1 01:00:00,300 --> 01:00:04,433 Hello and welcome. This is Episode 30 of Yves Just 2 01:00:04,433 --> 01:00:08,433 Chatting and today's topic is based on 3 01:00:08,433 --> 01:00:12,666 user requests, based on some previous podcasts, and based on 4 01:00:12,666 --> 01:00:17,033 some discussions on LinkedIn and other platforms lately and 5 01:00:17,033 --> 01:00:20,166 the discussion or the topic for the day is how comdivision 6 01:00:20,166 --> 01:00:22,533 became a global employer. And I 7 01:00:22,533 --> 01:00:23,933 want to give you a bit of a background, 8 01:00:24,233 --> 01:00:28,066 comdivision by itself is a professional services company. 9 01:00:28,666 --> 01:00:33,333 And as such we have been operating primarily in EMEA 10 01:00:33,333 --> 01:00:37,266 and in the US for the last couple of years, and 11 01:00:37,266 --> 01:00:41,933 for those two territories, we primarily use, 12 01:00:41,933 --> 01:00:44,666 besides employees, freelance 13 01:00:44,666 --> 01:00:47,666 resources, but we were more or less limited 14 01:00:48,033 --> 01:00:50,566 to people which we had either directly in 15 01:00:50,566 --> 01:00:52,966 the US or which we had in Germany, Austria, 16 01:00:53,933 --> 01:00:57,833 Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands, so more or less just 17 01:00:57,833 --> 01:01:00,433 around where our offices were located 18 01:01:00,866 --> 01:01:03,566 Last year we started on a journey 19 01:01:03,566 --> 01:01:06,966 to expand our team primarily for 20 01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:11,366 Architects and Consultants, and we're looking for new people 21 01:01:11,366 --> 01:01:14,233 to join us on the team, whether it was on freelance 22 01:01:14,233 --> 01:01:19,233 whether it was as an FTE (full-time employee) or anything 23 01:01:19,233 --> 01:01:22,266 in between, no matter what people were looking for. And 24 01:01:22,266 --> 01:01:26,366 we were of the opinion that we would be primarily looking 25 01:01:26,366 --> 01:01:28,166 in the US and actually find 26 01:01:28,166 --> 01:01:30,833 some good resources in the US. So 27 01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:33,333 we started campaigning on 28 01:01:33,333 --> 01:01:36,199 social media and other platforms and 29 01:01:36,199 --> 01:01:40,066 very soon we figured out that a lot of the candidates who 30 01:01:40,066 --> 01:01:41,866 actually apply to us were not 31 01:01:41,866 --> 01:01:45,666 necessarily coming out of the US primarily. 32 01:01:45,733 --> 01:01:48,033 Back then we started to look into 33 01:01:48,033 --> 01:01:50,433 different options, because trying to employ people 34 01:01:50,633 --> 01:01:54,199 Globally is not as easy as it sounds. Several countries have 35 01:01:54,199 --> 01:01:56,133 requirements that you need to have: 36 01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,466 either a local subsidiary or 37 01:01:59,466 --> 01:02:01,866 something else. One of the 38 01:02:01,866 --> 01:02:04,500 things which we learned very soon is that 39 01:02:04,666 --> 01:02:07,566 you can work around that scenario with 40 01:02:07,566 --> 01:02:10,066 something which is called an employee of record. 41 01:02:10,066 --> 01:02:12,266 There are several companies out there 42 01:02:12,533 --> 01:02:14,566 globally who provide these types of 43 01:02:14,566 --> 01:02:18,566 services and the advantage of working with 44 01:02:19,133 --> 01:02:21,833 EoRs is also that they 45 01:02:22,166 --> 01:02:25,933 do a lot of the local paperwork you can basically enter all 46 01:02:25,933 --> 01:02:28,433 the information about the employees you want to hire -- 47 01:02:28,433 --> 01:02:31,733 from a salary, benefits, and everything else perspective. 48 01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:34,400 They more or less give you the total cost for 49 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:35,833 the company and everything else. 50 01:02:36,266 --> 01:02:40,300 So it's, in this modern day and age, actually much easier as 51 01:02:40,300 --> 01:02:42,633 a company to make this work 52 01:02:43,366 --> 01:02:45,666 based on the fact that we have been 53 01:02:46,566 --> 01:02:47,833 running as 54 01:02:48,966 --> 01:02:50,300 Multinational company for many 55 01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:52,466 years with our US and EMEA operation, 56 01:02:52,500 --> 01:02:55,666 we were already pretty used to having people work in 57 01:02:55,666 --> 01:02:57,800 different time zones and in different geos. 58 01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,733 So that was not necessarily anything new for us. 59 01:03:00,866 --> 01:03:03,433 But the onboarding and hiring process 60 01:03:03,433 --> 01:03:07,066 by itself became very interesting. The 61 01:03:08,099 --> 01:03:12,166 good or, I would even say, the interesting part which we 62 01:03:12,166 --> 01:03:14,733 learned out of this as a company was that 63 01:03:15,466 --> 01:03:17,433 hiring people in all these different 64 01:03:17,433 --> 01:03:20,733 territories gives you access to far more resources. 