WEBVTT

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Hey friend, listen. I know the world is scary right now. Corruption, war, inflation, demographics,

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degeneracy, disease, unrest, hatred and despair. We didn't come here to tell you how it is.

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But that it's going to get way better.

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Better. Bye Bitcoin.

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All right. Welcome everybody. We got Skylar and Jordan in the house tonight.

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What's up y'all?

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What's up guys?

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So Skylar, we wanted to bring you on because you are a designer focusing on the Bitcoin space.

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You now have a company called Finite Supply where you are focusing on Bitcoin companies.

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You're leading one of the leaders in terms of how do we think about what Bitcoin companies should look like,

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how they should feel, how they interact with the community and the larger outside world, outside of the Bitcoin space.

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So I wanted to get your update on how you've been. I saw you six months ago or so.

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And I also wanted to get your take on how Bitcoin and design are connected and what that looks like.

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So yeah, Skylar, give us your 30 seconds.

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Thanks for having me on.

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The last year, I mean, so basically I started Finite Supply a year ago.

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May 22nd, actually, Bitcoin Pizza Day is when I tweeted out, I am starting a design agency for Bitcoin companies.

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Does anyone want to work with me? And then it's been insane.

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It's been an amazing year.

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Trying to think. Lately, I have been pushing, I've been designing a lot of hats.

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So that's been like a fun creative outlet that's like more independent.

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It's definitely not like core business aspect, but it's like fun.

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So I keep making hats. And recently I've been doing a lot of work with Ocean.

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I may be working on some knots designs, which is fun.

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But it's funny too when you have multiple clients that disagree with each other.

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That's a very unique thing for Bitcoin.

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It's like, I have great clients over here, great clients over here, but they don't really get along.

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So that's kind of fun.

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So you're working for Shinobi is what you're telling us.

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I don't think I could ever do that.

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But anyways, I think it's like on the topic of Bitcoin and design.

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Does Bitcoin make design better?

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Not by itself.

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I think like Bitcoin exacerbates the or no, it elucidates.

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It like shows and clarifies who people really are and what their abilities really are.

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And it like kind of like cuts away grift.

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So because of that, like people that have a lot of Bitcoin.

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I like want to expect them to have taste as well and be like these Renaissance men like in a century ago.

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These guys that would just like design a beautiful home, build a library for their like city.

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You know, be like commissioning amazing works of art.

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Da Vinci's and Michelangelo's.

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But really it's like, I think Fiat has degraded most individuals and just like the kind of, I don't like the word education, but it's like they were classically educated in like all these different things,

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which made them like connoisseurs of beauty, goodness and truth in a way that just no one really is anymore.

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It's like so rare.

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I mean, all of our billionaires, they don't have taste.

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All the millionaires don't have taste.

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Like it's like all of these realms of wealth.

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It's like who has taste anymore?

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So the short answer is I think Bitcoin can give people extra purchasing power to build great things, design great things.

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But they have to become better in order to do those things.

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So you have to become worthy of building these better things, which requires a lot more than just Bitcoin.

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What I'm hearing you say is that we can't just sanctify all of our tastes and immediate intuitive ideas as being great art.

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That's what I'm hearing you say.

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You're saying there actually are constraints that actually constitute great art.

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And we actually have to constrain ourselves to those constraints and actually get better by some objective-ish standard.

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Because if you're going to convince people to give up their Bitcoin, it's going to have to be something that they deem worthy of and that's exercised and required lots of excellence and hard work.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I see people that hold Bitcoin as the patrons.

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But the problem is in order to commission something amazing, you have to know what amazing is.

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I'm kind of bummed to see that that doesn't really exist.

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Our billionaire classes are all just STEM tech guys.

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Some of them are legacy business owners and stuff, but they're not renaissance men.

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You look back a century, early American entrepreneurs were just dabbling in so many different things and so good at so many different things.

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Elon's an interesting example of this.

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It doesn't look like he has taste.

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It looks like he can bring people around him that have some semblance of a taste.

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It just doesn't seem like one of his things is caring about beauty.

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Another thing about the early OG Bitcoiners is it didn't select for renaissance men, it selected for a certain type of person as well.

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I don't think that group of people is necessarily conducive to bringing beauty and bringing design into the world, better design into the world.

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Cypherpunks, yeah.

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They bring privacy and they bring encryption and cool things like that, but not necessarily the most beautiful stuff.

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Jordan.

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It's interesting, right?

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We're going to hop right into the full-blown Christian stuff here.

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One of the things that makes me think of is the difference between a wartime king and a peacetime king.

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You have somebody like David, who is the greatest warrior in Israel's history, both as a child and then as a king.

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He goes through his whole career as king.

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It's bloody.

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He gets to the end of his life and he wants to be the one.

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He's been very useful.

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It's been very helpful.

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It needed to happen.

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He needed to exist.

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What he did needed to happen, but it came at a high cost.

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When he gets to the end of his life and wants to be the one to build the temple, he wants to be the one to build this beautiful thing.

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God goes, no, no, no.

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You're not going to be the guy.

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He calls his son, who hasn't killed anybody, who's very much a more peacetime person.

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This idea of there being two different generations, generational differences, is necessary.

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Hey, we needed these cypherpunks.

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Bitcoin wouldn't exist if it wasn't for them, but now we get on to a different generation and we need different things now.

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It's not that they're not necessary.

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It's just that we need more in addition to them.

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I guess a counterpoint I thought of, or not a counterpoint, but it slightly challenges that, is he did write and wrote music, poems.

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Who did?

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Oh, David.

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Okay, cool.

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Huge musician, poet.

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This is true.

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That is a huge...

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He wasn't an architect.

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Also a dancer.

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He was a big dancer.

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Dancer, musician, poet.

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I think that he was sort of a renaissance man.

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Correct.

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Philosopher king.

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He really was a more robust...

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He's more robust than just a warrior.

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That's all I would add.

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It's not like a contradiction.

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Again, he wasn't the one to build the temple, which is a drastically different thing.

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What would you say his son was?

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I love that you're fleshing this out better.

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I was just talking to somebody about this yesterday.

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From the beginning of the scriptures, one of the things that you see is this question of...

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You have this...

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God basically solves for this existential crisis of what does it mean to be human?

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God creates mankind with certain things in mind, certain callings that he calls them to,

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and he designs them for certain purposes.

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Right now, this is something where we're going...

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Just culturally, societally, we're going through this giant existential crisis of

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what does it mean to be human, what is anything, and how do we know?

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This idea...

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If you were to put these in categories, you have the three things that God...

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He says one thing about humanity in Genesis, the first three chapters of Genesis.

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He says, let us make man in our image.

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He says, boom.

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What it means to be human is to be made in the image of God.

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Then he says three things to them.

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He tells them to do three things.

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He says, be fruitful, multiply.

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He says to guard and keep the garden.

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That's the third thing.

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Subdue and exercise dominion.

