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Speaker: Welcome to the Honest Money
Show a big thanks to our sponsor.

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Shop Bitcoin Australia for
making today's episode possible.

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Anja: Hello.

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Joining me today is Elle.

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Elle is the organizer of
women in Bitcoin Sydney.

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She's a Gen Z Bitcoin, and today
she's here to share her perspective.

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Welcome to Honest Money El

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El: Thank you so much for having me, Anya.

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Um, I'm super excited to dive into what
Bitcoin means for Gen Z. What stands

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in the way of Gen Z Bitcoin adoption.

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Also, I'm really keen to talk about,
um, my work at Women in Bitcoin,

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Sydney and the type of, uh, attitudes
and sentiment toward Bitcoin I've

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seen throughout my attendees.

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Love it.

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But before we dive into those
topics, I'm very curious to

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know about your origin story.

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How did you get into Bitcoin?

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So, I got into Bitcoin
when I was about 20.

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I basically, I've always been
a really, really good saver.

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Um, and I was working intermittently
from when I was about 13.

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So I'd saved up, you know,
I'd saved up some money.

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And I saw it just slipping
through my fingers with inflation.

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Um, and so when I was about 20,
I was looking for alternatives.

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I was looking into property in Australia
because this is something we as

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Australians, but of course as young
people as well, are told, um, to work

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towards, to get on the property ladder
and build your wealth in that manner.

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Anyway, I was looking into
it and I wasn't particularly

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satisfied with what I was seeing.

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I wasn't satisfied with, uh, the
type of risk that I would have to

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take on, and I also wasn't sure if
I wanted to live in a property or if

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I wanted to rent it out and all the
tax implications that come with it.

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Um, and around this time I was introduced
to Bitcoin through someone in the

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space, and I was kind of more passively
listening for a few months, but something

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about it really piqued my interest.

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I couldn't tell you exactly what it was.

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I would like to think it was because I
was really kind of fleshing out my own,

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um, political position at the time, and
I was leaning much more toward freedom.

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And Bitcoin really does align with
freedom minded individuals and, uh, like

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freedom centered political positions.

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So I guess that in conjunction with
probably everything else and the pressure

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of, uh, the cost of living in Australia
and in Sydney where I am especially,

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uh, really pushed me toward seeking
an alternative solution to housing.

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And that happened to come
in the form of Bitcoin.

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After passively listening, I
decided to do some research into it.

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I initially approached it from much more
of a political angle rather than focusing

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on the more technical side of Bitcoin.

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And for me, that was actually kind of.

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It was really, really good.

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But I did find that a lot of
the communication in the Bitcoin

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space was highly technical, which
is not what I was interested in.

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So I did have to do a bit of digging
for, uh, this information, but I watched,

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or I listened to the What is Money show
from, uh, Robert Breedlove, and I read,

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um, the Bitcoin standard, and I was
also reading at the time various, uh,

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economic books and various political
books that really aligned with, um,

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really radical self-responsibility
and the separation of money and state.

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All of this accumulated to
me understanding the problem,

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understanding why Bitcoin could
be the solution, and I was already

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in a position where I had money.

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I wanted to invest in something, so I put
some skin in the game and that made me.

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Do more research a lot faster, made
me understand things a lot better.

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And then within a matter of months,
I was pretty much completely orange

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peeled and I became a Bitcoin.

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That's my origin story.

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Anja: I love it.

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I love it.

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And there's so many angles that
we can take this conversation in.

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I am curious now in hindsight, do
you think it was a good decision

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to choose Bitcoin over property?

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El: Yes.

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1 million times.

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Yes, I do.

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I think, I think in so many different
ways, it was much better for me to

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choose Bitcoin over property primarily
because I didn't have to take out,

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um, debt to purchase any Bitcoin.

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I could purchase Bitcoin with the
money that I had, and I didn't

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have to take on that excess risk.

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I could also purchase Bitcoin.

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Like whatever time of day I wanted
to, whatever time of week I wanted to,

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I didn't have to wait for aside for
it from initial, like KYC approval.

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And then occasionally
my bank would block me.

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Aside from that, I didn't have to
wait for, um, like massive approval

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for, for that you would have to
wait for if you're buying property.

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Uh, I could also buy a fraction
of Bitcoin if I wanted to.

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I could buy anywhere from $5 worth of
Bitcoin if I wanted to DCA, my daily

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coffee order, or I could buy a hundred
thousand dollars if I wanted to.

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And this was no problem with housing.

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This is very, very different.

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Of course, you can't really
buy a singular room in a house.

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You can't buy a fraction of a house
or a fraction of an apartment.

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You have to go all in and
hope that it works out.

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Um, also in terms of my.

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Capital growth.

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It is done exponentially better in Bitcoin
than it would've done in a singular,

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probably very small, given the fact that
I would've purchased property at 19 or 20.

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Very small house.

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Bitcoin has done so much better than that.

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And with it, you get, um,
the security of, of privacy.

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You get to know that your Bitcoin
is not going to be seized by

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anyone or any, any government.

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Um, and it's, it's, it's censorship
resistant as well, which is really

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important for me when I am very
vocal about what is going on in

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the political climate in the world.

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I do fear that down the line, people who
speak up in the manner that I do face

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the risk of being censored financially.

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And if you have a physical
property, this is.

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Relatively easy to seize.

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Also, if you have money in the bank,
as we know, this is incredibly easy to

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seize and it will be done at some point.

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Bitcoin gives me that peace of mind
that my money, my capital is safe

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and the only person who can move
it is me when I choose to do it.

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So yes, to answer your question, I am
so, so glad that I chose Bitcoin over

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property for uh, uh, a million reasons.

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Yeah,

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Anja: yeah.

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And I love that you said
that you were a saver.

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'cause that's very much something
I can relate to as well.

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Like I always thought saving
money was so underrated.

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And growing up in Australia and being
schooled here, I remember very early

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on being taught about like budgeting
and saving and you know, keeping a

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budget, knowing how much you can spend
and not spending more than you save,

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and not spending more than you earn.

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But nowhere in that conversation
until very late in my life.

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Until I discovered Bitcoin, did the,
like, the, the theme of inflation and

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Australian dollar debasement come into the
picture because you're not taught this.

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And it's almost like you are a fish
swimming in a pond, not knowing

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that the water is all around you.

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Like where's the water?

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It's like everywhere.

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And that kind of what the debt,
um, debt-based system feels like.

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We are so deeply ingrained in it
that it's not even like a question.

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Um, we don't question how abnormal that
whole system is where you have to go

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into debt in order to get ahead in life.

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It just seems bizarre, um,
when you kind of zoom out.

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This wasn't a reality that humanity had
to deal with until relatively recently.

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And, um, I, I love teaching people
the history of money more than

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anything because it really opens
their mind to other possibilities

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that they didn't know were possible.

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'cause we're all born into the system.

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I had no idea.

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Like, um,

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El: yeah, no, that is, that is so true.

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Um, like the person I think who
instilled this value of saving

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in me was definitely my mom.

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She was, was, and still is
a very, very good saver.

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But beyond that, she never really
had, um, an understanding of inflation

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or, you know, how much your money
needs to work to actually outpace

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inflation or currency debasement.

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So she always had this idea that, um,
if you put your money in something

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like a term deposit, which could
yield maybe 4%, um, a year or 4%

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over the, whatever term you choose.

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But that would, that would be fine
and that would outpace inflation

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because what she would see on the
news is what two 3% CPI, and that's,

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that would be her, her yardstick to
measure the growth of her capital.

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You actually look into it.

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And if you're putting your money somewhere
where it's growing 4% a year, you are

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still lagging behind, as I'm sure you
are all over as many other bitcoiners.

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CPI is not an adequate way to measure
like real cost of living inflation at all.

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And yet it is the tool that
is used to adjust wages or,

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uh, a adjust interest rates.

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But it's, it's a completely flawed tool.

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It's also something that informs how
people save and what people deem as,

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as an okay return of, um, investment.

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4% a year in, uh, a
term deposit is nothing.

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You know, we can estimate that
inflation in Australia is maybe

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around eight or 9% a year.

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So you're actually
losing money even though.

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In theory, you're gaining 4%, you are
actually losing like three to 5% a year.

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Yeah.

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And this is something that a
lot of people don't understand.

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And my mom bless her, really good
at saving, but she, she did not

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understand this and so she couldn't
pass along that really vital information

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to me, which is something I found
out like blessed be early in life.

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I was about 19, 20 when I found all this
out so I could change it very rapidly.

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But a lot of people don't know.

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A lot of people will never find out, and
instead they're just unfortunately going

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to have to keep working so incredibly
hard to just lose money year on year.

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And all of this, mind you, you
are losing money while this whole

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time the assets that you want to
purchase, say a house to live in,

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for example, are increasing in price.

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So the, the distance between you and
home ownership is exponentially widening.

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And it's just, it's something
that people don't understand.

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It's not taught, it's typically
not passed down generationally

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because people just don't know.

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It's not taught in school.

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At least not well, and not in my
experience, it's not taught in university.

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In fact, the opposite is taught in
university typically with this very sian

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outlook on the economy where inflation
is deemed to be absolutely necessary.

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Um, so what, what do people do?

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They have to spend tens of hours
or thousands of hours researching

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finance and researching the
economy and researching history.

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A lot of people do not have the
capacity to do that, and nor

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do they really have the time.

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But you need to do that.

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Otherwise you're not going to
win in this very rigged game.

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Anja: Yeah, and they shouldn't have to.

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El: It's, it's crazy to me.

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Anja: It, it really is.

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No, and I absolutely love
as well that you know.

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You mentioned you got, you
learned, saving from your mom.

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Um, I think that is such a beautiful
thing to save and it just speaks to

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humanity like in our human action and
human behavior, the fact that we as,

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as species always look to the future.

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So whether you are pickling vegetables,
to have them enjoy them in the winter,

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whether you are saving money to, to, to,
you know, for something, um, spending in

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the future, like it's just such a normal.

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Part of life.

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And it's something that has kind
of been taken away from so silently

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without us necessarily even knowing.

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'cause I have heard of inflation
earlier on before I discovered

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Bitcoin, but I never questioned it.

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I never questioned it.

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Two or 3%.

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Um, that's advertised as like
a target, where it comes from.

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Why is it set that way?

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How did they come up with this figure?

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Like they can't even answer it.

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Um, nobody has the answer for it
because it's completely arbitrary.

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And yeah, I just, I wanna come back to
a world where savings are great again.

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And I also think this is
a very feminine thing.

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I wonder as well if like, women
being gatherers, just like gathering

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things, like we like saving our nuts.

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We like saving our Bitcoin,
we like blueberries.

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I don't know, we like
to gather things like.

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El: No, I think that's, I think
that is really, really true.

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And I think women typically, once
we decide to do something, um, in

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terms of our personal finances,
because we are more risk averse than

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men, we typically stick with it and
we stick with it quite strongly.

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00:14:20,607 --> 00:14:26,517
So if we can eventually, you know,
in my utopia, um, get all the

229
00:14:26,517 --> 00:14:31,617
ladies in the world to become sat
stackers, this would be fantastic.

