WEBVTT 00:00:03.210 --> 00:00:07.410 Matt Abrahams: Advancements in AI are not only revolutionizing work, they're shaping 00:00:07.410 --> 00:00:09.990 careers and opening up new possibilities. 00:00:10.680 --> 00:00:14.040 My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at 00:00:14.040 --> 00:00:15.960 Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:16.230 --> 00:00:19.500 Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:20.350 --> 00:00:24.160 Today I am excited to once again be joined by Andrew Seaman, senior 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.190 Managing Editor for Jobs and Career Development at LinkedIn. 00:00:27.490 --> 00:00:29.910 Andrew joined me in episode 151. 00:00:30.490 --> 00:00:34.240 Andrew oversees a team of journalists and editors at LinkedIn who are focused on 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:36.760 helping people navigate work and life. 00:00:37.180 --> 00:00:41.260 Through his Get Hired podcast, which he has kindly had me on a few times, 00:00:41.290 --> 00:00:45.460 he and his team helped thousands of people get jobs and advance careers. 00:00:45.824 --> 00:00:46.875 Welcome back, Andrew. 00:00:46.875 --> 00:00:49.665 It is really exciting to have yet another conversation. 00:00:49.665 --> 00:00:52.334 Thank you for hosting us in this beautiful studio of yours. 00:00:52.425 --> 00:00:52.754 Andrew Seaman: Of course. 00:00:52.754 --> 00:00:53.474 Thanks for having me. 00:00:53.655 --> 00:00:55.394 Matt Abrahams: I'm really excited to have a conversation that's 00:00:55.394 --> 00:00:59.235 part of our Catalyze Your Career miniseries, sponsored by LinkedIn. 00:00:59.235 --> 00:00:59.955 Should we get started? 00:01:00.015 --> 00:01:00.584 Andrew Seaman: I'd love to. 00:01:00.855 --> 00:01:04.095 Matt Abrahams: Clearly the world is changing in terms of how people 00:01:04.185 --> 00:01:06.315 find jobs and the tools they use. 00:01:06.435 --> 00:01:10.215 I'm curious, what are you seeing as changing in the world of job search and 00:01:10.215 --> 00:01:11.595 what should people be thinking about? 00:01:11.890 --> 00:01:14.380 Andrew Seaman: Right now, it's definitely like a transition period. 00:01:14.380 --> 00:01:18.370 Obviously we have a lot of things happening in the macro economy, so 00:01:18.700 --> 00:01:26.830 you have hiring that is stable-ish, but we see dips and accelerations 00:01:26.830 --> 00:01:30.340 here or there, but it's not an easy time to be a job seeker right now. 00:01:30.370 --> 00:01:35.260 And then you also have the fact that a lot of places aren't hiring. 00:01:35.445 --> 00:01:39.525 They weren't doing that already, but then at the same time, you have companies that 00:01:39.525 --> 00:01:41.835 are being a little bit more cautious. 00:01:41.865 --> 00:01:46.395 So you have those factors at play, but then you also have this looming idea of 00:01:46.395 --> 00:01:49.995 AI, and we don't know what we don't know. 00:01:49.995 --> 00:01:55.215 So it's hard to say exactly when and how people will be affected by it. 00:01:55.245 --> 00:01:59.955 We know that it's already having an impact on some people, there's so many different 00:01:59.955 --> 00:02:03.164 things at play and it's uncertain. 00:02:03.164 --> 00:02:07.755 And then you also have a lot of people who are gonna be graduating soon, so it's 00:02:07.755 --> 00:02:09.285 gonna be a really competitive market. 00:02:09.285 --> 00:02:12.084 I think overall on LinkedIn, we've seen a forty-five percent 00:02:12.105 --> 00:02:14.204 increase in applications overall. 00:02:14.265 --> 00:02:18.195 You have a lot of competition going on for jobs that aren't as 00:02:18.195 --> 00:02:19.454 plentiful as people would hope. 00:02:20.040 --> 00:02:22.500 Matt Abrahams: And so really thinking about your strategy and 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:24.120 your approach can be really helpful. 00:02:24.510 --> 00:02:28.740 Part of my teaching job is to prepare my MBA students for not just their impending 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:30.630 careers, but for their job searches. 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:35.640 And when I speak with them, I break down job searching into four I's, identifying 00:02:35.640 --> 00:02:40.170 a potential job, investigating the company and the role, initiating contact and 00:02:40.170 --> 00:02:42.090 applying, and then finally interviewing. 00:02:42.269 --> 00:02:44.970 I'd love for you to use my four I structure to help me 00:02:45.030 --> 00:02:46.350 answer some of these questions. 00:02:46.350 --> 00:02:52.255 So, what are the things that job seekers can do and what tools can 00:02:52.255 --> 00:02:53.815 they leverage to help with each stage? 