I'm Travis Bader, and this is the
Silvercore podcast.
Join me as I discuss matters related to
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And once again, joined by the founder of six
sites, CEO expert, his special forces, commando,
and corporate spy.
My friend Sonny Smith sunny.
Thank you very much for joining me again on the
Silvercore podcast.
Thanks for having me back.
I'm excited.
Man.
We've been talking about so many cool things
since our last podcast said, we decided, you
know, there's going to be some points in here
that the general public would probably like
to hear about as well.
And one of them we're talking about was, well,
I guess specifically, uh, special forces selection.
Cause I know that's something that
is intriguing for a lot of people.
I remember as a teenager, reading the Andy McNabb
book, immediate action and absolutely loving
the, uh, the detailing process of what brought
them through that.
But from your perspective, What in
your background sort of drove you to want to
submit yourself to such arduous, such an arduous
selection process?
Well, at the beginning, I didn't aim for special
forces or I had that in the back of my head,
but I didn't tell anyone about that, which is
a good thing to do.
If you are thinking of it, you don't
talk about it.
Like, especially if you walk into a recruiter's
office, don't say I want to go special forces.
Cause they'll laugh in your face.
You need to learn to walk before let's crawl before
you can run and all that.
Uh, but, uh, It was just striving to be the best.
If I'm going to do something, I might
as well try and go as far as I can go.
And that's a stepping stone process as well.
Um, so that's why I joined the Royal
Marine commandos.
First of all, because in the UK they're considered
the best entry level, um, infantry that you can be.
Um, and the powers are close.
Second.
See, I've heard the peers are pretty good
rope to go as well.
Yeah.
Now I have to give the parents respect
cause I was actually focused on them as a
youngster on nets, a Royal Marine command.
Close friend of mine and he steered me
in that direction.
And I'm very happy about the decision on made.
Um, but yeah, they're both good units.
Um, but to go for special forces, you start off
in the infantry and then what builds your
basic skill levels up?
Because being in special forces is a
basics of really what matters and that's the
difference is knowing the basics very well.
And then you can build on top of that, uh, in
terms of pushing yourself to the limits, uh, you
have to be smart about it, but there's no easy
way to get around the pain it's coming, you
know, and you have to get into the pain early on.
You can't just turn up and get into the pain.
You have to get into the pain every
day, every morning, uh, train in heart.
What do you mean getting into the pain every day?
Early morning?
Is that just like a mental switch that
you're like, okay, we're on, we're doing this.
Yeah.
Once I made the decision that I was going to
go for selection, um, then I just.
Decided that I was going to do the training that
I needed to do to pass, which in the British
special forces is a, we call it Yom pin in
the Royal Marines, but it's a rock marching and
carrying a lot of weight over long distances over
mountainous terrain.
So I, with that goal in mind at first, I
just started training in that regard.
And that's a very painful thing to do
because it's long time as a long, a duration
of running with heavy weights that it just,
your backs are in your shoulders hurt and with
the weight of the pack.
And then you, obviously, your legs are burning.
Your lungs are burning.
Um, so it's not comfortable experiences,
obviously not supposed to be comfortable.
It is a bit different than.
Um, some of the American special forces,
selections, like buds for the seals, um,
they do a lot of, uh, like PT in a beach
setting and you have instructors on your back,
like shouting at you.
And if you do something wrong, then they're
right on top of you for our selection.
You're pretty much on your own.
You don't get any guidance.
And that's part of it.
It's a psychological, to be honest.
And that that's the purpose.
That's a very interesting aspect to it.
Cause like, I mean reading through and I
know his, name's not actually Andy McNabb,
but reading through Andy McDowell's book that
he had, when I think he was one of the early
ones to really kind of delve into the whole
selection process, he talks about his earlier
days in his upbringing and he's a little
bit of a delinquent.
Uh, he find that to be sort of, Hey, A common
trend in, uh, perhaps people who want to push
themselves to these special forces level.
But my personal experience, I'd say yes.
Um, although there's a, there's always different
backgrounds, but I think you have to be a
bit of a, an adventure.
And, uh, I call myself a bit of a wild man,
cause I am, you know, I just a bit spontaneous.
And uh, I like to just do stuff, even if I
make mistakes, but, and I did make mistakes
when I was younger.
Um, and I learned from them, but you
do have to be that sort of person that's
going to step forward.
Uh, when everyone else is kind of question in
looking around what's everyone else doing?
So you have to be a go
getter.
Is that sort of like a counter culture
mentality or maybe like oppositional
defiance, sort of a, uh, uh, a mentality
that people have where they're like, you're not
telling me what to do.
I can figure this out and I can push
through and I've got my own way of doing it.
Is that sort of a,
yeah, it could be, it could be, you have to
be very independent and you don't have
help from anyone.
So in the Marines, it's very much a team, uh,
select, um, like training aspect that you all
looking after each other.
And when you go for special forces, you're
on your own, although there's team elements,
but you're looked at as an individual candidate,
um, and say, if you're doing a rock March,
you don't pull back to help someone else.
Um, because you'll, you'll get failed for
doing so like that person's on your own.
Yeah.
You leave them, but in the Marines
you would all come together and help that
individual team member.
Um, so there's a bit of a difference
there.
So, I guess it's gotta be difficult when you
get, you're trying to build a cohesive
team of special forces individuals and you're
doing so by specifically selecting people who
are individually minded and very strong-willed.
Yeah.
Is how does that work when once you're sort
of in the, I mean, I'm kind of jumping a
few spaces, pass all selection process, but
how does that work in the team environment having
so many individuals?
Is there a lot of friction that can kind of
happen or is the shared experience enough to,
there's a difference between lamps still
team players and being an individual,
meaning that you can operate on your own.
You can do everything independently.
The, the leader aspect.
Um, see, I'm not a natural leader, but
I still did well.
Um, and I can step up to that plate when I
want to, and I need to, but I don't lead.
Um, a lot of the time I'm quite happy to
be a team member.
So yeah, you do have the people that push out the
front, but also those people that are always
stepping up and trying to control things, they're
not going to do very well in selection because you
need to be a great man.
And that is a Jordan to you.
Anyone that gives you advice before you go
on selection, it's get your head down.
Be proficient in your skills and drills
and be a gray man.
You don't want to stand out for the wrong
reasons and make it join attention to yourself.
You can draw attention to yourself by being
good at your job.
Not for.
Off of reasons
if you're, let's say, uh, completing a tab
or a route March or something, uh, well
ahead of everybody else, would that be
separating yourself from the green mat?
Like, would you intentionally try and
keep yourself back a bit?
If there's some areas that, you know, you
could do quite well in?
Well, I wouldn't intentionally pull myself
back, but I do know on my selection, there was
a guy who was way ahead of everyone and he was
really going for it.
And, uh, there was talk about.
Just being a bit too cocky in that role.
And he didn't make it at the end.
I don't know if that weighed on him, but
also he was, it's a long process and the
Hills phase is just one phase of selection and
he, I don't know where he dropped off, but
he burned himself very heavily in the earliest
stage of selection.
And it's a long process.
If you get any injuries during that phase,
you're carrying them onto even harder
arduous, uh, activities later down the line.
And it's not an intelligent thing to
do because there's a pass and a fail at
the end of the day.
Um, so
not like you a hundred percent pass, you've
just got passed.
It's like going to see a doctor, I guess you don't
know if they came top of their class or they
just going to eat through this still a doctor.
Yeah, exactly.
That's it.
Uh, so what, um, what were the steps that were
required once your Royal.
I in order to make that next transition
into apply for special forces, what did, what
would you have to do?
Uh, you do have to have a certain amount
of years service.
I believe it was, uh, two years of,
of, of Royal Marine service to get that
experience as a soldier.
And you wouldn't want to go straight into
it anyway, because you do need to be, uh,
a high level soldier in all areas, um, and
have the basics down.
And for me, I actually was in a command role
before I decided to go.
So in the British military, in the Marines,
even in the army, they've slightly different
ranking systems.
We have Marine Lance corporal
and then corporal.
And I was at the rank of corporal when I
went for a selection.
And that helped me because I improved as
a soldier by taking that command of men
at that time, before that I didn't have.
Uh, as good understanding of certain things
like section, section attacks and stuff
like that, and how the mechanics worked and
going into the special forces, it would, it
was a big part of okay.
The knowledge base that I needed.
So yeah, I did it at the right time, actually.
And
I'm sure that build a lot of confidence as
well, having the extra years in and the, uh,
the experience there.
Yeah.
Yeah,
it does.
Yeah.
Not like, I think I mentioned on the last
podcast, when I did that corporal's course, um,
you have to go away to do, uh, there was two
special forces guys on that course with me and
I was working with them closely for a number of
weeks and they became first and second on that
course, and I was number free and they pulled me
aside at the end of the course and said, oh,
when you come in down to our unit and having
a go, and it was always in my head at that time.
But from that little discussion,
that was okay.
They said someone came me that they thought
I was good enough.
And before I'd actually met them, I hadn't
met anyone in the British special forces
as a, in a frame.
Capacity or worked alongside them.
And it was good to have that exposure
because I realized that they are they're
exceptionally good, but they're not gods.
And that's the image I had was that these
are the people that God's like, they may
never make a mistake.
They're just perfect in every aspect.
And I had that image of Royal Marines
before I joined.
And then when you get to that, you work hard
to get to that standard.
Um, you could still think you're a God, but
you know, it's doable.
You can do it.
And then the same thing happened with the,
when you did selection and went down there,
uh, you just built gradually and then you
get there eventually.
And then when you're there, you're like,
wow, it was horrendous, but it's achievable in
if you, if you do it,
it's amazing how many people have that
perception of it's just these people
are superhuman.
They're so different from normal people.
I like how you put that because I find
it, I find it like this in so many facets
of day-to-day life.
It's not that they're so awesome in one particular
area, it's that they've gotten very good at
perfecting the basics and very good at perfecting
the small things that are required in order
to be able to make the overall come together
in, in such a way.
Um, you know, we, in our training courses
that we do, and we've got different levels of,
uh, firearms training courses and our level
one, two, and three, and we always get people
saying, oh, I want to do a level four course.
I want them to do a level five course.
I want to start here because I've, I'm
pretty, pretty good.
And what most of these people actually
don't realize is that.
The very high end high level courses
require a very, very strong proficiency in
the absolute basics.
Just like the absolute, basic things that
you need in order to be proficient.
And you drill those down to such a level.
Now you're at that God-like level.
Is that similar to what you oh, that's
definitely, that's an accurate
description of it.
Uh, is it to it's heat and to be honest, yeah.
Yeah.
You really do have to focus on the basic skills
because you are a soldier at the end of the day.
