WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.818 --> 00:00:26.538 Anke: Hello and welcome Drayton. 00:00:26.618 --> 00:00:28.028 I'm excited to have you here. 00:00:28.858 --> 00:00:29.128 Drayton: Thanks. 00:00:29.128 --> 00:00:30.028 I'm excited to be here. 00:00:30.028 --> 00:00:30.718 I appreciate it. 00:00:31.968 --> 00:00:36.768 Anke: Well before we Uh get started let people know where in this 00:00:36.768 --> 00:00:40.377 lovely world are you based and what's your business for dogs? 00:00:40.858 --> 00:00:41.378 Drayton: You got it. 00:00:41.398 --> 00:00:45.398 I'm in Red Bank, New Jersey, which is about 50 miles from New York 00:00:45.398 --> 00:00:47.328 City and 50 miles from Philadelphia. 00:00:47.328 --> 00:00:49.548 So I'm kind of like right in the middle of New Jersey. 00:00:49.958 --> 00:00:54.278 And I've been training and working with dogs for about 24 years. 00:00:54.288 --> 00:00:58.348 Started in 2000 as a dog walker in New York City, went to the Academy 00:00:58.348 --> 00:01:02.738 for Dog Trainers, got certified, uh, took the fabulous course by Dr. 00:01:02.748 --> 00:01:04.788 Susan Friedman, Living and Learning with Animals. 00:01:05.758 --> 00:01:10.448 Uh, I work with roughly 400 dogs a year, uh, typically I have anywhere from three 00:01:10.448 --> 00:01:14.838 to four puppy classes a week, and you know, I do private sessions, um, anything 00:01:14.838 --> 00:01:18.198 people need help with, uh, it doesn't really matter as long as they want to do 00:01:18.198 --> 00:01:20.598 it in a positive, force free, humane way. 00:01:20.598 --> 00:01:21.618 That's how I train. 00:01:21.978 --> 00:01:23.988 Then, uh, I'd be happy to work with them. 00:01:24.388 --> 00:01:27.598 Uh, I don't have any dogs of my own at the moment, but I've had three dogs, 00:01:27.648 --> 00:01:29.388 uh, in my lifetime, all Pit Bulls. 00:01:29.678 --> 00:01:34.548 And uh, back in 2009, I was the first person to put out a documentary 00:01:34.548 --> 00:01:38.068 about Pit Bulls called The Pit Bull Hoax, which you can find on YouTube. 00:01:38.428 --> 00:01:41.798 And I've also been in the movie Beyond the Myth, which was another 00:01:41.798 --> 00:01:46.298 great movie about read specific legislation and the effects of that. 00:01:47.378 --> 00:01:50.078 And uh, I have a very active YouTube channel where I put out 00:01:50.078 --> 00:01:53.018 videos on a regular basis about positive reward based training. 00:01:53.813 --> 00:01:54.373 Anke: I love that. 00:01:54.413 --> 00:01:54.993 I love that. 00:01:55.163 --> 00:01:57.193 So now you've got me with the pities, right? 00:01:58.013 --> 00:02:01.193 So it's such a discussion all the time, you know? 00:02:01.193 --> 00:02:06.023 So what pulled you towards that breed? 00:02:07.153 --> 00:02:09.953 Drayton: Well, when I first got a dog, um, I didn't know anything. 00:02:10.053 --> 00:02:12.653 This was back in, uh, I think it was like, what, 98? 00:02:14.048 --> 00:02:17.148 You know, I just started to notice there were people who I had known 00:02:17.148 --> 00:02:20.158 in my life who were afraid of my dog and I couldn't understand why. 00:02:20.478 --> 00:02:24.878 So, as time went on, I just found more and more information about, you know, 00:02:24.878 --> 00:02:29.628 the culture of hating these dogs and banning them and I said, Wow, there's 00:02:29.708 --> 00:02:33.308 really something has to be done and the best way to do that is to have 00:02:33.308 --> 00:02:36.133 some sort of media presentation. 00:02:36.393 --> 00:02:39.493 At the time, my ex wife was a professional trainer and she had 00:02:39.503 --> 00:02:43.083 access to some pretty legendary people in the training and behavior world. 00:02:43.323 --> 00:02:47.403 So I contacted them and said, Hey, I'm making this documentary and 00:02:47.403 --> 00:02:50.513 I'd like to know if you'd like to speak about pitfalls and behavior. 00:02:50.703 --> 00:02:54.603 So there had been, you know, a decent amount of people advocating 00:02:54.773 --> 00:02:55.913 for pitfalls at that point. 00:02:55.913 --> 00:02:57.253 This is around 2012. 00:02:57.273 --> 00:03:03.633 but nobody had really come into the advocacy for Pitbull's with 00:03:03.683 --> 00:03:06.253 behavior and discussing behavior. 00:03:06.563 --> 00:03:07.903 I then discovered Dr. 00:03:08.073 --> 00:03:09.003 I'm not doctor I'm sorry. 00:03:09.143 --> 00:03:10.823 I discovered Karen Delese. 