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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome
to Equine Assisted World.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson,
New York Times best selling

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author of The Horse Boy, The Long
Ride Home, and The Healing Land.

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Before I jump in with today's
guest, I just want to say a huge

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thank you to you, our audience,
for helping to make this happen.

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I have a request.

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If you like what we do, please
like, subscribe, tell a friend.

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It really helps us get this work done.

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As you might know from my
books, I'm an autism dad.

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And over the last 20 years,
we've developed several

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equine assisted, neuroscience
backed certification programs.

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If you'd like to find out more
about them, go to newtrailslearning.

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com.

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So without further ado,
let's meet today's guest.

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Welcome back to Equine Assisted World.

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I've got Christine Duran, like Duran
Duran, but only one Duran, not two.

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That's fine.

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Who runs Triple H Ranch
in the Chicago area.

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And what's unique about this place
is it's not just a therapeutic

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equine place for humans.

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It's also a full on proper horse
rescue, like proper job horse rescue.

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I've been there a couple times and
it is always kind of educational to

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be reminded what levels of abuse and
neglect, even in today's America horses,

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animals, and I guess people still
undergo and so much of it's hidden.

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So somebody has to be
there in the front line to.

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Mitigate this, and there she is.

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She's sitting in front
of you, Christine Doran.

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And of course she's then rehabbing
these horses and giving them second

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lives as equine assisted partners.

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So it's, it's a wonderful,
wonderful ecosystem.

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And it's something that should
be an inspiration to us all.

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So Christine, thanks for coming on.

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How'd you get involved in this and why?

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Christine Doran: Well, thank
you so much for having me.

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You know, I actually got started with
this 20 years ago when I was in high

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school, and it just so happened that
everyone was talking about what they

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wanted to do with their lives that day.

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And I looked around and I was like.

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Well, I'm 16.

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I have no idea what I
wanna do with my life.

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So I have a very conversational
relationship with God.

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And I was driving home that day and
I was like, all right, why am I here?

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I love people, I love
animals, I love helping them.

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Like what's my purpose?

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And I'm like, if you could
just gimme a large sign.

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And before I said, amen, I looked
and I was like, well, we both

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know what I'm like, I'm gonna
need a large flashing sign.

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And so I said, amen.

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And the moment I said, amen.

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I was driving past a strip mall and while
I was at school that day, they put up

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this huge electronic billboard sign and
it's flashing, it's in all caps, and it

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says, call Good Samaritan's Boys Ranch.

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Two day exclamation point.

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And I was like, oh, thanks
for the flashing sign.

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So I pulled over 'cause it's pre cell
phone days, and I write the number on my

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hand and I go back home and I call and
I say, you know, I know I'm gonna sound

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like the crazy kid, but I really felt like
I, I meant to learn about your program.

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And it just so happened that the
executive director answered the

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phone and he spoke with me for an
hour and a half about how they use

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horses to help heal troubled youth.

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And I was like, okay, I know where
I'm going, but I was 16, so you

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can't jump into something like that.

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And so I thought the best thing that
I could possibly do was get into

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therapeutic writing and start helping out.

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Starting to see different disabilities.

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And I did, I went, you were

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Rupert Isaacson: already a horse girl.

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I take it.

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Christine Doran: I was, I was first put
on a horse when I was 18 months old.

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And two of my sisters, I'm,
I'm the youngest of 10.

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So I always say chaos does not exist.

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You know, life is an ice skating rink.

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Wear your skates to wear your shoes.

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Choice is yours, you know, like.

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Being the youngest of 10, you
just, you have to be able to

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adapt and pivot like no other.

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So, that I think has helped me
immensely being able to run Triple

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H because no day is the same.

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There's a, you know, you could be
planning to do all of this and you

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get an emergency call and your whole
day gets thrown out the window.

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So I I started volunteering with those.

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And then right after high school two
weeks after it I left and I moved

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to Madrid, Spain for three years

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Rupert Isaacson: as you do.

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That's very random.

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Or for, for a horsey girl from the middle.

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A little

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Christine Doran: Missouri girl to

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Rupert Isaacson: just jump and, and
also yeah, because it's one thing to

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go traveling in an English speaking
country, as you and I both know

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English speakers tend to be incredibly
lazy about having other languages.

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That's an incredibly unusual
decision to have made at that age.

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There must be a story behind it, please.

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Christine Doran: There is.

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So, my sister Jennifer has actually
lived in Spain for 30 years.

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Okay.

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And so she,

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Rupert Isaacson: again, Midwestern girl
from Missouri goes to live in Spain.

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Not quite so usual.

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That's quite so

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Christine Doran: usual, right?

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Us toand, we just don't
fall into the usual.

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Okay.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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Christine Doran: A skinny one.

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No.

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She, she went for a semester abroad
in college and fell in love with it.

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And then she got a job for a magazine
company where she sold articles

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like to do marketing articles.

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And she traveled all over the world.

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And so she's been to over 36 countries.

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She lived in eight different countries,
but Spain was her favorite country.

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So yeah, she settled there.

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And I understand why I love Spain.

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I absolutely, yeah.

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Rupert Isaacson: Hard not to.

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Yeah.

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Christine Doran: Yeah.

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It's, it's such a special place.

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And so, I became the assistant
director of an English academy out

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there where I taught English through

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Rupert Isaacson: You are
how old at this point?

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Christine Doran: I was, let's see.

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I went out there at 19.

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Yeah.

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Rupert Isaacson: How have you become,

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' Christine Doran: cause my
sister owned her own company.

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Rupert Isaacson: Ah,

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Christine Doran: and I went from
being a helper to quickly moving

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up to being the assistant director.

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You asked such good questions.

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It's family.

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Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Where you're sort of born into
the union but you have no vote.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Got it.

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Yeah.

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Christine Doran: So, yeah, I
lived with her for nine months and

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then she happened to have a house
about an hour outside the city.

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And Okay.

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I, I jumped at the
chance to live on my own.

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And I remember I was, one time I
was in Madrid and I was like, oh my

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gosh, what kind of life am I living?

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Like, how blessed am I?

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And I go to like, take in the air
and I end up coughing, not breathing.

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It was very air.

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And at that moment I was like.

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It's time to move out of the city.

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I'm gonna need some fresh air again.

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And

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one of the first things I did while I was
there was I looked up therapeutic centers

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that were in the area and I happened to
find this amazing woman named Maria Jose.

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And she allowed me to exchange
English lessons for her, teaching

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me how to run a therapeutic center.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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Christine Doran: And it
was very eye-opening to me.

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I had always had, when I was taught how to
be around horses, it was very cowboy up.

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You tell that horse what to do.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I was never taught the
proper way to really fit tack

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and just really make the horse.

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Important.

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And so it was very eye-opening
for me to go, whoa, there's

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a whole other world out here.

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And so I stayed with her for those two
and a half years that I was out in Juncos.

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I, I went like weekly and worked with her.

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And then I actually, after the first
year, went back to Missouri, realized

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Rupert Isaacson: One quick question.

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Yeah.

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Is Maria Jose still
operating outside Madrid?

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Christine Doran: I believe she is,
but I haven't spoken to her in years.

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Rupert Isaacson: What is
the name of her place?

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I'm, I'm just gonna feel a podcast

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Christine Doran: now that you say that
I'm gonna have to do some research.

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I'm gonna have to go back
into my emails and see what it

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Rupert Isaacson: wants.

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Okay.

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Would you, because this is clearly
someone I think we should talk to.

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Yeah,

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Christine Doran: absolutely.

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Rupert Isaacson: Maria was a outside,
what was the name of the town?

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Christine Doran: Kos.

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It's Y-U-N-C-O-S.

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Rupert Isaacson: Kos.

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Okay.

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While you are telling us the
rest going on, I'm just gonna

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do Yeah, but Google Okay.

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Christine Doran: Ahead.

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Go.

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That's great.

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So I I actually went back home and
I got there and I realized that

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Missouri was just too small for me.

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And I literally booked another ticket
back out to Spain and hopped back across

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the ocean again for another two years.

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And then I, I really felt a calling
to go back to school, start my own

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business, and I absolutely would've
stayed in Spain and done it.

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I just could not handle seeing my sister
running her own business that you would

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go to one place, they would tell you,
these are the rules, do this, this, and

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this, and then you go to the next place
and they're like, well, that's not it.

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There's like no
cohesiveness between places.

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And so I was like, I don't wanna lie,
hire a lawyer for every little thing

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that I have to do with a business.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And so I decided to
come back to the states.

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Since I felt like I had outgrown my
town in Missouri, I decided to set

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up shop in the Chicagoland area.

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Both of my parents are
originally from here.

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Okay.

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And so I thought, you know,
if I fail miserably, I've

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got people to fall back on.

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Thankfully I didn't.

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So I, I ended up going on a blind
date and meeting my husband and,

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you know, rest is history there.

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But we

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Rupert Isaacson: I've met him a few
times now and he has that slightly

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bewildered look of a man who met a
horsey girl and can't quite remember

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what life is actually like now.

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Yeah.

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His

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Christine Doran: mother
tells me, she says.

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I have no idea like how he actually
got with you because you are just

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everything opposite of what that man
like could have possibly ever dreamed of.

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She explains it so well.

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She says that I have never colored
inside the box in my entire life and

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Matt doesn't even know that a box exists
'cause he colors so far inside belongs.

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But opposites attract, right?

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Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Christine Doran: It works for us.

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So yeah, I moved back to the
states and I started going to

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university and I got an opportunity.

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Rupert Isaacson: What'd
you go to university to do?

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Christine Doran: Marketing.

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Okay.

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Of all things because I knew I

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Rupert Isaacson: wanted to.

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Andy, if you're gonna
go run a center though

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Christine Doran: Yeah.

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I figured I would need to know how to do
things if I was gonna have my own company.

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Yeah.

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And I had the opportunity.

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To work for a place called, excuse
me, the Disability Resource center.

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And I started out the executive
director, she has cerebral palsy

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and she needed someone to be
her assistant to be her hands.

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Mm-hmm.

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And so I gotta see the inner
workings of a 5 0 1 C3.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

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Mm-hmm.

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Christine Doran: And then the opportunity
a couple years later came up for me to be

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an advocate for people with disabilities.

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And I loved that job.

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I loved

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Rupert Isaacson: it when you said
the opportunity came up to be an

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advocate, what does that mean?

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Christine Doran: So they had a job
opening that they needed another

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advocate, and so I stepped away.

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Rupert Isaacson: And what does it
mean to be an advocate like that?

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Christine Doran: So that is where you are
like a social worker without the degree.

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You have people coming in that may need
housing, may need mental health services.

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Okay.

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There's a wide variety of you had
people coming in that, you know, were

00:11:49.745 --> 00:11:52.715
dealing with DCFS and they needed
to know how to better themselves

00:11:52.745 --> 00:11:54.035
that just didn't have the education.

00:11:54.305 --> 00:11:54.635
Rupert Isaacson: CFS

00:11:54.875 --> 00:11:55.175
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:11:55.235 --> 00:11:57.155
So that's like, department
of Family Services.

00:11:57.155 --> 00:12:00.875
So like when they come in, before
they take your kids, they usually

00:12:00.875 --> 00:12:04.415
try and keep you together and
you have to follow certain things

00:12:04.565 --> 00:12:05.945
in order to keep your children.

00:12:06.305 --> 00:12:09.005
And so a lot of times it
was lack of knowledge.

00:12:09.005 --> 00:12:12.395
People didn't have tools on how
to be a good parent, and that's

00:12:12.395 --> 00:12:14.075
stuff that we would help them with.

00:12:14.135 --> 00:12:18.155
And so it was a very
rewarding, rewarding job.

00:12:18.635 --> 00:12:22.085
But I found there were two things
that were really disheartening.

00:12:22.685 --> 00:12:24.185
There was no funding for people.

00:12:24.605 --> 00:12:24.695
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:12:25.145 --> 00:12:27.245
Christine Doran: And there were
no programs for mental health.

00:12:28.175 --> 00:12:30.425
And that started to weigh on me.

00:12:31.205 --> 00:12:31.565
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

00:12:32.555 --> 00:12:33.185
Christine Doran: So,

00:12:33.875 --> 00:12:35.975
Rupert Isaacson: yeah, because I guess
the, the majority of people in that.

00:12:37.354 --> 00:12:38.944
Family situation you'd be dealing with.

00:12:38.944 --> 00:12:41.375
There would've been so many
mental health issues there.

00:12:41.435 --> 00:12:41.704
Yeah.

00:12:41.810 --> 00:12:42.170
Christine Doran: A lot.

00:12:42.319 --> 00:12:42.609
Yeah.

00:12:42.635 --> 00:12:43.805
A lot of mental health.

00:12:43.864 --> 00:12:44.015
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:12:44.045 --> 00:12:46.604
Christine Doran: And it just
really began to weigh on me that

00:12:46.604 --> 00:12:47.625
I couldn't help these people.

00:12:47.805 --> 00:12:47.895
Mm-hmm.

00:12:47.895 --> 00:12:49.425
There was nowhere else to send them to.

00:12:49.530 --> 00:12:49.949
Mm-hmm.

00:12:50.055 --> 00:12:53.444
And I kept hearing a whisper,
it's time to start your nonprofit.

00:12:53.714 --> 00:12:54.104
Mm-hmm.

00:12:54.224 --> 00:12:55.064
And I kept going.

00:12:55.244 --> 00:12:58.305
Well, that's sweet, but I
really like a steady paycheck.

00:12:58.785 --> 00:12:59.324
So,

00:12:59.329 --> 00:12:59.349
yes.

00:12:59.369 --> 00:12:59.790
No kidding.

00:13:00.449 --> 00:13:00.974
No thanks.

00:13:01.635 --> 00:13:06.015
And God likes to knock me
hard since I'm so thick.

00:13:06.015 --> 00:13:06.405
Cutted.

00:13:06.854 --> 00:13:11.145
And in October of 2014, I
suffered a traumatic brain injury.

00:13:12.074 --> 00:13:18.294
I was riding one of my horses and
she loved to buck and I had been

00:13:18.294 --> 00:13:21.564
riding her for like an hour and a
half, and I had just gotten over

00:13:21.834 --> 00:13:25.734
influenza and had a really bad day
at work, and I was just gonna ride it

00:13:25.734 --> 00:13:32.304
out, thought I'd try some new t and
I was so weak that I couldn't even.

00:13:32.959 --> 00:13:37.310
Adjust myself when my saddle started
to slip that I started to go under

00:13:37.310 --> 00:13:41.150
her and she was very green broke.

00:13:41.150 --> 00:13:43.370
That if I would've gone under
her, she would've killed me.

00:13:43.430 --> 00:13:44.359
She would've trampled me.

00:13:44.959 --> 00:13:51.500
And so that flight or fight response
kicks in and I threw myself over her.

00:13:52.550 --> 00:13:58.520
And when I did that, I caused shaken baby
syndrome pretty much on myself, that my

00:13:58.520 --> 00:14:03.860
brain rattled around different parts of
my skull, and then my foot got stuck.

00:14:03.890 --> 00:14:08.390
My right foot got stuck in the stirrup,
and I knew if I didn't get it out by the

00:14:08.390 --> 00:14:11.270
time I landed, that I would be dragged.

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.260
And so I used those precious
moments to get my foot out and

00:14:15.260 --> 00:14:16.910
just took a really hard landing.

00:14:16.970 --> 00:14:17.375
And so, yeah.

00:14:17.975 --> 00:14:19.355
I was wearing a riding vest.

00:14:19.355 --> 00:14:23.855
I was wearing a helmet, but I suffered a
compression injury on my right shoulder

00:14:23.855 --> 00:14:25.715
and a compression injury to my right hip.

00:14:26.345 --> 00:14:31.595
And then my head did not hit
the ground, but the force of me

00:14:31.595 --> 00:14:34.145
throwing myself did the damage.

00:14:34.655 --> 00:14:40.325
And unfortunately the doctors
that I didn't tell me how serious

00:14:40.325 --> 00:14:42.125
it could be if I didn't lay low.

00:14:42.905 --> 00:14:43.745
And so

00:14:44.795 --> 00:14:45.305
Rupert Isaacson: I was Why do
you think they didn't do that?

00:14:46.395 --> 00:14:51.085
Christine Doran: I really think there
wasn't a a real knowledge with TDIs.

00:14:51.445 --> 00:14:54.835
It was really just like, oh, you've
gotta, yes, they said traumatic

00:14:54.835 --> 00:14:58.345
brain injury and not concussion,
but nothing was explained to me.

00:14:58.525 --> 00:14:59.905
No papers were given.

00:15:00.145 --> 00:15:00.640
There was just a, but

00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:01.885
Rupert Isaacson: they knew it
was more than a concussion.

00:15:02.275 --> 00:15:03.895
Christine Doran: They did know
it was more than a concussion.

00:15:04.375 --> 00:15:07.615
And I got told, well try
and get into a neurologist.

00:15:08.695 --> 00:15:12.805
They gave me a couple names and it
took me, you know, I think three or

00:15:12.805 --> 00:15:14.875
four weeks to get into a neurologist.

00:15:14.905 --> 00:15:15.025
Mm-hmm.

00:15:15.325 --> 00:15:19.785
And on my third week, my girlfriend
from college got married.

00:15:20.085 --> 00:15:23.925
And so I went out and I
drank like a fish, right.

00:15:23.925 --> 00:15:25.185
And danced the night away.

00:15:25.755 --> 00:15:30.495
And I remember getting into the car
that evening and telling my husband,

00:15:30.495 --> 00:15:32.535
I said, something's very wrong.

00:15:32.925 --> 00:15:34.005
It doesn't feel right.

00:15:34.845 --> 00:15:37.335
And he said, you're drunk, go to sleep.

00:15:38.655 --> 00:15:43.275
And what I didn't realize, realize is
that the first three weeks that you

00:15:43.275 --> 00:15:48.705
suffer a concussion, uhhuh, or a TB, I
don't think that it has to just be a TBI.

00:15:48.705 --> 00:15:51.315
You could just have, you know,
your whiplash concussion.

00:15:51.615 --> 00:15:55.905
Those first three weeks are incredibly,
incredibly important to not jostle

00:15:55.905 --> 00:15:58.035
your brain, to not have any alcohol.

00:15:58.335 --> 00:16:01.425
That you can make it severely worse,
which is what happened in my case.

00:16:01.450 --> 00:16:01.740
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:16:02.445 --> 00:16:05.475
Christine Doran: And so I
went from struggling to.

00:16:06.225 --> 00:16:07.305
Barely making it.

00:16:07.845 --> 00:16:08.115
I

00:16:08.295 --> 00:16:09.495
Rupert Isaacson: How were
you struggling before?

00:16:10.455 --> 00:16:14.895
Christine Doran: It was more of
really intense headaches, just

00:16:14.895 --> 00:16:16.485
feeling like I was a bit sluggish.

00:16:16.485 --> 00:16:18.075
Like if you have some brain fog,

00:16:18.405 --> 00:16:19.395
Rupert Isaacson: a bit under watery.

00:16:26.265 --> 00:16:31.980
Christine Doran: But not, I wasn't
in a state where I was like, oh,

00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:33.870
well something's severely wrong here.

00:16:33.870 --> 00:16:38.700
It was more like, oh, okay, I got a
little bit of whiplash, I'll be fine.

00:16:39.450 --> 00:16:42.030
It's just gonna take me a little
bit longer to do my work at work.

00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:44.550
I'll have to take breaks
with my bad headaches.

00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:49.470
And then after I went drinking and
dancing, I just jostled that brain so

00:16:49.470 --> 00:16:54.810
much that it was like I just crashed
downward where I went into work the

00:16:54.810 --> 00:16:59.880
next day and they ended up taking me
to the ER because my face was swollen.

00:17:00.510 --> 00:17:06.970
And, my boss asked me to do an Excel sheet
of just putting together like, I dunno,

00:17:06.970 --> 00:17:10.090
it was something about like school's
names and their contact information.

00:17:10.570 --> 00:17:13.270
And six hours later I
didn't have one name done.

00:17:14.020 --> 00:17:19.630
I could not figure out how to get what I
needed to from my head onto the computer.

00:17:20.320 --> 00:17:23.950
And when she came in and looked at
me, she immediately put me in a car.

00:17:24.125 --> 00:17:27.575
Rupert Isaacson: you danced
and you drank and then,

00:17:30.245 --> 00:17:30.905
Christine Doran: and then it all went to

00:17:30.905 --> 00:17:31.025
Rupert Isaacson: health.

00:17:31.025 --> 00:17:33.095
You face swelled and they
rushed you to hospital.

00:17:33.545 --> 00:17:33.995
Yeah.

00:17:34.385 --> 00:17:34.925
So what happened?

00:17:35.555 --> 00:17:38.565
Christine Doran: There was no
bleeding in my brain or anything.

00:17:38.805 --> 00:17:43.245
It simply was bruising in different
parts of my brain is what they said,

00:17:43.245 --> 00:17:46.185
and that's why they said it resembled
like the Shaken Baby syndrome.

00:17:46.565 --> 00:17:51.785
But it had huge lasting effects
that for a year I couldn't drive.

00:17:51.785 --> 00:17:51.815
Okay.

00:17:52.555 --> 00:17:58.285
My whole personality changed where
I think I'm a pretty kind person and

00:17:58.285 --> 00:17:59.935
you would not have wanted to know me.

00:18:00.415 --> 00:18:01.465
During that time.

00:18:01.465 --> 00:18:04.495
I, I had major anger issues.

00:18:04.855 --> 00:18:05.965
I was very impulsive.

00:18:05.965 --> 00:18:07.045
There was no filter.

00:18:07.135 --> 00:18:13.795
So I just said what I thought in that
moment I had such hatred towards people.

00:18:14.560 --> 00:18:16.660
Which I knew wasn't me.

00:18:17.140 --> 00:18:20.200
But to be honest, I couldn't
give two cares that it wasn't me.

00:18:20.590 --> 00:18:27.130
It was such a weird space to be in that
I would look at Matt as he walked out for

00:18:27.130 --> 00:18:30.940
work every day, and I'd be like, well,
if he dies in a car accident, oh well.

00:18:31.990 --> 00:18:36.580
And then I would have like 1% of
the time I would break down crying.

00:18:37.030 --> 00:18:42.460
Not that I actually felt love for
him, but I knew somewhere I did.

00:18:43.300 --> 00:18:46.870
And I would cry to him saying,
I think you're gonna leave me.

00:18:47.590 --> 00:18:48.220
And I don't.

00:18:48.220 --> 00:18:52.780
I was so open saying, I don't have
feelings for you right now, but I know

00:18:53.140 --> 00:18:58.030
what we had before my accident and I'm
afraid this might be the end for us.

00:18:58.690 --> 00:19:05.080
And so we went and we spoke to the
neurologist about it and he said.

00:19:05.800 --> 00:19:08.740
You know, this is gonna be the
biggest test of your guys' lives.

00:19:09.070 --> 00:19:13.690
That Matt, either you'll hold out
and one day she'll wake up and she'll

00:19:13.690 --> 00:19:17.860
remember she loves you again or
you'll leave before that happens.

00:19:18.250 --> 00:19:19.000
And it's really,

00:19:19.360 --> 00:19:19.990
Rupert Isaacson: did you
have kids at this point?

00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:21.250
Christine Doran: No, we did not.

00:19:21.340 --> 00:19:21.670
Rupert Isaacson: Lucky you.

00:19:21.670 --> 00:19:21.760
Yes.

00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:24.490
Christine Doran: Very, very fortunate.

00:19:24.520 --> 00:19:27.400
'cause you hear some of those stories
that people get these head injuries.

00:19:27.430 --> 00:19:27.460
Mm.

00:19:28.030 --> 00:19:29.590
And then they become different people.

00:19:29.590 --> 00:19:36.220
And I did, I was, I was so hateful and
had so many horrible thoughts in my mind

00:19:36.460 --> 00:19:41.920
consistently that I started listening
to Christian music because I thought,

00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:46.390
it's pretty hard to say really horrible
things if you have Jesus love and

00:19:46.390 --> 00:19:49.090
music playing in your ear constantly.

00:19:49.360 --> 00:19:50.920
And I hated that music.

00:19:51.070 --> 00:19:54.880
I was just like, it made
me cranky to listen to it.

00:19:54.970 --> 00:19:58.900
But I could remember that that wasn't,
I didn't listen to Christian music

00:19:58.900 --> 00:20:00.550
beforehand, but I had nothing against it.

00:20:00.910 --> 00:20:02.710
But I was trying to come up with ways.

00:20:02.740 --> 00:20:03.790
'cause no one had any.

00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.210
Insight for me of how I
could get through this.

00:20:07.360 --> 00:20:09.940
Rupert Isaacson: What was interesting
though is that despite the fact that

00:20:09.940 --> 00:20:13.870
you were, you said you didn't give
a shit, you clearly did give a shit

00:20:13.870 --> 00:20:18.040
about not giving a shit otherwise you
wouldn't have looked for strategies.

00:20:18.040 --> 00:20:18.430
So for

00:20:18.430 --> 00:20:18.970
Christine Doran: strategies,

00:20:19.060 --> 00:20:22.900
Rupert Isaacson: what,
where was, can you describe

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.060
that, that little part, that 1%
part must have been more active than

00:20:28.060 --> 00:20:30.670
just occasionally where you wouldn't
have resorted to these strategies.

00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:30.940
Right.

00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:32.380
Must have been there

00:20:32.380 --> 00:20:32.530
Christine Doran: back.

00:20:32.530 --> 00:20:34.780
It must have been there more
than I thought, because I

00:20:34.780 --> 00:20:36.220
wanted my old life back.

00:20:36.345 --> 00:20:38.620
I was not happy with what I had.

00:20:39.130 --> 00:20:39.700
I may have been.

00:20:39.700 --> 00:20:39.820
Were you

00:20:39.820 --> 00:20:40.185
Rupert Isaacson: able to work?

00:20:40.185 --> 00:20:40.390
I was not.

00:20:42.105 --> 00:20:42.395
Okay.

00:20:43.235 --> 00:20:43.755
Christine Doran: I was not.

00:20:44.095 --> 00:20:48.550
And, and the, the worst part was, is
that people kept saying, you know,

00:20:48.550 --> 00:20:50.170
you can't play this card forever.

00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:51.580
You need to go back to work.