230
00:14:31,617 --> 00:14:36,057
Because they're not, they're not
really going to, to change from that

231
00:14:36,057 --> 00:14:38,067
because the risk is just too high.

232
00:14:38,727 --> 00:14:41,877
Um, so yeah, I think you're completely,
I think you're completely correct.

233
00:14:41,877 --> 00:14:46,137
Saving and retaining what you have
is something that is very feminine.

234
00:14:46,587 --> 00:14:51,657
I do think this could be extrapolated
to women's involvement in Bitcoin,

235
00:14:51,687 --> 00:14:55,857
and I, I do think that if women
get over that initial hurdle or

236
00:14:55,917 --> 00:14:57,642
presumption of risk in Bitcoin.

237
00:14:58,467 --> 00:15:06,027
Then they will be probably some
of the most like hardy, um, uh,

238
00:15:06,057 --> 00:15:10,887
balanced bitcoiners that there could
be because they're just not going

239
00:15:10,887 --> 00:15:15,447
to want to change from that and,
um, incur new or different risk.

240
00:15:17,502 --> 00:15:21,012
Anja: I actually heard from Andrew Page
and we had this discussion when we stopped

241
00:15:21,012 --> 00:15:25,812
recording our podcast, but I absolutely
love what he taught me and coming

242
00:15:25,812 --> 00:15:27,582
from him, I do believe this is true.

243
00:15:28,032 --> 00:15:33,612
So we spoke about risk and, and investing
in general, and he said he's come

244
00:15:33,612 --> 00:15:38,262
across studies that show that women
are better investors than men overall.

245
00:15:38,562 --> 00:15:42,432
And I think that partly comes to,
you know, comes to do with like

246
00:15:42,432 --> 00:15:46,302
less risk taking and just finding
a consistent thing and not trying

247
00:15:46,302 --> 00:15:49,542
to, you know, take on a lot of risk.

248
00:15:49,542 --> 00:15:53,082
Like for example, before I was
into Bitcoin, I was s and p 500

249
00:15:53,082 --> 00:15:55,362
all the way broad based index fund.

250
00:15:55,542 --> 00:15:57,852
You know, I'm not trying to
look at individual stocks.

251
00:15:57,852 --> 00:16:00,492
I'm not trying to risk my money,
I just want something that works.

252
00:16:00,732 --> 00:16:03,162
Warren Buffet style set and forget.

253
00:16:03,642 --> 00:16:09,672
So what, what I love that he said is that
overall studies show women are better,

254
00:16:09,972 --> 00:16:13,317
um, investors, but the best investors are.

255
00:16:14,097 --> 00:16:18,327
Male and female, like couples
essentially doing it together.

256
00:16:18,387 --> 00:16:21,237
'cause then they leverage
the best of both worlds.

257
00:16:21,237 --> 00:16:23,457
Like, I don't know,
safety and risk-taking.

258
00:16:23,457 --> 00:16:26,007
And I guess they discuss
those strategies together.

259
00:16:26,007 --> 00:16:30,657
So I think it would be really powerful
to have more women, um, you know, who

260
00:16:30,657 --> 00:16:33,927
are coupled with Bitcoiners and who
might think, you know, their partners

261
00:16:33,927 --> 00:16:37,857
are absolutely nuts for, for taking a
risk on Bitcoin, understand this thing

262
00:16:37,857 --> 00:16:42,267
and work together to actually really
create true generational family wealth.

263
00:16:42,267 --> 00:16:47,427
Because that's, that's something
that, yeah, is my, um, utopian moment.

264
00:16:47,932 --> 00:16:48,222
El: Yeah.

265
00:16:48,227 --> 00:16:48,627
Yeah.

266
00:16:48,627 --> 00:16:54,717
I think of course like if you combine the
mind of, uh, a somewhat responsible man

267
00:16:54,717 --> 00:16:59,007
and the mind of a somewhat responsible
woman, I think together they're going to

268
00:16:59,037 --> 00:17:04,107
initiate a better outcome than if it were
just, um, them as single actors alone.

269
00:17:05,007 --> 00:17:08,067
So it does give me quite a
bit of hope for the future.

270
00:17:08,067 --> 00:17:11,277
And of course, with that as
well comes healthier families.

271
00:17:11,997 --> 00:17:12,537
Um.

272
00:17:13,107 --> 00:17:16,227
This is something I, I really
hope for in, in my future.

273
00:17:16,227 --> 00:17:21,957
And I, I do think that there is a
lot of merit in taking advice from,

274
00:17:22,407 --> 00:17:24,627
uh, your partner of the opposite sex.

275
00:17:24,687 --> 00:17:26,787
Uh, in, in both ways.

276
00:17:26,787 --> 00:17:30,597
I think women really benefit
from a man's perspective, and I

277
00:17:30,597 --> 00:17:34,587
think men also can really, really
benefit from a woman's perspective.

278
00:17:35,187 --> 00:17:40,347
And I guess sort of like with,
unfortunately as we were talking

279
00:17:40,347 --> 00:17:46,347
before the show with, uh, the advent
of modern day feminism that silences

280
00:17:46,377 --> 00:17:49,887
the difference or the, the innate
differences between men and women,

281
00:17:49,887 --> 00:17:53,697
we kind of lose this art of coming
together and producing something even

282
00:17:53,697 --> 00:17:56,247
better than we could, uh, individually.

283
00:17:56,727 --> 00:17:59,097
But I think it's something that
shouldn't be lost because it is

284
00:17:59,097 --> 00:18:02,937
something so beautiful and very, very
powerful as well that I would really

285
00:18:02,937 --> 00:18:04,317
like to see in the Bitcoin space.

286
00:18:04,347 --> 00:18:11,757
And I do know on Twitter or XI have
seen a handful of accounts being run by.

287
00:18:12,552 --> 00:18:15,312
Partners like husbands and wives
or boyfriends and girlfriends in

288
00:18:15,312 --> 00:18:20,022
the Bitcoin space, um, which I
think is really quite beautiful.

289
00:18:20,022 --> 00:18:22,452
And I, I think it's awesome because
they're bringing in two different

290
00:18:22,452 --> 00:18:28,212
perspectives that can converge on
the same sort of opinion on, on

291
00:18:28,212 --> 00:18:32,412
the world, but bring very different
backgrounds and input to it.

292
00:18:33,822 --> 00:18:35,172
Anja: Yeah, and I agree.

293
00:18:35,217 --> 00:18:40,572
I, I remember, I think last year I posted
randomly a poll asking, um, Bitcoin a

294
00:18:40,572 --> 00:18:44,352
couples, I was like, do you guys argue
about money or do you just stack in peace?

295
00:18:44,352 --> 00:18:49,302
And Stack in peace was definitely the,
the one that was voted on by the majority.

296
00:18:49,302 --> 00:18:55,272
So, um, it is, yeah, it, again, it, that
speaks to the quality of money itself.

297
00:18:55,302 --> 00:18:59,172
The fact that removes that
conflict between couples.

298
00:18:59,892 --> 00:19:01,842
You know, there's a lot
to be said about that.

299
00:19:02,262 --> 00:19:05,142
Um, but I'm really curious to
know about, you know, your,

300
00:19:05,202 --> 00:19:06,792
uh, women in Bitcoin meetups.

301
00:19:06,792 --> 00:19:11,082
What, what prompted you to actually
start this, um, organization?

302
00:19:11,112 --> 00:19:14,232
El: So, it was a range of things
that prompted me to start it.

303
00:19:14,592 --> 00:19:20,832
Um, primarily it was my own experience
entering into the Bitcoin space.

304
00:19:21,402 --> 00:19:27,162
I have been met with some of the
most intelligent and fantastic

305
00:19:27,162 --> 00:19:31,482
people in the space, uh, especially
when it comes to in person meetups.

306
00:19:31,482 --> 00:19:33,372
So in Sydney there are a handful of them.

307
00:19:33,672 --> 00:19:38,562
Um, and then there is like the big
city meetup, which, uh, Ken Ghana, I

308
00:19:38,562 --> 00:19:44,112
think up to even 60, 60 guests every
month, which is, which is quite a lot.

309
00:19:44,832 --> 00:19:51,162
That being said, these spaces are
often populated primarily by men.

310
00:19:51,882 --> 00:19:55,422
And this is fine, like, as I've said
other times when I've addressed women

311
00:19:55,422 --> 00:19:58,542
in Bitcoin and why it's important
to have this women's only space.

312
00:19:59,337 --> 00:20:04,797
I don't see anything wrong with having a
space that is populated primarily by men.

313
00:20:05,457 --> 00:20:10,317
The only issue here is personal
feelings and experiences.

314
00:20:10,617 --> 00:20:15,867
As a young woman entering this space
without a background in any sort of

315
00:20:15,867 --> 00:20:19,077
finance, it's very, very intimidating.

316
00:20:19,767 --> 00:20:26,007
So when I first entered the space, I
was, I was quite shy and I was quite,

317
00:20:26,067 --> 00:20:29,997
um, meek and mild, and I did a lot of
listening, which was actually really

318
00:20:29,997 --> 00:20:34,647
good for me instead of just talking and
not actually taking any information in.

319
00:20:35,247 --> 00:20:40,677
Um, but when I got to the point where
I was still, still very much a newbie,

320
00:20:40,677 --> 00:20:46,017
but new enough where I wanted to have
these conversations, um, I found it

321
00:20:46,017 --> 00:20:51,447
difficult not because of the men,
just because of my own, um, my own

322
00:20:51,717 --> 00:20:54,687
varsity toward it and toward, um.

323
00:20:56,187 --> 00:20:59,847
Going up to a random man in a room
full of other men and talking to him

324
00:20:59,847 --> 00:21:01,887
about Bitcoin and my thoughts on it.

325
00:21:03,237 --> 00:21:09,207
Obviously I got over this and I do
that now, but that was probably the

326
00:21:09,207 --> 00:21:15,327
spring that really pushed me into
creating women in Bitcoin Sydney.

327
00:21:16,347 --> 00:21:22,797
Um, and this sentiment that is shared
throughout many of my attendees

328
00:21:22,797 --> 00:21:26,187
that it is, it is difficult to
break into this male dominated

329
00:21:26,187 --> 00:21:29,637
space, um, is, is very, very common.

330
00:21:30,177 --> 00:21:36,177
So when I started women in Bitcoin Sydney
a few months ago, I decided I want to

331
00:21:36,177 --> 00:21:41,907
start this as a really beginner, friendly
sort of experience or sort of group.

332
00:21:42,567 --> 00:21:45,342
Um, so I. I advertised it everywhere.

333
00:21:45,402 --> 00:21:48,102
I advertised it on Facebook groups.

334
00:21:48,102 --> 00:21:51,642
I advertised it on like women's
WhatsApp groups that I'm a part of.

335
00:21:51,702 --> 00:21:57,282
Um, Facebook Messenger groups,
Instagram, Twitter, uh, meetup.

336
00:21:57,552 --> 00:22:00,672
The, the app meetup.com, I
think is how it's called.