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That's the three things.

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With multiplication, be fruitful, multiply, that's the idea of sonship.

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Have kids.

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If you have image bearers, that's having kids.

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Then you have subdue and exercise dominion.

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The words that are translated, subdue and exercise dominion,

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are translated and repeated all throughout the rest of the Bible

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to describe the work of the kings of Israel.

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Be a son, be a king, and then to guard and keep,

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which is what their work in the garden was supposed to be,

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that is used...

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The Hebrew words that are translated as guard and keep

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are repeated all throughout the rest of the Bible

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to describe the work of the priests, the priesthood class.

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According to the scriptures, what it means to be human

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is to be a son, to be a king, and to be a priest.

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With Solomon, you do see David do that.

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He succeeds in...

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I guess you could argue he has the priestly things

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because he does commune with God.

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He loves God, so there's that element there.

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Solomon has some of that too.

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He just doesn't have the bloody history.

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It's not so much that David was incomplete,

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it's just that David had all the good stuff,

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but then he also had this stain, this bloodiness to him

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that Solomon didn't have.

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Solomon was pretty amazing in terms of his wisdom.

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He wasn't an engineer only type of guy.

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He had a breadth of knowledge.

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I think really what I want to actionable advice,

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I would say, is we should all just cultivate

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a better approach to looking at the world

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and accurately judging what goodness, beauty and truth are.

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Every human being should just do that

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and just be better at that.

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I was thinking about this.

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I was looking at a lot of old buildings.

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One reason modernists really hate classical design

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is I think they are just totally...

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It's pastiche.

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Yeah, well, I think they feel judged by it

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because the excellence and the craft are...

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It's just like, I don't know how to do that.

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Therefore, it's bad.

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I think that's the thing.

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Or it's pretentious.

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The reason why they did this is because they were pretentious

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and I'm not pretentious and so I don't want to be like that.

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But I just think that's cope.

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It's all cope.

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Yeah, 100% cope.

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Agreed, yeah.

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Well, for me, I don't know if you saw my post on it,

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just tagging your post from yesterday, Skylar,

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but the idea of...

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A lot of that's ornamentation.

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If we're going to make a spiral staircase

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versus just a square fire exit,

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it's like, well, we're going to have to spend a lot more time and money.

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We're going to have to design it.

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We're going to have to get the right skill set to build it.

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We're going to have to source all these new materials

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and cut the materials and put it all together,

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all of that is time and money.

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In a fiat world, there's just no time and no money.

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Nobody values that.

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You can apply that to the whole ecosystem and it just says,

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no, actually, the thing that defines good design at that point

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is just square patterns that are done, that are executed well.

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An A-frame is considered a beautiful pattern for a house

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or a cabin and all that.

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And it's like, yeah, it looks pretty neat in some cases,

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but it's almost like a trick because there's no ornamentation for it.

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There's no pushing on anything that takes extraordinary skills

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to actually create.

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Well, I think on that architecture...

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So Leon Krier is one of my... I just love him.

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He's this... He's still alive,

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but he's this architect that is all about bringing classicism

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into modern-day building as much as you can.

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And he talks a lot about how there's...

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Buildings should be as diverse as the races, basically.

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Each place has a specific type of person,

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a specific type of housing, a specific type of design

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that actually makes sense.

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So it's like this more localist...

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Yeah, I guess that's right.

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Vernacular is a better way to say it.

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Vernacular design is what humans can do

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in their particular environments.

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So he's a big advocate of that,

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whereas the modernist style, the international style,

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is you apply the same spreadsheet-style building

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to everything everywhere,

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which is very similar to what the Internet is.

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It's like every website is the same

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because it's basically this commodification of UI.

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But the reason I'm bringing this up is

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I'm not very judgmental of a lot of unique building styles

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because if it jives with the place,

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then it's closer to good than a modernist take would be.

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I'm also not an ornament maximalist

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because sometimes ornament makes sense.

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Ornamentalist.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.

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So I think that's part of what taste is.

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It's knowing when to do the right thing

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in the right circumstance.

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Because the modernists were like...

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Adolf Loos, L-O-O-S,

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wrote this essay in 1910 called Ornament and Crime.

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And basically saying functional design

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should never have ornament.

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It's a very interesting read.

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It's like one of those angry Internet atheists

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that hate God.

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Like, I hate God and he doesn't exist type of things.

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Like, I hate ornamentation and it shouldn't exist.

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So he's just very angry at ornamentation.

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So that's anti-ornament.

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But there's also some people that are pro-ornament everything.

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And I think that's wrong too.

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Could you just, real quick,

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I'm just imagining if there's people listening to this

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who are like, eh, what's ornament?

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Now they could probably Google these things.

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But in a 30 second summary, what is ornamentation?

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I think, I mean, I would like to have Stephen

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describe this too.

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But I see it as decoration that doesn't serve

00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:53.000
a purely functional, utilitarian purpose.

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.000
Okay.

00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:55.000
That sounds about right.

00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:00.000
It's something, in my mind, it's something that speaks

00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.000
almost entirely to the aesthetics, the look,

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.000
the feeling you get from something.

00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:10.000
Not, it's the form versus function thing.

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.000
It's like, no, it's literally pure form.

00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:17.000
There's no, like the functionality of it is that

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.000
maybe you can take a beautiful photo, right?

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.000
Yeah, but it's not inherent to the actual building.

00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:26.000
The actual functioning of the space, yeah.

00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.000
Unless the space is meant to function as a, I don't know,

00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:32.000
a music hall or something where beautiful music

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.000
is meant to be played or something.

00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:36.000
Like, you kind of have to like push the arguments

00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.000
in weird ways for it to really work.

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.000
But yeah, essentially, yeah.

00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.000
Yeah, I mean, most people just don't like,

00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.000
I mean, it's just sad that like a lot of things

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.000
have just stripped ornament away from everything.

00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.000
And most people don't even know why.

00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.000
You know, like if you drive through a suburb

00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.000
in like a red state, it's like, you might as,

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:00.000
it's just like death.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.000
Like, you're just like looking at death.

00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:05.000
And it's like, yeah, they're like American dream homes,

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:08.000
but it's like, dude, that is a spreadsheet.

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:09.000
It's a horizontal spreadsheet

00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.000
instead of a vertical spreadsheet.

00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.000
And it's like, human beings should not live

00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:15.000
in this sort of thing.

00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.000
But I'm kind of pessimistic that like we can really,

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:20.000
escape that quickly.

00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.000
I think it will take a long time to undo the damage

00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:27.000
of like sprawl or like suburban sprawl.

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.000
But I don't know.

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.000
I mean, it's like the best you can do

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.000
is just kind of like fix your own home

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:38.000
and then learn how to do it.

00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:42.000
And then, you know, make your bed, fix your home.

00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.000
And then maybe someday we can build our own towns.

