1 00:00:00,712 --> 00:00:03,484 Talk about the price but not the price. 2 00:00:03,484 --> 00:00:11,114 I mean, it's useful if you can kind of go a bit into how the deal was structured and 3 00:00:11,114 --> 00:00:15,314 in general terms, how the business was valued. 4 00:00:16,034 --> 00:00:17,234 But yeah, it's fine. 5 00:00:17,554 --> 00:00:20,494 Some people do talk about the price and a lot of people don't. 6 00:00:20,494 --> 00:00:22,100 So it's totally up to you. 7 00:00:22,100 --> 00:00:25,400 that where it's advertised people like to talk about it. 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,340 But yeah. 9 00:00:27,624 --> 00:00:29,418 where it's visible. 10 00:00:31,197 --> 00:00:34,958 Yeah, there's a lot of people on LinkedIn who love to talk about how much money 11 00:00:34,958 --> 00:00:36,398 they've made. 12 00:00:36,584 --> 00:00:39,944 Yeah, the only thing I'll talk about is I didn't realize how many wealth managers 13 00:00:39,944 --> 00:00:41,166 there were in the world. 14 00:00:41,166 --> 00:00:42,446 Right. 15 00:00:43,806 --> 00:00:44,786 Yeah. 16 00:00:45,586 --> 00:00:46,496 Great. 17 00:00:46,496 --> 00:00:46,756 All right. 18 00:00:46,756 --> 00:00:48,366 Well, let's start. 19 00:00:48,366 --> 00:00:51,970 So yeah, could you just start by introducing yourself, please? 20 00:00:52,104 --> 00:00:58,924 Yeah, I'm Jacqueline O'Donovan, former MD of O'Donovan Waste Disposal, currently 21 00:00:58,924 --> 00:01:02,550 serial entrepreneur, chapter three of my life. 22 00:01:02,550 --> 00:01:07,550 Okay, and yeah, can you just tell me a bit about your background really and how you 23 00:01:07,550 --> 00:01:12,128 came to own a waste management business? 24 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:18,920 So back, and my parents are both from Ireland and they emigrated in the 50s. 25 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,040 They met in Ireland and dad came over first. 26 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:28,760 He worked for what we know as Network Rail now, but was British Rail then. 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,940 And then he sent the money for mom to come over in the 50s and they eventually 28 00:01:33,940 --> 00:01:38,240 settled in Kilburn in Northwest London and... 29 00:01:39,688 --> 00:01:46,528 Dad worked then as a lorry driver and then he went on, he had real big ambitions and 30 00:01:46,528 --> 00:01:56,928 he went on to becoming a demolition machine driver and he went on from that to 31 00:01:56,928 --> 00:02:00,828 actually owning a demolition company and then from that he saw that there was a 32 00:02:00,828 --> 00:02:07,848 need for waste removal so he opened his own waste company and I'm the youngest of 33 00:02:07,848 --> 00:02:08,456 four 34 00:02:08,456 --> 00:02:11,766 we go up in twos as a brother, sister, brother. 35 00:02:11,766 --> 00:02:16,456 So the older brother had got married in August 85 and three weeks later, dad 36 00:02:16,456 --> 00:02:20,656 unfortunately died of a massive heart attack at the age of 51. 37 00:02:20,656 --> 00:02:22,916 And at that stage, mom was 48. 38 00:02:22,916 --> 00:02:27,516 So we were thrown into, I suppose, just pandemonium. 39 00:02:27,516 --> 00:02:30,896 It's quite fuzzy that sort of two year period between. 40 00:02:30,896 --> 00:02:38,016 So I was 17 when dad died and then we just didn't know what was happening. 41 00:02:38,016 --> 00:02:38,601 So 42 00:02:38,601 --> 00:02:42,821 We just brought everything back down to basics. 43 00:02:42,821 --> 00:02:48,161 My sister went off to have my niece and I then was the only person in the office. 44 00:02:48,161 --> 00:02:53,061 Then we employed a school friend of my brother's and the four of us just ended up 45 00:02:53,061 --> 00:02:53,991 working together. 46 00:02:53,991 --> 00:02:58,561 It was never the plan, it was never discussed, it was just a need. 47 00:02:58,561 --> 00:03:05,601 Mom needed looking after, bills needed to be paid and we just all put our shoulders 48 00:03:05,601 --> 00:03:06,721 to the wheel. 49 00:03:07,144 --> 00:03:15,624 I just naturally morphed into the managing director role and I just carried on doing 50 00:03:15,624 --> 00:03:21,204 that role and all my siblings had major roles within the business. 51 00:03:22,604 --> 00:03:25,504 But yeah, they just let me, I suppose, be captain of the ship. 52 00:03:25,504 --> 00:03:26,414 So yeah. 53 00:03:26,414 --> 00:03:26,994 Wow. 54 00:03:26,994 --> 00:03:31,374 So, so all four siblings got involved with the business. 55 00:03:31,554 --> 00:03:36,854 And what was that like working with, with, with them? 56 00:03:36,864 --> 00:03:40,824 to say it is absolutely amazing. 57 00:03:40,824 --> 00:03:47,104 I think even what I'm calling now chapter two, because I've exited, is the fact that 58 00:03:47,104 --> 00:03:51,793 we still see each other if not daily, because mom lives with me, if not daily, 59 00:03:51,793 --> 00:03:53,284 at least every second day. 60 00:03:53,284 --> 00:03:55,364 We're on the phone to each other. 61 00:03:55,364 --> 00:04:00,712 We worked harmoniously for 37 years seamlessly. 62 00:04:00,712 --> 00:04:05,452 And I can honestly say that there wasn't one night that we left the office or the 63 00:04:05,452 --> 00:04:07,682 yard that we weren't talking to each other. 64 00:04:07,682 --> 00:04:12,192 And I know we are extremely lucky to have had that. 65 00:04:12,192 --> 00:04:14,312 And people say, well, how did you manage it? 66 00:04:14,312 --> 00:04:17,432 And I think it was a case we knew no different. 67 00:04:17,432 --> 00:04:21,852 Dad died at such a young age and we were all so young. 68 00:04:21,852 --> 00:04:28,092 We knew no different to, well, they had, they inbred a really strong work ethic in 69 00:04:28,092 --> 00:04:28,952 us. 70 00:04:30,024 --> 00:04:36,704 And I think that was due to the times back in the days, it was no dogs, no blacks, no 71 00:04:36,704 --> 00:04:38,444 Irish on the pub doors. 72 00:04:38,444 --> 00:04:46,024 They had that discrimination and they just dug deep and we just knew nothing other 73 00:04:46,024 --> 00:04:54,204 than a really strong work ethic and a real, I suppose, level of respect and 74 00:04:54,204 --> 00:04:55,004 cohesion. 75 00:04:55,004 --> 00:04:56,712 We just worked together. 76 00:04:56,712 --> 00:05:01,952 and we all had our lanes and we all stayed in our lanes and we're all very good. 77 00:05:01,952 --> 00:05:07,620 We're at the top of our jobs in our lanes and so together it just worked. 78 00:05:07,886 --> 00:05:09,886 And what did it feel like? 79 00:05:09,886 --> 00:05:15,026 Because I guess after your dad dying, that's, you know, it's a massive family 80 00:05:15,026 --> 00:05:15,836 bereavement. 81 00:05:15,836 --> 00:05:20,046 And then, but then there's the sort of practicalities of having to kind of take 82 00:05:20,046 --> 00:05:21,366 over the business. 83 00:05:21,366 --> 00:05:27,862 And how did it feel for the four of you to kind of step into those shoes so quickly? 84 00:05:29,672 --> 00:05:35,492 I think it was hardest for my older brother because with the Irish heritage 85 00:05:35,492 --> 00:05:39,152 it's sort of common knowledge that the farm goes to the eldest. 86 00:05:39,152 --> 00:05:45,672 So I think the three of us underneath the older brother just naturally assumed he 87 00:05:45,672 --> 00:05:48,532 was going to take the business off dad and we were going to go away and get our own 88 00:05:48,532 --> 00:05:49,532 jobs. 89 00:05:50,352 --> 00:05:53,752 So I think the pressure was more on him. 90 00:05:53,752 --> 00:05:57,896 Everybody expected him to be a carbon copy. 91 00:05:57,896 --> 00:06:00,316 of dad, which I think was unfair. 92 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:04,116 I think we've all got an element of mom and dad in us. 93 00:06:04,576 --> 00:06:07,496 I was unlucky enough to get dad's thin hair. 94 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:11,056 Yeah, all the others have got mom's thick hair. 95 00:06:11,716 --> 00:06:15,336 But yeah, I've got mom's jeans and they've got dad's jeans. 96 00:06:15,336 --> 00:06:20,436 So yeah, it was hard and it was a challenge. 97 00:06:20,756 --> 00:06:25,246 My first challenge was back in them days, everything was cash, cash into the bank, 98 00:06:25,246 --> 00:06:26,472 cash out the bank. 99 00:06:26,472 --> 00:06:30,572 big long queues at the bank, wages were paid, you know, little brown envelopes and 100 00:06:30,572 --> 00:06:33,132 you write people's names on things. 101 00:06:33,952 --> 00:06:40,252 Well before payroll and sage payroll and, you know, digitalisation of everything, 102 00:06:40,252 --> 00:06:41,692 facial recognition. 