1 00:00:05,550 --> 00:00:06,540 Welcome back to Count Me In, 2 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:10,410 IMA's podcast about all things affecting the accounting and finance world. 3 00:00:10,950 --> 00:00:14,400 I'm Adam Larson and I first like to thank you for coming back to hear episode 4 00:00:14,401 --> 00:00:17,940 146 of our series today's conversation features Patti Humble, 5 00:00:17,941 --> 00:00:20,310 the chief accounting officer at UPS. 6 00:00:20,730 --> 00:00:24,540 Patty is an experienced senior leader with a broad background in both business 7 00:00:24,541 --> 00:00:27,000 unit and corporate headquarter environments. 8 00:00:27,390 --> 00:00:31,290 She is also a passionate leader who truly emphasizes personal development and 9 00:00:31,291 --> 00:00:33,990 the need for knowing yourself first. Next, 10 00:00:34,110 --> 00:00:37,740 you'll hear her discuss steps to successfully getting to know yourself and how 11 00:00:37,741 --> 00:00:39,510 that translates to strong leadership. 12 00:00:40,050 --> 00:00:43,410 So keep listening as we head over to the conversation now. 13 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,540 So I know our conversation for today is going to be about developing others, 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,430 but I understand it's very important to you. 15 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:59,070 And I know it's a topic that you're very passionate about. 16 00:00:59,071 --> 00:01:00,810 So for some background for our listeners, 17 00:01:00,811 --> 00:01:04,290 why don't you start off by telling us why this is so important to you? 18 00:01:05,100 --> 00:01:06,530 Well, thank you. I appreciate that. 19 00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:10,530 And I'm just going to begin with kind of an overarching statement that, 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,910 you know, what, we all have a unique purpose in our lives, right? 21 00:01:14,940 --> 00:01:19,080 We all want to make a difference for our families, 22 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,160 for our workplaces, for our country, even globally. 23 00:01:23,161 --> 00:01:26,340 And so just pause for a second and think about that. 24 00:01:26,341 --> 00:01:29,010 How do you make a difference? 25 00:01:29,011 --> 00:01:33,180 Because in my view, effective leaders, 26 00:01:33,181 --> 00:01:36,300 they have to start by knowing themselves first, 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,170 before they can start paying it forward to others. 28 00:01:40,171 --> 00:01:44,880 So for me, self journey, my self knowledge and my journey, 29 00:01:45,210 --> 00:01:46,440 that was a linchpin. 30 00:01:46,620 --> 00:01:50,340 And that's when I really started putting some of my leadership puzzle pieces 31 00:01:50,341 --> 00:01:51,174 together. 32 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:55,890 And I'm really passionate about this because I really want to share some of 33 00:01:55,891 --> 00:01:58,980 my aha moments with other people. 34 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,590 I think what I've observed is that people are often very hesitant 35 00:02:04,860 --> 00:02:09,180 to go deep inside themselves. It can be intimidating, 36 00:02:09,210 --> 00:02:11,280 it can be a little scary, 37 00:02:11,940 --> 00:02:14,490 but as I look back over the course of my career, 38 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,600 I found that I really needed to know myself first. 39 00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:23,310 And only then is when some of these other leadership traits, 40 00:02:23,580 --> 00:02:28,050 my coping mechanisms, all of that started to fall into place. 41 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:29,970 So that's why I'm so passionate about it. 42 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,570 It's very fascinating. And you know, I'm curious these aha moments, 43 00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:38,730 you know, you said a couple of times right there, 44 00:02:38,731 --> 00:02:43,650 you have to know yourself first. What does that actually look like? You know, 45 00:02:43,651 --> 00:02:48,450 and I'm sure it's different for different people. but what do you, 46 00:02:48,451 --> 00:02:51,690 what does that ultimately look like to you when you make that recognition? 47 00:02:54,130 --> 00:02:56,440 Well, I think it's knowing your style, right? 48 00:02:56,441 --> 00:03:01,060 It's what drains you of energy when you get home at the end of the day and 49 00:03:01,061 --> 00:03:05,710 you're just wiped out what happened that made that happen 50 00:03:05,711 --> 00:03:07,390 and what gives you energy? I mean, 51 00:03:07,391 --> 00:03:10,600 when you think about those moments where you're just really jazzed, 52 00:03:10,630 --> 00:03:11,950 what was that? 53 00:03:12,010 --> 00:03:16,510 What gives you energy or maybe it's where you look up at the 54 00:03:16,511 --> 00:03:21,400 clock and you've totally lost track of time. I mean, the hours have gone by, 55 00:03:21,790 --> 00:03:23,860 and you just don't even know where the time went to. 56 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,430 It's knowing that it's knowing your personality type. 57 00:03:27,460 --> 00:03:31,510 I think we all kind of have a sense of what our personality types are like, 58 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,670 what are our blind spots? Where, 59 00:03:33,671 --> 00:03:36,910 what are the landmines that we might step on more than once. 60 00:03:37,210 --> 00:03:41,110 And also it's knowing your hot buttons, right? We all, 61 00:03:41,111 --> 00:03:44,830 we all know what those are too, but I think knowing yourself is really, 62 00:03:44,831 --> 00:03:48,790 it's so important because people succeed differently. So for example, 63 00:03:49,330 --> 00:03:54,130 extroverts and introverts, they succeed very different in the world. 