337
00:22:00,912 --> 00:22:03,882
I advertised it everywhere I
could, and I actually got some

338
00:22:03,882 --> 00:22:04,962
really, really great responses.

339
00:22:04,962 --> 00:22:09,732
And a lot of the women who attended
the first meetup were from, uh, my

340
00:22:09,732 --> 00:22:13,902
efforts of advertising it over a
broad range of, I guess, societies.

341
00:22:15,372 --> 00:22:20,292
Um, a problem that I've run into recently,
unfortunately, is that I have been blocked

342
00:22:20,442 --> 00:22:25,212
from many of these online spaces, which
is really sad because I think people

343
00:22:25,212 --> 00:22:29,502
see the word Bitcoin and they see, you
know, a women's Bitcoin group, and they

344
00:22:29,502 --> 00:22:32,382
somehow think it's predatory and a scam.

345
00:22:33,732 --> 00:22:37,392
It, it's really sad because clearly
it's neither predatory nor a scam.

346
00:22:38,157 --> 00:22:42,657
But that is something that I have to
grapple with and I'm going to have to, uh,

347
00:22:42,687 --> 00:22:45,687
rejig the way that I advertise my group.

348
00:22:46,437 --> 00:22:54,177
But yeah, for now, typically we get
maybe four to seven attendees per month.

349
00:22:54,297 --> 00:22:55,947
Like it's one meeting per month.

350
00:22:56,637 --> 00:23:01,587
Um, most of the time they are brand new
to Bitcoin or have just spent, you know,

351
00:23:01,587 --> 00:23:03,237
a little bit of time researching Bitcoin.

352
00:23:03,237 --> 00:23:08,097
So it's really exciting to get to go over
the very basic principles of Bitcoin.

353
00:23:08,547 --> 00:23:13,107
What is money, what is the problem
that we are facing, and how Bitcoin can

354
00:23:13,107 --> 00:23:17,907
liberate us from this or, or help us
on our way out from the fiat system.

355
00:23:18,927 --> 00:23:24,087
Uh, and I've had really, really good
feedback from it as well, uh, in person.

356
00:23:24,087 --> 00:23:27,957
And then also, uh, I issue an
anonymous survey to make sure I

357
00:23:27,957 --> 00:23:29,667
actually am on the right track.

358
00:23:30,147 --> 00:23:33,262
And I've, I've only had
glowing reviews, the women.

359
00:23:34,542 --> 00:23:40,722
Really emphasize how they enjoy this
as a soft launch into Bitcoin and

360
00:23:40,722 --> 00:23:47,982
a really like safe space to express
their concerns, their thoughts, their

361
00:23:47,982 --> 00:23:52,242
desires as women, um, in terms of
like what Bitcoin could offer them.

362
00:23:53,082 --> 00:24:01,092
And yes, this, this very well-rounded,
um, and shared narrative that a women's

363
00:24:01,092 --> 00:24:05,562
only space has been nothing but positive
for them because they feel so much less

364
00:24:05,562 --> 00:24:09,132
intimidated and they feel so much more
open to speaking about these things

365
00:24:09,132 --> 00:24:11,502
that we as women specifically face.

366
00:24:11,562 --> 00:24:16,932
So, you know, motherhood or,
um, the taking time off work

367
00:24:16,932 --> 00:24:20,982
for, for, for children or
superannuation after motherhood.

368
00:24:21,342 --> 00:24:26,202
O obviously a lot of it revolves around
these innate biological differences

369
00:24:26,202 --> 00:24:30,282
between men and women, which inform
our financial positions in life and

370
00:24:30,282 --> 00:24:32,352
also what we choose to do for work.

371
00:24:33,072 --> 00:24:38,262
And look, I'm sure at other Sydney Bitcoin
meetups, these sort of topics would be

372
00:24:38,262 --> 00:24:43,602
embraced with open arms, but in some
ways they can be quite sensitive topics.

373
00:24:43,872 --> 00:24:49,062
So it is very, very good to have that
individual space, that space that is,

374
00:24:49,752 --> 00:24:53,772
you know, designated for women and
women alone to be able to flesh this

375
00:24:53,772 --> 00:24:57,342
out and talk about it with other women
who probably have experienced the

376
00:24:57,342 --> 00:25:01,392
same thing, or me, for example, I'm
looking toward a very similar future.

377
00:25:02,472 --> 00:25:02,712
Yeah.

378
00:25:03,822 --> 00:25:04,152
Anja: Yeah.

379
00:25:04,152 --> 00:25:08,352
I, I love what, how you described that,
and I can certainly relate to a lot

380
00:25:08,352 --> 00:25:12,492
of what you said, because that was my
own experience coming into this space.

381
00:25:12,897 --> 00:25:16,077
And you know, from, from day
one, all I can say is the

382
00:25:16,077 --> 00:25:18,207
men have been so supportive.

383
00:25:18,207 --> 00:25:24,567
Like I've not had a single person in
our community make me feel dumb, make

384
00:25:24,567 --> 00:25:27,957
me feel like I should be intimidated.

385
00:25:28,227 --> 00:25:31,737
But even with that, like it's not really
about how they were making me feel.

386
00:25:31,737 --> 00:25:33,477
It's how I felt inside.

387
00:25:33,477 --> 00:25:36,867
And like I can relate to
you being meek and quiet.

388
00:25:36,867 --> 00:25:40,527
'cause I remember one of the first
meetups that I went to in Sydney

389
00:25:40,527 --> 00:25:45,327
was when Mark Moss, all people was
going through town, he had just

390
00:25:45,327 --> 00:25:47,697
ridden motorbikes up in K York.

391
00:25:47,697 --> 00:25:50,277
And he was like, I'm actually
flying through Sydney.

392
00:25:50,277 --> 00:25:52,167
You wanna do like an impromptu meetup?

393
00:25:52,737 --> 00:25:56,817
So JP pulled together
everyone last minute.

394
00:25:56,817 --> 00:25:59,727
It wasn't a standard monthly
meetup, it was like an out

395
00:25:59,727 --> 00:26:02,067
of the, out of the box one.

396
00:26:02,547 --> 00:26:04,947
And it drew quite a large crowd.

397
00:26:05,037 --> 00:26:10,857
Um, a lot of people that are really well
known globally came to that event because.

398
00:26:11,997 --> 00:26:13,287
It's Mark Moss, right?

399
00:26:13,287 --> 00:26:17,037
So, um, and I was such
a new, I had no idea.

400
00:26:17,067 --> 00:26:21,777
And I, I showed up there and Mark said
hi to jp and then he shook my hand.

401
00:26:21,957 --> 00:26:22,737
I'm just like, oh, hi.

402
00:26:22,737 --> 00:26:24,387
I am just, I'm just a regular person.

403
00:26:24,387 --> 00:26:26,157
He is like, yeah, that's fine.

404
00:26:26,277 --> 00:26:28,737
Like, that's what I'm
here for, kind of thing.

405
00:26:28,737 --> 00:26:30,177
But I, I had no idea.

406
00:26:30,207 --> 00:26:32,697
I was just like this celebrity status guy.

407
00:26:32,697 --> 00:26:35,067
I'm like, I'm not the organizer,
I'm just a normal person.

408
00:26:35,067 --> 00:26:39,087
He is like, I'm literally here
to say hi to everyone but you.

409
00:26:39,087 --> 00:26:40,917
You don't know what you don't know.

410
00:26:40,977 --> 00:26:46,527
And having that first step in
be like an easy point of entry.

411
00:26:46,947 --> 00:26:51,087
Says a lot because a lot of people
then, a lot of the women that come

412
00:26:51,087 --> 00:26:56,367
might come to women in Bitcoin meetup
first go on very easily to come to all

413
00:26:56,367 --> 00:27:01,107
the future combined meetups without a
problem because they understand that

414
00:27:01,107 --> 00:27:03,267
the community is extremely welcoming.

415
00:27:03,267 --> 00:27:06,687
You can ask dumb questions, no
one's going to make you feel stupid.

416
00:27:07,017 --> 00:27:10,197
But I do remember, and I still, I
still get that feeling sometimes.

417
00:27:10,557 --> 00:27:14,787
Just recently when I was in Palm
Cove, we went to bit devs and

418
00:27:14,787 --> 00:27:16,467
that's a highly technical meeting.

419
00:27:16,737 --> 00:27:22,737
I mean, I find cryptography interesting,
but I need like a basic bitch, a

420
00:27:22,737 --> 00:27:27,237
level understanding of it to get
into not something highly complex.

421
00:27:27,237 --> 00:27:31,707
And I remember remember sitting there
going, what are they talking about?

422
00:27:32,367 --> 00:27:33,507
No idea.

423
00:27:33,717 --> 00:27:38,397
It was highly technical and they were
clearly done a lot more research about

424
00:27:39,147 --> 00:27:41,457
all the Bitcoin improvement proposals.

425
00:27:42,267 --> 00:27:45,867
Ahead of the, the meeting so they
could ask all the good questions.

426
00:27:45,867 --> 00:27:49,437
And I was just there like beer
in the headlights, had no idea.

427
00:27:49,887 --> 00:27:52,767
Um, but I guess that's
all part of the journey.

428
00:27:52,767 --> 00:27:52,857
Yeah.

429
00:27:52,857 --> 00:27:54,832
Well I guess everyone's like somewhere

430
00:27:55,047 --> 00:27:55,317
El: Yeah.

431
00:27:55,317 --> 00:27:56,877
That, that is very, very true.

432
00:27:56,877 --> 00:28:00,717
And in saying that, I think a lot of
the people who are in the Bitcoin space

433
00:28:00,897 --> 00:28:07,527
have come from a background of, um,
computer science or traditional finance

434
00:28:07,587 --> 00:28:12,657
things that give you a little bit more
understanding, initial understanding

435
00:28:12,657 --> 00:28:17,817
and leeway to be able to communicate the
ideas that Bitcoin puts front and center.

436
00:28:18,537 --> 00:28:24,207
Uh, whereas women typically don't
come from these, uh, educational

437
00:28:24,237 --> 00:28:27,387
or um, working backgrounds.

438
00:28:28,287 --> 00:28:33,777
So I do think that in a way is also a
reason why a women in Bitcoin meet is

439
00:28:33,777 --> 00:28:39,687
good because you get women from careers
that are very, very different to.

440
00:28:40,122 --> 00:28:43,362
Perhaps more of the men
at the general meetups.

441
00:28:44,112 --> 00:28:48,702
Um, but I also make sure to really
express to the ladies who come along

442
00:28:48,702 --> 00:28:57,162
to my meetups that the general bitcoin
space is so welcoming to everyone,

443
00:28:57,462 --> 00:28:59,352
but of course to women as well.

444
00:28:59,712 --> 00:29:04,422
Like people are so open to
anyone new who wants to come in.

445
00:29:04,422 --> 00:29:08,802
Anyone who has what might be what,
you know, you as a newbie might

446
00:29:08,802 --> 00:29:10,362
think is a really stupid question.

447
00:29:10,782 --> 00:29:15,582
The Bitcoin space is so welcoming to
all types of people, no matter your

448
00:29:15,582 --> 00:29:17,442
background, no matter your understanding.

