Trey: Hello and welcome back to another episode of MCU Need to Know, a podcast
dedicated to the Marvel cinematic universe and everything you need to know.
I'm Trey.
Jude: I'm Jude.
How are you doing Trey?
Trey: Well, dude, I'm excited because today we get to bring back the man whose
musical talent opens and closes the show.
And whose name has become the definitive mic drop.
We're delighted to welcome back, Nick Sandy to the vodcast.
Welcome Nick.
How's it going guys?
Jude: Dude.
Well, how are you
Nick: doing Nick?
I'm doing great.
I'm excited to be back and excited to, to talk some brackets with you
Jude: guys.
Yes.
We've been
Trey: looking forward to this.
This has been an episode, a couple of months in the making and I am so thrilled.
Not only that we're finally getting to do it, but that you are joining us for this
particular episode, because there's going to be a lot of discussions and potential
mediating, and you are starting to develop a pattern where you're coming in to help
us mediate after our most heated episodes.
So of course you were there for the truck fiasco, and I know you're not
caught up, but you were coming in after one of our second, most heated
episodes, the multi-verse of madness.
So we didn't really
Jude: argue,
Trey: well, it was heated.
Jude: I'm not saying it wasn't heated.
I'm just saying.
It's like, you didn't disagree with me.
You might not have gone as far as I did.
Nick: You guys need to make like the tier list when, you know, when money,
when multi-verse came out of madness.
And I was like, you must listen to these episodes first, before
you watched this episode.
Jude: Yeah.
Right.
It just gives you a sense of what that episode was like, that we're
not even agreeing on whether or not we agree how it was.
Trey: So whenever you do get caught up with the podcast, you're going
to come in and help us expand.
Nick: I do have a degree in psychology and I did want to be a counselor.
So this is just how I'm getting to use my education.
Trey: There's a part of me that loves that because that's amazing.
And also partnering that's laughing because I remember when you came in
on the Falcon and the winter soldier episode, you specifically said you were
taking both sides just to stir things up.
It's true.
So, of course, if you downloaded this episode, you know, we're going
to be talking about the trilogies and the Marvel cinematic universe.
But before we get there, I just wanted to take a quick temp.
Sandy, we've got Xi Hoke, miss Marvel and Thor love and thunder on the horizon.
Are any of those entries sticking
Nick: out to you?
Thor 11th, thunder just looks like so much fun.
It's so cool to see Jane Foster back and she looks buff and I'm really interested
to see if they're going to go with some of the comic accurate storylines with her.
Um, I'm really, really excited about that.
Plus Thor is one of my son's favorite characters.
And so, uh, I'm hoping, you know, that we can take that.
I can take him to the theater and see it with them.
We did, we saw Shanghai in the theater, uh, after, after you guys
recommended, you know, Judy, you had told me that I should do that.
And so we did, and it was great and it was really good experience.
I'm hoping to get a chance to see it first and then, or have one
of you guys see it and tell me if it's going to be appropriate enough
for my, my five-year-old, but, uh, yeah, I'm really excited about.
Trey: Yeah.
Have you seen the new trailer?
I did see the
Nick: new trailer, so I did.
Yeah.
Trey: So we'll see.
We'll
Jude: see.
Well, I was gonna say it was in between the, the new trailers,
but they blur things out.
It's, you know, listen, it
Trey: happens.
It's it's all, it's all nice.
And pixelated.
So, and it was a quick guy.
Nick: Yeah.
And it's all, he hasn't seen that before, you know?
Trey: Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that trailer specifically looks like Ragnar rock just turned two 11.
So I am 100% waiting, uh, not too long of a wait because that's coming out in July.
So that's not too far off.
Jude: And it's not, that'll be here quick.
And then
Nick: Trey, you know, we had talked off pod, but she, it looks really interesting
and I'm really very interested to see, like, where are they going to take that?
And I would literally, right before I got on, uh, to record a few guys, like
I saw an article, it was like Disney has fixed the CGI and she, and had some
side-by-sides, uh, comparisons of what we saw the first trailer versus what
we can expect in the actual series.
So that gives me some hope as well, moving forward that, that series that
they, they put some more love into it.
Yeah.
That's
Trey: really exciting to see, because I think I saw a similar article and it was
like comparing the compression of YouTube versus I don't know where they got it,
but it had a Disney plus logo in it.
So it was a higher quality resolution.
And I saw it too.
Like, it's, it's a very distinct but subtle upgrade versus what
was in that original trailer.
So that's nice to see that it is getting some, uh, attention before release.
Jude: I do wonder.
No cause, cause I think we, we even mentioned it speculated a lot of times
that does happen in general, right?
Like where there is the trailer, isn't the final rendering.
Um, and so I, I am curious to what extent this was a mix of final rendering
and kind of that Sonic the hedgehog.
Thing where the fans are like, no, and they're like, okay, we'll fix it.
Oh, Sonic the hedgehog.
I'm just saying,
Trey: right.
I'm not disagreeing.
I'm just like, what does it feel like for that franchise to, because it becomes
synonymous, which has bad CGI impression.
Nick: Have you, if you haven't seen the new chip and Dale movie,
um, it's, it's, uh, it's like a fever dream and like a love letter
to Roger rabbit, but, uh, just.
If you are going to plant a seed, I won't say anything more, but your, your comment
about Sonic being synonymous with CG made me think of a scene in Chippendale.
So it's worth checking out, honestly, it's, it's not as bad
as it, as you would think it would
Jude: be all right.
I will check it out.
Well.
Yeah.
Well,
Trey: thank you so much for that quick temp of the upcoming MCU slate.
But like I said, if you downloaded this episode, you'd already be talking about
what is the best trilogy movie and the Marvel cinematic universe, the way we're
going to handle this is we're going to create a tournament style bracket,
where we are going to pit every movie from captain America, iron man Thor.
And Spider-Man.
Into this bracket and we're going to bait until we have one winner.
Specifically, we have a randomized BRACA generator that we're going to use.
I'm also going to send it to both you Jude and Nick.
So we can watch this as we go along.
We'll have five minutes per round to come to a consensus.
And if not, we'll cast a vote and whoever has the most votes,
we'll move on to the next round.
So I specifically waited until we were in the recording so I could get
a genuine reaction alongside you guys.
So I'm going to go ahead and do that now.
So I'm using a website called common ninja.com.
I've already put in the entries.
I'm going to go ahead and hit randomized.
I sent it to you, Jude and Nick, let me know if you get it.
And if you were seeing it,
Jude: got the textile, open it up.
Here we go.
Awesome.
Okay.
Trey: All right.
We've got some interesting matchups here.
Jude: Okay.
It's not just the interesting matchups.
It's the buys.
Yeah.
It's the ones that make it to make it to the second round on a by,
Trey: oh no, I don't know how that happened.
So I say let's go ahead and leave that a mystery for people to find out what's
on the second round as it happens.
Okay.
All right.
Well, starting with our first round and I'm going to throw to
you first to open it up, Nick.
I'll give you a heads up.
Whenever I start the timer, the first round is going to feature
Thor and Spider-Man homecoming and I'm starting the timer.
Now,
Nick: obviously we have to go with Thor based on the blonde
eyelash blonde eyebrows alone.
Right.
That's gotta be the better movie.
No, I'm kidding.
Uh, it's my, it's my rent.
Jude: Okay.
Well, hold on here.
There's a core character, right?
And so as
Trey: Spiderman,
Jude: I mean, okay.
I know I'm a Spider-Man fan, but hold on Thor, go from phase one and
we're about to get a fourth store.
That's true.
Like he's really hit his stride.
Because of Thor, we're getting Jane Foster.
Nick: So yeah, I mean, you're right.
Jane Foster, isn't that movie.
There's a lot of really great stuff in there.
And we'd be like, Chuck is in that movie.
And, um, and it does like set off a lot of stuff and it does have a lot to do
with like the overarching Avengers thing.
And he's the first one to get the fourth, the first solo care to
get the fourth movie coming out.
So you
Jude: may have to
Trey: spin-offs to spin-offs low key season.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
You're stirring to win me over.
And I got to say there would not be a fourth without the original.
So that was the pie.
That was the point that started to win me specifically.
Although Nick, whenever you mentioned the blonde eyebrows, I'm almost positive.
Kevin has come out and said that his, one of his biggest regrets in,
Nick: well, he can comment in the comments, you know,
cause he's a super van.
So he
Trey: looked here this,
Jude: yeah, I
Nick: mean going heavy.