And, and when you're on the ground, you actually
do in the same role, the same techniques and
things that you would use as an infantry soldier
in the Royal Marines.
Uh, and then you may have got there by
parachuting or some other glamorous place,
you know what I mean?
Um, but yeah, so you have to build off the basics
is a, is a good message.
So that takes you.
Now you've got the nod.
You got people saying, come on, give it a shot.
So you decide to put your name in and see
what would happen.
There's a lot of people that do that.
I should imagine a lot of people probably want
to put their name and do they all get looked at
if you fit the criteria and your commanding
officer of your unit, um, approves, which usually
they do, um, because it's actually quite a good way
to feed into the special forces it's looked at.
Everyone should have a go.
I believe if you want to be, if you've already
joined the Royal Marines, then you've already
taken that step to join a prestigious high
level organization.
Um, and you want to be a fighting soldier.
You don't join the Royal Marines because
you want to drive trucks or anything
else in my opinion.
Um, so once you've taken that step, I think you
should work towards.
If, if that's what you want to do with
your life, because once you get to that
special forces level, the whole, your
everyday life is just completely different.
There's a different outlook on you.
You are seen as the top of the table, basically.
Um, and you don't have to do a lot of the stuff
that you have to do in the military anymore.
For instance, cut your hair, salute offices by
so or anything like that.
It's just relaxed because you've already proven
that you are proficient and good enough.
And now all that stuff doesn't really matter.
It's irrelevant now you've got bigger
things to worry about, you know what I mean?
Very cool.
Yeah.
That would be, um, that would be something to
shoot for, for sure.
I would think everybody would want to put
that a little bit extra effort into at
least try for that.
Um, yeah, but when we say little bit extra
effort, So you get the nod you're in there.
You can call down C says at a boy, good to go.
So then you apply through the military
system and then you have a, this, they call
them briefing courses, which is the first
test, um, that you do.
So the SAS has a traditionally and
easier briefing course, and then a harder
pre-selection that you have a pre selection.
You don't just turn up on day one in Andy McNabb's
day, you just turned up and you went onto
the Hills in the Brecon beacons and started.
And now they have a buildup of, uh,
different things.
And down at the SBS, they have a briefing
course, which is a, is a one week course.
And it's traditionally harder than the
eight week buildup before selection.
So I knew that I was going for an extremely
hard one week.
So the training started very early on.
Um, so.
Yom pin as we call it in the Marines with
tabbing and training my legs and my back and
stuff just for, to carry heavy loads across.
Mountainous terrain.
So when you say heavy loads, what are we
talking?
Uh, well, it does vary a lot for
different marches.
Um, there was one March on that, uh, briefing
course, I believe it was around 75 to 80
pounds, but that isn't the actual weight.
That's the weight that you weigh the.
Before the day, and then you have to carry
water and yet you have to carry a certain
amount of water of sea for safety reasons.
And then you have to carry your food as well.
Cause the marches do go on sometimes eight
hours and the biggest one is mine was, uh,
18 and a half hours.
That was actually on selection.
That was one of the marches called long
drag, which is the famous last one you do?
So the fan dance, uh, no, that's a
different one actually.
And th that's quite early on at the first week,
but that is a, that's a different one because
the speed is different.
And, um, it's very famous as well because people
have died on that one.
Um, candidates have died in the past because
of the, the mountain is, uh, is quite a
unforgiving place and the weather can come in.
Uh, and in the summer, um, we lost a few guys a
few years back from heat exhaustion, three guys
on one selection course on the same day, which
yeah, I think it was free two or free, um, which
was quite horrendous.
I wasn't in at that time, but everyone in
the British military heard about that.
Um,
so 80 pounds, then he got water and then you
got food and that's your probably that's
another 10 pounds anyways, on your back.
Yeah.
So that was, that was one March, but the
normal weight is 55 pounds for the bag.
And then you've got a rifle and other stuff.
So on a normal March, you're going maybe.
65 to 70 pounds of weight.
Um, and that's, yeah, that's still,
it's a, it's a heavy load, you know, and
through that March there you've, you don't know
when it's going to end.
You said you've got like on the, the long
drag is 18 hours.
Do you have a deadline on that or are they
continually moving the finish line on you?
Uh,
on that one?
You kind of know that one because it's, uh, it's
so famous that people talk about it, but the
others in the mid, in the, in the middle of
the course is, is when you literally, you,
they drive you in the morning to, uh, the start
point and they don't tell you where that is.
So you have to follow on your map in the, in
the area and figure out where you're starting at.
And then they just give you the, the coordinates
for the next great, like the good reference to
the next checkpoint.
And then you get there and then you get another
one and you just keep going like that until
finally you see the trucks and stuff at
one checkpoint, and you don't know when
that's going to be.
So yeah, it varies some days you could be going
for four, five hours.
Some days it could be up to eight hours, but.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's, it's not, uh, it's, it's quite
psychologically, um, test him because
of that as well.
Um, and people do fail because they think
they're way behind and then the next checkpoint
is only there and they've talked themselves
out of it, basically.
Yeah.
I remember as a, uh, as a kid, just having to push
a car and, uh, and just thinking about that whole
psychological thing, there is a couple of us
were pushing the car down the road and I didn't
know where the car was supposed to be ending up.
And one person jokingly said, oh, it's going
to be up around the block and down the
next side, when we're really about one house
away, where did it go?
And we're running with this thing and
pushing it for about a block anyways.
And so I decided, okay, I'm going to take a break
because if we've got that much further to go.
And realize that person started steering
in their driveway.
And I'm like, now I look like the guy it's
just couldn't, couldn't make it to the end here.
And I always held that in the back of my head
as a, um, uh, just a little bit of a lesson
about the, uh, the power of the, uh, of
your mind to be able to continue pushing through.
Cause I felt knackered there, but hell if,
if it was only one more house, I'd go,
I could've continued.
I could have done it.
And I have to imagine just on a much bigger
scale, not pushing a car, a block, but on
a much bigger scale, um, that mental process
of, um, I can do it.
That must, that must take a lot of, um, I guess
straight up willpower, just, just push as
opposed to anything else I would think.
I dunno.
What w what do you do?
What did you find yourself doing to
be able to push.
When you didn't know where that deadline was?
Uh,
first of all, I, um, if I had failed selection, I
had, uh, I would have had a hard time in my life.
So I cut ties.
I actually did selection as a reservist, but I did
the regular selection.
Um, and there was a part that was missed
out, which was the jungle phase, which we
did, uh, a different phase in the UK.
Right.
I was in there with everyone else.
Um, so it's joint together, joint special
forces selection.
So I had gone as a reservist, so I had a
job and stuff as well.
So I quit my job, quit where I was living.
And I focused solely on that.
So if I failed, I'd be homeless and jobless, but
that was a technique that I learned in my life.
Like I have to go all in on things.
Um, and then that's in my mind as well.
Like there's no fall back plan here.
I'm full steam ahead.
So there's no turning back.
I like that.
Yeah.
That's just something that.
Do because I know there's no other way out of it.
I've got to go forward.
But also actually when you're on the marches
and stuff, I have a very imaginative mind and
I like to daydream and I actually spoken to
friends in the Marines, talk about running
and, and I'd say about when you're running.
Um, I just go off in a daydream about things
and my mind can be gone for awhile and then
I'd come back and I'll feel the pain again.
Um, Yeah, I can go away and just daydream about
things for a long time.
That's cool.
Yeah.
And some, and I speak to other people in
there, like, and I talk about that and they're
like, what the hell are you talking about?
And I'm like, oh, you can't, you don't do that.
No.
So I don't know.
Maybe I have something that other
people don't, but
the honesty.
How do you find your situational awareness
when you, when you're in that daydream process, is
it kind of, are you still able to be able to pick
up on the key things that
yeah, I seem to just be okay.
Like when I was on this, on the Hills selection,
I was actually, I had two songs in my
head, which I could never listen to again.
And I would just sing those songs
over and over again.
And yeah, I could never listen to
those songs again.
And there were very strange songs.
It was that pina colada song, you know, and
also the, another one is I don't like cricket.
I love it.
I just heard them on the radio and I couldn't
get them out of my head.
But once I started going through the lyrics in my
head, it just played over and over again, that just
passed the time because a lot of it was, it was
hours of just running a March and on my own.
And you can't listen to music.
And usually I like to listen to music
if I'll run and get into a bit of a, like
a daydream state, but
funny, because how you described that I actually
do something similar.
So if I've got a pack on I'm going up the mountain
and it's, I know I've got a long distance to go, I
will do the same thing.
I'll make up my own songs, usually to a beat,
sort of like pina coladas of goofy things like
this, but I'll make up my own words inside there.
At, uh, I w I've never actually heard
somebody say this.
Yeah, no, it's definitely a technique.
And I don't know if it's taught to people,
but maybe people can start trying to do it
because it's been really beneficial for me.
And I did it in rural Marine training as
well, because there's a lot of running and
stuff in that and long distance marches.
So I think is very beneficial.
I don't know what you would think about.
I can't do something just to think about
this as horrendous.
This is a render site all the way round.
You have to take your mind somewhere
else.
I started it simply because I was in Chrisley
country area with a lot of Grizzlies and a ton
of Grizzlies sign in your spot and I'm all over.
And so I just.
I figured I'd make noise and I'd sing something
out loud and it was just something that
comes to your head.
And then after a while, it's just something
I continued to do.
And I would either just sing it in my head.
Cause you don't want to sound like
a lunatic singing weird lyrics and yeah.
But, um, luckily no one else was
around to listen to
and you didn't get attacked by any bears?
No,
no.
I was able, it was good on that one.
Yeah.
Oh great.
Yeah.
I definitely use it.
I think they should, maybe, maybe people
have studied it maybe is a technique of a,
like a mind mantra.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But also I'd like to daydream about the
end result of what I was going to achieve.
If I passed that's enough, a big factor
that I used when I was a Royal Marine,
like actually getting presented with my beret
and then in selection, I would always think about
what the end goal is.
And that would be another daydream that
I'll go deep into.
And I still do this all the time.
That's um, you know, being able to focus on
that end goal to make it happen, they call it
like manifest destiny.
You think about it'll end up happening.
Um, some people agree or disagree, but from
the psychological perseverance factor, I
think that's massive.
That's a, uh, it's interesting.
So.
When you're you didn't do the jungle phase,
uh, jungle phase.
How long does that usually last it's about
month, roughly.
Yeah.
So we did an SOP phase.
So in the Hills, you're tested on your
mindset and a little bit of navigation, but
mainly it's physical fitness and your
robustness as a soldier.
And then when you go to the jungle, my
face was the SOP phase was held in the UK.
You're tested on your soldier and skills and
how you work in a team.
