28:27,483
And, uh, first of all, there, I love
some of the subtle like this, this

504
00:28:27,693 --> 00:28:29,943
episode was put together so well.

505
00:28:30,033 --> 00:28:31,293
It had the time.

506
00:28:31,653 --> 00:28:35,043
I think we've talked in recent episodes
about some of these, some of these

507
00:28:35,043 --> 00:28:37,833
Star Trek episodes in Strange New
Worlds have felt a little rushed.

508
00:28:37,953 --> 00:28:41,313
Like they came together at the last
minute and they missed details and

509
00:28:41,313 --> 00:28:45,063
this felt like they went back twice
and three times to get it right.

510
00:28:45,543 --> 00:28:48,423
When she's trying to rescue him from
the hull, she tries to transport

511
00:28:48,423 --> 00:28:52,383
'em off and the computer reminds
us transporters are offline.

512
00:28:52,833 --> 00:28:56,643
And it's, I feel like it's the third
time we hear transporters offline

513
00:28:56,643 --> 00:29:02,088
from the computer in, in the last
few minutes, but they like, they take

514
00:29:02,088 --> 00:29:05,808
a minute to realize this is a Star,
Star Trek show that people may be

515
00:29:05,808 --> 00:29:08,418
watching as first time Star Trek fans.

516
00:29:08,778 --> 00:29:12,318
And so they tell us again and they
take the moment to tell us again.

517
00:29:12,318 --> 00:29:15,078
And I really like that, that, that, um.

518
00:29:15,663 --> 00:29:20,673
They don't skip the details out of
expediency, they go through the process.

519
00:29:20,793 --> 00:29:26,463
Uh, and then she tries to use
Commander Thok's, uh, access code,

520
00:29:26,493 --> 00:29:28,303
which she overheard in Sickbay.

521
00:29:28,383 --> 00:29:31,473
And that doesn't work because her
voice print doesn't, doesn't match.

522
00:29:31,473 --> 00:29:36,093
So like these, like escalating attempts
that kind of world build about like

523
00:29:36,093 --> 00:29:39,603
what are, what are the facilities
that our characters can draw on?

524
00:29:39,723 --> 00:29:42,153
What are the constraints
that they are under?

525
00:29:42,273 --> 00:29:45,963
And then finally she just says,
hello, can anyone help me?

526
00:29:45,963 --> 00:29:47,313
I'm having an emergency.

527
00:29:47,313 --> 00:29:51,573
And, and, uh, the Doctor appears, please
state the nature of the medical emergency.

528
00:29:51,573 --> 00:29:57,033
It's so satisfying those layers leading
up to this, this character based payoff.

529
00:29:57,033 --> 00:30:04,293
Um, just that, that thirty second moment,
um, for me is an, is like that is in a

530
00:30:04,293 --> 00:30:06,363
nutshell what I love about this show.

531
00:30:06,966 --> 00:30:11,486
Rob: Yes, taking that time definitely
to establish the realities and the

532
00:30:11,516 --> 00:30:16,406
protocols and so there, so that if
you're watching for the first time,

533
00:30:16,616 --> 00:30:19,766
you can just go, oh, they're not just
skipping things or short, you know,

534
00:30:19,766 --> 00:30:26,036
taking shortcuts, um, which is vital
to establish the integrity of the show.

535
00:30:26,036 --> 00:30:29,126
That it's something that can be
believed and they don't just, uh, do

536
00:30:29,126 --> 00:30:31,616
shortcuts to get to a simple answer.

537
00:30:32,398 --> 00:30:35,818
Kevin: If there's one weakness in all
of this, I'd say it's the bridge crew.

538
00:30:35,818 --> 00:30:40,948
They do take the time to show us
their holographic profiles while, uh,

539
00:30:41,248 --> 00:30:46,078
while uh, Chancellor Ake is studying
up on the shuttle to, to the Athena.

540
00:30:46,122 --> 00:30:47,940
Rob: And introduces all of their names.

541
00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:48,275
Kevin: Yeah.

542
00:30:48,275 --> 00:30:50,225
They, they, they've
learned from that mistake.

543
00:30:50,705 --> 00:30:55,205
Uh, but, uh, those characters are
still pretty paper thin at this point.

544
00:30:55,205 --> 00:30:58,775
They, they, to me, are, are hairdos
and makeup jobs at this point.

545
00:30:59,105 --> 00:31:02,585
Each of them has had about one
line of dialogue in order to

546
00:31:02,795 --> 00:31:04,955
express their character so far.

547
00:31:05,105 --> 00:31:08,525
So there's, there's plenty of
opportunity space still there, but,

548
00:31:08,617 --> 00:31:11,717
Rob: and we didn't see any of
them in episode two, so it was

549
00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:17,300
Kevin: I think that's just how this,
how this, uh, show is designed is that

550
00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:19,430
that bridge crew is very secondary.

551
00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:23,328
We'll see them now and then when
there is starship stuff to do.

552
00:31:24,055 --> 00:31:24,815
Rob: A training mission.

553
00:31:25,755 --> 00:31:27,735
An outing, an excursion.

554
00:31:28,218 --> 00:31:30,798
Kevin: Yeah, they were
certainly charismatic.

555
00:31:30,918 --> 00:31:38,688
Like I liked when, when, um, uh, Ake
said to put the ship in Academy mode and

556
00:31:38,688 --> 00:31:40,398
they said, which program should we run?

557
00:31:40,398 --> 00:31:46,608
And, and the, the, uh, lady at, at,
uh, at ops goes, Ooh, that's a fun one.

558
00:31:46,638 --> 00:31:51,258
You know, uh, had, they had charming
moments, but yeah, there's, there's

559
00:31:51,258 --> 00:31:54,018
a lot more to do there to turn
those into people I care about.

560
00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:55,880
Rob: Definitely, definitely.

561
00:31:56,060 --> 00:32:00,405
Um, it was good to have, uh, uh,
representatives from Betazed show up,

562
00:32:00,405 --> 00:32:04,245
and I like that whole establishment
in episode two of, they've been out

563
00:32:04,245 --> 00:32:06,015
of the federation since the Burn.

564
00:32:06,345 --> 00:32:11,025
Um, 'cause, uh, because there was a big,
uh, arc in season four, I believe, of

565
00:32:11,025 --> 00:32:16,875
getting Earth to join the Federation
again in Discovery, which I, missed.

566
00:32:17,265 --> 00:32:17,955
Um,

567
00:32:18,213 --> 00:32:23,133
Kevin: And that, that's our last, uh,
regular cast member of the cadets as well.

568
00:32:23,133 --> 00:32:28,443
Zoë Steiner playing Tarima Sadal,
the the young, um, daughter of

569
00:32:28,473 --> 00:32:31,493
the president of, uh, Betazed.

570
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:32,550
Rob: Yes.

571
00:32:32,550 --> 00:32:36,300
With her in, uh, her blockers,
'cause she feels too much.

572
00:32:37,143 --> 00:32:39,843
Kevin: Yes, that's a Tam Elbrun callback.

573
00:32:39,903 --> 00:32:43,813
Uh, if you're keeping track
from TNG, uh, the Tin Man

574
00:32:43,833 --> 00:32:45,333
episode that we talked about not

575
00:32:45,385 --> 00:32:46,620
Rob: We have talked about that one.

576
00:32:46,620 --> 00:32:47,400
Yes, that's right.

577
00:32:47,913 --> 00:32:51,323
Kevin: Yeah, so there is precedent for
Betazoids who feel a little too much.

578
00:32:51,623 --> 00:32:54,143
Uh, one thing I did notice is
none of these Betazoids have the

579
00:32:54,143 --> 00:32:56,903
big uh, uh, contact lenses on.

580
00:32:56,903 --> 00:33:00,023
I guess they, they had to tell
these actors, we won't make

581
00:33:00,023 --> 00:33:01,103
you put contact lenses on.

582
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:02,210
Rob: I know.

583
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:06,260
Yeah, because they, they were doing it
right up to, um, Picard because they,

584
00:33:06,263 --> 00:33:06,503
Kevin: Yeah.

585
00:33:06,503 --> 00:33:06,803
Yeah.

586
00:33:06,803 --> 00:33:07,883
It's very recent.

587
00:33:07,883 --> 00:33:09,773
that's a that's a pretty big change.

588
00:33:10,340 --> 00:33:11,180
Rob: A massive change.

589
00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:12,860
And they haven't explained it yet,

590
00:33:13,028 --> 00:33:13,898
Kevin: They haven't.

591
00:33:14,078 --> 00:33:15,548
Yeah, I, I don't think they will.

592
00:33:15,548 --> 00:33:17,348
I think they'll just move on from that.

593
00:33:17,468 --> 00:33:22,888
I really liked the, the, uh, world
building of Betazed and, and nine

594
00:33:22,888 --> 00:33:27,178
light years of space walled themselves
off from the rest the galaxy and

595
00:33:27,178 --> 00:33:31,978
that, that wall coming down is
what is, uh, being negotiated here.

596
00:33:32,128 --> 00:33:34,768
I thought the negotiations
were all really fascinating.

597
00:33:34,768 --> 00:33:37,498
Like the, this is what
the Federation is about.

598
00:33:37,858 --> 00:33:40,078
This is why Betazed doubts it.

