WEBVTT

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A major F-Droid update,

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a serious AI hack of Australia's

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healthcare records,

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and even your wired headphones might be

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hackable after all.

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All this and more coming up on This

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Week in Privacy number seventy-two,

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so stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we've been

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working on within the Privacy Guides

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community and this week's top stories in

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data privacy and cybersecurity while

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answering viewer questions.

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I'm Jordan and this week I'm joined by

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Nate.

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How are you, Nate?

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I'm good.

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It's been a good week here.

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How have you been doing?

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Good.

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Yeah.

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A little bit of a quieter week,

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but we finally got some videos coming out.

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So definitely,

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definitely a very exciting one.

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I guess we can dive straight into the

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news this week.

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Why don't you take this first one here

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about F-Droid?

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Yeah, definitely.

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All right.

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So our headline story this week is about

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F-Droid,

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as I'm sure you guys saw on the...

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the little title card, um,

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F droid dropped a major update this week.

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So there's going to be a lot to

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go through here.

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Uh,

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just in case anyone doesn't know F droid

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is a,

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an alternative app store for Android that

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focuses primarily on having open source

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apps.

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And, uh,

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For the purists in the crowd,

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a wide umbrella of open source.

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It's not certain licenses.

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They even have things that have

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proprietary bits,

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but they have little warnings.

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And so we'll talk about all of that.

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So they have now rolled out F-Droid two

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point oh.

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And for the most part,

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it's really about I don't want to say

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UI changes because that kind of undersells

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it as if it's just like all cosmetic,

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but it's all a user.

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It's not all it's mostly all

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user interface stuff.

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So, uh, there is some UI changes,

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you know, they got rid of, um,

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what is it?

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They got rid of nearby and my apps,

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which have moved to different tabs.

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So, uh, video viewers can see here.

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Now, when you open it,

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there's just discover search and, uh,

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my apps is down there.

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Um, one thing I'm excited about, well,

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actually that's further down.

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Uh, so F droid has added, um,

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discoverability improvements.

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Basically they've,

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expanded their categories so they still

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have regular categories they also have

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subcategories so that way it's not too

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cluttered but um you know one example they

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give is like games um where did it

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go down here yeah so like f droid

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now distinguishes between different game

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genres making it much easier to find the

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kind of games you'd actually enjoy playing

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so they've got much more detailed

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categories but again those are all

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funneled under uh major categories like

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subcategories so you can

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not be overwhelmed.

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Okay,

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here's the one that I was going to

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say.

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Search has been significantly improved.

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In addition to app names,

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it can now search app descriptions,

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categories, and translated content.

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This makes it easier to find apps based

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on what they do rather than what they're

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called.

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Yeah, personally, I think that's huge.

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F-Droid search has always been garbage.

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You know, if you look up calorie counter,

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for example, or diet app or whatever,

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you're only going to get something that's

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called calorie counter,

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even though there might be other apps that

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do that same thing.

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So that's awesome.

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I mentioned that sometimes it could

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include features you don't want.

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So they've improved the filtering.

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Now, when you search for something,

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you can filter out the app category,

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device compatibility or anti features.

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Yeah, pretty straightforward.

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Smoother installation experience.

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They say thanks to pressure from the EU's

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DMA, or Digital Markets Act,

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and antitrust actions around the world,

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Android now offers all app stores an

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option for a smoother and more automatic

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install and update experience than before.

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F-Droid II.O includes work on utilizing

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these new abilities.

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So they say this brings F-Droid install

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experience on official Android devices

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much closer to what the built-in app

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stores can provide.

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Again,

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they move some stuff around in the UI.

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Update checks now happen automatically in

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the background.

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I do think that automatic updates have

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been a thing for a minute,

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but I could be wrong about that.

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And of course you can adjust the settings

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on that if you don't want it to.

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Data usage, you can tell it, for example,

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only update over wifi because I don't have

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a lot of data on my plan.

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Privacy and security.

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We'll definitely talk about this more in

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the analysis section,

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but I know that is a big, big,

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big criticism with F-Droid is mostly

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security has not always been ideal,

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let's say.

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So unfortunately,

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they haven't made huge improvements on

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that front.

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They made some.

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So we'll dig into this real quick.

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One is the usage of Tor.

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They say the landscape of how Tor is

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integrated into Android has changed quite

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a bit since Tor was first integrated.

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I think I... Oh, no,

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they used integrated twice.

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Sorry, that tripped me up there.

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They said, now there's Tor VPN, Orbot,

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Tor services, and more.

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We took this opportunity to simplify the

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settings and remove auto detection that

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was no longer reliable.

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So if you enable use Tor,

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what was formerly the use Tor setting is

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now migrated to generic proxy settings.

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Going forward,

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Tor VPN is the recommended approach for

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easy Tor support,

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and the proxy settings are still available

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for those who need manual controls.

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Another thing is they have a panic button

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that...

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basically hides your apps.

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It doesn't actually remove them.

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And so I guess previously what it did

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is it made all your apps look like

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a simple calculator.

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Oh, excuse me,

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it disguised F-Droid itself as a simple

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calculator.

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This has been removed and now,

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what did they say?

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A standard design has emerged across apps.

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We've adopted this design.

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Instead of the mask looking and

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functioning of a simple calculator,

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the mask now only affects the app icon,

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name, and nothing else.

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And it informs users that apps will still

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appear in the app settings and would be

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detectable during forensic inspection.

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So hopefully now people don't get a false

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sense of security from that.

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They do say that...

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Uh, in old F droid,

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the panic trigger used to function like an

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app called ripple,

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where it would actually remove the apps.

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Um,

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they say that they understand this is a

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really important feature,

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but at the moment they don't really have

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the, uh, the bandwidth, no pun intended,

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but the bandwidth to maintain the app.

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So that has been dropped,

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but they did say that they would

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absolutely love to work with people.

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If anybody is a developer or knows an

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easier way to maintain that definitely hit

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them up.

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Uh, yeah.

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I told you guys that this would be

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a lot.

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I apologize.

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F-Droid,

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for Android versions that integrate

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F-Droid, such as Kallax OS, Lineage,

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stuff like that,

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it's now integrated a little bit better.

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They can have their own additional repos.

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I'm pretty sure Kallax does that.

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They have a few apps they push out

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manually.

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The F-Droid privileged extension is no

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longer supported, so I know that's been...

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Um, not so much F droid,

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more micro G,

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but I know that's been a criticism of

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Calix for example, is like,

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people feel like micro G has too much

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permission in order to work properly.

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Um, F droid no longer has that permission.

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It's just not even built into it.

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So they,

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it says the overhaul focused on a full

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feature support for the Android session

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installer.

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which allows it to run in the background

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on any recent Android device without

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requiring FPE.

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So a little bit better security.

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I think the last thing worth noting is

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they said that a lot of this stuff

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was written in more modern standard

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Android languages like Jetpack, Compose,

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Kotlin.

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I'm not a developer,

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so I apologize if I'm getting this wrong,

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but that's how I understood it.

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So basically,

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if anybody is a developer and wants to

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contribute,

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it should be a lot easier now because

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they're using much more modern coding

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languages that are much better supported.

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Um, I think that was it.

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And then they talked about funding and how

00:07:42.798 --> 00:07:43.959
they still plan on doing more.

00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:46.380
Um, they say the nearby feature,

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which allows you to share apps directly

00:07:48.122 --> 00:07:49.461
between devices without relying on a

00:07:49.502 --> 00:07:51.543
central server is currently not in two

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point.

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Oh, they are adding it in future releases,

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but it wasn't quite ready yet.

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Um,

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Yeah,

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and they say you can help us test,

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translate, and review.

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So pretty substantial updates there.

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But I think we'll bring Jordan back for

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the analysis here.

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Let's go ahead and start with the elephant

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in the room.

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Like somebody actually left a comment

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which was in the forum.

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We'll get to that in a minute.

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But historically,

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F droid has gotten a lot of heat

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from the privacy community for some of

00:08:24.447 --> 00:08:27.011
their privacy and security shortcomings.

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In your opinion,

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do you think this addresses any of those

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in any kind of meaningful way?

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No, I think, unfortunately,

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the people that had criticisms of F-Droid

00:08:36.802 --> 00:08:37.402
in the past,

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they are not going to be happy with

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any of this.

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Well,

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they might be happy with some of it,

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but I don't think they'll be happy with

00:08:44.344 --> 00:08:45.124
the major things,

00:08:45.144 --> 00:08:47.365
which I think the main issue with F-Droid

00:08:47.404 --> 00:08:49.446
is just the fundamental choices that have

00:08:49.466 --> 00:08:51.426
been made about how it operates.

00:08:52.626 --> 00:08:54.047
One of the main things that people don't

00:08:54.106 --> 00:08:55.827
like is that there's a central...

00:08:56.604 --> 00:08:59.384
like the central server builds and signs

00:08:59.745 --> 00:09:01.565
all of the packages basically,

00:09:02.025 --> 00:09:03.666
which means that there's a central

00:09:03.725 --> 00:09:06.486
authority where if that gets compromised,

00:09:06.506 --> 00:09:08.807
then that could be quite bad.

00:09:09.248 --> 00:09:12.788
And people have also criticized the issues

00:09:12.849 --> 00:09:15.308
with that because it means that basically

00:09:15.349 --> 00:09:17.049
the AfterEds server has to build all of

00:09:17.090 --> 00:09:18.610
the packages.

00:09:18.990 --> 00:09:21.270
And that means that sometimes there's

00:09:21.370 --> 00:09:22.851
actually a delay on updates.

00:09:22.912 --> 00:09:24.152
So basically what it means is,

00:09:24.585 --> 00:09:26.245
you're waiting for FDroid to build the app

00:09:26.645 --> 00:09:28.548
and it takes a week.

00:09:29.048 --> 00:09:32.149
That could be a week of your app

00:09:32.190 --> 00:09:33.951
on your phone being vulnerable to some

00:09:34.072 --> 00:09:35.032
security vulnerability.

00:09:35.072 --> 00:09:39.836
So those main two issues are the problem

00:09:39.855 --> 00:09:40.515
with FDroid.

00:09:40.917 --> 00:09:43.557
And this new update doesn't fix that,

00:09:44.158 --> 00:09:46.139
but it does improve a lot of other

00:09:46.220 --> 00:09:47.561
aspects like you were talking about for

00:09:47.640 --> 00:09:50.102
usability and to make things easy to use.

00:09:50.562 --> 00:09:53.445
So I think it's more down to people

00:09:53.485 --> 00:09:54.166
to decide

00:09:55.019 --> 00:09:58.062
if the security and privacy issues with F

00:09:58.081 --> 00:10:00.923
Droid are like,

00:10:01.164 --> 00:10:03.525
like an actual issue for you specifically.

00:10:03.686 --> 00:10:04.407
And, you know,

00:10:04.466 --> 00:10:05.967
you can make a choice based on that

00:10:05.988 --> 00:10:06.948
because I think, you know,

00:10:06.989 --> 00:10:09.410
there's definitely room for people to make

00:10:09.431 --> 00:10:10.591
their own decisions on this.

00:10:10.892 --> 00:10:11.371
Um,

00:10:11.432 --> 00:10:12.952
it's kind of the reason why we don't

00:10:13.013 --> 00:10:15.895
recommend F Droid, um, at Privacy Guide.

00:10:15.975 --> 00:10:17.917
So it is kind of one of these,

00:10:18.857 --> 00:10:18.977
um,

00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:22.802
one of these issues with a core design

00:10:22.942 --> 00:10:25.004
decision that was made quite a long time

00:10:25.044 --> 00:10:26.346
ago where it's kind of hard for that

00:10:26.386 --> 00:10:29.671
to be fixed at this point.

00:10:29.870 --> 00:10:30.110
Yes.

00:10:30.572 --> 00:10:31.832
So on that note, actually,

00:10:31.873 --> 00:10:33.414
I'll just go ahead and ask the next

00:10:33.434 --> 00:10:33.716
question.

00:10:33.755 --> 00:10:35.477
How do we typically recommend people

00:10:36.138 --> 00:10:37.419
install apps on Android?

00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:37.820
I mean,

00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:39.422
I can't imagine we're fans of the Play

00:10:39.442 --> 00:10:39.663
Store.

00:10:43.077 --> 00:10:43.337
Yeah,

00:10:43.398 --> 00:10:45.961
so basically we've kind of been pushing

00:10:45.980 --> 00:10:48.102
people more towards Obtanium.

00:10:48.403 --> 00:10:50.985
And the reason why we do that is

00:10:51.024 --> 00:10:54.327
because it's an easier way to basically

00:10:54.427 --> 00:10:55.649
audit the apps that you install.

00:10:58.149 --> 00:11:00.691
And we have this app called the Android

00:11:00.770 --> 00:11:03.514
app verified apps, um, that,

00:11:03.974 --> 00:11:04.975
that Joan has been working on.

00:11:05.014 --> 00:11:06.655
And basically you can use that to verify

00:11:06.696 --> 00:11:09.118
the signatures of apps and Obtainium can

00:11:09.138 --> 00:11:10.700
basically pull from any,

00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:12.740
any source that's publicly available.

00:11:13.182 --> 00:11:14.423
So it can pull from GitHub.

00:11:14.503 --> 00:11:15.524
It can pull from FDroid.

00:11:15.563 --> 00:11:18.005
It can pull from a variety of other

00:11:18.046 --> 00:11:21.148
sources and you can use that app,

00:11:21.268 --> 00:11:24.370
that verified apps, um, app to basically,

00:11:24.390 --> 00:11:25.272
um,

00:11:26.570 --> 00:11:30.390
check to make sure that it's actually the

00:11:30.431 --> 00:11:31.912
correct app and it hasn't been tampered

00:11:31.932 --> 00:11:32.152
with.

00:11:32.231 --> 00:11:35.592
So that is the reason that we do

00:11:35.633 --> 00:11:36.433
recommend that.

00:11:37.073 --> 00:11:38.754
We are getting some comments here from Dag

00:11:38.835 --> 00:11:39.254
Overhaul.

00:11:39.294 --> 00:11:41.355
A third of packages on F-Droid are

00:11:41.395 --> 00:11:42.416
reproducible builds.

00:11:42.495 --> 00:11:44.397
There's like a hundred times more packages

00:11:44.437 --> 00:11:46.116
than on a Crescent in total.

00:11:46.616 --> 00:11:48.317
Yeah, I think a Crescent is interesting,

00:11:48.378 --> 00:11:50.558
but it's also a project that is

00:11:51.599 --> 00:11:55.721
not accepting new apps at the moment.

00:11:55.921 --> 00:11:56.981
And it hasn't for,

00:11:58.043 --> 00:11:59.624
I think at least over a year now.

00:12:00.264 --> 00:12:01.465
There's a reason why they don't have,

00:12:01.825 --> 00:12:03.164
they haven't been accepting apps because

00:12:03.186 --> 00:12:04.285
they're working on the backend.

00:12:05.006 --> 00:12:07.427
So there's a reason, but it's also just,

00:12:07.628 --> 00:12:09.188
you know, alpha software at this point.

00:12:09.249 --> 00:12:11.230
So it is something worth keeping an eye

00:12:11.269 --> 00:12:11.370
on,

00:12:11.409 --> 00:12:13.171
but right now it's not something that we

00:12:13.270 --> 00:12:14.731
recommend formally.

00:12:17.442 --> 00:12:17.964
Yeah, for sure.

00:12:17.984 --> 00:12:19.144
I'm glad you mentioned a Crescent because

00:12:19.205 --> 00:12:20.265
I know that was going to come up.

00:12:20.865 --> 00:12:21.667
Yeah,

00:12:21.687 --> 00:12:23.148
and going back to the reproducible builds

00:12:23.187 --> 00:12:23.347
thing,

00:12:23.368 --> 00:12:26.510
that was one of the criticisms of F-Droid

00:12:26.530 --> 00:12:28.111
that have been addressed in recent years.

00:12:28.232 --> 00:12:30.313
I know another criticism that was

00:12:30.354 --> 00:12:30.995
addressed is their...

00:12:34.033 --> 00:12:35.673
infrastructure finally got updated to

00:12:35.692 --> 00:12:36.533
something a lot more recent.

00:12:36.573 --> 00:12:37.533
They tend to use Debian,

00:12:37.634 --> 00:12:38.754
I believe for their infrastructure.

00:12:38.813 --> 00:12:40.154
So, um, yeah,

00:12:40.174 --> 00:12:41.575
they are slowly making progress.

00:12:41.615 --> 00:12:42.715
I think there's some things like you

00:12:42.754 --> 00:12:44.296
mentioned the, the fact that they,

00:12:45.216 --> 00:12:47.056
they basically co-sign the packages,

00:12:47.076 --> 00:12:48.697
if I understand it correctly, uh,

00:12:48.736 --> 00:12:49.616
when they run updates.

00:12:49.657 --> 00:12:51.557
And so like that is a bottleneck and

00:12:51.636 --> 00:12:53.097
also it is placing another trust.

00:12:53.158 --> 00:12:53.278
It's,

00:12:53.658 --> 00:12:54.538
it's kind of one of those double-edged

00:12:54.577 --> 00:12:54.957
sword things.

00:12:54.998 --> 00:12:55.958
Cause on the one hand it acts as

00:12:55.979 --> 00:12:56.658
an oversight.

00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:57.198
If you know,

00:12:58.119 --> 00:12:59.940
if somebody's GitHub repo gets hacked and

00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:01.760
they push out a malicious update and

00:13:01.780 --> 00:13:02.740
you're using Obtanium,

00:13:03.380 --> 00:13:04.761
you're going straight to that update.

00:13:05.861 --> 00:13:07.263
Whereas something like F-Droid could

00:13:07.283 --> 00:13:08.743
function as another level of oversight

00:13:08.763 --> 00:13:09.224
potentially.

00:13:09.663 --> 00:13:10.943
But at the same time, like you said,

00:13:10.964 --> 00:13:12.264
the drawback is now you're adding another

00:13:12.304 --> 00:13:13.024
party of trust.

00:13:13.085 --> 00:13:13.725
Now it takes you...

00:13:14.186 --> 00:13:15.806
I remember when Bitwarden rolled out

00:13:15.966 --> 00:13:16.667
Passkeys,

00:13:16.826 --> 00:13:18.267
I was using it through F-Droid at the

00:13:18.287 --> 00:13:20.268
time and it took like a week or

00:13:20.307 --> 00:13:21.708
something or an extra three days or

00:13:21.749 --> 00:13:23.589
something for them to finally update it

00:13:23.970 --> 00:13:25.350
and for me to get Passkey support.

00:13:25.429 --> 00:13:26.650
So yeah, it's...

00:13:27.941 --> 00:13:30.504
unfortunate but uh just to let people know

00:13:30.543 --> 00:13:32.485
we also uh if you're a graphene os

00:13:32.567 --> 00:13:33.967
user obviously we recommend getting things

00:13:33.988 --> 00:13:35.610
from the graphene store which does feature

00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:37.451
a crescent if you want to focus on

00:13:37.491 --> 00:13:40.115
that which will um we'll discuss that a

00:13:40.134 --> 00:13:40.995
little bit more in a second i see

00:13:41.015 --> 00:13:42.798
we're getting some more comments uh we

00:13:42.839 --> 00:13:45.601
also recommend aurora store for getting uh

00:13:45.701 --> 00:13:47.443
google apps because then at least you

00:13:47.484 --> 00:13:47.683
don't

00:13:48.284 --> 00:13:50.005
uh if we point out here like you

00:13:50.025 --> 00:13:51.086
may still need to sign in to get

00:13:51.105 --> 00:13:53.005
some of the paid google apps but at

00:13:53.047 --> 00:13:54.726
least you won't have like the full google

00:13:54.767 --> 00:13:56.628
play services and client running on your

00:13:56.648 --> 00:13:58.668
device so it's still it's a harm reduction

00:13:58.707 --> 00:14:00.788
thing you know it makes it just a

00:14:00.828 --> 00:14:03.750
little bit better um yeah a crescent's

00:14:03.769 --> 00:14:05.090
really popular right now because for those

00:14:05.110 --> 00:14:06.431
who don't know it um here let me

00:14:06.451 --> 00:14:07.791
throw up the website real quick actually

00:14:07.890 --> 00:14:10.912
it uh ah oopsies i hit the button

00:14:10.932 --> 00:14:12.873
too many times i apologize y'all um

00:14:13.995 --> 00:14:15.317
A crescent is really popular right now

00:14:15.437 --> 00:14:19.863
because it promises to allow like you

00:14:19.903 --> 00:14:23.227
don't have to trust a crescent like they

00:14:23.248 --> 00:14:25.070
don't co sign it the way that f

00:14:25.090 --> 00:14:25.650
droid does.

