Kevin: Hello and welcome back to Subspace Radio.
It's been a minute.
I'm Kevin Yank,
Rob: and I'm Rob Lloyd,
Kevin: and we are back with the series premiere of Starfleet Academy.
Rob: Two episodes, a show that has been decades in the making.
I think the first rumblings of it were like, back in the late seventies
that was possibly thinking of like doing the movie as a, as a young Kirk
and Spock meeting at the academy.
It's been in, in on the cards for over, you know, 40 years.
Kevin: Yeah, the origin story is always a temping place to go.
And Star, Star Trek is no stranger to looking backwards.
I mean, the Star Trek 2009 movie was very much like an attempt at that.
Kirk, Spock and Bones meet at the ca at Starfleet Academy.
But, uh, but we haven't done the proper series until now.
And I feel like they, they, they never quite got it right.
Um, and the question is, did they get it right now?
So we'll talk about that in a bit.
But it's also, uh, Star Trek's 60th anniversary this year.
So it feels timely to be attempting something momentous like this.
Rob: Exactly.
Exactly.
And especially with everything up in the air, you can't, if you're a, uh, into
the Star Trek world as much as we are, we can't help but be aware of outside
factors when it comes to the world with Paramount being bought by Skydance.
So the future of, uh, not only the Star Trek franchise, but the company that
runs it, Paramount, what their plans are, what they're hoping to do, and um,
and what will come about with this new leadership and their very publicized, uh,
political leanings and political support.
So, we'll, uh, we'll see when we move into the 60th year of Star Trek, how,
uh, it survives, thrives, and, uh, has a place within the world at the moment.
Kevin: Yeah.
But right now we have two new episodes of Star Trek before us, so we'll judge
it on its merits, as we always do.
Rob: Exactly.
Just on what we see on screen.
Kevin: Yeah.
Before we get into Starfleet Academy, maybe just a couple a thoughts about Star
Trek: Khan that happened during the break.
Rob: Yes.
Let me know.
We had a bit of a chat about it, uh, uh, last year in 2025 about
the upcoming audio series Khan.
Um, and you have had a chance to, uh, listen and indulge in the audio world.
Uh, Kevin Yank, tell me how was Khan?
Kevin: It's real good.
Uh, I would be here for more Star Trek audio dramas.
Um, yeah, really well performed, amazingly produced.
The soundtrack is killer.
Like I would just listen to the score of this thing.
Uh, um, really well done.
At nine episodes.
It's meatier than I think most people would expect when they hear
the premise of how did Khan go from Ceti Alpha V to Star Trek II.
Um, some things happen, more happen you would expect.
Rob: And is it a, um, is it each episode, like half an hour or 45?
What's the
Kevin: Yeah, it's about TV length episodes.
Yeah.
Every, every one lands on a cliffhanger, like, uh, just
like any prestige drama does.
The actors are, are really good, especially as the, the top billed
one, uh, Wrenn Schmidt, who plays Lieutenant Marla McGivers, uh, who you
may remember from Space Seed is the, the lieutenant who gets, uh, banished
along with, um, Khan and his crew.
She is a standout.
I loved her in For All Mankind.
And here she is really good as well.
Rob: Who is she in For All Mankind.
I'm a huge For All Mankind fan as well.
Kevin: She's Margot Madison in, For All Mankind.
Rob: Right.
Kevin: She starts in the first series of like a flight controller, and,
and, uh, by later in the series, her, her role develops, shall we say.
She is on quite an adventure at the moment in, uh, in For All Mankind.
But yeah, she's got this, uh, kind of like nerdy, serious voice that,
that I think goes really well, um, with the Marla McGivers uh, character
who, way back in the sixties, like she was, she was a history nerd, and
that's what fall in love Khan and his people, or at least get seduced by them.
And, uh, yeah, watching her or hearing her kind come to grips with this decision
she's made and figure out what her place is among this group of super-people
who are stranded is, is quite a drama.
Um, we get a hint at it in Star Trek II, where Khan kind of says to Kirk, you
killed my wife, or, or, I, I hold you responsible for the death of my wife.
And, uh, and so, you know, it's not gonna go well for poor Marla McGivers.
Rob: No.
Kevin: But more happens than you would expect.
There's a new alien race in this story.
They happen to be telepaths.
I probably won't say more than that, but I think that is something that it
plays differently in an audio drama.
I think having, having telepaths on screen, I guess with, with,
uh, voiceover as we've heard with Betazoids in the past is, is one thing.
But playing it in in audio drama is really interesting, 'cause they use audio
effects to kind of sell the fact that what you're hearing is not a physical
voice, it's a, it's a mental voice.
And, and the actor who plays the, uh, head of.
The, the aliens is very interesting as well.
We definitely get a, we get a, a satisfying answer I would say to how
did this safe planet that Kirk marooned them on become an unsafe planet?
Uh, turn from a tameable wilderness to a, a desert, uh, uh, hellscape?
Like that is, that is answered.
What happens to Khan's wife is answered.
A bunch of other stuff happens too.
It's, it's meaty and satisfying.
I'd say.
There was plenty of story for the TV series that was, or the mini series
that was originally, this was originally written for by Nicholas Meyer.
Um, yeah.
Good, good stuff.
And a, a fun framing narrative with, uh, captain Sulu on the Excelsior and, uh,
young Tuvok who, uh, who disagrees with his captain's orders in, in this story.
Um, fun stuff there too, in that framing narrative.
So, yeah, if you, if you haven't heard it, I highly recommend it.
It was delicious every second.
I'd say the only downside maybe was some of the secondary cast.
I don't know if it's an audio drama thing, but like, in order to
make it clear who's who, you kind of have to write each character
with a distinguishable ethnicity.
So there's like, there's the Russian guy who's obviously going to be the
bad guy because has a Russian accent.
Like is a lot of that going on.
There's a lot of people with, with very, uh, very large accents to
help with the identifiability.
And it, it does make it a, a legible audio drama, but, uh, some of the characters I
think are a little cartoony as a result.
Rob: Well, the audio drama format is such a, a big part of the Doctor Who
franchise, obviously, uh, like Big Finish has been creating original Doctor Who
audios with original actors from the TV show, whether it be the classical,
modern have been coming in and now they've established their own place.
They're officially endorsed by the BBC and stuff.
So it's become a, a big part of that franchise at least.
But it's a fascinating, uh, concept for Star Trek to pick up because I don't
think it's really been a part of its, um, uh, uh, way of producing stories.
Uh, it's a very unique way of doing it.
I think this is their first big push, but it does take a, a specific
style to, you know, to describe what action's going on, but not,
not making it too obvious and yeah, getting distinct voices of characters.
'Cause if you get, uh, a, a scene flooded with more than two characters,
you, you can easily get lost and hang on, whose voice is what?
Uh, so, um, but that's a chunky, meaty, uh, lot of nine, you know, you know,
45 minute to hour episodes is, um, uh, in exploring a part that's, you
know, Nicholas Meyer has developed.
Sounds like a, fascinating concept.
Kevin: It is epic.
And the final, the final twisty episode where like the, the big, like, you
know, the big thing happens that ends this series, that is the reason for the
series happening is satisfying, like what it says about Khan's character.
I don't want to go into it too much and spoil it, but like, you know,
Khan's a fairly one dimensional villain as we've seen him before.