00:02:53.815 --> 00:02:56.515 So when it comes to identification, what are some things you would 00:02:56.515 --> 00:03:00.085 recommend that job seekers do and what tools are available to help them? 00:03:00.505 --> 00:03:03.025 Andrew Seaman: The first one is definitely being inquisitive. 00:03:03.085 --> 00:03:06.565 I think knowing what's out there, knowing what resonates 00:03:06.565 --> 00:03:08.365 with you, utilize your network. 00:03:08.545 --> 00:03:12.145 Obviously you could do that on LinkedIn, but there are so many different ways you 00:03:12.145 --> 00:03:13.735 could reach out to friends and family. 00:03:13.950 --> 00:03:16.890 You could reach out to former coworkers, and I think the trick is 00:03:16.890 --> 00:03:18.959 to be genuine in those outreaches. 00:03:18.989 --> 00:03:23.670 Because so many people, they do an outreach, but it's more or less, hey, I 00:03:23.670 --> 00:03:25.079 saw a job at your company, gimme a job. 00:03:25.380 --> 00:03:30.420 And nothing makes a networking conversation or a conversation 00:03:30.595 --> 00:03:34.225 sort of spoil faster or even a whole relationship because that 00:03:34.225 --> 00:03:35.875 person just ends up feeling used. 00:03:36.144 --> 00:03:41.575 So what I often tell people is just let your genuine curiosity guide you and let 00:03:41.575 --> 00:03:45.325 people know like, hey, I'm looking for work, and see what they offer you and 00:03:45.325 --> 00:03:49.045 say, oh, you should talk to so and so because they have this really cool job. 00:03:49.160 --> 00:03:53.180 Whatever you do, when you ask and you bring someone in for a conversation, 00:03:53.540 --> 00:03:55.490 be more interested in them. 00:03:55.760 --> 00:03:58.430 And obviously you could end with, I'm looking for new opportunities, so if you 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:00.740 have any suggestions, please let me know. 00:04:00.740 --> 00:04:02.570 Like don't make too big of an ask. 00:04:02.720 --> 00:04:06.230 Asking for information is totally valid and it's a light lift 00:04:06.260 --> 00:04:09.859 for that other person, but I think that's the biggest part. 00:04:10.130 --> 00:04:13.185 And also what I tell people is search on LinkedIn. 00:04:13.365 --> 00:04:17.685 Our search is changing right now, so we're gonna be rolling out AI job search. 00:04:17.925 --> 00:04:21.195 So traditionally when you job search, you would say, I want to 00:04:21.195 --> 00:04:24.855 be an accountant and I wanna be an accountant in Savannah, Georgia. 00:04:25.185 --> 00:04:28.935 And then there'd be other filters that said, I wanna work at a big company or 00:04:29.130 --> 00:04:31.110 these are the requirements that I have. 00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:35.280 And you know, you had to be pretty good at searching and you could set 00:04:35.280 --> 00:04:36.690 up an alert and all that other stuff. 00:04:36.690 --> 00:04:41.100 But the way that our engineers are now making the search work is 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:43.409 through basically natural language. 00:04:43.409 --> 00:04:47.790 So it's an AI job search, and what you could say is, you could basically say, 00:04:47.820 --> 00:04:52.470 okay, I want to work in accounting in Savannah, Georgia, and I'd 00:04:52.470 --> 00:04:54.090 like a minimum salary of whatever. 00:04:54.270 --> 00:04:58.140 And this tool basically goes into LinkedIn's files and says, 00:04:58.290 --> 00:04:59.970 okay, we have these positions. 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:00.870 Here you go. 00:05:01.050 --> 00:05:02.220 So it's much more natural. 00:05:02.650 --> 00:05:05.935 Matt Abrahams: So it sounds to me like the key to identifying potential 00:05:05.935 --> 00:05:10.225 jobs is through conversation rather than direct request. 00:05:10.225 --> 00:05:13.555 And that those same skills you might use when I'm talking to a friend, 00:05:13.555 --> 00:05:17.335 or a friend of a friend, I can use with AI, and that will also help me 00:05:17.335 --> 00:05:18.895 find the things that I'm looking for. 00:05:18.895 --> 00:05:22.975 So taking the time to be thoughtful about identifying the jobs and not 00:05:22.975 --> 00:05:26.755 being so direct and blunt, perhaps at least with people, could be helpful. 00:05:26.965 --> 00:05:30.025 So the second step I talk to my students about is investigating, doing the 00:05:30.025 --> 00:05:33.475 research, because if you are gonna get an interview, it's important to know. 00:05:33.565 --> 00:05:37.825 What advice do you have about how people can better investigate the companies and 00:05:37.825 --> 00:05:39.265 the roles that they're interested in? 00:05:39.535 --> 00:05:41.695 Andrew Seaman: I think again, it comes back to conversations. 00:05:41.785 --> 00:05:44.875 Nothing's going to give you better information than someone 00:05:44.875 --> 00:05:46.315 who's living that experience. 