00:03:11.523 --> 00:03:14.763 Who's an author, she wrote a fabulous book called The Pit Bull Placebo, 00:03:15.093 --> 00:03:20.663 and she basically studied dog bite incidences for about 150 years, and 00:03:20.663 --> 00:03:24.623 found that there was a criteria that always repeats in part or total. 00:03:24.793 --> 00:03:28.533 And that criteria is dogs kept for guarding or protecting, they're not family 00:03:28.533 --> 00:03:32.953 members, multiple dogs, dogs not spayed or neutered, children left alone with dogs, 00:03:32.953 --> 00:03:37.503 domestic violence, dogs running free, and dogs chained or housed all the time. 00:03:38.783 --> 00:03:42.193 If you look at any of the fatal or lethal dog bite incidents, no matter 00:03:42.193 --> 00:03:46.593 where they happen in the world, some or all of that criteria is present. 00:03:46.783 --> 00:03:49.873 There's never been a dog who's been well trained, well cared for in a loving 00:03:49.873 --> 00:03:54.363 family that's killed anybody, or, you know, hurt someone from biting them. 00:03:54.713 --> 00:03:58.003 And, you know, at the end of the day, that's kind of what sparked 00:03:58.808 --> 00:04:02.898 my interest in making the Pitbull hoax, and just went on from there. 00:04:02.908 --> 00:04:06.708 You know, I inspired another gentleman to make a film called Guilty Till 00:04:06.708 --> 00:04:11.588 Proven Innocent, and I was in the film Beyond the Myth, which ended up being 00:04:11.608 --> 00:04:13.768 coming on Netflix back in the day. 00:04:13.768 --> 00:04:17.738 So, you know, there's been a lot of movement towards helping Pitbulls and 00:04:17.738 --> 00:04:22.408 Pitbull type dogs, but unfortunately, uh, that stigma and that hate and 00:04:22.408 --> 00:04:24.248 that prejudice seems to persist. 00:04:25.148 --> 00:04:29.338 Anke: It certainly does, you know, so I'm wondering do you have, do you have some 00:04:29.428 --> 00:04:33.888 theory around that or like, you know, you keep hearing this Um, you know, but 00:04:33.888 --> 00:04:38.618 the doors really lock and whatever, you know, so it's like are these people You 00:04:38.618 --> 00:04:41.838 know attack their owner in the bedroom or whatever, you know, like what? 00:04:42.078 --> 00:04:44.448 There's these stories and you never know whether they're true anyway, 00:04:44.448 --> 00:04:46.368 but do you have a theory of why that? 00:04:46.888 --> 00:04:47.714 There's a couple 00:04:47.714 --> 00:04:50.478 Drayton: of Yeah, there's a couple of things we can definitely, 00:04:50.608 --> 00:04:52.138 uh, look at as truisms. 00:04:52.178 --> 00:04:54.408 Number one, jaws don't lock. 00:04:54.428 --> 00:04:58.803 That's been proven, you know, Through anatomical research by veterinarians 00:04:58.803 --> 00:05:03.613 that just what happens is is, you know, if it is an actual pit bull dog They 00:05:03.613 --> 00:05:07.613 do have very strong jaws and they you know, they were bred to grab cattle 00:05:07.613 --> 00:05:12.393 and hold them right their catch dogs Initially pit bulls were created to do 00:05:12.393 --> 00:05:16.753 farm work and hunting the fighting came later And my theory on that is people 00:05:16.753 --> 00:05:19.463 were bored back in the 1600s Right? 00:05:19.693 --> 00:05:22.723 My joke is if we had video games back then, maybe dog fighting 00:05:22.723 --> 00:05:23.593 would have never happened. 00:05:23.933 --> 00:05:27.133 But, you know, people are cruel and they don't really think about 00:05:27.133 --> 00:05:28.623 things in a humane way all the time. 00:05:28.623 --> 00:05:30.363 They just have their own agenda. 00:05:30.733 --> 00:05:34.433 As far as why the hate and the prejudice continues, there's 00:05:34.433 --> 00:05:37.243 always going to be people who hate dogs and don't understand them. 00:05:37.603 --> 00:05:40.673 And a lot of it is just knee jerk panic policy. 00:05:40.913 --> 00:05:45.533 Um, when you look at breed specific legislation in America, every place 00:05:45.533 --> 00:05:51.458 that it's been implemented, dog bites haven't decreased, and obviously if 00:05:51.458 --> 00:05:56.418 you have education over legislation you can have your community much safer. 00:05:56.608 --> 00:06:00.128 The problem is they would rather just ban dogs, kill a bunch of innocent 00:06:00.138 --> 00:06:02.918 dogs who've never done anything wrong, they just look a certain way. 00:06:03.248 --> 00:06:07.928 So my, my attitude towards it is the more you educate, Then you don't have to 00:06:07.928 --> 00:06:12.728 legislate, and breed specific legislation doesn't solve anything anyway, right? 