WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.000 I 00:00:07.380 --> 00:00:10.780 Now understand how much that hurts because I'm normally not wearing headphones 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:14.720 The audience is now deaf 00:00:16.459 --> 00:00:19.379 Everyone is awake. I will finally fix that for next week 00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:26.860 What's up, everybody? What's up? What's up? It's better by Bitcoin the whole dog gangs here plus jam Bush rights 00:00:27.860 --> 00:00:29.860 We're talking about Hollywood 00:00:30.860 --> 00:00:38.459 Talking about the movie business if you've watched previously, you know that all of us here are involved in the movie business, especially Jordan Bush 00:00:40.259 --> 00:00:43.580 Prophetic career he's out. He's gone 00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:56.299 Jordan where you driving right now? I'm driving 00:00:56.860 --> 00:01:01.160 In an undisclosed location because we don't dox ourselves. That's right 00:01:02.980 --> 00:01:04.980 Sure looks like 00:01:05.339 --> 00:01:09.379 It's like North America someone get some good AI on this stat 00:01:09.379 --> 00:01:13.839 Yeah, somebody get that that dude who can you know diagnosed if if you show him a leaf, you know 00:01:13.839 --> 00:01:18.720 He knows right where you are. He carries his keys in his rectum. So just get him and pull him out 00:01:19.699 --> 00:01:26.279 Anyway, we're gonna be talking do we do it? You want to an intro again JD like usual JD introduce yourself. Yeah 00:01:26.860 --> 00:01:30.459 JD Bitcoin ad guy. I love Megan ads. What about you bond or? 00:01:32.339 --> 00:01:34.940 Bond or guilty plea. I've been around Bitcoin for a bit 00:01:34.940 --> 00:01:40.220 I've had a career trying Mike really trying to just nail this thing this little this little intro piece 00:01:40.220 --> 00:01:44.699 So here's what I got working on working on so far. I've had a career in 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:47.820 Finance 00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:49.220 entertainment 00:01:49.220 --> 00:01:50.779 education 00:01:50.779 --> 00:01:52.779 and the last one is 00:01:52.820 --> 00:01:54.820 Engineering and I've seen how 00:01:55.260 --> 00:02:00.940 Fiat can ruins all of it and I'm burned a lot of bridges to get here, but I'm 00:02:01.459 --> 00:02:05.580 Set on Bitcoin redeeming at all. So that's 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:16.660 Anton sign my ex bio just says film in Bitcoin. That's enough 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:20.300 Bush 00:02:20.339 --> 00:02:22.020 Can you guys see me 00:02:22.020 --> 00:02:23.179 Yeah 00:02:23.179 --> 00:02:30.500 Okay, just tell me I'm backstage. It's tell me the backstage. Anyhow, so yeah, so I am the executive director of TGFB media 00:02:30.500 --> 00:02:34.179 We help Christians understand and use Bitcoin for the glory of God the good of people everywhere 00:02:34.179 --> 00:02:39.300 I was a missionary pastor and now I help people understand Bitcoin full-time 00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:42.779 Joe that's the way you do a bio 00:02:43.380 --> 00:02:47.660 Perfect. Yeah, I need to work on mine Pike rock and roll 00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:51.419 I'm Corey Pike and co-founder of indie hub studio and 00:02:52.619 --> 00:02:54.619 Hollywood film film and television producer 00:02:55.940 --> 00:02:58.660 Dope, I'm Zach founder of indie hub studio 00:02:59.660 --> 00:03:02.179 worked in film and TV pretty much my whole career and 00:03:03.220 --> 00:03:09.380 Here we are. So today's topic. We're gonna talk a little bit about AI and filmmaking. I just went to 00:03:10.100 --> 00:03:11.699 the 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:13.699 International AI Film Festival 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:16.580 over this last weekend and 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:19.339 I 00:03:19.339 --> 00:03:21.339 Don't know man. Lots of report. I went in 00:03:23.179 --> 00:03:27.779 Kind of nervous, you know, like this is either gonna be the most cringe thing 00:03:27.779 --> 00:03:32.220 I've ever been a part of or I'm gonna lose my job tomorrow. It's sort of one or the other 00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:35.059 and 00:03:35.059 --> 00:03:40.979 To be honest, it was a little bit of both. It wasn't really it wasn't really cringe, but I was shocked 00:03:40.979 --> 00:03:43.100 I was honestly shocked at how 00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:48.160 How far along this tech has come? I've just sort of avoided the topic 00:03:49.339 --> 00:03:51.300 just out of 00:03:51.300 --> 00:03:57.699 General a it takes a lot of time to like dive into this stuff. But but be it's it's it's a little bit scary 00:03:57.699 --> 00:03:59.899 I mean AI has been really effective in a lot of other ways 00:03:59.899 --> 00:04:05.460 I've been using it myself quite a bit for various activities and I have to say that you know 00:04:05.460 --> 00:04:07.339 I you know kind of coming out of it 00:04:07.339 --> 00:04:11.020 I do think that we're on the we're on the precipice of a new medium 00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:16.940 And it is moving faster than than anybody could really imagine I think 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:21.059 Yeah, I don't know Anton you got any questions you can lead me around 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:26.459 Yeah, it seems like we're in an exponential growth phase of AI 00:04:28.140 --> 00:04:31.660 Yeah, I mean tell us about the festival you went to were there 00:04:32.299 --> 00:04:34.299 Was it people who have made? 00:04:34.899 --> 00:04:36.859 short films who are 00:04:36.859 --> 00:04:41.980 like showing the films just like a normal film festival, or was it more of a 00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:48.859 Like a expo type of thing. Yeah, so I'm traditional film festival. They kind of did three short blocks 00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:52.940 over at the Los Feliz Theater across from Fred 62 and 00:04:54.059 --> 00:04:57.459 The the vibe I got I only did the third block so I wasn't there the whole day 00:04:57.459 --> 00:05:01.019 I did an hour and then I listened to one of the panels they did and 00:05:01.579 --> 00:05:06.059 What it seemed like to me is really you had a bunch of filmmakers in there kind of traditional filmmakers 00:05:07.100 --> 00:05:11.920 They had they had the zoom going so they had people from all over the world and some of the filmmakers zooming in 00:05:12.700 --> 00:05:15.459 You know this one woman from Korea 00:05:16.179 --> 00:05:20.059 She's a teaches film in Korea, so you know filmmaker 00:05:21.260 --> 00:05:22.459 professor 00:05:22.459 --> 00:05:27.540 You had people from USC in in our industry kind of teaching film working on AI 00:05:28.779 --> 00:05:33.579 You know people who run production companies out here have been in traditional docs narratives people who work at studios 00:05:34.579 --> 00:05:40.700 Some other people who are just massive AI enthusiasts, but honestly mostly filmmakers mostly people who are somewhat familiar with the business I 00:05:42.700 --> 00:05:49.579 You know I've been noticing that in the film world just like and so many things it's kind of easier to ask for 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:56.220 Forgiveness than permission, and I think a lot of studios and a lot of filmmakers have treated AI this way 00:05:56.220 --> 00:06:01.380 I mean take that you had the Roadrunner the Anthony Bourdain movie. I watched that whole movie 00:06:01.380 --> 00:06:06.700 I knew that they had used his voice at some point and done like an AI I forgot about it completely 00:06:06.700 --> 00:06:09.739 I watched the whole movie, and I was like wait a second there was AI 00:06:10.299 --> 00:06:12.940 Voice over and it might have been the whole movie. I don't even know 00:06:13.619 --> 00:06:19.420 And then Peter Jackson did that World War one movie where he took little 00:06:19.940 --> 00:06:22.980 square like eight millimeter film and 00:06:23.859 --> 00:06:26.059 Made it into widescreen widescreen 00:06:26.579 --> 00:06:28.140 35 millimeter 00:06:28.140 --> 00:06:35.059 4k then he did the one with the Beatles where they didn't even know what the guys were saying they went and recreated their voices 00:06:36.179 --> 00:06:43.100 And and made it 4k so you could actually hear what they were saying in their voices, and there wasn't even audio of it 00:06:43.540 --> 00:06:45.859 I just saw that Netflix is 00:06:46.579 --> 00:06:48.779 They took an 80s sitcom 00:06:48.779 --> 00:06:52.019 And they upscaled it to 1080 and it's supposedly 00:06:52.220 --> 00:06:57.459 Horrifying because like little little girls who are in the background look like bald men and 00:06:59.299 --> 00:07:04.459 So anyway all that's just to say that AI is being used no matter 00:07:04.859 --> 00:07:08.420 What you're hearing because you're hearing a lot of people say that oh 00:07:08.859 --> 00:07:15.459 We're not gonna allow it in Hollywood because it'll kill the film industry and like no no it's been being used for years 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:20.500 Yeah, so what are some of the ways that you see things going in the short term well? 00:07:20.619 --> 00:07:27.059 I mean, it's it's interesting. It's like any new tech right you you had you know a lot of the discussions and panels 00:07:27.059 --> 00:07:32.619 We were talking about regulation talking about unions the last contract negotiations Warner Brothers 00:07:32.899 --> 00:07:37.700 You know supposedly was like oh, we're not gonna use AI and you know the unions kind of won that argument 00:07:37.700 --> 00:07:42.299 But like of course they are they're gonna go create another division or whatever that wasn't in the contract and do whatever the fuck 00:07:42.299 --> 00:07:44.299 They were doing anyway 00:07:45.579 --> 00:07:47.820 I'll say this and then I'll get more specific 00:07:47.820 --> 00:07:51.700 I've said this to you guys in different context, but I I think that you know 00:07:52.380 --> 00:07:55.859 We as a as a species we entered the information age 00:07:55.859 --> 00:08:03.619 and I think very rapidly a byproduct of us entering the information age is that the actual age we're in is the age of discernment and 00:08:04.339 --> 00:08:09.579 Being able to discern the truth out of a massive amount of noise 00:08:10.299 --> 00:08:17.660 And possibly fake you know fake visuals and fake information and lies is going to be the defining factor of our time 00:08:17.820 --> 00:08:19.820 Because this stuff is incredibly difficult 00:08:20.820 --> 00:08:26.059 Especially if you're looking at you know looking at it on a two-dimensional screen, or you're looking at you know information coming from a screen 00:08:26.420 --> 00:08:29.380 To discern what the truth is it's remarkable and moving quickly 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:32.099 I would say 00:08:34.299 --> 00:08:36.299 You know in 2008 00:08:37.020 --> 00:08:42.419 The industry went through a similar transition you had politics technology and economics sort of collapse it and 00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:48.099 A whole new businesses were born. I mean YouTube stars weren't a thing 20 years ago 00:08:49.179 --> 00:08:51.979 and they're a thing today and I 00:08:52.619 --> 00:08:57.099 Think that we're going to see an entirely new category of filmmaker come out 00:08:57.099 --> 00:09:01.059 I saw some remarkable stuff done over a matter of weeks 00:09:02.820 --> 00:09:04.820 You know I 00:09:06.099 --> 00:09:08.099 Will say though that 00:09:08.340 --> 00:09:15.580 The tools themselves are I'm convinced of this are we're going to remain tools and that the artist is 00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:18.260 Going to be the most important part 00:09:19.619 --> 00:09:26.500 You're using these tools to tell stories you're using these tools to convey something that is uniquely human and 00:09:27.099 --> 00:09:31.219 Human beings will connect to things that are uniquely human and they won't to things that that aren't 00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:37.260 So I think that creativity raw creativity is 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:40.340 Going to be more valuable than ever 00:09:42.260 --> 00:09:43.619 You know one way to look at it 00:09:43.619 --> 00:09:47.460 I was having this conversation with somebody recently like you know to make a movie 00:09:47.500 --> 00:09:54.820 Let's say let's say just go back to celluloid days. Let's go back to 20 years ago 25 years ago making a movie was an incredibly 00:09:55.219 --> 00:09:57.219 expensive technical 00:09:58.380 --> 00:10:03.020 You know drawn out process and a lot of people made their living 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:07.780 By being willing to do the technical shit that really creative people weren't willing to do 00:10:08.099 --> 00:10:12.580 Like I'm gonna go learn how to mix sound I'm gonna go learn how to do color on a da Vinci 00:10:12.580 --> 00:10:19.419 I'm gonna learn how to do this hyper technical thing that a director. You know which is really God on a movie set or should be 00:10:20.700 --> 00:10:25.260 Wasn't really interested in doing and so this these massive industries were built 00:10:26.460 --> 00:10:31.700 Doing all of this technical stuff that creative people didn't really want to do to tell a story. I would say that 00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:38.219 Almost all of that at least as far as if you're saying you're gonna go make an AI movie like that's out 00:10:38.739 --> 00:10:46.500 You know there's still room to be technical and you but but more importantly than other than anything is can you be? 00:10:46.780 --> 00:10:52.820 Specific and can you tell a good story? Do you know how the structure of story works? 