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Hello friends, welcome to the very first
episode of the Live Lightly podcast.

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Today, I'm grateful to bring you the
director of Earth Day Organizations and

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Plastics Initiatives, Aidan Charone.

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thank you so much, Aiden, for joining us.

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Welcome.

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I would love to start with hearing your
story a little bit about what inspired you

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to work with Earth Day organization, and
especially, this particular niche with

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plastic.

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sure thing.

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So thank you so much for having me on.

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I really appreciate it.

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Yeah, my name is Aidan Charron I'm the
director of End Plastic Initiatives.

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I got into the environmental field pretty
early on from the Outer Banks of North

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Carolina originally.

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So I grew up right along the beach.

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My parents owned a restaurant, so we also
relied pretty heavily on the tourism

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industry.

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And with that, on the Outer Banks, that
means our beaches need to be clean.

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I started stupid diving when I was 12.

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And then went off to college to do biology
and a concentration in tertiary and

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freshwater studies, as well as a minor in
geographic information systems.

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That's just a really fancy way of saying
satellites and satellite imaging and GPS

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tracking.

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And then while in college, I also did
education platforms with the aquarium at

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Pine Nile Shores, so the North Carolina
Aquarium of Pine Nile Shores.

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I was one of the people they would throw
into the shark tank with a scuba helmet on

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and then I would talk to crowds about
plastic pollution.

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Falling college, yeah, it was great.

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I really loved that experience.

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I wish I could continue doing it just on a
volunteer basis, but the, yeah, just for

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fun, but it's a little far away.

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Yes, unfortunately, but after college I...

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worked in wetland reclamation for a small
engineering firm as well as with the North

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Carolina NRCS and the federal NRCS.

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And then from there, I moved up to DC to
pursue teaching and kind of fell in love

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with teaching, but also wanted to get into
the environmental field still and kind of

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stay in that realm.

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So I found Earth Day's climate education
program, started working for them in 2022

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as the Canopy Project and and Plastics
manager.

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And then last year I was promoted to the
director of End -Plastic initiatives

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because of the focus with the global
plastics treaty as well as the switch in

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our theme and just seeing that there
needed to be more of a focus on plastics

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as a whole and just we needed to
concentrate more manpower there.

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Yeah, it's a thing in and of itself,
right?

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it's a very complex issue in and of
itself.

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And it's just kind of a bummer issue, but
also one that we have a lot of hope for.

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well, let's talk a little bit about why is
it a bummer issue?

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think that people by now have kind of
heard plastic is not good maybe don't

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understand completely why.

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I know seven years ago when I learned
about it, I was like, wow, I didn't know

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why it was so bad.

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So if you could just speak to that
particular point.

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what it's made of and why it's so bad for
us and for the planet.

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what a lot of people don't realize is that
plastic is made up of fossil fuels.

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So petroleum, the same thing that we're
pumping into our cars.

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Isn't that crazy that like we literally
had no idea that it's made of that?

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Like, until you're told.

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prevalent and then a lot of people don't
realize that a lot of the fabrics and

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their clothing are also made up of
plastic, just with a fancier name or

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synthetic material, nylon, polyester, it's
spandex, it's all just pretty wild and

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then.

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You also look at it as it's made of these
fossil fuels, but then there's also at

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least 16 ,000 different additive chemicals
that they can introduce into plastic that

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give it different properties, whether it's
the color, making it flame retardant,

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making it more malleable.

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And the issue with plastic is mainly those
additive chemicals.

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That's one of the largest issues with them
because we don't have regulations on those

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chemicals really.

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And we also don't really know or just
starting to do the research.

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There's been research out for 30 years
now, but people are finally waking up to

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it and realizing there are these huge
issues with it.

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Some of those issues include increased
cancer rates for people in production

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sites, increased cancer rates for
children, early onset puberty in children.

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And then all those are linked to something
called endocrine disruption.

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Endocrine, the endocrine system.

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it's important.

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Mm -hmm.

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way to put it.

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And most people think hormones puberty,
but hormones control everything they're

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linked to.

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Yeah.

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And without that systems thrown out of
whack, your whole body should be thrown

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out of whack.

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And somebody described it as like, when
plastic breaks down, it becomes

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microplastic.

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And that's when it starts to get truly,
truly dangerous for human health in

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particular.

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Um, and they described it as, you know,
plastic is the spaghetti and then the

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plasticizers and added chemicals are the
sauce essentially.

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Um, while they're separated first, once
you combine the two, they're inseparable

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altogether.

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And when they break down,

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They're more easily ingestible by us.

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Okay, yeah, so consuming it because,
they're drinking out of a plastic water

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bottle or other ways too.

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Let's talk about that.

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of one of the larger issues.

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So yes, if you are drinking out of a
plastic water bottle, you are going to be

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ingesting more plastic right there.

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I believe it's 250 ,000 particles of
plastic in a single water bottle.

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there's basically three kinds of plastic.

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There's macroplastic.

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So what you can see, I think I have a
reusable water bottle.

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This is a macroplastic.

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I can see it.

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Microplastic is five millimeters down to
the mic size.

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So pretty tiny.

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You can see those plates, those nurdles.

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And then you have nanoplastic, which is
microscopic And then it continues to break

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down even further.

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or not even break down, but just get
smaller and smaller down to, we don't know

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when it stops yet.

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We just know that it just keeps getting to
tinier and tinier pieces.

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Yeah, and it doesn't ever go away, right?

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Is that what they're finding now?

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initially we thought it of like, oh, it's
breaking down.

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It takes a lot of breakdown, but you know,
it's disappearing eventually.

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Right.

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Whatever.

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We're not to worry about it.

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And then we started looking into the
waterways and it was like, oh no, it's

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just dispersed more easily.

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Now it's not just broken down and just
disappears.

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It's just disperses throughout.

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And that's kind of where we are ingesting
it from.

