WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:04.772 --> 00:00:05.832 Colin: Welcome to Build and learn. 00:00:05.842 --> 00:00:06.702 My name is Colin. 00:00:06.779 --> 00:00:07.539 CJ: And I'm CJ. 00:00:07.549 --> 00:00:09.469 And today Colin and I are just catching up. 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:11.559 We're talking about an onsite that he went to. 00:00:11.909 --> 00:00:14.239 There was a whole bunch of events that happened this week. 00:00:14.339 --> 00:00:19.459 GitHub universe, open AI, the humane, crew launched their AI pin. 00:00:19.479 --> 00:00:21.589 So we'll get into details about all that. 00:00:22.759 --> 00:00:24.219 Yeah, let's talk about the on site. 00:00:24.219 --> 00:00:27.289 where is HQ, or like, where is your team based? 00:00:27.289 --> 00:00:30.769 Colin: yeah, so the team is spread out all over, and we 00:00:30.769 --> 00:00:32.169 have an office in San Francisco. 00:00:32.169 --> 00:00:33.299 So the onsite was there. 00:00:34.054 --> 00:00:35.904 And, just, it was just our team. 00:00:35.914 --> 00:00:42.684 So the kind of apps, spots, APIs, public facing stuff, DevRel, that kind of thing. 00:00:42.694 --> 00:00:45.604 So yeah, it was good to get the crew together. 00:00:45.604 --> 00:00:48.694 And even though we're always connecting online. 00:00:49.554 --> 00:00:52.394 Get through some stuff that just seems to be easier when you're in person. 00:00:53.024 --> 00:00:56.364 and then just a bunch of, fun kind of team bonding stuff. 00:00:56.364 --> 00:00:59.644 We've had, I think one or two people joined since the 00:00:59.644 --> 00:01:00.744 last time we got together. 00:01:00.744 --> 00:01:03.264 I was not the new person this time, which was nice too. 00:01:03.794 --> 00:01:07.104 CJ: Do they always tend to have the on sites, like at the same 00:01:07.104 --> 00:01:10.714 place, or do you get to go travel other places for on sites, or? 00:01:11.209 --> 00:01:14.709 Colin: Yeah, there was a big push to try to do it elsewhere this time, but 00:01:14.739 --> 00:01:20.059 we have an office and they don't have to pay extra to book like a conference. 00:01:20.729 --> 00:01:25.949 room and figure out how to get a bunch of people to a place that, doesn't have 00:01:25.949 --> 00:01:31.339 as much infrastructure for like we have facilities and stuff to do food and 00:01:31.339 --> 00:01:35.339 conference rooms and all the tech and stuff that we need to, cause we still 00:01:35.349 --> 00:01:39.499 offer the onsite virtually for people who can't make it out for whatever reason, 00:01:39.499 --> 00:01:41.469 if it was just bad week or something. 00:01:41.469 --> 00:01:43.879 so we still like have discord up with. 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.599 People joining virtually, and then having the team in place. 00:01:47.649 --> 00:01:51.999 so yeah, this was more like strategy and focused on more work 00:01:52.029 --> 00:01:55.169 on this onsite than like just team bonding and stuff like that. 00:01:55.259 --> 00:01:55.509 But 00:01:55.654 --> 00:01:56.134 CJ: Got it. 00:01:56.714 --> 00:02:01.937 I feel like some on sites where you focus on work a ton, you come 00:02:01.937 --> 00:02:05.237 away and you're just like, okay, we could have maybe done that remotely. 00:02:05.537 --> 00:02:08.807 and then other onsites where you're doing a lot of team bonding, it feels really 00:02:08.807 --> 00:02:15.297 good to just come away feeling connected and rejuvenated and like energized and, I 00:02:15.297 --> 00:02:21.727 think ideally you get a mix of both, but, I've definitely been to some offsites, 00:02:21.797 --> 00:02:23.757 at Stripe where it felt awesome, right? 00:02:23.757 --> 00:02:28.197 You come away feeling super connected and, and then I've also had some 00:02:28.197 --> 00:02:30.687 onsites where it's oh, we were planning on getting like a lot done. 00:02:31.042 --> 00:02:36.142 At this and yeah, maybe things weren't as organized or whatever, but, it's 00:02:36.142 --> 00:02:37.582 hard to strike that balance for sure. 00:02:37.687 --> 00:02:40.147 Colin: I think there's different kinds of work, so I think things where 00:02:40.147 --> 00:02:43.527 you're getting people in a room to brainstorm plan for future quarters, 00:02:43.527 --> 00:02:45.157 future, things like that are good. 00:02:45.157 --> 00:02:49.277 I wouldn't say that we'd all want to be in a room, coding necessarily. 00:02:49.377 --> 00:02:51.577 We can do that back at home. 00:02:52.117 --> 00:02:55.907 But yeah, whatever is added from FaceTime, just being able to hang out 00:02:55.907 --> 00:02:58.977 and some people show up wanting to talk about things that, you know, you 00:02:58.977 --> 00:03:02.527 just don't get to, you don't have the hallway chatter when you're online. 00:03:03.017 --> 00:03:06.472 and I know a lot of companies that don't have any offices, they, Do move their 00:03:06.482 --> 00:03:10.352 onsites around the world, especially depending on how, global they are. 00:03:10.352 --> 00:03:13.442 So you've got like onsites in Portugal and things. 00:03:13.962 --> 00:03:15.212 we had that with orbit. 00:03:15.532 --> 00:03:18.982 That was some work, some brainstorming, like hearing from the team, like 00:03:18.982 --> 00:03:20.202 what do you think we're building? 00:03:20.252 --> 00:03:20.902 Being able to. 00:03:21.322 --> 00:03:24.332 work with leadership to get a sense of this is what we think we're building. 00:03:24.392 --> 00:03:26.522 Is this aligned with what the team thinks we're building? 00:03:27.012 --> 00:03:32.052 this is maybe, you know, a chance to, to whiteboard, which as much as I love 00:03:32.062 --> 00:03:36.882 FigJam, it's not a direct replacement for being in the room for some of that stuff. 00:03:36.882 --> 00:03:39.452 And then we had a crochet time. 00:03:39.452 --> 00:03:43.592 We all had these little woobles, like crocheting, kits that 00:03:43.592 --> 00:03:44.902 we got to pick, and just. 00:03:46.377 --> 00:03:48.547 and just bonding time, which it was good. 00:03:48.807 --> 00:03:51.357 There were a bunch of people that I did not know that I just don't interact 00:03:51.357 --> 00:03:53.387 with that are on our activities team. 00:03:53.387 --> 00:03:57.567 So in discord, there's these activities like games and, there's actually 00:03:57.577 --> 00:04:01.327 like a whiteboard type activity in their, watch together, just more 00:04:01.327 --> 00:04:03.407 like a game studio inside of discord. 00:04:03.407 --> 00:04:06.037 So that team I hadn't worked with very much. 00:04:06.702 --> 00:04:08.932 So it was good to, to do that. 00:04:08.932 --> 00:04:10.322 And, we had hot pot. 00:04:10.502 --> 00:04:15.192 And so like myself and the vegetarians were on the other end, which were a bunch 00:04:15.192 --> 00:04:19.442 of people I hadn't met before because, it was like, this is the vegetarian hot pot 00:04:19.452 --> 00:04:21.952 and this is the non vegetarian section. 00:04:21.952 --> 00:04:23.152 So it was fun. 00:04:23.827 --> 00:04:24.337 CJ: Awesome. 00:04:25.017 --> 00:04:26.807 Yeah, there, there was a talk. 00:04:26.817 --> 00:04:29.117 It's interesting that you mentioned crochet because there was a talk 00:04:29.117 --> 00:04:33.977 at RubyConf 2022, by Tori, and we can link to it, but it was about 00:04:33.987 --> 00:04:38.417 how crochet and code, are very similar, and it was an awesome talk. 00:04:38.417 --> 00:04:39.237 I really enjoyed it. 00:04:39.707 --> 00:04:44.887 yeah, and also like just generally, I feel like all of those fabric, I 00:04:44.887 --> 00:04:48.437 don't know, like fabric arts remind me so much of coding just, there's just, 00:04:48.667 --> 00:04:52.497 instructions that you follow and there's patterns that you can follow, or you can 00:04:52.537 --> 00:04:54.227 be creative and make whatever you want. 00:04:54.247 --> 00:04:57.607 And there's just, there's like fundamental, pieces of the puzzle 00:04:57.607 --> 00:05:01.647 that you can apply in any, combine in different ways to make different things. 