WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.230 The opportunity then is to figure out how can those of us who exist in sort of 00:00:04.230 --> 00:00:09.570 this liminal space in between traditional and public help translate that high 00:00:09.570 --> 00:00:14.040 quality scholarship into something that makes for a compelling story. 00:00:14.250 --> 00:00:17.820 And so it's really thinking about who are the audiences we're trying to reach. 00:00:17.850 --> 00:00:21.555 Of course, with each show, we have very specific audiences in mind, but we'll take 00:00:21.555 --> 00:00:22.995 everyone who wants to come to the table. 00:00:24.615 --> 00:00:27.525 Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education 00:00:27.525 --> 00:00:29.685 podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:29.805 --> 00:00:33.015 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company. 00:00:33.315 --> 00:00:37.185 And I'm Jennifer-Lee and the founder of JPod Creations. 00:00:37.185 --> 00:00:38.865 Podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:38.865 --> 00:00:40.305 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:40.425 --> 00:00:43.425 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and 00:00:43.425 --> 00:00:44.775 we can all learn from each other. 00:00:45.015 --> 00:00:50.015 We are growing that community and we talk about it all the time, but 00:00:50.015 --> 00:00:55.475 we're growing that community on Higher Ed Pods, HigherEdPods.com. 00:00:55.955 --> 00:01:00.455 And we're inching towards getting a thousand podcasts in there. 00:01:00.815 --> 00:01:07.175 Today we are chatting with Jeanette Patrick and Jim Ambuske and they 00:01:07.175 --> 00:01:13.860 are with R2 Studios, which is a network of history podcasts. 00:01:14.010 --> 00:01:16.380 Yeah, I'm really excited to talk to them. 00:01:16.380 --> 00:01:20.490 They've got a few great ones, which I wanna be an avid listener of. 00:01:20.490 --> 00:01:24.540 Of course Your Most Obedient and Humble Servant, A Woman's History 00:01:24.870 --> 00:01:26.940 and Worlds Turn Upside Down. 00:01:26.940 --> 00:01:29.700 So we're gonna chat with them what it's like to create these 00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:32.580 podcasts because they're like full fledged research podcasts. 00:01:32.850 --> 00:01:34.110 They are historians. 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:35.670 There's sound effects in them. 00:01:35.670 --> 00:01:38.430 They are really like a treat for the ears. 00:01:38.520 --> 00:01:38.970 Yes. 00:01:38.970 --> 00:01:43.170 This is a great conversation because, and we've chatted with a few different 00:01:43.170 --> 00:01:47.070 networks as of late, but I like this, that it's a network that's all 00:01:47.070 --> 00:01:52.380 focused in on, on the humanities, but more so focused in on history. 00:01:52.800 --> 00:01:57.300 And so we get into talking a bit about how they've created this 00:01:57.300 --> 00:02:00.960 network, but also as Jen, you're saying the, you know, the specific 00:02:00.960 --> 00:02:03.030 podcast that they've created within. 00:02:03.030 --> 00:02:06.030 So with that said, why don't we jump in. 00:02:06.210 --> 00:02:07.260 Leave it to the experts. 00:02:07.260 --> 00:02:08.130 Let's chat to them. 00:02:08.970 --> 00:02:11.220 Jeanette and Jim, it's so nice to have you here today. 00:02:11.220 --> 00:02:13.650 Thanks for joining us on Continuing Studies. 00:02:13.655 --> 00:02:14.195 Thanks for having us. 00:02:14.225 --> 00:02:15.315 Yeah, thanks for having us. 00:02:15.510 --> 00:02:16.710 So let's get into it. 00:02:16.710 --> 00:02:18.030 This is really exciting. 00:02:18.270 --> 00:02:23.660 R2 Studios, as your website says, explores history through podcasts. 00:02:23.690 --> 00:02:27.530 We tell unexpected stories based on the latest research to 00:02:27.530 --> 00:02:29.420 connect listeners with the past. 00:02:29.480 --> 00:02:35.260 Maybe just tell us a bit about the story behind the founding of R2 Studios. 00:02:35.510 --> 00:02:39.230 R2 Studios was founded through a grant from the Mellon Foundation with the 00:02:39.230 --> 00:02:44.390 idea of finding ways to take quality scholarly research and translate it for 00:02:44.390 --> 00:02:46.160 a public audience through podcasting. 00:02:46.310 --> 00:02:50.174 And so we've been fortunate to make a series of series that 00:02:50.174 --> 00:02:51.765 we think really do that well. 00:02:51.915 --> 00:02:56.325 Since then, we've been able to work with a lot of different scholars internal to 00:02:56.325 --> 00:02:59.415 the Roy Rosenzweig Center of History and new media at George Mason University, 00:02:59.415 --> 00:03:04.095 but also a number of great external scholars just to, again, help find ways 00:03:04.095 --> 00:03:10.185 to connect a very interested and excited public audience who wants really exciting 00:03:10.185 --> 00:03:12.165 and interesting stories about the past. 00:03:12.525 --> 00:03:15.375 But they're not gonna go read journal articles and they don't have the 00:03:15.375 --> 00:03:17.295 time to read the latest research. 00:03:17.385 --> 00:03:20.505 But they like hearing these stories and they wanna learn more and dig deeper. 00:03:20.595 --> 00:03:20.774 Yeah. 00:03:20.774 --> 00:03:23.745 And it's keeping with the Rosenzweig Center's mission, which 00:03:23.745 --> 00:03:28.185 is 31 years old now, of using technology to democratize history. 00:03:28.274 --> 00:03:32.265 Our center was kind of at the forefront, really at the cusp of digital history, 00:03:32.265 --> 00:03:37.150 digital humanities in the early 1990s of figuring out how to as Roy Rosenzweig 00:03:37.150 --> 00:03:39.355 would say, put history on the web. 00:03:39.475 --> 00:03:41.665 And the podcast is the next iteration of that. 00:03:41.755 --> 00:03:46.285 Podcasting technology emerged about 10 years after the Rosenzweig Center started. 00:03:46.285 --> 00:03:51.625 It really became a thing in terms of listenership in 2014 with series 00:03:51.625 --> 00:03:54.685 like Serial and whatnot taking off. 00:03:54.715 --> 00:03:58.915 But historians, although they are out there on podcasts, uh, and producing their 00:03:58.915 --> 00:04:03.025 own podcasts, not as much as we would like to think that they should or could. 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:07.950 And in this moment when we're facing all sorts of challenges in the humanities, 00:04:07.950 --> 00:04:12.720 when we have public audiences who may not have been history majors and thought 00:04:12.720 --> 00:04:16.290 history was boring, but have found history through other means in their adult life, 00:04:16.290 --> 00:04:20.910 that podcasting is a really critical way to educate them about the past and a very 00:04:20.910 --> 00:04:23.040 entertaining and hopefully compelling way. 00:04:24.420 --> 00:04:29.160 Maybe I'm stereotyping here, but I'm wondering if, because there's not a lot 00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:34.155 of history-esque podcasts out there, do you think it's because some of the 00:04:34.155 --> 00:04:38.745 historians are maybe a little camera shy or maybe, you know, we always think that 00:04:38.745 --> 00:04:42.135 they've just got their nose in the book and they're studying, so maybe they just 00:04:42.135 --> 00:04:43.845 don't really want to speak about it. 00:04:43.845 --> 00:04:45.945 And that's why we see so many written forms. 