00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:54.940 You know can you? 00:10:55.179 --> 00:10:59.780 Can you build tension and can you release it in the right ways and at the right moment at the right beat? 00:10:59.780 --> 00:11:04.820 Do you have characters that people can relate to do you have a story? That's relevant to human beings, so? 00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:08.179 I think a bunch of technical people 00:11:08.780 --> 00:11:13.659 are gonna be out and I think a bunch of other people that would have never been able to get into the industry because of 00:11:13.659 --> 00:11:15.299 the spiderweb of 00:11:15.299 --> 00:11:16.500 technicians 00:11:16.500 --> 00:11:19.659 Are going to be able to tell stories that would have never been told before 00:11:20.979 --> 00:11:23.580 You know and that's really just from the creative side. I mean 00:11:24.299 --> 00:11:26.940 from the like social media we can go make a 00:11:27.900 --> 00:11:31.500 Visual that looks like things that are actually happening. You know like for example 00:11:33.140 --> 00:11:37.619 One of the one of the things that always gets people with Trump is a 00:11:38.140 --> 00:11:40.140 Lot of the leftists are like I got it 00:11:40.140 --> 00:11:41.099 You know he said that he 00:11:41.099 --> 00:11:44.419 Nazis are great people and I'm they told it he told everybody to drink bleach 00:11:44.419 --> 00:11:49.380 And I'm like he literally fucking did not pull up a video that said that shows him telling people to drink bleach 00:11:49.380 --> 00:11:52.059 And they can't do it because it doesn't fucking exist 00:11:52.700 --> 00:11:54.700 but with this tech 00:11:55.059 --> 00:12:03.059 Zero question that those videos will start to exist and we're gonna start to get really fucking confused from a news media perspective 00:12:04.099 --> 00:12:08.940 But I do think we got to delineate you know storytelling and filmmaking from the other stuff 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.900 But the the thing that's confusing in the middle 00:12:11.900 --> 00:12:16.020 There is like the documentary side of things like one of the guys who won most of the awards really cool 00:12:16.020 --> 00:12:18.020 Dude talk to him all night 00:12:19.020 --> 00:12:22.340 He he did his film was called Lincoln at Gettysburg 00:12:22.340 --> 00:12:26.940 And he basically did the Gettysburg address with Lincoln giving the speech and of course it's all AI generated 00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:28.940 and he had all this b-roll of the war and 00:12:29.500 --> 00:12:31.140 combat and 00:12:31.140 --> 00:12:35.900 You know just really really well done stuff, and it conveys a message 00:12:35.900 --> 00:12:40.059 And and it has a point, but we're gonna get to a point where you're like fuck, man 00:12:40.059 --> 00:12:45.500 I got was that Lincoln at Gettysburg. You know a kid growing up in you know 25 or 30 years from now 00:12:45.619 --> 00:12:50.500 You're not gonna know what an old photo the real photo was versus what you're seeing on a screen 00:12:51.340 --> 00:12:53.020 Yeah, wow 00:12:53.020 --> 00:13:00.380 Yeah from the storytelling perspective. I'm curious if anybody has a really negative take on where they think that 00:13:01.260 --> 00:13:06.940 Filmmaking and like the film industry and storytelling is going in the near future if you have a negative take 00:13:07.900 --> 00:13:09.900 hyper-negative I 00:13:10.900 --> 00:13:12.900 I would be curious to 00:13:13.659 --> 00:13:17.580 Just piggyback on the the last comment that Zack made and it's it's I 00:13:18.140 --> 00:13:20.979 Don't necessarily know filmmaking is a be we're gonna have the problem 00:13:20.979 --> 00:13:27.140 I think the problem we're gonna have is media and by that I mean like mass psychosis like this is essentially MK ultra in 00:13:28.539 --> 00:13:31.260 real time and it's a 00:13:32.659 --> 00:13:35.039 You know I think one of the things that we're seeing with 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:41.179 And when you know all the stuff coming out about the JFK files potentially and like Epstein stuff, yeah 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:48.280 What's gonna be really interesting is what's actually real like the wild part to think about with like the Epstein stuff that hasn't come out 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.960 Are they making stuff up to plant on people like we're in this world now where? 00:13:54.640 --> 00:13:56.479 verifiability of 00:13:56.479 --> 00:13:58.479 core or rather 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:00.039 first 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:05.919 Research I'm blanking on what is it the the actual witnesses like of actual valid sources of like the source material 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.919 That's what I'm looking for like source material 00:14:08.719 --> 00:14:10.719 verifiability is so 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.400 Challenging with digital stuff, that's why you know the Dead Sea Scrolls are so 00:14:16.479 --> 00:14:19.880 Important as a text for history not even just Christianity 00:14:19.880 --> 00:14:25.359 But like for history is it's a thing that they found a bunch of times over and now on the internet 00:14:25.359 --> 00:14:29.460 You know if I want to make a picture of a dick, but it's immediately verifiable as a dick, but everywhere 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:34.640 But like who made the original dick, but who cares like you know, I don't know it's interesting 00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:40.559 So if they were going to take his Epstein files right now if they were just to release those files right now 00:14:41.719 --> 00:14:43.640 Would JD would you even? 00:14:43.640 --> 00:14:49.960 Believe any of them like if they release videos of Epstein there were like evidence videos. Would you believe any of them? 00:14:50.719 --> 00:14:52.599 This is the challenge is honestly 00:14:52.599 --> 00:14:57.880 I don't know like if the funny thing is to we know this tech has existed since the Obama era 00:14:58.479 --> 00:15:02.400 Because they kept saying in the 2016 election watch out for deep fakes 00:15:02.400 --> 00:15:08.440 And so this tech has been around for a long time and they've been trying to tell people don't believe your lying eyes 00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:11.799 Rightfully, but don't believe your lying eyes for a long time 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:14.479 But I do think it wasn't as good back then for sure 00:15:14.479 --> 00:15:19.239 And so I think a lot of it was that was kind of air cover for them to be able to like have 00:15:19.719 --> 00:15:24.039 Crap like shady malicious stuff come out and then for them to be like all this is fake 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:27.679 I think now it would actually be fake. And so to your point of like 00:15:29.599 --> 00:15:33.559 Yeah, five years ago I would I would have believed him now when they do come out 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:35.880 I'm gonna have questions 00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:41.299 Yeah, I mean, I think you think of something like the like the the steel dossier right where they're like 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:45.479 Oh, you know strippers and you know, like sex tape with Trump 00:15:45.640 --> 00:15:52.760 You're just like they can convincingly make like make that tape now and like just drop it on some site somewhere and people would be 00:15:52.760 --> 00:15:55.599 Like, oh, you know like it again. It just would be like the door brothers already did 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:00.840 Yeah, sure. Yeah, but I just think I mean, yeah, there's just so many 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.799 Terrifying ways that this kid this could go 00:16:04.599 --> 00:16:09.659 Like I would love to ask Corey like is this or not Corey Zack was it's kind of your take 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.880 Because I've talked to programmers who are looking at you know 00:16:12.880 --> 00:16:20.039 Chad GBT and these other tools and they're basically like they're kind of take away which is kind of my my realization was it's not going 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:21.119 To eliminate 00:16:21.119 --> 00:16:26.400 It's not going to eliminate the jobs of people who know what they're doing people who are already know what they're doing are gonna be 00:16:26.400 --> 00:16:29.479 Able to learn learn how to use these AI tools and they're gonna be way more productive 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:35.599 Like is that kind of what your takeaway is as well in the film front in addition to like the the novel stuff 00:16:35.599 --> 00:16:36.880 That's gonna happen 00:16:36.880 --> 00:16:41.039 You know the novel tools and just normal people's hands. Yeah, I I think that 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:45.960 Same thing that happened in 2008 the pile of shit at the bottom is going to get massive 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:53.640 Yeah, it's going to get absolutely huge but the cream always rises I think it'll take you know years if not a decade and a 00:16:53.640 --> 00:16:55.400 half to 00:16:55.400 --> 00:16:58.479 Kind of settle a workflow for it 00:16:59.479 --> 00:17:01.479 But I think that I think that 00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:04.199 voices and brilliant storytellers 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:10.719 Globally people that would have never in a million years had an opportunity to tell good stories will have an opportunity to tell good stories 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:13.040 and 00:17:13.040 --> 00:17:15.040 You know the big budget live-action 00:17:16.040 --> 00:17:18.560 Kind of projects. I think that those will dwindle 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:21.119 I I 00:17:21.239 --> 00:17:25.560 Think I think ultimately the market is going to expand like I people are always afraid 00:17:25.560 --> 00:17:29.319 Oh, it's just gonna take jobs. It's gonna take jobs like no, this is this is going to blow up 00:17:30.280 --> 00:17:32.719 this industry in terms of a dollar amount 00:17:33.439 --> 00:17:34.760 by 00:17:34.760 --> 00:17:36.760 multiple times 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:43.079 It's gonna take a while to settle but projects that could have never been greenlit before are going to start getting greenlit 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:50.839 So, you know, it's just you got to deal with the pile of crap at the bottom and people who are gonna get fatigued by that 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.719 You know audience members are gonna be like I was just like too much shit to watch 00:17:55.479 --> 00:17:57.800 But yeah, I don't know if that answer the question 00:17:58.439 --> 00:18:03.439 Yeah, I want to actually you to you Corey. I actually want to tap on that like as 00:18:04.239 --> 00:18:09.599 Somebody who's done development and knowing there's new access for people with these tools 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:13.079 Like how do you see the the landscape changing over the next 5-10 years? 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.520 Especially now having been in like Italy for a while. Like what's the what's the 00:18:18.239 --> 00:18:20.239 How do you see this? 00:18:20.439 --> 00:18:25.079 Revolution like bringing about like a new renaissance and filmmaking and like what does that mean? 00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:26.359 Yeah 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:28.040 I mean when I look at a film budget 00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:34.280 the things the things that are the most costly that don't show up the most on screen are a lot of the things that AI 00:18:34.479 --> 00:18:37.160 addresses like sound is insanely expensive and 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.479 AI 00:18:39.479 --> 00:18:46.000 Cleaning up of sound has gotten so much better and from my perspective on an independent film. Do I need three sound guys now? 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.439 No, I probably need one, right? 00:18:47.439 --> 00:18:47.959 You know 00:18:47.959 --> 00:18:54.760 Those are the types of things that I see VFX is like this massive thing when you when you walk into an animation project 00:18:54.760 --> 00:19:01.079 That's like 60% 70% of your budget is just just like paying animators and and computer-generated things 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:05.040 Those things are the computers are using are being used for those things anyway 00:19:05.040 --> 00:19:11.479 and the the I think you're just gonna see a massive reduction in cost in those sorts of things and those are all kind of 00:19:11.479 --> 00:19:12.319 below the 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:18.959 Below the line type things all of those things all of that tech all of that work is in support of a creator vision 00:19:18.959 --> 00:19:20.959 so from a Hollywood film perspective 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:28.599 AI is doing absolutely nothing in my opinion to remove the director and the writer as being the the center of the film medium 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:36.880 There's it's just slowly and surely and increasingly fast making it easier for them to get their vision out there 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:42.040 So Zack, I agree with you in one sense that the pile of crap at the bottom will grow 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.400 But I would say if you ask any of your people who aren't in Hollywood at all 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:50.959 How much are you actually watching right at peak television at the peak fiat? 