Mike Caldwell: Welcome back to another episode of the Transformative Principal.
My name is Mike Caldwell.
I'm your host today, and joining me is Dr. Christie Lynn.
Turn, Christie Lynn.
So happy to have you on the show.
Kristilynn Turney: Thank you.
Glad to be here.
Mike Caldwell: Chrissy Lynn of and I have known each other now for just about a year.
Right?
Somewhere in there.
Yes.
Kristilynn Turney: Mm-hmm.
Mike Caldwell: I think I reached out, cold, cold, cold, reach out, I think on Facebook and connected with you and invited you in to be part of the this Link Leaders project that I've been working on.
And over the time, I've got to know you and you're mover and a shaker and out there doing some great things in education that we're gonna talk about.
So, uh.
So we'll get, we'll get after that.
First, why don't you share, let's just drive right, go right into it.
You talked about being labeled as a problem child.
When I, I read that, I'm like, what?
Let's, what is that about?
So, we'll, we'll come back to a little bit more of your background, but let's just open it up.
What do you mean by labeled as a problem?
Child.
I couldn't imagine you being labeled as a problem child.
Kristilynn Turney: Well, yes, I was labeled as a problem child.
And let me tell you why, because I love to talk, uh, even to this day if you don't already know that.
And so, uh, by being a talker, um, that was kind of labeled as a problem, uh, during that time that I was in.
School because I would never shut up and that would interfere with instruction with other student learning.
And that became that label, that tag for me as a problem.
And uh, I don't think in the midst of that teachers saw the opportunities that we see with talkative students these days.
But in that time, I was a problem.
Mike Caldwell: Well, and look at it serving you now talking and Oh yes.
Communicating with leaders all across the, the country.
And so it's, it's served you well to have that, I guess Absolutely.
Initiative to, to speak up.
So, um, share a little bit about your background, um, and where, where'd you grow up?
What, what, what are kind of some of your formidable experiences as a, as a leader.
And then, uh, we'll go from there.
Kristilynn Turney: Absolutely.
Thank you for asking.
I feel like I have always been a leader and I think that that goes with, uh, being talkative and in some regards, outspoken.
Um, I am born and raised Cincinnati, Ohio, huge.
Cincinnati Bengals fan.
Um, from there, uh, well, in the meantime, I graduated from North College Hill High School, went to Bowling Green State University on a track scholarship.
Uh, after that came back home to Cincinnati and.
Started teaching English and theater.
I was also a drama director.
Uh, after I left the classroom, I went into school improvement with a focus on literacy, and then I became an assistant principal, a middle school principal, a high school principal, and in district office.
And one of the things that I am most proud of in my career.
And I was the first black principal of two predominantly white suburban schools, uh, Fairfield Middle School, as well as Coal Rain High School, both in the greater Cincinnati, Ohio area.
And with that came, uh, large responsibilities, not only, uh, by being the first black principal, but also being a female principal and helping those buildings transition and shift during that time.
Um, while I was in district office, I worked in human resources, curriculum and intervention as well as diversity.
And in 2019, I said.
Let me give this full-time consulting thing a try.
And I even said, you know, if it doesn't work out by April, 2020, I can always go back.
And so of course when we say April, 2020, we all know what happened by that point.
Um, but I. I was really soaring in my work.
Um, in May, 2020, um, America witnessed the unfortunate killing of George Floyd.
Um, and that really shifted and took shape around some diversity initiatives, especially in schools.
And so that really pushed me.
In my role to continue my work around diversity plans and equity audits for schools, and I have continued, uh, that line of work in addition to, uh, leadership providing, um, coaching and consulting in the area of leadership as well as school improvement.
And I'm also a very proud speaker and I want to connect with districts, um, as well as educational entities and organizations who might love to hear my story from Problem to Principal or some of my other signature talks, which includes, uh, leading with Grace, strength, and High.