00:06:12.888 --> 00:06:15.848 It's the over inclusive, under inclusive theory, right? 00:06:15.848 --> 00:06:20.088 You're gonna include a lot of dogs in that band who will never bite anyone, 00:06:20.778 --> 00:06:23.588 and you're gonna get a lot of dogs who don't look like pit bulls, who may 00:06:23.588 --> 00:06:26.678 be in danger of biting someone, and they're not gonna be included because 00:06:27.183 --> 00:06:28.823 They're a lab, or they're a shepherd. 00:06:29.103 --> 00:06:31.493 So, you know, it always boils down to this. 00:06:31.533 --> 00:06:34.493 Behavior is in the environment, and humans are the variable. 00:06:34.863 --> 00:06:38.753 So, if the human is doing things correctly, and they're responsible, 00:06:38.973 --> 00:06:41.933 there's a really great chance that the dog's never going to 00:06:41.943 --> 00:06:43.443 get into any serious trouble. 00:06:43.703 --> 00:06:47.248 And, you know, you mentioned, you know, You know, a dog guardian being bitten 00:06:47.248 --> 00:06:49.128 by their own dog, you know, or mauled. 00:06:49.358 --> 00:06:52.698 Well, all I can say is number one, what have you been doing with that dog? 00:06:52.838 --> 00:06:54.488 Like, how are you treating this dog? 00:06:54.758 --> 00:06:58.228 And then number two, are you working with anybody that considers 00:06:58.228 --> 00:07:01.028 themselves a professional and what are they telling you to do? 00:07:01.558 --> 00:07:05.188 So, sure, you know, dogs can bite because they have teeth, right? 00:07:05.188 --> 00:07:05.998 That's why they bite. 00:07:06.258 --> 00:07:09.148 And fear is rooted, and aggression is rooted in fear. 00:07:09.168 --> 00:07:11.478 Fear is the underlying cause for aggression. 00:07:11.798 --> 00:07:16.748 So, you know, uh, when you look at it logically, and you remove the 00:07:16.748 --> 00:07:21.118 emotion, right, and you have some empathy, dogs have the cognition 00:07:21.118 --> 00:07:22.498 of three year old kids for life. 00:07:22.763 --> 00:07:24.083 By the time they're about two. 00:07:24.283 --> 00:07:26.163 So they're not up to no good. 00:07:26.173 --> 00:07:28.093 They're doing things that dogs do. 00:07:28.443 --> 00:07:28.953 Right? 00:07:29.153 --> 00:07:32.923 And if a dog is in a really bad situation, they may end 00:07:32.923 --> 00:07:34.403 up doing something really bad. 00:07:35.213 --> 00:07:39.613 Anke: Yeah, I mean, the breed specific legislation just reminds 00:07:39.613 --> 00:07:42.833 me that just recently there was something going on in the UK as well. 00:07:42.843 --> 00:07:43.542 So it's not even just dogs. 00:07:44.053 --> 00:07:46.223 So it happens, it happens everywhere. 00:07:46.223 --> 00:07:49.893 And there's, you know, people fighting for their dogs, right? 00:07:49.893 --> 00:07:54.843 Because there's a lot of, you have, this dog is the biggest fluffball, you know, 00:07:54.863 --> 00:07:59.473 cuddle bug, but just, he looks like this, so he's going to be, so it's, it's. 00:08:00.523 --> 00:08:00.963 Well, the other 00:08:00.963 --> 00:08:04.063 Drayton: thing is, the other thing, and I'm going to be making some media 00:08:04.063 --> 00:08:07.973 about this because, you know, October is Pitbull Awareness Month here in America. 00:08:08.063 --> 00:08:12.283 I'm sure it extends around the world, but, you know, one of the things that 00:08:12.383 --> 00:08:15.303 I'm going to start reminding people is that the media likes to create 00:08:15.303 --> 00:08:18.553 monsters because when the media creates a monster, they make money. 00:08:18.883 --> 00:08:23.483 And, you know, you should never trust the media about anything they say because they 00:08:23.483 --> 00:08:25.657 lie, because they don't have credibility. 00:08:25.988 --> 00:08:27.598 Any agenda for the truth. 00:08:27.608 --> 00:08:31.588 They have an agenda to make money and to create division because when they 00:08:31.688 --> 00:08:33.938 create division, they make money, right? 00:08:33.988 --> 00:08:35.388 And that's how the media works. 00:08:35.418 --> 00:08:40.488 Um, you know, in America, we have a publication called Sports Illustrated 00:08:40.488 --> 00:08:44.568 and back in the eighties, they put a pit bull on the cover of an issue and 00:08:44.568 --> 00:08:50.883 said, beware of this dog, but then fast forward to The Michael Vick incident. 