1 00:00:00,155 --> 00:00:01,035 Carl: Hello everyone. 2 00:00:01,035 --> 00:00:04,515 Thank you for joining us for the July edition of this month in React, 3 00:00:04,515 --> 00:00:09,195 where we recap and digest all of the latest news and developments in React. 4 00:00:09,285 --> 00:00:10,795 React Native, and across the web. 5 00:00:11,125 --> 00:00:13,915 We're coming to you live from Reactive Flux, the place for 6 00:00:13,915 --> 00:00:15,355 professional developers using React. 7 00:00:16,095 --> 00:00:19,295 I am a staff product developer and freelance community leader here in 8 00:00:19,295 --> 00:00:22,855 React Flux where I do community programs like these events and build tools to 9 00:00:23,085 --> 00:00:24,815 help keep the community operating. 10 00:00:25,355 --> 00:00:27,255 May be making more progress on one of those. 11 00:00:27,355 --> 00:00:31,975 So maybe I'll do a product announcement in the next couple of weeks or months maybe. 12 00:00:32,394 --> 00:00:33,175 Mark: Hi, I'm Mark. 13 00:00:33,415 --> 00:00:34,335 I maintain Redux. 14 00:00:34,515 --> 00:00:37,855 My day job is at Replay where we've built a time traveling debugger 15 00:00:37,855 --> 00:00:41,055 and are currently trying to get in on the AI app generating craze. 16 00:00:41,745 --> 00:00:46,365 And other than that, I may moderate things and read too many articles. 17 00:00:46,785 --> 00:00:47,605 Mo: My name is Mo. 18 00:00:47,885 --> 00:00:49,565 I head the mobile team at Theo. 19 00:00:50,065 --> 00:00:53,245 I'm an active member of the React Native community and I organize 20 00:00:53,345 --> 00:00:56,405 the React Native London Meetup and the React Native London Conference. 21 00:00:57,055 --> 00:00:57,905 Excited to be here. 22 00:00:58,420 --> 00:00:58,580 Carl: Excellent. 23 00:00:58,580 --> 00:00:58,740 Yeah. 24 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:01,300 We missed you Last month there was react native things to discuss. 25 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,060 Mark: We had no idea what we were talking about. 26 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:04,379 Carl: Not even a little bit. 27 00:01:04,679 --> 00:01:06,020 We basically just punted on it. 28 00:01:06,030 --> 00:01:06,380 Great. 29 00:01:06,490 --> 00:01:06,780 Cool. 30 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,860 I'm gonna skip job market stuff. 31 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:09,980 I don't think I'm gonna do that anymore. 32 00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:11,980 'cause like who even knows what's going on? 33 00:01:12,039 --> 00:01:15,321 The jobs are wild and the indicators are. 34 00:01:15,787 --> 00:01:17,527 Too fuzzy to really be that useful, I think. 35 00:01:17,797 --> 00:01:20,217 Mo, tell us about some React native new releases. 36 00:01:20,807 --> 00:01:21,097 Mo: Cool. 37 00:01:21,437 --> 00:01:27,137 So we recently had React Native Reanimated version four being released. 38 00:01:27,277 --> 00:01:30,337 So for those of you who are sort of avid React native developers, 39 00:01:30,337 --> 00:01:33,817 you'll know that React Reanimated is sort of the defacto way. 40 00:01:34,467 --> 00:01:38,127 To be able to animate elements, layouts and whatever you have inside 41 00:01:38,127 --> 00:01:39,887 of your React native applications. 42 00:01:40,107 --> 00:01:41,647 So the team's been hard at work. 43 00:01:41,967 --> 00:01:44,847 Animates has been around as a package for, for several years now, and 44 00:01:44,847 --> 00:01:47,647 they've been iterating on it and making it better and better over time. 45 00:01:47,797 --> 00:01:51,567 There's a general push that you'll sort of know from the previous episodes 46 00:01:51,597 --> 00:01:56,367 over the last year or so towards sort of unifying React native and 47 00:01:56,817 --> 00:01:58,487 react in the web as much as possible. 48 00:01:59,122 --> 00:02:03,262 And so CSS transitions and animations are sort of becoming a key part of 49 00:02:03,862 --> 00:02:08,862 Reanimated as well, so that the APIs and the way that you can animate things in 50 00:02:08,922 --> 00:02:11,502 Native world are as similar as possible. 51 00:02:11,812 --> 00:02:15,302 Obviously there's some limitations that can't make it one-to-one, but as similar 52 00:02:15,362 --> 00:02:17,702 as possible between web and mobile. 53 00:02:18,282 --> 00:02:21,662 And one of the other things is now that we're in this world where you could use 54 00:02:21,662 --> 00:02:25,782 React native on web and mobile, trying to find a way to have performance. 55 00:02:26,442 --> 00:02:29,692 Web-based animations and transitions is quite important as well. 56 00:02:29,692 --> 00:02:32,492 And Reanimated has been working on this under the hood so that when 57 00:02:32,492 --> 00:02:36,532 you do use reanimated in your React Native universal app, it actually 58 00:02:36,532 --> 00:02:40,692 has performant animations on the web as well, not just on native devices. 59 00:02:41,232 --> 00:02:44,972 One of the challenges in the past has been that it's not quite great 60 00:02:45,072 --> 00:02:48,652 on the web because it would use JavaScript to orchestrate animations. 61 00:02:49,152 --> 00:02:52,212 Not really great, and really, really bogs down the performance 62 00:02:52,212 --> 00:02:53,172 of your app on the web. 63 00:02:53,552 --> 00:02:54,732 So some good work being done there. 64 00:02:55,487 --> 00:02:59,847 A few other things to mention is that Worklet is a part of Reanimated as well. 65 00:02:59,917 --> 00:03:04,447 It's, it's a way to basically allow some level of multithreading in your apps. 66 00:03:04,707 --> 00:03:08,127 It kind of formed as a need of reanimated itself, but they've 67 00:03:08,197 --> 00:03:10,847 made it sort of an open public API that you can access for other 68 00:03:10,847 --> 00:03:12,327 multithreading needs that you may have. 69 00:03:12,867 --> 00:03:14,407 So they're trying to move that. 70 00:03:14,762 --> 00:03:19,582 Across into sort of a separate library and start to separate that up because it's not 71 00:03:19,582 --> 00:03:21,582 just useful for reanimated or animations. 72 00:03:21,582 --> 00:03:25,182 It's useful for a whole bunch of other stuff like background fetching and, and 73 00:03:25,182 --> 00:03:28,222 you know, computationally heavy tasks that you need to run behind the scenes. 74 00:03:28,352 --> 00:03:31,622 Other things to mention is that Reanimated used to be this huge package 75 00:03:31,882 --> 00:03:34,902 and once you had, you know, imported one thing and Reanimated, everything 76 00:03:34,902 --> 00:03:38,182 was imported and so obviously that affects things like your app bundle size. 77 00:03:38,372 --> 00:03:41,222 They've now took an approach to make it modular so that you can import. 78 00:03:42,052 --> 00:03:44,112 And Bobs of Reanimated rather than the whole thing. 79 00:03:44,262 --> 00:03:47,512 Obviously it's not just a JavaScript sort of tree shaking thing that matters 80 00:03:47,542 --> 00:03:48,872 here because we're in Native World. 81 00:03:49,062 --> 00:03:52,912 There's also sort of the native compiled code and you need to be 82 00:03:52,912 --> 00:03:54,112 able to modularize that as well. 83 00:03:54,252 --> 00:03:57,072 So it, it's not necessarily a straightforward process for the 84 00:03:57,072 --> 00:03:57,872 team, and I appreciate that. 85 00:03:57,872 --> 00:04:01,192 It was probably quite complex to decouple a lot of this code and separate it up 86 00:04:01,192 --> 00:04:04,352 into different packages, both on the native layer and the JavaScript layer. 87 00:04:04,662 --> 00:04:05,592 Carl: What does that affect on a native. 88 00:04:05,957 --> 00:04:10,202 Package, I guess like app, total package size, or does it affect like startup 89 00:04:10,202 --> 00:04:11,202 performance and things like that? 90 00:04:11,582 --> 00:04:12,802 Mo: It, it can affect both. 91 00:04:12,942 --> 00:04:17,082 Mainly the app total size that you would need to download is, is a key thing. 92 00:04:17,582 --> 00:04:20,762 It can also affect, like you say, the startup time, albeit 93 00:04:20,762 --> 00:04:22,802 startup time is largely sort of. 94 00:04:23,212 --> 00:04:27,982 Handled by Hermes, the engine that's been created for React Native specifically 95 00:04:27,982 --> 00:04:32,142 because it, it sort of optimizes to, to avoid large startup times as a 96 00:04:32,142 --> 00:04:33,382 result of having a big app bundle. 97 00:04:33,802 --> 00:04:36,502 But it's really mainly the, the, the bundle size. 98 00:04:36,722 --> 00:04:40,262 And again, when we're going into this sort of web and mobile world where 99 00:04:40,322 --> 00:04:43,662 you use the same packages across the board, modularizing as well on the 100 00:04:43,662 --> 00:04:47,142 web, even though you'll have tree shaking, is going to be good practice 101 00:04:47,142 --> 00:04:49,422 so that you're not importing a whole bunch of stuff that you don't need. 102 00:04:49,922 --> 00:04:51,102 Lastly, and I, I think this is. 103 00:04:51,742 --> 00:04:54,107 Something that everyone is quite passionate about in the React native 104 00:04:54,107 --> 00:04:57,907 ecosystem and has been a challenge is shared element transitions. 105 00:04:58,527 --> 00:05:02,427 So shared element transitions is sort of the transitions that you might be 106 00:05:02,587 --> 00:05:06,507 familiar with in the native world where an element is is sort of present and 107 00:05:06,507 --> 00:05:08,187 is animated from one screen to another. 108 00:05:08,487 --> 00:05:11,227 So when you navigate from one screen to another, there's 109 00:05:11,387 --> 00:05:12,307 this sort of shared element. 110 00:05:12,367 --> 00:05:15,187 So it might be like an image you click on and you navigate to a sort 111 00:05:15,187 --> 00:05:16,707 of detailed view of that image. 112 00:05:17,007 --> 00:05:19,147 You have a navigation that happens in the background. 113 00:05:19,787 --> 00:05:22,287 But you want to have these on separate screens, but you wanna kinda keep 114 00:05:22,287 --> 00:05:26,087 that seamless expanding of the image animation as an example or transition. 115 00:05:26,597 --> 00:05:28,367 This is very difficult to do in React Native. 116 00:05:28,427 --> 00:05:31,407 You can kind of achieve it in some hacky ways, but it's sort of on the 117 00:05:31,407 --> 00:05:32,527 app developers to figure it out. 118 00:05:32,527 --> 00:05:35,767 There's not been like a unified API that you can use and it's usually quite hacky 119 00:05:35,767 --> 00:05:36,847 and doesn't work most of the times. 120 00:05:37,762 --> 00:05:38,892 They are working on this, 121 00:05:38,982 --> 00:05:41,772 Carl: would that be stuff like flip animations, like first, 122 00:05:41,772 --> 00:05:43,332 last, interpolate, play? 123 00:05:43,352 --> 00:05:45,532 Mo: No, I don't think it would be flip animations. 124 00:05:45,752 --> 00:05:48,932 The examples that I would give is, you know, like in Instagram as an example, 125 00:05:48,952 --> 00:05:52,772 if you're on the, the search page and you see a set of posts that are sort 126 00:05:52,772 --> 00:05:55,972 of laid out in a grid and you click on one of those posts, it expands 127 00:05:55,972 --> 00:05:57,532 out and takes over the whole screen. 128 00:05:57,532 --> 00:05:57,812 Right. 129 00:05:58,162 --> 00:06:02,002 Carl: I meant more like would the hacky interpret in the hacky implementation of. 130 00:06:02,445 --> 00:06:04,295 what should be a shared element transition? 131 00:06:04,295 --> 00:06:07,055 Would that be, is that the kind of thing somebody might use flip for? 132 00:06:08,025 --> 00:06:10,725 Mo: I'm not sure, I haven't actually seen flip, but there are some 133 00:06:10,885 --> 00:06:13,765 approaches where people have been sort of tapping into the native layer 134 00:06:13,785 --> 00:06:16,965 to be able to do that manually, but it's not gonna be quite extensible 135 00:06:17,155 --> 00:06:20,325 putting some tags and then using the native layer to do those transitions. 136 00:06:20,385 --> 00:06:24,005 So there's a few different approaches that I've seen people do some sort 137 00:06:24,005 --> 00:06:27,325 of like third party libraries that people have created as POCs more than 138 00:06:27,525 --> 00:06:29,085 anything is how I've seen it done. 139 00:06:29,625 --> 00:06:33,125 The, the, the gist of it is that there isn't really like a. Standardized 140 00:06:33,285 --> 00:06:36,685 well-defined and like well tested API to do this in React Native. 