103 00:06:41,692 --> 00:06:45,692 And I remember going into the bank and the bank manager going like that to me and I 104 00:06:45,692 --> 00:06:47,632 walked over to him and he brought me into his office. 105 00:06:47,632 --> 00:06:52,424 And at this stage I would have been 19 and he said, I'm really sorry but... 106 00:06:52,424 --> 00:06:54,384 He said, you're all too young. 107 00:06:54,384 --> 00:06:56,634 None of you are going to be able to follow in your father's footsteps. 108 00:06:56,634 --> 00:06:58,424 He was a phenomenal businessman. 109 00:06:58,424 --> 00:07:00,484 So we're closing the account. 110 00:07:00,544 --> 00:07:02,904 And it was like, right, OK. 111 00:07:02,904 --> 00:07:04,234 Right, first challenge. 112 00:07:04,234 --> 00:07:05,504 Off I go. 113 00:07:05,564 --> 00:07:09,534 So having come from Irish heritage, I wanted to stay with the Irish Bank. 114 00:07:09,534 --> 00:07:15,744 So I went off to the other alternative Irish Bank and I was with them until 115 00:07:15,744 --> 00:07:20,344 halfway through the due diligence of selling the business, they decided to 116 00:07:20,344 --> 00:07:21,384 leave the UK. 117 00:07:21,384 --> 00:07:26,844 So we had to swap banks then to a UK based bank. 118 00:07:26,844 --> 00:07:31,752 But that was my first challenge, the bank saying, you're never going to make it. 119 00:07:32,382 --> 00:07:36,882 That's, yeah, that's, that's, I bet they're kicking themselves now that they 120 00:07:36,882 --> 00:07:40,042 didn't, they didn't keep that banking relationship going. 121 00:07:40,042 --> 00:07:43,862 What, from a legal perspective, how, how did it, how did it work? 122 00:07:43,862 --> 00:07:49,522 That it had your dad made a will or, or how did you assume control of the 123 00:07:49,522 --> 00:07:50,488 business? 124 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:52,840 We didn't. 125 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,040 Dad had numerous businesses. 126 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:57,870 We didn't know why. 127 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:02,160 We didn't know how they were connected, why they were connected. 128 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,720 We were just too naive. 129 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,140 So everything was closed down and we started O'Donovan Waste in 88 when I was 130 00:08:09,140 --> 00:08:09,940 19. 131 00:08:09,940 --> 00:08:13,270 So I was the only one that was there to sign the paperwork. 132 00:08:13,270 --> 00:08:17,820 So I suppose that's how I naturally morphed into the MD because I was the 133 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:20,080 person with the signature. 134 00:08:21,032 --> 00:08:25,832 And then it was, my next challenge was to run a waste company. 135 00:08:25,832 --> 00:08:27,472 You need an operator's license. 136 00:08:27,472 --> 00:08:31,532 So then it was like, right, you know, after running out of school, pointing two 137 00:08:31,532 --> 00:08:36,012 fingers at the teacher and it wasn't that way either, saying, I don't need you. 138 00:08:36,012 --> 00:08:40,592 I'm now finding myself in Wilsdon College at night trying to do a transport 139 00:08:40,592 --> 00:08:46,032 manager's competency test, which thankfully I did. 140 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,340 And yeah, I just, we just got on with it. 141 00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:53,860 I didn't realize how male dominated it was. 142 00:08:53,860 --> 00:08:57,160 People say to me, God, how did you survive in a male dominated industry? 143 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,460 Male domination back then was just not even discussed. 144 00:09:00,460 --> 00:09:02,500 It was just, we all had a job to do. 145 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:05,460 The two brothers went out on lorries. 146 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,040 The sister was at home just after giving birth to my niece. 147 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,720 And it was just, we had to get on with it. 148 00:09:14,980 --> 00:09:16,966 It just had to be done. 149 00:09:17,303 --> 00:09:21,264 And then as we grew back, so there was probably, we only probably had about five 150 00:09:21,264 --> 00:09:22,464 lorries to start with. 151 00:09:22,464 --> 00:09:32,164 So as we started to sort of get things right, know what we were doing, I then had 152 00:09:32,164 --> 00:09:34,524 to find a new yard. 153 00:09:34,524 --> 00:09:39,084 So back in them days, you paid for your yard a week in advance only. 154 00:09:39,084 --> 00:09:40,264 That's how it worked. 155 00:09:40,264 --> 00:09:44,244 But of course now it's all leases and freeholds and stuff like that. 156 00:09:44,244 --> 00:09:45,044 So. 157 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:50,020 A lease came up in Tottenham for a yard and it was like a 10 year lease. 158 00:09:50,020 --> 00:09:52,260 You know, at 19, signing a 10 year lease. 159 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:55,740 Please believe me, it's like signing your life away. 160 00:09:57,180 --> 00:10:03,180 And I had to sign it and you know, we had six offices but we only needed two desks. 161 00:10:03,180 --> 00:10:06,160 It was only me and another girl called Trezell that went to school with my 162 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,780 brother that was up for me. 163 00:10:07,780 --> 00:10:11,040 And it was like, well, we just closed the rest of the offices off because we didn't 164 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:11,920 need them. 165 00:10:12,352 --> 00:10:19,732 to going to actually outgrowing that site was quite sort of, yeah, I had a little 166 00:10:19,732 --> 00:10:23,832 chuckle when I think back that we closed all the offices off because they didn't 167 00:10:23,832 --> 00:10:27,552 need them and then it was like, my God, we've got not enough space. 168 00:10:28,432 --> 00:10:35,872 And as we grew, I suppose that they just, if there was a major decision to be made, 169 00:10:35,872 --> 00:10:39,196 I would place it on the table and I'd say, look, you know, 170 00:10:39,432 --> 00:10:42,092 we've got this decision, we can do X or Y. 171 00:10:42,092 --> 00:10:45,292 And they would all turn around and say, whatever you think, Jack. 172 00:10:45,292 --> 00:10:49,292 And then the decision, I would make the decision. 173 00:10:49,592 --> 00:10:54,792 And touch wood, I'm happy to say that every decision I made, both in my personal 174 00:10:54,792 --> 00:11:00,192 life and my business life, I'm absolutely, I've got no regrets whatsoever. 175 00:11:00,692 --> 00:11:04,646 So yeah, it just was fantastic. 176 00:11:04,646 --> 00:11:05,126 Yeah. 177 00:11:05,126 --> 00:11:07,456 So talk to me a bit about the growth of the business. 178 00:11:07,456 --> 00:11:12,806 So was it 37 years from your dad dying to selling the business? 179 00:11:12,806 --> 00:11:16,626 So how did it sort of grow and evolve over that time? 180 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:23,700 So I think we had at the very beginning, we just had natural growth. 181 00:11:24,820 --> 00:11:28,440 People knew the name, knew what happened to dad. 182 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:35,440 I think dad's funeral was probably one of the biggest London I'd ever seen in the 183 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,280 Irish community. 184 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,960 It was just absolutely massive. 185 00:11:40,904 --> 00:11:46,424 You know, we used to live in North London and Wood Green was where we bought. 186 00:11:46,424 --> 00:11:52,064 We had the mass and we just bought the whole place to a standstill. 187 00:11:52,064 --> 00:11:53,184 There was cars everywhere. 188 00:11:53,184 --> 00:11:57,084 I mean, he was a phenomenal character and businessman. 189 00:11:58,444 --> 00:12:09,640 So I think people sort of came to us because they had allegiance to my father. 190 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,620 So I would give them the business because we knew Joe. 191 00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:18,120 And that was a natural sort of growth. 192 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,980 And then I started looking at things. 193 00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:24,860 Then the environment agency brought out a change in licensing. 194 00:12:24,860 --> 00:12:26,990 So then I had to get a waste qualification. 195 00:12:26,990 --> 00:12:33,590 So there I was back doing an NVQ whilst I was actually pregnant. 