64 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,470 And you may, or you may not know where you fit along that 65 00:03:59,710 --> 00:04:03,130 continuum. And when I say introvert, I don't mean people that are shy. 66 00:04:03,460 --> 00:04:07,060 All right, there's a misunderstanding about introverts. 67 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,800 Introverts are people that get their energy differently from 68 00:04:11,801 --> 00:04:15,940 thoughtful and quiet activities, right? We know our extroverts love to, 69 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,920 to be around people and go to events. It doesn't mean that you're different, 70 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:24,520 you're different than in a way that you succeed differently. 71 00:04:24,820 --> 00:04:29,320 That information can be really critical to adapting 72 00:04:29,321 --> 00:04:33,580 how you lead and how you position yourself for 73 00:04:33,581 --> 00:04:36,580 advancement in your workplace. 74 00:04:37,570 --> 00:04:40,780 So there's that piece of it by knowing yourself and even on a more personal 75 00:04:40,781 --> 00:04:41,614 level, 76 00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:46,060 you have to know yourself to know how you cope and, 77 00:04:46,061 --> 00:04:50,500 and to conquer sometimes your own gremlins, whatever those might be. I mean, 78 00:04:50,501 --> 00:04:55,270 think about what happened to us during COVID right during this pandemic, 79 00:04:55,271 --> 00:04:59,230 our coping mechanisms were really taxed. 80 00:04:59,231 --> 00:05:03,970 They were really strained. And I think that's a global phenomenon. 81 00:05:04,150 --> 00:05:07,120 So you probably learned some things about yourself during the pandemic that you 82 00:05:07,121 --> 00:05:11,680 might not have known and some of your gremlins might've been more pronounced, 83 00:05:12,070 --> 00:05:14,860 but I think when you know yourself, 84 00:05:14,890 --> 00:05:17,920 you're aware of your thoughts, you know, 85 00:05:17,921 --> 00:05:22,810 how you talk to yourself and you can talk yourself through moments 86 00:05:22,811 --> 00:05:26,320 of fear or uncertainty, you know, 87 00:05:26,321 --> 00:05:31,150 how to speak to yourself in the third person. So, you know, 88 00:05:31,151 --> 00:05:33,730 you think about the movie that runs in your head and you know, 89 00:05:33,731 --> 00:05:36,550 you tell yourself, oh my God, I can't believe I screwed up or I, 90 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:37,780 how could I have done that? 91 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:42,880 There is not a third person that would speak to you the way you speak to 92 00:05:42,881 --> 00:05:47,830 yourself. So try talking to yourself, 93 00:05:47,831 --> 00:05:50,890 like another, someone who loved you would speak to you, they'd say, 94 00:05:50,891 --> 00:05:52,420 you know what? You tried your best, 95 00:05:52,421 --> 00:05:56,440 you did the best you could with the information that you had, or yeah. You know, 96 00:05:56,441 --> 00:05:59,480 I didn't handle that so great. But you'll do better next time. 97 00:05:59,481 --> 00:06:04,400 If we speak to ourselves that way you talk to yourself, 98 00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:08,390 instead of listening to yourself, you try things like being grateful, 99 00:06:08,391 --> 00:06:12,500 when you're stressed out, because you look to the bright side of things, 100 00:06:12,501 --> 00:06:16,220 it's all that, that movie that, that plays on in your head. 101 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:18,650 and I think that's part of knowing yourself. 102 00:06:18,651 --> 00:06:23,420 It just helps all those coping mechanisms work really well. 103 00:06:23,421 --> 00:06:26,420 A good friend of mine recommended me to me once, 104 00:06:26,421 --> 00:06:31,040 to create an "I love Patti" box and then fill it up 105 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:34,940 with all the positive affirmations that you get that you receive. 106 00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:39,590 And then when you're having a really bad day and you need a boost, 107 00:06:39,860 --> 00:06:44,510 you just go read all those things all over again 108 00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:48,830 to say, you know what I do well, I am loved. 109 00:06:49,250 --> 00:06:52,940 And it just helps that, that inner, that inner voice. 110 00:06:53,390 --> 00:06:54,680 And I think that's really, 111 00:06:54,681 --> 00:06:58,580 really an important part of knowing yourself because knowing your style, 112 00:06:58,910 --> 00:07:00,110 knowing your energy, 113 00:07:00,380 --> 00:07:04,370 knowing how you speak to yourself is the platform for leadership. 114 00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:10,730 I think that's all amazing advice. And as you were sharing this information, 115 00:07:10,731 --> 00:07:11,780 I started thinking, you know, 116 00:07:12,110 --> 00:07:15,020 we kicked things off talking about or setting the stage, 117 00:07:15,021 --> 00:07:18,500 really developing others. And it starts with you first. And as you're speaking, 118 00:07:18,501 --> 00:07:19,430 I kind of said, you know, 119 00:07:20,030 --> 00:07:24,830 developing others that other person can still be yourself. You know, it's, 120 00:07:24,831 --> 00:07:27,590 it's, you know, it's the other person that, you know, 121 00:07:27,650 --> 00:07:31,340 people see that maybe you don't always see. So, it's really interesting. 