141 00:06:37,105 --> 00:06:39,845 And so that's what the Reanimated team have been working on. 142 00:06:40,515 --> 00:06:43,925 It's not out yet, but they've said that they're gonna be releasing it 143 00:06:43,925 --> 00:06:45,325 as part of this major release cycle. 144 00:06:45,465 --> 00:06:48,085 So four dot something will have. 145 00:06:48,895 --> 00:06:51,745 Some support for shared element transition, still TBC, but keep 146 00:06:51,745 --> 00:06:52,665 your eyes open for that one. 147 00:06:52,975 --> 00:06:53,265 Mark: Cool. 148 00:06:53,625 --> 00:06:56,705 Honestly, that whole discussion reinforces how many things people are doing that 149 00:06:56,705 --> 00:06:58,425 I have no experience with whatsoever. 150 00:06:58,815 --> 00:06:59,305 Carl: Love that. 151 00:06:59,375 --> 00:06:59,665 Yeah. 152 00:06:59,905 --> 00:07:03,305 I guess just to close the loop a little bit on like flip animations, like it 153 00:07:03,305 --> 00:07:05,185 reminds me a lot of shared element here. 154 00:07:05,385 --> 00:07:08,825 'cause I guess like shared element means that it doesn't like vanish. 155 00:07:09,085 --> 00:07:10,865 You know, it's one thing persists. 156 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:13,070 From this state to that state. 157 00:07:13,090 --> 00:07:14,630 That's my general understanding of it. 158 00:07:14,690 --> 00:07:20,670 And how I had done that in 2017 was, so you've got the current state, you've just 159 00:07:20,670 --> 00:07:25,830 rendered, you have something up and then you re-render and you get the new state. 160 00:07:26,625 --> 00:07:31,555 Then you have some abstraction that cracks the old state after the new state shows 161 00:07:31,575 --> 00:07:36,755 up and says, okay, this element is tagged with this animation, you know, indicator. 162 00:07:37,255 --> 00:07:40,675 And that indicator has now gone to this element in this new state. 163 00:07:41,095 --> 00:07:41,915 It used to be here. 164 00:07:42,135 --> 00:07:42,795 Now it's here. 165 00:07:42,925 --> 00:07:47,235 Let's measure it triple eight, you know, the old size versus the new size. 166 00:07:47,375 --> 00:07:51,835 And then do Aran smooth transition, you know, generate a CSS animation to make 167 00:07:51,835 --> 00:07:53,595 it look like it's the same element. 168 00:07:54,335 --> 00:07:57,225 Mo: Yeah, it gets a little bit more complicated in the native world 169 00:07:57,225 --> 00:08:02,265 because these are different sort of screens that are different view nodes 170 00:08:02,265 --> 00:08:05,265 on the native layer, you'd need to have a little bit more control over 171 00:08:05,325 --> 00:08:07,745 how you do that on the native layer, the native layer might override it. 172 00:08:07,745 --> 00:08:10,745 If you write that JavaScript logic as an example, it definitely needed some 173 00:08:10,745 --> 00:08:13,025 native components to be able to handle it. 174 00:08:13,355 --> 00:08:16,065 Under the hood, the algorithm and the native layer will do something very 175 00:08:16,065 --> 00:08:19,865 similar, which is first screen, screen A has this size for this element. 176 00:08:20,445 --> 00:08:21,770 Screen B has this size. 177 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:24,890 Let's look at the positions and interpolate the values and the, the 178 00:08:24,890 --> 00:08:28,450 zoom of it to match the target size as we're migrate, as we're opening 179 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:29,650 up the new screen as an example. 180 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:30,130 Carl: Right. 181 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:30,850 Oh, interesting. 182 00:08:30,850 --> 00:08:31,090 Okay. 183 00:08:31,090 --> 00:08:31,330 Sure. 184 00:08:31,470 --> 00:08:35,090 On native, there are things already doing that for you, so you don't 185 00:08:35,090 --> 00:08:36,410 need to hack into the, into that. 186 00:08:36,410 --> 00:08:37,650 You just need to actually support it. 187 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:38,050 Cool. 188 00:08:38,060 --> 00:08:38,530 Makes sense. 189 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:39,210 Okay. 190 00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:40,580 Mark: Probably just as well. 191 00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:43,540 We really didn't have all that many new items and new release items 192 00:08:43,570 --> 00:08:45,860 this month, given that we just sort of deep dived on that one. 193 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,060 So one other thing from the React Native world, the Infinite Red has a very 194 00:08:50,060 --> 00:08:54,780 long running boilerplate toolkit called Ignite, and they just put out version 11. 195 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,820 The big news for this one is it. 196 00:08:57,470 --> 00:08:58,880 Only sports, the new architecture. 197 00:08:59,070 --> 00:09:03,680 It's been bumped to E Expo, SDK 53, some changes to the theme 198 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:06,800 implementation and they've made it bring your own state management. 199 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:11,080 They used to default to MobX State Tree and now they've tweaked it. 200 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:13,800 So you can pick and choose how you want your state to be 201 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:14,800 handled within the new app. 202 00:09:14,830 --> 00:09:18,200 Mo: There's a little bit of context here, which is that the maintainers of 203 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,840 this library, infinite Red, have been very opinionated on Malbecs being the 204 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,680 best sort of tool for React Native. 205 00:09:25,270 --> 00:09:26,620 State management there. 206 00:09:26,620 --> 00:09:28,500 There's some some reasons behind that. 207 00:09:28,610 --> 00:09:33,100 Like Mob State Tree is quite good in terms of sort of heavy memorization 208 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,980 and that can really affect performance if you don't have stuff like that and 209 00:09:36,980 --> 00:09:38,100 React native or you're not careful. 210 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,060 So I think they were trying to set some practices that they were used to. 211 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,580 Mark: And also I believe Jamon from Infinite Red was the maintainer of 212 00:09:45,730 --> 00:09:49,420 MobX State Tree for a number of years, and he either still is or recently 213 00:09:49,420 --> 00:09:50,860 handed it off to somebody I think. 214 00:09:51,500 --> 00:09:53,770 Mo: Might be that he was maintaining it to some degree. 215 00:09:53,770 --> 00:09:54,010 Yeah. 216 00:09:54,270 --> 00:09:56,450 Mark: So I mean there was, there was a very understandable preference there. 217 00:09:56,590 --> 00:09:59,410 Mo: So the main maintainer of MobX and MobX State Tree as far as I'm 218 00:09:59,410 --> 00:10:00,930 aware is Michelle West Streett. 219 00:10:00,930 --> 00:10:02,210 From WHO, who works at Meta, 220 00:10:02,770 --> 00:10:05,170 Mark: I think Michelle handed off MobX State Tree to into 221 00:10:05,180 --> 00:10:06,210 Jamon a number of years ago. 222 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:06,850 Okay, cool. 223 00:10:07,150 --> 00:10:08,330 Didn't know about that really. 224 00:10:08,330 --> 00:10:08,730 That's fair enough. 225 00:10:08,750 --> 00:10:09,290 Carl: Oh, interesting. 226 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:10,560 I didn't know that 227 00:10:10,940 --> 00:10:12,400 Mark: he spiked MobX State Tree. 228 00:10:12,860 --> 00:10:15,360 And then it's like, okay, I've, I've proven I can build this, 229 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,560 but I don't have time to maintain it would someone else like to? 230 00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:18,080 Cool. 231 00:10:18,390 --> 00:10:20,760 Onto the main content for today? 232 00:10:21,060 --> 00:10:25,440 The big news this month is that the React team has written completely 233 00:10:25,650 --> 00:10:27,680 brand new docs for the React compiler. 234 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:32,080 Not only did they put them up as a PR this month, that PR has been 235 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,320 merged and the new docs are now live. 236 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,440 Previously there was just a single page under the installation setup section 237 00:10:39,860 --> 00:10:45,680 of the React Docs that gave some amount of details, and now the React compiler 238 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:51,440 has its own top level section with multiple pages under both the learn and 239 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,160 reference sections of the React docs. 240 00:10:54,250 --> 00:10:55,960 These sections cover a lot of things. 241 00:10:56,970 --> 00:10:58,100 What is the compiler? 242 00:10:58,330 --> 00:10:59,100 What does it do? 243 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:00,220 How does it work? 244 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,100 Should I try it out? 245 00:11:02,690 --> 00:11:03,980 What build tools do it? 246 00:11:04,090 --> 00:11:04,860 Does it work with? 247 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,020 How do I install it? 248 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,580 How can I incrementally adopt the compiler? 249 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,300 As well as some reference section information, talking about configuring 250 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:16,140 it and some of the concepts it includes. 251 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,300 And even like if I'm a library author, should I pre-compiled my library 252 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,260 bundle to make use of the compiler? 253 00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:25,920 So it's very clear that they've been looking at some of the discussion 254 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,000 threads where people have complained that, you know, it doesn't feel 255 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,600 like it's ready for adoption yet. 256 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,440 I don't know if it, you know, I don't know how to configure it. 257 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:37,800 And they've taken a lot of that to heart and put together some 258 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,680 pretty good docs to try to actually address a lot of those points. 259 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:47,600 We noted that the, if you look at the expo docs, there is currently a 260 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,320 section that says that their integration with the React compiler is on hold, 261 00:11:53,060 --> 00:11:57,120 but that may be superseded because I saw a tweet from Evan Bacon just 262 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,000 earlier today where he said that we are actually going to enable the React 263 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,520 compiler by default in Expo version 54. 264 00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:10,480 And along with that, the compiler docs themselves in the introduction section. 265 00:12:11,585 --> 00:12:16,385 Actually say like, should I try the compiler and is it safe to use? 266 00:12:16,845 --> 00:12:20,665 And they specifically say at this point, we encourage everyone to start using it. 267 00:12:21,055 --> 00:12:24,385 It's still optional, but it's in release candidate. 268 00:12:24,445 --> 00:12:25,385 It is safe to use. 269 00:12:25,415 --> 00:12:28,545 It's been tested in production and we really would like 270 00:12:28,545 --> 00:12:30,025 people to actually try it out. 271 00:12:30,565 --> 00:12:31,145 Of course they do. 272 00:12:31,325 --> 00:12:31,705 Oh yeah. 273 00:12:31,805 --> 00:12:36,225 But I mean it's, it's a pretty big vote of confidence that this is not just a whim. 274 00:12:36,865 --> 00:12:40,515 That it is something they're very serious about, that it is basically ready for 275 00:12:40,515 --> 00:12:43,835 release and that they would like to see the ecosystem start adopting it. 276 00:12:43,985 --> 00:12:44,875 Carl: Yeah, makes sense. 