Speaker 1 00:13 - 00:40 Well, welcome today to Teamwork, A Better Way Podcast, which is the podcast for those who are here to really help their teams perform at a higher level, more than strategy, more than systems. And I am apologizing for those of you who are Christian Napier fans. My longtime amazing friend and co-host Christian Napier is Not feeling well today. I got a text from him. Speaker 1 00:40 - 01:03 And so please, please give him your thoughts and hopefully we'll see him again very, very soon. And I know many of you are disappointed because he is the highlight of what we do. What a great co-host I have and missed him. And today, We have an incredible guest that I am going to introduce to you. Speaker 1 01:03 - 01:35 Today our topic is really about how to lead exponentially, building leaders beyond the leader, and so, so, so important. But in today's episode, Reid Neifeller, CEO, entrepreneur, and author of Lead Exponentially, Shares why team performance often stalls. And when leadership is concentrated in one person, that's going to happen. Reed breaks down how great leaders identify future leaders. Speaker 1 01:35 - 01:49 I am so excited to learn about that. And how to distinguish high performers from true leadership potential. And then develop others before growth depends on them. If you're interested, I am. Speaker 1 01:49 - 02:10 I mean, that is super, super important. So through powerful questions and a purpose-driven approach, He reveals how building leaders within your team creates stronger culture, greater ownership, and sustainable performance. So I am going to pull Reid up, but I have some more to talk about him. He's got so many bona fides here. Speaker 1 02:10 - 02:13 Reid, welcome. Hold on. I got to talk more. He's a CEO. Speaker 1 02:13 - 02:38 He's an entrepreneur. He's author of Lead Exponentially and Transform Through Purpose. He is the founder of Signal, a fast-growing security services franchisor, as well as FilterGo and Framebrand, where he's helped scale multiple businesses and develop leaders at every level. You are passionate, Reid, about building teams that don't rely on one leader. Speaker 1 02:38 - 03:02 because you're doing that yourself, but develop leadership from within. His framework focuses on aligning purpose, identifying leadership potential, and helping individuals grow into that role, creating lasting impact. So, so much more grounded in faith, grounded in intention. I'm so excited for your perspective on how to really, to grow leaders. Speaker 1 03:02 - 03:08 Welcome Reed, so glad to have you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And Spencer, it's great to kind of walk through that. Speaker 1 03:08 - 03:19 And of course, this is really for your audiences. I always tell the audience, it's really for the people that they lead. That's what this content is for. Because if a leader becomes better, their teams are better. Speaker 1 03:20 - 03:31 And the people that benefit the most are the teams, because that leader is better. And so the audience of your audience is the people that we're focused on today. So I'm excited to help give them some nuggets they can apply. Yes, yes. Speaker 1 03:31 - 04:06 I was just talking to nine CEOs in San Diego yesterday, and then the day before that, senior leadership of some of the same organizations. And Reed, this is a topic that everyone everyone is interested in and they all are struggling. There was one company CEO that had started as a company from zero in 2017 and has grown to 400 million by this year, 2026. And so the leadership development challenges are just crazy. Speaker 1 04:06 - 04:18 So why do so many teams struggle to scale in your opinion? What is the challenge? Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, even before you talk about the team, I think we have to look at the culture in mass. Right. Speaker 1 04:18 - 04:39 I think, you know, even as we progressively see the imagery, I mean, if you go back to initiatives in America. You really looked at that as, you know, let's use Rosie the Riveter as an example or, you know, those things. It was really team oriented. Everybody, you know, Rosie Riveter was iconic for saying, hey, drop what you're doing and support the mission to win the war. Speaker 1 04:40 - 04:49 Right. And then we see kind of the modern day language, which is like every man for themselves. Right. And so I think you see culturally, it's like if you're not building your career, no one will help you. Speaker 1 04:49 - 04:55 Right. And we're not here collectively. So I think culturally we see that it's difficult. And so we're swimming upstream for that. Speaker 1 04:55 - 05:17 And then I think if you look culturally to organizations, you see that leadership decisions are benefiting the highest level of leadership, whether that's politically or organizationally, and that's what's communicated, right? If you look at the narrative that's communicated in mass. So one, it's the individual decision. Two, it's the collective communication of that. Speaker 1 05:18 - 05:35 However, underlying all of that is there are great teams that work well together. We highlight individual success because we can identify one. I think as a leader, you're swimming upstream with that. Secondarily then, I think the other challenge that leaders are having that we want to address this problem is the timelines you're put to. Speaker 1 05:35 - 05:50 If you look at a business that's growing, you're put on quarterly timelines. One, if we're just a public shareholder of a particular business, we're going to say, where's my stock today? We don't want to really look at it five years from now or 10 years from now. We want to know where it's at today. Speaker 1 05:51 - 06:06 And so those leaders are under heavy pressure to make a short-term decision. And development is not quick. You're not developing a leader overnight. It takes multiple steps, multiple trainings, multiple processes, success and failure. Speaker 1 06:07 - 06:21 You have to give them opportunity to fail and go forward. And so I think those are the inherent challenges that are leading to challenge leaders to the point why they're struggling with it. So then the next question is, what do we do with that? Well, okay, what do we do with that? Speaker 1 06:21 - 06:37 So many challenges, and I want to highlight one of the things you said. Well, two things. You're right. I think it seems like in the media, people are saying, well, why should I give my effort to a leader that they're going to benefit and I'm not. Speaker 1 06:38 - 06:59 Everybody's in it for themselves or I've got to get mine. Let's punish those that are taking risks and being successful. That undermines that esprit de corps, that ability to fight together as a team. We know we can do so much more together than we can individually. Speaker 1 06:59 - 07:29 What I see is exactly what you're saying. You mentioned it as quarterly reports, the shareholders. There is such an emphasis on productivity that we stop being effective, right? In other words, we're so interested in going fast, getting things done for the short term, for that quick stock boost, for that quick return on investment that we're not creating long-term wealth that could be so much greater if we were to create that proper foundation. Speaker 1 07:30 - 07:37 And so I am 100% with you. So what do we do? How