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:53.959 nonsense of printing money and sending it into Hollywood just 00:19:54.479 --> 00:19:59.920 Inventing value out of nowhere and pretending that the industry was as a big as it was we made I think it was 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.680 700 TV shows at the peak of that that year and then there were about 00:20:05.280 --> 00:20:11.359 14,000 movies and how many did you watch right and I'm in the industry and it's my job to stay on top of all that 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:13.119 Stuff and I probably watched 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:19.359 120 movies that year and maybe 30 series right and I watch an enormous amount of stuff for my job 00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:21.119 Which means 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:27.040 99% of everything that was made I didn't watch as a professional in the industry and if that number just 00:20:27.439 --> 00:20:33.160 Grows at the bottom. It's just nonsense, right? I think about old movies and I watch a lot of old movies and 00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:36.000 watching like 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.079 Rashomon or diehard or 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:43.839 Heat or some other thing some other movies when you go back and watch them now and you say that's a little cliche 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:51.319 Some creator figured out that this is a formula that works right Rashomon invented the unreliable narrator and diehard made the modern 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:57.199 pacing for an action movie or the first one to figure that out and then since then there's been 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:02.599 Thousands of people who can't come up with that level of idea on their own 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:04.880 recreating it 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:10.119 And just like reproducing it based on a formula that someone else figured out some of those movies are fine 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:11.680 Most of them are absolute garbage 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.599 I think AI is gonna allow for that sort of recreation to happen 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:20.839 But I think it will allow the people that actually want the next thing whatever the next generation is gonna do 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:26.160 It's gonna people aren't gonna stop looking for that next thing that next creator voice 00:21:26.280 --> 00:21:33.599 So I think I see the bottom of the pyramid getting really big but it's it's just a bigger mess of cheaper nonsense 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.719 Right, like the Hallmark movie. It's just been imitating the rom-coms that worked from 30 years ago 00:21:39.199 --> 00:21:43.079 I think that's just gonna keep keep growing that mess at the bottom 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:45.079 I don't think it really does anything at all 00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:51.000 to remove the the fact that the creators that figure out the next formula that works for the next generation are 00:21:51.199 --> 00:21:54.119 Incredibly necessary and incredibly central to being 00:21:54.800 --> 00:21:59.959 Culturally responsive. Yeah, I I agree. I you know, the cream always rises 00:22:00.479 --> 00:22:02.280 and 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:06.760 Ultimately the market is doing what the market does and it's opening it up to competition 00:22:06.760 --> 00:22:07.319 You know 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:11.079 That's kind of my kind of what I was trying to say earlier like it was a very closed 00:22:11.239 --> 00:22:16.359 system because you had this highly technical spiderweb that was in the way of doing the producing and 00:22:16.719 --> 00:22:19.280 Really a lot of people who are creative got edged out 00:22:20.040 --> 00:22:24.880 And they're not gonna be edged out. They're gonna be attacking this with a vengeance and 00:22:26.199 --> 00:22:30.260 And yeah, I mean, I think there's gonna be some revolutionary stuff going on 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:34.560 You know from a story structure standpoint, there's gonna be more we're going 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.400 We're gonna be able to iterate 00:22:37.439 --> 00:22:42.319 Faster and faster and faster and we'll see what works faster and faster and faster 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:47.040 but I think you know, I can I would say for sure that 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.400 you know the Hollywood that we grew up with and 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:56.959 You know, that's it. I think it's dead. It's done. It's over. It might have a few last gasps, but 00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:01.079 Yeah, it's it's pretty remarkable what they're up to 00:23:01.719 --> 00:23:07.560 There's a really so I've been watching the Star Wars and Timeline order and 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.680 if you 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.119 Not that I recommend you do this, but I'm just like which I was just gonna do it 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:22.400 But watching a timeline order is fascinating because all of these series and TV shows like a half dozen TV shows with multiple seasons 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:26.359 came out like and then there they they 00:23:26.719 --> 00:23:33.760 Are before and after the original movies and if you watch these series you see character development you see like a 00:23:34.199 --> 00:23:37.800 whole hood like that's just character development like group like the group's 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:43.160 character gets developed and you get to see how their friends are and how they interact with their world and like all this other stuff and 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:48.280 then you watch the original three Star Wars movies and it's like 00:23:49.239 --> 00:23:52.959 what the like what is this this is like this feels like a 00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:58.560 Like almost an insult to the audience because you're like Luke goes through this thing where 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.239 I'm gonna butcher this specific example, but it's something like 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:10.760 He flies a plane one time and then he's the best pilot that anyone's ever seen and then he blows up the Death Star 00:24:10.760 --> 00:24:14.680 But I met a chlorine count is super high. We all know this but they don't even 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.359 It's not as Mel de Corrine count 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:24.199 It's not as Mel de Corrine count. It's that every single other person in the entire fleet of rebels 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.920 Recognizes that Luke is the best pilot they have 00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:35.479 After flying one time and you're just like this it's not human at all. It's just pure 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.000 1970s storytelling and 00:24:38.560 --> 00:24:41.640 The point is I'm trying to get to is that with AI? 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:48.160 You're gonna have the this crazy amount of breath to actually like dig into characters because all of that 00:24:48.760 --> 00:24:51.920 Garbage that you had to produce like oh, we you know to 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:53.959 garbage, right 00:24:53.959 --> 00:24:55.719 all of the all of the 00:24:55.719 --> 00:25:02.119 set design and everything else that you had to put together to get all these characters to to fill out all of these seasons is 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.599 Just gonna be so much easier and that goes Corey. It's the same thing with them 00:25:07.439 --> 00:25:10.560 What's the what's the big screen that everyone shoots on now? 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.160 It's like all LED wall, right like 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:15.920 Instead of doing these crazy 00:25:16.719 --> 00:25:20.199 Practical sets just do an 80 LED wall and then you're like, okay cool 00:25:20.199 --> 00:25:23.439 We got an entire world we and the person can interact with that world 00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:26.599 you know to some degree and then 00:25:27.280 --> 00:25:31.400 Okay, cool. We can flush out this this whole broader deeper thing 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:38.199 And I see that happening with AI as well and but in a different capacity, it's just it just makes it more 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.479 Accessible 00:25:40.479 --> 00:25:41.280 It to you 00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:48.599 It kind of has this interesting blend of there's gonna be like this weird middle ground where it's not animation and it's not live-action 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:51.800 I saw a few of these movies at the fest that like 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.479 Really really blended the two well, and some of them went like full animation style 00:25:56.479 --> 00:26:00.359 They had their own visual, you know, totally their specific, you know book 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:05.560 Other ones tried to be hyper real, but you're still gonna have this 00:26:05.560 --> 00:26:07.560 Fuck you 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:14.199 Yeah, I it's it's definitely going to blend a lot of genres and it'll be interesting to see like what 00:26:14.719 --> 00:26:21.199 What what genres come out of AI and what ones are the most specific what ones are the best? 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.239 What is AI the best genre as a tool for if that makes sense? 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:27.839 Anton I'm curious your take on 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:33.439 Like I would argue Breaking Bad is the best series ever made and people can fight me on that one 00:26:33.439 --> 00:26:37.880 But I really think they did a phenomenal job 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:42.280 But the main reason is the best job that it was on the page like 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:45.959 Vince Gilligan was was interviewed over and over again 00:26:45.959 --> 00:26:51.520 He would say like the goal was to paint ourselves in a way that would make us feel like we were in the right place 00:26:52.040 --> 00:26:58.760 Vince Gilligan was was interviewed over and over again. He would say like the goal was to paint ourselves into a corner and 00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:04.680 I'm just really curious your take on do you think we're gonna get to a place where? 