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So while yeah, you are consuming some
through water bottles and higher

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concentrations, it is also in all of our
waterways and all of our food, which is a

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huge issue, as well as you're breathing it
in constantly because it's small enough to

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be lifted up by the air and just floating
around in our dust.

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I'm sure that they haven't even really
scratched the surface as to, the science

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catching up with how plastics are involved
with people's health issues.

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I mean, how much do you know about that?

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So there's been evidence of the health
issues related to plastics since the early

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1990s.

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You have Dr.

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Pete Myers, who's been studying the
endocrine disruption issue for years now,

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but no one really cared.

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It was kind of the issue.

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And then also there's just a huge gap.

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You know,

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of knowledge.

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So you have scientists researching it, but
how many people are going out and reading

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scientific journals or how many news media
sites are going to pick up one scientific

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journal published by the University of
Rhode Island, which is a great, you know,

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great school, great publication, but it's
not, you know, a sexy material.

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It's not a sexy story to be like, look,
hormone disruption caused by this material

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that we are forced to use in our everyday

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yeah, exactly.

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And when you say forced to use, it's so
true because everything we end up with in

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our hands as consumers is either plastic
itself or it's a packaged, you know,

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something in plastic and yeah, so it's
very unintentional.

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But we're contributing to the problem
every day and it's not even part of our

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awareness that, it's,

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doing all of this damage to our own health
and to the planet?

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And can we talk a little bit more about,
what does that mean for the environment

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that all of this is ending up in the
water?

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And what does that mean for the future of
the planet?

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Really?

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of course.

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So there's three parts to it.

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So there's something called the triple
planetary crisis.

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We have pollution, biodiversity loss, and
climate change.

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Plastic encompasses all three of those.

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So currently plastic only makes up 3 .2 %
of global emissions every year of carbon

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dioxide and other greenhouse gases.

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That's projected to at least triple by
2040.

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Wow.

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we see a shift from the petrochemical
producers and the fossil fuel companies

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from being like, look, we have this great
fuel source for our cars, but as we switch

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to, you know, renewable materials,
renewable energy sources, we're like, oh,

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well, our cars won't fuel it.

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So the petrochemical companies don't want
to lose any money.

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So what they're doing is producing more
plastic.

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So we're gonna have higher emissions
there.

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And then with that, we're gonna have
higher output of plastic, which is

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contributing to the pollution issue.

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I guarantee the most common piece of trash
you see on the ground is plastic.

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Cigarette butts are by piece, I believe
the largest, you know, by count, the

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largest number of litter that you see.

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five trillion cigarette butts are
introduced into the environment every year

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people probably don't even know plastic is
in that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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material called cellulose acetate.

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Cellulose acetate, oh look, cellulose,
cell, must be made from a tree.

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That's what I thought for years.

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you hear that and that's what you think.

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It's very cleverly named.

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Yes, one more reason.

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knowledge and I'm considered a bummer in
the office because people are like, what

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funfacts did you pick up today?

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But the final point of the final
contributing terribleness of plastic is

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the biodiversity loss.

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So the biodiversity loss in our
environment.

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Everybody knows about the macroplastics
that we see.

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So those are the pieces of plastic you can
see, you can hold, you know, clogging up

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fish, clogging up seabirds.

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Everybody's seen the picture of the turtle
with a straw on its nose or a seahorse

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holding a plastic q -tip.

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So those are killing the animals, you
know, straight out.

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They also, when plastic is broken down,
they tend to bioaccumulate.

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So when they are a microplastic or a
nanoplastic, they'll be eaten by tiny,

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almost plankton -like things called
dinoflagellates.

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It's basically just like, it looks like
under a microplastic it looks like a

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pincer.

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and I'll eat just a small, nerdle of
plastic, which is just a tiny little round

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piece of plastic.

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And then, you know, a fish comes through,
eats a bunch of those.

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Those plastics are now clogging up the
fish through its digestive system and

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throughout its muscle tissue.

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And then we come through, we eat the fish,
ends up in us.

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We're also seeing die off rates due to
fish consuming massive amounts of plastic.

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And we're, it's pretty difficult to
analyze the actual health effects of fish.

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So I'm sure if we run a study around the
health effects of fish, we're going to

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find that they're not as healthy as they
used to be because of the amount of

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plastic they're consuming and the amount
of chemicals they're consuming because of

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it.

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There's a recent thing and they're calling
it plastiosis, I believe is the term to

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describe some condition in seabirds that
were consuming large amounts of plastic

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being their mental state was just not the
same as it used to be.

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They weren't able to concentrate, weren't
able to fly as well.

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And they just had all these

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underlying health issues that weren't
around 80 years ago.

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Wow, that's crazy.

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And so we're really scratching the surface
on the effects in the environment and in

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us really is the bottom line.

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Right.

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And so in addition to all of these
impacts, I'd like to discuss a little bit

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about the other environmental tolls that
it takes to produce plastic, like the

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strain that it puts on other natural
resources to produce it, to ship it, to

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get it

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00:16:13,256 --> 00:16:14,542
to consumers.

234
00:16:14,671 --> 00:16:19,511
Yeah, so I mean, you have the output
during the production of your emitting

235
00:16:19,511 --> 00:16:25,031
these tots of chemicals into both the air
and into the water that's next to these

236
00:16:25,031 --> 00:16:25,571
facilities.

237
00:16:25,571 --> 00:16:30,511
So the most affected communities, the ones
we're seeing the first traces of these

238
00:16:30,511 --> 00:16:34,751
increased cancer rates is the frontline
communities living right beside the

239
00:16:34,751 --> 00:16:35,571
production sites.

240
00:16:35,571 --> 00:16:39,861
They're typically black and brown, lower
income communities as well that, you know,

241
00:16:39,861 --> 00:16:44,527
in the United States, especially, and I'm
sure elsewhere can't afford.

242
00:16:44,527 --> 00:16:49,447
health care as much so the death rates are
also higher in these areas.