65 01:03:21,033 --> 01:03:23,900 Sadly enough there were certain limitations which we had to 66 01:03:23,900 --> 01:03:25,966 apply, which we couldn't actually work 67 01:03:25,966 --> 01:03:29,000 around with, which is actually very sad, 68 01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:33,333 and I can share a very good simple story out of that. 69 01:03:33,766 --> 01:03:36,133 So for example, we had one very 70 01:03:36,133 --> 01:03:38,133 very good candidate out of Iran. 71 01:03:38,866 --> 01:03:41,099 But the challenge with that is, as we 72 01:03:41,099 --> 01:03:44,233 have so many customers in the US, but also 73 01:03:44,966 --> 01:03:47,633 security related customers here in EMEA, 74 01:03:48,466 --> 01:03:51,666 having someone from Iran was more or less a no go. We even 75 01:03:51,666 --> 01:03:53,466 evaluated if we could resettle 76 01:03:53,466 --> 01:03:55,566 him and potentially move him to our 77 01:03:55,566 --> 01:03:57,566 Dubai office or something like that, 78 01:03:58,066 --> 01:04:00,666 but even that wouldn't have solved the problem that he still 79 01:04:00,666 --> 01:04:04,433 has a passport from Iran, and based on that 80 01:04:04,433 --> 01:04:06,900 we are not able to just actually quickly 81 01:04:07,266 --> 01:04:08,066 get him to 82 01:04:09,133 --> 01:04:11,666 joining our our team from that perspective. 83 01:04:12,199 --> 01:04:15,433 But, besides tha,t we were able to get a good list of 84 01:04:15,433 --> 01:04:18,033 candidates and actually had quite a few people 85 01:04:18,033 --> 01:04:21,466 join our team from different countries and 86 01:04:21,866 --> 01:04:22,266 primarily 87 01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:25,566 around Northern Africa, the Middle East 88 01:04:25,566 --> 01:04:29,766 and areas like that -- in real contrast to 89 01:04:29,966 --> 01:04:33,133 what we expected, because we were expecting a much higher 90 01:04:33,133 --> 01:04:36,533 amount of US candidates actually apply for us 91 01:04:36,633 --> 01:04:40,166 especially due to the amount of projects we run in the US 92 01:04:40,166 --> 01:04:44,066 and the customer base we have in the US, but 93 01:04:44,833 --> 01:04:46,633 it seems like 94 01:04:46,633 --> 01:04:51,333 people were looking for for something different than us and 95 01:04:51,333 --> 01:04:53,966 to be realistic, at this day at age, 96 01:04:53,966 --> 01:04:57,866 the biggest challenge we have in the US is that due to the 97 01:04:57,866 --> 01:05:00,133 large tech companies like the big 98 01:05:00,133 --> 01:05:01,866 hyperscales, like Google, Microsoft, 99 01:05:01,866 --> 01:05:03,033 and people like that, 100 01:05:03,866 --> 01:05:08,500 the salaries are in ranges, which are just not achievable. 101 01:05:08,666 --> 01:05:11,966 I mean, even if I look at our freelance resources, which are 102 01:05:11,966 --> 01:05:14,433 typically in a high higher rate 103 01:05:14,833 --> 01:05:16,800 than the employed people... 104 01:05:17,233 --> 01:05:20,366 even over there, it was completely unachievable to get to 105 01:05:20,366 --> 01:05:24,133 these salaries and even if we did the just the basic math 106 01:05:24,133 --> 01:05:25,099 and 107 01:05:25,099 --> 01:05:27,166 calculated how much 108 01:05:27,166 --> 01:05:30,266 would we need to raise or how much 109 01:05:30,266 --> 01:05:33,733 would we need to charge our customers to be at a 110 01:05:33,733 --> 01:05:37,833 reasonable rate perspective didn't work out. But in the end 111 01:05:37,833 --> 01:05:39,933 it was just a handful of people from the US, 112 01:05:39,933 --> 01:05:41,500 but we had far more candidates 113 01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:43,300 from from from other countries. 114 01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:46,833 I think that is something, as more and more 115 01:05:46,833 --> 01:05:50,233 companies start talking about the fact that 116 01:05:51,033 --> 01:05:54,000 they want to allow a remote work, they 117 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,966 want to allow home offices and everything else, 118 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,333 I have the feeling that many companies are still limiting 119 01:05:59,333 --> 01:06:01,666 themselves with local resources. 120 01:06:02,433 --> 01:06:04,599 So from that perspective, 121 01:06:04,599 --> 01:06:06,333 it was an absolute 122 01:06:06,333 --> 01:06:07,833 go for. 123 01:06:08,699 --> 01:06:10,699 Challenges we faced, and as I said 124 01:06:10,699 --> 01:06:13,533 before, I wanted to talk a bit about 125 01:06:13,533 --> 01:06:18,500 challenges we faced and identified on this pathway as well is: 126 01:06:18,666 --> 01:06:22,000 for those people which we had for the US, 127 01:06:22,933 --> 01:06:26,866 hiring someone in the US is far more complex than I thought 128 01:06:26,866 --> 01:06:30,233 it would be. I was used to German 129 01:06:30,233 --> 01:06:33,533 complexities, and based on that I was expecting is like, "hey, 130 01:06:33,533 --> 01:06:35,233 there is not much which can go worse." 