599
00:33:40,108 --> 00:33:44,398
Like all of that stuff was, oh,
delectable world building, like stuff

600
00:33:44,398 --> 00:33:50,158
that, you know, Discovery had things I
liked, but this was one of the things

601
00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:54,208
I didn't like is Discovery gifted
itself with a whole big galaxy of the

602
00:33:54,208 --> 00:33:58,738
future by jumping ahead all of that
time and did very little with it of,

603
00:33:58,780 --> 00:34:00,700
Rob: You gotta spend more
time with Michael Burnham.

604
00:34:00,850 --> 00:34:04,240
Michael Burnham has so much to
worry about and just I'm, you know,

605
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,470
you're just not considerate enough.

606
00:34:05,470 --> 00:34:08,500
Kevin, think you really should,
uh, take a minute to check.

607
00:34:08,923 --> 00:34:11,983
Kevin: So I hope the world building
continues, is what I'm saying.

608
00:34:12,235 --> 00:34:17,395
Rob: I, I totally agree that that whole
episode, the focusing on a planet and

609
00:34:17,395 --> 00:34:21,025
a culture that we've got to know in
Star Trek, and if you're seeing it

610
00:34:21,025 --> 00:34:22,975
for the first time, welcome to it.

611
00:34:23,425 --> 00:34:28,465
Um, but to take that time, why they
are suspicious, why they are cautious.

612
00:34:28,585 --> 00:34:32,988
Establishing the isolationism and
the youth wanting to open up and see

613
00:34:32,988 --> 00:34:37,728
the world, you know, connections to
George and Gracie with, um, wanting

614
00:34:37,728 --> 00:34:43,368
to see a humpback whale and seeing,
you know, a, a a, a species so huge

615
00:34:43,398 --> 00:34:45,108
that we are insignificant to them.

616
00:34:45,211 --> 00:34:45,631
Kevin: Mm-hmm.

617
00:34:45,738 --> 00:34:49,548
Rob: Um, those type of
philosophies within one culture.

618
00:34:49,698 --> 00:34:54,078
So it's not just, you know, this race,
it's just got a pop, couple of bumps

619
00:34:54,078 --> 00:34:56,238
on its face and they're all the same.

620
00:34:56,568 --> 00:35:00,708
Going, no, the, the youth, the
adults, the, all that range,

621
00:35:00,798 --> 00:35:02,898
uh, was, was beautiful to see.

622
00:35:02,898 --> 00:35:07,068
And then the solution at the end,
of course, it's perfect Star Trek of

623
00:35:07,068 --> 00:35:14,448
going, you know, we, we talk and we
share, and we compromise and we balance.

624
00:35:14,568 --> 00:35:19,038
And I'm, they're going, yeah, they've
been doing this for 60 years, but

625
00:35:19,038 --> 00:35:20,718
now it's being accused of being woke.

626
00:35:21,411 --> 00:35:22,971
Kevin: I wonder if you felt the same.

627
00:35:22,971 --> 00:35:25,791
There was something about the
staging of the two podiums and the

628
00:35:25,791 --> 00:35:29,871
crowd around it that, that really
emphasized to me the awkwardness of

629
00:35:30,171 --> 00:35:35,931
these galaxy defining negotiations
happening on in a public forum.

630
00:35:36,741 --> 00:35:37,326
It was weird.

631
00:35:38,076 --> 00:35:41,181
It's, it's not something that
Star Trek hasn't done before.

632
00:35:41,181 --> 00:35:45,621
Like I think all the way back to Star Trek
four, where the Klingon is grandstanding

633
00:35:45,621 --> 00:35:50,001
in the galactic senate about Kirk, uh,
you know, there shall be no peace as

634
00:35:50,001 --> 00:35:51,561
long as Kirk lives all these sorts of

635
00:35:52,423 --> 00:35:56,178
Rob: Remember this well, there
shall be no peace as long as

636
00:35:56,178 --> 00:36:00,258
Kirk… Now that's theatricality
on a, on a, on a movie screen.

637
00:36:00,258 --> 00:36:00,588
That guy

638
00:36:00,651 --> 00:36:01,431
Kevin: Yeah.

639
00:36:01,851 --> 00:36:02,151
Yeah.

640
00:36:02,151 --> 00:36:07,731
So we've had that set up before and for
some reason back then, uh, I believed it

641
00:36:07,791 --> 00:36:13,011
and for some reason here I didn't believe
it and I can't quite put my finger on why.

642
00:36:13,398 --> 00:36:16,518
Rob: Was it just because it
was literally just at a school?

643
00:36:16,911 --> 00:36:17,326
Kevin: Yeah, maybe.

644
00:36:17,538 --> 00:36:20,328
Rob: Like it's, it felt
like an assembly as

645
00:36:20,421 --> 00:36:22,941
Kevin: Yeah, I needed a
few more alien delegates.

646
00:36:22,941 --> 00:36:23,151
I've,

647
00:36:23,358 --> 00:36:23,868
Rob: Yeah.

648
00:36:23,928 --> 00:36:24,288
Yeah.

649
00:36:24,288 --> 00:36:29,148
I'm there going, this is like, I've been
in these assemblies when you've got a year

650
00:36:29,148 --> 00:36:32,538
level in and they don't want to be paying
attention, you've got a kid with a zipper.

651
00:36:32,928 --> 00:36:39,138
Um, the grand, you know, epic,
uh, galactic scale of this whole

652
00:36:39,138 --> 00:36:41,988
thing was kind of reduced a little
bit when you're just going, eh,

653
00:36:41,988 --> 00:36:43,608
they're just doing it in auditorium.

654
00:36:44,524 --> 00:36:47,224
Kevin: Maybe it was just the step
down from the production values

655
00:36:47,224 --> 00:36:51,544
of that first movie length episode
to, uh, an episode of the week.

656
00:36:51,574 --> 00:36:53,194
Maybe that's what I was feeling as well.

657
00:36:53,717 --> 00:36:56,267
Rob: It is definitely, you could
tell that they've sorta like

658
00:36:56,267 --> 00:37:00,587
they've created a, a modular set
that can be shifted and changed to

659
00:37:00,587 --> 00:37:02,477
represent many different things.

660
00:37:02,477 --> 00:37:05,627
So they've put, they've
got not as much money.

661
00:37:05,657 --> 00:37:08,417
They've been saying a lot, we haven't
got as much money as you think

662
00:37:08,417 --> 00:37:12,977
we have, but they've using it as
best they can to make it look, uh,

663
00:37:13,249 --> 00:37:14,119
Kevin: They do have a lot.

664
00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:19,219
Like I've the, that, that,
that academy set is the largest

665
00:37:19,219 --> 00:37:21,349
standing set in the United States.

666
00:37:21,379 --> 00:37:25,069
Like the, they've combined two
sound stages to make it happen.

667
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:29,929
Uh, so yeah, it is incredible
having, having Bob Picardo up there

668
00:37:29,929 --> 00:37:34,189
singing his opera, that is, uh, a
counterpoint to the negotiations.

669
00:37:34,189 --> 00:37:37,579
And when things go wrong in the opera,
things go wrong in the negotiations.

670
00:37:37,579 --> 00:37:38,659
It's, it, it was fun.

671
00:37:39,227 --> 00:37:39,707
Rob: Lovely.

672
00:37:39,797 --> 00:37:43,907
Even just the, like, the awkwardness of
that scene, there was just some moments,

673
00:37:43,907 --> 00:37:46,037
like even the awkwardness of the podiums.

674
00:37:46,187 --> 00:37:50,222
'cause like they had wood, but then
they had a clear barrier at the top.

675
00:37:50,222 --> 00:37:50,582
And there was a

676
00:37:50,674 --> 00:37:54,454
Kevin: going a little hard with the
Starfleet deltas, I have to say.

677
00:37:54,504 --> 00:37:55,054
Rob: Lot of deltas.

678
00:37:55,134 --> 00:37:56,374
Deltas in the fireworks.

679
00:37:56,505 --> 00:37:59,584
Kevin: The Athena bridge looks
incredible, but there are two

680
00:37:59,584 --> 00:38:00,934
things that bother me about it.

681
00:38:01,174 --> 00:38:04,414
One is the, I'm gonna have to, I'm
gonna take some time to get used to the

682
00:38:04,414 --> 00:38:06,934
programmable matter control surfaces.

683
00:38:06,934 --> 00:38:11,464
Like when you just see the
stations, they're just like gray,

684
00:38:11,524 --> 00:38:14,404
uh, gray speckled rectangles.

685
00:38:14,434 --> 00:38:19,414
Uh, they do turn into screens and things
like that as needed for story purposes.

686
00:38:19,504 --> 00:38:22,804
But when you just happen to see
someone standing in front of a control

687
00:38:22,804 --> 00:38:24,394
panel, it's pretty boring back there.

688
00:38:24,394 --> 00:38:27,309
There's no, no, no blinky
lights or, or pretty graphics.

689
00:38:28,009 --> 00:38:31,954
But the second thing is all of the
chairs on the bridge have a, have

690
00:38:31,954 --> 00:38:36,274
a stand or a base that is in the
shape of a white Starfleet delta.

691
00:38:36,364 --> 00:38:40,834
And having every single chair have a white
Starfleet delta under it is a bit much.

692
00:38:40,834 --> 00:38:45,704
Like, use your logo sparingly,
I feel, is a, is a lesson these

693
00:38:45,724 --> 00:38:46,834
designers haven't learned.

694
00:38:47,342 --> 00:38:48,932
Rob: Yeah, less is more sometimes.

695
00:38:49,099 --> 00:38:49,399
Kevin: Yeah.

696
00:38:49,909 --> 00:38:53,449
Anything you wanna talk about
before we dive into the past

697
00:38:53,449 --> 00:38:54,979
adventures of Starfleet Academy?

