Hi, I'm Kevin
Devine and this is The ProSource Podcast.
In each episode, we'll be talking to industry experts,
including trade professionals, suppliers and our showroom staff,
about a variety of topics within home and commercial projects.
Enjoy.
Today I'm joined by Ryan Cullman, one of our trade pro members at ProSource.
Yes, sir. Glad to be here. Glad you joined us.
So let's start with this.
Tell us a little bit about yourself and your business.
Uhm, RC Construction Remodeling.
Located in St Charles, but we cover just about everywhere in Saint Louis.
Do everything but new home builds for the most part.
So interiors, kitchens, bathrooms, basements, decks, exteriors.
Been doing it for about 16 years now.
Maybe it's easier to ask what you don't do.
What we don't do is
new home builds and roofing is about the only two things we don't do.
Okay, there you go.
And for those unfamiliar, we're talking about Missouri.
When we say Saint Louis,
for those of you across the country, just throwing that out there.
So let's start with this.
Today. We're talking about home
remodeling trends, specifically the forecast for 2024.
So as we look forward with that, now that we're actually in 2024,
what goes into anticipating home remodeling trends?
That's a tricky question because I think
you kind of go back to 2023 a little bit and see what was going on there.
And, you know, fourth quarter of that going into 2024.
But, you know, we do so many different projects.
We get to touch a lot of different ideas with kitchens and bathrooms,
flooring trends, that kind of stuff.
So you've taken a lot of the consideration,
the colors that people are using, the different materials.
So as far as getting into 2024 trends,
little tricky right now cause it's only January,
but I think the next few months here
we'll figure out what they're what the new colors are going to be
and what kind of materials are going to be as we go.
Okay.
Does it tend to really change a lot from year to year?
Not much.
I mean, there's going to be some things different.
I mean, I think right now you're seeing a lot more warmer colors
being used not so much the hard whites anymore.
Little more creativity in people's designs.
But that was more of a 2023, end of 2023, going to 24.
So we'll see if it continues.
So I do have my questions in front of me.
So if I look down, just know
that's all I'm doing, I’m not falling asleep or anything.
But so as a trade professional, how do you approach
trends and specifically how do those influence
in any advice or any guidance that you off to your clients?
I just kind of read the room and see what the clients want to do.
You know, I use ProSource a lot for our designs,
and so working with you guys and getting that opportunity
to work with Renee and Lisa, specifically in Fenton,
we have a lot of clients that come in and they look at different
colors, that kind of stuff.
But as far as how I can manipulate the room or help them,
I just kind of push in the right direction.
Read the room, see what they are, are they, you know,
are they a young couple are they an older couple?
Do they have kids?
Is this their forever home?
Is this a 3 to 5 year home? So it kind of depends on what
what input
you're going to do into the house, how much money you’re gonna spend.
Okay.
So how does your experience as a trade pro
then influence how you navigate a specific trend?
that's a tricky one, because...
I like to ask tricky ones. Yeah, I see that . It’s a specialty of mine.
As far as navigating it and my experience, I think we've
we've done so many different projects and seen so many different trends
over the years that you kind of roll with the punches a little bit, right?
There's not much we don't do.
So when you get into those situations, it's, you know,
relying on the right people to put yourself in in the right space.
So do those trends, even though they may not change that much from year to year,
does it sometimes put a challenge on you with you and not just yourself,
but even your crews as far as seeing abreast of them
and being able to implement them is there additional training
that may go into it or is it research that need to go into it?
Yeah, that's a great question.
You know, take like the big the big tile formats right
now, people are doing you know, we just the shower the other day that was,
you know, four foot by two foot panels, there were ceramic tile.
That’s a whole different application and doing your standard 12 by 12 or subway
tile completed for materials completing process.
And so yeah I had a couple of guys go go to school for a couple
days to learn how to do that.
Definitely kind of keeps you on your toes.
And so that's the joy of remodeling.
I always tell people you know it's it's never the same thing every day
you never know what you're getting yourself into.
So especially with, you know, the project itself in the house itself,
but then you add in different products and trends,
some newer.
It's exciting.
And I actually said that, by the way, that that was a great question
as opposed to the tricky questions I've been asking.
Yeah. Tricky and great.
Yeah, I'm trying to balance between the two, so.