00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.000
But I think that would be like kind of a worthy goal

00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:50.000
for Bitcoiners to figure out is like,

00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.000
how do you actually make a city

00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.000
that is like beautiful and good?

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:59.000
But that, again, do people have the ability

00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:00.000
to do this anymore?

00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.000
I don't know.

00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.000
Yeah.

00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:07.000
In the present paradigm, I would say,

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.000
apart from very extreme circumstances,

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:12.000
like there's a city in Guatemala that's,

00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.000
I think it's Guatemala, somewhere.

00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:15.000
I have to look it up.

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.000
But it's 100% brand new city that was built without,

00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:20.000
like we're not doing any cars.

00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:22.000
It's like 100%.

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:23.000
Yeah, something like that.

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000
So that was made by Leon Krier.

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.000
Yeah, okay, perfect.

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.000
He designed by that.

00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:29.000
Yeah.

00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.000
There are people that know how to do it

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.000
that have had success doing it,

00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.000
that know like how to think on human scale terms,

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.000
not on international like skyscraper

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.000
and jet plane terms or even just car terms, right?

00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.000
Yeah.

00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.000
Thinking in terms of a car really kind of upsets

00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.000
a human scale environment or community or dynamic

00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.000
of how you want to interact with the world.

00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.000
Yeah.

00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:01.000
I think that, you know, for me personally,

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.000
as a Bitcoiner looking at it,

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.000
all I just see is how fiat has destroyed the world.

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.000
So for a lot of, like a lot of the pessimism for me

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.000
just comes from, oh, that's like as I described,

00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.000
like, well, it's not that ornamentation

00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.000
should always be used.

00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:16.000
Yeah.

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.000
I totally agree with you.

00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.000
It's like you have to use it in the right spot

00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:20.000
for the right reason, right?

00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:22.000
Yeah.

00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:28.000
Yeah.

00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:29.000
Did he freeze?

00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:34.000
Oh, yes, he did.

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.000
So Skylar, so I mean with some of these things,

00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.000
what have been some of the other people who have,

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.000
people or just movements that have affected

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.000
your design thought if there's people

00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:50.000
who want to kind of chase them down?

00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:55.000
I mean, the, it just kind of depends.

00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.000
I think there's like, there's stuff to glean

00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:02.000
from every period of design.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:06.000
But, I mean, lately I've just really loved,

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.000
it's also just fun to look at like,

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.000
I mean, typography is not that old.

00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:14.000
In like, I mean, so I don't know.

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.000
It's kind of funny because like you look back

00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.000
in the 1800s and there was a sans serif

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.000
created in the 1800s.

00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.000
It's like, looks like Helvetica,

00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.000
like the most standard font.

00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.000
Really?

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:27.000
I forget the name of it.

00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:29.000
I don't know if it's accidents grotesque

00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:30.000
or if there's one before that.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.000
I'm pretty sure there's one before that,

00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.000
but it looks like just the most modern thing ever.

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.000
But like, you wouldn't think modernity

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:39.000
is like 1800, late 1800s.

00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.000
But anyways, I just like love looking at fonts

00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:46.000
and like you can basically take a lot

00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.000
of inspiration just from that period.

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.000
So like, there's all these different things.

00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.000
Like for Pierre Richard's company,

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.000
the Bitcoin Bond Company, we were looking at,

00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:01.000
initially we were looking at like Rothschild,

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.000
Medici, all those like families and like wealth,

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.000
like sovereign wealth families.

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:11.000
And then eventually we realized like,

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:13.000
that's actually the wrong vibe.

00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.000
That vibe is like too different from America.

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.000
It's like the American thing.

00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.000
So then we were like, I was like,

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:21.000
we got to look at Ben Franklin

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:25.000
because Ben Franklin was like super responsible

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:28.000
for the American printing aesthetic.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.000
Oh, cool.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:33.000
Like he brought typefaces over from England

00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.000
and would like print.

00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.000
And he's like, I have my favorite font, it's Caslon.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.000
And Caslon is like what everything should be typed in.

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.000
And so look into like Caslon,

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.000
like all the early documents were like,

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.000
you just, they would use Caslon.

00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:51.000
So we're like, okay, we got to use Caslon

00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:53.000
for the Bitcoin Bond Company.

00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.000
I mean, it's just like a standard stuff,

00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:58.000
you know, like you've seen it before.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:04.000
So anyways, like I don't really have these ones that like,

00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.000
it's kind of similar to the Leon career perspective.

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.000
It's just like, you just have to know when to use

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.000
which inspiration correctly.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.000
So it's like when I was young in high school,

00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:21.000
I was obsessed with this documentary called Helvetica.

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.000
And which is a, it's pretty funny,

00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:26.000
fun documentary to watch if you're into design.

00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:29.000
But like, basically it's about like Helvetica maximalism.

00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.000
And it was like, everything should be in Helvetica.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:35.000
It's like a very modernist thing.

00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:41.000
So that was like my intro to like being a designer

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.000
is like Helvetica.

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:47.000
And then you learn and you grow up and you're like,

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.000
oh, actually you should use different things

00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:51.000
in different ways for different purposes all the time.

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:57.000
So yeah, I grew out of the modernist maximalism

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.000
and into like just trying to do the right thing

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.000
at the right time.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.000
This conversation is so crazy, man.

00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:09.000
Because like, I've been just submerging my head

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.000
in this whole opporturn debate.

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.000
Oh gosh.

00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:16.000
And dude, it has just been a trip.

00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.000
Because there's so many things that are not intuitive

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.000
that like the grounding assumptions

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.000
that a lot of these arguments are being based on,

00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:27.000
both for and against.

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.000
And like, it is just so interesting

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.000
because so much of the anti-opporturn

00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.000
or like getting rid of the filters, that kind of stuff,

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:42.000
it is based on this idea that any filtration is arbitrary.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:44.000
And so like, you can follow this,

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.000
you can extrapolate this more and go like,

00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.000
all right, well then like, again, beauty is just,

00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.000
beauty and actual goodness and design aesthetic

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.000
is just totally arbitrary.

00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.000
There's nothing actually inherently,

00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:03.000
or there's no actual truthful goodness at the core of this.

00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.000
And it's just so fascinating.

00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:11.000
Like how, again, we can't just neatly parse out these things.

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.000
Like they really do.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.000
Like we're getting at something real and deep

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:17.000
and profound and ancient.

00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:20.000
But we don't have, like this is like,

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.000
this is how I just keep thinking as I listen to them.

00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:24.000
Like you don't have the muscle memory.

00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.000
Like this is so far outside of your depth.

00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.000
Like you guys are, like it's,

00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:31.000
engineer muscles are very different

00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.000
than philosopher muscles.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:36.000
And especially moral philosophy.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.000
Like the arguments you're making are not good arguments.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:44.000
But you are experts in this engineering thinking,

00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:46.000
which is super necessary, it's super good.