698
00:38:55,502 --> 00:38:59,132
Rob: Um, yeah, I think you are
right again about like Caleb walked

699
00:38:59,132 --> 00:39:04,502
that fine balance of, you know,
not completely golden boy shifted.

700
00:39:04,502 --> 00:39:08,642
He's still got, he's still got those
elements of like, part of it was quite,

701
00:39:08,882 --> 00:39:11,252
you know, cringe and annoying and
they're going, oh, he's so annoying.

702
00:39:11,252 --> 00:39:12,182
But that's the whole point.

703
00:39:12,362 --> 00:39:16,622
And then for him to get comeuppance
for that, like getting sprayed with

704
00:39:16,622 --> 00:39:18,722
the mucus and getting sprayed the snot.

705
00:39:19,052 --> 00:39:24,962
Um, I think the forced tension
between him and, uh, the young, uh,

706
00:39:24,962 --> 00:39:27,212
Betazoid was a little bit forced.

707
00:39:27,212 --> 00:39:29,372
I'm going, you've only known each
other a couple of minutes and they're

708
00:39:29,402 --> 00:39:31,832
putting in drama for the sake drama

709
00:39:31,914 --> 00:39:32,204
Kevin: Yeah.

710
00:39:32,522 --> 00:39:34,082
Rob: So they can have that resolution.

711
00:39:34,382 --> 00:39:38,582
Um, but I do like that point of,
you know, he is, it's something

712
00:39:38,582 --> 00:39:42,422
they're doing a lot in modern Star
Trek of, you know, Michael Burnham,

713
00:39:42,662 --> 00:39:49,232
Christopher Pike, and now, uh, Giorgiou
and now, uh, Ake and Caleb as well.

714
00:39:49,232 --> 00:39:54,152
Sort of like how the Federation
is working against them, or how

715
00:39:54,152 --> 00:39:57,542
they are like, you know, Burnham
was a criminal brought back in.

716
00:39:58,282 --> 00:40:01,622
Ake has, you know, like taken time off
because of, you know, she's traumatized

717
00:40:01,622 --> 00:40:03,152
by what happened 15 years ago.

718
00:40:03,352 --> 00:40:07,442
Pike's run away because he's
running away from his, uh, destiny.

719
00:40:07,832 --> 00:40:11,192
It's a lot of people, those opening
scenes are going, we need you back.

720
00:40:11,582 --> 00:40:12,572
We need you back.

721
00:40:12,709 --> 00:40:14,059
Kevin: I'm too old for this.

722
00:40:16,232 --> 00:40:17,042
Rob: I can't do it.

723
00:40:17,042 --> 00:40:18,152
I can't get back into it.

724
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:20,059
Kevin: Just when I thought I was out, they

725
00:40:20,252 --> 00:40:21,512
Rob: yeah, pull me back in.

726
00:40:22,142 --> 00:40:27,152
Um, but yeah, that balance of sort
of like the relationship of Caleb and

727
00:40:27,442 --> 00:40:32,282
Ake is developing at a nice pace and,
um, the young actor playing Caleb has

728
00:40:32,282 --> 00:40:34,532
got the sweetest job in the world.

729
00:40:34,532 --> 00:40:37,802
He gets to do so many one-on-one
scenes with Holly Hunter.

730
00:40:37,892 --> 00:40:40,622
So lucky, lucky boy.

731
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:42,439
Kevin: What do you think of her office?

732
00:40:42,439 --> 00:40:49,759
The, the, uh, the dark, uh, the dark
den with the, uh, with the kind of curvy

733
00:40:50,329 --> 00:40:55,369
seats around the fire made of, of tiles,
again, featuring the, the Starfleet

734
00:40:55,442 --> 00:40:57,422
Rob: So many frigging deltas.

735
00:40:57,752 --> 00:40:58,442
Um, yeah.

736
00:40:58,442 --> 00:41:01,892
And her display of, uh, vinyl
records of The Grateful Dead.

737
00:41:01,892 --> 00:41:06,062
So I'm there going, yeah, it's not
very homely, but it is an office.

738
00:41:06,062 --> 00:41:09,122
So I guess it's more, you know,
trying to bring out the quirk.

739
00:41:09,814 --> 00:41:15,274
Kevin: It has been said, it reminds
people of, uh, Captain Kirk's apartment

740
00:41:15,304 --> 00:41:20,644
at the start of Star Trek II, where it's
full of old things and it has a similar

741
00:41:20,794 --> 00:41:23,374
fireplace with curved tile surfaces.

742
00:41:23,374 --> 00:41:26,074
I feel like they are, they're playing
on that, and the fact that they're

743
00:41:26,074 --> 00:41:28,234
both set in San Francisco works

744
00:41:28,262 --> 00:41:30,272
Rob: Of course, of course.

745
00:41:30,367 --> 00:41:32,762
No, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very happy with it.

746
00:41:32,762 --> 00:41:37,352
And those parts that were kind of,
not annoying, but things that kind of

747
00:41:37,892 --> 00:41:43,112
sat sat a little bit, uh, awkward for
me is stuff that, um, was balanced

748
00:41:43,112 --> 00:41:47,192
out beautifully with stuff I just
went, this is really good, Star Trek.

749
00:41:47,612 --> 00:41:53,372
So, um, I'm trying to phase out
the, the din of negativity that

750
00:41:53,552 --> 00:41:54,752
the internet always brings.

751
00:41:54,782 --> 00:41:56,642
'Cause there's a lot to enjoy here.

752
00:41:56,822 --> 00:41:59,012
No matter what type of
Star Trek fan you are.

753
00:41:59,869 --> 00:42:05,719
Kevin: I was, I was spoiled for, for good
stuff that I am happy to overlook the, the

754
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:07,579
moment here, there that didn't quite work.

755
00:42:07,579 --> 00:42:07,849
Yeah.

756
00:42:08,402 --> 00:42:11,042
Rob: Two episodes in and I'm already
enjoying it more than Discovery.

757
00:42:11,479 --> 00:42:12,169
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

758
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:16,759
Uh, I am, I, I say it every season,
but I'm already sad this is going

759
00:42:16,759 --> 00:42:18,499
to be over in eight more episodes.

760
00:42:18,812 --> 00:42:22,442
Rob: Well, yeah, we're not
gonna, it, it, there's potential.

761
00:42:22,502 --> 00:42:26,132
I mean, I'm there going, this is something
that could go for a couple of years, but

762
00:42:26,809 --> 00:42:30,469
Kevin: I think Alex Kitzman
has said this is a series that

763
00:42:30,469 --> 00:42:31,999
by design could go forever.

764
00:42:32,029 --> 00:42:36,109
And I think what he means is there,
the, the second episode starts with

765
00:42:36,109 --> 00:42:40,009
like fall semester, and I think
that there is gonna be a passage

766
00:42:40,009 --> 00:42:44,269
of time here, and if this goes long
enough, there will be graduations

767
00:42:44,269 --> 00:42:48,049
and there will be new arrivals, and
that this could be a rolling cast.

768
00:42:48,662 --> 00:42:49,652
Rob: Yeah, exactly.

769
00:42:49,652 --> 00:42:49,892
That.

770
00:42:49,952 --> 00:42:54,522
It, it's, it's to find the formula
of how to make it work, and they've

771
00:42:54,522 --> 00:43:00,142
figured it out going, you know, the
ship is also the campus and it could

772
00:43:00,142 --> 00:43:02,692
be in one location, it can go to space.

773
00:43:02,692 --> 00:43:05,012
It's sort of like you can
have your cake and eat it too.

774
00:43:05,243 --> 00:43:08,723
Kevin: Uh, it was fun to see
Jett Reno back, uh, in episode

775
00:43:08,723 --> 00:43:10,733
two, uh, played by Tig Notaro.

776
00:43:10,733 --> 00:43:11,903
She had a fun scene.

777
00:43:12,005 --> 00:43:15,165
Rob: Tig Notaro is always great and
we will have some more appearances

778
00:43:15,225 --> 00:43:18,195
from Discovery people, but,
and she did great as a teacher.

779
00:43:18,195 --> 00:43:19,155
What a great teacher.

780
00:43:19,593 --> 00:43:20,763
Kevin: Yeah, she did good.

781
00:43:20,763 --> 00:43:23,643
I hope that's not all we see of her,
but I wouldn't be shocked if it was.

782
00:43:24,495 --> 00:43:26,805
Rob: Yeah, probably maybe
one or two appearances.

783
00:43:26,805 --> 00:43:29,565
We've got Tilly coming up soon as well, so

784
00:43:30,258 --> 00:43:32,988
Kevin: I think Tilly is very
much just gonna be a one-off.

785
00:43:33,798 --> 00:43:37,338
And, and maybe not even that big,
like special appearance is kind

786
00:43:37,338 --> 00:43:39,398
of what has been, uh, touted.

787
00:43:39,398 --> 00:43:43,258
So I'm not expecting much, but I, I'll
be curious to know whether Tig Notaro

788
00:43:43,258 --> 00:43:45,408
is a recurring, a recurring face.

789
00:43:45,810 --> 00:43:46,170
Rob: Yes.

790
00:43:46,410 --> 00:43:48,270
Oh, and Boothby Memorial Park.

791
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:48,750
That was

792
00:43:48,768 --> 00:43:49,368
Kevin: Oh, yes.

793
00:43:49,980 --> 00:43:50,760
Rob: That was lovely.