00:05:01.657 --> 00:05:01.917 fun. 00:05:03.012 --> 00:05:07.692 Colin: I've been to a conference, I think it was NodeConf, where someone found 00:05:07.692 --> 00:05:13.382 a, a knitting machine that they could reprogram and they were talking about a 00:05:13.382 --> 00:05:16.242 lot of the things that you're, I'll try to find it and put it in the show notes, 00:05:16.242 --> 00:05:21.662 but, um, basically making like a 3D printer for a knitting machine, right? 00:05:21.662 --> 00:05:26.622 So like how do you translate the image into something that's a little bit more 00:05:26.642 --> 00:05:32.622 8 bit and then into The stitches and then actually having it print using Arduino and 00:05:32.692 --> 00:05:37.302 Node or whatever Language and yeah, like you gotta be really passionate about that. 00:05:37.782 --> 00:05:38.942 I'll find it and put it in the show notes 00:05:40.017 --> 00:05:40.957 CJ: Yeah, super cool. 00:05:40.957 --> 00:05:45.937 When, um, I think when people bring their passions , into tech. 00:05:46.647 --> 00:05:48.997 Colin: Yeah, I mean, you're going to spend more time figuring it out 00:05:49.047 --> 00:05:50.027 because you care about it, right? 00:05:50.027 --> 00:05:54.007 It's like you want to figure out how do I can I'm sure they 00:05:54.007 --> 00:05:55.617 enjoy crocheting by hand too 00:05:56.050 --> 00:06:01.350 CJ: So did you see the launch of the humane AI pin thing that just came out? 00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:05.050 Colin: you are the second person to have sent me a link to this and I have 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:10.510 I had not clicked on it yet But I had seen Rumors of this a few weeks ago 00:06:10.911 --> 00:06:11.271 CJ: Yeah. 00:06:11.551 --> 00:06:14.721 Similarly, I heard a bunch of waves and I was like, AI pin, 00:06:14.731 --> 00:06:15.771 what the heck is this thing? 00:06:15.901 --> 00:06:20.091 Or initially, I think when I first heard about it, I think the way that it was 00:06:20.091 --> 00:06:22.931 explained to me was that it was going to be like a necklace, like a medallion 00:06:22.961 --> 00:06:25.721 that you wear and it's always watching. 00:06:25.991 --> 00:06:29.881 But, yeah, if you go head over and watch the kind of like launch video, it's 00:06:29.881 --> 00:06:33.111 more like a lapel pin that you snap on. 00:06:33.646 --> 00:06:36.286 Colin: I think those might be two different products. 00:06:36.611 --> 00:06:37.321 CJ: Oh, really? 00:06:37.526 --> 00:06:39.496 Colin: Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. 00:06:39.496 --> 00:06:41.716 And it's like a, it's like a necklace medallion. 00:06:41.716 --> 00:06:45.086 It's they're trying to also be a little bit jewelry like, and it's 00:06:45.086 --> 00:06:49.876 like auto transcribing conversations that you have and things like that, 00:06:49.876 --> 00:06:53.946 which I think I mentioned to you makes me want to move to a forest. 00:06:55.576 --> 00:06:57.626 but this could be a successor to it. 00:06:57.626 --> 00:06:59.106 It could be a competitor to it. 00:06:59.476 --> 00:07:03.586 and it, I appreciate their domain name, even though it's 00:07:03.586 --> 00:07:04.856 hard to explain to people. 00:07:04.856 --> 00:07:10.046 It's H U dot M A dot N E, we'll put a link in the show notes, but their website 00:07:10.216 --> 00:07:12.546 is very interactive, very interesting. 00:07:12.951 --> 00:07:16.751 So for those people listening at home, what is the AI pen? 00:07:17.516 --> 00:07:17.816 CJ: yeah. 00:07:17.816 --> 00:07:23.216 So it's this lapel pin that has a camera, microphone, speaker, and 00:07:23.226 --> 00:07:25.996 like laser projector thing built in. 00:07:26.406 --> 00:07:29.846 it has, access to the LTE network. 00:07:30.281 --> 00:07:32.581 And they have a partnership, I think, with T Mobile. 00:07:33.271 --> 00:07:39.851 the company was founded by a bunch of ex Apple folks that worked on iPhone and they 00:07:39.861 --> 00:07:41.931 are partnered really closely with open AI. 00:07:42.791 --> 00:07:50.421 So it is like a new type of consumer device that is all AI driven. 00:07:50.941 --> 00:07:53.541 And, I don't know, there's a few different interfaces, so like it can 00:07:53.541 --> 00:07:58.091 talk to you obviously, but you can also hold out your hand and it will project. 00:07:58.106 --> 00:08:02.986 Something in, just one color, basically, onto your hand, and then you can, move 00:08:02.986 --> 00:08:08.056 your hand around or use gestures to control it um, and a lot of it seems like 00:08:08.056 --> 00:08:12.546 it's voice activated, so you can say, take a picture right now, or, uh, some 00:08:12.546 --> 00:08:16.676 of the features that were like most mind blowing was like, in the demo, he holds 00:08:16.676 --> 00:08:20.836 out a handful of almonds and he says how much protein is in this or something. 00:08:21.276 --> 00:08:23.126 And it's Oh, there's 15 grams of protein. 00:08:23.306 --> 00:08:24.516 And then he says, I'm going to eat it. 00:08:24.516 --> 00:08:25.306 And then he just eats it. 00:08:25.316 --> 00:08:28.976 I'm like, this is what I've been wanting for like the, my fitness pal, 00:08:29.376 --> 00:08:31.116 like it's like super charged, right? 00:08:31.116 --> 00:08:33.586 Fitness pal thing, just watch all the stuff that goes in my mouth 00:08:33.596 --> 00:08:35.166 Colin: Just watch my mouth until 00:08:35.591 --> 00:08:36.511 CJ: Yeah, exactly. 00:08:37.031 --> 00:08:37.711 Exactly. 00:08:37.781 --> 00:08:38.911 Colin: it bothers you like CJ. 00:08:38.911 --> 00:08:40.271 Are you eating something right now? 00:08:40.576 --> 00:08:41.526 CJ: yeah, exactly. 00:08:41.536 --> 00:08:43.466 It's Oh, you shouldn't put that in your mouth. 00:08:43.486 --> 00:08:45.186 You're over your calorie limit for the day. 00:08:45.236 --> 00:08:46.836 Colin: yeah, I didn't get a chance to watch the whole 00:08:46.846 --> 00:08:51.116 video yet, but I don't know. 00:08:51.236 --> 00:08:55.656 I just, I wonder who this is for a little bit because I have a drawer 00:08:56.146 --> 00:09:02.656 of devices like this from, 10 years ago, they're not anything like this. 00:09:02.686 --> 00:09:07.106 I guess we talked about the Ray Bans AI glasses from Meta. 00:09:07.676 --> 00:09:12.816 I have this brain sensing headband, this arm gesture, finger sensing. 00:09:13.286 --> 00:09:16.346 Like I have literally a drawer of tech that's I think some of them still might 00:09:16.346 --> 00:09:18.196 be in business, but barely supported. 00:09:18.826 --> 00:09:23.696 I think a lot of it was from the first VR wave of where you're wanting to get input. 00:09:23.716 --> 00:09:27.866 And I think AI is probably making these a little bit more realistic. 00:09:27.916 --> 00:09:29.936 those were inputs, but they weren't smart. 00:09:30.016 --> 00:09:35.676 They required a lot of apps and tech built around them to even be useful. 00:09:35.676 --> 00:09:38.636 when the headband company went out of business, it's now I have nothing to do. 00:09:38.656 --> 00:09:42.246 Like it's a piece of plastic and a bunch of chips that I can't use. 00:09:42.296 --> 00:09:46.716 what makes this something that like, do you think people want this 00:09:47.146 --> 00:09:51.306 CJ: I think that something that I was talking to Nicole about was how 00:09:51.316 --> 00:09:55.886 we're already struggling with our kids sort of addiction to screens, right? 00:09:55.886 --> 00:09:57.396 Like they're always want to be on screens. 00:09:57.426 --> 00:09:58.916 I definitely am addicted to it. 00:09:58.926 --> 00:10:03.076 I'm like, Oh, there's, you know, a 10 second break here between when my 00:10:03.076 --> 00:10:07.126 coffee water is heating up and when, the, whatever is going to be done. 00:10:07.146 --> 00:10:11.046 Let me pull up my phone and get a few quick hits in of tick tock or whatever. 00:10:11.056 --> 00:10:12.606 Like it is super, super addictive. 00:10:13.078 --> 00:10:17.498 Because this thing does not have a screen, I feel like it almost does give you back 00:10:17.498 --> 00:10:20.338 a little bit of your humanity in a way. 00:10:20.438 --> 00:10:24.548 that said, I don't know if it'll be enough to replace a phone. 