00:20:52.210 --> 00:20:52.300
Right.

00:20:52.300 --> 00:20:55.840
And so it was like four or five months
in, I tried going back to work because

00:20:55.840 --> 00:20:59.980
I was feeling such intense pressure,
but I literally had to relearn how

00:20:59.980 --> 00:21:01.900
to touch my fingertips to my thumbs.

00:21:01.900 --> 00:21:03.190
I lost that coordination.

00:21:03.665 --> 00:21:03.955
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:21:04.255 --> 00:21:07.810
Christine Doran: And, and to
try and explain to someone when

00:21:07.810 --> 00:21:09.430
I looked just like I do now.

00:21:09.910 --> 00:21:10.720
Rupert Isaacson: Mm mm

00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:14.110
Christine Doran: But on the
inside I felt so broken.

00:21:14.710 --> 00:21:14.740
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.

00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.820
Christine Doran: And no one gave me any
space to heal there because I looked fine.

00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:24.880
Rupert Isaacson: Have you subsequently
done much research into TBIs?

00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:29.590
For example, I had an ex-girlfriend
whose son fell down the stairs and

00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.820
he became kind of semi criminal.

00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:37.620
You hear about other people having
TBIs who wake up and can suddenly like

00:21:37.620 --> 00:21:39.930
play the grand piano or speak French.

00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:40.230
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:46.950
Rupert Isaacson: But why do you think
it is that we hear more stories about

00:21:46.950 --> 00:21:51.960
it bringing out a massively demonic
or negative side of the human psyche?

00:21:52.260 --> 00:21:53.520
Why is that, do you think?

00:21:54.510 --> 00:21:54.900
Why not?

00:21:55.045 --> 00:21:55.345
Why not?

00:21:55.410 --> 00:21:55.770
Why not?

00:21:55.770 --> 00:21:58.260
In infinitude of, of different responses.

00:21:58.485 --> 00:21:58.705
My

00:21:58.710 --> 00:22:00.870
Christine Doran: my thought, and I
don't know if I'm right or not, but

00:22:00.870 --> 00:22:04.740
my thought is, is that we love to
push so much down where we try and

00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:08.700
mold ourselves into something that
is perceived as what people want.

00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:09.390
Mm.

00:22:09.390 --> 00:22:12.630
That when you hit your head,
that all goes out the window.

00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:14.400
That's not an importance anymore.

00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.080
That there's nothing
holding any of that back.

00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:18.990
That it almost just kind of, I don't know.

00:22:18.990 --> 00:22:20.640
I felt like it just bubbled out of me.

00:22:21.780 --> 00:22:22.440
Rupert Isaacson: I mean Right.

00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:27.240
But, but you would think that
as much as that, as much as

00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.130
we repress, we express, right?

00:22:29.190 --> 00:22:29.250
Yeah.

00:22:29.250 --> 00:22:33.480
So that there's also a lot of,
and, and not everything we repress

00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.420
is, I'm just curious about this.

00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:39.780
Not everything we repress is negative.

00:22:39.810 --> 00:22:44.970
Like sometimes we repress immensely
joyful sides of ourselves, or immensely

00:22:44.970 --> 00:22:46.800
spontaneous sides of ourselves.

00:22:47.370 --> 00:22:50.280
Why do you think more of
those things didn't come out?

00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.770
Christine Doran: Yeah, it's
a really good question.

00:22:53.850 --> 00:22:56.610
I'm truly, I'm gonna have
to really think about this.

00:22:56.610 --> 00:22:57.750
Rupert Isaacson: It's
intriguing, isn't it?

00:22:57.810 --> 00:23:01.560
Christine Doran: It's really intriguing
of why I had such a negative side

00:23:01.950 --> 00:23:07.080
come out of me when and, and that
you hear so many more negative

00:23:07.080 --> 00:23:08.940
sides come out of people when they,

00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:10.800
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I'm actually
doing a little Google here.

00:23:10.800 --> 00:23:12.810
Why do TBIs?

00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:17.880
Because, and the neurologist
didn't have anything?

00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:18.240
Christine Doran: No.

00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.520
Unfortunately my neurologist
was so old school.

00:23:20.520 --> 00:23:22.800
I wish I would've been in my right mind.

00:23:22.950 --> 00:23:23.280
Right.

00:23:23.610 --> 00:23:24.780
That I would've gone.

00:23:24.990 --> 00:23:26.880
We have world renowned doctors here.

00:23:26.970 --> 00:23:27.240
Mm-hmm.

00:23:27.245 --> 00:23:27.535
Yeah.

00:23:27.840 --> 00:23:29.220
And I didn't go to one of those.

00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:34.320
My, you know, the local hospital
sent me to a local guy here who,

00:23:34.950 --> 00:23:38.280
once I had actually started to heal
a few years later, I had heard like,

00:23:38.310 --> 00:23:39.570
oh my gosh, he's so old school.

00:23:39.570 --> 00:23:42.810
He didn't, I wasn't putting any
type of therapies for my head.

00:23:43.280 --> 00:23:43.760
Nothing.

00:23:43.790 --> 00:23:46.280
I was, I was even told
not to take ibuprofen.

00:23:46.670 --> 00:23:50.630
And the headaches that I had
were worse than childbirth.

00:23:50.930 --> 00:23:54.950
Like, they were so intense and they
were never ending for me that I used

00:23:54.950 --> 00:24:00.260
to just sit with like an ice pack and a
tennis ball behind the back of my head

00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:02.420
because the pressure was so immense.

00:24:02.840 --> 00:24:05.840
And, and here I was told
not to take anything.

00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:10.310
And so I was just listening
because I remember going to him and

00:24:10.310 --> 00:24:12.110
repeating myself every single time.

00:24:12.110 --> 00:24:15.350
And I would take a recorder with
me and I would take a notebook

00:24:15.350 --> 00:24:20.030
with me and saying like, I, I
can't function as a human being.

00:24:20.090 --> 00:24:20.840
What do I do?

00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:24.080
And there was never, it
was just, well, time.

00:24:24.350 --> 00:24:25.250
You just need time.

00:24:26.330 --> 00:24:27.200
That's all you can do.

00:24:28.600 --> 00:24:28.820
Rupert Isaacson: I'm,

00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.215
Christine Doran: I'm And
then finally, yeah, go

00:24:30.215 --> 00:24:30.395
Rupert Isaacson: ahead.

00:24:30.665 --> 00:24:32.645
You know, keep going and
then I'm gonna read what

00:24:32.645 --> 00:24:34.775
Christine Doran: No, they ended
up kicking me out of like my

00:24:34.775 --> 00:24:36.575
physical therapy because Okay.

00:24:36.575 --> 00:24:41.345
The shoulder and the hip were healing,
but I had so many visual issues from it

00:24:41.345 --> 00:24:44.405
that the floors would move up and down.

00:24:44.405 --> 00:24:44.435
Okay.

00:24:44.675 --> 00:24:48.635
The walls would come back and forth, that
they actually kicked me out because I

00:24:48.635 --> 00:24:53.505
wasn't having enough improvement that the
insurance wouldn't continue to pay for it.

00:24:54.315 --> 00:24:54.345
Okay.

00:24:54.405 --> 00:24:57.975
And so instead of them sending me
that, now I know that there's specific

00:24:57.975 --> 00:25:00.675
therapies for traumatic brain injuries.

00:25:00.675 --> 00:25:04.965
Like my mother suffered a traumatic
brain injury last year, and they

00:25:04.965 --> 00:25:07.905
had her in therapy specifically
for that, for months on end.

00:25:08.565 --> 00:25:10.635
I was never given any of those options.

00:25:11.175 --> 00:25:11.895
And so

00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.300
Rupert Isaacson: was that because of your
insurance company or just 'cause less

00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:15.140
Christine Doran: back then?

00:25:15.140 --> 00:25:17.745
No, I had, I had the most amazing
insurance that you could ever

00:25:17.745 --> 00:25:19.935
ask for when I worked for DRC.

00:25:20.355 --> 00:25:25.935
I truly think that it wasn't until a
few years after my TBI, that the NFL

00:25:25.935 --> 00:25:27.795
really started talking about TBIs.

00:25:27.915 --> 00:25:33.165
Ah, and I think that was the big shift
is that suddenly it took a, a forefront

00:25:33.975 --> 00:25:39.825
that they were seeing big famous people
having these different things happening

00:25:39.825 --> 00:25:41.445
with their head from concussions.

00:25:41.895 --> 00:25:44.625
And it started to be a
spotlight and things started

00:25:44.625 --> 00:25:45.795
to change within the system,

00:25:46.065 --> 00:25:48.715
Rupert Isaacson: alongside
the really negative behaviors.

00:25:48.715 --> 00:25:49.795
Were you ever violent?

00:25:50.845 --> 00:25:52.135
Christine Doran: No, I wasn't violent.

00:25:52.225 --> 00:25:54.175
I just thought horrible things in my head.

00:25:54.235 --> 00:25:58.855
Rupert Isaacson: And then
the question then, why do you

00:25:58.855 --> 00:26:00.115
think you weren't violent?

00:26:00.115 --> 00:26:04.195
Because some people do get violent,
and then the second thing is

00:26:04.275 --> 00:26:09.195
were you did, did you
have as much depression?

00:26:10.365 --> 00:26:11.925
Or were you not depressed?

00:26:11.925 --> 00:26:13.665
Were you actually more stimulated?

00:26:14.205 --> 00:26:15.855
Christine Doran: No, I
was severely depressed.

00:26:15.855 --> 00:26:15.885
Okay.

00:26:15.915 --> 00:26:19.815
My anxiety to this day, I still
have to work on my anxiety.

00:26:20.175 --> 00:26:20.205
Okay.

00:26:20.205 --> 00:26:23.495
I did a lot of therapy for
it to be able to control it.

00:26:24.065 --> 00:26:26.855
And I truly think my
saving grace was horses,

00:26:27.605 --> 00:26:28.505
Rupert Isaacson: almost certainly.

00:26:28.505 --> 00:26:28.835
Right.

00:26:29.435 --> 00:26:29.735
Christine Doran: That's most

00:26:29.735 --> 00:26:31.530
Rupert Isaacson: mind you, not
that they don't shake your brain.

00:26:32.060 --> 00:26:32.410
Christine Doran: Right.

00:26:32.615 --> 00:26:34.895
I mean, she, she caused it,
but really it was my fault.

00:26:34.895 --> 00:26:36.635
I shouldn't have even gotten on.

00:26:36.965 --> 00:26:41.045
And it really was a turning point for
me because I couldn't drive for a year.

00:26:41.045 --> 00:26:43.145
I didn't ride a horse
for at least nine months.

00:26:43.145 --> 00:26:44.735
I just didn't have the
coordination for it.

00:26:44.740 --> 00:26:44.830
Mm-hmm.

00:26:45.335 --> 00:26:51.095
And so I started really researching
groundwork and how to have a relationship

00:26:51.095 --> 00:26:55.055
with a horse instead of me telling
the horse what to do, how to have

00:26:55.055 --> 00:26:56.885
that true partnership with them.

00:26:57.425 --> 00:26:59.705
And that was a game changer for me.

00:26:59.975 --> 00:27:04.685
I felt like that I had
had so many moments where.

00:27:06.185 --> 00:27:09.155
I got my horse to suddenly listen
to me without even touching

00:27:09.155 --> 00:27:11.135
her, just using vocal cues.

00:27:11.165 --> 00:27:15.635
And it was this eye-opening experience
for me that this horse, that when I would

00:27:15.635 --> 00:27:17.645
get on her, would just run and not stop.

00:27:17.945 --> 00:27:22.565
Suddenly I could get her to turn and turn
different directions just by a vocal cue.

00:27:23.045 --> 00:27:24.815
And I was like, I'm onto something now.

00:27:25.055 --> 00:27:26.315
This is what I wanna do.

00:27:26.765 --> 00:27:31.805
And it was really the beginning change
for Triple H that I ended up starting.

00:27:31.805 --> 00:27:39.505
My, my injury was in 2014, and
then 2015 I started Triple H Tran.

00:27:39.865 --> 00:27:39.895
Okay.

00:27:40.555 --> 00:27:44.605
And that was the beginning of it, that
I could no longer do my actual job.

00:27:45.565 --> 00:27:49.315
And God forced me into Triple H.

00:27:49.765 --> 00:27:54.055
And one thing that my neurologist said
was, be outside as much as possible.

00:27:54.805 --> 00:27:56.605
Be with nature as much as possible.

00:27:56.610 --> 00:27:56.770
And

00:27:57.085 --> 00:27:57.890
Rupert Isaacson: and why did he say that?

00:27:58.105 --> 00:27:58.945
Did he give you a reason?

00:27:59.125 --> 00:28:01.225
Christine Doran: He just told
me that the mind does well being

00:28:01.225 --> 00:28:04.285
grounded and, you know, I get it,
like I do reiki and everything.

00:28:04.285 --> 00:28:08.665
When you're grounded, you just do so much
better that I, I think he had something

00:28:08.665 --> 00:28:13.525
to it of not having that overstimulation
of the lights, everything going on.

00:28:13.885 --> 00:28:18.265
There has to be something to it in that
way of, I couldn't go into a grocery

00:28:18.265 --> 00:28:23.995
store for over a year because when you
walk in, yeah, there's the bright lights

00:28:23.995 --> 00:28:27.925
that could affect you, but what you
don't understand is how much your brain

00:28:27.925 --> 00:28:30.055
processes without you realizing it.

00:28:30.745 --> 00:28:35.095
So I would walk in and I would be
like, cash register woman with blonde

00:28:35.095 --> 00:28:40.405
hair, blue pants, Snickers kit cap,
and anything that I saw, my brain was

00:28:40.405 --> 00:28:42.235
registering but screaming it at me.

00:28:42.625 --> 00:28:42.985
Hmm.

00:28:43.045 --> 00:28:47.185
That my brain would get to this point
where everything would just go black

00:28:47.965 --> 00:28:49.735
that I couldn't process anymore.

00:28:50.050 --> 00:28:52.225
And I would just be left
standing there like an idiot.

00:28:52.825 --> 00:28:53.575
I couldn't move.

00:28:53.845 --> 00:28:54.550
It was like the brain out.

00:28:54.550 --> 00:28:55.030
It sounds, it

00:28:55.030 --> 00:28:57.565
Rupert Isaacson: sounds like
what Rowan, my son describes

00:28:58.165 --> 00:28:59.515
in his early years of autism.

00:29:00.025 --> 00:29:01.945
Christine Doran: It could
be, could be very similar.

00:29:02.335 --> 00:29:05.005
And maybe that's why we're so
good with our programs is because

00:29:05.245 --> 00:29:07.785
I had such a sensory processing.

00:29:07.785 --> 00:29:09.645
Just everything was all out of whack.

00:29:09.645 --> 00:29:14.785
And then I had a major processing delay
where someone would wanna give me their

00:29:14.785 --> 00:29:18.745
phone number and if they said like, seven

00:29:21.985 --> 00:29:26.095
zero, that still sounded like
someone was going seven zero.

00:29:26.965 --> 00:29:27.385
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:29:27.775 --> 00:29:30.655
Christine Doran: I couldn't
process it, that I needed the time.

00:29:31.105 --> 00:29:38.485
And it was unbelievably frustrating
to know what I wanted to say and

00:29:38.485 --> 00:29:43.195
no one giving me the time to get
it out because silence is awkward.

00:29:43.915 --> 00:29:46.675
And what I say now is silence is key.

00:29:47.485 --> 00:29:52.735
That we give each person that walks
through our doors the amount of time

00:29:52.735 --> 00:29:58.735
that they need to be able to communicate
with us and not what society expects

00:29:58.855 --> 00:30:02.265
a normal time to be, to communicate.

00:30:02.655 --> 00:30:07.515
And I think it's what makes us so
powerful is that I really pride myself

00:30:07.515 --> 00:30:13.545
in teaching my staff and my volunteers to
really take the time to get to know this

00:30:13.545 --> 00:30:18.195
person on a personal level and realize
that there's no awkwardness with pauses.

00:30:18.885 --> 00:30:22.095
That that true growth can
happen with those pauses.

00:30:22.125 --> 00:30:26.925
Because for me to try and get
something out, someone would say

00:30:26.925 --> 00:30:31.095
it again to me and I would start
the processing all over again.

00:30:31.365 --> 00:30:35.805
And I would just scream explicits
in my mind too, that like, shut up.

00:30:36.315 --> 00:30:38.505
I'm working so hard on the inside.

00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:43.965
Rupert Isaacson: What, how
could you with all of that.

00:30:44.730 --> 00:30:47.730
Problematic stuff happening in your brain.

00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:54.360
Take on the complexities of opening
and starting to run an equine

00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:57.510
nonprofit, because then you're
going to need to deal with people.

00:30:57.510 --> 00:30:57.600
Mm-hmm.

00:30:58.170 --> 00:31:01.045
A lot of, one of the most

00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:09.240
asinine things, I think one hears
horse people say often dog people

00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:12.690
too, is I love horses, I hate people.

00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:17.520
And it's like, yeah, that does
not help horses, because horses

00:31:17.550 --> 00:31:19.590
are social animals who mm-hmm.

00:31:19.830 --> 00:31:21.420
Interestingly enough, love people.

00:31:21.600 --> 00:31:22.440
Same with dogs.

00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:22.500
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:31:22.950 --> 00:31:28.650
Rupert Isaacson: And thrive when
there's good human tribe, domestic

00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:32.370
forces and do not thrive when
there's dysfunctional human tribe.

00:31:32.370 --> 00:31:35.940
And they certainly don't want the
pressure of just one monkey, you know?

00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:36.120
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:31:36.180 --> 00:31:36.600
Rupert Isaacson: On them.

00:31:36.600 --> 00:31:38.490
They, they, they want diffuse.

00:31:39.300 --> 00:31:43.230
You know, diluted personalities in
the same way that, you know, kids do

00:31:43.230 --> 00:31:45.330
or whatever, that takes the village
to raise a child, blah, blah, blah.

00:31:45.750 --> 00:31:53.450
So, you know, I know when you are at
the helm of an organization that has

00:31:53.450 --> 00:31:57.980
that number of variables and you gotta,
you know, chase the funding and all

00:31:57.980 --> 00:32:01.430
of that, how on earth could you do
that with what was going on with your

00:32:01.565 --> 00:32:01.685
Christine Doran: brain?

00:32:01.685 --> 00:32:02.445
It started very small.

00:32:02.755 --> 00:32:03.285
Very small.

00:32:03.650 --> 00:32:07.610
My focus was training the horses
first, where I went, okay, I can

00:32:07.610 --> 00:32:09.680
do stuff on the ground, so I'm
gonna do stuff on the ground.

00:32:09.860 --> 00:32:11.780
Rupert Isaacson: So you used it
as your own therapy effectively?

00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:12.530
Christine Doran: Yes.

00:32:12.530 --> 00:32:17.120
It was my own therapy and then I found
that I could really understand the,

00:32:17.150 --> 00:32:20.530
there was a couple girls that I had
made like a Facebook page that was

00:32:20.530 --> 00:32:22.900
something that I took me a while to do.

00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:24.700
Everything was like slow motion for me.

00:32:24.760 --> 00:32:25.840
Nothing came quickly.

00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:27.130
Rupert Isaacson: Doesn't sound like it.

00:32:27.130 --> 00:32:30.940
You had a, you had a, an injury one year
and you opened the nonprofit the next.

00:32:31.060 --> 00:32:31.330
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:32:31.330 --> 00:32:32.110
Rupert Isaacson: How did that slow.

00:32:33.685 --> 00:32:34.720
Was that slow for Christie?

00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.895
Christine Doran: Well, it was very
slow once I got started with it,

00:32:36.895 --> 00:32:40.015
because then I couldn't be at my job,
so I had to come up with something.

00:32:40.015 --> 00:32:41.215
I was like, what am I gonna do?

00:32:41.755 --> 00:32:45.295
Because I can't, there was so
much pressure from the people

00:32:45.295 --> 00:32:47.185
that I knew saying, get with it.

00:32:47.275 --> 00:32:48.235
Get it together.

00:32:49.105 --> 00:32:49.945
You look fine.

00:32:50.755 --> 00:32:57.055
That it was, I felt this burden upon
me instead of choosing healing, like,

00:32:57.055 --> 00:33:02.395
of just being still, I felt this huge
pressure to get going on something.

00:33:02.395 --> 00:33:02.485
Sure.

00:33:02.995 --> 00:33:03.865
And so,

00:33:04.195 --> 00:33:04.315
really?

00:33:04.945 --> 00:33:05.305
Yeah.

00:33:05.545 --> 00:33:11.175
And so I I really feel like the horses
were such an integral part and God was so

00:33:11.175 --> 00:33:15.975
good at putting people, when I made that
Facebook post, I had a mom with two girls

00:33:15.975 --> 00:33:18.435
who said, are you looking for volunteers?

00:33:19.245 --> 00:33:20.925
And the two girls were twins.

00:33:21.375 --> 00:33:27.225
And, they had some sensory processing
disorders some on the autism spectrum,

00:33:27.885 --> 00:33:30.435
and I related so well to those girls.

00:33:30.585 --> 00:33:34.695
And I think it's because there was so
much inside that was going on with me

00:33:35.205 --> 00:33:41.595
that was relatable that I was, I was on
a level almost with them on some things.

00:33:42.045 --> 00:33:45.525
And the thing that we really
connected over was horses.

00:33:45.795 --> 00:33:49.455
And so they started on the ground with
me too, learning what I was doing.

00:33:49.455 --> 00:33:50.625
It was trial and error.

00:33:51.135 --> 00:33:56.865
And as I started to get my feet
of like, okay, this feels, I feel

00:33:56.865 --> 00:33:57.915
like I have a handle on this.

00:33:57.915 --> 00:34:02.775
I feel like I can, it, it was to the
point when I started out that I couldn't

00:34:02.775 --> 00:34:04.305
even watch my horse go in a circle.

00:34:04.335 --> 00:34:07.185
I couldn't, my brain just
couldn't move that quickly.

00:34:07.245 --> 00:34:07.305
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:34:07.875 --> 00:34:11.955
Christine Doran: And it was like these
little baby steps that I was doing.

00:34:12.660 --> 00:34:14.520
Eventually these girls took lessons.

00:34:14.550 --> 00:34:16.200
And so I started out with three kids.

00:34:16.230 --> 00:34:17.640
Just three kids in a lesson.

00:34:18.270 --> 00:34:23.730
And then I, yeah, you know, you
say, I, I was moving very slow.

00:34:23.730 --> 00:34:24.840
I know you're joshing with me.

00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:28.250
But then the next year, like in
2015 late 2015 I got pregnant

00:34:28.790 --> 00:34:31.250
and that was a huge surprise.

00:34:31.250 --> 00:34:33.410
Rupert Isaacson: So things must
have improved between you and, Yes.

00:34:33.720 --> 00:34:34.210
Your husband?

00:34:34.905 --> 00:34:35.115
Christine Doran: Yes.

00:34:35.115 --> 00:34:35.805
I liked to, yeah.

00:34:35.855 --> 00:34:36.965
Or I just liked sex.

00:34:36.965 --> 00:34:38.360
You know, I don't remember.

00:34:39.305 --> 00:34:40.295
Rupert Isaacson: Well, here's a question.

00:34:40.295 --> 00:34:46.055
Had your sex drive also gone during the
really bad time, or was that always there?

00:34:47.255 --> 00:34:50.555
And then if it was always
there, did you then reject him?

00:34:50.555 --> 00:34:54.755
Or did you still want that with him,
but not the emotional connection?

00:34:55.355 --> 00:34:57.905
Christine Doran: You know what
was strange is I wanted more sex,

00:34:57.905 --> 00:35:00.575
but it was because I was trying
to find an emotional connection.

00:35:01.145 --> 00:35:01.595
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:35:02.615 --> 00:35:04.265
And then getting frustrated
when you couldn't

00:35:04.565 --> 00:35:05.105
Christine Doran: and I couldn't.

00:35:05.230 --> 00:35:06.785
Rupert Isaacson: So, so there,
so there must have been more

00:35:06.785 --> 00:35:08.705
than 1% of you then Right.

00:35:08.765 --> 00:35:09.425
Looking for that?

00:35:09.425 --> 00:35:11.315
Otherwise you'd have
rejected it Completely.

00:35:11.315 --> 00:35:12.130
Christine Doran: Rejected it completely,

00:35:12.520 --> 00:35:12.810
Rupert Isaacson: yeah.

00:35:12.815 --> 00:35:13.085
Yeah.

00:35:13.355 --> 00:35:13.805
Okay.

00:35:14.075 --> 00:35:14.885
That's interesting.

00:35:14.885 --> 00:35:18.545
So that, again, that part of your
subconscious brain clearly knew.

00:35:18.815 --> 00:35:21.155
Just before we go further on with Yeah.

00:35:22.025 --> 00:35:24.185
I just want to read you
what I got about this.

00:35:24.185 --> 00:35:24.365
No, let

00:35:24.365 --> 00:35:24.770
Christine Doran: me hear it

00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:27.335
Rupert Isaacson: because
I think it, it is helpful.

00:35:27.795 --> 00:35:32.105
So I, I typed in why do TBIs often
bring out negative behaviors?

00:35:33.125 --> 00:35:37.145
And it says because they damage the
specific, I mean, this is ai obviously

00:35:37.385 --> 00:35:41.525
they damage the specific parts of
the brain, responsible for regulating

00:35:41.525 --> 00:35:47.225
emotions, impulse control, and social
behavior, the frontal lobe damage.

00:35:47.925 --> 00:35:52.155
Reduces the breaking mechanism for
so SelfControl emotional regulation.

00:35:52.155 --> 00:35:55.305
We know this, that it makes you
blunt risky behavior as well.

00:35:55.515 --> 00:35:55.815
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:35:56.060 --> 00:35:58.815
Rupert Isaacson: And the amygdala and
limbic system damage to those areas

00:35:58.935 --> 00:36:03.585
can cause intense sudden emotional
outbursts, such as unwarranted fear rage

00:36:03.585 --> 00:36:05.865
or rapid shifts between extreme emotions.