00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.000
But the temptation is for you to despise and diminish

00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:55.000
and just like, reasoning and evidence

00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:58.000
that's got a different evidentiary standard

00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:02.000
than engineering evidentiary standards.

00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.000
And so it's just so fascinating.

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000
And this is why I'm getting ready to do this piece on this,

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.000
or like do a video about this.

00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.000
But like, one of the things that was really interesting

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.000
is they keep saying, oh, you know,

00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.000
like the mechanic and all these guys are just,

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.000
you guys are making an ideological argument

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.000
and we're just making a technical argument.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.000
And the problem is like,

00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:23.000
how do you define what is a technical argument?

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.000
In order to define a technical argument,

00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.000
you have to go outside of technical arguments

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.000
to make that argument.

00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:34.000
Like you need ideological boundings in order to do this.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.000
But they can't, they don't recognize it.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.000
And so again, I'm sympathetic to that,

00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.000
because again, it's like we have strengths that they need

00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.000
and the core devs and all these guys,

00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:44.000
they have strengths that we need.

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.000
And so we can't despise and just mock each other.

00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.000
But it really is this super interesting thing

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000
that you start to see, you know,

00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.000
flesh itself out in all kinds of surprising places.

00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.000
So there's, you know, to that point directly,

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.000
there's an incredible C.S. Lewis quote,

00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.000
which I'm sure you guys are very familiar with.

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.000
Let me just read it for you.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:05.000
Of course, let's go.

00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:07.000
You cannot go seeing through things forever.

00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:09.000
The whole point of seeing through something

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:11.000
is to see something through it.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:13.000
It is good that the window should be transparent

00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:16.000
because the street or garden beyond is opaque.

00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:20.000
How, if you saw through the garden too.

00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.000
It is no use trying to see through first principles.

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.000
If you see through everything,

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.000
then everything is transparent.

00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.000
But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world.

00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:35.000
To see through all things is the same as to not see.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.000
Yeah.

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.000
Yeah.

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Yeah.

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.000
When you talk about the ideological stuff

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:47.000
and like, oh, this small ideological framework

00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:49.000
versus this other ideological framework,

00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.000
it's like they're applying the ideology to something else.

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:55.000
And, you know, getting back to design,

00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:56.000
we do the exact same thing.

00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.000
This is where pastiche comes in.

00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:00.000
Well, no, we hate all the classic stuff.

00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.000
We hate reintroducing ornamentation.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.000
We hate reintroducing all this stuff.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.000
We hate looking at the world through other lenses

00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.000
because our lens is, for some reason,

00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:12.000
which we can't explain or defend,

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.000
is better than your lens.

00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.000
Like, we just see through your lens.

00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:19.000
We just see through, like, no, no, no,

00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.000
you're wrong about this stuff.

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000
And it's just, it's not, it's like,

00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:24.000
sure, here's it.

00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.000
Like, there's no humanitarian kind of understanding

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:30.000
wider, larger meta picture.

00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.000
Yeah.

00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:32.000
I mean, I will,

00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:36.000
I would say that that mentality is pretty modernist,

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.000
which I think is dead.

00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.000
Like, I think modernity is dead.

00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.000
Like, so, it's funny that these tech,

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:45.000
the, we're the technical guys.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.000
It reminds me of the early internet atheist

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.000
Four Horsemen guys, and it's like,

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.000
we have science, blah, blah, blah.

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:55.000
It's like, they're totally retarded on everything else,

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.000
but they, like, know some, like, science,

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.000
which is, like, not reproducible.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.000
It's, like, totally fake anyways.

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:03.000
But they think it's real.

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.000
But it's, like, the,

00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.000
they're, like, the dying modernists, right?

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.000
Where it's, like, we believe in this objective truth,

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:12.000
blah, blah, blah.

00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.000
Like, yeah, we don't believe in God.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:15.000
We just believe in this technical analysis.

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:19.000
It's, like, I feel like we are shifting,

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.000
or we have shifted fully into, like, post-modernity

00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.000
for better and worse.

00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.000
Like, it's good to destroy modernity

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.000
because modernity is rotten,

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.000
and it's, like, built on a fake God,

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.000
of, like, fake reason, fake truth, fake,

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:39.000
or rather a godless truth, a godless reason,

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.000
and a godless, you know, order.

00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.000
But, so I think, like, the,

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.000
going back to the point about seeing,

00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:49.000
they don't, people don't like seeing

00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:52.000
through the nostalgia or seeing through, like,

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.000
the old ways of doing things.

00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.000
I actually think post-modernity allows us

00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:00.000
to do that sort of, like, thing

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.000
because now it's, like, this chaotic,

00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:04.000
there is no order.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.000
We kind of create the order,

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.000
and so now it's, like,

00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:09.000
we can kind of just do whatever we want,

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.000
which means that we now have the opportunity

00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:12.000
to do whatever we want,

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:15.000
which means let's bring nostalgia back.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:17.000
Like, let's do that, you know?

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:18.000
I'm happy about that.

00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.000
Yeah.

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.000
Well, yeah, like, the totally free market

00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.000
is gonna, it's both gonna be catastrophic

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.000
because you're gonna be seeing people,

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.000
like, it's a, yeah,

00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.000
it's an absolutely free ideological market,

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:31.000
so if you want to say you're a cat,

00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:32.000
like, you're good.

00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:33.000
If you want to say, like,

00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.000
you could just go to the craziest extreme,

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:38.000
but it's gonna be, like, self-selecting

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:41.000
where, like, it's gonna be so stark,

00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.000
the difference between people who are, like,

00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:45.000
I mean, like, honestly,

00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:46.000
I mean, all three of us have kids.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.000
Like, I think this is one of those things

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.000
where it's so ironic

00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.000
is that people are self-selecting,

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.000
like, by either not, again, it's like,

00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:57.000
by not breeding or by breeding.

00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.000
Obviously, we don't,

00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:59.000
we would never call it breeding,

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:00.000
I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek,

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.000
but, like, by not having,

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.000
Well, you breed.

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:04.000
You breed.

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.000
So, but, like, it's one of these things

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:09.000
where, like, if you're not,

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.000
if you're not having kids,

00:33:11.000 --> 00:33:12.000
like, for whatever reason,

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.000
whatever, however you were gonna justify it,

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.000
like, you're cutting off the influence

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:20.000
that you could have on the future generation,

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.000
and it's because you're saying,

00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:22.000
all right, I'm gonna do,

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:23.000
no, I'm gonna have,

00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:24.000
I'm gonna create this impact

00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:26.000
in a different way or whatever,

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.000
but it's just, again,

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.000
and it's kind of one of those things

00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:30.000
where you're like,

00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.000
don't interrupt your enemy

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:32.000
while he's making a mistake type of things

00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:33.000
where it's like, all right,

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.000
you know, bold strategy, Cotton.

00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.000
Let's see if it pays off for him, you know?