277 00:12:45,595 --> 00:12:51,475 I am not super thrilled about seeing more function directives being introduced here. 278 00:12:51,585 --> 00:12:56,195 Like I'm on record for like the past two years here, being frustrated with 279 00:12:56,675 --> 00:13:00,995 introducing more and more directives, and so seeing now basically a compiler 280 00:13:01,065 --> 00:13:03,475 flag for memorize or don't memorize this. 281 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,780 As the, uh, incremental adoption method. 282 00:13:07,340 --> 00:13:08,060 I just don't like it. 283 00:13:08,290 --> 00:13:09,500 It's, it feels like magic. 284 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:10,420 It feels gross. 285 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:11,220 I don't like it. 286 00:13:11,300 --> 00:13:12,180 I don't like directives. 287 00:13:12,490 --> 00:13:13,540 They scare me. 288 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,340 Mark: Couple other compiler bits of news. 289 00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:19,860 There was some discussion on Twitter, I believe, where Joseph from the 290 00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:24,580 React compiler team gave a little bit of background on who had worked on 291 00:13:24,580 --> 00:13:28,660 the compiler, some of the timelines and some of the influences, and then 292 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,580 the compiler right now has a couple limitations in terms of tool support. 293 00:13:33,470 --> 00:13:40,570 One is that while the 90% of the compiler code is its own independent true compiler, 294 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,730 currently the only way to integrate with that and actually use it is via 295 00:13:46,010 --> 00:13:50,250 a babble plugin shell around it, which also means you have to have babble. 296 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:54,070 In your build pipeline, and a lot of people are not happy about that. 297 00:13:54,370 --> 00:13:55,390 We got rid of babble. 298 00:13:55,410 --> 00:14:00,750 We use, we use SWC, we use, you know, whatever other, you know, ES build 299 00:14:00,750 --> 00:14:02,350 something that's not babble anymore. 300 00:14:02,770 --> 00:14:06,230 And so there's been lots of questions about, you know, when will they get around 301 00:14:06,610 --> 00:14:09,310 to offering a non babble integration? 302 00:14:09,890 --> 00:14:11,630 No timeline on that yet. 303 00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:17,190 But as a related part of that, the lint rules that React 304 00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:19,270 offers are also ES lint based. 305 00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:24,200 And we now have other winters like biome and oxalate that are not 306 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,280 ES lint and not esent compatible. 307 00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:30,720 So there was a pretty good thread between the React compiler team and 308 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:35,400 the oxalate team talking about like what would it take to make React 309 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,200 compiler and the React ES lint rules. 310 00:14:39,110 --> 00:14:43,190 Runnable inside oxalate, and there's a bunch of low level technical details 311 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,390 about, you know, js rust interop and, and some of the complexities 312 00:14:47,390 --> 00:14:48,230 that might be needed there. 313 00:14:48,570 --> 00:14:53,190 So the answer is probably not anytime soon, but there's discussions about 314 00:14:53,190 --> 00:14:54,390 what it might take to make that happen. 315 00:14:55,185 --> 00:14:59,115 Carl: Yeah, and circling back to your, you know, good thread with like some 316 00:14:59,515 --> 00:15:03,875 timeline and influences and whatever frustration I have, this is like such 317 00:15:03,955 --> 00:15:08,795 a, this is exactly the same problem that React and I guess web and like development 318 00:15:08,795 --> 00:15:09,915 in general has had for a long time. 319 00:15:09,975 --> 00:15:12,515 But like all of that happened on Twitter and like that's great 320 00:15:12,665 --> 00:15:14,435 knowledge and such good resource. 321 00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:18,830 But the guy who asked the question asked it on his private alt. 322 00:15:18,930 --> 00:15:23,030 So like, if you are not one of the, you know, 1100 approved people 323 00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,670 that he has granted access to see his thoughts, you can't see what 324 00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:27,830 was asked, just the response. 325 00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:29,230 So at least you can see the response. 326 00:15:29,230 --> 00:15:29,670 That's nice. 327 00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:32,710 But I wish they'd put something like this in like, I don't know, an 328 00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:34,310 introspective blog post or whatever. 329 00:15:34,770 --> 00:15:34,990 So. 330 00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:38,650 I'm just gonna keep shouting at clouds throughout this episode, I think. 331 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:39,330 Cool. 332 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:39,770 Cool. 333 00:15:39,770 --> 00:15:40,530 Let's move on though, 334 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,810 Mark: even before we get there. 335 00:15:41,890 --> 00:15:44,330 I found the article I was looking for, it was indeed in Tech 336 00:15:44,420 --> 00:15:45,490 reads the news a few weeks ago. 337 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:52,370 This was in linking a post on directives, prologues and JS Dark Matter, which 338 00:15:52,370 --> 00:15:57,090 was an archeological explanation of how things like JSX, pragmas and 339 00:15:57,450 --> 00:15:59,010 function directives and magic comments. 340 00:15:59,625 --> 00:16:04,035 Have all been used to indicate to build tools, Hey, do something different with 341 00:16:04,035 --> 00:16:05,555 this code than what you would expect. 342 00:16:05,555 --> 00:16:06,315 Just reading it. 343 00:16:06,425 --> 00:16:06,875 Carl: Love that. 344 00:16:06,875 --> 00:16:07,715 That is actually really good. 345 00:16:07,975 --> 00:16:12,195 And like basically this is all just communicating with different 346 00:16:12,195 --> 00:16:16,035 levels of abstraction between like runtime and source code. 347 00:16:16,055 --> 00:16:21,355 So it's like, I don't know, the linter or the formatter or the, I don't know. 348 00:16:21,435 --> 00:16:24,155 I guess you don't really do tests so much there, you just do it elsewhere. 349 00:16:24,655 --> 00:16:28,765 But the compiler, or transpiler compiler is now a fuzzy, overloaded 350 00:16:28,765 --> 00:16:32,205 term, and I guess they all make sense for one reason or another, but 351 00:16:32,235 --> 00:16:35,685 something about directives and the way that they like persist through. 352 00:16:36,165 --> 00:16:38,925 I prefer a magic comment, like at least a magic comment is like very 353 00:16:38,925 --> 00:16:41,405 clearly something like not runtime. 354 00:16:41,925 --> 00:16:43,605 I don't know, something about it feels wrong. 355 00:16:44,185 --> 00:16:44,405 The 356 00:16:44,405 --> 00:16:46,805 Mark: fact that a directive is just a string hanging out there. 357 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Carl: I dunno. 358 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:48,200 It seems weird. 359 00:16:48,380 --> 00:16:50,680 And since it is just a string, like why not a magic comment? 360 00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:51,840 Ah, I don't know. 361 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,240 Maybe there was some kind of weird esoteric, like the compiler, you 362 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,680 know, the, all the various compilers and whatever, transpilers, and ASTs 363 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,880 transformers are all like, maybe they muck with comments and whatever, but 364 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,760 also like the compiler requires that you put it first in your Babel so it 365 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,885 gets the untransformed code anyway, so that doesn't sound right to me. 366 00:17:13,005 --> 00:17:13,405 I don't know. 367 00:17:13,735 --> 00:17:14,965 Weird doesn't seem necessary. 368 00:17:15,325 --> 00:17:19,445 I guess the root of my angst here is that like when they introduced the "use strict" 369 00:17:19,445 --> 00:17:24,045 directive, like when they introduced the concept of a directive, they 370 00:17:24,045 --> 00:17:25,565 said, we're never gonna do this again. 371 00:17:25,565 --> 00:17:26,405 Like, don't do this. 372 00:17:26,405 --> 00:17:27,045 This is bad. 373 00:17:27,105 --> 00:17:30,445 We should, we shouldn't have had to do this, but we did because weird legacy 374 00:17:30,485 --> 00:17:32,405 concerns don't do any more of these. 375 00:17:32,665 --> 00:17:34,925 Mark: And then the community decided, okay, now we got a 376 00:17:34,925 --> 00:17:35,965 new mechanism to play with. 377 00:17:36,105 --> 00:17:38,085 Carl: We got like, how many do we have for React now? 378 00:17:38,085 --> 00:17:38,205 Like. 379 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,200 I can think of four off the top of my head. 380 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,040 Mark: Client server memo. 381 00:17:42,380 --> 00:17:42,840 No memo. 382 00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:43,680 Carl: Yep. 383 00:17:44,030 --> 00:17:44,320 Okay. 384 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,880 Maybe four, but like, come on. 385 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,040 That's 400% increase from one. 386 00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:48,760 Come on. 387 00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:52,320 Mo: Now you can have two at the top of one file, which is gonna look weird. 388 00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:54,240 It's gonna take some time getting used to that one. 389 00:17:54,270 --> 00:17:54,560 Wait, 390 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,120 Carl: can those even, are the, is that even compatible? 391 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,320 'cause it's gotta be, the directive has to be the first line. 392 00:17:58,840 --> 00:17:58,960 I 393 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,000 Mo: don't know how that would even work. 394 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:01,360 Moving right along. 395 00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:03,920 Alright, so back into React Native World. 396 00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:09,610 The folks at call Stack have been working on some other projects under 397 00:18:09,670 --> 00:18:12,970 the, under the smoke screens, and it's some cool stuff that they've released. 398 00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:16,450 They've basically enabled Node API support at a very basic, primitive level. 399 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,290 They're, they're working, still working on this. 400 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,050 They've made some good headway with this. 401 00:18:20,975 --> 00:18:23,395 So they're bringing Node API support into React native. 402 00:18:23,655 --> 00:18:28,195 Now, not to be confused with node itself, node API is basically like a 403 00:18:28,195 --> 00:18:35,635 mechanism by node js that allows you to use C based languages to interact from 404 00:18:35,635 --> 00:18:37,475 JavaScript code to call native code. 405 00:18:38,055 --> 00:18:41,635 And so you can write native add-ons in CC plus plus. 406 00:18:42,335 --> 00:18:43,545 Even rust or swift. 407 00:18:43,925 --> 00:18:47,065 And then they can be used and ingested by JavaScript applications. 408 00:18:47,565 --> 00:18:50,065 So there's a few reasons for doing this and it, it really goes more 409 00:18:50,065 --> 00:18:51,545 into the internals of React Native. 