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Rupert Isaacson: Thanks for joining us.

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Welcome to Live Free, Ride Free.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson, New
York Times bestselling author of

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The Horseboy and The Long Ride Home.

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Before I jump in with today's guest, I
want to say a huge thank you to you, our

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audience, for helping to make this happen.

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If you like what we do here,
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To find out about our certification
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books, and other courses,
please go to rupertisaacson.com.

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So now let's jump in.

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Welcome back to Live Free, ride Free.

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Jason Barrett has put his life in
service to people with special needs.

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Obviously, that's dear to my heart
because I've done a rather similar thing.

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But I kind of had to do it because I,
obviously, I'm an autism dad, Jason

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and his wife Sise, who by the way, you
will want to go across to our equine

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assisted world podcast and listen to her
incredible interview and story there.

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But even though she's the sort of
horse person behind that, Jason

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has built an extraordinary family
business around theater performance,

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special needs, neuroplasticity.

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And living life sort of on
his own terms along the way.

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And when I first met Jason, which I think
was in 2018 he struck me as somebody who

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would see no obstacles in life because
you really can't, you shouldn't be able to

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make a living through this sort of weird
mix of equestrian theater autism living

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life on the road as a sort of performance
gypsy, let alone like raise a family and

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the whole thing and, and make a go of it.

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And yet he has.

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And I think we all kind of wanna run
away with the circus, so as the man that

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we might be running to if we do that.

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I wanna welcome Jason to the show.

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And so Jason, thanks
so much for coming on.

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You're one of my heroes.

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Tell us.

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Super.

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I'm excited to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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It's always fun to, to talk.

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Are you talk with, you hang out
with like-minded people, what

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possessed you to do something?

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So on the face of it, impossible to
make a living at when you could have

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just gone to law school or something?

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Jason Barrett: Well, I,
I, I could have done that.

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That would've been an option.

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I think first of all, you, you've gotta
look all the way back and I have to

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give credit to a, a fortunate life.

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I was born under great conditions.

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I was born in the United States with a
family who loved and cared for me under

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conditions that that allowed for growth.

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You know, there's a lot of
people that don't start that way.

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So that would be the first thing.

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You know, obviously you gotta have a
decent start, otherwise you may have

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some obstacles to go to overcome.

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And as far as my life was gone, has gone
there's been no real obstacles like that.

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Rupert Isaacson: You know, that's a very
honest thing to say because a lot of

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people want to sort of virtue signal by
saying, well, you know, I bootstrapped

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it and I came outta poverty and so on.

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I do know that you did bootstrap it.

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I know that you're being very modest
there, but it's interesting that you start

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with gratitude for the life circumstances.

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I think so many of us just completely,
who grew up in the West completely

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take for granted and have a bit
of a sense of entitlement to just

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the fact that we are born here and
not in Wartorn Sudan or something.

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And it is a very valid point.

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Okay, so you're born in, in
the us Where are you born?

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Jason Barrett: Born in
Jacksonville, Florida, down on the

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beautiful east coast of Florida.

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Moved shortly thereafter
to Mobile, Alabama.

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Were home.

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WW became home from three
years old, o old on.

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And and I guess as far as attention with
the with the special needs world and that,

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and that type of, how, that became such a
huge part of my life, which it absolutely

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did was, I was introduced and we're in
the Southern Baptist Bible Belt down here.

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So we were, we were good baptists.

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Amen.

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Coming to school to play basketball
or up to the church to play

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basketball and and hear the word.

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And so I was part of the youth
group at that time, and there was

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a really great youth pastor, you
know, a lot of a lot of preachers

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get condemnation from some folks.

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This was one of those honest, true to true
to life people, you know, a heartfelt guy.

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Okay.

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He recognized in me just from our
interactions with the youth group

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and, and things and went to my
mother and said, Hey, you know what?

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I've had this camp call and
they need hands on deck.

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It's for mentally retarded
children and adults, which

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was the term used at the time.

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Mm-hmm.

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And and we think, I think that Jason
has a good heart for this kind of work.

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He could probably help, but I was 12
years old at the time, so 12 years old.

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Wow.

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That's, that's what he,
that's what they thought.

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So he said, yeah, let's,
let's give it a try.

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I was willing, I, I wanted to do that.

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I, I did it already.

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Enjoy.

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Helping others and, and found
the joy and, and satisfaction

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and, and serving other people.

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And, and so anyway, I went, gave it a
shot, had no idea what I was walking into.

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I walked into a line of full grown man.

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There was a six foot three black dude
that was twice as wide as I was, who

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was getting pretty irate in the line.

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And then they introduced me to my
40-year-old camper, 49-year-old camper.

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This old man who could, who can't
speak, and he is drooling on himself.

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And this was my introduction to the
special needs community at 12 years old.

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So, wow.

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It was perfect.

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Absolutely perfect.

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What was your reaction?

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My reaction was just
shock and awe at first.

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Oh boy, what did I get myself into here?

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You know, but I was willing.

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I showed up.

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I'm not one to, you know, turn
away when I, when I tried.

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There must

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Rupert Isaacson: have been a
little bit of fear, though.

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I mean big autistic adults, it's not easy.

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Jason Barrett: Yeah.

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Shocking.

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It was a little bit of fear
but it calmed down very soon.

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The, the air in the place
at that time, you know, this

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was, this was before internet.

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This was before you, you had to show
up in person to sign your documents.

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You had to meet everyone
who passed through the line.

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You know this.

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Yeah.

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That was going on.

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So it's a different era.

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It's hard to talk about things now in
that, in the light of that, but the

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air from that moment was just this
big cooperative scene of happy people

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waiting to get in the lunch line.

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And everybody's kind of herding cats,
you know, they're, they're doing

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their part to help whoever they're
working with do the best job they can.

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And, and I jumped right in feet first, and
stayed there from 12 to about 20 each year

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for about five weeks out of the summer.

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I and a bunch of others showed up
there to be volunteers and, and

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help was, this was Camp Smile,

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Rupert Isaacson: right?

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Opportunities

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Jason Barrett: Camp Smile.

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This was Camp Smile, also called Camp.

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Why did it grab

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Rupert Isaacson: you so much?

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I can tell you I, at 12 or
my teens, I would've run.

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I just, I would've run a mile.

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Yeah.

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And most people do.

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Jason Barrett: I, I don't know, it
just, it was just innate, a part of

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me, even when I tried to transfer out
into the regular workforce, the idea

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of not helping someone directly just,
it just didn't make me feel like I was

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in sync with what I should be doing.

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So help, direct help is something
I could, can you just tell us a

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Rupert Isaacson: little bit though about
what, what was the internal process?

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I mean, what do you think made
you go, yes, this is for me.

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Jason Barrett: I would've probably,
I, it would, it was be after

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the fact that I got started.

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So maybe a week into that first
week, I knew where I was after that

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first week of working with that man.

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His name was David De Rocher and
he was, he was very mild behavior,

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like I said, 49-year-old man.

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And during the time that I worked with him
that week, it opened my eyes to the fact

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that most of us don't have any problems.

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You can, you can pretend you do, but
until you've worked in this, in this

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world and you see what families go through
and you see the lack of hope that just

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wells up and how the tiniest effort can
change everything in those situations,

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you really learn to be grateful.

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You learn.

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So I really attribute.

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My basic character to my understanding
at that camp with those, and I give a

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lot of credit to everything we've done
to the special needs humans who raised me

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while I was a young teenager helping them.

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How do you think they raised you?

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How did the special
needs people raise you?

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There's this you know, the, it, it
depends 'cause everyone is an individual.

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So you, you're talking about a
group of people that are indeed

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incredibly individualistic and some
of those you learn lessons, you learn

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lessons from some of these folks.

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You know, when one, just the lifestyle
of them and their family, the, the

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need to get up and put your next foot
forward regardless, sometimes shaking

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off the problem is exactly what you do.

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In this population.

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Some people don't even see the problem.

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There is no problem.

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So you, there's these tiny, tiny
lessons you can learn from a

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population that doesn't think and
breathe and live the same way you do.

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And you've learned that for, obviously
from your travels around the world.

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We are so different.

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And yet there's all
these tiny connections.

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If you're paying enough attention,
that can build something new in you.

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So for me, it was that, it was
seeing that these folks are willing

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to smile, have a great time.

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The forgiveness and the kindness that
you see, the, the, the connection that

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you can make because of the lack of
layers of humanity that's grown on top

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of our faces as we go through life.

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You know, those, those layers are peeled
back much like working with the horses.

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It's just you get an easy answer
from a horse, yes or no, I

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like this, I don't like this.

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And it builds room for
communication the same thing.

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This communication between
us was so simple at the time.

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Sometimes it's just to sit and a stare
and a look, and you're waiting for that.

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For something, a light
in the eye that changes.

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And when you notice it and then
you notice it again, then you

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realize, hey, there's a person in
there, there's a personality there.

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And that just, just grabbed me.

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I wanted to help that, I wanted
to be a part of helping that.

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Rupert Isaacson: You used the
word forgiveness just now.

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That's an interesting choice of words.

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What did you learn about
forgiveness as a, as a teen

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growing up with these, these folks?

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Jason Barrett: It just seemed like, you
know, intention really means something.

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Intention means something.

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And a lot of people can get caught
in the action or the word and

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ignore the intention that was meant.

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And maybe that was a
mistake, a wrong word.

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Maybe you did the wrong
thing at the wrong time.

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But the forgiveness aspect, learning,
learning from them is that whatever

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mistakes there were to happen if
you were late, if, if you lost their

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shirt or they, they didn't come back
with their favorite cup the next day.

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If you were still investing in
them in their time that was gone.

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There was, there was an opportunity to
rebuild almost immediately in most cases

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of the people that I've worked with, it
seems like that that's able, now I could

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imagine through nature, nurture nurture
that you could be developed in a different

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way and somebody could be very skittish.

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And there have been people that I've met
that I've seen that may have been abused

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along the way or, or were hurt people
that, that don't respond the same way.

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But in general, that's it.

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You get a, you get a second chance
without a slap in the face or,

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you know, without the grief.

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Rupert Isaacson: So you're saying
you are really talking about people

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forgiving you, your mistakes.

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Jason Barrett: Yeah.

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People forgiving.

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Yeah.

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Just learning to forgive.

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Right.

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Basically.

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Learning to forgive because either
it's a non-issue and you shouldn't

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have made that big of a deal of it
in the first place, Uhhuh, or it's

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something that can be passed over
for the value of your relationship.

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Or it's something you
have to handle directly.

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Maybe they're doing something
wrong that day and you really have

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to, to make sure they understand
this is not a safe behavior.

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You cannot do this.

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Mm-hmm.

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That may be different, but, and they may
hate you in the moment, but it just seems

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like there's always that opportunity
to start over in that population.

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You have a chance to help.

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Rupert Isaacson: Can you talk about how
did you work with these people at camps?

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Smile, like how did
you organize their day?

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What was the, yeah, what
was the structure of it?

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And then through that and those
activities, how did you, what did

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you learn about human development?

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Neuroplasticity, how the brain works.

00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.420
Jason Barrett: We had a structure,
like a typical camp program.

00:11:58.420 --> 00:12:01.900
You'd wake up and have a day full
of activities and, and scattered in

00:12:01.900 --> 00:12:03.430
between breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

00:12:03.810 --> 00:12:07.080
But it was a little different in
that the, the, the intimacy of

00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:08.790
the closeness to each other was.

00:12:09.195 --> 00:12:11.505
Was necessary because you
had to take care of these.

00:12:11.535 --> 00:12:13.875
They had, they couldn't shower
themselves, bathe themselves,

00:12:13.875 --> 00:12:15.285
use the restroom by themselves.

00:12:15.705 --> 00:12:18.115
A lot of times we had
wheelchairs that worked total

00:12:18.115 --> 00:12:20.885
paraplegics that, and diapers.

00:12:20.885 --> 00:12:27.885
So you've got a range of at that time, 12
to 20 year olds who are leading this under

00:12:27.975 --> 00:12:30.805
a couple of incredible mentors in my life.

00:12:30.845 --> 00:12:32.915
CSY Lowell and Martha White.

00:12:32.915 --> 00:12:36.035
They were two of the directors that
were at the time, and, and they had

00:12:36.035 --> 00:12:40.295
a, a real heart for it, you know,
and, and the social ability, I really

00:12:40.295 --> 00:12:46.265
learned a lot from both of them about
being open, leading a group, you know,

00:12:46.265 --> 00:12:48.845
trying, keeping engagement involved.

00:12:48.845 --> 00:12:51.215
So anyway, that's, that's the
days we're set up like that.

00:12:51.215 --> 00:12:55.145
We get up, have bre, get everybody ready,
have breakfast, and start some events.

00:12:55.205 --> 00:12:57.735
And that event would depend on what your.

00:12:58.590 --> 00:13:00.030
Camper was capable of doing.

00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:01.590
Not everybody could do the same thing.

00:13:01.590 --> 00:13:04.320
So you might be playing baseball
that day and your camper can't hold

00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:05.730
a bat, or maybe it doesn't have arms.

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.290
There's, there's no talent.

00:13:07.290 --> 00:13:11.540
So you're gonna find some creative way
to play that game with them and you'll

00:13:11.540 --> 00:13:14.270
follow, we'd follow them through the game.

00:13:14.270 --> 00:13:17.630
So nothing was necessarily required
outside of the organization of

00:13:17.630 --> 00:13:19.070
having people in the right places.

00:13:19.400 --> 00:13:24.020
But you'd be introduced to an activity, to
a dance just like any other normal camp.

00:13:24.020 --> 00:13:29.030
So the point was to give them a
opportunity at a life that felt like what

00:13:29.450 --> 00:13:34.170
us normies get the opportunities that we
may have at a camp situation like that.

00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:36.510
How do you

00:13:36.780 --> 00:13:38.670
Rupert Isaacson: help someone
with no arms play baseball?

00:13:39.855 --> 00:13:41.070
Jason Barrett: Well, you
could do a lot of things.

00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:42.570
You can hold the bat between your knees.

00:13:42.570 --> 00:13:44.820
If they're sitting in a wheelchair,
they could hold the bat between their

00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:48.450
knees, drop the T down low, and you turn
the wheelchair and let 'em smack it.

00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:50.070
And it's a small hit.

00:13:50.310 --> 00:13:53.160
And these tiny victories, you
know, sometimes that's a, that's

00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:55.470
a problem with some of these young
kids that look at these games and

00:13:55.470 --> 00:13:57.090
look at what these people can do.

00:13:57.090 --> 00:13:58.710
And it's, it's so limited.

00:13:59.445 --> 00:14:02.445
It's, you know, they may laugh
at it or they may think it's you

00:14:02.445 --> 00:14:03.645
know, what is the point of it.

00:14:04.155 --> 00:14:07.455
But when you spend the time with the
person who's engaged in it, and they've

00:14:07.455 --> 00:14:11.745
never had the opportunity to do that
before, it becomes a whole new thing.

00:14:11.745 --> 00:14:15.495
So you can find a joy and excitement
in that if you're willing to look.

00:14:15.885 --> 00:14:17.535
So, yeah, there's, there's
ways you could do that.

00:14:17.535 --> 00:14:21.765
You may, it may be a situation where you
slide your arms around him and hold the

00:14:21.765 --> 00:14:23.745
bat for them or her and hit the ball.

00:14:23.745 --> 00:14:23.835
Mm-hmm.

00:14:23.835 --> 00:14:26.445
Whatever you have to do to make
them a part of the thing so that

00:14:26.445 --> 00:14:28.035
they're not sitting on the sidelines.

00:14:28.365 --> 00:14:32.785
That was my introduction to the special
needs world and, and that population.

00:14:32.785 --> 00:14:36.025
And, and it was always, as you
mentioned before, nothing stops.

00:14:36.025 --> 00:14:36.205
You.

00:14:36.655 --> 00:14:38.155
You're gonna get to the next event.

00:14:38.155 --> 00:14:39.505
You're gonna go to the next thing.

00:14:39.505 --> 00:14:41.785
Everybody's gonna get a
chance to participate.

00:14:41.785 --> 00:14:45.205
We're gonna make it happen in whatever
that, whatever that obstacle is.

00:14:45.205 --> 00:14:47.665
And man, those are some great foundations.

00:14:48.475 --> 00:14:49.180
Those great foundations that are I

00:14:49.825 --> 00:14:52.885
Rupert Isaacson: how, but it
still blows my mind that you as a.

00:14:53.560 --> 00:14:59.200
American Teen Boy or whatever nationality,

00:14:59.770 --> 00:15:00.100
Jason Barrett: right.

00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:04.060
Rupert Isaacson: Dealing
with, you know, adult diapers.

00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:10.720
What, what do you think was your
special superpower that you could

00:15:11.830 --> 00:15:13.900
do that and be required to do that?

00:15:14.950 --> 00:15:20.470
And at that age, not with some
later maturity, but at that age.

00:15:20.500 --> 00:15:24.970
'cause 'cause the teenage years, we
are hardwired as you know, the human

00:15:24.970 --> 00:15:27.250
brain is hardwired to be self-absorbed.

00:15:28.030 --> 00:15:33.160
The, you know, brain is not
growing you know, all, at all

00:15:33.160 --> 00:15:35.410
the same pieces at the same time.

00:15:35.770 --> 00:15:41.350
And we know that nature designs us
at sort of toddlerdom and adolescence

00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:45.100
to go through these periods of
self-absorption where you sort of

00:15:45.100 --> 00:15:49.330
formulate first the personality of
childhood and then the personality.

00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:54.670
That will lead you into adulthood,
but they come with this.

00:15:55.510 --> 00:15:56.080
Yeah.

00:15:56.230 --> 00:15:58.330
Almost a kind of a built in narcissism

00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:04.270
that doesn't really usually
go with like adult diapers.

00:16:05.050 --> 00:16:05.740
That blows my mind.

00:16:05.740 --> 00:16:06.460
It makes sense.

00:16:06.730 --> 00:16:07.750
Why?

00:16:07.750 --> 00:16:09.310
What, what was different about your brain?

00:16:11.020 --> 00:16:14.690
Jason Barrett: There was no, now there's
no, there are no saints in the room here.

00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:18.500
So there's plenty of looking back and,
and thinking, man, that was a stupid

00:16:18.500 --> 00:16:21.320
decision or Wow, I could have been a
little more considerate about that.

00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.750
So there's, first of all,
let's right the ship.

00:16:23.780 --> 00:16:25.710
There was no perfect role going there.

00:16:26.050 --> 00:16:28.210
But we had a great community at the time.

00:16:29.005 --> 00:16:34.135
So coming into the, the camp,
it was already established.

00:16:34.135 --> 00:16:37.405
So I think that would be the, that
would be, there had to be mentorship.

00:16:37.405 --> 00:16:40.945
There had to be somebody that directed
that path, because that wasn't

00:16:40.945 --> 00:16:42.835
intrinsic to me yet at the time.

00:16:42.835 --> 00:16:42.845
Yeah.

00:16:43.375 --> 00:16:45.715
You know, I took these things
from those opportunities.

00:16:46.195 --> 00:16:47.815
So that would be the thing.

00:16:47.815 --> 00:16:48.655
Mentorship.

00:16:48.655 --> 00:16:52.075
And it's something we learned, especially
when we started developing Alisa School

00:16:52.075 --> 00:16:56.235
of Equestrian Arts for therapeutic
horseback riding, was that it just,

00:16:56.445 --> 00:17:01.485
it really dawned on me later in life
as I got involved in other states and

00:17:01.485 --> 00:17:06.345
places in special with the special needs
community, that there is just a timeframe

00:17:06.345 --> 00:17:12.085
that just like everything else, and I
believe fully between eight, 10 years

00:17:12.085 --> 00:17:19.975
old, 14, 15 years old, that is a special
time in development and that is a time

00:17:19.975 --> 00:17:23.725
you can take a child and inspire them.