196 00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:38,840 So I'd got married in my early 30s, married for about a year and got pregnant. 197 00:12:39,496 --> 00:12:43,336 It took me about 18 months to do this Waste Qualification and it was 198 00:12:43,336 --> 00:12:47,256 exceptionally academic and I'm not academic. 199 00:12:47,256 --> 00:12:50,196 I'm a really plain talker. 200 00:12:50,316 --> 00:12:51,716 Keep it simple. 201 00:12:51,716 --> 00:12:52,736 It does it for me. 202 00:12:52,736 --> 00:12:54,316 It works for me. 203 00:12:54,376 --> 00:13:03,476 And I got the Waste Qualification and then I started to notice that our industry was 204 00:13:03,476 --> 00:13:05,996 just so far behind any other industry. 205 00:13:06,016 --> 00:13:07,916 So I... 206 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:14,380 went on a one -woman crusade to bring the waste industry into the 21st century. 207 00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:19,320 And I think by the time I left it, I think I had sort of had a good shift in the 208 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:20,600 right direction. 209 00:13:20,780 --> 00:13:25,019 I've got an awards cabinet that any football team would be proud of. 210 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,660 So I got recognized for the work I did. 211 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:34,260 But yeah, it was, so I then went away and done a health and safety course, which was 212 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:37,096 one day a week release at Barnet College. 213 00:13:37,096 --> 00:13:44,236 So I'm a transport manager, I've got waste qualification and I've got, I'm a health 214 00:13:44,236 --> 00:13:45,596 and safety officer as well. 215 00:13:45,596 --> 00:13:52,236 So yeah, I just, I suppose my mantra was, if I can't do it, I can't expect you to do 216 00:13:52,236 --> 00:13:53,016 it. 217 00:13:53,016 --> 00:13:57,516 So I went away and did it and then showed them how to do it. 218 00:13:57,516 --> 00:14:01,756 So one of my mottos was always every day is an education and I love learning 219 00:14:01,756 --> 00:14:04,726 something every day or I love teaching something every day. 220 00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:10,388 And so what kind of size did the business get to before you sold? 221 00:14:10,504 --> 00:14:12,204 keep freezing on me. 222 00:14:17,006 --> 00:14:19,166 Sorry, did I freeze there a bit? 223 00:14:20,328 --> 00:14:21,638 Yeah, you're freezing a little bit. 224 00:14:21,638 --> 00:14:23,048 Yeah, I'm not, but you are. 225 00:14:23,048 --> 00:14:24,058 I don't know why. 226 00:14:24,058 --> 00:14:29,462 I can see we've got 98 % uploading above your head, but that's what it is. 227 00:14:29,462 --> 00:14:34,002 the audio and the video locally and then uploads it. 228 00:14:34,022 --> 00:14:38,142 So any sort of glitches won't come through in the recording. 229 00:14:41,742 --> 00:14:43,002 So yeah, my question. 230 00:14:43,522 --> 00:14:44,222 Yes, that's right. 231 00:14:44,222 --> 00:14:48,808 So what kind of size did the business get to before you sold? 232 00:14:48,808 --> 00:14:59,488 So it got to 100 SUV vehicles and about 185 staff and we had one, two, three, 233 00:14:59,488 --> 00:15:01,378 four, five depots. 234 00:15:01,378 --> 00:15:05,708 So we had expanded quite rapidly. 235 00:15:05,708 --> 00:15:10,908 We were one of London's, probably one of London's largest leading independents. 236 00:15:10,908 --> 00:15:16,168 We were definitely well ahead of any of our competitors. 237 00:15:16,168 --> 00:15:20,868 with regards to sustainability, safety, training. 238 00:15:20,868 --> 00:15:28,488 So with all my work and all my working groups and all my input, we became an 239 00:15:28,488 --> 00:15:29,948 employer of choice. 240 00:15:29,968 --> 00:15:37,988 So it had a really positive impact on the type of driver or person that we were 241 00:15:37,988 --> 00:15:40,008 attracting to join us. 242 00:15:40,008 --> 00:15:44,048 People wanted to work for us because they could see we were doing it right. 243 00:15:44,048 --> 00:15:45,992 They could see it was fun. 244 00:15:45,992 --> 00:15:48,622 and yeah, we became an employer of choice. 245 00:15:48,622 --> 00:15:54,152 So I think when that realization happened, that was probably one of those moments 246 00:15:54,152 --> 00:16:00,072 that I sort of, that was a sort of like a methodical pat on the back sort of thing. 247 00:16:00,972 --> 00:16:02,038 And I think. 248 00:16:02,038 --> 00:16:06,378 the roles of your brothers and sisters towards the end? 249 00:16:06,378 --> 00:16:08,458 Were your brothers still driving? 250 00:16:08,648 --> 00:16:14,448 No, no, no, you mean the brothers, the older brother came off the lorries first. 251 00:16:14,688 --> 00:16:22,768 So as we got permission, as we turned the Tottenham Yard into a transfer station, 252 00:16:22,768 --> 00:16:26,388 the brother came out of the lorry to run the transfer station. 253 00:16:26,388 --> 00:16:28,768 Then we bought another yard next door. 254 00:16:28,768 --> 00:16:34,608 So then we had two yards and then we started getting into making recycled 255 00:16:34,608 --> 00:16:35,496 aggregate. 256 00:16:35,496 --> 00:16:37,576 that was in Stratford, so that was another yard. 257 00:16:37,576 --> 00:16:40,956 So then the other brother came off the lorry and he went running the Stratford 258 00:16:40,956 --> 00:16:41,776 yard. 259 00:16:41,776 --> 00:16:47,916 And as we grew bigger and bigger, the older brother would choose all the types 260 00:16:47,916 --> 00:16:52,936 of machines, lorries, what we needed, what needed to be done, look after the 261 00:16:52,936 --> 00:16:54,896 maintenance, the mechanics. 262 00:16:55,216 --> 00:16:59,976 And then the other brother would look after the yards, make sure everything was, 263 00:16:59,976 --> 00:17:02,716 everybody was where they're supposed to be, everything was doing what it was 264 00:17:02,716 --> 00:17:03,752 supposed to do. 265 00:17:03,752 --> 00:17:07,972 And then the sister headed up the largest part of the business, which was Skip Hire. 266 00:17:07,972 --> 00:17:10,902 So Skip Hire was 50 % of the turnover. 267 00:17:10,902 --> 00:17:18,092 So she completely dominated and ran that department because that was the main 268 00:17:18,092 --> 00:17:19,592 revenue stream. 269 00:17:19,731 --> 00:17:27,132 People, I suppose people just looked at us as a skip company, didn't realize that we 270 00:17:27,132 --> 00:17:29,064 actually did a lot more than skips. 271 00:17:29,064 --> 00:17:34,524 So that was why that department was the biggest and she overseen the department 272 00:17:34,524 --> 00:17:35,992 for years. 273 00:17:37,038 --> 00:17:43,588 And okay, so in terms of sort of ownership, were you 25 % each? 274 00:17:43,588 --> 00:17:45,992 Was it evenly split between the four of you? 275 00:17:45,992 --> 00:17:53,472 No, it was, I was 100 % shareholder and it was just simply because I was the one that 276 00:17:53,472 --> 00:17:54,272 was signing everything. 277 00:17:54,272 --> 00:17:56,212 I was the one that was there. 278 00:17:56,212 --> 00:17:57,762 It was just easier. 279 00:17:57,762 --> 00:17:59,912 It was just more streamlined. 280 00:18:00,932 --> 00:18:02,182 But we were all in it. 281 00:18:02,182 --> 00:18:03,392 We're all in it together. 282 00:18:03,392 --> 00:18:08,112 And I don't think at any point did any of us go, actually, I don't want to be here. 283 00:18:08,112 --> 00:18:12,442 I want to be a nurse or an astronaut or anything like that. 284 00:18:12,442 --> 00:18:15,432 I think we just, we just knew that 285 00:18:15,432 --> 00:18:25,932 we had to do this for mum, that mum needed us to help her pay bills and stuff like 286 00:18:25,932 --> 00:18:26,062 that. 287 00:18:26,062 --> 00:18:32,772 And I think as the company grew bigger, I felt a real responsibility for people and 288 00:18:32,772 --> 00:18:40,052 their families and that I had to keep thinking of ways of keeping us fresh, new, 289 00:18:40,052 --> 00:18:45,194 ahead of the competition, which I did tenfold. 290 00:18:45,448 --> 00:18:48,748 So, you know, I was talking about sustainability. 291 00:18:48,748 --> 00:18:55,088 We weren't then filling waste years and years before people, other people, you 292 00:18:55,088 --> 00:18:56,548 know, some people are still doing it. 293 00:18:56,548 --> 00:19:01,208 And then we went digital in the skip department and we were the first to go 294 00:19:01,208 --> 00:19:01,628 digital. 295 00:19:01,628 --> 00:19:03,938 That's probably 30 years ago in our industry. 296 00:19:03,938 --> 00:19:07,088 Our industry is very antiquated to most industries. 297 00:19:07,088 --> 00:19:07,708 So, yeah. 298 00:19:07,708 --> 00:19:10,248 So, yeah, we had a lot of milestones. 