122 00:07:31,341 --> 00:07:34,970 And as you, I can understand the more you learn about yourself, 123 00:07:34,971 --> 00:07:36,020 the easier it is, 124 00:07:36,021 --> 00:07:40,700 as you just said to then eventually develop other people other than yourself and 125 00:07:40,730 --> 00:07:42,860 lead. And it's just all full circle. 126 00:07:42,861 --> 00:07:47,780 So you'd already just mentioned a few really great techniques, but I'm sure, 127 00:07:47,781 --> 00:07:50,150 you know, you're very passionate about this. 128 00:07:50,151 --> 00:07:53,600 You have other things that we could share with the listeners, you know, 129 00:07:53,601 --> 00:07:55,580 specific steps, anything that, again, 130 00:07:55,670 --> 00:08:00,200 how do you identify when you are successful in knowing yourself, 131 00:08:00,230 --> 00:08:03,890 you know, what, how, how can our listeners take this another step further? 132 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:05,900 Yeah. well, 133 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,310 there is a wealth of information out there on the internet about personality 134 00:08:10,370 --> 00:08:12,980 types. I mean, if you, if you put that into a search engine, 135 00:08:12,981 --> 00:08:17,390 you're going to come up with a lot of, of, material. I think, 136 00:08:17,810 --> 00:08:20,210 you know, people can start with something like a Myers-Briggs assessment. 137 00:08:20,211 --> 00:08:24,380 There's a number of things that you can do that are on the internet that are, 138 00:08:24,381 --> 00:08:27,350 that are free, but that's only the beginning. 139 00:08:27,351 --> 00:08:31,310 So like for Myers-Briggs you get come back and it's a four letter, 140 00:08:31,311 --> 00:08:35,090 kind of acronym that you get, but then the hard work starts. 141 00:08:35,091 --> 00:08:39,920 You have to read about your personality type. You have to learn about you, 142 00:08:39,921 --> 00:08:43,550 it's doing the homework. I mean, 143 00:08:43,790 --> 00:08:45,890 treat it like a treasure hunt. I mean, 144 00:08:45,891 --> 00:08:49,970 why do you react and behave the way you do? I, 145 00:08:49,971 --> 00:08:53,870 when I started digging into that and go, oh my gosh, this is, so me, 146 00:08:53,871 --> 00:08:57,300 how could I not have known that this is how I'm wired? 147 00:09:00,660 --> 00:09:04,770 And this is the way I behave. And it totally made sense. 148 00:09:04,771 --> 00:09:08,760 And I think once you see yourself in that light and you know, 149 00:09:08,761 --> 00:09:12,090 that there's other people kind of like you, it becomes, 150 00:09:12,091 --> 00:09:14,940 it leads to a sense of self-acceptance. 151 00:09:15,630 --> 00:09:19,680 And I think we all can struggle with that, at, at times, 152 00:09:19,681 --> 00:09:24,150 and because I'm an accountant, I actually made a small binder. 153 00:09:24,151 --> 00:09:26,160 I called it the Patti playbook. 154 00:09:26,161 --> 00:09:28,800 I think I kinda kind of figure as I went through the, 155 00:09:28,801 --> 00:09:32,100 the Myers-Briggs material and I did all of my homework, 156 00:09:32,101 --> 00:09:37,080 but it really was eye opening and it was especially eye opening when 157 00:09:37,081 --> 00:09:39,450 I shared it with my family, I said, you know, 158 00:09:39,451 --> 00:09:43,260 when this thing happens and I behave a certain way. Yeah, that's, that's, 159 00:09:43,290 --> 00:09:47,670 that's how I'm wired. And they're like, oh, it was really, 160 00:09:47,671 --> 00:09:50,340 it was really, really eye opening for them as well. 161 00:09:52,381 --> 00:09:56,730 And they understood what's kind of hardwired, into us. 162 00:09:56,731 --> 00:09:58,950 it going beyond that some companies, 163 00:09:58,951 --> 00:10:01,980 will support the cost of what's called a Hogan assessment, 164 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,650 which is a little deeper than something like a, 165 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,450 a Myers-Brigg and companies can actually put that into maybe 166 00:10:09,780 --> 00:10:13,980 your individual development plan. So my only advice on that, 167 00:10:13,981 --> 00:10:17,490 is make sure that when you get your Hogan results back, 168 00:10:17,491 --> 00:10:21,840 you need to have an expert read that back to you. 169 00:10:21,841 --> 00:10:25,560 Somebody that's familiar with how a Hogan, 170 00:10:25,561 --> 00:10:29,580 what a Hogan is measuring and what your results mean. So, 171 00:10:29,581 --> 00:10:32,190 and the reason I say that is, unfortunately for me, 172 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,720 I spent about three years with a misunderstanding about my Hogan assessment 173 00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:41,610 and that misunderstanding actually sent me backwards a little bit. So just, 174 00:10:41,611 --> 00:10:45,180 just make sure that if you're going to have an assessment like that, 175 00:10:45,181 --> 00:10:49,140 that you really are getting expert advice on the, 176 00:10:49,141 --> 00:10:50,190 on the results. 