WEBVTT 00:00:02.910 --> 00:00:07.920 Matt Abrahams: How you sound and what you say is critical to communication success. 00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:10.950 Let's put an accent on accents. 00:00:11.280 --> 00:00:14.400 My name's Matt Abrahams and I teach Strategic Communication at 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:16.200 Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:19.780 Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:23.540 Today I look forward to speaking once again with my friend Valerie Fridland. 00:00:23.930 --> 00:00:27.979 Valerie is a professor of sociolinguistics at the University of Nevada in Reno. 00:00:28.340 --> 00:00:31.670 She's an expert on the relationship between language and society. 00:00:32.060 --> 00:00:37.190 Valerie is the author of Like, Literally, Dude, arguing for the good in bad 00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:41.599 English, and recently she released her new book called Why We Talk Funny: 00:00:41.810 --> 00:00:44.420 The Real Story Behind Our Accents. 00:00:44.865 --> 00:00:46.305 Well, welcome back Valerie. 00:00:46.305 --> 00:00:50.055 I am thrilled to be joined with you again and to continue the conversations 00:00:50.055 --> 00:00:53.625 you and I have had many times over the last time since you visited. 00:00:53.655 --> 00:00:54.435 Thanks for being here. 00:00:54.825 --> 00:00:55.575 Valerie Fridland: Oh, absolutely. 00:00:55.575 --> 00:00:57.225 It's always a pleasure to talk with you, Matt. 00:00:57.555 --> 00:00:58.035 Matt Abrahams: Excellent. 00:00:58.035 --> 00:00:58.845 Shall we get started? 00:00:59.055 --> 00:00:59.835 Valerie Fridland: Let's do it. 00:01:00.075 --> 00:01:04.004 Matt Abrahams: You have taught me so many things about how language works, 00:01:04.004 --> 00:01:07.800 but none has fundamentally changed my view than what you've talked 00:01:07.815 --> 00:01:10.605 about in terms of filled pauses. 00:01:10.905 --> 00:01:14.765 It changed the way I think about it, I teach it, what I try to do in my own work. 00:01:15.035 --> 00:01:18.275 For those of you who haven't heard Valerie's complete description of this 00:01:18.275 --> 00:01:22.925 checkout episode 91, would you mind just giving us a quick summary of what filled 00:01:22.925 --> 00:01:27.545 pauses are and what they actually do for us as communicators and as listeners? 00:01:27.800 --> 00:01:29.060 Valerie Fridland: Sure, absolutely. 00:01:29.060 --> 00:01:32.600 Well filled pauses are things we all use on occasion. 00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:37.070 We all recognize because they're the uhs and ums that populate our 00:01:37.070 --> 00:01:39.530 pauses, and every language has them. 00:01:39.530 --> 00:01:42.140 So it's something we find the world over. 00:01:42.140 --> 00:01:44.870 They're not all exactly the same form, but roughly. 00:01:45.050 --> 00:01:48.650 But what we find is that um and uh tend to occur when we're 00:01:48.650 --> 00:01:50.360 doing more complex things. 00:01:50.360 --> 00:01:54.980 So whenever we are having more complex sentence structures, so we're putting 00:01:54.980 --> 00:01:59.140 a lot of embeddings, a lot of different sort of extra parts in our sentences and 00:01:59.290 --> 00:02:04.270 and's, or or's, and relative clauses, we find that uh and um tend to occur 00:02:04.270 --> 00:02:06.940 before those points of more complexity. 00:02:07.090 --> 00:02:12.100 We also find when we're coming up with hard words, big words, unfamiliar words, 00:02:12.250 --> 00:02:14.750 we tend to uh or um more in front of them. 00:02:15.079 --> 00:02:19.130 But I think the most fascinating thing is not just why we do them as speakers, 00:02:19.130 --> 00:02:22.940 because we're signaling harder work cognitively, but it's actually what they 00:02:22.940 --> 00:02:25.490 do for a listener that's incredible. 00:02:25.490 --> 00:02:29.209 And not only do they signal to a listener like, hey, I'm doing 00:02:29.209 --> 00:02:30.560 something really complex here. 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:31.579 It's gonna take me a minute. 00:02:31.579 --> 00:02:35.390 So they're kind of just giving you a heads up that we're taking a moment. 