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Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that

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offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone

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out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something

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more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino,

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and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own

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purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired,

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and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.

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Adam Kristofferson is the founder and driving force behind musical

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intervention, a place where people can feel welcome and play music

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together no matter their background or situation. Adam grew

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up seeing firsthand the effects that trauma, drugs, and mental

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illness had on the people closest to him. Leading through foster care

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and special education, Adam discovered that the transformative

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power of music was his anchor and his calling. He has a degree

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in recreational therapy, and after receiving a grant through the National

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Endowment of the Arts in 2015, Adam began to work with the

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homeless population in New Haven, Connecticut. During this work,

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he saw the need to have a safe drug and alcohol free space for

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the disenfranchised to be creative, productive, and connect with

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the broader community. Adam then partnered with Project Storefronts

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and opened the doors to the Musical Intervention headquarters in April of

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2016 in downtown New Haven. Adam, thank you

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for giving us your time here and being on the podcast today. Excited to have

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our conversation. Great to be here. And, I'm sitting in that

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dream come true. So it's really, really cool. Awesome.

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Awesome. Well, I first heard you speak at a TEDx event

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in New Haven, and that's first where, like, I got introduced to you and

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your story and what you do, and was intrigued since then.

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And, you know, in prep this, I've listened to a lot of videos and podcasts

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you've been on, and I know that your story is is not maybe the most

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succinct. But, can you give us, like, an idea of, like, how you grew up

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and, some things that maybe seem pertinent to give us a a little

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bit of background about yourself? Absolutely. Yeah.

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So music, right, is kind of like the the thread throughout my

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entire life. The year I was born in 1983, my

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uncle actually had a big hit on the radio,

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and that was the beginning of things looking up for

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our family, as far as, like, my mother is concerned.

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And, you know, going to those concerts were a big deal, and seeing kind of,

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like, you know, the power of music and and, you know,

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going backstage and and learning all about that. But really

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music became rooted in me when my father bought me a drum set

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at about 8 years old. And that's really when I discovered kind of the

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world of music and and finding a safe place in that, and then a way

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to communicate with other people. So I had all these friends coming over and jamming

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for hours on end and just having a great time expressing

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ourselves. Yeah. And then never really wanted to let that

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go. Picked up guitar and, started writing songs, taken

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from some of my experiences in poetry and stuff like that. Then kind

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of snuck into college, found a degree of recreation therapy, which

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was a real just a, a meant to be moment, for

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sure. And, started working at the Yale Child Psychiatric Inpatient

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Hospital, where I continued to kind of write and record original music with the

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kids there, and saw the impact that, you know, music had on

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me, was having also on them, and then really was able to start

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working in other places and develop this passion

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project, kind of community service, all wrapped into

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1. And then, you know, from the original conception of

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having a space that could be a creative space, so it was called Cafe

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Cave when I was 17, to, 8 years ago

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in 2015, when I got the keys to open up a

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space that is, sober and creative

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and quoting studios and music and coffee

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and just good company, good vibes all around. And,

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yeah. So that's that's a full dream come true kinda

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moment. And so I'm kind of living in that. Even just today, we're

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jamming around here, and I'm just looking at all of these people working

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together, people that wouldn't typically be hanging out, just like

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laughing and enjoying themselves and and creating and collaborating

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together, and just super grateful to have this life,

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really. And it's just, like, it's pretty amazing to to watch it

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unfold in front of me. Mhmm. Yeah. That's that

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sounds really amazing and definitely gonna get into, you know, different aspects of

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that. I guess I'm curious to, like, what drew you to music

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initially? Like, what was it about music that made you kinda latch on

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and and not wanna give it up? Because it seems like it was a constant

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throughout your life. Definitely.

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Jeez. Well, I think having a famous relative,

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and then being successful in music, as

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far as like huge concerts, and

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something important was happening there. And, you know, that was

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pretty stark in comparison to like living in foster care, or

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living like in poverty, really. And

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so there was something about music being kind of a savior. And

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I had thought for many years that that was my uncle. That's the

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savior right there. He's the one who's gonna swoop in and save the day

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here. But really, all along, it was it was the music.

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And I think those those early experiences

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of having full access to getting backstage

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and seeing how the whole thing works and even getting a

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chance to hop on the drums before everybody got to the concert

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hall. Those things were those things were like

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paramount. And so the moment when I got the drum set, and I started learning

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the instrument, and learning how to be a musician, I'm pretty sure that was,

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kind of discover a world that I can exist

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in that's mine. And no matter what was going on in

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my reality, music really

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gave me a safe place that I felt

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important, I felt heard and understood.

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So, yeah, I think those 2 key components, having

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really close experiences to large concerts,

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and also, you know, learning, like learning the actual instrument.

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Those those things were pretty foundational

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for me. Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely seeing, like, someone

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that you know becoming a success, I guess. You know? And and that

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being an inspiration to kinda, like, let you know that that's a possibility for

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you. I know that they always say that, like, entrepreneurship runs in the

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family, and I think that because you can see somebody

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who's doing that thing, and then, therefore, it makes it a little bit more accessible

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to you because you know that somebody you know has done it. So that that

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definitely makes sense to me. But I I guess I also wanted to ask you

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about, like, you know, developing an identity, like, as a kid, like, when you

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when somebody first is, like, developing their own identity. I think for

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me, it's something that I've struggled with for a while because I kinda went down

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on a path that wasn't necessarily, like, the thing that I wanted

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to do and then kinda hit this point where I was like, who am I?

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Right? Like, what am I even doing? What do I want? And I think a

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lot of people kinda relate to that. Did music kinda help

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you solidify an identity, or or do you have any thoughts on

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that? Well, there was a lot. There was a lot going on, you know, in

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those formative years, middle school, right, high school, or elementary school,

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you're kinda just you are yourself. You don't really have a choice. Right? You're just

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kind of being yourself. And then middle school

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passion. Right? Certain people in your life start telling you different

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things, like, that's cool, that's not cool. And I was trying to desperately

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find out how I cannot be alone, because I'm an only child. And so I

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was like, yeah, I'll do drugs, and I'll do crazy stuff.

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And and and I was really following that. And and and sports were really

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big for me. Like, they they did keep me out of a lot of trouble,

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and I loved being competitive. Really enjoyed

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being competitive. And those were identities that

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I still hold pretty tight, as far as wanting to

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win and wanting to be great at whatever I'm doing. But, yeah,

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I'm pretty sure the big change happened in in the middle

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school and into high school, where I got hurt in sports, and I was

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really upset with the way I was being treated as far as like you

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know, I earned my, like, college litter my freshman year, and I was like super

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excited about that. And then it got stripped from me because I got in trouble

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in class, because I was a special ed kid, and I was, you know, kind

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of bouncing off the walls a little bit. And so I got really frustrated

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with that, and then I started getting really creative. And my

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grandmother turned me on to poetry when she was raising

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me. And she would read poems to me, and it was always really

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special. I had really special moments with poetry. And so I took

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up poetry before I started writing songs. And I

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think there was something about just hopping on a bus,

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going to Yale New Haven, sitting under a tree, and

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just going into my imagination and

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just writing about my feelings, writing about who I think I am,

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or who I am in this world, that really helped me

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anchor who I am. And so

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poetry gave me space to think, And then

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music, shortly after with writing songs and playing

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guitar and stuff, really became how to

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live. You know, who am I, and how am I going to live? And I'm

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gonna live with power and passion, and I'm gonna be loud, and I'm

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gonna express myself without thinking about how it sounds to

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people. And those were like, you know then I just like, within the 1st year

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of, like, writing songs and guitar, I was doing, like, open mics at coffee shops

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and stuff like that. Right? So at that point, like, hey, I'm a singer songwriter.

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Right? And whether or not

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this is graduating high school about this time. I put out an album. I

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was like, yeah, I'll get in the car, drive across country, just like playing music

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everywhere without any idea how the hell I had any

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money to do any of this stuff. I think my father just gave me, like,

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probably $1,000, and I had to, like, figure out how to get around the country

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and back in $1,000 because there was no, you know,

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safety nets there. And so it was just magical. And I knew that

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I was I had my identity as a musician, as a

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songwriter, and I stood for a lot of what I

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heard my my uncle sing about, which is love. And I always

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sang about that, sang about love and honesty and truth, and

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just wanted to be as close to that as I possibly could

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with everybody I met. And so that's really the identity

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that I still carry with me today. It's the

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just be vulnerable, and say what's on my mind,

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and do what I wanna do, but ultimately try to help make the

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world better in any way, shape, or form that I can.