00:04:46.035 --> 00:04:46.905 I think that's part of it. 00:04:46.905 --> 00:04:50.295 I mean, and I'm, you know, Jeanette is properly trained as a public historian. 00:04:50.295 --> 00:04:53.865 I'm trained as a traditional historian with a digital humanities background, 00:04:53.865 --> 00:04:55.995 but I think that's a concrete part of it. 00:04:56.055 --> 00:05:00.375 In the academy setting, your audience is your peers and your peers expect a 00:05:00.375 --> 00:05:04.245 very specific form of writing that's not necessarily to inspire you to 00:05:04.245 --> 00:05:08.594 think about new ideas, but not exactly designed to move you emotionally 00:05:08.594 --> 00:05:10.365 or carry you along through a story. 00:05:10.365 --> 00:05:12.315 It's very analytical, it's very critical. 00:05:12.315 --> 00:05:14.175 It's very steeped in historiography. 00:05:14.355 --> 00:05:17.955 You can do that in this mode, but you have to be willing to accept the fact 00:05:17.955 --> 00:05:19.695 that your audiences may be smaller. 00:05:19.815 --> 00:05:23.925 But the opportunity then is to figure out how can those of us who exist in 00:05:23.925 --> 00:05:28.545 sort of this liminal space in between traditional and public help translate that 00:05:28.545 --> 00:05:33.165 high quality scholarship into something that makes for a compelling story. 00:05:33.375 --> 00:05:36.945 And so it's really thinking about who are the audiences we're trying to reach. 00:05:36.950 --> 00:05:39.840 And it's, we'd like to say the widest possible audiences. 00:05:39.840 --> 00:05:42.900 Of course, with each show we have very specific audiences in mind, but 00:05:43.080 --> 00:05:45.690 you know, we'll, we'll take everyone who wants to come to the table. 00:05:45.870 --> 00:05:46.320 Love it. 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:49.980 And when you're historians like yourselves, was this something 00:05:49.980 --> 00:05:53.730 you guys always wanted to be and get into or did you totally 00:05:53.730 --> 00:05:55.140 wanna do a different career path? 00:05:55.200 --> 00:05:56.790 I think I stumbled into history more. 00:05:56.790 --> 00:05:57.510 I enjoyed it. 00:05:57.510 --> 00:05:58.890 I enjoyed the storytelling. 00:05:59.265 --> 00:06:03.044 It was a subject I always really liked, but I didn't initially start out majoring 00:06:03.044 --> 00:06:06.315 in history and it was kind of one of those, I missed those types of classes. 00:06:06.315 --> 00:06:10.424 So I eventually found my way back into history classes and just really enjoyed 00:06:10.424 --> 00:06:12.284 them and wanted to continue pursuing it. 00:06:12.614 --> 00:06:15.734 And then it was the realization of like, you can't do anything with a bachelor's 00:06:15.734 --> 00:06:18.000 in history, so might as well continue on. 00:06:18.255 --> 00:06:18.965 But I think it was, 00:06:18.965 --> 00:06:19.650 I think that's most degrees. 00:06:20.049 --> 00:06:20.289 Right. 00:06:20.289 --> 00:06:20.450 Yes. 00:06:20.655 --> 00:06:23.474 And then the public side was more just the, I was never especially interested 00:06:23.474 --> 00:06:26.205 in writing anything incredibly long. 00:06:26.205 --> 00:06:29.880 Like I did it when I needed to, but you know, I liked to find different 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:34.230 ways to reach wider audiences and enjoyed those types of classes. 00:06:34.230 --> 00:06:36.870 And then internships and experiences outside of a 00:06:36.870 --> 00:06:38.670 traditional educational setting. 00:06:38.820 --> 00:06:41.099 And so, kind of how I ended up in public history. 00:06:41.430 --> 00:06:45.330 I fell into it by virtue of being hired at George Washington's Mount Vernon, where 00:06:45.330 --> 00:06:47.430 I actually first worked with Jeanette. 00:06:47.460 --> 00:06:50.669 As you know, I was a traditionally trained historian with a background in digital 00:06:50.669 --> 00:06:54.239 history, digital humanities, but when I was hired to run the Center for Digital 00:06:54.239 --> 00:06:58.590 History at Mount Vernon, part of the gig was hosting a podcast that was then called 00:06:58.590 --> 00:07:00.570 Conversations at the Washington Library. 00:07:00.719 --> 00:07:01.830 I had no idea how to do that. 00:07:02.010 --> 00:07:04.919 I had to learn very quickly, and fortunately I was able to rely on 00:07:05.340 --> 00:07:09.240 previous teaching experience to think about how I was going to shepherd 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:10.830 a guest through an interview. 00:07:10.890 --> 00:07:13.530 And then from there, actually Jeanette and I developed a narrative series 00:07:13.530 --> 00:07:18.570 about the enslaved community at Mount Vernon called Intertwined that helped 00:07:18.570 --> 00:07:22.250 us think about what it would take to write narrative history podcasts. 00:07:22.315 --> 00:07:24.625 And then we ended up both at George Mason. 00:07:24.715 --> 00:07:28.045 That's, that is I, I, I, I love the twists and turns there. 00:07:28.165 --> 00:07:32.335 My son is just going to University of Toronto and history, so we've been 00:07:32.425 --> 00:07:35.725 talking about the importance of a history degree and what he's gonna do 00:07:35.725 --> 00:07:37.375 with his history degree and everything. 00:07:37.375 --> 00:07:40.885 So, but I have really been personalized a little bit. 00:07:41.095 --> 00:07:44.935 I think podcasting has really helped me get into history more. 00:07:45.330 --> 00:07:49.110 I mean, obviously I live in a podcasting world, so I listen to a lot of podcasts. 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:53.040 But other than like the business podcasts and the podcasts about 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:58.050 podcasting, which I listen to a lot of, I've really been drawn to history 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:02.280 podcasts as of late, and there's more out there than you think actually. 00:08:02.340 --> 00:08:06.540 Jeanette, why do you think that podcasts are such a particularly 00:08:06.540 --> 00:08:11.729 powerful medium for engaging a, a wider audience with history? 00:08:11.820 --> 00:08:13.080 I think some of it is just the medium. 00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:16.109 I mean, people can listen to whatever they want, you know, wherever they 00:08:16.109 --> 00:08:17.549 are while they're doing other things. 00:08:17.880 --> 00:08:21.720 But I think good history is all about really interesting stories and it's 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:27.750 easy to think about how to turn the critical arguments into a story. 00:08:27.750 --> 00:08:32.850 And so I think that podcasting lets us think about a discipline that the general 00:08:32.850 --> 00:08:37.770 public doesn't understand as story focused and help them see that aspect of it. 00:08:37.770 --> 00:08:41.669 The, the good history podcasts don't harp on dates and facts and memorizing things. 