00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:39.200 The reason we wanna do that is because if I pause silently, 00:02:39.200 --> 00:02:40.170 you might think I'm done. 00:02:40.700 --> 00:02:43.700 But if I uh or um it's signaling to you I'm not done. 00:02:43.700 --> 00:02:47.720 I'm just pausing for a sec. But the really, really fascinating part 00:02:47.900 --> 00:02:52.070 is that they actually really help with memory on the listener side. 00:02:52.070 --> 00:02:56.450 So when we run experiments and we have people say uh before a content word, 00:02:56.450 --> 00:03:00.325 before some sort of word that we're interested in people remembering, and 00:03:00.445 --> 00:03:04.100 then we run the same experiment where we don't have people uh before that word, 00:03:04.130 --> 00:03:08.420 we find that the recall for the word with uh in front of it is better than 00:03:08.420 --> 00:03:09.630 in the cases where they didn't have uh. 00:03:09.950 --> 00:03:13.160 Which tells us that they're actually doing some pretty important work. 00:03:13.160 --> 00:03:17.630 So if you want people to remember what you say, a little uh won't hurt you. 00:03:17.690 --> 00:03:21.079 But I wouldn't overpopulate because we also don't like them. 00:03:21.079 --> 00:03:23.839 So just be aware of that facet as well. 00:03:24.170 --> 00:03:27.019 Matt Abrahams: It's fascinating to me that these filler words exist 00:03:27.019 --> 00:03:30.380 across different languages and that they actually serve a purpose. 00:03:30.380 --> 00:03:31.834 They signal that we're working hard. 00:03:32.230 --> 00:03:34.660 They highlight that what we're about to say is something 00:03:34.660 --> 00:03:35.709 you should pay attention to. 00:03:35.709 --> 00:03:38.920 And it turns out people actually do pay more attention and they actually 00:03:38.920 --> 00:03:40.390 remember that information more. 00:03:40.390 --> 00:03:45.519 So the old adage, get rid of all the filled pauses, is not actually accurate. 00:03:45.700 --> 00:03:48.040 It's okay to have them and they in fact help us. 00:03:48.040 --> 00:03:51.220 It's when you have a lot of them that it gets distracting. 00:03:51.220 --> 00:03:55.239 And I would argue that my theory is the reason when somebody uses so 00:03:55.239 --> 00:03:58.870 many of these filled pauses annoys us is we're actually trained to 00:03:58.870 --> 00:04:00.670 expect something of value to follow. 00:04:00.965 --> 00:04:04.595 If all that follows an um is another um that actually is frustrating. 00:04:04.835 --> 00:04:06.364 Valerie Fridland: Partially, I think that's true. 00:04:06.364 --> 00:04:09.635 I also think it's that the natural tendency is that we're going to um 00:04:09.635 --> 00:04:13.505 and uh more often in high stakes context because it's things we're 00:04:13.505 --> 00:04:17.344 not as used to saying, and it's not anxiety or stress, there's actually 00:04:17.344 --> 00:04:20.245 not that much evidence that really increases our rate of um-ing and uh-ing. 00:04:20.700 --> 00:04:24.450 When we go in front of the executive leadership and we're talking about 00:04:24.450 --> 00:04:28.200 something very important that we've done, we're probably going to be 00:04:28.200 --> 00:04:32.159 using higher level vocabulary, things we're not quite as familiar with. 00:04:32.219 --> 00:04:36.120 So I think when we're hearing presentations or speeches and people 00:04:36.120 --> 00:04:39.419 do a lot of um-ing and uh-ing, that is something that annoys us 00:04:39.419 --> 00:04:42.480 because we have an expectation that they're very well prepared and they 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:43.680 know what they're going to say. 00:04:43.980 --> 00:04:46.620 So things that signal they don't disturb us. 00:04:46.974 --> 00:04:48.085 Matt Abrahams: I think you're exactly right. 00:04:48.445 --> 00:04:53.484 I'd like to turn our attention now to your second book, which is all about accents. 00:04:53.875 --> 00:04:55.885 You write that we all have accents. 00:04:56.094 --> 00:05:00.205 Why do we so easily notice accents in others but not ourselves? 00:05:00.625 --> 00:05:03.745 Valerie Fridland: I think the greatest myth that we operate under every 00:05:03.745 --> 00:05:06.174 day is that we don't have an accent. 00:05:06.234 --> 00:05:10.585 You know, we don't notice our accents because everybody around 00:05:10.585 --> 00:05:12.474 us generally talks like we do. 00:05:12.474 --> 00:05:17.405 So if you are moving to a new place, that's really when you're first realizing, 00:05:17.435 --> 00:05:19.595 oh my gosh, I'm the one that sounds funny. 