do we, where do we go? Yeah. Speaker 1 07:37 - 08:01 And I think, you know, together, you know, we can accomplish more for sure. And so I think that's where the first thing is, is to orient as a leader, the North star, what's the, the collective goal and objective and never stop communicating that. So it's really giving the organizational vision and the organizational vision isn't a quarterly number. So if I look at my organization, my security organization, Signal, it's to create peace of mind. Speaker 1 08:01 - 08:22 That's the driving factor. We want the clients that we're serving to say, because Signal, the security franchisor is there, and all of their franchisees are there, we know that our property has a higher likelihood of safety. And that's what we want them to feel and appeal while they're there. And then if we do a great job, actually, they will be willing to pay us more. Speaker 1 08:22 - 08:39 They'll be willing to get us more opportunities and clients. But if we're just merely saying, OK, they're only paying me this much per hour, so I'm only going to deliver this level of service so I can maximize my profit. My orientation is around making money, not serving the client. And what happens then is I lose the client. Speaker 1 08:39 - 08:50 Right. And I lose the profit margin that I otherwise would have put in there. And so I think as a leader, the first thing you should do lead exponentially is clarify the vision and make sure it's unifying. Right. Speaker 1 08:50 - 09:03 Not dividing. It is not about a particular department or a person. It is about an organization and they drive forward. And so you clarify the vision and you put that at the paramount, right above any leader at any level, myself included. Speaker 1 09:03 - 09:09 Right. Then the second thing is we show them how that can be accomplished. Right. So I think the first step is to clarify vision. Speaker 1 09:11 - 09:21 So once you've done that, I mean, you, I mean, your vision was so simple. I mean, say it again. It is to create peace of mind, to provide peace of mind, to pursue passion life. That's our clear vision. Speaker 1 09:21 - 09:32 And I think it's important to say, how did I arrive at that? Because many organizations are thinking, how should I arrive at that? And I really took enduring organizations. And I looked back and I said, they were not delivering a particular product or service. Speaker 1 09:32 - 09:37 They were delivering a state of mind. Right. Coca-Cola owns happiness. Right. Speaker 1 09:38 - 09:45 Harley Davidson owns freedom. Disney owns fun. Right. I mean, Mickey Mouse is not all that relevant anymore, but fun still is. Speaker 1 09:45 - 10:06 And so they venture into all these other things because they're really owning that state of mind. And so if you're an organization and you're not delivering a state of mind and you're delivering something too practical and tangible, That will change and evolve over time, right? I mean, historically, and you won't build an enduring organization. So make sure your vision is a form or state of mind, in our case, peace of mind. Speaker 1 10:07 - 10:24 Well, and what you just said is that helps fight against the commoditization of the service that you're providing. Right. You're not just comparing services. You're creating a loyalty to that brand, to that peace of mind, that state of mind that you're creating. Speaker 1 10:24 - 10:31 I love that. It seems so simple. But yeah, that's just the first step, right? Yeah, that's the first step. Speaker 1 10:32 - 10:55 And I think its first step is understanding it and orienting to that, right? Because think of how, you know, Disney, just using them as an example, because they're a global brand we're aware of, they own fun and look at how much of the wallet share has gone to paying for fun. But if you're paying for a toy, if you're selling a toy, or you're selling a cartoon, or you're selling a Disney Mickey Mouse ears, you're only going to pay so much. It's commoditized. Speaker 1 10:55 - 11:11 And so we're going to look at that state of mind or fund. And so once you clarify that for your particular business, what state of mind are you addressing? Then you have that vision, and then you show them how, right? And then ultimately, the next step is, after you have that vision, is developing a strategic plan, right? Speaker 1 11:11 - 11:28 Where is this subdivided, right? And so, you know, it's been said, and we'll just continue with the Disney analogy, as he was flying over the swamplands in Florida, Right. He could already see in his own mind's eye that vision where there would be snow cones as you get off your roller coaster. Right. Speaker 1 11:28 - 11:38 Many of the roller coasters are still there and still the food is there. And he's really mapping this in his mind's eye. That was a strategic plan. And a part of the story I love about Walt Disney was it was comprehensive. Speaker 1 11:38 - 11:48 Right. He's thinking, OK, I need good ride designers. I need good characterization, et cetera. But he also had one of his key lieutenants was someone that had worked on the Panama Canal. Speaker 1 11:49 - 12:04 And you're like, well, why would you need someone that worked on the Panama canal? Because he knew what it would also derail him. And that was mosquitoes. How many of us would go walk around the park in Disney world and, and, uh, get stung by or bit by mosquitoes every day and every hour. Speaker 1 12:04 - 12:25 And I think about that. And so I have, I have been to the Everglades national park, which is in the South of Florida. I thought I was going to die. Yeah, I, I, we, so we got to the park headquarters and it, it was closed and we like, we have got to get some spray repellent. Speaker 1 12:25 - 12:45 We had no idea that we were going to need our own personal mosquito net. And, uh, so luckily there was a ranger there that, that was able to, uh, break us in and get us some, uh, uh, Some mosquito repellent, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to go on our boat ride or anything. It was just a, it was a mess. So that's that, you know, of course that's interesting. Speaker 1 12:45 - 12:59 There's actually the whole Reedy Creek, uh, development, uh, there it's their own city. They, they run their own city there at Disney world for all the services that they need to have. Uh, it's just an amazing operation. And that was part of the strategic plan. Speaker 1 12:59 - 13:07 Major strategy. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So what's that? If you're a leader, that's the next step. Speaker 1 13:07 - 13:16 Take that vision and make it a tangible next step. A lot of things, we only look at success, not the things that will derail our success. That's part of the strategic plan. Then you subdivide responsibilities. Speaker 1 13:16 - 13:38 Even in the acquisition of the land, to follow that same analogy that can apply to every business, and I've certainly applied it to mine, is he bought additional land, and then he put water, moving water to mitigate and made them beautiful features. Back to that same strategic plan, he bought more land, Walt Disney did put water features in each one with moving water so that the mosquitoes wouldn't be there. So you don't need that repellent. Right. Speaker 1 13:38 - 13:51 And so just imagine how forward thinking that was. We're trying to eradicate chemicals from our lives. And he already had thought ahead, did it in a natural way. And to me, that is a visionary developing a strategic plan, then subdividing responsibilities. Speaker 1 13:51 - 14:05 He didn't cancel the rides. Right. That's one department driving the direction of the vision. He didn't only build rides and then have spray and go commoditize it and try to make money off of mosquito nets and spray. Speaker 1 14:05 - 14:26 He holistically had that team working together, which leads to the third step once we're there. So the first is establish a vision as a leader and directed towards a state of mind. The second is develop a comprehensive state strategic plan and subdivide responsibilities to different parties to make sure you get the best in class in each of those that can work collectively together. And then we can jump to the third step if you're ready. Speaker 1 14:27 - 14:49 Well, I, I, I'm, I'm absolutely ready, but I don't want to, I don't want to go too fast here because there's just, I mean, we're, we're, we're getting some great, great, great content, but I want to know, let's, before we get to step three, how did you, how did you discover this? I mean, you're in businesses that seem to be highly commoditized. Mm-hmm. Speaker 1 14:50 - 15:05 So how did you figure this out? Was it pain and suffering? How do I separate myself from the pack? What was the impetus for you to figure out what your secret sauce was going to be? Speaker 1 15:06 - 15:15 Yeah, I think a lot of people try to improve on what exists. Right. What do I mean by that? And I'll give another analogy that is applicable here as well. Speaker 1 15:16 - 15:32 You know, McDonald's is a global provider of burgers. Right. And they were not the best franchise or in fact, I mean, A&W was your first burger franchisor and they did the drive in. And so then, just as what they did is like, what would be a better customer experience? Speaker 1 15:33 - 15:46 A drive-through. You don't have to, you know, you have a 20 minute, you go, they get roller skates to get out there, and then they go order the food, and then they come back and bring it back and forth, right? Instead of they do a drive-through, they got that down to 90 seconds. And so how did I discover this? Speaker 1 15:46 - 16:08 I mapped an ideal customer experience, just like McDonald's did, just like Walt Disney did. And I said, okay, what would be an ideal customer experience for a franchisee? for a client of our franchisee and for the employee of our franchisee. And so then as you see all three of those intertwine, it gives you a very clear throughput. Speaker 1 16:08 - 16:31 So what's an example of another industry that did that, right? Uber. They said, what's the ideal driver's experience, the rider's experience, and the owner of that particular business, in this case, Uber, and their experience, and then let's design a software for that. So I think a lot of us build our businesses saying, if I only had one more GPS for my cabs, I'd have a better experience. Speaker 1 16:31 - 16:39 No. What we really want to say is, what's the ideal experience? And then we challenge that with scalability and profitability. That's what comes in next. Speaker 1 16:39 - 17:00 And so if you have that designed, that's that strategic plan, what's ideal, and you really challenge that, I tested across many different parties, and said, okay, customers, what do you think if I did this? Okay, employees, what do you think if I did this? Okay, franchise owners, what do you think if I did this? And now I've got a they gave refined ideas, and it came together, and I'm really owning that experience. Speaker 1 17:00 - 17:11 And then you begin to build it next. So that's how you go down as you go and evaluate. Those three different vantage points. A lot of us as business decisions said, I've got to appeal back to that original part of the conversation to my shareholders. Speaker 1 17:12 - 17:16 I got to get a return. What's the easiest way to do that? Cut expenses. Go lay off people. Speaker 1 17:17 - 17:29 And then you realize 20 years later, I didn't do any R&D. I have the wrong team. I don't have enough employees to execute on that. Instead, you say, I'm going to get such an attractive customer experience. Speaker 1 17:29 - 17:41 It'll be undeniable that people want to come and use our services. Then I'll build my team to continue to support that. That's the alternative way when you're looking at vantage points broadly. And so it's mapping the customer experience to directly answer your question. Speaker 1 17:53 - 18:19 Interesting, have you been following what Disney's new CEO is doing right now? I haven't been doing that directly, but I'm aware that he's making some changes there. Laying off a thousand people because of, uh, integration of AI and, and replacing, uh, jobs. I wonder how that's, uh, I I'm just always curious how that's going to work, but let me, let me share with you what I, what I love so far. Speaker 1 18:19 - 18:45 You've, you've, you've created a foundation for an incredible customer experience. But for me, more importantly, you're creating a, uh, you're creating an ethos that an employee can. grab onto. If you think about what causes people to love their job, they want to have meaning, but they want to contribute. Speaker 1 18:45 - 19:17 They want to be able to create value. When they know exactly how to do that and how to create that value because you have so clearly stated that vision, that state of mind that you're creating, I think it makes it easier for them to do that and it's something that they can get excited about. So that helps to overcome and fight off the cultural impetus of employee good, leader bad. Here I have an opportunity to be part of an organization that is making a difference. Speaker 1 19:17 - 19:30 I can make a difference. People want to be contributors. They want to have meaning in their life. And I think that's something that you're giving them as a foundation that makes it easier to build on. Speaker 1 19:30 - 19:41 Just so simple. Let's create an environment. I don't care if you're painting curbs on the street. What is that meaning? Speaker 1 19:41 - 19:54 What is that vision? What is that state of mind that you're creating to make the world a better place? When you can articulate that, people will connect with that. Yeah, and I completely agree with you because everyone wants to contribute. Speaker 1 19:54 - 20:10 And I think it's a leadership failure when you don't tell them how what they're doing contributes to the vision overarching. Right. And so the first thing is, if we're a leader and we're trying to lead them according to the strategic plan is we need to tell them why they're strategic. The element of their responsibility leads towards the vision. Speaker 1 20:11 - 20:25 What impact are they having? Second, how, what they need to do, right? And then what they need to do in alignment, because if we don't give them what, they're going to kind of figure it themselves, and they may be running a different direction. They may be running hard and doing great work, but they're running the wrong direction. Speaker 1 20:25 - 20:42 Even though, say, why they're going to be passionate about it. And then the third is how. And that how, if we can do it so consistently, We can build that, and then we can really have material