00:14:26.751 --> 00:14:29.095
They do app signing key pinning.

00:14:29.554 --> 00:14:31.677
They do split APKs, no remote APKs,

00:14:31.716 --> 00:14:32.476
no account required.

00:14:32.496 --> 00:14:33.778
Like, well, I mean,

00:14:34.158 --> 00:14:35.178
F-Droid doesn't require an account.

00:14:35.239 --> 00:14:36.720
Now F-Droid is also getting the automatic

00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:37.120
updates.

00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.381
So it has been really popular with people.

00:14:39.422 --> 00:14:40.662
But yeah, at this time, it's still,

00:14:40.741 --> 00:14:40.903
I mean,

00:14:40.923 --> 00:14:42.384
it says currently in alpha and it's

00:14:42.403 --> 00:14:43.543
against Privacy Guide's policy to

00:14:43.583 --> 00:14:44.764
recommend alpha software.

00:14:45.645 --> 00:14:47.486
I know they have had some funding issues

00:14:47.567 --> 00:14:48.607
and development has really,

00:14:48.648 --> 00:14:50.028
really slowed down a lot.

00:14:50.589 --> 00:14:53.250
So yeah, it's very...

00:14:55.229 --> 00:14:56.350
Like Oddbite said here,

00:14:56.429 --> 00:14:57.870
a crescent is basically unmaintained at

00:14:57.910 --> 00:14:58.471
this point.

00:14:58.951 --> 00:15:00.253
You said the last release was like ten

00:15:00.293 --> 00:15:00.734
months ago.

00:15:01.374 --> 00:15:03.556
I did not know that personally, but yeah.

00:15:04.096 --> 00:15:05.596
I would like to just quickly hop in

00:15:05.657 --> 00:15:07.158
here and correct that.

00:15:07.318 --> 00:15:10.160
It is not unmaintained, just to be clear.

00:15:10.701 --> 00:15:12.482
There was literally commits to it

00:15:13.163 --> 00:15:15.423
like yesterday last month or the day

00:15:15.442 --> 00:15:17.864
before like if you check logan who

00:15:17.884 --> 00:15:21.323
develops a crescent you can see um he's

00:15:21.344 --> 00:15:23.945
been making commits to it for like the

00:15:23.985 --> 00:15:26.705
last month or so there's there's other

00:15:26.725 --> 00:15:29.365
branches too but i think it's i think

00:15:29.405 --> 00:15:31.346
it's definitely not unmaintained i think

00:15:31.365 --> 00:15:33.527
there's definitely work being done um so

00:15:33.547 --> 00:15:35.746
i'm not sure just because there hasn't

00:15:35.767 --> 00:15:37.027
been an app release doesn't mean there

00:15:37.067 --> 00:15:39.028
hasn't been work on like the back end

00:15:39.087 --> 00:15:41.227
of the project i think it's like

00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.062
still you know it's still getting it's

00:15:45.081 --> 00:15:49.446
still getting um it's still getting it's

00:15:49.466 --> 00:15:50.748
still getting work done there's the

00:15:50.827 --> 00:15:53.169
crescent console api which literally just

00:15:53.230 --> 00:15:56.712
had a commit two days ago so logan

00:15:56.754 --> 00:15:58.355
is working on it there is stuff happening

00:15:58.735 --> 00:16:00.476
um it's just not part of the actual

00:16:00.537 --> 00:16:02.538
app itself it's the process to get apps

00:16:02.558 --> 00:16:05.621
submitted and like all the back fifty two

00:16:05.642 --> 00:16:06.023
minutes ago

00:16:07.505 --> 00:16:10.048
Yeah, so, yeah, it is being maintained.

00:16:11.308 --> 00:16:11.730
Gotcha.

00:16:11.850 --> 00:16:12.090
Okay.

00:16:12.409 --> 00:16:12.809
Well, that's good.

00:16:12.830 --> 00:16:14.892
It's just slow because of the back-end

00:16:14.932 --> 00:16:15.192
stuff.

00:16:15.472 --> 00:16:16.693
I've been paying a bit of attention to

00:16:16.734 --> 00:16:18.174
it because I've been interested in it,

00:16:18.294 --> 00:16:21.037
but I think it's one of these things

00:16:21.096 --> 00:16:24.179
that it's going to take a little while.

00:16:24.460 --> 00:16:25.841
It's going to be a little while until

00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:27.381
we get something that's kind of fully

00:16:27.422 --> 00:16:28.123
featured, right?

00:16:28.503 --> 00:16:29.945
It is one person working on this,

00:16:30.125 --> 00:16:32.186
and F-Droid is definitely a larger

00:16:32.225 --> 00:16:32.626
project.

00:16:32.767 --> 00:16:33.847
They've got a lot of funding now,

00:16:34.148 --> 00:16:36.269
which is good, but...

00:16:37.134 --> 00:16:39.135
It's definitely a slower burn on that,

00:16:39.155 --> 00:16:40.976
but it'll be interesting to see if it's

00:16:40.996 --> 00:16:42.138
something we can recommend in the future

00:16:42.197 --> 00:16:45.039
once it becomes fully stable software.

00:16:46.640 --> 00:16:47.861
I did not know it was one person.

00:16:47.942 --> 00:16:48.923
I knew it was a small team,

00:16:48.942 --> 00:16:49.984
but I didn't know it was literally one

00:16:50.043 --> 00:16:50.303
person.

00:16:50.323 --> 00:16:51.004
That's pretty wild.

00:16:51.465 --> 00:16:52.865
That's impressive that one person's been

00:16:52.905 --> 00:16:55.927
able to do that.

00:16:55.967 --> 00:16:57.629
Really quick, Terracotta asks,

00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:00.250
when is it safe to install APKs directly?

00:17:00.431 --> 00:17:00.652
I mean...

00:17:02.410 --> 00:17:03.172
I don't know if I have an answer

00:17:03.192 --> 00:17:04.252
to that just because that's a little bit

00:17:04.272 --> 00:17:07.193
above my skill level.

00:17:07.213 --> 00:17:08.255
But yeah, that's something I wonder.

00:17:08.634 --> 00:17:10.036
Like I said, with something like Obtanium,

00:17:10.135 --> 00:17:11.616
there's really no checks and balances if

00:17:11.636 --> 00:17:12.978
the developer's GitHub gets hacked.

00:17:14.358 --> 00:17:16.361
You mentioned the verified apps app.

00:17:16.401 --> 00:17:18.162
Are there any other things that viewers

00:17:18.182 --> 00:17:19.863
can do that you know of?

00:17:21.394 --> 00:17:21.534
Well,

00:17:21.574 --> 00:17:22.914
that is something that we're trying to

00:17:22.954 --> 00:17:23.556
fix, right?

00:17:23.576 --> 00:17:26.198
Because if we get every single app that

00:17:26.238 --> 00:17:28.558
ever existed added to the app verifier,

00:17:28.598 --> 00:17:30.681
we can know whether the app is actually

00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:31.781
being tampered with or not.

00:17:31.942 --> 00:17:34.304
So that's kind of like the ideal, right?

00:17:35.084 --> 00:17:35.644
We're basically,

00:17:36.204 --> 00:17:38.686
I think Jonah said he's been adding some

00:17:38.987 --> 00:17:41.449
more fixes to it and we've been getting

00:17:41.548 --> 00:17:43.109
a lot of submissions from people in our

00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:43.490
community.

00:17:43.530 --> 00:17:46.333
I think there's someone in our supporters

00:17:46.413 --> 00:17:46.532
group

00:17:47.241 --> 00:17:48.982
group chat, you know who you are,

00:17:49.242 --> 00:17:51.243
but you've like done so many,

00:17:51.604 --> 00:17:52.944
so many full requests.

00:17:52.984 --> 00:17:55.605
It's actually kind of, um, amazing,

00:17:55.665 --> 00:17:57.146
but thank you so much for everyone who's

00:17:57.186 --> 00:17:59.367
been like contributing to that because it

00:17:59.407 --> 00:18:00.107
does help people.

00:18:00.268 --> 00:18:00.749
And, you know,

00:18:00.769 --> 00:18:02.169
it's good to know if the app that

00:18:02.189 --> 00:18:03.609
you download is actually legit.

00:18:04.349 --> 00:18:05.951
Um, I do think though,

00:18:06.171 --> 00:18:07.271
try and avoid those

00:18:08.064 --> 00:18:10.865
direct to APK websites like APK Pure and

00:18:10.924 --> 00:18:11.705
all these sort of things.

00:18:12.445 --> 00:18:14.366
Try to download things through more

00:18:14.386 --> 00:18:15.107
official means.

00:18:15.167 --> 00:18:15.968
Like we mentioned,

00:18:16.028 --> 00:18:17.169
we do recommend Aurora Store.

00:18:17.348 --> 00:18:18.788
So if you have to download something

00:18:18.808 --> 00:18:19.690
that's from the Play Store,

00:18:19.750 --> 00:18:20.769
maybe try that first.

00:18:23.151 --> 00:18:24.672
I know the GrapheneOS developers do

00:18:24.731 --> 00:18:26.534
recommend using the Google Play Store

00:18:26.574 --> 00:18:27.075
itself,

00:18:27.214 --> 00:18:30.778
but I think there could be some privacy

00:18:30.817 --> 00:18:32.459
issues with installing that on your

00:18:32.479 --> 00:18:32.819
device.

00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:33.780
So you'll have to make up your own

00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:37.443
mind whether those privacy issues are

00:18:37.483 --> 00:18:40.747
worth the increased security.

00:18:41.146 --> 00:18:41.948
But yeah,

00:18:42.469 --> 00:18:43.990
it's all interesting stuff going on.

00:18:45.434 --> 00:18:47.277
For sure.

00:18:47.297 --> 00:18:48.858
Viewers, I would say let us know,

00:18:48.878 --> 00:18:50.662
what do you guys use to install Android

00:18:51.001 --> 00:18:52.223
or apps on Android?

00:18:52.663 --> 00:18:55.227
What's your preferred method?

00:18:55.448 --> 00:18:57.609
And remember to go ahead and ask questions

00:18:57.671 --> 00:18:59.452
and leave comments in the chat as we

00:18:59.512 --> 00:18:59.893
go.

00:19:00.894 --> 00:19:02.296
We did have a couple of questions in

00:19:02.336 --> 00:19:02.896
the chat.

00:19:03.678 --> 00:19:04.439
the forum thread,

00:19:04.459 --> 00:19:05.819
but I think we kind of already addressed

00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:06.040
them.

00:19:06.181 --> 00:19:07.021
You know, one person asked,

00:19:07.041 --> 00:19:08.103
how is it a game changer if none

00:19:08.123 --> 00:19:09.423
of the fundamental security issues were

00:19:09.443 --> 00:19:09.785
addressed?

00:19:10.184 --> 00:19:11.286
We kind of talked about that already.

00:19:11.346 --> 00:19:14.209
So I think we'll move on to our

00:19:14.288 --> 00:19:16.030
next story for the moment.

00:19:16.392 --> 00:19:18.513
And someone also asked for a link to

00:19:18.574 --> 00:19:19.275
app verifiers.

00:19:19.315 --> 00:19:20.395
So I will drop that in the chat

00:19:20.415 --> 00:19:22.137
while Jordan is covering this next story

00:19:22.198 --> 00:19:22.357
here.

00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:24.441
Right.

00:19:24.601 --> 00:19:24.901
Okay.

00:19:24.941 --> 00:19:28.483
Let's jump into this next story about

00:19:28.743 --> 00:19:29.144
Meta.

00:19:29.345 --> 00:19:32.827
Meta's extraordinarily privileged AI

00:19:32.847 --> 00:19:35.390
assistant has a serious zero day.

00:19:35.830 --> 00:19:37.491
We want to cover this story because Muse

00:19:37.531 --> 00:19:39.114
is currently topping the charts in app

00:19:39.134 --> 00:19:39.433
stores.

00:19:39.814 --> 00:19:41.615
So this is a big story to share

00:19:41.634 --> 00:19:43.076
with your friends and family.

00:19:43.236 --> 00:19:45.156
So the Zero Day allows any app or

00:19:45.196 --> 00:19:47.438
terminal command to gain access to the

00:19:47.478 --> 00:19:49.398
token that authenticates users to their

00:19:49.459 --> 00:19:50.099
Muse account.

00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.280
Meta developers design the assistance so

00:19:53.320 --> 00:19:55.642
that any locally installed app or executed

00:19:55.682 --> 00:19:55.982
code,

00:19:56.403 --> 00:19:58.624
regardless of the macOS permissions it

00:19:58.663 --> 00:19:58.963
has,

00:19:59.263 --> 00:20:01.204
can change a long list of undocumented

00:20:01.244 --> 00:20:01.665
settings.

00:20:02.165 --> 00:20:03.747
Most of them are fairly innocuous,

00:20:03.787 --> 00:20:05.106
such as controlling dark mode.

00:20:05.508 --> 00:20:06.387
One setting, however,

00:20:06.488 --> 00:20:07.828
is anything but innocuous.

00:20:08.288 --> 00:20:11.152
It allows processes to change the endpoint

00:20:11.172 --> 00:20:12.493
where transcription occurs.

00:20:12.894 --> 00:20:13.275
Normally,

00:20:13.335 --> 00:20:18.059
it's a server address operated by meta.

00:20:18.140 --> 00:20:20.001
Attackers can exploit this flaw by

00:20:20.061 --> 00:20:23.204
changing the location to their own

00:20:23.285 --> 00:20:23.766
endpoint.

00:20:24.026 --> 00:20:25.587
And once this happens, attackers have

00:20:25.950 --> 00:20:28.711
the token that gives complete control over

00:20:28.833 --> 00:20:29.593
the Muse account.

00:20:29.792 --> 00:20:31.454
More than twelve hours after this post

00:20:31.474 --> 00:20:31.974
went live,

00:20:32.336 --> 00:20:34.518
Meta said that it released a hotfix that

00:20:34.577 --> 00:20:35.659
patched the zero day.

00:20:36.179 --> 00:20:38.401
Wardle said that Meta developers made

00:20:38.560 --> 00:20:41.804
several decisions that made his exploit

00:20:41.844 --> 00:20:42.243
possible.

00:20:42.285 --> 00:20:44.646
So Wardle is the person that disclosed the

00:20:44.707 --> 00:20:45.067
exploit.

00:20:45.988 --> 00:20:47.249
One is the choice for Muse

00:20:47.548 --> 00:20:49.551
dictation to occur in the cloud where Meta

00:20:49.571 --> 00:20:50.173
can log it.

00:20:50.373 --> 00:20:53.195
macOS has long provided a simple means for

00:20:53.256 --> 00:20:55.598
apps to handle dictation and transcription

00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:57.781
in processes that stay securely on the

00:20:57.801 --> 00:20:58.242
device.

00:20:58.563 --> 00:21:00.184
Had the developers chosen this safer

00:21:00.224 --> 00:21:00.766
alternative,

00:21:01.547 --> 00:21:03.429
the attack wouldn't have been possible.

00:21:04.289 --> 00:21:06.432
One of the counter arguments raised by

00:21:06.932 --> 00:21:08.855
developers of apps that can be exploited

00:21:08.974 --> 00:21:10.175
once a device is compromised,

00:21:10.556 --> 00:21:11.856
is that once that happens,

00:21:11.977 --> 00:21:13.357
all security bets are off.

00:21:13.657 --> 00:21:15.460
This standard doesn't fit well in this

00:21:15.500 --> 00:21:17.320
case because Wardle found that a simple

00:21:17.340 --> 00:21:19.722
variation of the click fix attack

00:21:20.939 --> 00:21:23.280
A technique that has become remarkably

00:21:23.300 --> 00:21:25.742
effective in tricking people into

00:21:25.843 --> 00:21:28.005
infecting their devices is all that's

00:21:28.045 --> 00:21:30.146
required for an attacker to take control

00:21:30.207 --> 00:21:31.008
of a Muse account.

00:21:31.448 --> 00:21:33.069
So we did talk about that last week.

00:21:34.570 --> 00:21:35.250
I guess, yeah,

00:21:35.412 --> 00:21:36.432
kind of throwing it back to you.

00:21:38.413 --> 00:21:39.815
AI agents kind of have a lot of

00:21:39.894 --> 00:21:40.816
access to stuff.

00:21:41.596 --> 00:21:43.317
Are there any ways to mitigate this sort

00:21:43.357 --> 00:21:44.558
of thing if you are going to have

00:21:44.578 --> 00:21:46.221
to use one of these AI agents?

00:21:46.361 --> 00:21:48.061
Is there a way to like, you know...

00:21:48.923 --> 00:21:51.044
avoid having it take over your entire

00:21:51.084 --> 00:21:51.525
computer?

00:21:52.605 --> 00:21:55.207
Yeah, that's the question.

00:21:56.267 --> 00:21:59.528
For the record, I'm not an AI expert,

00:21:59.568 --> 00:22:00.650
especially with AI agents,

00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:03.832
I've never messed with any of them.

00:22:03.872 --> 00:22:05.412
Feel free to add anything that I miss.

00:22:05.492 --> 00:22:07.513
First of all, yes,

00:22:09.074 --> 00:22:09.194
uh, uh,

00:22:09.234 --> 00:22:10.734
abstinence is always the best way with

00:22:10.755 --> 00:22:12.435
this kind of stuff and just not using

00:22:12.455 --> 00:22:13.056
an AI agent.

00:22:13.076 --> 00:22:14.037
If you don't need it at all,

00:22:14.416 --> 00:22:15.096
if you don't use it,

00:22:15.498 --> 00:22:16.198
nothing can go wrong.

00:22:16.238 --> 00:22:16.458
Right.

00:22:16.498 --> 00:22:17.417
At least not in that sense.

00:22:17.459 --> 00:22:20.240
So, um, yeah, I, I would say like,

00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:21.701
ask yourself if you really need it and

00:22:21.721 --> 00:22:23.000
if it's really bringing you that much

00:22:23.020 --> 00:22:25.422
benefit, if it really is, I know, um,

00:22:25.461 --> 00:22:26.143
some people in the, uh,

00:22:26.343 --> 00:22:27.864
the privacy guide supporter chat earlier

00:22:27.884 --> 00:22:29.584
tonight, we're talking about, um,

00:22:29.604 --> 00:22:30.924
like running it inside a virtual machine,

00:22:30.984 --> 00:22:32.986
possibly, uh, that might help.

00:22:33.266 --> 00:22:34.567
And I've also heard a

00:22:37.248 --> 00:22:38.250
If you make an agent,

00:22:38.289 --> 00:22:39.872
give it its own accounts because a lot

00:22:39.892 --> 00:22:41.934
of these things hook into or they're

00:22:41.954 --> 00:22:43.557
designed to hook into your account.

00:22:43.596 --> 00:22:43.798
Right.

00:22:43.817 --> 00:22:45.779
And they send emails as you and they

00:22:46.040 --> 00:22:47.462
connect to your bank account and they

00:22:47.482 --> 00:22:49.586
connect to your Twitter, your whatever,

00:22:49.625 --> 00:22:50.006
whatever.