00:05:19.745 --> 00:05:23.495 Because when you are the one that is the dominant speaker in an 00:05:23.495 --> 00:05:27.455 area, most people are sounding like you, so you don't hear it. 00:05:27.455 --> 00:05:28.265 You're used to it. 00:05:28.295 --> 00:05:31.505 Particularly when we're children, we grow up in an area, we kind of 00:05:31.505 --> 00:05:35.255 adjust or normalize to whatever we hear most often around us. 00:05:35.565 --> 00:05:39.525 Which can also be, not just the accents that's sort of prevalent in your area, 00:05:39.525 --> 00:05:43.065 but say you're born to a non-native speaker and you grew up as a native 00:05:43.065 --> 00:05:48.195 speaker in the US for example, you won't hear your parents' accents because 00:05:48.195 --> 00:05:50.175 you have normalized them as children. 00:05:50.354 --> 00:05:54.284 So we don't hear the accents around us because we're so familiar with them. 00:05:54.605 --> 00:05:57.095 We also are very heightened to notice difference. 00:05:57.095 --> 00:06:01.265 So when people come into our communities and they're not dressing like we are, 00:06:01.325 --> 00:06:05.645 they're not looking like we are, and really strongly not sounding like we 00:06:05.645 --> 00:06:10.625 are, we notice that and that's where the sort of the salience of accent comes in. 00:06:11.354 --> 00:06:13.965 Matt Abrahams: I do wanna talk about culture because accents 00:06:13.965 --> 00:06:15.645 and cultures go together. 00:06:15.945 --> 00:06:19.185 When communicating across cultures we often focus on learning the right 00:06:19.185 --> 00:06:25.575 vocabulary, the grammar, but you highlight the rhythm and intonation, like English 00:06:25.604 --> 00:06:30.580 as a stress timed language versus Spanish or Mandarin being a syllable 00:06:30.580 --> 00:06:34.000 timed, and I'd like for you to explain those, are huge hurdles for people. 00:06:34.270 --> 00:06:40.090 How do these, what are called prosodic differences, affect how well speakers are 00:06:40.090 --> 00:06:46.000 understood and evaluated by somebody in the native language they're now speaking? 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:47.380 Valerie Fridland: Absolutely. 00:06:47.719 --> 00:06:52.909 When we're learning a language, we work a lot on sounds, but we really tend to 00:06:52.909 --> 00:06:59.060 ignore some really important areas that make a big impact on how comprehensible 00:06:59.060 --> 00:07:02.990 you are and how intelligible you are as a speaker, which is an area that linguists 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:05.659 called prosodic features or prosody. 00:07:05.659 --> 00:07:09.230 And those include things like word stress and sentence stress. 00:07:09.230 --> 00:07:12.260 So what's highlighted by a speaker in a language. 00:07:12.595 --> 00:07:17.965 Tone, which can be like with Mandarin, tone on a single word can actually 00:07:17.965 --> 00:07:20.965 change the meaning of that word, something English doesn't have, which 00:07:20.965 --> 00:07:23.935 is obviously something really hard for English speakers when they're learning 00:07:23.935 --> 00:07:28.405 Mandarin, or intonation patterns, which as an English speaker, I often 00:07:28.405 --> 00:07:33.115 go down in my tone at the end of a sentence to signal I'm done talking. 00:07:33.415 --> 00:07:37.375 Conversely, when I have a question, I often ask that question with a 00:07:37.375 --> 00:07:41.755 rising intonation because that's signaling that I'm asking a question. 00:07:41.755 --> 00:07:44.245 So that's a sentence level pattern. 00:07:44.365 --> 00:07:50.065 So those are different types of prosodic features, and they're very difficult 00:07:50.065 --> 00:07:54.225 to learn when you come in from a language with one system prosodically 00:07:54.355 --> 00:07:57.534 and you're learning a language with a different system prosodically. 00:07:57.655 --> 00:08:01.265 So for example, as I mentioned a minute ago, an English speaker 00:08:01.265 --> 00:08:02.705 trying to learn a tonal language. 