momentum, and you improve. If you use McDonald's as an organization, and you've seen, hopefully, the movie The Founder, you can see that it was, why? Speaker 1 20:42 - 20:50 Why are we doing this? We're going to create efficiency in the kitchen, right? Then how are we going to do this? We're going to have these in the order and subdivide it, and then what are we going to do? Speaker 1 20:50 - 21:12 We're going to literally do X, Y, and Z, and then look at how they've accelerated that to tens of thousands of stores globally and billions and billions of customers served. Obviously, everybody's experience may vary with McDonald's, but you can't deny the global impact they've had in that vein because they made those decisions. That's what we're applying here is, why? Why would every employee's job be important? Speaker 1 21:14 - 21:22 What do they need to accomplish and how do they do it? If they do that super consistently, that's how we're going to build our brand and achieve our vision. Read. Okay. Speaker 1 21:22 - 21:50 So, so, you know, you've laid laid out three steps that, that seems so simple. You know, this is the teamwork podcast. We talk about team performance all the time and we, we have shared so much data that shows very few teams worldwide are high performing, call it 10% or less. I mean, we had somebody on Qualtrics, the chief, uh, psychologist officer, Ben, uh, Ben Granger was just on saying, you know, that their experience 4.27%, you know, Harvard business review. Speaker 1 21:50 - 22:11 8.7%. So let's just say 10% worldwide teams are able to reach high performance with their teams. With all the formulas, with all the information out there, why do we struggle with that? What's the biggest mistake leaders are making that prevents them from growing their team? Speaker 1 22:12 - 22:29 I mean, beyond just ignoring these three steps, for example, I mean, is there something else? Because you've got ABC, but what are they doing? I think it comes down to selfishness, candidly, and that's not the answer people want to hear. We value ourselves over the others. Speaker 1 22:30 - 22:53 The servant leadership really is tangible. Here's why we may get dissuaded from thinking of others over ourselves, because we had a bad experience. We then say, one time I trusted or believed in somebody and they let me down. And so I know that if I just do it myself, if I just consider my needs first, then I'll give them the leftovers to be there. Speaker 1 22:54 - 23:13 But if we think of the other team members first, right, if you look at, I study sports as a good analogy to business and life. The people that win the championships are not because they have the best player. It's because they have the best team. As an example, the Winter Olympics, the U.S. hockey team beat the Canadian hockey team. Speaker 1 23:13 - 23:28 And I don't know if you have some listeners that are Canadian hockey team fans, but by all accounts, the Canadian hockey team had more talent. Better stats. Better stats, everything, right? Then, however, the US team had teamwork. Speaker 1 23:28 - 23:38 That's why they won, right? There was more shots, stats, all the above, right? Everything. And so I think the thing is they're focused not on themselves and their stats. Speaker 1 23:38 - 23:56 They were focused on winning as a team. And I think that's just analogous to what exactly I'm trying to say here is don't be worried about your stats, be worried about, you know, how you can come together and accomplish the vision. Reed, I'm throwing things at you here that we know we haven't really planned on, but are you familiar with game theory? Yes. Speaker 1 23:58 - 24:29 You know, it's interesting to me that I actually think you're onto something when you talk about selfishness, and it's all levels. Leadership, employees, everybody, society right now is, I got to get mine. And what's interesting is I actually, when I do some team retreats, occasionally I play a game and it is an intense game. And I don't want to give it away to people, but basically here's what happens. Speaker 1 24:30 - 25:06 We divide you into two teams and you have a choice to maximize whatever you're getting, right? Your points, right? And you can penalize the other team and you get so many points for doing that, or you can not do that and be hurt even worse if you don't fight back. So there's this, if everybody votes in each other's best interest, there's always more for everyone. Speaker 1 25:07 - 25:16 But what happens is when we, go ahead. That's effectively the prisoner's dilemma, right? It's the prisoner's dilemma. That's exactly what it is. Speaker 1 25:17 - 25:25 Yeah, that's a game theory you're espousing here. So I am familiar with it. I read a book on game theory. There's a series of theories they were running and the prisoner's dilemma was one of them. Speaker 1 25:25 - 25:48 And again, to your point, I think we can be a prisoner of our job. We can be a prisoner of our organization, to follow that game theory and analogy. But then what decision are we making, and which one are we happier with? And I think the challenge, and I think it's important to delve into this a little bit further, is when we make a selfish decision, it feels good in the moment, but it hurts long term. Speaker 1 25:49 - 26:02 We're losing friends. We're losing teammates. We're losing credibility long term because they know we're going to make the selfish decision, even though we may win short term. And we're going to lose people willingness to work with us. Speaker 1 26:02 - 26:11 And that just is compounding. Conversely, if we win as a team, everyone wants to join that team. And then they want to be a part of that team. And so we have to look long term. Speaker 1 26:11 - 26:21 Now, even if we have progression, the people will want to join that team. But if you have selfishness, people want to leave that team. It sounds so simple. And I try to make it simple so that we can change that behavior. Speaker 1 26:21 - 26:45 And so I think the key is to value others over self first. Yeah, and it's interesting. You've just identified that a high performer can actually hurt the team if they're not integrating, if they're not helping or developing others. You perpetuate a culture of, I'm in it for me. Speaker 1 26:45 - 27:05 I had a great mentor read that says, we were running a publicly traded company. And he said, you know, there's two businesses. There's the business of the business and the business of your stock. And he was never anyone that said we're all about the short-term return for our investors. Speaker 1 27:05 - 27:17 He was always about the long game. Listen, you're not going to see it right away. We've got to develop this strategy, this plan. And I think a great example of that is Costco. Speaker 1 27:18 - 27:46 Costco was a company that actually Wall Street said penalized because you're going to pay your people, you're going to treat them fairly, and you're going to short investors' return on investment in the beginning. They're like, yeah. And if you look at their return on investment over time, it is continually, steadily grown because they have taken a long-term approach. It's not about short-term profits. Speaker 1 27:47 - 28:07 Yeah, and I believe the last name of the founder there was Senegal. And I think he understood that very early on and never, never, ever, and this