Um, but also a bit of it's arduous as well.
Um, so I was doing stuff like jungle Joe's in the
UK and stuff, but I did mine in November, so it
was pretty cold and we had a small team of guys.
So the point that you is bringing up just
now we did one activity whilst in the field,
which was, uh, which was one of the hardest
things I've done, but it came out of nowhere.
Um, so we did a river crossing, which is a
normal thing to do in the Royal Marines, but the
idea was just to get you and your kit soaking wet.
And it was November.
So it was freezing.
There was like ice on the floor.
So we did this, uh, river cross in around 6:00 PM.
After other training, we'd been
doing other stuff.
And then we got out and then they had this
massive, um, this massive block, which was, I don't
know how much weight, maybe 200 pounds or more,
and at the straps on it.
And we'd used it in exercises.
And they said it was a WMD, but it was just
like for messing us around buses, basically,
it's just a heavy, heavy, big metal.
Box with straps on it.
And uh, they said, alright, pick it up.
We also had our Bergens and field kits.
So our Bergens and everything was heavy
as it was and rifles and everything.
So we picked it up and it started around.
I remember looking at my watch, started
around 7:00 PM and they said, right, you've got
carry this, uh, to the next grid coordinate.
And this is it off you go.
So there was six of us at this time.
So two of us could have a rest, but they were
still running with the Bergen and everything.
And so we started at seven and we, we we'd go.
And I remember lifting it first and thinking,
oh, wow, this is heavy.
And we literally run about dunno 30 meters
and then have to stop and then run 30 meters
and then have to stop because of the weight
of it was putting our shoulders down.
And then we'd get in a system where we rotated.
So that went for a couple of hours and we
kept getting to this next grid reference.
And then the guy would say, next one, Oh, if
you go, we kept doing it.
So then four hours went past and it was the
middle of the night and then six hours went past
and then it turns out we did it for 12 hours.
Yeah.
And it went into the morning, like
seven in the morning.
And then we had to, uh, have a whole day
of like break contacts and which is a very
arduous activity anyway.
And, and very, you have to think about a
lot when you're like breaking away from the
enemy fire and maneuver.
And, um, so there was things like that,
that you didn't know when the end was kind
of be, and it was a psychological test.
And also on the exercise, they gave us one ration
pack for one day and we were out there
on this part of the exercise was a seven
day out in the field.
Um, and then now give us little bits of food after
a few days, but we were very, um, weak as well.
We didn't have much foods that it was, it was,
uh, that was one of the hardest aspects actually.
It's an unusual one because there
was no tactical advantage of that.
It was just, let's see, who's going to
break or basically put them into this
mindset where they're extremely fatigued and
then we're going to test them as a soldier.
I think that was the purpose.
So they say that which doesn't kill you,
makes you stronger.
Right.
But not necessarily, right.
I mean, you can be poisoning a person
and slowly over time they might not be
dead, but they might not be stronger.
Right.
Um, I think that there's how you, how your body
responds to the, uh, the hardship and then
how your mind responds to the hardship is
what can eventually make you stronger?
Did you find that some people were unable
to cope with that?
And eventually now they're carrying
with them that the psychological,
um, harder.
Ongoing or is you
mean people that passed or people that failed?
Well,
I guess maybe, or maybe both.
I mean like the people that failed and I
know some people have gone through and have
been unsuccessful at selection and it took
a long time for them to get their heads
squared around that one.
Cause they felt, uh, poorly about it.
Um, But as well, some people who've been
successful with it that have gone through and,
uh, some people have, uh, absolutely loved
their experiences.
And some people look back and say, I wish I did
something differently.
I think the pendulum swings both ways.
Cause I remember seeing a lot of soldiers with me
and I was, I missed the whole Afghan sort of ops.
So I was in a, I was a corporal.
So I was quite established and I was
experienced in soldier in, I hadn't done
an actual operation and there's a whole
generation of us now that have haven't
had that experience.
But there were guys in my, uh, selection
who had had like three or four tours of mix
of Afghan and Iraq.
And there's one guy in particular who was one
of the most switched on proficient soldiers
I've ever worked with, uh, met, but he was
a little bit older.
Um, so he at the moment.
Obviously, but his body wasn't holding up
anymore through the Hills and everything else.
So he found cause of injuries and this is
a common occurrence.
Um, so he, he was exceptionally skilled,
but his body just couldn't take it,
but he was only like 31 at that time.
And I was a lot younger.
Right.
Um, so you do lose a lot of people because
of that, the physical, like smashing that you
take, but in terms of if people actually, um,
psychologically affected from it, I think you just
take the positive side.
That's the part of the purpose.
Cause you go through all that then, and then
the next time you're in the situation like,
well, this is easy.
Cause I've already been through not
eating for four days.
Right.
It's still operating with no sleep over
those free days or something as well.
Um, so yeah, it's good to go through the
hardship if you want.
Uh, the best soldier at the end of.
The selection
process.
So you're watching the clock.
You're looking at your watch as you
go through there.
Seven o'clock and here we go.
Did you find the minutes to start dragging on or?
Well,
I, I, it was, so this thing was so heavy
that we, at the end, we could do like five,
six steps and then nearly collapsing.
And I just thought, oh, we're going to do
this for a few hours.
They simply can't go further than a few hours
because this is so heavy.
Like, we can't move it, it's taken so long
and it just kept going and going, and we
weren't really allowed to talk to each other.
So it was just like catching
glimpses of people.
Like, is this for real?
We're just going to keep going.
Like, and later in that actual course, um, cause
we do a lot of amphibious stuff and Klepper
is like a two person kayak that we used.
It was actually later on that same
exercise we had.
CLA build this Klepper.
We have to carry it on your back as well.
Part of that, and then paddle out quite far,
and then back in, uh, to like the, the base.
Um, and when we came back in from the
base, a few lads had actually gone down.
Three of them, had a hypothermia
and stuff and they failed because of it.
Um, and I don't know, these people didn't have
so much meat on them and stuff, but they were
extremely fit and they would all, they already
passed Hills phase and they'd already done
some very extreme stuff.
I think it was a bit questionable in my
mind why they needed to fail because it wasn't
their mind that failed.
They got to the end, it was their
body that failed.
But yeah,
it's gotta be rough.
Yeah.
That'd be rough putting yourself
through all of that only to find out that.
You're hypothermic just based on yeah, yeah.
To fit.
Yeah, exactly.
And a lot of people do get to the end of these
phases, especially the jungle and the stories
come out from the guys that went to the jungle.
They get to the end and then you get what's
called a stand up fail.
And that site, the DS, the training team
say, we don't like you basically, or there's
something you did a long time ago in week.
One of this, that's a red flag and you're
out, but we let you go to the end because,
because we're assholes.
Exactly.
Um, and a lot of people do get failed
on their personality.
Um, because in, in the Hills phase, you're
just a number, but when you've moved further
down the line, then you start, they looking at
you as an individual.
Um, the type of person you are now.
Work under pressure.
And there's certain attributes, which
they don't tell you.
I don't even know what they are.
Um, but if you tick one of those boxes
you're gone and there's obviously a
lot thought and there's reason behind it.
Um, yeah, selfishness is one of the main
ones, um, and integrity.
I know for a fact, so integrity in the
military, especially in the Royal Marines, is,
is one of the biggest aspects that you could
take in and any sort of line or deception, uh,
you be in a bad place.
If you get found out, have not been truthful.
And that's, uh, that's something I can
definitely get behind.
I, uh, you know, anybody working at silver Cortel
and the same thing, you know, if you make
a mistake, that's okay.
People make mistakes happens all the time.
I will take a look at what we can do to fix it.
So it doesn't happen again.
And if that mistake keeps happening over and over
again, then maybe we're going to have to have a
chat to see why that is.
If you lie about.
What you're doing, or for whatever reason, create a
situation where you can't be trusted, that's it?
Because I've got no time to be around people that
you just can't trust.
I have no problem with people make mistakes
and I, and I can a hundred percent get
behind that as well.
But I find it interesting.
Now you've got a special forces individual who's
going to be required to be deceptive in
escape and evasion type situations or to, uh,
essentially, um, be the gray man and bend
sort of societal norms.
Yeah.
How does that work?
Uh, well, you still loyalty your sides
and your team.
So yeah, there's always like the
enemy in yourselves.
Yeah.
Integrity is, is, is such an important part
of being a soldier in general, but in the
special forces would be even higher than
that because the things that you're taught and
you learn can really jeopardize, uh, larger
scale operations and even diplomatic relations.
Um, so yeah, I dunno.
Do they do, I, I remember reading about a bit of
an interrogation phase.
Did you have we go through
something like that?
Yeah.
Yeah, you do.
And it's called CA um, and it's a, it's a
course and it's probably the most knowledge
knowledgeable course that I went through.
That the one that I took the most from, and it
was the most interesting.
And I'd love to do this sort of training again
when I wasn't in a state of like physical
exhaustion and, uh, like just weakness because I
was so like beaten and.
Deandre, not DRG, but like malnourished.
And, uh, my body was aching and
everywhere and I was like sleep deprived.
And then I was learning some of the most
coolest stuff I've ever learned in my life,
but I was couldn't enjoy it, you know?
Cause I was being tested all the time and also
I was so fatigued.
Um, but I still took a lot from those,
that course in
particular.
So what did it, are you able to talk
about?
I can talk about certain things.
Um, and I know I'll only talk about it because
I've heard it on other podcasts or read it,
Andy McNabb's book.
And that was one of the biggest, um, incidents
that ever happened to the, not the British
medical abortions when he was his patrol
was captured and some of them escaped
and stuff like that.
Yeah.
And that was like, The CA training that came into
play, and that's what the worst case scenario
for what can happen.
So you do go through that and when you come out
the other end, you have a lot of good skills and
drills that you could use to save your life and,
and, and stuff like that.
Uh,
still being rather cryptic.
So, yeah, because this is one that is
drilled into you.
And also, I never want to give away anything
that can damage guys on the ground, obviously,
but that there are other people that we talked
about ed called her own and Ed's manifesto, which
does a lot of the scape and evasion sort of tools
and little tactics and stuff that the cartels
in Mexico are using.
Uh, and it's a big interest of mine.
I love all that sort of stuff.
And I carry, I learned some things in my
course that I carry with me and, and.
Do you use should that worst case
scenario happen?
Cause I do close protection now and
not body garden.
Um, if I ever was ever kidnapped or ever, like
if I was ever tied up plastic cuffed, then
some there's some good things that, to use that,
to get out of that, um, that I would recommend.
And I know we discussed this on, I'm going to
stop making products that people can use
maybe even for solo travelers, but also in
the security industry.