00:05:46.345 --> 00:05:51.155 So you wanna look for people who are at that company who are maybe in a 00:05:51.155 --> 00:05:55.445 similar role, and even if there's not a job open or they're not advertising 00:05:55.445 --> 00:05:59.045 for a role, you want to reach out and just set up those conversations 00:05:59.045 --> 00:06:02.284 and say, hey, would you be open for a ten, fifteen minute conversation? 00:06:02.405 --> 00:06:07.655 And these conversations could be super beneficial because even if you don't 00:06:07.655 --> 00:06:10.955 know that person, if you get in front of them or you have a good conversation 00:06:10.955 --> 00:06:14.115 with them, they could give you a lot of information about what their day-to-day 00:06:14.115 --> 00:06:16.094 is like, what the company's like. 00:06:16.215 --> 00:06:20.085 Are there any green flags where, you know, something really resonates with you? 00:06:20.265 --> 00:06:21.344 And you could use AI too. 00:06:21.344 --> 00:06:24.885 Like you can keep a running list of like, oh, here's a job 00:06:24.885 --> 00:06:26.145 description that I really like. 00:06:26.205 --> 00:06:31.155 Add that to a file and then you could have AI and analyze it and come up with, 00:06:31.155 --> 00:06:34.905 here are the main things that people are looking for in this field or profession. 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:39.669 So it's really doing digging and coming up with a good idea of what 00:06:39.669 --> 00:06:43.120 the companies are, what they're looking for, and then finding out 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:44.620 what it's actually like on the ground. 00:06:44.859 --> 00:06:47.950 Matt Abrahams: I think this investigation is really important, and I really 00:06:47.950 --> 00:06:52.000 like that idea of starting to flag job descriptions that you see and 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:55.179 start looking for what's common across them that might be attracting you. 00:06:55.539 --> 00:06:58.630 In a previous conversation you and I had, we talked about coming up with 00:06:58.630 --> 00:07:03.895 questions and I think as you investigate a role or a company, really thinking 00:07:03.895 --> 00:07:07.794 through your questions to get at what you're really interested in is important. 00:07:07.794 --> 00:07:10.495 A lot of people, I think, stay too high level with their questions, 00:07:10.495 --> 00:07:13.104 but being really specific and give you important insight. 00:07:13.375 --> 00:07:16.015 So let's move to the third step in the four I's model, which 00:07:16.015 --> 00:07:17.784 is really initiating contact. 00:07:18.025 --> 00:07:21.414 What advice do you have about how do you actually set up the first 00:07:21.414 --> 00:07:23.215 meeting or ask for that meeting. 00:07:23.275 --> 00:07:24.805 How does contact initiation work? 00:07:25.045 --> 00:07:26.395 Andrew Seaman: It works in a few different ways. 00:07:26.485 --> 00:07:29.755 What I would say is look at the job description, see what it says. 00:07:29.755 --> 00:07:32.875 On LinkedIn there are a few tools that they've rolled out 00:07:32.875 --> 00:07:35.185 recently that can be beneficial. 00:07:35.185 --> 00:07:38.425 So one thing that we've been hearing a lot from people is basically that 00:07:38.485 --> 00:07:39.805 they don't know if a job is real. 00:07:39.865 --> 00:07:43.105 And people get those text messages, I don't know if you do, but hey, 00:07:43.105 --> 00:07:46.165 I'm a recruiter for so and so and there are all these scams. 00:07:46.165 --> 00:07:51.169 But, so on LinkedIn they wanted to basically have people more reassurance 00:07:51.169 --> 00:07:52.549 that like, this is a real job. 00:07:52.549 --> 00:07:54.229 This is a company that's actually looking. 00:07:54.320 --> 00:07:57.560 So now when you go into the job descriptions or like job search 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:02.419 results, there'll be little notes that say, oh, this is a verified job. 00:08:02.479 --> 00:08:04.549 They're actively looking at resumes. 00:08:04.549 --> 00:08:06.500 This is how long it takes to get back to you. 00:08:06.799 --> 00:08:10.130 So it might also even say the person who's hiring for the 00:08:10.130 --> 00:08:11.239 role, if they're a recruiter. 00:08:11.299 --> 00:08:14.690 So make sure that you're actually looking at the whole job posting 00:08:14.690 --> 00:08:18.350 to get a sense of, can you use any additional information from there? 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:23.420 My biggest piece of advice is first apply because a recruiter 00:08:23.420 --> 00:08:27.260 can generally not do anything until your information is in the system. 