Good morning, Grid Connections listeners and welcome to a very special milestone episode of the podcast.
This is our 50th episode and today we have something truly unique to share with you.
I'm your host Chase and joining me today are two incredible guests who are revolutionizing how electric vehicles are being introduced and taught to future generations.
First, we have Brandon Watt.
He's the marketing manager at Switching Vehicles, a company that's making EV technology hands -on accessible for students.
And joining him is Chuck Kauffman, an instructor of alternative fuels at WSU Tech in Kansas, where students are learning EV mechanics using switch vehicle kits in the
classroom.
In this episode, Brandon shares how Switch Vehicles was founded and how their innovative kits are changing the landscape for EV education.
And then Chuck shares how he's using these kits to teach his students at WSU Tech about everything from basic electrical systems,
to high voltage safety and how this hands -on experience is preparing them for real world careers in the EV industry.
Chuck also shares how much he's really enjoying using this platform for teaching in the classroom just because of how it's always evolving and adding new things, everything from
now being able to teach about power steering and going much more in depth to low voltage systems.
And I think that's what really made this episode so great.
And personally, for me, such a fun episode to talk.
Chuck and Brandon about just because that's how I got involved with electric vehicles.
And now it's crazy to think pretty much 20 years ago, I was playing around with electric vehicles, building and racing them in my high school, being a part of the Electrathon
America program where high school students all over the US got to build and race electric vehicles.
Now these admittedly, I was building as I'll mention on this episode, were much less, should I say impressive, at least from a output and performance standpoint.
Still an amazing and great hands -on experience, learning so many great skill sets that I think more students and just people in general should have in life, let alone if they're
interested in the automobile space, especially when comes to electric vehicles.
As we celebrate this 50th episode, we encourage you to share this conversation with at least one person who would enjoy learning about how EV education is shaping the future.
And if you've been enjoying the podcast, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave a positive view on our podcast page.
Your feedback helps us grow and continue to bring you more insightful conversations like this one today.
Thanks for tuning in and here's to the next 50 episodes of the Great Connections podcast.
With that, enjoy.
And we have both Brandon Watt and Chuck Kauffman here today to talk about this technology and what it's doing to make electric vehicles more accessible to high schoolers and people
who are just generally interested in learning more about how they can be part of the industry.
So thank you both gentlemen for coming on today.
Sure.
Yeah, you so much chase
For those who might not be familiar with Brandon why don't you kind of just kick it off real quick and just give a little background on switch vehicles and how this all came to
be.
And then we'll be talking obviously with Chuck about his experience in the classroom and working with students on with the technology as well.
Yeah, so Switch Vehicles was started by the mastermind Peter Oliver.
He's the founder and CEO.
He actually designed it back in 2013 as a consumer neighborhood friendly kind of golf cart -esque with longer range for consumers to buy.
Then the Nissan Leaf came out.
So he pivoted realizing that he could use this as an educational tool after a school came and wanted to buy it from him to teach EVs.
And so we've now built up the program.
It's the kit, which is the SwitchLab EV.
It comes with accompanying curriculum provided by GW.
And then it has lab kits and activities along with a workshop where we make sure the teacher is ready to go with it.
Because it's a pretty complicated Lego kit is what I kind of like to call it.
It's got a lot of pieces.
And so that's what we sell to schools, colleges, trade, vocational, you name it.
If they want to teach EVs, we can provide the solution for them.
And I think it's really cool to just see how fleshed out what your offerings are because you have, as we kind of talked about, kind of the more entry version.
That's an LFP battery pack and you've got lithium ion.
And back in my day, it was like a couple of lead acid batteries and a three and a half horsepower electric motor.
So maybe for those listening, you can kind of share a bit more about the actual specs of this.
Cause this is a definitely much more amped up vehicle than what I was building and racing back then.
be a problem than what I was feeling recently.
stepping stones as they get more comfortable with high voltage and be able to then drive a vehicle that isn't so much as a golf cart as like a speed machine.
I think Chuck could even really talk about the PM96 volt.
you
Yeah, I definitely want to hear kind of your experience.
I guess first, how did you come across?
Well, first, what is what is your background and role in education for those listening?
And then two, we'd love to hear just kind of how you got involved and came across switch vehicles.
Sure, I was 35 years in the field, worked for General Motors all 35 of those years.
Got a little bit of introduction into EVs through Saturn.
Sadly enough, it wasn't the EV1.
We're here in Kansas, we didn't get the EV1.
But got a little bit of background there.
Blew my shoulder out and knee out and I just had trouble wrenching after that.
I I'm gonna have to change direction.
And this opportunity to teach came up.
So I started out here at WSU Tech.
and told them when I started, if they ever decided to do an electric car program, that I'd be interested in teaching that.
Cause I kind of liked the technology and everything that goes along with it.
And after my first year of teaching, they called me in the office and said, Hey, we're going to do an EV class and we want you to teach it.
I said, fantastic.
What do you got for curriculum?
What's going on?
And they said, well, here you go.
And he slid a blank piece of paper across the desk.
So it was pretty much my baby to build from the ground up.
So I did a whole lot of research online and I came across Switch Vehicles.
And I said, wow, this looks like it.
So I went ahead and sent that on through.
And they said, that's just real high money.
And I said, well, somebody needs to start writing some grants.
And so they started writing some grants.