00:08:51.043 --> 00:08:55.693 Now they have the dog on the cover and they're saying these are wonderful dogs. 00:08:55.693 --> 00:08:56.633 It's about the people. 00:08:56.783 --> 00:09:00.323 So it took, you know, almost 20 years for them to come around. 00:09:00.493 --> 00:09:02.793 But the reason why they came around isn't because all of a 00:09:02.793 --> 00:09:04.283 sudden the media loves dogs. 00:09:04.533 --> 00:09:07.463 No, they came around because the zeitgeist, right? 00:09:07.483 --> 00:09:11.148 The whole population was like, Hey, Don't blame these dogs 00:09:11.148 --> 00:09:12.258 at the Michael Vick kennel. 00:09:12.258 --> 00:09:16.508 It's the people, you know, that only lasted about five years and 00:09:16.508 --> 00:09:19.308 then it all went back to, you know, Oh, they're dangerous dogs. 00:09:19.528 --> 00:09:23.938 So that's the message to the general public is do not trust the media 00:09:24.048 --> 00:09:27.118 about whatever they say, whether they say it about dogs, they say 00:09:27.118 --> 00:09:30.428 it about people, whatever they're telling you, there's an agenda. 00:09:30.478 --> 00:09:30.708 Anke: Yep. 00:09:30.938 --> 00:09:31.928 Sound advice that one. 00:09:32.678 --> 00:09:38.698 So now I'm curious, actually, the thing that pops to mind is that, um, Since 00:09:38.698 --> 00:09:43.978 I've started this show and this whole project and really looking into, you 00:09:43.978 --> 00:09:49.448 know, like groups and dog professionals, there's a shit fight going on, right? 00:09:49.448 --> 00:09:55.588 So between the, you know, balanced and tough dogs need a tough hand and people 00:09:55.588 --> 00:09:57.818 who say, well, no, that's crap, right? 00:09:57.818 --> 00:10:03.608 So do you find you get a lot of pushback, especially, you know, coming at you with 00:10:03.628 --> 00:10:05.288 like, oh, well, pitbulls, you can't. 00:10:05.678 --> 00:10:08.468 You know, you can't train pitbulls with teeth. 00:10:08.478 --> 00:10:09.098 Well, here's 00:10:09.238 --> 00:10:09.628 Drayton: the thing. 00:10:10.188 --> 00:10:17.393 I was also coming into dog culture with Advocating for pitbulls and advocating 00:10:17.393 --> 00:10:20.593 for positive reward based training without the use of fear and pain. 00:10:20.763 --> 00:10:22.373 I was doing it concurrently. 00:10:22.713 --> 00:10:26.853 So I was one of the first people who was really screaming from my lungs 00:10:26.853 --> 00:10:31.243 saying, hey, stop hurting dogs, stop causing them fear and pain, stop 00:10:31.243 --> 00:10:32.733 shocking them, stop choking them. 00:10:33.458 --> 00:10:34.298 Look at history. 00:10:34.658 --> 00:10:38.347 Humans and dogs have been working alongside each other since 20, 00:10:38.348 --> 00:10:40.738 000 years before agriculture. 00:10:40.938 --> 00:10:43.908 So before humans figured out, hey, let's put seeds in the ground, 00:10:44.078 --> 00:10:45.928 we had dogs helping us, right? 00:10:45.968 --> 00:10:47.188 We had dogs working with us. 00:10:47.368 --> 00:10:50.968 Before molded metal and before electricity, dogs were 00:10:51.018 --> 00:10:53.618 a partner in our evolution. 00:10:53.858 --> 00:10:55.098 So why is it now? 00:10:56.173 --> 00:10:58.473 We need to choke them and shock them and blame them. 00:10:58.723 --> 00:10:59.773 Dogs are innocent. 00:10:59.993 --> 00:11:03.763 I don't want to get into the weeds, but there is an area of mammal brains called 00:11:03.763 --> 00:11:06.273 the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex. 00:11:06.593 --> 00:11:10.823 And this job that the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex does is 00:11:10.913 --> 00:11:13.013 it does the right wrong assessment. 00:11:13.503 --> 00:11:15.453 Dogs don't really know right from wrong. 00:11:15.463 --> 00:11:18.523 They know what's reinforcing, what's not reinforcing. 00:11:18.743 --> 00:11:19.223 Okay. 00:11:19.223 --> 00:11:22.623 Again, as I said earlier, they have the cognition of three year old kids for life. 00:11:22.993 --> 00:11:27.773 So they're not doing things with a moral imperative, and if anybody believes that, 00:11:28.123 --> 00:11:30.763 then they are believing a falsehood, okay? 00:11:31.313 --> 00:11:32.333 Do I get pushback? 