00:10:25.248 --> 00:10:29.528 And so I think, I don't know if, it has the potential to replace 00:10:29.528 --> 00:10:32.648 a phone for many people, but for. 00:10:33.343 --> 00:10:38.433 Us who are on it all the time, using it for work, using it for, lots 00:10:38.433 --> 00:10:40.033 and lots of different use cases. 00:10:40.163 --> 00:10:45.523 I think it's going to take a while for the features of something like a pen to 00:10:45.523 --> 00:10:47.623 catch up with the utility of a phone. 00:10:47.673 --> 00:10:49.523 they had a few apps out of the gate. 00:10:49.573 --> 00:10:53.073 I can't remember, it's not Spotify, but they're partnered with some music. 00:10:53.603 --> 00:10:53.833 Yeah. 00:10:53.833 --> 00:10:54.433 With title. 00:10:54.593 --> 00:10:59.063 and they're with, just like a handful of companies that will have. 00:10:59.068 --> 00:10:59.918 Colin: and slack. 00:11:00.233 --> 00:11:02.393 CJ: Yeah, they're going to have stuff out of the gate, 00:11:02.918 --> 00:11:06.068 Colin: I don't want my slack notifications following me everywhere I go. 00:11:06.068 --> 00:11:07.348 CJ: the one, I did like that. 00:11:07.348 --> 00:11:10.178 He was like, Oh, summarize my day or what do I need to attend to? 00:11:10.208 --> 00:11:12.608 And then it like looks at all your inbound stuff and figures 00:11:12.608 --> 00:11:14.488 out how to give you a breakdown. 00:11:14.508 --> 00:11:15.878 It's like having a secretary maybe 00:11:16.203 --> 00:11:16.663 Colin: Yeah. 00:11:16.803 --> 00:11:19.133 imagine, I'm sure it knows where you are. 00:11:19.143 --> 00:11:23.223 It's like you have a meeting in an hour across town and 00:11:23.223 --> 00:11:24.343 you're not anywhere near it. 00:11:24.588 --> 00:11:26.148 And you might not even remember. 00:11:26.618 --> 00:11:27.588 You're eating almonds. 00:11:27.588 --> 00:11:29.538 We can see that you're eating almonds and you're not. 00:11:31.308 --> 00:11:34.248 You might need to get to this meeting like, hey, by the way, 00:11:34.248 --> 00:11:35.488 you have that lunch with somebody. 00:11:35.488 --> 00:11:37.998 there's things like that don't always end up on my calendar. 00:11:37.998 --> 00:11:41.478 I guess if it doesn't know about it, it won't be able to tell you about it. 00:11:41.498 --> 00:11:45.328 But being able to have some context around the world. 00:11:45.328 --> 00:11:48.328 your phone can do a lot of that today, but like you're right, you're 00:11:48.328 --> 00:11:52.618 pulling out your phone and how many notifications are we already getting? 00:11:53.218 --> 00:11:55.788 I think the thing that I think most people are concerned by is the 00:11:56.348 --> 00:12:00.298 privacy side of this and I know that they have a light that's the trust 00:12:00.298 --> 00:12:05.868 indicator but like I don't think I feel better having a light on when 00:12:05.868 --> 00:12:09.938 I just don't know what conversations are being recorded and which ones are. 00:12:10.298 --> 00:12:10.758 CJ: totally. 00:12:10.848 --> 00:12:11.118 Yeah. 00:12:11.118 --> 00:12:14.998 It's going to be like a giant privacy nightmare. 00:12:15.038 --> 00:12:19.328 And they, like when in the demo, he says trust like 10 times, because I'm sure 00:12:19.328 --> 00:12:20.888 like, that's a lot of people's concern. 00:12:21.358 --> 00:12:26.278 And yeah, it's definitely something where you're walking around with a camera 00:12:26.278 --> 00:12:31.538 that's watching everything that you see and definitely not everything that I see. 00:12:31.538 --> 00:12:34.638 I want available for the internet to know about. 00:12:34.728 --> 00:12:36.838 Colin: I'd say between that and. 00:12:37.653 --> 00:12:38.583 the glasses. 00:12:38.613 --> 00:12:41.873 we already have microphones and cameras all over the place, right? 00:12:41.873 --> 00:12:46.723 Like on one bus, if every person has a phone, there's that many phone, there's 00:12:46.723 --> 00:12:51.273 that many cameras and at least that many speakers and microphones in the room. 00:12:51.273 --> 00:12:55.563 So it's not necessarily new, but it's more obvious when someone 00:12:55.563 --> 00:12:57.453 holds their phone up to your face. 00:12:57.463 --> 00:13:03.433 CJ: it's, it reminds me a lot of like police body cam footage, like police, 00:13:03.603 --> 00:13:08.723 whether you agree or not with how the footage is used, like someone who's on 00:13:08.733 --> 00:13:14.543 duty might behave differently because they have a little big brother accountability 00:13:14.543 --> 00:13:18.743 situation going on all the time, and so yeah, it might change your behavior. 00:13:19.913 --> 00:13:20.523 Colin: interesting. 00:13:20.823 --> 00:13:25.503 Yeah, I'll have to watch this full video and get, I'm keen to see what 00:13:25.503 --> 00:13:27.633 the internet is reacting to this. 00:13:28.503 --> 00:13:30.633 I'm curious what people listening to this are thinking. 00:13:30.928 --> 00:13:32.008 CJ: Yeah, it was funny too. 00:13:32.028 --> 00:13:36.388 In the, in the presentation, he said something like, he's like very 00:13:36.388 --> 00:13:38.018 calm and, almost like monotone. 00:13:38.018 --> 00:13:41.348 He's tell Colin that I'll be over for dinner. 00:13:41.778 --> 00:13:45.478 And then it says okay, I've, constructed a text message to Colin telling 00:13:45.478 --> 00:13:46.588 him that you'll be over for dinner. 00:13:47.208 --> 00:13:50.548 And then he's now make it sound more excited. 00:13:51.278 --> 00:13:55.228 Colin: I was going to say the one, the little bit of the video I did watch, 00:13:55.278 --> 00:13:58.718 I was a little surprised that he was, he's probably one of the founders, 00:13:58.918 --> 00:13:59.908 CJ: he must be, the 00:14:00.178 --> 00:14:01.768 Colin: not a lot of stage presence there. 00:14:02.418 --> 00:14:02.788 CJ: Yeah. 00:14:03.958 --> 00:14:05.368 But it was like, Oh, okay. 00:14:05.368 --> 00:14:10.238 So this is a cool use case that I think will flow to all messages. 00:14:10.248 --> 00:14:13.008 Eventually it's tell so and so something and then. 00:14:13.543 --> 00:14:16.363 It reads off the message and then you just say make it sound more fun or make 00:14:16.363 --> 00:14:20.423 it sound more plucky or, convey that I care about my parent this way or that way, 00:14:20.423 --> 00:14:26.053 or I don't know, like just, using GPT to rewrite content, uh, in real time, based 00:14:26.053 --> 00:14:28.013 on suggestions instead of having to edit, 00:14:28.083 --> 00:14:30.633 Colin: this feels more like the Tony Stark, right? 00:14:30.753 --> 00:14:34.923 Dream, the Jarvis, the Friday that you have with you and 00:14:34.923 --> 00:14:35.943 they have their own voice. 00:14:35.943 --> 00:14:41.893 Cause I, there's some friends that I have who are like very, they, 00:14:41.993 --> 00:14:44.933 if they're texting more than one or two texts back and forth, they 00:14:44.933 --> 00:14:48.903 switched to voice messages, which I never reached for voicemail. 00:14:48.983 --> 00:14:52.953 It's just like very foreign to me, but I guess, I don't know, kids, do 00:14:52.953 --> 00:14:55.853 kids these days prefer the like voice? 00:14:56.083 --> 00:14:57.863 Memos that you're sending back and forth? 00:14:58.018 --> 00:15:02.228 CJ: I think it's a cultural thing based on like ages, but I think 00:15:02.228 --> 00:15:05.458 it's also a cultural thing depending on what language you speak. 00:15:05.858 --> 00:15:10.518 Like I've definitely noticed certain culture, like where 00:15:10.518 --> 00:15:11.548 it's really hard to type. 00:15:11.568 --> 00:15:15.318 I don't know if it's some sort of some languages where you have to search 00:15:15.328 --> 00:15:19.528 like a bajillion characters to find the one thing that you're trying to say. 00:15:19.718 --> 00:15:23.398 I think in some cases, like it's just way more ergonomic to just say what you mean. 00:15:25.118 --> 00:15:26.108 So I don't know. 00:15:26.118 --> 00:15:26.558 We'll see. 00:15:26.598 --> 00:15:27.298 We'll see how it goes. 00:15:27.298 --> 00:15:31.058 But I, yeah, I have not picked up that habit yet, but we do have a 00:15:31.058 --> 00:15:35.358 lot of friends who we communicate with over Marco Polo, which is just 00:15:35.358 --> 00:15:37.028 like the video version of that. 00:15:37.288 --> 00:15:38.438 And so yeah, I don't know. 00:15:38.438 --> 00:15:44.518 It's like FaceTime, like messages instead of FaceTime, like a live synchronous call. 00:15:44.928 --> 00:15:47.278 Colin: Yeah, it's like ZipMessage. 