And lo and behold, we ended up with Switch Vehicle.
And we've been using it ever since.
It's been absolutely fantastic.
Just doing wonders for the college.
and the students, they just love it.
That's great.
So from kind of discovery of switch vehicles offerings to then the actual grant writing, how long did it take from that to grant writing to then having students in the classroom
working on the vehicles?
Took about eight months, I believe it was, from the time that we got the grant to the time we got students working on the vehicle.
I kind of planned out the classes and I knew which class I wanted to do it in.
It's our Electrical II platform is where we actually do it.
We got an Electrical I, which is basics, and then we go into Electrical II, which does a whole lot more for AC voltage and so forth.
I wanted the 96 volt lithium because it was a three -phase AC motor, which is much more
like the factory vehicles, it's all AC.
So wanted something that I could compare to that.
Yeah, I think one of the things that's really interesting about the platform you offer, Brandon, is the fact that there's both a low voltage and a high voltage side to it.
Whereas the things we were working on pretty much was purely just an accelerometer, not accelerometer, but the actual accelerator pedal and then a motor and some batteries.
There was really just one wiring loop and it was all kind of a 24 volt system.
So maybe it'd be kind of...
of interesting to hear you explain a little bit about some the sub -systems, Brandon, and then maybe talk about your experience, your students' experience with putting all these
things together.
Yeah, yeah.
So it differs quite a bit from like a go -kart or even golf -kart style, where there's probably only going to be one loom.
Our vehicle has to have two looms because there's a circuit board pretty much behind the dashboard where the brain has to all connect.
And so you have the 12 -volt system, which is like your normal car.
You can add a sound system to our vehicles.
You can pretty much add anything that runs off 12 volts to it, which makes it kind of fun for students.
And then you have the high voltage system, which runs from the battery pack all the way to the control box in the back.
And so this project requires a lot of cable management, a lot of zip ties, a lot of looms, a lot of harnesses.
Just keep things organized and clean because you can kind of teach some OEM or even design techniques with that by making things clean.
protecting wires, making sure they're not touching the hot component and just sitting on it.
And so that's kind of what the whole system includes.
And Chuck definitely probably has experience with it.
Yeah, we've done a bunch of car shows and everything has to be, know, trimmed and clean and look good.
We've got one particular nighttime car show here in Wichita that we decided to take the car to and all the students said, if we're going to a night show, we got to have
underglow.
And so we added the 12 volt underglow underneath it and yeah, it was phenomenal.
It's a big hit.
So with the students working on these systems and putting them together, what do you think seems to be the big, maybe light bulb moment?
Or are you finding a lot of students just already naturally coming in curious about electric vehicles?
Or is there sometimes kind of an uncertainty about the technology?
Well, to be honest, I get both.
get students excited about doing electric vehicles and then I get others, the automotive program filled up and this was their only option.
So they come over and try out the electric cars.
But by the time they leave, they're just ecstatic about it and very excited about what we do and what they've learned here.
The biggest thing I find when you pop the hood on an EV or a hybrid vehicle, you've got all those orange wires, all those silver boxes.
Everything's just scary, you know, to the student.
And after they put the switch slab together, they put their hands on
one of the components.
Same components as in that EV or in that hybrid.
They understand now how they hook up, what they do, where they fit into the whole spectrum.
Now they can go up and hood on that car and not be near as anxious.
Yeah, that's huge.
do you find a of your students are then going kind of into becoming technicians or going to work for the GMs of the world on their EV side or a little bit of everything?
Yeah, I've got Mercedes, BMW, Mini Cooper, Acura, Hyundai, Buick, GMC, Chevrolet, Dodge, all of them.
Of course, they've all got some sort of EV.
I haven't got anybody breaking the Toyota yet.
I haven't figured that one out because Toyota's got a bunch.
But, Vinfast.
I don't know how familiar you are with Vinfast, but we have one dealership down and one of my students is employed there.
He does most of the EV work there.
Yeah, they're going into the field.
the field.
That's great.
So when you're kind of going to these, like what is the actual class look like?
Is it all the same, we're going to go put this together?
Right, imagine this is probably over one or two semesters or if you can just kind of walk through maybe at a high level what the program looks for putting this together and have
the educational brand decide on.
I think our listeners would really enjoy this.
as well.
Right.
SwitchLab has finally put together some new curriculum and I haven't had a chance to go through it.
I just got it yesterday, I think it was.
So I haven't had a good chance to go through it.
So most everything's been whatever I've created or I've stolen.
Trust me, I'm a pirate.
I will take anything from anybody in the EV classes.
But we started out with electrical one and we go over the basics of electricity and I teach it a little different.
I use an army man theory.
I don't know if you're familiar with the Armyman theory of electricity, but I use that theory and then we go into AC Armyman and it kind of helps get a visual to what electrons
are doing, how things are flowing, amps and volts and ohms and how they all work together.
And once we get through the AC, then we start talking about the switch.
We have the relay lab also, which is a switch product, and we put that relay lab together and we get everybody to understand how to crimp wires, how things fit together.
then once everything on the front of the board works...
the electric motor spins both directions forward and reverse, and we can plug it in and disable everything.
Then we start talking about the switch.
And I usually divide up in about five groups, and they start putting sections of it together.
And as they put the sections together, the next day we sit down, we talk about it, what all they did, where everything fit in, and then we come back out to the lab.
and continue on.