00:22:50.567 --> 00:22:51.147
And, you know,

00:22:51.167 --> 00:22:53.010
but if you set up a second account,

00:22:54.375 --> 00:22:54.974
I feel like personally,

00:22:55.015 --> 00:22:55.994
I would appreciate that anyways,

00:22:56.035 --> 00:22:57.316
because I'd be really pissed if I'm like

00:22:57.355 --> 00:22:58.935
sending an email and you're never seeing

00:22:58.996 --> 00:22:59.096
it.

00:22:59.576 --> 00:23:01.336
And it's your AI agent that's responding.

00:23:01.696 --> 00:23:02.856
But at least you can like set it

00:23:02.876 --> 00:23:03.997
up as like an assistant, right?

00:23:04.017 --> 00:23:05.018
Like this is my assistant,

00:23:05.498 --> 00:23:06.377
whatever you want to name it.

00:23:06.857 --> 00:23:08.597
Dave, I don't know how three thousand.

00:23:08.998 --> 00:23:09.898
This is my assistant.

00:23:10.239 --> 00:23:10.618
And that way,

00:23:10.638 --> 00:23:12.019
at least I know that it's like, OK,

00:23:12.038 --> 00:23:13.400
I'm not talking to you directly.

00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:14.799
So and, you know,

00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:16.140
that way also like you have that

00:23:16.180 --> 00:23:17.000
compartmentalization.

00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:18.661
It can't just hijack your whole email

00:23:18.681 --> 00:23:19.040
account.

00:23:19.080 --> 00:23:19.421
It can't.

00:23:20.020 --> 00:23:21.182
uh, start deleting things.

00:23:21.241 --> 00:23:21.701
It can't, you know,

00:23:21.721 --> 00:23:22.623
I'm thinking like the bank account

00:23:22.663 --> 00:23:22.923
example.

00:23:22.942 --> 00:23:23.743
I don't know if you'd be able to

00:23:23.763 --> 00:23:25.085
do that very well, to be honest,

00:23:25.144 --> 00:23:26.306
but theoretically,

00:23:26.346 --> 00:23:27.826
if it only had access to one account

00:23:27.926 --> 00:23:29.327
and you just top it up as needed,

00:23:29.667 --> 00:23:30.769
that way you don't log in and find

00:23:30.808 --> 00:23:31.229
out like, Oh,

00:23:31.249 --> 00:23:33.750
it spent thousand dollars on plane tickets

00:23:33.770 --> 00:23:34.991
to Bali or whatever.

00:23:35.112 --> 00:23:35.471
I don't know.

00:23:35.571 --> 00:23:36.573
So yeah.

00:23:36.772 --> 00:23:36.893
Um,

00:23:36.992 --> 00:23:38.594
just basically trying to compartmentalize

00:23:38.634 --> 00:23:39.855
it as much as possible is what I've

00:23:39.875 --> 00:23:41.715
been hearing is the best way to deal

00:23:41.736 --> 00:23:43.217
with it if you must deal with it

00:23:43.237 --> 00:23:43.917
at all.

00:23:43.958 --> 00:23:44.097
So.

00:23:46.833 --> 00:23:47.393
Yeah,

00:23:48.314 --> 00:23:50.173
I'm definitely on the AI hater train.

00:23:51.394 --> 00:23:54.935
I think there's definitely questionable

00:23:54.976 --> 00:23:56.155
reasons to use this.

00:23:56.957 --> 00:23:59.877
I'd say maybe try your brain, actually.

00:24:00.713 --> 00:24:02.714
can't be exploited, believe it or not,

00:24:02.875 --> 00:24:04.095
but it is pretty secure.

00:24:04.575 --> 00:24:06.016
It is pretty private as well,

00:24:06.556 --> 00:24:07.375
at least for now.

00:24:07.395 --> 00:24:09.997
So, you know, if you,

00:24:10.116 --> 00:24:10.757
if you can use your,

00:24:10.957 --> 00:24:12.817
your own brain to do stuff,

00:24:13.458 --> 00:24:15.137
then maybe try to do that.

00:24:15.357 --> 00:24:17.078
But I think, you know, there's,

00:24:17.459 --> 00:24:20.599
there's definitely people that use these

00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.900
tools and we're not going to discriminate

00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:24.060
against those people.

00:24:24.260 --> 00:24:24.800
So if,

00:24:25.161 --> 00:24:28.281
if someone wants to use these tools and,

00:24:28.843 --> 00:24:31.424
What is there that actually has some

00:24:31.765 --> 00:24:33.767
semblance of privacy and security in mind?

00:24:33.946 --> 00:24:36.368
Are there options for these people that do

00:24:36.568 --> 00:24:38.611
use AI agents?

00:24:40.905 --> 00:24:41.727
I didn't want to cut you off,

00:24:41.767 --> 00:24:42.967
but Oddbite beat me to it.

00:24:43.367 --> 00:24:44.228
I object to that, Jordan.

00:24:44.288 --> 00:24:45.989
Social engineering has existed for a long

00:24:46.028 --> 00:24:46.288
time.

00:24:46.949 --> 00:24:47.529
They are right.

00:24:47.849 --> 00:24:48.089
I mean,

00:24:48.490 --> 00:24:49.730
I agree with your point a hundred percent,

00:24:49.750 --> 00:24:49.971
but yeah,

00:24:49.990 --> 00:24:51.531
your brain's hackable in a different way.

00:24:51.592 --> 00:24:52.893
It's not,

00:24:52.972 --> 00:24:54.334
there's definitely a lot of things that

00:24:54.413 --> 00:24:56.934
the reason AI agents fall for them is

00:24:56.974 --> 00:24:58.715
because they don't have context.

00:24:59.195 --> 00:25:00.997
Whereas like there are things that AI does

00:25:01.037 --> 00:25:02.458
that it's like no human would do that

00:25:02.817 --> 00:25:04.358
because a human would know not to do

00:25:04.378 --> 00:25:05.400
that just innately.

00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:05.920
So yeah,

00:25:06.019 --> 00:25:06.960
it's definitely a different kind of

00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:07.461
hacking and

00:25:08.080 --> 00:25:08.701
It's definitely like,

00:25:09.161 --> 00:25:10.721
that to me is the biggest thing keeping

00:25:10.741 --> 00:25:11.241
me from,

00:25:11.281 --> 00:25:12.962
I wouldn't say it's the biggest thing

00:25:12.982 --> 00:25:14.183
keeping me from playing with this stuff,

00:25:14.203 --> 00:25:15.124
but like, to me,

00:25:15.163 --> 00:25:16.203
that's the biggest thing that I'm like,

00:25:16.243 --> 00:25:18.005
how are they going to solve this?

00:25:18.025 --> 00:25:19.125
Can they even solve this?

00:25:19.506 --> 00:25:21.086
Is, you know, we always harp on like,

00:25:21.205 --> 00:25:22.707
AI is not actually intelligent.

00:25:22.767 --> 00:25:23.727
It's not sentient.

00:25:24.208 --> 00:25:26.608
So it doesn't understand what it's doing.

00:25:26.628 --> 00:25:28.229
It doesn't have a concept of anything.

00:25:28.628 --> 00:25:29.970
And that's why so many of these attacks

00:25:30.029 --> 00:25:30.269
work.

00:25:30.309 --> 00:25:31.671
You know, if you like,

00:25:31.691 --> 00:25:33.070
what's the classic that people were

00:25:33.111 --> 00:25:33.411
putting it,

00:25:33.451 --> 00:25:35.412
like ignore all previous instructions and

00:25:35.451 --> 00:25:36.873
write me a poem about lasagna or

00:25:36.932 --> 00:25:37.252
something.

00:25:37.873 --> 00:25:38.374
And it's like,

00:25:38.953 --> 00:25:41.635
it works because AI doesn't understand.

00:25:41.676 --> 00:25:44.038
So yeah, that's what makes it dangerous.

00:25:44.078 --> 00:25:44.558
It's crazy.

00:25:46.707 --> 00:25:48.848
Yeah,

00:25:48.888 --> 00:25:50.329
the only thing I'll add is there are,

00:25:50.450 --> 00:25:51.990
I don't think there's any AI agents that

00:25:52.010 --> 00:25:53.553
have been made by any privacy-focused

00:25:53.573 --> 00:25:54.532
companies that I'm aware of.

00:25:54.993 --> 00:25:56.615
I know like Firefox has their AI window

00:25:56.654 --> 00:25:57.075
in beta.

00:25:57.175 --> 00:25:58.477
Brave says they're working on something

00:25:58.517 --> 00:25:58.916
similar.

00:26:00.117 --> 00:26:02.180
Kerry Parker actually mentioned here that

00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.061
he's been working on building his own

00:26:05.321 --> 00:26:06.663
locally run AI agent.

00:26:06.702 --> 00:26:08.424
He talks about that sometimes over on his

00:26:08.464 --> 00:26:09.025
podcast.

00:26:09.105 --> 00:26:11.527
So yeah, I don't really,

00:26:11.886 --> 00:26:12.708
I think this is one of those things

00:26:12.728 --> 00:26:14.169
we don't have any solutions for anybody

00:26:14.209 --> 00:26:15.770
who's like interested in learning more

00:26:16.451 --> 00:26:17.751
Oh, I also had an odd bite here,

00:26:17.771 --> 00:26:19.354
said the S in AI stands for security.

00:26:20.295 --> 00:26:21.836
But yeah,

00:26:22.076 --> 00:26:24.117
if anybody has any input on any like,

00:26:24.178 --> 00:26:24.278
oh,

00:26:24.317 --> 00:26:26.819
I heard this company is working on this

00:26:26.859 --> 00:26:28.481
product that might be private or whatever,

00:26:28.561 --> 00:26:29.803
I mean, obviously,

00:26:29.843 --> 00:26:30.604
that's not an endorsement,

00:26:30.624 --> 00:26:31.585
but feel free to leave that in the

00:26:31.625 --> 00:26:31.904
chat.

00:26:31.924 --> 00:26:35.708
So yeah,

00:26:36.749 --> 00:26:38.070
unless you have anything else to add,

00:26:38.090 --> 00:26:40.313
I think we can move on to our

00:26:40.353 --> 00:26:41.834
next topic of discussion.

00:26:43.020 --> 00:26:45.541
which is a forum post.

00:26:46.422 --> 00:26:49.143
So this is something I want to raise

00:26:49.182 --> 00:26:50.462
to the community here,

00:26:51.643 --> 00:26:52.864
because this is actually a conversation

00:26:52.884 --> 00:26:54.263
that has popped up in the Privacy Guides

00:26:54.284 --> 00:26:54.804
team chat,

00:26:55.263 --> 00:26:57.765
which is we're wondering if Privacy Guides

00:26:57.785 --> 00:27:00.365
should still even have translations.

00:27:01.506 --> 00:27:02.246
So right now,

00:27:03.067 --> 00:27:04.747
if you go to the front page of

00:27:04.807 --> 00:27:05.386
Privacy Guides,

00:27:05.406 --> 00:27:06.488
let me pull this up real quick,

00:27:07.208 --> 00:27:08.448
you can actually see here that we have

00:27:08.587 --> 00:27:09.729
English, Spanish, French,

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:12.701
Hebrew took me a minute to remember what

00:27:12.721 --> 00:27:13.300
that language is called.

00:27:13.942 --> 00:27:16.403
Italian, Dutch, Russian.

00:27:16.923 --> 00:27:19.025
I think that's Chinese possibly.

00:27:20.445 --> 00:27:20.946
I apologize.

00:27:20.987 --> 00:27:22.488
I probably got that wrong, but you know,

00:27:22.508 --> 00:27:23.768
we have quite a few different languages,

00:27:23.808 --> 00:27:24.709
which I think is super cool.

00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:27.151
But on the topic of AI, you know,

00:27:27.290 --> 00:27:31.874
AI has come pretty far and it now

00:27:34.256 --> 00:27:35.175
for better or worse,

00:27:35.296 --> 00:27:38.798
it can translate webpages and usually

00:27:39.179 --> 00:27:40.599
fairly accurately and

00:27:41.653 --> 00:27:44.734
But this one person here in this thread

00:27:44.755 --> 00:27:46.455
was saying that they speak Arabic.

00:27:46.476 --> 00:27:48.416
They're a native Arabic speaker.

00:27:49.077 --> 00:27:50.719
And they said that especially for

00:27:50.778 --> 00:27:51.739
technical terminology,

00:27:51.939 --> 00:27:54.161
AI really doesn't do a very good job.

00:27:54.201 --> 00:27:54.881
Like a lot of the time,

00:27:54.901 --> 00:27:55.922
you can't even really tell what it's

00:27:55.961 --> 00:27:56.521
trying to say.

00:27:57.542 --> 00:27:59.064
I remember just as a test,

00:28:00.003 --> 00:28:02.405
I ran one of my pages for my

00:28:02.425 --> 00:28:05.307
website through AI to turn it into French.

00:28:06.095 --> 00:28:07.215
And I sent it to a friend who

00:28:07.236 --> 00:28:08.316
was a native French speaker.

00:28:08.855 --> 00:28:10.517
And she was like, yeah, it's like eighty,

00:28:10.576 --> 00:28:11.738
ninety percent of the way there.

00:28:11.758 --> 00:28:12.837
But there's some words that are just

00:28:13.178 --> 00:28:14.259
they're technically correct,

00:28:14.298 --> 00:28:15.759
but they feel kind of weird and out

00:28:15.778 --> 00:28:16.220
of place.

00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:17.720
That's not something like a natural French

00:28:17.740 --> 00:28:18.580
speaker would say.

00:28:19.560 --> 00:28:21.922
And I think in the signal chat as

00:28:21.961 --> 00:28:23.143
well, we had somebody saying,

00:28:23.823 --> 00:28:24.563
what language do they speak?

00:28:24.604 --> 00:28:25.824
I think they were saying they speak German

00:28:25.923 --> 00:28:26.703
and it's very similar.

00:28:27.585 --> 00:28:29.746
So, yeah, I don't know.

00:28:29.786 --> 00:28:30.945
It sounds like there's pros and cons.

00:28:32.875 --> 00:28:33.394
Klingon.

00:28:33.836 --> 00:28:35.336
Yes, Jonah, we need to add Klingon.

00:28:35.656 --> 00:28:36.297
You know what?

00:28:36.317 --> 00:28:37.396
There's somebody out there that would do

00:28:37.438 --> 00:28:37.518
it.

00:28:38.137 --> 00:28:39.519
And I think they added Valerian to

00:28:39.778 --> 00:28:41.480
Duolingo as well many, many years ago.

00:28:43.601 --> 00:28:44.882
But yeah,

00:28:45.342 --> 00:28:46.342
I just wanted to put more light on

00:28:46.382 --> 00:28:47.643
this for the community to come and weigh

00:28:47.663 --> 00:28:47.803
in.

00:28:47.883 --> 00:28:49.584
I think somebody on the Privacy Guides

00:28:49.604 --> 00:28:52.306
team pointed out that technically having a

00:28:52.365 --> 00:28:54.326
local translation is good for SEO and

00:28:54.366 --> 00:28:55.627
search ranking engines and stuff,

00:28:55.708 --> 00:28:57.067
search engine ranking and stuff.

00:28:57.568 --> 00:28:58.148
So I don't know.

00:28:58.229 --> 00:28:58.888
It seems like one of those,

00:28:59.009 --> 00:29:00.369
I feel like everybody has good arguments

00:29:00.390 --> 00:29:00.750
to be made.

00:29:02.070 --> 00:29:02.471
But yeah,

00:29:02.832 --> 00:29:04.894
I want to raise that one to the

00:29:04.913 --> 00:29:05.374
community.

00:29:05.473 --> 00:29:06.674
And the last thing I wanted to add

00:29:06.875 --> 00:29:10.538
was, yeah, for viewers, let us know,

00:29:10.578 --> 00:29:12.539
does AI reliably translate into your

00:29:12.579 --> 00:29:13.101
language?

00:29:14.201 --> 00:29:15.502
And if you're like, no, it doesn't,

00:29:15.603 --> 00:29:17.003
it sucks, and I'd rather humans do this,

00:29:17.183 --> 00:29:18.285
we need human translators.

00:29:18.325 --> 00:29:19.707
We need more volunteers on Crowdin.

00:29:19.807 --> 00:29:21.587
So definitely check that out.

00:29:22.128 --> 00:29:23.029
Do you have anything to add to this

00:29:23.049 --> 00:29:24.431
that I missed, Jordan?

00:29:25.395 --> 00:29:25.936
I do think,

00:29:26.196 --> 00:29:28.218
I believe this discussion came up because

00:29:28.258 --> 00:29:30.299
we've been looking at redesigning the

00:29:30.339 --> 00:29:34.022
website and integrating Crowdin and the

00:29:34.042 --> 00:29:37.046
translation system onto that new website

00:29:37.086 --> 00:29:38.547
design might've been a bit tricky.

00:29:38.727 --> 00:29:38.926
Um,

00:29:39.067 --> 00:29:40.648
I think that might be the reason why

00:29:40.689 --> 00:29:42.069
we've also been looking at this too.

00:29:42.871 --> 00:29:42.971
Um,

00:29:44.172 --> 00:29:47.314
But I think it's definitely something we

00:29:47.334 --> 00:29:48.734
need to get a lot of feedback from

00:29:48.775 --> 00:29:49.394
the community on.

00:29:50.236 --> 00:29:52.336
And it's going to kind of shape what

00:29:52.356 --> 00:29:54.699
we do with this because it doesn't matter

00:29:54.719 --> 00:29:57.361
what I think or what you think or

00:29:57.381 --> 00:29:58.040
what Jonah thinks.

00:29:58.340 --> 00:30:00.343
It's more kind of down to what people

00:30:00.423 --> 00:30:01.083
actually want.

00:30:01.723 --> 00:30:04.045
And if people are fine with the AI

00:30:04.065 --> 00:30:06.946
translations and that's what ends up

00:30:06.987 --> 00:30:07.428
winning out,

00:30:07.468 --> 00:30:09.348
then I think that's what we should do.

00:30:09.409 --> 00:30:11.509
But I think it's really important that we

00:30:11.549 --> 00:30:12.550
get feedback

00:30:12.869 --> 00:30:14.230
especially the people that have done

00:30:14.269 --> 00:30:15.510
translations in the past,

00:30:16.030 --> 00:30:18.030
their thoughts on this, because yeah,

00:30:18.191 --> 00:30:19.432
it's, it's definitely tricky.

00:30:19.551 --> 00:30:19.872
I can't,

00:30:20.291 --> 00:30:22.512
I'm like in a privileged position where I

00:30:22.553 --> 00:30:23.452
speak one language.

00:30:23.573 --> 00:30:25.053
I've never had to learn any other ones

00:30:25.093 --> 00:30:26.273
because you know,

00:30:26.314 --> 00:30:27.874
everyone here just speaks one language.

00:30:27.933 --> 00:30:29.734
So I'm sure there's plenty of places in

00:30:29.755 --> 00:30:30.515
the world where, you know,

00:30:31.707 --> 00:30:34.469
you wanna send someone this cool website

00:30:34.509 --> 00:30:36.069
and it's in the wrong language and there's

00:30:36.089 --> 00:30:37.830
no translation and it just makes it kind

00:30:37.851 --> 00:30:38.411
of a nightmare.

00:30:38.431 --> 00:30:41.553
So I can understand like how important

00:30:41.573 --> 00:30:42.814
that might be for some people,

00:30:43.755 --> 00:30:46.375
but I do think it is definitely something

00:30:46.395 --> 00:30:46.936
we need to get

00:30:47.656 --> 00:30:49.397
more feedback from so if you do have

00:30:49.438 --> 00:30:51.939
feedback leave it in there um we'll try

00:30:51.959 --> 00:30:54.101
and you know signal boost this a bit

00:30:54.141 --> 00:30:56.261
more and try and get translators opinions

00:30:56.301 --> 00:30:59.222
on this but i think it'll be it'll

00:30:59.242 --> 00:31:00.584
be really interesting to see what the

00:31:00.624 --> 00:31:01.785
final decision ends up being

00:31:03.310 --> 00:31:03.830
Yeah, for sure.

