Hello, I'm Jessica Samuels. Welcome to A Way Forward presented by Beam Credit Union. I'd like to acknowledge this podcast takes place on the ancestral traditional and unceded lands of the Okanagan Silic people. Relationship, money and mental health. That is the topic for today's episode.

Joining CMHA Kelowna CEO Mike Gullick and I is Katie Bransfield. She's the director of consumer banking for Beam Credit Union. She's been at this a long time. And she's got some very good practical advice on how to navigate these difficult conversations if they come up in your relationship, but also hopefully, how you can prevent them in the first place. Bean Credit Union is proud to sponsor today's episode.

With deep roots in BC and a commitment to your financial journey, Bean believes wellness, mental and financial starts with support you can count on. Katie, thank you so much for being here. Let's start off right off the top. What is financial compatibility in a relationship? And why is it so important?

Well, compatibility is less about having the same income and more about having a similar approach to money. It's the alignment of values, habits and expectations around spending, saving debt, long term goals. It means you understand how each other thinks about money and can make decisions better without constant conflict or confusion. How important it

is? Yeah, it sounds like it's going to be very important.

Yeah, it's extremely important. Far more than people like to admit. Many is one of the money is one of the top stressors in relationships, not because couples don't love each other, but because they often have unspoken or mismatched expectations. So when partners are financially compatible, everything from day to day spending to big life decisions like buying a home, having kids is just a little less stressful. Right.

And you

were to you went through that. And that's such a great response. Through that, you know, you kind of touched along a few things. And I was just envisioning possible scenarios in there, right? Even even like the value you said that people place on money, a lot of money to me may not be a lot of money to somebody else.

Those things that we come into the relationship with baggage from our well, I shouldn't say baggage, but just learnings from our childhood, or maybe past relationships, or all of those things. So I can imagine that these things are very important, just like you said. So when we're navigating these conversations. So the first is idea that recognizing that these conversations are important. How do we manage those conversations?

What are some of the key things to go over and what are some of the things that we should make sure that we talk about?

Yeah, the biggest key to talking about money with a partner is creating a really safe space that feels safe, judgment free and intentional. Most people carry, like you said, emotions, habits and even a little shame around money. So the how matters just as much as the what. Talking about money, choosing a calm moment, start with curiosity, be transparent about income and debt. The must have topics, I would say, are spending habits, saving priorities and debt lifestyle expectations and how you'll share those costs.

You don't have to have the identical money styles, just open communication and a shared game plan.

Right. So even if person one has a little bit of a different money style, person two or B or whatever you want to say is is is has a their own set of kind of ideas around as long as you can come together someplace in the middle and agree to move forward. You know, something else that you said off the top was interesting. It's not like you have to make the same amount of money. That's not what compatibility.

It's that middle part, right?

It's finding that common ground. Yeah, right.

Okay. Now you mentioned debt in there, and being transparent and creating a safe space. So it's a two way street when we're talking about debt. If, if I'm entering a relationship with a large amount of debt, or if somebody or if your partner, you you recognize that they have a lot of debt, first of all, they shared that with you. What kind of approach should we take?

And how do you navigate that? Because that can really show disparity in how each of you approaches money. So give us some

tips about that. Well, itself isn't a red flag. It's how the person handles the debt that matters. Someone having debt isn't an automatic deal breaker. What would be concerning is if they're hiding it or there's secrecy around it or there isn't a plan to manage it.

Plenty of responsible people have debt. The key is to transparency and the realistic repayment plan. Debt doesn't predict the success of a relationship, but secrecy around debt does add to the stress in a relationship.

Right. And sometimes this is a quote from Mike that he often says, it's not necessarily what the thing is. So it's not necessarily the debt. May be it is like what it does the behavior around it.

Yeah, absolutely.

And preparing yourself. So let's let's stop putting it putting it to the other person. Let's say I'm someone with a large amount of debt. Mean, you know, we've we talked about shame and stigma when it comes to mental health as well. How do I have that conversation with my partner to say, okay, let's not frame the debt, whether it's good or bad or anything like that to just say like, this is I have this debt, I'm going to enter this relationship with you with how can we navigate this?

Yeah, Again, it's about that transparency and setting up the plan. And do you agree on the plan? Setting the budget, whatever that might be around that. And again, checking in all the time, whether that's ten minutes once a month as a couple to sit down, talk about your finances. It really does put everything out on the table and just allows you to discuss through any challenges you're having.

And so then we did talk about income disparity. Can you tell me or give us some advice on how to navigate income disparity? Because that can also be a difficult situation, debt aside and spending aside, it could, it could maybe feel like you're not on even ground when you're when you're going into a relationship like that. So some advice on how to navigate that?