00:15:47.833 --> 00:15:49.653 CJ: I haven't used ZipMesh, is that, 00:15:49.858 --> 00:15:52.508 Colin: ZipMessage has been renamed since... 00:15:53.528 --> 00:15:56.488 It's something else now, but yeah. 00:15:57.668 --> 00:15:59.198 It's called ClarityFlow now. 00:15:59.603 --> 00:16:01.063 CJ: Ah, okay. 00:16:01.783 --> 00:16:02.053 Colin: cool. 00:16:02.053 --> 00:16:03.033 what else came out this week? 00:16:03.043 --> 00:16:04.123 A lot of AI stuff. 00:16:04.123 --> 00:16:06.713 So we talked about human AI, the AI pen, 00:16:07.368 --> 00:16:07.668 CJ: Yep. 00:16:07.923 --> 00:16:10.123 Colin: there was also the OpenAI announcements. 00:16:10.483 --> 00:16:15.063 And GitHub Universe was like almost an extension of OpenAI's 00:16:15.503 --> 00:16:18.273 conference, like more AI stuff. 00:16:18.528 --> 00:16:19.198 CJ: exactly. 00:16:19.208 --> 00:16:19.438 Yeah. 00:16:19.438 --> 00:16:21.938 Satya Nadella just making the rounds. 00:16:22.148 --> 00:16:24.798 He's like on a podcast circuit, but instead of podcasts, it's 00:16:24.798 --> 00:16:31.011 like keynote speeches for GitHub universe and OpenAI DevDay I watched 00:16:31.031 --> 00:16:33.251 the keynote for OpenAI DevDay. 00:16:33.281 --> 00:16:36.741 I watched some of the GitHub universe one, and it seemed a lot like 00:16:36.811 --> 00:16:38.631 we're adding Copilot to everything. 00:16:38.831 --> 00:16:41.861 And not too much more depth than that. 00:16:41.901 --> 00:16:46.511 And so I expect that we'll see new buttons and things all over the place. 00:16:46.591 --> 00:16:51.491 speaking of it, Descript has like a new ask AI thing that is also powered 00:16:51.491 --> 00:16:54.861 by open AI, where it's just give me show notes for this episode, or think 00:16:54.861 --> 00:16:59.241 of a title for this episode, or add chapter markers for this episode. 00:16:59.241 --> 00:17:03.761 And it will just edit like your, composition in line, which is pretty sick. 00:17:04.531 --> 00:17:05.011 But. 00:17:05.481 --> 00:17:09.151 Yeah, OpenAI, the OpenAI Dev Day announcements, I think were pretty 00:17:09.151 --> 00:17:16.746 cool, mostly because the 32 K context, restriction for GPT four was pretty 00:17:16.746 --> 00:17:23.206 limiting for a lot of cases and quad two, which is like the anthropics 00:17:23.456 --> 00:17:27.106 version of GPT four has been out for a long time and I think they have a 00:17:27.106 --> 00:17:30.086 hundred K context and so you can just. 00:17:30.496 --> 00:17:35.566 Do so much more with a hundred K tokens than you can with 32 K. 00:17:35.566 --> 00:17:37.476 And so that was a big part of it. 00:17:38.126 --> 00:17:42.956 And then they also announced, GPTs and assistance and a couple other things. 00:17:43.456 --> 00:17:45.816 they're also decreasing pricing across a bunch of stuff. 00:17:46.986 --> 00:17:48.416 I, yeah. 00:17:48.416 --> 00:17:53.736 So I went in and I played with creating assistance, which, shout out to. 00:17:54.041 --> 00:17:58.851 the folks working on the Ruby open AI gem, because someone had a PR up like 00:17:58.871 --> 00:18:03.001 within a few hours and it's not merged or it wasn't merged when I was going 00:18:03.001 --> 00:18:06.011 to play with it, but I was just like, Oh, we'll just use their fork and start 00:18:06.011 --> 00:18:07.451 playing with the stuff that's there. 00:18:07.626 --> 00:18:08.606 Colin: Use bleeding edge. 00:18:08.606 --> 00:18:08.706 Yeah. 00:18:08.861 --> 00:18:09.411 CJ: Yeah. 00:18:09.581 --> 00:18:15.961 And there, I had a couple of different takeaways, like I thought that the way 00:18:15.961 --> 00:18:21.311 that you created messages and completion or like chat messages and completions 00:18:21.321 --> 00:18:24.961 before through the API was pretty simple and like easy to understand. 00:18:24.961 --> 00:18:28.751 It's just Oh, you pass a chat and here's all the messages for the chat. 00:18:28.781 --> 00:18:29.661 And then it gives you back. 00:18:29.701 --> 00:18:32.141 This is the next message that's in the result. 00:18:32.141 --> 00:18:33.701 And then you can use that however you want. 00:18:34.276 --> 00:18:39.566 Whereas now with assistance, there are like, there's assistance and then 00:18:39.576 --> 00:18:42.006 each assistant can have like threads. 00:18:42.036 --> 00:18:45.556 And then within those threads, you can have runs in those runs might 00:18:45.606 --> 00:18:49.806 do like some function calling or some retrieval or some other stuff. 00:18:50.296 --> 00:18:56.016 And the APIs are definitely still pretty primitive and there's a lot of APIs. 00:18:56.016 --> 00:18:59.386 So like you're calling a whole bunch of things just to 00:18:59.386 --> 00:19:00.886 make one small thing happen. 00:19:00.896 --> 00:19:03.786 It's If you haven't already got to create your assistant, that's one API call. 00:19:03.826 --> 00:19:05.656 Then you got to create a thread and that's an API call. 00:19:05.656 --> 00:19:07.866 And then you got to add messages to the thread. 00:19:07.866 --> 00:19:12.646 And then you got to create a run, which is like a run on a thread with a message. 00:19:12.676 --> 00:19:14.826 And then that will kick off some background tasks that 00:19:15.606 --> 00:19:18.016 may need some input from you. 00:19:18.016 --> 00:19:21.636 So it's definitely, there's like a lot more to it now. 00:19:22.666 --> 00:19:23.026 so 00:19:23.506 --> 00:19:25.886 Colin: That's a lot of the stuff that people were building, right? 00:19:25.886 --> 00:19:30.076 Like you had to manage all those contexts and then do the run yourself. 00:19:30.076 --> 00:19:32.116 And now we're like, okay, let's give everything to 00:19:32.116 --> 00:19:34.686 them and get the full window. 00:19:35.096 --> 00:19:35.936 CJ: Exactly. 00:19:35.986 --> 00:19:36.446 Yes. 00:19:36.466 --> 00:19:41.026 Especially the retrieval part where that was, I think I put up a video like nine 00:19:41.026 --> 00:19:44.236 months ago with pine cone and I just, I couldn't get it working as expected. 00:19:44.236 --> 00:19:45.966 I didn't understand a bunch of pieces of it. 00:19:45.966 --> 00:19:50.296 And so having open AI, just take care of it is going to be awesome. 00:19:50.496 --> 00:19:57.616 And having them deal with, the window buffering, they will figure out how to 00:19:57.946 --> 00:20:02.256 remove the old messages or compress them or whatever, so that you can keep the 00:20:02.256 --> 00:20:04.196 same sort of context and information. 00:20:04.246 --> 00:20:07.746 so yeah, a lot of those really tricky bits are going away. 00:20:08.296 --> 00:20:14.316 Uh, they also came out with GPT 4v, which is like the vision tool that's built in. 00:20:14.356 --> 00:20:15.866 And I think that's going to be pretty sick. 00:20:15.976 --> 00:20:22.431 So you can give it images and ask about, uh, InLine, 00:20:24.066 --> 00:20:28.196 Colin: I think Westboss had tweeted, this was in October, 00:20:28.256 --> 00:20:31.526 so only a month ago, right? 00:20:31.666 --> 00:20:37.376 Yeah, the, an hour long podcast, how many tokens of input and how 00:20:37.376 --> 00:20:40.476 much they would cost to summarize that podcast and all the different 00:20:40.476 --> 00:20:42.266 models, we can put a link to this. 00:20:42.676 --> 00:20:46.816 But with this announcement, they said that it took it down to 18 00:20:46.836 --> 00:20:48.486 cents for an hour long podcast. 00:20:50.091 --> 00:20:53.491 probably because there's also a larger token context now. 00:20:53.491 --> 00:20:57.571 So you don't have to try to do this in multiple contexts and 00:20:57.571 --> 00:20:59.061 merge them or any of that stuff. 