00:31:03.851 --> 00:31:06.953
I wanted to say on the topic of

00:31:06.993 --> 00:31:08.214
being born a native English speaker,

00:31:08.335 --> 00:31:09.615
I really appreciated that when I went to

00:31:09.675 --> 00:31:10.496
Europe last year.

00:31:10.516 --> 00:31:13.218
And I had no issue getting around because

00:31:13.298 --> 00:31:15.000
everybody spoke amazing English because

00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:17.300
English is the standard language across

00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:17.662
the world.

00:31:17.701 --> 00:31:18.342
And I'm like, wow,

00:31:18.863 --> 00:31:20.644
I'm really lucky that I was just born

00:31:21.084 --> 00:31:22.744
naturally brought up in this environment

00:31:22.904 --> 00:31:23.846
and didn't have to learn it.

00:31:24.346 --> 00:31:25.047
Also, side note,

00:31:25.326 --> 00:31:27.489
developed a real respect for immigrants

00:31:27.509 --> 00:31:29.490
who immigrate to a new country because I

00:31:29.509 --> 00:31:30.971
would sit there looking at signs and I'm

00:31:30.990 --> 00:31:31.192
like,

00:31:32.296 --> 00:31:33.836
I think this is what I have written

00:31:33.876 --> 00:31:34.196
down.

00:31:34.376 --> 00:31:35.538
I think I need to go this way.

00:31:36.659 --> 00:31:37.920
I can't believe people manage that every

00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:39.039
day of their lives in a completely

00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:39.621
different alphabet.

00:31:39.681 --> 00:31:40.320
That was wild.

00:31:42.583 --> 00:31:42.742
Yeah,

00:31:42.823 --> 00:31:44.203
Oddbite said here he speaks Russian and

00:31:44.324 --> 00:31:46.325
LLMs have that same quality issue for

00:31:46.365 --> 00:31:46.986
Russian too.

00:31:48.826 --> 00:31:50.347
And Vonnegut Rosewater said we need to

00:31:50.387 --> 00:31:51.749
translate to the language from The Aliens

00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:53.109
from Arrival, which is a great movie.

00:31:53.250 --> 00:31:53.829
Highly recommend.

00:31:54.990 --> 00:31:55.871
But that's all I got.

00:31:57.603 --> 00:31:57.923
Yeah, no,

00:31:57.962 --> 00:32:00.443
I definitely have a lot of respect for

00:32:00.463 --> 00:32:01.805
people that speak more than one language.

00:32:03.445 --> 00:32:05.306
I've always wanted to, but it's tricky.

00:32:06.326 --> 00:32:06.606
But yeah,

00:32:06.626 --> 00:32:07.807
I guess we can dive into this next

00:32:07.847 --> 00:32:10.648
story here about open AI.

00:32:10.689 --> 00:32:12.430
And I guess this is something that is

00:32:12.450 --> 00:32:14.150
a little close to home for me.

00:32:14.190 --> 00:32:14.711
This is...

00:32:15.911 --> 00:32:19.413
An open AI agent hacked Australia's health

00:32:19.473 --> 00:32:21.996
service their government found out months

00:32:22.056 --> 00:32:22.376
later.

00:32:23.017 --> 00:32:25.019
Hold on, I think we have this one.

00:32:25.078 --> 00:32:26.079
Oh, no, I apologize.

00:32:26.259 --> 00:32:27.220
I have my notes out of order.

00:32:27.260 --> 00:32:27.580
Continue.

00:32:29.627 --> 00:32:31.709
So this story is Australia only found out

00:32:31.749 --> 00:32:33.970
about the incident when OpenAI alerted the

00:32:33.990 --> 00:32:35.550
government on September,

00:32:35.931 --> 00:32:38.451
almost three months after the attack by

00:32:38.531 --> 00:32:41.233
sending an email to a public mailbox.

00:32:41.794 --> 00:32:43.714
OpenAI's agent had been conducting

00:32:43.835 --> 00:32:45.615
internet-based research into health

00:32:45.655 --> 00:32:47.876
statistics in a development project by an

00:32:47.936 --> 00:32:50.518
internal OpenAI research team when it

00:32:50.538 --> 00:32:52.338
could not access certain information

00:32:52.679 --> 00:32:55.319
The agent attempted alternative ways until

00:32:55.339 --> 00:32:57.740
it found a workaround and gained

00:32:57.921 --> 00:32:59.541
unauthorized access.

00:32:59.922 --> 00:33:01.663
It also wrote files to the internal

00:33:01.702 --> 00:33:02.103
server,

00:33:02.403 --> 00:33:04.423
which the government is waiting on OpenAI

00:33:04.463 --> 00:33:06.984
for more technical information on.

00:33:07.285 --> 00:33:08.944
The government is also investigating

00:33:08.964 --> 00:33:11.326
whether the agent gained unauthorized

00:33:11.445 --> 00:33:13.866
access to three additional government

00:33:13.906 --> 00:33:15.288
websites it interacted with.

00:33:15.647 --> 00:33:17.048
The Australian government currently

00:33:17.068 --> 00:33:19.170
believes no one's personal data was

00:33:19.309 --> 00:33:19.789
accessed.

00:33:20.369 --> 00:33:22.851
Though investigations are still ongoing,

00:33:23.111 --> 00:33:25.511
the website in question is a public-facing

00:33:25.551 --> 00:33:27.792
statistics portal that contains no

00:33:27.952 --> 00:33:30.334
sensitive Medicare information relating to

00:33:30.473 --> 00:33:32.575
data and statistics such as spending.

00:33:32.914 --> 00:33:34.236
So just to clarify,

00:33:34.336 --> 00:33:36.076
Medicare is the public service that we're

00:33:36.096 --> 00:33:37.096
talking about in this story.

00:33:37.537 --> 00:33:41.219
It was therefore behind much lower levels

00:33:41.259 --> 00:33:43.640
of security than personal data would have

00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:43.980
been.

00:33:44.460 --> 00:33:46.800
Australia is establishing a task force to

00:33:46.961 --> 00:33:48.261
look at the incident data

00:33:48.501 --> 00:33:50.644
and emerging AI cyber threats,

00:33:51.144 --> 00:33:54.127
it will consider possible law enforcement

00:33:54.248 --> 00:33:56.990
and legislative responses to ensure

00:33:57.211 --> 00:34:00.314
incidents like this don't happen again.

00:34:00.854 --> 00:34:02.816
So I think the first thing that we

00:34:02.836 --> 00:34:06.378
need to discuss here is if this was

00:34:06.398 --> 00:34:07.921
a human, what would happen to them?

00:34:11.507 --> 00:34:12.909
I know, I keep thinking that.

00:34:13.248 --> 00:34:13.730
I actually,

00:34:14.170 --> 00:34:15.731
I did message my lawyer friend earlier

00:34:15.751 --> 00:34:16.952
today to ask about that.

00:34:17.032 --> 00:34:18.592
She hasn't responded yet, but I was like,

00:34:19.313 --> 00:34:20.373
I basically asked her, I'm like,

00:34:20.474 --> 00:34:23.615
is there an actual reason that companies

00:34:23.635 --> 00:34:25.277
are getting away with this aside from like

00:34:25.317 --> 00:34:26.617
they're rich and they're big,

00:34:26.657 --> 00:34:27.599
gigantic companies?

00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:28.460
Like, because yeah,

00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:29.440
this is the kind of stuff that if

00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:30.621
a human was doing this,

00:34:31.081 --> 00:34:32.021
there wouldn't even be a question.

00:34:32.141 --> 00:34:32.922
It'd be like, you know,

00:34:33.043 --> 00:34:33.682
what's the classic,

00:34:33.702 --> 00:34:34.643
like go straight to jail,

00:34:34.684 --> 00:34:35.364
do not pass go,

00:34:35.423 --> 00:34:36.605
do not collect two hundred dollars.

00:34:36.965 --> 00:34:37.485
But for some reason,

00:34:37.505 --> 00:34:38.005
they're all sitting here.

00:34:38.025 --> 00:34:39.766
It's like, well, was this illegal?

00:34:39.887 --> 00:34:40.307
And it's like,

00:34:41.007 --> 00:34:43.831
don't know i'm i'm baffled i i i

00:34:43.911 --> 00:34:46.233
have to wonder if there's like something

00:34:46.253 --> 00:34:47.653
in the way laws are written that it's

00:34:47.673 --> 00:34:48.815
like well actually yeah it is kind of

00:34:48.835 --> 00:34:50.516
a legal gray area if it applies to

00:34:50.596 --> 00:34:52.458
ai but in my opinion it's like i

00:34:52.478 --> 00:34:53.679
don't understand if i go home and i

00:34:53.759 --> 00:34:55.780
like home make a knife and use it

00:34:55.820 --> 00:34:57.181
to stab somebody they're not going to be

00:34:57.222 --> 00:34:59.224
like well does that count it's like yeah

00:34:59.264 --> 00:35:00.744
it doesn't matter where the tool came from

00:35:00.804 --> 00:35:03.668
i still did something wrong so i don't

00:35:03.688 --> 00:35:05.628
know it's so weird i don't understand why

00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:07.271
this is a problem personally

00:35:08.965 --> 00:35:10.487
Um, I don't know,

00:35:10.507 --> 00:35:11.670
I guess getting back to the story itself,

00:35:11.710 --> 00:35:13.092
do you think there's anything that like

00:35:13.132 --> 00:35:14.753
people can do about this?

00:35:14.773 --> 00:35:15.974
Cause I feel like sometimes there's like

00:35:16.014 --> 00:35:17.436
data incidences that it's like,

00:35:18.318 --> 00:35:20.360
I can use good passwords and two FA

00:35:20.420 --> 00:35:20.920
and, you know,

00:35:21.061 --> 00:35:22.643
email aliasing and all this stuff.

00:35:22.664 --> 00:35:23.103
But like,

00:35:23.684 --> 00:35:24.947
how am I supposed to defend against this?

00:35:26.588 --> 00:35:26.827
Yeah.

00:35:26.867 --> 00:35:28.469
And especially it's because in this

00:35:28.530 --> 00:35:28.949
instance,

00:35:29.010 --> 00:35:30.512
Medicare is something that every

00:35:31.291 --> 00:35:33.755
Australian citizen has and even

00:35:33.795 --> 00:35:34.755
non-citizens actually.

00:35:35.655 --> 00:35:36.797
So, you know, it's like,

00:35:37.557 --> 00:35:38.858
it's like one of these things where it's

00:35:38.878 --> 00:35:41.481
like, you can't opt out of this.

00:35:42.202 --> 00:35:43.302
You can't opt out of Medicare.

00:35:43.342 --> 00:35:44.844
You get that, you just get that.

00:35:45.585 --> 00:35:47.005
So like all your data is going to

00:35:47.025 --> 00:35:48.588
be stored in Medicare.

00:35:48.768 --> 00:35:50.730
And if you, well,

00:35:52.668 --> 00:35:54.849
yeah you can you can you can choose

00:35:54.869 --> 00:35:56.628
what information to share with medicare so

00:35:56.688 --> 00:35:58.769
you know if you if you are worried

00:35:58.789 --> 00:36:00.150
about information getting breached through

00:36:00.190 --> 00:36:02.110
medicare you can update information to

00:36:02.251 --> 00:36:04.251
stuff that's less sensitive such as like

00:36:04.690 --> 00:36:06.592
updating your email address updating your

00:36:06.652 --> 00:36:09.432
address upgrading your phone number that's

00:36:09.452 --> 00:36:10.552
attached to your account you can even

00:36:10.592 --> 00:36:12.092
remove your phone number from your account

00:36:12.833 --> 00:36:14.134
um but i think

00:36:15.407 --> 00:36:17.809
We can't really do a whole lot when

00:36:17.829 --> 00:36:18.809
it comes to this sort of thing.

00:36:19.471 --> 00:36:21.713
I will also touch on this other aspect

00:36:21.773 --> 00:36:23.755
that I guess I haven't really seen any

00:36:23.855 --> 00:36:24.715
articles talking about,

00:36:24.775 --> 00:36:28.599
but this kind of brings up another issue

00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:30.201
in Australia where we have this system

00:36:30.240 --> 00:36:31.342
called My Health Record,

00:36:31.362 --> 00:36:32.364
which basically stores

00:36:32.903 --> 00:36:36.144
people's medical records in an online

00:36:36.184 --> 00:36:37.005
portal, basically.

00:36:37.105 --> 00:36:40.346
And it's shared between doctors and stuff.

00:36:40.626 --> 00:36:42.266
And it basically uploads all of your

00:36:42.306 --> 00:36:43.266
medical details there.

00:36:43.847 --> 00:36:45.507
And this is the issue that people had

00:36:45.547 --> 00:36:46.108
with that.

00:36:46.307 --> 00:36:47.307
They were like, well,

00:36:47.347 --> 00:36:48.987
this is just going to get hacked.

00:36:49.188 --> 00:36:51.009
People just kept saying that.

00:36:51.068 --> 00:36:51.889
And now Medicare,

00:36:53.030 --> 00:36:55.309
it's clear that they don't have as good

00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:57.351
security as we thought because some

00:36:57.411 --> 00:36:57.710
random...

00:36:58.271 --> 00:37:00.793
open AI agent just randomly gained

00:37:00.853 --> 00:37:02.074
unauthorized access to it.

00:37:02.175 --> 00:37:03.496
I mean, it wasn't user data,

00:37:03.516 --> 00:37:05.679
but it was still data in general.

00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:08.981
So I think when you see this sort

00:37:09.021 --> 00:37:09.322
of thing,

00:37:09.461 --> 00:37:09.822
it is

00:37:12.777 --> 00:37:15.119
It makes you not want to put your

00:37:15.139 --> 00:37:16.882
information into these online systems.

00:37:17.601 --> 00:37:18.963
But just quickly,

00:37:19.364 --> 00:37:22.086
Jonah just gifted five Privacy Guides

00:37:22.126 --> 00:37:22.626
memberships.

00:37:22.688 --> 00:37:25.050
So congrats to anyone that's got one of

00:37:25.090 --> 00:37:25.590
those.

00:37:26.311 --> 00:37:28.432
Hopefully you can enjoy some members-only

00:37:28.452 --> 00:37:30.735
content there with that new membership.

00:37:33.393 --> 00:37:35.295
Looks like Dag Overhaul grabbed one.

00:37:36.396 --> 00:37:38.097
I see his little icon changed.

00:37:38.237 --> 00:37:38.998
So that's awesome.

00:37:39.458 --> 00:37:40.039
Thank you, Jonah.

00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:40.699
Very generous.

00:37:41.882 --> 00:37:42.722
Yeah, for sure.

00:37:43.242 --> 00:37:45.905
I... Yeah.

00:37:46.106 --> 00:37:46.246
I mean,

00:37:46.286 --> 00:37:47.427
I don't really have much else to add.

00:37:47.487 --> 00:37:47.586
It's...

00:37:51.521 --> 00:37:53.342
Yeah, it's unfortunate.

00:37:54.103 --> 00:37:54.443
Oh, no,

00:37:54.483 --> 00:37:55.244
I remember what I was going to say.

00:37:55.804 --> 00:37:56.806
It goes back to what we were just

00:37:56.826 --> 00:37:58.987
saying a minute ago about the AI agents

00:37:59.007 --> 00:38:01.389
and AI does not understand what it's

00:38:01.449 --> 00:38:03.992
actually doing because...

00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.681
If a human, you know,

00:38:07.721 --> 00:38:10.181
depending on what kind of a obstacle was

00:38:10.202 --> 00:38:10.961
in the way here, you know,

00:38:10.981 --> 00:38:13.724
if a human hits a login wall or

00:38:13.804 --> 00:38:15.625
like unauthorized access or something,

00:38:15.985 --> 00:38:17.565
you know, a human understands, like,

00:38:17.684 --> 00:38:18.925
I'm not supposed to be looking at this.

00:38:19.286 --> 00:38:21.106
And a human would probably have the

00:38:21.146 --> 00:38:22.266
decency to be like, well,

00:38:22.688 --> 00:38:24.088
I'm doing this for a legitimate person.

00:38:24.108 --> 00:38:25.568
Let me shoot them an email and explain

00:38:25.608 --> 00:38:26.449
like, hey, here's where I am.

00:38:26.489 --> 00:38:27.030
Here's what I'm doing.

00:38:27.050 --> 00:38:27.730
Can I get this data?

00:38:28.250 --> 00:38:29.751
or since a lot of this they said

00:38:29.791 --> 00:38:30.751
was public data anyways,

00:38:30.791 --> 00:38:31.773
like I think they said like some of

00:38:31.813 --> 00:38:32.893
it was like financial data,

00:38:33.253 --> 00:38:34.655
like budgetary and spending.

00:38:35.094 --> 00:38:35.994
So it's like, okay,

00:38:36.775 --> 00:38:38.317
that's probably available somewhere else

00:38:38.356 --> 00:38:39.717
for free and I don't have to log

00:38:39.777 --> 00:38:39.878
in.

00:38:40.257 --> 00:38:43.420
But the AI agent just, it's in sci-fi,

00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:44.501
there's this thought experiment we call

00:38:44.521 --> 00:38:46.101
the paperclip problem, which is like,

00:38:46.141 --> 00:38:48.244
what if you build this like nanobot that

00:38:48.264 --> 00:38:49.844
can break things down at the molecular

00:38:49.885 --> 00:38:51.565
level and you tell it your job is

00:38:51.585 --> 00:38:52.425
to make paperclips.

00:38:52.806 --> 00:38:54.347
If you don't program or if you don't

00:38:54.367 --> 00:38:55.728
give it the very perfect set of

00:38:55.748 --> 00:38:57.349
instructions, like a prompt for example,

00:38:57.949 --> 00:38:59.911
It's going to literally tear everything

00:38:59.952 --> 00:39:01.492
apart at the molecular level and just make

00:39:01.572 --> 00:39:02.833
everything in the universe paperclips.

00:39:03.514 --> 00:39:04.994
And that's the problem here is like when

00:39:05.034 --> 00:39:06.996
you tell these AI agents like, hey,

00:39:07.036 --> 00:39:09.739
go out and get this data from Australian

00:39:09.778 --> 00:39:10.199
Medicare.

00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:12.139
It's just going to do it by whatever

00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:12.860
means possible.

00:39:12.940 --> 00:39:13.521
So yeah,

00:39:13.621 --> 00:39:16.083
it's not – it's just these are the

00:39:16.103 --> 00:39:17.704
kind of things that hopefully someday

00:39:17.744 --> 00:39:18.485
somebody will fix.

00:39:18.585 --> 00:39:20.786
But yeah, I don't know.

00:39:23.025 --> 00:39:24.905
I do think this is one of these

00:39:25.005 --> 00:39:27.106
instances where this is an issue with the

00:39:27.146 --> 00:39:29.128
Australian government and this is an issue

00:39:29.168 --> 00:39:30.969
with the United States government.

00:39:31.010 --> 00:39:32.851
It's an issue with governments in general

00:39:33.331 --> 00:39:36.012
not regulating this stuff enough, like,

00:39:36.333 --> 00:39:36.574
you know.

00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:40.601
This is probably going to set a precedent,

00:39:40.681 --> 00:39:41.001
I think.

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:46.222
You know, a company hacking a random,

00:39:46.302 --> 00:39:46.702
like, you know,

00:39:46.742 --> 00:39:49.083
hacking a public health system is,

00:39:49.202 --> 00:39:50.523
you know, it's a bit problematic.

00:39:50.784 --> 00:39:53.264
And I think it will be interesting to

00:39:53.284 --> 00:39:55.244
see if they do get prosecuted,

00:39:55.784 --> 00:39:58.025
if there is anything that happens like

00:39:58.045 --> 00:39:58.246
this,

00:39:58.266 --> 00:40:00.766
because just because you are running these

00:40:00.846 --> 00:40:02.186
AI agents that are, you know,

00:40:03.106 --> 00:40:05.907
taking actions that if a human did them,

00:40:05.967 --> 00:40:07.427
they would a hundred percent be in jail

00:40:07.447 --> 00:40:08.387
for the rest of their life.

