Curious Humans with Jonny Miller

Marcela Ot’alora worked as the lead co-therapist and principal investigator for all of the MAPS — which stands for  Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies — MDMA-assisted psychotherapy studies. She has also been designing curriculum and training therapists associated with MAPS.

In this conversation, which we recorded together in our home here in Boulder Colorado, we explored how she found her way into this work over three decades ago, possible tension I perceived between the clinical aspect of these studies and the sacredness of the work, how she trains therapists in the rare art of being able to hold space for deep transformation, and what she believes is happening that has led to the extraordinary results that the MAPS trials have created — a 71% reduction in otherwise untreatable symptoms of PTSD.

Official Links

👨‍🔬 MAPS MDMA Research and Resources (link)

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Episode Sponsor // Nervous System Mastery

This is my flagship five-week boot camp designed to equip you with evidence-backed protocols to cultivate calm and emotional regulation. Our fifth cohort will run in April 2024 ~ and applications are currently open.

My sense is that if this conversation resonates with you, then you'd likely be a great fit for our upcoming cohort. This curriculum represents my attempt to distill everything that I've learned in recent years about how to create the conditions for our nervous system's flourishing. 

It's run in an intensive cohort-based way since this is, in my experience, the most efficient way to embody and practice the protocols. Previous students have shared how partaking not only improved their sleep and quality of relationships but also tapped into deeper states of joy, clarity, and confidence in their lives.

We've had over 750 students have completed this training, and many have said that it has been the most impactful thing they've ever done for their personal growth.

Apply to join this year's cohort over at


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Creators & Guests

Jonny Miller
Curious Human
Rob Johnson

What is Curious Humans with Jonny Miller?

Deep dive conversations that celebrate self-experimentation and ask what it means to cultivate embodied wisdom.