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And that's from cleaning up after myself to building a

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place where people can just walk in freely and create together.

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So Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Thanks for articulating that.

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That's definitely something that I noticed about you. Like, I I saw you speak, but

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then we kinda bumped into each other at a networking event. And I did notice

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that, like Yeah. The way that you spoke with passion and, like, you you could

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feel, you know, your energy coming off you. And, like,

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it's definitely something I always try to, you know, go

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more towards. I'm not always the best at being a 100% vulnerable and

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and that sort of stuff. I'm working on it. But, yeah, that's it's cool for

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you to articulate it like that. I I I guess I'm curious as to,

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like, you know so that's kinda you at, like, graduating high school,

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becoming confident in, like, who you wanna be. What then drove

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you to go to college and and get the degree? Did you have

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any, like, plans, or did you just wanna do music? Yeah.

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I definitely didn't wanna go to school anymore, because being in special education, like, all

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I do is get the label, and it's just like it was just a nightmare,

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academically speaking. So I was dating a girl,

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Abby, and she was great. She introduced me to her mother, who was

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a social worker, and she also wrote songs.

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And I was just enthralled with her mother. I just thought she was like

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God in form. I mean, she would sing these

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songs, and, like, they had birds, and the birds would be like singing. But anyway,

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she she set me up to work with some of the women that she

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was working with at a a program called Village of Power. And this was

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part of Hill Health Center at the time. And she's like, yeah, just bring your

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guitar, write some music with the ladies, and, you know, and we'll pay for your

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time. And I ended up just loving it so much. I ended up doing, like,

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their web design and, like, doing all this other stuff. I was like,

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oh, like, I can get paid and help people at the same time. Like,

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wow, that's cool. That went somewhere right into

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my brain. Some kind of reward system happened there. So

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my girlfriend's like, oh, you should go to school, go to college. And I was

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like, I'm done with college. Like, I'm done with school. That's it. I'm just gonna

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make music, see what happens. And I started thinking

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at the time, I was working with politicians, and we started this thing called Cafe

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Cave Performing Arts Center. And we were we were setting up a nonprofit,

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and we're having, like, these events. And then it kinda died

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down, and it became evident that, like, you know, maybe I should go to

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college and see, like, what there is to see about that. And

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I passion to know the vice president at Southern at

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the time. He was a family friend, and there was no way I had the

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grades or the, you know, the SAT scores to get into

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to Southern at the time. And, yeah, he's like, what

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do you wanna do? I said, well, I wanna I wanna run this kind of

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community coffee shop creative place. I want

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to, you know, get a college degree, see what this whole thing is about. Always

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like, do you wanna be an RA? Do you wanna, you know, do you wanna

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be on student government? I was like, yeah, I'll do that. Of course.

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And so, like, he put me as an RA, right, freshman year. I skipped like

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a semester or 2. So I was a little bit older than the freshman, but

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I already had like this experience, this life experience of traveling the country, and doing

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different things. And Yeah. And so

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college was just really great for me, because it worked with my

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independence. Right? And I didn't have the label of going in

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as a special ed kid. I could just literally just be myself walking in, and

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what I did to perform, my grades would reflect that.

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And I wasn't likely to get kicked out of class. Actually, I did get kicked

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out of 1 class in physics, because I was, like, just my mind was blowing

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up, and I couldn't stop asking questions, and she asked me to leave because I

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was asking too many questions. So college is just really great for me. I

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graduated like a 3 day. Right? I mean, it took me 11 years, because I

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ended up leaving, and go falling in love, going out to Hawaii,

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and experiencing homelessness over there, and then coming back

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depressed and near death at the door. But yeah. So,

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like, I found my way back to Southern, got found a degree of recreation

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therapy, and then that's when I was able to, like, work at the dementia unit

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with with elderly who responded to music.

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And I was like, oh, wow. I can use music in this place too. Like,

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that's kinda cool. And then that door opened to work at

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the child psychiatric hospital. I was like, yeah. I record music. Like, hey. Can I

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bring in my recording gear and record these kids? And they were like, yeah. Of

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course. And that was just like, it's all she wrote. Just awesome. And

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so Southern really gave me that opportunity to be

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able to get these internships. And then

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years later, they ended up putting me on, like, the alumni magazine, which is crazy

255
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for, like, a special ed kid to be on the alumni magazine of the of

256
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the university. So super proud of that, and, super proud of Southern

257
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and everything they do for just a wide range of people.

258
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So yeah. Yeah. Nice. I had some fun too.

259
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So so with the degree, was it something that, like, you

260
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then went into pursuing musical therapy and

261
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then, like, trying to help people with music, or was it more so you were

262
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kinda already doing it? And then and then I know you got a grant awarded

263
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you to start working with homeless people. How how did that all kinda,

264
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intertwine? Sure. So, yeah, I got to a

265
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crossroads working at on the inpatient unit, whether I wanted to

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continue as a recreation therapist, which is a certification that you can get,

267
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and, you know, and and you work with insurance and stuff like that,

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or kinda branch shop and do my own thing, which is kind of my MO.

269
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So, I just said, let me just

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simplify. And and I started, I've left Yale after working there five and a

271
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half years, and I started just kind of going out to different

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facilities, and writing and recording original music. And, you know, these are

273
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people with intellectual disabilities. I was working at drug rehabs.

274
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I was working at all kinds of places. And I

275
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didn't have to work like crazy, because I got paid well-to-do

276
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what I was doing, which was which is a huge help from my

277
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supervisor at at Yale. She's the one who told me how to to charge. And

278
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I was like, because I would have just done it for cheap. You know what

279
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I mean? I was just doing what I love. But she's like, no. What you're

280
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doing is like very valuable, and like, not anybody could just walk into

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a room full of people and write a song with them. So this is what,

282
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you know, the typical price is. And I'm like, really? I can I can charge

283
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that much money? She was like, yeah. Like, try it. And I was like, okay.

284
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And that was the beginning of being able to, like, really value the service I

285
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was bringing to the table as far as financially so that, you know, I could

286
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really focus on those projects and not and focus on, like, the

287
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bigger picture of, like, what I wanted to shape my life into and

288
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and what kind of impact I wanted to make in the world. And so

289
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being able to work smaller amounts of hours in

290
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one location enabled me to kind of think broader, and

291
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start expanding my reach. So

292
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:04,205
I ran for mayor in 2013, because that's what you do when you

293
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have some time on your hands. And you're you know, the mayor at the time

294
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was saying some really crazy stuff. And, I thought, you know, maybe I

295
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,960
can make an impact on my community if I rent for mayor, living with my

296
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parents, you know, and, like, not having any

297
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money. Sure. I can run your town.

298
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So I I I carried 2 I carried 2% of

299
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the, the vote, which was crazy, because there was more votes than any independent in

300
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16 years, with a $250 campaign fund. Okay? That's

301
00:18:32,970 --> 00:18:36,815
a little brag, Little casual brag. Wow. But I realized,

302
00:18:36,815 --> 00:18:39,695
like, yeah, like, what would happen if I actually got in there? Then I would

303
00:18:39,695 --> 00:18:43,500
have to play the game, and I'm not interested in playing anybody else's game but

304
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my own. And as long as it works for the greater good, then I'm willing

305
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to compromise a little bit. And so I was kinda like 2013, I was like,

306
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alright, Adam, what are you gonna do now, buddy? So, that

307
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was when I decided, alright, let me just focus on musical intervention,

308
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and just, like, focus and see what happens. And that's when opportunities

309
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started opening up in New Haven. A friend of mine had a restaurant

310
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in on Chapel Street called Inspired Turkey,

311
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and which we we wrote a jingle for, inspired turkey.

312
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And he let me run open mics there, and there is a representative from

313
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the Community Foundation of Greater New Haven. And he's like, wow. Look at this really

314
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cool, diverse, kind of open mic. Like, who are you? What are you doing here?