00:36:06.405 --> 00:36:09.855
Then there's neurochemical changes
because if the injury disrupts

00:36:10.065 --> 00:36:13.575
neurotransmitters, it affects how
the brain produces information,

00:36:13.575 --> 00:36:17.725
perceives threats causing the brain
to overstimulate or react defensively.

00:36:17.725 --> 00:36:18.475
It's so interesting.

00:36:18.475 --> 00:36:23.115
It sounds so like the early you know,
forms of, of extreme autism, but

00:36:23.115 --> 00:36:28.905
what's interesting to me is it still
doesn't, to me quite, and it says

00:36:28.905 --> 00:36:35.175
ego egocentric behavior, but, but it
doesn't quite answer why it can't also

00:36:35.175 --> 00:36:38.655
bring out the opposite effect of over.

00:36:39.945 --> 00:36:42.225
Overly positive or overly enthusiastic.

00:36:42.645 --> 00:36:42.705
Yeah.

00:36:42.855 --> 00:36:45.795
But maybe it can, and maybe it's
just that that's not perceived as a

00:36:45.795 --> 00:36:48.585
problem, so maybe goes under the radar.

00:36:48.855 --> 00:36:52.125
And it also made me think just quickly,
you know, back to sort of medieval

00:36:52.125 --> 00:36:57.705
history and ancient history and so on,
what, you know, psychopathic behavior.

00:36:57.915 --> 00:36:58.245
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:36:58.365 --> 00:37:02.445
Rupert Isaacson: Among sort
of knights and warlords.

00:37:02.445 --> 00:37:07.005
And so I guess if you're getting just
whacked on the head so massively all

00:37:07.005 --> 00:37:13.215
the time falling from your horse bash,
da, da da, that there must have been so

00:37:13.215 --> 00:37:14.865
many people walking around like this.

00:37:15.145 --> 00:37:17.950
And then you could like put a
whole city to the sword, right?

00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:18.700
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:37:18.700 --> 00:37:19.690
Rupert Isaacson: And not give a shit.

00:37:20.030 --> 00:37:23.390
And then I've often wondered too,
you know, why are so many people

00:37:23.390 --> 00:37:25.130
in the horse world, you know.

00:37:25.805 --> 00:37:28.925
So like this and that, and it does
make me think, well, a lot of us

00:37:28.925 --> 00:37:29.975
have fallen on our heads a lot.

00:37:30.025 --> 00:37:30.085
Yeah.

00:37:30.115 --> 00:37:33.685
A lot of my dysfunctional
behaviors, you know, down to that.

00:37:34.195 --> 00:37:34.315
Yeah.

00:37:34.315 --> 00:37:37.595
You know, I've, I've fallen off
a lot of horses, you know, so

00:37:37.595 --> 00:37:40.145
it's just, it's inter these are
interesting questions, aren't they?

00:37:40.595 --> 00:37:40.685
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:37:40.685 --> 00:37:45.875
What was really interesting is I, I
never woke up and loved my husband again.

00:37:46.265 --> 00:37:46.295
Okay.

00:37:46.295 --> 00:37:46.415
It

00:37:46.415 --> 00:37:46.535
Rupert Isaacson: was

00:37:46.535 --> 00:37:48.420
Christine Doran: that I
fell in love with him again.

00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.830
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you got
to experience it a second time.

00:37:52.010 --> 00:37:54.620
Christine Doran: I got to experience
it a second time, and now we laugh that

00:37:54.620 --> 00:37:58.100
when I'm really angry with him, I'm
like, well, damn it, I chose you twice.

00:37:58.280 --> 00:37:59.060
This is my fault.

00:38:02.405 --> 00:38:02.625
Rupert Isaacson: You

00:38:02.625 --> 00:38:04.430
Christine Doran: know, because you
have to have humor in something

00:38:04.430 --> 00:38:06.140
Rupert Isaacson: that, it's hard
to imagine being angry with your

00:38:06.140 --> 00:38:08.540
husband and as, as I've met him,
and what can you possibly ever

00:38:08.540 --> 00:38:09.650
do that could make you angry?

00:38:09.650 --> 00:38:10.040
I mean, he's,

00:38:10.130 --> 00:38:11.750
Christine Doran: oh, well, he
can drive me really insane.

00:38:11.750 --> 00:38:12.465
He's very good at

00:38:12.465 --> 00:38:12.625
it.

00:38:15.165 --> 00:38:15.455
Sure.

00:38:15.455 --> 00:38:16.495
Your wife is serious.

00:38:16.815 --> 00:38:19.000
Rupert Isaacson: Well, yeah, but I
mean, I think with me the reason's

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:20.110
a bit more obvious, you know?

00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:22.095
I mean, I'm, I'm, no, I'm

00:38:22.100 --> 00:38:22.630
Christine Doran: very blessed.

00:38:22.630 --> 00:38:24.040
I have a very good husband.

00:38:24.580 --> 00:38:24.850
Rupert Isaacson: I mean, no, you do.

00:38:24.850 --> 00:38:25.040
I mean, he, he,

00:38:25.150 --> 00:38:26.470
Christine Doran: how many
people can say that he does the

00:38:26.470 --> 00:38:27.820
laundry, he does the dishes?

00:38:27.820 --> 00:38:29.950
Rupert Isaacson: Well, I, I actually
do a lot of that stuff too, but

00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:30.240
Christine Doran: yeah.

00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:31.740
Rupert Isaacson: Do you, I
can just be very obnoxious.

00:38:31.740 --> 00:38:34.860
Whereas I think your husband
is much less obnoxious than me.

00:38:35.040 --> 00:38:35.220
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:37.690
Rupert Isaacson: So it is just hard
to imagine him triggering, you know?

00:38:38.030 --> 00:38:38.270
Right.

00:38:38.690 --> 00:38:38.930
Yeah.

00:38:39.055 --> 00:38:40.010
Christine Doran: And he's a very good man.

00:38:40.250 --> 00:38:41.060
Rupert Isaacson: Humans are funny, but.

00:38:42.710 --> 00:38:44.990
Can you describe, again, we're
gonna go into a nonprofit, but I

00:38:44.990 --> 00:38:48.140
think everyone would be intrigued
to know what did it feel like?

00:38:48.170 --> 00:38:51.410
How was it different to fall in love
with the same person the second time?

00:38:51.620 --> 00:38:55.790
Question one, did you remember how it felt
to fall in love with him the first time?

00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.660
And so was there a funny part of
your brain contrasting and comparing?

00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.810
And then the second question
is, how did it differ?

00:39:03.830 --> 00:39:07.400
Christine Doran: No, there wasn't a
like, oh my gosh, this is so different.

00:39:07.670 --> 00:39:14.570
It truly, I think, was that he was so
steady in how our life was and was so

00:39:14.570 --> 00:39:18.795
consistent with me that I, I truly think
I fell in love with him the same way.

00:39:19.850 --> 00:39:21.110
That I did beforehand.

00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:21.470
Okay.

00:39:21.470 --> 00:39:26.750
Because he is so kind and truly
wants to see the best in someone.

00:39:26.750 --> 00:39:28.100
Rupert Isaacson: That's what
I, he's such a kind dude.

00:39:28.105 --> 00:39:29.105
How can you possibly get so

00:39:29.115 --> 00:39:29.465
Christine Doran: angry

00:39:29.465 --> 00:39:29.625
Rupert Isaacson: with him?

00:39:29.705 --> 00:39:30.265
Christine Doran: I mean, I'm,

00:39:30.265 --> 00:39:30.585
Rupert Isaacson: I'm, I'm,

00:39:30.685 --> 00:39:31.760
Christine Doran: I'm, how
many people can say that?

00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:34.430
Like, their husband lets their
wife go live out her dream

00:39:34.430 --> 00:39:35.600
and doesn't, you know Yeah.

00:39:35.660 --> 00:39:38.960
Bring in anything to support things,
you know, that, but he believes

00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:44.450
in what I do and is always for me,
putting money back into scholarships

00:39:44.450 --> 00:39:46.040
instead of bringing it into our house.

00:39:46.040 --> 00:39:49.340
Or, you know, like there's
so much that he sees the good

00:39:49.340 --> 00:39:51.080
that's happening to other people.

00:39:51.410 --> 00:39:51.710
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:39:51.770 --> 00:39:55.130
Christine Doran: That he is
always for me doing this.

00:39:55.536 --> 00:39:57.866
Rupert Isaacson: If you're in the
equine assisted field, or if you're

00:39:57.866 --> 00:40:02.296
considering a career in the equine
assisted field, you might want to consider

00:40:02.366 --> 00:40:06.636
taking one of our three neuroscience
backed equine assisted programs.

00:40:06.696 --> 00:40:12.276
Horseboy method, now established
for 20 years, is the original

00:40:12.871 --> 00:40:19.181
Equine assisted program specifically
designed for autism, mentored by and

00:40:19.181 --> 00:40:21.851
developed in conjunction with Dr.

00:40:21.851 --> 00:40:24.731
Temple Grandin and many
other neuroscientists.

00:40:25.071 --> 00:40:28.341
We work in the saddle
with younger children.

00:40:28.836 --> 00:40:33.786
Helping them create oxytocin in their
bodies and neuroplasticity in the brain.

00:40:34.446 --> 00:40:35.886
It works incredibly well.

00:40:35.886 --> 00:40:37.606
It's now in about 40 countries.

00:40:38.316 --> 00:40:39.066
Check it out.

00:40:39.746 --> 00:40:43.896
If you're working without horses,
you might want to look at movement

00:40:43.906 --> 00:40:47.276
method, which gets a very, very
similar effect, but can also be

00:40:47.276 --> 00:40:49.026
applied in schools, in homes.

00:40:49.226 --> 00:40:54.216
If you're working with families, you can
give them really tangible exercises to do

00:40:54.216 --> 00:40:55.756
at home that will create neuroplasticity.

00:40:57.111 --> 00:40:58.391
when they're not with you.

00:40:58.901 --> 00:41:02.341
Finally, we have taquine
equine integration.

00:41:02.701 --> 00:41:05.321
If you know anything about our
programs, you know that we need a

00:41:05.321 --> 00:41:09.321
really high standard of horsemanship
in order to create the oxytocin

00:41:09.351 --> 00:41:13.641
in the body of the person that
we're working with, child or adult.

00:41:14.081 --> 00:41:17.421
So, this means we need to train
a horse in collection, but this

00:41:17.441 --> 00:41:21.681
also has a really beneficial
effect on the horse's well being.

00:41:21.881 --> 00:41:26.171
And it also ends your time conflict,
where you're wondering, oh my gosh, how

00:41:26.171 --> 00:41:29.471
am I going to condition my horses and
maintain them and give them what they

00:41:29.471 --> 00:41:32.566
need, as well as Serving my clients.

00:41:32.806 --> 00:41:37.306
Takine equine integration aimed
at a more adult client base

00:41:37.636 --> 00:41:39.286
absolutely gives you this.

00:41:39.346 --> 00:41:39.496
Yeah.

00:41:39.501 --> 00:41:40.006
There's no question.

00:41:40.006 --> 00:41:40.756
He's a very good man.

00:41:40.756 --> 00:41:43.246
I can definitely see why, why
you fell in love with him twice.

00:41:43.516 --> 00:41:43.636
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:41:43.666 --> 00:41:45.646
Rupert Isaacson: But so it's,
it's just interesting to me.

00:41:45.916 --> 00:41:48.796
So you, you didn't feel it
was a different experience.

00:41:48.796 --> 00:41:51.916
You felt it was perhaps the
same experience as Revisited?

00:41:52.091 --> 00:41:52.381
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:41:52.381 --> 00:41:52.741
Do you know?

00:41:52.781 --> 00:41:55.006
I didn't even realize I was
falling in love with him.

00:41:55.276 --> 00:41:58.246
It was just one day I woke up
and I was like, I kissed him

00:41:58.246 --> 00:41:59.776
and I was like, oh my gosh.

00:42:00.181 --> 00:42:03.451
Like, I really feel
it's not just chemistry.

00:42:03.451 --> 00:42:05.401
I can feel that love between that kiss.

00:42:05.551 --> 00:42:05.641
Mm-hmm.

00:42:06.511 --> 00:42:10.861
That it was just like this eyeopening
moment for me of like, everything that

00:42:10.861 --> 00:42:12.691
he's doing is making me want him more.

00:42:13.321 --> 00:42:14.551
I wanna be with this man.

00:42:15.121 --> 00:42:17.671
But it wasn't a, oh,
I've got back what I had.

00:42:18.031 --> 00:42:21.931
No, it was this very slow and
steady months on end Okay.

00:42:21.931 --> 00:42:23.581
Of him just being consistent with me.

00:42:23.971 --> 00:42:26.671
Rupert Isaacson: And then back to
when you had the TBI and were in

00:42:26.671 --> 00:42:30.571
the sort of grip of the negatives
did, had, did the chemistry remain?

00:42:31.831 --> 00:42:34.131
Christine Doran: The chemistry did
remain, I still had chemistry with him.

00:42:34.441 --> 00:42:34.861
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:42:34.921 --> 00:42:35.371
Okay.

00:42:35.731 --> 00:42:36.131
Well that was lucky.

00:42:36.246 --> 00:42:36.366
I

00:42:36.371 --> 00:42:39.451
Christine Doran: just didn't care if he
went and got hit by a bus after chemistry.

00:42:39.901 --> 00:42:40.381
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:42:40.831 --> 00:42:41.431
Crazy.

00:42:41.701 --> 00:42:44.281
But, you know, I guess that is
the power of chemistry, isn't it?

00:42:44.281 --> 00:42:46.801
Because if it also kept
you together enough

00:42:46.861 --> 00:42:47.221
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:42:47.651 --> 00:42:51.221
Rupert Isaacson: That it didn't
turn into an abusive codependence.

00:42:51.221 --> 00:42:51.671
Right.

00:42:51.791 --> 00:42:53.501
Because you did come out of it.

00:42:53.951 --> 00:42:56.471
But maybe if you hadn't
had that chemistry.

00:42:56.966 --> 00:42:57.176
You guys

00:42:58.196 --> 00:42:59.006
Christine Doran: might not have made it.

00:42:59.006 --> 00:42:59.026
Might not

00:42:59.026 --> 00:42:59.056
Rupert Isaacson: have made it.

00:42:59.056 --> 00:42:59.131
Yeah.

00:42:59.851 --> 00:43:01.166
Christine Doran: I hadn't
thought about it, but it's true.

00:43:01.226 --> 00:43:05.366
It could possibly, because there
is still so much of, I, you know, I

00:43:05.366 --> 00:43:09.476
had such short term memory loss for
so long that I don't know if you've

00:43:09.476 --> 00:43:11.966
ever seen the movie 51st Dates.

00:43:12.296 --> 00:43:12.386
Mm-hmm.

00:43:12.386 --> 00:43:17.366
But I was not, Lucy, there's a patient
in there called Ten Second Tom, and

00:43:17.366 --> 00:43:23.006
that's who I was, that I would have to,
we lived in a very tiny condo when I had

00:43:23.006 --> 00:43:28.856
my injury, and I would put on a sticky
note going to Kitchen to get water, and

00:43:28.856 --> 00:43:33.116
then every foot I would put a sticky
note, and by the time I made it halfway

00:43:33.416 --> 00:43:36.746
down the hall, I'd forget what I was
doing and I would have to follow my

00:43:36.746 --> 00:43:38.936
sticky notes back to my original message.

00:43:38.941 --> 00:43:39.971
Rupert Isaacson: That's like smoking weed.

00:43:40.741 --> 00:43:41.211
Christine Doran: Isn't that?

00:43:41.261 --> 00:43:41.966
Isn't that crazy?

00:43:41.966 --> 00:43:42.026
Yeah.

00:43:42.056 --> 00:43:46.376
And so I started teaching myself that,
trying to make my brain go further,

00:43:46.796 --> 00:43:50.156
that then I would start going, okay,
well how far can I go before I forget?

00:43:50.876 --> 00:43:50.936
Wow.

00:43:50.936 --> 00:43:53.486
And I'm going to write that down
on a sticky note again on the wall

00:43:54.056 --> 00:43:55.706
and then see how far can I go?

00:43:56.021 --> 00:43:57.461
Before, I can't remember what I'm doing.

00:43:58.181 --> 00:43:58.421
How

00:43:58.421 --> 00:43:59.596
Rupert Isaacson: long
did that phase last For?

00:44:00.256 --> 00:44:00.676
Christine Doran: Months.

00:44:01.416 --> 00:44:01.836
Months.

00:44:02.256 --> 00:44:02.476
Rupert Isaacson: Wow.

00:44:02.616 --> 00:44:06.641
Christine Doran: And I still have a
lot of long-term memory is just gone.

00:44:06.731 --> 00:44:08.491
Like I it's weird.

00:44:08.491 --> 00:44:09.451
Small things are weird.

00:44:09.451 --> 00:44:13.951
Like I still with my oldest sister's
name, like I forgot how to, I

00:44:13.951 --> 00:44:15.751
even forgot my siblings names.

00:44:16.001 --> 00:44:18.521
When I first had it, that there
were several I couldn't remember.

00:44:18.761 --> 00:44:21.291
And to this day I still
have to think about mind.

00:44:21.291 --> 00:44:21.466
There

00:44:21.466 --> 00:44:21.906
Rupert Isaacson: are 10 of them.

00:44:21.936 --> 00:44:22.226
Yeah,

00:44:22.901 --> 00:44:23.531
Christine Doran: there are 10 of them.

00:44:23.531 --> 00:44:23.771
Right.

00:44:24.071 --> 00:44:28.601
But I would, I still like, will have to
make myself think before I write Jennifer,

00:44:28.991 --> 00:44:35.321
or when I'm doing Pilates, I am still
having to work very hard to make my

00:44:35.321 --> 00:44:37.541
opposite leg and my opposite hand go up.

00:44:38.221 --> 00:44:38.501
Okay.

00:44:38.506 --> 00:44:42.071
That there are still things that here
we are, you know, nearly 12 years

00:44:42.071 --> 00:44:45.341
later that my mind is still working on.

00:44:45.491 --> 00:44:50.411
And, and my long-term memory, a lot
of that is gone where like my college

00:44:50.411 --> 00:44:53.621
stays and stuff, that there's a lot
I can't remember, my friends tell me.

00:44:53.621 --> 00:44:54.641
I was so much fun.

00:44:56.201 --> 00:44:59.021
Rupert Isaacson: Well, generally one is
so much fun that one cannot remember.

00:44:59.021 --> 00:44:59.561
Yeah, exactly.

00:45:00.401 --> 00:45:02.201
But here's another question.

00:45:02.311 --> 00:45:02.461
Yeah.

00:45:02.461 --> 00:45:04.711
You never fell out of love
with horses during that time?

00:45:04.711 --> 00:45:04.771
No.

00:45:04.981 --> 00:45:07.651
Did you, did you cease to
give a shit about your horse?

00:45:08.171 --> 00:45:08.261
Christine Doran: Yes.

00:45:08.261 --> 00:45:08.291
Okay.

00:45:08.951 --> 00:45:13.331
I actually at one point but I think
it was more after the beginning phase.

00:45:13.331 --> 00:45:13.781
No.

00:45:14.141 --> 00:45:19.951
But when I had my son that being mixed in
with postpartum depression and anxiety on

00:45:19.951 --> 00:45:25.741
top of the head injury, I nearly gave them
all up that my husband is the one that

00:45:25.741 --> 00:45:29.521
said, you will regret this for the rest of
your life and I cannot allow you to do it.

00:45:30.496 --> 00:45:32.836
Send your horses to
Missouri where it's cheaper.

00:45:33.376 --> 00:45:36.676
And when you are back in your right
mind, we'll bring them back up and

00:45:36.676 --> 00:45:37.006
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:45:37.006 --> 00:45:40.726
So, so, so we are going to, we're
going to now go forward in the story.

00:45:40.726 --> 00:45:41.536
Back to that, yeah.

00:45:41.626 --> 00:45:46.396
One last question though, given
that you know, that, I know that

00:45:46.756 --> 00:45:50.656
we know, know there's a lot of
neuroscience based around when your

00:45:50.716 --> 00:45:53.176
neurologist said go out in nature.

00:45:53.476 --> 00:45:53.746
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:45:53.896 --> 00:45:56.386
Rupert Isaacson: But he didn't
explicitly talk you through the

00:45:56.386 --> 00:46:00.286
sensory stuff that we now know about,
for example, through movement method

00:46:00.286 --> 00:46:01.996
and how that fires the amygdala.

00:46:01.996 --> 00:46:02.086
Yeah.

00:46:02.386 --> 00:46:06.826
And he didn't tell you about BDNF, you
know, brain derived neurotrophic factor.

00:46:07.186 --> 00:46:07.246
Yeah.

00:46:07.246 --> 00:46:10.966
How neuroplasticity works with novel
movement and nature provides novel

00:46:10.966 --> 00:46:12.886
movement all the time, of course.

00:46:13.036 --> 00:46:14.176
And so on and so on.

00:46:14.176 --> 00:46:20.116
Kinji cells, all this stuff that,
it's surprising to me that he

00:46:20.116 --> 00:46:22.516
was a brain dude, that he didn't
spell it out for you like that.

00:46:22.516 --> 00:46:22.576
Yeah.

00:46:22.816 --> 00:46:23.351
Why do he didn't?

00:46:24.706 --> 00:46:26.296
Christine Doran: I don't
know, to be honest.

00:46:26.296 --> 00:46:29.896
I'm just, maybe he thought that I wouldn't
be able to comprehend it anyways, that

00:46:29.896 --> 00:46:33.046
I was just sitting there muttering
the same things that I kept asking

00:46:33.046 --> 00:46:35.236
him of like, when will I, like Matt?

00:46:36.046 --> 00:46:38.656
How can I start to get back to work?

00:46:38.776 --> 00:46:40.066
When will my head stop hurting?

00:46:40.096 --> 00:46:46.126
Like I think my, my thought process was
so much smaller that maybe he possibly

00:46:46.126 --> 00:46:50.296
just thought, it's not worth repeating
this to this woman because I remember that

00:46:50.296 --> 00:46:55.906
they did a an IQ test on me and I scored
very low and I let them know that before

00:46:55.906 --> 00:47:01.456
that I, I had a very decent IQ that,
you know, things came very easy to me.

00:47:01.816 --> 00:47:04.816
I had a photographic memory that
I could memorize an entire play in

00:47:04.816 --> 00:47:06.526
one night and feed people lines.

00:47:06.526 --> 00:47:09.796
Like I now know why people
were so incredibly frustrated

00:47:09.796 --> 00:47:10.816
with me in high school.

00:47:11.026 --> 00:47:15.916
'cause I never worked for anything and I
got everything and that did not come back.

00:47:16.486 --> 00:47:18.076
So everything that I do.

00:47:18.676 --> 00:47:21.466
I work extremely hard for that.

00:47:21.886 --> 00:47:27.826
I had to truly grieve myself like I died
and that I came back as a new person

00:47:28.306 --> 00:47:34.366
because I was so different after my head
injury that it was making me sick to think

00:47:34.366 --> 00:47:37.396
about what I had, and I felt just stupid.

00:47:37.666 --> 00:47:40.786
I felt like I was just this
absolute nimrod idiot walking

00:47:40.786 --> 00:47:42.976
around and I had to tell myself,

00:47:43.186 --> 00:47:44.296
Rupert Isaacson: why did you
give a shit if you didn't give

00:47:44.296 --> 00:47:45.226
a shit about other things?

00:47:45.226 --> 00:47:47.266
Why did you care about that?

00:47:48.196 --> 00:47:53.446
Christine Doran: I dunno, I, I don't
think I had ever noticed how easy

00:47:53.446 --> 00:47:58.546
things were and suddenly when I
couldn't do something, it was like

00:47:58.546 --> 00:48:02.686
the whole rug got ripped out from
underneath me and I lost all identity.

00:48:03.496 --> 00:48:03.916
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:48:04.846 --> 00:48:09.886
And back, I guess probably to the straight
up toddlerdom type frustration and not

00:48:09.886 --> 00:48:11.566
being able to express oneself, right?

00:48:11.596 --> 00:48:11.836
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:48:12.496 --> 00:48:12.796
Yeah.

00:48:13.336 --> 00:48:14.056
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:48:14.476 --> 00:48:16.006
Now I want to jump ahead.

00:48:16.186 --> 00:48:18.976
So you start this nonprofit, it goes slow.

00:48:18.976 --> 00:48:21.946
Your, your recovery's coming,
especially groundwork.

00:48:22.246 --> 00:48:26.266
And we know now, again, we talked
about BDNF and kinji cells.

00:48:27.016 --> 00:48:29.926
Nothing builds that, like working
in hand with a horse, right?

00:48:29.926 --> 00:48:31.376
Because you've got, yeah.

00:48:32.806 --> 00:48:34.216
You've got to operate yourself.

00:48:34.216 --> 00:48:35.236
You've gotta operate the horse.

00:48:35.236 --> 00:48:38.626
You've got to, there's just so many
more moving parts in a funny way

00:48:38.626 --> 00:48:39.976
than there are when one's riding.

00:48:40.586 --> 00:48:41.966
And the relationship is more direct.

00:48:41.966 --> 00:48:42.206
Okay?

00:48:42.206 --> 00:48:44.636
So everything's going well and
you get pregnant and you have

00:48:44.636 --> 00:48:46.196
a son and this is fantastic.

00:48:46.676 --> 00:48:48.566
And then you get hit by postpartum.

00:48:48.566 --> 00:48:48.656
Yes.

00:48:49.436 --> 00:48:50.816
And you wanna give it all up.

00:48:51.506 --> 00:48:51.866
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:48:52.016 --> 00:48:52.316
I

00:48:52.366 --> 00:48:52.486
Rupert Isaacson: I,

00:48:52.911 --> 00:48:55.251
Christine Doran: I didn't even
love my son for 10 months.

00:48:55.761 --> 00:48:57.646
Rupert Isaacson: So do you think
that was linked to the TBI?

00:48:58.101 --> 00:48:58.821
Christine Doran: I think so.

00:48:59.061 --> 00:48:59.451
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:48:59.661 --> 00:49:01.431
Christine Doran: I don't think
it would've been as strong.

00:49:01.866 --> 00:49:05.406
And that was so weird for me
because I love babies and I

00:49:05.406 --> 00:49:07.206
was so excited to have a baby.

