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You're listening to The Bible Guys,
a podcast where a couple of friends talk

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about the Bible in fun in practical
ways. Well, hey, everybody,

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welcome to the Bible Guys. I'm
Chris and I'm Jeff. Yes, and

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we have new digs. We do
have new digs. This is a new

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studio for those who are watching.
If you're listening, this has nothing to

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do with anything. So if you're
watching, we have what like, we're

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back to a table, sort of
our beginnings, back to a table.

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Yeah, that was like the HG
Daily. Yeah, this is great.

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I love it. I love the
look of it. I love anything about

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it. Yes, love. If
you're listening to us, go on YouTube

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check us out. Yeah for sure. Well, hey today we are starting

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with I mean, talk about Mondays. You know how people say I hate

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Mondays? Well, talk about a
wamp wamp. We're trying to stump the

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pastor right off the game on Monday. On Monday. My brain isn't even

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fired up. Okay, let's see
what this one is. All right,

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this is from Meredith. S Hi'm
Meredith, and Mardith says Meredith. Just

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the name Meredith sounds like it's gonna
be a tough question. Ye, so

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that's a lot of credit giving to
Meredith's right there. All right, So

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Meredith is just like a smart name. It is. Throughout this Milestones of

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the Old Testament series, there are
multiple references to God designing the world perfectly

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and how pain and suffering exists because
of sin. This is how this is

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not how God designed it. So
my question is, wouldn't God have known

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the outcome of Satan tempting Eve?
Wouldn't he have seen this coming question mark?

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So therefore did he design it perfectly
since he included the serpent? Oh,

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it's actually it's actually worded very well, yes, very well written.

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Yes, because actually the concept of
this question is is pretty common. Yeah,

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well it's Christians only been arguing about
this for about five hundred years.

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Yes, so yeah, this is
a big it's fundamental, I think,

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to what you would consider Reformation Christian
Janity, Protestant Christianity. Even within the

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Catholic faith tradition, this has been
a struggle. So the predisposition to the

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question is that God knows everything and
the outcome of everything, which kind of

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means from from the perspective she's writing
from, that would mean that God has

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everything scripted and the script is just
playing right. You and I we were

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I was supposed to say that it
was scripted and that the script just playing

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right right, and then and then
I always like to have fun and say,

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did God know I'm going to do
this? Because I didn't even know

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I was going to do it a
second ago, but he did so.

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So the premise being that God knows
everything before it happens, is I think

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a true concept. I think that
God knows everything. The question is,

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is everything already pre planned? There
there's a difference between those two ideas because

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we want to make God linear that
A must lead to B, B mustly

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to C, C must lead to
D. And God knew that we were

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going to eventually get to D,
right, he knew it? As opposed

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to it kind of ignores the question, kind of ignores free will right,

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that free will is not as powerful
as God's foreknowledge. And I would say

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that the free will of humanity is
part of what it means that we were

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made in God's image, that we're
free, we're free, autonomous individuals make

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our own choices. So the fact
that God created a world that was supposed

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to be built on love and there
is no love without a choice. So

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the fact that God decided to make
the entire story of love story made sin

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possible, but it did not make
it actual. Eaves bad choice made it

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actual. Adam's bad choice, sinful
choice, made sin actual, and thus

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all of the bad things. So
I believe that God could have looked into

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eternity and seeing that humanity would sin
and that we also would not sin,

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right, and that he had plan
for both directions on that right, And

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then through all the decisions of your
life, the hundreds of millions, maybe

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billions of decisions that you've made in
your life, God knew that you would

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and that you would not. And
then God guides humanity within the framework of

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what we would and would not do, and he knows both sides of that

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that is possible we could and it's
possible that we could not. So I

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believe that God works and possibilities rather
than absolutes when it comes to fore knowledge.

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Yeah, and a lot of times, not always, but a lot

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of time, Yeah, a lot
of times when he supernaturally intercedes and makes

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a thing happen. Yeah, but
that's supernatural. So in the natural,

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which is how the universe really works
nine percent of the time in the natural.

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Then decisions have consequences, and so
we always say this for every stump

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past your question. But you know, we're going to take our best guesses,

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right, We're going to take our
best uh, you know, uh,

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theology, our theories are are and
what we're doing is we're piecing together

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every other thing we know about God. Yeah, the preponderance of evidence.