For our female leaders, whether they are educational leaders or leaders in other spaces, as well as from burnout to buy-in, shifting the culture in your school or organization.
Mike Caldwell: Awesome.
And we'll make sure we include a link in the show notes for your website and your information so people can follow up on that.
Um, you have a lot to offer, no question.
Thank you.
I wanna go, I wanna go back.
You, you know, you talked about being the first black principal of two two schools.
Can you elaborate a little bit?
What does it really mean to be the first, and what, what pressures or responsibilities did you feel that maybe others did not see?
Or, or maybe someone maybe like me that maybe does, doesn't quite understand that.
Can you elaborate a little bit?
Kristilynn Turney: Absolutely.
Um, being the first is, is a trailblazer.
You are setting that path for others, uh, as well as setting the examples.
So I knew that I could be viewed as, uh, someone who led the building in a very positive way, and that opened the door for other black principals or female principals.
Or if I led in a negative way that closed the door for others.
It also met representation not only for staff, but our students who viewed me as obviously, uh, the first, and that power behind their ability to be able to do it as well.
And that leads me to a point on another one of my signature talks.
Be the first being the first.
And uh, that is for student groups.
And I facilitated and led some of those student, uh, groups in that respect as well because the students need to hear.
And see that story and that example, um, as well.
So it, it was, uh, an empowering experience, but it also allowed me to support and empower others and leave a very strong legacy for those to follow as well as for, uh, students and staff to model.
Mike Caldwell: When you talk with, on being, being the person, it sounds like it, something you're directing to students.
What is some of the, or may, maybe it's not exclusive to students, but what's, what's some of the kind of messaging in there, what you're hoping that they will pull away or walk away from that talk?
Not to give it away.
Kristilynn Turney: Yeah.
Mike Caldwell: But
Kristilynn Turney: yes, yes, no worries.
Um, hoping that, uh, students will see and experience that it is okay to be the first.
It does come with weight.
Um, and it is, um.
For some, a, a change cycle for them.
Whether that is their first to graduates from high school or the first to go off to college or the, the first to start a business.
Um, that is a shift, uh, for many students even still today.
But hearing that message from me empowers them as well as gives them that encouragement to be able to say, yeah, it's scary, um, but this is something that I'm able to accomplish and do.
Mike Caldwell: Absolutely.
Yeah.
So.
When you walk into a building and no one in leadership looks like you, as you've, you've mentioned what's happening internally, emotionally, and strategically, what that maybe people don't talk about.
What is that like?
Kristilynn Turney: Yeah, it is very, uh, for me focused on doing the job, uh, while I recognize there is a weight on me.
I don't think others recognize that, and I know that I can't use that as a crutch or a challenge or a barrier.
I use that as an opening to say, okay, here I am.
Here's what I bring and here's what we are going to accomplish.
And so while there is power, uh, in being the first of whatever it is, we can't just stop there and limit that whole conversation to that.
While I was in my buildings, I was very fortunate to be a change maker as well as a system changer when it came to our code of conduct, uh, when it came to some of our teaming and our master scheduling.
And also, uh, that barrier breaker when, when it came to shifting the culture from what had it previously been.
Uh, which in, in a few cases, a little more punitive and not focused and, uh, lacked the guidance that it needed.
So again, my role didn't just stop there.
It continued on including taking the graduation rate, uh, from 86.4% to 92.4% in two years, which was at that time the highest average in six years.
So.
It started with, okay, yep, she's the first.
Here she is.
But I didn't limit it to that, and I wanted to make sure that I left a very strong and positive legacy once I left.
Mike Caldwell: Now this podcast transformative principle, you know, for me it's, I mean it's, it's such a great opportunity for those that are listening to, to give them kind of a really solid.
Nugget.
Something that they can, you know, regardless of their background and where they're leading, something they can walk away with and say, okay, that's, that's a new idea, or a new new thought that I'm gonna maybe apply to my leadership.