When was the last time you went back and watched the first.
Last year.
Okay.
So recently, like I going back and re visiting, like, it is funny.
Like I think Kat Dennings is really funny.
Like when I remember seeing Ragnar rock the first time and being like, oh, this
is a total change in, in, in tone for Thor, but like going back, like there's
quite a bit of humor in that movie.
And like, I think like all the characters are played well and, um,
even, uh, Sylvia is good in that movie.
And the redemption arc is good in that movie, like from
where he was to where he is.
And
Jude: yeah, I think, I think we actually get, I think, I think you're
right on the Thor having more humor and, and it was kind of a myth that
Ragnar rock save the war in that sense.
Um, well, very careful because I do agree with that statement right.
Of what Ragnarok did for Thor, but in terms of, if you watch
that injury and it's more.
Um, Avengers, Thor to Avengers too, that kind of take him in a different
direction than what you got in door.
Uh, because I remember watching it, uh, even the very first time and
felt it was very balanced on oh.
And being able to take itself seriously, but realizing, okay, this
is a store, you know what I mean?
And so, yeah, so it's, I think it's actually a really,
Trey: I think I'm one over because DOR, without Thor, we don't get
the fantastical side of the MCU.
It establishes the cosmic and it gets redone with guardians of the galaxy.
But without the promise of Thor, I don't think we have the wildness of Avengers
end game where you can see Spiderman swinging golf, Valkyries, Pegasus, as
he's wielding are flying off mule Nair.
I think I just got one over the Thor over cause Spider-Man homecoming.
There's two other ones.
I like homecoming a lot, but I think Thor deserves it.
Jude: Yeah.
See, I love, I love homecoming.
I love Spider-Man homecoming.
Um, but there's something about it.
If I'm going to look at these side by side and I think about the trilogy as
a whole and its contribution to the MCU as a whole, as much as I don't, I, I
personally don't have a problem with the, you know, iron man Jr thing critique.
I don't.
Um, but it does give that feeling of, okay.
It's not, not fully his movie.
So
Nick: when I'm upset, I got to say too, as far as like bad guys, Q2 like low key
is carried through versus like vulture.
Like we've seen him, but like, you know, like
Jude: Michael Hayden was great.
Yeah.
There was no follow-through yeah.
Trey: Did we just pick
Jude: Thor kind of think we did.
Trey: Wow.
Nick, when you started with Thor, where you thinking, this
is how it was going to end up,
Nick: I thought for sure it would just be like, but of course it's Spider-Man
Trey: right.
Oh my God.
Jude: Well, I didn't upset.
Trey: All right, I'm going to update the bracket here.
Oh my
Jude: God.
Wow.
Trey: If we didn't upset people last week,
Nick: half the listeners just hit stop already.
Trey: All right.
Thor moves on to the next round.
Ready?
Go ahead and move into the next bracket.
Which is going to put iron man versus iron man three, I'm going to start a timer.
Jude.
You're going to start a startup.
Now
Jude: iron man, three top 10 MCU movie.
Um, this is there's no question as good as iron man is iron man.
Three has iron man.
Has Tony has the connection to previous events tries to deal with
real-world problems with his PTSD.
Um, I know people don't like the, the re the twist, uh, but I love it.
I love taking that iconography and we'll talk about, you know, in his head.
I thought that was a fantastic movie that has to go on.
I
Trey: find that what saved Thor in the first round was that
it was a foundational piece.
Of the MC hero and I'm, I'm kinda leaning towards Jude, but it is funny.
I, Ironman is the foundational piece.
Nick, where are you leaning on this one?
Nick: You know, this was kind of the, the one in my head that I was thinking
of like going into this, like how I was going to reconcile the iron man three
problem, because going back, like later on, like, you know, the first time I
saw iron man three, I really didn't care for it, but going back and rewatching
it a couple of times since then it does.
I think it does hold up more than I thought it would.
Um, it's interesting.
Judy said something interesting like iron man three has Tony.
It has iron man.
I would say it doesn't.
I think it has Tony with a sprinkling of iron man in it, you know, like
iron man armors are for sure.
And then, but like he's not in them as often as like you would see in like the
other movies that in like the iron man one definitely does lay the foundation.
The thing that I didn't like about iron man three, the thing that the question
I have to ask is did they take enough from it into what comes after it?
I mean, like.
Pepper has the extremest virus.
Right.
And then you'd never hear of that again, as far as I know, and then
Trey: like, well, they, it's a very, very quick throwaway line, but at the
end of that montage, they remedy it.
So she no longer has extremists by the end of the movie.
That's, it's also in this same quick montage where you find out that they
took the shrapnel out too for towing.
So it's like, it's very rapid succession at the end there.
Okay.
Nick: And like, I liked the, the, the Slattery character and Shanghai,
I thought he was charming, you know?
And
Jude: Richard's Slaton, Trevor Slattery, Trevor, Trevor,
Nick: and, you know, Trey, like, it's the same thing.
Like, are we, are we going to go with the foundational laying of Ironman one?
Are we going to go with what pushed the characters forward and
iron man three and iron man three really does push the characters
Jude: forward.
They do, but it also.
It ended in such a way that it completed the trilogy.
Like, like if you never saw iron mannequin in the MCU, you get a finished story.
It's really true because it has that what I am Ironman.
Like he, they bring back the line to end that.
And then when you look at the, in credits, not like an Intacct in credits,
but the credits where they're showing it, you know, they're showing clips
and pictures from all three movies.
So it was clearly a definitive end.
You know, I think his contract ran out with that one and then, you know,
and then because that was after the Avengers and then we had to recite
them to get them into these others.
So in that sense, in terms of like for the trilogy, it was, it was
a really good ending to that arc.
Trey: It's one of the few MCU movies that is as conclusive as
that, like you said, it better.
If we never saw her, man, again, it was wrapped up perfectly
Nick: and you wouldn't have the Ironman, you have an Avengers end
game and, uh, infinity war without his character development in that movie,
Jude: right?
Yeah.
Trey: Yeah.
I'm definitely the leaning iron man three, if only, and I don't know
if this is medic gaming, the only other movie I can think that is as
conclusive is Spider-Man no way home because, and that has to deal with the.
Sony Disney having to play nice.
So they wrote it in a way that if that deal falls through again, it makes
sense that Peter Parker's not there.
I I'm very curious to see what would happen if these two meet
up again in the later rounds,
Nick: 3, 3,
Trey: 3.
All right.
We had about 19 seconds left, but we've got our winner.
So I'm gonna go ahead and stop the timer and iron man three
moves onto the next round.
Nice.
What's so funny.
Whenever we did our draft, the movie draft with TK, I was faced with iron
man and iron man three, since I had the number one pick and I felt like I betrayed
Ironman three because I went for the audience reaction and chose iron man.
I feel like this is a little bit of a redemption for my love of iron.
So first two rounds.
We have potentially upset the audience, but we're moving on.
The next round is going to feature.
Oh man.
Spider-Man no way home versus captain America, civil war.
Jude: I just, I feel like
Trey: starting a timer.
I almost forgot to set it for myself.
Well,
Jude: no, like I, I wasn't even taking a timer.
I was just making a comment of like, Hey, this is, feels like the first real test.
Trey: I will say this for every redemptive arc I just had with my love
of iron man three, I feel like I'm about to betray captain America again.
Oh, I love civil war.
It is not the strongest captain America film.
Spider-Man no way home does.
I think what civil war did, but across studio, Because you had Andrew
Garfield, you had Toby Maguire.
It brought in those heroes.
It brought in the villains to varying degrees.
Not every villain got the same level of attention, but what Spider-Man no
way home does as good as civil war is.
I think Spider-Man no way home does it better.
And I think I could see it moving forward.
Captain America here
Jude: trying to put together
Trey: an, our list of new co-hosts for
Jude: civil war in terms of versus these two.
And I just can't, um,
Nick: if we're talking about the, you know, the best third movie,
as, you know, coming off of iron man three and Spiderman, civil
war is the worst, third movie.
All it does is set up the conflict.
Right.
You know what I mean?
It doesn't button up.
Anything, all it does is make more conflict.
Jude: Right.
And that's, and that's what makes it so difficult is because that was.
Right because you get Joe and Anthony Russo knowing they're going into the
Avengers, infinity war and end game.
And so they know that they can wrap that up later.
Right.
Uh, which, which, so that's why it's so hard to judge on that.
Cause you, you know, they know like even when it came out, it wasn't
like, is this going to be successful?