And we finally bring everything all together in one chunk and then all those together probably that one day.
ready to run.
So then after several days of putting pieces together and then we'll program it up and get it programmed and then we take it out start driving it.
If not everybody gets a chance to drive it the first day then we definitely spend the second day driving it again.
I'm just gonna have to buy some more tires.
That's the...
They all like to spin that tire because it will smoke it right off of their wheel.
You you brought up something, the army men theory on ACI.
think everything you just said is really fascinating, but you know, that is actually something I haven't heard referenced in a while.
Could you actually explain that to people listening?
Because I bet you most of the people listening aren't familiar with that kind of theory we're presenting in.
Well, the armament theory, you think of the electrons as armament.
And the amplitude is the number of armament that run down the circuit.
The voltage is how strong they are.
And resistance is how rough the road is.
They will use all of their strength through the load, whether it be a motor or a bulb or even corrosion in a wiring harness or anything like that.
But they must return back to the battery.
They've got to go back to the barracks, which we call the battery.
And of course we always say, you know, they get a beer, massage and a meal and they're all strength up ready to go out again.
Okay, so back to full strength.
14 point whatever is 12 .6 volts.
In a high voltage battery, of course, you know, it's gonna be much stronger army men.
Of course, the stronger they are, the less of them I need to do the job.
So that's the basics in the theory and we run with it from there.
Voltage drops are very easy to teach because they're using up strength to get through that connector or that.
that motor or light or whatever it is.
Amp meters count them as they go through a turnstile, so you can vision people walking through that turnstile so you can figure out how many amps there are.
And then of course there's flag men to direct them down the road.
So if you've got a parallel circuit, half the army men going this way, the other half going this way, and we get it taught that way.
Much better than the hose theory, I think, than the water theory, because after the water comes out the hose, where's it go?
And most of your problems on electrical vehicles or any electrical system for that matter on the ground side.
And with not knowing where the water goes after it comes out the hose, how are you going to diagnose that?
And understanding they have to get back to the barracks is a big key.
Yeah, that's great.
I mean, it's been a while since I've heard that, I completely agree with you.
I think the water one works really well for kind of like understanding voltage at a high level.
But when you want to look at the actual kind of whole system and how all these different things work together, how it means it's a very easy way, I think, for a lot of people to
just kind of understand and visualize how all these systems are interacting together.
that beyond it, what have you found?
Obviously, you got this first grant to start the program.
What have you found to be kind of like the uptake and the interest around now that this program is being offered at the school, people wanting to come into it?
Like, is it usually word of mouth or has it been something that just has kind been snowballing as it kind of grows in interest for people to be a part of the offering?
Well, here we're very fortunate here.
We have a group of people who go out to high schools and they bring high schools in and tours.
And of course they tour the lab and the switch lab assembled or disassembled is always in the lab.
And so they get to see it one way or the other.
So it's always, always here.
And when they see it, they get, start asking questions.
It's been huge for enrollment.
This class has grown exponentially.
Admin love it because retention is high.
As long as we have that car here and we're doing those projects, the hands -on, we're out in the lab.
We're not sitting down in a desk, you know, just theory and test, theory and test.
We're out in the shop doing things.
And then they get to drive it afterwards.
Of course, that's exciting.
I've had students from prior classes show up at a car show when we're there and, you know, just beaming and fried, hey, we built that too in our class, you know, and when other
people walk up.
that have never seen a Switch Lab and they ask a question about it, those students jump up and they start answering those questions.
it fills me being able to sit there and listen to them answer these questions that they knew nothing about when they first came to the class and be excited about it like they
are.
Going to the drag strip, taking that car to the drag strip, that's a fun day.
Everybody seems to show up for that, prior students, current students, I'll put it out on Facebook that we're headed there.
and everybody wants to come see what we can do.
We haven't turned it up all the way yet, but everybody keeps asking me to do it.
We usually have the laptop with us when we're there.
And it's just been exciting.
Keeps bringing people in.
Been people from the drag strip see it and they want to come out and see what's going on.
Younger students watching football games and seeing the commercials for all the EVs.
Yeah, they want to do cars, but they know they're going to have to learn the electric too.
So they come out and join this class.
And course we go through steering, suspension, brakes, and that's all stuff they have put together on the switch as well.
Works out well.
Yeah, I think that's a great thing you bring up is just the general interest of driving, seeing them out at tracks and stuff.
Because Brandon, the way we met was actually at the Electrify Expo in San Francisco.
And I was hearing about all sorts of people seeing, and unfortunately I didn't have the chance to drive one, but the interest in it the day before the event with you guys going
out and driving it.
I mean, what has been your biggest takeaway from just trying to get
Yeah, it's I've learned it's but it's butts in the seats and students talking like Chuck said the power students have
to be able to just understand the theory and then apply it to what they're working on and like tell someone about that.
Like the whole process is the reason, like that's what gets me up in the morning.
Like that's super exciting to be able to have students just like hyped about a project and actually get to take away those things.
And teacher seats in the butts helps, but I think the students going to these events like Electrify, we brought Joseph Antolin from our Switch CSI and his whole school with two
switches and his students were there all weekend just talking people up.
I think that has such an impact and really gets parents excited about it, teachers excited about it, administrators.
And then you get to drive really fast.