794
00:43:50,791 --> 00:43:56,371
Kevin: Speaking of Boothby, about
Starfleet Academy, uh, this kickoff

795
00:43:56,371 --> 00:44:00,331
of this new series set in this,
uh, place feels like as good an

796
00:44:00,331 --> 00:44:05,071
opportunity as any to reflect on other
appearances of Starfleet Academy,

797
00:44:05,071 --> 00:44:07,231
even if they were centuries before.

798
00:44:08,071 --> 00:44:10,414
Uh, where do you wanna start, Rob?

799
00:44:10,817 --> 00:44:14,327
Rob: Let's go with an episode that
we have talked about before many,

800
00:44:14,327 --> 00:44:19,037
many times, especially when we're in
our, uh, our deep Lower Decks phase.

801
00:44:19,277 --> 00:44:22,157
Let's go to The First Duty.

802
00:44:22,397 --> 00:44:23,447
Not the first duty.

803
00:44:23,867 --> 00:44:26,987
We're not doing a, any, uh, toilet
humor here, thank you very much.

804
00:44:26,987 --> 00:44:28,517
We're a sophisticated podcast.

805
00:44:28,997 --> 00:44:34,697
Uh, so we're going all the way back
to, uh, season five, episode 19 of TNG.

806
00:44:35,027 --> 00:44:39,737
Um, uh, with The First Duty,
with Nick Locarno, with Wesley

807
00:44:39,737 --> 00:44:45,627
Crusher and, uh, Joshua Albert's,
uh, tragic passing as well.

808
00:44:45,687 --> 00:44:49,557
Um, so this has been mentioned many,
many times and I had not seen this

809
00:44:49,557 --> 00:44:54,717
episode when, uh, the big reveal at
the end of that season of Lower Decks

810
00:44:54,717 --> 00:44:57,927
was all about Nick Locarno's return.

811
00:44:58,174 --> 00:44:58,464
Kevin: Yeah.

812
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,220
Rob: It was great to go back
to where it all started.

813
00:45:01,628 --> 00:45:07,898
Kevin: Yes, uh, this, uh, incarnation
of Starfleet Academy is set, uh,

814
00:45:07,928 --> 00:45:12,908
like it is a location shoot at the
Donald C. Tillman Water Reclamation

815
00:45:12,908 --> 00:45:15,578
plant just outside of Los Angeles.

816
00:45:15,758 --> 00:45:21,818
It has a, it is a sewage plant, uh,
but it has a Japanese garden attached

817
00:45:21,818 --> 00:45:23,858
to it, and I have looked it up.

818
00:45:23,858 --> 00:45:27,218
That Japanese garden is open
to the public still today.

819
00:45:27,278 --> 00:45:31,328
You can visit it Mondays to
Thursdays, I think it said on their

820
00:45:31,328 --> 00:45:34,478
website, uh, and it's free entry!

821
00:45:34,628 --> 00:45:39,278
So next time, if, if ever I find
myself in Los Angeles again with a

822
00:45:39,278 --> 00:45:43,118
spare afternoon, I might just see
if I can go and visit Starfleet

823
00:45:43,118 --> 00:45:45,218
Academy, because it is still there.

824
00:45:45,635 --> 00:45:46,685
Rob: Find that tree.

825
00:45:46,685 --> 00:45:47,870
Find that tree and see

826
00:45:47,933 --> 00:45:49,073
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

827
00:45:49,870 --> 00:45:50,430
Rob: have been sitting

828
00:45:51,233 --> 00:45:52,403
Kevin: Yeah, a lovely spot.

829
00:45:52,433 --> 00:45:56,483
Uh, I think the, the location
is pretty, uh, pretty special.

830
00:45:56,483 --> 00:46:02,753
It had been seen before in Star Trek,
uh, TNG, season one, episode eight,

831
00:46:02,783 --> 00:46:07,163
Justice, which is the one where
Wesley falls into the plant bed and

832
00:46:07,163 --> 00:46:12,293
the, the god of the scantily clad
aliens wants to put him to death.

833
00:46:12,533 --> 00:46:16,673
That is the same Japanese garden that
we're seeing there as Starfleet Academy.

834
00:46:17,063 --> 00:46:21,143
Uh, and it comes back in, in
future episodes of, of Voyager

835
00:46:21,143 --> 00:46:22,673
and stuff like that too.

836
00:46:22,685 --> 00:46:24,305
Rob: think it's in Deep
Space Nine as well.

837
00:46:24,305 --> 00:46:24,605
I think

838
00:46:24,743 --> 00:46:25,403
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

839
00:46:25,403 --> 00:46:31,583
There was a, a Homefront episode I
think that may uh, had a, uh, at least

840
00:46:31,643 --> 00:46:37,943
a, a redoing of the matte painting
extension of this, uh, uh, location, if

841
00:46:37,943 --> 00:46:40,343
not actual sh shots on that location.

842
00:46:40,823 --> 00:46:45,893
But yeah, I feel like this is Starfleet
Academy in its most fully fleshed form

843
00:46:45,893 --> 00:46:50,153
that we have experienced before, and The
First Duty we spend the most time there.

844
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:51,380
Rob: Definitely.

845
00:46:51,380 --> 00:46:53,330
We see, um, the people in charge.

846
00:46:53,330 --> 00:46:58,610
We see the cadets, uniforms, the the, we
find a little bit about the, the structure

847
00:46:58,610 --> 00:47:03,650
of there and how like Nova Squadron is
like the elite of the elite and how,

848
00:47:03,710 --> 00:47:08,210
you know, everyone wants to get within
there, into that, uh, into that group.

849
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:13,400
Uh, they're getting close to their
graduation, so it's uh, how, how they

850
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:19,880
run through disciplinary action and,
uh, the culture of Starfleet is, and

851
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:21,860
Starfleet Academy is kind of hinted at.

852
00:47:21,860 --> 00:47:25,160
We see, you know, nice little
tidbits of it revealed.

853
00:47:26,218 --> 00:47:32,303
Kevin: Yeah, the, um, the superintendent
that we meet is Admiral Brand.

854
00:47:32,303 --> 00:47:37,343
I noticed that she is an admiral, but,
uh, as far as I can tell Chancellor

855
00:47:37,343 --> 00:47:39,353
Nahla Ake is still a captain.

856
00:47:39,810 --> 00:47:40,970
Rob: Captain and Chancellor.

857
00:47:40,990 --> 00:47:41,210
Yep.

858
00:47:41,233 --> 00:47:46,013
Kevin: So you, you back, back here in
the 24th century, it was an admiral's

859
00:47:46,033 --> 00:47:50,203
posting to be the head of Starfleet
Academy, but it, that has been a, a

860
00:47:50,203 --> 00:47:52,543
demoted position in the 32nd century,

861
00:47:52,885 --> 00:47:56,395
Rob: Well, yeah, I guess it's because,
you know, they now have, you know,

862
00:47:56,935 --> 00:47:59,545
they have a ship that is their campus.

863
00:47:59,635 --> 00:48:06,775
So an admiral is only, you know, is
always bound, uh, you know, tera bound.

864
00:48:07,075 --> 00:48:11,293
So having a captain, that means they
can fly around and do excursions.

865
00:48:11,293 --> 00:48:11,833
Kevin: Yeah.

866
00:48:12,343 --> 00:48:18,673
Uh, the location of this, uh, which is
established mostly by matte paintings

867
00:48:18,703 --> 00:48:23,509
of the Golden Gate Bridge in the
background is pretty canonically

868
00:48:23,749 --> 00:48:27,679
on the north side of the bridge.

869
00:48:28,204 --> 00:48:31,144
To the east, uh, inland side.

870
00:48:31,414 --> 00:48:36,694
And, uh, it has fluctuated a little
bit in the JJ Abrams movies, for

871
00:48:36,694 --> 00:48:40,984
example, Starfleet Academy was on
the southern side of the bridge.

872
00:48:41,254 --> 00:48:45,124
Uh, but fair enough, in an alternate
universe, maybe they made a slightly

873
00:48:45,124 --> 00:48:46,711
different city planning decision.

874
00:48:46,824 --> 00:48:47,549
Rob: Exactly.

875
00:48:48,254 --> 00:48:53,654
Kevin: In most places, including both here
in Star Trek, The Next Generation and in

876
00:48:53,654 --> 00:48:58,474
the far off future in Starfleet Academy,
it's on the north side of the bridge.

877
00:48:58,504 --> 00:49:01,984
And that today is an area
called Horseshoe Bay.

878
00:49:02,344 --> 00:49:03,874
It's fairly unpopulated.

879
00:49:03,874 --> 00:49:07,264
I'm told It has a small
museum on the spot.

880
00:49:07,594 --> 00:49:12,094
Uh, but in the various matte paintings
and CG renderings of this space over

881
00:49:12,094 --> 00:49:17,164
the years, it has been quite expanded
with, uh, futuristic buildings and

882
00:49:17,414 --> 00:49:19,894
Tilly's tree as we learned in Discovery.

883
00:49:20,018 --> 00:49:21,655
Rob: Tilly's tree has moved around a bit

884
00:49:21,868 --> 00:49:23,038
Kevin: it has moved around a bit.

885
00:49:23,858 --> 00:49:25,645
Rob: Sometimes it's there
and sometimes it's not.

886
00:49:25,734 --> 00:49:31,464
Kevin: There's a great webpage at, uh, the
Ex Astris Scientia website called Locating

887
00:49:31,464 --> 00:49:36,838
Starfleet Buildings in San Francisco,
where they go shot by shot, period by

888
00:49:36,838 --> 00:49:41,998
period, uh, through the history of Star
Trek and go, well, in this movie, at this

889
00:49:41,998 --> 00:49:44,218
time it was here and looked like this.