00:20:59.631 --> 00:21:03.351 obviously if you spend more, I think there was like some of the GPTs 00:21:03.401 --> 00:21:08.181 costs like 66 cents and you end up with like better quality, more of a 00:21:08.181 --> 00:21:09.741 limit takes a little bit more time. 00:21:10.351 --> 00:21:12.161 so yeah, it's interesting to see. 00:21:12.431 --> 00:21:13.141 I don't know. 00:21:13.141 --> 00:21:17.771 I haven't been following the implications of what all this is like where the 00:21:18.296 --> 00:21:22.996 Total compute that's just being burned on AI stuff has got to be insane. 00:21:22.996 --> 00:21:26.736 And I know NVIDIA is riding that wave right now, but all of these 00:21:26.736 --> 00:21:30.326 announcements, I just think it's good to be a GPU creator right now. 00:21:30.551 --> 00:21:31.091 CJ: Totally. 00:21:31.191 --> 00:21:31.601 Yeah. 00:21:32.241 --> 00:21:32.951 We'll see. 00:21:33.101 --> 00:21:37.151 I feel like didn't their stock price just took a huge hit too, right? 00:21:37.181 --> 00:21:37.851 Nvidia? 00:21:38.396 --> 00:21:39.066 Colin: I think so. 00:21:39.066 --> 00:21:39.826 CJ: maybe their backup. 00:21:40.571 --> 00:21:41.781 Colin: Looks like they're back on top. 00:21:42.736 --> 00:21:45.906 CJ: They spiked back in May. 00:21:46.606 --> 00:21:48.376 And then it's been really wavy since then. 00:21:48.386 --> 00:21:52.786 I think that holding like the top spot is going to be tricky now that everyone is 00:21:52.796 --> 00:21:55.936 gunning for like how to create the right, 00:21:56.796 --> 00:21:59.806 Colin: but the price was a third what it is a year ago, It's 00:21:59.806 --> 00:22:01.706 300 percent up from last year. 00:22:02.121 --> 00:22:04.441 CJ: Yeah, not too shabby, right? 00:22:04.521 --> 00:22:06.331 yeah, it would be good to work at Nvidia, 00:22:07.736 --> 00:22:11.936 Colin: It's, it's still not quite the price of one share of Chipotle though. 00:22:14.656 --> 00:22:17.556 Chipotle, I don't know when they're going to do a stock split or what, 00:22:17.556 --> 00:22:21.686 but one share is 2, 111 right now. 00:22:21.686 --> 00:22:21.926 2, 00:22:22.691 --> 00:22:23.101 CJ: wow. 00:22:23.506 --> 00:22:25.866 Colin: 100 for a share of a burrito. 00:22:26.551 --> 00:22:27.081 CJ: Nice. 00:22:27.461 --> 00:22:34.631 But yeah, Chipotle is like 57 billion market cap and Nvidia is 1. 00:22:34.631 --> 00:22:36.471 2 trillion market cap, so 00:22:36.471 --> 00:22:36.861 Colin: different. 00:22:36.991 --> 00:22:37.201 Little 00:22:37.506 --> 00:22:37.926 CJ: yeah. 00:22:38.236 --> 00:22:42.856 But still yeah, I think when I was, or like whenever I heard about the drop, 00:22:42.916 --> 00:22:49.256 they had gone from like the 1 trillion down to whatever the 900 billions again. 00:22:49.516 --> 00:22:53.586 And yeah, everyone's Oh no, did they actually do the thing? 00:22:54.116 --> 00:22:59.086 Colin: So now that my chat GPT can search the internet, the recap of GitHub universe 00:22:59.146 --> 00:23:04.556 was more co pilot, like you mentioned, co pilot enterprise, which I think is a 00:23:04.556 --> 00:23:09.186 chance for them to just charge enterprises more, give them more security, more 00:23:09.706 --> 00:23:12.546 Things like that where they're not as worried about their code being leaked. 00:23:12.596 --> 00:23:18.026 AI security features, vulnerability, prevention, identification. 00:23:18.916 --> 00:23:21.216 That stuff is always good. 00:23:21.216 --> 00:23:26.376 Like when you leak a token or you accidentally put, some sort of a 00:23:26.396 --> 00:23:29.666 SQL injection in your code, like GitHub could actually tell you 00:23:29.766 --> 00:23:33.326 that's present, I'll have to watch the video, but like I could see it's 00:23:33.326 --> 00:23:35.986 some really cool co pilot for PRs. 00:23:36.036 --> 00:23:37.266 Tooling as well. 00:23:37.711 --> 00:23:42.241 CJ: Yeah, so Mike and Tristan, guys I worked with at my VR are working 00:23:42.241 --> 00:23:44.421 on a new tool called gitcontext. 00:23:45.131 --> 00:23:48.111 Which is like a PR tool. 00:23:48.131 --> 00:23:51.241 So you can manage PRs. 00:23:51.291 --> 00:23:58.001 I am in the super alpha and still trying to figure out how to get it, get some of 00:23:58.011 --> 00:24:02.071 the basic stuff working, but I'm excited for where that's headed and totally agree. 00:24:02.121 --> 00:24:06.555 there will likely be a lot of companies built around, like, how can we. 00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:10.750 Help you write code, which probably starts with PRs. 00:24:10.760 --> 00:24:14.570 Like, Oh, you describe the PR that you want it to make. 00:24:14.580 --> 00:24:18.390 And then it just opens a simple one, kind of like depend a bot style, but it's 00:24:18.390 --> 00:24:20.280 like, Oh, fix this in plus one query. 00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:23.090 And we'll just go in and add the includes for you or yeah. 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:29.230 add a log statement every time I do X PR that does that for you. 00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:30.480 Colin: Nice. 00:24:30.810 --> 00:24:35.310 It looks like some of this like GitHub copilot workspace offers AI bridge 00:24:35.310 --> 00:24:39.530 to help developers from issue to pull requests, which will be available in 2024. 00:24:40.030 --> 00:24:42.040 So yeah, we'll have to check out the videos. 00:24:42.110 --> 00:24:47.080 If anyone was in the GitHub universe audience be please 00:24:47.090 --> 00:24:49.470 send us some links, send us some things that we should look at. 00:24:50.116 --> 00:24:51.596 I did share these. 00:24:51.886 --> 00:24:53.406 fonts that were released. 00:24:53.896 --> 00:24:56.946 So some free, super fonts for programming. 00:24:56.946 --> 00:24:59.416 So very monospaced, very programmatic. 00:24:59.446 --> 00:25:03.636 It looks like programmatic because I can change the weight and the 00:25:03.636 --> 00:25:07.866 font size and the width all with like sliders and the font changes. 00:25:08.396 --> 00:25:08.786 CJ: Yep. 00:25:09.176 --> 00:25:11.386 Very beautiful website, monospace. 00:25:11.426 --> 00:25:12.146 githubnext. 00:25:12.146 --> 00:25:14.626 com., I don't know, there's some really crisp stuff in here. 00:25:14.686 --> 00:25:17.146 Gotta burn some time figuring out how to make them work in Vim. 00:25:17.196 --> 00:25:18.346 yeah, we'll see. 00:25:19.271 --> 00:25:20.941 Colin: Yeah, if you haven't been to githubnext. 00:25:20.941 --> 00:25:25.431 com, that whole site is just, they have a team of, researchers 00:25:25.461 --> 00:25:29.051 and, staff level folks who are just, what if GitHub did this? 00:25:29.111 --> 00:25:30.491 And they just do it. 00:25:30.681 --> 00:25:37.311 And it's just, a lot of really cool researchers and UX people and just 00:25:38.731 --> 00:25:41.571 trying to push the boundaries of, developer tools is pretty cool. 00:25:41.966 --> 00:25:42.466 CJ: Totally. 00:25:43.086 --> 00:25:43.276 Yeah. 00:25:43.276 --> 00:25:45.686 And it's this site is so sexy. 00:25:45.686 --> 00:25:50.596 Like when you hover over some of the fonts, like the weights trends, 00:25:50.636 --> 00:25:53.896 like they have the CSS transition, like on the weight of the font. 00:25:53.896 --> 00:25:55.356 So I don't know, it's fun. 00:25:56.306 --> 00:25:57.496 Go play around with it for sure. 00:25:58.326 --> 00:25:58.976 Colin: Definitely. 00:25:59.156 --> 00:26:01.246 So what else are you working on this week? 00:26:01.356 --> 00:26:02.006 What are you learning? 00:26:02.006 --> 00:26:02.556 What are you building? 00:26:02.746 --> 00:26:06.336 CJ: I put up a video earlier this week about setting up 00:26:06.356 --> 00:26:08.316 Jupyter notebooks with rails. 00:26:08.426 --> 00:26:13.166 so Jupyter is a really popular, tool inside of the Python ecosystem. 00:26:13.166 --> 00:26:20.646 And, using Jupyter notebooks within Ruby, you can do by installing a Ruby kernel. 00:26:20.686 --> 00:26:21.666 So the kernel is like. 00:26:22.306 --> 00:26:26.476 The thing that communicates between your language, like your backend 00:26:26.476 --> 00:26:31.516 language, and these notebooks, which are typically run in like a web interface. 