00:27:06.040 --> 00:27:11.560 It's gonna be harder to do that because of AI because like people are not paying themselves in a box 00:27:11.560 --> 00:27:17.479 Like it is is story going to suffer or is it gonna get is it gonna change because I feel like the way we understand 00:27:17.479 --> 00:27:18.640 stories 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.920 Not gonna change like that's just a human thing 00:27:21.520 --> 00:27:29.520 Yeah, you know Cory was saying how he basically was saying that all art is derivative and essentially somebody makes this 00:27:29.520 --> 00:27:33.839 This first thing that's kind of new and then it's accessible. And so a lot of people 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:39.280 Copy it and you know, like a year ago two years ago. I heard people saying oh, hey 00:27:39.280 --> 00:27:41.280 I'll never make things as good as a human being 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.760 It seems more like we basically were being AI 00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:53.760 We were just doing it really really slowly and we were just copying and copying and copying and making worse copies of the thing that 00:27:53.760 --> 00:28:00.359 Every once in a while something new would come out and you know, we're talking about these different ways that AI can be used right now 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.800 AI can make really great animation 00:28:03.800 --> 00:28:10.560 It's already great for that or it can it can fill in little gaps and things but then we're talking about volume stages 00:28:11.040 --> 00:28:13.319 There's ways that you could just film somebody 00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:19.000 Without a volume stage and AI can add the lighting to their face can change the background 00:28:19.719 --> 00:28:20.839 or 00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:21.880 like 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:29.040 Personally, I'm doing a project right now where I needed a mountain lion in the background like walking through it through the trees 00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:31.119 so kind of far in the background I 00:28:31.560 --> 00:28:36.719 Can film a real shot have the mountain lion put into the background 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:40.479 No one will be able to tell if this was a year ago 00:28:40.479 --> 00:28:46.680 I would have had to pay some VFX house to make a 3d rendering of a mountain lion or 00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:52.959 to do some sort of rotoscoping and take a shot of a mountain lion from like a nature documentary and place it in the 00:28:52.959 --> 00:28:58.520 Trees and I can know just you just get a practical mountain lion. Why would you not just use a practical real mountain lion? 00:28:58.520 --> 00:29:03.880 What's the problem right here? You wanna hear a funny story about that real quick. There's that guy. His name's Wolfgang Bayer 00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:08.640 He was a he was a nature documentarian back in like the 60s and 70s 00:29:09.040 --> 00:29:11.359 They used to fake all the nature documentaries 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.400 So they would they would pretend that Death Valley was the Serengeti 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:18.199 And so they wanted to get this shot of a mountain lion 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:23.780 Like who was like starving to death and was drinking but the mountain lion was kind of fat and out of shape 00:29:23.780 --> 00:29:26.959 It was just what they had available to him. So they drove him out to Death Valley 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:32.920 They completely dehydrated the mountain lion and then they like made a puddle and they released the mountain lion 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:35.560 So it would go and drink and they're like, he doesn't really works kind of fat 00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:40.839 But whatever people buy it right as they did this a family pulls up in a station wagon 00:29:41.239 --> 00:29:47.479 jumps out of the car and is like whoa a mountain lion the mountain lion turns looks at one of the kids and 00:29:48.040 --> 00:29:52.479 Instinct takes over and the mountain lion attacks one of the kids and mauls them didn't kill him 00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.880 But I want to say it was Disney too who did it? 00:29:55.880 --> 00:30:00.160 So this kid got like two million dollars in the lawsuit from the nature documentary 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:02.760 I'm gonna we don't get sued but yes 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:05.760 We will confirm that it was Disney if not, we're sorry 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:13.160 I'm pretty sure the book is called a wildlife by Wolfgang Bayer. It's really good, but we don't have to do stuff like that anymore 00:30:15.719 --> 00:30:18.640 One thing put pose this question to the group 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:26.560 One of the things that I was thinking about in the film fest was that becomes really apparent 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.160 And kind of to what you guys are saying is like all of this shit was fake anyway 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:39.040 You know, there's the definition the best definition of acting I ever heard is that you're behaving truthfully under imaginary circumstances and 00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:45.239 The thing that was magical about movies back in the day is there was this magician like quality 00:30:45.520 --> 00:30:48.479 To trick us into believing that a thing was happening 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:54.400 Like, you know in Jurassic Park came out. It was like, holy fucking shit. This is real 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.400 And one of the things that just 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:03.239 Has been a an abject failure as far as I'm concerned with with CGI is 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.880 They're not even really trying to trick us 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:14.400 They're like the magician craft has sort of gone and they just everybody accepts odds computer-generated and we just make it the most cool outlandish 00:31:14.959 --> 00:31:18.000 Explosion we can imagine but there's real magic in 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:23.400 Looking at something and and being like, holy fucking shit. How did they do that? And 00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:26.079 One of the probably like 00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:33.800 The lead the most disappointing thing about the AI thing maybe the most negative take to your previous question Anton is like 00:31:35.439 --> 00:31:36.880 That 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:38.400 Mystery is gone 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:44.920 and that was such a huge part of the movie watching experience when things were live-action and they were able to 00:31:45.479 --> 00:31:51.479 Put something on a camera that you like pre CGI that you knew had to be real to some extent 00:31:51.520 --> 00:31:55.959 To some extent but you also know it's it's an illusion of some kind 00:31:55.959 --> 00:31:58.439 I mean, this is what the original silent movies were really great out 00:31:58.439 --> 00:32:05.119 They were able to do these camera tricks and do really cool shit to make something look real that wasn't and I I think that that 00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.839 might be permanently gone in the age of AI which I 00:32:10.719 --> 00:32:15.640 Don't totally agree that I don't totally agree that it's totally gone because there's enough examples of it working 00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:17.640 I think it's just very in our face 00:32:17.959 --> 00:32:22.560 How much the big studios could not care less about that anymore 00:32:23.199 --> 00:32:26.520 Right an example of something that works. What do you mean? 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.959 So Godzilla minus one opened against the Marvels 00:32:31.280 --> 00:32:37.319 Godzilla minus one cost 15 million dollars the Marvels cost 300 million dollars and they made about the same amount of money 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.760 Which is insane and Godzilla minus one is a thoughtful 00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:48.079 Post World War two Japanese drama about a guy living with survivors guilt as a kamikaze pilot who bailed on his duty 00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:52.319 And doesn't think he should be alive anymore and the villain of that movie happens to be Godzilla 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:58.119 It's just artful filmmaking that works so well and it's CGI to the absolute 00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:04.599 Maximum or another example is like the Batman the Robert Pattinson one. Most people don't know 00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:08.560 I would imagine even people on this call that 95% of that movie was shot on an LED wall 00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:14.920 And if you look at that movie versus like one of the more recent Star Wars shows where Disney clearly does not care at 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:21.439 All whether you believe all of their sets are in the shape of an ellipsis. That's insane 00:33:21.439 --> 00:33:23.439 It's like it's so obvious 00:33:23.439 --> 00:33:26.880 You just you you built an LED wall and now you have to use it 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:31.959 but Matt Reeves does it with the Batman and all of a sudden you're transported to a gothic world where 00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:38.119 You're like actually like Christopher Nolan was like maybe maybe Gotham's like Chicago and a little bit of Pittsburgh 00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:42.439 And that reason is like what if the entire city was a gothic Cathedral, right? 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:48.939 He's there. There are still people taking the tech and trying to trick you in a way. That's actually like meaningful and artistic 00:33:49.239 --> 00:33:51.839 I think it's just in the big budget movies 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:58.359 Not only do they not care but the quality has gone significantly down like gladiator 2 vs. Gladiator 1 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:03.079 Right Zack. We could go we could do a whole podcast on this. Don't get me started 00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:08.679 I know the water tank. I've shot in the water tank in Malta that they used where they shot 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:13.120 I know the people that shot it and they still CGI the water 00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:15.760 That's insanity 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:20.520 Why did you do that? You shot in a water tank and then you use CGI to make water 00:34:20.600 --> 00:34:23.719 It's it's terrible and it's just terrible work 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:27.040 So I think part of what you're reacting to is what I react to as well 00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:32.639 Which is you have 250 million dollars to make a movie and you just did a bad job, you know 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:34.639 It's just bad 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:39.239 Agreed on that entirely. I I I think specifically though just like 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:46.399 The ability to not know how they did a thing on a screen to be like how in the fuck did they do that? 00:34:46.399 --> 00:34:51.639 I think that's I think that's kind of gone because now we just go out somehow they tricked us with computers 00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:54.320 they they did something crazy with computers, but back in the day it was like 00:34:55.040 --> 00:34:57.439 How in the fuck is that even possible? What? 00:34:58.439 --> 00:35:02.520 Jordan do you think they actually kind of just popped up a question for me? 00:35:02.520 --> 00:35:06.399 but do you think it's going to be harder for people to 00:35:08.560 --> 00:35:15.679 Believe the Bible like believe the stories of the Old Testament believe the miracles believe these things and the world of AI like are we 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:18.199 gonna have a crisis of faith for our kids where it's like 00:35:18.879 --> 00:35:20.879 They're just like oh, that's just made up 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:25.600 Maybe believable. Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna say the exact same thing 00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:29.520 Maybe maybe more believable. I I don't know. I mean, it's a good question 00:35:29.520 --> 00:35:31.800 I think there's the thing that's been interesting to me 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:38.560 I'm I'm like optimistic is this gonna open up more avenues for people who again wouldn't be able to find funding 00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.520 To do this in Hollywood. Is it gonna open up? 00:35:41.520 --> 00:35:46.199 You know open up that capacity to a whole new, you know a whole new group of people 00:35:46.879 --> 00:35:52.199 And so again one example of this is there's they released a couple weeks ago or last week or something 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:54.199 It's called the life of David. I think 00:35:55.040 --> 00:35:57.360 Something like the house of David the house of David on 00:35:57.959 --> 00:36:03.879 Prime video and so it's like this series that's like live-action mixed with some, you know 00:36:03.879 --> 00:36:06.760 CGI stuff and it's really scripturally based 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:11.600 And so again, I don't know what the process was. You can definitely tell there's some CGI in there 00:36:11.600 --> 00:36:16.879 It's not totally believable, but it's not awful. And then the actual scripting is fantastic 00:36:16.879 --> 00:36:23.399 And so I'm like more optimistic that again, there's just there's a whole bunch of just really good really 00:36:23.959 --> 00:36:28.080 Complex stories in the scripture that I just it's for the life of me 00:36:28.080 --> 00:36:31.760 I don't understand why people haven't been haven't been making it and I think again 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:35.899 This would be more of the thing would be like the concern I have would be okay 00:36:35.899 --> 00:36:39.800 Now you've got you've got gazillions of people who live out in Hollywood who you know 00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:44.179 Everybody's got a script from what I understand, you know, you've got tons of people who've got