410 00:18:51,685 --> 00:18:56,385 And you know what this means for library maintainers, for built tool maintainers, 411 00:18:56,405 --> 00:18:58,705 and for really meta itself as well. 412 00:18:59,125 --> 00:19:01,825 But the two key things here is faster build times. 413 00:19:02,580 --> 00:19:06,760 And closer convergence with native web libraries that may already exist 414 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,200 and be using the node API mechanism. 415 00:19:09,420 --> 00:19:13,200 So at a first level build times, and I think this is the bit that will 416 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,720 affect users more than anyone else is. 417 00:19:16,575 --> 00:19:19,980 Basically in the rate of world today, most native modules are 418 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:21,580 actually distributed a source. 419 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,140 So every time you make a build, you actually have to compile it all and do 420 00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:28,140 the build step, which is quite long. 421 00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:33,340 Building a typical rec native app somewhere around 10 to, if you've got 422 00:19:33,380 --> 00:19:36,620 a massive scale app, it could takes several tens of minutes to actually 423 00:19:36,620 --> 00:19:37,980 do the full build of the app, right? 424 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,540 But it's a long, long time now. 425 00:19:41,330 --> 00:19:44,430 You don't need to do this for like your development workflow typically, 426 00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:48,830 or that often, because you wouldn't change native dependencies every day. 427 00:19:49,210 --> 00:19:51,470 You would just do this when there's a new native dependency that's 428 00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:53,710 been introduced, but it's still a significant amount of time. 429 00:19:53,710 --> 00:19:53,990 Right? 430 00:19:54,410 --> 00:19:58,550 And so the idea is if we can get some of these prebuilt. 431 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,630 Using a mechanism like the node APIs, then we can bring this 432 00:20:03,630 --> 00:20:04,790 time down quite significantly. 433 00:20:05,490 --> 00:20:09,030 And so one of the things that they ran as a test was for a basic 434 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:12,670 sort of React Native core app that you know is just having the 435 00:20:12,670 --> 00:20:13,830 basics of React native within it. 436 00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:15,310 They think that they could bring down. 437 00:20:16,030 --> 00:20:19,850 The build time to close to seven seconds, which would be insanely fast 438 00:20:19,950 --> 00:20:21,250 in comparison to what it's today. 439 00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:25,010 So this could be some really cool stuff that's down that's coming down the line. 440 00:20:25,470 --> 00:20:29,690 The other side is that there is already an ecosystem of node API compatible 441 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,090 sort of applications and run times, and so, so many sort of libraries. 442 00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:39,640 Web API libraries like Web RTC or Web Audio Canvas. 443 00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:41,800 These are implemented with node API. 444 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:47,200 Now, they're not going to be direct one-to-one mappings for native, but 445 00:20:47,410 --> 00:20:51,960 there is already an initiative to try to, to try to align on the web API spec. 446 00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:54,840 And so this is sort of another part of that puzzle. 447 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:59,040 And so if you bring these two together, suddenly we can use sort of web APIs 448 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,400 and React native, and it could be a really, really cool future to look into. 449 00:21:02,750 --> 00:21:03,400 None of this is. 450 00:21:03,965 --> 00:21:07,170 None of this is sort of like fully there, and there's gonna be, this 451 00:21:07,170 --> 00:21:09,930 is a long term effort, but it's something that they announced this 452 00:21:09,930 --> 00:21:10,930 month, and it's quite exciting. 453 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:16,330 Carl: I've had enough struggles with native binaries on desktop where they're, 454 00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:20,210 you know, like intended to be compiled for just like, like mostly across, 455 00:21:20,210 --> 00:21:24,930 like upgrading, upgrading a version of that, or node versions or whatever. 456 00:21:25,390 --> 00:21:29,410 But I, I've had enough struggles and complications there to be wary. 457 00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:33,600 Of what the actual experience of using this will look like. 458 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:35,480 But this is, this is really cool. 459 00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:39,520 This just even having made enough progress at this to announce it and 460 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440 like meaningfully talk about it as a thing they desire is pretty cool. 461 00:21:43,630 --> 00:21:45,560 Very hard, really hard problem. 462 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:46,960 I'm curious how they're implementing it. 463 00:21:48,105 --> 00:21:49,155 Mo: It's definitely not trivial. 464 00:21:49,425 --> 00:21:49,715 Carl: Cool. 465 00:21:49,825 --> 00:21:51,355 Alright, moving on a bit. 466 00:21:51,695 --> 00:21:57,635 So there's been a bunch of Vercel things this week, a fair number of departures. 467 00:21:58,215 --> 00:22:01,315 I'm sure people are coming and going all the time and we just, you know, we 468 00:22:01,315 --> 00:22:02,715 can't get a comprehensive list of that. 469 00:22:02,735 --> 00:22:06,955 But they, they had a couple of relatively high profile departures in the last 470 00:22:06,955 --> 00:22:11,795 month, starting with the most notable Lee Robinson, who has been there for. 471 00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:14,080 Five years, a long time. 472 00:22:14,540 --> 00:22:15,520 Was he there before COVID? 473 00:22:15,980 --> 00:22:16,920 Mark: Not sure on the timeline. 474 00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:19,920 Like it, it felt like he'd been there much longer than that, but 475 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,360 apparently it has only been five years. 476 00:22:21,630 --> 00:22:21,920 Carl: Yeah. 477 00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:22,240 Okay. 478 00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:24,320 No, you're right because he, he put out a blog post. 479 00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:27,040 Well, anyway, I'll, I'll stop speculating on the timeline, but 480 00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:29,040 to me, he is highly identified. 481 00:22:29,905 --> 00:22:34,115 With Versel, like, you know, if I think of Versel, I think of, uh, Guillermo, 482 00:22:34,275 --> 00:22:39,915 Roush, and Leero, just like by volume of activity and like prolificness in 483 00:22:40,305 --> 00:22:45,795 content and social media interaction and blog posts and example resources. 484 00:22:45,795 --> 00:22:46,435 So just all of it. 485 00:22:46,815 --> 00:22:50,235 So he has now left Versel and is working at Cursor, which like. 486 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,930 That seems great, at least in terms of like mind share and hype and 487 00:22:54,930 --> 00:22:58,330 you know, alignment, potential, alignment with future, whatever. 488 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,290 Cursors is definitely a really hot company right now. 489 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,010 I've had some private conversations of with like, can they keep doing that? 490 00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:10,250 'cause at the end of the day they're a fork of VS code and like fork of a large 491 00:23:10,250 --> 00:23:12,530 project with 30 people working on it. 492 00:23:13,110 --> 00:23:16,715 Which I think is in the ballpark of how many employees Cursor has versus 493 00:23:17,025 --> 00:23:22,315 like Anthropic, which is, you know, a giant, huge beast with all of the money. 494 00:23:22,415 --> 00:23:23,795 So like it's cool. 495 00:23:23,925 --> 00:23:24,595 Great for him. 496 00:23:24,685 --> 00:23:28,395 Definitely there's a lot more like oxygen in the room in terms of 497 00:23:28,395 --> 00:23:31,515 excitement and like potential at cursor. 498 00:23:31,715 --> 00:23:32,595 I think so. 499 00:23:33,065 --> 00:23:33,355 Cool. 500 00:23:33,465 --> 00:23:34,475 I'll be keeping an eye on that. 501 00:23:34,515 --> 00:23:35,075 I use cursor. 502 00:23:35,775 --> 00:23:40,345 It's nice, so he'll still remain in my, I don't know, professional spheres. 503 00:23:40,445 --> 00:23:44,345 But yeah, he had a really good blog post that he put up called, UH, five Things 504 00:23:44,425 --> 00:23:45,905 I Learned From Five Years At Versa. 505 00:23:46,545 --> 00:23:47,305 I appreciated it. 506 00:23:47,645 --> 00:23:51,145 His number one was go hard at work, then go home, and he closes it 507 00:23:51,145 --> 00:23:52,865 with, when I'm offline, I'm offline. 508 00:23:52,965 --> 00:23:54,665 I'm a hundred percent focused on my wife and daughter. 509 00:23:55,205 --> 00:23:56,905 To be clear, I still get this wrong sometimes. 510 00:23:57,095 --> 00:23:59,905 It's a never ending pursuit of work, life, harmony, takeaway. 511 00:23:59,965 --> 00:24:02,585 You can work really hard and set clear boundaries. 512 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,090 I'll say That's hard. 513 00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:06,170 I struggle with that. 514 00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:08,010 I don't, I don't have a wife, I don't have kids. 515 00:24:08,550 --> 00:24:13,410 So like in that section he talks about like responding to tweets from the beach 516 00:24:13,470 --> 00:24:17,810 on his honeymoon and like, yes, I want to believe that you can work really 517 00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:21,810 hard and set clear boundaries to where you're not working on vacation doing, you 518 00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:26,850 know, social media comms work from the beach, but also like if you're not there. 519 00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:31,395 Like, people aren't gonna wait three days for you to get back from vacation to, 520 00:24:31,695 --> 00:24:33,195 you know, get the authoritative answer. 521 00:24:33,195 --> 00:24:37,555 Like, if they ask a question, then like, the person who is Johnny on the spot 522 00:24:37,985 --> 00:24:42,835 answering it in their time of need, like they are gonna get the, I don't know, 523 00:24:42,835 --> 00:24:45,595 the kudos, the energy they're gonna, you know, people are gonna start gravitating 524 00:24:45,595 --> 00:24:47,115 towards them for future questions. 525 00:24:47,615 --> 00:24:48,035 I'm like, that's. 526 00:24:48,835 --> 00:24:53,485 This going so hard is how Leero managed to get that level of 527 00:24:53,485 --> 00:24:54,725 status, like in my own brain. 528 00:24:55,185 --> 00:24:57,885 And so I wanna believe you can work really hard and set clear boundaries. 529 00:24:58,185 --> 00:24:59,205 I'm not always so sure about that. 530 00:24:59,445 --> 00:24:59,965 I, I dunno. 531 00:25:00,005 --> 00:25:03,965 I wrote, I actually wrote a little blog post kind of on that 532 00:25:03,965 --> 00:25:05,885 subject almost exactly a year ago. 533 00:25:06,435 --> 00:25:07,085 I'll link it here. 534 00:25:07,125 --> 00:25:08,325 I probably won't put it in the transcript. 535 00:25:09,335 --> 00:25:13,305 Just kind of talking about that general thing and like I, I had a 536 00:25:13,305 --> 00:25:15,905 kind of similar experience to what he describes here of like, going really 537 00:25:15,905 --> 00:25:21,185 hard and like poor boundaries and like burnout and all of the, a lot 538 00:25:21,185 --> 00:25:22,705 of the benefits, a lot of the costs. 