00:26:32.016 --> 00:26:35.376 And so you'll have this web interface where you can have different cells that 00:26:35.376 --> 00:26:39.486 you run and you can run like the whole sheet, or you can run one cell at a time. 00:26:39.936 --> 00:26:43.116 If you're familiar with rails, you might think of it as like having a rails 00:26:43.116 --> 00:26:50.516 console, but being able to edit and rerun and Manage the each line of code that's 00:26:50.516 --> 00:26:52.416 in some kind of like little script. 00:26:52.606 --> 00:26:54.966 there's also like really cool things built into Jupiter for 00:26:54.966 --> 00:26:59.456 visualizations and you can embed HTML and Markdown and things like that. 00:26:59.466 --> 00:27:05.226 it's really popular in Python for academic things and, like displaying Matt. 00:27:05.381 --> 00:27:09.911 matplotlib type charts, where you'll see like scatter plots or line 00:27:09.931 --> 00:27:13.591 charts or bar charts or whatever, as part of data sciencey type things. 00:27:14.151 --> 00:27:17.381 And so there's a way to do that with rails, and there's 00:27:17.391 --> 00:27:19.521 some gems that are useful. 00:27:19.611 --> 00:27:23.721 so played around a lot with that, trying to get that working so that we have a 00:27:23.731 --> 00:27:28.821 similar data science experience when inside of, the Kraftwerk code base, 00:27:29.101 --> 00:27:31.851 as you might have, in Python land. 00:27:32.201 --> 00:27:35.631 And then, yeah, it's also just like a cool way to teach, I think. 00:27:36.081 --> 00:27:41.621 So if you look up YouTube videos about open AI, like most of them are in 00:27:41.621 --> 00:27:44.991 Python and most of them are just using Jupyter notebooks to walk through, 00:27:44.991 --> 00:27:46.811 like I did this and then I did this, 00:27:47.311 --> 00:27:48.751 Colin: because you can write prose, right? 00:27:48.751 --> 00:27:52.721 You can explain and then have code that runs right in, in context. 00:27:53.411 --> 00:27:56.001 CJ: Yeah, you can have like markdown cells and things like that. 00:27:56.031 --> 00:27:59.211 And then they also end up looking great on GitHub. 00:27:59.281 --> 00:28:05.481 Like when you push them up, like they look like documentation with code snippets, but 00:28:05.481 --> 00:28:06.941 then you can download them and run them. 00:28:06.941 --> 00:28:11.451 And I think even like in Google code lab or whatever, that's the experience 00:28:11.451 --> 00:28:13.771 too, that you'll get if you're running. 00:28:15.356 --> 00:28:18.166 Inside of, inside of their using their GPUs or whatever. 00:28:18.776 --> 00:28:22.526 So that's, yeah, that's been a fun part of the week. 00:28:22.876 --> 00:28:23.246 So 00:28:23.921 --> 00:28:24.271 Colin: Cool. 00:28:24.271 --> 00:28:25.241 I'll have to share that video 00:28:25.736 --> 00:28:26.126 CJ: yeah. 00:28:26.216 --> 00:28:26.766 What about you? 00:28:27.276 --> 00:28:28.486 Colin: I've been going down the rabbit hole. 00:28:28.576 --> 00:28:30.080 whole of like, docs. 00:28:30.140 --> 00:28:36.080 I think we talked about diet taxes a few weeks ago, but just figuring out not only 00:28:36.080 --> 00:28:41.010 like how we want to redo the information architecture of our docs, but what tools 00:28:41.010 --> 00:28:42.590 we're going to use if we can do it. 00:28:42.590 --> 00:28:46.180 Don't think it's ever a priority like we're not going to ever have a team that's 00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:48.090 going to get to go to rebuild it all. 00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:51.550 And so I'm looking at all the different JavaScript frameworks and 00:28:51.550 --> 00:28:53.990 all the static things out there. 00:28:53.990 --> 00:28:57.620 And like Astro has this thing called Starlight that's 00:28:57.630 --> 00:28:59.660 specifically for a docs template. 00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:05.385 Basically, Tailwind UI has protocol, which is just like a really nice doc site. 00:29:05.540 --> 00:29:07.190 There's Docusaurus. 00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:10.510 There's all these different tools that people have used for a really long time. 00:29:10.510 --> 00:29:14.070 And so looking through those and trying to figure out, can 00:29:14.070 --> 00:29:15.680 we use something off the shelf? 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.520 do we really need to reinvent this wheel or do we want it to 00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:21.300 just be a really good experience? 00:29:21.370 --> 00:29:23.840 Angular has some new docs, angular. 00:29:23.850 --> 00:29:24.240 dev. 00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:28.560 And I really like how, if you go to their website and you scroll, it's 00:29:28.870 --> 00:29:32.680 just a really fun design, but then on the side you have their stuff divided 00:29:32.690 --> 00:29:38.530 up by tutorials, there's a playground, there's a reference, it's very obvious, 00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:45.550 What like the division of stuff is there right now, our docs, you have like prose 00:29:45.570 --> 00:29:50.380 mixed in with reference mixed in with Hey, don't forget to include your token. 00:29:50.390 --> 00:29:53.440 there's just a lot of little call outs that if you're not paying 00:29:53.440 --> 00:29:54.900 attention, you can forget something. 00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:57.950 sometimes you're like, is this a tutorial or am I being explained 00:29:57.950 --> 00:29:59.760 how WebSockets work, right? 00:29:59.760 --> 00:30:01.630 It's There's different outcomes. 00:30:01.690 --> 00:30:06.470 and what I really like about Diataxis is that they have a distinction between 00:30:06.470 --> 00:30:11.350 tutorials and guides in that a tutorial is meant to teach and a guide is 00:30:11.350 --> 00:30:13.310 meant to get something specific done. 00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:16.320 So once you have your bot, how do you host it? 00:30:16.550 --> 00:30:18.010 That might be more of a guide. 00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:21.540 You're learning how to host, but it might be more specific to like 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.190 how to host this on a Cloudflare worker, how to host this on Heroku, 00:30:25.190 --> 00:30:26.780 how to host this on specific things. 00:30:26.780 --> 00:30:30.160 And so just thinking through all of that, there's a lot of 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:31.770 content on the current doc site. 00:30:31.770 --> 00:30:33.870 So we're just trying to think how to move that around. 00:30:33.970 --> 00:30:37.280 and I think like most folks, there's like more stuff that we 00:30:37.280 --> 00:30:38.950 want to do than we have time to do. 00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:41.210 So what can we do first? 00:30:41.905 --> 00:30:42.365 CJ: Totally. 00:30:42.885 --> 00:30:43.985 A benefit that. 00:30:44.355 --> 00:30:49.395 I would not have thought about a year ago is by using something off the shelf 00:30:50.135 --> 00:30:57.600 There is likely going to be like easier integration with ai tools and so Lang 00:30:57.600 --> 00:31:04.960 chain, like the Lang chain Python library has built in docs, parsers for like the 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.260 top end documentation website things. 00:31:08.570 --> 00:31:12.400 And so it already knows Oh, I'm going to read a whatever 00:31:12.410 --> 00:31:15.220 docusaurus type site right now. 00:31:15.530 --> 00:31:18.980 And I know how to pull out the parts that are important for chunking this 00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:23.990 document and then using AI to like generate completions based on that. 00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:26.200 And so I, yeah. 00:31:26.600 --> 00:31:28.750 A year ago, I probably would have been like, Oh yeah, let me 00:31:28.750 --> 00:31:32.660 just use markdoc and build my own custom thing that looks, cool. 00:31:32.690 --> 00:31:37.320 And now I'm like, Oh, using something off the shelf would make it standardized 00:31:37.350 --> 00:31:40.920 and standardizes might be a good thing because now you can plug into 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.670 like lots of different ecosystems. 