00:49:07.536 --> 00:49:10.836
And I remember him being born and
placed on my chest and feeling nothing.

00:49:11.256 --> 00:49:13.716
And no one's saying that
that sometimes happens.

00:49:13.746 --> 00:49:16.896
You know, that women always think that
they have to have this amazing moment.

00:49:16.896 --> 00:49:23.166
And yes, I've had that moment with one of
my babies, but only one out of the three

00:49:23.496 --> 00:49:26.496
did I have that instantaneous moment.

00:49:26.736 --> 00:49:29.826
But it just, it didn't slowly come back.

00:49:29.856 --> 00:49:33.486
It just kept getting worse that
I told my doctor that I felt like

00:49:33.486 --> 00:49:38.106
glass, that if someone touched me I
would shatter into a million pieces.

00:49:38.526 --> 00:49:42.726
And so then they went trying to find
medication for me what would help.

00:49:43.056 --> 00:49:48.186
I closed down the barn 'cause I had a
boarding barn with it that at six weeks

00:49:48.576 --> 00:49:50.916
I knew I couldn't, I couldn't function.

00:49:51.066 --> 00:49:53.136
So I closed it down.

00:49:53.446 --> 00:49:55.606
I re-homed some of the horses that I had.

00:49:55.981 --> 00:49:59.961
I kept the the three that were
the most important to me, that I

00:49:59.961 --> 00:50:03.411
really had a deep connection with,
and moved those down to Missouri.

00:50:03.921 --> 00:50:07.101
And then I picked up a nannying job
to pay for them because I didn't

00:50:07.101 --> 00:50:08.511
wanna get rid of 'em, but I couldn't

00:50:08.601 --> 00:50:09.891
Rupert Isaacson: because
you love kids so much,

00:50:10.131 --> 00:50:10.491
Christine Doran: right?

00:50:10.761 --> 00:50:11.451
I know, right.

00:50:11.451 --> 00:50:14.661
But I couldn't do computer work,
so I was really stuck between this

00:50:14.661 --> 00:50:19.461
rock and a hard place of needing to
come up with six, 700 bucks a month.

00:50:19.851 --> 00:50:19.911
Yeah.

00:50:19.941 --> 00:50:25.281
And having this brand new baby and not
knowing where do I, what do I do with it?

00:50:25.581 --> 00:50:25.851
Yeah.

00:50:25.851 --> 00:50:28.491
That I didn't have my family around.

00:50:28.521 --> 00:50:32.061
And I remember my therapist saying to
my husband, I don't think you understand

00:50:32.781 --> 00:50:34.371
what a bad state your wife is in.

00:50:34.461 --> 00:50:36.291
Maybe you should let her go to Missouri.

00:50:36.501 --> 00:50:38.451
And he was like, no, I don't
wanna be away from my kid.

00:50:38.991 --> 00:50:42.381
But I think it would've probably
been the best thing for me

00:50:42.531 --> 00:50:44.061
to have a tribe around me.

00:50:44.511 --> 00:50:44.811
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:50:44.901 --> 00:50:46.971
Christine Doran: Where instead we did

00:50:46.971 --> 00:50:47.836
Rupert Isaacson: you
not have imported them?

00:50:47.836 --> 00:50:50.121
Could you not have asked your
mom and people to come up?

00:50:50.181 --> 00:50:51.651
Christine Doran: My mom was
still working at the time.

00:50:52.206 --> 00:50:53.346
And saw my sisters were.

00:50:53.346 --> 00:50:55.956
And so no one really understood
what I was going through.

00:50:55.961 --> 00:50:56.201
Mm-hmm.

00:50:56.286 --> 00:50:59.916
And then it was just a really weird
time that we had sold our condo

00:51:00.246 --> 00:51:02.676
three weeks before I had my son.

00:51:03.066 --> 00:51:07.176
And then the other house that we were
supposed to be moving into kept getting

00:51:07.176 --> 00:51:10.146
pushed back that we had to move in
with my uncle for a couple months.

00:51:10.566 --> 00:51:14.496
Then I moved into my in-laws house
and things were very strained with

00:51:14.496 --> 00:51:18.126
my, I have a amazing relationship
with my in-laws now, but my

00:51:18.126 --> 00:51:21.156
mother-in-law and I were really,
you know, that was like her precious

00:51:21.156 --> 00:51:24.276
baby boy that now had a wife and you

00:51:24.276 --> 00:51:24.846
Rupert Isaacson: didn't love him

00:51:25.331 --> 00:51:28.386
Christine Doran: and I didn't
love him that she would come down.

00:51:28.386 --> 00:51:31.116
And so we were staying and I, I
would stay in the basement every day.

00:51:31.116 --> 00:51:32.916
I just wanted to be in
the dark with the baby.

00:51:32.921 --> 00:51:33.171
Yeah.

00:51:33.216 --> 00:51:36.246
And she would come down nonstop to
make sure that I didn't commit suicide.

00:51:36.786 --> 00:51:38.976
Rupert Isaacson: And why did you wanna be
with the baby if you didn't love the baby?

00:51:40.056 --> 00:51:41.016
Christine Doran: He
was such a weird thing.

00:51:41.016 --> 00:51:42.066
I can't even explain it.

00:51:42.156 --> 00:51:46.566
I wanted him next to me, but I, it
was almost like I, I kept telling

00:51:46.566 --> 00:51:49.386
myself that I would fake it until I
made it that I never wanted, wanted.

00:51:49.386 --> 00:51:49.566
So again,

00:51:49.566 --> 00:51:52.326
Rupert Isaacson: a little bit like when
you have the TBI, that subconscious part

00:51:52.326 --> 00:51:56.106
of you kicking in that says, I know this
isn't right, so I'm gonna persevere.

00:51:56.496 --> 00:51:57.666
Christine Doran: I'm
gonna persevere and do it.

00:51:57.671 --> 00:51:57.741
Okay.

00:51:57.746 --> 00:52:00.366
And so I truly, I faked loving him.

00:52:00.426 --> 00:52:05.916
I gave him all the kisses, you know,
nursed him until he was almost a year old.

00:52:06.016 --> 00:52:09.496
But had no connection until 10 months.

00:52:09.496 --> 00:52:12.916
Something clicked at 10 months,
and I was just obsessed with him.

00:52:13.636 --> 00:52:15.136
But it wasn't until 10 months.

00:52:16.936 --> 00:52:18.046
Rupert Isaacson: How interesting.

00:52:18.076 --> 00:52:18.496
Okay.

00:52:18.496 --> 00:52:22.756
So then, so you go through this,
and then at what point do you

00:52:22.756 --> 00:52:25.906
resuscitate your nonprofit and your,

00:52:26.206 --> 00:52:27.826
Christine Doran: so it was
pretty much around that 10 month

00:52:27.826 --> 00:52:29.491
mark where I, I was like, okay.

00:52:30.346 --> 00:52:32.536
I, I wanna find me again.

00:52:32.686 --> 00:52:34.216
It was just, it was really weird.

00:52:34.216 --> 00:52:39.406
It was like a light clicked
and I was gung-ho about finding

00:52:39.406 --> 00:52:41.356
me again and pursuing me.

00:52:41.746 --> 00:52:47.646
And so I had one of my little ponies
when I was struggling so badly with my

00:52:47.736 --> 00:52:52.716
brain injury where I was having trouble
being coordinated and walking straight.

00:52:53.256 --> 00:52:56.706
I went and I grabbed the pony that
I had had, I had it at a friend's

00:52:56.706 --> 00:53:00.576
house and I went and I retrained
him to be my service animal.

00:53:01.866 --> 00:53:07.146
And when I was with him, I
noticed my anxiety was down.

00:53:07.146 --> 00:53:10.446
I could like control my
level of emotions more.

00:53:11.016 --> 00:53:13.896
And so I had him everywhere
with me that if I

00:53:13.896 --> 00:53:15.216
Rupert Isaacson: would like
the emotional support animal.

00:53:15.216 --> 00:53:15.276
Yeah.

00:53:15.456 --> 00:53:16.956
You didn't teach him to drive an Uber.

00:53:17.886 --> 00:53:18.156
Christine Doran: Right.

00:53:18.216 --> 00:53:20.256
You know what he did is
he was so wonderful that.

00:53:20.616 --> 00:53:25.206
When I was so unstable and stuff
that I would bring him into like the

00:53:25.206 --> 00:53:26.766
grocery store with me and hold onto him

00:53:26.916 --> 00:53:27.426
Rupert Isaacson: really?

00:53:27.756 --> 00:53:30.906
Christine Doran: And he, I, he would
pack all my food, you know, I'd put

00:53:30.906 --> 00:53:35.166
it on around like a circ single on
him and I'd go and check out and

00:53:35.166 --> 00:53:36.456
then put it back in those bags.

00:53:36.456 --> 00:53:40.086
And then he would jump into the back of
my truck, walk into my house with me.

00:53:40.866 --> 00:53:43.026
I put away my groceries and
then he lived in my backyard.

00:53:43.536 --> 00:53:43.836
Yeah.

00:53:43.896 --> 00:53:44.886
Rupert Isaacson: Where is this horse now?

00:53:45.246 --> 00:53:46.206
Christine Doran: He's still here.

00:53:46.296 --> 00:53:49.666
So, he, now, since he was my
service animal, I had to teach

00:53:49.666 --> 00:53:50.626
him how to be potty trained.

00:53:51.166 --> 00:53:53.716
And so now he goes into
schools in nursing homes.

00:53:53.776 --> 00:53:54.166
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:53:54.166 --> 00:53:55.066
So he does that job.

00:53:55.246 --> 00:53:56.596
How you teach him to be potty trained

00:53:57.466 --> 00:53:58.516
Christine Doran: takes a long time.

00:53:58.516 --> 00:54:02.596
You literally sit out in the yard with
your child, wait for a horse to pee,

00:54:03.016 --> 00:54:05.326
and as he's peeing, you say, go potty.

00:54:05.446 --> 00:54:06.796
You click and you give him a treat.

00:54:07.276 --> 00:54:11.986
And now when we go to events, I can
have him get out of the car, go to

00:54:11.986 --> 00:54:14.986
a mulch pile or the grass, and I
tell him to go potty and he pees.

00:54:15.286 --> 00:54:15.886
Rupert Isaacson: What about poo?

00:54:16.861 --> 00:54:18.931
Christine Doran: What I have found
is it's really difficult not to get

00:54:18.931 --> 00:54:21.931
a horse to poop because if they have
eaten, so I don't allow him to eat

00:54:21.931 --> 00:54:23.851
for an hour before we go somewhere.

00:54:24.121 --> 00:54:24.211
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:54:24.301 --> 00:54:24.421
And

00:54:24.421 --> 00:54:26.581
Christine Doran: I find that
by not allowing him to eat

00:54:26.581 --> 00:54:28.111
for that hour, he never poops

00:54:28.501 --> 00:54:30.961
Rupert Isaacson: because I had a
horse which called Clue who we used

00:54:30.961 --> 00:54:34.561
to ride a quarter horse who used to
take him into all kinds of buildings.

00:54:34.561 --> 00:54:37.981
And, and I remember riding him onto
like a dance floor, crowded dance

00:54:37.981 --> 00:54:42.721
floor in a, in a club in Austin and
onto the stage of the musicians.

00:54:42.721 --> 00:54:45.031
And we did all kinds of
crazy things with Clue.

00:54:45.091 --> 00:54:45.661
He was amazing.

00:54:46.651 --> 00:54:48.126
He was like the ambassador, you know?

00:54:48.131 --> 00:54:48.271
Yeah.

00:54:48.841 --> 00:54:50.881
Never once ped.

00:54:51.541 --> 00:54:54.811
And it was after like, I think I took
him into a building twice and we had

00:54:54.811 --> 00:54:57.361
all the scoopers ready and he didn't.

00:54:57.361 --> 00:54:57.841
And he didn't.

00:54:57.841 --> 00:54:59.761
And I, I thought, I think he's getting it.

00:55:00.271 --> 00:55:00.601
Yeah.

00:55:00.601 --> 00:55:04.361
And I just had this faith after a
while that he wouldn't and he won't.

00:55:04.361 --> 00:55:05.011
And he never did.

00:55:05.311 --> 00:55:05.431
Yeah.

00:55:05.431 --> 00:55:05.881
He never won.

00:55:06.001 --> 00:55:07.351
Christine Doran: I used to
have a little bag that I would

00:55:07.351 --> 00:55:07.621
Rupert Isaacson: put

00:55:07.711 --> 00:55:08.221
Christine Doran: on him.

00:55:08.286 --> 00:55:08.766
Rupert Isaacson: Alright.

00:55:09.066 --> 00:55:13.326
A question too about horses, the horse
that threw you, what became of that horse?

00:55:14.646 --> 00:55:15.186
Christine Doran: Which one?

00:55:15.486 --> 00:55:16.416
Rupert Isaacson: The horse that threw you.

00:55:16.421 --> 00:55:18.701
The what Didn't throw you the horse
that you had the accident with.

00:55:18.851 --> 00:55:19.141
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:55:19.236 --> 00:55:19.806
She's here.

00:55:20.286 --> 00:55:20.376
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:55:20.376 --> 00:55:20.706
She's with

00:55:20.781 --> 00:55:20.861
Christine Doran: me.

00:55:21.426 --> 00:55:21.606
Yeah.

00:55:21.606 --> 00:55:22.806
She is my heart horse.

00:55:23.226 --> 00:55:23.556
Rupert Isaacson: Fantastic.

00:55:23.556 --> 00:55:24.181
Christine Doran: I love her pieces.

00:55:24.786 --> 00:55:26.346
She is the alpha of the herd.

00:55:26.346 --> 00:55:26.376
Okay.

00:55:26.976 --> 00:55:29.736
And that she is the one
that she got released.

00:55:29.741 --> 00:55:30.141
Rupert Isaacson: Did I meet her?

00:55:30.561 --> 00:55:31.026
Christine Doran: You did.

00:55:31.026 --> 00:55:31.986
She's my buckskin.

00:55:32.651 --> 00:55:32.941
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

00:55:33.251 --> 00:55:33.541
Okay.

00:55:33.546 --> 00:55:34.086
Okay,

00:55:34.146 --> 00:55:34.626
Christine Doran: Missy.

00:55:34.746 --> 00:55:35.076
Yep.

00:55:35.496 --> 00:55:36.066
So

00:55:36.066 --> 00:55:38.436
Rupert Isaacson: she doesn't exhibit tho
that, those extremes of behavior now.

00:55:39.096 --> 00:55:39.756
Christine Doran: No.

00:55:39.756 --> 00:55:41.736
No, but she truly was.

00:55:42.216 --> 00:55:46.686
I like to say that she made me grow
as an individual and as a horse

00:55:46.686 --> 00:55:52.056
person, that she wasn't going to let
me slide with what I knew she was

00:55:52.056 --> 00:55:56.106
gonna make me learn new tactics that
were more beneficial to everyone.

00:55:56.676 --> 00:56:00.846
Rupert Isaacson: It's great that you,
you, you managed to not reject or that,

00:56:00.846 --> 00:56:04.476
you know, your husband didn't insist
like, okay, this horse is dangerous.

00:56:04.686 --> 00:56:04.746
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:56:05.016 --> 00:56:07.956
Rupert Isaacson: And that they, she now
has her, her place in the therapy program.

00:56:07.956 --> 00:56:09.186
That's, that's fantastic.

00:56:09.336 --> 00:56:09.606
Christine Doran: Absolutely.

00:56:09.876 --> 00:56:12.366
Rupert Isaacson: Alright, so you're in
love, you fall in love with your son.

00:56:12.936 --> 00:56:13.866
You fall, you fall in
love with your husband.

00:56:13.866 --> 00:56:14.976
Then you fall outta love with your son.

00:56:14.976 --> 00:56:16.056
You fall back in up with your son.

00:56:16.326 --> 00:56:18.036
You, you've got this,
still got the heart horse.

00:56:18.036 --> 00:56:20.496
Who caused the TBI thing
in the first place?

00:56:20.836 --> 00:56:22.156
God, we horse people are strange.

00:56:22.606 --> 00:56:22.696
Christine Doran: Right?

00:56:23.836 --> 00:56:26.656
Rupert Isaacson: Then,
you know, it's funny,

00:56:27.101 --> 00:56:28.781
Christine Doran: I lost my
whole identity and created a new

00:56:28.781 --> 00:56:29.861
one, but this horse will stay,

00:56:30.461 --> 00:56:30.661
Rupert Isaacson: I think.

00:56:30.666 --> 00:56:33.166
I think we should, I think that
should be the title of this.

00:56:34.246 --> 00:56:35.656
Why are horse people crazy?

00:56:35.656 --> 00:56:38.926
We finally have the answer because
we've all taken too many TBIs.

00:56:39.256 --> 00:56:45.766
Alright, so now the nonprofit is
beginning, at what point are you

00:56:45.766 --> 00:56:48.106
starting like the full on rescue?

00:56:49.126 --> 00:56:54.886
Christine Doran: Yeah, so we had done
in 20, like 16, probably the middle

00:56:54.886 --> 00:57:00.226
of 2016 I really started to find
forces where they were finding me.

00:57:00.346 --> 00:57:03.646
People were starting to say, Hey, do
you think you could take this horse on?

00:57:04.026 --> 00:57:08.061
And I was doing well enough by then
I started to bring more kiddos into

00:57:08.061 --> 00:57:10.926
my program that I needed more horses.

00:57:11.076 --> 00:57:12.606
And so I thought, okay, I'll take 'em on.

00:57:12.696 --> 00:57:16.656
Let me see if I can rehab 'em, you
know, and, and I started really testing

00:57:16.656 --> 00:57:21.456
out what I had learned with Missy when
I had my TBI and started trying these

00:57:21.456 --> 00:57:23.496
tactics on horses and going, wow.

00:57:24.471 --> 00:57:27.621
I'm getting so much further and
I'm not having these issues when

00:57:27.621 --> 00:57:30.381
I'm riding 'cause I'm solving
all the problems on the ground.

00:57:31.041 --> 00:57:36.141
And it just kept building up
from there that by the time 2018

00:57:36.141 --> 00:57:41.061
came along, I had grown so much
that I had moved several barns.

00:57:41.091 --> 00:57:42.321
'cause I kept outgrowing them.

00:57:42.891 --> 00:57:47.331
And the barn that I was at, the
manager said, why are you here?

00:57:47.751 --> 00:57:51.711
You're paying more and board
than you are for a mortgage.

00:57:52.056 --> 00:57:55.746
And I said, yeah, but my husband
said he would divorce me if I ever

00:57:55.746 --> 00:57:58.896
had my business in the backyard
and I really wanna stay married.

00:57:59.976 --> 00:58:05.616
So she's like, there is literally a place
less than five minutes from this barn.

00:58:06.216 --> 00:58:07.386
You need to look at it.

00:58:07.446 --> 00:58:10.626
It just, you know, it's
been for sale for a while.

00:58:10.656 --> 00:58:12.366
They keep taking it
down, putting it back up.

00:58:12.366 --> 00:58:13.536
You've gotta look at this place.

00:58:14.136 --> 00:58:15.936
And I said, no, don't even send it to me.

00:58:16.116 --> 00:58:16.686
Don't do it.

00:58:16.986 --> 00:58:18.516
And of course she sent it to me.

00:58:18.701 --> 00:58:18.991
Okay.

00:58:18.996 --> 00:58:22.686
And I look at it and I'm like,
oh my gosh, I love this place.

00:58:22.836 --> 00:58:27.756
And so I say to my husband, would
you go and just look at it with me?

00:58:28.086 --> 00:58:30.636
Just look, that's all I wanna
do is look, we don't, we don't

00:58:30.636 --> 00:58:31.776
have to actually do this.

00:58:32.286 --> 00:58:35.946
And he said that he went just
to appease me and to really shut

00:58:35.946 --> 00:58:37.956
me up, is what he has told me.

00:58:39.096 --> 00:58:43.866
And then he got here and he
couldn't find one thing that he

00:58:43.866 --> 00:58:45.246
didn't love about the property.

00:58:46.146 --> 00:58:49.806
And the property was not made to be like.

00:58:50.376 --> 00:58:55.176
A therapeutic ranch in, anyway, the,
the driveway was like carriage size.

00:58:55.566 --> 00:58:57.606
The driveway ended at the house.

00:58:57.856 --> 00:59:01.156
The barn was had a basketball court in it.

00:59:01.541 --> 00:59:03.586
It had a loft rooms.

00:59:03.586 --> 00:59:06.166
I mean, it was just, it
was not met for horses.

00:59:06.166 --> 00:59:09.586
There was a stall barn, but
it flooded really badly.

00:59:09.696 --> 00:59:10.386
And I loved it.

00:59:10.446 --> 00:59:11.106
I wanted it.

00:59:11.196 --> 00:59:14.406
And so he said, well,
let's just go to the bank.

00:59:14.406 --> 00:59:16.266
I don't even think we
can afford this place.

00:59:16.266 --> 00:59:16.986
I said, okay.

00:59:17.616 --> 00:59:21.966
And it ended up being that we were
approved for the exact amount that

00:59:21.966 --> 00:59:22.806
they were selling the house for.

00:59:23.556 --> 00:59:24.336
Rupert Isaacson: How interesting.

00:59:24.546 --> 00:59:27.946
Christine Doran: And so we put
in an offer and the guy didn't

00:59:27.946 --> 00:59:29.446
wanna budge on the price.

00:59:29.446 --> 00:59:31.276
He was like, no, you don't
get anything with it.

00:59:31.276 --> 00:59:32.686
I want the price I want.

00:59:33.136 --> 00:59:35.306
And so we were like, well, you know what?

00:59:35.306 --> 00:59:35.966
We really love it.

00:59:36.086 --> 00:59:37.316
We'll, we'll pay him full price.

00:59:37.316 --> 00:59:37.646
Fine.

00:59:37.646 --> 00:59:38.186
Yeah, sure.

00:59:38.191 --> 00:59:42.331
And, at the very last minute, like
the last week before closing, our

00:59:42.331 --> 00:59:44.941
bank decided they wanted one more.

00:59:45.181 --> 00:59:45.961
Oh, what is it called?

00:59:45.961 --> 00:59:48.151
When they, they see how
much your house is worth?

00:59:48.151 --> 00:59:49.591
The, the name's escaping me.

00:59:50.281 --> 00:59:50.371
Rupert Isaacson: Oh yeah.

00:59:51.301 --> 00:59:51.991
The valuation.

00:59:52.411 --> 00:59:52.711
Christine Doran: Yeah.

00:59:52.711 --> 00:59:56.881
So they came out and they
said it was 20,000 less than

00:59:56.881 --> 00:59:58.231
what he was selling it for.

00:59:58.651 --> 01:00:00.361
And we thought he was
gonna walk away from it.

01:00:00.721 --> 01:00:04.591
But his wife by then had found
her perfect home and she told

01:00:04.591 --> 01:00:06.091
him, screw you, we're moving.

01:00:07.651 --> 01:00:07.711
Okay.

01:00:07.711 --> 01:00:12.901
And so we ended up here and that
really allowed us to blossom was at

01:00:12.901 --> 01:00:17.341
the end of 2018 and allowed me to
really grow in the way I wanted to.

01:00:17.611 --> 01:00:22.171
And I had no restrictions by other
borders meeting the arena, and that

01:00:22.381 --> 01:00:24.181
it just allowed us to flourish that.

01:00:24.211 --> 01:00:27.031
Then we started getting horses
from auction for slaughter.

01:00:27.661 --> 01:00:29.261
And then and how did that

01:00:29.261 --> 01:00:29.561
Rupert Isaacson: happen?

01:00:29.561 --> 01:00:31.751
How, how did you, how did you
end up getting horses from that?

01:00:32.426 --> 01:00:35.756
Christine Doran: So there was a guy about
four hours south of here that someone

01:00:35.756 --> 01:00:42.176
introduced me to, and he has a meat truck
that gets delivered and he has 10 days

01:00:42.176 --> 01:00:43.826
to sell whatever's on that meat truck.

01:00:44.606 --> 01:00:48.626
And so he auctions those horses off
and whatever gets sold, gets sold and

01:00:48.626 --> 01:00:52.076
whatever doesn't loads back up on the
meat truck and heads for slaughter.

01:00:52.556 --> 01:00:53.876
Rupert Isaacson: And why
does he get these horses?

01:00:53.876 --> 01:00:55.376
What's, what's the,
what's the infrastructure?

01:00:55.376 --> 01:00:58.586
I think a lot of people don't, under don't
understand this, it's worth going into,

01:00:58.916 --> 01:01:03.026
so one often hears, oh, this horse was
a kill pen horse, but what's a kill pen?

01:01:03.116 --> 01:01:03.536
Right.

01:01:03.846 --> 01:01:05.766
What do people mean when they say that?

01:01:05.766 --> 01:01:08.706
So you really know this from the inside.

01:01:08.766 --> 01:01:10.386
This is actually not my world at all.

01:01:10.386 --> 01:01:13.506
Like I've, I've definitely taken
horses that people have said,

01:01:13.536 --> 01:01:14.856
I'm gonna put this horse down.

01:01:14.856 --> 01:01:16.416
And I'm like, okay, fine, I'll take him.

01:01:16.416 --> 01:01:16.476
Yeah.

01:01:16.686 --> 01:01:18.666
So it's happened to me a couple
of times and they've always turned

01:01:18.666 --> 01:01:20.826
out to be fabulous, but I've never.

01:01:21.436 --> 01:01:23.746
Rehomed horses from a kill pen.

01:01:23.746 --> 01:01:23.806
Yeah.

01:01:23.986 --> 01:01:26.056
Just because horses have
never come to me that way.

01:01:26.236 --> 01:01:29.476
So I've always been a little bit intrigued
by what do people actually mean by that?

01:01:29.476 --> 01:01:30.106
So can you Yeah.

01:01:30.106 --> 01:01:33.616
Just talk us through the infrastructure
whereby this man receives that meat

01:01:33.616 --> 01:01:37.696
truck and how these horses end up on
this meat truck in the first place.

01:01:37.756 --> 01:01:39.496
Christine Doran: Well, and I don't
think that people realize that

01:01:39.496 --> 01:01:41.446
there's such a demand for horse meat.

01:01:41.446 --> 01:01:41.476
Okay.

01:01:41.866 --> 01:01:42.976
That's why it exists.