00:17:24.565 --> 00:17:28.465
That inspiration stick and become
something I feel like, and I'm not,

00:17:28.675 --> 00:17:33.625
obviously things can happen at any time,
but man, that is a sweet spot and I've

00:17:33.625 --> 00:17:37.165
learned that over and over again as we've
sent generations of teenagers through

00:17:37.165 --> 00:17:42.395
our volunteer program that you know, if
you catch 'em at 16 or, you know, they

00:17:42.395 --> 00:17:45.665
might be a little too late when they're
driving around and have their own interest

00:17:45.665 --> 00:17:49.025
in their own life and they can be fully
self-absorbed, you know, they can be.

00:17:49.025 --> 00:17:51.515
But I was doing this, like I said, at 12.

00:17:51.515 --> 00:17:53.165
I wasn't going anywhere on my own.

00:17:53.565 --> 00:17:56.145
Camp was the place where
I made my friends as well.

00:17:56.145 --> 00:17:58.755
So it was definitely a
community involvement.

00:17:58.755 --> 00:18:04.035
And when I walked in, the leadership
at the time maintained enthusiasm.

00:18:04.395 --> 00:18:08.295
I mean, that's a, it's a big deal in all
of these programs that we see around the

00:18:08.295 --> 00:18:10.125
country and, and what we've done ourself.

00:18:10.485 --> 00:18:13.275
If there's no enthusiasm
in it, it's short.

00:18:13.305 --> 00:18:14.715
It's going to be short-lived.

00:18:15.115 --> 00:18:17.065
And so that enthusiasm is infectious.

00:18:17.065 --> 00:18:21.085
So I, I believe that with it being that
it was a, it was a perfect storm for me.

00:18:21.265 --> 00:18:22.765
It's not the normal story.

00:18:23.105 --> 00:18:27.065
For sure as you're alluding to, it's not
the normal story, but there were hundreds

00:18:27.065 --> 00:18:30.725
of other kids that helped out in the
same way I did that were all teenagers.

00:18:31.095 --> 00:18:32.885
So, it's not a lone story.

00:18:33.425 --> 00:18:36.485
So I think it was the community, the
factor that we came in there that I was

00:18:36.485 --> 00:18:37.895
interested in doing in the first place.

00:18:37.895 --> 00:18:40.805
I had a heart and mind for that,
just, that's just how I grew up.

00:18:41.255 --> 00:18:45.345
And then coming in there and meeting
like-minded people with some leadership

00:18:45.345 --> 00:18:51.045
that were really heartfelt, involved
all the way through every aspect of it.

00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:54.930
To be there walking with
you through the steps.

00:18:55.410 --> 00:18:56.790
That was an infectious time.

00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.400
We had an incredible
time at that time period.

00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:02.580
I've watched it change through the
years and there's been pros and

00:19:02.580 --> 00:19:05.400
cons that have come and developed,
but there was a magic time there.

00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:08.400
I'm sure you remember some of those
times before there were cell phones and

00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.570
recordings and everybody had to second
guess everything with a thousand choices.

00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:15.100
Yeah, it was just something
special in that time.

00:19:15.100 --> 00:19:17.350
So that was probably
what instilled it in me.

00:19:17.350 --> 00:19:19.630
Like I said, it didn't just
start there, but it grew.

00:19:19.810 --> 00:19:23.230
That's, that's the place that grew my
character and, and the direction that I

00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:25.630
hope to take my life and future family.

00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:27.340
Rupert Isaacson: I've got a question.

00:19:27.340 --> 00:19:28.780
It's a bit of a provocative question.

00:19:28.780 --> 00:19:30.940
You say that this happened through
the Southern Baptist Church?

00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:31.330
Yeah.

00:19:31.990 --> 00:19:32.200
Yep.

00:19:33.010 --> 00:19:36.520
Well, you know, Southern Baptist Church
I lived, I've lived in the South.

00:19:37.150 --> 00:19:37.240
Mm-hmm.

00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:37.750
A lot.

00:19:38.590 --> 00:19:43.600
And I've observed some not good things.

00:19:44.020 --> 00:19:45.280
Through that church.

00:19:45.285 --> 00:19:45.455
Yeah.

00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:51.170
And one of the issues of it is it
was one of only two churches that

00:19:51.170 --> 00:19:59.570
I know of that sort of wrote a
theology designed to justify slavery.

00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:05.970
The other one is the, is the church of
some of my ancestors, which is the Dutch

00:20:05.970 --> 00:20:14.340
Reform Church in South Africa, which
sort of rewrote its rules to allow for

00:20:14.340 --> 00:20:18.840
apartheid in South Africa, you know,
the separation of whites and blacks.

00:20:19.530 --> 00:20:22.460
And there's a, you know, an age
old joke where, you know, the white

00:20:22.490 --> 00:20:26.600
priest, the PE as they call them,
is coming to church and there's a

00:20:28.580 --> 00:20:30.560
black person down on their knees.

00:20:31.370 --> 00:20:31.460
Mm-hmm.

00:20:32.060 --> 00:20:33.560
And they said, what are you doing in here?

00:20:34.310 --> 00:20:36.680
Was like, you know, I'm,
I'm cleaning the floor boss.

00:20:37.565 --> 00:20:39.785
And he goes, well, all right, but
don't let me catch you praying.

00:20:41.405 --> 00:20:45.025
And yeah, but you know, we know
that the Southern Baptist Church

00:20:45.025 --> 00:20:47.025
was related to the Ku Klux Klan.

00:20:47.025 --> 00:20:52.375
We know that it, it was, and even
pre that, you know, came out very,

00:20:52.375 --> 00:20:55.675
very much in favor of a theology.

00:20:55.675 --> 00:20:58.105
And, you know, you don't actually
have to try very hard because the Old

00:20:58.105 --> 00:21:02.395
Testament is actually full of slavery
because the old Hebrews kept slaves.

00:21:02.935 --> 00:21:06.685
As did actually the early
Christians in the Roman Empire

00:21:07.165 --> 00:21:08.005
Jason Barrett: been around for a long

00:21:08.005 --> 00:21:08.275
Rupert Isaacson: time.

00:21:08.275 --> 00:21:09.625
Slaves, sometimes they kept slaves.

00:21:09.985 --> 00:21:13.105
But point being, you
understand what I'm saying?

00:21:13.135 --> 00:21:20.165
There has been a really toxic relationship
with compassion, anti compassion, really

00:21:20.465 --> 00:21:21.965
through the Southern Baptist Church.

00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:26.030
But you clearly have had a,
an, an experience with it that

00:21:26.030 --> 00:21:27.380
was completely the opposite.

00:21:27.890 --> 00:21:29.210
I find that intriguing.

00:21:29.390 --> 00:21:30.770
Why do you think that was

00:21:34.040 --> 00:21:34.370
Jason Barrett: one?

00:21:34.370 --> 00:21:34.970
I was 12.

00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:38.845
So these thoughts and these
contemplations, but they

00:21:38.845 --> 00:21:41.510
were clearly these thoughts
would've been there at the time.

00:21:41.760 --> 00:21:46.770
Two, obviously like everything, it's made
up of individuals with different character

00:21:46.770 --> 00:21:50.170
and different principles, and you can't
throw out the baby with the bath water.

00:21:50.410 --> 00:21:50.620
Hmm.

00:21:50.650 --> 00:21:55.580
So, that's, I guess that's it For me,
it was just, that's just who I was.

00:21:55.580 --> 00:21:57.320
I was about, my family was full of love.

00:21:57.320 --> 00:21:58.340
There was no abuse.

00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.150
And my immediate family where there were
and degenerations before where there

00:22:02.150 --> 00:22:06.590
was trauma and stuff, and my immediate
household, my parents protected us.

00:22:06.930 --> 00:22:07.590
We were loved.

00:22:07.590 --> 00:22:08.760
We had family and friends.

00:22:09.150 --> 00:22:10.250
So, to be.

00:22:10.925 --> 00:22:12.215
There, the church, that was it.

00:22:12.305 --> 00:22:16.145
I went, it was a comforting place
and all that as I grew and learned

00:22:16.505 --> 00:22:17.855
more and more about things.

00:22:17.855 --> 00:22:22.905
And actually one of the biggest things
that, that kind of, well, there was,

00:22:22.965 --> 00:22:25.905
there's plenty, there's plenty of
things to shake your mind on the

00:22:25.905 --> 00:22:30.505
formulation of human's idea of, of
religion but in all its aspects.

00:22:30.505 --> 00:22:33.355
But the actual camp that we're
talking about, camp Smile was

00:22:33.625 --> 00:22:37.345
based out of a campgrounds that
was known as the Baptist Assembly.

00:22:37.735 --> 00:22:41.605
It was owned and operated by them,
and so it was a charitable venture.

00:22:41.605 --> 00:22:43.615
So growing up I'm just
like, oh, this is great.

00:22:44.005 --> 00:22:46.420
They're helping these people and
we're doing this thing and this camp,

00:22:46.420 --> 00:22:49.455
you know, as I grew up, later on I
realized that that, well, that cost a.

00:22:49.860 --> 00:22:50.700
Shit ton of money.

00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:54.610
They're, they're making bank down
here in this tiny little town

00:22:54.940 --> 00:22:56.500
where there is no other option.

00:22:56.890 --> 00:23:01.180
And it's, and all, all the efforts
to keep these programs alive.

00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:04.000
At that time, it wasn't
backed by any larger groups.

00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.210
Now it's backed by United Cerebral
Palsy and they run and they're well

00:23:07.210 --> 00:23:09.130
funded and, and all that stuff.

00:23:09.130 --> 00:23:11.560
So back then it was grassroots still.

00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.790
And so every dime was going to pay
this place off, and none of the

00:23:15.790 --> 00:23:19.540
investment that went back into the
property helped the camp at all.

00:23:19.840 --> 00:23:25.120
For instance, a building was built
without wheelchair regulations, so you

00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:28.510
couldn't fit all the campers in and out
of air and the shower houses and stuff.

00:23:29.020 --> 00:23:29.680
Ridiculous.

00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:31.360
So anyway, long story short.

00:23:31.975 --> 00:23:35.485
There's plenty of bad in each of
the religions I've, I've visited.

00:23:36.175 --> 00:23:37.375
So, so yeah.

00:23:37.375 --> 00:23:38.395
So for me, that was it.

00:23:38.425 --> 00:23:41.845
There was I didn't have any other
situations I knew of in that church.

00:23:41.905 --> 00:23:46.365
There was a problem with a pastor who
had messed, who had defiled a child or

00:23:46.705 --> 00:23:48.505
there was a, there was an issue late.

00:23:48.505 --> 00:23:49.585
I mean, it's just disgusting.

00:23:49.645 --> 00:23:52.165
You hear it all the time and
it's, it's, it's disheartening.

00:23:52.675 --> 00:23:57.805
But at the same time, in that building,
there are mothers and families who

00:23:57.835 --> 00:24:01.285
are loving and accepting and trying
to help their kids grow and don't

00:24:01.285 --> 00:24:03.205
think an ill thought about anyone.

00:24:03.745 --> 00:24:05.095
So I find that to be true.

00:24:05.095 --> 00:24:08.875
Most places I go, unfortunately, the
ugly stuff sticks out and you have to

00:24:08.875 --> 00:24:12.925
pay attention to it because it may be
a part of the whole program, you know?

00:24:12.925 --> 00:24:13.135
But

00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:15.745
Rupert Isaacson: you, you say
a particular youth pastor that

00:24:15.745 --> 00:24:17.215
you had was not like that.

00:24:17.215 --> 00:24:19.645
He was actually a particularly good.

00:24:20.020 --> 00:24:20.560
Person,

00:24:20.950 --> 00:24:22.240
Jason Barrett: particularly Good person.

00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:22.420
Yeah.

00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:23.290
A sweet spirit.

00:24:23.290 --> 00:24:26.890
You know, when you meet somebody that
has a sweet spirit, that has a kind

00:24:27.310 --> 00:24:33.150
spirit, a kind disposition and he was,
that, he was, he was young at the time.

00:24:33.150 --> 00:24:37.470
I think he was probably only in his
early twenties recently married.

00:24:37.470 --> 00:24:38.130
He was married.

00:24:38.130 --> 00:24:39.750
While it was just a, a sweet guy.

00:24:39.750 --> 00:24:41.100
I actually met him years later.

00:24:41.100 --> 00:24:41.940
I, I found him.

00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:46.200
We had, I took him to lunch to tell
him how much I appreciated him making

00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.200
that moment or seeing whatever he
did and said that to me and how much

00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.190
it's developed and how it's helped
me build and grow my family and, and

00:24:53.190 --> 00:24:57.150
the network of acquaintances we have
that are as close as family, so.

00:24:57.150 --> 00:24:57.300
Mm-hmm.

00:24:57.890 --> 00:24:59.810
So yeah, he was, he was a genuine guy.

00:25:00.140 --> 00:25:03.530
He in that, he was one of the guys
who brought out that situation

00:25:03.530 --> 00:25:05.780
against one of the pastors
that had happened in the place.

00:25:05.780 --> 00:25:07.040
So it was tough.

00:25:07.100 --> 00:25:08.300
It was a tough thing then.

00:25:08.300 --> 00:25:08.870
I was a child.

00:25:08.870 --> 00:25:09.740
I knew nothing about it.

00:25:09.800 --> 00:25:10.940
Heard things later on.

00:25:11.370 --> 00:25:13.290
But it seems to be
pretty normal everywhere.

00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:13.920
Yeah.

00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:14.285
So I.

00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:17.370
I gave up the organized
religion thing a while ago.

00:25:17.370 --> 00:25:20.940
I, I believe there's something amazing
and bigger out there, but I'm not

00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:24.335
smart enough to tell you or anybody
else what it is, so we keep looking.

00:25:24.335 --> 00:25:24.585
Well, at

00:25:24.585 --> 00:25:27.120
Rupert Isaacson: what point did you,
you know, I, I want to go in obviously

00:25:27.120 --> 00:25:30.690
to the career that you've had and how
you've built this, this incredible world

00:25:30.690 --> 00:25:34.890
that you, you have with this thing called
equestrian chaos, which is of course,

00:25:34.890 --> 00:25:38.910
actually anything but chaotic, because
yeah, it requires ridiculous amounts of

00:25:38.910 --> 00:25:42.870
structure, but it's a spectacular, a lot
of organizations thing that you guys do.

00:25:43.110 --> 00:25:48.660
But just before we start going to
how you and Sise put that together

00:25:48.790 --> 00:25:53.140
and made a go of it at what point
did you move away from religion?

00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.480
Because, you know, it, it can
be very difficult when you

00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:59.390
grow up with those supports.

00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:03.500
To not become really attached
to them just culturally.

00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:03.590
Mm-hmm.

00:26:04.730 --> 00:26:08.450
And also from a point of view
of, you know, safety or perceived

00:26:08.450 --> 00:26:12.320
safety, you know, security, perceived
security and that sort of thing.

00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:14.900
It, it, it's, it's difficult to leave.

00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:16.400
What was the process?

00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:16.430
I

00:26:17.420 --> 00:26:19.160
Jason Barrett: think first I'd
have to say our relationship

00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:20.420
with the church was casual.

00:26:20.810 --> 00:26:23.030
In, in the beginning it
was, I mean, we were there.

00:26:23.030 --> 00:26:26.600
I was, I was young and, and filled
with the Holy Spirit and everything

00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:27.620
that was going on in the room.

00:26:27.620 --> 00:26:30.560
But my family's relationship was
fairly casual with the church.

00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:33.190
So we weren't every Sunday
goers and all that stuff.

00:26:33.580 --> 00:26:33.800
Me,

00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.215
Rupert Isaacson: so you, you,
you are very much in this

00:26:37.575 --> 00:26:39.585
church-based thing from 12 to 20.

00:26:40.575 --> 00:26:42.650
But yet at a certain point,
you away from it, right?

00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:42.680
The church thing

00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:43.005
Jason Barrett: faded.

00:26:43.185 --> 00:26:43.425
Yeah.

00:26:43.425 --> 00:26:43.605
Okay.

00:26:43.605 --> 00:26:44.535
I'm back, back with you.

00:26:44.535 --> 00:26:47.895
The church thing sort of faded during
those years as a teenager would grow and,

00:26:48.135 --> 00:26:52.095
and do things that a teenager would enjoy
to do that go against the, the Holy Bible.

00:26:52.455 --> 00:26:54.625
But but so that, there was
a little decline there.

00:26:55.015 --> 00:26:57.625
And, but still that was
in my heart, you know?

00:26:57.625 --> 00:27:00.625
It was, it was a desire, you know, I
wanted people to have the best thing

00:27:00.625 --> 00:27:04.045
in the world and the best thing in the
world was going to heaven, you know?

00:27:04.045 --> 00:27:04.345
Yeah.

00:27:04.345 --> 00:27:05.665
That's what I, that's what I learned.

00:27:05.665 --> 00:27:06.865
Why would you not wanna do that?

00:27:06.865 --> 00:27:09.595
That's the best thing you could have,
is to end your life in paradise.

00:27:09.925 --> 00:27:11.335
So that was that was it.

00:27:11.395 --> 00:27:13.735
But like I said, it, it faded away.

00:27:13.735 --> 00:27:17.275
Really wasn't much of a
consequence on becoming a graduate.

00:27:17.845 --> 00:27:18.955
Parents divorced.

00:27:18.955 --> 00:27:22.475
I'm kind of doing my own thing
back and forth out of college.

00:27:22.575 --> 00:27:26.825
And then I I had a instance
where a guy knocked on my door.

00:27:27.825 --> 00:27:31.955
One of Jehovah's Witnesses knocked
on the door, he said to me.

00:27:32.705 --> 00:27:35.885
So just, we're just walking through the
neighborhood and talking today about,

00:27:35.885 --> 00:27:38.615
you know, where do you see the state
of the world and it, where it's going.

00:27:38.735 --> 00:27:42.145
And I said, well, I, I think it's
it's good, but it's kind of rough now.

00:27:42.175 --> 00:27:44.365
It's probably gonna get worse
and it'll get a lot better.

00:27:44.425 --> 00:27:48.595
And that was my, it's get him out the
door finish this conversation quickly.

00:27:49.045 --> 00:27:51.025
And he was like, oh man,
that's a very insightful thing.

00:27:51.385 --> 00:27:55.405
Anyway, that conversation led to two years
of studying the scriptures with this guy.

00:27:55.805 --> 00:27:56.765
Couple days a week.

00:27:57.425 --> 00:27:57.605
How old?

00:27:57.605 --> 00:27:58.415
I was 18.

00:27:58.955 --> 00:27:59.345
Okay.

00:27:59.395 --> 00:28:00.595
18, 19 or so.

00:28:00.595 --> 00:28:00.925
Then

00:28:01.405 --> 00:28:03.265
Rupert Isaacson: the Jehovah's
Witnesses got you for a while?

00:28:03.625 --> 00:28:04.855
Jason Barrett: Oh yeah, they
got me for a little bit.

00:28:04.855 --> 00:28:05.425
Sure did.

00:28:05.425 --> 00:28:08.715
So we studied the Bible a little
bit and that's when the pictures

00:28:08.715 --> 00:28:10.515
of religion started to crumble.

00:28:11.005 --> 00:28:12.565
What I liked about.

00:28:13.825 --> 00:28:17.185
That is that they were doing the work
that I had heard all these churches were

00:28:17.185 --> 00:28:20.185
supposed to be doing the whole time I
was in church where they were actually

00:28:20.185 --> 00:28:24.245
walking around and really talking to
people at telling 'em about Jesus and

00:28:24.245 --> 00:28:25.805
how great life was, stuff like that.

00:28:25.835 --> 00:28:28.775
So that was appealing that they
were actually doing the work.

00:28:29.375 --> 00:28:33.665
I was sort of in turmoil 'cause I wasn't
sure where I was gonna go from there.

00:28:33.665 --> 00:28:36.035
University was a drag, you know?

00:28:36.285 --> 00:28:38.985
I did not enjoy the things
I was learning at the time.

00:28:38.985 --> 00:28:40.815
Didn't seem to have a place to go with it.

00:28:41.265 --> 00:28:43.035
I wanted to be an occupational therapist.

00:28:43.035 --> 00:28:46.045
And then I did some work in the
field and realized that turned

00:28:46.045 --> 00:28:50.125
into very specific work that you
do over and over again forever.

00:28:50.755 --> 00:28:52.435
So that appeal was gone.