539 00:25:23,005 --> 00:25:25,865 And what I kinda realized is that like, I don't know that I could have 540 00:25:26,665 --> 00:25:30,905 achieved the kind of success that I got without that level of burnout and 541 00:25:31,425 --> 00:25:35,145 I don't know, poor boundary setting because like, it's because I gave. 542 00:25:35,955 --> 00:25:40,215 All of my attention to maybe not just work, like some of, a lot of my attention, 543 00:25:40,315 --> 00:25:44,575 you know, the full-time work, but also investing in things like reactive flex 544 00:25:44,875 --> 00:25:49,255 or just learning new tools and staying on top of the cutting edge outside of work. 545 00:25:50,335 --> 00:25:53,705 Like that was really poorly boundaried and like fully throughout my 546 00:25:53,825 --> 00:25:56,745 twenties, I ignored a lot of myself. 547 00:25:57,105 --> 00:26:01,065 I just really think that that is, I wanna believe that you can succeed and achieve 548 00:26:01,085 --> 00:26:06,065 big success without giving up that kind of, I don't know, intimacy with yourself. 549 00:26:06,405 --> 00:26:08,665 But I don't know that you can, I don't know, it seems really hard. 550 00:26:09,210 --> 00:26:12,630 And it, it just notable to me that like the only people I see talking 551 00:26:12,630 --> 00:26:16,270 about that and like saying things like, you can work really hard and 552 00:26:16,450 --> 00:26:19,790 set clear boundaries are the people who had poor boundaries, achieved 553 00:26:19,790 --> 00:26:21,630 success, and are now reflecting on it. 554 00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:22,270 So, I don't know. 555 00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:22,590 Mark: Yeah. 556 00:26:22,770 --> 00:26:26,990 It, it is tough, but I, I have a, I have a lot of respect for Lee Rob and that 557 00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:30,550 the work and effort that he's put in, when I just think of the word derel, 558 00:26:30,810 --> 00:26:32,670 he is the first that comes to mind. 559 00:26:33,485 --> 00:26:37,065 He, he's always, you know, omnipresent in any kind of Reddit 560 00:26:37,065 --> 00:26:40,345 or Hacker News or Twitter thread that mentions Versel and Next. 561 00:26:40,765 --> 00:26:44,025 And, you know, even if you maybe, you know, at times disagreed with, 562 00:26:44,285 --> 00:26:47,425 you know, what he was saying or representing the company wine, he 563 00:26:47,945 --> 00:26:52,225 absolutely like did a great job of being there and answering questions 564 00:26:52,525 --> 00:26:54,665 and, and being involved in reaching out. 565 00:26:55,015 --> 00:26:59,225 It's definitely a loss for Versel and when I wrote my React Community 566 00:26:59,225 --> 00:27:04,925 article, you know, recently, I had a line in there about Versal had 567 00:27:05,405 --> 00:27:10,885 a large Dere team that updated the next docs, and he corrected me. 568 00:27:10,885 --> 00:27:12,965 It's like, no, there were two of us at that point. 569 00:27:13,165 --> 00:27:14,485 I was like, oh, whoops. 570 00:27:14,605 --> 00:27:15,205 I got that wrong. 571 00:27:15,585 --> 00:27:20,645 It seemed like you had a large team because you were doing so much work. 572 00:27:21,175 --> 00:27:21,525 Carl: Right? 573 00:27:21,945 --> 00:27:22,845 So, yeah, I don't know. 574 00:27:23,310 --> 00:27:26,955 From the comment, from the, from chat, from re Sam, bit of taking advice from 575 00:27:26,955 --> 00:27:29,835 lottery winners, vibe occasionally like, yeah, that's, that's what it is. 576 00:27:29,935 --> 00:27:31,995 It sounds like survivor bias, things like that. 577 00:27:32,255 --> 00:27:35,795 Anyway, this is, we're already like kind of far afield from where we started here. 578 00:27:35,795 --> 00:27:38,595 This was talking about Versel and some of their updates. 579 00:27:38,865 --> 00:27:39,595 This was a good piece. 580 00:27:39,975 --> 00:27:41,995 Lee Rob, wish him the best at cursor. 581 00:27:42,105 --> 00:27:43,315 I'll be paying attention still. 582 00:27:44,275 --> 00:27:48,735 The, uh, creator of SWC also left Versal. 583 00:27:49,005 --> 00:27:53,935 He's taken some time to, to rest and focus back on, uh, SWC again, so that's great. 584 00:27:54,035 --> 00:27:57,175 I'm not as familiar with him as a, you know, individual human, 585 00:27:57,795 --> 00:27:59,215 but I am familiar with s wc. 586 00:27:59,355 --> 00:27:59,895 So cool. 587 00:28:00,045 --> 00:28:00,855 Good luck to him. 588 00:28:01,045 --> 00:28:01,455 Love that. 589 00:28:01,875 --> 00:28:08,095 And another prolific react ecosystem speaker and like educator, Sam 590 00:28:08,095 --> 00:28:11,975 Selikoff joined Versal to do content and some other things. 591 00:28:12,780 --> 00:28:15,960 His Twitter feed is all like, all about ramping up and like, you 592 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,040 know, spinning up on a new team. 593 00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:19,800 So that's, that's a fun, that's a fun moment in time. 594 00:28:20,030 --> 00:28:22,720 Team transitions and gathering context in a new spot. 595 00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,640 Mark: And then overall, and not, not react, but adjacent. 596 00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:33,200 So next is the view ecosystem equivalent to next Js. 597 00:28:34,195 --> 00:28:37,975 And Versel had already picked up, you know, rich Harris who builds 598 00:28:38,295 --> 00:28:43,175 Svel, possibly one or two other non-reactive framework authors as well. 599 00:28:43,795 --> 00:28:50,735 And VL actually just acquired whatever group or company has been behind N and is 600 00:28:50,735 --> 00:28:55,455 hiring all of the developers, including Daniel Grow, who I think is the, the lead. 601 00:28:55,830 --> 00:29:01,360 Developer maintainer for N So you know, Versal is not just about react like they, 602 00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:05,800 they are sort of putting their money where their mouth is and trying to back many 603 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:11,120 different tools that, you know, build apps and of course can be run on versal. 604 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:11,520 That's 605 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,980 Carl: got me curious about what kind of like corporate structure is behind Nuxt. 606 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,440 'cause like, you know, if it's individual developers then like. 607 00:29:18,970 --> 00:29:20,630 You can't acquire that, you just hire them. 608 00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:24,910 Mark: I think next Labs may be an actual company, but I don't know how much of 609 00:29:24,990 --> 00:29:29,270 a like profit seeking company it is versus some kind of little holding thing. 610 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:29,910 Carl: Right. 611 00:29:30,170 --> 00:29:31,830 I'm now, I'm on the next website. 612 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:35,470 I see next UI Pro, A hub for managing apps. 613 00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:39,640 So I guess like deployment and then like a visual editor. 614 00:29:39,940 --> 00:29:42,280 And I see some reference to courses and stuff too, so like, 615 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,200 yeah, that sounds like a business. 616 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,800 That sounds like they're selling products. 617 00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:49,280 Kind of a mishmash of various different open source monetization techniques there. 618 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:49,520 So. 619 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:49,720 Cool. 620 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:49,960 Nice. 621 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:50,560 That's good to know. 622 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:51,280 I appreciate that. 623 00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:56,360 Love someone who's trying to take a project and turn it into a business Relat. 624 00:29:56,975 --> 00:29:58,245 Another smaller update. 625 00:29:58,245 --> 00:30:04,060 This is like barely an update, but I've been tracking A an RFC, actually 626 00:30:04,060 --> 00:30:09,740 an RFC that Lee Robb started back in April on deployment adapters for next 627 00:30:10,170 --> 00:30:11,900 from Versal, basically making it. 628 00:30:13,135 --> 00:30:18,185 More robust and reliable, I guess, to deploy next projects to infrastructure 629 00:30:18,215 --> 00:30:19,865 that isn't hosted on Versal. 630 00:30:20,005 --> 00:30:25,345 So the, a staff engineer from Netlify gave a response that's pretty lengthy, pretty 631 00:30:25,345 --> 00:30:29,225 serious, you know, it's got like, you list six gaps and 10 questions and four 632 00:30:29,225 --> 00:30:31,425 suggestions, mostly minor suggestions. 633 00:30:32,495 --> 00:30:37,185 It's just cool to see that moving along slowly and I question the momentum 634 00:30:37,405 --> 00:30:38,945 now that Lee Robb is no longer there. 635 00:30:39,215 --> 00:30:41,385 It's just really hard to hand off major projects like that, 636 00:30:41,385 --> 00:30:42,625 major initiatives like that. 637 00:30:43,125 --> 00:30:44,065 But yeah, that's cool. 638 00:30:44,135 --> 00:30:44,425 Neat. 639 00:30:44,615 --> 00:30:45,225 Love to see it. 640 00:30:45,495 --> 00:30:45,785 Mark: Okay. 641 00:30:46,225 --> 00:30:48,145 Somewhat smaller item, but definitely worth calling out. 642 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,780 So Ryan Carniato, the author of Solid, is, you know, pretty much the 643 00:30:52,780 --> 00:30:56,820 world's foremost expert on signals as a state management mechanism. 644 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,660 And there was a lot of back and forth and chatter, and I think we even 645 00:30:59,860 --> 00:31:04,580 referred to some of it in our, in our last talk about like Ryan for and 646 00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:08,940 Michael Jackson from Remix were kind of questioning like, why does Signals exist? 647 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,180 Why do you know? 648 00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:12,420 Why do these different frameworks look sort of the same? 649 00:31:13,155 --> 00:31:16,815 And I think somewhat inspired by some of those questions and discussion. 650 00:31:17,165 --> 00:31:23,415 Ryan put together a 10 minute video on React and Signals what every React 651 00:31:23,415 --> 00:31:25,655 developer should know about signals. 652 00:31:26,075 --> 00:31:31,575 And Ryan like me is very big on history and context and explaining how we 653 00:31:31,575 --> 00:31:35,175 got from past tools and decisions to current tools and decisions. 654 00:31:36,235 --> 00:31:40,175 He goes into some, some of the history of signals, you know, they originated 655 00:31:40,205 --> 00:31:45,415 with early JavaScript frameworks like Knockout, but the concepts and 656 00:31:45,415 --> 00:31:49,135 implementation of signals have evolved significantly in the last 15 years ago. 657 00:31:49,475 --> 00:31:53,335 And so he talks about some of the actual technical advantages of signals. 658 00:31:54,195 --> 00:31:56,295 And then he also does some, some myth busting. 659 00:31:56,295 --> 00:31:58,335 You know, he pushes back and says they're not magic. 660 00:31:58,765 --> 00:31:59,735 They do scale. 661 00:32:00,415 --> 00:32:04,695 A lot of other frameworks like Angular and View rely on signals to make them faster. 662 00:32:05,155 --> 00:32:09,215 And he also talks about comparisons between like, what's the difference 663 00:32:09,215 --> 00:32:14,735 between three ACT compiler and signals or reacts virtual dumb in signals. 664 00:32:15,115 --> 00:32:18,295 And I think what a lot of that sums down to is that in react. 665 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,140 The component is the smallest unit of update granularity, like you set state, 666 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,140 at least one component will re-render the whole component renders, and then 667 00:32:29,140 --> 00:32:33,260 maybe only a few bit bits of it need to be applied, but you had to run the whole 668 00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:35,020 component to see what needed to change. 