890
00:49:44,218 --> 00:49:47,338
And at the end, they have a, an
overhead map where they mark everything.

891
00:49:47,488 --> 00:49:50,368
Very satisfying for people who
love these details like I do.

892
00:49:50,678 --> 00:49:53,698
So, uh, yeah, take a look in the
show notes if you would like to.

893
00:49:53,978 --> 00:49:59,438
It has already been updated for Starfleet
Academy with, uh, with what has changed

894
00:49:59,438 --> 00:50:03,128
and what has not in, in this incarnation.

895
00:50:03,218 --> 00:50:06,068
It has changed even since
we saw it in Discovery.

896
00:50:06,908 --> 00:50:11,078
So yeah, have a look if
you want those details.

897
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:12,410
Rob: Please do.

898
00:50:12,830 --> 00:50:17,210
Um, so yeah, it was good to finally
watch that episode to see the,

899
00:50:17,210 --> 00:50:21,440
the turmoil within, uh, Wesley of,
uh, his loyalty to his squadron.

900
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:28,580
Uh, the, uh, intimidating nature of
Locarno, but also his ultimate, uh,

901
00:50:28,670 --> 00:50:34,082
taking of full responsibility, um,
which plays out later in Lower Decks.

902
00:50:34,185 --> 00:50:36,645
Jean-Luc Picard's
relationship with Wesley.

903
00:50:37,158 --> 00:50:40,938
Kevin: Yeah, the dressing down in the
ready room is a really powerful scene.

904
00:50:41,355 --> 00:50:42,435
Rob: Very much so.

905
00:50:42,495 --> 00:50:49,425
And just the way I was watching it, like
it just, Wesley always seemed out of

906
00:50:49,425 --> 00:50:54,915
focus a little bit and anytime it cut
back to Picard, he was in like full HD.

907
00:50:55,142 --> 00:51:01,022
I'm there going, don't, come on, don't
do that to, my man Wesley, come on.

908
00:51:01,245 --> 00:51:04,175
Kevin: Some of these TNG episodes
do suffer from that, where the focus

909
00:51:04,175 --> 00:51:09,425
was close enough for, for TV at the
time, and, uh, from one shot to the

910
00:51:09,425 --> 00:51:11,670
next, it goes soft and not soft.

911
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:14,752
Rob: Definitely a case of, you
know, Patrick Stewart's our star.

912
00:51:14,782 --> 00:51:16,012
We'll keep him in focus.

913
00:51:16,102 --> 00:51:16,462
Okay.

914
00:51:16,462 --> 00:51:21,112
Or we've gotta quickly get, we've
gotta quickly get, uh, Wesley in shots.

915
00:51:21,625 --> 00:51:23,695
Kevin: I'll make this
simple for you, Mr. Crusher.

916
00:51:23,785 --> 00:51:25,795
Either you tell them what happened or

917
00:51:25,987 --> 00:51:27,097
Rob: Oh, I will.

918
00:51:27,547 --> 00:51:29,407
Uh, his scenes with Boothby were great.

919
00:51:29,467 --> 00:51:30,317
I love Ray Walston.

920
00:51:30,337 --> 00:51:31,567
He's such a wonderful actor.

921
00:51:31,567 --> 00:51:34,557
I used to love him on, uh, I've
mentioned this before on Picket

922
00:51:34,557 --> 00:51:36,527
Fences was his last big thing.

923
00:51:36,837 --> 00:51:39,067
Uh, but yeah, tantalizing stuff.

924
00:51:39,127 --> 00:51:42,817
I know you know this more than
I do, but they mention the

925
00:51:42,817 --> 00:51:44,227
incident that happened at the

926
00:51:44,245 --> 00:51:44,755
Kevin: Yeah.

927
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,935
As far as I can tell, we never,
we never learn what that was.

928
00:51:48,187 --> 00:51:48,697
Rob: Right?

929
00:51:48,727 --> 00:51:51,397
'cause we know about the, the
bar fight where he got stabbed,

930
00:51:51,580 --> 00:51:52,990
Kevin: Yeah, that was somewhere else.

931
00:51:53,050 --> 00:51:55,643
Uh, yeah, that was somewhere
else on a star base somewhere.

932
00:51:56,270 --> 00:51:57,410
Rob: So that's all we know.

933
00:51:57,410 --> 00:52:00,170
That tantalizing bit of going,
that thing that happened.

934
00:52:00,170 --> 00:52:01,130
You were very angry.

935
00:52:01,583 --> 00:52:02,633
Kevin: Yeah, exactly.

936
00:52:02,663 --> 00:52:02,993
Yeah.

937
00:52:02,993 --> 00:52:04,343
It's, uh, it's good.

938
00:52:04,973 --> 00:52:08,563
Nice to have a mystery still
about uh, Jean-Luc Picard.

939
00:52:09,233 --> 00:52:10,313
Uh, yeah, I enjoyed it too.

940
00:52:10,313 --> 00:52:13,853
I enjoyed the confidence of not
having to tell us that bit either,

941
00:52:13,853 --> 00:52:15,443
letting it be Wesley's story.

942
00:52:15,833 --> 00:52:17,393
Um, yeah.

943
00:52:17,393 --> 00:52:17,813
Good stuff.

944
00:52:17,873 --> 00:52:23,273
I, speaking of world building, I love
the stuff about, you know, maneuvers

945
00:52:23,273 --> 00:52:28,043
around Saturn and we, we got you,
we got a picture of you just as you

946
00:52:28,043 --> 00:52:32,663
were, uh, passed into sensor range
of a, of a probe around one of the

947
00:52:32,663 --> 00:52:35,363
moons, and yeah, it was, it was, yeah.

948
00:52:35,393 --> 00:52:36,233
Nice stuff.

949
00:52:36,830 --> 00:52:41,300
Rob: Using, yeah, using, creating that
reality of what could be captured.

950
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:46,190
So it wasn't like it said, we got a photo
at that particular moment, as opposed

951
00:52:46,190 --> 00:52:50,090
to, oh, we've got perfectly high quality
footage that runs for the entire time.

952
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:55,010
It's you working within the reality
of this, a advanced society, which

953
00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:56,110
I find really, really exciting.

954
00:52:56,183 --> 00:52:56,663
Kevin: Yeah.

955
00:52:56,693 --> 00:52:58,853
I like the procedural of the hearing.

956
00:52:58,853 --> 00:53:02,603
I like, you know, Wesley standing
up and narrating the footage

957
00:53:02,603 --> 00:53:03,803
from his flight recorder.

958
00:53:03,803 --> 00:53:06,388
Like all that stuff, I
really, I eat that stuff up.

959
00:53:06,815 --> 00:53:07,325
Rob: Yes.

960
00:53:07,330 --> 00:53:08,045
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

961
00:53:08,465 --> 00:53:12,845
Um, so it was good to finally watch
it, to see that whole and seeing that

962
00:53:12,845 --> 00:53:18,215
balance of what we get in Starfleet
Academy of the older statesmen and

963
00:53:18,635 --> 00:53:20,255
how the kids deal with it as well.

964
00:53:20,945 --> 00:53:28,505
that kid that, you know, how Nova Squadron
debate and argue and, uh, and, and sort

965
00:53:28,505 --> 00:53:33,875
of like close ranks around each other,
and then how Picard and the rest of the

966
00:53:33,875 --> 00:53:35,915
crew try and help solve this mystery.

967
00:53:36,113 --> 00:53:39,713
Kevin: It's a great example of the
things that Starfleet cadets can

968
00:53:39,713 --> 00:53:43,043
do in a Star Trek story that you
could never get away with writing

969
00:53:43,043 --> 00:53:44,873
that story about Starfleet officers.

970
00:53:45,143 --> 00:53:51,503
We decided to break the rules and got
caught and now we're gonna lie about it.

971
00:53:51,713 --> 00:53:56,573
And our, our dilemma is, should we
keep lying about it or come clean?

972
00:53:56,573 --> 00:54:01,193
Like that is not a story you can tell
about Starfleet officers who are, who

973
00:54:01,193 --> 00:54:07,313
are in, in the chain of command and, you
know, will appear next week as a, uh,

974
00:54:07,343 --> 00:54:09,713
fully a fully fledged member of the crew.

975
00:54:09,713 --> 00:54:13,193
But it is, these are the kinds of
mistakes that cadets can make and

976
00:54:13,193 --> 00:54:17,453
I'm really looking forward to this
new series because we get to hear

977
00:54:17,453 --> 00:54:18,833
some of these kinds of stories.

978
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,930
Rob: Yeah, literally going, you know, if
I was in your position, I would do it.

979
00:54:24,353 --> 00:54:24,863
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.

980
00:54:25,340 --> 00:54:26,090
Rob: You're going, great.

981
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:26,960
Awesome.

982
00:54:27,140 --> 00:54:28,490
That you could never get that.

983
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:28,730
Yeah.

984
00:54:28,730 --> 00:54:30,860
Like you said, you could never
get that with, you know, fully

985
00:54:30,860 --> 00:54:33,290
fleshed Starfleet officers.

986
00:54:33,318 --> 00:54:33,608
Kevin: Yeah.

987
00:54:34,453 --> 00:54:40,063
We return to this same location
for Starfleet Academy in Star Trek:

988
00:54:40,093 --> 00:54:45,553
Voyager, season five, episode four,
In The Flesh, which is another episode

989
00:54:45,553 --> 00:54:49,303
we've talked about before, I think
in our going undercover episode.