00:08:27.650 --> 00:08:33.110 So a lot of times people will see a job post on LinkedIn or somewhere else and 00:08:33.110 --> 00:08:34.820 they'll say, ooh, who do I know there? 00:08:34.909 --> 00:08:38.690 And it's great to work those channels, but also you wanna make sure your 00:08:38.690 --> 00:08:40.789 application gets in as soon as possible. 00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:44.095 And then what you can do is then use your contacts and say, 00:08:44.125 --> 00:08:46.135 hey, I saw this job, I applied. 00:08:46.345 --> 00:08:47.725 Can you gimme any insight? 00:08:47.995 --> 00:08:51.595 And even if they give you a referral afterward, like usually, you know, 00:08:51.595 --> 00:08:55.255 that person could message the recruiter and say, hey, I know this person. 00:08:55.435 --> 00:08:56.935 Can you add me as a reference? 00:08:57.175 --> 00:09:01.704 But what I would also say is if they list the recruiter, if they list any 00:09:01.704 --> 00:09:06.685 other details, you can find them also on LinkedIn and say, send them a message and 00:09:06.685 --> 00:09:08.545 say, hey, I just applied for this role. 00:09:08.755 --> 00:09:10.555 I am really interested in it. 00:09:10.555 --> 00:09:12.354 Almost like, you know, your cover letter. 00:09:12.584 --> 00:09:16.614 So make sure that you're sending those messages, even if they don't reply to you, 00:09:16.765 --> 00:09:18.239 it's still worth your time to do that. 00:09:18.824 --> 00:09:21.405 Matt Abrahams: What I'm hearing there that I think is so important, many things you 00:09:21.405 --> 00:09:24.645 said are really important, but putting yourself in the position of the recruiter 00:09:24.645 --> 00:09:26.475 or gatekeeper is really important. 00:09:26.475 --> 00:09:29.355 'Cause we think as soon as I see a job I want, I'm gonna try to find connections 00:09:29.355 --> 00:09:30.824 and figure out how I can get that job. 00:09:30.824 --> 00:09:34.814 But in fact, there are well-known procedures that those companies 00:09:34.814 --> 00:09:36.194 and those jobs have to follow. 00:09:36.314 --> 00:09:39.729 And if you're not playing that game, if you will, you're in trouble. 00:09:39.750 --> 00:09:42.689 So I like that idea of work your network, but make sure you get it 00:09:42.689 --> 00:09:46.890 through and make sure that you're using language that is enticing. 00:09:46.890 --> 00:09:48.930 'Cause essentially it's like a movie preview. 00:09:48.930 --> 00:09:52.560 You're trying to get people interested and excited to take a little more time. 00:09:52.589 --> 00:09:55.800 And thinking of it that way, I think, changes everything because many 00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:59.130 people just wanna list an itemize instead of saying, hey, here's 00:09:59.130 --> 00:10:00.460 something I spent some thought on. 00:10:00.640 --> 00:10:00.850 Andrew Seaman: Yeah. 00:10:00.850 --> 00:10:03.990 And I think we've talked about this before and it's something that I've 00:10:03.990 --> 00:10:06.720 been telling a lot of people, think outside the box of like, don't just 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:09.420 think that just because you've been an accountant in your entire life 00:10:09.420 --> 00:10:10.860 that you have to be an accountant now. 00:10:11.010 --> 00:10:14.550 And what I sort of suggest to people is if you're making a career change, 00:10:14.550 --> 00:10:18.425 but also even if you're not, have your narrative that supports why 00:10:18.425 --> 00:10:21.995 you're the best candidate for these roles, and make sure you're leading 00:10:21.995 --> 00:10:23.795 with that with your messages. 00:10:23.795 --> 00:10:27.155 Because if you just say, hey, I'm interested in this role, you might get a 00:10:27.155 --> 00:10:28.985 look, but they may not look too deeply. 00:10:28.985 --> 00:10:31.685 They might say, okay, you probably sent that to fifteen other recruiters. 00:10:31.834 --> 00:10:34.895 But if you have the narrative that says, listen, yes, I'm making a career 00:10:34.895 --> 00:10:39.454 change, but here's why it's beneficial to me, or you set it up as saying, 00:10:39.515 --> 00:10:43.685 I was made for this role, whatever your story is, I think it makes them 00:10:43.745 --> 00:10:47.280 think twice and say, oh, you're worth fifteen seconds instead of five. 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:49.470 Matt Abrahams: I think it's not just for people changing careers, but somebody 00:10:49.470 --> 00:10:53.760 who's starting in a career to really think through what is the story you tell versus 00:10:53.760 --> 00:10:57.540 what are all the qualifications in check boxes I do, and taking the time to do that 00:10:57.540 --> 00:10:59.280 as you initiate contact are important. 