00:28:52.715 --> 00:28:56.345
So anyway, so then I decided I'd help
people find their way to forever.

00:28:56.685 --> 00:29:00.055
So then I started with the Jehovah's
Witness preaching and teaching.

00:29:00.485 --> 00:29:03.485
I did that for about two years.

00:29:03.545 --> 00:29:04.625
Moved to Georgia.

00:29:05.315 --> 00:29:08.135
Where I did this, walking through
the streets, held Bible studies with

00:29:08.135 --> 00:29:12.385
folks and, and and as much as I look
back at that and go, yeah, that's just

00:29:12.385 --> 00:29:16.885
another religion created by men after
the fact, the lessons I learned at

00:29:16.885 --> 00:29:18.445
that time, I would've hate to give up.

00:29:18.895 --> 00:29:21.565
I learned to speak to people under.

00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:23.440
The worst circumstances.

00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.470
You know, you're going door to
door speaking interpersonally with

00:29:26.470 --> 00:29:28.990
folks, giving lectures in big halls.

00:29:29.320 --> 00:29:33.730
All the things that came to be something
that would be a valuable contribution

00:29:33.730 --> 00:29:35.500
to my family and my life in the future.

00:29:35.860 --> 00:29:38.260
Were nailed in strong in two years.

00:29:38.260 --> 00:29:40.570
You know, you, you walk up to
somebody's who door who doesn't

00:29:40.570 --> 00:29:41.680
wanna talk about the Bible.

00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:43.870
That's, that's a tough conversation.

00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:46.420
And you walk up to somebody's door
who wants to talk about the Bible?

00:29:46.420 --> 00:29:47.590
That's a tough conversation.

00:29:47.590 --> 00:29:49.960
You gotta, there's a lot that
could happen in between there.

00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:53.450
So, so yeah, what a, what a learning
opportunity that was for me.

00:29:53.450 --> 00:29:57.050
But in the big picture of religion and
all that stuff, it just boiled down to

00:29:57.050 --> 00:30:02.540
these are, these are, you know, men's,
they're taking a stab at things older

00:30:02.540 --> 00:30:07.490
than everything they know, and decisions
and words passed down through generations

00:30:07.490 --> 00:30:09.500
by mouth before they ever hit the pen.

00:30:10.190 --> 00:30:12.800
It, it just all kind of flows the same.

00:30:12.800 --> 00:30:18.100
So from then on, I, I, I vowed
to, engage my surroundings.

00:30:18.100 --> 00:30:21.070
Everything in my world that
I could touch or influence.

00:30:21.610 --> 00:30:24.760
There's, there's, there's my
religion, there's my spirituality.

00:30:24.790 --> 00:30:25.195
I want to give much.

00:30:25.215 --> 00:30:26.045
But How did you, how did you go?

00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.080
Rupert Isaacson: The Jehovah's
Witnesses don't like to let people go.

00:30:29.080 --> 00:30:30.940
How did you, how did
you get away from that?

00:30:32.230 --> 00:30:32.440
Jason Barrett: You know,

00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:33.130
Rupert Isaacson: there's a lot of,

00:30:34.030 --> 00:30:36.670
Jason Barrett: there's a lot of stories
in both directions about how things work.

00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:37.540
It was very simple.

00:30:37.540 --> 00:30:38.620
I just didn't go anymore.

00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:42.220
It was no, there was no lockdown
procedures or things like that.

00:30:42.220 --> 00:30:42.230
What

00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:43.390
Rupert Isaacson: was the deciding factor?

00:30:44.275 --> 00:30:44.755
For me, the

00:30:44.755 --> 00:30:47.735
Jason Barrett: deciding factor was
well, the contemplations that I

00:30:47.735 --> 00:30:51.125
was having about, okay, where does,
where do the roots of this go?

00:30:51.125 --> 00:30:55.475
What drew me in was the tight-knit
community, the appreciation for

00:30:55.475 --> 00:30:58.385
learning and for understanding,
for actually doing the work.

00:30:58.505 --> 00:30:59.945
That's what, that's what drew me in.

00:30:59.945 --> 00:31:02.825
I even traveled to London with a
family, stayed there for a while,

00:31:02.825 --> 00:31:06.705
and learned same thing regardless
of what continent we were on.

00:31:07.005 --> 00:31:08.025
They had a similar thing.

00:31:08.025 --> 00:31:11.295
There was lots of dark things in
there too that I've learned over the

00:31:11.295 --> 00:31:13.065
years afterwards or have heard about.

00:31:13.095 --> 00:31:16.035
But anyway, that was what
drew me in the beginning.

00:31:16.185 --> 00:31:17.025
That's what it was.

00:31:17.025 --> 00:31:19.635
It was a good community and they were
teaching and doing, doing the stuff

00:31:19.635 --> 00:31:20.685
they said they were gonna be doing.

00:31:21.015 --> 00:31:21.285
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:31:21.285 --> 00:31:23.025
But what then made you
think you wanted to leave?

00:31:24.435 --> 00:31:27.315
Jason Barrett: That was when I was
realizing that all of these things are

00:31:27.315 --> 00:31:29.385
just, are just the contemplations of men.

00:31:29.925 --> 00:31:30.915
You know, these things.

00:31:31.005 --> 00:31:32.115
It doesn't matter how you get there.

00:31:32.115 --> 00:31:33.675
It doesn't matter if they're
right or they're wrong.

00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:34.740
They could be.

00:31:34.830 --> 00:31:38.280
And they came from the thoughts of
men trying to organize ideas that

00:31:38.280 --> 00:31:39.540
were too big for them to grasp.

00:31:39.990 --> 00:31:41.910
And that's, that began it.

00:31:41.910 --> 00:31:45.870
And then I saw in that particular
situation, there was a friend of mine

00:31:45.870 --> 00:31:49.890
that was working for a guy who was, I
didn't like those situations so well.

00:31:49.890 --> 00:31:52.050
I thought he was kind of
being taken advantage of.

00:31:52.050 --> 00:31:52.785
And I said, you know what?

00:31:53.625 --> 00:31:55.770
I think we're just right
back at square one again.

00:31:55.770 --> 00:31:57.000
So, we're out.

00:31:57.435 --> 00:31:57.725
Okay.

00:31:57.725 --> 00:31:58.260
And that was it.

00:31:58.740 --> 00:31:59.730
That was, that was the end of it.

00:32:00.690 --> 00:32:02.130
Rupert Isaacson: And then, then
you're twenties, so you went,

00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:03.210
did you go off to college?

00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:04.500
Jason Barrett: I did.

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:07.020
I went to college for a little while
at University of South Alabama.

00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:11.220
And then after I left the witnesses,
I started in the corporate world

00:32:11.520 --> 00:32:14.120
went to like I mentioned, I
wanted to do occupational therapy.

00:32:14.120 --> 00:32:15.230
Found out that wasn't it.

00:32:15.650 --> 00:32:19.420
I got a job right after working with
the witnesses with Kohl's department

00:32:19.420 --> 00:32:23.710
stores, traveling the country and setting
up new stores and new areas and stuff.

00:32:23.710 --> 00:32:24.280
So that was great.

00:32:24.280 --> 00:32:27.760
I got a taste of travel, but then that
became the same thing as everything else.

00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:31.060
Retail, you're filling shelves
with shit so that people can

00:32:31.060 --> 00:32:32.470
pick it up and throw it away.

00:32:32.470 --> 00:32:37.330
So I just can't see where that
could be satisfying life for me.

00:32:37.690 --> 00:32:39.070
Anyway, so that had to go.

00:32:39.340 --> 00:32:42.330
And then of course, I, I
decided to it's a wildlife.

00:32:42.330 --> 00:32:43.350
I've changed a lot of things.

00:32:44.070 --> 00:32:47.640
So from there I decided that I
needed to be interacting with people.

00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.220
I wanted to help people
individually again, so I decided

00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:51.720
to be a massage therapist.

00:32:51.840 --> 00:32:54.900
However actually a, a, a
note that I am proud of.

00:32:54.900 --> 00:32:58.640
During that time with Kohls, I
was able to, when it was getting

00:32:59.060 --> 00:33:03.980
depressing to be in that type of work
lifestyle, I was able to integrate a

00:33:03.980 --> 00:33:06.020
special needs program at the store.

00:33:06.045 --> 00:33:06.335
Okay.

00:33:06.350 --> 00:33:09.380
So we were able to bring in
employees with special needs.

00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:11.960
Had a guy with Down syndrome
and a guy with traumatic brain

00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:13.890
injury and a guy with autism.

00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.800
They, they were able to come in
the store and they were working

00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:18.510
with a local organization there.

00:33:18.850 --> 00:33:21.490
But that ended up working out and
even 15 years later, one of those

00:33:21.490 --> 00:33:23.350
guys still had his job at that store.

00:33:23.350 --> 00:33:24.250
So it was pretty cool.

00:33:24.310 --> 00:33:27.740
We did a couple of foundation walks,
met some really beautiful people.

00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:31.955
And, and more importantly than that,
I got people in the store accustomed

00:33:31.955 --> 00:33:35.330
to being around those people with
special needs and finding something

00:33:35.330 --> 00:33:38.720
cool about 'em, you know, where they
could slap PI five and, and be in a

00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.230
store with people that worked there
for 15 years and have a relationship.

00:33:42.230 --> 00:33:43.070
So that was really fun.

00:33:43.070 --> 00:33:46.040
So that was a little touch back into
the special needs department while

00:33:46.040 --> 00:33:47.420
I was trying to find myself again.

00:33:49.370 --> 00:33:50.480
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so

00:33:53.060 --> 00:33:53.645
tell us now.

00:33:54.920 --> 00:34:00.770
What you do now, and then we're gonna
backtrack to how you got that going.

00:34:01.040 --> 00:34:02.660
In a nutshell, tell us what you do.

00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:04.550
So now, if we scratch

00:34:04.550 --> 00:34:08.750
Jason Barrett: everything I've just
told you, we are a traveling, performing

00:34:08.750 --> 00:34:10.800
family through equestrian chaos.

00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:12.630
I am the mc from my family.

00:34:12.630 --> 00:34:15.240
We perform on stage doing
horseback, archery, and

00:34:15.240 --> 00:34:17.340
acrobatics around the country.

00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:20.450
We're in our fourth year of
coast to coast national travels.

00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:23.520
All that spawned from the
heart of everything we do.

00:34:23.520 --> 00:34:27.170
Alisa's School of the Equestrian Arts
our therapeutic horseback riding program.

00:34:27.740 --> 00:34:30.320
And equestrian Chaos was just
the backyard fundraiser for

00:34:30.380 --> 00:34:31.730
that ended up saving the day.

00:34:31.730 --> 00:34:35.810
So right now we both run both
equestrian chaos and incredible

00:34:35.870 --> 00:34:39.050
trick riding troop and archery
troop that travels the country.

00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:42.770
And we run Ali School Equestrian
Arts and innovative therapeutic

00:34:42.770 --> 00:34:46.820
horseback riding program that
marries trick riding and performance

00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:48.440
arts with therapeutic horseman.

00:34:50.585 --> 00:34:51.125
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:34:51.935 --> 00:34:56.465
And you, the mc and of course
the person that you know,

00:34:57.155 --> 00:34:58.325
organizes it and keeps going.

00:34:59.075 --> 00:35:03.125
In that story you told us about childhood,
adolescence and early adulthood.

00:35:03.995 --> 00:35:05.315
I didn't hear anything about horses.

00:35:06.395 --> 00:35:07.055
Jason Barrett: Not a drop.

00:35:07.865 --> 00:35:08.675
There were two stories.

00:35:08.945 --> 00:35:09.725
There were two stories.

00:35:09.725 --> 00:35:13.745
We were at a party, a barn party,
and one of my buddies says, Hey, you

00:35:13.745 --> 00:35:14.795
think we could ride those horses?

00:35:15.455 --> 00:35:18.605
So we hopped on the horses
and came off very quickly.

00:35:19.055 --> 00:35:22.205
And then one other time I was trying
to date a girl and she had horses,

00:35:22.205 --> 00:35:23.555
so I went for a ride with her.

00:35:23.975 --> 00:35:26.795
Same result truck flew by
on the road, horse jumped.

00:35:26.795 --> 00:35:30.245
I came off and walked my way back to
the bar to find the horse and the girl.

00:35:31.565 --> 00:35:32.195
But that was it.

00:35:32.195 --> 00:35:36.305
So yeah, horses were a new concept
to me when I met my beautiful bride.

00:35:36.695 --> 00:35:36.905
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:35:37.115 --> 00:35:37.505
Okay.

00:35:38.555 --> 00:35:38.735
So

00:35:39.005 --> 00:35:40.115
Jason Barrett: talk to us about that.

00:35:41.555 --> 00:35:45.165
So that would take us back to
leaving a job that was, not for

00:35:45.165 --> 00:35:46.755
me, for something I wanted to do.

00:35:47.175 --> 00:35:48.045
I wanted to help people.

00:35:48.045 --> 00:35:50.985
So I decided to become
a massage therapist.

00:35:51.495 --> 00:35:55.975
Another, another line which again
helped me incredibly later on.

00:35:56.375 --> 00:36:02.315
So I, I took a job went to a school
in Florida near Orlando, who was

00:36:02.315 --> 00:36:06.455
owned by the parent company that owns
all the spas on the cruise ships.

00:36:06.725 --> 00:36:10.775
So I had an idea to travel internationally
to find the next step while I was

00:36:10.775 --> 00:36:12.395
doing something I could enjoy doing.

00:36:12.845 --> 00:36:13.775
That was the whole plan.

00:36:13.775 --> 00:36:15.005
Everything was set and done.

00:36:15.065 --> 00:36:19.535
That was where it was going to
go, and it started that direction,

00:36:19.535 --> 00:36:20.495
but it didn't finish there.

00:36:20.885 --> 00:36:25.125
So I flew down to Orlando, started
training found a job at the Dolly Parton,

00:36:25.125 --> 00:36:27.885
Dixie Stampede no longer called such.

00:36:27.885 --> 00:36:29.865
'cause those words are bad, but,

00:36:31.995 --> 00:36:32.355
and what was

00:36:32.355 --> 00:36:32.745
Rupert Isaacson: the Dolly?

00:36:32.810 --> 00:36:34.095
Partons Dixie Stampede.

00:36:34.095 --> 00:36:34.605
And why'd you get a job?

00:36:34.605 --> 00:36:35.050
So it's a's.

00:36:35.685 --> 00:36:36.525
It was a dinner show.

00:36:37.185 --> 00:36:38.505
Jason Barrett: It was a, it
was a theater Dinner show

00:36:38.685 --> 00:36:39.405
was Stampede.

00:36:39.410 --> 00:36:39.820
Definitely.

00:36:41.445 --> 00:36:45.315
So Massage Therapy school during the
day, working at the Stampede at night.

00:36:45.315 --> 00:36:46.365
I was a waiter there.

00:36:47.145 --> 00:36:48.765
They were a huge theater.

00:36:48.765 --> 00:36:48.775
Oh.

00:36:48.775 --> 00:36:48.845
So it was like a dinner show?

00:36:49.395 --> 00:36:50.205
It was a dinner theater.

00:36:50.205 --> 00:36:51.195
Massive dinner theater.

00:36:51.195 --> 00:36:52.755
And it was an equestrian show.

00:36:52.845 --> 00:36:52.905
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah,

00:36:53.445 --> 00:36:54.555
Jason Barrett: it was an equestrian show.

00:36:54.585 --> 00:36:54.825
Yeah.

00:36:55.065 --> 00:36:59.925
They did a north, north versus the
south type of trick riding and flags

00:36:59.925 --> 00:37:01.545
and dance and all kinds of stuff.

00:37:01.975 --> 00:37:03.325
That's, that's the way it ran.

00:37:03.325 --> 00:37:09.865
And, and Sise was a performer in there,
and I, I noticed her very quickly from

00:37:09.865 --> 00:37:12.335
the stands above as she was riding around.

00:37:12.335 --> 00:37:15.965
And so we made our acquaintance
and turned that into a hot and

00:37:15.965 --> 00:37:20.345
heavy eight month romance with,
with our own plans and intentions.

00:37:20.765 --> 00:37:26.435
She had painted the backdrop for an a
seventh generation Italian circus family,

00:37:26.435 --> 00:37:29.800
and was planning to go on the road
with their youngest troops heading out.

00:37:29.895 --> 00:37:33.705
And I had made arrangements in
London to train and travel the world.

00:37:34.125 --> 00:37:38.425
So we took off willing to separate
and leave our lives behind for the new

00:37:38.425 --> 00:37:40.645
lives we had in different directions.

00:37:41.065 --> 00:37:42.355
Different directions, completely.

00:37:42.925 --> 00:37:43.945
So I make it to London.

00:37:43.945 --> 00:37:46.285
And on a payphone I found out
there's a bun in the oven.

00:37:46.855 --> 00:37:50.465
She, we've got a little baby
cooking down there in mama's belly.

00:37:50.945 --> 00:37:54.215
So we had no intention of getting back
together and at the time, you know,

00:37:54.215 --> 00:37:58.565
finding that, that news very striking
and quite uncomfortable considering I'd

00:37:58.565 --> 00:38:01.745
sold my car and moved to, we were gone.

00:38:02.375 --> 00:38:03.365
Total separation.

00:38:03.755 --> 00:38:05.395
So, anyway, it was a tough time.

00:38:05.635 --> 00:38:09.355
Finding that beautiful bit of
information out can sometimes be

00:38:09.355 --> 00:38:10.705
tough and it was tough for us.

00:38:11.135 --> 00:38:14.315
So we didn't want to commit to
each other just because of that.

00:38:14.945 --> 00:38:18.735
We wanted to commit to each other
for the reasons of love and a desire

00:38:18.735 --> 00:38:20.565
to live together and strive for it.

00:38:20.565 --> 00:38:22.095
So we didn't make that
commitment right away.

00:38:22.095 --> 00:38:25.035
But I did return, got
my contract cut short.

00:38:25.125 --> 00:38:29.535
We met each other in Tampa, Florida,
where she was living at the time.

00:38:29.955 --> 00:38:31.005
And that's about it.

00:38:31.005 --> 00:38:33.735
That's pretty much the transition
where we brought it to mobile and

00:38:33.735 --> 00:38:35.295
began building everything we have.

00:38:35.295 --> 00:38:38.475
So we were in Tampa, big
city, not the place for us.

00:38:39.445 --> 00:38:42.895
I knew the connections I had here
in mobile with some incredible

00:38:42.895 --> 00:38:44.125
people and opportunities.

00:38:44.575 --> 00:38:49.405
So I took us, we, we, we sold
everything we had at a yard sale.

00:38:49.405 --> 00:38:50.065
This is fun.

00:38:50.435 --> 00:38:51.845
We made 1300 bucks.

00:38:52.955 --> 00:38:57.035
We had a Honda element that she had
bought on the a earlier before I

00:38:57.065 --> 00:39:01.535
come back from the cruise ship, we
bought a $900 two horse trailer.

00:39:03.365 --> 00:39:07.355
We piled everything we had into the back
of the Honda Element, hooked up a trailer

00:39:07.355 --> 00:39:11.345
and two horses, and drove to mobile
to see what we could do on 1300 bucks.

00:39:11.465 --> 00:39:13.655
So that was the start of our adult life.

00:39:13.655 --> 00:39:13.985
And you with

00:39:13.985 --> 00:39:15.035
Rupert Isaacson: no horse experience,

00:39:15.515 --> 00:39:17.225
Jason Barrett: zero horse
experience whatsoever, but

00:39:17.225 --> 00:39:22.865
Rupert Isaacson: you found yourself
hooked to a very driven and

00:39:22.865 --> 00:39:25.565
organizationally minded, horse person.

00:39:26.585 --> 00:39:28.925
Jason Barrett: Oh yeah, sure, sure.

00:39:28.925 --> 00:39:29.285
I did.

00:39:29.285 --> 00:39:30.155
You know so well.

00:39:31.745 --> 00:39:32.075
Yeah.

00:39:32.225 --> 00:39:33.665
We had a, we had a plan.

00:39:33.665 --> 00:39:34.775
She had everything organized.