Uh, there's a need for having some like CF
type tools to escape from situations.
If you're in the worst case scenario.
And no, we, um, w we talked about those
para cord bracelets that were all the rage
at one point in time.
And I
did have friends that were in those.
I never had one
myself.
No, I've never had, what am I remember?
The, uh, it was a meme.
They had a, this cartoon character, and
he's thinking about all these cool things
he can do with his para cord bracelet.
He's locked in prison and he's using it to
cut through bars and abs sail out the window
and use it to fish.
And then it showed the reality and his
friends were like, huh.
So you wear a bracelet now.
Huh?
That's cool.
I guess
it's tactical
bracelet to go.
So, so what sort of CA tools would,
uh, would you
promote?
Well, the most effective tool that I ever
experienced, which I carry with me when I'm
working all the time is a Kevlar cord in a
way, because I don't want to give out like
handcuff escape things because criminals are
out there using these.
And that's another aspect, you know, Feed
the criminal criminal people out there more,
uh, cause they actually obviously go and buy
these products, watch the train in and,
and I'm sure they do for ads manifesto to.
But mine most effective would be if I was going
to get plastic AFT tape restrain with tape or
rope, and then this, these Kevlar chords
two loops and then a string, and it can be
folded up very small.
And then you can just use your feet in a bicycle
motion around, and it just cuts through those
things apart from metal, obviously, and for people
solo travelers or anyone traveling to a high risk
areas and for security workers, I think this
is a very good tool.
So I'm going to be trying I'm experiment
in at the moment, um, in a way that, cause also
it's not metal, so you can carry it when you
go on airplanes around and it would also be
a good survival tool.
It could be great to see.
It would be very good for that if we ever had to.
Yes.
Um, that's funny, you know, I think, I think
there's definitely something to be said for,
um, having the tools, but also having the, the
knowledge and the mind to be able to adapt to
the situations and, um, use what you have around
you or use what you brought with you in, and
sort of alternate ways.
And, you know, I, I remember years ago I
worked for, um, cable company, I guess we
had, I think it was Telus and Shaw or
something, whatever it was that we had.
And Shaw came over over from back east and
decided to offer the cable TV for everyone.
And so I got hired and I'm supposed to
be doing audits and I got to go around and I
got to check to see if people are essentially
stealing cable.
And if they are, then I got to try and upsell
them or disconnect them.
And when you have to do apartment blocks,
they, you got to drive downtown Vancouver.
Pick up a big set of keys.
And then you got your list of all the places
you gotta go to and you get into the apartments
and you get into the, uh, um, into the,
uh, the cable rooms, the electrical rooms.
And I thought, man, I'm wasting a lot of time
driving all the way down to Vancouver, then off
to go to either Richmond or Delta or wherever
in and do these things.
I'll just bring lockpicks with me.
I hate.
And so I was got very good at just
picking the locks as allowed to be there as
permitted to be there.
I wasn't doing anything untowards or illegal
and, uh, ended up making my own key sets for,
uh, the internal locks.
I thought, well, the alloy, as well as, uh,
what was the other one, the ACE, uh, that you'll
find on the outside and you start to get this
sort of, uh, Pigeon hole and this narrow
frame of reference.
And I would just walk up and open the picks
and I picked my way in and here I go.
And sometimes you're working on a lock
for a while and like, huh, come on.
Maybe it would've been smarter to go.
And I realized that when you have that skill set
and you have the, uh, the knowledge, you have
to always, always be open to alternate ways.
Cause I remember working on one for a
while only to realize I could probably reach
my arm around on this one thing through a
little mail slot and just open the door.
Oh, there you go.
And I'm in.
So I had to completely readdress how I
for speed sake.
So I get the job done, how I approach
these things and I'd always put the tools.
Second.
Is there a fast way I can get in?
It's just somebody going in through another door
and I can just scoot in behind them or is
there, um, can I reach around the corner?
Can I, can I just get a little, uh, uh, I forget
what they call it made this little sort of slim
Jim type thing a shove.
It.
Anyways.
Yummy.
Yeah.
It's quite a niche that was skilled at
lockpicking and it takes a lot of time.
I don't know you must've got quite good at it
and it's also quite satisfying thing.
Yeah.
So I was trying to practice practicing at
home and my parents' house and the doors
and the front doors.
I managed to get them, but I wouldn't
be a good burglar.
I'd have to allocate two hours to get in.
Well,
you know, sometimes you're in bang
lickety-split sometimes you're just taking
a while and that's where, um, being
able to laterally look at problems.
Sometimes it's just a matter of jumping up
to the second floor and getting in, but.
Uh, you have on the lockpicking side, I,
I could hold my own.
It was a hobby started when I was in grade four.
I learned it then, and then I would always play
around with it, got into a little bit of trouble
in my youth, uh, with it and then learned how not
to get in trouble and the right way to do things.
So,
yeah.
Yeah.
I've I used one of those little guns at
one point, you know, flicks it's didn't
work too good either.
No.
And they, that works off the bump system.
So like, if you, if you think about it, like, um,
you take three pennies.
I don't even, we don't even have pennies
anymore, three, three quarters and you put
them or put two of them together and you ran
the third one into it.
And the one in the middle stays still and
the other one goes off.
That's how those tend to work.
And that's where the, the, the bump key kind
of been around forever, but just within the
last 10 or so years, the Internet's kind of, yeah.
Kind of got those going, but yeah,
those little guns.
Yeah,
I prefer to breach the door, slow, safe
manner, to be honest.
Well, that was always an opposite.
I would say that would be absolutely
the preferred way to
do it.
Yeah.
That's more exciting, although you're
going loud, but that was kind of the job
that I used to do.
So loudness is part of it.
Very cool.
So, all right.
On the, the line of, uh, sort of CA
accessories that you're talking about, is there
anything else that you're, uh, you're
sort of looking at?
Uh,
I, I'm very big on privacy and personal
privacy and because I did work in the
world of corporate espionage and there was
a lot of gray areas I talked about before.
Um, and there's a lot of, uh, like we've
our cell phones.
Well I've learned is that it's compromised and you
have to assume everything is compromised.
And whether you are worried about the
government listening or watching what you're
doing in some sort of algorithm setting,
not an actual person sitting there in the FBI
watch new personally, which is not really the
reality, or whether you work in a high business
sort of setting and the information that
you hold and use in the business meetings you
have could be beneficial to a competitor.
Cause that's sort of is, is the world
that, uh, corporate espionage goes down,
um, or wherever you are.
In a sort of marriage sort of dispute
and your high net worth individual.
Cause that's also the area that I was working
in which people paying us to spy on their spouses
or someone they're about to have a divorce with.
And then, um, they want custody of the kids
and stuff like that.
And you have to look for different angles
of what crimes or, or information could
benefit your client.
So, and also for me, I don't really want.
My phone watching my every move and
then advertising about things that are
in my environment, which is happening.
Um, and people have been saying that for many
years, but it is true.
And it does listen to you and it does what
you and scanned your facial expressions.
And we'll go into this technology world.
I like to have a hard switch that in the
evenings, I'll put my phone in a Faraday bag
for instance, which is a.
Uh, signal blocking bag and put it away.
And that's not because I think the
government is listening to me or anything.
It's mainly because I don't want to be hanging
off my phone all the time when I'm with my family
and spending time, my daughter, for instance.
So when I have a bit of a balance and that's
a good way to do that, but also if, if I was
working in security and I was with a client, I
would recommend this sort of stuff for business
meetings as well.
Um, so I've got a few products along those
lines that are in the pipeline come in, which I
use quite a lot as well.
Well, you let me know, cause I'm going to get
one of those Faraday bags off you, but
definitely we did a, uh, a hunting trip.
Recently.
We had two separate vehicles and we took
a raft up on, uh, uh, the Fraser and
we took it to this.
I got a little, a whitewater raft.
You could put a hundred K down.
Uh, the river and, um, my vehicle at the
bottom figured, well, I don't want to bring
my keys with me and possibly lose them or
get them wet or whatever.
So I'll just hide them inside my vehicle.
And I got to push button lock on the outside.
I said, but if somebody broke in here, all they
got to do cause it's push button to start
is just press a break.
And they start on up and they took my vehicle.
So I tried placing it, all these different
areas and we're thinking, well, maybe, maybe
we got to just hide it somewhere else.
And, and then, uh, anyways, we had
some materials.
I made a quick Faraday bag.
It worked right.
We're good.
It's kind of like the old blockbuster days where
you take a, a blockbuster video and they got
the RFID tab there.
He held a, uh, a loony against the
big thick RFID.
And you could, you could pass it through the
thing without it going.
Beep
how do you know that
I would never do it.
And actually there is a.
I was asked to do I, uh, to speak at a
fan up in Whistler a number of years ago.
And it was a.
Put on by a PIPC private investigators association
of British Columbia.
And I did my, my little bit, but, um, one that
I thought was really interesting was a,
um, it was a group.
I think it was a father son sort of a team
that ran a business and they would turn whole
rooms into Faraday cages and they would
have a special film.
They put on the window and a special paint, and
then they paint over top of that again, so that
people don't see it.
And they would put in a, um, a repeater
lake, either a wifi or cell repeater in
the room that they can operate on a switch.
And so everybody comes in now, everybody in
this room, if they want to give a lecture or
something else, they can turn it off and nobody's
got no phones or beep and nothing's going, but
what they can also do is have everybody that, uh,
is talking inside here.
They get a copy of that information because
it's getting relayed through like some pretty
interesting stuff.
And when we talk about everything.
And everything listening and they mean people
have smart thermometers.
They've got 'em, their TV monitors will have
smart speakers or their TV is voice command.
I mean, I even remember reading an article.
I thought it was kind of interesting.
They had a secure computer that wasn't
hooked up to the internet and they
said, this is, this is our secure device.
No one can get information off
it off here.
There's other computers around
it that were hooked up to the internet.
But this one wasn't and this was supposed
to contain all of the sensitive information,
uh, in order to breach that one.
So they could remotely access.
This computer that wasn't hooked up.
They actually had someone to go in and
physically just take a thumb drive and upload a
program to the computer.
But once that program was on there, it would cause
the, um, computer to load more into its memory
and heat up and the fan would come on and then
it would take it off.
It would cool off.
And they're able to basically through a
Morris code signature as a computer, heated and
cooled another computer that was beside it, that
was hooked up to the internet, could sense
those heat variations and very, very slowly.
They could get some, uh, information
off that computer.
So, wow.
You know, you think about it, someone someone's
found a way around it or even, you know,
have you ever played with like, um, laser
beams for, uh, audio.
No, not really.
No.
So you can, you can actually transmit, uh,
audio through light and you can use laser
for concentrated, um, uh, pickup and
reception of, uh, audio.