So we do this or not.
Um, but you're right.
As a third entry to a trilogy Spider-Man Spider-Man, Spider-Man,
Spider-Man no way home is better.
Spider-Man
Trey: running away with this.
I will, I want to push back because Sandy, you just mentioned.
Um, civil war doesn't finish anything.
I can agree to an extent because obviously civil war gets called
a vendor's two and a half.
Like, I don't think you get that title without there being some element of truth.
I would argue though, Steve Rogers arc from first Avenger through in game
is taking his faith in institutions to faith in people, civil war ends
with him saying like, it's not the military, it's not the Avengers.
It's the people in my life that I tr like, I care about that I trust.
So there is that closure, but it's not center stage, like the civil war aspect
of all these different heroes, I think over out shines it to say the least.
Nick: I mean, he does lay his shield down, you know, like, just like, and that's kind
of the end of that character, I guess.
I see your point there.
Trey: It's interesting though.
Cause we just talked about iron man three being a definitive end.
If that was the last we saw Steve Rogers, what a heartbreak of an ending
dropping the shield and going away
Jude: well, and again, that's, it's not, you know, and
that's, that's the, uh, oh man.
That's what makes it tough.
Trey: Well, so we've been talking about civil war.
What are some points we could say for no way home, Sandy, do you have any
arguments for the case of no way home
Nick: for the, for, for going on or not
Trey: going on going on?
Jude: I mean, okay.
Nick: I mean, you know, just this, it managed to, to, to, to reach the
spectacle level that I feel like, uh, infinity or reached in, in a
Spider-Man movie, you know what I mean?
Like, it definitely matched the spectacle of civil war as far as like
the amount of characters bringing in and like the amount of fan
service it did without overdoing it.
And the amount of like cheering moments that we had in the theater
matched, you know, infinity war.
And even in game two, I feel like just to some respect and, and they,
how they were able to meet our expectations, which almost never happens.
I feel like in, in MCU movies, you know, uh, a Festo, you know, but here we are,
you know, with Andrew Garfield and, uh, Toby McGuire and they did it so well.
Well,
Jude: you know what, and that's a really good point because you're
bringing in multiple characters, civil war brought in multiple characters.
I don't remember in civil war.
And I say this, like, I feel like I'm talking bad about civil war
and, you know, and, and, and I'm trying not to, but I don't remember
watching it and having those fan moments where everybody's like, yeah.
And cheer, you know, actually, I only remember seeing, go ahead,
Trey: finish your
thought
Jude: and that'll be, um, and both of them had to do a Spiderman
it said Queens
Spiderman.
But beyond that, you didn't have that kind of moment.
Um, th the way.
Trey: Dude.
I think coming in with that final nail in the coffin is, are we unanimous?
No way home, no way home,
Nick: not how I thought it was good to go.
Trey: Not in
Nick: this round.
I was like, this is going to be like the end.
We're going to have to put civil war against like no way home at
the end, but like, not this far up.
Jude: I know, I know the whole
Trey: Genesis of this idea of doing a bracket was right after no way
home came out, Jude and I wanted to do something with the trilogies.
And we were just like, is there really an episode?
Because all it's going to do is come down to captain America and Spiderman.
And so we were like, what if we pitted all the movies against each other?
Oh my gosh.
Well,
Nick: Oh, wait, this is a random question.
Okay, go ahead.
Do the, does that even refer to Steve Rogers as captain America after civil war?
Or do they just
Trey: call him?
Steve?
I think the recognition as Steve Rogers was exponentially
skyrocketed after civil war.
It's kind of like, how would we talk about with black widow people now refer to as
Natasha, not black widow kind of thing
Jude: in infinity war, they say vision.
I think vision said captain, captain Rogers.
Yeah.
Or something
Nick: and the cause of the call and captain Rogers, like captain America.
I wonder if they ever refer to it as captain America again.
Trey: Oh, I thought you were talking about like the general audience
you're talking about in narrative.
Nick: Yeah.
Like did they kill it?
Did they kill that character?
You know,
Trey: that's very interesting.
Do
Jude: those just attainment?
Prob probably so in game I'd have to rewatch it.
Darn.
Um, but I I'm, I'm guessing, I'm thinking that might've happened in end game.
Trey: Does it wasp say, all right, cap.
Well, I guess I could go cap Rogers or cap America.
Yeah.
Nick, this is a good question.
This is going to keep me, keep me occupied throughout the episode.
Nick: Also.
I'm also glad to know that, like I'm not the only one that just like puts end
game on, like just for I'm folding the laundry I put in game on like, oh yeah.
It's a comfort
Trey: movie for me all throughout the beginning of the pandemic in 2020, I
would just put on that final battle.
It was my comfort.
All right.
Getting back to the bracket.
The final of the first round we have Spider-Man far from home
and captain America, the first.
Nick, we're starting with you this time gonna hit that timer
at five minutes starting now.
Nick: Okay.
Going back to our earlier conversation, this is one, I feel
like we can't ignore captain America.
The first Avenger laying the groundwork for everything that
comes with the Avengers, everything that comes with Steve Rogers.
Um, I think far from home was really great.
I think there's some really great performances from J gellan hall.
I think there's a really great, um, like chemistry between those two.
Uh, you know, there's, there's a really great reveals was India and Mary Jane.
And that one, but we, I don't think we can ha I just don't think we can ignore
everything that captain America first Avengers set up to be paid off later by
Avengers movies by the captain America movies, uh, with inclusions of agent.
Uh, Hugo evening's amazing red skull.
I just, I got to give it to the cap on this
Trey: one.
I'm finding it hard to disagree with you.
Uh, and even outside of the candidate America fan boy,
I love far from home before.
No way home.
I had it as my favorite, as the discussion has circled back around to Spiderman.
I see the.
In far from home, despite still loving it because I love what it tackles with.
Mysterio.
You pointed out the chemistry between Jill and Holland
Holland, but counts in America.
If there's any one we're going to give a foundational piece to you.
You called it Hugo weaving, captain America, setting up the glorified pass,
setting up the present day, setting up.
Well, I wouldn't say set up, but Nick fury starting to take a more
prominent role outside of just in tags.
I think you make a strong case for first of injure for me.
Yeah.
Jude: I'm going to go Spider-Man far from home.
And the only reason why is, I feel like it's, I don't know if this is
breaking the rules, but I'm going to use this and there, but like
Catherine America, first Avenger.
And I think about Thor that did move.
There's a style and Thor that I've, that I feel like keeps going through
the MCU and in captain America first Avenger, that style wasn't there yet.
It was completely different.
Um, and they got away from that.
And, and so in that sense, it feels like they didn't really find itself.
And I do wonder if winter soldier wasn't as good as it was.
If cap would have actually had the place he had moving forward, you know?
Cause, cause he didn't really take off because of this movie.
Right.
It was what we see, I'd say an Avengers and civil war that the
civil war, a winter soldier.
And so because of that, I feel like you, now you get iron man and captain center
and age of Ultron and you're able to, to, to continue that thread through.
Um, but I don't think this movie.
Oh on its own, set that up.
I think it becomes better.
Uh, going back to it, do you think it
Nick: suffers as a period piece?
Jude: Does it suffer as a period piece?
That's a good question.
Uh,
Trey: or because it's a period piece, I guess.
Jude: Well, I, in some ways I'm going to say yes, right?
Uh, I think, I think because of that being a period piece, I know that
there's elements of it that I know, I didn't appreciate the first time around
because it just felt like it was quick.
Let's introduce this character.
We got to get to Avengers, you know, and it was part of that phase
of the MCU was more about just getting the character out there.
And I think they did a good job making it a period piece, you know, and
especially doing the, the montage of the punching Hitler over and over again.
But I know in watching it the first time around and I'm like, what are we doing?
Um, you know, and it wasn't until later.
And I was like, oh, okay.
Actually, this is very, very clever and very well done.
And I don't know if, if that had its full appreciation and its first run.
And so that's, again, part of that, you know, working out the kinks
and who knows maybe that helps it cause it had to work out the kinks.
But for me, uh, Spider-Man far from home is a really good entry
comparatively where captain America just rush of injuries, he gets better
because of previous later injuries.
Trey: All right.
I got an argument 20 seconds to go.
You talk about how captain America doesn't take off because of this movie.
And I agree, I think you're right.
I think it is one of those ones that retroactively becomes better.
If you surveyed people about what are, what's.
One of the biggest moments in the MCU I'll make this and we'll we'll move on.