I think like the cherry on top, it's already such a great thing.
And then you get to go have a lot of fun with the thing you built versus you just, you don't build it and just leave it there.
Or it's not going to just go around the block a few times.
You can go like Chuck and take it to a strip.
You can drive it around town, get people staring at you.
So I think that really does help.
What I've learned is just people getting eyes on it.
They don't know it exists.
EVs are so new.
They're still a baby as an industry.
So I think people just need to know there's options.
Yeah, I think that's a great point.
And obviously when you see something going around, it's a three wheeled vehicle, loads of ground, definitely stands out.
And it is just wild to see like, we'd kind of talk about the thing I've been a part of in high school was the Electra Thought America race, which once again, just this little three
and a half horsepower electric motor, but it's still kind of a fun three wheel thing you made.
And I forget, so what is the power that the switch of vehicles put out?
Cause it's considerably more.
yeah, so if if if you're like us and myself we crank it all the way up to max so we can get about 140 150 horsepower out of it for our top -end model and then I think the lead
acid is somewhere in like the 72 horsepower range about half
But yeah, it's got enough speed to get you up to 90.
At Electrify, I actually got it up on their track up to think 75.
So you can get ripping.
Yeah, if you have a straightaway and you can get that back tire to grip.
I think the thing especially too is yes, it's a hundred fifty horsepower But it's so much lighter than the other cars and so you do have just such a much more performance oriented
driving experience with it Just to kind of Yeah, exactly
So I guess for those listening, can you kind of share a little bit more of the history of switch vehicles?
Brandon how that kind of came to be and maybe some of the evolution as I Chuck even mentioned it sounds like now there's even more that people can access around some of the
education side But yeah, if you could kind of just share a little bit more about the evolution of the company and now some of the evolution of the products
Yeah, so I briefly went over at Oliver or Peter Oliver actually in 2008 was an adjunct professor teaching EV conversions.
He taught EV conversions for about two years and then the grant funding actually ran out.
So they canceled his class at the local state college.
And then he started designing this open body tube framed around town EV that had about like 50 to 70 miles of range, really good price point.
a very basic item that people could just use for their short commutes or going to the grocery store.
And then the Nissan Leaf came out from Toyota, offering pretty much exactly what he was trying to offer at a higher, it's an OEM, so it's a factory.
They were cranking out like vehicle, like their true vehicles with airbags and systems.
And so the local Sonoma CTE, the Local CTE Nonprofit Foundation, saw him driving it one day and they saw how his open body, you could see the components and they're like,
Peter, can we buy this from you for a school?
And then the light bulb went off and he's like, the way I've been R &D -ing this is a perfect student project.
And so that's kind how it started.
It started with a much smaller motor and a much smaller battery in the beginning.
It was only lead acid for a little bit.
And then we added the lithium ion.
We wanted to stay up with OEMs.
And he thought it was really important that we make sure that we continuously keep doing that.
And so as we grew,
We had to buy in more space.
We're now in 360 schools and counting.
And so it's really, really ramping up in the last three years.
Shout out to the COVID grants.
They really, really helped us get into schools because schools finally had large amounts of money to spend on projects, facilities, programs.
And we were right there to offer them as EVs are blowing up.
And so we've continued to do that.
And now we even offer a rolling cart, which Chuck was talking about.
It's a box with all of the components of an EV and it's got a throttle.
can see the motor spin.
It's got a high voltage pack and it's got all the wiring looms and it's much more heavy on the wiring and programming side and system side.
And it allows teachers to use it as a teaching item.
You can roll it between your physics classroom and your engineering classroom, rolled into your auto shop for a day.
We wanted to give teachers an option if they didn't have space for a car because there are a lot of schools that don't have auto shops.
I'm from a small public high school.
I worked on wood.
I made a chair in high school, I think.
So we understand that.
And my high school could actually use the EV trainer very easily, rolling in between their engineering and robotics classes.
And so that's kind of the evolution and our goals in the future are ADOS.
We want to offer ADOS autonomous switch package, where we teach the students the theory of autonomy, whether it's a vision or it's lidar.
We want them to understand it and then be able to install it in the switch.
and then control like a remote control car or just have it drive from point A to point B.
I think that's our next step.
that's kind of our mission is to stay on top of it and still give students something that's exciting, relevant and skills they can go use at high paying careers.
Pick me.
I want to be part of that.
Yeah, definitely want to be part of that ADOS.
Yup, Chuck you'll be a part of it.
You know I bother you all the time for help.
That's wonderful.
Chief it up.
Well, it's interesting you bring that up and obviously Chuck, it sounds like what you're saying, obviously the interest in that is not just for the students, but I'm sure you're
having a lot of businesses and others kind of reach out to you for like that scenario that they're asking for students to be trained in.
Is that, is that true?
Yeah, very true.
We just got some ADOS equipment in here, started aiming cameras and so forth here.
We've got a bunch of industry partners.
That's the key.
Get out to industry, let them see that switch, let them see what you're doing.
And we let them know that we have ADOS here as well.
Some of them are even wanting to send their technicians out here for non -credit classes for us to go through ADOS, explain how it works and actually let them use the equipment we
have out here to set some cars up.
So we're looking forward to that as well.