00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:02.610 We've talked certainly a lot about interviewing in the previous episodes, 00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:06.780 so I'd like you to focus your response on how have the tools changed? 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:10.350 Are we approaching interviewing differently now versus 00:11:10.350 --> 00:11:11.580 the way we might have? 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.125 Andrew Seaman: I do think we've moved into a space where it is more of a conversation 00:11:16.125 --> 00:11:18.465 of, is this the right fit for both of us? 00:11:18.585 --> 00:11:22.945 I think that's a good thing because employment is a business agreement 00:11:23.225 --> 00:11:25.485 and you want both parties to be happy. 00:11:25.665 --> 00:11:29.175 The other thing is I think we have many more tools to analyze what they're 00:11:29.175 --> 00:11:33.615 actually looking for, so obviously job descriptions are super powerful. 00:11:33.705 --> 00:11:35.330 Not all job descriptions are great. 00:11:35.819 --> 00:11:40.260 I'll get asked quite a bit like who writes these, and I'll usually say, usually what 00:11:40.260 --> 00:11:43.830 happens is I said, some hiring manager who's never written a job description 00:11:43.830 --> 00:11:46.740 before in their life will write down the requirements that they want. 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.410 They'll pass it along, it'll get cut and pasted into something 00:11:49.410 --> 00:11:50.640 else that already existed. 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.365 And I said, you end up with this Frankenstein thing that isn't perfect, 00:11:54.635 --> 00:11:59.195 but somewhere in there are the nuggets of what that hiring manager wants. 00:11:59.285 --> 00:12:03.575 So just like we sort of talked about earlier, analyzing a bunch of different 00:12:03.575 --> 00:12:07.355 job descriptions, you do want to sometimes really take a look and say, 00:12:07.475 --> 00:12:09.755 okay, what in here is very specific? 00:12:09.815 --> 00:12:14.435 And I think those are the pieces that will actually come from the hiring manager. 00:12:14.770 --> 00:12:17.560 At LinkedIn, we have now a tool called Job Match. 00:12:17.620 --> 00:12:20.920 And essentially when you're looking at a job description, you 00:12:20.920 --> 00:12:22.930 could say, what does AI think? 00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:24.189 Am I a fit for this role? 00:12:24.370 --> 00:12:29.500 And it'll show you, these are your weak points, these are your strengths, or this 00:12:29.500 --> 00:12:31.820 is where you align on your application. 00:12:31.930 --> 00:12:35.094 So it can actually show you like the things you need to address or prepare 00:12:35.094 --> 00:12:38.994 for in an interview, to say, I'm not really good with conflict management 00:12:38.994 --> 00:12:43.104 right now, but I've been taking courses to figure out how to actually 00:12:43.104 --> 00:12:47.094 do that so that way when I do take charge of a team, I'll be prepared. 00:12:47.334 --> 00:12:49.555 Matt Abrahams: I hear two really important things there that the actual 00:12:49.555 --> 00:12:51.995 interview itself is a conversation. 00:12:51.995 --> 00:12:55.415 And it's a conversation that these days, I think two things are true, it's a 00:12:55.415 --> 00:12:57.605 little more equal in terms of status. 00:12:57.665 --> 00:13:01.385 So I'm not letting the employer really run the show. 00:13:01.415 --> 00:13:04.835 I have to take an active part, and I think they're a little less formal. 00:13:04.835 --> 00:13:07.325 I think ever since the pandemic, these things have become 00:13:07.325 --> 00:13:08.765 just a little more informal. 00:13:08.915 --> 00:13:11.255 Again, leaning into this idea of conversation. 00:13:11.255 --> 00:13:15.215 So as you prepare, you need to think, how do I have a conversation versus 00:13:15.215 --> 00:13:16.964 how do I just answer the questions. 00:13:17.084 --> 00:13:23.115 And I got excited when you talked about having a tool, an AI, help you see 00:13:23.115 --> 00:13:24.915 where you match and where you don't. 00:13:25.005 --> 00:13:29.025 And I think we can use a tool, I think we can use other people, but to really get 00:13:29.025 --> 00:13:34.005 some external validation or encouragement in areas where you might be deficient 00:13:34.005 --> 00:13:37.635 for that role, that can be really helpful because that sets you up for success. 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.230 One of the things we've talked about in a previous conversation is looking 00:13:41.230 --> 00:13:44.380 at people's career paths, they're doing a job that you're interested in 00:13:44.380 --> 00:13:45.640 doing and seeing how they got there. 