299 00:19:10,328 --> 00:19:12,136 The biggest one, I suppose, was 300 00:19:12,136 --> 00:19:16,376 when the accountants used to come in and do an audit and his calculator, his hand 301 00:19:16,376 --> 00:19:18,376 calculator didn't have enough zeros. 302 00:19:18,376 --> 00:19:22,056 So that was a world moment for me. 303 00:19:22,836 --> 00:19:29,696 But yeah, yeah, we all worked and we all continue to work until the final days in 304 00:19:29,696 --> 00:19:30,830 those roles. 305 00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:31,430 Yeah. 306 00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:33,840 So, so tell me a bit about the sale then. 307 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,650 Were you, were you looking to sell the business or did someone approach you? 308 00:19:39,144 --> 00:19:43,444 No, if anything we were probably approached an awful lot to buy other 309 00:19:43,444 --> 00:19:49,484 businesses which turned into actually being quite funny because people would ask 310 00:19:49,484 --> 00:19:53,544 us to come down and look at their business and actually you could tell from a mile 311 00:19:53,544 --> 00:19:57,960 off that they had plucked numbers out of the sky and it was like here we go again. 312 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,019 You know, they think that they've got this goal, this goose that's laid the golden 313 00:20:02,019 --> 00:20:04,160 egg and so many businesses. 314 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,600 And to the end, it was getting a little bit like, you know, we've looked, you 315 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,100 know, we're not really, I don't want to look at anymore. 316 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:10,420 It's just not working. 317 00:20:10,420 --> 00:20:11,940 There's no need to look at anymore. 318 00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:13,260 We can do our own. 319 00:20:13,260 --> 00:20:20,800 We had at this stage got our flagship depot over near Hangar Lane in West London 320 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:21,880 in Wembley. 321 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,928 We had moved out of the lease hold that we're in into a bigger. 322 00:20:25,928 --> 00:20:27,908 freehold premises. 323 00:20:28,728 --> 00:20:31,998 So there was ill health in the family. 324 00:20:31,998 --> 00:20:35,538 So on the O'Donovan side, there's definitely heart issues. 325 00:20:35,538 --> 00:20:37,648 So my dad died of a heart attack. 326 00:20:37,648 --> 00:20:44,628 His mom died of a stroke and my granddad died after my dad of a heart attack. 327 00:20:44,628 --> 00:20:52,548 And all my siblings have had strokes and they all had them when they were 53. 328 00:20:52,584 --> 00:20:56,904 not sure why it was all 53 but they were all 53 in their head. 329 00:20:56,904 --> 00:21:03,484 So my brother had a my older brother had a minor TIA then my sister had two within 48 330 00:21:03,484 --> 00:21:09,244 hours and then my other brother had one and they were all 53 and so you can 331 00:21:09,244 --> 00:21:15,304 imagine the panic when I was approaching that age but I've got my mum's my heart is 332 00:21:15,304 --> 00:21:21,032 fine I've got no heart issues nor is my mum so I've got mum's genes and 333 00:21:21,032 --> 00:21:25,352 I think the brother was approaching a significant birthday and he said, you know 334 00:21:25,352 --> 00:21:28,052 what, Sodette, we need to take things a bit easy. 335 00:21:28,052 --> 00:21:30,732 We need to enjoy what we've built. 336 00:21:30,732 --> 00:21:33,712 And he said, let's sell it. 337 00:21:33,712 --> 00:21:37,652 So everybody agreed that, okay, we'll do this. 338 00:21:37,652 --> 00:21:44,492 And I went on that journey of, right, okay, we need to sell what do we need to 339 00:21:44,492 --> 00:21:45,212 do? 340 00:21:45,212 --> 00:21:50,792 And my compliance director used to work one day a week, two days some weeks. 341 00:21:50,792 --> 00:21:57,162 She was freelance and me and her had and still do today have a great relationship. 342 00:21:57,162 --> 00:21:59,372 We just get each other. 343 00:21:59,532 --> 00:22:05,152 So I involved my corporate solicitors who were in Northampton and we called it a 344 00:22:05,152 --> 00:22:11,692 beauty parade and we invited five different companies to pitch to us to go 345 00:22:11,692 --> 00:22:15,212 through the process of what selling looks like. 346 00:22:15,212 --> 00:22:19,312 So I'd had no experience in this area whatsoever. 347 00:22:19,976 --> 00:22:26,556 I had decided that we weren't going to sell all the freeholds. 348 00:22:26,556 --> 00:22:37,536 So I engaged with BDO, one of the top four, to structure finances and the 349 00:22:37,536 --> 00:22:38,796 company structure. 350 00:22:39,156 --> 00:22:43,896 So I invited them to pitch. 351 00:22:44,336 --> 00:22:49,300 The solicitor knew Grant Thornton, so they came to pitch. 352 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,610 And then three others, I can't really remember their names. 353 00:22:52,610 --> 00:22:58,190 I think they were sort of independenty sort of, and actually it was quite funny. 354 00:22:58,190 --> 00:23:03,540 One man contacted me like 24 hours before the beauty parade and I said, well, if you 355 00:23:03,540 --> 00:23:09,420 can be in Northampton at 10 a not tomorrow, then you can pitch. 356 00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:12,620 So he came and it was quite funny. 357 00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:16,360 We were sitting, so it was me, my solicitor and my compliance director. 358 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,600 and he pitched to us and he pitched that he was going to sell me to a private 359 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:20,400 equity. 360 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,660 And I'm not going to repeat the words my sister said, but he actually swore him 361 00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:31,240 basically that Jackie will not survive with a private equity. 362 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,980 So that definitely isn't going to work. 363 00:23:32,980 --> 00:23:34,850 So he was completely ruled out. 364 00:23:34,850 --> 00:23:41,380 And then we went through and one of the familiar names had a female in the group. 365 00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:44,224 So they came in groups of threes and I'm not sure if that's... 366 00:23:44,224 --> 00:23:46,724 or not, I don't know, but they came in groups of three. 367 00:23:46,724 --> 00:23:48,674 And it was two men and a woman. 368 00:23:48,674 --> 00:23:52,964 And the woman kept bringing it around to emotion and how I was going to cry. 369 00:23:52,964 --> 00:23:57,024 And then the man would say something and then she'd bring it back to emotion about 370 00:23:57,024 --> 00:24:00,584 how, you know, I would see this as losing my child. 371 00:24:00,764 --> 00:24:03,164 And it was very confusing. 372 00:24:03,164 --> 00:24:06,124 And when she walked out the door, I turned to Sarah and I said, Sarah, does that 373 00:24:06,124 --> 00:24:08,704 woman just keep bringing it back to me crying? 374 00:24:08,704 --> 00:24:10,884 And she said, yes, stupid woman. 375 00:24:10,884 --> 00:24:12,744 And it was like, why would... 376 00:24:12,744 --> 00:24:14,394 why would emotion get involved? 377 00:24:14,394 --> 00:24:16,254 You know, this is a business transaction. 378 00:24:16,254 --> 00:24:19,524 We're not talking about me personally, this is a business transaction. 379 00:24:19,524 --> 00:24:28,404 So we picked Grant Thornton and in particular, a gentleman called Mike. 380 00:24:28,404 --> 00:24:30,444 He was the one that was pitching. 381 00:24:30,744 --> 00:24:34,964 And Sarah said to me that I gave him a little slap on the wrist during the whole 382 00:24:34,964 --> 00:24:37,512 process and he took it really well. 383 00:24:37,512 --> 00:24:39,452 and he dealt with it and he got on. 384 00:24:39,452 --> 00:24:43,012 So we all voted that he was the one that was going to be able to work with me. 385 00:24:43,012 --> 00:24:49,892 I can't emphasize how important it is that that relationship works because if it 386 00:24:49,892 --> 00:24:53,022 doesn't work, it's never, the sale's never going to work. 387 00:24:53,022 --> 00:24:56,012 It's never going to come to fruition. 388 00:24:56,712 --> 00:25:01,362 And I suppose back then I didn't realize how important that was, that relationship. 389 00:25:01,362 --> 00:25:06,072 I knew I would have to have a relationship and I would have to have a level of 390 00:25:06,072 --> 00:25:07,068 respect. 