990
00:54:49,303 --> 00:54:54,793
We talked about it because Chakotay
is, is very much undercover as, uh, as

991
00:54:54,793 --> 00:54:58,663
a, as a love interest in this episode.

992
00:54:59,124 --> 00:55:03,574
Rob: Brings out his dogue
quality, brings out his dogue.

993
00:55:04,086 --> 00:55:07,866
Kevin: This is the one where
Voyager happens upon a simulation

994
00:55:07,866 --> 00:55:12,816
of Starfleet Academy being
created by Species 8472, preparing

995
00:55:12,934 --> 00:55:13,354
Rob: is there

996
00:55:14,076 --> 00:55:14,856
Kevin: Federation.

997
00:55:15,066 --> 00:55:17,856
And Boothby just happens
to be the big commander.

998
00:55:19,416 --> 00:55:23,256
He is this, he is the ranking
officer in this simulation.

999
00:55:24,214 --> 00:55:26,404
Rob: can get Ray Walston
back, put him in charge.

1000
00:55:27,096 --> 00:55:27,606
Kevin: Exactly.

1001
00:55:27,611 --> 00:55:33,021
I, I feel like even though it's
not the real Boothby, Boothby is

1002
00:55:33,021 --> 00:55:37,731
somewhat, he suffers from too much
of a good thing, in this episode.

1003
00:55:38,211 --> 00:55:41,151
He's kind of stops being Boothby,
which is kind of fine because

1004
00:55:41,151 --> 00:55:42,441
it's not the real Boothby.

1005
00:55:42,441 --> 00:55:48,066
But, uh, but yeah, there's a little too
much, uh, uh, "sunny boy" about, uh, uh,

1006
00:55:48,071 --> 00:55:50,871
uh, in, in this episode for my liking.

1007
00:55:51,227 --> 00:55:53,117
Rob: Because he never does
any of that in First Duty.

1008
00:55:53,117 --> 00:55:57,077
It's really beautifully written
about how, you know, that beautiful

1009
00:55:57,077 --> 00:56:02,957
line of going, you know, you
are at the age now that I was.

1010
00:56:03,425 --> 00:56:04,175
Kevin: Yeah, he is.

1011
00:56:04,235 --> 00:56:04,625
He is.

1012
00:56:04,810 --> 00:56:10,775
He is non sentimental, if anything, in
First Duty where, yeah, I think they

1013
00:56:10,775 --> 00:56:15,425
write him a bit differently here, which
you can, you can look past because

1014
00:56:15,425 --> 00:56:17,735
it's an alien pretending to be Boothby.

1015
00:56:17,765 --> 00:56:24,725
But yeah, that, that, um, that last
moment in First Duty where he runs

1016
00:56:24,725 --> 00:56:28,775
off the list of names in Nova Squadron
and he goes, Yeah, I know them.

1017
00:56:28,775 --> 00:56:29,795
I know them all.

1018
00:56:29,795 --> 00:56:31,925
And he walks off and Picard's like, oh

1019
00:56:32,372 --> 00:56:32,592
Rob: Ooh.

1020
00:56:35,225 --> 00:56:37,265
Kevin: That's, that's the
Boothby I know and love.

1021
00:56:37,419 --> 00:56:40,179
Rob: But yeah, that we get little
tantalizing hints about like

1022
00:56:40,179 --> 00:56:45,339
the social activities of what
they do through the simulation.

1023
00:56:45,339 --> 00:56:50,015
Like, you know, what their nightlife
is like at, uh, at Starfleet Academy.

1024
00:56:50,105 --> 00:56:51,755
At least mentioned in, In The Flesh.

1025
00:56:52,343 --> 00:56:54,083
Kevin: They expand on it a bit here.

1026
00:56:54,083 --> 00:56:56,123
They mention Starfleet Academy.

1027
00:56:56,123 --> 00:57:00,083
They also mention, uh, the
Starfleet Command complex.

1028
00:57:00,083 --> 00:57:05,033
Like apparently the simulation encompasses
the entire Starfleet Command complex,

1029
00:57:05,243 --> 00:57:10,283
including this like nightclub or bar
where, where a few scenes are set.

1030
00:57:10,793 --> 00:57:13,403
They mention Starfleet
Headquarters as well.

1031
00:57:13,403 --> 00:57:17,363
So there, there is a bit of ambiguity
around these, these things and

1032
00:57:17,363 --> 00:57:19,163
like, what is their hierarchy.

1033
00:57:19,553 --> 00:57:24,713
But the sense I get is that Starfleet
Headquarters includes Starfleet Command

1034
00:57:25,223 --> 00:57:29,933
and Starfleet Academy and that, that
that Japanese garden area is, are

1035
00:57:29,933 --> 00:57:32,003
the grounds of Starfleet Academy.

1036
00:57:32,033 --> 00:57:32,513
Yes.

1037
00:57:32,723 --> 00:57:34,733
But Starfleet command is right next door.

1038
00:57:34,793 --> 00:57:35,933
Like you could walk there.

1039
00:57:36,290 --> 00:57:36,650
Rob: Yes.

1040
00:57:36,650 --> 00:57:39,350
The Academy and the Command
are right next to each other.

1041
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:39,710
Yeah.

1042
00:57:40,883 --> 00:57:45,896
Kevin: the TV series we have the, uh,
the War College as well, established.

1043
00:57:46,524 --> 00:57:47,904
Rob: something we didn't
get to talk about.

1044
00:57:47,904 --> 00:57:48,144
Yeah.

1045
00:57:48,144 --> 00:57:49,524
The, the, and what that meant.

1046
00:57:49,554 --> 00:57:53,424
'cause they had the War College
during the years of the Burn.

1047
00:57:53,844 --> 00:57:58,884
Um, and this is the, this is the first
year of the, the Academy opening up.

1048
00:57:58,884 --> 00:58:03,354
And it's working at the same time
as, um, the War College, which

1049
00:58:03,354 --> 00:58:06,384
is run by a guy that looks like
Arnold Rimmer from Red Dwarf.

1050
00:58:07,331 --> 00:58:08,081
Kevin: He does too.

1051
00:58:08,501 --> 00:58:09,791
I hadn't even picked that.

1052
00:58:10,033 --> 00:58:13,393
Rob: So this is way before,
you know, this is Voyager time.

1053
00:58:13,393 --> 00:58:19,063
So this is way before the, uh, James
T. Kirk Pavilion or the unknown, I

1054
00:58:19,063 --> 00:58:23,923
had looked up, there is no actual
Turner within the canon of they, they

1055
00:58:23,923 --> 00:58:25,753
make such a point of talking about.

1056
00:58:25,771 --> 00:58:27,091
Kevin: Yeah, they said it so many times.

1057
00:58:27,091 --> 00:58:28,891
I was like, am I supposed
to know who that is?

1058
00:58:29,743 --> 00:58:29,833
Rob: And

1059
00:58:29,941 --> 00:58:32,491
Kevin: We, we, we don't need to know
every name, but when they say it that

1060
00:58:32,491 --> 00:58:35,791
often, uh, I think that there could
have been a little more done to make

1061
00:58:35,911 --> 00:58:37,711
clear that this is, this is someone new.

1062
00:58:38,318 --> 00:58:42,133
Rob: They've literally got a wall
with every single character who

1063
00:58:42,133 --> 00:58:44,293
has ever appeared in Star Trek on.

1064
00:58:44,503 --> 00:58:45,043
That's an

1065
00:58:45,616 --> 00:58:46,096
Kevin: divisive.

1066
00:58:46,096 --> 00:58:51,646
Some people are like, this is a point
I have made before that if, if every

1067
00:58:51,646 --> 00:58:55,906
story that we have seen is referenced
again and again, and every character

1068
00:58:55,906 --> 00:58:59,236
is referenced again and again, it
actually kind of shrinks the size of

1069
00:58:59,236 --> 00:59:02,176
the world to just what we have seen.

1070
00:59:02,206 --> 00:59:06,646
If everyone knows each other's names, and
have heard all of these stories as well,

1071
00:59:06,946 --> 00:59:10,756
there isn't a sense of a wider universe
out there going on around them, which

1072
00:59:10,756 --> 00:59:12,616
is the thing that I find satisfying.

1073
00:59:13,186 --> 00:59:18,706
That wall having like 90% of the names
are characters we have seen some,

1074
00:59:18,706 --> 00:59:23,416
some of them in just one episode,
it, it, it does shrink the universe.

1075
00:59:23,416 --> 00:59:24,616
And I do feel that.

1076
00:59:25,006 --> 00:59:31,996
I also see the counter argument that
the pe they, the true heroes, the people

1077
00:59:31,996 --> 00:59:37,651
worth telling stories about are the ones
that they would make these historical

1078
00:59:37,651 --> 00:59:40,531
documents about, and we have seen

1079
00:59:40,658 --> 00:59:42,048
Rob: Those poor people.

1080
00:59:43,111 --> 00:59:46,021
Kevin: and that there is a wider
universe out there, but most of what

1081
00:59:46,021 --> 00:59:47,851
goes on out there is more mundane.

1082
00:59:47,851 --> 00:59:50,701
And we are seeing all the
good stuff in these episodes.

1083
00:59:50,911 --> 00:59:51,931
I don't know about that.