315
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And I was like, I wanna make I wanna inspire New

316
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Haven. Right? I wanna just change this whole thing up. I want

317
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places to have art and music and creativity, and I wanna do all these

318
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things. And he's like, cool. Like, I'll put you in touch with

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somebody. And so I followed a chain, and then ended up with the

320
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Arts Council of Greater New Haven. And, they set me up with a

321
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couple small grants, and one of those in particular, I started

322
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working doing open mics at the soup kitchen. And that was just freaking

323
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awesome. It was just unbelievable. The talent that would just come up and

324
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start singing, everybody's eating, like they're enjoying the

325
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music. And then I started meeting these people who didn't really have a

326
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lot going on during the daytime, except for like hanging out at the green, and

327
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like, you know, trying to stay alive, and things like

328
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that. And they welcomed me in, and we started doing

329
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lives together. I, And we started writing songs together,

330
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and I was doing workshops at the homeless shelter.

331
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And just again, like just, you know, society is just not built.

332
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The one we are working in right now in the US is just not built

333
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for the creatives, the the ones who can't keep up with the education system or

334
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the job security or any of those things. You know, all these

335
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intelligent, brilliant artists and musicians and

336
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passion. So many people who, yeah,

337
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for one reason or another, couldn't keep up with the system

338
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and fell into addiction or serious mental illness,

339
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or homelessness, you know, you name it. And it's just

340
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it's really sad because there's so much opportunity

341
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in America if you can afford it, if you can show

342
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up on time. But yet, the creative people

343
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typically think a little differently and work a little differently. And

344
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so anyways, I sidetracked. So I'm around all of these really creative

345
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purpose, and yeah, we got kicked out of the place we were renting because

346
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the guy didn't want us to be he didn't want homeless people rehearsing

347
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where where we were renting, which I gave him money for. So I felt,

348
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you know, I felt what they were feeling a little bit as far as just

349
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not being welcomed. I mean, I knew that feeling already, but this was kind of

350
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like, hey. I just gave you money. We're using your space to rehearse for a

351
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show, and now we're rehearsing outside in December

352
00:21:39,850 --> 00:21:43,405
on The Green in New Haven, getting ready for a show. So

353
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this great opportunity happened right after that, where Project

354
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Storefront, Eleanor Slumber, who, was in charge of Project

355
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Storefront, knew what I was up to. And and she said, hey, there's this

356
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,280
place that might be available coming up, like, if you wanna take a look at

357
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it. And we just fell in love with the space. And

358
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after we were done with that project, I had all these people and nowhere to

359
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put them. And I didn't wanna just say, alright. Like, nice

360
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,919
knowing you. Thanks for taking part. Like, have a good life. I wanted

361
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more. And so I pulled the trigger

362
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on this place in December 2015 with

363
00:22:20,555 --> 00:22:23,375
no money. I mean, I was still on state insurance

364
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:27,429
living I was just breaking up with my girlfriend, so I was back to living

365
00:22:27,429 --> 00:22:31,270
with my passion. And no money. Right?

366
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And like, no idea how I'm gonna be able to afford it. And we had,

367
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you know, a good deal going where I didn't have to pay rent or utilities

368
00:22:37,815 --> 00:22:41,255
for 6 months. So I just started, like, you know, asking my dad for help,

369
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and he would like, help me build the walls. We got the permit to build,

370
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and it was just this crazy thing. And people just started chipping in

371
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and and donating their time and freeing up themselves. It's just crazy

372
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watching it all come together, and then, like, okay. But the money is gonna

373
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have to start coming too, and that was crazy. So we did

374
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an event, the grand opening, and, the newspaper took took out

375
00:23:03,429 --> 00:23:07,029
an article. And then Bob Cole, who is the COO of

376
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:10,425
CMHC, saw it, and was like, oh man, like, I want this

377
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for people at the Connecticut Mental Health Center. How could we

378
00:23:14,025 --> 00:23:17,405
help Adam what he's doing with musical intervention?

379
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And then he was able to, secure a contract where I could work

380
00:23:22,060 --> 00:23:25,820
on-site at CMHC. And, and that money that I

381
00:23:25,820 --> 00:23:29,225
had was making there, I would put into once the rent came in, which it

382
00:23:29,225 --> 00:23:32,985
did, I started just putting that money into into this space.

383
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And so it was all volunteer, including me.

384
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And, you know, it took me a good 2 years,

385
00:23:40,830 --> 00:23:44,675
two and a half years to meet my wife, get

386
00:23:44,675 --> 00:23:48,515
out of state insurance, and start actually, you

387
00:23:48,515 --> 00:23:52,275
know, breaking even. Wow. Yeah. That

388
00:23:52,275 --> 00:23:55,780
sounds Crazy. Yeah. It it sounds like

389
00:23:55,780 --> 00:23:59,460
the the the driving force behind it, though, was the idea that you

390
00:23:59,460 --> 00:24:03,140
had and being sure of, like, the place that you want. Like, I think it's

391
00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:06,745
it's interesting the different perspectives that, like, people have on

392
00:24:06,885 --> 00:24:09,605
business. Like, a lot of people, you know, you want a business plan, how's it

393
00:24:09,605 --> 00:24:13,290
gonna start making money, and all the specifics and stuff like that. But it

394
00:24:13,290 --> 00:24:17,130
seems like you didn't think about any of that and just had the one

395
00:24:17,130 --> 00:24:20,955
idea that you wanted and then started collecting people around you that

396
00:24:21,034 --> 00:24:24,635
saw the vision that you did. And then somehow, you know, it just came

397
00:24:24,635 --> 00:24:28,414
about and and things started falling in place. Do you think about that at all?

398
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,679
I I I wish it was that easy. I it wasn't that easy. Right? I

399
00:24:32,679 --> 00:24:36,075
mean, I I do have a business mind where, like, I had to put the

400
00:24:36,075 --> 00:24:39,375
business plan together. Right? I had to do the numbers, and I had to look

401
00:24:39,435 --> 00:24:42,875
hard numbers in the face. Right? But I was

402
00:24:42,875 --> 00:24:46,360
advised early to start a nonprofit and,

403
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:49,940
like, then take the small steps. Right? Get your board

404
00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:53,240
together. Start raising some money. Do a couple of events.

405
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:57,105
Right? And go that route. And I was like, well, that's not gonna happen because

406
00:24:57,105 --> 00:25:00,465
I have these people that need help right now. And the only way to do

407
00:25:00,465 --> 00:25:03,265
that is to make your own decisions, and you can't really do that with a

408
00:25:03,265 --> 00:25:06,850
board. Right? Board has to approve all of the

409
00:25:06,850 --> 00:25:10,450
decisions. So I just thought, like, I'm not ready for a board. I'm not ready

410
00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:14,015
to to answer to anybody except for myself and

411
00:25:14,075 --> 00:25:17,535
the entities that I will work for. And so

412
00:25:18,155 --> 00:25:21,960
the money, like, it it didn't it it was magic, yes, in a

413
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,720
sense that, like, the opportunities were coming, and that's,

414
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,560
like, spiritual. Right? How the timing of all these

415
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,154
things work. But being a good steward of the money and

416
00:25:33,855 --> 00:25:37,635
finagling everything, just just being able to

417
00:25:38,790 --> 00:25:42,310
navigate so many huge changes as a small

418
00:25:42,310 --> 00:25:45,850
business owner, right, from your own salary,

419
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:49,505
right, to the bills, to

420
00:25:49,804 --> 00:25:53,345
stipends for people who are helping out and who are really in need of stipends,

421
00:25:54,044 --> 00:25:57,580
to, you know, negotiating your lease and

422
00:25:57,580 --> 00:26:01,279
your rent and in a in a downtown New Haven space

423
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:05,625
full well while managing so many different types of personalities

424
00:26:05,765 --> 00:26:09,445
that are coming in the door as you are maintaining your drug and alcohol sober

425
00:26:09,445 --> 00:26:12,680
space, in a challenging environment

426
00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:16,180
with addiction running crazy rampant

427
00:26:16,180 --> 00:26:19,805
everywhere. And you know, people always say music

428
00:26:19,805 --> 00:26:22,965
in in in attics are a lot of times are

429
00:26:23,345 --> 00:26:27,159
happening at the same time, and and there is truth to that. But I think

430
00:26:27,159 --> 00:26:31,000
what we've been able to stand for is that music can be

431
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,755
completely separate from addiction and from drugs. And there is a high that you

432
00:26:34,755 --> 00:26:37,495
do get in music, and there's a meaning that you get from music

433
00:26:38,115 --> 00:26:41,940
that sometimes drugs take away from you. Yes, it's more enjoyable

434
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,780
because you are high, but at the same time, you are

435
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,420
risking a lot more by going into those different worlds. So

436
00:26:50,914 --> 00:26:54,595
I I carry myself like I it's all magic, because

437
00:26:54,595 --> 00:26:57,970
it is. But the idea of, like,

438
00:26:58,130 --> 00:27:01,809
running the business and turning a profit and eventually

439
00:27:01,809 --> 00:27:05,270
not doing things for free all the time became,

440
00:27:05,675 --> 00:27:09,195
you know, an important aspect. And then lessons now that

441
00:27:09,195 --> 00:27:12,955
I'm training other people in is, like, you know, valuing yourself

442
00:27:12,955 --> 00:27:16,580
and making sure that, you can

443
00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:20,340
stand up for yourself, and not get pushed around simply I mean, just by doing

444
00:27:20,340 --> 00:27:24,095
a good thing, people wanna push you around. It's that's my been my experience.