391 00:25:07,144 --> 00:25:11,964 for the people that were dealing with the due diligence. 392 00:25:11,964 --> 00:25:18,584 But yeah, it wasn't until I got right into it and back out after it was sold that I 393 00:25:18,584 --> 00:25:20,844 realized how important that relationship was. 394 00:25:20,844 --> 00:25:27,644 And I think a lot of companies are driven by money, percentages, promises, false 395 00:25:27,644 --> 00:25:32,704 promises, and are naive to the process. 396 00:25:33,184 --> 00:25:36,878 No one could ever have prepared me for the process. 397 00:25:36,878 --> 00:25:41,078 So yeah, so how did you, how, so once you'd appointed Grant Thornton, how did 398 00:25:41,078 --> 00:25:45,352 you go about finding a buyer and how did that process go? 399 00:25:45,352 --> 00:25:48,092 They took that process on. 400 00:25:48,132 --> 00:25:55,572 So they had already dealt with a smaller waste company and had dealt with the 401 00:25:55,572 --> 00:25:59,432 largest waste company that was in Europe. 402 00:25:59,432 --> 00:26:02,472 So they had experience within the industry. 403 00:26:02,472 --> 00:26:09,132 So the first stage is to get an information memorandum ready so that any 404 00:26:09,132 --> 00:26:10,672 interested parties... 405 00:26:10,672 --> 00:26:15,400 So you sort of vaguely ask people, are they looking to acquire? 406 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:22,320 If so, we were dealing with construction and demolition waste. 407 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,760 So, you know, some waste companies don't like that. 408 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:32,060 Some waste companies just want household waste, like your black bag waste, not 409 00:26:32,060 --> 00:26:33,380 construction waste. 410 00:26:33,380 --> 00:26:41,320 So they weeded it down and the people we sold to were in it from day one. 411 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,200 We had an Irish company that was interested in it. 412 00:26:44,744 --> 00:26:47,924 who kept looking at my hair colour and thinking it was real. 413 00:26:47,924 --> 00:26:52,684 So I had to kick them out of the process because they kept insulting me with their 414 00:26:52,684 --> 00:26:53,274 offers. 415 00:26:53,274 --> 00:27:02,784 And then we had a company from up north look at us and they were more into scrap 416 00:27:02,784 --> 00:27:04,144 metal than waste. 417 00:27:04,144 --> 00:27:05,814 So they backed out. 418 00:27:05,814 --> 00:27:09,824 And we had another because of course this is all happening while Covid is going on. 419 00:27:09,824 --> 00:27:14,312 So I've been through the 80s construction recession. 420 00:27:14,312 --> 00:27:19,192 I've been through the Brexit downturn, I've been through the financial recession 421 00:27:19,192 --> 00:27:24,012 and now I'm hit with COVID right at the point of doing due diligence. 422 00:27:24,012 --> 00:27:28,272 And it's like, I don't think anything else can be thrown at me now, I've done it all. 423 00:27:28,532 --> 00:27:35,112 So I had to try and balance everybody's expectations of COVID as well as supply 424 00:27:35,112 --> 00:27:38,632 Grant Thornton with all the information that they required. 425 00:27:39,092 --> 00:27:43,496 Which, you know, I've got to be honest, no one could have prepared me for it. 426 00:27:43,496 --> 00:27:49,456 and no one could have prepared it or pointed anybody in the direction of it, 427 00:27:49,456 --> 00:27:50,696 only me. 428 00:27:50,936 --> 00:27:56,454 So, yeah, that was, yeah. 429 00:27:56,454 --> 00:28:00,854 you go about choosing the final buyer? 430 00:28:03,336 --> 00:28:06,696 How do I go about choosing the final buyer? 431 00:28:08,016 --> 00:28:13,796 Again, you have to have or feel a rapport. 432 00:28:14,836 --> 00:28:22,556 And me and the CFO had landed that rapport quite early. 433 00:28:22,556 --> 00:28:26,466 I didn't with the CEO, but with the CFO I did. 434 00:28:26,466 --> 00:28:29,736 I landed quite early with a rapport. 435 00:28:29,736 --> 00:28:33,576 I felt that he got me, that he knew what I was saying. 436 00:28:34,676 --> 00:28:47,156 And yeah, and that is what done it in the end was the relationship. 437 00:28:47,156 --> 00:28:54,256 And yeah, the relationship because it was key for me because although my brother had 438 00:28:54,256 --> 00:28:59,976 had enough, and I totally get that, and I knew my sister was... 439 00:28:59,976 --> 00:29:03,186 wanting to take things a little bit more easy, enjoy life a bit more. 440 00:29:03,186 --> 00:29:05,016 Because we worked our socks off. 441 00:29:05,016 --> 00:29:06,916 We were a six day a week job. 442 00:29:06,916 --> 00:29:09,956 It's not a five day a week job and it's not a nine to five. 443 00:29:11,496 --> 00:29:14,956 I think that I knew I wasn't going to stop. 444 00:29:14,956 --> 00:29:19,156 I knew that I had years left in me being the youngest. 445 00:29:19,496 --> 00:29:27,136 So it was, I probably would stay in the business for a period or part time or 446 00:29:27,136 --> 00:29:28,636 something like that. 447 00:29:28,696 --> 00:29:29,396 So. 448 00:29:30,408 --> 00:29:37,608 That was the end result was, yeah, I had to have, I had to be able to, one, make 449 00:29:37,608 --> 00:29:42,428 sure it was in capable hands because we had a reputation and two, that I was 450 00:29:42,428 --> 00:29:43,608 comfortable with them. 451 00:29:44,046 --> 00:29:49,446 And how did they go about valuing the business and how did you kind of put a 452 00:29:49,446 --> 00:29:51,266 deal structure together? 453 00:29:51,976 --> 00:29:59,596 So I don't know how they valued us because obviously they wouldn't leave the cat out 454 00:29:59,596 --> 00:30:00,796 of the bag there. 455 00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:07,716 I don't even know how much they paid to PwC took them through the process. 456 00:30:08,236 --> 00:30:12,556 And due to COVID, the team it started with wasn't the team it ended with. 457 00:30:12,556 --> 00:30:16,996 So they had a lot of change going on, which I think was very frustrating for 458 00:30:16,996 --> 00:30:18,456 them at the time. 459 00:30:19,516 --> 00:30:21,896 I've got to be honest, I sort of... 460 00:30:21,896 --> 00:30:26,496 I sort of sat back and thought, right, that's the number I want. 461 00:30:26,496 --> 00:30:28,876 And I got it. 462 00:30:28,876 --> 00:30:37,656 And it was like, you know, I've got to be honest, anything I've put myself out for 463 00:30:37,656 --> 00:30:39,776 in the universe, I've got. 464 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,260 nothing's, you know, nothing can't be done. 465 00:30:45,260 --> 00:30:52,200 I just am a doer, I'm a getter, I'm an achiever and I achieved the figure that 466 00:30:52,200 --> 00:31:01,320 was in my head and they structured the deal that a section of the money wouldn't 467 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,960 be paid until a 12 -month turnout. 468 00:31:05,020 --> 00:31:09,340 And the reason they'd done a 12 -month turnout was because of Covid, which I 469 00:31:09,340 --> 00:31:11,892 totally understand and 470 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,800 So because they wanted to do a 12 month earn out, there's no one else is going to 471 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:18,950 do this earn out, only me. 472 00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:20,600 So I'm staying where I am. 473 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,480 So I became, so we sold on the 31st of May, 22. 474 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,700 So probably being a bit naive here. 475 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:33,534 I was an employee for the first time on the 1st of June, 22. 476 00:31:36,368 --> 00:31:38,908 and then that was a Wednesday. 477 00:31:38,908 --> 00:31:41,218 The Thursday and Friday was the Queen's platinum. 478 00:31:41,218 --> 00:31:42,308 So it was bank holiday. 479 00:31:42,308 --> 00:31:43,888 Remember we had two bank holidays? 480 00:31:43,928 --> 00:31:45,588 It will go under the radar. 481 00:31:45,588 --> 00:31:47,108 No one will know. 482 00:31:47,308 --> 00:31:49,208 No one will see it. 483 00:31:49,208 --> 00:31:52,368 38 magazines and newspapers covered us. 484 00:31:52,368 --> 00:31:54,308 I got in the Irish Independent. 485 00:31:54,308 --> 00:31:56,308 It went as far as Italy. 486 00:31:56,308 --> 00:31:58,238 They got on, they're a Swedish company. 487 00:31:58,238 --> 00:32:01,988 They got on the Swedish nine o 'clock news, the equivalent to. 488 00:32:02,948 --> 00:32:05,374 And Monday, 489 00:32:06,088 --> 00:32:08,328 morning it started bubbling. 