177 00:10:52,561 --> 00:10:56,910 There's other taxonomies out there in this arena. There's one of them that puts, 178 00:10:56,911 --> 00:11:00,090 leaders into what they call the four faces. So you can, 179 00:11:00,091 --> 00:11:04,560 you can be a catalyst, a strategist, 180 00:11:05,070 --> 00:11:09,420 a steward, or an operator. Now, most accountants like us, 181 00:11:09,421 --> 00:11:13,590 we tend to be stewards and operators, because again, 182 00:11:13,591 --> 00:11:16,860 that's kind of how we're hardwired and that's why we went into the profession in 183 00:11:16,861 --> 00:11:18,840 the first place. But I will say, 184 00:11:18,841 --> 00:11:22,380 I think we all know that in a post pandemic world, 185 00:11:22,381 --> 00:11:26,640 our organizations more and more are going to be looking for us to 186 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:31,230 be catalysts, change makers and strategists. 187 00:11:31,231 --> 00:11:33,930 So it's great to be a steward and an operator, 188 00:11:33,931 --> 00:11:37,950 but knowing where you fit on that, 189 00:11:37,951 --> 00:11:42,540 that fourplex helps you understand where it is you need to 190 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:46,030 grow. I mean, ask your family. I mentioned that before, when, you know, 191 00:11:46,031 --> 00:11:49,920 I did the, my Myers-Briggs, I mean, they know you, they know your personality, 192 00:11:49,921 --> 00:11:54,520 they know how your energy ebbs and flows look for patterns on 193 00:11:54,521 --> 00:11:56,890 how you interact with them. 194 00:11:59,021 --> 00:12:01,960 Those are clues, right? And in every, in every family, 195 00:12:01,961 --> 00:12:05,950 people kind of play parts, it's kind of like a little play, but, you know, 196 00:12:05,980 --> 00:12:08,440 are the people that are closest to us. 197 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:11,800 They know our strengths and our weaknesses and our hot buttons. 198 00:12:11,801 --> 00:12:14,950 So also treat that like a little bit of a treasure hunt, 199 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:18,910 ask your family members about you and getting to know yourself. 200 00:12:18,911 --> 00:12:23,050 Next you can turn to the workplace. So what is, 201 00:12:23,051 --> 00:12:28,030 what's the word about you at work? What's your buzz? Both from your boss, 202 00:12:28,031 --> 00:12:31,150 from the folks at work, from you, from your peers, 203 00:12:31,151 --> 00:12:34,780 and if you don't know what that is, 204 00:12:34,781 --> 00:12:38,650 I would recommend that you need to find out. and don't just ask for feedback, 205 00:12:38,651 --> 00:12:42,010 just general feedback from them. I mean, you ask, 206 00:12:42,011 --> 00:12:44,740 once you're learning about yourself, ask some really, 207 00:12:44,741 --> 00:12:49,000 really specific questions. and let me just give you an example. 208 00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,870 So a question, a specific question might be, 209 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,580 what's the one key thing that I could change in order 210 00:12:57,581 --> 00:12:59,620 to become more approachable. 211 00:12:59,621 --> 00:13:03,940 If that's something you're working on or another question might be, 212 00:13:03,941 --> 00:13:08,620 what do you know that I will never get to know, 213 00:13:08,621 --> 00:13:13,600 but I really need to know that that one was really open-ended question that 214 00:13:13,601 --> 00:13:15,910 you could ask some of your coworkers or your boss, 215 00:13:15,911 --> 00:13:19,810 and that really elicits a lot of, of openness from people. 216 00:13:19,811 --> 00:13:23,980 And I guess the last thing on this topic, I would say just, you know, 217 00:13:23,981 --> 00:13:26,800 getting to know yourself and your steps along the way is, 218 00:13:26,801 --> 00:13:29,710 remember when you're done with this, your greatest strength. Well, 219 00:13:29,711 --> 00:13:34,510 that's also your greatest weakness, right? So for example, accountants, 220 00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:36,850 we love certainty. We love detail. 221 00:13:36,851 --> 00:13:41,110 We love the fact that there's just one answer. That's our craft. 222 00:13:41,111 --> 00:13:42,460 That's what we do. 223 00:13:42,461 --> 00:13:47,290 But I think we also know that we need to learn to live in lots of shades 224 00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:50,920 of gray, rather than the black and white, 225 00:13:50,921 --> 00:13:54,550 organizations are asking us to see the big picture, 226 00:13:54,551 --> 00:13:58,840 get up to 50,000 feet, be able to speak, you know, in, 227 00:13:58,870 --> 00:14:03,040 non-accounting ways to other folks in our organization. 228 00:14:03,610 --> 00:14:07,210 And also remember your strength is your weakness. For example, going back to, 229 00:14:07,211 --> 00:14:09,820 if you're an introvert, how awesome is that? 230 00:14:09,940 --> 00:14:14,740 That's a strength where you're going to pick up on clues that other people might 231 00:14:14,741 --> 00:14:19,030 miss. And you're going to balance out your team with diversity of thought, 232 00:14:19,870 --> 00:14:23,410 but also know that you have to modulate. You have to be an extrovert. 233 00:14:23,411 --> 00:14:26,890 Sometimes you need to turn it on when you need to not, not 24/7, 234 00:14:26,891 --> 00:14:29,590 not all the time, not asking you to change who you are, 235 00:14:29,890 --> 00:14:31,720 but we also know that in corporate America, 236 00:14:31,930 --> 00:14:34,270 you need to be able to modulate back and forth. 237 00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:38,950 And when you can be honest with yourself along this journey, 238 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,070 that is when you will really know that you're growing. 