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That's exactly what you do in court. Yes, right, yes, so

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you're piecing together. But unless this
question we're directly asked and answered by God

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himself about whether or not he knew
Eve was going to, you know,

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sin and Adam was going to sin. Unless it was answered directly, the

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ultimate answer is we don't know,
however, which is a huge difference between

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you and me. Yeah, huge
difference. You are very content to live

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in the mystery. Yeah, and
I need I need a plausible answer,

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right right, right, that's a
huge I was I was taught in seminary

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that that's that's the that's the main
component of the postmodern church. The postmodern

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church is one who is realizing that
no matter how hard you try, that

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there is an element of we still
don't know. Yeah, I would So

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I reject postmodernism on almost every level. H in case you're wondering, because

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I think the postmodernism leads out of
the Enlightenment and back into the dark ages,

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the idea that we have this very
fluid concept of right and wrong,

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this very fluid concept of morality,
as opposed to the superior ideas of the

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Enlightenment. So I would I would
push back against that even being viable in

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the church. That's so funny.
I acknowledge that people exist with that mindset.

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I just reject the mindset itself.
Yeah, and I always think to

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myself, if God wanted us to
have a concrete, ironclad, one hundred

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point zero percent certainty of the answer
to this question, he would have written

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like thirty one thousand verses. Oh
no, he would have written thirty one

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thousand, one hundred explained it right. So yeah, he doesn't answer it

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directly, so we are left to
piece together everything else that we know.

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Now. No, I did not
say that we couldn't be ninety nine percent

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sure, right, I did not
say that. So my answer you would

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view as being plausible. I would
view it to be you could you could

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certainly likely? Yeah, very likely. Yeah, So you know again,

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I mean, I can't presume to
put a percentage on how right we are

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about God. But were the Bible
guys, so she asked the Bible questions

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question, but you that were ninety
five percent right about who God is?

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It will take on it when in
the nature of how he works. But

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truly, I really do believe that
I believe that there are which is why

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I sort of to be honest with
you, I sort of I think all

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debate is important, always, right. It's just that we have to understand,

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you know, the evidence that we're
given. It's it's that whole idea

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of even predestination and all that kind
of stuff, right, you know,

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the just that whole conversation. You
look at how many verses there are about

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that, right? Not too many, right, just a handful. And

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even you know, anyway, it
doesn't matter. There's a whole other topic

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altogether. And I would just say, I would just say, jeez,

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if God really wanted us to know
everything there is to know, then he

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would have given us more verses.
Right, So the idea that you know,

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so in her questions, she's asking, wouldn't God have known the outcome

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of Satan tempting Eve. Yes,
So if the outcome is already known,

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then it's not actually temptation. You're
just being led down a path. So,

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whether that's with Adam and Eve's temptation
or jesus temptation, either it's an

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actual temptation or it's not. Right. So then if temptation is real,

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there's an actual, real choice that
is not predetermined. That that's the nature

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of the word temptation, and I
think it's also the nature of the original

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Hebrew and Greek words as well.
But there's an actual temptation. Yeah,

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but you could argue that those are
two different planes. You're talking about the

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actual versus the real According to the
perspective of Jesus with the human yes and

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God yes yes, yeah, he
became humans, so he transcended the two

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the two planes, right, because
if that were true, then what you're

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saying is it would transfer into Jesus
walking on the air. Right. The

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Book of Hebrew says that Jesus was
tempted in every way as we are.

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Yeah, that's a really good point. That's a legitimate temptation, right,

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because if it were not, if
it were known, right, then then

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he'd be like, oh, it's
really not temptation. I know I'm strong

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enough, right, So I think
that the words that we translate into the

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word temptation means that it's up in
the air. There's an actual, one

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hundred percent autonomous choice that has concepts. H Yeah, I like that.

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I like that idea, the idea
that Jesus is the one who knows both

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sides of the equation, and the
word temptation is something that he is.

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It says to us that he legitimately
was dumpted in every way, in every

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way like you and me, that's
great and not that's great. And so

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I really do believe that free will. What we do is we tend to

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minimize free will and maximize God's foreknowledge. And what I would say is it's

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possible to live in the tension of
both that God has complete and told foreknowledge

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and humanity has complete and total free
will. And then we just have to

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settle in on this idea that you
know, God says, my ways aren't

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your ways, My thoughts aren't your
thoughts. There is mystery and absolutely sure.

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But God also says, the same
God who says that says, come,

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let's reason together, says the Lord, and so I think that it's

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it's great for Meredith to have a
question like this or she's wrestling with I'm

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trying to trying to wrap my head
around. If God knew it was going

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to happen, then why did he
do it in the first place, as

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opposed to the fact that it was
possible didn't make it actual. That's great,

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right, it was possible for Adam. I need to skip it,

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so we need to move on because
that was a that was a time.