449
00:29:17,802 --> 00:29:23,082
And I really want to continue to tell
the women at my meetup, like this

450
00:29:23,082 --> 00:29:27,792
meetup exists as a soft launch into
the greater and wider bitcoin space.

451
00:29:28,332 --> 00:29:33,522
I, I love, like when people come back to
my meetup and uh, recurrent attendees,

452
00:29:34,002 --> 00:29:38,532
but you know, there is really some
merit in also involving yourself in.

453
00:29:39,462 --> 00:29:43,752
The, the wider Bitcoin space because
you get, you get other opinions

454
00:29:43,752 --> 00:29:47,292
and you get to meet other people
and expand your, expand your circle

455
00:29:47,292 --> 00:29:48,852
and you can network if you want.

456
00:29:49,572 --> 00:29:55,482
Uh, so I make sure to really
ingrain in understanding that these

457
00:29:55,482 --> 00:29:58,602
general Bitcoin meetups or the
Bitcoin community at large that is.

458
00:29:59,127 --> 00:30:01,947
Very male dominated is not
something to be scared of.

459
00:30:01,977 --> 00:30:05,637
And this space doesn't exist
because that is a bad community.

460
00:30:05,847 --> 00:30:10,017
This space exists because we have
typically different concerns and I

461
00:30:10,017 --> 00:30:15,237
want to be able to softly push women
if they're interested into the wider

462
00:30:15,237 --> 00:30:20,127
community so we can start to have open
discourse and open dialogue about the

463
00:30:20,127 --> 00:30:22,677
concerns that women primarily face with

464
00:30:23,307 --> 00:30:23,367
Anja: Bitcoin.

465
00:30:23,367 --> 00:30:23,787
I love it.

466
00:30:23,787 --> 00:30:27,687
And I also love that you do a survey
that is just such a nice touch and,

467
00:30:27,687 --> 00:30:29,577
and yeah, it just goes to show that.

468
00:30:30,137 --> 00:30:33,287
Human-centered approach
that women take to things.

469
00:30:33,287 --> 00:30:36,467
So I'll, I love that you do that
and I think we should implement

470
00:30:36,467 --> 00:30:38,267
that as well locally here as well.

471
00:30:38,267 --> 00:30:43,487
I'll speak to the organizers 'cause
um, we do get a lot of new visitors

472
00:30:43,487 --> 00:30:48,467
each month and the Bitcoin scene here
in Northern Rivers is really thriving.

473
00:30:48,527 --> 00:30:51,887
Um, we do have a very good
ratio of women to men.

474
00:30:51,887 --> 00:30:56,027
Like it's pretty much 50 50 and we
get at least 30 attendees each month.

475
00:30:56,567 --> 00:30:57,137
Yeah.

476
00:30:57,137 --> 00:30:58,337
Which is, which is great.

477
00:30:58,337 --> 00:31:03,317
Like we're growing too big for
our, um, venue that some of us

478
00:31:03,317 --> 00:31:05,837
now do what is called Lobby Con.

479
00:31:05,837 --> 00:31:09,887
So we just hang out in the lobby and
have a discussion while the rest of

480
00:31:09,887 --> 00:31:12,107
the people go to the main presentation.

481
00:31:12,407 --> 00:31:16,487
Um, I learned this terminology from
Bitcoiners who go to like Prague and

482
00:31:17,297 --> 00:31:20,052
Vegas and all the big events is a thing.

483
00:31:20,807 --> 00:31:27,726
Um, I wanted to know more about the
women that, um, come to these meetups.

484
00:31:28,416 --> 00:31:30,666
Uh, what is the sentiment?

485
00:31:31,116 --> 00:31:34,956
That they carry when they
first walk in on Bitcoin.

486
00:31:34,956 --> 00:31:36,456
Like what are their friends saying?

487
00:31:36,456 --> 00:31:37,986
What is their family saying?

488
00:31:37,986 --> 00:31:42,216
Where are we at with
Bitcoin adoption in Sydney?

489
00:31:42,366 --> 00:31:46,476
El: Oh, that, that's a very large
question, uh, for me to answer

490
00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:49,116
with my very small sample size.

491
00:31:49,176 --> 00:31:50,076
But I will try.

492
00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:55,866
So a lot of the women who come through,
firstly, a lot of them are, uh, I would

493
00:31:55,866 --> 00:31:59,676
say probably anywhere from 40 to 60.

494
00:31:59,856 --> 00:32:04,296
That's the typical age range that I'm
seeing, which did actually surprise me.

495
00:32:04,296 --> 00:32:11,106
I thought I would see more women
around my age in their mid to

496
00:32:11,436 --> 00:32:14,226
early or late twenties, just
in their twenties in general.

497
00:32:15,066 --> 00:32:22,326
But no, and I actually have only
had maybe two or three women

498
00:32:22,416 --> 00:32:25,776
in my age range actually show
up amongst all of the meetings.

499
00:32:26,046 --> 00:32:28,326
So that is something that surprised me.

500
00:32:28,536 --> 00:32:28,806
The.

501
00:32:29,931 --> 00:32:37,401
Average woman in Bitcoin goer is a woman
in her forties up to sixties who is

502
00:32:37,461 --> 00:32:43,101
either very curious about Bitcoin and has
already kind of done her due diligence

503
00:32:43,101 --> 00:32:49,971
in terms of understanding the perceived
risks of Bitcoin that people bring in.

504
00:32:50,451 --> 00:32:56,391
So I typically don't actually have to
kind of tease that out and really preach

505
00:32:56,391 --> 00:32:59,151
to them why Bitcoin is not a scam.

506
00:32:59,361 --> 00:33:04,041
They've usually already done that
work themselves, but surprisingly what

507
00:33:04,041 --> 00:33:12,561
a lot of them say is that they have
been the one out of their partnership.

508
00:33:12,561 --> 00:33:16,431
So between them and their husband, they've
been the one who is much more interested

509
00:33:16,431 --> 00:33:19,761
in Bitcoin and they've been having to try
to convince their husband to get on board.

510
00:33:20,556 --> 00:33:24,426
Which, which surprised me because as
we were discussing before, usually

511
00:33:24,426 --> 00:33:25,926
it's like the opposite way around.

512
00:33:25,926 --> 00:33:29,706
Usually it's like this crazy husband who's
trying to convince his wife, who thinks

513
00:33:29,706 --> 00:33:31,896
he's nuts to get on board with Bitcoin.

514
00:33:31,926 --> 00:33:35,556
But from my experience at the
women in Bitcoin meets, um, I

515
00:33:35,556 --> 00:33:41,856
guess it just attracts a different
type of woman to usual maybe.

516
00:33:42,486 --> 00:33:48,426
Um, and yeah, these women are
the, the leaders in terms of

517
00:33:48,576 --> 00:33:53,046
their household finances, and so
they're the ones really trying to

518
00:33:53,046 --> 00:33:54,906
orange pill their, their husbands.

519
00:33:55,236 --> 00:34:00,966
And from what I've heard so far, usually
the husbands are, are on board with it.

520
00:34:01,326 --> 00:34:06,576
Um, I know a lot of them have like set up
nodes and their husbands have helped, but

521
00:34:06,846 --> 00:34:10,746
maybe not really been all in on it, but
have helped because they support their

522
00:34:10,746 --> 00:34:15,876
wives and they see the massive payoffs
obviously, that they have incurred as a

523
00:34:15,876 --> 00:34:18,546
household, uh, by investing in bitcoin.

524
00:34:19,836 --> 00:34:24,426
Um, so yeah, the, the, the wives that
are coming tend to be the leaders of the

525
00:34:24,426 --> 00:34:29,916
household in terms of finance and in terms
of understanding Bitcoin and being the

526
00:34:30,726 --> 00:34:33,276
driver to adopting that as a household.

527
00:34:34,086 --> 00:34:43,746
Yeah, I think that probably covers what
I've seen, um, as in the trends of Bitcoin

528
00:34:43,746 --> 00:34:48,336
adoption in the women who have come to
my group, a lot of them are the leaders

529
00:34:48,546 --> 00:34:55,086
of the household finances as opposed
to being or as opposed to just, you

530
00:34:55,116 --> 00:35:00,186
know, handing it all off to the men in
the household to, to, to take care of.

531
00:35:00,726 --> 00:35:05,346
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533
00:35:07,086 --> 00:35:11,526
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534
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535
00:35:20,406 --> 00:35:20,646
Anja: Yeah.

536
00:35:20,646 --> 00:35:24,486
It's interesting because when
I worked for a utility company,

537
00:35:24,546 --> 00:35:28,896
um, a few years ago, like about a
decade ago now, um, in marketing.

538
00:35:30,171 --> 00:35:34,551
Women were our target audience because
even though they might not have been

539
00:35:34,551 --> 00:35:39,111
the breadwinner in their family home,
they were the one who managed finances.

540
00:35:39,681 --> 00:35:43,581
So I wonder if that's kind of also
the angle where they're coming from.

541
00:35:43,581 --> 00:35:47,631
Like that interesting
money, um, stems from that.

542
00:35:47,901 --> 00:35:51,471
It's interesting because yeah, so
far I've only met one woman who

543
00:35:51,471 --> 00:35:56,211
came to the Bitcoin meetup, um, in
Northern Rivers, and she drove down

544
00:35:56,211 --> 00:35:58,191
from Brisbane and that was her story.

545
00:35:58,191 --> 00:36:00,321
Like she was a libertarian.

546
00:36:01,011 --> 00:36:02,961
Uh, I, I love her story actually.

547
00:36:02,961 --> 00:36:07,371
She was a bit of a hero of ours when,
when she told us about her origin story.

548
00:36:07,701 --> 00:36:08,601
Yeah, libertarian.

549
00:36:08,601 --> 00:36:10,821
She studied political science naturally.

550
00:36:10,821 --> 00:36:15,291
You know, the university that she went to
didn't teach libertarian, so she went down

551
00:36:15,291 --> 00:36:19,251
the rabbit hole herself and she's like,
this is actually a really interesting

552
00:36:20,001 --> 00:36:22,491
political science like to to, to explore.

553
00:36:23,256 --> 00:36:26,976
And a worldview and she just
started learning more about it.

554
00:36:27,036 --> 00:36:29,646
And that's kind of how
she came into Bitcoin.

555
00:36:30,276 --> 00:36:35,496
And yeah, her partner, her husband
thought she was absolutely nuts.

556
00:36:35,496 --> 00:36:38,406
It wasn't until Bitcoin hit a
hundred thousand, he's like, okay,

557
00:36:38,886 --> 00:36:40,326
I think you're onto something.

558
00:36:41,496 --> 00:36:44,736
He's like, I think you're,
is like finally trusting her.

559
00:36:44,736 --> 00:36:46,296
It is like, let me look into this.

560
00:36:46,296 --> 00:36:47,616
It is like, okay, I see.

561
00:36:47,616 --> 00:36:48,546
I see it now.

562
00:36:48,571 --> 00:36:49,986
And, and I love that story.

563
00:36:49,986 --> 00:36:52,986
'cause usually, like you
said, it's, it's the inverse.