01:01:43.066 --> 01:01:48.111
So, they used to allow in a
couple states within the United

01:01:48.111 --> 01:01:51.096
States to slaughter horses, and
that stopped over a decade ago.

01:01:51.096 --> 01:01:55.066
And so the, the numbers started to
drop because you have to go to Mexico

01:01:55.096 --> 01:01:57.436
or to Canada to slaughter a horse.

01:01:58.021 --> 01:02:02.731
But it went from like, I think 120,000
a year to, I think last year it was a

01:02:02.731 --> 01:02:04.591
little over 20,000 horses got slaughtered.

01:02:05.131 --> 01:02:10.381
But zoos buy the meat up like that
because it's such high protein meat.

01:02:10.651 --> 01:02:11.071
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:02:11.071 --> 01:02:13.771
Christine Doran: So there is
always a demand for the meat there.

01:02:14.161 --> 01:02:17.791
But also there are places in
Europe that eat horse meat.

01:02:18.181 --> 01:02:20.731
And so, I mean, I would

01:02:21.001 --> 01:02:22.291
Rupert Isaacson: what pet
food doesn't go to pet food?

01:02:23.151 --> 01:02:25.161
Christine Doran: You know, I used
to always think that it did, but the

01:02:25.161 --> 01:02:31.761
more research I did, I found out more
of it was the zoo and for people.

01:02:31.761 --> 01:02:38.061
But what I find interesting is there's
really not a ton of regulation on.

01:02:38.466 --> 01:02:41.586
They tell you when a horse
has to have their last meds or

01:02:41.586 --> 01:02:42.876
whatever before they're killed.

01:02:43.716 --> 01:02:45.786
But do you know that they're
actually following that?

01:02:46.446 --> 01:02:51.506
That we we don't know because I don't
think it's a very regulated system.

01:02:51.506 --> 01:02:55.706
I could be, I could be wrong there, but
you really have no idea how long that

01:02:55.706 --> 01:02:57.836
they've actually been there or not.

01:02:58.136 --> 01:02:58.206
So Okay.

01:02:58.206 --> 01:03:01.046
I think that most people have no
idea that it actually exists still.

01:03:01.046 --> 01:03:04.916
They think that there's so many
bad rescues out there that aren't

01:03:04.916 --> 01:03:09.116
actually rescues and that are
getting all of this money in.

01:03:09.296 --> 01:03:12.506
They're very good at marketing and
making it look like that they're helping

01:03:12.506 --> 01:03:14.396
out animals, but they're really not.

01:03:14.816 --> 01:03:15.566
And so

01:03:15.866 --> 01:03:17.036
Rupert Isaacson: what
does that mean exactly?

01:03:17.036 --> 01:03:17.906
Be specific?

01:03:19.076 --> 01:03:20.906
Christine Doran: So like,
what are they actually doing?

01:03:21.356 --> 01:03:23.396
Rupert Isaacson: Are you saying that
there are horse rescues out there that

01:03:23.396 --> 01:03:26.816
are actually just getting horses in
and then selling them for slaughter?

01:03:27.746 --> 01:03:30.566
Christine Doran: Oh, I'm saying
that I do know of one that.

01:03:31.466 --> 01:03:35.316
I've been even told by a volunteer
who used to work at another rescue

01:03:35.706 --> 01:03:40.056
that when they couldn't adopt out the
horses, they just sent them to auction.

01:03:40.776 --> 01:03:43.896
And that, I don't think
happens all the time.

01:03:43.896 --> 01:03:47.376
I think most of the time when you
have these false ones, they're

01:03:47.376 --> 01:03:48.876
not even rescuing the horses.

01:03:48.936 --> 01:03:52.026
They pretend that they're rescuing,
they show you all these horrible

01:03:52.026 --> 01:03:54.606
images of horses, but they're
not actually doing anything.

01:03:54.666 --> 01:03:57.906
Or they're rounding them up and
they're not caring where they go.

01:03:58.806 --> 01:04:01.116
That a lot of rescues,

01:04:01.866 --> 01:04:02.616
Rupert Isaacson: this is,
this is a, this is a problem.

01:04:02.736 --> 01:04:03.696
This is like a thing.

01:04:04.086 --> 01:04:07.386
Christine Doran: It's a major problem
that I can't even talk about when it

01:04:07.386 --> 01:04:14.226
comes to if I wanted to try and get a
sponsorship from, some type of large

01:04:14.226 --> 01:04:19.206
company, hello Shadow, A large company
that actually deals with horse stuff,

01:04:19.206 --> 01:04:23.226
maybe boots or you know, whatever it
may be, ar, ot, or you know, just big

01:04:23.256 --> 01:04:28.956
companies when you apply and saying that
you're a rescue, a lot of them don't

01:04:28.956 --> 01:04:33.636
even look at you because rescues get
such bad raps that so many people lie.

01:04:34.986 --> 01:04:36.846
Rupert Isaacson: A little bit
like bad foster parents who are

01:04:36.846 --> 01:04:38.106
just doing it for the paycheck.

01:04:38.436 --> 01:04:38.946
Christine Doran: Exactly.

01:04:39.666 --> 01:04:40.836
Rupert Isaacson: How interesting.

01:04:40.971 --> 01:04:41.391
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.

01:04:41.886 --> 01:04:42.756
Rupert Isaacson: I had no idea.

01:04:42.876 --> 01:04:45.996
You'd have thought I would've, I would've
after so many years in this field.

01:04:46.026 --> 01:04:46.206
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:04:46.206 --> 01:04:50.826
So I try very hard to be as transparent
as we possibly can with our social

01:04:50.826 --> 01:04:54.186
media, with our online numbers of
how much money we raise everything.

01:04:54.546 --> 01:05:00.066
Because especially when you're a smaller
nonprofit, small nonprofits unfortunately

01:05:00.066 --> 01:05:01.866
have a very bad reputation as well.

01:05:01.866 --> 01:05:06.606
Not just in the horse world, just any
small nonprofit of taking advantage of the

01:05:06.816 --> 01:05:13.231
tax exemption and donations and using that
money for however they want, and not, I

01:05:13.231 --> 01:05:13.871
Rupert Isaacson: think
that's Go to church.

01:05:13.981 --> 01:05:14.271
Yeah.

01:05:14.771 --> 01:05:15.121
Sorry.

01:05:15.881 --> 01:05:16.361
I know you're

01:05:17.701 --> 01:05:18.566
Christine Doran: so, so we're.

01:05:18.986 --> 01:05:19.526
It does happen.

01:05:19.526 --> 01:05:19.796
Right.

01:05:19.846 --> 01:05:21.616
So we're very good about that.

01:05:21.646 --> 01:05:25.276
If money comes in where people
want it to go to food, we literally

01:05:25.276 --> 01:05:27.076
label that money as just food money.

01:05:27.141 --> 01:05:27.491
Right.

01:05:27.556 --> 01:05:29.776
We have it very strict
within our accounting.

01:05:31.216 --> 01:05:34.226
Rupert Isaacson: if you're a horse
nerd, and if you're on this podcast,

01:05:34.626 --> 01:05:39.526
I'm guessing you are, then you've
probably also always wondered a little

01:05:39.526 --> 01:05:41.776
bit about the old master system.

01:05:42.241 --> 01:05:43.551
of dressage training.

01:05:43.591 --> 01:05:52.161
If you go and check out our Helios Harmony
program, we outline there step by step

01:05:52.231 --> 01:05:58.511
exactly how to train your horse from
the ground to become the dressage horse

01:05:58.521 --> 01:06:05.041
of your dreams in a way that absolutely
serves the physical, mental and emotional

01:06:05.091 --> 01:06:07.861
well being of the horse and the rider.

01:06:07.921 --> 01:06:08.661
Intrigued?

01:06:08.861 --> 01:06:09.721
Like to know more?

01:06:10.591 --> 01:06:13.421
Go to our website, Helios Harmony.

01:06:15.121 --> 01:06:16.811
Check out the free introduction course.

01:06:17.371 --> 01:06:17.891
Take it from there.

01:06:18.395 --> 01:06:19.145
Okay.

01:06:19.925 --> 01:06:20.495
So.

01:06:21.965 --> 01:06:23.585
The auctions.

01:06:23.975 --> 01:06:24.215
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:06:24.575 --> 01:06:25.835
Rupert Isaacson: Where are they held?

01:06:27.245 --> 01:06:28.085
Christine Doran: There's different places.

01:06:28.085 --> 01:06:28.685
Rupert Isaacson: County have one.

01:06:28.775 --> 01:06:29.855
Do they run by counties?

01:06:29.855 --> 01:06:31.805
Are they run by private companies?

01:06:31.805 --> 01:06:32.525
How does it work?

01:06:32.585 --> 01:06:36.365
Christine Doran: A lot of 'em are private,
that there's just auctioneers and then

01:06:36.365 --> 01:06:41.765
some of 'em they have like, there's one
in Indiana where it's known as the kill

01:06:41.765 --> 01:06:47.315
pen auction or just auction horses where
people will put, like just the regular

01:06:47.315 --> 01:06:50.855
auction people will put like a certain
bid that they have to meet on a horse.

01:06:51.005 --> 01:06:51.095
Right.

01:06:51.425 --> 01:06:52.445
You know, things like that.

01:06:52.705 --> 01:06:57.025
The kill pen horses, you can see
they, most of 'em look horrible.

01:06:57.355 --> 01:07:03.805
Though I have gotten really good horses
that I did not have to do much with

01:07:04.225 --> 01:07:07.615
and they ended up in the kill him,
that I don't think people realize

01:07:07.615 --> 01:07:10.225
that when you just give away a horse.

01:07:11.560 --> 01:07:13.570
And you are not knowing
where that's going to.

01:07:13.570 --> 01:07:16.270
If you, if you're gonna give away
a horse, if you're gonna, you know,

01:07:16.270 --> 01:07:17.860
let a horse go for cheap whatever.

01:07:18.250 --> 01:07:20.890
If you don't have a buyback contract,
if you're not using a rescue

01:07:20.890 --> 01:07:23.440
to do that, that will actually
take the time to check in again.

01:07:24.520 --> 01:07:26.080
You don't know where
that horse will end up.

01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:27.610
We had something like that.

01:07:27.660 --> 01:07:31.780
Recently, my farrier, he was given this
thoroughbred 'cause he works at the track

01:07:32.170 --> 01:07:36.430
and he was gonna retrain it and stuff.

01:07:36.430 --> 01:07:38.890
And some girl said, Hey,
do you wanna swap horses?

01:07:38.890 --> 01:07:40.690
I really like the coloring of this one.

01:07:40.690 --> 01:07:42.670
And do you wanna, and he said,
yeah, I mean, if you've got one

01:07:42.670 --> 01:07:43.930
that's already broke, I'll swap you.

01:07:44.380 --> 01:07:47.170
Well then he got called up by
like the board of the racetrack.

01:07:47.530 --> 01:07:48.515
He goes, that horse ended up at.

01:07:50.335 --> 01:07:51.505
And it's chipped.

01:07:51.505 --> 01:07:53.905
So when they scanned it and
they were like, why did one

01:07:53.905 --> 01:07:55.405
of our horses end up here?

01:07:55.675 --> 01:07:58.345
So he almost got in huge trouble
and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:07:58.345 --> 01:07:59.335
I just traded.

01:07:59.425 --> 01:08:01.765
I had no idea this girl
was gonna do anything.

01:08:01.765 --> 01:08:01.825
Wow.

01:08:02.515 --> 01:08:05.395
And it's, it's just such a
common thing that even my

01:08:05.395 --> 01:08:07.435
farrier is like, what the hell?

01:08:07.525 --> 01:08:09.505
I didn't know that this existed so much.

01:08:09.805 --> 01:08:12.415
And I said, when are you gonna learn
If you have a horse that you need

01:08:12.415 --> 01:08:14.485
to like get rid of, give it to me.

01:08:14.725 --> 01:08:15.415
I promise you I'll

01:08:15.415 --> 01:08:18.055
Rupert Isaacson: find It's so funny
that I'm, I'm so used to, we're so

01:08:18.055 --> 01:08:22.135
used to horse people being so obsessed
with the welfare of their horses.

01:08:22.450 --> 01:08:22.610
Yeah.

01:08:22.665 --> 01:08:26.955
We all are that I think we
just can't imagine this.

01:08:27.105 --> 01:08:30.255
And it's funny, when I was a boy
growing up, we, we would have e each

01:08:30.255 --> 01:08:34.365
market town, and it still happens in
the uk, would have a horse auction.

01:08:34.735 --> 01:08:39.535
Melton Berry was the closest one to me,
so we'd go down to Melton sales frequently

01:08:39.535 --> 01:08:41.605
because they wouldn't just sell horses.

01:08:41.935 --> 01:08:45.565
They would often, they would
have secondhand tack and live

01:08:45.595 --> 01:08:50.335
other livestock, and it was just
sort of a countryside thing.

01:08:50.845 --> 01:08:55.375
But you would sometimes go there to
scan for something that looked useful.

01:08:56.155 --> 01:09:02.275
But I do remember often seeing
horses that were like, there's no

01:09:02.275 --> 01:09:05.545
way this horse isn't, you know,
like, who's gonna take this horse?

01:09:05.785 --> 01:09:08.575
So I presume the meat men
must have been buying, but it

01:09:08.575 --> 01:09:10.105
wasn't overtly talked about.

01:09:10.175 --> 01:09:13.445
Even when you were walking around
those sails, people wouldn't

01:09:13.445 --> 01:09:14.825
say, oh, those are the meat men.

01:09:14.825 --> 01:09:18.965
And they're, you know, it was
all, even if it was in plain

01:09:18.965 --> 01:09:21.395
sight, it was hidden, I suppose.

01:09:21.635 --> 01:09:23.315
Or perhaps we were willfully blind.

01:09:23.315 --> 01:09:23.945
I don't know.

01:09:24.305 --> 01:09:26.525
Is it, is that basically how it is then in

01:09:27.485 --> 01:09:29.165
Christine Doran: Yeah, I don't
think, I think you're right.

01:09:29.165 --> 01:09:31.690
I think people don't even wanna imagine
that something like that could happen.

01:09:32.630 --> 01:09:35.420
And yet it happens at such a regular rate.

01:09:35.420 --> 01:09:41.210
That last year alone, we took
in 25 horses that, that were

01:09:41.210 --> 01:09:43.310
just in horrible conditions,

01:09:43.730 --> 01:09:43.970
Rupert Isaacson: you know?

01:09:43.970 --> 01:09:52.220
And it is so weird that we have no problem
with raising any other livestock for meat.

01:09:52.580 --> 01:09:57.200
And in fact, people who, so let's
say someone raises beef cattle and

01:09:57.260 --> 01:09:59.600
they could be all free range pigs.

01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:01.550
Like real pride in

01:10:01.610 --> 01:10:01.850
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:10:01.850 --> 01:10:04.010
Rupert Isaacson: And we would all
consider, oh, that person treats his

01:10:04.010 --> 01:10:08.570
animals so well, the moment that person
would be raising horses for meat.

01:10:08.600 --> 01:10:08.660
Yeah.

01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:12.560
In the same way, even if the horses were
so well cared for and looked fabulous,

01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:13.970
we would censor it, wouldn't we?

01:10:13.970 --> 01:10:15.260
We would say that's beyond the fail.

01:10:15.260 --> 01:10:15.650
Yeah, absolutely.

01:10:15.830 --> 01:10:18.440
Because culturally that, but,
but you know, it's so weird.

01:10:18.440 --> 01:10:21.650
When I was in Mongolia, I
totally ate horse because Yeah.

01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:24.550
People, if a horse dies, they're
not gonna out there on the step.

01:10:24.550 --> 01:10:25.270
You're not gonna eat it.

01:10:25.270 --> 01:10:28.240
Of course you gonna eats waste and
you're gonna wear it and you're gonna.

01:10:28.900 --> 01:10:29.440
Yeah.

01:10:29.440 --> 01:10:31.840
You know, it's, it is gonna become
your tent, it's gonna become your

01:10:31.840 --> 01:10:34.210
boots, it's gonna become everything.

01:10:34.330 --> 01:10:37.030
And it changed my attitude
that way a little bit.

01:10:37.090 --> 01:10:37.270
Yeah.

01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:42.280
But it, but it doesn't negate the welfare.

01:10:42.820 --> 01:10:46.570
Those mongolians out on that step are
looking after their horses very well.

01:10:46.570 --> 01:10:48.460
When it's time for them to
go, it's time for them to go.

01:10:48.610 --> 01:10:51.400
They don't have someone who
can conveniently show up with

01:10:51.400 --> 01:10:53.285
a back home and take that away.

01:10:53.285 --> 01:10:53.365
Yeah.

01:10:53.365 --> 01:10:55.900
Christine Doran: And I think that people,
they don't wanna think about what happens

01:10:55.900 --> 01:10:57.310
to the horse after they're done with it.

01:10:57.370 --> 01:11:00.640
Where I find like, here they
really, really love horses.

01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:03.040
And then it gets to a point where
it can't do something for them.

01:11:04.120 --> 01:11:07.210
Rupert Isaacson: Well, you know,
you know what the, the, the, the old

01:11:07.210 --> 01:11:09.700
way for the English fox hunters, and
actually it's still that way, I think

01:11:09.700 --> 01:11:11.590
in, in among the Americans as well.

01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:14.290
What our, what we all used to
do in that culture was when a

01:11:14.290 --> 01:11:15.910
horse, it was their time to go.

01:11:15.910 --> 01:11:15.970
Yeah.

01:11:16.210 --> 01:11:20.650
The person who would come around and put
the horse down always came from the local

01:11:20.650 --> 01:11:25.390
hunt kennels, and they would take the
horse carcass and feed it to the hound.

01:11:25.510 --> 01:11:26.290
However.

01:11:27.160 --> 01:11:29.470
It was put down in the
most humane possible way.

01:11:29.470 --> 01:11:30.550
It was done at home.

01:11:30.820 --> 01:11:34.150
It was, there was no
transportation involved, no stress.

01:11:34.390 --> 01:11:38.470
The horse had its face in a,
you know, big thing of mash.

01:11:38.470 --> 01:11:40.690
People were crying, saying
goodbye to the horse.

01:11:40.690 --> 01:11:44.350
The horse was now 30 years old, you
know, and doddering and time to go.

01:11:44.350 --> 01:11:48.250
And now it would be a lethal injection
and the, and the meat is toxic.

01:11:48.250 --> 01:11:49.330
You couldn't feed it to anyone.

01:11:49.330 --> 01:11:54.490
It has to be incinerated, but
it was actually a humane system.

01:11:54.490 --> 01:11:56.170
And I think it does still go on that way.

01:11:56.170 --> 01:12:00.250
So it's very, but there was no abuse
of the horse leading up to that point.

01:12:00.250 --> 01:12:06.150
I guess that is the, the thing, when
I saw those two horses, so, yeah.

01:12:06.150 --> 01:12:07.050
Listeners and viewers.

01:12:07.110 --> 01:12:12.570
I, the first time I went to Christine's,
it was such an eyeopener for me because

01:12:12.570 --> 01:12:14.400
you had, you'd just taken in two horses.

01:12:14.730 --> 01:12:14.850
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:12:14.850 --> 01:12:15.750
Wellow and River.

01:12:15.750 --> 01:12:16.020
Yep.

01:12:16.605 --> 01:12:20.055
Rupert Isaacson: I got to see them
luckily again eight months later or so.

01:12:20.565 --> 01:12:20.865
Yeah.

01:12:20.865 --> 01:12:20.875
Yeah.

01:12:20.875 --> 01:12:21.060
They're

01:12:21.060 --> 01:12:21.340
Christine Doran: doing great.

01:12:21.400 --> 01:12:23.475
Rupert Isaacson: And they're
looking, you know, really good.

01:12:23.475 --> 01:12:23.535
Yeah.

01:12:23.865 --> 01:12:27.165
But my god, my jaw dropped
and I hadn't seen a horse.

01:12:27.165 --> 01:12:28.665
I, I lived in India for a while.

01:12:29.565 --> 01:12:31.095
There are street horses there.

01:12:31.325 --> 01:12:32.855
You want to see a starving horse?

01:12:32.855 --> 01:12:33.425
You, you know.

01:12:33.485 --> 01:12:33.725
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:12:33.955 --> 01:12:37.795
Rupert Isaacson: And I hadn't seen
anything like that since then.

01:12:37.795 --> 01:12:39.175
And I was just like, whoa.

01:12:39.175 --> 01:12:42.925
This happens in, not just in
America, but in Midwestern America

01:12:42.925 --> 01:12:43.945
where there's like a lot of grass.

01:12:43.945 --> 01:12:45.295
Remember we had that conversation.

01:12:45.655 --> 01:12:45.815
Lot of, gosh.

01:12:45.815 --> 01:12:49.255
I was like, you have to try quite
hard actually to starve a horse.

01:12:49.255 --> 01:12:49.375
Mm-hmm.

01:12:49.615 --> 01:12:56.065
Outside of like January, because
grass grows like everywhere.

01:12:56.125 --> 01:12:57.085
Christine Doran: You know what I find?

01:12:57.085 --> 01:13:00.115
There's this weird thing here in
Illinois when I first moved here

01:13:00.115 --> 01:13:01.795
and I was looking for pasture board.

01:13:02.215 --> 01:13:02.575
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:08.110
Christine Doran: The woman that I called
said, you do know it gets cold here.

01:13:08.200 --> 01:13:08.710
Right.

01:13:08.770 --> 01:13:11.290
And I was like, you do know
there are horses, right?

01:13:12.310 --> 01:13:12.760
You do not.

01:13:13.270 --> 01:13:19.220
There's, there's something in Illinois
that's and not everyone, but I find that

01:13:19.220 --> 01:13:23.870
this state truly likes to treat their
horses like puppy dogs or something,

01:13:23.990 --> 01:13:26.420
that they keep them stalled a lot.

01:13:27.200 --> 01:13:28.820
They only go out on nice days.

01:13:28.820 --> 01:13:30.740
There's not this big thing into grazing.

01:13:31.070 --> 01:13:35.600
So there's this abundance of grass, but
they mostly keep the horses stalled.

01:13:36.320 --> 01:13:36.740
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:13:36.740 --> 01:13:40.940
But those people, they might, we might,
might not be happy with them stalling

01:13:40.940 --> 01:13:46.760
their horses so much or whatever, but the
horses are well fed to starve a horse.

01:13:46.850 --> 01:13:46.910
Yeah.

01:13:46.910 --> 01:13:48.740
In Illinois is tough.

01:13:48.740 --> 01:13:48.890
Right?

01:13:49.065 --> 01:13:49.445
It happens.

01:13:49.445 --> 01:13:51.050
You just have to lock it in a shed, right?

01:13:51.560 --> 01:13:51.860
Christine Doran: Yes.

01:13:51.920 --> 01:13:52.110
No.

01:13:52.110 --> 01:13:54.165
They, they, they leave it
in a stall like we had.

01:13:54.165 --> 01:13:57.945
So Leo and river and Willow, who you saw

01:13:57.975 --> 01:13:58.065
mm-hmm.

01:13:58.395 --> 01:14:00.285
There were four horses on that property.

01:14:00.870 --> 01:14:05.220
And the owner kept two of the
horses in the barn and fed them.

01:14:06.060 --> 01:14:11.010
And then Willow and river were
kept in an outdoor pen that people

01:14:11.010 --> 01:14:12.540
were like renting the land from.

01:14:12.570 --> 01:14:18.960
And that owner walked by every single day
and saw these horses literally starving

01:14:18.960 --> 01:14:22.920
to death and chose to keep feeding his
horses and not say anything to those

01:14:22.920 --> 01:14:26.820
people because he was getting a little
bit of money each month to rent his land.

01:14:29.010 --> 01:14:30.240
Rupert Isaacson: How did that end up?

01:14:30.330 --> 01:14:33.360
How did he end up
getting, I guess, busted?

01:14:34.350 --> 01:14:38.640
Christine Doran: There was a camper fire
on the property, and there is a law that

01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:41.670
whenever there is a fire, the sheriff's
department has to show up in case there

01:14:41.670 --> 01:14:44.280
was arson and it was clearly not arson.

01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:48.900
And the sheriff was just being nosy
and shining his flashlight and spotted

01:14:48.900 --> 01:14:50.970
the two horses, and we got called.

01:14:51.570 --> 01:14:51.960
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,

01:14:52.200 --> 01:14:52.680
Christine Doran: so it was,

01:14:53.100 --> 01:14:53.460
Rupert Isaacson: what happened?

01:14:53.460 --> 01:14:54.000
What happened to the guy?

01:14:54.780 --> 01:14:56.370
Christine Doran: The owner got nothing.

01:14:56.985 --> 01:15:00.285
And then the two, there was two
different men that owned each horse.

01:15:00.675 --> 01:15:05.085
The, the owner of River who
was extremely emaciated.

01:15:05.445 --> 01:15:05.505
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:15:05.505 --> 01:15:05.745
I remember

01:15:05.745 --> 01:15:07.155
Christine Doran: he got
a slap on the wrist.

01:15:07.645 --> 01:15:10.435
And then the owner of the
mayor didn't get anything.

01:15:10.945 --> 01:15:14.065
And the owner, and I don't think
what the courts understand is the

01:15:14.065 --> 01:15:18.085
only reason why that Marere was in
better shape is she was the alpha.

01:15:18.625 --> 01:15:20.935
So she got more food, she
pushed him away from it.

01:15:20.935 --> 01:15:20.995
Hmm.

01:15:21.415 --> 01:15:26.755
So he got off simply because his horse
was shooing the other horse off of food.

01:15:27.205 --> 01:15:32.005
But it's very aggravating because the
laws are not for the animals at all.

01:15:33.715 --> 01:15:35.125
Rupert Isaacson: How often
do you get a call like that?

01:15:36.445 --> 01:15:41.815
Christine Doran: Well last year I
think about over half of our horses,

01:15:41.845 --> 01:15:44.035
out of the 25 were extreme calls.

01:15:46.105 --> 01:15:48.415
Rupert Isaacson: And how many of those
horses make it into your program?

01:15:49.705 --> 01:15:54.115
Christine Doran: So we kept, I
think about six of 'em right now.

01:15:54.145 --> 01:15:56.815
'cause our program's growing
now that we're teaching.