All right.
Now, as we look toward this, what direction you see home remodeling
trends sort of evolving into moving forward,
I think like I mentioned a little bit earlier, is it seems like people do
a lot more colors right now.
You know, we were painting a lot of kitchen cabinets.
We're installing a lot of kitchen cabinets with colors.
Still doing the white countertops, those always will be popular.
But you know, wallpapers making a comeback.
So a lot of people are getting creative.
Wallpaper's coming back.
Yeah, everything is. Exactly.
Like, you know, gold fixtures, gold faucets, gold handles, gold’s coming back.
Right.
So what you shouldn't have torn out of your house, you know, 20 years ago.
It's coming right back. Where was this advice before then?
So it's... we’ll see where it goes.
But I think a little more creativity, a little more wall color, wall coverings,
you know, wainscoting and board and baton that's coming back.
So it's something more a little more creative.
I mean, you can go through that to Pinterest, for example,
and people love getting on Pinterest and making the boards makes my life easy
because you can literally show me a picture of what you want. But
there's a lot of creative people out there
doing stuff that makes it on social media.
Now that you can access easier.
So I think that's uh, kind of fun.
So you mentioned the kitchen cabinets. So
how much are we actually really moving away from the infamous
white speaker cabinets?
I mean, I'm sure they'll probably never go away,
but are you saying there's a diminishing trend going on here?
Because I don't think they'll ever go away because timeless, right.
And white never gets old.
It’s easy to keep clean.
But is it? Eh, there's a lot of...
As far as wiping a shaker cabinet down isn't too difficult.
Okay.
But yeah, we're doing a cool green color right now in Sunset Hills.
We just did a blue one in South County, like a Navy blue.
We did like a storm gray in Afton a few months ago.
So the definitely colors are coming back, especially maybe if you do like a white
exterior color as far as the exterior cabinets
and then do the color islands like that, that's getting very popular too.
So I mean, the two tone. Yes.
So I don't know if the white ever goes away,
but it's definitely changing a little bit as it goes, because
it's not that hard to get cabinets painted these days, either.
So if you if you do a cool blue color in five years, you don't want it, bam.
Do you see it going even one step further?
Do you see three tone colors in kitchens even more?
Or it's just two tones right now. Okay.
They're white and grays.
The grays and blues, those kind of colors are a work right now
because you can get the the consistent countertops are too, right?
So you can do a nice white countertop, do some color cabinets,
get creative with the island or whatever.
And like I said, if you don't like it, you can paint them in five years.
But they are people breaking out too, with cabinet hardware or is that,
meaning getting creative and the types of can really go through
is that pretty basic with size sizing.
So multiple sizes of holes, multiple sizes of handles.
Like I said, gold’s coming back, blacks real popular right now.
The chrome and nickels are getting pushed out,
but by the black and gold coming back.
So that's part size is adding to those two tone
islands and countertops and cabinets.
That is just making the creativity that much difference.
Okay.
So what as you look back,
you said sometimes it helps to look back into the fourth quarter.
So what home design trends did you see that were on the rise in 2023?
And maybe they do start to continue to carry forward in 24?
I think it's the same, same
kind of question as we had there with the with the gold handles and anything else.
The black, the black fixtures.
We just did a really cool basement
for some great clients over in Bellarive that had...
they wallpapered all the ceilings.
With like a wood grain.
They wallpapered the ceilings?
Wallpapered the ceilings, like a woodgrain that turned out really, really cool.
But just that created some creative side, right?
Something I would never have thought
they were going to be wallpapering ceilings, but here we got
wallpaper and ceilings, so that was something cool.
We've done a lot of wallpaper in bathrooms in the last six months or so,
so not really flashy, flashy,
but just enough to give some texture and kind of make it a little softer.
So those are some of the things I'd see moving forward.
I just want to kind of stick on this because it does kind of
it sounds surprising anyway, with wallpaper making a comeback, but is it
is it more bold in its nature or is it
maybe a little more muted like you did a wood tone here?
It's a little bit of both. Okay.
You've got the soft that people don't want to have something
so vibrant and, you know, kind of punchy in your mouth.
But you've also got the
the dark wood, grain, grooves, textures, you know, that we put on the ceiling.