445
00:27:24,475 --> 00:27:27,615
I've been pushed around by the city of New Haven. I've been pushed around by

446
00:27:27,915 --> 00:27:31,675
by my landlord, and by many other entities within the city of

447
00:27:31,675 --> 00:27:34,720
New Haven. But I didn't back down, because

448
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:38,800
I stood with the people I was with, in the place that I created.

449
00:27:38,940 --> 00:27:42,375
Right? And I always try to go back to that place, especially

450
00:27:43,075 --> 00:27:46,455
when I get discouraged that it's not supported

451
00:27:46,995 --> 00:27:50,710
by entities that wanna take credit for it being in

452
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:54,250
New Haven, but at the same time, like, you know, not

453
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:57,850
putting any of the bills that cost to run the place.

454
00:27:58,755 --> 00:28:02,435
And Yeah. One organization in particular that that supported me

455
00:28:02,435 --> 00:28:06,195
in my time of need here is the Department of Mental Health and Addiction

456
00:28:06,195 --> 00:28:09,799
Services. We had just had a flood in the back here. It was about

457
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:13,640
3 years into owning the space. And I

458
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,465
was kind of like burning out, and it was just so busy. There

459
00:28:17,465 --> 00:28:21,164
were like I had like 30 volunteers. It was just so amazing.

460
00:28:21,945 --> 00:28:25,065
And then, you know, one of the representatives from Demus came in, and he was

461
00:28:25,065 --> 00:28:28,560
like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. You have people who are down and out.

462
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,160
You have Yailies, you have retirees, all mixing

463
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,995
and and just making it work in this place.

464
00:28:36,855 --> 00:28:40,535
How is this sustainable to you, Adam? I'm like, well, you know, I'm just living

465
00:28:40,535 --> 00:28:44,340
the dream. I'm making passion it work. And

466
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,100
they were able to put down a good amount of money every year so far

467
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,895
for rent, and to, to ensure that music's

468
00:28:51,895 --> 00:28:55,495
being made here. So huge shout out to the Department of Mental Health and

469
00:28:55,495 --> 00:28:59,255
Addiction Services for believing and seeing what what we've

470
00:28:59,255 --> 00:29:03,000
been able to accomplish here and continue to invest in that. You

471
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,460
know, although we've asked for more, and we haven't been granted more,

472
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,355
it it's gotta be its own timing. And I think that's what I'm also learning

473
00:29:10,355 --> 00:29:14,195
in this whole process, is that I can push, and push, and

474
00:29:14,195 --> 00:29:17,255
push, and push. And if I push and get discouraged,

475
00:29:18,020 --> 00:29:21,860
everybody else is going to pay for that. They're gonna it's

476
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:24,760
just gonna be a negative vibe. If I

477
00:29:25,780 --> 00:29:29,365
push and accept the results, right,

478
00:29:29,585 --> 00:29:33,345
or if I receive and and just let the results play out as

479
00:29:33,345 --> 00:29:37,080
they do, and return to the music, and return to the

480
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,920
smiles that that happen here on a regular basis, it

481
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,735
does somehow work itself out. It has been my

482
00:29:44,735 --> 00:29:47,875
experience. You know? Mhmm. Yeah. That's

483
00:29:48,255 --> 00:29:51,890
interesting. Do you think it has to do with, like, getting outside

484
00:29:52,270 --> 00:29:55,970
of yourself and, like, kind of leaning on the people that are around you

485
00:29:56,270 --> 00:30:00,105
and then kinda, like, almost fighting for them in a way that's best for them.

486
00:30:00,105 --> 00:30:03,945
Is that kinda like what you're saying? Or Yeah. The second part is

487
00:30:03,945 --> 00:30:07,165
what you're right. Fighting for them, I think, is the key component to everything.

488
00:30:08,010 --> 00:30:10,910
I do feel a bit of an island. I have a responsibility

489
00:30:11,929 --> 00:30:15,370
to this space more than any person, if that makes any sense.

490
00:30:15,370 --> 00:30:19,115
So holding the space is is

491
00:30:19,115 --> 00:30:22,955
is the first step, is to be like, alright, integrity, seek the

492
00:30:22,955 --> 00:30:26,475
good in everybody that comes through the door. Right? Give people the extra

493
00:30:26,475 --> 00:30:30,150
chances. Let them know when they've gone too far, kind of

494
00:30:30,150 --> 00:30:33,910
stuff. And with that relationship, you you have to

495
00:30:33,910 --> 00:30:37,265
kind of be separate, but together. Know what I'm saying?

496
00:30:38,845 --> 00:30:42,684
And that only works if your entire life

497
00:30:42,925 --> 00:30:46,710
if if your entire business, I guess you could say, it's been my life,

498
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:50,550
but is to stand in the gap for the people

499
00:30:50,550 --> 00:30:54,205
you're serving. Like to fight for them, to put what you've

500
00:30:54,205 --> 00:30:57,424
seen, and what you've experienced through them in

501
00:30:58,125 --> 00:31:01,910
the broader public discussion, right, about homelessness,

502
00:31:01,970 --> 00:31:05,510
about drug addiction, about rape and abuse, about

503
00:31:05,890 --> 00:31:09,695
prejudice. All these different things that are going on in

504
00:31:09,695 --> 00:31:13,455
people's lives that really can tear them down to make those things

505
00:31:13,455 --> 00:31:17,295
known, to make a person feel like they're heard, and that they can share

506
00:31:17,295 --> 00:31:20,980
their story and empower them to share their story through music, through

507
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,340
activism, through whatever, that makes it okay

508
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,745
to sacrifice maybe some of the things I miss by being

509
00:31:28,745 --> 00:31:32,345
completely present with people. I wanna be

510
00:31:32,345 --> 00:31:35,785
there for people, but I can only be there so much, because

511
00:31:35,785 --> 00:31:38,870
I'm holding space for so many people.

512
00:31:39,490 --> 00:31:43,010
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, when you say you're

513
00:31:43,010 --> 00:31:46,845
being present for for people, does that also tie in with,

514
00:31:46,845 --> 00:31:50,605
like, vulnerability? Because I I think the word vulnerability kinda ties

515
00:31:50,605 --> 00:31:54,365
into the whole thing because in my experience, the more vulnerable I've been,

516
00:31:54,365 --> 00:31:58,130
the more help you get from the people around you. Right? And and

517
00:31:58,130 --> 00:32:01,650
people can see the things that you're struggling with, and they become less of a

518
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:05,285
burden on your own self. And I think music is

519
00:32:05,285 --> 00:32:08,885
in and of itself a vulnerable thing to, like, sing in front of people and

520
00:32:08,885 --> 00:32:12,325
to, like, write lyrics that, you know, came from your soul.