01:15:57.115 --> 01:15:57.205
Yeah.

01:15:57.205 --> 01:16:00.445
You know, learning to keen and
really growing, we wanna not start

01:16:00.445 --> 01:16:02.155
over of rehabbing a horse mm-hmm.

01:16:02.395 --> 01:16:03.265
Let alone training it.

01:16:03.270 --> 01:16:03.620
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:16:03.705 --> 01:16:05.965
Christine Doran: So we're holding
onto some of the horses, but

01:16:05.965 --> 01:16:06.985
we don't have a lot of land.

01:16:06.990 --> 01:16:07.340
Mm-hmm.

01:16:07.525 --> 01:16:11.695
So I really believe in being
responsible that we have to be horse

01:16:11.695 --> 01:16:13.135
helpers and not horse hoarders.

01:16:13.140 --> 01:16:13.420
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:16:13.600 --> 01:16:16.845
Christine Doran: So, it'll be 11 years
in March that we've been doing this

01:16:16.845 --> 01:16:19.305
and we've rescued over 125 horses.

01:16:20.475 --> 01:16:24.045
Rupert Isaacson: And how
do you manage to then?

01:16:24.945 --> 01:16:28.905
Or can you, is it, is it even humanly
possible to ensure that they don't

01:16:28.905 --> 01:16:30.135
end up in the same place again?

01:16:30.685 --> 01:16:31.885
Christine Doran: So we're
pretty strict about it.

01:16:31.945 --> 01:16:34.285
We try to make it not where
it's impossible to get a horse.

01:16:34.535 --> 01:16:39.455
But we find that because we are so
open and honest about the horse's

01:16:39.455 --> 01:16:41.135
abilities, we don't lie about anything.

01:16:41.720 --> 01:16:43.610
That there are no white lies.

01:16:43.610 --> 01:16:46.580
And I find that a lot of organizations
just to try and keep helping

01:16:46.580 --> 01:16:48.500
animals, they try and get 'em out.

01:16:48.590 --> 01:16:54.290
But yeah, my thought process is if I
lie, even one small lie, that horse has

01:16:54.290 --> 01:16:56.780
the potential to end up back into this.

01:16:56.990 --> 01:16:57.050
Yeah.

01:16:57.050 --> 01:17:00.230
And so all of the horses that we
have adopted out, we still stay

01:17:00.230 --> 01:17:01.460
in contact with the families.

01:17:01.460 --> 01:17:02.720
They become like family to us.

01:17:02.780 --> 01:17:05.060
Rupert Isaacson: How do you find,
how do you find it, the people to

01:17:05.060 --> 01:17:06.470
adopt them out to It can't be easy.

01:17:07.040 --> 01:17:09.380
Christine Doran: Social media
has been our best friend that

01:17:09.380 --> 01:17:10.790
we have a very good following.

01:17:11.240 --> 01:17:17.150
And I think because my reputation
holds in a world where the

01:17:17.150 --> 01:17:18.770
horse industry is just known.

01:17:18.770 --> 01:17:20.810
I don't know if it's like
this over where you are, but.

01:17:21.890 --> 01:17:23.960
The biggest liars I've ever
met have been horse people.

01:17:24.590 --> 01:17:28.580
I always say there is no, there
is no gray in the horse world.

01:17:28.730 --> 01:17:29.510
It's black and white.

01:17:29.660 --> 01:17:31.520
You either have really good people

01:17:31.545 --> 01:17:31.835
Yeah.

01:17:31.910 --> 01:17:35.870
That have just very good souls,
or you have the worst people

01:17:35.870 --> 01:17:37.040
that you will ever encounter.

01:17:37.430 --> 01:17:41.780
And so if you think that they're the
best people, and months later they

01:17:41.780 --> 01:17:45.170
say something that just hits your
soul the wrong way, know that there

01:17:45.170 --> 01:17:49.880
is something dark and nasty underneath
there that I've never found a gray spot.

01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:50.995
Rupert Isaacson: Maybe it's the TBIs.

01:17:51.635 --> 01:17:52.315
Christine Doran: Maybe it's the TBIs.

01:17:52.320 --> 01:17:52.970
There's no gray.

01:17:53.060 --> 01:17:53.660
There's no gray.

01:17:53.750 --> 01:17:54.170
I have found

01:17:54.175 --> 01:17:54.355
Rupert Isaacson: no gray.

01:17:54.375 --> 01:17:54.795
Okay.

01:17:54.795 --> 01:17:58.455
So, so it's, it's, it's astonishing.

01:17:58.545 --> 01:18:01.785
I, I take my hat off to you.

01:18:01.890 --> 01:18:02.240
Christine Doran: Thank

01:18:02.240 --> 01:18:02.320
Rupert Isaacson: you.

01:18:02.355 --> 01:18:08.055
Because it's damn hard to,
to rehome a good horse.

01:18:08.085 --> 01:18:09.105
Even a good horse.

01:18:09.585 --> 01:18:09.675
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:18:09.745 --> 01:18:12.415
Rupert Isaacson: Well, to rehome
it well, I mean, if you've got a

01:18:12.415 --> 01:18:14.935
good horse, everybody wants that
horse, but to, to make sure that

01:18:14.935 --> 01:18:16.045
it ends up where it should end up.

01:18:16.465 --> 01:18:18.325
But when horses lack.

01:18:18.955 --> 01:18:23.125
Physical ability or you know,
you know, they're coming with so

01:18:23.125 --> 01:18:27.595
much trauma that, you know, your
average person can't really deal.

01:18:28.135 --> 01:18:29.965
Rehoming them is not easy.

01:18:29.995 --> 01:18:30.955
It's an art.

01:18:31.675 --> 01:18:35.395
What do you think, beyond
being transparent, what do you

01:18:35.395 --> 01:18:38.845
think the art is of rehoming?

01:18:38.845 --> 01:18:40.585
The really difficult,

01:18:40.590 --> 01:18:41.320
Christine Doran: you let them heal.

01:18:41.935 --> 01:18:43.585
You get a horse that people want.

01:18:43.585 --> 01:18:46.885
They may not be able to do
everything that they, you know,

01:18:46.885 --> 01:18:48.325
some people just wanna pasture puff.

01:18:48.325 --> 01:18:48.865
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:18:49.105 --> 01:18:50.905
Christine Doran: But I find that.

01:18:51.535 --> 01:18:56.965
By first, you know, rehabbing of
getting their, their body back and

01:18:56.965 --> 01:18:58.915
then putting them out with my horses.

01:18:59.095 --> 01:19:02.575
Kind of like how horse boy you
learn through osmosis, you know?

01:19:02.580 --> 01:19:02.710
Mm-hmm.

01:19:02.935 --> 01:19:05.635
That I'm doing that with my
horses and I'm letting them

01:19:05.635 --> 01:19:07.285
learn through the other horses.

01:19:07.735 --> 01:19:07.765
Mm.

01:19:07.765 --> 01:19:10.525
That they get to see how to
interact with one another, but

01:19:10.525 --> 01:19:12.385
also how to interact with humans.

01:19:12.655 --> 01:19:16.645
And so I don't even try to jump
in and say, you should trust me.

01:19:16.645 --> 01:19:17.455
I'm a good person.

01:19:17.455 --> 01:19:17.545
Right.

01:19:18.025 --> 01:19:18.265
No.

01:19:18.865 --> 01:19:23.425
I let them see that I'm a good person
by interacting with my other horses, and

01:19:23.425 --> 01:19:25.135
then we start building on from there.

01:19:25.615 --> 01:19:25.915
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:19:25.915 --> 01:19:29.425
But what about the ones that have like
really come with the just big physical

01:19:29.425 --> 01:19:31.285
issues after what they've gone through had

01:19:31.530 --> 01:19:35.395
Christine Doran: so, so like physical
issues, like they're hobbling or like that

01:19:35.395 --> 01:19:35.935
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, like that.

01:19:35.935 --> 01:19:38.755
There'll just never be sound again that,
you know, they can't be a riding horse.

01:19:38.755 --> 01:19:40.765
They can't really even be
that much of a working horse.

01:19:40.945 --> 01:19:41.215
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:19:41.215 --> 01:19:45.085
I tend to usually find them with
like retired people who don't

01:19:45.085 --> 01:19:48.625
wanna ride anymore, but they
wanna brush and love on a horse.

01:19:48.625 --> 01:19:49.150
Rupert Isaacson: They want something,

01:19:49.150 --> 01:19:49.630
something

01:19:49.630 --> 01:19:49.790
Rupert Isaacson: to love.

01:19:50.470 --> 01:19:53.140
Christine Doran: I have found that
I've been extremely successful at

01:19:53.140 --> 01:19:54.880
rehoming horses who can never be ridden.

01:19:55.870 --> 01:19:59.320
Rupert Isaacson: Do you, do you mentor
other people who are starting rescues?

01:19:59.320 --> 01:20:03.100
Because this sounds unusually.

01:20:04.525 --> 01:20:05.845
Effective what you're doing.

01:20:06.205 --> 01:20:09.040
Christine Doran: I don't, but
I love the idea because so many

01:20:09.040 --> 01:20:09.520
Rupert Isaacson: I think you should.

01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:10.000
I think you should.

01:20:10.005 --> 01:20:11.575
Christine Doran: So should
many people tell me that I

01:20:11.575 --> 01:20:12.985
should just put horses down?

01:20:13.015 --> 01:20:16.465
That they come in like, toast, who
was gonna be our school master horse

01:20:16.465 --> 01:20:17.065
Rupert Isaacson: because he was

01:20:17.070 --> 01:20:17.290
Christine Doran: toast.

01:20:18.445 --> 01:20:18.865
Toasted.

01:20:18.865 --> 01:20:19.525
Marshmallow.

01:20:19.585 --> 01:20:22.555
The love that he came from
auction for slaughter.

01:20:22.825 --> 01:20:24.595
He was over 400 pounds underweight.

01:20:24.595 --> 01:20:24.655
Hmm.

01:20:25.115 --> 01:20:26.795
He had a massive viral infection.

01:20:26.825 --> 01:20:32.115
His feet looked like dinner plates
when we got him, and he had been beaten

01:20:32.115 --> 01:20:37.155
so severely that he no longer had a
flight response, but a fight response.

01:20:37.455 --> 01:20:37.545
Hmm.

01:20:37.545 --> 01:20:41.475
And when I got him, I was pregnant
with my second and I couldn't even

01:20:41.505 --> 01:20:44.955
work with him because when you walked
into the pen, he tried to kill you.

01:20:45.075 --> 01:20:47.235
I mean, it was just flat out,
you had a horse in there who

01:20:47.235 --> 01:20:49.155
was ready to take someone out.

01:20:49.815 --> 01:20:53.685
And we said, okay, well
let's just feed him.

01:20:54.435 --> 01:20:56.205
And let his wounds heal.

01:20:56.415 --> 01:20:58.275
He had a huge knot on his forehead.

01:20:58.675 --> 01:21:02.515
We see that time and time again,
unfortunately, and it's when people are

01:21:02.515 --> 01:21:06.355
riding and they don't like what the horse
is doing, they take a two by four and they

01:21:06.355 --> 01:21:07.705
hit them in the head while they're riding.

01:21:08.485 --> 01:21:10.765
I mean, it's just things that
you don't, you feel like, oh my

01:21:10.765 --> 01:21:11.935
gosh, that could never happen.

01:21:12.025 --> 01:21:13.855
And yet I've seen it multiple times.

01:21:14.245 --> 01:21:17.035
And so of course he didn't trust people.

01:21:17.065 --> 01:21:18.295
Of course he wanted to kill them.

01:21:18.775 --> 01:21:23.965
And because we take it slow and we
allow, and truly, I can't take all the

01:21:23.965 --> 01:21:29.125
credit for toast because toast really
changed because of a little five-year-old

01:21:29.125 --> 01:21:34.585
nonverbal boy who would go up to his
stall door and would shake it like hell

01:21:35.665 --> 01:21:39.985
while toast out his butt to him because
he felt he was just drawn to toast.

01:21:40.285 --> 01:21:45.955
And toast every single time, would turn
around, put his head over the gate, and

01:21:45.955 --> 01:21:47.605
would give kisses to this little boy.

01:21:49.195 --> 01:21:53.065
And it was that child that made
that horse, not me, but that child.

01:21:53.455 --> 01:21:55.825
That told that horse that there
are good people out there.

01:21:56.995 --> 01:22:00.925
Rupert Isaacson: It's so interesting, the,
yeah, I remember when my, obviously when

01:22:00.925 --> 01:22:04.225
my son and Betsy made their connection.

01:22:04.225 --> 01:22:08.935
I remember looking at that direct
line between that little nonverbal

01:22:08.935 --> 01:22:14.185
autistic boy and that horse and going,
I really thought I knew about horses.

01:22:15.745 --> 01:22:18.565
I know a very little bit about horses.

01:22:18.595 --> 01:22:18.895
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:22:18.965 --> 01:22:20.945
And I really felt like I
had a handle on things.

01:22:20.945 --> 01:22:25.445
And then you came in last
March and I, I wasn't sure.

01:22:25.445 --> 01:22:32.285
I was like, okay, I am, I'm all for new
experiences, but I also am very particular

01:22:32.285 --> 01:22:33.605
about how my horses are treated.

01:22:34.145 --> 01:22:38.435
That I, when you were talking about
bits and I don't use bits, and I was

01:22:38.435 --> 01:22:41.105
like, okay, well what kind of bit are
you gonna use and what are you gonna do?

01:22:41.165 --> 01:22:45.995
You know, I was, I was very on edge
about it, but I had this big talk

01:22:45.995 --> 01:22:49.955
with you and saying, listen, I chew
everything that someone has to.

01:22:51.035 --> 01:22:53.375
And then I will decide if I'm
gonna spit it out or swallow it.

01:22:53.975 --> 01:22:59.135
And you really went through and spoke
with me about how important it's for

01:22:59.135 --> 01:23:04.565
you that horses are well taken care of
and that they're a priority in this.

01:23:04.805 --> 01:23:11.975
And when you came out and you were
working with Missy, Missy is a a very

01:23:11.975 --> 01:23:16.145
unique being where if she does not
like you and you keep pushing her,

01:23:16.145 --> 01:23:21.125
when she says, I need a moment, you are
gonna see a major reaction out of her.

01:23:21.545 --> 01:23:26.645
And yet the moment that she even
started to say, I don't like this.

01:23:26.645 --> 01:23:29.015
Something feels wrong with
this, you stopped and you said,

01:23:29.045 --> 01:23:30.095
oh, you're such a good pony.

01:23:30.095 --> 01:23:31.115
Give yourself a moment.

01:23:31.115 --> 01:23:33.785
Take that in, let that
register of what we're doing.

01:23:34.085 --> 01:23:37.505
And it made me go, okay, this
is someone I could follow.

01:23:38.165 --> 01:23:39.605
This is someone I could learn from.

01:23:39.905 --> 01:23:44.045
And what's been so beautiful
with it is that by us taking.

01:23:44.585 --> 01:23:48.305
You know, I, I'm now horse boy
one, we did movement method

01:23:48.305 --> 01:23:51.545
certifications and now we're into
our second certification with Teke.

01:23:51.965 --> 01:23:59.015
But just since last March, changing how
I work with my students and really doing

01:23:59.015 --> 01:24:04.595
Follow the Child and mirroring them, that
one of our kids in our program who has

01:24:04.595 --> 01:24:08.705
been with me for a couple of years and
used to be so dysregulated that coming

01:24:08.705 --> 01:24:13.415
to the ranch wasn't a fun thing for him,
that we started using your tactics and

01:24:13.415 --> 01:24:19.505
suddenly he's laughing and he's smiling
and he wouldn't stay on a horse, and

01:24:19.505 --> 01:24:21.755
now he doesn't wanna get off the horse.

01:24:22.145 --> 01:24:27.005
And he went from not using his talker
and not using sign language to, he

01:24:27.005 --> 01:24:30.035
said his first word since he was two.

01:24:30.125 --> 01:24:31.925
The last word he ever said was Daddy.

01:24:32.255 --> 01:24:33.335
And he said, go.

01:24:34.205 --> 01:24:39.005
And the parents are crying
and we're just completely.

01:24:39.530 --> 01:24:40.640
So happy for him.

01:24:40.910 --> 01:24:45.350
But not only is it happening at the ranch
now, he's now using the talker and he's

01:24:45.350 --> 01:24:49.640
now using sign language off the ranch
in school, at home that we're seeing

01:24:49.640 --> 01:24:51.590
what you were talking about with us.

01:24:51.860 --> 01:24:55.700
And it's just so cool to go, man,
we haven't even dived deep enough

01:24:55.700 --> 01:24:59.360
into this yet, that if we're already
having these results, imagine what

01:24:59.360 --> 01:25:00.710
we're gonna be like in three years.

01:25:01.370 --> 01:25:03.530
It's such an amazing
phase for us to be in.

01:25:04.070 --> 01:25:10.130
Rupert Isaacson: You're kind, you know,
if I owe it all to Temple grandad who

01:25:10.130 --> 01:25:13.760
mentored me and told me, yeah, follow the
child and what follow the child meant,

01:25:14.690 --> 01:25:23.540
and obviously to my son and Betsy for
showing me that radical transformation.

01:25:24.260 --> 01:25:28.700
And then obviously finding out from
neuroscientists why that radical

01:25:28.700 --> 01:25:29.810
transformation had happened.

01:25:29.810 --> 01:25:30.110
But

01:25:30.115 --> 01:25:30.245
Christine Doran: yeah,

01:25:30.830 --> 01:25:33.260
Rupert Isaacson: I can't
really claim credit.

01:25:33.530 --> 01:25:34.670
But I am.

01:25:35.525 --> 01:25:37.325
'cause I'm really just a vessel of

01:25:37.565 --> 01:25:37.715
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:25:37.985 --> 01:25:42.245
Rupert Isaacson: That energy,
that approach I suppose.

01:25:42.755 --> 01:25:50.315
But what I am so glad of is I could
not have imagined when I was standing

01:25:50.315 --> 01:25:59.135
in a field 20 years ago with my son
lost and not knowing what to do.

01:26:00.635 --> 01:26:06.005
I couldn't possibly have imagined that
20 years on there would be hundreds of

01:26:06.005 --> 01:26:07.625
thousands of people around the world.

01:26:08.045 --> 01:26:08.105
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:26:08.135 --> 01:26:12.935
Rupert Isaacson: Basically getting
what my son got and making the

01:26:13.205 --> 01:26:16.295
same improvements that my son made.

01:26:17.225 --> 01:26:24.215
And so I'm just really honored that you
gave me the time of day because for,

01:26:24.245 --> 01:26:32.255
for, for my mission, it's, I happen
to be uniquely positioned in that.

01:26:32.870 --> 01:26:34.820
I'm a journalist, so I
kind of ask questions.

01:26:34.820 --> 01:26:39.570
So it was a natural for me to say, I
will seek out a mentor who's that mentor?

01:26:39.570 --> 01:26:41.130
And that's how I came
up with Temple Grandad.

01:26:41.490 --> 01:26:44.480
But also you know, I had horse skills.

01:26:45.090 --> 01:26:48.480
I was living in the country, so
although I was broke and I happened

01:26:48.480 --> 01:26:52.080
to have this really good neighbor
who, that's why it makes so much

01:26:52.110 --> 01:26:56.040
emphasis on Tribe, who's the complete
opposite political spectrum to me.

01:26:56.880 --> 01:26:57.030
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:26:57.030 --> 01:26:58.800
Rupert Isaacson: And we just
liked each other anyway.

01:26:58.830 --> 01:26:59.640
We didn't care.

01:27:00.270 --> 01:27:02.070
And that's kind of how it used to be.

01:27:02.070 --> 01:27:04.140
It's getting more polarized
now as we know, but

01:27:04.320 --> 01:27:04.440
Christine Doran: yeah.

01:27:04.690 --> 01:27:08.560
Rupert Isaacson: And we need to get back
to that because that little autistic

01:27:08.560 --> 01:27:11.230
boy doesn't care who you vote for.

01:27:11.380 --> 01:27:13.600
That horse doesn't care who you vote for.

01:27:13.695 --> 01:27:14.115
Mm-hmm.

01:27:14.200 --> 01:27:18.880
That suffering person doesn't, you know,
it, it, all of that's really irrelevant.

01:27:18.885 --> 01:27:19.795
That's irrelevant.

01:27:19.930 --> 01:27:21.190
Monkey stuff, you know?

01:27:21.610 --> 01:27:25.150
And one things I love about the
populations of people that we work with,

01:27:25.150 --> 01:27:30.430
and obviously the horses do, is they just
bring us back to exactly what's important.

01:27:31.060 --> 01:27:33.190
And that, of course is
immensely healing for us.

01:27:33.190 --> 01:27:34.990
So I, you know, it's
immensely healing for me.

01:27:34.990 --> 01:27:39.100
So when, when I came out to you, I
thought, I don't really have anything

01:27:39.130 --> 01:27:44.200
to, to, to teach this lady because I
saw how you were rehabbing these horses

01:27:44.200 --> 01:27:48.620
and I was like, man, I mean, if she just
goes right on doing this she's grand.

01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:52.910
I mean, sure there's a few tools I
can share, but honestly, you know,

01:27:52.910 --> 01:27:54.980
this is, this is really great work.

01:27:55.550 --> 01:27:57.260
I'm just, you know, honored
to have you as a colleague.

01:27:58.400 --> 01:28:00.530
Christine Doran: Well, I really
appreciate that compliment, but you

01:28:00.530 --> 01:28:05.150
know, I think it's really amazing
that what you're doing, that even our

01:28:05.150 --> 01:28:09.410
foster care program that we run where
we pair up a child and a mentor once a

01:28:09.410 --> 01:28:14.030
week with a horse, and you're able to.

01:28:14.795 --> 01:28:19.565
Do to keen with these horses and show
these kids how to do this as well.

01:28:19.895 --> 01:28:25.145
That there's so much relatability
for these children that these horses

01:28:25.175 --> 01:28:29.045
weren't taken care of, they were
abused, they were neglected, and then

01:28:29.405 --> 01:28:30.845
they got thrown out of their home.

01:28:31.205 --> 01:28:35.045
You know that they're coming
into this new spot, new place,

01:28:35.585 --> 01:28:36.755
and there's relatability there.

01:28:36.965 --> 01:28:39.755
And then we get to say to them,
oh, well this horse gets to

01:28:39.755 --> 01:28:41.225
go to a foster home next week.

01:28:42.515 --> 01:28:44.345
Oh, this horse came
back from a foster home.

01:28:44.345 --> 01:28:45.965
But did you know, it's
not the horse's fault.

01:28:46.295 --> 01:28:47.645
It just wasn't the right fit for them.

01:28:48.515 --> 01:28:49.625
We're here to find the right fit.

01:28:50.135 --> 01:28:56.195
And so it's amazing to be able to take
these rescue animals that you know, have

01:28:56.195 --> 01:29:01.175
known what love is not, and put them in a
place where there is love, and take them

01:29:01.175 --> 01:29:07.325
with children that don't know what true
unconditional love is, and then place

01:29:07.325 --> 01:29:10.955
'em with these horses and then to be able
to use to keen with it and they start

01:29:10.955 --> 01:29:13.600
rehabbing these horses with us is so cool.

01:29:14.480 --> 01:29:15.230
So cool.

01:29:15.785 --> 01:29:19.610
Rupert Isaacson: It, it was a real
revelation to me, the Teki program

01:29:20.390 --> 01:29:25.760
because it came as, you know, out
of also desperation and necessity.

01:29:26.150 --> 01:29:26.270
Yeah.

01:29:26.270 --> 01:29:30.860
Where we were running out of time
to condition our horses, you know?

01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:33.120
Because we just had so many
clients and what we gonna do.

01:29:33.120 --> 01:29:36.540
And then it was like that duh
moment, like, of course the clients

01:29:36.540 --> 01:29:37.530
should be the horse trainers.

01:29:37.530 --> 01:29:39.870
Of course, of course
they can totally do this.

01:29:39.900 --> 01:29:43.710
And probably better than us because
they, their egos aren't as involved.

01:29:44.160 --> 01:29:48.540
And it was just this immediate,
massive empowerment thing.

01:29:49.080 --> 01:29:53.760
But also it took all the stress
off me because suddenly I, I,

01:29:53.760 --> 01:29:55.350
I didn't have to do it all.

01:29:55.730 --> 01:30:00.140
And my wife, so, and I'm, I'm just
very grateful for you to bringing

01:30:00.140 --> 01:30:04.400
that into the Chicago area and, and,
and to people, you know, like that.

01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:08.060
As you were saying that about love,
it made me think back to what you said

01:30:08.060 --> 01:30:09.650
earlier in the conversation, though.

01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:14.555
I, I, I wonder if you're uniquely
positioned in this to understand about

01:30:14.555 --> 01:30:16.835
the power of, of love because you lost it.

01:30:16.835 --> 01:30:17.735
Because you lost love.

01:30:18.425 --> 01:30:18.605
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:30:18.695 --> 01:30:22.205
Rupert Isaacson: You know, maybe, I
think most of us can't imagine that.

01:30:22.895 --> 01:30:23.105
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:30:23.385 --> 01:30:27.765
Rupert Isaacson: I think that's
really outside of my can basic,

01:30:27.765 --> 01:30:29.895
universal, unconditional love.

01:30:31.365 --> 01:30:37.365
It's so much a part of me to think,
wow, if I were to lose that, it would

01:30:37.365 --> 01:30:39.705
feel like being the undead or something.

01:30:39.710 --> 01:30:39.890
Yeah.

01:30:40.875 --> 01:30:40.935
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:30:41.230 --> 01:30:41.520
It's

01:30:41.520 --> 01:30:42.080
Rupert Isaacson: a very good

01:30:42.080 --> 01:30:42.320
Christine Doran: feeling.

01:30:42.740 --> 01:30:42.960
Rupert Isaacson: It.

01:30:43.995 --> 01:30:48.825
Do you ever talk to your some of your
clients who are going through stuff like

01:30:48.825 --> 01:30:50.355
this, about, about your experiences?

01:30:50.355 --> 01:30:50.865
Do you share?

01:30:50.925 --> 01:30:51.705
Christine Doran: Absolutely.

01:30:51.855 --> 01:30:52.215
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:30:52.265 --> 01:30:54.365
Christine Doran: So we had
even volunteers and stuff.

01:30:54.365 --> 01:30:57.245
I find that a lot of volunteers
find us and they think that they're

01:30:57.245 --> 01:30:59.585
gonna be helping and instead

01:30:59.585 --> 01:31:00.395
Rupert Isaacson: they
turn out to be clients.

01:31:00.395 --> 01:31:00.695
Yes.

01:31:01.025 --> 01:31:02.135
Christine Doran: They
turn out to be clients.

01:31:02.135 --> 01:31:02.465
Right.

01:31:02.465 --> 01:31:06.215
That they get more healing out of it
because they weren't expecting anything.

01:31:06.515 --> 01:31:06.815
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:31:07.025 --> 01:31:09.905
Christine Doran: And so I've been
introduced several times to people

01:31:09.905 --> 01:31:16.385
who have recently had TBIs and
they're really struggling, the spouse

01:31:16.415 --> 01:31:18.395
and the person suffering from it.

01:31:18.875 --> 01:31:23.375
And I find that there's a level of comfort
to know that someone else has gone through

01:31:23.375 --> 01:31:28.955
that, that they've made it out to that
other end and that I don't sugarcoat it.

01:31:29.015 --> 01:31:32.345
It's hard, you know, there's,
there's a lot of pressure put on

01:31:32.345 --> 01:31:37.595
that, that other partner, I mean, my
husband is truly an incredible man

01:31:37.595 --> 01:31:39.215
to have held on when I was so cruel.

01:31:39.260 --> 01:31:44.330
You know that, to know that I could come
back, but to also be patient enough.

01:31:44.335 --> 01:31:44.450
Brave, brave.

01:31:44.450 --> 01:31:44.870
You could own it

01:31:45.200 --> 01:31:45.530
Rupert Isaacson: too.

01:31:45.530 --> 01:31:53.150
I mean, it, it, it, there must be some,
there must have been a temptation to keep

01:31:53.150 --> 01:31:55.450
that private because the shame involved.

01:31:55.450 --> 01:31:56.650
There's regret.

01:31:56.740 --> 01:31:56.800
Yeah.

01:31:56.800 --> 01:32:02.890
There's, you know, but by, by owning
it, you let everyone else own it.

01:32:03.430 --> 01:32:03.820
Who's going?

01:32:03.820 --> 01:32:04.000
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:32:04.205 --> 01:32:08.290
I think I'm very big into, I always
say that my goal with Triple H is to

01:32:08.290 --> 01:32:12.430
knock down social barriers and to make
things that are taboo at this moment,

01:32:13.060 --> 01:32:16.900
to just knock them off their rocker
and to make it a normalized thing.

01:32:17.350 --> 01:32:22.240
And so, I have been very open
about my past between, I had

01:32:22.240 --> 01:32:23.770
a brother-in-law assault me.

01:32:23.860 --> 01:32:29.560
I had the TBI and I find that when
you are open about these things.

01:32:30.175 --> 01:32:34.615
And you don't make it sound like a sh a
shameful thing because none of it works.

01:32:34.855 --> 01:32:34.945
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:32:34.945 --> 01:32:37.105
But you also don't paint
yourself as the vi as a victim.

01:32:37.105 --> 01:32:40.705
I think, I think what's so cool
about it is that you say, no,

01:32:40.705 --> 01:32:47.635
look, you know, it made me behave
really badly rather than poor me.

01:32:47.635 --> 01:32:49.375
I was sort of the hero in the story.

01:32:49.585 --> 01:32:52.795
Even though you had no choice in it,
even though by no means was your fault,

01:32:53.185 --> 01:32:57.595
I think own it's, it's the bravery
of owning that to say I was cruel.

01:32:58.855 --> 01:33:01.825
That is a really hard
and brave thing to say.

01:33:01.825 --> 01:33:03.925
I don't think you give
yourself enough credit there.

01:33:04.375 --> 01:33:05.250
Christine Doran: Well, thank you.

01:33:05.490 --> 01:33:07.015
'cause I just think you got it.

01:33:07.105 --> 01:33:08.365
You know, you have to.

01:33:09.235 --> 01:33:10.735
I want other people.

01:33:11.635 --> 01:33:13.045
Rupert Isaacson: It's kind is what it is.

01:33:13.315 --> 01:33:13.465
Yeah.

01:33:13.465 --> 01:33:14.875
It lets other people heal.

01:33:15.500 --> 01:33:16.345
Christine Doran: I, I think so.

01:33:16.465 --> 01:33:16.945
I think so.

01:33:16.945 --> 01:33:19.555
I think that that's what I
want for people though, is I

01:33:19.555 --> 01:33:20.695
don't want people to struggle.

01:33:20.695 --> 01:33:23.365
Like I've struggled and I don't
want people to be ashamed.

01:33:23.365 --> 01:33:24.415
Like I have felt shame.

01:33:24.445 --> 01:33:24.475
Mm.

01:33:24.985 --> 01:33:26.515
And so I find that.

01:33:26.905 --> 01:33:29.995
If we use our voices and, and I
always say, and I know you believe

01:33:29.995 --> 01:33:32.845
in this too with your tribes, that
the world would be a much better

01:33:32.845 --> 01:33:34.195
place if we had a community again.

01:33:34.795 --> 01:33:34.885
Mm-hmm.

01:33:34.885 --> 01:33:39.295
That if we were to take care of each other
and talk about our problems instead of

01:33:39.295 --> 01:33:41.425
just I, I have a very strict rule here.

01:33:41.755 --> 01:33:44.845
If I ask you how you're doing,
you better not say fine, because

01:33:44.845 --> 01:33:46.675
I will dive into your soul.

01:33:46.705 --> 01:33:47.695
You better believe it.

01:33:48.745 --> 01:33:50.245
Fines are not allowed here.

01:33:50.275 --> 01:33:53.875
You can either tell me that life's
great, life's just mediocre.

01:33:53.875 --> 01:33:56.095
There's some things with
work or school or whatever.

01:33:56.095 --> 01:33:59.275
Or you can sit there and say, can I
just talk in your office and you can

01:33:59.275 --> 01:34:02.725
just cry on my shoulder, but I'm not
gonna have a fine walk through my door.

01:34:05.275 --> 01:34:06.595
Rupert Isaacson: I'm thinking
about the passive aggressive.

01:34:06.685 --> 01:34:07.075
Fine.

01:34:07.075 --> 01:34:08.075
Then fine, fine.

01:34:08.185 --> 01:34:09.115
I won't say fine.

01:34:09.145 --> 01:34:09.595
Fine.

01:34:11.905 --> 01:34:12.205
So you'll find

01:34:12.205 --> 01:34:12.265
Christine Doran: me.

01:34:12.265 --> 01:34:13.315
That would be my 7-year-old.

01:34:14.755 --> 01:34:16.225
Rupert Isaacson: Tell me about your team.

01:34:16.375 --> 01:34:17.365
Tell us about your team.

01:34:17.365 --> 01:34:19.105
We've heard a bit about your equine team.

01:34:19.435 --> 01:34:20.635
Tell us about your human team.

01:34:21.250 --> 01:34:21.760
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:34:21.760 --> 01:34:26.980
So, I like to say that everyone
finds me, that people tend to say

01:34:26.980 --> 01:34:31.270
that when they walk across our
threshold, something feels different.

01:34:31.570 --> 01:34:34.060
They feel like the
outside world disappears.

01:34:34.600 --> 01:34:39.460
And so what I have found is it draws
in people that maybe no one wants

01:34:39.460 --> 01:34:43.880
to give a second chance to, or that
that they're struggling in life.

01:34:44.390 --> 01:34:50.190
And so some of our team one of our
team members has a learning disability.

01:34:50.640 --> 01:34:55.200
And when he started with me, he
had an aide that came with him

01:34:55.200 --> 01:34:58.980
from school and literally had to be
taught how to hook up a hose, how

01:34:58.980 --> 01:35:01.420
to stack hay how to do animal care.

01:35:01.660 --> 01:35:06.220
And now he's been with me for six
years, and now he has a paid job.

01:35:06.640 --> 01:35:11.380
And he gets to teach others how to
do things and when he is learning

01:35:11.380 --> 01:35:16.180
something new, because we don't hold
expectations that everyone's the same.

01:35:16.810 --> 01:35:20.500
We know that we take it and
we break it down for him.

01:35:20.560 --> 01:35:25.720
And it's not that he can't learn,
it's that society believes that he

01:35:25.720 --> 01:35:28.900
has to learn at a certain pace that
no one's giving him the chance.

01:35:29.140 --> 01:35:34.480
And yet our program has shown that he
flourishes if you just slow it down and

01:35:34.480 --> 01:35:38.890
give him a moment to grasp what he needs
to do and don't say, do you understand it?

01:35:38.950 --> 01:35:41.140
But instead say, say it back to me.

01:35:41.290 --> 01:35:42.580
What did you get out of that?

01:35:42.970 --> 01:35:45.070
You're able to see what he
comprehended and what he didn't.

01:35:45.670 --> 01:35:48.850
We've had multiple people
come through with addiction.

01:35:48.880 --> 01:35:51.730
Several of my team members have
had some type of addiction in their

01:35:51.730 --> 01:35:56.290
past, or they're currently working
through an addiction, and it's a

01:35:56.290 --> 01:35:58.660
space where no one hides anything.

01:35:59.170 --> 01:36:02.920
So people talk freely and openly,
whether they've been in recovery

01:36:02.920 --> 01:36:05.020
for three months or 30 years.

01:36:06.055 --> 01:36:08.665
That you have a space here
where there's no judgment,

01:36:09.175 --> 01:36:10.495
there's just a space of healing.

01:36:10.915 --> 01:36:16.135
And so it's a very interesting dynamic
that I have because most of the people

01:36:16.135 --> 01:36:23.665
that are on my team have had zero, zero
knowledge in horses, and they were just

01:36:23.665 --> 01:36:28.135
drawn to this place for whatever reason
and are now learning from the ground up,

01:36:28.165 --> 01:36:31.885
which I don't mind because we know that
there are so many bad habits in the horse

01:36:31.885 --> 01:36:37.795
world of how they teach that for me, yes,
it's extra work in some ways, but in other

01:36:37.795 --> 01:36:42.805
ways it's less work because I'm not having
to rebuild a bad, you know, get rid of a

01:36:42.805 --> 01:36:44.455
bad habit and then put in a good habit.

01:36:44.725 --> 01:36:45.145
Rupert Isaacson: Mm.

01:36:46.765 --> 01:36:47.155
Yeah.

01:36:47.155 --> 01:36:50.125
I'm just thinking of course, it's
the bad habits that brought the

01:36:50.125 --> 01:36:51.805
horses to you in the first place.

01:36:51.955 --> 01:36:52.315
Christine Doran: Yes.

01:36:53.485 --> 01:36:55.795
Rupert Isaacson: I'm just thinking
too about your, your experience

01:36:55.795 --> 01:37:00.295
with the TBI of also losing your IQ
and losing your ability to learn.

01:37:00.895 --> 01:37:01.105
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:37:01.105 --> 01:37:04.525
Rupert Isaacson: This
also gives you a uniquely

01:37:06.655 --> 01:37:07.735
empathetic

01:37:08.755 --> 01:37:09.385
Christine Doran: Absolutely.

01:37:09.385 --> 01:37:13.435
I always say I was a compassionate person
and then I became an empathetic person.

01:37:13.795 --> 01:37:14.665
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, yeah.

01:37:14.670 --> 01:37:15.985
Christine Doran: Because
I knew what it was like.

01:37:16.075 --> 01:37:16.585
Rupert Isaacson: Exactly.

01:37:16.585 --> 01:37:18.565
You say, you know, dude, I
have actually been there.

01:37:18.625 --> 01:37:19.015
Yeah.

01:37:19.075 --> 01:37:19.345
Yeah.

01:37:19.345 --> 01:37:19.355
Mm-hmm.

01:37:19.615 --> 01:37:19.885
Yeah.

01:37:20.155 --> 01:37:23.155
Christine Doran: It makes me so much
more relatable, you know, because I think

01:37:23.395 --> 01:37:25.045
Rupert Isaacson: you need to
be running trainings in this.

01:37:25.135 --> 01:37:25.615
You do.

01:37:26.065 --> 01:37:29.995
You need, you need to create like, okay,
you're, you're doing my methods and great.

01:37:29.995 --> 01:37:30.595
That's grand.

01:37:31.045 --> 01:37:31.165
Yeah.

01:37:31.165 --> 01:37:32.605
But you are bigger than that.

01:37:32.705 --> 01:37:38.885
When you put together your Triple H
method, given that you are uniquely

01:37:38.885 --> 01:37:47.885
poised to understand what it is,
to lose love, to lose intellectual

01:37:47.885 --> 01:37:52.265
ability, to lose sensory processing,

01:37:56.045 --> 01:37:58.415
I don't think.

01:37:59.135 --> 01:38:02.525
Many people in our field
are quite so positioned.

01:38:03.475 --> 01:38:07.915
For example, you haven't met her yet,
but there's a genius lady who does

01:38:07.915 --> 01:38:12.395
horse boy movement method in Te Keen
in central Germany called GI Bergoff.

01:38:13.655 --> 01:38:14.765
Amazing human.

01:38:15.045 --> 01:38:16.185
I hope you get to meet one day.

01:38:16.515 --> 01:38:23.235
She is also the mother of a, of a son
who had spinal such severe spina bifida.

01:38:23.985 --> 01:38:24.045
Yeah.

01:38:24.075 --> 01:38:28.745
And hydrocephalus that they said to
abort him they weren't gonna do that.

01:38:28.985 --> 01:38:29.045
Yeah.

01:38:29.255 --> 01:38:34.595
But they understood why the doctors
said it, and therefore, what was coming,

01:38:35.225 --> 01:38:40.685
they've, it's been a great success, but
not without great, you know, struggle.

01:38:40.685 --> 01:38:45.725
But she, before she got into all of
this, she was a dementia nurse and

01:38:46.175 --> 01:38:50.705
there's unique things she understands
that she can bring to the table.

01:38:51.725 --> 01:38:55.715
But I think to have gone through it
yourself, like that early dementia

01:38:56.105 --> 01:39:00.515
I would be very, very interested to
see, and actually to help you when

01:39:00.515 --> 01:39:02.795
you feel ready to structure out.

01:39:03.575 --> 01:39:03.635
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:39:03.665 --> 01:39:05.450
Rupert Isaacson: We, we need
more and more approaches.

01:39:05.450 --> 01:39:06.980
We don't just need horse
boy movement methods.

01:39:06.980 --> 01:39:07.940
Again, we don't just need path.

01:39:07.940 --> 01:39:09.230
We don't just need life and chip.

01:39:09.440 --> 01:39:12.530
We need an infinite number of
these things because there's an

01:39:12.530 --> 01:39:15.120
infinite number of of of contexts.

01:39:16.860 --> 01:39:20.520
So, for example, when you come up with
that, I would totally take your train.

01:39:22.110 --> 01:39:22.320
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:39:24.240 --> 01:39:26.940
Rupert Isaacson: Because I'd, I'd actually
want to be trained by you for that.

01:39:26.945 --> 01:39:27.055
Oh,

01:39:27.055 --> 01:39:27.225
Christine Doran: thank you.

01:39:27.570 --> 01:39:29.580
Rupert Isaacson: And then I'd want
to integrate that into what I was

01:39:29.580 --> 01:39:33.840
doing, you know, Nick, all your good
ideas claim they were mine, you know?

01:39:34.350 --> 01:39:36.770
'cause I've had so many TBIs
that, you know, clearly I,

01:39:36.770 --> 01:39:37.860
you know what I'm gonna do.

01:39:38.140 --> 01:39:38.560
Christine Doran: I know.

01:39:39.520 --> 01:39:39.790
Yeah.

01:39:40.120 --> 01:39:41.770
Rupert Isaacson: Lull you into
a false sense of security.

01:39:41.770 --> 01:39:49.160
And then, but no, I mean, is unique Triple
H that's why I had no hesitation right

01:39:49.160 --> 01:39:51.800
after I did that first thing with you.

01:39:51.800 --> 01:39:54.590
And even though the horses were somewhat
uninformed at that point by Yeah.

01:39:55.130 --> 01:39:58.070
You know, our attacking standard were,
I'd say, no, no, these guys have got it.

01:39:58.075 --> 01:39:59.450
They're, they're gonna get there.

01:39:59.570 --> 01:40:02.750
So I immediately sent that family to you.

01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:04.160
Yeah, that subsequently That's beautiful.

01:40:04.700 --> 01:40:08.840
I was like, that's exactly what they
need is that, is that environment and

01:40:09.410 --> 01:40:15.100
any, you know, listeners and viewers,
if you are in the greater Chicago

01:40:15.100 --> 01:40:18.940
kind of area, and I would include
like, you know, upper Indiana and

01:40:19.330 --> 01:40:21.010
Lower Michigan and all those places.

01:40:21.010 --> 01:40:25.570
You, you want to go check out
Triple H if you've got anyone who

01:40:25.570 --> 01:40:28.480
you feel could benefit from them.

01:40:28.840 --> 01:40:31.930
And crucially, if you want to donate,

01:40:32.710 --> 01:40:32.980
Christine Doran: absolutely

01:40:33.070 --> 01:40:37.180
Rupert Isaacson: you can't really do
better because the money's also going

01:40:37.180 --> 01:40:40.150
to go to rehabbing these horses that.

01:40:41.455 --> 01:40:45.175
By all rights shouldn't
be able to make it and do.

01:40:46.045 --> 01:40:46.315
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:40:46.625 --> 01:40:49.655
Rupert Isaacson: It's, it's an
extraordinary, extraordinary

01:40:54.845 --> 01:40:59.405
achievement and it's, what I love
is that it's, it's just beginning.

01:40:59.405 --> 01:41:00.695
I feel triple HI

01:41:00.845 --> 01:41:01.595
Christine Doran: feel the same way.

01:41:01.775 --> 01:41:06.005
I feel like I'm just at my, just at
the beginning of the store starting

01:41:06.005 --> 01:41:08.075
to open and it feels really good.

01:41:08.405 --> 01:41:09.365
Rupert Isaacson: So where's it going?

01:41:09.365 --> 01:41:10.040
Where do you want it to go?

01:41:10.040 --> 01:41:10.390
Let's dream.

01:41:11.195 --> 01:41:12.245
Money's no object.

01:41:12.245 --> 01:41:13.805
I don't want to be reasonable here.

01:41:14.225 --> 01:41:14.795
Christine Doran: Yes.

01:41:14.795 --> 01:41:19.085
Well, I don't believe in being
reasonable, so, I've got my big dreams.

01:41:19.445 --> 01:41:23.075
But you know, everyone told me Triple H
wasn't gonna be here, so I'm like, you

01:41:23.075 --> 01:41:27.305
know, I have, I have my people around me
that keep me grounded, but my feet are

01:41:27.305 --> 01:41:30.995
off the floor because I figure if you
don't dream big, nothing can be possible.

01:41:31.150 --> 01:41:31.440
Rupert Isaacson: Sure.

01:41:31.590 --> 01:41:31.880
Christine Doran: Also

01:41:32.100 --> 01:41:32.480
Rupert Isaacson: the fun.

01:41:32.480 --> 01:41:33.320
Yeah, yeah,

01:41:33.320 --> 01:41:33.560
Christine Doran: yeah.

01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:34.415
Where's the fun in that?

01:41:34.505 --> 01:41:35.135
Where's the fun?

01:41:35.525 --> 01:41:41.595
So, and you've gotta have fun in this
because you deal with such extreme

01:41:41.595 --> 01:41:43.785
cases between kids that come in

01:41:44.205 --> 01:41:44.295
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:41:44.355 --> 01:41:48.135
Christine Doran: And the abuse and
neglect that you see and you hear, and

01:41:48.135 --> 01:41:52.635
you read when you're doing your intake
assessments to the horses, you have to be

01:41:52.635 --> 01:41:55.185
able to have fun in this or you, you burn

01:41:55.185 --> 01:41:55.365
Rupert Isaacson: out.

01:41:55.365 --> 01:41:55.665
Well, right.

01:41:55.755 --> 01:41:59.865
If, if the problem that we're dealing
with suffering, the opposite of suffering

01:41:59.865 --> 01:42:02.985
is you cannot have joy without fun.

01:42:03.690 --> 01:42:04.860
It's actually a tool.

01:42:04.860 --> 01:42:06.330
If we don't have it, we can't do the job.

01:42:06.390 --> 01:42:07.380
Yeah, no, I totally agree.

01:42:07.680 --> 01:42:08.220
Absolutely.

01:42:08.225 --> 01:42:08.875
So let's agree.

01:42:08.880 --> 01:42:12.240
Christine Doran: So what we're wanting to
do is within two years, we're wanting to

01:42:12.240 --> 01:42:14.610
raise funds to purchase a second property.

01:42:14.790 --> 01:42:14.880
Rupert Isaacson: Mm-hmm.

01:42:15.120 --> 01:42:17.790
Christine Doran: And this property
is specifically for adolescent

01:42:17.790 --> 01:42:19.140
girls and mental health crises.

01:42:19.410 --> 01:42:20.130
Rupert Isaacson: Okay, cool.

01:42:20.130 --> 01:42:23.680
Christine Doran: Because I had
one of my nieces attempted suicide

01:42:23.680 --> 01:42:28.210
when she was 11, and I've been
wanting to do this since I was 16.

01:42:28.510 --> 01:42:34.600
But it became, you know, my own experience
of seeing what these girls go through

01:42:34.930 --> 01:42:39.280
when they either do attempt suicide or
they're having these ideations of it.

01:42:39.760 --> 01:42:44.710
And you get thrown into, you
know, a mental institution with

01:42:44.710 --> 01:42:47.170
white walls, nothing with nature.

01:42:47.710 --> 01:42:50.380
And a lot of times there's
just pills thrown at you.

01:42:50.380 --> 01:42:50.560
It's

01:42:50.560 --> 01:42:51.610
Rupert Isaacson: so bizarre, isn't it?

01:42:51.610 --> 01:42:54.160
The moment someone's suicidal,
they put them in a place that

01:42:54.160 --> 01:42:55.300
makes them want to kill themselves.

01:42:55.360 --> 01:42:55.420
So,

01:42:56.200 --> 01:42:56.530
Christine Doran: yeah.

01:42:56.710 --> 01:42:56.860
Rupert Isaacson: Crazy.

01:42:56.860 --> 01:43:00.190
Christine Doran: And so, like for
my niece, my sister had asked would

01:43:00.190 --> 01:43:02.950
there be, you know, a strip search or
whatever that she'd wanna be there.

01:43:03.040 --> 01:43:04.150
Her daughter's only 11.

01:43:04.600 --> 01:43:07.480
They said no, yet when she
left, she was stripped.

01:43:07.480 --> 01:43:07.570
Right?

01:43:07.990 --> 01:43:13.000
And so, like my niece has all of that
trauma of these adults staring at this

01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:18.400
11-year-old who was just in her bra and
underwear, and them checking her over to

01:43:18.400 --> 01:43:20.230
see if she's hiding anything like that.

01:43:20.290 --> 01:43:24.220
You know, she's gonna, you know, so
there's, there's trauma that comes from.

01:43:24.455 --> 01:43:25.505
Trying help seek help.

01:43:25.955 --> 01:43:32.195
And what Triple H wants to do is to create
a space with cottages instead and have

01:43:32.195 --> 01:43:34.505
two to four girls living in a cottage

01:43:34.655 --> 01:43:34.985
Rupert Isaacson: sanctuary.

01:43:35.195 --> 01:43:35.435
Yeah.

01:43:35.465 --> 01:43:36.125
Christine Doran: Yes.

01:43:36.335 --> 01:43:41.585
And having a rage room and reiki and
horse therapy and just all different

01:43:41.585 --> 01:43:46.445
modalities of healing and having a, a
large pond that they can row across.

01:43:46.445 --> 01:43:48.005
Really being with nature to heal.

01:43:48.425 --> 01:43:51.995
Going on trail rides together,
having a big nest hall where we

01:43:51.995 --> 01:43:55.055
talk together, we watch movies
together, that it becomes a community.

01:43:55.145 --> 01:43:55.175
Mm.

01:43:55.535 --> 01:43:59.645
And that instead of these girls coming
up to me that are in my program, and

01:43:59.645 --> 01:44:04.385
they say, miss Christine, I was only
in for 10 days instead of 21 this time.

01:44:05.225 --> 01:44:06.995
And you have to be so
proud of them for that.

01:44:07.390 --> 01:44:08.890
We're failing our kids.

01:44:09.010 --> 01:44:10.510
We're absolutely failing them.

01:44:10.690 --> 01:44:11.650
That is a bandaid.

01:44:12.040 --> 01:44:16.540
And I wanna be a place that has
residential, but then also has

01:44:16.870 --> 01:44:20.020
programs that are outpatient programs
that you can keep coming back to

01:44:20.020 --> 01:44:23.410
that we don't cut the line with you
just because you're suddenly better.

01:44:23.740 --> 01:44:27.460
No, we wanna get to the root of why do you
feel like you're not worthy of being here?

01:44:27.460 --> 01:44:30.490
Because you are so worthy of being
here, you have so much to offer.

01:44:30.490 --> 01:44:30.580
Mm-hmm.

01:44:31.000 --> 01:44:32.710
And we want them to feel that too.

01:44:33.010 --> 01:44:36.010
So that's like our two year goal
of raising enough money to purchase

01:44:36.010 --> 01:44:37.240
a second property for that.

01:44:37.670 --> 01:44:41.990
And then we have a five to seven year
goal where I really want to go into

01:44:41.990 --> 01:44:48.020
the prison systems because when you
look at foster care statistics, one in

01:44:48.020 --> 01:44:52.190
four kids within the first two years
of aging out will be incarcerated.

01:44:52.880 --> 01:44:56.750
And 80% of current prisoners in
our system right now have been in

01:44:56.750 --> 01:44:58.010
foster care at one point in time.

01:44:58.850 --> 01:45:03.380
So for the ones that I've missed that I
didn't get in my Stable Moments program.