these scripts everyone left 00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.239 What'd you say? 00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:49.320 Everyone left 00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:56.520 But like I just think like is this gonna is this gonna expand like you're gonna have like the the note the people who are 00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.120 tangentially 00:36:58.120 --> 00:37:05.399 Connected to people in the film industry is there's like they're gonna be more of those people who get their projects greenlit with smaller budgets 00:37:05.399 --> 00:37:08.000 And so again, you get this mountain of crap at the bottom 00:37:08.199 --> 00:37:14.399 Like that'd be more of the concern because like again, one of the problems is just like it's not the technical problem 00:37:14.399 --> 00:37:18.280 It's something like Emilia Perez like that movie, which I haven't seen it 00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.800 But from all accounts is absolute dog crap 00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:27.479 like it's like insane horrible movie and yet and like there's people who were like astounded that it got selected for Best Picture and yet 00:37:27.479 --> 00:37:29.000 It's still got 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:35.840 Selected so like it's it's one thing to actually be able to do like mechanically do the work and show create these films 00:37:35.879 --> 00:37:37.879 It's another thing to 00:37:37.879 --> 00:37:39.199 To just be like, all right 00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:45.679 There's there's like the the taste involved of the audience is something that's a moving target 00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:51.800 And that's something that like you can have people actually learn to embrace in like garbage stuff 00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:55.120 And so that's part of the be part of the concern, too 00:37:55.120 --> 00:37:55.919 It's like no 00:37:55.919 --> 00:38:01.600 It's like we go to the grocery store and almost all the food is just atrocious and yet people are still buying it 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:06.879 People are still eating it. And so that that's a concern as well that that I you know 00:38:06.879 --> 00:38:09.219 I'm somewhat optimistic that it you know 00:38:09.479 --> 00:38:15.360 By virtue of being able to create better content and by people by virtue of people who who are smart and who are you know? 00:38:15.439 --> 00:38:20.639 Moral and ethical and and also have really good ideas. Like I'm hopeful that they're gonna be able to get their 00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:25.239 Content made and then it won't be so much of an issue or at least they'll be more to contrast 00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:32.520 How bad just ethically and and just aesthetically some of the stuff that's being lauded out there right now is I don't know if that makes 00:38:32.520 --> 00:38:38.679 Oh, so uh Zack you've you've touched on this point a lot, which is we're entering the age of discernment 00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:40.959 which is to say 00:38:40.959 --> 00:38:44.840 It's all gonna be AI but what's gonna matter is is like 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:49.520 oh, I have to actually think about because you're gonna see you're gonna see Trump like 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:56.360 doing something that is just absolutely insane and then you're gonna see another like the 00:38:56.879 --> 00:39:03.300 The footage of of during of the exact same time like the exact same angle like the exact same thing happening 00:39:03.560 --> 00:39:06.600 Totally, it's a totally different thing. We've already seen some of this too 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.360 But you're gonna have to decide as a viewer 00:39:10.040 --> 00:39:14.399 What do I believe and what am I gonna believe how do I discern the truth here? 00:39:14.399 --> 00:39:17.199 And I think that to go back to your question JD 00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:22.760 I think that that is a training process that everyone's like you do not have the option to not think anymore 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:27.919 You can't just turn on the TV and turn your mind off and be like, yeah, I trust the news anchor. Definitely 00:39:27.919 --> 00:39:35.300 No, no, you have to now think and what that's gonna do is it's gonna force people into this pattern of like if I don't 00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:39.020 Think I'm gonna get burned. I'm gonna get scammed. I'm gonna get like 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:43.560 My relationships are going to be destroyed like it's a whole thing and then that you know 00:39:44.080 --> 00:39:45.959 jumps back into 00:39:45.959 --> 00:39:49.760 What do I okay. So what do I think about God? What do I think about the Bible? 00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:51.760 how like I need to actually like really 00:39:52.500 --> 00:39:56.080 go through the steps and the processes of thinking through this as 00:39:56.679 --> 00:40:00.360 Best as I can and then also learning the tools about how to think better 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:06.959 Go through going through logic and rhetoric and understanding, you know fallacies and the whole the whole 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.360 Argumentative process of 00:40:09.520 --> 00:40:14.399 Convincing yourself or persuading yourself or other people. It's gonna be it's gonna be interesting 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:17.719 Do you think a lot of people care to think though? 00:40:18.600 --> 00:40:24.020 This is what I was gonna talk about JD. I I like your terms that I call it the trust economy 00:40:24.020 --> 00:40:26.520 Which is basically what we had before 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.600 Mass media what you know came about right? 00:40:30.600 --> 00:40:34.879 It which was you only really can trust the people that you see face to face and that you know 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:39.360 The people that have earned your trust and I think that's what we'll return to you 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.719 I think it's gonna be a brutal adjustment period because we've had a very long run of 00:40:44.879 --> 00:40:46.360 And all of us, you know 00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:52.719 If we're honest with ourselves at some point have seen a news story that fits something that we wanted to be true and just believed 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:53.879 it before 00:40:53.879 --> 00:41:00.600 Right, like we can all probably point to hundreds of those right where we go back and like that didn't turn out to be totally 00:41:00.600 --> 00:41:06.520 What I thought it was but I definitely wanted that to be true. So I believed it right on its face and 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.239 You know, I think I think this this group of guys is very committed to truth 00:41:11.520 --> 00:41:16.000 So we're you know, we're probably on that bleeding edge of like, all right 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:18.399 I just don't want to be a deceived whatever the answer is 00:41:18.399 --> 00:41:20.239 I'd rather know the answer and 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:20.820 You know 00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:26.280 I think I think what you're getting at Bonder and Zach you as well is like if you as much as you don't live in 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:29.199 Reality you will get burned by not living in reality 00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:33.479 Like there's no other option like if you believe that sugar doesn't make you fat 00:41:33.479 --> 00:41:36.280 You're welcome to believe that but you will get fat, right? 00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:36.919 You know 00:41:36.919 --> 00:41:43.500 It's that that's that sort of like like like bringing up of reality as much as you want to believe the deception 00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:49.399 That's being offered to you. You're welcome to do that. You're just gonna get met by the brick wall of reality, right? 00:41:49.399 --> 00:41:53.080 and we have a second I have a more inappropriate way of saying that as well, but 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:55.800 probably not 00:41:56.479 --> 00:41:57.560 I think 00:41:57.560 --> 00:42:03.320 Go ahead. No, I was gonna say like the other thing that's the instant the instant feedback of like mockery 00:42:03.600 --> 00:42:08.399 You know like that's I think like the fact that you and if you say something stupid on the internet 00:42:08.399 --> 00:42:10.479 You can immediately get your you know 00:42:10.479 --> 00:42:13.679 Get ratioed within 30 seconds by some anon account 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:19.439 But you can be you can be the president of the United States and get immediately ratioed and there's nothing you can do about it 00:42:19.439 --> 00:42:22.219 I think like that's a that is a healthy corrective. I agree 00:42:22.540 --> 00:42:27.739 It's interesting that you think about the like Bitcoin ramifications of that of like 00:42:28.620 --> 00:42:30.620 you know zaps and 00:42:31.620 --> 00:42:34.179 Bondo and I have talked about this but the the 00:42:35.860 --> 00:42:39.379 Like Nostra is an interesting protocol because it's essentially 00:42:39.979 --> 00:42:44.459 Creating a new social security number, but like a social security number. That's your nsec for 00:42:45.139 --> 00:42:49.120 Trust where it's like hey, you have this identifier now that you can take with you 00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:52.800 You know, I know fatty allows you to take you different places, you know Nostra you have yours 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:59.179 You can use it on zap dot stream. Like there's a lot of different of those protocols, but it's interesting the thought you had of like 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:06.239 The punishment layer I guess on top of that of like it can be instantaneous where it's like hey 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:12.520 I said something factually incorrect and you could actually have tech that's monitoring things. It's like hey, this is the truth 00:43:12.520 --> 00:43:15.879 You're getting into then arbitration of like who's the arbiter of truth? 00:43:15.879 --> 00:43:21.679 What is actually true that stuff but there can be like instant ramifications outside of mockery where it's like, hey, I had a 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:30.120 Instantaneous zap of my wallet got docked, you know, 20 sats or whatever was because I said something that was not correct 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:35.080 And I was intentionally trying to mislead people. I don't know. It's interesting. This is a thought. Yeah 00:43:35.879 --> 00:43:39.520 Good, you know, we're talking about how you can fake things in media 00:43:39.520 --> 00:43:40.639 You can you know 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:45.959 you had that meeting with Trump and Zelensky and a lot of people created these ones where they all of a sudden got into a 00:43:45.959 --> 00:43:48.439 Fistfight or like throwing each other. That wasn't the real ones 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.280 So it's hard to believe that was real 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:58.760 It's hard to discern the real thing from the thing that AI created and and within storytelling in Hollywood 00:43:58.959 --> 00:44:00.959 That is gonna happen with 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:08.199 Some dude in Bangladesh is going to make a movie that people are not going to be able to tell is not a Marvel movie 00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:12.320 It'll be indistinguishable from what Hollywood is is putting out which is kind of exciting 00:44:12.439 --> 00:44:15.399 It's also nice that we have this thing that unites us 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:20.679 Bitcoin where you actually can verify that something is real and has taken place and 00:44:20.959 --> 00:44:27.760 And so in the in the world of imagery and storytelling, how do you verify anything anymore? 00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:31.719 So there's some beauty to that because yeah, there's gonna be a lot of trash at the bottom 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:37.800 But there's gonna be people who were held out of Hollywood. There was no way in their entire lifetime 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.000 They could ever break into the industry and now they're just if they're good enough 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.679 They're just gonna be able to do it from anywhere in the world 00:44:45.439 --> 00:44:49.679 What's what's kind of interesting is you think about what storytelling is? 00:44:51.239 --> 00:44:53.080 It's 00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:56.080 It's this, you know, let's go back like more traditional filmmaking 00:44:56.080 --> 00:45:02.060 It's it's a bunch of people who are basically getting together and they're they're they're basically making up a lie 00:45:02.659 --> 00:45:08.260 But the lies all serve a much bigger truth the the movies that we all agree were fantastic 00:45:09.620 --> 00:45:15.300 Were in service of something much larger. That was true. So it was like this organized lie in order to 00:45:16.580 --> 00:45:18.580 Express a superlative truth 00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:24.340 Which I think is still is still totally viable in the AI world 00:45:25.219 --> 00:45:27.219 But it begs the question of like 00:45:27.219 --> 00:45:33.899 What what is it about those stories, you know, it's like the phrase like that rings true 00:45:33.899 --> 00:45:37.979 Like when you hear a truth, you don't you don't need a bunch of fucking explanation behind it 00:45:37.979 --> 00:45:41.580 It permeates through your body and you go. Ah, that's right 00:45:41.580 --> 00:45:45.020 And you don't you don't need like a whole thesis on why it's right 00:45:45.020 --> 00:45:47.260 Usually if you need a thesis on why something is, right? 