521
00:32:12,325 --> 00:32:16,080
Right? What do you think makes and maybe

522
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,760
this might be my perspective, but, like, you seem to be pretty good at being

523
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,475
vulnerable. And and do you do you think about, like, what makes you good at

524
00:32:23,475 --> 00:32:26,355
that, or, like, what would you say to somebody who's, like, maybe not good at

525
00:32:26,355 --> 00:32:30,179
being vulnerable? Do you would you have any advice? I I think what

526
00:32:30,179 --> 00:32:33,480
you had said was really great, because, music,

527
00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:37,159
it really does give you the opportunity to,

528
00:32:38,020 --> 00:32:41,415
communicate with other people that you're playing with, with the

529
00:32:41,415 --> 00:32:44,955
audience, whatever, differently than you you might feel

530
00:32:45,575 --> 00:32:49,140
talking about sports or whatever else people are talking

531
00:32:49,140 --> 00:32:52,660
about. So I think, you know, the ability

532
00:32:52,660 --> 00:32:55,640
to improv, the ability to have a freedom

533
00:32:56,455 --> 00:33:00,295
to say what you don't know is gonna come out without having to

534
00:33:00,295 --> 00:33:03,575
think about or process what's what's gonna come out of your mouth when you start

535
00:33:03,575 --> 00:33:07,169
talking is a real strength. It's a great tool to

536
00:33:07,169 --> 00:33:10,610
have. And a lot of people don't allow themselves the

537
00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:14,414
opportunity to trust to fall into their own arms,

538
00:33:14,414 --> 00:33:18,095
and trusting themselves that whatever comes out is going to be

539
00:33:18,095 --> 00:33:21,670
authentic to themselves. And you know, you

540
00:33:21,670 --> 00:33:25,430
have to cast out fear to be able to do that. Because if you're

541
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:29,030
thinking about how is this going to sound with or how are people going to

542
00:33:29,030 --> 00:33:32,865
judge me, or you know, any of those thoughts,

543
00:33:33,404 --> 00:33:36,684
you're not gonna be able to do the trust ball. You're not gonna be able

544
00:33:36,684 --> 00:33:40,450
to to be vulnerable. Mhmm. And

545
00:33:40,450 --> 00:33:44,049
so the lesson to, like, improvisation, the

546
00:33:44,091 --> 00:33:47,875
passion to just throw yourself out there into, you know, 4

547
00:33:47,875 --> 00:33:50,595
bars that you'd have no idea what they're gonna be about, but you got a

548
00:33:50,595 --> 00:33:54,275
chord progression going, and you're just gonna start singing. And you

549
00:33:54,275 --> 00:33:57,809
don't know what it is, but you're gonna trust that whatever comes out, you're

550
00:33:57,809 --> 00:34:01,330
gonna ride. And that skill, I

551
00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:04,965
think, is something that served me really,

552
00:34:04,965 --> 00:34:08,725
really well in life. And, you know, of course, I piss off a lot

553
00:34:08,725 --> 00:34:12,460
of people by saying things that maybe I'm not thinking clearly, and

554
00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:15,900
I'm just saying them. And, you know, there's prices to pay for

555
00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:19,420
everything you do. And who knows what's right or what's wrong.

556
00:34:19,420 --> 00:34:22,755
Right? But, like, like, the opportunity to

557
00:34:23,215 --> 00:34:26,974
to give that skill set to people and to to get people to take that

558
00:34:26,974 --> 00:34:30,410
step, to be able to trust themselves, to say

559
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:34,630
what's on their mind without thinking, and then let the mind catch up

560
00:34:34,630 --> 00:34:38,094
to it, I think is probably the best advice I can give to

561
00:34:38,094 --> 00:34:41,714
anybody who's trying to be vulnerable. And

562
00:34:42,415 --> 00:34:46,220
maybe even makes it a little easier, because it takes some

563
00:34:46,220 --> 00:34:49,580
of the thinking out of it for purpose. Because I know a lot of people,

564
00:34:49,580 --> 00:34:53,260
like, they they really want they really think long and hard before they

565
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:56,665
say anything, and a lot isn't said.

566
00:34:57,125 --> 00:35:00,745
And, you know, again, whether it's what's right or what's wrong

567
00:35:00,885 --> 00:35:04,660
doesn't doesn't faze me. But there are a lot of people in

568
00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:08,260
this world that can use positive affirmations and

569
00:35:08,260 --> 00:35:12,055
words of wisdom and knowledge. And if everybody's

570
00:35:12,055 --> 00:35:15,735
keeping their mouth closed, then these words aren't gonna be spoken, and

571
00:35:15,735 --> 00:35:19,510
people are gonna be delayed in their

572
00:35:19,890 --> 00:35:23,590
freedom. And so that's why I truly believe that people

573
00:35:24,210 --> 00:35:27,670
can be that vessel, and creatives especially,

574
00:35:28,434 --> 00:35:32,275
who can create something out of nothing, have the

575
00:35:32,275 --> 00:35:35,954
opportunity to send messages to people that can uplift

576
00:35:35,954 --> 00:35:39,490
them, make them think deeper, give them opportunities

577
00:35:39,950 --> 00:35:43,390
into other ideas that they might not have put together. Again,

578
00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:47,075
joy, fun, sadness, empathy, all of those

579
00:35:47,075 --> 00:35:50,695
key human experiences happen because

580
00:35:51,235 --> 00:35:54,730
people share and they express, and a

581
00:35:54,730 --> 00:35:58,570
person can can vibe off that and then share back. And,

582
00:35:58,570 --> 00:36:01,630
yeah, that's that's it. Yeah.

583
00:36:02,415 --> 00:36:06,255
No. Yeah. I love that. And it's it's it makes me think

584
00:36:06,255 --> 00:36:09,875
about too a lot of times purpose are never,

585
00:36:10,015 --> 00:36:13,660
like, asked of their opinion or never, like, you know, their opinion

586
00:36:13,660 --> 00:36:17,260
isn't valued or maybe they're growing up, their opinions were scolded or

587
00:36:17,260 --> 00:36:19,980
told that's not the right way to do it. And I think what you're doing

588
00:36:19,980 --> 00:36:23,765
is you're you're finding communities of people and and with

589
00:36:23,925 --> 00:36:27,444
through music, asking them, like, what do you have to say? You know, with your

590
00:36:27,444 --> 00:36:31,170
guitar, what do you have to say? Yeah. And giving them that power to, like,

591
00:36:31,390 --> 00:36:35,230
be sure of their own inner thoughts. And I think that that's the greatest, like,

592
00:36:35,230 --> 00:36:38,575
gift you could give somebody. And Oh, that's cool. Like, man, to think of, like,

593
00:36:38,575 --> 00:36:42,414
purpose, like, that's that's just crazy. I was just thinking because, like, one

594
00:36:42,414 --> 00:36:45,775
of my favorite things I've been doing is called write a song with me.

595
00:36:45,775 --> 00:36:49,430
And it started years ago with a little sandwich board,

596
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:51,890
and it would say, like, you know, write a song with me, and I'd I'd

597
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:54,210
be sitting there on my guitar, and I'd have an empty seat next to me,

598
00:36:54,210 --> 00:36:57,605
and somebody walking down the street would hang out. They'd be either waiting for somebody

599
00:36:57,605 --> 00:37:00,964
or whatever. And we would just write a song right there. And it's really

600
00:37:00,964 --> 00:37:04,724
funny. My favorite part is when somebody's like, Oh, I don't know how to

601
00:37:04,724 --> 00:37:07,849
write. And then I just literally take those words, I don't know how to write,

602
00:37:07,849 --> 00:37:10,330
and I start singing. They're like, Oh, you just say whatever? I'm like, Yeah, you

603
00:37:10,330 --> 00:37:14,010
just say whatever. And then we'll make logic of it as we go

604
00:37:14,010 --> 00:37:17,535
along, but it's going to make sense. You just have to start.

605
00:37:17,755 --> 00:37:21,435
And I feel like that's, a huge like, tripping tripping

606
00:37:21,435 --> 00:37:24,975
spot for people. They just don't have the courage to, like, just drop something.

607
00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:29,420
And, you know, it's it's really freeing to watch people go

608
00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:33,145
through that process and be like, wow. Like, I wrote a song. Like, holy crap.