239 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:47,710 And I love how you continue to bring this back to accounting, because, you know, 240 00:14:47,711 --> 00:14:50,110 particularly here, obviously with IMA, 241 00:14:50,111 --> 00:14:53,870 we're really focused on the evolution of the profession, right? 242 00:14:53,871 --> 00:14:57,740 The future of the profession and upscaling, and you mentioned a lot about, 243 00:14:57,741 --> 00:14:58,221 you know, 244 00:14:58,221 --> 00:15:02,750 being able to tell the whole story to those non-finance people and a big word 245 00:15:02,751 --> 00:15:06,380 around IMA that we use is being adaptive. Right. 246 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,450 And being able to take that next step, particularly the last year and a half, 247 00:15:11,451 --> 00:15:13,970 you know, how everybody was forced to adapt, 248 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,770 but our real leadership strength there. So I want to keep our conversation here, 249 00:15:18,771 --> 00:15:23,450 going in that direction, you know, turning to adaptable leadership. 250 00:15:24,290 --> 00:15:28,130 What are some of the things that you've experienced and what is this dynamic 251 00:15:28,131 --> 00:15:28,761 really look like? 252 00:15:28,761 --> 00:15:33,650 How does knowing yourself and becoming adaptable tie in with leadership 253 00:15:33,651 --> 00:15:37,070 and, you know, just bring it full circle for this conversation. 254 00:15:37,970 --> 00:15:39,020 Yeah, well, 255 00:15:39,530 --> 00:15:44,240 I think people are like puzzles and most accountants really 256 00:15:44,241 --> 00:15:46,730 love problem solving. We probably like puzzles. 257 00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:50,990 So understanding people and leading people is, 258 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:55,550 is rather the same because there's no two puzzles that are alike. And I mean, 259 00:15:55,551 --> 00:16:00,170 if you look at online again about books that are written on leadership or 260 00:16:00,171 --> 00:16:03,620 adaptable leadership, I mean, there are oceans of books. It's, 261 00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:07,610 it's actually really confusing, you know, on what you know, 262 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,140 which is why I want you to go deep first. 263 00:16:09,141 --> 00:16:14,000 I want you to understand yourself first so that you can understand 264 00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:17,360 who you are and what you bring to leadership. 265 00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:21,650 And I think that also informs you, 266 00:16:21,740 --> 00:16:26,720 that you have to find your way in leading you 267 00:16:26,721 --> 00:16:28,670 won't lead like your boss, 268 00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:33,740 you will lead like you because you are unique, 269 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,180 your blending, 270 00:16:35,390 --> 00:16:39,830 the best of the people that you've worked with and worked around and you've 271 00:16:39,831 --> 00:16:41,030 absorbed all of that. 272 00:16:41,331 --> 00:16:46,280 And you're customizing it along with your personality and adapting 273 00:16:46,281 --> 00:16:49,610 all of that into this, this puzzle. That's you. 274 00:16:49,611 --> 00:16:51,050 And I will say that I personally, 275 00:16:51,051 --> 00:16:55,820 I spent too much time trying to be a clone for one of 276 00:16:55,821 --> 00:17:00,470 my bosses thinking that that was the only way to lead, 277 00:17:00,710 --> 00:17:02,990 but you know what? I wasn't cut out of that same cloth. 278 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,920 I wasn't raised to the same way in my family of origin. 279 00:17:06,921 --> 00:17:09,020 I didn't have the same work experiences. 280 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,670 So I wasted a lot of time thinking that I had to be them 281 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,920 when I should have been again, 282 00:17:15,980 --> 00:17:20,980 investing more in me and adaptable leadership comes back to 283 00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:24,320 modulating. So remember when we talked about that in the last section, right? 284 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,390 Modulating, introvert, or extrovert, or, you know, kind of knowing yourself, 285 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,260 managing yourself, this is the exact same thing, 286 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:38,180 leaders modulate to get the most out of every 287 00:17:38,181 --> 00:17:42,380 person's different strengths they're putting together their puzzle, 288 00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:45,440 right. And their uniqueness. 289 00:17:45,441 --> 00:17:49,290 So when you're adjusting your style to what everybody needs, 290 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,100 what each person needs is called situational leadership, right? 291 00:17:53,101 --> 00:17:57,780 It's this modulating, it's that adjusting. and it's tough. 292 00:17:57,870 --> 00:18:00,930 I think for accountants, again, they kind of want a single answer. 293 00:18:01,380 --> 00:18:03,330 When you learn how to manage a group of people, 294 00:18:03,331 --> 00:18:06,270 you want to be able to take that cookie cutter and move to a new group and say, 295 00:18:06,271 --> 00:18:09,960 okay, I know how to manage now, but you don't. Right? 