669 00:32:35,290 --> 00:32:40,380 Whereas with signals, it's this one value changed and it's more 670 00:32:40,660 --> 00:32:41,700 directly attached to the output. 671 00:32:42,410 --> 00:32:45,350 And so only the bits of the output that actually relied 672 00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:46,790 on that need to be calculated. 673 00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:51,110 And it's not an earth shaking discussion, but given that there's been a lot 674 00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:54,830 of hype and discussion and arguing back and forth, it's a good overview. 675 00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:57,070 Looking at some of like. 676 00:32:57,555 --> 00:33:01,405 Some of the pros, cons, concepts, and myths around signals. 677 00:33:01,675 --> 00:33:02,565 Carl: Yeah, I missed that. 678 00:33:02,685 --> 00:33:06,045 I need to give that a watch because I hold a number of myths and 679 00:33:06,045 --> 00:33:08,405 misconceptions about signals, and I would like to understand them better. 680 00:33:08,755 --> 00:33:09,045 Yeah. 681 00:33:09,275 --> 00:33:09,565 Mo: Nice. 682 00:33:09,915 --> 00:33:12,845 Next up, we have another release. 683 00:33:13,105 --> 00:33:14,645 So we've been talking about this for a few months. 684 00:33:15,565 --> 00:33:19,465 On and off because it's been sort of an RC mode, but React Native Uni 685 00:33:19,465 --> 00:33:21,465 Styles 3.0 has finally been released. 686 00:33:21,805 --> 00:33:24,945 Now there's a few points to sort of hit here. 687 00:33:25,665 --> 00:33:30,385 Uni Styles came out as sort of like a very performant, lightweight styling 688 00:33:30,385 --> 00:33:33,905 option for React Native because there's a lot of styling libraries that are 689 00:33:33,905 --> 00:33:36,425 quite complex and have a lot of. 690 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,005 Stuff included within it. 691 00:33:38,065 --> 00:33:41,365 But the challenge with a lot of those is that it also comes with a little bit of a 692 00:33:41,365 --> 00:33:44,765 performance hit because you've got a lot more being bundled into your application. 693 00:33:45,485 --> 00:33:49,565 Uni styles is, is sort of since then being this sort of lightweight JavaScript 694 00:33:49,565 --> 00:33:53,805 only implementation has has dug into this sort of performance space a bit more. 695 00:33:54,345 --> 00:33:59,165 And this newest release is really digging into the new architecture with with 696 00:33:59,165 --> 00:34:03,085 Fabric, which is the new render and it uses native code and c plus plus. 697 00:34:03,860 --> 00:34:09,400 To basically bypass the JavaScript layer when possible and keeps us 698 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,520 track of the styling dependencies in c plus plus, and we'll only update 699 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,960 affected styles and components on the native layer as much as possible. 700 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,280 Again, this is like some things are possible on the native layer. 701 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:20,800 Some things aren't. 702 00:34:21,610 --> 00:34:25,350 In terms of styling and, and the visuals of it, but as much as it 703 00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:29,430 can possibly do, it does that in the native layer and avoids re-render. 704 00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:33,550 The maintainer kind likens this to CSS on the web in that it's not 705 00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:36,150 handled by JavaScript, but it's a different layer that that handles it. 706 00:34:36,410 --> 00:34:40,030 On top of that, added a bunch of extra functionality through a babble plug 707 00:34:40,090 --> 00:34:44,070 plugin to handle things like theming, break points, orientation, font 708 00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:47,510 scale, and maybe even right to left styling if you need that for your app. 709 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,460 And so the by and large, the biggest thing here is that there is a performance boost 710 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,260 and they've done some measurements to, to show how much of a performance boost 711 00:34:56,260 --> 00:34:59,180 you can get because of these safe three renders that would've previously been 712 00:34:59,180 --> 00:35:00,900 happening because of styling changes. 713 00:35:01,550 --> 00:35:05,940 Other noteworthy things to mention are that there's some new features 714 00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:09,860 around sort of variance or scoped themes and so on and so forth. 715 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,940 You can go read through the blog post in more details to understand 716 00:35:12,940 --> 00:35:15,740 what are the sort of more granular new features that exist. 717 00:35:16,345 --> 00:35:19,965 But also given that this is sort of a universal library that works 718 00:35:19,965 --> 00:35:23,645 on web and native, there is a new web functionality as well. 719 00:35:24,035 --> 00:35:27,005 Some web only styles, some pseudo classes that they've introduced 720 00:35:27,105 --> 00:35:30,565 and some support for class names that would be targeting the web. 721 00:35:30,825 --> 00:35:34,965 So there's some stuff around web support as well, which is quite interesting. 722 00:35:35,305 --> 00:35:36,845 But yeah, that's Uni Cells 3.0. 723 00:35:36,845 --> 00:35:38,205 Give it a give it, give it a quick look. 724 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:39,090 Cool. 725 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:39,810 Love that. 726 00:35:39,810 --> 00:35:42,970 Mark: Finally, we have a couple different, uh, react server component updates. 727 00:35:43,230 --> 00:35:48,370 The React Router team has been iterating for a while on their work in progress 728 00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:52,010 server component implementation, and they've put together a blog post 729 00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:56,690 describing a path forward, so they go through some details talking about the, 730 00:35:56,870 --> 00:36:02,470 and ways you would handle things like streaming UI or in lighting data in 731 00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:07,790 existing React router framework mode versus how you might handle it with 732 00:36:07,790 --> 00:36:09,550 their server component implementation. 733 00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:12,310 And so there the summary is that. 734 00:36:12,767 --> 00:36:16,807 apparently they're going to revamp the framework mode to be built on top 735 00:36:16,827 --> 00:36:18,767 of their server component support. 736 00:36:19,117 --> 00:36:22,977 They are still labeling the server component support as unstable, 737 00:36:23,537 --> 00:36:26,437 but they do want people to try it out and give it a shot. 738 00:36:27,192 --> 00:36:31,732 So looking at some of these examples, it looks pretty significantly different usage 739 00:36:31,762 --> 00:36:34,692 wise than say like the next app router. 740 00:36:35,072 --> 00:36:38,612 It maybe looks even a little more similar to how Parcel had almost 741 00:36:38,612 --> 00:36:42,172 like a pick and choose your own server component usage approach. 742 00:36:42,552 --> 00:36:46,652 So it is very cool to see additional frameworks providing 743 00:36:46,652 --> 00:36:47,812 support for server components. 744 00:36:48,392 --> 00:36:51,732 As well as that we're starting to finally see some variation in how 745 00:36:51,732 --> 00:36:53,332 they might get used and not just. 746 00:36:54,017 --> 00:36:56,757 The way next does it is the only way to do it. 747 00:36:57,207 --> 00:37:01,077 Along with that, Devin Govett from parcel put together a pretty good 748 00:37:01,077 --> 00:37:05,597 article where he was talking about how parcel bundles, server components, 749 00:37:06,137 --> 00:37:08,477 and he goes into some background detail about like, you know, what is 750 00:37:08,477 --> 00:37:09,637 a bundle even do in the first place? 751 00:37:09,817 --> 00:37:10,317 How does it. 752 00:37:10,768 --> 00:37:12,748 You know, follow the, the module graph. 753 00:37:12,808 --> 00:37:14,428 How does it handle dynamic loading? 754 00:37:14,448 --> 00:37:15,628 How do the pieces fit together? 755 00:37:15,968 --> 00:37:20,468 And then talks about, okay, and since React server components is really a 756 00:37:20,468 --> 00:37:25,028 bundler driven feature, here's how server components actually rely and make 757 00:37:25,028 --> 00:37:26,308 use of some of those bundler aspects. 758 00:37:26,768 --> 00:37:29,468 And along with that, I think we've previously mentioned that 759 00:37:29,468 --> 00:37:31,268 there's been an in progress. 760 00:37:31,903 --> 00:37:38,553 Attempt to build RSC support directly into Vite's React plugin. 761 00:37:38,813 --> 00:37:43,113 And there's one person who appears to be steadily cranking away on 762 00:37:43,113 --> 00:37:44,873 trying to make that support possible. 763 00:37:45,533 --> 00:37:50,033 And I'm seeing a number of the to-do list items in the roadmap being checked off. 764 00:37:50,493 --> 00:37:53,033 So I don't know how far along that is. 765 00:37:54,043 --> 00:37:57,023 But it seems like a pretty serious effort to make that happen. 766 00:37:57,523 --> 00:38:01,823 So the server component ecosystem is slowly filling out. 767 00:38:02,093 --> 00:38:02,383 Carl: Yeah. 768 00:38:02,623 --> 00:38:02,823 Interesting. 769 00:38:02,943 --> 00:38:10,303 I see one of the to-do list items in that is moving waku to VJS plugin, RSC. 770 00:38:10,843 --> 00:38:11,543 That's interesting. 771 00:38:11,703 --> 00:38:14,303 'cause I, I had understood, I mean, Waku was like. 772 00:38:15,208 --> 00:38:19,768 A proof of concept implementation of like how to do a framework on RSC. 773 00:38:19,828 --> 00:38:25,008 So it's interesting to see that move from like custom one-off implementation to 774 00:38:25,598 --> 00:38:31,008 relying on a, you know, kind of delegating RSC support back into, back into Ved. 775 00:38:31,008 --> 00:38:31,368 Love to see that. 776 00:38:32,033 --> 00:38:32,573 That's cool. 777 00:38:32,828 --> 00:38:34,998 Mark: Okay, moving on to the lightning round. 778 00:38:35,228 --> 00:38:36,118 Lightning round. 779 00:38:36,578 --> 00:38:42,318 Corbin Crutchley, author of the Framework Field Guide ebook, put together a very 780 00:38:42,468 --> 00:38:46,718 lengthy deep dive, which I highly approve of, called the History of React through 781 00:38:46,718 --> 00:38:49,918 Code, where he goes back and looks at a whole bunch of different react features 782 00:38:49,918 --> 00:38:53,558 that were added over time and kind of argues that you know what these, 783 00:38:53,618 --> 00:38:55,638 the, these actually have sort of a. 784 00:38:56,203 --> 00:39:00,643 Intellectual cohesiveness a like a design cohesiveness to them and 785 00:39:00,643 --> 00:39:04,403 that they, they all, it makes sense when you look at the sequence of, 786 00:39:04,463 --> 00:39:06,443 of features and how they were added. 787 00:39:06,633 --> 00:39:11,843 Meanwhile, TK Dodo, Dominic Dorf, Meister maintainer of React query, just put up a 788 00:39:11,843 --> 00:39:17,843 post today where he has some thoughts on when use callback is actually useless. 789 00:39:18,183 --> 00:39:21,523 And I think his argument is actually, it's useless in a, in a lot more 790 00:39:21,523 --> 00:39:24,923 cases and you probably don't actually need it all that often. 791 00:39:26,183 --> 00:39:26,473 Carl: Cool. 792 00:39:26,723 --> 00:39:30,833 There was a NPM supply chain attack that was pretty interesting. 793 00:39:31,153 --> 00:39:31,713 I believe. 794 00:39:31,813 --> 00:39:37,433 The issue was that a couple of relatively high profile maintainers got phished, 795 00:39:37,893 --> 00:39:45,353 and yes, there's a phishing campaign on a typo, squatted, URL, which is NPN js.com. 796 00:39:45,853 --> 00:39:47,610 So it's a couple of major. 797 00:39:47,910 --> 00:39:52,037 Maintainers got successfully phished through that, which then, uh, stole 798 00:39:52,037 --> 00:39:56,717 their NPM credentials and published malicious versions of packages. 