So if you want it to, you can use a non-visible
IRR layer, like visible to the human eye and
reflected off of let's say glass, and you can
pick up those harmonics and listen on somebody
as far as that laser beam can transmit.
So the, this is new to me.
I haven't even heard about this technology,
but from what I've learned, what we know.
What is actually in existence is way
further down the
line.
If I played with, as a kid, I can only imagine
what they have now.
Yeah, because in the private sector where
I was working in the corporate espionage
world, we'd have specialists that
would come in to other companies, maybe
not, where are me.
And, uh, they would do this sort of Wi-Fi
exploitation and, uh, hacking of cell phones.
Cause that is the golden, uh, little gold nugget
that you can track people wherever they go in.
You can learn about every email, everything
that they do.
And it's a very big deal.
Um, so people that have been doing this
in a, in a professional setting for governments
tend to move in the later in their career.
So.
Move into the private sector and
carry this technical Knology with them.
Um, but yeah, so it's not a good thing, but
these aren't the only people that are using it.
Criminal organizations are now going down
this line of work.
And so obviously hackers organizations to exploit
people for money.
One that's come around.
My friend group recently over in Vancouver, um,
some females that are friends of my partner
have got emails saying that they're, they have
images of them when they're in their most
intimate times, ranged from their cell phones.
Um, They've had, uh, reports to the
police about this and they judged that it
was a fraud thing, but it happens to
girls that we know.
Um, and whether that is a fraud or not, it's still
a very stressful thing to go through someone
that's saying that if you don't give us this
money, then we're going to put on naked pictures
on the internet, on this website of you.
And that's the thing that's happened
to celebrities.
And I know it's happened to people in the
world, uh, and we're going to be going into
this sort of world now where everything
can be exploited and every electrical device
does have weaknesses.
Um, so I think like, Measures can be taken,
like for instance, a camera coverup on your
cell phone, you just flip across when you
want to use your camera.
That's not a, an extreme thing.
People use them for their laptops, but
mark, Zuckerberg's got it on his laptop.
Um, but yeah, and it's just, um, just to
safeguard really, like you don't really want
anybody watching you or taking pictures on your
phone or listening in on you, uh, any time,
whether that be like a government organization,
a criminal organization or hackers or anyone.
Um, so I think we have to take that aspect
into consideration now.
And I'm a big advocate for that because I was a
little bit in that world and it really surprised
me how the public sector are so advanced that
so advanced and, you know, people talk about,
I mean the firearms training side of things,
uh, I've talked to different law enforcement
types that will say.
I don't want to teach law enforcement tactics.
I don't want to teach what we're doing in
the, uh, in the firearms training or, uh, uh,
anything on the, uh, use of force side
because the bad guys might get ahold of this
and they might want to use it against us.
And I've always scratched my head at
that one because the bad guys already know
if they've got access to the intranet, they're
going to have access to your tactics and
what you do might not be completely drawn out
for them, but all that information is out there.
And I've always been a strong proponent of
share that information and let it get measured
against what the bad guys can do or not, or
what other people do or not, and build better
and build it stronger.
And if you can create something that's so
robust, it doesn't matter what they do,
where they don't know, um, that you're still
able to achieve your.
That's perfect.
All right.
Yeah.
And that that's sort of been, uh, sorta
my thinking, but
yeah.
And then that's also comes into the training
that I teach on Instagram and stuff with.
I go into a lot of surveillance drills
and like to teach people how to detect if
they're being followed and line of hat to tow
that I don't want to be given away drills that
could affect operators out on the ground and
right in the military or in the, in the
intelligence services.
Um, but the reality is that the game is
changing a lot and, um, real foot surveillance
is still a big aspect, but you can get so
much more information from, uh, electronical
surveillance these days, um, that this has
benefits for civilians for some of this
training, I think, um, because criminals aren't
really going to be so.
Up-to-date on surveillance,
drills and things.
And if you're not a fighting person, or
if you're not capable of fighting on the
street, or you don't want to, which a lot
of people aren't, and they need some other
tools or tactics to get out of uncomfortable
situations when a guy could be following your
home from the train station, for instance.
And that's a big thing that I tried to touch
on because I want to give people a plan
because most people don't have a plan.
It's just hope for the best, or I don't
know, think of it when it happens.
So most people have, it'll never
happen and you know, I'll deal with it.
When my daughter, I purchased your course
for my daughter, she's loving it.
And she's got her workload.
She's not done it yet.
It's quite a long course, but she's
working her way through.
You've got a lot of good information in there
and she's coming down and she's telling me
things she's learning.
She's 14 years old and there's things that.
I will have said to her, but I'm sure it's
going to come across in a different way
or from some, from yourself as an authority
that will hopefully stick in a little
bit, uh, differently.
And, uh, it was interesting because a
few weeks ago she went to the library with a
friend of hers and she's coming back and she was
getting harassed by a couple of boys on bikes.
And they're just sort of typical adolescent
sort of thing.
But in hindsight, looking at it, she was, uh,
quite upset with herself because she didn't
feel that she reacted in the proper way or
nothing happened out of the whole incident.
But, um, uh, it's a first time that she's been in
this sort of a situation.
Yeah.
And there is a lot of, uh, just being upset
cause he says, I know you said this, I know that
I, in hindsight, I should have done a, B and C.
And I think doing a course, like the one
that you have there, it normalizes and
standardizes responses within people.
It's one thing for dad to say, Hey,
you should do this.
It's another thing to just say, Hey, this is
how it's normally done.
Right.
And that's social acceptance, I guess,
behind it will cause somebody to hopefully
make the right decision more quickly.
Cause I think a lot of people are just stuck
by not wanting to look rude, not wanting to
do something that's not normal or not socially.
Yeah.
That is a big one.
And it's good that she recognizes it
and is going to improve what she did.
And that is part of why I made the course
is because of the experiences that I've
had and the people that I've learned from.
Um, and when you're growing up and you're
young, you need to make these mistakes.
And I'm trying to give them a bit of
a li like guidance.
So they don't make the big mistakes.
Right.
They have a plan.
If things go the wrong way or
recognize it early on.
Um, so I'm really happy that she's taken the
cautious benefit from it.
That because this is the demographic, I'm a
father myself, and it's partly why I created it.
And also, uh, it's, I'm happy that she's
actually taking the course because a lot of
people of our age group, aren't going to take it.
You know, they're not going to be interested
in it unless something bad has happened.
So it's also out there.
People can get it for free or pay what they can
and fathers or mothers who are protective,
um, take the course and then slowly filter
that information.
The important stuff down to the people that
need it, or the people that don't really look
for it, but you can teach them the most.
That was part of the idea
as well.
It's smart, you know, What's it called
it's self-defense without fighting.
Yeah.
And it's specifically geared around situational
awareness and geared towards women.
Yeah.
But I, everything that's in there is
also applicable to men.
Yeah.
And there will be other courses coming, but that
was the first project.
Um, um, mainly because of my partner suggested
it and said that she had learned a lot
from me and she would like to help out.
And also there's a lot of incidents that happen.
Like Vancouver recently, there was a lady that
was followed all the way through Chinatown
and she actually got a phone out and videoed
the guy following her.
And I've done an analysis of that video
is quite scary thing.
Cause the guys knows that he's what he's doing.
He's a, he's a recurrent offender.
We find out later down the line.
He's not phased that she's filming him and he
gets very close at times.
And luckily it was in the daytime.
And luckily this lady goes and associates
herself with a group of skaters in a skate
park, which is something that I teach, um, called
apparent allies is to associate yourself
with another group or person or a good thing
as an authority figure.
And that's like an action plan that is quite
obvious to us to do, but so some people, they
might not think of that, especially if they're
in a panic situation.
Um, so yeah, there's just different
options like that.
I think if you're not inclined to fight or
you haven't trained in fighting them fighting,
probably isn't your best option in a lot
of scenarios, but then there is, uh, a
scenario when fighting is your only option to
be good at fighting.
You have to train.
So I do send that message out as well.
It's important to have some experience or train.
Yeah.
And there's definitely something to be said
for someone who's can carry themselves with
the confidence, knowing that they can fight.
In order to be able to mitigate a fight.
And I remember even just looking like in my
youth as a, as a bouncer and just looking at
the, the human dynamic in a bunch of guys in
a nightclub alcohol's involved and it would
always be funny when a person comes up and says,
oh, you're a big guy.
And they started trying to test you out and
try you out and on, maybe we should fight.
Let's fight mana.
I don't want to fight.
Okay.
And he watched him sort of escalate and ramp up.
The more you say you don't want to fight the
more aggressive they get in that turned.
Okay.
Let's fight.
No, no, no, no.
And we'll come back down and then it would
kind of be a fun little game where I just kind
of watch and we just play it back and forth
and watch it go up and down and up and down.
Just sign to see exactly where their,
their threshold is that they're not in there.
Uh, Probably not in their best, most cognitive
place at the time.
Oh, definitely plays a big part in that
doesn't especially work in the doors.
I did that myself.
Yeah.
It's a great training ground to watch
human behavior, to the influence of
alcohol as well.
And there's no mistakes.
There's no question about who is the most
aggressive and it's men, isn't it even
a hundred percent.
And that's something that I do push out
in my course, because it's just the fact,
and there's no way you can hide from that.
Um, they we've, we've done bad things in
the past as a, as a gender, you know, so we
can't hide from that.
We need to acknowledge it.
And the aggression between men and women
can be different too.
I remember a grandfather and father, uh,
Vancouver police.
I don't know when it came in, probably in
my grandfather's day, but the, um, I guess
anti stalking laws.
Being relayed to me how they brought in some
new anti stalking laws, because they figured
the, um, ha would have a tool that they can use a
boat against men who were stalking their wives.
And they were surprised to find that the majority
of people that they found that were stalking, at
least at that time were women stalking men.
But I guess the big difference was is that
when a woman's stocked a guy, it didn't typically
end in the same level of violence than when a
man is stalking a woman.
So, you know, there's men just.
Genetically, whatever it is from a simple
profiling perspective or the when's that these,
uh, uh, women should be looking out for.
And a lot of it is common sense as well.
So a lot of the course I do drill on home, like
common sense topics, but most people that take
the course and learn about it and say, oh
yeah, I didn't really think of it in that way.
And it's just highlighting what we
instinctually know anyway, as human
beings, you know?
Yeah.
Um, so yeah, I just looking at other angles
and the things that I've learned throughout
my core career and teaching to the general
population for an
public.
Well, that's what I mean about normalizing it.
I mean, somebody can just know, they can
know what to do and still not do it because
they just, it doesn't.
It's not something that's sort of ingrained as
this is how you respond.