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:44.820 They really wanna pull you in and show you the complexities and show you 00:08:44.820 --> 00:08:49.680 different players and help people just understand better what was happening. 00:08:49.680 --> 00:08:51.479 And, and there are many different ways to do that. 00:08:51.479 --> 00:08:54.359 We do it mostly through narrative, but also through some interview shows. 00:08:54.359 --> 00:08:59.040 But I think the interview shows also allow scholars to do that by, you know, pulling 00:08:59.040 --> 00:09:03.719 out the most interesting people or events or moments and really dig into why they're 00:09:03.719 --> 00:09:07.619 interesting or, you know, those archival moments that are fun and that you discover 00:09:07.619 --> 00:09:10.380 something that no one else knew was there. 00:09:10.380 --> 00:09:14.430 And so, you know, I think that that just, it allows people to see the 00:09:14.430 --> 00:09:19.020 aspect of the discipline, that I think is why a lot of historians end up in 00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:23.310 the discipline, that people just don't realize is such a key point to it. 00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:27.479 So I'd love to just sort of dig in a little bit like, 'cause as our show, 00:09:27.479 --> 00:09:31.319 we're really talking to other podcasters in academia and in higher education. 00:09:31.650 --> 00:09:35.100 Maybe just sort of like, let's just, I'd like to drill a little bit on the network 00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:38.790 you've created because I think this is a really interesting thing for podcasters 00:09:38.790 --> 00:09:40.200 to sort of think about a network. 00:09:40.319 --> 00:09:44.069 Did R2 start out with this vision of we're going to be a network? 00:09:44.069 --> 00:09:47.400 I think there's seven podcasts as part of R2 Studios, if I have that right. 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:50.819 You started with a grant, as you mentioned, which is fantastic, but 00:09:50.819 --> 00:09:54.780 like was the vision always we're gonna create this network of podcasts, or 00:09:54.780 --> 00:09:57.855 did it start with one or two of those projects you mentioned and kind of 00:09:57.944 --> 00:09:59.385 just sort of turn into a network? 00:09:59.475 --> 00:09:59.745 Yeah. 00:09:59.805 --> 00:10:01.005 Vision was always a network. 00:10:01.005 --> 00:10:05.535 Abby Mullen created Consolation Prize as kind of a test case to see how 00:10:05.535 --> 00:10:10.365 could academic scholars create podcasts that were for a wider audience. 00:10:10.695 --> 00:10:15.555 And through that series and learning how to make a, a show 00:10:15.555 --> 00:10:19.695 with a wider focus, we were able to then grow and build on that idea. 00:10:19.695 --> 00:10:22.735 And so from the beginning, the hope was that R2 Studios would 00:10:22.735 --> 00:10:27.595 be a network of series created by historians for a wider audience. 00:10:27.775 --> 00:10:30.954 I think our thought was that we're fortunate to work with a lot of 00:10:30.954 --> 00:10:34.285 great scholars who can tell just so many different types of stories 00:10:34.285 --> 00:10:35.694 to different types of audiences. 00:10:35.694 --> 00:10:39.175 And from the start, we wanted to make something that was more than just our 00:10:39.175 --> 00:10:42.865 research center, putting out one series at a time, but really thinking about 00:10:42.865 --> 00:10:46.435 this network and how we could bring people in and have them listen to some 00:10:46.435 --> 00:10:48.834 of our shows and then broaden to others. 00:10:49.185 --> 00:10:51.315 Yeah, it's about creating an ecosystem. 00:10:51.585 --> 00:10:55.665 Certain shows like the Humble Servant, Your Most Obedient Humble Servant, which 00:10:55.665 --> 00:11:00.555 is an interview type program and a few others we've got in the works in terms 00:11:00.555 --> 00:11:04.575 of the interview format, something like that we can conceivably produce at higher 00:11:04.575 --> 00:11:09.825 volume and then bring those listeners back into our ecosystem so that they can 00:11:09.825 --> 00:11:14.820 enjoy some of our more narrative shows, which take a lot longer time to produce. 00:11:15.180 --> 00:11:18.990 So if, if we can kind of create a, a productive feedback loop between 00:11:18.990 --> 00:11:22.260 our series and, you know, strike partnerships or work collaboratively with 00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:26.070 colleagues, not only internally to our university, but elsewhere, then we can 00:11:26.070 --> 00:11:30.660 create relationships and networks that enhance our existing infrastructure. 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:36.300 And offer our audiences a number of choices and selections that hopefully 00:11:36.300 --> 00:11:37.590 they can't get anywhere else. 00:11:37.954 --> 00:11:42.515 And podcasting is a lot of work, regardless of whatever theme 00:11:42.515 --> 00:11:44.615 you're talking about or whatever topic you're talking about. 00:11:44.735 --> 00:11:48.334 But for you guys, because history, obviously you're always studying it, 00:11:48.334 --> 00:11:51.395 you're always researching it, but it, it takes long lengths to know 00:11:51.395 --> 00:11:53.975 what you guys are talking about and to make sure that you're credible. 00:11:53.975 --> 00:11:56.735 So how long does it take to put these podcasts on? 00:11:56.855 --> 00:11:58.055 Excellent question. 00:11:58.115 --> 00:12:02.795 It varies by series, but to kinda give you a sense of World's Turned Upside 00:12:02.795 --> 00:12:08.579 Down, which is my primary series, between reading, doing research, finding 00:12:08.579 --> 00:12:12.810 some primary sources, interviewing scholars, sitting down and thinking 00:12:12.810 --> 00:12:16.199 about what we've recorded and what we want to achieve, and then actually 00:12:16.199 --> 00:12:17.670 writing a script and recording it. 00:12:17.670 --> 00:12:20.880 We're probably looking at a two month production time on an episode. 00:12:20.969 --> 00:12:24.810 The thing I wanna stress though, is that this is not a series that 00:12:24.810 --> 00:12:28.709 I could have done 10 years ago, fresh out of graduate school. 00:12:28.770 --> 00:12:31.920 I mean, I, my primary focus is the American Revolution. 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:36.210 That was my PhD and so I had read a ton of books by that point, but the 00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:41.730 subsequent literature and the publications over the last 10 years have been so 00:12:41.730 --> 00:12:45.030 compelling and have really begun to reshape thinking about the revolution 00:12:45.030 --> 00:12:50.220 in pretty amazing ways, that in a lot of ways, it required this buildup time 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:54.180 so that I could come to the table with this literature in my head and say, all 00:12:54.180 --> 00:12:56.070 right, here's the framing for this series. 00:12:56.070 --> 00:12:58.380 Here are what the episode themes are gonna be. 00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:00.630 Here are the top people we want to talk to. 00:13:00.870 --> 00:13:01.950 Let's get after it. 00:13:02.314 --> 00:13:07.925 I think it would've been difficult to launch a series soon after I graduated, 00:13:07.955 --> 00:13:11.735 'cause as well read as I was at that point, now I feel like I'm in a very good 00:13:11.735 --> 00:13:13.955 position to make a real contribution. 