564
00:36:53,046 --> 00:36:56,976
Um, but yeah, I love that we're
seeing more and more of this.

565
00:36:57,426 --> 00:37:01,836
Um, are there partners on board yet
or are they still a bit skeptical?

566
00:37:01,896 --> 00:37:07,026
El: I think from what I've heard at least,
they are mostly on board and very similar

567
00:37:07,026 --> 00:37:08,856
to the story that you just told me now.

568
00:37:09,126 --> 00:37:12,981
It's usually in relation
to the price of Bitcoin.

569
00:37:13,771 --> 00:37:18,456
Like I said before, once they see
their household net worth increase.

570
00:37:18,576 --> 00:37:20,916
A hundred percent over two years.

571
00:37:21,306 --> 00:37:27,396
They, they tend to, um, at least
begin to want to understand it.

572
00:37:28,236 --> 00:37:34,116
So, um, at the very least,
they're kind of apathetic to it.

573
00:37:34,326 --> 00:37:38,856
But I think in most cases they really
have begun to get on board with,

574
00:37:39,036 --> 00:37:43,236
um, some of the women who attend
my meets and start to realize that,

575
00:37:43,806 --> 00:37:45,306
you know, their wife isn't crazy.

576
00:37:45,306 --> 00:37:48,126
She actually is just way ahead of
the curve and they should, they

577
00:37:48,126 --> 00:37:51,156
should, um, pick up the ball on that.

578
00:37:51,306 --> 00:37:52,116
Anja: It's interesting.

579
00:37:52,116 --> 00:37:54,186
I love hearing like adoption stories.

580
00:37:54,186 --> 00:37:58,626
Another thing that I've, I've noticed
and observed and heard quite a bit in

581
00:37:58,626 --> 00:38:04,146
Australia, especially the last five years,
is there's been a wave of accountants

582
00:38:04,146 --> 00:38:08,496
and tax accountants getting curious
about Bitcoin and it comes through their

583
00:38:08,496 --> 00:38:11,886
clients because they might have a clients
that think, oh, this guy's a bit nuts,

584
00:38:11,886 --> 00:38:13,986
you know, uh, getting into Bitcoin.

585
00:38:14,016 --> 00:38:16,386
But then year in year
they're seeing the returns.

586
00:38:16,386 --> 00:38:16,851
They're like, okay.

587
00:38:18,246 --> 00:38:19,386
This isn't going away.

588
00:38:19,386 --> 00:38:20,916
This thing keeps going up and down.

589
00:38:20,916 --> 00:38:25,446
It has four year cycles, but it just
keeps, you know, getting a high low

590
00:38:25,446 --> 00:38:27,636
each time and it keeps going up.

591
00:38:27,816 --> 00:38:30,846
So yes, it's volatile, but
there's something to it.

592
00:38:30,846 --> 00:38:33,366
It's not like the price
isn't completely random.

593
00:38:33,726 --> 00:38:37,776
Um, and, and yeah, they, they
end up getting through that way.

594
00:38:37,776 --> 00:38:41,646
And then you have a whole bunch of
like very orange peel tax accountants

595
00:38:42,216 --> 00:38:45,996
all around Australia and lawyers
and just regular accountants.

596
00:38:46,327 --> 00:38:50,497
So yeah, I would love to know from you
is like obviously you're a Gen Z and

597
00:38:50,497 --> 00:38:51,952
you organize women in Bitcoin meetups.

598
00:38:52,657 --> 00:38:56,257
Do you have different approaches
for how you explain and

599
00:38:56,257 --> 00:38:58,027
pitch Bitcoin to each group?

600
00:38:58,087 --> 00:38:59,287
El: Yes, yes.

601
00:38:59,287 --> 00:39:05,767
100 times, yes, I do, and it is absolutely
necessary if you want to be able to

602
00:39:05,827 --> 00:39:10,867
accurately convey a message and also not
lose someone's interest while doing that.

603
00:39:12,127 --> 00:39:16,657
So for women, I will slightly
adjust it depending on the

604
00:39:16,717 --> 00:39:19,987
cohort that I get that month.

605
00:39:20,737 --> 00:39:25,837
But typically I find the most effective
way to introduce it because these

606
00:39:25,837 --> 00:39:29,107
women are a bit older and they've had
time in the workforce, they've had

607
00:39:29,197 --> 00:39:32,917
time, um, saving, and they've had a
little bit more time than maybe my

608
00:39:32,917 --> 00:39:35,917
peers to understand the wider economy.

609
00:39:36,577 --> 00:39:42,727
Um, I find it the best to introduce
to them what the problem is, how it's

610
00:39:42,727 --> 00:39:46,807
going to get worse, because often
these women have children or will have

611
00:39:46,807 --> 00:39:51,547
children and are looking toward this
future, the, um, future world that

612
00:39:51,547 --> 00:39:52,807
their children are going to grow up in.

613
00:39:53,677 --> 00:39:57,007
So what the problem is, how
it's going to get worse and how

614
00:39:57,187 --> 00:39:59,167
Bitcoin is a solution to that.

615
00:39:59,647 --> 00:40:06,262
And this sort of architecture of
how I introduce people to Bitcoin

616
00:40:06,262 --> 00:40:09,127
as the solution to the problem is.

617
00:40:09,712 --> 00:40:12,082
Widely how I do it with everyone.

618
00:40:12,352 --> 00:40:16,102
It's just, um, on the more
minute scale, slightly different.

619
00:40:16,102 --> 00:40:21,832
So with the women in Bitcoin, I do
it quite generally because it's,

620
00:40:21,837 --> 00:40:24,382
it, it is all different women, but
typically they're older and they have

621
00:40:24,382 --> 00:40:26,272
a bit more of a wide understanding.

622
00:40:26,572 --> 00:40:31,672
But then when it comes to Gen Z, I
find it really crucial to approach

623
00:40:31,672 --> 00:40:40,282
it from an angle that is able to
understand and talk about and talk

624
00:40:40,342 --> 00:40:43,312
with their political grievances.

625
00:40:43,342 --> 00:40:48,112
Because that, I think is what is
really pushing Gen Zed, um, into

626
00:40:48,622 --> 00:40:50,062
different directions of change.

627
00:40:51,172 --> 00:40:55,912
If, you know, if you've kept up
with like my, my ex or my, um, my

628
00:40:55,912 --> 00:40:59,362
TikTok, which is where I publish
a lot of my political or Bitcoin

629
00:40:59,362 --> 00:41:02,582
commentary, you would know like I'm.

630
00:41:03,412 --> 00:41:08,812
All over this idea that Gen Z
is really leaning much more left

631
00:41:08,872 --> 00:41:11,992
these days, but it's not so simple.

632
00:41:12,022 --> 00:41:18,862
And actually in Gen Z we see the biggest,
um, divide of the sexes in terms of

633
00:41:19,072 --> 00:41:22,552
their political, uh, persuasions.

634
00:41:22,852 --> 00:41:26,422
So we see a lot of Gen Z men
are leaning much more toward

635
00:41:26,512 --> 00:41:31,072
radical right wing politics, or
sometimes independent as well.

636
00:41:31,072 --> 00:41:35,812
So you can think maybe libertarian,
whereas Gen Z women are leaning much more

637
00:41:35,812 --> 00:41:39,772
toward, um, uh, like leftist politics.

638
00:41:40,852 --> 00:41:45,352
So I think it is really important
to address the case for Bitcoin

639
00:41:45,412 --> 00:41:48,802
on a case by case basis, depending
on who you're talking to.

640
00:41:49,492 --> 00:41:57,922
And I think a really big, um,
hurdle in my way for introducing

641
00:41:57,922 --> 00:42:00,412
Bitcoin to my peers and.

642
00:42:00,952 --> 00:42:09,262
Often, mostly like Gen Z women is this
sway very strongly toward the left leftist

643
00:42:09,262 --> 00:42:11,692
politics and more socialist solutions.

644
00:42:12,772 --> 00:42:19,342
Bitcoin obviously is like perfection
of private property and like the

645
00:42:19,342 --> 00:42:22,192
free market, at least in the,
in the Bitcoin sphere itself.

646
00:42:22,672 --> 00:42:26,782
And so trying to convince someone who has
been preached to their whole educational

647
00:42:26,782 --> 00:42:31,432
career and then between their friend
group that this is actually evil private

648
00:42:31,432 --> 00:42:35,872
property should be abolished and the state
should be in control of the money supply.

649
00:42:36,322 --> 00:42:40,672
It's quite a difficult sell,
uh, if you're trying to offer

650
00:42:40,852 --> 00:42:45,592
Bitcoin to them as a solution for
well state involvement in money.

651
00:42:46,912 --> 00:42:53,722
So for me, I am still, um, I
guess fleshing out the exact

652
00:42:53,722 --> 00:42:56,782
road that is best to take when.

653
00:42:57,442 --> 00:43:01,492
Trying to orange pill or even just
introduce the idea of Bitcoin to these

654
00:43:01,492 --> 00:43:03,862
very leftist women of my generation.

655
00:43:04,492 --> 00:43:10,912
But I do think it, the easiest way to do
it, the most effective way to do it is

656
00:43:10,912 --> 00:43:15,982
to really focus on the pain point that
we are all admittedly feeling, which is

657
00:43:16,252 --> 00:43:21,232
the complete debasement of our currency,
the inflation that follows all of us.

658
00:43:21,232 --> 00:43:24,712
Whether you live in Sydney or whether
you live in, I don't know, broken

659
00:43:24,712 --> 00:43:29,962
Hill, all of us are experiencing this
pain, this cost of living crisis.

660
00:43:30,412 --> 00:43:36,712
And this is something that is a very
easy thing to focus on between groups

661
00:43:37,552 --> 00:43:39,592
because we, we, we do all feel it.

662
00:43:39,592 --> 00:43:42,562
The only difference is our
opinion, our opinions on how to

663
00:43:42,562 --> 00:43:43,972
change it or how to approach it.

664
00:43:44,902 --> 00:43:48,862
So with, you know, women in my
generation, my friends perhaps

665
00:43:48,862 --> 00:43:55,072
who are very left-leaning, I
try in a way to tell them, look.

666
00:43:55,447 --> 00:43:59,827
The reason we are where we are is
because state and money have been

667
00:43:59,827 --> 00:44:05,047
combined and because our currency
is just being completely, uh,

668
00:44:05,047 --> 00:44:06,667
obliterated in terms of value.

669
00:44:06,667 --> 00:44:11,107
And then briefly explain to them what
that means without them losing interest.

670
00:44:11,707 --> 00:44:18,007
Um, and explain why Bitcoin is a solution
to that and why it's really important

671
00:44:18,007 --> 00:44:23,557
that we focus on, uh, a money or a
narrative that is separate from the

672
00:44:23,557 --> 00:44:25,837
state in order to fix this problem.

673
00:44:25,837 --> 00:44:30,037
Because the state is actually what
has gotten us into this problem.

674
00:44:31,147 --> 00:44:34,147
It is, it is admittedly
very, very difficult.