00:31:43.290 --> 00:31:44.280 So I don't know. 00:31:44.370 --> 00:31:44.610 Yeah. 00:31:44.610 --> 00:31:45.630 That's, it's tricky. 00:31:46.245 --> 00:31:49.775 Colin: I think Starlight supports MDX and Markdoc too. 00:31:49.785 --> 00:31:53.455 So there's some of that okay, they've already done the integration. 00:31:53.455 --> 00:31:55.475 They've, there's support for localization. 00:31:55.485 --> 00:31:57.055 There's support for light and dark themes. 00:31:57.105 --> 00:31:58.965 there's a lot of table stakes there. 00:31:58.985 --> 00:32:02.595 thinking about SEO, like whatever the SEO we have today is going to 00:32:02.605 --> 00:32:04.465 have to change if we move stuff. 00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:08.520 And so like thinking about all of that is also important. 00:32:08.990 --> 00:32:10.730 We have this thing right now. 00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:15.340 We, our docs are in public markdown files that the community can see. 00:32:15.870 --> 00:32:19.830 And I think what's interesting about that is anything that we 00:32:19.830 --> 00:32:22.780 put into a PR, they can see once it's merged, it's in the docs. 00:32:23.230 --> 00:32:27.880 There's things that we can't necessarily like a future feature can't go into those 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.060 PRs until it's ready to be talked about. 00:32:30.060 --> 00:32:34.180 So like we can't even really start to work on the docs until we can talk 00:32:34.190 --> 00:32:36.040 about it, which is also an issue. 00:32:36.360 --> 00:32:40.720 So it's not that we want to keep things hidden, but some things we have to keep 00:32:40.720 --> 00:32:45.520 hidden until it's More well formed and we know we're actually going to release it. 00:32:45.830 --> 00:32:50.320 We have staging servers for all of this stuff, but like on internal versions 00:32:50.330 --> 00:32:52.620 so that we can see it, get ahead of it. 00:32:52.630 --> 00:32:55.510 I started thinking about what does this look like in code samples? 00:32:55.510 --> 00:32:57.750 What does this look like in reference? 00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:58.730 Things like that. 00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:01.180 CJ: Even just like getting feedback from beta users, right? 00:33:01.180 --> 00:33:06.020 if you can't write about a beta, then, yeah, even at Stripe, like sometimes we 00:33:06.020 --> 00:33:10.420 would send a Google doc to early, like alpha users and be like, here's what our 00:33:10.430 --> 00:33:12.460 docs might look like, give us feedback. 00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:16.810 And then once we had something, then we would write some beta docs, 00:33:16.840 --> 00:33:18.360 put them behind a feature flag and. 00:33:18.810 --> 00:33:23.140 You know, let certain people into the beta and we considered the 00:33:23.140 --> 00:33:27.630 documentation part of the product so that they would give us feedback 00:33:27.775 --> 00:33:29.435 Colin: with the same feature flag, right? 00:33:29.450 --> 00:33:30.260 CJ: Exactly. 00:33:30.290 --> 00:33:30.650 Yeah. 00:33:30.650 --> 00:33:32.600 Yeah, they were, it was exactly the same. 00:33:32.610 --> 00:33:32.780 Yeah. 00:33:32.780 --> 00:33:35.820 It's Oh, if you're in that flag, then you get the docs and you get the feature, 00:33:36.380 --> 00:33:37.380 Colin: I would love that. 00:33:37.955 --> 00:33:39.735 CJ: Yeah, it's it was pretty killer. 00:33:39.845 --> 00:33:41.385 And obviously there's a whole team. 00:33:41.395 --> 00:33:43.535 There's like a whole engineering team that built docs 00:33:43.810 --> 00:33:44.200 Colin: Right. 00:33:44.675 --> 00:33:46.395 CJ: a whole other team that wrote docs. 00:33:46.505 --> 00:33:50.255 in particular, my buddy Dave, who used to work on the angular docs. 00:33:50.255 --> 00:33:52.605 And so something that I remember him telling me about was that. 00:33:53.160 --> 00:34:00.310 Their docs all have tests, like the actual examples are tested with whatever 00:34:00.350 --> 00:34:02.430 angular test framework they have. 00:34:02.850 --> 00:34:08.000 So they know like for sure, all the code snippets work and are like legit 00:34:08.040 --> 00:34:11.940 and, perform as expected, which that's like another huge challenge is like, 00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:15.860 how do you manage and maintain code snippets and samples inside of the docs? 00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:16.300 Which 00:34:17.630 --> 00:34:19.070 I find particularly interesting. 00:34:19.940 --> 00:34:20.330 Colin: Yeah. 00:34:20.500 --> 00:34:23.040 That is a challenge I look forward to once we get there. 00:34:23.100 --> 00:34:26.440 right now it's just, we want to be able to do the docs and 00:34:26.935 --> 00:34:27.245 CJ: Yeah. 00:34:27.490 --> 00:34:31.540 Colin: bring them to the 2020, by the time we get this out by, 00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:33.940 we'll bring them to 2024 standards. 00:34:34.225 --> 00:34:35.795 AI is a big part of that, I think. 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:37.540 CJ: totally, yes. 00:34:37.940 --> 00:34:43.810 One question that I have is around how, common it was for the community 00:34:43.810 --> 00:34:46.670 to make contributions to the docs. 00:34:46.700 --> 00:34:49.690 I'm assuming that was like one of the biggest goals was like, 00:34:49.700 --> 00:34:52.710 let's make them public so the community can help us maintain them. 00:34:52.710 --> 00:34:54.310 Was that actually happening or was it, 00:34:54.435 --> 00:34:54.775 Colin: Oh, yeah. 00:34:54.775 --> 00:34:56.635 We have 40 open PRS right now. 00:34:56.945 --> 00:34:57.505 And 00:34:57.890 --> 00:34:58.250 CJ: okay, 00:34:58.300 --> 00:35:01.440 Colin: you're out there listening, there's frustration around how 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:05.130 long it takes for them to close because we need to verify that what 00:35:05.130 --> 00:35:07.100 they've documented is in fact true. 00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:11.780 So there's some like chicken and egg here with an open API spec 00:35:11.790 --> 00:35:15.300 in that sometimes it's updating reference that's just out of date. 00:35:15.885 --> 00:35:19.255 Because their experience as a developer is hey, this doesn't return that 00:35:19.255 --> 00:35:22.655 thing anymore, or you deprecated this thing, or you said you were going to 00:35:22.655 --> 00:35:25.215 deprecate this thing, and you guys still haven't deprecated it yet. 00:35:25.495 --> 00:35:27.625 sometimes, we have issues and PRs. 00:35:27.645 --> 00:35:29.265 Issues tend to be real issues. 00:35:29.525 --> 00:35:30.925 this thing doesn't work, or... 00:35:31.465 --> 00:35:32.545 This is supposed to be like this. 00:35:32.545 --> 00:35:36.715 And we have engineers who do solve those things, whereas PRSs are 00:35:36.715 --> 00:35:38.815 more the dev team, the Devra team. 00:35:38.875 --> 00:35:42.565 And it might just be like, Hey, you guys never documented this feature. 00:35:42.570 --> 00:35:44.390 It's that feature's not fully rolled out. 00:35:44.740 --> 00:35:47.590 We appreciate you writing the docs for it, but we're not going to merge 00:35:47.590 --> 00:35:49.060 this until it's fully rolled out. 00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.390 because whatever ends up in the docs is true. 00:35:52.780 --> 00:35:55.330 Whatever's in a PR is not necessarily true yet. 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:59.080 And it's also tricky when you're having PRs from folks to maintain 00:35:59.080 --> 00:36:02.910 a consistent voice, style guides, all this kind of stuff. 