490 00:32:08,408 --> 00:32:13,348 So Monday afternoon, because it is a male dominated industry, my brothers were 491 00:32:13,348 --> 00:32:15,328 getting calls, I weren't getting calls. 492 00:32:16,048 --> 00:32:19,688 The rumour was starting to gain traction. 493 00:32:19,688 --> 00:32:24,228 So Tuesday I was out buying Bentleys, Wednesday I was going skin and hats. 494 00:32:24,228 --> 00:32:29,808 So it was really funny how people actually accepted the news. 495 00:32:30,028 --> 00:32:34,688 And I think it was quite confusing for a lot of people because nothing changed. 496 00:32:34,688 --> 00:32:36,040 For 12 months, 497 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,360 All of a sudden we got this news, all of a sudden everybody's talking about it and 498 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:47,080 then it's all died down and I'm going to events that I would normally go to and 499 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,120 conferences. 500 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,470 People are looking at me thinking, why is she still here? 501 00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:52,760 I thought she left, thought she sold, you know. 502 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,440 And I really do think people really couldn't comprehend why I was still 503 00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,140 around. 504 00:32:59,140 --> 00:33:01,340 So that was quite funny actually. 505 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,468 And then we did the earn out in May 23. 506 00:33:06,024 --> 00:33:08,424 No, May 20, when we're now 24. 507 00:33:08,424 --> 00:33:09,644 So May 23. 508 00:33:09,644 --> 00:33:13,264 Yeah, May 23, my 12 months was up. 509 00:33:13,264 --> 00:33:14,924 They weren't ready. 510 00:33:14,924 --> 00:33:17,424 They didn't have an MD in situ. 511 00:33:17,424 --> 00:33:20,764 So we just carried on and I carried on. 512 00:33:20,764 --> 00:33:24,964 I've got to be honest, I don't think they were ready at that stage for me to let go. 513 00:33:24,964 --> 00:33:33,128 And they brought an MD in and me and him worked together with a handover process. 514 00:33:33,128 --> 00:33:40,968 At this stage now, my siblings had gone, bar my sister and so she stayed, she 515 00:33:40,968 --> 00:33:46,108 actually stayed on for about a month or two after I had parted. 516 00:33:46,468 --> 00:33:52,868 So last year in the King's birthdays, his Honours List, his first birthday Honours 517 00:33:52,868 --> 00:33:59,148 List, being King, I was awarded an OBE for my services to the industry, recycling and 518 00:33:59,148 --> 00:33:59,928 safety. 519 00:33:59,928 --> 00:34:02,408 So that was like, wow, what? 520 00:34:02,408 --> 00:34:04,488 a high to go out on. 521 00:34:04,528 --> 00:34:10,248 And in December, the MD, the new MD said, I think the 31st of January is a good date 522 00:34:10,248 --> 00:34:11,428 for you to exit the business. 523 00:34:11,428 --> 00:34:12,768 I said, fine. 524 00:34:13,188 --> 00:34:18,808 And I had already planned an OBE party to celebrate my OBE. 525 00:34:18,808 --> 00:34:20,908 And I left the office on the Wednesday. 526 00:34:20,908 --> 00:34:23,348 I was at a charity lunch on the Thursday. 527 00:34:23,348 --> 00:34:25,908 I was at a construction lunch on the Friday. 528 00:34:25,908 --> 00:34:28,348 On the Saturday, I had my OBE party. 529 00:34:28,348 --> 00:34:31,144 On Monday, I had gone. 530 00:34:31,144 --> 00:34:35,704 back to Ireland with my mum and my son for a holiday because that's my happy place 531 00:34:35,704 --> 00:34:38,894 and it just all worked fine. 532 00:34:38,894 --> 00:34:40,464 It was seamless. 533 00:34:41,745 --> 00:34:42,666 Congratulations. 534 00:34:42,666 --> 00:34:44,386 I mean, what a story. 535 00:34:44,386 --> 00:34:46,446 It's really amazing. 536 00:34:46,806 --> 00:34:52,226 How did it feel that that transition to becoming an employee after having been 537 00:34:52,226 --> 00:34:55,204 master of your own destiny, mistress of your own destiny, sorry. 538 00:34:55,204 --> 00:34:56,484 yeah. 539 00:34:57,563 --> 00:34:59,944 It didn't feel any different. 540 00:34:59,944 --> 00:35:03,134 They actually left me alone. 541 00:35:03,134 --> 00:35:09,424 All I did was once a month, I've got the top line numbers, presented them to them, 542 00:35:09,424 --> 00:35:10,064 chatted them through. 543 00:35:10,064 --> 00:35:15,604 So we had a Zoom once a month, and they probably came over once every two months, 544 00:35:15,604 --> 00:35:17,684 just for 24 hours. 545 00:35:18,244 --> 00:35:21,992 And I think they knew because it was 546 00:35:21,992 --> 00:35:27,092 producing the numbers, it was still producing the profit, nothing was 547 00:35:27,092 --> 00:35:28,092 changing. 548 00:35:28,092 --> 00:35:29,072 They left. 549 00:35:29,072 --> 00:35:30,722 And I think they made the right decision. 550 00:35:30,722 --> 00:35:34,492 They left well alone, because it was just all working. 551 00:35:34,492 --> 00:35:39,412 So there was no reason for them to actually the wheel hadn't broken just 552 00:35:39,412 --> 00:35:41,152 because they owned the company. 553 00:35:41,152 --> 00:35:43,132 It was carrying on as normal. 554 00:35:43,132 --> 00:35:46,012 So they just left me at it. 555 00:35:46,012 --> 00:35:46,712 Yeah. 556 00:35:47,534 --> 00:35:52,774 Well, you know, most of the listeners to this podcast are in the creative agency 557 00:35:52,774 --> 00:35:53,714 space. 558 00:35:53,714 --> 00:35:58,354 So can you, and I know you're, that's something that you're going into at the 559 00:35:58,354 --> 00:36:03,074 moment, but can you give us an idea of margins in waste management? 560 00:36:03,614 --> 00:36:06,528 And, you know, right. 561 00:36:06,528 --> 00:36:10,688 would hover around the 4%. 562 00:36:10,688 --> 00:36:13,448 Yeah, really low, yeah. 563 00:36:13,448 --> 00:36:18,848 So you really do have to have a tight rein. 564 00:36:18,908 --> 00:36:21,788 And I think that's why we were successful. 565 00:36:21,788 --> 00:36:27,188 Every year, I was at the helm where we had profit every year. 566 00:36:27,188 --> 00:36:32,288 Even through COVID, even through the recessions, we always had a profit. 567 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,820 And I just threw the downturns, the construction one, financial one, I just 568 00:36:37,820 --> 00:36:38,910 battened down the hatches. 569 00:36:38,910 --> 00:36:42,420 And it literally was when your pen ran out of ink, you bring me the empty one, I'll 570 00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:43,320 give you a new one. 571 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,920 It literally was that battened down the hatches. 572 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,640 Simple things like, because we use to post everything out. 573 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,820 So instead of using first -class posts, we moved to second -class posts because we 574 00:36:55,820 --> 00:36:56,700 invoice daily. 575 00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:00,232 So it wasn't that I had to get there the next day, but so that. 576 00:37:00,232 --> 00:37:01,372 that saved money. 577 00:37:01,372 --> 00:37:04,492 So wherever I could save money, I would save it. 578 00:37:04,492 --> 00:37:11,092 And I think that the bigger the corporation gets, or the business gets, 579 00:37:11,092 --> 00:37:17,932 the bigger the bills get and the less the eye is on the target. 580 00:37:17,932 --> 00:37:23,732 And I found that in probably the transition period of the new MD coming in. 581 00:37:23,732 --> 00:37:30,024 So he was obviously set by HQ in Sweden to 582 00:37:30,024 --> 00:37:35,604 do the handovers, get to know people. 583 00:37:35,624 --> 00:37:39,164 Then very, very cleverly of them, they said to me who was my nemesis. 584 00:37:39,164 --> 00:37:42,404 So I told them who my nemesis was and they went out and bought them. 585 00:37:42,404 --> 00:37:47,324 So they bought two companies and the other company was twice our size, twice our 586 00:37:47,324 --> 00:37:48,184 turnover. 587 00:37:48,604 --> 00:37:54,724 But, and this comes into the creative space, but they only had a couple of lines 588 00:37:54,724 --> 00:37:57,864 in a trade magazine and three phone calls to the MD. 589 00:37:57,864 --> 00:38:01,883 it actually went completely under the radar because they weren't out there like 590 00:38:01,883 --> 00:38:07,864 I was out there on social media with corporate social responsibility piece, 591 00:38:07,864 --> 00:38:11,944 with the compliance, with the sustainability, with driver wellbeing, 592 00:38:11,944 --> 00:38:13,384 with mental health. 