296 00:18:09,961 --> 00:18:11,280 Because when you move, 297 00:18:11,281 --> 00:18:14,940 it's a whole different set of puzzles and a whole different group of people. 298 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:19,860 But that's another place where we really have to live in the gray and we have to 299 00:18:19,861 --> 00:18:24,270 experiment right. The first time that you work about around someone, 300 00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:26,460 that's just argumentative. You know, 301 00:18:26,461 --> 00:18:30,630 you learn how to deal with an argumentative person it's called situational 302 00:18:30,631 --> 00:18:34,650 leadership. And then you're going to take that learning and adapt again. 303 00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:37,800 And you, now, you're, now you're going to know how to, how to do that. 304 00:18:38,190 --> 00:18:41,970 I think also adaptable leadership is how you build out your group, right? 305 00:18:41,971 --> 00:18:45,240 When you are comfortable in your own skin and you know yourself, 306 00:18:45,241 --> 00:18:49,560 and you look around your team and you can see those strengths and weaknesses in 307 00:18:49,561 --> 00:18:50,394 your team, 308 00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:55,470 you also know that you have to build a diverse group of thinkers because you 309 00:18:55,471 --> 00:18:59,910 don't want people around you that just agree with you or look like you, 310 00:18:59,911 --> 00:19:04,770 or act like you, or think like you, which is really our human tendency, right? 311 00:19:04,771 --> 00:19:08,760 We like being around people that are similar to us that are kind of in our tribe 312 00:19:08,790 --> 00:19:09,810 or the way we think. 313 00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:15,210 But when we welcome dissenting opinions is when we really get 314 00:19:15,211 --> 00:19:18,030 the best out of being an adaptable leader. 315 00:19:18,420 --> 00:19:22,470 And it's really fascinating to ask people that are different from you. 316 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,550 This question, what would you do if you were me, 317 00:19:27,270 --> 00:19:29,880 because you're going to get a really different answer. 318 00:19:30,330 --> 00:19:35,220 But that diversity of thought from being an adaptable leader and welcoming 319 00:19:35,221 --> 00:19:38,940 those dissenting opinions are going to be really informative. 320 00:19:38,941 --> 00:19:42,600 And you'll be better because of the diverse group of thinkers that you brought 321 00:19:42,601 --> 00:19:46,440 together. But again, that's got to come back to do you know yourself, 322 00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:51,840 and have you looked at that situational leadership and your team to know 323 00:19:51,841 --> 00:19:52,620 how your, 324 00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:57,210 how your group needs to be rounded out with all of those skills and talents and 325 00:19:57,211 --> 00:19:58,044 opinions. 326 00:19:58,980 --> 00:20:01,890 And let's keep going on that topic for just a moment here, 327 00:20:01,891 --> 00:20:03,870 you were talking about kind of building out your team. 328 00:20:03,871 --> 00:20:08,550 And I think one of the best representations of a good leader is, you know, 329 00:20:08,820 --> 00:20:12,900 their tree, right? The people that they develop and, and who's next, 330 00:20:12,901 --> 00:20:17,460 essentially. So when we are talking about our team and developing others, 331 00:20:18,540 --> 00:20:22,440 how should young leaders think about developing their own strengths? And, 332 00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:25,080 you know, obviously knowing yourself first, 333 00:20:25,081 --> 00:20:28,080 I think has to be first and foremost in communicating that to them. 334 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:32,190 But as a leader, communicating to future leaders, 335 00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:33,960 what's the thought process, you know, 336 00:20:33,961 --> 00:20:36,750 how do we go about instilling this mindset with them? 337 00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:41,310 Yeah. I think one of the things they have to understand early, or, you know, 338 00:20:41,311 --> 00:20:45,600 young leaders is that, you know, your career is not a ladder, it's a jungle gym. 339 00:20:46,110 --> 00:20:47,680 It's going to be lots of jumping around. 340 00:20:47,681 --> 00:20:52,600 Early in a career I really ask young, young people, 341 00:20:52,601 --> 00:20:56,320 young leaders to focus really on their self-development first, right? 342 00:20:56,530 --> 00:21:01,180 Your path to success in general is always going to include 343 00:21:01,181 --> 00:21:05,350 being hardworking, reliable, results-oriented, 344 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,180 trustworthy, and in our profession, 345 00:21:10,181 --> 00:21:12,310 extremely ethical. 346 00:21:12,311 --> 00:21:17,230 All of those things are what you have to build out in the first 347 00:21:17,231 --> 00:21:21,760 stages of your career. I also tell people to take notes. I mean, I mean, 348 00:21:21,761 --> 00:21:25,960 literally take notes, observe leaders around you. 349 00:21:25,961 --> 00:21:29,380 What is it that you want to emulate? What do you like, 350 00:21:29,381 --> 00:21:34,180 what do you think you can do when the way your built your 351 00:21:34,780 --> 00:21:37,000 personality? Who do you want to be like? 352 00:21:38,201 --> 00:21:41,200 And then also kind of who do you want to avoid? 