I think that's such an interesting space right now because there's so many different kind of approaches to what that is for a lot obviously it's kind of a driver assistance
technology, but then there's some that are really pushing the difference between maybe it lets you kind of Do something for a few seconds while the car watches what it's doing and
then there's obviously others that have a Different approach where it's much more on its own what right now Chuck are you and your kind of class looking at and kind of?
going through, what does that look like in the classroom educating on that topic?
we have a certification that is pending.
It is an NC3 certification that students can obtain using this equipment.
I need to be trained on that.
We've got the equipment now, so training should happen later this year for myself.
Once I've been trained, then I can teach those students how to use that equipment too.
I've already used it on some of the vehicles we have here on the lot.
and got some cameras aimed for cruise control and for lane keep assist, those kind of things that weren't working right.
They were donated cars and they were kind of messed up here and there.
And we got them working.
So we're anxious to get started, anxious to get that certification going.
And I'm hoping by next spring we'll be able to offer that certification.
Cool.
So is that like an ASC or who is the one that you have to get certified by or kind of who's established those?
National Coalition of Certificates.
Yeah, that's who we're using for this one.
NC3, they do a lot of snap -on certifications.
They have a Kubota certification.
They get together with like STERET for PMI is what they call it, it's precision measurement.
And they do torque certifications and just a plethora of different certifications in different industries.
There's even a circuit board soldering certification that you can get through.
through NC3.
They're growing, they're getting much larger.
are nationwide here.
We've been using them at this college quite a bit.
And then for as far as ASE goes, we do the ASE pre -test so our students can become pre -certified.
They still have to have their two years experience before they can become actual ASE certified.
But we offer a master's program there.
That's great.
So Brandon, kind of looking at the space, mean, I know there's only so much share with us, but what are some of the areas, is there anything beyond kind of the ADAS technologies as
far as where your team is looking or just getting a lot of requests to expand your team's offerings?
so much to about that.
What are some of areas, is there anything beyond the ADAS technologies, where your team would be interested in lot of requests of your team to do that?
We get a lot of requests for the, kind of like an ADOS lab kit, the lab kits.
They want to have more, I wouldn't call it theory, but activities that relate to the full build before they're getting to the build.
I think they want ways to extend it into a two semester class.
So that's a big request.
Also, we've gotten requests for like a motorsports version or a four wheeled version.
I see the reason they want that, but there isn't really a necessary need because like what we offer right now is still street legal.
The fourth wheel adds a lot of DMV headaches for us.
So the three wheeled motorcycle, we found the gray area.
So it's a three -wheeled motorcycle with a steering wheel, so you don't need a motorcycle license.
And then also you don't need a helmet because there's a roll cage.
So you kind of get that extra gray area leniency.
And it's very safe.
And it's so wide that it's like a boat.
So it'd be really, really hard to roll it.
So the roll cage is just there for extra protection.
But that's kind of what teachers are asking for is mostly.
lab activities and maybe a motorsports version, maybe even more amped up version that kind of relates more to NHRA, like Chuck was mentioning NASCAR Formula One, Formula E, Formula
Drift, like Hoonigan style stuff.
So we've gotten some of those requests and I think our R &D department, I'm trying to convince them and that they want to do it.
It's just the cost of R &D and if we're going to go balls to the wall, we have have customers who want to spend that kind of money because it is going to be a high end
project at that point.
They better treat it like their baby.
Yeah, so that's an interesting question.
I mean, what does that look like?
Is that larger motors, larger battery?
Is it just really everything's upsized and kind of more of motorsport quality or are there other things that kind of are things that may be included other than just upsizing a lot
of the products?
it'd be like a racing seat with like the neck protector So teach like they want lessons on that then you also can get into like drift wheels and wheels like really get into wheels
if we give a motor sport version with a bigger swing arm in the back as then you could take different sized wheels out and we want to also have a more adjustable like you'd have
adjustable springs and shocks so that you could raise it put on bigger tires we want to kind of get into that realm of like
Let's see how crazy we can get.
What kind of shocks can we put on this?
What kind of battery can we put in it that's a little bit more high end?
The motors, we could just do direct drive motors where they attach right to the wheel.
There's no more chain.
That is direct torque.
There is no resistance.
And so those are some of the things we're looking at and seeing.
Are they viable?
Will school's HR accept this?
And so you have to think about students in Liveville.
Yeah, and so those are some of the things That's why like I get teacher seats in the butt and I'll drive to 70 miles an hour if I have an admin or principal I'm just cruising at 45
like look how cool this is Because like there are things where it's a good they have a right to be afraid or like want to worry But if you teach the students the right
techniques you really show them that like they need to care about this vehicle They just built it.
They're not gonna be reckless.
They're gonna be really careful.
They'll get to do their burnouts, but I think
It's designed in a way that makes it as safe as possible.
And it's got all the standard safety features of an OEM EV.
So I think that kind of really helps us get over that wall of fear.
Brandon, I think you're right there.
I think you're right there.
I have less trouble with students driving reckless than I do admin.
We had our foundation head over here and she said, I haven't had a chance to drive this thing yet.
So I threw her the keys to it.
She jumps in it, she takes out in the parking lot.
Next thing I know is out there spinning donuts in the parking lot.
So yeah, I have more trouble with admin than I do students when it comes to actual driving.
Yeah, I that's where I was kind of curious too, because I could see if you were trying to educate or like teach maybe an existing engineering or especially like racing or
traditional combustion engine, like mechanic team.