And I think if there is one aspiration, it's to make him
two dimensional, if not three dimensional, uh, in, in, in this form.
Um, and I'd say they succeeded doing that.
Like, uh, I was emotionally invested in Khan's decisions by
the end of this series, which is pretty big achievement, I'd say.
Rob: That's a, that's a great achievement.
That's really, really good.
Uh, so where can people, uh, listen and, uh, get, uh, get this into their eardrums?
Kevin: Oh, wherever, wherever fine podcasts can be found.
If you, if you're listening to us in a podcast app, just
search for Star Trek Khan.
I'm sure it'll turn up, but otherwise, it'll be on the startrek.com website
for, for the foreseeable I would say.
Um, yeah, good stuff.
Uh, let's talk about Starfleet Academy's big premiere episodes, plural.
We're gonna talk about, uh, episode one Kids These Days,
and episode two Beta Test today.
Um, what did you think of it, Rob?
The big, uh, the big launch of our new series.
Rob: Look, it, it, it was, it was pretty good.
It was pretty good.
I actually genuinely enjoyed, uh, myself.
I thought it was a smart decision to set it in the far future Discovery era.
So like Discovery season three era, um, uh, after the Burn and stuff like that.
I thought that was a great way of creating new lore, exploring lore
that was only touched on a little bit.
Also, I, you know, I missed out on a season of, uh, Discovery.
I kind of did season three.
I skipped season four, went straight to the final one.
Um, so I came in a little bit fresher than, uh, other people would be.
Um, but I think that's what their whole push is, is, is to, you know,
be a new springboard to bring people in who wouldn't normally watch.
My big concern is something that is probably gonna stay
with me throughout the season.
The whole, you know, young adult fiction, uh, teen drama, uh, side of it, which is
the big push of it, is kind of something is for me, one of the weaker sides of
the show, which is the main push of it.
Kevin: When you say it's for you, it's the weaker side, are you saying that
it's just not for you or is it that, that that itself lessens the show?
Rob: I think some of it was written a bit, uh, cringey and,
and presented, but it's, yeah.
Uh, but the stuff that worked for me is what I was surprised about.
It's balances out half and half.
You have that Youth Teen Drama high school esque type of, it's almost,
uh, Degrassi Junior Star Trek.
Um, uh, but I was quite surprised at how they balance it out with like
diplomacy and, um, time on a bridge and, you know, uh, Star Trek's,
you know, pure Star Trek stuff.
So I was quite, anytime that stuff was happening, I was like a pig and swill.
The other stuff, I had to sort of like, you know, white knuckle it through.
However, how about you?
Kevin: Yeah, I, uh, I loved it and I, I find it's even stronger on second viewing.
The first viewing is like, it is a visual spectacle.
There's a lot coming at you.
There's a lot of details that that slip by on first watch that when you
go back, like I completely missed Stephen Colbert's Digital Dean
announcements on the first watch.
And then I was like, oh yeah, there was meant to be Colbert in there.
And then I went back and watched and he is everywhere.
Rob: He is everywhere.
Kevin: And he is a hilarious as well.
Rob: There's some great gags in there.
Kevin: Yeah, I, I love how much they have balanced the self seriousness
of Star Trek, uh, the earnest commitment to ideals, with, like,
kids who know nothing making mistakes.
I think that is a powerful combination that kind of, I think back to when they
launched Star Trek Enterprise and they promised us a rawer Starfleet, just as
humanity was taking to the stars for the first time, they were like, this is
before they knew what they were doing.
They're gonna make mistakes and be fallible and they very much were not.
And, and I think the fact that these are cadets gives them permission to
be flawed and to make mistakes and to learn from those mistakes in a way that
has been difficult to find room for in Star Trek storytelling in the past.
So we've already got a strong flavor of that.
And, and I agree with you that the, the adult, the grownup cast, uh, of
officers that run the Athena really balance that well so that it's, I I feel
like it's peanut butter and chocolate.
Like you get a little taste of this and just when it's getting a bit
much, they flip it to the other one.
And I, I love both for that reason.
In the premiere, there were a couple of moments that they swung at something
and it didn't quite work for me.
It was a little too cute or, or cutesy.
Um, but most of them worked and, and I think their, their
batting average is very high.
Already after just a pilot and a first episode, I'm amazed at how
quickly it is finding its feet.
I'm in love with what they're doing and I can't wait to find
out more about these characters.
I, I feel like we've only just scratched the surface on all of them, and, and
it's, that is fun too, is to, you can see they are setting up mysteries about
all of these characters that they plan to tell stories about where, where,
I feel like that is something that Star Trek had lost a bit recently,
that it was very much in service of the plot and the, they would leave
us with, with very shallow characters that were barely a name at times.
And, and here it's all about the characters and I'm, I'm
so happy about that too.
Rob: Yeah, we definitely got with the first two episodes
as well that, that feel.
like the first episode, which was the pilot, was a 70 minute episode.
So we had to get through a lot, establish a lot of characters, a lot of setup.
There's a lot of the usual modern Star Trek thing of here's a big
space thing and we need to do, um, scientific mumbo jumbo to solve the
problem in a quick amount of time.
A lot of running around while fighting is happening and shooting of lasers.
But then balancing that with the second episode where there was
no action and it was just pure, let's do Star Trek diplomacy from
an adult and a young person level.
And I'm there going, that's a good, that it's great to see that they released that.
You can see why they did the first two
Kevin: It's a nice contrast, you're saying?
Rob: Contrast to go, we can, we can do space, but we can
also do just the Academy.
Um, to find that balance of go, this is the whole show,
uh, which I really appreciated.
Kevin: I've been saying for a long time that my favorite Star Trek is people
like standing in a room and debating stuff, and that, that was Beta Test.
Uh, and it was great that they could break away from those serious
diplomacy scenes to like Caleb literally sitting on the fence and,
you know, all that, all that stuff.
Glitching out the, uh, security officers and getting oozed.
I love how the, the cadet hijinks create space for the,
the serious diplomacy stuff.
Rob: Yes.
And um, I mean, I think for me, just because I'm of a certain age, um,
but their secret weapon is Academy Award-winning Holly Hunter, for heaven's
Kevin: Holy moly.
She's
Rob: are, are you kidding me?
Are you actually kidding me?
We have got Holly Hunter for an entire season
Kevin: Yeah, I know.
Rob: Oh.
Kevin: I know she's gonna be, she's not gonna be, uh, yeah, aloof.
I, I feared that the chancellor would be someone whose office you
go and visit when you've been bad and they make one speech an episode.
But no, she is all over this show and having a great time
doing it by all appearances.
Um, yeah, I love her.
I, I have not been familiar with the works of Holly Hunter.
I at her CV and her, her list of film credits is a list of movies
that I never got around to watching.
So this is kind of my introduction to Holly Hunter,
Rob: Oh, welcome.
Welcome to the incredible world of Holly Hunter.
Yeah, she is just, um, I'll, it's that usual thing, I think
we've talked about it before.
You know?
Uh.
How Star Trek does sex, and also how Star Trek does quirky.
And I remember, like I've heard in interviews, Alex Kurtzman
wanted to make, you know, uh, Ake, um, uh, let's make her quirky.
So that it, it's, it's, it would come across as forced if it was
any other actor of a lower ability.