00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:40.000
Well, I have a,

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.000
maybe a contrarian thought on that.

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.000
Do it.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:47.000
The people that don't have kids,

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:50.000
I actually think they're more influential

00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:51.000
over the people that do have kids

00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.000
because they're a little bit unhinged.

00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.000
And they have this much more time.

00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.000
Yeah, that much, yeah,

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.000
to say the least.

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:02.000
I mean, they're like,

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:05.000
they kind of have this understanding of the world

00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:06.000
that, like,

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.000
they are actually the mother of the world,

00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:12.000
and they enforce, like, this longhouse.

00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.000
They kind of, like,

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.000
want to control everyone,

00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.000
and so if they can't, like,

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:19.000
really have their own family to control,

00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:22.000
so I think that might be shifting.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.000
The power might be shifting a bit,

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.000
but that is something I am bullish on,

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:27.000
Bitcoin,

00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:31.000
empowering families that want to say no

00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:32.000
to those people,

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.000
like no to their schools,

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000
no to their families,

00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.000
no to their parents.

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.000
Oh, man.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.000
Yeah, there you go.

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:51.000
Yeah, you disappeared into the board

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:53.000
for about 15 seconds.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.000
So anyways, I think, like,

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.000
I love Bitcoin because it gives us power

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:06.000
to exit that matrix,

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.000
or I don't like that term necessarily,

00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:09.000
but, like,

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.000
it gives us freedom to actually build

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.000
our own sort of world.

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.000
I don't really like separating,

00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:18.000
but, like, at the same time,

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.000
there kind of has to be some divorce.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.000
Yeah.

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.000
I don't know.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.000
What do you guys think about that?

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:25.000
Like, in, not of,

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.000
but, like,

00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.000
how do we actually build something

00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:29.000
without it getting destroyed?

00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:30.000
Like, what's the most,

00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.000
what's the best way to steward civilization,

00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:35.000
I guess?

00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:36.000
Go ahead.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.000
Well, I just want to say,

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.000
preface both of our talks,

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:43.000
both Jordan and I have talked about this before,

00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.000
and I think we have different views on it,

00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:48.000
but I think they're compatible

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.000
in interesting ways.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:53.000
So, yeah, Jordan, go.

00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.000
Oh, well, here, you answer first,

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:56.000
and then I'll,

00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:57.000
you know what they say,

00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:58.000
age before beauty.

00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:59.000
Go for it.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:00.000
Just kidding, no.

00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.000
Okay.

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:06.000
So my answer is that

00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.000
we're basically in,

00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:11.000
you know, going back to the whole

00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:13.000
Bitcoin makes everything better, right?

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.000
We have been living in a world

00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.000
that has been controlled by fiat,

00:36:17.000 --> 00:36:19.000
and a world that's controlled by fiat

00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:21.000
means fiat, the currency,

00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.000
affects everyone in the world's incentives.

00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.000
You cannot move to anywhere on Earth

00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:28.000
and escape those incentives,

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:29.000
no matter what.

00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.000
You, like,

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.000
oh, man, I just can't stand it here,

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.000
you know,

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.000
so I'm going to move to somewhere else,

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.000
but the place that you move to

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.000
is still affected by fiat.

00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.000
They might be, like, a little behind,

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.000
so they seem more, say, conservative

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.000
or more family-focused,

00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:46.000
but they're pointing in the same direction,

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:48.000
so it doesn't matter where you live.

00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.000
We are all under a fiat regime,

00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:52.000
and the consequences of that mean,

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.000
well, there's no running.

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.000
The only move you can make,

00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.000
the only strategic thing you can do

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.000
is either, like, do the citadel commune,

00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.000
like, we're going to completely exit

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.000
and literally use Bitcoin

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.000
and not accept outside money,

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:12.000
which is extremely hard to do.

00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.000
I don't know if there's actually anybody

00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:16.000
who's able to even fundamentally do that,

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.000
like, for real do that.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Like, El Salvador kind of tried,

00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:21.000
but that's not the case.

00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.000
This is not even close.

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.000
The other alternative is to just

00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:27.000
plant a flag where you are

00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.000
and be like, no, I refuse to,

00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.000
you know, for me, my family,

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.000
we are on a Bitcoin standard.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.000
We are going to fight this where we are.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.000
We're going to integrate however we can.

00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.000
We're going to build a community.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:41.000
We're going to educate people.

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.000
We're going to, you know,

00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:46.000
move forward in that front.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.000
That totally, that all of a sudden,

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.000
this is no longer a question of like,

00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.000
well, what's the right thing to do?

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:53.000
It's like, no, no, no.

00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:55.000
You're fighting a war now.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:58.000
We are, I'm fighting a war

00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.000
against an enemy that is attacking me,

00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.000
and it's, if I choose to be offensive,

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:06.000
I might make some headway.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.000
If I plant a flag and, you know,

00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:10.000
make an offensive stance.

00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:11.000
If I choose to be defensive

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.000
and retreat and retreat,

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.000
I will never be able to get that ground back

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:17.000
until I turn around.

00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:19.000
Now, that's kind of like my perspective on it.

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:21.000
Jordan, you have a different

00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:23.000
and interesting perspective on that.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:25.000
Yeah, so what you're talking about is like,

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:28.000
there's generally three perspectives on this, right?

00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.000
You have the run, you have the fight,

00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:33.000
or you have like a regroup,

00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.000
which is kind of like a, you know,

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.000
middle ground of the thing.

00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.000
And so, again, now, this is where I will, you know,

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.000
I will win the argument

00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.000
because I can point to Jesus running, you know?

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:45.000
There's times where there's like Jesus,

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.000
the guys are trying to throw him off the cliff,

00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:49.000
and Jesus like escapes through the crowd, you know?

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:50.000
And again, now, why?

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.000
It was always a strategic running away

00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:54.000
because Jesus is like, no,

00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.000
I'm not going to die getting chucked off a cliff.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:57.000
I'm going to die on a cross.

00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.000
And so, like, there's, this is where, yeah,

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:02.000
it's like, there's, whatever you're doing,

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:05.000
it can't just be motivated by self-preservation.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.000
Like, that's clearly not a sufficient motive.

00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.000
And this is actually, to return to the opportune thing,

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:17.000
it's like, you can't use like self-convenience

00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:19.000
or like, I want to do this thing,

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:20.000
and so I'm going to do it.

00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.000
Like, that is, it's a deficient motivation

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:25.000
no matter where you find it.

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.000
Now, self-preservation and self-interested action

00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.000
are two different things.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:31.000
They seem similar, but they're,

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.000
and they are similar in some way,

00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:35.000
but they're not the same thing.

00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:38.000
And so, like, so obviously, everyone has self-interest.

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.000
Like, it's, that's, obviously,

00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:43.000
that's just an obvious fact of living.

00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:47.000
Like, actions affect you, but it's not,

00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:48.000
that's different than saying,

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.000
I'm going to protect myself at any cost.