00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:49.120 That's another way of trying to figure out, where could I focus 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:50.800 my efforts to better qualify? 00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:52.600 So I really appreciate those two pieces. 00:13:52.660 --> 00:13:54.700 Andrew Seaman: This is actually my favorite way to use this tool. 00:13:54.875 --> 00:13:58.835 When people are looking at a job description and they click that button, 00:13:58.835 --> 00:14:03.845 and if it says, you're not really strong with the majority of these requirements, 00:14:04.235 --> 00:14:06.455 and you look at it and say, but I am. 00:14:06.545 --> 00:14:10.055 And actually what it does is it uses all the information from your profile. 00:14:10.265 --> 00:14:13.925 So if you're not actually presenting yourself appropriately on your 00:14:13.925 --> 00:14:17.855 profile for the jobs you want, it can show where your weak points are. 00:14:18.065 --> 00:14:21.635 So maybe you don't think of something as a strength. 00:14:21.880 --> 00:14:25.180 Or just there's something that's not occurring to you to actually 00:14:25.180 --> 00:14:29.020 put on your profile or advertise about your professional strengths. 00:14:29.260 --> 00:14:32.260 It can actually show you those holes and like how you're presenting yourself. 00:14:32.680 --> 00:14:36.189 Matt Abrahams: So Job Match, doesn't only help you identify how good of 00:14:36.189 --> 00:14:39.969 a match you are for the job, but it helps you identify where perhaps your 00:14:39.969 --> 00:14:42.890 profile or the way you're presenting yourself could be strengthened. 00:14:43.089 --> 00:14:46.329 So you might say, I feel this is true about me, but the system is saying 00:14:46.329 --> 00:14:49.420 we don't see it, so then you have to, again, adjust your narrative. 00:14:49.510 --> 00:14:49.959 Thank you. 00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:54.850 So going through the four I's of identification, investigation, initiating 00:14:54.850 --> 00:15:00.220 contact and interviewing, is really about being conversational, creating a narrative 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:02.199 and leveraging tools like AI to help. 00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:05.920 If we take a step back, the job search process can certainly be overwhelming. 00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:10.150 Do you have advice and guidance about how to simplify or make it at least less 00:15:10.150 --> 00:15:12.340 stressful and easier for job seekers? 00:15:12.670 --> 00:15:13.150 Andrew Seaman: Yes. 00:15:13.150 --> 00:15:17.770 I think the first thing is that you really need to have a strategic job search. 00:15:17.770 --> 00:15:22.785 So a lot of people, they think the job search is a numbers game, and especially 00:15:22.815 --> 00:15:27.525 in this environment where you're facing hiring rates that are either 00:15:27.555 --> 00:15:31.395 going down or staying the same while we're seeing increased competition. 00:15:31.845 --> 00:15:35.145 And it leads to a vicious cycle because you end up just applying 00:15:35.205 --> 00:15:39.435 everywhere with very generic resumes that are not targeted. 00:15:39.435 --> 00:15:42.375 And then the result of that is that you get more discouraged. 00:15:42.375 --> 00:15:45.075 So you send out more generic resumes and things like that, and 00:15:45.075 --> 00:15:48.015 it just keeps going and you feel worse and worse about yourself. 00:15:48.435 --> 00:15:52.890 So having a targeted job search where you say, okay, this is what I want. 00:15:52.890 --> 00:15:56.699 And the way I recommend people do that is once they have those conversations, 00:15:56.699 --> 00:16:01.229 then they sort of settle on, okay, I do wanna work in sales in the healthcare 00:16:01.229 --> 00:16:05.670 industry, find the positions that you're most interested in, and you could use 00:16:05.670 --> 00:16:10.319 that AI job search to say like, hey, I wanna find sales jobs in healthcare in 00:16:10.319 --> 00:16:11.880 Tallahassee, or something like that. 00:16:12.375 --> 00:16:15.345 And it'll give you a bunch of job descriptions and you could take those 00:16:15.405 --> 00:16:21.495 and put them in any free AI tool and say, how can I construct my resume? 00:16:21.735 --> 00:16:25.485 What is the most important traits of someone working in this area? 00:16:25.845 --> 00:16:29.745 And really focus your job search on selling yourself as that coming 00:16:29.745 --> 00:16:32.355 up with that narrative of, okay, here's where I'm coming from, 00:16:32.415 --> 00:16:33.945 here's how I'm pitching myself. 00:16:33.975 --> 00:16:35.415 And again, you could use AI for that. 00:16:35.645 --> 00:16:39.395 Don't ever take what it just spits out and say, hey, here's my stuff. 