We'll decide.
One of the biggest moments in the MCU is Rogers lifting.
I don't think that happens.
That a same effect without first Avenger starting with, with where Rogers is there.
So we're out of time.
I've got my argument in there in the last second.
We got to cast our vote.
I feel bad.
I want to give people time to respond, but also
Jude: no, no, we can vote.
I like, I know where I stand on.
I don't find that argument compelling that.
Okay.
Trey: Uh, Nick, you started this off.
Where's your vote, captain America, captain
Jude: America.
I'm sticking with Spiderman.
All
Trey: right.
Our first wow.
Vote captain America, the first vendors moving on now, before
Jude: we go in, the reason why I didn't find it compelling is I
would stick to my argument of what made that was the scene in Asia.
Well, there was a slight movement
Trey: I want to keep going, but I know we got to keep moving
Jude: my reasoning, my thoughts.
So, yeah.
Trey: Well, I, I was also going to bring in an argument about how, as much as I
love far from home, the Mysterio like, oh, framing, Peter Parker gets resolved
in like five minutes and no way home.
And then it doesn't become really a plot point.
It's like, oh, it's fucking going go.
We're not actually mad at you.
Happy though.
He had a really good lawyer, man.
Jude: That was far from home.
That was still at home.
Nick: Right.
The resolution.
Sorry.
Oh, that's what, that's what you were talking about, right?
Like the setup of the
Trey: like far from homes arc isn't carried over that much and no way home.
Also
Nick: Judy said something about like how it was just kind of like,
uh, uh, like when they had to get it out to take it to Avengers, but.
The captain America first Avenger is the best told origin story.
They'd take the most time.
I feel like he's a scrawny, Steve Rogers for a lot of that movie.
And like, they, I feel like they take the time to really tell that
story and set up that character in that more than any other origin film.
I, I think, and I think that's how I think I feel,
Jude: uh, I think I have to think about that.
Um, my, my initial reaction to that, as I said, okay, it would be, let's put
iron man, the verse one side by side.
Um, and only because you, you see him in the cave build the first suit, build the
next and tinker and work its way up and, you know, um, but yeah, I think that's,
I think that's pretty strong though,
Trey: right?
We're moving into the next round of face offs before we do, I do want
to take a moment to say goodbye to Spider-Man homecoming, iron
man, captain America, civil war.
And Spider-Man far from home Jude.
We're starting with you this time.
And we have in our next round and the revelation of our first bi-week
contender, which I think is deserving.
Captain America, the winter soldier versus Thor.
We've got five minutes starting now.
Jude: Uh, yes, this is super deserving.
Um, there's not much to say.
I mean, it's winter soldier.
I mean, like from this, it gives us a winter soldier, right?
Um, Bucky warrants, they gives us the Russo brothers.
It was of the MCU, the most of the MCU entries.
I think it was the most.
And that the, you know, the Edward Snowden thing happening.
And then again, I wasn't even really intentional.
It just kind of worked out that way.
And so they were able to take that character of captain America and really
put him into more contemporary issues and have that character make sense.
When you think about when and why that character, uh, was created and developed.
So hit it, put it, put it that one, I think was what really put
the MC on the map and really give it credit a lot of credibility.
Trey: It's hard to argue with that logic.
I mean, this, this feels like a, a beat-up unfilled as much as we praise the war
for all the things that it started being a foundational piece, giving us the
promise of the cosmic side of the MCU.
Captain America.
The winter soldier is.
Um, you know, we talk about the foundational pieces mixing metaphors, if
there was a Mount Rushmore of the MCU, I mean, winter soldier has to be up there.
I think it is perpetually in the top five of everyone's lists.
And so it's hard to pick against it here.
Yeah.
Nick: It's, it's really tough.
I was, I was trying to think of like, what were things that were
like missed in, in either movie?
Like what were things I didn't like about, um, you know, winter soldier,
you know, and it's, it's tough.
Like they, they do so much like good work.
And I think I love the chemistry between, um, black widow and Steve Rogers.
I think they did such a good job.
And without this movie and without you seeing what they go through,
like, it doesn't make sense in civil war when she kind of like
comes back, like and helps them out and, um, their relationship there.
And then they really should moving forward into, you know,
the, the last Avengers movies.
Like there's, there's a lot done to bridge a gap in that movie where it doesn't feel
like the sophomore slump, it doesn't feel like just story beats to get to the end.
There's so much development in the character, just there.
It's a, it's a really well paced movie, Robert Redford, I mean, incredible job.
Well,
Jude: and the ability to balance so many characters.
Um, I mean, when you Pierce fury, uh, cap Natasha, Sam Wilson, Bucky
marks, you know, I mean, we, we look at some of these other movies about
look how many characters they had.
They had a balance a lot here, introduce Falcon and Sam Wilson.
And they did a great job of that.
Introduce Sharon Carter.
Yeah.
Sharon Carter, like, like, like when you, when you, when you look at the
way that they, it was clearly a captain America movie, Right, but it's, it
was very ensemble and, and they were able to manage to do that without
having it feel like an ensemble.
Trey: I remember that's one of the things we talked about, where yeah.
Of the Avengers movie was the promise of phase one.
After that you get Ironman three pretty self-contained Thor, the
dark world, it's its own thing.
Captain America, the winter soldier showed us the universe coalescing
by bringing in Natasha, bringing in fury, setting up Falcon and paying
off storylines with Steve Rogers.
It's going to be hard to see what beats winter.
Oh, yeah.
What a soldier winter soldier.
We'll go ahead and move on.
We had about 40 seconds left, but we'll go ahead and call it there.
Jude: I'm sorry.
I'm surprised that that one took that much time.
Trey: So our next round or our next face-off, I should say,
starting with me this time.
It is between Ironman three and the surprise of the
bi-week Thor, the dark world.
We've got five minutes starting.
Now.
I know I've got a bias going into this because I do consider Ironman
three, one of like top five MCU films.
But it is interesting that we're seeing these two face off against
each other, because I think it is regarded as the lowest.
Of see you, right.
I'm going to, I, I know my vote.
I'm going to try and go to bat for Thor, the dark world here a little bit.
It, I don't think it's as bad as people have made it out to be.
I don't think it's a good door movie.
I think it's a good low-key movie, Garrett.
Like there's not enough low-key in it, but what they do and what they, I
don't even want to say rehabilitate, but what they are able to accomplish
and making him more sympathetic after what happened in the Avengers,
I think is definitely worth noting.
And without this movie, I don't think you get some of the emotional pieces
and end game where Thor I worthy and he was shocked by it after his depression
or the conversation with his mother about, you know, stop trying to be who
you're supposed to be and be who you are.
All that starts here in Thor, the dark one.
And it pays the way for low-key as well, the series, so that,
Jude: well, it's, it's interesting.
I just want to say this.
It is interesting how the MCA is able to take these movies that
I'm taking the Garmin too as well.
Would that, that as, not really well-regarded but like, no, that's
the one I'm going to grab and really dig into and pull forward.
So, yeah.
I don't know.
Nick, did you find them convincing?
No.
Trey: Is it me or your reception of the dark world?
Nick: I am like, I don't even hate the dark world.
I don't think it's not even my least favorite movie, but iron
man three is clearly the winner.
Trey: Yeah, we can, we can call it.
Like I said he was a stretch to try and argue for it.
I'm still iron man.
Three.
Nick: I think we could argue that, that Thor, the dark world isn't
as bad as, or we says it was.
I think we could argue that it's not a terrible movie.
I think we can argue that, but like, if you're putting it in a
bracket against iron man, We're moving iron man three along.
Jude: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I remember all
Trey: right, we're moving on.
We had two minutes and 30 seconds left, but we've got a clear winner here.
I know this is getting a little bit too much football for the podcast, but this
was like, this feels like when I play a team like sneaks in to the bi-week
and then immediately gets knocked out.
Jude: Yep.
Yeah.
All right.
It's the, it's the, uh, it's it's, as I think in college football, it's a
small schools of the world that have such a great season and make it into
the, you know, to a big bowl game.
And you're like, you really don't
Trey: belong here as a Steelers fan.
This has been the last eight years or so of this dealer's performance.
Jude: Oh man.
Trey: All right, moving on to the next match.
We've got Spiderman.
No way home versus iron man to Nick Sandy, we're starting with you.
And we've got five minutes on the clock starting now.
Nick: So Ironman to introduce.
Natasha Romanov in a very S silly manner.