609
00:37:33,145 --> 00:37:36,925
Didn't ever think I was going to do that. And you kind of take

610
00:37:37,305 --> 00:37:40,665
the magic out of the music making. Right? You make it accessible to

611
00:37:40,665 --> 00:37:44,440
people. And that's what it was, right? Hanging around the fire, telling

612
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,279
stories of your ancestors through song. And that's what we're supposed to be

613
00:37:48,279 --> 00:37:52,035
doing, because our brains are limited, and

614
00:37:52,035 --> 00:37:55,634
music occupies the entire brain. And that's

615
00:37:55,634 --> 00:37:59,234
why we're able to remember song lyrics, but can't remember

616
00:37:59,234 --> 00:38:02,750
books. You know? Short stories are tough.

617
00:38:02,970 --> 00:38:06,490
But, like, the music opens the brain, and then the lyrics are just

618
00:38:06,490 --> 00:38:10,195
little crumbs that leaves all over the brain. And our brains are able

619
00:38:10,195 --> 00:38:14,035
to just put it all together because we have so so much emotion behind

620
00:38:14,035 --> 00:38:17,849
it. It's so engaging. And that's one really cool thing I like about, like,

621
00:38:17,849 --> 00:38:21,609
the research that we're doing with Yale now. So, like, one really cool

622
00:38:21,609 --> 00:38:24,995
thing is I met this guy, doctor Philip Corlett,

623
00:38:25,375 --> 00:38:28,895
because there was a research grant that the National Endowment of the Arts, the Kennedy

624
00:38:28,895 --> 00:38:32,640
Center, and the National Institute of Health collaborated

625
00:38:32,780 --> 00:38:36,560
with, called the sound a sound grant or a sound initiative.

626
00:38:37,185 --> 00:38:40,565
And it's for, you know, music programs or

627
00:38:40,785 --> 00:38:44,385
interventions that can impact mental

628
00:38:44,385 --> 00:38:48,090
health. So doctor Philip Korolets focuses specifically on

629
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:51,690
neuroscience, and his one of his specialties is

630
00:38:51,830 --> 00:38:55,475
hallucinations. And which is really interesting because my mother has

631
00:38:55,475 --> 00:38:58,915
paranoid schizophrenia with auditory hallucinations. And

632
00:38:58,915 --> 00:39:02,650
so we meet up. We put this kind of proposal together with songwriting,

633
00:39:02,950 --> 00:39:06,630
karaoke, song listening, and we give it to the NIH, and

634
00:39:06,630 --> 00:39:10,145
they they accept it, and we get awarded this, like, $2,300,000

635
00:39:10,925 --> 00:39:14,765
research grant to look over 5 years on

636
00:39:14,765 --> 00:39:18,560
how these small groups of songwriting and

637
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,000
music groups, impact people, and whether or not

638
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,780
the the distress level of their psychosis, of their auditory hallucinations,

639
00:39:26,535 --> 00:39:29,195
decreases or increases based on these interventions.

640
00:39:30,055 --> 00:39:33,895
And, yeah, after 2 years, we got some really positive data

641
00:39:33,895 --> 00:39:37,650
back that allowed us to pursue another 3 years of

642
00:39:37,650 --> 00:39:41,490
studying the intervention and unlocked, the phase 2, which

643
00:39:41,490 --> 00:39:45,155
is like the karaoke and the song listening and all these other things. And it

644
00:39:45,155 --> 00:39:48,915
turns out that people's language change in these in these groups. And

645
00:39:48,915 --> 00:39:52,195
I'm really excited. We have another year left before all of these data points are

646
00:39:52,195 --> 00:39:55,420
gonna be super collected and published. And and,

647
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,420
you know, maybe we can piggyback on this and do more populations

648
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:03,295
and and see, you know, how community

649
00:40:03,755 --> 00:40:07,135
and song making in community, that's about as tight as you can get,

650
00:40:07,435 --> 00:40:11,270
really impacts serious mental illness and how we can

651
00:40:11,730 --> 00:40:15,385
bridge the gap of, you know, people that are isolating because of their mental illness

652
00:40:15,385 --> 00:40:19,065
and bringing them into the fold of a larger community of people that are

653
00:40:19,065 --> 00:40:22,505
doing things that they do well. You know, as opposed to being like,

654
00:40:22,505 --> 00:40:26,250
well, all of the schizophrenics are over here, and all of the addicts are

655
00:40:26,250 --> 00:40:29,849
over here, and we just compartmentalize all of these populations, as

656
00:40:29,849 --> 00:40:33,595
opposed to being like, well, what about the arts? You know,

657
00:40:33,595 --> 00:40:37,375
what about sports and woodworking and and and all these different

658
00:40:37,675 --> 00:40:41,455
engaging activities, which is all recreation therapy, very, very,

659
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,720
very focused on leisure education. How can broader communities come

660
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:49,100
together and learn from each other like we should be

661
00:40:49,625 --> 00:40:53,465
and, living more full lives. Right? So that's

662
00:40:53,465 --> 00:40:57,130
the key component. Yeah. That's super cool.

663
00:40:57,130 --> 00:41:00,810
I mean, it's a area of therapy that, like, I never even really knew much

664
00:41:00,810 --> 00:41:04,395
about, so it's cool to, like, hear how it's actually affecting and

665
00:41:04,395 --> 00:41:08,075
and getting Yale in to get, like, numbers behind it is, like, the coolest

666
00:41:08,075 --> 00:41:11,755
thing. And I and I heard you say, somewhere, it might have been, like, a

667
00:41:11,755 --> 00:41:15,110
video or podcast, about communicating with your mother. And and sometimes

668
00:41:15,490 --> 00:41:18,930
it can be tough, but when you play music with her, she kinda, like, comes

669
00:41:18,930 --> 00:41:22,710
alive and, like Mhmm. I don't know. That that, like, really struck me and, like,

670
00:41:22,835 --> 00:41:26,214
made me think about, like, the power of communicating in that way.

671
00:41:26,434 --> 00:41:30,194
And, yeah, it's just it's it's like a a magic that,

672
00:41:30,194 --> 00:41:33,440
like, I think a lot of us take for granted because music is so accessible

673
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,820
nowadays that, like, you know, you put it on through everything

674
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,035
and don't really think too much about, you know, how it got there

675
00:41:41,035 --> 00:41:44,795
or, like, what inspired Yeah. It to get there. But, like,

676
00:41:44,795 --> 00:41:47,915
yeah, that's both good and the bad thing, I guess. But but, yeah, it's really

677
00:41:47,915 --> 00:41:51,510
cool to, to encapsulate music and all this. 2

678
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:55,350
things really work for my mom the most. Music is great because I can if

679
00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:58,315
she's kinda, like, out of it a little bit, I can invite her on stage,

680
00:41:58,315 --> 00:42:01,515
and then, like, start singing this thing, and then she could start improving, and then

681
00:42:01,515 --> 00:42:04,875
I can then we'll have a a good couple laps, and, like, I'll have my

682
00:42:04,875 --> 00:42:08,660
mom back. But the other thing is just really cool, which I wanna, like, I

683
00:42:08,660 --> 00:42:12,260
wanna know more about, which is I'll get behind my mom, and I'll just

684
00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:16,075
massage her back a little bit, And I'll get into that deep tissue.

685
00:42:16,214 --> 00:42:19,895
Like, I'm a Swedish, so I can do the Swedish massage. And,

686
00:42:20,375 --> 00:42:24,075
I swear, it's like a light switches in her,

687
00:42:24,430 --> 00:42:28,270
and she goes comes out for air, like, every

688
00:42:28,270 --> 00:42:32,109
time. And, like, there there's something really beautiful about that

689
00:42:32,109 --> 00:42:35,555
that I really wanna look into, as far as like massage therapy

690
00:42:35,695 --> 00:42:39,375
on, psychosis, and muscle tension, and how

691
00:42:39,375 --> 00:42:43,060
those things impact our our mental health. And, obviously, like,

692
00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:46,660
it's tricky. Right? I'm her son, so she enjoys a massage from her son.

693
00:42:46,660 --> 00:42:50,119
Right? So there's a lot of, like, things you'd have to, like,

694
00:42:50,355 --> 00:42:54,194
look at as far as, like, paranoia of of people and and, you know,

695
00:42:54,194 --> 00:42:57,494
different things, but there's gotta be something muscle kind of stimulation

696
00:42:58,194 --> 00:43:01,700
mixed in with, like, positive reinforcement from,

697
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:05,220
like, family or something. Because that's what it is. Right?