That turned out awesome. So I think it's is all personality.
I think it's fun.
With your age personality, what part time do you live in that
all kind of those demographics feed into what your style is going to be.
So here's maybe another way of saying are you seen that a lot of the trends,
the ways that are going with the color in the wallpaper that it's becoming much
more personal and not caring so much what other people might think,
what other people might look at when they come in there.
But the homeowners themselves, this is what I want.
This is what I want to see. I agree with you 100% there. that's...
well, let's put it this way.
50/50.
Half the people can have a vision
and see what it’s gonna look like before it's done
and know exactly what they want and they don't care what the neighbor has.
They don't care what anybody else has.
The other person has to go on Pinterest and look and say,
I like this, I like this, I don't like this.
And then we have to get designer involved
to help them kind of visualize that space.
And so those are the people
that seem to be more trendy towards what's what's happening right now.
Opposed to the people that are a little more stubborn,
if you will, that say this is how it was or what I want.
This is how it's going to be.
And you know what we're going to do, okay.
When you look at those trends through 2023 and might be carrying forward to 24,
what about those particular trends may lend itself to newer trends in 2024
that might even help some of these trends evolve more in this upcoming year?
I think the color creativeness
from 2023 coming into 2024 is going to be something that’s going to continue.
We did a really cool kitchen a while back about six months ago
that I think still plays with some board and batten look.
So the whole dining room is board
and batten and is painted two different color tones,
but it tied into the wood cabinets that were on the island.
So I think getting those trends as far as the colors and the warmness
and not that hard white, white tops, white countertop,
I mean, white countertops, white cabinets, those kind of things.
I think that's what's going to continue to keep pushing.
Okay.
So when we look at
product development, what about product development
is helping push some of these trends in maybe certain directions?
Is there anything with regard to that?
I think part of them, as you know, you take luxury vinyl, for example.
How popular is luxury vinyl right now?
A tad bit, Yeah, exactly.
So I mean, you can put it in the basement. Obviously it's waterproof.
It's you know, it it applies to the concrete well.
People put it on the first floor, getting away from the three quarter
inch hardwoods, not because you can get the 15 year warranty out of a luxury vinyl
on some products.
You can get the cool colors, you can get sizes, you know, it’s so creative.
But that that product is is changing the flooring, the flooring aspect, right?
Luxury vinyl, right? Yeah.
About roughly about a year ago we talked with Neil Ross, our vice
president Merchandizing and he talked about
waterproof flooring coming along and how a little bit
the industry was ahead of people looking for that particular product
that that was waterproof
flooring was being pushed out there, but maybe people weren't necessarily
ready to adapt it, adapt it so quickly or move to it.
Do you see that changing at all?
Do you see a lot of people looking you mentioned luxury vinyl being waterproof.
Do you see a lot of people asking for that particular feature?
Absolutely.
Basements, especially people, you know, we've got multiple jobs right now
of pipes bursting
because it's because it's Missouri in January, it's cold types of burst.
And please don't say that. What am I going home to now?
No flooring is getting ruined where that luxury vinyl it's it's waterproof.
It's you know, it's an easy clean up.
So very very popular for basements especially.
But we're doing it in more spaces and bathrooms
because it's waterproof, you know, or the humidity.
Now, expansion contraction,
it's it's an awesome product.
But as far as changing the game with product development, that's I'd say
one of the one of the number ones. Okay.
So is luxury vinyls just because of how you've been talking about it?
Is that probably the number one flooring you're putting in as far as quantity here?
What I'm talking about is most people choosing that or is it just it's popular,
but maybe not putting in the most people are choosing for basements.
But as far as the first floor goes, you've still got your half inch hardwoods,
your three quarter hardwoods that are very popular.
They're just a little richer. You know, you're going to get that color.
You get the natural wood.
But basements 100%.
Well, I guess when you when they're thinking about a particular
trend and saying,
I want to put this into a room, is there anything that they have to
maybe navigate through that they've really got to make?
Are you considering this
before you put that in a room like let's say it's a particular color
you mentioned like blue and you're seeing you just put in blue cabinets.
But is there something they need to think about if they when they do that
that they have to consider before they just make that jump?
I think that goes back to, you know, reading the room.
As a homeowner, is this their forever home?
Is this their 3 to 5 year home?