And because, uh, of Holly Hunter's skill, the fact, you know, they take the time
for her to adjust her captain's seat, she has her feet on the chair, she
reads a book with glasses, she walks around barefoot to get the pinkies out.
Um, uh, and the fact that she's of the same race as Pelia.
Kevin: She's part Lanthanite, she
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: So yeah, she is, and Pelia is the only other lantite we've ever met.
And there is a consistency between these characters, more than just that they're
white women of a certain age, but, uh, but they, they are both, they have the same
brand of quirky that I, I really like.
Yeah.
Rob: Yeah, Carol Kane takes it to the Carol Kaney extreme.
Yeah, this is sort of like a more subdued, so, um, Ake has her
Grateful Dead albums in her room.
Kevin: She's so good.
Uh, I think there was just like, there was one moment where she was
curled up in the captain's chair where I was like, isn't it red alert?
I think that's a bit much.
Uh, but everything else was great.
Um, so, and yeah, she's, uh, she, she is interesting and active in moments
where I feel like any other Star Trek actor would be still, and, and nothing.
Like, yeah, there are shots of her just reacting in silence to things
that, that I could eat like a meal.
So yeah, she's, she's great.
I am so happy to have her leading our cast.
Uh, Paul Giamatti.
I don't think we're gonna see much more of him this season until probably the,
the bookend finale of Caleb's story.
Rob: He'll come in the start, and come in at the end.
Kevin: I love Paul Giamatti generally.
But what I had seen of him in the clips and the, the trailers for
this show made me worry a little.
I think out of context, they were a bit overdone, but in the context
of the show, it all worked for me.
He was so good.
My favorite line he says was when he goes, "Ooh, when you lie to me,
captain, I'll admit: it's hot."
Rob: And that was a great scene.
That was incredible.
That was what I was going, you know, when I'm sitting back and I'm going,
we have got a, a, a wide shot, uh, staying on pretty much, it didn't
really break that much, we've got Paul Giamatti, Holly Hunter, you know,
battling it out with their wits, with their diplomacy, with their barbs.
And it just, I'm there going, we're spoiled.
We're like, it's kinda like what happened when Peter Capaldi joined Doctor Who.
I went, I can't believe we have got this caliber of actor and
artist in, in our little show.
I'm there going just sit back and enjoy the fact we have got these
incredible talents and coming out, hanging out in Star Trek was, and
what they bring to it was great.
Kevin: Yeah, add to that list, Tatiana Maslany, who is Anisha
Mir, uh, Caleb's mother seen very briefly here in one scene.
Uh, she, she, she earns her paycheck in that one scene in
Rob: What an incredible, we've got Tatiana Maslany as well.
I'm there going, oh my, yeah, we're just spoiled.
And she just pops in for the f she's gotta pop back again, obviously.
Um, but um, yeah, she's a superstar as well.
Incredible Emmy award winning, uh, superstar actor.
Kevin: Yeah.
Uh, Caleb, uh, I enjoyed, he's walking a fine line of likability, I feel like.
The, some of
Rob: They definitely pushed it in episode two, definitely, in in Beta Test.
You there going oh, oh.
Kevin: Uh, I appreciate, I appreciate that, that it's not just he's,
he's grumpy for half of the first episode and then he's a golden boy.
Like, like that he's still learning things and will be, he's still
learning things because, uh, yeah.
Uh, much as I enjoyed Prodigy, I think those, those ragtag
characters became model officers a little quick for my liking.
Rob: Well, they had Janeway to show them whole, the whole way
as soon as they got on the ship.
Kevin: That's right.
Oh, we even got some name checks of, uh, of our Prodigy characters.
Um, when Sam was talking to the Doctor, asking him to be her mentor,
she goes, oh, you were a mentor to Dal and Murf and Captain Gwyndala.
Rob: Yes, but no mention of, of Zero, no of of Rok-Tahk.
And he looked very, he very, very taken back when Gwyndala was mentioning they go,
there's something there, there's enticing.
Give us season three of Prodigy!
'nobody
Kevin: some of Rok-Tahk's.
Uh, I don't know if it's just the one, uh, I think it's just the one
who's wandering around Starfleet Academy, that rock creature.
Rob: And like, the perfect representation from Prodigy wasn't
sorta like, tried to, oh, let's do it in real, you know, you know,
Kevin: Yeah.
It was, it was just more realistic enough that you could buy it
as a walkin' talkin' rock.
Yeah, for sure.
Rob: Um, yes.
Kevin: I'm just going through the cast list here.
Lura Thok as the, uh, the Half Klingon, half Jem'Hadar, uh, tough
talking, uh, head of the Cadets.
Rob: I was, I was a bit curious about how this one would work out and uh hmm.
Uh, what, what a, what a blend of species to
Kevin: Yes.
Rob: a, a Klingon and a Jem'Hadar.
Kevin: Uh, I thought was great.
When she's getting, uh, Caleb to drop and give me, gimme 10 in the hallways.
Um, it was like, okay, this is something.
We'll see where this goes.
By the time she was like going, I can always spot the runner
in the, uh, in, Beta Test.
I, I was completely sold.
She is, she's having a great time.
I love that she is mean and finds it funny how mean she is.
Rob: Well, she, um, uh, the act of playing her is a actor comedian, so
they do stand up as well, you see that, you see that hint of like, even the
lines of, is this multiple choice, uh
Kevin: Gina Yashere is,
Rob: Gina Yashere.
British, British actor, performer.
She's, uh, doing a great job.
But they're not overusing her.
There's a, they, they, they, that nice balance of how much
we see her, um, is great.
I love having a Klingon that likes gardening and birdwatching.
Kevin: Jay-Den Kraag.
Yes.
Played by Karim Diané.
I, I think there's a lot more to this guy than that we are going to
learn in a future episode or two.
Rob: much him in episode two, definitely.
Kevin: I'm very happy for them to like, you know, pepper, pepper
these stories out in small doses.
Uh, he is very intriguing and, and I, I, I would say very charismatic as a Klingon.
I, I can't wait to learn more about him.
Uh, Kerrice Brooks as SAM, the Series Acclimation Mil, uh, holo
holographic character, programmed to feel 17 and designed to
reconnect with, uh, organic life.
Uh, she is hilarious and funny.
Her, her cadence of saying things being off is, is really, uh, delightful.
Um, yeah, good stuff.
Rob: Yeah, she's really, really good.
I like the fact, the, the nice little drop of bat that she's a, a, a photonic,
think there's the proper phrasing.
She doesn't like to be called a hologram.
Um,
Kevin: I think that goes back to a Voyager episode, actually.
Rob: Yes.
Yeah, I do remember.
Yeah.
Um, and it'd be interesting to see her relationship with, uh, the Doctor develop.
'Cause of course he doesn't want to, you know, do anything other than
just his job and everyone annoys him.
Unless you join up for the opera.
It's great to have Robert Picardo back.
How wonderful is it having Picardo
Kevin: so good.
He's good.
He's even better than in Prodigy, um, I liked him there too.
Uh, yeah, they're, they're, they're doing, the writers are doing great work with him.
I feel like they know just how to use him.
He is, he is the same old doctor in that he is just as awkward
and full of himself as ever.
But he has, he has learned humility on top of that, so that it's an amazing blend.
Like he does not want to be SAM's mentor because he, he knows better now.
Uh, and yet he's a great mentor as a result.