675
00:44:34,147 --> 00:44:39,427
And unfortunately I do find that a
lot of my peers, given the nature of

676
00:44:39,427 --> 00:44:42,697
education they've had at university
and also just in high school, how

677
00:44:42,697 --> 00:44:46,417
it's very much through a Marxist lens.

678
00:44:46,927 --> 00:44:53,827
They're actually quite, um, against
even hearing a different narrative.

679
00:44:55,147 --> 00:44:59,647
If I am able to break through that
initial barrier of them not wanting to

680
00:44:59,647 --> 00:45:04,867
hear anything different to what they've
been told, then it does give me space to

681
00:45:05,407 --> 00:45:09,547
kind of maneuver in Bitcoin as a solution
to the problem that we're all feeling.

682
00:45:10,147 --> 00:45:13,657
But admittedly, it is very, very
difficult, especially because we

683
00:45:13,657 --> 00:45:16,477
are so divided as a generation.

684
00:45:17,437 --> 00:45:24,157
And I do think this can go in, broadly
speaking, one of two directions.

685
00:45:24,157 --> 00:45:31,777
I think perhaps we could see such division
and such struggle that it actually forces

686
00:45:31,777 --> 00:45:38,917
us to all examine these alternatives
to state control, um, namely Bitcoin.

687
00:45:39,067 --> 00:45:41,887
And we can all converge on
this, uh, because we can all

688
00:45:41,887 --> 00:45:43,237
agree that there is a problem.

689
00:45:43,297 --> 00:45:45,487
It's like I said before, it's
just how, how do we approach it?

690
00:45:45,487 --> 00:45:46,147
How do we fix it?

691
00:45:46,477 --> 00:45:49,477
And maybe with so much
division and so much pressure.

692
00:45:50,992 --> 00:45:56,482
We can all begin to understand that
Bitcoin is the solution or it could

693
00:45:56,482 --> 00:46:03,172
go in kind of the opposite direction,
where we end up with so much division

694
00:46:03,172 --> 00:46:07,552
that we are going to have a government
that is on one of two extremes.

695
00:46:07,552 --> 00:46:12,532
And I do think that it's more likely to
be on the extreme or the radical left.

696
00:46:13,042 --> 00:46:15,022
And I mean that's what
we are seeing already.

697
00:46:15,022 --> 00:46:17,302
We're seeing like restrictions on speech.

698
00:46:17,302 --> 00:46:23,092
We're seeing like fundamental human
rights, um, restrictions in Australia

699
00:46:23,092 --> 00:46:24,202
and all of the Western world.

700
00:46:24,442 --> 00:46:28,342
And with that comes state
control, more further state

701
00:46:28,342 --> 00:46:30,682
control over, uh, the economy.

702
00:46:31,222 --> 00:46:34,372
And with that, we are just
going to get poor and poorer.

703
00:46:34,432 --> 00:46:35,902
The divide is going to get worse.

704
00:46:35,932 --> 00:46:39,652
People are going to feel the pressure
even more and advocate for even more

705
00:46:39,652 --> 00:46:41,842
radical policy solutions to this.

706
00:46:42,532 --> 00:46:47,362
That is the way that I hope we
don't go down, but I do kind of see.

707
00:46:47,872 --> 00:46:51,622
Given the climate that we're in at
the moment, I do kind of see these as

708
00:46:51,622 --> 00:46:54,952
the two only really viable solutions.

709
00:46:54,952 --> 00:46:57,952
Either that there's so much pressure
we somehow managed to converge on

710
00:46:57,952 --> 00:47:02,152
Bitcoin, or there is so much pressure
that we continue to just go in two

711
00:47:02,182 --> 00:47:03,982
completely opposite directions.

712
00:47:04,792 --> 00:47:06,502
I've gone on a bit of a tangent about

713
00:47:06,712 --> 00:47:06,922
Anja: I love it.

714
00:47:06,922 --> 00:47:07,102
My

715
00:47:07,102 --> 00:47:08,362
El: thoughts on, um,

716
00:47:08,422 --> 00:47:08,842
Anja: yeah.

717
00:47:09,367 --> 00:47:11,072
El: Yeah, tangent.

718
00:47:11,072 --> 00:47:15,187
Well, I think it is like overall, like
what I was, I guess what I'm trying to get

719
00:47:15,397 --> 00:47:21,457
to with that is, um, it's crucial that we
address Bitcoin not only from a technical

720
00:47:21,457 --> 00:47:26,407
standpoint, but also from a standpoint
that is informed and understanding of

721
00:47:26,437 --> 00:47:31,627
the current, um, political, social,
and of course economic climate.

722
00:47:31,837 --> 00:47:35,317
Because in Bitcoin we are very, very
focused on the technicalities or

723
00:47:35,497 --> 00:47:39,337
even sometimes the philosophy of it,
but something a lot more palatable.

724
00:47:39,337 --> 00:47:45,247
I think for Gen Z would be focusing
on the immediate political climate,

725
00:47:45,757 --> 00:47:50,137
and that I think is probably the best
way to sell Gen Z, Bitcoin to Gen Z.

726
00:47:50,152 --> 00:47:50,392
Anja: Yeah.

727
00:47:51,232 --> 00:47:55,642
It's interesting, like, I mean,
yeah, I love what you said

728
00:47:55,702 --> 00:47:57,562
and it's such great insight.

729
00:47:57,982 --> 00:48:02,782
Um, I definitely know from some
other studies that I read when it

730
00:48:02,782 --> 00:48:07,882
comes to things like employment,
for example, for Gen Z, they're very

731
00:48:07,882 --> 00:48:12,802
interested in not just the, the money
that they're going to earn, but the

732
00:48:13,372 --> 00:48:17,212
social and corporate responsibility
that the company is engaged in.

733
00:48:17,692 --> 00:48:19,942
Um, that's something that's
very important to them.

734
00:48:19,942 --> 00:48:27,652
So part of me, um, likes that there's
this younger generation of, you know,

735
00:48:27,652 --> 00:48:30,142
people who are politically engaged.

736
00:48:30,202 --> 00:48:34,852
They do wanna know, um, they do care
about things that are beyond them,

737
00:48:34,852 --> 00:48:40,282
but it is also at the same time, very
disheartening to hear, and I've seen

738
00:48:40,282 --> 00:48:45,172
this as well, obs, observe, observe this
through my own personal experience, is

739
00:48:45,172 --> 00:48:50,077
people who just don't want to engage in
discourse with ideas of views that are.

740
00:48:50,842 --> 00:48:54,262
In contradiction or challenging
to, to what they've been

741
00:48:54,262 --> 00:48:56,062
taught or what they believe.

742
00:48:56,152 --> 00:49:01,372
Um, because yeah, to me this
is again, great feedback.

743
00:49:01,372 --> 00:49:05,572
If you are triggered by something, I'm the
kind of person I was like, I get curious

744
00:49:05,572 --> 00:49:07,192
about, I was like, that's interesting.

745
00:49:07,192 --> 00:49:10,327
This provoked it, something within me.

746
00:49:10,552 --> 00:49:11,242
I wonder why.

747
00:49:11,242 --> 00:49:12,952
Like, and I wanna know more about it.

748
00:49:13,042 --> 00:49:19,612
Um, but I do find that a lot of people
that are on the left tend to engage

749
00:49:19,642 --> 00:49:24,202
in discourse or, or if they do engage,
it get quite emotional quite quickly.

750
00:49:24,202 --> 00:49:27,022
And this is something that I've
observed with my family and friends.

751
00:49:27,052 --> 00:49:30,142
So again, sample size is very small.

752
00:49:30,142 --> 00:49:33,682
Um, but I think a lot of people
are saying that recently.

753
00:49:33,682 --> 00:49:37,522
And there was something that I
read that was just stuck in my mind

754
00:49:37,582 --> 00:49:39,982
and I don't know where I read it
could have just been on Twitter.

755
00:49:40,432 --> 00:49:45,082
Um, someone said that the right.

756
00:49:45,742 --> 00:49:51,502
Feel that the left is misguided and
the left feels that the right is evil.

757
00:49:51,982 --> 00:49:58,282
Um, which is interesting because I
think in the, in the recent years

758
00:49:58,282 --> 00:50:02,992
as well, we've noticed a lot of
violence coming from the left side.

759
00:50:02,992 --> 00:50:08,092
And there was the, you know, recent, uh,
police officer who, who made a statement

760
00:50:08,092 --> 00:50:13,312
that very much went against the mainstream
media narrative in terms of what the

761
00:50:13,312 --> 00:50:20,512
cause of the violence was in some recent
protests, um, that it was politically

762
00:50:20,512 --> 00:50:22,222
driven and what side it came from.

763
00:50:22,222 --> 00:50:27,352
So it's, it's just, yeah, I definitely
see a lot of division and, and as much

764
00:50:27,352 --> 00:50:31,762
as I want to talk about politics, I
always find myself kind of self-censoring

765
00:50:32,032 --> 00:50:37,762
because I'm afraid to trigger someone
who might have different views and I

766
00:50:37,762 --> 00:50:42,802
already have, um, just by talking about
Bitcoin, I tend to trigger people.

767
00:50:42,862 --> 00:50:43,462
Um.

768
00:50:44,512 --> 00:50:49,762
Not that I say anything deliberately
provocative, but even just the nature of

769
00:50:49,762 --> 00:50:55,192
talking about money, it can be triggering
for people what Bitcoin represents,

770
00:50:55,192 --> 00:50:56,842
you know, something disruptive.

771
00:50:57,262 --> 00:51:03,952
Um, something that goes against
the status quo that a system

772
00:51:03,952 --> 00:51:05,662
that they're familiar with.

773
00:51:07,612 --> 00:51:07,912
Yeah.

774
00:51:07,912 --> 00:51:13,402
So I, I can empathize with that, but
it does also take a toll on me because

775
00:51:13,402 --> 00:51:16,822
recently, for an example, there was
someone in my life who was like, no,

776
00:51:16,822 --> 00:51:18,322
I just don't wanna hear about Bitcoin.

777
00:51:18,562 --> 00:51:19,972
I'm a brick and mortar person.

778
00:51:19,972 --> 00:51:21,112
I don't care about it.

779
00:51:21,562 --> 00:51:22,522
Um, I was like, okay.

780
00:51:22,522 --> 00:51:25,132
So I just stopped talking about
Bitcoin with this person, and

781
00:51:25,372 --> 00:51:26,812
guess who brought it up yesterday?

782
00:51:26,812 --> 00:51:31,447
And when Bitcoin dipped to 99,000,
it was like, came across as a, a

783
00:51:31,452 --> 00:51:33,352
statement like with a sense of like.

784
00:51:33,772 --> 00:51:39,262
Smugness and like pride, like,
haha, like your asset just dipped.

785
00:51:39,352 --> 00:51:42,772
And I'm thinking in my head, like,
I was laughing with my friends other

786
00:51:43,012 --> 00:51:46,222
Bitcoiners over this dip were like,
haha, Bitcoin's on sale because

787
00:51:46,222 --> 00:51:47,962
that's what we psychopaths do.

788
00:51:47,962 --> 00:51:48,412
Right?