131 01:06:35,333 --> 01:06:38,866 But, actually the US hiring process, 132 01:06:38,866 --> 01:06:41,033 with all the different Taxes, insurances, and 133 01:06:41,033 --> 01:06:45,166 local scenarios and everything else is far more complex 134 01:06:45,166 --> 01:06:47,033 than I thought it would be. But 135 01:06:47,033 --> 01:06:48,933 again looking at all of these 136 01:06:49,099 --> 01:06:52,833 different scenarios we figured out that 137 01:06:53,733 --> 01:06:56,566 working with these EOR companies and 138 01:06:56,566 --> 01:06:59,333 HR companies to handle that externally 139 01:06:59,366 --> 01:07:02,900 is actually taking a lot of the pressure away from us as a 140 01:07:02,900 --> 01:07:06,333 company and making it a lot easier for us as well. 141 01:07:09,866 --> 01:07:12,300 And by the way, if you have any questions in the meantime, 142 01:07:12,300 --> 01:07:15,166 feel free to drop them in the chat window we 143 01:07:15,466 --> 01:07:17,233 utilize different streams, so 144 01:07:18,233 --> 01:07:20,366 people are actually following on different streams, so I 145 01:07:20,366 --> 01:07:24,166 will read out the questions then if they show up. 146 01:07:24,166 --> 01:07:27,933 One other thing which we have 147 01:07:27,933 --> 01:07:31,266 figured out, especially here in Germany, was 148 01:07:31,966 --> 01:07:36,800 by the point in time we changed our 149 01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:41,233 campaigns and actually changed from having a German job 150 01:07:41,233 --> 01:07:44,233 advertisement to an English speaking job advertisement, 151 01:07:44,566 --> 01:07:46,366 we had a completely different 152 01:07:46,366 --> 01:07:49,133 set of people applying for our jobs. 153 01:07:49,666 --> 01:07:51,333 No matter the job, 154 01:07:51,333 --> 01:07:55,333 advertising was going out via social media in form of a 155 01:07:55,333 --> 01:07:57,633 video, text, a picture, whatever. 156 01:07:59,166 --> 01:08:01,133 Changing just from German to 157 01:08:01,133 --> 01:08:03,533 English actually made a huge difference 158 01:08:03,833 --> 01:08:04,766 and 159 01:08:05,033 --> 01:08:08,766 the last hires we had for example in the back office team 160 01:08:08,866 --> 01:08:14,466 were both from English speaking campaigns and the lessons 161 01:08:14,466 --> 01:08:16,433 which we learned from most of these people 162 01:08:16,433 --> 01:08:19,866 were that they are no longer applying to... that they were 163 01:08:19,866 --> 01:08:22,433 not applying to any local language 164 01:08:22,433 --> 01:08:26,233 job advertising. It's not because they were not fluent in 165 01:08:26,233 --> 01:08:28,199 German or anything else, it was 166 01:08:28,199 --> 01:08:30,466 primarily because they have seen that, 167 01:08:30,633 --> 01:08:34,399 especially local companies, whether it is in Germany and we 168 01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,399 had similar stories about Spain and other territories... 169 01:08:36,433 --> 01:08:40,433 they are looking for local people and if you 170 01:08:40,433 --> 01:08:43,300 have people who actually come from abroad, 171 01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:46,199 it's a bit of a different different story. So, for example 172 01:08:47,066 --> 01:08:50,833 we have someone who joined our back office team, from 173 01:08:50,833 --> 01:08:52,733 project management perspective. He's 174 01:08:52,733 --> 01:08:54,600 living in Germany comes from the US 175 01:08:55,266 --> 01:08:58,366 He explained to us that it was not 176 01:08:58,366 --> 01:09:01,066 necessarily always that easy to find allocation. 177 01:09:01,266 --> 01:09:03,133 We have someone who joined our 178 01:09:03,666 --> 01:09:05,233 assistance team and 179 01:09:05,633 --> 01:09:09,733 she basically came from Bolivia, was studying in Germany for 180 01:09:09,733 --> 01:09:11,433 many years and stuff like that. 181 01:09:11,766 --> 01:09:15,300 So all of them are not candidates, which are let's say... 182 01:09:17,966 --> 01:09:20,500 typical scenarios where you would say it's like "they barely 183 01:09:20,500 --> 01:09:22,133 speak German or anything else." 184 01:09:22,133 --> 01:09:25,166 They are fully in the region and everything else. 185 01:09:25,266 --> 01:09:29,766 So I think it's as a company, if you really want to live the 186 01:09:29,766 --> 01:09:31,833 modern flexibility and everything else, 187 01:09:31,866 --> 01:09:34,366 you should really look deeply into 188 01:09:35,333 --> 01:09:38,933 becoming more open to hire people where they are and also 189 01:09:38,933 --> 01:09:41,166 to allow people to work where they are. 190 01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:45,000 Really if the job allows. One of the things which I have to 191 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,666 explain very often as a global company 192 01:09:47,899 --> 01:09:50,166 to people when we have discussions 193 01:09:50,166 --> 01:09:53,433 about a home office and stuff like that is... 194 01:09:55,033 --> 01:09:56,933 that there are certain limitations: 195 01:09:57,866 --> 01:09:59,199 limitations due to projects. 