Like if you act in a certain way against
me, instinctually, I will, I'll have
some gut reactions and gut feelings.
But if I realize that it's acceptable and
normal for me to take the next couple of steps,
like a person doesn't have to hit me first for
me to hit them the fights already on before they,
once they're in my space, that fight is on, right?
Yeah.
Uh,
that comes with experience as well.
Doesn't it read in that behavior that is being
presented to you and the first time you're in
that experience, you're not going to know when
that punch is coming.
Right.
You're also not going to know how to get
out the way of it.
So yeah, that's when the day of the race
happens, it's good to, uh, not be in the street
in a real situation.
It's good to be in a training environment.
First, you have a bit of a, a backup of what to
do.
Now you do a fair bit of a training
yourself, don't
you?
Yeah, I do.
Yeah.
I like a boxer by trade I'd say from a
young age and I did it in the Royal Marines.
Um, one of the Royal Marine light heavyweight
POCs in championship light, heavyweight.
I looked a bit different then, but it was muscle.
Good for you.
Hey, I know I do mixed martial arts and
particularly my interest is in jujitsu because
it is a very good sport.
I love it.
I wish I found it a long time ago, but
yeah, fighting's always been a part of my,
my life and also my.
Growing up my culture, as well as English man,
you know, Queensberry rules, bare knuckle
box in and stuff.
I was actually looking into bare knuckle
box in it's quite barbaric, but also it's
kind of traditional for my heritage
has been English.
You know, it's an interest, although
it is, it's a bloody sport and it is
quite a niche thing.
Right.
I can see why fans will be turned off from it,
but it's quite raw, but that's maybe in the
works in the future.
Have you done
that before?
Well, yeah, many times, but not in a ring.
I hear that, but I did have arranged
fights as a youngster.
Like I was a lad and I had a reputation
and people would come into our town and I'll
meet them and fight them in like parking
lot and stuff like.
Yeah, which isn't advisable, it's not a
great thing to do, but that was part of my life.
And I didn't do that stuff.
So yeah, I do have experienced some bare
knuckle boxing in that respect, but I always
adhere to Queensbury rules, which is like,
you fight standing up and then one goes down and
then either they give up or they get back up and
you continue the fight.
And I always did to that, and that's quite like a
gentleman's agreement.
And so did most of the people that I had trouble
with in the past, in my generation, but that's
not the case anymore.
Isn't it?
And I've experienced the other end of
that, like getting dropped and then people
continuing the fight when I was unconscious.
And I actually had.
Face, uh, I've got metal plate in my face here,
uh, and reconstructive surgery, cause some
stamping on my head and stuff, you know,
for me, that is on it's just so disrespectful.
You know, there's an honor in, in, in a bit of
combat on the street for when I was doing it in
my day and light, it was more of a pride thing.
It's an ego driven thing.
It's definitely stupid.
Sure.
But it, it happened, but to take it further
to stamp on someone's head over a spilled
drink outside of a pub is not really, there's
no honor in that, but that is the reality
we're in these days.
And also that's why I'm teaching fighting
as a last resort.
If you're getting into a fight, that's, you've
made some mistakes, the weekly focus on
mainly not to get to that point in the
first place, you know?
Yeah, no, you're on the ground.
You can expect to have everybody else kicking.
Right.
And you're fighting one person.
You can expect there to be more than one person.
It's a.
Yeah, absolutely.
A hundred percent good to know how to
fight and then throw that in the Bach back
pocket and use it in an absolute last resort.
Yeah, it's on top of that, the prevalence of
people carrying weapons, um, whatever it is or
picking one up that they look around and
they can use whatever they want as a weapon.
And it's a.
Being able to, you know, another big part of that
skill set, which I think is important is number
one, just, uh, uh, you know, the awareness and
the avoidance, and being able to put yourself
in the most beneficial position so that you
don't, uh, find yourself at the altercation
or interaction to begin with.
But number two, and it's something that, uh, some
people are very good at.
He is sort of like the verbal judo, and I
think that's actually trademarked verbal judo.
Yeah.
So you got to call out tact, tactical
communications.
The police used to call it verbal judo,
and now they call them tack comms because
they guess it's, it's actually trademarked.
And then being able to deescalate a situation
through proxemics through your body language,
through your, uh, verbal, through your non-verbal.
And that's, that's a huge art form is.
Yeah.
Yeah, that is.
And unfortunately, I'm, I'm a beginner
in that art form and I'll openly admit that
that's something that I have to work on.
And I have been working on insecurity as a
body guard because, you know, you can't just go
into a scrap when he's trying to really looking
after someone, right.
This deescalation is extremely important and
I'm proficiency in it.
But growing up, I was not.
So there was always a, I knew when the
fight was on and then we got to the fight.
So that whole awkward, like I hate
the confrontation.
I hate standing in front of someone and they'd
like threatening me or, or saying, they're
going to do something.
They're going to do something, do it.
Right.
It's like this whole thing, like either we
go in and we're not.
So that was my mentality as a youngster, but
that got me into more trouble than, than if
I was good at talking my way out of things.
And that was a gap in my skillset.
This has been, but also, oh, it was.
Truffle.
Thank you myself.
So
that's all part of the learning process.
Yeah.
Like you say, hopefully you make those mistakes
in small doses and in ways that you could
recover from and really ingrained and learn from
them, like my daughter, nothing happened and
there is, she recognizes things that could have
been done differently.
Small mistake build upon it.
That's fantastic.
This is great experience for people to go
through.
Yeah.
Great.
That she came and talked to you about it as well.
And that shows that you got a great
relationship there.
I think.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
We
try really hard.
That's a, that's one thing that's one of
my life priorities is have a strong family.
Yeah, we do.
I could, I could care less about anything else.
If push comes to shove that makes sure we've
got a strong family unit.
Same with my kids.
I let them know, you know, some point
something could happen to your mom or me.
You guys gotta be able to look after each other.
You got to just gotta be able to know.
You're confident to look after yourselves
and you're always there for each other.
So we ingrained that very deeply, as well
as the honesty part.
I don't care.
Just like what you're talking about.
The integrity part.
Th it doesn't matter, you gotta be honest.
Right?
You gotta let us know we'll work through it.
Yeah.
That's a very important point for
parenting as well.
And that's the journey that I'm on.
Uh, hence why all this training and
that, and try and prepare my daughter
for the outside world.
And I have a bit of a warped perception of the
outside world, because I've been in the dark
side of it a lot of the time, you know, and
preparing to deal with the dark side of it
has been my job and it still is, but yeah, I'm
kind of this balance.
Isn't there, you have to be prepared, spreads.
What do they say?
It's to be a warrior in a garden rather
than a gardener in
a war.
Yes.
Um, and that preparation thing is going to be
difficult too, because of your background and
because of what you've seen in the world, As
you say, being warped.
I don't know.
It just, it is what it is.
It's it's the world and it's just how
you've viewed it.
Being able to impart what you need without
warping your daughter's version of the world as
he grows up, it doesn't matter what we do.
I'm sure we're going to make mistakes.
There's going to be something they look
back on, but that's, um, that's a difficult,
tight rope I should imagine for, for
you to work through.
Yeah, yeah.
Obviously as a protector self-defense is at the
forefront, but I think that it should be it's,
especially for jujitsu.
If you learn jujitsu from a young age,
The ability to free up your whole life.
I don't know what better skill or any sort
of self-defense are.
You could give to a child or to a young
person, to be honest, because then you
carry that confidence.
And that knowing that if something goes bad,
I have some experience or I have some moves or
an idea of what I can do my own capabilities.
So I do have an idea of getting out and then
I'll be more confident in her going out and
doing all this traveling.
Like I did, you know, travel.
I traveled a lot on my own.
Um, and I'm going to be doing a course of
solo travel, which is going to incorporate
a lot of situational awareness and stuff.
Because as a body guards, that was one of
my niches is taking a family on their vacation.
And quite often in Europe, um, they
only want one.
Bodyguard one protector.
Um, and they don't really want you hanging
off their shoulder all the time as a
petition, traditional body guard would do.
And this was a niche that I had to fill and
they're the client.
They pay the bills, so they don't want to see
you around them, but they still want a protective
bubble around them.
And you're just one person in a
foreign country.
So I have to deal with that sort of in the, the
reality is that you can't protect them a hundred
percent, but you can have contingencies in place.
And that is basically life isn't it
contingencies in place, but you can't always
be fully protected.
Yeah.
And you talk about the martial arts and
jujitsu at an early age.
That's a very important, the one thing that I
always try to hammer home and I still do with my
kids is the ability to use her voice and scream
and create witnesses.
And even if you know, the, um, the police
teach it as well, right.
They tell us someone's dropped that one.
Well, why would I tell a person to
drop that weapon?
If I didn't see if they had a weapon or not?
Well, you just created a whole bunch of other
people around, let's say, oh, that guy's probably
got a weapon, right?
So you're, you're protecting yourself in
the instance, you're using your voice
and allowed way, but you're also creating
witnesses, which you've got your incident.
Pre-incident, let's avoid it.
Incident K fight sawn and post incident.
Man, that's going to be with you for a long time.
Everybody can go and look over this and if
it reaches a courtroom, you're going to be into
it for a number of years.
And then it's in the back of your head for
the rest of your life.
So how do you deal with that whole
post-incident thing?
And if you can create witnesses that might be
able to help you with the, or the legal side,
and if you're taking the proper steps, like
what you've put together in your course here,
that can hopefully, uh, help the, the mental
reframing of, of what happened to be a bit
more of a positive thing.
Even if it's you did everything right.
And this is a learning experience.
Yeah.
And there's also aspects of my course that goes
into, after an incident, how do we get this bad
guy off the streets in the most effective way?
How do we report it to the police and how do
we memorize important things about them?
So speaking to retired police officers and
they say, it's, yeah, it's good to have a full
description, but when all the chaos is happening,
it's good to remind them about one distinctive
thing about this person that can't be changed.
And that's an obvious thing, like a scar
or a tattoo or some facial feature that
you is distinctive.
And you would remember, and could be found when
they're walking around the street or, and it
also could be identified on a lineup as well.
So yeah, I do go into this and I wrote an
ebook that was part of the course, which is
attached to it about after the incident.
So there's a lot of things and even goes
into active shooters and things like that
and what to do because.
Yeah, there's a lot of,
to have to take this course.
I got it for my daughter.
I'm going to have to take this course.
Yeah.
So this is an ebook, this attached to it,
which is just a little side thing, but it's
actually, I could probably ever wanted to
sell it on its own as a book because it's, it's
a lot of my knowledge.
Various experiences into one thing.
And also I've got a connection with like
police officers, other special forces guys
who are currently in, um, intelligence
agency staff.