But then when you start getting to like the high school level, there is definitely another level of just kind of concern around that stuff.
I was doing it.
broke a few sets of tires and had some fun with ours.
So it is not unfounded, but yeah, I totally understand where you guys have come from that it's much more the students kind of understand what they're dealing with versus the admin
side of it.
Yeah, as a teacher it's it's part of their job to instill.
It's high voltage.
That's why we have like a whole safety kit.
There's a whole instruction kit now for labeling.
We even do OSHA labeling.
I did some googling and was like what's OSHA standards?
And then I just labeled our vehicle up to standard.
So like those things students really, really know in their mind.
Don't mess around with this.
It's a fun toy, but you have to be responsible with the toy.
And I mean, I think we've talked about this But it would just be kind of interesting to kind of go through it in a step -by -step process home Maybe a little more detail but
Chuck could you just share like what?
The class looks like is it from kind of like day one?
It's like learning about the electrical side and then Starting with maybe the chassis and then going into the low voltage the high voltage You're just gonna kind of walk through
what that does look like for someone who would be interested in setting up for the class
Each class is five weeks.
We have a brakes class, suspension class, and just move right on through the progress.
We usually start out electrical one first because everything is electrical now.
I mean even brakes and you've got electrical everywhere.
So we start out with electrical one and we run them through that and then into steering suspension, engine mechanical.
Hybrids have reciprocating piston engines so we have to know how to fix those as well.
And then we get down towards the end of second semester, our second year, and we go into electrical too.
We start figuring out more how the motors function, how relays function, how everything functions there.
And that's when we drag in the switch and start talking more about all that.
we're going through, first we start out with the batteries.
And I set up some little things to do.
with 1 .5 volt batteries and we explain how you stack them in a flashlight and you up the voltage and then when you stack them up and put two stacks side by side and link them
together now you're upping up the amp hours or the actual wattage of the battery and then they get to build the battery in the switch lab that solidifies all of it as they're going
and I have them check the voltages as they progress and once we get close to 50 volts the gloves go on
on.
We know that our bodies will withstand 50 volts after that.
It gets questionable.
the gloves go on as they're checking them through the process.
Anything with an orange cable, of course, you know, we do swap batteries out of some of the EVs factory built and Prius, we do a lot of Prius batteries.
And they test those all the time to make sure that they're safe before they continue working on them.
And to drop the case off of a battery, pop the top off.
the top off, the gloves go on immediately until the battery is completely disabled.
So a lot of safety involved in there.
I like to say I scare them to death.
to touch it.
And then I bring them in to how you can touch it and when it becomes safe.
most of the, you know, when you get it disconnected, it's a 12 volt car, good work.
I it's not a big deal at that point.
But, you know, walking them right through, starting out with the electrical one and then try to run through all the other components.
all the other sections and then finish up with building a switch lab, kind of a graduation thing, you know, last class.
You know, they're getting antsy at that point, they want out, right?
And now they've got a reason to show up to class, they've got a reason to be here because now they get to do that.
So yeah, that's kind of way we try to run it through, try to keep the retention, try to keep the students interested and excited.
But a lot of connector building, a lot of soldering, a lot of that kind of stuff goes on first, so they know.
know how all that works.
I make them do a voltage drop test on every connector they build so they know just how good a quality connector they build.
Then I have them compared to a soldered one versus a crimped one.
And it's only a few tenths of a volt, but a few tenths of a volt can make a difference.
for sure and that can add up quickly.
No, that's great to see because that is something I didn't fully appreciate until much older and I think that would have been a great addition of those kinds of little guide
rails to have in the education process of all this.
You've kind of alluded to hybrids and some of those other things that their techs are likely to see in the world.
I'm curious like Brandon, how do
is as far as I understand, all of your systems are fully -bed.
There's no real hybrid or anything other than that.
For those listening, does the education material that you guys offer go over and plug in our hybrid stuff at all, or is it pretty much just fully focused on a fully electric
vehicle?
before it did not, now it does.
So we partnered with GW and their EVS systems approach goes over all high voltage systems in cars, whether it's a hybrid, plug -in,
full just EV straight.
That's something we wanted to add because we knew students and teachers probably had hybrids in their auto shops.
And students will, giving them more opportunities and more options and more things to learn about just helps them down the road immensely.
And so we didn't want to pigeonhole them into EVs only, that's all you can learn.
We wanted, we even have hydrogen in the book.
So we even teach them about hydrogen, which is even more niche, but we want them to find their interest.
Who knows, that kid might be like, I really like these fuel cells.
I'm going to go work for a company developing them.
So yes, now it currently does.
And I think that's really important for us, even if our vehicle doesn't have a gas motor or fuel cells on it, that students still get to learn the theory.
And then hopefully that auto shop has a hybrid or has a fuel cell like activity or lab so that they get that experience still.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
And it's an interesting way to kind of build in that exposure to it.
And then if they can have the real world in the class grade too, when you look at kind of where switch vehicles is headed and kind of the current kind of offerings, it's been
interesting, obviously, time for Chuck and then the other teacher we spoke to at electrify expo, what are you seeing as far as like, how a school adopts this?
it kind of like a curiosity, maybe one kid and then they start adding more and more?
Or is there a lot of schools coming to you with like we want three of these today and XYZ.