196 01:09:59,366 --> 01:10:02,766 So for example, we have some customers which require that 197 01:10:02,766 --> 01:10:04,666 any work is being done 198 01:10:04,666 --> 01:10:07,133 inside the Eu or Northern 199 01:10:07,133 --> 01:10:10,033 American territory, that needs to be 200 01:10:10,166 --> 01:10:12,366 looked after and people need to 201 01:10:12,366 --> 01:10:14,266 be sure that they apply for that. 202 01:10:14,300 --> 01:10:17,233 We actually control that from a project management 203 01:10:17,233 --> 01:10:20,366 perspective and where we can from an IT perspective, 204 01:10:20,366 --> 01:10:22,633 so that we limit access to specific 205 01:10:22,633 --> 01:10:25,300 projects with geographical limitations. 206 01:10:25,866 --> 01:10:30,833 But that is just one step on how we make this work for 207 01:10:31,233 --> 01:10:34,266 people in the different teams from that perspective. 208 01:10:34,899 --> 01:10:38,466 So this is something you can easily deal with and you can 209 01:10:38,466 --> 01:10:41,000 easily handle that from that perspective. 210 01:10:42,533 --> 01:10:51,800 So, for us I can only say so far this has been hugely 211 01:10:52,066 --> 01:10:54,333 effective 212 01:10:54,333 --> 01:11:00,266 and a positive experience to utilize a really global workforce. 213 01:11:01,100 --> 01:11:04,399 We could actually attract people in 214 01:11:04,399 --> 01:11:06,100 different countries in different models, 215 01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:09,199 and you need to start thinking outside of the standard box, 216 01:11:09,199 --> 01:11:11,633 which is something which we also saw. 217 01:11:11,633 --> 01:11:13,733 So for example, we had someone 218 01:11:13,733 --> 01:11:16,133 in the Middle East territory, and 219 01:11:17,266 --> 01:11:21,633 from that Middle East territory that specific person 220 01:11:21,633 --> 01:11:25,766 actually said it's like "hey, I want to move to 221 01:11:25,899 --> 01:11:27,566 Dubai I don't want to stay where 222 01:11:27,566 --> 01:11:31,166 I'm living," and so we worked on a 223 01:11:31,366 --> 01:11:34,833 short-term plan on how we could actually transition that 224 01:11:34,833 --> 01:11:40,666 person to be in our Dubai office and that was 225 01:11:40,866 --> 01:11:43,466 something we had to deal with from a visa, 226 01:11:43,466 --> 01:11:45,333 work permit, and everything else perspective. 227 01:11:45,633 --> 01:11:47,766 But again, don't be shy by these 228 01:11:47,766 --> 01:11:50,266 things because from what our experience, 229 01:11:50,300 --> 01:11:52,199 especially if you work with EOR 230 01:11:52,199 --> 01:11:54,666 or HR companies which deal with that, 231 01:11:55,066 --> 01:11:58,666 they can handle a lot of these scenarios on how you get 232 01:11:58,666 --> 01:12:01,166 visas for people, work permits, and everything else. 233 01:12:01,300 --> 01:12:04,800 This is nothing you as a company should actually deal with 234 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,699 yourself, because it's highly complex 235 01:12:06,699 --> 01:12:08,800 It's highly differential in every 236 01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,066 different country and from that perspective. 237 01:12:11,833 --> 01:12:15,733 On the other part, I must say is like the good 238 01:12:15,733 --> 01:12:18,166 part we have as of now is that 239 01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:20,699 now within comdivision, we have 240 01:12:21,566 --> 01:12:26,666 people from all over at least no longer just EU and the US, 241 01:12:26,666 --> 01:12:31,066 but we have people from all this all over the globe and 242 01:12:31,766 --> 01:12:35,566 This is actually helping us with customers and this is 243 01:12:35,566 --> 01:12:37,833 something which we see with customers as 244 01:12:37,833 --> 01:12:39,466 well. Initially when we thought it's like 245 01:12:39,533 --> 01:12:41,666 okay, we're going to hire people in 246 01:12:41,666 --> 01:12:45,466 Dubai, in Egypt, in other territories, and 247 01:12:45,466 --> 01:12:49,333 how're our (especially US customers) going to react to that 248 01:12:49,333 --> 01:12:51,633 or even our European customers react to it? 249 01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,100 Many of them are used to working with us in 250 01:12:54,100 --> 01:12:55,766 English. Anyway, I mean for North America 251 01:12:55,766 --> 01:13:00,733 that's clear, but for even a lot of the European scenarios 252 01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,466 then we should actually work with that. 253 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:10,966 But overall, the feedback from a lot of the customers was 254 01:13:10,966 --> 01:13:13,566 actually pretty well received, because 255 01:13:13,666 --> 01:13:16,833 the customer said is like look, "the people you're bringing 256 01:13:16,833 --> 01:13:20,699 us are actually really solving our problems" and 257 01:13:20,699 --> 01:13:25,133 having the diversity on the team also helps customers who 258 01:13:25,133 --> 01:13:27,066 have a similar diversity on the team. 259 01:13:27,066 --> 01:13:30,133 So for example, we have service providers in the US that 260 01:13:30,133 --> 01:13:33,766 then again have teams in Europe or in Eastern Europe, and 261 01:13:33,766 --> 01:13:37,266 the more different people you have on a project, 262 01:13:37,399 --> 01:13:41,899 the more it people actually have to adjust to use a 263 01:13:41,899 --> 01:13:44,066 standard wording, standard terms, etc. 264 01:13:44,066 --> 01:13:46,800 And, not actually go that much into 265 01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,733 Country specifics, but this actually helps all of us 266 01:13:50,733 --> 01:13:54,433 to be more and more successful from 267 01:13:54,433 --> 01:13:56,266 a company perspective. 