00:40:08.447 --> 00:40:10.068
So, uh,

00:40:10.088 --> 00:40:11.628
we can't just let something off just

00:40:11.668 --> 00:40:15.630
because it's a robot or it's an AI

00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:16.550
or it's an LLM.

00:40:16.851 --> 00:40:17.510
Um, you know,

00:40:17.692 --> 00:40:20.211
if we made bank robbing robots or

00:40:20.251 --> 00:40:21.152
something, you know,

00:40:21.172 --> 00:40:22.532
just cause they're just like robbing the

00:40:22.552 --> 00:40:24.273
bank and it's not you robbing it,

00:40:24.333 --> 00:40:25.534
it's still, it's still you,

00:40:25.715 --> 00:40:26.494
it's still your,

00:40:26.554 --> 00:40:28.155
it's still your contraption that's doing

00:40:28.195 --> 00:40:28.275
it.

00:40:28.335 --> 00:40:28.556
Right.

00:40:29.255 --> 00:40:29.396
Um,

00:40:31.036 --> 00:40:33.117
don't know i just think this is this

00:40:33.157 --> 00:40:35.077
is like a worrying precedent to allow this

00:40:35.097 --> 00:40:38.059
sort of stuff to to fester and there

00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:40.360
needs to be more like controls on on

00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:42.141
these companies from to stop them from

00:40:42.181 --> 00:40:43.961
like you know running research things

00:40:43.981 --> 00:40:46.943
where they're they're probing foreign

00:40:46.983 --> 00:40:49.903
governments um websites and allowing them

00:40:49.963 --> 00:40:51.945
to you know exploit vulnerabilities and

00:40:51.985 --> 00:40:53.306
things um i think that's

00:40:54.815 --> 00:40:56.478
of a major problem but also you know

00:40:56.797 --> 00:40:58.780
maybe medicare pick up your slack a little

00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.362
bit and fix those security issues so yeah

00:41:02.724 --> 00:41:04.106
yeah i just uh i just want to

00:41:04.126 --> 00:41:05.748
say your honor for the record i didn't

00:41:05.788 --> 00:41:07.849
tell the robot to rob a bank i

00:41:07.889 --> 00:41:09.291
just told it to get me as much

00:41:09.331 --> 00:41:10.873
money as possible so

00:41:13.510 --> 00:41:14.469
Yeah,

00:41:14.489 --> 00:41:16.090
Vonnegut Rosewater said the hodgepodge

00:41:16.110 --> 00:41:17.771
healthcare system in the US could be rough

00:41:17.811 --> 00:41:19.132
in this way because you have to give

00:41:19.152 --> 00:41:20.512
your data to so many different providers.

00:41:20.572 --> 00:41:20.753
Yeah,

00:41:20.793 --> 00:41:22.614
and they're all like third parties too,

00:41:22.634 --> 00:41:24.114
which I'm sure Australia does this too,

00:41:24.135 --> 00:41:26.135
but it's all like you go to the

00:41:26.155 --> 00:41:28.498
hospital and they literally...

00:41:29.257 --> 00:41:29.577
Literally,

00:41:29.597 --> 00:41:30.798
this is how my wife gets billed when

00:41:30.818 --> 00:41:31.480
we go to the hospital.

00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:33.260
It's like we get one bill from the

00:41:33.302 --> 00:41:33.981
emergency room,

00:41:34.222 --> 00:41:35.784
but then we also get like a diagnostic

00:41:35.804 --> 00:41:37.164
bill from the radiology company.

00:41:37.184 --> 00:41:38.646
But then we also get another diagnostic

00:41:38.666 --> 00:41:40.106
bill from like the lab that ran the

00:41:40.126 --> 00:41:40.688
blood tests.

00:41:40.728 --> 00:41:41.327
And it's just like,

00:41:41.869 --> 00:41:42.829
who are all these people?

00:41:42.889 --> 00:41:44.811
We spent four hours in one room.

00:41:44.871 --> 00:41:46.072
Where did these people come from?

00:41:46.152 --> 00:41:47.974
So yeah, that's rough.

00:41:49.114 --> 00:41:50.195
And I thought Oddbite was funny here.

00:41:50.815 --> 00:41:51.817
AI has ADHD.

00:41:51.856 --> 00:41:53.358
It hyper focuses on whatever it's doing

00:41:53.398 --> 00:41:54.418
right now and never backs off.

00:41:54.500 --> 00:41:54.619
So.

00:41:56.161 --> 00:41:56.900
I just thought that was funny.

00:41:57.001 --> 00:41:58.021
But yeah,

00:41:58.061 --> 00:41:59.402
definitely let us know what you guys

00:41:59.422 --> 00:41:59.681
think.

00:41:59.842 --> 00:42:01.722
If there's any realistic solutions here,

00:42:02.402 --> 00:42:02.744
as always,

00:42:02.784 --> 00:42:03.864
leave your questions and comments in the

00:42:03.903 --> 00:42:04.164
chat.

00:42:05.244 --> 00:42:05.585
But for now,

00:42:05.625 --> 00:42:07.105
I think we're going to move over into

00:42:07.364 --> 00:42:08.126
site updates.

00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:11.440
And a little bit later,

00:42:11.461 --> 00:42:12.961
we're going to talk about how even your

00:42:13.001 --> 00:42:15.442
wired headphones might be hackable from

00:42:15.481 --> 00:42:16.322
thirty meters away.

00:42:16.362 --> 00:42:17.003
But first,

00:42:17.702 --> 00:42:18.762
we're going to let you guys know,

00:42:18.862 --> 00:42:19.643
if you didn't hear,

00:42:20.422 --> 00:42:22.403
we put out a new video that is

00:42:22.443 --> 00:42:23.923
doing very, very well.

00:42:24.704 --> 00:42:25.824
And if you haven't seen it,

00:42:25.844 --> 00:42:26.585
you should go see it.

00:42:27.264 --> 00:42:28.605
I'm honestly very proud of this video.

00:42:28.724 --> 00:42:30.166
I think it's our best video yet,

00:42:30.186 --> 00:42:30.666
in my opinion.

00:42:33.621 --> 00:42:35.202
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

00:42:35.222 --> 00:42:36.103
it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

00:42:54.101 --> 00:42:55.284
If we have any new viewers here,

00:42:55.864 --> 00:42:57.327
I doubt anybody who didn't like the video

00:42:57.367 --> 00:42:57.887
is watching this,

00:42:57.947 --> 00:42:59.230
but I just want to point out a

00:42:59.250 --> 00:43:00.452
lot of people I've seen in the comments

00:43:00.512 --> 00:43:01.574
on YouTube, a lot of people were like,

00:43:01.773 --> 00:43:01.934
oh,

00:43:01.974 --> 00:43:04.338
you're giving too much praise to Apple and

00:43:04.378 --> 00:43:05.018
this kind of stuff.

00:43:05.059 --> 00:43:06.360
And I just want to point out like,

00:43:07.974 --> 00:43:09.396
we weren't trying to praise Apple,

00:43:09.456 --> 00:43:10.655
but this is a history video.

00:43:10.695 --> 00:43:12.336
This is about a specific incident and

00:43:12.376 --> 00:43:13.036
moment in time.

00:43:13.396 --> 00:43:14.257
And whether you like them or not,

00:43:14.356 --> 00:43:15.838
Apple was on the right side of history

00:43:15.858 --> 00:43:17.398
in that particular moment, I think.

00:43:17.498 --> 00:43:19.179
So it's not so much that we were

00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:20.498
trying to praise Apple.

00:43:20.539 --> 00:43:20.798
It's more,

00:43:20.818 --> 00:43:21.960
we were trying to tell the story in

00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:23.119
an interesting and engaging way,

00:43:23.500 --> 00:43:24.721
which for the record, totally worked.

00:43:24.860 --> 00:43:26.101
I looked at the metrics and we have

00:43:26.121 --> 00:43:27.742
like the best retention we've ever had on

00:43:27.762 --> 00:43:28.202
that video.

00:43:28.702 --> 00:43:30.302
But yeah, it's again,

00:43:30.362 --> 00:43:31.702
not trying to praise Apple, but it's just,

00:43:31.722 --> 00:43:32.463
we were telling a story.

00:43:32.483 --> 00:43:33.824
We tried to make it interesting and Apple

00:43:33.864 --> 00:43:35.563
just so happened to be making the right

00:43:35.603 --> 00:43:36.425
argument in this case.

00:43:36.485 --> 00:43:37.085
But yeah,

00:43:38.206 --> 00:43:38.746
Yeah, again,

00:43:38.826 --> 00:43:39.967
go check it out if you haven't yet.

00:43:40.947 --> 00:43:42.829
We also have a news clips channel on

00:43:42.869 --> 00:43:44.110
YouTube where we're trying to cover about

00:43:44.150 --> 00:43:45.552
two or three big stories each week in

00:43:45.592 --> 00:43:47.012
a vertical format that you can share with

00:43:47.032 --> 00:43:47.813
your friends and family.

00:43:47.873 --> 00:43:49.054
So definitely check that out.

00:43:49.916 --> 00:43:52.719
And we also have a new tier list

00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:55.300
video coming hopefully early next week,

00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:55.880
pretty soon.

00:43:56.362 --> 00:43:57.362
Just recorded that yesterday,

00:43:57.402 --> 00:43:57.963
started editing.

00:43:58.043 --> 00:44:00.125
So that should be fun.

00:44:00.545 --> 00:44:01.686
And yeah,

00:44:01.746 --> 00:44:03.307
Jonah shared the link in the YouTube

00:44:03.327 --> 00:44:03.688
comments.

00:44:04.829 --> 00:44:06.710
Real quick, Monica Rosewater said,

00:44:06.750 --> 00:44:08.652
good timing as the iPhone just came out.

00:44:09.072 --> 00:44:09.811
Actually, to be honest,

00:44:09.851 --> 00:44:11.273
it's good timing because the FBI just got

00:44:11.333 --> 00:44:11.592
hacked,

00:44:11.793 --> 00:44:13.014
and I noticed a lot of people are

00:44:13.034 --> 00:44:14.135
searching for FBI hack,

00:44:14.155 --> 00:44:15.956
and that's leading them to our video.

00:44:16.076 --> 00:44:17.936
So thank you, shiny hunters.

00:44:19.137 --> 00:44:19.657
But on that note,

00:44:19.677 --> 00:44:21.199
I'll turn it over to Jordan to give

00:44:21.219 --> 00:44:22.360
you the rest of the site updates.

00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.061
Yeah, no,

00:44:24.101 --> 00:44:25.641
really exciting stuff with that video.

00:44:26.121 --> 00:44:27.722
It's great to finally see, you know,

00:44:28.922 --> 00:44:31.923
video reaching a lot of people and people

00:44:32.023 --> 00:44:33.965
outside of this bubble, which is awesome.

00:44:34.824 --> 00:44:35.085
But yeah,

00:44:35.105 --> 00:44:36.525
we can dive into some news briefs.

00:44:36.945 --> 00:44:38.766
There was some news briefs this week.

00:44:39.507 --> 00:44:41.487
As usual, privacyguides.org slash news.

00:44:41.547 --> 00:44:43.748
It has basically every,

00:44:44.009 --> 00:44:45.309
we cover like big stories.

00:44:45.748 --> 00:44:47.969
It's usually Freya and Nate are both

00:44:48.150 --> 00:44:50.030
posting updates.

00:44:50.110 --> 00:44:51.670
So if you want to keep up to

00:44:51.690 --> 00:44:53.411
date on updates about

00:44:54.898 --> 00:44:57.699
Privacy, security, adjacent topics,

00:44:58.059 --> 00:44:59.019
definitely check that out.

00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.322
This week we had a couple.

00:45:01.722 --> 00:45:03.362
Discord rolls out revised age

00:45:03.402 --> 00:45:04.083
verification,

00:45:04.123 --> 00:45:05.623
promises privacy improvements.

00:45:06.583 --> 00:45:08.505
The FBI was hacked, like Nate said,

00:45:09.146 --> 00:45:11.367
and there was also a critical Tor

00:45:11.387 --> 00:45:12.067
vulnerability,

00:45:12.288 --> 00:45:14.128
which was patched across all Tor

00:45:14.148 --> 00:45:14.688
components.

00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:16.880
And yeah,

00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:18.460
definitely make sure you're updated if

00:45:18.481 --> 00:45:19.302
you're using Tor.

00:45:19.782 --> 00:45:20.121
But yeah,

00:45:20.163 --> 00:45:22.443
those were some of the updates on news

00:45:22.483 --> 00:45:22.844
briefs.

00:45:22.983 --> 00:45:25.126
And we also had some site changes that

00:45:25.306 --> 00:45:26.427
are coming soon.

00:45:27.027 --> 00:45:29.387
So a couple of small things.

00:45:29.728 --> 00:45:31.829
There was some typos corrected.

00:45:32.349 --> 00:45:34.871
There was some incorrect information about

00:45:35.592 --> 00:45:36.052
MOLLE.

00:45:36.733 --> 00:45:38.534
There was some wording that was fixed on

00:45:38.554 --> 00:45:39.815
the encrypted DNS page.

00:45:40.394 --> 00:45:43.317
And there was also a warning that was

00:45:43.416 --> 00:45:45.378
added on the Windows native metadata.

00:45:46.018 --> 00:45:49.382
removal page so yeah all sort of really

00:45:49.442 --> 00:45:52.045
small updates that will probably be coming

00:45:52.585 --> 00:45:56.648
soon but all small things and hopefully

00:45:56.668 --> 00:45:58.630
we'll have more to share once we have

00:45:58.911 --> 00:46:02.233
a bigger site update ready to push out

00:46:02.893 --> 00:46:03.514
As always,

00:46:03.773 --> 00:46:05.235
all of this is made possible by our

00:46:05.275 --> 00:46:05.715
supporters.

00:46:05.775 --> 00:46:07.275
You can sign up for a membership or

00:46:07.335 --> 00:46:09.715
donate at privacyguides.org or pick up

00:46:09.755 --> 00:46:12.596
some swag at shop.privacyguides.org.

00:46:12.916 --> 00:46:15.077
Privacy Guides is a non-profit which

00:46:15.157 --> 00:46:17.456
researches and shares privacy-related

00:46:17.516 --> 00:46:20.518
information and facilitates a community on

00:46:20.577 --> 00:46:22.818
our forum and matrix where people can ask

00:46:22.858 --> 00:46:25.699
questions and get advice about staying

00:46:25.759 --> 00:46:27.619
private online and preserving their

00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:28.478
digital rights.

00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:31.059
Now let's talk about a textbook example of

00:46:31.099 --> 00:46:32.219
why privacy matters.

00:46:33.503 --> 00:46:34.405
And just as a reminder,

00:46:34.885 --> 00:46:36.585
you can leave your questions in the chat

00:46:36.666 --> 00:46:39.068
and we'll get back to them in between

00:46:39.628 --> 00:46:40.268
stories.

00:46:42.579 --> 00:46:43.179
Alrighty.

00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:43.860
Yeah.

00:46:44.181 --> 00:46:45.621
So I get to talk about draft Kings.

00:46:45.661 --> 00:46:46.543
This will go over well,

00:46:46.583 --> 00:46:48.543
considering I don't ever watch sports

00:46:48.664 --> 00:46:49.605
ever.

00:46:50.144 --> 00:46:50.505
Um,

00:46:50.545 --> 00:46:52.527
so this headline comes from EFF and it

00:46:52.547 --> 00:46:54.367
says draft Kings is using AI to

00:46:54.447 --> 00:46:56.969
supercharge the harms of online behavioral

00:46:57.170 --> 00:46:57.751
advertising.

00:46:58.110 --> 00:46:58.650
Um,

00:46:58.670 --> 00:47:00.172
this is not necessarily a story that I've

00:47:00.211 --> 00:47:01.353
seen like making the rounds,

00:47:01.393 --> 00:47:03.114
but I thought like, uh, you know,

00:47:03.134 --> 00:47:03.815
like Jordan said, I'm like,

00:47:03.835 --> 00:47:05.996
this is literally like the textbook

00:47:06.115 --> 00:47:08.038
example of why privacy matters.

00:47:08.137 --> 00:47:09.099
And so I thought it would be really

00:47:09.139 --> 00:47:10.659
cool to share this with you guys.

00:47:10.820 --> 00:47:10.900
Um,

00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:12.440
Cool may not be the right word,

00:47:12.481 --> 00:47:13.081
but you know what I mean.

00:47:13.222 --> 00:47:14.041
We're going live.

00:47:14.963 --> 00:47:17.666
So this comes from a New York Times

00:47:17.726 --> 00:47:18.045
article.

00:47:18.505 --> 00:47:20.188
They said that DraftKings is using its

00:47:20.248 --> 00:47:21.949
customers betting records to train a

00:47:21.989 --> 00:47:23.971
machine learning model and find losing

00:47:24.130 --> 00:47:24.672
gamblers.

00:47:25.132 --> 00:47:25.552
Once found,

00:47:25.592 --> 00:47:27.153
DraftKings sends these customers targeted

00:47:27.213 --> 00:47:28.775
advertising designed to lure them back to

00:47:28.795 --> 00:47:29.996
the site to place more bets,

00:47:30.336 --> 00:47:31.938
bets that DraftKings thinks will be losing

00:47:32.018 --> 00:47:32.219
ones.

00:47:32.539 --> 00:47:32.938
And of course,

00:47:32.978 --> 00:47:34.501
they have a business incentive to keep

00:47:34.561 --> 00:47:36.141
losing gamblers coming back because those

00:47:36.222 --> 00:47:38.184
users are actually making the site money.

00:47:38.684 --> 00:47:39.184
Unfortunately,

00:47:39.224 --> 00:47:40.646
those considered problem gamblers,

00:47:40.826 --> 00:47:42.788
aka people who repeatedly gamble despite

00:47:42.827 --> 00:47:44.148
harm to themselves or finances or their

00:47:44.168 --> 00:47:45.550
relationships, for example,

00:47:45.630 --> 00:47:46.652
gambling away the rent money,

00:47:46.711 --> 00:47:48.172
gambling away your kid's college fund,

00:47:48.213 --> 00:47:49.134
whatever the case may be,

00:47:49.574 --> 00:47:51.255
they are highly likely to be targeted by

00:47:51.295 --> 00:47:51.655
this model.

00:47:51.996 --> 00:47:53.498
By reengaging these individuals through

00:47:53.518 --> 00:47:55.159
targeted promotions aimed at keeping them

00:47:55.179 --> 00:47:55.719
on the platform,

00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:57.041
DraftKings is capitalizing on their

00:47:57.101 --> 00:47:59.023
vulnerability for profit instead of

00:47:59.063 --> 00:48:00.324
mitigating their risks.

00:48:00.965 --> 00:48:04.326
And EFF said earlier in the article,

00:48:04.686 --> 00:48:05.826
they said that this kind of targeting is

00:48:05.846 --> 00:48:07.507
a form of online behavioral advertising,

00:48:07.527 --> 00:48:08.907
which is when companies personalize ads

00:48:08.947 --> 00:48:10.007
they show you based on data they've

00:48:10.027 --> 00:48:10.748
collected about you.

00:48:11.068 --> 00:48:12.447
The more data a company has,

00:48:12.467 --> 00:48:13.987
the more personalized the ad can be.

00:48:14.809 --> 00:48:18.108
And they also said around here that, yeah,

00:48:18.429 --> 00:48:19.989
predatory online behavioral advertising

00:48:20.030 --> 00:48:20.369
isn't new,

00:48:20.389 --> 00:48:21.969
but companies' use of AI to process data

00:48:21.989 --> 00:48:23.451
and target customers has magnified its

00:48:23.490 --> 00:48:23.811
harms.

00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:26.840
And last but not least,

00:48:26.860 --> 00:48:28.282
they say DraftKings seems to be using

00:48:28.322 --> 00:48:29.963
solely first-party data to target their

00:48:30.083 --> 00:48:30.324
ads,

00:48:30.364 --> 00:48:31.684
meaning that they're only using the data

00:48:31.704 --> 00:48:33.405
collected directly from their users and

00:48:33.465 --> 00:48:35.068
not buying any additional data from third

00:48:35.108 --> 00:48:36.409
parties to fuel the learning model.