698
00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:08,885
Like, mental health is is something there's a lot of biological

699
00:43:08,885 --> 00:43:12,645
stuff going on, but a lot of it also is these, like, triggers and

700
00:43:12,645 --> 00:43:16,220
these these terrible lessons that we've learned, and and we've

701
00:43:16,220 --> 00:43:20,059
perceived that we have to so many gaps to fill and ways to

702
00:43:20,059 --> 00:43:23,500
protect ourselves, and some are helpful, and some are

703
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:27,244
not. And so, yeah. So, you know, this massage, something

704
00:43:27,244 --> 00:43:30,285
as simple as going behind my mom, giving her a massage, and then all of

705
00:43:30,285 --> 00:43:33,960
a sudden, she's like light on her toes, and we're dancing, and like you know

706
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,260
what I mean? So cool to watch that kind of stuff too.

707
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,494
Yeah. That's crazy. It's definitely super interesting. And if you've ever,

708
00:43:41,494 --> 00:43:44,535
like, read the book The Body Keeps Score, I'm sure that has something to do

709
00:43:44,535 --> 00:43:47,895
with it too, like the embedded trauma in the tissues and the muscle

710
00:43:47,895 --> 00:43:51,609
and somehow massaging it is, like, releasing that negative

711
00:43:51,609 --> 00:43:55,450
energy. Like, that's super interesting, especially in combination with music, like,

712
00:43:55,450 --> 00:43:59,145
how much healing you could do with that, man. Let's do it. Right

713
00:43:59,145 --> 00:44:02,184
in here too. I I turn the lights off, and it got, like, we'll we'll

714
00:44:02,184 --> 00:44:06,020
get, like, the, the chakra sound, certain chakra sounds, right, with the

715
00:44:06,020 --> 00:44:09,619
sound bed. Certain frequencies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I I do wanna talk a little

716
00:44:09,619 --> 00:44:12,920
bit about music therapy. So I'm I'm not a music therapist.

717
00:44:13,355 --> 00:44:17,135
Southern just opened up a music therapy department. I'm thinking about

718
00:44:17,515 --> 00:44:21,195
it. You know? But it's like, what I'm doing is so much more just

719
00:44:21,195 --> 00:44:24,740
like studio production. Right? And, like, I happen to work

720
00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:28,500
be able to work with people who express themselves differently than a

721
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:32,025
typical client coming to your studio to record their next hit.

722
00:44:32,025 --> 00:44:35,704
Right? And so, there's it's just an ability to work with

723
00:44:35,704 --> 00:44:39,450
a larger clientele, but like, the field of music therapy, I

724
00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:43,290
think, is really important, because it's very specific, and

725
00:44:43,290 --> 00:44:46,644
it has, a lot of really

726
00:44:46,644 --> 00:44:50,025
great, I'm gonna use the right word, applications

727
00:44:50,724 --> 00:44:54,280
in so many settings. And for people

728
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,800
interested in in helping people with music and their

729
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,480
talent, I think music therapy is just a really great way to do

730
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,025
it. I preferred recreation therapy because

731
00:45:05,025 --> 00:45:08,325
it's so much more broad. You can do music. You can do

732
00:45:08,625 --> 00:45:12,085
art as therapy. So for example, my wife is an art therapist. Right?

733
00:45:12,609 --> 00:45:16,290
And if I'm a rec therapist, right, and I'm doing art, I

734
00:45:16,290 --> 00:45:19,890
can't call myself an art therapist. Right? I can't call myself a music

735
00:45:19,890 --> 00:45:23,735
therapist if I'm doing music as a recreation therapist.

736
00:45:23,735 --> 00:45:26,875
Right? I'm doing recreation therapy. And so there's

737
00:45:27,495 --> 00:45:31,270
there's room for all of those things, especially in like inpatient settings,

738
00:45:31,490 --> 00:45:34,930
and and a lot of rehab stuff. But there's

739
00:45:34,930 --> 00:45:38,610
also like the dynamic. And this is like something

740
00:45:38,610 --> 00:45:42,295
important that I really want to like somehow influence

741
00:45:42,595 --> 00:45:46,434
in my life, which is the dynamic between a

742
00:45:46,434 --> 00:45:50,210
therapist and a patient is of a hierarchy.

743
00:45:50,510 --> 00:45:54,109
Right? And and there are a lot of rules for good reason to

744
00:45:54,109 --> 00:45:57,655
not cross boundaries. However, the person

745
00:45:57,655 --> 00:46:01,175
coming to you for help is very

746
00:46:01,175 --> 00:46:05,010
much identifying as the diagnosis. Like,

747
00:46:05,010 --> 00:46:08,770
I have this diagnosis, therefore, I can get services from you. And I

748
00:46:08,770 --> 00:46:12,610
just feel like even with the research thing, like, hey. Like, I have passion, or

749
00:46:12,610 --> 00:46:16,035
I have auditory hallucinations. I can qualify for this study.

750
00:46:16,415 --> 00:46:20,015
Now I'm identifying as somebody who has auditory hallucinations in order to

751
00:46:20,015 --> 00:46:23,390
get, you know, this great compensation, $500 of

752
00:46:23,390 --> 00:46:27,150
compensation. I don't know, it's 700. And, you

753
00:46:27,150 --> 00:46:30,915
know, like, we've had really great experiences. I just don't like

754
00:46:30,915 --> 00:46:34,695
that dynamic of somebody having to be like, Here's my diagnosis.

755
00:46:34,995 --> 00:46:38,770
Now I get a green light to get something from you. And I feel like

756
00:46:38,770 --> 00:46:42,390
that's more of an amen to something that,

757
00:46:42,610 --> 00:46:45,670
you know, you struggle with. And so it's kinda putting like a positive,

758
00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:49,734
weird, like, value on this diagnosis to be able to get, like, the

759
00:46:49,734 --> 00:46:53,275
housing. Right? The the benefits, the the the

760
00:46:53,414 --> 00:46:57,260
insurance. And I just feel like that identity is I mean, it's hard. How

761
00:46:57,260 --> 00:47:01,100
can you imagine not having a system that you have to identify as this

762
00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:04,885
to get that? But I feel like what we're doing at musical intervention,

763
00:47:04,885 --> 00:47:07,845
which is you don't need a diagnosis to come in here, you just wanna play.

764
00:47:07,845 --> 00:47:11,450
You wanna make music. You're coming in as a guitar player, not as somebody who

765
00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:14,970
has bipolar. Right? Like, there's something about what's

766
00:47:14,970 --> 00:47:18,654
happening here that's giving people their identity back, and their

767
00:47:18,654 --> 00:47:22,275
identity at their core, not their identity through their diagnosis,

768
00:47:22,414 --> 00:47:26,174
but their identity of what what they're passionate about, who they

769
00:47:26,174 --> 00:47:29,890
are, like, how they wanna express themselves. And

770
00:47:29,890 --> 00:47:33,350
I just wanna see more of that in the world. I wanna see more opportunities

771
00:47:33,490 --> 00:47:36,994
for the people who are casted out of society because they express

772
00:47:36,994 --> 00:47:40,535
themselves differently to now be, like,

773
00:47:40,994 --> 00:47:44,615
celebrated in the community because they express themselves differently.