00:13:14.285 --> 00:13:18.005 I don't think that enough people do their research before cracking the mic on. 00:13:18.005 --> 00:13:20.345 It doesn't necessarily have to be history related. 00:13:20.345 --> 00:13:22.715 It could be current events, it can just be fashion, it could 00:13:22.715 --> 00:13:23.525 be whatever we're talking about. 00:13:23.555 --> 00:13:25.055 You need to know what you're talking about. 00:13:25.175 --> 00:13:29.835 And everyone has this misconception that like, oh, if I'm prepped, I'm 00:13:29.835 --> 00:13:33.885 not gonna come off as like loose and like it's just gonna seem natural. 00:13:33.885 --> 00:13:34.425 And I'm like, no, no. 00:13:34.425 --> 00:13:35.925 That's how you seem natural. 00:13:36.135 --> 00:13:38.235 Is it 'cause you know what you're talking about. 00:13:38.505 --> 00:13:41.505 So I would just feel that in history, two months. 00:13:41.505 --> 00:13:45.495 That feels like a lot of commitment to make sure that your episodes are solid. 00:13:45.990 --> 00:13:49.470 Yeah, it's, it's pretty intense and, you know, I'm stubborn and so I probably 00:13:49.470 --> 00:13:52.800 don't help myself sometimes, where I'm like, I must read one more book, 00:13:52.800 --> 00:13:54.600 or we must interview one more person. 00:13:54.660 --> 00:13:58.350 But again, I think, as I said earlier, it could not have happened a few years ago. 00:13:58.350 --> 00:14:01.050 And I, I come at this series very different, I think, than a 00:14:01.050 --> 00:14:03.870 lot of other historians of the American Revolution might have. 00:14:03.930 --> 00:14:08.900 In my case here, I'm less interested in the independence of the United States than 00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:13.130 I am in the collapse of British America, which transforms not only people and what 00:14:13.130 --> 00:14:17.180 becomes the United States, but of course up in Canada where some of you are now. 00:14:17.180 --> 00:14:21.209 And that makes our history intrinsically and inevitably linked. 00:14:21.270 --> 00:14:25.439 And so we have to think about what were the consequences for that imperial crisis 00:14:25.439 --> 00:14:30.120 that not necessarily created just one country, but several in a very real sense. 00:14:30.209 --> 00:14:35.459 I, I gotta say, I have started listening to the World's Turned Upside Down podcast 00:14:35.459 --> 00:14:37.439 and, um, a couple episodes into it. 00:14:37.650 --> 00:14:42.329 I'm really enjoying it, and I can understand how it is so time consuming. 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.840 We'll put the link to everything in our show notes just for people listening. 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.390 But there's a lot of sound engineering there. 00:14:48.390 --> 00:14:54.000 There's not just narration, there's sound effects and music and really good 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:59.250 storytelling, but it's super interesting to hear your background take on it 00:14:59.250 --> 00:15:00.750 as well, like just what you've said. 00:15:00.750 --> 00:15:03.660 I just find that really interesting, that overarching narrative 00:15:03.660 --> 00:15:04.650 that you've just provided. 00:15:04.950 --> 00:15:05.820 Well, thank you very much. 00:15:05.880 --> 00:15:10.545 Yeah, and I'm curious because with history, obviously there's a lot of 00:15:10.545 --> 00:15:13.305 research in it, but some people might think they know better than you. 00:15:13.305 --> 00:15:17.085 Do you guys ever get comments challenging what you're talking about 00:15:17.085 --> 00:15:20.685 or people adding to the conversation, maybe some tidbits that you didn't 00:15:20.685 --> 00:15:22.545 know or you missed or left out? 00:15:22.755 --> 00:15:26.235 Occasionally, particularly on YouTube, it seems, and usually it comes down to 00:15:26.235 --> 00:15:29.085 my pronunciation with certain words. 00:15:29.115 --> 00:15:33.825 Sometimes I will just bungle an indigenous name or place name. 00:15:33.825 --> 00:15:37.605 Not intentionally, but sometimes I just don't get it right. 00:15:37.665 --> 00:15:40.995 Somebody was critical of the way I said Tobago versus 00:15:40.995 --> 00:15:43.275 Tobago in one of the episodes. 00:15:43.275 --> 00:15:50.655 But we work really hard to ensure that what we produce meets muster with our 00:15:50.715 --> 00:15:57.165 peers in the academy, so that when we do the storytelling aspects of it, it will 00:15:57.165 --> 00:16:02.355 be correct and consistent with the best interpretations, but also then compelling. 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:07.305 And, you know, Jeanette plays a critical role in this because sometimes my scripts 00:16:07.305 --> 00:16:10.665 can get very long as if you've looked at the timestamps for Worlds on the 00:16:10.665 --> 00:16:14.415 episode lengths, and so she's always very good about, all right, we need 00:16:14.415 --> 00:16:16.035 to cut the fat, this is ridiculous. 00:16:16.035 --> 00:16:17.505 You can't say it this way. 00:16:17.745 --> 00:16:19.215 Is there a source for this? 00:16:19.215 --> 00:16:23.925 So it's really good to have that feedback loop with each other to ensure that 00:16:23.925 --> 00:16:25.905 we're really doing our due diligence. 00:16:26.385 --> 00:16:28.815 Who do you see as your ideal audience? 00:16:28.845 --> 00:16:31.845 You did say a while back that you've got a wider audience, 00:16:31.845 --> 00:16:35.340 but who is that ideal audience? 00:16:35.760 --> 00:16:38.460 And maybe just sort of second part of that is have you been surprised 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:40.680 at all by who is actually tuning in? 00:16:40.680 --> 00:16:42.300 Anything that sort of surprises you there? 00:16:42.390 --> 00:16:42.630 Yeah. 00:16:42.630 --> 00:16:45.600 I think the ideal audience varies for each of our series. 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:50.340 They are similar in style, but we know that one of our series, The Green Tunnel, 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:53.160 which is a history of the Appalachian Trail and the target audience was for 00:16:53.160 --> 00:16:58.200 people who really enjoyed their hobby of hiking and spending time outdoors 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:02.130 and wanted to learn more about the history of their leisure activity. 00:17:02.370 --> 00:17:06.750 And so for that series it was thinking about what topics and I would bring 00:17:07.020 --> 00:17:11.440 them into the series, and how could we hook that audience, who maybe wouldn't 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.950 describe themselves as history lovers, but did in fact want to learn more 00:17:14.950 --> 00:17:17.829 about how they spend their free time or the locations that they're in. 00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:20.890 With series like Worlds Turned Upside Down and Your Most Obedient Humble 00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:24.609 Servant or Antisemitism USA, I think we were thinking of a slightly different 00:17:24.609 --> 00:17:28.089 audience in that we were thinking about people who were interested in learning 00:17:28.089 --> 00:17:32.490 more about the history of our country or a specific aspect of that history. 