00:39:34.775 --> 00:39:37.535
We had, we had no, yeah, not none of that.

00:39:37.535 --> 00:39:38.375
There was no plan.

00:39:38.375 --> 00:39:41.255
We had, as you could tell, the life
just keeps changing from one Yeah.

00:39:41.315 --> 00:39:42.815
Interesting dimension to the next.

00:39:42.815 --> 00:39:45.610
So this was the next,
so I brought her home.

00:39:46.540 --> 00:39:46.880
Rupert Isaacson: Go ahead.

00:39:47.390 --> 00:39:50.015
Also as a, she's, she's
at this stage a performer.

00:39:50.915 --> 00:39:52.085
Equestrian performer.

00:39:52.325 --> 00:39:56.945
Well, that's not gonna happen when
you're pregnant, and it might not happen

00:39:56.975 --> 00:39:58.835
for a while after the baby arrives.

00:39:59.105 --> 00:40:01.535
So what was the plan
economically at that point?

00:40:02.990 --> 00:40:05.750
Jason Barrett: Economically was
come back and I'd work as a massage

00:40:05.750 --> 00:40:07.505
therapist, she'd, we'd get side jobs.

00:40:08.210 --> 00:40:12.170
We had a connection through camp that
was happy to have us come and, and have

00:40:12.170 --> 00:40:14.120
our horses on their property for a while.

00:40:14.270 --> 00:40:16.520
The camp mom came through,
get self established camp,

00:40:16.520 --> 00:40:16.560
came through again, connect.

00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:16.655
Yeah.

00:40:16.655 --> 00:40:17.570
Camp Staple, the horses.

00:40:17.570 --> 00:40:17.780
These,

00:40:17.930 --> 00:40:18.290
yes.

00:40:18.380 --> 00:40:19.040
Absolutely.

00:40:19.040 --> 00:40:19.190
Yeah.

00:40:19.190 --> 00:40:22.640
There was a, one of the old camp moms
that was a mother of one of the guys

00:40:22.640 --> 00:40:24.500
that was same age I was at the time.

00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:26.600
She had a husband that was a horseman.

00:40:26.600 --> 00:40:30.080
They had a property and a farm with plenty
of room and two horses wasn't too much.

00:40:30.620 --> 00:40:34.490
So we came back and knowing nothing, we
pull into the yard at two o'clock in the

00:40:34.490 --> 00:40:38.430
morning way late, you know, about four
or five hours late the first time we met

00:40:38.430 --> 00:40:40.920
'em, you know, in, in 10 years or so.

00:40:41.220 --> 00:40:42.390
That's kind of the way we rolled.

00:40:42.390 --> 00:40:43.500
We had no idea what we were doing.

00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:46.500
We just kept pushing and, and made
it happen and, and found incredible

00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:47.670
people to help us along the way.

00:40:49.620 --> 00:40:52.280
Rupert Isaacson: As you know, if
you followed any of my work, I'm

00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:59.460
an autism dad and we have a whole
career before this podcast in helping

00:40:59.460 --> 00:41:04.180
people with neurodivergence, either
who are professionals in the field.

00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:05.100
Are you a therapist?

00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:06.790
Are you a caregiver?

00:41:07.180 --> 00:41:08.190
Are you a parent?

00:41:08.625 --> 00:41:10.655
Or are you somebody with neurodivergence?

00:41:12.095 --> 00:41:17.035
When my son, Rowan, was
diagnosed with autism in 2004,

00:41:17.075 --> 00:41:18.705
I really didn't know what to do.

00:41:18.905 --> 00:41:24.175
So I reached out for mentorship, and
I found it through an amazing adult

00:41:24.215 --> 00:41:27.015
autistic woman who's very famous, Dr.

00:41:27.165 --> 00:41:28.055
Temple Grandin.

00:41:28.255 --> 00:41:29.895
And she told me what to do.

00:41:29.945 --> 00:41:34.185
And it's been working so
amazingly for the last 20 years.

00:41:34.535 --> 00:41:38.985
That not only is my son basically
independent, but we've helped

00:41:39.245 --> 00:41:42.995
countless, countless thousands
of others reach the same goal.

00:41:43.335 --> 00:41:47.235
Working in schools, working at
home, working in therapy settings.

00:41:48.265 --> 00:41:52.705
If you would like to learn this
cutting edge, neuroscience backed

00:41:52.925 --> 00:41:54.965
approach, it's called Movement Method.

00:41:55.625 --> 00:41:58.982
You can learn it online, you
can learn it very, very simply.

00:41:58.982 --> 00:42:01.245
It's almost laughably simple.

00:42:02.185 --> 00:42:04.885
The important thing is to begin.

00:42:05.815 --> 00:42:08.965
Let yourself be mentored as I was by Dr.

00:42:08.965 --> 00:42:12.255
Grandin and see what results can follow.

00:42:13.285 --> 00:42:16.215
Go to this website, newtrailslearning.

00:42:18.485 --> 00:42:20.990
com Sign up as a gold member.

00:42:21.430 --> 00:42:24.320
Take the online movement method course.

00:42:24.810 --> 00:42:26.180
It's in 40 countries.

00:42:26.790 --> 00:42:28.850
Let us know how it goes for you.

00:42:29.050 --> 00:42:29.820
We really want to know.

00:42:29.830 --> 00:42:34.330
We really want to help people like
me, people like you, out there

00:42:34.680 --> 00:42:37.960
live their best life, to live
free, ride free, see what happens.

00:42:38.950 --> 00:42:39.430
Okay.

00:42:39.520 --> 00:42:41.020
Now I know your daughter Marley.

00:42:41.260 --> 00:42:43.780
And I think we can all agree
that it's a very good thing

00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:45.520
that she came into the world.

00:42:45.550 --> 00:42:47.740
Damns an incredible performer.

00:42:48.835 --> 00:42:49.735
On horseback.

00:42:50.155 --> 00:42:54.325
She's also an incredibly
talented musician.

00:42:55.045 --> 00:43:00.475
And just a general all round, you
know, radically amazing person.

00:43:00.985 --> 00:43:04.015
And of course is a, a big part
of, of your family business.

00:43:05.600 --> 00:43:14.360
How did equestrian chaos begin and how did
you get something that really shouldn't

00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:19.070
be economically viable unless your Dolly
Parton can put a couple of million into

00:43:19.070 --> 00:43:23.210
it and then probably still just walk away
with 1 million of the two that you put in?

00:43:23.630 --> 00:43:26.540
How did this come about and
how did you make it work?

00:43:30.110 --> 00:43:32.930
Jason Barrett: Nothing
happened just from our efforts.

00:43:33.020 --> 00:43:33.950
We've had a great.

00:43:34.445 --> 00:43:38.315
Community of people involved in what
we've done so that there is credit

00:43:38.315 --> 00:43:42.155
to be given and, and making great
relationships, you know, and taking the

00:43:42.155 --> 00:43:45.545
time to care about people enough that
they in turn care about you and that

00:43:45.665 --> 00:43:47.525
it's you, you see purpose together.

00:43:47.915 --> 00:43:50.285
So yeah, between family and
the people have helped grow it.

00:43:50.285 --> 00:43:51.935
That's, that's, that's where that was.

00:43:51.935 --> 00:43:56.405
But equestrian chaos became what
it was actually as a saving.

00:43:56.465 --> 00:43:59.315
I mean, it became the saving
grace of everything we were doing.

00:43:59.315 --> 00:44:04.935
We, we began as Ali's School of Equestrian
Arts before we were a nonprofit.

00:44:05.385 --> 00:44:08.555
And, it started first taking
Kristen to Camp Smile again.

00:44:08.555 --> 00:44:13.085
So when we first moved back to Mobile,
as mentioned, I took her to Camp Smile.

00:44:13.415 --> 00:44:15.995
We had her do some tricks
on her, on her horse.

00:44:16.025 --> 00:44:17.555
Oh, like a performance for
the kids, for the campers.

00:44:17.675 --> 00:44:17.855
Yeah.

00:44:17.855 --> 00:44:20.525
We did a little performance across
the field for the campers, maybe

00:44:20.525 --> 00:44:23.375
three or four runs, doing some
tricks while they were out there.

00:44:23.375 --> 00:44:24.575
They loved it and everything.

00:44:24.905 --> 00:44:26.585
It was, it was a great opportunity.

00:44:26.915 --> 00:44:29.975
It gave me the chance to, to
show her and have my daughter

00:44:29.975 --> 00:44:31.385
in the place that built me.

00:44:31.385 --> 00:44:31.415
Okay.

00:44:31.885 --> 00:44:33.695
So that was a very important moment.

00:44:33.695 --> 00:44:35.165
And then the next year it.

00:44:35.665 --> 00:44:39.145
They were able to leave that
Baptist assembly facility by the

00:44:39.145 --> 00:44:40.735
grace of another family in town.

00:44:40.735 --> 00:44:44.815
The Davis and Debbie Pilot family,
they offered this remarkable campground

00:44:44.815 --> 00:44:46.435
to them and four other camps.

00:44:46.435 --> 00:44:48.925
They're very affluent family here in town.

00:44:48.925 --> 00:44:54.545
And, and they made this new campground
available, 200 acres well built, put

00:44:54.545 --> 00:44:58.455
together everything that you could
need accessible bathhouses, just,

00:44:59.025 --> 00:45:03.405
they sunk a ton of money into making
this beautiful place for these camps.

00:45:03.405 --> 00:45:07.125
And, and that's where we did a lot
of our work for nearly 14 years.

00:45:07.635 --> 00:45:10.705
So, those, those those places were built.

00:45:10.885 --> 00:45:13.605
And then, as, as the camp died off there.

00:45:13.605 --> 00:45:16.895
The the horseback rider, which
this is something we could get into

00:45:16.895 --> 00:45:19.205
too, is horseback camp programs.

00:45:19.205 --> 00:45:20.315
Man, they're tough to run.

00:45:20.915 --> 00:45:23.695
Yeah, they're so the camp was
changing changing properties and

00:45:23.695 --> 00:45:26.635
the, the director of the horseback
program couldn't make it happen.

00:45:27.005 --> 00:45:30.785
So we got the calls Sessie, the mentor
I mentioned before, called me and said,

00:45:30.785 --> 00:45:33.035
Hey, do you think you guys could do this?

00:45:33.065 --> 00:45:34.505
You know, I was like, I'm sure she can.

00:45:34.535 --> 00:45:35.825
I was working somewhere else that time.

00:45:35.825 --> 00:45:38.015
She's capable, she could
do it, you know, I'll help.

00:45:38.495 --> 00:45:41.435
So, and she had had some
relationship and, and interaction

00:45:41.435 --> 00:45:42.975
with the special need population.

00:45:42.975 --> 00:45:47.455
She had a cousin that she grew up with
in the po and so she, she knew, but she

00:45:47.455 --> 00:45:49.765
hadn't had that day to day lifestyle.

00:45:50.380 --> 00:45:53.140
Whatever happens, everything goes,
there's a way to work around it that,

00:45:53.230 --> 00:45:55.030
that I had developed in that area.

00:45:55.030 --> 00:45:56.950
So that worked out really well.

00:45:57.010 --> 00:46:00.010
So we got into, we got
into the program there.

00:46:00.010 --> 00:46:01.090
That's how we started.

00:46:01.600 --> 00:46:06.460
And had no idea about business or the cost
of horsemanship or anything at that point?

00:46:07.330 --> 00:46:08.530
Absolutely no idea.

00:46:08.680 --> 00:46:11.260
No idea which would turn
around to bite us in the ass.

00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:13.120
Big time, a couple years down the road.

00:46:13.600 --> 00:46:13.960
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:14.170
You know,

00:46:16.240 --> 00:46:17.140
how did it turn?

00:46:17.170 --> 00:46:18.280
How did it bite you in the ass?

00:46:19.030 --> 00:46:20.440
Jason Barrett: Well, you
don't know what to expect.

00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.640
You don't know what to ask for
any, any new venture without market

00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:26.110
research and knowing what it is.

00:46:26.110 --> 00:46:30.040
And when you're in such an niche, niche
area, there's not a lot of market research

00:46:30.040 --> 00:46:33.430
for what we would do and how we would
grow that and how it works seasonally.

00:46:33.820 --> 00:46:36.040
What do you do in the off
times and these things?

00:46:36.040 --> 00:46:39.870
So, for an entire week of.

00:46:40.290 --> 00:46:45.060
Programming at a camp where we
would use 15 to 20 horses, we would

00:46:45.060 --> 00:46:50.880
see a hundred special needs or
disabled children or adults per week.

00:46:51.180 --> 00:46:54.600
And we'd go on a mile and a
quarter trail ride around a lake.

00:46:56.070 --> 00:46:57.360
We, we went big.

00:46:57.480 --> 00:46:58.680
I mean, we went really big.

00:46:58.680 --> 00:47:02.310
We gave everything that we had at the
time and that, and that with about

00:47:02.310 --> 00:47:06.180
12 volunteers trained a couple months
beforehand and kept up with throughout

00:47:06.180 --> 00:47:07.290
the year so they know what they're do.

00:47:08.310 --> 00:47:09.870
That was a $3,000 week,

00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:16.320
and it's embarrassing to say that
we thought that could actually work.

00:47:17.430 --> 00:47:20.880
You know, years later we found out we were
actually spending money from our rest of

00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:22.890
our budget just to keep the camps going.

00:47:23.235 --> 00:47:23.525
Yeah.

00:47:23.545 --> 00:47:27.480
I'm sure when we finally learned to,
to count it and ask and count the

00:47:27.570 --> 00:47:31.920
cost and, and look forward we were
like, wow, this is not sustainable.

00:47:32.910 --> 00:47:36.205
That was about the time when we
we're we, but it's also a passion.

00:47:36.930 --> 00:47:38.100
We needed it to happen.

00:47:38.105 --> 00:47:38.385
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:47:38.430 --> 00:47:40.080
And a learning curve and apprenticeship,

00:47:40.170 --> 00:47:41.340
Jason Barrett: learning
curve, all that stuff.

00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:42.900
But it was, it had to happen.

00:47:42.900 --> 00:47:46.110
It was, it was so good, so good at
the place, you know, we're gonna

00:47:46.110 --> 00:47:47.490
keep working and make it happen.

00:47:47.490 --> 00:47:51.090
And we, we negotiated to change things,
but you know, when you come in, you come

00:47:51.090 --> 00:47:55.770
in and it's all for nonprofits and they're
supposed to be nonprofit organizations

00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:57.210
and nobody makes money, right?

00:47:57.210 --> 00:47:59.730
You just falls out of the air
and works in the programs.

00:47:59.730 --> 00:48:02.700
So that's the impression
that a lot of people get.

00:48:03.240 --> 00:48:04.170
But that wasn't the case.

00:48:04.170 --> 00:48:05.340
We were we were running dry.

00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:08.760
We had big programs through the
year where we'd have 50, we'd do a

00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:12.060
spring, winter, and fall session at
home where we had our own therapeutic

00:48:12.060 --> 00:48:13.320
riding program that was running.

00:48:13.350 --> 00:48:20.740
And even with 50 regular students at, at
times, three instructors half of those at

00:48:20.740 --> 00:48:23.410
times were in special needs population.

00:48:24.040 --> 00:48:25.630
We could not make ends meet.

00:48:26.140 --> 00:48:29.680
We were just, the only reason that
we made it work was because of the

00:48:29.680 --> 00:48:33.520
generosity of the family that I mentioned
that gave us a property after seeing

00:48:33.520 --> 00:48:35.440
the work we did at those campgrounds.

00:48:35.800 --> 00:48:35.830
Mm.

00:48:35.890 --> 00:48:37.330
With those populations.

00:48:37.720 --> 00:48:41.170
And seeing, actually seeing equestrian
chaos show our first shows out

00:48:41.170 --> 00:48:44.980
there, he was a horse minded person
and he thought it was incredible.

00:48:44.980 --> 00:48:48.250
He said one of his comments were,
you know, when you're looking to

00:48:48.250 --> 00:48:51.550
invest in something, you want to find
something that you've never seen before.

00:48:52.120 --> 00:48:53.440
You know, that was one
of the things he said.

00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:55.690
And this was something he
definitely never seen before.

00:48:55.690 --> 00:48:59.530
So with the things we had and the
fit, it was absolutely perfect.

00:48:59.530 --> 00:49:03.400
Him and his family offered us this
beautiful property to start our program.

00:49:03.850 --> 00:49:06.550
Eight Stall Barn, beautiful little house.

00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.580
And we lived on that
property raising our family.

00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:14.240
For 12, 12 years we were on that property.

00:49:14.630 --> 00:49:16.010
Amazing opportunity.

00:49:17.105 --> 00:49:18.545
Rupert Isaacson: However, I remember
I visited you on that property.

00:49:18.545 --> 00:49:20.945
Yeah, it was, it was, it was
lovely with the big oaks.

00:49:21.815 --> 00:49:22.235
Jason Barrett: Absolutely.

00:49:22.235 --> 00:49:22.835
Okay.

00:49:22.945 --> 00:49:24.475
Rupert Isaacson: You knew
nothing about horses.

00:49:24.475 --> 00:49:24.745
I know.

00:49:24.745 --> 00:49:29.335
You suddenly go into the specialist end
of professional horsemanship serving

00:49:29.335 --> 00:49:34.525
special needs, which is a specialist thing
that takes lots of training by itself.

00:49:34.525 --> 00:49:41.665
And usually people get into that after
they've already got a couple of days,

00:49:41.695 --> 00:49:44.175
decades of horsemanship under their belt.

00:49:44.635 --> 00:49:46.705
Because as we know, the dangers are huge.

00:49:47.965 --> 00:49:50.155
How did you accelerate that learning curve

00:49:51.985 --> 00:49:52.675
Jason Barrett: experience?

00:49:52.795 --> 00:49:55.375
Well, we went right at the
need was there, and there was

00:49:55.375 --> 00:49:56.635
no one else to fill the need.

00:49:57.245 --> 00:49:58.535
So on the one hand, I guess least

00:49:58.535 --> 00:50:01.475
Rupert Isaacson: your wife could,
could mentor you to a large degree.

00:50:02.315 --> 00:50:06.005
Jason Barrett: She filled the need
for the, she's an incredible horseman.

00:50:06.125 --> 00:50:06.815
I mean, she's, yeah, she

00:50:06.860 --> 00:50:06.980
Rupert Isaacson: is.

00:50:07.385 --> 00:50:09.425
Jason Barrett: She's, she's
been at it for a long time.

00:50:09.425 --> 00:50:11.645
She's passionate, she's
connected to the animals.

00:50:11.645 --> 00:50:15.035
She, she just knows things that
I don't pick up or see 'cause

00:50:15.035 --> 00:50:16.625
of her lifetime of experience.

00:50:16.895 --> 00:50:17.075
Mm-hmm.

00:50:17.105 --> 00:50:18.665
Although I've learned, I learned a lot.

00:50:18.665 --> 00:50:19.895
You know, there's a lot more to learn.

00:50:20.285 --> 00:50:24.125
But yeah, so she, she was all of that,
everything that we needed for horses.

00:50:24.125 --> 00:50:26.255
She could be that we
needed to calm horses.

00:50:26.255 --> 00:50:27.455
We needed rhythmic horses.

00:50:27.455 --> 00:50:30.545
We didn't know at the time, but
the rhythmic horses that we were

00:50:30.735 --> 00:50:33.885
used to training for the, for the
performances and the work we did

00:50:34.285 --> 00:50:39.375
she did was were just right and I
knew how to communicate and to work.

00:50:40.170 --> 00:50:42.990
Very closely with the
community and the family.

00:50:42.990 --> 00:50:48.180
I've had years of over a decade of
experience already in that realm.

00:50:48.180 --> 00:50:48.270
Mm-hmm.

00:50:48.490 --> 00:50:51.580
So the two coming
together was, was perfect.

00:50:51.700 --> 00:50:55.870
And under the, the, like I said, under
the mentorship of CEESI, the director

00:50:55.870 --> 00:51:00.580
of Camp Smile at the time, she brought
Kristen in, and after that first.

00:51:01.180 --> 00:51:04.150
We did a first trial year
just to kind of work with it.