243
00:16:49,447 --> 00:16:54,487
I spoke to a colleague and a colleague
spoke on a panel the other day about they

244
00:16:54,487 --> 00:16:56,247
she's from Detroit.

245
00:16:56,267 --> 00:17:04,007
She lived in Detroit and during COVID she
saw an increase in death rates because

246
00:17:04,007 --> 00:17:08,207
COVID was ravishing the communities at the
same time that their immune systems were

247
00:17:08,207 --> 00:17:14,207
falling apart because of the production of
these chemicals in their areas.

248
00:17:15,022 --> 00:17:20,482
So that's a contributing factor to the
areas where it's produced in addition to

249
00:17:20,482 --> 00:17:24,942
the resources, it's also impacting human
health in those communities.

250
00:17:24,942 --> 00:17:29,812
So yeah, that's, I think, something that
isn't talked about nearly enough.

251
00:17:29,812 --> 00:17:35,542
There's not enough awareness around that.

252
00:17:35,542 --> 00:17:37,532
it's like one thing after another.

253
00:17:37,532 --> 00:17:43,022
It's layer upon layer upon layer.

254
00:17:43,022 --> 00:17:48,782
when we as consumers end up with plastic
and if we have the availability to recycle

255
00:17:48,782 --> 00:18:03,252
it, you know, let's talk about that
because we're trying to be good citizens.

256
00:18:03,252 --> 00:18:12,382
But I know that it's not as recyclable as
we were, we are being led to believe.

257
00:18:12,719 --> 00:18:18,339
Yeah, unfortunately, we were all convinced
by industry members that, you know,

258
00:18:18,339 --> 00:18:20,239
recycling was to be the savior.

259
00:18:20,239 --> 00:18:21,919
Recycling was a great thing.

260
00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:26,179
And it's just not recycling is extremely
difficult with plastic because of all of

261
00:18:26,179 --> 00:18:29,299
the different chemicals that we talked
about.

262
00:18:29,739 --> 00:18:34,859
You can have, you recycle certain plastics
that you know what's in them and that's

263
00:18:34,859 --> 00:18:35,229
it.

264
00:18:35,229 --> 00:18:37,519
If you don't know what's in them, you
can't recycle them.

265
00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:42,254
And there's 16 ,000, at least different
chemicals in plastic.

266
00:18:42,254 --> 00:18:43,304
Mm -hmm.

267
00:18:43,887 --> 00:18:47,107
many of them have been studied or
observed.

268
00:18:47,107 --> 00:18:51,987
And then the majority of them cannot be
processed or recycled in a traditional way

269
00:18:51,987 --> 00:18:53,159
that we think of.

270
00:18:53,166 --> 00:19:03,545
So those just end up in a landfill for God
only knows how long

271
00:19:03,607 --> 00:19:16,954
incinerated

272
00:19:16,954 --> 00:19:22,314
Yeah, so it's not easy to get rid of the
hard stuff that can't go in your bin, the

273
00:19:22,314 --> 00:19:23,524
stuff that's going in your bin.

274
00:19:23,524 --> 00:19:26,094
There's a lot of news right now.

275
00:19:26,094 --> 00:19:31,494
Around 90 % of plastics are not being
recycled and we're talking like single use

276
00:19:31,494 --> 00:19:36,238
stuff that, you know, I guess has that
label that says you can put me in a bin.

277
00:19:36,238 --> 00:19:38,338
Um, and so can we talk about that?

278
00:19:38,338 --> 00:19:43,578
Because I think that I know a lot of very
well intentioned mothers who are cleaning

279
00:19:43,578 --> 00:19:49,758
it, doing all the right things, doing the
things to get it into the bin and

280
00:19:49,758 --> 00:19:52,038
hopefully it's being recycled.

281
00:19:52,038 --> 00:19:58,498
And so I know we've talked a little bit
about the myth of the recycling on one

282
00:19:58,498 --> 00:20:04,058
end, but now like it's in the news and
it's, something that people are getting

283
00:20:04,058 --> 00:20:05,486
very frustrated about.

284
00:20:05,486 --> 00:20:07,686
and they don't understand how is this
happening?

285
00:20:07,686 --> 00:20:09,966
I'm putting it in my bins, getting picked
up.

286
00:20:09,966 --> 00:20:11,296
what's the disconnect?

287
00:20:11,296 --> 00:20:15,557
How is this happening to the stuff that
can be recycled?

288
00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:19,619
Yeah, and something I'd like to reiterate
is it's not the consumer's fault.

289
00:20:19,619 --> 00:20:22,379
Like we were told, we were told forever.

290
00:20:22,739 --> 00:20:24,999
Yeah, it's not the consumer's fault.

291
00:20:24,999 --> 00:20:29,939
What we need is a call for more
reusability and just more transparency.

292
00:20:29,939 --> 00:20:32,739
If we're to continue to use plastic, we
need to cut down on the amount of

293
00:20:32,739 --> 00:20:35,939
chemicals used one because the majority of
them are toxic.

294
00:20:35,939 --> 00:20:40,499
We need to transition away from plastic
and single use plastic where we can,

295
00:20:40,499 --> 00:20:43,399
especially where we can, because if we
just cut out.

296
00:20:43,439 --> 00:20:48,459
single use plastic, we can reduce our
plastic production by 50%.

297
00:20:48,459 --> 00:20:49,859
Just not right.

298
00:20:50,019 --> 00:20:56,619
And 50 % of that 50%, so 50 % of single
use plastic is packaging.

299
00:20:56,619 --> 00:20:57,899
That isn't necessary.

300
00:20:57,899 --> 00:21:02,379
I don't need an orange that is wrapped in
plastic.

301
00:21:02,879 --> 00:21:07,499
But for all the parents that are really
trying their best, like continue to try to

302
00:21:07,499 --> 00:21:10,863
recycle just make sure it's organized, but
also just try to do more.