00:08:03.035 --> 00:08:06.485 Our intonation patterns where we go up at the end or down at the 00:08:06.485 --> 00:08:10.355 end, make it really hard when we're trying to get tones on a word. 00:08:10.595 --> 00:08:15.065 The opposite is when we have different sort of structures to our language 00:08:15.065 --> 00:08:19.205 inherently, and that's where we get to the stress versus syllable timing, 00:08:19.355 --> 00:08:24.035 where our fundamental way that we stress syllables in our language 00:08:24.065 --> 00:08:25.565 is different than another one. 00:08:25.805 --> 00:08:27.365 So let's break that down. 00:08:27.465 --> 00:08:33.225 Stress timing is a language like English, Russian, Arabic, German, and this is 00:08:33.225 --> 00:08:39.914 where particular words or syllables that you're speaking get more stress than 00:08:39.975 --> 00:08:43.605 others, depending on what the speaker wants to highlight in that language. 00:08:43.605 --> 00:08:47.985 So certain syllables are louder and longer, and then the other syllables in 00:08:47.985 --> 00:08:52.365 between actually get smushed together they had to be said more rapidly to 00:08:52.365 --> 00:08:57.045 fit into a sort of certain timing unit between those stress syllables. 00:08:57.045 --> 00:09:01.875 So in that language you have a rhythm that's sort of like dum dum dum. 00:09:02.954 --> 00:09:06.974 So you have the short syllables that are really jam packed and that's why 00:09:06.974 --> 00:09:08.685 you get things like vowel reduction. 00:09:08.685 --> 00:09:13.694 So when I say the instead of the in English or a instead of a, it's because 00:09:13.694 --> 00:09:17.384 I'm actually having to squish them between stress syllables interval. 00:09:17.670 --> 00:09:23.189 In a syllable timed language, which is something like Spanish or Chinese or 00:09:23.189 --> 00:09:28.820 French or Portuguese, every syllable has equal stress, so it's more like, bum 00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:31.185 bum, bum, bum bum, bum bum of a rhythm. 00:09:32.024 --> 00:09:37.184 Now this seems very complex and how would I ever figure out how to switch over? 00:09:37.184 --> 00:09:38.804 Well that's exactly the problem. 00:09:38.804 --> 00:09:39.944 We don't get practice in that. 00:09:39.944 --> 00:09:43.544 And this completely impacts how well you're understood. 00:09:43.544 --> 00:09:46.784 It may not seem like that big a deal 'cause it just is rhythmic, but it's 00:09:46.784 --> 00:09:49.994 a huge deal because think of a word as someone who might have a syllable 00:09:49.994 --> 00:09:52.444 time language, like it'd elephant. 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:56.159 If you didn't know we were talking about giant things with big ears and 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:00.359 trunks, you might have no idea what I said because it's elephant for a 00:10:00.359 --> 00:10:03.239 native English speaker, because I'm stressing that first syllable and 00:10:03.239 --> 00:10:04.919 then jamming the others really quick. 00:10:05.129 --> 00:10:08.279 But if I have a syllable time language, I'm going to stress each 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:12.329 syllable equally and I'll have no a vowel because that's only happens 00:10:12.329 --> 00:10:14.459 when I remove stress from a syllable. 00:10:14.550 --> 00:10:17.849 So what happens, you can actually get words that are completely unintelligible 00:10:17.910 --> 00:10:21.390 because you're saying the stress wrong because you used a syllable time 00:10:21.390 --> 00:10:23.640 pattern on a stress time language. 00:10:23.819 --> 00:10:27.420 So these are things that are really rarely discussed in language classes. 00:10:27.420 --> 00:10:30.479 There are often problems that people encounter and they don't know why 00:10:30.479 --> 00:10:32.099 they're having problems being understood. 00:10:32.490 --> 00:10:36.030 And in fact, research suggests that non-native stress patterns like 00:10:36.030 --> 00:10:39.209 this can infect intelligibility as much as not being able to 00:10:39.209 --> 00:10:40.800 pronounce the sounds correctly. 00:10:41.094 --> 00:10:45.144 Now there's no easy magic fix, but the solution is really practice. 00:10:45.144 --> 00:10:48.234 And a lot of that is generally shadowing native speakers. 00:10:48.474 --> 00:10:52.494 It doesn't have to be interactive, but you could even record a TV show 00:10:52.494 --> 00:10:56.724 and repeat exactly in the intonation pattern of that television show, and 00:10:56.724 --> 00:11:00.594 eventually you'll start getting that rhythm down so there's no easy solution. 