Is this you know, are we are we flipping this home?
What are we doing to the house to put this product in there?
So if you're doing something that's going to be real trendy,
that's going to be super vibrant, and because that's a trend right now,
is that going to be good for you to sell the house in 3 to 5 years
or are you going to do something more neutral where it's going to apply to
everybody and not scare some buyers away potentially?
Or is this your forever home and you're that person that doesn't care.
This is what I want. This is a trend.
And if I would change it, I'll change it, make it harder
to sometimes people don't know if it's a forever home or the three.
I mean, the way the housing market went here recently.
Yeah, it changed a lot of people's opinion.
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Do you ever find that
the let's just stick with the Navy blue because it's a little darker color?
Do you make sure that they understand how lighting can impact the room
when you're going with those colors
from either whether it's a lighter color or a darker color 100%.
You know,
we do a lot of candlelight installs because they're such an easy install.
And most houses just have the singular, you know, ceiling fan in the middle.
So before we even paint the rooms, let's get the lighting in here.
Let's put some samples on the wall.
Let's see how you guys like it, because once we do it, it's
gonna cost you a lot more money to redo it than it is to cover some samples up.
So, yeah, the darker colors are always a little more difficult.
And I think there,
you know, as far as
wall colorings, they're a little more unusual than just
your standard, you know, grays and whites and and more neutral colors.
Well, when you look at what the paint companies came out
with from the colors of the year, I mean, Pantone came out with peach fuzz.
Yeah.
Setting aside the name alone, it was a unique color.
I would love to see who who comes up with the names on the paint colors.
Right. That's a fun job. Right?
They're very creative.
So. Yeah, I want that job myself.
So is there a way for homeowners
to anticipate trends in some way when they're selecting products?
Is there a way to gaze into a crystal ball?
I think that crystal ball is Pinterest, right?
For a lot of people or,
you know,
there are several trade magazines around that have, you know, up
and coming products that haven't been released yet or,
you know, but Pinterest is is always on the edge because it's people
kind of outside the box doing creative stuff.
Not that I have a stake in Pinterest here, but either you have a stake
or you like to surf Pinterest.
I don't I have enough clients that give me enough Pinterest information
around to surf with too much, but it's it's a very helpful source for sure.
So as a trade pro, how can you assist in that process?
The cool thing is, is it's simple, right? So go build.
You want to look at a bathroom, go on bathrooms on Pinterest
and build your board.
So you add stuff and then you can send me that board.
So I can go through with you and say,
What was the colors in this picture you like?
Was it the materials?
What was it?
You know, what was your your inspiration behind this?
And I think it narrows the gap down quite a bit between the homeowner
not knowing what they want and me trying to figure out what they want.
I think it narrows the gap quite a bit.
Is there an unexpected area in the house
that's going to get more focus in 2024 than before?
Like if you go back to
the days of the pandemic, let's not go back to the days of the pandemic....
Let's glance upon them for a moment.
You know, Home Office was a huge room because people were working from home.
So having that dedicated workspace that became obviously a big piece of it.
Is there a room, as you look at a 2024, that's getting a little more attention
outside of the traditional kitchen and bathroom that obviously is always high
on the remodeling list. Outdoor living space, outdoor living.
Yeah, because people are still working from home.
They want that.
They're not cooped up in that office in that spare bedroom. All day.
Not in the basement.
Your bedroom or where your office is at.
Last year we did quite a few, and ever since COVID started, we've been
they've been picking up outdoor spaces,
whether it's three screens in the rooms, screen and porches,
whatever it is, because you can take your laptop out
there, you can do exactly what you're doing
on a nice spring day or summer day with the mini split inside of it
or something like that.
But outdoor spaces are going to be are going to be big again in 2024.
So let's go back a bit.
When they talked about the training and advancement
you've had to make with some of these changes.
Did that change a little bit from your business of where
you needed to focus with the growth of the outdoor living?
Yeah, I mean, we've always done decks and and patios and that kind of stuff,
but now they're coming strictly go full screen enclosures and,
you know,
fully attached roof systems with ceiling fans and exhaust fan I mean, can lights
and you know a lot of more amenities inside to make it more comfortable
so that people can spend a day out there they can spend,
you know, a nice spring spring time out there.