is a critical point, abandoned that. He always had the customer and employee experience first top of mind, not shareholder returns. That is a byproduct of that. Speaker 1 28:07 - 28:16 And look at it. I mean, I happened to go to a Costco this last weekend. I mean, no matter when you go, it's always busy. You're navigating, moving your cart around, and everybody's loading their carts up. Speaker 1 28:16 - 28:30 I mean, your average ticket is higher. The traffic is a lot higher, all the above, right? And it's all because they never lost sight of the customer experience and the employee experience. It's, you know, again, long-term versus short-term. Speaker 1 28:30 - 29:00 I, you know, I talk to CEOs all the time about developing their people when they come in, uh, you know, their direct reports come in and say, Hey, I need, uh, I need help. Or, uh, I have this question and like, don't answer it. Let them struggle, coach them through it, spend time with them and going over why their ideas are working or not working, not just get them out of your office to be efficient because going slow actually is, you've heard the cliche, go slow to go fast. I mean, it's helping your people. Speaker 1 29:00 - 29:13 So I have a question. What's the difference between someone who performs and someone who leads? Yeah, well, someone who performs is going to be delivering in the moment. Someone who leads is going to be building momentum over time. Speaker 1 29:13 - 29:30 And so I think to the point you were making is loyalty and trust are built over time, but can be lost in a moment. A performance is a circumstance. Leadership is towards a destination. Performance is a event. Speaker 1 29:31 - 29:56 We go to see a performance, a concert, but we're leading towards an outcome. You talk about developing those leaders going forward. How do you identify those leaders within your organization? How do you prepare them and start to make sure they're the ones that are going to help you scale? Speaker 1 29:57 - 30:06 Yeah. So I think a lot of that is first, what have they done beforehand? And it's not even a, you know, check the box or listed on a resume. Yeah. Speaker 1 30:06 - 30:21 I always look at their approach. How do they approach any challenge, right? Do they approach a challenge by looking at it first saying, okay, I see a problem and I'm going to find two to blame. Or did they find, they find a challenge in the past and take ownership of what they can own. Speaker 1 30:22 - 30:35 and then determine where they get and collaborate with other personnel and resources. First of all, their mindset leads to their words, leads to their actions. I listen to their language. If they're finding blame, not going to be a fit that can be developed because they don't take ownership. Speaker 1 30:36 - 30:58 I always tell people, you're getting the lead from whoever you blame. You're leading yourself if you blame yourself, saying, I can work on my own skills, Or if I blame the economy, I blame the weather, I blame the culture, that's who's leading you. The next time you turn on the news, that's where you're going to get directives. And so I want to see someone that's willing to first be a great self-leader to then be able to lead others. Speaker 1 30:59 - 31:22 If they take ownership for their circumstances in life, regardless of what they are, and then they have ability to build on top of that, and then ultimately lead others and take responsibility for them as well. So I think it starts with their mindset, their words, their language. Are they taking responsibility? where they're at even if they might be external factors affecting that or are they trying to place blame and that's the first starting point to see what i'm investing. Speaker 1 31:36 - 32:00 I think you've been talking to elon musk. Well, you know, certainly would, would entertain the conversation, but, uh, maybe, uh, maybe we align on those topics. I think he has some similar criteria. I can't remember exactly what he, what he was saying, but it was basically that, uh, you know, that, that, that, that, yeah, there's ownership there and they're, they've, they've been through challenges and they, they don't give up. Speaker 1 32:01 - 32:12 And they're not easily defeated. There's so much. Let's talk about your book, Lead Exponentially. So tell us a little bit about that. Speaker 1 32:12 - 32:24 If somebody gets that, what are they going to get? I mean, are they getting this formula of how to grow or how to lead your team? Tell me why you wrote it. What's it about? Speaker 1 32:24 - 32:35 Yes. So I think there's really three stages to leadership. The first book I wrote, Transform Through Purpose, was leading self. And once you've kind of mastered that and you're effective at leading yourself, the second book is then leading others. Speaker 1 32:35 - 32:45 And that's lead exponentially. Right. So now you're in an organization and there's a framework to that because we can lead ourselves very, very well. There's a lot of people that get promoted after leading themselves well, but they can't figure out how to lead others. Speaker 1 32:45 - 33:11 Right. They just can't get in a position or a place where they're making decisions that otherwise would be beneficial to growing the organization even though they've been a great performer on their own and so it gives you a framework to first say okay if you're going to choose to lead others how do you choose them that's the first step we kind of talked about that not friends or family necessarily or people by proximity but by choice for complimentary skills and above beyond. Then, how do we lead them? Speaker 1 33:11 - 33:19 What are the steps we lead going forward? Ultimately, what are we going to lead them to? An enduring organization. What is the objective? Speaker 1 33:19 - 33:35 We want a transfer of leadership from decade to decade of the organization we're building. That's how culturally we've grown. Part of the analogy I use in there is really looking at the foundation of the United States. Right? Speaker 1 33:35 - 33:50 And so you start with George Washington, and on either side of him you had Benjamin Franklin, a little bit older, right? Who had seen a lot more in the world. You had George Washington, then you had John Adams, and even Thomas Jefferson. And so that's leading through multiple generations, right? Speaker 1 33:50 - 34:06 Not just in the present generation. right? And you even look at how, as we study history, George Washington was using his resources. He saw that even using Benjamin Franklin as an example to go be a ambassador for the United States because he was in the print media, right? Speaker 1 34:06 - 34:33 And so he was over there and aware of that a little bit older, and he's kind of the sage. And then Thomas Jefferson, who was, you know, merely just past his teens at the early stage when the Declaration of Independence was written and ultimately became our fourth president. So You see continuity. And so they were collectively sharing that knowledge, that leadership knowledge at multiple layers in the organization, instead of just sitting in a room of the same age, same people with the same mindset and ideologies, trying to lead the country going forward. Speaker 1 34:33 - 34:43 And look at where we're at as a result, right? We were a non-existent economy. And we're going to celebrate our 