00:11:01.064 --> 00:11:03.555 Matt Abrahams: So what I'm hearing you say, which is super important, for 00:11:03.555 --> 00:11:07.874 people who are trying to learn a second language, yes, vocabulary and grammar 00:11:07.874 --> 00:11:11.474 are important, but what's as important and perhaps even more in some cases for 00:11:11.474 --> 00:11:16.214 intelligibility, it is understanding the rhythm, the stress patterns. 00:11:16.484 --> 00:11:19.425 And as with everything communication related, it's one thing to 00:11:19.425 --> 00:11:20.714 understand it intellectually. 00:11:20.714 --> 00:11:24.194 It's another thing to do it, and that's really a way to help yourself. 00:11:24.435 --> 00:11:26.025 I appreciate you identifying that. 00:11:26.344 --> 00:11:28.564 I wanna switch the sides of the equation. 00:11:28.594 --> 00:11:32.314 We often think of the burden of successful communication as being 00:11:32.314 --> 00:11:36.244 on the speaker, the non-native speaker producing the information. 00:11:36.484 --> 00:11:40.655 What role does the listener play in this communicative dynamic? 00:11:40.685 --> 00:11:45.244 And how can we train our ears and minds to be better able to adapt to 00:11:45.244 --> 00:11:47.704 understanding unfamiliar accents? 00:11:47.974 --> 00:11:52.324 Valerie Fridland: We often really put a lot of the burden on a non-native speaker. 00:11:52.504 --> 00:11:55.624 Anytime we're having a conversation, we have this expectation that 00:11:55.624 --> 00:11:58.684 the speaker, it's their job to make it intelligible to us. 00:11:58.684 --> 00:12:01.834 It's their job to make their speech understood. 00:12:02.194 --> 00:12:05.404 There are so many different problems with that equation, but 00:12:05.404 --> 00:12:08.974 let's unpack it a little bit in terms of why that's not the case. 00:12:09.184 --> 00:12:11.524 First of all, communication's a partnership. 00:12:11.805 --> 00:12:15.135 Just like a marriage, you can't have a marriage when one side is doing all the 00:12:15.135 --> 00:12:18.944 work and you can't have a conversation where one side's doing all the work. 00:12:18.974 --> 00:12:22.874 If you've ever had a conversation where it's only one sided, it's not a good 00:12:22.874 --> 00:12:25.574 conversation and you probably aren't gonna keep talking to that person. 00:12:25.755 --> 00:12:29.685 So if we wanna make communication successful, we have to go into it 00:12:29.685 --> 00:12:33.525 with this understanding that it's not just their job as a speaker, 00:12:33.659 --> 00:12:37.679 it's my job as a listener to make this productive and successful. 00:12:37.949 --> 00:12:39.539 There are a couple things at play. 00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:43.019 One is as a listener, I don't realize sometimes that they're 00:12:43.019 --> 00:12:47.069 not just speaking with an accent, I'm hearing with an accent. 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:53.279 And we really put this belief system around accent on speakers alone, but we 00:12:53.309 --> 00:12:59.999 don't listen without a bias that is shaped by our own language and accent experience. 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:02.039 And this affects us in a number of ways. 00:13:02.354 --> 00:13:05.564 One thing is it makes it harder to understand what sounds they might be 00:13:05.564 --> 00:13:09.764 saying because we have an expectation about what they're supposed to sound like, 00:13:09.944 --> 00:13:11.925 and maybe they're not sounding that way. 00:13:11.984 --> 00:13:16.874 But two, we also have a role the brain plays in making people 00:13:16.874 --> 00:13:18.644 better or worse understood. 00:13:18.644 --> 00:13:22.604 So simply by being accustomed to hearing a certain kind of speech 00:13:22.905 --> 00:13:26.234 and having expectations going into a conversation about what 00:13:26.234 --> 00:13:27.944 we think someone will sound like. 00:13:28.214 --> 00:13:31.574 So say they look like they'll speak with an American accent. 