01:45:04.370 --> 01:45:08.600
I then want to have a prison and parolee
program where we go in and we take these

01:45:08.600 --> 01:45:15.260
horses that would be killed at slaughter,
and instead using methods like takin

01:45:15.260 --> 01:45:21.080
and my own to rehab these horses and
have them find these incredible homes.

01:45:21.440 --> 01:45:24.980
And then you're already giving
education and skills to these

01:45:24.980 --> 01:45:28.610
prisoners that either if they're
lifers okay, then they have something

01:45:28.610 --> 01:45:29.990
to do that they're not just sitting.

01:45:30.590 --> 01:45:34.100
But if they get out, then we have a
parolee program and we're a stepping

01:45:34.100 --> 01:45:39.275
stone where we take a chance on them
where no one else would and Right.

01:45:39.275 --> 01:45:41.750
Rupert Isaacson: And if they were lifers,
they could still rehab the horses.

01:45:41.960 --> 01:45:42.530
Christine Doran: Absolutely.

01:45:42.530 --> 01:45:43.700
Rupert Isaacson: The
host is a second wife.

01:45:43.820 --> 01:45:44.000
Yeah,

01:45:44.000 --> 01:45:44.480
Christine Doran: absolutely.

01:45:44.480 --> 01:45:49.640
But the reentry rate is so incredibly
high, and it's because no one, once

01:45:49.640 --> 01:45:50.990
you have it on your record mm-hmm.

01:45:51.380 --> 01:45:53.900
That you've done something, no
one wants to take a chance on you.

01:45:53.990 --> 01:45:55.400
And I wanna take a chance on people.

01:45:55.400 --> 01:46:00.710
Not that everyone will make it, I'm, I'm
not naive to that situation, but for those

01:46:00.710 --> 01:46:02.580
that want it, I wanna be there for them.

01:46:04.235 --> 01:46:06.155
Rupert Isaacson: It would be really
interesting to you to trace the

01:46:06.155 --> 01:46:10.055
TBI line or through foster care

01:46:10.775 --> 01:46:10.865
Christine Doran: mm-hmm.

01:46:11.105 --> 01:46:15.425
Rupert Isaacson: Or through
incarceration or through, you know,

01:46:15.425 --> 01:46:18.815
that I bet you that there is a s scan

01:46:20.015 --> 01:46:20.615
Christine Doran: probably

01:46:21.005 --> 01:46:27.245
Rupert Isaacson: to be detected and
I I wonder if they are multiple ones.

01:46:27.875 --> 01:46:27.995
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:46:27.995 --> 01:46:32.375
Rupert Isaacson: Because somebody
might have had like shaken baby

01:46:32.375 --> 01:46:33.755
or fetal alcohol or whatever.

01:46:33.815 --> 01:46:34.055
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:46:34.715 --> 01:46:40.535
Rupert Isaacson: And then they get
beat up as kids and things happen

01:46:40.535 --> 01:46:46.175
with that, with the brain and then
they get beat up as adolescents.

01:46:46.895 --> 01:46:46.985
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.

01:46:47.495 --> 01:46:52.925
Rupert Isaacson: And, and, and I wonder
if it many times often just goes back to

01:46:52.925 --> 01:46:58.175
something as almost biomechanical as that.

01:46:59.210 --> 01:47:00.080
Which then resonates

01:47:00.140 --> 01:47:00.650
Christine Doran: very interesting.

01:47:00.920 --> 01:47:01.970
Rupert Isaacson: All the way through.

01:47:02.210 --> 01:47:02.600
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:47:02.700 --> 01:47:06.300
Rupert Isaacson: And then even
if it didn't, if you took the

01:47:07.140 --> 01:47:11.220
approach that it had happened, you
would for sure get a good result.

01:47:11.220 --> 01:47:12.180
So, for example,

01:47:14.850 --> 01:47:18.150
as you know, I, I often wear
a dressage hat now as well.

01:47:18.150 --> 01:47:19.560
I, I go out and teach people that

01:47:19.565 --> 01:47:19.715
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:47:20.070 --> 01:47:22.560
Rupert Isaacson: I want them
to do dressage, not dressage

01:47:22.950 --> 01:47:25.550
and something that's nice for
people in horses, you know?

01:47:25.550 --> 01:47:26.030
Christine Doran: Right.

01:47:26.420 --> 01:47:26.780
I love that.

01:47:26.830 --> 01:47:29.280
Rupert Isaacson: So, well,
like horse yoga really, and

01:47:31.770 --> 01:47:32.400
the,

01:47:38.730 --> 01:47:44.370
the parallel what makes me a better
teacher with people is because I now

01:47:44.370 --> 01:47:46.170
treat everyone as if they were autistic.

01:47:47.670 --> 01:47:50.610
And I find if I just
abide by the same rules

01:47:50.735 --> 01:47:51.155
Christine Doran: mm-hmm.

01:47:51.425 --> 01:47:54.120
Rupert Isaacson: That I would abide
by if someone was really autistic.

01:47:55.080 --> 01:47:57.840
Then I'm probably not gonna
trigger, I'm probably not gonna

01:47:57.840 --> 01:47:58.950
this, I'm probably not gonna that.

01:47:58.950 --> 01:48:00.360
I'm gonna think about the environment.

01:48:00.600 --> 01:48:01.980
I'm probably gonna keep my voice soft.

01:48:01.980 --> 01:48:03.870
I'm probably gonna this,
I'm probably gonna that.

01:48:04.380 --> 01:48:04.680
Yeah.

01:48:04.740 --> 01:48:07.440
Rupert Isaacson: And I'll
just be less of a prick.

01:48:08.100 --> 01:48:12.510
And it's funny because, you
know, prick ishness can creep in.

01:48:13.140 --> 01:48:13.440
Yeah.

01:48:13.440 --> 01:48:14.580
And in that type of thing.

01:48:14.580 --> 01:48:18.060
And it's funny, I've caught myself a few
times going, Ooh, ru, you're, you're kind

01:48:18.060 --> 01:48:19.890
of verging towards P freakishness here.

01:48:20.220 --> 01:48:24.750
And then I'm like, Ooh, well what would
I do if that was an autistic person and

01:48:24.750 --> 01:48:26.190
I was getting impatient or something?

01:48:26.190 --> 01:48:27.570
It's like, I don't, I'd apologize.

01:48:28.380 --> 01:48:28.470
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.

01:48:29.370 --> 01:48:30.570
Rupert Isaacson: So
it's really interesting.

01:48:30.600 --> 01:48:32.370
So I've got this thing now.

01:48:32.370 --> 01:48:33.780
I'll apologize to my clients.

01:48:34.650 --> 01:48:38.640
You know, I'll say, sorry, let me just
own that, that, that was so not you.

01:48:38.640 --> 01:48:39.480
That was so me.

01:48:39.810 --> 01:48:42.870
It was just purely that, you know,
I didn't sleep that well last

01:48:42.870 --> 01:48:44.430
night and I'm a bit tired and

01:48:44.430 --> 01:48:44.700
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:45.205
Rupert Isaacson: You know, I.

01:48:46.020 --> 01:48:47.370
Let me just own that.

01:48:47.370 --> 01:48:49.320
Can we just rewind and I, I apologize.

01:48:49.320 --> 01:48:50.460
I sincerely apologize.

01:48:50.820 --> 01:48:54.300
And it's funny, you know, no writing
instructor ever did that to, you

01:48:54.300 --> 01:48:56.490
know, let alone a parent to me.

01:48:56.980 --> 01:49:05.380
But I, so I think if you were to apply
the TBI rules and how it would've

01:49:05.440 --> 01:49:09.850
gone well with you when you were in
the worst of it to kind of everybody

01:49:10.360 --> 01:49:10.630
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:49:10.900 --> 01:49:12.130
Rupert Isaacson: How can
you go wrong, really?

01:49:12.850 --> 01:49:13.000
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:49:16.390 --> 01:49:21.010
Rupert Isaacson: It's sort of a
lesson for ticking the baseline.

01:49:21.010 --> 01:49:22.660
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.

01:49:22.755 --> 01:49:22.780
You know,

01:49:24.010 --> 01:49:26.140
Rupert Isaacson: and, and not
deviating from that baseline.

01:49:26.740 --> 01:49:26.800
Yeah.

01:49:26.800 --> 01:49:30.190
And I think there aren't many people
who really understand that baseline,

01:49:30.610 --> 01:49:36.490
like you do in our field, because
not many have gone through it and, or

01:49:36.520 --> 01:49:38.710
some may have gone through it and not
known that they've gone through it.

01:49:38.920 --> 01:49:39.400
'cause Yeah.

01:49:39.400 --> 01:49:41.020
Lots of us have taken knocks to the head.

01:49:42.190 --> 01:49:43.150
I think what's.

01:49:45.005 --> 01:49:47.830
It's very different about you is that
you're conscious of the whole thing and

01:49:47.830 --> 01:49:49.510
you can kind of chart the chronology.

01:49:49.960 --> 01:49:50.740
Does that make sense?

01:49:51.220 --> 01:49:51.310
Christine Doran: Mm-hmm.

01:49:51.550 --> 01:49:51.560
Yeah.

01:49:51.700 --> 01:49:52.175
Yeah, it does.

01:49:53.155 --> 01:49:53.575
It does.

01:49:56.650 --> 01:49:58.480
Rupert Isaacson: What we haven't asked you

01:49:58.655 --> 01:49:58.945
Christine Doran: yeah.

01:49:59.050 --> 01:50:01.270
Rupert Isaacson: Is what
do the three Hs stand for?

01:50:01.990 --> 01:50:04.340
Christine Doran: So it
actually was done by my sister.

01:50:04.790 --> 01:50:11.600
It was Hands Hos and Hope, but it was such
a mouthful that we literally rebranded and

01:50:11.600 --> 01:50:13.850
got rid of that one and just put Triple H.

01:50:14.000 --> 01:50:14.060
Is

01:50:14.870 --> 01:50:15.530
Rupert Isaacson: it so funny?

01:50:15.530 --> 01:50:16.940
Triple H It sounds so good.

01:50:16.940 --> 01:50:19.130
And you don't even think, well, I
don't need to know what that is.

01:50:19.130 --> 01:50:23.360
'cause it's like all these ranches,
they all have these like Easy L or

01:50:23.600 --> 01:50:28.010
Flying Bee or something, and it's
like, well, okay, it's just a Western

01:50:28.010 --> 01:50:31.700
sounding thing, which probably does go
to like some family name or something.

01:50:32.180 --> 01:50:34.250
Christine Doran: Yeah, no, it was
just my sister came up with it.

01:50:34.250 --> 01:50:34.880
I needed a name.

01:50:34.880 --> 01:50:35.900
I couldn't think of one.

01:50:36.260 --> 01:50:40.810
Yeah, probably 'cause I was suffering
from A TBI that no creativity in me.

01:50:41.230 --> 01:50:44.910
And she came up with it and
then we let that one go.

01:50:44.940 --> 01:50:49.620
'cause I, I didn't know enough to know
that, oh, I could just like, you know,

01:50:49.620 --> 01:50:55.080
do a DBA as triple H and totally just
let Handsomes and Hope go and started

01:50:55.080 --> 01:50:56.760
all the paperwork and the money again.

01:50:56.850 --> 01:50:57.150
Again.

01:50:57.150 --> 01:50:57.180
Oh.

01:50:57.780 --> 01:51:00.090
Wasn't quite with it, with my TBI, but

01:51:00.140 --> 01:51:00.890
Rupert Isaacson: are you creative?

01:51:00.890 --> 01:51:03.290
You said you weren't creative
because you, of the TBI.

01:51:03.470 --> 01:51:05.660
Do you have creative
outlets outside of this?

01:51:06.230 --> 01:51:06.590
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:51:06.950 --> 01:51:07.520
Rupert Isaacson: What do you do?

01:51:08.280 --> 01:51:11.790
Christine Doran: So for
me, I, I love to like knit.

01:51:11.850 --> 01:51:12.960
I'm like a little old lady.

01:51:13.230 --> 01:51:14.310
That's something that I really Okay.

01:51:14.310 --> 01:51:14.640
Did you knit?

01:51:14.640 --> 01:51:14.790
You

01:51:14.790 --> 01:51:15.150
Rupert Isaacson: sure.

01:51:15.900 --> 01:51:16.620
Christine Doran: I did not.

01:51:16.625 --> 01:51:17.820
I didn't, no, I was gonna say
that looks like a professional

01:51:18.825 --> 01:51:18.985
Rupert Isaacson: job.

01:51:18.985 --> 01:51:19.265
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:51:19.320 --> 01:51:20.745
I can't, I can't take credit for that.

01:51:21.015 --> 01:51:24.855
I like to do like baby blankets
for people, blankets for my living

01:51:24.855 --> 01:51:29.935
room, like little baby hats when,
and so I love doing stuff like that.

01:51:29.935 --> 01:51:32.305
I love to read, like, that's
something I really love.

01:51:32.405 --> 01:51:36.260
I, I tend to do reiki on friends
and family when they want it.

01:51:36.410 --> 01:51:39.470
That that's another one of
my outlets that I love that.

01:51:39.980 --> 01:51:45.950
Rupert Isaacson: So the reason I
ask is, describe to me the loss of

01:51:45.950 --> 01:51:50.690
creativity and describe to me the
experience of refining creativity.

01:51:51.920 --> 01:51:56.270
Christine Doran: You know, I think
I have a deep appreciation for

01:51:56.270 --> 01:51:59.000
joy now because when you lose it.

01:51:59.600 --> 01:52:03.770
I didn't have, like, with knitting,
I didn't have the coordination to

01:52:03.770 --> 01:52:07.190
be able to do something like that,
that when I would try and even do it,

01:52:07.190 --> 01:52:10.340
I would give myself such a massive
headache from trying to figure it out.

01:52:10.340 --> 01:52:10.370
Mm.

01:52:10.980 --> 01:52:16.370
That it was not fun for me that I used to
golf a lot and that coordination thing,

01:52:16.370 --> 01:52:18.050
you know, like you, you lose all of that.

01:52:18.770 --> 01:52:22.790
And so I think I, I have an outlook
on life of, and I think that's why I.

01:52:23.720 --> 01:52:28.070
I don't hide anything that's happened
because I think too many times in life

01:52:28.070 --> 01:52:31.610
the way that people show themselves
that if you look at me right now,

01:52:31.610 --> 01:52:34.850
you'd be like, oh my gosh, she's
got these three beautiful children.

01:52:34.850 --> 01:52:35.930
She's a pretty woman.

01:52:35.930 --> 01:52:37.580
She's got this amazing husband.

01:52:37.580 --> 01:52:39.500
She's got this career going for her.

01:52:39.950 --> 01:52:43.130
And it's, I never want people
to think that that was an easy

01:52:43.130 --> 01:52:44.510
thing and that I just got it.

01:52:45.140 --> 01:52:48.410
I want people to know that you
can work hard and go against

01:52:48.410 --> 01:52:52.400
those waves crashing down on you,
and you can still find success.

01:52:52.400 --> 01:52:55.580
You can still find beauty, you
can still find joy in things.

01:52:55.850 --> 01:52:59.510
And I think all too often when we
look at someone, we're like, oh, well,

01:52:59.510 --> 01:53:00.830
they just have luck on their side.

01:53:01.610 --> 01:53:04.885
And my marriage didn't start out like
that before I even had my TBI, Matt and I.

01:53:05.720 --> 01:53:08.180
Matt and I had very, very
bad communication skills.

01:53:08.210 --> 01:53:12.530
We did a ton of therapy together and
we've both worked very hard on ourselves

01:53:12.560 --> 01:53:17.570
and on our relationship, and so I think
it makes a difference to, to really

01:53:17.570 --> 01:53:22.730
appreciate what you have and what you've
worked for and, and finding that that true

01:53:22.730 --> 01:53:28.340
joy in it because you didn't have that
every day that I can wake up and write

01:53:28.340 --> 01:53:33.950
an email or, you know, go out and work my
horses and not be tripping over myself.

01:53:34.340 --> 01:53:37.100
It's a beautiful day to know that
some people don't get that back.

01:53:38.390 --> 01:53:39.290
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah, it's so true.

01:53:39.290 --> 01:53:44.360
I remember when I smashed my legs up and I
was lying on a couch for a long time, and

01:53:44.360 --> 01:53:48.770
I realized what a blessing it was to get
up off a couch and walk to the bathroom.

01:53:49.280 --> 01:53:49.340
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:53:49.400 --> 01:53:53.060
Rupert Isaacson: Like, and I remember
the first day I could, I'm like, I

01:53:53.060 --> 01:53:54.890
will never take this for granted again.

01:53:55.370 --> 01:53:55.580
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:53:55.640 --> 01:53:57.530
Rupert Isaacson: Does it, does
it really come down to gratitude?

01:53:58.400 --> 01:53:59.060
Christine Doran: I think so.

01:53:59.690 --> 01:54:00.410
I really think so.

01:54:00.410 --> 01:54:04.640
I'm, so, I wake up every
day feeling so blessed and.

01:54:06.005 --> 01:54:07.865
Really deep gratitude for what I have.

01:54:09.425 --> 01:54:10.505
Really deep gratitude.

01:54:11.315 --> 01:54:11.795
I do not

01:54:11.795 --> 01:54:11.975
Rupert Isaacson: take it

01:54:11.975 --> 01:54:12.065
Christine Doran: well.

01:54:12.965 --> 01:54:15.635
Rupert Isaacson: I'm very, very
grateful for you and I'm grateful

01:54:15.635 --> 01:54:16.775
for the work you're doing.

01:54:17.435 --> 01:54:21.585
Can you, we we're, we're sort
of now at the I know we talk

01:54:21.585 --> 01:54:22.950
a lot, you know me, you and

01:54:23.205 --> 01:54:24.285
Christine Doran: I are quite the talkers.

01:54:24.795 --> 01:54:28.455
Rupert Isaacson: Well, what a surprise
for me anyway, but Well, what,

01:54:28.485 --> 01:54:30.405
what an excellent, excellent story.

01:54:30.405 --> 01:54:32.245
You've told an inspiration.

01:54:32.725 --> 01:54:35.455
People now need to know how to find you.

01:54:35.455 --> 01:54:36.055
Get in touch you.

01:54:36.055 --> 01:54:36.955
So let's do the plugs.

01:54:36.955 --> 01:54:39.265
Can you give us all the coordinate emails?

01:54:39.265 --> 01:54:39.535
Absolutely.

01:54:39.625 --> 01:54:42.505
Christine Doran: So, even
though we say Triple H, it's

01:54:42.925 --> 01:54:44.965
literally spelled HHH Ranch.

01:54:45.295 --> 01:54:49.915
So if they wanna find us, they just
literally type HHH Ranch and then

01:54:49.915 --> 01:54:52.795
Illinois into Google and we pop right up.

01:54:53.185 --> 01:54:54.835
They want the actual website.

01:54:55.105 --> 01:54:59.815
It's www.hhranchilforillinois.org.

01:54:59.875 --> 01:55:03.595
And then like we talked about with the
donations, everything's tax deductible.

01:55:03.595 --> 01:55:08.605
We are a 5 0 1 C3, so they can always get
that little extra incentive there that

01:55:08.605 --> 01:55:11.725
if they don't just wanna give, but they
want something in return, they can get it.

01:55:12.265 --> 01:55:12.835
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

01:55:13.265 --> 01:55:15.935
If people want to reach out
directly to you, I presume there's

01:55:15.935 --> 01:55:18.035
an email link on the Triple H.

01:55:18.485 --> 01:55:19.085
Christine Doran: Absolutely.

01:55:19.085 --> 01:55:19.355
There's a

01:55:19.355 --> 01:55:23.165
Rupert Isaacson: contact form il.org

01:55:23.345 --> 01:55:23.795
Christine Doran: org?

01:55:23.885 --> 01:55:24.455
Yes.

01:55:24.935 --> 01:55:27.815
Yeah, so they can just, just go on
there and they'll find all of our

01:55:27.815 --> 01:55:30.095
information and then Fantastic.

01:55:30.095 --> 01:55:31.865
We're on TikTok, we're on
Instagram, we're on Facebook.

01:55:31.865 --> 01:55:33.305
You name it, we've probably got it.

01:55:34.025 --> 01:55:34.355
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:55:35.195 --> 01:55:40.445
And if anyone is out there thinking
to be a horse rescue, now that we've

01:55:40.445 --> 01:55:44.255
been educated a little bit in how,
what a bit of a minefield that is.

01:55:45.185 --> 01:55:48.665
Including, if you are doing it
ethically that people might assume

01:55:48.665 --> 01:55:50.825
you're not and not want to support you.

01:55:51.065 --> 01:55:56.355
I suggest you reach out to Christine,
who will mentor you a bit with this.

01:55:56.415 --> 01:55:56.865
Christine Doran: Absolutely.

01:55:56.865 --> 01:55:59.205
Rupert Isaacson: If you're going through
TBIs, if you're going through depression,

01:55:59.205 --> 01:56:02.595
if you're going through postpartum
depression, I suggest you reach out.

01:56:03.075 --> 01:56:09.345
If you are looking for how to bootstrap
your nonprofit, I suggest you reach out.

01:56:09.415 --> 01:56:14.515
I've been to her place a few times
and it is fab and it's getting fab.

01:56:14.935 --> 01:56:19.645
How much do you need to raise for those
dreams, the se, those two and, and

01:56:19.645 --> 01:56:21.235
seven year five to seven year phase.

01:56:21.445 --> 01:56:21.505
So

01:56:22.675 --> 01:56:26.245
Christine Doran: we actually, we have
found a place that we really love that

01:56:26.275 --> 01:56:31.475
is on 20 acres and it already has the
plumbing and the the water and the

01:56:31.475 --> 01:56:35.885
electrical set up that we could literally
do little cottages, build them around 'em.

01:56:36.255 --> 01:56:39.165
And that facility, they
are wanting 600,000 for.

01:56:39.220 --> 01:56:39.990
Rupert Isaacson: Okay,
so you need to raise

01:56:39.990 --> 01:56:40.150
Christine Doran: 600.

01:56:40.150 --> 01:56:41.745
That's lot of updates that it needs.

01:56:41.745 --> 01:56:44.745
But the initial to even get the
property, we're looking anywhere

01:56:44.745 --> 01:56:46.365
from like 600,000 to a million.

01:56:46.935 --> 01:56:47.445
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:56:47.685 --> 01:56:53.865
And then to develop it
another 600,000 or more,

01:56:54.495 --> 01:56:55.725
Christine Doran: probably
more about a million.

01:56:56.145 --> 01:56:58.245
Rupert Isaacson: So really
you need to make two mil.

01:56:58.665 --> 01:56:58.875
Christine Doran: Yep.

01:56:59.445 --> 01:56:59.895
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

01:57:00.045 --> 01:57:02.385
So Triple H needs two mil lads.

01:57:02.985 --> 01:57:05.835
That's very reasonable
in this day and age.

01:57:06.075 --> 01:57:06.375
Christine Doran: Yeah.

01:57:06.475 --> 01:57:07.795
Rupert Isaacson: Who wants to step up?

01:57:08.035 --> 01:57:12.265
Shall we do a little
crowdfunder maybe, or something?

01:57:12.355 --> 01:57:12.895
Hmm.

01:57:13.735 --> 01:57:14.005
Crack.

01:57:15.145 --> 01:57:15.175
Christine Doran: Okay.

01:57:16.525 --> 01:57:16.855
Rupert Isaacson: All right.

01:57:16.855 --> 01:57:17.935
Let's, we'll, we'll talk.

01:57:17.935 --> 01:57:18.355
We'll talk.

01:57:18.355 --> 01:57:18.415
Yeah.

01:57:18.415 --> 01:57:19.705
'cause I believe, I believe in it.

01:57:19.765 --> 01:57:20.755
I believe in the project.

01:57:21.055 --> 01:57:21.235
Thank you.

01:57:21.235 --> 01:57:22.105
I'd like to see it work.

01:57:23.065 --> 01:57:23.185
Christine Doran: Me too.

01:57:23.190 --> 01:57:23.250
Me

01:57:23.250 --> 01:57:23.330
Rupert Isaacson: too.

01:57:23.335 --> 01:57:25.675
I think everyone listening and,
and watching would as well.

01:57:26.185 --> 01:57:27.565
Okay, lads, we have a mission.

01:57:28.315 --> 01:57:28.435
Christine Doran: Woohoo.

01:57:28.765 --> 01:57:29.275
Let's do it.

01:57:29.635 --> 01:57:30.115
Rupert Isaacson: All right.

01:57:30.115 --> 01:57:31.165
And I will see you.

01:57:31.225 --> 01:57:33.205
This is January of 2026.

01:57:33.205 --> 01:57:35.370
I will see you hopefully
in June because we're, yes.

01:57:35.370 --> 01:57:37.465
We're gonna in the Michigan area again.

01:57:38.005 --> 01:57:38.665
Christine Doran: Okay, wonderful.

01:57:39.955 --> 01:57:40.135
Yeah.

01:57:40.135 --> 01:57:42.085
And if not, I'm wanting to
come over to Europe too.

01:57:42.475 --> 01:57:44.905
I figure out this, my sister
and pop around and see you.

01:57:45.515 --> 01:57:45.905
Rupert Isaacson: You know what?

01:57:45.905 --> 01:57:46.415
Find us.

01:57:47.255 --> 01:57:48.665
Christine Doran: You're just
a hop, skip, and a jump away.

01:57:49.085 --> 01:57:49.625
Rupert Isaacson: I am.

01:57:49.925 --> 01:57:50.375
I am.

01:57:50.375 --> 01:57:52.115
Well these days, everything
is from everywhere.

01:57:52.505 --> 01:57:53.135
Alright.

01:57:53.435 --> 01:57:54.425
Until the next time.

01:57:54.425 --> 01:57:56.375
Christine, thank you so much.

01:57:56.525 --> 01:57:57.125
It's been great.

01:57:57.125 --> 01:57:57.545
Thank you.

01:57:57.725 --> 01:57:58.535
Christine Doran: This has been wonderful.

01:57:58.535 --> 01:57:59.315
Thank you for your time.

01:57:59.735 --> 01:58:00.335
Rupert Isaacson: My pleasure.

01:58:00.520 --> 01:58:03.640
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01:58:04.180 --> 01:58:09.080
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01:58:09.090 --> 01:58:13.260
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01:59:14.285 --> 01:59:15.475
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