So definitely a change that adapts.
But I've got a great team.
I've got 15 guys who work for me and we do
we're very, very adverse in all of our abilities.
So people throw stuff our way.
It's not, not the end of the world.
Do you also see a lot of pool tile coming into place as opposed to just
concrete around the pool?
Are you finding
pavers leading out there and pool tile and more decorative aspects there?
We don't do pools ourselves.
Ah, found another thing you don't do. Haha, that’s right.
But I have a friend who's in the pool business and,
you know, they've been crazy busy.
Ever since COVID, because everybody can't go out
and and couldn't go out and do things like that used to.
But outdoor spaces are, you know,
lot more stamped concrete, more colored concrete pavers for sure.
And the backyard pool areas are getting just as big as the enclosed spaces.
So do you find homeowners care about trends
or that it really influences their decision,
or does it just I guess it's the weighing out..
Is it more personal preference or do they really get influenced
by the trends and say,
you know, I was going to go this way, but this is what seems to be trending.
Let me go over here.
I think it's a loaded question for sure, because you've got the 5050,
you've got the people that know exactly what they want,
and this is where it's going to be and this is how it is.
And you got people that don't really have that vision.
They're going to look for those trends of of magazines
and talking to other people and seeing what the what the next house mom did
down the street to to change her kitchen or her bathroom or flooring or whatever.
So I think it also depends on a lot of a lot of age group.
Right.
The demographics, you know, older people are going to be a little more solid
and this is what it's going to be because this is how it's been,
whereas a little younger crowd is going to be a little more adventurous
and colors in the kitchen and doing some different stuff because,
you know,
they're not stuck in their ways of this, how it was in the style it's going to be.
What about the young at heart?
The young at heart?
All of the people. All the young heart. Yeah.
They're they're probably the trickiest because they're kind of a wild card right.
Now I am going to ask you to look in your crystal ball
and you look five years down the line, ten years down the line.
Is there anything you see coming on the horizon?
You're like, maybe it's not here now.
Maybe it's not even a trend for 2024,
but this could definitely be something bigger further down the line.
I think the industry is in such a good spot
with we're doing every aspect of the home, right?
We're not, we're not doing.
And maybe that's just because that's our business.
We don't do just bathrooms and kitchens, but every every space is evolving
as it goes, whether it's smart or electronics,
whether it's smart home stuff, which, you know, every single,
you know,
light bulb and appliance and everything is all wi fi.
Right. So you can talk to them.
Why do I want to flip a switch when I can ask Alexa to do it for me?
Right.
So if you're talking about ten years from now, you know,
that's got to keep evolving.
Of course.
Does that turn What does that lead into as far as
the different materials are going to become available with?
You know, I just installed the exhaust fan at my house over the weekend.
It's Alexa what you tell it to turn on and it turns on, Right.
So where does that go in the next 5 to 10 years as far as making life
easier or more difficult for some people, I guess.
But how much do you charge yourself for the labor
that was on the house.
12 pack of Busch Light is what it all costs.
Okay, there you go.
So I don't know.
That's that's a tough one. Let's think abou t for sure.
Okay, great.
Well, certainly appreciate your time
joining us here and sharing your insights with us.
Ryan Cullman.
Okay.
We're going to switch gears a little bit here as we're joined by Kenny
Michael with Shaw So, Kenny, thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, thank you very much for having me. I'm
always excited to be able to talk about Shaw and carpet in general and design.
It's it's an exciting topic for me.
Well, there you go then.
I always like to make sure it's something exciting, invigorating for my guests.
So let's start with this.
Why do you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do with Shaw.
Right. So my name is Kenny Michael.
I am the design director for residential carpet
and both Andersen tough tex and Shaw floors.
So working with my design teams,
coming up with pattern trend innovations
in maybe toughting or printing, who knows what it might be.
It's but working, making those beautiful products that we release every year.
So we're talking about home remodeling trends of 2024.
So let's start with this.
What do we expect from Shaw in 2024?
Are there any exciting unveils that you could tease for us in the upcoming year?
Yeah, so so for this year we've really put more emphasis
on trend itself and on product innovation, innovation.
So those two things trend and innovation.
Some of the innovations that we do have that fit
both those categories are no pattern match required.
We have some new yarn innovations
that we're going to be coming out with this year.
We have overall new style directions for both the Anderson Tough Tex
and Shaw floors and more sustainability initiatives.
So we have a lot going on when it comes to adding new product.
We want them to be more beautiful,
but at the same time we want them to be more efficient,
we want them to be easier to use, we want them to be more practical.
We want them to perform better and we want them to be better for our environment.
So taking it sounds like a lot.
That does sound like a lot.
Can you accomplish all of that?
Yes, we can.
And we are going to.
So a couple of things that, like I said, the no pattern match required.
That's a big innovation for this year that we're touting.
We have several new products coming out.
Discover Ambitious are a couple out of Anderson
Tough Tex, calm expression, a bold move on.
Plus those are some patterns coming out of Shaw floors.
And what that means is we can add less repeatability
for your esthetics and for that design and for your installer.
He can install it just like a texture.
You can head seam in size humidity where so you have less waste,
which is better for the environment, less waste which is better for your pocket,
and then as well as less repeatability, which is better for your eyes.
So all those things coming together just makes it perfect for the customer
and all it takes is a little innovation on the design team.
And so that's what we're trying to bring.
So as we look at that, is there any type of input that you get
from trade professionals in general that you take into consideration
when you're when you're developing your products?
I mean, do they have any type of influence at all?
yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
In fact, yesterday I was I was just in
Baltimore and I was meeting with some trade professionals.
So speaking to installers, designers
and several other people talking about how can we make it easier for you.
So for installers, that's kind of much harder to speak for them.
Row cutting is another big thing.
How can we start designing for row cutting and etc.?
For designers it is how can we start talking the language that they need,
you know, talking about trend first, what are the trends?
How can we help build their confidence and their knowledge?
And that way, when they're selecting products,
I can say, you know, these products over here, imagination, illumination
or some products that we have an in Anderson Tough Tex brand, These
do fit the new vintage style that more transitional
coming from traditional into a more contemporary feeling.
And they know now, okay, if I'm designing for a space like this,
I can now pull these products with more confidence and a little easier.
So again, talking to those designers and installers,
they're having more influence in what we're doing.
We're trying to we have some new initiatives
like the innovation station that we're taking to our all of our shows
where we can actually start to show some things that are really far out
that we don't even know we're going to launch yet.
They may never launch.
However, we're getting that input from our partners
and our trade partners to see what they want to see,
and they're getting more input more quickly instead of
just trying to get some input right before it comes out.
So in the same sense that that's from the people front, I guess we'll call it.
But how do how did just how home remodeling trends for
evolving were the going what everybody says is the trend
within the industry how does that affect product development?
When you start to look at where things are trending, where they may trend?
Yes. So I
think we're changing the way we're thinking a little bit.
And I touched on that a little bit more.
I talked about
talking more of a designer track and especially this goes
for like an Anderson Tough Tex brand that is trying to be more A&E focused.
We want to be higher end.
We're trying to differentiate between the Anderson Tough Tex and the Shaw floors.
We really have to think a lot about trend and trend forward.
So we have to understand the trend ourselves before we start
even our inspiration for product.
So some trends that we're seeing, such as that new vintage
that I've just touched on. Another thing is New Mediterranean.
That new modernist,
the modernist that typically wanted the cold, hard edge is 90 degrees.
They want something with a story now, something with character,
something like a basket weaving, stucco, tactility, those different things.
So we start to take into encompass those into our products.
And not every product has to have every trend, right?
So product by product, we're being more targeted on what trends we're
trying to fit a product into a set of just saying everything is for everyone.
I'm compelled to ask this question.
Yeah, Can you can you find yourselves almost getting into trouble
that maybe you're trying to follow a trend of product development,
but the trend is short lived or maybe not as trendy
and popular as one believed, and now we'll go.
We've already developed this. Now what?
Well, well, the beauty, I think, of the trends
that we're seeing now are they are timeless trends.
So when I talk about that new vintage, we're looking at classic tartans and
and plaids and tweeds, and maybe it's a distressed lattice
or basket weave, things that are timeless and never going to go out of style.
They've been around for hundreds of years and they'll be around for hundreds more.
So we're thinking that timeless styling, but sophisticated and high end.
And that goes for both Shaw floors and for Anderson Tough Tex.
And we do want to every once in a while, come out with something
that's a wow factor, more of a luxury item in those luxury items do have to be
a little more trend forward and maybe they'll style out a little faster.
But typically when you have this very specific looks,
those are rug looks, runner looks, things that are going to be replaced
more often anyways.
So it makes sense to fit in to that place.
But we have to think about that as a design and a designer group.
We have to think, okay, if we're going to make this more specific,
we got to know it's going to be a rug.
We got to know where it's going to be. We have to understand
the end use of the product before we even start designing.
So I just had another thought with with this,
whether or not people know this, but pretty much
I won't say all, but pretty much any carpet can be custom
bound into an area rug just of sizes to fit anything.
You're not just restricted to what you find in a store somewhere.
Yeah, we said that with some of those patterns and textures
that you develop in your mind, do you sometimes look at them and say
this is actually better as an area rug than it is as, say, wall
to wall carpet or vice versa?
So sometimes specifically we're designing for wall to wall, and it's
meant to be a wall to wall carpet, but it can always be a rug if it
I mean, it doesn't matter if it's just a plain tweed cut pile
that can be a rug if you want it to be a rug.
However, we do have some styles that are going to be more rug centric,
and we know that.
But we always design to allow for
either a wall to wall or a rug, and that's today.
I'm not saying going forward we might explore doing some more rug
specific programs only, but for right now, today, if you go to buy a product,
it can be wall to wall or whichever you prefer.
And we actually do allow custom shapes as well in our rugs,
which I don't know if a lot of people know.
So if you want to do a
an organic cowhide shape or a dog bone, you know, we offer those.
Okay,
Yeah, well, you got
to make the dog happy, said Pet principles.
Yeah. And here's the other thing.
Obviously there's over the years it's been a movement
and I know this probably breaks your heart,
but there has been movement more toward hard surface.
Throughout the world.
So do you find a trend?
Is more people going getting those custom area rugs because
they may not be going to wall to wall, but they still like a a bit of carpet.
Have you been seeing more of a trend toward those customary rooms?
Yeah, absolutely.
Rugs, of course, are growing with hard surface growing.
Makes sense.
What we're actually starting to see in the past six months or so is rugs
are getting larger, people are wanting larger rugs, which is great for us.
We like to call them rug rooms or almost the wall
rugs because people are going almost foot off the wall
so that an official term almost to the wall rugs,
it's not
official, it's just something we say internally.
Okay, But that's great for us because we're selling
both the hard surface and the soft surface.
So it makes a lot of sense for us to capitalize on both of those opportunities.
So within we've talked to this
to a couple of different people, So I'd like to get your take.
Within the past couple of years, waterproof flooring has
entered the marketplace in all categories,
including carpet, which a lot of people may not even know that.
A lot of people always know luxury vinyl.
It's been there, but I don't know.
They think about carpet. There it is.
But what we've also noticed is that ahead of the curve on that one
where the waterproof carpet was introduced but the marketplace wasn't
maybe quite ready for it, embrace it as much.
Have you seen a change in that regard?
Have people begun to embrace it more as the awareness has grown?
I think a few things have changed which have yes, made it more attractive
for the consumer.
I think number one is we don't call it waterproof carpet.
We speak to the solution first.
So the solution, what is the solution for waterproof carpet?
And for us, we we call that our our lifeguard and R2X
So R2X for us is your your first guarded defense.
So if you spill something, you can clean it easily.
It bubbles on the top. It doesn't penetrate into the fibers.
So that allows you to clean the spill.
As soon as that happens, let's say if you're gone for several hours
and then it does start to penetrate, it's never going to get to your subfloor.
So the stains don't return, Those odors don't return.
You can clean it before it.
It will never get past that barrier to your subfloor.
It will always be on a carpet level.
So if we speak to the solution first, that's a really big deal.
The second thing is innovation in what we've done.
So the innovation in for shop floors would be now
all of our lifeguard is installed like traditional soft back,
so there's no extra stretching or extra material for seaming.
It's installed just like you would a traditional, traditional soft bag.
So installers love that now.
And for our customer as well, having R2X, what that does is it coats
the fiber all the way to the bottom to where some of our competitors
will put a topical.
And what that means is they just spray some chemical on top of the carpet
that makes it slightly waterproof for a couple of cleanings and then it's gone.
Ours is all the way to the base of the root
so it protects your fiber all the way down to the backing.
So those innovations and just our talk track
I think are pushing customers to know have more.
And as we talk about pet Perfect and when we talk
about different things like that and kid friendly those those are
those are very important for those customers.
You know, RX2 sounds like a Star Wars character.
I'm just saying
it's R2X.
Close enough.. There we go.
So what?
You gave me a perfect lead in here because you just talked about pet proofing
and kid proof
flooring that guards against kids and pets that will probably never go out of style
for sure. Right.
So since you started to bring that up, what are some of the benefits of selecting
those features or traits?
And is that just an ongoing trend?
Maybe we can't even call it a trend because it just
maybe is never going to go away.
Yeah, I don't think it's ever going away.
I think that people are so used to
the ease of cleaning on hard surface.
They don't want to have to go back to
never having that ease again,
even if it's a carpet or whatever the surface may be.
And I think that is really what we bring to the table
when we talk about pet friendly or kid friendly carpet.
If you look at our pet perfect brands,
what that does is it brings you a confidence and a lifestyle
that can really let you be worry free when it comes to your carpet.
I know growing up when I was a kid,
if we had when we had carpet in the living room,
I wasn't allowed to eat or drink in the living room. So.
So now we don't have to worry about that.
If you if you spill your, your, your wine, you can wipe it up with a paper towel.
It's an extremely clean.
Well, even if it's a white rug,
it's it's not letting that moisture penetrate into the fiber.
If it's dirt, if your dog has an accident,
that odor is not going to penetrate.
So we have all these new innovations that now make carpet
so clean, able at the same time, it's still the comfort, the warmth has to slip,
fall and and the acoustic sound barrier that you want.
It has everything that you would want out of the comfort level, etc.
that I had just mentioned.
However, it is still cleanable and it's going to perform
and almost to the point of where your hard surfaces as well.
So you can have all the the ease of mind with the comfort.
Has there been a moment where a trend was just so wild
that it frankly had to be, but it had to be set aside?
I don't care. We can't do that.
We're going to have to go with something over here
that's just a more popular product in general.
Yeah, all the time, every day.
Does it break your heart?
Sometimes.
Sometimes, You know, as designers and there's any designers
listening to this, they know what I say when your products are your children
and and when they get killed, it hurts.
So we're just we're, we're every day we're we're innovating.
And especially with me and my team, I tell them, you know,
let's not put any rules on anything.
It may get shot down later because it's not efficient enough.
Or maybe that yarn system is it isn't sustainable as we want to be as a company.
So instead of pigeonholing ourselves from the beginning, let's explore,
let's be innovative,
let's look at what we can do instead of looking what we will do, right?
So that's what we have to do as designers, is to put ourself
into that innovative head space.
And it's just an everyday part of that process.
Again, like I said, we had an innovation station
that we're showing off at all these markets, right? So
I can
already tell you a couple of these are going to die
for an example.
But that's sad.
It's already seeing the death in advance.
But I can I can give you an example of one product
that's it's hash shag, half a pattern.
So it's a pattern with a shag on top.
However,
the clean ability comes in the question, it's shedding a little bit here and there.
So that's very trend forward and and it's
and it's a it's a it's a popular movement.
It would fit the trend that we're seeing that retro come back.
However the practicality and the machine
that has to be put on and the efficiency that it runs at etc..
You have to take everything in and make a business decision and a business case
that when I can tell you right now, is probably
wow. John Travolta and the cast of Saturday Night
Fever are all trying right now.
Right?
It's just
Well, that's great.
Kenny, I really appreciate you joining us today
and giving us your feedback and your thoughts on this.
Look forward to all the new products that are coming out here, too,
where things are trending. That sounds great.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, we're we're super excited.
And if anyone listening to this
hasn't went and seen Shaw floors new 2024 or Anderson tough tex
2024 soft surface launches please go check them out they'll blow you away.
That's a guarantee.
Great looking stuff
. See, now you’ve put it out there so it has to be gauranteed.
So it's all right. Well, great.
Thanks, Kenny. Appreciate you joining us.
Yeah. Thank you very much, Kevin.
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