774
00:47:45,390 --> 00:47:48,990
Yeah. And and I think another differentiation too is

775
00:47:48,990 --> 00:47:52,829
is one is something somebody is telling you and the other is something

776
00:47:52,829 --> 00:47:56,645
you're choosing. Right? Like, you're walking in there saying I'm a guitar player. But,

777
00:47:56,645 --> 00:48:00,244
like, if you walk in and get a diagnosis as bipolar, like, you're not not

778
00:48:00,244 --> 00:48:03,460
really choosing that. Right? Right. But you can choose to be a guitar player, a

779
00:48:03,460 --> 00:48:07,300
musician. Right. So that that is super interesting. That's like Yeah. Man, I could

780
00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:10,660
talk to you for, like, an hour about that, but Yeah. We are we are

781
00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:13,545
kinda getting to the end of our time. But I do have to ask you

782
00:48:13,545 --> 00:48:17,025
about purpose and, you know, your your thoughts on it. That's part of the name

783
00:48:17,025 --> 00:48:20,710
of this podcast, part of what's got me on my journey. What are your

784
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:24,390
thoughts on purpose? Is it something you think about? Is it something that's important to

785
00:48:24,390 --> 00:48:27,910
you? Yeah. Let me know your thoughts. Sure. Purpose is a

786
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:31,684
gift, I think. If you can visualize something

787
00:48:31,684 --> 00:48:35,365
that you're passionate about and something that you care about, and something

788
00:48:35,365 --> 00:48:38,680
that serves the greater good, the humans,

789
00:48:38,980 --> 00:48:42,359
animals, and the earth, something of positive nature,

790
00:48:42,579 --> 00:48:46,040
something instructive. If you can imagine your life

791
00:48:46,805 --> 00:48:50,565
contributing to those things in positive ways, and then figuring out a

792
00:48:50,565 --> 00:48:54,390
way to financially be able to sustain yourself in it, you know, you've got

793
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:58,230
kind of a perfect storm for, your purpose. Now

794
00:48:58,230 --> 00:49:00,810
there's purpose, obviously, you could pursue things

795
00:49:02,025 --> 00:49:05,865
that maybe you won't be able to get financially, rewarded, so you

796
00:49:05,865 --> 00:49:09,680
have to do other things to compensate for these

797
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,280
other things that you wanna do. And, and that's

798
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,640
called sacrifice. Anybody with children learn that right off the

799
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,275
rip. And I think that there's there's room for that in this

800
00:49:20,275 --> 00:49:24,035
thing, because, you know, it is a system created

801
00:49:24,035 --> 00:49:27,839
by humans, so it's not perfect. And,

802
00:49:27,980 --> 00:49:31,099
you know, it would be great if people can just be like, oh, I have

803
00:49:31,099 --> 00:49:34,859
a purpose to do this. Great. Here's the here's the green light. Here's

804
00:49:34,859 --> 00:49:38,565
all the money you're gonna need to do it. And so, yeah. So, I

805
00:49:38,565 --> 00:49:42,405
mean, I worked trades so many years, right? And while I'm doing the

806
00:49:42,405 --> 00:49:46,250
trade work, I'm thinking to myself, oh, like, man, if I could

807
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:49,850
just be making music right now and, like, touring and and making tons of

808
00:49:49,850 --> 00:49:53,345
money and and, like, having tons of, like, never mind.

809
00:49:54,765 --> 00:49:57,565
If I could be doing that life right now and not, like, sitting up on

810
00:49:57,565 --> 00:50:01,290
top of this roof melting, then, you know, I'd

811
00:50:01,290 --> 00:50:04,270
be living my purpose. And, you know,

812
00:50:04,970 --> 00:50:08,665
there's lessons that you learn, and appreciations that you

813
00:50:08,665 --> 00:50:12,345
get by doing the hard thing, by sacrificing, doing things that

814
00:50:12,345 --> 00:50:16,140
maybe you're not super passionate about, but they're paying for

815
00:50:16,140 --> 00:50:19,500
your way to be able to do the things you're super passionate about. And so,

816
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:23,345
yeah. So without purpose, as far as, like, even if you

817
00:50:23,345 --> 00:50:27,105
have a job that you were telling me before, about, hey, I'm not passionate

818
00:50:27,105 --> 00:50:30,545
about it. I'm making money. I'm working with the DOJ, for God's sakes. Or, I

819
00:50:30,545 --> 00:50:34,270
mean, DOD, even bigger. But

820
00:50:34,650 --> 00:50:37,230
I'm missing something. There's something missing here.

821
00:50:39,130 --> 00:50:42,775
And you visualized it, you saw it, and you pursued it, and now you're living

822
00:50:42,775 --> 00:50:46,375
it. And that's exactly what happened here. I saw what it was, I saw the

823
00:50:46,375 --> 00:50:50,220
space, and I knew what was gonna happen in there. I

824
00:50:50,220 --> 00:50:53,420
didn't see the people, which was the greatest surprise of my life, which is something

825
00:50:53,420 --> 00:50:56,619
you get to experience. Right? Every time you're doing a podcast, you get to see

826
00:50:56,619 --> 00:50:59,715
this other person. And you didn't know that they were gonna be there when you

827
00:50:59,715 --> 00:51:03,475
started it. Right? And so I think that's the most beautiful thing

828
00:51:03,475 --> 00:51:07,095
is the is the journey of the purpose. But, yeah, without

829
00:51:08,070 --> 00:51:11,850
without purpose and persistence, I think it's a tough go.

830
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:16,165
It's a tough go in this world if you don't have those key components. And

831
00:51:16,165 --> 00:51:19,525
so yeah. So whether you're lucky to be able to have your purpose, be

832
00:51:19,525 --> 00:51:23,365
your sustainability, your ability to provide for yourself and provide for

833
00:51:23,365 --> 00:51:26,920
others, or you have to sacrifice and do the the job that maybe you're not

834
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,140
crazy about, but you get to do the other thing with the other time.

835
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:34,234
That's, that's a blessing. I think that's the that

836
00:51:34,315 --> 00:51:37,994
that's the blessed life. You know? And, the impact

837
00:51:37,994 --> 00:51:41,580
you make on the world and the stories that you share, hopefully, do

838
00:51:41,580 --> 00:51:45,120
awaken those who maybe don't have the courage to

839
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:49,180
take the first step, just like the improv. Just taking the first step in

840
00:51:49,180 --> 00:51:52,945
doing the thing you're passionate about, taking all of the weight

841
00:51:52,945 --> 00:51:56,085
and the meaning away from it, and just doing it,

842
00:51:56,385 --> 00:51:59,859
just trust falling into yourself and doing it

843
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,385
is is the only way to get it done. Because you could think about it

844
00:52:04,385 --> 00:52:07,345
until the cows come home, but life is gonna come and and mess with it

845
00:52:07,345 --> 00:52:10,785
anyway. And so if it's if it's meant to be, and you're and

846
00:52:10,785 --> 00:52:14,190
you're purposeful about it, and you're passionate about it,

847
00:52:14,410 --> 00:52:18,109
whatever storm comes, you just kind of navigate through, and,

848
00:52:18,329 --> 00:52:22,165
you know, you expect it, and you enjoy the ride because you get to

849
00:52:22,165 --> 00:52:25,845
do the thing you're passionate about. So Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

850
00:52:25,845 --> 00:52:28,080
That's beautiful. Cool podcast. Thanks for that.

851
00:52:29,260 --> 00:52:33,100
Totally. And I'll definitely leave, all the links in the show notes for people to

852
00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:36,945
connect with you and all that. But, yeah, you guys have jam night

853
00:52:37,025 --> 00:52:40,785
jam nights, jam days every Wednesday? Wanna Yeah. Every Wednesday. Yeah. Yeah.

854
00:52:40,785 --> 00:52:44,540
Every Wednesday, from 1 to 4, people are jamming

855
00:52:44,540 --> 00:52:48,380
here, and it's cool. And then Thursday night open mics are amazing, because we

856
00:52:48,380 --> 00:52:51,775
have a drum circle from 5 to 6, and then open mic

857
00:52:51,775 --> 00:52:55,615
from, like, 6 till 9:30, 10 o'clock sometimes. And

858
00:52:55,615 --> 00:52:59,009
it's very diverse, very welcoming, all skill

859
00:52:59,009 --> 00:53:02,450
levels, all kinds of things. And that's at

860
00:53:02,450 --> 00:53:06,204
23 Temple Street, New Haven, Connecticut, and, musical

861
00:53:06,204 --> 00:53:09,505
intervention. Do it. Do it.

862
00:53:10,684 --> 00:53:14,300
Thanks so much, Adam. Thank you for listening to Working

863
00:53:14,300 --> 00:53:18,140
Towards Our Purpose. If you enjoyed today's episode, please share

864
00:53:18,140 --> 00:53:21,599
with a friend or leave a review at Apple Podcasts

865
00:53:21,740 --> 00:53:25,485
or Spotify. And if you'd like to support the show, you can

866
00:53:25,485 --> 00:53:29,325
go to my website, working towards our purpose, where you could

867
00:53:29,325 --> 00:53:32,785
purchase Working Towards Our Purpose official merchandise.

868
00:53:33,309 --> 00:53:34,130
Thanks for

869
00:53:42,510 --> 00:53:42,900
listening.