00:51:04.150 --> 00:51:06.910
We'd already been working with
some kids and it went great.

00:51:06.940 --> 00:51:09.010
We had a great summer season with them.

00:51:09.490 --> 00:51:13.350
And then so then she worked it out
with, as the camp had been purchased,

00:51:13.350 --> 00:51:17.340
our, our owned now by United Cerebral
Palsy, she worked out a grant for

00:51:17.340 --> 00:51:20.820
her to go to Equest and trained
in the Path International Program.

00:51:21.270 --> 00:51:21.450
Right.

00:51:21.450 --> 00:51:24.445
That was then it was named something
else, but it's become Path International.

00:51:24.445 --> 00:51:24.655
It's called

00:51:24.655 --> 00:51:25.520
Rupert Isaacson: NARA back then.

00:51:25.520 --> 00:51:25.790
Yeah,

00:51:25.850 --> 00:51:26.150
Jason Barrett: yeah.

00:51:26.150 --> 00:51:27.980
Nara, yeah, that's exactly what it was.

00:51:27.980 --> 00:51:31.760
So that's where she trained other, she
became the first PATH certified instructor

00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:34.280
in Mobile, Alabama when we came back.

00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:34.310
Okay.

00:51:34.700 --> 00:51:35.780
So that's where we started.

00:51:35.780 --> 00:51:37.250
Then she got her credentials there.

00:51:37.580 --> 00:51:39.380
My knowledge was all experiential.

00:51:39.380 --> 00:51:41.180
I, I'd been there, lived there, done that.

00:51:41.180 --> 00:51:46.850
So I was key in training our
people on how to treat the

00:51:46.850 --> 00:51:49.400
population as one of their own.

00:51:49.835 --> 00:51:52.835
You know, there's, you can only go
so far with gloves on, you know?

00:51:53.495 --> 00:51:54.005
Yes.

00:51:54.095 --> 00:51:55.385
You have to be in the mix.

00:51:55.805 --> 00:51:58.325
You know, it only gets so
personable when you're still

00:51:58.325 --> 00:51:59.495
wearing the blue rubber gloves.

00:51:59.495 --> 00:52:03.915
So, you need to know how to talk
and feel and, and help others be

00:52:03.915 --> 00:52:08.205
comfortable around these loud noises or
erratic actions and things like that.

00:52:08.205 --> 00:52:09.645
It's very uncomfortable for people.

00:52:09.945 --> 00:52:13.155
I didn't know that because I
grew up as a child engulfing, you

00:52:13.155 --> 00:52:15.105
know, there's drool falling on me.

00:52:15.405 --> 00:52:18.705
We gotta clean up a diaper, somebody
laugh because, I mean, it didn't matter

00:52:18.795 --> 00:52:22.695
to me, which was, which was something
I had to learn that it really didn't

00:52:22.695 --> 00:52:24.225
matter to a lot of other people.

00:52:24.225 --> 00:52:26.355
Those things kind of set
'em back a little bit.

00:52:26.625 --> 00:52:29.565
Rupert Isaacson: I, with all my
experience with autism and so on, I

00:52:29.565 --> 00:52:33.075
still shy away, you know, if I never
see another diaper in my life, I'm,

00:52:33.620 --> 00:52:33.960
Jason Barrett: I'm good.

00:52:34.220 --> 00:52:34.635
I'm good.

00:52:34.725 --> 00:52:35.865
Hey, look, I'm fine with that too.

00:52:36.465 --> 00:52:37.215
Don't get me wrong.

00:52:37.305 --> 00:52:41.865
I'm not signing up for diaper change, but
if it's gotta be done, we'll get it done.

00:52:42.225 --> 00:52:42.705
Yeah.

00:52:43.905 --> 00:52:44.555
So, yeah, that was it.

00:52:44.555 --> 00:52:46.755
So we came back, we
started the program there.

00:52:47.595 --> 00:52:48.885
Running our program at home.

00:52:48.885 --> 00:52:52.575
We were not making ends meet though
we were making enough to survive.

00:52:52.905 --> 00:52:52.995
Hmm.

00:52:52.995 --> 00:52:55.095
It's kind of like the, you
know, it's the, the blessing

00:52:55.095 --> 00:52:56.565
and the curse, the golden egg.

00:52:57.075 --> 00:53:01.185
You know, if it's always there,
do you have the drive to strive

00:53:01.185 --> 00:53:03.135
further than, than what's set?

00:53:03.345 --> 00:53:07.865
So we had that beautiful place
to, to be provided for us.

00:53:08.345 --> 00:53:12.425
It made all of our budgeting make
believe, you know, in the real world.

00:53:12.615 --> 00:53:14.265
So we had to adjust for that.

00:53:14.265 --> 00:53:19.395
And then when we started to try and adjust
costs and pricing from that to try to be,

00:53:19.425 --> 00:53:21.465
there was no chance to bridge that gap.

00:53:21.945 --> 00:53:22.965
So we were pretty close.

00:53:22.965 --> 00:53:27.235
And then then the COVID, the COVID
came, ah, that was our big switch up.

00:53:27.535 --> 00:53:29.005
That really switched things for us.

00:53:30.295 --> 00:53:30.985
Rupert Isaacson: So what happened?

00:53:30.985 --> 00:53:31.495
What did you do?

00:53:32.275 --> 00:53:33.715
Because the whole business
must have collapsed.

00:53:33.715 --> 00:53:33.985
Yeah.

00:53:34.735 --> 00:53:35.545
Jason Barrett: Yeah, it was huge.

00:53:35.545 --> 00:53:40.015
I mean, all, most of our programming
was large group oriented programming.

00:53:40.105 --> 00:53:43.675
You know, we couldn't be in large
groups anymore, so we lost all of our

00:53:43.675 --> 00:53:48.805
spring and fall camps all of our summer
camp programming and all in all, and

00:53:49.235 --> 00:53:54.785
over three years, we, we, we ended up
operating at a third of our budget,

00:53:55.595 --> 00:54:00.395
which if we were not in that home,
there would've been, it was done deal.

00:54:00.395 --> 00:54:02.615
And it was close to the
point of being a done deal.

00:54:03.215 --> 00:54:05.695
As nothing was coming online fast enough.

00:54:05.695 --> 00:54:07.705
The horses gotta stay, keep eating.

00:54:07.705 --> 00:54:11.005
We've got 10 horses at the
time, 10, 12 horses at the time.

00:54:11.645 --> 00:54:12.455
So that was tough.

00:54:12.455 --> 00:54:16.915
We were still doing, so 2019, we did our
last as I mentioned, e equestrian chaos

00:54:16.915 --> 00:54:21.325
was the fundraiser, backyard fundraiser
for our therapeutic riding school.

00:54:21.325 --> 00:54:23.545
We'd make, you know, a thousand dollars.

00:54:23.545 --> 00:54:23.980
What did you

00:54:23.980 --> 00:54:25.100
Rupert Isaacson: do in this
backyard fundraiser, because this

00:54:25.405 --> 00:54:28.225
has gone on to become a huge show.

00:54:28.375 --> 00:54:28.705
So

00:54:28.705 --> 00:54:29.095
Jason Barrett: yeah,

00:54:29.245 --> 00:54:29.900
Rupert Isaacson: tell us about this.

00:54:30.625 --> 00:54:32.605
Backyard fundraiser, sequestering chaos,

00:54:33.545 --> 00:54:36.155
Jason Barrett: Paper mache masks
and kids hopping around over

00:54:36.155 --> 00:54:38.075
each other's back at, at a camp.

00:54:38.075 --> 00:54:40.325
That's just the silliest
little playful thing.

00:54:40.695 --> 00:54:43.365
Introducing horses for those
who could start to ride.

00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:48.525
And, and eventually we, we have a
team of, you know, at our biggest

00:54:48.525 --> 00:54:54.515
show, 15, 15 to 16 members on the
stage, and half of those are part of

00:54:54.635 --> 00:54:56.405
our rr Therapeutic writing students.

00:54:56.405 --> 00:54:58.055
So we, it began very slow.

00:54:58.055 --> 00:55:03.175
It was like a, it was the it was the, the
fun and excitement of the do good work

00:55:03.175 --> 00:55:07.375
that kept, kept people coming back, you
know, for more so our, our volunteers.

00:55:07.375 --> 00:55:07.735
Would you putting

00:55:07.735 --> 00:55:14.105
Rupert Isaacson: special needs kids into
an equestrian circus performance many

00:55:14.105 --> 00:55:15.605
people would say this can't be done.

00:55:16.445 --> 00:55:18.785
Others would say it's too dangerous.

00:55:19.245 --> 00:55:21.225
How did you do it and
how did you do it safely?

00:55:22.080 --> 00:55:23.610
Jason Barrett: My wife
is incredible for one.

00:55:23.610 --> 00:55:26.880
So she, she, she did a
lot working together.

00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:28.020
You just take your time.

00:55:28.020 --> 00:55:30.000
It's little steps, baby steps.

00:55:30.060 --> 00:55:34.320
So, for instance, we have one of our
students was autistic and he was he

00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:38.010
is, he is a hitter or runner, you
know, he likes to, likes to smack

00:55:38.010 --> 00:55:39.360
and get out of the way at times.

00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:41.130
Lash out and then un split.

00:55:41.190 --> 00:55:42.720
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:55:42.810 --> 00:55:44.005
It's quick shot and then gone.

00:55:44.370 --> 00:55:46.710
And the man, he talk about a
runner, man, you gotta, you

00:55:46.710 --> 00:55:47.670
gotta work, catch that dude.

00:55:48.120 --> 00:55:51.480
But that we would work at time, you'd
find something he liked, you'd find

00:55:51.660 --> 00:55:53.040
he happened to like hot Cheetos.

00:55:53.460 --> 00:55:58.050
So we'd sit him on a horse and hold out a
bag of hot Cheetos and he'd reach down low

00:55:58.050 --> 00:56:02.310
and start to work on the, the abdominal
side muscles to worry about actually

00:56:02.310 --> 00:56:05.700
being able to stand up on a moving
horse and move his leg off the saddle.

00:56:05.970 --> 00:56:08.010
Lots of little baby steps starting at

00:56:08.640 --> 00:56:09.150
Rupert Isaacson: And what
did you eventually get him?

00:56:09.150 --> 00:56:10.440
What did you eventually get him doing?

00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:12.870
Jason Barrett: He did,
he performed in the show.

00:56:12.870 --> 00:56:16.020
He was in our last performance
he was standing on the horse in

00:56:16.020 --> 00:56:17.190
what they call the Hippodrome.

00:56:17.190 --> 00:56:21.540
So he is standing on the, on the
shoulders of the horse, is feeding some

00:56:21.540 --> 00:56:26.940
straps tall above the sky in a full
extension with lights and sound and

00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:28.365
everything jamming around the arena.

00:56:28.365 --> 00:56:28.860
The horse going in a

00:56:28.860 --> 00:56:29.250
Rupert Isaacson: run

00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:31.350
Jason Barrett: in a run
in a circle around you.

00:56:31.350 --> 00:56:31.410
Be

00:56:31.410 --> 00:56:31.980
Rupert Isaacson: incredible.

00:56:32.370 --> 00:56:33.900
Jason Barrett: And this is
someone who's barely verbal.

00:56:34.620 --> 00:56:35.520
He's nonverbal.

00:56:35.520 --> 00:56:37.050
Yeah, absolutely nonverbal.

00:56:37.230 --> 00:56:38.190
It's certainly incredible.

00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:39.570
Even I is

00:56:39.570 --> 00:56:41.880
Rupert Isaacson: a special needs
dad who runs equestrian programs.

00:56:42.300 --> 00:56:42.660
Jason Barrett: Yeah.

00:56:43.090 --> 00:56:46.570
Rupert Isaacson: Looking on
in impressed, flabbergasted.

00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:47.020
Yeah.

00:56:47.890 --> 00:56:48.655
You guys could do.

00:56:48.700 --> 00:56:52.810
I remember when I brought Rowan,
my son out to you guys in 2019.

00:56:53.290 --> 00:56:56.215
And Ali and the team Brooke,
you know, is also part of

00:56:56.215 --> 00:56:57.445
your team who's so incredible.

00:56:57.805 --> 00:56:58.825
Shout out to Brooke.

00:56:58.935 --> 00:57:00.885
I had my son standing up.

00:57:01.845 --> 00:57:02.655
On the back of a horse.

00:57:02.655 --> 00:57:05.775
And this is a, despite the fact
that, you know, he's grown up

00:57:05.775 --> 00:57:13.305
with horses around me, he has the
normal sort of autistic anxiety.

00:57:13.660 --> 00:57:14.080
Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.

00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:14.170
Mm-hmm.

00:57:14.775 --> 00:57:19.755
Rupert Isaacson: And but the little
micro structured micro steps that

00:57:20.445 --> 00:57:27.375
Sise and Brooke took him through, and
then the absolute rock solid training

00:57:27.375 --> 00:57:31.185
that was in that horse, that there
was just no question in anyone's mind

00:57:31.185 --> 00:57:32.655
that one could trust this animal.

00:57:33.525 --> 00:57:37.725
Was like something I, you know,
I, I, I travel in 40 countries

00:57:37.725 --> 00:57:39.585
doing trainings all the time.

00:57:39.795 --> 00:57:41.505
You just don't see this, you know.

00:57:42.285 --> 00:57:45.240
Jason Barrett: We're aware now, you
know, it's, it's always that adage, you,

00:57:45.245 --> 00:57:47.955
you, you don't, you can't see yourself,
you don't see your children grow up.

00:57:47.955 --> 00:57:48.705
They're right there with you.

00:57:48.705 --> 00:57:49.725
All of a sudden they're grown up.

00:57:49.725 --> 00:57:51.435
It's the same thing
with this type of work.

00:57:51.435 --> 00:57:55.575
It's, for us, it is so
normal and so possible.

00:57:55.605 --> 00:57:58.455
It's hard to imagine someone
thinking it's not possible.

00:57:58.575 --> 00:57:58.725
Yeah.

00:57:58.795 --> 00:58:01.705
Which, which is, you know, a different,
it's hard to see both sides of that

00:58:01.705 --> 00:58:04.985
coin, you know, when you've already
been to this side of it's just a

00:58:04.985 --> 00:58:09.005
matter of slow steps and, and taking
your time and following their lead.

00:58:09.005 --> 00:58:11.435
Much like you've learned
in all of your work.

00:58:11.435 --> 00:58:13.355
It's all about following them.

00:58:13.685 --> 00:58:14.105
Rupert Isaacson: It is and

00:58:14.105 --> 00:58:17.435
Jason Barrett: following, finding who
they are and what they're attracted to

00:58:17.435 --> 00:58:19.025
Rupert Isaacson: following
their and for us, their passion.

00:58:19.145 --> 00:58:19.565
Yeah.

00:58:19.570 --> 00:58:19.730
Jason Barrett: Yeah.

00:58:19.865 --> 00:58:23.110
You gotta have their passion and, and,
and it's got to it's got to engage them.

00:58:23.780 --> 00:58:24.740
It has to engage them.

00:58:24.740 --> 00:58:28.400
And what we found a lot of times in
our ther therapeutic writing program

00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:32.030
is that, yeah, we'd be good for a
few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe

00:58:32.030 --> 00:58:37.100
even a whole year, but eventually it
wasn't enough to keep them engaged.

00:58:37.100 --> 00:58:39.260
Some, some could do the same
thing over and over forever.

00:58:39.350 --> 00:58:39.470
Yeah.

00:58:39.470 --> 00:58:44.200
But many would lose interest, or
especially if they were on the autism

00:58:44.200 --> 00:58:49.300
spectrum or, or a DHD really high, high
functioning, high energy, you know,

00:58:49.450 --> 00:58:51.250
those people needed something more.

00:58:51.735 --> 00:58:52.575
I some agree.

00:58:52.600 --> 00:58:55.690
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, one, one
of the difficulties that I so often

00:58:55.690 --> 00:58:59.560
encounter with the whole therapeutic
writing thing is that it's, it's boring.

00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:01.570
You know, it's, it's dumbed down.

00:59:01.570 --> 00:59:05.080
I mean, who wants to be led
around in circles slowly,

00:59:05.950 --> 00:59:06.190
Jason Barrett: right.

00:59:06.220 --> 00:59:08.620
Rupert Isaacson: For
more than a few times.

00:59:09.130 --> 00:59:09.430
Jason Barrett: Right.

00:59:09.820 --> 00:59:12.250
Rupert Isaacson: And then if it's not
gonna develop into anything, well,

00:59:12.250 --> 00:59:14.530
yeah, you're probably gonna let it go.

00:59:14.530 --> 00:59:16.000
And then, you know, the work we do with.

00:59:17.005 --> 00:59:18.325
Veterans and so on.

00:59:18.325 --> 00:59:22.375
And you know, you get someone back
from ex special forces guy back

00:59:22.375 --> 00:59:26.485
from a hot zone and you tell him
to put a helmet on for safety.

00:59:26.610 --> 00:59:27.475
Yeah, yeah.

00:59:27.595 --> 00:59:32.845
And lead him or her around in
a slow circle and they're just

00:59:33.205 --> 00:59:34.525
laughing at you, you know?

00:59:34.525 --> 00:59:35.245
It only goes so

00:59:35.245 --> 00:59:36.235
Jason Barrett: far like no wife.

00:59:38.875 --> 00:59:39.235
Yeah.

00:59:39.235 --> 00:59:41.115
That's, that's, that's
that's the way it is.

00:59:41.115 --> 00:59:45.315
I think that people intend well but
there's another horrible consequence of it

00:59:45.315 --> 00:59:47.415
being boring is that the horses get bored.

00:59:47.775 --> 00:59:49.755
Rupert Isaacson: As you may know,
if you've been following my work,

00:59:49.785 --> 00:59:52.185
we are also horsey folk here.

00:59:52.690 --> 00:59:57.180
And we have been training horses for
many, many years in the manner of

00:59:57.230 --> 01:00:00.390
the old classical dressage masters.

01:00:00.820 --> 01:00:03.610
This is something which is
often very confusing for people.

01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:09.000
We shine a light on that murky, difficult
stuff and make it crystal clear.

01:00:09.260 --> 01:00:14.090
If you'd like to learn to train your
horse in the manner of the old masters and

01:00:14.090 --> 01:00:19.890
really have fun and joy for you and your
equine, go to our website, heliosharmony.

01:00:19.890 --> 01:00:22.220
com Sign up as a premium member.

01:00:22.540 --> 01:00:26.550
and begin to take the Helios Harmony
course, which will take you from zero

01:00:27.020 --> 01:00:32.150
to the Piaf, where the horse is dancing
on the spot in hand on the ground.

01:00:32.740 --> 01:00:36.450
And then from there, you can
develop out to anywhere you want to.

01:00:37.410 --> 01:00:38.150
Heliosharmony.

01:00:38.660 --> 01:00:42.330
com to unlock the secrets
of the old masters.

01:00:42.735 --> 01:00:42.855
Jason Barrett: They do.

01:00:42.855 --> 01:00:46.005
I mean, the horses lose
enthusiasm as well.

01:00:46.245 --> 01:00:47.955
These are living creatures just like us.

01:00:47.955 --> 01:00:49.935
They gotta have a purpose
and a reason as well.

01:00:49.935 --> 01:00:52.875
And, and if you live with them enough,
you actually know that firsthand.

01:00:52.875 --> 01:00:53.115
Yeah.

01:00:53.425 --> 01:00:54.955
So for us.

01:00:55.330 --> 01:00:56.740
I mean, without our herd.

01:00:56.830 --> 01:01:01.480
I mean, fortunately Kristen is an
incredible horse person, and she had that

01:01:01.510 --> 01:01:06.750
training for the type of circus riding
the rhythmic movement of the horse that is

01:01:06.750 --> 01:01:10.980
required to accomplish all the other feats
that you would see them do on a stage.

01:01:11.940 --> 01:01:15.840
Was just the basic, you know, we came
here and put a, put a hay ground, hay

01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:20.010
hay ringing on the ground and we're free
lunging horses in a hay ringing out there.

01:01:20.310 --> 01:01:23.420
And everyone in town
is like, what the hell?