00:16:39.725 --> 00:16:45.695 But use it as almost like that job search coach and use your time to really go 00:16:45.695 --> 00:16:47.645 after the jobs that you really want. 00:16:47.735 --> 00:16:51.425 You know, that you hope that they'll just give you a moment. 00:16:51.425 --> 00:16:55.925 Because right now so many people are applying to all jobs. 00:16:55.985 --> 00:16:59.195 And in fact, that's one of the complaints I think we hear most from employers, is 00:16:59.255 --> 00:17:01.235 we're just getting so many applications. 00:17:01.295 --> 00:17:04.595 And that was actually one of the reasons we created Jobs Match because we wanted 00:17:04.595 --> 00:17:08.735 people to be able to know whether or not they are actually a good match for that. 00:17:08.795 --> 00:17:13.595 So what I hear from employers is the really good resumes stand out. 00:17:13.625 --> 00:17:17.315 Because if you're going through so many that are so lackluster, when you 00:17:17.315 --> 00:17:21.245 find one that is actually like, oh wow, this person checks most of my boxes 00:17:21.515 --> 00:17:23.255 and actually wants to do this work. 00:17:23.255 --> 00:17:25.935 It's just like the shining beacon for them. 00:17:26.235 --> 00:17:31.780 So put your effort into actually doing a job search that is going 00:17:31.780 --> 00:17:33.070 to lead to where you want to go. 00:17:33.070 --> 00:17:36.399 And then also understand that a successful job search is more than 00:17:36.399 --> 00:17:38.290 just applying, it's talking to people. 00:17:38.290 --> 00:17:40.120 It's setting up those conversations. 00:17:40.409 --> 00:17:44.680 And I always suggest thinking of it as odds. 00:17:44.770 --> 00:17:48.639 What can you be doing that is going to increase your odds of success? 00:17:48.730 --> 00:17:53.320 You're never gonna be guaranteed anything or be guaranteed on a timeline. 00:17:53.620 --> 00:17:56.764 But what you could do is say, okay, if I do X, it's going to 00:17:56.764 --> 00:17:59.735 gimme a little bit more of an edge, and that will be networking. 00:17:59.735 --> 00:18:04.264 That'll be taking courses online or even signing up for other courses 00:18:04.264 --> 00:18:08.915 in local colleges, volunteering to gain additional experience, or also 00:18:08.915 --> 00:18:10.985 just taking time to go for a walk. 00:18:11.044 --> 00:18:14.165 So it's really about just understanding that the job search 00:18:14.165 --> 00:18:16.745 process is a holistic thing. 00:18:17.074 --> 00:18:21.094 And a lot of people say it's a full-time job, and I'll always tell them yes, but a 00:18:21.094 --> 00:18:25.890 full-time job usually comes with weekends, so don't be afraid to build those into it. 00:18:26.070 --> 00:18:29.730 Because all of those things will make your life more tolerable 00:18:29.790 --> 00:18:31.410 during a very difficult time. 00:18:31.530 --> 00:18:34.140 And then I think the most important part is have a support network. 00:18:34.590 --> 00:18:36.480 Matt Abrahams: All of that is really good advice. 00:18:36.690 --> 00:18:41.435 The defining of success of a job search is really important. 00:18:41.525 --> 00:18:44.615 It may or may not be getting that one job. 00:18:44.615 --> 00:18:47.735 It might be planting the seeds that open up other opportunities. 00:18:47.975 --> 00:18:50.735 It might be connecting with a broader community that can lead to 00:18:50.735 --> 00:18:52.385 a job or at least lead to support. 00:18:52.655 --> 00:18:55.505 I think we, we put a tremendous amount of pressure on ourselves 00:18:55.505 --> 00:19:01.480 when the solo goal of a job search is to find that job instead of to 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:06.760 make yourself a better candidate and to be open to the possibility 00:19:06.760 --> 00:19:08.080 of other things that come your way. 00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:11.620 And then that notion of being strategic where instead of doing the 00:19:11.620 --> 00:19:15.100 shotgun approach and just sending out everything, really focus, can 00:19:15.100 --> 00:19:19.380 actually give you more of a sense of control and make it more manageable. 00:19:19.380 --> 00:19:22.530 So I think that advice is really good because getting 00:19:22.530 --> 00:19:23.820 a job is a wonderful thing. 00:19:23.820 --> 00:19:29.310 But if you get to that job fatigued and frustrated and stressed, then the best 00:19:29.310 --> 00:19:31.530 job is not gonna at least start that well. 00:19:31.800 --> 00:19:34.860 Before we end, I'm asking everybody who's participating in this Catalyze Your 00:19:34.860 --> 00:19:37.020 Career miniseries the same two questions. 00:19:37.020 --> 00:19:37.440 Are you ready? 