303
00:21:10,863 --> 00:21:15,263
reuse, just try to find materials that are
more reusable, whether that's a glass

304
00:21:15,263 --> 00:21:54,382
bottle or just a reusable glass bottle
that you can fill up with your cleaners

305
00:21:54,382 --> 00:22:02,642
and so I guess it's just a matter of now
that we know more about why plastic is not

306
00:22:02,642 --> 00:22:06,862
good for us and our health and the health
of the planet and the future health of the

307
00:22:06,862 --> 00:22:14,202
environment, which takes care of us
because we don't get clean water and clean

308
00:22:14,202 --> 00:22:18,722
soil for growing food and clean air from
plastic.

309
00:22:18,922 --> 00:22:20,238
We get it from...

310
00:22:20,238 --> 00:22:28,388
the planet from Mother Nature.

311
00:22:28,388 --> 00:22:34,058
the topic now to talk about is what do we
do to avoid it?

312
00:22:34,058 --> 00:22:41,578
You know, like you said, reuse, but
there's a whole, I think just hard,

313
00:22:41,578 --> 00:22:46,158
there's a lot of greenwashing happening
and there's...

314
00:22:46,158 --> 00:22:52,958
these refillable pouches for your cleaners
and your shampoo and their plastic.

315
00:22:53,798 --> 00:22:59,178
And so you think you're doing something
good by buying a refillable, but this

316
00:22:59,178 --> 00:23:04,738
thing has a lot in it and I'm gonna refill
my shampoo or my soap or whatever four

317
00:23:04,738 --> 00:23:13,658
times with this one, which is better, but
it's not eliminating use of plastics.

318
00:23:13,658 --> 00:23:14,190
So what...

319
00:23:14,190 --> 00:23:18,690
types of things do you do besides make
your own cleaner and reuse that bottle and

320
00:23:18,690 --> 00:23:21,230
use a water bottle for your water?

321
00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:23,142
What types of things do you do?

322
00:23:23,663 --> 00:23:29,123
So the types of things we do is we try to
do shopping for local farmers markets that

323
00:23:29,123 --> 00:23:32,023
aren't wrapping everything in plastic as
much as we can.

324
00:23:32,043 --> 00:23:35,263
Grocery shopping is the most frustrating
thing when you're trying to cut down on

325
00:23:35,263 --> 00:23:38,763
plastic because everything is wrapped in
plastic.

326
00:23:38,763 --> 00:23:42,403
You'll open a container that didn't use a
plastic, you open it up, well, it's

327
00:23:42,403 --> 00:23:47,223
pancake batter or something, and you'll be
like, oh, now there's a plastic bag that

328
00:23:47,223 --> 00:23:51,023
doesn't need to be in there, hasn't been
in there for 100 years.

329
00:23:51,023 --> 00:23:53,163
Why are they introducing it now?

330
00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:57,419
So it is frustrating, but if you buy local
and if you try to go shopping at a local

331
00:23:57,419 --> 00:24:00,439
farmer's market, if you can, that is one
way.

332
00:24:00,439 --> 00:24:05,419
We also use, we try to use shampoo bars,
which don't contain any plastic.

333
00:24:05,419 --> 00:24:09,929
So a lot of them will come in a cardboard
wrapper rather than a plastic wrapper.

334
00:24:09,929 --> 00:24:13,509
So that cuts down on our plastic use
there, as well as, you know, bars of soap.

335
00:24:13,509 --> 00:24:18,519
A lot of the times come in a cardboard
container rather than a plastic container.

336
00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:21,259
A lot of the times they can be.

337
00:24:21,334 --> 00:24:25,474
soap that's coming out of a squeeze
plastic bottle that's liquid.

338
00:24:25,714 --> 00:24:28,839
Yes, little things like that can be huge.

339
00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:30,559
Yeah, little things like that can be huge.

340
00:24:30,559 --> 00:24:33,139
They can also save you some money because
you're just getting more bang for your

341
00:24:33,139 --> 00:24:40,259
buck, which is I know is always what I
focus on rather than using, you know,

342
00:24:40,259 --> 00:24:42,239
plastic wrap to cover your food up.

343
00:24:42,239 --> 00:24:45,539
You can use beeswax wraps or even tin
foil.

344
00:24:45,539 --> 00:24:47,299
Tin foil is better or aluminum.

345
00:24:47,299 --> 00:24:48,319
I just use aluminum foil.

346
00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:49,379
I always say tin foil.

347
00:24:49,379 --> 00:24:51,299
I don't know the exact difference.

348
00:24:51,299 --> 00:24:56,446
I'm sure there's some generational thing

349
00:24:56,446 --> 00:24:57,406
Yeah.

350
00:24:57,406 --> 00:25:03,206
And also, I've used parchment paper as
well to wrap things.

351
00:25:03,206 --> 00:25:04,866
It's totally fine.

352
00:25:04,866 --> 00:25:06,936
I cut a lemon in half, don't need the
other half.

353
00:25:06,936 --> 00:25:10,426
You can just wrap it in that with a rubber
band around it.

354
00:25:10,426 --> 00:25:12,636
It's, yep, super easy.

355
00:25:12,636 --> 00:25:14,506
But it's like, you have to learn.

356
00:25:14,506 --> 00:25:16,726
You have to really like think about it.

357
00:25:16,726 --> 00:25:19,126
And there's like a learning to it.

358
00:25:19,126 --> 00:25:20,866
I'd say

359
00:25:20,866 --> 00:25:25,326
it's taken me seven years since learning
about it and trying really hard and doing

360
00:25:25,326 --> 00:25:32,106
research and like trial and error to get
my household plastic dependence down to

361
00:25:32,106 --> 00:25:33,126
nearly zero.

362
00:25:33,126 --> 00:25:41,056
I mean, I'm not perfect and it happens.

363
00:25:41,056 --> 00:25:47,226
at one point we were pretty close to zero
waste and I was like, Oh, wow.

364
00:25:47,226 --> 00:25:49,326
There's a lot of things we're not eating.

365
00:25:49,326 --> 00:25:54,206
because it's in plastic packaging, but we
kind of need to eat.

366
00:25:54,646 --> 00:25:59,066
So yeah, that's the hardest part, I think,
is food.

367
00:25:59,066 --> 00:26:04,966
And everything else is hard because it
just takes time to get past some of that

368
00:26:04,966 --> 00:26:07,666
misleading labeling that's out there.

369
00:26:08,086 --> 00:26:14,690
And also, I'm looking at ingredients that
are chemical -free and...

370
00:26:14,862 --> 00:26:20,472
good for the planet and sustainable as
well as sustainable sourcing, you know,

371
00:26:20,472 --> 00:26:22,762
for the people who are making the products
for us.

372
00:26:22,762 --> 00:26:27,182
So I look at a lot of different layers now
and it started with chemicals, then it

373
00:26:27,182 --> 00:26:31,822
went to plastic packaging or materials,
and now it's like all of that.

374
00:26:31,822 --> 00:26:35,002
It's kind of overwhelming and a little
confusing.

375
00:26:35,002 --> 00:26:39,418
Can you talk a little bit about green
washing that you have encountered?

376
00:26:39,791 --> 00:26:44,991
Yeah, so it is confusing and it is
frustrating and it can be a little bit of

377
00:26:44,991 --> 00:26:48,131
a pain, especially when you're first
starting out and being like, oh, I want to

378
00:26:48,131 --> 00:26:48,561
be good.

379
00:26:48,561 --> 00:26:49,511
I want to live better.

380
00:26:49,511 --> 00:26:50,551
I don't want to use palm oil.

381
00:26:50,551 --> 00:26:52,131
I don't want to use all these other
things.

382
00:26:52,511 --> 00:26:55,311
You know, Oreos had palm oil in them.

383
00:26:55,471 --> 00:26:58,391
Something stupid like that.

384
00:26:58,711 --> 00:27:03,231
And it's just greenwashing has become so
prevalent and it's something we worry

385
00:27:03,231 --> 00:27:07,711
about, you know, as Earthday .org too is
corporations taking over Earthday and

386
00:27:07,711 --> 00:27:09,487
saying we're doing all these great things.

387
00:27:09,487 --> 00:27:13,027
where these sustainable companies were
celebrating Earth Day.

388
00:27:13,027 --> 00:27:15,147
And you don't talk to them, you're like,
all right, what are you doing to celebrate

389
00:27:15,147 --> 00:27:15,447
Earth Day?

390
00:27:15,447 --> 00:27:16,857
Like, are you cutting your carbon
emissions?

391
00:27:16,857 --> 00:27:19,067
Like, are you not using plastic in your
facilities?

392
00:27:19,067 --> 00:27:21,867
Like, we just said we're celebrating Earth
Day.

393
00:27:21,867 --> 00:27:24,667
What do you, what else do you want us to
do?

394
00:27:24,667 --> 00:27:28,467
We're like, it's not the point of Earth
Day.

395
00:27:28,687 --> 00:27:33,527
But a lot of the frustrated greenwashing
comes down to that little triangle you

396
00:27:33,527 --> 00:27:36,047
mentioned earlier, the little recycling
triangle.

397
00:27:36,087 --> 00:27:38,575
That's thrown on every piece of plastic
now.

398
00:27:38,575 --> 00:27:40,615
even if it's not recyclable.

399
00:27:40,615 --> 00:27:44,755
The other big one we see is when something
says it's compostable, especially

400
00:27:44,755 --> 00:27:53,395
bioplastics, they are compostable in a
very certain set of conditions at an

401
00:27:53,395 --> 00:27:59,355
industrial site, not that you can just
throw it away into a normal trash can and

402
00:27:59,355 --> 00:28:02,295
it'll break down in the landfill.

403
00:28:02,295 --> 00:28:06,535
It has to go to a certain spot and that's
where it can be broken down in a proper

404
00:28:06,535 --> 00:28:07,331
way.

405
00:28:28,274 --> 00:28:33,754
when you were speaking, I was thinking
Earth Day is coming up and it's planet

406
00:28:33,754 --> 00:28:34,991
versus plastics.

407
00:28:34,991 --> 00:28:35,678
Yes.

408
00:28:35,678 --> 00:28:45,578
tell us a little bit about what your
particular initiative and what you do as

409
00:28:45,578 --> 00:28:51,218
director of the end plastics initiative of
Earth Day organization, because it's a

410
00:28:51,218 --> 00:28:51,838
year long job.

411
00:28:51,838 --> 00:28:54,406
It's not just one day of the year.

412
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:57,939
Yeah, so we picked our theme very
deliberately this year.

413
00:28:57,939 --> 00:29:00,559
One, because Placid is a huge issue.

414
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:05,779
And two, we're currently going through
negotiations for what's called the UN

415
00:29:05,779 --> 00:29:10,199
Plastic Treaty or the Global Plastic
Treaty, depending on how lawyer -y you

416
00:29:10,199 --> 00:29:11,719
want to talk about it.

417
00:29:11,779 --> 00:29:12,879
I'm not a lawyer.

418
00:29:12,879 --> 00:29:14,189
I'm not a scientist.

419
00:29:14,189 --> 00:29:17,759
I'm just a person that's good at
communicating these issues to the general

420
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:18,779
public.

421
00:29:18,959 --> 00:29:24,059
So part of my job is to go to these UN
negotiating meetings and just figure

422
00:29:24,059 --> 00:29:24,399
out...

423
00:29:24,399 --> 00:29:28,499
what they're talking about and then made
suggestions on the different options to

424
00:29:28,499 --> 00:29:31,909
have the most comprehensive treaty that we
can get.

425
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:34,049
So I hear from people all over the world.

426
00:29:34,049 --> 00:29:36,919
I hear from people in my local community
about like, what do you want to see?