00:13:31.779 --> 00:13:35.439 But then it turns out they start speaking with a French accent, that actually 00:13:35.439 --> 00:13:37.749 causes cognitive disruption for us. 00:13:37.749 --> 00:13:39.309 And I don't mean that in a negative way. 00:13:39.309 --> 00:13:44.529 I simply mean there's an effect on the brain of this additional processing 00:13:44.529 --> 00:13:49.059 burden that hearing something unexpected or unfamiliar places on us. 00:13:49.395 --> 00:13:53.954 So there's a bunch of different aspects in terms of why we're hearing with an accent. 00:13:54.344 --> 00:13:58.334 You know, I think the long story short of that is to recognize 00:13:58.334 --> 00:14:02.594 that part of the reason we're not understanding has nothing to do with 00:14:02.594 --> 00:14:04.244 them and everything to do with us. 00:14:04.305 --> 00:14:08.535 And there's often a power dynamic that puts whoever is dominant in 00:14:08.655 --> 00:14:12.765 that sort of social or institutional setting in a position where they 00:14:12.765 --> 00:14:16.824 feel that it's the other person's job to make sure that they're coming 00:14:16.824 --> 00:14:21.144 across clearly and intelligibly, but that's an impossible task when you 00:14:21.144 --> 00:14:22.764 are not willing to meet them halfway. 00:14:23.214 --> 00:14:29.214 So as listeners and speakers, we need to both accept our roles and our jobs and 00:14:29.214 --> 00:14:34.614 our faults in speaking and listening to contribute to getting to a place where 00:14:34.614 --> 00:14:36.144 we can better understand each other. 00:14:36.324 --> 00:14:42.234 One simple option for that as a listener is if we know to expect 00:14:42.234 --> 00:14:46.569 something unexpected that knowledge alone decreases the processing burden. 00:14:46.569 --> 00:14:50.889 So simply being more open in our expectations actually mitigates 00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:51.999 this effect on our brain. 00:14:52.209 --> 00:14:57.969 But also the more accents we hear around us, the diversity in our institutions, 00:14:57.999 --> 00:15:03.464 diversity in our friend group, the less unfamiliar accent sound to us, the 00:15:03.464 --> 00:15:05.925 better jobs our brains do more generally. 00:15:05.925 --> 00:15:07.814 So those are easy things to do. 00:15:07.844 --> 00:15:11.714 Be more friends with more people, be more open in your expectations. 00:15:11.805 --> 00:15:16.004 So I think there's really a two-sided view we can take on communication, and that's, 00:15:16.185 --> 00:15:19.185 it's a partnership, not a one-sided event. 00:15:19.905 --> 00:15:20.535 Matt Abrahams: Amen. 00:15:20.655 --> 00:15:22.439 Communication takes two, right? 00:15:22.499 --> 00:15:25.754 And we often focus on the producing of the information, but the receiving 00:15:25.754 --> 00:15:27.134 of it is critically important. 00:15:27.555 --> 00:15:32.834 The idea about processing fluency and cognitive load are really important, 00:15:32.834 --> 00:15:34.305 and it's not just with accents. 00:15:34.305 --> 00:15:37.395 It's when you're talking about technical content, you're doing the same thing. 00:15:37.395 --> 00:15:39.495 You're increasing cognitive load and processing. 00:15:39.824 --> 00:15:42.165 So some of the same advice holds true. 00:15:42.375 --> 00:15:44.295 If you're a listener, have an open mind. 00:15:44.295 --> 00:15:48.645 I like this idea of exposing yourself to diverse accents and ideas, that helps 00:15:48.645 --> 00:15:50.834 reduce the processing fluency and burden. 00:15:51.194 --> 00:15:53.324 I've often thought about speaking accents. 00:15:53.324 --> 00:15:56.234 I've never thought about listening accents, and that's a really 00:15:56.385 --> 00:15:58.635 insightful way of thinking about this. 00:15:59.699 --> 00:16:01.709 Valerie, I knew this was gonna be fantastic. 00:16:01.709 --> 00:16:05.010 You know that when we end, I always ask three questions. 00:16:05.130 --> 00:16:09.150 One I make up just for you, and two, have been consistent across all the episodes. 00:16:09.150 --> 00:16:10.620 Are you up for answering these questions? 00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:11.370 Valerie Fridland: Let do it. 00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:11.819 I love it. 00:16:11.969 --> 00:16:12.329 Yes. 00:16:12.390 --> 00:16:12.930 Matt Abrahams: Excellent. 00:16:13.050 --> 00:16:16.469 If you could give just one bit of advice to somebody who's speaking 00:16:16.469 --> 00:16:19.650 the language that's not their own and has an accent, what would that be? 00:16:20.084 --> 00:16:23.834 Valerie Fridland: The biggest advice I can tell you is that not 00:16:23.834 --> 00:16:27.644 to put so much pressure on yourself to sound like a native speaker. 