Let's say it, it, uh, uh, I'm trying, I'm trying.
Hold on.
Where's
Trey: John Fabro.
Nick: It, uh, it brings in, uh, the new roadie yeah.
Jude: Brings in the new room.
Nick: I can't,
Trey: I can't, I think we got get, let's see a poster now for Ironman too, with
the tagline, it brings in the new road
Nick: and your tray.
I don't know if I'll catch you for this, but you know, Trey, that road is one of my
least favorite characters and MCU as well.
So I just, I can't, I just don't, I it's, it's no way home.
Jude: Yeah.
Um, my, to me, iron man, two biggest strong point is also its biggest weakness.
Uh, which is we get Sam Rockwell, but we haven't seen him again.
So yeah, I don't whatever.
Nick: Oh, these core teams that thought they had a chance,
Jude: my weeks
Trey: I'm trying to think.
And there's not.
Cause I remember there was a point when we were doing our iron man to review
where we were like up until this point.
It's not that bad of a movie and they've got something going
on and then it falls apart.
And even in trying to recall, yeah.
Monaco's where that movie falls apart.
A pot apart.
The worst word about this since this is on a timer, a lot of my, a lot of
the mess ups are just going to stay.
Nick: I was thinking about
Trey: that.
Oh man.
Yeah.
I'm not even going to try.
Spider-Man no way home.
We had three minutes left on the time.
Jude: Wow.
Nick: I think that will be the last of like the, the true upset
or that the true like quick, quick, like, no, uh, no arguing there.
Moving forward,
Trey: looking at the next one.
This one might, I can see this going either way.
This could be a quick one or this could be a fun one.
So next we have captain America, the first Avenger versus Thor,
Ragnarok, Jude, you're up first with five minutes starting now.
Jude: You know what?
Yeah.
Ragged rocks the best, uh, of these two.
Trey: So I got, I got to say despite the fact that Nick and
I were the ones to vote for it.
I love that it's coming back to you having the opening statement,
Jude: like, like, I, I can't, I, between these two, I can't be like, Hey, captain
America first or injured, you know, um, You know what Ragnarok gives us Korg.
It gives us hell a
Nick: party.
Thor.
It wouldn't have to give us party through her.
I did the tone of Ragnar rock.
I don't think would've, if it had been any other tone, it wouldn't
have gotten party for I'm just
Jude: saying that's that's fair.
Trey: I can see that 100%.
Jude: That's fair.
Captain America.
The first Avenger,
Trey: Nick, your checks in the mail.
No,
Jude: I will say, I will say this, like, like, like it is kind of.
Because we know through our love and Thunder's coming out.
If we didn't know Thor, 11 thunder was coming out, it's not a good,
this is kind of like civil war.
It's not a good trilogy finale because it is going right
into infinity war, you know?
So that has it.
You don't feel it's wrapped up, if that makes sense.
And it takes infinity war, seeing new Asgard and seeing them move
on and, and those types of things.
And so you don't really feel like that story's done tonally.
It feels more MCU than captain America, first Avenger.
So.
So, so that's, that's the thing about that, where it makes it really
makes it difficult when you start thinking in terms of trilogy, but
Thor, Ragnarok was just so well done and just a fun movie in a fun entry.
Yeah.
I still gonna stick with Thor and I don't have a very strong argument.
I, I realize that I'm sticking with
Trey: Nick.
You and I were both on the first Avenger train.
Is there anything that you would pick it over Ragnar?
Nick: The only thing is, you know, taking a movie like first Avenger,
like we were talking about like the origin story, the first in his versus
like pitting it against Thor's fifth appearance in a mainline movie.
Like it's so hard.
Like you spend so much time with that character.
And so like, of course, like you love that movie because you love the character after
spending so many years with him versus like, you know, like talking about G the
first time you saw captain America and you're like, you know, it's gotten better,
but you know, you've had all the time now to, to, to, to be with, or to go into
Ragnar rock and be like, this is great.
I love this character I've seen and do all these things and going forward.
But I don't think that though, that comparison can still make
Thor not be a better movie.
And not move on.
Like it was so funny.
It was so fun.
Like the style of it was great.
Like the introduction of chord was great.
Uh, Valkyrie was so good and Grandmaster, yeah.
Having a whole, not be smart home, but like, you know, have him talking more
in, in his, in his whole form and all that, that set up for Bruce banner to
moving forward, you know, there's but you also, you know, you're right too,
that it does do so much more setting up for infinity war and end game to that.
It's tough.
It's not a good button up as far as the trilogy goes, but as far
as the movie goes, and if you stop it like right at the end, right.
When they're on the ship and just like roll credits, it's great.
Then, then it could be a button up and they're often space.
To have multiple adventures and that it's done.
And then we can just kind of not remember, like if you just stop it, like right
before that shadow comes over, it's fine.
It's
Jude: fine.
Trey: Yeah.
Yeah.
I think as much as I would love for the first vendor to move on, we don't
have Chris Hemsworth still without Ragnar rock for all the whispers.
He was ready to call it quits Taika Waititi, like breathed new
life into the Thor franchise.
It's, it's almost like an inverse of the captain America.
Like what captain America did to set up from the beginning.
Thor was able to restart at the end of its trilogy.
So I think I would go at Ragnar rock for sure.
Jude: Yeah.
And now that was a good way to put it to the restart at the end.
Trey: All right.
Well, we had seven seconds left, so are we all in agreement?
Jude: Yeah, I think we're all in agreement.
I do find it interesting that at this point, Of the trilogies.
We still have representation from all.
Oh wow.
You're right.
Cause yeah.
Cause at first Avenger came across in Thor would have been completely out, but, and
Nick: it's the third one except for we're soldier.
Jude: Ooh.
Trey: All right.
Well moving us into almost the semi-finals.
We're going to go ahead and say goodbye to Thor, Thor, the dark
world, iron man, and captain America.
The first Avenger.
Is it me this time?
I forgot who, who, okay, so starting with me, we have captain America,
the winter soldier versus iron man.
Three, five minutes on the clock starting now.
Oh, no, for all, for all the healing I thought I did from having to pick
iron, ran over iron man three on TKs now enforced between these tiers.
I love iron man three with all my heart.
I love what it does for Tony.
I think it propels Tony through the final act of the infinity saga, but I think the
MCU owes a lot to what the Russo brothers did starting with winter soldier, moving
into civil war, infinity war in game.
I can't think of, I can't think of a reason not to give it to the winter.
It's.
Yeah.
I mean, even going by my own personal rankings, winter soldier
is always up there in the one or two spot and Ironman threes three.
So yeah, I think I'd, I think I would go winter soldier here in this one.
Nick: I love Shane black.
I think he tells like such a great story.
I think he's got a really way of like visually telling stories
that are really, really well.
And, um, like the way he chooses shots and the way he, I think about like that
shot of Tony in the snow, like after he's like crashed and everything like that.
And even him like pulling his arm or like the way that he's able to
visually tell a story, as well as, um, like through the characters I
think is, is really, really great.
And I think he.
A really different feel, a really intimate feel to a very large stage, which I
think is really difficult to do, uh, especially this, you know, this late
into the game being the third movie.
Um, and he was able to kind of really bring us in, uh, to tell a really
interesting Tony stark story under the guise of, you know, an iron man costume.
And I think that has to be acknowledged, you know, as far as, um, maybe it
wasn't pushing the story forward, but it was such a good character study
of the, of Tony stark, the character.
And I think Shane black did a really great job doing that.
Um, and him like seeing himself in the, the, the young, the kid that he, you know,
he meets and him being able to impart that wisdom and him fighting, uh, about his
love has real, you know, love with pepper and, and, and throughout that thing.
And then, you know, the big fight at the end with all
the, the armors and, but even.
How much, I really appreciate what Shane black is able to do until that story.
I still think we're just soldier as an MC movie has to move on as the better
Jude: movie, I'm going to take everything.
Nick said that was good about iron man three and stop right before you go
into captain America, winter soldier, and say, because we're thinking as a
trilogy face-off and iron man three is the final of a trilogy, you know?
And, and, and you think about trilogies.
This is what we're building up to in this end.
And how well they completed it and wrapped it up.
I think that's why it has to, it's better.
It has to go on because in here you had, the second entry of
this trilogy is, is the best one.
And then it's got this far, you know, I, I don't remember people
wildly excited about captain America, winter soldier coming out.
Because, okay.
You just, you had these, but there wasn't that same excitement as you
had for, um, and iron man movie, you know, or even for civil war.