00:45:48.820 --> 00:45:55.219 You're you're wrong you're doing mental gymnastics to justify something that's obviously clearly not wrong on the inside 00:45:55.219 --> 00:46:01.699 So, you know, it's it's like it's like the same game is being played where you you know, the lie, you know 00:46:01.699 --> 00:46:03.500 Well I gets all the way around the world, you know 00:46:03.500 --> 00:46:08.379 It gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on the truth is always behind the lie 00:46:08.899 --> 00:46:17.459 But like a glacier it just demolishes those lies over time and those those lies go by the wayside and the truth continues to 00:46:17.459 --> 00:46:19.459 propagate and permeate 00:46:19.459 --> 00:46:24.860 I don't really have a point there. I don't know. I don't know. I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't know 00:46:24.860 --> 00:46:30.419 I don't really have a point more just of an observation of like what a story what storytelling really is kind of an interesting little 00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:32.139 You know 00:46:32.139 --> 00:46:35.060 Well, yeah, that's why I think that's the positive. Yeah, go ahead on 00:46:35.060 --> 00:46:40.100 I was gonna say that's why Hollywood's failing is because it's not because AI has 00:46:40.340 --> 00:46:46.260 Opened the floodgates of filmmakers if because they started telling crappy stories. They started making bad movies 00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:53.780 They were making their own sea of garbage. And so the truth is the movie is the movies are bad 00:46:54.379 --> 00:47:01.419 Yeah, because they're not getting it they're not attempting to get in any kind of deeper truth, they're they're literally just fucking propaganda well, yeah 00:47:01.820 --> 00:47:07.040 They think it's a deeper truth, but it's it's not it's just like some BS support like 00:47:07.580 --> 00:47:10.100 Yeah, it's it's self-serving like that 00:47:10.100 --> 00:47:13.580 They're telling self-serving stories rather than audience serving stories 00:47:13.780 --> 00:47:18.419 Because like there's there's so many of these things where the odd like there is no demand for the stories that they're telling 00:47:18.419 --> 00:47:22.060 Yeah, like there is no demand like nobody wants to hear a lot of these stories 00:47:22.060 --> 00:47:26.419 Nobody wants to you know, like it that's just the reality. That's why if you don't get good ratings 00:47:26.419 --> 00:47:28.739 It's largely because you're not telling a compelling story 00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:33.659 there's obviously there could be other things but like one of the one of the things is like if you're not telling compelling stories that 00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:39.739 Actually relate to the real people and so I think this is the thing is like when these guys are getting so much money 00:47:40.419 --> 00:47:46.939 like when the when the checks are so big that you can afford to make a vanity project that is literally just in service of 00:47:46.939 --> 00:47:54.459 You or your your boutique ideology that you know that that's true of you and 20 people and you know in California or something like that 00:47:54.459 --> 00:47:57.899 Like you just it's the the incentives are misaligned 00:47:57.899 --> 00:48:01.100 And so this is where I'd be hopeful that as you move to scarce money 00:48:01.340 --> 00:48:04.139 Like you you move to like people where this is real 00:48:04.300 --> 00:48:05.699 decisions that have to be made 00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:12.020 People are not gonna be as willing to just cut the check for something that just is in service of a director and 50 people 00:48:12.139 --> 00:48:14.139 Hollywood like they're gonna they're gonna be more 00:48:14.300 --> 00:48:16.020 incentivized to try to make things 00:48:16.020 --> 00:48:22.580 Because their money won't be able to be made as easily by getting cheap loans or whatever if you return to like a real cost 00:48:22.580 --> 00:48:26.219 Of capital like I'm more optimistic that you're gonna start to get 00:48:26.899 --> 00:48:32.060 You know stuff produced content produced. I know you guys don't like that word, but like films produced that 00:48:32.580 --> 00:48:35.179 that that are actually in service of people and 00:48:35.979 --> 00:48:38.820 society as a result instead of just again a small group of 00:48:39.699 --> 00:48:44.780 You know people who have weird views on the world, but shameless plug shameless plug for Indy hub there 00:48:44.780 --> 00:48:47.020 I mean like a to your point gonna say that 00:48:47.899 --> 00:48:51.300 You you know you like to your point Jordan about getting ratioed on Twitter 00:48:51.459 --> 00:48:53.459 You know that used to be called the box office 00:48:53.459 --> 00:49:00.060 and if the fucking receipts weren't there you didn't have a fucking career like they voted you out immediately and 00:49:00.820 --> 00:49:05.459 the audience did exactly the audience did exactly and when we use a 00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:10.820 When you we get back to you know the idea of streaming value per second watched 00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:14.179 And people are actually voting with real money 00:49:17.500 --> 00:49:21.820 All of those incentives get realigned I mean right now the money is coming from publicly traded companies 00:49:21.899 --> 00:49:23.899 Those are a few people that have agendas 00:49:23.899 --> 00:49:28.820 But when the audience gets to start to vote again with with actual value you're gonna see 00:49:29.219 --> 00:49:34.300 You're gonna see society reward the stories and the truths to your point like if you say something that's not true 00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:37.379 You're gonna get ratioed if you tell a story, that's bad. You're not gonna get paid 00:49:38.179 --> 00:49:40.620 So if we can realign those incentives correctly 00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:46.020 The cream the cream will rise to the top. I mean it's no question 00:49:46.699 --> 00:49:51.139 Reputation I'm really important in the film world. Yeah agreed Jordan 00:49:51.139 --> 00:49:57.100 I made this point on your podcast a while back, but but but basically that money printing era in Hollywood 00:49:57.219 --> 00:50:03.719 Now what we now see is this massive contraction. It's been going about on about 18 months, but that money printing in Hollywood 00:50:04.300 --> 00:50:07.379 Flowed all this free money that was literally just printed 00:50:07.379 --> 00:50:13.219 You know there was there was no extra consumer demand and we went from a film industry that was about 2x consumer demand to a 00:50:13.219 --> 00:50:16.500 film industry that was about 6 or 7x consumer demand and then 00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:22.179 The interest rates rose and the free money train stopped and there's this massive contraction 00:50:22.179 --> 00:50:24.179 And there's all this hand wringing in 00:50:24.419 --> 00:50:30.860 Hollywood and and people blaming people like David Zaslav for cutting things at Warner Brothers and that sort of thing this massive 00:50:31.020 --> 00:50:35.820 Contraction back down to what the actual demand was and if you look at theatrical revenues 00:50:36.020 --> 00:50:43.139 They haven't actually moved very much. They've gone down by like three four percent a year, which is a very minor contraction, right? 00:50:43.179 --> 00:50:45.179 but the this 00:50:45.179 --> 00:50:50.219 devastation of Hollywood is literally just going from 6x revenue to 2x revenue and 00:50:50.540 --> 00:50:52.340 It was never there right there 00:50:52.340 --> 00:50:57.219 It was a shell game the entire time and just returning back to to that 00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:03.260 I'm optimistic for that right even as it's it's pretty devastating for you know for my industry 00:51:03.780 --> 00:51:05.379 I'm optimistic that 00:51:05.379 --> 00:51:11.899 Resettling around reality is the only way that it moves forward in any form like there was never gonna continue while we were completely in 00:51:12.260 --> 00:51:16.379 Fantasyland about what the consumer demand actually was yeah, yeah 00:51:17.419 --> 00:51:19.419 Do you guys think? 00:51:19.739 --> 00:51:21.739 the share so I 00:51:22.580 --> 00:51:28.699 Think it's interesting AI kind of feels like a new like a modern-day Babel where we're getting to this like 00:51:29.739 --> 00:51:35.739 Originally everybody could speak the same language and then Babel happened and then everybody was kind of bifurcated in their own little pockets 00:51:35.939 --> 00:51:39.479 Like tribalism again, and I feel like it's gonna be interesting 00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:45.060 You're gonna have those pockets that can now it's like if you want to make an anime movie about 00:51:45.500 --> 00:51:47.500 The 00:51:47.580 --> 00:51:54.620 Alphabet stuff or whatever it is like you can do that and you can make one that's like hyper focused on like what being 00:51:55.219 --> 00:51:58.979 Pansexual is or whatever and I'm just like picking something. That's so specific 00:51:58.979 --> 00:52:04.659 But you can do that and if you want to try to tell a good story about it your market that that's that really small 00:52:04.659 --> 00:52:07.939 Fringe market will be able to tell you instantaneously you like it or it's like hey 00:52:07.939 --> 00:52:10.699 I'm an aviator and I want to make something about like really 00:52:11.419 --> 00:52:12.939 unique 00:52:12.939 --> 00:52:14.540 intricate systems about this 00:52:14.540 --> 00:52:21.060 Tim's about the difference between fly-by-wire and old like OG like flying with like actual hydraulics 00:52:21.060 --> 00:52:26.179 like you can go in and you can try and like make these nuanced pieces of content YouTube is a little bit of that but 00:52:26.179 --> 00:52:28.699 I think what we're in for is actually a 00:52:31.459 --> 00:52:37.840 Like a flippening to use the the F term you guys use Solana, right but like a flippening of 00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:40.379 storytelling to where 00:52:40.379 --> 00:52:44.540 We'll actually get a new mainstream if that makes sense, like we're gonna get a new 00:52:45.620 --> 00:52:50.179 Way for people to all be on the same thing. I hope it's Indy hub, but it's gonna be a a 00:52:51.860 --> 00:52:56.699 New way for us to talk about what's kind of coming out or what's that shared experience of the entire world? 00:52:57.540 --> 00:53:01.139 And I'm curious to see what it's gonna be because it's gonna be it's gonna be interesting. I 00:53:03.459 --> 00:53:07.360 Do agree I think that's a good analogy like we are definitely bifurcating 00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:12.760 No question and the question is how long are we gonna bifurcate and then where is the party gonna be at? 00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:18.120 After we all decide that bifurcation wasn't the greatest thing ever part is gonna be the big corners 00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:26.120 Yeah, no doubt these studios and the platforms they have legally they own a lot of these films 00:53:26.120 --> 00:53:33.040 So they own like the Miramax library. They own certain titles and so companies like Netflix Amazon Hulu 00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:35.639 HBO Disney, whatever 00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:40.199 They're gonna have older films if you want to go and stream those movies 00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:44.159 If you don't want to just steal them or whatever, you're gonna go to those platforms. They're gonna use those things 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.399 There are going to be people that continue to use those platforms 00:53:47.399 --> 00:53:49.399 Some of them may fail some of them may succeed 00:53:49.600 --> 00:53:56.479 But there there is and this is already happening gonna be a whole new round of filmmakers who can 00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:04.439 Either use Bitcoin to finance movies use AI tools make them much cheaper and put them on their own 00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:09.399 Platforms people will go to places like indie hub where they can spend the little amount of Bitcoin 00:54:09.520 --> 00:54:16.739 They know this filmmaker is not going to put what if it's the leftist crap that's getting ham-fisted into storylines 00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:22.600 I'm not gonna get any of that. I'm gonna get this certain type of movie. This person's got a new one coming out 00:54:22.600 --> 00:54:24.120 I'm going to pay 00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:30.000 Like a thousand sats and I'm gonna sit down and watch this movie and it's gonna be exactly what I want to see 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:32.439 And it's going to I don't know 00:54:32.439 --> 00:54:34.439 I mean, maybe it's gonna be the new mainstream 00:54:34.479 --> 00:54:41.159 but it's definitely gonna be a lot of really good filmmaking that you can go and pay a little bit of money for and 00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:43.540 Get a really good product for and it is going to 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:52.360 Decimate this old structure that's existed for however long it's existed for in its current iteration of Hollywood 00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:57.719 that is dying and a new thing is is rising up and and Bitcoin is gonna 00:54:58.000 --> 00:55:03.080 Definitely help that because people are gonna pay in Bitcoin to watch the story. You guys answer an uncouth question 00:55:03.080 --> 00:55:05.520 That's totally off topic, but actually kind of relevant 00:55:06.080 --> 00:55:08.080 Do you guys think? 