I'm just I'm kind of curious like just understanding more about like the mindset of the school is coming to you about it.
that's a good question.
yeah, schools usually come to us out of curiosity at first.
Like Chuck, they're like, all right, I got approval to teach an EV class.
Who sells EV education, curriculums, projects?
We happened to come up and we offered the full gambit.
So that's kind of what usually happens.
And then Chuck probably had to punch up a lot like, hey, I'm here.
You want to pay the bill?
So a lot of that times we get like office admins who get bothered by the teacher.
And then the principal finds out, the superintendent finds out, or their CTE director finds out.
They do some research.
We'll do like web demos with them and show them.
they're like, like it's, cause a lot of people think it's a go -kart because the website may not give a good reference for size.
And so then they see it.
They're like, that's a car.
And I'm like, yeah, you're, you're buying a car technically.
and so a lot of the times it is just curiosity or even it can go top down where we've had department of education.
So where the head top dog called us and was like,
my schools in the state need this, here's a blank check and we just ship them out.
So it depends on kind of how they hear about us or what their initiatives are.
The state I'm referring to is had a Rivian and Hyundai and Toyota battery manufacturing plant open up.
And the department of education was scrambling because those factories I think opened earlier this year and they needed students who could then go to college or even go work on
the line out of high school, work on the manufacturing lines.
And so that's kind of where we see a lot of the teachers coming for us are looking for a solution because they have a lot of job openings and a lot of companies don't want to go
somewhere where they can't find a workforce.
You need to have someone who's going to help your business.
And are you seeing it, is it mostly like high school, is it college, or is it kind of a across the board interest in what kind of schools and educational levels are kind of
coming to you to start working this into the?
I would say it's we're at 50 50 now.
It used to be high school when we didn't have the high end model.
It was the lower end.
And then once we get the high end model, like Chuck tech colleges and community colleges, ears perked up.
They're like, that's close to an OEM.
And so they started contacting us and they're like, we are offering now something more high level.
Some high schools even purchase the high end one if they've got like an engineering pathway or an auto tech pathway, whereby the fourth year the students have fully built it.
Chuck does it in five weeks.
So he's on a very, very different level of skills he has with his students.
They can probably get that done real quick.
If you're looking at high school, they might need a year.
They might need two semesters.
They break it up more because it's just more time to train and get the students familiar.
Some of them haven't even turned a wrench before in the engineering classes.
So these teachers have to teach some very basic skills, but these students need those skills.
And you'll always need to turn a wrench at some point in your life, I hope.
So it's good to teach them there and then.
That's a good point and that that is kind of interesting is like I said I it was a by high school and it was much more Yeah, it was a fully encompassing for anyone and everyone
whether you'd used a welder before or not And I guess what you're probably seeing Chuck is much more they have exposure to working on cars working on stuff but it hasn't been maybe
so much with the electric vehicles or
No, not really.
We have high school that joins the community.
And I've had chance to see the difference between the two.
and a straight blade screwdriver when they started.
It's always driven me crazy is the difference between quarter inch, three eights and half inch drive.
You know, they want to get out a half inch drive, right to take a seven millimeter bolt out, you know, to get that taught as well.
So of course, there's tools.
We teach tools as well in the engine repair section.
So they become familiar with those.
of course, the high voltage tools come into play and we don't use those on regular 12 -volt systems.
We only use them on high voltage systems.
you get the whole realm.
Nobody comes in knowing much.
But then you have the ones that have been working with Grandpa for the last four years and they know pretty much everything.
I use students to teach as well.
If they prove to me they know it and I've got a student that's not, then we're going to put them over there.
We're going to have them help out as well.
it just kind of networks my ability to teach the class.
So I'm kind of curious, Jeff, with your, now that you've been doing this for a while, what, as you were starting this program at your school, what were kind of the things that
surprised you about kind of adding the electric vehicle program or any of the things about just using the switch vehicles program specifically?
The thing that shocked me the most, think, was the negativity.
There was a whole lot of kickback.
Of course, California and East Coast have both had them for a while.
And we're in the middle Kansas, and there's a lot of miles between cities.
And so nobody really, really was even thinking about that.
So there's a lot of negativity at first.
But industry has been the ones who have come in.
I've even had mobile equipment.
such as forklifts, pallet jacks, those kind of things.
Those have all been electric for a very long time and they use propane.
So we teach CNG, hydrogen and electric in these classes, alternative fuels, know, anything but gasoline and diesel.
So we've had a lot of industry support and with that support then has brought a lot of the community support.
Being tied in with WSU has not been a problem.
I mean, that has been very helpful for us.
It is a local college here, it is a state college.
For a while we had a really good basketball team.
We went to March Madness, Top Four, and those kind of things.
So that helped out a lot when we paired up with WSU to get us the recognition and everything that has really set all of our programs ablaze right now.
We're growing so fast.
Our enrollment is record every year, seems like, and we continuously grow.
A lot of that is because of industry.
and that backing we get from them and the support that we get to build employees for EV, hybrid, parts departments, repairing generators, repairing charging stations, know,
anything and everything all along the whole gambit.
For sure, that's kind of interesting.
You mentioned the negativity pushback.
Was that kind of internal on the admin side among the students or just kind of across the board?
And then there was the actual industry asking for help in this.
Well, to be honest with you, Admin here is incredible.