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Yeah, today is a summary of
something we've already talked about. So yeah,

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I thought we don't need more time
on today's talk. Well, no,

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you know what, Meredith's question is
one of those I wrestle with it

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all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's there's

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two sides of this theologically. There's
the Armenian side, which is more free

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will. There's the Calvinists side,
which is more sovereignty of God. And

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you and I both tend to kind
of land right in the middle. Means

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it makes both Armenian and Calvinist friends
kind of frustrated with us, right,

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you're half right, right now,
all of our friends are type and angry

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texts and emails to us, you
guys are screwing it up. Well,

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hey, we are in Deuteronomy.
So the first five books of the Bible

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were written by Moses. As best
as we know, Deuteronomy is the last

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of those five. It's called the
Pentateuch, and it makes up all of

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the law. And so in Genesis
it establishes the fact that God created everything,

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and that he set this story of
redemption in motion through Abraham's family,

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ultimately the Messiah coming from there.
Then Exodus unpacks the story of Israel escaping,

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and then the law of God Leviticus
and Numbers re established. Leviticus establishes

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the religious law for Israel. How
all the sacrifices are supposed to go,

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and the tabernacle was supposed to be
built, and the priests are supposed to

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function all those things. Numbers focuses
a little bit more on the social law,

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although it still reaffirms the religious law. And Deuteronomy is like a summary

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of Exodus. Leviticus Numbers right,
it really is. And so actually Deuteronomy

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comes back and resummarizes the ten Commandments, restates them. Yes, and this

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is if you look at Deuteronomy.
Much of Deuteronomy is like the last big

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speech from Moses. He's one hundred
and twenty years old and he's standing up

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there going, okay, let me
remind you again because it's been wandering around

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for forty years, and remind you
again what God said. And that's that's

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where we're at. So in Deuteronomy
chapter five, we're going to read verses

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one through twenty two. He said, pentituck, Pentituc. It's also called

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the Torah, right, yes,
so it's Torah and penituck. That's correct.

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Okay, So the Penta is five
five books. Oh yeah, yeah,

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right, and Torah would be the
law that the that the Jews would

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view. So yep, there's not
no penta meant five. Look at you

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with your knowledge. So Moses called
all the people of Israel together and said,

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listen carefully, Israel. Hear the
decrees and regulations I'm giving you today,

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so you may learned them and obey
them. The Lord, our God,

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made a covenant with us at Mount
Sinai. The Lord did not make

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this covenant with our ancestors, but
with all of us who are alive today.

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At the mountain, the Lord spoke
to you face to face from the

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heart of the fire I stood as
an intermediary between you and the Lord,

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for you were afraid of the fire
and did not want to approach the mountain.

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He spoke to me, and I
passed his words on to you.

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This is what he said. I
am the Lord your God, who rescued

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you from the land of Egypt,
the place of your slavery. You must

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not have any other god but me. You must not make for yourself any

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idol of any kind, or any
image of anything in the heavens, or

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on the earth or in the sea. You must not bow down to them

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or worship them. For I,
the Lord your God, am a jealous

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god who will not tolerate your affection
for any other gods. I lay the

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sins of the parents upon their children, the entire families, affected, even

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children in the third and fourth generations
of those who reject me. But I

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lavish unfailing love for a thousand generations
on those who love me and obey my

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commandments. You must not misuse the
name of the Lord your God. The

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Lord will not let you go unpunished
if you misuse his name. Observe the

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Sabbath day by keeping it holy,
as the Lord your God has commanded you.

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You have six days each week for
your ordinary work, but the seventh

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day is the Sabbath day of rest, dedicated to the Lord your God.

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On that day, no one in
your household may do any work. This

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includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your

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oxen and donkeys and other livestock,
and any foreigners living among you. All

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your male and female servants must rest
as you do. Remember that you were

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once slaves in Egypt, with the
Lord your God brought you out with his

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strong hand and powerful arm. That
is why the Lord your God commanded you

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to rest on the Sabbath day.
Honor your father and mother as the Lord

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your God commanded you, then you
will live a long, full life in

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the land the Lord your God is
giving you. He must not murder,

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You must not commit adultery. You
must not steal. You must not testify

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falsely against your neighbor. You must
not covet your neighbor's wife. You must

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not covet your neighbor's house or land, male or female, servant, ox

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or donkey, or anything else that
belongs to your neighbor. The Lord spoke

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these words to all of you assembled
here at the foot of the mountain.

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He spoke the loud voice from the
heart of the fire, surrounded by out

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and darkness, deep darkness. This
was all he said at that time,

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And he wrote his words on two
stone tablets and gave them to me.