Rob: Picardo's one of those great theatrical American actors that gives
me a vibe of, say, René Auberjonois.
So when he was cast as the Doctor, I went, well, he's filling in that role.
Like, you know, even, even in even, uh, Leonard Nimoy in the original series
or, um, in, in TNG was the Captain, Picard, uh, with, um Patrick Stewart.
But Picardo has such a theatrical flare about him and what he brings to screen.
And so he just elevates a scene so much more with this heightened
performance that's never over the top.
But it is that sense of he's not just working, he's working every
element of the frame to get out the best of, of his performance.
And he hasn't missed a beat, you know, he
Kevin: he's so
Rob: For, what, 30
Kevin: The, yeah, opening with tricorder, medical tricorder.
Just like
Rob: Medical tricorder!
Kevin: So good.
When, uh, when Genesis, played by Bella Shepard, who is another
character that I feel like there's a lot of stories yet to be told,
Rob: and lots of new species, like she's a new species.
Um, the arrogant jock guy who's got a heart somewhere.
He's a new species that can walk in, uh, in deep for eight
Kevin: Darem Reymi, played by George Hawkins.
Yes.
Rob: Um, but I'm intrigued to find out more about Genesis's character.
Her father's an admiral, so
Kevin: so a Starfleet brat.
Yeah.
But
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: Yeah, I can't wait to see what, you know, she's, she's young and
inexperienced too, in her own way, and I can't wait to see what mistakes she makes.
Rob: But so, um, em embracing and open like SAM is struggling
and clearly being bullied and, and, and not making connections.
And Genesis just goes, I got you.
I got you.
And that type of stuff is a great, great thing to see, a great, um, a
great character that's genuinely open
Kevin: When Genesis was trying to rescue Darem who was out on the
hull getting the, uh, serial number from the programmable matter.
And, uh, first of all, there, I love some of the subtle like this, this
episode was put together so well.
It had the time.
I think we've talked in recent episodes about some of these, some of these
Star Trek episodes in Strange New Worlds have felt a little rushed.
Like they came together at the last minute and they missed details and
this felt like they went back twice and three times to get it right.
When she's trying to rescue him from the hull, she tries to transport
'em off and the computer reminds us transporters are offline.
And it's, I feel like it's the third time we hear transporters offline
from the computer in, in the last few minutes, but they like, they take
a minute to realize this is a Star, Star Trek show that people may be
watching as first time Star Trek fans.
And so they tell us again and they take the moment to tell us again.
And I really like that, that, that, um.
They don't skip the details out of expediency, they go through the process.
Uh, and then she tries to use Commander Thok's, uh, access code,
which she overheard in Sickbay.
And that doesn't work because her voice print doesn't, doesn't match.
So like these, like escalating attempts that kind of world build about like
what are, what are the facilities that our characters can draw on?
What are the constraints that they are under?
And then finally she just says, hello, can anyone help me?
I'm having an emergency.
And, and, uh, the Doctor appears, please state the nature of the medical emergency.
It's so satisfying those layers leading up to this, this character based payoff.
Um, just that, that thirty second moment, um, for me is an, is like that is in a
nutshell what I love about this show.
Rob: Yes, taking that time definitely to establish the realities and the
protocols and so there, so that if you're watching for the first time,
you can just go, oh, they're not just skipping things or short, you know,
taking shortcuts, um, which is vital to establish the integrity of the show.
That it's something that can be believed and they don't just, uh, do
shortcuts to get to a simple answer.
Kevin: If there's one weakness in all of this, I'd say it's the bridge crew.
They do take the time to show us their holographic profiles while, uh,
while uh, Chancellor Ake is studying up on the shuttle to, to the Athena.
Rob: And introduces all of their names.
Kevin: Yeah.
They, they, they've learned from that mistake.
Uh, but, uh, those characters are still pretty paper thin at this point.
They, they, to me, are, are hairdos and makeup jobs at this point.
Each of them has had about one line of dialogue in order to
express their character so far.
So there's, there's plenty of opportunity space still there, but,
Rob: and we didn't see any of them in episode two, so it was
Kevin: I think that's just how this, how this, uh, show is designed is that
that bridge crew is very secondary.
We'll see them now and then when there is starship stuff to do.
Rob: A training mission.
An outing, an excursion.
Kevin: Yeah, they were certainly charismatic.
Like I liked when, when, um, uh, Ake said to put the ship in Academy mode and
they said, which program should we run?
And, and the, the, uh, lady at, at, uh, at ops goes, Ooh, that's a fun one.
You know, uh, had, they had charming moments, but yeah, there's, there's
a lot more to do there to turn those into people I care about.
Rob: Definitely, definitely.
Um, it was good to have, uh, uh, representatives from Betazed show up,
and I like that whole establishment in episode two of, they've been out
of the federation since the Burn.
Um, 'cause, uh, because there was a big, uh, arc in season four, I believe, of
getting Earth to join the Federation again in Discovery, which I, missed.
Um,
Kevin: And that, that's our last, uh, regular cast member of the cadets as well.
Zoë Steiner playing Tarima Sadal, the the young, um, daughter of
the president of, uh, Betazed.
Rob: Yes.
With her in, uh, her blockers, 'cause she feels too much.
Kevin: Yes, that's a Tam Elbrun callback.
Uh, if you're keeping track from TNG, uh, the Tin Man
episode that we talked about not
Rob: We have talked about that one.
Yes, that's right.
Kevin: Yeah, so there is precedent for Betazoids who feel a little too much.
Uh, one thing I did notice is none of these Betazoids have the
big uh, uh, contact lenses on.
I guess they, they had to tell these actors, we won't make
you put contact lenses on.
Rob: I know.
Yeah, because they, they were doing it right up to, um, Picard because they,
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
It's very recent.
that's a that's a pretty big change.
Rob: A massive change.
And they haven't explained it yet,
Kevin: They haven't.
Yeah, I, I don't think they will.
I think they'll just move on from that.
I really liked the, the, uh, world building of Betazed and, and nine
light years of space walled themselves off from the rest the galaxy and
that, that wall coming down is what is, uh, being negotiated here.
I thought the negotiations were all really fascinating.
Like the, this is what the Federation is about.
This is why Betazed doubts it.
Like all of that stuff was, oh, delectable world building, like stuff
that, you know, Discovery had things I liked, but this was one of the things
I didn't like is Discovery gifted itself with a whole big galaxy of the
future by jumping ahead all of that time and did very little with it of,
Rob: You gotta spend more time with Michael Burnham.
Michael Burnham has so much to worry about and just I'm, you know,
you're just not considerate enough.
Kevin, think you really should, uh, take a minute to check.
Kevin: So I hope the world building continues, is what I'm saying.
Rob: I, I totally agree that that whole episode, the focusing on a planet and
a culture that we've got to know in Star Trek, and if you're seeing it
for the first time, welcome to it.
Um, but to take that time, why they are suspicious, why they are cautious.
Establishing the isolationism and the youth wanting to open up and see
the world, you know, connections to George and Gracie with, um, wanting
to see a humpback whale and seeing, you know, a, a a, a species so huge
that we are insignificant to them.
Kevin: Mm-hmm.
Rob: Um, those type of philosophies within one culture.
So it's not just, you know, this race, it's just got a pop, couple of bumps
on its face and they're all the same.