427
00:29:36,919 --> 00:29:40,399
Do you want to see a reduction in
production of plastic?

428
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:47,179
And in the US or in the world, it's like
82 % do and then they, 87 % of people want

429
00:29:47,179 --> 00:29:49,039
to see a ban on single use plastic.

430
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:52,207
So, you know, majority of people want to
see this happening.

431
00:29:52,207 --> 00:29:57,947
Um, so my job is to go with teams of
lawyers and scientists and then go, not

432
00:29:57,947 --> 00:30:03,847
argue, but push country delegates to
propose the most comprehensive and the

433
00:30:03,847 --> 00:30:06,107
best treaty for everybody in the world.

434
00:30:06,107 --> 00:30:12,207
Um, and then my job after that or during
those meetings is to then take everything

435
00:30:12,207 --> 00:30:15,687
I absorbed through those 14 hour days of
just sitting in a room and listening to

436
00:30:15,687 --> 00:30:21,714
people argue over the meaning of source or
the meaning of what rule means.

437
00:30:21,714 --> 00:30:22,831
No.

438
00:30:22,831 --> 00:30:26,431
could be really fascinating, it could be
really cool, all the lawyers really deep

439
00:30:26,431 --> 00:30:30,991
down because they're like, wow, the way
she's arguing is great and I'm like, are

440
00:30:30,991 --> 00:30:32,791
we gonna talk about substance at all
today?

441
00:30:32,791 --> 00:30:35,191
Are we gonna argue over the words again?

442
00:30:35,191 --> 00:30:39,591
And then I take that and I condense it
down and just make it so like, hey, these

443
00:30:39,591 --> 00:30:43,091
are the updates, these are what's going
on, this is why you should care,

444
00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:44,295
especially.

445
00:30:45,678 --> 00:30:47,758
So how is that going?

446
00:30:48,271 --> 00:30:49,731
It's going.

447
00:30:50,311 --> 00:30:51,871
It's going.

448
00:30:52,971 --> 00:30:54,514
We're hopeful.

449
00:30:54,514 --> 00:30:57,674
battle that's going to be going and going.

450
00:30:57,714 --> 00:31:03,714
Now, why are there so many lawyers that
need to be involved in this if 83 % of the

451
00:31:03,714 --> 00:31:07,034
world wants this?

452
00:31:07,034 --> 00:31:09,962
let's speak a little bit about that.

453
00:31:10,255 --> 00:31:14,355
So, yeah, 83 % of the world does want it.

454
00:31:14,355 --> 00:31:19,895
83 % of the world does not control the
money, unfortunately.

455
00:31:21,115 --> 00:31:26,135
So what happens is we get a lot of
industry people coming in now and pushing

456
00:31:26,135 --> 00:31:30,615
certain countries, certain plastic
-producing countries, certain petroleum

457
00:31:30,615 --> 00:31:33,785
-producing countries to be like, hey,
plastic's great.

458
00:31:33,785 --> 00:31:35,675
Look how much money your country's making
from it.

459
00:31:35,675 --> 00:31:39,567
Look how wealthy this class is because
of...

460
00:31:39,567 --> 00:31:43,747
fossil fuels and because of the plastic
from fossil fuels.

461
00:31:43,807 --> 00:31:46,987
Like, don't you want to make sure that
that doesn't hurt your bottom line as a

462
00:31:46,987 --> 00:31:47,627
country?

463
00:31:47,627 --> 00:31:50,947
Don't you want to like, you know this
works, you know this is your moneymaker,

464
00:31:50,947 --> 00:31:52,707
why move away from it?

465
00:31:52,707 --> 00:31:56,727
So the lawyers come in and the scientists
come in to be like, look, there's all this

466
00:31:56,727 --> 00:32:02,227
evidence that it's, you know, costing us
in the US alone, it costs us $250 billion

467
00:32:02,227 --> 00:32:06,063
on our healthcare system, just on our
healthcare system a year.

468
00:32:06,063 --> 00:32:07,713
because of the issues arise from plastic.

469
00:32:07,713 --> 00:32:09,673
That's in the US, that is just healthcare.

470
00:32:09,673 --> 00:32:12,803
That doesn't include the cleanups, that
doesn't include the recycling facilities,

471
00:32:12,803 --> 00:32:16,723
that doesn't include the landfills,
strictly just healthcare.

472
00:32:16,723 --> 00:32:22,323
So globally, it's a trillion dollar issue,
trillions of dollars of an issue annually.

473
00:32:22,463 --> 00:32:23,210
So the.

474
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:26,672
seems as though it should be an easy
decision to make.

475
00:32:26,991 --> 00:32:30,741
should be, but with anything, it's just
super complex.

476
00:32:30,741 --> 00:32:35,551
So the lawyers come in and they make sure
the language is A, you know, gonna cover

477
00:32:35,551 --> 00:32:40,951
what it's one to cover and B, to hold
those country delegates and those other

478
00:32:40,951 --> 00:32:45,551
industry and lobbyists accountable for
what they're doing and just be like, hey,

479
00:32:45,551 --> 00:32:47,231
I'm calling you on it.

480
00:32:47,231 --> 00:32:51,431
Like you're saying that it's gonna save us
money, but in reality it's gonna do this.

481
00:32:51,431 --> 00:32:55,919
And they also write out the framework for,
you know, financial mechanisms.

482
00:32:55,919 --> 00:32:58,839
as well as the general rules behind it.

483
00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:02,819
You know, they looked and made sure that
everybody's included in the conversation.

484
00:33:02,819 --> 00:33:09,059
So we have informal waste pickers is a
huge, huge, huge part of our waste system.

485
00:33:09,059 --> 00:33:10,569
And a lot of people aren't aware of that.