00:17:32.669 --> 00:17:35.760 And people who would describe themselves as in their free time wanting to 00:17:35.760 --> 00:17:39.840 go to museums or historic sites and who just really wanted to better 00:17:39.840 --> 00:17:44.250 understand these different moments in our past or how they're interrelated. 00:17:44.520 --> 00:17:48.120 And like learning new things as part of their leisure activity. 00:17:48.179 --> 00:17:51.435 And so they're the people who wanna listen to a history show while 00:17:51.435 --> 00:17:53.415 walking the dog or doing the dishes. 00:17:53.504 --> 00:17:56.445 I think what surprised us the most about the World's audience is we've gotten a 00:17:56.445 --> 00:17:59.685 number of comments from people who talk about listening with their children, 00:17:59.835 --> 00:18:02.835 and I think that that's not something we were expecting because, you know, 00:18:02.835 --> 00:18:05.175 it is a, it's a very violent series. 00:18:05.235 --> 00:18:07.925 There's a lot of death in most episodes because it was a bloody 00:18:07.925 --> 00:18:09.605 time in our country's history. 00:18:09.815 --> 00:18:13.235 It's not something that I think we thought would be a family activity. 00:18:13.265 --> 00:18:16.685 So that has been really fun to hear people talk about, you know, excited 00:18:16.685 --> 00:18:20.045 to listen with and we suspect they're older children, but I think that's 00:18:20.045 --> 00:18:23.765 what surprised us the most about like comments from the World's audience. 00:18:24.035 --> 00:18:27.845 I do like what you said about the audience and there's different audiences. 00:18:27.845 --> 00:18:31.595 And then if I go back to what you were saying about the network, and 00:18:31.595 --> 00:18:36.750 that network effect is you may pull someone in through one podcast, they're 00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:41.219 exposed to other ones and you can really sort of cross pollinate, open 00:18:41.219 --> 00:18:44.760 up that audience and like obviously that's part of your strategy there. 00:18:44.810 --> 00:18:47.370 That you've got different shows, different audiences, but there's 00:18:47.370 --> 00:18:50.429 that cross pollination if you will. 00:18:50.489 --> 00:18:53.250 And I think that's a really interesting strategy that you're employing. 00:18:53.370 --> 00:18:53.610 Yeah. 00:18:53.610 --> 00:18:57.780 And it's fun to see how people who were listening to The Green Tunnel 00:18:57.780 --> 00:18:59.280 engage with some of our other shows. 00:18:59.669 --> 00:19:03.270 'Cause that is a very different audience than a lot of the people 00:19:03.510 --> 00:19:07.020 who listen to Worlds or Humble Servant or Antisemitism USA. 00:19:08.190 --> 00:19:09.120 It's an opportunity, right? 00:19:09.120 --> 00:19:13.800 You're not gonna capture 50% of one show on another show, but if you get 10% 00:19:13.800 --> 00:19:16.470 who are like, oh, this is interesting. 00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:20.940 Let's give this a try, then we've done our job in a sense. 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:24.060 We've exposed them to a different aspect of history they may 00:19:24.060 --> 00:19:25.169 not have considered before. 00:19:25.379 --> 00:19:29.010 I think this is the power of networks and thinking about this way, and we 00:19:29.010 --> 00:19:34.500 talk about this with a lot of higher education podcasters, is we'll come 00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:39.510 across or we work with, you know, one podcast in one school and we're trying 00:19:39.510 --> 00:19:44.389 to encourage them to think about, you know, rising tides lifts all boats. 00:19:44.439 --> 00:19:48.240 Like just 'cause you're in the law school doesn't mean you can't engage 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.830 with this great podcast coming out of the school of engineering kind of a thing. 00:19:52.830 --> 00:19:57.540 And R2 Studios is focused on, is more tightly focused on history. 00:19:57.540 --> 00:20:02.639 But I think there's something here for all of us higher education podcasters 00:20:02.639 --> 00:20:07.050 to think about this network effect and pulling someone in through one 00:20:07.050 --> 00:20:09.330 introduces you to these other podcasts. 00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:12.450 Well, you're absolutely right, and what you're describing is a very 00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:16.830 university thing to do, which six different departments or divisions 00:20:16.830 --> 00:20:21.570 are all starting kind of the same methodology or same project or a podcast. 00:20:21.570 --> 00:20:25.920 And, you know, at Mason we're very fortunate to have an internal recording 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:29.550 studio, but we could walk to the library, there's a sound booth there. 00:20:29.550 --> 00:20:32.820 There's, in the student center, there's actually two I think, and 00:20:32.820 --> 00:20:36.060 then in the new Arlington campus they have built another one. 00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:38.130 And it's just what universities do, right? 00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:40.680 The parts are so big they don't talk to each other. 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.730 And there are some attempts at coordination, but you know, it would 00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:49.425 be to the university's benefit to kind of have these all under one umbrella 00:20:49.425 --> 00:20:50.775 or at least a centralized place. 00:20:50.775 --> 00:20:54.675 So if somebody was interested in the University of British Columbia 00:20:54.675 --> 00:20:57.915 or George Mason University, they could go to that place and see 00:20:57.915 --> 00:21:01.345 what's what on campus or what people are doing on campus and producing. 00:21:01.525 --> 00:21:04.635 And I think we've seen this a lot with the commercialized networks. 00:21:04.635 --> 00:21:08.925 I mean, that is how you see these large studios, some as big as Wondery, but 00:21:08.925 --> 00:21:12.915 then there are smaller ones that have slightly more niche topicality, but 00:21:13.245 --> 00:21:16.065 they're using the network method to do, which is what you've described, to 00:21:16.065 --> 00:21:19.515 funnel people in and get them interested in one show and then expose them to 00:21:19.515 --> 00:21:21.449 all of the other connected shows. 00:21:21.449 --> 00:21:24.929 And so I think that's something that we've also been trying to pay attention to is 00:21:25.290 --> 00:21:26.970 who is being commercially successful. 00:21:27.209 --> 00:21:30.209 And even though, you know, we have a different mission than those 00:21:30.209 --> 00:21:34.830 organizations, how can we think about using those strategies with R2 Studios? 00:21:35.340 --> 00:21:36.060 That's smart. 