01:01:23.780 --> 01:01:24.740
How do you do that?

01:01:25.100 --> 01:01:27.680
Why is your horse not jumping
out of the hay ringing or

01:01:27.680 --> 01:01:28.970
stepping over the hay ringing?

01:01:28.970 --> 01:01:30.830
And it, and for me not being
a horsepower, I didn't know

01:01:30.830 --> 01:01:31.700
what they were talking about.

01:01:31.700 --> 01:01:34.340
I didn't know you had to have a
round pin with walls and panels.

01:01:34.340 --> 01:01:36.140
I was like, our horses
do that in this circle.

01:01:36.140 --> 01:01:36.980
It is perfectly fine.

01:01:37.370 --> 01:01:39.680
So there is a measure of
training that matters.

01:01:39.680 --> 01:01:42.320
You know, we, we, yeah, we
have, they were just incredible.

01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:46.280
She did a wonderful job with our legacy
herd, that first one that started us.

01:01:46.730 --> 01:01:48.470
It's so sad watching them.

01:01:48.470 --> 01:01:52.070
It's sad and fulfilling watching
them move into the retirement life.

01:01:52.070 --> 01:01:55.580
'cause we're at that point where we're
transitioning to the next herd and Yeah.

01:01:55.580 --> 01:01:57.740
And the work that they've
done was just incredible.

01:01:57.770 --> 01:01:59.180
Without the horses, there's nothing.

01:01:59.185 --> 01:01:59.595
There was

01:01:59.595 --> 01:01:59.955
Rupert Isaacson: nothing.

01:01:59.960 --> 01:02:00.230
No.

01:02:00.230 --> 01:02:02.240
A hundred, I wholeheartedly agree.

01:02:02.270 --> 01:02:05.000
But yet the skill levels are insane.

01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.770
So just for, to paint a picture
for listeners and viewers.

01:02:10.430 --> 01:02:13.850
When you go and see an equestrian
chaos show, and I think you might

01:02:13.850 --> 01:02:20.570
wanna Google equestrian chaos, what
you're gonna see is badass shit.

01:02:21.110 --> 01:02:28.030
You're gonna see this team of expert
girl riders doing mounted archery,

01:02:28.810 --> 01:02:37.150
but really difficult mounted archery
while in the craziest positions

01:02:37.540 --> 01:02:39.820
on running horses accurately.

01:02:39.970 --> 01:02:44.170
And then you're gonna see them pull
all kinds of stunts that are incredibly

01:02:44.170 --> 01:02:45.430
dangerous in life threatening.

01:02:45.430 --> 01:02:48.640
And yet you're gonna see them Roman
riding, standing on the back of two

01:02:48.640 --> 01:02:50.790
horses doing extraordinary things.

01:02:50.790 --> 01:02:55.320
And then you're gonna see them bringing
special needs people into the show.

01:02:56.310 --> 01:02:57.240
It's a mindblower.

01:02:58.200 --> 01:03:02.250
And one of the things which has
been so rewarding for me, kind of

01:03:02.250 --> 01:03:04.230
cheering you guys from the sidelines.

01:03:05.010 --> 01:03:09.700
I'm sort of feel like a bit of a little
cheerleader with my pompoms is you've

01:03:09.700 --> 01:03:17.560
now achieved this level of success where
you travel nationally with this show as

01:03:17.560 --> 01:03:20.920
well as maintaining this program at home.

01:03:21.340 --> 01:03:27.310
How did it, how did it transform
from this backyard of, I know

01:03:27.310 --> 01:03:29.350
COVID happened, you had to rethink.

01:03:30.370 --> 01:03:30.490
Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.

01:03:30.915 --> 01:03:31.735
Rupert Isaacson: But that was it.

01:03:32.470 --> 01:03:37.600
But you suddenly achieved a kind
of level of success, which many

01:03:37.600 --> 01:03:40.390
aspire to, I think, but few achieve.

01:03:40.435 --> 01:03:41.980
Well, how did you, how did you do it?

01:03:43.095 --> 01:03:45.670
Jason Barrett: I, I, you have
to venture outside of your

01:03:45.670 --> 01:03:47.110
comfort zone and where you start.

01:03:47.110 --> 01:03:47.620
For sure.

01:03:47.860 --> 01:03:48.975
Well, indeed, but give

01:03:48.975 --> 01:03:49.025
Rupert Isaacson: us, give

01:03:49.025 --> 01:03:50.410
Jason Barrett: us, that's
a big part actually.

01:03:50.410 --> 01:03:51.040
How, so?

01:03:51.040 --> 01:03:55.840
The reason where that matters is
that we didn't know what we had here.

01:03:56.860 --> 01:04:01.720
We didn't know how spectacular what
we were doing was, we really didn't.

01:04:02.620 --> 01:04:06.970
We knew it was great, but we grew it
around our family and friends who just

01:04:06.970 --> 01:04:09.640
saw, oh, that's what you do, you know,
that's what you're doing out there.

01:04:09.640 --> 01:04:12.520
You know, so there's a girl hanging
upside down from one foot, shooting

01:04:12.520 --> 01:04:13.540
a bow and hitting the target.

01:04:13.720 --> 01:04:15.070
Well, you know, they do that all the time.

01:04:15.340 --> 01:04:19.240
So this was our back, this was our
everyday life and everyone that we knew

01:04:19.240 --> 01:04:25.670
in this small town of 200,000 that that
would be around to see it, there was

01:04:25.670 --> 01:04:27.620
no real growth or excitement there.

01:04:28.520 --> 01:04:31.970
The minute COVID hit and we
had to shut down our programs

01:04:31.970 --> 01:04:33.320
with the therapeutic writing.

01:04:33.770 --> 01:04:37.370
We took our act to a circus as an act.

01:04:37.850 --> 01:04:40.340
We put it in the show, and then from.

01:04:40.910 --> 01:04:42.620
A real performance audience.

01:04:42.620 --> 01:04:46.850
An audience who came for paid
professional performances, they went nuts.

01:04:47.300 --> 01:04:49.280
You know, they thought it
was absolutely incredible.

01:04:49.650 --> 01:04:52.440
The performers we were working with,
they thought it was incredible.

01:04:52.530 --> 01:04:55.320
They, you know, it was like
we pulled things off that they

01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:56.280
didn't think would happen.

01:04:56.280 --> 01:04:58.860
If something looked like it was
going to go wrong, it was fixed.

01:04:58.860 --> 01:05:03.720
You know, we're very, we run a tight
ship, aside from the chaos in the name

01:05:03.940 --> 01:05:06.250
we expect our show to be like clockwork.

01:05:06.250 --> 01:05:07.210
We're gonna, yeah.

01:05:07.210 --> 01:05:07.720
The chaos

01:05:07.720 --> 01:05:09.670
Rupert Isaacson: comes from the, the
audience sitting on the edge of their

01:05:09.670 --> 01:05:12.520
seat, you know, expecting a wreck.

01:05:13.210 --> 01:05:14.800
Jason Barrett: They don't know
what they're about to see it.

01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:15.580
No one knows it.

01:05:15.730 --> 01:05:19.210
We've found on the road that even if
you go, so we're online everywhere.

01:05:19.240 --> 01:05:21.280
Equestrian, chaos equestrian chaos.com

01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:22.030
is our website.

01:05:22.030 --> 01:05:25.810
We've got a video, talks about our
family and some really cool vi There's

01:05:25.810 --> 01:05:29.290
lots of stuff out there, but traveling
around the country, we've come to find

01:05:29.290 --> 01:05:34.370
that at any location we go to, it's
a two to three year lull before they

01:05:34.370 --> 01:05:36.410
actually figure out what the hell they're

01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:37.580
on

01:05:37.580 --> 01:05:38.060
the stage.

01:05:38.300 --> 01:05:39.890
So we'll have, it's been really exciting.

01:05:39.890 --> 01:05:43.710
This in our third year in some of
our locations, people are showing up.

01:05:43.710 --> 01:05:47.340
So we'll do a series of two to
four shows a day depending on what

01:05:47.340 --> 01:05:48.720
we're, what we're engaged with.

01:05:49.200 --> 01:05:52.140
And that first show is
generally lagging a little bit.

01:05:52.500 --> 01:05:53.340
But not anymore.

01:05:53.490 --> 01:05:56.910
Now people know who we are and we're
showing up at the very first show.

01:05:56.910 --> 01:06:00.420
They're just packed out with people
and, and they, they've come to see it.

01:06:00.420 --> 01:06:01.230
So it's really neat.

01:06:01.230 --> 01:06:04.770
So in that vein, while we were home,
you got, there was none of that.

01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:05.400
Yeah.

01:06:05.400 --> 01:06:07.470
The minute we went out to
the circus, we heard that.

01:06:07.470 --> 01:06:08.970
We're like, wow, that's something.

01:06:09.690 --> 01:06:11.800
Then we got a job for
the, somebody called us.

01:06:12.150 --> 01:06:13.410
We got a job for another fair.

01:06:13.410 --> 01:06:16.200
We went and tried that blew their minds.

01:06:16.200 --> 01:06:18.080
That's when we had I think
that was the first one.

01:06:18.080 --> 01:06:21.080
We had a lady walk up to the
side of the arena after the show.

01:06:22.010 --> 01:06:25.970
And she was in her seventies
and she was, she was a stout

01:06:25.970 --> 01:06:27.830
woman, an intimidating woman.

01:06:27.830 --> 01:06:29.540
Like she could probably whoop my ass.

01:06:29.540 --> 01:06:33.845
And and she had a grimace on her
face and she came to the rail and,

01:06:33.905 --> 01:06:37.355
and she was already tearing up,
like trying to hold her grimace

01:06:37.355 --> 01:06:39.125
for some reason, but still crying.

01:06:39.425 --> 01:06:41.795
And she said she said you guys.

01:06:42.155 --> 01:06:45.785
Have just put on display
for me, a 70 year dream.

01:06:46.355 --> 01:06:50.555
I was the first woman to ever compete in
the United States and mounted horseback

01:06:50.555 --> 01:06:52.835
archery when they didn't want us to ride.

01:06:53.495 --> 01:06:56.765
And what you just did, as she's
crying the whole time and I'm

01:06:56.765 --> 01:06:58.865
like, damn, I had no idea.

01:06:59.105 --> 01:07:02.075
You know, that's the connection
I'm used to because of our life

01:07:02.075 --> 01:07:03.335
with the work and the population.

01:07:03.335 --> 01:07:03.725
We'll win.

01:07:03.815 --> 01:07:06.305
You, you get to feel heart very often.

01:07:06.515 --> 01:07:06.845
Mm-hmm.

01:07:06.895 --> 01:07:08.905
In that population, when
you give, you get it.

01:07:09.715 --> 01:07:12.565
And so this was that under
this new circumstance.

01:07:12.565 --> 01:07:18.235
So for me that was a big
moment big moment to credibly.

01:07:19.195 --> 01:07:21.445
I don't know, just to impress on me how.

01:07:22.285 --> 01:07:26.525
This can affect people, how people
can take this art so deeply and

01:07:26.525 --> 01:07:30.545
now since then, hundreds of other
conversations similar to that children

01:07:30.545 --> 01:07:34.655
just in awe and inspired to see you
little girls looking at my daughter

01:07:34.995 --> 01:07:36.975
out there absolutely killing it.

01:07:37.155 --> 01:07:39.465
Thinking that, Hey, I
could do that serious.

01:07:39.465 --> 01:07:39.525
Yeah.

01:07:40.155 --> 01:07:43.875
She's a role model for, you know,
it's like, it's, it's just what a

01:07:43.875 --> 01:07:44.985
life, you know, what a life, yeah.

01:07:45.100 --> 01:07:45.220
In,

01:07:45.225 --> 01:07:47.295
Rupert Isaacson: in terms of female
empowerment, you know, because I

01:07:47.295 --> 01:07:51.585
don't think you guys ever really
started it with that in mind.

01:07:51.585 --> 01:07:55.515
I think it's just, if can correct
me if I'm wrong, but it was just

01:07:55.515 --> 01:07:59.530
that those, that was the team you
decided get, there's more horse.

01:07:59.890 --> 01:08:02.175
It could have just as easily
been some boys in the team.

01:08:02.175 --> 01:08:04.965
It just happened not to be, but I
think you guys have become a bit

01:08:04.965 --> 01:08:07.215
of an icon of female empowerment.

01:08:08.415 --> 01:08:08.625
Jason Barrett: Yeah.

01:08:08.625 --> 01:08:09.915
It's, it's it's exciting.

01:08:09.915 --> 01:08:11.355
I mean, it's my, my.

01:08:11.835 --> 01:08:13.275
My wife and my daughter out there.

01:08:13.275 --> 01:08:15.045
And Brooke, as you mentioned Brooke Barre.

01:08:15.165 --> 01:08:17.415
She leads our therapeutic
writing programming.

01:08:17.415 --> 01:08:17.745
Now.

01:08:17.745 --> 01:08:20.895
She's a, a graduate of the
University of South Alabama.

01:08:20.895 --> 01:08:23.225
She's going into this
therapeutic sports recreation.

01:08:23.225 --> 01:08:23.315
Mm-hmm.

01:08:23.675 --> 01:08:26.555
So she could continue this
work from a preteen years.

01:08:26.555 --> 01:08:27.215
I need question,

01:08:27.515 --> 01:08:29.195
Rupert Isaacson: Equine Assisted
World podcast, actually.

01:08:29.195 --> 01:08:30.115
I think yeah.

01:08:30.130 --> 01:08:30.310
Yeah.

01:08:30.340 --> 01:08:30.760
She's,

01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:32.230
Jason Barrett: she's
just a beautiful person.

01:08:32.230 --> 01:08:38.750
But to see her out there my wife and
my daughter feeling that, and then

01:08:38.780 --> 01:08:42.800
having the background of working with
her and seeing the need in the world

01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:46.820
from people and being willing to share
that, it's a different, it's just

01:08:46.820 --> 01:08:48.260
we've got a different thing going.

01:08:48.590 --> 01:08:51.200
You know, there's, there's
something, it's not just performance.

01:08:51.200 --> 01:08:55.280
There's a whole lot of heart behind it
that's been built for decades, you know?

01:08:55.280 --> 01:08:55.850
Well, naturally,

01:08:55.850 --> 01:08:56.120
Rupert Isaacson: because,

01:08:56.120 --> 01:08:56.300
Jason Barrett: I mean,

01:08:56.300 --> 01:08:57.110
Rupert Isaacson: you've
got, it's really neat.

01:08:57.110 --> 01:09:00.470
You've got, you know, you talked
about this one autistic boy,

01:09:00.500 --> 01:09:03.350
getting him to be standing up on the
running horse and pulling stunts.

01:09:03.590 --> 01:09:07.310
I remember seeing at your show, which
you were actually still running as

01:09:07.310 --> 01:09:09.020
a backyard fundraiser at that point.

01:09:09.590 --> 01:09:14.520
Tim, the the, the, the African
American young man who had

01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.140
the traumatic brain injury.

01:09:16.770 --> 01:09:25.570
And I, I watched you guys able to get him
up in a Viking costume able to handle and

01:09:25.570 --> 01:09:29.080
act with the staff and the, and the spear.

01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:30.040
Jason Barrett: Yeah.

01:09:30.670 --> 01:09:30.790
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:09:30.790 --> 01:09:31.060
He's an

01:09:31.060 --> 01:09:33.130
Jason Barrett: incredible
character, incredible guy.

01:09:33.135 --> 01:09:35.875
We we love him and, and hopefully
with the soundtrack of a rap

01:09:35.875 --> 01:09:36.490
Rupert Isaacson: song that he had written,

01:09:37.430 --> 01:09:37.650
Jason Barrett: he

01:09:37.650 --> 01:09:38.250
Rupert Isaacson: had written Right.

01:09:38.965 --> 01:09:42.145
You know, people just don't
do this kind of thing.

01:09:42.235 --> 01:09:43.135
You talk about heart.

01:09:43.135 --> 01:09:44.035
Yeah, absolutely.

01:09:44.145 --> 01:09:45.855
Alright, so just backtrack a little bit.

01:09:45.885 --> 01:09:50.535
So you said COVID hit the it
for a while, the therapeutic.

01:09:51.255 --> 01:09:52.275
Program collapsed.

01:09:52.385 --> 01:09:53.465
You've since rebuilt it.

01:09:53.465 --> 01:09:53.945
Clearly.

01:09:54.455 --> 01:09:55.925
Jason Barrett: We never,
it never collapsed.

01:09:55.925 --> 01:09:55.955
Okay.

01:09:56.015 --> 01:09:58.295
It just shrunk to much smaller measures.

01:09:58.295 --> 01:09:58.715
We have.

01:09:58.895 --> 01:10:02.795
I mean, we've got kids that have been with
us since they were in preschool, you know?

01:10:02.795 --> 01:10:02.885
Oh yeah.

01:10:02.885 --> 01:10:06.245
One of our girls is a professor
now at the University of Florida.

01:10:06.755 --> 01:10:06.815
Wow.

01:10:06.815 --> 01:10:09.155
Know who started in our, in our program.

01:10:09.155 --> 01:10:11.825
So we, we don't wanna lose anybody.

01:10:11.825 --> 01:10:13.895
So a few of those people
that, so here's question,

01:10:14.010 --> 01:10:15.965
Rupert Isaacson: but, but you
said you, you had to rethink.

01:10:15.995 --> 01:10:16.475
Okay.

01:10:16.745 --> 01:10:16.865
Mm-hmm.

01:10:17.335 --> 01:10:19.465
And you say you, you went to a circus.

01:10:19.465 --> 01:10:19.555
Mm-hmm.

01:10:20.305 --> 01:10:23.215
That sounds like there were a bunch of
small steps that you've sort of left

01:10:23.215 --> 01:10:25.525
out because it's hard thing to take.

01:10:26.275 --> 01:10:27.535
One's act out there.

01:10:27.535 --> 01:10:32.755
You didn't have a sort of existing track
record of, I know, I know that Sise had

01:10:32.755 --> 01:10:38.485
been riding in that equestrian show some
years before and so on and so on, but it's

01:10:38.485 --> 01:10:42.715
another thing to then go to a professional
outfit and say, we need a job.

01:10:42.715 --> 01:10:43.255
We're amazing.

01:10:43.255 --> 01:10:43.975
Give us a job.

01:10:43.975 --> 01:10:45.205
How, how did you do that?

01:10:46.495 --> 01:10:49.855
Jason Barrett: Well, the, the connection
with the family made that possible, and he

01:10:49.855 --> 01:10:52.555
knew the quality of what we could produce.

01:10:53.035 --> 01:10:55.465
And so that was an, that was an easy one.

01:10:55.795 --> 01:10:59.335
We got lucky on the next one, the
West Virginia Renaissance Festival.

01:10:59.335 --> 01:11:01.105
We had a friend that suggested us to 'em.

01:11:01.105 --> 01:11:05.005
They were a small fair and they wanted
something new, so we went up and did it.

01:11:05.005 --> 01:11:06.715
And they had no idea
what they were getting.

01:11:06.745 --> 01:11:07.825
They were very well pleased.

01:11:08.245 --> 01:11:11.745
So, so yeah, so that, that was pretty
much, it happened just that quickly.

01:11:11.745 --> 01:11:12.975
Honestly, there was not a lot.

01:11:13.005 --> 01:11:15.975
We were in a, we were in a very
tough situation at the time.

01:11:16.035 --> 01:11:20.905
The property that we were well, one, we
were bottoming out in every direction.

01:11:21.005 --> 01:11:24.425
We had spent every dime of our
savings just to keep things going.

01:11:24.425 --> 01:11:29.135
So it was, it was serious conversations
about, Hey, did we get rid of some horses?

01:11:29.135 --> 01:11:30.545
We try this again later.

01:11:30.645 --> 01:11:31.365
That kind of thing.

01:11:32.595 --> 01:11:35.505
Equestrian chaos saved Ali's
school, equestrian arts.

01:11:35.505 --> 01:11:37.515
We would have closed, we did not have to.

01:11:37.515 --> 01:11:40.775
But once EC got on the
road, we hit that next job.