Going, no, the, the youth, the adults, the, all that range,
uh, was, was beautiful to see.
And then the solution at the end, of course, it's perfect Star Trek of
going, you know, we, we talk and we share, and we compromise and we balance.
And I'm, they're going, yeah, they've been doing this for 60 years, but
now it's being accused of being woke.
Kevin: I wonder if you felt the same.
There was something about the staging of the two podiums and the
crowd around it that, that really emphasized to me the awkwardness of
these galaxy defining negotiations happening on in a public forum.
It was weird.
It's, it's not something that Star Trek hasn't done before.
Like I think all the way back to Star Trek four, where the Klingon is grandstanding
in the galactic senate about Kirk, uh, you know, there shall be no peace as
long as Kirk lives all these sorts of
Rob: Remember this well, there shall be no peace as long as
Kirk… Now that's theatricality on a, on a, on a movie screen.
That guy
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
So we've had that set up before and for some reason back then, uh, I believed it
and for some reason here I didn't believe it and I can't quite put my finger on why.
Rob: Was it just because it was literally just at a school?
Kevin: Yeah, maybe.
Rob: Like it's, it felt like an assembly as
Kevin: Yeah, I needed a few more alien delegates.
I've,
Rob: Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm there going, this is like, I've been in these assemblies when you've got a year
level in and they don't want to be paying attention, you've got a kid with a zipper.
Um, the grand, you know, epic, uh, galactic scale of this whole
thing was kind of reduced a little bit when you're just going, eh,
they're just doing it in auditorium.
Kevin: Maybe it was just the step down from the production values
of that first movie length episode to, uh, an episode of the week.
Maybe that's what I was feeling as well.
Rob: It is definitely, you could tell that they've sorta like
they've created a, a modular set that can be shifted and changed to
represent many different things.
So they've put, they've got not as much money.
They've been saying a lot, we haven't got as much money as you think
we have, but they've using it as best they can to make it look, uh,
Kevin: They do have a lot.
Like I've the, that, that, that academy set is the largest
standing set in the United States.
Like the, they've combined two sound stages to make it happen.
Uh, so yeah, it is incredible having, having Bob Picardo up there
singing his opera, that is, uh, a counterpoint to the negotiations.
And when things go wrong in the opera, things go wrong in the negotiations.
It's, it, it was fun.
Rob: Lovely.
Even just the, like, the awkwardness of that scene, there was just some moments,
like even the awkwardness of the podiums.
'cause like they had wood, but then they had a clear barrier at the top.
And there was a
Kevin: going a little hard with the Starfleet deltas, I have to say.
Rob: Lot of deltas.
Deltas in the fireworks.
Kevin: The Athena bridge looks incredible, but there are two
things that bother me about it.
One is the, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna take some time to get used to the
programmable matter control surfaces.
Like when you just see the stations, they're just like gray,
uh, gray speckled rectangles.
Uh, they do turn into screens and things like that as needed for story purposes.
But when you just happen to see someone standing in front of a control
panel, it's pretty boring back there.
There's no, no, no blinky lights or, or pretty graphics.
But the second thing is all of the chairs on the bridge have a, have
a stand or a base that is in the shape of a white Starfleet delta.
And having every single chair have a white Starfleet delta under it is a bit much.
Like, use your logo sparingly, I feel, is a, is a lesson these
designers haven't learned.
Rob: Yeah, less is more sometimes.
Kevin: Yeah.
Anything you wanna talk about before we dive into the past
adventures of Starfleet Academy?
Rob: Um, yeah, I think you are right again about like Caleb walked
that fine balance of, you know, not completely golden boy shifted.
He's still got, he's still got those elements of like, part of it was quite,
you know, cringe and annoying and they're going, oh, he's so annoying.
But that's the whole point.
And then for him to get comeuppance for that, like getting sprayed with
the mucus and getting sprayed the snot.
Um, I think the forced tension between him and, uh, the young, uh,
Betazoid was a little bit forced.
I'm going, you've only known each other a couple of minutes and they're
putting in drama for the sake drama
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: So they can have that resolution.
Um, but I do like that point of, you know, he is, it's something
they're doing a lot in modern Star Trek of, you know, Michael Burnham,
Christopher Pike, and now, uh, Giorgiou and now, uh, Ake and Caleb as well.
Sort of like how the Federation is working against them, or how
they are like, you know, Burnham was a criminal brought back in.
Ake has, you know, like taken time off because of, you know, she's traumatized
by what happened 15 years ago.
Pike's run away because he's running away from his, uh, destiny.
It's a lot of people, those opening scenes are going, we need you back.
We need you back.
Kevin: I'm too old for this.
Rob: I can't do it.
I can't get back into it.
Kevin: Just when I thought I was out, they
Rob: yeah, pull me back in.
Um, but yeah, that balance of sort of like the relationship of Caleb and
Ake is developing at a nice pace and, um, the young actor playing Caleb has
got the sweetest job in the world.
He gets to do so many one-on-one scenes with Holly Hunter.
So lucky, lucky boy.
Kevin: What do you think of her office?
The, the, uh, the dark, uh, the dark den with the, uh, with the kind of curvy
seats around the fire made of, of tiles, again, featuring the, the Starfleet
Rob: So many frigging deltas.
Um, yeah.
And her display of, uh, vinyl records of The Grateful Dead.
So I'm there going, yeah, it's not very homely, but it is an office.
So I guess it's more, you know, trying to bring out the quirk.
Kevin: It has been said, it reminds people of, uh, Captain Kirk's apartment
at the start of Star Trek II, where it's full of old things and it has a similar
fireplace with curved tile surfaces.
I feel like they are, they're playing on that, and the fact that they're
both set in San Francisco works
Rob: Of course, of course.
No, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm very happy with it.
And those parts that were kind of, not annoying, but things that kind of
sat sat a little bit, uh, awkward for me is stuff that, um, was balanced
out beautifully with stuff I just went, this is really good, Star Trek.
So, um, I'm trying to phase out the, the din of negativity that
the internet always brings.
'Cause there's a lot to enjoy here.
No matter what type of Star Trek fan you are.
Kevin: I was, I was spoiled for, for good stuff that I am happy to overlook the, the
moment here, there that didn't quite work.
Yeah.
Rob: Two episodes in and I'm already enjoying it more than Discovery.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.
Uh, I am, I, I say it every season, but I'm already sad this is going
to be over in eight more episodes.
Rob: Well, yeah, we're not gonna, it, it, there's potential.
I mean, I'm there going, this is something that could go for a couple of years, but
Kevin: I think Alex Kitzman has said this is a series that
by design could go forever.
And I think what he means is there, the, the second episode starts with
like fall semester, and I think that there is gonna be a passage
of time here, and if this goes long enough, there will be graduations
and there will be new arrivals, and that this could be a rolling cast.
Rob: Yeah, exactly.
That.
It, it's, it's to find the formula of how to make it work, and they've
figured it out going, you know, the ship is also the campus and it could
be in one location, it can go to space.
It's sort of like you can have your cake and eat it too.
Kevin: Uh, it was fun to see Jett Reno back, uh, in episode
two, uh, played by Tig Notaro.
She had a fun scene.
Rob: Tig Notaro is always great and we will have some more appearances
from Discovery people, but, and she did great as a teacher.
What a great teacher.
Kevin: Yeah, she did good.