Yeah, I think again, having those, you know, open conversations, it's not necessarily what you're bringing into the relationship. So together, you are making a plan. It's really about those values and alignment on what is important to you as a couple. As long as you've got that alignment, it shouldn't really matter too much on who's bringing in more or less. You're in it together.

Right, right. And I'm going to say it because I know that you're being very gracious and you won't. But I would imagine at some point, seeking support, not necessarily help, but support from financial institutions or financial informed financial folks to maybe help navigate that. I can imagine that can be a way that folks can kind of navigate these conversations.

Sure. People don't instinctively want institution to get that advice, but that's exactly what they're there for. And they're going to listen to what's going on with you. And they're probably going to be able to give you some advice that maybe you hadn't thought of. Because we do see all different kinds of situations and so can really add that perspective that conversation that you're having.

Right. I'm going to switch it over to Mike now. Just kind of building off what Katie said, oftentimes in mental health, what we talk about, or whether it's you know, navigating the health care system, we talk about getting the help you need. And sometimes the help you need is an expert. And so financial help, expert or institution would be part of that.

When we're talking about that, let's just go back a little bit. The navigation of the cost of living, the mental health toll on folks right now. We have talked about that before on this podcast. It's significant.

Absolutely, it's significant. When we look at some of the data in Canada, ultimately, forty one percent of people highlight money as the biggest stressor in their life, and that's up from thirty eight percent around the pandemic. Forty nine percent of people lose sleep over the fact that they're running into financial challenges and problems and issues. So it's definitely taking its toll. To your point around navigating the system, another interesting stat that I did find is, as far as the research, in terms of someone's outlook, their optimism around their financial future is greater when they access someone, a financial professional.

And so in getting help specifically on the financial side, it makes good sense to do that.

And so much of shame and stigma would be involved in that. First of all, have to make sure that, well, I don't know. You'd have to make sure, but I feel like that first part of that conversation that Katie was mentioning of having that transparency with your partner first, having that safe space, approaching it as a team and then going to another individual to help you move through. I mean, those are some difficult steps for folks to take.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, some of the other data show that when it comes to shame and stigma, it's significant around the issue of money. It's about fifty six percent of Canadians struggle with that. And again, when you talk about what are some of the ways forward, ultimately talking about it is one of those ways forward. Again, you know, starting with your partner, that really nonjudgmental listening and being able to speak about it, and then being able to go to a professional is one of the things that can help, you know, manage finances and hopefully help the relationship to be stronger.

That's such a great point that you talk about, you know, bringing it forward, because even the way that we're framing this is that, you know, sometimes financial situations are due to things that are beyond our control. And I do think that some individuals do have a fair amount of shame associated with that. And when we're talking about these days and ages and times right now, I mean, folks are struggling financially, and also struggling with their mental health. So I think that that inward, look to yourself to say that, you know, don't put that shame on yourself and don't carry the mental health burden. We've talked about the general things of how to manage your mental health.

What are those general mental health things, Mike, that can be applicable even in these situations when we're talking about financial stress?

I mean, certainly is to be aware of how you're feeling, how that stress manifests itself physically, and if there's any significant change or difference in mood, appetite, sleep, all those sorts of things. Financial stress can ultimately cause anxiety and depression. So to be aware of that is important because in those cases that could indicate there's a need for further help through counseling. But in terms of taking care of yourself, in terms of managing yourself in the face of those challenges, It's things like exercise, it's things like getting a good night's sleep, not isolating, socializing. And as challenging as it can be, finding someone safe to talk about it because the ability to have that conversation and the connection with stress reduction is proven time and again.

So those are all very important ways to try and manage yourself in the face of what can be a really challenging and difficult situation.

Right. Okay. Thank you both. Katie, just before we wrap up, let's just recap what we are encouraging people to do. Have the conversations, be open and honest and transparent with your partner.

Also try to do the same with yourself. And if you need to seek outside advice from a financial institution or financial counseling or counseling. Is basically what you're saying?

Absolutely. And get on the same page, be a team. Go together forward.

Yes. It's like be a team, right? Don't say go together. Okay. Thank you so much.

You know, starting those conversations really is the key to managing financial stress and your mental health. So we appreciate Katie's advice. And of course, our CMHA Kelowna CEO, Mike Golic, has advice with that as well. If you have questions about this or some of the resources that are out there through CMHA Kelowna or other institutions, you can always go to the A Way Forward podcast page on cmhacolona.org. You can always email us at awayforward@cmhacolona.org.

Until then, please do take good care. This episode is supported by Beam Credit Union. With deep roots in BC and a commitment to your financial journey, Beam proudly backs mental health conversations that help build stronger, healthier communities.