00:19:37.560 --> 00:19:37.890 Andrew Seaman: Yes. 00:19:38.070 --> 00:19:41.010 Matt Abrahams: What is the best career advice you've ever received and why? 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:46.409 Andrew Seaman: When I was younger, I remember someone who was a vice 00:19:46.409 --> 00:19:52.290 president of my college and I felt really insecure about, even as a college 00:19:52.290 --> 00:19:54.149 journalist, going and interviewing people. 00:19:54.270 --> 00:20:01.200 And he said, the benefit you have is that when you're new to a role, or young, 00:20:01.560 --> 00:20:03.330 people will always underestimate you. 00:20:04.345 --> 00:20:05.735 And you could always over deliver. 00:20:06.245 --> 00:20:10.895 So even though I'm not young or new, I always tell myself that 00:20:10.895 --> 00:20:12.185 when I'm trying new things. 00:20:12.575 --> 00:20:15.155 Because when you're new to something that people don't expect you to be good at it. 00:20:15.305 --> 00:20:20.135 And I always remind myself, I'm always going to at least over 00:20:20.135 --> 00:20:23.825 deliver beyond their expectation, their base level expectation. 00:20:24.245 --> 00:20:26.945 So I think that's the best career advice I ever received. 00:20:27.389 --> 00:20:32.700 Matt Abrahams: Leverage the newness and come at it with the focus on trying to 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:36.240 be the best you can be, knowing that the expectations might be a little lower. 00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:37.080 Very good. 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.290 Second and final question, what is the one thing you wish you 00:20:40.290 --> 00:20:42.555 would've done differently in the way you managed your career? 00:20:43.635 --> 00:20:46.170 Andrew Seaman: I think I would have been more proactive when I 00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:51.150 was younger, whether it was asking for raises or career development. 00:20:51.450 --> 00:20:58.830 My first raise as a full-time professional came to me because they felt bad for 00:20:58.830 --> 00:21:00.720 me because I had never asked for it. 00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:05.400 I literally went into like my yearly review, and I had recently 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:07.350 changed managers at that point. 00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:10.170 She goes, we're giving you a raise. 00:21:10.170 --> 00:21:11.430 And I was like, oh boy. 00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:14.100 And she goes, you've never asked for one. 00:21:14.129 --> 00:21:18.510 And I said, I didn't think I had to, and I don't know why. 00:21:18.510 --> 00:21:21.570 It was just this weird thing where I was like, I have to ask? 00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:28.110 So I think I would be much more proactive in being an advocate for myself. 00:21:28.950 --> 00:21:31.350 Matt Abrahams: Being proactive and being an advocate I think captures 00:21:31.350 --> 00:21:32.910 a lot of what we talked about today. 00:21:32.910 --> 00:21:34.080 Andrew, thank you very much. 00:21:34.544 --> 00:21:39.195 The introduction to all these really cool tools, Job Match, AI assistance, 00:21:39.524 --> 00:21:44.385 the proactive approach, thinking about your job search as the narrative. 00:21:44.625 --> 00:21:48.495 Really important advice, and I hope those listening can take value if 00:21:48.495 --> 00:21:51.554 they're looking for a job currently or if they're just thinking about 00:21:51.554 --> 00:21:52.875 what's next for them in their career. 00:21:52.905 --> 00:21:53.534 Thanks so much. 00:21:53.565 --> 00:21:54.075 Andrew Seaman: Thank you. 00:21:56.885 --> 00:22:00.275 Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for another episode of our Catalyze Your 00:22:00.275 --> 00:22:02.525 Career miniseries, sponsored by LinkedIn. 00:22:03.065 --> 00:22:07.415 Please listen to the prior two episodes, episode 184 with Catherine Fisher 00:22:07.475 --> 00:22:09.575 and episode 187 with Dorie Clark. 00:22:09.605 --> 00:22:13.575 To learn more from Andrew Seaman, listen to episode 151. 00:22:14.340 --> 00:22:18.750 This episode was produced by Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. 00:22:18.900 --> 00:22:23.220 With special thanks to the LinkedIn crew, especially Emily Reeves. 00:22:23.340 --> 00:22:25.080 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:27.570 With thanks to Podium Podcast company. 00:22:28.050 --> 00:22:31.230 Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.510 Be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:38.610 Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out FasterSmarter.io for 00:22:38.610 --> 00:22:43.125 deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter.