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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I am Hamish, your host.

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This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.

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Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling
with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is

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not aligned to values and purpose.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this, promise you.

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Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

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And so I had this really great gift of being able to tap into creativity and this, this,
this powerful energy of self discovery and sharing yourself and flow and all these words.

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And then I just decided I wasn't going to trust it.

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And I cut it off for probably about 15 years

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Ryan and I met on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago and we've had some really good
conversations.

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And so I've asked him to this podcast today because he's got a great story to tell.

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Ryan, thanks so much for being here.

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Can you tell me a little bit about your story, please?

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Yeah, Hamish, I want to tell you, first of all, thank you for having me here.

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It's great to be with you again.

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And just before we started recording, we were talking about how it's funny how, you know,
people on a similar journey, similar minds, similar spirits end up finding each other,

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even though we're continents away.

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I don't know, I kind of, it occurred to me that there's a little bit of magic in that.

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And we were just experiencing that right now.

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But yeah.

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My story, guess.

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It's hard to know where to begin, but I guess any place is as good as another.

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I kind of think back to this early access to creative pursuits, which is like music,
right?

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And, you know, I really felt at an early age that this using creative energy, I could plug
into things and kind of, it wasn't like it was coming from me.

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It was like I was some kind of vessel that was able to, you know,

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not to use words that are like woo woo, but using words like woo woo, I was able to plug
in some divine thing.

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It was just some instrument of something that was coming through me.

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And I think that that made me self -aware to a degree that early on might have been
unusual.

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And I think that throughout my life, I really see that there has been this kind of

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questioning of that or the value of that, you know, and I think really it's been about
self -trust and self -discovery simultaneously and then just allowing life to kind of come

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through you.

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And I think just, I started talking about music and I think music early on was my first
access to this.

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And I think I've discovered that really you can access this kind of divine

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thing anywhere.

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And I've done that in a bunch of different ways.

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So I started with this music business, and I spent a lot of time writing songs.

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And what do you need to write songs?

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Well, you need pain.

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And so I got very good at kind of, you know, noticing pain noticing, you know, what was
there was coming up and I was able to, at least early on turn that into a redemptive

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You know, it was very spiritual and that the process of writing music became something
negative comes in something, you know Victorious kind of comes from that and I think as

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you as I got older I started questioning that and I was like, yeah, there's no utility in
this there isn't you know, I need to go get a job and Just kind of I remember my dad

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always used to say this term you need to join the working schlubs like the rest of us, you
know

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And he still says stuff like that, but I took it real seriously.

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was like, I guess that's what you're supposed to do.

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And so I had this really great gift of being able to tap into creativity and this, this,
this powerful energy of self discovery and sharing yourself and flow and all these words.

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And then I just decided I wasn't going to trust it.

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And I cut it off for probably about 15 years until COVID

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And when COVID happened, really, I was in a new town by myself here in Cincinnati, Ohio.

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I just moved here.

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had sort of, I had a relationship that had ended and I just was kind of quarantined alone
in a new city by myself.

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And I kind of just went down this, I was like, okay, I need to, I need to kind of get back
to where the first journey, right?

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We were headed towards this spiritual journey and we went to this very

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you know, worldly, let's get let's make money.

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Let's do all these things.

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And I had recently got divorced from that.

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And I just ended up here in Cincinnati, and really just on this journey of self discovery
that really was just a magical, magical kind of awakening, right.

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So I would say that's kind of the overview of my story

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Thank you for that.

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I think it's really interesting, isn't it?

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When you, as a child, as a young person, you've got the whole world in front of you.

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You can see everything.

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You can play, you can dance, you can be creative.

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And we get it beaten out of ourselves for best intentions, maybe parents, school teachers,
whatever.

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And that's tragic.

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But I think, I mean, there's such a theme of the people I've spoken to where they've had
this intuition, this sense, this passion, creativity.

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is such a theme.

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And yeah, no, get a proper job.

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Get a proper job.

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money, work hard, work hard to earn money, work hard to work money.

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And that scarcity and round it goes and we disconnect from creativity.

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And I think it's tragic.

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What made you realize you wanted to get back into it?

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What was that disconnect?

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I think there is always this belief that, you know, I started this habit of, okay, I just
need to do this for another year and then I'll get back to kind of what I was doing

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before, right?

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But you don't realise that all these things that you're building up are structures in your
life, right?

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you know, kind of everything you're doing now is building on something, right?

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So I'd be, okay, so if you work a lot, you're setting yourself up to work a lot.

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You know, and it's like, if

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play a lot, you're setting yourself up to play a lot.

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And like, I was just setting myself up just to work more and more.

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I I just found myself buried in it.

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And what I was able to do is just be like, I kind of, I remained connected to the
possibility of connecting with this creative energy again.

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And so it was kind of hope.

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It was kind of, you know, a memory of it.

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It was kind of a

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I know, like I understood that it was possible.

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It was something I believed even though I didn't see, have that belief reflected back to
me from the world.

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So you manage to make sense of it before you burnt out, before you hit a rock bottom or
anything like that.

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Yeah, I think I hit bottoms and I always say that I, it wasn't like a rock bottom.

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But there were certainly, there were certainly bottoms.

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And I think that, you know, just one of those things, I think I remember the time, so I
was married for a short time.

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And know, humor is really big with me.

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I like, I like to laugh about things.

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And I realized now that I used humor to kind

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And I think this is true with comedians, know, not that I'm a comedian, but I think you
use it to hide pain.

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I used to tell people because they're like, wow, you're getting divorced?

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And I was like, yeah, it was a very successful marriage for two and a half years, you
know, and they'd kind of laugh and they wouldn't ask any more

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But you know, I think to honor both her and I in that, we just, didn't, there was no
vision for us.

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It was just caught up in the moment of excitement.

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And you know, I think a relationship is deeper than that.

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It needs a deeper connection on purpose and what you're creating in the world.

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And I remember, it's almost embarrassing for me to admit now, but this was seven or eight
years ago.

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I remember thinking, well, when I was getting divorced and that was all happening, was
like, well, I guess the whole world is screwed up and here I am doing everything right.

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And man, I'm just, I was put in a shitty situation.

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And that's so silly because the exact opposite was true, right?

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I was just so disconnected from who I really am and who I really wanted to create

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the world was responding as such.

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And that's really become clear to me

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I think that's remarkable.

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I I actually want to acknowledge you first for appreciating your ex.

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And, you know, there is a connection there still you respect her.

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So many people, you know, falls apart.

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I hate you.

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Take the children, take the money, fight, fight, fight.

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you know, that awareness is remarkable and I wish more people would have that compassion.

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So I think that is super.

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I really take my hat off to you for that.

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And also that you had that wisdom to see how important it was to stay authentic.

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And that must have been quite hard because as Andy said, that mask of, I'm fine, I'm fine,
is, I did it.

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I'm fine.

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Everything is all right as I was falling apart and crying inside.

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that's particularly that's what men do, isn't it?

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We have to put that face on because we're expected to.

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which I think is sad, very very sad.

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But what has happened now then, now that you've made sense of who you were, what you were
doing and what you are doing now, how has your life changed in that respect?

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It's kind of funny because the way, well, first of all, I want to say that, yeah, I
acknowledge the compliment you said about not being angry with my ex -wife.

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But I think really what was happening was that was my way of doing it was being like,
well, you can't help it.

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You're just screwed up like the rest of the world.

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And some people, the way they do that is they get real angry and they say, I'm taking the
kids, I'm taking everything from you and that.

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I that awareness wasn't there.

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And so I that was kind of my way of doing that.

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I just instead of just blaming her, I just blamed her as a default for being in the world.

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It's just to me, that sounds that sounds funny now.

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But but your question was what what has happened now?

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And I think just really an increased just such a huge growing and self awareness, you
know, so there was no

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I could not see my fault in the marriage, for example.

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I could not see, I was doing, I had kind of a checklist in my mind.

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I was like, we'll get a nice place to live, we'll make it so she doesn't really have to
work if she doesn't want to.

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These are not things that she wanted.

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She wanted to be in the trenches with me.

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I just, at the end of the day, I think really what happened was is that I wasn't ready.

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for that.

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didn't, you know, I wasn't self -assured enough.

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I wanted to go and in my own trench and do my own thing and do my own work.

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And it just, that's, that's easy.

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You know, it's a, no, I don't, you stay over there.

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That's not a relationship, you know, it just isn't.

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And so I think what's, what's happened is just growing awareness of that, of the story
that I was telling myself about my life.

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And then realising that even now, you know, I work

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a coach and I have a therapist just because I believe in this idea of self discovery and I
don't know that you ever get to a place where you're like, okay, I'm discovered.

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know, but I, you know, like, like I just had, you know, I coach people, I work with people
on things and I sometimes I had this great conversation with my coach the other day.

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And, you know, he literally said, it's funny where you can end up in these things.

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And he said,

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I can't remember the context exactly of our conversation.

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goes, so you measure life in time.

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Life is measured in time.

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And I just was thinking, I just immediately like welled up.

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was like, yeah, I'm like, everything's based on time.

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Like I'm just saying, I've got to do this for so long instead of you know, acknowledging
what I have and being present.

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And that experience of gaining that self -awareness of man, I'm just sitting here being
like, okay,

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Tuesday's done, Wednesday's done, check.

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It's just, you're not in life then.

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Life to you is checking things off your checklist instead of actually being there.

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And I've found that over and over over again.

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Just be there.

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Just show up there.

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Yeah, you remember the past, but the only thing that's really there is now.

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Even in the future, when you're there, when you get there, it's gonna be now.

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So that self -awareness, you know, to just answer your question, I think just this
increasing self -awareness and realizing that there isn't a place you get to.

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It's a continuous growing in self -awareness.

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There's magic in

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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I think that's so important.

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yeah, it is Awareness for me, awareness of who I am, what I'm doing.

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And that's, that is important.

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And it, takes slowing down, doesn't it?

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It takes slowing down and taking a bit more effort and being retrospective, looking at the
past, but not like, God, I did that, but I did that.

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And what can I learn from it?

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So yeah, you have to look back at the past, but

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lean on it as the only crutch you've got, can make new decisions.

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I think that's really important.

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Yeah, and I think what you said, being still like being, I can't remember the exact term,
being, slowing down is what you said.

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And I think just one of the things I realised is that, you know, we live in a very Western
culture.

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It's like hustle and grind and all this stuff.

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and that's, that's kind of silly, especially if you're trying to decide what your life is
about.

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And one of the things during this kind of awakening that I had

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I discovered yoga, which it's kind of funny because I always felt called to do yoga, but I
was like, that's like a, it's a woman's thing.

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As a matter of fact, my father asked me, goes, are you being a yoga teacher to pick up
women?

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know, I'm like, no, it's because, know, I never, you know, as a man, like you said, I
never thought about my body.

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was just a tool to get worked on, right?

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But just, like, wow.

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Now, like just before this call, you know, it's early in the morning here, I did a 45
minute yoga practice that I'm just not gonna be right that day if I don't do it.

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But the one thing that you really learn in doing that is that there's one method which we
have to hustle and grind is go out there and get the life you want, get the things, buy,

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get lots of money, buy all this stuff.

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that's, you know, a lot of our world is set up around

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But there's also something else too, where, you know, in yoga and meditation, what you're
doing is you're actually creating space.

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You're creating a bubble around you.

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And then you're just kind of, okay, what's calling me?

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Where am I feeling pulled to?

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And it takes a while to be able to, you know, because then you're like, you know what?

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got to go text this person or I have to go do this and do, know, and you just, you know,
no, no, no, I'm creating this space here.

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And then when you, there is a skill there, I guess.

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00:16:19,442 --> 00:16:21,944
you can feel where you're being pulled.

208
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And a lot of times, this is where you discover your kind of purpose, if you will.

209
00:16:27,679 --> 00:16:31,382
And it always, why do I want to say always?

210
00:16:31,382 --> 00:16:42,091
Because nothing's always, but it usually has to do with connecting with somebody or
impacting somebody else in a way.

211
00:16:42,091 --> 00:16:44,382
It has to be in relationship.

212
00:16:44,843 --> 00:16:48,786
And I think that if we all could quiet our minds,

213
00:16:48,926 --> 00:16:53,179
We find that our nature is to actually want to help other people.

214
00:16:53,179 --> 00:16:59,774
And that's been, that's, that's transformed because I think that's transformed the way I
thought about the world.

215
00:16:59,774 --> 00:17:09,282
Cause I'd always be like, okay, there's, you know, when I'm looking at the world, the
person who just cut me off or whatever, I would think that guy is just trying to take

216
00:17:09,282 --> 00:17:11,834
something, you know, he's trying to win, you know?

217
00:17:11,834 --> 00:17:16,908
And now I look at it like, what, what is happening to where he can't get

218
00:17:16,908 --> 00:17:26,904
he or she can't get to the point where they're able to help somebody, they're able to
connect because that's really what people want.

219
00:17:27,305 --> 00:17:31,368
That's what we want as a species, as humanity.

220
00:17:31,468 --> 00:17:44,139
And even the most heinous acts of, know, ignorance or violence, they're all kind of,
they're all rooted in something that is removing something out of the way to be able

221
00:17:44,139 --> 00:17:47,920
to impact somebody, to be able to share kind of love.

222
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,551
And I think to me, that's my way I explain to myself is like, all you need is love.

223
00:17:52,551 --> 00:17:59,043
It sounds like a flowery thing, but I think that's what that's saying is that when it
comes down to it, we want to help each other.

224
00:18:00,064 --> 00:18:08,676
And this kind of hustle and grind kind of culture and go get what you want is, it gets in
the way of that.

225
00:18:08,676 --> 00:18:12,347
To being calm, being still and trying

226
00:18:13,045 --> 00:18:15,156
just figure out where you're being pulled.

227
00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:20,459
You have to really, really be still to understand that.

228
00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:27,754
And that's just another kind of branch of self -awareness that has really impacted the
journey.

229
00:18:27,754 --> 00:18:27,955
Yep.

230
00:18:27,955 --> 00:18:34,118
I think that is fab, and so that's the morning practice, you always sit down and do
something in the mornings or do something in the mornings.

231
00:18:34,417 --> 00:18:40,483
Yeah, no, definitely do a meditation and a yoga practice.

232
00:18:40,483 --> 00:18:51,052
And really that's one of the other things that in this period of kind of transformation
is, know, I really, I was having a lot of trouble just at work even.

233
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I would write a to -do list and I'd get to work and work really hard and then never get to
the to -do list.

234
00:18:58,218 --> 00:19:00,701
And I'm like, okay, I got a focus problem.

235
00:19:00,701 --> 00:19:01,213
And I...

236
00:19:01,213 --> 00:19:06,833
read somewhere that people who are approaching 40 start having testosterone issues.

237
00:19:06,833 --> 00:19:07,713
So I go to the doctor.

238
00:19:07,713 --> 00:19:09,393
I'm like, listen, I got low testosterone.

239
00:19:09,393 --> 00:19:10,273
You got to check me.

240
00:19:10,273 --> 00:19:13,713
She's like, why do think that?

241
00:19:13,833 --> 00:19:16,133
Anyway, she's like, you don't have low testosterone.

242
00:19:16,133 --> 00:19:18,813
So she's like, go talk to a psychiatrist.

243
00:19:18,853 --> 00:19:23,153
And they're like, well, have the psychiatrist is like, let's take these tests.

244
00:19:23,153 --> 00:19:24,393
Let's talk a little bit.

245
00:19:24,393 --> 00:19:27,833
Well, you clearly have ADHD.

246
00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:29,244
And I'm like, what?

247
00:19:29,244 --> 00:19:33,226
I don't know if this is just something that people have suggested to me throughout my
whole life.

248
00:19:33,226 --> 00:19:39,381
I started began telling people in my life, I was just diagnosed with ADHD and they're
like, what you didn't know?

249
00:19:39,381 --> 00:19:48,128
I just, know, whatever you might think about that, it was something that I was, I was
shocked by.

250
00:19:48,128 --> 00:19:52,071
And so I realized that, you know, I, there's certain things I have to do.

251
00:19:52,071 --> 00:19:57,334
also run and I was doing all these things to really just organize and calm.

252
00:19:57,334 --> 00:20:00,876
of the intense energy in my mind.

253
00:20:00,977 --> 00:20:06,391
And you I think that is, you can, you can call it a diagnosis.

254
00:20:06,391 --> 00:20:16,778
But basically what he was saying was that there's just, that's a, that's a, go -go -go
mentality of our culture was just so implanted in there that my brain started running like

255
00:20:16,778 --> 00:20:17,568
that.

256
00:20:17,709 --> 00:20:19,831
And at that time I had to make a choice.

257
00:20:19,831 --> 00:20:22,372
I had to be like, am I going to continue to run like this?

258
00:20:22,372 --> 00:20:24,425
Or am I going to,

259
00:20:24,425 --> 00:20:29,868
invest some time every day so that way I can really experience and be in my life.

260
00:20:30,068 --> 00:20:32,990
And most days I choose that.

261
00:20:32,990 --> 00:20:41,295
So I think practices like that and it doesn't have to be yoga, it doesn't have to be you
know anything.

262
00:20:41,295 --> 00:20:49,239
It just it has to be some kind of being in touch with your life, being here now you're not
concerned about the past or present.

263
00:20:49,259 --> 00:20:52,801
It's funny how I think of like some of the the best

264
00:20:52,905 --> 00:20:58,096
memories that I have are actually just there's not much happening in the visual part of
the memory, right?

265
00:20:58,096 --> 00:21:03,378
It's just this it's like the way the light comes in a window or something.

266
00:21:03,378 --> 00:21:14,731
But what's actually attached to that is this feeling of peace of being in the moment and
kind of seeing like, you know, the dust dance around the light, but you're there for that

267
00:21:14,731 --> 00:21:15,691
moment.

268
00:21:15,731 --> 00:21:22,613
And it just occurred to me the reason why that's such a powerful moment is because my life

269
00:21:23,193 --> 00:21:33,197
up to a certain point was filled with just such a lack of presence that those were the
moments of presence in a bedroom, laying there just waking up in the morning and seeing

270
00:21:33,197 --> 00:21:34,258
the sun come in.

271
00:21:34,258 --> 00:21:36,078
I'll think about that all the time.

272
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:40,350
And I was relying on those things just naturally happening.

273
00:21:40,350 --> 00:21:48,764
Cause we all have natural moments of presence, but you know, just like working out or
something, you can train yourself to be more present.

274
00:21:48,764 --> 00:21:51,196
And I think there's always more to gain

275
00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:52,236
I love that.

276
00:21:52,236 --> 00:21:53,087
can see that as well.

277
00:21:53,087 --> 00:21:56,068
can just see rolling over and just seeing the dust.

278
00:21:56,068 --> 00:21:59,319
I often go for walk around sunsets, especially in autumn and winter.

279
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:04,120
And the other day I was just doing that, just striding along, storming away in my own
head.

280
00:22:04,180 --> 00:22:09,241
And suddenly there was the sun coming from in front of me to one side and a whole lot of
bugs.

281
00:22:09,802 --> 00:22:16,084
And my whole body went jump, jump into slow motion, just watching them, just fluttering
around, the light catching them.

282
00:22:16,084 --> 00:22:17,754
Took a few photographs.

283
00:22:18,254 --> 00:22:19,654
and just watch these little things.

284
00:22:19,654 --> 00:22:23,006
weren't fireflies, they were just translucent, so glowing.

285
00:22:23,006 --> 00:22:28,107
But my whole system went, thank you, slow down and listen and watch.

286
00:22:28,107 --> 00:22:33,809
And that delight of being present, it's, yeah, you remember it.

287
00:22:33,809 --> 00:22:34,729
I remember that.

288
00:22:34,729 --> 00:22:36,300
I'm always going to remember that.

289
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:42,262
And I think it's, yeah, it's really precious, isn't it?

290
00:22:42,262 --> 00:22:47,306
Yeah, and it's, I can tell by the way you tell that story, it's profound.

291
00:22:47,306 --> 00:22:48,366
It was an experience.

292
00:22:48,366 --> 00:22:58,924
But if you go to the office and you're talking to the guys or girls at the office and
you're like, I walking today and, know, I saw the light coming up over the horizon and

293
00:22:58,924 --> 00:23:02,326
they're like, well, that's great, Hamish, you know, we got work to do.

294
00:23:02,326 --> 00:23:04,537
You know, it just, doesn't fit in that context.

295
00:23:04,537 --> 00:23:10,101
But, you know, I think there's a general truth to

296
00:23:10,101 --> 00:23:16,450
But I think that that, again, the meaningfulness in that was, it ran deep.

297
00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:22,121
I want to go back a little bit to your diagnosis of ADHD.

298
00:23:23,842 --> 00:23:32,634
I was listening to some stuff on TikTok the other day and for some reason I following this
bloke and he was saying that it's just a hyper creativity.

299
00:23:32,634 --> 00:23:35,625
Your brain is always creating, wanting to create.

300
00:23:35,625 --> 00:23:40,567
I mean, he says that, someone else says that, someone else says we're all hunter gatherers
and we're the hunters.

301
00:23:40,667 --> 00:23:42,347
We haven't got ADHD of the gatherers.

302
00:23:42,347 --> 00:23:44,888
mean, there's all sorts of theories

303
00:23:45,822 --> 00:23:51,606
I really like that fact that the child is curious and wants to create and wants to do and
wants to be.

304
00:23:51,606 --> 00:23:53,847
I mean, you summed that up at the beginning.

305
00:23:53,847 --> 00:24:01,083
You were creative doing the music in tune, tapping in and had it removed from your life.

306
00:24:02,144 --> 00:24:08,508
I just wonder whether that, what you think about your experience from that, because it's
quite interesting.

307
00:24:08,869 --> 00:24:13,952
So many people I've spoken to, particularly people coming off addiction.

308
00:24:14,594 --> 00:24:25,499
found out they were using their drug, drink, eating as a coping strategy, a self
-medicating.

309
00:24:25,499 --> 00:24:30,691
I certainly was because this thing was doing it at the moment.

310
00:24:30,711 --> 00:24:36,493
And I'm finding the meditating and a slow walk help exactly what you said.

311
00:24:36,493 --> 00:24:40,795
So everything you said, you know, I'm a few days behind your awareness there.

312
00:24:40,795 --> 00:24:43,396
So I'd love to hear a little bit of

313
00:24:44,226 --> 00:24:51,668
So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your thoughts around ADHD, whether you've been
diagnosed or not isn't really important, I don't

314
00:24:51,668 --> 00:24:52,498
Yeah.

315
00:24:52,719 --> 00:24:53,239
Yeah.

316
00:24:53,239 --> 00:24:55,581
I, again, I don't, I don't think it is either.

317
00:24:55,581 --> 00:25:06,770
And that's, so a couple of things, you know, I had a big background in psychology, but I
think when I got diagnosed, it's like, okay, well, now what, what do I do?

318
00:25:06,770 --> 00:25:12,695
So I think that's where I kind of got into coaching was a little bit more future focused,
and it really helped with that.

319
00:25:12,795 --> 00:25:16,518
So that's kind of one distinction there.

320
00:25:16,719 --> 00:25:21,182
I love what you said there about ADHD being like, you know,

321
00:25:21,182 --> 00:25:23,283
brain creatively going into overload.

322
00:25:23,283 --> 00:25:26,954
You know, and I think there's, I've never, I've never looked at it that way.

323
00:25:26,954 --> 00:25:35,288
And I love the way that is because one of the things I realised is that that's my, my,
that's what I love is creation.

324
00:25:35,288 --> 00:25:45,692
mean, that what we're doing right now is we're, creating, you know, and that's, even, even
where there isn't anything to create, I'm looking for a way to create it.

325
00:25:46,092 --> 00:25:48,994
So I think there's a lot, a lot to that.

326
00:25:48,994 --> 00:25:50,394
And I think that,

327
00:25:50,590 --> 00:25:56,575
you know, these practices of meditation, just like any kind of energy, right?

328
00:25:56,575 --> 00:26:05,323
If you've got, you know, I think of like a hose, you know, if you've got a hose that just
has an open round, you know, if you put your thumb over half of it, you focus the energy

329
00:26:05,323 --> 00:26:05,924
of it.

330
00:26:05,924 --> 00:26:16,312
So I think that's why, you know, I feel called the meditation in yoga, because I find if I
calm that stuff down, it focuses the energy into something that could be more meaningful.

331
00:26:16,753 --> 00:26:17,574
And

332
00:26:18,402 --> 00:26:29,187
When I say meaningful, guess I mean impactful, you know, because if I'm just shooting
water shooting energy everywhere, you know, it just it doesn't It doesn't have an intent

333
00:26:29,187 --> 00:26:29,437
right?

334
00:26:29,437 --> 00:26:38,421
So you're putting intent behind it just kind of focusing into something and I think Yeah,
so I really like what you said about the creative energy there.

335
00:26:38,421 --> 00:26:41,382
I think that that is that is probably true.

336
00:26:41,382 --> 00:26:45,794
I think And I think it does tie into

337
00:26:47,246 --> 00:26:55,269
I kind of came across this because you and I have talked about alcoholism and addiction.

338
00:26:55,329 --> 00:27:03,783
And really what we know now about that is that people need to do things to regulate their
emotions.

339
00:27:03,783 --> 00:27:10,235
So some of us are naturally, we can just think ourselves into being calm.

340
00:27:10,556 --> 00:27:16,358
And some of us, we need to do something drastic to calm ourselves down.

341
00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:18,711
And it's not good or bad.

342
00:27:18,711 --> 00:27:21,363
Some of us are just really high highs, really low lows.

343
00:27:21,363 --> 00:27:26,275
And we're trying to mitigate that journey between the two gaps.

344
00:27:26,275 --> 00:27:33,419
And I think I see people, I used to think of people because alcoholism runs in my family
and I never was really subject to that.

345
00:27:33,419 --> 00:27:35,560
But I had a lot of harsh judgments.

346
00:27:36,021 --> 00:27:46,194
And I started realizing as I got older and I understood what was actually happening with
them is that they were really desperately trying to, like you said,

347
00:27:46,194 --> 00:27:50,717
regulate, like turn down the thoughts, turn down the feelings.

348
00:27:50,838 --> 00:27:58,543
And that's just the same as, as, as what I was trying to do with music or art or whatever.

349
00:27:58,543 --> 00:28:02,646
And there are probably times in there where I used alcohol in the same way.

350
00:28:03,727 --> 00:28:08,630
I really just think that I, as much as I loved beer, I think I was a little bit allergic
to it.

351
00:28:08,731 --> 00:28:10,282
But anyway, that's it.

352
00:28:10,282 --> 00:28:11,732
That's another story.

353
00:28:11,893 --> 00:28:13,384
But I really realize now

354
00:28:13,384 --> 00:28:15,275
we're all trying to do that to some degree.

355
00:28:15,275 --> 00:28:17,157
have to regulate ourselves.

356
00:28:17,157 --> 00:28:22,361
We just don't want to be subject to, we want to, we need to have some control.

357
00:28:22,742 --> 00:28:32,079
And I think also too, there's something to be said about, you know, I can't remember who
it was off the top of my head, but we said there's three primal drives, right?

358
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:37,213
The drive to be safe, the drive to eat, the drive to procreate.

359
00:28:37,274 --> 00:28:42,730
Well, this certain scientist, which I can't remember who it was, he said there's actually
a fourth,

360
00:28:42,730 --> 00:28:55,190
Drive to he believes is equal and that is the drive to alter your consciousness and so we
do that through you know, really what we're able to Project our consciousness forward and

361
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:56,521
be like I want to do this.

362
00:28:56,521 --> 00:29:09,312
I want to go on this journey here Dogs don't do that, you know, they're like, we hungry my
foods over here, know, we we are able to kind of imagine the future that is consciousness

363
00:29:09,312 --> 00:29:12,784
being you know kind of adjusted modified

364
00:29:12,786 --> 00:29:17,507
And so we've, some of us really get a lot of value from that.

365
00:29:17,507 --> 00:29:25,950
So the whole process of, you know, take drinking alcohol or even smoking cigarettes or
smoking marijuana that alters your consciousness.

366
00:29:25,950 --> 00:29:31,011
And so this person is saying, listen, that is a, that's a primal drive.

367
00:29:31,011 --> 00:29:34,492
So some people eat food that alters your consciousness.

368
00:29:34,492 --> 00:29:42,514
Some people exercise it alters your consciousness, but what we're able to do with that
altering of consciousness is better understand ourselves.

369
00:29:42,762 --> 00:29:47,373
is better strategise survival and fulfillment.

370
00:29:47,373 --> 00:29:49,493
And so there's a lot there.

371
00:29:49,493 --> 00:29:50,293
There's a lot there with that.

372
00:29:50,293 --> 00:29:54,653
And I think it totally changed the way I think about addiction.

373
00:29:54,673 --> 00:30:01,693
It totally changed the way I think about just the way that we regulate.

374
00:30:01,693 --> 00:30:03,873
Because I'd see people, I smoked for years.

375
00:30:03,873 --> 00:30:06,053
I started smoking when I was like 12.

376
00:30:06,053 --> 00:30:09,453
And I looking back now, even when I was younger, had

377
00:30:09,690 --> 00:30:20,400
anxiety so I would hide behind the school and be smoking a cigarette but it would kind of
calm me down and I'll see people smoking now and my first thought is that person should

378
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:28,865
quit but I realised that is their choice to kind of regulate themselves so the judgments
kind of gone away there if you

379
00:30:28,865 --> 00:30:32,316
we're just trying to keep ourselves safe, aren't Exactly.

380
00:30:32,316 --> 00:30:36,958
One of those three plus one, one of those four things, just trying to keep ourselves safe.

381
00:30:36,958 --> 00:30:47,172
And that's everything from lashing out, from being reactive, from being passive, from
being the victim, from isolating, from eating to hide in full sight, from drinking.

382
00:30:47,172 --> 00:30:54,936
I sometimes wonder how humanity keeps on going because we're so self -destructive.

383
00:30:54,936 --> 00:30:56,066
But obviously

384
00:30:56,488 --> 00:30:59,386
Third one, procreating is very strong.

385
00:30:59,984 --> 00:31:01,984
Yeah, it is too.

386
00:31:02,024 --> 00:31:05,384
And here's so here's something else that I learned because I just had.

387
00:31:05,664 --> 00:31:08,384
Well, 15 months ago, I had twin boys.

388
00:31:08,464 --> 00:31:11,824
And so I was talking about another journey.

389
00:31:11,824 --> 00:31:14,644
I was the oldest of six and we were very close in age.

390
00:31:14,644 --> 00:31:17,444
And I was just, you know, take your brothers here, you have to do this.

391
00:31:17,444 --> 00:31:20,584
So I walked around for 20 years being like, I'm not having children.

392
00:31:21,044 --> 00:31:22,504
That's another story.

393
00:31:22,504 --> 00:31:28,584
But I had these two children who they they cannot fend for themselves, right?

394
00:31:28,584 --> 00:31:29,528
They when they're born.

395
00:31:29,528 --> 00:31:30,548
And they still can't.

396
00:31:30,548 --> 00:31:32,559
I realized it really changed.

397
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:38,292
This changed the way I thought about humanity because yeah, the drive to procreate is
enormous, right?

398
00:31:38,292 --> 00:31:41,573
And that, that at least starts the process, right?

399
00:31:41,573 --> 00:31:42,823
Of, keeping humanity going.

400
00:31:42,823 --> 00:31:58,800
But it takes such care and patience and, and love to, you know, keep children safe, and
fed and alive that it just changed the way I thought

401
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,600
humanity.

402
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:05,000
It's got to be, of course, we have people on the edges who don't personal by those things.

403
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:11,220
you know, and there's, there's problems, there's unheard of things we will, we could talk
about there.

404
00:32:11,380 --> 00:32:18,220
But for the most part, look, there's going to be 9 billion of us pretty soon on the earth,
right?

405
00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:25,380
And, and this is because of such a natural predilection to want to take care of each

406
00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:30,244
So that's what I hear when you say that, you know, hey, how does humanity survive?

407
00:32:30,244 --> 00:32:33,829
It's because that's our natural instinct is to take care of each

408
00:32:33,829 --> 00:32:35,290
I love that.

409
00:32:35,531 --> 00:32:46,370
The energy of this conversation is going round and round and that, you know, the fact that
we are, and I agree with you and a lot of people think, you know, humanity is awful and la

410
00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:52,736
la la, but there is, you know, love is overpoweringly wonderful.

411
00:32:52,736 --> 00:32:59,963
And yes, it's scary, but, you know, I haven't had kids, so congratulations and good luck
in equal measure.

412
00:32:59,963 --> 00:33:00,784
Yeah

413
00:33:00,784 --> 00:33:11,301
But yeah, mean, you've explained that to me and obviously my brother and sister have, you
know, they've chosen to have children and that sense of self and I've got to do this.

414
00:33:11,301 --> 00:33:18,677
Suddenly you have to bring this little life alive and look after every waking and sleeping
moment.

415
00:33:18,677 --> 00:33:19,998
that's hard.

416
00:33:19,998 --> 00:33:24,231
But also you said it's changed your perspective completely.

417
00:33:24,231 --> 00:33:27,514
And I just think that's something I will never experience.

418
00:33:27,514 --> 00:33:31,849
And I'm not, trust me, it'll be a miracle.

419
00:33:32,671 --> 00:33:35,524
It will be a miracle or a word with a surgeon.

420
00:33:35,524 --> 00:33:36,595
yeah.

421
00:33:37,648 --> 00:33:47,293
I think that, you know, I agree with everything you said there, except there's one piece
and they're like, and I don't want to speak for all parents, but the thing that I found

422
00:33:47,293 --> 00:33:50,485
was it was not, this is the thing that really moved me.

423
00:33:50,485 --> 00:33:52,016
It's not as hard as I thought.

424
00:33:52,576 --> 00:34:03,032
I thought it would be very difficult to have the children, you know, they will, test your
patience and, but that's okay.

425
00:34:03,032 --> 00:34:06,464
You know, it's like you just, you kind of work your way through it.

426
00:34:06,464 --> 00:34:13,349
it, it's so funny because I remember looking in the mirror right before we were going,
there were twins.

427
00:34:13,349 --> 00:34:19,643
So they, we had them naturally in the operating room, but just in case there was problems,
go to the operating room.

428
00:34:19,643 --> 00:34:21,234
So they're like, all right, dad, get ready.

429
00:34:21,234 --> 00:34:22,785
And I remember I was like, so nervous.

430
00:34:22,785 --> 00:34:24,856
I was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

431
00:34:25,037 --> 00:34:27,739
And it's the most natural thing in the world.

432
00:34:27,739 --> 00:34:32,826
It's just like, yeah, we've been doing this for literally thousands of years, you know.

433
00:34:32,826 --> 00:34:43,286
And just what happens to you like this, you know, I slept in the most uncomfortable chair
for the first night and got up every 20 minutes just to kind of make sure they're okay.

434
00:34:43,286 --> 00:34:45,846
And it's, you know, it's just natural.

435
00:34:45,846 --> 00:34:57,386
It's just like, you know, when you when you learn how to walk, you just it's difficult
first, right, or whatever, but you you enjoy the the progress you enjoy walking then, you

436
00:34:57,386 --> 00:35:02,526
know, and it's just another very fascinating, you know,

437
00:35:02,806 --> 00:35:03,746
facet of life.

438
00:35:03,746 --> 00:35:06,147
That's just, it's interesting.

439
00:35:06,147 --> 00:35:16,280
It's, yeah, there's, I would be like, yeah, I haven't slept in three days or whatever, you
know, but it wasn't as difficult as if I was, you know, studying for three days or

440
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,940
whatever, like I might have been in school or what have you.

441
00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:23,832
So, yeah, just such an interesting experience.

442
00:35:24,332 --> 00:35:32,696
But it really has, you know, I think that we kind of have this nervous system that's set
up, you know, and we've got fight or flight.

443
00:35:32,696 --> 00:35:38,560
And we've got, you know, this kind of rest and digest and, you know, care and relaxation.

444
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:44,564
I think if you look at those as two separate lenses, you can see what they project into
the world.

445
00:35:44,564 --> 00:35:44,804
Right.

446
00:35:44,804 --> 00:35:50,277
So you've got violence comes from this, you know, this fight or flight.

447
00:35:50,418 --> 00:35:52,059
You know, it's part of all of us.

448
00:35:52,059 --> 00:35:52,289
Right.

449
00:35:52,289 --> 00:35:56,352
But I think when you see violence in the world, it's because it's based in fear.

450
00:35:56,352 --> 00:35:57,702
Right.

451
00:35:58,043 --> 00:36:02,466
And then you've also got this other lens, which is like rest and digest and,

452
00:36:03,254 --> 00:36:08,908
Care for your your young ones and all that net that that comes from a place of peace.

453
00:36:08,908 --> 00:36:13,842
So it's like which which Which lens are you feeding?

454
00:36:13,842 --> 00:36:14,192
Right?

455
00:36:14,192 --> 00:36:23,389
So if you're just going to you know, hustle and grind hustle and grind that's going to
project a lot of violence out into the world right it whereas with if you're going to

456
00:36:23,389 --> 00:36:30,333
create space and growth and nurture things you're gonna have a different perspective of
the world, so

457
00:36:32,184 --> 00:36:35,123
I don't know how I got there, Hamish, but yeah.

458
00:36:37,170 --> 00:36:50,240
That's actually really interesting because you've opened up another question there because
how do we, when we find ourselves in that negative, the angry, it's also protective, also

459
00:36:50,240 --> 00:37:02,979
a masculine energy, it's not all negative, but how do you step back into the other side
where your sympathetic system is not fight or flight, you're able to calm down?

460
00:37:04,454 --> 00:37:07,555
How would I move across to that when I become aware of

461
00:37:08,398 --> 00:37:11,849
Yeah, I think the key part of your question is when you become aware of it.

462
00:37:11,849 --> 00:37:22,502
Because, you know, we know now because the brain is, you know, actually your amygdala,
which controls those responses initially, is reacting before you're conscious of anything.

463
00:37:22,502 --> 00:37:25,823
Okay, I think we know that now.

464
00:37:26,223 --> 00:37:30,544
So a lot of times when you're in that fight or flight mode, you're not aware of it when
you enter it.

465
00:37:30,544 --> 00:37:30,954
Yeah.

466
00:37:30,954 --> 00:37:36,756
So I think, you know, that's kind of the survival brain kind of taking over, right?

467
00:37:36,756 --> 00:37:37,610
It's where

468
00:37:37,610 --> 00:37:46,102
anxiety comes from because we evolved, if you will, into a world where we're always
worried about the tiger that's over the hill.

469
00:37:46,102 --> 00:37:48,743
So we're kind of like a little bit like nervous, right?

470
00:37:48,743 --> 00:37:57,636
And so you can train your brain to completely bypass that.

471
00:37:57,636 --> 00:37:58,516
That's too far.

472
00:37:58,516 --> 00:38:00,106
That's a bridge too far, if you will.

473
00:38:00,106 --> 00:38:06,958
can think of, there's the famous picture of, on the extreme side of things, of that monk.

474
00:38:06,958 --> 00:38:15,123
who in protest of the Vietnam War, you know, covered themselves in gas and there was no
sound, no movement, no nothing.

475
00:38:15,123 --> 00:38:27,410
And so we can assume, we'll never know for sure, that he was so far to this, you know,
being disconnected from, or just, you know, being able to separate himself from his body,

476
00:38:27,410 --> 00:38:35,914
his bodily sensations that, you know, he wasn't able to react or, you know, there was no
reaction to this terrible pain that he was going through, right?

477
00:38:35,988 --> 00:38:38,159
That's, that's an extreme example.

478
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:44,942
On the other side, you've got, you know, people who just are, you know, they're fearful of
other people.

479
00:38:44,942 --> 00:38:48,824
They're, you know, kind of, everybody's kind of out to get you type thing.

480
00:38:48,824 --> 00:38:57,778
if, you know, our brain is also, if we're looking for what we're wanting to find, so we
can literally find evidence for whatever it is.

481
00:38:57,778 --> 00:39:00,789
So again, that goes for what I'm saying here too.

482
00:39:00,929 --> 00:39:03,090
So, you know, that's why there's

483
00:39:03,150 --> 00:39:08,694
hey, this is the way it is because we're all dealing with kind of our perception and these
things are in there.

484
00:39:08,694 --> 00:39:19,301
So the number one thing, once you realize you're in there, Andrew Huberman, is a, he's a
neurologist at Stanford.

485
00:39:19,322 --> 00:39:30,910
He has a great podcast and I've learned a lot from him, but he has this, there's one
breathing technique that is shown to move you from your

486
00:39:31,342 --> 00:39:35,744
fight or flight to your rest and digest very quickly.

487
00:39:35,744 --> 00:39:38,606
And that's called the physiological sigh.

488
00:39:38,746 --> 00:39:46,150
And if you I'll demonstrate it here, but if you think about it, this looks like children
when they're trying to when you know, they're really upset, and they start calming

489
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:52,573
themselves down, they start doing this, it's like, you know, you'll see children going
like that.

490
00:39:52,573 --> 00:39:59,857
And what they're actually doing is they're that's their body's natural response to move
from fight or flight to rest and digest, right?

491
00:39:59,857 --> 00:40:00,998
So you've got

492
00:40:01,178 --> 00:40:06,038
If I catch myself moving in that, it could be just sometimes it's for no reason at all.

493
00:40:06,038 --> 00:40:15,158
You know, you see somebody who, when you're walking in the grocery store or the market and
you see somebody that is threatening to you and all of a sudden you're like thinking,

494
00:40:15,158 --> 00:40:18,638
like, oh, I'll inhale about 95%.

495
00:40:18,638 --> 00:40:26,318
And then, and you do that five times and it starts switching over.

496
00:40:27,018 --> 00:40:28,378
And I

497
00:40:28,472 --> 00:40:31,524
That's one way to really access it right away in the moment.

498
00:40:31,524 --> 00:40:44,653
And I think things like meditation and yoga and martial arts and mindfulness activities,
what you're trying to do is you're trying to, a simplified way to say it is really kind of

499
00:40:44,653 --> 00:40:46,114
switch tracks, right?

500
00:40:46,114 --> 00:40:49,036
You're saying, it's okay.

501
00:40:49,537 --> 00:40:55,300
We're okay, we're gonna move over to this rest and digest part of our nervous system.

502
00:40:55,301 --> 00:40:57,041
And it takes time.

503
00:40:57,892 --> 00:40:58,670
Take practice.

504
00:40:58,670 --> 00:41:01,753
I love that about the children because I can just see kids doing that.

505
00:41:01,753 --> 00:41:04,125
They're crying, they're screaming and they're calming down.

506
00:41:04,125 --> 00:41:06,407
And you probably see that with your two quite often.

507
00:41:06,407 --> 00:41:12,773
I can watch it and I can feel my whole body as they're doing it.

508
00:41:12,773 --> 00:41:15,856
mean, a parent, like, thank God they're finally calming down.

509
00:41:15,856 --> 00:41:17,427
So it calms the parent down as well.

510
00:41:17,427 --> 00:41:20,210
But really, really interesting.

511
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:20,930
It is, isn't it?

512
00:41:20,930 --> 00:41:25,248
It It's slowing down, becoming aware and

513
00:41:25,248 --> 00:41:28,806
and being intentional, realising that, something's not happening.

514
00:41:28,806 --> 00:41:32,263
So you're learning to feel your body as well, aren't you?

515
00:41:32,263 --> 00:41:34,799
Feel that tightness in your chest when the anxiety comes.

516
00:41:34,799 --> 00:41:36,733
Yeah, love it.

517
00:41:36,733 --> 00:41:46,952
you just, you you start kind of making a list if you are what are the things that happen
like tightening of the chest is a good one or one of the things I realized is when I was,

518
00:41:47,173 --> 00:41:54,259
you know, starting to get stressed out, I would breathe really shallow, I'd be like, you
know, I mean, not maybe a little quicker.

519
00:41:54,559 --> 00:41:57,162
But I noticed that all the time now.

520
00:41:57,162 --> 00:42:00,144
And it's like, okay, you know, let's deepen, deepen our breath.

521
00:42:00,144 --> 00:42:03,387
And then, you know, that can be

522
00:42:03,391 --> 00:42:05,573
such a powerful signal and it's different for all of us.

523
00:42:05,573 --> 00:42:09,986
Sometimes it's like tightening in my shoulders or sometimes it's just like making fists.

524
00:42:09,986 --> 00:42:11,076
I'll realize that I'm doing it.

525
00:42:11,076 --> 00:42:12,547
I'm like, what's going on here?

526
00:42:12,547 --> 00:42:15,960
You know, and just learning how to notice those things.

527
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,521
And it's not, again, it's a practice.

528
00:42:18,521 --> 00:42:20,133
It's not something you're like, Hey, I get there.

529
00:42:20,133 --> 00:42:28,098
can, I can hit the switch whenever I want to, because what happens in this practice is you
keep getting, is this kind of your brain's job.

530
00:42:28,098 --> 00:42:28,989
You keep getting tricked.

531
00:42:28,989 --> 00:42:30,150
You're like, wait, that's not scary.

532
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:31,140
I can't believe they got me.

533
00:42:31,140 --> 00:42:32,741
I can't believe I got upset over

534
00:42:32,949 --> 00:42:42,065
You know, and so it's interesting, that's, you know, kind of back to our topic of like
self regulation.

535
00:42:42,206 --> 00:42:52,624
A lot of that is when you talk about addiction and things like that, that's what's
happening to us is that that's the easiest thing to do is to have have the drink or

536
00:42:52,624 --> 00:42:56,467
whatever it is, you know, or to take the drug.

537
00:42:56,948 --> 00:42:58,929
And that is

538
00:43:00,349 --> 00:43:04,301
I mean, as a matter of fact, there's some genius to that because it's so efficient, right?

539
00:43:04,301 --> 00:43:09,283
So you can't be, you know, you can't say that anybody who's an addict is not intelligent.

540
00:43:09,283 --> 00:43:10,213
That's not the truth.

541
00:43:10,213 --> 00:43:13,234
It's just, wow, I'm having this experience.

542
00:43:13,234 --> 00:43:14,465
And that's what your brain does.

543
00:43:14,465 --> 00:43:18,957
It puts you in fight or flight, which is like really anxious, really, you know, it doesn't
feel good to be there.

544
00:43:18,957 --> 00:43:25,839
And the easiest thing to do is to go back and to say, okay, I'm going to have that drink
or whatever, whatever it is.

545
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:28,801
And that's going to immediately switch you back over.

546
00:43:28,801 --> 00:43:30,341
It's just the cost of

547
00:43:30,759 --> 00:43:33,871
over time is a great cost to

548
00:43:35,854 --> 00:43:39,226
You've nailed it on the head when it comes to my understanding of addiction.

549
00:43:39,226 --> 00:43:45,451
Because I was, I found a way to make sense of what I didn't understand.

550
00:43:45,451 --> 00:43:46,742
I couldn't have conversations.

551
00:43:46,742 --> 00:43:50,304
I had certain beliefs that were incongruent to who I was.

552
00:43:50,444 --> 00:43:51,405
Flipping brilliant.

553
00:43:51,405 --> 00:43:52,166
It works.

554
00:43:52,166 --> 00:43:52,886
It works.

555
00:43:52,886 --> 00:43:53,727
This works.

556
00:43:53,727 --> 00:43:54,647
For eating works.

557
00:43:54,647 --> 00:43:55,568
It all works.

558
00:43:55,568 --> 00:43:57,319
But as you said, it's that crutch.

559
00:43:57,319 --> 00:43:59,270
It gets old and it breaks.

560
00:44:00,579 --> 00:44:06,041
I told my doctor recently I had to check up for something and I said I used to drink and
he said that's not very healthy.

561
00:44:06,041 --> 00:44:07,622
I said it kept me alive.

562
00:44:08,022 --> 00:44:13,144
I said that was the tool that stopped me killing myself or going mad or whatever.

563
00:44:13,144 --> 00:44:15,465
He just did not understand that at all.

564
00:44:15,465 --> 00:44:18,196
So he'd obviously never had that addiction experience.

565
00:44:18,196 --> 00:44:19,807
which I'm grateful for.

566
00:44:20,107 --> 00:44:23,849
But that realisation when I had it, was that kept me alive.

567
00:44:23,849 --> 00:44:25,389
That's taken all the guilt out.

568
00:44:25,389 --> 00:44:29,851
I don't feel guilty for being an alcoholic or for when I was.

569
00:44:30,952 --> 00:44:34,654
Because it kept me alive going right back to what we said earlier.

570
00:44:34,654 --> 00:44:35,485
It kept me alive.

571
00:44:35,485 --> 00:44:36,456
It kept me feel safe.

572
00:44:36,456 --> 00:44:47,354
So that realization that you've just told me is so important in anything you realize that
well I was keeping myself safe and that's good enough now I know a bit better I don't need

573
00:44:47,354 --> 00:44:51,497
to do that or I can look to change I can go that breathing or whatever.

574
00:44:51,497 --> 00:44:56,701
Yeah, I think that is spectacular important belief

575
00:44:56,947 --> 00:45:00,129
spot and embrace.

576
00:45:00,129 --> 00:45:05,603
Yeah, I really appreciate acknowledging your experience with that.

577
00:45:05,603 --> 00:45:20,022
And I think that's the thing that is probably, if there was something I think for myself
to worry about kind of humanity moving forward is that we have kind of an allegory for

578
00:45:20,022 --> 00:45:20,913
what we just talked about.

579
00:45:20,913 --> 00:45:29,939
We have all these quick fixes now, which they, you know, we talked about the cell phone
and we talked about, think one of the growing epidemics out there is

580
00:45:29,963 --> 00:45:36,905
porn because it does that same thing to the way the male brain is kind of accessed, right?

581
00:45:36,905 --> 00:45:43,287
It hits all those addictive things and it's a way that people are regulating themselves,
right?

582
00:45:43,287 --> 00:45:45,107
And not just porn.

583
00:45:45,107 --> 00:45:56,481
We're talking about, we could talk about just social media in general because if you think
about it, what the phone is doing is it's accessing your kind of your dopamine networks,

584
00:45:56,481 --> 00:45:56,701
right?

585
00:45:56,701 --> 00:45:58,651
So you're just, you're activated.

586
00:45:58,781 --> 00:46:09,019
And it helps you kind of, we feel like not necessarily energized, but we're on a quest
when we've got dopamine happening, right?

587
00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:12,562
Which is like a lot of what happens with addiction is that you're driven.

588
00:46:12,562 --> 00:46:19,948
Some addictions, it all has to do with dopamine or driving us in a certain area or towards
a certain behavior.

589
00:46:19,948 --> 00:46:21,350
But our phones do that too.

590
00:46:21,350 --> 00:46:27,814
So what happens when, you know, we're all hacked into our computer and we're going to be
like, you know what, want the, right.

591
00:46:28,191 --> 00:46:29,722
It's all about kind of pleasure, right?

592
00:46:29,722 --> 00:46:32,113
So how do I, how do I immediately access this?

593
00:46:32,113 --> 00:46:39,297
You know, you'll probably be able to at some point in time, hit a button on your computer,
a program and be like, okay, now I'm intoxicated.

594
00:46:39,297 --> 00:46:46,331
You know, like it'll just cause your brain to release what happens when you're intoxicated
or, or what have you.

595
00:46:46,331 --> 00:46:50,013
And there's, know, there's some promise in that and I'm sure it'll be announced.

596
00:46:50,013 --> 00:46:56,667
Be like, you know, Hey, if you're feeling depressed, you know, download this app and it'll
be like some kind of thing that's plugged in into you.

597
00:46:56,667 --> 00:46:57,407
you're

598
00:46:57,477 --> 00:46:58,627
I feel better.

599
00:46:58,988 --> 00:47:01,339
But you know, how good is that?

600
00:47:01,339 --> 00:47:10,593
What do we have to, what do we have to change in order to, because there's some something
to be said about agency, right?

601
00:47:10,593 --> 00:47:14,755
I mean, what about about the investment that goes in the front hand of that?

602
00:47:14,755 --> 00:47:18,387
I mean, I don't want to speak for you.

603
00:47:18,387 --> 00:47:23,899
But one of the things that makes your recovery so valuable was the journey of doing it,

604
00:47:24,611 --> 00:47:27,183
Whereas if you were just like, okay, I'm suffering from addiction.

605
00:47:27,183 --> 00:47:28,474
I downloaded this app.

606
00:47:28,474 --> 00:47:32,518
Okay, it's gone It changes the meaning of things for us.

607
00:47:32,518 --> 00:47:43,317
And if we think about it, we're there in a lot of ways Whereas before if you wanted to pay
a bill you had to sit down and write a check and then you know address the envelope, know,

608
00:47:43,317 --> 00:47:52,715
put a mail put a stamp on it put it in the mailbox and now you do it while you're driving
and you know, and we call that we call that convenience too, but

609
00:47:53,035 --> 00:48:00,211
there is kind of a, when we start getting into the real fundamental things, what, you
know, there's a lot of power there.

610
00:48:00,211 --> 00:48:12,742
And so what, what is the right balance of agency and convenience and, you know, self
determination and, and what should determine that, you know, so those are, those are the

611
00:48:12,742 --> 00:48:13,973
things that kind of concern me.

612
00:48:13,973 --> 00:48:19,488
But I think that there is definitely right now, I, I, I get caught by it all the time.

613
00:48:19,488 --> 00:48:20,519
I'm like, my

614
00:48:20,919 --> 00:48:27,842
I talk to people about not doing this and here I am on Instagram mindlessly scrolling, but
it's that same thing.

615
00:48:27,842 --> 00:48:33,945
It's designed to be this kind of activator that activates us just like an addiction is.

616
00:48:33,945 --> 00:48:38,567
And it regulates us too because all of those things kind of work together.

617
00:48:39,047 --> 00:48:46,882
So it's interesting to see what, you know, how this kind of things will progress on this

618
00:48:46,882 --> 00:48:50,855
I think that's a really scary thought, but you're, I completely agree.

619
00:48:51,816 --> 00:48:52,437
it is, isn't it?

620
00:48:52,437 --> 00:48:54,178
You're, giving your agency away.

621
00:48:54,178 --> 00:48:57,901
If you're going to quick fix, you're not learning from it.

622
00:48:59,243 --> 00:49:04,867
you know, there's, there's various drugs you can take to inhibit the alcohol makes you
sick and things like that.

623
00:49:05,107 --> 00:49:06,428
It works for some people.

624
00:49:06,428 --> 00:49:07,329
I guess it does.

625
00:49:07,329 --> 00:49:10,002
I think it's still, I think it's still prevention rather than cure.

626
00:49:10,002 --> 00:49:13,444
You've, you've got to, I think you've got to make sense of it.

627
00:49:13,444 --> 00:49:15,656
At some stage, you've got to take your own agency

628
00:49:16,174 --> 00:49:17,986
and go, yeah, that's not working.

629
00:49:17,986 --> 00:49:20,779
Otherwise, well, you don't have to, I suppose it's choice.

630
00:49:20,779 --> 00:49:27,836
But if you want to thrive, if you want to flourish, if you want to make sense of life, I
think you've got to have that agency back.

631
00:49:27,836 --> 00:49:32,460
And as you said, the phone is a great way to give it back, to lose your agency.

632
00:49:33,035 --> 00:49:44,245
Yeah, I think that's why kind of it's become, I thought about this a lot and kind of my
mission, I guess the way I stated is to kind of elevate human consciousness, right?

633
00:49:44,245 --> 00:49:45,927
What role can I play in that?

634
00:49:45,927 --> 00:49:59,138
And I think, you know, regardless of your religious beliefs or your, you know, not getting
into that territory at all, just there's part of us that is very animalistic.

635
00:49:59,138 --> 00:50:07,221
There's part of us that we have those primal drives, but there's also the part of Ryan
right now that is talking to Hamish.

636
00:50:07,522 --> 00:50:11,143
This is not a primal drive.

637
00:50:11,143 --> 00:50:13,284
We call it consciousness or whatever.

638
00:50:13,284 --> 00:50:27,130
I think that the solution here is, like we said, create this gap between our connection to
our attachment to our physiology and our experience of the

639
00:50:27,358 --> 00:50:29,140
and kind of like our consciousness.

640
00:50:29,140 --> 00:50:37,487
I think, you know, in my view, that's what a lot of the religious texts are really telling
us to do in the world.

641
00:50:37,527 --> 00:50:41,651
Now, I said I wouldn't tread onto religious beliefs and I just did there.

642
00:50:41,651 --> 00:50:42,752
So that's, that's my belief.

643
00:50:42,752 --> 00:50:54,402
But I think that either no matter how you cut it, I think that is, that's really what
needs what we need to be thinking about is how are we, you know, how is our

644
00:50:54,438 --> 00:51:04,282
the uniqueness, whatever this consciousness is, whether it's, you know, there's theories
out there that the way our brains are set up run at a certain Hertz, you know, frequency,

645
00:51:04,282 --> 00:51:06,943
which causes us to be conscious of ourselves.

646
00:51:06,943 --> 00:51:08,884
And what does that actually mean?

647
00:51:09,244 --> 00:51:11,865
but I think we all understand the specialness of it.

648
00:51:11,865 --> 00:51:24,250
And I think to be able to elevate that, to be able to be, you know, not subject to our
nervous system as much, and have the right balance

649
00:51:24,274 --> 00:51:38,484
know, disattachment or detachment and, you know, in connection, you know, I think that's,
that's really the equation that humanity is trying to, to, to solve.

650
00:51:38,484 --> 00:51:42,387
you know, so I just, the headline I put on that is how do we elevate consciousness?

651
00:51:42,387 --> 00:51:49,953
Maybe it's a, you know, how do we appropriately position it in the horizon is a better way
to say it, but, you know, it doesn't feel as right.

652
00:51:49,953 --> 00:51:52,136
But I think that's, I think that's something

653
00:51:52,136 --> 00:51:58,078
we're beginning to, I think as a species, we're beginning to kind of what does this mean?

654
00:51:58,078 --> 00:52:06,360
And there are people out there, regardless of what you think of them, they're thinking
about, well, consciousness needs to go into computers or consciousness, we need to think

655
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,501
about going to other planets or whatever.

656
00:52:08,501 --> 00:52:11,902
These are all very external manifestations of this.

657
00:52:11,902 --> 00:52:19,194
But I think it's a very personal, like kind of internal issue that we've got to deal with.

658
00:52:19,194 --> 00:52:20,694
How do we balance

659
00:52:20,844 --> 00:52:32,881
you know, our consciousness with what's happening with our body, you know, and that's not
just our body, our experience of that and our beliefs about what's going to happen here.

660
00:52:32,881 --> 00:52:35,105
There's just a, there's a lot there to ponder.

661
00:52:35,105 --> 00:52:36,485
There is isn't there.

662
00:52:37,046 --> 00:52:40,038
Eastern philosophy has been doing for thousands and thousands of years.

663
00:52:40,038 --> 00:52:45,671
You know, look at the yin and the yang, that balance, you've said balance several times in
that conversation there.

664
00:52:45,671 --> 00:52:47,091
And it is, yeah.

665
00:52:47,232 --> 00:52:49,203
I mean, what is consciousness?

666
00:52:49,203 --> 00:52:51,824
You know, we can go down a rabbit hole or wormhole there, isn't it?

667
00:52:51,824 --> 00:52:56,527
But it's, it is because, you know, this is my body, the cells change.

668
00:52:56,527 --> 00:53:02,890
you know, if this is me and all the cells have changed, when was I Hamish or when will I
be?

669
00:53:02,890 --> 00:53:03,871
You know, it's...

670
00:53:03,871 --> 00:53:04,732
It's a bit cuckoo.

671
00:53:04,732 --> 00:53:08,474
You know, I'm more than my experiences.

672
00:53:08,474 --> 00:53:10,025
I'm not my emotions and feeling.

673
00:53:10,025 --> 00:53:11,725
Thank God for that.

674
00:53:13,267 --> 00:53:17,089
Certainly during addiction, I'm very glad that those were not true.

675
00:53:17,089 --> 00:53:17,869
They felt it.

676
00:53:17,869 --> 00:53:19,350
That's another story.

677
00:53:20,030 --> 00:53:29,696
So that detachment that you mentioned, explain that to me because I've met this recently
and I'm wrapping my head around it and I just got a treat.

678
00:53:29,696 --> 00:53:30,828
I don't quite follow

679
00:53:30,828 --> 00:53:35,261
how much detachment because in addiction I was too too disattached.

680
00:53:35,261 --> 00:53:36,475
Yeah, I think.

681
00:53:36,516 --> 00:53:51,076
So it's something that I think really needs to be discovered because when I started
meditating, think I followed Sam Harris, which he has an app called Waking Up.

682
00:53:51,076 --> 00:53:55,038
And I've probably been part of that app for like five years.

683
00:53:55,039 --> 00:53:57,490
And it's really powerful.

684
00:53:57,490 --> 00:54:05,866
I when you look at all the different apps that are out there, I use a couple of them, but
Waking Up is kind of my central one.

685
00:54:05,964 --> 00:54:11,759
And the thing that kind of, again, it's really hard to describe an experience, right?

686
00:54:11,759 --> 00:54:17,113
We're kind of describing the dust and the, you know, the swirling and the light kind of
type thing.

687
00:54:17,113 --> 00:54:24,289
But I think that's at least a, you know, headline that kind of points people in the right
direction.

688
00:54:24,289 --> 00:54:33,456
And I think what it really is is it really is kind of understanding what we mean when we
say our, ourself.

689
00:54:33,456 --> 00:54:35,918
And so Sam Harris used to have

690
00:54:36,388 --> 00:54:37,878
This is going be very difficult to explain.

691
00:54:37,878 --> 00:54:41,859
So this might just be, you know, not even worth it, but we'll give it a shot.

692
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:47,591
used to, so doing this meditation and then Sam Harris would say, you know, he kind of
guide you through it.

693
00:54:47,591 --> 00:54:52,572
So I'm sitting there, you know, meditating, but you you having these intrusive thoughts
and all that stuff is happening.

694
00:54:52,572 --> 00:54:58,014
And you're just kind of, you know, it's this process of, I've got to pay, I've got to pay
my bills.

695
00:54:58,014 --> 00:54:58,274
Okay.

696
00:54:58,274 --> 00:54:59,304
Step back.

697
00:54:59,684 --> 00:55:00,355
That's okay.

698
00:55:00,355 --> 00:55:01,565
Let that, let that go.

699
00:55:01,565 --> 00:55:02,485
Okay.

700
00:55:02,485 --> 00:55:03,355
Now my shoulder hurts.

701
00:55:03,355 --> 00:55:03,725
Okay.

702
00:55:03,725 --> 00:55:05,586
Step back and let that go.

703
00:55:05,902 --> 00:55:07,723
That's kind of creating the space.

704
00:55:07,723 --> 00:55:16,046
But then he says, you know, just for a second now, look for who's And I'm like, what?

705
00:55:16,046 --> 00:55:17,537
We look for who's looking.

706
00:55:17,537 --> 00:55:19,807
mean, first of all, was like, my eyes are closed.

707
00:55:19,948 --> 00:55:29,932
Second of all, who's, you know, like externally, but then, you know, and so I would have
these moments of frustration and then I, you know, would be like, okay, let's, let's step

708
00:55:29,932 --> 00:55:30,932
back from the frustration.

709
00:55:30,932 --> 00:55:35,620
Let's not let frust, let's not get wrapped up in the thought of frustration.

710
00:55:35,620 --> 00:55:44,132
And I think this is the process of creating that space and you're doing it like a micro
millimeter at a time, right?

711
00:55:44,473 --> 00:55:48,814
And then, and then it contracts and you're like, okay, now I'm comfortable doing this.

712
00:55:48,814 --> 00:56:03,968
And I think that it's, it's just so, I think one of the things that Victor Frankl said,
Victor Frankl is, you know, famously this psychologist who basically, you know, he watched

713
00:56:03,968 --> 00:56:04,440
his

714
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:09,513
most of his family be killed during the Holocaust.

715
00:56:10,934 --> 00:56:16,156
he said that there's a space between stimulus and response.

716
00:56:17,057 --> 00:56:19,929
In that space is where you find your freedom.

717
00:56:19,929 --> 00:56:23,641
that kind of, I think people had glimpsed that.

718
00:56:23,641 --> 00:56:29,384
So it was enough to kind of hop on the zeitgeist for the times, if you will.

719
00:56:29,384 --> 00:56:33,646
But I think now there's really a lot there and you're just creating that space.

720
00:56:33,668 --> 00:56:37,360
And I think that's, talked about agency, we talked about choice.

721
00:56:37,801 --> 00:56:43,555
and I think what happened was, is that in addiction, I don't know, I'm making an assertion
now.

722
00:56:43,555 --> 00:56:57,055
So you tell me your experience with it, but I think sometimes when we do the very,
aggressive regulations like alcohol is, know, we're, we're giving away the ability to

723
00:56:57,055 --> 00:56:59,817
choose whether we're going to be connected or not.

724
00:56:59,957 --> 00:57:00,898
You know,

725
00:57:00,900 --> 00:57:02,481
You're just saying, okay, yeah, just cut it.

726
00:57:02,481 --> 00:57:04,111
can't deal with it anymore.

727
00:57:04,292 --> 00:57:08,274
of saying, okay, I'm going to create some space here because that takes, that takes work.

728
00:57:08,274 --> 00:57:19,380
It takes effort, but if you do, you you, you smoke a cigarette, you do a line of code,
you, you know, have a drink shot or whatever you are, you know, you're saying with your

729
00:57:19,380 --> 00:57:22,822
action, okay, I'm just going to cut off that, that connection.

730
00:57:22,822 --> 00:57:29,265
And so I think really it is kind of a, it's kind of an exercise of how attached am I going
to be to what's happening?

731
00:57:30,818 --> 00:57:35,942
And that's where it's up to the individual because you certainly can do things.

732
00:57:35,942 --> 00:57:47,002
even my brother describes his experience, my brother who's, well, he describes his
experience of having morphine.

733
00:57:47,002 --> 00:57:56,190
He was experiencing severe pain and they gave him morphine and he was like, for me it was
like speed.

734
00:57:56,190 --> 00:57:57,611
I was like, okay, let's go.

735
00:57:57,643 --> 00:58:05,849
And he started getting up and pulling the IV and they're like, no, no, you can't, you're
like in tremendous pain, like, but it disconnected him from his body.

736
00:58:05,849 --> 00:58:06,209
Right.

737
00:58:06,209 --> 00:58:16,536
And so there's, there's a danger when you do that too, because, know, there's that, I've
heard a story about people who had like a broken leg and then they get up once they get

738
00:58:16,536 --> 00:58:21,070
morphine and their, you know, their leg is, then becoming a compound fracture because they
can't feel it.

739
00:58:21,070 --> 00:58:21,310
Right.

740
00:58:21,310 --> 00:58:25,963
So there's, there is, you know, it speaks to the utility of pain, so to

741
00:58:26,715 --> 00:58:30,208
So that's the danger in those quick kind of fixes, right?

742
00:58:30,208 --> 00:58:36,864
Because you don't understand what you're actually, you you don't understand that you're
just disconnecting.

743
00:58:37,505 --> 00:58:38,876
And I think a lot of things are like that.

744
00:58:38,876 --> 00:58:43,610
So there's, you know, in our lives, the stories that we tell ourselves play a part in
that.

745
00:58:45,272 --> 00:58:51,557
Interesting when I remember there was a show that was really big here in the US called Mad
Men.

746
00:58:52,378 --> 00:58:53,198
And

747
00:58:53,611 --> 00:59:02,195
had this experience where it's about this executive who's in the 1950s and 60s and he's
your quintessential like womanizer.

748
00:59:02,195 --> 00:59:13,049
You know, he's married and has kids, you know, all these other women on the side and he's,
you know, speaks down to everybody at work and just dominates everything.

749
00:59:13,049 --> 00:59:16,190
And it was this, you know, big powerful man.

750
00:59:16,190 --> 00:59:18,961
And there was one episode I remember I was watching.

751
00:59:18,961 --> 00:59:23,003
knew there was some kind of emotional resonance happening, but he talks about

752
00:59:23,029 --> 00:59:29,532
He's like, it was like an outro of an episode and he says, I'm, I feel like I can see my
life.

753
00:59:29,532 --> 00:59:30,843
It's right there.

754
00:59:30,843 --> 00:59:32,393
And I'm scratching and I'm pulling it.

755
00:59:32,393 --> 00:59:33,644
I'm trying to get into it.

756
00:59:33,644 --> 00:59:36,945
And no matter what I do, I can't get into it.

757
00:59:37,346 --> 00:59:49,091
And I remember I just kind of welled over an emotion, but he, you know, he had set his
life up to really cut himself off from his kind of self,

758
00:59:49,385 --> 00:59:53,537
And so there's all kinds of different barriers that we can put in front of ourselves.

759
00:59:54,419 --> 01:00:04,645
and those quick fixes, you know, if they're not done intentionally, if they're done
through, through drugs or kind of building up this story about power and prestige, you

760
01:00:04,645 --> 01:00:06,887
know, they cut us off from something.

761
01:00:07,568 --> 01:00:16,864
And, I think really, you know, the question that we're asking is, you know, what, yeah, it
is difficult, but it's gotta be kind of your own journey.

762
01:00:16,864 --> 01:00:18,194
And I really think,

763
01:00:19,285 --> 01:00:26,509
That's part of what I'm exploring now personally and what I'm interested in, you know, as
far as interacting with other people.

764
01:00:26,509 --> 01:00:31,972
You have given me an unbelievable amount of clarity and helped me join so many dots there.

765
01:00:33,413 --> 01:00:36,685
Because it is, it is, it is choice.

766
01:00:36,685 --> 01:00:40,457
It's that, as you said, it's that tiny little space that I would just fill with booze.

767
01:00:40,597 --> 01:00:42,708
So it was always, there was always one option.

768
01:00:42,708 --> 01:00:48,701
It was always react, drink, react, drink, numb, hide, shame, whatever.

769
01:00:49,002 --> 01:00:51,140
But when I took the drink away,

770
01:00:51,140 --> 01:00:59,436
I had that little horrible space where it was all this fear and stuff which I didn't
understand but none of it killed me.

771
01:00:59,436 --> 01:01:01,627
None of it was what this thing was saying.

772
01:01:01,627 --> 01:01:02,248
It will kill you.

773
01:01:02,248 --> 01:01:03,078
It'll destroy you.

774
01:01:03,078 --> 01:01:04,198
La la la.

775
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:11,064
And so I could then choose the drink or choose to go that is really frightening but it
didn't kill me.

776
01:01:11,064 --> 01:01:12,194
It didn't hurt me.

777
01:01:12,194 --> 01:01:14,285
It allowed me to be authentic.

778
01:01:14,586 --> 01:01:16,707
And Trigger is exactly the same.

779
01:01:16,707 --> 01:01:19,589
Trigger, thump, hate you, violence, whatever.

780
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:20,880
Trigger, I actually want

781
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:22,411
I want that reaction.

782
01:01:22,411 --> 01:01:23,292
I want that outcome.

783
01:01:23,292 --> 01:01:24,012
I want to be nice.

784
01:01:24,012 --> 01:01:26,794
I don't want to hurt my friend when they say something to upset me.

785
01:01:26,794 --> 01:01:28,046
I've got that choice.

786
01:01:28,046 --> 01:01:35,572
so what you've said, by stepping back, you're allowing yourself to see that choice before
you fly off the handle.

787
01:01:35,572 --> 01:01:37,503
And that's it.

788
01:01:37,503 --> 01:01:41,487
And you've really cleared something up for me there that makes so much sense.

789
01:01:41,487 --> 01:01:43,548
Yeah, be the observer, isn't it?

790
01:01:43,629 --> 01:01:44,800
Yeah, be the observer.

791
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:45,610
Yeah.

792
01:01:46,222 --> 01:01:47,292
Yeah, it really is.

793
01:01:47,292 --> 01:01:59,018
you know, I've been working, one of the things I noticed, you know, as I do work as a
coach is that, you know, people will have certain, we rely on things.

794
01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:06,761
So I think there's something else that you kind of revealed there, which I'm kind of
pointing to that we rely on things to give us energy or give us motivation.

795
01:02:06,942 --> 01:02:10,163
And sometimes it's fear.

796
01:02:11,340 --> 01:02:19,797
We're like, I need to have a place to live, so I'm going to get a job that pays X amount
so I can live.

797
01:02:19,797 --> 01:02:23,350
Sometimes that can show up as a fearful thing.

798
01:02:23,350 --> 01:02:27,713
Whereas you're like, whoa, all these things I don't want to deal with over here.

799
01:02:29,134 --> 01:02:34,259
That's giving you energy to run towards this quick solution.

800
01:02:34,259 --> 01:02:39,002
And so I think one of the things that this suggests is like, what do you...

801
01:02:39,985 --> 01:02:43,457
what would it be like to use something like positive for the fuel, right?

802
01:02:43,457 --> 01:02:54,265
Instead of it's like anxiety or stress or, you know, it's, it's weird to be like, if I'm
going to live from like joy at the center, things show up very differently, right?

803
01:02:54,265 --> 01:02:59,348
So you've got, you know, if you're worried about paying your bills, you know, you're going
to be like, I need more money.

804
01:02:59,348 --> 01:03:00,079
There's never enough money.

805
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:00,869
You're always focused on it.

806
01:03:00,869 --> 01:03:07,574
But if you're living from joy, then it's like, I don't have enough money to pay this bill
today or this, this month.

807
01:03:08,235 --> 01:03:09,055
But

808
01:03:09,343 --> 01:03:12,044
My kids are awesome.

809
01:03:12,044 --> 01:03:15,025
And I just, you I didn't think I'd live this long.

810
01:03:15,025 --> 01:03:21,368
And wow, there's the dust twirling and the, you know, that's like a place of joy.

811
01:03:21,368 --> 01:03:30,182
So it's like what, a lot of people, they step into that for a moment and it's so
disorienting because they're like, how do I, how do I, I only know how to work from

812
01:03:30,182 --> 01:03:31,763
anxiety or fear or whatever.

813
01:03:31,763 --> 01:03:36,545
Cause those are very powerful energy givers, if you will, you know?

814
01:03:36,545 --> 01:03:37,453
And so,

815
01:03:37,453 --> 01:03:41,194
You, we talked about agency, we talked about choice.

816
01:03:41,194 --> 01:03:50,867
And to me, that is, all about intentionality then at that point in time, you have to kind
of, you have to be really intentional about doing everything.

817
01:03:50,867 --> 01:04:00,379
Otherwise, you know, you just end up looking like you're, you know, stone, you know, like,
you know, swaying in the breeze, you know, because life is good.

818
01:04:00,379 --> 01:04:04,941
I'm coming from joy, but you've got to be able to have to intentionally take the action
there.

819
01:04:04,941 --> 01:04:05,701
So,

820
01:04:07,705 --> 01:04:12,206
I hope I did a good job of saying, pointing out how that connects here.

821
01:04:12,527 --> 01:04:21,999
But really, think that we, we, there is, when we think about our nervous system or fight
or flight, there is some things that come from that, that do a lot of good for us in life.

822
01:04:21,999 --> 01:04:26,090
They, they, they propel us to, you know, great heights.

823
01:04:26,430 --> 01:04:34,452
And I think where the balance comes in is choosing when you want to, that's, that's kind
of what I work with as far as in coaching is that people are like, okay, that's not

824
01:04:34,452 --> 01:04:35,573
serving me anymore.

825
01:04:35,573 --> 01:04:37,013
I needed a new fuel

826
01:04:37,253 --> 01:04:40,186
But so if it's joy, it's, you what is that?

827
01:04:40,186 --> 01:04:42,669
And then how do I navigate that?

828
01:04:42,669 --> 01:04:46,783
Because life is completely different when you switch fuel sources, right?

829
01:04:46,964 --> 01:04:51,569
And the tendency is to go back to fear or go back to the stress.

830
01:04:51,569 --> 01:04:56,204
And that's why a lot of us find ourselves in this cycle of like, life is good.

831
01:04:56,204 --> 01:04:56,874
life is bad.

832
01:04:56,874 --> 01:04:59,537
You know, so in my self

833
01:04:59,795 --> 01:05:00,555
Mm.

834
01:05:01,116 --> 01:05:01,896
Yep.

835
01:05:01,896 --> 01:05:02,547
I love that.

836
01:05:02,547 --> 01:05:09,851
And I think one of the reasons to validate why people fall back is because that's
familiar.

837
01:05:09,851 --> 01:05:15,604
I'm familiar with being hit by my husband because my father hit me when I was a child.

838
01:05:15,604 --> 01:05:20,647
I'm familiar with being downtrodden because my dad was assertive.

839
01:05:20,647 --> 01:05:23,869
I'm familiar with being walked over because of this.

840
01:05:23,869 --> 01:05:27,517
And that familiarity is really, you're safe.

841
01:05:27,517 --> 01:05:30,550
You might be unsafe with the external bit, you understand it.

842
01:05:30,550 --> 01:05:33,692
You know how to deal within that space.

843
01:05:33,692 --> 01:05:42,380
So it's not unreasonable to go back there because it's, as I said, you're safe, but you've
got no agency.

844
01:05:42,380 --> 01:05:52,107
You're not able to grow and nourish yourself and find better sources because that safety,
that anxiety.

845
01:05:52,148 --> 01:05:55,791
So how do you encourage people

846
01:05:55,825 --> 01:06:01,573
step out of that space because that's when the magic is when you you take that step into
that uncertainty.

847
01:06:02,523 --> 01:06:14,366
I think that there's just, you have to keep pointing back to, because it's funny when I
hear people, when I'm coaching people, I mean, really, you know, it's kind of structured

848
01:06:14,366 --> 01:06:17,667
in the way I coach people is I kind of, I don't bring anything of my own into it.

849
01:06:17,667 --> 01:06:25,359
I just kind of ask questions about curiosity and you know, it's really powerful when they
hear themselves say it.

850
01:06:25,699 --> 01:06:32,325
So, you know, I'll hear them saying over and over again, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, I just,
I'm good with anxiety and fear.

851
01:06:32,325 --> 01:06:36,377
That's what I want to do." And it's like, okay, but we're talking about how you don't like
anxiety and fear.