00:11:32.593 --> 00:11:37.603 Not really, I mean, I have, but, you know, most people don't really mess with me. 00:11:37.603 --> 00:11:40.683 Maybe it's just my vibe, they're like, and I don't really care. 00:11:40.913 --> 00:11:44.263 And, you know, I will tell people, well, you know, at the end of the day, you 00:11:44.263 --> 00:11:47.763 know, thank you for letting me know that you want to cause dogs fear and pain. 00:11:48.428 --> 00:11:49.648 Thank you for telling me that. 00:11:49.648 --> 00:11:50.718 Now I know who you are. 00:11:50.878 --> 00:11:51.328 Me? 00:11:51.438 --> 00:11:52.388 I don't need to? 00:11:52.678 --> 00:11:56.048 The other thing is, when you look at actual legitimate animal trainers 00:11:56.178 --> 00:12:00.588 who train animals that will kill you, they don't use fear and pain. 00:12:00.838 --> 00:12:03.258 So, you know, some positive trainers have a saying, if you 00:12:03.258 --> 00:12:07.068 wouldn't train a lion that way, don't train a dog that way, right? 00:12:07.188 --> 00:12:09.898 If you wouldn't, if you wouldn't do it to a three year old, 00:12:10.048 --> 00:12:12.328 don't do it to a dog, okay? 00:12:12.728 --> 00:12:14.758 Fear is the underlying cause for aggression. 00:12:15.198 --> 00:12:17.778 So why do you want to create fear, which could create aggression? 00:12:18.423 --> 00:12:24.843 Secondly, if you have a dog who already has a predisposition to being afraid, 00:12:24.853 --> 00:12:28.323 whether it's from their genetics, so if you have a guard dog breed like 00:12:28.323 --> 00:12:32.193 a Rottweiler, a Chow Chow, a German Shepherd, a Doberman, and let's say 00:12:32.193 --> 00:12:36.163 they have a little bit more fear in there, Why do you want to increase it? 00:12:36.543 --> 00:12:36.993 Right? 00:12:37.033 --> 00:12:38.253 You don't want to do that. 00:12:38.413 --> 00:12:41.233 So I work with people and their dogs. 00:12:41.293 --> 00:12:45.363 And in order for me to sleep well at night, I have to go into situations no 00:12:45.363 --> 00:12:50.253 matter where the people are and teaching them how to be safe behaviorally and how 00:12:50.253 --> 00:12:55.593 to be safe just in a general management, pragmatic, everyday life with your dog. 00:12:55.603 --> 00:12:56.573 Let's be safe. 00:12:56.943 --> 00:13:01.303 Because then I know the dog is going to stay sound, right? 00:13:01.363 --> 00:13:05.388 Now, a lot of these trainers who You know, use shock and 00:13:05.388 --> 00:13:06.618 choke and they blame the dog. 00:13:07.378 --> 00:13:11.758 My question to them would be, why do you need to do it if 00:13:11.758 --> 00:13:13.088 you can get it done without it? 00:13:13.098 --> 00:13:16.518 Because I can, I can train dogs without making them afraid, right? 00:13:16.518 --> 00:13:20.598 Because all the legitimate behavior people will agree, sure, you can 00:13:20.598 --> 00:13:23.308 change behavior with shock and choke. 00:13:23.368 --> 00:13:26.608 We're not saying you can't change behavior, but what's left in its 00:13:26.628 --> 00:13:30.518 place, what's left in its place is an overly generalized fear. 00:13:30.718 --> 00:13:34.752 And again, I don't even know if half these pain trainers understand this, right? 00:13:35.363 --> 00:13:38.973 That's the reason why it, quote, works, because the dog has a 00:13:38.983 --> 00:13:41.193 generalized fear to this chain. 00:13:41.693 --> 00:13:46.053 The dog has a generalized fear to this beep, because the beep 00:13:46.103 --> 00:13:47.923 predicts here comes the shock. 00:13:48.153 --> 00:13:48.553 Right? 00:13:48.563 --> 00:13:52.153 See, I understand operant and classical conditioning, inside and out. 00:13:52.173 --> 00:13:57.063 I am not confused about the science of animal behavior or behavior analysis. 00:13:57.063 --> 00:13:57.593 I get it. 00:13:58.913 --> 00:14:03.103 I wonder if they do because I think that they're just choking and shocking 00:14:03.103 --> 00:14:07.103 dogs, hoping the dog stops doing something so the client will be happy. 00:14:07.333 --> 00:14:08.203 But it's been proven. 00:14:08.203 --> 00:14:09.583 You can look at a lot of studies. 00:14:10.218 --> 00:14:15.248 Behavior stays in place and is much more solid when there is positive 00:14:15.248 --> 00:14:18.488 reinforcement and kind consequences. 00:14:18.498 --> 00:14:23.248 I'm not saying I don't give dogs a consequence to teach them, it's just kind. 00:14:23.478 --> 00:14:26.428 So what I always tell my clients is, if you get a parking 00:14:26.428 --> 00:14:27.708 ticket, you're bummed out. 00:14:27.988 --> 00:14:31.208 But what if the consequence was they popped all of your tires? 00:14:31.903 --> 00:14:35.823 What if you got there and your tires were, that's pain, that's misery. 