00:48:36.949 --> 00:48:38.670
But this highlights how policy solutions

00:48:38.710 --> 00:48:40.431
that only limit third-party data sharing

00:48:40.452 --> 00:48:41.913
and selling would not be enough to prevent

00:48:41.932 --> 00:48:43.313
these predatory advertisements.

00:48:43.934 --> 00:48:44.534
So yeah,

00:48:44.554 --> 00:48:45.896
they're calling for a ban on all

00:48:45.916 --> 00:48:46.757
behavioral ads.

00:48:47.016 --> 00:48:48.737
I personally do not like advertising at

00:48:48.818 --> 00:48:50.980
all, so that's something I can get behind.

00:48:51.099 --> 00:48:51.280
But

00:48:52.193 --> 00:48:53.474
Um, yeah,

00:48:53.494 --> 00:48:54.454
I don't know if we really have any,

00:48:54.474 --> 00:48:56.996
uh, like specific questions on this one,

00:48:57.096 --> 00:48:58.257
but I know for me,

00:48:58.297 --> 00:48:59.436
the thing that jumped out is again,

00:48:59.637 --> 00:49:01.498
textbook example of why privacy matters.

00:49:01.918 --> 00:49:03.818
Um, and it also shows that, you know,

00:49:03.858 --> 00:49:04.119
we,

00:49:04.179 --> 00:49:06.181
we talk a lot about various privacy tools

00:49:06.221 --> 00:49:08.300
like email aliasing, um, you know,

00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:10.643
payment masking, voiceover IP,

00:49:10.702 --> 00:49:12.143
where these tools are available,

00:49:12.643 --> 00:49:14.463
but it's also a reminder to be mindful

00:49:14.483 --> 00:49:15.965
about the actual service you use,

00:49:15.985 --> 00:49:16.184
you know,

00:49:16.264 --> 00:49:18.505
even privacy services like data is data

00:49:18.606 --> 00:49:19.246
and it's there.

00:49:19.407 --> 00:49:20.047
And yeah.

00:49:20.666 --> 00:49:22.628
And try to stick to services.

00:49:22.668 --> 00:49:23.047
First of all,

00:49:23.487 --> 00:49:24.588
ask yourself if you need a service.

00:49:24.668 --> 00:49:26.148
We were just talking about AI.

00:49:27.228 --> 00:49:28.349
Do you really need to be gambling?

00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:29.389
I don't know.

00:49:29.809 --> 00:49:30.730
I don't gamble, so I don't know.

00:49:30.750 --> 00:49:31.751
Maybe I'm not in a room to talk

00:49:31.771 --> 00:49:32.110
about that.

00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:36.192
But just trying to find services that try

00:49:36.211 --> 00:49:37.773
to reduce how much data they collect and

00:49:37.793 --> 00:49:38.393
stuff like that.

00:49:39.657 --> 00:49:40.798
I also thought about the importance of

00:49:40.838 --> 00:49:42.159
like, when you stop using a service,

00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:44.860
actually delete the account, unsubscribe.

00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:46.161
If you used an alias email,

00:49:46.201 --> 00:49:47.561
like turn off that alias email,

00:49:48.001 --> 00:49:48.842
use ad blockers.

00:49:48.902 --> 00:49:50.222
Obviously an ad blocker won't stop them

00:49:50.242 --> 00:49:51.262
from emailing you directly,

00:49:51.302 --> 00:49:52.903
but all that kind of stuff.

00:49:52.983 --> 00:49:55.144
So yeah.

00:49:55.164 --> 00:49:56.385
Do you have anything that I missed on

00:49:56.405 --> 00:49:57.005
this story, Jordan?

00:49:58.626 --> 00:49:59.326
No, I think you've,

00:49:59.586 --> 00:50:01.027
I think you've covered basically

00:50:01.067 --> 00:50:02.208
everything that I would have said.

00:50:03.507 --> 00:50:03.708
Yeah.

00:50:03.847 --> 00:50:04.909
I don't think I have anything more to

00:50:04.969 --> 00:50:05.509
add on this one.

00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:08.920
Cool, cool.

00:50:08.940 --> 00:50:10.119
Viewers, if you have any thoughts,

00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:12.240
how do you balance leisure with privacy?

00:50:12.380 --> 00:50:12.860
I mean, like I said,

00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:13.641
I don't really gamble,

00:50:13.681 --> 00:50:16.021
but I do watch TV.

00:50:16.061 --> 00:50:16.782
I read books.

00:50:17.521 --> 00:50:19.262
So let us know what you guys do.

00:50:20.382 --> 00:50:20.722
Real quick,

00:50:20.762 --> 00:50:21.744
somebody I think tuned in late.

00:50:21.764 --> 00:50:22.943
They're asking about the headline story.

00:50:22.983 --> 00:50:24.324
Did F-Droid really improve their security

00:50:24.344 --> 00:50:24.623
model?

00:50:25.744 --> 00:50:26.005
I mean,

00:50:27.025 --> 00:50:28.146
you can watch the story when it comes

00:50:28.186 --> 00:50:29.126
back up on video on demand.

00:50:29.846 --> 00:50:30.905
They made some improvements.

00:50:30.945 --> 00:50:32.067
We definitely want to see more,

00:50:32.166 --> 00:50:33.987
but it was definitely mostly focused on

00:50:34.067 --> 00:50:35.208
privacy.

00:50:36.041 --> 00:50:37.981
the user interface and user experience.

00:50:38.061 --> 00:50:40.043
But I think on that note,

00:50:40.083 --> 00:50:41.043
I'll turn it over to Jordan,

00:50:41.182 --> 00:50:46.865
and we can talk about this new development

00:50:46.885 --> 00:50:47.905
from Proton, let's call it.

00:50:49.309 --> 00:50:49.610
Yeah,

00:50:49.650 --> 00:50:52.871
so if you haven't already seen Proton's

00:50:52.891 --> 00:50:53.451
announcement,

00:50:53.510 --> 00:50:56.610
it was on their AI section of their

00:50:56.630 --> 00:50:57.452
blog, I guess,

00:50:58.132 --> 00:51:00.211
because now they do have an AI product.

00:51:00.771 --> 00:51:02.952
Proton partners with Apertus.

00:51:03.152 --> 00:51:03.793
Apertus?

00:51:03.952 --> 00:51:04.572
Apertus.

00:51:04.733 --> 00:51:05.273
Apertus.

00:51:05.353 --> 00:51:07.273
I'm going to say Apertus.

00:51:07.293 --> 00:51:09.873
I'm not sure, but that's what they said.

00:51:09.954 --> 00:51:12.414
So Proton partners with Apertus,

00:51:12.434 --> 00:51:15.594
Switzerland's sovereign AI model,

00:51:16.215 --> 00:51:16.614
and

00:51:16.914 --> 00:51:18.115
This is interesting.

00:51:18.235 --> 00:51:21.778
Apertus is a fully open large language

00:51:21.838 --> 00:51:24.701
model developed by researchers at EPFL,

00:51:25.141 --> 00:51:26.561
ETH Zurich,

00:51:26.802 --> 00:51:29.744
and the Swiss National Supercomputing

00:51:29.903 --> 00:51:30.304
Center.

00:51:30.405 --> 00:51:32.346
Its architecture, training data,

00:51:32.445 --> 00:51:34.327
and methods are open and it's trained on

00:51:34.427 --> 00:51:35.829
publicly available data,

00:51:36.289 --> 00:51:37.690
respecting opt-out requests,

00:51:38.130 --> 00:51:40.231
and filtering out personal details.

00:51:40.672 --> 00:51:42.653
To start using Apertus with

00:51:43.333 --> 00:51:44.315
In LUMO,

00:51:44.434 --> 00:51:46.195
you can select a purchase at one point

00:51:46.235 --> 00:51:47.976
five from the model dropdown and start

00:51:48.016 --> 00:51:48.978
chatting as normal.

00:51:49.257 --> 00:51:50.858
Like other conversations in LUMO,

00:51:50.918 --> 00:51:53.940
your chats are protected by zero access

00:51:54.001 --> 00:51:55.603
encryption.

00:51:55.643 --> 00:51:56.382
So basically,

00:51:56.463 --> 00:51:59.485
this is this new model that is a

00:51:59.505 --> 00:52:00.905
little bit more ethical than the other

00:52:00.965 --> 00:52:01.746
ones that are available.

00:52:02.367 --> 00:52:05.710
It is now selectable within LUMO and their

00:52:05.750 --> 00:52:06.130
partners.

00:52:06.190 --> 00:52:08.130
So you can choose to give

00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:11.463
If you choose to give feedback on any

00:52:11.503 --> 00:52:12.264
purchase response,

00:52:12.304 --> 00:52:14.248
tap the thumbs up or thumbs down button

00:52:14.268 --> 00:52:16.291
to send in your feedback and your

00:52:16.331 --> 00:52:18.094
contribution will be anonymized and made

00:52:18.114 --> 00:52:20.097
available to the university research teams

00:52:20.516 --> 00:52:21.679
behind a purchase.

00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:27.523
Yeah, so this is definitely interesting.

00:52:28.344 --> 00:52:30.327
I know most people in our audience are

00:52:30.467 --> 00:52:31.228
anti-AI,

00:52:31.288 --> 00:52:33.130
but I do think I want to touch

00:52:33.190 --> 00:52:35.952
on one aspect of this specifically.

00:52:36.594 --> 00:52:39.376
I think just because something is publicly

00:52:39.677 --> 00:52:40.117
available

00:52:40.958 --> 00:52:43.599
doesn't mean that you have permission to

00:52:44.139 --> 00:52:46.159
use it to train a large language model.

00:52:46.219 --> 00:52:48.780
I think that is one of the issues

00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:49.561
with this language.

00:52:49.681 --> 00:52:52.880
I think it kind of doesn't respect

00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:53.740
people's consent.

00:52:54.882 --> 00:52:56.501
I'm not really sure what they mean when

00:52:56.521 --> 00:52:58.061
they say publicly available data.

00:52:58.461 --> 00:52:59.942
Do they just mean every website on the

00:52:59.961 --> 00:53:01.342
internet that doesn't have an opt-out

00:53:01.382 --> 00:53:01.782
request?

00:53:01.842 --> 00:53:04.663
Because that doesn't seem like you're

00:53:04.702 --> 00:53:05.784
asking for people's consent.

00:53:05.804 --> 00:53:07.043
That just seems like you're assuming

00:53:07.083 --> 00:53:08.143
people's consent, which...

00:53:09.001 --> 00:53:11.782
would say is not that's not consent so

00:53:12.463 --> 00:53:14.443
anyway i think that's that's always an

00:53:14.503 --> 00:53:16.465
issue with these large language models i

00:53:16.485 --> 00:53:19.487
think this is better than um every other

00:53:19.706 --> 00:53:20.927
provider that we've seen that just

00:53:20.987 --> 00:53:23.889
basically just is a black box but i

00:53:23.909 --> 00:53:25.688
think it would be good to get some

00:53:25.708 --> 00:53:26.650
more information on

00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:30.882
how exactly they scrape this data and use

00:53:30.922 --> 00:53:32.782
it to train this AI model.

00:53:33.782 --> 00:53:35.143
It'll also be interesting to see what

00:53:35.204 --> 00:53:36.565
people actually think about this,

00:53:37.184 --> 00:53:39.266
whether it's actually as good as all the

00:53:39.286 --> 00:53:41.588
other ones that scrape every single bit of

00:53:41.608 --> 00:53:42.427
data on the internet.

00:53:42.467 --> 00:53:43.289
So yeah,

00:53:43.389 --> 00:53:45.909
how do you feel about this one, Nate?

00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:50.652
Is this something that you would use or

00:53:50.693 --> 00:53:52.134
is this something that would address some

00:53:52.153 --> 00:53:53.394
of the concerns you have with AI?

00:53:54.978 --> 00:53:55.277
No,

00:53:55.717 --> 00:53:57.759
I think I'm really glad you mentioned the

00:53:57.818 --> 00:53:58.498
opt-out thing.

00:53:58.518 --> 00:54:00.179
It is really great that it has opt-out,

00:54:00.260 --> 00:54:02.800
but those of us in the privacy community

00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:04.561
know that opt-out is usually not our

00:54:04.601 --> 00:54:05.601
preferred way of doing things.

00:54:05.661 --> 00:54:07.963
We prefer that people opt into things.

00:54:08.643 --> 00:54:10.264
And so it's great that they respect

00:54:10.364 --> 00:54:12.204
opt-out, but it's like, yeah,

00:54:12.244 --> 00:54:13.344
how many people are caught up in this

00:54:13.385 --> 00:54:14.284
and they don't even know it?

00:54:14.304 --> 00:54:15.465
And that's really not cool.

00:54:18.021 --> 00:54:18.300
I don't know.

00:54:18.380 --> 00:54:19.422
I think one user,

00:54:20.742 --> 00:54:21.983
I will admit I've done this before and

00:54:22.003 --> 00:54:23.864
I think it's kind of funny in a

00:54:23.884 --> 00:54:24.603
twisted sort of way.

00:54:25.905 --> 00:54:28.106
One user asked Lumo to, you know,

00:54:28.126 --> 00:54:29.467
should I use this Apertus model?

00:54:30.027 --> 00:54:31.608
And Lumo basically said, technically,

00:54:31.628 --> 00:54:32.847
according to independent benchmarks,

00:54:32.927 --> 00:54:35.068
Apertus is roughly on par with GPT-III.

00:54:35.108 --> 00:54:35.389
Five,

00:54:35.750 --> 00:54:37.471
meaning more of a research ready prototype

00:54:37.490 --> 00:54:38.311
than a frontier model.

00:54:38.351 --> 00:54:40.211
The real value lies in ideals.

00:54:40.572 --> 00:54:41.853
such as Swiss Sovereignty and Completely

00:54:41.972 --> 00:54:42.233
Open,

00:54:42.293 --> 00:54:43.574
and in special cases mentioned above,

00:54:43.594 --> 00:54:44.454
for your day-to-day work,

00:54:44.474 --> 00:54:45.454
stick with Lumomax,

00:54:45.494 --> 00:54:48.297
which is Proton's self-hosted

00:54:48.356 --> 00:54:48.996
thingamajigger.

00:54:49.036 --> 00:54:50.297
So I don't know.

00:54:51.518 --> 00:54:51.719
Yeah,

00:54:52.099 --> 00:54:53.440
I probably wouldn't be using it because

00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:54.721
the only reason I would see to use

00:54:54.780 --> 00:54:55.702
it is,

00:54:55.902 --> 00:54:57.583
which I don't use AI a ton.

00:54:57.663 --> 00:54:59.884
I use it for mostly if I'm stuck

00:54:59.903 --> 00:55:01.224
and I'm having writer's block or I can't

00:55:01.244 --> 00:55:01.885
figure out like...

00:55:02.465 --> 00:55:04.005
like this isn't quite landing right.

00:55:04.045 --> 00:55:05.286
What am I doing wrong here?

00:55:06.507 --> 00:55:08.766
Or occasionally I'll use it for like deep

00:55:08.806 --> 00:55:10.248
complex research questions where like I

00:55:10.288 --> 00:55:11.327
type it into a search engine and I

00:55:11.347 --> 00:55:11.827
get nothing.

00:55:11.847 --> 00:55:12.807
And so it's like, all right,

00:55:13.608 --> 00:55:14.449
let me try this again.

00:55:15.068 --> 00:55:16.309
That's usually where it shines for me.

00:55:16.369 --> 00:55:21.510
But it's the thing is like,

00:55:21.809 --> 00:55:22.851
I feel like the main reason I would

00:55:22.931 --> 00:55:25.090
use this is to give feedback because I

00:55:25.110 --> 00:55:26.150
didn't put it in the show notes here,

00:55:26.190 --> 00:55:27.311
but Proton pointed out,

00:55:27.351 --> 00:55:28.132
they said that like

00:55:30.867 --> 00:55:32.309
One of the reasons that AI models are

00:55:32.329 --> 00:55:35.173
so good is because they're constantly

00:55:35.193 --> 00:55:35.934
getting feedback.

00:55:36.014 --> 00:55:36.655
You know, they're,

00:55:36.675 --> 00:55:38.798
they're seeing how people are using it and

00:55:38.858 --> 00:55:39.860
what questions they're asking,

00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:41.362
and they're seeing the followup questions.

00:55:41.929 --> 00:55:43.391
And that's great to make the model better.

00:55:43.411 --> 00:55:44.391
It's abysmal for privacy,

00:55:44.472 --> 00:55:45.512
but it's great to make the model better.

00:55:45.932 --> 00:55:47.434
And since Apertus doesn't really do that,

00:55:48.175 --> 00:55:49.257
I don't even know if they have their

00:55:49.336 --> 00:55:50.478
own actual website.

00:55:50.498 --> 00:55:51.739
I think it's just a model that anybody

00:55:51.778 --> 00:55:52.159
can use.

00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:53.802
They don't really have a way to get

00:55:53.822 --> 00:55:54.242
feedback.

00:55:54.322 --> 00:55:55.923
So by using it and submitting the

00:55:55.943 --> 00:55:56.344
feedback,

00:55:56.704 --> 00:55:58.126
you would be helping solve that problem.

00:55:58.507 --> 00:55:59.186
But at the same time,

00:55:59.246 --> 00:56:01.369
the whole reason I'm using Lumo and Leo

00:56:01.449 --> 00:56:02.951
and stuff like that is because I don't

00:56:02.971 --> 00:56:04.432
want people training on my prompts.

00:56:04.773 --> 00:56:06.032
So I don't know,

00:56:06.293 --> 00:56:07.353
it feels kind of like a double edged

00:56:07.373 --> 00:56:09.795
sword to me where it's, I don't know,

00:56:09.875 --> 00:56:10.715
it's just,

00:56:10.735 --> 00:56:11.775
I don't think it's something I would use.

00:56:11.795 --> 00:56:14.295
But I really like, I guess more,

00:56:14.396 --> 00:56:15.516
I don't see a reason to use it

00:56:15.637 --> 00:56:16.737
other than to submit feedback,

00:56:16.757 --> 00:56:18.378
which I don't see why I would submit

00:56:18.418 --> 00:56:19.318
feedback personally.

00:56:19.398 --> 00:56:19.577
So

00:56:20.858 --> 00:56:22.320
It's, I don't know,

00:56:22.619 --> 00:56:24.061
I admire the ethos and I think it's

00:56:24.081 --> 00:56:24.101
a,

00:56:24.121 --> 00:56:25.181
I don't know if I already said this,

00:56:25.202 --> 00:56:25.563
but it's like,

00:56:25.983 --> 00:56:28.764
it's almost like the least crappy model we

00:56:28.804 --> 00:56:29.365
have so far.

00:56:29.445 --> 00:56:30.005
Maybe not the least,

00:56:30.025 --> 00:56:30.987
there may be a better one out there

00:56:31.007 --> 00:56:31.567
I'm not aware of,

00:56:31.606 --> 00:56:33.509
but it's definitely a step up from things

00:56:33.548 --> 00:56:34.650
like, you know, like open AI,

00:56:34.690 --> 00:56:35.130
where it's like, well,

00:56:35.150 --> 00:56:36.351
you're in this training data and that just

00:56:36.371 --> 00:56:36.911
sucks to suck.

00:56:36.931 --> 00:56:38.072
There's nothing you can do about it.

00:56:39.172 --> 00:56:40.614
And also you can't see how it's trained

00:56:40.634 --> 00:56:41.835
and how it's weighted and all these other

00:56:41.894 --> 00:56:42.195
issues.

00:56:42.255 --> 00:56:45.978
But yeah, I don't know.

00:56:46.018 --> 00:56:46.358
I don't know.

00:56:46.478 --> 00:56:47.219
I don't know what to think of it.

00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:48.820
I feel very conflicted.