00:21:36.060 --> 00:21:40.050 Because I think sometimes, you're right, there's a different mission for, you 00:21:40.050 --> 00:21:44.310 know, there's a different reason for podcasting than a monetized podcast per 00:21:44.310 --> 00:21:51.149 se, but it doesn't mean that we can't look to those commercial monetized podcast 00:21:51.149 --> 00:21:55.409 networks for learnings and to apply those learnings in the academic world as well. 00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:58.379 I also feel like there's missed opportunities sometimes with these 00:21:58.439 --> 00:22:02.189 universities that maybe don't realize there is networks or there's other 00:22:02.189 --> 00:22:06.179 podcasts out there that if you have the right topic or you are able 00:22:06.179 --> 00:22:10.429 to bring people on why don't we do cross-promotion to help everybody? 00:22:10.530 --> 00:22:13.659 Yeah, and it's funny too, it's particularly an issue in the humanities 00:22:13.659 --> 00:22:18.070 where there's this idea, well, we have contributed to the knowledge of 00:22:18.070 --> 00:22:23.290 humanity and we will not talk about it because that would be bragging. 00:22:23.370 --> 00:22:27.615 And it's like, you know, if you're fans of the, of Boiler Room, which was sort of 00:22:27.615 --> 00:22:31.035 my generation's Wall Street, one of the big lessons from that is A, B, C. Right? 00:22:31.035 --> 00:22:31.965 Always be closing. 00:22:32.055 --> 00:22:34.965 Like you've gotta get out there and, and sell your stuff and 00:22:34.965 --> 00:22:36.315 with it in a very strategic way. 00:22:36.315 --> 00:22:40.095 And I think it's in this moment as, as we've been sort of talking about when 00:22:40.245 --> 00:22:43.635 the humanities are in question, when universities themselves are in question, 00:22:43.635 --> 00:22:48.120 I think it's incumbent on us to do as much as we can to talk about the work 00:22:48.120 --> 00:22:49.679 and the value we bring to society. 00:22:49.679 --> 00:22:51.449 And this is a really great medium to do that. 00:22:51.629 --> 00:22:54.570 And why should we spend so much time and effort on these projects if we're 00:22:54.570 --> 00:22:56.850 not gonna tell people about them so that they can listen to them? 00:22:56.850 --> 00:22:59.159 It's not even like thinking about like, oh, we're bragging about, no. 00:22:59.159 --> 00:23:01.229 It's like we did this so people can listen. 00:23:01.260 --> 00:23:03.330 Let's tell people so that they do listen. 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:03.959 Yeah. 00:23:04.335 --> 00:23:05.145 You're completely right. 00:23:05.235 --> 00:23:05.955 You're totally right. 00:23:05.955 --> 00:23:08.115 So I'm just gonna switch gears a little bit here. 00:23:08.175 --> 00:23:13.395 I think one of the things that we come across or hear is when 00:23:13.455 --> 00:23:17.325 launching things, getting things up and going, is that initial funding. 00:23:17.355 --> 00:23:21.555 And I think unfortunately we're gonna start to see more of that I think in the 00:23:21.555 --> 00:23:26.475 coming months in the academic world with sort of the political climate right now. 00:23:26.505 --> 00:23:30.135 But how did the, just sort of recognizing the fact that it's other 00:23:30.135 --> 00:23:34.020 podcasters listening to this and what we can learn, but is there anything 00:23:34.020 --> 00:23:40.440 you can share about that initial grant from the Andrew Mellon Foundation? 00:23:40.995 --> 00:23:44.625 And how that helped get things up off the ground. 00:23:44.685 --> 00:23:47.955 And does that help fund ongoing? 00:23:48.044 --> 00:23:50.655 Is there sort of anything there you can share with us from a 00:23:50.655 --> 00:23:52.425 support and funding perspective? 00:23:52.485 --> 00:23:56.324 I think you'd mentioned something else as well, Jim, about that, but maybe 00:23:56.324 --> 00:23:59.820 you could help unpack that for other podcasters in higher education trying 00:23:59.820 --> 00:24:01.155 to figure out how to fund things. 00:24:01.274 --> 00:24:04.950 You know, we were fortunate to receive a grant from the Mellon 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:08.370 Foundation that allowed us to establish both of our positions. 00:24:08.550 --> 00:24:12.810 But part of that was thinking creatively about how to continue funding the studio. 00:24:12.810 --> 00:24:17.310 And so a lot of it has been thinking about this commercialized model and you know, 00:24:17.310 --> 00:24:22.260 just figuring out like, institutionally, how can we set up, you know, some sort 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:24.270 of like Patreon or something like that. 00:24:24.270 --> 00:24:27.000 And so thinking about like as part of a history department. 00:24:27.375 --> 00:24:29.205 You know, membership is not a thing. 00:24:29.265 --> 00:24:32.055 And so it's been, you know, spending a lot of time thinking about how to 00:24:32.055 --> 00:24:37.425 create standard commercial podcasting processes inside a university setting. 00:24:37.425 --> 00:24:39.885 And some we've been successful with and others like George Mason 00:24:39.885 --> 00:24:41.445 University is a state school. 00:24:41.445 --> 00:24:43.905 And so there are just some like weird hoops we've not been able 00:24:43.905 --> 00:24:46.725 to jump through no matter how many times in different ways we've tried. 00:24:46.785 --> 00:24:50.085 And so, you know, we are still heavily reliant on grant funding 00:24:50.085 --> 00:24:53.145 and philanthropic gifts as a studio. 00:24:53.505 --> 00:24:58.590 And so I don't think we have cracked how to, you know, how to really 00:24:58.590 --> 00:25:01.199 do this on that side of things. 00:25:01.379 --> 00:25:02.340 Yeah, it's tough. 00:25:02.340 --> 00:25:04.800 The Mellon funding was instrumental seed funding. 00:25:05.100 --> 00:25:09.120 We were very fortunate to win an NEH grant for Worlds Turned Upside 00:25:09.120 --> 00:25:14.159 Down and secure some philanthropic funding for Antisemitism USA and 00:25:14.159 --> 00:25:15.720 also another grant for that as well. 00:25:16.350 --> 00:25:20.939 But as we're recording this, in April of 2025, things have gone south with 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:25.110 the federal government in the United States and the NEH is under siege. 00:25:25.320 --> 00:25:28.950 You know, the NEH has long been a generous partner for many universities 00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:33.810 to fund projects like these, and we were already kind of thinking about how to 00:25:33.810 --> 00:25:38.790 change the revenue mix or the income mix, so to speak, through other income 00:25:38.790 --> 00:25:43.950 opportunities, other grants, other forms of revenue like ads and things like that. 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:48.150 But the recent changes has complicated those efforts. 00:25:48.390 --> 00:25:51.540 What we have to do, at least from our part, but I think also less 00:25:51.540 --> 00:25:55.980 applicable to others is, even before the recent crisis, we need to do a 00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:59.550 better job of communicating that what we are doing is not free to make. 00:25:59.580 --> 00:26:00.720 It's free to consume. 