So as you think about your impact at, at the, as your time as a leader and some of the things that you just shared with the growth and, um, and achievement and, and those types of things.
Let's drill down like under the hood.
When you are leading, what do you attribute, like specifically, like what are some of the things that you did that you're most proud of, that you kind of attribute success to?
What are some very specific things that you feel are kind of like, this is, this is, you know, this, this made the impact.
Kristilynn Turney: I think what made the greatest impact is that I built relationships very quickly with staff, students, family, uh, district office, as well as community supports.
Um, I got in there and was very intentional in knowing that I needed.
Everyone around me to be on my team in order for my team to be successful.
So when it was time to implement those systems and those changes that I had a collaborative approach into doing this.
And it wasn't just, this new principal is too bold, um, and she's trying to push all these systems and changes.
It was.
Us together as a community making those decisions.
I think also in building those relationships, it opened up that level of empowerment.
So I gave teachers back that power to say, I'm going to trust you in your role as a teacher, just as I want you to trust me in my role as a principal.
So if you feel that this is what is best for students and these are the instructional shifts that you need to make to reach our building goals and the vision that I've set out, then I trust you to do it.
And I think that, uh, more than anything, the building of those relationships.
And giving off that, um, authority really helped change and move our systems for the better and also get those academic results that I spoke about.
Mike Caldwell: Sometimes as a new leader, we go in and we have, sometimes we can make a mistake by jumping in and trying to change things too fast if we, if we're not
Kristilynn Turney: Oh, yes.
Mike Caldwell: Familiar with, with the environment.
I know I had that experience when I started as, as in my first principalship and, you know, trying to move too fast and.
Not bringing everybody along Right.
But at the core of what you said, I think is absolutely true.
The, the building, the relationships and trust, the collaborative kind of efforts with your, with your staff.
I'll, I'll make a difference in terms of moving the dial.
What are some of the mistakes that you feel like you made as a early leader that you look back and say, okay, I would've done that different.
Kristilynn Turney: Absolutely.
Well, you just hit the nail on the head, like jumping in and saying, I'm gonna do this and this by tomorrow, right?
And so very quickly I said, you know what?
First of all, that wasn't the approach that felt comfortable for me.
I think that that was possibly the approach that was modeled for me as well as encouraged by, um, the superintendent and the district staff to say, you need to get in there and change all of these things.
Tomorrow.
Right.
And so that was in fact a mistake.
And as I said, that didn't feel comfortable for me.
Um, I knew how to get there, it just wasn't that way.
And so that's when I really said, you know what?
We're gonna get there.
Do me a favor, give me some time, and I'm gonna make sure that this laundry list of things gets done.
I'm just going to get it done not only in my time, but in the way that I know is comfortable for me and what I've structured my staff and my students and really my whole SCH school community around.
Mike Caldwell: How did you get from, or how did you navigate kind of maybe your ideas of, this is my vision for the school versus our collective vision and moving forward.
Like how do you, how do you do that?
Because sometimes we go in as leaders, right?
And we're like, we see where we want to go.
Um, and sometimes go again too fast or, or not take in kind of a full intake of.
Your, our environment and other opinions and things like that.
Do you have some tips or ideas on how, how to kind of navigate that so it's not just you way out in front and leaving everybody up behind and really getting that collective vision?
Kristilynn Turney: Yes.
So very strategic and intentional in your approach.
And I say that because again, every leader enters a building with a list of things that they want to change almost immediately.
But those things take time.
And one of the things that I really reflected on is somewhere along the line, these building leadership team members, these teachers thought this was approach, this approach.
Was a great idea.
So I don't wanna slap them in the face by coming in and saying, Nope, we're not doing that, that, or that.
Right?
Because these are the same individuals who built this system maybe even the year before.
So now bringing them to the table and having these conversations and saying, okay, kind of walk me through this process of how did we get here?
How did it look?