00:14:35.823 --> 00:14:38.713 Now you got to have, you've got to go get your car retreaded, right? 00:14:38.713 --> 00:14:39.793 You got to get new tires. 00:14:40.163 --> 00:14:41.993 So I will bum dogs out. 00:14:42.233 --> 00:14:46.653 I will disappoint a dog, but I won't, but I won't cause them fear and pain. 00:14:47.593 --> 00:14:47.753 Anke: Yeah. 00:14:47.753 --> 00:14:49.963 I mean, that makes, that makes so much sense. 00:14:49.993 --> 00:14:55.053 And it's, it's that, um, that part of like, it's just like humans, you 00:14:55.053 --> 00:14:59.873 know, like you can intimidate anybody into submission, but that pent up 00:14:59.883 --> 00:15:01.053 fear didn't come out somewhere else. 00:15:01.213 --> 00:15:05.843 Drayton: Well, you can't intimidate everybody and dogs are the same way. 00:15:06.003 --> 00:15:08.463 There's some dogs who are like, you know what, screw this. 00:15:08.483 --> 00:15:10.913 I'm biting you and I'm biting the next person. 00:15:11.083 --> 00:15:13.883 So, you know, you know what those trainers, those pain trainers 00:15:13.883 --> 00:15:16.463 do, they say, Oh, there's something wrong with that dog. 00:15:16.493 --> 00:15:18.733 And they don't, they don't go back. 00:15:18.773 --> 00:15:20.513 They quit, they quit. 00:15:20.533 --> 00:15:25.293 Or if the client has been choking their dog for a month and all of a sudden 00:15:25.293 --> 00:15:28.093 it bites their kid and they call the trainer, you know what the trainer does? 00:15:28.403 --> 00:15:29.443 Oh, I'm not coming back. 00:15:29.833 --> 00:15:30.613 Oh, I can't work. 00:15:30.613 --> 00:15:33.403 Anke: The dog isn't trainable, so the dog gets killed basically. 00:15:33.403 --> 00:15:33.853 'cause I've 00:15:33.853 --> 00:15:37.963 Drayton: had clients who've been in those positions and then they contact me and 00:15:37.963 --> 00:15:41.523 I'm like, well, you know, that tells you about the character of that person. 00:15:41.873 --> 00:15:44.903 You know, if I have a client call me back six months later and say, 00:15:44.903 --> 00:15:47.483 Hey, you know the dog's doing X, Y, Z, I'm like, okay, great. 00:15:47.483 --> 00:15:48.263 Let's get in there. 00:15:48.413 --> 00:15:51.383 Let's retool the plan, gimme some history, what's been going 00:15:51.383 --> 00:15:53.123 on and let's give you some help. 00:15:53.303 --> 00:15:53.663 Right? 00:15:53.783 --> 00:15:57.083 But I don't have clients calling me, telling me, Hey, you told me 00:15:57.083 --> 00:15:59.213 to do this, so now my dog is worse. 00:15:59.268 --> 00:16:01.618 Anke: Yeah, that makes sense. 00:16:02.008 --> 00:16:06.488 I mean, that's the thing that winds me up when these like TV personalities 00:16:06.508 --> 00:16:12.298 and there's that there's a Spanish mini me version of of a famous one and it's 00:16:12.308 --> 00:16:17.928 that you can see well they just kind of Stun the dog, shock the dog in the 00:16:17.928 --> 00:16:21.728 moment, and I'm like, I don't really want to know what happens when he's gone. 00:16:21.958 --> 00:16:24.938 And the person's back alone with their dog, you know, and I think 00:16:24.938 --> 00:16:26.518 it, it makes it, it makes it worse. 00:16:26.518 --> 00:16:27.148 Yeah, you're absolutely, 00:16:28.008 --> 00:16:29.088 Drayton: you're absolutely right. 00:16:29.118 --> 00:16:32.978 First of all, you wouldn't want to take parenting advice from reality shows, and 00:16:33.048 --> 00:16:37.088 you wouldn't want to, you wouldn't want to take dog training advice from TV shows. 00:16:37.098 --> 00:16:38.558 Anke: But people do, that's the thing. 00:16:38.818 --> 00:16:39.258 I know, I 00:16:40.168 --> 00:16:41.768 Drayton: went to Animal Planet twice. 00:16:42.228 --> 00:16:43.638 to get a show, okay? 00:16:43.968 --> 00:16:47.508 And I talked to no fewer than nine different producers over the 00:16:47.508 --> 00:16:49.088 course of 10 years to get a show. 00:16:49.308 --> 00:16:51.308 Here's what I'll tell you about people in entertainment. 00:16:51.568 --> 00:16:53.638 They don't care about dogs. 00:16:54.008 --> 00:16:57.428 They don't give one crap about dogs. 00:16:57.598 --> 00:16:58.848 The welfare of dogs. 00:16:58.938 --> 00:17:01.198 They don't care about educating the general public. 00:17:01.518 --> 00:17:05.608 All the people in entertainment care about is, will I make money? 00:17:05.668 --> 00:17:06.718 That's all they care about. 