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There you go, Well, I
say, there you go almost every time

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when I'm done reading, Yeah,
there you go, there you go,

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And I don't say it because you
do the reading and I'm and I'm very

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there you go, and I'm very
content with you doing the reading. When

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we started the Bible, guys,
I said, Jeff, I said,

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I think you have a better reading
voice than I do. Plus I I

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think that you tackle, you tackle
the hard words. So I, uh,

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that was just read the hard words. Yeah. Well, to be

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honest with you, I you know, those weird like city names and things,

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and honestly, they don't matter,
right in terms of they matter in

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terms of knowledge and you know history
and all that, But in terms of

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like pronouncing them correctly, that doesn't
matter, right. So sometimes in church

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even I'll say and then the people
of Israel were encamped between that city and

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this city, and on the screen
it says both you know, I'm like,

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you know that weird town and that
weird town, you know, and

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I just move on and people people
laugh, but I'm just like why even

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try it? Sometimes? Right?
But hey, So, so I went

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to Israel on two thousand and nine, and I know that you also went

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last year, right, yeah?
Year? Yeah, yeah, lest Man.

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And now did you get a chance
to visit the Dead Sea Scroll Museum

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museum? Yeah? Yeah? And
were you there? You were there where

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they discovered them. You heard the
story about the caves and everything else.

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It's super cool. And they found
over six hundred manuscripts in the caves overlooking

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the Dead Sea. And these manuscripts
were dated between two hundred BC and one

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hundred BC or one hundred AD.
And it's the text of the Old Testament,

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one thousand earlier that the manuscripts were
available. And this was in nineteen

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forty seven, it says, right, in nineteen forty seven. Yes,

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the oldest manuscripts we have we had
up to that point. Yes, we're

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one thousand years newer than what they
found in Kumra. Yeah, and that

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crazy, right. So the oldest
ones we had up to that point were

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for many of these things were from
one thousand and eighty well, and then

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all of a sudden, this discovery
is found in nineteen forty seven and Kumran,

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and now of a sudden, there
are a thousand years older than the

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oldest ones we had up to that
point. It's really incredible. Yeah.

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And then there was and there was
an actual village like that they believed to

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be some sort of a monastery or
something where where people were like either yeah,

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yeah, it was a religious cult. It it was like a Jewish

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cult that lived out there. They
were almost like a monk type of thay,

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yeah, that lived in that area, and they just copied the Bible

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and they were looking for the end
of the world, right, Yeah.

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And there was a little boy who
had apparently lost a sheep or a ram

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or a goat or something and he
couldn't find it. And of course back

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then, you know still today,
there's so many caves over there, and

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so he grabbed a rock and he
threw the rock trying to throw it in

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because you didn't want to climb the
mountain and to check each cave. So

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he's throwing rocks in the caves to
hear of animal's reaction. So he throws

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a rock into a cave, and
here's breaking a pottery and then thinks,

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oh, what did I do?
Or whatever he's thinking, and he climbs

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the mountain and sees and discovers all
you know of these scrolls that were sealed

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with like a wax in pottery so
that they were able to survive. And

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there's two hundred of them, which
is pretty six six hundred of this,

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yeah, which is crazy. And
then what's incredible. What was so special

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about that discovery was the accuracy.
Right, So there's almost a thousand year

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gap between the oldest ones we had
up to that point and these brand new

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ones that we found that were a
thousand years older, and then they're almost

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exactly the same. The Book of
Isaiah, for instance, the Scroll of

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Isaiah is one of the most complete
scrolls out of all of that is almost

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exactly word for word. When we're
talking variances, you're not talking any theological

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or historical changes. You're talking maybe
a spelling or like a comma kind of

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a kind of a thing, right, pluctuation. It's really phenomenal how accurate,

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how accurate these are, and you're
talking there's six So the reason why

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you told that whole story is this
exact passage is one of the passages that

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was found. Right, that's exactly
what we read Dudonomy chapter five, verse

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one through Duteronomy sixth verse one.
That's right, that was found and it's

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exactly the same, Right, it's
exactly the same as what we already knew

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it, which again, you know, I do love the fact that sometimes

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if you read Matthew, Mark,
Luke, and John uh and sometimes if

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you're reading them chronologically, you'll say, well, hey, didn't I just

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read this? You know? And
uh and so you know, the Bible

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uh, you know, goes out
of its way to sometimes repeat events.