353 00:21:41,201 --> 00:21:45,070 We all have those people that we work with for, or around where we go, oh, 354 00:21:45,071 --> 00:21:47,830 I'm never going to do that. But, but know that, 355 00:21:47,831 --> 00:21:52,420 I mean really study other leaders, 356 00:21:52,690 --> 00:21:54,460 make yourself a little cheat-sheet. 357 00:21:54,461 --> 00:21:58,990 It's actually fascinating if you do this over a period of years to go back and 358 00:21:58,991 --> 00:22:02,650 look at some of your early notes of what you were learning, 359 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,840 because now you've absorbed them and they're really, 360 00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:05,980 they kind of become part of you. 361 00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:09,100 So I think your early career really has to focus around self-development. 362 00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:15,040 And then how about later in the career, you know, your, mid stage, 363 00:22:15,041 --> 00:22:18,100 late stages of your career, and again, we're talking about leadership, 364 00:22:18,101 --> 00:22:21,610 how does your mindset and your approach to this mindset vary? 365 00:22:23,230 --> 00:22:26,320 Yeah. So by mid career, we hope that all of us have kind of, 366 00:22:26,350 --> 00:22:31,000 had that subject matter expertise. That's that's largely been mastered, right? 367 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,370 You've got that in your rear view mirror. You've 368 00:22:35,351 --> 00:22:37,270 mastered your craft. 369 00:22:37,271 --> 00:22:41,800 Your roles that you're taking on in your mid career are now demanding kind of 370 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,730 more ownership, more responsibility, and certainly more leadership. 371 00:22:45,731 --> 00:22:50,170 This is where you're transitioning from being a subject matter expert 372 00:22:50,530 --> 00:22:51,610 or IQ, 373 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,630 more towards EQ or emotional knowledge. 374 00:22:55,631 --> 00:22:57,580 And that's also where your hard work, 375 00:22:57,581 --> 00:23:01,510 and investment from knowing yourself is really going to start 376 00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:04,660 to accelerate your effectiveness. This is where, 377 00:23:04,661 --> 00:23:07,300 where it really starts to gel. 378 00:23:07,490 --> 00:23:10,540 There's a good book for mid career that I liked. It was called, 379 00:23:10,541 --> 00:23:13,780 "What Got You Here Won't Get You There". It's by Marshall Goldsmith, 380 00:23:13,781 --> 00:23:17,800 I found that one particularly helpful just to kind of sometimes get you out of 381 00:23:17,801 --> 00:23:21,130 the little, the little rut, that, that you're in. 382 00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:26,470 The other thing kind of shifts in mid or late career about 383 00:23:26,530 --> 00:23:30,790 leadership is also the leaders that you have. 384 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,400 And let me explain what I mean by that. 385 00:23:33,401 --> 00:23:37,360 So you need to make sure that you've got sponsors. Now, 386 00:23:37,361 --> 00:23:40,390 sponsors are different from mentors and coaches. What do I, 387 00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:44,680 what do I mean by that? So coach just like in sports or other things, 388 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:49,190 they show you how mentors can give you 389 00:23:49,220 --> 00:23:52,070 advice, but sponsors, 390 00:23:52,460 --> 00:23:56,690 those are the folks that speak up for you when it's time for decision. 391 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,550 Those are the folks that are powerful enough to be in the room 392 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,100 when decisions are being made about you, 393 00:24:04,101 --> 00:24:07,310 about you and your development and your assignment. 394 00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:11,780 So I think that's it. It's not specifically your leadership, 395 00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:16,670 but it's something you need to be very mindful of about leadership in general is 396 00:24:16,671 --> 00:24:20,270 just to make sure that you've got sponsors. 397 00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:24,590 And I think the other thing that's super 398 00:24:25,490 --> 00:24:28,880 important in this mid-career is asking. 399 00:24:29,510 --> 00:24:31,550 If you don't ask you don't get, 400 00:24:31,551 --> 00:24:36,080 I have a quote that's actually taped on the bottom part of 401 00:24:36,651 --> 00:24:39,230 my monitor by my computer. And it says, 402 00:24:39,231 --> 00:24:43,430 if you don't go after what you want, you'll never have it. 403 00:24:43,431 --> 00:24:47,330 If you don't ask the answer will always be no. 404 00:24:47,331 --> 00:24:51,650 And if you don't step forward, you're always going to be in the same place. 405 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,780 So it's just a really good reminder. 406 00:24:53,781 --> 00:24:58,490 That's super important in that mid-career ask and ask 407 00:24:59,090 --> 00:25:02,900 and ask. In mature career, I'll call it mature career, right? 408 00:25:02,901 --> 00:25:07,340 comes the ability really to influence that's where you start to really 409 00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:12,110 affect change. And when we get to this part of the leadership journey, 410 00:25:12,111 --> 00:25:14,900 I think that, you know, the leadership traits here, 411 00:25:14,930 --> 00:25:19,490 also include really being able to communicate with nonfinancial 412 00:25:19,491 --> 00:25:21,530 executives in your business. 