1084
00:59:51,931 --> 00:59:55,651
I think I am more on the side of,
I would prefer, I would prefer

1085
00:59:55,651 --> 01:00:00,331
one in 10 recognizable names and
the sense that there's the 90% out

1086
01:00:00,331 --> 01:00:02,401
there that we've never heard of yet.

1087
01:00:02,803 --> 01:00:03,013
Rob: Yeah.

1088
01:00:03,403 --> 01:00:05,023
Now I wanna get your opinion on this.

1089
01:00:05,503 --> 01:00:06,343
Go back to it, sorry.

1090
01:00:06,673 --> 01:00:10,513
Um, like you see in the
background, they have flashes of

1091
01:00:10,513 --> 01:00:12,973
quotes from people on the walls.

1092
01:00:13,498 --> 01:00:17,248
And, but they're like doing
quotes from episodes where people

1093
01:00:17,398 --> 01:00:19,138
were just having conversations.

1094
01:00:19,528 --> 01:00:20,728
So I'm there going, how

1095
01:00:21,301 --> 01:00:22,501
Kevin: everything recorded?

1096
01:00:22,501 --> 01:00:22,831
Yeah.

1097
01:00:23,923 --> 01:00:27,628
Rob: And you know, what we learned
from the, uh, that bad episode from,

1098
01:00:27,988 --> 01:00:32,338
uh, a Strange New World season three,
apparently everything is filmed.

1099
01:00:32,698 --> 01:00:34,318
Um, but

1100
01:00:35,236 --> 01:00:39,846
Kevin: Spock, uh, you know, Spock
said something in a cave once,

1101
01:00:39,956 --> 01:00:44,006
and now it's projected in 3D
in Michael Burnham's quarters.

1102
01:00:44,006 --> 01:00:45,136
Yeah, there's been a bit of that.

1103
01:00:45,448 --> 01:00:49,228
Rob: Yeah, that, that, that part of me
takes, it, takes it outta me a little bit.

1104
01:00:49,228 --> 01:00:52,468
If it was done like in big speech section
or something like that, I go, okay,

1105
01:00:52,468 --> 01:00:53,698
everyone heard it, it was recorded.

1106
01:00:53,878 --> 01:00:56,308
I'm there going, dude, this
was done like in a cave.

1107
01:00:56,758 --> 01:00:57,298
was,

1108
01:00:57,346 --> 01:00:58,336
Kevin: a secret mission.

1109
01:01:01,966 --> 01:01:02,356
Yeah.

1110
01:01:03,958 --> 01:01:07,138
Rob: But, yeah, they're definitely
taking tantalizing elements that

1111
01:01:07,138 --> 01:01:12,268
they've touched on in previous
episodes, but now expanding it into a

1112
01:01:12,268 --> 01:01:14,548
full show is, is really, really fun.

1113
01:01:14,548 --> 01:01:17,038
And another one I was gonna
bring, I watched it last night and

1114
01:01:17,038 --> 01:01:19,168
then I led into watching Beyond.

1115
01:01:19,168 --> 01:01:24,358
I actually watched the 2009 film and I
hadn't watched that in over 10 years.

1116
01:01:24,556 --> 01:01:24,796
Kevin: Yeah.

1117
01:01:24,796 --> 01:01:26,736
There's a fair bit at
Starfleet Academy there.

1118
01:01:26,736 --> 01:01:27,976
I haven't watched that recently.

1119
01:01:28,438 --> 01:01:31,948
Rob: Yeah, it's the, the, the issues
I have with it are still there.

1120
01:01:32,128 --> 01:01:36,868
Um, and, uh, I think like, 'cause
I always thought Beyond was better,

1121
01:01:37,018 --> 01:01:40,618
but rewatching them back to back,
I think, I think I still prefer,

1122
01:01:41,008 --> 01:01:43,648
um, the first film in many ways.

1123
01:01:43,948 --> 01:01:48,028
Um, but yeah, there is that element
you've seeing the Kobayashi Maru actually

1124
01:01:48,298 --> 01:01:55,222
recreated, um, is funny and so much of
them on campus walking around in their

1125
01:01:55,222 --> 01:01:59,452
cadet outfits and going to class, even
though Karl Urban looks like he's 50.

1126
01:02:00,347 --> 01:02:02,927
Even though he was like quite
a young man at that time.

1127
01:02:03,364 --> 01:02:03,984
Kevin: Yes indeed.

1128
01:02:04,253 --> 01:02:09,173
Rob: But yeah, so I watched the, uh,
the, the 2009 Kelvin movie, uh, to get

1129
01:02:09,173 --> 01:02:14,603
a little hint of, you know, that first
attempt at doing a, you know, what had

1130
01:02:14,603 --> 01:02:17,993
been wanting to be done for 30, 30 years,

1131
01:02:18,506 --> 01:02:19,136
Kevin: Yeah.

1132
01:02:19,286 --> 01:02:23,546
Uh, I mean, speaking of the Kobayashi
Maru, the one I was gonna bring up

1133
01:02:23,546 --> 01:02:26,726
was, uh, Star Trek II: The Wrath
of Khan, the opening of which

1134
01:02:26,726 --> 01:02:33,836
takes place on a simulation of the
Enterprise Bridge and everyone dies in,

1135
01:02:36,986 --> 01:02:37,706
Yeah, indeed.

1136
01:02:38,006 --> 01:02:44,516
And, um, and then Kirk and Spock
walk out onto a teeny tiny set, which

1137
01:02:44,516 --> 01:02:48,896
if you read the lore, like there is
basically one shot of Starfleet Academy.

1138
01:02:49,166 --> 01:02:55,136
In the background, the signage actually
says Starfleet Training Command.

1139
01:02:55,406 --> 01:03:00,176
So this is even before the establishment
of Starfleet Academy as, as a term.

1140
01:03:00,176 --> 01:03:04,406
I think we have heard mentions of back
at the academy and stuff, but yeah,

1141
01:03:04,406 --> 01:03:07,646
when they came to creating it for the
first time in Star Trek II, they, they

1142
01:03:07,646 --> 01:03:09,356
labeled it Starfleet Training Command.

1143
01:03:09,446 --> 01:03:15,146
And it is, it is a tiny hallway in front
of a door and then there is a wide shot

1144
01:03:15,266 --> 01:03:18,776
where Kirk and Spock are relatively small
and there's a bunch of foreground detail.

1145
01:03:19,076 --> 01:03:23,066
And apparently to stretch their
budget, that foreground is actually

1146
01:03:23,066 --> 01:03:26,876
a miniature, and the camera is
shooting through a miniature at the

1147
01:03:26,876 --> 01:03:28,676
tiny piece of set that they had.

1148
01:03:28,736 --> 01:03:31,736
And it makes it look like
a bigger space than it is.

1149
01:03:31,988 --> 01:03:32,708
Rob: I love that.

1150
01:03:32,708 --> 01:03:34,268
I love that trickery.

1151
01:03:34,268 --> 01:03:36,758
Love that old, old school trickery.

1152
01:03:37,058 --> 01:03:39,938
Um, but yeah, great seeing
the Kobayashi Maru acted out.

1153
01:03:39,938 --> 01:03:43,148
That beautiful shot of Kirk
entering the set for the first time.

1154
01:03:43,298 --> 01:03:45,938
All the back lighting and smoke.

1155
01:03:46,058 --> 01:03:46,448
Oh,

1156
01:03:47,351 --> 01:03:47,831
Kevin: Lights.

1157
01:03:48,488 --> 01:03:48,818
Rob: Yep.

1158
01:03:48,968 --> 01:03:50,618
Seeing Kirstie Alley, try her

1159
01:03:50,741 --> 01:03:51,221
Kevin: Yeah.

1160
01:03:51,221 --> 01:03:54,941
Saavik complaining that it wasn't a
fair test of her command abilities.

1161
01:03:54,941 --> 01:03:55,231
Yeah.

1162
01:03:55,601 --> 01:03:56,151
Good stuff.

1163
01:03:56,151 --> 01:03:59,501
And "Physician, heal thyself." is
my favorite line in that scene.

1164
01:04:00,143 --> 01:04:00,323
Rob: Yeah.

1165
01:04:00,323 --> 01:04:00,783
Excellent.

1166
01:04:00,883 --> 01:04:01,923
Excellent work.

1167
01:04:02,343 --> 01:04:03,243
"Aren't you dead?"

1168
01:04:05,081 --> 01:04:06,041
Kevin: Such good stuff.

1169
01:04:06,071 --> 01:04:06,641
It's, yeah.

1170
01:04:06,671 --> 01:04:06,941
Yeah.

1171
01:04:07,091 --> 01:04:10,241
The first 12 minutes of that movie are
at Starfleet Command, and then, yeah,

1172
01:04:10,241 --> 01:04:13,151
if you watch that, it's hard not to
watch the rest of the movie right away.

1173
01:04:13,943 --> 01:04:14,543
Rob: Well, yeah.

1174
01:04:14,933 --> 01:04:17,423
It's, it's, it's so, it's so moorish.

1175
01:04:17,603 --> 01:04:18,833
You just wanna more and more.

1176
01:04:19,013 --> 01:04:19,403
Come on.

1177
01:04:19,403 --> 01:04:19,973
It's incredible.

1178
01:04:19,973 --> 01:04:21,083
It's the perfect Star Trek film.

1179
01:04:21,941 --> 01:04:24,671
Kevin: There are a bunch of connections
in that, like the, in that first 12

1180
01:04:24,671 --> 01:04:29,321
minutes, like McCoy gives, uh, Kirk
the birthday present of the glasses.

1181
01:04:29,681 --> 01:04:34,361
We have Chancellor Ake on the bridge
reading with actual glasses, uh,

1182
01:04:34,361 --> 01:04:37,001
that were established as, as rare.

1183
01:04:37,001 --> 01:04:42,131
You don't find many with the lenses still
intact says McCoy in the 23rd century.

1184
01:04:42,413 --> 01:04:42,953
Rob: Yes.

1185
01:04:43,181 --> 01:04:46,121
Kevin: So, so yeah, ake has
done something special to

1186
01:04:46,223 --> 01:04:48,053
Rob: But weren't they
a gift from Dr. McCoy?

1187
01:04:48,058 --> 01:04:49,068
And they will be again.

1188
01:04:49,338 --> 01:04:50,818
That's the beauty of it.

1189
01:04:50,843 --> 01:04:52,108
I'll give you $100.

1190
01:04:52,338 --> 01:04:54,048
Is that lot?

1191
01:04:54,048 --> 01:04:56,858
Mmm.

1192
01:04:57,731 --> 01:05:03,341
Kevin: Uh, yeah, and, and there's the
Kobayashi Maru in 2009 where Kirk, uh,

1193
01:05:03,371 --> 01:05:05,111
spends the whole time eating an apple.

1194
01:05:05,111 --> 01:05:09,641
And then we have, uh, Caleb,
uh, biting into a, a very

1195
01:05:09,641 --> 01:05:11,501
spicy apple in Ake's quarters.

1196
01:05:11,501 --> 01:05:13,571
So the connections just, just keep coming.

1197
01:05:13,963 --> 01:05:16,538
Rob: And then it's used
as an element of trust.

1198
01:05:16,718 --> 01:05:20,528
'cause then she throws, is it a
still fire fruit or is it an apple?

1199
01:05:21,011 --> 01:05:21,311
Kevin: Yeah.

1200
01:05:22,118 --> 01:05:25,688
Rob: I can kind of get, like, Ake still
has glasses 'cause she's like, you

1201
01:05:25,688 --> 01:05:28,088
know, you know, hundreds of years old.

1202
01:05:28,298 --> 01:05:31,808
Um, and so, and connecting with
the past and stuff like that.

1203
01:05:31,808 --> 01:05:34,298
But there's been a lot of discourse
about like, 'cause one of the

1204
01:05:34,298 --> 01:05:37,478
characters is, uh, in a wheelchair.

1205
01:05:37,478 --> 01:05:41,648
One of the other characters is in glasses,
which is great representation all there.

1206
01:05:41,858 --> 01:05:44,408
But the whole thing of going,
that's not Roddenberry's future,

1207
01:05:44,408 --> 01:05:46,088
I'm going, oh, good heavens.

1208
01:05:46,568 --> 01:05:49,268
Oh, just, just stop.

1209
01:05:49,708 --> 01:05:50,458
Just stop.

1210
01:05:52,121 --> 01:05:56,201
Kevin: Well, I think we have, uh, we
have covered these, these episodes and

1211
01:05:56,201 --> 01:05:58,181
taken a look back on Starfleet Academy.

1212
01:05:58,181 --> 01:05:59,681
I am ready to go.

1213
01:05:59,681 --> 01:06:01,151
Let's, let's bring on more episodes.

1214
01:06:02,033 --> 01:06:04,013
Rob: Do we have 10 episodes this season?

1215
01:06:04,106 --> 01:06:05,606
Kevin: Yeah, we have 10 episodes.

1216
01:06:06,113 --> 01:06:06,743
Rob: Eight to go.

1217
01:06:07,076 --> 01:06:12,746
Kevin: One of which has been described
as a love letter to Deep Space Nine, Rob.

1218
01:06:13,503 --> 01:06:14,903
Rob: I thought you were gonna
say there's one that, because

1219
01:06:14,903 --> 01:06:18,443
you leaned in, uh, viewers, he
leaned right into the view screen.

1220
01:06:18,443 --> 01:06:20,933
I thought he was gonna say, 'cause I
think I've seen some of the trailers.

1221
01:06:21,113 --> 01:06:22,793
It's gonna get a bit sexy.

1222
01:06:23,396 --> 01:06:24,806
Kevin: Oh, I'm sure that'll happen.

1223
01:06:26,036 --> 01:06:29,516
You don't hire this many, this many
young, attractive people and not throw

1224
01:06:29,516 --> 01:06:30,911
them into bed together now and then.

1225
01:06:30,983 --> 01:06:35,783
Rob: The actor playing Caleb is
built like an, you know, excuse my

1226
01:06:35,783 --> 01:06:37,433
language, like a brick shithouse.

1227
01:06:37,723 --> 01:06:39,803
How, and apparently he had to lose weight.

1228
01:06:40,496 --> 01:06:40,976
Kevin: Wow.

1229
01:06:41,063 --> 01:06:43,073
Rob: He, he's like a
bodybuilder apparently.

1230
01:06:43,223 --> 01:06:45,593
And like he is huge.

1231
01:06:45,773 --> 01:06:47,093
He is massive.

1232
01:06:47,238 --> 01:06:49,223
He, he craps bigger than me.

1233
01:06:50,786 --> 01:06:55,046
Kevin: There's a shot where he, uh, he's
like standing in the, in the light and he

1234
01:06:55,046 --> 01:06:59,456
is got his shoulder forward to show you
that one bump that no one else can get.

1235
01:06:59,693 --> 01:07:00,833
Rob: Nobody, nobody.

1236
01:07:02,143 --> 01:07:04,053
Just stop it.

1237
01:07:04,091 --> 01:07:07,091
Kevin: The that if, if he
moved it would all come apart.

1238
01:07:07,181 --> 01:07:07,541
Yeah.

1239
01:07:07,668 --> 01:07:11,543
Rob: I, I started, I get, I, I broke
out into a sweat just looking at that.

1240
01:07:12,221 --> 01:07:16,571
Kevin: I love watching him
standing next to, uh, Holly Hunter.

1241
01:07:18,191 --> 01:07:19,931
And they are using it.

1242
01:07:19,931 --> 01:07:24,701
There are, there, like in Beta Test
there was a shot going up some stairs

1243
01:07:24,701 --> 01:07:27,101
where they put the two tall men
at the top of the stairs and they

1244
01:07:27,101 --> 01:07:30,451
put Holly Hunter halfway down the
flight of stairs talking up at them.

1245
01:07:30,771 --> 01:07:36,641
So they are, they are emphasizing, if
anything, her, her diminutive size, which

1246
01:07:36,653 --> 01:07:37,133
Rob: nature.

1247
01:07:37,253 --> 01:07:40,283
Um, I'll be very interested to
see, uh, this love letter to Deep

1248
01:07:40,283 --> 01:07:42,173
Space Nine, what it focuses on.

1249
01:07:42,323 --> 01:07:45,233
'cause there are many elements of
Deep Space Nine that make it unique.

1250
01:07:45,551 --> 01:07:48,101
Kevin: We just had a love letter
to Deep Space Nine in Lower Decks.

1251
01:07:48,101 --> 01:07:50,621
So I'm curious what they feel
they've got to give us here.

1252
01:07:51,053 --> 01:07:52,823
Rob: Let's just go
around the pylons again.

1253
01:07:52,823 --> 01:07:53,753
Just fly around those

1254
01:07:56,436 --> 01:07:57,941
Kevin: Could still be there?

1255
01:07:57,941 --> 01:07:59,741
It couldn't possibly still be there.

1256
01:08:00,353 --> 01:08:03,803
Rob: Terok Nor could not be
there, especially with the Burn.

1257
01:08:03,803 --> 01:08:06,923
It would've, yeah, it would've
been around a thousand.

1258
01:08:06,923 --> 01:08:08,693
Oh, Maybe

1259
01:08:09,521 --> 01:08:10,841
Kevin: Did it have a warp reactor?

1260
01:08:10,841 --> 01:08:11,801
I don't think it did.

1261
01:08:11,801 --> 01:08:13,331
Maybe, you know, Maybe it did

1262
01:08:14,123 --> 01:08:16,703
Rob: We could, well, maybe it's
been set up as some sort of like

1263
01:08:16,703 --> 01:08:21,383
a museum piece on Bajor and we
have been to Bajor for so far.

1264
01:08:21,863 --> 01:08:22,133
Yeah.

1265
01:08:22,451 --> 01:08:25,511
Kevin: So Bajor was not behind
the, the Betazed curtain.

1266
01:08:26,123 --> 01:08:27,563
Rob: No, no, it was not.

1267
01:08:27,773 --> 01:08:30,353
They were, they were serving
ice cream to the children.

1268
01:08:30,469 --> 01:08:35,989
Kevin: The green child was hired for
the, the, look that she could give of,

1269
01:08:36,049 --> 01:08:37,969
uh, shut up and give me my ice cream.

1270
01:08:38,221 --> 01:08:39,001
Rob: Yeah, yeah.

1271
01:08:39,631 --> 01:08:42,931
you you have one particular
skill set you lean into that.

1272
01:08:43,159 --> 01:08:43,549
Kevin: Yeah.

1273
01:08:43,639 --> 01:08:44,179
So good.

1274
01:08:44,419 --> 01:08:46,062
Rob: But yes, Star Trek is back.

1275
01:08:46,062 --> 01:08:46,932
It is exciting.

1276
01:08:46,932 --> 01:08:48,012
It is, uh, fun.

1277
01:08:48,012 --> 01:08:49,332
It is good to watch.

1278
01:08:49,632 --> 01:08:53,052
And we are, uh, we are back into it.