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.639 History delivered right to your ears. 00:26:02.639 --> 00:26:06.720 But that takes a lot of effort and there are very good podcasts that 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.760 people do is on the side for fun. 00:26:09.149 --> 00:26:12.420 But we want to be out there in the forefront of leading the charge for 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:16.860 really good, intellectually rigorous, yet accessible history podcasts 00:26:16.860 --> 00:26:18.945 and that takes a chunk of change. 00:26:18.975 --> 00:26:22.245 And so I think part of the strategy going forward is really to communicate 00:26:22.245 --> 00:26:27.645 more seriously with prospective donors and supporters that between $5 and 00:26:27.645 --> 00:26:32.535 $5 million is very helpful and we will take all of that in whatever 00:26:32.535 --> 00:26:34.115 currency you wish to send it to us. 00:26:34.535 --> 00:26:37.860 So kind of an NPR model almost is what you're envisioning 00:26:37.860 --> 00:26:38.700 when you're saying that? 00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:39.390 Absolutely. 00:26:39.390 --> 00:26:41.940 And helping people understand the amount of work and effort that 00:26:41.940 --> 00:26:44.070 goes into creating these series. 00:26:44.130 --> 00:26:46.560 'Cause they do take a lot of work and we enjoy doing it, 00:26:46.560 --> 00:26:48.120 but we also enjoy getting paid. 00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:48.960 Yeah. 00:26:49.770 --> 00:26:50.640 Funny you how that works. 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:52.560 Yeah. 00:26:52.560 --> 00:26:57.030 I think universities are starting to get smarter and they're realizing 00:26:57.030 --> 00:27:01.170 that these are a lot of work and either they outsource some of the 00:27:01.170 --> 00:27:05.010 production limits to people like Neil and I. And then have you guys come in. 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:10.470 Or some of them are adding the jobs on to people that already have 00:27:10.470 --> 00:27:12.290 them and either upping their pay. 00:27:12.360 --> 00:27:18.090 Or that we've seen in cases where they will hire somebody that specifically their 00:27:18.090 --> 00:27:20.100 role is the podcast like Kate at Purdue. 00:27:20.100 --> 00:27:23.625 That is her role as a podcast person for the universities. 00:27:23.625 --> 00:27:24.615 I come from broadcasting. 00:27:24.615 --> 00:27:25.335 It's similar. 00:27:25.395 --> 00:27:29.235 People don't realize the value in it and a lot of people, it's like, oh, 00:27:29.235 --> 00:27:30.975 can you not do this for us for free? 00:27:30.975 --> 00:27:36.315 It's easy and it's not easy and it's a lot of work and it's obviously pays 00:27:36.315 --> 00:27:37.995 off in so much for the university. 00:27:37.995 --> 00:27:41.055 So that being said, what are some of the success that you've seen, 00:27:41.295 --> 00:27:44.235 obviously besides getting donations, what are some of the other successes 00:27:44.235 --> 00:27:45.615 you've seen with the podcast? 00:27:45.735 --> 00:27:49.005 Well, in terms of non-financial success, I will just say, so 00:27:49.005 --> 00:27:50.115 I'm a native mid-Westerner. 00:27:50.115 --> 00:27:54.100 And our, our goal as Midwesterners is to hide and never be seen. 00:27:54.340 --> 00:27:58.780 And so it's profoundly confusing to me when people come up to me at a conference 00:27:58.870 --> 00:28:03.400 or in a public forum and as one person did at a conference in France of all 00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:05.710 places, she said, you're that podcast guy. 00:28:06.580 --> 00:28:08.110 And I was like, yes, I am. 00:28:08.590 --> 00:28:16.120 So it's, it's been very rewarding to get the approbation of our peers. 00:28:16.410 --> 00:28:19.950 Even if they don't necessarily agree with the interpretation sometimes. 00:28:19.950 --> 00:28:22.620 And that's, you know, we're in that business of, of arguing over 00:28:22.620 --> 00:28:24.150 what actually happened in the past. 00:28:24.150 --> 00:28:31.080 It's been really gratifying to hear some of their compliments, particularly from 00:28:31.080 --> 00:28:36.330 people that I respect and would tell us if we were doing something that was trash. 00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:40.260 But also from the general public, you know, just things like, I 00:28:40.260 --> 00:28:43.260 hadn't considered Jamaica as part of British America before. 00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:47.535 That's something that's, that is standard for historians of the 00:28:47.535 --> 00:28:52.065 American Revolution, but to get people to see beyond the 13 colonies and 00:28:52.065 --> 00:28:55.815 to see the 26 I think is rewarding. 00:28:55.875 --> 00:28:57.495 And the same with the other series as well. 00:28:57.495 --> 00:28:58.965 Um, Jeanette's got a number of stories. 00:28:59.265 --> 00:29:03.705 Yeah, I think the audience reaction is always, the thing that I find 00:29:03.825 --> 00:29:06.765 most rewarding is just, you know, with our series, Your Most Obedient 00:29:06.795 --> 00:29:10.035 Humble Servant, in each episode, our host Kathryn Gehred and a guest do 00:29:10.035 --> 00:29:11.805 a deep dive into one primary source. 00:29:11.805 --> 00:29:15.570 And so it's often a letter between two women in the 18th century. 00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:17.370 Frequently it's between sisters. 00:29:17.370 --> 00:29:21.240 And so it's just so fun to listen to people talk about the series 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.380 who are not historians who didn't really find history class as fun or 00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:28.860 interesting, but they enjoy the series because it's just, it's a deep dive 00:29:28.860 --> 00:29:30.900 into these personal correspondence. 00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:33.870 And they talk about important things, but then they complain about their parents 00:29:33.870 --> 00:29:35.640 or their spouses or their children. 00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:40.949 And so it's just, it's fun to hear people understand how much scholars 00:29:40.949 --> 00:29:43.050 get out of reading dead people's mail. 00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:47.310 Helping people see how historians do their work has been really rewarding. 00:29:47.310 --> 00:29:49.830 And how sometimes we get to put scholars who don't agree with each 00:29:49.830 --> 00:29:54.445 other in conversation with each other in episodes and just help people kinda 00:29:54.570 --> 00:29:58.290 understand that, yeah, we're in the business of arguing over what happened. 00:29:58.290 --> 00:30:02.220 And it's okay when we don't agree and we can still think about the complexities 00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:04.050 of the past and draw conclusions. 00:30:04.230 --> 00:30:06.899 So yeah, I think helping people kind of understand the discipline 00:30:06.899 --> 00:30:08.129 has been really rewarding. 00:30:08.564 --> 00:30:09.135 That's great. 