852
01:06:36,377 --> 01:06:39,068
And they're like, yeah, you're right.

853
01:06:39,068 --> 01:06:44,130
And I mean, that's kind of what it is, is that they have to experience that from every
different angle.

854
01:06:44,130 --> 01:06:47,631
So maybe in this domain, maybe this domain, maybe at this time of day.

855
01:06:47,671 --> 01:06:53,654
And you start realizing, and you really start kind of realizing that it is some work.

856
01:06:53,654 --> 01:07:01,293
And it's the reason why everybody isn't walking around joyful and really impacting the
world in the way they want to is because

857
01:07:01,293 --> 01:07:02,013
It is work.

858
01:07:02,013 --> 01:07:04,664
constantly have to be like, it's so much easy.

859
01:07:04,664 --> 01:07:13,276
know, if you take procrastination, for example, people, they know this people
procrastinate because when it's like, shit, I gotta get this done.

860
01:07:13,276 --> 01:07:14,277
There's energy there.

861
01:07:14,277 --> 01:07:17,397
Whereas it's like, I'm going to do a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow.

862
01:07:17,497 --> 01:07:22,869
It's kind of like, but the same thing with the way we live our lives.

863
01:07:22,869 --> 01:07:30,979
It's like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, see my boss as the enemy who's
constantly putting pressure on

864
01:07:30,979 --> 01:07:34,641
and not an ally, and then that's what motivates them.

865
01:07:34,641 --> 01:07:45,345
know, whereas if they're like, it's hard to kind of, then you're responsible and you're
intentional for everything, which is kind of, a lot of us have a hard time facing that.

866
01:07:45,345 --> 01:07:48,636
It's like a lot of, you know, responsibility can seem overwhelming.

867
01:07:48,636 --> 01:08:00,111
So really, it's just a constant revisiting of, okay, yeah, so we're kind of going back to
this idea of fear and, you know, anxiety.

868
01:08:00,647 --> 01:08:03,318
kind of being the energy that fuels our life.

869
01:08:03,578 --> 01:08:04,658
Okay.

870
01:08:06,279 --> 01:08:08,009
that's, that's not what you want to do anymore.

871
01:08:08,009 --> 01:08:13,381
You wanted to kind of have, you know, passion or impact that, that center, you know?

872
01:08:13,381 --> 01:08:15,361
And so, what's that look like?

873
01:08:15,361 --> 01:08:18,092
And then they have, they're forced to answer the question.

874
01:08:18,092 --> 01:08:19,922
So they have to think about it and like, wow.

875
01:08:19,922 --> 01:08:25,764
And they just start putting together the pieces of how they have to change because it
feels different.

876
01:08:25,764 --> 01:08:30,255
And like you said, it's so comfortable if you're used to anxiety or used to fear.

877
01:08:30,277 --> 01:08:32,818
You just, that's an instant energy source, right?

878
01:08:32,818 --> 01:08:34,718
You're just like, okay, here it is.

879
01:08:34,718 --> 01:08:35,829
Because we want, we're efficient.

880
01:08:35,829 --> 01:08:37,039
We want to be efficient.

881
01:08:37,039 --> 01:08:40,720
And so we just, we'll do those things that get the result.

882
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:48,262
Whereas, you know, what you and I have talked about and perhaps discovered is that being
like, Whoa, slow down.

883
01:08:48,662 --> 01:08:51,303
And what, what is, what is my intention here?

884
01:08:51,303 --> 01:08:59,745
And that's really putting that space between stimulus and response and starting to
discover what our balance is between

885
01:09:00,023 --> 01:09:09,003
our attachment to our body and the world and, and, yeah, all those things, it's, it's
about like intentionality.

886
01:09:09,003 --> 01:09:22,256
And so I think just revisiting that, yeah, I'm using the, I'm using the turbo energy
instead of the energy that I want to use, which is a slower burn, but a more consistent

887
01:09:22,256 --> 01:09:22,988
longer

888
01:09:22,988 --> 01:09:25,249
Fabulous.

889
01:09:25,249 --> 01:09:28,620
think you have given me an awful lot to think about.

890
01:09:28,620 --> 01:09:30,771
You've given my listeners an awful lot to think about.

891
01:09:30,771 --> 01:09:31,872
So thank you.

892
01:09:31,872 --> 01:09:35,112
Yeah, I think that was really, really interesting.

893
01:09:35,273 --> 01:09:35,653
It is.

894
01:09:35,653 --> 01:09:38,864
It's agency, taking responsibility for yourself.

895
01:09:38,864 --> 01:09:43,305
That horrible word responsibility and the even worse one, accountability.

896
01:09:43,305 --> 01:09:45,076
Yeah.

897
01:09:45,649 --> 01:09:47,153
Ryan, thank you.

898
01:09:47,153 --> 01:09:52,126
Where can people find out how to get a slow fix from you?

899
01:09:52,126 --> 01:09:55,323
Because I'm pretty sure you don't give them quick fixes.

900
01:09:56,047 --> 01:10:03,092
Yeah, well, of course there is my website, is RyanWattsLifeCoaching .com.

901
01:10:03,994 --> 01:10:13,641
there's a, if you're signing up for the email list there, you can get something I think is
a great kind of window into the things that we've talked about.

902
01:10:13,682 --> 01:10:18,726
And I kind of, there's lots of different tools, lots of different ways to access what
we've talked about.

903
01:10:18,726 --> 01:10:22,568
But I think emotional IQ is a good one.

904
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:24,290
That's Daniel Goleman.

905
01:10:24,290 --> 01:10:25,123
So there's kind

906
01:10:25,123 --> 01:10:26,864
five dimensions of that.

907
01:10:26,864 --> 01:10:30,387
And there always seems to be one that really rings true with somebody.

908
01:10:30,387 --> 01:10:33,068
instance, for me, it was self -regulation.

909
01:10:33,169 --> 01:10:36,081
And how am I regulating my highs and lows?

910
01:10:36,081 --> 01:10:37,692
What am I doing to do that?

911
01:10:37,692 --> 01:10:43,256
And how is that kind of impacting my success as I see it in my life?

912
01:10:43,256 --> 01:10:46,278
So you can get that at ryanwatzlifecoaching .com.

913
01:10:46,278 --> 01:10:51,481
I also have a podcast, which is the personal success podcast.

914
01:10:52,002 --> 01:10:54,323
So you can find that on any platform out

915
01:10:54,644 --> 01:10:58,687
And I'd love to hear from anybody regarding any questions that we talked about.

916
01:10:58,687 --> 01:11:00,484
We kind of scratched the surface on a lot of things.

917
01:11:00,484 --> 01:11:00,927
We did.

918
01:11:00,927 --> 01:11:02,314
And he's also on LinkedIn.

919
01:11:02,314 --> 01:11:04,946
I can vouch for that because that's where we met each other.

920
01:11:05,369 --> 01:11:05,710
Yeah.

921
01:11:05,710 --> 01:11:07,584
And the link to that is on my website.

922
01:11:07,584 --> 01:11:10,531
I'm not sure what the URL is off the top of my head.

923
01:11:10,531 --> 01:11:18,401
Now, Ryan, thank you and thank you for all that information that you have on your website
for people to tap into a bit more detail what we talked about.

924
01:11:18,401 --> 01:11:21,405
This really has been a fabulous conversation.

925
01:11:21,697 --> 01:11:23,760
Well, thank you.

926
01:11:23,801 --> 01:11:28,409
for a minute there, I forgot that we were having, we were recording a podcast and just was
talking with you.

927
01:11:28,409 --> 01:11:32,146
So think that's a, that's a sign of the quality of conversation that we're having.

928
01:11:32,146 --> 01:11:33,037
So thank

929
01:11:33,381 --> 01:11:34,474
No, that's really good.

930
01:11:34,474 --> 01:11:35,136
Thank you.

931
01:11:35,136 --> 01:11:36,300
And last question.

932
01:11:36,300 --> 01:11:42,165
What is your superpower that you got from making sense of your changes and your awakening?

933
01:11:45,330 --> 01:11:47,572
That's great question.

934
01:11:47,973 --> 01:11:50,316
That's a fantastic question.

935
01:11:50,316 --> 01:11:58,967
I think really what the answer to that question is, is that I've explained this to myself
in finding my...

936
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:01,290
What's the word?

937
01:12:01,290 --> 01:12:03,101
can't.

938
01:12:03,741 --> 01:12:05,061
The center point.

939
01:12:05,582 --> 01:12:07,502
This has to do with the Big Bang.

940
01:12:09,123 --> 01:12:10,743
What is the single point in the?

941
01:12:10,743 --> 01:12:12,033
I swear I use this term.

942
01:12:12,033 --> 01:12:13,684
The singularity, yes.

943
01:12:13,684 --> 01:12:15,534
Finding the singularity.

944
01:12:15,534 --> 01:12:27,017
I think what I have, the way I've experienced it is every day I kind of, I have mission
statements and all these value statements and things like that.

945
01:12:27,017 --> 01:12:29,238
But I take time.

946
01:12:29,238 --> 01:12:33,250
in the practice every day, my morning routine, meditation, yoga, whatever it takes.

947
01:12:33,250 --> 01:12:42,954
Sometimes it's just sitting there for a moment and I get back to that singularity, know,
and kind of leave the space open to just see where I'm being called, where I'm being

948
01:12:42,954 --> 01:12:43,674
pulled.

949
01:12:43,674 --> 01:12:57,830
And I think that that is really, that's a superpower for me because it keeps me kind of
connected and plugged into that, that energy, that creative energy of the universe, if you

950
01:12:57,830 --> 01:12:58,570
will.

951
01:12:59,665 --> 01:13:05,368
And it really is about opening up space to allow it to come in.

952
01:13:05,428 --> 01:13:12,043
And I call that the singularity because it then creates the big bang of how you show up in
the

953
01:13:12,043 --> 01:13:14,155
I absolutely love that.

954
01:13:14,417 --> 01:13:16,911
Look into the singularity and make that big bang.

955
01:13:16,911 --> 01:13:17,931
Brilliant.

956
01:13:18,353 --> 01:13:20,035
Ryan, thank you ever so much for today.

957
01:13:20,035 --> 01:13:21,237
I have enjoyed it.

958
01:13:21,237 --> 01:13:23,320
I'm glad you got up early this morning for this.

959
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,041
I really, really appreciate it.

960
01:13:25,506 --> 01:13:26,330
Yeah, absolutely.

961
01:13:26,330 --> 01:13:27,254
It was my pleasure.

962
01:13:27,254 --> 01:13:30,175
So I hope we get to talk again.

963
01:13:30,778 --> 01:13:31,480
We definitely will.

964
01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:33,065
We've just touched on an awful lot of things.

965
01:13:33,065 --> 01:13:34,567
So yeah, absolutely.

966
01:13:34,970 --> 01:13:35,461
Brilliant.

967
01:13:35,461 --> 01:13:36,493
Thank you very

968
01:13:37,107 --> 01:13:38,328
Thank you, Hamish.

969
01:13:39,466 --> 01:13:43,826
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.

970
01:13:43,826 --> 01:13:52,466
If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe
and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for

971
01:13:52,466 --> 01:13:53,406
their own journey.

972
01:13:53,406 --> 01:13:59,986
I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast
platform as well, that helps me reach more people.

973
01:13:59,986 --> 01:14:03,446
All the important links and information are in the show notes below.

974
01:14:03,446 --> 01:14:06,530
Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.