00:17:06.718 --> 00:17:10.688 Because if they actually cared about dogs, they would put out a number of 00:17:10.688 --> 00:17:12.578 shows that could really help people. 00:17:14.378 --> 00:17:18.628 And the first woman I met with at Animal Planet, she was dead in the eyes. 00:17:19.358 --> 00:17:20.798 Dead in the eyes, right? 00:17:20.798 --> 00:17:24.018 Usually when I talk to people about dogs, you get some sort of emotion. 00:17:24.028 --> 00:17:27.348 Joy, sadness, interest, something. 00:17:27.558 --> 00:17:28.818 She was just blank. 00:17:29.088 --> 00:17:32.368 The next time I went up to Animal Planet, I went with Jon Stewart. 00:17:32.408 --> 00:17:33.908 Yes, that Jon Stewart. 00:17:33.938 --> 00:17:36.378 Because I worked with him and his family for about eight months. 00:17:36.678 --> 00:17:37.648 And he brought me in. 00:17:37.688 --> 00:17:39.018 And they still didn't give me a show. 00:17:39.068 --> 00:17:41.698 But they had a little change over in the, uh, You know, they had a little 00:17:41.728 --> 00:17:45.398 changeover in the, uh, management at Animal Planet, but the bottom line 00:17:45.398 --> 00:17:50.338 is, if they really wanted to do it, right, they could, but they don't care. 00:17:50.718 --> 00:17:51.048 Right? 00:17:51.088 --> 00:17:52.058 And they just don't. 00:17:52.078 --> 00:17:56.278 That's why they keep putting on training shows, and I use that word loosely, 00:17:56.278 --> 00:17:59.788 but they keep putting shows out where people are causing dogs fear and 00:17:59.788 --> 00:18:02.658 pain, because they don't care at all. 00:18:03.148 --> 00:18:05.208 And nobody can convince me they do care. 00:18:06.148 --> 00:18:07.558 Anke: Well, I couldn't agree more. 00:18:09.068 --> 00:18:10.488 Drayton: Actions speak louder than words. 00:18:10.708 --> 00:18:12.398 Anke: I do agree, I do agree. 00:18:12.708 --> 00:18:18.348 So, do you work with people locally, or can people get hold of you online, or 00:18:18.348 --> 00:18:20.168 what's the easiest way to get in touch? 00:18:20.168 --> 00:18:20.797 Oh, 00:18:20.798 --> 00:18:21.078 Drayton: yeah. 00:18:21.128 --> 00:18:25.248 I mean, I work with people here in New Jersey, but I've done a fair 00:18:25.248 --> 00:18:27.773 number of Uh, remote consults. 00:18:27.773 --> 00:18:31.633 I actually did a remote consult with a woman in Russia about nine 00:18:31.633 --> 00:18:34.023 years ago and was very successful. 00:18:34.023 --> 00:18:36.183 But yeah, people can get a hold of me through ModernDogTraining. 00:18:36.763 --> 00:18:40.383 com and if they want to do a remote consult, we can do that. 00:18:41.998 --> 00:18:42.308 Anke: Awesome. 00:18:42.718 --> 00:18:44.818 So, but that doesn't, like, you don't have to have a pitbull, 00:18:44.918 --> 00:18:48.334 like, you know, as you said in the beginning, it doesn't really matter. 00:18:48.334 --> 00:18:49.079 I work 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:53.098 Drayton: with every, every kind of, every kind of dog that people have, you know, 00:18:53.118 --> 00:18:57.068 I love all dogs and I want to help people no matter what kind of dog they have. 00:18:58.088 --> 00:18:58.548 Anke: Awesome. 00:18:58.618 --> 00:18:58.848 Awesome. 00:18:58.858 --> 00:19:00.198 Well, thank you so much. 00:19:00.758 --> 00:19:00.988 Welcome. 00:19:00.988 --> 00:19:02.098 Can I plug my 00:19:02.098 --> 00:19:02.658 Drayton: new book? 00:19:02.903 --> 00:19:03.733 Can I plug my new book? 00:19:04.083 --> 00:19:05.223 Anke: Oh, hell yes, please. 00:19:05.553 --> 00:19:06.443 Alright, so, um, 00:19:06.693 --> 00:19:07.623 Drayton: I just put out a book. 00:19:07.653 --> 00:19:09.673 It's called The Puppy Parent's Handbook. 00:19:09.873 --> 00:19:11.153 It's really short. 00:19:11.173 --> 00:19:12.803 You could probably read it in an hour. 00:19:13.103 --> 00:19:18.043 Um, it's, uh, got everything you need to help raise your puppy from house training 00:19:18.043 --> 00:19:22.703 to general training to leash walking to counter conditioning to help your puppy 00:19:22.703 --> 00:19:24.713 with fears or stress or frustration. 00:19:25.143 --> 00:19:26.843 So, uh, you know, it's moderately priced. 00:19:26.843 --> 00:19:29.013 You can get it online wherever they sell books. 00:19:29.628 --> 00:19:31.128 It's available all around the world. 00:19:31.358 --> 00:19:32.478 You can get it on Amazon. 00:19:32.478 --> 00:19:33.728 You can get it on Kindle. 00:19:33.938 --> 00:19:36.788 You can go to IngramSpark and that will help you if you need 00:19:36.798 --> 00:19:38.538 to get the book from overseas. 