00:56:50.969 --> 00:56:51.269
Yeah,

00:56:51.829 --> 00:56:53.311
I think it's interesting to see that,

00:56:53.751 --> 00:56:56.572
you know, Proton, I think, in general,

00:56:57.134 --> 00:56:58.914
does take the right steps on things.

00:56:59.114 --> 00:57:01.577
And I think considering they're doing,

00:57:02.556 --> 00:57:03.637
you know, AI stuff,

00:57:03.797 --> 00:57:05.139
they're trying to move in the right

00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:05.539
direction.

00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:07.940
They're trying to do best by the community

00:57:08.001 --> 00:57:08.782
by, you know,

00:57:08.822 --> 00:57:10.782
supporting models that are more ethical.

00:57:11.684 --> 00:57:13.465
I think this is, you know,

00:57:13.905 --> 00:57:16.327
a good direction considering they are

00:57:16.467 --> 00:57:18.047
choosing to, you know,

00:57:18.896 --> 00:57:19.838
work with AI stuff,

00:57:19.858 --> 00:57:22.539
which I think is certainly a choice,

00:57:23.318 --> 00:57:25.199
but it kind of makes sense considering

00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:28.342
Proton's move to basically become a sort

00:57:28.382 --> 00:57:29.521
of replacement for Google,

00:57:30.123 --> 00:57:32.943
replacement for mainstream options.

00:57:33.043 --> 00:57:35.746
And it makes sense for them to basically

00:57:36.166 --> 00:57:39.688
have options like that available to

00:57:39.728 --> 00:57:41.949
businesses and also individuals.

00:57:41.969 --> 00:57:42.148
So

00:57:42.782 --> 00:57:44.905
I think this is the right direction to

00:57:44.945 --> 00:57:46.045
partner with Apertus.

00:57:46.485 --> 00:57:47.648
Even if the model isn't as good,

00:57:47.987 --> 00:57:49.429
I'm sure it's going to be appealing to

00:57:49.530 --> 00:57:50.090
some people.

00:57:50.952 --> 00:57:51.753
But quickly here,

00:57:52.032 --> 00:57:53.855
we did have a couple of comments real

00:57:53.875 --> 00:57:54.115
quick.

00:57:54.916 --> 00:57:57.478
There is someone named, username is Nye.

00:57:57.579 --> 00:57:59.641
Thank you for just joining the channel and

00:57:59.661 --> 00:58:00.202
subscribing.

00:58:00.242 --> 00:58:01.304
Really appreciate it.

00:58:02.505 --> 00:58:04.706
It's good to have so many.

00:58:04.746 --> 00:58:07.206
We are having a lot of new subscribers

00:58:07.246 --> 00:58:08.847
coming in just because of the video has

00:58:08.887 --> 00:58:09.768
been doing quite well.

00:58:09.847 --> 00:58:12.148
So welcome to anyone who's watching for

00:58:12.168 --> 00:58:12.728
the first time.

00:58:12.768 --> 00:58:14.630
I hope you're enjoying the stream.

00:58:16.775 --> 00:58:19.398
Yeah, we had another Ayakov F-One.

00:58:19.538 --> 00:58:20.518
I hope I pronounced that right.

00:58:20.659 --> 00:58:21.619
If I didn't, I apologize.

00:58:21.659 --> 00:58:22.320
Welcome, welcome.

00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:24.302
Very, very happy to have you guys here.

00:58:24.322 --> 00:58:26.123
I don't know if they've all been claimed,

00:58:26.164 --> 00:58:27.965
but I know Jonah gave out five gift

00:58:28.025 --> 00:58:28.565
memberships,

00:58:28.646 --> 00:58:30.007
and there may still be some left if

00:58:30.027 --> 00:58:30.648
you're on YouTube,

00:58:30.688 --> 00:58:31.869
so definitely check that out.

00:58:32.967 --> 00:58:35.148
Yeah, if the audience has any opinions,

00:58:35.509 --> 00:58:35.829
again,

00:58:36.128 --> 00:58:38.409
does this solve some of your concerns with

00:58:38.489 --> 00:58:38.851
AI?

00:58:38.891 --> 00:58:40.251
Which ones does it not solve?

00:58:40.612 --> 00:58:42.193
I know there's still energy concerns and

00:58:42.213 --> 00:58:43.012
all that kind of stuff.

00:58:44.894 --> 00:58:46.094
But I don't think I have anything else

00:58:46.114 --> 00:58:46.876
to add on that one.

00:58:46.956 --> 00:58:50.277
So I think we can move on to

00:58:51.057 --> 00:58:52.980
our final story here.

00:58:54.362 --> 00:58:55.842
Yeah, this is actually our final story.

00:58:55.943 --> 00:58:57.344
So if any of you have any questions

00:58:57.384 --> 00:58:58.724
or comments that you've been holding on

00:58:58.764 --> 00:58:59.025
to,

00:59:00.005 --> 00:59:03.367
definitely feel free to drop them in the

00:59:03.427 --> 00:59:03.786
chat.

00:59:05.148 --> 00:59:07.630
And we are going to talk about how

00:59:07.670 --> 00:59:09.911
researchers found a way to eavesdrop on

00:59:10.030 --> 00:59:11.972
headphones from up to

00:59:17.528 --> 00:59:19.391
This came from some researchers in Hong

00:59:19.411 --> 00:59:21.313
Kong who have developed a technique that

00:59:21.454 --> 00:59:24.277
uses injected radio waves or radio signals

00:59:24.297 --> 00:59:26.539
to extract audio and other information.

00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:28.762
They're calling it Inject Eve,

00:59:29.161 --> 00:59:30.923
and it targets analog components that can

00:59:30.963 --> 00:59:32.545
leak signals too weak to capture through

00:59:32.565 --> 00:59:33.887
conventional electromagnetic

00:59:34.108 --> 00:59:34.688
eavesdropping.

00:59:36.851 --> 00:59:38.574
They, again, as the headline says,

00:59:38.614 --> 00:59:39.956
they discovered that they could get

00:59:40.056 --> 00:59:41.699
understandable headphone audio from up to

00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:45.125
thirty meters away, which I'm American,

00:59:45.166 --> 00:59:45.806
so I apologize,

00:59:45.827 --> 00:59:47.610
but I want to say that's about ninety

00:59:47.630 --> 00:59:48.530
feet, give or take.

00:59:50.333 --> 00:59:51.253
A little bit less than that, I think.

00:59:51.795 --> 00:59:54.297
And including through walls.

00:59:54.557 --> 00:59:56.139
So that's pretty far away.

00:59:58.101 --> 00:59:59.043
So they say that traditional

00:59:59.123 --> 01:00:00.704
electromagnetic side channel attacks rely

01:00:00.724 --> 01:00:02.427
on passively collecting radiation emitted

01:00:02.447 --> 01:00:03.108
by electronics.

01:00:03.449 --> 01:00:04.849
That's often difficult with audio since

01:00:04.929 --> 01:00:06.291
low frequency signals produce weak

01:00:06.331 --> 01:00:07.653
emissions that get lost easily in

01:00:07.673 --> 01:00:08.394
background noise.

01:00:08.815 --> 01:00:10.157
Injective takes a different route.

01:00:10.217 --> 01:00:11.898
An attacker transmits an electromagnetic

01:00:11.918 --> 01:00:13.460
signal toward a device at a frequency

01:00:13.481 --> 01:00:15.023
between zero and nine megahertz.

01:00:15.864 --> 01:00:17.105
The researchers did not disclose the

01:00:17.144 --> 01:00:18.126
precise settings needed.

01:00:18.387 --> 01:00:18.967
Thankfully,

01:00:20.108 --> 01:00:22.632
they said that some of this goes over

01:00:22.672 --> 01:00:23.652
my head, not all of it,

01:00:23.672 --> 01:00:24.072
but some of it.

01:00:24.733 --> 01:00:24.994
Um,

01:00:25.014 --> 01:00:26.795
the injected signal interacts with

01:00:26.875 --> 01:00:28.315
nonlinear parts inside the device,

01:00:28.356 --> 01:00:29.197
including amplifiers,

01:00:29.297 --> 01:00:30.396
analog to digital converters,

01:00:30.436 --> 01:00:32.597
power converters, and switching MOSFETs,

01:00:32.657 --> 01:00:33.318
whatever those are.

01:00:33.858 --> 01:00:34.239
Uh,

01:00:34.259 --> 01:00:35.820
those components can mix the injected RF

01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:37.320
signal with audio or other low frequency

01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:37.721
activity.

01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:39.402
And the device then emits a modified

01:00:39.422 --> 01:00:40.802
signal that nearby radio equipment can

01:00:40.822 --> 01:00:41.682
pick up and analyze.

01:00:41.702 --> 01:00:43.623
And there's a pretty complex looking

01:00:43.664 --> 01:00:45.585
picture here that, uh,

01:00:45.644 --> 01:00:49.166
if you go read the article, um,

01:00:49.186 --> 01:00:49.847
then it, uh,

01:00:50.847 --> 01:00:51.909
I think it makes sense once you've read

01:00:51.949 --> 01:00:52.309
the article.

01:00:52.349 --> 01:00:53.150
If you come back and look at this

01:00:53.190 --> 01:00:53.909
picture, I was like, okay,

01:00:53.989 --> 01:00:55.391
now I see what I'm looking at here.

01:00:55.471 --> 01:00:59.273
But so the researchers used a USRP

01:00:59.393 --> 01:01:03.856
B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B

01:01:06.438 --> 01:01:08.239
And they also used an RF power amplifier

01:01:08.259 --> 01:01:09.559
in some tests to increase the range.

01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:11.360
They tested eleven commercial products,

01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:12.320
including the Sony

01:01:12.561 --> 01:01:25.067
ZX-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-

01:01:32.791 --> 01:01:33.311
and Xiaomi,

01:01:33.371 --> 01:01:35.373
as well as lamps from Xin Zhao and

01:01:35.414 --> 01:01:35.894
Xiaomi.

01:01:36.815 --> 01:01:37.976
Apologies if I mess those up.

01:01:39.378 --> 01:01:40.018
According to the paper,

01:01:40.059 --> 01:01:42.601
most test works at distances greater than

01:01:42.641 --> 01:01:43.242
two meters.

01:01:45.434 --> 01:01:47.737
Let's see, there was one other part here.

01:01:47.836 --> 01:01:48.177
Oh, yes.

01:01:48.538 --> 01:01:50.278
The team also tested scenarios involving

01:01:50.318 --> 01:01:51.940
equipment hidden in a suitcase behind a

01:01:52.001 --> 01:01:54.202
hotel room wall or inside office

01:01:54.222 --> 01:01:54.603
furniture.

01:01:54.963 --> 01:01:56.565
The experiment suggested that the attack

01:01:56.585 --> 01:01:58.226
could be carried out outside of a lab,

01:01:58.507 --> 01:02:00.047
although it still requires nearby radio

01:02:00.068 --> 01:02:01.349
equipment and knowledge of how a given

01:02:01.369 --> 01:02:03.110
device responds to the injected signal.

01:02:03.650 --> 01:02:04.871
Headphones and phones are the most obvious

01:02:04.891 --> 01:02:06.172
targets because they may carry private

01:02:06.193 --> 01:02:06.753
conversations,

01:02:06.773 --> 01:02:07.855
but the technique could also reveal

01:02:07.914 --> 01:02:08.996
activity in a home or office.

01:02:09.309 --> 01:02:10.250
With smart lamps and fans,

01:02:10.269 --> 01:02:11.550
the team said it could capture control

01:02:11.590 --> 01:02:13.231
signals and power use patterns that may

01:02:13.293 --> 01:02:14.873
indicate when devices are being used.

01:02:16.014 --> 01:02:17.476
They said conventional digital protections

01:02:17.516 --> 01:02:18.936
don't stop this attack because leakage

01:02:18.956 --> 01:02:20.699
occurs in the analog hardware path rather

01:02:20.739 --> 01:02:22.119
than encrypted data or software.

01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:24.101
And finally, they said shielding,

01:02:24.161 --> 01:02:24.621
filtering,

01:02:24.702 --> 01:02:26.364
and twisted pair wiring can reduce the

01:02:26.403 --> 01:02:27.684
amount of RF energy that reaches

01:02:27.724 --> 01:02:28.585
vulnerable components.

01:02:29.447 --> 01:02:30.847
They may make the attack harder to carry

01:02:30.907 --> 01:02:33.349
out, but they do not guarantee protection.

01:02:33.771 --> 01:02:33.990
So...

01:02:36.143 --> 01:02:37.744
Pretty fascinating stuff there.

01:02:38.485 --> 01:02:40.807
I think I'll bring Jordan back in here

01:02:40.827 --> 01:02:42.728
for the analysis section.

01:02:43.909 --> 01:02:45.791
So do you think with everything I just

01:02:45.871 --> 01:02:46.431
read off there,

01:02:46.452 --> 01:02:47.492
do you think this is something that our

01:02:47.512 --> 01:02:48.634
viewers should worry about?

01:02:48.914 --> 01:02:51.856
Or do you think this is pretty unlikely

01:02:52.016 --> 01:02:53.456
to be executed in the wild?

01:02:54.197 --> 01:02:55.639
It does seem like this is one of

01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:56.820
these things where it's like,

01:02:58.074 --> 01:03:00.039
It kind of needs someone who knows a

01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:03.284
lot about how to do this, right?

01:03:03.304 --> 01:03:05.208
It requires a high level of knowledge,

01:03:05.668 --> 01:03:06.891
specific equipment,

01:03:07.211 --> 01:03:08.635
which is kind of a concern.

01:03:10.306 --> 01:03:12.829
That's probably we don't really know the

01:03:12.869 --> 01:03:13.148
cost.

01:03:13.248 --> 01:03:15.811
I don't think they said the amount of

01:03:15.851 --> 01:03:17.032
equipment that's required for this,

01:03:17.072 --> 01:03:19.713
but I'm sure it's pretty expensive

01:03:19.753 --> 01:03:20.414
equipment, right?

01:03:20.835 --> 01:03:22.577
It's not just something that the average

01:03:22.617 --> 01:03:25.039
person can just find or make, right?

01:03:25.659 --> 01:03:27.721
Well, it's a few thousand dollars.

01:03:27.740 --> 01:03:28.721
So they had a laptop.

01:03:29.862 --> 01:03:31.182
RF power amplifiers,

01:03:31.443 --> 01:03:32.483
depending on what you get.

01:03:32.603 --> 01:03:34.826
I know in my past with audio video,

01:03:34.885 --> 01:03:35.987
I used to use those all the time.

01:03:37.472 --> 01:03:39.454
Depending on what you get, kind of pricey,

01:03:39.494 --> 01:03:40.795
like, five hundred to a thousand dollars,

01:03:40.835 --> 01:03:41.655
somewhere in that range.

01:03:41.795 --> 01:03:42.976
Again, depending on which one you get.

01:03:43.496 --> 01:03:44.737
Spectrum Analyzer is actually pretty

01:03:44.757 --> 01:03:44.998
cheap.

01:03:45.018 --> 01:03:46.057
You can get those for about a hundred

01:03:46.077 --> 01:03:47.840
bucks on Amazon.

01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:49.121
Don't use Amazon, but I'm just saying.

01:03:50.782 --> 01:03:52.123
The radio and the antennas,

01:03:52.182 --> 01:03:53.204
I'm less sure about.

01:03:53.244 --> 01:03:54.445
But I would say, all in all, like,

01:03:55.344 --> 01:03:56.626
I certainly couldn't afford it.

01:03:57.246 --> 01:03:58.307
But it's definitely not, like,

01:03:58.367 --> 01:03:59.849
nation state expensive.

01:03:59.989 --> 01:04:01.769
You could build a rig for probably a

01:04:01.809 --> 01:04:02.771
couple thousand dollars.

01:04:03.771 --> 01:04:03.972
So...

01:04:04.934 --> 01:04:06.635
I think also, I think, you know,

01:04:06.675 --> 01:04:08.217
if it's like an intelligence agency,

01:04:08.277 --> 01:04:09.177
I think there would be,

01:04:10.057 --> 01:04:11.458
they would probably have access to much

01:04:11.518 --> 01:04:12.940
more advanced equipment that could

01:04:12.980 --> 01:04:14.601
probably do something like this, right?

01:04:14.641 --> 01:04:16.702
Like at a much larger scale or with

01:04:16.722 --> 01:04:19.123
a much, a much larger ability,

01:04:19.143 --> 01:04:21.625
like they have a ridiculous budget to do

01:04:21.644 --> 01:04:22.186
this sort of thing.

01:04:22.226 --> 01:04:25.748
But I think the main thing for viewers

01:04:25.947 --> 01:04:27.829
is, you know, the average person, like,

01:04:27.889 --> 01:04:29.269
is this something that someone could

01:04:29.750 --> 01:04:30.731
really do?

01:04:31.137 --> 01:04:33.418
rig up quickly and easily the answer is

01:04:33.518 --> 01:04:35.599
no um this is like you know someone's

01:04:35.619 --> 01:04:37.760
gonna have to spend like nate said a

01:04:37.820 --> 01:04:39.981
couple thousand bucks maybe a couple

01:04:40.021 --> 01:04:41.483
hundred bucks let's say a couple hundred

01:04:41.503 --> 01:04:45.224
bucks maybe if it's like super cheap um

01:04:45.304 --> 01:04:47.684
but i still think you know it requires

01:04:47.724 --> 01:04:50.385
someone who's close by in proximity

01:04:50.547 --> 01:04:53.148
because as nate said in the story this

01:04:53.188 --> 01:04:55.228
is something it's like thirty meters away

01:04:55.829 --> 01:04:57.590
that's pretty close that's not that far

01:04:57.630 --> 01:04:59.710
but that is yeah relatively speaking

01:04:59.871 --> 01:05:00.570
that's pretty close

01:05:01.226 --> 01:05:02.407
Relatively speaking, yeah,

01:05:02.427 --> 01:05:04.268
it's not something that can be operated

01:05:04.889 --> 01:05:05.748
from a distance.

01:05:05.949 --> 01:05:06.650
So, you know,

01:05:06.789 --> 01:05:08.130
it kind of reduces the threat

01:05:08.331 --> 01:05:09.731
significantly in that aspect.

01:05:11.353 --> 01:05:13.135
I think one of these things that could

01:05:13.175 --> 01:05:15.416
become a little scary is if this is

01:05:17.115 --> 01:05:18.996
becomes a lot cheaper because I do

01:05:19.036 --> 01:05:22.119
remember that this was an issue with, uh,

01:05:22.298 --> 01:05:23.500
wifi access points.

01:05:23.719 --> 01:05:24.039
Um,

01:05:24.059 --> 01:05:25.802
there was a way to basically track

01:05:25.842 --> 01:05:27.702
people's location using wifi access

01:05:27.722 --> 01:05:28.043
points.

01:05:28.222 --> 01:05:30.264
And there was an easier method that was

01:05:30.324 --> 01:05:31.965
discovered that didn't require as much

01:05:32.005 --> 01:05:34.007
equipment and it made it a lot easier.

01:05:34.086 --> 01:05:34.927
So this sort of thing,

01:05:35.608 --> 01:05:37.509
if there's some way that someone works

01:05:37.608 --> 01:05:38.048
out, you know,

01:05:38.068 --> 01:05:39.769
a way to make something more compact,

01:05:39.849 --> 01:05:40.590
much more cheaper,

01:05:41.170 --> 01:05:41.451
you know,

01:05:41.851 --> 01:05:43.572
that's where it could become a threat that

01:05:43.632 --> 01:05:46.574
we would consider being concerned about.

01:05:46.634 --> 01:05:47.114
But again,

01:05:47.235 --> 01:05:48.775
the distance that you have to be from

01:05:48.876 --> 01:05:51.197
someone, the equipment that you need,

01:05:51.677 --> 01:05:53.438
it's just extremely unlikely.

01:05:53.878 --> 01:05:56.280
I don't think the average person is going

01:05:56.300 --> 01:05:57.201
to have to worry about this.