789
00:51:48,892 --> 00:51:52,672
But you know, I went away and
I wasn't angry at this person

790
00:51:52,672 --> 00:51:55,432
until later that I processed it.

791
00:51:55,432 --> 00:52:01,162
And then I was thinking, wait a minute,
if their house dropped overnight by

792
00:52:01,162 --> 00:52:07,042
20, 30%, I would be a horrible person
to come and rub that in their face.

793
00:52:07,342 --> 00:52:10,582
But they feel very
comfortable doing that to me.

794
00:52:10,882 --> 00:52:14,272
And it's just like, I haven't
done anything to this person.

795
00:52:14,272 --> 00:52:18,652
But Bitcoin triggers them so much that
they feel like they wanna like one up.

796
00:52:18,652 --> 00:52:19,072
Me.

797
00:52:19,342 --> 00:52:20,782
Like, come on, bro.

798
00:52:21,142 --> 00:52:22,432
Like, are you for real?

799
00:52:22,612 --> 00:52:23,542
That's my rant.

800
00:52:23,872 --> 00:52:25,522
You can, you can, you can take over.

801
00:52:25,522 --> 00:52:25,532
El: Over.

802
00:52:25,532 --> 00:52:26,092
No, that's all right.

803
00:52:26,092 --> 00:52:26,512
I think.

804
00:52:28,262 --> 00:52:30,217
I, I, um, I agree.

805
00:52:30,217 --> 00:52:35,917
I think it would be insanely rude
for you or me or anyone else to go

806
00:52:35,917 --> 00:52:40,147
and ridicule someone if they're,
um, if where they store their

807
00:52:40,147 --> 00:52:43,267
wealth dropped, you know, dropped.

808
00:52:43,477 --> 00:52:47,437
Well, anything, it would be, it would
be, it would be so rude to do that.

809
00:52:47,437 --> 00:52:53,887
So, yes, I, I, I do think that speaks
to the larger trend of once you're

810
00:52:53,887 --> 00:52:57,187
involved in this Bitcoin space and
everything that comes with it, politics

811
00:52:57,187 --> 00:53:02,287
included, and an understanding of
society and culture, um, that stems

812
00:53:02,287 --> 00:53:03,847
from an understanding of Bitcoin.

813
00:53:04,237 --> 00:53:07,567
I think it really does kind of
lift the wool from your eyes.

814
00:53:07,567 --> 00:53:12,727
And you can see through a lot of
these, um, a lot of the ways that

815
00:53:12,727 --> 00:53:18,367
people view the world now, that
just seems so wrong, um, since we're

816
00:53:18,397 --> 00:53:22,927
involved in Bitcoin and in a way it
kind of feels like we can see through.

817
00:53:23,647 --> 00:53:24,307
The bullshit.

818
00:53:24,487 --> 00:53:25,747
I hope I can say that word.

819
00:53:26,287 --> 00:53:26,647
Um,

820
00:53:26,647 --> 00:53:27,127
Anja: yes, I swear.

821
00:53:27,642 --> 00:53:30,427
El: And it feels like, okay,

822
00:53:30,427 --> 00:53:33,337
Anja: Michael Bitcoin, he loves the fbo.

823
00:53:35,707 --> 00:53:35,977
El: Yes.

824
00:53:35,977 --> 00:53:37,297
Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

825
00:53:37,507 --> 00:53:37,987
All right, good.

826
00:53:37,987 --> 00:53:39,577
I feel, um, justified them.

827
00:53:40,147 --> 00:53:46,927
Um, but Bitcoin kind of lifts the rose
tinted glasses off your eyes and it allows

828
00:53:46,927 --> 00:53:52,537
you to see the world in a lot more genuine
and also a lot more of a critical way.

829
00:53:52,567 --> 00:53:55,507
You know, we don't just accept these
things that we're told anymore.

830
00:53:55,537 --> 00:53:59,047
We actually go back to them
and, and try to understand

831
00:53:59,047 --> 00:54:00,667
them from this lens of Bitcoin.

832
00:54:01,447 --> 00:54:06,727
In saying that, I also wanted to
address, um, excuse me, your point

833
00:54:06,727 --> 00:54:10,447
about, um, the like political.

834
00:54:11,137 --> 00:54:17,467
Divide and how the left is viewed as
misguided and the right is viewed as

835
00:54:17,557 --> 00:54:24,127
as evil and how we have seen a lot
more, um, left or leftist political

836
00:54:24,127 --> 00:54:25,747
violence, especially in the us.

837
00:54:26,287 --> 00:54:32,707
I do think it is really, um, important
to weigh this up in a way that is

838
00:54:33,847 --> 00:54:38,977
fair and a bit more perhaps accurate
because the violence we are also

839
00:54:38,977 --> 00:54:44,197
seeing, especially when it comes
to, unfortunately in Australia,

840
00:54:44,827 --> 00:54:53,017
ideologically motivated, um, terror
plots, a lot of it is not just leftist.

841
00:54:53,017 --> 00:54:55,057
A lot of it is very, very far right.

842
00:54:55,267 --> 00:54:59,497
And that is what the, the message
that I'm trying to get across is that

843
00:55:00,517 --> 00:55:05,947
radicalization on either side is going to
be at the detriment of greater society.

844
00:55:06,937 --> 00:55:10,597
While, yes, as bitcoin, as a lot
of us do, share this like, oh, the

845
00:55:10,597 --> 00:55:16,897
lefties are, you know, crazy with their
8,000 genders and, um, and whatever

846
00:55:16,897 --> 00:55:18,397
else they decide to believe in.

847
00:55:18,847 --> 00:55:19,477
This is true.

848
00:55:19,477 --> 00:55:20,917
They are crazy in that sense.

849
00:55:21,307 --> 00:55:26,167
But I think it's crucial that we
don't ignore the radicalization

850
00:55:26,167 --> 00:55:30,667
on the other side, especially of
Gen Z, um, in Australia and the

851
00:55:30,667 --> 00:55:35,587
US and the greater Western world,
um, or the western world at large.

852
00:55:36,277 --> 00:55:41,467
Because by ignoring that, it allows
more people to silently fall into it.

853
00:55:42,247 --> 00:55:50,497
Which, like I said, like radical right
wing is just as bad as, well, almost just

854
00:55:50,497 --> 00:55:53,857
as bad, I would say as radical left wing.

855
00:55:54,577 --> 00:55:59,617
Um, the effect on the individual
and society is going to be terrible,

856
00:55:59,617 --> 00:56:05,167
and I think it's, it is very, very
crucial that we advocate against.

857
00:56:05,812 --> 00:56:10,852
Um, right and left radicalization
because they all lead down the same

858
00:56:10,852 --> 00:56:17,332
path, which is state control and, uh,
an impingement on personal freedoms.

859
00:56:18,232 --> 00:56:23,872
So, yes, the left is nuts and we
can agree that, you know, they,

860
00:56:24,772 --> 00:56:29,272
they deny biology and they deny a
widely accepted scientific fact.

861
00:56:30,112 --> 00:56:35,362
At the same time, we should still
acknowledge the fact that people

862
00:56:35,362 --> 00:56:39,142
going down this other pathway are
not going to balance things out.

863
00:56:39,142 --> 00:56:41,512
It's just going to widen

864
00:56:41,662 --> 00:56:41,872
Anja: right.

865
00:56:41,932 --> 00:56:42,442
El: The divide.

866
00:56:42,442 --> 00:56:46,102
And I think instead of going down these
traditional pathways, yeah, instead of

867
00:56:46,102 --> 00:56:49,852
going down these traditional pathways,
it's best to forge one of our own.

868
00:56:49,852 --> 00:56:57,772
And that's, uh, in things like, you
know, more freedom minded, um, political

869
00:56:57,772 --> 00:57:00,502
movements, uh, I mean, I don't wanna.

870
00:57:01,522 --> 00:57:05,212
You know, preach to anyone what
they absolutely have to believe.

871
00:57:05,392 --> 00:57:07,972
You're free to believe what you
want to believe, but I think the

872
00:57:07,972 --> 00:57:13,942
best thing for society is if we are
to value, um, personal freedoms,

873
00:57:13,942 --> 00:57:20,752
protect personal freedoms, separate
money and state and um, hold spending

874
00:57:20,812 --> 00:57:23,152
to account all of these things.

875
00:57:23,182 --> 00:57:27,862
Bitcoin wraps in a really, really nice
bow and kind of does for us, which is

876
00:57:27,862 --> 00:57:29,752
why I am really attracted to Bitcoin.

877
00:57:29,752 --> 00:57:33,532
And it's also why I think if people
understand what Bitcoin is, they

878
00:57:33,532 --> 00:57:35,752
all start to see the bigger picture.

879
00:57:35,902 --> 00:57:40,852
Whereas I came from a, you know,
understanding this politics side of it and

880
00:57:40,852 --> 00:57:42,742
then seeing how Bitcoin was the solution.

881
00:57:43,072 --> 00:57:45,772
If people understand Bitcoin,
they might start to see how the

882
00:57:45,772 --> 00:57:48,712
rest of it is a problem and how
Bitcoin is the solution to that.

883
00:57:51,397 --> 00:57:51,877
Anja: Yeah.

884
00:57:51,877 --> 00:57:55,957
And, and the other thing that I'm
also very interested in is like

885
00:57:55,957 --> 00:57:57,697
the whole concept of control.

886
00:57:57,697 --> 00:58:04,507
Like people naturally want to control
outcomes, um, or have predictable

887
00:58:04,507 --> 00:58:09,457
outcomes in, in as much as possible
because yeah, a lot of people can't

888
00:58:09,817 --> 00:58:13,987
cope with change and can't cope with
uncertainty, and that makes sense.

889
00:58:13,987 --> 00:58:15,787
It's like a survival mechanism.

890
00:58:16,327 --> 00:58:22,417
Um, so I can see why Bitcoin
would yeah, stir discomfort.

891
00:58:22,987 --> 00:58:27,997
Um, but then it is like, I also feel
like there is so much within your

892
00:58:27,997 --> 00:58:34,147
control and, and you do have a greater
level of self-control with Bitcoin.

893
00:58:34,627 --> 00:58:39,367
Um, so that's kind of a lens
for me that I look at things.

894
00:58:39,427 --> 00:58:46,057
Um, I would rather control my money
myself and have a predictable issue

895
00:58:46,057 --> 00:58:50,677
and schedule and a predictable
supply cap that cannot be changed.

896
00:58:51,202 --> 00:58:56,482
Over and above unelected officials
making decisions that impact my financial

897
00:58:56,482 --> 00:58:58,642
future, my children's financial future.

898
00:58:59,242 --> 00:59:03,562
And there's no incentives tying them
down to be responsible with that.

899
00:59:03,562 --> 00:59:08,272
And I don't get a say, um, at all,
and I don't even know what's happening

900
00:59:08,272 --> 00:59:13,702
until those decisions are entirely made
at their discretion, um, but impact

901
00:59:13,702 --> 00:59:16,192
me and everyone else on a daily basis.

902
00:59:16,252 --> 00:59:18,172
So, yeah, I don't know
where I was going with that.

903
00:59:18,172 --> 00:59:19,552
That was a little tangent.