00:16:27.644 --> 00:16:32.444 We have this weird ideal of what it means to learn another language, what it means 00:16:32.444 --> 00:16:36.795 to be fluent in that language, what it means to be successful in that language, 00:16:37.154 --> 00:16:42.014 and it's an unrealistic goal and it causes all sorts of problems for native 00:16:42.014 --> 00:16:44.415 speakers and non-native speakers alike. 00:16:44.819 --> 00:16:48.449 As I'm entering this new journey of a language, what my goal 00:16:48.449 --> 00:16:53.159 should be is being successful at having communicative partnerships. 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:54.989 That's really what we wanna do. 00:16:55.229 --> 00:16:58.979 It shouldn't be, I wanna sound like I don't have an accent. 00:16:59.219 --> 00:17:02.789 What we need to do is embrace accents because they're beautiful and they tell 00:17:02.789 --> 00:17:06.329 us our history, and they also tell us where we come from in our identities, and 00:17:06.329 --> 00:17:07.859 we should never wanna get rid of that. 00:17:08.189 --> 00:17:13.790 Instead, focus on what helps me be more easily understood and more 00:17:13.790 --> 00:17:17.964 confident as a speaker because that is what will make you successful. 00:17:18.264 --> 00:17:20.635 You can communicate very well with an accent. 00:17:20.814 --> 00:17:24.984 We just need to start believing that more as a speaker with a non-native variety. 00:17:25.284 --> 00:17:27.115 Matt Abrahams: So it's really about mindset. 00:17:27.234 --> 00:17:30.834 It's realize that you can be a very effective communicator even 00:17:30.834 --> 00:17:32.965 though you're speaking a language that's not your own and you might 00:17:32.965 --> 00:17:34.524 have an accent for those listening. 00:17:34.855 --> 00:17:36.745 The goal is not to sound like a native speaker. 00:17:36.745 --> 00:17:39.625 The goal is to be successful in the communication and 00:17:39.625 --> 00:17:41.215 that focus shift can help. 00:17:41.635 --> 00:17:44.545 The advice I always give people is when you introduce yourself, 00:17:44.755 --> 00:17:46.435 don't start with your name. 00:17:46.435 --> 00:17:51.085 As you alluded to, we're very good at digesting accents, but when something 00:17:51.085 --> 00:17:54.800 important is said right at the beginning our brain is still adjusting to, 00:17:54.800 --> 00:17:56.570 oh, that's how that person sounds. 00:17:56.570 --> 00:18:00.259 So I often encourage people who have accents to start by saying something 00:18:00.259 --> 00:18:01.580 else first before their name. 00:18:01.580 --> 00:18:04.040 Maybe I'm really excited to be here, or I'm somebody who's very 00:18:04.040 --> 00:18:08.659 passionate about this, and then say your name so that people have started 00:18:08.659 --> 00:18:10.399 to adjust and adapt to your accent. 00:18:10.399 --> 00:18:13.759 So hopefully those two bits of advice can help people. 00:18:14.239 --> 00:18:18.350 Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why? 00:18:18.669 --> 00:18:21.999 Valerie Fridland: I would say that one person I really admire as a communicator 00:18:21.999 --> 00:18:26.080 in the same sort of space as me, the science communication, is Adam Grant. 00:18:26.350 --> 00:18:32.439 He does a remarkable job of communicating really technical research-based 00:18:32.439 --> 00:18:37.209 information in a way that's both relevant and very accessible to 00:18:37.209 --> 00:18:39.695 everyday speakers, and so I enjoy that. 00:18:40.550 --> 00:18:44.090 Matt Abrahams: Question number three, what are the first three ingredients that go 00:18:44.090 --> 00:18:46.790 into a successful communication recipe? 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:49.070 Valerie Fridland: I don't think it's gonna surprise you that I start with 00:18:49.070 --> 00:18:53.389 listening because we talked so much about that, and I think we often just worry 00:18:53.389 --> 00:18:56.840 when we go into a conversation about speaking, what we really should worry 00:18:56.840 --> 00:18:59.240 about is listening, for so many reasons. 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.480 One is, that makes us better as a communicator, right? 