00:19:38.808 --> 00:19:39.818 So check it out. 00:19:39.828 --> 00:19:40.368 It's good stuff. 00:19:40.408 --> 00:19:40.818 Anke: Awesome. 00:19:40.928 --> 00:19:44.088 We're going to definitely, you know, like do a big plug in the 00:19:44.088 --> 00:19:45.688 show notes and then you slide to us. 00:19:45.688 --> 00:19:46.728 Oh, for sure, for sure. 00:19:46.768 --> 00:19:47.728 It goes on the bookshelf. 00:19:47.798 --> 00:19:48.808 So definitely. 00:19:48.998 --> 00:19:52.058 Cause I guess, you know, when somebody is lucky enough that most, yeah, 00:19:52.058 --> 00:19:54.948 most of mine have been puppies. 00:19:55.623 --> 00:19:57.393 Yeah, there won't be any kind of puppies when they came, 00:19:57.943 --> 00:19:59.653 but, uh, it's kind of a tie. 00:19:59.653 --> 00:20:03.543 It's the, if you get the chance to have a dog as a puppy, I think it's that 00:20:03.953 --> 00:20:09.263 beautiful opportunity to, to get in some, you know, some education early. 00:20:09.993 --> 00:20:10.193 Drayton: Yeah. 00:20:10.193 --> 00:20:12.193 You put your imprint on the dog, which is great. 00:20:12.193 --> 00:20:14.353 But one of the things I talk about in the book right away 00:20:14.353 --> 00:20:15.613 is should you even get a puppy? 00:20:15.613 --> 00:20:17.823 Because there's a lot of leg work, right? 00:20:17.823 --> 00:20:20.623 There's a lot of little extra work that you have to do when 00:20:20.623 --> 00:20:22.533 you get a dog who's eight weeks. 00:20:23.108 --> 00:20:26.808 There's two fear periods during the critical development period. 00:20:27.398 --> 00:20:29.148 Some puppies are really mouthy. 00:20:29.378 --> 00:20:31.758 Some puppies have some separation issues. 00:20:31.788 --> 00:20:33.668 There's the leg work for house training. 00:20:33.998 --> 00:20:36.708 But if you're willing to do the work, it's a great experience. 00:20:36.728 --> 00:20:39.218 And I encourage people to get a puppy. 00:20:39.858 --> 00:20:44.828 One of the things that is kind of, you know, I don't know, I don't want to say 00:20:44.858 --> 00:20:48.388 controversial, but some people feel like, you know, you should never buy a dog. 00:20:48.388 --> 00:20:52.938 And my attitude is It doesn't matter where the dog comes from, as long as the 00:20:52.938 --> 00:20:57.068 people are committed and they love the dog, they do the work, they stand by the 00:20:57.068 --> 00:20:59.328 dog, they're helping the dog every day. 00:20:59.688 --> 00:21:04.888 There's plenty of dogs who cost thousands of dollars and they wind up in a shelter. 00:21:05.348 --> 00:21:08.018 And there's plenty of dogs who were found on the street. 00:21:08.353 --> 00:21:10.353 And they find their way into a great home. 00:21:10.353 --> 00:21:13.173 So again, it always goes back to the people. 00:21:13.433 --> 00:21:15.123 Are the people doing what they need to do? 00:21:15.123 --> 00:21:16.593 Are they getting the right information? 00:21:16.593 --> 00:21:19.533 Is that information based in humane training? 00:21:19.933 --> 00:21:23.273 And if that's the case, then every puppy, every dog is a rescued dog. 00:21:24.213 --> 00:21:24.863 Anke: Oh, I love that. 00:21:24.903 --> 00:21:25.803 I love that so much. 00:21:25.863 --> 00:21:26.743 Thank you so much. 00:21:27.133 --> 00:21:28.473 This is absolutely delightful. 00:21:29.053 --> 00:21:32.753 And, um, yeah, let's provide different programs for puppies. 00:21:33.223 --> 00:21:33.653 Drayton: Okay. 00:21:33.673 --> 00:21:34.313 Sounds great. 00:21:34.493 --> 00:21:35.233 Thanks for having me. 00:21:35.233 --> 00:21:36.103 I really appreciate it. 00:21:36.713 --> 00:21:37.213 Anke: Thank you. 00:21:38.270 --> 00:21:39.500 Thanks so much for listening. 00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:44.320 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:21:44.420 --> 00:21:46.200 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:21:46.990 --> 00:21:50.480 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:21:50.910 --> 00:21:56.480 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:21:56.580 --> 00:21:58.950 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:21:58.950 --> 00:22:02.680 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:04.240 I'd love an introduction. 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:06.550 Email me at Anke. 00:22:06.820 --> 00:22:11.055 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.