What worked well, what didn't work so well, and then taking all of those pieces as a part of my strategic plan and vision.
So even with, uh, one perfect example.
Is when I was a middle school principal, they wanted to change their team names.
They had, uh, previously American themed teams, so the teams were named Freedom and Liberty and Justice, and it was amazing.
You walked down the hall, you saw all the different, uh, American themed names, and it was really cool.
But that had been a longstanding tradition for the school and they wanted to change it.
But I also had to take a step back and say, you know, somewhere along the line someone said, this is fabulous.
This is wonderful.
And yes, now we might be ready for a change, but what does that change process look like?
How are we going to start to, uh, break down?
Okay, what.
Themes are we now going to choose from and how are we going to identify the names of the teams and how are we going to ensure that this process is strong and everyone's input is a part of it?
And that after we change these names, um, that it's sustainable, right?
Because then after I leave, then everybody's like, we hated those names.
Now we wanna go back to, you know, the American theme names.
And so all of that is a process of strategy.
And taking into account in consideration, um, what was that process that led to those decisions and who am I to come in to?
Many of these veteran teachers who were on those sitting committees to make those decisions, whether it's the team names, the code of conduct, the dress code, who am I to come in and just say.
This is all wrong.
We're throwing it all away.
We're gonna do it my way.
I'm no one in that regard.
Right?
And we know that that's not best practice in leadership.
And furthermore, we know that that's not going to be sustainable.
Mike Caldwell: Absolutely.
And some of those things are really hard to change 'cause they're so integrated, created to history and, and, uh,
Kristilynn Turney: yep.
Mike Caldwell: And, and yeah.
And tradition and those types of things.
I found, I don't know if you can relate to this, when I, I was lucky enough to start early enough in my first principalship that I was able to, um, spend some time in the spring.
Prior to actually taking over, and I had an opportunity, and I think this was a, a rare opportunity where I can go and I, I was able to go and meet with every staff member, really every teacher in the building.
I think we had 70 teachers at the time, um, and just spend 20 minutes with them and just interview them.
And I, us and I, if I remember, I asked them three questions, what's going really well?
What's the biggest challenge you see that you would like?
Addressed and, um, I can't remember the third one, but just like general questions and collected all that information.
Um, and that really helped me, you know, even if you can't do it the spring before as like spending some time in the fall in your first year, like just gathering that information from the, from the staff perspective of what's, what's going well and what's not going so well.
It's interesting to kind of collect that and then aggregate it and see what you get.
So I loved that kind of, it, part of the, the experience.
Um, did you ever do anything like that when you started as a school leader?
Kristilynn Turney: Yes, that is a part of that learning, um, and making sure that, uh, your team knows that you are a team player and that you are there for them and to support them in their effort.
So of course I spent that time saying, Hey, everybody just.
Open office hours.
I need to meet with you.
Yes.
And even if we come and talk about your family or uh, what's going on in your life, that's okay.
But I wanted to make those connections and I ultimately use not only those school connections, but those personal connections to continue to build those relationships.
So I had teachers who would share, Hey, I'm caring for an elderly parent.
And so then when there was something that happened, there was again that remembrance and that connection.
Okay.
Yep.
I remember you're caring for an elderly parent and some things might, uh, look differently because of having to deal with things at home and not being able to be here, uh, for a day or a certain event.
So that all goes, uh, as a part of it.
And that's one thing that I provide when or, uh, give as advice when I, um, provide leadership coaching, I suggest building those relationships, having them come in and just.
Talk.
Let me hear from you.
Let me connect with you, and not always with an intent of arriving at a decision of what is the bell schedule going to look like next year, or, which assemblies am I adding?
Because this teacher said that it can again just be.
We're just connecting.
We are building relationships, and I'm getting to know you a little bit better so that, again, all of those pieces fit together when it's decision making time.
Mike Caldwell: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
You know, I think sometimes you can do everything you can to build the relationships and do all the things that you think are the right moves, but inevitably you're gonna.