486
00:33:10,569 --> 00:33:15,119
So informal waste pickers are people that
are essentially coming and picking up

487
00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:20,739
trash and selling it to the landfills or
they're just organizing the trash to make

488
00:33:20,739 --> 00:33:24,299
sure that it's going in the proper places,
but they don't get, you know, any benefits

489
00:33:24,299 --> 00:33:24,719
from it.

490
00:33:24,719 --> 00:33:25,703
That's just.

491
00:33:26,127 --> 00:33:27,207
They have to do it.

492
00:33:27,207 --> 00:33:28,357
It's their living.

493
00:33:28,357 --> 00:33:30,107
It's what they do to make money.

494
00:33:30,766 --> 00:33:35,926
And you're talking in other countries or
our country as well.

495
00:33:36,526 --> 00:33:37,403
Okay.

496
00:33:37,403 --> 00:33:42,073
issue is people aren't realizing like,
this isn't just a international issue.

497
00:33:42,073 --> 00:33:45,273
Like the United States isn't exempted from
this.

498
00:33:45,273 --> 00:33:49,283
Like we have waste pickers in the United
States that go through and they pick up

499
00:33:49,283 --> 00:33:53,063
trash and then they try to sell the trash
to landfills and that's how they make

500
00:33:53,063 --> 00:33:54,043
their money.

501
00:33:54,043 --> 00:33:58,263
And they're on the front lines of
absorbing these chemicals and they're

502
00:33:58,263 --> 00:34:02,263
digging through other people's waste to do
this.

503
00:34:02,415 --> 00:34:06,355
I talked to a woman from Portland named
Barbie and she's like every time I see her

504
00:34:06,355 --> 00:34:09,795
at one of these negotiations, she's like,
you need to make sure that, you know,

505
00:34:09,795 --> 00:34:12,675
waste pickers and informal waste pickers
are mentioned in this treaty.

506
00:34:12,675 --> 00:34:14,425
It's extremely important that they're
there.

507
00:34:14,425 --> 00:34:19,303
Like we are a huge sector of people that
no one talks about.

508
00:34:23,334 --> 00:34:26,194
I guess there's just so many layers to it.

509
00:34:26,194 --> 00:34:31,514
It sounds like your job is going to be
secure for many years to come.

510
00:34:31,514 --> 00:34:34,614
I mean, unfortunately, right?

511
00:34:34,614 --> 00:34:40,934
Yeah, there's a lot to be done still and
it sounds like, the bottom line is money

512
00:34:40,934 --> 00:34:44,394
is king and everything else doesn't
matter.

513
00:34:44,394 --> 00:35:01,743
People's health doesn't matter, the health
of the planet

514
00:35:01,743 --> 00:35:04,403
And that's not to say some countries
aren't trying.

515
00:35:04,403 --> 00:35:09,063
Some countries are trying extremely hard
to, you know, have the most comprehensive

516
00:35:09,063 --> 00:35:11,433
treaty and to make sure that it's truly
benefiting their people.

517
00:35:11,433 --> 00:35:16,143
You have, you know, the group of African
countries are trying really hard.

518
00:35:16,143 --> 00:35:20,163
The countries that are Pacific Island
developing states are trying their hardest

519
00:35:20,163 --> 00:35:23,643
because they're the ones taking in the
majority of this plastic that's floating

520
00:35:23,643 --> 00:35:28,093
around in our oceans, as well as countries
in Latin America that are, you know,

521
00:35:28,093 --> 00:35:29,487
trying to...

522
00:35:29,487 --> 00:35:34,027
do the best they can to mitigate their
plastic problem while also caring about

523
00:35:34,027 --> 00:35:35,427
their citizens.

524
00:35:35,647 --> 00:35:41,727
The bigger issue is that, like I said,
money has so much influence and, you know,

525
00:35:41,727 --> 00:35:44,207
petroleum is just liquid gold.

526
00:35:44,207 --> 00:35:47,431
So it's impossible for them to see past
that.

527
00:35:47,502 --> 00:35:52,382
Yeah, it's unfortunate, but now that we
know, we can feel a little bit more

528
00:35:52,382 --> 00:35:57,682
empowered to make different choices as
consumers because we can.

529
00:35:57,702 --> 00:36:05,102
And that there are enough things out there
to be able to choose from, luckily.

530
00:36:05,102 --> 00:36:09,722
There's a lot of amazing people out there
who are doing right by their company and

531
00:36:09,722 --> 00:36:31,162
their products in every way,

532
00:36:31,162 --> 00:36:39,602
these choices empower you, so don't do it
from a place of fear or worry.

533
00:36:39,602 --> 00:36:44,522
That's a place where I was at in the
beginning, worried about health and

534
00:36:44,522 --> 00:36:46,036
fearful about.

535
00:36:46,036 --> 00:36:47,626
the health of my son.

536
00:36:47,626 --> 00:36:50,346
so that was sort of the place it came
from.

537
00:36:50,346 --> 00:36:54,186
But then I realized that that's a very
unhealthy place to live.

538
00:36:54,186 --> 00:36:56,946
That stress that it causes is not good.

539
00:36:56,946 --> 00:37:01,546
That, you know, constantly stressing about
the plastic is not good for your health

540
00:37:01,546 --> 00:37:01,826
either.

541
00:37:01,826 --> 00:37:06,246
So I really had to take a moment to take a
deep breath and step back and just be

542
00:37:06,246 --> 00:37:08,706
like, okay, I can do what I can do when I
end up with it.

543
00:37:08,706 --> 00:37:10,946
I'm not going to stress about it.

544
00:37:10,946 --> 00:37:11,886
Rather,

545
00:37:11,886 --> 00:37:17,166
the reason I'm doing it is for the health
of the planet and for the future of the

546
00:37:17,166 --> 00:37:21,266
environment that supports our health and
wellness and life.

547
00:37:21,266 --> 00:37:26,346
So I really just had to shift focus so
that it wouldn't be a very like heavy

548
00:37:26,346 --> 00:37:32,346
gloom and doom like, you know, stressful
situation because it can get that way I

549
00:37:32,346 --> 00:37:34,670
think, especially when.