00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:06.100 I think we shipped like a table formatter that has been nuking 00:36:06.100 --> 00:36:07.670 everyone's tables in a weird way. 00:36:07.670 --> 00:36:12.820 It's like not the way that most linters lint markdown tables. 00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:16.170 And so it's I broke because the padding on this table is a little bit funny. 00:36:16.170 --> 00:36:20.190 And it's okay, that's so dumb to have to fix, but that's something 00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:21.330 computers can fix for us. 00:36:21.865 --> 00:36:23.485 So yeah, 00:36:25.755 --> 00:36:31.225 have one more week in my accountability group and I'm still trucking 00:36:31.225 --> 00:36:32.595 along on the conference room app. 00:36:32.735 --> 00:36:35.685 I'm going to do a little hackathoning on it today. 00:36:37.355 --> 00:36:40.705 finding myself, I think we mentioned last time, like I just finding 00:36:40.705 --> 00:36:43.675 myself having to build things that I don't think I need to build. 00:36:43.675 --> 00:36:46.155 So I have not moved to using rails. 00:36:46.155 --> 00:36:46.885 I'm still in. 00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:47.520 node. 00:36:47.690 --> 00:36:50.310 and so I don't have like user logins and all that stuff. 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.120 I'm just making it as the demo will be like if it shows up on the Google 00:36:54.120 --> 00:36:58.540 calendar, meaning it was added by a person with auth through the Google 00:36:58.540 --> 00:37:02.850 calendar, it'll show up in the app and you can like book the room right 00:37:02.850 --> 00:37:04.670 now anonymously and stuff like that. 00:37:05.190 --> 00:37:10.750 I am going to move this to rails and use jumpstart for the actual user onboarding 00:37:11.050 --> 00:37:12.920 user off, all that kind of stuff. 00:37:12.970 --> 00:37:14.310 And I was hoping, because Cal. 00:37:14.550 --> 00:37:19.200 com has this calendar infrastructure product that they have and I was hoping 00:37:19.200 --> 00:37:23.870 that I would just be able to reuse that or Calendly or there's this thing called 00:37:23.870 --> 00:37:30.030 Nylas that does like Google calendaring, Google mail, like it's an API. 00:37:30.310 --> 00:37:36.790 For those APIs and Nylas, you could build this with, but with cal. 00:37:36.990 --> 00:37:41.660 com and Calendly, like they're really designed for booking a single person. 00:37:42.670 --> 00:37:46.070 if what's tricky about Calendly is if any of the conference rooms are 00:37:46.070 --> 00:37:49.510 booked, then all the other conference rooms will also be booked because 00:37:49.510 --> 00:37:51.330 they don't treat them as resources. 00:37:51.330 --> 00:37:52.650 They treat them as a person. 00:37:53.220 --> 00:37:55.140 And that person has a meeting at this time. 00:37:55.140 --> 00:37:57.540 So that person can't meet with somebody else. 00:37:58.130 --> 00:37:58.450 Cal. 00:37:58.450 --> 00:37:58.730 com. 00:37:58.730 --> 00:38:01.650 I would love for you guys to really have calendar infrastructure. 00:38:01.650 --> 00:38:04.900 If that's if you power all these calendar apps, like you deal with time 00:38:04.900 --> 00:38:08.600 zone issues, you deal with all the things that most developers have to 00:38:08.600 --> 00:38:09.860 deal with, that would be really cool. 00:38:10.510 --> 00:38:14.000 What I find myself ending up doing is I'm building like this abstraction of 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.620 calendars and events and eventing on them. 00:38:18.260 --> 00:38:23.340 So a conference room can listen to the calendar and act on it. 00:38:23.830 --> 00:38:29.363 Like someone has this room after you do, or conference room was canceled. 00:38:29.363 --> 00:38:32.303 The conference room was extended, all that kind of different stuff. 00:38:32.313 --> 00:38:32.763 So 00:38:33.818 --> 00:38:34.198 CJ: Cool. 00:38:36.068 --> 00:38:40.608 That's I'm like pumped to see it and excited that you're 00:38:40.618 --> 00:38:41.698 continuing to make progress. 00:38:41.698 --> 00:38:42.448 It sounds awesome. 00:38:42.528 --> 00:38:46.868 yeah, I, we have been using full calendar and every time I get a feature request. 00:38:47.243 --> 00:38:49.673 From the team that's like, Oh, can we add this? 00:38:49.673 --> 00:38:49.943 Whatever. 00:38:49.943 --> 00:38:51.943 I'm like, Oh, and I kind of grip my teeth. 00:38:51.943 --> 00:38:55.803 I'm like, I don't know if it's going to work with full calendar. 00:38:55.833 --> 00:38:56.793 And then I'm always surprised. 00:38:56.793 --> 00:39:01.673 I'm like, Whoa, I can like totally just hook into this callback and then 00:39:01.773 --> 00:39:03.783 customize that part of the page this way. 00:39:03.783 --> 00:39:07.193 Or Oh, there's a CSS class there that I can customize this other thing with. 00:39:07.233 --> 00:39:08.383 And yeah, full calendar has 00:39:08.623 --> 00:39:09.573 Colin: was the way to go. 00:39:10.043 --> 00:39:11.733 CJ: yeah, for us, it's been, pretty. 00:39:12.008 --> 00:39:13.108 Pretty useful, but, 00:39:13.268 --> 00:39:13.778 Colin: Nice. 00:39:13.953 --> 00:39:16.573 CJ: yeah, we're, definitely a different use case. 00:39:16.633 --> 00:39:16.943 Colin: Cool. 00:39:17.583 --> 00:39:18.582 Anything else you're working on? 00:39:18.582 --> 00:39:19.473 Just going away on the 00:39:19.523 --> 00:39:23.633 CJ: yeah, working, I like chipping away at story fuel a bit. 00:39:24.033 --> 00:39:26.323 so I'm going to say. 00:39:26.743 --> 00:39:31.693 That by the time this episode comes out, you can go to story fuel that app and 00:39:31.763 --> 00:39:37.713 submit a request on the landing page for a story to be added to the podcast. 00:39:38.163 --> 00:39:39.153 So if you go to listen. 00:39:39.153 --> 00:39:39.873 storyfuel. 00:39:40.053 --> 00:39:44.963 app, you can see some of the existing stories and listen, listen to 00:39:44.963 --> 00:39:48.943 those as podcasts and then, yeah, you'll be able to Submit a story 00:39:48.943 --> 00:39:50.103 idea that you want to listen to. 00:39:50.103 --> 00:39:52.583 It's not going to be real time, but you can say, Hey, I 00:39:52.583 --> 00:39:54.393 want to hear this, this story. 00:39:54.423 --> 00:39:56.353 So yeah, that's, it's been fun. 00:39:56.983 --> 00:39:59.293 Colin: definitely have to talk about what you've been doing at 00:39:59.293 --> 00:40:01.303 Craftwork next time with Typeform. 00:40:01.513 --> 00:40:04.643 Because, yeah, I remember that being a painful thing at a 00:40:04.723 --> 00:40:05.803 previous company we were at. 00:40:06.293 --> 00:40:06.873 CJ: Yeah. 00:40:06.923 --> 00:40:07.413 Yeah. 00:40:07.473 --> 00:40:11.693 It's like the same exact type of situation, moving off 00:40:11.713 --> 00:40:12.903 type form onto our own thing. 00:40:12.903 --> 00:40:13.283 So 00:40:13.608 --> 00:40:16.828 Colin: Well, I'm excited to play with StoryFuel and, yeah, 00:40:16.858 --> 00:40:18.038 we can probably wrap it here. 00:40:18.038 --> 00:40:22.368 And, I think we should talk about how you even get this much stuff done in a week. 00:40:22.448 --> 00:40:26.088 I think that's a future topic, hacking on Jupyter notebooks and 00:40:26.088 --> 00:40:30.018 videos and side projects on top of your, all your other life stuff. 00:40:30.018 --> 00:40:33.578 So we'll have to chat a little bit about how we get this stuff done, 00:40:34.153 --> 00:40:34.983 CJ: Yeah, that'd be fun. 00:40:34.983 --> 00:40:36.563 It'd be fun to get into for sure. 00:40:36.748 --> 00:40:37.068 Colin: cool. 00:40:37.205 --> 00:40:38.245 Let's wrap it there. 00:40:38.910 --> 00:40:39.340 CJ: Nice. 00:40:39.390 --> 00:40:42.000 As always, you can head over to buildandlearn. 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.820 dev to check out all the links and resources and the 00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:46.040 show notes for this episode. 00:40:46.080 --> 00:40:47.410 And, that's a wrap. 00:40:47.590 --> 00:40:48.140 Thanks folks. 00:40:48.140 --> 00:40:48.830 We'll see you next time. 00:40:49.685 --> 00:40:50.305 Colin: Bye friends.