I've worked amongst these people with time
and security experts, and I just bounce
my ideas off them.
And then they say other ideas and I collate
them into my courses and my training.
So it's a perfect setup,
actually kidding.
So we're going to have links on both on the,
uh, the YouTube and on the podcast and
people can pull it up and whatever they,
their podcast provider and it'll link over.
We'll make sure we have links that, that, so
people can check it out.
Um, one of the other things that, uh, uh,
we've been talking about a little bit, which I
don't know much about, but I'm loved learning
and I'm learning more on, and that's about,
uh, uh, dealing with stress and after-action
stress and all the rest.
I mean, it's, um, It seems to be an area of
science and psychology that is rapidly changing
rapidly growing and people are taking new
and unique approaches to helping people
work through that whole after action.
After where there's PTSD, post-traumatic
stress disorder.
Yeah.
I think they're actually trying to move away
from calling it a disorder, but, um, Uh,
or it's just anxiety or depression or whatever
else related to dealing with the after-action.
And that's something that you've had some
experience with.
Yeah,
well, personally, I didn't get to
fulfill my job of going on operations.
I'll have other experiences in my life
where I've had violent experiences, but I'm an
in around people that have been to war multiple
times and had, and also now I'm around police in
the security industry who have had very horrendous
experiences while on the, in the line of duty.
I've become a fascination of mine, of how
they deal with it.
And also I have a lot of sympathy for them doing
their job to protect us in our society.
Um, especially obviously the military guys and
girls, but also the police who I don't feel
get the credit of the military do because
they literally, they run operations every day.
They don't really have any downtime.
Um, and now I have someone close to me that
deals with PTSD as well.
And I've been looking at other avenues for
help, um, and therapy and all the normal
avenues of see good.
And I'm not a scientist, I'm not a psychologist
myself, but I do read and research a lot of things.
And in the past two years, I've gone down
some rabbit holes.
That's led me to psychedelic assisted
therapies, um, particularly for
veterans PTSD.
And I really delved into this subject.
I can't believe what I've found and I can't
believe that it's not accessible for people.
And I think it will be in coming years because
the studies and the science behind it is so
overwhelmingly positive.
Um, but I think we need to jumpstart that now
because suicide rates are through the roof and we
all have personal people that we know, especially
in my background as a lot of guys particular,
I say guys, because I know Ron Marines is all
men and stuff anyway, that are struggling.
And there's a lot of stigma around talking
about things and every person in the police
or in the military that I know have been
to combat and have traumatic experiences.
The recurring theme is that they don't get the
support that they need.
And I know that there's a lot of people were
annoyed with the military service and
stuff because of.
Chewed up and spat out.
And that is the reality for me.
What I've seen that is what happens
no longer useful.
So you're gone and the machine just
keeps rolling and you're just a waste
product out the side.
Um, and there's some organizations out
there helping and some support, but they
need something else.
And the whole psychedelic assisted therapy is
something that I've been reading about and
research and, and about to make a big step in
my life, uh, to move down to Costa Rica,
uh, where there's some actual centers, there's
iowaska therapy centers, and also psilocybin,
which is the main one that I'm interested in,
where veterans can travel down and bypass because
obviously there's legal parameters in Canada
and my home country and America, which are
slowly been challenged now in the FDA.
Looking at psilocybin is a medical, um,
medical substance, uh, for people, right.
But it's taken time and there's a
stigma around it.
And it's the public's perception, which is
blocking it in my mind.
I think it's, as soon as the public changed,
then the politicians will get hold of it
when they realize that people support it.
And then this could be an avenue that is
like literally like a magic pill, um,
for people that are.
Struggling.
And I've had other avenues of support.
This isn't the be-all and end-all, I'm
not saying it is.
I just feel like it should be an option to
people who are maybe on their last legs
have got nowhere to turn or they're alone,
and they don't want to talk to anybody else.
Then why, who who's to say that you can't
allow someone to take a substance in a,
like a medical setting with a therapist
they're not taking mushrooms and running
around the forest?
Not saying that
I, um, there's a fellow, his name will come
to me and he's got a podcast called diary of
a CEO, British fellow.
And he had a, uh, an individual, uh, who is,
uh, operating on the forefront of, uh, using
siliciden I guess, and other substances for
treating depression and anxiety and PTSD.
And this guy went down to Costa Rica as well.
And if I'm recalling it correctly, And he was
talking about, um, he was referencing and I've
never crossed, checked your cross reference
there, but referencing a lot of different, uh,
uh, scientific articles, Stephen, Stephen's
something Bartlett it'll come to me anyways.
Uh, I find it well, I find it
really interesting.
I mean, from the PTSD side, we had taught Hi-C
from veteran hunters who deals with veterans
with PTSD and, uh, uses hunting as a way
to be present and out in the, in the woods.
And, uh, he was, I learned a lot from
him talking back and forth about the people
he works with and the struggles that he's had
and, uh, how PTSD is something that is, um,
constantly changing.
I mean, I think the DSM four defined
it in one way.
DSM five has changed that and kind of changed
the term of trauma, what that actually means.
And, and they're starting to learn
that you can actually.
Pass on some of the, uh, the traits to your kids
apparently, and to your, to your family members,
because you either are experiencing it from your
directing experience.
You're dealing with it indirectly, let's say
like a, a 9 1, 1 operator or you're dealing with
it through, um, I forget there's a third way
that they mentioned, but essentially like your
kids coming back and seeing how you operate
and deal with things.
And yeah, so there's, there's a lot of
information out there.
Um, like I said, I haven't done, uh, my
own personal research on it, but the one thing
that always has struck me is the reluctance
for people to come out and talk about it.
And the stigma that's associated with, um,
looking at alternative medicine or alternative.
Ways to deal with with anything, right.
I mean, let's not get started about some of
the other things that are going on in the
world at the moment, but, um, I, I guess
traditionally they've had talk therapy, right.
And they just try and rewire the brain and
generate new neural pathways through, uh,
uh, helping a person experience an event
or, uh, relate to an event differently.
Or they've got, uh, anti-psychotics or
antidepressants and, uh, the selective
solar serotonin re-uptake inhibitors,
the SSRI or SNRI or whatever they have.
And that's just where everyone's been looking.
And, uh, when you started talking a bit
about the, like, let's say psilocybin for the
treatment of depression or PTSD or anxiety,
obviously I've heard about this before,
but I started, I just started at scratch the
tip of the iceberg.
There's a lot of.
Information out there, but it seems like people
have been looking at this for a very long time.
How come, how come?
We're not at a point here where people are
willing to kind of take that next step.
Everything looks experimental.
Yeah.
It's because of the war on drugs, back in
the day in the sixties, you know, they were all
categorized as the same, a class sort of thing.
And there was a lot of, there's a
campaign against it.
And that goes back to the war in Vietnam and all
the hippies basically.
Um, but since that time that is affected our
perception of it over my perception, what I
learned in school, I'm sure what you learn
in school and stuff.
Only recently in the two thousands that
studies have been allowed to happen
again, and it's really grown some momentum.
Um, and I can't cite the studies
cause I don't have a good enough memory.
Uh, but the things that I've read and seen for
one instance, uh, which Jordan Peterson talks
about, uh, after one psilocybin session, um,
for smokers, 80% of the people that were smoking
actually quit smoking.
And then three months down the line had still
not had a cigarette since that session.
And it isn't just taking mushrooms.
It's like integration, uh, and talking
about afterwards.
Um, and the, the results from that is
astounding really.
Um, and for similar things like that,
I've read about.
I actually have found that psychologists and
psychiatrists are quite welcoming of this new
age of the psychedelics coming in because
they've been, their hands have been tied.
They haven't had the tools or the
medicines really.
They they're given all these drugs, that
kind of numb symptoms.
Um, but psilocybin and other substances are
used in the right way can actually cure the source
of the pain, um, in a way, which is incredible.
That's what we need right now.
And not just for PTSD, but was a higher number
of depressed people around the world.
Lots of other issues, uh, even addiction
and maybe not.
So the cyber, but other substances, I Boca teen,
I think I'm saying that right, but maybe not,
um, is, is very powerful in Q1 addiction of
opioids, for instance.
So I think this is something that is
going to be exploding over the next few
years, but I think we need to look at it.
And I'm also in contact with an organization
called heroic hearts, where they're bypassing
the legal requirements of, uh, the United
States and England and send in veterans.
It's a charity to a, there's a center in Costa
Rica and a few round that region of south America,
uh, to have experiences, uh, and, and deal with
their traumas in this way and having a lot
of positive results.
Um, and it's a question that I don't see the
argument because the people that are going
are already in pain and they've already
most of the time.
Going through every avenue available
to them and they're looking for help.
And if some of those, if five out of 10 of those
come back and have a positive outlook on it.
And I can tell you it's more than five
from my experience of speaking to people and
reading the studies.
There's, there's no downside to that.
In my opinion,
I, you know, what I've always found interesting
is personal find themselves in a situation
where they've got some, some mental health
problems and, and, uh, mental health has always
had this social stigma.
Can't talk about it.
You're weak.
If you have mental health problems or whatever
it is, and it be a sort of hidden away.
I like the fact that it's being talked about more.
I mean, with COVID, I'm, there's lots of people
that are struggling with trying to keep a
business going or have social connections or,
um, mental health is, is being talked about,
I think anyways, on, on a greater scale,
But you, you look at the, um, you take a
look at the approach to the mental health.
And the one thing that has kind of stuck out
in our conversations is, uh, you can, you
can do talk therapy and that's good, bad.
It can provide people with framework and
tools to work with.
And, but you gotta have somebody who's matched
up to your personality and mean if you've got
somebody who's an ex military and they're
talking to with a talk therapist who's
does not have the same way, was completely
unable to relate.
It's not going to have as much value, um,
there's medications, but these medications
seem to be something that are an ongoing.
Prescription.
And when that will change as your body
chemistry changes, because everyone's body
chemistry is different and they're kind of like
just putting a little bit of chemicals in the water
to see what color it turns and what let's try
a little bit of this one.
Let's try a little bit of that one and we'll
see how long it lasts for until we have to kind
of change it up again.
But from the little bit I've been looking
at, and that you've been talking about,
um, these treatments seem to be more
focused on single use.
Like I've seen, they've got this dosing thing,
but it's also like single event one and done, which
sounds like a magic pill.
And it sounds phenomenal.
Yeah.
Um, but I think that's probably the most
interesting aspect out of all of this.
If you can find something where you don't have to
have an ongoing thing to inhibit you, uh,
re-uptake inhibitors or whatever it is, I
would guess that number one, a person would
want to take a look at what their, their
actual situation is.