I hope that's not all we see of her, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was.
Rob: Yeah, probably maybe one or two appearances.
We've got Tilly coming up soon as well, so
Kevin: I think Tilly is very much just gonna be a one-off.
And, and maybe not even that big, like special appearance is kind
of what has been, uh, touted.
So I'm not expecting much, but I, I'll be curious to know whether Tig Notaro
is a recurring, a recurring face.
Rob: Yes.
Oh, and Boothby Memorial Park.
That was
Kevin: Oh, yes.
Rob: That was lovely.
Kevin: Speaking of Boothby, about Starfleet Academy, uh, this kickoff
of this new series set in this, uh, place feels like as good an
opportunity as any to reflect on other appearances of Starfleet Academy,
even if they were centuries before.
Uh, where do you wanna start, Rob?
Rob: Let's go with an episode that we have talked about before many,
many times, especially when we're in our, uh, our deep Lower Decks phase.
Let's go to The First Duty.
Not the first duty.
We're not doing a, any, uh, toilet humor here, thank you very much.
We're a sophisticated podcast.
Uh, so we're going all the way back to, uh, season five, episode 19 of TNG.
Um, uh, with The First Duty, with Nick Locarno, with Wesley
Crusher and, uh, Joshua Albert's, uh, tragic passing as well.
Um, so this has been mentioned many, many times and I had not seen this
episode when, uh, the big reveal at the end of that season of Lower Decks
was all about Nick Locarno's return.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: It was great to go back to where it all started.
Kevin: Yes, uh, this, uh, incarnation of Starfleet Academy is set, uh,
like it is a location shoot at the Donald C. Tillman Water Reclamation
plant just outside of Los Angeles.
It has a, it is a sewage plant, uh, but it has a Japanese garden attached
to it, and I have looked it up.
That Japanese garden is open to the public still today.
You can visit it Mondays to Thursdays, I think it said on their
website, uh, and it's free entry!
So next time, if, if ever I find myself in Los Angeles again with a
spare afternoon, I might just see if I can go and visit Starfleet
Academy, because it is still there.
Rob: Find that tree.
Find that tree and see
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: have been sitting
Kevin: Yeah, a lovely spot.
Uh, I think the, the location is pretty, uh, pretty special.
It had been seen before in Star Trek, uh, TNG, season one, episode eight,
Justice, which is the one where Wesley falls into the plant bed and
the, the god of the scantily clad aliens wants to put him to death.
That is the same Japanese garden that we're seeing there as Starfleet Academy.
Uh, and it comes back in, in future episodes of, of Voyager
and stuff like that too.
Rob: think it's in Deep Space Nine as well.
I think
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There was a, a Homefront episode I think that may uh, had a, uh, at least
a, a redoing of the matte painting extension of this, uh, uh, location, if
not actual sh shots on that location.
But yeah, I feel like this is Starfleet Academy in its most fully fleshed form
that we have experienced before, and The First Duty we spend the most time there.
Rob: Definitely.
We see, um, the people in charge.
We see the cadets, uniforms, the the, we find a little bit about the, the structure
of there and how like Nova Squadron is like the elite of the elite and how,
you know, everyone wants to get within there, into that, uh, into that group.
Uh, they're getting close to their graduation, so it's uh, how, how they
run through disciplinary action and, uh, the culture of Starfleet is, and
Starfleet Academy is kind of hinted at.
We see, you know, nice little tidbits of it revealed.
Kevin: Yeah, the, um, the superintendent that we meet is Admiral Brand.
I noticed that she is an admiral, but, uh, as far as I can tell Chancellor
Nahla Ake is still a captain.
Rob: Captain and Chancellor.
Yep.
Kevin: So you, you back, back here in the 24th century, it was an admiral's
posting to be the head of Starfleet Academy, but it, that has been a, a
demoted position in the 32nd century,
Rob: Well, yeah, I guess it's because, you know, they now have, you know,
they have a ship that is their campus.
So an admiral is only, you know, is always bound, uh, you know, tera bound.
So having a captain, that means they can fly around and do excursions.
Kevin: Yeah.
Uh, the location of this, uh, which is established mostly by matte paintings
of the Golden Gate Bridge in the background is pretty canonically
on the north side of the bridge.
To the east, uh, inland side.
And, uh, it has fluctuated a little bit in the JJ Abrams movies, for
example, Starfleet Academy was on the southern side of the bridge.
Uh, but fair enough, in an alternate universe, maybe they made a slightly
different city planning decision.
Rob: Exactly.
Kevin: In most places, including both here in Star Trek, The Next Generation and in
the far off future in Starfleet Academy, it's on the north side of the bridge.
And that today is an area called Horseshoe Bay.
It's fairly unpopulated.
I'm told It has a small museum on the spot.
Uh, but in the various matte paintings and CG renderings of this space over
the years, it has been quite expanded with, uh, futuristic buildings and
Tilly's tree as we learned in Discovery.
Rob: Tilly's tree has moved around a bit
Kevin: it has moved around a bit.
Rob: Sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not.
Kevin: There's a great webpage at, uh, the Ex Astris Scientia website called Locating
Starfleet Buildings in San Francisco, where they go shot by shot, period by
period, uh, through the history of Star Trek and go, well, in this movie, at this
time it was here and looked like this.
And at the end, they have a, an overhead map where they mark everything.
Very satisfying for people who love these details like I do.
So, uh, yeah, take a look in the show notes if you would like to.
It has already been updated for Starfleet Academy with, uh, with what has changed
and what has not in, in this incarnation.
It has changed even since we saw it in Discovery.
So yeah, have a look if you want those details.
Rob: Please do.
Um, so yeah, it was good to finally watch that episode to see the,
the turmoil within, uh, Wesley of, uh, his loyalty to his squadron.
Uh, the, uh, intimidating nature of Locarno, but also his ultimate, uh,
taking of full responsibility, um, which plays out later in Lower Decks.
Jean-Luc Picard's relationship with Wesley.
Kevin: Yeah, the dressing down in the ready room is a really powerful scene.
Rob: Very much so.
And just the way I was watching it, like it just, Wesley always seemed out of
focus a little bit and anytime it cut back to Picard, he was in like full HD.
I'm there going, don't, come on, don't do that to, my man Wesley, come on.
Kevin: Some of these TNG episodes do suffer from that, where the focus
was close enough for, for TV at the time, and, uh, from one shot to the
next, it goes soft and not soft.
Rob: Definitely a case of, you know, Patrick Stewart's our star.
We'll keep him in focus.
Okay.
Or we've gotta quickly get, we've gotta quickly get, uh, Wesley in shots.
Kevin: I'll make this simple for you, Mr. Crusher.
Either you tell them what happened or
Rob: Oh, I will.
Uh, his scenes with Boothby were great.
I love Ray Walston.
He's such a wonderful actor.
I used to love him on, uh, I've mentioned this before on Picket
Fences was his last big thing.
Uh, but yeah, tantalizing stuff.
I know you know this more than I do, but they mention the
incident that happened at the
Kevin: Yeah.
As far as I can tell, we never, we never learn what that was.
Rob: Right?
'cause we know about the, the bar fight where he got stabbed,
Kevin: Yeah, that was somewhere else.
Uh, yeah, that was somewhere else on a star base somewhere.
Rob: So that's all we know.