Run into resistance.
Right.
And that could
Kristilynn Turney: always,
Mike Caldwell: you know, that could be couple teachers or it could be, or, or staff members or, or even greater, you know, level of resistance depending on what you're, what you're trying to do.
Um, talk a little bit like how, how do leaders, you know, how, how do leaders hold firm to change while navigating resistance or know when to really kind of.
Pay attention to the resistance and possibly even change course or pivot a little bit like that.
That balance between pressing forward versus wait, we, you know, there's something here that I gotta really pay attention to.
Any guidance there.
Kristilynn Turney: Yes.
So anything that aligns to the vision, um, and that is ultimately best for students, those are the things that we have to hold firm on.
These become those non-negotiables.
So if we're talking about data-driven decisions and how we are, uh, providing.
Assessments or how we are evaluating assessments and modifying instruction based on those assessments.
To me, those very much become non-negotiables.
However.
What becomes, uh, somewhere where there's this opening or this pivot is maybe the, um, teacher-based team or the professional learning community setting isn't the best.
Maybe you want to do smaller groups.
Or one-on-one as we're reviewing data-driven decisions, maybe you want an instructional coach present, um, along with that process.
Or maybe you just want more input to say, you know, here's how the students tested, but here's what I think, here's how we arrived at that point.
I think that there is always that balance of.
Us as leaders, yes, being very firm because we know what's going to drive where we are going, but then also having that opening to say, you know what, yes, I can relax a little bit on that.
If it makes you feel comfortable or it makes you feel safe to do it this way, that's fine, because guess what?
We're still going to arrive at the same place that we were set out to go to.
Mike Caldwell: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um,
you know, there's so much of this is really, again, going back to the relationships, um, because really true transformation and some of the major shifts that you were able to make as a leader doesn't start with programs.
It starts with people, right?
And, and it starts with people feeling seen, heard, but also challenged, um, to, mm-hmm.
Grow and, and stretch in their, in their profession.
In a real practical, let's call it, what's today, A Wednesday like on a, on a, on a given random Wednesday in your school?
Kristilynn Turney: Mm-hmm.
Mike Caldwell: What does that practice look like in terms of making sure that people feel seen, heard, but also pushed and challenged?
Kristilynn Turney: Yes, from a leadership standpoint, uh, for me that's visibility and that's visibility for everyone and making those connections to everyone.
I worked very hard to know as many students' names as I could.
I also worked very hard to know all of my staff names, uh, members' names, and at least one thing about them, whether it was, you know, their, their dog name.
Quincy or whether it was, uh, some connections that we made like, Hey, I have twins.
You have twins, or your birthday is in March, just like my birthday is in March.
So making those connections to ensure that everyone is seen, um, and heard and that they are pushed and challenged.
Right.
Because I think when we take.
You are seen, you are heard.
We have these relationships.
Then when it's time for me to challenge you, you're prepared because you know that not only do I have the best interest of the students in mind, but I also have their best interest.
And we are all striving for that common goal.
And we don't need anybody who's gonna row the opposite way.
We need everybody rowing in the same direction because when I win, then we all win.
Mike Caldwell: Absolutely.
Well, as you look back in your 20 years, is it 20, 30 years in education?
How many years is it?
Kristilynn Turney: 27.
Mike Caldwell: 27 years in education.
Curious, what chapter of your leadership story are you still writing?
Kristilynn Turney: Hmm.
I think I, oh wow.
Um, as a consultant and now how am I supporting other leaders?
Especially because I know a lot more, there's a lot more resources and opportunities to connect, um, as well as instructional tools out there.
So I am very much still writing that leadership coach.
Part of it, uh, because again, just as I said before, when I win, we all win.
When they win, I win too.
And so I, I wanna still be a part of that journey in supporting and that is the thing that I'm still riding.
Mike Caldwell: I love you said that, you said win.