250th anniversary. We're a non-existent economy to being the world's largest economy. Speaker 1 34:43 - 35:08 That, to me, is dynamic leadership development. You created something that literally all the European countries, everywhere everybody immigrated from at that stage in the 1700s, was bigger than the United States by an economic measure. And now we're by far the biggest, all because of leadership leading exponentially through multiple generations. We take those principles, we teach them how they can be applied in business, and we look at that as we build. Speaker 1 35:08 - 35:26 That's what that book is about. That's fascinating. I, I mean, I, obviously I love the history of, of our country and, uh, I think there's so many contributing facts to, to, uh, our, our success as a nation. And, um, some of it's related to Providence. Speaker 1 35:26 - 35:58 I mean, a great, a great deal of it. Uh, we're also very uniquely situated as, as, uh, as a land, I mean, navigable rivers that nobody has, almost impossible to invade, although we have been invaded, but we've got some great things. But how did George Washington and how do you know who's ready for leadership? You know, you talked about sending, you know, Ben Franklin, of course, he was seasoned and perfect for, he was perfect for that job in Paris. Speaker 1 35:59 - 36:18 But, you know, when do we know they're ready? Yeah, I think you bring up a valid point before you answer that question, which is yes, we have all the resources and I've seen countless companies that all the resource they got tons of money. They get finances and they got, you know, the right industry. They were the first mover advantage, right? Speaker 1 36:19 - 36:32 But they did not have good leadership. Yeah. And that's where the missing piece is, because we can have all the resources and we can look around, we can go get financing and the right product and everything else, but it always comes down to leadership. And so that's where the next step was, how do they lead? Speaker 1 36:32 - 36:51 And so the one thing that I think it goes back to the comments I was making earlier is every person in that room, and even look at the initial statement, right, is we, the people, right? It wasn't about I, George Washington. It was we. It's about everyone. Speaker 1 36:51 - 37:07 It's not about any individual. The people, they didn't even list themselves in the Declaration of Independence, although today we craft that around ourselves in our imagery, right? And then it becomes self-evident. They essentially crafted a vision statement, right? Speaker 1 37:07 - 37:23 And that's the Declaration of Independence. And they worked on it for 30 days, and they had differing points, and they had uniform agreement, and they signed it even though there was some, I believe, that did not sign it. And so I think it was a matter of who believes, to your point and your question, who believes in the vision we're trying to accomplish. Let's clarify that commitment. Speaker 1 37:25 - 37:35 And then let's ultimately, they went back, and that was the next step. It's important to understand this too. They went back to the local communities, those colonies, and they brought that message to them. And so that's, you get them to lead and align in the vision. Speaker 1 37:36 - 37:51 They comprehensively commit, and then they bring that back to their teams. That's what happened at the beginning of the formation of the United States, so they could be aligned. You know, you talk about finding people that have complementary skills. Does that always work out? Speaker 1 37:51 - 38:24 I mean, I know that's not an open-ended question, but I mean, if you have a choice between somebody with complementary skills versus the attributes of aligning with the mission vision values that didn't have those skills, I mean, if you had that choice, that binary choice, I mean, what do you do? Because there seems to be a talent shortage right now. Yeah, so first of all, I can tell you this much. Speaker 1 38:24 - 38:47 Ideology does not materially change from the beginning to the end of their employment, typically. I mean, their character doesn't change materially. Their personality doesn't materially change, but their skills do. I remember when I was, I still had the same mentality as a child that I do now. Speaker 1 38:47 - 39:01 My personality, my mom will tell you, is similar. But I've learned a tremendous amount, right? My skills have heavily developed, right? So I think the first thing you cannot, if they're culturally not aligned, their personality is culturally not aligned, their ideology is not aligned, that's not going to change. Speaker 1 39:01 - 39:17 But what you can do is train and teach them. And that takes time. And so if you're solving for today, and it goes back to that stock price today, you're always going to be trying to find talent that can have an immediate impact. And again, using a sports analogy, I follow the NBA relatively closely. Speaker 1 39:17 - 39:41 The teams that, over time, build their talent internally are more likely to win a championship. A recent example, that's Oklahoma City Thunder. In the NBA, they basically had used a series of draft picks, and then two to three to four years later, became champions. Versus those who are trying to find the most developed talent to then go sign an enormous contract and bring them to their team, and they may not win a championship. Speaker 1 39:42 - 40:00 Right. And so I think we try to hit that quarterly objective by bringing in someone who's going to save the quarter. And it doesn't happen versus building the principles, the process, the team internally that culturally align, recruiting them and developing them so that they can win a championship long term. That's what they did at Costco. Speaker 1 40:01 - 40:07 Right. They didn't listen to naysayers. They didn't go hire a higher gun. A majority of their talent is developed internally. Speaker 1 40:07 - 40:24 And that's why they won. You know, this provides an opportunity for you to create the second condition that people will love their work. First of all, we said they feel valued for contributing. People like to be part of a winning team, right? Speaker 1 40:24 - 40:50 So if they're contributing to a winning team, that's something that people love. I mean, more than pay, more than culture, more than all this other stuff. The second thing that causes people to love their job is a challenge, is an opportunity to grow. Not so much that they shut down, not so much that they're way over outmatched for their skills, but that they're just enough uncomfortable that they have to stretch. Speaker 1 40:51 - 41:09 Give people assignments and goals that are slightly beyond their capability. Because after a while, when people start to master the tasks or the skills that are required, it becomes rote. It becomes boring. There's no growth opportunity. Speaker 1 41:10 - 41:38 And people, most people, are motivated by the opportunity to become something more, to become something better, to be invested in. And the kids of today, the Gen Zs, one of the things that they're looking for in an employer is someone that cares about their well-being. that you're ethical, that you're fair. And one of the best ways to show that you care about their well-being is to invest in them, to spend your time as a leader, to