01:11:40.835 --> 01:11:43.715
Every job we've done,
somebody saw us and wants us.

01:11:44.085 --> 01:11:47.235
It's just that unique and that
different, so that's, that's how fast.

01:11:47.235 --> 01:11:47.745
What's your show

01:11:47.745 --> 01:11:48.735
Rupert Isaacson: circuit currently?

01:11:49.755 --> 01:11:54.445
Jason Barrett: Right now we do Florida
to Oregon, Washington, Ohio, Texas.

01:11:54.505 --> 01:11:56.275
I mean, it's a big loop.

01:11:56.605 --> 01:12:01.495
I think we did 2,800 miles out to
Oregon, Washington, 2,400 miles back

01:12:01.495 --> 01:12:03.595
to Ohio, another thousand back here.

01:12:03.595 --> 01:12:04.915
You know, a thousand down to Florida.

01:12:04.915 --> 01:12:09.325
We're heading to Texas in a week and
a half for three weekends out there.

01:12:09.835 --> 01:12:10.555
Very soon.

01:12:10.555 --> 01:12:12.445
That'll be another 900 miles or so.

01:12:12.925 --> 01:12:13.945
So we are cooking.

01:12:14.275 --> 01:12:19.555
The goal is to right now, it's just, it's
just been amazing to be able to breathe.

01:12:19.615 --> 01:12:24.385
Yeah, we've always, we've had some, we've
had some help along the way for sure.

01:12:24.415 --> 01:12:26.185
Some, some great help, but no.

01:12:27.475 --> 01:12:28.135
Change your life.

01:12:28.135 --> 01:12:29.635
Okay, you can do this now, help.

01:12:29.635 --> 01:12:32.425
You know, we've got the funding and
the budgeting to have employees.

01:12:32.425 --> 01:12:33.895
We gotta, you know, that's never happened.

01:12:33.895 --> 01:12:35.305
So we've always been earning it.

01:12:35.305 --> 01:12:39.665
So then we turned around and to see
equestrian chaos all of a sudden earn it.

01:12:39.845 --> 01:12:42.875
And again, we're starting
in a field we don't know.

01:12:43.475 --> 01:12:45.125
You know, we've, there's all that.

01:12:45.125 --> 01:12:48.695
I mean, people have been performing
for 20 years to the point where we are

01:12:48.695 --> 01:12:51.515
jumping in at, you know, at that level.

01:12:51.935 --> 01:12:53.705
So we don't know what the rates are.

01:12:53.705 --> 01:12:58.075
We don't know, you know, so we've
so we've done very well in the last

01:12:58.685 --> 01:13:02.735
three years finding out our value
and our worth and pushing and, and

01:13:02.735 --> 01:13:04.775
so in all, and in the long run.

01:13:05.135 --> 01:13:06.875
The funding from Equestrian Chaos.

01:13:06.875 --> 01:13:10.085
We take donations from every show
that we do that goes directly to the

01:13:10.085 --> 01:13:12.905
school, as well as our contract prices.

01:13:12.905 --> 01:13:16.775
Everything funnels right back
into the nonprofit organization to

01:13:16.775 --> 01:13:18.185
try and keep it alive and going.

01:13:18.185 --> 01:13:19.685
And we are making progress.

01:13:19.685 --> 01:13:22.385
Finally, we're finally able to
do some work on the new property.

01:13:22.385 --> 01:13:26.565
We have a beautiful 20 acre property
that we'll be able to develop now to put

01:13:26.565 --> 01:13:30.345
the things we need in place to, to do
the kind of work we were doing before.

01:13:30.825 --> 01:13:31.815
But yeah, we still keep it going.

01:13:31.815 --> 01:13:35.335
We have about 14 special needs
students that come to our program.

01:13:35.335 --> 01:13:38.125
When we're home, we want
to cut our road time down.

01:13:38.125 --> 01:13:42.325
Right now we're on the road better
than eight months, which is too long.

01:13:42.485 --> 01:13:45.905
We wanna do six and six and be able
to keep it going and then eventually

01:13:46.295 --> 01:13:50.435
have the staff we need to run both for
the, at the same time so we can keep

01:13:50.435 --> 01:13:54.155
the word going out, keep expanding
the awareness, showing it off in a

01:13:54.155 --> 01:13:57.785
big way, and then bringing it home and
growing it deeper and bigger and better.

01:13:57.995 --> 01:14:00.245
So it's exciting, it's fun.

01:14:00.245 --> 01:14:00.335
It

01:14:00.335 --> 01:14:01.025
Rupert Isaacson: is exciting.

01:14:01.125 --> 01:14:06.455
So people listening and watching, I'm
talking to you, listeners and watchers.

01:14:07.055 --> 01:14:10.175
You can donate to equestrian chaos.

01:14:10.235 --> 01:14:15.305
You can help them with their
nonprofit special needs work

01:14:15.575 --> 01:14:20.405
because what I've seen is

01:14:23.255 --> 01:14:24.635
you set people free.

01:14:25.865 --> 01:14:28.625
The mind blowing

01:14:31.085 --> 01:14:33.605
with that, you know, that's
not a flippant use of the word

01:14:36.180 --> 01:14:47.165
I, radical life change that I've seen you
guys bring into the lives of people who

01:14:48.485 --> 01:14:53.405
had been written off, liked him after his.

01:14:56.075 --> 01:15:00.635
Life shattering traumatic brain injury
where he was, I know he was being

01:15:00.635 --> 01:15:06.455
scouted, you know, as a pro football
player or not from a wealthy family,

01:15:06.635 --> 01:15:12.665
African American southern boy made
good through football, getting scouted

01:15:14.405 --> 01:15:17.705
on that track and then wham and, and

01:15:20.405 --> 01:15:26.765
in a wheelchair for life and barely able
to talk and unable to be independent.

01:15:26.825 --> 01:15:34.865
And rocky, the impossible,
nonverbal, autistic boy that you

01:15:34.865 --> 01:15:36.905
got being a star in the show.

01:15:36.935 --> 01:15:39.845
And numerous, numerous
others that I've seen.

01:15:40.715 --> 01:15:43.475
There just aren't many people out there

01:15:45.575 --> 01:15:49.835
giving opportunities like this where
it's not just like, you know, be the

01:15:49.835 --> 01:15:51.665
best you can be and all those cliches.

01:15:53.510 --> 01:15:59.570
It's, it's doing stuff that if you were
able-bodied and neurotypical, you might

01:15:59.570 --> 01:16:01.580
very, very well never be able to do.

01:16:03.470 --> 01:16:05.540
That's a, that's a big
bragging point for them.

01:16:06.260 --> 01:16:06.470
Like that.

01:16:06.470 --> 01:16:07.670
It's a massive bragging point.

01:16:07.670 --> 01:16:10.730
And you should brag
that, be Jesus out of it.

01:16:10.730 --> 01:16:15.890
Because, you know, I, I, I see
some good programs out there.

01:16:17.330 --> 01:16:19.220
I've never seen anything like you guys.

01:16:19.790 --> 01:16:20.150
Jason Barrett: Wow.

01:16:20.630 --> 01:16:23.990
Rupert Isaacson: And you, not me,
you know, in Texas they say I shack,

01:16:24.200 --> 01:16:25.670
I shacked twice and fell down in it.

01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:30.260
Jason Barrett: That's,

01:16:30.260 --> 01:16:30.590
that's

01:16:30.590 --> 01:16:31.280
very Texas.

01:16:33.380 --> 01:16:33.770
Yeah.

01:16:33.830 --> 01:16:35.960
Well, it, we feel that way.

01:16:36.020 --> 01:16:39.640
We know, we've come to know that
through it, we know the value of it.

01:16:39.750 --> 01:16:42.090
We are excited to watch it grow.

01:16:42.180 --> 01:16:42.480
Okay.

01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:44.790
I mean, we're looking
generationally, generationally now.

01:16:45.270 --> 01:16:48.840
You know, my daughter's growing
up, she's 18, Brooke is on her way.

01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:54.510
You know, there is no reason we can't
drive this thing to influence thousands

01:16:54.510 --> 01:16:59.010
more lives in the same way that Tim felt
like a superstar on top of that horse.

01:16:59.010 --> 01:17:01.770
He's finally, he's on the stage,
he's in the limelight again.

01:17:01.860 --> 01:17:02.130
Yeah.

01:17:02.160 --> 01:17:05.730
Even if it's just for a moment,
anyone who's ever been there knows

01:17:05.730 --> 01:17:07.500
that's a moment you hold onto.

01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:10.020
It's one of the ones you talk
about at the end of your days.

01:17:10.080 --> 01:17:10.470
You know?

01:17:10.950 --> 01:17:13.920
So we want those moments for as
many people as we can get 'em.

01:17:14.130 --> 01:17:14.370
Yeah.

01:17:14.610 --> 01:17:14.880
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:17:14.910 --> 01:17:16.680
Validation, self-belief.

01:17:17.670 --> 01:17:23.340
You, so the obvious question now
is, you know, where's it going?

01:17:24.100 --> 01:17:27.910
This is one of the hottest
shows, equestrian shows that's,

01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:29.860
that's out there in the world.

01:17:31.180 --> 01:17:31.480
Where's it?

01:17:32.320 --> 01:17:33.040
What are you gonna do with it?

01:17:33.070 --> 01:17:33.730
What's next?

01:17:34.780 --> 01:17:37.480
Jason Barrett: We are
continuing to, to book shows.

01:17:37.480 --> 01:17:41.810
We are working to build enough shows
in a shorter period where we can spend

01:17:41.810 --> 01:17:43.580
more time at home growing the program.

01:17:43.580 --> 01:17:47.740
While we are on the road though, we
have programs where we do trainings.

01:17:47.770 --> 01:17:49.610
We do we can do trainings for clinics.

01:17:49.610 --> 01:17:53.150
If you're out there and you're
therapeutic horseback riding program

01:17:53.150 --> 01:17:56.360
may be dragging a little bit or it's not
working the way you want, or you just

01:17:56.360 --> 01:18:00.780
wanna try something spicy new, something
different find us, keep in touch with us.

01:18:00.780 --> 01:18:05.430
Once we settle into a place, a lot of
the gigs that we do performing keep us in

01:18:05.430 --> 01:18:08.580
an area for a month or two or or longer.

01:18:09.030 --> 01:18:10.620
So that gives us opportunities.

01:18:10.620 --> 01:18:12.810
And most of the time we
perform are on the weekends.

01:18:12.810 --> 01:18:17.670
So our hope is to get out there and
to find other organizations that

01:18:17.670 --> 01:18:19.590
need this kind of training and help.

01:18:19.590 --> 01:18:21.180
We can bring programming in.

01:18:21.585 --> 01:18:26.115
For you that's established that we've
done show you ways to change things up, to

01:18:26.115 --> 01:18:31.525
give new people an opportunity, maybe make
you feel comfortable doing things that

01:18:31.525 --> 01:18:33.955
you weren't before, helping train horses.

01:18:33.955 --> 01:18:37.615
So we're looking to do a lot of that
work on the road and even in the circuit,

01:18:37.645 --> 01:18:41.575
I mean, we're traveling with other
performers and vendors who travel the

01:18:41.575 --> 01:18:45.335
same circuits and they have special
needs population in those circuits.

01:18:45.335 --> 01:18:48.485
So we have kids at each of the
fairs that we work with in the time,

01:18:48.485 --> 01:18:51.635
so they're getting an opportunity
for something that they don't have

01:18:51.635 --> 01:18:53.465
because of their transient lifestyle.

01:18:53.825 --> 01:18:57.755
And horses are kind of a in one place
thing, you know, for most people.

01:18:57.755 --> 01:18:59.895
So, it's an opportunity
for them to taste it.

01:18:59.895 --> 01:19:02.145
Then we, they, we can bring
'em up through the ranks.

01:19:02.145 --> 01:19:04.035
They can help with, we
can introduce other.

01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:06.510
People to helping people.

01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:09.750
We, we bring the program to the
stage, introduce that community.

01:19:09.750 --> 01:19:12.810
There's more people now that
see how well this works, this

01:19:12.810 --> 01:19:14.610
communication between horse and humans.

01:19:14.610 --> 01:19:16.140
So that's where we're at.

01:19:16.140 --> 01:19:18.300
We're out there just, just
pushing everything we do.

01:19:19.110 --> 01:19:22.110
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I'm hoping that
you guys will go international and I,

01:19:22.110 --> 01:19:24.970
I was talking to your wife about this.

01:19:25.040 --> 01:19:33.030
So, you know, we spoke a couple of
years ago about getting equestrian chaos

01:19:33.030 --> 01:19:34.740
to do a show of the horse boy story.

01:19:35.140 --> 01:19:37.960
Which I still would like instantly.

01:19:37.960 --> 01:19:42.730
Last year there's a special needs
theater in London called Chicken Shed.

01:19:42.760 --> 01:19:44.620
'cause it actually started
in a chicken shed Nice.

01:19:45.070 --> 01:19:47.260
And has now become this huge, huge thing.

01:19:47.780 --> 01:19:52.040
And they now also are affiliated
with a university there where they

01:19:52.970 --> 01:19:54.480
have the first degree program for.

01:19:55.325 --> 01:19:57.065
Performing arts for the special needs.

01:19:57.665 --> 01:20:01.835
And I feel that's a way, that's a
direction you guys would, could also

01:20:01.835 --> 01:20:07.235
logically go because you, you could
really show, train people, I think, how

01:20:07.235 --> 01:20:12.785
to work in the circus arts, not just with
horses, you know, in, in, in so many ways.

01:20:13.235 --> 01:20:14.345
Also with special needs.

01:20:14.345 --> 01:20:20.555
And I want them to do the show
of the horse boy because as well,

01:20:20.555 --> 01:20:26.345
because their cast is about half
autistic and wow, I really wanna

01:20:26.345 --> 01:20:28.265
see what they do with that story.

01:20:28.565 --> 01:20:31.595
But what they lack is.

01:20:32.435 --> 01:20:35.975
Understanding of the horse and
understanding of how to you would

01:20:35.975 --> 01:20:39.125
bring that experience that would
look a little bit like equestrian

01:20:39.125 --> 01:20:41.825
chaos into like a London theater.

01:20:42.275 --> 01:20:45.305
And I was chatting with, with
Ali about this, and she said, oh,

01:20:45.305 --> 01:20:47.585
well, you know, she immediately
goes, oh, well here's the solution.

01:20:47.585 --> 01:20:47.795
Yeah.

01:20:48.005 --> 01:20:51.035
And she goes, well, you know, you,
you put them on vaulting barrels,

01:20:51.035 --> 01:20:53.795
which you then have, you know, to look
like horses, and you can move those.

01:20:53.795 --> 01:20:57.095
And then those are, you know,
your Mongolian riders or your

01:20:57.365 --> 01:21:01.925
spirits or your, you know, and, you
know, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:21:01.925 --> 01:21:04.025
You guys need to be consultants on this.

01:21:04.625 --> 01:21:05.075
Okay.

01:21:05.075 --> 01:21:05.795
That's clear.

01:21:06.345 --> 01:21:06.645
That's the,

01:21:06.975 --> 01:21:07.215
Jason Barrett: yeah,

01:21:07.245 --> 01:21:09.075
Rupert Isaacson: so I'm hoping
lightning, lightning thoughts

01:21:09.075 --> 01:21:10.155
on that, you guys to London?

01:21:10.815 --> 01:21:11.955
Jason Barrett: Yeah, that sounds great.

01:21:11.955 --> 01:21:12.945
Yeah, we'd, we'd love to.

01:21:12.945 --> 01:21:14.175
We we've had a couple stabs.

01:21:14.175 --> 01:21:17.785
We had somebody from Ride on
Festival interest one time we had

01:21:17.785 --> 01:21:19.045
something out of Brazil interest.

01:21:19.165 --> 01:21:21.625
So there's, there's, there's something
gonna hit out there, but we'd love to

01:21:21.625 --> 01:21:23.605
do anything with you Ru It'd be great.

01:21:24.025 --> 01:21:24.505
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:21:24.685 --> 01:21:25.165
Yeah.

01:21:25.345 --> 01:21:27.235
It's so, you know, viewers.

01:21:28.265 --> 01:21:32.285
Listeners, equestrian chaos.com.

01:21:33.395 --> 01:21:34.535
They're a nonprofit.

01:21:35.165 --> 01:21:36.995
There is a donate button, I believe.

01:21:38.645 --> 01:21:42.395
Donate to them because
this is, this is work.

01:21:42.725 --> 01:21:46.325
You know, for example, if you've got
a birthday coming up or something, get

01:21:46.325 --> 01:21:55.415
your friends to donate to them as a
birthday gift to you, because I frankly

01:21:55.415 --> 01:22:00.575
have not seen in all the 20 years that
I've been doing this work, I haven't

01:22:00.575 --> 01:22:07.505
seen anything as badass as equestrian
chaos, including my own work, by the

01:22:07.505 --> 01:22:09.365
way, I thought that was pretty badass

01:22:09.365 --> 01:22:10.055
Jason Barrett: until Yes, sir.

01:22:10.595 --> 01:22:11.525
Indeed you are.

01:22:11.525 --> 01:22:12.065
Indeed you are.

01:22:12.065 --> 01:22:13.235
But like-minded birds man.

01:22:13.745 --> 01:22:14.225
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:22:14.835 --> 01:22:20.820
This idea of of, of expanding what is
possible so far outside, people talk about

01:22:20.820 --> 01:22:23.955
outside the box and that kind of cliche.

01:22:27.420 --> 01:22:31.905
It is like you created your own
boxes, threw them away, created new

01:22:31.905 --> 01:22:35.865
ones, threw those ones away, and they
created a parallel universe, in fact.

01:22:35.895 --> 01:22:36.210
Jason Barrett: Yeah, yeah.

01:22:36.465 --> 01:22:36.915
You know,

01:22:37.575 --> 01:22:38.625
Rupert Isaacson: stood on the opposite

01:22:38.625 --> 01:22:42.385
Jason Barrett: of a box, A quantum
box stood outside running around it.

01:22:43.005 --> 01:22:43.725
It's, have you guys thought

01:22:43.725 --> 01:22:45.375
Rupert Isaacson: about
doing life coaching as well?

01:22:45.375 --> 01:22:50.685
Because I, I, I feel that the way you've
also done it sort of on a wish and

01:22:50.685 --> 01:22:55.155
a prayer financially, where you, you
never had the silver spoon, you never

01:22:55.155 --> 01:22:57.015
had the big organization backing you.

01:22:57.015 --> 01:22:59.415
You never had any of that.

01:22:59.595 --> 01:23:05.505
And yet you did this show that
was just so incredibly polished

01:23:06.825 --> 01:23:10.695
on little resources and so on.

01:23:10.965 --> 01:23:15.375
I, I, I feel that people could
consult with you guys about

01:23:17.745 --> 01:23:19.485
how to get their lives unstuck.

01:23:23.130 --> 01:23:24.600
Jason Barrett: It's, I love people.

01:23:24.600 --> 01:23:25.950
I, I love them.

01:23:26.040 --> 01:23:29.120
We're so deep and so different
and and yet so the same.

01:23:29.180 --> 01:23:34.940
And it seems to be, it just kind of
follows in the course of what we're doing.

01:23:35.060 --> 01:23:40.100
We've had a lot of influence on, on
people's lives from, from the experiences

01:23:40.100 --> 01:23:41.900
they've had with our family Yeah.

01:23:41.900 --> 01:23:44.510
That are tangible and leave a mark.

01:23:44.960 --> 01:23:48.940
So, so yeah, I, I don't know where that
goes, but we're always happy to help.

01:23:49.420 --> 01:23:49.930
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:23:50.620 --> 01:23:58.120
Now as we sort of draw to, to a close
here, you started your whole life

01:23:58.120 --> 01:24:03.190
with this within a spiritual context.

01:24:04.090 --> 01:24:05.500
Although you, yourself.

01:24:06.220 --> 01:24:11.590
W by, if I get this right, we're
not so personally religious.

01:24:11.590 --> 01:24:15.310
I mean, to some degree, but it was
more that, that was the structure that,

01:24:15.520 --> 01:24:18.400
of that church that was around you
at the time that created that camp.