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And it seems to me like the
series that we just got out of supported

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the fact that the bigger the event
was, and the more important that it

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was, it seemed like it was
in all four gospels, right, Sometimes

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it's in two, sometimes it's in
one. And uh and and and here

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we have Deuteronomy. Moses is speech, and it's word for word covering what

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we would assume would be some of
the most important things that God ever spoke,

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right, which in this case obviously
is the ten Commandments. Yeah,

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the top ten, the top ten
top ten list right here. Yes,

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pretty much if you look at these
again, I think it's important. You

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know, God, God, There's
so many things God could teach us,

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but there are some fundamental things God
keeps teaching us over and over and over

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and over again. So it would
have been easy for the Jews to go

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or the Israelites to go, oh, we already know this part. But

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instead Moses said, hey, listen, it's been a while. Let's remind

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ourselves again to this. And there
are some fundamental things. The fact that

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Jesus is a virgin born side of
God, that he lived a sinless life,

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that he taught us the best way
to live, the fact that he

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paid the price for our sin with
his blood, and he took the punishment

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for our sin and his body,
and he rose again, and he gave

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us a mission. He established his
church, he has sent it back to

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heaven. Some day, he's going
to come and judge the world again.

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We're all going to stand and give
account before God, right, and that

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salvation is by through faith. Those
things are important. We have to remind

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ourselves often these How to live our
life is incredibly important. And you know

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you've mentioned this before. There's six
hundred and what thirteen six hundred and thirteen

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laws in the Bible, but they
can all be summed up in these right,

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right, And Jesus gets even simpler. So they're six hundred and thirteen.

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God gives the top ten. Hey, if you keep these, you're

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probably keeping most of them. Jesus
gets down to actually there's just two,

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which he quotes from Deuteronomy, which
is great right in the book we're reading

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in right now, and he goes, hey, listen, you want a

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real summary. Love God with everything
that you are. You know things like,

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don't have any other God before me, don't have any idols, don't

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take my name in vain, have
a Sabbath day and set it aside for

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me. Right, So, love
God with all of who you are.

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And then the other head, Jesus
says, the other half is the flip

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side of that coin. You can't
separate it is love your neighbors yourself.

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So that's the don't kill, don't
commit adultery, don't steal, don't cove

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it, don't covet what your neighbor
has, right, don't lie. And

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so even Jesus comes back and read
affirms you know these things, and that's

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interesting. He reaffirms all of the
ten commandments in teachings as well. Well.

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He actually said, all the law
and all the profits hang on these

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two summaries and these two new commands, you know, And it's, uh,

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you just said something that was actually
incredibly profound. Congratulations. Every once

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in a while you do that.
Yeah, but you said there are things

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that there are things that you said, say it again, there are things

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that he teaches you. Then there's
things that he keeps teaching you. What

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did you say? Yeah, I
said, yeah, yeah, Well that

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is so that is really a brilliant
concept because sometimes we as Christians, the

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more mature that we get, the
longer that we've been in church world,

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we think that spiritual growth is acquiring
new knowledge now, but actually spiritual growth

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is applying the knowledge that we have. That's right. Right, So if

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you if you know one hundred things, spiritual growth is not learning two hundred

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things, right, It is to
master the one hundred things. That's right.

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And so if you if so,
if you you can learn a thousand

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things and still not do eight hundred
of them, and you're just as shallow

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as right. I'm not saying you
personally, I'm saying that's how it's defined.

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Right. So our lives are defined
by application and obedience. They're defined

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by our relationship with our heavenly Father
and our maturity and our understanding because the

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more that we love God. Wait, let me, I just thought of

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something. When I was just a
teenager, I remember my youth pastor said,

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Hey, I'm going to teach you, as high school students, three

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things, And I didn't realize how
profound those three things were. He said,

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I'm going to teach you to know
God, to love God, and

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to serve God. And he said, because you can't really serve him unless

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you know him, and you can't
unless you love him, and you can't

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really love him as much as you
should unless you know who he is.

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And so to know God is to
love God is to serve God, and

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those things in that order. I
realized when I'm older, I'm like,

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Wow, that really truly is the
whole entire Christian life in those three phrases.

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Yeah, so we should celebrate when
God reminds us of a thing that's

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right. And getting frustered, I
already heard this part. The service wasn't

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for me. Gosh, that is
such a good word. I'm gonna have

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to find another. I'm gonna have
to find another nation to hang out with,

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another leader to follow, because I've
already heard this story, right,

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yeah, I've heard this yeah yeah, yeah, as if, as if

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you know, that's the that's the
goal. The goal is, Hey,

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do you need an encouraging reminder from
it? Right? And and we and

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we say it every single week in
so many different ways. So yeah,

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that's a that's a great word from
today. Good well, hey, that's

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a good place to end and hopefully
we will see you next time on the

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Bible gosh,