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:04.325 Because we're genuinely paying attention. 00:19:05.054 --> 00:19:09.075 It helps shape how we respond and a lot of times when we spend too much time 00:19:09.105 --> 00:19:12.735 worrying, and I think non-native speakers sometimes do this, about what we're 00:19:12.735 --> 00:19:17.925 going to say, we actually miss really important nuanced points where we can make 00:19:17.925 --> 00:19:20.175 connections because of what they said. 00:19:20.504 --> 00:19:23.655 The other is self-awareness, and this is different than 00:19:23.655 --> 00:19:25.455 worrying about how I'm sounding. 00:19:25.455 --> 00:19:29.354 This is about understanding that my own background brings me to every 00:19:29.354 --> 00:19:32.594 conversation with preconceived notions of how things should go 00:19:32.594 --> 00:19:33.975 and what people should sound like. 00:19:34.245 --> 00:19:38.294 And as we talked about, this influences the way that we process things. 00:19:38.294 --> 00:19:43.004 So just being aware of that really can reshape our interactions with people. 00:19:43.334 --> 00:19:45.314 And then the third is smile. 00:19:45.344 --> 00:19:47.024 Be friendly, be open. 00:19:47.084 --> 00:19:51.195 I think sometimes we're so set on presenting ourselves a certain 00:19:51.195 --> 00:19:56.750 way or being a certain way in a context, professionally particularly, 00:19:56.990 --> 00:20:00.919 where we forget that just being friendly and kind and open can 00:20:00.919 --> 00:20:02.840 actually open a lot of doors for us. 00:20:02.840 --> 00:20:08.030 It can be the best nurturing sort of piece of the puzzle for a good 00:20:08.030 --> 00:20:11.510 conversation, is when someone feels like you really wanna genuinely have a 00:20:11.510 --> 00:20:15.470 good conversation with them, that you're happy to be there talking with them. 00:20:15.530 --> 00:20:18.649 I think that makes them more interested in conversing with you as well. 00:20:19.004 --> 00:20:20.385 Matt Abrahams: That last part is so important. 00:20:20.385 --> 00:20:23.625 It's really about connection and regardless of if you have 00:20:23.625 --> 00:20:25.635 an accent or not, you connect. 00:20:25.635 --> 00:20:27.284 I like your point on listening as well. 00:20:27.794 --> 00:20:32.534 Thank you for connecting with us and for sharing your insights on the value 00:20:32.534 --> 00:20:35.985 and importance of accents and really reflecting on ways that if we have an 00:20:35.985 --> 00:20:39.795 accent that we can address it, as well as those of us who are communicating 00:20:39.795 --> 00:20:41.085 with people who have accents. 00:20:41.355 --> 00:20:43.514 As always, Valerie, I learned so much from you. 00:20:43.514 --> 00:20:46.815 I appreciate your energy, your insights, and your time today. 00:20:46.815 --> 00:20:47.295 Thank you. 00:20:47.655 --> 00:20:49.274 Valerie Fridland: Always a good conversation with you, Matt. 00:20:49.274 --> 00:20:49.815 Thanks. 00:20:51.524 --> 00:20:53.325 Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for another episode of 00:20:53.325 --> 00:20:55.335 Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:20:55.514 --> 00:20:58.545 To learn more from Valerie, please listen to episode 91. 00:20:58.995 --> 00:21:03.345 This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abraham. 00:21:03.735 --> 00:21:05.325 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:21:05.355 --> 00:21:08.055 With special thanks to the Podium Podcast Company. 00:21:08.385 --> 00:21:09.885 Please be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:21:11.189 --> 00:21:14.249 Find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. 00:21:14.489 --> 00:21:19.399 Also, follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram, and check out fastersmarter.io 00:21:20.009 --> 00:21:23.789 for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. 00:21:24.179 --> 00:21:27.120 Please consider joining our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:28.069 at fastersmarter.io/learning. 00:21:29.850 --> 00:21:33.509 You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, my AI 00:21:33.509 --> 00:21:35.940 coach, and book club opportunities. 00:21:36.120 --> 00:21:41.220 Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning to become part of our Think Fast 00:21:41.310 --> 00:21:43.130 Talk Smart Learning Community.