268 01:13:59,100 --> 01:14:01,833 There is a question how do you deal with different salaries 269 01:14:01,833 --> 01:14:03,533 in all these different countries? 270 01:14:07,133 --> 01:14:08,466 Clearly there is a salary 271 01:14:08,466 --> 01:14:11,399 difference. As I said in the beginning, we had 272 01:14:12,066 --> 01:14:13,833 quite a bit of a challenge with 273 01:14:14,233 --> 01:14:18,133 the US, because the salaries were or the 274 01:14:18,133 --> 01:14:21,800 expected salaries were completely outside of the range 275 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,766 of what we could apply to customers. So that 276 01:14:24,766 --> 01:14:27,666 was a bit of a challenge from that perspective. 277 01:14:29,100 --> 01:14:32,833 On the other side, in some of these other countries, we have 278 01:14:33,466 --> 01:14:37,100 lower salaries, but we then try to make it 279 01:14:37,733 --> 01:14:41,100 still very attractive for these people to join the team. So 280 01:14:41,100 --> 01:14:43,666 only because the let's say standard 281 01:14:44,866 --> 01:14:48,366 monthly salary would be like 5k 282 01:14:48,366 --> 01:14:50,833 in that region, if a reasonable 283 01:14:50,866 --> 01:14:53,600 salary and the people would actually 284 01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:58,733 perform for it would be more in the 7 to 10 K area or 285 01:14:58,733 --> 01:15:01,066 even higher depending on the specific job, 286 01:15:01,266 --> 01:15:04,666 then we could apply that for that specific person. 287 01:15:04,733 --> 01:15:09,366 So, we try to not be country specific with the salaries, 288 01:15:09,466 --> 01:15:12,933 but actually be specific to the individual job, because 289 01:15:12,933 --> 01:15:16,966 people might be moving, people might be switching countries 290 01:15:17,033 --> 01:15:19,666 and roles, and it can't be that we 291 01:15:19,666 --> 01:15:21,766 actually limited from that perspective. 292 01:15:22,166 --> 01:15:23,833 What we try to avoid with that 293 01:15:23,833 --> 01:15:26,500 is exactly the scenario that 294 01:15:26,500 --> 01:15:30,333 many US tech companies had after the pandemic, 295 01:15:30,633 --> 01:15:33,766 where during the pandemic people moved out of the Bay Area 296 01:15:33,766 --> 01:15:37,333 and moved into cheaper areas of the US and 297 01:15:37,733 --> 01:15:40,533 all of the sudden they had much more out of their salary. 298 01:15:40,533 --> 01:15:42,566 So instead of having a very small apartment 299 01:15:42,566 --> 01:15:45,566 They could afford having a house or anything else. 300 01:15:45,566 --> 01:15:48,333 But now then the tech companies actually figured out is 301 01:15:48,333 --> 01:15:49,699 like oh people moved into a 302 01:15:49,699 --> 01:15:52,366 different scenario, and in the US 303 01:15:52,733 --> 01:15:54,366 certain companies have 304 01:15:55,066 --> 01:15:57,466 Regional bonuses depending on where you 305 01:15:57,466 --> 01:15:59,666 are working you get a higher or lower salary. 306 01:15:59,833 --> 01:16:02,466 So as the pandemic was over, as 307 01:16:02,466 --> 01:16:05,033 everybody was actually really basically 308 01:16:05,433 --> 01:16:08,633 rebasing and actually reporting where they are located, 309 01:16:08,633 --> 01:16:10,233 because people said, "oh, 310 01:16:10,233 --> 01:16:12,633 we can't actually come into the office, because I'm living 311 01:16:12,633 --> 01:16:14,566 now in Michigan instead of California." 312 01:16:16,733 --> 01:16:20,066 People had to adjust to that, and we try to avoid that. 313 01:16:20,300 --> 01:16:25,266 So the idea is that on average and it depends on countries, 314 01:16:25,266 --> 01:16:29,433 taxes, insurances, and a bunch of other things, but we try to 315 01:16:29,433 --> 01:16:32,333 balance this so that it is actually 316 01:16:32,466 --> 01:16:35,833 equal across the different countries, because 317 01:16:36,366 --> 01:16:40,366 as we run pretty open books internally for many of our 318 01:16:40,366 --> 01:16:42,166 scenarios within the companies, 319 01:16:42,933 --> 01:16:46,133 people would rather quickly figure out that there is a huge 320 01:16:46,133 --> 01:16:47,766 discrepancy between different 321 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,000 daily or monthly salaries, and that would 322 01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,533 actually create a different motion in the team. 323 01:16:54,866 --> 01:16:57,466 It would also cause other challenges, because 324 01:16:58,199 --> 01:16:59,033 potentially a 325 01:16:59,433 --> 01:17:01,833 Project manager or a Salesman position would 326 01:17:01,833 --> 01:17:05,366 actually be more attracted to take the lower 327 01:17:05,766 --> 01:17:06,466 rate 