799 00:39:56,747 --> 00:40:00,517 Yeah, so, uh, malicious releases included lin config, prettier. 800 00:40:00,657 --> 00:40:02,877 That's big Lin plugin, prettier. 801 00:40:03,652 --> 00:40:06,897 Think kit packager, core and nappy post install. 802 00:40:06,957 --> 00:40:09,337 So the, like, most of those not so big. 803 00:40:09,617 --> 00:40:11,697 I, I haven't really heard of, heard about 'em, but yeah. 804 00:40:12,007 --> 00:40:14,097 Esly config, prettier, that's big. 805 00:40:14,317 --> 00:40:16,337 And they got version, they got major versions. 806 00:40:16,337 --> 00:40:19,227 8, 9, 10. Eight, nine, and 10. 807 00:40:19,232 --> 00:40:24,042 Okay, so make sure you're not using version 10.1, 9.1 0.1. 808 00:40:24,042 --> 00:40:26,762 Anyway, if you're using those, check it. 809 00:40:26,782 --> 00:40:29,762 If you're using ES link config, prettier or ES link plugin prettier. 810 00:40:29,762 --> 00:40:31,602 Make sure it's not a vulnerable version. 811 00:40:32,012 --> 00:40:32,922 Check your lock files. 812 00:40:33,312 --> 00:40:34,122 Yeah, that's not great. 813 00:40:34,522 --> 00:40:36,722 Mark: I know one of the other redix maintainers got the 814 00:40:36,722 --> 00:40:38,802 phishing email and avoided it. 815 00:40:39,072 --> 00:40:41,322 It's definitely semi widespread campaign. 816 00:40:41,632 --> 00:40:41,922 Carl: Wild. 817 00:40:42,232 --> 00:40:47,137 They must have hit so many people to get a couple of major vulnerabilities in. 818 00:40:47,282 --> 00:40:47,572 Cool. 819 00:40:48,232 --> 00:40:50,412 Mo: So next up, very quick one. 820 00:40:50,552 --> 00:40:54,972 You might've remembered the old expo router demo from last year's react conf, 821 00:40:54,982 --> 00:40:59,252 where they showed RSCs in the world of expo router for building an AI app. 822 00:40:59,442 --> 00:41:02,172 Something very similar to that is now an open source project that 823 00:41:02,172 --> 00:41:03,532 you can clone and play around with. 824 00:41:04,112 --> 00:41:08,212 So Evan Bacon has released a demo of an AI app that can generate. 825 00:41:08,892 --> 00:41:11,902 With AI native components and stream them in with RSCs. 826 00:41:12,132 --> 00:41:12,742 It's pretty cool. 827 00:41:12,842 --> 00:41:14,342 So clone the repo, play around with it. 828 00:41:14,612 --> 00:41:16,142 It's an interesting little demo. 829 00:41:16,392 --> 00:41:19,782 Mark: There was a Reddit thread that was asking how does Facebook 830 00:41:19,832 --> 00:41:23,942 slash meta actually build and serve their React applications? 831 00:41:24,162 --> 00:41:28,742 And some former meta engineers responded with a few technical details talking about 832 00:41:28,742 --> 00:41:34,422 how they do a bunch of dynamic bundling, and they also use, I believe Hermes or 833 00:41:34,422 --> 00:41:37,942 static Hermes on the back end to pre-build some of the server rendering pieces. 834 00:41:38,557 --> 00:41:40,017 So, you know, a little peek behind the curtain. 835 00:41:40,247 --> 00:41:40,537 Mo: Cool. 836 00:41:40,877 --> 00:41:45,017 And we talked a little bit about Nitro modules over the months, the past few 837 00:41:45,017 --> 00:41:49,297 months, there is a new library that the Margie folks folks have been working 838 00:41:49,317 --> 00:41:51,977 on called React Native Nitro Image. 839 00:41:52,277 --> 00:41:54,097 And so this is built on top of Nitro modules. 840 00:41:54,457 --> 00:41:58,657 I was actually talking with someone this morning about some of the challenges 841 00:41:58,657 --> 00:42:02,577 with images on the native layer when it comes to loading them in React Native. 842 00:42:02,677 --> 00:42:06,577 So this is very much welcome as a change to hopefully improve performance 843 00:42:06,577 --> 00:42:07,617 across the board for React native. 844 00:42:08,292 --> 00:42:10,952 Mark: One of the weaknesses of React Server components has been 845 00:42:10,952 --> 00:42:15,072 that there hasn't been a good testing story for them yet, or at 846 00:42:15,072 --> 00:42:16,272 least not one that I've heard of. 847 00:42:16,382 --> 00:42:20,192 Someone put up an article with a way to test them. 848 00:42:20,662 --> 00:42:24,832 However, it's incredibly hacky and relies on overriding some of reacts internals, 849 00:42:24,932 --> 00:42:31,072 so it's probably not a good way, but it is a way to try to test them if you like. 850 00:42:31,672 --> 00:42:34,932 And then there was a pretty good article that gave, it went into a bit of a 851 00:42:34,932 --> 00:42:40,532 technical dive and deep dive on how a company improved the interaction to Next 852 00:42:40,702 --> 00:42:46,412 Paint Web Vital Metric in their app, and gave a bunch of very practical examples 853 00:42:46,512 --> 00:42:50,332 of problems they found in their app and ways that they, they addressed those. 854 00:42:51,182 --> 00:42:51,472 Mo: Cool. 855 00:42:51,622 --> 00:42:55,632 Next up, there are some new styling properties that are being proposed 856 00:42:55,652 --> 00:42:57,312 to be added to React Native. 857 00:42:57,852 --> 00:43:02,232 So this is being done by Nishan Bede, who has been doing a lot of work 858 00:43:02,232 --> 00:43:05,192 in trying to bring some CSS styling into React Native and better support. 859 00:43:05,502 --> 00:43:08,992 This time there's a pr up that adds support for background size, 860 00:43:09,712 --> 00:43:12,392 position, and reply and, and repeat. 861 00:43:13,077 --> 00:43:16,697 So this will be quite interesting to see when and if it gets merged in. 862 00:43:16,967 --> 00:43:17,257 Carl: Yeah. 863 00:43:17,777 --> 00:43:19,537 Speaking of, I don't know, new CSS things. 864 00:43:20,077 --> 00:43:23,617 Chrome 1 37 added an if to CSS. 865 00:43:24,242 --> 00:43:29,327 There's a conditional flow, or I don't know, there's a condition now in CCSS. 866 00:43:30,007 --> 00:43:31,447 I have not seen that before. 867 00:43:31,467 --> 00:43:34,687 So I guess it's a way of, you know, you can consult the various 868 00:43:35,087 --> 00:43:40,367 variables you've set up and evaluate what the associated styles are or 869 00:43:40,367 --> 00:43:42,807 associated values and conditionally. 870 00:43:43,557 --> 00:43:44,377 Do one thing or another. 871 00:43:44,407 --> 00:43:44,697 Yeah. 872 00:43:44,727 --> 00:43:45,017 Mark: Yeah. 873 00:43:45,077 --> 00:43:47,057 It, it, it looks like it's a built-in function. 874 00:43:47,437 --> 00:43:53,457 You pass in a very, like a, an existing variable or property value as the 875 00:43:53,457 --> 00:43:57,777 first, and then it's, if it matches, then it's a, if it doesn't match, 876 00:43:57,777 --> 00:44:00,977 then it's b like, almost like an Excel function, like kind of a thing. 877 00:44:01,827 --> 00:44:02,747 Mo: Reminded me exactly of that. 878 00:44:03,087 --> 00:44:05,867 Are we finally at the stage where CSS is turning complete? 879 00:44:06,187 --> 00:44:09,867 Carl: I remember seeing a demo of turning complete CSS like 15 years 880 00:44:09,967 --> 00:44:12,587 ago if you include user input. 881 00:44:12,607 --> 00:44:16,267 So yeah, it was like a grid of check boxes and uh, I think the, the human 882 00:44:16,327 --> 00:44:19,907 had to interact with stuff, but it was turning complete, if you included that. 883 00:44:20,007 --> 00:44:23,427 Mo: So I think we just need loops and it'll technically be turn complete. 884 00:44:23,617 --> 00:44:23,907 Carl: Yeah. 885 00:44:24,632 --> 00:44:24,922 Wild. 886 00:44:25,142 --> 00:44:27,162 Anyway, that, that seems interesting and new. 887 00:44:27,592 --> 00:44:31,162 This document that I'm reading is using something else that I don't recognize. 888 00:44:31,382 --> 00:44:36,522 The, the example they have here is if style, you know, dash color, white, so I 889 00:44:36,522 --> 00:44:40,802 guess that's using a different function to read the styles of the current element. 890 00:44:41,552 --> 00:44:42,162 Something. 891 00:44:42,162 --> 00:44:44,162 That's what it looks like to me, but that's also new to me. 892 00:44:44,217 --> 00:44:48,397 So like between conditionals and being able to read the current state 893 00:44:48,397 --> 00:44:50,477 of element are, uh, interesting. 894 00:44:50,647 --> 00:44:54,637 Mark: There was a discussion thread on Blue Sky where someone, where one 895 00:44:54,637 --> 00:44:56,477 of the React team members said that. 896 00:44:57,337 --> 00:45:02,387 They were, they had tried to submit an update to React Dev Tools extension in 897 00:45:02,787 --> 00:45:07,707 Mozilla's, Firefox, add-on store, and it was getting blocked because Mozilla has 898 00:45:07,977 --> 00:45:13,587 some very specific and strict rules around how code gets built into extensions, 899 00:45:14,167 --> 00:45:18,067 and suddenly, all of a sudden, someone on the Mozilla side is complaining that 900 00:45:18,067 --> 00:45:22,827 the way React builds their extension is hypothetically a security concern. 901 00:45:23,207 --> 00:45:28,157 There were also some numbers thrown around about how many Firefox users of 902 00:45:28,157 --> 00:45:30,237 the dev tools extension actually exist. 903 00:45:30,777 --> 00:45:33,957 And it was only like, maybe like 120,000 or something. 904 00:45:34,147 --> 00:45:37,837 Whereas I think the, the last time I looked at the, the dev tools extension 905 00:45:37,837 --> 00:45:39,877 for Chrome, it's like 4 million. 906 00:45:40,417 --> 00:45:43,717 So the React team was actually saying, you know, maybe we, we 907 00:45:43,717 --> 00:45:46,957 won't even bother building the extension for Firefox anymore. 908 00:45:47,027 --> 00:45:48,317 It's, it's not worth the effort. 909 00:45:48,337 --> 00:45:52,157 You can always add the, you know, the unbundled version yourself. 910 00:45:53,157 --> 00:45:55,717 I think they maybe managed to get the attention of someone 911 00:45:56,227 --> 00:46:00,677 from Mozilla to try to, you know, bypass the stuck review process. 912 00:46:01,377 --> 00:46:02,837 But clearly that's a pain point. 913 00:46:03,057 --> 00:46:03,277 And 914 00:46:03,277 --> 00:46:06,997 Carl: I gotta say, just side load this extension that can read all 915 00:46:06,997 --> 00:46:12,597 of your input on every site is the dangerous thing to do at scale. 916 00:46:12,747 --> 00:46:16,157 Like if you just tell millions of people side load this application, 917 00:46:16,547 --> 00:46:19,957 there's gonna be dozens of malicious actors who spin up their own. 918 00:46:20,912 --> 00:46:24,282 Side load version of the extension that does malicious things. 919 00:46:24,382 --> 00:46:24,882 So Oof. 920 00:46:24,882 --> 00:46:25,442 Don't like that. 921 00:46:25,822 --> 00:46:28,757 So yeah, hopefully they can fix this, you know, correctly. 922 00:46:29,052 --> 00:46:32,632 Mark: And so another item, so we've previously mentioned that, you know, 923 00:46:32,952 --> 00:46:37,792 biomes working on version two and they had included some typed some support 924 00:46:37,972 --> 00:46:44,112 for typed aware rules that normally would've required integration with 925 00:46:44,132 --> 00:46:49,272 the TypeScript DS went package and the TypeScript compiler ENT came out with 1.0. 926 00:46:49,562 --> 00:46:53,432 There, there's a bit of additional information and updates on both of those. 927 00:46:53,852 --> 00:46:55,072 So there was, there was an article. 928 00:46:55,777 --> 00:47:00,862 Talking and comparing the different approaches that Biome and Oxalate 929 00:47:00,882 --> 00:47:03,342 are using to implement typed support. 930 00:47:03,922 --> 00:47:07,622 And then we got a couple links to some of the discussions where 931 00:47:07,622 --> 00:47:08,822 those linters are doing it. 932 00:47:09,742 --> 00:47:15,342 Biome appears to be building in like their own, almost like a miniature version of. 933 00:47:16,287 --> 00:47:22,357 Typed processing, whereas Oxalate has taken the new TypeScript 934 00:47:22,357 --> 00:47:26,717 written in Go compiler and sort of hacked up an interop layer. 935 00:47:27,067 --> 00:47:32,557 Then they're relying on the new TypeScript go compiler to do the type checking work. 936 00:47:33,417 --> 00:47:35,477 And that approach appears to be working it. 937 00:47:35,477 --> 00:47:38,997 They said they've implemented a number of the different type to wear rules, 938 00:47:39,097 --> 00:47:43,557 and it seems highly performant, so you know that in addition to being able 939 00:47:43,557 --> 00:47:48,277 to build our apps faster, we may be able to lint our apps faster as well. 940 00:47:49,002 --> 00:47:49,292 Cool. 941 00:47:49,342 --> 00:47:52,852 We've been going on for a while about how the remix team has been dropping 942 00:47:52,922 --> 00:47:56,412 very, very vague hints about what remix version three is going to be, 943 00:47:56,872 --> 00:47:59,532 to the point that it's really getting very, very annoying for those of us 944 00:47:59,532 --> 00:48:03,412 reading their, their Twitter accounts, and I still haven't seen any actual 945 00:48:03,602 --> 00:48:06,092 code of what the framework itself. 