I'm curious, I'm gonna push you a little bit here.
Um, share an example of a recent win maybe that you had in the leadership coaching.
Maybe a specific, without naming names, of course, specific leader that you were working with.
Maybe describe the challenge that they were dealing with and how you help them navigate that.
Kristilynn Turney: Yes, this is very recent, so I love this question.
Thank you so much for asking.
So, um, recently I attended an administrative team meeting and, um, the administrative team meeting was very focused on housekeeping items, um, student dress code violations.
Um.
Teacher walkthroughs, teacher evaluation systems.
I needed that leader to really drill down to instruction.
So my question to that leader was, how does all of those things impact instruction?
Now, before you jump on me, I get it.
We gotta have rules.
There needs to be clear expectations.
The walkthroughs, the evaluations are district and state mandated.
That is clear.
But how are we specifically drilling down to the instructional outcomes?
So if we are, for instance, pulling students from class because they're in violation of the dress code, are we taking away an instruction?
Right.
Is there a better way to.
Not only address the student's infraction, but also ensure that they're not missing out on valuable class time.
Same thing with teachers.
If we are addressing them for not identifying those students who are.
Not in compliance, whether it's dress code or behavior or whatever.
Are we removing that teacher from their instructional planning time that they could again have an impact on instruction?
So I'm glad you asked that question, and to me that was a win to drive.
Home to say this is great, but how does it impact instruction?
And how can we reframe that to make sure that our focus is all instruction?
So instead of just talking about, Hey, you didn't do your three walkthroughs this week, let's talk about that target area in our walkthroughs that we wanna focus on, right?
Instead of we gotta meet these deadlines to, um, our evaluation system.
Let's talk about what the data is showing us.
How many teachers are falling in this developing area, and what can we do to build them up so that they are reaching those higher levels?
How can we support them instructionally so that they are getting there?
So again, moving from that general picture, that level of general compliance to drilling down and impact and student outcomes.
Mike Caldwell: Yeah.
Well, let's, let's leave with one practical takeaway here.
So, for principals listening who want to begin shifting, you know, whether it's culture or make a big move academically, um, but they wanna do it tomorrow, what's one concrete action they could take this week?
Kristilynn Turney: Wow.
Mike Caldwell: Con, concrete, concrete.
Kristilynn Turney: Okay, go with me one concrete action.
Set a plan.
Identify what it is that you are going to focus on and develop a plan around that.
That next step, and I know we're talking about one, but this all goes into that one, that next step is sharing it.
And getting feedback so that you get not only others' opinions, but you also get support and ultimately buy-in in that action that you plan to take to move your staff and students.
Mike Caldwell: Love it.
Good stuff.
All right, final question.
What does it mean to you to be a Transformative Principal or transformative leader?
It,
Kristilynn Turney: yes, it means that you are, um, shifty.
That you are, whatever that level of shift is, uh, whether it is shifting in the culture and the climate, um, shifting in student expectations, staff expectations, uh, instruction, and really that constant shift because it's almost like once you get one thing right, there's still a whole line of other things that are waiting for you.
So shifting, um, and being transformational.
And being intentional about your shift and your goals and in moving, and then finally making sure that you are continuing to monitor and evaluate the successes of your shifts.
Mike Caldwell: Fantastic.
Cool.
Well, we'll make sure that we include your website and your, all your links to Yeah.
For people to find you if they wanna reach out and connect.
Um, there's so much we didn't cover that you, you can offer of course.
And support leaders and, um, yeah.
And Christy Lynn, I appreciate your time and getting to, to know you over the last year or so.
And, uh, best of luck to you as you, uh, help school leaders and, and.
District leaders navigate this difficult business of, of leadership that we are in, in education.
So thank you again for your time.
Kristilynn Turney: Thank you.
Mike Caldwell: All right.
Thanks everyone for listening.
It's another episode of Transformative Principal.
We'll see you on the next one.