328 01:17:07,033 --> 01:17:07,533 resources 329 01:17:08,166 --> 01:17:11,833 and sell them as a senior resource to the higher 330 01:17:11,833 --> 01:17:15,866 rate country and then actually try 331 01:17:15,866 --> 01:17:17,100 to make this either as a 332 01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:19,199 margin or give customers a specific 333 01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:22,100 discount, and to avoid this we basically 334 01:17:22,100 --> 01:17:24,933 try to balance this out as best we can. 335 01:17:27,066 --> 01:17:30,300 Sure there are limitations and it 336 01:17:30,300 --> 01:17:32,133 doesn't always work that perfectly, 337 01:17:32,866 --> 01:17:36,266 but it is actually for us. It's working pretty well so far. 338 01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:46,000 Another question coming in: "how 339 01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,166 do you deal with people moving?" 340 01:17:48,866 --> 01:17:51,699 The people moving for us is something clearly we need to 341 01:17:51,699 --> 01:17:55,266 consider that, because there are all kinds of 342 01:17:55,266 --> 01:17:57,733 tax and legal implications out of it, 343 01:17:58,733 --> 01:18:00,933 but in general, as I explained with trying 344 01:18:00,933 --> 01:18:03,033 to balance the salaries and everything else, 345 01:18:03,566 --> 01:18:07,100 we figure that that is not necessarily so much of an issue. 346 01:18:07,466 --> 01:18:10,833 The important part is we need to make sure that we are 347 01:18:10,833 --> 01:18:13,866 legally and tax-wise and everything else in the green area, 348 01:18:13,866 --> 01:18:16,733 which also by the way applies to remote workers? 349 01:18:16,733 --> 01:18:18,766 So if someone is actually just for a 350 01:18:18,766 --> 01:18:20,766 week or two weeks somewhere else to work, 351 01:18:21,166 --> 01:18:24,533 it's typically not so much of an issue depending on the 352 01:18:24,533 --> 01:18:26,833 type of work the location and everything else, 353 01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:30,100 but if someone works, let's say from the holidays 354 01:18:30,100 --> 01:18:34,466 it's relatively simple. If someone actually moves somewhere 355 01:18:34,466 --> 01:18:37,033 or works there for multiple weeks or something else. 356 01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,466 we need to consider this more 357 01:18:40,466 --> 01:18:45,300 thoroughly, because in those specific areas we need to be 358 01:18:45,833 --> 01:18:48,899 much more clear that we obey 359 01:18:48,899 --> 01:18:50,833 local tax laws and everything else. 360 01:18:50,966 --> 01:18:54,166 So for example, even though you can easily move around 361 01:18:54,166 --> 01:18:56,333 within Europe from a job perspective, 362 01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,133 but as you are working... for 363 01:19:00,133 --> 01:19:02,366 example, if you're German and if you are actually 364 01:19:02,366 --> 01:19:04,966 working for four weeks, eight weeks 365 01:19:04,966 --> 01:19:06,533 or something like that from Spain 366 01:19:06,533 --> 01:19:08,666 that can actually become an issue, 367 01:19:08,666 --> 01:19:10,966 because you need to potentially pay local 368 01:19:11,333 --> 01:19:13,233 taxes in Spain and stuff like that. 369 01:19:13,666 --> 01:19:15,033 So this is something which I 370 01:19:15,033 --> 01:19:17,266 said before: working with an EOR... 371 01:19:17,366 --> 01:19:21,333 so an employee of record company can clearly help you, 372 01:19:21,333 --> 01:19:22,800 because you can always raise the 373 01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:24,566 question with them and say, 374 01:19:24,566 --> 01:19:27,766 "we have this employee who is temporarily moving there or 375 01:19:27,766 --> 01:19:30,300 actually working for this in that time period. 376 01:19:30,300 --> 01:19:34,399 Do we need to actually migrate their contract or anything 377 01:19:34,399 --> 01:19:36,566 else?" and they can work with it. So 378 01:19:38,233 --> 01:19:40,300 As I said from that perspective, 379 01:19:41,233 --> 01:19:44,233 working where you are is definitely going to help you. 380 01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:48,300 So how do you deal with customers 381 01:19:48,300 --> 01:19:50,033 who want to have a specific language? 382 01:19:50,033 --> 01:19:51,933 So yeah, so that is an issue 383 01:19:52,133 --> 01:19:54,133 So if I for example have a German 384 01:19:54,133 --> 01:19:56,333 speaking customer, typically in our case 385 01:19:56,533 --> 01:19:59,866 we have that problem, especially with German public sector 386 01:19:59,866 --> 01:20:03,000 customers, and they require a German speaking resource. 