593 00:38:13,384 --> 00:38:15,114 They weren't doing any of that. 594 00:38:15,114 --> 00:38:17,124 So they went under the radar. 595 00:38:17,384 --> 00:38:25,644 But because I was so active in all these other spaces, that's why we got such a... 596 00:38:27,368 --> 00:38:30,922 fanfare when we sell, you know, everybody wanted to know. 597 00:38:30,922 --> 00:38:31,742 Yeah. 598 00:38:31,742 --> 00:38:32,841 How did it work? 599 00:38:32,841 --> 00:38:37,182 This is a sort of technical question really, but with your siblings not being 600 00:38:37,182 --> 00:38:42,462 shareholders, how did it work with kind of just divvying up the cash? 601 00:38:42,462 --> 00:38:44,568 Sorry for the crass question. 602 00:38:44,568 --> 00:38:54,148 so obviously I am responsible for the whole pot. 603 00:38:54,348 --> 00:38:59,448 So the first thing I did was put an insurance policy around that pot. 604 00:38:59,448 --> 00:39:04,208 So in the event that I throw my toes up in the first seven years, the bill will be 605 00:39:04,208 --> 00:39:05,488 fairly big. 606 00:39:05,488 --> 00:39:09,048 So I've covered them all for that. 607 00:39:12,712 --> 00:39:14,412 covered my son. 608 00:39:14,412 --> 00:39:17,132 So we actually skimmed over that bit. 609 00:39:17,132 --> 00:39:20,731 So I had one boy and I got post -natal depression. 610 00:39:20,731 --> 00:39:24,812 For three and a half years I had post -natal depression and still managed to get 611 00:39:24,812 --> 00:39:28,772 through the divorce and have post -natal depression. 612 00:39:28,772 --> 00:39:32,772 So my husband left me when my son was three months old. 613 00:39:32,772 --> 00:39:35,752 So yeah, all throwing that to the mix. 614 00:39:35,752 --> 00:39:37,692 So I nearly forgot about that bit. 615 00:39:38,112 --> 00:39:41,252 So I've gifted them 616 00:39:41,416 --> 00:39:47,816 and in gifting them I have secured them their future, their retirement and I've 617 00:39:47,816 --> 00:39:53,096 advised them what they should or could do and they're all doing different things. 618 00:39:53,096 --> 00:39:58,536 So my older brother, he's got two sons, his two sons are in business so he's 619 00:39:58,536 --> 00:39:59,596 supporting them. 620 00:39:59,596 --> 00:40:06,796 My sister's having a whale of a time, she decided to get married for a significant 621 00:40:06,796 --> 00:40:09,192 birthday instead of actually... 622 00:40:09,192 --> 00:40:12,132 having a birthday party, she decided to have a wedding. 623 00:40:12,132 --> 00:40:13,612 That was funny. 624 00:40:14,532 --> 00:40:18,562 So yeah, they now can do what they want to do. 625 00:40:18,562 --> 00:40:24,612 But I'm not gonna lie, I think we all suffer from not having that connection 626 00:40:24,612 --> 00:40:29,092 every day because we were 37 years having that connection. 627 00:40:29,092 --> 00:40:31,292 We would see each other every day. 628 00:40:31,292 --> 00:40:36,052 So I moved out to Hertfordshire 11 years ago and they all followed. 629 00:40:36,592 --> 00:40:39,222 So we're all within five minutes of each other. 630 00:40:39,630 --> 00:40:41,062 Whereabouts are you? 631 00:40:41,096 --> 00:40:45,696 I'm just at the notorious junction 25, them 25. 632 00:40:45,696 --> 00:40:49,756 So I just live about five minutes from that, which is 12 miles from Tottenham, 633 00:40:49,756 --> 00:40:53,316 the office, but 50 minutes in the car. 634 00:40:54,476 --> 00:40:56,256 That was the killer. 635 00:40:57,296 --> 00:40:57,836 Yeah. 636 00:40:57,836 --> 00:40:58,776 All right. 637 00:40:58,776 --> 00:40:59,856 Yeah. 638 00:40:59,856 --> 00:41:00,716 Yeah. 639 00:41:01,056 --> 00:41:02,646 But yeah, they followed me out. 640 00:41:02,646 --> 00:41:05,016 So yeah, so we socialized together. 641 00:41:05,016 --> 00:41:08,356 So we were all out last Saturday having 642 00:41:09,192 --> 00:41:13,572 dinner because we fancied a meal out and then someone, a family friend from Ireland 643 00:41:13,572 --> 00:41:15,152 was over on Sunday. 644 00:41:15,932 --> 00:41:18,852 So half of us went out for lunch on Sunday. 645 00:41:18,852 --> 00:41:21,772 So yeah, it's just, yeah, we just get on. 646 00:41:21,772 --> 00:41:22,412 Yeah. 647 00:41:22,412 --> 00:41:27,012 It's actually quite funny when we're all together, we all bounce off each other. 648 00:41:27,392 --> 00:41:28,982 So it was a shame. 649 00:41:28,982 --> 00:41:36,532 Somebody wanted to do a television program on us and it was a real shame that the 650 00:41:36,532 --> 00:41:38,812 production company he worked for. 651 00:41:39,176 --> 00:41:44,216 he had his second child and the child wasn't very well so it sort of went by the 652 00:41:44,216 --> 00:41:49,436 by and then somebody else picked it up but by that stage we had sold so it's yeah 653 00:41:49,436 --> 00:41:52,056 watch this video you never know we might do another one. 654 00:41:52,686 --> 00:41:56,106 And what are you doing now? 655 00:41:56,872 --> 00:41:59,012 What am I doing now? 656 00:41:59,012 --> 00:42:06,832 I've got to say chapter two is very exciting and very different. 657 00:42:07,972 --> 00:42:14,652 The one common thread through chapter two is everybody in their industry talks to 658 00:42:14,652 --> 00:42:19,072 everybody as if they are in that industry when they're not. 659 00:42:19,072 --> 00:42:24,892 Everybody talks their own lingo and everybody uses their own industry acronyms 660 00:42:24,892 --> 00:42:26,138 and 661 00:42:26,152 --> 00:42:30,792 I just think, and I'm the one that sits there and goes, sorry, I'm not in your 662 00:42:30,792 --> 00:42:31,152 industry. 663 00:42:31,152 --> 00:42:32,232 What's that acronym? 664 00:42:32,232 --> 00:42:36,222 But so many people that sit there, they're going, that's what that is. 665 00:42:36,222 --> 00:42:40,532 I got a LinkedIn message yesterday and love a short message. 666 00:42:40,532 --> 00:42:43,332 If you can say it in the sentence, don't use paragraph. 667 00:42:43,572 --> 00:42:47,452 I'm a sentence girl, not a paragraph girl. 668 00:42:47,752 --> 00:42:52,732 And he sent me, and he's actually in the waste industry and he used two acronyms, 669 00:42:52,732 --> 00:42:55,656 two acronyms I didn't even know what they were. 670 00:42:55,656 --> 00:43:01,676 So I went back to him and I said, yeah, great to connect, but what does that mean 671 00:43:01,676 --> 00:43:02,586 and what does that mean? 672 00:43:02,586 --> 00:43:09,636 And he came back saying, maybe my message was too short and I should have kept the 673 00:43:09,636 --> 00:43:10,836 acronyms out. 674 00:43:10,836 --> 00:43:17,196 So I then went back to him and said, well, one of his acronyms didn't even match the 675 00:43:17,196 --> 00:43:18,786 initials of what he was saying. 676 00:43:18,786 --> 00:43:21,476 So really not sure why he was using it. 677 00:43:21,476 --> 00:43:25,736 It was RMX he was using when he should have been using RMS. 678 00:43:26,536 --> 00:43:31,746 Ready Mix Sites was what it was short for, but it was RMX. 679 00:43:31,746 --> 00:43:34,736 And I thought, well, I'm never going to get that out of that. 680 00:43:34,736 --> 00:43:37,256 So that is really strange. 681 00:43:37,756 --> 00:43:47,296 I started a PR marketing company, and I can't believe how many people have said to 682 00:43:47,296 --> 00:43:49,556 me, what's that? 683 00:43:51,176 --> 00:43:55,636 And I'm like, surely it's written on it's like PR marketing. 684 00:43:55,936 --> 00:43:58,976 So I have a flair for it. 685 00:43:58,976 --> 00:44:01,756 So I did all the ways PR marketing. 686 00:44:01,816 --> 00:44:05,856 I had a marketing director and I would give her the skeleton. 687 00:44:05,856 --> 00:44:09,256 She'd put the meat on it and she'd fire it back and I'd trim the fat. 688 00:44:09,256 --> 00:44:16,316 And between us, we would agree on a document, on a thought leadership piece. 689 00:44:17,256 --> 00:44:18,888 And I can... 690 00:44:18,888 --> 00:44:25,548 I just have the ability to be able to understand different industries and ask 691 00:44:25,548 --> 00:44:29,508 pertinent questions that I suppose other people just don't ask. 692 00:44:29,508 --> 00:44:34,648 And I think, I really don't, it's not personal, it's not, it's all about 693 00:44:34,648 --> 00:44:35,297 business for me. 694 00:44:35,297 --> 00:44:36,688 It's not nothing personal. 695 00:44:36,688 --> 00:44:43,288 And I think, I think businesses, some people in businesses feel it's personal 696 00:44:43,288 --> 00:44:45,750 when it's just business. 697 00:44:46,408 --> 00:44:54,537 So I've got PR marketing agency, ODPR, and that's really gaining traction now. 698 00:44:54,537 --> 00:44:58,728 I'm really pleased to say it's gaining traction because people are now 699 00:44:58,728 --> 00:45:04,528 understanding what it is and they want me to do theirs because I was so good at 700 00:45:04,528 --> 00:45:08,408 doing O'Donovan Waste, which is fantastic. 