mentor. Speaker 1 41:39 - 41:55 That takes time, right? Again, we're talking long-term thinking. Some short-term pain in the fact that we've got to develop the bench strength and we need to give up our precious time to pass on knowledge to the next generation. For sure. Speaker 1 41:55 - 42:05 Everything takes time, unfortunately, and or fortunately, right? I mean, I think we are a byproduct. Our organization here is a byproduct of saying staying in the same direction over time. Right. Speaker 1 42:05 - 42:16 I've led this for 19 years. We're doing hundreds of millions of dollars in 48 states and nine countries. That's not because day one, I decided I was gonna do that and did it. And I did day one, that was the vision. Speaker 1 42:16 - 42:36 But I didn't do it just one day. I think the point I'm making is I did that every year, every day for every year, right? And so the only resource we have is our time and the energy we apply to it. So what shifts when a leader starts developing other leaders instead of doing it all themselves? Speaker 1 42:38 - 42:51 Yeah. So I think one, let's look at this as a math equation. If you are growing your organization, you are dividing your time. If you don't develop others, right, you're dividing your time. Speaker 1 42:51 - 43:08 And so you only have so much time and you get stuck at a level because you can only divide it down so much. It becomes infantile at some point. And so the next step for you is to then subtract things off your schedule that are not creating value. And so then as you start subtracting things, that'll get you a little bit further. Speaker 1 43:10 - 43:27 Then you start adding team members, right? And so then you get to a capacity where you can only manage eight to 12. Maybe they say that you can manage 80 relationships, and that's between customers, employees, and the like, effectively. But when you lead exponentially, now you're multiplying. Speaker 1 43:28 - 43:50 So if I now multiply and I develop leaders that can then develop leaders and develop leaders, I'm multiplying and now you can become an exponential organization. And it really is that simple math equation. I think so many leaders are just dividing their time between competing interests. And the next natural thing they'll do is subtract out a couple of things on their schedule or to-do list and say, I don't need to do that anymore. Speaker 1 43:50 - 43:59 And so I can do a little bit more. Then they say, I just need to add one person to help me or five people to help me or 50 people to help me. And they're like, I can't manage them all. I'm getting burned out. Speaker 1 43:59 - 44:13 It's when they really learn to develop, lead others, and develop them that they get that multiplication effect. And that's where you can build the global organization that you're aspiring to, or have a much broader impact. And so it's really those steps that are there. Really look at how you're leading and where you're at. Speaker 1 44:13 - 44:54 If you want to be a multiplier, then make sure that you get the right people that you can multiply through and choose the right people. You know, Gallup just came out with a report on the 9th of April. I don't know if you saw that, that said manager engagement went from 31% engagement in 2022 to 22% in 2025. That's a, that's a nine point drop in manager engagement. Speaker 1 44:56 - 45:14 I mean, what, how do you interpret that? Well, first of all, that's a third drop, right? 30% drop over the previous metric, right? And so then I think of all the people that, and so let's look at it this way and let's make this a much larger number that's quantifiable. Speaker 1 45:14 - 45:41 So in the United States, I think there's 150 million people working, give or take, right? Maybe 200 million. And so then if you take a third of those people, right, that means that 70 million, if there's 200 million people, 70 million people, are less engaged than they were three years ago. And 70 million people, managers, let's just take it as a number, a raw data number, are not investing in the next generation. Speaker 1 45:41 - 45:51 So then we have what? Call it 3 million people born every year? Compound that problem. So then you compound that problem one year, the next year, the next year. Speaker 1 45:51 - 46:07 Then we have a whole bunch of people 20 years from now that have not been developed in the workplace because their managers are not developing them. Who's gonna carry our economy going forward? Yeah, great question. I mean, what's happening is that the stress levels with managers are increasing. Speaker 1 46:08 - 46:27 In many organizations, they're expected to do more with less. That's really been happening since the 2008 recession, carried all the way through to COVID and forward. You know, we've got teams that are bigger and organizations are flatter. We're all focused on efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, which we've been talking about, I'll show. Speaker 1 46:27 - 46:54 And it comes back to bite us. And if you're only in that, you know, let me show something really quickly. One of the things we do with my organization is we assess where teams are at in the productivity versus sustainable productivity quadrant, right? And so if you look at the bottom right quadrant, that is highly productive, but low positive. Speaker 1 46:54 - 47:08 stress, burnout, you know, and that's where the turnover comes, right? And that's where the low engagement comes. Most organizations, if you look at the top left, that's high positivity, low productivity. And then on the bottom left is low, low. Speaker 1 47:08 - 47:31 You're out of business really quick. Our goal is to get up to that right quadrant where that red arrow is to be highly productive and highly positive. But most organizations have an outline like this little white box here. There's a scale, if you will, Reed, of productivity in a range, you know, from low to high, but not all the way. Speaker 1 47:31 - 47:50 And then the conditions in terms of trust and great interaction and development of the people. And that's a range that's low to mid. And so that's why, I mean, only 10% of teams are high performing. There's so much stress and anxiety at the leadership level. Speaker 1 47:51 - 48:08 You're holding onto too much because it's all about, I just got to, you know, I just got to get through the day. I've got to do my tasks. And you take those tasks home and you never have time for yourself. Yeah, and I think it's a competing interest for the managers, leaders, everyone, it's short term and long term competing interests. Speaker 1 48:09 - 48:22 And we just get stuck in the middle. I mean, I'll use this analogy, if the interest is always long term, we'd know what to focus on. And so I remember, you know, we moved into our first house decades ago. And my wife's like, hey, paint the garage white. Speaker 1 48:22 - 48:30 And so I went and got garage white, literally at the paint shop, you know. So we moved into another house later. And she goes paint the garage white, I went and got the garage paint white. Oh, wrong color. Speaker 1 48:31 - 48:40 And I said, it literally says garage white. And the problem was there were so many choices for the color white. I didn't know which one, so I'm frozen. Like, oh, is it this garage white? Speaker 1 48:40 - 48:53 Is that garage white? And that's what happens in