00:55:08.560 --> 00:55:12.320 slavery comes back and I actually mean that in a in a 00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:15.320 Here here 00:55:20.879 --> 00:55:26.919 Everyone in the world the slave right now, but yeah, but that's it's been alive in 71, dude. So that's actually 00:55:31.639 --> 00:55:38.919 But but but you know seriousness like I'm very curious because I'm going through the Old Testament right now and it talks about 00:55:39.520 --> 00:55:41.520 Like as Moses is handing over 00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:47.639 You know the the the new promised land to the Israelites he's basically like hey 00:55:48.199 --> 00:55:52.459 You're gonna put up these new stone tablets that are kind of big and they're gonna write all this stuff on them 00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:58.239 But one of the like big sections in there is basically about like slaves. It's like hey if you're a slave 00:55:58.879 --> 00:56:04.239 You can get out of your slavery at this point in time, but if you don't want to not be a slave anymore 00:56:04.959 --> 00:56:08.959 Then your master is responsible for you. And so where I'm going with this is like 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:11.360 Are we gonna get to like a new 00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:17.320 serfdom or seat like like are we gonna get to a different alignment of things because we're taught with all of the 00:56:18.120 --> 00:56:21.239 Myths right that that Hollywood perpetuates slavery is bad 00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:25.280 but at the end of the day when you really think about it like if all you want to do is scroll on tik-tok and 00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:31.439 Find somebody you can go bang on tinder. You're already a slave. It's like I don't know. I'm just curious 00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:34.199 No 00:56:34.439 --> 00:56:39.360 Okay, I'll go first because your follow-up will be more important like I've talked to all you guys about this I think 00:56:40.479 --> 00:56:43.399 Individually, but I have this like spicy take about AI 00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:48.199 Kind of being the rapture a little bit because there's a bunch of people 00:56:48.439 --> 00:56:49.959 Who are who are not? 00:56:49.959 --> 00:56:56.639 They're not gonna be able to discern the truth and their responsibility of following the truth and being productive within the truth and moving 00:56:57.080 --> 00:57:01.239 Humanity forward moving consciousness forward by being servants of the truth 00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:03.679 You know 00:57:03.679 --> 00:57:07.919 They're just gonna be thrown back in the fucking washing machine until they figure it out in the next 00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:11.959 6,000 years or whatever when their soul comes back and they got to figure out who the fucking boss is 00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:16.360 Like you have to decide that you're a servant of the truth that you're a warrior of God 00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:22.959 However, you want to say it and if you're just gonna get totally overcome and overtaken by technology AI 00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:28.479 Tinder whatever it is. You're just a slave to dopamine to JD's point 00:57:28.479 --> 00:57:34.959 so I think that this technology back to you know to the point of being the age of discernment all of this technology is 00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:42.280 Forcing us to to ask ourselves who are actual who is the boss and what are we doing? What is the truth? 00:57:42.959 --> 00:57:48.840 Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the camera we've read so on the shout to the thank God for Nostra podcast 00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:51.959 I go go subscribe, but we we talked about this a lot 00:57:51.959 --> 00:57:53.959 we talked about like AI and 00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:57.199 And like VR and stuff and I Kimber who we were talking about 00:57:57.199 --> 00:58:02.159 But basically his his contention it was some well-known billionaire. It might have been Eli 00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:03.879 I don't I don't remember it might have been Zuckerberg 00:58:03.879 --> 00:58:09.760 But basically his contention was he was it was this pretty cynical take of there's gonna be hyper wealthy people 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:13.840 who are gonna actually be able to afford to travel and to you know, 00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:20.439 Like afford life and do all these things and then there's gonna be people who are just they experience all those things virtually 00:58:20.439 --> 00:58:25.360 So you're gonna have a VR you're gonna go on like a VR vacation and you're gonna have like your VR porn 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:30.919 you're gonna have all these kind of things and so like he just had this idea this, you know, this vision of like a 00:58:31.439 --> 00:58:37.199 You know again, it's it is kind of good. It's very dystopian but of like where you have large 00:58:38.199 --> 00:58:39.439 You know 00:58:39.439 --> 00:58:43.959 Where you have large income inequality and you have this, you know, you have like assets 00:58:43.959 --> 00:58:49.199 It's extreme asset thing where again even in the best-case scenario the people who are rich today 00:58:49.479 --> 00:58:52.719 They're gonna get Bitcoin and they're gonna be able to have even more Bitcoin 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:54.719 and so just like this idea of 00:58:54.959 --> 00:59:01.040 you know like this being part of the use case for you know for AI and this part being part of the use case for 00:59:01.600 --> 00:59:09.439 For VR. Yeah, whatever it is virtual reality. Yeah, I just think like I could see it getting really really bad in a lot of ways 00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:11.520 We can keep going down that path 00:59:11.520 --> 00:59:15.360 I had I did have one more question for Zach like in terms of the in terms of the festival 00:59:15.959 --> 00:59:19.360 Like here's a question so here this would be like a more or less 00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:21.679 less 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:24.040 awful use of you know unless 00:59:24.560 --> 00:59:29.719 This would be more fun use like is that was there any talk of doing like a kind of a good choose your own 00:59:29.919 --> 00:59:32.600 Adventure story for like some of these old films 00:59:32.600 --> 00:59:36.719 So if you're looking at somebody like Miramax and they're trying to figure out how can we monetize? 00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:39.399 These existing properties that we already have 00:59:40.080 --> 00:59:43.360 Here's one example. So on the the rewatchables podcast 00:59:43.800 --> 00:59:49.679 They do this they have like all these categories that they go through and one of the stories or one of the categories is would 00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:53.320 This movie have been better if it had Tom Cruise or Tom Hanks 00:59:53.520 --> 00:59:59.439 And so I'm like could you could you see a world where you can take some of these old movies and you could literally pop? 00:59:59.439 --> 01:00:04.879 In Tom Hanks like to this movie and like experience all these like parallel universes 01:00:04.919 --> 01:00:07.560 Like is that could you see something like that happening? 01:00:07.560 --> 01:00:10.600 I get obviously I think it's it's possible to actually do it 01:00:10.600 --> 01:00:15.800 But do you think like that would make sense on the business side of things or the where the interests align in any way to 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:21.239 Kind of make that happen something like that before you answer. We did an entire podcast on this 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:28.399 Yeah, exactly and I'd like to the figure out what number it is, but 01:00:30.439 --> 01:00:32.199 What you know, I think 01:00:32.199 --> 01:00:33.719 we 01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:35.320 Yes, it's possible 01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:41.719 You know choose your own adventure has actually been a thing, you know just in theater like live theater, you know 01:00:41.719 --> 01:00:46.080 That was a format for plays for a long time kind of like 3d movies. Just never really took off 01:00:46.520 --> 01:00:48.520 I think it's possible 01:00:48.520 --> 01:00:52.080 But I think what's actually gonna happen is the choose your own adventure AI 01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:55.520 Generated stories that are the most fun are actually going to be video games 01:00:56.439 --> 01:00:58.919 Okay, we're basically already there 01:00:59.600 --> 01:01:03.800 And as AI starts to kind of program, you know 01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:11.239 Program the real like imagine Skyrim, but where all of the NPCs are our AI's and they're having organic conversations with you 01:01:11.239 --> 01:01:12.959 I think that's gonna be 01:01:12.959 --> 01:01:14.959 infinitely more stimulating than like 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:20.120 Watching the same script or story structure play out with a new face on it 01:01:20.879 --> 01:01:21.760 You know what? I mean? 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:23.120 Like it might be interesting for a little bit 01:01:23.120 --> 01:01:26.719 But I don't I don't know if there's gonna be any any big viable 01:01:26.840 --> 01:01:31.600 Return on investment for doing something like that and then sure and then you're also dealing with rights issues 01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:35.280 Yes, that's kind of more where my question was coming in like how does that work? 01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:37.919 I know people are super protective over rights and all that kind of stuff 01:01:37.919 --> 01:01:43.520 So yeah in likeness and and then so they're already gonna they're already doing that and they're already gonna continue doing that 01:01:43.520 --> 01:01:47.120 That's what's what's interesting though on this this whole thing. That is actually 01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:54.199 Blizzard used quite a bit of AI in the and I might be I think I'm like 90% correct on this 01:01:54.199 --> 01:01:56.360 I don't play video games 01:01:56.360 --> 01:02:01.000 But I saw and I was reading something about like Diablo 3 or Diablo 7 or whatever the hell it is right now 01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:03.360 in the new Diablo 4 01:02:05.479 --> 01:02:12.399 The way the dungeons are made is actually AI generated which is it's like they basically have plot points and then let's say here's the 01:02:12.399 --> 01:02:16.120 big bad guy you got to have some of these things in there, but the 01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:22.040 the theory behind it from an engineering perspective is it's like an SVG graphic if you're familiar a 01:02:22.560 --> 01:02:29.639 Png is like a an image right or a JPEG that you're not traditionally aware of which is essentially like the computer has to know 01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:36.120 okay, pixel 1 is white and then pixel 2 is blue and then pixel 3 is this an 01:02:36.600 --> 01:02:42.639 SVG is a math equation. So you get to a point where it's infinitely says stands for a scalable vector graphic 01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:45.919 infinitely big or infinitely small and so 01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:52.760 What's gonna be more interesting is actually it's essentially using geometry. Like if you guys know the like the perfect 01:02:53.560 --> 01:02:58.719 Like circle thing that goes all the way down. I'm blanking on what it is. Yeah, but it's like in geometry 01:02:58.959 --> 01:03:00.600 Yeah 01:03:00.600 --> 01:03:07.239 Obviously, yeah, but you're talking about procedurally generated. Yes, and so it's gonna be and awesome 01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:10.080 Thank you camera for freezing at this perfect moment in time 01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:14.280 