00:30:09.314 --> 00:30:10.784 Well, thank you so much for your time. 00:30:10.784 --> 00:30:15.254 I was thinking one last question was maybe just sort of looking 00:30:15.254 --> 00:30:19.574 ahead the next couple of years, like what's up next for R2 Studios? 00:30:19.605 --> 00:30:20.595 More shows? 00:30:20.774 --> 00:30:23.054 You're gonna try new formats? 00:30:23.054 --> 00:30:25.215 What are you guys thinking as the road ahead? 00:30:25.695 --> 00:30:26.460 That's a good question. 00:30:26.550 --> 00:30:28.379 We have too many ideas, is the answer. 00:30:29.910 --> 00:30:30.000 Yes. 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.044 What isn't on the horizon at this point? 00:30:31.044 --> 00:30:31.230 That's right. 00:30:32.250 --> 00:30:34.620 So ideally, Worlds Turned Upside Down will have five seasons. 00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:35.879 We're almost done with season one. 00:30:36.120 --> 00:30:39.690 That'll take us through the end of the Revolutionary War, and we have 00:30:39.930 --> 00:30:42.120 at least one more season we hope to make with Your Most Obedient Humble 00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:45.870 Servant where I think we're gonna dive into letters that specifically 00:30:45.870 --> 00:30:50.879 look at parental relationships and children in the 18th century. 00:30:51.090 --> 00:30:54.870 We have a couple of other shows that we're excited to make and that hopefully 00:30:55.290 --> 00:30:57.060 we'll get to bring to people's ears soon. 00:30:57.900 --> 00:30:58.080 Yep. 00:30:58.170 --> 00:31:01.260 A few things on the horizon, but you know, Finding Jane Austen, we've 00:31:01.260 --> 00:31:02.640 announced and so that's out there. 00:31:02.730 --> 00:31:05.250 That'll be out later this year, starting later this year with 00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:06.180 our colleague Anne Fertig. 00:31:06.750 --> 00:31:10.170 A few things out there that you'll just have to stay tuned for. 00:31:10.830 --> 00:31:11.610 It's exciting. 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.000 Love it. 00:31:12.510 --> 00:31:12.690 Yeah. 00:31:12.690 --> 00:31:16.050 Jen and I have been doing this for a couple of years now the Continuing Studies 00:31:16.050 --> 00:31:21.420 podcast, we're coming up on our 50th episode, and it's like peeling an onion. 00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:25.980 Like the more that we dig into this world of higher education podcasting, 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:31.230 the more we find really amazing podcasts and networks like R2 Studios. 00:31:31.260 --> 00:31:33.170 It's just incredible what's out there. 00:31:33.830 --> 00:31:37.905 And how it's really, I mean, the challenge of podcasting is the discovery 00:31:37.905 --> 00:31:42.764 side, and I just think more and more if we can surface some of this amazing 00:31:42.764 --> 00:31:45.495 work that's being done in academia. 00:31:45.615 --> 00:31:48.945 And the way I've been looking at it lately is it's a way to break 00:31:48.945 --> 00:31:54.855 through the rhetoric and just to give a direct voice, if you will, for 00:31:55.185 --> 00:31:58.995 that's happening on campuses and the academia and the work and podcasting 00:31:58.995 --> 00:32:00.900 is just such a great medium for it. 00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:05.070 So congratulations on what you guys have created so far, and you got a new, 00:32:05.070 --> 00:32:06.690 you got at least one listener here. 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:11.130 But thanks for joining us today and thanks for sharing your journey and 00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:12.420 all the amazing work that you're doing. 00:32:12.420 --> 00:32:12.450 I. 00:32:12.825 --> 00:32:13.065 Yeah. 00:32:13.065 --> 00:32:13.785 Thank you guys. 00:32:13.785 --> 00:32:16.815 I love the fact that you guys are making history more accessible because you guys 00:32:16.815 --> 00:32:20.595 do all this great work, but back in the day, only so many people would read it. 00:32:20.835 --> 00:32:25.305 Now you're able to expand the stuff that we maybe would not know. 00:32:25.365 --> 00:32:28.725 Now we get to engage with it and hear things that are really intriguing 00:32:28.725 --> 00:32:31.875 that we wouldn't know about unless they were super significant that they 00:32:31.875 --> 00:32:33.525 would be brought to light on the news. 00:32:33.525 --> 00:32:34.365 So thank you guys. 00:32:34.810 --> 00:32:35.240 Thank you. 00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:35.415 Thank you. 00:32:36.945 --> 00:32:37.965 Well, that was great. 00:32:38.025 --> 00:32:41.475 What a really interesting conversation we had with Jeanette and Jim. 00:32:41.475 --> 00:32:45.885 I quite enjoyed that conversation and learning more about R2 Studios. 00:32:46.635 --> 00:32:49.875 And just so honest and candid specifically towards the end, they 00:32:49.875 --> 00:32:52.995 are putting a lot of work in it and they do need funding and I think 00:32:53.055 --> 00:32:56.565 sometimes we don't get enough attention of why these things need funding. 00:32:56.955 --> 00:33:00.945 Everyone just thinks, oh, they're like something fun or they're easy to do, but 00:33:01.095 --> 00:33:03.915 there's a lot of work that goes, so I love that they were so candid about it. 00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:08.970 Yeah, I think it's really important conversation to have right now. 00:33:09.030 --> 00:33:16.500 As Jim mentioned when we were recording, this is April of 2025 and yesterday was 00:33:16.500 --> 00:33:20.430 when we just heard that Harvard really pushed back and they're, you know, in 00:33:20.430 --> 00:33:24.840 theory they're turning their backs on $2 billion worth of research funding. 00:33:24.870 --> 00:33:30.450 It is just incredible times we're in that if you think that the funding for 00:33:30.450 --> 00:33:34.784 all this great research is going to it's just gonna go away or it's gonna be, 00:33:34.784 --> 00:33:36.435 try to be controlled in a different way. 00:33:36.524 --> 00:33:38.145 It's a really shocking time we're in. 00:33:38.145 --> 00:33:39.645 So I, I, I agree, jen. 00:33:39.645 --> 00:33:43.545 It was great that they were candid sort of about their funding and I think 00:33:43.545 --> 00:33:48.345 that's gonna be a challenge overall, but I think we're gonna start to see this 00:33:48.345 --> 00:33:50.835 in the podcasting space as well too. 00:33:50.895 --> 00:33:51.555 No, I agree. 00:33:51.555 --> 00:33:55.274 I think it's something we all have to be mindful of and it's interesting 00:33:55.274 --> 00:33:58.395 time and we're gonna have to figure out different ways to get through it. 00:33:58.485 --> 00:34:02.560 Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a podcast 00:34:02.560 --> 00:34:04.450 for higher education podcasters. 00:34:04.750 --> 00:34:07.750 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:34:08.020 --> 00:34:10.960 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.080 podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.860 But if you found this episode particularly valuable, please 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