That tantalizing bit of going, that thing that happened.
You were very angry.
Kevin: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
It's, uh, it's good.
Nice to have a mystery still about uh, Jean-Luc Picard.
Uh, yeah, I enjoyed it too.
I enjoyed the confidence of not having to tell us that bit either,
letting it be Wesley's story.
Um, yeah.
Good stuff.
I, speaking of world building, I love the stuff about, you know, maneuvers
around Saturn and we, we got you, we got a picture of you just as you
were, uh, passed into sensor range of a, of a probe around one of the
moons, and yeah, it was, it was, yeah.
Nice stuff.
Rob: Using, yeah, using, creating that reality of what could be captured.
So it wasn't like it said, we got a photo at that particular moment, as opposed
to, oh, we've got perfectly high quality footage that runs for the entire time.
It's you working within the reality of this, a advanced society, which
I find really, really exciting.
Kevin: Yeah.
I like the procedural of the hearing.
I like, you know, Wesley standing up and narrating the footage
from his flight recorder.
Like all that stuff, I really, I eat that stuff up.
Rob: Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, so it was good to finally watch it, to see that whole and seeing that
balance of what we get in Starfleet Academy of the older statesmen and
how the kids deal with it as well.
that kid that, you know, how Nova Squadron debate and argue and, uh, and, and sort
of like close ranks around each other, and then how Picard and the rest of the
crew try and help solve this mystery.
Kevin: It's a great example of the things that Starfleet cadets can
do in a Star Trek story that you could never get away with writing
that story about Starfleet officers.
We decided to break the rules and got caught and now we're gonna lie about it.
And our, our dilemma is, should we keep lying about it or come clean?
Like that is not a story you can tell about Starfleet officers who are, who
are in, in the chain of command and, you know, will appear next week as a, uh,
fully a fully fledged member of the crew.
But it is, these are the kinds of mistakes that cadets can make and
I'm really looking forward to this new series because we get to hear
some of these kinds of stories.
Rob: Yeah, literally going, you know, if I was in your position, I would do it.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.
Rob: You're going, great.
Awesome.
That you could never get that.
Yeah.
Like you said, you could never get that with, you know, fully
fleshed Starfleet officers.
Kevin: Yeah.
We return to this same location for Starfleet Academy in Star Trek:
Voyager, season five, episode four, In The Flesh, which is another episode
we've talked about before, I think in our going undercover episode.
We talked about it because Chakotay is, is very much undercover as, uh, as
a, as a love interest in this episode.
Rob: Brings out his dogue quality, brings out his dogue.
Kevin: This is the one where Voyager happens upon a simulation
of Starfleet Academy being created by Species 8472, preparing
Rob: is there
Kevin: Federation.
And Boothby just happens to be the big commander.
He is this, he is the ranking officer in this simulation.
Rob: can get Ray Walston back, put him in charge.
Kevin: Exactly.
I, I feel like even though it's not the real Boothby, Boothby is
somewhat, he suffers from too much of a good thing, in this episode.
He's kind of stops being Boothby, which is kind of fine because
it's not the real Boothby.
But, uh, but yeah, there's a little too much, uh, uh, "sunny boy" about, uh, uh,
uh, in, in this episode for my liking.
Rob: Because he never does any of that in First Duty.
It's really beautifully written about how, you know, that beautiful
line of going, you know, you are at the age now that I was.
Kevin: Yeah, he is.
He is.
He is non sentimental, if anything, in First Duty where, yeah, I think they
write him a bit differently here, which you can, you can look past because
it's an alien pretending to be Boothby.
But yeah, that, that, um, that last moment in First Duty where he runs
off the list of names in Nova Squadron and he goes, Yeah, I know them.
I know them all.
And he walks off and Picard's like, oh
Rob: Ooh.
Kevin: That's, that's the Boothby I know and love.
Rob: But yeah, that we get little tantalizing hints about like
the social activities of what they do through the simulation.
Like, you know, what their nightlife is like at, uh, at Starfleet Academy.
At least mentioned in, In The Flesh.
Kevin: They expand on it a bit here.
They mention Starfleet Academy.
They also mention, uh, the Starfleet Command complex.
Like apparently the simulation encompasses the entire Starfleet Command complex,
including this like nightclub or bar where, where a few scenes are set.
They mention Starfleet Headquarters as well.
So there, there is a bit of ambiguity around these, these things and
like, what is their hierarchy.
But the sense I get is that Starfleet Headquarters includes Starfleet Command
and Starfleet Academy and that, that that Japanese garden area is, are
the grounds of Starfleet Academy.
Yes.
But Starfleet command is right next door.
Like you could walk there.
Rob: Yes.
The Academy and the Command are right next to each other.
Yeah.
Kevin: the TV series we have the, uh, the War College as well, established.
Rob: something we didn't get to talk about.
Yeah.
The, the, and what that meant.
'cause they had the War College during the years of the Burn.
Um, and this is the, this is the first year of the, the Academy opening up.
And it's working at the same time as, um, the War College, which
is run by a guy that looks like Arnold Rimmer from Red Dwarf.
Kevin: He does too.
I hadn't even picked that.
Rob: So this is way before, you know, this is Voyager time.
So this is way before the, uh, James T. Kirk Pavilion or the unknown, I
had looked up, there is no actual Turner within the canon of they, they
make such a point of talking about.
Kevin: Yeah, they said it so many times.
I was like, am I supposed to know who that is?
Rob: And
Kevin: We, we, we don't need to know every name, but when they say it that
often, uh, I think that there could have been a little more done to make
clear that this is, this is someone new.
Rob: They've literally got a wall with every single character who
has ever appeared in Star Trek on.
That's an
Kevin: divisive.
Some people are like, this is a point I have made before that if, if every
story that we have seen is referenced again and again, and every character
is referenced again and again, it actually kind of shrinks the size of
the world to just what we have seen.
If everyone knows each other's names, and have heard all of these stories as well,
there isn't a sense of a wider universe out there going on around them, which
is the thing that I find satisfying.
That wall having like 90% of the names are characters we have seen some,
some of them in just one episode, it, it, it does shrink the universe.
And I do feel that.
I also see the counter argument that the pe they, the true heroes, the people
worth telling stories about are the ones that they would make these historical
documents about, and we have seen
Rob: Those poor people.
Kevin: and that there is a wider universe out there, but most of what
goes on out there is more mundane.
And we are seeing all the good stuff in these episodes.
I don't know about that.
I think I am more on the side of, I would prefer, I would prefer
one in 10 recognizable names and the sense that there's the 90% out
there that we've never heard of yet.
Rob: Yeah.
Now I wanna get your opinion on this.
Go back to it, sorry.
Um, like you see in the background, they have flashes of
quotes from people on the walls.
And, but they're like doing quotes from episodes where people
were just having conversations.
So I'm there going, how
Kevin: everything recorded?
Yeah.
Rob: And you know, what we learned from the, uh, that bad episode from,
uh, a Strange New World season three, apparently everything is filmed.
Um, but
Kevin: Spock, uh, you know, Spock said something in a cave once,
and now it's projected in 3D in Michael Burnham's quarters.
Yeah, there's been a bit of that.
Rob: Yeah, that, that, that part of me takes, it, takes it outta me a little bit.
If it was done like in big speech section or something like that, I go, okay,
everyone heard it, it was recorded.