They're always looking to be the leading edge.
WSU Tech has always been leading edge.
We out lead a lot of the CTE around here.
Always building new programs.
We check with the industry.
If there's a new company coming to town, we meet with them.
What do you need?
What can we do to help you?
And so that's always building new things.
And of course, the EV program was part of that.
As hybrids were starting to go to Chevrolet.
You know, we had the Volt in the Bolt for a long time.
And then, know, Ford had several imports are just going nuts with it.
Hyundai is huge into it right now.
Kia, all of them.
They all need the employees.
They all need the students that can fix these cars.
And the old guys, you know, I'm one of the odd ones, I guess.
I always did like the technology, but the old guys, you know, they say, no, I don't want to touch that.
I'm not, you know, that's new.
Give me the old stuff.
And so they stick with the old stuff.
But the new generation coming up is going to have to learn it because it's going to be there whether they want it or not.
And they're embracing it.
They're loving it.
I think the switch has a lot to do with that.
The projects that we do here keep them involved, keep them headed in that direction.
Been real good for us.
great.
No, that's great to hear.
guess for any teachers or anyone listening who's maybe curious about getting it into their school, are there any kind of words of wisdom or recommendations you have, Chuck, for
someone to try and push this and kind of get this successfully implemented?
try to get this thing stop.
Give my admin a call.
The retention is up.
Their enrollment is up.
The excitement is up.
Everything is up and it's great to see and it's minimal effort on my part.
You know, I put the classes together and I teach it and the students get excited and spread the word and you know, Facebook posts, they're recording themselves in class and
posting on Facebook.
are asking about it.
I've got brothers that are coming in.
I had a mother and son in my classes, and she's all excited.
She's going to work for Land Rover.
She's all fired up for Land Rover, so that's where she's headed.
I don't know how many EV things they have out there, but they're going to fall in line with everybody else too, know, this way it is.
yeah, call my admin if you've got any questions at all.
They'll let you know.
That's great to hear.
Was there anything you wanted to add to that Brandon?
Is there anything you wanted to add to that, No, it's Chuck's right.
It's about the admin.
It's about the support of whoever your superintendent is, CTE director, the teacher.
If you get all the buy -in, the admin is going to pull the trigger.
It's a lot easier once you just get everyone on board.
That is the thing is you just got to show people what it is.
Go drive to a local school that has one.
We're around the country now.
So if you are a teacher out there, go to our website, look at the map.
Click the closest one to you and take your principal, your directors there and go see it for yourself.
I think that is probably the best way to sell it is go and see a program in action.
It's not just a website or an image at that point.
It's a real living and breathing program that students are excited about and want to talk about it all night long.
I'll invite everybody to on down, see what we're doing.
As a matter of fact, I'll throw a little quick plug out there.
You're more than welcome to show up on the 20th and 10th in the morning.
We got a ribbon cutting on a brand new lab that we just remodeled.
And if it wasn't for this program, I don't think that would have happened.
Industry is, like I said, is backing us huge.
And we got a state of the art lab going out here.
We got wood tops on the toolboxes so we can do all the EV stuff.
you're more than welcome to show up.
I would love to have everybody come out here on the 20th and be here for that ribbon cutting.
So yeah, come on out.
No, that's great.
I appreciate the invite and hope people listening to this will join as well.
Brandon, I think you kind of alluded to it, but since we're kind of coming up on the time here anyway, what is the best way to learn more about Switch Vehicles for anyone who might
be curious to kind of engage with you in your tune?
the top here anyway, what is the best way to learn more about Switch vehicles for you know, less curious, the more engaged with you in this?
Yeah, I would just go online and go to theswitchlab .com.
Our website has everything you need about our programs, how you can implement it, how you can teach it, what it comes with, the safety procedures.
of the different models and options we offer.
think the website, if you really want to dig into it, is the best place to go.
If you want to see our cool photos, then you can follow us on Instagram at the Switch Lab.
But I think the website is the best way to kind of understand what we're doing and how you can apply it to your programs at whatever school you instruct at.
That's great.
And Chuck, guess if there's anyone who's maybe an aspiring student who's looking to get involved, what's the best way to learn more about your program?
Just go online, wsutech .com.
Look at costs and so forth.
You're going to find that lot of colleges charge way more than we do for automotive programs.
And you can get a dual associates degree.
You can take the automotive program and then spend another semester and take all the EV classes, build the switch in the process, and end up with two associates degrees.
Of course, all your gen eds have to be done in there too.
We've actually got a program in high schools that if they start their junior year and they really want to work at it, they can graduate high school and graduate college with a
associate's degree in either automotive or alternative field.
So that's a huge...
that's amazing.
That's a great opportunity.
Well, for sure, we'll definitely have links to all of that in the show notes today.
But both Chuck and Brandon, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on today.
This is obviously a round that I am personally passionate about and great to see how much it's grown and how honestly approachable it's become now for so many more students and
teaching admins out there.
So I just want to say thank you both for coming on today.
Thank you so much, Chase.
yeah, been fun.
Thank you again for tuning into the 50th episode of the Grid Connections podcast.
I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Brandon Watt from Switch Vehicles and Chuck Kauffman from WSU Tech.
It's truly inspiring to see how they're bringing electric vehicle education to the next generation and preparing students for careers in this rapidly growing industry.
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