Um, but even for that, and it wasn't just captain America, that was about
getting to see the civil war and the heroes fight and each other in that sense.
So I, 100% agree with you on how much captain America,
winter soldier is a solid movie.
Um, but thinking in terms of this also in the context of a trilogy, um, what iron
man three does for that trilogy, that winter soldier I would say does for the
MCU and not necessarily for the trilogy is why iron man three has to go, oh, crap.
Um,
Nick: I almost had to use my, like my swear card for the guest to say bad
word, because that's how I feel right
Trey: now.
That was a good argument because you're right.
If we're in for analyzing these on a trilogy basis, I think
Ironman three gets the edge.
Yes,
Jude: the timer.
Nick: That was the most perfect.
Jude: Perfect.
Nick: Oh my
Jude: gosh.
We got to
Trey: vote.
I'll start
Jude: with Jude.
I would say my vote is Ironman three.
Oh.
Trey: And this is
Jude: what I love about this is that people with people don't see that I
get to see is, is Nick Sandy's hands.
Cut it up his face in his face, in his hands.
I'm just like, oh, I was
Nick: literally about to say, this was one of those one times, like the medium.
If they could see the looks on our
Trey: faces right there, I have a feeling.
They can hear it, feel it, they could feel it through the speakers.
I okay.
But we got to cast her vote.
I propose do we want to have Jude count down to three?
And we both say it aloud to see where we sure.
Jude: Ready?
Okay.
Here we go.
Countdown to like three to one,
Trey: uh, 3, 2, 1, we say it.
All right.
3, 2, 1.
We say it.
All right.
You ready?
Nick?
Alright.
Jude: Three, two.
Trey: we're going to get so much hate online.
Jude: When I think about the multi-verse of madness episode that we did and
following it with this one, this is,
Trey: that argument was so compelling.
Nick: Oh my gosh.
Trey: Yup.
Regardless how this shakes off, dude, I think that might be the case or
the best argument of the episodes.
Agreed.
Hey,
Nick: I just was adding fuel to the fire too.
Like, I wasn't even,
Trey: this is going to be one of those ones.
That's extra fun to listen back to you.
Cause it's a different experience being here, but once you're just passively
listening to it, I can't wait to see the seeds that get dropped well.
Jude: Yeah.
Cause there's also, you can think back and be like, oh, why didn't I say this?
Or why didn't I say that?
I
Nick: remember like, I think my first episode you guys asked me,
like in my team capper team, iron man, and I was like, yeah, team cap.
And then here we are 10 episodes later
Trey: or whatever it is, this is finally your payback for all
the team catch-ups I've been
making
Jude: what?
The jest, just
Trey: captain America has been completely wiped off the books.
Oh my gosh.
Wow.
All right.
Let's see if we can find a contender for iron man.
Three, moving into the next round.
We're coming back to you, Nick.
We've got Spiderman.
No way home versus Thor, Ragnarok five minutes on the clock starting now.
Nick: Okay.
I'm trying to take off my rose tinted glasses of just seeing,
you know, no way home was one of the most recent movies I just saw.
I saw it with my son and he loved it because he loves Spiderman and just
trying to like, remove that and just think of them as far as movies go.
Oh, it's so hard coming off that argument for iron man, because a lot of those
same arguments can be put here, uh, on that, on that movie to remind me
is the same director through all the
Trey: Spider-Man movies.
Yes.
Sean Watts that's worth something.
That's worth something.
No other trilogy has had the same director, right.
Nick: And for him to come through and tell that whole story.
And to have it be so impactful on the MCU at large on the multi-verse at large.
And then still being able to button it up in a way that if there was never another
MCU Spider-Man movie, it would be okay.
And button it up in the way that they could bring him back in at
any time and have it be okay.
Even if it wasn't Tom Holland, because they wouldn't know who he is.
Yeah.
But Ragnar rock is, it was really fun.
And, but it's, you know, going back to that, Herman had three argument
as far as the trilogy rules go.
Uh, no way home, I think would be my vote moving forward.
Jude: Yeah.
I had my, my big thing, same argument, but my big thing is what I come
back to think about Ragnar rock.
It is, it's so much fun, but I feel like for me, that's the
only thing it has going for it.
Not the only, that's pretty strong.
The kind of guy gets going that way since they're trying to make a case between
two movies, but that's, that's say the biggest thing it has going for it.
Let's put it that way easily.
It's strength.
Yeah.
And so for that reason, it's just like, you know, well, and to add
to that, it let's put it this way.
Um, it feels like, like, I think you mentioned like a, a
rebirth or a restart of Thor.
And so it feels like a first movie, the first entry, you know, especially, you
know, it'd be interesting if they do something after throw 11 thunder and
we get like, uh, uh, Taika trilogy, um, and, and not trying to make that part of
the argument, I just popped in my head.
I'm like, oh, that'd be interesting to see.
But yeah, it feels like a standalone to
Trey: me.
Yeah.
I can see that logic if we're going by evaluating these as a true.
We, I mean, we set it in the very first round Spiderman.
No way.
Home is one of the few NC MCU movies to have as conclusive
of an ending as this does
Nick: while still affecting the entire multi-verse the entire mainline universe.
It, it affects all of that.
Trey: Yeah.
And I mean, even speaking of the, multi-verse like just
getting some multi-verse representation in these discussions.
We've had three depictions of it, so.
Coin flip Loki and no way home, I think are the best to pictures of the
multi-verse so far that we've gotten.
No, I know that Loki's not in this particular, but it is.
I think it's a merit of no way home to attribute to it.
And I think what's pushing me over the line and I'm glad you brought this up.
It's the John Watts completing the trilogy factor.
I think that is something that definitely needs to be heavily into consideration
here because it is not often that there is consecutive directorial
managing for an awkward way to put it.
So yeah, my vote right now is no way home.
Are we in agreement?
I think so.
50 seconds left.
So I think that's a good time to.
Jude: Yep.
I think, I think we, I think we got it.
Trey: All right.
We're moving into the final, but before we do, I do want to say goodbye to
captain America, the winter soldier and Thor, Ragnarok, which brings us to.
Iron man three.
I
Jude: love it.
I'm such a big smile on my face right now versus
Trey: my her man.
No way.
Nick: I'm sorry.
I'm not
Trey: starting this one.
All right, Mr.
Smiles, you got five minutes.
Here we go.
Starting now
Jude: I'm actually going to go with Ironman three
Trey: and that is a sound
Jude: bite.
So
here's why if again, for going, Trilogy's the complete story we get here.
Um, and I, and I admit, I there's a little bit of bias on me on this one, but you
did get again, go back to that complete story, but with Spider-Man no way home.
I remember I personally didn't like the everyone forgets memory, you
know, I don't feel like in terms of like character growth that actually,
I felt like you had that ending.
So you can Sony and Marvel studios has some options rather than like, what is the
best thing and growth for this character.
Um, and, and I get people's, you know, I hear all the time, oh, the
sacrifice, and nobody knows you and how alone you feel and stuff.
And I, and I, and I get all that.
Um, it just, I just can't get past that.
This gives the studios an out, you know, feeling and, and I w I would like
to see, you know, um, well, I mean, you're getting out of high school.
You're about to go to college and you're maturing, and it's like taking
this responsibility for the actions.
And so it just still had that feel of, of I'm going to use.
Magic or whatever means to fix it, you know?
Um, and so, yeah, so in that sense, uh, I don't think that's the strongest of
arguments, if that makes sense, but like, that's why I would go with iron man three.
Trey: I I'll step in here.
And Jude, I think it's very fitting that in this face off Ironman three
has made it in the finals because whenever I think about our podcast,
our iron man three or view perpetually is one of my favorite ones because
of how glowing of a review we get.
Like, I think the affection we have for that movie is what helped
spark this podcast for all the praises that you give iron man.
And even though I see the flaws and no way home, what you're talking about
with the studios, making everyone happy, kind of redoing some of the
same story arcs about sacrifice, but.
No way home to me is in terms of movies is a miracle that had happened.
There's no way it should have worked as well as it did 20 year
payoffs having as many characters and studio melding as it did.
And it's still come away as moving as it was.
And not just pure fan service, there's totally a bunch of fan
service, but it, it balances it so well with telling a meaningful story.
So in my eyes, it does with iron man three.
While juggling the popcorn, pleasing aspect of what these movies have
at their objectives as well.
So I'm, I'm feeling no way home.
I think that's fair, Nick.