701 00:45:08,408 --> 00:45:11,468 And people are saying, yeah, she's doing this now. 702 00:45:11,788 --> 00:45:13,668 Let me introduce you to her. 703 00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:17,840 then it gives me the opportunity to explain to them that this is what I do and 704 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,580 this is how it works. 705 00:45:20,340 --> 00:45:27,660 If anything, my strap line is thinking outside the box because I do, I think 706 00:45:27,660 --> 00:45:31,410 totally different to how people think. 707 00:45:31,410 --> 00:45:35,580 And in my industry, because it was male dominated and being the only female MD in 708 00:45:35,580 --> 00:45:40,296 London, I thought completely different to how the other MDs thought. 709 00:45:40,296 --> 00:45:43,726 And I think we only tracked down two other female MDs. 710 00:45:43,726 --> 00:45:45,856 So I was one of three in the UK. 711 00:45:45,876 --> 00:45:49,106 So I really was different. 712 00:45:49,106 --> 00:45:52,676 So then I just acted different if we were in a meeting. 713 00:45:52,676 --> 00:45:58,336 And up until recently, we've got this standard that TFL are bringing out called 714 00:45:58,336 --> 00:45:59,716 the direct vision standard. 715 00:45:59,716 --> 00:46:06,336 And up until recently, I was asked probably late last year to sit on a round 716 00:46:06,336 --> 00:46:07,306 table about this. 717 00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:09,352 And I was the only female operator. 718 00:46:09,883 --> 00:46:16,924 and TFL were talking and they weren't actually clarifying what they were saying. 719 00:46:16,924 --> 00:46:21,024 They were making statements but not actually giving us the evidence to back 720 00:46:21,024 --> 00:46:21,864 the statements. 721 00:46:21,864 --> 00:46:26,204 So I then challenged that and then when I challenged it some of the men started to 722 00:46:26,204 --> 00:46:32,764 challenge it and then people started to actually talk but it took me to challenge 723 00:46:32,764 --> 00:46:37,736 it for the other people to actually think well actually I can ask a question. 724 00:46:37,736 --> 00:46:40,916 Because I don't think there is any stupid question. 725 00:46:41,016 --> 00:46:43,296 If someone doesn't know something, they don't know it. 726 00:46:43,416 --> 00:46:45,202 We can't know everything. 727 00:46:46,446 --> 00:46:47,426 Yeah. 728 00:46:47,426 --> 00:46:48,616 Well, that's fantastic. 729 00:46:48,616 --> 00:46:51,096 That seems like a good place to wrap it up. 730 00:46:51,096 --> 00:46:54,646 And thank you very much for sharing your story. 731 00:46:55,446 --> 00:46:56,216 And yeah, thanks. 732 00:46:56,216 --> 00:46:57,406 Thanks for coming on. 733 00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:58,840 You're welcome. 734 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,908 I've also done a couple of investments in. 735 00:47:01,908 --> 00:47:03,912 yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about those. 736 00:47:03,912 --> 00:47:05,932 So I've done a couple of investments. 737 00:47:05,932 --> 00:47:13,292 So three friends in Ireland have brought out a supplement and they've put their 738 00:47:13,292 --> 00:47:18,972 heart and soul into this supplement called, it's called Sisterly the Elevator. 739 00:47:19,152 --> 00:47:26,772 And they gave the chemist or scientist three and a half years and said, go away, 740 00:47:26,772 --> 00:47:31,192 bring us back something that we would want to take, that we would want our sisters or 741 00:47:31,192 --> 00:47:33,352 our mothers or our friends to take. 742 00:47:33,352 --> 00:47:39,032 and it's a fantastic product and they're gaining massive traction through the fact 743 00:47:39,032 --> 00:47:43,412 that that product is, does what it says on the tin. 744 00:47:43,412 --> 00:47:45,652 So I invested in that. 745 00:47:45,652 --> 00:47:49,892 I'm looking at a bedding company at the moment. 746 00:47:49,892 --> 00:47:53,552 I'm also looking at a couple of tech things. 747 00:47:53,552 --> 00:47:56,812 So, which can't really talk about at the moment and an animal one. 748 00:47:56,812 --> 00:47:58,652 So I've got lots in the pipeline. 749 00:47:58,652 --> 00:48:01,132 I haven't got enough hours in the day. 750 00:48:01,192 --> 00:48:02,062 It's just mad. 751 00:48:02,062 --> 00:48:06,312 I would never ever have thought in a million years that chapter two would have 752 00:48:06,312 --> 00:48:07,812 been busier than chapter one. 753 00:48:07,812 --> 00:48:10,932 You mean I am back to back on the calendar. 754 00:48:10,932 --> 00:48:13,872 I'm back to back with meetings. 755 00:48:14,432 --> 00:48:15,662 And yeah, it's all great. 756 00:48:15,662 --> 00:48:17,132 I love it. 757 00:48:17,171 --> 00:48:23,312 I've got a new team around me, probably of about six people and that's slowly 758 00:48:23,312 --> 00:48:24,392 growing. 759 00:48:24,812 --> 00:48:29,832 And yeah, we still keep in contact with the old staff. 760 00:48:30,344 --> 00:48:33,864 you know, some of them have left, some of them didn't like the new regime. 761 00:48:34,144 --> 00:48:39,904 And yeah, it's, it's, I'm now being approached by people that want to bring 762 00:48:39,904 --> 00:48:41,684 something to the market. 763 00:48:42,064 --> 00:48:46,324 And I've got to be honest, 50 % of them are trying to fix a wheel that isn't 764 00:48:46,324 --> 00:48:47,064 broken. 765 00:48:47,064 --> 00:48:54,284 It's very hard to go through an hours of a zoom call with someone that's put their 766 00:48:54,284 --> 00:48:59,464 whole life and house money savings on this product that 767 00:48:59,464 --> 00:49:00,984 isn't going to fly. 768 00:49:01,724 --> 00:49:06,510 So yeah that's a bit challenging but yeah I love a challenge. 769 00:49:06,510 --> 00:49:09,830 Yeah, great, great. 770 00:49:10,270 --> 00:49:14,015 Well, thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to talk. 771 00:49:14,015 --> 00:49:18,896 I think it's really important that to be it you've got to see it, you've got to see 772 00:49:18,896 --> 00:49:23,716 it to be it and I think if we don't do things, podcasts like this, the next 773 00:49:23,716 --> 00:49:27,856 generations don't see it and for me the females don't see it. 774 00:49:27,856 --> 00:49:34,902 So yeah it's really important for me that we share our experiences in 775 00:49:34,902 --> 00:49:37,602 honestly, I don't have that many women on the podcast. 776 00:49:37,602 --> 00:49:43,282 And, you know, I'm always looking for female stories, but there's, it's just 777 00:49:43,282 --> 00:49:45,982 sort of naturally ends up being a lot of men. 778 00:49:45,982 --> 00:49:47,972 So it's always good to have that other. 779 00:49:47,972 --> 00:49:48,112 that. 780 00:49:48,112 --> 00:49:49,112 Yeah, that's that. 781 00:49:49,112 --> 00:49:54,532 And I think it's more out of fear than anything else. 782 00:49:54,532 --> 00:50:00,132 So I get an awful lot of women that are like way, like way up the stratosphere 783 00:50:00,132 --> 00:50:03,992 than I am asking me, is that OK? 784 00:50:04,732 --> 00:50:06,852 And I'm like, why are you asking me? 785 00:50:06,852 --> 00:50:11,512 Like, you're the CEO of this public company and you know, it's yeah, that's 786 00:50:11,512 --> 00:50:13,000 quite strange. 787 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,940 And at International Women's Day, not this year, last year, a woman asked me four 788 00:50:17,940 --> 00:50:20,960 times, I was being interviewed for International Women's Day, and a woman 789 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,540 asked me four times, do I suffer from imposter syndrome? 790 00:50:24,540 --> 00:50:27,230 And it was like, no, do you think so? 791 00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:29,249 No, no, that's definitely not one of my traits. 792 00:50:29,249 --> 00:50:33,080 And it's like, I'm now talking for an hour and a half, and she's still asking me, am 793 00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:34,760 I suffering from imposter syndrome? 794 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,800 And it's like, no, but you must be. 795 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:40,680 So let's find out why you think that. 796 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,984 So yeah, I really do think that. 797 00:50:42,984 --> 00:50:48,018 women really do need to get out there and be a bit more ballsy. 798 00:50:49,704 --> 00:50:51,104 We can do it. 799 00:50:51,470 --> 00:50:53,610 Yes, I like it. 800 00:50:53,610 --> 00:50:54,550 Great stuff. 801 00:50:54,550 --> 00:50:57,790 OK, I will just press stop there.