01:05:57.621 --> 01:05:59.661
I do think that this is going to

01:05:59.681 --> 01:06:02.304
be a pretty big issue for people like

01:06:02.903 --> 01:06:05.764
the FBI or like secret intelligence

01:06:05.864 --> 01:06:07.025
agencies, because, you know,

01:06:07.085 --> 01:06:08.565
now there's going to be people sitting in

01:06:08.605 --> 01:06:10.126
their car pointing this at the,

01:06:10.226 --> 01:06:11.746
at the building and they might be able

01:06:11.766 --> 01:06:13.306
to hear things or, you know,

01:06:13.347 --> 01:06:13.867
stuff like that.

01:06:13.887 --> 01:06:15.407
That's going to be a problem for the

01:06:15.427 --> 01:06:17.807
big people, but for us little people,

01:06:17.967 --> 01:06:20.367
it is not, uh, a huge concern.

01:06:20.487 --> 01:06:21.088
I don't think.

01:06:21.648 --> 01:06:23.128
Um, but yeah, what about,

01:06:23.208 --> 01:06:24.009
do you think there's any,

01:06:24.469 --> 01:06:26.210
any real lessons to take away from this

01:06:26.469 --> 01:06:27.530
or, um,

01:06:29.172 --> 01:06:30.172
Um, I dunno,

01:06:30.213 --> 01:06:31.853
I think I was trying to kind of

01:06:32.034 --> 01:06:33.235
rack my brain for that.

01:06:33.355 --> 01:06:34.516
And the best thing I can come up

01:06:34.536 --> 01:06:35.998
with is just a reminder that nothing is

01:06:36.057 --> 01:06:36.597
unhackable.

01:06:36.878 --> 01:06:37.478
Um, I actually,

01:06:37.898 --> 01:06:39.681
there was a question here from a username

01:06:39.721 --> 01:06:41.081
is Nye who said, uh,

01:06:41.101 --> 01:06:42.222
you didn't catch the article reading.

01:06:42.262 --> 01:06:43.423
Is this only via Bluetooth,

01:06:43.443 --> 01:06:44.525
like bypassing protocols?

01:06:44.605 --> 01:06:48.327
No, it's, it's, um, basically like, uh,

01:06:48.347 --> 01:06:49.489
without rereading the article,

01:06:49.509 --> 01:06:50.570
it's almost like one of those remote

01:06:50.630 --> 01:06:52.471
microphones kind of I'm oversimplifying

01:06:52.510 --> 01:06:53.733
dramatically, but yeah.

01:06:53.753 --> 01:06:55.014
So this even works on like wired

01:06:55.034 --> 01:06:55.833
headphones and everything.

01:06:55.893 --> 01:06:56.594
Cause it happens.

01:06:56.996 --> 01:06:58.478
in the analog portion when it's already

01:06:58.498 --> 01:07:00.280
been decrypted and it's raw audio that

01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:01.302
humans would understand.

01:07:01.362 --> 01:07:03.324
So, you know,

01:07:03.344 --> 01:07:04.606
we always try to remind people that like

01:07:04.666 --> 01:07:06.927
nothing is unhackable and the goal of

01:07:06.967 --> 01:07:07.768
privacy and security,

01:07:07.809 --> 01:07:09.130
like that's why we're big fans of threat

01:07:09.170 --> 01:07:11.574
modeling is the goal is not to completely

01:07:11.614 --> 01:07:13.396
eliminate risk because that is impossible.

01:07:13.835 --> 01:07:14.637
The goal is to,

01:07:15.992 --> 01:07:19.153
basically uh there's an old joke um i

01:07:19.173 --> 01:07:20.273
know i've told this before but really

01:07:20.313 --> 01:07:21.733
really quick there's two hikers walking in

01:07:21.753 --> 01:07:22.974
the woods and all of a sudden they

01:07:22.994 --> 01:07:24.215
see a bear and one of them sits

01:07:24.235 --> 01:07:25.434
down and starts swapping out his hiking

01:07:25.454 --> 01:07:27.155
shoes for hiking boots for running shoes

01:07:27.554 --> 01:07:28.596
and the other hiker's like dude what are

01:07:28.615 --> 01:07:29.675
you doing you can't outrun a bear and

01:07:29.695 --> 01:07:30.556
he goes that's fine i don't need to

01:07:30.576 --> 01:07:31.635
outrun the bear i just need to outrun

01:07:31.675 --> 01:07:34.036
you and uh it's very selfish but that's

01:07:34.056 --> 01:07:35.436
kind of how cyber security is it's like

01:07:35.456 --> 01:07:37.396
you just want to be such a difficult

01:07:37.436 --> 01:07:38.697
target that you're just not worth the

01:07:38.737 --> 01:07:40.577
effort and so um

01:07:41.416 --> 01:07:41.637
Yeah.

01:07:41.677 --> 01:07:42.757
That's, that's kind of the point of,

01:07:42.978 --> 01:07:43.838
of privacy and security.

01:07:43.858 --> 01:07:45.239
Cause again, nothing is unhackable.

01:07:45.340 --> 01:07:46.920
So I think that's kind of what I

01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:48.262
take away from stories like this is just

01:07:48.302 --> 01:07:49.583
like, you mentioned the whole like wifi,

01:07:49.603 --> 01:07:51.324
like you can use access points and waves

01:07:51.344 --> 01:07:53.365
to like pinpoint people through walls.

01:07:53.465 --> 01:07:53.826
And it's just,

01:07:54.306 --> 01:07:55.507
that can be kind of depressing,

01:07:55.527 --> 01:07:56.188
but at the same time,

01:07:56.208 --> 01:07:56.889
it's also just like, yeah,

01:07:56.909 --> 01:07:59.289
it's a reminder that there's literally

01:07:59.329 --> 01:08:00.291
nothing unhackable.

01:08:00.371 --> 01:08:01.911
And the,

01:08:01.931 --> 01:08:03.032
the thing that scares me about these

01:08:03.052 --> 01:08:05.014
stories is that right now this costs

01:08:05.054 --> 01:08:06.916
thousands of dollars and requires very

01:08:06.936 --> 01:08:07.856
specialized knowledge,

01:08:07.916 --> 01:08:08.077
but

01:08:08.891 --> 01:08:10.271
who knows, you know, in twenty years,

01:08:10.311 --> 01:08:11.612
these components might be so cheap,

01:08:11.652 --> 01:08:12.811
or there might be something built into

01:08:12.972 --> 01:08:13.753
iPhones that, like,

01:08:13.833 --> 01:08:15.793
anybody can do this with, you know,

01:08:15.893 --> 01:08:17.814
a thirty dollar cable in a couple hours

01:08:17.854 --> 01:08:18.274
of time,

01:08:18.373 --> 01:08:21.335
so I think it's just good to be

01:08:21.354 --> 01:08:23.256
aware of this stuff, I think, so.

01:08:24.953 --> 01:08:27.634
um definitely oh actually i'm glad you

01:08:27.694 --> 01:08:29.594
asked this this reminded me um you said

01:08:29.614 --> 01:08:30.935
uh can they only eavesdrop on

01:08:30.975 --> 01:08:32.375
conversations but they can't mute or

01:08:32.475 --> 01:08:34.536
override the content um i think somebody

01:08:34.655 --> 01:08:37.377
in the supporter chat said i don't know

01:08:37.396 --> 01:08:38.537
if it was the same talk or a

01:08:38.596 --> 01:08:42.658
different talk but they said that um there

01:08:42.757 --> 01:08:47.220
is actually an attack that can um control

01:08:47.260 --> 01:08:49.541
the active device on the phone but i

01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:50.860
think that's more of a bluetooth

01:08:52.011 --> 01:08:54.292
Yeah, Bluetooth can not only be hacked,

01:08:54.332 --> 01:08:55.773
but the connection can be used to control

01:08:55.813 --> 01:08:57.354
the active device such as your phone.

01:08:57.453 --> 01:08:59.916
So I don't know if that's related to

01:08:59.956 --> 01:09:00.496
this attack.

01:09:00.796 --> 01:09:03.917
I have not had a chance to read

01:09:03.938 --> 01:09:04.578
through that article,

01:09:04.597 --> 01:09:05.838
but there are attacks that can do that

01:09:05.878 --> 01:09:06.460
for sure.

01:09:06.500 --> 01:09:08.461
So yeah,

01:09:10.122 --> 01:09:12.042
apparently a MOSFET is a type of

01:09:12.082 --> 01:09:12.703
transistor,

01:09:12.882 --> 01:09:14.663
and I need to watch more Lewis Rossman.

01:09:15.064 --> 01:09:16.565
So I suck for that.

01:09:19.173 --> 01:09:20.135
Somebody, I hope you're joking,

01:09:20.175 --> 01:09:21.275
said you're going to dump your Pixel for

01:09:21.296 --> 01:09:22.877
an iPhone because of our iPhone video.

01:09:23.438 --> 01:09:24.059
Please don't do that.

01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:27.381
iPhones are very secure even to this day,

01:09:27.440 --> 01:09:29.342
but we definitely still prefer Pixels.

01:09:29.363 --> 01:09:30.064
They're a lot more open.

01:09:31.395 --> 01:09:31.595
Yeah.

01:09:31.635 --> 01:09:32.735
I think also just,

01:09:32.876 --> 01:09:34.296
just to be clear with that video,

01:09:34.435 --> 01:09:38.837
we tried to be as unbiased and like,

01:09:39.057 --> 01:09:42.560
you know, not completely glaze Apple,

01:09:42.619 --> 01:09:46.360
not completely defend like Apple and also,

01:09:46.381 --> 01:09:47.481
you know, steel man,

01:09:47.502 --> 01:09:48.582
the FBI a little bit.

01:09:49.063 --> 01:09:49.682
So, you know,

01:09:50.182 --> 01:09:51.663
I think it's important to have a sort

01:09:51.703 --> 01:09:53.564
of balanced opinion on things.

01:09:54.746 --> 01:09:56.627
I think we were pretty fair on what

01:09:56.686 --> 01:09:58.148
Apple was doing in this case.

01:09:58.708 --> 01:10:01.270
I think Apple, like Nate said before,

01:10:01.350 --> 01:10:02.930
Apple was in the right in this instance

01:10:03.431 --> 01:10:05.672
and, you know, obviously in the right.

01:10:06.274 --> 01:10:08.635
So obviously we're going to be supportive

01:10:08.975 --> 01:10:11.136
of their stance here, but like,

01:10:12.662 --> 01:10:13.902
at no point in the video did we

01:10:14.002 --> 01:10:16.443
recommend using an iPhone or anything like

01:10:16.462 --> 01:10:16.682
that.

01:10:16.722 --> 01:10:18.023
So I'm not sure what, if,

01:10:18.143 --> 01:10:19.563
did you watch the same video as us?

01:10:19.582 --> 01:10:21.844
Uh, I'm not sure, but, um,

01:10:22.564 --> 01:10:24.344
it's definitely, uh, I can, I can,

01:10:24.604 --> 01:10:25.944
I'm going to assume that you're joking.

01:10:26.363 --> 01:10:28.725
Um, cause that would be kind of funny.

01:10:29.324 --> 01:10:29.465
Um,

01:10:29.484 --> 01:10:31.824
they also said I wouldn't mind them if

01:10:31.885 --> 01:10:33.145
they rated my Riz.

01:10:33.485 --> 01:10:33.586
Yeah.

01:10:33.605 --> 01:10:34.886
I mean, I guess they're going to,

01:10:34.926 --> 01:10:36.426
they're going to start listening to your,

01:10:37.265 --> 01:10:38.405
your intimate conversations.

01:10:38.426 --> 01:10:40.226
That's a little, uh, that's a little,

01:10:40.567 --> 01:10:41.886
that's a little creepy, but, um,

01:10:44.280 --> 01:10:46.181
I remember many, many moons ago,

01:10:46.341 --> 01:10:49.364
I think this was after Edward Snowden came

01:10:49.385 --> 01:10:49.784
forward.

01:10:50.546 --> 01:10:52.167
And I saw like a little one panel

01:10:52.207 --> 01:10:55.248
comic in the newspaper that was like how

01:10:55.288 --> 01:10:56.710
they can start making it up to us.

01:10:57.371 --> 01:10:58.692
And it shows this guy like walking to

01:10:58.712 --> 01:10:59.813
the office on his cell phone.

01:10:59.872 --> 01:11:01.073
And he's like, yeah,

01:11:01.234 --> 01:11:02.213
I like I had to run out the

01:11:02.234 --> 01:11:02.534
door.

01:11:02.635 --> 01:11:03.836
The dog like threw up on the carpet

01:11:03.855 --> 01:11:04.275
or whatever.

01:11:04.716 --> 01:11:06.197
And it shows this FBI guy in front

01:11:06.216 --> 01:11:07.597
of him is just like, here's your lunch.

01:11:07.618 --> 01:11:08.378
You forgot at home.

01:11:08.439 --> 01:11:09.680
It's like, you know, whatever sandwich,

01:11:09.720 --> 01:11:10.581
just the way you like it.

01:11:11.081 --> 01:11:12.622
Like basically using that data to like

01:11:12.662 --> 01:11:13.462
make up for like, Oh,

01:11:13.502 --> 01:11:14.582
I didn't have time to make lunch today.

01:11:14.603 --> 01:11:15.182
It's like, nah, it's cool.

01:11:15.243 --> 01:11:15.662
I got you.

01:11:15.722 --> 01:11:17.503
So that's, that's what you reminded me of.

01:11:17.524 --> 01:11:17.623
Sorry.

01:11:17.644 --> 01:11:22.225
But yeah, it's, uh, I don't know.

01:11:22.246 --> 01:11:22.326
I'm,

01:11:22.445 --> 01:11:23.587
I'm a big fan of giving credit where

01:11:23.627 --> 01:11:24.146
credit is due.

01:11:24.207 --> 01:11:24.346
Like,

01:11:24.426 --> 01:11:26.127
even if it's someone I absolutely hate,

01:11:26.188 --> 01:11:27.429
if they do something good,

01:11:27.448 --> 01:11:28.408
I'm going to call it out and say

01:11:28.429 --> 01:11:29.630
like, look, that was a good action.

01:11:29.689 --> 01:11:30.909
Like they still suck.

01:11:31.090 --> 01:11:32.690
I'm not a fan of them,

01:11:32.711 --> 01:11:33.490
but they had a point.

01:11:33.530 --> 01:11:35.072
Like what's that mean from a winter

01:11:35.091 --> 01:11:35.351
soldier?

01:11:35.391 --> 01:11:36.972
Like he's not a line, but he's right.

01:11:40.284 --> 01:11:41.626
A broken clock is right twice a day,

01:11:41.645 --> 01:11:45.648
bro.

01:11:45.667 --> 01:11:47.389
We had a couple more comments here when

01:11:47.408 --> 01:11:48.328
we asked about AI.

01:11:49.130 --> 01:11:50.590
Vonnegut Rosewater said,

01:11:51.390 --> 01:11:53.150
it does alleviate some privacy issues,

01:11:53.190 --> 01:11:54.731
but the sustainability issues and impact

01:11:54.752 --> 01:11:55.712
on the labor market and treating the

01:11:55.733 --> 01:11:57.292
planet like an infinite resource or

01:11:57.313 --> 01:11:58.413
garbage can is my issue,

01:11:58.453 --> 01:11:59.895
which is totally fair.

01:11:59.935 --> 01:12:00.935
I think a lot of people feel that

01:12:00.954 --> 01:12:01.095
way.

01:12:03.590 --> 01:12:05.811
A positive, Koalinize,

01:12:06.032 --> 01:12:07.854
said that my issue with Lumo is that

01:12:07.873 --> 01:12:10.456
it's quite pricey and it has no CLI.

01:12:11.317 --> 01:12:12.457
I don't know why you would get that

01:12:12.557 --> 01:12:13.018
over, let's say,

01:12:13.057 --> 01:12:14.840
something like OpenCodeGo where your data

01:12:14.899 --> 01:12:15.900
isn't being used to train.

01:12:16.360 --> 01:12:16.702
Again,

01:12:16.761 --> 01:12:18.382
Lumo says they don't use your data to

01:12:18.422 --> 01:12:18.603
train.

01:12:18.643 --> 01:12:19.363
But no, I get that.

01:12:19.384 --> 01:12:22.407
Some people prefer to use the offline GPT

01:12:22.447 --> 01:12:23.046
for all.

01:12:23.466 --> 01:12:25.189
I think we even recommend a couple offline

01:12:25.649 --> 01:12:28.110
AI bots on the website that...

01:12:28.832 --> 01:12:29.771
Yeah, I mean, at that point,

01:12:29.811 --> 01:12:30.273
like right now,

01:12:30.353 --> 01:12:32.012
I'm having to take Proton's word for it.

01:12:32.052 --> 01:12:33.953
But if you use one that you can

01:12:34.014 --> 01:12:36.234
literally activate the firewall on your

01:12:36.255 --> 01:12:37.595
computer and it still works,

01:12:37.636 --> 01:12:39.277
then you can be absolutely certain.

01:12:39.377 --> 01:12:43.738
So for sure, I get it.

01:12:43.759 --> 01:12:48.400
But I think that's all we've got since

01:12:49.180 --> 01:12:50.220
that was our last video.

01:12:50.240 --> 01:12:51.082
Do you have anything you want to add,

01:12:51.101 --> 01:12:51.301
Jordan?

01:12:52.614 --> 01:12:53.234
Um,

01:12:53.255 --> 01:12:55.957
Lucas always comments that they like my

01:12:55.976 --> 01:12:56.277
hairstyle.

01:12:56.296 --> 01:12:58.957
I just thought that was fun.

01:12:59.057 --> 01:13:00.057
I missed that one.

01:13:00.557 --> 01:13:01.139
I missed it.

01:13:01.158 --> 01:13:02.059
Yeah, I missed it too.

01:13:02.738 --> 01:13:03.359
Um, thanks.

01:13:03.539 --> 01:13:03.939
I don't know.

01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:04.300
It's just,

01:13:05.060 --> 01:13:06.100
I like that you keep saying that.

01:13:06.121 --> 01:13:08.681
It's kind of funny.

01:13:08.702 --> 01:13:09.122
Oh, that's right.

01:13:09.141 --> 01:13:10.122
You were going to mix up your hair,

01:13:10.162 --> 01:13:10.643
weren't you?

01:13:10.823 --> 01:13:11.603
We forgot to do that.

01:13:12.304 --> 01:13:13.625
I should change it next time.

01:13:13.805 --> 01:13:14.466
It's so easy.

01:13:15.365 --> 01:13:15.966
It's so easy.

01:13:16.027 --> 01:13:17.207
I can just change it with a,

01:13:17.247 --> 01:13:18.087
with a single click.

01:13:18.148 --> 01:13:20.269
So anyway, yeah, it's been,

01:13:20.350 --> 01:13:21.951
it's been a great episode this week,

01:13:22.011 --> 01:13:23.452
but I think it is time to start

01:13:23.471 --> 01:13:25.353
rolling out into the outro here.

01:13:26.132 --> 01:13:27.213
So yeah,

01:13:27.234 --> 01:13:28.574
we did not discuss who was going to

01:13:28.614 --> 01:13:28.994
take that.

01:13:29.015 --> 01:13:30.256
You want me to do it or you

01:13:30.275 --> 01:13:31.197
feel like reading?

01:13:32.368 --> 01:13:33.747
You can do it.

01:13:33.768 --> 01:13:34.229
All right.

01:13:34.328 --> 01:13:35.368
I'll get the outshare this week.

01:13:36.708 --> 01:13:36.868
Yeah.

01:13:36.929 --> 01:13:38.470
So all the updates from this week in

01:13:38.489 --> 01:13:40.189
privacy will be shared on the blog every

01:13:40.210 --> 01:13:40.649
single week.

01:13:41.050 --> 01:13:42.770
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01:13:42.791 --> 01:13:44.211
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01:13:49.073 --> 01:13:51.512
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01:13:53.894 --> 01:13:55.474
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