413 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:26,510 It's the part of your career where you're really taking risks outside of your 414 00:25:26,511 --> 00:25:29,630 comfort area. If you've always been in an accounting vertical, 415 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,700 maybe you're taking a leap over into a business unit or planning 416 00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:37,370 or marketing or something like that. 417 00:25:37,371 --> 00:25:41,300 It's getting comfortable with being uncomfortable. 418 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,250 That stage is where you really kind of learn to respect the culture of politics 419 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,250 doesn't mean that you have to necessarily adopt it, 420 00:25:49,251 --> 00:25:52,160 but you have to respect the culture politics. 421 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,870 You have to get comfortable in your leadership role to know enough 422 00:25:57,860 --> 00:26:02,240 to not to miss out on anything important, but you don't need to know it all. 423 00:26:02,780 --> 00:26:04,400 And I think for accountants, 424 00:26:04,401 --> 00:26:08,990 that's really hard because we really love knowing all the rules. 425 00:26:08,991 --> 00:26:13,940 We really love the detail and separating yourself from that and 426 00:26:13,941 --> 00:26:18,290 being okay with knowing just enough is kind of a difficult 427 00:26:18,291 --> 00:26:22,880 transition in that part of your career here also in this time, 428 00:26:22,910 --> 00:26:26,750 you're spending more and more time developing your people. 429 00:26:26,810 --> 00:26:29,690 And so all these things we've talked about, about your leadership, 430 00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:32,540 knowing yourself, taking risks, 431 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,260 asking this is where it all comes to a crescendo, 432 00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:39,260 because this is where you're developing your people. 433 00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:44,100 You're asking lots of questions rather than you're asking more than you're 434 00:26:44,101 --> 00:26:48,750 telling and you're really see being able to focus on 435 00:26:48,991 --> 00:26:52,050 developing all, all of that learning in into your people. 436 00:26:53,370 --> 00:26:56,100 Well, Patty, this has been incredibly insightful. 437 00:26:56,130 --> 00:26:59,430 I've honestly really enjoyed this whole conversation and I just, 438 00:26:59,460 --> 00:27:01,530 am very appreciative of everything you shared. 439 00:27:01,531 --> 00:27:05,490 And I want to give you an opportunity if there are any final thoughts that you 440 00:27:05,491 --> 00:27:08,130 have on this topic that you would like to kind of wrap up with. 441 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,790 Yeah. So just you're right. Just kind of wrap this all together. 442 00:27:11,791 --> 00:27:16,200 So the journey of a leader, I think has several key skills. 443 00:27:16,201 --> 00:27:17,820 As I think about it. First, 444 00:27:17,821 --> 00:27:22,680 we talked about invest in your own learning and I mean your intellect and your 445 00:27:22,681 --> 00:27:25,830 personality, that's the investment you make in yourself. 446 00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:30,930 It's hiring those exceptional leaders for your team, that diversity of thought, 447 00:27:31,380 --> 00:27:34,950 and really developing those, those self-reliant teams. 448 00:27:34,951 --> 00:27:39,810 It's getting out of the details and not micro-managing as hard as that 449 00:27:39,811 --> 00:27:42,510 might be. We talked about communicating, right? 450 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,140 You got to communicate in all directions up, down and sideways. 451 00:27:46,141 --> 00:27:50,010 And I think lastly, one of my favorites is Bernay Brown. 452 00:27:51,271 --> 00:27:56,220 She has a pretty famous, Ted talk. It's about vulnerability and authenticity. 453 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,140 It's admitting when you're wrong, 454 00:27:58,530 --> 00:28:01,380 it's being human and it's being humble. 455 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:07,170 I think every one of us has such great potential to make 456 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,350 a difference. So I have another small reminder. 457 00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:13,950 That's taped my computer monitor that reminds me, 458 00:28:13,951 --> 00:28:18,660 and it says be who you are meant to be, and you will set the world on fire. 459 00:28:19,590 --> 00:28:21,510 So thank you very much for your time today. 460 00:28:21,540 --> 00:28:23,940 I hope that some of these thoughts have been helpful. 461 00:28:26,430 --> 00:28:27,480 This has been Count Me In, 462 00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:32,280 IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from 463 00:28:32,281 --> 00:28:35,220 the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard, 464 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,280 and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance 465 00:28:38,281 --> 00:28:39,090 education, 466 00:28:39,090 --> 00:28:43,320 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.