387 01:20:03,633 --> 01:20:05,266 Okay, then we are bound to the 388 01:20:05,266 --> 01:20:07,566 resources which we have with that capability, 389 01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,000 and then we need to know and 390 01:20:10,433 --> 01:20:12,466 limit it down to these specific 391 01:20:12,466 --> 01:20:15,033 resources and now we can only allow 392 01:20:15,766 --> 01:20:18,966 these specific people to work on the project. On the other 393 01:20:18,966 --> 01:20:20,899 side that means for the customer potentially 394 01:20:21,266 --> 01:20:25,300 they have to wait longer for available resources with 395 01:20:25,300 --> 01:20:27,666 the skill set, because all of 396 01:20:27,666 --> 01:20:29,466 a sudden, by limiting the language 397 01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:31,266 it becomes more rare. 398 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,833 It's the same but like by limiting it for example with a 399 01:20:34,833 --> 01:20:36,666 specific security clearance for a 400 01:20:36,666 --> 01:20:39,866 specific country or NATO or something else. 401 01:20:40,233 --> 01:20:43,733 In that specific scenario, we need to basically 402 01:20:44,066 --> 01:20:48,000 fulfil specific requirements and those requirements need 403 01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:49,533 to be fulfilled in the specific country. 404 01:20:49,633 --> 01:20:52,533 So limits the amount of resources we can do. 405 01:20:53,166 --> 01:20:56,233 But let's face it what we see in many many projects, even 406 01:20:56,233 --> 01:20:58,566 when it comes down to military projects 407 01:20:59,466 --> 01:21:03,566 across at least the NATO territory. It's much easier than 408 01:21:03,566 --> 01:21:06,100 you think. Maybe I cannot actually 409 01:21:06,100 --> 01:21:08,533 take someone out of an Arabic country, 410 01:21:08,533 --> 01:21:10,633 which is not part of the NATO and 411 01:21:10,633 --> 01:21:13,333 actually have that work on a NATO project. 412 01:21:13,533 --> 01:21:16,633 But that is more or less the exception. We have enough 413 01:21:16,633 --> 01:21:19,466 people who can actually deal with these specific scenarios. 414 01:21:20,066 --> 01:21:23,133 When it comes down to service providers and even very large 415 01:21:23,133 --> 01:21:25,933 ones in the US up to hyperscalers, 416 01:21:25,933 --> 01:21:28,566 and when it comes down to 417 01:21:29,166 --> 01:21:32,566 infrastructure projects, this is typically not an issue. It 418 01:21:32,566 --> 01:21:34,899 needs to be announced. We need to make always 419 01:21:34,899 --> 01:21:38,366 specific security clearance and not security clearance like 420 01:21:38,366 --> 01:21:41,433 for military purposes, but especially in the US 421 01:21:41,433 --> 01:21:44,233 there are certain requirements we have to go through for 422 01:21:44,233 --> 01:21:47,533 employees to allow them to... even if they work remotely. 423 01:21:47,866 --> 01:21:50,566 So if they work remotely and do not 424 01:21:50,566 --> 01:21:53,433 actually touch base on US soil, 425 01:21:53,733 --> 01:21:56,699 they do not need to have a US work visa from that 426 01:21:56,699 --> 01:21:58,266 perspective in most cases. There 427 01:21:58,266 --> 01:22:00,000 are exceptions for that as well. 428 01:22:00,533 --> 01:22:03,733 But we still need to get through specific 429 01:22:04,399 --> 01:22:06,233 reviews of these people, so 430 01:22:06,933 --> 01:22:09,566 there needs to be a checkup that there is no criminal 431 01:22:09,566 --> 01:22:11,366 record and all of these scenarios. 432 01:22:11,833 --> 01:22:15,266 But we typically do this on a regular basis for all of our 433 01:22:15,266 --> 01:22:18,733 employees anyway, because this applies more less the 434 01:22:19,566 --> 01:22:21,166 background check and stuff like that 435 01:22:21,166 --> 01:22:24,433 applies to let's say 95% of our projects. So 436 01:22:24,966 --> 01:22:27,166 This is nothing we can just actually 437 01:22:27,166 --> 01:22:31,266 avoid or we can go from that specific perspective. 438 01:22:31,266 --> 01:22:38,366 Okay, so that was quite a bit of questions, 439 01:22:38,366 --> 01:22:40,633 if you have any other questions feel free to 440 01:22:41,633 --> 01:22:43,466 drop them in the 441 01:22:44,033 --> 01:22:46,533 comments section whether it is on 442 01:22:46,533 --> 01:22:49,866 TikTok on LinkedIn on YouTube or anything else. 443 01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,233 Also again, we are running this as a 444 01:22:55,633 --> 01:22:58,733 Podcast recording so you can find it on 445 01:23:00,933 --> 01:23:04,133 different on the different podcast platforms whether it's 446 01:23:04,133 --> 01:23:07,899 Apple Podcast or any of the other ones. 447 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:11,533 Spotify for example. Just search for 448 01:23:11,533 --> 01:23:13,433 my name and you will find it over there. 449 01:23:13,833 --> 01:23:15,533 Thanks, by the way for all the likes 450 01:23:15,533 --> 01:23:17,500 and everything else in all the platforms. 451 01:23:19,333 --> 01:23:22,533 Allso it would be great if you give us a bit of 452 01:23:22,533 --> 01:23:24,333 feedback on how you like that 453 01:23:24,333 --> 01:23:27,566 we split the content formats now a bit more clearly. 454 01:23:27,566 --> 01:23:30,333 Yves Just Chatting is really more, 455 01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,000 from a business perspective, talking and 456 01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,366 clearly separating the VMware by Broadcom 457 01:23:35,833 --> 01:23:37,733 pieces out from that 458 01:23:37,733 --> 01:23:39,833 perspective. So for example on Thursday (July 4), 459 01:23:39,833 --> 01:23:41,933 we have the recording of the next VCD 460 01:23:41,933 --> 01:23:44,966 Roundtable, which is purely technically focused 461 01:23:45,399 --> 01:23:47,300 from that perspective and 462 01:23:47,466 --> 01:23:49,899 just let us know if you like that, and if 463 01:23:49,899 --> 01:23:52,266 you enjoy that, and if we should continue. 464 01:23:55,366 --> 01:23:56,266 Yeah, and 465 01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:59,766 We have already covered 25 minutes 30 minutes 466 01:24:00,566 --> 01:24:03,500 depending on when you look at the starting time. If there 467 01:24:03,500 --> 01:24:05,533 are no further questions, let 468 01:24:05,533 --> 01:24:08,066 me wrap up today's session. 469 01:24:08,433 --> 01:24:11,800 This was Episode 30: How comdivision 470 01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:14,066 Became a Global Employer. 471 01:24:14,466 --> 01:24:16,466 So this is the topic of the day. 472 01:24:16,466 --> 01:24:18,666 It's episode 30 of Yves Just Chatting. 473 01:24:19,399 --> 01:24:22,966 We covered more or less how we move from trying to hire 474 01:24:22,966 --> 01:24:25,566 people primarily in the EU and the US 475 01:24:25,566 --> 01:24:28,366 into opening it up completely globally, 476 01:24:28,566 --> 01:24:31,500 how we worked around the different 477 01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:33,933 challenges by utilizing EORs 478 01:24:33,966 --> 01:24:37,000 (employer of record companies), etc. If you search a bit on the 479 01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:38,199 internet, there are different ones 480 01:24:38,199 --> 01:24:41,266 I don't want to do advertising for any one of them, because 481 01:24:41,266 --> 01:24:43,733 there are all kinds of different advantages and 482 01:24:44,100 --> 01:24:46,866 disadvantages between them. Talk to them. You need to work 483 01:24:46,866 --> 01:24:49,233 with them a lot. So you need to get along with the people. 484 01:24:49,233 --> 01:24:50,266 That's important 485 01:24:51,500 --> 01:24:55,266 Trying to figure out how to deal with visas, etc. Again, 486 01:24:55,266 --> 01:24:57,033 the EORs are a good help with that. 487 01:24:57,233 --> 01:25:00,033 It's much easier than you think; you need 488 01:25:00,033 --> 01:25:02,233 to be open for it from a company perspective. 489 01:25:02,366 --> 01:25:06,233 You need to also clearly communicate your expectation, only 490 01:25:06,233 --> 01:25:08,566 because someone is sitting in a different country. 491 01:25:10,300 --> 01:25:13,833 You also need to make clear which other territories they 492 01:25:13,833 --> 01:25:16,566 are working in. For example if I have someone 493 01:25:17,066 --> 01:25:20,466 who is actually applying for a job from, let's say, 494 01:25:21,333 --> 01:25:23,433 Romania and I know that he is 495 01:25:23,433 --> 01:25:25,766 going to work primarily on US projects, 496 01:25:25,866 --> 01:25:27,833 I need to make clear in the hiring 497 01:25:27,833 --> 01:25:30,266 process that they know which time zones etc 498 01:25:30,433 --> 01:25:33,333 they are most likely going to work most of the time, and 499 01:25:33,333 --> 01:25:36,233 whether that's fine or not with them, because 500 01:25:36,333 --> 01:25:40,399 That is the challenge of participating in a global company 501 01:25:40,399 --> 01:25:44,166 that you might actually work in different time zones that 502 01:25:44,166 --> 01:25:45,566 you need to be fine with it or not. 503 01:25:45,566 --> 01:25:46,466 And if you tell me no 504 01:25:46,533 --> 01:25:49,166 You're not fine with one of our EU time zones, then we 505 01:25:49,166 --> 01:25:50,800 just need to look at how many 506 01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:52,466 projects and how much can we do? 507 01:25:52,866 --> 01:25:56,933 So I hope you enjoyed today's 508 01:25:56,933 --> 01:25:58,766 session. Our session for next week 509 01:25:58,766 --> 01:26:00,899 I can tell you already is going to be 510 01:26:00,899 --> 01:26:03,966 how to deal with criticism versus feedback 511 01:26:03,966 --> 01:26:07,966 and how you differentiate with that and how I learned all 512 01:26:07,966 --> 01:26:11,800 the time to actually deal with that. I hope that 513 01:26:12,666 --> 01:26:17,199 We get even more viewers and listeners next week. If you 514 01:26:17,199 --> 01:26:18,733 couldn't actually attend the full session, 515 01:26:18,733 --> 01:26:21,933 the recording is going to be on YouTube and the podcast is 516 01:26:21,933 --> 01:26:24,633 going to come up in a couple of days on 517 01:26:24,633 --> 01:26:26,633 the different podcast platforms. 518 01:26:26,633 --> 01:26:28,566 Hope to see you again next week, 519 01:26:28,566 --> 01:26:31,133 and if you are not doing so already, follow me on social 520 01:26:31,133 --> 01:26:35,233 media. The tag is Yves Sandfort as it is on all the platforms. 521 01:26:35,300 --> 01:26:38,066 Hope to see you there, and I 522 01:26:38,066 --> 01:26:40,233 hope you enjoyed the show! See you, bye!