01:24:18.400 --> 01:24:22.090
But of course, later the Jehovah's
Witnesses got their teeth into

01:24:22.090 --> 01:24:26.720
your jugular, but then you managed
to extract yourself and but came

01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:28.040
away with some great life skills.

01:24:29.480 --> 01:24:31.460
Where are you at now spiritually?

01:24:31.460 --> 01:24:34.370
What's your spirituality and,
and what tips have you got for

01:24:34.370 --> 01:24:39.890
people who are feeling stuck,
who are feeling that they can't?

01:24:46.325 --> 01:24:49.175
Jason Barrett: You can,
you absolutely can.

01:24:49.175 --> 01:24:51.095
However we can beat that thought into you.

01:24:51.095 --> 01:24:52.535
You can, you're not stuck.

01:24:52.815 --> 01:24:56.895
There is opportunity and if you
look around in the world, you

01:24:56.895 --> 01:25:00.285
will see people with far less
opportunity than you have making it.

01:25:00.585 --> 01:25:01.695
You're, they're out there.

01:25:01.875 --> 01:25:03.825
You can absolutely do it.

01:25:04.275 --> 01:25:06.825
You have to be patient, kind to yourself.

01:25:06.855 --> 01:25:10.785
You gotta forgive yourself and
your ignorances, you, you, you

01:25:10.785 --> 01:25:16.305
have to, you have to have a, a
purpose, find a purpose without it.

01:25:16.980 --> 01:25:18.150
You'll be forever lost.

01:25:18.150 --> 01:25:19.920
You've gotta find some kind of purpose.

01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:23.010
And that can be any number of
things, but you'll know it.

01:25:23.340 --> 01:25:26.300
Find a purpose and ask people
who have found a purpose.

01:25:26.300 --> 01:25:28.835
Talk to folks like yourself and
me who have found a talk to folks

01:25:28.835 --> 01:25:29.780
Rupert Isaacson: who found a purpose.

01:25:29.810 --> 01:25:30.320
Yeah.

01:25:30.320 --> 01:25:30.330
Jason Barrett: Yeah.

01:25:30.410 --> 01:25:34.760
Talk to folks who found a purpose,
because you may not know how to get there.

01:25:34.760 --> 01:25:37.370
You may not even know what
strikes you until you've had a

01:25:37.370 --> 01:25:40.250
conversation with somebody who
knows the right questions to ask.

01:25:40.370 --> 01:25:44.510
You know, you can't see yourself
as well as you think you do.

01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:47.210
So it's always good to
talk to somebody, you know?

01:25:49.430 --> 01:25:51.620
Rupert Isaacson: I think, you know, and
it's interesting 'cause you are the mc

01:25:52.460 --> 01:25:55.040
and your job is to communicate the show.

01:25:55.100 --> 01:25:56.150
And I've watched you do it.

01:25:56.600 --> 01:25:57.890
I've also watched you structure it.

01:25:57.890 --> 01:26:00.170
I've watched you create the
music for, I've watched you

01:26:00.170 --> 01:26:01.220
create the backdrops for it.

01:26:01.220 --> 01:26:02.750
I've watched you create the aesthetic.

01:26:03.260 --> 01:26:08.210
I've watched you run the
thing, develop the thing.

01:26:10.310 --> 01:26:12.950
You are a very good organizer.

01:26:13.760 --> 01:26:14.270
But yeah.

01:26:14.270 --> 01:26:18.380
Back to the spirituality,
what's your relationship with

01:26:18.950 --> 01:26:20.810
the big GOD at this point?

01:26:22.335 --> 01:26:24.995
Jason Barrett: I'm, I'm grateful
for this incredible life I have.

01:26:24.995 --> 01:26:25.395
Mm-hmm.

01:26:25.475 --> 01:26:28.580
I mean, I think if you live in
gratitude, you're, you're already

01:26:28.580 --> 01:26:29.840
on your way to spirituality.

01:26:30.320 --> 01:26:33.220
I think that gratitude gives
you the opportunity to see.

01:26:33.670 --> 01:26:37.090
The beauty in each person,
regardless of their shortcomings.

01:26:37.510 --> 01:26:42.010
I take the principles that I learned
from the life of Jesus, the idea of

01:26:42.010 --> 01:26:45.190
total peace and, and zen whatever.

01:26:45.300 --> 01:26:49.680
All those religions have thoughts
that have spawned from men or from

01:26:49.890 --> 01:26:54.000
some higher power with ideas that are,
that are great and some that aren't.

01:26:54.660 --> 01:26:56.340
You have to, you have to source it out.

01:26:56.340 --> 01:26:57.060
You have to try it.

01:26:57.090 --> 01:27:02.250
But there's nothing will ever go wrong
with finding a purpose, lending a

01:27:02.250 --> 01:27:06.670
helping hand sharing your heart with
someone or making the opportunity

01:27:06.670 --> 01:27:09.820
for someone to feel comfortable
enough to share their heart with you.

01:27:10.270 --> 01:27:13.330
If you do those things, it's going to
lead to something, something better.

01:27:13.330 --> 01:27:17.080
Even if it's uncomfortable, even if
it stings, it hurts so spiritually.

01:27:17.080 --> 01:27:18.370
I'm just looking forward to the future.

01:27:18.700 --> 01:27:21.160
I don't know what the big guy
has in store, but I'm grateful

01:27:21.160 --> 01:27:22.210
for what I have so far.

01:27:22.540 --> 01:27:24.730
If he is had a part in that,
I'm, I'm really thankful.

01:27:26.050 --> 01:27:27.760
I'm looking forward to
being exciting ride.

01:27:28.300 --> 01:27:31.380
Rupert Isaacson: It seems that what
you're saying is, a formula of cultivate

01:27:31.380 --> 01:27:41.880
gratitude and seek active mentorship,
talk to people who have a life purpose.

01:27:41.970 --> 01:27:45.150
It seems that you've almost coming
up with that as an equation.

01:27:45.870 --> 01:27:46.590
Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.

01:27:46.596 --> 01:27:49.380
That's, that's, that's the, that's
the, if there's a third part,

01:27:49.380 --> 01:27:54.930
it's don't quit ruminating the,
the negative things in your life

01:27:54.930 --> 01:27:56.190
or the bad problems in your head.

01:27:56.190 --> 01:27:57.210
That would be the third part.

01:27:57.210 --> 01:27:59.160
You've gotta shut that shit down somehow.

01:27:59.400 --> 01:28:00.675
And how did you shut that shit down?

01:28:02.340 --> 01:28:03.990
Trying over and over again, you know?

01:28:03.990 --> 01:28:04.380
Yeah.

01:28:04.380 --> 01:28:06.060
You know, you, you, you
made the wrong decision.

01:28:06.060 --> 01:28:09.240
Something, something you did bitch
you in your ass and your wife told

01:28:09.245 --> 01:28:10.200
you you shouldn't have done that.

01:28:10.200 --> 01:28:12.480
You know, you're going to have
to let it go at some point.

01:28:12.480 --> 01:28:14.010
You can't be upset about it forever.

01:28:14.015 --> 01:28:15.420
You, you gotta roll past it.

01:28:15.425 --> 01:28:18.390
You, you know, same thing if anything
can happen in your life, but there

01:28:18.390 --> 01:28:22.020
is tomorrow, there is today, there
are the people standing around you

01:28:22.020 --> 01:28:26.250
that are attached to you and by you
and you've got to let, I hear so

01:28:26.250 --> 01:28:30.330
many times people just say the same
thing over and over and it's the bad

01:28:30.330 --> 01:28:31.710
thing that they have in their life.

01:28:32.040 --> 01:28:32.130
Mm-hmm.

01:28:32.130 --> 01:28:33.540
You've gotta cut that cycle.

01:28:33.870 --> 01:28:35.220
So yeah, those three things.

01:28:35.220 --> 01:28:37.830
Find a purpose, talk to
someone with a purpose.

01:28:38.400 --> 01:28:41.070
Don't regurgitate your
troubles over and over again.

01:28:41.160 --> 01:28:43.110
Tell your confidant and then let it be.

01:28:43.770 --> 01:28:44.100
And then

01:28:44.700 --> 01:28:48.600
Rupert Isaacson: I feel that, yeah, that
gratitude certainly helps me with that.

01:28:48.760 --> 01:28:48.770
Mm-hmm.

01:28:49.265 --> 01:28:52.180
You know, you, you're probably
familiar with this phrase from the

01:28:52.180 --> 01:28:53.890
Bible 'cause you spent so much time.

01:28:54.535 --> 01:28:55.555
In the Bible.

01:28:55.975 --> 01:28:58.495
But from New Testament one, you
know, the idea of turning the

01:28:58.495 --> 01:28:59.815
other cheek if someone slaps you.

01:28:59.815 --> 01:28:59.965
Yeah.

01:29:00.625 --> 01:29:00.805
Right.

01:29:00.835 --> 01:29:03.535
And that's always been
interpreted, you know, I, I always

01:29:03.535 --> 01:29:04.465
had a problem with that one.

01:29:04.465 --> 01:29:05.155
It's like, no man.

01:29:05.155 --> 01:29:05.245
Mm-hmm.

01:29:05.485 --> 01:29:06.205
Punch 'em in the face.

01:29:06.205 --> 01:29:06.415
Yeah.

01:29:06.420 --> 01:29:06.700
No way.

01:29:06.770 --> 01:29:07.060
Yeah.

01:29:07.315 --> 01:29:09.075
And it's bat kick him in the nut.

01:29:09.735 --> 01:29:14.125
And then I was listening to the
work of, I dunno if you've ever

01:29:14.125 --> 01:29:15.415
come across Neville Godard.

01:29:16.205 --> 01:29:22.445
He was a really interesting sort
of early law of attraction dude who

01:29:22.445 --> 01:29:27.365
was active in the sort of, in the
forties and fifties and sixties.

01:29:27.735 --> 01:29:30.645
If you go on YouTube, you
can find recordings by him.

01:29:30.645 --> 01:29:33.795
And what's really interesting
about him is he interprets the

01:29:33.795 --> 01:29:38.265
whole thing through a New Testament
lens, but not in any dogmatic way.

01:29:38.265 --> 01:29:43.245
In fact, what he's saying is the
entire Bible is just an allegory for.

01:29:44.055 --> 01:29:46.065
Effectively the law of attraction.

01:29:46.515 --> 01:29:52.105
And he, he explains turning the other
cheek as when you are looking in a

01:29:52.105 --> 01:29:59.275
direction that slaps you in the face,
turn your face and look in a direction

01:29:59.785 --> 01:30:01.285
of where you actually want to go.

01:30:02.455 --> 01:30:05.575
And because where your attention
is is where you're gonna go.

01:30:05.575 --> 01:30:08.515
You're gonna move towards
the thing you're looking at.

01:30:09.025 --> 01:30:09.865
You know, that's a good way

01:30:09.865 --> 01:30:10.375
Jason Barrett: of looking at it.

01:30:10.495 --> 01:30:12.145
Rupert Isaacson: Energy goes
where attention flows, where

01:30:12.145 --> 01:30:13.315
attention goes or whatever.

01:30:13.815 --> 01:30:19.455
So you literally must, it's telling you,
no, not here, like touching the hot stove.

01:30:19.875 --> 01:30:20.055
Jason Barrett: Mm-hmm.

01:30:20.475 --> 01:30:21.975
Rupert Isaacson: Turn your gaze.

01:30:22.365 --> 01:30:22.785
Really?

01:30:22.785 --> 01:30:24.195
It would be better if they said gaze.

01:30:24.765 --> 01:30:25.035
Jason Barrett: Yeah.

01:30:25.155 --> 01:30:25.245
Yeah.

01:30:25.245 --> 01:30:25.905
I could take that.

01:30:26.055 --> 01:30:26.235
Yeah.

01:30:26.295 --> 01:30:26.595
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:30:27.510 --> 01:30:28.140
Jason Barrett: Yeah, that works.

01:30:28.140 --> 01:30:28.830
That works well.

01:30:28.890 --> 01:30:29.730
Yeah, absolutely.

01:30:30.300 --> 01:30:30.540
Yeah.

01:30:30.540 --> 01:30:31.380
Turn the other cheek.

01:30:31.660 --> 01:30:32.410
Look the other way.

01:30:32.410 --> 01:30:33.310
Go where you wanted.

01:30:33.370 --> 01:30:35.915
And that's a huge thing that we've
learned, you know, the way you want.

01:30:35.915 --> 01:30:39.640
If you're forcing it, if you're forcing
it to happen, you have to recognize

01:30:39.640 --> 01:30:40.600
whether you are or you're not.

01:30:40.600 --> 01:30:42.490
You have to have the
insight to be able to tell.

01:30:42.490 --> 01:30:45.580
But man, if you're forcing something,
you're probably not in the right place.

01:30:46.510 --> 01:30:49.900
Because when it fits you,
you know when it comes Right.

01:30:49.900 --> 01:30:51.730
And somebody's after
you and they want you.

01:30:52.120 --> 01:30:52.510
Yes.

01:30:52.640 --> 01:30:54.375
That, that this, that's where you go.

01:30:54.405 --> 01:30:56.505
Make sure you move when
that happens, you know?

01:30:57.165 --> 01:30:57.375
But,

01:30:58.695 --> 01:31:01.875
Rupert Isaacson: well,
it's been a pleasure.

01:31:02.185 --> 01:31:05.335
I'm gonna nag my listeners to donate.

01:31:06.415 --> 01:31:07.165
Jason Barrett: I appreciate that.

01:31:07.165 --> 01:31:08.635
We could certainly make good use of it.

01:31:08.755 --> 01:31:09.475
Rupert Isaacson: Yes.

01:31:09.535 --> 01:31:15.175
And more than that, I really,
really strongly urge anyone who's

01:31:15.175 --> 01:31:19.075
listening or watching this go and
check out an equestrian chaos show.

01:31:20.185 --> 01:31:20.695
Absolutely.

01:31:20.695 --> 01:31:22.765
You might think, oh yeah,
I've seen circus acts.

01:31:23.125 --> 01:31:24.505
You haven't seen one like this.

01:31:25.835 --> 01:31:26.315
We'll be in

01:31:26.315 --> 01:31:27.755
Jason Barrett: Glad Water Texas here.

01:31:27.755 --> 01:31:31.545
The next three weekends starting
November 5th or December 5th, we'll

01:31:31.545 --> 01:31:34.485
have three weekends of shows out
there at the, is that Tyler Viking

01:31:34.485 --> 01:31:34.935
Festival?

01:31:34.935 --> 01:31:35.055
Tyler?

01:31:35.425 --> 01:31:36.205
It's near Tyler.

01:31:36.265 --> 01:31:36.745
Near Tyler.

01:31:36.750 --> 01:31:36.800
Okay.

01:31:36.805 --> 01:31:37.945
It's in a town called Glad Water.

01:31:37.950 --> 01:31:39.685
It's, it's the Yue Viking Festival.

01:31:39.715 --> 01:31:41.845
We've got three weekends
of shows out there.

01:31:42.175 --> 01:31:43.105
We're gonna kill it out there.

01:31:43.105 --> 01:31:44.275
They've been incredible to us.

01:31:44.275 --> 01:31:46.315
That's one of the ones
where you like, wow.

01:31:46.495 --> 01:31:48.235
They built their stage for us.

01:31:48.235 --> 01:31:50.185
They call it the equestrian Arena.

01:31:50.365 --> 01:31:51.475
I mean, the Chaos Arena.

01:31:51.845 --> 01:31:54.305
They put some beautiful
stalls up for our horses.

01:31:54.305 --> 01:31:57.425
I mean, they set up our, our area
for our camp and our rigs, and it

01:31:57.425 --> 01:31:58.595
just, and that's running through

01:31:58.595 --> 01:31:59.945
Rupert Isaacson: December, 2025

01:31:59.945 --> 01:32:00.605
Jason Barrett: through December?

01:32:00.725 --> 01:32:01.055
Yep.

01:32:01.055 --> 01:32:02.075
December, 2025.

01:32:02.075 --> 01:32:03.755
That'll be our last
performances this year.

01:32:03.755 --> 01:32:04.505
And then we'll kick off.

01:32:04.505 --> 01:32:08.205
We'll have some announcements about next
year's performances coming up real soon,

01:32:08.205 --> 01:32:09.765
but we'll be all over the country again.

01:32:10.305 --> 01:32:10.815
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:32:10.965 --> 01:32:12.705
I'll get on my Texas people.

01:32:12.740 --> 01:32:13.030
Yeah.

01:32:13.335 --> 01:32:13.485
Yeah.

01:32:13.485 --> 01:32:13.815
To go up.

01:32:13.815 --> 01:32:14.385
Sounds good.

01:32:14.865 --> 01:32:15.255
All right.

01:32:15.255 --> 01:32:15.495
Jason Barrett: Yeah, man.

01:32:16.665 --> 01:32:19.155
Rupert Isaacson: Well, listen, my
friend, it's been a real pleasure.

01:32:19.255 --> 01:32:20.995
I can't wait to reconnect again.

01:32:21.370 --> 01:32:22.690
In person soon.

01:32:22.750 --> 01:32:23.410
Jason Barrett: Absolutely.

01:32:23.410 --> 01:32:24.490
I was thinking the same thing.

01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:25.300
It'll be good to hang.

01:32:25.750 --> 01:32:29.770
Rupert Isaacson: Like I say, you, you
and Sise are massive heroes of mine.

01:32:30.465 --> 01:32:31.900
I'm always, I'm in awe.

01:32:32.890 --> 01:32:34.030
Goes both ways brother.

01:32:34.030 --> 01:32:34.690
Project going,

01:32:35.500 --> 01:32:36.460
Jason Barrett: goes both ways.

01:32:36.760 --> 01:32:37.090
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:32:38.200 --> 01:32:38.770
All right.

01:32:38.830 --> 01:32:40.330
Well, until the next time.

01:32:40.600 --> 01:32:42.220
Equestrian chaos.com.

01:32:42.340 --> 01:32:42.550
That's right.

01:32:42.550 --> 01:32:43.420
You can find them there.

01:32:43.900 --> 01:32:48.460
If you're listening now in December
2nd, 2025, you're in the South.

01:32:48.460 --> 01:32:49.930
Head on over to Glade Water.

01:32:49.930 --> 01:32:50.260
Is It?

01:32:50.860 --> 01:32:52.960
Jason Barrett: Glad Water,
Texas Biking Festival,

01:32:54.040 --> 01:32:55.090
Rupert Isaacson: And near Tyler.

01:32:55.090 --> 01:32:55.930
Get your mind blown.

01:32:56.620 --> 01:32:57.430
Jason Barrett: Yeah, come on.

01:32:57.880 --> 01:32:58.480
We'll do it.

01:32:59.320 --> 01:33:00.520
Appreciate you Rupert, man.

01:33:00.730 --> 01:33:01.090
It was awesome.

01:33:01.090 --> 01:33:01.420
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:02.860
Till the next time.

01:33:03.250 --> 01:33:04.090
Jason Barrett: Alright, later.

01:33:04.420 --> 01:33:04.690
Bye.

01:33:04.690 --> 01:33:04.750
Bye.

01:33:04.857 --> 01:33:08.237
Rupert Isaacson: I hope you enjoyed
today's conversation as much as I did.

01:33:09.067 --> 01:33:12.817
If you did, please help us to make more.

01:33:12.817 --> 01:33:16.697
Please like, subscribe, tell
a friend, give us a thumbs up.

01:33:17.147 --> 01:33:22.397
If you'd like to support us on Patreon,
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01:33:22.717 --> 01:33:23.067
com.

01:33:23.267 --> 01:33:26.447
And if you'd like to find out about
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01:33:26.837 --> 01:33:30.787
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There's a whole range of cool stuff.

01:33:33.607 --> 01:33:36.637
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01:33:56.752 --> 01:33:58.662
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01:34:08.672 --> 01:34:09.532
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01:34:09.592 --> 01:34:13.142
I can't wait for our next guest
and also to meet you there.

01:34:13.942 --> 01:34:17.732
In the meantime, remember, live free.

01:34:18.662 --> 01:34:19.212
Ride free.