Nick: Uh, one of the, you know, they always talk about like,
who's the best Peter Parker.
Who's the best vitamin.
Who's the best Bruce Wayne.
Who's the best Batman, you know, and the thing about the Spider-Man
Tom Holland thing was like, the other thing that everyone said was
he has too much at his disposal.
Like he has the money from all the Tony stark stuff.
So like he can't be the best buyer demand and no way home remedies.
All that, you know, it, it does put them alone and it puts them in, in
like comic book, accurate clothing.
It puts them in contact with accurate place, you know, like he,
for a long time had his, his secret entity, even from the Avengers.
Like he kind of in a way, you know, talking about Thor, I was like the re
refresh, like in the third, like this kind of does that for him as well.
If you're thinking about it in the, you know, the, the big, huge picture too,
like it sets them up to be a different Spider-Man than has ever been seen before.
Here, uh, and maybe like the best spider man, if you take away the thing that
people were saying, you know, was bad about him and it does do such a nice
job of buttoning any of the trilogy and even in almost the opposite way
the Ironman does, you know, we've talked about like how iron man is
such an intimate look at Tony stark.
And it really brings the focus down on like the smaller level, uh, no
way home, does it opposite as opening up some multi-verse having all these
different characters in it, maybe making it like a Peter Parker and Spider-Man
movie across multiple universes.
And so it's, it's, it's almost a taste thing like which, which did
you like, did you like the, the nice, the storytelling of, of, uh, of a
single singular character or the giant multi versatile tearing spiral?
I mean, Oh, man.
Trey: I'm glad that Nick got to give the closing argument because he
was adamant about not wanting to be
alright.
It's time to vote.
I'll come in first.
My votes.
No way home.
Jude: I'm going to stick with our band three.
Nick: Thanks.
Jude: oh my
Trey: God.
That's your first Nick Santi.
Trump.
Jude: That's fantastic.
I'd like to thank me for doing the music.
Trey: You can find more of my work.
Not answering this question.
Jude: Oh no.
Nick: Oh no.
Trey: It's okay.
And it's a fill in the role that you did last time.
Nick has got his fingers pinched on his forehead, looking down.
Oh
Nick: man.
Oh man.
The better trilogy movie is dang it.
This is where all the time I was going to go like this, episode's
going to end up being two hours long.
Cause it was just Nick, Sandy, like looking at doubt, trying
not to answer this question.
Trey: I love it.
It milk it.
We're here at the finale.
Keep the people waiting.
Nick: This is so tough.
Like
Jude: it's in your hands.
I just
Trey: stepped into,
Nick: uh, I really, I'm not trying to stir the pot this time.
This was like the episode that I didn't want to stir the pot.
And we're not talking about catching trucks or everything like that.
We're bringing you down to who closed out the trilogy in a better way.
Was it Spider-Man or iron man?
Was it?
Oh man, this is a really tough one.
I'm going to go.
Spider-Man
Jude: yeah, I had a feeling that's where you're going ahead of feeling this re
Nick: it was tough.
I had to think about the emotional damage that I took from, from watching
spanning man versus the emotional damage I took from watching iron
Jude: man.
No, and that's fair.
That's that's, you know, I mean, for me, when you think about movies, there
is this element of, um, directors, that's their job to manipulate you to
feel something, you know what I mean?
You know, to feel something.
And so that's completely fair.
Trey: And if I would, I know, cause we're kind of in the
debrief section of this now.
So I guess we can go over a little time, but thinking about it now that
there's no pressure of a timer, I had to work up to iron man three.
I hated it on my curse viewing.
So I think that's something, even though I didn't articulate that,
like I think that is something worth noting too, between these as well.
No way home.
I was in, I loved it from the beginning.
Yeah.
Jude: Yeah.
See, and I, I enjoyed Ironman three in the first watch.
Um,
Nick: so I also hated iron man three on the first watch too.
So
Jude: I thought it was great.
So yeah.
Dang, that's
wild.
Trey: That, that was so much fun.
It was,
Jude: it was, uh,
Trey: were there any, go ahead.
Jude: I said, did you want to run down the bracket one time
real quick and the results?
Trey: All right.
So in the first round we had.
Man homecoming versus Thor.
Thor moved on.
We had iron man vs.
Iron man, three iron man, three moved on.
We had, Spider-Man no way home versus captain America, civil war, where
Spider-Man no way home moved on.
And then we had Spider-Man far from home versus captain America, the first vendor.
Okay.
I'm going to peel back the curtains a little bit.
I have to click on each individual bracket because it doesn't show me the full title.
So that is stumbling.
So moving onto the next round, we had Thor versus counted America, the winter
soldier, where winter soldier moved on iron man, three versus Thor, the dark
world where Ironman three moved on.
Spider-Man no way home versus iron man too.
Wasn't that?
Our shortest decision?
Jude: I think so.
I think so.
Trey: Uh, no way home.
Canton Mary, the first Avenger versus Ragnar rock.
And of course Spiderman, no way home would face off against Ragnar rock and
move into the finals with the winter soldier versus Ironman three with iron
man three, moving into the finals only to be defeated by Spider-Man no way
were there any surprises?
Uh,
Jude: you know what, I, I will say this.
It would be interesting to see how it would turn out if it was seated different.
Um, because there's movies that I know, I feel comfortable using that
strong of language that I know would not have got out of the first year
if it wasn't for the randomization.
But I love that because that's what that part of what made it
so unique of like already first round, like there were stakes,
Trey: every lead needs, a Cleveland brown.
What about you, Nick?
Where there any surprises?
On your end throughout this, I guess,
Nick: no, because, because I know you guys, because I'm
listening for a long time.
Like I knew the iron man three had like a more prominent
position in our, in our hearts.
Like all of us, like, uh, upon like second, third and
fourth, you know, watches.
Um, so I'm, I'm not really surprised that it made it that far.
I guess it, it, the it's surprising that they were all, they came down to the four.
Third movies, except for captain America.
I thought that was kind of interesting, you know, um, I guess it just, you
know, it shows that, you know, when you have that time to really bring
out the character, that usually you can do it and except for captain
Eric, which that was interesting to me, that civil war didn't go as far
as I, I guess I thought it would.
I
Trey: think that's a very unique take to, to pull out from that of, I mean, it's
a Testament to your, the winter soldier of how strong that second injury was.
Jude: Oh yeah.
Well, and one of the things I also would like to get, it was random, but with Thor
and Spider-Man, we got the first entries.
And no way home and civil war, the third entries heads up.
So I'm, I'm do, I am glad it worked out that way.
Um, I do find it interesting that we had to too very early on between iron man and
iron man three eliminate one, um, from its own truly, you know, from its own trilogy.
Um, cause I, I feel like depending on who it went up against iron man
could have gone to the next round.
Um, and so, and so having, I think is that the only one
where it went up against itself?
I think so.
Trey: That's my favorite matchup.
I think iron man, iron man three that really tested our metal.
Yeah.
Let's think about a, what if scenario?
Let's say we went iron man, iron man beats dark world.
Does iron man beat the winter soldier?
No,
Jude: I don't think I gut reaction.
I'm thinking of.
But that's a gut reaction without hearing what you all say and really
thinking about which one would I want to, which one would I want to argue
for and, and what that would be?
Nick: Yeah, I'd probably say when I told you it's still move on.
It's such a, it's such a great movie.
It's it's a good spy movie.
Good action movie.
Good.
Current comic movie.
Yeah.
Trey: I, I, winter soldier, I think it would move on.
That's a very interesting Linwood of I'll chime in.
I, for me, and I'm so glad it was the first one biggest surprise as homecoming.
I was like, when we were doing this episode, there was a pardon me.
I was like, okay, this is supposed to be the answer of not being a quick episode
when we decided to do the trilogies.
And so whenever Thor goes up against homecoming, I'm like, oh man, are we
just going to breeze through this again?
And that was the first table turn of the episode.
So homecoming not moving on was the biggest surprise
of this for me so far, you
Jude: know?
And, and again, I, I made it, I made the argument for Thor,
but like between the two.
I love homecoming.
I do.
But you know, when I, when I try to think of it in the context of the
trilogies and, and what it does and what it does for the MCU, I just
felt myself leaning towards Thor.
Trey: Well, I think that's going to put us into our tournament bracket.
We do have Spiderman, no way home as our winner, but as a way to close out
this episode, I thought it would be fun to try and go on the record and predict
which of these two coming movies and men of the WASC quantum mania coming
out February 17th, 2023, or guardians of the galaxy volume three on it May 5th,
20, 23 has a shot to beat no way home.