Cause if you're, um, working in a tiny
little cubicle every day underneath fluorescent
lights for long hours and going home and
you have no social connections, so no social
network, and you're doing that on a regular
basis, you can medicate that person until the
end of the time, but you're just, you're
just putting band-aids on a problem, right?
Yeah.
So I would think a person would really want to try
and drill down and assess what their situation
is so they can change it, lead a more healthy
lifestyle, more exercise, better diet and better
social connections.
Um, but from what you've been seeing, it sounds
like from your research anyways, these, uh,
uh, these events, these siliciden events, or
what did you call it?
A guided
citizen?
Um, like psychedelic assisted therapy, that's
it?
Yeah.
These, these are more.
Uh, individual thing, not like some
ongoing.
Yeah.
So it's a one session of the psilocybin
with the iOS.
Can you do a few sessions, but you don't
just rive and then do it.
It's.
A buildup of talking about it, learning
about the substance and the culture of
it as well, having the session, and then
speaking with a therapist afterwards, see, do
have this talk therapy after which, which is
extremely beneficial if you're going to do it.
And that's just set aside, but in like a, a
medical setting for it to happen inside Canada,
which there are clinical trials Charles happened
in and Vancouver UBC a instrument when this
is quite interesting, why I've ended up in
this environment and connected with these
people around here.
And also I've invested in the industry
as well, because I want to support it.
There's quite a boom, the Shroom
boom for investment.
And a lot of those companies are
based in banks.
Okay.
So quite forward thinking in this country, I think
Canada could make that step first and I hope
they do because they do need something to
deal with a lot of the problems, mental health
issues that we have in the society here.
Um, but yeah, the, the idea of it being
a one session thing and not ongoing is
kind of unbelievable.
And if you don't believe what I'm saying, I
do urge you to, um, research and there's
one book that I've read, um, called, uh, how
to change your mind.
Um, let me just think, Michael Poland is the
author and he's a well establish establish also
has been on the Joe Rogan experience and things.
Um, and he was very much against psychedelics.
And then he decided to embark on this
journey where he, uh, he took the substances,
researched a lot, and then he wrote a book
about it and he changed his perception of it.
And he challenges people.
Just think of it as a, as a new medicine basically.
And it isn't going to affect the
everyday person.
No one's coming to your house is saying,
you need to try this magic mushroom.
You know, we're talking about a medicine for
people that need the help and it's not something
that's new for me.
It feels very natural that the fact that they
grow up on the fields, like not far from here,
you know, mushroom with the red one with the
close one.
We've got it in my kid's
school.
Yeah.
But that, isn't one that you should use.
That's a bad one.
That's not psilocybin.
It's a different,
I might find some bullets bullet, how
he's get in trouble.
Bullets, bullets.
You might sign some bullets near that.
If you're looking for like the king bullet
or anything else, look for the enemy
to have a scarier.
Yeah.
I wouldn't advise ever picking mushrooms
as a bad thing to do, but, um, yeah.
That these things are not like a synthetic
material that's made by pharmaceutical companies.
These things grow all over the world and
they've been used by cultures in different
various parts of the world for many years.
Um, as a medicine, uh, I think we
should look at that.
I think it's something, it says something.
And I'll tell you now I've personally used, sat
aside psilocybin because I don't want to advocate
for something that I don't have experience on.
Um, so I've, I've done two sessions personally.
Um, and what's it like, uh, it wasn't
a mind blowing.
I wasn't seeing like little creatures and
things like that.
Uh, it was done in my house, in it,
like everything quiet and in the darkness.
Um, take a dose and then have a sitter
outside who would assist me if I needed it.
Um, so
you're completely alone as you're
going through this.
Process.
So you'd take it and then you'd lie down
and be in darkness.
Preferably, and for me, what I got out of
it was that basically it grounded me and
showed me that I need to focus on the important
things in my life and not keep looking ahead
to the next thing.
Cause that's something that I've had in me
from a young age, always focusing on the next
goal, the next goal.
And I kind of can't do that now that I have
a daughter, like her reality is waking up
every day and I create that because we're in
the same house, you know, if I'm stressed about
work or finances that affects her and this is
her life and it, it just made me check myself and
think, right, this is a bit of a reset here.
I need to focus on being about husband of our
father, um, balance my life, a bit more, um,
um, healthy person.
Anyway, I, I will admit, um, but also.
Steered me towards going out in nature.
We go on a lot more hikes because of it.
Really?
Yeah.
It was a strange experience.
And I wouldn't say like, go and do
it, everyone do it.
I just did it because I w I don't want to
be advocating for something that turns
out to be a ludicrous thing dangerous.
Um, and if it does become a normalized
thing in society, then it wouldn't be taken it
on your own and be in a center retreat, or like
a medical setting where you have professionals
to guide you.
Um, but for me, I think it is.
It's something to be looked at and not even
on your spiritual side, a lot of the people that
are surrounded in this area, um, particularly
when I go to Costa Rica, I know that
they're cause they're quite, um, hippy-ish
yeah, that's it.
It's taking their crystals and washing
them and waterfalls on a full moon.
That sort of thing.
These people are a bit strange to me, but know
that they may, I may have something to learn from
these people, especially in the healing aspect.
Cause they seem quite at peace with their life
and at one with nature.
And I think that's something that we do need
as a society as well.
Um, but I'm experimenting in terms of, I want
to try and advocate because I think the
public perception is the one, the big hurdle.
And because I have a, a tick-tock following
and stuff like that, I'm going to try and do some
work with heroic hearts.
Also I have my own Tik TOK that I've just
started called do the recce, um, recognizance.
Highlight studies highlight information
that comes out just the people couldn't look
at it and read and just learn a bit more and
have a bit of an open mind about the subjects
because yeah, I think we're going in that
direction for a mental health side of things.
I don't think there should be too much
pushback if it's shown to help.
From my opinion, it has been shown to
help a lot.
Interesting.
Well, that spirituality side I've read that some
people will have that siliciden experience.
And up to a year later still be feeling
the benefits of, I guess, people call
it or refer to it as sort of a profound,
spiritual experience.
And I guess spirituality is going to be
something different for everybody, right?
Whether it's some, some person in the sky or,
or some connection with nature or connection
with others or what, whatever it is.
But that spirituality feeling seems to
be pretty heavily intertwined with the
whole siliciden thing.
Yeah.
And for me, I don't know if I got this spiritual
side of things come out, but I just had a,
uh, like a grounding moment where I was.
Realize that I'm the, like, I actually feel
like a tribesmen is what came to mind
for me that I am a protector of my family.
I'm a, like an alpha male and don't hide from that.
Just that is who I am.
That's what I've grown up being like, acknowledged
that that is what my role in this family is.
I'm the protector here.
Um, and also realize what's important.
And what is important is my family like inside
these walls, in my home, inside these walls of
my mind as well is, uh, things that I need
to address and deal with rather than just
looking at in the future.
If I get this, uh, achievement, then
I'll be successful.
I'll be happy once I get there.
And I don't do meditation or anything like that,
but these spiritual people were talking
about meditation.
I would like to go down that avenue, but I
haven't experienced that.
Yeah.
Interesting.
And that, that statement, I will be happy
when I'll be happy.
When I get there, when I achieved
this, I'll be happy.
And that's, that's something that I think
a lot of people can really benefit from.
Uh, and, and I think, I think there's a lot to
be said for meditation as well, like you're
saying, but how do you, uh, take a look at what
you currently have and be happy for what you
currently do have, right.
And then there's going to be people in
situations where yes, there's going to be
things in their life.
They should be looking at making a positive
change towards which will probably
ultimately lead to more happiness from them.
But so often I find people are spending
their time comparing themselves to what
their definition or ideal of what happiness
should be and completely missing the plot that.
What you're experiencing in that moment is in
fact what most people should strive towards.
Yeah.
I don't know if, yeah, I agree.
And I'm trying to take into account that the
older generation they're giving me advice at
work and things, and there's a lot of people
that are divorced in my line of work, who
have spent their time working and missed out
on spending time, their children and their
wife they've neglected attention to their wife
or, or, or caring for them, uh, grown apart.
And I'm trying to look at that and put that into
my own life and realize what is important.
Uh, so yeah, I'm going to go to Costa Rica.
I'm going to try and work as a fixer
in the industry.
We call it a fixer.
So if people were interested in, in, if
they're on their last legs, that they, they
have nowhere to turn, then I'm going to have
a site where you can speak to me and I'll try
and organize and give you just information
about the centers and what happens.
And I'm just going to try and expand my knowledge.
Um, most down there, make connections and try and
help in any way I can.
And I've been in contact with, uh, Jesse gold.
Who's the, the CEO of the, um, who are at
carts, which is quite, they had a New York
times article written a couple of years back.
And they're like the leader for veterans.
And there's one in the UK as well, who
are at carts UK.
So we kind of try and liaise with them and help
them out as well, because they're doing great
work.
Very cool.
We'll get some of those links.
We'll put them on here as well.
So anybody who wants to learn more
can look into it.
I find it fascinating.
I find it very interesting.
I've talked to other people that have been
through, uh, different modalities for dealing
with their anxiety, depression, or PTSD.
And, um, some people are ardently against any sort
of narcotics based on simply the social stigma.
And I know some people have had family histories
of, um, had drug or alcohol abuse and they
just, they have that ingrained in their
mind has said they won't even take doctor
prescribed medications.
But, um, I guess, you know, the first step in
all of these things is just sort of normalizing
the conversation.
And so.
Everyone being different in different
body chemistries and different mental
makeups and cognitive and resiliencies
can start choosing from the plethora of
different options that are available there.
Cause maybe suicide.
One's great for one and not for another maybe
talk scrape for somebody and not somebody else.
I definitely
need a doctor or a specialist to
decide these things and siphon out the.
Would benefit from it or not.
And I'm not that person to do that.
I'm just trying to push the, uh, th
the conversation, you know, and bring
it to the forefront of people's minds.
And I think because I was in the special forces,
there's this, I think where the people that are
at first in, you know, where these are, the guys
that are jumping out of airplanes, jumping out
of Hilos into the, into the water, doing all
this dangerous stuff.
And then we should be making this leap as
well, because we're the leaders of the military.
Um, people look up to us and if there is weight
behind what I'm saying, if you don't believe
there is then have a look yourself, do the recce.
If we can make this change and help
our brothers, then let's do it now.
That's my
perspective.
That's fantastic.
Sunny.
Is there anything else that we should
be talking about?
Uh, I don't know.
I think, I think we've covered quite a good
range of things we
did.
Yeah.
Do the you, I like it.
Yeah.
Thank you very much for coming back on
its silver podcast.
I always enjoy speaking
with you.
It's been a pleasure.
Thanks very much.