but it's like the the point where I'm going with this is 01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:19.520 the choose-your-own-adventure piece to Zach's point that I totally agree with is 01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:23.040 actually going to be a misnomer because 01:03:24.040 --> 01:03:28.320 You don't actually want to choose your own adventure like if it really comes down to it 01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:32.280 What you want is you want to go on a quest and you want to know? 01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:39.080 What you're questing for but you want to be surprised on the way. Yeah. Yeah, and so the journey will change 01:03:39.639 --> 01:03:41.639 But the destination is the same 01:03:41.879 --> 01:03:47.639 Interestingly enough like if you look at it from that context JD like the choose if you want to choose your own adventure 01:03:47.639 --> 01:03:50.080 You get to go be a filmmaker and you get to make a movie using AI 01:03:50.399 --> 01:03:54.959 You now are choosing your adventure and then all the people who don't want to choose their own adventure get to like oh 01:03:54.959 --> 01:03:56.439 I'll go on that one with you 01:03:56.439 --> 01:03:56.939 Yeah 01:03:56.939 --> 01:04:01.840 But I actually think what you just said is unique and I didn't even think about that until right now and just kind of using 01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:03.840 That framework that I just set up 01:04:04.080 --> 01:04:08.479 It would be really really interesting to have diehard where every single character is Tom Hanks 01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:14.159 right or have diehard where every single character was Tom Cruise and I just mean that in the thing if it's like 01:04:14.479 --> 01:04:19.280 The beauty of this choose your own adventure of the future is not necessarily that it's choose your own story 01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:27.360 But it's gonna choose your own band of motley characters to to live out. It's basically Dungeons and Dragons, but you know 01:04:27.760 --> 01:04:33.479 With a little more defined storyline to it. I mean we already have that with memes right like the smash mouth where 01:04:34.679 --> 01:04:40.600 The song is just hey now. Hey now. Hey just goes on. Yeah, I'm just imagining again 01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:46.239 I was imagining something like again. Yeah, so it'd be like Jerry Maguire or something again 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:49.639 The incentives don't align for them to actually go back and touch something like that 01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:53.280 But if there was it'd be like if there was a project it'd be it'd have to be less loved 01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:58.239 It'd have to be some kind of project that was like more middling and they're like, hey, maybe we could you know 01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:03.120 If we changed out this actor or again, you take like this new actor. We popped him back in there 01:05:03.120 --> 01:05:05.919 You know, how would it and so like there would be some sort of intrigue? 01:05:07.520 --> 01:05:11.760 What I would personally love to see though are actually things that died because of 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:19.239 Somebody dying so for instance like yeah, I would love to see what that man three would have been if he'd ledger hadn't died 01:05:19.919 --> 01:05:22.800 Right, like that's what I would love is like I'd love to see that 01:05:24.520 --> 01:05:28.560 Yeah, I appreciate this is a thought experiment but as fast as AI is moving 01:05:28.560 --> 01:05:34.080 I don't think we're anywhere close from AI being able to replicate a good a great actor 01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:39.159 Giving a great performance that they prepared for and executed. I honestly don't think it's anywhere close 01:05:39.159 --> 01:05:43.959 I think I think it's I think it'd be fun. I think it'd be funny, especially for for more middling things 01:05:43.959 --> 01:05:49.120 But yeah, I mean if you tried to recreate with AI what Heath Ledger did in the dark night 01:05:49.120 --> 01:05:54.679 It would be so obvious that it wasn't him. Even if it looked the exact same 01:05:54.679 --> 01:05:57.360 There's I don't think we're anywhere close to that. Okay, I think 01:05:58.280 --> 01:06:00.280 Have you guys ever noticed on that? 01:06:01.479 --> 01:06:06.959 I agree 100% what you're saying Corey the the I guess the piece of where I'm saying though is the 01:06:07.600 --> 01:06:12.560 The beauty of like an LLM or the the large language models for AI is putting in 01:06:12.919 --> 01:06:17.080 Like you've put in this framework and so more of what it is. I actually I actually think 01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:24.800 It wouldn't work unless a human did it first and I guess that's where I'm going is like he's put in all of that 01:06:24.879 --> 01:06:32.679 Effort to create that Joker and so it's like what is another existence or another premonition of that Joker in that world? 01:06:33.040 --> 01:06:38.399 Based on AI now again AI is gonna make different decisions than Heathwood because he's gonna go have lunch with somebody and they're gonna give 01:06:38.399 --> 01:06:39.399 Him an idea and it's gonna like that 01:06:39.399 --> 01:06:45.239 But but I do think it's just an interesting thing, but I do think a human would need to prime it the prompt, right? 01:06:46.080 --> 01:06:50.280 What's both very cool about AI and can be horrifying? 01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:57.800 And if you've ever watched Black Mirror or read any old science fiction, that is no longer science fiction like 01:06:58.600 --> 01:07:06.639 Anything that you can imagine that AI is capable of doing it will eventually do these things all will eventually happen like 01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:12.280 Eventually you want to be the main character and die hard get in VR and it's no longer 01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:15.239 Bruce Willis you are that person and 01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:21.959 And then like think of like an Apple Vision Pro and you can take a movie and it will just expand all the scenes 01:07:21.959 --> 01:07:26.159 So now you can watch the movie, but you can also see like everything else that's going on 01:07:26.399 --> 01:07:31.280 But I will just say this I am confident from like a biblical perspective 01:07:31.919 --> 01:07:36.800 That there's nothing new under the Sun even though all there's all these advancements 01:07:37.120 --> 01:07:42.080 we're still just human beings and we like a certain type of storytelling and 01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:48.040 Everything that has that is going to come all already in some 01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:52.560 Version has existed in the past before that technology existed 01:07:52.560 --> 01:07:59.399 And so in the future, we still will like a very similar type of storytelling and I I mean, this is my personal opinion 01:07:59.399 --> 01:08:07.239 I think what we consider to be Hollywood is cyclical and it's all going to come back in in in a new form with new 01:08:07.360 --> 01:08:09.360 technology, but still the same 01:08:09.639 --> 01:08:11.159 so 01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:12.560 We can 01:08:12.560 --> 01:08:14.560 This is kind of a question for the group 01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:19.799 But how many of you have heard of the philosophical idea of a view from nowhere? 01:08:20.799 --> 01:08:27.560 Nope and note-takers. Okay. So the idea of that a view from nowhere it refers to this idea of we all have a perspective 01:08:28.200 --> 01:08:32.279 Right. So like Anton's perspective is going to be different than my perspective 01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:38.040 You know, we see some of the same things because you know, we live in proximity to each other 01:08:38.040 --> 01:08:40.040 So we like interact at the same places 01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:49.439 But fundamentally our perspectives are completely different right despite the fact of all the things we have in common North America, for instance 01:08:49.799 --> 01:08:51.799 It's a huge thing in common now 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:57.200 everybody has their own perspective and then those perspectives have 01:08:58.120 --> 01:09:03.140 Problems in that it's hard to arbitrate truth between perspectives that are 01:09:03.839 --> 01:09:10.080 In conflict right now if you have if you have a perspective here and you have a perspective here 01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:17.720 The guy who has the perspective way up here can see the whole map and understands that like no this has not seen this thing 01:09:17.720 --> 01:09:23.240 It's outside of this guy's field of view and vice versa, right and therefore we can reconcile the conflict, right? 01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:28.120 it's like that that that that picture of like a you've got like a 01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:34.839 Cylinder and a light shining in two different angles and on the shadow of this looks like a square and the shadow over here 01:09:34.839 --> 01:09:41.479 Correct. Yeah, like whatever. Yeah, this is true. This is true. And then the overarching is this is truth. Yes. Yep, exactly. Perfect 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:43.520 Okay, so 01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:45.520 with filmmaking with all the other 01:09:45.959 --> 01:09:49.040 Mediums and creative endeavors. We are telling a story 01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:56.720 From a perspective and what gives that perspective meaning is that it's our perspective and we can you know, have have interacted with this 01:09:57.359 --> 01:10:00.959 Our reality in it, you know other people have similar things 01:10:00.959 --> 01:10:07.120 And so there's a relationship there and all that now AI also has a perspective. It's not a 01:10:08.240 --> 01:10:14.040 Different like it's not a different perspective each time. It's like just the you know a universal perspective and it's not God's perspective either 01:10:14.160 --> 01:10:16.160 Because God would be the ultimate perspective, right? 01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:22.439 But AI only has the one perspective you have to train another AI model to get another perspective 01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:25.319 whereas a filmmaker will have 01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:32.000 his own unique perspective and a different filmmaker will have his own unique perspective and there's 01:10:32.439 --> 01:10:38.959 Thousands and thousands of filmmakers all gonna have their own unique perspective. I think that is where it's like 01:10:40.160 --> 01:10:42.959 the economics unless and unless the 01:10:44.040 --> 01:10:48.839 unless they're able to figure out a way to make AI crazy cheap where you can just 01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:52.720 run and train your own eyes for a couple hundred bucks like 01:10:53.479 --> 01:10:54.640 it's 01:10:54.640 --> 01:10:58.439 Bro, the human experience is just expansive beyond 01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:03.640 what computers will be able to do in terms of storytelling and porn in terms of 01:11:04.799 --> 01:11:11.720 Producing content that's that's new and unique because reality is informing us of our perspectives and then we get to 01:11:12.120 --> 01:11:14.640 Respond to that and have a new 01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:17.720 story a new take 01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:24.520 yeah, one of the things that was really clear about about the films from the AI film fest was that 01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:32.839 Everything came down to writing basically and your specificity and prompting and that specificity is coming from from your own perspective to your point 01:11:33.839 --> 01:11:35.839 and 01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:40.359 There's just an infinite amount of iterations of that it's inconceivable 01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:42.720 hopefully 01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:48.319 humans continue to use AI as the tool and AI doesn't use us as the tool and 01:11:48.439 --> 01:11:52.720 Put us in little pods where it sucks the heat energy out of our bodies 01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:56.520 This sounds like a really great idea for a good movie 01:11:59.120 --> 01:12:01.120 Corn hub 01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:04.799 My second favorite movie title of all the titles 01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:11.520 Alright team, this is the yeah. Yeah think we're think we're think we're near it 01:12:12.399 --> 01:12:18.439 Wrapping it up if you're into supporting filmmakers and you want to fucking stream and value go to indie hub studio 01:12:18.520 --> 01:12:25.479 Hit me up at indie hub. We'll give you a discount code. It'll be dope. We're new. We're in beta. It's small. It's growing 01:12:26.200 --> 01:12:28.200 That's what you said 01:12:29.479 --> 01:12:31.479 This is beta this is beta 01:12:32.200 --> 01:12:34.200 I 01:12:34.680 --> 01:12:36.680 Guess cheers