904
00:59:20,542 --> 00:59:21,112
Um,

905
00:59:22,102 --> 00:59:25,342
El: yeah, no, I, I like, I like how
you, I like how you bring that up.

906
00:59:25,342 --> 00:59:29,962
I think a lot of people who gravitate
toward Bitcoin are very similar thinkers

907
00:59:30,172 --> 00:59:34,252
in terms of this sort of, uh, radical
self-responsibility over their money.

908
00:59:35,092 --> 00:59:40,582
Sadly not, not a, a large
portion of society is that way,

909
00:59:40,762 --> 00:59:42,652
at least not in my experience.

910
00:59:43,282 --> 00:59:45,592
A lot of people, especially in
my generation, where we have

911
00:59:45,592 --> 00:59:47,902
grown up, um, in this state that.

912
00:59:48,622 --> 00:59:51,532
You know, tends to take
care of everything for us.

913
00:59:51,652 --> 00:59:55,492
We can outsource that responsibility
and thus we haven't been able to

914
00:59:55,492 --> 00:59:57,922
practice it in our day to day.

915
00:59:58,822 --> 01:00:03,322
Uh, this is something like, this is
a personality trait that I see very

916
01:00:03,322 --> 01:00:08,062
strongly reflected in Bitcoin spaces
and also in my women and Bitcoin spaces.

917
01:00:08,302 --> 01:00:14,542
This idea that it is really, really
empowering to have direct control

918
01:00:14,542 --> 01:00:19,882
over your money and your own personal
finance, but being able to convey that

919
01:00:19,882 --> 01:00:23,602
message and why it's so important to
other people is also probably a large

920
01:00:23,782 --> 01:00:29,182
part of, um, being able to orange pill
people and wake people up to what's

921
01:00:29,182 --> 01:00:32,662
important, why it's important, and
why Bitcoin is all a part of this.

922
01:00:33,472 --> 01:00:40,102
Um, but yeah, I think definitely your,
uh, input about how much you value.

923
01:00:41,317 --> 01:00:46,267
Being able to take direct control o
over your money is something that is

924
01:00:46,267 --> 01:00:48,727
shared, um, throughout the Bitcoin space.

925
01:00:48,727 --> 01:00:49,387
Through and through.

926
01:00:50,347 --> 01:00:50,737
Anja: Yeah.

927
01:00:51,097 --> 01:00:54,667
And it's like, as a woman, you obviously
don't wanna be in a financially

928
01:00:54,667 --> 01:00:56,407
abusive relationship with your partner.

929
01:00:56,407 --> 01:01:01,507
You would never wanna be with someone
who controls the money without your

930
01:01:01,507 --> 01:01:07,057
input into it, without knowing how that
money's going to spend be spent, how

931
01:01:07,057 --> 01:01:09,307
much you have each month or each year.

932
01:01:09,367 --> 01:01:14,587
Like that would be considered a coercive
and financially abusive relationship.

933
01:01:15,067 --> 01:01:18,457
But we're in that relationship
with the state right now and

934
01:01:18,487 --> 01:01:20,077
why you're okay with that.

935
01:01:20,107 --> 01:01:22,717
Like those are some of the big questions.

936
01:01:22,717 --> 01:01:27,067
And when you, it's like having that
moment where those rose colored glasses

937
01:01:27,067 --> 01:01:31,597
come off can be a very grieving process.

938
01:01:31,597 --> 01:01:36,937
At the same time, there's a meme that
says, I miss the world before I knew

939
01:01:36,937 --> 01:01:39,367
too much about it, but at the same time.

940
01:01:39,982 --> 01:01:44,002
It is also taking a
hyperrealistic view of reality.

941
01:01:44,002 --> 01:01:49,012
And that is in itself, empowering the
fact that we do have an alternative.

942
01:01:49,012 --> 01:01:54,592
Like we are lucky that we have
Bitcoin as a, as a real alternative.

943
01:01:54,712 --> 01:01:58,402
If we didn't, then that whole
reality would be a lot more grim.

944
01:01:58,582 --> 01:01:59,872
It's a hard pill to swallow.

945
01:01:59,877 --> 01:01:59,927
Yeah.

946
01:01:59,927 --> 01:02:04,282
I completely, you know, even as a
young child, like I remember asking

947
01:02:04,282 --> 01:02:07,792
myself all these deep questions
like, well, what are we here for?

948
01:02:07,792 --> 01:02:09,352
What is the meaning of life?

949
01:02:09,922 --> 01:02:15,562
I never asked myself until I was like,
just last year, 30, 30, late thirties.

950
01:02:16,222 --> 01:02:18,652
It's like, who does my life belonged to?

951
01:02:19,612 --> 01:02:23,932
And you know, I always thought my
life belonged to me, my family,

952
01:02:23,932 --> 01:02:28,102
my community, my life belonged to
people who I wanted it to belong to.

953
01:02:28,102 --> 01:02:30,772
But that really sadly is not the case.

954
01:02:30,772 --> 01:02:32,632
My life belongs to the state.

955
01:02:32,692 --> 01:02:35,722
Financially speaking, it belongs.

956
01:02:36,442 --> 01:02:37,132
To the state.

957
01:02:38,062 --> 01:02:43,462
El: Yeah, I think, um, I think that's
a very good point that you bring up,

958
01:02:43,462 --> 01:02:45,232
but it, it doesn't have to be that way.

959
01:02:45,472 --> 01:02:51,172
And I think in being able to understand
what the problem is, exactly how I

960
01:02:51,232 --> 01:02:55,642
introduce Bitcoin to the women at
my meetups, being able to understand

961
01:02:55,642 --> 01:03:00,472
what the problem is, is it is, it
can be scary if you've never had to

962
01:03:00,472 --> 01:03:06,652
grapple with it before and it unlocks
1,000,001 different rabbit holes that

963
01:03:06,712 --> 01:03:11,422
you know, naturally you're gonna have
to spend lots of time, um, going down.

964
01:03:12,352 --> 01:03:15,772
But in that process, it
is incredibly freeing.

965
01:03:15,832 --> 01:03:22,252
It's incredibly liberating and it provides
you, because we have Bitcoin, it provides

966
01:03:22,252 --> 01:03:25,762
you with a direct and immediate solution.

967
01:03:26,092 --> 01:03:31,912
If we didn't have Bitcoin, it, it
would be a lot scarier of a world and

968
01:03:31,912 --> 01:03:35,602
I would be a lot more worried with our.

969
01:03:36,472 --> 01:03:42,052
Environment and our climate, um,
politically, socially, um, in our

970
01:03:42,112 --> 01:03:44,812
economy, I would be a lot more
worried if we didn't have Bitcoin.

971
01:03:45,022 --> 01:03:50,602
But thankfully Bitcoin is this escape
hatch that people, you know, generations

972
01:03:50,602 --> 01:03:54,262
before us would have wished for if
they could have even imagined it.

973
01:03:55,402 --> 01:04:00,862
So yes, it is a scary process, um,
understanding that you've been lied

974
01:04:00,862 --> 01:04:04,492
to and there are concerted efforts
that have kept you in the dark.

975
01:04:05,542 --> 01:04:10,012
In saying that once you do see the
light, it illuminates these solutions

976
01:04:10,012 --> 01:04:15,112
like Bitcoin that you can now learn
about and learn how to utilize in

977
01:04:15,112 --> 01:04:16,732
order to give yourself a freer future.

978
01:04:16,972 --> 01:04:17,752
Anja: Absolutely.

979
01:04:17,932 --> 01:04:18,622
Absolutely.

980
01:04:18,622 --> 01:04:19,942
And I love the way you said that.

981
01:04:19,942 --> 01:04:25,132
It does offer some hope after
my dark cream explanation

982
01:04:25,432 --> 01:04:27,712
of ownership of our lives.

983
01:04:28,612 --> 01:04:31,552
Um, but thank you so much for coming on.

984
01:04:31,642 --> 01:04:34,912
I would love to know, Elle,
how can people find you if they

985
01:04:34,912 --> 01:04:36,142
wanna get in touch with you?

986
01:04:36,232 --> 01:04:36,652
El: Of course.

987
01:04:36,652 --> 01:04:40,852
So I am active over a couple
social media platforms.

988
01:04:41,182 --> 01:04:48,202
Um, primarily the best way to find me,
uh, get in contact with me or follow

989
01:04:48,262 --> 01:04:54,532
what I am, um, putting out onto the
internet is going to be on x just Lco

990
01:04:54,532 --> 01:05:02,272
Freedom Fairy or on TikTok for more
of my like video content on political,

991
01:05:02,272 --> 01:05:03,832
social and Bitcoin commentary.

992
01:05:04,282 --> 01:05:08,572
That is just l the Freedom
Ferry, EL, the Freedom Ferry.

993
01:05:08,722 --> 01:05:09,022
Anja: Great.

994
01:05:09,022 --> 01:05:09,832
Thank you so much.

995
01:05:09,832 --> 01:05:14,782
And I'll drop those in the episode notes
as well for those who want to find it.

996
01:05:15,082 --> 01:05:18,412
Um, do you have any final thoughts
that you wanna share with the audience?

997
01:05:18,532 --> 01:05:19,792
El: Any final thoughts?

998
01:05:20,032 --> 01:05:24,532
Um, I mean, I feel like when I start
talking about Bitcoin, it's just like

999
01:05:25,072 --> 01:05:26,812
an itch that can never be scratched.

1000
01:05:26,812 --> 01:05:33,322
So I could, I could keep going forever,
but I think what I would like to say,

1001
01:05:33,322 --> 01:05:36,952
if there is anyone watching who hasn't
yet gotten into Bitcoin, but you're

1002
01:05:36,952 --> 01:05:40,672
curious, stay curious and keep digging.

1003
01:05:41,587 --> 01:05:45,967
As we said before, the more you dig, the
more you begin to understand the freer you

1004
01:05:45,967 --> 01:05:51,817
will become and the quicker you'll be able
to liberate yourself, spread the message.

1005
01:05:51,997 --> 01:05:57,367
Men, if you're in Sydney and you have
a wife or a daughter or a niece or

1006
01:05:57,367 --> 01:06:01,447
an aunt who is curious about Bitcoin
but doesn't know where to start,

1007
01:06:01,627 --> 01:06:06,037
feel free to send her in, uh, my
direction to women in Bitcoin, Sydney.

1008
01:06:06,727 --> 01:06:11,377
And yeah, I think my message
is stay curious and don't stop

1009
01:06:11,377 --> 01:06:14,767
learning just because you are facing
some very difficult information.

1010
01:06:14,857 --> 01:06:15,727
Anja: Absolutely.

1011
01:06:15,787 --> 01:06:17,437
Thank you so much for your time, El.

1012
01:06:17,497 --> 01:06:17,977
El: Thank you.

1013
01:06:18,522 --> 01:06:22,152
Outro: That's it for this week on
The Honest Money Show, a big shout

1014
01:06:22,152 --> 01:06:26,622
out again to shop bitcoin.com au
for making this episode possible.

1015
01:06:27,072 --> 01:06:31,242
Until next week, stay smart with
your money and stay decentralized.