550
00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:40,430
it's just so hard to, you know, it's like
everything you do and everything you buy

551
00:37:40,430 --> 00:37:43,470
as a consumer is in plastic or made of
plastic.

552
00:37:43,470 --> 00:37:50,410
And it can get that way very quickly if
you are worried and fearful about it.

553
00:37:50,410 --> 00:37:58,590
And so that's one reason why I decided to
make this podcast is to not only raise

554
00:37:58,590 --> 00:38:01,806
awareness about these issues and speak
with.

555
00:38:01,806 --> 00:38:06,126
wonderful people like you who are out
there, boots on the ground, doing this

556
00:38:06,126 --> 00:38:13,446
work for us, for the planet, and to raise
awareness amongst everyone as to why these

557
00:38:13,446 --> 00:38:32,568
problems that we are hearing about are
important and

558
00:38:32,568 --> 00:38:38,438
I want to just empower people to be able
to make good choices without the stress

559
00:38:38,438 --> 00:38:56,278
and without the worry and the fear, I also
am going to be interviewing so many people

560
00:38:56,278 --> 00:38:57,006
who are...

561
00:38:57,006 --> 00:39:01,906
making products that you can buy with ease
and just know that they're good for

562
00:39:01,906 --> 00:39:03,366
everybody.

563
00:39:03,366 --> 00:39:10,566
So that's what I'm doing on my end to
combat the plastic that I think we as

564
00:39:10,566 --> 00:39:13,135
consumers just don't want anymore.

565
00:39:13,135 --> 00:39:13,735
Yeah.

566
00:39:13,735 --> 00:39:14,245
Yeah.

567
00:39:14,245 --> 00:39:18,255
And that's, that's kind of what the best
thing, one of the easiest things that

568
00:39:18,255 --> 00:39:21,455
consumers can do is just kind of like, I
don't want to spend money on this and then

569
00:39:21,455 --> 00:39:25,015
just go force the companies to transition
away from it.

570
00:39:25,015 --> 00:39:28,695
I'm tired of using all this packaging, I'm
no longer to buy your product.

571
00:39:28,695 --> 00:39:31,715
Eventually it may seem small, but you get
enough people together and you get enough

572
00:39:31,715 --> 00:39:33,445
people to kind of boycott that product.

573
00:39:33,445 --> 00:39:34,695
They're going to stop buying it.

574
00:39:34,766 --> 00:39:35,276
Right.

575
00:39:35,276 --> 00:39:40,126
And it took a village to get to this point
where it's this big of a huge problem.

576
00:39:40,126 --> 00:39:46,226
And even though it was unintentional on
our behalf as consumers who are just now

577
00:39:46,226 --> 00:39:57,106
finding out it's not good, And now that we
know, we can make new choices, I think.

578
00:39:57,106 --> 00:40:07,214
So moving forward, do you have any things
that you would like to share?

579
00:40:07,214 --> 00:40:15,774
about Earth Day and how they can support
Earth Day organization or your end

580
00:40:15,774 --> 00:40:17,374
plastics initiative.

581
00:40:17,711 --> 00:40:22,191
Yeah, just be sure to go to Earth Day .org
and kind of look into our toolkits as well

582
00:40:22,191 --> 00:40:23,651
as reports we're releasing.

583
00:40:23,651 --> 00:40:27,561
We have a map that lays out all the
activities going on all over the world.

584
00:40:27,561 --> 00:40:32,491
So if you're looking for a tree plant in
your local area or you're planning a tree

585
00:40:32,491 --> 00:40:34,411
plant in your local area, you can add it
to our map.

586
00:40:34,411 --> 00:40:38,431
If you want to do a cleanup, we have the
Great Global Cleanup Volunteer Program.

587
00:40:38,431 --> 00:40:42,051
So that can hook you up with a local
cleanup, the cleanup people are some of

588
00:40:42,051 --> 00:40:43,041
the friendliest people in the world.

589
00:40:43,041 --> 00:40:46,311
So I doubt they'll say no to another
volunteer coming along.

590
00:40:46,311 --> 00:40:47,343
And just...

591
00:40:47,343 --> 00:40:51,463
doing small things like that, just get
outside for Earth Day as well.

592
00:40:51,566 --> 00:40:56,266
Yes, be outside and in nature and talk
about it.

593
00:40:56,266 --> 00:41:01,126
I think also just talking about it with
your friends and your family is a really

594
00:41:01,126 --> 00:41:05,711
good way to raise awareness and get the
word out.

595
00:41:05,711 --> 00:41:09,671
Yeah, I like to think that my dad was the
first person I converted to not using

596
00:41:09,671 --> 00:41:20,531
single -use plastic bottles, because I
bought him a reusable water bottle, and

597
00:41:20,531 --> 00:41:21,790
he's been using it ever since.

598
00:41:21,790 --> 00:41:24,471
And he was like, I got down on my plastic
use quite a bit.

599
00:41:24,471 --> 00:41:26,062
I was like, good, good.

600
00:41:26,062 --> 00:41:28,252
Yeah, it saves a lot of money in the long
run.

601
00:41:28,252 --> 00:41:33,902
People don't even realize that they're
spending so much money on these things,

602
00:41:33,902 --> 00:41:39,652
you know, and you really don't need to be.

603
00:41:39,652 --> 00:41:45,982
Well, thank you very much, Aiden, for
joining us and for all of your wisdom,

604
00:41:45,982 --> 00:41:49,702
sharing everything that you know and all
of the research that you've done.

605
00:41:49,702 --> 00:41:51,680
I really appreciate your time.

606
00:41:51,823 --> 00:41:54,133
Thank you so much for having me and I
really appreciate it.

607
00:41:54,133 --> 00:41:55,214
Happy Earth Day.

608
00:41:55,214 --> 00:41:55,950
Happy Earth Day.