competing interests in the workforce, is we're just waiting for the next initiative when we didn't even get a chance to work on the first one. And so we're stressed because we're behind on the other one. And then we have decision fatigue. Speaker 1 48:53 - 49:01 Then we get burned out. Then we get worn out. Then we just start deciding to quit and go find another job. And so people don't stay at that same problem for enough time to really find a solution. Speaker 1 49:01 - 49:10 Right. They're not going to be the Thomas Edison that tries a thousand times to figure out a light bulb. They're going to try once and they didn't figure out a light bulb. They're going to go figure out how to build a skateboard or something. Speaker 1 49:10 - 49:21 I don't know. You know, I mean, they don't stay with the same problem in the same way to really resolve that. And that's why they add stress is because they're constantly bouncing and learning new things without truly being productive. Did you, did you repaint the garage? Speaker 1 49:22 - 49:34 Like three or four times? No, I think I just, uh, I think in the end I said, hey, this will do. And I think I kind of had that conversation that no one's going to notice. It's not the garage white you wanted going forward, but I'll learn for next time. Speaker 1 49:34 - 49:44 How about you pick the color next time is what I think I said, actually. That's smart, yeah. I'm always letting my wife choose the colors. And she has my opinion, and I'm like, that looks good. Speaker 1 49:46 - 50:01 What's one mindset shift that turns managers into leaders? Great question. I think the mindset shift would start with this and I'm going to be very practical. Then we'll talk about how it shifts your mind. Speaker 1 50:02 - 50:14 If you stopped thinking about yourself, your objectives, your goals, your requirements and responsibilities for one week. Who would you think about? Whose goals? Whose responsibilities? Speaker 1 50:15 - 50:25 Whose effort? Who else would you think about, right? We're so pressured to think about our performance and our impact. And if we stop that, who are we going to think about? Speaker 1 50:25 - 50:42 So if you think then you're starting to think about someone else. Now I'll ask you this as a leader or manager. And maybe even for you, Spencer, I was way better when my manager was thinking about how they could help me instead of how I helped them achieve their goals. Right? Speaker 1 50:42 - 50:56 If the manager said to me, hey, read, here's how you can develop. And here's what you can do. And as a direct result, it would help improve his numbers. Instead of saying, read, I have this number, I'm under pressure from my manager, I got to hit this number, what are you going to do? Speaker 1 50:57 - 51:08 What are you going to do to help me get it? Or I'm going to be fired, whatever the case might be, right? And I think ultimately, that's the first mindset shift is saying, how can I help my team member be better? How can I help them encourage and achieve their goal? Speaker 1 51:08 - 51:16 And as a result, I'll achieve mine. Instead of saying, hey, team member, you've got to help me do my goal. I'm under such pressure. I've got to hit these quarterly things. Speaker 1 51:16 - 51:22 And we see leaders communicate in that way. And it actually separates them. They're like, that's your stress, buddy. That's not mine. Speaker 1 51:22 - 51:29 That's what the team member's thinking. Yet as a leader saying, I've got to really get this done. I'm under such pressure. So I think that mind shift would be, how do I help them become better? Speaker 1 51:30 - 51:50 And they will help me accomplish my goal instead of saying, I'm going to tell them what needs to be done, and they better help me get my goal. Focus on others, put others even before yourself. It's a servant leader mentality is what I heard you just say. I have what are called a lightning round. Speaker 1 51:52 - 52:07 What I'm gonna do is I'm going to ask you 10 just really fast questions. One word answers or just really, really brief. No thinking about it, just whatever first comes to your mind, all right? Absolutely. Speaker 1 52:08 - 52:17 One word that defines great leadership? Servant. Performer or leader, which is harder to develop? Leader. Speaker 1 52:18 - 52:28 Most underrated leadership trait? Persistence. One habit every leader should build? Self-awareness. Speaker 1 52:30 - 52:41 Biggest mistake leaders make with teams? Not giving credit. Leadership is taught or developed? Developed. Speaker 1 52:43 - 52:53 One question every leader should ask their team. How can I help you? High performance starts with? Commitment. Speaker 1 52:55 - 53:12 One word that describes your leadership style. I would say servant leadership. Finish this, great teams are built when? The vision is clear and the responsibilities are well defined. Speaker 1 53:13 - 53:37 You know, it's been so great, Reed, having you on the show. I love just your energy, hard-hitting ideas, and very practical steps that our listeners can take. If someone wants to reach out to you for, you know, your advice, your services, you know, how can people get a hold of you? What's the best way? Speaker 1 53:37 - 53:52 Where do you want them to reach you at? Yeah, I'm passionate about this project, right? So, nextinleadership.com is a website that actually there's a quiz that you can take on there that'll lead, you know, where are you at in leadership, right? In development. Speaker 1 53:52 - 54:07 And then this podcast will be on there, among many other things. And these will be tools. It'll be kind of like a curriculum or a playlist to help you develop your skills. It's a well-rounded series of voices, including your commentary and podcast on there, so they can reach me there. Speaker 1 54:08 - 54:19 My contact information is there as well. They can get the books and content. We'll have co-collaborators that'll be over time and investing in that as well to help develop their skills. Nextinleadership.com is the place to go. Speaker 1 54:19 - 54:45 We have, uh, Courtney send me any of the, the, the survey links or anything like that. That would be great. We'll put them in the show notes and your website in the show notes so that people can, can reach you. Well, it's been wonderful to, to have you anything else that before we leave that you want to, uh, say before, before we say goodbye today, I think I would tell your audience that they can choose today, their future. Speaker 1 54:46 - 54:57 and they should make that choice. Don't live a default life. Don't default to whatever you've been doing or whatever you feel like life has dealt to you. Choose today where you want to go, right? Speaker 1 54:58 - 55:16 And make the changes necessary to achieve that because you will thank your future self by not living the default life. And I can believe that it's difficult for a road ahead for you, but choose today the life you want to live. Don't live a default life. Fantastic. Speaker 1 55:16 - 55:40 Stick with me for just a second, Reid, after I end the show. There'll be a couple seconds of silence, but for those of our fans and our listeners, please like and subscribe to Teamwork a Better Way. Share it with your coworkers, with your friends, with everybody you know. We're so grateful that you joined us today, and we will see you next time on Teamwork