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:53.000
That is deficient.

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:57.000
And so, whether you're running temporarily,

00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.000
whether you're staying and fighting,

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.000
and whether you're, or whether you're regrouping,

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:05.000
like, it still always needs to be a tactical thing.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:06.000
There needs to be,

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.000
like, there needs to be motivation behind it.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:11.000
Now, the reason and the, how I would parse out.

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:14.000
It has to have taste, going back to a.

00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:15.000
Correct.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.000
Yeah, it has to have principle.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.000
It has to be a principled action,

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:21.000
which starts, which, again, is a pre,

00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:25.000
it's a spiritual action in a real sense.

00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:28.000
It's a pre-actualized action.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.000
Like, this is something you're conceptualizing.

00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:32.000
You're trying to figure out in your head

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.000
what is right to do.

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.000
And then, based on that,

00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:37.000
then you go and carry it out in your body,

00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:38.000
in the world.

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:40.000
So, the thing that I would,

00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.000
the dynamics that I would want to add,

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.000
that I would be quick to add,

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:46.000
quick to say, are not bulletproof.

00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:48.000
It's not, like, this is what,

00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.000
if you have kids, you do this.

00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:50.000
If you don't, you do this.

00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:53.000
But I do think having kids plays a role here.

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:54.000
Yeah.

00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:56.000
Like, there's, like, if you have,

00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.000
if you have 14-year-old kids,

00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.000
then your life and decisions ought to look different

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.000
than they do if you are a single person.

00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.000
Yeah.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.000
Like, because there's going to be factors

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.000
and just particular challenges,

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.000
temptations, threats

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:16.000
that you're going to have to be sympathetic to

00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.000
or just, like, take into account

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.000
that maybe other people won't.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.000
And so, again, this is why I'm not saying

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:27.000
that Bondor should flee, you know, California.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.000
Like, this is, I don't think that that's the case.

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:31.000
And I think there is, again,

00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.000
there are situations for people who should stay there

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.000
and they should, you know, be faithful witnesses

00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:36.000
and they should do all these things.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.000
At the same time, like, I look around at,

00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.000
you know, in my case, I look at my kids.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.000
And I look at my kids who, now, again,

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:45.000
we have family factors that complicate

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:48.000
or that add more color to our decision-making.

00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:50.000
But, like, it's one of these things where, hey,

00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.000
I have a limited amount of time with my kids

00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.000
to train them up.

00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.000
And so I want to take seriously that time.

00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.000
And so, you know, there,

00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:01.000
I have a buddy whose name is Andrew

00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:03.000
who just moved from,

00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:05.000
he was, his family lived in a place,

00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.000
in a state for five generations.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:10.000
And finally, the state passed a law

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.000
that basically said that

00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:17.000
if parents denied their kids' gender identity,

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:20.000
they could be taken away by CPS and stuff.

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.000
And he's got a kid with autism, severe autism.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.000
And, like, people at school,

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.000
at the kid's school could confuse him.

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.000
He says something about being a girl.

00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.000
You know, he basically comes out,

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.000
his parents don't allow this.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:35.000
Well, then they could take him away.

00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.000
So he leaves his generational home,

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:39.000
his family's generational home for five generations.

00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:40.000
He leaves, moves to a state

00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:42.000
where there's more protections.

00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.000
And he has a lot of people coming at him.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.000
He's had a lot of people coming at him

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:48.000
like, you're such a coward, blah, blah, blah.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.000
Like, you ran away.

00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:51.000
You should have stayed and fought.

00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:53.000
And he just, his basic thing was,

00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:56.000
listen, like, I'm not just thinking about myself.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.000
Like, you can't just think about yourself

00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:00.000
when you have kids.

00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.000
Jesus was a single man.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.000
Paul was a single man.

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.000
They were willing to lay down rights

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:09.000
that God gave humans

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.000
and intended humans to have and to exercise

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.000
under normal circumstances

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.000
that neither one of them exercised

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:17.000
because there were other things going on.

00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:19.000
And so I think this is just the thing

00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:20.000
that I would want to point out

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.000
is there's more,

00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.000
there's a number of more factors

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:27.000
to figure out how to steward

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.000
when you have other people in your life.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.000
Yeah.

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.000
Yeah.

00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:36.000
Don't really disagree with any of that.

00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.000
That all sounds good, too.

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:39.000
Yeah.

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.000
I mean, I think, too,

00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:46.000
like, having the right telos or telos

00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.000
of goal or aim is, like,

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.000
I think, part of taste, right?

00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.000
It's, like, knowing where we should go

00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.000
and what we should do

00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.000
or what is the most important thing

00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:05.000
kind of, like, to love or to chase.

00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.000
So having the right goal there

00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.000
because, like, a single person

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.000
might be called to that

00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.000
and that might be the thing they need to do, you know?

00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:16.000
Yeah.

00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:18.000
But making sure that it's, like, rightly ordered

00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:19.000
is important, too,

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.000
because it could just be them saying,

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.000
oh, I just want convenience,

00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:24.000
so I'm going to be single.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:25.000
It's like...

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:26.000
Yep.

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:29.000
I doubt most people really...

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.000
I think most people that are, like,

00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:33.000
involuntarily single

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:34.000
would not feel that way, but, you know.

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.000
Yeah.

00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.000
Anyways, I think

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.000
trying to tie it all back together is, like,

00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:45.000
I think Bitcoin gives us...

00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.000
Bitcoin is one of the only things

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:51.000
that can give us margin in our lives

00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.000
to actually have, like, a leisure time

00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:59.000
that allows us space to develop taste

00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:04.000
and to actually contemplate the world

00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:06.000
in a way that's, like,

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.000
different than what the rat race world,

00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.000
the fiat world, like, provides for you.

00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:17.000
So I really love that Bitcoin gives humans space,

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.000
gives them more time,

00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.000
more freedom to actually, like,

00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:27.000
pursue the things that they should pursue.

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.000
So that's where I have hope,

00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:31.000
is that on a new Bitcoin standard,

00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:35.000
you can buy yourself time

00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.000
to actually do things

00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:41.000
that you feel like you should do.

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:42.000
Yep, yep.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:43.000
Buy yourself time to be able to, like,

00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.000
make choices that actually impact the world

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:49.000
and make the world closer to the truth,

00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:50.000
more beautiful.

00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.000
Like, allow...

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:54.000
It gives you the opportunity to do good in the world

00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.000
as opposed to fiat,

00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:57.000
which is constantly robbing your agency

00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:59.000
and prevents you from...

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.000
or really seriously constrains you

00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.000
from pursuing those things.

00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:04.000
Mm-hmm.

00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.000
Mm-hmm.

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:08.000
So I guess...

00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:14.000
Is it impossible on the fiat standard to do that?

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.000
No.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.000
No.

00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:20.000
But it's much harder?