946 00:48:07,047 --> 00:48:12,637 Will be like, however, there they did put up a development branch that 947 00:48:12,637 --> 00:48:17,357 includes some of the support packages that they're going to be using as part 948 00:48:17,357 --> 00:48:19,797 of the implementation of version three. 949 00:48:19,977 --> 00:48:22,637 So like it's not the full framework, but there's a lot of individual 950 00:48:23,017 --> 00:48:29,277 sub packages for various like tar parsing and other sorts of things that 951 00:48:29,347 --> 00:48:32,757 they want to be usable standalone, but they're building them for the 952 00:48:32,757 --> 00:48:34,477 purpose of usage in version three. 953 00:48:35,122 --> 00:48:39,462 So it's not a full look at what, what they're doing, but it's a little 954 00:48:39,462 --> 00:48:40,502 bit of a peek behind the curtain. 955 00:48:40,892 --> 00:48:41,182 Mo: Cool. 956 00:48:41,612 --> 00:48:45,342 Next up, we've got another sort of honorable mention of releases 957 00:48:45,342 --> 00:48:48,702 that happened over the last month, and this is React native wallets. 958 00:48:48,962 --> 00:48:49,942 So there's a lot of sort of. 959 00:48:50,557 --> 00:48:55,657 Wallet style libraries that have come and go in the React native ecosystem, not one 960 00:48:55,657 --> 00:48:57,897 that's really been maintained extensively. 961 00:48:58,437 --> 00:49:03,537 And so the folks at Expensify and Software Mansion have partnered together to 962 00:49:03,537 --> 00:49:04,977 create the React Native Wallet library. 963 00:49:05,677 --> 00:49:07,777 And so the idea is that. 964 00:49:08,537 --> 00:49:12,587 It's firstly a cross-platform way to add payment and credit 965 00:49:12,587 --> 00:49:14,067 cards to Apple and Google Wallet. 966 00:49:14,807 --> 00:49:17,787 Now, there's libraries that like handle passes and tickets. 967 00:49:17,937 --> 00:49:18,827 They're quite limited. 968 00:49:19,017 --> 00:49:21,627 I've used a few of them in the past, but this is more 969 00:49:21,907 --> 00:49:23,427 specifically on payment cards. 970 00:49:24,047 --> 00:49:25,587 And so the idea is that you can maybe. 971 00:49:26,447 --> 00:49:29,772 Hopefully through this process avoid needing to integrate a whole bunch 972 00:49:29,772 --> 00:49:32,732 of different SDKs for different cards and different and different 973 00:49:33,012 --> 00:49:35,692 platforms, and you can kind of just use this library to handle a 974 00:49:35,692 --> 00:49:36,852 lot of that functionality for you. 975 00:49:37,072 --> 00:49:41,012 Sounds quite complex because, you know, payments are usually quite difficult 976 00:49:41,012 --> 00:49:44,572 to get working, so I'm curious to see how well this works in practice, 977 00:49:44,572 --> 00:49:46,012 but I've not had the use case yet. 978 00:49:46,587 --> 00:49:50,752 Typically payments and, and cards and stuff like has so many different people 979 00:49:50,752 --> 00:49:52,032 that you need to communicate with. 980 00:49:52,032 --> 00:49:55,872 The card issuer, apple, and a whole bunch of other people in the process. 981 00:49:56,092 --> 00:49:59,552 So curious to see how extensible and generic this is gonna be, but very cool. 982 00:49:59,862 --> 00:50:00,152 Carl: Yeah. 983 00:50:00,432 --> 00:50:00,632 Interesting. 984 00:50:00,662 --> 00:50:04,672 Also, it's the first time I've seen a wallet library that was not Web3 in a 985 00:50:04,672 --> 00:50:07,432 long time, so additional wallets, right. 986 00:50:07,662 --> 00:50:09,552 This is a very small update, but we've. 987 00:50:10,217 --> 00:50:13,247 I talked a bit in the past about Deno versus Oracle. 988 00:50:13,317 --> 00:50:18,977 Deno has been suing Oracle for use of the JavaScript trademark because did 989 00:50:18,977 --> 00:50:20,177 you even know that Oracle owned it? 990 00:50:20,357 --> 00:50:23,937 Oracle owns the JavaScript word, the word JavaScript. 991 00:50:24,317 --> 00:50:30,417 So basically the only content update here is that in the past, at some 992 00:50:30,417 --> 00:50:36,017 point previously in the litigation, Deno filed a claim of fraud because. 993 00:50:36,962 --> 00:50:42,807 Oracle filed supporting evidence of prior use of the trademarked term JavaScript 994 00:50:43,227 --> 00:50:45,647 by referencing the node JS project. 995 00:50:45,877 --> 00:50:49,407 Generally as something that they did and you know, who did not start 996 00:50:49,587 --> 00:50:52,007 or maintain node js is Oracle. 997 00:50:52,187 --> 00:50:57,887 So like basically they filed a just wildly inaccurate claim supporting that. 998 00:50:57,887 --> 00:50:59,487 They do in fact use JavaScripts. 999 00:51:00,032 --> 00:51:01,772 So that unfortunately was dismissed. 1000 00:51:01,772 --> 00:51:06,092 The fraud claim was dismissed, which seems strange to me because like if you say I 1001 00:51:06,092 --> 00:51:08,052 made this and you didn't, seems wrong. 1002 00:51:08,512 --> 00:51:12,252 But anyway, that's really the only major update here, but 1003 00:51:12,252 --> 00:51:14,092 hopefully we will hear more. 1004 00:51:14,092 --> 00:51:15,372 Hopefully this will go in a good direction. 1005 00:51:15,812 --> 00:51:19,892 I am not super confident of that, but August and September have some 1006 00:51:19,892 --> 00:51:22,692 major court dates, so maybe there will be more updates later this year. 1007 00:51:23,247 --> 00:51:27,572 There's also an update from CloudFlare on AI crawlers. 1008 00:51:27,682 --> 00:51:30,092 They have declared content independence stay. 1009 00:51:30,352 --> 00:51:34,372 No AI crawl without compensation, which seems lovely, Cloudflare's in a 1010 00:51:34,372 --> 00:51:39,932 pretty good position to meaningfully control traffic in that kind of a way. 1011 00:51:40,482 --> 00:51:44,372 Lots of real services are using CloudFlare for that purpose. 1012 00:51:45,172 --> 00:51:46,032 So, yeah, seems good. 1013 00:51:46,102 --> 00:51:50,952 I've heard a couple of anecdotes of people with smaller services getting 1014 00:51:51,592 --> 00:51:56,632 absolutely slammed with traffic from, you know, poorly coded AI supporting 1015 00:51:56,632 --> 00:52:01,752 crawlers, trying to gather information and doing it just greedily or excessively. 1016 00:52:01,932 --> 00:52:02,832 So, seems good. 1017 00:52:02,842 --> 00:52:03,432 Seems nice. 1018 00:52:04,147 --> 00:52:05,607 Mark: All right, and last couple items. 1019 00:52:06,347 --> 00:52:11,327 The folks at Meta have been working way on static Hermes, which is an attempt to take 1020 00:52:11,347 --> 00:52:16,647 the existing Hermes JavaScript engine for React Native and be able to pre-compiled 1021 00:52:16,867 --> 00:52:19,647 entire JavaScript apps to a native binary. 1022 00:52:20,387 --> 00:52:23,127 And they put up a tweet with some. 1023 00:52:23,412 --> 00:52:27,822 Performance numbers comparing static hermes's output versus a 1024 00:52:27,822 --> 00:52:29,382 couple of other JavaScript runtimes. 1025 00:52:29,722 --> 00:52:34,102 The numbers seem higher, which seems like a good thing. 1026 00:52:34,642 --> 00:52:38,102 And they also mentioned that they think they will have a release available, 1027 00:52:38,352 --> 00:52:42,262 quote unquote soon, and that they are using it internally at meta. 1028 00:52:43,012 --> 00:52:45,832 So, you know, that seems like another potentially useful 1029 00:52:45,832 --> 00:52:47,072 tool to have in the ecosystem. 1030 00:52:47,262 --> 00:52:51,392 Finally, the folks behind the various state of surveys have 1031 00:52:51,392 --> 00:52:54,112 put out the state of HTML survey. 1032 00:52:54,412 --> 00:52:55,192 So that's open. 1033 00:52:55,292 --> 00:52:58,272 You can fill it out, test out your knowledge, answer some questions 1034 00:52:58,272 --> 00:53:02,352 about what various new H TM L features you may or may not be familiar 1035 00:53:02,352 --> 00:53:03,672 with and what you think about them. 1036 00:53:04,032 --> 00:53:04,832 Mo: I did not know them. 1037 00:53:04,962 --> 00:53:06,232 State of HTML. 1038 00:53:06,502 --> 00:53:07,072 Very interesting. 1039 00:53:07,072 --> 00:53:08,712 Carl: Yeah, I think they started like two or three years ago. 1040 00:53:08,742 --> 00:53:09,712 It's relatively newer. 1041 00:53:10,232 --> 00:53:11,192 I mean, the state of. 1042 00:53:12,232 --> 00:53:14,712 X has really exploded in the last couple of years. 1043 00:53:14,822 --> 00:53:15,272 It's great. 1044 00:53:15,432 --> 00:53:15,952 I love that. 1045 00:53:16,172 --> 00:53:19,392 But I do worry about like survey fatigue and a lot of these are 1046 00:53:19,392 --> 00:53:23,032 trying to solicit answers from the same population of developers. 1047 00:53:23,132 --> 00:53:24,672 So I don't know, maybe, maybe. 1048 00:53:24,722 --> 00:53:26,192 We'll, we'll see how that plays out. 1049 00:53:26,462 --> 00:53:26,752 Cool. 1050 00:53:26,752 --> 00:53:28,992 Alright, before we close out, let's, uh, talk about some 1051 00:53:28,992 --> 00:53:35,392 coming like four days, there's Big Sky devcon in Bozeman, Montana. 1052 00:53:36,032 --> 00:53:36,862 Seems good. 1053 00:53:37,042 --> 00:53:40,582 Kansas City Developer Conference, which is not KCD. 1054 00:53:40,932 --> 00:53:44,902 It's KCDC, but it's not Ken C dos that's happening August 13th 1055 00:53:44,902 --> 00:53:46,822 and 14th in Kansas City, Kansas. 1056 00:53:47,442 --> 00:53:52,722 We also have React Universe September 2nd through fourth in Wroclaw 1057 00:53:52,892 --> 00:53:55,182 Mo: I've been there enough times where I've been taught the pronunciation because 1058 00:53:55,502 --> 00:53:56,942 butchered it several times, but it's, 1059 00:53:57,842 --> 00:54:03,462 Carl: uh, we've also got Ways Conf coming up September 16th and 17th in Krakow. 1060 00:54:04,102 --> 00:54:06,202 I'm also probably butchering, but also in Poland. 1061 00:54:06,442 --> 00:54:10,082 Cascadia js is September 18th, 19th in Seattle, Washington. 1062 00:54:10,582 --> 00:54:14,482 And we've got Squi Squiggle conf in Boston, September 17th and 1063 00:54:14,642 --> 00:54:17,562 18th, which should be great and I should be there, I believe. 1064 00:54:17,782 --> 00:54:22,242 And of course, react Conf October 7th and 8th in Las Vegas, Nevada. 1065 00:54:22,682 --> 00:54:28,142 I also just heard about Remix Jam, happening October 10th in Toronto, Canada. 1066 00:54:28,772 --> 00:54:29,662 Yeah, that's new. 1067 00:54:29,982 --> 00:54:31,942 I don't know that they've done a conference like that 1068 00:54:31,942 --> 00:54:33,062 before, so that's interesting. 1069 00:54:33,282 --> 00:54:34,822 But yeah, that's all we got for you this month. 1070 00:54:34,922 --> 00:54:36,542 Thanks so much for joining us. 1071 00:54:36,842 --> 00:54:41,342 We will be back probably on the last Wednesday of August, but we've been. 1072 00:54:42,282 --> 00:54:44,927 Jumping around the last few months, but we'll be back in your podcast 1073 00:54:45,077 --> 00:54:46,207 feed just as soon as we can. 1074 00:54:46,627 --> 00:54:47,407 Mark: Always fun. 1075 00:54:47,707 --> 00:54:50,247 Way too much to keep track of, but hopefully this has been useful. 1076 00:54:50,427 --> 00:54:52,967 Lovely to be with you all and see you all next month. 1077 00:54:53,217 --> 00:54:53,567 Carl: Great. 1078 00:54:53,827 --> 00:54:58,327 We gather sources from this week in React Bites, dev Next JS Weekly, the React JS 1079 00:54:58,327 --> 00:55:02,967 subreddit, and here in React to Flux from the E, the Tech Reads and News Channel. 1080 00:55:03,587 --> 00:55:06,647 If you see something that you think we should talk about, definitely Sheridan. 1081 00:55:07,292 --> 00:55:11,192 Channel or send it to me at hello@reactiflux.com. 1082 00:55:11,362 --> 00:55:14,142 If this is a show that you get value from and want to support, one of the best ways 1083 00:55:14,142 --> 00:55:18,582 you can do so is by submitting a review on whatever platform you listen to it on, or 1084 00:55:18,582 --> 00:55:19,862 tell your friends and coworkers about it. 1085 00:55:19,862 --> 00:55:20,742 Thanks so much for listening. 1086 00:55:20,772 --> 00:55:21,302 Talk to you later.