I'm there going, dude, this was done like in a cave.
was,
Kevin: a secret mission.
Yeah.
Rob: But, yeah, they're definitely taking tantalizing elements that
they've touched on in previous episodes, but now expanding it into a
full show is, is really, really fun.
And another one I was gonna bring, I watched it last night and
then I led into watching Beyond.
I actually watched the 2009 film and I hadn't watched that in over 10 years.
Kevin: Yeah.
There's a fair bit at Starfleet Academy there.
I haven't watched that recently.
Rob: Yeah, it's the, the, the issues I have with it are still there.
Um, and, uh, I think like, 'cause I always thought Beyond was better,
but rewatching them back to back, I think, I think I still prefer,
um, the first film in many ways.
Um, but yeah, there is that element you've seeing the Kobayashi Maru actually
recreated, um, is funny and so much of them on campus walking around in their
cadet outfits and going to class, even though Karl Urban looks like he's 50.
Even though he was like quite a young man at that time.
Kevin: Yes indeed.
Rob: But yeah, so I watched the, uh, the, the 2009 Kelvin movie, uh, to get
a little hint of, you know, that first attempt at doing a, you know, what had
been wanting to be done for 30, 30 years,
Kevin: Yeah.
Uh, I mean, speaking of the Kobayashi Maru, the one I was gonna bring up
was, uh, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, the opening of which
takes place on a simulation of the Enterprise Bridge and everyone dies in,
Yeah, indeed.
And, um, and then Kirk and Spock walk out onto a teeny tiny set, which
if you read the lore, like there is basically one shot of Starfleet Academy.
In the background, the signage actually says Starfleet Training Command.
So this is even before the establishment of Starfleet Academy as, as a term.
I think we have heard mentions of back at the academy and stuff, but yeah,
when they came to creating it for the first time in Star Trek II, they, they
labeled it Starfleet Training Command.
And it is, it is a tiny hallway in front of a door and then there is a wide shot
where Kirk and Spock are relatively small and there's a bunch of foreground detail.
And apparently to stretch their budget, that foreground is actually
a miniature, and the camera is shooting through a miniature at the
tiny piece of set that they had.
And it makes it look like a bigger space than it is.
Rob: I love that.
I love that trickery.
Love that old, old school trickery.
Um, but yeah, great seeing the Kobayashi Maru acted out.
That beautiful shot of Kirk entering the set for the first time.
All the back lighting and smoke.
Oh,
Kevin: Lights.
Rob: Yep.
Seeing Kirstie Alley, try her
Kevin: Yeah.
Saavik complaining that it wasn't a fair test of her command abilities.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
And "Physician, heal thyself." is my favorite line in that scene.
Rob: Yeah.
Excellent.
Excellent work.
"Aren't you dead?"
Kevin: Such good stuff.
It's, yeah.
Yeah.
The first 12 minutes of that movie are at Starfleet Command, and then, yeah,
if you watch that, it's hard not to watch the rest of the movie right away.
Rob: Well, yeah.
It's, it's, it's so, it's so moorish.
You just wanna more and more.
Come on.
It's incredible.
It's the perfect Star Trek film.
Kevin: There are a bunch of connections in that, like the, in that first 12
minutes, like McCoy gives, uh, Kirk the birthday present of the glasses.
We have Chancellor Ake on the bridge reading with actual glasses, uh,
that were established as, as rare.
You don't find many with the lenses still intact says McCoy in the 23rd century.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: So, so yeah, ake has done something special to
Rob: But weren't they a gift from Dr. McCoy?
And they will be again.
That's the beauty of it.
I'll give you $100.
Is that lot?
Mmm.
Kevin: Uh, yeah, and, and there's the Kobayashi Maru in 2009 where Kirk, uh,
spends the whole time eating an apple.
And then we have, uh, Caleb, uh, biting into a, a very
spicy apple in Ake's quarters.
So the connections just, just keep coming.
Rob: And then it's used as an element of trust.
'cause then she throws, is it a still fire fruit or is it an apple?
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: I can kind of get, like, Ake still has glasses 'cause she's like, you
know, you know, hundreds of years old.
Um, and so, and connecting with the past and stuff like that.
But there's been a lot of discourse about like, 'cause one of the
characters is, uh, in a wheelchair.
One of the other characters is in glasses, which is great representation all there.
But the whole thing of going, that's not Roddenberry's future,
I'm going, oh, good heavens.
Oh, just, just stop.
Just stop.
Kevin: Well, I think we have, uh, we have covered these, these episodes and
taken a look back on Starfleet Academy.
I am ready to go.
Let's, let's bring on more episodes.
Rob: Do we have 10 episodes this season?
Kevin: Yeah, we have 10 episodes.
Rob: Eight to go.
Kevin: One of which has been described as a love letter to Deep Space Nine, Rob.
Rob: I thought you were gonna say there's one that, because
you leaned in, uh, viewers, he leaned right into the view screen.
I thought he was gonna say, 'cause I think I've seen some of the trailers.
It's gonna get a bit sexy.
Kevin: Oh, I'm sure that'll happen.
You don't hire this many, this many young, attractive people and not throw
them into bed together now and then.
Rob: The actor playing Caleb is built like an, you know, excuse my
language, like a brick shithouse.
How, and apparently he had to lose weight.
Kevin: Wow.
Rob: He, he's like a bodybuilder apparently.
And like he is huge.
He is massive.
He, he craps bigger than me.
Kevin: There's a shot where he, uh, he's like standing in the, in the light and he
is got his shoulder forward to show you that one bump that no one else can get.
Rob: Nobody, nobody.
Just stop it.
Kevin: The that if, if he moved it would all come apart.
Yeah.
Rob: I, I started, I get, I, I broke out into a sweat just looking at that.
Kevin: I love watching him standing next to, uh, Holly Hunter.
And they are using it.
There are, there, like in Beta Test there was a shot going up some stairs
where they put the two tall men at the top of the stairs and they
put Holly Hunter halfway down the flight of stairs talking up at them.
So they are, they are emphasizing, if anything, her, her diminutive size, which
Rob: nature.
Um, I'll be very interested to see, uh, this love letter to Deep
Space Nine, what it focuses on.
'cause there are many elements of Deep Space Nine that make it unique.
Kevin: We just had a love letter to Deep Space Nine in Lower Decks.
So I'm curious what they feel they've got to give us here.
Rob: Let's just go around the pylons again.
Just fly around those
Kevin: Could still be there?
It couldn't possibly still be there.
Rob: Terok Nor could not be there, especially with the Burn.
It would've, yeah, it would've been around a thousand.
Oh, Maybe
Kevin: Did it have a warp reactor?
I don't think it did.
Maybe, you know, Maybe it did
Rob: We could, well, maybe it's been set up as some sort of like
a museum piece on Bajor and we have been to Bajor for so far.
Yeah.
Kevin: So Bajor was not behind the, the Betazed curtain.
Rob: No, no, it was not.
They were, they were serving ice cream to the children.
Kevin: The green child was hired for the, the, look that she could give of,
uh, shut up and give me my ice cream.
Rob: Yeah, yeah.
you you have one particular skill set you lean into that.
Kevin: Yeah.
So good.
Rob: But yes, Star Trek is back.
It is exciting.
It is, uh, fun.
It is good to watch.
And we are, uh, we are back into it.