00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.000
Jordan, you're up.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.000
Yeah, no, I mean,

00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:24.000
it's definitely not impossible.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.000
It's just the...

00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:28.000
For the average person,

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:29.000
it's a lot harder, right?

00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:33.000
Because, like, there's so many more...

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:36.000
Yeah, it's like you're so interconnected.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.000
Like, there's so much money

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.000
and so much structure

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:43.000
that you're just having to think about

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:46.000
that wasn't necessarily there.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:47.000
I mean, like, one of the examples of this

00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:48.000
I think about all the time, right?

00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:50.000
And this is, like, somewhat tangential,

00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.000
but, like, I read the book of Acts, right,

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:54.000
where you have Ananias and Sapphira?

00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.000
Yeah.

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:56.000
Right?

00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:58.000
Like, have you guys ever thought about

00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:59.000
what that passage would look like

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:00.000
if that happened in your church, right?

00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.000
Like, you have this couple comes in...

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:03.000
It's horrible, dude.

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:06.000
Dude, they offer to, like, give your church...

00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.000
Hey, we're going to give the church $100,000

00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:10.000
or $200,000.

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.000
And they just sold this building for $400,000.

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:13.000
They're like, listen,

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.000
we're going to give you the whole thing.

00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.000
We're going to give you $200,000.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:19.000
Somebody goes and checks the MLS numbers,

00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:21.000
and they're like, actually, they sold this for $400,000.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:22.000
They come in there,

00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:23.000
and your pastor goes,

00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.000
hey, guys, did you actually...

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:27.000
You sold this for $200,000.

00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:28.000
Wow, that's incredible.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:29.000
They're like, yeah.

00:47:29.000 --> 00:47:31.000
Again, it was not as much as we were thinking,

00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:32.000
but here it is.

00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:33.000
We're grateful for it.

00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:34.000
And then, you know, the pastor goes,

00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:36.000
hey, you just lied.

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.000
And then they just dropped dead.

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.000
And then the wife comes in,

00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.000
and similar thing.

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:42.000
Boom.

00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:43.000
And then she drops dead.

00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:45.000
Like, imagine trying to...

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:47.000
Their family calls the cops.

00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:48.000
They just went there,

00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:50.000
and supposedly they dropped dead.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:51.000
Like, what do you mean supposedly?

00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.000
They killed them.

00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:53.000
It's obvious that, you know,

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:54.000
the pastor over there,

00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:56.000
that guy Skyler who makes Bitcoin hats,

00:47:56.000 --> 00:47:58.000
like, he straight up killed them

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:00.000
because they wanted their money.

00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:01.000
Like, they wanted their money.

00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:02.000
It's obvious.

00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:03.000
Like, it's so obvious.

00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.000
That's what the incentive structure dictates.

00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.000
I don't care what they said.

00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:08.000
They're making up this crazy story.

00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:09.000
Oh, God killed them.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.000
Like, there's so many of these things

00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:14.000
where, like, their existence was so,

00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:19.000
like, so much less connected than ours is

00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:22.000
that in so much of that connection

00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.000
is funded and enabled by fiat currency

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:26.000
by, you know, governments

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.000
that have effectively unlimited resources.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.000
You know, many places around the world,

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.000
governments in the poorer places,

00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.000
the governments that you can still get away with a lot

00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:35.000
in a good way

00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:38.000
because the governments don't have the resources.

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.000
They don't have unlimited resources.

00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:43.000
And so I just think that this is...

00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.000
Like, that's one of the things that I, again,

00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.000
and I could be wrong about this,

00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.000
but just, like, thinking about,

00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:50.000
like, Bitcoin, it's scarce money

00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:54.000
that forces choices to be made.

00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.000
And, again, this could be gamed.

00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:58.000
This could be abused.

00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:00.000
And this is where, like, people just need to kind of stand up

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:05.000
and actually fight on a non-technical ground

00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:08.000
to kind of stand up against a government's desire

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:13.000
to reinstitute the same kind of fiat games

00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:14.000
on a Bitcoin standard.

00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:16.000
Like, this is...

00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:17.000
Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:19.000
Because, again, like, you could still do, like,

00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.000
a Bitcoin-backed, you know, fiat currency

00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.000
or a Bitcoin-backed national currency,

00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:25.000
theoretically, at least,

00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.000
that would still provide, it would restore,

00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.000
it would get rid of the debt problem,

00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.000
which is the political problem

00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.000
that a lot of these guys are dealing with,

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:35.000
but it would still restore to them

00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:38.000
the unlimited money glitch thing.

00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:41.000
So, again, I don't know that it's actually possible.

00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:42.000
I don't know.

00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:46.000
Like, I'm not that, you know, happily optimistic

00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:48.000
that things are going to be perfect on a Bitcoin standard.

00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.000
But, again, I think on a long enough time horizon,

00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:54.000
it certainly is a better situation

00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.000
than the one that we're in,

00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.000
or at least buys us time.

00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:01.000
I mean, getting back to your question, Skylar,

00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:04.000
about can it actually affect the average person,

00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:06.000
I think it's an obvious yes.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:09.000
And the obvious yes comes from, you know,

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:13.000
if your income is in Bitcoin,

00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:14.000
then...

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.000
And you can just do this today.

00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:17.000
I mean, it's not easy,

00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:19.000
but you can literally, like,

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:21.000
renegotiate your employment contract.

00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:23.000
Say, take a 10% pay cut,

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:24.000
but just have a flat rate

00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:26.000
of now you're just paid in Bitcoin.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.000
And the consequences of that action

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.000
mean you never suffer inflation again,

00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.000
which means that that point going forward,

00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:35.000
you know, maybe it takes a couple months

00:50:35.000 --> 00:50:37.000
or a couple years to actually, like,

00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.000
really make a difference for you.

00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:41.000
But from that point going forward,

00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:43.000
you're not suffering from inflation anymore.

00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:45.000
That means that all of your costs,

00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:48.000
like, whenever the grocery store costs go up,

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.000
well, Bitcoin follows them to global M2.

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:53.000
So, you know, maybe it doesn't hit milk exactly,

00:50:53.000 --> 00:50:55.000
but it's going to hit the eggs.

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:57.000
Or maybe it doesn't hit, you know,

00:50:57.000 --> 00:50:58.000
the oranges exactly

00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.000
because they go from Chile or whatever.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.000
But, you know, it's going to hit the beef,

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:04.000
which came from Argentina, right?

00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:05.000
Yeah.

00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:07.000
In total, in aggregate,

00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.000
over a long time frame,

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.000
you're just not suffering from inflation anymore.

00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:13.000
You're not suffering from inflation anymore.

00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:14.000
You don't have the inflationary pressure.

00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:16.000
You have, as you're talking about,

00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:18.000
more time to think about this stuff.