I'll start with you this time.
Nick would, uh, what's your gut reaction here?
Nick: My, I don't, I love Paul Rudd.
He's like, I just want to be as best for.
Like, I just, he's so charming.
And so I just, my wife talks about my man crush on him all the time.
Trey: I feel like I remember you talking about that on the,
what if zombies epicenter,
Nick: what I worry about with, uh, with, um, uh, ant man on the Wasserman, the
quantum mania is that it'll do the same thing that Ragnar rock did that civil
war did is that we'll set up something moving forward, rather than buttoned up
the story with guardians of the galaxy.
I could see that kind of like buttoning everything up with that
being such an ensemble movie on its own, just, you know, with everyone's
contract and everything like that.
But I just don't, I don't think it'll, I don't think it'll have, there was no
I say, yeah, I think it'll be great.
And I think it would be great.
And then I think it'll be good to having to see what's going to
happen with that team and, uh, see what's going to happen with, um,
Gomorrah if she's going to come back.
But I, I just don't think it'll have the payoff.
The way home did.
So I don't think, I don't think it will be able to dethrone so
Trey: neither of them.
Oh, wow.
Jude: I, I, I do agree though, that, of those two, I feel like the guardians three
would be what would make a good challenge.
Um, I loved that man loved eight man, and the wasp.
I truly enjoyed those.
A great, I think MCU entries, um, outside of the intact it, man, the wash pretty
much could stand alone like it, in terms of like moving forward, you know, um, of
course you needed some awards, the house arrest, I get that, but it was just fun.
There they were, you know, they were what we needed and what James Gunn was
able to do with the second guardians.
Um, which I think is a better movie than the first guardians I had.
You know, just as a movie volume, two is far better and.
Better entries in the MCU or motor the way I put it is like guardians
of galaxy one was a fun movie.
It was probably more fun than guardians galaxy too, but Guardian's
galaxy too was a far better story, you know, and with having James Gunn
treat them to complete that trilogy.
Um, I just trust him to do a really good job, uh, with,
with wrapping up that story.
So
Trey: I'm going to come in with, starting with ant man and the wasp quantum mania.
I recognize this is my own bias.
I'm kind of done with the multi-verse for awhile.
And quantum mania feels like it might be dabbling in the multi-verse.
So as much as I love Paul Rudd, as much as I, as much as I love what they're doing
with ant man and the wasp, and potentially what's going to be happening with Cassie
and all of that gang back together.
So much of the arguments we made throughout this trilogy bracket
was the completing the story.
James Gunn, I think has such a.
Understanding of what he's doing with the guardians to the point
it's already been definitive.
This is the end of this makeup of the guardians of the galaxy.
This is the conclusion of their story.
If anybody's going to go up against no way home it's gardens the galaxy volume three.
Yeah.
And with this.
Would this be the contender for a director that got to complete his
ant man, the same director all the way through yes, it is paid read.
Right.
Okay.
Well that makes it a very interesting of the three, all the three trilogy director.
Well,
Jude: and I, and I think each time for a man and Batman man, the wash,
but that's the other thing where it's like I say that gut feeling.
I think both of those were, I think better than a lot of people were expecting.
Um, and, and both times.
So if that trend continues,
Nick: wow, it's interesting that those two are the same director too, and
there's gotta be something to that.
You know,
Trey: I love how that all shakes out.
It's interesting to find the little narrative threads that came out
through this bracket in terms of like the real world scenarios.
Oh yeah.
Well, I think that's gonna.
That was a very fun inaugural episode for the tournament bracket.
Nick, I want to say thank you so much for joining us because this is easily.
One of my favorite episodes.
Thanks for joining for the discussions,
Nick: the heartbreak and the irony of, uh, you know, me coming in as a counselor to
help you guys work out your problems and have to do that type regular at the end.
I just, my heart is
Jude: broken.
Yeah, but I, I love that.
It was, you had to do the tie-breaker.
I think it was great.
Trey: I can't, I
Nick: can't say that you somehow set me up for this, but I feel like somehow
Jude: I get set up.
There was no intentional setup.
I
specifically
Trey: said I randomized it on the podcast.
So
Nick: thank you guys so much for having me.
I always love coming on and I just want to say a special hi to
Trey's mom, just cause, um, I'm just glad you listened to it.
And I hope that this has been a fun episode for you to
Trey: sing this, that if you need to, well, I know why your
Jude: mom
Trey: is because my mom said you're her face.
Jude: Oh, really?
He's H he's angling for the MC.
You need to know t-shirt that's what.
Trey: I felt like that was going to come into play at some
point, but I forgot about it.
And so that was a perfect placement on here.
Well, if you want to keep up with my mom's favorite guest of MC, you need
to know, make sure you're following Nick on Twitter at Nick underscore
Sandy, or you can check out their wonderful photography work at Nick
underscore Sandy 2, 5, 3 on Instagram.
And of course, if you wanna keep up with this show and give us some feedback
on what you thought of this trilogy bracket, and you can always reach us at
MC you need to know both on Twitter and Instagram, it's a great place to help
shape the show as well as get to weigh in on what you thought of these episodes.
Jude: Yeah.
Another way to weigh in is to go ahead and give us a call, leave us a
voicemail, maybe get you a voice on the pod and tell us who you thought should
have when the best trilogy, you know, and of course, discord community and.
Best thing you can do for us is to share with a friend, leave a rating and
review, um, to encourage others, to have
Trey: a listen.
Yeah.
We'd also like to thank Nick Sandy for the use of our theme song, which is
his rendition of the Avengers theme.
You find more of his work in a SoundCloud, which is linked in the show notes as well.
Well, that's going to do it.
Thank you so much for listening.
Jude, Nick, thank you so much for doing this.
Jude: Thank you, Trey.
Yeah.
Thank you for being back
Trey: anytime.
We'll see you all next week.
Nick: Sweet.
Yeah.
May 31st.
Great.
That's great.
Now, Dubai.
Anyways.
Sorry to be real.
Trey: Yeah, no, that's totally fine.
I just love how it comes.
Full circle.
You're on
Jude: our pod.
It's
Trey: okay.
This is derail the POS.
Jude: Chop that down as an
idea.
Trey: Oh, I thought you were quoting always sunny in Philadelphia.
Jude: No, I'm just saying, jot that down as an idea of derail the pod
Trey: derail the pod.
Oh shoot.
Now I'm, that's gotta be a game somehow.
Like it's two hosts.
A guest comes in.
There's a certain thing that has to be done.
How quick does it take to derail the podcast?
There's something there there's something there for sure.
Are you writing it in a click up?
No,
Nick: we played that in, in AP government once, like, you know, try
to create a sustaining government.
And then there were two anarchists that were like unnamed.
They were trying to keep everybody from creating a sustainable government.
It was fun.
Not hard, but okay.
No, it was not hard at all.
I was saying, I guess then it was, it took five minutes and we were
all playing a big booty on the floor
Jude: and it was like, I mean, Yeah.
I mean, first off, I've never played big booty, but also, I
mean, in terms of government, the moment you enter free choice into
it, like all hell goats happens.
Trey: There are so many great things right now.
But if the thing that's coming to mind is if you could go to the
beginning of this podcast and tell me at some point, my cousin would
say, no, I've never played big booty.
So casually.
Nick: It's a camp game, you know, like counting it's, it's fun.
It's really great.
It's really fun.
Jude: All the kids love it.
Big butts and I can't deny
oh, that can be dangerous for that.
Nick: That's a very dangerous thing.
Trey: Oh my God.
That's great.
All right.
Are we, I think I'm good.
I think we're good.
Okay.
Here we go.
Wait, could you hear that?
Jude: That was booty release.
Nick: That was my son for as
well.
Trey: Oh, is everything okay?
Yeah.
I hope that was picked up on the microphone, because with your
permission, that would be a really funny,
Jude: oh, the leach version of Trey going, like, is that a cat?
No, that's my kid.
Trey: I forgot what, oh my God.
We're so derailed.
There was another point where one of your kids interrupted the podcast early, early
on in the, before we even had guests.
And I was like, is that a cat?
So there's a running theme of
Jude: me thinking kids are kids.
Trey: I believe so.
I forgot how I came across it, but it was so funny.
Oh
Nick: my goodness.
Okay.
Everyone everyone's out of the bathroom.
Should we get to go?
All right, here we
Trey: go.