00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:19.000
Now, Jordan's point,

00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:21.000
maybe governments figure out a way to, you know,

00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.000
manipulate the system and all this other stuff.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:25.000
You know, if they can,

00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:27.000
I feel like somebody would have done that already,

00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:28.000
not a government,

00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:31.000
just like a corporation or somebody, right?

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:35.000
And I just, I mean, hopefully they can't.

00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:37.000
I don't think they can.

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.000
Well, again, it wouldn't happen now.

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:40.000
That's the thing, right?

00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:42.000
Like, the fiat doesn't get debased until,

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:44.000
or sorry, gold doesn't get debased

00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:47.000
until it dominates the whole system, right?

00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:50.000
Like it's, there's a timeliness to this,

00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:51.000
and this is how it always happens, right?

00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:53.000
Like the, you get the,

00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:55.000
gold is the dominant thing in the system.

00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.000
And then you, it becomes,

00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.000
so it's super beneficial,

00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:01.000
but then over time it becomes inconvenient.

00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:03.000
And so then you debase it

00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:06.000
to get some of that convenience back.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:09.000
And so the convenience cycle, you know,

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:10.000
it springs through.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:11.000
Sure, but is like,

00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:13.000
what's the convenience cycle on Bitcoin?

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:14.000
How are you going to have something

00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:17.000
that's more convenient than Lightning, for instance?

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:19.000
Like, we're talking about millisecond transactions.

00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:20.000
Well, here's how.

00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:21.000
More convenient.

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:22.000
Well, no, here's how.

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:23.000
This is exactly how.

00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:26.000
The first time that somebody takes somebody's Bitcoin

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:28.000
and they, like, they grab their wallet

00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:29.000
when they're going to send something

00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:31.000
and they, like, grab the phone out of their hand

00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.000
and they transfer all that Bitcoin

00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.000
to another, a wallet that they control

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:38.000
while some of their friends are holding the people.

00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:39.000
And then you have somebody who basically says,

00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:42.000
my entire life savings got stolen because of Bitcoin.

00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:43.000
And then the government just goes,

00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:47.000
hey, here's government Bitcoin or whatever.

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:48.000
Like, where you're just like,

00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000
here, we can provide a security thing

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.000
where we can give you your money back.

00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.000
Again, obviously it's an awful take.

00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.000
I'm not saying that this is, like,

00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.000
but it provides a short-term benefit.

00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:01.000
It provides a short-term, like,

00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:07.000
if you're somebody who's been bred by the system

00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.000
to think five minutes ahead of time

00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:14.000
and not, you know, months, years, generations, whatever,

00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:20.000
like, that short-term, immediate benefit

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:22.000
is going to be, and detriment,

00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:25.000
by contrast with the Bitcoin, losing the Bitcoin,

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:27.000
like, it's going to, there's going to be a lot of people

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.000
who are just willing to, like, hop back on the government,

00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:32.000
you know, issued cocaine

00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:34.000
if it's going to mean that they can at least

00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:36.000
superficially get their money back.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:39.000
Like, I think that's a big carrot for a lot of people.

00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:45.000
I mean, ultimately, there's a window for that, though, right?

00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:50.000
Because as Bitcoin affects the large-scale demographics

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:52.000
and everything else,

00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:54.000
we start to see all the high-time preference stuff

00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.000
really start to come out generation after generation.

00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:00.000
So, yeah, that's probably going to happen at some point.

00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:02.000
But, you know, every generation,

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.000
we're on generation, whatever it is,

00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.000
I have now a fiat currency,

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.000
and every generation going forward,

00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.000
it's like, we've been pushing this direction,

00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:14.000
we're not pushing the other direction.

00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:16.000
And it's not even distributed and all that other stuff,

00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:20.000
but we're now, people are, in real time,

00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:23.000
the time preferences are elongating.

00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:25.000
And the internet helps with this, AI helps with this,

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:27.000
Bitcoin helps with this.

00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:29.000
We're all, the time preferences are getting longer and longer.

00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:31.000
We're able to see, like, oh, yeah,

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.000
I can just really easily search.

00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:35.000
Last time somebody got elected,

00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:37.000
what their policy was and how they failed

00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:40.000
and how this person is getting elected for the same reason

00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.000
and how we know it's going to fail again.

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.000
And so we're not putting hope into that anymore.

00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:46.000
We're looking for deeper solutions, right?

00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:49.000
So, yeah, there's definitely a time

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.000
for, like, that attack to take place.

00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:55.000
But I think every day,

00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:57.000
every hour that it doesn't happen

00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:01.000
is like TikTok next block, TikTok next block.

00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:05.000
All right, you guys, we should be wrapping it up.

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:11.000
Skylar, do you have any last call, shout-outs?

00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:15.000
Anything else, any last words, anything you got?

00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.000
I mean, come to Vegas.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.000
Let's all hang out in Vegas if you guys want.

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:26.000
I'm doing a panel on Bitcoin design

00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:27.000
on the open source stage

00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.000
with a couple cool Bitcoin designers.

00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:34.000
And I'm bringing my new hats,

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:38.000
which I have multiple colors in.

00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:39.000
Let's go.

00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:41.000
And there's only two of these

00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:43.000
because they're so obnoxious.

00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:46.000
But I know that there will be people that want those.

00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:49.000
So, anyways, I would love to hang out in Vegas

00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:51.000
if you guys are watching this.

00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:52.000
Come hit us up.

00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:55.000
Go to the Thank God for Bitcoin barbecue.

00:55:55.000 --> 00:55:57.000
Is there still tickets?

00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.000
There's still tickets.

00:55:58.000 --> 00:55:59.000
There's still a few.

00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:00.000
They're going to go fast

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:02.000
because we have a group of 25

00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:04.000
that looks like they're going to come.

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:07.000
So that means we have less than 25 tickets left.

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:09.000
So go grab them.

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.000
I'll be there.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:12.000
Let's hang out in Vegas.

00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:13.000
It cracked me up

00:56:13.000 --> 00:56:16.000
because when you first started mentioning Bondor,

00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:20.000
you started mentioning different Italian artists.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:22.000
All I could think of was it's hilarious

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.000
because Skylar looks like he's wearing

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.000
the Bitcoin version of a Mario hat.

00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:32.000
Just following in their footsteps.

00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:33.000
It's great.

00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:35.000
All right, Jordan.

00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:36.000
Last words.

00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:37.000
What do you got?

00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:38.000
I'm good.

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.000
You shilled the barbecue for me.

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:42.000
Appreciate you guys, Skylar.

00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:43.000
Love you, bro.

00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.000
And, yeah, appreciate all of you guys watching.

00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:47.000
See you soon.

00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.000
All right, everybody.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:51.000
This has been Better Buy Bitcoin.

00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:52.000
Peace.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:56.000
Thanks for tuning in to Better Buy Bitcoin.

00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.000
Bitcoin makes everything better.

00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.000
Like, subscribe, and follow us on

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.000
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00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:04.000
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00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:05.000
Not financial advice.

00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.000
Mathematical certainty.